[00:00.000 --> 00:03.540]  January 26th, 5.30 p.m.
[00:03.760 --> 00:09.500]  at the Jalopy Theater, 315 Columbia Street in Red Hook, Brooklyn.
[00:09.780 --> 00:16.640]  For more information, email stoptheraidsatprotonmail.com.
[00:16.920 --> 00:22.420]  That's stoptheraidsatprotonmail.com.
[00:31.440 --> 00:33.750]  And you're listening to WBAI in New York.
[00:33.890 --> 00:37.350]  We're trying to get the CD loaded into the drive there.
[00:37.520 --> 00:43.500]  As soon as the CD gets loaded, we will be playing the intro to Off the Hook because that's the program that's coming up next.
[00:44.160 --> 00:46.380]  We're ejecting it now, putting it into the other drive.
[00:46.980 --> 00:58.820]  Technology just roars ahead here at WBAI in New York, 99.5 FM, where every Wednesday at 7 p.m., you can hear the program that focuses on high technology.
[00:59.160 --> 01:00.900]  Oh, it's queued up now.
[01:01.100 --> 01:06.380]  It's time for me to bring up the appropriate lever there and say it's time for Off the Hook.
[01:08.600 --> 01:10.020]  And then wonder why it's not playing.
[01:10.160 --> 01:11.400]  Why, Reggie, is it not playing?
[01:11.540 --> 01:13.100]  It's playing there, but it's not playing on the board.
[01:13.360 --> 01:13.820]  Wait a minute.
[01:14.110 --> 01:14.640]  All right, wait.
[01:14.830 --> 01:15.240]  Start again.
[01:16.040 --> 01:16.680]  Wait a minute.
[01:16.860 --> 01:18.200]  The wrong button was pressed, wasn't it?
[01:18.580 --> 01:18.940]  Okay.
[01:19.260 --> 01:19.560]  Okay.
[01:19.820 --> 01:20.140]  Now.
[01:24.640 --> 01:27.340]  The problem with that is you started in the middle of...
[01:27.340 --> 01:30.240]  Yeah, so you've got to hit the pause button and make sure...
[01:30.240 --> 01:31.820]  Okay, I'm going to hit stop and then pause.
[01:32.260 --> 01:32.680]  All right?
[01:32.820 --> 01:33.120]  All right.
[01:33.400 --> 01:35.460]  It's a good thing this is on tape and we can edit this out.
[01:35.460 --> 01:35.900]  All right.
[01:36.220 --> 01:37.980]  It's 7-0-1 now.
[01:38.140 --> 01:40.300]  Time for another edition of Off the Hook.
[01:41.300 --> 01:42.420]  See how smooth that was?
[03:26.000 --> 03:28.520]  And it's another exciting edition of Off the Hook.
[03:28.620 --> 03:31.800]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you, joined tonight by Rob T.
[03:31.920 --> 03:32.360]  Firefly.
[03:32.360 --> 03:33.060]  Good evening.
[03:33.640 --> 03:33.960]  Kyle.
[03:34.240 --> 03:34.720]  Yo, yo.
[03:34.980 --> 03:35.700]  And Voltaire.
[03:35.900 --> 03:36.100]  Hello.
[03:36.540 --> 03:37.220]  Welcome back, Rob.
[03:37.680 --> 03:38.000]  Thanks.
[03:38.100 --> 03:38.660]  It's good to be back.
[03:38.740 --> 03:39.120]  It's been a while.
[03:39.260 --> 03:40.360]  You've been... Wait a minute.
[03:40.880 --> 03:41.500]  We've been away.
[03:41.580 --> 03:42.080]  Hold on a second.
[03:42.120 --> 03:42.500]  Yeah, you guys have been away.
[03:42.500 --> 03:45.560]  You were away last week, but we came back last... Kyle and I came back last week.
[03:45.640 --> 03:47.040]  Yeah, we're like ships passing in the night.
[03:47.120 --> 03:49.040]  But yeah, I guess we were away more than you were away.
[03:49.140 --> 03:50.420]  Yeah, so welcome back to you guys.
[03:50.420 --> 03:51.080]  We're all back now.
[03:51.600 --> 03:52.480]  Alex is not here.
[03:53.680 --> 03:54.560]  All right, well...
[03:54.560 --> 03:55.640]  We can't welcome him back.
[03:55.640 --> 03:56.300]  Yeah, you know...
[03:56.300 --> 03:57.160]  He's still welcome, though.
[03:57.160 --> 03:59.820]  We only have so many microphones, so that's how it works.
[04:00.800 --> 04:03.040]  Yeah, you know, the new studio is being built.
[04:03.300 --> 04:04.260]  Can you take a look at it, Kyle?
[04:04.400 --> 04:04.780]  Down the hall?
[04:04.960 --> 04:05.900]  It's really coming along.
[04:06.180 --> 04:06.720]  I approve.
[04:07.000 --> 04:07.840]  Yeah, it's...
[04:07.840 --> 04:10.600]  New walls, old walls, tearing down walls.
[04:11.660 --> 04:13.220]  Things being wheeled down the hallway.
[04:13.620 --> 04:16.220]  All kinds of progress is being made here at this radio station.
[04:16.380 --> 04:17.910]  And it's, you know, we were...
[04:17.910 --> 04:19.500]  We're on an hour earlier now.
[04:19.650 --> 04:20.740]  We're on 7 o'clock instead of 8.
[04:21.270 --> 04:24.220]  It makes a huge difference when you're driving at that hour.
[04:24.480 --> 04:28.220]  Just to say, you know, we have to put in a lot more effort to get here.
[04:28.650 --> 04:29.520]  And it's very...
[04:29.520 --> 04:30.640]  Kyle, you were driving today.
[04:30.790 --> 04:31.600]  It was very frustrating.
[04:31.650 --> 04:34.580]  Very scary at times.
[04:34.880 --> 04:37.270]  But, you know, what we had that kept us going?
[04:37.440 --> 04:38.650]  We had WBAI.
[04:38.770 --> 04:39.860]  We were listening to the evening news.
[04:40.000 --> 04:43.790]  We were listening to the Trump Horror Show.
[04:45.020 --> 04:48.380]  Just so many really good things to listen to on this radio station.
[04:48.380 --> 04:52.530]  And I'm just very happy to be a part of it and to have so many programs that we can listen to.
[04:53.580 --> 04:55.460]  And, you know, I think it's going to keep getting better.
[04:55.680 --> 04:59.440]  I think we have our winter fundraiser coming up in two weeks.
[05:00.030 --> 05:01.340]  And we're looking forward to it.
[05:01.700 --> 05:05.480]  We don't usually look forward to it, but we are now because we're making such good progress.
[05:05.480 --> 05:09.200]  So that's something that we're going to be diving into.
[05:10.930 --> 05:19.120]  If you have pledged in the past and you are still waiting for your premiums, we're either right on top of it and working on it right now, or we don't know about it.
[05:19.290 --> 05:22.180]  Either way, email us, OTH at 2600.com.
[05:22.340 --> 05:28.820]  Remind us if you have not gotten or have been contacted by us concerning your premiums.
[05:28.880 --> 05:31.860]  And we will take care of that because we're pretty much on top of things now.
[05:32.180 --> 05:32.540]  Yeah.
[05:32.700 --> 05:40.880]  And those of you who have emailed us over the past few weeks, four weeks, five weeks, about premiums you haven't gotten, we did get those.
[05:40.880 --> 05:43.340]  And I have been following up on those particular ones.
[05:43.520 --> 05:50.540]  But in general, if you've got something outstanding and you would like us to look into it, let us know.
[05:50.680 --> 05:54.020]  And we can confirm whether or not we knew about it.
[05:54.120 --> 06:02.760]  And we can work on getting you what you deserve because it's as frustrating for us as it is for you when that doesn't work out.
[06:02.840 --> 06:04.120]  But we're making strides.
[06:04.240 --> 06:04.920]  We're making strides.
[06:05.060 --> 06:05.440]  We are.
[06:05.580 --> 06:09.360]  And we're looking forward to, as I said, we're looking forward to the next fundraiser.
[06:09.360 --> 06:14.200]  We want to come up with some really interesting premiums and possibly interviews and things like that.
[06:14.320 --> 06:17.000]  All kinds of ideas and projects ahead.
[06:17.840 --> 06:19.540]  Hey, can I just take a moment, though?
[06:19.640 --> 06:28.460]  Because I'd like to draw upon the brainpower of the off-the-hook listenership, which is an impressive amount of brainpower.
[06:28.460 --> 06:33.560]  When you actually call upon it and it responds, the things that you find out are almost scary.
[06:34.060 --> 06:36.200]  But our listeners have a tremendous amount of knowledge.
[06:36.360 --> 06:40.720]  And I'm hoping that today they can demonstrate that knowledge and help us out.
[06:40.740 --> 06:43.560]  Because we've been trying to decode a particular signal.
[06:44.500 --> 06:48.160]  And what I'm going to do is I'm going to play this signal over the radio.
[06:49.080 --> 07:02.620]  And if you have a tape recorder or some means of recording, or you can always play back the radio show by going to 2600.com slash off-the-hook or listening to the WBA archive and recording it that way, we have a data recording.
[07:03.160 --> 07:06.280]  I'm not going to reveal exactly where it...
[07:06.280 --> 07:08.100]  Actually, I guess we can reveal where it came from.
[07:08.200 --> 07:10.860]  But it's...
[07:10.860 --> 07:10.940]  All right.
[07:11.660 --> 07:12.100]  It's...
[07:13.160 --> 07:16.520]  There's that interactive episode of Black Mirror.
[07:17.300 --> 07:21.960]  And we discovered a secret part of it where a particular signal is being played.
[07:21.960 --> 07:29.700]  Now, I believe this is flex, flex pager traffic from the 1980s or 1990s.
[07:29.760 --> 07:30.660]  I'm not exactly sure when.
[07:31.360 --> 07:36.980]  You have to make a few choices in the episode to get to this particular point.
[07:37.080 --> 07:38.580]  And if you do that...
[07:38.580 --> 07:45.600]  Yeah, we've sort of wasted the whole week playing with the episode and figuring out all kinds of different endings and possibilities and scenarios.
[07:45.960 --> 07:47.860]  But there is a point where you get this.
[07:48.460 --> 07:49.880]  And I have not looked.
[07:49.880 --> 07:52.820]  I have not tried to find out if anyone else has decoded it yet.
[07:52.980 --> 07:53.560]  Yeah, that's the rule.
[07:53.660 --> 07:59.700]  I don't want to hear any spoilers from some media, some write-up on the episode itself.
[08:00.160 --> 08:01.880]  I want technical means.
[08:01.880 --> 08:02.720]  I want answers.
[08:02.720 --> 08:13.720]  I want to know from an actual output of some analysis of this, not something that a bunch of people already read the story and already know.
[08:13.860 --> 08:14.640]  That's not fair.
[08:15.040 --> 08:16.520]  I want technical solutions.
[08:16.740 --> 08:18.280]  How this data...
[08:18.280 --> 08:20.680]  It's possible that nobody has done this.
[08:20.820 --> 08:22.340]  It's possible that everybody knows about it already.
[08:22.500 --> 08:25.700]  You know, we kind of stay away from the internet sometimes when we don't want to know something.
[08:25.900 --> 08:26.440]  We haven't looked.
[08:26.600 --> 08:27.340]  We have not looked.
[08:27.500 --> 08:29.760]  So, you know, if we're making fools of ourselves, fine.
[08:30.160 --> 08:30.500]  But respect that.
[08:30.500 --> 08:32.080]  Chuck that one up and add it to the list.
[08:32.080 --> 08:38.670]  But, you know, we were trying to decode this ourselves and we weren't able to find a really simple way of doing it.
[08:38.860 --> 08:41.120]  You know, basically taking a file and playing it back.
[08:41.300 --> 08:45.820]  There are ways where you can hook a scanner up and build all kinds of hardware and...
[08:45.820 --> 08:49.020]  Well, we'd have to compile a bunch of different people's projects and stuff like that.
[08:49.060 --> 08:49.880]  Who has the time?
[08:50.000 --> 08:50.600]  We're busy.
[08:50.740 --> 08:53.240]  We got enough little things on our list.
[08:53.240 --> 08:56.900]  We should explain what this is for the listeners who are unfamiliar.
[08:57.500 --> 09:04.210]  The show Black Mirror, which is on Netflix, released a special episode which works in a choose-your-own-adventure manner.
[09:04.420 --> 09:09.360]  So, you watch a scene, you decide what you want the character to do, and you select that with your remote control.
[09:09.500 --> 09:11.670]  So, there are all kinds of paths you can take through the story.
[09:11.840 --> 09:18.840]  You can see things that no one else has seen yet, things that you haven't seen before, and make the story go off in all sorts of fun directions.
[09:19.080 --> 09:19.660]  Have you seen it?
[09:19.780 --> 09:20.500]  I have seen it.
[09:20.500 --> 09:24.760]  Now, it's interesting because not every TV can play it back, which I find annoying.
[09:25.640 --> 09:27.480]  It forces you to buy a new TV set.
[09:27.540 --> 09:30.450]  We had to go out and buy a brand new TV set just to watch the TV program.
[09:30.640 --> 09:31.430]  Well, no, we didn't.
[09:31.480 --> 09:33.880]  But, you know, I imagine people probably had to do that.
[09:34.000 --> 09:39.690]  If you have the wrong kind of TV set, you get a three-minute trailer that just says, Sorry, we can't play this.
[09:40.300 --> 09:42.560]  You know, there are all kinds of...
[09:42.560 --> 09:46.710]  It's kind of time-consuming, so you can't really focus too much on it.
[09:46.820 --> 09:55.280]  But you can have it on the background and hit different combinations, or you can have it just play back and choose to default each time and see what happens in that particular case.
[09:55.450 --> 09:59.140]  I think we covered all the bases, but, you know, it's quite possible there's something we didn't do.
[10:00.760 --> 10:06.540]  But there was one scenario, a particularly challenging scenario, where we were able to get this particular hidden part.
[10:06.660 --> 10:08.740]  Now, hopefully everybody has grabbed their tape recorders by now.
[10:08.740 --> 10:10.120]  Now, we're going to play this.
[10:10.140 --> 10:11.460]  We're not going to talk over it.
[10:12.000 --> 10:15.820]  Again, this is what I believe, and I'm not even sure this is what it is.
[10:15.880 --> 10:24.040]  I was just able to guess this based on the initial sounds and what the frequency sounds like.
[10:24.120 --> 10:31.360]  If I'm wrong, if this is not, in fact, flex pager traffic, then correct us and tell us what it actually is.
[10:31.360 --> 10:36.000]  In any event, this is the best recording we could get of the mystery sound.
[10:36.000 --> 10:43.000]  If you can decode it, tell us what it says, or figure out a way to pipe it into something, we will split.
[10:43.000 --> 10:45.360]  If there's a cash reward or something, we will split it with you.
[10:45.900 --> 10:50.620]  If there are congratulations to be had, we will make sure that you are represented.
[10:51.900 --> 10:57.920]  And without any further ado, here is the mystery sound from the interactive Black Mirror episode.
[11:43.200 --> 11:43.900]  There you go.
[11:43.980 --> 11:44.300]  That's it.
[11:45.280 --> 11:45.740]  That's it.
[11:46.060 --> 11:47.000]  Did some of you get it by ear?
[11:47.620 --> 11:50.660]  It made perfect sense to me, but I don't know if I want to spoil it for the rest of you guys.
[11:50.900 --> 11:56.540]  That, I believe, is pager traffic of some sort, a pager message, and we would love to find out what it is.
[11:56.700 --> 12:03.820]  If you can figure it out, if you can help decode it, write to us, OTH at 2600.com.
[12:03.980 --> 12:06.660]  We would love to hear what the answer is.
[12:06.720 --> 12:07.500]  Maybe it means nothing.
[12:07.620 --> 12:09.900]  Maybe it's not flex pager traffic after all.
[12:10.060 --> 12:10.640]  I don't know.
[12:10.640 --> 12:16.260]  But using the brainpower of the off-the-hook listenership, I think we can find out most anything.
[12:16.400 --> 12:16.660]  Voltaire?
[12:16.940 --> 12:19.760]  Do we have a digital file of that that we could post online?
[12:19.940 --> 12:20.400]  We do.
[12:20.520 --> 12:21.640]  We do have a digital file of that.
[12:21.760 --> 12:26.600]  I'm sure we could post that to the Twitter account for the show, Hacker Radio Show.
[12:26.600 --> 12:27.360]  We could do that.
[12:27.760 --> 12:29.240]  Then people don't have to listen to the whole show.
[12:29.360 --> 12:29.680]  That's true.
[12:29.780 --> 12:30.320]  That's an advantage.
[12:30.980 --> 12:33.260]  Yeah, that would be, I'm sure, helpful to people.
[12:33.680 --> 12:46.140]  One of the things that we ran into when we were trying to play around with this and figure it out was a lot of software that was built for SDR, software-defined radio, in real time, like, you know, over the air.
[12:47.940 --> 12:55.760]  And we couldn't exactly, yeah, get a means to run it through something sort of offline or not live.
[12:56.460 --> 12:57.780]  There's plenty of ways to do it.
[12:57.860 --> 12:59.580]  In fact, there's a couple ways to do it.
[13:00.920 --> 13:11.320]  But I think it'd be a lot cooler if other people got to help out and perhaps people that already have this set up so we don't have to run down a rabbit hole chasing this mystery.
[13:11.320 --> 13:14.020]  And I really hope that no one has figured it out yet.
[13:14.420 --> 13:14.960]  It's possible.
[13:15.140 --> 13:15.500]  It's possible.
[13:15.600 --> 13:16.160]  Someone has.
[13:16.360 --> 13:17.500]  And we're just wasting our time.
[13:17.660 --> 13:27.180]  And by the way, thanks to Charlie Brooker for wasting so much of our time because we basically have spent hours figuring out different ways.
[13:27.600 --> 13:29.720]  If you haven't seen it, it really is worth it, though.
[13:29.900 --> 13:37.700]  It's worth... if you ever played an adventure game, it's kind of like that where you basically choose a path and something different happens based on that path.
[13:37.700 --> 13:41.660]  Except it's a TV program and you're choosing directions within that.
[13:41.840 --> 13:44.080]  It's very self-referential, very cleverly done.
[13:45.120 --> 13:47.240]  And the characters are very believable.
[13:48.320 --> 13:53.100]  But this is just one mystery that we were not able to figure out.
[13:53.340 --> 14:02.000]  And there are a lot of really good Easter eggs in it for hacker folks who either remember that period of time in PC history, it's set in the mid-80s, or who are curious about it.
[14:02.440 --> 14:06.100]  You know, just the machines they're using and the way things are programmed and done.
[14:06.100 --> 14:11.480]  Like, they did their research, they did their homework, and it all rings pretty true, you know, in general.
[14:11.600 --> 14:12.080]  It's amazing.
[14:12.340 --> 14:24.000]  The number of programs, from Halt and Catch Fire to all kinds of movies about the development of computers in the 1980s and 1990s, they all require these old computers.
[14:24.100 --> 14:27.120]  Our friends at the Vintage Computer Festival...
[14:27.120 --> 14:28.400]  The Federation.
[14:28.680 --> 14:29.820]  I'm sorry, I don't want to get that wrong.
[14:29.820 --> 14:36.140]  So, their efforts in preserving old hardware are really rewarded here.
[14:36.340 --> 14:47.660]  And anyone who does that, anyone who preserves the technology, you'll find there's a tremendous interest in it a couple of decades down the road when people want to make documentaries or fictionalized pieces.
[14:48.440 --> 14:49.980]  They want the actual hardware.
[14:50.080 --> 14:51.000]  They want to see how things work.
[14:51.060 --> 14:53.240]  And, of course, computer scientists are always fascinated by this.
[14:53.240 --> 14:55.240]  So, don't throw out your tech.
[14:55.420 --> 15:00.060]  Don't throw out your phones, your computers, abacuses, whatever it is you use.
[15:00.640 --> 15:01.620]  Hang on to it.
[15:01.800 --> 15:04.840]  It'll be worth something to somebody in some way.
[15:05.260 --> 15:08.700]  And, you know, we hold on to so much.
[15:08.760 --> 15:12.660]  And it's good to see that actually pay off at some point.
[15:13.280 --> 15:13.480]  Walter.
[15:14.620 --> 15:19.620]  The storytelling, too, it's fascinating that the arc of it is coming back around to this era.
[15:19.620 --> 15:27.860]  Yeah, you see, it's definitely from before my time, but, like, having watched Get Lamped, the Jason Scott documentary, I feel like that's good homework to prepare me for this.
[15:27.860 --> 15:31.480]  I wonder if Jason Scott has seen this, because he would go bananas over it, I think.
[15:31.720 --> 15:32.020]  Yes.
[15:32.140 --> 15:34.300]  I'm sure he has an archive of every ending.
[15:35.120 --> 15:35.560]  Probably.
[15:36.480 --> 15:37.860]  Okay, so enough about that.
[15:38.380 --> 15:43.640]  Again, thanks in advance to our Off the Hook listeners for helping us out with this.
[15:45.380 --> 15:46.400]  We have some news.
[15:46.400 --> 15:53.380]  We have some important news to read to people, and we're going to try and get through this, because this is an important story.
[15:55.380 --> 16:00.700]  Laura Lyons, a name we probably have all heard, we're probably all familiar with it right now, because of the seriousness of the story.
[16:01.380 --> 16:05.580]  She was preparing food in her kitchen on Sunday when the lazy afternoon took a turn for the absurd.
[16:06.280 --> 16:10.140]  A loud squawking, similar to the beginning of an emergency broadcast alert.
[16:10.160 --> 16:12.280]  We all heard it on our phones a few months ago.
[16:13.000 --> 16:14.420]  It blasted from the living room.
[16:15.400 --> 16:17.540]  That's according to the mother from Orinda.
[16:18.300 --> 16:20.220]  Okay, you know, I don't know where Orinda is.
[16:20.300 --> 16:21.540]  Does anybody know where Orinda is?
[16:21.560 --> 16:25.700]  This news story seems to think that everybody knows where Orinda is.
[16:25.820 --> 16:26.580]  Maybe it's...
[16:27.800 --> 16:35.620]  Okay, well, it might be Los Angeles, Chicago, or Ohio, because those are the three locations listed as where this event took place.
[16:37.320 --> 16:38.020]  Yeah, okay.
[16:38.160 --> 16:39.300]  Well, anyway, she's...
[16:39.300 --> 16:47.540]  You know, Orinda, she heard a detailed warning of three North Korean intercontinental ballistic missiles that were heading to those three locations.
[16:48.200 --> 16:55.000]  It warned that the United States had retaliated against Pyongyang, and that people in the affected areas had three hours to evacuate, said Lyons.
[16:55.080 --> 16:56.180]  It sounded completely legit.
[16:56.560 --> 16:57.540]  And it...
[16:57.540 --> 16:59.520]  Okay, that sounded completely legit to you.
[16:59.580 --> 17:00.340]  It was loud.
[17:00.460 --> 17:01.800]  It got our attention right off the bat.
[17:01.800 --> 17:17.240]  It was five minutes of sheer terror, and another 30 minutes of trying to figure out what was going on, followed by six minutes of mere terror that was not really as sheer as the first terror, and then confusion after that, followed by six minutes where nobody really said anything.
[17:18.800 --> 17:26.680]  Lyons and her husband stood slack-jawed in the living room, terrified, but also confused because the television continued airing the NFC Championship football game.
[17:27.000 --> 17:28.920]  Now, everybody was confused by that game.
[17:28.920 --> 17:36.940]  As you recall, the Saints were robbed because of a bad call, and the Rams wound up going to the Super Bowl instead, and it's really unfair and confusing.
[17:37.260 --> 17:38.980]  But that's got nothing to do with this story.
[17:39.560 --> 17:43.560]  They basically were confused by the message of impending nuclear doom.
[17:44.000 --> 17:47.130]  As their scared eight-year-old son crawled underneath the rug...
[17:48.180 --> 17:48.840]  Wait a minute.
[17:49.560 --> 17:50.620]  I'm really trying.
[17:50.740 --> 17:52.360]  I'm trying hard to keep a straight face here.
[17:52.980 --> 17:53.840]  We all are.
[17:54.340 --> 17:55.940]  But who crawls under a rug?
[17:56.440 --> 17:58.560]  Yeah, are you supposed to crawl under a desk?
[17:58.560 --> 18:02.020]  You crawl under a desk, you crawl under a bed, you crawl under, you know, a garage.
[18:02.040 --> 18:02.640]  I don't know.
[18:02.780 --> 18:04.100]  How do you crawl under a rug?
[18:04.300 --> 18:05.540]  I don't think any of that would help.
[18:05.860 --> 18:06.220]  No.
[18:06.660 --> 18:10.060]  I mean, it wouldn't be very safe.
[18:10.460 --> 18:18.860]  Anyway, okay, so the eight-year-old son crawled underneath the rug, and that's when the couple realized the apocalyptic warning came from their Nest security camera atop their living room television.
[18:19.720 --> 18:20.740]  All right, a couple of things.
[18:21.860 --> 18:25.040]  First of all, why is your Nest security camera talking to you?
[18:25.380 --> 18:28.440]  That right away should tell you that something weird is going on.
[18:28.640 --> 18:29.800]  Why put it on top of your TV?
[18:29.840 --> 18:30.320]  Why is it...
[18:30.320 --> 18:30.900]  I was getting to that.
[18:30.960 --> 18:32.520]  Why is it on top of your television set?
[18:32.520 --> 18:34.600]  What kind of security camera do you need on top of your TV?
[18:35.160 --> 18:38.460]  Are you afraid people are watching the wrong programs or something?
[18:38.660 --> 18:43.380]  Or maybe you have intruders coming in and settling down in the living room, turning on the TV set?
[18:43.380 --> 18:44.520]  But I don't know.
[18:44.660 --> 18:48.880]  But anyway, after many panic minutes and phone calls to 911 and to Nest...
[18:48.880 --> 18:50.140]  How do you call Nest?
[18:50.460 --> 18:51.800]  How do you call Nest?
[18:52.060 --> 18:53.020]  Wow, okay.
[18:53.300 --> 18:55.860]  I'm sure 911 really appreciated the phone calls, too.
[18:56.100 --> 18:59.840]  The couple learned they likely were the victims of...
[18:59.840 --> 19:00.700]  Say it together.
[19:01.240 --> 19:02.100]  A hacker.
[19:02.700 --> 19:03.560]  Yeah, a hacker.
[19:04.400 --> 19:06.160]  Because nobody else could do this.
[19:06.400 --> 19:11.320]  Nobody else engaging in such mischief would ever not be a hacker, just be a jerk.
[19:11.320 --> 19:15.600]  Uh, that panic then turned to anger when they found out that Nest knew.
[19:16.060 --> 19:21.740]  Nest knew there had been a number of such incidents, but none involving nuclear strike scenarios.
[19:22.200 --> 19:23.920]  But failed to alert customers.
[19:24.040 --> 19:25.360]  I'm not sure what the other ones could be.
[19:25.600 --> 19:28.520]  Uh, people talking through Nest cameras, I guess?
[19:28.720 --> 19:30.860]  Well, yeah, I suppose that's possible if you...
[19:30.860 --> 19:35.080]  If you, uh, have that, uh, ability and you don't have much security.
[19:35.960 --> 19:38.020]  Um, you know, where I come from, Nest...
[19:38.020 --> 19:39.440]  Nest controls the temperature.
[19:39.740 --> 19:40.920]  It doesn't do much else.
[19:40.920 --> 19:45.500]  Now they're talking to you, and they can watch you, and, and, and, and scare you?
[19:46.200 --> 19:49.600]  Yeah, it seemed to be for, like, climate control, not, uh, security.
[19:49.980 --> 19:56.300]  Yeah, it's basically Google bought the brand, and now all their, uh, quote-unquote home security devices are them.
[19:56.460 --> 19:59.560]  But I wasn't aware that they have speakers built into them.
[19:59.960 --> 20:00.940]  Well, apparently they...
[20:00.940 --> 20:01.760]  I know that they have cameras, but...
[20:01.760 --> 20:03.120]  Yeah, apparently they got speakers.
[20:03.420 --> 20:05.120]  I guess they didn't know about it either.
[20:05.120 --> 20:09.680]  Well, they're, they're also competing with Ring, which has the video doorbells.
[20:09.780 --> 20:11.860]  You see those advertised everywhere, and...
[20:11.860 --> 20:12.700]  Which are owned by Amazon.
[20:13.020 --> 20:14.600]  Those have a, a talkback feature.
[20:14.620 --> 20:16.140]  Well, those are good for telling kids to get off of your lawn.
[20:16.360 --> 20:16.500]  Yeah, that's the big...
[20:16.500 --> 20:18.240]  Without having to get up and tell kids to get off of your lawn.
[20:18.260 --> 20:18.520]  Yeah, it yells back.
[20:18.740 --> 20:22.300]  So I could see Google trying to get in, you know, compete with that market a little bit.
[20:22.480 --> 20:28.540]  Well, you see, it wouldn't work here because you'd be telling the neighborhood that nuclear missiles are on the way, not the person inside the house.
[20:35.120 --> 20:37.300]  That gained access to their camera and its speakers.
[20:39.080 --> 20:40.600]  And the lions are not alone.
[20:41.620 --> 20:44.140]  Not the animal, the, the, the people we're talking about.
[20:44.240 --> 20:44.900]  It's spelled a Y.
[20:45.280 --> 20:45.860]  It's a Y, yes.
[20:46.040 --> 20:46.220]  L-Y.
[20:46.540 --> 20:50.740]  Reports from across the country indicate a growing problem of hackers accessing...
[20:50.740 --> 20:53.260]  How many stories have begun like this over the decades?
[20:53.660 --> 20:56.160]  Growing problem of hackers accessing something.
[20:56.220 --> 20:56.800]  Is it growing?
[20:57.060 --> 20:58.040]  I mean, maybe it's not.
[20:58.320 --> 21:04.720]  It's, it's a growing problem of technology that is stupid and allows people to do things that they really shouldn't be able to do.
[21:05.220 --> 21:10.360]  But yeah, a growing problem of hackers accessing the Wi-Fi-enabled cameras from Nest and other similar companies.
[21:10.440 --> 21:20.320]  Now, in December, a Houston couple rushed to their infant's room when a hacker began screaming over the family's Nest camera baby monitor that he was going to kidnap their child.
[21:20.840 --> 21:21.320]  Okay.
[21:23.300 --> 21:27.080]  I don't know what kind of person would be inside the room yelling that.
[21:27.220 --> 21:29.440]  It's just, it's, it's stupid.
[21:29.680 --> 21:30.820]  It's, these are stupid pranks.
[21:30.820 --> 21:44.960]  The same month, a benevolent Canadian hacker, because there are no other kind, a benevolent Canadian hacker began speaking to a Nest camera user in Arizona, warning him that his system was ripe for hacking, and telling him how to protect it.
[21:45.860 --> 21:46.840]  Isn't that nice?
[21:47.560 --> 21:47.880]  Yeah.
[21:47.880 --> 21:53.000]  Getting, getting security advice from your connected devices that have been compromised.
[21:53.800 --> 22:05.440]  I think the only thing that's growing is the amount of this tech, like amount of the attack surface, as it were, is growing, but not at all the people exploiting it.
[22:05.580 --> 22:11.960]  There's just more opportunities for that, and that's leading to these kinds of incidents, I would say.
[22:11.960 --> 22:25.540]  Yeah, in this world of what's known as the Internet of Things, which is also describable as computers in your house you don't have control over, these, basically every one of these devices, whether they're an appliance or a security camera or what have you,
[22:25.720 --> 22:33.460]  at their heart, they're very probably just a stripped down computer, possibly running Linux, which, with some open face toward the Internet.
[22:33.460 --> 22:44.440]  And what that means is people can get in there, like they could with any other computer, and do things, and install things that maybe weren't supposed to be on there, and do things that they're not supposed to be able to do, and it's a vector.
[22:44.440 --> 22:45.100]  I think it's great.
[22:45.360 --> 22:46.580]  No, I'm serious.
[22:46.740 --> 22:47.400]  I think it's great.
[22:47.480 --> 22:51.980]  I think it's great fun, and people need to experiment and share their information.
[22:52.220 --> 23:03.380]  Don't do stupid things, like scare people, but definitely do mischief, and show people that they're running insecure systems, and that they're open to all kinds of intrusion.
[23:04.060 --> 23:13.360]  Because if you don't do that, it's still going to be just as open and the people who really know what they're doing are going to do something bad and they might not ever be found out.
[23:13.500 --> 23:14.920]  These are growing pains.
[23:15.040 --> 23:16.080]  This is new technology.
[23:16.340 --> 23:22.160]  People don't realize, hey, by putting this baby monitor here, the whole world can see my damn baby in the crib.
[23:22.760 --> 23:24.540]  They need to know they're doing that.
[23:24.680 --> 23:27.320]  They need to know someone has to tell them and it's not going to be the company.
[23:27.680 --> 23:41.440]  I feel like this doesn't even qualify as a hack because it's just like an issue of password reuse where they just found their password related to their email address in a password dump and they just typed that.
[23:41.580 --> 23:42.740]  They didn't have two-factor authentication.
[23:42.900 --> 23:45.700]  Or it was a default of some sort with a router.
[23:45.840 --> 23:47.000]  They were just able to get in that way.
[23:47.080 --> 23:48.560]  There's all kinds of ways you can do it.
[23:48.740 --> 23:49.860]  Hey, share the methods.
[23:50.040 --> 23:53.680]  Let people know how you're able to get in and share the information.
[23:53.680 --> 24:00.560]  It's something that we should be not treating as some kind of criminal offense, but as something that we need to learn.
[24:00.800 --> 24:07.580]  The default password thing has been a lot of fun ever since the 90s when people had answering machines that you could control remotely with touch tones.
[24:07.840 --> 24:13.380]  And each one of those answering machines was a specific brand that probably had the same default passcode as all the rest of that brand.
[24:13.600 --> 24:18.080]  And people were passing around lists of brands of answering machines and what the default codes were.
[24:18.160 --> 24:20.480]  And you could just call people randomly and take control of their answer phones.
[24:20.480 --> 24:24.020]  Default codes are the bane of existence for so many people.
[24:24.920 --> 24:26.720]  Yeah, answering machines are a great example.
[24:26.860 --> 24:30.420]  There are some you couldn't change, some that had one-digit passwords.
[24:30.760 --> 24:37.220]  And even if you had three-digit passwords, hey, there was a method where you didn't have to enter all three digits.
[24:37.280 --> 24:38.940]  You just had to get three in a row.
[24:38.940 --> 24:43.820]  So you could just enter a string of numbers that would eventually cover all possible three-digit combinations.
[24:44.100 --> 24:51.600]  And it would be a lot less than entering three digits, however many times you had to do that to get the 1,000 or so possibilities.
[24:52.120 --> 24:55.800]  And, you know, that same technique was used in longer passwords.
[24:56.000 --> 24:58.960]  It makes things crackable when you think they're not.
[24:59.700 --> 25:00.820]  We need to know these things.
[25:00.940 --> 25:03.820]  We need to know that these are the risks that we have.
[25:03.820 --> 25:10.460]  If we put a smart doorbell in our home, well, okay, what else are we giving up by doing that?
[25:10.700 --> 25:17.820]  You know, the ring people, they're now trying to get their customers to share their doorbell info with their neighbors.
[25:18.320 --> 25:20.640]  So, you know, it's all in the interest of safety.
[25:21.340 --> 25:22.700]  Who's ringing your neighbor's bell?
[25:22.840 --> 25:23.640]  Maybe that's an intruder.
[25:23.740 --> 25:25.240]  Maybe that's somebody that shouldn't be in the neighborhood.
[25:25.460 --> 25:30.520]  Why not share who's coming to your door with your neighbor so you all are on the same page?
[25:30.520 --> 25:32.500]  And if you don't do that, what are you hiding?
[25:32.880 --> 25:37.340]  You know, all of a sudden there's suspicion for people who simply want to maintain their privacy.
[25:37.900 --> 25:43.820]  So, you know, there's all kinds of social and technological things that we're learning as we develop this.
[25:43.940 --> 25:46.700]  But the one thing we should not be doing is keeping it quiet.
[25:48.240 --> 25:55.380]  That's a really good point because the social pressure of marketing like that is, you know, all your neighbors have this ring thing and they want you to join in.
[25:55.380 --> 25:59.140]  And why aren't you being a good neighbor by helping them out and joining in on this thing?
[25:59.280 --> 26:02.240]  Why do you want to keep your normal analog ding-dong on your door?
[26:04.220 --> 26:05.500]  Yeah, what's wrong with that exactly?
[26:05.660 --> 26:07.320]  Why does the doorbell not work?
[26:07.500 --> 26:09.640]  Why is that something that we need to upgrade?
[26:09.840 --> 26:10.960]  And I mean, yeah, I get it.
[26:11.060 --> 26:19.940]  Being able to see who's knocking on your door from, you know, you're in a dry Tortuga somewhere and you're able to tell somebody to get away from you or, you know, that a package has been delivered.
[26:19.940 --> 26:27.940]  But surely there are better ways of doing that than opening it up so that people can access and do all kinds of mischievous things.
[26:28.680 --> 26:30.460]  And if you didn't know that, well, now you do.
[26:30.620 --> 26:31.720]  Now you don't have an excuse.
[26:31.940 --> 26:35.560]  I want to just finish reading the scenario, though, because it really is kind of classic.
[26:35.680 --> 26:37.280]  They say the incident began around 2 p.m.
[26:40.080 --> 26:43.520]  Basically, she anticipated an Amber Alert warning.
[26:43.520 --> 26:44.780]  We talked about that last week.
[26:45.280 --> 26:52.600]  But the detailed nuclear war message claimed to be from civil defense and provided details down to the fact President Trump had been taken to a secure facility.
[26:52.900 --> 26:54.360]  Not much in the way of details.
[26:54.560 --> 27:00.060]  You know, anybody putting out a gag nuclear alert knows that that's probably what's going to be happening.
[27:00.500 --> 27:06.600]  As the frightening message repeated a second time, Lyon's young son asked, Mommy, is there a missile coming?
[27:08.380 --> 27:10.840]  And is this before or after he crawled under the rug?
[27:10.980 --> 27:14.360]  As she tried to calm her son, Lyon's mind raced.
[27:14.360 --> 27:19.300]  My first thought was that, which car are we going to get into now?
[27:19.460 --> 27:20.960]  Because the Bay Area...
[27:20.960 --> 27:21.900]  Aha, the Bay Area.
[27:22.060 --> 27:23.740]  Okay, so she's in the San Francisco area.
[27:23.860 --> 27:24.900]  Now I know where Orinda is.
[27:25.020 --> 27:25.360]  Thank you.
[27:26.300 --> 27:29.320]  Because the Bay Area would be such an obvious target.
[27:29.520 --> 27:32.280]  I was thinking, we can stop at our friends in Napa.
[27:32.560 --> 27:36.440]  But maybe we could stop at In-N-Out Burger on the way and, you know, get some snacks.
[27:36.660 --> 27:39.000]  And then basically, that way we're not arriving empty-handed.
[27:39.000 --> 27:43.360]  And we could simply, you know, hang out and not tell our friends about the crisis.
[27:43.360 --> 27:46.720]  And maybe just sort of kick them out of their own house and take over...
[27:46.720 --> 27:47.620]  No, I'm sorry.
[27:47.800 --> 27:49.300]  I'm getting off script here.
[27:49.480 --> 27:51.300]  I was disappointed I didn't have much cash on me.
[27:51.320 --> 27:52.680]  I was going right down the rabbit hole.
[27:53.480 --> 27:53.880]  Yeah.
[27:54.180 --> 27:57.940]  She switched to CNN, other news stations, but found no discussion of a nuclear threat.
[27:58.720 --> 28:00.140]  That's what she called 9-1-1.
[28:01.140 --> 28:02.600]  How does that conversation go?
[28:02.760 --> 28:12.600]  Why is there no talk of a nuclear threat on CNN when my doorbell is telling me, or my nest is telling me, I'm sorry, that missiles are on the way.
[28:12.900 --> 28:15.000]  Dispatcher told her she had heard of no other calls.
[28:15.120 --> 28:20.840]  Lines didn't even realize the pair of surveillance cameras the family installed a couple of years ago for home security had speakers.
[28:20.940 --> 28:24.480]  How do people not know that their cameras have speakers?
[28:24.860 --> 28:29.320]  You know, it must be advertised as something that you can use.
[28:29.500 --> 28:31.360]  Also, they put these gadgets up two years ago.
[28:31.560 --> 28:33.940]  I wonder how often they've updated the firmware since then.
[28:33.940 --> 28:36.940]  Or how often someone else has been updating it for them.
[28:37.480 --> 28:39.920]  The couple began to get more and more suspicious.
[28:40.200 --> 28:43.780]  Boy, they're not the swiftest bunch on the block, are they?
[28:44.460 --> 28:49.280]  Eventually, they Googled nest and hack, but found nothing about a nuclear attack.
[28:49.700 --> 28:50.580]  Okay, you know what?
[28:50.600 --> 28:52.860]  You don't need to find something specifically about the nuclear attack.
[28:53.100 --> 28:56.320]  The fact that it can be hacked should tell you what someone could possibly do.
[28:57.360 --> 28:59.300]  And as we've mentioned, nest is owned by Google.
[28:59.480 --> 29:08.020]  I think the reason that people aren't aware that they have these extra features is the precise target market that this product is aimed at.
[29:08.200 --> 29:13.620]  And that's people who just really want a simple way to get a security camera into their house.
[29:13.780 --> 29:25.340]  But I think one important distinction to remember, and it kind of goes along with what Rob's saying about updating, is that most of this is packaging, and that the hardware is meant to be somewhat disposable.
[29:25.340 --> 29:33.680]  They're not going to update it frequently and maintain it in quite the way you would expect from a personal computer.
[29:33.880 --> 29:40.180]  These are what amount to embedded computers that, yeah, as Rob was indicating, don't have as much support.
[29:40.400 --> 29:47.000]  And I think that we need to remember that, you know, surveillance has been around for a while.
[29:47.700 --> 29:50.820]  When you get these systems, it's not CCTV.
[29:51.620 --> 29:55.220]  Closed circuit was not ever something that was online, necessarily.
[29:55.220 --> 30:01.840]  It was on site, maybe, in a secure room or a monitoring room with technicians watching it.
[30:01.940 --> 30:02.640]  But we've evolved.
[30:02.800 --> 30:03.780]  We've changed the technology.
[30:03.860 --> 30:05.840]  So it's not nearly as simple.
[30:05.840 --> 30:18.760]  And by virtue of being IP-based and available online and stuff, you're changing the dynamic of it and doing so with, as we've said, sort of unsecure hardware.
[30:18.940 --> 30:21.780]  And the irony is that people are setting this up themselves.
[30:21.780 --> 30:25.120]  They're setting up their own surveillance and becoming victims of it.
[30:25.400 --> 30:28.720]  It's not some outside force doing this other than marketing.
[30:29.300 --> 30:32.620]  And they're setting things up with almost no security whatsoever.
[30:32.940 --> 30:35.940]  And, as you can see, they're becoming the victims of it.
[30:37.000 --> 30:44.740]  The sad thing here is that Google's Nest and Amazon's product are actually some of the least bad when it comes to security.
[30:45.040 --> 30:49.780]  They don't usually rely on, like, open ports on your router or anything like that.
[30:50.200 --> 31:00.180]  Whereas, like, if there's tons of anything you buy, like, off the shelf, like, especially in past years, it would have even worse security.
[31:00.800 --> 31:04.300]  So if you buy, like, something second-rate, they don't usually get software updates.
[31:04.560 --> 31:07.180]  But Google and Amazon's products generally do.
[31:07.420 --> 31:11.840]  I think this story is confirmed that it was just a password-to-use issue.
[31:12.300 --> 31:17.360]  But so I think, like, the sad thing is that they went with the company that is more secure.
[31:19.360 --> 31:26.040]  Well, according to Ms. Lyons, they have a responsibility to let customers know if this is happening.
[31:26.220 --> 31:28.640]  I want to let other people know this can happen to them.
[31:28.960 --> 31:29.520]  Well, you know what?
[31:29.580 --> 31:30.920]  That's pretty much what you do.
[31:31.100 --> 31:33.160]  You let people know this is the possibility.
[31:33.300 --> 31:41.680]  And I think it's up to the customer or whoever is installing the system to make sure it's done well, it's secure, that you know what the risks are.
[31:42.940 --> 31:50.580]  Whenever you install something that is connected to the open Internet and you have a weak password, you know, open to all kinds of mischief.
[31:50.940 --> 31:56.020]  And, you know, if somebody can get in in that particular way, they will at some point.
[31:56.020 --> 31:56.520]  They will.
[31:57.480 --> 32:07.220]  The recycling of passwords for multiple online services is even more troubling now with the prevalence of in-home Wi-Fi-enabled devices that provide a hacker access inside someone's property.
[32:07.280 --> 32:10.920]  It's really annoying that hackers are always the ones being pointed at here.
[32:10.920 --> 32:13.080]  Again, you don't have to be a hacker to do this.
[32:13.260 --> 32:14.200]  Anyone can do this.
[32:14.320 --> 32:15.260]  It's not hard.
[32:15.480 --> 32:19.320]  And I think that's the thing that maybe these companies don't point out enough.
[32:19.460 --> 32:25.820]  They make it sound like only really super intelligent people with too much time in their hands can do this.
[32:25.880 --> 32:26.560]  They're the threat.
[32:26.960 --> 32:27.960]  And no, they're not the threat.
[32:28.080 --> 32:28.760]  They're the answer.
[32:28.940 --> 32:33.460]  They're the ones that will explain to you how you set it up wrong and how you should set it up properly.
[32:34.260 --> 32:39.980]  If even one of the services is compromised, the attacker can use the password to gain access to everything else.
[32:41.700 --> 32:47.460]  I would definitely recommend using a password manager to use different passwords for all services, enabling two-factor authentication.
[32:47.780 --> 32:48.940]  And again, that's good.
[32:49.160 --> 32:51.980]  You know, two-factor authentication are ways around that as well.
[32:52.080 --> 32:53.100]  We won't get into that right now.
[32:53.200 --> 32:56.200]  But, you know, password managers, okay, that's a great idea.
[32:56.200 --> 32:56.760]  But you know what?
[32:56.780 --> 33:03.120]  If your password manager falls into the wrong hands, if you don't keep that secure, then all of your passwords are in someone's hands now.
[33:03.120 --> 33:08.440]  Now, it's also kind of a lazy way out because you're not memorizing anything yourself.
[33:08.900 --> 33:12.040]  It's pretty simple to remember passwords.
[33:12.160 --> 33:16.900]  There's all kinds of tricks you can use to make something secure that you don't have to write down.
[33:17.600 --> 33:21.340]  By having a list somewhere, you leave it lying around the wrong place.
[33:21.860 --> 33:24.820]  Then all of a sudden, that falls into the wrong hands, and you're really compromised.
[33:25.480 --> 33:34.060]  Anyway, Ms. Lyons said her husband killed the speaker and microphone capabilities on the cameras, changed the passwords, and added two-factor authentication.
[33:34.320 --> 33:34.940]  Well, good on him.
[33:35.120 --> 33:35.380]  Okay.
[33:36.100 --> 33:40.880]  Hours after the stressful incident, Lyons shared her experience on a local family Facebook group.
[33:40.880 --> 33:41.560]  Here we go.
[33:41.560 --> 33:51.820]  And other Nest users shared their recent experiences, including one man who said he got hacked last week after he heard dogs barking and the sound of laughter in his garage and learned it came from his Nest camera.
[33:53.460 --> 33:53.980]  My...
[33:54.560 --> 33:55.080]  Wow.
[33:55.280 --> 33:55.500]  Okay.
[33:55.700 --> 33:58.060]  I don't even know what to say about that.
[33:58.140 --> 33:58.900]  Dogs barking.
[33:59.540 --> 34:09.380]  If you have an experience with your Nest cameras or didn't know they had cameras or your ring doorbell or whatever else, let us know.
[34:09.520 --> 34:11.240]  OTH at 2600.com.
[34:11.560 --> 34:12.240]  Here's another story.
[34:12.300 --> 34:22.900]  The largest collection of breached data in history has been discovered, comprising more than 770 million email addresses and passwords posted to a popular hacking forum in mid-December.
[34:23.120 --> 34:32.000]  The 87-gigabyte data dump was discovered by the security researcher Troy Hunt, who runs the Have I Been Pwned Breach Notification Service.
[34:32.420 --> 34:43.340]  Hunt, who called the upload collection number one, said it was probably made up of many different individual data breaches from literally thousands of different sources, rather than representing a single hack of a very large service.
[34:43.800 --> 34:47.340]  But the work to piece together previous breaches has resulted in a huge collection.
[34:47.340 --> 35:03.740]  In total, there are 1,160,000,253,228 unique combinations of email addresses and passwords and 21,222,975 unique passwords.
[35:04.000 --> 35:27.900]  Now, while most of the email addresses have appeared in previous breaches shared among, you guessed it, hackers, such as the 360 million MySpace accounts hacked in 2008 or the 164 million LinkedIn accounts, hacked in 2016, the researchers said there's something somewhere on the order of 140 million email addresses in this breach that has never been seen before.
[35:28.120 --> 35:34.320]  And those email addresses could come from one large unreported data breach, many smaller ones, or a combination of both.
[35:34.920 --> 35:50.640]  Security experts said the discovery of collection number one, it's like archaeologists finding a collection here, underscored the need for consumers to use, again, password managers, such as 1Password or LastPass, to store a random, unique password for every service they use.
[35:50.640 --> 35:56.080]  It is quite a feat not to have had an email address or other personal information breached over the past decade.
[35:57.580 --> 36:02.140]  If you're one of those people who think it won't happen to you, then it probably already has.
[36:02.880 --> 36:04.480]  Do you guys think it hasn't happened to you?
[36:05.080 --> 36:06.360]  Oh, I know it has.
[36:06.360 --> 36:07.640]  Then it probably already has, right?
[36:07.780 --> 36:08.040]  Have I been pwned?
[36:08.460 --> 36:08.600]  Yeah.
[36:08.600 --> 36:09.120]  Have you been?
[36:09.240 --> 36:09.620]  Tell us.
[36:10.020 --> 36:15.680]  No, just an old email address that I had about 100 years ago ended up in one of these breaches.
[36:15.900 --> 36:19.960]  And how it works, the site is at HaveIBeenPwned, which is P-W-N-E-D.
[36:20.120 --> 36:22.000]  It's the word owned but spelled with a P instead of an O.
[36:22.120 --> 36:24.120]  So HaveIBeenPwned.com.
[36:24.220 --> 36:26.620]  And it was started by a security researcher called Troy Hunt.
[36:26.920 --> 36:34.740]  And what it does is this person basically collects all these data breaches, all the info found in them.
[36:34.940 --> 36:39.460]  And then you can put in your email address or your username that you might have used.
[36:39.620 --> 36:42.320]  And the site will check to see if it appears in any of these breaches.
[36:42.480 --> 36:42.580]  Right.
[36:42.600 --> 36:44.540]  But that doesn't mean that they have the password to the account.
[36:44.600 --> 36:45.260]  I've seen that site.
[36:45.440 --> 36:47.060]  And you can enter an email address.
[36:47.200 --> 36:50.940]  And if it's just listed somewhere, it shows up as pwned.
[36:51.020 --> 36:53.240]  And it's not necessarily pwned.
[36:53.240 --> 36:53.700]  This is true.
[36:53.800 --> 36:57.860]  But it will tell you if that data is available, like what breach it was in.
[36:58.000 --> 37:04.100]  And you can look into it and see what it might have been, like if it was from such and such a site or such and such a service.
[37:04.100 --> 37:08.060]  And then you can go into that and see what else you might have used that account information for.
[37:08.140 --> 37:08.840]  So it's a useful thing.
[37:09.520 --> 37:09.840]  Yeah.
[37:09.860 --> 37:17.780]  Some of these password managers actually have a feature where they take hashes of the password from HaveIBeenPwned and hashes of your passwords and see if they match.
[37:17.860 --> 37:20.220]  And then it'll alert you if you've reused one of these passwords.
[37:20.220 --> 37:27.320]  And some people, I've gotten many panicked emails from people who say that, hey, I got an email and it's showing my password.
[37:27.480 --> 37:28.400]  How do they know my password?
[37:28.600 --> 37:45.680]  Well, yeah, you know, if you use the same password on a number of services, and even one of those is compromised, you will recognize your password, it'll be sent to you, and you had better be using a different password for different services, or you very well could be at risk of being compromised on a variety of levels.
[37:46.540 --> 37:57.920]  Many times people use a password on a system that they forget about, such as, I don't want to use Hotmail as the obvious example, or MySpace, or something like that, but a lot of people abandon the accounts.
[37:58.580 --> 38:00.420]  And they don't abandon the password, though.
[38:00.500 --> 38:08.760]  They use the same password or variety, and then they see that password coming to an email account that they have somewhere else that they actually are checking, and they panic.
[38:08.920 --> 38:10.100]  They don't know what's been compromised.
[38:10.840 --> 38:19.800]  So that's why you don't use the same password on everything, because if you do, you won't know the extent of it, and it'll probably be a lot worse than it needs to be.
[38:20.520 --> 38:25.640]  And if you'd like to send us your passwords, it's O-T-H at 2600.com.
[38:25.720 --> 38:29.060]  Yeah, send us your password, and we will analyze them and tell you if it's a good password or not.
[38:29.060 --> 38:36.920]  If it's not a good password, we'll give you a suggestion on better passwords, and if it's, you know, if it's a good password, we'll say, well done.
[38:37.860 --> 38:42.660]  And if your password fits within 280 characters, you can tweet it at HackerRadioShow.
[38:42.660 --> 38:43.480]  You can do that, yes.
[38:44.000 --> 38:44.760]  HackerRadioShow on Twitter.
[38:44.960 --> 38:46.200]  Just send us your passwords there.
[38:46.520 --> 38:51.360]  One thing I would add is that, you know, don't necessarily use any one method.
[38:52.460 --> 38:58.740]  So if there was like a mad rush of people running to use password managers just because we're talking about it tonight, maybe use it for a couple.
[38:59.020 --> 38:59.440]  Try it out.
[38:59.520 --> 39:00.280]  See if it works for you.
[39:00.280 --> 39:16.300]  But there's no reason to put all of your passwords into one solution, maybe reserved for a couple or just for certain types of stuff that you want to have handy and that kind of thing.
[39:16.400 --> 39:18.940]  It doesn't have to be that you only do it one way.
[39:18.940 --> 39:24.300]  Are we ever going to get to the stage where bad passwords are not the problem?
[39:24.520 --> 39:40.800]  Because, you know, I've been doing this for a while now, and ever since I got in trouble with the good folks over at Telenet for using their system with their default password of the letter A, I've been trying to get people to use better passwords, longer passwords,
[39:40.940 --> 39:41.400]  more random.
[39:41.400 --> 39:45.260]  And it just seems like we're having the same conversations now in 2019.
[39:45.720 --> 39:47.040]  Use better passwords.
[39:47.400 --> 39:48.420]  Use different passwords.
[39:49.380 --> 39:51.140]  That's the first step.
[39:51.260 --> 39:54.240]  And oftentimes, that's good enough.
[39:54.500 --> 39:58.840]  There are other ways of accessing systems and compromising security, yes.
[39:59.040 --> 40:02.720]  But the password continues to be a problem for so many.
[40:02.940 --> 40:05.540]  Yeah, I think that's why we had to abandon the whole concept of passwords.
[40:05.720 --> 40:07.860]  Like we're moving towards a multi-factor authentication.
[40:08.460 --> 40:10.120]  But it's happened so slowly.
[40:10.120 --> 40:14.300]  Like we always see with, like, even adopting, like, chip and pin in the U.S.
[40:14.360 --> 40:15.600]  and how long that took.
[40:15.740 --> 40:16.720]  It's just, there's so much.
[40:17.760 --> 40:19.700]  And now they don't even use that anymore overseas.
[40:19.700 --> 40:21.260]  They use RFID now.
[40:21.360 --> 40:24.520]  So we're always way behind on the trends.
[40:24.860 --> 40:30.260]  Yeah, the long and the short of it is that the weak link in security is the same thing it's always been.
[40:30.320 --> 40:33.080]  It's been the person, the user, the human.
[40:33.080 --> 40:39.500]  And as long as it's the human picking the human's passwords, you're going to have easy-to-guess ones.
[40:39.500 --> 40:40.600]  You're going to have repeated ones.
[40:40.700 --> 40:43.040]  You're going to have all those sort of foibles of the human mind.
[40:43.980 --> 40:46.220]  So, yeah, that's something to think about.
[40:46.320 --> 40:52.800]  Do you want to be one of the easier humans to do password jiggery-pokery with?
[40:52.800 --> 40:55.660]  Or do you want to take some extra steps to protect yourself?
[40:55.660 --> 41:00.980]  Okay, in other news of hacker evil in the world, this is a good one.
[41:01.960 --> 41:06.240]  A very popular WordPress plugin was hacked over the weekend after a hacker...
[41:06.240 --> 41:08.320]  Did I mention the hackers are responsible?
[41:08.520 --> 41:16.420]  Okay, after a hacker defaced its website and sent a mass message to all its customers revealing the existence of supposed unpatched security holes.
[41:16.720 --> 41:24.960]  In a follow-up mass email, the plugin's developers blamed the hack on a former employee who became a hacker and also defaced their website with a hack.
[41:25.660 --> 41:38.800]  The plugin in question is WPML, or WP Multilinguals is what that stands for, the most popular WordPress plugin for translating and serving WordPress sites in multiple languages.
[41:39.240 --> 41:52.540]  Now, according to its website, WPML has over 600,000 paying customers and is one of the very few WordPress plugins that is so reputable that it doesn't need to advertise itself with a free version on the official WordPress.org plugins repository.
[41:52.540 --> 42:00.280]  But on Saturday, the plugin faced its first major security incident since its launch in 2007.
[42:00.880 --> 42:08.460]  The attacker, which the WPML team claims is a former employee, sent out a mass email to all the plugin's customers.
[42:08.480 --> 42:15.340]  And I imagine they made use of the language translation capability so everybody could understand.
[42:15.340 --> 42:23.560]  In the email, the attacker claimed he was a security researcher who reported several vulnerabilities to the WPML team, which were ignored.
[42:24.420 --> 42:28.520]  The email urged customers to check their sites for possible compromises.
[42:28.700 --> 42:35.140]  But the WPML team vehemently disputed these claims, both on Twitter and in a follow-up mass email.
[42:35.380 --> 42:44.140]  The WPML team said the hacker is a former employee who left a backdoor on its official website and used it to gain access to its server and its customer database.
[42:44.960 --> 42:47.340]  WPML claims the hacker used the...
[42:47.340 --> 42:48.820]  Why did you claim the employee?
[42:48.960 --> 42:49.660]  The ex-employee.
[42:49.760 --> 42:50.380]  That's what it was.
[42:50.520 --> 42:56.780]  The ex-employee used the email addresses and customer names he took from the website's database to send the mass email.
[42:56.800 --> 43:01.900]  But he also used the backdoor to deface its website, leaving the email's text as a blog post on its site.
[43:02.620 --> 43:08.620]  Developers said the former employee didn't get access to financial information as they don't store those kind of details.
[43:08.940 --> 43:16.940]  But they didn't rule out that he could now log into customers' WPML.org accounts as a result of compromising the site's database.
[43:17.500 --> 43:26.680]  The company says it's now rebuilding its server from scratch to remove the backdoor and resetting all customer account passwords as a precaution.
[43:27.060 --> 43:36.620]  The WPML team also said the hacker didn't gain access to the source code of its official plug-in and did not push a malicious version to customers' sites.
[43:36.620 --> 43:39.820]  The company and its management weren't available for additional questions regarding the incident.
[43:39.820 --> 43:44.340]  It's unclear if they reported the employee to authorities at the time of writing.
[43:45.000 --> 43:50.220]  If the company's claim is true, there is little chance of the former employee escaping jail time.
[43:50.500 --> 43:52.200]  That's from a ZDNet story.
[43:52.420 --> 43:56.980]  And boy, the harm an angry employee, angry ex-employee can do.
[43:57.160 --> 43:58.340]  That's something to consider.
[43:59.360 --> 44:10.140]  Yeah, that seems like another pretty universal factor of the human animal is there will always be ones that you don't have total control over and if you're trusting them with all your apples or whatever.
[44:10.720 --> 44:15.340]  But yeah, it also, I think, speaks to, I mean, the whole WordPress scene out there.
[44:15.420 --> 44:19.800]  WordPress is an open source website building and blogging and whatever software.
[44:20.040 --> 44:21.380]  It's a content management system.
[44:21.580 --> 44:26.480]  There are tons of plug-ins out there that themselves are open source and freely auditable and downloadable.
[44:26.480 --> 44:30.400]  Well, WPML is one of those plug-ins that is not an open product.
[44:30.400 --> 44:32.720]  It's a proprietary thing with closed source.
[44:32.900 --> 44:37.140]  And maybe somebody could have caught such an exploit before it was used.
[44:37.220 --> 44:41.820]  The thing that annoyed me most about that story, though, is how that person just turned into a hacker when they became angry.
[44:42.180 --> 44:43.400]  They were an employee.
[44:43.480 --> 44:44.760]  They had access to all this information.
[44:44.980 --> 44:46.360]  They became malicious.
[44:46.980 --> 44:49.680]  And that's the moment that they turned into a hacker.
[44:49.680 --> 44:59.820]  It didn't take any hacking ability for them to access code that they had access to, you know, or to deface a website that they had permission to do, permission, you know, from the computer and not from the humans.
[45:00.560 --> 45:07.340]  So, you know, we need to really think about how we use that word because hacking is a positive thing.
[45:07.560 --> 45:08.700]  That is how you build.
[45:08.800 --> 45:09.540]  That is how you learn.
[45:09.880 --> 45:11.880]  That's how you share information with other people.
[45:11.880 --> 45:25.100]  And when it's only used to define the negative, the destructive, the malicious, it really, you know, it colors things in a very bad way for people that are still learning about this.
[45:25.240 --> 45:28.660]  And whenever they hear the word hacker, they will think negative thoughts.
[45:28.820 --> 45:31.920]  If they're called a hacker, they won't see it as a good thing.
[45:32.420 --> 45:37.100]  And we all lose as a result of not learning and spreading information.
[45:37.500 --> 45:41.820]  I think it's also upsetting that the company tried to blame this all on the one former employee.
[45:42.120 --> 45:44.740]  I'm like, yes, in the immediate sense, it was his fault.
[45:44.840 --> 45:48.360]  But it's also somewhat their fault for like not following info.
[45:48.520 --> 45:55.100]  Like you have like the principle of leader's privilege for trying to minimize the amount of what each user can do on their own behalf.
[45:55.280 --> 45:57.620]  And they clearly didn't do that in this case.
[45:57.820 --> 45:58.860]  If you have a...
[45:58.860 --> 46:01.000]  If you sell like a home, you change the locks.
[46:01.220 --> 46:02.520]  They didn't do that in this case.
[46:02.940 --> 46:04.220]  Well, it depends how...
[46:04.220 --> 46:10.380]  When the person got angry, if they became angry while they were still an employee, depends how much access they had.
[46:10.380 --> 46:14.720]  If they were, you know, one of the main programmers, I don't have the details as far as that goes.
[46:14.880 --> 46:19.500]  But there are certain things that if somebody high up enough gets really angry, they can cause a lot of damage.
[46:20.080 --> 46:22.060]  And I'm not sure what the details were.
[46:22.160 --> 46:28.240]  But in many cases, yes, there are gaping holes left open that former employees can still access.
[46:28.240 --> 46:33.220]  And the story failed to mention that WordPress itself, as an open source product, is built and maintained by hackers.
[46:33.600 --> 46:37.140]  I know one or two hackers on the staff of WordPress who work on this.
[46:37.220 --> 46:40.260]  But, you know, the efforts of hackers build this whole infrastructure out there.
[46:40.380 --> 46:41.480]  And that's not mentioned.
[46:41.800 --> 46:43.800]  One person does something bad, and all of a sudden, they're the hacker.
[46:44.220 --> 46:44.520]  Exactly.
[46:44.660 --> 46:48.680]  Well, let's think of all the services that we use every day that were built by hackers.
[46:49.060 --> 46:50.780]  You know, I'm referring to WordPress, Google.
[46:50.780 --> 46:54.120]  You know, hackers are behind all of it.
[46:54.400 --> 46:59.280]  And, you know, demonizing what they do is not a healthy thing.
[46:59.540 --> 47:04.540]  Hey, we have open phone lines if you want to join the conversation in the few minutes we have left.
[47:04.960 --> 47:07.760]  212-209-2877 is our phone number.
[47:08.000 --> 47:09.380]  Rob, I wanted to ask you about this story.
[47:09.480 --> 47:15.680]  I know you posted this to the list about a lawmaker who wants to tax porn users to help build the border wall.
[47:16.100 --> 47:18.100]  Yeah, that's where else but Arizona.
[47:18.100 --> 47:23.820]  A GOP lawmaker has a novel idea for how the border wall with Mexico can be built.
[47:24.900 --> 47:25.940]  Every Amazon...
[47:25.940 --> 47:26.800]  Every Arizona...
[47:26.800 --> 47:26.960]  I'm sorry.
[47:27.220 --> 47:35.160]  Every Arizonan who wants to access pornographic material on an electronic device will be taxed.
[47:35.280 --> 47:39.080]  Unfortunately, this is one of the stories...
[47:39.080 --> 47:42.240]  I printed this from the Arizona Mirror, but it cut off the end of every line.
[47:42.240 --> 47:44.280]  So I can only predict what it might be saying.
[47:45.520 --> 47:48.720]  But do you remember anything about this story when you posted it?
[47:49.120 --> 47:55.220]  Yeah, it's pretty entertaining, actually, from the standpoint of it's patently ridiculous what this person is suggesting.
[47:55.660 --> 48:02.320]  This is Republican Representative Gail Griffin from Hereford, has introduced House Bill 2444.
[48:02.720 --> 48:13.320]  And apparently it's the responsibility, according to this person, of the distributors of devices that allow access to the internet to install software to make the offending material not viewable.
[48:13.940 --> 48:21.820]  And to remove this blocking software, a person would have to pay the state $20, and that money would go toward the nutcase and charges border wall.
[48:22.500 --> 48:23.100]  Wow.
[48:23.320 --> 48:34.160]  So I just like how they zeroed in on people viewing porn as the ones who should be paying for a wall between the United States and Mexico.
[48:35.480 --> 48:37.780]  I'm trying to see where those two things connect.
[48:38.620 --> 48:39.220]  You know?
[48:39.440 --> 48:46.660]  And I guess you have to go to a Republican representative in Arizona to really make those connections light up.
[48:46.760 --> 48:47.920]  But I'm not seeing it.
[48:48.080 --> 48:48.220]  Yeah.
[48:48.300 --> 48:51.660]  And the fact of this depends on so many things not being...
[48:51.660 --> 48:53.800]  I mean, so many things being true, which aren't.
[48:53.900 --> 48:57.400]  I mean, you can't have software that will just automatically filter porn.
[48:57.620 --> 48:58.640]  We're seeing that with Tumblr.
[48:58.800 --> 49:00.120]  You can if you don't know how it works.
[49:00.120 --> 49:01.660]  Yeah, you can if you don't know how it works.
[49:01.700 --> 49:02.380]  You can if you're dumb.
[49:02.580 --> 49:04.060]  You can do anything if you don't know how it works.
[49:04.340 --> 49:13.820]  But yeah, we're seeing that with Tumblr, where they decided their whole service was going to filter out porn, and instead it was filtering out the announcement that they were filtering out porn and other innocuous things.
[49:14.620 --> 49:19.840]  And this also, like, you can't dictate the operating system that's on everyone's devices.
[49:19.900 --> 49:27.180]  Somebody installs an open source operating system, and it has no responsibility to sway to the laws of Arizona.
[49:27.180 --> 49:36.220]  I'm curious, you have to self-report if you're viewing porn offline, because this is ostensibly just for people streaming porn online.
[49:36.860 --> 49:38.040]  And I mean, how do you police...
[49:38.040 --> 49:41.360]  You need to get to Arizona and help them out, because clearly they haven't thought of a lot of this.
[49:42.180 --> 49:45.800]  Well, we have a phone call to welcome to the airwaves.
[49:45.800 --> 49:46.800]  Good evening, you're on Off The Hook.
[49:47.520 --> 49:48.100]  Yeah, hi.
[49:48.320 --> 49:48.980]  Hi, what's on your mind?
[49:49.700 --> 49:50.880]  Well, a couple of things.
[49:51.040 --> 49:52.480]  I have a camera in my apartment.
[49:52.680 --> 49:54.220]  It's not on the TV, but it's closed.
[49:54.220 --> 49:58.400]  That's just in case somebody enters the apartment when I'm out.
[49:58.760 --> 50:00.200]  And that's what the...
[50:00.200 --> 50:08.580]  But it's not a Nest camera, and it's not connected to the internet, which is what most, for example, Best Buy and Micro Center sell.
[50:08.580 --> 50:14.160]  They usually only sell cameras that you can use to connect from your smartphone.
[50:14.700 --> 50:17.340]  Anyway, what I didn't want that, but it took me a while.
[50:17.360 --> 50:38.180]  I found a CCTV store that would sell me a camera and a DVR, where I just connected the camera to the DVR, and I can check the DVR when I come home if I think somebody was in the apartment or it's out of place, you know, something was out of place, so I can check the DVR.
[50:38.580 --> 50:47.240]  Every other place sells a set of cameras, four, six, eight cameras, whatever it is, and you can put them all over and you can check them with your cell phone.
[50:47.400 --> 50:55.620]  But as you said, connecting it to your Wi-Fi is definitely not a secure thing, especially with the passwords that people use today.
[50:56.520 --> 51:12.760]  So now going to the passwords, what I do for passwords is you take a phrase and you take the first letter out of each word of the phrase and maybe make it a capital or change it to a number.
[51:12.900 --> 51:19.660]  For example, people make E's as threes and maybe T's as a seven and things like that.
[51:19.660 --> 51:21.020]  Then you have a password.
[51:21.260 --> 51:30.560]  Now, in order not to make the same password for every place, let's say you have one for Chase Bank, so you put a C in front of it or Chase in front of it, and then the password.
[51:30.700 --> 51:33.760]  And let's say you had another one for Social Security.
[51:33.820 --> 51:40.100]  You could put SSA, Social Security Administration, in front of it, and then the same password.
[51:40.100 --> 51:43.160]  But that way you can remember the password in every place.
[51:43.220 --> 51:47.900]  You don't need a password manager, which is another stupid idea, in my opinion.
[51:48.120 --> 51:48.400]  I agree.
[51:48.620 --> 51:55.560]  So, for example, if you take King Floyd's song, Dark Side of the Room, and you take the D...
[51:55.560 --> 51:56.740]  Dark Side of the Room?
[51:57.340 --> 51:58.520]  Yeah, Dark Side of the Room.
[51:58.560 --> 51:59.480]  You know that song, right?
[52:00.220 --> 52:01.480]  Well, yeah, okay.
[52:01.480 --> 52:03.820]  I like your version, but sure, absolutely.
[52:04.880 --> 52:06.560]  Okay, I'm only kidding.
[52:06.760 --> 52:09.800]  I know it's Dark Side of the Room, but, you know, it's a good joke.
[52:09.800 --> 52:11.940]  I hope you know there's no Dark Side of the Moon, really.
[52:12.380 --> 52:13.460]  Yeah, it's Dark... anyway.
[52:13.660 --> 52:16.820]  But you can trick people like that, you know, the Dark Side of the Room.
[52:17.140 --> 52:17.240]  Yeah.
[52:17.240 --> 52:21.340]  Anyway, that's my thoughts on the cameras and the passwords.
[52:21.460 --> 52:22.060]  Well, thank you.
[52:22.160 --> 52:25.480]  It's most enlightening, and it's something that I think we could all learn from.
[52:25.640 --> 52:26.700]  And thank you for your call.
[52:26.860 --> 52:29.320]  Our phone number, 212-209-2877.
[52:29.660 --> 52:34.980]  To extend on that a little bit, though, the story that I just read about the Arizona lawmaker.
[52:35.720 --> 52:37.540]  Okay, so here's an example.
[52:37.540 --> 52:40.940]  I could say, my password is in this story.
[52:41.100 --> 52:44.100]  And if I remember, let's say instead of a story, it's a book.
[52:44.180 --> 52:45.040]  You know where the book is.
[52:45.160 --> 52:47.700]  You know what the first sentence in, say, the third chapter is.
[52:47.820 --> 52:50.420]  And let's say that the sentence is what I read here.
[52:50.600 --> 52:54.480]  A GOP lawmaker has a novel idea for how a border wall with Mexico...
[52:54.480 --> 52:56.080]  Okay, well, let's go up to that point.
[52:56.240 --> 52:58.880]  We simply use the first letter of every word.
[52:58.880 --> 53:03.840]  A-G-L-H-A-N-I-F-H-A-B-W.
[53:04.880 --> 53:05.960]  Two W's in a row.
[53:06.160 --> 53:06.560]  M.
[53:06.660 --> 53:07.440]  That's your password.
[53:08.140 --> 53:15.480]  Now, you know, it's not something you'd like it to be able to remember, but you know how to look it up in a way nobody else will be able to do.
[53:15.580 --> 53:20.780]  You'll just remember, hey, chapter three of the book on my shelf, you know, next to the window.
[53:21.440 --> 53:29.760]  And that is a way of remembering a password, you know, without having to remember something complex, without having to write it down a way that nobody else is ever going to figure out.
[53:29.880 --> 53:30.300]  Go ahead, Voltaire.
[53:30.480 --> 53:31.440]  I think that works for you.
[53:31.480 --> 53:42.460]  You should do that for, like, your most important few accounts, but it gets to a point where you can't memorize all of them, especially if you're changing the words, letters, numbers.
[53:42.780 --> 53:45.180]  So that's where a password manager comes in.
[53:45.680 --> 53:47.360]  Well, it depends how many passwords you have.
[53:47.360 --> 53:51.160]  You know, for people that don't have a whole lot of passwords, something like that might be effective.
[53:51.360 --> 53:53.780]  Or maybe that's the password for your password manager.
[53:53.780 --> 53:55.640]  I don't know if you choose to use something like that.
[53:55.880 --> 53:58.020]  The thing is, you don't have to be writing them down.
[53:58.020 --> 54:00.160]  You don't have to use something that isn't secure.
[54:00.520 --> 54:04.380]  And you don't have to use the same thing for everything that you have passwords for.
[54:04.660 --> 54:05.600]  Let's take another phone call.
[54:05.660 --> 54:05.940]  Good evening.
[54:06.100 --> 54:06.740]  You're on Off The Hook.
[54:07.520 --> 54:07.880]  Hi.
[54:07.880 --> 54:17.680]  I don't know whether you were just joking that you didn't understand why the lawmaker chose that manner of funding the law.
[54:17.920 --> 54:21.280]  But in case you weren't, I can explain it to you.
[54:21.420 --> 54:22.180]  Please go ahead.
[54:24.280 --> 54:29.620]  That lawmaker probably doesn't approve of porn.
[54:29.620 --> 54:40.420]  And at the very minimum, considers watching porn as an optional activity that, if you can't afford the tax, just don't watch.
[54:40.700 --> 54:47.480]  So it's a way of only taxing people who have the $20 to throw away.
[54:47.480 --> 54:52.240]  See, I saw it in a different way, because I assume the lawmaker wanted the wall to be built.
[54:52.380 --> 54:58.380]  So that lawmaker is, in fact, encouraging more and more people to watch porn, so that a big wall can be built.
[55:00.800 --> 55:07.920]  Well, people are already doing GoFundMe stuff to throw money at the wall.
[55:08.180 --> 55:13.400]  So anyone who wants to fund the wall doesn't have to start watching porn.
[55:14.000 --> 55:17.080]  Well, we can think about this all night.
[55:17.080 --> 55:18.440]  Rob, there's something funny about this.
[55:18.520 --> 55:20.500]  You think this is a comical story?
[55:20.620 --> 55:21.380]  This is very serious.
[55:21.600 --> 55:26.360]  We're talking about border walls and the pornography industry and technology.
[55:26.600 --> 55:27.720]  These are important issues.
[55:28.160 --> 55:29.760]  Yeah, this is totally serious.
[55:29.860 --> 55:30.740]  I don't know what came up for me.
[55:30.820 --> 55:31.080]  All right.
[55:31.240 --> 55:32.480]  Well, don't try to compose yourself.
[55:32.600 --> 55:33.680]  Thank you for that call, by the way.
[55:34.180 --> 55:38.200]  Again, our email address is OTH at 2600.com.
[55:38.420 --> 55:41.720]  We welcome your comments and feedback on all sorts of things.
[55:42.920 --> 55:47.600]  Okay, we're going to be fading out right now because it's pretty much time for us to go.
[55:48.380 --> 55:49.480]  Rob, you picked the outro song.
[55:49.600 --> 55:50.500]  I'm trying to figure out why.
[55:50.840 --> 55:52.120]  It's a song about bananas.
[55:52.140 --> 55:54.520]  Why are we playing a song about bananas as our outro today?
[55:54.700 --> 56:04.400]  Because through January, I'm still on this public domain kick where on our New Year's episode, we explain that public domain day means we all own stuff that was published in 1923.
[56:04.400 --> 56:10.000]  And there was a very important hit song released in 1923 that I'd like to share with the listeners now.
[56:10.780 --> 56:14.440]  And yeah, as a student of high culture, I appreciate what you're about to hear.
[56:15.100 --> 56:15.760]  Okay, wow.
[56:15.840 --> 56:16.300]  I didn't know that.
[56:16.400 --> 56:17.580]  That's 1923.
[56:17.620 --> 56:19.780]  That's the year because it's how many years ago?
[56:19.980 --> 56:21.080]  It's almost 100.
[56:21.760 --> 56:22.160]  Nearly.
[56:23.000 --> 56:23.320]  Wow.
[56:23.380 --> 56:24.200]  It's too long, but still.
[56:24.580 --> 56:24.900]  All right.
[56:25.040 --> 56:32.660]  Well, then that means people can listen to this song and spread it around as much as they want, copy it, sing over it.
[56:32.780 --> 56:33.540]  It belongs to us all.
[56:33.540 --> 56:34.680]  It belongs to everybody.
[56:35.120 --> 56:38.460]  And maybe one day other songs will belong to us as well.
[56:38.480 --> 56:41.520]  And we won't have to wait 100 years to gain rights to it.
[56:41.940 --> 56:42.160]  All right.
[56:42.260 --> 56:43.760]  We'll be back again next week.
[56:44.380 --> 56:48.180]  And you can write to us again, OTH at 2600.com.
[56:48.680 --> 56:50.360]  For Off the Hook, Emmanuel, have a good night.
[57:01.540 --> 57:03.460]  There's a fruit store on our street.
[57:03.640 --> 57:04.920]  It's run by a Greek.
[57:05.540 --> 57:09.020]  And he keeps good things to eat, but you should hear him speak.
[57:09.020 --> 57:13.080]  When you ask him anything, he never answers no.
[57:13.340 --> 57:15.480]  He just yeses you to death.
[57:15.680 --> 57:18.160]  And as he takes your dough, he tells you yes.
[57:18.160 --> 57:20.100]  Of course, we have no bananas.
[57:20.100 --> 57:24.240]  We have no bananas today.
[57:25.040 --> 57:32.580]  We have spring beans and onions, cobaltages and scallions and all kinds of fruit and say.
[57:33.100 --> 57:41.040]  We have an old-fashioned tomato, a long-island potato.
[57:41.940 --> 57:45.220]  But yes, we have no bananas.
[57:46.040 --> 57:49.120]  We have no bananas today.
[57:54.860 --> 58:00.860]  Business got so good with him, he wrote home to say, Send me Pete, Nick, and Jim.
[58:00.860 --> 58:02.360]  I need help right away.
[58:02.880 --> 58:06.480]  When he got them in the store, there was fun, you bet.
[58:07.080 --> 58:11.680]  Someone asked for sparrowgrass, And then the whole quartet all answered yes.
[58:11.980 --> 58:13.940]  We have no bananas.
[58:14.660 --> 58:17.860]  We have no bananas today.
[58:19.260 --> 58:23.220]  Just try those cocoanuts, those walnuts and donuts.
[58:23.620 --> 58:26.360]  There ain't any nuts like they.
[58:26.980 --> 58:34.860]  We'll sell you two kinds of red herring, dark brown and ball-bearing.
[58:34.860 --> 58:38.740]  But yes, we have no bananas.
[58:39.680 --> 58:42.700]  We have no bananas today.
[58:57.180 --> 59:00.160]  Lately, I've been off my nuts.
[59:00.480 --> 59:02.760]  I keep hearing nothing.
[59:03.100 --> 59:07.460]  But yes, we have no bananas.
[59:09.340 --> 59:15.640]  And I'd like to find a guy who composes that lullaby.
[59:16.240 --> 59:19.880]  Yes, we have no bananas.
[59:21.560 --> 59:33.900]  I wish that I could go to a cabaret or show where someone wouldn't come along and sing that doggone song.
[59:33.900 --> 59:35.660]  I've got the yes.
[59:36.080 --> 59:38.680]  We have no banana blues.
[59:39.160 --> 59:40.640]  I've got the blues.
[59:41.620 --> 59:46.820]  And when I hear it, oh, how I fear it, it's just like hearing bad news.
[59:47.460 --> 59:49.960]  It hasn't got a bit of sense.
[59:50.480 --> 59:53.160]  And I go wild when they commence.
[59:54.280 --> 59:55.040]  Bananas!
[59:55.800 --> 59:56.560]  Bananas!
[59:57.000 --> 01:00:03.660]  I wish I could break up a million pianos day by day and week by week.
[01:00:03.920 --> 01:00:04.440]  It's yes.
[01:00:04.620 --> 01:00:06.020]  We have no bananas.
[01:00:07.080 --> 01:00:10.780]  Every time that Greeks meet Greeks, it's yes.
[01:00:11.060 --> 01:00:12.360]  We have no bananas.
[01:00:13.180 --> 01:00:16.360]  B, A, N, A, N, A.
[01:00:16.740 --> 01:00:17.980]  Yes, no.
[01:00:18.280 --> 01:00:19.380]  Take them away.
[01:00:19.540 --> 01:00:20.320]  I've got the yes.
[01:00:20.660 --> 01:00:24.740]  We have no banana blues today.
[01:00:25.860 --> 01:00:28.720]  Yes, we have no bananas.
[01:00:28.720 --> 01:00:29.020]  Bananas!
[01:00:29.780 --> 01:00:32.400]  We have no bananas today.
[01:00:33.160 --> 01:00:33.680]  Stop!
[01:00:33.960 --> 01:00:36.520]  You fellas better get off the corner or I'll call the cop.
[01:00:36.640 --> 01:00:37.660]  Why, you've got me crazy.
[01:00:37.660 --> 01:00:39.400]  I can't stand it any longer.
[01:00:39.800 --> 01:00:41.240]  What's the matter with you, miss?
[01:00:41.420 --> 01:00:43.140]  I'll tell you what's the matter with me.
[01:00:43.660 --> 01:00:45.080]  I've got the yes.
[01:00:45.780 --> 01:00:48.200]  We have no banana blues.
[01:00:48.780 --> 01:00:50.040]  I've got the blues.
[01:00:50.880 --> 01:00:54.100]  And when I hear it, Oh, now I fear it.
[01:00:54.300 --> 01:00:56.380]  It's just like hearing mad news.
[01:00:56.980 --> 01:00:59.340]  It hasn't got a bit of sense.
[01:00:59.780 --> 01:01:02.600]  And I go wild when they commence.
[01:01:03.740 --> 01:01:04.420]  Bananas!
[01:01:05.320 --> 01:01:06.000]  Bananas!
[01:01:06.600 --> 01:01:09.800]  I wish I could break up a million pianos.
[01:01:10.080 --> 01:01:12.840]  Day by day and week by week.
[01:01:12.840 --> 01:01:13.560]  It's yes.
[01:01:13.860 --> 01:01:15.220]  We have no bananas.
[01:01:16.300 --> 01:01:19.060]  Every time that Greeks meet Greek.
[01:01:19.320 --> 01:01:19.920]  It's yes.
[01:01:20.140 --> 01:01:21.500]  We got no bananas.
[01:01:22.520 --> 01:01:23.040]  B.
[01:01:23.300 --> 01:01:23.860]  Hey.
[01:01:24.440 --> 01:01:25.400]  N-A-N-A.
[01:01:25.740 --> 01:01:26.280]  Yes.
[01:01:26.520 --> 01:01:27.040]  No.
[01:01:27.300 --> 01:01:28.440]  Take them away.
[01:01:28.680 --> 01:01:29.420]  I've got the yes.
[01:01:29.820 --> 01:01:33.800]  We have no banana blues today.
[01:01:33.800 --> 01:01:34.000]  Day.
[01:01:35.040 --> 01:01:35.480]  Day.