[00:12.260 --> 00:27.200]  And while he's thanking those folks, let me take this opportunity to thank all of you, our listeners and support staff, our contributors, our interns, the volunteers, producers, and the entire crew that works countless hours to bring WBAI into your lives.
[00:31.850 --> 00:32.790]  Yes, thank you.
[00:33.130 --> 00:34.830]  A special thank you to you.
[00:35.250 --> 00:38.450]  You are listening to WBAI in New York.
[00:38.650 --> 00:39.490]  The time is 8 o'clock.
[00:39.990 --> 00:42.970]  Time, once again, for another edition of Off the Hook.
[00:45.170 --> 00:54.950]  3.14159 to 65358979323846264338327950288419.
[00:55.450 --> 00:56.910]  Oh, yeah, and happy Pi Day.
[00:56.910 --> 00:59.810]  6-9-3-9-9-3-7-5-1-0.
[01:02.330 --> 01:06.790]  The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[01:07.770 --> 01:12.270]  I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
[01:12.930 --> 01:17.650]  We couldn't get much worse, but if they could, they would.
[01:17.910 --> 01:20.570]  Bum-Billy-Bum, for the best, expect the worst.
[01:21.150 --> 01:23.070]  I hope that's understood.
[01:23.290 --> 01:24.150]  Bum-Billy-Bum!
[01:24.790 --> 02:20.410]  1-4-1-2-7-3-7-2-4-5-8-7-0-0.
[02:20.410 --> 02:22.170]  And a very good evening to everybody.
[02:22.250 --> 02:23.750]  The program is Off the Hook.
[02:24.630 --> 02:26.830]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you.
[02:27.590 --> 02:31.730]  Joined tonight by a particularly annoying computer, Rob T.
[02:31.830 --> 02:32.290]  Firefly.
[02:32.410 --> 02:33.070]  Good evening.
[02:33.770 --> 02:34.330]  Revoltaire.
[02:34.610 --> 02:34.810]  Hello.
[02:34.990 --> 02:35.210]  Howdy.
[02:36.390 --> 02:38.470]  Hi to you, and also to Kyle.
[02:38.850 --> 02:39.890]  Hey, what's up, everyone?
[02:40.830 --> 02:46.990]  I'm going to just turn this down a little bit, because what we have here, we have a computer reading of 100,000 digits of Pi.
[02:47.810 --> 02:49.090]  And that's going to go on for some time.
[02:49.970 --> 02:50.950]  It's good that we have it, though.
[02:51.130 --> 02:52.630]  It's good that we have it in case we need it.
[02:53.370 --> 02:56.050]  And today, actually, you know, today is Pi Day.
[02:57.290 --> 03:02.670]  And there are a few things that I can get on the air and say, this is what's good to be in America.
[03:02.910 --> 03:06.290]  You know, we tell the date backwards from most of the world.
[03:06.470 --> 03:08.530]  We do month-day instead of day-month.
[03:09.050 --> 03:14.930]  Okay, so you can have 9-11 in other parts of the world on November the 9th.
[03:15.090 --> 03:18.530]  In fact, we had a 9-11 the day after Trump got elected.
[03:18.530 --> 03:24.430]  That was another 9-11, because they do 11-9, or we do 11-9, when everyone else does 9-11.
[03:24.850 --> 03:28.290]  But you can't have a 3-14 reversed.
[03:28.490 --> 03:31.850]  There's no 14th month, the third day of the 14th month.
[03:31.890 --> 03:32.310]  You can't do it.
[03:32.310 --> 03:32.770]  Not on our calendar.
[03:32.910 --> 03:36.410]  You can only have Pi Day in a country that tells the date backwards.
[03:36.530 --> 03:39.130]  Yeah, you'd have to switch the calendar entirely, right?
[03:39.130 --> 03:39.470]  Absolutely.
[03:39.670 --> 03:40.430]  That's the only way.
[03:40.430 --> 03:42.370]  You'd have to go to, like, a 24-month calendar or something.
[03:42.670 --> 03:43.430]  Do they have those?
[03:43.930 --> 03:44.570]  My calendar?
[03:45.250 --> 03:48.350]  Okay, well, get me one of those, and we'll have a worldwide Pi Day.
[03:48.350 --> 03:49.330]  I guess, but sure.
[03:49.930 --> 03:54.470]  Yeah, so anyway, those of you who are paying attention know what part we're up to.
[03:58.270 --> 03:59.690]  Almost at my favorite part, almost.
[04:00.730 --> 04:02.390]  This goes on for nine hours, by the way.
[04:03.170 --> 04:08.490]  I'm sorry we couldn't get something a little bit more precise, but yeah, this is where we are.
[04:08.790 --> 04:12.530]  I'll try to keep it down, but I can't turn it off, so as long as you guys know that.
[04:12.530 --> 04:16.070]  But we're back after a successful fundraiser.
[04:16.330 --> 04:17.930]  I presume it was successful.
[04:18.070 --> 04:20.110]  I know our listeners came through, and thank you very much for that.
[04:20.910 --> 04:22.730]  Remember to pay the pledges that you made.
[04:22.930 --> 04:24.130]  That's a big part of it.
[04:24.130 --> 04:25.190]  It's an important part of it.
[04:25.310 --> 04:27.030]  Especially if you'd like your thank you gift.
[04:27.110 --> 04:28.270]  If you like your premiums, too.
[04:28.390 --> 04:31.030]  Yes, we do intend to make sure everybody gets them.
[04:31.290 --> 04:31.430]  Yeah.
[04:32.870 --> 04:36.510]  Sometimes that involves some battling on our part, but that's what we're here for.
[04:36.510 --> 04:39.090]  Yeah, and it helps a great deal.
[04:39.090 --> 04:46.030]  If you pay for your premium, and when we're checking, you get included when you do that.
[04:46.410 --> 04:48.610]  I wish I could have gotten this in Stephen Hawking's voice.
[04:48.630 --> 04:49.750]  That would have been so cool.
[04:51.770 --> 04:53.250]  Oh, it just passed all the nines.
[04:53.810 --> 04:55.070]  That's one of my favorite...
[04:55.070 --> 04:56.390]  The Feynman cluster, is it?
[04:56.390 --> 04:56.670]  Oh.
[04:58.410 --> 04:58.850]  Nice.
[04:59.190 --> 05:11.710]  Anyway, we have some news of scientific advancements, which I think, you know, is only appropriate on this rather sad day when we've lost Stephen Hawking.
[05:12.590 --> 05:18.010]  Pi Day, the day of the massive student walkout at 10 a.m.
[05:18.030 --> 05:18.490]  this morning.
[05:18.870 --> 05:19.770]  That was something.
[05:19.870 --> 05:20.530]  That was inspirational.
[05:20.830 --> 05:21.730]  A lot of history going on.
[05:22.990 --> 05:24.050]  Here's something else.
[05:24.970 --> 05:29.530]  A startup claims it will one day allow people to back up their brains.
[05:30.310 --> 05:30.830]  Yeah.
[05:31.350 --> 05:32.850]  It's a company called Nectome.
[05:32.850 --> 05:41.510]  They say it will one day be capable of scanning the human brain and preserving it, perhaps running a deceased person's mind as a computer simulation.
[05:41.690 --> 05:42.370]  Imagine that.
[05:42.870 --> 05:43.870]  Imagine that.
[05:45.510 --> 05:52.190]  Now, the downside right now is that the current process requires a fresh brain.
[05:52.530 --> 05:53.990]  Now, yeah, I know.
[05:54.110 --> 05:56.550]  That sounds like a lot.
[05:56.730 --> 05:59.150]  And, in fact, the product is 100% fatal.
[05:59.610 --> 06:01.810]  That's the PR people saying that.
[06:02.370 --> 06:03.410]  100% fatal.
[06:04.210 --> 06:12.710]  Now, the company is backed by Y Combinator, an organization that picks a group of new companies each year to fund and mentor in the hope they receive major funding further down the line.
[06:12.710 --> 06:14.530]  Hopefully bring that number down a little bit.
[06:14.710 --> 06:15.430]  That would be nice.
[06:15.950 --> 06:20.750]  According to the company's website, Nectome claims it will one day be possible to survey the brains.
[06:22.870 --> 06:25.430]  Nectome, wow, I never actually read this word out loud before.
[06:26.690 --> 06:30.430]  It looks like connect-to-me, but it's connectome, I think is how you're supposed to pronounce it.
[06:30.530 --> 06:31.290]  Have you ever said that word, Rob?
[06:32.390 --> 06:33.230]  Connect-to-me?
[06:33.390 --> 06:35.490]  It's spelled connect-to-me, but connectome.
[06:35.690 --> 06:37.730]  It's the neural connections within the brain.
[06:37.930 --> 06:38.150]  Oh.
[06:38.430 --> 06:38.590]  Yeah.
[06:39.410 --> 06:41.150]  You use them right now just to say that.
[06:41.470 --> 06:42.750]  Yeah, it's like the word for all of them.
[06:43.190 --> 06:43.550]  Yes.
[06:43.910 --> 06:49.190]  Isn't it connectome like the WikiLeaks predecessor that hosts retracted documents?
[06:49.630 --> 06:49.970]  Is it?
[06:50.030 --> 06:51.530]  I mean, it's a great name for anything, really.
[06:51.830 --> 06:52.790]  I think you're thinking of crypto.
[06:53.050 --> 06:53.910]  Oh, yeah, that one.
[06:54.050 --> 06:55.130]  Oh, okay, well...
[06:55.130 --> 06:55.370]  Close.
[06:55.590 --> 06:56.630]  It's a good name for a hacker.
[06:56.790 --> 07:02.190]  If you're a hacker out there looking for a handle, we've reserved this one for you, and for a fee, you can have it.
[07:03.270 --> 07:03.970]  Yeah, why not?
[07:04.490 --> 07:07.030]  Why not just start selling handles?
[07:07.030 --> 07:08.030]  All proceeds go to WBAI.
[07:08.570 --> 07:09.410]  Yeah, there you go.
[07:09.690 --> 07:13.890]  I mean, if they're going to kill people with this invention, why we can do that.
[07:14.010 --> 07:15.930]  Yeah, it's an obvious tie-in.
[07:16.190 --> 07:19.550]  Well, Network23 did this with Max Headroom 30 years ago, so I'm not too impressed.
[07:19.770 --> 07:21.530]  But they need a fresh brain.
[07:21.630 --> 07:23.710]  The only one I have, I think it belongs to an Abbey Normal.
[07:24.650 --> 07:26.430]  I don't know if that'll work well, but I'll try it.
[07:26.830 --> 07:27.930]  Imagine a world...
[07:27.930 --> 07:28.490]  This is from the site.
[07:28.610 --> 07:33.250]  Imagine a world where you can successfully map and pinpoint a specific memory within your brain.
[07:35.250 --> 07:40.830]  I'd like to be able to do that just in real life, but, okay, imagine a world where you can imagine that, too.
[07:41.770 --> 07:47.210]  Today's leading neuroscience research suggests that it is possible by preserving your connectome.
[07:49.230 --> 07:49.650]  Nectome.
[07:49.790 --> 07:50.490]  You see what they've done there?
[07:51.210 --> 07:52.630]  Their name is Nectome.
[07:52.810 --> 07:56.930]  Will be part of Y Combinator's demo days next week.
[07:57.510 --> 08:01.430]  That's an event where startups pitch their new companies to an audience of investors and journalists.
[08:01.430 --> 08:03.150]  I would give anything to see the pitch for this.
[08:03.150 --> 08:11.170]  Yeah, so a lot of the studies, I think, were starting with animals, mammal brains, like small animals.
[08:11.170 --> 08:17.110]  I think a rabbit, and the article I read also mentioned pig brains and stuff like that.
[08:17.270 --> 08:21.710]  So they're real in the sense they want to do this kind of science.
[08:22.170 --> 08:31.390]  Well, there's no proof so far that memories can be retrieved from dead brain tissue, though the team is looking at methods to perhaps begin the process while a person is in their final moments.
[08:31.390 --> 08:40.490]  So as if you don't have enough to worry about on your deathbed, now you're going to have somebody, you know, clamoring to extract memories from your brain and save them onto a computer.
[08:41.750 --> 08:43.090]  Yeah, interesting times ahead.
[08:43.590 --> 08:51.730]  Yeah, this is a case where they're putting the cart way before the horse, and the science is not kept up with it really close enough.
[08:51.850 --> 08:58.830]  They're relying on the computational model of the brain, which assumes that the brain is just like a computer and can be, like, calculated.
[08:58.830 --> 09:05.010]  Well, yeah, I mean, there are people who believe that, that the brain is just like a computer, and obviously there's a little bit more going on.
[09:05.170 --> 09:05.390]  Exactly.
[09:05.570 --> 09:17.570]  There's a great Wired magazine, which is usually, like, tech boosters, but they had a really good, like, expose on why the computational model of the brain doesn't work, and I'll tweet that out from the Hacker Radio Show account.
[09:17.930 --> 09:25.110]  Hacker Radio Show is our Twitter account, so follow that if you want updates and if you want to say things to us that we might actually see during this hour.
[09:25.190 --> 09:25.910]  That would also be nice.
[09:25.910 --> 09:35.030]  But the Nectome co-founder, Robert McIntyre, bemoans the fact that right now, when a generation of people die, we lose all their collective wisdom.
[09:35.390 --> 09:40.190]  You can transmit knowledge to the next generation, but it's harder to transmit wisdom, which is learned.
[09:40.510 --> 09:42.490]  Your children have to learn from the same mistakes.
[09:42.830 --> 09:55.830]  It's saying things that people have been saying literally for many centuries, and yes, that is part of the whole deal, that, yeah, you can't just copy your brain and give it to your kid, and they can't live inside your head.
[09:55.990 --> 09:57.050]  And it's kind of the way...
[09:57.050 --> 09:59.390]  I think maybe it should be that way, you know?
[09:59.530 --> 10:04.050]  You pass wisdom down, but you don't copy it.
[10:04.670 --> 10:06.970]  It's not really wisdom if you just copy it, right?
[10:08.030 --> 10:09.510]  Well, it's learned at some point.
[10:09.770 --> 10:10.890]  Yeah, you have to learn it.
[10:11.090 --> 10:13.910]  Over a lifetime, so you're inheriting that lifetime, I guess.
[10:13.970 --> 10:20.230]  And modifying it, too, because the wisdom of your ancestors isn't always the wisdom of today.
[10:20.710 --> 10:22.150]  I think we might have learned that as well.
[10:22.450 --> 10:28.730]  Talking of wisdom, there were like four or five Black Mirror episodes tied into this, so, I mean, this is going to end in some horrible, ironic twist or something.
[10:29.170 --> 10:33.130]  Also, Cory Doctorow's book, Walk Away, addresses this issue quite a bit.
[10:33.990 --> 10:57.510]  There's a strong theme about being able to upload your mind and your thoughts, and it's been a topic, I'm sure, of science fiction themes and storylines for many, many years, but here the sort of analytics and the ability to process stuff and image and map things is sort of making those lines,
[10:57.670 --> 11:11.430]  I guess, less definite, you know, and maybe making some of these areas of sort of creative thought conjoined with actual academic thought and research.
[11:11.430 --> 11:19.970]  So it's interesting to see where it goes, but it opens up so many things, as with a lot of the technology that we talk about on this show and that is emerging or has emerged.
[11:20.210 --> 11:21.650]  There's unintended consequences.
[11:21.650 --> 11:25.210]  There's a host of things, you know.
[11:25.290 --> 11:26.850]  Say this was possible.
[11:26.990 --> 11:37.870]  You could have an entire conversation about all of the things you would be then susceptible to and, you know, moral, legal issues, you know, just storage.
[11:37.870 --> 11:43.370]  Say all of your thoughts ever or a simulation of all of your thoughts could be stored somewhere.
[11:43.550 --> 11:44.410]  How is that handled?
[11:44.710 --> 11:47.370]  And who has access to it?
[11:47.550 --> 11:50.250]  What are the consequences of that?
[11:50.470 --> 12:00.370]  And, you know, could you be used for purposes or your simulation, your mind be used for purposes that, you know, maybe you never agreed with when you were alive?
[12:00.670 --> 12:13.670]  You know, say, like a great physicist or scientist creating, you know, things that are militaristic or more economic-based, you know, like just for business and capital.
[12:13.810 --> 12:17.410]  I'm interested in copyright because that's what it all boils down to.
[12:17.430 --> 12:18.130]  Oh, yeah, that too.
[12:18.130 --> 12:22.910]  Who owns the thoughts that are copied, you know, into such a device?
[12:23.190 --> 12:30.190]  And, you know, how would, you know, the people that are descendants, how would they benefit from this?
[12:30.510 --> 12:30.690]  You know?
[12:30.830 --> 12:31.170]  Yeah.
[12:31.390 --> 12:32.970]  That's the argument we're going to be having.
[12:33.110 --> 12:34.050]  And processes, too.
[12:34.470 --> 12:44.890]  Yeah, that is an interesting thing because we do have personality rights today where, like, if you want to computer-generate a long-dead celebrity and have them in your commercial, you need to square away the rights to do that.
[12:45.570 --> 12:46.290]  Even likeness.
[12:46.390 --> 12:48.110]  Yeah, likeness rights and things like that.
[12:48.990 --> 12:51.970]  Maybe I'll donate my brain to the Creative Commons or something.
[12:52.010 --> 12:55.130]  What's the best free software license to apply to my brain when I upload it when I die?
[12:55.190 --> 13:01.530]  Well, we'll get mail for this because whenever we ask our listeners about these things, we always get somebody who knows more.
[13:01.870 --> 13:05.130]  It's not that hard, I guess, but we do want to hear from you.
[13:05.130 --> 13:11.270]  And what if there are haunting parts of people's brains that, you know, people stumble upon or exploit?
[13:11.590 --> 13:12.470]  Or secrets, yeah.
[13:12.630 --> 13:14.990]  Things that, you know, you don't want people to know about.
[13:15.110 --> 13:17.930]  Everyone has secrets, but it's the ultimate WikiLeaks, you know.
[13:18.070 --> 13:20.490]  Just copy someone's brain and you got it all.
[13:21.430 --> 13:23.030]  But the thing is, you can...
[13:23.630 --> 13:38.750]  I don't want to get too scientific here as far as what's actually going on, but, you know, we know about data and information and memories and things like that, but we don't know anything about consciousness, you know.
[13:39.370 --> 13:45.510]  And we can say the brain is a big computer, but we are no closer to actually defining what consciousness is all about.
[13:45.990 --> 13:47.850]  And we certainly can't replicate that.
[13:48.090 --> 13:54.890]  So, we have some big questions ahead of us and a whole new season of Black Mirror, I'm sure, to ponder it.
[13:55.650 --> 14:00.750]  Okay, as I said, you can write to us OTH at 2600.com is our email address.
[14:01.070 --> 14:02.850]  Also, Hacker Radio Show is our Twitter account.
[14:02.970 --> 14:03.910]  You can tweet us right now.
[14:04.030 --> 14:05.890]  Maybe we'll even respond during this hour.
[14:06.230 --> 14:11.670]  Also, we'll be taking phone calls in just a little bit at 347-335-0818.
[14:11.870 --> 14:12.730]  Don't call now.
[14:12.990 --> 14:13.610]  Hang up.
[14:13.730 --> 14:14.190]  Don't call now.
[14:14.570 --> 14:15.270]  Hang up.
[14:15.510 --> 14:15.930]  Seriously.
[14:16.570 --> 14:17.710]  I can't believe people call.
[14:18.730 --> 14:23.110]  347-335-0818 When we give the signal, that's when you can call.
[14:24.890 --> 14:26.150]  And don't pay attention to these numbers.
[14:26.310 --> 14:26.950]  Those aren't phone numbers.
[14:29.770 --> 14:33.170]  And mind what you're doing, especially if you're scanning brains right now.
[14:34.090 --> 14:35.790]  No doubt that some of that's going on.
[14:35.950 --> 14:47.030]  And if you have a talk that you'd like to submit to the Hope Conference about scanning brains, by all means, go to hope.net and read the speaker guidelines and we'd love to have you.
[14:47.110 --> 14:53.670]  We'd love to have you share whatever it is that you think you're doing with the rest of the hacker community.
[14:53.670 --> 14:55.850]  And they'll certainly pick your brain.
[14:56.050 --> 14:56.550]  Uh-huh.
[14:56.910 --> 14:57.090]  Uh-huh.
[14:57.210 --> 14:57.730]  Got it in.
[14:57.750 --> 14:58.190]  There you go.
[14:59.170 --> 14:59.770]  Oh, boy.
[14:59.950 --> 15:04.630]  You know, we mentioned a phrase not too long ago.
[15:04.830 --> 15:06.210]  In fact, quite a few times.
[15:06.610 --> 15:07.350]  Microsoft sucks.
[15:07.350 --> 15:08.130]  We say that a lot.
[15:08.430 --> 15:09.150]  Because we can.
[15:09.270 --> 15:12.630]  Because we're all about free speech here at WBAI.
[15:13.850 --> 15:17.130]  This listener wrote in, I wanted to write to you to say one thing.
[15:17.230 --> 15:17.910]  Microsoft sucks.
[15:17.930 --> 15:18.670]  I have two computers.
[15:18.810 --> 15:21.910]  One is a laptop that runs Linux Linux and LibreOffice.
[15:22.070 --> 15:24.630]  The other is a Windows machine that runs Microsoft Office.
[15:24.830 --> 15:29.950]  I recently tried to move and impress presentation onto PowerPoint to work on it.
[15:30.050 --> 15:32.890]  PowerPoint proceeded to destroy all the previous formatting I had done.
[15:33.030 --> 15:35.590]  It set font sizes to seemingly random numbers.
[15:35.750 --> 15:41.090]  It deleted the backgrounds of each slide and set the brightness of all the pictures in the presentation to minus 50.
[15:42.290 --> 15:44.190]  You don't have malware on your machine.
[15:44.310 --> 15:44.470]  Wow.
[15:44.470 --> 15:47.710]  All this added another hour of work onto the presentation.
[15:47.950 --> 15:54.350]  In comparison, when opening a PowerPoint in LibreOffice, it sometimes increases title size by one point.
[15:54.550 --> 15:56.090]  I see two possible reasons behind this.
[15:56.510 --> 16:06.990]  Either a $70 Office program is less compatible and less usable than a free program, or Microsoft purposefully made this a pain to try and force people who are using LibreOffice to switch over.
[16:07.150 --> 16:10.730]  Whichever of these two is correct, I know one thing for sure, Microsoft sucks.
[16:11.450 --> 16:15.870]  All right, this was unsigned, so I don't know if the person wanted me to read their name, but, you know, you might get ramifications.
[16:16.290 --> 16:19.610]  So we'll take the heat for this controversial opinion.
[16:20.510 --> 16:25.030]  Yeah, a bit of a hot take this whole Microsoft sucks thing, but, yeah, I'm willing to go with it.
[16:25.110 --> 16:34.690]  We've known the company to do shady things in the past to try and lock in its users to their platforms and products, so, yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if there was something shady going on.
[16:35.250 --> 16:39.710]  But more likely, they're just crap at implementing standards.
[16:41.050 --> 16:50.490]  We also got mail about the home assistants that we were talking about, you know, Alexa and, you know, the Google One, whatever.
[16:51.530 --> 16:52.510]  Google Home?
[16:52.670 --> 16:53.450]  Yes, Google Home.
[16:54.590 --> 16:55.430]  All those.
[16:55.710 --> 16:59.290]  We were asking about open source digital AI similar to Alexa.
[17:00.130 --> 17:05.370]  This reader wrote in saying you should check out Mycroft, which had a successful Kickstarter campaign.
[17:05.550 --> 17:07.590]  Go to mycroft.ai.
[17:07.990 --> 17:16.350]  In case you're interested, I also wrote a blog post a couple of months back where I mentioned Mycroft as an example of a digital AI with open source code that can be audited for security purposes.
[17:16.550 --> 17:17.130]  Very important.
[17:17.590 --> 17:29.470]  The focus of the article is how dangerous it would be to start using Alexa-like digital assistance for business use, especially in the legal or medical industries, without some major improvements to security and coding practices.
[17:29.750 --> 17:31.350]  Thanks for such a great and important show.
[17:32.030 --> 17:37.030]  2600 and Off the Hook are more important than ever these days on the cusp of the singularity.
[17:37.130 --> 17:40.070]  Thanks, Ralph, for writing in to us with those kind words.
[17:41.130 --> 17:44.510]  Yeah, and the most important thing about that is you can host it yourself.
[17:44.750 --> 17:45.750]  It's not just...
[17:45.750 --> 17:49.130]  you don't have to rely on their quote-unquote cloud version.
[17:49.410 --> 17:49.630]  Uh-huh.
[17:50.130 --> 17:53.170]  Yeah, that is important, especially when you're not online.
[17:53.590 --> 18:04.810]  Yeah, this sort of thing always really excites me when there's something popular but proprietary out in the world and the free and open source crowds get their mitts into it and basically knock it off in a free version.
[18:05.090 --> 18:09.010]  That's something that's very close to my heart and I'm very happy it's going on and I like the name.
[18:09.870 --> 18:10.930]  Yeah, support these projects.
[18:11.130 --> 18:18.370]  I mean, this is kind of the cool stuff that can supplant commercial products that are wielded upon everyone.
[18:18.650 --> 18:20.890]  And, yeah, often they get it right.
[18:20.890 --> 18:46.090]  They understand usability just as well as any company and their aim is to just provide this as a tool or a resource and not really all that much more like gleaning information about your purchasing habits and all that kind of privacy stuff and at least they're transparent about what they are doing or you can go and track stuff down and look at logs and have access versus just really nothing and
[18:46.090 --> 18:46.890]  being stonewalled.
[18:46.890 --> 19:13.570]  so, yeah, it's worthwhile and going back to, like, software it's amazing, really using even, like, graphics programs the image manipulating program going back and forth between that and, like, proprietary things like Photoshop I feel the same way that they're very close and I maybe use one or the other for different features that maybe aren't quite there yet but the alternatives really do rival
[19:14.470 --> 19:26.150]  the proprietary stuff that a lot of people are used to using so it's no wonder this person writing in is talking about the interoperability between software or formats, really of files.
[19:26.430 --> 19:41.090]  Yeah, I've had to put it my money where my mouth is or my lack of money where my mouth is because I am a working artist in various media and graphics and audio and stuff and I've limited myself to just using free software on my Linux box to produce these things and sometimes you have to jump through some extra hoops but,
[19:41.390 --> 19:44.870]  you know, it gives me the warm fuzzies like I said and it's really worth it to me.
[19:45.390 --> 19:50.130]  Yeah, I'm speaking specifically about GIMP and that's really come a long ways as a project.
[19:50.450 --> 19:51.130]  It's similar.
[19:51.710 --> 19:53.650]  Not a home automation of course.
[19:53.790 --> 19:56.810]  It's certainly just a software package that you run on a machine.
[19:57.030 --> 19:57.770]  That and Inkscape.
[19:57.930 --> 20:04.250]  There's other really strong programs for graphics out there and Blender too has always been a good rival and Povre.
[20:04.490 --> 20:05.570]  Okay, I could just go on and on.
[20:05.790 --> 20:06.450]  Just go on and on.
[20:06.570 --> 20:06.730]  Yeah.
[20:07.510 --> 20:08.770]  There's not enough of that already today.
[20:11.250 --> 20:12.070]  Go on, go on, go on.
[20:12.090 --> 20:12.370]  Go ahead.
[20:12.490 --> 20:12.850]  That's okay.
[20:13.110 --> 20:15.210]  5, 4, 8, 9, 6, 3, 2, 1.
[20:15.210 --> 20:15.950]  I lost my train.
[20:16.010 --> 20:17.110]  I thought I was going to add something else.
[20:17.890 --> 20:24.230]  Well, hopefully our computer isn't distracting anybody because we don't intend to turn that off.
[20:24.670 --> 20:27.250]  Here's another letter though that we got on the subject from Neil.
[20:28.510 --> 20:38.690]  When talking about the creepy Alexa laughing syndrome, Emmanuel said it would be nice if there was an open source version of a home assistant that doesn't track, store data, etc.
[20:39.690 --> 20:42.650]  One where you could see what was sent to where and why.
[20:42.870 --> 20:43.410]  Well, there is.
[20:43.490 --> 20:46.790]  It's still a bit basic, but have a look at, like we said, mycroft.ai.
[20:47.710 --> 20:52.730]  Version 1 can be installed in the Raspberry Pi or, as I did today, in a Linux VM from source.
[20:52.970 --> 20:54.770]  It's pretty easy if you follow the instructions.
[20:54.790 --> 21:01.690]  You can write your own skills for it if you want, but out of the box, it's pretty good and there are a lot of community commands for it too.
[21:01.910 --> 21:05.490]  On Linux, running in debug mode, you can see exactly what it is doing.
[21:05.490 --> 21:06.510]  There is nothing to hide.
[21:06.790 --> 21:08.310]  All is logged, etc., etc.
[21:08.370 --> 21:12.270]  If you have a couple of hours to spend setting it up, it takes ages to compile on my VM.
[21:12.390 --> 21:13.390]  It takes most of the time.
[21:14.310 --> 21:15.090]  You should try it.
[21:15.190 --> 21:16.150]  I found it interesting.
[21:16.330 --> 21:21.630]  They're currently running a Kickstarter for a consumer-ready version 2, which will remain open source.
[21:22.210 --> 21:24.030]  Please note, I have no affiliation with the project.
[21:24.030 --> 21:27.790]  I just did a search after listening to your show and found it and was impressed.
[21:27.950 --> 21:28.570]  Keep up the good work.
[21:28.710 --> 21:29.130]  Signed, Neil.
[21:29.350 --> 21:30.310]  Neil, thank you very much.
[21:30.370 --> 21:35.930]  You know, we should talk to somebody who is involved in developing this and maybe even demonstrate it on the air.
[21:36.050 --> 21:36.630]  I think that would be fun.
[21:37.390 --> 21:53.970]  Unfortunately, when Rob mentioned wanting to run a completely free open source stack of software, when it comes to services like this, even with MyCraft where the MyCraft project itself is open source, there are still things like if you want to look up weather and stuff like that,
[21:54.050 --> 21:58.790]  you're relying on a proprietary commercial service like Wolfram Alpha for that.
[21:58.890 --> 21:59.370]  Okay, but why?
[21:59.530 --> 22:00.490]  Why do you have to resolve it?
[22:00.490 --> 22:07.590]  Because there's no like open source, like, there's no Wikipedia of weather with like an easily accessible API.
[22:07.810 --> 22:08.810]  There's no open source for the weather.
[22:08.830 --> 22:13.670]  There is, but it's not, the API isn't as accessible and like data adjacent friendly as...
[22:13.670 --> 22:14.970]  But that can be fixed.
[22:14.990 --> 22:19.050]  Yeah, it can be, but that's a different step of the stack that needs to be addressed.
[22:19.190 --> 22:20.390]  All right, well, we need to address that.
[22:20.490 --> 22:22.290]  That's one of the failings.
[22:22.450 --> 22:23.010]  Yeah, I totally agree.
[22:23.130 --> 22:23.490]  Absolutely.
[22:23.570 --> 22:26.170]  It's not MyCraft's fault, but yeah.
[22:26.330 --> 22:33.730]  No, but as a community, I think we can band together and say this is what we need to develop and that way we're not reliant on any of this.
[22:33.930 --> 22:34.390]  Yeah, absolutely.
[22:34.550 --> 22:51.710]  Once a project like MyCraft gets the, gets its, gets going basically and becomes interesting enough to develop for and extend, other people who can do something like a weather API for a truly open service can get in there because like Wikipedia itself is a very good example.
[22:51.910 --> 22:52.990]  It's completely free.
[22:53.110 --> 22:59.510]  It's run by, you know, a non-profit and volunteers and everything and it's completely freely licensed and it's there.
[22:59.530 --> 23:01.530]  and it works and it's been working for a very long time.
[23:01.670 --> 23:20.490]  It's amazing too because I was one of the naysayers at the beginning of Wikipedia saying this could never work because, you know, Usenet and there's all, all this, you know, prior history with crowds getting involved in things and just dumbing it down or destroying it and yet Wikipedia works,
[23:20.490 --> 23:21.330]  works well.
[23:21.630 --> 23:27.970]  So, it can go different directions if managed properly and if people take it seriously.
[23:28.550 --> 23:29.250]  So, this could be one of them.
[23:29.810 --> 23:36.370]  One thing that was mentioned was the reliance on offline backend systems and processing and so on and so forth.
[23:36.450 --> 24:03.570]  I read an article recently, can't remember who published it, but it was discussing the advancements in internet of things and the sheer processing power allowing people to run more of that stuff in the device itself and thus taking the reliance away from that kind of connectivity so that it would be only really getting like statistics or telemetry stuff from a sensor or a site that's aggregating
[24:03.570 --> 24:21.610]  that information but other kinds of processing like for the voice response and so on will probably be something that can be accomplished on the device itself without having to have as much connectivity to say Amazon services Or Apple or Google, just to get Siri to say the right thing,
[24:21.790 --> 24:23.570]  or so on and so forth.
[24:24.750 --> 24:28.370]  I also have this story that was on The Intercept.
[24:28.550 --> 24:39.110]  Police in Lancashire, a county in northwest England, have rolled out a program to broadcast crime updates, photos of wanted and missing people, and safety notifications to Amazon Echo owners.
[24:39.310 --> 24:47.430]  Since February, the free app has been available to those using Alexa, a cloud-based voice assistant hooked up to the Echo smart speaker.
[24:47.910 --> 24:49.290]  The first was kind in the UK.
[24:49.290 --> 24:56.130]  The program was developed by the police force's innovations manager in a partnership with Amazon developers.
[24:56.310 --> 24:58.110]  Does your police force have an innovations manager?
[24:58.490 --> 24:59.750]  I don't know of any that do.
[25:00.550 --> 25:08.590]  This program marks the latest example of third parties aiding, automating, and in some cases replacing the functions of law enforcement agencies.
[25:08.870 --> 25:12.790]  And it also raises privacy questions about Amazon's role as intermediary.
[25:12.890 --> 25:19.490]  Now, Lancashire County will store citizens' crime reports on Amazon's servers rather than those operated by the police.
[25:19.850 --> 25:20.330]  Yeah.
[25:20.570 --> 25:35.370]  If we can reduce demand into our call centers via the use of voice recognition or voice-enabled technology and actually give the community the information they need without them needing to ring in to police, then that's massive, said Rob Flanagan of Lancashire Constabulatory.
[25:35.370 --> 25:38.330]  He is a Lancashire Constabulatory Innovations Manager.
[25:38.330 --> 25:40.730]  So that's his job right there.
[25:41.410 --> 25:53.690]  And broadcasting, that's just the beginning of the county's plans, the next incarnation of the pilot program expected to launch by year's end, will allow users to report crimes directly to their smart speakers.
[25:55.350 --> 26:00.450]  Alexa, I wish to report my housemate for verbal abuse or something.
[26:00.630 --> 26:01.110]  Who knows?
[26:01.630 --> 26:08.930]  After that, Flanagan imagines that Alexa might be used not just by civilians, but internally by officers for briefings and important information.
[26:09.150 --> 26:12.470]  The cop would be able to say, give me the warrant details for Joe Blocks.
[26:12.470 --> 26:14.650]  I guess that's their version of Joe Blow.
[26:15.070 --> 26:23.250]  And then it would read back that person's warrant and details and send the information to the officer's mobile device that they have on their person.
[26:24.350 --> 26:29.070]  So, wow, this is concerning, is it not?
[26:29.790 --> 26:37.010]  Yeah, not only from a privacy perspective, but also having, you're basically outsourcing emergency services to a commercial for-profit company.
[26:37.610 --> 26:39.690]  Yeah, and I'm not quite sure why.
[26:39.950 --> 26:41.990]  What is the compelling need to do that?
[26:42.310 --> 26:46.210]  Just to free up their resources so they don't have to answer as many phone calls?
[26:46.370 --> 26:51.110]  The other concern is, is the tech dependable enough yet to trust it with reporting things to the police for you?
[26:51.170 --> 26:58.850]  I mean, my Alexa unit, you know, we'll randomly play a song that it thinks we requested, and we said nothing of the kind.
[26:59.030 --> 27:09.090]  I feel like you would have to start, like, tracking revisions and, you know, what was done in an automated way and what was actually handled by an officer or a real human in all of this.
[27:09.170 --> 27:19.790]  You know, as you ramp up some sort of tech solution to supplant people that are answering phones or whatever, and a report all of a sudden is being written by an algorithm, how do you know that?
[27:19.930 --> 27:36.330]  You know, you have to kind of be able to go back and account for a lot of these, and have responsibility in that agency, especially if it's, you know, affecting people's lives, you know, upending families or, you know, just changing, you know, your police record without any intervention.
[27:37.190 --> 27:38.990]  That, I think, would raise a lot of questions.
[27:39.390 --> 27:45.050]  Well, these devices are going to become more and more insidious, and you won't be able to get away from them.
[27:45.290 --> 27:46.230]  They'll be everywhere.
[27:46.470 --> 27:49.290]  They'll be interacting with us on a daily basis.
[27:49.470 --> 28:00.930]  When you're reading, thinking of the social credit system being incorporated and how all of these things then sort of tie together as little pieces, yeah, they may be sort of funny and isolated and, oh, gee, that would need a lot of work.
[28:00.930 --> 28:12.370]  But when the entirety of it is sort of assembled as one large system, yeah, you really want to know the answers to those questions instead of just raising them after you've implemented this system.
[28:12.370 --> 28:13.310]  You want to know.
[28:13.430 --> 28:25.690]  You want to have, like, an idea going into that kind of thing, because when it is all tied together and, you know, incriminating people and changing their lives in that way, you're kind of, you know, the cat's out of the bag.
[28:25.810 --> 28:28.210]  They're already... you're already at the effect of it.
[28:29.050 --> 28:40.190]  Now, I'm very curious, though, about the development of these devices, particularly Alexa, because I like to play with Alexa, getting responses of various sorts.
[28:40.190 --> 28:53.190]  And I've noticed that, you know, maybe a year or so ago, whenever somebody was talking to Alexa, either over the radio or through television, it would act on whatever was being said.
[28:53.390 --> 28:54.630]  It drove some people crazy.
[28:54.630 --> 28:55.510]  It caused some mischief.
[28:55.750 --> 28:58.310]  Now it doesn't happen as much, and I don't know why.
[28:59.290 --> 29:10.950]  Is there some kind of communication between television networks or radio networks and Amazon saying, okay, this is something that isn't real, so don't act on it.
[29:10.990 --> 29:14.150]  I see the light lights up, but it doesn't actually act on it.
[29:14.290 --> 29:15.370]  Now, we haven't done this.
[29:15.370 --> 29:24.150]  We haven't communicated and said what we're going to say right now is something that's already recorded and shouldn't be acted upon.
[29:24.770 --> 29:29.510]  So when I say something like, Alexa, tell me a joke.
[29:30.410 --> 29:32.030]  Did your Alexa just tell you a joke?
[29:32.130 --> 29:33.390]  Is it telling you a joke right now?
[29:33.530 --> 29:35.510]  Or did it just light up and not do anything?
[29:36.250 --> 29:39.170]  These are the questions we need to find our answers to.
[29:39.430 --> 29:39.830]  Walter?
[29:39.970 --> 29:51.730]  My guess is that they've changed the sound, the wake recognition signatures to be able to distinguish between when it's coming from a voice in the room versus coming through a speaker.
[29:51.930 --> 29:53.130]  Yeah, but how can it tell the difference?
[29:53.290 --> 30:03.350]  Because it's basically the API and their software is updated daily, and they can use sound signatures to change what it sounds to the wake word.
[30:03.630 --> 30:04.230]  That's possible.
[30:04.370 --> 30:05.570]  We covered this.
[30:05.570 --> 30:07.790]  It's the gaps in the frequencies.
[30:07.970 --> 30:08.570]  Don't you remember this?
[30:08.870 --> 30:10.550]  Am I the only person that remembers this?
[30:10.650 --> 30:12.130]  Those have to be pre-announced.
[30:12.230 --> 30:16.530]  If you have a Super Bowl ad, they'll feed that into the ad itself.
[30:16.630 --> 30:18.330]  There's gaps in the frequency spectrum.
[30:18.410 --> 30:22.710]  But Emmanuel was talking about right now where we haven't pre-fed them.
[30:22.850 --> 30:23.610]  We haven't lowered them.
[30:24.570 --> 30:27.910]  Us at WBI haven't told Amazon we're going to say, hey, Alexa.
[30:28.990 --> 30:42.450]  Yeah, when we covered this and discussed this, another one of the possibilities that I think was out there was that if the Amazon servers detect the exact same wake word and request and signature coming from multiple devices all over the place at once,
[30:42.590 --> 30:46.070]  it's a pretty safe bet that that's something that's on television that everyone happens to be watching.
[30:46.070 --> 30:49.510]  But I don't think millions of people are listening to us right now or even thousands.
[30:49.830 --> 30:52.690]  So it would be less of a chance to do that.
[30:53.270 --> 30:59.090]  And that's especially the people who are listening live who haven't had a chance to be weeded out.
[30:59.630 --> 31:03.170]  Well, we'll waterboard Alexa tonight and see if she talks.
[31:03.170 --> 31:09.390]  Well, you know, I'm just curious how the technology is developing and we learn more by experimenting.
[31:10.330 --> 31:13.170]  Here's something we're learning more about even as we speak.
[31:13.410 --> 31:15.250]  Remember that sonic weapon used at the U.S.
[31:15.310 --> 31:17.970]  embassy in Cuba that everybody was all going nuts over?
[31:18.190 --> 31:25.210]  Well, apparently they might be on the verge of figuring out what caused all that.
[31:26.390 --> 31:33.930]  Looking at a spectral plot of the clip on YouTube, a computer scientist at the University of Michigan noted some unusual ripples.
[31:34.110 --> 31:36.230]  He thought he might know what they meant.
[31:37.990 --> 31:48.930]  This person's lab specializes in analyzing the cybersecurity of devices connected to the Internet of Things such as sensors, pacemakers, RFIDs, autonomous vehicles.
[31:49.550 --> 31:58.490]  And that work has taught him that modern electronics often behave in unpredictable ways and that such devices can be manipulated intentionally or inadvertently using carefully crafted acoustic or radio interference.
[31:59.370 --> 32:16.710]  Now, basically, this guy, Kevin Fu, has said that he thinks it might be subharmonics, or at least that's what he originally thought, and was basically talking to a colleague of his who told him, no, Kevin, you're wrong.
[32:16.750 --> 32:18.150]  I just did an experiment to prove it.
[32:18.930 --> 32:28.370]  And they started with a fast Fourier transform of audio which revealed the signal's exact frequencies and amplitudes through a series of simulations.
[32:28.990 --> 32:36.350]  They showed that an effect known as intermodulation distortion could have produced the sound.
[32:36.530 --> 32:48.390]  Intermodulation distortion occurs when two signals having different frequencies combine to produce synthetic signals at the difference, some or multiples of the original frequencies, like harmonics on radio.
[32:48.550 --> 32:59.030]  It's a little bit like what I was talking about last week with noise cancellation, but this is a noise cancellation where there's a difference at the end, and whatever's left over is that high-pitched noise.
[32:59.510 --> 33:00.630]  And I read this.
[33:00.750 --> 33:02.110]  It was very interesting what these guys were doing.
[33:02.270 --> 33:06.810]  I think there was even some Rick rolling in their experiment.
[33:07.650 --> 33:27.790]  But it's interesting that the conclusions that have been a lot of research, a lot of people have been looking into this and concerned, and of course, Cuban government denying it and feeling as though they're being wrongfully implicated for something that may just be a mistake.
[33:28.030 --> 33:40.890]  I think one of the things that was suggested in the article was that it was an ultrasonic transmitter of one sort that was maybe interfering with another transmitter that was placed unbeknownst to the people.
[33:41.010 --> 33:42.810]  Here's what he did.
[33:42.990 --> 33:47.610]  He emitted a signal at 25 kilohertz and then another signal at 32 kilohertz.
[33:47.750 --> 34:01.130]  And when it crossed the two signals, it produced a telltale high-pitched sound at seven kilohertz, which was equal to the difference between the two speakers' frequencies and the same frequency as in the audio.
[34:01.830 --> 34:07.630]  So that could be what we have discovered from this.
[34:07.730 --> 34:18.050]  And as you mentioned, and a nod to the internet meme, Rick rolling, he was even able to embed an ultrasonic version of the Rick Ashley song, Never Gonna Give You Up, which became audible at the point where the two signals crossed.
[34:18.290 --> 34:22.070]  So yeah, through Rick rolling, maybe we'll get an answer to this at last.
[34:22.070 --> 34:25.670]  And the Cold War can come to an end again.
[34:26.590 --> 34:26.850]  Okay.
[34:27.330 --> 34:28.850]  Hope Hicks apparently was hacked.
[34:29.050 --> 34:31.670]  She told the House Intelligence Committee her email was hacked.
[34:32.070 --> 34:32.250]  Really?
[34:32.510 --> 34:32.810]  Yeah.
[34:33.670 --> 34:36.930]  She said that this actually happened a little while ago, a couple weeks ago.
[34:37.570 --> 34:47.450]  Four people present for her testimony told NBC, the former White House communications director, talked about both her Donald Trump campaign and personal email accounts.
[34:47.750 --> 34:49.910]  Hicks said that one of her accounts had been hacked.
[34:50.250 --> 34:55.010]  The sources said, however, it was not immediately clear which account she was referring to when she made that remark.
[34:55.310 --> 35:00.830]  Hicks testified before the committee as part of the investigation into Russian attempts to interfere in the 2016 election.
[35:00.830 --> 35:08.810]  She had been one of the one of Trump's earliest campaign ads and had been a senior White House official in his administration until she wasn't.
[35:09.170 --> 35:11.770]  So that's where that is.
[35:11.970 --> 35:13.150]  We had nothing to do with it.
[35:14.090 --> 35:19.670]  Our involvement with Hope Hicks ended with the previous Hope conference.
[35:20.030 --> 35:22.190]  So yeah, I just want to make sure that's clear.
[35:23.530 --> 35:26.210]  You know, I saw this online.
[35:26.390 --> 35:28.850]  The FBI's 10 most wanted black hat hackers.
[35:29.770 --> 35:33.670]  Number 10 from Security Boulevard.
[35:33.810 --> 35:37.030]  You know, I never trust sites that have names like Security Boulevard.
[35:37.530 --> 35:39.110]  Hackers all have different intentions.
[35:39.390 --> 35:42.890]  Some work to making computer networks more secure.
[35:43.190 --> 35:47.370]  Others develop malware, explore or exploit rather software vulnerabilities.
[35:47.650 --> 35:49.670]  Of the latter group, there was a special subclass of criminals.
[35:49.910 --> 35:54.010]  Those who make the FBI's cyber's most wanted list.
[35:54.010 --> 35:56.390]  FBI's cyber's most wanted list.
[35:56.590 --> 35:58.090]  Is that really how they phrase it?
[35:58.170 --> 35:58.330]  Wow.
[35:58.850 --> 36:02.390]  These individuals give a whole new meaning to black hat hacking.
[36:02.610 --> 36:08.630]  Another phrase I hate because it's just... well, we could get into that for a whole half hour.
[36:09.110 --> 36:12.390]  The nature of their crimes is such that all U.S.
[36:12.450 --> 36:18.130]  law enforcement agencies have mobilized against them under a shared commitment to bring these bad actors to justice.
[36:18.390 --> 36:23.510]  For the next few weeks, we'll be counting down 10 of the most wanted black hat hackers by the FBI.
[36:23.510 --> 36:25.430]  This week, we begin with number 10.
[36:26.030 --> 36:27.910]  Yeah, so they're not even going to tell you who the other nine are.
[36:28.230 --> 36:30.470]  You're only going to know about Bezad Mezri.
[36:30.770 --> 36:40.250]  He is the Iran-based black hat hacker who began conducting reconnaissance of the networks and employees at home box office, HBO, a premium cable and satellite television network.
[36:40.390 --> 36:46.290]  He spent the next two months compromising employees' accounts so that he could access corporate servers and exfiltrate sensitive data.
[36:46.450 --> 36:51.830]  Some of the information he stole included footage from upcoming episodes of popular HBO shows like Curb Your Enthusiast.
[36:51.830 --> 36:56.930]  Really, this is number 10 in the most wanted hacker in the entire world.
[36:57.070 --> 37:02.310]  Somebody who got copies of Curb Your Enthusiasm to the public, you know, a little while before they were supposed to be.
[37:02.470 --> 37:04.110]  This seems a bit much.
[37:04.270 --> 37:06.790]  And, you know, what is this with the countdown?
[37:07.090 --> 37:13.370]  If these are so-called dangerous criminals, shouldn't you let them know who they are all at once?
[37:13.630 --> 37:15.110]  What if they're sitting right next to you?
[37:15.190 --> 37:15.590]  You don't know.
[37:17.830 --> 37:20.350]  I think this countdown calls for dedicated theme music.
[37:21.470 --> 37:22.530]  Uh, yeah, sure.
[37:22.530 --> 37:23.070]  Why not?
[37:23.250 --> 37:24.290]  You come up with it.
[37:25.770 --> 37:26.770]  Yeah, it's stupid.
[37:27.150 --> 37:29.270]  Uh, really, you could hack better things.
[37:29.530 --> 37:31.870]  Uh, but okay, that's I guess why it's 10.
[37:32.530 --> 37:44.310]  Uh, and um, it just shows how it, I guess on the other hand, shows how, uh, just how strong RIA, MPAA, you know, we're well aware obviously with our history.
[37:44.590 --> 37:58.370]  Um, but how, um, how much they want, uh, to control media now and, um, and, and just how scared of them, um, people are, or they can have these cases to, to sort of, so fear.
[37:58.490 --> 38:10.070]  Um, and you know, any hacker out there trying to get a show or get into one of these, uh, production companies, um, as though that's like some, you know, holy grail of, of hacking.
[38:10.490 --> 38:15.970]  It's, as I said, a little lame, but, um, I guess there's skill involved.
[38:16.130 --> 38:18.190]  So, you know, they're worthy of 10.
[38:18.430 --> 38:20.250]  See what number nine is next week.
[38:20.270 --> 38:22.290]  I thought that was us that was doing the countdown.
[38:22.990 --> 38:24.530]  It's, it's, it's, it's the actual FBI.
[38:24.750 --> 38:26.030]  They're counting down slowly.
[38:26.270 --> 38:27.710]  Can you just see the whole list on their website?
[38:27.930 --> 38:29.730]  Well, no, that's actually security Boulevard doing that.
[38:29.990 --> 38:31.250]  Oh, security Boulevard is doing that.
[38:31.470 --> 38:32.330]  I'm, I'm skipping ahead.
[38:32.490 --> 38:32.630]  Yeah.
[38:32.750 --> 38:33.790]  I'm not going to, I'm not going to wait.
[38:33.870 --> 38:39.190]  No, I went to the FBI site directly and I can see, uh, for top 10, actually, I'm getting 31 items.
[38:39.330 --> 38:39.930]  I don't know why I'm getting 30.
[38:39.950 --> 38:40.210]  Okay.
[38:40.230 --> 38:48.170]  And I was even more confused because security Boulevard, I thought was where this, um, hacker came from or had, had a street address exploited.
[38:48.390 --> 38:48.510]  Yeah.
[38:48.610 --> 38:48.930]  I don't know.
[38:49.050 --> 38:52.250]  This was his, uh, his, uh, little company that he started.
[38:52.390 --> 38:53.330]  Oh my God, he's on there.
[38:53.390 --> 38:54.330]  Oh, is he?
[38:54.870 --> 38:55.470]  Oh dear.
[38:55.770 --> 38:55.950]  All right.
[38:55.990 --> 38:57.410]  Well now I have a conflict of interest here.
[38:57.410 --> 38:59.470]  Um, but you know, it's interesting.
[38:59.590 --> 39:00.190]  They're all males.
[39:00.630 --> 39:01.810]  Every single one of them is.
[39:01.930 --> 39:04.070]  And, and, and that's not, that's not right.
[39:04.290 --> 39:04.990]  That's not right.
[39:04.990 --> 39:10.590]  There should be, you know, some representation here and we can't have all the cyber criminals be male.
[39:10.910 --> 39:11.810]  That's, that's just not right.
[39:12.010 --> 39:12.550]  I don't know.
[39:12.630 --> 39:16.390]  All the ones who were, uh, who were failed enough to get caught could be male.
[39:16.790 --> 39:20.030]  Um, yeah, maybe the, the females and they haven't been caught.
[39:20.150 --> 39:20.870]  That's why they're wanted.
[39:21.110 --> 39:23.750]  And others are, um, just better at doing crimes.
[39:24.050 --> 39:24.370]  Uh huh.
[39:25.190 --> 39:30.010]  I'm glad to know this is actually coming from the FBI and it's not just like the 10 most wanted by Larry David or something.
[39:30.150 --> 39:34.790]  I gotta say, this is, this is a rather sloppy site because they don't really give numbers to, to, uh, anybody.
[39:35.490 --> 39:45.070]  Um, moving on to, uh, to Danielle, uh, Danielle Jelardor, uh, wire fraud, access device fraud, aggravated identity theft.
[39:45.650 --> 39:45.830]  Really?
[39:45.890 --> 39:47.430]  This is like the top 10 in the world.
[39:47.550 --> 39:48.790]  And they're all from Iran too.
[39:49.510 --> 39:51.030]  Everyone I've looked at so far is from Iran.
[39:51.030 --> 39:53.650]  So I'm thinking this is more of a political agenda.
[39:53.990 --> 39:54.310]  That's a little suspicious.
[39:54.450 --> 39:54.650]  Yeah.
[39:54.870 --> 40:00.570]  It's more of a political agenda that's being, uh, you know, uh, sought here from, from the government's perspective.
[40:02.450 --> 40:02.930]  Yeah.
[40:03.070 --> 40:10.030]  And, and also if, uh, like, these are, given these Iranian hackers, they're almost certainly like government-backed and being funded by the government.
[40:10.250 --> 40:20.030]  So in that sense that they're not really representing the hacker ethos and the Richard Stallman sense of the word of like, uh, about freedom of information, they're really representing just like financial interests.
[40:20.690 --> 40:22.590]  They're not, they're not hacking for...
[40:22.590 --> 40:22.710]  Exactly.
[40:22.850 --> 40:22.910]  Yeah.
[40:22.990 --> 40:24.430]  It's got nothing to do with, uh, actual hacking.
[40:24.570 --> 40:27.950]  Here's, um, uh, Arash Amiri Abedian.
[40:28.150 --> 40:29.210]  Guess where he lives?
[40:29.290 --> 40:29.630]  Iran.
[40:30.070 --> 40:32.770]  This, this really is, uh, it's kind of ridiculous.
[40:32.950 --> 40:43.530]  It wanted for allegedly conspiring to use computers and the internet to obtain, distribute and use unauthorized credit card numbers and other personal identifiers in order to obtain goods and services in the United States and elsewhere by fraud.
[40:43.650 --> 40:52.730]  You know, I can, I can name 20 people that have been accused of that over the last year or so that live within a mile of here.
[40:53.050 --> 40:55.470]  You know, it's, it's not that uncommon.
[40:55.490 --> 41:00.290]  I don't know why this person is the top 10 in the world, unless he was really, really good at it.
[41:02.410 --> 41:02.950]  All right.
[41:03.230 --> 41:05.270]  Uh, we've run out of things to say on this, I guess.
[41:05.550 --> 41:07.470]  Uh, so probably, probably best.
[41:07.590 --> 41:08.650]  Let's, um, open up the phones.
[41:09.770 --> 41:11.630]  347-335-0818.
[41:11.630 --> 41:12.670]  Here from our listeners.
[41:12.970 --> 41:26.150]  See if, uh, if, if there's anything you'd like to share with us as far as, uh, um, well, what's been going on in the, um, uh, computer world, hacker world, your world over the last few weeks, we haven't had a chance to really take phone calls during the fundraiser.
[41:27.310 --> 41:30.510]  347-335-0818.
[41:32.270 --> 41:35.810]  While we're waiting, uh, we did least, we did lose Stephen Hawking today.
[41:36.090 --> 41:46.150]  Um, very early in the morning for us, but, uh, there was a great picture posted earlier to the software Gore subreddit on Reddit, which somebody here, um, before midnight asked Siri, when did Stephen Hawking die?
[41:46.270 --> 41:50.110]  And Siri replied, getting the date from the UK, Stephen Hawking died tomorrow.
[41:50.890 --> 41:51.290]  Wow.
[41:52.470 --> 41:52.870]  Okay.
[41:53.090 --> 41:53.670]  That's something.
[41:54.410 --> 41:55.290]  Let's take a phone call.
[41:55.370 --> 41:55.670]  Good evening.
[41:55.810 --> 41:56.630]  You're on off the hook.
[41:56.750 --> 41:56.930]  Go ahead.
[41:56.930 --> 42:01.470]  1-5-5-9-0-7-4-0-2-0-2-0-2-0.
[42:01.710 --> 42:02.030]  Okay.
[42:02.870 --> 42:03.430]  Uh, hang on.
[42:03.490 --> 42:04.310]  Are we hitting the right buttons?
[42:05.150 --> 42:05.810]  Someone there?
[42:08.070 --> 42:08.450]  Okay.
[42:08.830 --> 42:09.770]  Oh, I'm not hitting the right button.
[42:09.950 --> 42:10.490]  I'm sorry.
[42:10.550 --> 42:10.950]  My fault.
[42:11.010 --> 42:11.310]  My fault.
[42:11.410 --> 42:12.510]  I haven't taken a phone call in so long.
[42:12.550 --> 42:13.010]  I forgot how.
[42:13.390 --> 42:13.730]  Good evening.
[42:13.830 --> 42:14.150]  You're on the air.
[42:14.210 --> 42:14.430]  Go ahead.
[42:15.270 --> 42:15.490]  Hi.
[42:15.610 --> 42:17.990]  I wanted to talk about Verizon Fios.
[42:18.510 --> 42:19.030]  Oh boy.
[42:19.150 --> 42:19.390]  Okay.
[42:19.930 --> 42:20.350]  Go ahead.
[42:20.350 --> 42:20.350]  Yeah.
[42:20.350 --> 42:24.350]  I switched to, I switched to Fios, uh, less than a year ago.
[42:24.910 --> 42:29.730]  And, um, as you know, we've had, uh, three nor'easters in less than two weeks.
[42:29.730 --> 42:30.050]  Uh huh.
[42:30.170 --> 42:37.730]  And, uh, the second nor'easter, I did lose electricity and my Fios, my landline went out as well.
[42:37.830 --> 42:38.510]  What a surprise.
[42:39.250 --> 42:42.250]  And I called, I called Verizon and I explained that to them.
[42:42.250 --> 42:59.070]  I said, I've lived in New York all my life, always had a copper line, never lost my, my use of my landline, even during hurricane Sandy and hurricane Irene, when I lost electricity for five and nine days, uh, respectively.
[42:59.470 --> 42:59.730]  Uh huh.
[42:59.730 --> 43:09.750]  So the guy was saying, uh, well, you were very smart to switch to Fios because fiber optic is so much more reliable and robust than copper wires.
[43:09.970 --> 43:11.850]  Was he even listening to you at all?
[43:11.990 --> 43:13.090]  Hear anything you said?
[43:13.290 --> 43:14.970]  No, I, I don't think he was.
[43:15.230 --> 43:28.430]  He said, uh, you know, uh, people were telling us for years, how we'd have these heavy rain storms and people with copper wires would lose their, the, uh, the function of their landline.
[43:28.630 --> 43:32.490]  And I said, well, I'm just telling you, I just lost electricity.
[43:32.850 --> 43:36.350]  And when I called Verizon, they said, well, there's nothing we can do.
[43:36.470 --> 43:38.230]  It's a PSCG problem.
[43:38.710 --> 43:38.930]  Wow.
[43:39.090 --> 43:42.990]  So he said, I said, what can you do to rectify this situation?
[43:43.370 --> 43:48.470]  So the next time there's a power outage, uh, my, uh, landline won't be disrupted.
[43:48.710 --> 43:58.470]  And he said, well, we can give you a rechargeable battery that will give you 24 hours of service, uh, for a charge of 39 99.
[43:58.930 --> 43:59.330]  Wow.
[43:59.390 --> 44:03.410]  I said, um, I said, okay, well, I think I'll pass on that.
[44:03.530 --> 44:14.890]  But I just wanted to tell you and your listeners, if you guys are thinking that Fios is going to be a better deal than, um, the copper line, I don't think that's true.
[44:15.130 --> 44:15.850]  It's not true.
[44:15.950 --> 44:16.810]  It's not true.
[44:16.970 --> 44:23.150]  And what happens after 24 hours, you know, when, when your battery runs out, how do you recharge a battery when you don't have any power?
[44:23.570 --> 44:24.790]  There are so many questions here.
[44:24.890 --> 44:38.050]  The thing is, you know, we, we, we're given quote, unquote, the option to switch to Fios, but what they are doing with Verizon and other phone companies are doing is simply not maintaining the copper anymore and forcing you to switch when you don't want to.
[44:38.550 --> 44:44.030]  And yes, if you lose power for a lengthy period of time, you will now lose your phone lines.
[44:44.030 --> 44:45.810]  It's what we've been warning about for years.
[44:45.810 --> 44:47.890]  And, and it's, it's happening.
[44:48.090 --> 44:49.450]  We hear many reports of this.
[44:50.170 --> 45:00.870]  Yeah, well, I hope it's a topic that maybe you guys will even do maybe like a segment or something on it, because I was ignorant of this for many years, because I never gave a second thought.
[45:01.070 --> 45:06.310]  I always thought, you know, the copper line is slow, obviously, but it's there.
[45:06.470 --> 45:07.290]  It's always there.
[45:07.430 --> 45:08.390]  Now I got to worry.
[45:08.590 --> 45:12.170]  Anytime there's a blackout, my landline is going to go out.
[45:12.290 --> 45:16.750]  And fortunately I have a cell phone, but still it's the principle of the thing.
[45:16.870 --> 45:19.250]  You know, it was always there, like running water.
[45:19.730 --> 45:21.950]  Now you know that it's not going to be there.
[45:22.130 --> 45:25.070]  So I just, as I said, I want to put that out as a warning.
[45:25.410 --> 45:30.450]  And the Verizon person that spoke to me said, you can't go back to copper.
[45:30.690 --> 45:33.110]  He said, the copper lines are being phased out.
[45:33.250 --> 45:37.150]  So he said, you got to stick with Fios and just make the best of it.
[45:38.190 --> 45:42.710]  That, that is, that is how we enter into this new technological age.
[45:42.830 --> 45:44.890]  Just make the best of it and, and conform.
[45:45.370 --> 45:53.170]  And then he said, oh, and by the way, uh, we have this promotional offer, uh, Fios triple play, if you'd be interested in it.
[45:53.170 --> 45:56.590]  So it's like they don't address the problem.
[45:56.590 --> 45:59.010]  And then they try to sell you another service.
[45:59.210 --> 46:02.350]  So I just think Verizon really sucks.
[46:02.530 --> 46:09.250]  I know Microsoft sucks, but I just want to put in, uh, a corollary that Verizon sucks.
[46:09.590 --> 46:12.150]  I think almost as much, if not more than Microsoft.
[46:12.510 --> 46:14.310]  Oh, that's a, it's a stiff competition.
[46:14.650 --> 46:16.750]  And, uh, right now, I think you've got the edge.
[46:16.950 --> 46:17.230]  Thanks.
[46:17.410 --> 46:18.070]  Uh, thanks for that call.
[46:18.770 --> 46:19.190]  Thank you.
[46:19.270 --> 46:19.950]  Have a great night.
[46:19.950 --> 46:20.290]  You too.
[46:20.470 --> 46:20.870]  You too.
[46:21.050 --> 46:28.930]  And, you know, this is a perfect example of how you can, you can race into something new without thinking and wind up hurting yourself.
[46:29.630 --> 46:39.650]  Uh, copper wires work for some things and not good for other things, but to simply abandon a technology completely, um, you wind up paying for that.
[46:39.810 --> 46:48.450]  And, and the cost here is not having phone lines that can last for lengthy periods of time because central offices have batteries that can last for weeks, even months.
[46:48.750 --> 46:59.770]  But when you give that up by, uh, putting all the equipment in the consumer's home, it lasts for a shorter period of time, maybe, maybe a day if you're lucky, but certainly not a week, certainly not a month.
[46:59.910 --> 47:01.930]  And people do lose power for lengthy periods of time.
[47:02.010 --> 47:03.910]  It just happened here in the Northeast.
[47:03.910 --> 47:06.070]  People lost power for a week.
[47:06.210 --> 47:10.370]  Uh, after hurricanes, super storms, we've lost power for multiple weeks.
[47:10.850 --> 47:15.870]  Imagine not having the ability to communicate at all because your phone line is also down.
[47:16.230 --> 47:18.730]  Uh, I just wanted to mention, I think we had a story about this.
[47:18.850 --> 47:24.730]  I don't have it in front of me, but, uh, Verizon settled this week after an investigation, uh, in New York.
[47:24.890 --> 47:26.030]  Uh, here it is.
[47:26.110 --> 47:26.210]  Yeah.
[47:26.330 --> 47:33.330]  With, uh, the communication workers of America, uh, commenting on it, uh, saying this is a huge, huge win for consumers.
[47:33.730 --> 47:37.290]  So, uh, definitely if you're in New York state, um, this could be helping you.
[47:37.370 --> 47:46.050]  I think included in that was, uh, the replacement of, uh, 64,000 double telephone poles, which, uh, is also kind of related to PSEG.
[47:46.270 --> 47:50.510]  Uh, when those poles get retired by the electrical company, they'll cut them off.
[47:50.650 --> 48:03.270]  And if, um, the, uh, telecommunications and other, uh, service providers, cable television, et cetera, uh, including copper, um, telephone wine lines, uh, they just end up dangling there next to the new pole.
[48:03.530 --> 48:07.490]  And until they transfer those wires onto the new pole, you end up with two poles.
[48:07.670 --> 48:10.210]  So this was a part of a two year long investigation.
[48:10.810 --> 48:20.490]  And, um, it will, uh, also increase the saturation of broadband to more homes because, uh, I guess, uh, basically Verizon oversold.
[48:20.490 --> 48:25.550]  They talked a big game and they didn't really provide, uh, the kind of service that they had promised in New York.
[48:25.790 --> 48:35.030]  And, uh, people here won, uh, or at least, uh, there was a settlement and, um, we'll see if that, uh, ends up being something that is visible in people's neighborhoods.
[48:35.050 --> 48:41.870]  Yeah, but I doubt they're going to start maintaining the copper again and, and, and allowing people to hold on to it for as long as they want.
[48:41.930 --> 48:43.530]  There's just one mention of that.
[48:43.630 --> 48:47.830]  And it says, uh, Verizon will identify a hundred copper fed building locations in New York city.
[48:48.150 --> 49:01.990]  Um, and those individual buildings will, um, because of their high incidence of repair, quote, high incidence of repair, uh, and visits by technicians, they'll be retrofitted with fiber optics specifically other places.
[49:02.130 --> 49:16.010]  Um, it says, um, uh, the, the actual, um, copper network in some cases, I think will, uh, will be repaired, but it is not the solution in, in the lion's share of them as you, as you've said.
[49:16.130 --> 49:22.930]  Now, you know, I, I, I really am a strong believer that you should be able to, um, uh, use things in multiple manners.
[49:22.930 --> 49:24.350]  You should be able to go digital.
[49:24.590 --> 49:25.470]  You should be able to stay analog.
[49:25.650 --> 49:26.690]  It should be your choice.
[49:26.910 --> 49:36.730]  You know, I, I, I really miss the days of analog television broadcasts where you could, you know, DX and, and, and get signals from different distant cities on a good night.
[49:37.110 --> 49:39.850]  Um, that's gone now with, with the digital way.
[49:40.110 --> 49:46.230]  And, and it's a lot harder to pick up a signal, but this, this transcends to so many different pieces of technology.
[49:46.230 --> 49:50.850]  For instance, as we're mentioning phones, when's the last time you used a rotary phone?
[49:50.970 --> 49:51.710]  They still work.
[49:51.830 --> 49:56.410]  You can still use rotary pulse, but I can see people saying, who uses rotary pulse anymore?
[49:56.410 --> 49:57.950]  Why don't we just phase that out?
[49:58.290 --> 50:09.330]  Well, you know, there are times when, uh, what, for whatever reason, your touchtone dial or, or, or, or pad might stop working and you need to flash out a number by throwing the switch hook, you know, MacGyver style.
[50:09.750 --> 50:12.950]  Um, that is something, when's the last time you used a rotary pulse phone?
[50:13.110 --> 50:14.130]  Rob, do you remember?
[50:14.810 --> 50:21.190]  Uh, I, I might've, uh, tested out an old phone in my collection, maybe, uh, three, four years ago, but it's still worked.
[50:21.190 --> 50:22.090]  It did still work.
[50:22.170 --> 50:27.950]  And it's important that these things still continue to work while we continue to move on to bigger and better things.
[50:28.070 --> 50:28.190]  Yeah.
[50:28.210 --> 50:33.530]  People need to still, uh, uh, fight for these features if they're, um, if they're really benefiting from them.
[50:33.710 --> 50:38.170]  And, uh, yeah, cause in a, in the case of the modern system, you could just simply turn that off.
[50:38.310 --> 50:41.130]  It wouldn't be a big, um, you know, change in the infrastructure.
[50:41.130 --> 50:45.370]  It'd be maybe a checkbox or a line in a configuration script, but that's it.
[50:45.370 --> 50:45.990]  It's gone.
[50:46.190 --> 50:55.510]  You can't now use a certain type of, uh, electro, uh, mechanical, uh, uh, handset, which actually has better clarity in some cases.
[50:55.750 --> 51:04.390]  Uh, and, and, um, you know, is a part of the system being a hybrid or a bridge between different technology paradigms as they shift.
[51:04.550 --> 51:08.030]  Now we're kind of in a lot of wireless and, and all of that kind of stuff.
[51:08.310 --> 51:16.790]  But, um, yeah, the, the settlement, even that I was referencing, doesn't, you know, it, it doesn't really preserve copper the way it should.
[51:16.910 --> 51:17.670]  They win.
[51:17.790 --> 51:25.710]  They get, uh, to, um, you know, a little more time to deploy more fiber in the places where, uh, the state is saying, look, you didn't do anything.
[51:26.370 --> 51:34.090]  Um, honestly, I think, I think the, uh, copper infrastructure should be donated to, uh, the telephone pioneers or hackers in general.
[51:34.410 --> 51:38.230]  And, and I think it'd probably work better and sound better.
[51:38.450 --> 51:45.490]  Um, if, if a nonprofit ended up inheriting that system and let Verizon go on with their fiber, you know, go ahead.
[51:45.830 --> 51:54.310]  But, um, you know, people that really care about it and enthusiasts, I think could maintain it, uh, less, less maintenance if there are less consumers using it.
[51:54.530 --> 51:54.970]  That's for sure.
[51:55.090 --> 51:55.290]  Yeah.
[51:55.470 --> 52:03.850]  And, and I know that's kind of a, a, a tall order because there are cable vaults and, uh, you know, a lot of big pieces to that network, but it really is suffering.
[52:04.230 --> 52:09.790]  And, um, yeah, people then get hamstrung or they get these, these new solutions that don't really let them do what they want.
[52:09.870 --> 52:10.990]  I want to take another phone call, Rob quickly.
[52:11.190 --> 52:18.050]  And, uh, we know the people who suffer when, uh, when the switch is thrown on copper are the people who can least, are the people least able to deal with it.
[52:18.150 --> 52:25.030]  Uh, maybe older folks or people in rural areas who don't have access to digital service, people on the random blocks in this city that don't have access to Fios or anything.
[52:25.570 --> 52:25.970]  That's right.
[52:26.070 --> 52:26.370]  That's right.
[52:26.490 --> 52:26.670]  Okay.
[52:26.690 --> 52:27.450]  Let's take another phone call.
[52:27.510 --> 52:27.750]  Good evening.
[52:27.870 --> 52:28.350]  You're on off the hook.
[52:28.410 --> 52:28.610]  Go ahead.
[52:29.170 --> 52:29.490]  Yes.
[52:29.650 --> 52:29.890]  Okay.
[52:29.970 --> 52:35.990]  I think the answer to that fellow's problem with the Verizon phone is that I think now the phone line goes through the router.
[52:36.290 --> 52:39.990]  So once the router loses juice, that's the end of the phone too.
[52:40.370 --> 52:40.650]  Uh huh.
[52:40.950 --> 52:43.670]  I think that's the reason for that, but that's not why I call.
[52:43.770 --> 52:48.790]  We were talking about, uh, uh, information going to third parties, uh, last time around.
[52:48.970 --> 52:49.190]  Yes.
[52:49.470 --> 52:53.210]  And, um, so here's one I think, uh, might be of interest.
[52:54.010 --> 52:55.370]  Ancestry.com.
[52:55.370 --> 52:59.650]  They send, send you DNA and we'll trace your family.
[52:59.970 --> 53:02.150]  Where does that DNA go to the feds?
[53:02.250 --> 53:05.850]  Do the feds have access to that DNA if they want it?
[53:06.190 --> 53:06.430]  Yeah.
[53:06.610 --> 53:07.270]  Good question.
[53:07.890 --> 53:08.250]  Right.
[53:08.490 --> 53:14.250]  Or just the records that they, they come up with based on that DNA, uh, that could definitely be shared by all kinds of people.
[53:15.150 --> 53:15.590]  Exactly.
[53:15.910 --> 53:17.730]  So I thought I'd mention that.
[53:18.010 --> 53:18.250]  All right.
[53:18.270 --> 53:19.090]  Something else to worry about.
[53:19.210 --> 53:19.510]  Thanks.
[53:20.170 --> 53:20.450]  Okay.
[53:20.630 --> 53:21.030]  Take care.
[53:21.210 --> 53:21.970]  Appreciate it.
[53:22.150 --> 53:22.430]  Walter.
[53:22.730 --> 53:30.890]  Even scarier than the thought of them sharing with the feds, uh, the internet service allowed to them to share it with, um, commercial partners, which can include insurance companies.
[53:31.330 --> 53:31.330]  Yeah.
[53:31.330 --> 53:34.150]  So they can jack up your rates if you have, and claim like, like, oh yeah.
[53:34.490 --> 53:34.770]  Absolutely.
[53:35.330 --> 53:35.710]  Predisposition.
[53:36.010 --> 53:36.290]  Yeah.
[53:36.590 --> 53:39.270]  Health, healthcare, uh, providers and on down.
[53:39.430 --> 53:39.550]  Yeah.
[53:39.670 --> 53:43.050]  And the, the, um, implication is, is, uh, absolutely huge.
[53:43.270 --> 53:52.730]  Uh, and you know, now legally, uh, as a, uh, if you're taken into custody, yeah, um, DNA can be, uh, given, uh, or, or relinquished as a part of processing.
[53:52.990 --> 54:01.850]  But, um, you know, it's, it's, uh, a whole different story if you can relinquish an entire database of it, um, that people have just basically given and as a commercial, uh, enterprise.
[54:02.030 --> 54:05.830]  Fast forward a few years and, uh, a lot of what we're saying will likely become true.
[54:06.310 --> 54:07.250]  Let's take another phone call.
[54:07.330 --> 54:07.650]  Good evening.
[54:07.750 --> 54:08.450]  You're on off the hook.
[54:08.530 --> 54:08.770]  Go ahead.
[54:09.570 --> 54:10.430]  Hi, off the hook.
[54:10.650 --> 54:12.290]  Uh, yeah, ancestry.com.
[54:12.430 --> 54:13.630]  They own everything you send in.
[54:14.290 --> 54:16.110]  They own your, your, your DNA then.
[54:16.150 --> 54:16.590]  That's it.
[54:16.710 --> 54:17.970]  You, you sign a release form.
[54:18.270 --> 54:18.630]  Wow.
[54:19.270 --> 54:21.910]  Uh, well then I guess we just have to wait and see what they do with it.
[54:23.190 --> 54:23.670]  That's it.
[54:23.850 --> 54:30.490]  And I also want to, I don't know if you guys mentioned with all the, uh, pledging and everything, the, uh, passing of John Perry Barlow.
[54:30.750 --> 54:32.350]  Yes, it was just for the Grateful Dead.
[54:32.510 --> 54:34.430]  We did mention that EFF founder.
[54:34.630 --> 54:34.930]  Uh huh.
[54:35.130 --> 54:37.270]  We, we, we talked about that a few shows ago.
[54:37.370 --> 54:37.570]  Yes.
[54:37.950 --> 54:38.190]  Okay.
[54:38.250 --> 54:38.870]  I missed that show.
[54:38.990 --> 54:39.190]  Yeah.
[54:39.590 --> 54:40.550]  Uh, you'd be interested though.
[54:40.710 --> 54:46.370]  If, uh, I don't know if you, you have access to our archives and we interviewed him many years ago in the 1990s and it was really good interview.
[54:46.890 --> 54:47.970]  I'll have to look for that.
[54:48.130 --> 54:48.450]  Yes.
[54:48.790 --> 54:50.890]  And how do I get my car hacker's handbook?
[54:50.990 --> 54:52.150]  I pledged for back in June.
[54:52.530 --> 54:53.010]  Oh boy.
[54:53.210 --> 54:53.370]  Really?
[54:53.490 --> 54:54.370]  You still haven't gotten that.
[54:54.790 --> 54:55.110]  Um, nope.
[54:55.230 --> 54:56.330]  And the book of essays.
[54:56.530 --> 54:56.690]  Okay.
[54:56.850 --> 54:57.130]  Email.
[54:57.270 --> 54:59.670]  And I play, I pledged right away with a credit card.
[55:00.070 --> 55:01.810]  I, you know, it's, um, okay.
[55:02.130 --> 55:04.750]  Uh, email us OTH at 2600.com.
[55:04.870 --> 55:07.430]  Give us your details and, uh, we'll pursue that.
[55:07.430 --> 55:13.950]  And that goes for anybody else, uh, who has not received premiums from any, any, uh, drive before the one that just ended.
[55:14.070 --> 55:16.210]  So the one that just ended is the winter drive.
[55:16.610 --> 55:26.170]  If you were, if you're waiting for anything from a drive prior to that, within reason, don't go back 10 years, uh, within the last year or so, let us know and we will do our, our, our very best.
[55:26.350 --> 55:26.350]  Yeah.
[55:26.370 --> 55:32.150]  But we need to know about it to be able to, we might be able to help you, but if we don't know about it, we, we, we don't have the information.
[55:32.290 --> 55:35.270]  We, we can't track it down and it really gets a lot harder.
[55:35.390 --> 55:36.990]  The, the longer, the more time is.
[55:37.090 --> 55:37.190]  Yeah.
[55:37.310 --> 55:40.770]  Thanks for telling us and just email us the details and we will, we will figure this out.
[55:41.290 --> 55:41.650]  Okay.
[55:41.830 --> 55:43.490]  And thanks for keeping us informed out here.
[55:43.650 --> 55:43.990]  Of course.
[55:44.290 --> 55:44.910]  It's what we do.
[55:45.010 --> 55:45.270]  Thank you.
[55:46.070 --> 55:47.190]  Uh, might have time for one more.
[55:47.650 --> 55:49.210]  Maybe if somebody is dialing fast.
[55:49.530 --> 55:50.650]  Um, it's good to hear from our listeners.
[55:50.770 --> 55:50.890]  Yeah.
[55:50.970 --> 55:52.570]  A lot of good letters, a lot of good phone calls.
[55:52.690 --> 55:54.770]  I'm really, um, thrilled to hear from people this week.
[55:54.890 --> 55:58.270]  If you don't get through, you can write to us, OTH at 2600.com.
[55:58.550 --> 56:01.790]  And of course our Twitter account is ready for you to tweet at us, hacker radio show.
[56:02.270 --> 56:02.810]  Good evening.
[56:02.830 --> 56:03.690]  You're on off the hook.
[56:03.790 --> 56:04.050]  Go ahead.
[56:04.810 --> 56:05.950]  Hey, good evening guys.
[56:06.090 --> 56:13.430]  I had a call about the copper because I'm the guy that got cut off in Fairhaven, New Jersey back in June.
[56:13.590 --> 56:13.730]  Remember?
[56:14.050 --> 56:14.510]  Oh yes.
[56:14.710 --> 56:15.310]  They paid my bill.
[56:15.430 --> 56:16.230]  They cut me off.
[56:16.470 --> 56:16.810]  Uh huh.
[56:17.030 --> 56:31.670]  I didn't have a phone for two months, you know, and then trying on them hundred degree days to call the number, you know, doing tree service work, you're soaking wet to call a number to get somebody to come over to straighten it out.
[56:32.370 --> 56:40.130]  But what it is, is the president, the CEO of Verizon, uh, McAdam, Lloyd McAdam.
[56:40.510 --> 56:46.210]  I think the guy's making like, I forget the salary, but it's in the millions every year, you know?
[56:46.510 --> 56:46.810]  Okay.
[56:47.270 --> 56:51.230]  But, you know, we work with Verizon workers in storms and stuff like that.
[56:51.450 --> 56:54.050]  They're, they're trying to cut their benefits pay.
[56:54.170 --> 56:55.210]  That's why they went on strike.
[56:55.790 --> 57:04.310]  But Verizon, I gotta say, with his fires, immediately after they take your, I was the last one in town.
[57:04.710 --> 57:06.650]  So they cut my copper off.
[57:06.750 --> 57:08.150]  I come home, the phone's dead.
[57:08.430 --> 57:09.970]  I got a cell phone, right?
[57:10.430 --> 57:14.050]  But I worked for forest fire service who were on call, and I told them that.
[57:14.270 --> 57:15.490]  But they don't care.
[57:15.870 --> 57:16.090]  Wow.
[57:16.090 --> 57:17.570]  They cut the phone off.
[57:17.830 --> 57:21.450]  One of my asphalt chippers was stolen from a farm where I was working.
[57:21.570 --> 57:22.690]  Nobody could get ahold of me.
[57:23.030 --> 57:25.050]  So I lost a nice tree chipper.
[57:25.770 --> 57:29.650]  Uh, it's up in, um, it's up North Jersey somewhere.
[57:29.690 --> 57:31.090]  I'm going to find it one of these days.
[57:31.750 --> 57:36.190]  But, um, they don't care about their workers, and they don't care about their customers one bit.
[57:36.650 --> 57:37.310]  They're worse.
[57:37.470 --> 57:40.910]  They're probably just as bad as 45 in the White House, if I could say so.
[57:41.090 --> 57:41.510]  Wow.
[57:41.750 --> 57:42.030]  Okay.
[57:42.130 --> 57:43.730]  Well, that, that is something to end on.
[57:43.730 --> 57:55.130]  That has really, uh... When I hear the copper, I got a call because in every storm we've had on the Jersey coast where we've been out of electricity and everything for over a month, the phone never stopped ringing.
[57:55.890 --> 57:56.170]  Yes.
[57:56.170 --> 57:58.710]  But with this fire, you'll lose it within a day or two.
[57:58.790 --> 57:59.190]  Absolutely.
[57:59.470 --> 58:00.690]  And that is a real concern.
[58:00.690 --> 58:01.790]  It will cost lives.
[58:02.030 --> 58:03.270]  Listen, we are out of time.
[58:03.510 --> 58:04.350]  Well, they don't care.
[58:04.490 --> 58:05.730]  They don't care about lives.
[58:05.850 --> 58:07.450]  We're going to have to leave it at that, unfortunately.
[58:07.450 --> 58:08.970]  But we will continue talking about this.
[58:09.070 --> 58:10.650]  Thanks, uh, thanks for telling us that.
[58:10.810 --> 58:12.290]  Thanks for, uh, sharing your story.
[58:12.630 --> 58:14.990]  And thanks to everybody else who, uh, has been trying to get through.
[58:15.090 --> 58:17.550]  Again, write to us, O-T-H at twenty-six-hundred dot com.
[58:17.890 --> 58:21.730]  Uh, and we're going to have to, uh, end the pi recitation at this point.
[58:21.870 --> 58:23.570]  Four, five, nine, five, six... Nope.
[58:23.730 --> 58:23.890]  Sorry.
[58:24.310 --> 58:26.230]  Uh, and Rob, we have something special to go out on.
[58:26.310 --> 58:27.110]  What, what, what is this?
[58:27.250 --> 58:28.270]  We do, um... Sorry.
[58:28.430 --> 58:28.650]  We do.
[58:28.750 --> 58:31.430]  It's as a, as a final goodbye to Professor Hawking.
[58:31.670 --> 58:35.350]  This is Professor Hawking himself, uh, covering a song by Monty Python.
[58:35.350 --> 58:36.490]  All right.
[58:37.170 --> 58:38.210]  We'll see you next week.
[59:06.820 --> 59:10.500]  That's orbiting at 19 miles a second, so it's reckoned.
[59:10.760 --> 59:13.300]  The sun that is the source of all our power.
[59:14.600 --> 59:21.340]  The sun and you and me and all the stars that we can see are moving at a million miles a day.
[59:22.540 --> 59:29.180]  In an outer spiral arm at 400,000 miles an hour in a galaxy we call the Milky Way.
[59:38.490 --> 59:42.090]  Our galaxy itself contains 500 billion stars.
[59:42.090 --> 59:45.290]  It's 100,000 light years side to side.
[59:46.110 --> 59:53.270]  It bulges in the middle, 6,000 light years thick, but not by us it's just 1,000 light years wide.
[59:54.090 --> 59:57.930]  We're 30,000 light years from galactic central point.
[59:58.170 --> 01:00:01.210]  We go round every 200 billion years.
[01:00:01.730 --> 01:00:08.770]  And our galaxy is only one of millions of billions in this amazing and expanding universe.
[01:00:41.840 --> 01:00:49.160]  The universe itself keeps on expanding and expanding in all of the directions it can whisk.
[01:00:49.920 --> 01:00:53.770]  As fast as it can go, at the speed of life you know.
[01:00:54.200 --> 01:00:57.920]  Twelve million miles a minute and that's the fastest speed there is.
[01:00:57.920 --> 01:01:05.020]  So remember when you're feeling very small and insecure, how amazingly unlikely is your birth.
[01:01:05.750 --> 01:01:12.790]  And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere out in space, cause there's stronger all down here on earth.
[01:01:12.790 --> 01:01:13.100]  And this is the first sentence.