[00:00.000 --> 00:05.680]  My name is Bill Samuels, founder of nypeoplesconvention.org.
[00:06.460 --> 00:09.800]  WBAI is New York's leader in progressive talk.
[00:09.980 --> 00:21.080]  Whether the issue is prison reform, education reform, the legalization of marijuana, or women's rights, the people's issues are covered on these airways.
[00:21.080 --> 00:26.700]  So stay tuned for the best and leading-edge progressive ideas and analysis.
[00:27.040 --> 00:31.680]  And remember to support independent media financially.
[00:33.240 --> 00:34.300]  That's right.
[00:34.300 --> 00:36.480]  And you are listening to WBAI New York.
[00:36.620 --> 00:38.620]  The time is 8.01.
[00:39.080 --> 00:41.120]  Time once again for Off the Hook.
[00:46.520 --> 00:50.880]  The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[00:51.960 --> 00:56.380]  I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
[01:01.350 --> 01:04.670]  Good, bum-dee-le-bum, but the best is paid for worst.
[01:05.350 --> 01:08.090]  I hope that's understood, bum-dee-le-bum.
[02:30.890 --> 02:32.350]  And a very good evening, Terry Bradford.
[02:32.430 --> 02:33.150]  The program is Off the Hook.
[02:33.250 --> 02:36.110]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you, joined tonight by Voltaire.
[02:36.270 --> 02:36.630]  Hey.
[02:36.630 --> 02:36.670]  Hey.
[02:36.930 --> 02:37.670]  And Kyle.
[02:37.850 --> 02:38.330]  Hey, what's up?
[02:38.610 --> 02:39.050]  That's it?
[02:39.790 --> 02:40.630]  Where's everybody?
[02:41.170 --> 02:41.830]  Enjoying the weather.
[02:42.170 --> 02:42.410]  Wow.
[02:42.650 --> 02:44.150]  Okay, so everyone's out enjoying the weather.
[02:44.230 --> 02:47.090]  Okay, well, you know, it's really hot in here, and I don't appreciate it.
[02:47.930 --> 02:49.210]  I'm seeing multiple people.
[02:49.430 --> 02:51.230]  It's maybe a hallucination with the heat or something.
[02:51.230 --> 02:52.270]  I think that's what it is, Kyle.
[02:52.270 --> 02:53.610]  Yeah, double vision or something.
[02:53.870 --> 02:54.770]  You should just sit down and...
[02:54.770 --> 02:55.670]  It's complicated.
[02:55.830 --> 02:56.710]  Put a towel over your head.
[02:56.990 --> 02:57.390]  Complicating.
[02:57.890 --> 02:59.310]  I don't even know the word.
[02:59.450 --> 03:00.270]  Well, um...
[03:00.270 --> 03:01.210]  Go on without me.
[03:01.450 --> 03:04.890]  No, we can't do that because there's only three people, so we need you.
[03:06.170 --> 03:07.490]  But we are in the middle...
[03:07.490 --> 03:08.610]  It must be 90 degrees in here.
[03:09.690 --> 03:11.390]  We're in the middle of a fundraiser, as always.
[03:11.510 --> 03:13.370]  We want to thank the people who called in last week.
[03:14.110 --> 03:15.190]  We got rid of...
[03:15.190 --> 03:16.070]  Well, I don't want to say it like that.
[03:16.110 --> 03:18.890]  It sounds like we're trying to dispose of them.
[03:18.890 --> 03:24.510]  We had pledges for all of the digital digest that we were giving away last week.
[03:24.770 --> 03:25.190]  Sold out?
[03:25.370 --> 03:27.030]  That's a thousand bucks for the station right there.
[03:27.150 --> 03:27.770]  A hundred bucks each.
[03:28.170 --> 03:28.930]  So, wow.
[03:29.190 --> 03:30.370]  Thank you for everybody who called in.
[03:31.050 --> 03:39.750]  And we do have some additional consultations, legal consultations, with the Blackstone Law Groups.
[03:39.750 --> 03:42.950]  Some people were fretting that they missed out two weeks ago.
[03:43.190 --> 03:50.650]  And unfortunately, Alex isn't here tonight to encourage you to call in and show the world what a great lawyer he is.
[03:50.650 --> 03:58.070]  And how these three hours of consultation with him and his law group could change your life for the better.
[03:58.690 --> 04:00.330]  So, you'll have to take our word for it.
[04:00.630 --> 04:03.830]  And give a call to 516-620-3602.
[04:03.950 --> 04:04.590]  Pledge $300.
[04:04.870 --> 04:07.010]  Get three hours of legal time.
[04:07.310 --> 04:10.310]  And that is a fraction of what it would cost normally.
[04:10.550 --> 04:15.190]  You can go to any lawyer, even lousy lawyers, and they will charge a lot more than that.
[04:15.190 --> 04:20.990]  And the good lawyers, like these ones, they will also charge more than this because they're good.
[04:21.170 --> 04:22.510]  So, this is a donation.
[04:22.750 --> 04:26.250]  This is something that is for the radio station.
[04:26.510 --> 04:30.470]  And a few pledges for $300 will definitely help this place out.
[04:30.570 --> 04:32.550]  516-620-3602.
[04:32.670 --> 04:34.070]  So, please give a call for that.
[04:34.830 --> 04:42.710]  Yeah, and their specialty is what we would call like technology or security law, I believe.
[04:43.210 --> 04:43.710]  InfoSec.
[04:43.710 --> 04:44.590]  Yeah, there you go.
[04:44.710 --> 04:46.810]  Like, InfoSec would be the area of expertise.
[04:46.810 --> 04:48.290]  Just to let people know.
[04:48.470 --> 05:00.090]  I'm sure they could refer you to some people maybe if you are getting divorced or married or your dog is getting some kind of new title for a vehicle or something.
[05:00.290 --> 05:00.450]  Yeah.
[05:00.530 --> 05:05.290]  Whatever the case, you know, that's not necessarily where they excel.
[05:05.430 --> 05:12.770]  Their expertise would be more in the realm of computers or some kind of like we have talked about domain issues and that kind of stuff.
[05:12.770 --> 05:15.970]  You joke about the dog issue, but I've done some work with them.
[05:16.090 --> 05:19.090]  And actually, one of the projects he's done is helping somebody get...
[05:19.090 --> 05:21.290]  You've done some work with dogs or with the legal firm?
[05:21.630 --> 05:21.810]  Both.
[05:21.970 --> 05:23.730]  I think he's talking about with Alex's firm, yeah.
[05:23.790 --> 05:23.890]  Yeah.
[05:24.030 --> 05:24.210]  Okay.
[05:24.210 --> 05:35.610]  But one of the projects he did was help somebody with a cat keep their tenant, their cat in the building, even though they weren't technically allowed, but they found a way to keep the cat.
[05:35.970 --> 05:37.430]  I'd like to know what that was.
[05:37.430 --> 05:40.730]  How do you keep a cat in an apartment where cats specifically are not allowed?
[05:40.810 --> 05:47.770]  Well, if you pledge right now to 516-620-3602, you can find out.
[05:47.770 --> 05:53.770]  So if you have a cat and that cat has legal problems, the cat obviously cannot call, but you can.
[05:53.990 --> 05:59.910]  And you can get three hours of consultation that will cover most cat situations as far as I know.
[06:00.010 --> 06:02.970]  And if the cat has infosec issues, we can talk about that too.
[06:03.110 --> 06:05.570]  Well, a lot of cats are on the internet, so I could see that happening.
[06:05.650 --> 06:06.570]  I was going to get to that, yeah.
[06:06.810 --> 06:19.870]  And that's how good Alex and his colleagues are, is that even things that are not so much their expertise, like Voltaire suggested, they can help out regardless.
[06:20.170 --> 06:24.170]  Well, I can almost guarantee that there will not be any more of these after tonight.
[06:24.430 --> 06:29.790]  So if you are in the slightest bit interested, definitely consider this.
[06:29.870 --> 06:30.830]  And it doesn't expire.
[06:31.030 --> 06:33.570]  You can use this years from now if you need to.
[06:33.710 --> 06:39.830]  You can just have it as, I don't want to say a get-out-of-jail-free card, but it could actually be that.
[06:40.530 --> 06:48.110]  But just give a call to the number, make the pledge, and you will be on file with Blackstone Law Group.
[06:48.250 --> 06:51.690]  And you can call upon Alex and his cohorts.
[06:52.090 --> 06:53.970]  That's not what you call lawyers, is it cohorts?
[06:54.110 --> 06:54.490]  Colleagues.
[06:54.590 --> 06:54.910]  Colleagues.
[06:54.990 --> 06:56.030]  That's what the word I was looking for.
[06:57.230 --> 07:00.950]  And your life will be helped in whatever way you choose.
[07:01.030 --> 07:02.770]  516-620-3602.
[07:02.770 --> 07:07.450]  And a reminder, these are tax-deductible donations.
[07:08.230 --> 07:15.050]  And that means you can get a bit of a refund, because this is a tax-free organization.
[07:15.230 --> 07:19.030]  But also, really, any pledge level makes a huge difference.
[07:19.270 --> 07:27.950]  We're just offering this as a suggested donation level that will yield this thank-you gift.
[07:27.950 --> 07:38.070]  But at any level, we're more than happy to add you to our lists.
[07:38.670 --> 07:42.470]  And I think the WBI Buddy program is still going on.
[07:42.590 --> 07:43.890]  That's a monthly system.
[07:44.290 --> 07:48.270]  You can find out more about that at wbai.org.
[07:49.210 --> 07:55.690]  And lastly, you could donate by text to 41444.
[07:56.010 --> 08:00.690]  Just send WBAI, and a link will be sent to you.
[08:00.790 --> 08:06.890]  And that will send you to the website where you can donate any level.
[08:07.070 --> 08:13.410]  $5, $10, $40, $99.5, whatever rate.
[08:14.550 --> 08:21.450]  This is just a suggestion and a thank-you gift that we've put together for all of our listeners of Off the Hook.
[08:22.090 --> 08:25.510]  But certainly, any donation level is a huge deal.
[08:25.770 --> 08:31.970]  And there are other items, like T-shirts and other thank-you gifts, I think, that are available.
[08:32.490 --> 08:33.290]  Verizon sucks.
[08:33.990 --> 08:34.490]  I'm sorry.
[08:34.770 --> 08:35.530]  Did I say that?
[08:35.670 --> 08:36.370]  What did you say?
[08:36.390 --> 08:37.670]  I just said Verizon sucks.
[08:38.110 --> 08:39.270]  I don't know why I said it.
[08:39.290 --> 08:40.310]  I just feel like saying it.
[08:40.310 --> 08:43.450]  I feel like I should have the freedom to say, boy, Verizon sucks.
[08:43.450 --> 08:43.930]  They're terrible.
[08:44.010 --> 08:44.390]  They're awful.
[08:44.450 --> 08:45.730]  They're the worst phone company in the world.
[08:46.330 --> 08:47.470]  Well, I would shush you.
[08:47.570 --> 08:53.970]  I mean, I would, you know, suggest that that is, you know, putting our ability to broadcast in jeopardy.
[08:54.230 --> 08:54.630]  But...
[08:54.630 --> 08:55.570]  Awful, awful people.
[08:55.750 --> 08:56.530]  Do not use Verizon.
[08:56.530 --> 08:57.130]  They're terrible.
[08:57.350 --> 08:59.090]  Your life will become miserable if you use Verizon.
[08:59.310 --> 09:09.350]  I just remembered this is a community radio station where we don't have to do what Verizon likes and does what they suggest we say.
[09:09.350 --> 09:10.610]  That really isn't relevant.
[09:10.810 --> 09:11.730]  It's up to...
[09:11.730 --> 09:15.490]  Well, imagine if we were in a position where we pissed Verizon off.
[09:15.650 --> 09:15.970]  Yeah.
[09:15.970 --> 09:16.630]  We don't care.
[09:16.930 --> 09:19.110]  We can piss off any corporation.
[09:19.270 --> 09:21.510]  And the reason we can do that is because we are not beholden to them.
[09:21.970 --> 09:23.550]  You know, they don't give us money.
[09:23.710 --> 09:25.690]  They don't give us anything.
[09:26.390 --> 09:28.630]  Well, they don't even give us phone lines anymore, do they?
[09:28.650 --> 09:29.410]  They disconnected them.
[09:29.570 --> 09:30.250]  We're not sending them...
[09:30.250 --> 09:32.090]  So, yeah, they really do suck.
[09:32.290 --> 09:34.030]  We don't send them thank you gifts.
[09:34.110 --> 09:34.830]  No, we don't.
[09:34.830 --> 09:37.050]  We send our listeners, our listeners who pledge.
[09:37.290 --> 09:38.490]  So, be a part of that.
[09:38.750 --> 09:49.710]  And absolutely, this show will continue to air and stream and be available to you to listen to now and in the future.
[09:49.710 --> 09:51.850]  We also archive and all of that.
[09:51.990 --> 09:54.490]  So, it's really important that we get some calls tonight.
[09:55.410 --> 09:57.830]  We just have a couple people here.
[09:57.830 --> 10:06.770]  We've got volunteers at the other end of this 516-620-3602 pledge number.
[10:08.390 --> 10:09.350]  And we're waiting.
[10:09.470 --> 10:13.070]  We really, really, really hope that you can give at any level tonight.
[10:13.190 --> 10:16.230]  Well, just to clarify, we're not waiting because we can't see the phones anymore.
[10:16.370 --> 10:17.310]  We used to be able to see the phones.
[10:17.390 --> 10:18.050]  We used to be down the hall.
[10:18.050 --> 10:20.350]  But we assume that phone calls are coming in.
[10:20.450 --> 10:22.930]  And we find out hours from now, phone calls did come in.
[10:22.990 --> 10:26.310]  So, for all we know, there's a thousand phone calls coming in right now.
[10:26.690 --> 10:32.430]  Yeah, but we're waiting to hear back the result of this big push that our listeners...
[10:32.430 --> 10:39.230]  I know we can count on our listeners for, again, at any level, including this package that we're offering.
[10:39.350 --> 10:41.650]  And this is what allows us to say Verizon sucks.
[10:41.690 --> 10:44.910]  And we've said things like this over the years, over the decades.
[10:45.470 --> 10:46.990]  We stand up for individuals.
[10:46.990 --> 10:51.070]  We stand up against various corporations and powerful entities.
[10:52.030 --> 10:54.310]  Sometimes just for the sake of being able to do it.
[10:54.470 --> 10:56.150]  I mean, maybe I don't have an issue with Verizon.
[10:56.270 --> 10:58.350]  Maybe I just feel I should be able to say Verizon sucks.
[10:58.530 --> 10:59.850]  But you know what I do have an issue with?
[10:59.950 --> 11:00.350]  Microsoft.
[11:00.350 --> 11:03.570]  I want to say Microsoft sucks because, wow, Microsoft really does suck.
[11:03.830 --> 11:04.730]  Have you heard about this story?
[11:04.870 --> 11:05.910]  Well, we all have heard about it.
[11:05.970 --> 11:06.590]  We've been talking about it.
[11:06.670 --> 11:08.030]  The Eric Lundgren story.
[11:08.570 --> 11:11.250]  This is a guy that refurbishes computers.
[11:11.710 --> 11:17.030]  And he's been refurbishing and recycling electronics for a number of years.
[11:17.030 --> 11:19.350]  He's done all kinds of awesome things.
[11:20.450 --> 11:25.270]  He basically has done things that help the environment.
[11:26.050 --> 11:30.010]  One of the things he's been doing, though, is electronic hybrid recycling.
[11:31.450 --> 11:34.610]  Turning discarded cell phones, other electronics into functional devices.
[11:35.350 --> 11:39.450]  Slowing the stream of harmful chemicals and metals into landfills and the environment.
[11:39.990 --> 11:41.810]  His company is based in California.
[11:41.810 --> 11:45.950]  They process more than 41 million pounds of e-waste each year.
[11:46.770 --> 11:49.970]  And IBM, Motorola, Sprint are among his clients.
[11:49.970 --> 12:07.730]  And what he was doing, basically, was refurbishing old computers and providing disks that basically are able to, how do I say it, get an operating system installed.
[12:07.950 --> 12:09.010]  You've done this, Kyle.
[12:09.010 --> 12:18.030]  They're kind of like a boot disk or what's called a startup disk or basically a form of media that's fixed and sort of read-only.
[12:18.210 --> 12:28.930]  And you can boot from it and then do some of the low-level maintenance tasks that allow you to set up the machine for whatever operating system you're going to install.
[12:28.930 --> 12:35.050]  It allows you to build up the system if it's maybe something that needs to recover.
[12:35.190 --> 12:38.310]  You're trying to recover from an accident or something that has happened.
[12:38.330 --> 12:46.390]  I don't want to get too much into this, but computers have the, what is it, serial number on the computer itself for the OS?
[12:46.390 --> 12:47.170]  Is that how it works?
[12:47.170 --> 12:59.550]  Yeah, often the product ID number is on a label with like a sort of some kind of foil or a genuine product label.
[12:59.730 --> 13:06.410]  So you know you're getting a machine that's got this software guaranteed and it's built in.
[13:06.530 --> 13:13.030]  So you can download software for free or you can use a restore disk.
[13:13.290 --> 13:14.450]  And this is what he did.
[13:14.450 --> 13:19.930]  He made restore disks available to people that wanted to get old restored computers.
[13:20.890 --> 13:25.730]  And these restore disks were part of the package and he would sell those.
[13:26.230 --> 13:34.110]  Now these disks are routinely provided to buyers of new computers to allow them to reinstall their operating systems if the computer's hardware fails or has to be wiped clean.
[13:34.830 --> 13:38.870]  But they're often lost by the time used computers find their way to a refurbisher.
[13:38.990 --> 13:41.830]  So you wind up with a computer that you can't do anything with.
[13:41.830 --> 13:49.130]  You've bought a computer and the person who originally bought that computer had a copy of Windows on it.
[13:49.130 --> 13:59.990]  But because they no longer own the computer and they don't have the restore disk, the computer becomes fairly useless.
[14:00.330 --> 14:00.490]  Yeah.
[14:00.610 --> 14:01.950]  And it's the structure of it.
[14:02.250 --> 14:04.950]  This media that does get lost.
[14:04.950 --> 14:07.430]  It's something that you're told to hang on to.
[14:07.430 --> 14:17.430]  But obviously an OEM machine, maybe from a Dell or an HP manufacturer like that, it may transfer through several people.
[14:17.430 --> 14:23.290]  They may not include all of the box or instructions and items that come with that machine.
[14:23.410 --> 14:25.650]  So it can get lost in the fray.
[14:25.810 --> 14:35.850]  And then someone has to be educated enough to then go and seek it out through the software manufacturer's website, make sure that it actually works with the system, and so on and so forth.
[14:35.850 --> 14:44.370]  Well, this is, first of all, Eric Lundgren was basically looking into this whole methodology of restoring computers.
[14:44.550 --> 14:46.830]  He said, I started learning what planned obsolescence was.
[14:46.890 --> 14:51.870]  I realize companies make laptops that only lasted as long as the insurance would last.
[14:52.070 --> 14:52.910]  It infuriated me.
[14:53.010 --> 14:54.510]  It's not what a healthy society should have.
[14:55.290 --> 14:56.430]  I agree 100%.
[14:56.430 --> 15:10.270]  Now, he thought producing and selling restore disks to computer refurbishers, basically saving them the hassle of downloading the software and burning new disks, which can get very tedious, that would encourage more users to restore their computers instead of discarding them.
[15:10.610 --> 15:15.210]  So in his view, the new owners were entitled to the software, and this just made it easier.
[15:15.450 --> 15:17.350]  And let's be clear here.
[15:17.350 --> 15:18.210]  What is happening?
[15:18.390 --> 15:21.210]  The restore disk does not have the OS on it.
[15:21.210 --> 15:23.850]  This is not a pirated operating system.
[15:23.990 --> 15:25.390]  This is simply a...
[15:25.390 --> 15:34.870]  It's basically turning the handle on the door so you can open it and show your credentials and get what you are entitled to.
[15:35.070 --> 15:36.530]  Makes it a little bit easier.
[15:36.710 --> 15:39.830]  Well, the government and Microsoft did not see it that way.
[15:39.950 --> 15:44.470]  Federal prosecutors in Florida obtained a 21-count indictment against him and his business partner.
[15:44.750 --> 15:50.910]  Microsoft filed a letter seeking get this $420,000 in restitution for lost sales.
[15:51.410 --> 15:53.670]  Now, Lundgren claims the assistant U.S.
[15:53.750 --> 15:58.550]  attorney on the case told him, Microsoft wants your head on a platter, and I'm going to give it to them.
[15:58.910 --> 16:00.810]  Wow, these people are so evil.
[16:01.510 --> 16:03.510]  That's like... that's some bloodlust there.
[16:03.770 --> 16:06.710]  Just like... just... just bloodthirsty, cutthroat.
[16:07.530 --> 16:11.490]  We need... we need a victim, like, to... to sacrifice to the...
[16:11.490 --> 16:14.450]  the altar of... of our... our shareholders.
[16:15.030 --> 16:15.810]  Well, get this.
[16:15.950 --> 16:17.350]  The judge, senior U.S.
[16:17.670 --> 16:26.910]  District Judge Daniel Hurley, basically said that none of the discs that Lundgren made were ever actually sold.
[16:27.370 --> 16:31.490]  And for that reason, he didn't order him to pay restitution.
[16:32.330 --> 16:43.430]  However, however, he did impose a 15-month prison sentence, which was less than half what was called for by federal sentencing guidelines, which indicate 36 to 47 months.
[16:44.430 --> 16:45.210]  That's unbelievable.
[16:45.410 --> 16:46.630]  And listen to what the judge said here.
[16:46.730 --> 16:52.410]  The judge said, this case is especially difficult because of who you are today and in terms of who you have become.
[16:53.230 --> 16:54.170]  Now, what does that mean?
[16:54.190 --> 16:57.510]  He's basically talking about the quality of who this person is.
[16:57.510 --> 17:12.430]  He received evidence of his recycling company, his projects to clean up e-waste in Ghana and China, a 2016 initiative in which Lundgren's company repaired and donated more than 14,000 cell phones and $100,000 to cell phones for soldiers to benefit U.S.
[17:12.490 --> 17:13.530]  soldiers deployed overseas.
[17:14.350 --> 17:25.530]  Now, he grew up in Linden, Washington, where, as a 16-year-old, he became the town's computer recycler after the local sheriff's department heard about his talent for fixing or reusing computer parts.
[17:25.530 --> 17:29.850]  Some parts of a computer, for example, the Apple touchscreen are proprietary, cannot be recycled.
[17:30.070 --> 17:36.970]  But 95% of a computer, such as the battery or the motor or the circuits, are generic and can be reused or repurposed.
[17:37.110 --> 17:48.110]  And he's devoted a lot of time to basically recovering discarded batteries, whether they're from cars or computers, and reusing them in wheelchairs, electronics, and various vehicles.
[17:48.490 --> 17:49.850]  Real scum of the earth, this guy.
[17:50.250 --> 18:00.310]  So that's why he got sentenced to 15 months because Microsoft insisted that something be done about what he was involved in.
[18:00.430 --> 18:03.530]  And the judge had absolutely no understanding of the technology in the first place.
[18:03.550 --> 18:05.210]  This guy didn't pirate anything.
[18:05.350 --> 18:08.650]  He's simply trying to make it easier for people to reuse computers.
[18:08.850 --> 18:12.190]  And this, this is our justice system right now.
[18:12.410 --> 18:13.390]  How insane is that?
[18:14.070 --> 18:14.670]  Totally insane.
[18:14.670 --> 18:20.390]  They're trying to make money from nothing, basically.
[18:20.390 --> 18:22.870]  This, this is something that is hosted online.
[18:22.870 --> 18:24.510]  So, okay, he's putting it on media.
[18:24.690 --> 18:35.830]  It's merely a copy, but by virtue of it being publicly accessible online, it's, you know, that's itself infinite copies that could be created from individuals physically doing that.
[18:35.970 --> 18:55.690]  But the, the company has made this calculation that they wouldn't, you know, they're not going to support the older OSs or software that people are installing anyway, but they've made the calculation that it's more profitable for them to go after him and discourage this kind of behavior such that people who might be consumers of newer products,
[18:55.990 --> 19:11.210]  even if there's a slight potential, which is entirely, you know, it's likely in some cases, but not that likely, these people maybe couldn't afford or wouldn't be in the market for an entire system, but something that's refurbished could serve them.
[19:11.290 --> 19:15.590]  And, and that's the real tragedy here is that people need this stuff to, to live.
[19:15.590 --> 19:20.690]  And it is a good, um, a good idea to breathe new life into this old hardware.
[19:20.870 --> 19:21.250]  Voltaire.
[19:21.550 --> 19:21.770]  Yeah.
[19:22.030 --> 19:24.350]  All these, it really shows the hypocrisy of these companies.
[19:24.610 --> 19:28.890]  They spend tons of money on PR, uh, saying how, how friendly they are towards the environment.
[19:29.130 --> 19:32.110]  And at the same time, they're like doing this type of prosecution.
[19:32.250 --> 19:37.250]  And also they're, um, they're lobbying governments to, um, to stop right to repair laws.
[19:37.970 --> 19:38.410]  Absolutely.
[19:38.590 --> 19:38.670]  Yeah.
[19:38.910 --> 19:48.050]  And the thing is, you know, I, I argue that this guy is, is doing Microsoft a service by getting their product out there, uh, when it just would be thrown away ordinarily.
[19:48.270 --> 19:51.310]  He made the claim Microsoft does not sell restore CDs.
[19:51.630 --> 19:52.050]  That's true.
[19:52.130 --> 19:54.530]  They sell licenses that enable their software to work.
[19:54.670 --> 19:56.130]  They've already sold those licenses.
[19:56.350 --> 19:58.830]  Those licenses were, were bought and paid for.
[19:59.290 --> 19:59.830]  All right.
[19:59.890 --> 20:04.970]  So what he is doing is simply ensuring that the license is transferred with a machine.
[20:05.470 --> 20:07.390]  It's not, it's not that hard to understand.
[20:07.610 --> 20:10.550]  Now here's what, what might make it a little bit easier to understand.
[20:10.710 --> 20:19.050]  In 2013, federal authorities intercepted shipments of 28,000 restore discs that Lundgren had manufactured in China and sent to a sales partner in Florida.
[20:19.170 --> 20:25.130]  The discs had labels nearly identical to the discs provided by Dell for its computers and had the Windows and Dell logos.
[20:25.850 --> 20:31.550]  And what, uh, what Lundgren says is if I had just written Eric's restore disc on there, it would have been fine.
[20:31.690 --> 20:36.970]  That's probably what this is all about is that they just saw their, their logo on it and assumed that it's, it's piracy.
[20:37.030 --> 20:39.830]  But you know, there's plenty of time to realize that's not the case.
[20:39.830 --> 20:41.870]  Okay, you put somebody's logo on there.
[20:42.430 --> 20:47.150]  Uh, you know, people do that to us all the time and we just say, okay, don't do that and they don't.
[20:47.270 --> 20:47.710]  They stop.
[20:47.930 --> 20:50.370]  And, uh, a simple thing like that.
[20:50.510 --> 20:52.870]  But he wasn't misrepresenting himself in any way.
[20:53.090 --> 21:01.830]  Just, um, using what seems like a logical thing to use if you're, if you're providing an operating, or providing a key to an operating system.
[21:01.870 --> 21:02.610]  Actually, not even that.
[21:02.610 --> 21:03.290]  I'm getting it wrong.
[21:03.650 --> 21:08.350]  Providing a restore disk that allows you to enter a key so you can get your operating system.
[21:09.190 --> 21:10.470]  It's, it's madness.
[21:10.710 --> 21:13.630]  This is the kind of justice that, that we face on a daily basis.
[21:14.190 --> 21:17.550]  And, um, unfortunately, this guy is getting his story out.
[21:17.650 --> 21:19.810]  He's still facing 15 months in prison.
[21:20.310 --> 21:23.950]  I mean, somebody who's helping the environment doing all these positive things.
[21:24.110 --> 21:38.550]  Imagine, you know, if this guy wasn't so, so amazing, if he wasn't doing all these good things, the kind of, uh, of, of penalties that would be imposed upon him, uh, the, the support network he would not be getting as a result of all the positive things he's done.
[21:38.950 --> 21:40.130]  This is typical.
[21:40.290 --> 21:42.190]  This is why we say Microsoft sucks.
[21:42.270 --> 21:43.710]  This is why we say Verizon sucks.
[21:43.810 --> 21:47.790]  This is why we say so many corporations suck because this is what they do.
[21:47.870 --> 21:49.670]  And our justice system sucks as well.
[21:49.790 --> 21:51.370]  And we need to speak out about that.
[21:51.450 --> 21:53.850]  In fact, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna stop with just words.
[21:53.870 --> 21:55.750]  We have two computers here that have Microsoft on them.
[21:55.950 --> 21:57.950]  I'm de-installing these operating systems right now.
[21:58.030 --> 21:58.730]  You guys talked for a while.
[21:58.890 --> 22:01.050]  We're just gonna uninstall the operating system right now.
[22:01.230 --> 22:01.590]  Could you stop him?
[22:01.610 --> 22:03.710]  No, I'm gonna go to something better like open source.
[22:03.930 --> 22:04.150]  Just throw us something.
[22:04.830 --> 22:06.370]  I'll get Linux installed by the end of the hour.
[22:06.390 --> 22:07.570]  Wrap the headphone cord around him.
[22:07.570 --> 22:08.650]  No, so what are you doing?
[22:09.030 --> 22:09.890]  You corporate shill?
[22:10.030 --> 22:12.330]  You're not gonna stand in and prevent me from doing...
[22:12.330 --> 22:13.270]  This is justice.
[22:14.130 --> 22:15.310]  Working machines in the...
[22:16.030 --> 22:16.390]  Okay.
[22:16.870 --> 22:18.950]  By the way, we'll be taking phone calls too a little bit later on.
[22:19.010 --> 22:25.610]  We can, uh, hear your opinions on the things we're discussing here at 347-335-0818 is our telephone number.
[22:25.610 --> 22:26.550]  We'd love to hear from you.
[22:27.790 --> 22:31.970]  I was just wondering if the compatibility could be argued.
[22:32.190 --> 22:39.990]  You know, he was making the disks with these logos to show, you know, this is compatible with these, um, uh, uh, machines.
[22:40.250 --> 22:57.870]  You know, this PC manufacturer and this software manufacturer, you know, depending how identical it may have looked, I could see maybe, uh, uh, some interpretation that, yeah, okay, this could be, um, seen as, uh, malicious, you know, it's, it's masquerading as something.
[22:57.990 --> 23:00.810]  Even though the software itself is identical, there's nothing in it.
[23:00.910 --> 23:08.770]  But by, by virtue of it being, uh, sort of, quote, knockoff of the original recovery disk instead of rebranded with his own stuff.
[23:08.770 --> 23:18.370]  but he could have had the logos on there with, you know, his, um, uh, you know, reinstall disk, whatever he wants to retitle it.
[23:18.510 --> 23:33.410]  But by merely putting the logos the manufacturers on, I mean, to me, that's just, uh, sort of him honoring or, um, showing that this stuff is made for, designed to work with and compatible with the hardware people would be using the disks for.
[23:33.410 --> 23:48.950]  It's the equivalent of, um, of somebody making a DVD and having the DVD logo on their DVD even though they didn't pay the DVD consortium, those jerks, uh, you know, a licensing fee to use their technology, uh, and, and getting sued for that.
[23:49.110 --> 23:50.470]  It's a simple misunderstanding.
[23:50.790 --> 23:51.530]  And you know what?
[23:51.570 --> 23:56.590]  If it really means that much to Microsoft, tell them to, okay, scrape that off, put new labels on, I'm sure he'll do it.
[23:56.970 --> 24:09.270]  But this, this is, there's just no excuse for this kind of treatment of somebody, somebody who does so much good, and, you know, until Microsoft makes this right, uh, I will, I will say nothing but bad things about Microsoft.
[24:09.270 --> 24:13.850]  And it, it doesn't matter if I even, uh, have use for anything that they provide.
[24:14.210 --> 24:15.630]  This is unexcusable.
[24:15.850 --> 24:27.050]  Yeah, if anything, they should be supporting the, the, uh, people that are creating little industries like this or as, as a repair, uh, a support service, um, in, in the aftermarket.
[24:27.390 --> 24:40.870]  You'd, you'd think they'd want to maybe, you know, kind of share some notes and, and actually, uh, see his business flourish and businesses like this flourish, especially because it's, it's going to some good, not just, not to mention the fact that it keeps some of their older stuff in the market.
[24:40.870 --> 24:42.150]  Imagine that if they worked with him.
[24:42.150 --> 24:44.410]  If they worked with him instead, wouldn't that be something?
[24:44.890 --> 24:45.110]  Wow.
[24:45.310 --> 24:45.470]  Walter.
[24:45.610 --> 24:55.730]  Well, it kind of shows how strong they are as a monopoly that they're, that like, they want to have, or rather than having more people like running Windows, they already know that people have to run Windows.
[24:55.990 --> 24:56.750]  No, they don't.
[24:56.810 --> 24:57.070]  They don't.
[24:57.090 --> 24:57.790]  They're not a monopoly.
[24:58.010 --> 25:04.890]  They can, uh, they can definitely be eclipsed by all kinds by open source operating systems.
[25:05.670 --> 25:08.890]  The market share hasn't decreased in ever.
[25:09.050 --> 25:10.230]  That can change.
[25:10.410 --> 25:10.510]  Yeah.
[25:10.650 --> 25:11.210]  That can change.
[25:11.290 --> 25:17.530]  Oh, I wanted to change, but I just think that they give in like the network effects and how all software is written for them.
[25:17.730 --> 25:23.030]  Well, imagine, imagine if it started to change now because people were outraged at this, at this treatment of someone else.
[25:23.290 --> 25:23.970]  I'm all for it.
[25:24.130 --> 25:24.310]  Yeah.
[25:24.510 --> 25:31.850]  Well, uh, if, if, um, if you were thinking of getting something from Microsoft and, and you're outraged because of this story, now think again.
[25:31.990 --> 25:35.030]  And, uh, the more people who do that, the more of an effect it'll have.
[25:35.190 --> 25:38.730]  And the next company will think twice before they, they, uh, pull this kind of crap.
[25:39.470 --> 25:39.910]  Yeah.
[25:40.070 --> 25:42.870]  And this has echoes of, uh, the OS wars a little bit.
[25:43.030 --> 25:50.050]  And, um, I don't know, the usability of, uh, Linux systems and, uh, different distributions.
[25:50.050 --> 25:51.610]  You didn't just say Linux, did you?
[25:52.050 --> 26:05.390]  Anyway, the alternative market has, has continued to, uh, thrive without, um, you know, in spite of Microsoft and we've seen that emergence and, uh, and acceptance and, and even, of course, in phones.
[26:05.470 --> 26:11.270]  I mean, I don't know of that many people with a Windows phone, um, you know, or that are proud to talk about it.
[26:11.630 --> 26:22.890]  But, uh, you know, they, they, they do have a place I think in enterprise and also in institutions, you know, um, governments and, uh, some school systems, although Apple's a lot more prevalent.
[26:23.410 --> 26:26.570]  But, um, you know, I, I think you're right a little bit there, Voltaire.
[26:26.670 --> 26:44.170]  They, they, they wield a lot of, um, I think, in this case, like, they, setting precedents and, um, bringing these kinds of frivolous things that, again, are very cold and, um, and I think a thin, thin technical argument in this case.
[26:44.330 --> 26:45.270]  I mean, it's so silly.
[26:45.370 --> 26:46.810]  Why, why even waste their time?
[26:47.390 --> 26:52.450]  Um, again, it's, the PR is probably the worst, the worst than any gain they'd have.
[26:52.510 --> 26:53.690]  I think I know it probably happened.
[26:53.870 --> 27:09.510]  Probably, uh, a shipment arrived, somebody opened it, saw all these, uh, discs with Microsoft on them and just assumed they were pirated and then when they realized what was actually going on they'd gotten too deep into it that they wanted to save face and continue prosecuting and in this day and age you can actually prosecute a,
[27:09.510 --> 27:13.710]  a phantom case like this and get somewhere and that's what happened.
[27:13.830 --> 27:17.590]  That's what an individual faces when met with the might of, uh, the U.S.
[27:17.850 --> 27:20.490]  Justice Department and, uh, a huge corporation like Microsoft.
[27:21.350 --> 27:32.370]  Um, yeah, but you know what, public reaction also is pretty damn big and I think people are learning that when the public gets a hold of something and is impassioned about it, things can change.
[27:33.250 --> 27:36.750]  We're, um, taking calls tonight, um, maybe a little bit later.
[27:36.970 --> 27:37.490]  No, take calls now.
[27:37.570 --> 27:37.870]  Why not?
[27:38.090 --> 27:38.230]  Okay.
[27:38.310 --> 27:47.190]  Um, before you call the station and get on our show, please call our pledge line at 516-620-3602.
[27:47.190 --> 27:52.490]  You can also donate to us online at give2wbai.org.
[27:52.670 --> 27:56.050]  We also, um, accept donations via SMS.
[27:56.410 --> 28:10.010]  Um, if you text WBAI, our call sign, to the short code number 41444 and a link will be sent to you uh, that directs you to our donation, uh, online donation forms.
[28:10.670 --> 28:11.310]  Very cool.
[28:11.470 --> 28:11.890]  Very cool.
[28:12.190 --> 28:19.210]  Um, and, um, you can, um, pledge the $300 for the Blackstone Law Group um, a three-hour consultation.
[28:19.470 --> 28:20.770]  You can pledge any amount, though.
[28:21.010 --> 28:23.650]  Uh, and there's all kinds of other things that are available as well.
[28:23.650 --> 28:31.210]  You can ask the, uh, person on the tally line after you call what's available and, uh, you know, what can I get for this kind of pledge and you'll get all the information you need.
[28:31.410 --> 28:33.830]  Again, that number 516-620-3602.
[28:33.930 --> 28:35.110]  That is what keeps us on the air.
[28:35.250 --> 28:37.230]  That is what keeps us talking about these things.
[28:37.470 --> 28:39.710]  You haven't heard about this in the mainstream media, you have you.
[28:39.850 --> 28:40.430]  You know why?
[28:40.550 --> 28:42.490]  Because Microsoft buys time on those stations.
[28:42.910 --> 28:46.710]  And, like I said before, with Verizon, you don't want to piss them off.
[28:46.790 --> 28:49.990]  You don't want to say that certain companies are doing bad things.
[28:50.010 --> 28:52.070]  You, you gloss over those news reports.
[28:52.330 --> 28:57.090]  Uh, here at WBAI, you're the only people that, that, uh, are our sponsors.
[28:57.430 --> 28:59.170]  You're the only people that give us money.
[28:59.690 --> 29:03.370]  And, um, that is why you're essential to the entire equation.
[29:03.370 --> 29:05.890]  And that's why we try to serve you with information like this.
[29:06.250 --> 29:08.090]  516-620-3602.
[29:08.210 --> 29:11.010]  Now, um, we also want to take phone calls from our listeners.
[29:11.330 --> 29:14.810]  So, if you're out there, uh, again, we only have one phone line working at the moment.
[29:15.090 --> 29:19.030]  Uh, so one person getting in at one time will be the only person.
[29:19.170 --> 29:23.370]  3-4-7, sorry, 3-4-7-3-3-3-5-0-8-1-8.
[29:23.550 --> 29:25.350]  We describe it as first come, first serve.
[29:26.470 --> 29:29.770]  That is the, that is the telephone system here at WBAI.
[29:29.930 --> 29:31.730]  It's a first come, first serve system.
[29:31.950 --> 29:33.650]  And, uh, we'll be happy to speak with you.
[29:33.830 --> 29:38.690]  You can also write to the show, O-T-H at 2600.com.
[29:39.170 --> 29:44.530]  or at Hacker Radio Show on, um, the Twitter social media platform.
[29:45.050 --> 29:45.630]  That's right.
[29:45.730 --> 29:46.490]  Are we watching that now?
[29:46.650 --> 29:50.530]  Yes, we can see your feedback in live, so tweet us, Hacker Radio Show.
[29:50.770 --> 29:51.710]  Are people saying anything?
[29:52.170 --> 29:54.290]  Um, they're asking when help tickets will be available.
[29:54.510 --> 29:55.470]  Help tickets are available now?
[29:55.470 --> 29:56.150]  What are you talking about?
[29:56.570 --> 29:56.990]  Okay.
[29:57.050 --> 29:58.090]  Are you looking at months ago?
[29:58.450 --> 30:00.790]  Oh, that's, that's your answer, Gonzo.
[30:01.110 --> 30:01.570]  All right.
[30:03.130 --> 30:03.330]  great.
[30:03.570 --> 30:15.310]  We're also, uh, uh, able to, um, to communicate, um, we hear about it eventually, but we know that there are people monitoring irc.2600.net.
[30:15.590 --> 30:15.810]  Wow.
[30:16.070 --> 30:16.270]  Okay.
[30:16.330 --> 30:24.070]  There's all kinds of people poised and ready to spring into action, but, uh, either the phone isn't working or, or, or the message hasn't gotten out yet or someone is very shy.
[30:24.290 --> 30:25.950]  347-335-0818.
[30:26.150 --> 30:28.170]  We do want to hear from, from our listeners.
[30:28.290 --> 30:29.490]  Let's make sure that phone is plugged in.
[30:29.530 --> 30:33.190]  It was unplugged for a week and we didn't realize it, uh, a while ago.
[30:33.750 --> 30:35.790]  Um, I think, okay, that light's on.
[30:35.930 --> 30:37.730]  So, um, hopefully a phone call will come in.
[30:37.890 --> 30:38.230]  You know what?
[30:38.330 --> 30:39.490]  Okay, this will make a phone call come in.
[30:39.510 --> 30:43.710]  If I start reading a listener letter, uh, I'll have to stop in the middle to take a phone call.
[30:43.810 --> 30:44.430]  That always works.
[30:44.530 --> 30:45.470]  Yeah, that, no, that's good.
[30:45.950 --> 30:48.010]  Start really slowly and, yeah.
[30:48.790 --> 30:49.670]  Okay, here we go.
[30:50.410 --> 30:51.930]  Um, deer off the hook.
[30:52.070 --> 30:59.250]  Uh, while, while listening to your, uh, show last week, um, I heard your discussion of the new security and customs processes when entering U.S.
[30:59.370 --> 31:00.410]  airports from abroad.
[31:00.630 --> 31:07.390]  Uh, you mentioned that currently Americans use a kiosk which takes their picture to fill out a questionnaire with a receipt being generated that's given to border officials.
[31:07.850 --> 31:17.610]  Uh, you raise the potential privacy concerns of having to submit fingerprints and other biometric data, uh, while entering and leaving the United States given the system are already set up to collect this information in the future.
[31:18.070 --> 31:23.030]  I thought I'd point out that many Americans and Canadians already submit biometric data when entering the United States.
[31:23.030 --> 31:31.730]  If you're a member of the Global Entry Frequent Traveler Program, uh, you go up to a kiosk where you insert your passport, answer a couple of questions, submit fingerprints from your right hand.
[31:32.110 --> 31:35.910]  Uh, the benefit of the program is that it, uh, greatly speeds up entry into the U.S.
[31:36.030 --> 31:39.890]  and through customs, along with giving you TSA pre-check at airports.
[31:40.030 --> 31:43.150]  You know, I, I saw those and nobody was using them.
[31:43.430 --> 31:44.410]  Nobody was using them at all.
[31:44.410 --> 31:52.490]  And, uh, you know, I, I just wonder, why is it that you're trusted to remain a good person if you sign up for that?
[31:52.790 --> 32:06.790]  You know, basically, you're somebody who, um, is pre-approved, um, but you could still smuggle something in or do something against the rules, but they're simply assuming that because they, they have your picture and your fingerprints that you're gonna be okay.
[32:07.630 --> 32:13.550]  Well, I think the logic is that they would only approve people that would be quote-unquote trustworthy, but obviously their metrics are very questionable.
[32:14.410 --> 32:14.670]  Yeah.
[32:15.110 --> 32:15.850]  Well, and unknown.
[32:16.250 --> 32:16.370]  Yeah.
[32:16.910 --> 32:22.430]  If you have any crimes in your past, uh, you are not approved because you're considered bad forever.
[32:22.710 --> 32:24.330]  Yeah, we, we don't know the criteria.
[32:24.450 --> 32:29.650]  I mean, we might have kind of a rough idea, but it's, it's really kind of, uh, mysterious.
[32:30.150 --> 32:37.610]  You know, it's, um, you know, you're a business traveler or you're, you fit some archetype that they, they deem is, um, you know, not a threat.
[32:37.850 --> 32:42.830]  Yeah, Bruce Schneier describes the whole TSA situation as security theater, and I think that really it's the heart of it.
[32:43.030 --> 32:48.530]  One thing that I fear was missed in your discussion of these systems is the balance between privacy and security.
[32:48.970 --> 32:51.870]  Uh, on the one hand, we didn't, we didn't have that balance.
[32:51.950 --> 33:00.430]  Okay, on the one hand, the collection of, uh, this biometric data for one thing poses the real risk of identity theft, particularly if the collected data is not being stored securely.
[33:00.550 --> 33:01.390]  Well, that's definitely true.
[33:01.630 --> 33:08.310]  Uh, visions of old James Bond films, the villain spoofing such systems with captured biometric data is a potential risk.
[33:08.310 --> 33:08.350]  risk.
[33:09.110 --> 33:12.810]  And, um, one also has to consider the security aspect of not collecting this information.
[33:12.910 --> 33:20.530]  Passports getting lost and stolen are a real risk to national security, particularly if the person using the stolen credentials looks close enough to the person in the passport.
[33:21.270 --> 33:27.070]  Um, so, uh, yeah, a recent study found customs agents missed one in seven fake ID checks.
[33:27.190 --> 33:29.290]  So that's, that's a bit disturbing right there.
[33:30.190 --> 33:34.910]  Um, there was, uh, all kinds of other, uh, other points raised.
[33:35.050 --> 33:40.830]  But yeah, you know, I'm glad people got something out of that story because I, I think that was really, uh, kind of interesting.
[33:41.470 --> 33:43.750]  Um, James, thank you for, uh, for writing.
[33:43.910 --> 33:46.990]  I, he also said, I thought I'd just chime in and hope that the U.S.
[33:47.070 --> 33:50.610]  doesn't impose a formal exit process, uh, for leaving the U.S.
[33:50.610 --> 33:51.710]  on an international flight.
[33:51.950 --> 34:03.810]  This is one of the frustrations I have traveling internationally, having to clear immigration slash customs when leaving a country as it can easily add an additional 15 to 30 minutes to the whole process, um, in this day and age of advanced passenger information,
[34:04.010 --> 34:11.050]  known as APIs, uh, we really shouldn't need to report our whereabouts to authority since that's already being communicated to them.
[34:11.150 --> 34:12.650]  You know, we shouldn't have to do it anyway.
[34:12.830 --> 34:18.290]  We shouldn't have to be always, um, um, you know, our, our whereabouts always known.
[34:18.290 --> 34:28.030]  Yeah, I think what he means by the, uh, advanced passenger information is the process when you're ordering or purchasing your ticket where you submit your passport number.
[34:28.270 --> 34:31.250]  Uh, I think that's the, the related system there.
[34:31.390 --> 34:32.870]  So, and, and it's a good point.
[34:33.030 --> 34:36.530]  Uh, we already have that, um, to a degree.
[34:36.710 --> 34:42.850]  One, one thing he noted also is the, the global entry system I think is, um, is underutilized in this country.
[34:42.990 --> 34:46.970]  I haven't seen, you know, I don't sit at the borders and, and monitor these things.
[34:47.130 --> 35:00.430]  I'm sure a, a border agent would have a better idea, but, uh, it seemed to be a lot more prevalent or, um, and I don't know if the process is different in Europe, but it seemed, uh, to be, uh, I guess something more people took advantage of.
[35:00.510 --> 35:03.710]  I know, uh, you've experimented with that a little bit.
[35:04.050 --> 35:13.290]  Um, but yeah, they, they've got this enormous amount of infrastructure for these, um, automated gates and scanning gates and, and all of this stuff.
[35:13.450 --> 35:27.570]  But, uh, I think the uptake, if, if you actually looked into it, would, would probably be surprising that, that not so many people are going through the additional steps of submitting to this background and, and the other, um, uh, parts and, uh, bits in this,
[35:27.570 --> 35:34.370]  um, type of, I guess it's a, a security, um, approval that you get as a global entry.
[35:34.670 --> 35:39.710]  Well, I'm sorry, because when I read that story, I was so intent on, on reading that letter that I didn't look at the phone.
[35:39.850 --> 35:44.710]  So if somebody was calling during that, that period, uh, then, uh, I'm sorry, I missed it.
[35:44.850 --> 35:50.130]  Uh, so please call back 347-335-0818 is our telephone number.
[35:50.250 --> 35:50.930]  We want to hear from our listeners.
[35:51.470 --> 35:54.930]  Um, and, uh, this is your opportunity to, uh, say whatever is on your mind.
[35:55.050 --> 35:56.870]  Okay, there, it's, it's, it's, it's lighting up now.
[35:57.550 --> 36:00.010]  Um, hang on, I haven't done this in such a long time.
[36:00.090 --> 36:01.090]  I have to remember which button to hit.
[36:02.570 --> 36:04.770]  And, good evening, you're on BAI.
[36:04.870 --> 36:05.150]  Go ahead.
[36:05.850 --> 36:08.550]  Okay, smart TVs and spyware.
[36:08.970 --> 36:12.970]  I know the Samsung F-Series had a lot of spyware in it.
[36:13.590 --> 36:17.150]  Um, other TVs, smart TVs had it too.
[36:17.670 --> 36:24.890]  I had, uh, a few years ago I had to set up a Sony TV for a friend of mine and it insisted that I create a Google account.
[36:25.090 --> 36:28.330]  The actual TV said powered by Google.
[36:28.530 --> 36:36.830]  So it forced me to create a Google account for the woman and I told her, listen, just return it and exchange it for something else.
[36:36.990 --> 36:38.310]  She didn't want to do that.
[36:38.430 --> 36:44.690]  Now, some years later now, another woman called me asking about a 75-inch Samsung TV.
[36:44.690 --> 36:46.890]  I told her about the possible spyware.
[36:47.110 --> 36:48.650]  She didn't even know about it.
[36:48.790 --> 37:00.290]  So what do you guys, do you guys have a list of which TVs have spyware, which TVs have to be connected to the internet, and which TVs you can get around that?
[37:01.170 --> 37:04.550]  They all have spyware, but you don't have to connect them all to the internet.
[37:06.630 --> 37:07.970]  I'm pretty sure that...
[37:07.970 --> 37:09.190]  Which are which?
[37:09.550 --> 37:12.530]  I'm pretty sure that any of them will work without an internet connection.
[37:13.210 --> 37:13.610]  Yeah.
[37:14.010 --> 37:14.130]  Yeah.
[37:14.450 --> 37:16.930]  But if you want to use any of the smart features that they're going to spy on you.
[37:17.290 --> 37:21.950]  Try searching smart TV and wiki, so you can get a list maybe through Wikipedia.
[37:22.030 --> 37:27.850]  Maybe they've got a page where someone has organized a grid of every TV and it talks about the features.
[37:27.850 --> 37:35.010]  You want to make sure you're also aware what protocols this TV may support or may not support.
[37:35.250 --> 37:47.030]  That is, do you plug in an Ethernet RJ45 jack, or is it using other protocols through maybe wireless like a Bluetooth or obviously Wi-Fi?
[37:47.030 --> 37:51.810]  If you're associating it over wireless, there's a number of issues with that.
[37:52.490 --> 37:52.890]  Right.
[37:53.130 --> 38:03.250]  This requires a lot of technical know-how, but if you if you're interested in using the smart features but without the spyware, you can set up something called a piehole.
[38:03.370 --> 38:13.810]  Just Google for a piehole Raspberry Pi and it'll basically block the ports that are the IP addresses that are associated with advertising services.
[38:13.950 --> 38:15.810]  But you need a PI for that.
[38:15.950 --> 38:17.890]  You need a Raspberry PI for that.
[38:18.270 --> 38:18.830]  Yeah.
[38:19.090 --> 38:30.490]  It's, I think, an easier way to implement what you might be doing with network design, basically structuring your IPs to keep things from talking to one another.
[38:30.490 --> 38:39.290]  That's a little bit more complex as far as your average home user trying to just set up and watch a TV program.
[38:40.790 --> 38:54.690]  But something that is a concern and something that everyone's able to do when they do design their network, it's just very common that people are just setting up one or two devices and they want to get on with their lives.
[38:54.870 --> 39:04.950]  They don't want to set it up and be very deliberate about what devices are sort of sectioned off and on different subnets and that kind of stuff.
[39:05.370 --> 39:05.510]  Right.
[39:05.650 --> 39:05.930]  Okay.
[39:06.030 --> 39:06.890]  One more question.
[39:07.150 --> 39:18.330]  If you can connect the TV without going through the router, whether it's wireless or with a Cat5 cable, can the spyware work through the coaxial?
[39:19.370 --> 39:20.510]  That's a good question.
[39:20.510 --> 39:22.290]  question, I would say no.
[39:22.930 --> 39:23.370]  Okay.
[39:23.730 --> 39:24.930]  We're not sure of that.
[39:25.350 --> 39:42.230]  Well, you know, if it's, if you're getting, say you're getting like digital TV and you have that digital antenna and it is then converting into like a RF or regular coax cable, that's going to be picking up stuff from the air.
[39:42.350 --> 39:52.590]  It's not necessarily, it's not ostensibly transmitting anything necessarily like telemetry data as far as we know, it's not designed to do that.
[39:53.010 --> 40:11.970]  If you were, say, served cable over coax in your home and you're then connecting that coax to say a cable box, I would also say, no, it's an output of the cable box.
[40:11.970 --> 40:30.510]  I'm not saying it's not technically possible, like in that configuration, perhaps if the protocols and the cable box software had been compromised in some way, there may be a possibility because the output of that cable box, but yeah, it's output, so I don't know.
[40:30.650 --> 40:44.450]  The design of it I do not think would support any kind of telemetry from the smart TV going to the cable box, but I don't know of anyone who's really tested that or any papers on it, but it would be interesting to...
[40:44.450 --> 40:45.530]  So when are you going to test it?
[40:47.050 --> 40:48.750]  Sounds like you're the person to test it.
[40:48.850 --> 40:49.830]  You've got the ideas here.
[40:49.870 --> 40:50.110]  No, no, no.
[40:50.170 --> 40:50.910]  These are good ideas.
[40:52.230 --> 41:06.030]  No, it's, you know, a lot of this stuff is new and a lot of it, you know, we don't totally understand how it works and it would be good if people out there played around with it, you know, put it in, make a little Faraday cage, do whatever you have to do,
[41:07.390 --> 41:15.470]  maybe try to get a cable box to do this, but it's why we write about it, it's why we talk about it here on Off the Hook.
[41:15.590 --> 41:30.310]  What I've learned is that if something is theoretically possible, if you think in your mind that this could be used to spy on me, then it is possible, it's just maybe somebody hasn't developed it yet, so people like you will come up with the what-if scenarios are very important because,
[41:30.550 --> 41:43.370]  well, somebody is going to hear that and say, yeah, you know what, I could do that, but then someone else will say, yeah, this is going to be done to us, here's how to protect yourself, so we're kind of in the infancy of that because we have all the cool gizmos that are coming out,
[41:43.510 --> 42:00.530]  they're really convenient and awesome, but there is a price to pay, apart from the price you pay for the product, you're paying with your personal info, your privacy information, and you should never let go of that concern, it's hugely important, and I want to thank you for bringing this to a lot of people's attention.
[42:01.330 --> 42:03.150]  Okay, very good, take care.
[42:03.270 --> 42:03.990]  All right, have a good night.
[42:04.210 --> 42:05.050]  Okay, bye.
[42:05.330 --> 42:09.230]  And our phone line is open again, 347-335-081.
[42:09.370 --> 42:25.810]  And, you know, if you have one of those Samsung TVs, just as one example, there are settings, there are settings where you can turn these particular things off, you can disagree with their policies for viewing information services, voice recognition services,
[42:26.430 --> 42:29.550]  nuance voice recognition, privacy notices, all that.
[42:30.050 --> 42:37.010]  If your TV offers gesture control, facial recognition, authenticate your account, you can turn that off in the Samsung account settings menu.
[42:37.190 --> 42:45.450]  But, you know what, even after all that, there was something called a weeping angel that was revealed back last year, about a year ago, actually.
[42:45.930 --> 42:50.830]  And that was designed by the CIA to put Samsung TVs into a fake off mode.
[42:51.610 --> 42:52.570]  So, yeah.
[42:52.890 --> 42:57.590]  So, basically, you would think it was off, and it wasn't, and it was spying on you.
[42:57.730 --> 43:05.390]  So, this is no longer something that, you know, are wild hypotheses about, this is reality, this is what's going on.
[43:05.390 --> 43:09.330]  And technology is being used both in good ways and in evil ways.
[43:09.370 --> 43:11.390]  And that's something that's always been happening.
[43:11.930 --> 43:13.450]  Yeah, know the specifications.
[43:13.450 --> 43:16.030]  Know what kind of features your devices have.
[43:16.150 --> 43:16.730]  And it would be great.
[43:16.730 --> 43:24.750]  It would be great if somebody compiled a list of smart TVs and maybe vulnerabilities or hacks of them that have been documented.
[43:24.970 --> 43:31.150]  Well, if somebody comes with a list like that, we would certainly print it in the magazine, and we'd spread information about it far and wide.
[43:31.330 --> 43:33.550]  So, yes, please do that.
[43:33.750 --> 43:37.570]  Okay, our phone line is open, 347-335-0818.
[43:37.930 --> 43:47.170]  I guess people are so unused to us opening up the phone lines that they don't believe it's true, they think we're on tape, or they just assume they won't get through.
[43:47.330 --> 43:48.950]  They can't hear us over their air conditioners?
[43:49.050 --> 43:49.710]  Maybe, maybe.
[43:50.370 --> 43:51.830]  347-335-0818.
[43:51.990 --> 43:52.670]  We want to hear from you.
[43:53.050 --> 43:57.150]  And, you know, when we had 12 lines, just saying that, they'd all light up.
[43:57.250 --> 43:59.970]  And now we only have one, and we can barely get that one to light up.
[44:03.390 --> 44:05.350]  I'm not asking you to call and pledge to that line.
[44:05.530 --> 44:06.290]  That's not the...
[44:06.290 --> 44:07.870]  Yeah, okay, this person's calling in now.
[44:08.030 --> 44:11.990]  The pledge line, if you want to call and pledge, 516-620-3602.
[44:12.110 --> 44:15.250]  But this is the on-air line, and you are on the air.
[44:15.330 --> 44:15.630]  Go ahead.
[44:17.050 --> 44:17.750]  Speak up, please.
[44:17.830 --> 44:18.090]  Go ahead.
[44:18.830 --> 44:19.190]  Yes.
[44:19.850 --> 44:20.510]  Hey, guys.
[44:20.610 --> 44:21.070]  How are you doing?
[44:21.090 --> 44:22.630]  It's Bob from Islet.
[44:23.050 --> 44:23.670]  Hi, Bob.
[44:23.950 --> 44:24.230]  Hi.
[44:24.230 --> 44:34.630]  Hey, the previous caller with the smart TV, a VPN might be a good solution to add to that mix as well.
[44:36.050 --> 44:36.830]  Right, yeah.
[44:36.990 --> 44:44.690]  I was going to mention when E was listing off features or things you can turn off with a Samsung, location stuff, too.
[44:44.950 --> 44:55.170]  And a VPN, I think, would be a good help with that specifically, but also just a general anonymizing feature.
[44:55.530 --> 44:56.390]  Okay, there you go.
[44:56.770 --> 44:57.790]  Knock your headphones right off your head.
[44:57.930 --> 45:06.070]  Yeah, my equipment is malfunctioning, but yeah, you would benefit by using a VPN for that part of your network.
[45:06.070 --> 45:16.190]  An ideal scenario, if you had a spare computer, would be to have an internet connection cabled from the router into a PC and then share that connection.
[45:16.370 --> 45:29.770]  The PC runs a VPN and then share that with the TV, the smart monitor, and then you can also watch movies on the monitor as well from your PC, and then you get the VPN on top.
[45:29.910 --> 45:40.830]  Yeah, you have the added benefit, which is becoming, you know, we've noticed functionally with all the distribution platforms and, you know, trying to watch various things you've maybe subscribed to or paid for already in different locations.
[45:41.010 --> 45:41.710]  No, that's absolutely right.
[45:41.710 --> 45:56.590]  And it opens up a world of programming because you're able to get things that would be only allowed, say, if you were in a remote location, that the VPN allows you to represent yourself as.
[45:56.750 --> 46:10.810]  I think a VPN is solving the wrong problem here because with smart TVs, you're worried about your data getting sent to Samsung, not so much that your ISP is looking at what data is being sent to Samsung, whereas a VPN would only help with a letter case.
[46:11.990 --> 46:12.690]  Right, right.
[46:12.970 --> 46:17.070]  The VPN would at least, if there was, the spyware is going to be there.
[46:17.130 --> 46:18.690]  I don't see there's any way to block it.
[46:19.410 --> 46:23.990]  And in fact, I don't even trust the cable boxes these days, that everything's being monitored.
[46:24.250 --> 46:28.590]  But at least they think you're in, you know, New Jersey or Europe somewhere.
[46:28.690 --> 46:35.490]  Yeah, assuming you've disabled all the other stuff that might be leaking various information about your usage habits.
[46:36.170 --> 46:38.670]  Assuming you take as many of those precautions as possible.
[46:38.850 --> 46:43.150]  Yeah, and assuming there's no GPS in the smart monorail, I can't imagine what it would be.
[46:43.350 --> 46:47.570]  Right, that was the thing I mentioned about location, but it could help.
[46:47.710 --> 46:50.970]  But yeah, you're right, Voltaire, it's not necessarily a panacea.
[46:51.090 --> 46:59.610]  You're going to want to look at a lot of the features, a lot of the work that's been done, make sure your software is up to date in the firmware side.
[46:59.890 --> 47:02.230]  All of those considerations are really important.
[47:02.510 --> 47:16.230]  Yeah, it strikes me though, hearing this conversation, hearing all the ways that our privacy can be revealed, you know, GPS or your ISP or all kinds of hardware identification numbers and the various...
[47:16.230 --> 47:21.150]  You hear law enforcement saying, oh, we can't crack encryption so we can't catch criminals.
[47:21.390 --> 47:26.070]  My God, there are so many more ways to track people now than there have ever been.
[47:26.290 --> 47:35.170]  It should be incredibly simple to know where everybody is at all times unless they really have a handle on things and know what to look for.
[47:35.170 --> 47:39.850]  And even then, you know, there might be that one thing that slips through that gives away your location.
[47:39.850 --> 47:42.890]  So you can never really be completely private.
[47:43.110 --> 47:46.230]  It's a horrible scenario, but it seems to be our reality.
[47:46.790 --> 47:55.170]  And, you know, it's funny you should say that because I usually stay away from a smartphone just because there's just no way to secure them.
[47:55.570 --> 47:57.470]  But my friend's been busting my chops.
[47:57.670 --> 48:01.610]  Got a really good one for like just 20 bucks off a track phone, believe it or not.
[48:02.030 --> 48:12.070]  And, of course, I'm running Signal, you know, Moxie Marlin Spikes free application and then also ProtonMail from the guys over at CERN, the scientists.
[48:12.470 --> 48:12.810]  Right, right.
[48:12.990 --> 48:13.310]  Yes.
[48:13.590 --> 48:16.450]  And those are good end-to-end encrypted apps.
[48:16.710 --> 48:18.850]  But the phone still reveals my...
[48:18.850 --> 48:20.850]  And I'm running a VPN on the phone as well.
[48:21.430 --> 48:26.090]  But the phone still reveals my actual location because of the darn GPS, you know?
[48:26.690 --> 48:31.590]  Yeah, unless you're disabling that and, you know, using other software to...
[48:31.590 --> 48:36.770]  But then you disable it and all of a sudden everything else is crippled and you get punished, basically.
[48:37.050 --> 48:40.970]  Yeah, your usability just tanks as far as, you know, practically speaking.
[48:41.210 --> 48:45.350]  There's one part of me that really wants to play with all the toys, you know, and get the most out of them.
[48:45.370 --> 48:48.530]  And there's another that is screaming at my first self saying, what are you doing?
[48:48.530 --> 48:50.390]  You're giving away all this information.
[48:51.670 --> 48:55.830]  And I think the best way to approach it is just to simply confuse it as much as possible.
[48:56.030 --> 48:58.190]  I am happy when my phone thinks I'm in Connecticut.
[48:58.350 --> 49:06.590]  Sometimes it does for some reason or when it just gets wrong information or when I use a different identity and say something.
[49:06.850 --> 49:13.450]  I've had conversations between identities just to confuse law enforcement when they, you know, are looking at transcripts.
[49:13.490 --> 49:14.630]  You say things that aren't true.
[49:14.810 --> 49:22.110]  You lie to people on the phone that don't know you and your profile, your credit report, everything is inaccurate.
[49:22.110 --> 49:26.930]  Now, that might hurt you in some ways, but it's also a way of striking back.
[49:28.150 --> 49:28.190]  Yeah.
[49:29.890 --> 49:39.270]  Well, it's like, but if you remember that movie, Legends of the Fall, where the dad goes, screw the government, screw the government.
[49:40.210 --> 49:40.610]  Yeah.
[49:41.890 --> 49:42.790]  I hear you.
[49:42.890 --> 49:49.010]  I mean, I'll use end-to-end encryption just because I can, you know, so I encourage all my friends to do it.
[49:49.050 --> 49:50.470]  They look at me like I got two heads.
[49:50.630 --> 49:53.450]  Well, it needs to be made a lot simpler.
[49:53.670 --> 49:54.970]  Now, you know, Tor Browser is great.
[49:55.130 --> 49:59.950]  That's a good way to, you know, not reveal everything that you're doing to your ISP.
[50:00.850 --> 50:03.290]  But there are all kinds of other methods as well.
[50:03.350 --> 50:03.590]  Voltaire?
[50:03.710 --> 50:03.810]  Yeah.
[50:03.890 --> 50:09.650]  If you're using a $20 track phone, though, it's probably running like an outdated version of Android and doesn't get Android security updates.
[50:10.050 --> 50:26.410]  The problem, like, if you're really concerned about security, and I hate to say this as like a free software advocate, but the best phone for you is iOS and maybe like a Google Pixel device, but those are a lot more expensive because those are the only Android ones that would get regular security updates.
[50:26.590 --> 50:27.230]  But not Microsoft.
[50:27.390 --> 50:28.010]  Never Microsoft.
[50:28.210 --> 50:28.930]  Microsoft sucks.
[50:29.110 --> 50:29.830]  Boycott Microsoft.
[50:30.070 --> 50:30.370]  I'm sorry.
[50:30.430 --> 50:31.810]  They're not even bothering the phones anymore.
[50:32.050 --> 50:32.790]  Well, that's true.
[50:32.910 --> 50:33.810]  And why do you think that is?
[50:33.810 --> 50:35.250]  I stick strictly Windows 7.
[50:35.370 --> 50:36.850]  I won't go Windows 10, you know?
[50:37.610 --> 50:38.010]  Yeah.
[50:38.230 --> 50:42.630]  Well, that's another conversation, I think, entirely.
[50:42.930 --> 50:46.650]  One thing, another idea is just try to mix some of the older and newer stuff.
[50:46.770 --> 50:50.710]  You know, you don't necessarily have to have a smart TV connected to your smart cable box.
[50:50.710 --> 51:00.770]  You know, the resolutions may not be as good, but there's all kinds of ways you can maybe mix and match things that aren't necessarily supposed to go together.
[51:01.130 --> 51:08.030]  Get converters, get all kinds of, you know, maybe a projector is a better form of watching video for you.
[51:08.270 --> 51:17.530]  There's lots of ways to be imaginative and use creative solutions to still get to do the things you want.
[51:17.530 --> 51:36.370]  Maybe it's a little bit low-res or, like, not as convenient, but at the end of the day, it's you affecting and able in the most available way to do the things you want to do and as you wish.
[51:36.510 --> 51:42.790]  And if you really think that you're being monitored, say the most outrageous thing you can possibly imagine and see who responds and then let us know.
[51:43.530 --> 51:46.130]  Well, you know what's interesting about the monitors, though?
[51:46.130 --> 51:50.570]  You can get a 32-inch TV monitor, smart monitor, for $110.
[51:51.490 --> 51:53.990]  I mean, they're so inexpensive now, you know?
[51:54.550 --> 51:54.970]  Yeah, definitely.
[51:54.970 --> 51:55.790]  That's a nice monitor.
[51:55.910 --> 51:59.710]  I mean, it's just amazing how cheap the prices are these days.
[51:59.730 --> 52:01.350]  But anyway, I'll let you guys go.
[52:01.470 --> 52:02.450]  Thanks for taking my call.
[52:02.570 --> 52:03.110]  Thank you for calling.
[52:03.450 --> 52:03.830]  All right.
[52:04.130 --> 52:04.770]  Have a good night.
[52:04.890 --> 52:05.190]  Take care.
[52:05.370 --> 52:20.290]  Just to add, the computer monitors themselves can be as big and as or more resolution, I'm sorry, pixels per inch, the quality can be better than the TV and it wouldn't necessarily have an entire smart interface.
[52:20.510 --> 52:20.770]  Look at this.
[52:20.910 --> 52:22.450]  The phone rings now without us giving out the phone number.
[52:22.530 --> 52:23.090]  That's what happens.
[52:23.350 --> 52:23.530]  You see?
[52:23.610 --> 52:24.330]  It kind of catches.
[52:24.430 --> 52:24.710]  Good evening.
[52:24.790 --> 52:25.390]  You're on off the hook.
[52:25.470 --> 52:25.730]  Go ahead.
[52:26.170 --> 52:26.370]  Yeah.
[52:26.510 --> 52:26.710]  Hi.
[52:26.810 --> 52:30.290]  I don't have a lot of time, so I got two quick things for you.
[52:30.450 --> 52:33.390]  And this is technology that I do know about.
[52:33.610 --> 52:33.870]  Okay.
[52:33.870 --> 52:45.790]  If your smart TV is connected through a cable box to your cable TV carrier, it is completely unsecure.
[52:46.130 --> 52:50.390]  That return path carries what channel you've selected.
[52:51.250 --> 52:53.650]  It carries pay-per-view information.
[52:54.190 --> 53:04.230]  And depending on how they have reflashed the ROM in your set-top box, it carries all of your browser history and what you looked at on YouTube.
[53:04.750 --> 53:05.290]  Okay.
[53:05.370 --> 53:08.050]  Let me go on to the second thing, which is much more important.
[53:08.230 --> 53:14.730]  And it clearly is something that, Eric, you and your guys are not familiar with.
[53:15.150 --> 53:26.030]  Go to Wikipedia and read the entry for, and it's three words, system management mode.
[53:26.590 --> 53:34.510]  Previously, you mentioned something about NSA and how they can make it look like you're not browsing and you are browsing or whatever.
[53:35.010 --> 53:43.310]  It's very easy to get into system management mode, which runs on any x86 since 1992.
[53:43.910 --> 53:52.470]  It runs below supervisor mode in the microcode, and it affects the hyperthreads and lets you completely control the machine.
[53:52.710 --> 53:56.690]  Just look at Wikipedia, system management mode.
[53:56.690 --> 54:00.370]  I think you'll be astounded because it's clear you guys don't know anything about it.
[54:00.870 --> 54:01.330]  Well, thank you.
[54:01.570 --> 54:04.770]  Thank you for letting us know what we don't know anything about.
[54:04.930 --> 54:07.390]  But yeah, you know, it's an alternative software system.
[54:07.570 --> 54:08.890]  Did you know it's also known as Ring 2?
[54:09.110 --> 54:09.570]  That's right.
[54:09.630 --> 54:10.510]  I'm at Wikipedia now.
[54:10.650 --> 54:11.390]  I'm reading all about it.
[54:11.550 --> 54:12.170]  It's interesting.
[54:12.430 --> 54:13.250]  Definitely interesting.
[54:13.490 --> 54:15.570]  And check it out for sure.
[54:15.750 --> 54:20.290]  Yes, system management mode is a huge issue, especially with Intel, and they've had recent flaws with that.
[54:20.870 --> 54:24.610]  And so even if you're running Linux, you're still running a proprietary operating system underneath that.
[54:24.750 --> 54:29.910]  But you mentioned that it's only for x86, and TVs don't really run x86-based processors.
[54:30.410 --> 54:32.190]  Well, let's see.
[54:32.270 --> 54:34.550]  It was first released with the Intel 386 SL.
[54:35.170 --> 54:43.130]  While initially special SL versions are required for SMM, Intel incorporated SMM in its mainline 486 and Pentium processors in 1993.
[54:43.530 --> 54:47.690]  AMD implemented Intel's SMM with the enhanced AM 486 processors in 1994.
[54:47.890 --> 54:51.790]  It is available on all later microprocessors in the x86 architecture.
[54:52.370 --> 54:53.370]  So not ARM.
[54:53.730 --> 54:55.670]  That's, yeah, that's the facts we have right now.
[54:55.850 --> 54:57.290]  Let's see if we can squeeze in one more phone call.
[54:57.370 --> 54:57.630]  Good evening.
[54:57.790 --> 54:58.290]  You're on off the hook.
[54:58.350 --> 54:58.550]  Go ahead.
[54:59.910 --> 55:00.270]  Quickly.
[55:00.530 --> 55:01.070]  Go ahead, quickly.
[55:01.790 --> 55:02.630]  Yes, good night.
[55:02.650 --> 55:04.830]  I have a small question for you.
[55:04.910 --> 55:07.790]  I have a smart TV with one rapid-earth antenna.
[55:08.070 --> 55:15.150]  I was trying to find out whether or not the cost of the antenna will improve how many channels I get.
[55:15.210 --> 55:18.030]  And if I hook up two antennas, will it be better than one?
[55:18.170 --> 55:19.590]  I'll take your answer off the air.
[55:19.650 --> 55:20.870]  Okay, thanks for that call.
[55:20.870 --> 55:32.010]  Basically, you're talking about using over-the-air digital TV, which is fascinating because there are all these channels that don't get carried on cable or satellite that you'll be able to pick up.
[55:32.130 --> 55:36.310]  But also, you'll have reception issues thanks to the technology involved.
[55:36.310 --> 55:39.670]  It's not like analog TV where something fades away.
[55:39.890 --> 55:41.730]  It's either there or it's not there.
[55:41.910 --> 55:47.330]  And especially in the city, you have trouble being able to pick up things and keep good signals.
[55:47.330 --> 55:53.210]  So it'll work if you have it high up where there's less chance of something bouncing off a building.
[55:53.350 --> 55:54.490]  That's assuming you're in the city.
[55:54.690 --> 56:02.070]  And if you're not in the city, you have to be fairly close within, I think, 20, 30 miles of the transmitter to be able to get a signal at all.
[56:02.690 --> 56:09.490]  But this is something I like to see a lot more study about because there are a lot of broadcasters out there that you may never hear of otherwise.
[56:09.970 --> 56:15.490]  And it is one completely free way to get television and not be spied upon.
[56:15.790 --> 56:19.990]  And one other thing, it's not as reliable as far as reception.
[56:20.130 --> 56:23.510]  It really does depend on the type of antenna and the location of it.
[56:23.610 --> 56:27.110]  But, you know, it doesn't necessarily have to be implemented this way.
[56:27.390 --> 56:28.970]  You know, it could be done better.
[56:30.410 --> 56:36.090]  It's, as he said, something that ought to be looked at and that we should understand a little bit better.
[56:36.250 --> 56:51.970]  We had many years of analog television, so this newer form of transmission should be looked at because not everybody gets to see it because when those digital signals don't get to your antenna, you really don't have a TV channel to watch.
[56:52.910 --> 56:54.290]  We are out of time.
[56:54.630 --> 56:58.510]  Again, the pledge line, 516-620-3602.
[56:58.650 --> 57:00.830]  Write to us, OTH at 2600.com.
[57:00.930 --> 57:01.090]  Good night.
[57:01.090 --> 57:03.450]  Ain't got no shoes.
[57:04.050 --> 57:05.450]  Ain't got no money.
[57:05.890 --> 57:07.510]  Ain't got no class.
[57:07.990 --> 57:09.470]  Ain't got no friends.
[57:09.930 --> 57:11.410]  Ain't got no schooling.
[57:11.930 --> 57:13.350]  Ain't got no work.
[57:13.750 --> 57:15.350]  Ain't got no job.
[57:15.910 --> 57:16.830]  Ain't got no
[57:24.620 --> 57:25.760]  mind alive anyway.
[57:27.360 --> 57:30.180]  Yeah, what have I got?
[57:31.440 --> 57:33.800]  Nobody can take away.
[57:35.480 --> 57:42.980]  I got my hair, got my head, got my brains, got my ears, got my eyes, got my nose, got my mouth.
[57:43.380 --> 57:45.080]  I got my smile.
[57:47.260 --> 57:54.860]  I got my tongue, got my chin, got my neck, got my booties, got my heart, got my soul, got my back.
[57:54.860 --> 57:58.340]  I've got my sex.
[58:06.740 --> 58:20.920]  I ain't got no father, ain't got no mother, ain't got no children, ain't got no faith, ain't got no earth, ain't got no water, ain't got no ticket, am
[58:31.520 --> 58:32.720]  I alive anyway?
[58:34.440 --> 58:36.700]  Yeah, what have I got?
[58:38.640 --> 58:40.580]  Nobody can take away
[58:45.700 --> 58:47.740]  and clap my ears, clap my eyes.
[58:50.090 --> 58:51.830]  I got my smile.
[58:54.460 --> 59:01.660]  I got my tongue, got my chin, got my neck, got my boobies, got my heart, got my soul, got my back.
[59:02.160 --> 59:03.680]  I got my sex.