[00:00.090 --> 00:07.870]  We're actually doing the two things that I think are the most central aims of good journalism, which is to give voice to the voiceless and hold those in power accountable.
[00:10.970 --> 00:13.050]  WBAI, your community alternative.
[00:21.480 --> 00:29.640]  Hi, this is Donovan, and you're tuned to WBAI, listener-supported, non-commercial radio in New York.
[00:31.670 --> 00:36.220]  And there's nothing more we can say other than, yes, that's exactly what we are, WBAI New York.
[00:36.220 --> 00:37.660]  It's 8 o'clock, time for Off the Hook.
[00:42.910 --> 00:47.290]  The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[00:48.350 --> 00:52.750]  I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
[00:53.510 --> 00:55.410]  We couldn't get much work,
[00:59.180 --> 01:01.060]  but the best is paid for worst.
[01:01.740 --> 01:04.560]  I hope that's understood, but didn't it go?
[02:30.070 --> 02:32.610]  And the very good evening to write the program is Off the Hook.
[02:32.650 --> 02:35.270]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you, joined tonight by Rob T.
[02:35.350 --> 02:35.750]  Firefly.
[02:35.950 --> 02:36.510]  Good evening.
[02:36.850 --> 02:37.270]  Alex.
[02:37.610 --> 02:38.090]  Evening.
[02:38.250 --> 02:38.650]  And Kyle.
[02:39.010 --> 02:39.730]  Hi, I'm here.
[02:40.130 --> 02:55.390]  Well, what an exciting, interesting week this has been, as always, with all kinds of fun and exciting things happening in the world of cyberspace and mass media hysteria and, of course, the lunatic we have running this country.
[02:56.850 --> 02:58.030]  Gosh, where should we start?
[02:58.370 --> 03:02.770]  Well, you know, first of all, we had an announcement this week, a very important, dramatic announcement.
[03:03.550 --> 03:06.110]  Yes, the Next Hope Conference.
[03:06.110 --> 03:08.650]  We have an exact date.
[03:08.830 --> 03:09.890]  We have an exact name.
[03:10.270 --> 03:11.690]  The Circle of Hope.
[03:12.630 --> 03:13.890]  Yes, the Circle of Hope.
[03:14.050 --> 03:15.590]  July 20th through 22nd.
[03:15.850 --> 03:17.730]  Not this year, but next year.
[03:17.850 --> 03:19.150]  July 20th through 22nd.
[03:19.150 --> 03:23.330]  And I don't think we've ever announced it this early before, at the Hotel Pennsylvania, New York City.
[03:24.970 --> 03:32.410]  And the reason we're announcing it so early is because so many people are asking and demanding to know when it is so that they can plan their lives that far in advance.
[03:33.110 --> 03:33.910]  It's optimists.
[03:34.030 --> 03:38.110]  They assume that we're still all going to be around in a year.
[03:38.270 --> 03:40.130]  We're going to survive everything that's ahead of us.
[03:40.530 --> 03:41.550]  But maybe we will.
[03:41.630 --> 03:45.190]  And if we do, then the Circle of Hope takes place July 20th through 22nd.
[03:45.630 --> 03:49.230]  The hotel's going to be around and our event will be there.
[03:49.450 --> 03:54.230]  That's the Hotel Pennsylvania in midtown Manhattan in New York City.
[03:54.370 --> 03:55.510]  And 10 years ago, we couldn't say that.
[03:55.670 --> 03:58.150]  We didn't know the hotel would still be around.
[03:58.350 --> 04:07.330]  And it is, thanks in no small part to the efforts of Hope attendees and their campaigns and just convincing people that, hey, it's a good idea to have this place in midtown Manhattan.
[04:07.530 --> 04:15.190]  It's a very important part of what makes Hope so special, our venue and the good people there and the good time that our people have there.
[04:15.710 --> 04:17.330]  It makes it really, really important.
[04:17.970 --> 04:25.050]  Did you, by any chance, consult the Farmer's Almanac to figure out when the most hot, humid weekend was going to be in 2018?
[04:25.410 --> 04:29.910]  Alex, it doesn't matter when the most hot, humid weekend of the season would be because everybody's inside.
[04:29.910 --> 04:29.990]  Humid.
[04:30.390 --> 04:34.130]  And as long as we remember to turn the air conditioners on, everybody will be okay.
[04:34.430 --> 04:37.770]  And, you know, the more time they spend indoors at Hope, the better for them.
[04:38.030 --> 04:40.270]  Of course, New York City is great to wander around in as well.
[04:40.310 --> 04:45.190]  But if it's hot, humid, or massive thunderstorms are in the area, you have a safe place to be.
[04:45.630 --> 04:47.890]  Except the elevators going up to the 18th floor.
[04:47.970 --> 04:48.390]  Oh, I know.
[04:49.030 --> 04:51.430]  They get a little humid and sticky by Sunday.
[04:51.650 --> 04:52.130]  Well, they can.
[04:52.430 --> 04:52.870]  They can.
[04:53.090 --> 04:53.250]  You have to admit.
[04:53.250 --> 04:54.950]  But you have some good conversations in those elevators.
[04:54.950 --> 04:56.870]  How many air-conditioned elevator shafts are there?
[04:56.930 --> 04:57.530]  I mean, come on.
[04:57.590 --> 04:58.830]  You're asking a lot here, Alex.
[04:58.830 --> 04:59.750]  You should know.
[04:59.930 --> 05:00.890]  You're the one who should know that.
[05:01.030 --> 05:01.190]  All right.
[05:01.190 --> 05:03.610]  I have no idea about those.
[05:03.970 --> 05:08.050]  In any event, there's staircases as well, if the elevators don't.
[05:08.110 --> 05:13.230]  But the point is, we have a date, we have a name, and now we can all plan ahead.
[05:13.470 --> 05:20.190]  We'll be opening up all sorts of email addresses for people to submit submissions, which is what you do when you submit things.
[05:21.070 --> 05:22.790]  And all kinds of other ideas.
[05:23.110 --> 05:24.570]  For now, think of circles.
[05:25.190 --> 05:27.710]  Think of hope, and we'll take it from there.
[05:27.710 --> 05:30.030]  And other details, of course, will follow.
[05:30.170 --> 05:31.510]  So we'll have lots to say about that.
[05:31.650 --> 05:35.310]  And if you'd like to take a look at this announcement for yourself, it's on hope.net.
[05:35.650 --> 05:36.150]  That's right.
[05:36.330 --> 05:37.470]  Just chilling out in the center of the page.
[05:37.570 --> 05:40.990]  And that's really actually all it says is the Circle of Hope.
[05:41.130 --> 05:42.410]  But eventually it will say other things.
[05:42.650 --> 05:49.190]  Well, you know, I don't want to make any promises, but possibly we'll have more on the website than just the name of the conference.
[05:49.990 --> 05:50.830]  We'll have to see.
[05:51.050 --> 05:53.270]  So there were some clues to the name.
[05:53.430 --> 05:55.090]  Do you want to possibly explain them?
[05:55.090 --> 05:57.210]  I saw, coincidentally, an animated GIF.
[05:57.350 --> 05:58.710]  Well, we had some circles spinning.
[05:58.930 --> 05:59.950]  We had a spinning circle.
[06:00.150 --> 06:05.450]  And a lot of people thought their computer was malfunctioning or that we had given them malware or something like that.
[06:05.470 --> 06:10.170]  Because, you know, when you went to hope.net, you just had that spinning circle that you get on many computers.
[06:11.030 --> 06:13.850]  And, you know, we told people, yeah, just keep hitting reload.
[06:13.850 --> 06:16.110]  I'm sure it'll work at some point.
[06:16.450 --> 06:17.250]  And it did.
[06:17.250 --> 06:21.650]  It just took a few days and people got what they were looking for.
[06:22.590 --> 06:23.950]  So anyway, that's done.
[06:24.150 --> 06:27.030]  That's, well, that's the first part of it is done.
[06:27.150 --> 06:28.730]  We have much, much more to do.
[06:28.910 --> 06:29.430]  It's begun.
[06:29.670 --> 06:29.810]  Yes.
[06:29.950 --> 06:36.050]  But enjoy this summer, this summer without hope, because there's all kinds of other things to do as well.
[06:36.230 --> 06:36.370]  Yeah.
[06:36.410 --> 06:40.870]  You can find out about that in the Hacker Happening section of our latest issue, which is coming out.
[06:40.930 --> 06:42.350]  Which, by the way, it's coming out this week.
[06:42.390 --> 06:42.810]  That's right.
[06:42.930 --> 06:45.270]  You might have an issue in your hands right now.
[06:45.270 --> 06:48.450]  If you have Kindle, you definitely have an issue in your hands.
[06:48.650 --> 06:55.670]  And every quarter we publish all kinds of different events that are going on around the globe, of which hope is one.
[06:55.870 --> 06:57.090]  So check that out for sure.
[06:57.150 --> 06:58.730]  It's on the Nook, Google Play.
[06:59.670 --> 07:01.110]  You just name it.
[07:01.170 --> 07:03.670]  It's in a digital platform of one sort or another.
[07:03.670 --> 07:05.070]  Is this our most controversial issue yet?
[07:05.250 --> 07:05.950]  I don't know.
[07:06.030 --> 07:07.770]  It's one of our most controversial covers ever.
[07:07.770 --> 07:08.790]  We're really working on it.
[07:08.810 --> 07:08.990]  Yeah.
[07:09.070 --> 07:11.410]  We're really trying to get a good ranking there.
[07:11.450 --> 07:12.830]  We don't try to be controversial.
[07:13.110 --> 07:14.390]  The controversy follows us.
[07:14.390 --> 07:15.270]  It just happens.
[07:15.270 --> 07:18.030]  No matter what we do, we wind up in the middle of it all.
[07:19.530 --> 07:22.270]  And I think you'll find this issue is no exception.
[07:22.390 --> 07:40.090]  I have to say, the articles in this issue blew me away because so many people have been motivated and are impassioned to speak out and be active and to defy, to resist, to do all the things that are necessary in a democracy to fix it when it's broken.
[07:40.570 --> 07:42.430]  And folks, it's broken right now.
[07:42.430 --> 07:44.010]  It is so broken.
[07:44.510 --> 07:45.890]  I don't even know where to begin.
[07:46.930 --> 07:57.130]  Shall we examine some of what happened in the news with the violent threats against journalists that our president put forth?
[07:57.330 --> 07:57.770]  No.
[07:57.870 --> 08:03.210]  Let's talk about a random exploit that no one knows about or will care about in a year's time or more.
[08:03.210 --> 08:09.770]  You know, it's obscure and extremely technical and satisfies those who wish us to not be social or political.
[08:09.970 --> 08:15.950]  You laugh, but there are people pounding the air with their fists saying, yes, do that.
[08:16.110 --> 08:20.330]  That random exploit that no one cares about or knows about or will know or remember.
[08:20.330 --> 08:21.350]  No, people do care.
[08:21.450 --> 08:21.950]  Some people care.
[08:22.050 --> 08:25.770]  But the thing is, you won't care tomorrow or next week or certainly next year.
[08:27.290 --> 08:30.230]  And you can also get that news in so many other places as well.
[08:30.330 --> 08:32.170]  We will, you know, we devote attention to these things.
[08:32.250 --> 08:33.670]  Okay, let's start with the former then.
[08:33.810 --> 08:38.410]  But you have to understand, we're a radio station and people constantly tuned to us by accident.
[08:38.690 --> 08:40.430]  Some on purpose, but many by accident.
[08:40.430 --> 08:45.130]  And when they hit us, we want them to stick around and be intrigued by the conversation.
[08:45.510 --> 08:48.730]  And we want them to be outraged and impassioned and all that.
[08:48.790 --> 08:50.070]  And exploits can do that.
[08:50.330 --> 08:51.410]  Absolutely, they can do that.
[08:52.230 --> 08:53.530]  But so can other things.
[08:53.550 --> 08:55.510]  And we want to make it as diverse as possible.
[08:55.590 --> 08:56.630]  So, you know, we try to mix it up.
[08:56.850 --> 08:57.250]  So, okay.
[08:57.430 --> 08:59.030]  So, hatred and violence.
[08:59.230 --> 08:59.570]  Yes.
[09:01.170 --> 09:03.270]  So, that video came out.
[09:03.370 --> 09:06.310]  Now, this is going to lead to a whole bunch of discussion here.
[09:06.550 --> 09:07.690]  That video came out.
[09:07.810 --> 09:08.610]  We all saw it.
[09:08.690 --> 09:09.710]  We did all see it, right?
[09:09.710 --> 09:10.370]  Yes.
[09:10.570 --> 09:12.110]  That was part of the assignment for today.
[09:12.410 --> 09:12.770]  Yes.
[09:12.930 --> 09:14.670]  This was the President of the United States.
[09:15.190 --> 09:19.090]  He released a viral-ish video.
[09:19.150 --> 09:27.890]  This is like a video that's been modified to express a certain theme or poke fun.
[09:28.210 --> 09:28.330]  Yes.
[09:28.470 --> 09:29.170]  It's supposed to be fun.
[09:29.330 --> 09:36.450]  It was basically the video of Trump pummeling somebody outside a fake wrestling ring.
[09:36.650 --> 09:39.270]  And that person, instead of their head, had a CNN logo.
[09:39.710 --> 09:43.810]  And it turns out Trump didn't actually make that video.
[09:43.810 --> 09:45.090]  It was taken off of Reddit.
[09:45.430 --> 09:47.070]  Somebody posted it on Reddit.
[09:47.270 --> 09:49.610]  And apparently, Trump people frequent Reddit.
[09:50.050 --> 09:50.750]  Who knew?
[09:51.210 --> 09:52.490]  Certain corners of Reddit.
[09:52.550 --> 09:54.230]  You'd think they were doing presidential things.
[09:54.310 --> 09:57.930]  But apparently, he's got a whole staff of people just on the internet searching for any mention of Trump.
[09:57.930 --> 10:01.610]  So, okay, they found that, got it to him somehow.
[10:01.610 --> 10:02.870]  He posted it on his Twitter.
[10:03.050 --> 10:03.810]  And it took off.
[10:03.890 --> 10:04.910]  And everybody was talking about it.
[10:05.310 --> 10:18.450]  And we cannot understate the significance of the President of the United States posting a video like that, where he's basically beating the crap out of what purports to be a journalist.
[10:19.070 --> 10:21.630]  Somebody with a CNN microphone as their head.
[10:21.930 --> 10:24.050]  You know, the symbolism is pretty clear.
[10:24.350 --> 10:26.730]  He feels victimized by the media.
[10:26.870 --> 10:28.250]  He feels the media is the enemy.
[10:28.850 --> 10:33.610]  And not the first time he's advocated violence, whether it's supposed to be humorous or not.
[10:33.770 --> 10:36.130]  The thing is, a lot of people take it seriously.
[10:36.450 --> 10:39.810]  A lot of people act upon these particular suggestions.
[10:39.830 --> 10:41.310]  We've seen it in the past.
[10:41.310 --> 10:42.890]  We've seen it at his rallies.
[10:43.610 --> 10:49.570]  And we can see it simply in the attitude of many of his followers towards the media, towards journalism.
[10:50.470 --> 10:56.410]  And as a media outlet ourselves here at WBAI, it's frightening.
[10:56.610 --> 10:57.250]  It's scary.
[10:57.390 --> 11:01.430]  Because, you know, imagine his ire at a mainstream media outlet like CNN.
[11:01.670 --> 11:05.410]  Think about how he would feel about a place like WBAI.
[11:05.410 --> 11:08.370]  If he even knew about WBAI, I'm sure it's not even on his radar.
[11:08.370 --> 11:11.310]  And you might say, OK, that means we're not a threat.
[11:11.490 --> 11:15.150]  But the fact of the matter is, we have journalists here, many journalists.
[11:15.590 --> 11:24.550]  And we have the kind that dig and dig deep and really don't give up until they find something to report on.
[11:24.850 --> 11:28.850]  Keep in mind, this radio station produced people like Amy Goodman.
[11:29.470 --> 11:30.350]  You know, Democracy Now!
[11:30.890 --> 11:34.890]  That's the kind of magic that comes out of WBAI and all the Pacifica stations.
[11:35.950 --> 11:47.850]  So, we may not be on his radar right now, but when we start reporting things and releasing information, you'd best believe we will be on his radar and he will act against us in one way or another.
[11:47.930 --> 11:53.870]  Whether it is to convince the Empire State Building to throw us off, the transmitter, not us personally.
[11:53.870 --> 11:58.030]  Although, I'm sure that would be on the list of things he would want to do as well.
[11:58.030 --> 12:04.950]  Well, it's basically a bad time, a dark time for journalism in this country.
[12:05.110 --> 12:06.790]  And that's why we all have to take that seriously.
[12:06.950 --> 12:15.630]  No matter what you think about CNN or mainstream media in general, this is something that we all have to focus on and report on and talk about.
[12:16.370 --> 12:17.670]  Do you remember...
[12:17.670 --> 12:19.930]  You brought up a pretty interesting point here.
[12:20.130 --> 12:24.870]  Do you remember when President Clinton actually called up Democracy Now!
[12:24.870 --> 12:26.830]  when he was doing some fundraising and some stumping?
[12:27.070 --> 12:28.230]  Wait, did you say that again?
[12:28.870 --> 12:30.250]  President Clinton called democracy.
[12:30.270 --> 12:30.790]  Hold on, hold on, hold on.
[12:31.670 --> 12:32.330]  One more time.
[12:32.750 --> 12:33.110]  President...
[12:33.110 --> 12:34.190]  President Clinton.
[12:34.490 --> 12:34.710]  Oh.
[12:35.130 --> 12:35.990]  Oh, I don't know.
[12:35.990 --> 12:36.510]  You like that?
[12:36.590 --> 12:37.190]  I just...
[12:37.190 --> 12:38.850]  Yeah, you know, it's just hearing that.
[12:39.010 --> 12:41.870]  Because when you said that the last time, I closed my eyes, I just imagined...
[12:42.850 --> 12:46.390]  Not necessarily Hillary, but you know, I would take Chelsea at this point.
[12:46.510 --> 12:47.050]  It doesn't matter.
[12:47.310 --> 12:48.130]  President anything.
[12:48.510 --> 12:48.950]  That's true.
[12:49.050 --> 12:49.270]  Really?
[12:49.510 --> 12:50.330]  I know it's very sad.
[12:50.490 --> 12:51.210]  It's very sad.
[12:51.210 --> 12:51.410]  I don't know.
[12:51.530 --> 12:52.530]  It'll get to my next point.
[12:52.850 --> 12:55.710]  But President Clinton called up Democracy Now!
[12:55.750 --> 12:56.430]  I know you like that.
[12:56.490 --> 12:56.870]  I'll say it again.
[12:56.970 --> 12:57.490]  President Clinton...
[12:57.490 --> 12:57.570]  Oh, yeah.
[12:57.610 --> 12:58.090]  Not for ready.
[12:58.750 --> 13:00.090]  ...called up Democracy Now!
[13:00.890 --> 13:03.990]  And he didn't know what hit him when Amy Goodman got on the line.
[13:04.210 --> 13:04.710]  I know, I know.
[13:04.810 --> 13:08.810]  And he started asking about mandatory minimums and moratorium on the federal...
[13:08.810 --> 13:11.850]  And to his credit, he stayed on the phone and he fought back.
[13:12.010 --> 13:12.130]  Yep.
[13:12.410 --> 13:16.950]  I mean, you know, what he was saying was crap, but he did fight back and he stood up for himself.
[13:16.950 --> 13:19.930]  And if he had done that throughout his presidency, I think he would have been a better president.
[13:19.930 --> 13:20.910]  Yeah, I agree.
[13:21.070 --> 13:22.730]  But now, onto the subject of our president.
[13:23.010 --> 13:24.530]  This particular animated...
[13:24.530 --> 13:25.010]  Who's president?
[13:25.690 --> 13:26.650]  Sorry about that.
[13:26.890 --> 13:27.330]  The...
[13:28.290 --> 13:29.570]  Well, the president.
[13:29.810 --> 13:30.810]  Yeah, be careful, Alex.
[13:31.050 --> 13:31.250]  You're...
[13:31.250 --> 13:32.830]  I don't want to use any possessions like that.
[13:32.830 --> 13:33.610]  You're treading into some dangerous...
[13:33.610 --> 13:35.290]  Alex, you're in mixed company.
[13:35.390 --> 13:36.170]  I know.
[13:36.250 --> 13:37.290]  I'm not making any friends here.
[13:37.550 --> 13:38.050]  Yeah, that's true.
[13:38.130 --> 13:39.110]  He's not our president.
[13:39.370 --> 13:39.870]  Watch your tongue.
[13:39.990 --> 13:40.470]  That's true.
[13:40.470 --> 13:58.090]  In any event, this president, what's so sad to me about this entire thing is that it almost seemed like once he saw that animated gif where he was the hero, he was the guy performing the clothesline, this violent attack on the media, knocking them down,
[13:58.330 --> 13:59.970]  that it was almost inevitable.
[13:59.970 --> 14:03.610]  It was almost impossible for him not to retweet something like that.
[14:03.610 --> 14:11.470]  It was very self-aggrandizing, very pompous, I'm the bully, I'm the tough guy, here I am, I'm going to take down the media with a clothesline.
[14:11.510 --> 14:12.690]  It's a throwback, too.
[14:13.010 --> 14:14.230]  That's his earlier stuff.
[14:14.410 --> 14:14.470]  Definitely.
[14:14.610 --> 14:16.110]  That's like retro Trump.
[14:16.250 --> 14:16.690]  It totally is.
[14:16.690 --> 14:17.530]  He actually did that.
[14:17.530 --> 14:18.010]  It's a remix.
[14:18.130 --> 14:19.670]  It's like a remix of his old stuff.
[14:19.710 --> 14:22.130]  Yeah, it wasn't somebody with a CNN logo for a head.
[14:22.130 --> 14:23.090]  It was somebody.
[14:23.090 --> 14:24.110]  It was a fake wrestling thing.
[14:24.170 --> 14:24.970]  But he actually did that.
[14:25.050 --> 14:25.530]  It was a bit.
[14:25.630 --> 14:26.230]  That's his world.
[14:26.290 --> 14:26.850]  Yeah, it was a bit.
[14:26.950 --> 14:29.230]  It was like the original, and then it got remixed.
[14:29.470 --> 14:32.130]  And how's he not going to be like, yeah, retweet that?
[14:32.130 --> 14:35.490]  And the ironic thing is, that whole scene was fake.
[14:35.970 --> 14:36.470]  That's fake.
[14:36.590 --> 14:37.010]  Of course.
[14:37.270 --> 14:38.470]  That wrestling nonsense is fake.
[14:38.750 --> 14:41.490]  And Niri is going on about fake news all the time.
[14:41.610 --> 14:41.950]  It's terrible.
[14:42.710 --> 14:47.190]  Yeah, and what's wonderful is, this is him posting an animated GIF.
[14:47.310 --> 14:47.710]  Not Jif.
[14:47.830 --> 14:48.690]  An animated GIF.
[14:48.810 --> 14:50.030]  All right, let's not get into that.
[14:50.190 --> 14:50.550]  All right.
[14:50.890 --> 14:51.710]  An animated GIF of himself.
[14:51.710 --> 14:52.550]  Spaces or tabs?
[14:52.950 --> 14:54.510]  Nah, we need to settle this.
[14:54.670 --> 14:56.370]  Well, we'll get onto that.
[14:56.470 --> 14:57.250]  Yeah, we'll talk afterwards.
[14:57.250 --> 15:01.890]  So he's posting this short video of himself pummeling the CNN logo.
[15:02.130 --> 15:06.510]  And, you know, himself, you know, providing the violence in a violent scene.
[15:06.850 --> 15:07.830]  When, what was it?
[15:07.910 --> 15:12.150]  Two months ago that a comedian posted a picture of a fake dummy head of his being severed.
[15:12.210 --> 15:14.350]  And that was the most terrible thing ever.
[15:14.410 --> 15:15.290]  And how dare you do that?
[15:16.310 --> 15:16.710]  Yes.
[15:17.030 --> 15:17.250]  Okay.
[15:17.250 --> 15:17.530]  Yes.
[15:17.850 --> 15:21.070]  So, are we going to get onto the idiot behind this or what?
[15:21.230 --> 15:22.070]  Well, okay.
[15:22.070 --> 15:24.310]  We can't read anything the guy said.
[15:24.390 --> 15:28.950]  But basically, what CNN did was they figured out who the guy was.
[15:28.950 --> 15:33.050]  He goes by the Reddit user Han Asshole Solo.
[15:33.350 --> 15:35.930]  I apologize for saying that name.
[15:35.990 --> 15:36.810]  I won't say it again.
[15:36.810 --> 15:39.530]  But that's his name on Reddit.
[15:39.530 --> 15:40.750]  They tracked him down.
[15:40.850 --> 15:42.090]  They figured out who he was.
[15:42.170 --> 15:44.110]  And they reported on that fact.
[15:44.530 --> 15:48.750]  And this is the thing that really kind of bugs the hell out of me.
[15:48.850 --> 15:50.770]  Because they reported all this information.
[15:50.990 --> 15:51.910]  The guy apologized.
[15:51.910 --> 15:56.570]  The guy was basically sincere in their eyes.
[15:57.310 --> 16:00.690]  Writing a lengthy post that he doesn't advocate violence against the press.
[16:00.810 --> 16:06.190]  Expressing remorse in an interview with CNN for any other posts that were racist and anti-Semitic.
[16:06.190 --> 16:18.910]  And, you know, if you look at the page that existed before it was deleted, there are some really vile things about Islam that are written there, about all kinds of races and minorities and the most horrible things you could possibly think of.
[16:19.010 --> 16:20.870]  But this guy was promoting.
[16:20.870 --> 16:22.650]  This was before the video was released.
[16:22.810 --> 16:23.850]  This is who he was.
[16:23.970 --> 16:25.450]  So, but he changed his tune.
[16:25.550 --> 16:29.810]  So when CNN legal calls, you know, everything isn't made into something else.
[16:29.970 --> 16:34.170]  I think it was CNN reporters who called and basically said, you know, we got you.
[16:34.170 --> 16:36.310]  Dude, this is, you know, what do you have to say for yourself?
[16:36.610 --> 16:42.610]  And he either panicked or had some real remorse come over him.
[16:43.550 --> 16:53.130]  And CNN made a decision, a decision not to release his real name because they believed that he was sincerely apologetic and they didn't want to screw up his life.
[16:54.190 --> 17:00.850]  But then they said something at the end of the story that apparently the alt-right has taken and is running towards the end zone with.
[17:01.050 --> 17:06.870]  They said they reserved the right to reveal his information should circumstances change.
[17:07.070 --> 17:09.210]  To me, that sentence goes without saying.
[17:09.430 --> 17:19.070]  I mean, if you have the guy's identity, if he decides to, you know, blow up something and you have his information, yeah, you might release the information then.
[17:19.070 --> 17:28.890]  If he does something horrible or harasses somebody or does something that people deserve to know about, you have his information, yeah, you should reveal it.
[17:28.990 --> 17:33.690]  I would have revealed his name before because I think he already did the horrendous things.
[17:33.830 --> 17:43.550]  But CNN, by saying this, basically provoked the ire of all these people just waiting to jump on them and make Trump the victim.
[17:44.290 --> 17:45.590]  And we've seen that happen.
[17:45.750 --> 17:49.810]  The thing that bothers me, though, is I'm seeing it happen on the left as well as the right.
[17:50.030 --> 17:55.890]  I'm seeing people say CNN is doing something horrible and preventing this guy from expressing himself.
[17:56.550 --> 17:58.210]  Think about the things he's saying.
[17:58.310 --> 17:59.710]  Yeah, he has the right to express himself.
[17:59.830 --> 18:01.650]  In many countries, he would not have that right.
[18:01.770 --> 18:03.790]  In many places in Europe, you can't say these things.
[18:03.990 --> 18:04.870]  Here you can.
[18:05.190 --> 18:05.510]  Great.
[18:05.750 --> 18:08.430]  But there are consequences for saying this kind of crap.
[18:08.430 --> 18:15.430]  And if you, as an investigative reporter, are able to track somebody like this down, yeah, let us know who he is.
[18:15.770 --> 18:17.090]  Words have consequences.
[18:17.430 --> 18:19.010]  People don't seem to get that.
[18:19.170 --> 18:20.970]  People on our side don't seem to get that.
[18:21.070 --> 18:29.070]  And they'd rather vilify CNN than admit this guy is a real jerk and deserves to pay the price for the things he's done.
[18:29.330 --> 18:35.030]  Yeah, the people always most, you know, willing to hide behind sort of, you know, it's the freedom of speech.
[18:35.150 --> 18:36.170]  You're suppressing his freedom of speech.
[18:36.170 --> 18:39.930]  No, it's, you don't get freedom from the consequences of your speech as well.
[18:40.070 --> 18:49.930]  And if you're posting the stuff that this guy did, not only Trump doing, you know, all sorts of things to CNN, but anti-Muslim stuff, anti-Semitic stuff, all this, you know, truly terrible stuff.
[18:50.470 --> 18:51.090]  Misogynistic stuff.
[18:51.190 --> 18:51.950]  Misogynistic stuff.
[18:52.610 --> 18:59.210]  You know, but this person, you know, left enough of their information out there and left a trail that CNN was able to follow.
[18:59.550 --> 19:04.610]  And the thing is, like, the things we do online that we like to think are anonymous, unless we take extraordinary measures, are not.
[19:04.610 --> 19:09.410]  We can always be traced back, I think, with what amounts to minimal effort these days.
[19:10.050 --> 19:19.850]  And so, like, people who feel comfortable saying these terrible things, these awful things, it seems to really terrify them when they're sort of brought to account for it.
[19:19.950 --> 19:20.450]  Let me just tell you.
[19:20.610 --> 19:31.410]  Rule number one in the hacker community is that if somebody does you wrong or acts in a vile or reprehensible way, you dox them.
[19:31.610 --> 19:37.270]  You drop their dox, their private information, you show them that they can't hide.
[19:37.390 --> 19:41.450]  They're not impervious to their identity being revealed.
[19:41.610 --> 19:45.450]  That is what people have been doing for decades, all right?
[19:45.490 --> 19:46.810]  Nobody is immune from this.
[19:46.890 --> 19:52.250]  So if somebody does something horrible and you find out their information, I think, you know, you have an obligation to share that.
[19:52.250 --> 19:59.450]  CNN decided not to, but instead they're getting crap for saying they will release this information if this guy does more stupid stuff.
[19:59.970 --> 20:13.290]  I think it's interesting that the right, I guess, jumping on this line in the article, basically wanted him to get his due, like the 15 minutes or whatever hype out of it, through them, which they sort of probably denied.
[20:13.290 --> 20:31.510]  I think, I wonder, the question begs, did he request they not, that they not, like kind of begged him not to do as much as they can, and they sort of capitulated or negotiated this to protect him from the backlash he kind of knew he would bring when people actually did the little digging.
[20:31.670 --> 20:32.910]  They showed a heart, I think.
[20:32.970 --> 20:35.750]  They showed some, you know, sympathy for him.
[20:35.910 --> 20:37.410]  But, Kyle, you say the right.
[20:37.510 --> 20:40.850]  The thing is, these critiques are coming from the left as well.
[20:40.930 --> 20:41.330]  Sure, sure.
[20:41.610 --> 20:46.030]  I mean, WikiLeaks is basically pummeling CNN for this, not saying a word about Trump.
[20:46.030 --> 20:58.070]  Even in The Intercept, there's an article saying how evil CNN is for doing this, and not really focusing on why this guy deserves to be exposed, you know, for the scum that he is.
[20:58.210 --> 21:04.730]  I meant alt-right and whatever big hot air balloon that encompasses these days.
[21:04.730 --> 21:06.590]  Sometimes the alt-right and the left merge.
[21:06.590 --> 21:06.970]  Oh, yeah.
[21:07.070 --> 21:08.070]  We have to be very careful of it.
[21:08.270 --> 21:09.110]  Yeah, very inbred.
[21:09.390 --> 21:11.630]  Well, I think the timing of this is very interesting.
[21:11.630 --> 21:17.990]  You brought up, I think, an often sort of confused point with this particular story.
[21:17.990 --> 21:31.490]  And the apology appears to have come from this particular Hans person before actually talking to CNN, but after he was contacted originally by CNN.
[21:31.920 --> 21:37.390]  So the person knew that CNN had essentially unmasked his identity to use in front of ours.
[21:37.390 --> 21:47.530]  Basically, what you're saying is he knew that CNN, in contacting him, was on the way to figuring out who he was because CNN consists of good journalists who can do the job.
[21:47.610 --> 21:49.210]  That's basically what he concluded right there.
[21:49.330 --> 21:49.990]  Yeah, well, that's right.
[21:50.070 --> 21:52.710]  I mean, he knew that the cat was out of the bag at that particular point.
[21:52.830 --> 21:56.470]  But let's talk about this for a second, particularly what CNN wrote.
[21:56.990 --> 21:57.970]  Yeah, legal perspective.
[21:58.170 --> 21:58.310]  Yeah.
[21:58.670 --> 22:06.850]  And to be fair and complete transparency here, as our regular listeners will know, I've written several articles for CNN fairly recently.
[22:06.850 --> 22:08.290]  You also wrote for The Intercept, didn't you?
[22:08.390 --> 22:09.410]  And The Intercept as well.
[22:09.510 --> 22:11.490]  Wow, you're in this up to your neck, Alex.
[22:11.650 --> 22:12.970]  I am, or a little bit higher.
[22:13.170 --> 22:14.350]  Yeah, that's a tightrope.
[22:14.450 --> 22:14.910]  Go ahead, though.
[22:14.990 --> 22:15.370]  It is.
[22:15.470 --> 22:15.670]  All right.
[22:15.710 --> 22:16.410]  Give it a nice walk.
[22:16.570 --> 22:16.830]  So look.
[22:16.830 --> 22:17.850]  Have you been on Reddit, too?
[22:19.070 --> 22:20.670]  I'm not going to say anything about Reddit.
[22:20.730 --> 22:21.950]  He's in the pocket for Reddit.
[22:22.150 --> 22:22.290]  Yeah.
[22:22.630 --> 22:24.210]  You want to shovel to dig yourself out of this?
[22:24.290 --> 22:24.550]  I knew it.
[22:24.550 --> 22:29.910]  I may have an obscene or expletive-laden Star Wars handle on Reddit.
[22:29.910 --> 22:30.470]  I don't know.
[22:31.190 --> 22:33.850]  In any event, so this is what CNN wrote in the article.
[22:33.850 --> 22:49.250]  CNN is not publishing Hans A-Hole Solo's name because he is a private citizen who has issued an extensive statement of apology, showed his remorse by saying he's taken down all his offending posts, and because he said he is not going to repeat this ugly behavior on social media again.
[22:49.430 --> 22:54.910]  In addition, he said his statement could serve as an example to others not to do the same.
[22:55.070 --> 22:55.770]  Full stop.
[22:55.770 --> 23:03.830]  Then the next sentence is, CNN reserves the right to publish his identity should any of that change.
[23:04.030 --> 23:06.270]  Now that, what does that refer to?
[23:06.370 --> 23:08.330]  That refers to posting offending.
[23:08.410 --> 23:10.190]  This is what a reasonable interpretation is.
[23:10.310 --> 23:14.550]  So in my opinion, this was a huge misstep by CNN.
[23:14.770 --> 23:19.250]  They really sort of screwed the pooch here with this reservation of rights language.
[23:19.250 --> 23:20.810]  It's very legalese.
[23:20.810 --> 23:28.850]  It may, as The Intercept has reported, perhaps come from an executive or a lawyer, and it's not necessarily the language a reporter would use.
[23:28.950 --> 23:34.110]  But the weird thing here is, why would you reserve this right should any of that change?
[23:34.430 --> 23:44.430]  Because from a legal standpoint, you would never have a right that was waived by reporting on this now and then deciding to report further on it later.
[23:44.430 --> 23:53.070]  So this reservation of rights appears to be contingent upon this character conforming his behavior to the standards set by CNN.
[23:53.070 --> 23:55.230]  And that's what people are taking and running with.
[23:55.430 --> 24:04.550]  And it's a somewhat reasonable interpretation, I think, given the language that comes right after the decision to not publish the name.
[24:04.710 --> 24:28.750]  Now, I think that they could have said something much clearer and much more less, or rather, much less controversial, they could have said something like, because the original poster of this content had a tremendous amount of remorse, and because we have security concerns about releasing his identity out in abundance of caution,
[24:28.910 --> 24:31.230]  we are withholding his personal details at this time.
[24:31.430 --> 24:33.150]  No need to reserve your rights.
[24:33.150 --> 24:35.370]  No need to condition that reservation of rights.
[24:35.510 --> 24:37.350]  That was a bit of a mistake.
[24:37.550 --> 24:39.910]  That's why I think people are beginning to run with this.
[24:39.910 --> 24:44.450]  That's why people are posting things about CNN blackmail and extortion.
[24:44.450 --> 24:50.170]  But I think you said at this time, I think that would lead people to say, well, then at what time would that change?
[24:50.170 --> 24:52.770]  And who are you to say that you can change at a different time?
[24:52.770 --> 24:53.290]  It could be.
[24:53.530 --> 25:04.070]  Now, on the other hand, suppose that CNN did, in fact, publish this person's name, then they would have been screwed anyhow, because they would have probably been accused of doxing, not accused of threatening to dox somebody.
[25:04.070 --> 25:04.830]  But what's wrong with that?
[25:04.990 --> 25:06.970]  This guy did some horrible things.
[25:06.970 --> 25:08.270]  Why shouldn't he be identified?
[25:08.790 --> 25:09.950]  It's newsworthy, right?
[25:10.110 --> 25:10.790]  It's newsworthy.
[25:10.970 --> 25:14.490]  But I think there's a real larger issue here, too, is because...
[25:14.990 --> 25:16.550]  And I don't know the answer to this.
[25:16.550 --> 25:17.650]  I'm going to just ask the question.
[25:17.790 --> 25:32.990]  But because CNN was involved with this animated GIF, as Rob calls it, should they have been the media outlet to actually break this story, since by the very nature of the story, they were going to be inherently involved with it?
[25:32.990 --> 25:36.970]  Yeah, but come on, are you saying that they shouldn't be journalists then because they're involved in the story?
[25:37.050 --> 25:40.070]  They should withhold any investigative skills they might have?
[25:40.250 --> 25:40.650]  No, not necessarily.
[25:40.650 --> 25:51.330]  But what I'm saying is there is, I think, a constant ploy here or a tactic to drag the media into the stories that they are actually reporting.
[25:51.470 --> 25:55.350]  And when you drag the media into their own stories, you can discredit them.
[25:55.530 --> 25:59.110]  Yeah, but Trump is the one who dragged them into this story by pummeling them in a wrestling ring.
[25:59.110 --> 26:03.810]  And perhaps they fed into it by reporting on it instead of letting another journalistic organization report on it.
[26:03.810 --> 26:10.070]  Yeah, but to say that they shouldn't report on a story that's obviously a story, I mean, that's kind of Orwellian there, isn't it?
[26:10.190 --> 26:12.510]  Perhaps, but they could have given the story to BuzzFeed.
[26:12.630 --> 26:16.390]  They could have given the story to another organization who may have...
[26:16.390 --> 26:16.970]  But they weren't keeping it.
[26:17.030 --> 26:18.850]  Look, BuzzFeed could have gone out and done the same thing.
[26:18.950 --> 26:19.970]  They could have tracked down this guy.
[26:20.150 --> 26:21.330]  Any of us could have done that.
[26:21.490 --> 26:24.170]  But they decided that they got there first, I guess.
[26:24.170 --> 26:25.330]  Well, here's another issue then.
[26:25.330 --> 26:29.150]  So CNN says, we're not going to report the identity of this person.
[26:29.230 --> 26:31.070]  But here's how we got to his identity.
[26:31.550 --> 26:32.330]  Here's the roadmap.
[26:32.630 --> 26:36.710]  We compared the Reddit post to the Facebook post, and we're easily able to identify him.
[26:36.830 --> 26:43.030]  So if you give the roadmap to identifying somebody, and then just don't identify them, are you asking other people to identify?
[26:43.650 --> 26:46.350]  Well, you're giving the information, you're teaching people how to fish.
[26:46.630 --> 26:47.010]  That's right.
[26:47.110 --> 26:47.350]  Literally.
[26:47.710 --> 26:48.070]  Yes, yes.
[26:48.510 --> 26:51.230]  So you're saying, will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest?
[26:51.650 --> 26:52.670]  Yes, exactly.
[26:53.070 --> 27:02.530]  Well, the word that, in reserving, I agree there could be better wording or less legal terms thrown in there.
[27:02.930 --> 27:23.350]  But like saying that we, I don't know, instead of reserving a right, it's our duty to change this, to release this information as per our duty in case of him not honoring his word.
[27:23.350 --> 27:32.830]  Because I think the question was, he's remorseful, he's saying this now to us, almost as an apology over the video that it got this far.
[27:33.050 --> 27:42.630]  But if his remorse is not proven, in other words, he doesn't take things down, or that would then make their story false, right?
[27:42.630 --> 27:51.490]  So they would reserve the right to go back on their record of a story about them, which I also think is important for them to cover in a competitive media environment.
[27:51.630 --> 27:54.790]  I don't think it's unfair for them to cover something about them.
[27:54.790 --> 28:15.250]  But it seems that they're speaking to that, his story changes, if it is not true, if he doesn't honor what he's saying, his feeling about it is now, we'll change, maybe we may include more information about him, and why he's more of a liar than he already may or may not be.
[28:15.250 --> 28:16.910]  Because he becomes a different person.
[28:16.910 --> 28:25.550]  If he goes back on his apology and starts being a jerk again, then he's not that remorseful person that deserves protection against being identified.
[28:25.890 --> 28:28.970]  And if he does that, CNN reserves the right to identify him.
[28:29.050 --> 28:32.710]  And my only criticism of CNN is that they didn't identify him in the first place.
[28:32.830 --> 28:33.810]  I think they should have.
[28:33.930 --> 28:35.990]  I think they're going way too easy on him.
[28:36.430 --> 28:44.950]  I don't understand all this, all this criticism that they're receiving now for saying that they might release the information if circumstances change.
[28:45.250 --> 28:48.690]  I'm just wondering, like, because I'm personally, I'm not in favor of doxing.
[28:48.790 --> 28:49.750]  I think it's dirty pool.
[28:49.870 --> 28:52.410]  I think it's, you know, maybe a last resort thing to do.
[28:52.530 --> 28:58.030]  But in this case, is there some way CNN could have ended this article without the reserving the right?
[28:58.170 --> 29:03.170]  Is there some way they could have come off this looking like less of a, oh, where are the bullies now type of thing?
[29:03.170 --> 29:03.450]  Sure.
[29:03.530 --> 29:05.110]  They could have just omitted that entirely.
[29:05.410 --> 29:08.790]  They could have just said, we're not publishing this identity out of an abundance of caution.
[29:09.270 --> 29:09.950]  Full stop.
[29:10.150 --> 29:10.290]  Yeah.
[29:10.450 --> 29:14.050]  And I think it's assumed that they have that right.
[29:14.210 --> 29:15.730]  They can do whatever they want in the future.
[29:16.010 --> 29:16.710]  I agree with that.
[29:16.870 --> 29:19.590]  You don't have to reserve a right that is never going to be waived.
[29:19.690 --> 29:21.570]  They're a journalistic organization.
[29:21.890 --> 29:27.710]  And I think what Kyle gets to is, they have a duty here to report this if this changes.
[29:27.710 --> 29:35.110]  But when you make it a conditional like that, like, should any of that change, it implies or...
[29:35.110 --> 29:36.110]  It's clumsy.
[29:36.310 --> 29:36.930]  It's clumsy.
[29:36.930 --> 29:40.890]  And it seems to imply that there's some sort of agreement between CNN and the poster.
[29:40.890 --> 29:46.130]  The agreement is that this guy is telling the truth in his remorse and we're going to report it as such.
[29:46.310 --> 29:48.950]  I would get that out of the story without the sentence.
[29:48.950 --> 29:57.050]  As you suggest, eliminating that sentence, I would get that there is an agreement that this guy isn't going to be a jerk in the future and that's why he's being kept anonymous.
[29:57.650 --> 30:10.330]  But when people react almost with glee as soon as they see that sentence, it tells me they're just waiting for an opportunity to jump on CNN and basically cover up whatever Donald Trump is doing.
[30:10.330 --> 30:15.350]  And I think, you know, I hate to say it, but I think in the case of WikiLeaks, that is exactly what happened.
[30:15.550 --> 30:17.250]  You saw Trump doing something horrible.
[30:17.430 --> 30:19.630]  You saw CNN use a clumsy sentence.
[30:19.990 --> 30:25.610]  WikiLeaks is all over that and not saying a word about the horrors that Donald Trump is perpetuating.
[30:25.790 --> 30:27.390]  That's what we should be talking about.
[30:27.590 --> 30:30.670]  And if we're not talking about that, there's something seriously wrong.
[30:30.670 --> 30:38.690]  Well, you know, with respect to WikiLeaks and Julian Assange, you know, he had mentioned, as did Ted Cruz, that CNN may have, in fact, committed a crime here.
[30:39.930 --> 30:43.690]  And specifically, Assange had mentioned 18 U.S.C.
[30:43.890 --> 30:47.010]  Section 241, Conspiracy Against Rights.
[30:47.290 --> 30:48.110]  Oh, I've got to hear this.
[30:48.170 --> 30:51.090]  Yeah, coincidentally, I happen to have a copy of the statute with me.
[30:51.130 --> 30:53.210]  Yeah, you carry U.S.
[30:53.330 --> 30:54.350]  case law with you.
[30:54.630 --> 30:55.310]  It's ridiculous.
[30:55.310 --> 30:56.550]  Only when I'm hanging out with you.
[30:56.730 --> 30:58.210]  Just the penal code as well.
[30:58.750 --> 30:59.590]  It's probably wise.
[30:59.590 --> 31:00.870]  Yeah, indeed it is.
[31:00.950 --> 31:01.010]  Yeah.
[31:01.610 --> 31:11.490]  And this literally says, if two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person in any state, territory, commonwealth, possession, or district...
[31:11.490 --> 31:12.650]  Hang on, you need theme music for this.
[31:12.670 --> 31:12.870]  Hold on.
[31:13.010 --> 31:13.190]  Okay.
[31:15.650 --> 31:16.330]  Go ahead.
[31:17.590 --> 31:29.570]  If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person in any state, territory, commonwealth, possession, or district...
[31:29.590 --> 31:45.610]  In the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege, secured to them by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his having so exercised the same, they shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years.
[31:46.270 --> 31:49.450]  So this is a conspiracy to suppress First Amendment rights.
[31:50.630 --> 31:51.190]  Now...
[31:51.190 --> 31:56.830]  Can we turn that... that's really spooking... I'm sorry, this is somehow triggering something in my mind.
[31:56.830 --> 31:59.610]  Can we... I don't know, that music scares me for some reason.
[31:59.830 --> 32:05.390]  Well, speaking of triggering things in your mind, you know, ironically, 18 U.S.C.
[32:05.530 --> 32:15.090]  Section 241 actually contains a sentence enhancement provision if the conspiracy against rights includes an aggravated sexual assault.
[32:15.590 --> 32:18.290]  So I just thought that was ironic coming from Julian.
[32:18.290 --> 32:30.930]  Well, yeah, you know, honestly, though, as a lawyer, can you really seriously say that a journalist releasing somebody's name who is in the news constitutes a crime in any way?
[32:31.070 --> 32:43.830]  You know, this is, I think, the real problem here is, you know, I don't remember if it was Simon or Garfunkel or both, or maybe even somebody completely different, but said that, you know, man hears what he wants to hear and ignores all the rest.
[32:43.830 --> 32:45.830]  And this is exactly what we're doing.
[32:45.930 --> 32:47.170]  Nobody's looking at this objectively.
[32:47.170 --> 32:49.710]  They're looking at this and seeing what they want to see in it.
[32:49.850 --> 33:02.150]  It's the echo chamber problem all over again that we saw, probably costing us the election of our world president, in the collective sense, I use that word today, back in November.
[33:02.690 --> 33:11.810]  We're only seeing... people are only reading into this what they want to see, which is extortion, which is a criminal enterprise from CNN, which is more fake news.
[33:11.810 --> 33:12.570]  That's all they're doing.
[33:12.630 --> 33:13.850]  Nobody's reading this objectively.
[33:14.110 --> 33:18.270]  It's totally nuts, I think, to think that this is a violation of the criminal law.
[33:18.450 --> 33:27.870]  All CNN did was report and inartfully draft one sentence that they later explained over and over and over again to nobody's satisfaction.
[33:28.190 --> 33:33.070]  And the fact that nobody is satisfied with the explanation is what's so scary to me about this.
[33:33.070 --> 33:33.830]  Yes, absolutely.
[33:34.030 --> 33:37.470]  And it plays right into Trump's hands as far as what he wants to do.
[33:37.650 --> 33:43.270]  The suspicion of the media, demonizing them, making individuals the victims.
[33:44.670 --> 33:54.210]  It's really... it's very unsatisfying to me to see the way this is unfolding and to see how people I expect better of are falling for this.
[33:54.210 --> 33:55.930]  You know, it's very different, too, also.
[33:56.090 --> 33:58.850]  I just want to point out in case people think that this is the same thing.
[33:59.110 --> 34:09.390]  If you have a relationship with a source, if CNN was talking to this person and they were giving them information, they have an obligation to protect their identity.
[34:09.390 --> 34:10.170]  And they should.
[34:10.350 --> 34:11.830]  People have gone to jail for this.
[34:12.050 --> 34:13.850]  That's not the relationship they had here.
[34:13.950 --> 34:20.270]  This person was not an anonymous source for them or working for them in any way.
[34:20.270 --> 34:26.650]  This was a person that basically created a news story, was remaining anonymous until they were no longer anonymous.
[34:27.130 --> 34:32.270]  And CNN made a decision to not reveal their name based on the apology that the person issued.
[34:32.610 --> 34:33.590]  That's their decision.
[34:33.810 --> 34:35.310]  That's what I have a problem with.
[34:35.490 --> 34:37.550]  But that's their right.
[34:37.670 --> 34:38.250]  They have every right.
[34:38.370 --> 34:42.910]  And this criticism of them just boggles my imagination.
[34:43.190 --> 34:45.810]  I think you're right, though, because, look, what they...
[34:46.350 --> 34:55.190]  It sort of goes back to what I was saying earlier, which is they are inherently part of the story because the stupid animated GIF contained their microphone logo and the guy being clotheslined, right?
[34:55.330 --> 34:57.510]  So this is Trump beating up CNN again.
[34:57.510 --> 35:08.090]  And if they reported on this and they provided the identity of the original poster, the Hans Aho solo from Reddit, then there would have been a lot of criticism levied at them for doxing it.
[35:08.090 --> 35:15.710]  And so they decided to take what appeared to them to be a more laudable approach, the moral high road of withholding the person's identity.
[35:15.870 --> 35:17.590]  And they still maintain that.
[35:17.730 --> 35:25.470]  And I think, frankly, that, you know, that should really be applauded, especially in the face of this constant barrage of criticism.
[35:25.670 --> 35:29.610]  I think we can disagree about whether or not this person's identity should have been revealed.
[35:29.610 --> 35:34.670]  This is the part I have a problem with, because you say that they would take a lot of heat if they identified the guy.
[35:34.890 --> 35:51.310]  If someone were to go out and spray paint all kinds of hateful rhetoric on a mosque, all right, and we at WBAI found out the name of the person who did that, are you saying we would face criticism from anyone other than the extreme right for revealing that information?
[35:51.310 --> 35:54.670]  I think people have the right to know who does things like that.
[35:54.770 --> 36:04.350]  And this person did similar things on the Internet by spreading hate speech and saying reprehensible things about religions, about races, about individual people.
[36:04.870 --> 36:08.350]  And it's not about it's not about the the parody video.
[36:08.510 --> 36:19.790]  And that's the other thing that bothers me is that he's being he's being talked about on in places like WikiLeaks as an artist, as somebody who is, you know, putting out parodies and things like that and being humorous.
[36:19.790 --> 36:25.190]  No, I mean, maybe you can laugh at that video, but the other things he was doing were not funny.
[36:25.370 --> 36:29.230]  They were very harmful to to all sorts of people.
[36:29.770 --> 36:30.710]  Yeah, it is free speech.
[36:30.830 --> 36:32.850]  And it's something that we defend in this country.
[36:33.210 --> 36:36.010]  And I would defend his right to say these things.
[36:36.250 --> 36:40.690]  But again, like I said before, there are consequences to things you say.
[36:40.810 --> 36:42.450]  I completely agree with that.
[36:42.570 --> 36:56.830]  But on on the other hand, I think this story is a little bit different in the sense that I think CNN must have been very sensitive to the idea of being perceived as having a personal vendetta against this particular person, which is why I think from the outset,
[36:57.050 --> 37:02.590]  perhaps the story should have been handed over to another organization that could have reported the name and just dealt with it.
[37:02.730 --> 37:04.210]  Or maybe you're right, Emanuel.
[37:04.390 --> 37:07.450]  Maybe they should have just reported his name and be done with it.
[37:07.450 --> 37:09.530]  Yeah, the thing is, yeah, they're taking less.
[37:09.530 --> 37:16.070]  This reads, I think, as tripping over them, just falling over themselves, being cautious and being overly polite.
[37:16.150 --> 37:20.670]  And it reads as a subtext like, yeah, we could have, but we didn't.
[37:20.790 --> 37:24.850]  And I'm sure it was very tempting to withhold in the first place.
[37:24.970 --> 37:26.030]  And they ought not to have.
[37:26.110 --> 37:28.830]  Actually, after this discussion, I kind of am with Emanuel on that.
[37:28.950 --> 37:35.950]  Then I would say shame on all the other journalists who didn't get there first, who didn't report this story because they should have done that.
[37:35.970 --> 37:37.430]  But CNN got there first.
[37:37.430 --> 37:40.730]  Again, unfortunately, they can use that as their next tagline.
[37:40.890 --> 37:49.410]  But how about the guy, though, that revealed all the anti-Semitic and anti-Islam links to this video poster?
[37:49.750 --> 37:54.190]  And is anyone talking about this, what he had to go through when he revealed this information?
[37:54.430 --> 38:05.810]  All the death threats and basic hate speech that he was encountered with nonstop ever since he did that only a day earlier.
[38:06.250 --> 38:07.730]  No one's talking about that.
[38:07.990 --> 38:09.790]  And that, to me, is pretty vile as well.
[38:09.990 --> 38:18.190]  And what this is all accomplishing is basically jamming the radar of the really important story here, which is that the President of the United States posted a video of himself pummeling the free press.
[38:18.190 --> 38:25.430]  And by doing it, implicitly endorsed the work of this anti-Semitic, anti-Muslim, anti-whatever a-hole from the internet.
[38:25.910 --> 38:29.450]  And, you know, the whole focus should be on that.
[38:29.550 --> 38:31.270]  It shouldn't be on all this other attached crap.
[38:31.270 --> 38:32.690]  He's in Poland now, by the way.
[38:32.850 --> 38:33.690]  He's overseas.
[38:33.710 --> 38:34.730]  He's out of the country.
[38:35.010 --> 38:36.050]  Did he stop golfing long enough to get to Poland?
[38:36.050 --> 38:40.770]  Maybe this isn't the right forum to talk about this, but I know it takes time to basically organize a coup.
[38:41.410 --> 38:46.370]  But, you know, I realize he's back next week, so we don't have enough time.
[38:46.790 --> 38:52.190]  But if we could convince him that there's one in progress, that might result in some fun.
[38:52.490 --> 38:55.270]  I'm glad I'm carrying around a copy of the penal code.
[38:55.270 --> 38:55.910]  You're going to need more.
[38:56.050 --> 38:57.950]  Yeah, you're going to need some more pages there.
[38:58.270 --> 38:58.350]  Yeah.
[38:58.750 --> 39:07.650]  But to go back to what Rob just said, you know, the real story here really should not be about CNN and this fumble that they made.
[39:07.710 --> 39:08.910]  And it's a minor fumble, really.
[39:09.130 --> 39:10.270]  There's no extortion.
[39:10.430 --> 39:11.190]  There's no crime.
[39:11.610 --> 39:19.410]  CNN isn't going to be monitoring the communications of this particular person to make sure that they are in line with their values or they're going to dox him.
[39:19.530 --> 39:23.230]  That's all, you know, way out, beyond the pale, unreasonable.
[39:23.230 --> 39:30.870]  But the crazy story is that apparently the White House had said that they didn't get this from Reddit, right?
[39:30.950 --> 39:35.330]  They had said that, you know, somebody else in the White House had apparently...
[39:35.330 --> 39:37.890]  Well, they didn't say this, but this is apparent from what happened.
[39:38.410 --> 39:42.010]  Somebody had added and edited this to include sound.
[39:42.290 --> 39:47.310]  The original animated GIF did not include any sound.
[39:47.310 --> 39:48.350]  I didn't hear any sound on this.
[39:48.830 --> 39:50.470]  The version I heard didn't have sound.
[39:50.690 --> 39:52.070]  But, okay, maybe there's a version that does have sound.
[39:52.070 --> 39:55.130]  Apparently, the version that was tweeted, I believe, had sound.
[39:55.270 --> 39:55.890]  What was the sound?
[39:56.190 --> 40:01.730]  I think it might have been cheering or applause or something or just, you know, WrestleMania nonsense.
[40:01.990 --> 40:02.870]  Who the hell knows?
[40:03.070 --> 40:03.390]  Uh-huh.
[40:03.650 --> 40:10.690]  But somebody inside the White House probably edited this to make it more fun for the president to tweet.
[40:10.690 --> 40:11.970]  Or like a loop or something.
[40:12.150 --> 40:12.410]  Yeah, exactly.
[40:12.410 --> 40:13.550]  Who knows what they did.
[40:13.730 --> 40:20.910]  You know, they're basically just wasting all their time coming up with videos and tweets and everything else is going to hell.
[40:20.910 --> 40:22.030]  And it's crazy.
[40:22.090 --> 40:25.210]  It's crazy that the president of the United States tweeted this.
[40:25.370 --> 40:30.990]  One other thing I would mention about Julian and stuff is, remember, he's kind of sick right now.
[40:31.090 --> 40:37.650]  So, just putting that out there might be not his best judgment call on some of these issues.
[40:38.110 --> 40:42.590]  I'm not going to call somebody's mental health into question if I disagree with them.
[40:42.710 --> 40:46.850]  I just think that what he's doing is, you know, it misses a lot of points.
[40:46.850 --> 40:52.710]  Right, but he might not be able to really think about this in all ways, given the conditions of his detention at the moment.
[40:52.870 --> 40:53.770]  I'm just pointing that out.
[40:53.770 --> 40:54.770]  He's not the only one, though.
[40:54.870 --> 40:58.170]  He's not the only one of which, you know, I expect better.
[40:58.490 --> 40:58.730]  Right.
[40:58.870 --> 41:00.910]  So many people seem to be buying into this.
[41:01.090 --> 41:03.030]  Hey, I want to take some phone calls.
[41:03.150 --> 41:04.430]  We haven't heard from our listeners in a while.
[41:04.630 --> 41:12.570]  Our phone number, and we can only take one phone call at a time until we get more phone lines put in, 347-335-0818.
[41:12.750 --> 41:16.390]  That's 347-335-0818.
[41:17.830 --> 41:19.690]  And that will be our...
[41:19.690 --> 41:20.950]  No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
[41:21.190 --> 41:25.690]  Look, I really, really, that music spooks me out.
[41:25.830 --> 41:26.450]  I like it.
[41:26.670 --> 41:29.710]  Yeah, but it reminds me of something violent or just...
[41:29.710 --> 41:33.970]  I don't know where I've heard this before, but it's just...
[41:35.010 --> 41:35.870]  I'm confused.
[41:36.230 --> 41:37.270]  It puts me in a good mood.
[41:38.550 --> 41:39.170]  Thank you so much.
[41:40.170 --> 41:40.990]  Yeah, okay.
[41:41.330 --> 41:43.170]  That's just kind of mortifying for me.
[41:44.230 --> 41:46.990]  347-335-0818 is our telephone number.
[41:47.130 --> 41:50.310]  Our email address, OTH at 2600.com.
[41:50.470 --> 41:53.690]  You can tweet at us, the Hacker Radio Show.
[41:53.790 --> 41:55.150]  There's no thought in front of that.
[41:55.250 --> 41:55.470]  I'm sorry.
[41:55.930 --> 41:56.850]  Hacker Radio Show.
[41:58.030 --> 42:01.670]  And we'd love to hear anything that you have to say.
[42:02.870 --> 42:08.610]  And we have a phone call, so I'm going to try and activate the board here to receive it.
[42:08.810 --> 42:09.350]  Good evening.
[42:09.510 --> 42:10.230]  You're on Off the Hook.
[42:10.330 --> 42:10.590]  Go ahead.
[42:11.470 --> 42:11.990]  Yeah, hi.
[42:12.150 --> 42:13.790]  I haven't heard Bernie S.
[42:13.930 --> 42:16.850]  on the air in a while, and I was wondering, is he okay?
[42:18.070 --> 42:18.690]  Bernie's fine.
[42:19.010 --> 42:19.550]  Bernie's fine.
[42:19.550 --> 42:20.990]  He's just not on the radio right now.
[42:21.090 --> 42:25.190]  I'm sure you'll hear his voice again in the future, perhaps in the near future as well.
[42:25.330 --> 42:28.410]  But right now, he's just not on our show.
[42:28.410 --> 42:30.310]  But that could change.
[42:31.130 --> 42:31.330]  Okay.
[42:31.550 --> 42:31.870]  All right.
[42:31.970 --> 42:33.130]  Well, keep up the great work.
[42:33.290 --> 42:33.410]  Sure.
[42:33.410 --> 42:34.330]  I love what you're doing.
[42:34.550 --> 42:34.850]  All right.
[42:35.030 --> 42:35.290]  Thanks.
[42:35.550 --> 42:35.710]  Thanks.
[42:35.710 --> 42:36.390]  Have a great night.
[42:36.570 --> 42:36.830]  You too.
[42:39.010 --> 42:41.370]  347-335-0818 is our phone number.
[42:41.390 --> 42:44.710]  If you have any other administrative questions for us, we're happy to answer those as well.
[42:45.530 --> 42:48.350]  But we'd like to talk about this subject or any other subject as well.
[42:48.430 --> 42:50.530]  And, you know, there's other major news going on.
[42:50.570 --> 42:53.390]  For instance, the Dark Overlord's Twitter account was suspended.
[42:53.390 --> 42:54.450]  The Netflix hacker.
[42:54.730 --> 42:56.730]  Apparently, the Dark Overlord is not a person.
[42:56.750 --> 42:57.350]  It's a group.
[42:58.210 --> 43:01.130]  The group of hackers known for leaking Orange is the New Black.
[43:01.970 --> 43:08.350]  And apparently, they've also gotten into ABC's new game show, Harvey's Thunderdome.
[43:08.830 --> 43:11.230]  I mean, who cares about this nonsense?
[43:11.650 --> 43:17.950]  So they got into a computer and were able to make a TV show available to people.
[43:18.250 --> 43:24.390]  And I guarantee you that the people downloading the show and watching it are not the same people that would go out and buy that show.
[43:24.850 --> 43:28.030]  So we really need to stop getting our panties in a bunch about this.
[43:28.190 --> 43:33.130]  You know, sending people to jail over Twitter hacks and revealing content.
[43:33.550 --> 43:34.630]  The whole thing is silly.
[43:34.850 --> 43:35.350]  It really is.
[43:35.350 --> 43:36.690]  We should be talking about more important things.
[43:36.810 --> 43:37.250]  Good evening.
[43:37.370 --> 43:37.850]  You're on Off the Hook.
[43:37.910 --> 43:38.150]  Go ahead.
[43:40.150 --> 43:40.550]  Me?
[43:40.790 --> 43:41.290]  Is it me?
[43:41.390 --> 43:41.970]  It is you.
[43:43.110 --> 43:44.510]  Hi, my name is George.
[43:44.690 --> 43:44.950]  Hi, George.
[43:45.250 --> 43:45.870]  I'm from New Jersey.
[43:46.270 --> 43:47.150]  George from New Jersey.
[43:47.210 --> 43:47.590]  How are you doing?
[43:48.690 --> 43:49.090]  Okay.
[43:49.750 --> 43:51.610]  I have a technical problem.
[43:51.610 --> 43:53.530]  Could I ask you something about that?
[43:53.690 --> 43:54.770]  Are we off subject?
[43:54.990 --> 43:59.430]  Well, that sounds more like something for the Personal Computer Show, which follows us at nine.
[43:59.650 --> 44:00.690]  Do you think it's that kind of a question?
[44:02.870 --> 44:03.350]  Yeah.
[44:03.350 --> 44:11.510]  And I'm just wondering, when I send something to like that Vista Prince, it always is distorted.
[44:11.510 --> 44:12.830]  I can't figure out why.
[44:13.050 --> 44:14.710]  Have you tried turning it off and on again?
[44:14.830 --> 44:17.170]  Start with high resolution original artwork.
[44:17.370 --> 44:17.870]  Oh, okay.
[44:17.990 --> 44:18.350]  Or that.
[44:18.350 --> 44:23.030]  If you want very high resolution original artwork, and then you won't have that problem.
[44:23.630 --> 44:27.610]  I'm going from a vector program into a JPEG.
[44:27.990 --> 44:28.290]  Okay.
[44:28.550 --> 44:29.470]  So, yeah.
[44:29.670 --> 44:35.990]  Maybe you aren't using large enough dimensions on your art files.
[44:36.190 --> 44:36.490]  I don't know.
[44:36.510 --> 44:38.350]  We're going down a rabbit hole here.
[44:38.450 --> 44:38.830]  Go ahead, Rob.
[44:38.830 --> 44:45.510]  Yeah, I have a little bit of experience with Vistaprint, and their own help and customer service people can be helpful in this.
[44:45.590 --> 44:47.170]  So, I think maybe that's your best bet, too.
[44:47.210 --> 44:49.890]  Get in touch with them, and they can help you out.
[44:50.010 --> 45:00.450]  Yeah, you might need to make a very large JPEG from your vector files, and then serve that up and be very liberal with the dimensions so that it fits.
[45:00.570 --> 45:02.170]  But you're going to have to contact them for that.
[45:02.170 --> 45:03.250]  We wish you luck on that.
[45:03.410 --> 45:04.230]  Thank you for your call.
[45:04.430 --> 45:15.750]  And we are talking about civil rights issues, the media, the press, the current state of society, where hackers fit in, the threat of hackers, the non-threat of hackers.
[45:16.770 --> 45:20.970]  Well, you know, we could also talk about Ted Cruz tonight as well.
[45:21.130 --> 45:22.010]  What did he do?
[45:22.130 --> 45:23.230]  Didn't we already talk about him?
[45:23.330 --> 45:24.310]  Did we talk about him already?
[45:24.450 --> 45:25.190]  I can't even remember.
[45:25.330 --> 45:26.050]  I don't think so.
[45:26.090 --> 45:28.710]  He's so inconsequential that I would have forgotten by now.
[45:28.850 --> 45:29.490]  It's been, what, 46 minutes?
[45:29.490 --> 45:34.390]  We've talked about stupidity, and we've talked about, you know, politics, but we haven't necessarily talked about him.
[45:34.610 --> 45:35.890]  Can we talk to this person first?
[45:36.030 --> 45:38.050]  Because I guarantee whatever they have to say will make me happy.
[45:38.270 --> 45:38.570]  Not about Ted Cruz.
[45:38.790 --> 45:39.810]  We will go back to Ted Cruz.
[45:39.950 --> 45:40.730]  We'll go back to Ted Cruz.
[45:40.950 --> 45:42.510]  But let's do this first.
[45:42.610 --> 45:42.850]  Good evening.
[45:42.990 --> 45:43.770]  You're on Off the Hook.
[45:44.910 --> 45:45.370]  Oh, yes.
[45:45.430 --> 45:46.090]  That's much better.
[45:46.230 --> 45:46.850]  I love this caller.
[45:46.850 --> 45:47.370]  It really is.
[45:48.170 --> 45:48.870]  Go ahead.
[45:49.050 --> 45:49.430]  Go ahead.
[45:49.510 --> 45:49.950]  Get your Ted Cruz sticks out of the way.
[45:49.950 --> 45:52.270]  I would much rather listen to a dial tone than Ted Cruz.
[45:52.470 --> 46:04.910]  This Ted Cruz actually suggested via Twitter today, which seems to be the official channel for all government communications these days, that CNN may have actually, actually, in fact, violated a Georgia criminal statute.
[46:05.150 --> 46:05.790]  Oh, for God's sake.
[46:06.010 --> 46:17.970]  And then I think when he realized that the reporter at issue here was in New York, he then tweeted out, oh, well, here's another law in New York, another penal law, which actually has to deal with coercion in the second degree.
[46:18.130 --> 46:22.410]  So he both accused CNN of violating, which just makes no sense to me whatsoever.
[46:22.730 --> 46:23.570]  But the guy is in Tennessee.
[46:25.030 --> 46:25.470]  Uh-oh.
[46:26.050 --> 46:27.250]  Can we hit the delay button?
[46:27.750 --> 46:28.090]  Oh, yeah.
[46:28.210 --> 46:28.750]  No, that's fine.
[46:28.750 --> 46:28.990]  Sorry.
[46:29.050 --> 46:29.290]  Sorry.
[46:29.290 --> 46:30.330]  No, I don't know that.
[46:30.510 --> 46:31.210]  We'll edit that out.
[46:31.210 --> 46:32.170]  That was only a theory.
[46:32.310 --> 46:32.750]  I'm sorry.
[46:33.090 --> 46:41.950]  But I think what he was presuming was because CNN's headquarters is in Atlanta, that the penal laws of Georgia would probably apply to their conduct.
[46:42.230 --> 46:43.570]  Well, maybe they're a Delaware company.
[46:44.150 --> 46:45.730]  I'm sure they are.
[46:46.830 --> 46:48.150]  Do your homework, Ted.
[46:48.270 --> 46:55.390]  But what you have revealed is that you're the nerd sitting around reading penal codes and trolling people with them.
[46:55.450 --> 46:56.790]  That's exactly right.
[46:56.950 --> 46:57.990]  Who has no friends?
[46:57.990 --> 46:59.010]  What else does he have to do?
[47:01.310 --> 47:03.150]  347-335-0818.
[47:03.470 --> 47:04.270]  That's our phone number.
[47:04.350 --> 47:05.070]  Please give us a call.
[47:05.210 --> 47:06.310]  We have a few minutes left.
[47:06.890 --> 47:20.350]  Also, a reminder, those of you who pledged, hopefully you've paid up by now because we are getting the list of names and addresses from the station so that we can send you the premium that you pledged for for the spring fun drive.
[47:20.590 --> 47:23.910]  And this is right before we start with a summer fun drive in two weeks.
[47:24.290 --> 47:30.670]  So if you have not paid, you'll have to email us and let us know that so that you don't fall into a black hole.
[47:31.270 --> 47:33.610]  Otherwise, you can expect to receive your premium very soon.
[47:33.930 --> 47:34.930]  Let's take another phone call.
[47:35.010 --> 47:35.310]  Good evening.
[47:35.430 --> 47:36.110]  You're on Off the Hook.
[47:36.690 --> 47:37.250]  Go ahead.
[47:38.590 --> 47:39.430]  Speak up, please.
[47:41.350 --> 47:42.050]  Three seconds.
[47:43.930 --> 47:44.650]  Well, that's...
[47:44.650 --> 47:46.570]  You can't do anything when people don't speak.
[47:46.630 --> 47:47.410]  It's good that you gave them a chance.
[47:47.470 --> 47:47.810]  I did.
[47:47.970 --> 47:48.270]  I tried.
[47:48.990 --> 47:50.530]  347-335-0818.
[47:50.690 --> 47:51.290]  Let me be clear.
[47:51.290 --> 47:53.690]  When you call, you have to speak when we speak to you.
[47:53.870 --> 47:55.190]  It's your airwaves, people.
[47:55.350 --> 47:57.450]  I mean, use them as you please.
[47:57.490 --> 47:59.870]  We're giving you all of them.
[47:59.930 --> 48:01.010]  And it's your phone line, too.
[48:01.270 --> 48:04.310]  So if you have trouble using your phone line, let's take this one.
[48:04.330 --> 48:04.690]  Good evening.
[48:04.810 --> 48:05.670]  You're on Off the Hook.
[48:06.810 --> 48:07.170]  Yes.
[48:07.370 --> 48:08.070]  Hi, Emmanuel.
[48:08.330 --> 48:08.570]  Hi.
[48:09.430 --> 48:09.630]  Good.
[48:10.410 --> 48:11.750]  Wondering about Bernie.
[48:11.950 --> 48:13.090]  Haven't heard him for a while.
[48:13.290 --> 48:14.510]  Are you listening to the show?
[48:14.930 --> 48:16.650]  Because we just answered this question.
[48:17.010 --> 48:17.330]  Oh.
[48:18.190 --> 48:18.990]  You know...
[48:20.270 --> 48:20.670]  Sorry.
[48:21.630 --> 48:23.030]  Well, he's not on now.
[48:23.110 --> 48:25.310]  Hopefully he will be on in the future, but that's...
[48:25.310 --> 48:29.590]  I was listening to the show, but didn't listen for a few minutes.
[48:29.730 --> 48:31.190]  But you heard almost all of it.
[48:31.230 --> 48:32.430]  I missed that part, I guess.
[48:32.570 --> 48:33.010]  Okay, great.
[48:33.310 --> 48:33.950]  Want him back.
[48:34.030 --> 48:34.290]  Thanks.
[48:34.290 --> 48:35.250]  Anything else on your mind?
[48:35.430 --> 48:35.750]  No.
[48:36.090 --> 48:36.450]  All right.
[48:36.710 --> 48:37.130]  Thank you.
[48:37.850 --> 48:38.230]  Okay.
[48:38.670 --> 48:41.210]  Anyone with anything else on their mind, please call us.
[48:41.330 --> 48:43.310]  3-4-7-3-3-5-0-8-1-8.
[48:43.410 --> 48:44.010]  Let's try this one.
[48:44.050 --> 48:44.370]  Good evening.
[48:44.490 --> 48:45.190]  You're on Off the Hook.
[48:46.470 --> 48:46.950]  Hi.
[48:47.370 --> 48:47.530]  Hi.
[48:48.130 --> 48:54.350]  Did you speak to the fact that CNN got doxxed?
[48:54.770 --> 49:00.250]  Their reporter's address, home addresses, been released to the public?
[49:00.770 --> 49:03.650]  Oh, with the big Jewish stars next to them, right?
[49:03.850 --> 49:04.110]  Yeah.
[49:04.230 --> 49:04.410]  Yeah.
[49:04.750 --> 49:06.310]  Who released that information?
[49:06.550 --> 49:07.410]  Was it the same guy?
[49:07.470 --> 49:09.090]  Yeah, we didn't get into that part of the story.
[49:09.490 --> 49:09.550]  Yeah, it was the same guy.
[49:09.550 --> 49:10.670]  It was the same guy?
[49:11.010 --> 49:14.410]  So he doxxed CNN, and they didn't return the favor.
[49:14.410 --> 49:15.730]  Wow, I didn't even know that.
[49:16.490 --> 49:16.890]  Yes.
[49:17.490 --> 49:21.170]  That makes it even more ridiculous that this is happening.
[49:21.170 --> 49:27.450]  Was that after they got a commitment from him, or at least his side of the story being that there was some sort of remorse?
[49:27.650 --> 49:30.130]  I mean, that's kind of what I was speaking about earlier.
[49:30.450 --> 49:32.210]  Was it before or after he talked to them?
[49:33.210 --> 49:35.390]  Well, yeah, it was after the fact.
[49:35.750 --> 49:36.410]  Oh, interesting.
[49:36.690 --> 49:38.350]  Well, no, he didn't post that after he talked.
[49:38.470 --> 49:39.110]  He must have posted that beforehand.
[49:39.110 --> 49:41.150]  Yeah, that seems like a weird thing to do, but who knows?
[49:41.150 --> 49:52.430]  Yeah, he posted it after they wrote that they might release his information in the future when they put their statement in.
[49:52.510 --> 50:01.430]  You're saying this guy that they are protecting posted all of their personal information with the Jewish stars next to their name.
[50:01.530 --> 50:04.130]  That sounds like it might have gone the other way.
[50:04.230 --> 50:07.150]  That might have been posted before they had the conversation.
[50:07.150 --> 50:08.030]  Are you sure about this?
[50:08.030 --> 50:09.690]  No, no, no.
[50:09.930 --> 50:10.510]  It was...
[50:10.510 --> 50:13.710]  And I didn't read this in the article.
[50:13.710 --> 50:17.010]  I heard it on the Young Turks.
[50:17.350 --> 50:38.490]  And they basically stated that, yeah, after they wrote that they might release his information in the future or that they reserve the right to release them in the future, is he turned around and put out bomb women, home address, telephone numbers, and a bunch of others there,
[50:38.630 --> 50:41.290]  a reporter's home addresses and phone numbers.
[50:41.550 --> 50:55.630]  I think, Kola, you might have this backwards because the image with the Jewish stars and the CNN reporters and all that information, that was found in this a-hole's posting history after it came about who he was.
[50:55.630 --> 50:57.270]  This was something that was posted earlier.
[50:57.430 --> 51:02.130]  And of course, even though this person deleted all their stuff, it's still circulating out there because it's the internet.
[51:02.130 --> 51:05.270]  So anyone can get hold of that and do whatever they wish with it.
[51:05.430 --> 51:05.570]  Yeah.
[51:05.710 --> 51:22.610]  And I think it would go against the grain too, because the K-file guy, Kaczynski, apparently had also noted that he had been in touch with the Hans a-hole character after the story had run, who had then confirmed to him that, yes, there was no blackmail,
[51:22.810 --> 51:25.710]  there was no extortion, there was no coercion here.
[51:26.030 --> 51:27.650]  This was entirely proper.
[51:27.850 --> 51:33.130]  So it would seem a bit incongruous for him to then double back and start posting as he started calling.
[51:33.130 --> 51:38.630]  But, Kola, I'm very happy you brought this up because it speaks to something that is much more serious.
[51:38.770 --> 51:49.710]  The fact that all these reporters' personal information, home addresses, are being given out in this climate of utter hatred and hostility towards investigative reporters.
[51:49.830 --> 51:53.290]  And I really have to worry for their safety at this point.
[51:53.530 --> 51:54.510]  I do too.
[51:54.710 --> 51:56.470]  I mean, I didn't catch all of the stories.
[51:56.550 --> 51:58.390]  I'm glad that you explained it.
[51:59.010 --> 52:02.830]  You know, I'll accept your explanation and look it up further.
[52:03.050 --> 52:10.270]  But that is really outrageous that their information is out there and it's not a bigger part of the confrontation.
[52:10.930 --> 52:26.270]  This also speaks to fragmentation of media and sources and stuff like this and the way that we all have kind of different timelines of things being news because that probably was reported after you read the first story.
[52:26.410 --> 52:33.430]  But in the timeline in your head of things occurring, that was a new article about it, but it was based on older stuff.
[52:33.430 --> 52:51.030]  So you have to really be a good consumer of what you are hearing because it may be, like Rob said, something that was dug up and then reported as a new development, just as CNN said they would talk about this person by name if it became relevant in a different context.
[52:52.650 --> 52:53.970]  That's definitely a possibility.
[52:54.330 --> 52:56.050]  I didn't catch the whole story.
[52:56.070 --> 52:57.150]  I just overheard it.
[52:57.290 --> 52:57.630]  No, no.
[52:57.710 --> 52:58.070]  It happens.
[52:58.070 --> 53:06.650]  I mean, this is the kind of media landscape we're in and where things are complex and you really, yeah, in your head it went in a certain sequence of events.
[53:06.770 --> 53:09.110]  But yeah, that's totally plausible and understandable.
[53:09.370 --> 53:14.750]  You're totally right about this too because the backlash is not limited to these extortion claims either.
[53:14.930 --> 53:18.510]  People are spreading deliberately false information about the story out there.
[53:18.530 --> 53:25.790]  In particular, the fact that this a-hole character was a 15-year-old boy who had been doxed by CNN or threatened.
[53:26.030 --> 53:26.270]  He's not.
[53:26.450 --> 53:27.730]  Wait, I don't know that either.
[53:27.870 --> 53:28.130]  I'm sorry.
[53:28.310 --> 53:29.030]  How would I know that?
[53:29.910 --> 53:30.570]  He's not 15?
[53:30.610 --> 53:31.470]  No, he's...
[53:32.230 --> 53:33.270]  I don't know what he is.
[53:33.330 --> 53:34.390]  But he lives in that state that we mentioned.
[53:34.390 --> 53:34.710]  I don't know if it's he.
[53:34.870 --> 53:35.590]  It could be a she.
[53:35.630 --> 53:37.210]  She is in that state that we mentioned.
[53:37.370 --> 53:37.550]  Okay.
[53:37.790 --> 53:39.530]  We don't know anything about this person.
[53:39.630 --> 53:40.670]  No, we would never say anything.
[53:40.670 --> 53:42.290]  And we wouldn't, would we?
[53:43.030 --> 53:44.730]  You've got a couple more minutes if you want to.
[53:45.250 --> 53:46.710]  Kola, thank you very much for your call.
[53:47.450 --> 53:47.670]  Thanks.
[53:48.050 --> 53:48.590]  All right, take care.
[53:49.810 --> 53:52.090]  I'm sorry, I hit the microphone hard with my hand.
[53:52.290 --> 53:53.210]  There you go, yeah.
[53:53.210 --> 53:54.950]  Yeah, it's that kind of night.
[53:55.050 --> 54:04.330]  But it really is, it's so bothersome that, you know, it has been reported over and over and over again that this guy was not a 15-year-old a-hole, he was a middle-aged a-hole.
[54:04.870 --> 54:06.910]  And people just keep harping on it.
[54:06.970 --> 54:14.290]  If you go to the hashtag CNN blacklist, the amount of vitriol that you see in your feed is just astounding.
[54:14.550 --> 54:19.370]  And it speaks to the fact that people do not want to look objectively at things.
[54:19.510 --> 54:20.370]  Let's take one more phone call.
[54:20.430 --> 54:21.590]  Good evening, you're on Off the Hook.
[54:22.130 --> 54:23.030]  Yeah, hi there.
[54:23.210 --> 54:25.710]  I was trying to reach the Bernie show, but...
[54:25.710 --> 54:26.350]  Oh, for God's sake.
[54:26.350 --> 54:27.730]  I wanted to ask you a question, actually.
[54:27.970 --> 54:28.450]  Go ahead.
[54:28.810 --> 54:38.570]  Okay, when they want to expose somebody that they think has caused a problem or is guilty of something, you should be very careful because you may not, in fact, be guilty.
[54:39.810 --> 54:50.010]  And the second thing is that I think that the only people you should expose the address of is politicians who do not live in the district they're supposed to be representing.
[54:52.930 --> 54:53.570]  Okay, well...
[54:53.570 --> 54:53.930]  That's it.
[54:54.090 --> 54:54.510]  That's it.
[54:54.590 --> 54:56.990]  That's the only people that deserve to have their information.
[54:57.070 --> 54:58.890]  Okay, well, that seems simple enough.
[54:59.090 --> 55:00.010]  Yeah, thanks for your opinion.
[55:00.130 --> 55:00.950]  Thanks for that call there.
[55:01.010 --> 55:08.050]  But, you know, I do think that people who are guilty of various hate crimes, they deserve to be identified.
[55:08.330 --> 55:09.850]  Well, think about it from this perspective.
[55:09.850 --> 55:14.430]  When you are charged with a crime and you're brought into court, you are essentially being doxed.
[55:14.510 --> 55:16.050]  That becomes part of the public record.
[55:16.130 --> 55:16.210]  That's very true.
[55:16.230 --> 55:17.970]  It's all out there in the public domain.
[55:18.110 --> 55:18.990]  Your name is out there.
[55:19.790 --> 55:21.130]  People can go and see you.
[55:21.250 --> 55:22.410]  They know when you're going to be arraigned.
[55:22.510 --> 55:23.370]  They know when you're going to show up.
[55:23.490 --> 55:24.470]  There's a lot of information out there.
[55:24.550 --> 55:27.830]  When you do something bad, it can happen to you.
[55:28.310 --> 55:30.710]  That being said, people are innocent until proven guilty.
[55:30.950 --> 55:32.090]  I think the caller's right.
[55:32.210 --> 55:39.190]  I've always had reservations about police precincts and their Twitter accounts when they post information about people who have simply been arrested.
[55:39.430 --> 55:39.770]  Right, exactly.
[55:39.930 --> 55:44.690]  But, you know, this guy did have a conversation with them saying that he was guilty and he was sorry.
[55:44.690 --> 55:49.950]  So, I don't think we can really say that he's innocent until proven guilty when he himself confessed to doing it.
[55:50.070 --> 55:50.770]  Totally agree.
[55:50.950 --> 55:52.210]  And it depends on who we're talking about.
[55:52.230 --> 55:53.010]  We're talking about CNN.
[55:53.130 --> 56:00.170]  We have to be careful about talking about CNN because are they being claimed, they're being charged with something or are we charging?
[56:00.170 --> 56:04.750]  We weren't necessarily charging this individual with anything really or alleging anything.
[56:04.890 --> 56:06.410]  But sure, I guess we'll be careful.
[56:06.410 --> 56:07.490]  Yeah, let's...
[56:07.490 --> 56:08.670]  As everyone is these days.
[56:08.690 --> 56:09.390]  All be careful.
[56:09.530 --> 56:12.710]  And let's be careful not to forget something that's coming up later this week.
[56:12.790 --> 56:12.970]  Rob?
[56:13.270 --> 56:14.770]  Yes, 2600 meetings everywhere.
[56:14.990 --> 56:18.310]  Go to 2600.com slash meetings to find your local one or start one.
[56:18.450 --> 56:18.990]  That's right.
[56:19.070 --> 56:21.930]  And we'll be back again next week with another exciting edition of Off the Hook.
[56:22.050 --> 56:23.870]  Until then, Emmanuel, for everybody else, have a good night.
[57:42.900 --> 57:44.300]  We'll be back again next week with another edition of Off the Hook.
[57:44.300 --> 57:44.300]  We'll be back again
[59:17.720 --> 59:34.920]  next week with another edition of Off the Hook.