[00:00.000 --> 00:03.940]  You helped create this monster and now you're profiting off of him.
[00:04.180 --> 00:05.500]  We're with you, Michelle Wolfe.
[00:05.600 --> 00:09.280]  But if corporate media has got you down, maybe you should try WBAI.
[00:09.380 --> 00:15.860]  We're listener-supported community radio, questioning the mainstream narratives trumpeted by the news profiteers.
[00:15.960 --> 00:18.820]  But in order for this whole thing to work, we need your help.
[00:19.000 --> 00:29.660]  Please go to give2wbai.org to find out how you can support WBAI or call 516-620-3602.
[00:30.000 --> 00:33.960]  And thanks for supporting Free Speech Radio on WBAI New York.
[00:34.420 --> 00:36.400]  And this is WBAI New York.
[00:36.400 --> 00:37.600]  It's 7 o'clock.
[00:37.660 --> 00:39.140]  Time once again for Off the Hook.
[00:44.230 --> 01:06.080]  The telephone keeps ringing So I ripped it off the wall I cut myself while shaving Now I can't make a call We couldn't get much worse Put a billy bump for the best, expect the worst I hope that's understood One day to leave now
[02:24.890 --> 02:30.520]  And it's a very good evening out there because it's snowing and that's what we like to see.
[02:31.280 --> 02:33.050]  It's another edition of Off the Hook.
[02:33.230 --> 02:35.430]  Emmanuel Gulsine here with you, joined tonight by Rob T.
[02:35.550 --> 02:35.940]  Firefly.
[02:36.120 --> 02:36.620]  Good evening.
[02:37.170 --> 02:37.650]  Alex.
[02:38.000 --> 02:38.260]  Hello.
[02:38.260 --> 02:39.230]  And Kyle.
[02:39.580 --> 02:40.020]  Howdy.
[02:40.550 --> 02:45.230]  Well, you know, we like to say that miracles are possible in this place and all throughout.
[02:45.640 --> 02:53.350]  Last week, we had a spirited discussion about all sorts of interesting things involving the city, involving corporate America.
[02:54.300 --> 02:55.730]  And it's incredible.
[02:55.880 --> 02:59.580]  A week later, we can come on the air and say that a miracle has indeed occurred.
[02:59.740 --> 03:03.640]  That there is something completely unexpected that none of us thought was going to happen.
[03:03.980 --> 03:09.260]  And of course, what I'm referring to is the fact that there are still strand packages available for you to pledge for.
[03:09.910 --> 03:12.960]  Somehow, somehow, not all of them were taken last week.
[03:13.520 --> 03:14.880]  Now, what does that mean?
[03:15.040 --> 03:37.400]  It means that the city's oldest and biggest, one of the oldest, one of the biggest bookstores, one of the most renowned throughout the entire world, that particular bookstore has been featured on this radio program a number of times concerning the landmark status that it's fighting because of the restrictions,
[03:38.360 --> 03:43.580]  and possible strangulation that that kind of a classification would cause.
[03:44.140 --> 03:48.940]  We are offering to listeners a once...
[03:48.940 --> 03:53.200]  I want to say once-in-a-lifetime, but, you know, I can't really say that because we offered it last week and we still have some left.
[03:53.220 --> 03:56.840]  But they won't be around for much longer, I can tell you that.
[03:56.840 --> 04:00.920]  For a pledge of $100, you will get what we call the Strand Package.
[04:01.400 --> 04:12.420]  It includes an autographed copy of Cory Doctorow's new book, Radicalized, which he will be signing at the Strand, and you will get a signed copy of his new book.
[04:13.000 --> 04:17.040]  You'll also get the iconic canvas tote bag from the Strand.
[04:17.120 --> 04:24.350]  Usually, people, you know, have to go to the Strand and buy a lot of things to get one of those, including buying the bag.
[04:25.360 --> 04:28.180]  You'll get it as part of this pledge for $100.
[04:29.540 --> 04:30.620]  212... no, that's not the number.
[04:31.120 --> 04:32.680]  516... I'm sorry, I made the wrong sign here.
[04:32.850 --> 04:37.350]  516-620-3602 is the phone number to call.
[04:37.480 --> 04:39.400]  516-620-3602.
[04:39.500 --> 04:44.170]  I suggest calling quickly because I don't know how long these things are going to last.
[04:44.670 --> 04:49.520]  In addition, I wasn't finished describing what was being made available with the Strand package.
[04:49.520 --> 04:58.520]  You'll get an assortment of all kinds of Strand memorabilia, including buttons, stickers, postcards, and my favorite, socks.
[04:58.880 --> 04:59.240]  Yes.
[04:59.860 --> 05:02.710]  You know it's an awesome bookstore when they have socks.
[05:02.900 --> 05:13.780]  So you'll get the Strand package, an amazing variety of material that shows that you favor literacy and understand the importance of not only bookstores, but radio.
[05:14.180 --> 05:27.500]  And your pledge will help WBAI in this winter fundraiser, which we're in the middle of, and it's fitting that it's snowing outside now because that's what it should do in the winter, and I'm very happy to see that.
[05:27.830 --> 05:32.560]  Please, make us even happier by calling 516-620-3602.
[05:32.560 --> 05:37.180]  You can also, if you're more digital, go to the website, give2wbai.org.
[05:37.220 --> 05:43.620]  Give the number to WBAI.org, and you can pledge for the premium there, I believe.
[05:43.620 --> 05:51.020]  It's called the Strand package, but the quickest way is to call 516-620-3602.
[05:51.440 --> 05:51.820]  Yes.
[05:51.960 --> 05:55.380]  If you're listening live, we can tell you that there are some available now.
[05:55.540 --> 06:00.940]  If you're listening on an MP3 in the mysterious future sometime, we cannot guarantee that you can still get one of these.
[06:01.080 --> 06:05.860]  So call as quick as you can, or go to the website, give2wbai.org, as quick as you can.
[06:05.860 --> 06:12.320]  That number, again, is 516-620-3602 to get the Strand package, is exactly what it's called.
[06:12.480 --> 06:21.560]  And it contains, as we said, an autographed copy of Cory Doctorow's new book, Radicalized, which itself contains four separate sci-fi novellas that are on a common theme.
[06:21.720 --> 06:26.460]  And it will be signed by the author, Cory Doctorow, a well-known sci-fi author, friend of hope, friend of this program.
[06:27.270 --> 06:29.200]  And it will come in a canvas tote bag.
[06:29.320 --> 06:33.000]  That's an iconic part of being a customer of the Strand here in New York City.
[06:33.000 --> 06:38.280]  And it will contain all the Strand swag, the buttons, the stickers, the socks.
[06:38.480 --> 06:45.860]  If you're not familiar with the Strand, maybe some of our out-of-state listeners aren't familiar, the Strand actually has this one big wall that's just of socks.
[06:45.880 --> 06:47.660]  And it's kind of an iconic part of the place.
[06:48.120 --> 06:49.160]  I didn't even know that.
[06:49.260 --> 06:49.940]  Yeah, it does.
[06:50.000 --> 06:57.400]  And you can get their socks with like authors' portraits on them, socks with literary quotes and things like that, and also just other clever things.
[06:57.540 --> 06:59.380]  And so these aren't just any old socks.
[06:59.500 --> 07:00.640]  They will be some fun socks.
[07:00.640 --> 07:11.380]  So call 516-620-3602 or go to give2wbai.org and pick up the Strand package for a pledge of at least $100.
[07:12.130 --> 07:19.640]  And that goes to keeping the lights on and keeping the airwaves thumping with what we've got to offer here at WBAI and at Off the Hook.
[07:19.720 --> 07:27.900]  Despite all the odds, all the naysayers constantly telling us that, you know, radio is dead, reading is dead, books are dead, bookstores are dead.
[07:28.680 --> 07:33.220]  That's just... you never get to the end of the negativity that you face.
[07:33.360 --> 07:53.640]  But what I can tell you, and I think this message should go out to lots and lots of people that are engaged in hopeless causes, is that if you believe in yourself, if you believe that you are doing the right thing, then you are doing the right thing and you should keep it up because you're probably doing a better job than anybody else who believes that it's a hopeless cause.
[07:54.300 --> 08:03.120]  So please, be yourself, believe in yourself, and help out those who also are trying to believe in themselves.
[08:03.240 --> 08:04.320]  And that would be us at the moment.
[08:05.060 --> 08:07.220]  506-620-3602.
[08:07.400 --> 08:09.520]  This radio station has been on the air since 1960.
[08:10.000 --> 08:13.160]  And it's been on the air as a non-commercial station.
[08:13.380 --> 08:28.060]  It was actually on the air before that as a different station, but it became WBAI in 1960 as a donation, the biggest donation of them all, and has managed to survive without any corporate funding whatsoever, without a single commercial, without even having underwriting,
[08:28.220 --> 08:30.680]  which many non-commercial stations already do.
[08:31.060 --> 08:34.700]  We have managed completely on our listeners.
[08:35.050 --> 08:37.380]  And that speaks volumes.
[08:37.570 --> 08:45.240]  And I think there are so many parallels with what The Strand does as well, because it's that fierce support that they get from the community.
[08:45.400 --> 08:58.980]  Our community, though, has expanded to beyond New York City and the tri-state area to the entire world because of streaming, because the fact that you can go to WBAI.org and hear this radio station anywhere.
[08:59.220 --> 09:04.030]  In fact, you can tell Alexis... Well, actually, this is a bit of a sore point, isn't it, Kyle?
[09:04.120 --> 09:08.940]  Because you can't just... For some reason, you can't just tell Alexis, play WBAI.
[09:09.120 --> 09:10.920]  She gets all bureaucratic on you, right?
[09:10.980 --> 09:12.080]  You have to say it a certain way.
[09:12.580 --> 09:23.200]  Yeah, I think the exact syntax goes something like, Alexis, play 99.5 FM WBAI New York.
[09:23.330 --> 09:24.920]  Why in God's name do we have to say all that?
[09:25.440 --> 09:26.620]  Nobody else has to do that.
[09:26.620 --> 09:31.050]  All the other radio stations, you just, you know, play BBC One and it does that immediately.
[09:32.160 --> 09:40.570]  If anybody knows how to fix that or who we have to strangle to get to make that a little bit more friendly for our listeners, we'd love to know.
[09:40.840 --> 09:44.200]  Because that is an important way to listen to the radio station, no matter where you are.
[09:44.740 --> 10:09.340]  Yeah, and we're always curious about these technologies and have pioneered a multitude, a plethora, a variety of platforms and ways for you to enjoy our conversations and contribute and stay current and stay involved in the goings-on of the hacker community as well as the larger Pacifica network here.
[10:09.460 --> 10:18.290]  And we're really excited to offer this really unique gift, this thank you for your pledge tonight, again.
[10:18.290 --> 10:33.250]  And it's a really spectacular item that we want to give to you in exchange for your support, for your continuing pledges, if you want to become a WBAI buddy.
[10:34.510 --> 10:43.180]  And along with those multiple platforms that you can get our show on, you can call in and you can contribute a multitude of ways.
[10:43.180 --> 10:47.700]  One of which I like to talk about is the texting, the SMS donation.
[10:47.700 --> 10:48.080]  Yeah.
[10:48.840 --> 10:50.030]  Basically, it's really easy.
[10:50.220 --> 10:56.510]  You send a text message to the number 41444 and type the letters WBAI.
[10:56.720 --> 10:57.300]  And those aren't...
[10:57.300 --> 10:58.100]  You have to spell it right.
[10:58.340 --> 10:58.480]  Right.
[10:58.640 --> 10:59.750]  Those aren't just any letters.
[10:59.900 --> 11:01.060]  Those are our call sign.
[11:01.270 --> 11:06.530]  Those are our FM frequency modulation band call sign letters.
[11:07.140 --> 11:09.180]  WBAI to the number 41444.
[11:09.440 --> 11:10.960]  It stands for We Beg at Intervals.
[11:11.990 --> 11:12.790]  It is...
[11:12.790 --> 11:15.320]  That's one of the first things I was told when I joined the radio station.
[11:15.320 --> 11:20.290]  I don't know if it's true, but it is one of the derogatory terms for our call letters.
[11:20.300 --> 11:25.660]  We get a lot of them here at WBAI because, you know, we're non-commercial.
[11:25.940 --> 11:30.270]  We're in the commercial band, but that's not how we think.
[11:30.420 --> 11:32.820]  So it's really about the fundraising.
[11:32.820 --> 11:43.040]  It's about being able to accept your tax-deductible donation and continue to speak to you, to reach you and share ideas here on the airwaves.
[11:43.040 --> 11:49.540]  I'm told that actually one of the theories is that it stood for World Broadcasters of America Incorporated.
[11:49.750 --> 11:52.980]  That was the original call sign.
[11:53.060 --> 11:53.060]  Genesis.
[11:53.290 --> 11:53.600]  Yeah.
[11:53.750 --> 11:56.700]  But what's interesting, you know, there are five Pacifica-owned radio stations.
[11:57.220 --> 11:58.100]  Who can name them?
[11:58.660 --> 11:59.580]  You want to try, Alex?
[12:00.880 --> 12:01.290]  WKFP.
[12:01.860 --> 12:02.270]  What?
[12:02.790 --> 12:03.600]  No, no, no.
[12:03.600 --> 12:03.880]  Sorry.
[12:03.980 --> 12:04.620]  What are you talking about?
[12:05.400 --> 12:06.200]  KF something.
[12:06.580 --> 12:06.980]  Wow.
[12:07.120 --> 12:07.840]  Okay, you're really good.
[12:08.060 --> 12:09.960]  KPFA, I believe, is what you're trying to say.
[12:09.960 --> 12:11.700]  I asked Alex to do it, Kyle.
[12:11.700 --> 12:12.010]  That's right.
[12:12.340 --> 12:13.800]  All right, so now you've given him one of the answers.
[12:15.010 --> 12:15.320]  WBAI.
[12:15.540 --> 12:17.100]  Okay, yeah, you got WBAI.
[12:17.300 --> 12:17.620]  Congratulations.
[12:19.060 --> 12:19.380]  KPFA.
[12:19.580 --> 12:19.640]  KPFA.
[12:19.640 --> 12:20.200]  Why don't you go with that?
[12:20.300 --> 12:20.960]  Where are they?
[12:21.060 --> 12:22.700]  They're in Berkeley, San Francisco.
[12:22.750 --> 12:23.640]  Okay, all right, good.
[12:23.840 --> 12:24.900]  Now see if you can get another one.
[12:25.290 --> 12:28.480]  They didn't get W-whatever-it-was down in D.C.
[12:28.700 --> 12:30.040]  Oh, yeah, W-whatever-it-was.
[12:30.060 --> 12:31.250]  Yeah, that's a legal ID.
[12:31.480 --> 12:31.960]  W-whatever-it-was.
[12:32.140 --> 12:32.460]  Boy.
[12:32.750 --> 12:33.420]  That's an acronym.
[12:33.510 --> 12:34.180]  You're a lawyer.
[12:34.530 --> 12:36.620]  You should know how to say things the right way.
[12:36.620 --> 12:37.750]  I know, I'm tired.
[12:38.060 --> 12:40.160]  It's hard for me to think these days.
[12:40.600 --> 12:43.180]  Okay, WPFW is in Washington, D.C.
[12:43.420 --> 12:44.140]  That's what I said.
[12:44.270 --> 12:47.480]  The only other... Yeah, okay, that's the only other W that there is.
[12:47.660 --> 12:48.980]  There's two other Ks.
[12:49.200 --> 12:57.270]  Actually, technically, there's three other Ks because there's KPFB, which is a tiny station that serves people that can't get KPFA.
[12:58.320 --> 13:02.340]  And then there's another station that simulcasts the signal, but that doesn't count either.
[13:02.790 --> 13:08.250]  There's two other stations that are Pacifica-owned stations in two Western cities.
[13:08.250 --> 13:09.540]  Would you like to try and get those?
[13:10.180 --> 13:10.620]  No.
[13:11.010 --> 13:14.060]  I know maybe the region of one.
[13:14.270 --> 13:15.640]  All right, that's good enough.
[13:15.770 --> 13:16.700]  You know, I'll take whatever I can get.
[13:16.770 --> 13:17.820]  Isn't there one in Texas?
[13:18.300 --> 13:19.140]  Yes, there is.
[13:19.420 --> 13:20.660]  There's one or two?
[13:20.820 --> 13:21.820]  Because Texas is big.
[13:21.900 --> 13:22.290]  There's one.
[13:23.320 --> 13:24.340]  They could have 10.
[13:24.560 --> 13:25.680]  They overcompensate a little.
[13:25.680 --> 13:26.800]  But there's just one.
[13:27.080 --> 13:27.530]  I don't think it would hurt.
[13:27.790 --> 13:28.940]  And pick the city.
[13:29.030 --> 13:29.560]  See if you can do that.
[13:30.140 --> 13:30.460]  Austin?
[13:30.660 --> 13:32.080]  Austin would make a lot of sense.
[13:32.250 --> 13:33.980]  It is the Mecca of Texas.
[13:34.160 --> 13:34.680]  But it's not.
[13:34.790 --> 13:35.220]  It's not.
[13:35.360 --> 13:36.340]  You're completely wrong.
[13:36.420 --> 13:37.790]  You're completely wrong there, too.
[13:37.940 --> 13:38.140]  No.
[13:38.710 --> 13:39.530]  You're not right.
[13:40.030 --> 13:40.460]  Houston.
[13:40.640 --> 13:41.340]  Houston is correct.
[13:41.340 --> 13:41.960]  El Paso.
[13:42.220 --> 13:42.880]  Houston is correct.
[13:43.010 --> 13:44.120]  You want to try for the call letters?
[13:44.770 --> 13:46.080]  W-H-O-U.
[13:46.140 --> 13:49.220]  Okay, I already told you that we don't have any Ws.
[13:49.660 --> 13:55.440]  K-H-O-U.
[13:55.440 --> 13:57.660]  Has this gone down a side road?
[13:57.940 --> 14:01.080]  No, it's K-P-F-T, I guess, for Texas.
[14:01.380 --> 14:02.840]  And there's one more station.
[14:03.510 --> 14:04.770]  It's in Los Angeles.
[14:06.030 --> 14:06.420]  Anybody?
[14:08.360 --> 14:09.940]  K-E-L-F is going to rock you.
[14:10.040 --> 14:10.460]  Oh, boy.
[14:10.580 --> 14:10.800]  You know?
[14:11.010 --> 14:13.340]  And we're broadcasters here.
[14:13.480 --> 14:13.980]  So, you know?
[14:14.320 --> 14:16.720]  Okay, K-P-F-K is Los Angeles.
[14:16.720 --> 14:24.180]  Okay, so the point I was trying to make, K-P-F-K, K-P-F-A, K-P-F-T, W-P-F-W, you see sort of a, you know, a pattern there?
[14:24.380 --> 14:27.770]  They're all P-F-something, but not W-B-A-I.
[14:28.250 --> 14:31.340]  Even in the Pacifica network, we stand out as individuals.
[14:31.580 --> 14:32.440]  We're W-B-A-I.
[14:32.540 --> 14:33.800]  We held on to those call letters.
[14:34.220 --> 14:36.160]  Maybe because W-P-F-N was taken.
[14:36.270 --> 14:36.620]  I don't know.
[14:36.750 --> 14:39.540]  But the point is, we are unique no matter where we go.
[14:39.640 --> 14:41.960]  And we still embrace all our affiliations.
[14:42.180 --> 14:44.160]  So that was the point I was trying to make.
[14:44.200 --> 14:45.320]  It should have taken 10 seconds.
[14:45.320 --> 15:01.320]  And the other thing I wanted to say, in addition to the Strand package being still available, against all odds, and at some point, I have to warn people, at some point, you will make the call to 516-620-3602, and the voice on the other end will say, I'm sorry,
[15:01.440 --> 15:06.290]  sir, or I'm sorry, ma'am, or miss, or any number of things they might refer to you as.
[15:07.040 --> 15:08.720]  But we don't have that anymore.
[15:09.720 --> 15:10.790]  That's no longer available.
[15:10.900 --> 15:11.480]  That will happen.
[15:11.660 --> 15:12.440]  That will happen.
[15:12.600 --> 15:14.100]  So we're trying...
[15:14.100 --> 15:14.290]  I'm sorry?
[15:14.380 --> 15:14.920]  Don't say that.
[15:15.320 --> 15:16.180]  Well, it's going to...
[15:16.180 --> 15:17.440]  You have to face reality, Kyle.
[15:17.580 --> 15:18.060]  You have to.
[15:18.600 --> 15:24.940]  At some point, this finite number of premiums, known as a Strand package, will run out.
[15:25.030 --> 15:27.360]  And because it's an amazing deal.
[15:27.660 --> 15:39.420]  $100 for all that, for a Cory Doctorow autographed book that hasn't even come out yet, for the canvas tote bag, for the assortment of memorabilia, like buttons, stickers, postcards, and socks.
[15:39.420 --> 15:43.320]  Yeah, that's not something you can just stroll down the street and get.
[15:43.530 --> 15:56.360]  But, you know, for those people that either face that dilemma or want something else, we also have a limited number of the Electronic Frontier Foundation packages that we offered the previous week.
[15:56.360 --> 15:58.290]  Apparently, we have a few of those left over as well.
[15:58.480 --> 16:02.370]  Also for our $100, same phone number, 516-620-3602.
[16:03.030 --> 16:05.100]  Ask for the Electronic Frontier Foundation package.
[16:05.860 --> 16:10.560]  You'll get a copy of The End of Trust, an autographed copy of Lawrence Lessig's code.
[16:10.840 --> 16:12.100]  Another law is a cyberspace.
[16:12.100 --> 16:15.700]  You'll get an EFF sticker package and an EFF beanie.
[16:16.620 --> 16:18.880]  That's a hat that you put on your head, and it's really cool.
[16:19.270 --> 16:22.530]  Especially for weather like today, where you might want to cover your head.
[16:22.720 --> 16:23.160]  That's right.
[16:23.300 --> 16:28.510]  And, you know, we might see those outside, because people here support the EFF.
[16:28.640 --> 16:34.880]  It's amazing how these communities cross-pollinate, because we just mentioned Cory Doctorow signing at the Strand.
[16:35.030 --> 16:36.920]  Cory Doctorow is with the Electronic Frontier Foundation.
[16:36.920 --> 16:38.270]  It's done lots of work for them.
[16:39.660 --> 16:41.640]  Everybody knows the other organizations.
[16:41.640 --> 16:43.290]  We all support each other however we can.
[16:43.480 --> 16:55.980]  We're asking you to come into that group of people that support each other and become part of the WBAI family by calling 516-620-3602 or visiting give2wbai.org.
[16:56.320 --> 16:57.420]  Now, I have a question.
[16:57.600 --> 17:03.750]  What if I was considering making a donation of about $500, but I was still interested in one of the packages?
[17:04.040 --> 17:04.420]  Yes.
[17:04.540 --> 17:05.720]  Well, we can accommodate that.
[17:05.860 --> 17:11.340]  We can, if you call the number and say whatever number you wish to donate.
[17:11.640 --> 17:17.380]  As long as that number equals or is greater than, and I can write that out, equal followed by the greater than sign.
[17:17.400 --> 17:18.660]  Yeah, it's the carrot that goes...
[17:18.660 --> 17:18.860]  Exactly.
[17:19.100 --> 17:24.680]  As long as that instance occurs, you can get that package.
[17:25.360 --> 17:29.530]  And in fact, I believe you can get five of those packages if you really want, five strand packages or five EFF.
[17:29.580 --> 17:29.820]  Oh, no, no.
[17:29.820 --> 17:34.840]  Or you can get two strand packages, three EFF packages, or any combination thereof.
[17:34.880 --> 17:42.640]  No, I was just interested really in one package for myself, but contributing the other $400 to WBAI.
[17:42.750 --> 17:45.140]  People have done that, and it's amazing.
[17:45.290 --> 17:45.560]  Okay, okay.
[17:45.560 --> 17:46.530]  That is simply incredible.
[17:46.680 --> 17:47.880]  I just want to make sure I could do that.
[17:47.980 --> 17:53.840]  And we want to thank those theoretical people out there who might be considering doing that right now, 516-620-3602.
[17:53.860 --> 17:59.920]  But we also want to thank those people who donate smaller amounts, because it's through you that we get to the bigger amounts.
[18:00.080 --> 18:11.040]  Those $10, $20, $30 pledges, you know, the most you can afford, or the BAI buddies who pledge a certain amount every month, a smaller amount that adds up by the end of the year to a bigger amount.
[18:11.320 --> 18:14.010]  That is how we get to where we are now.
[18:14.180 --> 18:20.770]  And we are a radio station that broadcasts at full power in the middle of the FM dial in New York City.
[18:20.880 --> 18:21.400]  It's impossible.
[18:21.420 --> 18:24.480]  You could not do this if you started from scratch.
[18:24.480 --> 18:25.920]  It's only possible through miracles.
[18:25.920 --> 18:28.210]  We're asking you to become a part of that miracle.
[18:28.560 --> 18:39.100]  Now, for instance, if I wasn't able to afford the strand package that you've offered, but I still wanted to contribute, how much would I have to contribute to become a Pacifica member?
[18:39.100 --> 18:41.750]  I believe $25 is all you have to do.
[18:41.750 --> 18:42.580]  Oh, is it still $25?
[18:42.900 --> 18:43.470]  Yes, that's correct.
[18:43.660 --> 18:44.270]  That has not changed.
[18:44.340 --> 18:45.840]  We have not adjusted that for inflation, have we?
[18:45.920 --> 18:56.140]  Okay, because I seem to remember it was around $25 the last time I contributed, and I'd like to contribute that amount or more again, but not quite as much as this package is.
[18:56.140 --> 18:58.420]  Well, let me hand you my phone, and you can make the phone call.
[18:58.620 --> 19:00.040]  And it's as simple as that.
[19:00.100 --> 19:01.860]  You'll be back in the room in a couple of minutes.
[19:03.190 --> 19:04.840]  Or we can do it after the show, whatever.
[19:05.100 --> 19:06.730]  You know, I don't want to drag you away from this place.
[19:06.820 --> 19:07.620]  But it's simple.
[19:07.620 --> 19:08.190]  It's easy.
[19:08.750 --> 19:10.900]  And it's a very pleasant experience.
[19:11.140 --> 19:12.030]  We've all done it.
[19:12.100 --> 19:14.530]  And it's something that is vital.
[19:15.270 --> 19:21.530]  Yeah, I know people roll their eyes into the back of their heads, which you really shouldn't do, and say, why are they doing this yet again?
[19:21.540 --> 19:23.190]  It's how we stay on the air.
[19:23.450 --> 19:35.510]  It's how a radio station, the equivalent of 50,000 watts in the middle of New York City, is able to stay on the air without any commercials, pay all the bills, and somehow exist from year to year.
[19:35.730 --> 19:37.580]  Like I said, it's impossible, but we do it anyway.
[19:37.820 --> 19:40.080]  You know, I completely forgot the phone number.
[19:40.160 --> 19:41.270]  Could you remind me of that, Emmanuel?
[19:42.190 --> 19:43.030]  Alex, okay, yeah.
[19:43.510 --> 19:46.160]  516-620-3602.
[19:46.820 --> 19:48.300]  I can write it down if you want.
[19:48.560 --> 19:51.600]  516-620-3602.
[19:51.730 --> 19:54.920]  Or you can go to the website, give2wbai.org, the number two.
[19:55.100 --> 19:59.420]  And could you remind me once again, what was the call letters of the station in Houston?
[20:00.470 --> 20:01.990]  KPFT is a Houston station.
[20:02.140 --> 20:03.190]  I don't know why that's relevant now.
[20:03.400 --> 20:03.420]  Got it.
[20:03.580 --> 20:03.790]  Got it.
[20:03.860 --> 20:04.120]  All right.
[20:04.270 --> 20:04.840]  Keeper Houston, no doubt.
[20:05.010 --> 20:05.210]  Yeah.
[20:05.560 --> 20:06.230]  So, you know what?
[20:06.270 --> 20:08.160]  So, we have other things to talk about as well.
[20:08.560 --> 20:13.210]  I did mention that there was a bit of a miracle after last week's show.
[20:13.360 --> 20:18.420]  And yes, the fact that the Strand Premium is still available constitutes that miracle.
[20:18.420 --> 20:20.560]  But there was also something else that happened as well.
[20:20.560 --> 20:21.800]  And I think we all know what it was.
[20:21.920 --> 20:34.730]  We've all heard the story about the Amazon executive who was riding home last Wednesday night and apparently was listening to the radio, hearing a discussion about the bad things that Amazon could bring to the community.
[20:35.640 --> 20:39.010]  And lo and behold, on Thursday, Amazon decided, you know what?
[20:39.160 --> 20:40.800]  We're pulling out of this deal.
[20:41.120 --> 20:42.790]  And that was the end of that.
[20:43.840 --> 20:49.560]  We did have a conversation on the radio last Wednesday night talking about the negative aspects of the Amazon deal.
[20:49.690 --> 20:52.300]  We have no reason to believe that was our radio show that he was listening to.
[20:53.080 --> 20:54.080]  But it's possible.
[20:54.300 --> 20:58.420]  And, you know, I like to think that we were fair and we had a spirited discussion.
[20:59.100 --> 20:59.540]  But...
[20:59.540 --> 21:09.120]  Well, I was a little... I'm surprised and a little disappointed we didn't even get into discussions about heroin abuse and tent cities and so forth.
[21:09.320 --> 21:12.490]  But it's cool to see...
[21:12.490 --> 21:13.860]  What does it have to do with this?
[21:13.860 --> 21:20.730]  No, I was just thinking of other things that we just didn't get to because there were so many downsides to this for New York City and...
[21:20.730 --> 21:25.490]  Are you talking about tent cities in Seattle where that's happening and the tent cities are because of Amazon?
[21:25.510 --> 21:26.040]  That's right.
[21:26.040 --> 21:26.300]  Yeah.
[21:26.400 --> 21:30.840]  We didn't really even have to throw too many hypotheticals out.
[21:31.030 --> 21:36.420]  But as yet, it seems that they backed off and backed off hard.
[21:36.600 --> 21:40.530]  Like, just basically shut down the discussion completely.
[21:40.840 --> 21:42.750]  Let's call it what it is.
[21:42.880 --> 21:45.990]  It was backing off, but it also was punishment.
[21:46.490 --> 21:47.540]  That is what it...
[21:47.540 --> 21:47.920]  It is.
[21:48.270 --> 21:54.580]  They punished New York, at least in their eyes, they punished New York for not towing the line.
[21:54.760 --> 21:58.140]  And that, you know, there's no other way to really look at it because there was no discussion.
[21:58.280 --> 21:59.120]  There was no conversation.
[21:59.120 --> 22:00.120]  There was no negotiating.
[22:00.690 --> 22:02.950]  They got criticized and they said, you know what?
[22:03.140 --> 22:03.640]  Screw this.
[22:03.780 --> 22:04.300]  We're going home.
[22:04.480 --> 22:06.220]  And that's almost literally what happened.
[22:06.340 --> 22:08.950]  As Bill de Blasio, I think he gets it now.
[22:09.060 --> 22:09.780]  Cuomo does not.
[22:10.420 --> 22:11.740]  But de Blasio does.
[22:11.740 --> 22:18.860]  He basically, he said that there were a small number of people who were protesting against this.
[22:18.950 --> 22:20.500]  What Amazon did was prove them right.
[22:20.960 --> 22:22.760]  He didn't even agree at first.
[22:22.920 --> 22:24.690]  And now I think he's seen the light.
[22:25.950 --> 22:33.840]  So a senior executive from Amazon, one of the world's biggest company, found himself last weekend in a showdown with a suburban state senator.
[22:34.190 --> 22:36.300]  That executive was Brian Huseman.
[22:36.400 --> 22:45.950]  He was trying to find out whether New York State Senator Andrea Stewart-Cousins would keep an obscure state board from blocking Amazon's ambitious plans to expand in New York City.
[22:46.120 --> 22:54.540]  It was a second phone call in two days between Mr. Huseman and Ms. Stewart-Cousins, who had just risen to power as Democratic majority leader.
[22:54.640 --> 22:58.690]  And once again, she tried to explain to him the politics of Albany.
[22:58.950 --> 23:08.260]  Ms. Stewart-Cousins said in an interview that she told Mr. Huseman, we just need to move on, indicating that Amazon had to let the approval process run its course.
[23:08.900 --> 23:12.320]  It was not the response that Amazon wanted.
[23:12.900 --> 23:14.300]  That from the New York Times.
[23:14.450 --> 23:21.120]  And I think it kind of underlines just how they assume people are going to bow down to them and give them what they want.
[23:21.120 --> 23:23.720]  And if they don't, they will punish you.
[23:24.280 --> 23:31.640]  Now, a lot of people, and we mentioned this last week as well, a lot of people wanted Amazon to come to Queens, including public housing residents.
[23:31.640 --> 23:38.540]  Apparently, they rallied on Monday, the Monday before when the second poll came out showing broad support around the state for the deal.
[23:38.660 --> 23:39.540]  We mentioned that poll.
[23:39.900 --> 23:47.080]  I expressed some doubt as to its merits because of just the people that we've talked to and the points that have been raised.
[23:47.220 --> 23:49.480]  But, you know, a lot of people did support the deal.
[23:50.520 --> 23:57.100]  Bishop Mitchell Taylor, community leader, said Monday, we're working to make sure that folks from our neighborhood could benefit from those jobs.
[23:57.260 --> 23:58.380]  There are going to be a lot of jobs.
[23:58.880 --> 24:04.360]  He grew up in the Queensbridge Houses, which is the large public housing development in Long Island City.
[24:04.740 --> 24:07.360]  And on the ground, those efforts seemed to be paying off.
[24:07.480 --> 24:10.380]  There were more elected leaders declaring their support for the deal.
[24:11.190 --> 24:15.360]  We started seeing New York loves Amazon buttons on lapels all over the place.
[24:15.620 --> 24:18.820]  It was really, yeah, coming home then.
[24:19.040 --> 24:30.840]  And by Wednesday, a senior Amazon executive in charge of real estate, John Shuttler, arrived from Seattle for a meeting convened by Governor Cuomo in his Manhattan offices between Amazon and the unions.
[24:30.980 --> 24:35.600]  And by the end, the unions and the executives seemed to be making progress towards a resolution.
[24:36.540 --> 24:42.600]  And then he drove home and turned his car radio to 99.5 FM and everything went downhill from there.
[24:42.920 --> 24:44.620]  No, actually, I don't know what happened.
[24:44.740 --> 24:50.840]  But according to Mayor de Blasio, out of nowhere, they took their ball and they went home.
[24:52.080 --> 24:52.620]  Yeah.
[24:53.000 --> 25:00.210]  Now Amazon, and this is something Kyle can speak to, Amazon grew in Seattle for almost two decades with very little civic engagement.
[25:00.560 --> 25:04.080]  Initially, most of its buildings were built by an outside developer.
[25:04.620 --> 25:11.360]  And neither Jeff Bezos nor any Amazon executive attended the groundbreaking ceremony for its headquarters that the mayor and the governor threw over there.
[25:11.360 --> 25:23.080]  And by about 2015, as Amazon was developing its own buildings and with roughly 25,000 employees in Washington state, it started engaging, but slowly, slowly.
[25:23.320 --> 25:31.920]  And as housing costs soared in the booming city, Amazon did not take public positions in debates over how to alleviate the affordability crunch.
[25:32.210 --> 25:38.420]  It largely saw its role as creating high paying jobs and the city's job to accommodate them.
[25:38.710 --> 25:51.480]  And so last year, when Amazon said it might halt its growth locally, if the city approved the tax on large employers to fund homeless services and low income housing, it sent a shockwave through Seattle.
[25:51.660 --> 25:56.560]  The city was not accustomed to the company playing hardball, let alone commenting on politics.
[25:57.780 --> 26:02.450]  So that is another example of how they punish the critics.
[26:02.710 --> 26:11.320]  Now, the company endured hours of attacks on its plans to come to New York and attacks on its business practices, particularly its stance against unions.
[26:12.100 --> 26:17.660]  Protesters heckled, council members forced an Amazon official to declare the company's anti-union stance on the record.
[26:18.460 --> 26:20.980]  And the moment resonated for executives.
[26:21.190 --> 26:26.980]  Amazon was not accustomed to being forced to respond publicly on its policies and operations.
[26:26.980 --> 26:31.690]  And now that they have, you see that they're not really good at it.
[26:32.320 --> 26:34.620]  Yeah, really not practiced.
[26:34.920 --> 26:39.000]  And the disingenuousness of the arrangements.
[26:39.000 --> 26:52.540]  And I think their ability to change and reconfigure their footprint at will is really been overlooked in the discussion.
[26:52.540 --> 27:00.340]  And it was surprising even to hear people so upset that they were leaving that, you know, there was support for these jobs.
[27:00.340 --> 27:11.580]  And it was really kind of sickening to hear how much the the phantom jobs themselves became a tool in conversation.
[27:11.580 --> 27:22.920]  People kept using it as an instrument to articulate a hypothetical or a potential source of employment in the state.
[27:23.190 --> 27:27.710]  But it's not as though it ever existed, right?
[27:27.800 --> 27:28.620]  It was a hypothetical.
[27:28.840 --> 27:29.950]  It was always going to be.
[27:30.210 --> 27:40.920]  And, and I think that people were shaking their heads and saying, well, this see, you, you, anyone who didn't support this, basically turn their head on employing 25,000.
[27:41.020 --> 27:43.620]  It kept going up to was like, oh, 50,000, 70.
[27:43.740 --> 27:46.040]  I was like, at the end of the day, it was like 100,000.
[27:46.040 --> 27:46.950]  No, I'm kidding.
[27:47.000 --> 27:48.820]  Well, no, no, it did go to 75,000.
[27:49.040 --> 27:52.260]  It kept going up to from 50, 25 to now.
[27:52.500 --> 28:00.380]  Yeah, I think because of related jobs, jobs that came about as a result of the other jobs, of course, the fall on effects of having, you need somebody to polish your shoes.
[28:00.540 --> 28:03.880]  If you work at Amazon and that person is now employed, you know, that that's how it works.
[28:04.160 --> 28:04.860]  That's true.
[28:05.040 --> 28:21.020]  And, and I think since a lot of what they do is a service, that's hard to buy, like with an industrial type of like production stuff, I'd have maybe a different perspective on, you know, shops and support businesses.
[28:21.020 --> 28:29.190]  But for this, yeah, I mean, I guess realtors and, and cupcake, you know, cafes and stuff.
[28:29.300 --> 28:39.360]  But the point is, people kept acting as though Amazon is this innocent actor that wouldn't reconfigure.
[28:39.520 --> 28:49.710]  And I really, I like, just as an example, when you're talking about real estate and how they, how they have their footprint in Seattle, I remember many different buildings being occupied and then they weren't.
[28:50.190 --> 29:05.860]  They at one point occupied, occupied an entire, the old veterans hospital or one of the hospitals in Seattle that was being leased and then vacated that building as soon as they had moved into other permanent buildings that they had won through, you know,
[29:05.960 --> 29:07.980]  coercing the city and so on and so forth.
[29:08.540 --> 29:12.880]  And, and their proximity to downtown was a big factor and all of that.
[29:13.040 --> 29:24.040]  But just this belief of their, on their word alone, I think is so silly when you're talking about a company that is, as you said, so fixed on just creating jobs.
[29:24.140 --> 29:25.900]  And that was what their whole thing was about.
[29:26.280 --> 29:31.860]  Well, you know, there are a number of issues and we're not unsympathetic to them.
[29:32.000 --> 29:37.140]  Certainly, you know, if you run a restaurant, that's two blocks down from where Amazon would have been and it's empty now.
[29:37.260 --> 29:40.780]  Of course, uh, you would be saying that that restaurant will be full now.
[29:40.780 --> 29:46.740]  Uh, if, uh, you know, if, if Amazon opens up with its, uh, uh, with its 25,000 jobs in that building.
[29:47.020 --> 29:53.780]  Uh, but, uh, it's, it's, it's more complex than that because that has a ripple effect on the rest of the city in, in so many different ways.
[29:53.780 --> 29:56.820]  The cost of, of housing, uh, real estate, we'll get into that in a moment.
[29:57.220 --> 30:01.000]  Uh, but, uh, from a piece in the Gothamist, I was quoting a New York Times editorial.
[30:01.240 --> 30:11.520]  The Times warns of the consequences of spurning Amazon, quote, if New York gets a reputation for the smugness of its politicians and their hostility to business.
[30:12.020 --> 30:15.560]  And, uh, what Gothamist, uh, says here is hostility to business.
[30:15.710 --> 30:25.820]  A 2015 study by the Upjohn Institute for Employment Research showed that New York was second in the nation to New Mexico and above Louisiana in corporate incentives.
[30:26.000 --> 30:36.520]  Just last week, the Citizens Budget Commission reported that New York gave corporations roughly $10 billion in economic incentives in 2018 alone with very little real oversight.
[30:36.660 --> 30:49.190]  Now, of course, Amazon could have avoided much of the state legislative intrigue and silenced critiques of backroom dealing if they had gone through the city's public land use review process to build their campus, just like any other developer.
[30:49.480 --> 30:56.900]  But, uh, Mayor de Blasio, who pushed for the deal, uh, albeit tepidly, um, said that the company refused to consider it.
[30:57.300 --> 31:04.500]  If I had said, this is Bill de Blasio speaking, if I had said, Hey, Amazon, you're going to have to wait a year and a half for the full land use process.
[31:04.500 --> 31:08.960]  I guarantee, guarantee they would have said, sorry, we're going to Virginia.
[31:08.960 --> 31:09.960]  We're going to Dallas.
[31:10.140 --> 31:11.280]  We're going somewhere else.
[31:11.660 --> 31:18.640]  And then all of you, meaning the media would have said, how on earth did you lose 25,000 to 40,000 jobs?
[31:19.120 --> 31:20.980]  So there's a lack of integrity in this debate.
[31:21.100 --> 31:22.640]  People should come to grips with it.
[31:22.740 --> 31:23.820]  And I do see the point.
[31:23.820 --> 31:25.900]  And that is precisely what I'm kind of getting at.
[31:26.060 --> 31:33.160]  And it's that thing of, well, great, but in, you know, de jure versus de facto, what do they actually do on the ground?
[31:33.320 --> 31:35.840]  And I could totally see why can we not imagine?
[31:36.000 --> 31:49.760]  And I really hope I want to know how hard nose those politicians were about the terms of those alleged jobs, because what is stopping them from, uh, bypassing that process, getting billions in tax breaks, promising the world as far as jobs.
[31:49.900 --> 31:54.820]  And then the first thing you hear a year after they're in or whatever, they've got their foothold and they've anchored themselves.
[31:55.420 --> 31:57.460]  Amazon lays off 7,000 employees.
[31:57.690 --> 31:59.380]  I mean, how is that not a possible headline?
[31:59.500 --> 32:12.580]  And the other thing is, why does New York need a silver bullet single corporation to make it what it needs to be as far as continuing to, uh, support business as a total misnomer in that conversation too.
[32:12.760 --> 32:24.660]  And I, I just, I find a total disconnect between that and the kinds of, um, support and, uh, uh, how do I say nurturing of business creation and entrepreneurship and innovation.
[32:24.920 --> 32:27.640]  Uh, New York is an incredible investment in that.
[32:27.800 --> 32:32.840]  I, I don't see that, uh, they needed any one company to save the day.
[32:32.960 --> 32:36.820]  It just seems foolish on the surface for other obvious reasons too.
[32:36.820 --> 32:52.210]  By the way, if you've, uh, already called our pledge line 516-620-3602 and gotten either the Strand package or the Electronic Frontier Foundation package, uh, we'd like you to join the conversation by calling us here in the studio, 212-209-2877.
[32:52.560 --> 32:55.620]  Tell us what you think of the Amazon deal and what's, what happened to it.
[32:55.860 --> 32:57.690]  Yeah, I, I think you're absolutely right, Kyle.
[32:58.020 --> 32:59.860]  I mean, this is America for God's sakes.
[33:00.080 --> 33:03.280]  I mean, everybody should be subject to the same bureaucracy, right?
[33:03.450 --> 33:06.100]  I mean, this is an egalitarian society supposedly.
[33:06.100 --> 33:17.120]  So if Amazon is given this, this, uh, ridiculous deal to just bypass the bureaucracy that every other business in New York would have to suffer through, that's just not fair.
[33:17.360 --> 33:21.420]  I mean, look, I, I understand that, you know, it's a, it's a major incentive.
[33:21.580 --> 33:22.620]  It's a bargaining chip, et cetera.
[33:22.840 --> 33:40.210]  But really, I, I don't see a lot of good coming out of politicians sycophantically kowtowing to the uber rich and big technology companies like this because Emanuel said it, I don't know, maybe about a month ago or so when we were arguing about the Amazon deal.
[33:40.210 --> 33:42.710]  And I was taking the other side, playing devil, devil's advocate on that.
[33:43.140 --> 33:44.690]  You said, you made a very good point.
[33:44.980 --> 33:49.480]  You said, New York does not need Amazon as much as Amazon needs New York.
[33:49.620 --> 33:52.140]  That's a very simple, obvious fact.
[33:52.500 --> 33:52.900]  True.
[33:53.400 --> 34:03.300]  Um, and sometimes these things go completely wrong and I want to, I'm going to read to you, if you don't mind, uh, a couple of lines from an article that was published on CNN.
[34:04.020 --> 34:15.860]  Um, and since we're playing guessing games tonight, which is the theme of the night, um, I'm going to ask you, Emanuel, and everybody else at the table, you, Rob, you, Kyle, if you can guess who the author is.
[34:16.080 --> 34:16.380]  Okay.
[34:16.420 --> 34:18.820]  We have a full switchboard, so let's, let's do it quickly.
[34:19.080 --> 34:19.160]  Okay.
[34:19.320 --> 34:20.200]  All right, let's do it.
[34:20.660 --> 34:27.840]  Uh, now this is on the subject of politicians kowtowing to the uber rich and going through other deals that went completely wrong.
[34:27.960 --> 34:29.080]  And now I'm going to start the quote.
[34:29.360 --> 34:30.420]  Take Reno, Nevada.
[34:30.660 --> 34:36.260]  Tesla received a $1.4 billion tax incentive to build a battery factory outside of Reno.
[34:36.260 --> 34:44.720]  As public services have been decimated by depleted funding to pay for the incentive and an influx of out-of-state workers, uh, workers caused a spike in living costs.
[34:44.840 --> 34:49.720]  The longtime working class residents have been left behind many descending into poverty and homelessness.
[34:50.370 --> 35:03.260]  Another high profile handout is Foxconn, the huge Taiwanese manufacturer, which picked up more than $4 billion from Wisconsin taxpayers, courtesy of Wisconsin politicians, to build a plant in the southeastern corner of that state.
[35:03.260 --> 35:10.600]  Environmental regulations, a significant expense for any of Foxconn's local competitors, have been waived for the firm's development.
[35:10.780 --> 35:16.980]  And a portion of the 13,000 blue-collar jobs promised will now go to Taiwanese workers instead.
[35:17.450 --> 35:25.480]  This fact is, unless we stop them, local and state politicians will continue to advantage big tech over long-standing local businesses.
[35:25.680 --> 35:31.340]  And without the powerful team of lawyers necessary to take on City Hall, small businesses will continue to suffer.
[35:31.660 --> 35:32.540]  Who said that?
[35:32.640 --> 35:36.100]  This was a CNN piece written, uh, obviously not too long ago.
[35:36.240 --> 35:37.400]  It was obviously you, right?
[35:37.620 --> 35:37.840]  Nope.
[35:38.240 --> 35:38.500]  Okay.
[35:39.360 --> 35:40.780]  I'm just going to start there.
[35:41.100 --> 35:42.580]  Uh, should I give a hint to anybody?
[35:42.700 --> 35:43.280]  Yeah, give a hint.
[35:43.880 --> 35:46.220]  It's somebody who we've had on the show.
[35:47.100 --> 35:48.860]  Uh, we've had a lot of people on the show.
[35:49.120 --> 35:49.800]  Um, okay.
[35:50.040 --> 35:51.420]  We've, um, Cory Doctorow.
[35:51.780 --> 35:52.180]  No.
[35:52.400 --> 35:52.560]  Oh.
[35:52.860 --> 35:53.620]  Well, that was my guess.
[35:53.620 --> 35:53.980]  I'm done.
[35:54.700 --> 35:54.940]  Rob?
[35:55.500 --> 35:55.820]  Hmm.
[35:56.680 --> 35:58.600]  Uh, can, can I get to you again?
[35:58.880 --> 35:59.600]  No, it's not me.
[35:59.960 --> 36:00.240]  Yeah.
[36:00.700 --> 36:01.440]  But thank you though.
[36:01.440 --> 36:02.660]  I think the writing is beautiful.
[36:03.580 --> 36:04.060]  All right.
[36:04.120 --> 36:05.940]  Well, since we only have a limited...
[36:05.940 --> 36:06.120]  More guesses.
[36:06.320 --> 36:06.460]  All right.
[36:06.540 --> 36:08.240]  Well, I'll give you another hint.
[36:08.600 --> 36:14.320]  The first name of the person begins with N and ends with A-N-C-Y.
[36:15.220 --> 36:15.540]  Nancy.
[36:15.820 --> 36:17.200]  We had on last...
[36:17.200 --> 36:17.560]  Okay.
[36:17.640 --> 36:17.900]  That's right.
[36:18.140 --> 36:21.340]  Nancy Bass Wyden, the owner of The Strand, wrote this for CNN Opinion.
[36:21.440 --> 36:21.700]  Owner of The Strand.
[36:21.880 --> 36:22.160]  Okay.
[36:22.480 --> 36:23.320]  And she's right.
[36:23.320 --> 36:24.320]  She's absolutely right.
[36:24.500 --> 36:32.000]  I mean, just another way that we're addressing our listeners' question last week about why it's important to support The Strand and how it's connected with our show.
[36:32.080 --> 36:34.380]  Let's take a phone call because...
[36:34.380 --> 36:35.620]  You make your point, Cobb.
[36:35.680 --> 36:36.680]  I have this call on hold.
[36:36.780 --> 36:36.920]  Go ahead.
[36:37.100 --> 36:37.260]  Yeah.
[36:37.340 --> 36:38.640]  No, I think that's a great point.
[36:38.800 --> 36:56.020]  Just the other examples of the sweetheart deals that have been promised, but the other thing that was sickening and is in the same realm that I was hearing a lot of is this scoffing like, you know, Amazon's the biggest company, you know, just this sort of overconfidence from anchors and stuff.
[36:56.140 --> 37:02.160]  I think I was watching one of the finance channels and stuff talking about this company as though they were gods.
[37:02.160 --> 37:19.340]  And I really want to remind everyone, if you lived through the 90s, if you're familiar with a lot of what's gone on in venture capital and startup culture, you know, there are many a big company has gone away over time.
[37:19.560 --> 37:21.760]  And to look at Amazon as though...
[37:21.860 --> 37:23.360]  They're not all still around, are they?
[37:23.360 --> 37:24.660]  I mean, come on.
[37:25.220 --> 37:32.400]  Tech companies and vaporizing and vanishing and completely shuttering themselves.
[37:32.580 --> 37:33.560]  How many companies?
[37:33.820 --> 37:39.180]  I was thinking about a thought exercise about this, and maybe I'll do a little research or something and come back with some results.
[37:39.300 --> 37:50.920]  But the point is, many a tech company have gone away, so to act as though Amazon is here forever and we must, you know, do whatever they wish anyone to do or you'll be scorned for the ages.
[37:51.140 --> 37:52.360]  I mean, get a grip.
[37:52.620 --> 37:53.700]  They could be...
[37:53.700 --> 38:01.580]  Yeah, but you know, there are examples of cities that have embraced a particular company or technology and have flourished, such as, you know, the auto industry in Detroit.
[38:02.520 --> 38:03.940]  Alright, maybe that's not the best example.
[38:04.040 --> 38:05.080]  That's a terrible example.
[38:05.260 --> 38:05.880]  What was I thinking?
[38:06.040 --> 38:06.820]  Okay, let's take a phone call.
[38:06.920 --> 38:07.180]  Good evening.
[38:07.280 --> 38:08.200]  You're on the radio.
[38:08.300 --> 38:08.600]  Go ahead.
[38:09.720 --> 38:10.400]  Speak up.
[38:10.980 --> 38:11.420]  Hello?
[38:11.640 --> 38:12.140]  Yes, go ahead.
[38:12.340 --> 38:13.180]  You're on the radio.
[38:13.380 --> 38:13.520]  Hi.
[38:14.320 --> 38:14.760]  Hi.
[38:14.940 --> 38:20.960]  I agree with everything that's been said so far about Amazon, that it's better that they're not here.
[38:21.200 --> 38:28.360]  But I really wanted to get an update about the case of the Strand Bookstore versus the Landmarks Preservation Commission.
[38:28.700 --> 38:34.180]  Okay, well I'm glad you asked that because I think Alex is preparing an update for that for our listeners right now.
[38:35.300 --> 38:36.400]  Do you have any other questions?
[38:37.700 --> 38:46.140]  Also, I wanted to point out that Amazon has two bookstores in Manhattan currently and they don't accept cash payment.
[38:46.140 --> 38:53.920]  They only accept debit or credit cards and that's something that I have a personal, strong personal objection to that.
[38:54.040 --> 38:54.780]  That is incredible.
[38:55.220 --> 38:55.660]  The privacy issues.
[38:55.820 --> 38:56.680]  I did not know that.
[38:56.820 --> 38:57.460]  I did not know that.
[38:57.540 --> 39:01.000]  The fact that they even have brick and mortar stores is unbelievable to me.
[39:01.100 --> 39:08.340]  But you can't go in there and buy something anonymously unless you jump through Bitcoin hoops and do something like that if they even take that.
[39:08.580 --> 39:09.800]  But thanks for letting us know.
[39:09.900 --> 39:10.960]  We're going to update on the Strand.
[39:11.080 --> 39:12.260]  Let's take one more phone call first.
[39:16.140 --> 39:16.880]  Tom from the Bronx.
[39:16.880 --> 39:17.680]  Tom from the Bronx.
[39:17.800 --> 39:19.020]  I haven't heard from you in a long time.
[39:19.220 --> 39:20.360]  Yeah, well, I'm here.
[39:20.500 --> 39:22.020]  I listen to you and stuff.
[39:22.180 --> 39:22.760]  Okay, good.
[39:22.900 --> 39:37.800]  But I'd like to say this, that there was an assessment that ten years, with Amazon being here, that the only jobs that would be available are for robots.
[39:37.800 --> 39:39.480]  There was that thought.
[39:41.280 --> 39:43.700]  And in other words, they'd be very automated.
[39:44.140 --> 39:50.660]  Yeah, the only person I know that has ever worked at a fulfillment center is, I think, more or less homeless right now.
[39:51.240 --> 39:51.720]  Wow.
[39:51.880 --> 39:54.720]  Well, anyway, here's a way we can lure them back.
[39:55.140 --> 39:56.060]  Okay, let's listen.
[39:56.060 --> 40:01.520]  Yeah, the way to lure them back is to change the name of the Hudson River to the new Amazon River.
[40:01.720 --> 40:04.540]  We know where the old Amazon River is anyway.
[40:04.540 --> 40:06.640]  And we know what's happening down there as well.
[40:06.800 --> 40:07.360]  Okay, well, thanks.
[40:07.480 --> 40:08.520]  Thanks for the suggestion, Tom.
[40:08.680 --> 40:09.660]  It's always good to hear from you.
[40:10.120 --> 40:14.140]  Now, Alex, you have an update on what happened at the hearing yesterday at the Strand?
[40:14.380 --> 40:15.020]  I do.
[40:15.340 --> 40:16.140]  Or about the Strand?
[40:16.280 --> 40:27.740]  I would like to thank Tom for his comments there, because I'm so annoyed by all of these corporate names for stadiums, you know, like you get the Verizon Center, all this nonsense, you know, we're going to have the Triscuit Stadium or something.
[40:27.840 --> 40:29.420]  It's just, it's out of control.
[40:29.420 --> 40:38.100]  What's crazy is that taxpayers still wind up paying for it, but it's not even named after the city or the team or anything like that.
[40:38.160 --> 40:43.020]  It's named after a corporation that gets all kinds of kickbacks for, you know, for doing what they do.
[40:43.320 --> 40:44.880]  Yeah, it's totally ridiculous.
[40:45.080 --> 40:45.920]  Completely agree.
[40:46.480 --> 40:51.460]  The Amazon, I'm sorry, the Strand update yesterday and Rob T.
[40:51.580 --> 40:53.020]  Firefly was there supporting us.
[40:53.140 --> 41:01.160]  We had a bunch of other WBAI listeners there supporting us and a very sincere and heartfelt thank you to all the listeners that showed up.
[41:01.620 --> 41:04.120]  We really, really need your support.
[41:04.300 --> 41:05.200]  We love that you're there.
[41:05.720 --> 41:11.880]  Let me take a second to give you the phone number to call for our pledge line 516-620-3602.
[41:12.020 --> 41:13.140]  Now back to the Strand update.
[41:13.380 --> 41:14.400]  Ask for the Strand package.
[41:14.400 --> 41:15.460]  Ask for the Strand package.
[41:16.020 --> 41:21.000]  Remember to mention the socks because we're trying to go for a record here for how many times we can say socks in one episode.
[41:21.120 --> 41:23.180]  Don't mention the socks to the person answering the phone.
[41:23.280 --> 41:24.060]  You'll just confuse them.
[41:24.440 --> 41:24.860]  You might.
[41:25.280 --> 41:25.660]  Strand package.
[41:25.860 --> 41:27.200]  Just go for the Strand package.
[41:27.460 --> 41:30.100]  Well, say hello first, then say, I'd like the Strand package.
[41:30.220 --> 41:30.700]  Be nice.
[41:30.860 --> 41:32.620]  I don't even know if you have to be civilized.
[41:32.780 --> 41:33.160]  You do.
[41:33.280 --> 41:34.260]  These are PAI listeners.
[41:34.400 --> 41:35.120]  We're very civilized.
[41:35.200 --> 41:35.500]  All right.
[41:35.660 --> 41:35.920]  Excellent.
[41:36.100 --> 41:36.880]  So back to the update.
[41:37.380 --> 41:38.420]  It was a slugfest.
[41:38.960 --> 41:40.320]  I mean, it really, really was.
[41:40.440 --> 41:41.320]  It was a slugfest.
[41:41.540 --> 41:43.320]  And, you know, the adrenaline was pumping.
[41:43.320 --> 41:45.380]  We had so many supporters there.
[41:45.660 --> 41:47.820]  It was less than standing room only.
[41:48.220 --> 41:53.400]  I mean, there were literally no seats in the entire Landmarks Preservation Commission hearing room.
[41:53.540 --> 41:55.880]  They had to open up the doors, add more seats.
[41:56.040 --> 41:57.120]  There was spillover room.
[41:57.220 --> 41:58.300]  There were people standing up.
[41:58.300 --> 42:01.860]  We had tons of supporters there wearing their red Protect the Strand shirts.
[42:02.120 --> 42:04.840]  And it was a real grassroots effort too.
[42:04.980 --> 42:12.780]  When Nancy got up and she spoke first, you could hear the sincerity in what she was saying and pleading with the commission.
[42:13.260 --> 42:22.760]  And we offered them a very reasonable alternative from landmarking, which was to put an actual preservation easement on the facade of the building, on the outside, the exterior of the building.
[42:22.760 --> 42:27.660]  All that Landmarks wants to register, I'm sorry, to regulate, is the exterior of the building.
[42:27.900 --> 42:30.100]  So we came up with a very workable solution.
[42:30.360 --> 42:38.800]  In fact, we met with the mayor's office and we met with local preservationists and we spoke with national preservationists of fantastic stature.
[42:38.800 --> 42:55.980]  All of whom said, this sounds like a particularly brilliant and workable and viable solution forward, which would be to put this easement on the building, because we don't believe the building is in any danger whatsoever, then a separate organization can audit what happens to the outside of the building,
[42:56.300 --> 43:00.280]  make sure that nothing is going to damage the historical nature of this.
[43:00.800 --> 43:03.180]  Quite frankly, I think it's an unremarkable building.
[43:03.180 --> 43:04.200]  Sorry, Nancy.
[43:04.460 --> 43:12.260]  I mean, it's pretty, but it's certainly, you know, not worthy of landmarking compared to buildings that are two doors down.
[43:12.460 --> 43:13.580]  You know, that's another point.
[43:13.740 --> 43:16.200]  But we put this out there on the table.
[43:16.220 --> 43:17.480]  We got it out to them.
[43:17.640 --> 43:25.260]  We actually had a meeting with Landmarks last Friday, at which point we had said to them, we are going to put this on the table.
[43:25.520 --> 43:29.300]  They told us to focus on that at the particular meeting.
[43:29.300 --> 43:33.100]  And we said, well, look, we will put it out there, but we're not going to pull any punches either.
[43:33.160 --> 43:34.380]  And we really hit them very hard.
[43:34.380 --> 43:51.020]  And I'm glad that we did, because at the end of that hearing, the chair of the LPC, Miss Sarah Carroll, she basically signaled that she's going, that she's very dismissive of this particular plan that we put forward with the preservation easement.
[43:51.020 --> 43:59.280]  And I thought that was, you know, misleading, because of what she said to us during our meeting on Friday, and really disheartening as well.
[43:59.420 --> 44:03.300]  Because not only was she dismissive of this particular plan, they said they'll consider it.
[44:03.400 --> 44:05.440]  So I'm cautiously optimistic that they will...
[44:05.440 --> 44:06.260]  How many of them are there?
[44:07.000 --> 44:09.540]  I think there's about 12 commissioners on the...
[44:09.540 --> 44:13.140]  I don't know exactly what the composition is, but it's pretty much political appointees.
[44:13.140 --> 44:13.780]  Were they all there?
[44:13.780 --> 44:14.700]  Oh, yes.
[44:14.780 --> 44:15.240]  They're all there.
[44:15.380 --> 44:16.380]  They sit quietly.
[44:16.600 --> 44:21.080]  Some of them were doodling, you know, while testimony was happening, things like that.
[44:21.080 --> 44:23.060]  It was quite a sight to behold.
[44:23.360 --> 44:25.000]  Well, none of them were on the phone, hopefully.
[44:25.160 --> 44:27.040]  They were paying attention to what you were saying.
[44:27.280 --> 44:28.120]  We would hope.
[44:28.320 --> 44:28.880]  We would hope.
[44:29.420 --> 44:30.840]  While we breathe, we hope here.
[44:31.140 --> 44:38.040]  But the other thing that I think was really fascinating about this is that we had so many people.
[44:38.040 --> 44:39.200]  We had quite a lineup.
[44:39.360 --> 44:40.000]  We had authors.
[44:40.160 --> 44:40.860]  We had activists.
[44:41.060 --> 44:41.700]  We had Nancy.
[44:41.700 --> 44:43.280]  We had her operations manager.
[44:43.800 --> 44:45.880]  Didn't you have Fran Lebowitz show up at one point?
[44:45.900 --> 44:48.540]  Fran Lebowitz showed up on December 4th at our previous hearing.
[44:48.680 --> 44:49.060]  That's awesome.
[44:49.080 --> 44:50.160]  As well as Gary Steingart.
[44:50.360 --> 44:59.720]  I mean, it's an incredible out showing of support, you know, of celebrity support, of local support, of activist support, all around the world.
[45:00.180 --> 45:09.620]  But yet Landmarks isn't listening because, again, and I think that this is a really, really dangerous situation that we have right now in our local government as well as our national government.
[45:09.620 --> 45:14.680]  And maybe something is a little bit effective here because we put so many facts before them.
[45:15.160 --> 45:19.700]  Obvious facts, too, about things like landmarking is going to cost money.
[45:19.920 --> 45:20.900]  It's bureaucracy.
[45:21.240 --> 45:21.900]  It's red tape.
[45:22.080 --> 45:22.840]  It's additional costs.
[45:22.940 --> 45:23.680]  It's additional architects.
[45:23.880 --> 45:24.640]  It's drawing to scale.
[45:24.820 --> 45:29.500]  It's you requiring 3D renderings of what the roof is going to look like if we're going to change the HVAC system.
[45:29.500 --> 45:38.600]  And the operations manager went through this in detail on the basis of testimony that we had taken from various architects that we had spoken to.
[45:38.800 --> 45:44.800]  And Landmarks refused to acknowledge that there's any additional costs associated with landmarking.
[45:44.900 --> 45:48.840]  It's just an inconvenient truth that they refused to acknowledge.
[45:48.840 --> 45:53.900]  Well, I mean, it's pretty easy to prove that there is an additional cost simply by looking at previous cases, correct?
[45:53.900 --> 45:55.080]  You would think, right?
[45:55.200 --> 45:55.560]  You would think.
[45:55.720 --> 46:02.740]  But all the commissioners at Landmarks, they take the position, and the preservationists as well, that all of this happens really quickly.
[46:02.840 --> 46:04.380]  Everything happens at the staff level.
[46:04.460 --> 46:05.720]  There's never going to be any problem.
[46:05.760 --> 46:11.600]  But then you speak to the architects and the architects tell you, oh my God, no, this is going to be two or three times more expensive.
[46:11.840 --> 46:13.140]  It's going to take forever.
[46:13.300 --> 46:16.040]  You're going to have to deal with this for another six months or another year.
[46:16.100 --> 46:20.300]  And the bureaucracy is terrible, especially if you have to get something that requires supervisor approval.
[46:20.300 --> 46:29.100]  And what was fascinating to me, too, is having been at previous hearings with Landmarks, you see these real estate developers, they come in.
[46:29.240 --> 46:31.340]  And again, I'll use the word sycophantically.
[46:31.540 --> 46:39.160]  They're sycophantically bowing before the commission, praising them, telling them that they're doing God's work, telling them they're doing such a great job.
[46:39.380 --> 46:44.980]  At the same time, they're begging for approval for these certificates of appropriateness or certificates of no effect.
[46:45.800 --> 46:48.660]  Landmarks was certainly not used to being criticized.
[46:49.220 --> 46:52.180]  And we did not pull any punches yesterday.
[46:52.400 --> 46:56.240]  As I think Rob can attest, this was a real slugfest.
[46:56.400 --> 47:00.840]  And Rob got up there and he spoke eloquently and brilliantly as he did last time as well.
[47:01.440 --> 47:02.920]  And he didn't pull any punches.
[47:03.160 --> 47:08.600]  And this was very difficult for them to take because it's not what they're used to.
[47:08.740 --> 47:10.060]  They're used to being praised.
[47:10.060 --> 47:14.580]  I'm hearing a parallel here with Amazon, where they're not used to hearing this either.
[47:14.580 --> 47:16.240]  And they took their ball and went home.
[47:16.240 --> 47:19.500]  Except these guys, when they take their ball and go home...
[47:19.500 --> 47:20.340]  Well, they tried to do that.
[47:20.420 --> 47:21.220]  They're taking our ball.
[47:21.380 --> 47:23.700]  They tried to shut me down from speaking twice.
[47:24.120 --> 47:28.120]  And there was another woman, Robin Sokoloff, who spoke on our behalf.
[47:28.240 --> 47:31.760]  And they tried to shut her down when it got a little too critical.
[47:31.760 --> 47:33.920]  So, yeah, there is a direct parallel here.
[47:34.100 --> 47:44.940]  The fascinating thing about that individual, Robin Sokoloff, she runs a nonprofit art space called Town Stages that's in the city and it's in a landmarked building.
[47:45.280 --> 47:57.220]  And she got up and basically, like all the criticisms of Nancy Wyden's fears and such about being landmarked were being dismissed by people like, Oh, you know, your worries are unfounded.
[47:57.220 --> 47:58.700]  It's nothing like that.
[47:59.380 --> 48:03.500]  And then Robin Sokoloff came up and said, No, it's like that.
[48:03.620 --> 48:07.820]  And she detailed her experiences trying to operate a nonprofit in a landmarked building.
[48:08.440 --> 48:21.280]  And I think the figure she gave was she spends 40% of her time and resources just with paperwork related to the landmarking, with all the extra red tape, all the extra hassle whenever she needs to, you know, do anything regarding the building.
[48:21.280 --> 48:28.680]  She's had like inspectors camp out like like all kinds of the I can't even begin to scratch the surface here right now.
[48:28.800 --> 48:37.880]  But but it's just it's just amazing that she came up there and painted a picture as someone with direct experience of exactly what the strand is being threatened with.
[48:38.200 --> 48:46.820]  And, you know, she she gave her testimony and then other people came and just were repeating the same the same the same dismissals like, oh, it's not like that.
[48:46.820 --> 48:47.380]  It's not like that.
[48:47.500 --> 48:49.000]  There's someone with that experience.
[48:49.240 --> 48:49.320]  Yeah.
[48:49.460 --> 48:53.680]  And like and how and relaying that's so good, like relaying how it is in practice.
[48:54.200 --> 48:55.020]  Just one question.
[48:55.140 --> 48:55.720]  I'm curious.
[48:55.900 --> 49:09.360]  So after the impression you got from that statement from the I guess it was a leader of the committee's statement or what she implied, how did it end up is what I'm what I'm getting at.
[49:09.440 --> 49:13.260]  You know, what what are the next steps and what was the mood of the room as you guys were closing?
[49:13.260 --> 49:19.900]  It was it was really a fascinating ending to this because they were wrapping this up.
[49:20.020 --> 49:23.660]  They asked the commissioners, you know, do you have any other questions?
[49:24.080 --> 49:29.500]  And at which point Naomi Wolf, who was also there, piped up and said, I have a question.
[49:29.660 --> 49:30.560]  Can I ask a question?
[49:31.360 --> 49:36.360]  And the chair of the LPC looked at her and said, no, you can't ask a question.
[49:36.360 --> 49:39.900]  Wait, didn't they just say, are there any questions to the commissioners?
[49:40.060 --> 49:43.540]  The chair of the commission asked the commissioners if there were any questions.
[49:43.860 --> 49:46.300]  The public was not allowed to ask a question of them.
[49:46.500 --> 49:49.400]  But then, nevertheless, she persisted.
[49:49.480 --> 49:49.820]  Wow.
[49:50.720 --> 49:53.440]  And she asked the question and she got it on film.
[49:53.440 --> 50:05.940]  And the question was, the chair had had read into the record that there were 52 emails that they had received opposing landmark designation for the strand, 32 emails in support of the designation.
[50:06.160 --> 50:08.120]  And Naomi Wolf asked a very direct question.
[50:08.200 --> 50:12.660]  Well, what are your metrics for for gauging support and opposition here?
[50:12.740 --> 50:17.980]  Because Nancy Bass Wyden just handed you a petition that had over 6000 signatures on it.
[50:17.980 --> 50:19.420]  So are you going to weigh those?
[50:19.560 --> 50:24.760]  And I tried to go on your website and figure out how to contact you and and spread the word.
[50:24.900 --> 50:28.420]  And I couldn't find any email addresses and I couldn't find any direct phone numbers.
[50:28.560 --> 50:29.760]  And so how are you gauging that?
[50:29.820 --> 50:31.740]  What about all these tweets to the mayor's office?
[50:31.940 --> 50:34.520]  Are you looking at Twitter to try to gauge public support here?
[50:36.080 --> 50:41.260]  And the general counsel had responded to Naomi saying, well, this sounds like a press inquiry.
[50:41.420 --> 50:42.760]  I'll talk to you off the record afterwards.
[50:42.940 --> 50:44.800]  And it went back and forth for a while.
[50:44.800 --> 50:48.460]  So the long and the short of it is it was a very interesting ending.
[50:48.840 --> 50:53.400]  Naomi Wolf did a great job at speaking truth to power to the Landmarks Preservation Commission.
[50:53.680 --> 50:54.780]  There's no vote yet.
[50:54.940 --> 50:56.500]  They're going to go back and deliberate about this.
[50:56.600 --> 50:58.040]  They're going to think about the proposal.
[50:58.040 --> 51:07.880]  We hope we hope that they're going to give it the due consideration that it justifies, because it is a very workable proposal that would allow the strand to survive and the building to be protected.
[51:07.880 --> 51:14.700]  Their interests are going to be satisfied and they can move on and actually focus on a building that is in real danger.
[51:14.920 --> 51:20.960]  So we don't know when they're going to schedule their next meeting and have their vote about this particular issue.
[51:21.060 --> 51:29.400]  But in the meantime, what you should do is try to contact the Landmarks Preservation Commission, send them emails, Google their emails.
[51:29.400 --> 51:33.280]  I was actually just before, a few minutes ago, trying to find how to contact them.
[51:33.360 --> 51:33.940]  It was difficult.
[51:34.120 --> 51:36.700]  If you can't figure it out, how are our listeners going to figure that out?
[51:37.440 --> 51:38.400]  They're smarter than me.
[51:38.580 --> 51:39.020]  I'm a lawyer.
[51:39.180 --> 51:39.460]  Come on.
[51:39.620 --> 51:41.480]  Well, their website?
[51:41.640 --> 51:42.200]  Do you have their website?
[51:43.040 --> 51:44.340]  Yes, I can give you that.
[51:44.340 --> 51:54.380]  And also, I would say that the council member who is responsible in large part for this particular designation is Carlina Rivera.
[51:54.720 --> 52:03.180]  And you should Google Carlina Rivera, find her contact information and send her emails that you oppose this particular designation for the Strand Bookstore.
[52:03.180 --> 52:05.000]  Make sure you're getting the right Carlina Rivera too.
[52:05.160 --> 52:07.560]  Carlina Rivera, City Council, New York City.
[52:07.800 --> 52:09.360]  That'll bring it up very easily.
[52:09.360 --> 52:09.400]  Absolutely.
[52:10.360 --> 52:12.060]  You know, it's interesting.
[52:12.200 --> 52:14.940]  The URL here isn't really showing anything.
[52:14.940 --> 52:23.940]  I think if you go to nyc.gov slash landmarks, you'll end up somehow at the Landmarks Preservation Commission website.
[52:24.200 --> 52:24.660]  Okay.
[52:24.880 --> 52:32.560]  Well, you know, I also, I wanted to close just by, we mentioned we were going to be talking more about real estate in regards to the Amazon deal.
[52:32.560 --> 52:43.280]  And I think that's something that we need to focus upon because, you know, a lot of the critics of Amazon not being in the city, I think they're missing something here.
[52:43.440 --> 52:54.200]  I really think that they're not seeing what that actually means as far as houses, apartments, real estate in general.
[52:55.620 --> 53:00.020]  Basically, what they're saying here in the realty world.
[53:00.140 --> 53:04.120]  Overnight, a sluggish buyer's market became a seller's paradise.
[53:04.520 --> 53:08.340]  Real estate firms reported sales of many times their usual volume.
[53:08.560 --> 53:16.280]  Stories of brokers selling units sight unseen via text tickled developers, even if other New Yorkers greeted the news with terror.
[53:16.280 --> 53:25.300]  And now that Amazon is breaking off its engagement with the Big Apple, the passion that stoked the HQ to buying frenzy has evaporated.
[53:25.900 --> 53:32.060]  And, you know, it's that that world that is being described right there is a fantasy world.
[53:32.240 --> 53:39.660]  It's a fantasy world where basically all of a sudden something is selling for a huge amount of money when it wouldn't sell before.
[53:39.660 --> 53:44.400]  And and if it does sell in the future would sell for something a bit more reasonable.
[53:44.920 --> 53:50.140]  There are people who benefit from this and there are people who never see anything.
[53:51.960 --> 53:53.980]  Basically, that is how real estate works.
[53:54.200 --> 54:02.620]  You know, you have you have a space that that all of a sudden people are jumping upon because it's a luxury condo.
[54:02.620 --> 54:10.120]  I don't know what kind of person would suddenly buy a luxury condo hearing that Amazon was about to assign a deal to set up shop.
[54:10.400 --> 54:14.280]  But apparently there were people like that and people bought luxury condos as a result.
[54:14.440 --> 54:16.480]  That doesn't benefit the average person.
[54:16.620 --> 54:18.120]  You don't get anything out of that.
[54:18.640 --> 54:19.860]  And, you know, the realtors.
[54:20.020 --> 54:21.400]  Yes, they do the real estate market.
[54:21.580 --> 54:22.540]  They are upset by this.
[54:22.620 --> 54:24.040]  I was watching New York one the other day.
[54:24.440 --> 54:30.860]  And, you know, they had they had candidates for the public advocates speaking out against the Amazon deal.
[54:30.860 --> 54:33.280]  Do you know who they had speaking for the Amazon deal?
[54:33.700 --> 54:37.540]  Real estate magnets, you know, people who actually were part of the deal.
[54:37.660 --> 54:38.940]  Of course, they're going to be for it.
[54:39.140 --> 54:40.800]  Of course, they're going to benefit from this.
[54:41.020 --> 54:49.020]  You know, they're making a lot of money by selling overpriced condos at $300,000 above the asking price.
[54:49.260 --> 54:51.820]  How does that benefit the average person?
[54:51.960 --> 54:52.520]  It does not.
[54:52.600 --> 54:58.920]  And what happens, what happens when a company like Amazon moves in, as Kyle can attest, rents go up.
[54:58.920 --> 55:00.400]  Housing becomes scarce.
[55:00.640 --> 55:03.660]  You have all kinds of social problems as a result.
[55:04.120 --> 55:08.900]  And if the company responsible for all that isn't interested in addressing it and doesn't want to be critiqued.
[55:09.340 --> 55:10.280]  Well, you know what?
[55:10.360 --> 55:16.380]  It's better we have that conversation now than when they're in a position where they can really screw things up if they don't do anything.
[55:17.420 --> 55:18.380]  I completely agree.
[55:18.520 --> 55:25.360]  I mean, these poor real estate developers right now trying to get their money out of escrow for all these properties for which they put down down payments in Long Island City.
[55:25.720 --> 55:27.620]  Oh, my heart breaks for them, let me tell you.
[55:28.580 --> 55:29.780]  One quick point here.
[55:30.140 --> 55:39.760]  Carlina Rivera, the city councilwoman, I was able to find her email address if our listeners want to email her and voice their opposition to the landmarking of the Strand Bookstore.
[55:39.920 --> 55:44.720]  It is District 2, the number 2, District 2 at council.nyc.gov.
[55:44.720 --> 55:50.880]  And that's council spelled, if you're like Donald Trump, C-O-U-N-C-I-L.nyc.gov.
[55:50.880 --> 55:54.400]  And you're probably emailing more than just her because I don't think she is District 2, right?
[55:54.760 --> 55:59.520]  Well, she is the representative for District 2, so I imagine this will go to her staff and eventually get up to her.
[55:59.800 --> 56:01.980]  As we said before, this is a fundraising show.
[56:02.260 --> 56:06.380]  Please call 516-620-3602.
[56:06.420 --> 56:09.520]  That's 516-620-3602.
[56:09.600 --> 56:12.840]  And ask for the Strand Package.
[56:13.120 --> 56:14.780]  Ask for a pledge of $100.
[56:15.080 --> 56:17.360]  Also go to GiveToWBAI.org.
[56:17.360 --> 56:20.980]  You can also get the Electronic Frontier Foundation package for a pledge of $100.
[56:21.420 --> 56:24.360]  The important thing is to make that phone call, 516-620-3602.
[56:25.060 --> 56:30.260]  We had a spirited discussion about these issues, and hopefully we have many more spirited discussions in our future.
[56:30.360 --> 56:31.480]  You can be a part of them as well.
[56:31.860 --> 56:39.460]  But please support the radio station so that we have this important voice here in the middle of the FM dial in New York City and throughout the world on the internet.
[56:40.260 --> 56:43.440]  Once more, 516-620-3602.
[56:43.440 --> 56:46.620]  You can write to us, O-T-H at 2600.com.
[56:46.740 --> 56:49.920]  And hopefully we'll be back again next week with another exciting edition of Off The Hook.
[56:50.100 --> 56:50.320]  Good night.
[56:56.600 --> 56:58.020]  Good night.
[56:58.480 --> 56:58.640]  Good
[57:10.730 --> 57:52.010]  night.odziell
[58:01.620 --> 58:03.500]  us online
[58:06.650 --> 58:11.650]  Fight back, someone tries to do you in.
[58:14.070 --> 58:18.250]  Fight back, show them that they just can't win.
[58:44.120 --> 58:47.960]  Fight, you don't have to take it anymore.
[59:04.990 --> 59:08.230]  Just step on your toes and rip you off.