[00:00.000 --> 00:06.520]  Examine the impact of the organization's internal politics and COINTELPRO political repression.
[00:06.800 --> 00:11.320]  Join us on Wednesday, January 25th at 7 p.m.
[00:11.660 --> 00:18.260]  at the Blue Stocking Bookstore, 172 Allen Street, in the Lower East Side section of Manhattan.
[00:18.800 --> 00:25.020]  For further details, call 347-709-2264.
[00:31.520 --> 00:36.200]  And you are listening to the Voice of the Resistance, WBAI New York.
[00:36.540 --> 00:39.860]  The time is just about 8 o'clock.
[00:40.480 --> 00:41.820]  It's time for Off the Hook.
[01:06.650 --> 01:09.110]  I hope that's understood one day, let me know.
[02:36.450 --> 02:37.650]  Off the Hook.
[02:37.890 --> 02:41.350]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening.
[02:42.010 --> 02:44.270]  Joined tonight by Rob T.
[02:44.390 --> 02:44.830]  Firefly.
[02:45.130 --> 02:45.570]  Good evening.
[02:45.790 --> 02:46.530]  Hang on a second.
[02:46.850 --> 02:47.870]  Somebody pushed the wrong button.
[02:48.150 --> 02:48.570]  There you go.
[02:48.670 --> 02:49.030]  Try it now.
[02:49.150 --> 02:49.810]  That's the wrong button.
[02:49.930 --> 02:50.270]  Good evening.
[02:50.330 --> 02:50.950]  Sorry about that.
[02:51.770 --> 02:54.030]  And Kyle over on the other side of the studio.
[02:54.230 --> 02:55.230]  Hey, I'm over here.
[02:55.590 --> 02:56.290]  Pretty far away.
[02:56.290 --> 02:58.510]  Yeah, you've got to go down two trenches.
[02:58.810 --> 03:01.110]  Yeah, it's massive in here.
[03:01.530 --> 03:02.730]  We have Bernie S.
[03:02.930 --> 03:03.750]  Bernie, are you there?
[03:04.370 --> 03:07.470]  Yes, greetings from Philadelphia, where Trump is coming tomorrow.
[03:07.770 --> 03:13.150]  Okay, you're the first one that said the T word, so you have to pay for something later.
[03:13.830 --> 03:24.170]  As you might be able to hear in the background, we have the train board at Penn Station, which apparently no longer exists.
[03:24.290 --> 03:25.830]  What do you know about this, Rob?
[03:26.730 --> 03:31.710]  The train board on the, I think it's the Amtrak section, which has stuck it out.
[03:31.850 --> 03:43.630]  A lot of other areas of Penn Station have gotten rid of the old analog, manually flipping, mechanically flipping signs in favor of LCD displays, but not the Amtrak area until very recently, I think this week.
[03:43.790 --> 03:50.110]  That big, massive board that told you were not only Amtrak, but New Jersey Transit as well, that was a major part of Penn Station.
[03:50.270 --> 03:51.190]  What did they replace it with?
[03:51.670 --> 03:55.210]  Apparently, they're replacing it with flat panels like everything else.
[03:55.210 --> 03:55.950]  Oh, boy.
[03:56.170 --> 04:00.210]  And that noise, we no longer hear that noise of all the letters flapping.
[04:00.390 --> 04:02.670]  I've always wanted to know, how did that work?
[04:02.850 --> 04:03.550]  How in the world?
[04:03.670 --> 04:04.710]  What kind of system was that?
[04:04.790 --> 04:06.690]  Bernie, sounds like something you'd know a lot about.
[04:06.690 --> 04:08.390]  You remember those clocks?
[04:08.990 --> 04:16.170]  Like, typically they were in like a clock radio before LED displays, where these little flip cards would flip over and show the digits?
[04:16.370 --> 04:16.490]  Yes.
[04:16.490 --> 04:20.990]  It was just like that, but there was one for every letter of the alphabet and every memory.
[04:21.130 --> 04:24.330]  That's why it took so long for those things to flip around to get to the right character.
[04:24.570 --> 04:24.830]  Uh-huh.
[04:24.910 --> 04:25.830]  But that's basically it.
[04:25.870 --> 04:27.370]  They were like a little mini Rolodex.
[04:27.570 --> 04:32.490]  And by the way, Penn Station did away with their Rolodex-type sign several years ago.
[04:32.490 --> 04:42.570]  I think it was maybe even 10 years ago, but they replaced it with one that looked like that, but it was electronic, but it looked like sort of segmented.
[04:42.790 --> 04:48.870]  But that's the one they're getting rid of, and they're going to replace it with 40 different screens around the station.
[04:49.210 --> 04:52.350]  So there won't be one big, giant one anymore, unfortunately.
[04:52.630 --> 05:02.390]  And it also means that everybody won't gather together to stare at the sign, to figure out when their track is going to be announced, so they can be the first one to dash down the staircase and get on the train.
[05:02.490 --> 05:03.650]  Yeah, it was great.
[05:03.650 --> 05:10.410]  Watching the human circus, people would just like watch, and they'd be in anticipation, and then they'd race for the steps.
[05:10.710 --> 05:11.090]  Uh-huh.
[05:11.490 --> 05:15.190]  And I had figured out a way to bypass most of the system.
[05:15.210 --> 05:22.330]  Usually the way you're supposed to do it, you see your track get announced, and then you wait online and have somebody check your ticket before you go down the escalator or staircase.
[05:22.870 --> 05:26.970]  But there's a level below that, and there's also a little screen below that.
[05:26.970 --> 05:39.250]  So if you just stood there with a couple of other people who knew this trick, you could figure out where the track was from that level and bypass the check and be on the track sometimes even before the train arrived, which was pretty cool.
[05:39.390 --> 05:42.790]  Then some idiot decided to print that on the Internet, and the whole thing got shut down.
[05:44.250 --> 05:45.610]  Isn't that always the way?
[05:46.190 --> 05:49.510]  But what we have in the background actually is really cool.
[05:49.710 --> 05:51.530]  Thanks, Jens, for showing this to us.
[05:52.550 --> 06:04.510]  Somebody with a lot of time on their hands put together a replica of the actual train schedule, and you can pick any station, but if you pick Penn Station, obviously you'll get a lot of updates.
[06:04.830 --> 06:14.550]  And it'll basically show you what that screen used to look like, and when a train arrives or departs or is announced, you will hear and see the flapping letters.
[06:14.550 --> 06:22.430]  The website is called DixielandSoftware.net, and you might want to write this down because there's a lot of things to write down.
[06:23.850 --> 06:25.770]  DixielandSoftware.net, spelled as it sounds.
[06:26.010 --> 06:27.750]  Oh, and we have an update.
[06:27.930 --> 06:35.210]  The Keystone, scheduled time 8-12, train number 654 to New York.
[06:35.990 --> 06:37.490]  Well, it's just being announced, I guess.
[06:37.650 --> 06:40.690]  And the Acela to Washington is boarding right now, 8-13.
[06:41.170 --> 06:42.090]  Wait, that's my train.
[06:42.130 --> 06:42.570]  I've got to go here.
[06:42.570 --> 06:43.190]  You better hurry.
[06:44.550 --> 06:52.510]  Okay, so DixielandSoftware.net, slash Amtrak, capital A, not sure if that matters, slash Solari, which I think is the name of this thing, right?
[06:52.690 --> 06:54.610]  S-O-L-A-I... I'm sorry.
[06:54.770 --> 07:00.410]  S-O-L-A-R-I, slash stations.php.
[07:01.510 --> 07:02.650]  And here's where it gets good.
[07:02.830 --> 07:15.770]  Question mark, data equals, all caps, again, I don't know if it matters, N-Y-P, and sign T-Z equals E-T, again, all caps for the E-T.
[07:16.390 --> 07:16.550]  And what that's...
[07:16.550 --> 07:17.250]  We're going to email us.
[07:17.370 --> 07:19.830]  That's, yeah, or you can email us and we'll write that for you.
[07:19.910 --> 07:26.250]  But basically, data equals N-Y-P, obviously New York, Penn Station, T-Z equals E-T, time zone, Eastern time.
[07:27.130 --> 07:27.790]  Really cool.
[07:28.050 --> 07:32.730]  One of many cool things that are out there that have absolutely nothing to do with the T-word.
[07:33.370 --> 07:34.970]  It's a little bit familiar.
[07:35.170 --> 07:39.090]  It sounds a little bit like an old switch, like an electromechanical switch.
[07:39.310 --> 07:40.270]  I'm glad you said that.
[07:40.410 --> 07:42.010]  Like a number one crossbar or something?
[07:42.110 --> 07:43.030]  Uh-huh, it's very similar.
[07:43.670 --> 07:45.210]  Like a Strouger, step-by-step switch.
[07:45.370 --> 07:48.230]  Okay, fine, or a Stroger, step-by-step.
[07:48.230 --> 07:49.990]  You can't even agree how to pronounce it, can you?
[07:50.610 --> 07:52.150]  Well, we know what we're talking about, though.
[07:52.230 --> 07:53.470]  Yeah, no, he's on it.
[07:53.470 --> 07:54.030]  I get it.
[07:54.130 --> 07:54.750]  Well, think about this.
[07:54.950 --> 07:55.390]  Go back.
[07:55.630 --> 07:57.250]  When were these signs developed, Bernie?
[08:00.010 --> 08:00.730]  Oh, probably...
[08:01.330 --> 08:03.250]  Well, they were around when I was a little kid.
[08:04.130 --> 08:07.410]  Well, maybe the numeric ones for clocks were around when I was a kid.
[08:07.510 --> 08:10.410]  But I bet these signs have been around for 30 or 40 years.
[08:10.510 --> 08:11.130]  Okay, so...
[08:11.130 --> 08:11.930]  The flipping things.
[08:12.070 --> 08:13.270]  Well, let's figure...
[08:13.270 --> 08:16.470]  You know, let's go back to the middle part of the 20th century.
[08:16.590 --> 08:19.290]  And you had mechanical, electromechanical phone switches.
[08:19.670 --> 08:21.650]  And you had these signs all over the place.
[08:21.970 --> 08:23.510]  It was a loud country.
[08:23.510 --> 08:25.390]  All kinds of switching going on.
[08:25.510 --> 08:27.990]  All kinds of mechanical devices that you'd hear everywhere.
[08:28.350 --> 08:29.110]  Pinball machines.
[08:29.110 --> 08:30.850]  And now it's so quiet, you know?
[08:31.010 --> 08:31.930]  Everything is electronic.
[08:31.930 --> 08:33.870]  The hum of the computer.
[08:34.390 --> 08:35.270]  It's kind of sad.
[08:35.290 --> 08:36.230]  But also kind of cool.
[08:36.470 --> 08:37.150]  It's a whir.
[08:37.490 --> 08:37.910]  Yeah.
[08:39.250 --> 08:41.590]  So, anyway, that's the development, actually.
[08:41.790 --> 08:44.630]  We found out about only a little while ago.
[08:45.410 --> 08:49.610]  Okay, so it's barely six days.
[08:49.830 --> 08:54.030]  Less than six days since the inauguration actually happened.
[08:54.930 --> 08:56.250]  Or maybe just a little bit more.
[08:56.370 --> 08:57.230]  It's less than a week.
[08:57.230 --> 08:57.870]  Let's put it that way.
[08:59.890 --> 09:02.270]  Bernie, in one word, what would you say about the first week?
[09:02.950 --> 09:04.870]  I mean, you couldn't make this stuff up.
[09:05.190 --> 09:06.590]  Yeah, that's a lot more than one word.
[09:06.810 --> 09:07.130]  Bizarre?
[09:07.410 --> 09:07.630]  All right.
[09:07.730 --> 09:08.670]  Oh, you said in one word?
[09:08.790 --> 09:09.890]  Well, it's impossible.
[09:10.190 --> 09:11.310]  It really is impossible.
[09:11.710 --> 09:12.070]  Bizarre.
[09:12.230 --> 09:13.150]  You'd have to make up a word.
[09:13.330 --> 09:14.170]  My word's corrupt.
[09:14.570 --> 09:14.870]  Bizarre.
[09:14.910 --> 09:15.270]  Bizarre.
[09:15.270 --> 09:15.290]  Bizarre.
[09:15.290 --> 09:15.370]  Bizarre.
[09:15.630 --> 09:15.710]  Corrupt.
[09:16.490 --> 09:18.070]  I mean, we've seen corrupt before.
[09:18.550 --> 09:19.710]  Corrupt has its charm.
[09:19.870 --> 09:20.930]  This doesn't have charm.
[09:21.030 --> 09:21.950]  This is something else.
[09:22.490 --> 09:23.210]  This is...
[09:23.610 --> 09:27.210]  And I also hesitate to use evil because it sort of gives evil a bad name.
[09:28.250 --> 09:29.190]  There's a word out there.
[09:29.250 --> 09:29.750]  I'm going to find it.
[09:29.830 --> 09:30.010]  Rob?
[09:30.150 --> 09:32.370]  I have a word, but I can't say it on the radio.
[09:32.510 --> 09:35.050]  It's on a big poster we have here with seven words you can't say.
[09:35.050 --> 09:36.330]  All of those words do apply.
[09:36.630 --> 09:37.310]  That's true.
[09:37.510 --> 09:40.250]  But I'm looking for something just kind of unique.
[09:40.250 --> 09:41.750]  Maybe our listeners can help us with this.
[09:42.170 --> 09:43.730]  O-T-H at 2600.com.
[09:43.930 --> 09:44.690]  No hyphens, right?
[09:45.130 --> 09:46.290]  You can hyphenate.
[09:46.470 --> 09:48.490]  You can make a compound word, German style.
[09:48.590 --> 09:49.030]  Sure, why not?
[09:49.650 --> 09:50.790]  It's a new era, Kyle.
[09:50.910 --> 09:52.630]  We have to play by new rules.
[09:52.790 --> 09:54.130]  And that's exactly what's happening.
[09:54.330 --> 09:55.650]  Everything is different now.
[09:56.270 --> 10:00.450]  What we feared pretty much is what is happening, if not worse.
[10:00.910 --> 10:02.230]  The rules have changed.
[10:02.370 --> 10:03.930]  The laws no longer apply.
[10:04.650 --> 10:09.590]  If there's a law that's inconvenient, it simply gets struck down or wiped away.
[10:09.590 --> 10:11.470]  Or cast some doubt.
[10:11.870 --> 10:17.810]  Yeah, fake news, different news agencies, limiting access.
[10:19.570 --> 10:21.270]  It's fascinating to watch.
[10:21.270 --> 10:24.730]  If this was some kind of documentary, we'd be taking notes saying this is...
[10:24.730 --> 10:26.770]  You see, this is where it all started to go wrong.
[10:27.770 --> 10:45.750]  Listening to various news reports, both here on Pacifica and in the mainstream media, and of course, reading all kinds of legitimate news outlets throughout the internet, and printed on paper as well, you just get the sense that we're overwhelmed.
[10:46.070 --> 10:47.410]  We're being hit with so much.
[10:47.490 --> 10:53.190]  It's like the final part of a firework show where you don't know where to look because there's so much happening at the same time.
[10:53.190 --> 10:54.430]  Except this isn't the final part.
[10:54.430 --> 10:55.110]  This is the beginning.
[10:56.470 --> 11:01.410]  And it's anyone's guess where it will go next.
[11:01.790 --> 11:04.110]  We have the Standing Rock pipeline.
[11:04.710 --> 11:06.450]  New life breathed into that.
[11:06.770 --> 11:09.770]  That is going to be the front line of resistance.
[11:11.010 --> 11:11.850]  We have...
[11:11.850 --> 11:13.110]  I don't even...
[11:13.870 --> 11:15.130]  It's hard to keep track of it.
[11:15.190 --> 11:15.610]  I'm sorry, Bernie.
[11:15.730 --> 11:15.810]  What?
[11:16.210 --> 11:17.610]  The Keystone pipeline, too.
[11:17.730 --> 11:18.910]  The one coming down from Canada.
[11:19.670 --> 11:20.790]  Well, that's the same one.
[11:20.870 --> 11:21.370]  Oh, isn't it?
[11:21.450 --> 11:22.450]  Or is that the other one?
[11:22.550 --> 11:22.810]  You're right.
[11:25.110 --> 11:33.250]  Yeah, Keystone is in the same general area, but that is a proposed project that was shot down during the Obama administration.
[11:33.570 --> 11:38.490]  But just to add to your list, you have gag orders now with agencies.
[11:38.710 --> 11:39.150]  You hear about that?
[11:39.470 --> 11:47.950]  The EPA, the Environmental Protection Agency, is no longer allowed to talk to the public, to tell the public what is going on.
[11:48.290 --> 11:52.570]  This is dictatorship ingredients here.
[11:52.570 --> 12:02.150]  to basically shut down any speech of something that you might have issues with, you might have a problem with.
[12:02.370 --> 12:09.250]  And of course, we know that Trump has issues with the concept of global warming, with science itself.
[12:09.990 --> 12:19.790]  There was a NASA website, a NASA Twitter feed, actually, yesterday, that was tweeting something about global warming, and people were saying, you're so courageous for doing this.
[12:19.870 --> 12:27.450]  And I could not believe that we're congratulating scientists for being courageous, for speaking the truth, for talking about science.
[12:27.690 --> 12:36.650]  I mean, yeah, okay, they deserve the credit, but what kind of a country are we turning into where that is a sign of bravery, just saying the truth?
[12:37.410 --> 12:44.590]  And, you know, we had the, I hesitate to call it a march, because so many people went to D.C.
[12:44.650 --> 12:46.610]  that there wasn't room to move.
[12:46.990 --> 12:49.210]  And so the march just turned into a rally.
[12:49.810 --> 12:53.490]  We had a rally here in New York.
[12:53.490 --> 12:55.250]  We had rallies everywhere.
[12:55.570 --> 12:57.010]  I mean, out on Long Island, there were rallies.
[12:57.150 --> 12:58.550]  You know that's big when that happens.
[12:58.730 --> 13:02.610]  Yeah, there were several thousand people out in the Suffolk County area, but there were two rallies.
[13:02.770 --> 13:11.350]  There was a rally on the 21st on Saturday, post-inauguration, being the Women's March and other interested groups being there as well.
[13:11.530 --> 13:20.450]  And then last night, there was thousands of people in front of, or as close as they could get to Trump Tower, to raise their voices about the Dakota Access Project.
[13:20.570 --> 13:32.450]  I dare say there's a rally going on now, because, you know, I see helicopters, and whenever I see helicopters, first of all, it brings back bad memories of 2004, but I just assume something social is going on.
[13:32.990 --> 13:35.830]  And so I would not be surprised if there's a rally happening right now.
[13:35.930 --> 13:37.230]  It's impossible to keep up with them all.
[13:37.310 --> 13:37.690]  And this is good.
[13:37.770 --> 13:38.410]  This is so healthy.
[13:38.530 --> 13:39.810]  This is something.
[13:39.990 --> 13:45.310]  The reaction we talked about the day after the election, it's an interesting show to listen to.
[13:45.470 --> 13:55.930]  In retrospect, we talked about how the reaction to what had just happened was extremely important, and that would define where we went next.
[13:55.930 --> 14:09.350]  That reaction came on Saturday, and we saw upwards of 4 million people, if you combine them all, marching and rallying and protesting, and it was bigger than anything that had ever happened in this country before.
[14:09.390 --> 14:10.270]  That includes Vietnam.
[14:10.530 --> 14:13.590]  That includes all the protests against Vietnam.
[14:13.810 --> 14:17.390]  Not all of them added up together, but as one event.
[14:17.870 --> 14:19.070]  This is incredible.
[14:19.070 --> 14:20.410]  But it can't stop here.
[14:20.410 --> 14:21.590]  It has to keep going.
[14:21.590 --> 14:26.790]  The question is, where will it go, and what forms will it take?
[14:27.610 --> 14:29.170]  Hacking is definitely going to be a part of that.
[14:30.210 --> 14:34.990]  Digital, electronic actions are certainly going to be a major ingredient.
[14:35.870 --> 14:37.370]  And we're here to discuss that.
[14:37.450 --> 14:38.150]  We're here to brainstorm.
[14:38.230 --> 14:42.790]  We're here to give voices to the people who feel like they have no voices.
[14:43.090 --> 14:45.490]  And another train has just arrived.
[14:45.670 --> 14:45.830]  Okay.
[14:46.230 --> 14:48.790]  That is a little distracting, but I guess we'll just have to deal with it.
[14:48.790 --> 14:54.450]  Imagine we were just in Penn Station, and we would have to deal with that all the time.
[14:55.770 --> 14:59.790]  Seems intermittent, but yes, it's a nice effect.
[15:00.470 --> 15:02.110]  But certainly, these...
[15:02.110 --> 15:03.430]  Go ahead, Bernie.
[15:03.990 --> 15:04.290]  I'm sorry.
[15:04.430 --> 15:08.130]  I like the mood sound in the background with the flip cards.
[15:08.270 --> 15:19.370]  Anyway, there's a rally going on right now in Center City, Philadelphia, which will be going on probably for the next couple days, because the president and the entire GOP leadership are coming.
[15:19.770 --> 15:27.570]  And the British Prime Minister, of all people, she's coming as well, Theresa May, I think her name is, to the Lowe's Hotel on 12th and Market Street.
[15:28.970 --> 15:33.410]  Tomorrow, the president is speaking at noon, and tense goes on an hour later.
[15:33.410 --> 15:34.770]  So, there's going to be...
[15:34.770 --> 15:37.990]  I was there last tip this evening, and there were a lot of protesters.
[15:38.330 --> 15:51.970]  There was also Secret Service, Department of Homeland Security, Philly police out the wazoo, the bomb squad, and some really scary-looking paramilitary vehicle with gun ports I saw, too.
[15:51.970 --> 15:53.330]  I think I sent you a picture of that.
[15:53.710 --> 15:56.530]  It's just, you know, we've got to keep this up.
[15:56.650 --> 15:58.110]  But this is crazy stuff.
[15:58.110 --> 16:08.070]  Well, I have no doubt we will be keeping it up, because there will be a lot to focus upon, and during this brief time we have, we're going to try and focus on it as much as possible.
[16:08.970 --> 16:11.870]  Kyle, you have something before I bring this particular point up?
[16:12.010 --> 16:30.430]  Yeah, I think just to give it some perspective, being engaged gives you a lot of encouragement, I think, and that kind of day-after despair that was written all over, and maybe some people's faces still has it written there.
[16:30.790 --> 16:40.770]  But it's less traumatic when you get engaged and actually participate and respond.
[16:40.910 --> 16:42.330]  I think people are...
[16:42.330 --> 16:55.450]  they're finding ways, they maybe at first don't realize ways to respond, but as you said, we have these front lines, these battles, and I think everybody isn't so confused when you really think about it.
[16:55.530 --> 17:03.050]  You know what this means, and as far as where you can be effective, it's the things that you already are working on and care about.
[17:03.390 --> 17:07.730]  That's where you have your strength and your power and your voice.
[17:07.730 --> 17:13.330]  And I think that when you remember those things, it's a lot less daunting.
[17:13.610 --> 17:18.130]  And then you add to that the realization of how many people are with you.
[17:18.350 --> 17:26.250]  Yeah, that really is extremely important and something we need to constantly remind ourselves of and not ease up.
[17:26.250 --> 17:36.670]  Because we see that this administration is very sensitive to criticism of any sort, very sensitive to any kind of rebellion or people who don't toe the line.
[17:36.670 --> 17:42.210]  Well, that's us, that's a lot of us, and they're going to have to get used to it.
[17:43.030 --> 17:51.530]  And I think we will prevail and have the upper hand as long as we stick together and continue to fight back and stay on top of all this.
[17:51.690 --> 17:52.350]  It's difficult.
[17:52.530 --> 17:59.850]  You know, with all the nonsense about crowd size, people didn't hear about a lot of the other things that were going on at the same time.
[17:59.850 --> 18:06.790]  With all the talk about millions of people voting illegally, nonsense that's completely not backed up by fact.
[18:07.210 --> 18:19.350]  We weren't hearing enough about the various executive actions, including Standing Rock and various other things that Trump has been up to that we'll try and get into as many as possible.
[18:19.570 --> 18:24.070]  So it's important to try and keep track of it all without getting too discouraged.
[18:24.390 --> 18:25.390]  Remember, you're not alone.
[18:25.390 --> 18:33.610]  There are so many people out here that are upset and figuring out ways to strike back.
[18:33.870 --> 18:36.970]  And that's exactly what we need, our ideas on ways to do that.
[18:37.030 --> 18:37.990]  Ways to show dissent.
[18:38.290 --> 18:39.770]  I believe Greenpeace did something today.
[18:39.810 --> 18:40.290]  Is that right, Carl?
[18:40.510 --> 18:41.090]  They did, yeah.
[18:41.290 --> 18:46.690]  They had a banner that was unfurled right behind the White House.
[18:46.710 --> 18:47.390]  Oh, wow.
[18:47.450 --> 18:49.150]  Which was great framing.
[18:49.150 --> 19:13.210]  It ended up being this enormous backdrop you could see from the street and where it was essentially a crane that had this banner flying and several guys and women, I'm sure, folks of all types repelled from this crane to unfurl this massive banner that said resist in huge block text.
[19:13.390 --> 19:14.230]  That is exactly what we need.
[19:14.230 --> 19:23.450]  We've never needed Greenpeace more than now, and we've never needed so many of the organizations and groups that are staples of our democracy, everything from Planned Parenthood to the ACLU.
[19:24.090 --> 19:28.850]  And we're going to learn how important they are in the weeks, months, years ahead.
[19:29.210 --> 19:30.950]  I think this will be good for us.
[19:30.950 --> 19:35.090]  I think we will come out of this stronger, more determined, and a lot more educated.
[19:35.330 --> 19:36.690]  But we're definitely going to work.
[19:36.690 --> 19:37.290]  Oh, yeah.
[19:37.470 --> 19:39.290]  And there will be prices to pay.
[19:39.430 --> 19:40.850]  There will be lots of prices to pay.
[19:41.010 --> 19:42.690]  But we're here for you.
[19:43.110 --> 19:44.590]  And hopefully you're here for us.
[19:45.110 --> 19:45.550]  Okay.
[19:45.650 --> 19:56.290]  I want to talk about the new FCC chairman, but we'll get to that in just a little while because I don't want to keep our guest up too late because for some reason it's later where he is.
[19:56.810 --> 20:13.570]  We are joined tonight by our friend Attila in the Netherlands who helped us out with the the Hope Network for Hope X and is involved in yet another hacker gathering taking place this summer.
[20:13.670 --> 20:14.350]  Attila, are you there?
[20:15.710 --> 20:16.090]  Yeah.
[20:16.230 --> 20:16.390]  Hi.
[20:16.530 --> 20:16.930]  Good evening.
[20:17.150 --> 20:17.910]  How are you?
[20:18.050 --> 20:18.830]  Good morning for you.
[20:19.450 --> 20:20.230]  Tell us...
[20:20.230 --> 20:20.530]  Yeah.
[20:20.610 --> 20:20.950]  Good morning.
[20:21.130 --> 20:21.970]  Tell us what's coming up.
[20:22.130 --> 20:25.470]  It's a Dutch hacker camp in both July and August.
[20:27.770 --> 20:28.290]  Yeah.
[20:28.990 --> 20:31.910]  Well, it's from 4th till 8th of August.
[20:33.090 --> 20:34.270]  Oh, I got it wrong then.
[20:34.330 --> 20:34.610]  I'm sorry.
[20:35.950 --> 20:36.270]  Yeah.
[20:37.090 --> 20:42.410]  Well, it's in the same line as the hacker camps that are being organized every four years in the Netherlands.
[20:42.650 --> 20:42.810]  Right.
[20:43.030 --> 20:44.330]  The first one was in 89.
[20:45.670 --> 20:48.270]  I wasn't there in person because I was only five years old.
[20:48.490 --> 20:49.550]  Galactic Hacker Party.
[20:49.690 --> 20:49.790]  Yeah.
[20:50.650 --> 20:53.890]  And then HEU, Hackers at the End of the Universe in 1993.
[20:54.990 --> 20:56.110]  Let's see if we can get them all.
[20:56.790 --> 20:59.470]  HIP, which was at the same time as Beyond Hope.
[20:59.570 --> 21:00.370]  Hacking in Progress.
[21:00.610 --> 21:01.230]  Hacking in Progress.
[21:01.230 --> 21:02.570]  So it was in 1997.
[21:04.150 --> 21:04.470]  Okay.
[21:04.570 --> 21:05.710]  Then I get a little lost.
[21:06.090 --> 21:07.530]  Howl was 2001.
[21:08.330 --> 21:08.690]  Oh, okay.
[21:09.010 --> 21:09.210]  Yeah.
[21:09.370 --> 21:09.950]  That must have been...
[21:09.950 --> 21:11.270]  So that was, yeah, four years after that.
[21:11.450 --> 21:11.770]  2001.
[21:12.490 --> 21:13.470]  Then what was 2005?
[21:13.590 --> 21:14.170]  What the Hack.
[21:14.310 --> 21:15.550]  What the Hack was 2005.
[21:15.950 --> 21:16.110]  Yeah.
[21:17.030 --> 21:17.670]  Then 2009.
[21:18.430 --> 21:19.230]  What did you do, Har?
[21:19.590 --> 21:19.910]  Har.
[21:20.250 --> 21:20.490]  Okay.
[21:20.830 --> 21:21.950]  Hacking at random, I believe.
[21:22.050 --> 21:22.830]  Hacking at random, yeah.
[21:22.990 --> 21:23.230]  Okay.
[21:23.230 --> 21:26.210]  And then, hold on, 2000 and...
[21:26.210 --> 21:27.610]  Hang on, we got a train coming in.
[21:27.690 --> 21:27.950]  13.
[21:28.230 --> 21:30.270]  2013 was...
[21:30.270 --> 21:30.810]  Ohm.
[21:31.050 --> 21:31.350]  Ohm.
[21:31.790 --> 21:32.150]  Okay.
[21:32.250 --> 21:32.950]  I should have known that.
[21:33.290 --> 21:36.610]  And then what's 2017 going to be, Attila?
[21:38.150 --> 21:40.210]  Well, that's going to be called SHA.
[21:40.610 --> 21:42.370]  And that stands for Still Hacking Anyway.
[21:42.910 --> 21:44.030]  Oh, I like it.
[21:44.190 --> 21:44.850]  That's clever.
[21:45.010 --> 21:46.070]  Still Hacking Anyway.
[21:47.330 --> 21:47.770]  Yeah.
[21:48.050 --> 21:48.690]  That's brilliant.
[21:49.050 --> 21:54.550]  Well, actually, we came up with the name later than the letters.
[21:55.050 --> 21:57.170]  So that was some discussion what it should be.
[21:57.690 --> 21:59.130]  But in the end, this is it.
[21:59.270 --> 22:02.730]  And it stands for whatever is happening in the world right now.
[22:03.430 --> 22:04.810]  Well, we're still hacking anyway.
[22:05.150 --> 22:09.530]  What made you come up with SHA as the letters that you wanted to make an acronym for?
[22:10.030 --> 22:12.550]  Or make an acronym for it?
[22:12.550 --> 22:14.910]  Part of it, well, we're security-related.
[22:15.510 --> 22:18.110]  And it's a hashing algorithm, of course.
[22:19.310 --> 22:22.490]  But to be honest, there was a long discussion about it.
[22:22.590 --> 22:27.070]  And at the time, I didn't join the discussion because I like the barbecue more.
[22:27.370 --> 22:30.010]  And I'm coming up with the letters of an event myself.
[22:30.970 --> 22:33.690]  I like how he says it's a hashing algorithm, of course.
[22:33.870 --> 22:35.910]  Because all of our listeners know that.
[22:36.230 --> 22:37.430]  Or we expect you to.
[22:37.690 --> 22:38.270]  I hope so.
[22:39.610 --> 22:44.170]  Okay, so Attila, first of all, how long have you been involved?
[22:44.570 --> 22:47.530]  You mentioned you were five years old at Galactic Hacker Party.
[22:47.570 --> 22:48.670]  So I guess that's when you got your start.
[22:50.410 --> 22:54.270]  Yeah, well, I wasn't involved with a computer back then.
[22:54.650 --> 22:59.430]  But the first camp that I joined was Hacking in Progress in 97.
[22:59.710 --> 22:59.930]  Okay.
[23:00.690 --> 23:05.770]  Because it was around a kilometer from where I lived at the time.
[23:05.930 --> 23:06.390]  Oh, wow.
[23:06.390 --> 23:08.790]  I had no idea what I was doing there because I was 12.
[23:09.130 --> 23:12.750]  But I brought my computer and I connected it to the network.
[23:12.990 --> 23:15.350]  And it was very fast internet at the time.
[23:16.010 --> 23:17.290]  How fast was that?
[23:17.370 --> 23:17.810]  Do you remember?
[23:18.930 --> 23:19.410]  Wow.
[23:19.590 --> 23:20.790]  I have no idea.
[23:21.270 --> 23:23.510]  We should ask the people from AccessTroll.
[23:24.130 --> 23:25.750]  They organized it at the time.
[23:25.910 --> 23:29.610]  But it wasn't, say, 10 gigs or anything like that.
[23:30.670 --> 23:32.190]  No, definitely not.
[23:32.990 --> 23:36.910]  I believe the first one in 2001, that was Hackers at Large.
[23:37.050 --> 23:41.290]  And they organized it at the university terrain.
[23:41.470 --> 23:43.430]  And there they had fiber at the time.
[23:44.130 --> 23:44.370]  Okay.
[23:44.690 --> 23:46.690]  So it was probably much, much faster by then.
[23:47.830 --> 23:48.350]  Okay.
[23:48.950 --> 23:49.350]  Definitely.
[23:49.610 --> 23:53.230]  So tell us something about what's being planned.
[23:55.070 --> 23:57.370]  So it will be a five-day event again.
[23:57.370 --> 24:01.010]  We have to sort out when exactly the talks will start.
[24:04.090 --> 24:09.190]  And basically, we're at the field of the scouting organization in the Netherlands.
[24:10.150 --> 24:14.570]  They have bought their own terrain because they basically had the same issue that we had.
[24:14.570 --> 24:17.450]  But they're organizing a lot of events over the years.
[24:17.690 --> 24:20.930]  And every time they go to an event, there's no infrastructure.
[24:20.930 --> 24:24.250]  You have to build bridges, do everything.
[24:24.590 --> 24:26.830]  So we came in contact with them.
[24:27.010 --> 24:28.650]  And we're renting their event field.
[24:28.930 --> 24:38.350]  And what they've done is there's infrastructure like sewage in the ground, copper cabling, fiber cabling, water, power, everything.
[24:38.350 --> 24:42.510]  So that makes organizing the event quite a bit easier.
[24:42.830 --> 24:43.510]  Well, that's...
[24:43.510 --> 24:44.030]  That's...
[24:44.030 --> 24:44.470]  Yeah.
[24:45.010 --> 24:49.450]  I mean, a lot of the fun comes from building it from the ground up, where there's nothing there.
[24:49.550 --> 24:52.890]  But if you have a head start, I guess you can just keep building something else.
[24:54.350 --> 24:56.170]  Well, there's still enough left.
[24:56.750 --> 25:01.130]  So if anyone wants to volunteer, we're still looking for volunteers.
[25:01.370 --> 25:02.410]  No problem there.
[25:02.670 --> 25:03.230]  Well, okay.
[25:03.230 --> 25:03.930]  Let's talk about that.
[25:03.930 --> 25:04.830]  How do people get involved?
[25:06.290 --> 25:14.090]  So if you want to join, if you go to the website, shat2017.org, we have an organization wiki.
[25:15.130 --> 25:17.670]  And you can sign up to a team there.
[25:17.790 --> 25:20.950]  And we have split the organization into several teams.
[25:21.630 --> 25:23.590]  And, well, have a look around.
[25:23.870 --> 25:30.370]  We even have vacancies online for teams that need a specific skill set.
[25:32.030 --> 25:34.830]  So, yeah, that's how you can get involved.
[25:35.910 --> 25:36.310]  Wow.
[25:36.710 --> 25:39.170]  And, of course, tickets are on sale as well, I believe.
[25:39.330 --> 25:39.970]  Are they still available?
[25:41.110 --> 25:41.510]  Yeah.
[25:41.810 --> 25:43.030]  Well, they're still available.
[25:43.190 --> 25:44.530]  The ticket sales is going very well.
[25:44.690 --> 25:47.830]  We opened the ticket shop during the CC Congress in December.
[25:49.910 --> 25:53.910]  And, well, yeah, you can buy your ticket now.
[25:53.910 --> 25:58.870]  And I believe that even if you should come from the U.S., it's just as part of the DEF CON.
[25:59.070 --> 26:01.570]  So it doesn't overlap with any other event.
[26:03.070 --> 26:04.790]  How many tickets will be available?
[26:05.010 --> 26:05.470]  Sorry, yeah.
[26:06.750 --> 26:08.330]  How many tickets will be available?
[26:09.230 --> 26:10.350]  Is there a maximum?
[26:10.530 --> 26:13.390]  Well, the maximum will be around 5,000.
[26:14.030 --> 26:14.430]  Okay.
[26:14.730 --> 26:15.490]  So this is...
[26:16.090 --> 26:17.770]  These will sell out, no problem.
[26:18.350 --> 26:20.110]  Attila, what is the...
[26:20.110 --> 26:21.410]  What is the...
[26:21.410 --> 26:21.950]  Go ahead.
[26:24.050 --> 26:26.050]  Well, they will definitely sell out.
[26:26.170 --> 26:27.270]  At least we hope so.
[26:27.630 --> 26:32.330]  But we are not the CC Congress, so they won't be sold out in, like, one evening.
[26:33.110 --> 26:35.030]  But the sales are going pretty well.
[26:35.050 --> 26:39.470]  So if you don't want to miss a ticket, then, yeah, you might want to buy one.
[26:40.090 --> 26:42.930]  Attila, you told us a little bit about the terrain already.
[26:43.330 --> 26:52.150]  Can you tell us a little bit about the proximity to, like, say, Amsterdam, just so that our listeners have an idea of the proximity for transit?
[26:53.510 --> 26:56.650]  Yeah, so it's about 55 kilometers from Amsterdam.
[26:56.650 --> 26:58.010]  It's in the polder.
[26:58.110 --> 27:01.870]  So you will actually be below water level or below sea level.
[27:02.670 --> 27:03.390]  That's exciting.
[27:03.690 --> 27:08.310]  And, well, it's easy to get there by public transport.
[27:08.310 --> 27:12.710]  And then we have to arrange something for people to get there from the train station.
[27:12.710 --> 27:14.290]  But we've done that over the years.
[27:14.690 --> 27:14.870]  Great.
[27:14.990 --> 27:18.130]  So there will be shuttles or something like that, as in the past.
[27:18.370 --> 27:24.050]  And there's more information about the exact location and details to get there on the site, right?
[27:25.110 --> 27:25.490]  Yeah.
[27:25.490 --> 27:31.110]  And some people are also planning to go there by boat because we have an actual harbor.
[27:31.890 --> 27:32.970]  Oh, okay.
[27:33.230 --> 27:39.450]  So is this because the CCC had an airport, you guys got to have a harbor, you know?
[27:41.450 --> 27:46.930]  We're lucky if we have a functioning escalator, you know, and you guys get all this infrastructure.
[27:47.550 --> 27:48.410]  Taxes on a boat.
[27:49.010 --> 27:49.570]  Wow.
[27:49.890 --> 27:50.770]  That's awesome.
[27:51.510 --> 27:52.450]  In the U.S.
[27:52.450 --> 27:53.630]  Well, actually, I...
[27:54.450 --> 27:55.170]  Go ahead.
[27:55.170 --> 28:03.610]  I read that there's a group of hackers from Hamburg and they want to rent a train and come to the Netherlands with it.
[28:03.750 --> 28:04.890]  Well, they've done this before, right?
[28:04.890 --> 28:05.770]  They are going to do that?
[28:05.870 --> 28:06.970]  I think they've done this before.
[28:07.110 --> 28:13.110]  I've heard of a hacker train that was rented and actually went on the tracks to someplace they were going.
[28:13.130 --> 28:17.610]  Yeah, you could just look for a private car and make the proper arrangements.
[28:17.770 --> 28:19.050]  It seems possible.
[28:19.190 --> 28:20.230]  Hackers can do these things.
[28:20.550 --> 28:23.670]  Since we're in Penn Station here, you can actually do that with Amtrak.
[28:23.670 --> 28:29.770]  You can have a private train car and hitch it onto the end of a train and go wherever you want.
[28:30.370 --> 28:33.950]  They like to be told when you do that, but it is possible.
[28:33.950 --> 28:36.530]  You have to figure out where you're going to park it, though, and things like that.
[28:37.550 --> 28:39.930]  Okay, well, that's pretty cool to hear.
[28:40.090 --> 28:42.410]  We'll see how it works out.
[28:42.630 --> 28:56.430]  Well, now, Attila, you were instrumental in helping us at the HOPE conference achieve a milestone when we got 10 gigabit for the first time back in 2014 at HOPEX.
[28:56.430 --> 29:05.470]  Of course, Kyle, you were working with Attila and just getting us to be the fastest hacker conference, I think, in U.S.
[29:05.570 --> 29:07.930]  history and with a stable network, too.
[29:08.230 --> 29:13.890]  And, you know, I think it's because of what is done overseas, both in the Netherlands and in Germany.
[29:13.890 --> 29:15.030]  We see this work.
[29:15.190 --> 29:22.070]  We see networks constructed at lightning speeds and run very professionally.
[29:22.770 --> 29:27.350]  And we have been told by so many people in this country that, no, it's not possible.
[29:27.390 --> 29:31.430]  You can never do it, just like we've been told so many times about so many challenges.
[29:31.690 --> 29:37.890]  And it's just good to meet people that have this can-do attitude and that are willing to help us.
[29:37.890 --> 29:42.550]  So we want to thank you for that, and we hope that we're able to help you as well.
[29:43.770 --> 29:44.210]  Yeah.
[29:44.610 --> 29:45.330]  Yeah, absolutely.
[29:45.850 --> 29:57.370]  Well, if you want to have any promotional material, you or other hackerspaces or something, then feel free to contact us, and then we'll send something to the U.S.
[29:57.970 --> 29:58.790]  Yes, definitely.
[29:59.070 --> 30:01.810]  And we want to help you get the word out as well for this.
[30:01.810 --> 30:12.910]  For those who have never gone to a hacker camp, it really is an incredible experience, especially if you go to one in the Netherlands, because of just the overall atmosphere there.
[30:13.050 --> 30:21.350]  Which, you know, you're having political issues as well, I know, but the spirit still survives, and you will experience that.
[30:21.390 --> 30:24.450]  You'll come back inspired and refreshed.
[30:25.490 --> 30:40.450]  You'll meet all kinds of people you never would have met ordinarily, and you'll just be out in the open air, but yet dealing with hacking issues, learning things, attending lectures, and helping to build networks, and playing with all kinds of toys.
[30:40.630 --> 30:43.510]  Sharing ideas and hearing other perspectives as well.
[30:43.650 --> 30:43.890]  Mm-hmm.
[30:43.990 --> 30:44.850]  It's really amazing.
[30:45.490 --> 30:49.130]  Kyle, your first hacker camp was in 2009, I believe, right?
[30:49.130 --> 30:50.410]  Actually, you had two hacker camps.
[30:50.570 --> 30:54.510]  You had a tour camp out in Washington State, and then you went to...
[30:54.510 --> 30:55.990]  Wait, what was the one in 2009 again?
[30:56.130 --> 30:56.590]  That was...
[30:56.590 --> 30:56.690]  Har.
[30:56.790 --> 30:57.090]  Har.
[30:57.210 --> 30:57.610]  I'm sorry.
[30:58.390 --> 31:00.750]  I get on people's cases when they can't get the H.O.P.
[31:00.770 --> 31:01.350]  conferences right.
[31:02.070 --> 31:16.830]  So, yeah, and how would you describe that for somebody who has never been to an outdoor European hacker camp before, who says, yeah, you know, I'd like to do that, but it's just not feasible, and it's not something that, you know, I think I'm ready for.
[31:16.830 --> 31:19.210]  Or how would you try and convince them?
[31:19.830 --> 31:23.890]  I would suggest that people challenge themselves a little bit.
[31:24.110 --> 31:24.870]  It's difficult.
[31:26.350 --> 31:32.310]  The first thing people say is budget, which you have to get out of your head right away, because people travel on budgets.
[31:32.470 --> 31:36.710]  But also, just navigating those things, traveling on your own, can be a little bit difficult.
[31:37.150 --> 31:47.930]  But once you get there, you're around so many people that are interested in things you know about, or that you might want to learn about, that I find it's awe-inspiring.
[31:48.130 --> 32:03.810]  And just to see the creative use of technology or artistic installations, just a whole different attitude than what we need to see every day, maybe in our work, our recreational lives.
[32:03.810 --> 32:17.670]  This is the country where we have, you know, policies about, you know, not having more than one broadband provider, and eliminating that kind of creative and abundant use of technology.
[32:18.270 --> 32:24.670]  Well, you get exposed to other perspectives, other countries that have used their infrastructure in different ways.
[32:24.670 --> 32:33.030]  And that really motivated me to think about the way we do things here, and try for something different.
[32:33.350 --> 32:35.250]  But it's different for every person.
[32:35.430 --> 32:42.790]  I think one thing we encourage that you hear a little bit at camps is that people are going to go off and, you know, have their adventure.
[32:42.910 --> 32:46.790]  And that's really important, to meet people on your own and get lost a little bit.
[32:46.810 --> 32:51.070]  I certainly got lost at my first Dutch hacker camp.
[32:51.250 --> 32:52.770]  Well, you got lost in Europe, actually.
[32:52.770 --> 32:54.010]  I got lost on the way there.
[32:54.010 --> 32:54.770]  You took the wrong train.
[32:54.990 --> 32:56.030]  It was terrible, yeah.
[32:56.370 --> 32:56.510]  Wow.
[32:56.670 --> 33:16.570]  But they, as many Europeans, are very welcoming and introduced me to other hackers and put me to work right away, which is another really kind of cool thing, because I find when you're working together with people and making this event, you have a bit of camaraderie,
[33:16.630 --> 33:17.450]  and it's a good icebreaker.
[33:17.450 --> 33:22.630]  It's a great way to learn about people's lives and expand your network a bit.
[33:22.770 --> 33:29.250]  Now, when Kyle says to forget about budget, you know, I know exactly what you mean.
[33:29.410 --> 33:33.810]  I just don't want people to think that we're implying that budget is not an issue.
[33:33.910 --> 33:34.650]  Obviously, it is.
[33:34.830 --> 33:37.750]  But there are things you can tell yourself.
[33:37.990 --> 33:43.670]  Like, I don't want to say tricks, you know, to allow you to do things that you can't ordinarily do.
[33:43.930 --> 33:45.530]  But basically, that is what it is.
[33:46.750 --> 33:47.550]  It's priorities.
[33:48.110 --> 33:50.690]  And yeah, something costs a certain amount of money, but you know what?
[33:50.770 --> 33:53.570]  Something else costs money that maybe you don't do instead.
[33:53.930 --> 33:59.210]  Or maybe you figure out a way to, I don't know, sublet the place that you're no longer occupying if you're traveling.
[33:59.690 --> 34:01.350]  There are ways of doing things like this.
[34:01.410 --> 34:09.810]  And of course, there's always ways of saving money when you travel, staying in cheap places, and eating less, perhaps, or eating different food.
[34:10.190 --> 34:11.790]  There's all kinds of ways of doing it.
[34:11.930 --> 34:15.770]  But what I think we're trying to say is don't dismiss it out of hand.
[34:16.190 --> 34:17.870]  Think of how you can make it happen.
[34:18.010 --> 34:20.910]  Because, hell, we live in a world where Donald Trump got elected president.
[34:20.910 --> 34:21.890]  Anything is possible.
[34:21.890 --> 34:23.670]  So you can go to a hacker camp.
[34:24.010 --> 34:25.170]  Yeah, our friend T.
[34:25.270 --> 34:29.030]  Prophet has put out, actually, lots of talks at our HOPE conferences about travel hacking.
[34:29.390 --> 34:33.470]  And getting, you know, getting the most you can out of your travel budget.
[34:33.630 --> 34:35.650]  So check those out on our YouTube channel 2600.
[34:35.650 --> 34:36.070]  Bernie, go ahead.
[34:36.370 --> 34:43.390]  The word I would use to describe these European hacker camps is just beautiful.
[34:43.590 --> 34:56.890]  It's a beautiful experience, not just aesthetically, but just the beautiful art and technology combination of things you see for the infrastructure and everything else there, from the housing to everything.
[34:57.590 --> 35:01.270]  But just you will meet a lot of beautiful people.
[35:01.450 --> 35:12.730]  I don't mean aesthetically necessarily, but just people that are really passionate about working on some project or something that's really fascinating and could make the world a better place.
[35:13.010 --> 35:17.850]  And so you'll hear a lot of talks, meet a lot of people, and just engage.
[35:18.530 --> 35:21.130]  And plus it's from people from a lot of different countries.
[35:21.350 --> 35:28.010]  So that's... you can just walk around and meet people from all over the world and just sit down and have conversations with them about what's going on.
[35:28.410 --> 35:29.990]  It's a beautiful experience.
[35:30.590 --> 35:40.130]  Yeah, and I think the general takeaway or what I meant to qualify that is to forget your hang-ups about travel and plan some other things while you're there.
[35:40.130 --> 35:43.550]  If you just go for the five days, you'll feel like it's very expensive.
[35:43.550 --> 35:53.730]  But if you go for more than five days and have a little bit of an adventure before or after the event, you'll feel like you went for a long time, maybe three weeks or something, and you deserve that.
[35:53.890 --> 36:00.110]  Maybe it's all your vacation time ever, you know, but if you change your attitude a little bit, you'll have the best time ever.
[36:00.270 --> 36:03.830]  You meet people that you wind up staying with them, not paying anything for a place to stay.
[36:03.990 --> 36:04.790]  They come visit you.
[36:05.370 --> 36:06.370]  Your life changes.
[36:06.530 --> 36:10.890]  And we know a lot of people who have said, yeah, I can't possibly do this.
[36:10.930 --> 36:11.910]  And they went and did it.
[36:12.090 --> 36:12.690]  They went and did it.
[36:12.790 --> 36:15.510]  And then they realized, yeah, I can make this work.
[36:15.630 --> 36:17.170]  I can figure out a way to make this work.
[36:17.490 --> 36:19.990]  Obviously, there are some situations where you can't get past that.
[36:20.310 --> 36:26.070]  And of course, for those people, you can participate online or do something more local.
[36:27.450 --> 36:31.850]  But whenever possible, try and reach out and do these amazing things.
[36:32.350 --> 36:36.310]  Attila, I don't want to keep you up much longer because I know it is very late over there.
[36:36.870 --> 36:42.970]  But if you just give us the contact info one more time and the website and how people can buy tickets, that would be great.
[36:44.890 --> 36:48.870]  Well, the website is SHA2017.org.
[36:49.830 --> 36:57.270]  And, well, you can find the tickets up there and the organization wiki and user wiki where you can start your village, et cetera.
[36:58.210 --> 36:59.690]  So have a look around.
[36:59.830 --> 37:01.850]  And if you'd like to come over, then please do.
[37:02.850 --> 37:06.410]  So regarding the budget that you were mentioning or discussing.
[37:07.450 --> 37:11.830]  So if you're traveling from the U.S., the ticket price is only part of the budget.
[37:12.050 --> 37:16.110]  But if you really think you can't pay it, that will make the difference.
[37:16.430 --> 37:17.750]  Feel free to send us an email.
[37:17.890 --> 37:19.090]  We can always have a look at that.
[37:19.790 --> 37:23.210]  Wow, that's really incredible and gracious of you.
[37:23.690 --> 37:29.490]  I know maybe a student out there or someone who, that is a big deal, would appreciate that.
[37:29.490 --> 37:30.530]  It's a big deal for them.
[37:30.670 --> 37:32.950]  They would really appreciate the help out with that.
[37:33.090 --> 37:33.470]  So thanks.
[37:33.630 --> 37:39.410]  And also, if people are concerned about language issues, everybody in the Netherlands speaks better English than we do.
[37:39.730 --> 37:40.850]  So don't worry about that.
[37:40.990 --> 37:42.430]  You can still learn Dutch words, though.
[37:42.630 --> 37:44.030]  And you will learn Dutch curse words.
[37:44.190 --> 37:45.190]  They'll teach you that as well.
[37:45.230 --> 37:45.610]  Yeah, they'll teach you that.
[37:45.650 --> 37:46.150]  That's a courtesy.
[37:46.770 --> 37:47.930]  Attila, thank you so much.
[37:47.930 --> 37:49.530]  And we look forward to seeing you in August.
[37:49.550 --> 37:51.350]  And we'll probably talk to you before then as well.
[37:52.670 --> 37:53.350]  See you in August.
[37:53.670 --> 37:54.470]  Have a nice evening.
[37:54.710 --> 37:55.010]  All right.
[37:55.250 --> 37:55.590]  Take care.
[37:55.730 --> 37:56.350]  Great to talk with you.
[37:57.230 --> 37:58.710]  Attila from the...
[37:58.710 --> 37:59.750]  How are you supposed to say it?
[38:00.370 --> 38:01.210]  SHA-2017.
[38:01.610 --> 38:02.990]  That's the right way to pronounce it?
[38:03.090 --> 38:03.670]  SHA-2017?
[38:03.910 --> 38:04.870]  Still hacking anyway.
[38:05.770 --> 38:06.510]  I like it.
[38:06.710 --> 38:07.510]  No, that's great.
[38:07.870 --> 38:08.330]  All right.
[38:09.610 --> 38:14.810]  Just one of many hacker events that take place throughout the course of a normal year.
[38:15.810 --> 38:16.870]  But we have much more.
[38:16.870 --> 38:19.150]  We have to focus on tonight.
[38:19.570 --> 38:23.270]  And as promised, there's going to be a new FCC chairman.
[38:23.510 --> 38:24.950]  Bernie, I know you're a big fan of this guy.
[38:25.030 --> 38:25.950]  You want to tell us something about him?
[38:26.710 --> 38:26.910]  Oh.
[38:27.710 --> 38:28.230]  Had it?
[38:30.930 --> 38:33.750]  Try not and let your emotions give you away.
[38:33.850 --> 38:34.170]  Yes, I know.
[38:34.310 --> 38:36.870]  It's my journalistic...
[38:40.330 --> 38:41.310]  Everybody's going through it.
[38:41.410 --> 38:41.810]  He's like Bernie peeking out.
[38:41.910 --> 38:42.370]  No, Bernie.
[38:42.830 --> 38:43.610]  Everybody's going through it.
[38:43.750 --> 38:45.470]  Yeah, I heard Al Gore sigh the other day.
[38:45.590 --> 38:47.630]  Yeah, Amy Goodman was groaning.
[38:47.830 --> 38:49.230]  Yeah, it's pretty bad.
[38:49.390 --> 38:50.610]  But yeah, reality again?
[38:51.530 --> 38:52.710]  The agit pie.
[38:52.930 --> 38:57.630]  He's been on the FCC board for the commission for several years.
[38:57.630 --> 39:01.310]  But he's never seen a telecom regulation that he liked.
[39:01.870 --> 39:04.470]  He's never liked any kind of consumer protection.
[39:04.470 --> 39:11.610]  He's a really staunch critic of network neutrality.
[39:11.610 --> 39:19.570]  And Trump just appointed him to be the FCC commissioner, the head of the Federal Communications Commission.
[39:19.590 --> 39:23.270]  He doesn't have to be confirmed by the Senate because he was already on the commission.
[39:23.690 --> 39:25.110]  So he's on there.
[39:25.310 --> 39:35.030]  And he, I predict, is going to just slash and burn FCC regulations that are designed to protect us in a lot of ways that we may not realize are doing that job.
[39:35.450 --> 39:39.190]  And we're not going to see network neutrality mandated anymore.
[39:39.190 --> 39:42.810]  You know, the Obama administration got it through, but now it's just going to go away.
[39:43.710 --> 39:46.110]  So this is disturbing to me.
[39:46.170 --> 39:48.470]  And we should all pay attention to what the FCC is going to be doing.
[39:48.750 --> 39:53.410]  Pay no attention to the circus slideshow going on.
[39:53.630 --> 39:54.590]  Pay attention to the FCC.
[39:54.670 --> 39:57.110]  Well, no, pay attention to the circus slideshow as well.
[39:57.190 --> 40:01.930]  Whenever I went to the circus, and I guess I won't be able to do that anymore, I would try to watch everything.
[40:02.050 --> 40:06.190]  But you tried to pay attention to the guy that was going to fall on his ass from the trapeze.
[40:06.930 --> 40:09.530]  But only with the realization that it is a sideshow.
[40:09.770 --> 40:12.730]  Because this is what I meant earlier about, we got to go to work.
[40:12.890 --> 40:21.590]  And I'm, you know, whatever your issues are, wherever you intersect with advocacy and action, get out there and work.
[40:21.830 --> 40:24.050]  And, you know, realize that stuff's going on.
[40:24.150 --> 40:26.310]  But for us, this is a big deal.
[40:26.310 --> 40:37.790]  I mean, this is all of the rules and policy objectives concerning what is a pretty important part of technology, being wireless communications and broadcasts.
[40:37.850 --> 40:42.750]  And don't be afraid of being angry, because you're supposed to be angry in the face of things like this.
[40:42.830 --> 40:45.130]  Not necessarily net neutrality, though I'm pretty angry about that.
[40:45.210 --> 40:46.130]  I know not everybody is.
[40:46.450 --> 40:53.590]  But there are so many things that are happening, that are developing, that basically are a slap in the face to the majority of people in this country.
[40:53.590 --> 41:03.450]  And I say that without any hesitation, because it is the majority of the people in this country that support things like health care and equal rights for LGBTQ.
[41:04.730 --> 41:08.170]  And they even took Spanish off the White House website.
[41:08.370 --> 41:11.690]  I mean, that is the kind of people we're dealing with now.
[41:11.830 --> 41:12.850]  These are not nice people.
[41:13.130 --> 41:17.790]  So, yeah, be angry and keep expressing yourself.
[41:18.670 --> 41:23.390]  The thing is, when people express themselves, they feel good, like they did on Saturday.
[41:24.330 --> 41:28.090]  But when people continue to express themselves and nothing happens, they get frustrated.
[41:28.310 --> 41:29.310]  And that's what I'm concerned about.
[41:29.450 --> 41:32.450]  I'm concerned about where this is going to go in the months ahead.
[41:32.670 --> 41:36.670]  Because I don't expect people are going to just calm down and say, oh, well, this is the new society.
[41:36.670 --> 41:38.310]  We must bow down to our new masters.
[41:38.750 --> 41:41.310]  I think they're going to get increasingly frustrated.
[41:41.310 --> 41:44.610]  And that's when the civil demonstrations stop being civil.
[41:44.990 --> 41:47.930]  And that's, you know, we've seen this in other countries around the world.
[41:47.930 --> 41:50.290]  We've seen all kinds of things fall apart.
[41:50.410 --> 41:51.910]  We've seen the reaction to that.
[41:52.030 --> 41:53.010]  We are not immune.
[41:53.190 --> 41:54.670]  We're not immune from a lot of this.
[41:55.390 --> 41:58.570]  So I just wonder where it will go from here.
[41:58.890 --> 42:04.950]  I do know that dialogue and communicating with each other is vital to whatever path we do take.
[42:04.950 --> 42:13.770]  And I know that here at WBAI, we are going to be talking for some of the best radio in a long time here on this radio station based on this.
[42:13.870 --> 42:20.230]  And I think we'll be seeing a lot of outlets expressing themselves in courageous and informative ways.
[42:20.350 --> 42:20.470]  Rob?
[42:20.630 --> 42:22.030]  And it's coming from all corners, too.
[42:22.170 --> 42:27.530]  I mean, there's the stuff we tend to cover on this program, the technical environment and regulation thereof.
[42:28.170 --> 42:34.070]  There's all these other sort of activist communities, women's rights, queer rights, anti-war, environmentalism.
[42:34.070 --> 42:38.070]  And I'm seeing in each one of these communities pretty much the same thing.
[42:38.210 --> 42:39.930]  I mean, people are getting that spark in their eye.
[42:39.970 --> 42:43.710]  They're like, okay, everything's going to be terrible, but we're going to go to work.
[42:43.790 --> 42:44.930]  We're going to beat this.
[42:45.010 --> 42:48.610]  We're going to come together and we're going to do what we do.
[42:48.650 --> 42:52.730]  And it's bringing people together just in all different corners of society, I think.
[42:52.850 --> 43:03.330]  You know what would be bad if we expressed ourselves and voiced our opinions and said various things and nobody cared and there was no reaction to it?
[43:04.070 --> 43:04.350]  I'm happy.
[43:04.770 --> 43:16.110]  I'm actually happy that we're seeing not that the bad things are happening, but that people are reacting to the bad things and it's getting a reaction or an unstable reaction from the people.
[43:16.190 --> 43:18.910]  I mean, you see that White House press conference on Saturday.
[43:19.070 --> 43:19.830]  That was insane.
[43:20.070 --> 43:22.350]  But that is a taste of what is to come.
[43:22.490 --> 43:26.130]  That is a glimpse at the mindset of the people running the country now.
[43:26.130 --> 43:35.650]  And we need to continue attacking that in whatever means we have, whether it's shutting it down and making it impossible for people to get anything done.
[43:35.650 --> 43:40.990]  That is certainly a tactic that has been used with great effect before or continuing to amass in the streets.
[43:41.110 --> 43:44.870]  Just whatever it takes to annoy them, it doesn't take much to annoy them.
[43:44.970 --> 43:46.610]  A single person can annoy them.
[43:46.770 --> 43:48.630]  A million people can really annoy them.
[43:48.630 --> 43:53.330]  And I think we're going to get a lot better at annoying people, the right people, that is.
[43:54.830 --> 44:01.330]  Yeah, to put this in kind of corporate language, I think the shareholders have a stake in this.
[44:01.490 --> 44:07.690]  And we are the shareholders, the people in this country that own this democracy.
[44:07.690 --> 44:25.430]  And it's the same thing for these mega corporations, multinational corporations that are involved with the pipelines or whatever other policy issue that is kind of being thrown at you.
[44:25.430 --> 44:38.950]  We need to understand that or communicate that their profit-seeking cannot go unchecked without consequences or a check on the impact.
[44:39.650 --> 44:41.450]  Like profits, that's one thing.
[44:41.570 --> 44:42.830]  We can debate that.
[44:43.010 --> 44:53.450]  But you want to regulate our internet and communications, stuff that other countries like Canada have declared as a human right.
[44:53.450 --> 44:57.710]  You want to make those changes and enact your policy.
[44:57.710 --> 44:59.010]  That's going to have an impact.
[44:59.250 --> 45:00.250]  And we're going to be watching.
[45:00.430 --> 45:13.990]  We're going to be speaking out and speaking to our representatives to push back on things that have consequence but are forced anyway.
[45:15.570 --> 45:28.230]  Contrary to what the shareholders, that's us, of our internet or our communities or environment is considered and they hear what we have to say about it.
[45:28.330 --> 45:42.430]  Well, you know, I just want to give this information out too because I was very inspired by what I saw online and the various people I follow on Twitter and what I've been seeing outside as well.
[45:42.430 --> 45:47.590]  But people have come together and put together what's known as a resistance manual.
[45:47.990 --> 45:55.430]  And this is something, it's Wikipedia style, where you can add information and updates and things like that.
[45:55.510 --> 46:00.410]  But basically, if you go to resistancemanual.org, you'll see the whole thing.
[46:00.410 --> 46:11.750]  You'll see all the agenda items ranging from Obamacare to immigration to LGBTQ equality, tax cuts for the wealthy, voting rights, police, women's rights.
[46:12.050 --> 46:26.110]  And basically, all those sections, if you click on them, you'll get information as to where it stands, what the tactics are, who to contact, phone numbers, very specific information.
[46:26.110 --> 46:28.430]  This is something we did not have before.
[46:28.670 --> 46:41.470]  This is something very specific and very useful, that if we simply organize together and share the information and work as a massive group, we will see results.
[46:41.470 --> 46:44.790]  We will see results in short order because it doesn't take much.
[46:45.310 --> 46:47.610]  If you call your congressman, it matters.
[46:47.930 --> 46:53.290]  You know, if you sign a petition online, it doesn't really matter that much as far as that goes.
[46:53.430 --> 46:56.330]  It matters in some cases, but it doesn't get their attention.
[46:56.570 --> 47:02.970]  If you call the office and speak to somebody, you're speaking to a person, you're speaking to a human being.
[47:03.190 --> 47:03.970]  It counts.
[47:04.210 --> 47:05.590]  They have to answer your call.
[47:05.710 --> 47:08.470]  They have to take your message and they have to deliver it to your representative.
[47:08.470 --> 47:16.070]  And if you're talking to that person, somebody else is not talking to that person, meaning that you're tying up a person there.
[47:16.210 --> 47:21.470]  So if somebody else calls, well, another person has to talk to them or they have to wait or there's a busy signal.
[47:21.670 --> 47:27.290]  Their office gets completely tied up with people like us calling to say, this matters to me.
[47:27.450 --> 47:32.530]  You're going to hear what I have to say every day, day and night, constantly.
[47:32.830 --> 47:34.770]  Us instead of lobbyists.
[47:34.950 --> 47:35.150]  Uh-huh.
[47:35.530 --> 47:35.750]  Uh-huh.
[47:36.590 --> 47:38.810]  All right, listen, we don't have much time left.
[47:38.810 --> 47:42.070]  I wanted to just focus on this story, too, because it's a fun story.
[47:42.750 --> 47:46.870]  It has to do with Twitter, Trump's Twitter feed.
[47:48.710 --> 47:55.530]  Apparently, Trump is continuing to tweet, except what he's doing now, nightmare of nightmares, he's tweeting twice.
[47:55.650 --> 48:01.550]  He's got the real Donald Trump Twitter handle, and now he has POTUS as well, President of the United States.
[48:01.550 --> 48:10.290]  And he is tweeting from both, although I suspect that on the POTUS Twitter handle, what he's doing is dictating it to somebody.
[48:10.430 --> 48:16.250]  Because I see the exact same wording with slightly different spelling or abbreviations and signs, things like that.
[48:16.250 --> 48:22.970]  So, he's not, well, he probably doesn't have the skill to cut and paste, but he's not typing it himself.
[48:22.970 --> 48:25.330]  He's telling somebody else to type it, and they're just typing it differently.
[48:25.570 --> 48:26.650]  That was very astute.
[48:26.730 --> 48:29.870]  You pointed that out and did the comparison, and it's uncanny.
[48:29.970 --> 48:36.650]  It's verbatim if it was spoken, but the distinctions in word choice and stuff were the tell.
[48:36.650 --> 48:52.610]  Well, according to a guy who identifies himself as a watcher or a ghost, the president, vice president, and first lady are now more vulnerable to hackers because of a basic Twitter security setting that they're not using.
[48:53.310 --> 49:04.630]  Now, this person contacted someone at CNN to discuss those insecurities and how, well, first of all, think about it.
[49:04.630 --> 49:18.910]  Think about if a Twitter account that millions of people are following around the world, including foreign leaders, if that account gets hacked in some way and fake things are posted on it, it can have...
[49:18.910 --> 49:21.550]  I mean, look at what Donald Trump's real tweets have done.
[49:21.730 --> 49:23.370]  They've caused stocks to tank.
[49:23.950 --> 49:25.690]  They've caused threats to be issued.
[49:25.870 --> 49:26.870]  They've caused all kinds of things.
[49:26.950 --> 49:31.270]  But imagine if something even more ridiculous was posted under his name and people believed it.
[49:31.390 --> 49:32.570]  It could start wars.
[49:32.570 --> 49:38.830]  We're much more insecure as a result of him not taking security seriously.
[49:39.090 --> 49:41.950]  And this is something that, you know, all of us as hackers know about.
[49:42.150 --> 49:47.190]  We know this is either something we don't take that seriously, so we're not going to secure it that much.
[49:47.430 --> 49:52.810]  Or if it is something we take seriously, you better believe we secure it as much as we possibly can.
[49:53.390 --> 49:56.110]  We're talking about a Twitter handle here.
[49:56.210 --> 49:58.450]  Let's look at POTUS, for instance.
[49:59.310 --> 50:01.730]  It's a fairly easy thing to reset the password.
[50:02.070 --> 50:02.710]  You know?
[50:02.870 --> 50:03.570]  You know how to do it?
[50:03.650 --> 50:12.710]  I mean, there are ways of protecting yourself where it can only be reset in a particular way, going to a certain phone number.
[50:13.150 --> 50:14.450]  Or email account.
[50:15.250 --> 50:17.610]  Well, that is how it's set up right now, in fact.
[50:17.870 --> 50:18.290]  Okay.
[50:18.290 --> 50:25.270]  What I'm doing right now, as I'm talking to you on the air, I'm not hacking POTUS, just so people calm down a little bit.
[50:25.390 --> 50:30.270]  What I'm doing is, I'm going to Twitter.com, and I just simply clicked Forgot My Password.
[50:30.810 --> 50:33.290]  Which is true, because I honestly did forget my password.
[50:33.370 --> 50:35.050]  But that's not what I'm trying to do here.
[50:37.150 --> 50:41.290]  And, basically, I entered the handle POTUS, P-O-T-U-S.
[50:41.430 --> 50:48.970]  Now, I have not clicked Return, so I have not actually had a password reset sent to the email account that is associated with POTUS.
[50:49.030 --> 50:50.990]  But what I did learn is what...
[50:50.990 --> 50:55.790]  Well, not what the email account is, but I have a pretty good guess as to part of it.
[50:55.790 --> 51:05.330]  But it's the letters DS, followed by, if this is accurate, I think it's 18 other letters, at gmail.com.
[51:05.810 --> 51:10.670]  I don't know if the stars that show up there represent the actual number of letters.
[51:10.670 --> 51:12.710]  But now I've just gotten this bit of information.
[51:13.130 --> 51:13.730]  All right?
[51:13.890 --> 51:14.750]  Gmail can be hacked.
[51:14.770 --> 51:16.330]  I think we've seen evidence of that.
[51:17.510 --> 51:19.890]  And social engineering certainly does work.
[51:19.970 --> 51:43.430]  But just knowing this, knowing DS, followed by 18 characters at gmail.com, and that is the email address that if you're somehow able to spoof it or intercept it in some way, and that password reset gets sent over there, well then, you might be able to do something that would rock the world in a bad way or a good way.
[51:44.050 --> 51:44.930]  What do you think, Rob?
[51:45.190 --> 51:55.370]  And I'm looking at this story, and Watchula Ghost also points out that the vice presidential account was tied to an email that was similarly at gmail.com.
[51:55.590 --> 51:57.390]  They're using a non-governmental email server.
[51:57.490 --> 51:58.590]  I thought that was some kind of big deal.
[51:59.190 --> 52:00.690]  Yeah, you would think that was a big deal.
[52:00.930 --> 52:01.430]  Actually, you know what?
[52:01.670 --> 52:08.750]  Now that I've done this, I'm curious, I'm going to type Donald Trump's actual username now.
[52:09.530 --> 52:10.010]  What is it?
[52:10.030 --> 52:10.870]  Real Donald Trump, right?
[52:10.950 --> 52:11.270]  That's it?
[52:11.470 --> 52:11.670]  Mm-hmm.
[52:11.810 --> 52:12.070]  Okay.
[52:12.570 --> 52:14.390]  Yeah, I forgot my password there, too.
[52:14.390 --> 52:18.430]  So what do I enter your email address or phone number to continue?
[52:18.690 --> 52:20.590]  See, he has installed it there.
[52:20.730 --> 52:27.010]  So I have to tell them my email address or phone number in order to get the password reset sent to Donald Trump.
[52:27.170 --> 52:29.130]  He is more secure than POTUS right now.
[52:29.650 --> 52:30.490]  Think about that.
[52:30.690 --> 52:32.470]  The real Donald Trump is not using...
[52:32.470 --> 52:32.550]  Yeah.
[52:32.550 --> 52:32.810]  Wow.
[52:33.410 --> 52:34.370]  So there you go, folks.
[52:34.450 --> 52:40.970]  All you have to do is figure out that email address and somehow, you know, go to Gmail.
[52:40.970 --> 52:42.210]  Say you forgot that password.
[52:42.210 --> 52:52.530]  You might be able to get to a point, like a Sarah Palin-type incident, where you simply have to answer a simple question, like, what is my birthday or something stupid like that, and you have access to the account.
[52:53.090 --> 53:03.830]  Or if Gmail was, like, hacked and a bunch of their accounts were in a file somewhere, someone could potentially find out that particular account, what it might be.
[53:03.890 --> 53:09.110]  As long as humans are involved somewhere along the line, yes, this is definitely a danger.
[53:09.230 --> 53:10.210]  This is something that could happen.
[53:10.210 --> 53:12.490]  And so keep that in mind.
[53:13.350 --> 53:13.830]  Wow.
[53:14.130 --> 53:14.270]  Yeah.
[53:15.110 --> 53:17.250]  Live hacking here on WBAI.
[53:17.510 --> 53:20.170]  So a Twitter account could be the bully pulpit.
[53:20.370 --> 53:21.090]  I mean, it is.
[53:21.090 --> 53:21.450]  Well, it is.
[53:21.450 --> 53:22.310]  But it could be...
[53:22.310 --> 53:26.190]  You could hack the bully pulpit by hacking a Twitter account.
[53:26.470 --> 53:26.950]  Yes.
[53:27.150 --> 53:28.150]  That's where we're at.
[53:28.310 --> 53:28.630]  Yes.
[53:28.710 --> 53:28.990]  You know what?
[53:29.390 --> 53:31.330]  I don't mean to...
[53:31.330 --> 53:33.510]  Apparently, there's other Twitter accounts I wasn't aware of.
[53:33.570 --> 53:34.610]  There's VP as well.
[53:34.750 --> 53:38.350]  Now, apparently, that one also is not secure.
[53:38.350 --> 53:40.550]  Let's see if it is for a moment here.
[53:40.670 --> 53:41.770]  I forgot the password to that.
[53:42.170 --> 53:42.930]  How did they get VP?
[53:42.950 --> 53:43.810]  That's only two letters.
[53:44.430 --> 53:45.330]  They must have connections.
[53:45.550 --> 53:46.450]  They must have done a deal with Twitter.
[53:46.650 --> 53:47.930]  What kind of dog do you think they're going to get?
[53:47.930 --> 53:48.650]  No, that one is secure.
[53:48.830 --> 53:49.950]  That one, I think, is...
[53:49.950 --> 53:50.510]  Now it is.
[53:50.630 --> 53:53.270]  In the story, it points out that it wasn't when this was written.
[53:53.390 --> 53:54.590]  Well, POTUS still isn't.
[53:54.590 --> 53:56.410]  So, that's kind of weird that they would leave that one out.
[53:57.950 --> 53:59.410]  And now I'm typing First Lady.
[53:59.530 --> 54:00.770]  Okay, First Lady is not secure.
[54:01.210 --> 54:03.510]  And I will give out that information now.
[54:03.510 --> 54:12.090]  It's TH followed by 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, about 10 other letters.
[54:12.610 --> 54:19.290]  TH at W, two letters, dot three letters, dot three letters.
[54:19.870 --> 54:21.810]  So, figure that one out, guys.
[54:22.110 --> 54:24.750]  Anyone who's good at Jeopardy, you should be able to figure this out pretty quickly.
[54:25.570 --> 54:27.070]  TH followed by...
[54:27.510 --> 54:28.790]  However many letters that is.
[54:30.010 --> 54:31.090]  I think about 10 letters.
[54:31.250 --> 54:34.730]  At W, three letters, dot three letters, dot three letters.
[54:34.970 --> 54:38.110]  And then you have the First Lady's Twitter account.
[54:38.290 --> 54:39.770]  But keep in mind, folks, this is Twitter.
[54:40.010 --> 54:43.910]  You know, I don't consider this the same thing as hacking into the grid.
[54:44.170 --> 54:47.630]  You know, or messing up an email server or anything like that.
[54:47.730 --> 54:48.230]  It's Twitter.
[54:48.990 --> 54:51.390]  I think a lot of us have forgotten that.
[54:51.390 --> 54:59.310]  That this is some commercial software that's meant to be fun that people take way too seriously sometimes.
[55:00.610 --> 55:02.750]  And also don't know how to secure, apparently.
[55:03.150 --> 55:09.050]  And what must it be like to be someone who works at Twitter now when it used to be some just fun thing that kids use to chat.
[55:09.050 --> 55:14.110]  And now it's a thing where you could type something into something and start World War, whatever we're on now.
[55:15.110 --> 55:17.890]  Yeah, it's going to be hard to keep track.
[55:17.890 --> 55:21.550]  But, yeah, that's going to pretty much do it for us, though, I think.
[55:21.610 --> 55:22.530]  Hopefully not permanently.
[55:24.510 --> 55:30.770]  And you can write to us with your suggestions or information or if you guessed any of those email accounts.
[55:31.310 --> 55:33.690]  OTH at 2600.com.
[55:34.430 --> 55:37.470]  We would love to hear from our listeners.
[55:37.730 --> 55:45.190]  And we're also taking guesses as to what official White House dog the Trump administration will have.
[55:46.210 --> 55:48.030]  Okay, we're going to have to... what, they're getting a dog?
[55:48.770 --> 55:49.130]  Probably.
[55:49.190 --> 55:50.290]  They have to, right?
[55:51.170 --> 55:51.890]  Russian Wolfhound.
[55:52.290 --> 55:54.450]  Can't the ASPCA step in?
[55:54.590 --> 55:55.410]  That's a good...
[55:55.410 --> 56:00.070]  No, seriously, because imagine having Donald Trump as your master...
[56:00.070 --> 56:01.090]  Well, actually, you know what?
[56:01.090 --> 56:02.330]  We don't have to imagine for long.
[56:02.450 --> 56:04.750]  My guess is a Borzoi.
[56:06.010 --> 56:07.350]  A Russian Wolfhound.
[56:07.870 --> 56:08.930]  Mine's a Borzoi.
[56:09.290 --> 56:10.070]  You got the Russian.
[56:10.190 --> 56:10.650]  What are you, Rob?
[56:10.730 --> 56:11.790]  He's going to get the biggest dog.
[56:11.890 --> 56:12.810]  It's going to be the best dog.
[56:12.930 --> 56:13.750]  It's going to have the biggest paws.
[56:13.750 --> 56:14.450]  You know what?
[56:14.570 --> 56:15.650]  I think you should get a dox hunt.
[56:16.010 --> 56:20.310]  Only because somehow I equate dox hunts with Donald Trump.
[56:20.450 --> 56:21.190]  Because he's a wiener?
[56:21.430 --> 56:23.190]  Well, no, I wasn't even thinking along those lines.
[56:23.290 --> 56:24.170]  But sure, that works too.
[56:24.910 --> 56:26.050]  All right, it's Emmanuel for Off the Hook.
[56:26.310 --> 56:27.950]  We'll be back again next week, God willing.
[56:28.210 --> 56:36.090]  And we'll be updating people on various things throughout the week at our website, www.2600.com.
[56:36.650 --> 56:42.430]  You can go to the Off the Hook section there, listen to any show that we have done in the past, since 1988, all the way up until now.
[56:43.370 --> 56:47.150]  And check out our main page for all kinds of other updates as they happen.
[56:47.730 --> 56:50.150]  Stay tuned for the Personal Computer Show here on WBAI.
[56:50.790 --> 56:50.990]  Good night.
[58:27.840 --> 58:35.360]  To be in England in the summertime with my love close to the edge.
[58:35.360 --> 58:35.860]  Good night.
[58:35.860 --> 58:36.020]  Good night.