[00:00.000 --> 00:06.060]  ...to WBAI in New York, 99.5 FM, and on the web at WBAI.org.
[00:10.130 --> 00:17.630]  Hi, I'm Paul DiRienzo, host of a new program on WBAI, the Thursday edition of Trump Watch, the first 100 days.
[00:17.970 --> 00:22.270]  On Trump Watch, we dissect and inspect the administration of President Donald J.
[00:22.490 --> 00:24.610]  Trump, searching for meaning in the chaos.
[00:24.950 --> 00:27.170]  Tune in every Thursday at 6.30 p.m.
[00:27.250 --> 00:28.630]  following the evening news.
[00:28.870 --> 00:30.390]  Listen while you still can.
[00:33.130 --> 00:36.670]  And you are listening to radio station WBAI New York.
[00:36.850 --> 00:37.990]  The time is 8 o'clock.
[00:38.110 --> 00:39.590]  Time, once again, for Off the Hook.
[00:44.810 --> 00:49.350]  The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[00:50.250 --> 00:52.310]  I cut myself while shaving.
[00:52.910 --> 00:54.830]  Now I can't make a call.
[00:55.430 --> 00:57.650]  We couldn't get much worse.
[01:00.460 --> 01:03.100]  Bum diddly bum for the best, expect the worst.
[01:03.680 --> 01:05.600]  I hope that's understood.
[01:05.940 --> 01:06.560]  Bum diddly bum!
[02:12.700 --> 02:14.780]  And a very, very good evening to everybody.
[02:14.780 --> 02:17.300]  The program is Off the Hook.
[02:17.880 --> 02:20.500]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you, joined tonight by Rob T.
[02:20.700 --> 02:21.140]  Firefly.
[02:21.400 --> 02:22.000]  Good evening.
[02:22.280 --> 02:22.660]  Alex.
[02:23.120 --> 02:23.780]  Привет, друзья.
[02:24.660 --> 02:26.500]  Yeah, we're not doing that anymore.
[02:26.720 --> 02:27.320]  That's done.
[02:27.400 --> 02:27.860]  Good evening.
[02:28.000 --> 02:28.360]  How are you?
[02:28.420 --> 02:28.860]  And Kyle.
[02:29.260 --> 02:30.340]  Hey, what up, y'all?
[02:30.580 --> 02:35.060]  Well, what up, y'all, is a lot, actually, because we've been busy.
[02:36.060 --> 02:37.780]  And good things, good things to report.
[02:38.000 --> 02:39.880]  You know, spring is in the air somehow, finally.
[02:40.940 --> 02:44.160]  I don't know why, but all of a sudden, everyone is talking about Hope today.
[02:44.340 --> 02:49.000]  We've got a million emails about various questions, calls for participation, that kind of thing.
[02:49.200 --> 02:51.740]  And if you're looking to participate, it's not too late.
[02:51.740 --> 02:52.500]  You can volunteer.
[02:53.280 --> 02:55.560]  You can submit a talk idea.
[02:55.780 --> 02:56.620]  Go to hope.net.
[02:56.780 --> 02:57.560]  Get all the information.
[02:57.700 --> 02:58.580]  Conferences this July.
[02:58.580 --> 02:59.440]  It's going to be awesome.
[02:59.880 --> 03:03.080]  And we have all kinds of cool things to announce that will be coming up very, very soon.
[03:03.080 --> 03:09.340]  And people who get admission tickets this month for April, 10% of it goes to the Electronic Frontier Foundation.
[03:09.860 --> 03:14.780]  And they are an awesome group of people that are responsible for a lot of the freedom we still cling to.
[03:15.140 --> 03:20.080]  Support that and support the conference.
[03:20.220 --> 03:25.560]  Our show is here and a great way to share that with you.
[03:25.640 --> 03:30.040]  But those two organizations, both Hope and EFF, really do benefit from that.
[03:30.040 --> 03:33.720]  So this is a great time to think about coming to our conference.
[03:34.040 --> 03:37.000]  But there's another organization that I think people should also be supporting.
[03:37.200 --> 03:38.180]  Do you know what that organization is?
[03:39.240 --> 03:40.260]  It's not the NRA.
[03:40.620 --> 03:41.480]  I would guess that.
[03:41.600 --> 03:41.700]  No.
[03:41.840 --> 03:42.760]  No, that's not on my list.
[03:42.840 --> 03:43.040]  Okay.
[03:43.240 --> 03:44.120]  No, not them.
[03:44.200 --> 03:44.520]  Not them.
[03:45.400 --> 03:45.760]  WBAI?
[03:46.200 --> 03:46.560]  WBAI.
[03:46.620 --> 03:47.240]  Very good, Kyle.
[03:47.360 --> 03:47.820]  Very good.
[03:47.820 --> 03:48.520]  You did your homework.
[03:48.780 --> 03:51.800]  Yes, WBAI, the very station that we're speaking to you on.
[03:51.980 --> 03:53.080]  Oh, I bet I know why.
[03:53.280 --> 03:53.560]  Okay.
[03:53.560 --> 04:09.060]  Well, it has something to do with previous shows that were like fundraising shows where I was talking about how the community's donations go towards the operation and fund all kinds of things.
[04:09.180 --> 04:10.200]  Well, that kind of thing.
[04:10.200 --> 04:11.780]  You make it sound boring when you say it like that.
[04:11.840 --> 04:14.060]  But yeah, that's basically the sentiment that...
[04:14.060 --> 04:14.800]  It's about that, right?
[04:14.960 --> 04:15.660]  It's about that.
[04:15.680 --> 04:17.380]  But here's the flip side of the whole thing.
[04:17.920 --> 04:19.980]  We actually are getting things done.
[04:20.000 --> 04:23.400]  And I just want to share some of the great news that we have.
[04:23.580 --> 04:32.180]  And it's thanks to so many people who have shown support for us over the past however many months and years we've been in crisis.
[04:32.620 --> 04:35.960]  But basically, we are moving our transmitter finally.
[04:35.980 --> 04:46.280]  And we are able to have come to an agreement with the Empire State Building to not be beholden to them for the remaining two years of that lease that was costing us about $60,000 a month.
[04:46.440 --> 04:47.280]  Now, think about that.
[04:47.380 --> 04:49.480]  That's quite a savings right there.
[04:49.480 --> 04:54.200]  And we will be moving to the Times Square location at a much cheaper rate.
[04:55.080 --> 05:06.000]  And the Durst Foundation, the organization, has been really helpful as far as fronting things for us and helping us in this particular movement.
[05:06.500 --> 05:14.160]  We are already purchasing a new transmitter because the old one is older than, I think, everybody who works here.
[05:14.700 --> 05:20.560]  And not only have we purchased a new transmitter, we have also purchased a new backup transmitter.
[05:20.840 --> 05:21.160]  Yeah.
[05:21.260 --> 05:26.460]  So, that means when we go off the air, we can come back on the air from somewhere else.
[05:26.460 --> 05:27.860]  And that's kind of cool.
[05:28.720 --> 05:32.720]  Also, I'm just looking at all these things that are being passed around.
[05:32.920 --> 05:34.400]  We're getting new equipment here.
[05:34.540 --> 05:39.820]  We're getting an actual professional board so that we sound more like a radio station again.
[05:39.980 --> 05:41.620]  And, you know, it's progress.
[05:41.620 --> 05:42.440]  And we needed that.
[05:42.440 --> 05:44.720]  We were long overdue for this.
[05:45.300 --> 05:47.020]  But I just wanted people to know that.
[05:47.100 --> 05:50.580]  That we're not just on the air asking for people to support us.
[05:50.860 --> 05:53.940]  We actually make good decisions when we have the resources.
[05:53.980 --> 05:55.280]  And we have the resources now.
[05:55.400 --> 05:56.500]  We're moving ahead.
[05:56.500 --> 05:57.780]  We're not going under.
[05:58.220 --> 06:02.320]  And, you know, everybody was writing the epitaphs, you know, and the obituaries, all that.
[06:03.040 --> 06:05.540]  And some people really seem to want to do that.
[06:05.580 --> 06:08.020]  And it's frustrating and annoying.
[06:08.180 --> 06:10.300]  I expect, you know, our enemies to want to do that.
[06:10.400 --> 06:19.940]  But the people who supposedly are allied with the mission of the Pacifica Foundation and the things we've been doing over the years, over the decades, we can't give up.
[06:20.040 --> 06:20.980]  We can't give up that easily.
[06:20.980 --> 06:26.740]  Even if it's people you don't like that are on the air or that are running things, you can't give up on the overall mission.
[06:27.220 --> 06:28.460]  We're stronger than that.
[06:28.460 --> 06:34.200]  And I think as long as we stick together and keep doing our thing, we're going to be all right.
[06:34.340 --> 06:36.540]  And that goes for the country as well as the radio station.
[06:36.720 --> 06:45.920]  So with that, I think also just so people, if they want to express themselves by further supporting us, become a BAI buddy.
[06:46.060 --> 06:52.440]  We have a drive to get as many BAI buddies as possible so that we can do less fundraising in the future, less on-air fundraising.
[06:52.780 --> 06:57.840]  And the way to do that, you just go to our website, www.give2wbai.org.
[06:57.840 --> 07:00.020]  Give the number to www.bai.org.
[07:00.700 --> 07:02.020]  And the options are there.
[07:02.160 --> 07:07.980]  You can donate a certain amount per month, become a BAI buddy that way, and you'll be helping out.
[07:08.100 --> 07:09.220]  You'll be making these things possible.
[07:09.440 --> 07:14.960]  Yeah, and if you're the type of person that's busy, you can't be making these payments regularly, this is the way to automate that.
[07:14.960 --> 07:17.380]  That means we always get a fixed amount.
[07:17.620 --> 07:38.140]  And by enrolling more and new members into this program, we're able to have less of a lengthy fundraising period because we can count on those listeners that are a part of that pool of continuing subscribers to this incredible community station.
[07:38.140 --> 07:39.800]  And that is great news.
[07:39.920 --> 07:40.940]  I was so excited to hear that.
[07:41.020 --> 07:52.560]  There are actually big pieces of equipment, hopefully rolling on trucks on their way to prepare for this move and much coordinating going on behind the scenes.
[07:52.660 --> 07:53.660]  We'll lend out the 2600 Semi.
[07:53.660 --> 07:57.440]  We can offer its services if necessary.
[07:58.200 --> 07:59.460]  Yeah, and it's great.
[07:59.620 --> 08:07.540]  I mean, anyone out there who's had the extreme good fortune to be able to, after a period of time of just barely surviving, you suddenly find your situation improved.
[08:08.040 --> 08:13.980]  You find yourself doing well and able to take care of things that have been needing attention for however long.
[08:14.600 --> 08:16.140]  That's where we are at the station right now.
[08:16.240 --> 08:18.600]  And it's this big sort of sigh of relief.
[08:18.740 --> 08:21.220]  And we're not resting on our laurels or anything.
[08:21.260 --> 08:22.600]  There's still a whole lot of work to do.
[08:23.660 --> 08:27.200]  There's still a whole lot of community support that we depend on.
[08:27.340 --> 08:34.380]  And if you become a BAI buddy, go to give2wbai.org or call 516-620-3602.
[08:34.380 --> 08:36.920]  I believe they can also help you with the BAI buddy program.
[08:37.380 --> 08:46.380]  You can just decide any amount that you like to donate automatically on a monthly basis without having to make the decision, without having to make the call every time.
[08:46.760 --> 08:49.820]  And there are some very special thank yous that you get for that.
[08:49.820 --> 08:58.100]  And it's just a really good way to help support us and to give us a dependable income, which is something that really makes all the difference.
[08:58.160 --> 09:02.700]  And please make sure that you mention that Off the Hook is your favorite show when you do this.
[09:02.740 --> 09:06.960]  Because when that happens, when you get enough people saying that, they hold the door for you when you walk in.
[09:06.960 --> 09:09.000]  And I would like that.
[09:09.320 --> 09:10.200]  They do, yeah.
[09:10.960 --> 09:16.260]  It's great to have this decisive stuff going on, though, and a new direction for the station.
[09:16.460 --> 09:22.920]  And we can't wait for these developments to really bear their fruit.
[09:23.100 --> 09:24.180]  Well, you're completely right.
[09:24.280 --> 09:28.240]  I mean, to think back to the end of 2017, I mean, it was pretty bad.
[09:28.560 --> 09:32.160]  I mean, this was basically a near-death experience for WBAI.
[09:32.160 --> 09:33.620]  Well, remember the end of 2001.
[09:33.920 --> 09:34.960]  That wasn't so great either.
[09:35.080 --> 09:37.020]  Actually, was it 2001 or 2000?
[09:37.220 --> 09:37.540]  2000.
[09:38.000 --> 09:40.820]  2000 was when the coup took place, and 2001 was the occupation.
[09:41.680 --> 09:44.180]  And then you go back to the 80s, all kinds of history here.
[09:44.240 --> 09:45.880]  You could write many books about this.
[09:46.000 --> 09:47.800]  It could be an ongoing miniseries.
[09:47.880 --> 10:03.800]  But the important point is the support and the level heads around this situation, putting sort of, I'd say, petty and very specific differences aside, for the greater good of the station, a fantastic station here in New York.
[10:03.800 --> 10:04.520]  We do have level heads.
[10:04.680 --> 10:05.500]  There are level heads here.
[10:05.680 --> 10:07.060]  People don't seem to realize that.
[10:07.140 --> 10:08.420]  But there are a lot of level-headed people.
[10:08.720 --> 10:16.920]  And hats off to them, because having to deal with everything, and there's so much to deal with on a daily basis here, it takes a lot of strength.
[10:16.980 --> 10:21.280]  But in relative crisis, it's not the time for the small stuff, to be sweating small stuff.
[10:21.360 --> 10:24.260]  You've got to really make a decisive choice.
[10:24.260 --> 10:28.940]  And a lot of those needed choices were made here.
[10:29.080 --> 10:31.640]  And as I said, it's an exciting new direction.
[10:31.640 --> 10:34.200]  And hopefully we'll sound a little better as a result.
[10:34.500 --> 10:35.960]  And it didn't come from nowhere either.
[10:36.120 --> 10:43.440]  We just, again, I need to say a really huge thank you to everyone who's been supporting us in the past, everyone who's supporting us now in the future.
[10:43.560 --> 10:46.540]  But this didn't happen out of nowhere.
[10:46.540 --> 10:48.580]  This didn't happen just randomly.
[10:48.580 --> 11:02.040]  This happened because we've got the support of listeners like you, of the people who not only donate money, but the people who donate their time to this station, the people who are working behind the scenes to just make sure that everything gets done that needs to,
[11:02.140 --> 11:04.440]  and the people who are fighting for us through the whole Empire State thing.
[11:05.300 --> 11:08.920]  Just, it's really amazing what this community can do when it comes together.
[11:09.640 --> 11:10.040]  Absolutely.
[11:10.100 --> 11:13.160]  And I know there are a bunch of people out there right now saying, okay, so where's my premium?
[11:13.520 --> 11:15.860]  All right, yeah, we have updates on that as well.
[11:16.120 --> 11:26.640]  As we mentioned, we are contacting station management to get a list of all the people who pledged for Hacker Digest in the last fundraiser.
[11:26.740 --> 11:29.600]  That would be the winter fundraiser in February, I believe.
[11:30.000 --> 11:42.240]  And also to get a list of the people who pledged for Alex, your premium, your generously donated premium for legal advice, and Steve Ramban's private investigator premiums.
[11:42.540 --> 11:48.740]  So whoever has pledged and paid for those premiums now will be contacted very, very shortly.
[11:49.580 --> 11:58.140]  We also have some leftover premiums from, I believe, the Autumn fundraiser, which were keynote addresses from the HOPE conferences.
[11:58.600 --> 12:06.000]  If you have not gotten one of those and you pledged for one of those, please contact us, OTH at 2600.com.
[12:06.520 --> 12:09.700]  We are in the process of making sure all of those go out as well.
[12:09.860 --> 12:17.160]  We got this bit of email from a listener, which brings up an issue, I guess, that we should also discuss.
[12:17.160 --> 12:20.820]  I donated $100 to WBAI on February 23rd.
[12:20.880 --> 12:22.560]  How do I get my issues of 2600?
[12:22.700 --> 12:23.480]  I sent a text.
[12:24.520 --> 12:25.660]  This is from Noah.
[12:25.800 --> 12:27.180]  Noah, well, okay.
[12:27.480 --> 12:30.520]  It sounds like by issues, you mean the digest.
[12:30.900 --> 12:32.600]  That is, in fact, what you mean.
[12:33.400 --> 12:41.640]  We'd like to know if you had a choice when you sent that text of selecting the premium that you wanted.
[12:42.020 --> 12:45.480]  If you did select a premium, then you should be getting it fairly soon.
[12:45.920 --> 12:48.960]  If you did not, then there's really no way we would know what premium you wanted.
[12:49.620 --> 12:52.020]  And please let us know that.
[12:52.440 --> 13:01.000]  And if you could send us any kind of a receipt, if you did not select a premium, we will try and make sure that that works out to everyone's advantage.
[13:02.380 --> 13:03.280]  And I can't believe it.
[13:03.340 --> 13:05.300]  We actually are on top of this.
[13:05.300 --> 13:07.100]  There's no huge backlog.
[13:07.220 --> 13:09.280]  No angry people pounding at the door.
[13:09.420 --> 13:11.200]  I think we're in fairly good shape.
[13:11.500 --> 13:12.880]  No listener left behind.
[13:13.540 --> 13:14.700]  I'd like to say that, yeah.
[13:14.800 --> 13:24.520]  No, we're bringing everybody with us onto this exciting new broadcasting future that is emerging.
[13:24.520 --> 13:31.320]  And wow, yeah, it's been quite a ride, I think, for a lot of people here.
[13:31.600 --> 13:41.260]  Uncertainty and the like, but that is the perils of running such a unique place, community radio, as it were, in an incredible market like this.
[13:41.660 --> 13:46.780]  And just to continue this theme, we have more good news that has actually just come in.
[13:46.780 --> 13:54.800]  And again, from our listener, Sue Ellen, who wrote in last week, and always writes in at the last possible minute.
[13:55.520 --> 14:00.040]  Okay, good news for all disgruntled past and present Verizon customers.
[14:00.300 --> 14:15.600]  Earlier today, the Public Service Commission informed me that the time being given to the public to post comments in regards to case number 16-C-0122 has been extended to on or before April 20th, that's Friday.
[14:16.100 --> 14:30.880]  As a consequence, if off the hook, or anyone else in the 2600 community, or the personal computer radio show, which follows us, if they want to affect policy change when it comes to maintenance of Verizon's plain old landline telephone service over copper lines,
[14:31.260 --> 14:32.760]  there is still some time to do it.
[14:32.900 --> 14:35.600]  It would be a great public service if U.S.
[14:35.800 --> 14:48.200]  broadcasters were to reach out to the 2600 and PC radio show audience over the air to get the word out, since there has been inadequate notification to the public about this opportunity to affect public policy overseeing Verizon.
[14:48.380 --> 14:48.920]  So how do you do that?
[14:49.120 --> 14:49.500]  Okay.
[14:49.920 --> 14:52.800]  Well, you can view the comments that have already been posted, including my own.
[14:53.200 --> 15:06.060]  Go to documents.dps.ny.gov and search for file case number 16-C-0122.
[15:06.620 --> 15:09.900]  You can click on post comments to post your own comments.
[15:10.020 --> 15:16.000]  And if you choose to, you can paste something from Word instead of initially writing your commentary directly onto the site, but you probably already know that.
[15:16.880 --> 15:21.060]  And the aim is to have your comments used as part of the evidence in this case.
[15:21.380 --> 15:23.520]  Thank you so much for that very valuable information.
[15:23.520 --> 15:27.560]  I trust everyone in this room, at least, has already done this.
[15:27.580 --> 15:31.280]  And if not, I'll do it as soon as I get home.
[15:32.040 --> 15:32.320]  Yeah.
[15:33.000 --> 15:33.480]  I'm sorry.
[15:33.520 --> 15:33.980]  I didn't do it.
[15:33.980 --> 15:35.840]  I know you guys did, but I didn't do it yet.
[15:35.840 --> 15:36.440]  But I will.
[15:36.580 --> 15:36.960]  I promise.
[15:37.160 --> 15:38.220]  I have to catch up, actually.
[15:38.340 --> 15:40.260]  I think I was in the middle.
[15:40.360 --> 15:41.320]  Let's just say that.
[15:41.440 --> 15:42.000]  You didn't do it either?
[15:42.000 --> 15:42.720]  No, I didn't.
[15:42.720 --> 15:43.140]  You didn't do it either.
[15:43.580 --> 15:45.840]  Okay, so half of us didn't do it.
[15:46.000 --> 15:46.220]  All right.
[15:46.440 --> 15:48.480]  You guys, you deserve the credit for having done it.
[15:48.700 --> 15:51.640]  I sent myself the bookmark, so I'll get it when I get home.
[15:52.000 --> 15:53.580]  You sent yourself the bookmark.
[15:53.680 --> 15:55.620]  Wow, they're going to really notice that, aren't they?
[15:56.120 --> 15:58.400]  All right, Alex, you're the only one that actually did this.
[15:58.720 --> 15:59.480]  Congrats to you.
[15:59.520 --> 16:01.180]  I guess you get all the credit.
[16:02.900 --> 16:03.800]  Well, deservedly so.
[16:04.760 --> 16:06.200]  You have nothing else to say, huh?
[16:06.880 --> 16:07.240]  Yeah.
[16:07.560 --> 16:08.200]  I believe him.
[16:08.300 --> 16:08.880]  All right, fine.
[16:08.880 --> 16:09.440]  I believe him.
[16:09.600 --> 16:09.720]  Fine.
[16:10.120 --> 16:10.820]  Well, good, good.
[16:11.700 --> 16:22.960]  If anyone else has questions or comments for the show or you have an issue with a premium, please write to us 24-7 any time of day.
[16:23.180 --> 16:26.040]  That doesn't mean continuously write to us so that we go crazy.
[16:26.520 --> 16:27.400]  Write to us any time.
[16:27.400 --> 16:28.380]  It's not going to wake us up.
[16:28.540 --> 16:29.180]  Well, right, right.
[16:29.180 --> 16:34.820]  We're not going to be bothered if you choose a time that ordinarily you wouldn't bother somebody because it's email and that's how email works.
[16:34.820 --> 16:37.820]  People complain to me when I tweet too late.
[16:38.180 --> 16:39.380]  Your Twitter woke me up.
[16:39.380 --> 16:41.860]  Can you believe somebody actually has an alarm set?
[16:42.000 --> 16:43.220]  Sorry about your life.
[16:43.320 --> 16:43.420]  Yeah.
[16:43.760 --> 16:46.600]  Don't have your damn Twitter feed go to your phone, okay?
[16:46.600 --> 16:48.500]  I'll tweet whenever I damn well please.
[16:49.080 --> 16:49.580]  Anyway.
[16:49.820 --> 16:51.380]  I mean, this is America, is it not?
[16:52.060 --> 16:55.570]  O-T-H at 2600.com.
[16:55.570 --> 16:57.670]  Yeah, open 24 hours for your convenience.
[16:57.970 --> 16:58.330]  Mm-hmm.
[16:58.950 --> 17:05.630]  And also, let me point out, if you do write to that email address, assume that we are going to read your letter on the air.
[17:05.750 --> 17:08.430]  Some people were upset that we read their letters on the air.
[17:09.710 --> 17:12.090]  We only read names if you give a name.
[17:12.090 --> 17:13.290]  We don't read your email address.
[17:13.290 --> 17:14.090]  We're not idiots.
[17:14.410 --> 17:15.850]  But you can give us any name.
[17:16.070 --> 17:16.870]  You can give us any.
[17:17.070 --> 17:17.870]  Yeah, you can fudge it.
[17:17.910 --> 17:18.750]  We're not going to check.
[17:19.850 --> 17:28.790]  But also, you know, if you expect us to help you with your problem without reading your email on the air and being a part of the radio show, that's not what we do.
[17:28.790 --> 17:29.630]  We're not a help desk.
[17:29.850 --> 17:32.830]  So we can't help you unless it's part of the show.
[17:32.990 --> 17:33.530]  Right, yeah.
[17:33.630 --> 17:37.730]  We're not going to have like a private consult with you and not include other listeners.
[17:37.790 --> 17:38.670]  That's not fair.
[17:38.670 --> 17:40.250]  That's not the purpose of the show.
[17:40.330 --> 17:42.830]  The purpose of the show is to share and spread information.
[17:43.270 --> 17:46.370]  So we hope that people can be a part of that spirit.
[17:46.770 --> 17:48.030]  But we are always willing to.
[17:48.030 --> 17:54.810]  If you would rather we not name you when we read your email, you know, you can say please withhold my name and we always respect that sort of thing.
[17:54.870 --> 17:56.890]  You don't even have to say please, you know?
[17:56.990 --> 17:58.030]  And if you don't give a name...
[17:58.030 --> 17:58.690]  You can say hey stupid, withhold my name.
[17:58.690 --> 18:00.590]  If you don't give a name, we're not going to read a name.
[18:00.650 --> 18:05.150]  In fact, you know, sometimes people get angry when we read their letter and don't read a name because they didn't sign it.
[18:05.450 --> 18:06.550]  They only have the email address.
[18:06.710 --> 18:08.330]  We're not going to be presumptuous and assume you want...
[18:08.330 --> 18:09.550]  Yeah, we're not going to default to the email.
[18:09.750 --> 18:10.410]  Exactly, yes.
[18:10.630 --> 18:16.990]  Some people's emails like automatically append signatures with like name and employee number and all sorts of, you know...
[18:16.990 --> 18:18.030]  And they warn you, too.
[18:18.150 --> 18:22.470]  And they say this is only meant for the recipient and you can go to jail if the wrong person reads this.
[18:22.630 --> 18:23.350]  And wow.
[18:23.670 --> 18:30.850]  But if the recipient is a broadcasting institution such as us, yeah, that's generally considered for broadcast.
[18:31.170 --> 18:36.950]  By the way, I might have neglected to mention the letter we just read from Cyril and what we're talking about.
[18:37.210 --> 18:45.330]  For anyone not familiar with the actual issue at hand, we're talking about copper wires that Verizon is trying to coerce people into giving up.
[18:45.330 --> 18:46.090]  What's copper wire?
[18:46.270 --> 18:48.270]  It's basically an old-fashioned phone line.
[18:48.690 --> 18:53.430]  You know, the kind where you pick it up and there's a dial tone and it seems to always work even when there's no power.
[18:53.810 --> 19:04.890]  Well, Verizon is steadfastly moving into the realm where everything is kind of like over the Internet where you have to be connected.
[19:04.890 --> 19:07.210]  And if you lose that connection, you lose everything.
[19:07.410 --> 19:11.230]  It's like, you know, imagine if you have a phone attached to your cable service.
[19:11.310 --> 19:12.870]  You lose your cable service, you lose your phone.
[19:12.870 --> 19:21.190]  In this particular case, your Fios or non-copper line is tied to power.
[19:21.190 --> 19:26.790]  You have maybe a backup that will last a few hours, maybe a day, but no more than that.
[19:26.890 --> 19:35.890]  Whereas now, on copper lines, it's tied to a backup generator in the central office that will run for weeks if you lose power.
[19:36.070 --> 19:38.050]  And, you know, it doesn't happen often, but it does happen.
[19:38.050 --> 19:42.830]  We have blizzards, we have hurricanes, we have whatever Trump's got planned for us coming.
[19:43.170 --> 19:45.530]  And it's good to have a phone.
[19:45.750 --> 19:46.990]  Believe me, it's great to have a phone.
[19:47.210 --> 19:50.370]  Yeah, and we're saying copper for the purposes of discussion.
[19:50.450 --> 19:55.250]  You mean a twisted pair, which is used in the old telephone systems.
[19:55.770 --> 20:07.770]  Coax cable is technically copper, but those are similar in providing cable modem service, similar to the Fios offering from Verizon.
[20:07.910 --> 20:19.310]  In that, upstream from your cable box in your house, there are batteries that are used in amplification and other parts of the distribution over coax cable.
[20:19.690 --> 20:25.610]  And it's very similar to fiber in failure when the power does go out.
[20:25.610 --> 20:40.230]  They have a very limited battery supply in the distribution of that connectivity, which was not the case when you had a line going to a central office that was supported back in the days of the plain old telephone system.
[20:40.350 --> 20:42.810]  You see, I like the new things.
[20:43.210 --> 20:44.690]  Fios sounds like a good idea.
[20:44.690 --> 20:46.230]  You can do all kinds of cool things with it.
[20:46.410 --> 20:52.030]  But I don't like simply cutting off the old technology as if it's completely worthless.
[20:52.030 --> 20:56.230]  Because oftentimes, that is what will work when something else stops working.
[20:56.390 --> 20:57.110]  You need that backup.
[20:57.370 --> 21:01.250]  And that is what we seem to never learn, is how to keep backups.
[21:01.490 --> 21:07.550]  Whether it's a backup in service, a backup of data, a backup location, all kinds of things.
[21:07.930 --> 21:12.430]  What if situations that you might not anticipate coming, you have to be covered?
[21:12.630 --> 21:15.190]  And I think another thing is the abruptness of it.
[21:15.390 --> 21:21.610]  They're not planning to slowly ramp this down in a way that they're maintaining things that can be maintained.
[21:21.630 --> 21:47.430]  It's an abrupt, complete disregard for that form of infrastructure, which is really traumatic for someone who's used it for maybe 30, 40 years or individuals that don't have as many options yet or can't afford to pay for the build-out of other options or a variety of reasons.
[21:47.430 --> 22:04.930]  There's a lot of reasons why, but if the telephone company, in this case Verizon, was planning to maintain certain aspects of it and very carefully removing service, that would be, I think, ideal and one thing entirely.
[22:05.190 --> 22:07.830]  But the way it's going, it's been very abrupt.
[22:07.830 --> 22:31.430]  And I think what these customers are doing and by raising this is actually coming up with the need and arguing or advocating on behalf of their communities, which are affected by this sort of abrupt and very sort of obtuse way of handling something they've depended on for many years.
[22:31.430 --> 22:42.410]  And I think it's important to note, too, that Verizon and quite likely many other communications carriers around the country seem to take any opportunity they can to shut down POTS service.
[22:42.810 --> 22:45.270]  I mean, look back to Hurricane Sandy.
[22:45.390 --> 22:50.250]  In the wake of Hurricane Sandy, so many people lost their copper telephone lines just because poles were down.
[22:50.390 --> 22:53.870]  But Verizon really didn't focus on restoring that service.
[22:54.010 --> 23:13.770]  Instead of focusing on restoring plain old telephone service or POTS lines or copper lines, they focused more on using their resources that were already overextended and installing things like files and leaving people who were reliant on POTS lines completely and literally in the dark here without any means of communication.
[23:14.090 --> 23:28.770]  And I think that that's really abhorrent because we're generally talking about a population that is usually a bit older than ordinary people that are using voice over IP lines, et cetera, et cetera.
[23:29.670 --> 23:34.710]  But, you know, the other thing to think about, too, is, you know, look, when things go out, things go out, right?
[23:34.850 --> 23:43.710]  I mean, I'm sure we're going to get to some other stories about these types of attacks, but, you know, major network disruptions happen on widespread scales.
[23:43.970 --> 23:49.710]  And let's say there is a major cyber event.
[23:50.630 --> 23:59.830]  If your phone line is connected to your router and your router is being hijacked by, you know, a nefarious actor, your phone line is going to be out of service.
[24:00.190 --> 24:01.570]  Yeah, you certainly...
[24:01.570 --> 24:05.470]  Yeah, and you are then, you know, at the effect, you run out of options.
[24:05.470 --> 24:07.630]  You want a diversity of options.
[24:07.630 --> 24:17.890]  And I think at least what I'm saying is that people are asking the question and, you know, they should have some answers about, okay, well, what is happening and what is the plan in a comprehensive way?
[24:17.890 --> 24:35.330]  And, you know, granted, we don't know necessarily what, as a network, the telephone company is dealing with, like, what they're facing, but people should be able to know in sort of a clear way what to expect and why.
[24:35.550 --> 24:59.050]  You know, why is this not... it's not possible to maintain certain aspects of this or what can be done to ease this effect instead of just removing it, the stilts, so to speak, right out from under a population and, as you said, eliminate the diversity of infrastructure options and not maintain things that have we ever even looked?
[24:59.250 --> 25:08.310]  Is it possible to maintain one or the other parts of the system as opposed to just abandoning the thing and forcing people in this, again, abrupt and sort of rough way?
[25:08.310 --> 25:10.830]  Well, it's a focus of profit over service.
[25:10.970 --> 25:11.390]  Absolutely.
[25:11.670 --> 25:13.370]  But, again, could it be managed better?
[25:13.510 --> 25:25.110]  Could it be managed in a way that it doesn't affect a huge swath of the population that has been otherwise loyal to this company, you know, and to the service?
[25:25.250 --> 25:42.210]  So, I just went over to that website that was given to us to comment on this particular case about preserving copper wire, copper lines, plain old telephone service in the Verizon area, documents.dps.ny.gov.
[25:43.130 --> 25:46.870]  And, you know, according to this, there's only 10 public comments.
[25:47.150 --> 25:51.190]  So, folks, you can really make a difference here just by saying something.
[25:51.330 --> 25:53.010]  There's 181 filed documents.
[25:53.090 --> 25:54.090]  Not exactly sure what that means.
[25:54.590 --> 25:59.190]  A party list of 10, calendar 3, but public comments says 10.
[25:59.390 --> 26:01.230]  And a couple of those people have posted more than once.
[26:01.790 --> 26:05.990]  So, yeah, by all means, go to that website and click on post comments.
[26:06.570 --> 26:10.190]  And it'll ask for a name, an address, and an email address.
[26:10.190 --> 26:14.850]  And then you can write whatever you want or paste whatever you want into the comment section below.
[26:15.110 --> 26:19.950]  And I really hope there's a lot more than 10 comments by this time tomorrow.
[26:19.950 --> 26:23.130]  Again, the deadline is Friday, the 20th.
[26:23.270 --> 26:24.330]  This is your opportunity, people.
[26:24.470 --> 26:25.390]  I mean, ask the questions.
[26:25.610 --> 26:26.130]  What neighborhoods?
[26:26.350 --> 26:27.710]  What buildings?
[26:28.010 --> 26:29.070]  What communities?
[26:29.350 --> 26:30.250]  Where specifically?
[26:30.590 --> 26:31.610]  And what is the timeline?
[26:31.990 --> 26:33.890]  How fast is this occurring?
[26:34.010 --> 26:35.590]  And what are the options?
[26:35.690 --> 26:37.470]  Or what are at least other reasons?
[26:37.730 --> 26:39.950]  You know, how many millions do you not have?
[26:39.950 --> 26:40.610]  Or why?
[26:40.770 --> 26:43.970]  You know, we need something more, I think, as a community.
[26:44.170 --> 26:47.030]  If you listen to us live, you don't have a pen handy.
[26:47.030 --> 26:51.150]  You have 30 seconds to get one, because I'm going to read the address again and the case number again.
[26:51.250 --> 26:54.530]  And that's going to be it, because we have to move on to other things as well.
[26:54.990 --> 27:12.450]  But we are talking about preserving copper lines, having it as a backup system here in the state of New York, where Verizon has been diligently trying to get people to switch over and lose the system that works when there's power outages and all kinds of other disasters.
[27:13.190 --> 27:14.510]  Okay, 30 seconds is up.
[27:14.630 --> 27:15.570]  So here is the site.
[27:15.610 --> 27:16.350]  I hope you have a pen.
[27:16.350 --> 27:19.710]  If not, you know, write it on the window or something.
[27:19.830 --> 27:20.090]  I don't know.
[27:20.230 --> 27:20.950]  If you can figure it out.
[27:22.850 --> 27:27.230]  Documents.dps.ny.gov.
[27:27.830 --> 27:30.310]  Department of Public Service is what DPS stands for.
[27:30.710 --> 27:38.530]  And the case number is 16-C-0122.
[27:38.530 --> 27:39.050]  I'll say that again.
[27:39.190 --> 27:43.170]  16-C-0122.
[27:43.170 --> 27:45.830]  And it'll all unfold in front of you.
[27:46.530 --> 27:46.930]  Okay.
[27:47.510 --> 27:48.770]  There's been other things going on.
[27:48.970 --> 27:54.730]  Alex, you've been busy gathering data about something that's been in the news.
[27:55.550 --> 27:57.510]  You want to share what you've been up to?
[27:57.510 --> 27:58.210]  Maybe.
[27:58.430 --> 27:59.690]  You've got a lot of papers there.
[27:59.750 --> 28:00.170]  What's going on?
[28:00.210 --> 28:00.450]  I do.
[28:00.590 --> 28:01.530]  I've got lots of papers.
[28:01.690 --> 28:03.530]  Generally, I always have lots of papers when I come here.
[28:03.730 --> 28:04.050]  You do.
[28:04.050 --> 28:05.810]  You're always filing suit against somebody.
[28:05.970 --> 28:06.290]  Yes.
[28:06.430 --> 28:07.290]  That's exactly right.
[28:07.510 --> 28:08.130]  Defending somebody else.
[28:08.310 --> 28:19.670]  Well, I think if we recall Friday night, there was a major smear campaign that launched against James Comey in anticipation of the release of his book.
[28:19.770 --> 28:32.150]  And I think in response to the pre-release of certain copies and reporting in the media about James Comey's book and the progress of the special counsel, the rating of Michael Cohen's office.
[28:32.150 --> 28:41.010]  And I think it becomes extremely important for the GOP and Trump supporters to begin to discredit the people that are behind these particular types of books.
[28:41.010 --> 28:45.470]  For those who have not been paying attention, this is where we stand in the drama so far.
[28:46.250 --> 28:52.810]  The lawyer of the president has had his offices raided, his home raided, his hotel raided because his house is still being renovated.
[28:53.910 --> 29:07.070]  And the former director of the FBI is releasing a book and is now persona non grata in the Trump administration and is being threatened with prison and all kinds of things like that.
[29:07.070 --> 29:11.630]  It's basically a Stalinist purge, or at least has all the earmarks of that.
[29:12.550 --> 29:15.030]  And meanwhile, what else is going on?
[29:15.070 --> 29:18.130]  I guess everything else is kind of irrelevant to this particular case.
[29:18.390 --> 29:19.110]  Well, maybe, maybe.
[29:19.210 --> 29:20.350]  We're talking about the media.
[29:20.530 --> 29:39.850]  So what also happened, I think it was on Friday, in the Southern District of New York in federal court, there was a hearing that related to whether the FBI that raided Michael Cohen's office could review the documents that they obtained as part of that search.
[29:40.150 --> 29:45.070]  You know, that was, you know, a lawful search warrant authorized by a judge of the Southern District of New York.
[29:45.270 --> 29:52.050]  And during that proceeding, the issue arose as to whether Michael Cohen was, in fact, a real lawyer and had real clients.
[29:52.250 --> 30:07.490]  And, you know, it was this really bizarre situation where somebody from the gallery who couldn't have been standing, or I'm sorry, sitting, or even standing at the podium or a council table, literally in front of the bar where the courtroom is, somebody stood up and said,
[30:07.670 --> 30:30.410]  I'm a lawyer for CNN and the AP and a couple other media organizations, and if you are going to allow Michael Cohen to notify the court under seal about who this mystery third client is, well, then the public is going to want to know your reasoning for withholding that information because we think there's tremendous public interest in it.
[30:30.450 --> 30:36.850]  He said it much more eloquently than I did, and had really prepared a wonderful statement, but it was so bizarre he stood up.
[30:36.990 --> 30:37.630]  Were you there?
[30:37.850 --> 30:38.970]  No, I read the transcript.
[30:39.070 --> 30:39.350]  Oh, okay.
[30:39.590 --> 30:43.070]  And the judge, and he said, you know, perhaps I should come to the podium.
[30:43.370 --> 30:45.870]  And Judge Kimba Wood said, yes, I think you should.
[30:45.950 --> 30:49.530]  And he went to the podium, and he spoke, and he changed the judge's mind.
[30:49.850 --> 31:01.950]  And then idiotically, the lawyer for Michael Cohen, instead of writing down the name of this client of Michael Cohen's, and submitting to the judge, which the judge would have allowed him to do, he said it in open court.
[31:02.870 --> 31:03.270]  Wow.
[31:03.270 --> 31:04.590]  And he said Sean Hannity.
[31:04.790 --> 31:06.610]  That's how we know Sean Hannity.
[31:06.950 --> 31:08.050]  I did not know that.
[31:08.190 --> 31:09.270]  That happened Monday, not Friday.
[31:09.470 --> 31:09.910]  I'm sorry.
[31:10.070 --> 31:10.450]  That's right.
[31:10.570 --> 31:10.710]  Monday.
[31:10.710 --> 31:11.850]  I'm getting the days so confused.
[31:11.970 --> 31:17.350]  Yeah, Friday, there was a hearing that allowed them to, I think, look over the documents.
[31:17.550 --> 31:19.370]  There was something after the raid.
[31:27.230 --> 31:29.950]  I have heard, which was packed with journalists.
[31:30.110 --> 31:39.210]  And whenever you go into a federal court building, if you're not a lawyer, and if you don't have an active case, you cannot bring any electronic devices into the courthouse.
[31:39.330 --> 31:47.090]  So all of these journalists that were packed into the courtroom had no cell phones, had no tablets, had no laptops, literally had nothing.
[31:47.190 --> 31:49.990]  They were being held by federal marshals on the ground floor.
[31:50.410 --> 32:04.330]  So when this happened, everybody freaked out, and there was a mass exodus over to, you know, outside the court, and they had to go down and wait online to get their phones back from the federal marshals when they could have just used a payphone, a copper line,
[32:04.490 --> 32:05.730]  and then called in the report.
[32:05.910 --> 32:07.630]  Just like they used to do in the 50s.
[32:08.210 --> 32:09.450]  Yeah, I got a scoop for you, boss.
[32:09.990 --> 32:10.930]  Was there a payphone?
[32:11.050 --> 32:12.170]  Well, actually, you weren't there, so you don't know.
[32:12.270 --> 32:13.670]  I wonder if there was a payphone right outside.
[32:13.850 --> 32:19.730]  There are payphones in the Southern District of New York, but I think they're pretty hard to locate now, and people probably don't even think about using them.
[32:19.990 --> 32:21.690]  Wow, that's a great point right there.
[32:21.910 --> 32:22.710]  Tell me about it.
[32:22.870 --> 32:24.090]  Copper lines and pay funds.
[32:24.210 --> 32:25.330]  That's why we have to save them both.
[32:25.670 --> 32:26.030]  Exactly.
[32:26.690 --> 32:27.050]  Exactly.
[32:27.350 --> 32:31.710]  Half of them wouldn't have quarters or know the numbers they have to call by heart.
[32:31.870 --> 32:38.070]  I'm also thinking, you know, one of those reporters might have had somebody on the street that could have just yelled out the window what was going on.
[32:38.390 --> 32:39.250]  Lowest tech ever.
[32:39.470 --> 32:40.890]  I don't think the window's open.
[32:41.230 --> 32:43.030]  You'd have to yell really, really loudly.
[32:43.410 --> 32:45.370]  Yeah, and they block out almost all the noise.
[32:45.430 --> 32:47.210]  You could hear a pin drop in the courtrooms there.
[32:47.390 --> 32:47.690]  Wow.
[32:47.890 --> 32:49.790]  But we digressed, I think, from the original.
[32:49.790 --> 33:13.630]  The original point was, you know, we've been doing some monitoring, we've been doing some digging, and based on this system that I've developed in-house in our law firm, which collects DNS, or domain name system intelligence, what we're able to do is locate all of the domain names that the GOP had registered as part of this anti-Comey smear campaign,
[33:13.690 --> 33:18.110]  and in anticipation of the anti-Comey smear campaign.
[33:18.690 --> 33:28.610]  And we did this by first identifying all of the domains that related to Comey, and then collecting intelligence about every single one of these particular domains.
[33:28.610 --> 33:33.890]  Okay, so let me just ask you, how were you able to tell that these were registered by the GOP?
[33:34.110 --> 33:44.190]  Well, there's a lot of different indicia, because, and this sort of relates to another story, all of the registration information was hidden behind a privacy proxy.
[33:44.470 --> 33:51.510]  So when you did a who is lookup on the particular domain, you would see no information whatsoever about the registrant.
[33:51.630 --> 33:55.550]  You would see, you know, something indicating that it's behind a privacy proxy, and it's protected.
[33:55.550 --> 33:56.930]  I find that incredibly annoying.
[33:57.130 --> 34:00.830]  It used to be back in the day, you could always do a who is on a site, and see who registered it.
[34:00.890 --> 34:08.790]  Even if it was a fake name, you could figure out who it is, and I think that's kind of important to know who actually, you know, has set up this website.
[34:09.490 --> 34:09.850]  Exactly.
[34:10.150 --> 34:11.650]  These days, everything is anonymous.
[34:12.250 --> 34:23.470]  That's quite true, and in fact, this is going to get worse next month when the GDPR comes into effect in Europe, and that's going to affect what kind of, what kinds of who is data is going to be publicly available.
[34:23.690 --> 34:25.750]  A lot of this is actually going to go dark.
[34:26.030 --> 34:38.210]  Information like the registrant's name, the email address, the technical contact phone number, any kind of information that could be used to actually contact a human being is subject to regulation under the GDPR.
[34:38.210 --> 34:41.310]  It's called who is, not who isn't, you know?
[34:41.630 --> 34:42.570]  That's true, yes.
[34:42.670 --> 34:43.850]  You've got to get something out.
[34:44.090 --> 34:50.190]  I mean, it's a very, very good point, but I mean, the law here is essentially the law, and it applies to everybody.
[34:52.090 --> 35:03.150]  A colleague of ours, and a longtime listener as well, Ben Hancock, I think will tweet out his story later on this evening, but he wrote a great article about this and about GDPR and interacting with who is.
[35:03.350 --> 35:09.430]  There may even be a quote in there from one of our talking heads on the show, but...
[35:09.430 --> 35:10.270]  I hope it's not me.
[35:10.370 --> 35:11.290]  I never say anything worthwhile.
[35:11.930 --> 35:13.070]  But it's an important point.
[35:13.190 --> 35:23.650]  This is really going to change the way law enforcement works, the way individuals can look up who owns particular domain names, and to an extent, the way emergency response is done.
[35:23.930 --> 35:26.610]  We've digressed again, because we need to get back to...
[35:26.610 --> 35:26.890]  However...
[35:26.890 --> 35:34.810]  So yeah, your point is, what you found, we will no longer be able to find, and even what you found isn't really all that you could have found.
[35:34.810 --> 35:38.010]  Actually, it's sort of the opposite point, I want to make.
[35:38.010 --> 35:38.590]  I understood that.
[35:38.770 --> 35:38.990]  Wow.
[35:39.150 --> 35:43.210]  Actually, because all of this was hidden behind a privacy proxy.
[35:43.330 --> 35:45.390]  So you can assume that this is all just garbage, right?
[35:45.450 --> 35:48.090]  Assume that this data behind a privacy proxy doesn't exist.
[35:48.290 --> 35:49.530]  How could you get past that?
[35:49.730 --> 35:54.250]  Well, there's other data points that you can collect about domain names based on the DNS system itself.
[35:54.250 --> 35:59.830]  There's all kinds of public information that you can query about domains and servers and configurations.
[36:00.190 --> 36:14.210]  And one thing that was... in particular, once we collected all this data, the registration times of other domains became really, really relevant, because you saw a slew of other Comey-related domain names being registered within seconds.
[36:14.370 --> 36:14.490]  Okay.
[36:14.570 --> 36:19.390]  You can tell that somebody went on a rampage and registered a whole bunch of anti-Comey domains.
[36:19.610 --> 36:26.470]  But how can you tie that back to existing domains from the GOP that already were in existence?
[36:27.010 --> 36:35.390]  Well, you wouldn't necessarily tie them back into domains that are in existence, but you would tie these back to a single actor who performed the registration at that particular time.
[36:35.530 --> 36:50.370]  Because otherwise, it would be, I think, a really extreme coincidence that several people around the world are registering anti-Comey domains using exactly the same registrar, the same server configuration, and all within seconds of each other.
[36:50.370 --> 37:02.090]  So when you look at this data and you look at the way the servers are configured, the IP subnet that they're on, things like that, you begin to see a very accurate picture of a single actor behind several registrations.
[37:02.730 --> 37:20.250]  And what we're also able to find as well is several domains that were registered prior to the actual lioncomey.com domain that was part of this, that is the major domain that is the focus of the anti-Comey smear campaign.
[37:20.350 --> 37:21.050]  How do you spell that?
[37:21.790 --> 37:27.110]  L-Y-I-N-Comey, C-O-M-E-Y.com.
[37:27.250 --> 37:29.190]  Is lying with a G taken?
[37:29.390 --> 37:29.690]  It is.
[37:29.770 --> 37:33.350]  That's actually one of the registrations that the GOP made, as a matter of fact.
[37:33.510 --> 37:34.870]  That's the first one I would have done.
[37:35.210 --> 37:36.230]  Yes, exactly.
[37:36.490 --> 37:46.670]  Well, what's also interesting is through the same intelligence collection techniques, we were also able to identify all of the various cyber squatters that have popped up around lioncomey.com.
[37:46.770 --> 37:48.170]  And that's actually quite funny.
[37:48.290 --> 38:05.030]  But the GOP was somewhat smart about this because they also registered variations of lioncomey.com, anticipating typo squatting and then redirecting these back to lioncomey.com to ensure that they had the maximum amount of traffic being directed to lioncomey.com.
[38:05.030 --> 38:09.490]  Okay, so lioncomey.com is the main site and that site is up.
[38:09.690 --> 38:18.990]  So let me see if I understand correctly, you're able to look at where that's hosted and compare that to existing sites that are already tied to the GOP?
[38:19.150 --> 38:19.510]  Yes.
[38:19.730 --> 38:26.230]  And looking at specifically the registration times, that's what indicates a common actor here, together with the same registrar.
[38:26.410 --> 38:27.670]  It was name cheap.
[38:29.370 --> 38:38.190]  Lioncomey.com, however, has a different host because it's the server... I'm sorry, it's the domain that is going to be getting the most traffic.
[38:38.430 --> 38:39.830]  So that's actually hosted by AWS.
[38:40.310 --> 38:43.290]  All the others redirect to lioncomey.com.
[38:43.670 --> 38:53.090]  From their registrar, they forward to Lioncomey, which is hosted on AWS, which is the Amazon virtual service.
[38:53.270 --> 38:59.270]  Yeah, and that can probably handle large bursts of traffic and other sort of cool stuff.
[38:59.390 --> 39:00.430]  I just want to ask one question.
[39:00.770 --> 39:02.530]  Where does Lioncomey go?
[39:03.710 --> 39:04.330]  Lioncomey?
[39:04.330 --> 39:05.690]  What is on that site?
[39:05.830 --> 39:07.890]  Did you... I missed that, I think.
[39:08.270 --> 39:08.410]  Oh.
[39:08.550 --> 39:11.070]  Where does the... When you go to the site, what is it?
[39:11.090 --> 39:11.790]  Does it go to the GOP?
[39:11.790 --> 39:12.810]  I'm going there right now.
[39:12.850 --> 39:14.730]  I mean, obviously, it's not that obvious, right?
[39:14.730 --> 39:20.690]  Oh, it's a really well-designed website about why James Comey is not credible.
[39:20.990 --> 39:21.090]  Okay.
[39:21.090 --> 39:21.870]  So there is content.
[39:22.050 --> 39:23.210]  Oh, there's lots of content.
[39:23.230 --> 39:23.490]  All right.
[39:23.550 --> 39:23.810]  Absolutely.
[39:23.850 --> 39:24.130]  Just curious.
[39:24.290 --> 39:24.670]  Just curious.
[39:24.930 --> 39:27.250]  Wait, is it Lioncomey or Lioncomey?
[39:27.350 --> 39:28.370]  Any way you like it.
[39:28.670 --> 39:30.350]  With a G or without a G?
[39:30.350 --> 39:31.950]  Either one will take you there.
[39:32.150 --> 39:33.230]  L-Y-I-N.
[39:33.330 --> 39:35.690]  I got a pop-up as stand with President Trump.
[39:36.050 --> 39:36.470]  There you go.
[39:36.610 --> 39:37.290]  I don't think so.
[39:37.430 --> 39:38.110]  I'm going to close that.
[39:38.270 --> 39:38.690]  Stand away.
[39:38.890 --> 39:54.470]  It's not directly affiliated from the content there, but what you've surmised is by these dates and other sort of telltale signs that it is pretty much the GOP or their ilk.
[39:54.470 --> 39:55.210]  That's right.
[39:55.310 --> 39:55.650]  That's right.
[39:55.790 --> 40:04.190]  And I should note as well that I believe that there should be an interesting story coming out about this by our friends over at Motherboard and Vice.
[40:04.370 --> 40:07.050]  And once that does come out, we'll tweet that.
[40:07.150 --> 40:11.630]  We'll make sure that we tweet that out at Hacker Radio Show on Twitter.
[40:11.810 --> 40:12.510]  I hate Twitter.
[40:12.610 --> 40:13.230]  I can't stand these.
[40:13.330 --> 40:14.950]  Hacker Radio Show, yes, our Twitter account.
[40:15.050 --> 40:16.970]  But a couple of things here.
[40:17.030 --> 40:35.610]  First of all, wouldn't it be a very simple thing for whoever does this kind of thing in the future, whoever falls out of favor when they register a site attacking them, to simply stick it in the cloud and not have anything be similar to previously existing sites so that you can't tell who actually registered it?
[40:36.370 --> 40:36.810]  Maybe.
[40:36.810 --> 40:41.610]  They could try to do this as some kind of outlier, but they generally don't.
[40:41.750 --> 40:45.050]  You know, they do this as in preparation for something.
[40:45.190 --> 41:00.070]  And what we also saw, or were able to identify, were the domains that we believe were registered ahead of the Lion-Comey campaign that may have been discarded at the last minute in favor of the Lion-Comey.com.
[41:00.270 --> 41:03.390]  So, you know, for instance, we found domains like Comey Facts.
[41:03.530 --> 41:04.450]  Comey is a liar.
[41:05.670 --> 41:06.870]  Oh, no, the site just went down.
[41:07.430 --> 41:09.450]  No, the connection timed out.
[41:09.510 --> 41:14.070]  I was seeing all these anti-Comey comments on Nancy Pelosi.
[41:14.170 --> 41:15.950]  Everybody said bad things about him.
[41:15.990 --> 41:17.390]  I think I even criticized him at one point.
[41:17.530 --> 41:20.090]  We are talking about it on WBAI.
[41:20.110 --> 41:22.790]  Well, now it's... you can't reach it anymore.
[41:22.950 --> 41:23.410]  What happened?
[41:24.430 --> 41:26.310]  Listeners, no, we didn't mean for you to take it down.
[41:26.370 --> 41:27.510]  We were having fun with this.
[41:27.670 --> 41:28.930]  Yeah, well, we have a lot of listeners.
[41:28.930 --> 41:33.890]  They're all just maybe taking the opportunity to browse over this domain.
[41:34.090 --> 41:40.370]  Comey is one of three people, by the way, responsible for Donald Trump being elected president, in my opinion.
[41:40.630 --> 41:42.950]  And you guys can take the rest of the show to guess who the other two are.
[41:43.070 --> 41:44.390]  Mark Zuckerberg and Hillary Clinton?
[41:45.150 --> 41:50.030]  Well, okay, Hillary Clinton's a good one, but you can't really... yeah, I don't think that's entirely fair.
[41:50.590 --> 41:52.850]  I don't think she really had that as her goal.
[41:52.950 --> 41:55.430]  But yes, she got... Mark Zuckerberg is definitely one.
[41:55.550 --> 41:57.790]  And I think you all know who the third one is.
[41:59.070 --> 41:59.710]  Is it me?
[42:00.050 --> 42:00.910]  No, it's not you, Rob.
[42:01.150 --> 42:01.390]  Okay.
[42:01.710 --> 42:02.150]  Thank goodness.
[42:02.770 --> 42:03.470]  The third one.
[42:06.010 --> 42:07.410]  I'm at a loss right now.
[42:07.410 --> 42:08.310]  Sean Hannity.
[42:08.870 --> 42:09.510]  Keep thinking.
[42:09.670 --> 42:09.930]  Keep thinking.
[42:10.150 --> 42:10.410]  All right.
[42:10.670 --> 42:10.810]  Yeah.
[42:11.170 --> 42:14.030]  Actually, Sean Hannity, that's actually a really, really good one.
[42:17.830 --> 42:19.330]  But, yeah, I don't know.
[42:20.130 --> 42:20.770]  I'm sorry.
[42:20.770 --> 42:22.390]  I just can't think of...
[42:22.390 --> 42:23.370]  Anthony Weiner.
[42:23.510 --> 42:24.210]  What about Bannon?
[42:24.510 --> 42:25.350]  I mean, he was like...
[42:25.350 --> 42:30.790]  Anthony Weiner, yeah, I guess in a way, because we hadn't done all that, it wouldn't have shown up on his server, it wouldn't have been a big scandal.
[42:31.790 --> 42:36.730]  But no, that's a bit of a... I mean, you know, we can all take credit in one way or another.
[42:36.730 --> 42:38.210]  But, no, they're...
[42:38.210 --> 42:38.750]  No Bannon?
[42:39.490 --> 42:39.930]  Vladimir Putin?
[42:39.930 --> 42:40.770]  This is Julian Assange.
[42:40.950 --> 42:42.450]  You're listening to WBMI.
[42:42.450 --> 42:43.730]  Oh, I forgot about him.
[42:43.750 --> 42:45.550]  Stay strong and keep listening.
[42:45.770 --> 42:47.070]  You forgot about Julian?
[42:47.310 --> 42:48.450]  No, don't tell him I said that.
[42:48.570 --> 42:49.570]  But, wow.
[42:50.230 --> 42:52.850]  I was walking past his residence a couple of weeks ago.
[42:53.130 --> 42:54.010]  Actually, I didn't see anyone.
[42:54.830 --> 42:57.990]  I hope he's okay, because he's been in there way too long.
[42:58.110 --> 43:00.610]  He really should just come out and let's see what happens.
[43:00.830 --> 43:01.150]  You know?
[43:01.310 --> 43:04.530]  And let's defend him if anything does happen.
[43:04.670 --> 43:07.150]  But, you know, I'm concerned about his health.
[43:07.350 --> 43:09.470]  I've heard all kinds of rumors and things.
[43:09.710 --> 43:14.510]  But I do want to go back to your original question here, though, which is, you know, can they just hide these kinds of things?
[43:14.730 --> 43:17.030]  Well, I think the answer is, frankly, no.
[43:17.590 --> 43:23.450]  Because with the way in which the domain name system works is there's a lot... it has to be public to a certain extent.
[43:23.670 --> 43:31.910]  There are some really sophisticated ways that you can hide a domain, but chances are I'll be able to identify it before you hide it, and then we'll know that it exists.
[43:32.630 --> 43:34.570]  And I think this is incredibly important.
[43:34.570 --> 43:52.830]  When you look at this particular type of data, or any kind of information operation or campaign like this, if you start to see these things cropping up, and you look at it either historically or going forward, what it allows you to do is get a glimpse at the thought processes of your adversaries.
[43:52.930 --> 43:56.410]  You know what the GOP was thinking when you look back at these particular domains.
[43:56.750 --> 43:58.850]  This is how they're going to attack Comey.
[43:58.930 --> 44:04.690]  You can begin to read the tea leaves about the methodologies and how they're going to target him.
[44:05.430 --> 44:17.170]  And then you also have additional information that you can glean from this, like the technical configuration of the particular servers, how much traffic they're anticipating, how they're doing this, what are the content management systems that they're being used.
[44:17.330 --> 44:22.450]  And then you may even be able to get a glimpse at the content before they make it live.
[44:22.730 --> 44:28.490]  So the messaging may also be divulged by the fact that they're doing this on the internet.
[44:29.450 --> 44:38.090]  And I think, you know, this is this is really kind of critical, because it demonstrates that no matter how you're doing this, we can eventually find it out.
[44:38.270 --> 44:45.570]  And we will find it out in certain instances, if we're looking carefully, when you're mounting that kind of attack.
[44:45.750 --> 44:50.590]  And I think more people need to be watching this, because this is going to be happening more and more frequently.
[44:50.590 --> 44:54.450]  Well, and the other part to my question was, so the Republicans did this.
[44:54.710 --> 44:55.450]  So what?
[44:55.610 --> 44:58.130]  I mean, would you expect them to do exactly this?
[44:58.610 --> 44:59.550]  I think so.
[44:59.770 --> 45:11.050]  I think, you know, this is a bit unprecedented in the sense that the GOP is attacking somebody who's essentially a civil servant, people that they were praising several months before.
[45:11.250 --> 45:12.990]  And it's highly personal.
[45:12.990 --> 45:14.390]  They attack high school kids.
[45:14.610 --> 45:16.090]  This should not surprise us.
[45:16.270 --> 45:17.410]  I know, I know.
[45:17.570 --> 45:21.970]  I mean, look, I think this goes to my point, which is, this is par for the course these days.
[45:22.030 --> 45:23.190]  And we have to watch it.
[45:23.250 --> 45:25.470]  And we have to be very vigilant about these things.
[45:25.490 --> 45:29.590]  And we should know how to counter message them before they start.
[45:29.770 --> 45:35.490]  And my final question here is, when did they register these, these, these sites?
[45:36.050 --> 45:46.490]  Well, most of these sites, the lioncomey.com and the variations thereof, were registered at the end of March of 2018, 28 March, 2018.
[45:46.810 --> 45:47.470]  So that was about...
[45:47.470 --> 45:52.870]  They knew a book was coming out for months, and they probably knew that it wasn't going to be very complimentary of Trump.
[45:53.030 --> 45:56.330]  And there were earlier ones that were registered earlier than that.
[45:56.410 --> 45:58.770]  And some registered towards the beginning of the year.
[45:58.970 --> 46:06.130]  But most of the ones that turned into or were a variation of lioncomey.com are registered on 28 March.
[46:06.530 --> 46:06.790]  Interesting.
[46:06.970 --> 46:07.070]  Rob?
[46:07.310 --> 46:13.770]  And this really speaks to the power of, and we've spoken about this on this program before, but the power of what might be termed as metadata.
[46:14.350 --> 46:16.170]  Because this is not the straight who is data.
[46:16.290 --> 46:17.270]  This has nothing to do with that.
[46:17.370 --> 46:26.570]  This is just basically the ancillary things that people don't really think about when they're purchasing a domain or when they're instigating some kind of campaign like this.
[46:26.650 --> 46:33.490]  And just looking at some of the names on here, you know, Comey Lies, Creepy Comey, Slimey Comey, Verizon Sucks, Verizon Eats Poop.
[46:33.610 --> 46:35.230]  That's... Oh, wait, that's an older one.
[46:35.610 --> 46:46.590]  But yeah, it's, you know, could they have registered dozens and dozens of domains and tried to scatter shot them a little bit so it didn't look like they were all registered together?
[46:46.810 --> 46:47.250]  Maybe.
[46:47.370 --> 46:48.170]  Would they have thought to do that?
[46:48.250 --> 46:48.910]  Probably not.
[46:49.290 --> 46:51.990]  The other question is, how do people find these sites?
[46:52.490 --> 46:55.690]  Are they linked to somewhere or they come up with search engines?
[46:55.690 --> 46:56.950]  No, they don't.
[46:56.990 --> 46:58.750]  They don't exist anywhere on the internet.
[46:58.910 --> 47:03.650]  It'd be extremely hard to find them without the data set that we have internally in our law firm.
[47:03.810 --> 47:13.170]  But I think the important thing that I'm hearing and what you're saying is that it is a way that is measurable because the registrars themselves are sort of a bottleneck in the process.
[47:13.170 --> 47:28.510]  If you want to do something unmasked or in bulk as a campaign or a slogan comes out, I would say the way to find this stuff is follow the language in a lot of the speeches and taglines for various targets of the administration.
[47:29.290 --> 47:34.590]  And then you're able to follow if it is that important.
[47:34.690 --> 47:52.830]  If it's important enough to become a part of this sort of bulk registration that is, as Alex said, measurable, you can then sort of follow the registration as part of their sort of defensive tactics in shaping the messaging.
[47:53.470 --> 47:54.190]  That's true.
[47:54.430 --> 47:55.090]  That's true.
[47:55.290 --> 47:58.390]  It is very difficult, I think, for members of the public to find this stuff.
[47:58.490 --> 48:03.390]  But we developed this entire system really to protect our clients and identify threats.
[48:03.430 --> 48:06.810]  And it can be used to detect these types of campaigns as well.
[48:06.810 --> 48:07.590]  Yeah.
[48:07.830 --> 48:18.450]  And it's like, if we're not actively sort of looking for these things, you're missing out on what is measurable, what we can detect and sort of track and, and, and thus sort of follow the tactics and so on.
[48:18.650 --> 48:21.190]  I'd like to open up the phones for the few minutes we have left.
[48:21.350 --> 48:24.650]  Area code 347-335-0818.
[48:24.930 --> 48:26.450]  347-335-0818.
[48:26.770 --> 48:31.050]  Alex, let me just ask you, so you were searching, I guess, for, for the string Comey.
[48:31.930 --> 48:33.590]  Did you find any other interesting ones?
[48:33.650 --> 48:35.150]  Maybe any that praised him?
[48:35.150 --> 48:46.430]  I will tell you this, actually, when you do a search and you find domains that just contain James Comey in them, what was really interesting is that there aren't all that many.
[48:46.670 --> 49:02.030]  And all of the domains that, well, not all of them, but I would say a vast majority of the domains that contain the string James Comey are political registrations for James Comey for president, James Comey 2020, James Comey 2020.
[49:02.310 --> 49:02.790]  He's running?
[49:02.790 --> 49:03.890]  I don't know.
[49:04.070 --> 49:12.570]  But there are a ton of registrations that relate to some kind of political bid for James Comey.
[49:12.750 --> 49:15.150]  So, yeah, more interesting stuff you can get from the DNS.
[49:15.770 --> 49:16.050]  Interesting.
[49:16.250 --> 49:17.310]  Let's take a phone call.
[49:17.410 --> 49:17.770]  Good evening.
[49:17.910 --> 49:18.390]  You're on Off the Hook.
[49:18.450 --> 49:18.690]  Go ahead.
[49:19.330 --> 49:20.270]  Yeah, okay.
[49:21.330 --> 49:27.950]  Why is what remains of the left wing, which aren't very many people, defending Jim Comey?
[49:28.010 --> 49:28.910]  I mean, I don't get it.
[49:28.950 --> 49:30.430]  He's just another crooked Fed.
[49:30.590 --> 49:34.510]  Just because Trump is worse, that doesn't... why... why do we have to pick?
[49:34.770 --> 49:37.150]  We always have to pick one side or another side.
[49:37.270 --> 49:38.210]  I don't like any of them.
[49:38.590 --> 49:38.750]  Okay.
[49:38.750 --> 49:41.690]  I don't know why we have to pick between Comey and Trump.
[49:42.050 --> 49:43.490]  I don't know if anyone's doing that.
[49:43.710 --> 49:45.110]  Well, I mean, people are, but... Well, you are.
[49:45.430 --> 49:45.850]  You are.
[49:45.970 --> 49:46.710]  How are we doing that?
[49:47.550 --> 49:56.370]  Because you're on there for the last 10 or 15 minutes talking about how, you know, that the GOP is going after Comey.
[49:56.530 --> 49:57.230]  So what?
[49:57.350 --> 49:57.890]  Who cares?
[49:57.970 --> 49:59.470]  He's just another crooked Fed.
[49:59.730 --> 50:03.930]  Just because, you know, you're trying to defend him.
[50:03.990 --> 50:05.230]  That's what it looks like to me.
[50:05.230 --> 50:07.010]  Well, I didn't get defense out of that.
[50:07.010 --> 50:11.310]  I got that we're noticing that this is happening and giving the technical reasons why, Rob.
[50:11.450 --> 50:18.810]  Yeah, we don't have to particularly like James Comey to realize that it's interesting that the GOP is using this kind of smear campaign against somebody.
[50:19.090 --> 50:24.650]  I mean, they could use the same thing next time against somebody we like, or maybe not, but like, it's something that's happening that's of interest.
[50:24.730 --> 50:28.490]  I think it's more interesting that they're not, they're not defending him.
[50:29.610 --> 50:34.130]  That the right wing isn't, that the GOP isn't defending him.
[50:34.410 --> 50:36.050]  That is interesting as well.
[50:36.050 --> 50:36.590]  You're right.
[50:37.130 --> 50:38.450]  It's totally reversed.
[50:39.330 --> 50:39.810]  Okay.
[50:39.990 --> 50:40.650]  Totally reversed.
[50:40.970 --> 50:42.430]  Well, your point is taken.
[50:42.730 --> 50:42.970]  Thanks.
[50:43.030 --> 50:43.770]  Thanks for calling.
[50:44.350 --> 50:44.710]  Okay.
[50:44.910 --> 50:45.330]  Very good.
[50:45.490 --> 50:45.670]  Good night.
[50:46.310 --> 50:49.210]  Again, our phone number 347-335-0818.
[50:49.390 --> 50:51.030]  You know, I don't think you have to take sides here.
[50:51.090 --> 50:52.770]  I think you just have to notice what's going on.
[50:53.070 --> 50:54.490]  And that's what we do here.
[50:54.710 --> 51:01.070]  A lot of people think we take sides when we criticize people, but basically we'll criticize other people as well.
[51:01.610 --> 51:08.990]  And I find that, you know, when, when we're accused of supporting one candidate over another candidate, we never supported either candidate.
[51:09.090 --> 51:18.910]  We just basically gave opinions and the people who support the candidate that we criticized are very defensive and assume that that means we have to be the enemy.
[51:19.230 --> 51:19.710]  Okay.
[51:19.770 --> 51:20.390]  Let's take another phone call.
[51:20.450 --> 51:20.710]  Good evening.
[51:20.810 --> 51:21.430]  You're on off the hook.
[51:21.510 --> 51:21.730]  Go ahead.
[51:22.170 --> 51:22.510]  Yes.
[51:22.610 --> 51:26.710]  I'd like to say besides my freedom, I want my landline.
[51:27.030 --> 51:27.510]  All right.
[51:27.730 --> 51:28.450]  Tom from the Bronx.
[51:28.450 --> 51:30.330]  I imagine you have a landline.
[51:30.570 --> 51:32.150]  I have it, but you know what?
[51:34.530 --> 51:40.790]  Verizon has sent all kinds of characters over the doors over here.
[51:40.790 --> 51:42.330]  This building has Fios.
[51:42.650 --> 51:46.290]  They got a guy outside your house waiting for you to step out so that they can disconnect your line.
[51:46.310 --> 51:47.090]  We know about this.
[51:47.250 --> 51:49.590]  Yeah, but what I'm saying is this.
[51:49.930 --> 51:52.270]  I had individuals knock on my door.
[51:52.450 --> 51:53.470]  Do you want Fios?
[51:53.890 --> 51:55.710]  I said, no, I don't want Fios.
[51:56.290 --> 51:59.670]  And I said, give me a reason for it.
[51:59.870 --> 52:01.750]  There's two women.
[52:01.890 --> 52:03.910]  There's another woman that chimed in with her.
[52:04.070 --> 52:06.830]  And they have advertising techniques.
[52:07.150 --> 52:09.690]  The two of them started to talk at one time.
[52:09.690 --> 52:10.730]  I swear to you.
[52:11.930 --> 52:15.650]  This is techniques they use, like advertising techniques.
[52:16.010 --> 52:17.190]  Another character.
[52:17.310 --> 52:18.490]  It's like good rep, bad rep?
[52:18.710 --> 52:20.930]  Another character comes to my door.
[52:21.250 --> 52:23.190]  He says, don't you want money?
[52:23.470 --> 52:24.930]  He talks like that.
[52:25.150 --> 52:31.290]  He was selling peepholes, you know, for the door looking glass.
[52:31.290 --> 52:32.450]  Selling peepholes.
[52:32.710 --> 52:33.250]  What a job.
[52:33.370 --> 52:33.510]  Wow.
[52:33.630 --> 52:33.810]  Okay.
[52:34.270 --> 52:36.450]  And there's all kinds of other characters.
[52:36.450 --> 52:43.390]  Because somebody else said, you know, it's only a few months before Fios chimes in.
[52:43.430 --> 52:44.810]  Why don't you sign now?
[52:45.050 --> 52:46.410]  He said, I don't want Fios.
[52:46.870 --> 52:51.610]  They said, if one doesn't work, they send some other character to the door.
[52:51.830 --> 52:53.410]  I swear to God, it's like a sitcom.
[52:53.730 --> 52:55.170]  Don't you have like a buzzer or something?
[52:55.330 --> 52:56.230]  Who's letting these people in?
[52:56.530 --> 53:01.990]  No, they just, they get in here because this building is an odd building.
[53:02.210 --> 53:03.650]  The ownership here.
[53:03.810 --> 53:04.090]  Uh-huh.
[53:04.630 --> 53:08.770]  And I swear to God, like there's something political with this building.
[53:08.910 --> 53:11.090]  I really want to hear about this, but we don't have time.
[53:11.430 --> 53:14.630]  Well, anyway, there's a lot of shenanigans going on.
[53:14.670 --> 53:15.170]  I'm sure.
[53:15.330 --> 53:15.890]  I'm sure there are.
[53:16.370 --> 53:18.050]  Not every building has chaos.
[53:18.310 --> 53:26.810]  Talk to your neighbors and find out if there's others there that are also going to be missing their landline if that plain old telephone is removed.
[53:26.810 --> 53:28.650]  They claim you have to sign for it.
[53:29.170 --> 53:29.970]  Well, organize, Tom.
[53:30.090 --> 53:31.390]  You've got to organize the people around you.
[53:31.530 --> 53:32.550]  Go to that website.
[53:32.830 --> 53:33.790]  Register your comments.
[53:33.850 --> 53:34.590]  You can make a difference.
[53:34.810 --> 53:36.330]  It's very hard to do that.
[53:36.590 --> 53:38.550]  There's people that have Fios in the building.
[53:38.550 --> 53:40.310]  I hope that they never give it up.
[53:40.950 --> 53:42.510]  That they never give up their landlines, you mean?
[53:42.890 --> 53:43.290]  Yeah.
[53:43.370 --> 53:49.450]  I hope they don't because they say, oh, you have to give it up because it's only a few months to give it up.
[53:49.470 --> 53:52.190]  I said, I don't want to give my landline up.
[53:52.370 --> 53:52.810]  That's right.
[53:53.150 --> 53:57.990]  And they have everybody to the super gloving up around saying to me, don't you want Fios?
[53:58.150 --> 53:59.510]  I said, no, I don't want Fios.
[53:59.890 --> 54:01.250]  Especially if it's not broken.
[54:01.830 --> 54:01.990]  Yeah.
[54:02.250 --> 54:03.470]  Don't fix it if it's not broken.
[54:03.590 --> 54:05.270]  Thank you, Tom, for that call from the Bronx.
[54:05.610 --> 54:08.330]  I really want to know all about his building and his quirks and things like that.
[54:08.410 --> 54:09.290]  I know there's a good story there.
[54:09.810 --> 54:11.830]  Let's see if we have time for one more phone call.
[54:12.010 --> 54:13.810]  347-335-0818.
[54:14.330 --> 54:21.270]  Almost universally, I'd say people who call up and talk to us want to at least preserve these things, even if they don't have one themselves.
[54:21.710 --> 54:22.930]  You know, landlines are important.
[54:23.230 --> 54:23.830]  Good evening.
[54:23.970 --> 54:24.450]  You're on Off the Hook.
[54:24.550 --> 54:24.790]  Go ahead.
[54:25.850 --> 54:26.710]  Hey, how you guys doing?
[54:26.910 --> 54:27.050]  Good.
[54:27.070 --> 54:27.330]  How are you?
[54:28.130 --> 54:29.070]  Hey, I'm all right, man.
[54:29.370 --> 54:32.010]  But hey, Comey was just working for one of the black schools.
[54:32.230 --> 54:34.570]  I think they had Comey working at Howard University.
[54:35.050 --> 54:35.450]  Okay.
[54:36.150 --> 54:42.350]  Yeah, he had a... They probably got a call saying that he was taking up for Comey.
[54:42.650 --> 54:48.130]  But I don't understand why we even give credibility to anyone in both parties.
[54:48.590 --> 54:50.770]  It seems like they're not working for us.
[54:50.910 --> 54:52.430]  They're working for other people.
[54:52.530 --> 54:53.470]  They're working for corporations.
[54:54.010 --> 54:55.290]  Like, this is not even a democracy.
[54:55.630 --> 54:56.670]  It's not even a republic.
[54:57.130 --> 54:58.090]  It's a oligarchy.
[54:58.230 --> 55:01.830]  Like, when I listen to WBA I keep hearing people talking like we're free.
[55:02.130 --> 55:03.850]  Like, we have rights around here.
[55:04.130 --> 55:08.750]  Like, I don't never hear nobody talking really, saying what reality really is.
[55:08.890 --> 55:10.390]  Like, our votes don't matter.
[55:10.830 --> 55:11.930]  The air don't matter.
[55:12.110 --> 55:13.170]  Our water don't matter.
[55:13.410 --> 55:14.530]  They're tapping our phone.
[55:14.630 --> 55:15.610]  They're tapping our TV.
[55:16.090 --> 55:17.130]  Like, we control nothing.
[55:17.330 --> 55:21.290]  And when I hear WBA, even... Like, that's the only station I could listen to.
[55:21.470 --> 55:24.750]  And I'm hearing this democratic rhetoric coming out of everybody's mouth.
[55:25.030 --> 55:27.030]  Yo, both parties... Yo, I'm black.
[55:27.130 --> 55:28.510]  I'm a black man from North New Jersey.
[55:28.710 --> 55:30.230]  I hate Obama more than Trump.
[55:30.650 --> 55:33.870]  I think he's worse than Trump to me because he's actually black.
[55:34.050 --> 55:38.050]  And he's exploiting our pain for them to make money to help corporations.
[55:38.390 --> 55:39.690]  I know... I'm going to get off.
[55:39.790 --> 55:40.570]  I don't want to stay on forever.
[55:40.850 --> 55:43.050]  But like, I need somebody to start speaking to us.
[55:43.310 --> 55:45.890]  Like, we know this is not a democracy or a republic.
[55:46.330 --> 55:48.270]  When is somebody going to start saying that?
[55:48.790 --> 55:50.450]  Sir, one thing I want to say to you.
[55:50.850 --> 55:52.230]  Come here and do a radio show.
[55:52.310 --> 55:52.910]  I think you should.
[55:53.530 --> 55:54.470]  How can I get there?
[55:54.590 --> 55:55.430]  I'll come right now.
[55:55.570 --> 55:58.150]  Well, not right now, but come to... I'm sorry to listen.
[55:58.270 --> 55:59.550]  I'm sorry to listen to Amy Goodman.
[55:59.710 --> 56:01.210]  I'm sorry to listen to all these people.
[56:01.310 --> 56:03.210]  Well, you know... I don't even know where they're coming from.
[56:03.310 --> 56:05.130]  There are a lot of differing opinions.
[56:05.310 --> 56:07.510]  And, you know, we have to be open to all those opinions, obviously.
[56:07.730 --> 56:08.890]  But you have a lot to say.
[56:09.030 --> 56:11.550]  And I think you should take advantage of the media outlets.
[56:11.630 --> 56:14.970]  And WBAI is the media outlet that is open.
[56:15.150 --> 56:16.530]  Are journalists opinion makers?
[56:16.750 --> 56:22.210]  Or do they tell you the truth, tell you facts, and tell you like scientific evidence to guide their analysis?
[56:22.470 --> 56:24.770]  Or people just tell you opinions that come from their behind?
[56:25.130 --> 56:26.170]  I don't know which one it is.
[56:26.350 --> 56:31.750]  Well, I'm pretty sure that every journalist is biased to some degree and has an agenda of one sort or another.
[56:31.890 --> 56:32.710]  They're not journalists.
[56:32.870 --> 56:33.750]  They're scribes.
[56:34.150 --> 56:36.930]  A journalist reports evidence, reports what they see.
[56:37.270 --> 56:39.450]  You don't just make up stuff and call yourself a journalist.
[56:39.610 --> 56:40.390]  You just cry.
[56:40.690 --> 56:41.130]  That's true.
[56:41.150 --> 56:43.110]  But nobody is non-biased.
[56:43.210 --> 56:45.750]  And I think people who say they are are fooling themselves.
[56:46.350 --> 56:47.190]  I'm non-biased.
[56:47.290 --> 56:48.830]  I go by what the evidence tells me.
[56:49.030 --> 56:51.770]  The evidence tells me this is not a democracy or republic.
[56:52.010 --> 56:53.550]  It's controlled by the oligarchs.
[56:53.610 --> 56:54.590]  So that's what it is.
[56:54.910 --> 56:56.870]  How hard is that to do?
[56:57.050 --> 56:57.610]  It's easy.
[56:57.930 --> 56:59.450]  Obama wasn't for black people.
[56:59.670 --> 57:04.870]  Black people saw the worst decline in their wealth the whole time they've been in America.
[57:05.070 --> 57:06.050]  Even when they were slaves.
[57:06.490 --> 57:08.030]  And like, that's not my opinion.
[57:08.330 --> 57:09.590]  That's a scientific fact.
[57:09.790 --> 57:12.990]  People act like you can't say the facts without being biased.
[57:13.250 --> 57:13.990]  There's a difference.
[57:14.150 --> 57:16.230]  If you're biased, there's something wrong with you.
[57:16.530 --> 57:20.710]  You can't analyze what you have in front of you and tell the truth.
[57:20.850 --> 57:22.690]  But I know I ain't going to take up all your time, baby.
[57:22.730 --> 57:23.710]  I don't want to be the angry caller.
[57:23.710 --> 57:24.330]  No, that's okay.
[57:25.190 --> 57:25.890]  Okay, thanks.
[57:25.970 --> 57:26.490]  Thanks for your call.
[57:26.590 --> 57:27.450]  Thanks for expressing yourself.
[57:27.630 --> 57:28.890]  And please continue to do so.
[57:29.010 --> 57:30.010]  That is what we need.
[57:30.690 --> 57:32.390]  And unfortunately, we're out of time.
[57:32.470 --> 57:37.070]  I could have stayed on the phone for hours to come and that would have been just fine with me.
[57:37.550 --> 57:38.570]  But we're out of time.
[57:39.490 --> 57:47.450]  And of course, we'll be back next week with another show talking more about technology and its various relationships to society.
[57:48.350 --> 57:49.890]  Alex, any more information you want to give out?
[57:50.330 --> 57:52.090]  Uh, no, not necessarily.
[57:52.430 --> 58:00.810]  But, um, you know, you can track all this that we've been talking about, uh, by following Hacker Radio Show or Ayer Bellis on Twitter.
[58:01.450 --> 58:03.850]  And, um, yeah, we'll have more to report next week.
[58:04.030 --> 58:05.230]  And Rob, what is this we're listening to?
[58:05.610 --> 58:13.550]  Uh, this is, uh, Chase by George Guillermo Roeder, uh, best known perhaps as the opening theme to, uh, Coast to Coast AM by Art Bell.
[58:13.690 --> 58:14.130]  Oh, yes.
[58:14.810 --> 58:16.970]  And, uh, he, he passed away this last week.
[58:17.110 --> 58:17.490]  Yes, indeed.
[58:17.910 --> 58:18.510]  All right.
[58:18.650 --> 58:21.370]  Well, with that sad bit of news, we're going to sign off now.
[58:21.510 --> 58:23.490]  Stay tuned for The Personal Computer Show here on WBAI.
[58:23.930 --> 58:28.690]  The station getting two new transmitters, a, uh, a soundboard.
[58:28.990 --> 58:29.830]  We're getting a new phone system.
[58:30.130 --> 58:31.410]  We're getting all kinds of things.
[58:31.530 --> 58:39.770]  And we're going to keep, um, keep moving into the years ahead with, uh, with restored vigor and, uh, spirit and all that kind of thing.
[58:39.830 --> 58:40.630]  We hope you come with us.
[58:40.930 --> 58:43.270]  Write to us, OTH at 2600.com.
[58:43.370 --> 58:44.170]  Become a BAI buddy.
[58:44.330 --> 58:45.770]  Give to WBAI.org.
[58:46.170 --> 58:46.870]  We'll see you next week.
[58:46.970 --> 58:47.090]  Good night.