[00:00.000 --> 00:01.080]  Voice of Truth.
[00:01.960 --> 00:04.620]  I took a pound in
[00:07.880 --> 00:15.120]  From the radio today I heard the radio say it over and over
[00:18.560 --> 00:28.640]  And there was no escape This is WBAI 99.5 FM in New York And this is Iggy Pop
[00:31.750 --> 00:34.090]  Okay, anybody else want to come in and say what station this is?
[00:34.230 --> 00:34.390]  No?
[00:34.830 --> 00:36.690]  Alright, the whole city of New York is here.
[00:36.910 --> 00:38.730]  It's WBAI New York.
[00:38.750 --> 00:46.270]  It's a little bit after 8 o'clock On a Wednesday night And that means, once again, it's time For Off the Hook.
[00:51.880 --> 01:13.460]  The telephone keeps ringing So I ripped it off the wall I cut myself while shaving Now I can't make a call We couldn't get much worse They would Von Liddley Bom But the best is back for worst I hope that's understood Von Liddley Bom
[02:39.190 --> 02:40.790]  And a very good evening, Terribuy.
[02:40.850 --> 02:41.650]  The program is Off the Hook.
[02:41.730 --> 02:44.170]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening.
[02:44.330 --> 02:45.430]  Joined tonight by Rob T.
[02:45.510 --> 02:45.970]  Firefly.
[02:45.970 --> 02:46.690]  Good evening.
[02:46.910 --> 02:47.210]  Kyle.
[02:47.570 --> 02:48.390]  Yep, I'm here.
[02:48.570 --> 02:49.050]  Hi.
[02:49.230 --> 02:49.950]  What's going on?
[02:50.110 --> 02:50.470]  How's it going?
[02:51.090 --> 02:52.150]  Voltaire is joining us tonight.
[02:52.330 --> 02:52.570]  Hi.
[02:52.970 --> 02:53.790]  And Bernie S.
[02:54.390 --> 02:56.530]  Greetings from northeastern Pennsylvania.
[02:57.210 --> 02:57.490]  Alright.
[02:58.110 --> 02:59.750]  And we are here...
[02:59.750 --> 03:00.530]  Sorry about last week.
[03:00.630 --> 03:02.690]  We thought we were on last week, but we weren't, obviously.
[03:03.190 --> 03:08.210]  This week we are on the air and we are raising funds for the radio station.
[03:08.310 --> 03:08.690]  Good news.
[03:09.550 --> 03:10.510]  We have...
[03:10.510 --> 03:13.390]  Actually, right over there in the corner are Rob T.
[03:13.510 --> 03:15.190]  Firefly's paintings from two weeks ago.
[03:15.670 --> 03:19.650]  And they are being sent out forthwith probably tomorrow or Friday.
[03:20.010 --> 03:24.230]  And those of you who pledged for them, two weeks ago, only two weeks ago, we'll be getting them.
[03:24.590 --> 03:25.010]  Yes, indeed.
[03:25.090 --> 03:25.910]  The final batch.
[03:26.110 --> 03:26.350]  Yes.
[03:27.670 --> 03:36.950]  And those of you who are still waiting for Hope X Premiums, flash drives from a while ago, those have also been ordered here at the radio station.
[03:37.090 --> 03:39.570]  They will be going out, they say, within a week or so.
[03:40.110 --> 03:45.910]  So, good news all around and we have something brand new to offer tonight as a result of that progress.
[03:46.150 --> 03:47.450]  So, thanks everybody for their patience.
[03:48.370 --> 03:53.990]  And, of course, any other issues that remain, we will be on top of and taken care of.
[03:54.650 --> 03:59.750]  So, we have a couple of updates and then we want to get into some interesting material for tonight.
[04:00.390 --> 04:04.010]  First of all, you might have heard Donald Trump's website was hacked.
[04:04.290 --> 04:05.910]  Yeah, it happened a couple of days ago.
[04:06.650 --> 04:08.770]  Supposedly an attacker from Iraq.
[04:11.190 --> 04:14.730]  His handle is ProMaster with an underscore and a three.
[04:15.470 --> 04:19.170]  Claiming to be from Iraq, he took the responsibility for defacing the U.S.
[04:19.770 --> 04:20.330]  presidential...
[04:20.330 --> 04:21.470]  Well, the U.S.
[04:21.790 --> 04:22.330]  president's...
[04:22.330 --> 04:23.990]  Donald Trump's website.
[04:24.250 --> 04:25.330]  It happened on Sunday.
[04:25.710 --> 04:38.670]  Now, the website's not directly linked to Trump's presidential campaign fundraising homepage, but the server, secure2.donaldjtrump.com, is behind Cloudflare's content management and security platform.
[04:39.050 --> 04:40.510]  That's according to Ars Technica.
[04:40.670 --> 04:42.910]  So, I guess, you know, we got to take what we can get.
[04:43.190 --> 04:52.890]  But they put on a message there saying, hacked by ProMaster, attacker gov, nothing is impossible, peace from Iraq.
[04:53.390 --> 04:54.890]  That's kind of sweet, don't you think?
[04:55.070 --> 04:56.050]  I think that's all straightforward.
[04:56.050 --> 05:03.630]  And, you know, I've been involved in the latest Hacker Digest, which basically every three months we come out with another volume.
[05:03.650 --> 05:06.410]  And we're up to, I think, volume 14 now.
[05:06.870 --> 05:07.750]  Started at volume one.
[05:07.870 --> 05:09.230]  Every three months we come out with another one.
[05:09.330 --> 05:13.590]  And we're going to make it all the way up to where we are now, which I think is volume 33 of 2600.
[05:13.830 --> 05:15.450]  But volume 14 was 1997.
[05:16.590 --> 05:20.630]  And that was right back when the Free Kevin movement was beginning.
[05:21.310 --> 05:23.730]  And people were hacking webpages left and right.
[05:23.730 --> 05:27.090]  And it was really an interesting way of expressing oneself.
[05:27.490 --> 05:31.330]  Kind of like graffiti, a little bit of vandalism, but easily fixed.
[05:31.570 --> 05:34.510]  But it was spreading like wildfire.
[05:34.510 --> 05:39.090]  And in those pages, a lot of reporting on that.
[05:39.390 --> 05:46.010]  It was a little bit like demo scene almost, where you would do something with a certain amount of time or a certain amount of resources.
[05:46.110 --> 05:51.250]  And it was an artist's impression of whatever it is.
[05:51.250 --> 05:54.790]  My question about that story is, that was not a campaign site.
[05:54.850 --> 05:55.510]  You clarified that.
[05:55.830 --> 05:57.830]  That's a presidential site.
[05:58.470 --> 06:02.330]  Yeah, the one thing this article doesn't tell us is the actual URL of the site.
[06:02.370 --> 06:03.230]  That's what I was looking for.
[06:03.330 --> 06:03.750]  It's a little confusing.
[06:03.790 --> 06:06.690]  But everybody's reporting it, that Donald Trump's website.
[06:06.930 --> 06:09.050]  I'm sure he has more than one website, but...
[06:09.050 --> 06:12.290]  That cloudflare will help, but it's not important.
[06:12.410 --> 06:14.070]  But like I said, we'll take what we can get.
[06:14.230 --> 06:15.250]  Yeah, it's something.
[06:15.550 --> 06:22.250]  Anything that's embarrassing or funny or just getting the word out there to all kinds of people that never would have heard it otherwise.
[06:23.190 --> 06:27.230]  You know, the message, yeah, you can come up with all sorts of different messages.
[06:27.390 --> 06:37.890]  But as long as it's not particularly nasty or vindictive or hateful or destructive, it's freedom of speech.
[06:37.950 --> 06:39.950]  And it's a good way to get the word out.
[06:41.650 --> 06:42.690]  So, what else?
[06:44.170 --> 06:48.030]  Another news, Trump has shut down the White House comment line, as we all know.
[06:48.610 --> 06:49.690]  We do know that, right?
[06:50.370 --> 06:52.050]  Have we not called it on this show?
[06:52.170 --> 06:53.390]  Maybe we haven't called it on this show.
[06:53.710 --> 06:58.430]  We called the White House, the White House comment line, and they told us to go to Facebook?
[06:59.230 --> 07:00.270]  Yeah, we did, yes.
[07:00.330 --> 07:00.510]  Okay, all right.
[07:00.550 --> 07:01.790]  I don't want to do the same thing more than once.
[07:01.790 --> 07:02.770]  It was cryptic.
[07:02.890 --> 07:11.430]  It was cryptic, and no one yet has told us what Facebook link we're supposed to go to to send feedback that will actually be read by somebody.
[07:11.870 --> 07:15.910]  So, odds are, nobody will ever read anything that you have to say.
[07:16.070 --> 07:20.570]  That's why you have to show up at town meetings like is going on all throughout the country today.
[07:21.070 --> 07:22.370]  We were listening to that on the way in.
[07:22.430 --> 07:24.050]  Wow, it's happening, folks.
[07:24.130 --> 07:24.510]  It's happening.
[07:24.610 --> 07:32.330]  People are showing up and confronting their elected representatives and showing quite a bit of anger at the things that are happening.
[07:33.490 --> 07:36.970]  So, this is long overdue, and we'll see the results of it.
[07:37.050 --> 07:39.270]  It's the best way to get your voice out there.
[07:39.390 --> 07:42.810]  If you can't hack a webpage, definitely go down and confront your elected representative.
[07:43.010 --> 07:52.170]  But this particular story has to do with a way to get around this particular thing that the Trump administration has done.
[07:52.550 --> 08:03.690]  Now, visitors to WhiteHouseInc.org are asked for their phone number and then connected with a Donald Trump property.
[08:04.250 --> 08:19.130]  Yeah, you may be asked to make a reservation or a tea time, but what you do is you tell management that until Trump steps away from his businesses for real, their property is no different from the Oval Office, and you want to talk about the issues that matter the most.
[08:19.290 --> 08:24.570]  By not divesting himself from his businesses, he's actually creating satellite White Houses all over the world.
[08:24.730 --> 08:30.270]  That means we have dozens of phone numbers we can use to reach the president and discuss the issues that matter the most.
[08:30.470 --> 08:36.390]  Foreign leaders and Wall Street executives know that if they want to reach out to our president, they can just connect with his business associates.
[08:36.390 --> 08:39.090]  Now, the American people have a direct line to Trump as well.
[08:39.530 --> 08:43.990]  Well, again, the website is WhiteHouseInc.org.
[08:43.990 --> 08:57.330]  Go there and you will have a place to contact, to speak to somebody who has probably nothing to do with the government but will at least be able to hear what you have to say unlike the actual White House.
[08:57.430 --> 08:58.870]  Did you just say WhiteHouseInc?
[09:00.150 --> 09:00.810]  WhiteHouseInc, yes.
[09:00.810 --> 09:01.850]  I thought it was Trump Inc.
[09:02.170 --> 09:02.570]  Well, no.
[09:03.310 --> 09:03.750]  It's...
[09:03.750 --> 09:05.970]  No, WhiteHouseInc.org is the website.
[09:06.270 --> 09:08.310]  So it's like a corporatization?
[09:08.550 --> 09:09.150]  Is that how you're...
[09:09.150 --> 09:10.790]  That's what's happening, yes.
[09:10.790 --> 09:13.390]  It's like investor relations for the U.S.
[09:13.490 --> 09:13.750]  government.
[09:13.950 --> 09:14.730]  Not for the U.S.
[09:14.790 --> 09:16.790]  government, for the presidency, right?
[09:16.950 --> 09:17.170]  Uh-huh.
[09:17.290 --> 09:18.930]  He's basically corporatized the whole thing.
[09:19.090 --> 09:23.410]  If you want to get a little money in on this horse, you use that URL, right?
[09:23.430 --> 09:27.770]  Or just tie up to businesses as much as you possibly can until they get divested for real.
[09:28.030 --> 09:28.470]  Voltaire, go ahead.
[09:28.670 --> 09:32.670]  Yeah, to clarify, WhiteHouseInc is now a wholly owned subsidiary of Trump Inc.
[09:33.210 --> 09:33.470]  Ah.
[09:34.590 --> 09:36.450]  Well, they didn't take over the website, did they?
[09:36.550 --> 09:38.230]  I think the website is the one thing he doesn't own.
[09:38.610 --> 09:39.150]  We'll see.
[09:39.290 --> 09:41.750]  I just look forward to calling that line and waiting for...
[09:41.750 --> 09:44.670]  I think it's probably press one to continue in English, press two to continue in Russian.
[09:45.370 --> 09:45.690]  Uh-huh.
[09:45.750 --> 09:46.050]  Uh-huh.
[09:46.430 --> 09:47.250]  Too soon.
[09:47.430 --> 09:48.270]  Too soon.
[09:48.970 --> 09:49.690]  Or not soon enough.
[09:49.850 --> 09:53.250]  And also, there's this other thing I just read about in today's Daily News.
[09:53.970 --> 09:58.150]  If you want to boycott President Trump, there's an app and an extension for that.
[09:58.290 --> 09:59.650]  It's called Done Good.
[09:59.830 --> 10:05.990]  They're a startup aimed at connecting progressive shoppers with companies that prioritize fair wages and environmental protection.
[10:06.290 --> 10:19.390]  They've added a new Boycott Trump app and a Google Chrome extension to let people know when the companies they're perusing online have in some way supported Trump and they give an alternative more in line with their values.
[10:19.690 --> 10:29.130]  Now, the goal is to tap into the growing Boycott Trump movement where liberals seek to avoid companies that carry Trump products or do business with Trump or are run by Trump supporters.
[10:29.310 --> 10:37.530]  The app and plug-in go a step further suggesting alternate companies who pay their workers well avoid excess pollution and treat animals humanely.
[10:38.450 --> 10:45.170]  So, again, that extension, that startup is called Done Good and you can put it on your phone.
[10:45.170 --> 10:56.490]  You can add it as an extension on Chrome and it's just one of many ways that people are reaching out and figuring out ways of expressing themselves and doing things a little differently.
[10:56.610 --> 10:57.310]  Bernie, what do you think of that?
[10:58.310 --> 10:59.410]  I think that's great.
[10:59.550 --> 11:00.770]  Everybody should...
[11:00.770 --> 11:06.110]  You know, if you have a spare moment, just call one of these numbers and invent.
[11:06.490 --> 11:12.650]  You know, I think there's an opportunity for millions of people to, you know, express your opinion.
[11:12.790 --> 11:16.970]  You can't call the White House anymore and leave your opinion, so call one of these places.
[11:17.130 --> 11:19.750]  I think there's another website, Grab Your Wallet.
[11:19.970 --> 11:31.050]  If you search for that, that's another portal that tells you about what businesses are carrying Trump products so you can express your concerns to those companies.
[11:31.310 --> 11:36.770]  And these companies listen because they don't want to lose business associating themselves with a political figure.
[11:37.030 --> 11:38.590]  That's a death knell for a lot of...
[11:38.590 --> 11:44.910]  Well, not a death knell, but it's just bad business to associate your business with any kind of controversy.
[11:46.350 --> 11:50.790]  So, you know, this is sort of economic democracy.
[11:51.050 --> 11:52.650]  Well, we know what happened in Nordstrom, right?
[11:52.770 --> 11:57.510]  I mean, that was definitely an expression of a tanking product.
[11:57.870 --> 12:01.650]  Yeah, they do a really fantastic job the Grab Your Wallet site.
[12:01.850 --> 12:11.330]  There's a spreadsheet and it just lays it all out, a nice grid so you can see who and what the statements or what the perception is of their support.
[12:11.950 --> 12:13.310]  You also see...
[12:13.310 --> 12:29.570]  I know a couple people I saw online working in different companies are asking ways to get shipping supplies so they would move their company, their entire company, away from using Uline, which provides a lot of shipping supplies and were a proponent of Trump.
[12:29.670 --> 12:30.310]  Oh, Uline.
[12:30.590 --> 12:31.850]  Uline's a proponent of Trump.
[12:31.950 --> 12:32.590]  They are, yeah.
[12:32.730 --> 12:33.910]  They're a massive...
[12:33.910 --> 12:37.510]  They started out as a box-cutting company.
[12:37.730 --> 12:37.990]  Uh-huh.
[12:38.490 --> 12:39.810]  Long story, really long.
[12:40.490 --> 12:47.250]  They've expanded and they have all kinds of shipping supplies and many, many people use Uline, but they are unfortunately...
[12:47.250 --> 12:49.250]  So there's a link between box-cutters and Trump.
[12:49.910 --> 12:50.350]  Yeah.
[12:50.750 --> 12:50.950]  Wow.
[12:51.250 --> 12:52.070]  Box-sizing.
[12:52.290 --> 12:54.390]  It's a special kind of box-cutter, but yeah.
[12:54.630 --> 12:55.230]  Okay, all right.
[12:55.230 --> 12:55.750]  That's interesting.
[12:55.870 --> 12:56.470]  Yeah, go with that.
[12:56.590 --> 12:57.110]  I'll go with that.
[12:57.110 --> 12:58.430]  That sounds a lot better.
[12:58.850 --> 12:59.850]  So there you go, folks.
[12:59.970 --> 13:04.670]  And of course, we'd like your updates and opinions and feedback and ideas.
[13:04.930 --> 13:08.170]  You can write to us othat2600.com.
[13:08.310 --> 13:10.730]  We'd sure like to hear what you have to say.
[13:11.390 --> 13:22.910]  Now, to get on to what we are doing today, we have, as we've mentioned, some business to take care of as far as fundraising for the radio station.
[13:22.910 --> 13:24.130]  This is the Winter Fund Drive.
[13:24.130 --> 13:27.470]  It happens every February and that's where we are right now.
[13:28.190 --> 13:36.430]  So we, since the premium issue has more or less been dealt with, we now have new premiums that we can offer.
[13:36.570 --> 13:40.550]  And we can also pledge that we will be sending these out ourselves as well so you will get them quickly.
[13:41.130 --> 13:52.810]  So we have a couple of different items that we are offering tonight and they both are related directly to the last conference that we held back in July of 2016.
[13:52.810 --> 13:59.870]  The 11th Hope took place Hotel Pennsylvania in the middle of New York City and we had 100 talks of all different kinds.
[14:00.070 --> 14:04.090]  Now, remember, this was right between the Republican and the Democratic conventions.
[14:04.090 --> 14:16.170]  It was before we started this latest national nightmare and we basically were preparing for all sorts of changes and challenges and mischief ahead.
[14:16.830 --> 14:20.770]  And that is reflected in the tone of a lot of these talks.
[14:21.350 --> 14:28.870]  There are technical talks or non-technical talks or social talks, political talks, all sorts of things.
[14:28.870 --> 14:35.290]  It's one of those unique events that happen every two years only here in New York that comprise Hope Conferences.
[14:35.330 --> 14:44.630]  What we are offering tonight for those of you who call 516-620-3602 and pledge a certain amount.
[14:44.810 --> 14:45.910]  We'll give you the amounts in just a moment.
[14:46.590 --> 14:48.910]  You will get all of those talks.
[14:49.050 --> 14:50.010]  Now, you have two choices.
[14:50.430 --> 14:52.570]  The traditional DVD package.
[14:53.790 --> 14:54.250]  DVDs.
[14:54.450 --> 14:55.890]  Digital, versatile discs.
[14:56.530 --> 14:57.890]  They work in DVD players.
[14:57.890 --> 14:58.810]  You can watch them on TV.
[14:58.810 --> 14:59.890]  You can watch them on your computer.
[15:00.670 --> 15:02.970]  And you'll get 100 of them in the mail.
[15:03.210 --> 15:10.210]  100 DVDs in the mail with talks from every single session that we had during that conference.
[15:10.330 --> 15:12.290]  That's for a pledge of $125.
[15:12.670 --> 15:19.510]  Now, we know that many of you have moved on from DVDs into something known as flash drive technology.
[15:19.770 --> 15:28.430]  So, we are offering a 128 gig flash drive filled with every single talk from the 11th Hope as well.
[15:28.750 --> 15:31.510]  And that is yours for a pledge of $75.
[15:32.230 --> 15:33.270]  So, you get...
[15:33.270 --> 15:34.470]  And you can copy these files.
[15:34.670 --> 15:39.830]  You can copy all the files off of the flash drive and then have 128 gig flash drive, which is, you know, nothing to sneeze at.
[15:40.290 --> 15:46.590]  But you have all these files that you can copy to your heart's content and share with friends and post, do whatnot.
[15:47.550 --> 15:50.650]  Again, 516-620-3602.
[15:50.650 --> 15:53.870]  You have a choice of a $75 pledge or a $125 pledge.
[15:53.870 --> 15:57.510]  But the important thing is, you're supporting the radio station, keeping us going.
[15:57.510 --> 16:05.170]  We're donating these amazing premiums to the station so that 99.5 FM stays on the air for many years to come.
[16:05.430 --> 16:13.930]  And just to point out for those who may not know us very well that these files are completely unencrypted, non-DRM, not protected in any way.
[16:13.990 --> 16:18.090]  You can freely convert them to whatever other formats you might need, whatever other devices you might want to use them on.
[16:18.230 --> 16:20.130]  If you get the DVDs, they're region-free.
[16:20.590 --> 16:26.070]  We don't believe in locking certain people away from viewing our materials.
[16:26.330 --> 16:32.470]  So, yes, region-free DVDs, DRM-free digital files, and all that can be yours.
[16:32.470 --> 16:36.410]  We don't believe if your last name is Trump, you can look at our videos.
[16:36.550 --> 16:38.290]  We will not prevent you from doing that.
[16:38.390 --> 16:39.030]  You can do that.
[16:39.490 --> 16:39.850]  Yeah.
[16:40.110 --> 16:40.750]  It doesn't matter.
[16:41.330 --> 16:42.190]  Anybody can...
[16:42.190 --> 16:44.430]  It's completely compatible with anyone's eyes.
[16:44.550 --> 16:49.610]  I will also say they're verified as far as being accurate, and we went through and checked.
[16:49.730 --> 16:51.110]  We spent a lot of time making sure...
[16:51.110 --> 16:52.390]  Those are the talks that took place.
[16:52.470 --> 16:53.390]  We made sure that.
[16:53.610 --> 17:06.410]  As you might assume, a lot of things go on during the events, and we get what we get at the end of it, and we want to do a really good job curating all of these stories, all of these incredible academic conversations.
[17:06.410 --> 17:09.650]  and a big part of that is preserving it.
[17:09.870 --> 17:13.870]  So I know, E, you spent quite a bit of time looking at that stuff.
[17:13.970 --> 17:21.190]  I stitched together at least a talk or two dealing with audio sync and other technical things that come from running a live event.
[17:21.190 --> 17:27.750]  So it's really important to us to get the information out in a beautiful and intact way, and this is part of that.
[17:27.750 --> 17:32.930]  The real thanks goes to Internet Society who put this together would not have had the...
[17:32.930 --> 17:34.090]  Did I mention it was in HD?
[17:34.350 --> 17:37.250]  We never did HD before, but these are HD videos.
[17:37.930 --> 17:39.090]  It's really incredible.
[17:39.910 --> 17:40.930]  But you know what?
[17:40.990 --> 17:41.990]  Don't take my word for it.
[17:42.510 --> 17:53.370]  We are going to play a couple of excerpts so you can see for yourself the kinds of things that we were doing at this conference because it really was a pivotal point in hacker history, social history, political history, you name it.
[17:53.890 --> 17:54.930]  It's a whole lot of fun.
[17:54.990 --> 18:09.050]  We do it every two years, and I think honestly what we're asking for for these either flash drives or DVDs, it's worth it for just one of these talks, but you're getting a hundred of them.
[18:09.250 --> 18:11.710]  So it's really unbelievably amazing.
[18:12.190 --> 18:24.030]  This particular talk actually is from Biela Coleman who gave a talk on how anonymous, the group anonymous, narrowly evaded being framed as cyber terrorists.
[18:24.150 --> 18:25.930]  Now, we did the synopsis here.
[18:25.930 --> 18:36.910]  Over the years, Biela has used many different words and phrases to describe anonymous, confusing, enchanting, controversial, frustrating, unpredictable, stupid, and really stupid, and others.
[18:37.110 --> 18:42.810]  But rarely has she ever argued seriously against the idea that anonymous is tantamount to cyber terrorism.
[18:43.090 --> 18:49.210]  How did anonymous avoid the title of cyber terrorist when they were perfectly positioned to earn it?
[18:49.910 --> 19:02.310]  She discusses the reasons, such as the adoption of the Guy Fawkes mask, the timing of their most important operations, the role of pop cultural representations of hackers like Mr. Robot that allowed them to narrowly escape this designation.
[19:02.850 --> 19:04.370]  Really, really interesting stuff.
[19:04.470 --> 19:05.790]  This is just one of the talks.
[19:06.250 --> 19:16.630]  We're going to play a very short excerpt from that, but please, while this is playing, give a call to 516-620-3602, pledge a $75.
[19:16.630 --> 19:20.290]  you'll get a flash drive with all 100 talks in full HD.
[19:20.650 --> 19:28.410]  Or for $125, you'll get 100 DVDs in the mail, again, with every single talk from The 11th Hope.
[19:28.590 --> 19:37.290]  So let's take a listen to a little bit of the talk on how anonymous narrowly evaded being framed as cyber terrorists.
[19:39.690 --> 19:40.850]  I hit the wrong button.
[19:40.870 --> 19:41.270]  I'm sorry.
[19:42.170 --> 19:43.610]  Let's try that again.
[19:43.610 --> 19:44.610]  All right.
[19:44.770 --> 19:46.150]  Back to the United States.
[19:47.210 --> 19:52.210]  This example is a depressing example concerning Black Lives Matters.
[19:52.790 --> 19:58.070]  Certain police have sort of tagged the movement as being a terrorist movement.
[19:58.770 --> 20:01.330]  And, you know, that's maybe not too surprising.
[20:01.660 --> 20:10.190]  What maybe was a little bit more surprising was that there was a petition to formally recognize Black Lives Matter as a terrorist organization.
[20:10.430 --> 20:17.230]  And they did get 100,000 signatures needed for the White House to respond.
[20:17.430 --> 20:23.430]  Thankfully, you know, they did not designate Black Lives Matter as a terrorist organization.
[20:23.670 --> 20:27.250]  So a lot of these examples are unsuccessful.
[20:27.570 --> 20:28.190]  They haven't stuck.
[20:28.310 --> 20:30.730]  They're being used, right, but they don't stick.
[20:30.930 --> 20:32.890]  They're like jello thrown against the wall.
[20:33.090 --> 20:35.570]  But now I'm going to give you an example that did stick.
[20:35.670 --> 20:40.390]  And I think it's an important one because it's kind of in some ways the cautionary tale that made me think about this.
[20:40.390 --> 20:44.790]  And it has to do with animal rights activists and environmental activists.
[20:44.910 --> 20:48.690]  And there's a really great book called Green is the New Red by Will Potter.
[20:49.570 --> 21:01.930]  And in there, he makes the argument, again, not a surprise here, that since September 11th, the word terrorism has been stretched and pulled and hemmed and cuffed and torn and mended to fit a growing body of political whims.
[21:02.090 --> 21:14.490]  And there's no other group in the United States that has suffered most from this hemming and cutting and application than the environmental rights movement, the radical movement.
[21:15.130 --> 21:30.610]  And in specific, in 2004, John Lewis, who was involved with the FBI, basically designated eco-terrorism as the number one domestic terrorist threat in the United States.
[21:30.870 --> 21:38.550]  And this was no joke because two years after this was declared, what happened next was particularly important.
[21:38.930 --> 21:46.950]  A law called the Animal Enterprise Protection Act became the Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act.
[21:47.170 --> 21:56.050]  And this applies to anyone who intentionally damages or causes the loss of any real or personal property used by an animal enterprise.
[21:56.370 --> 22:06.330]  And so, for example, recently, not too long ago, some animal rights activists have released some minks from a farm and they are charged as terrorists.
[22:06.750 --> 22:13.870]  Now, some of you may be wondering, has there been loss of life because of animal rights activists, right, here around the world?
[22:13.970 --> 22:26.410]  Well, here's a little chart which shows that actually there hasn't been any loss of life, no murders, yes, some arson, which is pretty hardcore.
[22:26.590 --> 22:30.610]  The great majority of action has been vandalism.
[22:30.610 --> 22:40.630]  But precisely because the law was changed, precisely because there was a really concerted campaign, monkey-wrenching saboteur is the same as terrorists.
[22:41.370 --> 22:48.730]  And, you know, some of Anonymous's actions definitely fit under monkey-wrenching and sabotage, right?
[22:48.770 --> 22:55.610]  So it's not too far-fetched to conceive that Anonymous could have been tagged as terrorists.
[22:56.050 --> 23:01.390]  Now, I'm going to finish my animal rights story with a kind of very shocking example.
[23:01.910 --> 23:11.410]  And it's a shocking example because there was a handful of people called the SHAC-7 who were initially convicted under the Animal Enterprise Act.
[23:11.550 --> 23:15.410]  Some of the sentencing happened under the Terrorism Act.
[23:16.350 --> 23:22.410]  And they wanted to shut down the notorious animal testing lab, Huntington Life Sciences.
[23:22.770 --> 23:32.510]  And as you can read in this quote, I'm not going to read it full, but what's interesting about the SHAC-7 was that none of them were involved in sabotage or monkey-wrenching.
[23:32.670 --> 23:37.170]  They ran the website which advocated for animal liberation.
[23:37.590 --> 23:44.930]  And in fact, there was a strict division where if you ran the website, you didn't engage in those acts, right, to kind of protect yourself.
[23:45.170 --> 23:53.910]  Well, many of these folks went to jail for many years simply for running the website and advocating for animal liberation.
[23:53.910 --> 23:57.790]  in part because they couldn't get the actual saboteurs, right?
[23:58.030 --> 24:01.570]  So to me, this is really like as bad as it can get.
[24:01.970 --> 24:04.850]  So that's the kind of general set of reasons.
[24:04.850 --> 24:08.370]  But now I want to like dive into the technological reasons.
[24:08.490 --> 24:13.290]  I want to dive into Anonymous to talk about why they were well-positioned to earn the title.
[24:13.690 --> 24:18.450]  Well, again, no one here is going to see this as a surprise.
[24:18.510 --> 24:29.050]  Everyone has heard of the great tale of Cyber Pearl Harbor where one day there will be a catastrophic attack against infrastructure.
[24:30.050 --> 24:32.570]  And it has not yet happened.
[24:33.090 --> 24:39.410]  And most people here know that since 9-11 the rhetoric around Cyber Pearl Harbor has intensified.
[24:39.410 --> 24:43.230]  But it's existed actually for a pretty long time.
[24:43.410 --> 24:47.390]  And by this I mean the association between cyber attacks and terrorism.
[24:47.610 --> 24:51.870]  One of the first associations between the two came in 1991.
[24:52.290 --> 24:55.070]  Again, well before 9-11.
[24:55.370 --> 25:00.730]  In this report which was a government report about computers at risk.
[25:01.150 --> 25:04.750]  And it's the last sentence here that's relevant.
[25:04.870 --> 25:09.610]  Tomorrow's terrorists may be able to do more damage with a keyboard than with a bomb.
[25:09.770 --> 25:10.230]  Right?
[25:10.450 --> 25:14.090]  And again leading to Cyber Pearl Harbor.
[25:14.890 --> 25:26.190]  Now another factor I think has to do with the fact that anonymous was engaged especially in 2011 and parts of 2012 in high risk hacking.
[25:26.590 --> 25:33.290]  You know they were doing many different things but they were certainly hacking into companies taking emails deleting files.
[25:34.190 --> 25:43.330]  And Corey Doctorow who is our keynote at Hope has described the hacking in these terms which I think are pretty accurate.
[25:43.570 --> 25:55.470]  He says and the kind of hacking that anonymous does by means of the fluid structureless norms of the group half macho posturing half uber savvy media prankstership is doubly exciting or exciting squared.
[25:55.490 --> 26:03.630]  It's filled with drama betrayals police informants intimidation brinkmanship insane risk taking and impassioned speeches from the battlements right?
[26:03.870 --> 26:26.890]  No joke groups like LULSEC and ANTISEC were hacking into NATO they were telling the FBI every week to fuck off exactly and you know I actually during this period was having nightmares that the FBI was going to visit me as someone who studied them right?
[26:27.170 --> 26:46.670]  This was no child's play and attempts were made to tag Anonymous as terrorists and this is what I'm going to now talk about so for those that may not remember Anonymous attacked a security firm called H.B.
[26:46.790 --> 26:59.030]  Gary after one of its employees Aaron Barr had boasted that he had infiltrated Anonymous and was going to give up the names to the FBI and well Anonymous in one evening entered into H.B.
[26:59.130 --> 27:26.130]  Gary took all their emails put them online deleted everything else right it caused like major embarrassment to the company in fact the company shut down and the president Greg Hoogland this is what he had to say to a reporter he said they're causing me a great deal of pain right now what they're not what they're doing right now is not hacktivism it was before now it's terrorism right so this word
[27:26.130 --> 27:31.950]  was actually thrown out in this period Okay, we're gonna have to stop there because it just gets too interesting.
[27:32.110 --> 27:36.890]  And we will just have to take over the entire entire schedule of the radio station here.
[27:37.050 --> 27:46.910]  That was an excerpt, an all too brief excerpt from the Biela Coleman talk at the 11th Hope last summer, how anonymous narrowly evaded being framed as cyber terrorist.
[27:47.310 --> 27:54.270]  And boy, that's that's one of my favorites, where she goes into very specific detail as to all the things that have been going on.
[27:54.390 --> 28:02.870]  She's done a lot of research on anonymous and what they what they stand for, how they operate, and the reaction to them.
[28:03.070 --> 28:08.310]  And certainly the use of the word terrorist is something that is bandied about quite a bit.
[28:08.830 --> 28:11.550]  And it's something we should be very concerned about.
[28:12.430 --> 28:18.950]  And that's, that's one of the great things about hope is that you get subjects like this anonymous, which is something that's very easy to get wrong.
[28:19.070 --> 28:23.150]  It's very sort of gauzy and hard to get hold of even in the mainstream media.
[28:23.310 --> 28:30.750]  But here's someone who has done the who has done her homework, who has done the research, and who can explain it in, in a really, in a really compelling way.
[28:30.950 --> 28:32.710]  And you get you get that at hope.
[28:32.830 --> 28:36.730]  It's topics that you didn't know you didn't know anything about until you're presented with them.
[28:37.470 --> 28:39.330]  516-620-3602.
[28:39.530 --> 28:45.290]  Please call that number now get your copy of that talk and 99 others either flash drive or DVD.
[28:46.190 --> 28:47.150]  Sorry, did I interrupt you?
[28:47.270 --> 28:47.830]  Do you have more?
[28:48.210 --> 28:59.910]  No, I'm just gonna say and that's, that's the sort of thing that you'll find in all in all 100 of these talks, not just about anonymous, but about all kinds of things across the entire world of, of technology, of, of activism and everything.
[29:00.030 --> 29:06.170]  For a $75 pledge, you get these 100 talks in full HD as MP4s that you can copy left and right.
[29:06.970 --> 29:08.770]  And that's for a pledge of $75.
[29:08.810 --> 29:11.610]  For 125, you get 100 DVDs.
[29:11.690 --> 29:13.650]  In both cases, you also get audio files too.
[29:13.830 --> 29:18.170]  So if you want the audio files as well, there is a section just for those.
[29:18.170 --> 29:25.390]  But this is the ultimate collection for what I think is the best conference of last year.
[29:25.930 --> 29:28.350]  And that's not really surprising when the Hope Conference rolls around.
[29:28.470 --> 29:36.270]  We always get such a diverse and interesting group of people, both technologically and socially and just coming up with ideas.
[29:36.270 --> 29:38.530]  That's, that's what the hacker world is all about.
[29:38.830 --> 29:41.390]  516-620-3602.
[29:41.750 --> 29:44.890]  Be sure to ask for the 11th Hope flash drive.
[29:44.890 --> 29:48.050]  You have to phrase it that way, or the 11th Hope DVD collection.
[29:48.870 --> 29:51.110]  100 DVD collection, I believe, is the official name.
[29:51.910 --> 29:56.770]  Call that number, 516-620-3602, and a smiling person will pick up the phone and help you.
[29:56.930 --> 29:59.830]  And before you know it, you'll get an amazing package in the mail.
[29:59.870 --> 30:04.910]  We're also online at give2wbai.org.
[30:05.050 --> 30:06.250]  That's right, the numeral 2.
[30:06.490 --> 30:08.250]  Although I think the word 2 is also...
[30:08.250 --> 30:09.230]  Either spelling works now.
[30:09.370 --> 30:10.190]  Okay, well, that's good.
[30:10.270 --> 30:11.050]  Bernie, what did you think of that?
[30:12.210 --> 30:13.250]  That was a great talk.
[30:13.250 --> 30:17.070]  I was not able to catch that one, because there's so much going on at Hope.
[30:17.310 --> 30:19.770]  But now you can, now you can, you can simply watch it.
[30:20.290 --> 30:20.850]  Exactly, exactly.
[30:21.450 --> 30:29.450]  Anyone who even attended the 11th Hope, and there were thousands of really amazing people there, it's great to be there in person, but you can't catch all the talks.
[30:29.670 --> 30:35.370]  We have multiple tracks going on simultaneously, and it's physically impossible to catch all the talks.
[30:35.370 --> 30:45.630]  So even if you were there, and even if you actually witnessed this great talk by Gabrielle Coleman, you, it's great to play it back again, because you, you know, you miss stuff.
[30:45.890 --> 30:48.070]  It's just an amazing amount of content.
[30:48.270 --> 30:55.670]  Today I was perusing the list of speakers that, that came and spoke at the 11th Hope.
[30:55.670 --> 31:08.870]  And these are individual speakers and people that spoke on panels on such an incredible first class lineup of very knowledgeable people who've done some excellent research and who really know what they're talking about.
[31:08.870 --> 31:11.490]  And we've got more than a hundred hours.
[31:11.590 --> 31:12.790]  Some of these talks are more than an hour.
[31:12.890 --> 31:13.030]  Yes.
[31:13.030 --> 31:19.950]  We've got more than a hundred hours of, of really excellent content about all kinds of topics.
[31:20.190 --> 31:21.190]  It's not just about hacking.
[31:21.430 --> 31:29.270]  It's about, really about the issues that a lot of WBAI listeners really care about and affect them.
[31:29.710 --> 31:30.170]  So...
[31:30.170 --> 31:30.550]  Go ahead.
[31:30.730 --> 31:31.090]  Go ahead.
[31:31.350 --> 31:36.470]  Well, I was going to say, you were touching upon the wide variety of talks that we have.
[31:36.570 --> 31:37.610]  I just want to read you some titles.
[31:37.610 --> 31:40.930]  Biology for hackers and hacking for biology.
[31:41.270 --> 31:42.610]  I hacked for China.
[31:42.770 --> 31:50.530]  The future of freaking, what the hack, perceptions of hackers and cyber criminals and popular culture had a torrent of pharmaceutical drug.
[31:51.210 --> 31:56.330]  Mate hacking, legalizing autonomous production and permaculture, establishing a hack farm.
[31:56.510 --> 31:59.810]  Who's killing crypto when vulnerability disclosure turns ugly?
[31:59.990 --> 32:01.750]  Only you can stop police surveillance.
[32:01.930 --> 32:02.470]  Here's how.
[32:02.890 --> 32:04.550]  Show networks is the brain.
[32:04.730 --> 32:06.210]  The next hackable driver.
[32:06.210 --> 32:09.350]  De-anonymizing Bitcoin, one transaction at a time.
[32:09.550 --> 32:11.610]  The Panama Papers and the law firm behind it.
[32:11.750 --> 32:14.430]  Ask the EFF, the Year in Digital Civil Liberties.
[32:14.570 --> 32:17.010]  Your level-building tool is our soundstage.
[32:17.230 --> 32:18.730]  Chinese mechanical locks.
[32:18.930 --> 32:21.050]  Insight into a hidden world of locks.
[32:21.370 --> 32:24.390]  The securitization of cyberspace and its impact on human rights.
[32:24.650 --> 32:25.630]  Car hacking tools.
[32:25.910 --> 32:26.610]  The Onion Report.
[32:26.810 --> 32:27.650]  Crypto War 2.
[32:27.830 --> 32:28.670]  Updates from the trenches.
[32:28.990 --> 32:29.550]  Censorship.
[32:29.710 --> 32:30.310]  Social media.
[32:30.310 --> 32:31.650]  And the presidential election.
[32:32.130 --> 32:32.570]  Accessibility.
[32:32.690 --> 32:34.430]  A creative challenge to living without sight.
[32:36.150 --> 32:38.730]  That's only the first day.
[32:38.750 --> 32:40.330]  And I didn't even get to evening yet.
[32:41.170 --> 32:43.070]  There's so many more just for the first day.
[32:43.390 --> 32:45.090]  I only made it to 5 o'clock.
[32:45.090 --> 32:49.310]  This is just a sample of what you will get.
[32:49.470 --> 32:57.170]  If you call 516-620-3602 and pledge your support to WBAI, $75 gets you all the talks on a flash drive.
[32:57.970 --> 33:00.150]  $125 gets you all the talks on DVD.
[33:00.450 --> 33:06.610]  In both cases, they're full HD quality and fascinating from start to finish.
[33:06.790 --> 33:08.230]  I want to play another excerpt.
[33:08.370 --> 33:09.550]  But go ahead, Kyle.
[33:09.550 --> 33:17.390]  That last excerpt, really well-illustrated stuff that we've been saying since, I think, the turn of the century.
[33:17.550 --> 33:17.730]  Wow.
[33:18.830 --> 33:27.870]  That terrorism as a result of 9-11 was going to be perversed and stretched.
[33:28.300 --> 33:35.870]  And the scope of who would be defined as such continued to grow.
[33:35.870 --> 33:37.690]  And here we are with that.
[33:37.690 --> 33:53.690]  So if you've been involved in hacking for a long time and you're just getting back into it, this would be a great way to fast forward and hear stuff that we've been saying very early on in that kind of new post-9-11 era.
[33:54.110 --> 34:04.810]  And this stuff is relevant and really illustrates how it's converging and that term is bringing in other people.
[34:04.810 --> 34:06.450]  And if you're new to this stuff...
[34:06.450 --> 34:10.290]  Badger, Lockspin, Roadshow, Smart Cities and Blockchains, How to Start a Crypt...
[34:10.290 --> 34:11.590]  I'm sorry, I was reading all the titles still.
[34:11.970 --> 34:13.110]  Carpet Sample on the Wall.
[34:13.350 --> 34:14.810]  Coding by Voice, Mesh VPN.
[34:15.370 --> 34:16.230]  Oh, no, I'm sorry.
[34:16.290 --> 34:17.430]  That's the soundproofing here.
[34:17.590 --> 34:17.750]  Yeah.
[34:18.330 --> 34:19.970]  No, there is just so much here.
[34:20.090 --> 34:20.950]  There is so much here.
[34:21.410 --> 34:22.670]  And we have so little time.
[34:22.670 --> 34:30.330]  And so we have to race to hear this excerpt from Corey Doctorow, our keynote, who was really awesome as well.
[34:30.850 --> 34:33.930]  Please call 516-620-3602.
[34:34.010 --> 34:35.090]  Show your support.
[34:35.170 --> 34:41.030]  Pledge for the 11th Hope Flash Drive or the 11th Hope 100 DVD Collection or both if you really feel like it.
[34:41.450 --> 34:44.350]  And we will get that out to you right away.
[34:44.470 --> 34:46.790]  516-620-3602.
[34:46.910 --> 34:47.670]  Here's something from Corey.
[34:51.600 --> 34:52.220]  Thank you.
[34:52.280 --> 34:53.460]  Thank you all very much.
[34:53.600 --> 34:54.180]  Thank you for coming.
[34:54.320 --> 34:54.860]  Thank you, Emanuel.
[34:56.020 --> 34:57.100]  Oh, you got the slides up.
[34:57.180 --> 34:57.580]  There we go.
[34:58.000 --> 34:58.860]  So, hi, folks.
[34:59.020 --> 35:02.860]  It's a genuine pleasure and honor to finally get to Hope.
[35:03.080 --> 35:06.220]  I've been trying to come, as Emanuel said, for more than a decade.
[35:06.220 --> 35:13.260]  I've had, like, planes canceled and been kidnapped by my wife for my birthday weekend and lots of other reasons I haven't been able to come.
[35:13.300 --> 35:19.600]  And it's such a pleasure and an honor to be here at Hope in New York after all these years of admiring it from afar.
[35:19.600 --> 35:21.660]  I'm reading 2,600 since I was a teenager.
[35:22.840 --> 35:27.700]  So, after this talk, just as a heads up, they've given me a really big, generous block of time.
[35:27.800 --> 35:29.260]  So, there's going to be lots of time for Q&A.
[35:29.920 --> 35:31.180]  There's an audience mic.
[35:31.320 --> 35:37.240]  And I like to alternate between people who identify as female or non-binary and people who identify as male or non-binary.
[35:37.300 --> 35:38.880]  So, I'm going to call on you in that way.
[35:39.060 --> 35:41.560]  A heads up now to start thinking about questions.
[35:42.020 --> 35:44.340]  Long, rambling statements followed by what do you think of that?
[35:44.880 --> 35:46.560]  Technically a question, but not a good one.
[35:46.560 --> 35:49.740]  So, just start...
[35:50.560 --> 35:51.120]  Yeah.
[35:52.100 --> 35:53.100]  Start thinking about that.
[35:54.420 --> 36:00.100]  So, as you can see from the slide here, I want to talk today about different kinds of arguments.
[36:00.400 --> 36:09.760]  Because in the world of information security, hacking, civil liberties, technology, we have a lot of serious, deep, significant, good faith arguments.
[36:09.760 --> 36:18.620]  Arguments about whether or not we should be stressing the utilitarian instrumental benefits and calling it open source, or the moral benefits and calling it free software.
[36:18.860 --> 36:21.480]  Those are good, meaty arguments to be having.
[36:21.660 --> 36:23.940]  But there's a different kind of argument.
[36:24.240 --> 36:26.780]  The denialism kind of argument.
[36:27.260 --> 36:35.180]  These are the debates that are manufactured by people who profit from controversy over something that's not actually controversial.
[36:35.180 --> 36:38.700]  And the canonical example of this is smoking.
[36:39.920 --> 36:45.500]  The cancer denial movement was kind of the template for all the denial movements that followed.
[36:45.800 --> 37:03.360]  And, you know, if cancer was kind of the warm-up, the kind of mega-death that followed on cancer from denialism really showed that there was, like, no limit to how many people's lives you could destroy just by pretending that something that was true was instead controversial and unknown.
[37:03.360 --> 37:07.660]  You know, the AIDS denial movement was a particularly toxic version of this.
[37:07.820 --> 37:15.580]  There was a German doctor named Matthias Roth who owned a big vitamin company and who claimed that AIDS wasn't caused by HIV.
[37:15.580 --> 37:18.140]  He claimed it was caused by vitamin deficiency.
[37:18.140 --> 37:26.480]  And he ran these ads in South African newspapers saying things like, why should South Africans continue to be poisoned with AZT?
[37:26.820 --> 37:45.900]  And that would be bad enough, but he was a crony of the president of South Africa at the time, Thabo Mbeki, and they adopted the official policy along with the South African Ministry of Health that AIDS was a vitamin deficiency and that antiretroviral drugs would not be the standard treatment for AIDS in South Africa.
[37:46.380 --> 37:50.720]  And because it was a vitamin deficiency, it also wasn't treated as a sexually transmissible illness.
[37:51.040 --> 37:54.520]  And so during that period, 300,000 people died.
[37:54.520 --> 38:08.660]  And the population of HIV-positive people, which started at 1% in South Africa by the end of this, by the time they recognized that AIDS denial and that AIDS was the expression of HIV, that population went from 1% to 25%.
[38:09.820 --> 38:20.040]  And, you know, part of the kind of playbook for denial is that when people say that the thing that we know is true is true, you have to silence them.
[38:20.040 --> 38:34.680]  And so when Ben Goldacre wrote this up for The Guardian, he's an eminent epidemiologist, when he wrote it up for The Guardian, Matthias Roth sued him for libel, and The Guardian spent hundreds of thousands of pounds and eventually prevailed and were able to publish this story.
[38:34.960 --> 38:52.060]  And so that is a kind of template we see over and over again in public debates, the kind of bad faith argument where experts all agree that something is true, and yet, in some important official circle, we act as though it's still an open question.
[38:52.340 --> 38:54.720]  So, you know, you know about climate denial, obviously.
[38:54.960 --> 39:01.840]  But there's another kind of denial that this community has to deal with extensively, and that's a Turing completeness denial.
[39:04.060 --> 39:07.020]  So, it's a funny name, but it's real, right?
[39:07.140 --> 39:09.680]  And so there are a lot of expressions of Turing completeness denial.
[39:09.820 --> 39:19.700]  The denial that, like, computers can run all the programs that we can express in symbolic language, that we don't know how to make a computer that can run all the programs except for the ones you don't like.
[39:20.340 --> 39:28.740]  So, you know, a good kind of long-running example of this, and one that I'm going to return to in this talk a few times, is digital rights management or digital restrictions management.
[39:28.940 --> 39:47.620]  So, the idea that you can build a computer that you can send a cipher text to, and then you can send the keys to, and then you can ask the computer to make sure that the owner never sees the keys, and doesn't get to save the clear text when the keys and the cipher text are combined,
[39:48.100 --> 39:48.220]  right?
[39:48.440 --> 39:56.400]  That's like, in security, we have a technical term for that security model, where you give the keys to the adversary, and then hope the adversary doesn't find out what they are.
[39:56.480 --> 39:58.300]  We call that wishful thinking, right?
[39:58.300 --> 40:03.580]  Like, if we made the best safe in the world, we wouldn't keep it in the bank robber's living room.
[40:03.960 --> 40:11.140]  And if you make the greatest DRM system in the world, it will fail because you are sending your adversaries the keys.
[40:11.260 --> 40:12.720]  It's not Alice and Bob and Carol.
[40:12.900 --> 40:17.160]  Alice and Bob trust each other, and Carol is trying to man in the middle of their communication.
[40:17.340 --> 40:18.560]  It's just Alice and Bob, right?
[40:18.660 --> 40:21.420]  Like, Bob is Netflix, and we're all Alice.
[40:21.640 --> 40:26.920]  And Bob wants to send us a scrambled movie and make sure we can't save it for offline viewing.
[40:27.660 --> 40:35.980]  And anyone who wants to can become Alice just by getting a Netflix subscription, which I know it went up by, like, a dollar this month, but it's still not hard to become Alice.
[40:36.160 --> 40:50.920]  Alice can be like bored grad students with their own electron-tunneling microscopes and a whole bunch of undergrads hanging around with nothing to do, like a bad smell, who can just go through the code one line at a time, go through the computer one register at a time until they find that key.
[40:51.460 --> 40:56.460]  And so, you know, DRM fails all the time, but we pretend that it still works.
[40:56.920 --> 40:59.900]  Or crypto backdoors, you know, this is a subject that's...
[40:59.900 --> 41:01.920]  everything new is old again, everything old is new again.
[41:02.080 --> 41:03.580]  We're back to crypto backdoors again.
[41:03.720 --> 41:18.120]  The idea that we can make a crypto system that keeps all our secrets perfectly and forever, except when we need it to fail catastrophically, and then it fails catastrophically just for one minute, long enough for good people to be able to discramble the message,
[41:18.380 --> 41:21.280]  and then it reasserts itself and starts working again, right?
[41:21.280 --> 41:25.420]  We know that that doesn't work if we know anything about crypto.
[41:25.580 --> 41:28.400]  And yet there's, like, amazingly a live debate, right?
[41:28.520 --> 41:42.440]  People who are serious people who get paid lots of money and get to make decisions, who say with perfectly straight faces that we know how to make that crypto system, and it's just that the nerds are, like, hiding it from us.
[41:42.780 --> 41:45.540]  Or privacy denial, right?
[41:45.540 --> 41:54.800]  This idea that we can, like, collect lots of data and retain it indefinitely, and that it won't leak, and if it does leak, nothing bad will happen, right?
[41:54.840 --> 42:09.480]  The idea that if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear, that it's the same thing for you to drive down a street with a car that has a license plate as it is for that car to have its license plate photographed every 100 yards, and then for those photographs to be subjected to OCR,
[42:09.500 --> 42:13.600]  and then for the records of all the places that you've been to be stored indefinitely, right?
[42:13.600 --> 42:19.780]  These are clearly not the same thing, And there are clearly harms that can arise from it, and yet we treat them as though we're equivalent, right?
[42:19.780 --> 42:24.580]  We say that everything that's not secret is therefore not private.
[42:24.760 --> 42:27.500]  But there's lots of things that aren't secret that are still private, right?
[42:27.560 --> 42:30.680]  Like, I know what you do when you go to the toilet, right?
[42:30.720 --> 42:35.460]  It's not a secret, and yet it takes a very special person not to want to close the door behind them.
[42:37.900 --> 42:41.760]  I know what your parents did to make you, right?
[42:42.400 --> 42:51.440]  And yet, most of us, you know, it's cool if you don't want to do that in private, but it's not any of my business if you choose to do it in private.
[42:51.700 --> 42:56.720]  Private isn't that no one knows your business, it's that you get to choose who knows your business.
[42:58.080 --> 43:02.700]  And the problem with denial is that it begets nihilism.
[43:04.180 --> 43:08.760]  Denial matters because the things that we deny are real, right?
[43:08.760 --> 43:10.060]  Climate change is real.
[43:10.320 --> 43:11.620]  Cigarettes cause cancer.
[43:12.020 --> 43:13.740]  HIV is not vitamin deficiency.
[43:14.040 --> 43:17.520]  We can't make computers that run all the programs except for the ones that piss you off.
[43:17.840 --> 43:23.120]  And so the non-solutions that are demanded by denial don't solve the problem.
[43:23.380 --> 43:26.100]  And the problem festers, and it gets worse.
[43:26.640 --> 43:37.320]  And because we're not solving the underlying problem, and yet we're pretending that we're solving the problem, the problem is that our non-solution is actually worse than doing nothing at all, right?
[43:38.340 --> 43:46.600]  It's worse than doing nothing about cigarettes and cancer to think that smoking light cigarettes won't give you cancer, right?
[43:46.660 --> 43:56.260]  Because it takes people who think that they're mitigating their harms and puts them in exactly as much harm's way as they would have been if they'd gone on doing the same thing.
[43:56.380 --> 43:59.700]  It's like having someone whose car has faulty brakes.
[44:00.140 --> 44:06.280]  If they know their car's brakes are faulty, they can take steps to remediate that fault.
[44:06.280 --> 44:07.760]  They can drive more slowly.
[44:07.920 --> 44:09.360]  They can increase their following distance.
[44:09.620 --> 44:15.080]  But if you don't know that your car's brakes are faulty, the way that you find out is in the hardest way possible.
[44:15.360 --> 44:23.380]  So telling people that their problem isn't a problem makes things worse, worse than if they knew that it was a problem and did nothing at all about it.
[44:23.920 --> 44:32.780]  You know, people who think that AIDS is caused by vitamin deficiency have unprotected sex, even though they know that they have AIDS, right?
[44:32.780 --> 44:36.660]  And that's how you go from 1% to 25% infection rate.
[44:36.860 --> 44:40.580]  If you deny climate change, you build houses on floodplains.
[44:41.540 --> 44:46.320]  And then the floods come and it's worse than doing nothing at all.
[44:46.460 --> 44:57.800]  If you deny touring completeness, then you go around and you tell artists sweet lies about the day that will come when the internet will somehow be worse at copying, right?
[44:57.800 --> 44:59.340]  That day is never going to come.
[44:59.560 --> 45:00.220]  This is it, right?
[45:00.560 --> 45:07.120]  July 22nd, 2016, remember this day because it doesn't get harder from here on in, right?
[45:07.400 --> 45:28.820]  Your grandchildren and great-grandchildren will marvel at how hard it was to copy stuff in 2016 and will ask you, tell me again, Grandma, tell me again, Grandpa, about 2016 when you couldn't go into a CVS and buy six thumb drives for a dollar, each of which could hold all of the words ever spoken and all the paintings ever painted and all the songs ever sung and all the movies ever made.
[45:28.940 --> 45:38.500]  Tell me when, like, all of the retirees hadn't gone to free classes at the library to teach them the magic incantation, movie name space BitTorrent, right?
[45:41.040 --> 45:42.200]  So this is it, right?
[45:42.260 --> 45:43.640]  Like, it doesn't get harder to copy.
[45:43.780 --> 45:45.120]  And so we go around and we tell...
[45:45.120 --> 45:51.520]  because of touring completeness denial, we tell artists that someday it will be harder to copy than it is now.
[45:51.680 --> 46:07.420]  And we tell them that the reason that they get so little money from Spotify is that their audience listens to music the wrong way and not that the billions that streaming services hand over their labels is just intercepted and pocketed by those labels and none of the money is passed on to them.
[46:07.640 --> 46:16.980]  And we end up pointing artists at the people who love their work and not at the people who sit between them and the people who love their work who take the lion's share of the money.
[46:17.200 --> 46:20.280]  And it's easy to see how that won't solve anyone's problem.
[46:21.060 --> 46:23.880]  Well, our problem right now is we can't stop listening to this.
[46:23.980 --> 46:24.720]  It's so fascinating.
[46:24.840 --> 46:27.340]  Corey Doctorow speaking at the 11th HELP Conference.
[46:27.740 --> 46:37.780]  And just the amount of topics that he went through in that mere 10-minute clip there is indicative of what the entire 90-minute talk was all about.
[46:37.800 --> 46:40.200]  And that's just one of 100 talks that you'll receive.
[46:40.200 --> 46:54.320]  If you call 516-620-3602, $75 for a flash drive, $125 for a DVD, 100 DVDs, ask for the 11th HELP flash drive or the 11th HELP DVD collection.
[46:54.760 --> 47:03.000]  And you will be spending a lot of time watching and listening to the amazing talks that we had at this conference.
[47:03.180 --> 47:04.240]  That was certainly fascinating.
[47:04.240 --> 47:20.460]  And I'm going to do a little quick math because if you were interested in that talk, the excerpt that we just played for you, if you would pay $0.75 for a copy of that talk, and if you would pay $0.75 for a copy each of 99 other talks that were presented alongside it on a whole array of other eclectic topics,
[47:20.960 --> 47:22.280]  then you've got our flash drive.
[47:22.520 --> 47:30.420]  You've got the flash drive of 100 talks for $75 on give2wbai.org or 516-620-3602.
[47:30.640 --> 47:38.780]  And using math as well, if you call up and pledge something, let's say you pledge $75 for the flash drive.
[47:38.780 --> 47:41.060]  Then somebody else calls and pledge $75.
[47:41.300 --> 47:41.860]  That's $150.
[47:42.500 --> 47:45.080]  And that's, you know, all of a sudden we're in the triple digits.
[47:46.040 --> 47:48.880]  If four more people do that, well, then it starts getting complicated.
[47:49.040 --> 47:51.060]  But the thing is, the numbers get higher and higher.
[47:51.280 --> 47:53.580]  That is the formula for WBAI.
[47:53.680 --> 47:54.920]  It's been that way since 1960.
[47:55.680 --> 47:59.700]  It's one person calling after another person after another person and pledging.
[47:59.700 --> 48:08.720]  These amounts, either just any amount they want or for a particular item in exchange, it's how we stay on the air.
[48:08.800 --> 48:24.260]  When you look at other radio stations, the amount of money it costs to keep these stations on the air, paying salaries and expense accounts and all kinds of craziness that commercial stations have, you will see that this is a miracle that WBAI exists in the first place.
[48:24.260 --> 48:36.680]  And you can be part of that miracle by calling 516-620-3602, pledging whatever you can afford, or pledging $75 for the flash drive, $125 for the 100-DVD set of the 11th Hope Conference.
[48:36.800 --> 48:39.600]  We want to thank the people who have been calling in, but there aren't nearly enough calls.
[48:39.700 --> 48:40.960]  We need more people to call in.
[48:42.120 --> 48:44.120]  516-620-3602.
[48:44.240 --> 48:45.520]  This is how we stay on the air.
[48:45.520 --> 49:00.520]  This is how Off the Hook has come to you since 1988, talking about issues in the hacker community and basically making things like the Hope Conference possible because you have to get the word out to people in order to have people show up, and WBAI has played a huge part in that.
[49:01.060 --> 49:02.700]  Think of all the magic that's ahead of us.
[49:02.800 --> 49:04.380]  Think of all the things that have not yet happened.
[49:04.840 --> 49:09.340]  And radio will play a key part in that because we are a radio station.
[49:09.340 --> 49:12.880]  We broadcast off the Empire State Building and we hit four states.
[49:12.880 --> 49:18.480]  And, yes, we're a podcast as well, but there is magic in radio that is not going anywhere.
[49:19.680 --> 49:23.920]  And let's invest in those future generations so they can benefit from the magic.
[49:24.180 --> 49:27.640]  516-620-3602.
[49:28.660 --> 49:33.460]  And these talks from the 11th Hope Conference, there are just so many fascinating, interesting talks.
[49:33.460 --> 49:36.680]  We can't possibly do them justice here in the time that we have.
[49:36.720 --> 49:38.440]  But we want to thank the people who have been calling in.
[49:38.660 --> 49:39.560]  Please join them.
[49:39.560 --> 49:44.380]  We're only on for another few minutes, 516-620-3602.
[49:44.520 --> 49:44.820]  Voltaire?
[49:45.060 --> 49:49.700]  I think it's important to mention that these talks are not just for...
[49:49.700 --> 49:52.280]  You don't have to be super technically minded to watch them.
[49:53.480 --> 49:58.940]  We do have technical talks, but a lot of them are understandable by the layout.
[49:59.300 --> 50:03.640]  My parents actually come to the conferences and they're not technical at all.
[50:03.800 --> 50:04.960]  Your parents come to the conferences.
[50:05.140 --> 50:07.260]  A lot of people's parents do come to the conferences.
[50:07.540 --> 50:09.040]  People's grandparents come to the conferences.
[50:09.040 --> 50:10.840]  In fact, people's kids come to the conferences, too.
[50:11.480 --> 50:12.660]  There's something for everybody.
[50:12.660 --> 50:13.480]  You're right about that.
[50:13.680 --> 50:21.300]  I actually had my folks listen to the Cory Doctorow talk for the similar reason that it's approachable.
[50:21.300 --> 50:28.060]  And we encourage people who do not have technical skill to dive in.
[50:28.060 --> 50:30.560]  Just sit down with one of these talks.
[50:31.320 --> 50:34.720]  Pick the one that you don't know the least about.
[50:34.800 --> 50:36.680]  The one that you know the least about.
[50:36.900 --> 50:38.800]  The one that you're not an expert on.
[50:39.140 --> 50:40.440]  That's the one you listen to.
[50:40.620 --> 50:42.420]  Because you might know more than you think.
[50:42.560 --> 50:48.360]  It might turn you on to something that you may be skilled at and can innovate in.
[50:48.360 --> 50:56.160]  Or maybe it just makes you aware of something that other people are doing and care about.
[50:57.560 --> 50:59.740]  Regardless, this is your opportunity.
[51:00.180 --> 51:08.100]  If you prefer not to use the phone, give to WBAI is our URL for this fundraising campaign.
[51:08.100 --> 51:11.080]  You can also navigate there through WBAI.org.
[51:11.160 --> 51:12.620]  Give to WBAI.org, yes.
[51:12.620 --> 51:18.080]  Yes, give to WBAI.org or WBAI.org will help you navigate there, I am sure.
[51:19.420 --> 51:23.580]  Also, 516-620-3602 in these last couple of minutes.
[51:23.800 --> 51:29.140]  Yes, and I think you hit the nail on the head as far as just basically picking a topic that you don't know anything about.
[51:29.280 --> 51:31.860]  Because that is really what the hacker world is.
[51:32.300 --> 51:34.380]  It's learning about things that you know nothing about.
[51:34.660 --> 51:41.480]  It's randomly finding little bits of information on things that you didn't even think were interesting.
[51:41.480 --> 51:45.160]  And realizing that, wow, this is a microcosm of the world.
[51:45.300 --> 51:46.980]  This is something that I can benefit from.
[51:47.100 --> 51:49.740]  Or at least just take some information out of.
[51:50.080 --> 51:53.180]  And if you do listen to that talk, you'll know more about the person...
[51:53.180 --> 51:55.480]  You'll know more about the talk than the person sitting next to you for sure.
[51:55.820 --> 51:58.240]  And you'll be able to share information like that.
[51:58.360 --> 52:02.820]  Think of hearing Cory Doctorow perhaps for the first time tonight on the radio.
[52:03.220 --> 52:05.140]  And saying, wow, that's an interesting person.
[52:05.180 --> 52:06.340]  He made some interesting points.
[52:06.400 --> 52:07.960]  Those points are going to stay with you.
[52:08.160 --> 52:11.120]  And you guaranteed will share those points with somebody else.
[52:11.120 --> 52:16.360]  And that is how the magic of Hope, of Hackers, of WBAI, that's how it all works.
[52:16.620 --> 52:21.320]  And you can keep all of that alive by calling 516-620-3602.
[52:21.440 --> 52:23.820]  Pledging $75 for the flash drive.
[52:23.940 --> 52:29.380]  A 128-gig flash drive filled with HD files, MP4 format.
[52:30.020 --> 52:30.980]  Completely copyable.
[52:31.180 --> 52:32.100]  You can share them.
[52:32.180 --> 52:33.120]  You can post them.
[52:33.200 --> 52:34.420]  You can do whatever you wish.
[52:35.200 --> 52:39.420]  And if you want the DVD set, $125, you'll get 100 DVDs.
[52:40.480 --> 52:42.260]  Again, no copy protection on that.
[52:42.320 --> 52:44.580]  It's all yours to do whatever you wish with.
[52:45.160 --> 52:46.460]  But you have to call now.
[52:46.560 --> 52:48.460]  516-620-3602.
[52:48.620 --> 52:49.760]  We're off the air in five minutes.
[52:50.540 --> 52:51.540]  516-620-3602.
[52:52.320 --> 52:52.500]  Go ahead, Todd.
[52:52.500 --> 52:57.520]  This is really the fastest way to get your hands on this information and to share it with other people.
[52:57.640 --> 52:59.860]  So please take advantage of this offer.
[53:00.120 --> 53:03.420]  We're doing this because we want to continue here at the station.
[53:03.540 --> 53:08.600]  And we offer these as a thank you for your pledge to this community radio station.
[53:09.300 --> 53:09.780]  Absolutely.
[53:09.940 --> 53:10.920]  Bernie, any thoughts from you?
[53:10.920 --> 53:18.940]  Yeah, I just want to thank you, Emmanuel, and Kyle, and the folks involved with 2600 for donating these amazing premiums.
[53:19.140 --> 53:24.320]  None of us get paid for anything, but this is actually costing people a lot of money to donate all this stuff.
[53:24.760 --> 53:32.900]  And getting back to the math that Rob so eloquently detailed, the content is really amazing.
[53:32.900 --> 53:40.840]  But the media that you're getting, for instance, this 128-gigabyte flash drive, I can copy that to your computer's hard drive if you want.
[53:41.220 --> 53:48.900]  That flash drive is... you can go to retail stores and spend almost $75 just for this 128-gigabyte flash drive.
[53:48.900 --> 53:49.860]  For a blank flash drive.
[53:49.920 --> 53:50.260]  That's true.
[53:50.380 --> 53:50.920]  That's a good point.
[53:51.280 --> 53:52.980]  So this is a great deal.
[53:53.180 --> 53:57.880]  The DVD set for $125 for 100 DVDs.
[53:57.880 --> 54:04.480]  Where are you going to find great content on DVDs for $1.25 a DVD and get 100 of them?
[54:04.680 --> 54:15.000]  And this is really hundreds of hours of really very interesting and educational information you're not going to find anywhere else.
[54:15.000 --> 54:22.600]  But the biggest premium in all this, the best value, is you're going to be supporting WBAI, a radio station that brings this kind of content to you.
[54:22.600 --> 54:29.340]  We have interesting conversations every week we're on, and listeners are welcome to call in on weeks we're not fundraising.
[54:29.680 --> 54:36.880]  And the more support we get for the station in financial support, the less fundraisers we're going to have to do.
[54:37.020 --> 54:40.760]  So I encourage everybody listening, please, support this station.
[54:40.760 --> 54:51.080]  And get a great value in not just media, but content, by calling 516-620-3602, or going on to W...
[54:52.480 --> 54:53.640]  I forget the website.
[54:53.780 --> 54:54.140]  What is it?
[54:54.440 --> 54:56.120]  Give to WBAI.org.
[54:56.460 --> 54:56.840]  Yes.
[54:56.980 --> 54:57.220]  Thank you.
[54:57.440 --> 55:00.520]  And thank you, Bernie, for everything that you do as well.
[55:00.520 --> 55:05.700]  And, yeah, just, you know, to let people know we all donate in whatever ways we can.
[55:06.120 --> 55:11.060]  And we've given these DVDs and these flash drives to the station.
[55:11.680 --> 55:22.880]  You can give your support to the station and receive those items as our thanks for supporting the station and supporting Off the Hook, supporting the hacker expression that we highlight every week at this time.
[55:23.160 --> 55:25.800]  Again, 516-620-3602.
[55:25.920 --> 55:26.360]  We're out of time.
[55:26.360 --> 55:31.260]  We have to go, but please call up quickly so you can get the copies that are there.
[55:31.480 --> 55:33.840]  516-620-3602.
[55:34.080 --> 55:38.060]  The 11th Hope flash drive or the 11th Hope DVD drive.
[55:38.180 --> 55:40.560]  Some people have ordered both of them, which is a great idea.
[55:40.680 --> 55:41.760]  They make amazing gifts.
[55:42.300 --> 55:44.380]  It will open up eyes for sure.
[55:45.200 --> 55:47.740]  516-620-3602.
[55:48.000 --> 55:52.020]  And until next time we're on the air, this is Manuel for Off the Hook.
[55:52.680 --> 55:53.540]  Have a good night.
[56:10.200 --> 56:12.240]  Five-H漂亮.
[56:12.240 --> 56:14.360]  Five-Value And by the way this die is on.
[56:14.360 --> 56:28.900]  I'm Two-Hum It is One-Hum I'm I'm Three-Hum I sunt Set
[56:33.480 --> 56:36.660]  I'müp So And then I'm B You Let's U
[56:58.610 --> 57:03.310]  We'll be right back.
[57:45.570 --> 57:49.110]  This is the second one.
[58:09.550 --> 58:14.030]  This is the second one.
[58:30.170 --> 58:34.870]  This is the second one.
[01:00:05.440 --> 01:00:07.800]  And this is the second one.