[00:03.120 --> 00:12.600]  On Tuesday, March 13th, starting at 10 a.m., there will be a report to the listener from WBAI's General Manager, Berto Reimers.
[00:12.980 --> 00:25.220]  Once again, on Tuesday, March 13th, starting at 10 a.m., there will be a report to the listener from WBAI's General Manager, Berto Reimers.
[00:29.940 --> 00:30.920]  Okay, you heard it here.
[00:31.060 --> 00:32.060]  It's worth setting your alarm for.
[00:32.460 --> 00:33.480]  It's eight o'clock.
[00:33.760 --> 00:37.060]  You're tuned to WBAI in New York.
[00:38.180 --> 00:40.680]  And it's time once again for another edition of Off the Hook.
[02:25.130 --> 02:26.850]  And a very good evening to everybody.
[02:26.950 --> 02:28.850]  The program is Off the Hook.
[02:28.970 --> 02:30.490]  Emmanuel Goldstein here tonight.
[02:31.250 --> 02:32.970]  Joined by Alex.
[02:33.350 --> 02:33.870]  Good evening.
[02:34.150 --> 02:34.930]  And Kyle.
[02:35.230 --> 02:36.110]  Hey, what's happening?
[02:36.430 --> 02:38.950]  Nobody else could make it because of the inclement weather.
[02:39.750 --> 02:40.230]  Wow.
[02:41.410 --> 02:43.310]  All they had to do was get on a subway, too.
[02:43.310 --> 02:45.430]  That's what I cannot figure out.
[02:46.210 --> 02:48.010]  Kyle, I have to hand it to you.
[02:48.410 --> 02:49.990]  You've got to be the best driver in the world.
[02:49.990 --> 02:50.630]  You really do.
[02:50.650 --> 02:57.850]  Because you got us here from eastern Long Island in the worst weather I think I've ever seen as we're driving.
[02:57.890 --> 02:58.850]  And that includes Iceland.
[02:59.830 --> 03:01.330]  And I don't know how you did it.
[03:01.350 --> 03:02.530]  I blacked out for a while.
[03:02.550 --> 03:04.230]  But you got us here safely.
[03:04.390 --> 03:05.390]  Well, you got me here safely.
[03:05.410 --> 03:07.890]  Alex got here via the aforementioned subway.
[03:07.890 --> 03:08.690]  That is right.
[03:08.790 --> 03:10.090]  Which wasn't bad at all.
[03:10.170 --> 03:10.710]  Wasn't bad at all.
[03:10.750 --> 03:10.890]  No.
[03:11.070 --> 03:12.610]  Because everybody's afraid.
[03:12.790 --> 03:13.670]  Everybody's staying indoors.
[03:14.030 --> 03:14.470]  Don't be afraid.
[03:14.550 --> 03:16.950]  If you're in a city, you can go outside.
[03:17.210 --> 03:19.690]  And they have things for people to do in cities.
[03:19.850 --> 03:22.710]  There's no reason to, you know, seclude yourself.
[03:22.870 --> 03:23.270]  That is true.
[03:23.350 --> 03:25.070]  There are things for people to do in cities.
[03:25.230 --> 03:25.890]  Don't drive.
[03:26.130 --> 03:27.110]  We're not saying to drive.
[03:27.170 --> 03:34.110]  What we did, because this is considered one of those vital services, like, you know, we're like first responder types because we're on the radio.
[03:34.530 --> 03:36.170]  I think it's the same thing, but I'm not sure.
[03:36.850 --> 03:39.510]  And, you know, we're commanded to come in.
[03:39.570 --> 03:39.930]  And we do.
[03:39.950 --> 03:41.030]  We take it very seriously.
[03:41.070 --> 03:41.750]  And here we are.
[03:41.930 --> 03:47.390]  I think the scariest part of getting here was actually the walk from my office to my apartment.
[03:47.610 --> 03:48.330]  Yeah, I saw that guy.
[03:48.330 --> 03:49.070]  He was kind of shady.
[03:49.250 --> 03:50.230]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[03:50.310 --> 03:52.090]  It was, well, it's just very slushy.
[03:52.150 --> 03:52.690]  It's very slushy.
[03:52.770 --> 03:53.670]  It's very slippery.
[03:54.170 --> 03:55.230]  I had the dog with me.
[03:55.370 --> 03:56.210]  The dog was in the office.
[03:56.370 --> 03:57.290]  You brought the dog to the station?
[03:57.890 --> 03:59.350]  No, I wish I could have tonight.
[03:59.870 --> 04:00.550]  You should.
[04:01.510 --> 04:05.750]  You know, I really should have because I could have completely gotten away with taking Jimmy on the subway.
[04:05.750 --> 04:08.990]  I see no signs in this station about not having dogs in here.
[04:09.050 --> 04:09.530]  That is true.
[04:09.710 --> 04:11.190]  Yeah, so that means you can have dogs.
[04:11.190 --> 04:12.290]  That is absolutely true.
[04:12.390 --> 04:15.530]  It wouldn't be the first time that he barked during a radio interview as well.
[04:15.650 --> 04:16.170]  That's true.
[04:16.350 --> 04:17.850]  Yes, he's good at that.
[04:17.970 --> 04:22.050]  But, yeah, it was touch and go for a while.
[04:22.130 --> 04:23.110]  We didn't think we were going to make it.
[04:23.110 --> 04:24.850]  But we were out on Long Island.
[04:25.050 --> 04:27.390]  And Kyle, do you want to describe the scene a little bit?
[04:27.690 --> 04:31.510]  I was just going to ask if Alex's dog wears those little dog shoes.
[04:31.930 --> 04:33.070]  No, he doesn't.
[04:33.150 --> 04:33.890]  He probably should.
[04:34.210 --> 04:35.270]  Does he have snow galoshes?
[04:35.370 --> 04:36.250]  I hate to change this up.
[04:36.270 --> 04:38.330]  Yeah, Winston and Julia had those little galoshes.
[04:38.450 --> 04:40.790]  They really are a pain, those galoshes, to get on and off.
[04:40.790 --> 04:41.970]  We could spend an hour talking about it.
[04:42.010 --> 04:42.510]  But anyway...
[04:42.510 --> 04:42.910]  It's true.
[04:42.910 --> 04:53.170]  No, I did my best driving, but it's really different, especially when it hits suddenly and people aren't really prepared for it.
[04:53.330 --> 05:00.550]  And some choose to stay home, even when they're advised to stay home, or especially when they're advised, but not everyone.
[05:00.710 --> 05:02.410]  So it was busy out there.
[05:02.570 --> 05:04.250]  I wish more people had stayed home.
[05:04.370 --> 05:04.590]  Yeah.
[05:04.590 --> 05:06.990]  Because there were some real idiots on the road.
[05:06.990 --> 05:17.050]  It seemed like further east, they're caught in a little bit of, in between the traffic flow being one way or the other from rush hour, and the plows really hadn't made it out to a lot of those areas.
[05:17.170 --> 05:21.410]  So hopefully, out there in Suffolk County and...
[05:21.410 --> 05:22.290]  Nassau County as well.
[05:22.390 --> 05:25.050]  ...parts east, yeah, they're getting to it.
[05:25.150 --> 05:26.970]  And Westchester and New Jersey.
[05:27.170 --> 05:28.210]  A lot of stalled vehicles.
[05:28.270 --> 05:32.250]  If you're in a car right now and you're driving, here's what we advise you to do.
[05:33.130 --> 05:35.050]  First, try not to drive as much as possible.
[05:35.170 --> 05:36.790]  Try to get home or to a safe place.
[05:36.990 --> 05:41.950]  So, you know, spend an hour somewhere, and conditions should improve quite a bit in that hour.
[05:42.430 --> 05:47.190]  And if you are moving, don't move faster than you're comfortable with.
[05:47.330 --> 05:49.850]  Don't be afraid to go 20, 30 miles an hour if necessary.
[05:50.070 --> 05:52.730]  Yeah, I wouldn't go much faster than 40 if...
[05:52.730 --> 05:53.410]  I wouldn't do 40.
[05:53.410 --> 05:56.050]  If you can't see the lines, that's a good rule of thumb.
[05:56.210 --> 05:56.770]  Well, that's the thing.
[05:56.850 --> 06:02.110]  We were on the expressway, Long Island Expressway, which, as you know, has three lanes and an HOV lane.
[06:02.110 --> 06:04.530]  And we had six lanes today.
[06:04.850 --> 06:04.890]  There was like seven.
[06:05.150 --> 06:08.050]  Because there was basically anybody could interpret anything as a lane.
[06:08.270 --> 06:09.430]  Nobody could see the lines anymore.
[06:09.430 --> 06:12.490]  So, we just sort of made six lanes of traffic.
[06:12.650 --> 06:13.730]  Of course, none of it was moving.
[06:14.270 --> 06:16.710]  But it was still kind of nice to see how that sort of developed.
[06:17.210 --> 06:17.290]  Yeah.
[06:17.530 --> 06:32.330]  But once you get going, if you get going too fast and like, you know, faster than 40 or 50 and you're in a high gear, if you try to slow down, unless you're really good with traction control or four-wheel drive, you could start losing traction.
[06:32.330 --> 06:33.550]  So, it's really important.
[06:33.870 --> 06:39.890]  You might think you're going fine at a certain speed, but as soon as you tap the brakes or something, you realize how slippery it is.
[06:39.950 --> 06:41.250]  And it can really sneak up on you.
[06:41.250 --> 06:42.850]  That happened to me a couple times on the way.
[06:42.850 --> 06:44.910]  Yeah, we were in front of an 18-wheeler at one point.
[06:45.030 --> 06:46.070]  And we were fish-tailing.
[06:46.190 --> 06:46.870]  I wasn't...
[06:46.870 --> 06:48.690]  It was impossible to see behind us.
[06:48.770 --> 06:49.210]  There's just...
[06:49.210 --> 06:52.070]  If you're really out there driving, you know exactly what we're talking about.
[06:52.230 --> 06:54.830]  So, everyone, tap those brakes.
[06:55.450 --> 06:55.770]  Signal.
[06:55.990 --> 06:56.670]  Use your lights.
[06:57.130 --> 06:59.410]  Don't get out of your car if you're stopped.
[06:59.510 --> 07:01.210]  I saw a lot of people cleaning their windshields.
[07:01.230 --> 07:02.670]  And if you have to do that, pull off a rest stop.
[07:02.670 --> 07:11.550]  If you're listening to us right now on the radio, which obviously you are if you are hearing this, then don't let anything we say upset you to the point where you lose control of your car.
[07:11.650 --> 07:12.890]  That does happen sometimes.
[07:12.890 --> 07:17.310]  So, we have to make sure we point that out in this particular case because it's extremely hazardous.
[07:17.690 --> 07:27.470]  Yeah, I'm really kind of shocked here, actually, because you, Emmanuel, you're the kind of guy who likes to just go out in these sort of natural disaster-type situations.
[07:27.470 --> 07:27.730]  Every time.
[07:27.830 --> 07:28.350]  Every time.
[07:28.630 --> 07:29.870]  Hurricanes, you name it.
[07:29.990 --> 07:30.270]  Yes.
[07:30.570 --> 07:31.650]  You just love it.
[07:31.650 --> 07:37.410]  So, for you to say this was a sort of harrowing driving experience, you know, it must really be bad out there.
[07:37.450 --> 07:38.090]  Why was it a passenger?
[07:38.490 --> 07:38.850]  Ah.
[07:38.910 --> 07:40.330]  It's a lot scarier when you're the passenger.
[07:40.590 --> 07:41.410]  That's certainly true.
[07:41.450 --> 07:42.670]  I completely agree with that.
[07:42.710 --> 07:44.850]  That sense of helplessness when Kyle's behind the wheel.
[07:45.010 --> 07:45.450]  No problem.
[07:45.470 --> 07:46.950]  As he has when I'm behind the wheel.
[07:47.090 --> 07:48.110]  So, yeah, it's...
[07:48.770 --> 07:53.330]  But, you know, having just driven in Iceland, we know a thing or two about hazardous driving.
[07:54.070 --> 07:55.190]  But this is...
[07:55.190 --> 07:56.290]  This really...
[07:56.290 --> 07:57.250]  It was a run for the money.
[07:57.290 --> 08:01.510]  We've also driven enough together, I think, to understand how each of us drives.
[08:01.710 --> 08:03.050]  Both of us, I think, are good drivers.
[08:03.170 --> 08:04.910]  And both of us would probably say that about one another.
[08:06.570 --> 08:07.370]  And I'd...
[08:08.370 --> 08:13.490]  I'd probably scared myself more than E at least twice or three or four times.
[08:14.050 --> 08:16.490]  But it's that confidence and just...
[08:17.070 --> 08:17.470]  Yeah.
[08:17.770 --> 08:20.650]  Just reacting, responding, not being distracted.
[08:21.010 --> 08:27.670]  And just doing things as safely as you can without overcompensating.
[08:27.730 --> 08:31.230]  Can I also point out, you did not honk your horn once and nobody honked at you.
[08:31.530 --> 08:38.510]  And in this kind of weather, this kind of extreme, stressful situation, that says something not only about you, but about New York drivers in general.
[08:38.810 --> 08:41.730]  You know, we see a lot and we tolerate a lot.
[08:42.250 --> 08:44.010]  But I think also people are paying attention.
[08:44.170 --> 08:47.130]  So, I said there are some idiots on the road, but there are a lot of good drivers on the road too.
[08:47.370 --> 08:48.810]  People just please be careful.
[08:49.050 --> 08:49.350]  Yeah.
[08:49.390 --> 08:50.010]  And we love...
[08:50.010 --> 08:55.110]  We'd been following this and it just turned out that it started really right when we left.
[08:55.110 --> 08:58.910]  And we both kind of assessed it and said, well, it's time.
[08:59.050 --> 09:00.610]  You know, what else are we going to do?
[09:00.710 --> 09:02.770]  We've got to raise money for WBAI.
[09:02.770 --> 09:03.170]  That's right.
[09:03.430 --> 09:07.570]  And off the hook, it just wouldn't be the same if no one was there.
[09:07.870 --> 09:09.930]  Plus, everybody else said they couldn't make it too.
[09:09.930 --> 09:14.490]  So, we're the only idiots that we're going to get in a car and drive 60 miles to get here.
[09:15.130 --> 09:17.130]  So, that's the sense of commitment we have.
[09:17.210 --> 09:29.530]  Now, folks, if we have that kind of commitment that we will literally risk our lives to get here, is it so much to ask you to give a call to 516-620-3602 and pledge any amount because it all helps.
[09:29.650 --> 09:31.430]  We do have a couple of premiums.
[09:31.510 --> 09:33.410]  We have some leftover premiums.
[09:33.450 --> 09:39.090]  In fact, one of them is a consultation with Alex's Law Group, the legal consultation with Blackstone Law Group.
[09:39.090 --> 09:41.750]  Three hours of legal consultation.
[09:42.530 --> 09:44.790]  That's for a pledge of $300.
[09:45.230 --> 09:46.030]  Now, if you were...
[09:48.270 --> 09:48.890]  What's his name?
[09:49.050 --> 09:50.210]  David Dennison?
[09:51.350 --> 09:51.750]  Yeah.
[09:51.930 --> 09:52.410]  That's his name?
[09:52.770 --> 09:55.310]  If you were that guy, you're looking at me quizzically, Alex.
[09:55.310 --> 09:56.490]  And Peggy, what's her name?
[09:56.570 --> 09:56.730]  Yeah.
[09:56.970 --> 09:58.130]  You don't know these names, do you?
[09:58.270 --> 09:58.950]  I don't.
[09:59.030 --> 09:59.730]  You've been doing too much work.
[09:59.930 --> 10:00.570]  I am.
[10:01.030 --> 10:07.090]  That is the alleged pen name that Donald Trump used to sign the...
[10:07.090 --> 10:07.910]  In the filing.
[10:07.910 --> 10:08.910]  The disclosure agreement.
[10:09.690 --> 10:09.870]  Right.
[10:10.010 --> 10:10.670]  Which he didn't sign.
[10:10.830 --> 10:12.270]  The arbitration documents.
[10:12.270 --> 10:18.770]  And if you were that person, these three hours of legal consultation might just save your ass.
[10:19.010 --> 10:21.190]  In his case, I think he'd need more than three hours.
[10:21.350 --> 10:23.810]  But, you know, it would be...
[10:23.810 --> 10:27.010]  He could call now and pledge for this and he'd get a bargain.
[10:27.190 --> 10:27.750]  He really would.
[10:27.830 --> 10:31.950]  There's no doubt because our hourly rate is way higher than that.
[10:31.950 --> 10:34.150]  We normally charge around $500 an hour.
[10:34.310 --> 10:39.650]  So, it is really a good deal and that's the low end of the spectrum for our law firm.
[10:39.770 --> 10:40.670]  We have a lot of expertise.
[10:40.670 --> 10:42.750]  We deal a lot with technology-related law.
[10:42.950 --> 10:44.170]  We deal with blockchain issues.
[10:44.310 --> 10:45.130]  We deal with privacy.
[10:45.990 --> 10:49.650]  We deal a lot with online investigations, data breaches.
[10:50.450 --> 11:02.010]  One thing we've talked about, too, recently is we have developed in-house methodologies to detect threats to an organization from the outside in the domain name system.
[11:02.030 --> 11:05.770]  And that's something that we can talk about with any particular listener.
[11:06.010 --> 11:17.910]  We are, right now, this evening, actually, shocking a lot of people across the country with some of the findings that we've made with regard to cyber squatters and threats against organizations.
[11:18.110 --> 11:22.670]  So, that's something that we would be willing to do for a listener as well as part of a pledge.
[11:23.090 --> 11:26.010]  And you'd be surprised what you can get done in three hours.
[11:26.190 --> 11:37.070]  I mean, even if you're facing a sort of harrowing situation like you don't know if you need to engage in any kind of data breach notification because you know your systems have been breached, well, talk to us.
[11:37.210 --> 11:37.870]  We'll let you know.
[11:37.950 --> 11:41.630]  We'll let you know how onerous it's going to be or if it's not going to be onerous at all.
[11:41.730 --> 11:46.450]  And, you know, seeking the advice of counsel is always a good thing whenever you're in doubt.
[11:46.650 --> 11:53.130]  Now, let me just also point out that we also have the five-hour consultation with Stephen Rondam who was on last week.
[11:53.650 --> 11:54.890]  Private Eye Services.
[11:55.430 --> 11:58.670]  Steve is a very colorful character and he comes on the radio every now and then.
[11:58.830 --> 12:00.510]  We have all kinds of interesting back and forth.
[12:01.090 --> 12:03.270]  But he is the best private eye I know.
[12:03.410 --> 12:06.270]  And there's just no questioning that no matter where you come from politically.
[12:07.390 --> 12:15.630]  So, five hours of his work could really get you just about anything on any body or on yourself or whatever you need.
[12:16.210 --> 12:18.590]  It is definitely worth the $500 pledge.
[12:18.830 --> 12:19.230]  That is.
[12:20.030 --> 12:22.330]  516-620-3602.
[12:22.330 --> 12:27.950]  And if they are still available you can get these premiums at give2wbai.org.
[12:28.090 --> 12:30.210]  That's give, the number 2, wbai.org.
[12:30.590 --> 12:34.130]  The private eye services, five hours for a pledge of $500.
[12:34.610 --> 12:38.550]  Or the legal consultation with Blackstone Law Group, pledge of $300.
[12:38.870 --> 12:40.670]  Again, 516-620-3602.
[12:40.790 --> 12:42.630]  Alex, I just wanted to ask you something legally.
[12:42.850 --> 12:47.210]  We just made reference to the Trump restraining order.
[12:47.650 --> 12:48.990]  Now, is it...
[12:48.990 --> 12:53.470]  You can actually use fake names when you sign a restraining order as he apparently did?
[12:53.930 --> 12:55.510]  When you sign a...
[12:55.510 --> 12:58.750]  Was it a restraining order or was it a non-disclosure agreement?
[12:59.030 --> 13:00.930]  I guess it was a non-disclosure agreement.
[13:01.070 --> 13:02.250]  That's all kinds of things flying around.
[13:02.250 --> 13:02.470]  Right.
[13:02.630 --> 13:05.370]  Because a restraining order would be issued by a court, generally.
[13:05.670 --> 13:09.130]  It was a gag order that was part of the arbitration.
[13:09.450 --> 13:09.810]  Okay.
[13:10.030 --> 13:12.630]  So, yeah, I don't know.
[13:12.710 --> 13:14.130]  There's something involved with arbitration.
[13:14.230 --> 13:14.410]  I don't know.
[13:14.470 --> 13:15.470]  What does arbitration even mean?
[13:15.690 --> 13:21.010]  Well, arbitration is sort of a dispute resolution system that's outside of the legal system.
[13:21.190 --> 13:21.270]  Right.
[13:21.370 --> 13:23.430]  It's sort of a civil...
[13:23.430 --> 13:30.250]  Sorry, I'm talking, but a civil form of a conflict resolution outside of the legal...
[13:30.250 --> 13:31.030]  That's right.
[13:31.190 --> 13:31.550]  That's right.
[13:31.550 --> 13:35.330]  So, it's not publicly funded dispute resolution like the legal system itself.
[13:35.670 --> 13:37.030]  It's privately funded.
[13:37.290 --> 13:43.430]  And you go in front of a panel of arbitrators or a single arbitrator and you resolve your dispute that way.
[13:43.450 --> 13:45.350]  So, the NDA was a part of that, I believe.
[13:45.550 --> 13:46.610]  This is what I have.
[13:46.690 --> 13:54.730]  Actually, there's a whole big thing about another David Dennison who apparently is getting all the social media attention now because they think he's somehow related to this.
[13:55.130 --> 14:04.090]  But according to this, it's in the lawsuit that the adult actress claims that Trump never signed the hush agreement related to an alleged sexual relationship between the two more than a decade ago.
[14:04.530 --> 14:09.630]  Now, Trump's missing signature on the non-disclosure agreement makes it null and void the lawsuit contends.
[14:10.170 --> 14:20.170]  Now, Trump basically has denied any relationship with her and that is where he was reportedly referred to as David Dennison in that agreement that she signed but he did not.
[14:20.190 --> 14:22.210]  So, my question was can you really do that?
[14:22.310 --> 14:27.830]  You can put an alias, a name that nobody else knows you as, as part of a a non-disclosure agreement.
[14:28.050 --> 14:34.330]  Well, if it's understood between the parties that you're going to be signing in a certain way then I would say that that signature would probably suffice.
[14:34.790 --> 14:41.830]  It's a bit of a tricky legal issue but, that being said, agreements can be enforced even if there's no signature on them whatsoever.
[14:42.110 --> 14:46.410]  So, I would say A4T or I or which is...
[14:46.410 --> 14:46.630]  How dare you?
[14:46.630 --> 14:47.830]  Which is legal for...
[14:47.830 --> 14:48.450]  Them's fighting words.
[14:48.790 --> 14:49.430]  Exactly.
[14:50.030 --> 14:58.630]  Or, by necessary implication which is essentially what that means he could sign in some kind of pseudonym so long as it was understood by the parties.
[14:59.250 --> 15:11.350]  But, the trick here is that if a document like a contract or a non-disclosure agreement is unsigned the parties then have to act in conformity with the particular agreement as if it were signed.
[15:11.750 --> 15:30.610]  So, that would indicate that both parties understood that there was a meeting of the minds because in order to form a contract I know this goes back to my law school days I always remembered the four legal elements of a contract with this mnemonic device input-output air conditioning which stands for intent,
[15:30.830 --> 15:32.950]  offer, acceptance and consideration.
[15:33.390 --> 15:47.890]  So, providing that NDA had those four elements of a contract and they acted in conformity with it and consideration is a legal term of art as well that basically is a fancy way of saying the price you pay for a promise.
[15:48.170 --> 15:58.430]  So, there has to be something of value that's exchanged between the parties and if it was cash for silence and both parties acted in conformity with the NDA then arguably the NDA could be enforceable.
[15:58.950 --> 16:00.670]  But she was not paid was she?
[16:01.130 --> 16:01.690]  No, she was.
[16:02.270 --> 16:07.830]  His lawyer out of the goodness of his own heart gave her a check for what, $160,000 or something like that?
[16:08.070 --> 16:10.030]  Supposedly he was not repaid for that.
[16:10.190 --> 16:17.190]  I heard he was complaining It's just so incredibly shady and you just watch these people and you just cannot believe.
[16:17.410 --> 16:25.890]  Did you see on Monday that guy Sam Nunberg by the way all these people are in our inner circle that we printed in the spring issue of 2600.
[16:26.190 --> 16:33.970]  Every single one of them has a meltdown at some point or is involved in some scandal and you can basically zero in on all their info right there.
[16:34.510 --> 17:01.370]  It's just, it's incredible this circle of people that keeps taking over the headlines with the most bizarre unbelievable antics but this guy went on a virtual tour of TV shows and basically saying things like he is not going to honor a grand jury subpoena now Alex is a lawyer that's that's not really something you can do is it?
[17:01.530 --> 17:06.710]  Well you can do it you can you can refuse to honor a subpoena you can refuse compliance what happens what happens if you do that?
[17:06.850 --> 17:31.070]  Then you can be held in contempt and that means that you can be fined and you can be imprisoned and in this situation it would probably result in prison I think somebody would be confined for disobeying a subpoena from the special counsel in such an egregious manner especially when they have evidenced their intent to disobey the subpoena for really no good reason other than I'm too busy I have a
[17:31.070 --> 17:58.370]  couple other things to do you know I don't have time for this nonsense that's totally beyond the pale loony Now since this former Trump campaign aide is unlikely to come to you for legal advice can you share with us the legal advice you would give him if that were to happen for instance would you tell him that he has to surrender himself to the grand jury or he shouldn't go on TV or I don't know
[17:58.370 --> 18:02.690]  whatever else he was claiming over the entire day It was really... it was a whirlwind.
[18:02.810 --> 18:03.470]  It really was.
[18:03.590 --> 18:06.630]  It was hard to keep track of the craziness that was coming out of that guy's mouth.
[18:07.650 --> 18:11.110]  And to a certain extent, I feel really bad for him.
[18:11.130 --> 18:12.450]  No, I felt concerned.
[18:13.170 --> 18:13.490]  Exactly.
[18:13.810 --> 18:16.070]  And, you know, the man is a lawyer as well.
[18:16.150 --> 18:16.410]  Wow.
[18:16.650 --> 18:18.470]  So it's... I didn't know that.
[18:18.550 --> 18:19.130]  It's a lawyer.
[18:19.370 --> 18:19.490]  Wow.
[18:20.090 --> 18:20.950]  It's really shocking.
[18:20.950 --> 18:21.750]  So he knows better.
[18:22.290 --> 18:23.210]  Oh, absolutely.
[18:23.490 --> 18:25.770]  In fact, you know, we're going to have to look this up.
[18:25.830 --> 18:28.950]  We'll look this up, I guess, while we're on the air, while there's a break.
[18:28.950 --> 18:32.750]  But I think he might have actually even went to law school on Long Island at Toro.
[18:33.070 --> 18:34.150]  Yeah, that's true.
[18:34.310 --> 18:34.790]  It is true.
[18:34.990 --> 18:35.430]  Okay, yeah.
[18:35.830 --> 18:37.870]  So that's a... That's a blemish on Long Island, isn't it?
[18:37.990 --> 18:39.550]  Oh, there's... The school sounds familiar.
[18:39.790 --> 18:45.370]  One of the more notable issues with Toro Law School, I guess.
[18:45.530 --> 18:48.350]  But yeah, real blemish, I think, for them.
[18:48.370 --> 18:49.770]  And they probably don't want that out there.
[18:50.090 --> 18:54.970]  But in any event, my advice to this guy would be to absolutely keep your mouth shut.
[18:54.970 --> 18:59.810]  Do not go on the media and discuss your disobedience of a subpoena from the special counsel.
[19:00.010 --> 19:05.870]  I mean, that is just allowing them to prepare the paperwork for holding you in contempt.
[19:06.090 --> 19:12.630]  But okay, you've dealt with clients in the past who have done things or have not done things.
[19:12.970 --> 19:14.670]  Where do you think this guy is coming from?
[19:14.670 --> 19:18.330]  Why would he be acting like this, in your expert opinion?
[19:18.330 --> 19:22.570]  Well, it does seem to me like he may have some mental issues.
[19:22.770 --> 19:31.550]  I mean, it just doesn't seem like anything any reasonable person would do when facing a subpoena from the special counsel's office.
[19:32.130 --> 19:34.990]  There's really no reasonable explanation for this.
[19:35.430 --> 19:50.190]  My thought on this, as I was watching the coverage of it that evening, when I came home pretty late, actually, and was catching up, was there's got to be some kind of hidden intent or hidden agenda related to this Nunberg character.
[19:50.350 --> 20:00.110]  And, you know, perhaps this is some kind of misdirection campaign, or some kind of information op, because something had to be happening around the, you know, around the bend that was we were being misdirected from.
[20:00.110 --> 20:01.430]  Yeah, I heard a little bit about that.
[20:01.750 --> 20:11.070]  Perhaps that Roger Stone had, one way or another, gotten him to fall on his sword, so to speak, which he was openly saying.
[20:11.830 --> 20:15.670]  That guy, if I could just butt in here, that guy is evil incarnate.
[20:16.010 --> 20:17.030]  Roger Stone, yeah.
[20:17.030 --> 20:17.890]  And he would agree.
[20:18.050 --> 20:19.750]  He would agree with that assessment.
[20:19.950 --> 20:21.130]  He would be proud of that assessment.
[20:21.150 --> 20:23.250]  He was the most evil person walking the streets today.
[20:23.250 --> 20:49.450]  But he may have reason to hide, or he may have had conversations that he does not want to get out, and that Sam, if were Sam to be subpoenaed and scrutinized, as this special counsel intends to, or has made an attempt to through the subpoena, yeah, I mean,
[20:49.550 --> 20:58.850]  it's entirely possible that, you know, it's a misdirection on the part of people who have much closer proximity to the president and the administration.
[20:59.210 --> 21:14.990]  And, you know, the other thing I think we should be thinking about is, if this was some kind of information operation or misdirection campaign, we may have missed something, because this was such a major media spectacle that was going on, you know, for a large portion of the day and then being reported on throughout the evening,
[21:15.550 --> 21:16.810]  did we miss anything?
[21:17.030 --> 21:19.990]  Did something happen while we were being misdirected?
[21:20.070 --> 21:34.330]  And I think that the media and people like our listeners and everyone here in the studio should really take a look at that day very, very closely, because I think that there is a good chance that something happened and we may have missed it.
[21:34.410 --> 21:35.570]  That happens every day.
[21:35.930 --> 21:45.030]  For instance, today, we're talking about Trump and a porn star, and we're totally missing the legislation that's going down to deregulate banks.
[21:45.930 --> 21:47.590]  That's going to happen every single time.
[21:47.590 --> 21:49.890]  We need to be talking about all these issues, obviously.
[21:50.390 --> 21:53.850]  I don't think we should be ignoring anything, but we also have to balance it out.
[21:54.050 --> 21:55.790]  I completely agree with that.
[21:56.050 --> 21:59.670]  It is, I think, you know, even still a story today.
[21:59.890 --> 22:02.410]  You know, the story of how much this was a story is a story.
[22:02.570 --> 22:04.190]  Now we're talking about that story as well.
[22:04.290 --> 22:08.430]  So we're kind of, you know, three orders removed from the original story and still talking about it.
[22:08.430 --> 22:13.610]  All right, to shift gears a little bit, there apparently is an issue with Alexa.
[22:14.450 --> 22:19.530]  Yeah, the Amazon Echo that, you know, helps you out many times, sometimes doesn't.
[22:19.690 --> 22:23.930]  Apparently, and this is really kind of creepy, it's randomly laughing.
[22:24.830 --> 22:30.210]  Your Alexa may suddenly have a spontaneous, demonic-sounding laugh.
[22:31.650 --> 22:35.550]  This person writes, I was trying to turn off some lights and they kept turning back on.
[22:35.910 --> 22:39.810]  After the third request, Alexa stopped responding and instead did an evil laugh.
[22:39.990 --> 22:41.590]  The laugh wasn't in the Alexa voice.
[22:41.710 --> 22:42.950]  It sounded like a real person.
[22:43.130 --> 22:47.010]  My wife was there when it happened and she is the only person who can drop in.
[22:47.430 --> 22:48.810]  I don't know what that means.
[22:49.130 --> 22:49.810]  Drop in.
[22:50.030 --> 22:50.410]  Okay.
[22:50.570 --> 22:51.710]  I still get chills.
[22:52.570 --> 22:52.970]  Okay.
[22:53.210 --> 22:54.270]  The alarm came on this morning.
[22:54.490 --> 22:57.350]  Another person said, However, we had the flu and were miserable.
[22:57.550 --> 23:01.970]  I told Alexa to turn off the alarm and upon the second request, she gave us the most chilling, witch-like laugh.
[23:01.970 --> 23:05.290]  It scared the wife and my five-year-old so badly that we unplugged her.
[23:05.890 --> 23:07.210]  I just like that sentence.
[23:07.570 --> 23:09.810]  It scared us so badly that we unplugged her.
[23:10.150 --> 23:10.810]  Get used to that.
[23:10.910 --> 23:12.630]  That's the Black Mirror future for us.
[23:12.930 --> 23:13.890]  It's very creepy.
[23:14.070 --> 23:16.410]  I mean, this is a very, very creepy story.
[23:17.610 --> 23:19.590]  I really wonder how this happened.
[23:19.590 --> 23:27.310]  Was this some kind of rogue firmware update to Alexa that caused some kind of cackling code to get into this?
[23:27.450 --> 23:36.850]  Or, you know, my sort of cynical assessment of this is that perhaps this was some kind of marketing campaign gone bad.
[23:36.990 --> 23:44.230]  This was a way to generate a whole bunch of buzz and attention because Alexa's all of a sudden laughing.
[23:44.230 --> 23:45.430]  It freaks people out.
[23:45.550 --> 23:46.890]  There's a lot of news coverage about this.
[23:46.890 --> 23:50.950]  But people were legitimately scared, it seems, by this cackling.
[23:50.970 --> 23:54.090]  Wouldn't you be scared by a sudden cackling in your house when nobody else is home?
[23:54.230 --> 23:54.950]  I'm used to it.
[23:55.490 --> 23:55.850]  Okay.
[23:55.850 --> 23:57.290]  Well, I don't know what's going on in your life.
[23:57.350 --> 24:01.870]  But Amazon has said that we're aware of this and working to fix it.
[24:01.970 --> 24:02.130]  Okay.
[24:02.230 --> 24:02.670]  You know what?
[24:02.810 --> 24:03.790]  Amazon, that's not good enough.
[24:03.790 --> 24:04.570]  What is this?
[24:04.570 --> 24:05.530]  What is going on?
[24:05.630 --> 24:08.490]  Why is Alexa laughing all of a sudden for no reason?
[24:08.990 --> 24:11.150]  With a demonic cackling type...
[24:11.150 --> 24:12.210]  And I want to hear it, too.
[24:12.350 --> 24:14.550]  But I'm very curious why.
[24:15.390 --> 24:18.830]  I think there must be recordings all over the internet about this.
[24:19.050 --> 24:19.430]  I'm sure there are.
[24:19.550 --> 24:19.690]  Yeah.
[24:19.790 --> 24:20.350]  I'm sure there are.
[24:21.130 --> 24:22.730]  It is very, very strange.
[24:22.730 --> 24:24.870]  And I wonder how they're going to fix this.
[24:24.990 --> 24:27.630]  I mean, because this is basically a patching issue.
[24:27.630 --> 24:30.550]  You know, there's something going wrong with Alexa.
[24:30.550 --> 24:31.730]  And they're all over the world.
[24:31.910 --> 24:35.750]  They need to, you know, have some kind of update that's pushed out to all these devices.
[24:35.750 --> 24:39.730]  And the devices that don't get the update, are they just going to continually laugh?
[24:39.770 --> 24:42.090]  Well, something happened to make them laugh in the first place.
[24:42.210 --> 24:43.690]  It might have been the Nunberg interview.
[24:43.930 --> 24:46.990]  They might still be kind of cracking up about this.
[24:46.990 --> 24:50.790]  It just makes you wonder how much else can be hidden in these things.
[24:50.790 --> 24:58.070]  You know, what other kinds of maybe even surveillance-related features can be added without you knowing about it?
[24:58.690 --> 25:03.230]  Because you didn't ask for a laugh to be downloaded onto your Alexa device, but there it is.
[25:03.590 --> 25:03.790]  Yeah.
[25:03.910 --> 25:09.570]  I mean, you have to realize with these devices, you have almost no control over the code that gets pushed out to these particular things.
[25:09.830 --> 25:28.450]  I was just going to mention, like, this is another example of where proprietary software, you know, people that might understand it aren't legally able to get access to it or would have a difficult time reading logs or getting low-level, you know, diagnostics and logs from the device.
[25:28.450 --> 25:41.290]  And Amazon themselves is vested in not releasing any of that or being very forthcoming with that, which doesn't help anybody looking in from the outside and certainly is only aimed at, you know, preserving their bottom line.
[25:41.290 --> 25:45.570]  Yeah, I think we should have access to that code so we know what's going on.
[25:45.730 --> 25:47.190]  These are devices in our homes.
[25:47.310 --> 25:54.470]  And think about how much better Alexa could be if people were working on the algorithms, if they're working on it collectively.
[25:54.650 --> 25:55.930]  Look at Android.
[25:56.190 --> 25:58.830]  Look at any other project that has taken off.
[25:59.010 --> 26:00.310]  Look at Linux, you know?
[26:00.690 --> 26:00.870]  There you go.
[26:01.090 --> 26:03.310]  Imagine it being as successful as that.
[26:03.850 --> 26:07.090]  But that happened from many people working on it.
[26:07.090 --> 26:14.410]  And, yeah, it's not about having your killer app and, you know, working on an IPO.
[26:14.410 --> 26:22.030]  It's about being involved in the community that is both developing and hacking and breaking and all of that, you know?
[26:22.170 --> 26:25.530]  This may be a stupid question, but are there any open source home assistants?
[26:26.410 --> 26:27.850]  I have no idea, actually.
[26:27.850 --> 26:28.850]  That's a very good question.
[26:29.370 --> 26:30.650]  It's still a stupid question.
[26:30.770 --> 26:31.630]  It might be a stupid question.
[26:31.630 --> 26:33.510]  It's a good question, but I'd like the answer.
[26:33.510 --> 26:38.750]  I would say the Google one because it's based on Android and maybe, you know, you can get involved if you want to develop on it.
[26:38.870 --> 26:40.710]  Or there's an API that allows you to.
[26:41.230 --> 26:41.570]  Okay.
[26:41.770 --> 26:47.230]  And then you can see if it's spying, if it's listening when, you know, and forwarding things to third parties.
[26:47.350 --> 26:52.510]  And I would say even Alexa probably has an API that you can, you know, write software for.
[26:52.750 --> 27:00.890]  They want to encourage people to develop for it so that the uptake and the desire, the convenience is there because there's a proliferation of uses.
[27:00.890 --> 27:08.610]  But in doing that, I would venture to say that Amazon's probably really guarded in how much access people get as they develop it.
[27:08.690 --> 27:10.890]  But we'd have to hear from developers to know.
[27:11.010 --> 27:20.970]  I think the best way to deal with situations like this is to make it hurt as much as possible when you close the information and you don't let people see what is actually running these devices.
[27:21.250 --> 27:22.010]  Make it hurt.
[27:22.170 --> 27:23.210]  Don't buy those devices.
[27:23.210 --> 27:25.910]  Buy the ones that are open that you can see and examine.
[27:25.910 --> 27:27.990]  And, you know, they'll sell more of them.
[27:28.090 --> 27:33.470]  They'll be popular and they'll be much more configurable and open to ingenuity.
[27:34.110 --> 27:35.710]  That's what the hacker world is all about.
[27:35.730 --> 27:36.970]  So we should embrace that.
[27:37.270 --> 27:40.750]  And much less prone to sitting on a bunch of bugs for a long time.
[27:40.910 --> 27:41.170]  Yes.
[27:41.430 --> 27:42.030]  That's true.
[27:42.290 --> 27:49.050]  I mean, to present the other side of the story here, you know, from the business owner's perspective, you know, they want to protect their IP, right?
[27:49.050 --> 27:54.310]  And then the way in which Alexa works, the source code, you know, may not be patented.
[27:54.590 --> 27:56.510]  It may be protected as a trade secret.
[27:56.510 --> 27:58.890]  And then they have to really guard this type of code.
[27:59.050 --> 28:03.950]  Or they don't want to release how much patented code is in it to pay all the licensing fees.
[28:04.170 --> 28:04.510]  Yes.
[28:04.610 --> 28:06.050]  That does happen quite frequently.
[28:06.050 --> 28:08.870]  They don't want to release the information that will show how they're in bed with the NSA.
[28:09.190 --> 28:10.210]  See, I can say that.
[28:10.390 --> 28:10.830]  Quite possible.
[28:10.830 --> 28:16.250]  And you got to prove me wrong because I don't have access to the actual source to be able to see what they're doing.
[28:16.430 --> 28:17.970]  And because you're on WBAI.
[28:17.970 --> 28:20.630]  That's right, where I can say things like, Amazon sucks.
[28:20.650 --> 28:21.550]  I can do that.
[28:21.750 --> 28:22.910]  I can say Verizon sucks.
[28:23.130 --> 28:25.370]  I can say the president of the United States sucks.
[28:25.630 --> 28:26.910]  Uber is a waste of your life.
[28:27.730 --> 28:28.750]  Yeah, I could say that.
[28:28.870 --> 28:29.470]  Well, I wouldn't say that.
[28:29.530 --> 28:30.270]  But yeah, I could say that.
[28:30.350 --> 28:30.870]  I could say that.
[28:31.310 --> 28:31.710]  Yeah.
[28:31.970 --> 28:32.370]  Yeah.
[28:32.670 --> 28:34.030]  We can say most anything.
[28:34.030 --> 28:38.930]  And that's why it's important to call 516-620-3602.
[28:39.190 --> 28:39.650]  All right.
[28:40.590 --> 28:46.610]  I think we're on the right track here with this Alexa discussion.
[28:46.610 --> 28:50.810]  But I do still think, you know, like, there's definitely some business interests at heart here.
[28:50.890 --> 28:53.250]  But now you see where the clash is.
[28:53.510 --> 29:00.070]  You know, now you see where the push and pull is with regard to this particular code and the fact that it's completely closed off from the public.
[29:00.290 --> 29:05.790]  You know, they should at least be very open very quickly with us about this damn cackling.
[29:05.790 --> 29:07.230]  Yeah, and say what you will about Google.
[29:07.390 --> 29:08.730]  But I think if this were to have...
[29:08.730 --> 29:16.610]  If Google started cackling at you somehow, there would be some kind of story about it where they tell you exactly what happened and who was responsible.
[29:16.870 --> 29:18.050]  Somebody hit the wrong key.
[29:18.370 --> 29:20.870]  But they would be open about it at some point.
[29:21.010 --> 29:22.910]  It might take them a few hours, but I think they would do it.
[29:23.090 --> 29:25.430]  Here you have Amazon just saying, yeah, we're aware of it.
[29:25.510 --> 29:26.070]  We're going to fix it.
[29:26.150 --> 29:26.490]  Shut up.
[29:26.650 --> 29:26.770]  You know?
[29:27.530 --> 29:29.570]  Responsiveness isn't necessarily the same thing as mitigation.
[29:30.410 --> 29:32.730]  And, you know, it's one thing, yeah, okay, great.
[29:32.850 --> 29:42.910]  Microsoft knows about something that's broken in their OS, but if they take a year to fix it or they want you to buy a new OS to fix it, I mean, are they really being, yeah, responsive?
[29:43.170 --> 29:45.070]  Well, and the other issue here, too, is...
[29:45.070 --> 29:46.090]  Or they're only being responsive, sorry.
[29:46.290 --> 29:46.610]  Well, right.
[29:46.730 --> 29:57.330]  Well, in terms of responsiveness, it's, you know, it's an issue because the longer they take to respond, the more speculation there is going to be that this is a bigger problem than it may actually be.
[29:57.330 --> 30:05.730]  Because if this is some kind of massive IoT-related breach, you know, a lot of these IoT devices, they all rely on very similar source code.
[30:05.810 --> 30:08.210]  And the source code gets recycled amongst these devices.
[30:08.210 --> 30:11.650]  And then those older devices are not updatable.
[30:11.930 --> 30:12.950]  They can't be patched.
[30:12.990 --> 30:24.590]  And so if this is a problem with underlying source code, there may be a much larger issue for all of these IoT devices that are out there in the wild that can be subject to cackling, I guess.
[30:24.590 --> 30:32.610]  We are getting so many good talk presentations submitted to the HOPE conference coming up in July.
[30:32.930 --> 30:43.770]  If you're involved in anything like this or you'd like to put forth a theory or maybe release some code or do some experiments, visit HOPE.net.
[30:43.770 --> 30:48.170]  And there's a section there on how to submit a talk or a panel.
[30:48.170 --> 30:50.490]  And we'd love to hear from you.
[30:50.630 --> 30:57.130]  We're getting all kinds of really amazing things from really amazing people in all areas of the industry and the hacker world.
[30:57.530 --> 31:09.370]  And this is the perfect kind of discussion where we can reveal things, experiment, surprise people with what these devices are capable of and maybe what new devices can do.
[31:09.370 --> 31:10.070]  Yeah.
[31:10.250 --> 31:11.210]  And theorize.
[31:11.910 --> 31:12.390]  Yeah.
[31:12.750 --> 31:25.570]  And, you know, try things out, test your theories and share, like really get a perspective, get what other people's attitudes are, what their opinions are, what their thoughts from some of these issues are.
[31:26.330 --> 31:28.390]  And that moves things forward.
[31:28.530 --> 31:29.410]  That's the evolution.
[31:29.590 --> 31:31.610]  That's where change happens with technology.
[31:31.610 --> 31:32.630]  Yes, absolutely.
[31:32.790 --> 31:38.310]  I know there's a lot of concern about using devices like this in your home because people are afraid they're always listening.
[31:38.450 --> 31:39.370]  And they are always listening.
[31:39.670 --> 31:44.610]  But does that mean they're always forwarding what they're listening for to a third party someplace?
[31:44.850 --> 31:46.910]  That is the million-dollar question.
[31:47.110 --> 31:53.230]  And again, we don't have the answer to that question without having access to the actual programming that goes behind these devices.
[31:53.950 --> 31:55.090]  It's a valid concern.
[31:55.110 --> 31:58.750]  And it's not something that would surprise me if it were true.
[31:59.770 --> 32:00.250]  Yes.
[32:00.510 --> 32:17.390]  And when it comes to how they're handling particular data, whether they're pushing it out to any third parties or whether they will disclose it to any third parties, let's say if they were to receive a subpoena like Sam Nunberg, are they going to willy-nilly hand over a massive amount of your user data?
[32:17.390 --> 32:23.990]  You know, that's not the best way to win friends and influence people when you're a technology company that has a massive amount of users.
[32:24.370 --> 32:26.950]  And so, you know, generally they will push back on that.
[32:27.010 --> 32:35.610]  But there's only so much pushback that they can engage in before they're going to be facing something like being held in contempt, as we were just discussing.
[32:35.610 --> 32:45.170]  I think, especially if a company is going to abandon a project or abandon a piece of hardware, that they should probably leave people with information about it.
[32:45.290 --> 32:52.930]  You know, how to access it, how to program it, how maybe to change or alter the firmware, maybe all of the firmware in entirety.
[32:52.930 --> 33:13.930]  I think that should be included because if a company isn't going to hire people or pay the people they have hired to maintain that project, but the device is out there, people have bought and paid for it, why not add the opportunity for them to continue to support it either in an ad hoc way or create their own sort of development communities outside of or as a third party?
[33:13.930 --> 33:20.450]  Because if the company's abandoned it, and we've seen this time and time again with proprietary software, there ends up not being any support.
[33:20.630 --> 33:22.570]  And there are people that like these things.
[33:22.730 --> 33:24.250]  Why not hand it to the enthusiasts?
[33:24.430 --> 33:25.270]  Give them the information.
[33:25.470 --> 33:27.910]  8-track machines or a laser disc.
[33:28.030 --> 33:33.890]  We've been talking about getting a laser disc player, you know, that it's gone out of fashion, but we'd love to play with it and develop it some more.
[33:34.090 --> 33:35.530]  Imagine the same thing with software.
[33:35.910 --> 33:43.770]  There's a bunch of laser discs we were interested in, and certain encodings of things are the only place left.
[33:43.930 --> 33:47.190]  For particular episodes and things like that.
[33:47.310 --> 33:55.390]  And I've found many laser discs, you can even get broadcast laser discs from, you know, any kind of TV or cable outlet.
[33:55.390 --> 34:01.330]  I think they were used a lot with commercials before they had digital systems or longer playing tapes.
[34:01.690 --> 34:07.410]  They could just track through on the laser disc to bring up your 4x3 commercials and stuff.
[34:07.550 --> 34:11.870]  So there's all this hardware out there and, you know, old so-called dead technology.
[34:13.210 --> 34:14.330]  We love dead technology.
[34:14.530 --> 34:15.870]  We should be able to play around with it, yeah.
[34:16.350 --> 34:18.710]  I mean, you liked dead technology before it was even dead.
[34:18.790 --> 34:21.470]  I remember back in the 90s when you were obsessed with the mini disc.
[34:21.650 --> 34:24.070]  A lot of technology became dead after I started using it.
[34:24.130 --> 34:25.950]  That's quite true, actually.
[34:26.030 --> 34:26.570]  That still happens.
[34:26.690 --> 34:28.970]  Yes, it might have been because you started using it.
[34:28.970 --> 34:30.310]  I'm not entirely sure about that.
[34:30.310 --> 34:42.970]  But speaking of, you know, sort of abandonedware and dead technology, I mean, you bring up a really excellent point, Kyle, because this is the exact problem that was facing the entire planet when we had the WannaCry, WannaCryp disaster from last summer.
[34:43.130 --> 34:50.270]  You think about how these NHS hospitals were compromised by this ransomware that was, you know, proliferating massively around the planet.
[34:50.270 --> 34:58.810]  It was because they were running on these old legacy systems, these old versions of Windows that were not updated, that were essentially abandoned by Microsoft.
[34:59.310 --> 35:08.230]  And yet the hospital still had to utilize them because they were operating medical devices that relied on this particular older operating system.
[35:08.230 --> 35:10.910]  Because the drivers weren't updated themselves.
[35:11.170 --> 35:18.910]  And if the drivers for these devices aren't updated and can only work on an outdated operating system, then the hospital has to make a pretty terrible choice.
[35:19.110 --> 35:28.150]  Do we stop using these medical devices and stop doing business and buy brand new medical devices that may even not exist that operate on, you know, let's say, Windows 10?
[35:28.390 --> 35:33.290]  Or do we continue to operate in this insecure manner and then look what happened?
[35:33.490 --> 35:34.750]  You know, they obviously chose that.
[35:34.750 --> 35:40.050]  The way you say that, it sounds like a couple of mobsters saying, you know, you could upgrade your security.
[35:40.210 --> 35:43.770]  Look what could happen if you don't, you know, except it's Microsoft doing this.
[35:43.910 --> 35:44.750]  Well, it's true.
[35:44.910 --> 35:52.990]  You know, unfortunately, I think they are held hostage to an extent by the device manufacturers themselves and not necessarily the companies like Microsoft.
[35:52.990 --> 35:58.450]  You know, they're not our favorite company as of lately, as we've discussed on the show recently.
[35:58.450 --> 36:07.110]  But, you know, device manufacturers that abandon these driver updates, you know, they're part of the root cause of this problem.
[36:08.010 --> 36:17.790]  And so, I think this gets back to Kyle's original point is that when you are planning on abandoning something, let us know, you know, so we can prepare.
[36:18.170 --> 36:18.550]  Yeah, yeah.
[36:18.670 --> 36:21.790]  And I would say Microsoft's not as bad as some of the other manufacturers.
[36:21.930 --> 36:25.490]  I would say, like, if you have old software that runs on an Apple machine, good luck.
[36:25.850 --> 36:26.210]  Yeah.
[36:26.210 --> 36:32.310]  If you really need the latest iOS device, you need the latest hardware, they're...
[36:32.310 --> 36:36.930]  I have a font suitcase I cannot open for the life of me, and Hypertext just isn't giving...
[36:36.930 --> 36:37.970]  I won't get into it.
[36:38.030 --> 36:38.970]  Well, fortunately, we know people.
[36:39.050 --> 36:41.190]  We know people in, you know, in the community.
[36:41.230 --> 36:45.150]  And there are a lot of people out there that are enthusiasts of old systems, vintage software.
[36:45.150 --> 36:49.830]  And, of course, there's always some way to do some kind of thing.
[36:49.930 --> 36:58.250]  But without, you know, the average person, without a fair amount of skill and the support of a community like that, it's going to be really hard to run old software.
[36:58.390 --> 37:01.510]  Whereas with Windows, they did a decent job, I would say.
[37:01.630 --> 37:03.530]  I mean, I don't want to get into personal computer stuff.
[37:03.670 --> 37:11.350]  But, like, old software, I think we've found many hardware devices that have that kind of driver and stuff.
[37:11.350 --> 37:20.690]  It's on a rare occasion, I'd say, that you'd find something that really leaves you hamstrung without the exact OS being, like, XP.
[37:21.170 --> 37:25.290]  Most of the code for XP, in a lot of ways, does run.
[37:26.050 --> 37:28.870]  And we've found this to be the case, although not all of it.
[37:29.010 --> 37:30.910]  So I would say they're better than most.
[37:31.070 --> 37:35.550]  And backwards compatibility with Linux and stuff, I'm not sure.
[37:35.550 --> 37:37.150]  I can't really speak on that as much.
[37:37.150 --> 37:55.590]  But I would say there's at least development going forward to bring, you know, vital tools, like you said, an x-ray machine or some kind of device that is attached to a microscope or something that's attached to a computer that relies on those particular drivers or maybe a serial port,
[37:55.750 --> 38:02.090]  some kind of connectivity that, you know, doesn't even exist in Windows 7 because everything's USB.
[38:02.090 --> 38:18.590]  Those kinds of changes, without a support of a community, you're really stuck with, like, really esoteric things like running emulators and that kind of thing, which is maybe fine for retro games, but not so great when you're running, say, like a CT scanner or something.
[38:18.750 --> 38:23.570]  I think if you're happy with a piece of software or even a machine, you should be able to continue using it.
[38:23.570 --> 38:33.070]  You shouldn't be forced into upgrading because many times the upgrades break things or they make things slower or they give you features you don't want and eliminate features you do want.
[38:33.470 --> 38:40.050]  And, you know, I say if somebody is satisfied, I've been using the same word processor now for over 20 years and it works and I'm happy with it.
[38:40.050 --> 38:45.390]  And I don't want anything else because, you know, I'm not doing anything different that I need to do.
[38:45.530 --> 38:47.050]  Same thing with a modem program.
[38:47.190 --> 38:49.110]  Same thing with, you know, a chat utility.
[38:49.410 --> 38:51.710]  Some people are happy with what they have.
[38:51.810 --> 38:53.150]  And, yeah, look at options.
[38:53.310 --> 38:55.730]  Look at improvements, quote-unquote improvements.
[38:56.090 --> 38:59.630]  But to force everybody to upgrade when they don't necessarily want...
[38:59.630 --> 39:08.370]  And this is where I really have to lash out at Microsoft because Windows 10 has this really annoying trait of doing updates and rebooting your machine.
[39:08.370 --> 39:08.890]  Oh, yeah.
[39:08.950 --> 39:15.310]  And insisting that you reboot your machine, you know, at some point when it may not be convenient to you.
[39:15.410 --> 39:18.210]  Sometimes it'll just do it in the middle of a project that you're working on.
[39:18.910 --> 39:22.590]  And, you know, I keep machines up for literally months at a time.
[39:23.070 --> 39:24.190]  That does not work for me.
[39:24.190 --> 39:27.410]  But if I were to use that operating system, wouldn't really have a choice.
[39:27.690 --> 39:32.230]  I don't use Windows in the office, but one of my partners does.
[39:32.350 --> 39:34.050]  And this has happened many, many times.
[39:34.190 --> 39:35.990]  And sometimes the updates take 20, 30 minutes.
[39:35.990 --> 39:39.450]  You know, we'll be about to get on a conference call and his machine reboots.
[39:39.950 --> 39:40.810]  That's ridiculous.
[39:41.110 --> 39:41.590]  It's a complete disaster.
[39:41.630 --> 39:45.130]  The Windows 10 updating system is really authoritarian.
[39:45.250 --> 39:48.670]  And there's very little flexibility and control.
[39:49.130 --> 39:57.510]  And it's, I don't know, it's not ideal and a lot of real change from what I think the average Windows user is used to.
[39:57.510 --> 40:07.630]  So if you liked XP or even NT, you know, you should be able to hold on to that and just do whatever it was you were doing with that and not be forced into something you might not really want.
[40:07.810 --> 40:11.230]  Of course, you'll go a lot slower than everybody else and won't have access to certain things.
[40:11.330 --> 40:12.950]  But that's a choice you should be able to make.
[40:13.190 --> 40:19.630]  You know, you brought up a very interesting point as well, Emmanuel, which is that, you know, we're not doing things that are really all that different, right?
[40:19.630 --> 40:21.830]  You know, from, let's say, 20, 25 years ago.
[40:22.030 --> 40:32.410]  And I've often thought about this, you know, WordPerfect 6.1 back in like 1995 or 1994, whatever it was, was perfectly fine for most of the stuff that I do when I'm drafting documents these days.
[40:32.450 --> 40:36.110]  And, you know, I don't need 16 gigs of RAM to run a word processor.
[40:36.110 --> 40:38.790]  For most of the things that we do with computers, they really haven't changed.
[40:39.130 --> 40:42.030]  I think it's fascinating that you run this old word processing system.
[40:42.250 --> 40:45.690]  Because I remember reading a while back that George R.
[40:45.790 --> 40:45.890]  R.
[40:46.250 --> 40:49.570]  Martin, the author of Game of Thrones, I think he writes all of his books on it.
[40:49.570 --> 40:50.310]  He's a professional, right?
[40:50.310 --> 40:51.370]  He uses WordStar.
[40:51.650 --> 40:52.050]  WordStar.
[40:52.270 --> 40:52.670]  WordStar.
[40:53.310 --> 40:54.430]  That beats me.
[40:54.430 --> 40:55.190]  It really does.
[40:55.290 --> 41:00.450]  But it's living proof of how you don't need the latest gizmo to be productive.
[41:00.450 --> 41:02.150]  You just need something you're comfortable with.
[41:02.230 --> 41:07.350]  And I'll go, as long as we're saying that he is that, I use Lotus WordPro, if anyone else is out there.
[41:07.490 --> 41:07.850]  Lotus?
[41:08.430 --> 41:09.890]  It works for me, okay?
[41:10.090 --> 41:10.590]  It's awesome.
[41:10.750 --> 41:12.790]  It saves things in pure ASCII.
[41:12.950 --> 41:15.910]  And, you know, I've tried all kinds of other things, and there's always a complication.
[41:16.050 --> 41:18.910]  And I don't want to spend all day learning something that already works.
[41:18.910 --> 41:22.310]  So, as long as I have a machine where it'll run, I'm happy with that.
[41:22.490 --> 41:26.610]  I'll save my time for other projects and developing new things there.
[41:26.730 --> 41:32.910]  But that's a good point, because a lot of the, like, really intuitive publishing stuff got lost when they changed WordPro.
[41:33.390 --> 41:34.550]  And I'm sure George R.
[41:34.610 --> 41:34.610]  R.
[41:34.790 --> 41:36.470]  Martin could say as much about WordStar.
[41:36.610 --> 41:38.430]  But there's reasons he likes it.
[41:38.830 --> 41:43.670]  You know, there are distinct reasons that he chooses that software and chooses not to do other things.
[41:43.670 --> 41:50.390]  And for us, specifically, we get formats and all kinds of articles and that kind of thing when you're publishing.
[41:50.430 --> 41:52.030]  And you can't lose stuff.
[41:52.050 --> 41:54.210]  You lose a character in code.
[41:54.210 --> 41:58.090]  You lose, you know, a carriage return that's in the way of something.
[41:58.090 --> 41:59.650]  It changes the meaning of it.
[41:59.730 --> 42:06.870]  So, it's really crucial for us to have word processing that does not alter things without our knowing.
[42:06.870 --> 42:11.390]  And, you know, slipping features that would make it more accurate.
[42:11.670 --> 42:12.850]  We still use VI.
[42:13.170 --> 42:14.470]  In fact, we always will use VI.
[42:14.750 --> 42:17.530]  It's the best text-based editor out there, I think.
[42:17.870 --> 42:20.490]  Of course, other people will argue about that and come up with other...
[42:20.490 --> 42:20.810]  I don't know.
[42:20.850 --> 42:21.470]  I like Pico.
[42:21.690 --> 42:22.810]  I've never really got into VI.
[42:22.830 --> 42:24.710]  You can have Pico if that's what you want.
[42:24.710 --> 42:27.470]  You can do Emacs, whatever religion you have.
[42:27.710 --> 42:29.230]  Don't let the Emacs people in.
[42:29.490 --> 42:31.010]  Even though it's really nano, right?
[42:31.090 --> 42:32.070]  I mean, Pico is really nano.
[42:32.070 --> 42:36.830]  The point is, there are all kinds of old-school things out there that are every bit as effective.
[42:36.830 --> 42:39.670]  It's what's on the other end of the keyboard that matters.
[42:39.890 --> 42:42.990]  So, don't let yourself get talked into things that you don't necessarily need.
[42:43.110 --> 42:45.450]  But at the same time, don't close yourself off to new things.
[42:45.590 --> 42:48.270]  Be aware of them, but just know that you always have a choice.
[42:49.150 --> 43:00.290]  So, please call 516-620-3602 if you'd like to hear more of these conversations or you enjoy other conversations, other topics that we brought to you on Off the Hook.
[43:00.290 --> 43:01.930]  This is your time to donate.
[43:02.170 --> 43:05.490]  You can also go online, give to WBAI.org.
[43:05.550 --> 43:08.210]  We also accept donations via text.
[43:08.430 --> 43:18.170]  You get a link sent back to you, but the letters WBAI sent to 41444 will get you to that link and allow you to donate.
[43:18.410 --> 43:19.830]  We have two packages tonight.
[43:20.710 --> 43:28.810]  One of them is a consulting privatized services with professional private investigator Steve Rambam.
[43:28.810 --> 43:33.910]  We talked with him last week and we're offering that at the $500 level.
[43:34.110 --> 43:44.310]  If somebody is trying to hide, if there's a missing person in your life, this is the guy that can find them, they can figure it out, figure out what's really going on.
[43:44.310 --> 43:56.950]  If somebody is doing something to annoy you, you can have all kinds of information about that person revealed by calling up and pledging for the five hours of private investigation.
[43:57.230 --> 44:01.110]  $500, 516-620-3602.
[44:01.110 --> 44:10.830]  And let me say a few things about Steve because it's kind of a dual pitch for our law firm and for Steve because we work with Steve Rambam quite a bit.
[44:11.050 --> 44:15.130]  In fact, he is the only investigator that we really, really trust.
[44:15.310 --> 44:16.650]  He has never failed me.
[44:16.770 --> 44:31.610]  I have worked with him in Europe, in North America, in the South, everywhere I have worked with Steve, wherever I've done business and he has been the most effective and the most intelligent and the most expedient investigator that I've ever worked with.
[44:32.250 --> 44:47.370]  And one of the things that Steve mentioned last week, which is if you're thinking about investing in something, if you're thinking about investing in an ICO, if you're thinking about making some kind of pledge, not to WBAI, but to another person, do an investigation.
[44:48.150 --> 44:59.910]  And he is absolutely right about that because we investigate financial frauds together and a little bit of due diligence could have saved several of our clients hundreds of thousands of dollars.
[45:00.010 --> 45:08.310]  And when you say that he's the only private I you really trust, if you listened last week when he was on the air, you can hear the profound differences in opinion that he and I have politically.
[45:08.810 --> 45:16.650]  And a lot of people don't seem to understand this, that you can still trust somebody even if they come from a completely different point of view.
[45:16.870 --> 45:25.890]  And that says something about the level of trust where, you know, you can completely not see eye to eye on certain pretty big topics.
[45:26.570 --> 45:33.710]  But when it comes to this skill, when it comes to actually doing the work, that is the guy I would want in my corner.
[45:33.990 --> 45:38.150]  And, you know, that's pretty much the acid test, I think, for anybody that you trust.
[45:38.330 --> 45:38.850]  Oh, no doubt.
[45:39.010 --> 45:39.390]  No doubt.
[45:39.390 --> 45:48.250]  And I think, you know, if people have these issues, you know, one thing that I really appreciate as Steve said is, you know, it's very important to do your due diligence, it's very important to check.
[45:48.470 --> 45:50.590]  And it's the same thing with a law firm as well.
[45:50.750 --> 46:05.050]  And that's what I think this package really gets to is, if you have a legal issue, if you think you have a legal issue, if it's criminal, if you want to talk about a potential civil case you have, or if you're being defamed on the internet, or if you have...
[46:05.050 --> 46:06.830]  Who isn't being defamed on the internet?
[46:07.650 --> 46:08.410]  Sam Nunberg?
[46:08.730 --> 46:10.650]  I think he's defaming himself.
[46:11.530 --> 46:11.930]  Exactly.
[46:12.270 --> 46:12.990]  But wow, yeah.
[46:13.210 --> 46:13.230]  Self-defamation.
[46:13.250 --> 46:14.670]  Anybody could qualify for that.
[46:14.810 --> 46:19.150]  Any kinds of these issues, you know, I think it's very important that you talk to a lawyer.
[46:19.250 --> 46:21.870]  And when you talk to a lawyer, you do so in a legally privileged context.
[46:22.030 --> 46:24.010]  We can't disclose this to anybody.
[46:24.470 --> 46:32.550]  And one thing that would be, I think, a very interesting package for somebody is for at the $800 level, they could get our time and Steve's time.
[46:32.690 --> 46:32.910]  Wow.
[46:32.910 --> 46:39.650]  And that means that we would then be hiring Steve as our agent, which is what we generally do in investigations.
[46:40.110 --> 46:52.270]  And when Steve is acting as the agent of a lawyer, the agent of a law firm, then the product that he produces, his communications, his emails, the reports he produces, then become subject to attorney-client privilege.
[46:52.270 --> 46:58.870]  And that means that you can resist disclosure of that documentation if you're facing, let's say, scrutiny by the government.
[46:58.870 --> 47:05.550]  If you have a subpoena from the special counsel and you want to disobey that subpoena, well, you don't have to produce legally privileged information.
[47:05.550 --> 47:06.910]  They have to pierce that privilege.
[47:07.310 --> 47:13.690]  So this is a way to put a black box around something that may be bothering you.
[47:14.130 --> 47:14.550]  Yeah.
[47:14.670 --> 47:19.970]  And just to recap, that was the private eye services package at the $500 level.
[47:19.970 --> 47:23.210]  That's five hours of private investigation by Stephen Rambam.
[47:23.210 --> 47:24.570]  We're still offering that this week.
[47:24.730 --> 47:33.310]  And just a nice segue into what Alex was just referring to, a legal consultation with Blackstone Law Law Group.
[47:33.430 --> 47:35.830]  That's three hours at the $300 level.
[47:36.010 --> 47:45.290]  And as Alex said, both of these, you could call right now, 516-620-3602 and pledge for one of each.
[47:45.550 --> 47:50.130]  Ask for privatized services and then maybe ask for legal consultation with Blackstone Law Group.
[47:50.130 --> 47:59.930]  Either way, get one, get both, one or the other, or just give us $25, $35, $99.5, maybe half a dollar.
[48:00.070 --> 48:00.590]  I don't know.
[48:00.650 --> 48:02.090]  That might be a little bit costly.
[48:02.090 --> 48:03.310]  I think the processing fees will probably...
[48:03.310 --> 48:03.910]  Postage and paperwork.
[48:04.170 --> 48:05.670]  But we need your calls.
[48:05.770 --> 48:06.610]  We need your donations.
[48:06.750 --> 48:09.110]  To have conversations like this...
[48:09.110 --> 48:09.910]  I finished your phone number.
[48:09.910 --> 48:10.330]  That's important.
[48:10.650 --> 48:13.250]  620-3602 is a last minute push.
[48:13.450 --> 48:15.430]  Please, please, please donate anything you can.
[48:15.550 --> 48:16.370]  Get these thank you gifts.
[48:16.450 --> 48:17.190]  It's really about us.
[48:17.190 --> 48:21.050]  To have conversations like this, that's what you're supporting.
[48:21.230 --> 48:26.330]  To be able to talk freely about the various issues of the world and to open up the phones and have you guys call in.
[48:27.070 --> 48:31.770]  That is what we've been doing for decades now at this place, just on this show.
[48:31.950 --> 48:37.570]  And consider that there are so many other shows on this radio station in any normal week.
[48:37.710 --> 48:39.150]  So that is what you're supporting.
[48:39.350 --> 48:42.090]  And we have the freedom to do that because we don't have commercials.
[48:42.090 --> 48:43.070]  We don't have sponsors.
[48:43.290 --> 48:43.990]  You are the sponsors.
[48:43.990 --> 48:44.830]  You're the investors.
[48:45.030 --> 48:47.770]  You're the people that help us steer this ship.
[48:47.950 --> 48:48.270]  Yeah.
[48:48.410 --> 49:04.810]  And I just want to say that it's really about us raising money for WBAI so that this really unbelievable resource here in New York City is able to broadcast at full power from the top of the Empire State Building, bringing you this show, bringing you many shows.
[49:04.950 --> 49:05.570]  This week, we're on the air.
[49:05.670 --> 49:06.790]  Last week, we weren't even on the air.
[49:06.890 --> 49:07.150]  That's right.
[49:07.150 --> 49:08.010]  We're transmitting.
[49:08.190 --> 49:14.030]  We're on the FM frequency modulation band as well as streaming online.
[49:14.230 --> 49:17.250]  And there are a lot of exciting things going on.
[49:17.590 --> 49:18.810]  WBAI needs to be here.
[49:18.870 --> 49:19.610]  We need to be here.
[49:19.690 --> 49:20.770]  We want to cover these things.
[49:20.930 --> 49:23.350]  There are protests in DC coming up.
[49:23.490 --> 49:29.230]  There are going to be a lot of actions, I'm sure, this summer that people will want to find out what's going on.
[49:29.230 --> 49:38.330]  And when they tune to 99.5, you pledging will make sure that they tune in to us, to special coverage on WBAI, whatever it may be.
[49:38.510 --> 49:39.990]  Your pledge guarantees that.
[49:40.270 --> 49:40.590]  Well, okay.
[49:40.690 --> 49:46.510]  And you just reminded me that since we weren't on the air last week, a lot of people might not have heard what we were offering last week.
[49:46.630 --> 50:03.530]  So I'm happy to say that we are able to continue that offer just through tonight of the private eye services, five hours of private investigation by one of the finest private eyes out there, Steve Rambam, pledge of $500, well below what you would normally pay for something of that magnitude,
[50:04.130 --> 50:13.490]  516-620-3602, ask for the private eye services, or pledge of $300, get the legal consultation with Blackstone Law Group.
[50:13.690 --> 50:19.470]  That's for $300, three hours of consultation, 516-620-3602.
[50:19.690 --> 50:23.870]  I want to build off something that Kyle had mentioned, and I think this is important.
[50:23.870 --> 50:32.050]  We didn't touch on it last week, but something that Steve and I both do, and we do it together, is we actually teach courses on open source intelligence collection.
[50:32.270 --> 50:39.270]  And that's all about the data about you or an organization that's out there on the internet that can be plucked at the ready.
[50:39.270 --> 50:40.730]  You just have to know how to get it.
[50:40.830 --> 50:45.590]  And if you know how to get it, you also, by definition, know how to defend against that type of thing.
[50:45.810 --> 50:49.550]  And Kyle, you had mentioned lots of protests coming up this summer.
[50:49.550 --> 50:52.830]  A lot of people have security issues when it comes to their communications.
[50:52.830 --> 50:57.350]  Coming up this month, Alex, on the 24th, half a million people will be in D.C.
[50:57.430 --> 51:00.410]  and a lot of people in New York and other sister cities as well.
[51:00.730 --> 51:01.750]  We'll have more on that, though.
[51:02.030 --> 51:02.390]  Absolutely.
[51:02.690 --> 51:02.790]  Yeah.
[51:02.950 --> 51:04.090]  I mean, that's the...
[51:04.090 --> 51:06.510]  Yeah, obviously, the 24th is going to be a really big one.
[51:06.730 --> 51:21.890]  But anybody who has particular concerns about this, particular sensitivities about the security of their communications, and they want to speak to a lawyer, they want to speak to an investigator that understands this, we very often counsel people about traveling overseas and bringing a laptop,
[51:22.090 --> 51:27.970]  operational security when it comes to the security of your data, your executives, your trade secrets, things like that.
[51:28.070 --> 51:35.490]  So all of this would equally apply to the situation of going into a protest where you know there is going to be a massive amount of surveillance.
[51:35.570 --> 51:38.150]  How do you protect your data in that particular context?
[51:38.470 --> 51:38.750]  Yeah.
[51:38.930 --> 51:40.470]  And we know what kind of phone.
[51:40.570 --> 51:41.410]  Maybe you have a couple phones.
[51:41.590 --> 51:43.230]  Maybe bring one or the other.
[51:43.230 --> 51:49.650]  Yeah, I could totally see if someone had questions about that, you guys would be a great resource helping people prepare and walk through.
[51:49.730 --> 51:51.770]  And I know a lot of people are planning that now.
[51:52.190 --> 51:55.450]  They're aware that their communications could be intercepted.
[51:56.550 --> 52:01.850]  And they could connect to, you know, rogue towers that are not actually their provider's tower.
[52:02.050 --> 52:04.250]  We've covered all of those things on this show before.
[52:04.510 --> 52:05.390]  There's even...
[52:05.390 --> 52:14.130]  There's technologies that allow you to set up your own phone-to-phone network through a separate frequency.
[52:14.410 --> 52:15.750]  You know, there's a lot of devices.
[52:15.970 --> 52:23.570]  It basically turns your cell phone into a form of walkie-talkie or a mesh network with other handsets.
[52:23.730 --> 52:25.050]  There's a lot of options out there.
[52:25.150 --> 52:44.210]  I'm sure people are going through all of those contingencies and scenarios and getting their technology basically prepared to be out in the open and to be in a place that they're likely to be, you know, scrutinized and subjected to that kind of surveillance.
[52:44.570 --> 53:02.970]  And by the way, if you want to experiment with some of what Kyle's been talking about, mesh networks or various other clever ways to use technology, at the Hope Conference, we have workshop openings for people to lead discussions or to demonstrate things.
[53:04.050 --> 53:06.950]  Whatever you can imagine, we are open to.
[53:07.150 --> 53:13.250]  And if you just go to the Hope.net website, you'll see all the details that are up right now about the conference.
[53:13.430 --> 53:15.710]  More, a lot more will be announced in the weeks to come.
[53:16.230 --> 53:18.550]  But this is your opportunity to get involved in that.
[53:18.690 --> 53:22.870]  And if there's something that you want to share with other people, there is an amazing resource.
[53:23.070 --> 53:34.830]  The conference takes place on July 20th through 22nd, right here in New York City at the Hotel Pennsylvania, and it's going to be really incredible, an incredible period of history for us, because so much is going on.
[53:34.950 --> 53:40.070]  There's so much out there that we are discussing, learning about, experimenting with, breaking, fixing, developing.
[53:40.510 --> 53:42.510]  And you can be a big part of that.
[53:42.550 --> 53:43.390]  And we want to hear from you.
[53:43.450 --> 53:45.470]  It doesn't matter if, you know, you're in high school.
[53:45.590 --> 53:47.950]  It doesn't matter if you're, you know, retired.
[53:48.630 --> 53:53.390]  Whatever stage of life you're in, I'm sure you have something to say, something to share.
[53:53.390 --> 53:58.910]  And if not, then just come to listen and learn, because that's what it's all about.
[53:59.130 --> 54:00.610]  Kind of like what this place is all about.
[54:00.750 --> 54:02.910]  And that's why I hope you support all of it.
[54:03.210 --> 54:08.170]  Yeah, a big thank you to everybody who's calling in, everybody who's listened and supported the show in the past.
[54:08.890 --> 54:10.290]  We're really thanking you.
[54:10.370 --> 54:22.010]  And that's what these packages are about, is a thank you for contributing to the station, supporting us, supporting, you know, getting information out there, and the sort of dialogue around hacking and technology.
[54:22.010 --> 54:23.350]  And that's something to keep in mind, too.
[54:23.410 --> 54:39.790]  In addition to us risking our lives to get here tonight in all the snow and ice, these folks have donated massive amounts of their time as premiums, time they would normally be paid so much more for, and they're not getting paid anything for this because they donated it to the radio station.
[54:40.010 --> 54:42.050]  So that, you know, it's everybody's donating here.
[54:42.250 --> 54:46.170]  We're all chipping in in one way or another, and you can be a part of that as well.
[54:46.170 --> 54:54.530]  And let me tell you, the work that we've done on behalf of WBII listeners who have pledged in the past has been really interesting.
[54:55.210 --> 54:57.570]  People have come to us with really fascinating issues.
[54:57.670 --> 54:58.170]  Tell us all about it.
[54:58.270 --> 54:59.550]  I absolutely cannot.
[54:59.970 --> 55:00.930]  It was legally privileged.
[55:00.970 --> 55:01.690]  You see, he will not crack.
[55:01.730 --> 55:04.790]  I have tried everything, and he won't tell me a single bit of it.
[55:04.790 --> 55:05.450]  He's a pro.
[55:05.590 --> 55:06.090]  He's a pro.
[55:06.330 --> 55:08.830]  Well, you know, somebody's got to be around here.
[55:08.990 --> 55:10.910]  We really appreciate the support.
[55:11.110 --> 55:14.070]  It goes to so many things around here that are behind the scenes.
[55:14.070 --> 55:15.290]  We're talking power.
[55:15.490 --> 55:16.250]  We're talking bills.
[55:16.550 --> 55:19.430]  I know our general managers, he's out there paying bills.
[55:19.610 --> 55:26.150]  He, you know, we have our directors and station managers, people that have to go to the sites when things break.
[55:26.350 --> 55:32.870]  We have a whole support team, a network of people that are in the premiums department that make sure things get out to you.
[55:33.290 --> 55:35.250]  We're really trying to improve the station.
[55:35.430 --> 55:40.990]  We want to upgrade some of the things that we're still trying to catch up from our move a couple years ago.
[55:40.990 --> 55:43.430]  So all of those things will go towards the transmitter.
[55:43.430 --> 55:47.110]  They'll go towards the operations that are so critical to WBAI.
[55:47.290 --> 55:48.810]  And, you know, that's...
[55:48.810 --> 55:58.570]  I just want to get that in there, that that is where your money is going, in addition to just basically keeping our show showing a strong support for the station with these contributions.
[55:58.750 --> 56:01.470]  Just, you know, ask yourself, how many times have you heard our epitaph?
[56:01.510 --> 56:07.370]  How many times have you heard someone say, it's all over, this place is on the way out, and yet somehow we're still here.
[56:07.370 --> 56:09.270]  We're always still here.
[56:09.710 --> 56:10.950]  So keep that in mind.
[56:11.030 --> 56:11.630]  There is a spirit.
[56:11.810 --> 56:12.870]  There is a spirit behind that.
[56:12.990 --> 56:18.750]  And our listeners are a big part of that spirit that somehow are able to keep the impossible possible.
[56:18.790 --> 56:20.990]  And that's how this place got started back in 1960.
[56:21.510 --> 56:30.410]  It was impossible to have a full power FM radio station in the middle of the commercial band be dedicated to this kind of thing.
[56:30.410 --> 56:32.730]  And yet it's existed ever since then.
[56:33.290 --> 56:36.090]  And I think it will exist for a long time into the future.
[56:36.390 --> 56:39.810]  And with your help, of course, without the listeners, we're nothing.
[56:40.070 --> 56:42.610]  And as long as you're out there, we'll be around.
[56:42.790 --> 56:44.470]  And we learn so much from our listeners.
[56:44.610 --> 56:48.370]  We have the smartest, I would venture to say, some of the smartest listeners.
[56:48.770 --> 56:51.610]  And it's really, it's a joy for us because we're not experts.
[56:51.770 --> 56:53.790]  We're here because we want to learn as much too.
[56:54.010 --> 56:55.970]  And I think that's important to emphasize.
[56:56.190 --> 56:57.930]  You know, we get the opportunity to speak.
[56:57.930 --> 56:59.790]  We get to chat, have a discussion with one another.
[56:59.990 --> 57:01.410]  But we're here to learn from you too.
[57:01.530 --> 57:16.050]  When you write in, when people correct things, when they have a conversation with us on the phone, it's so critical because that allows us to be better at forming our opinions and improving and evolving the conversation.
[57:16.250 --> 57:18.010]  I think the roof is starting to leak.
[57:18.110 --> 57:19.270]  So we're going to have to move out of here.
[57:19.610 --> 57:21.550]  And also the next program is coming in.
[57:21.690 --> 57:27.410]  But I do want to thank the people who have called in and remind you that the number is still there, but we're running out of time.
[57:27.410 --> 57:29.910]  516-620-3602.
[57:29.990 --> 57:33.710]  You can pledge for either of the two packages we've been talking about or anything else or any amount.
[57:33.830 --> 57:34.770]  It's all welcome.
[57:34.890 --> 57:36.890]  516-620-3602.
[57:37.010 --> 57:44.410]  And if you hear Alexa say anything else, like if it's beyond the creepy laughter, we want to hear from you.
[57:44.610 --> 57:46.690]  O-T-H at 2600.com.
[57:46.830 --> 57:48.730]  That's the email address for Off The Hook.
[57:48.910 --> 57:52.930]  And we do so love listener feedback, listener emails.
[57:53.430 --> 57:54.870]  People don't write enough these days.
[57:54.870 --> 57:56.270]  We want to hear more of that.
[57:56.830 --> 57:58.810]  Well, we just got an update on the Alexa issue.
[57:59.030 --> 58:01.890]  And I don't think we have time to address it, but it was for somebody listening.
[58:02.090 --> 58:02.730]  And what did they say?
[58:03.010 --> 58:08.550]  They said it had something to do with a command change within Alexa that caused her to laugh.
[58:09.450 --> 58:15.890]  I didn't read the entire thing, but it was some kind of internal change about the laugh command with Alexa.
[58:16.270 --> 58:16.770]  All right.
[58:16.990 --> 58:19.070]  And it caused this unnecessary cackling.
[58:19.910 --> 58:22.190]  But in any event, you know, we're still here on the radio.
[58:22.330 --> 58:25.330]  You may be out on Long Island without power, but you can still listen to us.
[58:25.430 --> 58:26.010]  Please support us.
[58:26.110 --> 58:27.970]  516-620-3602.
[58:28.150 --> 58:28.690]  Thank you.
[58:28.830 --> 58:30.190]  Thank you so much, everybody who has called.
[58:30.290 --> 58:30.910]  Thank you for listening.
[58:31.330 --> 58:32.630]  And we'll see you next week.
[58:32.650 --> 58:34.550]  We want to go out with our own theme.
[58:34.550 --> 58:36.370]  However, there's this amazing website.
[58:36.370 --> 58:50.510]  If you go to the v.webmachine, wubmachine.com, you will be able to take any bit of music and turn it into dubstep or other types of music, if you wish.
[58:51.150 --> 58:52.750]  Drum and bass, you name it.
[58:53.230 --> 58:56.110]  Have a listen to our theme as we leave tonight.
[58:56.310 --> 58:57.750]  For Off the Hook, Emmanuel, have a good night.
[59:10.810 --> 59:11.250]  Shaving.
[59:11.250 --> 59:11.450]  Shaving.
[59:11.930 --> 59:12.590]  No.