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This is listener sponsored WBAI New York.
So it is. You are listening to WBAI New York. The time is just about eight o'clock
and that means it's time once again for another exciting edition of Off the Hook.
Now I can't make a call, we couldn't get much worse.
But if they could, they would. Bum-diddly-bum for the best, expect the worst.
I hope that's understood. Bum-diddly-bum!
Bum-diddly-bum!
Bum-diddly-bum!
And a very good evening to everybody. The program is Off the Hook. Emmanuel Goldstein
here with you, joined tonight by Rob T. Firefly. Good evening. Kyle. Hello. And Alex. Good evening.
Well, here we all are. Trump gave a 90 minute press conference earlier today, so needless to
say we got no work done because we were riveted to that. But wow, you'll be hearing I think all
kinds of excerpts, including of course Mr. Kurd, which is what he wound up calling a Kurdish
reporter. Yeah, there's so much to digest with just not enough time. I think he times these
things so that we don't have enough time to digest it and talk about it intelligently.
But we have other things to talk about, lots of other things in the world of technology,
in the world of hacking, in the world of fun and new things. Speaking of which, at the very
beginning of the show, we should focus I think on what happened over the weekend, which was
Maker Faire that we all were at at some point, right? We were indeed. Yes, sir. Yes. All right.
Well, that's good. And hopefully a lot of listeners, I know a lot of listeners were there because we
met you. And I want to thank you for coming and for being a part of it. But what magic that is.
Now, Alex, you came with your son. I did. Was it his first time? It was indeed. We tried to go
last year, if you recall. And you tried to find parking in Corona. Yes, we made the very big
mistake of trying to find parking in Corona during Maker Faire. It seems like everybody
there has some kind of minor driveway that decreases the available parking spots. It's
their driveway. They're very proud of their driveways. You do not park in front of their
driveways. I don't know. It drove me mad. It drove me mad last year. So we didn't make that mistake
this year. We took the subway and then the walk, the long walk. Let me just tell you about the
subway. We didn't know about this last week. And I'm sorry to anybody who went through this. They
closed the station that was going to Maker Faire as you're coming from the city. And it's kind of
cool because when you bypass it, you go way up high above the station on that track that they
use for the express trains. I'd never done that before. But then you had to go to Metz Willis
Point and come back one stop. It was pretty simple if you knew what was going on. The first day,
we didn't know what was going on. So, yeah. Sorry about that. I don't think the MTA told
Maker Faire about that.
No. And we almost went accidentally to a Paul Simon concert.
Oh. Don't let that happen. I mean, a few years ago, maybe. But I don't think it's... yeah.
In their defense, I think this is the MTA's way of saying that they make stuff, too.
Yes. That's a good point. Not always the best things. There were much better devices,
I think, at Maker Faire.
And there's much worse things that could happen than accidentally going to a Paul Simon concert.
Don't get me wrong there.
That's true.
But, you know, it's... I mean, you could have gone to the Kanye West concert last year. They
were having the exact same time. That would have been confusing.
That's true. But you're right.
But you made it.
You know, it was my son's first Maker Faire. And if you recall correctly,
as soon as he saw you, he just wanted to leave.
Ran the other way.
He did.
Yeah. It's a normal reaction most kids have. And it's actually a good test of their instincts.
This is true. But it really had nothing to do with your charisma or your natural sense
of affability. It was more to do with the fact that he was so incredibly overwhelmed
by everything happening around him, by this gigantic hand picking up cars and crushing them.
Isn't that amazing?
In front of his face. It was very, very cool. There were all kinds of robots.
The tow truck people were taking no prisoners. They were very strict. If you parked in the
wrong place, your car got crushed. That's how it works. That's how it should work.
Yeah. He's still talking to this day and telling all of his friends about how cool it was that
he met R2-D2 at Maker Faire. And then he told me on the way out that,
Daddy, this was the most amazing thing ever. I met R2-D2. Did you know that he's a real hero?
And I said, yes, I did. And I never met R2-D2 before. It was really, really was very cool.
So it was an awesome time. And then after he met R2-D2 and saw the races, the car races,
there's like kind of makeshift go karts that people were making, walked around the whole
thing about seven times, he finally was calm enough to sit and hang out at the 2600 van
with us for a while.
And so many people were coming up to the van. And Kyle, I have to say the phone booth,
the 1950s phone booth, what a hit that was, especially with kids. What do you attribute that to?
Well, it's fascinating. It's a sort of a closed space and it's wood. It's got this sort of warm,
I don't know, warm feel. And you're kind of stepping into the past almost, this rotary
dial phone, mysterious device. And well, we basically leave it open and encourage people
to check it out. And the way we set it up was so that people could have like a two-way
sort of private intercom, basically one person, maybe somebody's parent picks up a phone and then
their student or goes and picks up the other end basically is able to say hi. And they can
basically have this kind of private conversation. And all we did is just add a battery. I mean,
it's a very simple technology, some microphones and some speakers and a battery. So that gives
us the ability to, instead of say, hey, look at our old phone booth that's not working. It's like,
yeah, it kind of works. And hey, you can go talk on it. So what do you want? And that ends up being
really entertaining because so many of, I think, the young people, their concept of speaking on
the phone or using communications technology is based on sort of tablets, touchscreens, and
different chat and I guess emojis too now. I don't know. But this is a totally different way.
And I think parents too, they get kind of a kick out of it, but also they're sort of like over it
because they've been using them their whole lives. So just the whole range of reactions is the best.
And it makes our table and the project there that much more exciting. And it's been just
basically something we were motivated to do from going to Maker Faire and getting ideas and putting
it all together into something.
And you know, it's one of my favorite things to do, to ask the kids who came up to the table,
show them. We had a number of rotary phones, including the phone booth, but also a couple
of desktop phones. And we would ask the kids who come up, you know, can you dial us a number on
this? And watching the ones who had seen it in films or whatever, they can do it, but they've
never touched one in real life and had that kind of awe about it. And other ones who had never
like even seen it or seen how it works or anything like that. And so they're just trying to figure
it out and poking and prodding at it. And then that experience of actually being able to go into
a phone booth, close the door, pick up the phone and talk to somebody, I think added so much.
And, you know, it's a taste of the past, really. And it's a little taste of how things used to be
and how things used to work. And it's fun for the parents. It's fun for the kids. It was fun for us.
I mean, I think it's safe to say we all had a great time just operating all this and letting
this happen. And I think it was even fun for the Lilo and Stitch lunchbox that housed the battery
for the phone system there.
Well, it just amazed me how into it the kids were. I mean, you would think something as old
as a phone booth, let alone a phone booth with a rotary phone inside it, would be something that
wouldn't appeal to them. Instead, it seemed to be one of the highlights for them. I saw one kid
ran across almost the entire parking lot, a beeline right into the phone booth. I'm not
sure what game he was playing, but he knew exactly where he was going.
I think he was playing the time. He was speed making, basically, because it was time to go.
And he was trying to get everything before he really had to be pulled out the door by mom and
dad. But, yeah, I mean, the questions, too, the curiosity. They see this. They want to know,
OK, whether it's how it was used then or how we're reinterpreting it or using it now or why
I have it set up this way and how we're able to repurpose something that's sort of an older,
outmoded technology. They just are full of questions and curiosity and are able to have
that conversation with us and in their families and friend groups. And it's really a really cool
chance to talk about telephones and communicating. What was so cool was this scene repeated itself
over and over again, where you basically show them, as Rob said, either a phone that was on
the desk or the payphone itself. And then you tell them that you can talk to this princess
phone that's on the desk from the payphone. All you have to do is pick it up and talk.
And, you know, these are kids coming with their parents who they've known for some time and they
were just with them. And yet the thrill that they go through by hearing their voice on the phone
from inside the phone booth, it's something that surprises me. And, you know, I'm a sucker for
old technology and, you know, being captivated by the simple things. But to see this, to see that
their eyes light up at that, I to this day, I really don't understand why, why it's why it's
so incredibly alluring to them. And I'm trying to, I'm trying to figure out what it is about
the technology, that particular technology. And I think it's got something to do with the fact that
it's more accessible. You know, you actually see the phone working, you can take it apart,
you can understand the electronics behind it, as opposed to a cell phone, which, you know,
if you drop it, it's broken and nobody can fix it. Yeah, and it's the access to actually
do something with it. I mean, we had a candlestick phone on the on the desk from 1907. So it's like,
here's this real thing, it's actually 111 years old. But yeah, you can pick it up and and try it
out and see if you can figure out how people used to use it. And the dynamo still worked,
you could crank it and ring the bell. And it was, it was, it was great for the kids. I think it was
also really good, really great for a lot of the adults who, again, a taste of the past, they
remembered having these things. We had one of the big Western electric hall phones that everyone had
of a certain age at some point. And, you know, we had people come up and see the van and go,
Oh, I used to work for the phone company. And, you know, I would shake their hand. I used to
work against the phone company. Great to meet you. But I think for all involved, it was just such a
there's just something magical about being able to pick this stuff up and use it again.
Yeah, they want to know how did you get that? Or why is that here? What are you doing with this?
And the candlestick I have a funny story, an older gentleman came over and
so people know what a candlestick phone is the kind that they used in the 1920s,
the operator getting into the place.
For like a party line, if you ever watch old like Lassie episodes.
Well, yeah, just basically it doesn't have a dial. You pick it up, you hold the one piece to your
ear and you speak into the mouthpiece and the operator gets on and dials number four.
Yeah, you spin a crank and that's how you switch the call.
Our crank wasn't working all that well.
Well, we had to adjust some of the parts and this older guy, he was pointing at different things and
I started kind of paying attention to what he was saying and we were able to get it to ring.
So that was cool.
He sensed that it was already producing voltage and we just sort of adjusted the actual ringers.
He just walked right up to it and started fiddling with it.
Yeah, that's what you do at Maker Faire.
Yeah, but and that's just it. It's the tactile nature of them.
They're very ergonomic and I think the other thing is it's very intimate.
I think that's why people really get a lot out of it and light up with that
sensation because it's you can hold it and it feels really solid and it's the
intimacy of that communication.
Just having someone speaking right so closely to you and it's kind of a
beautiful thing to see and to be able to make happen for people.
Yeah, I think the tactile nature of it is absolutely right and another thing I think
we're missing too is just phone booths in general are in such short supply these days.
They've all been ripped out of every place in the city.
They're almost impossible to find.
But there are no phone booths in the city.
Right, I mean maybe in some kind of you know antiquated hotels or you know the older clubs
and things still have these little phone booths but they don't have actual pay phones in them.
And so being able to go into this booth and you have this sense of privacy around you when
you're into that booth and you're talking and you see it working in front of your eyes.
You know, it is kind of inspiring because it reminds you of why you got into phones
because there's something magical about the phone.
There's something magical about the way it works and the way that information is
transferred through a wire from one person's mouth to another person's ear.
And you know it's probably what really inspired all of us way back in the day to become phone
freaks because the phone system itself was this incredibly magical computer system that
we wanted to figure out how it works.
And I think children have that same attitude towards the world.
All children are in a sense scientists and they are in a sense hackers because
they maintain that attitude and hackers I think throughout their lives maintain this
childlike attitude of curiosity towards all things.
And it's just I think a matter of maintaining that sense of curiosity that is really important
and that's what Maker Faire does for all of us once a year.
I'm going back all the time.
And it's not just limited to here in New York.
There are Maker Faires all over the world.
Actually Kyle we were talking about finally making it to the UK Maker Faire since we have
lots of friends over there and we found out that this year was apparently the last one
they had.
It was in Newcastle upon Tyne I believe is how you say that.
Yes.
And for some reason it's not going to be there and they don't have another place yet.
Hopefully they find something because I think the UK really deserves Maker Faire, Brexit or not.
There are other ones though in other parts of the world like Rome is a big one that's
coming up really soon actually.
And there's one in Berlin and of course there's the Bay Area.
And there are many Maker Faires all over the place as well.
So if you happen to see this and you go to Maker Faire dot com, M-A-K-E-R-F-A-I-R-E dot
com, you can learn about Maker Faires in your area.
Maybe start one of your own.
Just be a part of the magic because they really get the hacker spirit and that's something
that deserves to be noted whenever it occurs.
And it's just an incredible thing to see especially when you see young people who are into this
in a healthy way, into technology, building things, breaking things, fixing things and
just asking a whole lot of questions.
To me it's just the most amazing thing that we started the magazine back in the 80s when
the phone company was this mighty monolithic entity that we couldn't even get our minds
around.
And now here we are with the last remaining phone company van from New York Telephone
and a pay phone and the old fashioned way of using the network.
And we're the only ones holding on to that it seems other than some old linesmen and
people who used to work for the phone company.
But it's weird that the hackers are the ones that are most interested in preserving the
system, not the companies that actually ran it.
And I guess that's not that surprising when you think about the motivations behind each.
But like you said, Alex, it's kind of a childish way, in a good way, a childish way of being
curious and just wanting to play with things.
And that's what phone freaking, that's what hacking has always been about.
So I'm glad we're able to hold on to it.
If the companies themselves don't appreciate what they had, at least we do.
And at least the kids of today are learning through our eyes.
And I think that's really awesome.
Hear, hear.
And learning so much.
There was just a buzz, a fervor of activity all weekend.
And so many different interesting people came up to us.
And those kids from India were amazing.
Other exhibits.
Yeah, the presenters, people who were from other countries visiting and presenting stuff.
It was just fantastic.
Really a positive, positive experience.
A big thanks to everyone at Maker Faire from us and for making us feel right at home there
as a part of the vending and exhibition.
And I got to tip my hat to the venue as well.
The New York Hall of Science.
I think it's one of those kind of hidden gems that a lot of people don't really consider
or still know about.
But if you're local to the city and you've got younger people in your life who might
be interested, take them out there.
Because it's a heck of a place.
There's lots of fun things to do and learn.
I went there when I was a kid.
And bringing the kids and my family there now there.
And it's a heck of a place.
And there's so much to learn, even when Maker Faire isn't going on in the fairgrounds.
Right.
You get this feeling you're carrying on the World's Fair in the future.
Hey, I was at the World's Fair as a small child.
And I remember, and everybody around my age who grew up in New York remembers this.
The World's Fair, the picture phones where you were being shown this new form of technology
that one day would be commonplace.
And we still don't really have good picture phones, but whatever.
I just remember picking up one of these phones and talking to a kid that I didn't know.
That was someplace around, probably just around the corner.
But it's the same basic thrill.
And only a few meters away from where we were at the Hall of Science.
And just to think about that, to think back to the 60s when that took place,
and to see that being mimicked in different ways here in 2018.
So, wow.
It's truly amazing.
And of course, you mentioned the atmosphere of the Hall of Science.
Also the atmosphere of the surrounding communities.
Corona, one of my favorite communities.
Lots of street food all the time being just cooked right there on the corner.
And not far from Jackson Heights and Flushing.
Great places to hang out and explore a little bit.
Hopefully a lot of people did that as well.
Okay, so we have other things going on.
In fact, we have a special event we're going to announce.
We've been kind of hinting at this over the past few hours to our fans on Twitter.
And we are going to be doing something unheard of, unprecedented.
First of its kind ever.
Never before.
Maybe never again.
Who knows?
Next week.
Next week.
October 3rd.
My god.
Next week is October.
Wow.
Okay.
Sorry.
Miles away.
I just can't believe how fast.
Yeah, next week, October 3rd, is when the presidential alert feature on everybody's
cell phone is going to be tested.
That's right.
Everyone in America with a cell phone will receive the same text message on the same
day at the same time.
Now FEMA, our friends at FEMA, will be conducting a nationwide wireless emergency alert test,
WEA, the scariest radio station in the world.
It'll be taking place at 2.18 p.m.
And that will be followed by a nationwide emergency alert test on broadcast TV and radio.
So it's going to be a day of panic, I guess.
So, okay, 2.18 p.m., everyone's phone is going to go off with an alert.
And that will be followed a couple of minutes later by, I guess, every TV and radio station,
including this one, broadcasting a national emergency alert.
Now, God help us if there actually is an emergency then.
Because we're going to be testing everything.
It's going to be, people are probably going to be trying to ignore it.
According to FEMA, the test will assess the readiness to distribute an emergency message
nationwide and determine whether improvements are needed.
The test on your phone will read Presidential Alert and will include the following text.
This is a test of the National Wireless Emergency Alert System.
No action is needed.
And that test will last about one minute.
They say 100 mobile carriers will partake in the test.
I imagine flip phones probably won't work.
I don't know.
Maybe they will.
We have a special fact sheet from FEMA all about this.
The Integrated Public Alert and Warning System.
IPAWS.
They love their acronyms, don't they?
I-P-A-W-S.
Integrated Public Alert and Warning System.
National test October 3, 2018.
National EAS and WEA test.
Now, Federal Emergency Management Agency in coordination with the Federal Communications
Commission will conduct a nationwide test of the Emergency Alert System and Wireless
Emergency Alert System on October 3, 2018.
The test messages will be sent using FEMA's IPAWS, which enables authorities to send emergency
messages to multiple communications networks, including the EAS and WEA, as part of the
nation's modern alert and warning infrastructure.
So actually, what will be happening is probably the same alert.
The alert first goes to your phone and then goes to broadcast TV and radio, which I guess
kind of puts you at a disadvantage if you don't have a phone and you only have a TV.
You have to wait a couple of minutes.
The WEA test message begins at 2.18 p.m.
The EAS message will be sent at 2.20 p.m., and that's Eastern Time.
This will be the first nationwide presidential-level WEA test.
And if you want to opt out of it, you're out of luck.
You can't.
This is mandatory.
You cannot opt out.
You can't opt out, Alex.
I wasn't planning on it.
All right, well, just, you know, get used to it.
It's happening.
I was sort of looking forward to it.
So what's the next best thing?
Well, we decided it would be fun to make this an event.
And so what we're doing is we're going to be reserving the space downstairs at the Commons
Cafe here in Brooklyn.
And what that means is at around 2 o'clock, we are inviting 100 or so, maybe a couple
of hundred people, our closest friends, you included, to come by and gather in a room
with your phones out, with the volume up, and we are going to capture this event in
a way that nobody else will.
Imagine hundreds of phones going off at the same time with various emergency alert tones.
And the uniqueness of this kind of event is, you know, it cannot be overstated.
This is something that has never happened before.
Now, short of a real emergency, which you cannot predict, I don't think we'll have
another opportunity to actually capture something like this, where so many people are experiencing
the same thing at the same time, the whole country experiencing this all at once.
We want to do all kinds of experiments.
I want to have at least one phone turned off, and then we turn it on again in a couple hours,
see if that gets the tones.
But basically just, you know, have some fun with this.
What about reception?
What about reception?
Oh, I hope we get cell phone service down there.
Has anyone looked into that?
That's a big deal.
You know, of course, we're in Brooklyn.
Yeah, people get cell phone service downstairs.
But you know what?
We're going to check.
I was looking earlier, and I think that's part of our planning, but we may have people
on the sidewalk versus people inside the building.
Maybe the signal will be that much more powerful because of the occasion.
You know what?
We'll get a booster if we have to.
Yeah, don't worry.
We'll make sure this works.
So anyway, we've talked to a number of people about this so far, people at the cafe, people
at the radio station.
Everybody we talked to is super enthused by it.
It's really kind of neat to see that kind of reaction.
And in fact, we were told that we should record a promo for the radio station.
And since we usually like to get out of here pretty quickly, I figured maybe we could stay
some time and make the promo here live on the air.
So does that sound good to you guys?
This is a little nerve wracking.
It's a little nerve wracking, I know.
And it's hard to get it right the first time.
So we'll probably have to take a couple of takes.
Well, what we can do is edit it together a little bit later on and then put it on the
air, and it'll be perfect.
So what I will do is read the first headline there.
You read the second paragraph, Rob.
Alex, you read the third.
And Kyle, you read that single line at the end.
What about the dates and the time?
I'll take care of that, because I'm going to come back.
I'm going to start it, and I'm going to end it.
All right?
All right.
Let's see if we can get this right.
Sorry, folks.
This is how radio production in the modern age is done.
We sometimes have to double up.
Take notes from the pros here.
Yeah, maybe not.
Not in this case, anyway.
OK, do you need a countdown?
No, no, it doesn't matter, because I'm going to use digital editing later.
All right.
Yeah, I don't need that.
All right, here we go.
Ready?
Quiet on set.
Come to the first ever wireless emergency alert party.
Shortly after 2 p.m. on Wednesday, October 3rd, every cell phone in the nation will receive a rot.
For God's sake, Rob.
Really?
The first sentence?
Frozen peas.
You saw, I got mine perfectly.
OK, let's try this again.
All right, take two.
Shortly after 2 p.m. on Wednesday, October 3rd, every cell phone in the nation will receive a
wireless emergency alert test for the first time in history.
This is a mandatory feature.
You cannot opt out of it.
This will give Donald Trump the ability to send a message to every mobile phone in the
nation whenever he wants.
While we can't stop this from happening, we can certainly add ourselves to the history.
And what could be more historic than having a crowd of people together, adding to the
cacophony when all of our phones start sounding alerts at the same time?
This is an event that will be captured for posterity, so don't miss it.
Oh, I'm sorry.
I froze up.
Oh, yeah, that's right.
Wednesday, October 3rd at 1.30 p.m. at the Commons Cafe, Brooklyn, New York.
Excuse me.
I'll take that again.
At the Commons Cafe, 388 Atlantic Avenue in Brooklyn, New York.
For more information, check.
You know what?
Where do we check?
We didn't work that part out yet.
For more information, follow us on Twitter.
No, hold on.
This is in conjunction with Off The Hook.
For more information, follow Hacker Radio Show on Twitter or email oth at 2600.com.
And you know what?
They can just do a voiceover if they have to add anything else.
All right, fine.
We're done.
We're done with that.
That's what you get.
That wasn't too bad.
No, that wasn't too bad.
And through the magic of nonlinear editing, that will be perfect.
All right, what else are we talking about?
Lancashire, where Mrs. Buckley lives.
Every July, peas grow there.
Don't beat up yourself.
Sorry.
I do professional voice work.
So this is a bit.
I didn't like my so don't miss it.
You can say it again if you want.
I don't have my after card.
This is an event that will be captured for posterity.
So don't miss it.
See, now the first one doesn't seem so bad, does it?
No, that sounded way worse.
Yeah.
So OK, I'd like to know what other people do.
Obviously, not everybody can make it to this event.
People all over the country, though, including Hawaii and Alaska, will be a part of this as
well.
So we want to hear all kinds of feedback.
And the cool thing about this is I think we're the only people planning a large event
with lots of phones.
So this is a hacker thing.
This is an off the hook thing.
This is a BAI thing.
Let's make it unique.
Let's make it fun.
And yeah, I know it sucks that Trump has this power to do this.
Actually, it was signed under Obama.
It's just a bad idea because it can be abused.
But we can have fun with the technology.
The fun part, the real fun part is that it's just such a diversity of equipment, such a
diversity of carriers, different tones and sounds, different ways the messages, the timing,
ways they will be delivered, and the timing, of course, that all will play into how this
works.
So we're really interested in what it will be like with such a mix of people and devices
on this network.
Well, that's right.
And I think we should encourage people to bring a myriad of devices as well.
Bring your old phones.
Bring your new phones.
Here's the thing.
We have a week to figure this out, a little less than a week.
Only WEA compatible cell phones that are switched on and within range of an active cell tower
and whose wireless provider participates in WEA will be capable of receiving the test
message.
So I guess we have to see if our cell phones are WEA compatible, which I imagine most are.
Mine is.
I got a flood alert yesterday.
And I didn't.
Why didn't I get this?
I was in the same place.
It was serious.
It was like a foot of water.
It was a foot of water for me, too.
I didn't get an alert.
Were you maybe upstairs and he was downstairs?
We were next to each other.
We were doing a different radio show.
And all of a sudden, you got an alert.
It's because your phone's waterproof.
That's why.
Yeah.
Well, my shoes aren't.
I can tell you that.
Anyway, I imagine most new phones, i.e.
new phones being within the last five years, are capable of this.
I imagine most wireless companies are going to be participating.
But if you know of exceptions, let us know.
Because this is how we learn about things.
I think you should bring the candlestick phone, just so people know what the hell we were talking
about.
Landlines are not going to get this.
Another advantage to landlines, by the way.
Very true.
Now, this WEA will include a special tone.
Some describe it as quite loud.
This is FEMA saying this.
Some describe it as quite loud.
Oh, this is going to be awesome.
And vibration.
Both repeated twice.
A distinctive WEA message dialog box also appears in the mobile device's screen.
Here's a question.
What language will the WEA test message be in?
Well, WEA currently only supports messages in English.
Oh, that's the only one.
You thought I was going to say Spanish, didn't you?
No, it's only English.
How do you like that?
When things hit the fan, only English speakers will be told about it.
iPause can deliver emergency message content in multiple languages and is working with
private sector systems to support delivery of messages in more languages in the future.
Come on.
Really, what does it take?
What does it take to transmit in a different language?
It's really not that hard.
So this means the sizable population of this country who don't speak English, or at least
don't completely understand English, are going to have their phones make a scary noise, do
something they can't control, and then show them something that they might or might not
understand.
What could possibly go wrong with this?
Well, there have been EAS tests before this.
There was one in November 2011, one in September 2016.
But that's emergency alert system.
That's over the radio.
And I remember we taped a whole bunch of channels and saw all kinds of weirdness going on with
mistakes that were made.
This is the first time ever that this has been done over the cell phone network.
So that's going to be something everybody will be talking about next week.
So you can be a part of some history here at the radio station, here at the Commons
Cafe downstairs, 388 Atlantic Avenue, Wednesday, October 3rd.
Gather at 1.30 p.m.
Test happens shortly after 2.
And it'll be a fun time.
I think we're broadcasting it live as well.
I think this is going to be great.
I think cacophony was the perfect word.
Yeah, don't overuse it, Alex.
You can't use words like that too often.
It's kind of a pun, too, isn't it, right?
How's it a pun?
Well, because it has phone.
Because it has phone in the word.
Like telephony.
Yeah, you know, our listeners, if you want to call us and talk about other things, please
feel free.
We're at 347-335-0818.
We'd love to hear from you.
And definitely spread the word because we want to get as many people together to share
this moment as possible.
You know, if the president is going to have the ability to grab us all by the smartphone
whenever he wants, we're going to need some community support.
So yeah, come down to the Cummins Cafe, our pleasant neighbors downstairs, 388 Atlantic
Avenue in Brooklyn, New York.
And join us midday Wednesday for some fun.
Yes, absolutely.
That'll be unique.
That'll be something we've never actually done before.
So we're looking forward to that.
So again, our phone number, if you have any feedback or things to discuss with us, 347-335-0818.
We have calls on the line.
Let's take one of them.
Good evening.
You're on off the hook.
Go ahead.
I see.
That sound.
That sound is not an emergency alert tone.
It's a sound you don't really hear that often anymore either.
Well, if you went to Maker Faire, you would have heard that sound by our van because we
were playing recordings.
In fact, I don't know if many people remember, dial tones used to sound more harsh.
And we were playing that one.
It drew some complaints.
In fact, people described it as a scratching noise or a buzz.
But that was a dial tone.
Before, that rather pleasant sounding dial tone, it had a different sound.
I don't have a recording of it, so I can't play it.
But again, our phone number, 347-335-0818.
Let's wait for a couple more people to call in.
And then we'll see if they actually stay on the line.
That would be nice.
There's apparently a problem with Apple Watches.
Late last week, Apple released more details about how with certain opt-in settings, Apple
Watch Series 4 will contact emergency services if the watch detects that you've had a hard
fall.
Can your watch do that?
It can detect if you've fallen down.
Before actually contacting first responders, the Apple Watch will try to give numerous
urgent alerts, tapping the wearer on the wrist, sounding a very loud alarm, not the kind we're
going to have next week, but a different kind of alarm, and also displaying a visual alert.
How does a watch tap you?
There's actually a physical tap mechanism?
I have no idea.
This whole thing just sounds completely ridiculous.
I imagine it's a component like you'd have in a pager that vibrates and does some sort
of kinetic movement like a vibrate mode in a cell phone.
Okay.
I'm not sure.
I don't own one.
It's just weird that they call it tapping.
But anyway, the alert gives the options of immediately calling an emergency SOS or tapping
I fell, but I'm okay, or I did not fall, or I dropped my watch and I'm still standing
up or all kinds of things.
If the Apple Watch detects that the wearer is immobile for about a minute, it begins
a 15-second countdown.
After that, the watch will contact emergency services, which often can use mobile phone
data to locate the wearer.
Apple says that the feature is automatically enabled for users who have entered their age
into their profile and are over 65.
The mostly opt-in nature of the service may mitigate but not completely address concerns
raised by some lawyers in the immediate aftermath of the September 12th announcement of the
watch.
I didn't know about the September 12th announcement.
It sounds rather ominous.
Apparently, a law professor at the University of California, Davis, was quick to point out
that by inviting the police into your home, Apple Watch wearers may be opening themselves
up to criminal liability.
I guess that's something to concern yourself with, right, Alex?
Yeah, sure.
I mean, if they receive a 911 call, they are entitled to enter your home if they believe
that you are in danger or you need help, you need some kind of community assistance.
That is a Fourth Amendment exception.
Normally, the home is sacrosanct.
I mean, the home is one of the places that's actually specifically mentioned in the Fourth
Amendment, so you would ordinarily need a warrant to enter the home if you're a law
enforcement officer.
Or maybe you'd think it's your apartment instead.
Yeah, well, I mean, that's an issue, yes.
But if they think that you're in distress, they can enter your home.
So if you banged your watch or it fell perhaps from a tall shelf and it tried to tap you,
but you weren't wearing it or something like that, and it called the police, the police
entered your home, and perhaps you had some marijuana or something like the anarchist
cookbook or, God forbid, a red box hanging around on the dining room table.
None of those are really bad things.
Those are all terrible examples.
You need to update your terms there, but...
Yeah, exactly, right.
But sure, then the police are in there, and anything they see that could be evidence of
a crime could then subject you to arrest.
So if you fall and you're wearing an Apple watch and it ratchets you out, try to crawl
into the hallway outside your apartment or house.
Into the street or something.
And that way they won't go into your house, right?
Well, maybe, unless they are in such a rush to help whoever it is that's fallen and could
not get up, that they just step over you, because they think, well, we were called for
somebody who fell in an apartment, and we need to step over this person.
We'll get to him next.
Can't they detect the watch is what called them?
I have no idea.
I mean, maybe, perhaps.
I can't believe we're having these conversations.
Hey, we have a caller on the line.
Good evening.
You're on off the hook.
Go ahead.
Hi.
Hi, guys.
How you doing?
What's on your mind?
Oh, man.
I remember growing up in the 80s, right?
And I used to call my grandmother.
She used to live on the Grand Concourse before she went to Clark City.
And I think in the 80s, like the mid-80s, they had that doubt.
And the one you're talking about, it was a tone with a scratchy background.
Now, in the 90s, the one that you hear now, that's the one that was introduced, like,
in the 90s, maybe even after the past 20-some years up to this day.
I do remember rotary phones in the 80s, because I'm 40 years old.
I remember growing up in the mid-80s.
I do remember seeing rotary phones in the Bronx, all over the Bronx.
We don't have no payphones left, just a few.
And there's still some left in Manhattan, just to correct you.
What they have now is-
I said that there weren't phone booths.
There are payphones, but you won't be able to find a booth, I don't believe.
Yeah.
What they have now is those link NYC towers.
They're very convenient.
You get free calls.
You can't beat that, man.
And I hope that they do them nationwide, because that'd be a wonderful thing.
Well, I mean, you can't beat that for certain things.
But also, those devices are spying on you in some ways.
If they go down for one reason or another, it doesn't have the same kind of reliability
of the old phone network.
OK.
Yeah, but I'm going to hang up.
So you can just tell me about those ringtones, like the ones I just mentioned.
Take care.
OK, thanks for your call.
Yeah, there are different generations of switching systems.
And the ringing tone, I think, was an entire part of the system.
It depends on what era, but the one that he was speaking to later was, I think, synthesized
in, I guess, I don't know, the early digital switches.
Yeah, pretty much.
That's why the cadence of rings today is pretty much the same everywhere.
Because the generations before that would have been like electromechanical or something.
Yeah, electromechanical, the old step systems.
Literally, every central office, every region had a different sound to it.
So you could say, hey, you know, I'm calling this particular office in the Bronx, or I'm
calling this particular office in Manhattan.
And you could sometimes hear it pulsing out.
You could hear just different weird sounds that were unique to those particular areas.
And you could still do that.
You could still do that with electronic digital systems.
But that's not where the priority of the designers is.
They want things to just work the same everywhere.
And it's a bit unfortunate, because you lose that magic, that romance of the system, where
you feel like you're going somewhere distant and hearing something different.
To build on what the caller said about the link NYC prevalence, and to build on what
you said, which is this issue of being the same everywhere, I'm wondering if the loss
of payphone booths is universal across the United States.
Are there other cities that still have payphone booths?
Because I'm thinking about having lived in London for a while, and then come back to
New York, where payphone booths in the UK, and in London in particular, they're very
iconic.
They still exist.
You see them all over the place.
It's sort of a symbol of the city.
And what was always interesting to me is that if you went into these payphone booths, the
phones were still in pretty much working order, but they were pretty much taken over by advertisements
for escort services and prostitutes.
And I think it's primarily because in the UK, my understanding is that prostitution
is not illegal over there, but the public solicitation of prostitution is.
So you put your ad in a phone booth, and that's how people know to call you, various numbers
and pictures and things like that.
But I think back to London, and it really is a symbol of the city.
I mean, does Cleveland still have phone booths?
Does Tulsa still have phone booths?
Or is this a New York thing?
The thing is, the phone booth that we brought to Maker Faire is an indoor phone booth.
It's made out of wood.
It's not supposed to be outdoors.
It was outdoors for that weekend.
But the other ones are metallic and are designed to be weatherproof.
So it's two different kinds.
And I think the ones that are the indoor phone booths have been preserved in many cases inside
establishments that recognize, hey, this is something I don't want to get rid of.
And so they make some kind of a deal with whoever was leasing it to them, or maybe that
company just goes out of business or something, and they hold on to it.
So I think there are probably a bunch of those around.
Not a whole lot, obviously.
But certainly, it's not zero.
And there are some outdoor phone booths.
I know because people send us pictures of them all the time.
There are outdoor phone booths and plenty of pay phones around the world.
But yeah, they're in danger of disappearing.
I think a lot of the outdoor phone booths that still exist are also being commercially
exploited because they're in the hands of, say, set-piece rental houses for film and
television production and things like that.
I was walking through the filming location, which was in Manhattan, near a place I used
to work, where they were filming a scene of the show Gotham, which took place, I think,
sometime in the past.
And so they had a bunch of phone booths lined up to make the street look older.
And as I looked up close to these, because I was walking down the sidewalk, they were
phone booths from all over the country with the markings of all different telcos and things.
So you wouldn't see that on screen.
They just looked like a row of phone booths.
I think it was fun.
I played with them a little bit, maybe.
We have another phone call.
Good evening.
You're on off the hook.
Go ahead.
I have to say, your phone doesn't sound very well connected right now.
You're not on your old landline, are you?
I'm not being paranoid, but they're probably listening.
Because normally a phone call doesn't last this long with me.
It slips off in 39 to 49 seconds.
It just cuts off, usually?
Yes, yes, yes.
That's terrible.
If you call me, 44 to 49 seconds.
If I call them, it's 39 to 49 seconds.
Then it goes right off.
Interesting that it ends in a nine.
You can't get a landline anymore?
They won't give you one?
They're telling me they can't find a place to put one.
I don't want to hear that.
Other people still have their landlines in this area.
They're probably trying to push you onto Fios or something like that.
Right, right.
That's what it is.
This box with this blue light.
We've heard many things about that.
This is tough.
The best thing you can do is do what you're doing now, letting people know that this is
not acceptable.
You're in New York?
Yeah, I'm in Manhattan.
I'm getting ready to write a letter to the advocate on West Street to see what happens.
OK, that's good.
Write to the Public Service Commission.
People say, yeah, this is technology, the price of advancement.
It's not true.
I mean, if people say they want something that works in a particular way, and enough
people say that, they'll find a way to make it happen.
OK.
All right?
All right.
Thanks.
Love your show.
Thanks for listening.
You know, we hear so many things from people.
It breaks my heart because, you know, I was commenting to a friend that if you listen
to radio interviews or television interviews from, say, 30 years ago, the people on the
phone sounded so much better than they do now.
That shouldn't be.
If we're truly advancing, we should sound great.
You know, it should sound great.
I mean, yeah, there's Skype connections, but they're not always that good.
You know, this is a technology that is proven.
And if people want to continue using it, there should be a way for them to do that.
One idea I would have is talk to other people in the building and discuss kind of what is
changing and how it's structured as far as the service that is provided now in the copper
realm.
Are a lot of people abandoning that?
Has Verizon convinced a lot of people?
Are you sort of the first to sort of be coerced or coaxed to move away from it?
And also, perhaps through those conversations, consider structuring it through like a business
account.
Maybe your management company can allocate lines and have it all under one sort of business
bill or divided in some way.
There's options still, but you have to really talk to other people that are there.
A PBX in your building or something that is run by the management company.
That's a good idea.
Yeah, it may be possible to have sort of a private line installed specifically for that
piece of equipment that the management company then operates and then issues extensions to
tenants.
You don't ever have to accept this is the way it is and it's not going to change.
It used to be, you know, when you made phone calls, if you were calling somebody in your
own town, you didn't have to dial as many numbers.
You could just dial, say, the last three digits of a small town and you'd get the
particular person attached to that phone number.
If you were outside the town, you'd have to dial more digits to get there.
There's places where that still works in that way.
There's no reason we can't operate a system that does that.
Now, I'm not saying that the new way of doing things or the new ways of doing things are
flawed.
They are, but they also have advantages and we shouldn't shy away from that either.
But when you cut off completely any connection to the past, you're losing something.
And I think what we saw at Maker Faire, we saw people enthused by that, by technology
they could get their hands on, they could understand, they could see the potential and
design something based on that.
It's just ignorant to let go and not look back.
And you're just much more powerful and they make so much more money off of you individually
as an individual resident and you're just always going to fare better if you can try
to find some kind of wholesale arrangement.
And the real crux of it is you don't want to be maximizing profit as individual residents
for them and having the lowest possible quality service, which is what they will try to do
to make the most money at the least cost to them, which will leave you with bad service.
And what you're advocating for in your community is to have the best kind of communication
method.
If you're going to switch, if things are changing, then you want to build and have a system that
you're happy with.
You're going to pay for it one way or another, so you might as well have something good.
And don't even get me started on payphones.
It's, you know, not everybody has a cell phone all the time.
Maybe it's broken, maybe it's out of battery, maybe you see an emergency, you need to be
able to access a network somehow.
And, you know, a reliable payphone in certain places can still be a necessity.
Hey, we have another phone call.
Good evening.
You're on Off The Hook.
Hey, good evening, guys.
We sure know about Verizon because I was the guy that cut my copper line last year and
had to put Fios in.
But it was interesting how you were talking about the World's Fair.
And we were there in September of 63.
And I remember the GM, you know, the place that they had the thing of the future and
the phones and all that.
But I let my sisters and my cousins, the girls all went to check the phones out.
And we were there, I think, the same Sunday Gene Shepard did a live taping at the World's
Fair.
Wow.
And I've heard it.
I've heard it on BAI.
Yeah, Max has probably played that, I'm sure.
Oh, yeah.
Max has played in a couple.
But, you know, you're talking about the old phone booths, right?
Yes.
Well, you got to go to Elizabeth, New Jersey, High Street and Third Avenue.
Spirito's Italian restaurant.
Walk in the front door and look a little up.
And there's a 40s, you know, phone booth in there.
The 40s?
It's like a little house.
Wow.
OK.
All right.
You guys are in the city.
You go to Elizabeth, you'll have the best homemade chicken parm and raviolis you ever
ate.
Well, tell me this.
You got to bring butter.
You got the bread, but you got to bring your own butter.
Got to bring your own butter.
How interesting.
But now when you go into the phone, is there still a phone in there?
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
The phone's still in there.
Yeah.
Does it work?
It's not working.
No, you got to go check it out.
Well, maybe we can help fix it.
Let's get the phone working.
That would be kind of cool.
But we're going to we're going to check this out.
Maybe, maybe not tonight.
I have an important question, though, for you guys.
Go ahead.
I have on my table, I've had it for 37 years, but it's a calm dial, touch tone phone.
And I was wondering, I couldn't make it to the Maker Faire, but could you guys tell me
where I could please get the replacement head replacement headset?
Because where the feet, where the male plug goes into the female head receiver,
you hold it to your ear.
It's broken there.
And the thing you it's horrible.
I've tried glue with it.
Have you looked on eBay?
Have you looked at auction sites like eBay and places where you might find used parts?
Well, that's what I was saying.
Did they have all that stuff at the Maker Faire?
It's not really like a swap me in that sense.
But you can definitely trade notes with collectors and people that do know where,
you know, there might be a pile of stuff that that is of the same model and make.
Well, I think what Kyle suggests is the best solution.
Just go on to eBay, type calm dial into the search bar, and you'll be surprised at the
number of things you see.
But I got to tell you one other thing.
You're damn right about pay phones, because I don't give a damn.
A lot of talent.
You go in like when we go out west to forest fires years ago, the most important thing
you did when you got a break and went to town to call your family and your loved ones.
You had to find a store like I'd always find a Ben Franklin
in Idaho, Montana, California, whatever.
Wow.
And you had to get a roll of quarters because there was no cell phones or nothing.
So you could run to.
It was like lines at the pay phones, right?
But they really should get some pay phones back because it.
But the other thing is when you travel, you should always have a CB radio with you,
because I don't care where you're at.
Somebody's going to hear you and get help to you.
Or ham radios, too, if you're at home.
Certainly.
Well, no, I'm just talking about like if you're out traveling or on the road,
a CB radio is always a plus to have.
Yeah, definitely a good backup for wireless in general.
And yeah, I just would second what you're saying about the criticality of having
communications like that out in the field.
One of the sections that is so popular, as Emmanuel mentioned earlier,
is our pay phone section.
We continue to get a lot of submissions.
Usually the most interesting places tend to be like islands and rural areas,
because it is a lifeline in that sense for those communities.
Not everyone there necessarily has their own sort of line in the house
or a wireless service even.
And it's sort of a community hub for communicating and getting through life,
you know, interacting.
You know, and one place where pay phones still exist, actually, in Manhattan,
by the way, are the federal courts.
I can't believe I forgot this until now.
Really?
Yeah, because you have to hand in your cell phones literally to federal marshals
when you go in there.
So if you need to use the phone in the courthouse without having to go and
retrieve your phone, and if you retrieve your phone, you have to leave immediately,
then you would have to go back in through the metal detector.
This whole process, especially at the Southern District, takes a long time.
There's still pay phones there, and people actually still use them.
There was even this scene during one of the Michael Cohen proceedings,
where it was announced that Sean Hannity was his other client.
When you saw all the reporters sitting in the galley literally get up and rush out
to go and use the pay phones to call in the story that Sean Hannity was Michael Cohen's
other secretive client.
So, yeah, they still exist in federal court.
It's probably the only place in Manhattan where you can find these working pay phones.
So, okay, well, there is the evidence right there.
If they can do it for federal courts, they can do it for individual citizens.
If there's a need for something, they can make it work.
Carla, thank you very much, and thanks for the memories.
Hey, Manuel, Manuel, real quick, real quick about the pay phones, right?
Like in McCall, Idaho, and like in places in Montana?
Like if you got like a back, like a dirt road where there's a bunch of homes,
they'll have a pay phone that the whole neighborhood uses, right?
Okay.
In certain places, because we've seen them.
But the other thing you said about the 911 calls, and I'm a fireman,
you don't know how many times I was the first one in my own vehicle going to the scene
and had to tell people, you know, open the doors, turn the fan on,
because they're smoking in there.
I said, when 911 comes in, they're going to not be worrying about the fire.
They're going to looking to lock your tail up.
So that's a good thing you said that, because once you invite them,
they're welcome to come in.
And like you said, if something's laying around, you're done, right?
Okay, well, that's a good note to end on.
Thanks so much for that call.
And thanks, everybody, for listening.
Write to us, oth at 2600.com.
Let me remind people that the first ever wireless emergency alert party
taking place next Wednesday, starting at 1.30pm at the Commons Cafe downstairs,
388 Atlantic Avenue in Brooklyn.
We'll be awaiting the first ever wireless emergency alert test
that goes to everybody's cell phone next Wednesday afternoon.
For more information, follow us on Twitter, Hacker Radio Show or 2600.
You can also write to us at oth at 2600.com.
And that's going to do it for us tonight.
We will see you next week.
Good night.
I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I