[00:00.000 --> 00:06.700]  Don't miss the vibrant costumes, decorative floats and sensational sounds from all around the globe.
[00:06.940 --> 00:08.280]  It's all free.
[00:08.760 --> 00:14.800]  Find a place along the dance route or buy tickets to watch from the grandstand at Astor Place.
[00:14.960 --> 00:20.320]  There are free dance lessons in the park or you can shake it loose in the social dancing areas.
[00:20.620 --> 00:24.160]  If you or your group wants to dance this year, register now.
[00:24.440 --> 00:27.900]  All the details can be found at danceparade.org.
[00:28.020 --> 00:28.880]  Shake it.
[00:32.870 --> 00:33.750]  Yeah, okay.
[00:33.950 --> 00:35.610]  It's 8 o'clock.
[00:35.610 --> 00:38.470]  You're listening to WBAI New York.
[00:39.010 --> 00:43.190]  It's time once again for another exciting edition of Off the Hook.
[02:33.820 --> 02:35.100]  And a very good evening to everybody.
[02:35.240 --> 02:36.920]  The program is Off the Hook.
[02:37.300 --> 02:39.360]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you, joined tonight by Rob T.
[02:39.460 --> 02:39.780]  Firefly.
[02:39.780 --> 02:40.580]  Good evening.
[02:40.840 --> 02:41.120]  Alex.
[02:41.620 --> 02:42.080]  Good evening.
[02:42.240 --> 02:42.500]  Kyle.
[02:42.900 --> 02:43.360]  Yeah, what's up?
[02:43.580 --> 02:44.480]  And Jim's here.
[02:44.620 --> 02:44.900]  Hey, Jim.
[02:45.140 --> 02:45.320]  Hello.
[02:45.560 --> 02:45.920]  How you doing?
[02:46.500 --> 02:48.100]  Oh, well, we're all like that.
[02:48.200 --> 02:51.180]  It's been a long period of time.
[02:51.380 --> 02:53.580]  But yeah, we're over the hill, hopefully.
[02:54.220 --> 02:56.060]  Yeah, looking for better things ahead.
[02:57.280 --> 03:01.900]  Tonight, well, tonight we have better things ahead because we are in another fundraiser.
[03:02.000 --> 03:02.400]  That's right.
[03:02.480 --> 03:04.540]  The spring fundraiser has begun.
[03:05.300 --> 03:09.040]  And before you smash your head into the wall, what that means is that spring is here.
[03:09.200 --> 03:11.280]  And it also means that we're still here.
[03:11.840 --> 03:13.800]  And we're going to be doing all kinds of cool things.
[03:14.100 --> 03:19.180]  All kinds of amazing events are in our future here at WBAI.
[03:19.280 --> 03:20.520]  We are still here.
[03:20.660 --> 03:24.440]  We have survived the biggest crises people can possibly imagine.
[03:26.180 --> 03:27.280]  And I don't know.
[03:27.440 --> 03:29.120]  I guess it's only open to the imagination.
[03:30.180 --> 03:35.720]  There's a lot of improvements that we're looking ahead towards and some positive developments as far as infrastructure here.
[03:35.880 --> 03:37.180]  So that goes a long way.
[03:37.180 --> 03:43.560]  And it's a big part of the operating, but also the sort of capital improvements and long-term goals of the station.
[03:43.560 --> 03:51.020]  So that's a big emphasis for this bout of fundraising, I know, along with just sort of our regular need.
[03:51.180 --> 04:00.460]  And one thing I know that is being encouraged is subscribing to the Buddy system so that we have recurring payments on a lot of those contributions.
[04:00.460 --> 04:02.320]  Yes, that's become quite popular.
[04:02.560 --> 04:10.700]  And you can definitely be a part of that, becoming part of the BAI Buddy system.
[04:11.620 --> 04:12.620]  How do you do that again?
[04:13.280 --> 04:22.260]  You can become a BAI Buddy by calling our pledge line, which is 516-620-3602, and asking the operator how they can do that for you.
[04:22.260 --> 04:26.820]  And be sure to mention to them, I hope this is true, that your favorite show is Off the Hook.
[04:27.440 --> 04:34.240]  And so your contributions will not only keep BAI going, but keep Off the Hook in particular going as well.
[04:34.540 --> 04:41.700]  Because, you know, we strive to be part of what goes on around here, 516-620-3602.
[04:41.880 --> 04:51.480]  And you can become a BAI Buddy where it's a regular donation that's automatically deducted from your account on a monthly basis, like any other recurring payment that you might like to set up.
[04:51.600 --> 04:57.080]  You get to decide how much that payment is, as much or as little as you can afford.
[04:57.200 --> 04:58.220]  And every bit of it helps.
[04:58.440 --> 05:11.180]  And this is a really, really important direction, I think, for a lot of community radio stations and other sort of public broadcasts and other forms of media going into the future.
[05:11.180 --> 05:14.820]  Because these on-air campaigns do take a lot of time.
[05:14.820 --> 05:22.060]  They run the risk of taking away from actual programming and that sort of thing.
[05:22.140 --> 05:23.160]  We want to definitely avoid that.
[05:23.300 --> 05:34.180]  We want to keep people engaged and just remind them that this is a way that they can know that while they're listening to WBAI and Off the Hook, that they're sustaining.
[05:34.380 --> 05:36.140]  They're a part of the station.
[05:36.320 --> 05:42.860]  It's just simply not something they have to fill out or necessarily be in action on every single time.
[05:42.860 --> 05:45.600]  One of our pledge drives comes up.
[05:45.980 --> 05:52.520]  So, Kyle, are you saying that the more WBAI buddies we garner, the less time we have to do this on the air?
[05:53.240 --> 05:54.160]  Yeah, to a degree.
[05:54.400 --> 06:01.180]  It definitely will impact the amount that our show is able to raise on behalf of WBAI.
[06:01.320 --> 06:07.800]  And it goes towards, as I said, operating costs and these exciting capital improvements we're so hopeful about.
[06:07.960 --> 06:11.040]  We wouldn't have to do fundraising at all if we had enough BAI buddies.
[06:11.040 --> 06:18.460]  In fact, that radio station we visited in Italy, they had their particular fundraising method.
[06:18.520 --> 06:21.400]  They're very similar to us, except they had...
[06:21.400 --> 06:23.060]  Well, radio is different over there, for one thing.
[06:23.160 --> 06:28.500]  But they had so many people that were pledging minimum of $100 a year every year.
[06:28.580 --> 06:29.500]  And that was a recurring thing.
[06:29.600 --> 06:30.280]  And that was their budget.
[06:30.480 --> 06:32.460]  And they didn't ever have to go on the air and ask for money.
[06:32.460 --> 06:33.160]  Yeah.
[06:33.400 --> 06:46.040]  And they're sort of the opposite, whereas the random donations are, to a lesser extent, a part of their overall operating budget that they're able to raise from their community.
[06:46.200 --> 07:00.240]  So, in other words, most of their community has set up an amount that they can contribute annually that is continually available or is available to the station on a continuing basis without any sort of intervention and sort of set up.
[07:00.340 --> 07:17.440]  And what that does is give them a very solid amount and a pretty good number when you consider all of the members of the community that basically are paying into a fund that can then be allocated as needed during the year.
[07:17.580 --> 07:22.880]  So, we would love to have that model be as successful here at WBAI.
[07:22.880 --> 07:32.340]  And that's one of the reasons I bring it up here on Off the Hook, because we've got a lot of tech-savvy people, probably a lot of auto-pay, and they can set these things up.
[07:32.440 --> 07:35.540]  They prefer it, in fact, because they don't want to be bothered with it.
[07:35.700 --> 07:37.800]  This is a great way you can contribute.
[07:38.140 --> 07:47.480]  And, yeah, we will basically create a very, very large pool of people that are backing the station all the time.
[07:47.900 --> 07:55.480]  And that gives us something that you don't normally get in the traditional non-profit business model, which is a predictable income stream.
[07:56.160 --> 08:09.260]  For us here at BAI to be able to look at the BAI buddies we have and say, okay, we're going to get this amount of money at least next month is such a boon over the traditional model of just, we have no idea how much we're going to raise with our traditional fundraisers.
[08:09.820 --> 08:22.660]  And so that's something that we can do, that we can do actual advanced planning with, you know, make decisions before it's the last minute and just run things a lot more efficiently around here, a lot more effectively.
[08:22.760 --> 08:25.100]  And it's all thanks to listeners like you.
[08:25.480 --> 08:27.820]  Yeah, and put together a budget for yourself.
[08:28.020 --> 08:29.260]  Think very carefully about it.
[08:29.380 --> 08:37.920]  But this is a great, great system that I think allows people to keep that set up, but it's a much longer term contribution.
[08:37.920 --> 08:49.900]  Instead of coming back every drive or every few months, this is like a way of making that commitment, spreading it out, and also taking some of the logistics out of it.
[08:49.980 --> 08:53.460]  As a listener, you're probably busy and would prefer this.
[08:53.640 --> 09:02.980]  And one thing I think to remember for all of our listeners that aren't listening in the New York or the tri-state area here, if you're getting us on podcast, it doesn't really matter.
[09:03.120 --> 09:12.720]  I mean, supporting the radio station means you're supporting off the hook as well because without WBAI, without this station, without the studio, we wouldn't be able to make the podcast.
[09:13.040 --> 09:22.400]  I mean, if WBAI goes away, folds as if, you know, there's a crisis every couple of years and we always survive, but we need support in order to continue to do that.
[09:22.420 --> 09:33.760]  And so if you're listening on podcast, if you're, you know, listening to us a week or two weeks down the road, please consider calling and pledging and supporting WBAI because it's really all one in the same.
[09:33.760 --> 09:37.840]  This show goes away if WBAI goes away.
[09:38.420 --> 09:41.720]  And people may say, well, how come you can't just do the podcast without the radio station?
[09:41.800 --> 09:43.860]  But the thing to remember is that we're radio people.
[09:43.960 --> 09:50.840]  We want to do a radio thing as part of a collective organization of people that are building something bigger than us.
[09:51.340 --> 09:55.940]  So yeah, we could just broadcast out of our garage or something like that, but it wouldn't be the same.
[09:55.940 --> 09:58.260]  And it's always been a supplement.
[09:58.260 --> 10:09.400]  And the real goal is broadcast and the ability to bring in people that may ordinarily not know, be familiar, but also just have that widest possible reach.
[10:09.400 --> 10:12.240]  And that is something you cannot replace with a radio station.
[10:12.400 --> 10:13.160]  Yeah, no doubt.
[10:13.160 --> 10:14.260]  I think you're entirely right.
[10:14.260 --> 10:19.660]  And the fact that this is live radio makes us completely different than any other podcast that you're going to be listening to.
[10:19.740 --> 10:26.320]  There is a lot of other information security-related podcasts, some of them great content, but none of them are on live radio.
[10:26.580 --> 10:30.900]  I mean, this is broadcast out live from a building whose name we shall not mention at the moment.
[10:32.640 --> 10:36.200]  But, you know, this gives it a certain flavor, a certain character.
[10:36.540 --> 10:38.520]  We don't edit this.
[10:38.680 --> 10:45.000]  You know, this is going out live and the podcast is a memorialization of the live radio show as it happens.
[10:45.240 --> 10:49.000]  So some shows are going to be better than others, but there's no editing involved.
[10:49.220 --> 10:51.260]  I mean, this is, you see what you, well, you hear what you get.
[10:51.900 --> 10:52.520]  Absolutely, yeah.
[10:52.520 --> 10:57.580]  And the magic of radio, too, the thing that really draws me, and I know a lot of other people, is the randomness.
[10:57.720 --> 11:10.220]  The people that come upon you just by tuning the FM dial or just tuning to the wrong station by accident or, you know, basically people that didn't turn on their device at the intention of hearing a particular thing.
[11:10.380 --> 11:11.720]  That is the true magic.
[11:11.780 --> 11:14.360]  And also not knowing how many people are really out there.
[11:14.520 --> 11:16.160]  With podcasts, you know everything.
[11:16.400 --> 11:20.900]  You know where they are, you know how long they've been listening to, you know what website they went to before they came to you.
[11:20.900 --> 11:22.800]  And that kind of takes the magic out of it.
[11:23.100 --> 11:24.600]  Well, yeah, I think two points to that.
[11:24.800 --> 11:30.640]  I mean, number one, you're never going to find Tom from the Bronx calling in to a live podcast, right?
[11:30.800 --> 11:40.120]  I mean, we get, you know, all our regular callers, wonderful people calling in, and that's because it's live radio and the podcast is a memorialization of that live radio.
[11:40.320 --> 11:43.680]  You don't ever see that with respect to podcasts.
[11:44.540 --> 11:54.460]  You know, and secondarily, I think that, you know, we have to remember, too, that WBI, it just, it needs support.
[11:54.460 --> 11:55.780]  It's an aging station.
[11:56.260 --> 11:59.440]  It's been around for a really, really, really long time.
[11:59.440 --> 12:03.660]  We've been through so many crises, and we need to get through all of this together.
[12:03.800 --> 12:06.840]  We seem to be out of the woods with respect to the transmitter issue.
[12:07.140 --> 12:09.360]  Well, we can see the clearing.
[12:09.600 --> 12:13.920]  There's still a barbed wire fence, but we can climb that because we have a ladder with a blanket.
[12:14.660 --> 12:16.500]  But yeah, we have a plan.
[12:16.660 --> 12:18.000]  We have many plans.
[12:18.200 --> 12:24.720]  In fact, I can tell you specifically, we're going to have a new transmitter, two new transmitters, in fact, one for the left channel, one for the right channel.
[12:25.480 --> 12:26.420]  No, one's a backup.
[12:26.580 --> 12:26.920]  I'm sorry.
[12:28.140 --> 12:33.680]  But we're going to have a new site that charges us much less than the current site, so we'll be saving money.
[12:33.860 --> 12:36.200]  We'll have a new transmitter, so we'll sound better.
[12:36.580 --> 12:48.420]  We're getting new equipment, so we sound better on this end inside this room, Which really, you know, it doesn't have the best equipment, but hopefully we will have the best equipment or at least decent equipment in the months ahead.
[12:48.620 --> 12:54.040]  Yeah, it gets the job done, but the ergonomics and stuff are nothing like they were when we were down on Wall Street.
[12:54.240 --> 13:02.380]  But again, this is sort of part of those capital improvements and things that have long been sort of put off and, you know, less important.
[13:02.640 --> 13:08.140]  But there are no... well, they are no less important, but they've been less of a priority in recent months.
[13:08.140 --> 13:16.140]  We're getting to that, and that's exciting and all the more reason to contribute whatever possible to the radio station and to Off the Hook.
[13:16.300 --> 13:21.760]  So we have a number of things also to offer tonight, in addition to the radio station as a whole.
[13:22.720 --> 13:27.660]  If you want to get a particular premium, we have some items that we're going to go over.
[13:28.440 --> 13:35.420]  One is something that we actually offered during one of our last fundraisers, I believe the winter fundraiser.
[13:35.420 --> 13:42.740]  But the funny thing is that when we offered this, the station itself, due to that aforementioned ancient transmitter, was off the air.
[13:42.900 --> 13:45.660]  So we were only a podcast on that day.
[13:45.660 --> 13:47.420]  We weren't an actual radio station.
[13:47.620 --> 13:55.980]  So we had our friend Steve Rombaum, the private investigator, come in and graciously offer two packages.
[13:56.400 --> 14:00.520]  Maybe it was more than that, but I think it was two packages of five hours of his time.
[14:00.520 --> 14:03.200]  Well, we have one of those still left.
[14:03.560 --> 14:11.200]  And five hours of Steve's time as a private investigator, you can pretty much find out anything about anyone or anything.
[14:11.840 --> 14:14.300]  Now, Steve has made it clear he's not going to do marital cases.
[14:14.300 --> 14:16.560]  He doesn't want to find out if somebody's cheating on somebody else.
[14:16.900 --> 14:17.860]  I understand that.
[14:17.860 --> 14:18.860]  That makes perfect sense.
[14:19.040 --> 14:19.980]  They probably are.
[14:20.100 --> 14:21.960]  If you suspect that, they probably are.
[14:21.960 --> 14:26.660]  So just save yourself the trouble and file whatever papers you have to file.
[14:27.200 --> 14:30.400]  But if you're looking for... oh, I don't know.
[14:30.740 --> 14:34.280]  Alex, can you think of some examples of things you might want to do with a private eye like Steve?
[14:34.560 --> 14:34.960]  Absolutely.
[14:35.300 --> 14:37.780]  I mean, Steve and I work on many, many cases together.
[14:38.080 --> 14:40.160]  And we have been working together for years.
[14:40.400 --> 14:43.820]  And we met through the radio show and through 2600.
[14:44.080 --> 14:44.940]  So, you know, this is a...
[14:44.940 --> 14:46.520]  Not through a podcast, through a radio show.
[14:46.860 --> 14:50.420]  That's right, through a radio show, through a studio and a radio show, if you can believe that.
[14:50.960 --> 14:54.780]  But one of the cases Steve and I are working on right now has to deal with a financial fraud.
[14:55.640 --> 15:01.400]  A man overseas was tricked into investing into a particular company that wound up being a sham.
[15:01.560 --> 15:02.000]  What's his name?
[15:02.160 --> 15:03.360]  I will not tell you that.
[15:03.480 --> 15:07.000]  You see, this is the kind of high quality treatment you can expect.
[15:07.720 --> 15:11.680]  If somebody tries to get information out of these guys, they won't tell you, no matter how...
[15:11.680 --> 15:11.960]  Please?
[15:12.800 --> 15:13.420]  Absolutely not.
[15:13.440 --> 15:17.240]  No matter how hard you beg, no matter what kind of coercion, if you don't tell me...
[15:17.960 --> 15:19.740]  I should have thought that through before I started the sentence.
[15:19.740 --> 15:22.280]  No, I mean, I have to guard Sean Hannity's secret...
[15:22.280 --> 15:22.600]  Oh!
[15:23.420 --> 15:25.700]  But, of course, sometimes justice just peeks through.
[15:25.940 --> 15:27.400]  We can't rewind that, right?
[15:27.520 --> 15:28.140]  Because we're live...
[15:28.140 --> 15:30.020]  We're live radio, you can't fix it.
[15:30.220 --> 15:30.580]  Well...
[15:30.580 --> 15:32.260]  It's not Sean Hannity, he's not involved in anything.
[15:32.260 --> 15:33.380]  Not at all, not at all.
[15:33.380 --> 15:33.840]  I'm joking.
[15:34.040 --> 15:35.980]  Yeah, you will get amazing...
[15:35.980 --> 15:38.600]  There's only one of these, so you will get amazing quality.
[15:38.900 --> 15:44.800]  If you call 516-620-3602, pledge $500, ask for private eye services.
[15:44.800 --> 15:47.600]  That's 5 hours of private investigation by Stephen Rambon.
[15:47.900 --> 15:52.520]  And if you were to pay for that normally, it would be many times that amount.
[15:52.660 --> 15:56.140]  Yes, but you had preempted my point with respect to Steve, by the way.
[15:56.220 --> 15:56.580]  That's okay.
[15:57.140 --> 16:04.300]  In any event, Steve, let's say Steve was engaged before this financial fraud had actually happened.
[16:04.520 --> 16:11.580]  So, you have an opportunity, you want to invest in a particular company or an organization, but, you know, you might smell something fishy.
[16:11.660 --> 16:26.760]  And even if you don't smell something fishy, if you just hire somebody like Steve, and to be able to do this with the amount of time that Steve is offering to the radio station's listeners for support like this, it can definitely be done to do a little bit of due diligence before you perform an investment,
[16:26.900 --> 16:38.140]  before you engage in a financial transaction that can have major financial consequences for you or your family, could save you a gigantic amount of heartache and lawyer's fees on the back end.
[16:38.380 --> 16:44.980]  I mean, other cases that Steve and I are handling are issues like cyber defamation, cyber harassment.
[16:45.680 --> 16:47.680]  Steve and I work on a number of things.
[16:47.720 --> 16:51.040]  He's worked on matters for me in France and Hong Kong.
[16:51.060 --> 16:54.240]  He has a network of individuals all around the world.
[16:54.240 --> 17:07.520]  We had a really interesting matter that involved getting boots on the ground in Bucharest, Romania last year, and tracking somebody down on the basis of a single photograph, and Steve was able to do it.
[17:07.920 --> 17:14.940]  So he's not only a great guy with, you know, very strong opinions about all kinds of things, but he's an incredibly talented investigator.
[17:15.160 --> 17:20.040]  I can't speak highly enough of him and enough of this particular premium that he's offering.
[17:20.040 --> 17:29.120]  So what will happen is if you call in to 516-620-3602 and pledge $500 for this package, we will take your information.
[17:29.340 --> 17:36.140]  And once you've made the payment and all that, Steve will contact you and we will take it from there.
[17:36.160 --> 17:39.780]  And I guarantee you will be thrilled with that particular package.
[17:39.780 --> 17:50.560]  And one particular point I think is very, well, it's interesting and generous of Steve as well, because, and I hope I'm relaying this accurately.
[17:51.360 --> 17:59.500]  Steve, if I recall correctly, has said that if this engagement of his goes over the allotted amount of hours, I think it's five hours, is that right, Emmanuel?
[17:59.600 --> 18:00.100]  Five hours, yes.
[18:00.100 --> 18:02.360]  So if it's five hours for $500?
[18:03.200 --> 18:03.760]  That's correct, yes.
[18:03.980 --> 18:13.440]  Steve would then continue to work on the engagement at that particular rate, at the rate of $100 an hour, which is a lot less than his ordinary hourly rate.
[18:13.460 --> 18:15.900]  Yeah, but Steve can get just about anything done in five hours.
[18:16.240 --> 18:16.820]  That's true.
[18:17.020 --> 18:20.420]  I mean, you'd have to have some major issues for Steve not to be able to sort them out.
[18:20.420 --> 18:33.080]  You'd have to be like somebody in a really momentous position of power, who was kind of sloppy and dumb and just filled with all sorts of bad decisions and in a lot of trouble.
[18:33.320 --> 18:36.160]  And I can't really think of very many people that...
[18:36.160 --> 18:37.320]  Are you talking about Jeremy Corbyn?
[18:38.240 --> 18:39.240]  I was actually, yeah.
[18:39.240 --> 18:40.140]  Okay, yeah, that's what I thought.
[18:40.320 --> 18:41.220]  I can see right through me.
[18:41.900 --> 18:43.420]  Well, that's not what we're offering, though.
[18:43.480 --> 18:44.460]  We're offering other things, too.
[18:44.480 --> 18:53.980]  So if you don't need private eye services, and you want to pledge a little more than the $500, we also have our...
[18:54.460 --> 18:55.580]  How should I describe this?
[18:55.740 --> 19:00.460]  The keynote series that we have offered a couple of times before.
[19:00.580 --> 19:01.560]  It's proved to be rather popular.
[19:01.840 --> 19:03.520]  We have it in two different versions.
[19:04.160 --> 19:05.400]  You guys can hear the siren, right?
[19:05.480 --> 19:08.420]  You know, when we have a new studio, you won't be able to hear the siren outside.
[19:09.200 --> 19:14.000]  We have every single keynote speaker at all the HOPE conferences we've had.
[19:14.060 --> 19:14.880]  And we've had 11 of them.
[19:15.520 --> 19:17.260]  We're having the 12th one this summer.
[19:17.260 --> 19:18.220]  It's called the Circle of Hope.
[19:18.220 --> 19:20.020]  We can talk more about that later.
[19:20.140 --> 19:24.320]  But for every conference, we've had at least one keynote speaker.
[19:24.460 --> 19:34.180]  And what we're offering here is a package where you get all of those talks on either a DVD, a bunch of DVDs, actually, or one flash drive.
[19:34.480 --> 19:40.740]  You get full video, HD video when available, and every single talk.
[19:40.880 --> 19:42.480]  And there are some amazing talks there.
[19:42.480 --> 19:45.280]  You will hear Edward Snowden.
[19:45.600 --> 19:46.940]  You'll hear Jello Biafra.
[19:47.140 --> 19:47.680]  Aaron McGruder.
[19:47.880 --> 19:49.540]  Aaron McGruder from Boondocks.
[19:51.560 --> 19:52.440]  Kevin Mitnick.
[19:53.040 --> 19:54.680]  All kinds of amazing people.
[19:54.800 --> 20:00.300]  But I want to play an excerpt from one of the ones that we don't talk about as much, and I think we should.
[20:00.940 --> 20:04.820]  This is from the Fifth Hope in the year 2004.
[20:05.720 --> 20:07.520]  Actually, it was the same year that Kevin Mitnick spoke.
[20:07.520 --> 20:09.780]  We had another keynote speaker that year.
[20:10.420 --> 20:11.500]  You may have heard of him.
[20:11.700 --> 20:13.320]  One certain Steve Wozniak.
[20:14.140 --> 20:15.200]  I'm familiar with him.
[20:15.280 --> 20:18.020]  I think he worked for the Apple Computer Company.
[20:18.100 --> 20:19.340]  He kind of started it, yeah.
[20:19.520 --> 20:21.680]  But he never stopped being a hacker.
[20:21.960 --> 20:24.220]  And that is the magic of all of this.
[20:24.340 --> 20:31.000]  That people who are incredibly successful, that have gone on to do amazing things, never forget where they come from.
[20:31.580 --> 20:36.560]  And I just think that's emblematic of this community, what we do for each other over the years.
[20:37.520 --> 20:46.860]  So you will get this talk, which goes, I think, an hour and 45 minutes, as well as all the other talks from all the other conferences that were keynote addresses.
[20:47.140 --> 20:48.760]  And we really have some spectacular people.
[20:48.860 --> 20:53.040]  And we're going to have more spectacular people in the conference ahead and conferences ahead.
[20:53.140 --> 20:55.300]  In fact, you can expect some announcements pretty soon.
[20:55.300 --> 21:04.300]  But for now, we're going to play an excerpt from the Steve Wozniak talk from 2004 and give you the phone number, which is 516-620-3602.
[21:05.040 --> 21:12.560]  A pledge of $75 gets you the Hope Conference keynote series, your choice, flash drive, or DVDs.
[21:12.760 --> 21:15.660]  Again, 516-620-3602.
[21:16.260 --> 21:17.740]  Let's listen to Woz.
[21:19.400 --> 21:21.400]  Hope you're having a great conference so far.
[21:22.240 --> 21:28.400]  On behalf of the many organizers, many volunteers, it's been a true pleasure to be involved with this conference.
[21:30.460 --> 21:36.060]  Our Saturday keynote, someone very special who needs no introduction, Woz.
[21:58.130 --> 21:59.070]  Delighted to be here.
[21:59.210 --> 22:00.310]  This is the right place for me.
[22:00.310 --> 22:06.650]  I brought a Hacker T-shirt with me that had binary numbers with your hand with number 4 on the front, but, oh, well.
[22:08.130 --> 22:13.850]  You know, I'm kind of sorry I missed the lockpick session because it reminded me of a neat lockpick experience I had this year at my company.
[22:14.930 --> 22:18.490]  Somehow, the alarm went off and the key to set... everybody was... the right people were gone.
[22:18.630 --> 22:21.230]  The key to unlock it was in a locked cabinet.
[22:21.750 --> 22:23.350]  How are we going to unlock this cabinet?
[22:23.450 --> 22:24.950]  I said, oh, give me a paperclip.
[22:25.570 --> 22:30.070]  So, I took a paperclip and sat there with a screwdriver and first try, I got it.
[22:32.750 --> 22:37.450]  And then, and then I discovered it had been, it had been unlocked and I had just locked it.
[22:39.050 --> 22:41.670]  And then I sat there for half an hour and I couldn't get it open.
[22:43.990 --> 22:45.390]  Oh, well, what would life be?
[22:46.230 --> 22:50.510]  First of all, yeah, anyone here from Homeland Security Division, raise your hand.
[22:50.830 --> 22:53.730]  Or any other three-letter agency?
[22:57.150 --> 23:09.430]  Okay, you know, you go through life and if you're accomplished and you're successful, you can kind of go into a world and be around a lot of people that are CEOs and, you know, live an established life and, you know, good, strict rules and we got it made.
[23:09.530 --> 23:11.590]  But for me, it was a lot different.
[23:11.870 --> 23:14.970]  Never really even wanted any of the success and all that.
[23:15.070 --> 23:16.590]  Just wanted to design neat computers.
[23:16.590 --> 23:22.890]  So, for me, I've chosen that I'd much rather be around people like all of you, the people in my life, interesting people.
[23:25.670 --> 23:32.730]  You know, obviously we're a threat to everybody who's got money because we have so much of their money now because we're, you know, we know how to get it, right?
[23:34.130 --> 23:38.410]  And when you, you know, when you die, when you die, how are you going to value your life?
[23:38.750 --> 23:40.010]  Did you, did you live it?
[23:40.130 --> 23:41.070]  Did you have a fun life?
[23:41.070 --> 23:49.710]  You know, you could say, well, I achieved this and I had this going on and I'm trying to get this division of my company in shape and I have these clothes and title and salary and money and houses.
[23:50.750 --> 23:55.310]  Or, did you have a ton of laughs every day with your friends and walk around telling jokes and we're happy?
[23:55.510 --> 23:57.290]  Who had the better life, really?
[23:57.930 --> 23:58.910]  So, that's us.
[24:02.050 --> 24:05.070]  Somebody today, I was, yeah, talking to Cheshire and his great phone number.
[24:05.110 --> 24:06.970]  I'm a collector of neat phone numbers.
[24:06.970 --> 24:12.230]  It really started with a thing I had called dial-a-joke and you needed good numbers so you didn't get 2,000 wrong calls a day.
[24:13.190 --> 24:17.790]  And one of the numbers I had was 2-2-1-1-1-1-1-1.
[24:18.650 --> 24:19.050]  Why?
[24:19.290 --> 24:21.450]  A lot of us in this room were the kind of purists.
[24:21.650 --> 24:31.030]  2-2-1-1-1-1-1, by the rules of assigning phone numbers back then, that was the shortest distance you could dial on a dial phone, if dial phones still existed.
[24:31.390 --> 24:34.170]  So, it's kind of like a purism, why it was so much better.
[24:34.170 --> 24:37.730]  You could get no other number that only had 2-2s and 5-1s.
[24:38.190 --> 24:44.690]  Got a million calls on it all the time and they hung up until one day I was booking a flight, which turned out to be Pan Am.
[24:46.490 --> 24:50.390]  So, the next time I got a call and I heard them start, I said, hello, and they started hanging up.
[24:50.410 --> 24:51.490]  I said, oh, you calling Pan Am?
[24:52.130 --> 24:53.930]  And the lady said, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[24:54.070 --> 24:56.550]  I said, well, we're on our lunch break, so what can I do for you?
[24:57.570 --> 24:58.910]  Booked my first flight that day.
[25:01.130 --> 25:10.390]  After about a couple weeks, I figured, uh-oh, the police are going to be, you know, triggered onto this and looking for who's getting people to go to the San Jose airport at 3 in the morning to catch flights that don't exist.
[25:10.450 --> 25:14.230]  So, I started always telling people at the end of the call, I'm just joking.
[25:15.010 --> 25:17.090]  You know how hard it is to get people to believe that?
[25:17.270 --> 25:20.670]  They chuckle, they chuckle, and then they say, okay, how much is it for the ticket?
[25:21.330 --> 25:22.330]  No, I'm just joking.
[25:22.730 --> 25:23.390]  Well, one of the...
[25:23.390 --> 25:25.310]  So, I started trying to stretch it out.
[25:25.310 --> 25:27.670]  Sometimes what we do is a little psychological game.
[25:28.430 --> 25:31.490]  How much can you get people to buy into?
[25:31.630 --> 25:32.650]  How far can you deceive them?
[25:32.810 --> 25:36.510]  So, I started playing this game of the grasshopper special had the lowest flights.
[25:36.530 --> 25:42.230]  If you go through our lesser-used airports, and I would make up places like Billings, Montana, Moscow, Idaho, Amarillo, Texas.
[25:42.450 --> 25:47.370]  If you bounce around all these cities and get to your destination in five hops, your flight can be cheaper.
[25:47.710 --> 25:47.890]  Oh.
[25:49.150 --> 25:54.790]  And one day, so one day I told this guy, you go to Las Vegas, and you go up to our booth and roll the dice.
[25:54.790 --> 25:56.670]  If you get a seven, the next leg is free.
[25:57.590 --> 25:58.930]  And he bought into it.
[26:01.390 --> 26:04.910]  I started trying to sell propeller service flights 30 hours to London.
[26:05.070 --> 26:05.910]  The guy wouldn't take it.
[26:06.010 --> 26:08.250]  But I did sell a 20-hour flight to New York.
[26:10.590 --> 26:13.110]  And so, you know, and we're...
[26:13.590 --> 26:16.250]  And I got an awful lot of my good phone number stories.
[26:16.290 --> 26:18.630]  The one I like the best, well, my 88888888.
[26:18.650 --> 26:21.970]  But I used to get calls on the phone I use at night, and it was somehow the...
[26:21.970 --> 26:32.590]  If you forgot to dial one before the free 888 numbers, which eventually came into existence, if you dialed the service called Bored Housewives, you'd get my phone in bed at 2 in the morning.
[26:34.470 --> 26:35.790]  So, what do you do?
[26:35.970 --> 26:45.510]  When a person calls you, and they're off on a different tangent than reality, they think they have called Bored Housewives, but they've really called Steve Wozniak, well, what do you do?
[26:45.570 --> 26:47.530]  Their mind, to me, is in a creative state.
[26:49.530 --> 26:51.750]  Their mind has invented a story to me.
[26:51.910 --> 26:54.610]  And I want to see how far that creative state...
[26:54.610 --> 26:56.710]  You don't ever want to inhibit creativity, right?
[26:57.330 --> 27:00.690]  So, the word to use is yes, whatever they say.
[27:01.050 --> 27:02.150]  You know, wrong numbers.
[27:02.350 --> 27:03.630]  Oh, I'm just a paramedic.
[27:03.710 --> 27:04.610]  I picked up this phone.
[27:04.870 --> 27:06.370]  Oh, is it a Bronco?
[27:06.550 --> 27:06.810]  Yeah.
[27:07.010 --> 27:07.850]  Is it a white Bronco?
[27:08.010 --> 27:08.410]  Yes.
[27:08.730 --> 27:09.670]  Is it by the reservoir?
[27:09.850 --> 27:10.170]  Yes.
[27:10.750 --> 27:11.510]  Where are you going?
[27:11.610 --> 27:12.030]  I don't know.
[27:12.330 --> 27:13.370]  I better hang up now.
[27:13.470 --> 27:14.410]  It's too much time on this call.
[27:16.170 --> 27:18.530]  So, you know, I don't know.
[27:18.630 --> 27:25.910]  There's a lot of people that don't really grow up with kind of a sense of humor that might be at somebody else's disadvantage in small ways.
[27:25.910 --> 27:27.230]  And I forget.
[27:27.350 --> 27:28.250]  There is a name for this.
[27:28.590 --> 27:33.750]  But those of us who've been down the paths we've been down have an inborn curiosity.
[27:33.910 --> 27:35.070]  Really, it starts when we're babies.
[27:35.150 --> 27:35.990]  You take any baby.
[27:36.090 --> 27:36.650]  They're all hackers.
[27:37.090 --> 27:39.810]  Every baby is trying to push its way out of the crib.
[27:39.990 --> 27:45.730]  You know, crawling around, looking at every door, every cabinet, and trying to open it or touch things and knock them over.
[27:45.930 --> 27:46.910]  So, they're all babies.
[27:46.950 --> 27:54.110]  And they kind of get taught by people what the rules are, where you can go, where you can't, what's the shape of your maze.
[27:54.750 --> 28:00.030]  But somehow, God or nature, whoever makes us, has made us that way from the start.
[28:00.690 --> 28:03.850]  And a lot of us like to get pleasure from the unexpected.
[28:04.230 --> 28:05.710]  Well, what is a joke?
[28:05.990 --> 28:09.770]  Everyone grows up with jokes in every culture, and that's the biggest element of humor.
[28:09.950 --> 28:17.410]  You tell a story along one line, and the punchline is something you didn't expect, a different story that fit the words.
[28:17.670 --> 28:20.530]  And getting pleasure from the unexpected isn't that unusual.
[28:20.530 --> 28:23.430]  But like I said, there are some people that cannot laugh at jokes.
[28:23.990 --> 28:26.730]  Matter of fact, there are some people that hear a joke, and they think it's the truth.
[28:28.810 --> 28:33.590]  We have dreams so often that we're trying to do the things that aren't supposed to be possible.
[28:34.070 --> 28:41.330]  Who would have thought in 1971 that if you put some tones into your own home phone, you could dial anywhere in the world?
[28:41.770 --> 28:44.990]  In 1971, you couldn't reach the world.
[28:44.990 --> 28:52.130]  I mean, it was so expensive, nobody had much of the community outside their own local community, except maybe ham radio operators.
[28:53.870 --> 28:54.390]  Okay.
[28:55.910 --> 29:02.990]  But another thing is, you know, there's this element of what we're doing has some kind of learning, educational value.
[29:03.170 --> 29:05.710]  And it's largely because we're always trying to do the best.
[29:05.810 --> 29:07.510]  We're trying to outdo some other people.
[29:07.670 --> 29:15.510]  We're trying to find slip-ups they had in their code, or things that they didn't think would work this way on a phone company.
[29:15.690 --> 29:17.030]  Searching and searching and searching.
[29:17.210 --> 29:20.790]  But it's really a way of saying, I did something more than someone else.
[29:20.870 --> 29:22.230]  I did the unexpected.
[29:22.550 --> 29:25.390]  So it's a way that we can somehow boast and socialize.
[29:25.590 --> 29:34.390]  I met someone who was a psychology student once that taught me that, well, there's a group of people that sort of I was in that category while I was in college.
[29:35.130 --> 29:40.550]  And they're kind of like socially backwards and out antisocial a bit.
[29:41.750 --> 29:43.150]  They don't communicate well.
[29:43.310 --> 29:46.110]  And to communicate, it comes out as antisocial behavior.
[29:46.410 --> 29:48.310]  Little pranks and that sort of thing.
[29:48.570 --> 29:53.110]  And somehow that's a way of touching other people and having a back and forth communication.
[29:53.410 --> 29:55.070]  And it substitutes for the normal.
[29:55.430 --> 29:58.570]  And, you know, sometimes I think, gosh, I was so shy and quiet.
[29:58.770 --> 30:06.490]  And sometimes by designing something good or doing something unexpected, all of a sudden I'd have people that would talk to me.
[30:06.490 --> 30:09.790]  And it would open up my shell and I'd have something to talk about.
[30:10.050 --> 30:17.130]  Maybe it was too techy at the time, but we really wouldn't have today's technology, the computers, the Internet.
[30:17.330 --> 30:24.110]  We wouldn't be this advanced in the world if it weren't for basically people doing what's called hacking and what we hackers like to do.
[30:24.410 --> 30:26.750]  And, you know, play around and see how far we can get.
[30:27.030 --> 30:39.710]  It turns out that almost every major advance and really new thing that's startling, you talk to the people that invented it in later life, and they all go back to their stories with blue boxes and their stories of, you know, other kinds of electronic pranks and fun.
[30:39.830 --> 30:44.890]  And almost none of them were, like, kind of a serious business student, accountant-type personality.
[30:45.590 --> 30:47.090]  So, really, we'd be...
[30:47.090 --> 30:48.730]  who knows how far backwards we'd be.
[30:49.690 --> 30:50.870]  Ain't that the truth.
[30:50.990 --> 31:07.950]  That's Steve Wozniak from the Fifth Hope Conference in the year 2004 being offered as part of the package tonight for the Hope Conference keynote series, either on DVD or flash drive, your choice for a pledge of $75, 516-620-3602.
[31:08.010 --> 31:10.630]  You'll get the video of that talk, plus so many others.
[31:11.150 --> 31:15.330]  Kevin Mitnick, Aaron Magruder, Jello Biafra, Edward Snowden.
[31:15.570 --> 31:16.890]  The list goes on and on.
[31:16.970 --> 31:19.890]  We've had so many good keynote speakers at our conferences.
[31:20.110 --> 31:23.050]  But the reason we're doing this is to raise funds for WBAI.
[31:23.230 --> 31:24.530]  It's our spring fundraiser.
[31:24.970 --> 31:28.750]  And your call, your contribution, makes a huge difference.
[31:28.970 --> 31:32.530]  But that talk, that talk really is incredible.
[31:33.170 --> 31:35.190]  To my recollection, I don't think he had any notes.
[31:35.190 --> 31:40.110]  I think he was just basically speaking from recollection, which are the best speeches, I think.
[31:40.250 --> 31:45.490]  I don't like people who use slides and teleprompters and things like that.
[31:45.790 --> 31:48.110]  I think so much better when it comes from the heart.
[31:48.390 --> 31:50.550]  And with Steve Wozniak, that's certainly the case.
[31:50.550 --> 31:54.030]  He gets what a hacker is all about, can tell all kinds of stories.
[31:54.790 --> 31:58.610]  You know, I never even thought of the 221-1111 phone number.
[31:58.730 --> 32:03.750]  You realize that the coolest phone number in the world is 1212-221-1111.
[32:04.430 --> 32:05.330]  Somebody has that.
[32:05.470 --> 32:06.430]  I just called it now, actually.
[32:06.530 --> 32:07.070]  It goes to voicemail.
[32:07.350 --> 32:11.270]  But somebody has that number and similar numbers.
[32:11.350 --> 32:16.110]  It doesn't mean anything anymore to people who dial using buttons or, you know, voices or whatever.
[32:16.330 --> 32:21.190]  But the rotary phone, yeah, that was the quickest possible number that you could call.
[32:22.110 --> 32:29.230]  But also, you know, something, a wire connecting and disconnecting quickly could dial that number by accident.
[32:29.370 --> 32:34.910]  And that's why overseas 112 is used for the police.
[32:35.110 --> 32:41.430]  They get a lot of bad calls sometimes because someone's cat sits on the pulse on the phone and dials the number.
[32:42.110 --> 32:45.630]  Whereas here, it's a lot more difficult to dial 911 in that manner.
[32:47.510 --> 32:53.290]  Yeah, I think the Wozniak keynote was, you know, telling in so many ways.
[32:53.570 --> 32:55.970]  I mean, it just sort of strikes at the heart of the hacker culture.
[32:56.070 --> 32:59.250]  And I love the fact that he mentioned, you know, children are essentially hackers.
[32:59.250 --> 33:01.450]  They're constantly exploring, figuring out things.
[33:01.510 --> 33:06.050]  I mean, I see this on a daily basis with my son, who's just extraordinarily curious.
[33:06.310 --> 33:13.670]  And it's maintaining that childlike sense of curiosity throughout your later years, I think that makes you a good hacker.
[33:13.670 --> 33:19.610]  I don't think there's really much of a difference between a hacker and a four-year-old, if you think about it in certain respects.
[33:19.910 --> 33:20.770]  You could take that the wrong way.
[33:20.870 --> 33:22.630]  But yeah, I know your point.
[33:22.630 --> 33:22.870]  And I hope you do.
[33:23.830 --> 33:27.330]  But, you know, kids not only are good hackers, they're good lockpickers.
[33:27.710 --> 33:29.570]  Lockpicker, of course, being a form of hacking.
[33:30.790 --> 33:36.090]  But, you know, you go to any hacker conference and you will see a group of kids that are playing with locks.
[33:36.250 --> 33:37.030]  They're fascinated by them.
[33:37.150 --> 33:38.590]  And their hands are very tiny, too.
[33:38.610 --> 33:41.090]  So they're able to do things that bigger hands can't do.
[33:41.230 --> 33:41.770]  Oh, no doubt.
[33:41.770 --> 33:45.870]  I mean, my son at the last hope was fascinated by the lockpicking village.
[33:46.070 --> 33:48.830]  I mean, we spent several hours there, I think.
[33:48.970 --> 33:51.150]  And he was three at the time.
[33:51.350 --> 33:51.830]  So, yeah.
[33:51.970 --> 33:53.590]  I mean, this year is going to be even more interesting.
[33:54.030 --> 33:55.670]  But, I mean, even other keynotes.
[33:55.730 --> 33:57.110]  Remember Siva Vadiyanathan?
[33:57.390 --> 33:57.990]  Oh, yeah.
[33:58.150 --> 33:58.330]  Yeah.
[33:58.470 --> 34:00.670]  I mean, I just like seeing his last name, Vadiyanathan, right?
[34:00.710 --> 34:01.490]  It's really good.
[34:02.430 --> 34:03.590]  Which conference was that again?
[34:04.110 --> 34:04.810]  Oh, my God.
[34:04.990 --> 34:06.630]  I think that was H2K2, I think.
[34:07.090 --> 34:07.910]  It might have been.
[34:07.990 --> 34:10.030]  Or it might have been H2K or H2K2.
[34:10.270 --> 34:11.210]  It was one of those.
[34:11.310 --> 34:11.430]  Okay.
[34:11.430 --> 34:12.610]  Because it definitely wasn't...
[34:12.610 --> 34:13.750]  Yeah, it probably wasn't.
[34:13.750 --> 34:15.010]  Well, it definitely wasn't the last one.
[34:15.170 --> 34:18.350]  But, you know, he was talking about a lot of issues that related to copyright.
[34:19.450 --> 34:23.230]  And, you know, these are issues that still persist today.
[34:23.530 --> 34:27.570]  You know, we have very, very similar issues that are still lingering or variations on a theme.
[34:27.570 --> 34:41.990]  So when you go back and you listen to these historical keynotes, you can begin to trace the origins of misconceptions, of legal theories, of the technology itself, and understand how it's evolved, quite literally, over the last 20-something years.
[34:42.570 --> 34:46.870]  So these are not only just interesting talks, but I think also historical records.
[34:47.150 --> 34:48.630]  This is so valuable.
[34:48.630 --> 35:07.670]  If only there was a way to look at some of the writing that has been done on hacking, perhaps there was something we could provide if people wanted to do a deeper dive into the history outside of just our conference and those keynotes.
[35:07.830 --> 35:09.570]  Well, Kyle, actually, there is something.
[35:09.710 --> 35:17.610]  There is something you can get your hands on if you're interested in doing some further reading on this subject matter and many, many others involving the hacker world.
[35:17.630 --> 35:26.150]  What I'm referring to is the lifetime subscription to the Hacker Digest, the Hacker Digest Lifetime Subscription is what it's officially called.
[35:26.690 --> 35:29.790]  And that's something we're also offering tonight for a pledge of $100.
[35:30.590 --> 35:43.010]  That's basically your way of getting every single issue of 2600 Magazine from the past, present, and future onto your device, onto your computer, onto your phone, whatever it is you want.
[35:43.250 --> 35:44.750]  Copy it as many times as you want.
[35:45.430 --> 35:47.390]  We have put out a bunch of these already.
[35:47.390 --> 35:55.270]  What we do is we basically bundle each year into a Digest for that year, starting with our first year, 1984.
[35:55.670 --> 35:56.850]  It's a good year to start.
[35:58.150 --> 36:00.950]  And obviously, we're up to 2018 now.
[36:01.310 --> 36:04.450]  The 2017 Digest comes out in about a month.
[36:04.950 --> 36:09.570]  And what we have been doing is we've been releasing the older ones every three months.
[36:09.570 --> 36:12.090]  And we're up to 2001 now.
[36:12.670 --> 36:15.970]  And so that means we'll be releasing 2002 later on this month.
[36:16.210 --> 36:18.670]  And 2003, three months hence.
[36:19.070 --> 36:20.910]  Until we're all caught up and we have everything.
[36:21.070 --> 36:30.110]  Now, what you can do is by pledging $100, you can basically be assured that you'll receive every few months one of these Digests.
[36:30.410 --> 36:31.630]  Until we're all caught up.
[36:31.750 --> 36:36.110]  And then into the infinity of the future for every single Digest that follows.
[36:36.210 --> 36:44.050]  That's for a pledge of $100, it's 516-620-3602, the Hacker Digest lifetime subscription.
[36:44.450 --> 36:46.810]  Now, these are in a digital format.
[36:47.870 --> 36:49.670]  Now, am I correct?
[36:49.790 --> 36:53.570]  And I've just got to assume because I know about e-books and how that all works now.
[36:53.890 --> 36:57.610]  I've got to assume that these are all like locked to one device, covered in DRM.
[36:58.250 --> 37:03.210]  I would have no control over how I could use them or copy from them or do whatever.
[37:03.470 --> 37:04.270]  I'm disappointed in you, Rob.
[37:04.270 --> 37:08.150]  You think that we would do something like that to our readers, to our listeners.
[37:08.210 --> 37:08.690]  No.
[37:09.130 --> 37:09.670]  No, no, no.
[37:09.670 --> 37:10.910]  We don't lock these things.
[37:10.910 --> 37:12.730]  Just like the DVDs and the flash drives.
[37:12.950 --> 37:13.410]  No.
[37:13.590 --> 37:15.930]  You can copy however many times you want.
[37:16.090 --> 37:18.210]  What you get are PDF files.
[37:18.450 --> 37:20.530]  And those can be read on any computer.
[37:20.670 --> 37:22.110]  Those can be read on phones.
[37:22.230 --> 37:24.870]  They can be read on all sorts of e-readers.
[37:25.350 --> 37:27.390]  It's up to you how you do that.
[37:27.470 --> 37:31.090]  You will receive either a link or the actual PDF file via email.
[37:31.910 --> 37:44.090]  And once you call 516-620-3602, pledge $100, and demand the Hacker Digest lifetime subscription, you will be on that list that gets that every few months.
[37:44.130 --> 37:45.370]  It's an amazing feeling.
[37:45.550 --> 37:50.690]  You know, if I wasn't on the sending end of it, I know I'd really be thrilled to see that come into my mailbox every couple of months.
[37:51.030 --> 38:00.850]  You know, what's very interesting to me here is to sort of build upon what I had mentioned before, I think, you know, the historical record of these Digests together with the keynotes is something that's really powerful.
[38:01.570 --> 38:03.050]  I do a lot of presentations.
[38:03.110 --> 38:05.710]  I run around the country and talk to various people.
[38:06.090 --> 38:10.590]  Gave a big presentation last week, University of Wisconsin, on election security and whatnot.
[38:11.450 --> 38:15.530]  And one of the things you constantly run into is the fact that these are issues that we're revisiting.
[38:15.690 --> 38:25.110]  If you think about election security, this is something that came up in 2006 with Edward Felton when he was investigating security of these voting devices at Princeton University.
[38:25.410 --> 38:40.590]  But when you have something like the Hacker Digest, if you are somebody who has to present to your superiors or to boards or if you're a speaker, these are amazing historical records of the very fact that these are not new issues that we're facing.
[38:40.810 --> 38:49.270]  There is stuff within the pages of 2600 that you would not believe was addressed when it was addressed, you know, 20-something years ago or a decade ago.
[38:49.490 --> 38:56.710]  Issues that we're dealing with on a constant and day-to-day basis in the information security world as it exists today.
[38:57.270 --> 39:08.350]  And even people that you would never have expected to grace the pages of 2600, if you look carefully, you can even find people like Robert Mueller being discussed.
[39:08.570 --> 39:09.190]  He was in there.
[39:09.990 --> 39:16.250]  What we're talking about just to reiterate is the Hacker Digest Lifetime Subscription Premium.
[39:16.970 --> 39:21.850]  That's yours for your contribution to WBAI and off the hook.
[39:22.010 --> 39:35.190]  I have read through on one of these digests actually in particular that's touching on some of the very things you're discussing, both the e-book topic and voting systems.
[39:35.530 --> 39:37.690]  Did you know that that year...
[39:37.690 --> 39:37.990]  What year?
[39:37.990 --> 39:56.910]  Uh, 2001, there was the trying of, uh, of someone, uh, first, uh, person tried after the DECSS case, uh, in 2000 and 1999, um, for, for translating e-book files into PDF.
[39:57.370 --> 40:21.910]  And in fact, um, uh, this was something that, um, that 2600 and, and, uh, the magazine was, uh, was, uh, answering and discussing and said basically that, um, members of the community mobilized and got the word out instantly and the story made it into the news even though Adobe was convinced by public outrage to withdraw its complaint against this person who had converted e-book files,
[40:22.130 --> 40:24.450]  uh, to the portable document format.
[40:25.210 --> 40:26.070]  the U.S.
[40:26.210 --> 40:29.150]  government led by attorney Robert S.
[40:29.370 --> 40:36.850]  Mueller who later, uh, later that year, uh, when the, um, that particular issue went to press became director of FBI.
[40:37.030 --> 40:37.490]  Isn't that amazing?
[40:37.750 --> 40:49.070]  It's that cyclical nature of these stories, um, and, and there's many other topics, such as voting machines, such as students, uh, standing up to authority that we've revisited, uh, in many of these other years.
[40:49.230 --> 40:57.630]  I'm sure, Rob, you've got some, and, uh, and, uh, it's the most exciting part of, um, this, uh, Hacker Digest lifetime subscription.
[40:57.810 --> 40:59.010]  Wait, you have 2001.
[40:59.610 --> 41:00.470]  Rob, you have another year?
[41:00.690 --> 41:02.190]  I, I have 1989.
[41:02.750 --> 41:02.970]  Wow.
[41:03.110 --> 41:06.350]  Where the magazine was, uh, was just a slip of a child, five years of age.
[41:06.630 --> 41:07.930]  Well, it can't possibly be relevant today.
[41:08.350 --> 41:08.710]  1989?
[41:09.310 --> 41:09.950]  Oh, no.
[41:10.130 --> 41:15.210]  I mean, uh, you had things like, uh, references to the, um, where is it?
[41:15.270 --> 41:32.090]  Here we are, the start of a long debate on whether copying is the same as stealing, uh, you know, the untimely death of icons like Abbie Hoffman, you know, other, other magazines and things that were, uh, popping up, a new version of Tap, um, emerging,
[41:32.570 --> 41:41.810]  but, uh, you know, unfortunately, uh, the, the new, the sad news in here that, uh, the 2600 BBS network, um, kind of collapsed in upon itself.
[41:42.090 --> 41:46.450]  Yeah, we're still looking at restarting that, but, you know, we're busy, so we just haven't had time to get to it.
[41:46.570 --> 41:56.250]  But, uh, a lot of, a lot of people when we're, complaining about the content, um, they wanted more emphasis on telephones and less on computers because, you know, who's got computers?
[41:56.410 --> 41:57.090]  Who's playing with those?
[41:57.310 --> 42:09.710]  But, uh, I think, uh, I think history may be, uh, there were, there were, uh, uh, rebukes of, of, uh, the magazine, a particular, um, a cover in 2001 that, uh, indicated vote Nader.
[42:10.150 --> 42:16.390]  That was, uh, it was injected into the artwork and, uh, the magazine was accused of telling people how to vote.
[42:16.570 --> 42:22.670]  God, God forbid, uh, to which the magazine responded, uh, basically saying, look, we're not telling you how to vote.
[42:22.850 --> 42:28.350]  uh, this is just a sentiment and look, if it's gotten so many people upset, then so be it.
[42:28.430 --> 42:29.750]  You know, we're doing something there.
[42:30.150 --> 42:33.510]  But, uh, there's also mention of the, uh, Galactic Hacker Party in Amsterdam.
[42:33.590 --> 42:36.370]  Oh, yeah, that was the year of the Galactic Hacker Party, 1989.
[42:36.650 --> 42:37.010]  Wow.
[42:37.310 --> 42:41.310]  Yeah, and, uh, you know, who knows if that ever led to anything special in, uh, hacker history.
[42:41.450 --> 42:44.670]  Only every conference in the United States, but, uh, including our own.
[42:44.970 --> 42:46.310]  But, uh, Alex, you have a year or two?
[42:46.570 --> 42:54.370]  Uh, I do, and in fact, I, I would love to read something because I, I think it gets to the heart of, uh, several issues that have been brought up here, if you don't mind me reading.
[42:54.410 --> 42:56.470]  I don't, I just mind that I don't have a year, but go ahead.
[42:56.690 --> 42:56.910]  Very good.
[42:57.390 --> 43:10.950]  Uh, for the summer, I'm reading this a quote, for the summer 1998 cover, it's a quote from the Digest, of course, uh, we did a call back to our own cover of a year earlier which had an orangutan, the masthead style of Wired, in words that said, quote,
[43:11.190 --> 43:12.230]  special spoofing issue.
[43:12.450 --> 43:17.330]  This one instead had an artist's illustration of none other than Attorney General Janet Reno.
[43:17.670 --> 43:21.130]  Again, with the Wired masthead style in words, special legal issue.
[43:21.330 --> 43:22.550]  But it didn't end here.
[43:23.030 --> 43:28.630]  Clever readers were soon able to deduce that the eyes of the orangutan and Janet Reno were the same.
[43:29.090 --> 43:32.630]  So, I, here's what I want to bring up with respect to this.
[43:32.850 --> 43:37.650]  Uh, if you recall back in 1998, Janet Reno was the Attorney General for which president, Emmanuel?
[43:38.030 --> 43:39.210]  Uh, for, for President Clinton.
[43:39.350 --> 43:39.830]  President Clinton.
[43:40.030 --> 43:40.130]  Yes.
[43:40.130 --> 43:41.430]  And what was his political affiliation?
[43:41.790 --> 43:44.310]  Uh, he was, well, I feel like I'm on the, on the stand here.
[43:44.390 --> 43:45.090]  He was a Democrat.
[43:45.490 --> 43:55.090]  Well, this is my point, that if you go back into these records, these would dispel the notion that we are political operatives here on the radio station.
[43:55.270 --> 43:55.410]  Mm-hmm.
[43:55.410 --> 43:58.010]  We are equal opportunity critics.
[43:58.270 --> 44:08.810]  I mean, we criticize Democrats, we criticize Republicans, we don't just criticize President Trump because he's an easy target and, you know, a bit of a fool, but it's always about the issues for us.
[44:08.810 --> 44:13.130]  If you go back far enough in any administration, we've always been very critical of them.
[44:13.210 --> 44:16.890]  And I think this is a great historical record of that particular point.
[44:17.810 --> 44:23.290]  You know, there's a lot more I could go into, but I think the 1998 issue also has a lot to do with the Free Kevin movement.
[44:23.470 --> 44:27.610]  I mean, Kevin Mitnick, who was imprisoned, I think, for several years back in 1998.
[44:27.970 --> 44:30.750]  There's a great memorialization of that particular movement.
[44:30.870 --> 44:33.350]  That was the year we started making the film, Freedom of Downtime.
[44:33.430 --> 44:34.070]  Right, Freedom of Downtime.
[44:34.210 --> 44:48.030]  And one of the things that's wonderful about the Digest is if you just have the magazines, there's all these esoteric references and symbols, and it would take a long time for you to decipher all of them, but the Digest really helps you in that respect.
[44:48.030 --> 44:51.030]  I'm not going to tell you you're going to get everything and every reference and every cover.
[44:51.030 --> 44:51.990]  We don't remember everything.
[44:52.510 --> 44:53.450]  That makes sense.
[44:53.650 --> 44:55.750]  Sometimes, you know, there are things we even miss.
[44:56.070 --> 44:56.210]  Yeah.
[44:56.830 --> 44:58.710]  Yeah, but we try to explain them all.
[44:58.930 --> 45:00.510]  Yeah, and it's right there.
[45:00.510 --> 45:07.390]  So you have this easy way to decipher what everything means in all these particular covers and it's incredibly fascinating.
[45:07.630 --> 45:15.410]  Even if you've been a long time 2600 subscriber, the Digest is going to help you get a lot of the stuff that you missed 20 years ago.
[45:15.990 --> 45:16.390]  Wow.
[45:16.930 --> 45:30.110]  Just the summations alone of each year takes up many, many pages just explaining everything, outlining the various changes that took place when we expanded pages, when we moved sections around, when we started new features.
[45:31.050 --> 45:37.410]  And then in addition to all that, you get all the content that appeared in every page of every issue of that year.
[45:37.650 --> 45:41.810]  Oh, I have another great quote if I can read this actually which sort of makes the same point.
[45:41.990 --> 45:49.270]  So you had these quotes that were printed in the staff boxes of each issue and summer 1998 was this particular quote and I think it's hilarious.
[45:50.310 --> 45:52.830]  I do not have a personal relationship with a computer.
[45:53.030 --> 46:00.590]  It got so confusing as to what was on the computer, what wasn't on the computer, what was on the hard drive, what was on the soft drive.
[46:00.690 --> 46:01.430]  Oh yeah, soft drive.
[46:01.610 --> 46:05.010]  That it made it easier for me to just do my work with pen and pencil.
[46:05.190 --> 46:10.070]  And this wasn't from a government official in Atlanta which it sounds like it could have been today.
[46:11.090 --> 46:13.230]  Again, that was actually Attorney General Janet Reno.
[46:14.110 --> 46:17.930]  At least she was being honest and not pretending she knew anything she didn't.
[46:17.930 --> 46:20.310]  I'll give her that much but yeah, that was something.
[46:20.610 --> 46:21.510]  Again, 1998.
[46:21.850 --> 46:26.170]  You could never get away with saying something like that today because you're expected to know these things.
[46:26.550 --> 46:38.290]  And on the subject of like the more things change the more they stay the same, some stuff in the 1989 summation is really fun because we have things like phone companies not playing well with each other.
[46:38.470 --> 46:41.690]  There was the AT&T crash of January 15, 1990.
[46:42.230 --> 46:42.670]  Oh yeah.
[46:42.690 --> 46:56.010]  And when that happened AT&T's own operators were found to be dishonest with people who like couldn't get their calls through and they refused to tell people how they could possibly make their calls with a competing provider.
[46:56.650 --> 46:59.490]  And there was something that's really fascinating.
[46:59.670 --> 47:10.530]  There was a phone company called Teleconnect who decided that they were going to block access for their they were going to block their customers' access to phone numbers belonging to BBSs that they found unacceptable.
[47:11.450 --> 47:17.710]  So we had a service provider deciding what their customers could and could not access through their service.
[47:17.950 --> 47:19.650]  How did they find that if it was unacceptable or not?
[47:19.850 --> 47:20.170]  I don't know.
[47:20.250 --> 47:21.810]  Did they log in themselves and look it over?
[47:21.970 --> 47:25.910]  No, they were encouraging people to actually report these numbers to the company so they can block them.
[47:26.010 --> 47:27.310]  And what are we dealing with now?
[47:27.430 --> 47:32.910]  We're dealing with net neutrality which is basically the same thing in another guy's and another level of technology.
[47:33.450 --> 47:45.830]  And yeah, this stuff is ongoing and a flip through the archives of 2600 is a great snapshot of what was going on in the world just politically but also technologically and there's really nothing new under the sun.
[47:46.830 --> 47:57.210]  Yeah, and I would just let's see I wanted to add a couple things from this in addition but what we're talking about everyone yeah, I am in 2001.
[47:57.870 --> 48:10.250]  Again, as you said more things change more than the same there's a lot of those types of examples within the digest and again the premium is the Hacker Digest lifetime subscription package.
[48:10.410 --> 48:12.950]  Why don't you let me do that because I'm the only one stuck here in 2018.
[48:12.950 --> 48:14.530]  You guys are in all the cool years.
[48:14.690 --> 48:26.670]  You're in 2001 Alice, you're in 1998 and Rob you're in 1989 and you guys are just like you're not even looking at me you're looking at all the things that are in these issues.
[48:26.990 --> 48:43.710]  Well, it's funny I can understand that but if you want that for yourself call 516-620-3602 a pledge of $100 gets you everything all the digest from the past and all the digest from the future every issue of 2600 Magazine a pledge of $100 516-620-3602 go ahead.
[48:43.770 --> 48:54.690]  Just a few more examples anecdotes some of our readers accused us of having radically fringe views for defending WTO protesters and continuing to criticize gun culture.
[48:55.230 --> 48:55.750]  Hmm.
[48:56.510 --> 48:56.790]  Wow.
[48:56.930 --> 49:11.170]  How dare we criticize anyway Ahead of the curve Exactly and also we reported on multiple instances of Verizon being accused of vandalizing the DSL lines of competitors which sounded a lot like what Rob had just mentioned from 1998.
[49:11.350 --> 49:22.170]  I don't know if it was that issue it might have been in 2000 where we were threatened with a lawsuit by Verizon before anyone even knew who Verizon was and we were really proud that we might be the first lawsuit from this company.
[49:22.170 --> 49:48.430]  Brilliant brilliant and of course the discussion of I think more social things there was a lot of comments about young people being involved students being told what to do or not do and standing up as I said to authority but this is sort of discussing hacker philosophy and you know what it means to be a hacker it says we attempted to get people to think about What hacking was really all about.
[49:48.690 --> 49:52.310]  And that's something I think today we continue to strive towards.
[49:52.630 --> 49:54.170]  And what it wasn't about.
[49:54.590 --> 50:11.270]  Suffice to say that if hackers you know seem primarily interested in fashion, image, and putting down anyone who's new or of a certain age, it's quite possible they've simply latched onto our culture, onto a culture they themselves don't fully understand or appreciate.
[50:11.270 --> 50:15.250]  Which I think is as true today in a lot of ways.
[50:15.390 --> 50:20.190]  There's still a lot of misunderstanding and a lot of stuff in the media.
[50:20.350 --> 50:32.110]  A little bit more on the serious side, just lastly here with 2001, it was of course the year of the attacks of 9-11 in New York City.
[50:32.110 --> 50:43.870]  And though there was several cases over the course of the digest that covered legislation like the DMCA, Digital Millennium Copyright Act is what that stands for.
[50:44.170 --> 50:46.390]  Things we basically still live with today.
[50:46.650 --> 50:57.850]  This new interpretation or I guess association with terrorism through the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act.
[50:57.850 --> 51:09.130]  That was something that we saw come in very quickly with the Patriot Act and other sort of emergency powers that were granted after those attacks.
[51:09.130 --> 51:27.830]  And what we're, I think, still seeing some effects and residual attitudes because you've got this sort of ramp up of cyber everything and militarization of computer systems and networks.
[51:28.430 --> 51:33.970]  That seems all, as trendy as it was becoming back then.
[51:34.250 --> 51:40.590]  So that's another thing of note from 2001 and on.
[51:40.750 --> 51:44.090]  There's updates on IRC, which is kind of related to the BBS thing.
[51:44.250 --> 51:46.050]  Again, technology changing, transforming.
[51:46.250 --> 51:56.010]  But again, it's really about communication and people getting the message out to peers and to people that, you know, may be virtually quite, you know, far away, but quite close in a virtual sense.
[51:56.010 --> 52:01.050]  Well, let's give 1989 and 1998 a little bit more of a chance here.
[52:01.110 --> 52:02.310]  What's going on in those periods?
[52:02.550 --> 52:03.710]  Oh, I'm digging this.
[52:03.970 --> 52:06.510]  One running theme, if you've been listening to this program...
[52:06.510 --> 52:06.890]  Where are you, 1989?
[52:07.030 --> 52:07.630]  I'm in 1989.
[52:08.310 --> 52:21.990]  And if you've been listening to this program for any length of time or reading the magazine or whatever, one running theme is always the stupid laws being considered or put into place by people who don't understand technology and trying to badly regulate it.
[52:21.990 --> 52:28.290]  But in 1989, a bill was introduced that would make it illegal for anyone under 21 years old to have a beeper.
[52:28.650 --> 52:31.430]  And this was to fight the ever popular war on drugs.
[52:31.550 --> 52:32.730]  And that's why we don't have beepers anymore.
[52:32.870 --> 52:33.390]  Yeah, exactly.
[52:33.550 --> 52:34.250]  That's it.
[52:34.470 --> 52:35.230]  That's it entirely.
[52:35.450 --> 52:35.990]  Is that what happened?
[52:36.150 --> 52:37.070]  I don't know what happened to them.
[52:37.110 --> 52:38.270]  I still have my beeper.
[52:38.550 --> 52:39.630]  It doesn't go off anymore.
[52:39.890 --> 52:44.890]  There was another law that was actually enacted.
[52:44.890 --> 52:51.810]  And it made it illegal to listen in on frequencies that carried cell phone calls back when they were just openly broadcast, analog, unencrypted.
[52:52.190 --> 52:55.470]  And anyone with the right piece of kit could just tune in and listen.
[52:55.650 --> 52:57.230]  It's still illegal to listen to those frequencies.
[52:57.490 --> 52:59.150]  Yeah, even though there's nothing going on anymore on them.
[52:59.330 --> 52:59.470]  Right.
[52:59.910 --> 53:06.310]  Just to add, in 2001, there was discussion of basically how open the pager signals were.
[53:06.310 --> 53:15.270]  And we encouraged people to continue to scan the airwaves for pager signals just to show the public and educate people that it is widely open.
[53:15.270 --> 53:21.310]  And, you know, your signal from or to a tower is not at all encrypted or at the time was not over that protocol.
[53:21.450 --> 53:23.730]  That's since changed with GSM and other technologies.
[53:24.130 --> 53:24.710]  Yeah, that's right.
[53:24.710 --> 53:28.230]  And I think, you know, voice pagers were really rampant back in the day.
[53:28.250 --> 53:30.250]  And I think maybe even still being used.
[53:30.410 --> 53:32.630]  And a lot of medical doctors used them.
[53:32.730 --> 53:33.910]  How do they still do that?
[53:33.910 --> 53:35.150]  It's so crazy.
[53:35.150 --> 53:39.970]  I mean, they literally broadcast medical information right over the airwaves like that.
[53:39.970 --> 53:40.710]  They can be picked up.
[53:40.770 --> 53:41.830]  It's so idiotic.
[53:42.310 --> 53:44.550]  Yes, the more things change, the more they stay the same.
[53:44.610 --> 54:03.410]  But speaking of people who popped up in old issues of 2600, in 1998, I'm reading here in the Digest about a sort of mobilization of the hacker community against the movie Takedown, which I think was a joint effort by Tsutomu Shimomura and John Markoff,
[54:03.430 --> 54:04.890]  where it came out of that project.
[54:04.890 --> 54:05.890]  Well, they wrote the book.
[54:06.110 --> 54:06.750]  They wrote the book.
[54:06.950 --> 54:07.370]  They wrote...
[54:07.370 --> 54:08.330]  Miramax made the film.
[54:08.470 --> 54:08.970]  Yes, that's right.
[54:09.110 --> 54:09.550]  It was Miramax.
[54:09.630 --> 54:12.570]  And so the protest was outside Miramax.
[54:12.790 --> 54:15.210]  And the owner of Miramax was who?
[54:16.290 --> 54:17.190]  Again, I'm on the stand.
[54:17.190 --> 54:17.810]  How did this happen?
[54:17.970 --> 54:22.910]  Well, the Weinstein brothers were running that, as far as I understand.
[54:23.070 --> 54:23.210]  Yes.
[54:23.330 --> 54:27.290]  And so, again, and I think he even made an appearance, I think, in Freedom Downtime.
[54:27.290 --> 54:28.010]  That is correct.
[54:28.330 --> 54:35.530]  It wasn't anything that was planned, but he actually can be seen in one part of the film exiting a limousine and walking into the building.
[54:35.690 --> 54:38.030]  And we titled it underneath so they could see who it was.
[54:38.130 --> 54:42.950]  And I realized, 1998, that was the height of his harassing period.
[54:42.950 --> 54:47.310]  So he had probably just come from, or it was on his way to harass somebody.
[54:47.310 --> 54:48.430]  So that's something that...
[54:48.430 --> 54:50.270]  We didn't mean to put him in yet another film.
[54:50.390 --> 54:52.030]  We didn't know what was going on.
[54:52.110 --> 54:53.210]  That's the kind of thing that happens.
[54:53.210 --> 54:53.790]  But here he is.
[54:53.890 --> 54:57.590]  I mean, literally 20 years later, his name comes up again.
[54:58.370 --> 55:06.230]  And I think it's fascinating to go back this far and to think that the hacker community was mobilizing against these kinds of iniquities and injustice back then.
[55:06.750 --> 55:12.390]  The Digest is a great way to capture that and get a feeling for it if you're too young or too old to remember.
[55:12.570 --> 55:19.890]  We are going to have to put a cap on this trip down memory lane and come back to the depressing year of 2018, which is where I am.
[55:20.410 --> 55:24.270]  I hope you guys enjoy being in the 80s, 90s, and the aughts, whatever they're called.
[55:25.030 --> 55:37.290]  You can be like Rob, Kyle, and Alex and read all kinds of things and learn all sorts of fun things about technology, how it changes, how it doesn't.
[55:37.610 --> 55:47.390]  If you pledge $100 by calling 516-620-3602, asking for the Hacker Digest lifetime subscription, you will get everything.
[55:47.750 --> 55:53.830]  That's how you get everything that has been written as 2600 since 1984, well into the future.
[55:54.510 --> 56:00.330]  We also have the, if it's still available, the $500 Steve Rambam, five hours of private investigation work.
[56:01.250 --> 56:02.990]  Private iServices is the name of that premium.
[56:03.430 --> 56:08.010]  Again, 516-620-3602 is the phone number to call.
[56:08.010 --> 56:16.910]  And finally, we have for a $75 pledge, the Hope Conference keynote series, your choice of DVD or flash drive.
[56:17.090 --> 56:22.930]  You'll get every single talk presented at every single one of our Hacker on Planet Earth conferences that was a keynote.
[56:23.590 --> 56:27.350]  So yeah, that's pretty damn cool, I think.
[56:27.450 --> 56:30.070]  516-620-3602.
[56:30.210 --> 56:36.110]  And I should point out, if you're not into pledging $100 or $500, any amount you can pledge to us helps.
[56:36.350 --> 56:42.850]  Every bit is appreciated, and every bit helps you get the main premium, which is this radio station and our ability to keep doing what we do.
[56:43.190 --> 56:45.650]  516-620-3602.
[56:45.750 --> 56:49.190]  We will not be on next week, but we'll be back in two weeks.
[56:49.410 --> 56:51.370]  And I believe, Rob, you have something else to add.
[56:51.530 --> 56:54.210]  Yep, 2600 meetings happening all over the world this weekend.
[56:54.450 --> 56:56.310]  Go to 2600.com slash meetings.
[56:56.650 --> 56:57.410]  We'll see you next time.
[56:57.490 --> 56:57.670]  Good night.
[57:04.000 --> 57:04.960]  We'll see you next time.
[57:04.960 --> 57:06.380]  You don't know me.
[57:07.640 --> 57:11.640]  I'm not just one of your many toys.
[57:12.120 --> 57:14.040]  You don't know me.
[57:15.200 --> 57:19.700]  Don't say I can't go with other toys.
[57:38.430 --> 57:40.770]  You don't know me.
[57:42.050 --> 57:45.950]  Don't try to change me in any way.
[57:45.950 --> 57:48.630]  You don't know me.
[57:49.950 --> 57:53.530]  Don't try to change me down, cause I'll never escape.
[58:04.210 --> 58:07.490]  You leave me like I love you.
[58:08.590 --> 58:08.970]  You're...
[59:11.900 --> 59:14.260]  Technology wins again!
[59:14.580 --> 59:19.080]  You're listening to WBAI in New York, the voice of truth.
[59:40.960 --> 59:46.720]  This is WBAI 99.5 FM in New York, and this is Iggy Pop.
[59:46.720 --> 59:46.880]  And this is Wildcat, which is of Lucas produced by UBAI and I.
[59:46.880 --> 59:46.920]  Let's join the show at our show linkedawan!
[59:47.220 --> 59:47.580]  I'm Judas, and I'm not one of his toys in the show going to Mushroom!
[59:47.580 --> 59:47.840]  Yeah, this is how is eaten with old Hatta!
[59:47.840 --> 59:48.060]  And we'll see you later.