[00:00.000 --> 00:06.820]  ...from your smartphone by texting the letters WBAI-241-444.
[00:06.980 --> 00:08.640]  And thank you for your support.
[00:18.940 --> 00:29.760]  Hi, this is Christian McBride and you're listening to WBAI New York 99.5 FM and WBAI.org on the web.
[00:34.830 --> 00:39.570]  And you're listening to Radio Station WBAI in New York.
[00:40.410 --> 00:41.650]  It's July 4th.
[00:41.870 --> 00:53.130]  Today is the day when we celebrate those who came to this country so long ago to make a better life for themselves by keeping our borders safe from those people trying to come to our country today to make a better life for themselves.
[00:54.230 --> 00:55.350]  Happy Independence Day.
[02:36.480 --> 02:38.220]  And a very good evening to everybody.
[02:38.360 --> 02:39.060]  The program is off the hook.
[02:39.140 --> 02:41.500]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday, July 4th.
[02:41.760 --> 02:42.780]  Joined tonight by Rob T.
[02:42.920 --> 02:43.280]  Firefly.
[02:43.520 --> 02:44.100]  Good evening.
[02:45.240 --> 02:45.600]  Voltaire.
[02:45.860 --> 02:46.000]  Hey.
[02:46.320 --> 02:46.940]  And Kyle.
[02:47.260 --> 02:47.800]  Hey, what's up?
[02:47.800 --> 02:48.720]  What's up?
[02:48.840 --> 02:49.660]  What's up, you ask?
[02:49.780 --> 02:51.340]  Well, as I said, it's Independence Day.
[02:51.440 --> 02:51.840]  It's a holiday.
[02:52.260 --> 02:53.820]  They're going to be blowing things up pretty soon.
[02:54.540 --> 02:56.820]  And we had some excitement here in New York City.
[02:57.020 --> 03:01.600]  Some excitement when somebody protested at the Statue of Liberty.
[03:01.720 --> 03:02.320]  Imagine that.
[03:02.580 --> 03:03.300]  Imagine that.
[03:03.420 --> 03:08.720]  A bunch of people unveiled a banner that said... What did they say?
[03:09.040 --> 03:10.080]  It said abolish ICE.
[03:10.300 --> 03:10.980]  Abolish ICE.
[03:11.560 --> 03:11.960]  Amen.
[03:12.280 --> 03:13.160]  Amen to that.
[03:13.420 --> 03:14.120]  And you know what?
[03:14.120 --> 03:17.780]  I'm going to go out on a limb here and say amen to the person who climbed.
[03:17.780 --> 03:20.040]  The Statue of Liberty and closed the whole thing down.
[03:20.240 --> 03:21.260]  It's not like we're using it.
[03:21.420 --> 03:22.060]  It's not like we need it.
[03:22.840 --> 03:24.540]  It's just a relic of the past.
[03:25.280 --> 03:28.880]  You know, driving in, listening to the coverage of this.
[03:29.020 --> 03:32.800]  On CNN, you know, the liberal news media, supposedly.
[03:33.660 --> 03:39.700]  They were just basically talking about how irresponsible this person was and all the lies she's putting at risk.
[03:39.780 --> 03:41.540]  You know, you don't have to climb up there and get her.
[03:41.880 --> 03:43.300]  You know, let her protest.
[03:43.420 --> 03:43.880]  Let her stay there.
[03:43.900 --> 03:45.140]  You don't have to even close down the island.
[03:45.820 --> 03:50.440]  But maybe listen to what she's saying and maybe realize it takes guts to do something like that.
[03:50.560 --> 03:58.420]  So I'm going to go out on a limb and say bravo to you for taking a stand, for actually putting your life at risk and making a statement.
[03:58.600 --> 04:00.100]  That is what people need to do.
[04:00.160 --> 04:02.140]  And we have to stop shying away from it.
[04:02.220 --> 04:03.140]  All I'm hearing is condemnation.
[04:03.140 --> 04:03.700]  Condemnation.
[04:03.800 --> 04:04.420]  Oh, what if?
[04:04.520 --> 04:05.700]  You know, it's dangerous.
[04:05.900 --> 04:07.160]  We shouldn't disrupt things.
[04:07.320 --> 04:08.080]  It was inconvenient.
[04:08.100 --> 04:09.900]  All these tourists, it was ruined.
[04:10.000 --> 04:11.840]  They didn't get to see the Statue of Liberty.
[04:11.900 --> 04:14.380]  You know, you can see the Statue of Liberty from the whole damn island.
[04:14.520 --> 04:15.920]  So don't worry about missing it.
[04:16.040 --> 04:17.400]  It's not going anywhere.
[04:18.220 --> 04:24.320]  But, you know, we need to become a little bit more confrontational, a little bit more unpleasant, a little louder.
[04:25.220 --> 04:25.800]  I don't know.
[04:25.880 --> 04:27.040]  I'm sorry if that offends anybody.
[04:27.320 --> 04:30.360]  As has been pointed out, I mean, the Statue of Liberty herself is an immigrant.
[04:30.620 --> 04:31.020]  She's French.
[04:31.440 --> 04:31.900]  Yeah, yeah.
[04:32.040 --> 04:33.200]  Due to be deported by ICE.
[04:33.420 --> 04:55.020]  I think it would have been appropriate for the police to maybe set up a small charcoal grill, maybe with some traditional Fourth of July food and maybe offer it to her as something sort of a celebratory thing, since they're sort of sharing the moment and the locale on this enjoyable day.
[04:55.180 --> 04:56.240]  And it's a nice weather.
[04:56.540 --> 04:58.880]  She was sort of catching some sun rays there, I guess.
[04:59.080 --> 05:07.820]  It's something to just hear the people on TV, because we can listen to them on the radio as we drive in, talking about how much it costs, because these cops had to work.
[05:08.200 --> 05:10.100]  And, you know, it's not like they were working anyway, I guess.
[05:10.480 --> 05:12.320]  And now she's going to have to be processed.
[05:12.600 --> 05:14.560]  And that's going to... somebody's going to have to come in and book her.
[05:14.800 --> 05:17.220]  All these things that they're laying at her feet.
[05:17.220 --> 05:23.340]  How about the tremendous amount of cost to people from the actions that have been going on that people are protesting against?
[05:23.340 --> 05:24.100]  How about that?
[05:24.100 --> 05:25.880]  We focus on those things.
[05:26.200 --> 05:28.000]  Yeah, democracy is... it's messy.
[05:28.140 --> 05:28.740]  It's expensive.
[05:29.340 --> 05:30.820]  It's not always pleasant.
[05:31.340 --> 05:35.120]  And I think once we realize that, we actually might start making progress.
[05:35.820 --> 05:36.580]  Just a thought.
[05:37.280 --> 05:39.660]  Yeah, I couldn't... it was hard to listen to.
[05:39.660 --> 05:54.620]  It was pretty... just so sickeningly, in all the sympathy and, you know, feigned heroism and so on, for these guys going up there, dragging someone down who has made a choice.
[05:54.780 --> 05:57.320]  Yeah, I mean, she could have come down when she wanted to on her own.
[05:57.400 --> 05:58.980]  You don't have to go up there and drag her down.
[05:59.180 --> 05:59.360]  Exactly.
[05:59.360 --> 06:00.300]  And you don't have to close down.
[06:00.420 --> 06:05.600]  What are they afraid she's going to do up there that's going to affect people inside the statue or on the whole island?
[06:05.960 --> 06:07.700]  I honestly don't understand that.
[06:08.060 --> 06:11.020]  There's absolutely no indication to indicate she was a threat of any sort.
[06:11.160 --> 06:16.480]  But the framing, it was just going on and on about how they need to be in control.
[06:16.720 --> 06:33.680]  And they then want to use this, I think, in a lot of ways as a display of that authority that to anyone else who might do something like this, maybe putting their personal safety in some risk to make a statement in a specific location on a day like today.
[06:33.980 --> 06:36.680]  They want to show that they can do anything.
[06:36.800 --> 06:40.580]  They can go up, they'll get anybody from anywhere, and they'll control this.
[06:40.780 --> 06:44.320]  And it becomes this framing of, oh, it's so brave of them.
[06:44.320 --> 06:46.140]  And, oh, they do so much for us.
[06:46.220 --> 06:47.920]  And, oh, we should just thank them, thank them.
[06:48.200 --> 06:49.200]  It's nauseating.
[06:49.360 --> 06:50.440]  Yeah, it really is.
[06:50.600 --> 06:52.400]  It becomes about the person.
[06:52.500 --> 06:58.660]  It's not about the thing they're actually protesting, which we saw with the NFL and many other protest scenarios like this.
[06:58.660 --> 07:00.300]  I can only imagine what coverage on Fox was like.
[07:00.440 --> 07:02.820]  But listening to CNN, it was really...
[07:02.820 --> 07:03.220]  Pathetic.
[07:03.280 --> 07:08.720]  It was awful because they're completely missing the message, which is what people are protesting in the first place.
[07:08.820 --> 07:09.020]  Yeah.
[07:09.360 --> 07:13.080]  And this kind of thing should be happening every day in all kinds of places.
[07:13.100 --> 07:14.580]  Yes, there should be disruption.
[07:14.760 --> 07:15.740]  There should be shutdowns.
[07:15.780 --> 07:19.320]  There should be inconveniences because this kind of thing is intolerable.
[07:19.500 --> 07:21.660]  And if we just accept it, it becomes normal.
[07:21.960 --> 07:22.180]  Voltaire.
[07:22.440 --> 07:24.840]  Yeah, CNN stands for Concertial News Network.
[07:24.840 --> 07:29.680]  You know, everybody's got their favorite thing for what that acronym stands for.
[07:29.820 --> 07:31.580]  But today, it stood for pathetic.
[07:31.800 --> 07:34.160]  I just love that we're actually doing this.
[07:34.300 --> 07:46.060]  We're arguing the appropriateness of somebody protesting for their political views on this day where we celebrate our great freedoms at the place, which is a huge symbol of our great freedoms and our welcoming toward immigrants.
[07:46.380 --> 07:46.580]  Yeah.
[07:46.760 --> 07:48.920]  I mean, that went right over their heads.
[07:48.920 --> 07:57.840]  I mean, totally lost on them, the sort of punditry and armchair critique of how best to protest and be civil.
[07:58.680 --> 08:00.840]  How civil is your disobedience?
[08:01.000 --> 08:17.060]  All of this kind of, I guess, just armed, yeah, like critiques and analysis that completely miss the symbolism and beauty of being at this particular site and making a statement like they have.
[08:17.260 --> 08:20.100]  Did you hear, though, that Trump is building another statue?
[08:21.400 --> 08:27.400]  As this statue welcomed immigrants to this country, he's building a statue to wave goodbye to them on the southern border.
[08:28.200 --> 08:29.100]  That's almost believable.
[08:29.180 --> 08:30.220]  I could sell that story.
[08:30.380 --> 08:31.800]  That's something that he would do.
[08:32.240 --> 08:35.580]  You know, just adios and don't come back.
[08:35.960 --> 08:37.900]  That's the statue we should build for this era.
[08:38.400 --> 08:41.680]  How do you distinguish the waving hello and goodbye in the statue?
[08:41.680 --> 08:42.360]  The middle finger.
[08:42.460 --> 08:44.800]  The middle finger is how you get that across, usually.
[08:45.720 --> 08:47.480]  Anyway, okay, so let's move on.
[08:47.560 --> 08:54.040]  There's other cheery things happening today that I think we should get into that's more linked to what we talk about every week.
[08:54.120 --> 08:57.100]  It's certainly not the only thing going on, but of note.
[08:57.280 --> 09:03.760]  No, there is a German police raid, get this, of TorLink Group's board members.
[09:03.820 --> 09:07.120]  I'm sure this will be talked about at the HUB conference in a couple of weeks.
[09:07.740 --> 09:09.360]  Oh, my God, it's in a couple of weeks.
[09:09.360 --> 09:09.720]  Wow.
[09:09.720 --> 09:11.020]  Well, that's pretty soon.
[09:11.140 --> 09:11.920]  Try not to think about that.
[09:12.140 --> 09:12.840]  Oh, boy.
[09:13.660 --> 09:15.160]  Okay, well, yeah, that's coming up.
[09:15.520 --> 09:21.680]  And Tor is going to be one of the most widely discussed topics around, I think.
[09:21.960 --> 09:34.220]  But anyway, in the early morning, this is actually back on June 20th, German security services raided the homes of several board members of Zweibyfront, which is a nonprofit group helping to support privacy and anonymity projects.
[09:36.380 --> 09:40.600]  Now, basically, people arrived home to find that their locks had been changed.
[09:40.800 --> 09:44.380]  I didn't know they changed your locks when they raided your home, but apparently they did that.
[09:44.380 --> 09:45.880]  That's like a service or something.
[09:46.120 --> 09:48.580]  Yeah, you collect the new keys from the police department.
[09:48.680 --> 09:49.860]  They give you the second set.
[09:49.980 --> 09:50.300]  Wow.
[09:50.300 --> 09:52.100]  They're set and you get...
[09:52.100 --> 09:53.380]  They keep a set, of course.
[09:53.400 --> 09:54.200]  That's awful friendly.
[09:54.500 --> 10:18.560]  So these were coordinated raids and they basically took place after some event that Left Wing blog was holding, and I'm told... I don't really understand what happened here, but I'm told that if you used Rise Up overseas or basically donated using European banks,
[10:18.560 --> 10:23.000]  you can count on your information being in the hands of the police.
[10:23.180 --> 10:23.720]  Does that sound right?
[10:23.900 --> 10:24.980]  It's not just Rise Up.
[10:25.100 --> 10:30.340]  It's also Tails, which is the security distro that Edward Snowden and I kind of think we're all to use.
[10:31.340 --> 10:32.040]  We use Tails?
[10:32.440 --> 10:33.540]  Yeah, Tails is awesome.
[10:33.540 --> 10:35.840]  Yeah, we have a lot of fun with Tails.
[10:36.140 --> 10:37.820]  It's a great operating system.
[10:38.400 --> 10:41.520]  So these are... I'm sorry, groups organizing?
[10:42.000 --> 10:42.600]  No, the...
[10:42.600 --> 10:44.040]  Or if you funded those groups?
[10:44.060 --> 10:44.600]  Yeah, if you funded it too.
[10:44.700 --> 10:51.260]  And also Tor servers, which is like a non-profit for funding more Tor servers.
[10:51.480 --> 10:59.720]  So this group coordinated some of that, and if you were contributing, their information may have had your information in it that is now being...
[10:59.720 --> 11:02.200]  If you donate to them, you don't have your financial data.
[11:02.220 --> 11:03.080]  You may be susceptible.
[11:03.080 --> 11:05.620]  Does anyone know what they were looking for?
[11:05.900 --> 11:15.840]  Well, yeah, there was a blog post on an Antifa website that called for like having counter-protests against a neo-Nazi rally.
[11:16.980 --> 11:17.800]  Wait, what?
[11:18.120 --> 11:22.020]  Somebody posted on a blog that there should be a counter-protest against neo-Nazis?
[11:22.020 --> 11:23.360]  And that's why they got raided?
[11:23.660 --> 11:26.020]  Yeah, well, they said like that they were calling...
[11:26.460 --> 11:29.440]  It was like allowing for property destruction with him.
[11:29.540 --> 11:30.720]  Oh my God, property destruction.
[11:30.720 --> 11:30.940]  Exactly.
[11:31.180 --> 11:31.340]  Wow.
[11:31.460 --> 11:32.120]  And it wasn't even...
[11:32.120 --> 11:34.200]  The group wasn't even associated with the...
[11:34.200 --> 11:35.280]  I forget how to pronounce it.
[11:36.020 --> 11:37.380]  The German group that was raided.
[11:37.400 --> 11:37.940]  That German group.
[11:37.940 --> 11:38.840]  Let's really just say that, yeah.
[11:38.920 --> 11:41.840]  A group can't just like make property destruction okay.
[11:42.140 --> 11:44.960]  I mean, they can maybe encourage people...
[11:44.960 --> 11:48.780]  I encourage the smashing of any mailbox that's associated with the neo-Nazi.
[11:48.920 --> 11:51.560]  I will go on record as saying I support that.
[11:51.680 --> 11:53.260]  And a pie in the face too, for that matter.
[11:53.400 --> 11:54.600]  That's astounding though.
[11:54.740 --> 11:55.840]  That is really interesting.
[11:56.040 --> 12:04.460]  So just by organizing and yes, okay, somebody said something maybe along the way, but it doesn't seem like they were like handing out guidelines and saying you must smash this.
[12:04.460 --> 12:07.520]  And it wasn't even this group that was the Antifa group.
[12:07.660 --> 12:08.300]  It was like a...
[12:08.300 --> 12:11.540]  So they provided infrastructure or something to the Antifa group.
[12:11.840 --> 12:13.920]  This group was about like information freedom.
[12:14.160 --> 12:15.500]  It's not about like...
[12:15.500 --> 12:19.000]  I mean, Antifa is somewhat related to that, but it's not their group.
[12:19.120 --> 12:20.640]  They probably communicate in other ways.
[12:20.660 --> 12:21.440]  I say Antifa.
[12:21.540 --> 12:22.560]  You say Antifa.
[12:22.640 --> 12:23.400]  So that makes you my enemy.
[12:24.100 --> 12:24.740]  I'm sorry.
[12:24.840 --> 12:25.280]  It just does.
[12:25.620 --> 12:26.840]  That's how the left works.
[12:26.880 --> 12:27.380]  They're distinct.
[12:27.600 --> 12:27.700]  Yeah.
[12:27.980 --> 12:28.840]  Well, the thing is...
[12:28.840 --> 12:28.980]  Okay.
[12:29.080 --> 12:35.000]  So why is it that these are the groups that are labeled the threat and not the neo-Nazis in the first place?
[12:35.000 --> 12:37.100]  They seem to just carry on with impunity.
[12:39.260 --> 12:40.260]  That's a good question.
[12:40.340 --> 12:41.120]  I'm asking you, Kyle.
[12:41.460 --> 12:42.320]  I want you to respond.
[12:42.380 --> 12:42.740]  How am I the expert?
[12:42.920 --> 12:43.260]  I don't know.
[12:43.360 --> 12:44.300]  Somehow you're responsible for this.
[12:44.300 --> 12:45.400]  Why are you looking at me like that?
[12:47.120 --> 12:47.740]  No, no, no.
[12:47.980 --> 12:49.220]  I don't know.
[12:50.520 --> 12:51.240]  I absolutely...
[12:51.740 --> 12:52.100]  I'm...
[12:52.100 --> 12:53.660]  Well, it's just telling, I think.
[12:54.000 --> 13:05.840]  In light of how politically things are moving in Europe, things are moving here, that the groups that are considered the bigger threat are the ones that are fighting against oppression and against racism.
[13:06.240 --> 13:09.500]  Remember that they are the victims, okay?
[13:09.700 --> 13:11.920]  Their jobs are being taken away by the...
[13:11.920 --> 13:12.000]  Who are they?
[13:12.360 --> 13:13.960]  The whites.
[13:14.500 --> 13:14.820]  Okay.
[13:15.820 --> 13:16.380]  Right.
[13:16.660 --> 13:17.840]  The whites are the victims.
[13:18.220 --> 13:18.760]  You know...
[13:18.760 --> 13:20.300]  And you have to understand that narrative.
[13:20.300 --> 13:21.300]  We talked about this.
[13:21.660 --> 13:22.900]  You know what I read today?
[13:22.900 --> 13:28.580]  I read today that Italy needs more migrants to support their pension program.
[13:28.580 --> 13:32.300]  In other words, if they don't have more people, the pension program goes bankrupt.
[13:32.300 --> 13:37.000]  So they actually need more migrants to come in and become part of the workforce to support that.
[13:37.420 --> 13:38.040]  Imagine that.
[13:38.260 --> 13:41.160]  They need more migrants, and yet they're turning them away.
[13:41.380 --> 13:43.640]  They're tied with Japan for lowest birth age.
[13:44.060 --> 13:44.480]  Yeah.
[13:44.820 --> 13:48.620]  And I can maybe see why with the kind of people that...
[13:48.620 --> 13:49.600]  But it's true.
[13:49.760 --> 13:58.160]  I mean, in seriousness, like the hegemonic, the sort of dominant class or ideology becomes accepted, becomes normal.
[13:58.160 --> 13:59.520]  They become affinity groups.
[13:59.700 --> 14:00.500]  They become...
[14:00.500 --> 14:14.080]  In our country, and I guess it's worth saying today, it's the shrouding it in patriotism and making it sort of normal that we can slip in these other policies and attitudes.
[14:14.420 --> 14:20.760]  But it comes under this context of whatever, service and, you know...
[14:20.760 --> 14:31.360]  Well, I don't think we should let them hijack patriotism and define that as their values, because the way they are acting is very unpatriotic, I think.
[14:31.740 --> 14:31.860]  Yeah.
[14:32.260 --> 14:32.680]  Go ahead.
[14:32.860 --> 14:35.900]  It's kind of a no-scoutsman fallacy type thing.
[14:36.160 --> 14:37.560]  Like, patriotism...
[14:37.560 --> 14:41.280]  Like, if you look at the vast majority of the past 300 years, America has been a...
[14:41.280 --> 14:45.420]  I can't use the word on there, but the majority of it has, like...
[14:45.420 --> 14:49.940]  Most of America has done awful stuff, and, like, we shouldn't...
[14:49.940 --> 14:58.120]  And America is just one country, so we should be, like, practicing an internationalist idea, a framework, as opposed to, like, celebrating America.
[14:58.400 --> 15:00.360]  I mean, yes, America has done good things, too, but...
[15:00.360 --> 15:00.800]  That's my point.
[15:00.920 --> 15:02.260]  We are America, you know?
[15:02.480 --> 15:02.680]  Yeah.
[15:02.680 --> 15:04.180]  Why give that to them?
[15:04.380 --> 15:13.500]  Just to bring it back to the statue, one of the comment, the newscasters was saying, like, this is our statue, and they're not making it available on 4th of July.
[15:13.660 --> 15:14.100]  How dare they?
[15:14.140 --> 15:16.600]  It's like, well, it's their statue.
[15:16.760 --> 15:17.580]  It's all of our...
[15:17.580 --> 15:27.140]  Collectively, the person being, quote, rescued or arrested, however you're looking at it, or the person standing there with their sign at the base of the statue, all of us, collectively.
[15:27.140 --> 15:47.360]  But yet, the news person is saying, well, because they've broken the law, or they're going to be arrested and taken to some New York precinct, you know, lovely, but, like, you know, it's somehow ours, the public who's not going to be arrested, when all of us should be as upset and would have,
[15:47.480 --> 15:53.580]  would be, I guess, have as much right as them to stand there and protest.
[15:53.580 --> 15:54.860]  We wouldn't want that.
[15:55.100 --> 16:00.940]  We wouldn't... just because we're not willing to doesn't make it, like, doesn't make them any less American.
[16:01.240 --> 16:07.980]  Yeah, and that statue stands for people who have been oppressed, who have been arrested, who have been downtrodden.
[16:08.300 --> 16:13.440]  A lot more than it stands for those people lining up and paying whatever it costs just to see it in person.
[16:13.560 --> 16:19.100]  But when you shroud it, when you put enough stars and stripes on it, you know, maybe it is fascist, but it becomes accepted.
[16:19.100 --> 16:20.060]  It's the background.
[16:20.060 --> 16:27.600]  It's the, again, hegemonic, like, the sort of dominant narrative, the dominant ideology, and that gets compounded and it's sneaky.
[16:28.100 --> 16:31.900]  Well, look carefully at the statue tonight and you'll see she's giving a thumbs up to these people.
[16:32.440 --> 16:36.700]  And I wish these people would maybe back that protester up a little bit more.
[16:37.120 --> 16:37.960]  Rise and resist.
[16:38.140 --> 16:46.880]  They did a great job today, but, yeah, they didn't know the person was going to climb the statue, but good for her for doing it, for taking that extra step and for being careful about it herself.
[16:47.080 --> 16:47.840]  Give her credit for that.
[16:48.360 --> 16:53.780]  And let's hope more people do things that get attention and outrage the status quo a little bit.
[16:53.980 --> 16:57.160]  Yeah, back to this German story, I have a guilty confession to make.
[16:57.680 --> 17:10.920]  My initial reaction was, like, being upset, but then I thought, like, I was kind of happy in a way because lots of our European listeners and fellow hackers are saying that they won't come to the States because they do stuff like this.
[17:11.000 --> 17:14.320]  And I feel kind of, like, redeemed, like, oh, your country is no better.
[17:15.180 --> 17:18.280]  Yeah, because people from oppressed countries love to travel to other oppressed countries.
[17:18.280 --> 17:19.340]  Yeah, I could see that.
[17:19.520 --> 17:20.420]  Well, welcome.
[17:21.180 --> 17:22.340]  We'll be right.
[17:22.420 --> 17:23.620]  You'll be very at home.
[17:23.800 --> 17:27.780]  You'll seem just like the fascism you're escaping.
[17:28.740 --> 17:32.200]  Speaking of things in Europe, though, this is kind of interesting.
[17:32.500 --> 17:34.580]  This is called the anti-meme law.
[17:34.800 --> 17:40.480]  And right away, that got me intrigued because anything that is anti-meme, I would be in support of.
[17:40.560 --> 17:41.920]  But I'm really not in support of this.
[17:42.480 --> 17:54.780]  EU lawmakers are basically about to vote on a controversial copyright law tomorrow that, if enforced, would change the internet and our consumption of news and information as we know it, at least if you're European.
[17:55.680 --> 18:07.520]  So basically, MEPs in the European Parliament will be voting on the copyright directive, which was drawn up to replace a 17-year-old law that came into effect as domestic internet use was still in its infancy.
[18:07.660 --> 18:10.840]  And this was first proposed in 2016.
[18:11.500 --> 18:25.040]  They want to update copyright rules to tackle piracy and introduce fair pay for artists and journalists when their work is used online and in the physical world, a goal which many argue would threaten freedom of expression and the public's access to information.
[18:25.240 --> 18:28.260]  There are two sections in particular that have sparked concern.
[18:28.680 --> 18:38.920]  The link tax, which would force news aggregators like Google and Facebook to buy a license to publish links to news organizations and extracts from their stories.
[18:39.760 --> 18:47.260]  Honestly, Google News has become completely useless because every single link I click on wants money to read the story.
[18:47.500 --> 18:58.180]  I think they should make an aggregator that is for those pay sites and other ones that are for the sites that want you to read the story without basically getting you to pay for it.
[18:58.420 --> 19:04.200]  And maybe, you know, if you really are happy with their reporting, you contribute in some other way.
[19:04.720 --> 19:09.100]  But right now, I think it's getting less and less useful per day.
[19:09.200 --> 19:10.580]  But that's just my opinion on that.
[19:11.000 --> 19:12.200]  There's also Article 13.
[19:12.440 --> 19:21.860]  Under this section, online platforms will be liable if its users upload or publish unlicensed content such as photos, videos, source code, or music on their website.
[19:22.340 --> 19:28.020]  Such actions will require a license fee to be paid or for the content to be pre-filtered or automatically censored.
[19:28.340 --> 19:28.460]  Wow.
[19:29.120 --> 19:41.680]  Major publishers and lawmakers say these reforms are necessary to ensure the survival of traditional news media, which have seen their advertising revenue slump as consumers digest news on aggregators and seek free alternatives.
[19:41.820 --> 19:44.320]  Again, the aggregator thing easily solved.
[19:44.360 --> 19:54.000]  If you have a pool where, you know, you want to access sources that charge money, you pay one thing because you can't pay for every single site you go to.
[19:54.180 --> 20:02.300]  You contribute into a fund that's distributed amongst these news sources, and they have a new source of revenue that makes up for what they're losing.
[20:03.060 --> 20:05.840]  I'm sure we can develop something that is fair to them.
[20:06.020 --> 20:21.020]  Anyway, after this draft law was approved on June 20th, German MEP Axel Voss said news publishers and artists, especially the smaller ones, are not getting paid due to the practices of powerful online content sharing platforms and news aggregators.
[20:21.140 --> 20:23.380]  This is wrong, and we aim to redress it.
[20:23.380 --> 20:29.540]  The principle of fair pay for work done should apply to everyone, everywhere, whether in the physical or online world.
[20:29.640 --> 20:31.140]  Well, you know, I work for a small publisher.
[20:31.320 --> 20:31.980]  I don't feel that.
[20:32.080 --> 20:32.860]  Don't feel that at all.
[20:32.960 --> 20:37.080]  I think if people support what you do, they will support you.
[20:37.220 --> 20:39.560]  They will support you in other ways.
[20:40.240 --> 20:43.100]  And the more your content gets out, the better for you.
[20:43.560 --> 20:43.700]  Yeah.
[20:43.820 --> 20:49.600]  And the way you leverage the distribution and the way you differentiate in the market, that makes a big deal.
[20:49.760 --> 20:55.080]  You're creating a better product that people will consume if it has extra value.
[20:55.240 --> 21:03.300]  If you took away all of the ads from those individual news sources and aggregated it, as you said, and described, people would pay for that.
[21:03.460 --> 21:10.780]  I would if you were not faced with any of the ads and the pop-ups and all of the things directing you to support them.
[21:11.420 --> 21:11.820]  Yeah.
[21:11.860 --> 21:15.100]  I want to pay for the New York Times, but I don't also want to pay for the Chicago Tribune.
[21:15.100 --> 21:19.620]  I want to be able to go from site to site and read lots of things.
[21:19.640 --> 21:28.680]  And I'd be willing to pay one fee for annual access to what they consider to be stories that are worthy of that.
[21:28.740 --> 21:33.460]  But I think there should also be free sources as well for people that don't opt to do that.
[21:33.840 --> 21:34.020]  Sure.
[21:34.120 --> 21:35.000]  I think it should be both.
[21:35.000 --> 21:37.500]  But I think there's a market there, definitely.
[21:37.800 --> 21:42.420]  And I think you would pay just like you would have a library card or a membership.
[21:42.600 --> 21:45.080]  You would be able to pay a flat rate.
[21:45.080 --> 21:48.180]  and have access to that stuff without any of the ads.
[21:48.260 --> 21:51.060]  I mean, somebody's yet to do it.
[21:51.080 --> 21:52.360]  Library cards are free, though.
[21:52.460 --> 21:53.340]  There's no fee for those.
[21:53.560 --> 21:55.980]  That's why I say like a membership card.
[21:56.260 --> 21:57.500]  But yeah, exactly.
[21:57.740 --> 22:01.020]  Libraries have been considered a good thing for writers and for publishers.
[22:01.320 --> 22:01.800]  Absolutely.
[22:02.180 --> 22:04.720]  But they need to be funded and supported as well.
[22:05.020 --> 22:13.560]  And also speaking as an artist who publishes work online, I really enjoy when people take things that I've made and spread them out elsewhere and build upon them.
[22:13.560 --> 22:18.880]  I publish everything I put online under creative commons licenses, which means you're allowed to do that.
[22:18.980 --> 22:20.520]  And all you have to do is say where you got it.
[22:20.620 --> 22:22.980]  And that brings people back to me and gets them interested in my work.
[22:23.040 --> 22:24.740]  And this whole thing works very well for me.
[22:24.880 --> 22:26.080]  You know, I've sold work on it.
[22:26.160 --> 22:27.340]  I've, you know, had dinners out on it.
[22:27.920 --> 22:30.560]  It's, it's, it's, it's the way I choose to do things.
[22:30.760 --> 22:37.580]  And, you know, I wonder if under this law, people would be prejudiced against using my work in the way that I'm telling them to be afraid to.
[22:37.580 --> 22:37.820]  Yeah.
[22:37.820 --> 22:38.180]  Yeah.
[22:38.280 --> 22:54.500]  I think there is a room for governments to be subsidizing journalism, but this in this form is basically giving a subsidy to these for profit, like advertising based companies and, and requiring even small like blogs and stuff to be able to pay these fees,
[22:54.560 --> 22:55.940]  which would be prohibitively large.
[22:56.300 --> 23:02.220]  And basically anytime you're using fair use, it's, it's like you have to pay for that, which is not what fair use is.
[23:02.220 --> 23:02.720]  Yeah.
[23:02.900 --> 23:08.740]  It would, it would make things incredibly intimidating and awkward for people just to, uh, uh, express themselves.
[23:09.020 --> 23:13.440]  That, that's a very good point because the whole fair use, or, um, if you're in other countries, I think they call it fair dealing.
[23:13.920 --> 23:23.500]  Um, that whole, that whole thing is very hard to, uh, square up with automatic systems like this, um, and things that you have to pay for because there are ways in which you can use stuff you don't have permission to.
[23:23.700 --> 23:25.240]  You already have the legal right to do that.
[23:25.420 --> 23:27.660]  Um, you know, under, under the rights of fair use.
[23:27.780 --> 23:43.060]  And it's not what, uh, half the people on, like I, I'm not, uh, uh, you know, I, I say it's fair use, therefore it is, but there is a very, uh, a very strong case for fair use and it's worth educating yourself on what it is and how it works and how you can use it.
[23:43.140 --> 23:44.080]  And you have the right to do that.
[23:44.260 --> 23:46.620]  Now there has been quite a bit of pushback to this.
[23:46.800 --> 23:47.780]  Here's one comment.
[23:47.960 --> 24:02.020]  Um, article 13 takes an unprecedented step towards the transformation of the internet from an open platform for sharing and innovation into a tool for the automated surveillance and control of its users by making platforms directly responsible for ensuring the legality of content.
[24:02.060 --> 24:07.060]  In the first instance, the business models and investments of platforms, large and small will be impacted.
[24:07.280 --> 24:12.740]  The damage that this may do to the free and open internet, as we know, it is hard to predict, but in our opinions could be substantial.
[24:12.960 --> 24:14.020]  Well, of course, that's just one opinion.
[24:14.140 --> 24:14.820]  What do these people know?
[24:14.940 --> 24:21.880]  That's just Tim Berners-Lee, the inventor of the worldwide web and Jimmy Wales, the founder of Wikipedia saying this, they're not exactly experts, are they?
[24:22.500 --> 24:22.860]  No.
[24:22.860 --> 24:23.600]  Oh, man.
[24:23.700 --> 24:26.200]  So let's leave it to the government and see where that goes.
[24:26.500 --> 24:27.520]  The vote is tomorrow.
[24:27.900 --> 24:30.300]  Still enough time to storm parliament over in Europe.
[24:30.880 --> 24:33.380]  Take a lead from the Statue of Liberty climber.
[24:33.480 --> 24:37.480]  Maybe you get something done or delay this or just get some more attention.
[24:37.800 --> 24:43.840]  Any time you're adding use licenses and pre-filtered, it just doesn't really sound like the internet anymore.
[24:44.160 --> 24:44.880]  No, it doesn't.
[24:45.000 --> 24:45.640]  It absolutely does not.
[24:46.020 --> 24:46.180]  Yeah.
[24:46.460 --> 24:48.120]  We need a new internet is what we need.
[24:48.600 --> 24:49.340]  That's what we need.
[24:49.500 --> 24:49.620]  Yes.
[24:49.620 --> 24:55.940]  To find out how to contact your member of the European Parliament, go to saveyourinternet.eu.
[24:57.080 --> 24:57.880]  Saveyourinternet.eu.
[24:58.020 --> 24:58.180]  Okay.
[24:58.220 --> 24:58.800]  That sounds good.
[24:58.960 --> 24:59.500]  That sounds good.
[24:59.880 --> 25:04.300]  Is there a saveinternet.us that we can go to?
[25:04.860 --> 25:06.100]  Because we could use that.
[25:06.760 --> 25:07.160]  All right.
[25:07.180 --> 25:09.200]  There's battleforthenet.com, which...
[25:09.200 --> 25:09.380]  Yeah.
[25:09.480 --> 25:09.820]  There's that.
[25:09.880 --> 25:10.220]  There's that.
[25:10.340 --> 25:11.520]  There's a lot of battles going on.
[25:11.720 --> 25:12.020]  All right.
[25:12.080 --> 25:13.220]  More stories.
[25:13.520 --> 25:25.280]  Just to give you a sense as to what might be ahead with the demise of net neutrality, let's look over at Kazakhstan, which is throttling the internet under certain circumstances.
[25:26.860 --> 25:29.080]  Basically, this is kind of interesting.
[25:29.520 --> 25:35.020]  Apparently, the internet is throttled whenever the president's rival is online.
[25:35.720 --> 25:37.180]  I'm not making this up.
[25:37.380 --> 25:38.140]  I don't get what that means.
[25:38.220 --> 25:39.040]  Like, what do you mean online?
[25:39.180 --> 25:46.080]  Like when he's trying to search for something or like when he's having like a rally of some sort and people are watching online?
[25:46.320 --> 25:59.040]  Well, the trouble appears to have started back in March when a court in the capital of Astana deemed the opposition group Democratic Choice of Kazakhstan in its... DVK and its Russian initials an extremist organization.
[25:59.220 --> 26:07.180]  Now, DVK was set up by self-exiled government foe Mukhtar Abiyazov and appears to have only a marginal following.
[26:07.940 --> 26:10.500]  They've used online resources to spread the word.
[26:11.120 --> 26:24.180]  Now, aping the internet-savvy strategy of Russian opposition figures like Alexei Navalny, Abiyazov has taken delivering political homilies through live video on Facebook, often in the evening.
[26:24.680 --> 26:32.060]  So, the Astana court's extremism ruling has, in effect, criminalized the sharing of any of the movements publicity materials.
[26:32.300 --> 26:40.120]  So, the choking of internet connections each evening is another prong of the anti-DVK front, the government freely admits.
[26:40.340 --> 26:41.280]  They actually admit this.
[26:41.860 --> 26:48.840]  In April, an IT system operator posted a plea to the information ministry asking why some websites were performing so dismally.
[26:49.060 --> 26:56.760]  Because of the constant blockages, support personnel and internet providers are going through a really rough time and are getting accused of providing bad service.
[26:57.160 --> 27:01.800]  One-third of evening traffic is incurred by YouTube, which is where DVK broadcasts are posted.
[27:01.900 --> 27:05.740]  So, we're seeing blocks as a result, and people are losing a major outlet for leisure.
[27:06.240 --> 27:17.820]  And in his response, the information minister said his office had filed requests with a range of websites, YouTube, Facebook, and a couple others, I can't pronounce, Twitter, Instagram, Telegram, to take down DVK materials.
[27:17.820 --> 27:22.260]  While Russian-based resources complied, others have proven less agreeable.
[27:22.560 --> 27:26.420]  And yeah, so that's that's what's happening over in Kazakhstan.
[27:26.420 --> 27:29.900]  They're actually blocking access to slow this down.
[27:30.080 --> 27:32.340]  And I think we could see things like this here.
[27:33.060 --> 27:33.580]  Absolutely.
[27:33.820 --> 27:42.960]  I mean, the current person in charge, I don't think is above using technological means to slow things down or hassle his political opponents.
[27:42.960 --> 27:55.660]  And the net neutrality climate or legal precedence that has been forced around here are setting that up to be used commercially, whether, you know, regardless of government.
[27:55.840 --> 28:04.380]  And we have had things just like this happen in America, in San Francisco and Oakland during a Black Lives Matter protest.
[28:04.780 --> 28:07.560]  They shut down the bar.
[28:08.700 --> 28:16.980]  The security told the telecom companies to turn off the LTE series that people can tweet and blog post about the protest.
[28:17.160 --> 28:18.480]  Or make phone calls, for that matter.
[28:19.000 --> 28:21.220]  I think that was very difficult to do at the same time.
[28:21.440 --> 28:26.200]  So yeah, these, you give people these tools, and they will use them in bad ways.
[28:26.280 --> 28:29.500]  Yeah, this is kind of along the lines and the theme of control.
[28:29.960 --> 28:48.780]  You do this, you make little spots where there's no communications, you isolate, you pen people up, you cage them up, sort of, whether it's, you know, digitally, you're separating them off, because they're, they're being outspoken, they're trying to get other people to understand the cause and understand what the imminent,
[28:49.020 --> 28:54.280]  you know, needs and message of whatever they're, they're expressing.
[28:54.660 --> 29:03.960]  And it's, it's just this, this pervasive sense that authority can come in and try to manipulate and try to engineer this stuff.
[29:03.960 --> 29:05.980]  But it's a force of nature.
[29:05.980 --> 29:07.420]  So I think it's foolhardy.
[29:07.540 --> 29:20.660]  I think that, that these things escalate and gain popularity, however they, they start, you know, however slow or nascent their, their momentum.
[29:20.980 --> 29:27.640]  Well, public safety is always going to be used as the excuse, the reason for doing things like this, and people will fall for it every time.
[29:27.640 --> 29:30.140]  And that is how such steps gain power.
[29:30.340 --> 29:35.000]  So beware, listen to, to what people say in opposition to these things.
[29:35.200 --> 29:46.760]  And as we've seen so often elsewhere, and also a lot in this country, like, if you, if you, if you are hassling people in such a manner, or if you're making something difficult, you do it for long enough, and you tell people it's for their own good long enough,
[29:47.000 --> 29:49.340]  people will get used to it, people will accept it as the new normal.
[29:49.760 --> 29:52.380]  And that's, that's what, that's when it gets really dangerous.
[29:52.380 --> 30:04.500]  And you really want to pay attention to framing, because if you're framed, your cause is framed as a nuisance, and you be, you know, that repetition then gets into other people's minds, other citizenry, they stop seeing you as an equal, they stop seeing your,
[30:04.500 --> 30:09.360]  your, uh, your action and your voice as, as credible, because you're just that nuisance again.
[30:09.820 --> 30:10.440]  You're anti-patriotic.
[30:10.560 --> 30:11.220]  Exactly, right.
[30:11.220 --> 30:14.480]  Standing against the country instead of, uh, standing up for it.
[30:15.000 --> 30:17.260]  And, um, well, whatever, we can go on for hours about that.
[30:17.320 --> 30:17.500]  What else you got?
[30:17.500 --> 30:26.180]  Uh, well, okay, in Uganda, they, uh, rolled out a five-cent daily tax for social media access, and it's not, uh, it's not sitting very well.
[30:26.260 --> 30:33.120]  The tax on users of sites such as Facebook, uh, was first proposed by, uh, a long-time leader, Yoweri Masaveni.
[30:33.520 --> 30:40.140]  Uh, he complained about online gossip in a March letter that urged the finance minister to raise money to cope with the consequences.
[30:40.860 --> 30:42.180]  Sounds a little familiar.
[30:42.460 --> 30:43.680]  Was it gossip about him?
[30:43.840 --> 30:44.240]  Of course.
[30:44.340 --> 30:51.580]  In addition to the usual data fees, social media users now must pay up front, um, a daily fee of about five cents.
[30:51.720 --> 30:56.920]  Doesn't sound like much, but, uh, the fact that there's a fee at all, uh, to access all social media websites.
[30:57.040 --> 31:10.300]  Now, service providers, including regional telecommunications giant MTN said in a joint statement Sunday that starting July 1st, the charge would be put on over-the-top services, including access to websites such as Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn.
[31:10.660 --> 31:11.100]  LinkedIn?
[31:11.300 --> 31:11.420]  Really?
[31:11.740 --> 31:16.540]  The tax will be deducted by service providers that will then pay to the government revenue service.
[31:16.540 --> 31:20.600]  Now, many Ugandans are bitter because the tax was brought in bad faith.
[31:20.800 --> 31:29.020]  The reasons for it were anti-people, anti-social, not development-oriented people are saying, a clear attempt to undermine the right to freedom of expression.
[31:29.200 --> 31:41.720]  By making people pay for using these platforms, this tax will render these avenues of communication inaccessible for low-income earners, robbing many people of their right to freedom of expression with a chilling effect on other human rights.
[31:41.780 --> 31:46.120]  And, uh, I, I certainly see that as another extension of this control you're talking about.
[31:46.180 --> 31:47.280]  Yeah, no, that is so well put.
[31:47.600 --> 31:50.080]  And, and don't think that can just happen in Uganda.
[31:50.520 --> 31:51.500]  Anybody can get that.
[31:51.580 --> 31:52.860]  And five cents may not sound like much.
[31:52.960 --> 31:56.360]  First of all, I don't know what the, what the translation is to how much that translates to over there.
[31:56.780 --> 31:58.520]  Uh, it doesn't matter if it's half a penny.
[31:58.620 --> 32:03.040]  The fact that they're, they're charging at all for anything like this is, is, is, is the big deal.
[32:03.180 --> 32:08.620]  And I love that somewhere now is, uh, is, is some sort of legal definition of what makes a website social media.
[32:08.860 --> 32:14.300]  I mean, if I go onto the, uh, manufacturer of my graphics card site, you know, there's a little user forum there, you know, is that social media?
[32:15.000 --> 32:19.860]  Um, it's, uh, it's really, it's really one of those things that I think they could point in any direction they want.
[32:20.020 --> 32:28.060]  We've seen, we've seen people in putting these positions work around these systems and end up, you know, in China, I'm sure, and other places where censorship is rampant.
[32:28.200 --> 32:34.380]  You, you find that people use whatever platforms are, you know, sanctioned and allowed, and then they, they subvert them.
[32:34.480 --> 32:38.540]  They use them in the ways that they need to, and they use code and other ways to get around it.
[32:38.720 --> 32:54.820]  So, yeah, again, it sounds like scared, powerful men, uh, trying half-heartedly to get into tech, you know, with their little bureaucracy, when it's really just sort of their own, um, insecurities, uh, manifesting and, and then, uh, you know, becoming control.
[32:55.120 --> 32:58.760]  It's control and, uh, it's, it's something that net neutrality protects against.
[32:58.880 --> 33:03.480]  So, uh, this is, this is what you see happening when, when that neutrality goes away.
[33:04.160 --> 33:04.620]  Um, okay.
[33:04.740 --> 33:06.660]  Here's, here's, uh, a news item.
[33:06.780 --> 33:14.340]  Google has confirmed that private emails sent and received by Gmail users can sometimes be read by third-party app developers, not just machines.
[33:15.320 --> 33:15.760]  Surprised?
[33:16.060 --> 33:16.380]  Anyone?
[33:17.700 --> 33:18.140]  Yes?
[33:18.300 --> 33:26.180]  No, this, uh, I'm not surprised, but this is kind of like a non-story, um, because it's, uh, people have been really angry at Gmail for doing this.
[33:26.360 --> 33:28.260]  Well, yeah, I mean, we knew this was the case.
[33:28.560 --> 33:38.060]  Yeah, it's, but it's, it make it seem like it's the same thing as Facebook where Facebook made it too easy to let third-party developers get access to your stuff without informing users.
[33:38.220 --> 33:38.900]  It's different.
[33:39.020 --> 33:41.580]  Facebook is, you're posting something for people to see.
[33:41.780 --> 33:43.520]  Email is between one person and another person.
[33:43.540 --> 33:46.460]  So Facebook also has private messages and stuff like that, which were leaked.
[33:46.780 --> 33:47.780]  But this is only different.
[33:47.880 --> 33:57.640]  This is where if you have like a third-party like a web app service like TripIt or, um, these like Amazon package tracking services that they automatically scan all your emails.
[33:57.980 --> 34:13.240]  And I think the people to blame here is not, uh, Google for allowing this because like any email provider that had provides an IMAP or, uh, uh, or POP3 access is like, that'd be like saying like, oh, Thunderbird has access to all your emails.
[34:13.380 --> 34:20.000]  But here, the people to blame are the journalists that promoted these like services like TripIt that said like, oh, it's a great convenient service.
[34:20.160 --> 34:20.920]  You should use it too.
[34:21.500 --> 34:27.000]  But isn't Google constantly saying how they encrypt things to protect users from point to point?
[34:27.260 --> 34:28.860]  So that this kind of thing doesn't happen.
[34:28.940 --> 34:29.020]  Yeah.
[34:29.140 --> 34:31.560]  From point to point, but the ends are always decrypted.
[34:31.680 --> 34:36.300]  You have to like that like if you have Thunderbird, you, your data on your device.
[34:36.580 --> 34:36.940]  Decrypted.
[34:37.100 --> 34:37.820]  There's no way to...
[34:37.820 --> 34:40.360]  if you wanna be able to read it, then Yeah.
[34:40.360 --> 34:41.460]  But you think of...
[34:41.460 --> 34:45.280]  you think of the app developers as being between the two points, not at the end of one of the points.
[34:45.360 --> 34:45.500]  No.
[34:45.620 --> 34:50.300]  The point at the, the functional, or quote unquote functionality like their app is that they automatically scan your email.
[34:50.480 --> 34:54.500]  Then, we'll track, like your flights or your, We package it for you.
[34:54.740 --> 34:55.860]  Yeah, so convenience.
[34:56.180 --> 35:02.220]  It seems like a really lazy way to integrate a service with communications.
[35:02.820 --> 35:05.500]  Oh, yeah, we'll just scan everything to make our app work.
[35:05.920 --> 35:13.500]  And I think it is kind of a vulnerability because you're creating a channel for developers to use...
[35:13.500 --> 35:19.380]  I don't know, to gain access to something that people would trust Gmail has access to.
[35:19.460 --> 35:21.640]  I mean, I guess Thunderbird is a software project.
[35:21.640 --> 35:24.140]  I would feel, I guess, more comfortable.
[35:24.400 --> 35:32.260]  I don't know how comfortable I feel, but depending on what they're accessing, I trust them as a client and as something that many people have worked on.
[35:32.360 --> 35:44.780]  But if two or three people just decide they're going to use this third-party app thing or a state actor does this, what is Google doing to vet them in that process?
[35:44.900 --> 35:49.120]  And what exact information would a third-party have is definitely...
[35:49.120 --> 35:50.060]  It's very odd.
[35:50.060 --> 35:51.840]  I didn't know as much about this.
[35:52.060 --> 35:57.120]  What's important here is the headline, Gmail messages read by human third parties.
[35:57.480 --> 36:01.760]  Now, okay, we may say we knew about this, that this is nothing new, that it's something we agreed to.
[36:02.020 --> 36:03.340]  A lot of people don't know this.
[36:03.460 --> 36:09.000]  And having a headline out there that says Gmail messages are being read by human third parties, I think that's what's important here.
[36:09.080 --> 36:09.740]  That needs to get out.
[36:09.840 --> 36:17.680]  People need to realize, if they haven't already, that when they are using services like this, they do not have the privacy they may think they have.
[36:17.900 --> 36:20.520]  But the problem is not... the headline is wrong.
[36:20.680 --> 36:24.900]  It's not... we shouldn't be angry that Gmail has access to your emails because, of course, they do.
[36:25.260 --> 36:25.980]  It's that...
[36:25.980 --> 36:26.940]  No, why shouldn't we be?
[36:27.040 --> 36:27.900]  We should know this.
[36:28.020 --> 36:28.900]  They're Gmail messages.
[36:29.100 --> 36:30.660]  There's nothing inaccurate about that headline.
[36:30.660 --> 36:35.480]  No, the... like, obviously, Gmail has access to your Gmail emails.
[36:35.940 --> 36:37.300]  It's not obvious to everybody.
[36:37.500 --> 36:39.720]  A lot of people seem to think that it's private, and it's not.
[36:39.820 --> 36:46.620]  But the story here is about TripIt and these package tracking websites having access to your Gmail emails, not Google having access.
[36:47.120 --> 36:48.080]  It says it right there.
[36:48.180 --> 36:50.160]  Gmail messages read by human third parties.
[36:50.320 --> 36:50.700]  Third parties.
[36:50.820 --> 36:51.100]  I get it.
[36:51.100 --> 36:51.740]  It's not Gmail.
[36:51.860 --> 36:52.740]  Read past the headline.
[36:53.700 --> 36:54.460]  Read past...
[36:54.460 --> 36:55.320]  It was a whole story here.
[36:55.460 --> 36:55.740]  Exactly.
[36:56.060 --> 36:56.740]  Yeah, I know.
[36:56.880 --> 36:58.960]  But the headline sums it up.
[36:58.960 --> 37:03.220]  The quote-unquote new information is that the third-party apps have access to your...
[37:03.220 --> 37:04.420]  That's what it says.
[37:04.540 --> 37:06.440]  I don't know what's hard to understand here.
[37:06.720 --> 37:09.620]  Human third parties, the apps, yes, absolutely.
[37:09.960 --> 37:11.180]  But they're Gmail messages.
[37:11.380 --> 37:16.380]  They're messages that you think maybe only Gmail or Google can read, and the person you're sending it to.
[37:16.540 --> 37:17.380]  But that's not true.
[37:17.680 --> 37:19.700]  It can be read by others as well.
[37:19.820 --> 37:21.200]  I'm not surprised by this at all.
[37:21.500 --> 37:24.760]  But I think a lot of people might be, and it's good to wake them up.
[37:25.240 --> 37:35.480]  I think the real story here is that this is a symptom of a more general trend that we see, where people, you know, they find something that looks convenient to use, and they're like, okay, they'll just click past whatever terms of service they are.
[37:35.600 --> 37:38.800]  But people are not cognizant of what they're signing up for with these.
[37:39.300 --> 37:46.860]  If this were in plain English, put in front of them as like, this thing is going to read your email, maybe people would still use it, but they do it with more of an understanding.
[37:47.000 --> 37:54.140]  I think the fact that people are reading the story and realizing that they're vulnerable and then getting upset is proof that they didn't know what they were in for.
[37:54.280 --> 37:54.800]  Exactly, yes.
[37:54.800 --> 38:12.300]  Yeah, like with what Voltaire said, it sounds like those services are being used with people's email accounts, but their consent is at some point given, you know, as they're adding that on to, or configuring it to work with their email account, right?
[38:12.360 --> 38:12.680]  Exactly.
[38:12.860 --> 38:15.280]  If you never signed up for these services.
[38:15.440 --> 38:18.080]  But I think the caveat here is that clarity of that.
[38:18.080 --> 38:32.960]  Like, you will be allowing third-party humans, as E has said, to sift through your emails, whether algorithmically or not, or whether it's supervised or both, or some hybridization, but they will have access.
[38:32.960 --> 38:34.520]  And it's not very clear.
[38:34.520 --> 38:40.300]  People might still think, oh, this is just my Gmail, and it's, of course, only on Gmail.
[38:40.300 --> 38:58.120]  It's living only on Gmail's platforms, but not realizing one or two or three other things that they've configured to work with Gmail may have systems or people either looking at or storing information from giving that access in an unsecure or non-Gmail way.
[38:58.340 --> 39:00.760]  And think of who could be running these apps as well.
[39:00.880 --> 39:02.340]  It's not just people in Silicon Valley.
[39:02.540 --> 39:12.840]  It could be government people running apps that you somehow are coerced into putting on your computer or your phone, and now all of a sudden, messages you think might not have been read are being read by the government.
[39:12.960 --> 39:14.220]  It's entirely possible.
[39:14.680 --> 39:16.840]  So people just need to know about these things.
[39:16.980 --> 39:19.520]  And I would not underestimate the storage aspect.
[39:19.760 --> 39:32.700]  I mean, data at rest in places that, you know, it's collected from some one place, place X, and then ends up sitting in place Y that goes defunct or, you know, misconfigures something, and then all of a sudden it's out there.
[39:34.220 --> 39:35.820]  Speaking of Facebook, we brought that up.
[39:35.820 --> 39:37.380]  They're working...
[39:37.380 --> 39:45.340]  They're always working on something, but they're working on software, which basically lets it secretly order users' smartphones.
[39:46.160 --> 39:48.460]  This sentence is just starting out so badly.
[39:48.660 --> 39:57.820]  It lets it secretly order users' smartphones to start recording audio whenever they hear inaudible messages hidden in television advertisements.
[39:58.530 --> 40:03.880]  If nothing convinces you that Facebook is evil, this should right here.
[40:03.880 --> 40:13.700]  The social network has always denied rumors that it listens into people's private conversations and analyzes what they talk about so it can show advertising that interests them.
[40:13.800 --> 40:22.840]  But in a patent application published on June 14th, their research division revealed a system which lets it quietly tell people's mobile phones to capture ambient audio.
[40:23.120 --> 40:26.740]  It allows Facebook to conceal a non-human hearable digital sound.
[40:26.820 --> 40:27.300]  This is a quote.
[40:27.520 --> 40:31.800]  Non-human hearable digital sound in the audio of a TV ad or other content.
[40:31.800 --> 40:40.880]  And although people won't be able to hear this sound, it contains a machine-recognizable set of Morse code-style sounds, which let it tap out a message to your smartphone and order it to begin recording.
[40:41.160 --> 40:48.020]  Now, that secret sound could be a very high-pitched voice Facebook wrote, pitched just above the limit of human hearing.
[40:48.020 --> 41:02.420]  When it hears that signal, the phone will start capturing ambient audio, which Facebook describes as the distinct and subtle sounds of a particular location created by the environment of the location, such as machinery noise, the sound of distant human movement and speech,
[41:02.920 --> 41:07.240]  creaks from thermal contraction, air conditioning, and plumbing noises in a household.
[41:09.280 --> 41:15.300]  That is something that really is... it's kind of mind-boggling.
[41:15.520 --> 41:17.640]  Are we surprised by that, Voltaire?
[41:17.640 --> 41:17.880]  Yeah.
[41:18.040 --> 41:31.920]  In a perverse way, this is actually kind of a good thing that Facebook filed for this patent, because in Silicon Valley and technology industry, the majority of patents are filed defensively, because there's so many patent drills out there that if they ever down the road want to implement this,
[41:32.000 --> 41:34.800]  then they need to have it backed up.
[41:35.340 --> 41:38.400]  So basically, they only implement like 10% of the things they patent.
[41:38.600 --> 41:40.240]  And a patent is not an implementation.
[41:40.260 --> 41:43.020]  It's an idea for something.
[41:43.280 --> 41:48.400]  So this will prevent other companies... I mean, if anything, this will prevent other companies from using it.
[41:48.580 --> 41:51.460]  So it's basically like a defensive move.
[41:51.660 --> 42:02.840]  Well, the thought behind it, basically, is that, at least for now, the thought behind it is that it allows advertisers to know whether somebody sat through their commercial or walked away into another room.
[42:03.540 --> 42:11.120]  So by having the ambient noise, you can hear somebody is far away from the TV set and isn't listening to your advertisement.
[42:11.360 --> 42:12.260]  That's what it is now.
[42:12.400 --> 42:13.360]  But of course, this technology...
[42:13.360 --> 42:13.920]  No, it's not what it is now.
[42:14.040 --> 42:14.440]  It's a patent.
[42:14.500 --> 42:16.000]  Well, that's what the patent is saying it is now.
[42:16.120 --> 42:20.080]  But it could be something a lot more insidious in the future as well.
[42:20.340 --> 42:21.840]  The doors are being opened for this.
[42:21.980 --> 42:24.160]  And we've seen that in real life.
[42:24.340 --> 42:32.400]  Last month, there was a story going around about an app in Spain called La Liga, which was the official app of the soccer league there.
[42:32.400 --> 42:39.600]  And it was, you know, the soccer fans would, or football, as they would call it, would get this app and they could watch games and stuff.
[42:39.720 --> 42:51.620]  But it was also using the microphones in everyone's cell phone who had this app to listen in on the surroundings and see if they were, you know, combined with their GPS location to see if like bars were playing the games unlicensed.
[42:51.900 --> 42:56.640]  And basically turning everyone's phone into a little snitch for the benefit of this company.
[42:56.640 --> 42:59.180]  And again, that's an example of such greed.
[42:59.420 --> 43:08.660]  I mean, you should be happy people are watching your damn game and make people pay so that they can broadcast the game that advertises what you're doing in the first place.
[43:08.680 --> 43:10.680]  It's like playing music in a bar.
[43:10.760 --> 43:17.760]  Why should somebody have to pay other than somebody in a jukebox to broadcast a commercial product, which is what a song is?
[43:18.060 --> 43:20.880]  You know, it should be something that they're paying you for, if anything.
[43:21.480 --> 43:23.680]  Also, I wonder if that would count as prior art for this patent.
[43:23.680 --> 43:24.720]  I don't know.
[43:24.900 --> 43:28.980]  But here's something else, a totally different platform here.
[43:29.140 --> 43:30.600]  And it's from Tech Dirt.
[43:30.740 --> 43:32.220]  And I love the way they open it.
[43:32.980 --> 43:36.140]  From the whistleblowers of the world, rejoice, but still be careful, department.
[43:36.760 --> 43:49.380]  Yes, as Tech Dirt has reported previously, in the case of reality winner, most modern color laser printers place tiny yellow tracking dots on every page printed, what Wikipedia calls printer steganography.
[43:49.940 --> 43:55.000]  And I believe that is how she was basically caught when the Intercept printed something.
[43:55.360 --> 43:57.700]  The Intercept didn't retype what they had received.
[43:57.880 --> 43:57.980]  Yeah.
[43:58.060 --> 43:59.560]  And they went straight to the government with this.
[43:59.720 --> 44:02.300]  And the nature was caught very quickly because of that.
[44:02.580 --> 44:08.100]  Now, basically, what's happening here is that the EFF has started warning about this sneaky form of surveillance.
[44:08.180 --> 44:09.960]  Actually, they've been doing that since 2005.
[44:10.440 --> 44:15.000]  They published a list of printers, whether it was known that they use tracking dots.
[44:15.420 --> 44:27.220]  And in 2017, the EFF stopped updating the list and wrote, it appears likely that all recent commercial color laser printers print some kind of forensic tracking code, not necessarily using yellow dots.
[44:27.380 --> 44:32.780]  This is true whether or not those codes are visible to the eye and whether or not the printer models are listed here.
[44:32.920 --> 44:36.820]  This also includes the printers that are listed here as not producing yellow dots.
[44:36.940 --> 44:43.660]  Now, despite the EFF's early work in exposing the practice, there has been limited information available about the various tracking systems.
[44:43.960 --> 44:51.980]  Two German researchers at the Technical University in Dresden have now greatly extended our knowledge about the yellow dot code.
[44:52.180 --> 44:55.060]  They have a published paper on this.
[44:55.220 --> 45:01.300]  They looked at 1,286 printed pages from 141 printers produced by 18 different manufacturers.
[45:01.300 --> 45:05.960]  They discovered four different encoding systems, including one that was hitherto unknown.
[45:06.220 --> 45:10.880]  The yellow dots form grids with 48, 64, 69, or 98 points.
[45:11.060 --> 45:16.560]  Using the grid to encode binary data, the hidden information was repeated multiple times across the printed page.
[45:16.660 --> 45:25.360]  And in all cases, the researchers were able to extract the manufacturer's name, the model serial number, and for some printers, the date and time of printing too.
[45:25.620 --> 45:38.280]  Now, while it's obviously good to have all this new information about tracking dots, what's even more important is a software tool that the researchers have written and made freely available can be used to obfuscate tracking information that a printer places in one of the four grid patterns,
[45:38.660 --> 45:43.580]  thus ensuring that the hard copy documents cannot easily be used to trace who printed them.
[45:44.080 --> 45:52.620]  Printer manufacturers will doubtless come up with new ways of tracking documents and may already be using some we don't know about, but this latest work at least makes it harder with existing models.
[45:52.780 --> 45:56.680]  And I think that's the most we can ever ask for, is just making it a little bit harder.
[45:56.780 --> 45:59.120]  And I think that's the good thing about this story.
[45:59.120 --> 45:59.740]  Yeah.
[45:59.880 --> 46:06.140]  And the great thing that these, um, these academic data researchers is that they provided a solution.
[46:06.320 --> 46:08.400]  They didn't just tell people that everything is awful.
[46:08.500 --> 46:12.140]  They, and uh, the software they release is open source and it's on GitHub.
[46:12.420 --> 46:16.320]  It's the last contribution had been made, uh, less than, less than 24 hours ago.
[46:16.480 --> 46:17.800]  So it's under active development.
[46:17.800 --> 46:18.400]  Yeah.
[46:18.640 --> 46:19.940]  And, and that's, that's exactly it.
[46:19.980 --> 46:27.900]  That's what you need to do is, is, is tell how dire the situation is, but give us hope, give us some, something that we can build upon.
[46:28.400 --> 46:31.920]  And, um, I think that's, uh, that's inspirational here.
[46:32.160 --> 46:32.480]  Okay.
[46:32.540 --> 46:36.180]  So keeping on the positive note, because, uh, it's always good to be there for a little while.
[46:36.340 --> 46:47.140]  Anyway, apparently, um, here in New York city, there are pranksters roaming around, not just climbing the Statue of Liberty, not just, uh, unfurling banners, but, um, targeting link NYC.
[46:47.140 --> 46:56.640]  Uh, they're basically making link NYC internet booths, blare out ice cream music, which fools people into thinking there's an ice cream truck nearby.
[46:57.400 --> 46:59.980]  Someone hacked the internet kiosk in front of my apartment.
[47:00.140 --> 47:07.080]  It's been playing the ice cream truck song for hours at Chelsea Hassler, vice president and editorial director at communications agency Xeno group.
[47:07.500 --> 47:11.520]  Um, and, um, apparently, uh, this has been happening quite a bit.
[47:11.680 --> 47:19.660]  Now, link NYC has, um, has, has told motherboard who reports this story in an email that, people are using a booth phone app to call a number.
[47:19.660 --> 47:20.300]  We've done this.
[47:20.500 --> 47:24.940]  We've called, uh, radio stations, uh, listening lines and played it loudly in the street.
[47:25.500 --> 47:25.920]  That's right.
[47:26.100 --> 47:31.060]  Uh, I think we've, um, even listened to the latency, uh, with feedback.
[47:31.520 --> 47:31.860]  Yes.
[47:32.000 --> 47:34.020]  Well, we've called our own phones and calling your own phone.
[47:34.140 --> 47:36.540]  Try that call yourself on and hold it up to the speaker.
[47:36.660 --> 47:40.180]  You'll create, you'll create an amazing sound that everybody in the neighborhood will hear.
[47:40.320 --> 47:40.740]  It's great.
[47:40.880 --> 47:41.020]  Yeah.
[47:41.140 --> 47:45.780]  That's the first thing I did shout through it when it reaches a crescendo, just starts shouting and screaming.
[47:45.920 --> 47:46.020]  It's great.
[47:46.020 --> 47:46.160]  Yes.
[47:46.280 --> 47:48.360]  Because there's a delay in the, in the cell signal.
[47:48.620 --> 47:50.900]  You'll hear your own voice come back and it'll just get all distorted.
[47:51.020 --> 47:51.900]  It's, it's a lot of fun.
[47:52.420 --> 47:52.740]  Uh, anyway.
[47:53.080 --> 48:02.580]  Uh, so basically, um, what, um, what people are doing is using the booth phone app to call a number where the person on the other end presumably plays the ice cream van music of choice with it.
[48:02.600 --> 48:04.060]  You know, there might not be a person on the other end.
[48:04.120 --> 48:04.940]  It could be a machine doing that.
[48:04.940 --> 48:05.120]  Yeah.
[48:05.140 --> 48:18.480]  Somebody just set up a number and you could play the audio on a loop or whatever, you know, a whole, um, AVR video system or a voice system where you can, uh, select from a variety of songs.
[48:18.740 --> 48:22.260]  And then apparently you can press the home button on the booth to hide the call in progress.
[48:22.400 --> 48:22.960]  I didn't know that.
[48:23.120 --> 48:23.580]  Thank you for that.
[48:23.740 --> 48:23.840]  Okay.
[48:23.960 --> 48:24.760]  Now multitasking.
[48:24.900 --> 48:25.020]  Yeah.
[48:25.160 --> 48:25.380]  Yeah.
[48:25.380 --> 48:29.220]  So link NYC has installed over a thousand of these damn things all across New York city.
[48:29.560 --> 48:34.700]  Uh, they offer free wifi and other communication services and the speed on these things is simply unbelievable.
[48:34.960 --> 48:35.280]  Oh yeah.
[48:35.480 --> 48:43.740]  Um, we've done some speed tests just standing at a link NYC kiosk and I think we got like 160 megabit, um, or 130.
[48:43.760 --> 48:45.640]  It was incredibly fast.
[48:46.140 --> 48:47.880]  Um, so much bandwidth.
[48:48.680 --> 48:55.300]  Uh, anyway, uh, critics have pointed to these devices, uh, potential for snooping because they include, uh, cameras, Bluetooth beacons, all sorts.
[48:55.380 --> 48:56.060]  Things like that.
[48:56.660 --> 49:01.940]  Uh, link NYC also has pointed out they have deployed a feature that disables a call after 10 minutes.
[49:02.200 --> 49:05.020]  If callers don't confirm they are present and using the booth.
[49:05.180 --> 49:05.780]  How do you do that?
[49:05.860 --> 49:07.160]  I guess you have to hit something on the screen.
[49:07.520 --> 49:16.060]  So if the, if the booths have been blasting out the music for hours as reported, maybe someone is walking up and down New York city streets, making sure the devices don't hang up.
[49:16.180 --> 49:17.620]  Someone has a lot of time on their hands.
[49:17.840 --> 49:20.400]  Uh, or maybe there's another way of automatically doing that.
[49:20.520 --> 49:21.640]  But, uh, yeah.
[49:21.900 --> 49:24.080]  Or, you know, maybe there really is an ice cream truck in the neighborhood.
[49:24.220 --> 49:24.740]  Do you ever think of that?
[49:25.700 --> 49:25.980]  Yeah.
[49:26.120 --> 49:31.800]  I mean, when, when I used to live in Washington Heights, there was one that would park on the corner right outside my window and stay there for hours and keep the music going.
[49:31.980 --> 49:35.740]  So no matter how many rocks I threw at it, but, uh, you know, that, that was annoying enough.
[49:35.840 --> 49:38.200]  But if there wasn't even ice cream involved, I think I'd be more upset.
[49:38.520 --> 49:41.640]  Hey, uh, we have a phone number, uh, and, uh, you can call us.
[49:41.780 --> 49:47.280]  We won't let you speak for hours and hours, uh, but, uh, certainly, uh, we'll let you say something, uh, over the air.
[49:47.580 --> 49:49.660]  Three, four, seven, three, three, five, zero, eight, one, eight.
[49:49.800 --> 49:54.180]  In the time we have left, uh, a couple of the stories though, and this, you know, we were talking happy stories.
[50:08.200 --> 50:24.000]  Back in April, 2017, Polish environmental group, Echologixna placed a GPS tracker on the back of Kajtek, a white stork, to collect data about the bird's winter migration route, as well as its feeding habits.
[50:24.000 --> 50:34.740]  Now, in the year that followed, Kajtek traveled some 6,000 kilometers, but don't blame Kajtek for the high cost of the, of the phone bill here, because I don't think Kajtek was making any calls.
[50:34.980 --> 50:41.580]  Uh, basically, um, uh, the last recording was April 26th in the Blue Nile Valley in eastern Sudan.
[50:42.120 --> 50:58.180]  And that apparently is where the, um, uh, the, um, card was removed from the tracker somehow and put inside a phone and used for 20 hours of communication, which, uh, got a bill of 2,278 euro.
[50:58.820 --> 51:01.780]  Um, so, um, yeah, that's, that's what happened.
[51:01.920 --> 51:05.980]  Now, uh, the white stork is, is, um, basically 40% of them live in, in Poland.
[51:06.160 --> 51:09.040]  So that's why there was an interest there, but I guess they weren't counting on this happening.
[51:09.320 --> 51:10.740]  Yeah, that's, it's a, it's a shame.
[51:10.840 --> 51:13.840]  I mean, there should be some sort of, uh, system in place for if you lose your phone.
[51:13.920 --> 51:16.900]  And I think a stork running away with it and not calling you back, uh, counts as that.
[51:17.200 --> 51:27.080]  But, um, I've, I've known a lot of people who have done the, uh, this experiment, which is kind of popular, where you send up a weather balloon with, uh, you know, a bunch of stuff attached to it to get, like, pictures from space, things like that.
[51:27.200 --> 51:29.400]  And then it drops down somewhere and you need to get it back.
[51:29.520 --> 51:35.480]  So a common thing to do is to put a phone on it and it can call home with, uh, like GPS directions or something like that.
[51:35.660 --> 51:41.200]  But I think, I think the, uh, done thing is to use some sort of prepaid or burner phone that, uh, you're not going to get, you're not going to keep running.
[51:41.420 --> 51:43.000]  Yeah, don't put your own phone on a weather balloon.
[51:43.520 --> 51:45.140]  It might land in the Atlantic Ocean.
[51:45.260 --> 51:45.740]  What do you do then?
[51:46.500 --> 51:46.980]  Um, swim.
[51:47.460 --> 51:52.820]  Yeah, prepaid, um, sims, I think are the best for, um, when you're doing kind of telemetry with science like that.
[51:52.960 --> 52:07.180]  And there is actually a, I, I don't know what, if it's actually, uh, it exists yet, but there, uh, seems to be a market for sort of IOT, uh, internet of things, communications and, and, uh, data plans, uh, especially for science like that.
[52:07.300 --> 52:09.620]  I hope these weather balloons come down lightly.
[52:09.620 --> 52:14.900]  I don't want to be clocked in the head with a cell phone, you know, um, at least not when I can't see being thrown at me.
[52:15.480 --> 52:20.600]  Um, you guys see the, um, the New Yorker article about, uh, the pirate radio scene here in Brooklyn.
[52:21.160 --> 52:25.160]  Um, David Gurin, who is giving a talk at Hope about that very topic.
[52:25.540 --> 52:33.820]  There's a whole big piece, mapping Brooklyn's diverse pirate radio scene, uh, talking about, uh, orthodox, um, uh, pirate radio stations, Haitian pirate radio stations.
[52:33.960 --> 52:34.960]  It's, it's really fascinating.
[52:35.200 --> 52:39.380]  Uh, and if you go to hope.net and check the speaker schedule, the whole schedule is up now.
[52:39.620 --> 52:43.740]  You will see when that talk and when about a hundred others are being given at the conference.
[52:43.900 --> 52:45.820]  Oh, and by the way, uh, ticket sales end on Friday.
[52:45.820 --> 52:51.460]  So if you want, uh, to guarantee entrance into the conference, we can't guarantee, uh, tickets will be available at the door.
[52:51.660 --> 52:55.860]  Uh, go to hope.net, follow the links and, uh, do that by, by Friday.
[52:56.040 --> 52:57.920]  We have a question actually from a listener.
[52:58.120 --> 52:59.120]  Uh, do you're off the hook?
[52:59.280 --> 53:01.380]  Two questions about, uh, Circle of Hope conference.
[53:01.920 --> 53:08.020]  Uh, how much money will a ticket to the conference cost if I buy it in person on Friday, July 20th, as opposed to buying it in advance online?
[53:08.020 --> 53:10.020]  Well, we can't mention prices on the air.
[53:10.360 --> 53:15.260]  And even if we knew the price, we would not be able to mention this one because, well, we don't know the price for one thing.
[53:15.760 --> 53:22.920]  Uh, what we can say is we're not 100% sure there will be tickets available because that depends on how many are sold online.
[53:23.040 --> 53:23.900]  We don't want overcrowding.
[53:24.100 --> 53:25.740]  Uh, so that's pretty important.
[53:25.740 --> 53:34.680]  If you, if you know you're going to go, then definitely pre-register and you'll get your ticket via email and, um, and, and you'll be safe and secure that way.
[53:38.020 --> 53:43.340]  Conference on the July 4th broadcast of Off the Hook, uh, sign name withheld by request.
[53:43.480 --> 53:48.440]  Well, this is the July 4th edition of Off the Hook and I do not believe we have any tickets here to give away.
[53:48.560 --> 53:49.300]  Is that, is that right, Kyle?
[53:49.460 --> 53:50.440]  I, we don't have any.
[53:50.560 --> 53:55.040]  Well, no, no, I mean, I, I'm aware of, of people who can't make it trying to sell tickets.
[53:55.300 --> 53:57.460]  So, you know, ask a friend, ask around.
[53:57.620 --> 54:06.420]  There might be people who have, um, a change of plans or a crisis that they, um, just simply cannot make it happen and, um, maybe you could get their ticket.
[54:06.640 --> 54:08.220]  Yeah, they're totally transferable.
[54:08.440 --> 54:09.320]  They, they, they really are.
[54:09.480 --> 54:12.760]  So, uh, um, by all means, look into that or look at the website.
[54:13.120 --> 54:13.980]  Um, okay.
[54:14.040 --> 54:16.280]  Our phone number again, we had calls coming in while I was talking.
[54:16.420 --> 54:17.400]  Unfortunately, they're not there anymore.
[54:17.500 --> 54:28.480]  And we only have one phone line still three, four, seven, three, three, five, zero, eight, one, eight, uh, in the minute or two left, uh, if someone calls in, we will, uh, we will put you right on, uh, there are improvements around here, right?
[54:28.580 --> 54:29.480]  Right, Kyle, you've noticed.
[54:29.920 --> 54:35.060]  Actually, yeah, the station has done a really interesting, uh, gallery, sort of a art display.
[54:35.300 --> 54:43.460]  Uh, first of all, they painted the walls in the hallway and, uh, and, um, redid some of the facilities, uh, bathroom and, uh, important things.
[54:43.700 --> 54:44.680]  We did that for you listeners.
[54:45.180 --> 54:46.860]  The functional things in a radio station.
[54:47.180 --> 54:47.960]  We hope you appreciate it.
[54:48.100 --> 54:57.420]  Some of that involves plumbing, but yeah, uh, there have been, uh, great, uh, strides, I think, as far as, um, small desks and, uh, uh, areas to work if you're a producer.
[54:57.860 --> 55:03.600]  And, um, this, this one install is just a line of frames and it is really amazing.
[55:03.780 --> 55:04.840]  You can look at them.
[55:04.980 --> 55:09.020]  They are the, um, WBAI program guides.
[55:09.140 --> 55:10.660]  I can't remember what, what is the...
[55:10.660 --> 55:11.300]  The folios.
[55:11.440 --> 55:12.080]  The folios.
[55:12.280 --> 55:13.360]  Wow, okay, that's great.
[55:13.380 --> 55:19.140]  I had only seen one of these before, uh, which we, we found from a friend who, who shared it with us.
[55:27.420 --> 55:31.640]  Well, uh, installed and cool to have here at WBAI.
[55:31.840 --> 55:35.620]  Now, uh, just also to, uh, on, on this theme and we'll take, uh, this phone call.
[55:35.660 --> 55:38.140]  In fact, I'm going to pick up this phone call now, but we're going to take it in a second.
[55:38.720 --> 55:47.380]  Um, what, um, uh, our friend Bernie S, uh, uh, reports that we have a new transmitter as of Sunday and that, and people should be testing our signal.
[55:47.540 --> 55:52.400]  Unfortunately, I, I tested on Long Island and I found that, uh, we have lost Suffolk County.
[55:52.400 --> 55:59.960]  Now, if someone can refute that, I'd love to hear it, but, um, maybe we need to tweak it a little bit more and, and pump some more power in that particular direction.
[56:00.100 --> 56:09.920]  But, uh, if, if, uh, if, if, if you're driving in your car, check out our signal and, uh, and tell us how it is, if it's improved, if it's, if it's degraded, we need to know this is how we improve.
[56:10.060 --> 56:11.700]  Yeah, this is the break-in period, everyone.
[56:12.000 --> 56:13.120]  So, so listen up.
[56:13.260 --> 56:13.500]  All right.
[56:13.580 --> 56:14.940]  And, uh, you're on the air, caller.
[56:16.220 --> 56:16.500]  Hi.
[56:22.500 --> 56:41.060]  My clothing, and I came across a classic t-shirt saying 21st Century Phone Call Security, and it has Bob and Eve and Alice and Echelon, Calais, Patriot, Carnivore, NSA.
[56:41.060 --> 56:43.020]  Is there an octopus on this shirt?
[56:43.600 --> 56:44.640]  Yes, there is.
[56:44.800 --> 56:45.880]  Oh, okay.
[56:45.880 --> 56:46.220]  Wow.
[56:46.320 --> 56:47.060]  Good call there, Carl.
[56:47.120 --> 56:47.900]  What shirt is that?
[56:47.900 --> 56:53.540]  Uh, this was, uh, this was an interesting shirt that we did a couple years ago.
[56:53.540 --> 57:09.440]  Um, I can't remember all the details, but what you're describing is, um, our shirt, our, one of our NSA or surveillance shirts, and it describes how your phone calls are intercepted or functionally what that looks like with this, uh, this octopus of, of,
[57:09.620 --> 57:18.500]  uh, uh, interested communications, uh, intermediaries, uh, if you will, who, who might, uh, have access, whether it's a government or, uh, AT&T, et cetera.
[57:18.940 --> 57:20.280]  So hopefully that answers your question.
[57:21.100 --> 57:29.340]  My question actually was, are there pictures of the front and back, which are different, of the shirt?
[57:30.480 --> 57:32.600]  You know, I would hope so.
[57:32.940 --> 57:36.360]  We'd, we'd be pretty stupid if we didn't take pictures of it, but yeah, it's entirely possible.
[57:36.740 --> 57:38.000]  You know, we'll have to look.
[57:38.100 --> 57:38.780]  We'll have to look.
[57:38.880 --> 57:53.420]  We will double check with our, our merchandise manager, but I, I have to say this was a very popular shirt and one that we only had limited quantities of, and I don't know if we actually ever got, um, a photo of it, but, uh, if we have, uh, something on hand,
[57:53.580 --> 57:53.960]  we'll look into it.
[57:54.040 --> 58:01.660]  That's why we have to, uh, you know, get these shirts while they last, because, uh, when, when they're gone, we, we forget about them and we don't have any record of them.
[58:02.520 --> 58:06.560]  Go to your local 2600 meetings, uh, this Friday, 2600.com slash meetings.
[58:07.280 --> 58:11.440]  Um, and I would also like to thank Fee Montes, Fee Montes for this, uh, Independence Day song.
[58:11.440 --> 58:12.220]  Check it out on YouTube.
[58:12.480 --> 58:12.760]  All right.
[58:12.980 --> 58:14.640]  And, uh, we will see you here again next week.
[58:14.820 --> 58:15.060]  Good night.
[58:15.060 --> 58:33.020]  We depend it, depend it on, we depend it, depend it on, we depend it, depend it on, we depend it on the enemies, refugees, to break our collectives, pro-wings, to let us pay less than little Asian girls, so like Mikey, keep doing it and doing it and doing it,
[58:33.140 --> 58:36.260]  lies, doing it and doing it and doing it, so lies.
[58:36.680 --> 58:44.560]  Yeah, we depend it on, read engine to tell us, lock choices, radio station, playlist to allow We'll see her voices and move them to keep us team-moval.
[58:44.680 --> 58:46.500]  Cause we independence, dependent on.
[58:47.160 --> 58:49.140]  We independence, dependent on.
[58:49.820 --> 58:51.840]  We independence, dependent on.
[58:52.360 --> 58:54.480]  We independence, dependent on.
[58:54.700 --> 58:58.840]  And they're gonna get me a sucker unless you learn to respect your mother and every other.
[58:59.020 --> 59:01.700]  Aro-Palestinian, huanaka, africana, flow.
[59:01.940 --> 59:03.920]  Cause we are human to the cold, corazón.
[59:05.240 --> 59:08.060]  So hoodies, look at each other's eyes and don't roll with the hype.
[59:08.120 --> 59:11.040]  Cause it's a natural law that what goes around, comes around.
[59:11.260 --> 59:13.460]  And from this law, I see what you see.
[59:13.740 --> 59:15.480]  What goes around, comes around.
[59:16.400 --> 59:18.160]  What goes around, comes around.
[59:19.040 --> 59:23.520]  So on this sunny day of summer, let's see if I remember that this day is for peace.
[59:23.520 --> 59:25.160]  And not just the last of mine.
[59:25.340 --> 59:28.040]  But one that many times, including not kinds.
[59:28.480 --> 59:30.780]  Chavez, King, and Gandhi sacrificed us to live.
[59:31.040 --> 59:34.040]  Life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness to bring us.
[59:34.320 --> 59:35.000]  Pasi dignidad.
[59:35.400 --> 59:36.460]  Pasi dignidad.
[59:36.740 --> 59:37.740]  Pasi dignidad.
[59:38.020 --> 59:40.640]  To the life of wisdom, we don't come together to rise.
[59:40.640 --> 59:41.520]  That's from this abyss.
[59:42.400 --> 59:44.100]  We gotta be independent.
[59:44.520 --> 59:45.460]  Stop the negligence.
[59:45.640 --> 59:47.300]  Respect all your sisters and brother.
[59:47.500 --> 59:50.520]  Look around at one another to see what you're dependent on.
[59:50.680 --> 59:52.480]  And just what you're independent from.
[59:52.720 --> 59:54.140]  So we can gather up the song.
[59:54.280 --> 59:56.600]  That with you and me together, we can fight to be free.
[59:58.120 --> 59:59.520]  So pray for peace.
[59:59.740 --> 01:00:00.860]  So work for peace.
[01:00:01.660 --> 01:00:02.840]  Organize for peace.
[01:00:04.240 --> 01:00:05.520]  Poetry for peace.
[01:00:06.840 --> 01:00:07.860]  Pray for peace.
[01:00:08.240 --> 01:00:08.880]  Work for peace.
[01:00:09.360 --> 01:00:10.120]  Pray for peace.
[01:00:10.300 --> 01:00:10.860]  Work for peace.
[01:00:11.080 --> 01:00:12.140]  Organize for peace.
[01:00:12.380 --> 01:00:13.540]  Poetry for peace.
[01:00:15.100 --> 01:00:15.460]  Boss.
[01:00:17.500 --> 01:00:17.840]  Boss.
[01:00:37.780 --> 01:00:38.200]  Boss.
[01:00:45.480 --> 01:00:51.220]  WBAI is also heard on the World Wide Web, able to reach all the people, all the time.
[01:00:55.660 --> 01:00:59.940]  We're the station of the people, by the people, and for the people.
[01:01:02.280 --> 01:01:07.040]  The poet, the physician, the farmer, the scientist, the magician.
[01:01:07.040 --> 01:01:10.280]  The man in the street.
[01:01:10.460 --> 01:01:15.840]  May peace and prosperity be with you, our people, on the birthday of this great nation.
[01:01:15.840 --> 01:01:20.980]  From your friends at 99.5 FM, WBAI, New York.