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You're listening to radio station WBAI New York the time is eight o'clock time once again for another edition of off the hook
They would
I
The very good evening sir by the program is off the hook Emanuel Goldstein here with you joined tonight by
Kyle
Hey, what's up? Where's everybody?
Who?
Usually are here everyone nobody was able to make it through the snow again
You know
There's nobody on the subways, okay, there's nobody in the streets everybody stayed home. It's just a little snow
It really is just a little snow. We have to drive through this 60 miles through
Craziness more than that sometimes depending on where we are and and you know, we it's it's we're here
Here we are and I feel good being here, but I guess I guess it's just us. It's not for everybody
It's just us and I guess we'll take phone calls. So it's it's you the listener as well
Well, that's about the hacker world and what's going on more room for for our listeners. And yeah, we could even
We could add people and we it's a special guest just dropped in dent. How you doing? Hello Wow
Fancy meeting you here. The last time we heard your voice on the air
I believe was also the first time I heard your voice on the air back in and was it January of
2017 when there were Trump demonstrate anti-trump demonstrations going on all throughout the planet
I think it was a little earlier actually. Oh, maybe it was right before
After he got elected you're right, right Wow, so November of 2016 boy. Yeah, how'd you been? I've been good
Yeah, well, he's still in power, you know, yeah, I mean
That's still a problem. Thanks for the warning though
I mean, we're glad that you were there and you were telling everybody on the street, you know, this is what's going on
Yeah, well, there's there's another March coming up on Saturday
Well, we're gonna talk about this since we have all this extra time now
And and it's not necessarily per se anti-trump, although Trump is pretty much making it anti-trump by saying stupid things
It's the March for our lives. There's there's one in Manhattan. There's one in Brooklyn
They're all over the place is 800 of them around the country. Of course is the big one in Washington DC
I'm not sure which one we're going to go to yet
but
Dante you have any any idea which one you're gonna go to there's plenty to choose from but the main one is on
Pennsylvania Avenue in Washington DC, so I'm hoping I'll get to go to go to that one
Yeah, well, it's going to be it's gonna be a challenge to get there because I don't know if all the trains are sold out
I don't know if there are buses. I don't know if you can drive
I'm sure there are people that are working out all those all those possibilities
but it's one of those events that you remember for the rest of your life and
If you're thinking of going to any of them folks, I can't recommend it enough
This of course was spurred by the tragic events and in Parkland, Florida
but also the the inspiration that came from that when high school kids stood up to being told they had no voice and
Well, you're a high school kid. Aren't you dent? I am a high school kid
So, how does how can how does this fly in your you don't to give out your high school?
But in your high school, how does this kind of empowerment being received?
Well, it's certainly a different dynamic
We always did shooting drills, but we never really thought much of it
And now we're actually there's part of us that's scared during these drills and and to see that
It's it's a really scary thing. And so I think students are unifying and realizing that there is power in numbers
So wait, let me see. I guess I can I can say that you go to school here in New York City somewhere
And you have shooting drills, but what's that like?
Well if we're I usually have them when I'm in the cafeteria and
They tell us all to duck behind the tables and stay quiet
Some kids who aren't quiet their IDs are taken away and they're punished. So just like in a real shooting
That's just like in a real shooting Wow
so, okay, so what they did they give you a warning that there's going to be a shooting drill or
Somebody just say bang bang and you guys got to act the way you supposed to act. There's not much talk about it
There's just an intercom voice that says it's we're doing a lockdown
So when we're in the classroom, there'll be people knocking at the doors and we're not supposed to open the doors
It's really quite so who gets to do that who gets to run down the hall and knock on doors where there's terrified kids inside
Yeah, I'm not it sounds like a vice-principal job. And then what happens if someone opens the door it says bang
I just killed you and you fail. Yeah, that's not a step we've taken yet
But it's a it's certainly looking like it's going in that direction
Okay. Now, let me ask you this
You're a high school kid. You are aware that this is not normal, right?
Does everybody just assume this is normal? No, I mean, I think the whole nation is shocked just by the past year
What's what's been happening in this country? So I think but this is more than just a year
This has been going on for a couple of decades now
Yeah, the word lockdown used to only be used in prisons and now it's being used everywhere
yeah, everyone knows what it means and we're living our lives like we all live in a prison and
I just wonder does the younger generation of today realize how messed up that is
Yeah, I mean, I think we're being desensitized to it just because it's happening so much more
So I think the same sort of thing happened in the 50s with nuclear war drills in that generation experienced that
So I think we're also experiencing something of a similar sort duck and cover and we might have those come back to if things keep going
The way they're going you'd be under your desk with your hands over your head and that's going to prevent you from nuclear annihilation
Yeah, it's the lesson we learned from the 50s
It is it's so interesting that it is it's a form of learning like what is this teaching you that is sort of?
Happening on the periphery, you know, like what do you learn from this as it's sort of normalized and they
You know insist that you cooperate and do things the quote right way
in these drills, but
You know, it's teaching so much about the kind of society we have the kind of problems
We have what we define as problems in our society
And this has been so inspiring because the students are flipping what the concern is
it's always been a huge effort after an event like this to
Take the concern and make sure it's anything but the actual
Machines that are doing these things but here the students are saying no. No. No, it's not it's not
Us and it's not the people involved necessarily
It is this culture and these weapons these machines that are inflicting so much in and are so unforgiving. I
Just want to read one of the paragraphs and people can go to the website March for our lives calm
there
Just a brief statement on their site basically says not one more
We cannot allow one more child to be shot at school
We cannot allow one more teacher to make a choice to jump in front of a firing assault rifle to save the lives of students
You cannot allow one more family to wait for a call or a text that never comes
Our schools are unsafe. Our children and teachers are dying. We must make it our top priority to save these lives
Wow
Well now March for our lives will be taking place this Saturday. I know WBA I will be covering it
as well many
Many stations the one in New York that I can see here is taking part Central Park West West 72nd Street
starting at 10 a.m.
and
That's the rally begins at 11 a.m. That's again West 72nd Street Central Park West
that's where the
People start gathering beginning at 10 a.m. Others. There's others too. There's there's one in Brooklyn. Hang on. We find the address for that
And there's also
One in Staten Island, but okay in Brooklyn. It's at Coney Island Boardwalk surf and Stillwell Avenue
That starts at 11 a.m
Staten Island 10 Richmond Terrace Staten Island Borough Hall that starts at 9 a.m
They always wake up early in Staten Island, Newark, New Jersey 93 Park Place ironically enough at Military Park
and
Hackensack 10 Main Street the Bergen County Courthouse and that takes place at
10 a.m. And did I mention the time for the Newark one that was at 10 a.m
As well, and of course the one in Washington DC that's taking place. I
Imagine starting at 10 a.m. Maybe even earlier in Washington DC and you can find more information about that March for our lives comm
So yeah, we figured we'd mention that since we have a high school kid with us today and it's of great concern
How do you classmates?
Feel about this. Do you have debates or there are people pretty much unified? I think most of the school is unified
we still have some right-wing students, but
Usually debates happen and I think that's a good thing debates happen between right wingers and left wingers
Within school and usually left wingers are outnumbering them
And I think we're just now realizing that we're actually going to be able to vote in 2020 and we can change the problems that are
Occurring now. Yeah, I was just noticing on this site. There's a link for
registering to vote
So it's under the action section. It says vote for our lives
And yeah
I've got a little section in there where if you're interested in registering so that you can when you're able to
it's already been done and
Yeah, you won't have to scramble to
Be registered, right? Okay. It really is a coalescing of resources. It's so cool to see it's very inspirational
even if you don't agree, I imagine people would be inspired just by seeing this this
Incredible groundswell and so many affinity groups around this issue that have been created from one
Incident or another over the years are really coming together as a unified force without
sort of
Disintegrating from that many interests in
behind one movement which shows the
Consistency of the message. I think the inability of it to be co-opted which has been a real concern
I think for the students leading it and I think also, you know, even if you're right-wing
I don't think it's necessarily something that you would have to disagree with this. I think there are plenty of people who are
Republicans who think things have gone on
Way to way too far
AR 15s and assault weapons of various sorts
Have no place in our society
On the battleground perhaps if you believe in that kind of thing
But I I know plenty of gun enthusiasts who have a more common-sense approach to this. Yeah, I
Don't think it's an anti Trump rally. It's definitely anti gun violence. Mm-hmm
And that's something that I think most of us can agree on. Yeah would be nice and
You know the the notion that you need more guns to solve gun violence
More guns is how we got here in the first place. Let's not forget that
Okay, we'll talk about this some more we'll take some listen to phone calls if you have any questions or things that you'd like us
to
to
Give out as well. We're happy to do that. But we also have other news to to cover this week
in the hacker world
Adrian limo and if you've heard the news, but the the hacker who became very
detested in the hacker world because he he basically was responsible for
the imprisonment of Chelsea Manning
Thinking he was doing the right thing by
by turning her in
and
I think paying the price for it for the rest of his life, which
Unfortunately came to an end last week
And we don't have information as to what the circumstances were
And I know there's been a variety of reaction to it
but I can't help but feel that this is a somber event regardless of how you
You feel about what Adrian did
Adrian spoke at our hope conference a few years ago where basically he was confronted
Myself fiber-optic Kevin Mitnick Bernie s all on this panel and a crowd of thousands of people
Kind of all angry at him for for the actions. He had taken in the past and before that he had been a hacker that
had a pretty good reputation for
various
Accomplishments hacking the New York Times or Yahoo come to mind
And then then we find out about that that happened this last week and it's
It's just something that I still haven't completely processed and I was hoping that one day he would redeem himself that one day
We would be able to have a conversation again
and and you know
Who's to say if he realized he made a mistake or if he doubled down and said no I would do it again
I know there are people who supported his actions. I know there are plenty of people who did not
but anytime you lose a voice, I think it's it's sad and
deserving of
some kind of recognition
And I think for the most part people in the hacker community get that there have been a few displays
WikiLeaks for one that have not
Handled
The situation with any respect whatsoever and I think even you know someone that you disagree with someone that
even if you detest them you still
Show them some
Some respect in a situation like this
Yeah, I'm kind of with you. I feel like there was a lot of mystery initially because there were so few details and
really was
Just in the first couple hours of hearing this news a lot of people were just trying to figure out what what the information what?
Happened, what was the circumstance? Nobody really knew where?
Adrian was he was pretty mysterious
Up until his death. I think he kept a pretty I don't know low-profile had his circle of friends and so on and
yeah, it was a bit of a shock for me and a
A little just peculiar very sudden very very sudden and we as you said, we still don't have a lot of the details about that
Death in particular, but you know, I'm sure we'll find out more as his family is is
able to cope and and get more information themselves, but the gravedancing I think is
It's unnecessary. I mean, I I wasn't I
Don't know where I want to jump into the the issue that he was known for in our circles too much
But you know, he had some support at our event. It was
You know, there was some cheering and stuff for him and we have to we have to acknowledge that there are people who do not
agree with our perspective
And they are a part of the community as well, you know, and I I had a lot of friends
You know back in the Northwest and also just in other circles
That felt very strongly about Julian, you know and and felt that you know
They had a number of you know, women female friends that had had less than I guess the word was kosher
experiences with him
And so there's there's you know, a lot of people that didn't necessarily come out and say that they supported Adrian
but there was there was no shortage of people that were very skeptical about what Julian was doing and
and Brad Chelsea Bradley Manning at the time was as a part of that in the
Collateral murder video that was released and really what what led to WikiLeaks really becoming a
household name so
despite the the
the stance it I I know there are people out there that you know, really really support him and
There are others who
Felt quite the opposite. There were a lot of people during the event that felt he was a pariah and an opportunist and
you know really had awful things to say at the time and and probably up until a couple weeks ago, but
I'm proud of us. I think our community
I went back and watched the panel that you you mentioned and I really am glad that he did have an opportunity to speak
It was you know again, it wouldn't necessarily I think have been my choice
But he even addressed that when he spoke he said, you know
You don't know what you would do
when someone says they have a hundred thousand or this many documents and that was a lot of the gist of
No, that is one thing that I have said many many years because back when I got into trouble decades ago
I was surprised by the way
Some people reacted and some people reacted in very strange ways. In other words, there were volunteer information
to
to incriminate me
and
you know your initial your initial response to something like that is to
Condemn them and say why would you do something like that?
But you know, you don't really know what kind of fear and panic is put into people by seeing somebody
Get involved with something that is potentially huge and they might get dragged along with you
And maybe they have a family a house something they're trying to protect
You don't know how you are going to react unless you're faced with that. It's easy to condemn it. It's easy to say
You should not do this
but
You know in the situation that that I went through I saw people acting in ways that I didn't think they would act
And I can't say for sure I mean, I I think I know how I would react under certain situations
But I can't put that on other people. But again, don't be too proud. I mean, there's I
think a lot
To the exact scenario that that people would even dispute in how he went about doing that, you know misrepresenting
The kind of confidence you can ensure
In a conversation, I know the chat logs and so on with Bradley now Chelsea Manning at the time
were some something that leaked out and that you know people were talking about having been redacted and all this this kind of
Sort of hair splitting over, you know his
I guess how he came to be in a position to have this person confiding in him. Was he you know
Leading them to just divulge this or was he just
coincidentally in the in the right place
those are the kinds of questions that we were able to ask and
it was our conference that took took a little bit of I
Guess the you know opposite stance and was not popular. Definitely. You can hear it in the audience if people go back and listen to that
panel
But we would have been less than had we not been able to have that discussion
People wouldn't have been able to raise those points and ask the same questions
That I I was kind of throwing into the conversation here and again, it wouldn't be my choice
But that was his point is that not everyone
you know has the same calculation when presented with a situation like that and you know, that's something that is important and and I
think the other people on the panel were able to tie that into how it is affected hacking over the arc of
hacking as a thing
And and how prevalent it it is
people divulging things they shouldn't be talking about or accessing things that they know shouldn't necessarily
Be able to access and then you know having a big big
Sort of gloating session or or maybe being fearful and then thinking someone is is
Able to protect you when you you really should be, you know talking to an actual lawyer or something, you know
You you've stumbled upon something that's much bigger than than you realize
you know, those are those are skills that I think a lot of hackers have learned through
Through missteps over the years. Well
The talk that Kyle's referring to is called informants villains or heroes and you can find it on our YouTube channel
which is channel 2600 look for the next hope which is 2010 and
that's when we
had this big kind of
intervention
confrontation
it it really
It was a fascinating 90 minutes there and something I think was quite historic. So
That's that's how I'd like to remember Adrian as somebody who at least had the guts to face all his critics
and I mean all of them were there and
I
Hope we can continue to the the conversation the discussion. Yeah, and I just hope that you know people that
didn't agree with what he did or
You know really detest him. I hope that you know, they can
They can hope that he rests in peace as I think many of us are
Wishing and then would wish on anyone
Regardless of what they've done in their lives
Okay, so that was that was kind of a major event this this past week in the world of hacking
Of course, there are other things going on as well. Hey check this out the
10 million players in in the UK are being told to change their national lottery
Passwords as attackers hit online accounts. Wait, you have a password. Yeah, that's the thing. That's so weird
Why would you have a password to to a lottery millions of national lottery players? This is a culture
I've never gotten involved in so I know very little about it
they've been urged to change their passwords following what parent company Camelot describes as
Suspicious activity involving lottery accounts. There's so much suspicious activity in that paragraph. I don't even know where to begin
Wait, it's Camelot from Robin Hood
It's yes something like that, but they've run the national lottery
They insist there's been no access to core systems or databases that would affect lottery draws or prizes
But they recommended as 10.5 million registered users change their passwords following a number of unauthorized
Logins now a Camelot spokesperson. I'm sorry. That just sounds so silly a Camelot spokesperson
Said the account breaches are thought to be the result of credential stuffing a type of cyber attack
Where previously stolen account details are entered into other websites in the hope that the victim uses the same username and password
Yeah, so if you find, you know when you're hacking into
The lottery then you might want to try on someone's cable bill or something
See if they use the same password and then you have access to that
Now it basically means the affected national lottery users have previously had their details stolen elsewhere and shared among cyber criminals
In an email sent to registered users Camelot said it uncovered suspicious activity on some accounts as part of regular security
Monitoring now cyber attackers are believed to have gained access to up to 150 accounts. Wait, that's it 150 accounts. Well, you know in this country
When when you have your credit file access, it's with like another 150 million in people
So this is nothing. This is really nothing but
Enough for them to to notify the people I suppose
Notify them because
Their gambling account is not functional. Uh-huh, and they need to establish new credentials for their gambling account
I I guess I'd still know I need a password for this. I really don't know how it works
but you know what, I think this is it's like those video gambling systems you see sometimes or
You know the I don't know we often see them in cities that sometimes like it just a
Like a line of slots or some kind of yeah booth where you
Submitted bed and then you watch it on the TVs and great fun
there's really just a bunch of guys in there like drinking beers and smoking cigarettes and
Stuffing money into machines and stuff the things people do for fun, but maybe this Camelot
Maybe it's like a brand of video gambling machine that then you bring your login. This makes no sense
That makes no sense at all. I'm tired of making up a hypothetical to make their business model
So move on to a better story. How about travel site orbits, which as we all know is owned by Expedia
Said a legacy travel booking platform was likely hacked last year likely hacked. They think it may have been hacked
But we're not sure
Yeah, who knows something something old that no one's supposed to use anymore
And and close to two years of customer data was exposed and the company disclosed the hack yesterday
Saying it discovered earlier this month that a hacker may have infiltrated the platform between October and December of last year
orbit said the hacker access customer names birthdates physical and email addresses and
Credit card information for customers who made purchases between January 2016 and December 2017
It's you know quite a quite a bit of time there
Orbits added that it is identified and remediated the incident which affected
880,000 customer payment cards now that's more like it
Orbit said it has not found evidence that the hacker downloaded anyone's personal information from the platform. But wait a minute
there's no evidence that anything was downloaded, but
They say the hacker accessed customer names birthdates physical email addresses and credit card information
For customers making purchases over a two-year period
Those two statements don't necessarily line up in my in my eyes
Did somebody access this or did they not if they didn't download it? Yeah, okay
It doesn't mean they still didn't have access to it in one way or another
So it seems like they they're trying to get it both ways here
Anyway, the company says it has enhanced security of the compromised platform meaning they probably just turned it off made it not accessible anymore
And the current website was not involved. So I don't know
You know, it's one of these stories is a good news or bad news. It's hard to tell so
Can you read that section again?
They did not verify if any of the data had been taken by anybody, but it was honest it was available
They say a hacker, of course, you know, they don't know what the person does for hobbies
It could have been an auto mechanic. You don't know. It's right. Basically you leave your system wide open. Anybody can access it
Not just hackers. Yeah, but basically they say this hacker accessed all this private information for a two-year period but somehow
There's no indication that
Anyone downloaded anything?
So they're saying nothing happened and a lot happened. Yeah, that gives them a really wide range of like
Incident management or like they're like crisis mitigation, you know, it could be really big or it could be nothing
Yeah, how many how many customer names were access tell us that you know, they're saying something like eight hundred eighty thousand customer payment cards are affected
Okay, but how many if you know what this person did how many did this person access you say they didn't download anything?
Where's the story here?
What do they do then and the proverbial hacker on his bed is is a lot like like that's a distinct
viewer of that data than perhaps a
Corporate entity or private entity or an organization of some kind
Criminal or not, you know, maybe they
Are the ones that viewed it they would have much different I think
Attitudes towards using and how to exploit that data than the hacker on a bed that's you know
Just breaking into things errantly, you know seeing what he can come up with just from a hotel or something
And I know that they can come up with quite a bit
I mean, I would want way more detail, you know, I mean, it's what are we dealing with here?
If my info is in there, I would want to know like was that a state actor was that
You know
Hackers kind of a catch-all. It just sounds like bad guy. Well, okay
There there may be there may be a story that that you like a little better than this
Yes, it's it's part of our hack of the week
that somehow fell off the show while we were gone and now it's back and
Tonight we have a hack of the week
Not me I didn't hack anything. Are you sure about that? I'm positive. All right. Well, I'm the hack of the week. I'm here to learn
see
When when we started this?
That's enough. Thank you when we started this
It was it was our hacks were things that we did now
We expanded a little bit because while we just are too busy right now
But apparently modern yachts are now vulnerable to hackers, that's that's the latest target
So that's our hack of the week is is modern
You're just kind of a general thing
Anything that is considered to be modern these days is usually equipped with the latest high-tech devices
We can agree on that
Of course, these devices are connected to the Internet the center of all potential threats now according to the latest findings
Modern yachts contain a pack of Internet of Things devices and this pack consists of switches and routers
which have an Internet connection and therefore can easily be hacked and
Thanks to their ability to connect to the Internet through featured devices yachts are facing potential security problems
That's due to various technical factors unprotected Internet connections navigation
Infotainment systems are usually connected to the same network as other yachts
technologies feature
Some were developed before modern security standards, so they might not completely cope
So basically the statement from this is that yachts generally have a vulnerable onboard network and
And that network can include everything from GPS radar
autopilot vessel traffic service all kinds of different control systems
They contain cameras engine control monitoring depth sounders and more all
Features of the yachts network are connected through a bus based on the plug-and-play and M E a standards
Electronic yacht tools are not constantly connected to the Internet. However, even when they are offline
There is still a risk of a potential hacker attack. These potential threats include problems such as
GPS jamming AI and GPS spoofing some have already happened
So if you're on a yacht or you think of getting a yacht
This is something to worry about because we're here to bring you more things to worry about. I
Don't I don't know if
The yachting set are really
People we should be too sympathetic for I mean, they should just you know, get another couple of routers and switches
Let's say you're you're in a bay or something and you're just minding your own business
Swimming and the yachts out of control heading right towards you because somebody hacked it now
Do you think maybe that's something you should panic about?
Right, but I still don't have sympathy, you know, their yacht is is unsecure
I mean, uh-huh, but it does speak to design being
Really about getting things done adding features making it something you can sell as a
product but
The entirety of the security as an afterthought. All right. Well, let's talk about cryptocurrency then
Department of Citrus employee was arrested at a
What a Department of Citrus employee they have that in Florida Department of Citrus. Yes
Really? That's the thing
Wow, I just rolled right over that without even thinking what I was saying Department of Citrus employee, okay
We'll come back to that. He was arrested after he used state computers to produce virtual currency for himself
That's according to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement. I've heard of them. I've heard of that department
yes, Matthew McDermott of Davenport was the
information technology manager for the Florida Department of Citrus
Wow
The agency that oversees the state's citrus industry. Yeah, I got that part. Thank you. Thank you AP
According to FDLE agents. He used several computers in the Department of Citrus to mine for virtual currency, which include Bitcoin and litecoin
a mining pool or team is used to solve mathematical equations in an effort to mine the virtual currency and win a
Reward they say the pool combines its resources to help offset costs. Well, that's kind of what happens but
Basically a mining for cryptocurrency requires extensive computing power utility bills for the department
Jumped by more than 40% between October 2017 and January 2017
Wait, how do you do that?
They're going backwards if they go between October 2017 and January 2017
Okay at a cost of about eight hundred and twenty five dollars
That's that's what their entire utility bill was for the the Department of Citrus eight hundred twenty five dollars. That's not bad
That's not that bad Wow
McDermott also spent more than twenty two thousand dollars using a state purchasing card between July and December
I'm not sure what years those are between July 2017 and December 1942
Who knows but that's that seems like more of a story right there that he used a state purchasing card and for?
buying graphic processing units
24 of them and those are often used to mine for cryptocurrencies charged with grand theft official misconduct
Taking the Polk County Jail bail set $5,000 and that's pretty much enough numbers for tonight
Wow
Yeah, so that's what's happening
Hey
We said we were gonna take phone calls and we intend to do that because we are talking about all kinds of issues tonight
Including the March for our lives coming up in just a few days
Saturday to be the 24th the 24th of March
So if you want to talk to us you want to ask us any questions about that or anything else?
So if you have information to provide our phone number is
347 3 3 5 0 8 1 8 that's the 3 4 7 area code, which some people don't know is a thing
3 3 5 0 8 1 8 country code 1 if you're outside the United States, let's take our first phone call
Good evening. You're on off the hook
Hello, go ahead. Okay
Talking about yachts online
Some refrigerators are online. Yes refrigerators are online
You're right, right
And if you want to find some refrigerators that are online you go to show down dot IO
Do you know about that site? Tell us tell I've heard of it, but tell us all about it
All right, if you search for it's a search engine for vulnerability
Mm-hmm. So if I wanted to find some refrigerators online, I would type
Gbck, I forgot how why that's the the thing that type but if you type
Gbck press enter you will come up with some I think the most of them are GE refrigerators, but probably not just GE
That are connected to the Internet and they're running
SSH Ubuntu 14 version 14 something. Okay, so you access somebody's refrigerator. What can you do?
Well, maybe you can find out what's for dinner tonight and see if you can get invited what
Okay, tell me what is the advantage having a refrigerator connected to the Internet?
I guess if you're not sure what you want to eat you can from remote from at work
You're at work or something to me. There is no advantage, but I'm just guessing
Well, okay, I guess you can see if you have a carton of milk in there
Why is there a camera that'll tell you that something like that? You don't know if it's full. How can you tell?
You don't know if it's what if it's full or empty you can't really tell no
This is it's a component think of a larger system where you know, your groceries are sent from a
Distribution center because your fridge notifies it. It's it's a part of a bigger system. That is yes an ideal
But certainly functionally not exactly what we have now now you just have a vulnerable fridge in your house
Yeah
To say nothing of the fact that it could be you know spying on you or someone could exploit it to spy on you to
Watch you you see a situation like this. I think we have the obligation to hack these things to show the vulnerabilities
It's a refrigerator for God's sake. Okay, so you turn it off or something like that. You're you're teaching the person a lesson
It's not costing anyone their lives or anything like that
But it's kind of silly for us to to run into these things without question without realizing what the risks are now
I've said it before I'll say it again that these things are a lot of fun
They're great to play with but just embracing them blindly is very very foolish
Well, I agree totally agree. All right. Thanks. Thanks for thanks for the info on that. Very good
All right, and I mentioned on that side you can find all kinds of other things, too
If you're looking for baby monitors, you can yeah for that. It's all right. I've looked at a little bit
Then you're maybe a little more familiar. You've played. Yeah. Yeah. Well, they have an API
So it makes it really easy to find insecure anything
I think Shodan originally got famous for finding webcams
uh-huh, and so one of the projects I've been working on in like the past week was using the Shodan API to just
Instantly pull a variety of open webcams on the internet without having to know anything about how it works
Which is crazy how how easy it is for anyone to find these it's kind of like turning making a little
Webcam TV station where people could just flip between webcams while watching them. Yeah, that's great
Without saying anything incriminating any of us. Can you tell us some of the things that you might have been able to see?
I
Can tell you that there's been a spider involved?
Uh-huh. I've seen some spiders and we'll get to you call her. We'll get to you. Just pick up the phone
but
Is there anything that that you might have seen that the person would not have wanted you to see?
I I did see one office building and I could see workers and
I
Don't want to incriminate myself too much here
But the particular webcam would allow you to move the webcam from the browser. So it's PTZ
Yeah has the controls in the you were you were able to control it from probably hundreds of miles away, which is just ridiculous
Yeah thousands of miles away if you have access. Let's take another phone call. Good evening. You're on the air
Oh, yes. Good evening. I just have a very quick question
Last time on the show you discussed the problem with what I've been for the migration from copper line to
Fiber optics and I wonder if you know how the question about senior citizens
stand
Do they have right to force in your citizen to switch from copper to fiber optic?
You know, honestly, I don't know the answer to that because things change
Based on where you are and and what legislation has has has come down in the last
Literally couple of weeks. I was I was informed over the last
Few months that in fact Verizon can do this that they can migrate people off of copper onto something else
There has been resistance to it and I understand that
It might not be moving ahead as forcefully as it was if it is allowed the probably the deal is it must be
equal to or greater than as far as
what they replace your existing service with and that's probably where people are probably a little frustrated because they want
similar features that you just can't offer with fiber optics like
You know the the ability for it to work in an emergency for longer than the period of a small battery
you didn't have that with the old copper line or you were able to endure with no batteries because the
Copper lines had plenty of power. So it's those things. I think people are saying well, you know, if you give me a wireless phone
That's not the same. That's not the same and I think there's I think there's a valid argument and a lot of senior citizens
They see that see the point of that argument and would agree
so at this point I would look for people getting together and maybe there's
more pressure to be put on the Public Utility Commission to advocate for these people regardless though of
What the situation is locally or nationally?
I think we can take some inspiration from what we've been talking about the March for our lives
Actions taking place on on Saturday
You have a bunch of kids there that were told that they couldn't do anything about the situation and they're doing something
Anyway, and they're going to change the situation
Same thing can happen in this situation where senior citizens are told now you can't have your copper line anymore
You have to go the new way, even though it's more inconvenient for you
It's more profitable for us and there's nothing you can do about it
not true because if enough of these people get together and voice outrage by calling into radio shows by calling
Public Service Commissions or elected representatives those voices raised will change whatever policy is in effect
But there have to be enough of them and they have to be loud. Well, I have called the Commission and
For a public service Commission, New York State and
Also FCC and they told me that they have been approved to change it and nothing, you know
We have no word whatever
Well, definitely look at what's going on in your neighborhood talk to people your neighbors your community
representatives to find out what the plan is for your area because as
Emmanuel said it is very very much
It has a lot to do with the specific plan for your area and what they're trying to do
with the the main lines and then how they're breaking that out into the community and into buildings and
And ultimately people's apartments, you know that last that last leg of the connectivity
Get more information to find out what the plan is and see if there is any recourse
there may be a business in the neighborhood that is keeping copper for
for some sort of
system that that requires it and and they're paying to have a private line, maybe a
a
complex of some sort could get a couple of those
Copper lines and get private service for the remaining people that wish to continue with it
But it's it's gonna be gonna have to be creative and it's gonna have to be
loud and really
really standing up against the
the overwhelming
interests of Verizon to move to this platform where they can
Create more value by adding products and and features, you know, you name it all the new video everything is gonna go over this
I also think that if if
There are more people calling
voicing the outrage or the questions that you're voicing that would be
Something that might stave off what Kyle's talking about what you have to look into alternatives
Maybe that will make them rethink what it is that they're doing in the first place pay phones another example
If if a thousand people called and said why are you taking away pay phones?
Pay phones wouldn't be taken away if two people call it's not gonna make much of a difference
So I would say the best thing to do is get as many people involved as possible
Keep calling keep trying don't take no for an answer. That is the problem, sir. That's the problem
Do I have to turn to a community board here or what? Yeah can't hurt can't hurt to get them involved
Absolutely. There's nobody who shouldn't be involved in this. I see. All right. Okay. Thank you very much. Good luck
Thanks for calling. You know, it's it's like we have this conversation all the time about technology
Embrace the new but don't forget the old we're doing this massive project of encoding
compact discs for another radio station close to
100,000 CDs and we use we use disc robots to do this now
We have one robot that we've had now how long have we had that thing? It's it's been well over a decade
It is slow as molasses it is so slow it takes about 20 minutes to encode a single CD
Then we have the fast robot which can do a CD in about two minutes
All right, great, you know
Throw out the old one use the new one now because the new one jams because it's moving so fast takes two CDs at once
Gets confused crashes into itself has a cheaper picking mechanism cheaper. It's more economical. It's more modern, but it's more temperamental
Yeah, so now if if you leave them running, which one do you think finishes more CDs?
That's slow one because it does plods ahead it takes forever, but it doesn't break down. It just keeps going
So yeah, there's good in the fast one
If you're sitting right there, you can babysit it and it'll it'll get a lot done
But if you're not the slow one is gonna be a lot more productive same thing with new and old technology
There are advantages and disadvantages to both but this system still being sort of designed
So it may not be a foregone conclusion that this this type of cabling is is completely retired
But it really has to be a comprehensive
Request from users of those
service of those lines to
change and get I guess the the
Impetus to remove them off the table and in maybe have a rise in
Looking at it in a little bit different way
and I think that's where people's voices come in when they share the advantages and
what's possible then maybe the telephone company will see it as a
possibility instead of just
Something of the past if we can get the same quality
that
Copper lines had on new fiber optic lines voice quality
Basically duplex communication where you can you can talk and somebody else is talking at the same time
You both hear each other not what we have today. We're only one person can be heard at a time
And also being able to stay up during power outages. That is the big attraction of a copper line because
Central offices have generators they can last for weeks
When you have a fiber optic line go out the the little tiny battery they give you might last a day
They need to fix that
They need to come up with a plan where it is just as rugged as the old-fashioned lines
Then you know, they might have something that can actually replace the old technology
But until then it's really something that should work in in conjunction with it. Let's take another phone call. Good evening
You're on off the hook
It sure sounds like you're on a landline because I hear that kind of static that landlines would give you
Attached in the heart of Soho
The generate so they're present this this sound we're hearing is Verizon pressuring you to move to fiber optic
The community at large and we know why they want to do this. They're pushing fire
Which costs, you know, I don't even know how much money I have a regular DSL line
Which as you know travels well on copper wire
And I want to hold on to it. It's not a matter of being a Luddite. I
Have the kind of service that I need when it works and that's all I want to pay for
You know, we control your life
Through entertainment and everything else
But you know when you don't blindly accept something new you are called a Luddite and that is something that is so annoying to me
Because I love new technology
I play with new technology all the time and to be called that by somebody because I don't accept the latest Gmail gimmick without question
Which invariably you wind up seeing the price that's paid down the road
Look at all the Facebook problems. We have now all the people who jumped out jump to that without looking, you know
There's always disadvantages always our price. So you should never be discounted like that
Yes that my rule of thumb is I use the technology
I don't want the technology to use me and as you say, you know, Facebook is a typical
Incident of what can go wrong and did go wrong because now, you know, I've always been completely refractory
I do not want to be on Facebook period and now I know why I mean
I knew why from my own perspective to begin with and
You know now we have confirmation
but to go back to Verizon I
Have been in an endless battle with them because
regularly, and especially when somebody comes to
Touch one of the 600 lines that are attached to this box that serve the entire neighborhood
something happens and
The noise that you hear now gets a lot worse or I can't even use my phone
Altogether and they have given me this, you know
Wireless phone, etc, etc, and I've had extensive conversations with
Sympathetic and more reasonable, especially the technicians and I've learned the following
one
The mobile I think I can say more from the radio who is the head?
chief executive of Verizon now
Comes from their wireless division and has declared a personal war against copper wire
That's what he wants to do he wants to do it away with it because that's what do you like who is this guy?
I don't remember. They told me the name, but I'm sure it's public information
You can find it and you can even find these pronouns amientos, you know, where it says in public forum
Exactly what I told you that you know, it's obsolete technology. We have to do away with it
Meanwhile the police precincts
Guess what only use copper wiring for precisely the same reason that he just
Enunciated which I have touched with my own hands during Sandy you and the blackout
Because there is a line of people outside my door
all community people to make a phone call because I'm the only one who still has a line that works when
everything else goes down which is precisely the reason why I want to continue with the current setup and
Verizon is totally responsible pursuing only profits and not minding what could go wrong and letting people make their own choice. I
Think you've said it. I think that that basically sums the whole thing up
You should have the right to make your own choice. And I commend you caller for
For standing up for your rights here and and refusing to cave despite this horrible noise
Well the other
Exactly, and you know, I have another topic if you don't mind because as you can see, I'm very outspoken
We only have one minute left. So make it quick. Okay, so
the one thing I want to say is that you're absolutely right people have to come together on this and
If we don't
Verizon will still roll us and just ignore us and continue what they want to do and it's not enough to go to the community
Board, we really have to come together. Maybe you can be a hub for a community action of this
I don't know. I'm just throwing out an idea. Well, you can certainly come to
2600 meetings take place at the atrium every first Friday
here in New York City
53rd and 3rd, but there are all kinds of other forums as well where you can meet similar minded people and and organize
Absolutely, absolutely
Thanks so much for your call
Providers are enforcing on people like me because you know again for efficiency reasons I insist on using
Only Windows XP, which in my opinion is the best operating system ever produced
And you're entitled to that opinion here. You're entitled to that opinion
Yes, and and the more secure for a number of reason which would be too too long to discuss. Absolutely
Yes, and I have been encountering all kinds of shutdowns
first with Firefox, which I'm not using anymore then with Chrome and
Even with Internet Explorer, which I have been, you know in desperation
using
For example, you know paradoxically to access my gmail account
I have to use Internet Explorer Wow, which is a Microsoft and it's the only way I can get on it
But now I was trying to get on YouTube and Chrome will not let me access
You know Chrome will always be the first one to kick you off of anything. That's not new enough
They want you to always be constantly updating and getting the newest thing
We'll open this up to other listeners
maybe you could write in and suggest something to help this caller who wants to hang on to Windows XP and
Wow, best of luck with that. Thanks again for the call. We're pretty much out of time
I just want to very quickly ask the panel as it is here in this in the studio
How much old technology we embrace not dent. I know you're a high school kid, but I I know you have a landline, right?
Yeah, we do
We've had it for years and I only
Figured it out when I went downstairs with a beige box and heard a dial tone
And dug through the mountain of wires that was laying there. Uh-huh. And and also does have a rotary dial
It does not I mean I have a rotary phone that I can plug into it. Uh-huh
So yeah, one of the things we do at Maker Faire
We have great fun with this is where kids come up to the to the van and the phone booth and we ask them
Do you know how to use the rotary dial phone and a lot of them don't know how to use?
Well, actually a lot of adults don't how to use either in fairness, but they want to learn there
They're interested in it. I know you as a high school kid embrace old technology as well. I think that includes vinyl
includes
copper lines
Old computers. Yeah. Yeah, there's there's definitely a
fascination around old technology and seeing that at Maker Faire
With the new generation having fun on a rotary phone is really it's it's really a good thing to see. Uh-huh
No, I totally agree with that
Kyle any thoughts on old technology that you want to leave us with? Oh, I
Geez, there's not enough time. I
Second that and yeah, it's old cars for instance. Yeah. Yeah, it's not everything for me just with phones in general
I mean seeing the old
Switching systems and how those networks were
Constructed and maintained to me was very instructive
As to you know kind of understanding what's going on with software and you know modern digital
digital telecommunication systems, so I you know, and and there's many other
Avenues photography would be another one for me, but I don't have enough time
So many cool things you can do with old technology that enhance your understanding of new technology will help you design new things
That's what hacking is all about right to us. Oth at 2600 calm with your thoughts and opinions
Hey go to March for our lives calm check out the March in your area this Saturday and we'll talk about that how that went
next week
Until then stay out of this. Well, no go into the snow. Just don't drive in the snow and
Try to have fun. Good night