[00:00.000 --> 00:01.040]  ...toon A's gift.
[00:01.280 --> 00:05.280]  I'm looking forward to both meeting you and empowering you.
[00:30.120 --> 00:30.940]  Thank you.
[00:31.880 --> 00:35.580]  And you're listening to Radio Station WBAI New York.
[00:36.060 --> 00:38.540]  Time is just about 7 o'clock.
[00:38.760 --> 00:41.660]  Once again, that means it's time for Off the Hook.
[00:46.920 --> 00:51.400]  The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[00:52.380 --> 00:54.340]  I cut myself while shaving.
[00:55.140 --> 00:56.920]  Now I can't make a call.
[00:57.520 --> 00:59.720]  We couldn't get much worse.
[01:02.460 --> 01:05.140]  Bum-dilly-bump for the best, expect the worst.
[01:05.740 --> 01:07.640]  I hope that's understood.
[01:07.920 --> 01:08.720]  Bum-dilly-bump!
[02:23.300 --> 02:29.920]  And it's another action-packed edition of Off the Hook here at WBAI.
[02:30.180 --> 02:33.360]  It's a manual, joined tonight by Rob T.
[02:33.460 --> 02:33.800]  Firefly.
[02:34.060 --> 02:34.660]  Good evening.
[02:35.500 --> 02:36.980]  Kyle, hang on a second.
[02:37.200 --> 02:38.380]  Kyle, yes, say hello.
[02:38.380 --> 02:39.100]  Hi, hackers.
[02:39.100 --> 02:40.820]  You said hello on the wrong device.
[02:40.820 --> 02:42.300]  You were supposed to say hello on that device.
[02:42.520 --> 02:42.940]  Hello, hackers.
[02:43.520 --> 02:44.060]  Oh, let's see.
[02:44.160 --> 02:45.180]  Okay, do that again.
[02:49.880 --> 02:50.820]  It didn't work.
[02:51.200 --> 02:51.640]  It didn't work.
[02:52.220 --> 02:54.420]  You're not... If it's this channel, you're not coming over.
[02:55.480 --> 02:55.840]  What?
[02:56.500 --> 02:57.420]  I thought I heard you.
[02:58.140 --> 02:58.500]  Hello?
[02:59.080 --> 02:59.900]  Nope, it's not working.
[03:00.440 --> 03:02.960]  So, I'm glad Reggie's still here because he can troubleshoot this.
[03:03.120 --> 03:04.660]  We thought we had the phone hooked up.
[03:04.660 --> 03:09.000]  We want to take lots and lots of phone calls tonight to make up for the fact that we don't have a phone line.
[03:11.140 --> 03:12.640]  And let's make sure we're still connected.
[03:12.840 --> 03:13.420]  Yeah, we're still connected.
[03:13.420 --> 03:17.820]  So, if you guys can figure this out while I continue to introduce people who aren't here.
[03:18.380 --> 03:18.900]  Bernie S.
[03:19.000 --> 03:19.600]  is not with us.
[03:19.600 --> 03:20.020]  Is that right?
[03:20.180 --> 03:21.660]  He will be with us soon.
[03:22.780 --> 03:23.140]  Soon.
[03:23.320 --> 03:23.520]  Okay.
[03:23.980 --> 03:24.460]  Well, I'm glad.
[03:24.460 --> 03:27.620]  We had a prearranged time during the production of this episode.
[03:27.920 --> 03:28.280]  Okay.
[03:28.280 --> 03:28.940]  He will join us.
[03:28.940 --> 03:30.660]  Well, that's good to know.
[03:31.380 --> 03:36.360]  Yeah, it's been another fun week, I guess.
[03:36.780 --> 03:40.000]  We're in the midst of trying to get things working here.
[03:40.100 --> 03:43.140]  As you may know, this radio station has no phone.
[03:43.500 --> 03:50.280]  It's insane what we have to deal with, but we're trying to get past that by wiring it up ourselves.
[03:50.520 --> 03:53.800]  Thing is, we can't wire it up before the show because there's a show before us.
[03:54.900 --> 03:57.380]  So, I hear a beeping now.
[03:57.940 --> 03:58.420]  Yeah.
[03:58.420 --> 03:59.680]  Okay, I'm hearing the beeping.
[03:59.800 --> 04:00.720]  I'm just not hearing you, Kyle.
[04:01.340 --> 04:01.620]  Okay.
[04:01.940 --> 04:03.160]  So, maybe you're...
[04:03.160 --> 04:04.420]  Maybe you're called waiting.
[04:04.620 --> 04:06.180]  Okay, I'm going to pick you up, Reggie.
[04:07.760 --> 04:08.700]  Okay, say something.
[04:08.980 --> 04:09.880]  Okay, how about now?
[04:10.020 --> 04:10.920]  Yes, I hear you.
[04:11.020 --> 04:11.420]  I hear you.
[04:11.940 --> 04:12.260]  Okay.
[04:12.380 --> 04:13.220]  I know it works.
[04:13.500 --> 04:15.360]  Okay, well, then the test is complete.
[04:15.480 --> 04:16.180]  Thank you for your help.
[04:16.320 --> 04:16.940]  Well, success.
[04:17.640 --> 04:18.040]  All right.
[04:18.200 --> 04:23.880]  If you ever need to rig up a phone system or get a radio station, jump started, Reggie's your guy.
[04:23.880 --> 04:31.460]  And, well, Kyle, you obviously played a part in it, but the phone didn't work.
[04:31.620 --> 04:32.540]  Your phone didn't work.
[04:34.540 --> 04:39.620]  Anyway, so we're going to hopefully get things working more smoothly.
[04:40.760 --> 04:41.880]  I am just...
[04:41.880 --> 04:52.820]  I am still impressed, in principle, by what we do, which is wire our phone into a board that doesn't have any phone connections on live radio during the production of live radio.
[04:52.860 --> 04:57.880]  Oh, I'm impressed by the fact that we have a station that doesn't have a phone line, which is utterly insane.
[04:58.000 --> 04:59.640]  That's amazing for different reasons entirely.
[05:00.240 --> 05:03.640]  Anyway, so, you know, what Kyle did was he wired up the...
[05:05.340 --> 05:11.500]  Kyle, do you want to explain this whole thing so listeners might appreciate the effort that we go through every single week?
[05:11.780 --> 05:11.920]  No.
[05:12.380 --> 05:13.180]  You don't want to explain it?
[05:13.380 --> 05:14.640]  You want to keep the information to yourself?
[05:15.180 --> 05:15.580]  Okay.
[05:15.740 --> 05:17.660]  Well, that's, I guess, how it's going to be.
[05:19.660 --> 05:23.760]  We have lots and lots of listener emails.
[05:23.780 --> 05:26.700]  We're not going to read them all because most of them are angry.
[05:26.920 --> 05:29.620]  Most of them are people that didn't get things they pledged for.
[05:29.760 --> 05:31.240]  Most of them are people that can't reach us.
[05:31.240 --> 05:33.980]  Most of them are upset at other things that are going on.
[05:35.200 --> 05:37.200]  And we might not be here next week.
[05:37.300 --> 05:37.940]  We're not sure yet.
[05:38.480 --> 05:43.100]  Next week, supposedly, is the last week of the Personal Computer Show, which is going on after...
[05:43.100 --> 05:44.200]  Why am I hearing music now?
[05:44.340 --> 05:44.760]  My fault.
[05:44.960 --> 05:45.180]  Sorry.
[05:45.760 --> 05:46.120]  Wow.
[05:46.260 --> 05:48.140]  This place just never ceases to amaze me.
[05:48.860 --> 05:57.320]  Next week is supposedly the last week of the Personal Computer Show, the show that's been talking about personal computers for 33 years on this radio station.
[05:57.320 --> 06:01.740]  And the week after that, we're supposedly moving up an hour to 8 p.m.
[06:04.160 --> 06:06.240]  So we don't know exactly what that means.
[06:06.400 --> 06:11.780]  It's possible that the Personal Computer people might be taking up this slot next week as part of a farewell program.
[06:11.780 --> 06:12.120]  We'll see.
[06:14.260 --> 06:14.740]  Yeah.
[06:15.100 --> 06:21.280]  We'll get to some listener mail and we'll get to some listener phone calls in just a moment.
[06:22.880 --> 06:27.100]  I think we have to get Bernie on the phone first or on whatever he's... he's going to be on Skype.
[06:27.240 --> 06:27.840]  Is that what's going on?
[06:27.880 --> 06:29.360]  We're going to get him in on Skype, yes.
[06:29.540 --> 06:29.720]  Okay.
[06:30.740 --> 06:31.500]  Hope Videos.
[06:31.600 --> 06:32.800]  Hope Videos are done.
[06:33.000 --> 06:33.420]  They're up.
[06:33.540 --> 06:33.960]  They're finished.
[06:34.160 --> 06:34.720]  They're available.
[06:35.120 --> 06:37.120]  And Hope Audio is also online.
[06:37.140 --> 06:40.720]  So you can go to hope.net to listen to every single talk.
[06:42.760 --> 06:44.520]  And it's good to finally get that out of the way.
[06:44.680 --> 06:52.000]  Last week we had a show talking about the Internet Society and how they helped us get all of this together.
[06:53.020 --> 06:54.180]  And now it's finally over.
[06:56.540 --> 06:57.560]  It's really something.
[06:57.740 --> 06:57.860]  Yeah.
[06:57.920 --> 07:01.520]  I mean, you guys have basically been doing Hope stuff since Hope.
[07:01.680 --> 07:03.900]  Like, you didn't get to stop doing it when the conference finished.
[07:05.400 --> 07:07.580]  But how are you guys on that timeline now?
[07:07.580 --> 07:10.500]  Are you, like, nearing some sort of completion?
[07:11.560 --> 07:12.720]  Well, oh, gosh.
[07:12.900 --> 07:13.040]  Wow.
[07:13.180 --> 07:13.600]  That's...
[07:13.600 --> 07:14.980]  There's a lot to that, Rob.
[07:16.100 --> 07:20.800]  So it's a slow process to kind of unpack and unwind a little bit.
[07:20.940 --> 07:29.880]  But yeah, definitely we're finishing up with that stuff and looking ahead, looking at all these crazy things that are going on.
[07:29.980 --> 07:35.520]  I mean, obviously the politics have overshadowed a lot of things, but we're really getting excited for upcoming things.
[07:35.760 --> 07:36.740]  Maker Faire is coming up.
[07:36.740 --> 07:46.580]  So we have a lot of our own sort of projects and little activities and things to plan in coordination with that event.
[07:46.840 --> 07:54.180]  And generally just kind of going through and making sure we're getting feedback from people.
[07:54.400 --> 07:56.500]  Feedback at 2600 or Hope.net.
[07:56.620 --> 07:57.320]  Which one is it?
[07:57.340 --> 07:58.220]  Well, actually both will work.
[07:58.300 --> 08:00.600]  But feedback at Hope.net for those of you who are at the Hope conference.
[08:00.600 --> 08:03.660]  And or those of you who even streamed the whole conference.
[08:03.920 --> 08:05.680]  Granted, don't go too hard on that.
[08:05.760 --> 08:08.420]  You know, definitely put us put an idea down.
[08:08.600 --> 08:11.200]  Make sure you get it out while it's fresh in your mind.
[08:11.300 --> 08:18.060]  But we probably will look at this stuff a little bit later on when we start making plans for 2018.
[08:18.500 --> 08:27.660]  And so we're not going to immediately address these things, but we definitely are collecting basically people's insights and making sure everything is saved well.
[08:27.940 --> 08:37.700]  That's something we really pride ourselves on doing and having a great archival sort of preserved copy of this great event.
[08:38.200 --> 08:45.120]  Particularly, like we like to do it really well for our own edification because it's very hard for us as planners to see this stuff.
[08:45.220 --> 08:50.640]  So we want to make sure it's done well and we like to offer it and make sure other people can have it.
[08:50.640 --> 08:57.860]  And the really cool thing about what we do with this media is, as we said, it was a collaboration with ISOC and so on.
[08:58.600 --> 09:02.620]  But for us, it's really about getting the information out there.
[09:02.760 --> 09:07.440]  So when you buy or otherwise get one of these, you can share it.
[09:07.520 --> 09:09.740]  You can publicly, you can play this video.
[09:09.960 --> 09:11.980]  You can take excerpts from it.
[09:12.020 --> 09:19.180]  Maybe if you're a student, we want this stuff to be a catalyst for more discussion about hacker issues.
[09:19.360 --> 09:19.580]  Yes.
[09:21.060 --> 09:24.500]  And especially in relation to the grander social context.
[09:24.900 --> 09:30.520]  So we worked really hard on that because it's important to us to get that info to the right people.
[09:30.560 --> 09:35.220]  I think it's important to outline just what we've been doing for the last month as far as just getting all this together.
[09:35.220 --> 09:42.320]  Because we needed to get quality copies of all of the videos, which we didn't have at first.
[09:42.600 --> 09:43.140]  And now we do.
[09:43.600 --> 09:44.620]  Everything is complete.
[09:45.300 --> 09:47.940]  Everything... Actually, a few seconds on the very first talk, I think, that I'm missing.
[09:48.020 --> 09:48.340]  But that's it.
[09:49.140 --> 09:50.080]  It all looks great.
[09:50.180 --> 09:52.360]  It all looks better than I've ever seen it look before.
[09:53.060 --> 09:55.380]  And we had to get that into different formats.
[09:55.520 --> 09:56.540]  We had to make the DVDs.
[09:56.580 --> 09:57.900]  We had to make sure they were proofed.
[09:58.120 --> 10:00.260]  And they did what they were supposed to do.
[10:00.440 --> 10:03.000]  There's all kinds of video problems that you can run into.
[10:03.360 --> 10:06.640]  It's often... It's mostly because there's so many options with video.
[10:06.800 --> 10:08.340]  There's a lot of different things to do.
[10:08.440 --> 10:13.780]  And also, at the particular moment we're in now, there's a lot of transition going on with formats.
[10:13.980 --> 10:16.440]  And of course, things becoming more affordable.
[10:16.760 --> 10:19.480]  I mean, HD is sort of people's expectation now.
[10:19.640 --> 10:31.080]  But from the traditional form of capturing and recording that we've done, and as we track the different medias, I mean, we used to do VHS and so on.
[10:31.220 --> 10:37.860]  And DVDs were something Jolie asked about last week, why we were still supporting that.
[10:37.940 --> 10:41.360]  And it's mostly because DVD players are so widely available.
[10:41.440 --> 10:43.840]  And they're in sort of a traditional desktop computer.
[10:43.960 --> 10:48.200]  So we're straddling different eras and generations of tech.
[10:48.360 --> 10:55.400]  And we're kind of in a transition in between, especially on-site for the production of Hope and the recording on-site.
[10:55.560 --> 10:57.420]  We've got this tremendous network capability.
[10:57.580 --> 11:00.040]  But we're really... it's not all tied together.
[11:00.180 --> 11:08.180]  We have different groups and different support layers, as well as the Backbone Uplink and all these different pieces.
[11:08.420 --> 11:12.480]  So really, we're starting to mature and evolve in our capturing of this stuff.
[11:12.600 --> 11:19.400]  But as E said, we had some live down converting that was going to standard definition.
[11:19.700 --> 11:36.260]  And then some of the streaming stuff was able to be restored or otherwise downloaded from the streaming host in what we refer to as a 720p format, which is a form of HD, a broadcast quality.
[11:36.540 --> 11:39.460]  So we're sort of straddling those two.
[11:39.680 --> 11:42.580]  And what we've done is basically take the best of those things.
[11:42.700 --> 11:51.840]  And of course, for areas where perhaps a camera didn't work, or there's a little bit of an audio problem, we had the standard definition versions.
[11:51.840 --> 11:54.740]  And really, there was only a couple talks where we had to fill in.
[11:54.900 --> 12:00.360]  And basically, what we ended up doing is stitching a higher resolution copy with an SD copy.
[12:00.540 --> 12:07.720]  But by having that redundancy, and different groups working on it and capturing in their own ways, we ended up having more backups.
[12:07.960 --> 12:13.700]  So there's no section of the 11th hope that is really missing.
[12:14.200 --> 12:16.660]  We have every talk in its entirety.
[12:16.880 --> 12:25.540]  And you know what I'm noticing what we really, I think was illustrated well, I didn't get it at first, but people are very complimentary about the organization, the timing, the schedule being on time.
[12:25.740 --> 12:28.700]  That's really evident in the video, because you have to keep a schedule.
[12:28.880 --> 12:32.380]  Otherwise, talks run over into the next hour, and it gets really complicated.
[12:32.580 --> 12:40.840]  And really, when we were going through each track, it's amazing how that did really work and how respectful hackers were of other people's time.
[12:41.060 --> 12:52.400]  Everybody was willing to take questions, willing to take questions outside of the area where the talk was taking place, but also take it away from the stage so that other people could prepare and so on.
[12:52.500 --> 13:07.280]  So it's really fascinating to just see the talks, the pieces that we've seen so far, but then to make sure we have coverage, you know, and using standard definition copies as backup and filling in any kind of technical stuff.
[13:08.380 --> 13:10.600]  Sync issues are another thing that we test for.
[13:11.140 --> 13:11.580]  Oh, yes.
[13:11.700 --> 13:13.260]  It's something that you can overlook.
[13:13.700 --> 13:18.980]  And sometimes DVD authoring and different when you're doing transcoding and using different software that's available.
[13:19.420 --> 13:26.460]  And especially when you're a small organization, you don't have huge systems or services doing all this stuff for you.
[13:26.460 --> 13:28.560]  So there's a lot of options, a lot of choices.
[13:28.760 --> 13:34.600]  So you have to make some hard decisions about the qualities and sort of the production standard you want to adhere to.
[13:34.800 --> 13:49.380]  And then go from there, as far as getting the production value in a finished form that is approachable and looks good, but also syncs well.
[13:49.500 --> 13:55.360]  Because if your audio is bad, if your audio is out of sync by even a half second, people notice and it's really distracting.
[13:55.660 --> 13:59.260]  So those little things, I mean, are important to us.
[13:59.380 --> 14:09.940]  It's really... it doesn't matter sort of the menus or some of the other things aren't as important to us or were not as important when we were creating these discs and drives.
[14:10.300 --> 14:12.760]  What was most important is the technical side.
[14:13.060 --> 14:17.320]  Is the resolution as good as we can get to fit in the media that we're using?
[14:17.520 --> 14:20.360]  And is the audio matching what the lips are doing?
[14:20.460 --> 14:22.220]  Because that's a critical thing with video.
[14:22.220 --> 14:31.420]  If that gets out of sync and you don't skip through and check the entire length of the video on a disc, you can end up distributing hundreds of copies of bad video to people.
[14:31.580 --> 14:40.640]  And that really, really is disappointing when you're geared up to listen and see the visuals and all this great stuff that is really about the information.
[14:40.660 --> 14:41.860]  You don't want to get caught up in that.
[14:41.940 --> 14:49.820]  It's funny because we had simple problems, such as we had an MP4 that went on a little too long with blank space and we just wanted to edit that.
[14:49.980 --> 14:56.980]  And you would not believe the problems we had just trying to edit an MP4 because, you know, we tried to edit it in one place and then it put everything out of sync.
[14:57.120 --> 15:00.520]  And then it did some other craziness at the end.
[15:00.680 --> 15:03.100]  Then it saved it in a format that nothing could understand.
[15:03.340 --> 15:03.480]  Yeah.
[15:03.620 --> 15:14.760]  There's some, again, this is us being a bit of a small organization and having a lot of options, but also, you know, using certain software that works well, doing one thing, it being proprietary.
[15:14.920 --> 15:19.420]  And I mean, I guess we should know more than anyone else, but we, we, we know it when we see it.
[15:19.520 --> 15:35.280]  And that is that when these things get updated and then updated out of actually being functional, then we're sort of left to scramble to find other options that will, that will be suitable and not degrade, uh, the, the media that we're working with.
[15:35.460 --> 15:45.440]  So we, we ended up, um, uh, having a software package that the parent company had been bought by a Canadian company or some, some kind of craziness like that.
[15:45.720 --> 15:45.840]  It got ridiculous.
[15:46.180 --> 15:53.420]  So their latest version works worse than, uh, the previous version that was maintained by a software company for like 15 years without any problems.
[15:53.420 --> 15:56.960]  And we had plenty of luck, uh, restoring and redoing our DVDs.
[15:57.020 --> 16:00.080]  But not before we, we saved it and everybody sounded like chipmunks or was that.
[16:00.240 --> 16:00.400]  Yeah.
[16:00.440 --> 16:01.500]  It would speed up the audio.
[16:01.500 --> 16:05.420]  It was, it was only 15 minutes long when it was actually an hour long and the time codes.
[16:05.680 --> 16:05.680]  Yeah.
[16:05.720 --> 16:06.760]  We couldn't get past that.
[16:06.960 --> 16:07.100]  Yeah.
[16:07.280 --> 16:09.880]  You know, we wasted a lot of time trying to figure all these things out.
[16:09.960 --> 16:10.960]  We finally got it down though.
[16:11.040 --> 16:15.200]  We finally have it working and yeah, I know, you know, there are people who can play in MP4 proprietary, all that.
[16:15.340 --> 16:15.900]  You know what?
[16:15.940 --> 16:16.980]  You can download the thing.
[16:17.140 --> 16:19.740]  You can copy it to whatever format you wish.
[16:19.820 --> 16:20.560]  You can convert it.
[16:20.680 --> 16:21.960]  There's all kinds of utilities out there.
[16:22.280 --> 16:24.080]  We just have to get on with our lives.
[16:24.160 --> 16:27.780]  We've been at this a month now without stopping and it's finally done.
[16:27.900 --> 16:28.920]  It's, it's there.
[16:29.180 --> 16:33.620]  Uh, all the details are on our website and all the audio is up to, and we want to move on to the next conference.
[16:33.800 --> 16:34.080]  Yeah.
[16:34.140 --> 16:36.180]  It still never fails to amaze me how here we are.
[16:36.300 --> 16:39.500]  We're a solid like 15, 20 years into the home multimedia era.
[16:39.780 --> 16:47.120]  And because of all these competing proprietary formats and, you know, applications and everything else, like video production is still kind of a dark art.
[16:47.520 --> 16:49.400]  Um, and it's just a mess.
[16:49.520 --> 16:49.960]  It is.
[16:50.040 --> 16:55.360]  There's just so many options and there are a lot of different, um, little details.
[16:55.560 --> 17:08.060]  These really, the things that you wouldn't think are important, these specific things like codecs and container formats and, and, uh, trans coding and, and, uh, and frame rates and, and, uh, audio frequencies and different things like that.
[17:08.180 --> 17:11.480]  It's, it's really critical and can easily get screwed up.
[17:11.560 --> 17:20.060]  And I think that's a good way of keeping people out of the field too, so that it, it becomes more of a skill that only certain people can, can, uh, can get through.
[17:20.200 --> 17:23.320]  But I would say out of, out of this entire process, I'm really hopeful.
[17:23.320 --> 17:37.420]  I'm excited for what is possible because what I see out of this, and as I said, I'll, I'll say it a third time is that we are really straddling different formats and we're in kind of a transitional period, uh, where, uh, again, this stuff is being democratized in,
[17:37.420 --> 17:39.300]  in such a way that a lot of people can use it.
[17:39.600 --> 17:47.540]  But, um, even, even the way it is, um, like in our own, um, warehouse, we've got formats that we used.
[17:47.660 --> 17:50.060]  I know Freedom Downtime was released on VHS tapes.
[17:50.320 --> 17:51.880]  Uh, we've, we've done other formats.
[17:52.100 --> 17:53.000]  Those are changing.
[17:53.160 --> 18:00.440]  I mean, we were offering thumb drives now, but we actually physically have to dispose of VHS tapes in like an ethical way.
[18:00.440 --> 18:04.560]  And like these, these are real problems that we are running into as these formats change.
[18:04.720 --> 18:10.760]  So here we are at the precipice of DVDs becoming out of, out of style and thumb drives moving in.
[18:11.280 --> 18:17.220]  What, what then, you know, even though it's still very portable because people have DVD players in all parts of the world.
[18:17.500 --> 18:19.380]  So it's still relevant in that sense.
[18:19.420 --> 18:21.900]  And we still have to make the DVDs, which is a whole big thing.
[18:21.980 --> 18:24.260]  No matter how few people want them, we still have to do that.
[18:24.260 --> 18:25.160]  It's a lot of work.
[18:25.160 --> 18:29.900]  It still takes a lot of time to author each, you know, of a hundred talks, author a hundred discs.
[18:30.220 --> 18:32.480]  Um, and you know, you can do it a lot of different ways.
[18:32.600 --> 18:35.680]  We do it kind of fast and dirty, but we get it done in a nice way.
[18:36.100 --> 18:40.780]  That's all to make it, uh, available to people that have that particular format, which is DVD.
[18:41.000 --> 18:46.500]  But VHS tapes, we've got a palette of them right now that we don't use because nobody buys that anymore.
[18:46.720 --> 18:51.700]  So that, that is the pace of formats that we're, we're actually witnessing change before our eyes.
[18:51.780 --> 18:54.220]  And it's really fascinating from our perspective as publishers.
[18:54.400 --> 18:55.240]  You know what else we did?
[18:55.480 --> 18:58.760]  Uh, ID3 tags on the MP3s and the MP4s.
[18:58.820 --> 19:10.520]  I don't know if it's called ID3 tags on MP4s, but just getting the info right so that it's accurate, making sure the speakers that are supposed to speak on a certain panel are the ones that are speaking on that panel, making sure it's the right one that it matches.
[19:11.040 --> 19:14.380]  Uh, and I'm, I, I think, uh, we can say that we got it all right.
[19:14.620 --> 19:18.880]  Uh, and also, um, uh, what Kyle was saying about the technology changing over the years.
[19:19.140 --> 19:25.580]  You know, last time, uh, we had this brand new technology, 64 gig flash drives, uh, or thumb drives.
[19:25.960 --> 19:33.880]  Um, and now it's 128, you know, it's 128 and, uh, uh, uh, our, our talks is taking up that much space because they're in HD for the first time.
[19:33.880 --> 19:35.220]  So it's, it's amazing.
[19:35.360 --> 19:38.480]  I would never have guessed we were going to double our, our disc capacity.
[19:38.980 --> 19:38.980]  Yeah.
[19:38.980 --> 19:42.220]  And that's, that's in large part because of, uh, internet society's capability.
[19:42.480 --> 19:45.880]  And, uh, what that is, is, uh, um, 720p.
[19:46.160 --> 19:52.760]  So what that's, it's essentially the same, uh, resolution as 720p, which is a broadcast HD standard, which is, it's fantastic.
[19:52.920 --> 19:59.220]  I'm told really high quality 2018, we will be 3d and that, that is going to be something that's specifically the MPEG four files.
[19:59.440 --> 20:01.560]  Again, um, DVDs are, are changed.
[20:02.140 --> 20:03.120]  I maybe 3d.
[20:03.280 --> 20:03.720]  I don't know.
[20:03.840 --> 20:04.380]  Can we do three?
[20:04.480 --> 20:06.800]  We might have to get more discs involved.
[20:06.940 --> 20:07.280]  I don't know.
[20:07.360 --> 20:08.220]  We'll almost look alive.
[20:08.520 --> 20:08.680]  Yeah.
[20:09.440 --> 20:10.400]  Is Bernie with us?
[20:10.500 --> 20:11.680]  Bernie should be with us.
[20:11.840 --> 20:11.940]  Bernie?
[20:13.160 --> 20:13.860]  There's no Bernie.
[20:14.020 --> 20:14.320]  Greetings.
[20:14.500 --> 20:15.000]  Oh, there he is.
[20:15.160 --> 20:15.320]  Okay.
[20:15.360 --> 20:15.700]  Hi Bernie.
[20:16.200 --> 20:17.200]  What's, what's, what's up?
[20:17.620 --> 20:18.180]  Hi there.
[20:18.480 --> 20:18.480]  Hi there.
[20:18.480 --> 20:19.300]  My God, you're here.
[20:19.380 --> 20:19.940]  The person.
[20:21.020 --> 20:21.400]  Wow.
[20:22.040 --> 20:22.960]  What a surprise.
[20:23.500 --> 20:24.320]  Blood, sweat and tears.
[20:24.740 --> 20:25.100]  Wow.
[20:25.840 --> 20:26.500]  In the flesh.
[20:26.700 --> 20:26.820]  Wow.
[20:26.920 --> 20:27.380]  He's here.
[20:28.320 --> 20:32.000]  Well, pull up a microphone, but hang up that phone of yours.
[20:32.200 --> 20:34.060]  And this is a real surprise.
[20:34.500 --> 20:35.620]  There's a microphone right over there.
[20:35.940 --> 20:36.340]  Oh, okay.
[20:36.560 --> 20:36.780]  Yes.
[20:37.860 --> 20:39.360]  Well, you see the shirt I'm wearing.
[20:39.840 --> 20:41.640]  Yeah, that's the, um, what does it say?
[20:41.640 --> 20:41.640]  Yeah.
[20:41.780 --> 20:46.340]  That's a vintage off the hook WBAI t-shirt.
[20:46.620 --> 20:47.660]  That is fantastic.
[20:47.700 --> 20:48.120]  That is.
[20:48.120 --> 20:49.640]  What does it say here at the bottom?
[20:50.280 --> 20:51.460]  Wednesdays at 1900.
[20:51.800 --> 20:52.640]  We're going to have to change that.
[20:52.740 --> 20:53.160]  Oh, you're right.
[20:53.160 --> 20:54.240]  Those shirts are no good anymore.
[20:54.540 --> 20:56.380]  I wore, we're going to have to do a mass recall, like.
[20:56.820 --> 20:57.180]  Yeah.
[20:57.260 --> 20:58.140]  Use the microphone, Bernie.
[20:58.340 --> 21:00.660]  We're going to have to do a mass recall like Volkswagen on these t-shirts.
[21:00.880 --> 21:01.240]  Yes.
[21:01.460 --> 21:02.840]  I don't know how many of them are out in the field.
[21:03.000 --> 21:06.400]  So wait, you've been just waiting outside, uh, this whole time.
[21:06.400 --> 21:07.960]  Actually, I just got up here seconds ago.
[21:08.200 --> 21:08.400]  Wow.
[21:08.580 --> 21:08.820]  Okay.
[21:09.440 --> 21:11.000]  Uh, well use the microphone there.
[21:11.160 --> 21:11.760]  You see it's this one here?
[21:11.960 --> 21:11.980]  Yeah.
[21:12.140 --> 21:12.340]  All right.
[21:12.500 --> 21:12.680]  Okay.
[21:12.800 --> 21:13.280]  Greetings everyone.
[21:13.600 --> 21:14.240]  Sorry for the, uh.
[21:14.820 --> 21:16.060]  And we have headphones for Bernie?
[21:16.500 --> 21:16.500]  Yes.
[21:16.500 --> 21:17.380]  We didn't know you were coming.
[21:17.540 --> 21:18.560]  We would have prepared something.
[21:18.860 --> 21:21.000]  Well, you know, sometimes surprises are good things.
[21:21.140 --> 21:27.020]  Well, uh, we have surprises because we're going to be taking, uh, listener phone calls in, in, in just a moment and you'll be able to take those as well.
[21:27.100 --> 21:33.560]  We won't have to worry about losing you on, on, on the, on the, uh, on the phone line or lack of phone line, whatever it is.
[21:33.840 --> 21:35.200]  Is this your first time in this?
[21:35.300 --> 21:37.480]  This is my first time in this studio.
[21:37.660 --> 21:38.860]  I hope it's not my last time.
[21:39.040 --> 21:39.400]  Thank you, Kyle.
[21:39.400 --> 21:40.160]  Well, we don't know.
[21:40.340 --> 21:43.140]  Kyle's handing me headphones over a bunch of wires and tubes and things.
[21:43.220 --> 21:43.380]  Wow.
[21:43.380 --> 21:44.500]  We are just so together, aren't we?
[21:44.920 --> 21:53.780]  Um, I'm going to read, um, a listener email and then maybe we can, um, smoothly go into listener phone calls while Bernie is, is putting those headphones back together.
[21:54.480 --> 21:59.980]  Um, this, um, this is from a listener, uh, Kyle who took exception with our, our, um, statement on Volkswagen's last week.
[21:59.980 --> 22:02.540]  He said, well, that I, I can explain it a little bit.
[22:02.720 --> 22:04.020]  Can I read the letter and then you can explain it?
[22:04.140 --> 22:04.300]  No, you should.
[22:04.440 --> 22:05.100]  You really ought to.
[22:05.220 --> 22:05.400]  I will.
[22:05.400 --> 22:06.300]  Don't think I won't.
[22:06.340 --> 22:07.220]  No, I've got a lot to say.
[22:07.380 --> 22:09.260]  He says your mechanic is misinformed.
[22:09.420 --> 22:09.760]  It's possible.
[22:09.760 --> 22:10.600]  I might be misinformed.
[22:10.700 --> 22:12.000]  I might've just gotten things wrong.
[22:12.100 --> 22:13.300]  It's, it's entirely possible.
[22:13.460 --> 22:17.420]  Uh, the type of emission test the mechanic does has nothing to do with the VW scandal.
[22:17.760 --> 22:26.100]  First, there never was a tailpipe emission inspection test for diesel cars, uh, that would measure the gases, uh, uh, gasoline engines were tested for.
[22:26.320 --> 22:30.920]  Second, if an independent shop decided to purchase such equipment, nobody is stopping them from using it.
[22:31.060 --> 22:35.280]  A DM, a DMCA violation to analyze exhaust gas.
[22:35.280 --> 22:40.700]  He, he says with, uh, uh, incred, increduity, uh, which incredulously.
[22:41.100 --> 22:41.240]  Yes.
[22:41.780 --> 22:44.760]  Uh, finally, the scandal has nothing to do with state emission testing.
[22:44.900 --> 22:50.640]  VW software cheat did actually affect the tailpipe emissions during the EPA certification test.
[22:50.820 --> 22:54.480]  All vehicle models have to be EPA certified before they can be sold.
[22:54.880 --> 23:05.020]  The certification test is much more sophisticated than the yearly state emission check and involve direct measurement of emissions rather than depending on the onboard diagnostic system as a state test do.
[23:05.340 --> 23:10.580]  That's why New York dropped emissions testing for pre-1996 cars because they don't have onboard emission tests.
[23:10.860 --> 23:13.060]  And by the way, there are people who hack their car's computer.
[23:13.200 --> 23:18.980]  So the car will tell the state emission computer that all systems pass when in fact they are missing or inoperative.
[23:19.100 --> 23:21.800]  I think that's very interesting story and kind of similar to what we were talking about.
[23:21.960 --> 23:30.480]  Uh, they usually do this when they reprogram the computer to perform with performance mods that would be restricted by emission equipment or the need to maintain emission levels.
[23:30.620 --> 23:31.440]  Well, I don't know, Kyle.
[23:31.560 --> 23:36.540]  Uh, I think I have to stand corrected on some of the things I was saying because it sounds like this guy knows what he's talking about.
[23:36.880 --> 23:37.220]  Yeah.
[23:37.320 --> 23:39.100]  I mean, I think, I don't know if we were clear.
[23:39.200 --> 23:40.380]  I think there's a little bit of a misunderstanding.
[23:40.640 --> 23:51.360]  I mean, the, the real thing that the mechanic is, is testing is, is if the EPA certified system on the car is there and working as designed.
[23:51.600 --> 24:02.620]  So it's saying that all the components in this system that the EPA is certified is an okay system for emissions based on the more stringent test, it's there and everything's working.
[24:02.760 --> 24:12.740]  If something fails in that system, then the, the, uh, dealer or the mechanic would see that a part of that system is failing to make that system whole again.
[24:12.740 --> 24:15.880]  He would then be able to replace it and get it in a functional state.
[24:15.880 --> 24:28.440]  But that, that system design is what is certified by the actual air sniffer or the, the quality of the emissions, the more strict federal test, the state tests just verify.
[24:28.440 --> 24:37.480]  And this is what we were talking about by plugging in and seeing, all right, are all the pieces of this design here because the design itself was certified nationally.
[24:37.760 --> 24:38.320]  I see.
[24:38.540 --> 24:39.520]  So he's correct.
[24:39.700 --> 24:39.780]  Yeah.
[24:39.920 --> 24:54.420]  While this then might not tie directly into DMCA, there are so many other elements in modern cars that do that keep mechanics from being able to fix them without signing on to some expensive software program or being authorized, uh, by some authority.
[24:54.420 --> 24:57.260]  And we're seeing the same thing in so many different aspects of life.
[24:57.380 --> 24:58.300]  There was a really good article.
[24:58.540 --> 25:03.600]  Uh, I think it was on NBC of all places, uh, this week about, um, was it farm equipment?
[25:03.840 --> 25:04.040]  Yes.
[25:04.340 --> 25:04.560]  Yeah.
[25:04.760 --> 25:15.700]  There's a huge, and I'm, I think this also goes for long haul truckers, um, with their large diesel, uh, rigs that are absolutely, uh, far more advanced in computer control than ever before.
[25:16.120 --> 25:18.440]  Um, and those guys are interested in fuel economy.
[25:18.440 --> 25:29.260]  Uh, so, but farmers, uh, particularly they have, you know, the, the, the life of the farm is the, the, um, capability of their equipment and their tools that they use to work on the farm.
[25:29.260 --> 25:31.820]  How could a farmer be, be affected by digital millennium copyright?
[25:31.820 --> 25:39.200]  Well, you would be, you would be amazed at how automated a lot of the, uh, large combines and farm equipment is.
[25:39.340 --> 25:43.900]  It is, and, and a lot of construction equipment now too is a GPS capable.
[25:44.300 --> 25:49.900]  In other words, you can, you can have GPS, um, computers side by side with your bulldozer or whatever.
[25:50.040 --> 26:05.880]  But with, with farming in particular, that's how, um, a large degree of automation like autopilot, uh, is actually, um, a feature on some of these vehicles to, to say nothing of all the other sensors and control systems that are, that would be a part of a modern piece of farm equipment.
[26:06.180 --> 26:15.700]  Well, if something breaks on that system and in the particular article, the example was that, you know, the regional dealer was out, you know, on a business trip or something or a vacation.
[26:16.040 --> 26:25.960]  So then this guy's crop gets delayed and all of this stuff cascades into his harvest being ruined as a result of an inability to fix the equipment that he had paid for.
[26:26.120 --> 26:27.540]  He had licensed, right?
[26:27.720 --> 26:36.380]  And, and, or in, in years past when there weren't these software limitations or these limitations on interfacing with the software, and that's where the DMCA comes in.
[26:36.500 --> 26:45.160]  If they weren't there, he would simply be as, um, as, um, uh, impeded as his own skill.
[26:45.340 --> 26:46.740]  And that's no longer the case.
[26:46.740 --> 26:50.500]  If you have the skill, um, you're actually legally not allowed.
[26:50.640 --> 26:55.340]  Whereas in the past, it's just about, do you actually understand how to maintain or otherwise repair?
[26:55.500 --> 26:57.040]  And if you do, it's there for you.
[26:57.120 --> 26:58.420]  You have the tools and everything's open.
[26:58.580 --> 26:59.480]  The instructions are there.
[26:59.580 --> 27:01.380]  Here we have no instructions for interfacing it.
[27:01.600 --> 27:15.320]  No tools can be created by any third parties and, uh, a huge amount of money to be gained by the dealers and everybody else who can in, who can do things like keeping, uh, emissions things in a black box or other kind of, uh, black box things where, um,
[27:15.560 --> 27:19.980]  you don't get to understand exactly the other safety or emissions control things.
[27:20.120 --> 27:22.460]  So you can't just lift up the hood and fix it anymore.
[27:22.600 --> 27:23.280]  It's not that not at all.
[27:23.480 --> 27:27.920]  No, the black box you refer to is basically, uh, secrecy, right?
[27:27.920 --> 27:34.860]  It's, it's the, um, source code to whatever firmware operating systems are a part of whatever farm equipment is out there.
[27:35.260 --> 27:45.580]  You know, we've been warning people about the digital and laying and copyright act since 2000, when we were the first, the first to be sued under it from the motion picture association of America.
[27:45.940 --> 27:46.100]  Yeah.
[27:46.420 --> 27:46.940]  Think about it.
[27:47.120 --> 27:50.420]  Back when it was about DVDs, maybe it might've made some sense.
[27:50.620 --> 27:57.780]  It really didn't make sense, but look, it's been expanded to so much else and it's, there's nothing it can't, it can affect at this point.
[27:57.960 --> 27:57.960]  Yeah.
[27:57.960 --> 28:03.900]  And this, this goes down to food security, which is something that we should all be heavily, uh, invested in and care quite a bit about.
[28:04.060 --> 28:05.800]  And I think I want to talk to some of these guys.
[28:05.880 --> 28:08.840]  I would love to interview one, uh, a farmer or two or truckers.
[28:08.980 --> 28:11.540]  This is a strong, huge group of people.
[28:11.720 --> 28:13.460]  This is the bread belt, right?
[28:13.560 --> 28:23.220]  And the logistics, like muscle of our country who basically are, they get their hands tied and dealers and, uh, uh, motor vehicle corporations.
[28:23.600 --> 28:38.000]  And dare I say, then, uh, petroleum companies, because that's the fuel it's, uh, generally is they're basically locking people out of making their equipment more efficient or, or, um, something that they don't have to replace every two or three years.
[28:39.180 --> 28:42.000]  Um, I'm glad you brought up the food security issue.
[28:42.140 --> 28:46.200]  I'm, I was a member of the future farmers of America when I was in high school.
[28:46.380 --> 28:46.620]  Sure.
[28:46.740 --> 28:46.860]  Sure.
[28:46.880 --> 28:48.900]  I had my own purple corduroy jacket.
[28:48.900 --> 28:49.820]  You're FFA?
[28:49.980 --> 28:50.920]  I was an FFA member.
[28:51.120 --> 28:51.220]  Wow.
[28:51.300 --> 28:51.700]  I didn't know that.
[28:51.920 --> 28:58.420]  And, um, I, uh, worked part-time on a farm and drove a tractor once or twice.
[28:58.420 --> 28:59.520]  Oh, you did not drive a tractor.
[28:59.740 --> 29:00.800]  I did drive a tractor once or twice.
[29:00.800 --> 29:01.140]  Wow.
[29:01.300 --> 29:02.680]  I wasn't, I wasn't plowing fields.
[29:02.780 --> 29:05.040]  I was, uh, uh, it was the manure spreader.
[29:05.100 --> 29:06.840]  It was flinging manure up into the air.
[29:06.920 --> 29:07.380]  That I believe.
[29:07.540 --> 29:08.360]  It was a stinky job.
[29:08.600 --> 29:08.800]  Anyway.
[29:09.240 --> 29:10.460]  It explains a lot, Bernie.
[29:10.520 --> 29:10.860]  It does.
[29:11.020 --> 29:13.440]  It stuck with me, literally and figuratively.
[29:13.440 --> 29:20.400]  Um, but, but the, but the, uh, today, these, uh, those are, I thought that the, the tractors back then were pretty hard to high tech.
[29:20.600 --> 29:23.820]  I mean, they had enclosed, uh, like a cockpit.
[29:23.840 --> 29:24.620]  Climate control.
[29:25.020 --> 29:25.540]  And radio stereo.
[29:25.800 --> 29:26.920]  I'm like, wow, this is amazing.
[29:27.340 --> 29:29.660]  Um, but now they're, as you mentioned, they're equipped with GPS.
[29:29.940 --> 29:33.400]  If you want to plow fields, um, the... Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
[29:33.520 --> 29:35.080]  Why does a tractor need to have GPS?
[29:35.360 --> 29:39.660]  Because you want your, your rows to be straight when you're planting corn and crops.
[29:40.220 --> 29:41.920]  And this is a way to optimize.
[29:42.140 --> 29:48.960]  You can plug in a map of your field and it will optimize the best way to plow that field based on the terrain.
[29:49.080 --> 29:49.380]  Okay.
[29:49.640 --> 29:49.820]  All right.
[29:49.920 --> 29:50.100]  Slopes.
[29:50.340 --> 29:50.680]  Inclines.
[29:51.100 --> 29:51.460]  Inclines.
[29:51.600 --> 29:57.640]  And you want the, you don't want the water going, you know, I thought it was to track you to make sure you didn't plow somebody else's field.
[29:57.820 --> 29:57.960]  No, no, no.
[29:57.960 --> 29:58.700]  GPS is people love.
[29:58.700 --> 30:00.560]  A lot of people think GPS is just for tracking people.
[30:00.700 --> 30:02.580]  No, there's just a lot of other, other things.
[30:02.860 --> 30:05.180]  You got to remember it's signal from a satellite.
[30:05.180 --> 30:05.400]  Right.
[30:05.620 --> 30:11.720]  The, the machine that's equipped to receive those signals is basically using that information to its own end.
[30:11.880 --> 30:21.500]  So it's up to the design of that vehicle to interpret that data that's coming down from GPS and do with it what it's programmed or designed to do.
[30:21.620 --> 30:30.160]  In this case, map out a field or do some kind of optimization, optimization for efficiency and other kinds of agricultural stuff that people care about in, in growing.
[30:30.420 --> 30:43.180]  So what, what would happen if, uh, if there was a serious bug in, uh, some major tractor manufacturers, tractors, uh, like, you know, electronic control systems that just failed or, or an update went bad or everything went on.
[30:43.260 --> 30:43.360]  Yeah.
[30:43.500 --> 30:49.640]  And then the result was a percentage in this way or that way in this huge system that so many things rely on.
[30:49.760 --> 30:52.020]  As Kyle points out, this could really affect the nation's food production.
[30:52.020 --> 31:01.040]  And I don't think there are nations food production should be the hands of, it should be in the hands of, uh, companies that own copyrighted code in, you know, in farm equipment.
[31:01.240 --> 31:07.120]  It's interesting how, uh, when we watch political races, it's always about, uh, keeping things out of the hands of government.
[31:07.260 --> 31:08.000]  That's always the fear.
[31:08.200 --> 31:19.620]  But you see what happens when it's put in the hands of corporations, they maintain this, the, the, the same type of control that people fear of government, but government is never as efficient and they can never do as good a job of it.
[31:19.780 --> 31:27.020]  Uh, and, and you have situations where you're locked out of certain necessities and we're seeing it in all these different fields now.
[31:27.020 --> 31:27.540]  Yeah.
[31:27.700 --> 31:44.400]  And it's, it's a, it's a real shame because I think if you actually talk to the manufacturers, you would hear a lot about protecting intellectual property and, and, um, ensuring that, um, they are not susceptible to industrial espionage and so on and so forth.
[31:44.540 --> 31:53.080]  So that is why they want to protect their, uh, you know, whatever algorithms or, or software's producing this feature that they're able to sell.
[31:53.300 --> 32:00.640]  That's, that is a strategic, um, that's a, that is a business advantage to offer those features and that technology.
[32:00.960 --> 32:25.820]  So they'll probably tell us that, you know, that, that it is incredibly important to, to keep that stuff locked, but what I keep it locked up, but what I really think, uh, we should emphasize and needs to be, um, that what the consumer can, can impart to these manufacturers is that it is better in the long run from an innovation standpoint to open these systems up and allow innovative innovators
[32:25.820 --> 32:44.000]  and entrepreneurs, people that understand the equipment in its use, not just from a sales or, uh, engineering standpoint, but understand what the practicalities are of it when it's actually deployed and used on a farm or for instance, they can come up with,
[32:44.000 --> 32:55.080]  uh, aftermarket parts or other products that support the, the, uh, product that manufacturer has opened up to hacking and, uh, and, uh, mechanics and so on.
[32:55.280 --> 33:03.720]  Also, you ask the manufacturers, uh, and they'll tell you, yeah, it's important to close our systems, to close our source, to, you know, basically be the only ones who make money off of our thing.
[33:03.840 --> 33:10.440]  But if you ask the end users, I, I, I would imagine that most of these people would just like to be able to fix their own damn truck if it breaks down.
[33:10.960 --> 33:11.080]  Yeah.
[33:11.520 --> 33:11.660]  Yeah.
[33:11.780 --> 33:16.680]  That's really, uh, it's about the right to repair and, uh, the right to use your own property as you see fit.
[33:16.980 --> 33:28.860]  Well, these are topics we're going to be discussing and focusing on, uh, us being this show, the magazine, the whole hacker community, because if anything, the, the DMCA is bringing people together in opposition to it.
[33:29.000 --> 33:30.160]  And that's, that's a good thing.
[33:30.260 --> 33:30.560]  Absolutely.
[33:30.760 --> 33:30.860]  Yeah.
[33:30.980 --> 33:34.820]  No, there's a lot of really exciting stuff and people really, they're understanding it.
[33:34.920 --> 33:36.840]  They're getting it because it's so pervasive.
[33:37.120 --> 33:49.560]  This, this, um, internet of things, uh, uh, sort of revolution or whatever you want to call it, all of these, um, bits of technology that, that we're using and, uh, and sort of inundated with are affecting us.
[33:49.660 --> 33:57.540]  And we really are understanding that, you know, it's important to have a say in, in how that stuff, how you, what you're actually agreeing to.
[33:58.360 --> 33:59.160]  Yes, absolutely.
[33:59.680 --> 34:12.520]  Um, Hey, we're going to, um, uh, be taking phone calls in just a moment, but I'd like to read a couple of letters, uh, on other topics from our listeners, uh, because, uh, they, they deserve to be heard and they haven't been heard much lately.
[34:12.840 --> 34:15.480]  Uh, this is addressed to all of us at off the hook.
[34:15.580 --> 34:20.060]  I appreciate all your effort to try to get our premiums mailed from previous fundraisers.
[34:20.420 --> 34:22.040]  Perhaps it'll actually happen someday.
[34:22.200 --> 34:25.400]  However, I suspect that the days of WBAI are about to come to an end.
[34:25.660 --> 34:27.800]  If the election propaganda is true, that's right.
[34:27.860 --> 34:31.060]  We're in the midst of an election now and all kinds of dire warnings are being issued.
[34:31.560 --> 34:34.880]  I got to say though, you know, how many times have I heard that over the years?
[34:35.040 --> 34:36.400]  It does seem more dire this time.
[34:36.400 --> 34:43.660]  I will say that, but, um, I don't think there's ever been a period I've been involved here where there isn't, uh, some kind of crisis going on.
[34:43.800 --> 34:47.600]  Anyway, I'm sure you guys will keep the show going somewhere, but it will be a sad day.
[34:47.880 --> 34:50.540]  Even if I never get the two thumb drives I'm owed, so be it.
[34:50.620 --> 34:54.280]  But I really do hope that I do someday get the paintings of Rob's that I pledged for.
[34:54.420 --> 34:56.740]  I have a spot in my house plan for them.
[34:57.320 --> 35:01.620]  And, um, uh, Michael goes on to, uh, uh, to, uh, list the premiums.
[35:01.680 --> 35:17.700]  I hope archives, thumb drive, October, 2015, the hope X thumb drive, uh, February of 2016, uh, Rob's historical telephone paintings, two of them, uh, May of 2016 is attached receipts and PDFs and all that.
[35:18.420 --> 35:20.940]  Rob, what's up with your, with your paintings?
[35:21.140 --> 35:22.780]  Why aren't these guys getting your paintings?
[35:22.780 --> 35:23.120]  Yeah.
[35:23.260 --> 35:27.520]  I'd like to know that myself because, uh, you know, I, I painted these, I packed them up for transit.
[35:27.940 --> 35:31.920]  And if they're not in the hands of the people that they should be, that means they're still packed up somewhere.
[35:32.180 --> 35:37.580]  Um, which, uh, for those of you not familiar with, uh, packing and storage of artwork is not the best thing for them.
[35:37.680 --> 35:40.520]  So I'm a bit worried myself as the creator of this artwork.
[35:41.060 --> 35:50.000]  And, um, also if, if any of you do get any of my paintings that, uh, that you've pledged for, and there's something wrong with them, like maybe something happened to transit or in storage, let us know.
[35:50.240 --> 35:50.940]  We'll, we'll make it right.
[35:50.940 --> 35:51.760]  Yeah.
[35:52.060 --> 35:56.080]  Uh, this is something that, um, uh, we just see over and over again.
[35:56.320 --> 36:01.040]  Uh, we, um, uh, we have a fundraiser, people pledge for premiums.
[36:01.300 --> 36:05.000]  We bring the premiums in, uh, all the thumb drives have been delivered.
[36:05.060 --> 36:16.260]  Um, and in fact, um, uh, we were told that the station will be able to, since what happened was we said, okay, we'd only afford 10 of these, uh, you know, 10 thumb drives to donate to the radio station.
[36:16.460 --> 36:23.620]  Uh, and the radio station went and, uh, had something like 35 of them pledged for against our specific wishes.
[36:23.780 --> 36:24.820]  They said, no problem.
[36:24.820 --> 36:27.500]  Just give us the thumb drive and we'll make copies.
[36:27.680 --> 36:29.160]  And we did that weeks and weeks ago.
[36:29.620 --> 36:37.320]  And nobody has, I haven't seen a single piece of email saying, oh, we finally got our, our, uh, premium that we, um, uh, we pledged for.
[36:37.800 --> 36:40.060]  It's, it's really, uh, intolerable.
[36:40.280 --> 36:48.780]  And, uh, we pledged, we made a pledge a few weeks ago that we are not going to be offering any more premiums for this show until those premiums are, are fulfilled.
[36:48.780 --> 36:49.920]  It's only fair.
[36:50.040 --> 36:52.040]  Otherwise I feel like we're ripping off our listeners.
[36:52.360 --> 37:04.040]  Now I'm not saying do not pledge to the station, obviously pledge to the station, but understand that you're pledging to the station for the station alone, because that's the only thing I can guarantee that will be delivered to you is a radio signal.
[37:04.620 --> 37:08.160]  Uh, and, uh, hopefully I'll be able to keep making that guarantee for a while.
[37:08.320 --> 37:10.660]  Here's another, um, uh, another listener though.
[37:10.820 --> 37:15.760]  Uh, I've not received my premiums for the donation I gave on February 29th, 2016.
[37:15.760 --> 37:21.640]  I ordered luminaries of the hacker world painting, Rob, another one, uh, hope archives thumb drive.
[37:22.000 --> 37:25.300]  I also did not get some of my other premiums in a previous pledge drive.
[37:25.420 --> 37:32.100]  It did not receive the war on whistleblowers by Robert Greenwald, uh, Jekyll Island, the truth behind the federal reserve and the computer fix it CD.
[37:32.280 --> 37:33.280]  These aren't even our premiums.
[37:33.360 --> 37:34.560]  I have no idea what he's talking about.
[37:35.040 --> 37:35.880]  Uh, William.
[37:36.040 --> 37:41.440]  Yes, this, this goes to show that, um, we, uh, it's not just our show.
[37:41.500 --> 37:44.200]  It's, it's, it's every show at this station.
[37:44.380 --> 37:44.480]  Yeah.
[37:44.560 --> 37:49.460]  And this particular listener is someone who pledged multiple times to support multiple shows on this station.
[37:49.620 --> 38:00.600]  That's, that's the kind of person dedicated to the success of, uh, WBAI that we need the support of, um, you know, and, uh, and this is the person that we're not sending the stuff that, uh, that is owed them.
[38:00.740 --> 38:02.560]  And that's, that's really upsetting on many levels.
[38:02.740 --> 38:03.100]  Emmanuel?
[38:03.320 --> 38:03.840]  Yes, Bernie.
[38:04.000 --> 38:18.220]  Um, these people, I want to thank for their incredible patience for being the most supportive listeners to this radio station, not to, not to just off the hook, but, um, this station would have been off the air by now or not for people like this, who pledged money for it.
[38:18.240 --> 38:30.240]  So it is, it, it, it just, it baffles me why the station management at WBAI continues to let the most supportive listeners down by not delivering the premiums they paid for months ago.
[38:30.480 --> 38:32.360]  I mean, talk about... Oh, years ago, even.
[38:32.420 --> 38:33.040]  Oh, years ago.
[38:33.080 --> 38:33.200]  Yeah.
[38:33.420 --> 38:36.260]  Talk about, um, signing your own epitaph.
[38:36.760 --> 38:42.800]  This station management, I believe... It's signing our epitaph too, not, not, it's, it's everybody here and people work so hard around here.
[38:42.960 --> 38:48.160]  You know, it's, it's, it's important that we, we, we pull together and we're trying as hard as we can.
[38:48.320 --> 38:49.180]  We're delivering the premiums.
[38:49.280 --> 38:51.880]  We're, we're, we're helping out in whatever way we can.
[38:52.320 --> 39:04.340]  You know, I'm thinking the only way, the only way we can offer premiums in the, in the future is if we do the whole process ourselves, where we have a phone number, we have somebody take the pledge, we have somebody fulfill the premium and mail it out and then give the money to the radio station.
[39:04.420 --> 39:05.860]  That might be the only way We can pull this off.
[39:05.880 --> 39:06.880]  In the past, they wouldn't let us do that.
[39:06.880 --> 39:14.460]  In the past, what we've done is we've said, okay, since you guys can't mail things out for some reason, give us the names and we'll mail it out.
[39:14.560 --> 39:15.940]  And there's resistance to that.
[39:16.160 --> 39:17.520]  They didn't want to give us the names.
[39:17.920 --> 39:20.480]  So, you know, I'm out of options.
[39:20.480 --> 39:21.320]  I'm out of answers.
[39:21.860 --> 39:23.360]  So we have to do something.
[39:23.820 --> 39:31.940]  But right now, the only thing we can do during pledge drives, and this is one of those weeks where there is not a pledge drive, is to tell people just to pledge for the radio station.
[39:31.940 --> 39:38.820]  You can always go to give to WBAI.org and pledge at any time, too, just for the radio station.
[39:38.940 --> 39:40.240]  But it works both ways, Bernie.
[39:40.540 --> 39:43.240]  It's not just a question of people not getting their premiums.
[39:43.240 --> 39:46.040]  Sometimes the station doesn't even take the pledge.
[39:46.960 --> 39:53.160]  We got an email from Kenneth saying he called the 516 number with a credit card.
[39:53.160 --> 39:56.780]  As of August 19th, my account has not been debited.
[39:56.920 --> 39:59.020]  And it was weeks before that that he had made the pledge.
[39:59.020 --> 40:02.320]  No wonder WBAI has problems if it cannot collect money that was pledged.
[40:02.500 --> 40:04.440]  Does WBAI actually want to survive?
[40:04.620 --> 40:07.880]  Well, I can say from the people here at Off the Hook, we want to survive.
[40:07.900 --> 40:09.840]  We want this place to stay here.
[40:10.040 --> 40:12.620]  And we're willing to do whatever it takes to make that happen.
[40:13.460 --> 40:17.180]  But, you know, there's only so much of this any of us can take.
[40:17.380 --> 40:23.100]  And it's important that we unite, that we try and fix the situation.
[40:23.360 --> 40:27.100]  Now, not having a phone, that's something that really annoys the hell out of me.
[40:27.100 --> 40:32.560]  So, we're going to take some phone calls now, even without a phone line, because we're hackers and that's the kind of thing we do.
[40:33.060 --> 40:37.460]  Phone number, area code 331-223-9224.
[40:37.460 --> 40:40.920]  That's 331-223-WBAI.
[40:41.640 --> 40:44.160]  Kyle, I believe we've ironed out the kinks.
[40:44.460 --> 40:49.240]  Well, I admittedly, I thought my phone was unmuted, but it was muted.
[40:49.240 --> 40:51.020]  So, that's why our test was not working.
[40:51.460 --> 40:52.940]  That was entirely my fault.
[40:52.940 --> 40:53.920]  Check the mute button.
[40:53.920 --> 40:58.420]  Well, I looked at it, I glanced at it, and unmute somehow, to me, meant mute.
[40:59.320 --> 41:03.340]  No, unmute meant it was unmuted, meaning, no, that means it is muted.
[41:04.200 --> 41:05.880]  You know, you hear this?
[41:06.040 --> 41:06.540]  You hear this?
[41:06.620 --> 41:08.320]  This is the sound of my phone on vibrate.
[41:09.380 --> 41:12.500]  Okay, I just put it in vibrate mode, and it's ringing.
[41:12.860 --> 41:13.920]  Here's a call from New Jersey.
[41:14.060 --> 41:14.860]  Let's take this phone call.
[41:15.260 --> 41:16.140]  Hello, New Jersey.
[41:16.140 --> 41:17.000]  You're on the air.
[41:18.340 --> 41:19.060]  Oh, hi.
[41:19.860 --> 41:21.100]  Just a couple of quick things.
[41:21.500 --> 41:23.940]  One, turned on the program late tonight.
[41:24.300 --> 41:26.200]  Is that Bernie in New York?
[41:26.640 --> 41:27.740]  Bernie is in New York.
[41:27.840 --> 41:31.660]  And also, let me just point out to our listeners that beeping noise you hear is another call coming in.
[41:31.780 --> 41:33.240]  We can't turn that off.
[41:33.440 --> 41:35.400]  I don't think there's a way on a cell phone to turn that off.
[41:35.580 --> 41:36.900]  So, we're just going to...
[41:36.900 --> 41:42.140]  Can we all agree that the beeping is now a normal part of our lives, and we're just going to hear the beeping all the damn time?
[41:42.840 --> 41:45.320]  So, yes, Bernie, can you confirm you are, in fact, in New York?
[41:45.320 --> 41:46.300]  Yes, thank you, caller.
[41:46.560 --> 41:50.720]  My voice probably sounds a little bit different on a direct microphone in this...
[41:51.660 --> 41:54.540]  It's supposed to be a studio here, but it doesn't look like a studio.
[41:55.280 --> 41:57.740]  The other thing I wanted to ask is, where's Mike?
[42:00.180 --> 42:01.540]  Well, things change.
[42:01.880 --> 42:05.320]  Mike is no longer on this show, but he'll be appearing occasionally.
[42:05.700 --> 42:07.020]  He's on special assignment.
[42:07.340 --> 42:07.640]  Yeah.
[42:08.000 --> 42:12.100]  I did have lunch with Mike this past weekend, so he does still exist.
[42:12.300 --> 42:15.040]  Yes, and he was at the conference, and we see him...
[42:15.420 --> 42:16.080]  Now and then.
[42:16.500 --> 42:17.840]  We have another call coming in, though.
[42:18.480 --> 42:19.440]  Anything else you wanted to say?
[42:20.080 --> 42:21.320]  I wanted to ask you something.
[42:21.540 --> 42:21.660]  Quickly.
[42:21.860 --> 42:28.640]  Last week, right before your show started, I heard on, like, NPR that the NSA was hacked.
[42:28.920 --> 42:30.540]  So, I quickly turned you on.
[42:30.600 --> 42:31.720]  I didn't hear anything about it.
[42:31.800 --> 42:33.860]  I haven't heard anything about it all week.
[42:34.620 --> 42:39.140]  Well, if we devoted attention to everybody that got hacked in any week, we'd never get off the air.
[42:39.700 --> 42:44.160]  Yeah, the NSA, there is a hack being reported in the media.
[42:44.720 --> 42:46.560]  Is there anything special we want to say about it?
[42:46.940 --> 42:54.360]  I'd heard or read of news media reports that their website was down for a day or so, which is hugely embarrassing.
[42:54.360 --> 43:02.100]  But more importantly, there's a whole library of hacking tools, allegedly developed by the NSA.
[43:02.460 --> 43:03.920]  Zero-day exploits.
[43:04.060 --> 43:04.220]  Yeah.
[43:04.680 --> 43:07.740]  Serious, serious military-grade hacks.
[43:07.920 --> 43:16.820]  A lot of this, I think, came from their cozy relationship with people like Microsoft and so on, who would funnel them exploits before they were announced to anybody else and stuff like that.
[43:16.820 --> 43:18.580]  I read a couple articles about this.
[43:18.720 --> 43:23.380]  But basically, as you can imagine, it's hard to get information about this.
[43:23.480 --> 43:25.660]  So we'd like to get anything you have.
[43:25.800 --> 43:26.640]  Please send us some stuff.
[43:26.800 --> 43:28.520]  Yeah, if you have the NSA file, send those to us as well.
[43:28.680 --> 43:32.480]  Because the thing is, anybody who is online, anybody accessible, is vulnerable.
[43:32.780 --> 43:37.360]  And NSA may think they're above all of this, but nobody is.
[43:37.500 --> 43:39.820]  That's the thing that we've been saying for many, many years now.
[43:39.940 --> 43:40.960]  Hey, we have another phone call.
[43:41.200 --> 43:41.660]  Good evening.
[43:41.780 --> 43:42.580]  You're on Off the Hook.
[43:43.380 --> 43:44.300]  Hi, how are you doing?
[43:44.460 --> 43:44.860]  Good, how are you?
[43:45.740 --> 43:46.720]  Okay, you know what?
[43:46.820 --> 43:55.520]  I don't know how many HOPE conferences I've been to, but I want to tell you, a couple of things that bothered me, if you don't mind some criticism.
[43:55.660 --> 43:56.620]  No, please, go right ahead.
[43:57.480 --> 43:57.920]  All right.
[43:58.200 --> 44:03.880]  Why is it every time I go, you have the Club Mate and it's warm?
[44:04.720 --> 44:05.580]  Oh, wow.
[44:05.740 --> 44:07.100]  Okay, you know what, Kyle?
[44:07.260 --> 44:12.720]  I'm going to hand this one over to you because this is something that both of us were tormented with for the entire weekend.
[44:12.720 --> 44:13.360]  We totally agree.
[44:13.360 --> 44:14.860]  We agree with your assessment.
[44:15.140 --> 44:16.300]  It's frustrating.
[44:16.560 --> 44:20.460]  We bought two freezers to fix this situation.
[44:20.460 --> 44:21.520]  Look, what happened?
[44:21.740 --> 44:24.560]  This is an ongoing problem project.
[44:24.560 --> 44:25.500]  It's not a problem.
[44:25.520 --> 44:26.140]  It's a project.
[44:26.140 --> 44:26.880]  It's a challenge.
[44:27.000 --> 44:27.440]  It's a puzzle.
[44:27.860 --> 44:32.180]  The point is we really, we regret anybody who got warm soda.
[44:32.360 --> 44:34.220]  We do not want to offer warm soda.
[44:35.620 --> 44:46.940]  We invested in some chest freezers, but it stems from us having borrowed beverage freezers in the past that have convection.
[44:46.940 --> 44:48.780]  Chest freezers don't have convection.
[44:49.340 --> 44:59.580]  And really what we found is that the large chest freezer that we bought, it doesn't cool fast enough for the kind of replenishment those Mate sales generate, the replenishment needs.
[44:59.680 --> 45:02.700]  In other words, we couldn't fill it and cool stuff fast enough.
[45:02.700 --> 45:15.360]  So what we're looking at, and that was with it at a low freezer setting, but there's a lot of really interesting hacks for freezers in both kitchen settings, home settings, and off-grid settings.
[45:15.360 --> 45:20.520]  So what we're actually doing right now is modifying those chest freezers with what is called a PID.
[45:20.840 --> 45:24.720]  It's a temperature controller used in industrial controls and stuff.
[45:24.720 --> 45:32.560]  And basically, I'm going to be splicing a solid state relay into those, and we'll have very, very precise temperature settings.
[45:32.600 --> 45:37.260]  So we'll be able to keep stuff just above freezing and have it cooled in advance overnight.
[45:37.260 --> 45:40.560]  But that's not going to be for until next conference.
[45:40.660 --> 45:42.340]  So we're on top of it, sir.
[45:43.240 --> 45:46.860]  Can I give you a suggestion, an old-fashioned hack?
[45:47.100 --> 45:47.340]  Okay.
[45:47.940 --> 45:48.380]  Ice cubes?
[45:48.420 --> 45:49.640]  Because we found out about those.
[45:51.780 --> 45:53.100]  We had ice cubes.
[45:53.520 --> 46:03.220]  You wouldn't believe how hard it was to find ice cubes, but we basically spent a good part of the conference wandering around the city looking for bags of ice, and that actually did work on the second floor.
[46:03.380 --> 46:03.760]  That's true.
[46:03.760 --> 46:04.900]  We didn't have that for the 18th floor.
[46:05.060 --> 46:06.880]  I think some people went to the hotel and gathered ice.
[46:07.020 --> 46:07.700]  What about dry ice?
[46:08.260 --> 46:08.780]  That's also...
[46:08.780 --> 46:14.560]  You know, we were thinking of all sorts of things, but we had a conference to run, and keeping soda cold was not something I thought was going to be such a challenge.
[46:14.820 --> 46:19.700]  But a lot of people came up to us and said, they like it European style, which means warm.
[46:20.080 --> 46:20.120]  Right.
[46:20.220 --> 46:23.460]  And I thought that was just an amazing, amazing way of adaptation.
[46:24.020 --> 46:26.120]  Can I give me two more comments?
[46:26.240 --> 46:26.720]  Please, go ahead.
[46:27.680 --> 46:28.020]  Okay.
[46:28.920 --> 46:32.800]  The previous conference, you had two types of club monte.
[46:33.720 --> 46:35.540]  Is this all going to be monte-related?
[46:35.900 --> 46:36.080]  Okay.
[46:36.800 --> 46:38.640]  Yeah, we had winter edition.
[46:39.280 --> 46:40.980]  We didn't have winter edition this time.
[46:41.820 --> 46:44.560]  This is the first complaint I've heard that we didn't have winter edition.
[46:45.540 --> 46:53.540]  And then the last thing is, I honestly, I didn't go to the third day, the Sunday, because there was just nothing of interest.
[46:53.780 --> 46:56.980]  Everything seemed to have to do with coding and stuff.
[46:57.220 --> 46:58.320]  I'm not a coder.
[46:58.320 --> 47:06.640]  I'm a ham radio operator, and I go for just the more offbeat kind of stuff, like Steve Rambam and stuff like that.
[47:07.020 --> 47:10.440]  And Sunday was just a little bit just too technical.
[47:10.440 --> 47:13.220]  Well, interesting you should say that.
[47:13.340 --> 47:18.660]  Bernie has just picked up the schedule, which we have a copy of here, and he's perusing Sunday's selection.
[47:18.900 --> 47:20.540]  Do you see anything that might...
[47:20.540 --> 47:24.440]  Caller, I really appreciate you coming to the Hope Conference, but I'm looking at Sunday's schedule here.
[47:24.560 --> 47:39.300]  We had everything from hackers or whistleblowers to practical solidarity with the Courage Foundation, Link NYC spy stations, Iridium satellite hacking, freedom and privacy in our lives, our government, our schools.
[47:40.440 --> 47:41.860]  Yeah, none of that has anything to do with coding.
[47:42.080 --> 47:45.920]  This is hacking housing, how to build a house for $10,000, use your shipping container.
[47:46.240 --> 47:46.840]  That was a great talk.
[47:47.140 --> 47:47.320]  That was fantastic.
[47:47.560 --> 47:48.880]  We could have filled the biggest room.
[47:48.980 --> 47:50.040]  There were so many people showed up.
[47:50.120 --> 47:51.220]  And what are you going to say, Rob?
[47:51.280 --> 47:52.360]  There's so many good talks Sunday.
[47:52.560 --> 47:59.140]  Yeah, and that's not even counting the talks that were in the fourth track that are not on the schedule, and all the activities on the mezzanine.
[47:59.580 --> 48:00.640]  You're into ham radio?
[48:00.780 --> 48:04.160]  There was the ham radio set up up on Pentop.
[48:04.280 --> 48:04.400]  All three days.
[48:08.360 --> 48:10.900]  A thousand other people who might have liked to talk to you that day, but you weren't around.
[48:11.060 --> 48:12.480]  Yeah, we try to mix it up.
[48:12.580 --> 48:14.740]  We try to have a variety of things for every day.
[48:14.900 --> 48:15.700]  I know you do.
[48:16.160 --> 48:17.020]  I know you do.
[48:17.100 --> 48:17.780]  I love you guys.
[48:17.900 --> 48:18.240]  All right.
[48:18.300 --> 48:20.140]  Well, thanks so much for coming and for calling.
[48:20.380 --> 48:20.940]  We love you, too.
[48:21.060 --> 48:23.720]  And we'll see you in two years and hopefully hear from you before then.
[48:24.300 --> 48:25.940]  Again, our phone number is...
[48:25.940 --> 48:27.180]  I can't remember this phone.
[48:27.260 --> 48:28.920]  You know, I was trying to write down the phone number before.
[48:29.040 --> 48:30.520]  I realized I didn't have it anywhere.
[48:30.640 --> 48:34.360]  So I had to go onto my phone and find it from my logs there.
[48:34.360 --> 48:36.300]  And then I had to write it down.
[48:36.360 --> 48:40.920]  And the only pen we have here is this fluorescent yellow thing that you can't see.
[48:41.180 --> 48:41.860]  I have a pen.
[48:41.920 --> 48:43.340]  And here's my phone vibrating again.
[48:43.440 --> 48:44.660]  No, I already have the phone number.
[48:44.760 --> 48:45.380]  It's too late now.
[48:45.800 --> 48:46.620]  It's 331.
[48:46.660 --> 48:47.120]  It's already...
[48:47.120 --> 48:47.580]  Someone's calling.
[48:47.760 --> 48:51.820]  331-223-9224.
[48:52.180 --> 48:52.580]  Okay.
[48:53.000 --> 48:56.360]  And here's a call from maybe Brooklyn or one of the boroughs.
[48:56.580 --> 48:57.940]  Hello, you're on the radio.
[48:59.360 --> 49:00.160]  Speak up, please.
[49:02.180 --> 49:03.520]  Oh, they're not talking.
[49:04.360 --> 49:04.660]  Okay.
[49:04.820 --> 49:05.780]  I'm doing everything right.
[49:05.900 --> 49:06.120]  Yeah.
[49:06.340 --> 49:07.060]  But they're not talking.
[49:07.300 --> 49:07.460]  Nope.
[49:07.760 --> 49:07.920]  Okay.
[49:08.000 --> 49:08.300]  I'm sorry.
[49:08.500 --> 49:09.480]  Caller, you have to talk.
[49:09.640 --> 49:10.800]  That's part of the rules here.
[49:11.020 --> 49:11.140]  Yeah.
[49:12.920 --> 49:16.740]  331-223-9224 is our telephone number.
[49:17.620 --> 49:20.760]  That's 331-223-WBAI.
[49:22.520 --> 49:25.380]  And here's a phone call coming from Manhattan.
[49:25.800 --> 49:26.160]  Good evening.
[49:26.320 --> 49:27.140]  You're on Off the Hook.
[49:28.040 --> 49:28.800]  Hey, guys.
[49:30.000 --> 49:30.880]  It's Delcini.
[49:31.440 --> 49:32.280]  Hey, how you doing?
[49:32.420 --> 49:32.920]  Hey, Delcini.
[49:33.000 --> 49:33.660]  What's going on?
[49:34.220 --> 49:34.940]  What's up?
[49:37.080 --> 49:38.320]  I have a comment.
[49:38.920 --> 49:39.700]  Go right ahead.
[49:39.780 --> 49:41.300]  That's what this phone line is for.
[49:41.420 --> 49:41.780]  Comments.
[49:42.720 --> 49:43.100]  Okay.
[49:44.500 --> 49:53.340]  So regarding that one hack and the NSA website being down for a day, that was actually a rumor because they had something.
[49:53.640 --> 49:58.080]  They didn't have their URL forwarding set up the right way.
[49:58.080 --> 50:01.020]  So if you type www, it worked.
[50:01.160 --> 50:03.840]  But if you just went to the straight URL, it didn't work.
[50:04.880 --> 50:05.500]  Got it.
[50:05.720 --> 50:06.620]  Thank you for that detail.
[50:06.820 --> 50:07.100]  Interesting.
[50:07.300 --> 50:07.540]  Okay.
[50:08.360 --> 50:09.860]  And good job on the videos.
[50:09.860 --> 50:11.400]  I think that's fantastic.
[50:11.400 --> 50:12.540]  It's a really big job.
[50:13.140 --> 50:15.640]  It feels so good to be finished with it.
[50:16.100 --> 50:17.080]  It really does.
[50:17.340 --> 50:17.820]  Wouldn't believe.
[50:18.060 --> 50:18.180]  Yeah.
[50:18.420 --> 50:21.780]  But as Kai was alluding to just a moment ago, there were so many good talks.
[50:21.900 --> 50:25.140]  And one of the advantages of putting together all the videos is we get to see so many of them.
[50:25.760 --> 50:31.780]  And sometimes our workflow is interrupted because the talks were so interesting, we couldn't hit stop.
[50:32.040 --> 50:32.260]  Yeah.
[50:32.380 --> 50:33.460]  We wanted to see the whole thing.
[50:33.540 --> 50:34.920]  Usually we just watch the beginning and the end.
[50:35.160 --> 50:36.560]  I think it's really great.
[50:36.560 --> 50:39.540]  And I'm going to enjoy them in the weeks coming up.
[50:39.840 --> 50:40.120]  Yes.
[50:40.540 --> 50:40.740]  Okay.
[50:40.880 --> 50:42.200]  Well, thanks for that feedback.
[50:42.660 --> 50:43.240]  Thanks, Delphina.
[50:43.320 --> 50:45.880]  Let's move on to an unknown call.
[50:46.020 --> 50:50.420]  This person knows how to block their caller ID or they're calling from a foreign country.
[50:50.580 --> 50:51.420]  Which is it, caller?
[50:52.340 --> 50:55.200]  Oh, well, I'm not that promising, just blocking caller ID.
[50:55.360 --> 50:57.840]  You're blocking caller ID because my phone says unknown.
[50:59.080 --> 50:59.360]  Okay.
[51:00.460 --> 51:01.540]  Can you speak up, though?
[51:01.580 --> 51:03.380]  Because you're coming in through kind of low.
[51:04.320 --> 51:04.640]  Oh, yes.
[51:04.720 --> 51:06.140]  I take out speaker, lost my headset.
[51:06.360 --> 51:10.760]  Anyways, I'm trying to find myself a semi-long-time listener, hopefully coming through.
[51:11.340 --> 51:12.300]  Yes, you're coming through fine.
[51:12.480 --> 51:14.640]  I just wanted to say thanks to everybody at the show.
[51:14.640 --> 51:16.400]  And amazing that Bernie's on site.
[51:16.560 --> 51:20.920]  Hopefully this isn't one of the last shows with all this, like, shuffling going on and everything.
[51:20.920 --> 51:24.420]  I wanted to try to get in here just under the wire, if that were the case.
[51:26.300 --> 51:27.840]  Any other feedback, sir?
[51:29.420 --> 51:33.180]  After the feedback, yeah, I'm just hoping that something happens.
[51:33.500 --> 51:43.860]  I mean, if you have so many dedicated members and supporters of the station and then, you know, the ongoing premium stuff, not to bring it down, but it's like that type of stuff going on.
[51:43.960 --> 51:51.800]  The personal computer show, like the soft boot with the web service, how are they going to put that up if they don't have existing services under Parker Logistics?
[51:52.060 --> 51:52.860]  And it's just like...
[51:52.860 --> 51:53.200]  Yeah.
[51:53.540 --> 51:54.260]  It's very concerning.
[51:54.260 --> 51:55.200]  I hope it works out.
[51:55.200 --> 52:03.240]  It's frustrating, but we feel the least we can do is let our listeners know what's going on and to try and work this out so that we keep the station on the air.
[52:04.720 --> 52:05.560]  Absolutely, yeah.
[52:06.220 --> 52:07.640]  We can't get anywhere else, right?
[52:08.360 --> 52:08.960]  That's true.
[52:09.100 --> 52:12.300]  It's a very rare and unique establishment.
[52:13.220 --> 52:14.500]  Thanks for that call.
[52:16.380 --> 52:22.780]  I should mention that if you're interested in helping out, we do need volunteers at this station.
[52:22.920 --> 52:28.000]  And if you go to WBAI.org, hit the Contact Us page, there is a link there to email the volunteer coordinator.
[52:28.560 --> 52:33.040]  And if you get in touch, you can maybe be one of the people who comes over here.
[52:33.040 --> 52:37.540]  And it helps us through all this, helps us sort through this backlog and everything else that we've got going on here.
[52:38.280 --> 52:40.200]  There's also a link there for donation support.
[52:41.100 --> 52:45.340]  So if you're still waiting on one of our premiums, be sure to let us know.
[52:45.420 --> 52:50.220]  But you could also get in touch directly with donation support and see if that does anything for you.
[52:50.560 --> 52:57.700]  And that number on the website for donation support is area code 347-529-6962.
[52:57.820 --> 53:01.560]  We'd appreciate you letting us know if you hear back from anyone when you call that number.
[53:01.600 --> 53:02.680]  I've never heard that number before.
[53:02.680 --> 53:04.060]  That's a special number for...
[53:04.060 --> 53:04.840]  They keep changing things around.
[53:04.980 --> 53:05.900]  We're reading it off the website.
[53:06.180 --> 53:06.580]  Interesting.
[53:06.960 --> 53:11.120]  347-529-6962 for if you haven't gotten your premium yet.
[53:11.280 --> 53:16.380]  Well, we have a call from New Jersey coming in right now to 331-223-9224.
[53:16.600 --> 53:18.140]  Yeah, more phone numbers than ever, folks.
[53:18.280 --> 53:19.040]  Take away our phones.
[53:19.360 --> 53:20.300]  We're going to come right back.
[53:20.300 --> 53:20.740]  Good evening.
[53:20.860 --> 53:21.800]  You're on Off the Hook.
[53:22.980 --> 53:23.380]  Hi.
[53:23.600 --> 53:24.360]  Hi, what's on your mind?
[53:24.360 --> 53:26.260]  The Hope Show was great.
[53:26.800 --> 53:32.420]  However, it's quite difficult to attend three sessions at a time.
[53:32.560 --> 53:34.760]  It is difficult to attend three sessions at a time.
[53:34.760 --> 53:36.800]  We have three tracks that go on simultaneously.
[53:37.900 --> 53:42.200]  There's nothing we can do about that other than reduce the amount of content we have.
[53:42.780 --> 53:46.360]  Yeah, but when will you put the audio online?
[53:46.620 --> 53:48.200]  The audio is online right now.
[53:48.260 --> 53:52.580]  In fact, if you go to Hope.net, you should see a button next to every talk that has audio.
[53:53.280 --> 53:53.640]  Great.
[53:54.100 --> 53:55.260]  Okay, thank you, man.
[53:55.400 --> 53:55.660]  All right.
[53:56.180 --> 54:02.920]  It's good to make somebody happy and actually answer a question with a positive statement that, wow, we can do this, and it's done, and it's finished.
[54:03.100 --> 54:05.820]  Kyle, I have a question about the audio.
[54:06.040 --> 54:08.580]  What are the bit rates available for the audio files?
[54:08.680 --> 54:09.600]  Oh, you're asking, Kyle.
[54:09.720 --> 54:10.200]  I did the audio.
[54:10.300 --> 54:10.660]  Oh, you did?
[54:10.720 --> 54:10.940]  I'm sorry.
[54:11.140 --> 54:12.580]  He could tell you...
[54:12.580 --> 54:14.640]  It's 44 mega...
[54:14.640 --> 54:15.120]  Kilohertz.
[54:15.420 --> 54:15.780]  Mbps.
[54:16.700 --> 54:17.400]  That would be fast.
[54:17.400 --> 54:18.100]  That's the frequency.
[54:18.360 --> 54:18.980]  Yeah, 128.
[54:18.980 --> 54:23.120]  128, I'm sorry, 128 kbps at 44.1, I believe.
[54:23.260 --> 54:24.460]  And that's the only speed?
[54:24.460 --> 54:28.100]  Because a lot of people want low, like 16 kilobit per second.
[54:28.300 --> 54:28.940]  It's really portable.
[54:29.020 --> 54:30.380]  A lot of people really want 16...
[54:30.380 --> 54:30.800]  You know what?
[54:31.020 --> 54:42.280]  If anybody has a conversion program that we had one that worked and then stopped working, but if there's something that will preserve the ID3 tags and not add extraneous things, let us know what it is.
[54:42.380 --> 54:42.780]  We'll do it.
[54:43.060 --> 54:43.380]  64.
[54:43.560 --> 54:45.220]  Let's make it telephone bit right here.
[54:45.340 --> 54:45.460]  Okay, that's fine.
[54:45.620 --> 54:45.940]  64.
[54:46.280 --> 54:48.140]  All right, but somebody has to do it, and it's not going to be me.
[54:48.140 --> 54:48.420]  Okay.
[54:48.420 --> 54:54.700]  Also, you're free to use a free utility like FFmpeg or Audacity or anything else to convert this to whatever bit rate you like.
[54:55.040 --> 54:57.760]  That's true, but if they can't download it, then it's going to be difficult.
[54:57.920 --> 54:59.800]  Spread it far and wide, though, please.
[55:00.040 --> 55:00.160]  Yes.
[55:00.160 --> 55:04.760]  We would love to get the information out and make everyone happy who wants to listen to it.
[55:04.920 --> 55:07.160]  Okay, we are out of time of people calling in.
[55:07.160 --> 55:10.780]  Sorry, we can't take any more phone calls, but thanks for those of you who did call in.
[55:11.060 --> 55:20.860]  Our email address, O-T-H at 2600.com, and we will see you maybe next week or maybe after that.
[55:21.420 --> 55:27.260]  Stay tuned for what might be the penultimate episode of the Personal Computer Show.
[55:28.320 --> 55:29.640]  Let's hope it doesn't come to that.
[55:30.520 --> 55:31.840]  It's Emmanuel for Off the Hook.
[55:32.020 --> 55:32.160]  Good night.
[55:32.840 --> 55:34.460]  Off the far eye.
[55:34.740 --> 55:35.160]  No, no, no.
[55:35.540 --> 55:37.460]  Tonight is your answer.
[55:38.660 --> 55:42.600]  Until the philosophy which all won race...
[57:45.990 --> 57:48.110]  All right.
[58:19.060 --> 58:20.360]  Sing ya, sunshine.
[59:03.090 --> 59:04.910]  Bye-bye.
[59:05.090 --> 59:05.710]  Bye-bye.
[59:06.170 --> 59:08.070]  Bye-bye.
[01:00:14.250 --> 01:00:16.370]  Bye-bye.
[01:00:24.150 --> 01:00:25.110]  A little pause...