[00:03.740 --> 00:05.840]  Election Day is the first Tuesday in November.
[00:06.100 --> 00:08.620]  You still have time to register if you're a New York resident.
[00:08.860 --> 00:10.400]  The deadline is October 12th.
[00:10.560 --> 00:13.080]  If you're a college student, you can use your campus address.
[00:13.120 --> 00:13.960]  It's easy.
[00:14.120 --> 00:20.820]  To register to vote online, or to make sure you're still registered, just visit www.vote.org.
[00:21.020 --> 00:24.920]  Remember, the deadline is October 12th, and your vote counts.
[00:30.380 --> 00:31.400]  And trust you'll see.
[00:31.660 --> 00:33.780]  Play your part in democracy.
[00:34.940 --> 00:37.020]  It's election time again.
[00:39.480 --> 00:46.660]  And October 12th is this Friday, coming up, so definitely visit vote.org and check out your status and register if you are not registered.
[00:46.900 --> 00:47.840]  It's 8 o'clock.
[00:47.980 --> 00:49.560]  You're listening to WBAI New York.
[00:49.560 --> 00:51.580]  It's time, once again, for Off the Hook.
[00:57.040 --> 01:01.330]  The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[01:02.320 --> 01:04.280]  I cut myself while shaving.
[01:04.800 --> 01:06.830]  Now I can't make a cough.
[01:07.520 --> 01:09.640]  We couldn't get much worse.
[01:12.480 --> 01:15.060]  One dilly bump, but the best is back from worst.
[01:15.720 --> 01:17.600]  I hope that's understood.
[01:17.780 --> 01:18.600]  One dilly bump!
[02:25.420 --> 02:27.400]  And a very good evening to everybody.
[02:27.400 --> 02:29.320]  The program is Off the Hook.
[02:29.440 --> 02:31.600]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you, joined tonight by Rob T.
[02:31.700 --> 02:32.160]  Firefly.
[02:32.320 --> 02:33.080]  Good evening.
[02:33.300 --> 02:33.740]  And Kyle.
[02:34.380 --> 02:34.760]  Hi.
[02:34.760 --> 02:46.360]  It is a fundraising edition of the program, so have your dialing fingers ready or your keypad entry fingers ready, because we have some interesting things, interesting material for you tonight.
[02:47.640 --> 02:54.540]  We are still recovering from last week's emergency alert tests, which were all kinds of fun.
[02:54.620 --> 02:59.660]  We had a little gathering here at the radio station and had a bunch of phones going off at the same time.
[02:59.760 --> 03:02.440]  Seems like a lot of people did not ever get the alert.
[03:02.540 --> 03:03.400]  Rob, did you ever get the alert?
[03:03.400 --> 03:04.760]  I still haven't gotten my alert.
[03:04.980 --> 03:06.480]  Still have not gotten the emergency alert.
[03:06.960 --> 03:08.120]  I'm feeling so left out.
[03:08.280 --> 03:08.600]  Wow.
[03:09.140 --> 03:11.200]  I noticed quite a lot of people did not get it.
[03:11.280 --> 03:15.500]  So I guess they're going to do it again, probably, to make it a little bit better.
[03:15.960 --> 03:22.380]  But, you know, two minutes after that, last Wednesday, two minutes after that, that happened at 2.18 p.m.
[03:22.380 --> 03:27.480]  By the way, we had a really good suggestion as to what 2.18 might have meant.
[03:27.480 --> 03:29.780]  And it could have meant 2018.
[03:31.020 --> 03:34.060]  Although, 0.2.18 would have been probably...
[03:34.060 --> 03:35.460]  Well, actually, no.
[03:35.580 --> 03:37.620]  2018 would be 8.18 p.m.
[03:38.060 --> 03:42.760]  So that would be 8.18 p.m.
[03:42.900 --> 03:43.720]  when we're on the air.
[03:44.040 --> 03:46.960]  That's when they should have done it, if they wanted to emulate the year.
[03:47.160 --> 03:50.420]  2018 would have been a good time to have that happen.
[03:50.460 --> 03:51.420]  In the middle of our show.
[03:51.420 --> 03:54.440]  So, yeah, if they wanted to mess with us, they could have done so.
[03:54.540 --> 03:54.680]  Yeah.
[03:54.820 --> 03:59.620]  But they really, you know, in 24-hour clock, what they aired at 14.18.
[03:59.920 --> 04:09.560]  Anyway, two minutes after that, they had an emergency alert system test throughout the entire country for all radio and television stations.
[04:09.720 --> 04:14.200]  Now, you know, this kind of thing might not interest many people.
[04:14.340 --> 04:15.180]  It probably doesn't.
[04:15.280 --> 04:16.680]  But I like to keep track of it.
[04:16.760 --> 04:19.640]  I like to keep track of what's going on, what the differences are.
[04:19.640 --> 04:25.100]  So the next couple of minutes might be incredibly boring to many people out there, many people in the room probably.
[04:26.040 --> 04:27.680]  I wound up taping.
[04:27.760 --> 04:28.160]  Thank you, Kyle.
[04:28.460 --> 04:37.040]  I wound up taping a whole bunch of TV stations, as many as my DVR could handle, which I think is like 15 or something.
[04:37.440 --> 04:45.360]  And I also taped, and tape obviously is an anachronistic word here, but I taped some cable networks.
[04:45.520 --> 04:46.940]  None of the cable networks carried it.
[04:46.940 --> 04:52.600]  They apparently were not required to air the emergency alert system test.
[04:54.180 --> 04:58.980]  However, every broadcast station did it more or less to some degree.
[04:59.200 --> 05:00.180]  Some did well.
[05:00.180 --> 05:01.240]  Some did poorly.
[05:01.800 --> 05:04.260]  Now, I'm going to play you some audio.
[05:04.260 --> 05:06.640]  Now, I'm not going to play audio of the forbidden tones.
[05:06.640 --> 05:08.480]  You're not allowed to do that, and for good reason.
[05:09.080 --> 05:17.040]  But I am going to play you the audio of the guy that apparently is the guy who reads the announcement.
[05:17.840 --> 05:21.260]  He read the announcement on every single TV station that I could find.
[05:21.580 --> 05:25.700]  I did not record radio, so I'm not sure exactly what went out of radio stations.
[05:25.840 --> 05:28.200]  But apparently, you know, this guy has...
[05:28.200 --> 05:29.360]  He's the official voice.
[05:30.020 --> 05:36.140]  It doesn't sound like he is very practiced at doing this because there's hesitation.
[05:36.140 --> 05:39.620]  And he actually also took some liberties here.
[05:39.760 --> 05:42.720]  And I'll tell you where he took the liberties in just a moment.
[05:42.820 --> 05:48.940]  But this would have been the voice of the emergency alert if you had been watching television last week.
[05:48.940 --> 05:52.640]  This is a test of the National Emergency Alert System.
[05:52.960 --> 06:05.400]  This system was developed by broadcast and cable operators in voluntary cooperation with the Federal Emergency Management Agency, the Federal Communications Commission, and local authorities to keep you informed in the event of an emergency.
[06:05.400 --> 06:12.480]  If this had been an actual emergency, an official message would have followed the tone alert you heard at the start of this message.
[06:12.660 --> 06:18.480]  A similar wireless emergency alert test message has been sent out to all cell phones in the nation.
[06:18.940 --> 06:21.020]  Some cell phones will receive the message.
[06:21.160 --> 06:22.160]  Others will not.
[06:22.420 --> 06:23.900]  No action is required.
[06:24.540 --> 06:25.500]  Okay, there you go.
[06:25.620 --> 06:30.320]  That was the official message that you would have heard on any television or radio station.
[06:30.400 --> 06:35.800]  I'd like to know if people in other parts of the country heard that same voice or if it's changed for different regions.
[06:36.000 --> 06:37.740]  Now, I said he took a couple of liberties.
[06:37.920 --> 06:39.820]  He did, or maybe he just misread.
[06:40.980 --> 06:45.600]  If this had been an actual emergency, an official message would have followed the alert tone.
[06:45.820 --> 06:46.980]  He said tone alert.
[06:47.360 --> 06:48.440]  So there's that.
[06:48.940 --> 06:54.520]  And then he also said a similar wireless emergency alert test message has been sent out to all cell phones.
[06:54.940 --> 07:00.520]  Now, a similar wireless emergency alert test message has been sent to all cell phones, not sent out.
[07:00.740 --> 07:07.400]  Now, I know that because I looked at the little banner message that went across all the television stations, and they all read that verbatim.
[07:07.540 --> 07:09.520]  They all had the exact same phrasing.
[07:09.520 --> 07:25.140]  And the other thing that's interesting, you know, there's a kind of thing that I notice, at the end of that little banner message that appear on the top of TV stations, and the color of their choice, apparently they could vary the speed, they could vary the color,
[07:25.420 --> 07:30.700]  but at the end, the end of the sentence, they put two periods for some reason.
[07:30.840 --> 07:31.780]  No action is required.
[07:32.240 --> 07:32.920]  Two periods.
[07:33.500 --> 07:33.940]  Why?
[07:34.080 --> 07:36.320]  Why did every station have two periods?
[07:36.400 --> 07:37.320]  I'm curious about that.
[07:37.320 --> 07:49.720]  Now, WABC had a white on blue banner and a recording, and at the end of the no action is required, two periods, they put their call letters, WABC slash TV, which is interesting.
[07:49.860 --> 08:00.980]  Usually it's WABC dash TV, but I noticed this was something stations, when they did identify themselves in the banner, they used slashes for some reason, or spaces, or no space, but not a dash.
[08:00.980 --> 08:07.060]  They also changed the initial part of the message.
[08:07.200 --> 08:11.300]  It actually is more to the message on the banner than what the recording states.
[08:11.500 --> 08:12.900]  This sentence precedes it.
[08:13.060 --> 08:26.840]  In all caps, the primary entry point EAS system, and then lowercase, has issued, and then all caps again, a national periodic test, and then back to lowercase, for the following counties or areas, colon, United States.
[08:26.840 --> 08:28.720]  So that means it's a national test.
[08:29.600 --> 08:31.000]  Semicolon, at 2.20 p.m.
[08:31.080 --> 08:32.780]  on October 3rd, 2018.
[08:33.820 --> 08:36.060]  Effective until 2.50 p.m.
[08:36.780 --> 08:37.960]  Message from FEMA.
[08:38.280 --> 08:44.000]  And then it goes into the verbal announcement, and it shows that as well.
[08:44.180 --> 08:49.500]  This is a test, and that's in all caps as well, and the rest of it is simply upper and lowercase.
[08:50.780 --> 08:54.820]  So, WNBC put their call letters at the end of that message.
[08:55.160 --> 08:57.700]  They also changed the opening a little bit.
[08:57.840 --> 09:05.340]  Instead of saying the primary entry point EAS system, they said a primary entry point system has issued a national periodic test for the United States.
[09:05.360 --> 09:07.940]  No big deal, but interesting that they altered it.
[09:08.660 --> 09:10.580]  WNBC had white on dark blue.
[09:10.820 --> 09:15.160]  They also went with the a primary entry wording.
[09:16.880 --> 09:18.440]  WNJU, white on dark blue.
[09:18.600 --> 09:19.720]  Now, they're a Spanish station.
[09:19.720 --> 09:21.860]  What's interesting is the banner was in Spanish.
[09:21.860 --> 09:23.500]  The audio, however, was in English.
[09:24.060 --> 09:29.640]  And that leads me to wonder, do they use English everywhere, even in areas that don't speak English?
[09:29.860 --> 09:31.420]  Is it that same guy's voice everywhere?
[09:32.500 --> 09:33.740]  WNYW, white on green.
[09:34.260 --> 09:37.080]  WWOR, owned by WNYW, white on green as well.
[09:37.220 --> 09:42.380]  Except at the end, it said WWOR slash TV instead of FEMA.
[09:43.440 --> 09:44.600]  WPXN, channel 31.
[09:44.820 --> 09:48.040]  They had a very tiny crawl, white on green at the very top.
[09:48.380 --> 09:51.860]  And they had message from WPXN space TV.
[09:53.120 --> 09:56.280]  Now, four stations failed the test that I was able to see.
[09:56.460 --> 09:59.020]  WCBS, they had a white on gray banner.
[09:59.220 --> 10:02.020]  They displayed it twice, but they had no audio recording.
[10:02.420 --> 10:04.320]  They reduced the audio of their program.
[10:04.500 --> 10:05.320]  That worked.
[10:05.760 --> 10:08.920]  It was reduced midway through the banner.
[10:08.920 --> 10:12.400]  And then it was restored later, but there was no vocal recording.
[10:13.260 --> 10:15.780]  Also, WLNY, channel 55 out in Long Island.
[10:15.920 --> 10:17.080]  They're owned by CBS.
[10:17.080 --> 10:18.880]  They did the exact same thing.
[10:19.740 --> 10:21.600]  WXTV, another Spanish station in New Jersey.
[10:21.800 --> 10:22.520]  Black on green.
[10:23.360 --> 10:25.040]  English, English banner.
[10:25.660 --> 10:26.620]  But no audio.
[10:26.960 --> 10:31.160]  And the interesting thing here is at the end, it said message from WALKFM.
[10:31.400 --> 10:31.880]  No space.
[10:32.680 --> 10:34.820]  WALKFM is a radio station out in Long Island.
[10:34.820 --> 10:36.860]  So that was rather unusual.
[10:36.860 --> 10:43.900]  They must have gotten the alert from that radio station somehow, even though the signal doesn't carry into New Jersey.
[10:44.640 --> 10:46.340]  But they had no audio.
[10:46.440 --> 10:47.200]  They just had silence.
[10:47.440 --> 10:49.600]  And finally, WNET, channel 13.
[10:49.700 --> 10:51.360]  They had the best looking one.
[10:51.480 --> 10:56.020]  They had a full screen message that said emergency alert system complete with a PBS logo and everything.
[10:56.240 --> 10:58.800]  And it said message from WNET instead of FEMA.
[10:59.600 --> 11:01.400]  But the audio started in the middle.
[11:01.660 --> 11:04.220]  And there was a bunch of silence, awkward silence afterwards.
[11:04.580 --> 11:09.320]  So, yeah, you know, it's who wastes time paying attention to this kind of thing?
[11:09.560 --> 11:09.860]  Hackers do.
[11:09.960 --> 11:10.300]  That's who.
[11:10.880 --> 11:12.120]  It may mean absolutely nothing.
[11:12.120 --> 11:15.640]  It may lead to more of an understanding as to how the system is put together.
[11:15.640 --> 11:17.860]  I'm very curious about those two periods at the end of the message.
[11:18.440 --> 11:19.960]  And I'm sorry for wasting everybody's time.
[11:20.740 --> 11:21.720]  No, I enjoyed that.
[11:21.820 --> 11:27.880]  I mean, I'm old enough to remember the old EBS system that regularly happened on TV.
[11:27.880 --> 11:29.120]  And there would be a tone.
[11:29.260 --> 11:32.500]  There would be a full screen image and full, you know, narration.
[11:32.700 --> 11:33.620]  They would interrupt the programming.
[11:33.780 --> 11:34.660]  This is only a test.
[11:36.240 --> 11:38.520]  But, you know, it was an occasion.
[11:38.520 --> 11:42.600]  It wasn't just something that happened alongside whatever programming was going on.
[11:42.780 --> 11:47.020]  Now, when this was going on, did the alert tone happen over the program?
[11:47.660 --> 11:54.660]  Yeah, it basically, they interrupted with the, you know, the fact-sounding tone first.
[11:54.660 --> 11:56.900]  And then the old EBS tone.
[11:57.220 --> 11:59.460]  There's a frequency for it, but they used the same tone.
[11:59.760 --> 12:07.800]  So the EBS test from the 20th century that were after Conorad that we talked about last week, they kept that tone.
[12:07.800 --> 12:09.420]  So that tone follows.
[12:09.680 --> 12:12.780]  And then after that, there's an audio alert of one sort or another.
[12:13.400 --> 12:16.860]  And then they end it with the three little bursts that sound like a fax machine.
[12:17.040 --> 12:22.720]  But so visually, even when the fax-type tone was going on, the programming was still whatever video was playing?
[12:22.720 --> 12:25.480]  Yes, the video remained the same, except on Channel 13.
[12:25.700 --> 12:26.580]  Except 13.
[12:26.660 --> 12:28.180]  Where they interrupted Curious George.
[12:28.480 --> 12:32.480]  And really, it screwed up the whole story because he didn't know how he managed to find...
[12:32.480 --> 12:33.180]  Well, it doesn't matter.
[12:33.280 --> 12:34.040]  I'm not going to get into that now.
[12:34.200 --> 12:34.560]  No spoilers.
[12:34.680 --> 12:35.200]  I haven't seen the episode.
[12:35.200 --> 12:37.020]  Well, there are confused kids everywhere in New York now.
[12:37.160 --> 12:40.860]  But the point is, they had a full-screen thing that said, it looked really cool.
[12:40.940 --> 12:44.160]  Emergency alert, you know, and he really felt like something dramatic was happening.
[12:44.760 --> 12:46.320]  It also must have scared kids to see that.
[12:46.320 --> 12:50.840]  But other than that, all the video was pretty much...
[12:51.460 --> 12:55.080]  I'd probably close captioning would have captured the audio that you were missing.
[12:55.540 --> 12:58.100]  It's probably no more confused kids than normal.
[12:58.300 --> 13:20.680]  But I would venture to say, and I could be completely wrong, but I think this generation of EAS boxes at these stations or whatever kind of hardware device their originating alerts and info is set and programmed and then distributed through, being that it's probably a little bit more like an IP-based,
[13:20.680 --> 13:47.220]  integrated system, it perhaps is that a lot of these stations have received new hardware and basically got it up and running more or less, but haven't quite, you know, run it through several iterations of tests and been excited about modifying and getting further than they have.
[13:47.360 --> 14:00.600]  So if you operate one of those boxes, you know, read the freaking manual and don't be so proud of your default settings, you know, mix it up, customize it a little, go crazy.
[14:00.840 --> 14:09.600]  If you've seen something interesting or something that stands out or something you have questions about concerning this test that took place last week, write to us, OTH at 2600.com.
[14:09.740 --> 14:11.480]  We'd love to hear your observations as well.
[14:11.580 --> 14:15.800]  This is how we learn how these systems work and what their strengths and weaknesses are.
[14:16.040 --> 14:25.740]  I mean, the lack of translation for the Spanish-speaking networks also stands out to me because, as we established last week, I mean, there's no mechanism to translate this for the phone alerts.
[14:25.880 --> 14:28.980]  Everyone's got phones, but they're all speaking the one message.
[14:29.180 --> 14:42.260]  But on stations where the Lingua Franca is something other than English, it's interesting to see that they still give the English audio and one station that you mentioned didn't give a Spanish translation of what was going on.
[14:42.300 --> 14:47.580]  It was crazy because, yeah, I saw the Spanish message going across on the banner and heard the English language.
[14:47.580 --> 14:48.580]  That was bad enough.
[14:48.580 --> 14:55.940]  But then the other Spanish station I monitored, well, I guess they messed up the audio, but I assume the audio would have been English anyway.
[14:56.120 --> 14:59.580]  But then the banner message was in English, and their audience obviously is Spanish.
[14:59.700 --> 15:01.220]  So I don't know how that could have happened.
[15:01.700 --> 15:06.220]  Again, I would again say that this is something they got to work out.
[15:06.340 --> 15:15.600]  And the technology itself is probably more than capable of putting both English and Spanish text as well as English and Spanish recordings.
[15:15.600 --> 15:26.260]  It's just that the individuals tasked with engineering this for whatever station need to be a little bit more excited about producing that and setting it up such that it works that way.
[15:27.040 --> 15:35.460]  Also, we heard those recordings you played from the Cold War era of the announcer telling people what to do because we were being nuked by the enemy.
[15:36.080 --> 15:45.140]  And that was a much more authoritative, I think, comforting sort of voice than the guy who sounded half asleep that you played from this hour.
[15:45.180 --> 15:46.620]  Yeah, that guy... who is that guy?
[15:46.720 --> 15:48.280]  Can someone help me find who that guy is?
[15:48.340 --> 15:50.440]  Because that is not the voice of authority.
[15:50.560 --> 15:53.340]  That's the voice of somebody who got coerced into making a recording.
[15:53.760 --> 16:13.240]  This is something we're familiar with is hackers exploring the telephone system, especially of yesteryear, because a lot of the error messages, whether it was for cellular numbers or landline numbers, would be recorded by engineers and local technicians at the central office.
[16:13.440 --> 16:23.760]  And you'd get this real wide variety, especially if you were navigating the phone system by calling around and doing all kinds of fun with long distance.
[16:23.760 --> 16:36.240]  You'd hear accents, you'd hear all kinds of different recordings and things like that, all somewhat authoritative, sometimes with fans and things going in the background and, you know, not the best polished delivery.
[16:37.400 --> 16:51.660]  But this, being a national system, seems, yeah, they could up their production value just a smidge, especially given the contrast to the Conrad system and his booming authoritative voice.
[16:52.600 --> 17:02.000]  You have reached the Seldon DMS with codes 732, 736, 696, 698, and 451.
[17:02.920 --> 17:04.380]  That's the kind of thing you were talking about?
[17:05.200 --> 17:08.540]  That's your lineman right there giving out of the exchanges of the area.
[17:08.640 --> 17:11.040]  That guy has another half a bologna sandwich to finish.
[17:11.620 --> 17:17.660]  And, you know, he's going to be done with that recording just as soon as he can go get another cup of coffee.
[17:18.240 --> 17:25.200]  Yeah, had he prepped for that, had he, you know, spent the night before getting his vocal cords, this could have been something classic.
[17:25.380 --> 17:28.940]  But it sounds like, you know, they, hey, Paul, you know, sit down over here and say this.
[17:29.060 --> 17:35.660]  He had to put it off three weeks, actually, since that bout of laryngitis got him, but he got around to it.
[17:35.740 --> 17:40.880]  By the way, in New York, you can get many of those recordings still by dialing 9901 after your exchange.
[17:40.880 --> 17:49.600]  So, you know, I don't know if they still make them, and I don't know if they do it outside of New York, but it's always great fun to find out what exchanges are local to your area.
[17:49.940 --> 18:00.400]  Not that that really means anything to many people, but those little buildings called central offices that have telephone exchanges in them, they have certain exchanges that are in those buildings, and that's what those recordings are telling you.
[18:01.280 --> 18:08.820]  I kind of like the old cellular ones, like, the cellular subscriber you've called is unavailable.
[18:09.060 --> 18:09.400]  Oh, that guy.
[18:09.400 --> 18:12.840]  He had a message number, you know, and they'd have, like, all the codes and stuff afterwards.
[18:13.040 --> 18:16.880]  But he was very, like, authoritative and, you know, had that very...
[18:16.880 --> 18:18.520]  He sounds like a 1970s DJ.
[18:19.000 --> 18:20.760]  Very... yeah, yeah, you're right, it is.
[18:20.780 --> 18:25.400]  It's a little bit more like Top 40, kind of like Casey Casey, a little bit like that, you know, the...
[18:26.220 --> 18:26.860]  Yeah, absolutely.
[18:27.120 --> 18:27.440]  Countdown.
[18:28.120 --> 18:39.340]  And I've mentioned this site on the show before, but if you go to thisisarecording.com, there's a wonderful collection of historical telephone company recordings from all over the place, different telcos, different areas, and you can hear what they all sound,
[18:39.400 --> 18:41.440]  like, and it's a rabbit hole to go down.
[18:41.860 --> 18:43.320]  It's important to record these things.
[18:43.560 --> 18:52.660]  You know, I mentioned DVRs, and just to finish this extended subject, I discovered something really interesting about DVRs this week when I was doing something else.
[18:52.680 --> 18:57.340]  I saw a commercial, and I called Kyle into the room and said, Kyle, you have to see this commercial.
[18:57.520 --> 18:58.720]  It's just... it's insane.
[18:58.820 --> 18:59.620]  It was a local commercial.
[19:00.000 --> 19:01.300]  I could get into what the details were.
[19:01.300 --> 19:04.880]  And I played it back, and it wasn't there.
[19:05.020 --> 19:06.000]  And I was going crazy.
[19:06.160 --> 19:07.060]  No, I just saw it.
[19:07.160 --> 19:11.100]  And, you know, the commercial surrounding it was there, but not the one that was...
[19:11.100 --> 19:12.460]  How did it disappear?
[19:12.460 --> 19:13.340]  What's going on here?
[19:13.460 --> 19:14.280]  Turns out...
[19:14.280 --> 19:24.080]  Turns out that DVRs that you have through your local cable company, for instance, they can replace commercials on your recordings.
[19:24.240 --> 19:29.780]  So that you can see something live on television, but that's not what you actually wind up recording.
[19:30.040 --> 19:33.640]  Now, the program, supposedly, is going to be there, but the commercials can change.
[19:33.740 --> 19:41.860]  And they can do this years down the road, that you can record something, and then you'll find that the advertisements that are played back...
[19:41.860 --> 19:44.760]  When you play back that recording from years ago, they're current advertisements.
[19:44.920 --> 19:46.160]  They can do that.
[19:46.240 --> 19:47.440]  And they have been doing that.
[19:47.520 --> 19:49.080]  And it's just so Orwellian.
[19:49.080 --> 19:50.540]  And they can change things.
[19:50.700 --> 19:54.700]  It's not like recording on a VCR, where you're actually recording what you are seeing.
[19:55.240 --> 20:02.200]  It's recording something that they are giving you access to, and they can take that access away, and they can change it.
[20:02.320 --> 20:08.440]  And if they decide that, you know what, we don't want anybody to see this program anymore, they can make that program go away.
[20:08.440 --> 20:14.280]  So that, to me, is very disturbing, especially the fact that people don't know about this as a rule.
[20:15.200 --> 20:20.940]  We need a way that we can actually record things and keep them ourselves like we used to.
[20:21.200 --> 20:33.460]  Yeah, this is actually really interesting, considering we were talking about it in the context of TiVo and some of these third-party DVR, and even those are packaged and integrated with the provider.
[20:33.460 --> 20:51.740]  And it is the very nature of a content delivery network like these coax and other broadband service providers have, in that they are managing the storage and also the distribution of that content that you record with your DVR.
[20:51.740 --> 20:55.940]  You are thinking, yes, of course, I have all the control here with my recordings.
[20:56.160 --> 21:07.180]  But in fact, a lot of that content is tagged in very distinct ways and in ways that the user interface doesn't really share with you.
[21:07.360 --> 21:16.560]  You can't tell if this commercial has been tagged or will be susceptible to removal and replacement at the whim of the provider.
[21:16.560 --> 21:27.020]  Yeah, it's really disturbing to me because, you know, I come from a time, which really isn't that long ago, but a time when, you know, when things are written, that's how they are.
[21:27.220 --> 21:36.760]  And now we live in a time where if you say something, you can change it in the future if you don't like what you said on a comment board or something like that.
[21:38.600 --> 21:40.240]  DVRs can change the content.
[21:40.860 --> 21:46.100]  Who knows what else out there can modify what originally was put forth.
[21:46.200 --> 21:51.420]  Now, think about this in terms of news and propaganda and ways that people can be controlled that way.
[21:51.540 --> 21:52.400]  Or the constitution.
[21:52.880 --> 21:55.960]  Well, yeah, that could be changed really easily, I guess.
[21:56.300 --> 21:58.020]  A lot of that inconvenient stuff could be taken out.
[21:58.220 --> 22:00.760]  But no, it's disturbing.
[22:01.540 --> 22:05.880]  And it's especially disturbing when you realize that this is not something that's being shared.
[22:05.880 --> 22:09.980]  And just in the realm of TV programming, I remember seeing a demonstration years ago.
[22:10.060 --> 22:13.500]  And I'm not sure how actually how much this was put into use.
[22:13.620 --> 22:22.880]  But I remember seeing demonstrations of replacing the product placement in reruns of old shows because someone else paid for them to have a different brand of cereal on the shelf or something during a scene.
[22:23.020 --> 22:27.780]  And so you're actually watching different visual content than you were the first time with no sort of warnings or anything.
[22:27.780 --> 22:32.900]  Can you imagine like a Seinfeld set or something where all the cereal boxes are just green?
[22:33.360 --> 22:36.760]  Because they can swap out like the shape is there.
[22:36.940 --> 22:37.360]  That's fine.
[22:37.500 --> 22:38.800]  But it's just a green screen.
[22:39.080 --> 22:40.720]  So, Kyle, we've talked about this.
[22:40.840 --> 22:43.380]  You've just given some producer an idea and they're going to do it.
[22:43.440 --> 22:43.760]  That's it.
[22:43.860 --> 22:46.980]  Like you have your whole sitcom set and everything that's branded.
[22:47.020 --> 22:48.520]  You just make green.
[22:48.740 --> 22:50.360]  So you can make it green screens everywhere.
[22:50.840 --> 22:52.120]  And they're for sale.
[22:52.320 --> 22:52.680]  Or blue.
[22:52.780 --> 22:54.060]  They do that at baseball games.
[22:54.180 --> 22:55.300]  Don't they change the advertisement?
[22:55.300 --> 22:57.420]  People in the stadium don't see it, but people on TV do.
[22:57.700 --> 22:58.100]  Maybe.
[22:58.320 --> 22:59.280]  They've been doing that for years.
[22:59.420 --> 23:00.700]  I don't really watch baseball.
[23:00.780 --> 23:02.500]  Well, this might be why.
[23:02.820 --> 23:13.280]  But the thing is, you know, when you don't have control of the technology yourself, that means that you don't have control of how it is used, how things are displayed.
[23:13.360 --> 23:15.960]  They can be changed and there's nothing you can do about it.
[23:16.100 --> 23:17.600]  Now, we had this Facebook hack.
[23:17.700 --> 23:18.940]  We didn't get to talk about it last week.
[23:18.940 --> 23:32.160]  But everybody was freaking out over the fact that somebody got into Facebook accounts and were able to access the info that was in, I think, 50 million accounts.
[23:32.820 --> 23:37.880]  And, you know, when this story came out, I was asking myself, I don't understand what the big deal is.
[23:37.980 --> 23:39.260]  Why do people care?
[23:39.400 --> 23:40.000]  It's Facebook.
[23:41.060 --> 23:44.220]  You put your information on there so people can see it.
[23:44.220 --> 23:49.700]  So if somebody gets in there and gets your information and sees it, isn't that sort of what you wanted to do in the first place?
[23:49.760 --> 23:50.180]  Yeah, I know.
[23:50.280 --> 23:53.240]  You want your friends to see it, but okay, so you just have more friends seeing it now.
[23:54.300 --> 24:03.220]  But it gets bigger than that because people really trust Facebook with all their personal information and they expect it to be kept safe and away from others.
[24:03.400 --> 24:05.860]  And that's just such an unrealistic expectation.
[24:06.640 --> 24:10.020]  And it's, you know, it's sad to see people fall for it, but it's not surprising.
[24:12.500 --> 24:14.380]  Well, you know what we can do about it.
[24:14.460 --> 24:18.520]  We can move to a social network with finer controls over what you share and everything.
[24:18.580 --> 24:19.800]  Let's all go to Google Plus instead.
[24:20.820 --> 24:21.100]  Oh, yeah.
[24:21.180 --> 24:22.640]  Another success story there.
[24:23.500 --> 24:24.800]  You want to tell us what happened to Google Plus?
[24:25.220 --> 24:27.940]  They're finally calling it quits?
[24:29.500 --> 24:36.600]  It was interesting because they're calling it quits in the sort of aftermath of what happened with Facebook.
[24:36.600 --> 24:46.820]  But it's kind of buried in the stories about it that it happened because they found that information on their users that shouldn't have been available, had been available for a great deal of time.
[24:47.020 --> 24:50.480]  And they chose not to tell the world because that would make them look bad.
[24:50.600 --> 24:53.420]  And they didn't want to go down the Facebook road or something.
[24:53.600 --> 24:53.980]  Who wants that?
[24:54.060 --> 25:00.880]  I mean, there was also the fact that pretty much no one used Google Plus, no matter how much they were forced to, like, say, to have a YouTube account or things like that.
[25:00.880 --> 25:05.780]  But, yeah, it's being sunsetted now, as they say in the business.
[25:06.400 --> 25:06.840]  Wow.
[25:07.100 --> 25:07.320]  Okay.
[25:07.480 --> 25:09.660]  Well, you know, as we mentioned, this is a fundraising show.
[25:09.720 --> 25:13.960]  And we have many things that we have been working on.
[25:14.080 --> 25:20.400]  But there are a couple of things tonight that we're offering that I think will be of great interest to our listeners.
[25:20.640 --> 25:28.060]  As you know, we had a conference in July called The Circle of Hope and had so many good talks, so many amazing talks.
[25:28.060 --> 25:33.640]  And, as is our tradition, we are making those talks available in a variety of formats.
[25:33.820 --> 25:37.120]  Right now, we are finalizing DVDs.
[25:37.180 --> 25:45.020]  And by that, I mean, we're making the DVDs look as perfect as they can possibly look, as far as sound, as far as presentation.
[25:46.820 --> 25:48.340]  So, it takes time.
[25:48.600 --> 25:50.080]  It takes quite a bit of time.
[25:50.080 --> 25:52.600]  Well, a lot of people work really hard to produce the show.
[25:52.640 --> 26:04.720]  And we take great pride in giving it a proper archive so that when we look back, it's as polished and organized and things, you know, are spelled and accurate and all that, you know.
[26:04.900 --> 26:05.540]  Exactly, yeah.
[26:05.720 --> 26:19.260]  That detail that if you just batched it or had, you know, some third party handle it for you, it invariably goes wrong or you have some little error that bugs you.
[26:19.260 --> 26:22.680]  So, there may be things yet, but this is our best approximation.
[26:22.740 --> 26:27.140]  And we're really proud of the effort we put into doing a proper archive.
[26:27.420 --> 26:28.100]  Exactly, yes.
[26:28.500 --> 26:36.580]  It's something you can grab copies right away, but they're not going to be... they'll be imperfect.
[26:36.740 --> 26:40.980]  I mean, nothing is ever perfect, but there will be problems with them that do not exist here.
[26:41.180 --> 26:42.920]  And it takes time to resolve those problems.
[26:43.020 --> 26:45.000]  That's why it's now October and we're still working on it.
[26:45.000 --> 26:55.160]  However, the MP4s have been out for some time and those have also required some work to get into a presentable format.
[26:55.880 --> 27:03.260]  So, now what we have tonight, what we're offering are two possible packages for people interested in the talks at Circle of Hope.
[27:03.340 --> 27:04.500]  The Circle of Hope full set.
[27:04.600 --> 27:07.680]  We have them in either flash drive format or DVD format.
[27:07.680 --> 27:22.080]  If you give a call to 516-620-3602 and pledge $100, you will get not one, but two flash drives filled with all of the talks.
[27:22.080 --> 27:26.520]  Well, I guess about a hundred talks at the help conference this past July.
[27:27.020 --> 27:29.640]  And they will be in MP4 format.
[27:29.640 --> 27:31.360]  They'll play on any computer.
[27:31.360 --> 27:32.700]  They'll play on a TV set.
[27:32.820 --> 27:33.680]  They're in full HD.
[27:33.680 --> 27:35.560]  They're designed to be copied and spread.
[27:37.000 --> 27:42.960]  They're basically easy to navigate because we include HTML files with that.
[27:43.540 --> 27:46.960]  That's for a pledge of $100 to 516-620-3602.
[27:47.560 --> 27:54.840]  However, if you prefer the DVDs, and some people still prefer DVDs, and it's something that can't be erased, obviously.
[27:55.600 --> 27:56.940]  It's different technology.
[27:57.320 --> 28:02.040]  For a pledge of $200, you will get around 100 DVDs in the mail.
[28:02.280 --> 28:02.620]  Yeah.
[28:03.080 --> 28:06.760]  With the same talks and the same presentations.
[28:07.180 --> 28:10.940]  That's all for a call to 516-620-3602.
[28:10.940 --> 28:14.360]  Now, what we're going to do is we're going to play an excerpt from one of the talks.
[28:14.680 --> 28:15.380]  Just one.
[28:15.560 --> 28:16.560]  We have so many.
[28:16.760 --> 28:19.680]  We have three tracks going for three full days.
[28:20.360 --> 28:24.780]  But this is a talk about electronic voting.
[28:25.160 --> 28:28.260]  It's called It Takes a Village to Hack a Voting System.
[28:28.440 --> 28:34.460]  And it's presented by our friend Matt Blaze, as well as Harry Hurstie and Margaret Malkapine.
[28:35.560 --> 28:37.240]  Basically, giving a summation here.
[28:37.240 --> 28:40.620]  Our modern electronic voting systems are notoriously vulnerable to attack.
[28:40.620 --> 28:47.680]  And the 2016 election was perhaps the first time we saw evidence of state actors attempting to compromise local election system infrastructure.
[28:48.280 --> 28:51.440]  But how insecure are the actual voting systems we use?
[28:51.540 --> 28:55.760]  And how can the average hacker get access to these systems to find out firsthand?
[28:55.760 --> 29:01.920]  So, this is an excerpt from that talk, which took place at the Circle of Hope conference.
[29:02.160 --> 29:10.660]  And it's just one of around 100 talks that you can get for a pledge of either $100 or $200 to 516-620-3602.
[29:10.660 --> 29:13.660]  You can also go to give2wbai.org.
[29:14.180 --> 29:19.980]  Look for the Circle of Hope full set in either DVD format or flash drive format.
[29:20.480 --> 29:25.100]  And you will soon be able to see every single talk that was presented.
[29:25.260 --> 29:26.480]  Here's an excerpt from one of them.
[29:26.480 --> 29:43.060]  There has been a long history of fraud, and it's mostly been people trying to get themselves or their favorite candidate elected or prevent somebody that they think is bad from winning, sometimes with money changing hands and so on.
[29:43.220 --> 30:05.060]  But we have a new element of that threat model that hasn't really historically come into play in the U.S., which is state actors, other countries, intelligence services, like, you know, countries rhyming with MUSHA, who might want to disrupt an election.
[30:05.500 --> 30:10.760]  And an interesting thing about a state actor is they have both more resources.
[30:10.860 --> 30:12.720]  They're big and well-funded.
[30:12.940 --> 30:18.020]  They're willing to commit crimes in, you know, the country they're operating in.
[30:18.020 --> 30:41.120]  And they actually have an easier job because they may get what they want, not necessarily by picking the winner, but merely by disrupting the electoral process and reducing confidence in the public's outcome and harming the legitimacy of the elected government.
[30:41.120 --> 30:46.020]  So, in other words, denial of service attacks against election are part of the threat model.
[30:46.260 --> 30:48.200]  Denial of service is tough.
[30:48.780 --> 30:51.460]  And elections are tough already, even without that.
[30:51.660 --> 30:55.560]  So, this is a really, really tough problem.
[30:55.940 --> 30:59.620]  Okay, voting in the U.S., voting is highly decentralized.
[31:00.340 --> 31:06.760]  The federal government says remarkably little about how elections are conducted.
[31:06.760 --> 31:14.220]  In fact, if you look in this handy document that I just happened to have right here, I would say I have it in my breast pocket, but I'm wearing a T-shirt.
[31:15.240 --> 31:20.440]  The Constitution is where most of the federal government guidance on elections are.
[31:20.560 --> 31:25.020]  And it basically says things like, not a whole lot.
[31:25.460 --> 31:34.600]  The times, places, and manners of holding elections for senators and representatives shall be prescribed in each state by the legislatures thereof.
[31:35.620 --> 31:36.360]  That's it.
[31:36.900 --> 31:46.140]  So, in other words, states are in the Constitution given the latitude to figure out how to conduct elections there.
[31:46.280 --> 31:50.660]  And this is in Article I and Article II, the presidential part of the Constitution.
[31:50.660 --> 31:56.520]  It basically says the manner of selecting electors for the Electoral College will be, you know, same language.
[31:57.040 --> 31:58.720]  So, there's not a lot here.
[31:58.720 --> 32:06.640]  The 14th Amendment also says something about the rights of people in any state, you know, get federal rights.
[32:06.640 --> 32:10.900]  And that's where the authority to have things like the Voting Rights Act come into play.
[32:11.040 --> 32:15.400]  But mostly, we're talking about states coming up with the rules.
[32:15.640 --> 32:22.360]  There are 50 states, which means there are 50 sets of rules plus possessions in the District of Columbia.
[32:22.360 --> 32:28.720]  So, we have a large number of slightly different sets of rules.
[32:29.080 --> 32:36.840]  And elections are, in fact, actually operated in almost every state by individual counties.
[32:36.840 --> 32:40.640]  And there are 3,000 counties in the U.S., roughly.
[32:40.920 --> 32:57.520]  So, essentially what this means is there are, you know, somewhere between 3,000 and 4,000 different, slightly different sets of procedures, slightly different sets of rules, slightly different equipment, slightly different everything for conducting elections.
[32:57.520 --> 33:05.280]  So, when you say, well, all we have to do to fix voting is this, who is the we you're talking about?
[33:05.600 --> 33:09.880]  Because it's a lot of different entities in the country.
[33:10.540 --> 33:12.320]  Here's a quick history question.
[33:12.460 --> 33:13.960]  Does anybody recognize this picture?
[33:14.220 --> 33:14.980]  What's this from?
[33:15.240 --> 33:17.720]  The Florida recount.
[33:17.940 --> 33:18.600]  And what year was that?
[33:18.680 --> 33:20.200]  That was like 1970, right?
[33:21.140 --> 33:22.740]  Seems like so long ago.
[33:22.920 --> 33:24.340]  The 2000 election.
[33:24.340 --> 33:29.200]  This was, this was the most famous picture, probably, from the Florida recount.
[33:29.560 --> 33:34.440]  And what we saw, this picture has had an interesting thing happen with it.
[33:34.520 --> 33:40.660]  Which is that it has inverted its meaning in the 18 years since it was taken.
[33:41.420 --> 33:43.440]  17 and a half years since it was taken.
[33:43.780 --> 33:49.720]  This was originally a picture to show how unbelievably laughably stupid the Florida people were.
[33:49.720 --> 33:53.160]  That they were using this old fashioned punch card system.
[33:53.680 --> 34:00.060]  That you would have to hold up to the light to see where a punch card was.
[34:00.240 --> 34:03.740]  And look at this antiquated technology coming back from the 1950s.
[34:04.440 --> 34:10.100]  And today, this picture is almost always used to illustrate, look at the strength of the system.
[34:10.240 --> 34:14.580]  If you're not sure what the outcome was, you can take the punch cards and hold them up to the light.
[34:14.580 --> 34:17.720]  And try to figure out what the actual voter originally intended to do.
[34:17.900 --> 34:19.900]  Try to do that with a memory card.
[34:21.020 --> 34:25.560]  You know, so this, this was a recount of an election.
[34:25.760 --> 34:29.980]  An audit of the election to try to determine the voter's original intent.
[34:31.760 --> 34:34.160]  A quick story about this technology.
[34:34.500 --> 34:39.840]  This is a Florida, actually this one is from Wisconsin, but it was the same technology used in Florida.
[34:39.840 --> 34:42.380]  The Florida voting, a punch card voting machine.
[34:43.220 --> 34:49.040]  And essentially what you would do is take that little stylus, put a card through the top of the machine.
[34:49.420 --> 34:55.180]  Take the little stylus and punch on each page of the ballot a little hole through the card.
[34:55.460 --> 34:59.340]  And the card was actually a perforated punch card.
[34:59.340 --> 35:08.300]  Sort of like an IBM punch card machine card, but a little different because it had these perforated rectangular holes in it.
[35:08.440 --> 35:14.600]  That would fall underneath the holes in the machine that you would push the stylus through.
[35:15.260 --> 35:25.820]  And the little pieces of rectangle, called CHADS, a word we all learned in 2000, would be pushed to the back of the machine.
[35:26.500 --> 35:29.040]  And so, an interesting thing happened.
[35:29.600 --> 35:31.840]  This was a completely mechanical system.
[35:32.020 --> 35:34.580]  The voting machines would have to be plugged in.
[35:35.060 --> 35:40.740]  But the only reason they had to be plugged in because there was a little light on them so the voter could see what was going on.
[35:40.860 --> 35:43.200]  Otherwise, they were completely mechanical devices.
[35:43.520 --> 35:47.520]  This was a completely mechanical device with a buffer overflow in it.
[35:48.220 --> 35:49.160]  What happened?
[35:49.500 --> 35:59.120]  Well, because of conservation of matter, a physical law, the little CHADS of paper, when you vote for somebody, go somewhere.
[35:59.280 --> 35:59.880]  Where do they go?
[36:00.000 --> 36:04.040]  Well, they go right behind where they were because you're pushing them through with a little stylus.
[36:04.940 --> 36:05.780]  What happens?
[36:05.900 --> 36:10.500]  Well, in most elections, about 100 people would vote on any voting machine in any given day.
[36:10.500 --> 36:14.280]  In the 2000 election in Florida, there was enormous turnout.
[36:15.440 --> 36:22.260]  And so, in some places, 300 people would vote at a place where normally the maximum was like 125 or so.
[36:22.500 --> 36:37.460]  And so, what happened was that these pieces of cardboard, as they get punched out for the more popular candidate, would back up in the machine behind the little plate where you'd put it in.
[36:37.460 --> 36:47.020]  And so, the more popular candidate late in the day, it'd be really easy early in the day, late in the day, the more popular candidate would get harder to vote for.
[36:47.380 --> 36:53.480]  Because you wouldn't be able to necessarily get the stylus all the way through.
[36:55.120 --> 37:02.560]  And so, what would happen is, if you take a look in the upper right, there is a fully punched hole.
[37:02.560 --> 37:15.000]  But down toward the middle, you'll see there was one that's just dimpled, because the senior citizen in Florida wasn't quite able to muster the strength to push through behind all of those backed up pieces of Chad.
[37:15.440 --> 37:18.200]  An actual buffer overflow attack in this.
[37:18.360 --> 37:20.580]  The other possibility was there might be a little flap.
[37:20.580 --> 37:22.280]  You might not punch it out completely.
[37:22.500 --> 37:24.140]  Called a hanging Chad.
[37:24.320 --> 37:25.540]  That was a dimpled Chad before.
[37:25.860 --> 37:26.900]  This is a hanging Chad.
[37:27.160 --> 37:31.320]  Terminology that was not as widely known prior to the 2000 election.
[37:31.320 --> 37:32.420]  So, what happened?
[37:32.560 --> 37:34.500]  Well, we got a president because...
[37:34.500 --> 37:36.080]  Okay, we're gonna have to stop this here.
[37:36.080 --> 37:36.500]  I'm sorry.
[37:36.680 --> 37:38.280]  I could listen to that forever.
[37:38.820 --> 37:39.660]  It's fascinating.
[37:39.660 --> 37:41.580]  And it's even more fascinating when you can see it.
[37:41.800 --> 37:46.080]  Because then you know what he's talking about as far as pointing out pictures.
[37:46.220 --> 37:53.120]  That is one of about 100 talks that you will get for a pledge of $100 for a couple of flash drives.
[37:53.180 --> 37:57.420]  Because it's so big now, it doesn't fit on a single flash drive.
[37:57.420 --> 37:58.280]  We need two.
[37:59.320 --> 38:01.440]  516-620-3602.
[38:01.620 --> 38:05.200]  Ask for the Circle of Hope full set flash drive.
[38:05.200 --> 38:09.420]  If you want DVDs, a pledge of $200 will get you 100 DVDs.
[38:09.460 --> 38:10.640]  I think it's 100 plus.
[38:10.820 --> 38:12.600]  And you'll see the same talks.
[38:12.940 --> 38:15.660]  516-620-3602.
[38:15.660 --> 38:21.340]  These are all the talks from the Circle of Hope conference, which took place in July here in New York City.
[38:22.340 --> 38:23.300]  Completely unedited.
[38:23.660 --> 38:30.140]  Presented exactly the way everything transpired and quite a bit of history unfolded at this year's hope.
[38:30.500 --> 38:33.340]  So I think this is a great premium.
[38:33.480 --> 38:36.520]  Kyle and I have been working on the videos for a couple of months now.
[38:36.520 --> 38:44.300]  And I think the biggest impediment to us finishing is how fascinating the talks are because we start, you know, looking at them to test them out.
[38:44.300 --> 38:46.380]  And we just don't want to stop.
[38:46.520 --> 38:50.380]  We have to keep watching it to make sure every syllable lines up and everything looks perfect.
[38:50.540 --> 38:52.740]  But, boy, those talks are interesting.
[38:52.740 --> 38:56.520]  Yeah, and please, we would love your support.
[38:56.660 --> 39:00.240]  516-620-3602.
[39:00.500 --> 39:05.880]  Also online, give to WBAI.org.
[39:06.000 --> 39:09.760]  That's give the numeral to WBAI.org.
[39:09.880 --> 39:13.100]  You can also type TO, the word to.
[39:13.740 --> 39:17.300]  And we're also available via SMS.
[39:17.300 --> 39:18.020]  Yes, yeah.
[39:18.280 --> 39:25.340]  The letters WBAI could be sent via short code to the number 41444.
[39:25.740 --> 39:31.820]  And that basically replies with a link and more information all about donating online.
[39:32.100 --> 39:44.040]  And what we really want to impart is that this is a labor of love and something we take very seriously, capturing the event and bringing it back and getting it to the world.
[39:44.040 --> 39:55.900]  And this is a premium, a thank you, something we're offering because you're a great listener, because you support Off The Hook and everything here at WBAI.
[39:56.220 --> 39:58.880]  And that's the message here.
[39:58.980 --> 40:00.500]  The important thing is the station.
[40:00.840 --> 40:05.560]  And, you know, every bit of this is something that we want you to buy.
[40:05.560 --> 40:08.040]  We want you to pledge for.
[40:08.260 --> 40:12.420]  We want you to otherwise obtain and share widely.
[40:12.720 --> 40:15.240]  This information needs to get out.
[40:15.320 --> 40:16.880]  This needs to be part of the conversation.
[40:17.100 --> 40:20.700]  And whatever method you see fit, we want to support you in that.
[40:20.700 --> 40:27.740]  And today, it really is about raising funds for the station, getting some of these upgrades and capital improvements going.
[40:27.780 --> 40:36.380]  And just sending the message that this content matters, this station matters, and you like radio.
[40:36.660 --> 40:37.980]  And that's why we're here.
[40:38.080 --> 40:44.200]  We love coming every week and doing our very best to inform the audience and put ideas out there.
[40:44.200 --> 40:53.560]  And, of course, you get to call, you get to write us, and we can otherwise share your opinions and give you the opportunity to broadcast a little bit as well.
[40:53.700 --> 40:58.180]  Yeah, this is one of our strengths with the HOPE conferences is the archiving.
[40:58.200 --> 41:03.980]  Because we have endeavored to save everything in as good a format as it can possibly be saved in.
[41:03.980 --> 41:14.980]  And just have it as kind of a time capsule of how technology has changed, the various social events taking place in whatever year the particular conference is happening.
[41:15.120 --> 41:17.320]  And the Circle of Hope is no exception to that.
[41:17.480 --> 41:21.920]  With help from our friends at Internet Society, it looks better than ever.
[41:22.180 --> 41:26.420]  I mean, the talks, this is something I didn't even know was going to happen.
[41:26.440 --> 41:27.220]  They have captions.
[41:27.920 --> 41:29.480]  You can see who's speaking.
[41:29.480 --> 41:33.280]  And it's just, it looks so good, so incredible.
[41:33.480 --> 41:35.500]  And it sounds really amazing as well.
[41:35.640 --> 41:38.780]  This is a great way to support the station, to see our hard work.
[41:38.900 --> 41:43.080]  And, you know, every bit of that, it reaffirms what we're doing.
[41:43.120 --> 41:50.620]  And we will, we're committed to continuing to capture this stuff and come back with even better and even more content in the future.
[41:51.120 --> 41:52.940]  And your calls are a big part of that.
[41:52.940 --> 42:01.400]  And even if you're, maybe, maybe this isn't your thing, this whole, you know, videos from hacker conferences thing, or maybe you can't donate that much just now.
[42:01.520 --> 42:08.680]  But I should point out that anything that you can, that you can spare that you wish to donate is totally appreciated and is important.
[42:08.680 --> 42:22.980]  And if you would like to call 516-620-3602, go to give2wbai.org or send the letters WBAI to short code 41444 and donate any sort of amounts that you feel comfortable donating.
[42:23.940 --> 42:25.080]  That, that helps too.
[42:25.240 --> 42:28.460]  That really, that really goes a long way toward helping us continue to do what we do.
[42:28.620 --> 42:38.560]  And also, if you'd like to be a BAI buddy, that is our program where you could sort of subscribe to us and give a small amount on a, on a regular basis, a monthly basis.
[42:38.560 --> 42:39.880]  You decide how much that is.
[42:40.180 --> 42:44.200]  And then you, then it just happens without you having to redo it every time.
[42:44.200 --> 42:49.080]  And you're a continuing supporter of the station, which is something that's so important to keeping us going here.
[42:49.400 --> 42:56.640]  Give to wbai.org, 516-620-3602 or text WBAI to 41444.
[42:56.920 --> 43:09.380]  If you want the premiums, we suggest calling the phone number 516-620-3602 or going to the website give2wbai.org and asking for or looking for the Circle of Hope full set premiums.
[43:09.380 --> 43:12.220]  One is DVDs, one is flash drives.
[43:12.940 --> 43:22.100]  And yeah, the BAI buddy program is something that's amazing because you can, you can take a small amount and it turns into a big amount because over time it adds up.
[43:22.220 --> 43:28.160]  And you know, it, it benefits the radio station without causing too much pain for the person who's making the donation.
[43:28.920 --> 43:38.880]  And it's, it's, you know, a great way to, to voice your support and know that you're playing a part in keeping this going because this is a whole essential part of the entire process.
[43:38.880 --> 43:44.240]  We have all kinds of dialogues, uh, that have been taking place since, um, we started the radio show.
[43:44.300 --> 43:50.240]  In fact, this, this, Rob is our, um, was it 30th or what, what, what anniversary are we at?
[43:50.480 --> 43:59.460]  We are at 30 years, uh, since October 7th, 1988, when, uh, a certain little show, uh, made its debut onto the airwaves called off the hook.
[43:59.620 --> 43:59.900]  Wow.
[44:00.140 --> 44:02.180]  Is someone actually bringing in a cake with candles?
[44:03.180 --> 44:03.580]  No.
[44:03.780 --> 44:04.820]  Oh, who's that for then?
[44:05.640 --> 44:06.980]  Oh, they're doing another thing down the hall.
[44:06.980 --> 44:07.220]  Okay.
[44:07.360 --> 44:08.200]  You know, nevermind us.
[44:08.200 --> 44:11.800]  No, we've just been here for 30 years talking about hacking.
[44:11.980 --> 44:12.600]  That's fine.
[44:12.800 --> 44:13.660]  Who else has been doing that?
[44:14.020 --> 44:15.460]  October 7th, 1988.
[44:15.980 --> 44:17.080]  That was our first show.
[44:17.320 --> 44:20.020]  Go, go on the internet because as we said, we archive everything.
[44:20.020 --> 44:20.700]  It's all there.
[44:20.800 --> 44:21.360]  It's all there.
[44:21.420 --> 44:24.640]  Go to www.2600.com slash off the hook.
[44:24.780 --> 44:30.080]  You can listen to every damn show we've ever done except for the, the two that got stolen out of my car one day.
[44:30.080 --> 44:32.980]  I just want to add with the, the BAI buddy, um, program.
[44:33.300 --> 44:34.360]  It's, it's really neat.
[44:34.440 --> 44:35.640]  And we've seen other places.
[44:35.640 --> 44:37.320]  We know this, this can work.
[44:37.500 --> 44:53.820]  Um, and if you're not a fan of on air pledge, uh, uh, uh, events like this, you know, if you become a BAI buddy and we get those numbers to a consistent and a reliable place, not that they aren't, but the more people that participate in that, the, the more likely are,
[44:54.020 --> 44:57.560]  uh, we are, we are, we are able to, um, get away with not having as many.
[44:57.560 --> 45:02.460]  Or maybe, uh, maybe there'll be a more brief period and, and on and on.
[45:02.580 --> 45:08.600]  So all of these different ways, whatever works for you, for your lifestyle, your budget, please contribute to WBAI.
[45:08.780 --> 45:14.120]  It's, it's a real, uh, unique place and there's really, uh, nothing else like it on the dial.
[45:14.960 --> 45:15.400]  Absolutely.
[45:15.560 --> 45:27.320]  The BAI buddy program is such an important part of, uh, part of this because it gives us something that, uh, it's really hard for a nonprofit that survives on donations to have, which is a forecastable income, a dependable income.
[45:27.560 --> 45:34.900]  We can look at the BAI buddies we have and say, okay, we're going to, you know, be receiving so much in donations, uh, on such and such date.
[45:35.060 --> 45:39.540]  And that is something that was impossible before this because we start these fundraiser seasons.
[45:39.540 --> 45:41.020]  We don't know how well they'll do.
[45:41.300 --> 45:47.080]  Um, you know, it's, it's really up to, uh, you know, how, who hears it and, uh, fade in time and everything else.
[45:47.200 --> 45:52.420]  But, uh, here we can, we can say with confidence, okay, we will, we will have this much to work with on this date.
[45:52.420 --> 45:55.120]  And that is a huge game changer in what we do here.
[45:55.280 --> 46:09.160]  Yeah, we can make a lot more, um, uh, long-term decisions and, and plan, uh, to, to continue to improve and, and build on the, the community we have here already, uh, especially with, with that uncertainty, um, removed from the picture.
[46:09.160 --> 46:12.720]  But, uh, uh, suffice to say, this is, uh, off the hook.
[46:12.920 --> 46:22.380]  And, uh, tonight we are raising money, uh, and, uh, our, our premiums tonight are from the hope event, the circle of hope, which took place in July.
[46:22.740 --> 46:26.040]  And, uh, those, uh, premiums are available to you.
[46:26.420 --> 46:28.940]  And, um, we're taking your calls right now.
[46:29.080 --> 46:32.020]  516-620-3602.
[46:32.020 --> 46:42.200]  I'm being told that, uh, there are a sizable number of people out there who seem to think that, um, these talks are too technical for them to understand, a bunch of hackers talking about things.
[46:42.460 --> 46:45.320]  Let me, let me just correct that right now, because that is not the case.
[46:45.740 --> 46:46.760]  That is not the case at all.
[46:46.800 --> 46:48.640]  In fact, we strive to make that not the case.
[46:48.680 --> 47:00.440]  I'm going to read you some titles from some of the talks that have, uh, been presented just at this year's conference that you will get for that pledge to 516-620-3602, either in flash drive format or DVD format.
[47:00.440 --> 47:03.280]  Okay, uh, a conversation on internet censorship.
[47:03.620 --> 47:05.180]  A spotlight on secure drop.
[47:05.340 --> 47:07.060]  Anonymous whistleblowing in the Trump era.
[47:07.240 --> 47:08.440]  Tracing invisible neighborhoods.
[47:08.580 --> 47:10.480]  The Brooklyn pirate radio sound map.
[47:10.700 --> 47:12.680]  Crossing the border in the age of Trump.
[47:12.860 --> 47:13.920]  Social engineering.
[47:14.320 --> 47:16.180]  Tech warrior camp at Standing Rock.
[47:16.340 --> 47:17.620]  Lessons for keeping the lights on.
[47:17.720 --> 47:19.040]  And the live feeds streaming.
[47:19.460 --> 47:19.980]  Torrent.
[47:20.080 --> 47:21.400]  More pharmaceutical drugs.
[47:21.520 --> 47:22.120]  File sharing.
[47:22.320 --> 47:23.140]  Still saves lives.
[47:23.360 --> 47:24.740]  The right to repair panel.
[47:25.180 --> 47:26.500]  Go FERPA yourself.
[47:26.780 --> 47:28.300]  Checking your student record.
[47:28.420 --> 47:29.260]  You'll find out what that means.
[47:29.260 --> 47:30.420]  Ardu Touch.
[47:30.540 --> 47:31.540]  Music synthesizer kit.
[47:31.700 --> 47:33.020]  Music generation for newbies.
[47:33.360 --> 47:36.380]  The Cube's OS operating system that can protect you even if you get hacked.
[47:36.580 --> 47:37.580]  Is the internet sick?
[47:37.720 --> 47:39.680]  Findings from Mozilla's internet health report.
[47:40.100 --> 47:41.800]  US and EU legal updates.
[47:41.940 --> 47:42.280]  Privacy.
[47:42.440 --> 47:42.760]  Security.
[47:42.920 --> 47:43.380]  Liability.
[47:43.840 --> 47:45.760]  What should go into a .mobi website.
[47:45.980 --> 47:46.460]  ENIAC.
[47:46.540 --> 47:47.800]  The hack that started it all.
[47:47.920 --> 47:48.600]  Hacking healthcare.
[47:48.860 --> 47:51.800]  Bringing a hacker mindset to solving healthcare's biggest problems.
[47:51.800 --> 47:53.000]  Sex worker rights.
[47:53.120 --> 47:53.820]  And internet freedom.
[47:54.060 --> 47:58.220]  Homebrew 68K retro computing on low cost FPGA boards.
[47:58.400 --> 47:59.320]  The hype is over.
[47:59.460 --> 48:02.180]  So what is desktop 3D printing really about?
[48:02.760 --> 48:06.140]  All of that only got us to five o'clock on the first day.
[48:06.140 --> 48:06.940]  No, stop.
[48:07.180 --> 48:07.200]  Stop.
[48:07.520 --> 48:08.960]  Two more days after that.
[48:09.080 --> 48:10.200]  And it goes to midnight every...
[48:10.200 --> 48:11.140]  I can't even keep...
[48:11.140 --> 48:12.080]  It's...
[48:12.080 --> 48:12.160]  Yeah.
[48:12.160 --> 48:16.280]  So, believe me, there is enough there to interest anybody.
[48:16.420 --> 48:17.900]  I don't care who you are.
[48:18.000 --> 48:23.520]  I don't care how technologically adept or non-adept you might think you are, but you will get something out of this.
[48:23.680 --> 48:24.200]  Trust us.
[48:24.240 --> 48:25.200]  It is fascinating.
[48:26.140 --> 48:28.880]  It's 516-620-3602.
[48:29.040 --> 48:33.120]  Pledge for the Circle of Hope full set flash drives.
[48:33.280 --> 48:33.540]  $100.
[48:33.860 --> 48:40.560]  You'll get 100 talks on two flash drives that'll work in any computer, any TV set that was built in this century.
[48:40.560 --> 48:47.520]  And you can also get the DVDs that will play in just about any DVD-ish device for a pledge of $200.
[48:47.840 --> 48:49.460]  516-620-3602.
[48:49.520 --> 48:52.080]  We do have another excerpt from the conference.
[48:52.080 --> 48:56.300]  This is from another talk called Online Monitoring of the Alt-Right.
[48:56.600 --> 49:01.860]  Online communities have become a popular recruitment platform for Alt-Right and other extremist groups.
[49:01.860 --> 49:10.900]  And while there is no standard playbook for Alt-Right recruitment, some major themes emerge, including recruiting on Discord servers, Reddit boards, Chan boards, and other platforms.
[49:11.540 --> 49:16.140]  This talk is part how-to, part explanatory on research conducted by the speakers.
[49:16.140 --> 49:18.660]  Speakers being Caroline Sinders and Freddie Martinez.
[49:19.260 --> 49:22.900]  Let's listen to a little bit of what they have to say.
[49:22.900 --> 49:24.720]  ...confirm what these memes meant.
[49:24.860 --> 49:28.960]  You don't necessarily get a lot of that from big data analysis or just from scraping alone.
[49:28.960 --> 49:32.500]  You really do have to understand the norms and the contextualization of this.
[49:32.680 --> 49:40.480]  And what I was really aiming for is what Trisha Wang, an ethnographer, calls thick data, or insights drawn from the way that people actually talk, act, and interact.
[49:40.480 --> 49:47.500]  And Reddit is a great place to do this, to observe the norms of a community, with its upvoting, downvoting, threaded comments, subreddits, and posts.
[49:47.740 --> 49:50.800]  Its infrastructure can quickly reveal what a community finds popular.
[49:51.440 --> 49:54.620]  This led me to writing an article called There's an Alt-Right Version of Everything.
[49:55.060 --> 49:56.480]  I think that this is really important.
[49:56.480 --> 50:04.960]  What I noticed when I was writing this article six or eight months ago was some journalists were talking about how the Alt-Right had moved to the dark web.
[50:06.220 --> 50:09.140]  I think what they admit is that the Alt-Right had moved to other websites.
[50:14.120 --> 50:18.380]  And I find that really fascinating because we in this room know that the dark web is a real place.
[50:19.300 --> 50:20.300]  It's a real thing.
[50:20.500 --> 50:22.560]  It's not unvisited websites.
[50:23.160 --> 50:24.880]  What other researchers were...
[50:29.560 --> 50:33.440]  What actually was happening is that the Alt-Right's on the clear web, right?
[50:33.500 --> 50:36.600]  They're on the filter net, but they're just on websites that we don't go to.
[50:36.820 --> 50:39.520]  They're not on Patreon, they're on Hatrion.
[50:39.520 --> 50:42.340]  That's a real crowd sourcing website that they're on.
[50:42.680 --> 50:44.540]  They're not on Reddit, they're on Vote.
[50:46.300 --> 50:47.520]  They're on websites like this.
[50:47.640 --> 50:49.220]  They're not on Twitter, they're on Gab, right?
[50:49.420 --> 50:51.400]  They're not on YouTube, they're on PewTube.
[50:51.560 --> 50:53.320]  They've made their own versions of these sites.
[50:53.480 --> 50:56.440]  But these sites are not .onion services, right?
[50:56.560 --> 50:57.320]  They're actually...
[50:57.320 --> 50:58.500]  Well, we can all visit them today.
[50:58.940 --> 51:00.660]  I think that's really important to point out.
[51:00.660 --> 51:00.680]  What?
[51:01.320 --> 51:02.340]  Please don't.
[51:03.660 --> 51:12.900]  So, another thing that's happened on the internet is a lot of websites have started moving sort of neo-Nazi content offline.
[51:12.900 --> 51:21.540]  So, GoDaddy, Cloudflare, other big providers that have been yelled at for years have started dropping this content.
[51:22.160 --> 51:28.580]  And this is really important to point out because this makes it harder for the alt-right to stay online, to stay in big public spaces.
[51:29.020 --> 51:31.980]  And there's often an argument of, well, it'll force them to go other places.
[51:32.420 --> 51:37.640]  I then invite you to look at the amount of traffic on Vote or how much money Gab can fundraise.
[51:37.980 --> 51:44.640]  When they're not allowed to stay on certain places that we're congregating in, they're forced to go other places, it's actually still hard for those places to stay up, right?
[51:44.740 --> 51:46.660]  It's very hard for Gab to keep fundraising money.
[51:46.820 --> 51:48.120]  Vote has not a lot of traffic.
[51:48.120 --> 51:51.060]  Any friction here is good and necessary.
[51:52.620 --> 51:54.900]  And this is also still another example.
[51:56.260 --> 52:02.340]  And again, sort of building up what I previously said, the alt-right can use or was using spaces like Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook to recruit.
[52:02.600 --> 52:05.560]  It's not hyperbole when people ask Jack to ban the Nazis.
[52:06.320 --> 52:08.160]  And this example is really important.
[52:08.320 --> 52:12.980]  It seems like tech companies keep bending over backwards to try to keep this toxic content online.
[52:13.160 --> 52:14.960]  And there could be a variety of reasons.
[52:14.960 --> 52:17.980]  Maybe it's a misunderstanding around the First Amendment.
[52:18.740 --> 52:22.880]  Or maybe they just want to have platforms that are constantly engaging.
[52:23.900 --> 52:25.880]  Here's another example from Facebook.
[52:26.280 --> 52:29.840]  And I wanted to highlight one particular example from YouTube.
[52:30.120 --> 52:32.320]  This is from this thing called Fashwave.
[52:32.320 --> 52:36.120]  It is sort of vaporwave infused with fascist ideologies.
[52:36.440 --> 52:43.660]  So they take pixelated art, highly neon, sort of highly neon colors and things like that.
[52:43.800 --> 52:46.240]  And they use that to make art.
[52:46.460 --> 52:50.940]  So here's 30 seconds from this thing, from this artist called SS Soldaten.
[52:52.720 --> 52:53.940]  Brief content warning.
[52:54.140 --> 52:55.140]  Brief content warning.
[52:55.300 --> 52:55.380]  Yeah.
[52:55.640 --> 52:56.040]  Appreciate it.
[52:56.260 --> 53:00.740]  They use a sunrod, which is a black sun, which is a major sort of Nazi symbol.
[53:01.240 --> 53:04.340]  And this is what they want people to listen to when they're programming.
[53:36.440 --> 53:38.660]  So that's what they want people to listen to.
[53:39.460 --> 53:43.500]  Another thing that the All Right does is they look at current events.
[53:43.500 --> 53:47.980]  Here is a GIF of Mike Pence electrocuting queer people.
[53:48.220 --> 53:49.500]  This was their inside joke.
[53:50.540 --> 53:53.840]  We found this photo in March of 2017.
[53:55.440 --> 54:00.760]  And one of the memes that was happening in the All Right during the time was Mike Pence is based.
[54:00.980 --> 54:04.940]  And his version of being based is that he likes to electrocute queer people.
[54:06.000 --> 54:10.820]  And that's important because when I found this GIF, I was like, what is going on here?
[54:10.820 --> 54:22.480]  And it became apparent much later when this is a headline from October of 2017 of Trump talking about Mike Pence wanting to hang gay people.
[54:23.100 --> 54:30.000]  So what's important here is the memeing and the memeing of sort of current political events.
[54:30.000 --> 54:43.780]  So if you want to do this research, you really, like, as much as I hate, you know, the paint box of opening my phone and reading Twitter every day, you do, if you want to do this research, you do have to really understand sort of the entire political climate.
[54:45.120 --> 54:49.460]  So as an example, this is another Happy Merchant.
[54:49.720 --> 54:54.200]  It's very hard to see, but each of the sub-images are anime characters.
[54:54.200 --> 55:08.380]  And one of the things that's very popular in the alt-right is using anime characters sort of with, like, Make America Great hats or things like that and boosting sort of some of the rhetoric of the Trump campaign.
[55:08.540 --> 55:13.600]  It's not directly linked, but there's a lot of memeing and re-imaging and re-memeing of previous content.
[55:13.840 --> 55:23.520]  So if you just look at that Mike Pence electrocuting a queer person GIF, you won't actually get the full context until you see the stuff that happens eight months later.
[55:23.520 --> 55:24.460]  Yeah.
[55:24.780 --> 55:27.000]  Well, we're gonna have to stop it there.
[55:27.360 --> 55:28.560]  That is a fascinating talk.
[55:28.740 --> 55:33.620]  Online monitoring of the alt-right as it was given at the Circle of Hope conference this past July.
[55:33.860 --> 55:38.440]  Available to all listeners who call in to 516-620-3602.
[55:38.540 --> 55:39.200]  Pledge $100.
[55:39.680 --> 55:44.060]  Get two flash drives with all the talks that were presented at the conference this summer.
[55:44.440 --> 55:46.940]  Pledge $200 if you want them in DVD format.
[55:47.200 --> 55:48.280]  One talk per DVD.
[55:48.280 --> 55:49.740]  You'll get 100 DVDs in the mail.
[55:49.860 --> 55:50.500]  It'll be quite a day.
[55:51.120 --> 55:53.120]  This is amazing content.
[55:53.580 --> 55:55.240]  That talk was absolutely riveting.
[55:55.500 --> 55:59.160]  But like I was saying before, there were so many amazing good talks.
[55:59.280 --> 56:03.180]  And that's why so many people are focused on the HOPE conferences.
[56:03.180 --> 56:04.380]  That's why there's controversy.
[56:04.540 --> 56:05.340]  That's why there's conflict.
[56:05.540 --> 56:07.240]  Because these are relevant issues.
[56:07.380 --> 56:16.000]  These are things that are fascinating and dangerous thoughts, dangerous concepts, dangerous ways of fighting things that deserve to be fought.
[56:17.060 --> 56:18.000]  Become part of that.
[56:18.140 --> 56:19.400]  Become part of the education.
[56:19.640 --> 56:20.760]  Learn what it's all about.
[56:20.940 --> 56:23.660]  It's not about coding, necessarily.
[56:23.660 --> 56:25.960]  It's not about being technical.
[56:26.100 --> 56:26.960]  It can be.
[56:27.080 --> 56:28.240]  But it's not required.
[56:28.240 --> 56:29.380]  You can appreciate this.
[56:29.420 --> 56:30.360]  You can understand this.
[56:30.780 --> 56:32.440]  No matter what your skill level.
[56:32.580 --> 56:35.140]  You just have to be interested in the material.
[56:35.140 --> 56:42.200]  And I think with the wide variety of material that we have at this conference, I think that will be an easy thing to accomplish.
[56:42.640 --> 56:47.940]  Again, 516-620-3602 or the website give2wbai.org.
[56:48.120 --> 56:54.240]  Simply ask for the Circle of Hope full set, either in DVD format or flash drive format.
[56:54.240 --> 56:57.340]  And I think you'll be quite pleased.
[56:57.340 --> 57:03.180]  I was very proud of the many talks that we got this year that were presented.
[57:03.480 --> 57:04.980]  And also the presentation.
[57:05.140 --> 57:08.300]  Our AV team did an amazing job making all of this look good.
[57:08.360 --> 57:09.900]  The lighting was simply perfect.
[57:10.440 --> 57:11.640]  The sound...
[57:12.660 --> 57:14.340]  It left nothing to be desired.
[57:14.340 --> 57:16.520]  As you can hear, it sounds amazing.
[57:16.700 --> 57:21.080]  And you can enjoy all of this in full HD quality, in the comfort of your own home.
[57:21.100 --> 57:23.640]  You can see the imagery that went along with it.
[57:23.640 --> 57:38.600]  And absolutely, we have to say thank you to everyone who's supporting us by going to give2wbai.org, dialing 516-620-3602 or texting WBAI to 41444 because you are the only thing that's kept this station going for decades and decades.
[57:38.860 --> 57:42.100]  You are the only thing that's kept this actual show going for now three decades.
[57:42.300 --> 57:44.480]  And we couldn't do it without you.
[57:44.700 --> 57:48.540]  So give2wbai.org, 516-620-3602.
[57:48.840 --> 57:51.080]  Text WBAI to 41444.
[57:51.080 --> 57:59.700]  Think about this Thanksgiving when you accidentally start playing one of these on the TV set while your uncle's just finishing off his third beer.
[57:59.960 --> 58:00.340]  I don't know.
[58:00.400 --> 58:06.040]  It could be very interesting conversations that go on as a result of some of the things that have been discussed and conversations that need to happen.
[58:06.320 --> 58:07.940]  So let's not avoid it.
[58:07.980 --> 58:08.600]  Let's confront it.
[58:08.680 --> 58:09.660]  Let's jump right into it.
[58:09.780 --> 58:13.960]  Again, 516-620-3602 or give2wbai.org.
[58:14.180 --> 58:18.280]  Pledge whatever you can afford or just pledge for the Circle of Hope full sets.
[58:18.280 --> 58:22.840]  And that's going to pretty much do it for us here tonight as we are out of time.
[58:23.020 --> 58:27.360]  But you can write to us, OTH at 2600.com.
[58:27.500 --> 58:30.280]  We'd love to hear from you, your viewpoints, your feedback.
[58:30.960 --> 58:36.940]  And we expect to be back next week with some more fun and more updates on what's going on in the world of technology and hacking.
[58:37.480 --> 58:38.780]  Until then, I'm Manuel Goldstein.
[58:38.900 --> 58:39.300]  Have a good night.