[00:00.000 --> 00:03.120]  ...faith in a system that was built to oppress them.
[00:03.280 --> 00:04.980]  And that is how they win.
[00:05.300 --> 00:09.920]  So somewhere in America, I am standing here, begging you to vote.
[00:10.160 --> 00:12.320]  Hold elected officials responsible.
[00:12.660 --> 00:13.780]  Stand up for your rights.
[00:14.060 --> 00:14.540]  Scream!
[00:14.880 --> 00:17.860]  Cries of liberation, just like your ancestors did.
[00:18.180 --> 00:19.960]  Remember what is at stake.
[00:20.440 --> 00:22.740]  Demand you be seen as you are.
[00:23.280 --> 00:24.020]  Not criminal.
[00:24.440 --> 00:25.240]  Not terrorist.
[00:25.700 --> 00:26.560]  Not alien.
[00:27.160 --> 00:27.580]  Human.
[00:27.580 --> 00:31.280]  This is listener-sponsored WBAI New York.
[00:32.260 --> 00:33.400]  Oh, hell yeah.
[00:33.720 --> 00:34.320]  All right.
[00:34.820 --> 00:36.140]  We need a little more of that.
[00:36.600 --> 00:38.100]  You're listening to WBAI New York.
[00:38.240 --> 00:39.400]  It's 7 o'clock on a Wednesday.
[00:40.160 --> 00:45.940]  And that means it's time for Off the Hook and our slow CD player.
[01:55.050 --> 01:56.450]  And a very good evening to everybody.
[01:56.550 --> 01:57.790]  The program is Off the Hook.
[01:57.890 --> 01:59.970]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening.
[01:59.970 --> 02:01.370]  Joined tonight by Rob T.
[02:01.510 --> 02:01.970]  Firefly.
[02:02.110 --> 02:02.610]  Good evening.
[02:03.030 --> 02:03.550]  And Kyle.
[02:04.130 --> 02:04.610]  Hello.
[02:04.970 --> 02:05.990]  And Jim's in the background.
[02:06.370 --> 02:06.690]  Hello.
[02:06.950 --> 02:07.510]  Hey, Jim.
[02:07.630 --> 02:08.470]  It's been a long time.
[02:09.050 --> 02:14.490]  Well, we've got a lot of news to break and update and things like that.
[02:14.570 --> 02:16.530]  And of course, we'll be raising funds as well.
[02:16.770 --> 02:17.750]  Hopefully we'll be raising funds.
[02:18.890 --> 02:23.590]  But you guys see the story that broke on 2600 earlier today?
[02:24.190 --> 02:24.770]  I did.
[02:25.010 --> 02:25.230]  Yeah.
[02:26.030 --> 02:26.770]  I did, indeed.
[02:26.890 --> 02:28.450]  Well, I guess there's no reason to talk about it, is there?
[02:28.570 --> 02:28.950]  Yeah.
[02:29.270 --> 02:30.970]  Well, maybe the listeners didn't see it.
[02:31.030 --> 02:32.530]  So let's update them.
[02:32.790 --> 02:39.930]  It turns out, you know, we've been trying to get the magazine, 2600 magazine, into more stores because, well, there are less stores.
[02:40.770 --> 02:42.170]  Yeah, that's the thing.
[02:42.410 --> 02:44.730]  You know, remember all the bookstores that used to be around?
[02:44.930 --> 02:49.650]  And then the chains came in and drove all those bookstores away and they opened up chains everywhere.
[02:49.890 --> 02:57.710]  And then the chains went out of business and nothing replaced them, except for maybe massive gyms and parking lots and things like that.
[02:57.710 --> 03:00.130]  Well, there are a few stores left.
[03:00.390 --> 03:08.470]  And when Kyle and I were in the UK late last year, we noticed that there were many bookstores.
[03:08.550 --> 03:11.270]  In fact, almost every community has their own bookstore.
[03:11.470 --> 03:12.550]  This is true in Canada, too.
[03:12.750 --> 03:16.370]  Many, many villages and cities have their own independent bookstores.
[03:16.470 --> 03:23.390]  But we noticed that there were lots and lots of places where 2600 could be stocked in the United Kingdom.
[03:23.390 --> 03:37.150]  So along with demands from our readers in that part of the world, we set out to find out how to do this, how to get back into bookstores that existed, the few that do exist.
[03:37.830 --> 03:38.530]  W.H.
[03:38.630 --> 03:43.650]  Smith is one of the outlets that sells lots of magazines and books.
[03:43.810 --> 03:58.190]  So we actually set out to do this, figuring that, you know, we're not going to make any money out of this, because by the time they actually get around to paying you, you've already given them more than half of the cover price.
[03:58.350 --> 03:59.610]  More than half, which is incredible.
[04:00.270 --> 04:04.570]  You do all the work, you put the thing out, and they sell it, and they get more than half.
[04:05.530 --> 04:06.530]  So there's that.
[04:07.550 --> 04:13.590]  There are distributors who expect you to pay them a fee for the honor of putting a magazine in a shop.
[04:13.590 --> 04:18.230]  And then you have to pay delivery, which is exorbitant, especially if you send it overseas.
[04:18.890 --> 04:20.490]  So it's not about the money.
[04:20.590 --> 04:21.830]  It's not about making a profit.
[04:21.930 --> 04:22.550]  It's about visibility.
[04:22.750 --> 04:23.430]  It's about getting out there.
[04:23.530 --> 04:29.810]  It's about not having those conversations with our former readers who say, oh, wow, we didn't know you still existed.
[04:30.130 --> 04:31.130]  How could you know?
[04:31.130 --> 04:32.510]  Because you don't see us anymore.
[04:32.510 --> 04:34.930]  You don't see us in the bookstories that don't exist.
[04:34.930 --> 04:52.430]  So we set about going through channels, and we just got our hands on a letter that was sent from the British distributor known as Seymour Distribution to our distributor based in the United States who is working this out for us.
[04:52.590 --> 05:02.450]  I just want to read this because it's incredible what you can learn just by seeing how they think of titles.
[05:03.250 --> 05:09.830]  The rationale for taking any import title, that's what we are because we're from the United States, an import title is based on the following criteria.
[05:10.530 --> 05:14.990]  Number one, what is the possible sales volume we can achieve based upon the business plan of the publisher?
[05:15.190 --> 05:22.330]  This includes above and below the line marketing plan, the UK cover price, and the quality of the publication compared to others in the marketplace, blah, blah, blah.
[05:22.490 --> 05:23.830]  Okay, that's not an issue.
[05:24.630 --> 05:26.930]  Number two, this is the issue.
[05:27.190 --> 05:32.210]  Is the subject matter likely to cause any negative publicity or consumer complaints?
[05:32.450 --> 05:36.010]  Is the magazine compliant with all aspects of UK law?
[05:36.370 --> 05:54.630]  In the event of point two, some retailers such as WH Smith High Street, our largest retailer of specialist goods, have in the contract, they can charge the publisher per complaint and fine the publisher up to £10,000, plus any cost they may incur on recalling the title,
[05:55.010 --> 05:57.070]  such they decide this is necessary.
[05:57.270 --> 06:00.170]  I don't know if that's really how they talk, such they decide this is necessary.
[06:00.170 --> 06:07.050]  In this circumstance, based upon the content being such that it may cause complaints, we decline your offer of distribution.
[06:07.290 --> 06:09.930]  So, that is where we are today, folks.
[06:11.730 --> 06:15.070]  Distribution being denied because of controversial content.
[06:15.290 --> 06:18.610]  And this is not because of a government clampdown.
[06:18.770 --> 06:21.150]  It's because of the fear of a government clampdown.
[06:21.310 --> 06:25.810]  It's because of the fear of doing anything that might be a bit objectionable or controversial.
[06:26.630 --> 06:32.030]  Now, you know, we've been publishing since 1984, and we've never seen a letter like this.
[06:32.170 --> 06:37.050]  We've seen plenty of people say, oh, I don't think you guys should exist, you should all be in jail, things like that.
[06:37.270 --> 06:38.430]  Yeah, we're used to that.
[06:38.630 --> 06:45.350]  But we've always managed to survive and stand in the face of that kind of attitude.
[06:45.350 --> 06:50.970]  And we've been supported by bookstores such as Barnes & Noble and Borders when they were around.
[06:51.990 --> 06:54.310]  And Virgin Megastore, remember them?
[06:54.570 --> 06:55.430]  All gone.
[06:55.610 --> 06:56.550]  Well, not Barnes & Noble.
[06:56.630 --> 06:57.070]  They're still here.
[06:57.150 --> 07:02.470]  But so many stores shut their doors, leaving a void.
[07:02.730 --> 07:07.330]  And now trying to fill that void, we're finding that the attitude has changed completely.
[07:07.330 --> 07:12.970]  And these stores are very cautious, very fearful, and they don't want to take any risks.
[07:13.110 --> 07:16.370]  They don't want to say anything or display anything that might be controversial.
[07:16.610 --> 07:20.670]  And a magazine about computer hacking, yeah, that might be a little bit too much for them.
[07:20.970 --> 07:25.550]  So these are increasingly dark days in so many ways.
[07:25.670 --> 07:35.270]  We had Julian Assange, we played the interview a couple of weeks ago, where he was saying how he felt safe in the United States when he released Collateral Murder.
[07:36.150 --> 07:44.970]  And just to think about how that plays today, how things have changed on that front, how attitudes have changed.
[07:45.370 --> 07:46.610]  It doesn't happen overnight.
[07:46.610 --> 07:47.610]  It happens gradually.
[07:48.170 --> 07:52.670]  And this is part of the change that we can witness, all of us together.
[07:52.890 --> 07:53.990]  Now, what does this mean for us?
[07:54.410 --> 07:57.730]  You know, it just means that we're not going to be as visible in the United Kingdom.
[07:57.730 --> 07:59.750]  You won't see us on newsstands.
[07:59.750 --> 08:00.830]  You won't see us in bookstores.
[08:00.830 --> 08:09.430]  Of course, as long as the mail, the Royal Mail, still delivers controversial magazines, we can always send it to people that way.
[08:09.570 --> 08:10.770]  But this is sad.
[08:10.770 --> 08:12.390]  And it's not just sad for us.
[08:12.490 --> 08:17.450]  It's sad for anybody who publishes anything of a slightly controversial nature.
[08:17.450 --> 08:27.570]  To be told that, yeah, a complaint can yield a 10,000-pound fine and all kinds of other penalties, who knows what.
[08:28.650 --> 08:29.590]  That's the United Kingdom.
[08:29.810 --> 08:32.490]  Not the United States yet, but it could be the United States.
[08:32.990 --> 08:33.870]  Maybe not tomorrow.
[08:34.010 --> 08:34.690]  Maybe not next week.
[08:34.850 --> 08:36.510]  But certainly in the years ahead.
[08:37.790 --> 08:38.590]  Pretty sobering.
[08:38.710 --> 08:38.870]  Rob?
[08:39.230 --> 08:45.850]  What's entertaining to me about this is this isn't because someone complained, which, you know, would be interesting if it happened.
[08:45.870 --> 08:48.910]  You know, if somebody complained about the content, you know, we could respond to that or whatever.
[08:48.910 --> 08:54.270]  This is because the bookstore thinks that there's the possibility of someone down the line complaining.
[08:54.590 --> 09:03.430]  And to censor things based on that, I mean, you pick any book off the shelf in a bookstore, you pick any magazine off that rack, and I'm sure there's something in there that will upset somebody.
[09:03.570 --> 09:06.330]  You know, let's go to WH Smith and complain about everything.
[09:06.770 --> 09:07.950]  Let's just do that.
[09:08.110 --> 09:12.250]  There's no shortage of titles in there I think you could probably make this argument for.
[09:12.250 --> 09:17.490]  But as Rob said, we're not even being given an opportunity to present our material.
[09:17.490 --> 09:37.890]  And that is a really glaring stance on ideas because you do not give our publication the chance to be in the discussion and in people's minds and on the shelves to spark and engage that discussion.
[09:37.890 --> 09:54.790]  And it's a presumption that everything else is not as controversial as what we may potentially have before there's even an opportunity for anyone to raise a kind of complaint.
[09:55.330 --> 09:56.190]  Yeah, absolutely.
[09:56.310 --> 09:57.430]  The fear of complaints.
[09:57.650 --> 10:02.190]  You know, I would actually welcome government censorship over this because at least that you can fight.
[10:02.190 --> 10:08.850]  You can fight that, at least in this country, you can fight blatantly and with a lot of publicity.
[10:09.030 --> 10:18.670]  But when you have corporations that are overly timid and don't want to have these battles, that kind of...
[10:21.210 --> 10:22.510]  It's not the same...
[10:22.510 --> 10:26.210]  It's not censorship per se, but it has the same effect.
[10:27.170 --> 10:28.890]  It's basically corporate silencing.
[10:29.050 --> 10:32.530]  And that's not something that any of us should support.
[10:33.630 --> 10:36.130]  No, and it's an editorial decision.
[10:36.130 --> 10:46.390]  So you're sort of putting bumpers and guides on the entirety of what people can choose to read or not read.
[10:46.530 --> 10:56.330]  I mean, instead of people just, you know, passing it by or if, you know, they don't agree with it or whatever, putting it down or not buying it, we're being barred from that marketplace.
[10:56.550 --> 11:03.670]  And there's other attributes that you mentioned that you didn't mention, like finding out where some of these stores are.
[11:03.970 --> 11:09.830]  Oftentimes, distributors put other constraints on as well as the costs and stuff that you'd mentioned.
[11:09.830 --> 11:26.470]  And this content requirements and sort of community standards that are a private thing by these companies, it really, really narrows how we can operate.
[11:26.730 --> 11:34.610]  And yeah, as an example, we want to share things like where people can go to get issues in these different places.
[11:34.610 --> 11:38.890]  So it's really wide ranging in scope.
[11:38.890 --> 11:40.090]  Yeah, we are working on that.
[11:40.230 --> 11:41.050]  The hassle it is.
[11:41.130 --> 11:46.670]  We are working on getting a full list of places that you can find the magazine, in this country at least.
[11:46.810 --> 11:51.370]  And that's like pulling teeth to get that information because distributors are competing against other distributors.
[11:51.430 --> 11:54.290]  And if they give out the stores that they sell in, that might hurt them.
[11:54.370 --> 11:58.090]  But it sure hurts us if you don't let that information out because people don't know where to find this.
[11:58.170 --> 11:58.770]  It's really silly.
[11:59.690 --> 12:13.070]  But I just think back, you know, to the 90s, the height of the zine explosion and the variety of material that you would find walking through any of these bookstores that has now been silenced because they're afraid of controversy.
[12:13.210 --> 12:23.470]  Despite, you know, all the stores that have gone out of business, the ones that exist now, the distributors that supply them are afraid of any kind of controversy, which, you know, have they ever seen a book before?
[12:23.470 --> 12:24.610]  Have they ever seen a magazine?
[12:24.990 --> 12:26.990]  Controversy is the lifeblood.
[12:27.150 --> 12:27.270]  Yeah.
[12:27.370 --> 12:28.410]  Is controversy illegal?
[12:28.670 --> 12:42.270]  I mean, it's one thing to have been accused of promoting illegal things or sharing ideas that could be used by criminals, which is something we've been accused of in the past.
[12:42.290 --> 12:43.390]  This is not that.
[12:43.530 --> 12:46.730]  This is just being timid, as you said, about controversy.
[12:46.950 --> 12:52.150]  And controversy is not an offense, right?
[12:52.150 --> 13:04.450]  It is the nature of some issues, and it can be a part of ideas and different issues that come up in the public square, as it were.
[13:04.610 --> 13:12.050]  But to regulate it in this manner and levy a fine, I mean, that's insanity, I think.
[13:12.050 --> 13:22.730]  I mean, do their customers really deserve... I think they're being done a disservice by being limited, rather, and then they're making money on this?
[13:22.810 --> 13:25.330]  They can charge the customer per complaint.
[13:25.570 --> 13:27.270]  I mean, what does that even mean?
[13:27.750 --> 13:30.390]  That's... what an ominous Orwellian thing.
[13:30.390 --> 13:44.990]  Yeah, imagine you're basically forcing publishers to write and produce or publish things such that they do not stir up any controversy.
[13:44.990 --> 13:45.970]  What is that?
[13:46.130 --> 13:46.930]  That's amazing.
[13:47.190 --> 13:52.270]  Anyway, more updates will be posted to 2600.com as we learn them.
[13:52.350 --> 13:54.430]  But I don't think we're going to learn much more about this.
[13:54.430 --> 13:59.290]  I think this is pretty much the way it's going to be, unless something dramatic changes in the UK.
[14:00.110 --> 14:04.670]  I'm more concerned with what happens here in this country in the weeks, months, years ahead.
[14:04.830 --> 14:05.910]  But we'll have to see.
[14:06.090 --> 14:09.210]  And I grabbed this story as we were heading over here.
[14:09.710 --> 14:10.990]  This just came over the wire.
[14:11.430 --> 14:14.430]  Apparently, we're going Christian here at 90...
[14:16.110 --> 14:21.890]  The format at 95.5 announced in a tweet that it will air its final broadcast May 31st.
[14:22.030 --> 14:30.930]  The announcement comes less than three months after the station was purchased by Educational Media Foundation, a Christian radio broadcaster, signaling a change in formats and call letters.
[14:31.070 --> 14:32.850]  The rumors you've been hearing are true.
[14:33.010 --> 14:36.990]  As hard as it is to believe, the station will be going away on Friday, May 31st.
[14:37.190 --> 14:41.870]  The format and personalities that you've come to love over the years will no longer broadcast on 95.5.
[14:41.870 --> 14:44.770]  I mean, way to tell me about it.
[14:44.850 --> 14:46.690]  How was I supposed to know that this was going to happen?
[14:46.810 --> 14:48.430]  This is how we tell our listeners?
[14:48.810 --> 14:50.370]  In the middle of a fun drive, too.
[14:50.510 --> 14:50.690]  I know.
[14:51.010 --> 14:51.350]  That's amazing.
[14:51.530 --> 14:52.350]  I can't believe it.
[14:52.750 --> 14:54.370]  It's really a turn for the worse.
[14:55.270 --> 14:57.190]  I hadn't heard about this, but this is upsetting.
[14:57.270 --> 14:59.110]  I don't think I have any suitable outfits.
[14:59.770 --> 15:04.410]  Yeah, well, the station, you know, 50, over 50 years and...
[15:04.410 --> 15:06.770]  Pacifica hasn't said anything to anybody here yet?
[15:07.550 --> 15:08.550]  Not that I'm...
[15:08.550 --> 15:09.270]  I can see.
[15:09.450 --> 15:09.670]  Hold on.
[15:09.670 --> 15:17.030]  The station has enjoyed highs and lows in popularity and listenership, most recently peaking with the now-defunct Scott and Todd show.
[15:17.030 --> 15:17.930]  I don't think I listened to that.
[15:18.770 --> 15:21.290]  I think that's on before Trump Report.
[15:21.950 --> 15:22.430]  Okay.
[15:22.430 --> 15:24.730]  Well, I never heard of it before.
[15:26.150 --> 15:29.450]  The station has been a cultural staple since 1971.
[15:29.650 --> 15:31.950]  Actually, it's been a cultural staple longer than that.
[15:33.970 --> 15:35.890]  Wait, what did you say the frequency was?
[15:35.990 --> 15:36.450]  95.5.
[15:37.330 --> 15:38.170]  No, that's...
[15:38.170 --> 15:39.990]  This is 99.5.
[15:41.190 --> 15:42.610]  Oh, we're 99.5.
[15:42.750 --> 15:43.190]  That's right.
[15:43.630 --> 15:44.850]  I think we're okay, actually.
[15:45.010 --> 15:45.170]  Yeah.
[15:45.430 --> 15:48.870]  Like I said, I just grabbed this as we were leaving and I just saw the...
[15:48.870 --> 15:51.890]  It's only four megahertz away, so that's close.
[15:52.010 --> 15:52.990]  That's a little too close.
[15:53.530 --> 15:55.170]  Oh, this is WPLJ.
[15:55.670 --> 15:55.970]  Oh.
[15:56.430 --> 15:57.130]  Oh, oh, oh.
[15:57.310 --> 15:57.630]  I'm sorry.
[15:57.910 --> 15:58.810]  None of you guys...
[15:59.410 --> 15:59.770]  Wow.
[15:59.930 --> 16:00.170]  Okay.
[16:00.370 --> 16:05.650]  I was wondering why it said after nearly 50 years on the air, because we've been on the air, I think, 60 years.
[16:05.750 --> 16:07.230]  So it's 60, almost 60, yeah.
[16:07.470 --> 16:08.150]  But, oh, this is...
[16:08.150 --> 16:08.490]  Hold on a second.
[16:08.870 --> 16:10.050]  I'm learning about this right now then.
[16:10.170 --> 16:12.530]  The PLJ is going Christian?
[16:13.210 --> 16:16.610]  You see, folks, this is what happens to radio if you don't take care of it.
[16:17.150 --> 16:19.130]  All of a sudden, it turns into something else.
[16:21.110 --> 16:21.670]  Okay, yeah.
[16:21.670 --> 16:30.090]  Yeah, the sale to this organization signals yet another switch in formats, a conclusive switch this time.
[16:30.210 --> 16:34.890]  The call letters are going away, and the radio personalities are all being sent out to pasture.
[16:36.150 --> 16:41.730]  Many long-time, first-time listeners chimed in on social media, expressing a mix of anger, dismay, and outright sadness.
[16:41.970 --> 16:45.610]  You see, I saw that, but that's just, you know, a lot of listeners are like that no matter what.
[16:46.150 --> 16:47.370]  So I didn't...
[16:47.370 --> 16:47.570]  Okay.
[16:48.810 --> 16:49.210]  Heartbroken.
[16:49.210 --> 16:49.930]  Losing a friend.
[16:50.050 --> 16:51.290]  Been listening as long as I can remember.
[16:51.770 --> 16:53.530]  Um, I'm sorry.
[16:53.670 --> 16:53.850]  Wow.
[16:54.070 --> 16:55.410]  I mean, I'm sorry for that station.
[16:55.530 --> 16:56.270]  I'm happy for us, though.
[16:56.390 --> 16:56.990]  We're still here.
[16:57.470 --> 16:58.130]  Imagine that.
[16:58.290 --> 16:58.750]  We're still here.
[16:58.830 --> 16:59.970]  We're outliving PLJ.
[17:00.170 --> 17:01.090]  We're outliving NEW.
[17:01.310 --> 17:02.750]  We're outliving all those stations.
[17:03.010 --> 17:03.750]  And why?
[17:03.930 --> 17:04.850]  Because of our listeners.
[17:05.270 --> 17:06.190]  Because of our listeners.
[17:06.790 --> 17:07.870]  This could have been us.
[17:21.670 --> 17:22.590]  That says the frequency.
[17:22.770 --> 17:26.410]  And here, inside a radio studio, we don't have that information.
[17:26.790 --> 17:30.090]  So it's very easy for us to forget what frequency we're at.
[17:30.530 --> 17:30.910]  All right?
[17:30.930 --> 17:32.050]  That happens all the time.
[17:32.710 --> 17:34.030]  I just have a microphone here.
[17:34.030 --> 17:35.250]  I don't have a radio.
[17:35.250 --> 17:38.210]  I don't need a radio because I'm the one speaking.
[17:38.510 --> 17:40.870]  So it's understandable that I wouldn't know what frequency I'm on.
[17:40.930 --> 17:43.930]  Well, there is a banner, but it's in fairness... It's behind my head, Kyle.
[17:43.930 --> 17:45.370]  I can't turn around and see it.
[17:45.550 --> 17:47.130]  I mean, maybe it was subconscious.
[17:47.130 --> 17:48.750]  That's what alerted me.
[17:48.990 --> 17:50.210]  But wow, what a relief.
[17:50.210 --> 17:51.890]  May 31st... Okay, so we have a little bit longer, then.
[17:51.930 --> 18:00.870]  No, May 31st, WPLJ will sign off for the last... Well, they don't sign off, so they will sign off for the only time, and that's it.
[18:01.450 --> 18:07.110]  And the replacement will be syndicated programming not connected to New York at all.
[18:08.050 --> 18:10.870]  It already sounds kind of Christian, is that?
[18:10.970 --> 18:18.830]  Well, it's basically some of this imported program over satellites that we hear more and more of.
[18:18.830 --> 18:21.650]  And it's kind of depressing.
[18:21.970 --> 18:24.530]  But their operator's already piping it in, it seems.
[18:24.990 --> 18:28.430]  Is that true, or is it after the 31st that that will cut over?
[18:28.430 --> 18:29.670]  May 31st is the sign-up.
[18:29.730 --> 18:31.510]  So the programming will change then, too.
[18:31.510 --> 18:32.810]  That's my understanding, yes.
[18:32.950 --> 18:33.030]  Wow.
[18:33.530 --> 18:41.870]  So that is why it's doubly important to support the radio station, because things like this can happen.
[18:42.870 --> 18:47.470]  And interesting, they sell WPLJ, but they do not sell WBAI.
[18:47.570 --> 18:51.890]  In fact, WBAI has outlasted, I think, just about every radio station in New York.
[18:52.090 --> 18:53.270]  We must be doing something right.
[18:53.490 --> 18:54.510]  Remember WQXR?
[18:54.630 --> 18:55.710]  What a great station that was.
[18:56.030 --> 18:57.030]  Well, I mean, it still is.
[18:57.030 --> 18:59.830]  It's just at a reduced frequency, reduced power at a different frequency.
[18:59.970 --> 19:03.310]  But, you know, the classical station at 96.3, it's gone.
[19:04.210 --> 19:07.610]  WNEW used to be a progressive rock station.
[19:07.910 --> 19:10.470]  WPLJ used to be WABC-FM.
[19:10.890 --> 19:16.850]  Every frequency has a story behind it, and nearly every frequency has changed, has been sold.
[19:17.310 --> 19:23.090]  WBAI has existed since 1960, and we hope to continue past 2060.
[19:23.450 --> 19:26.510]  And we probably will, because our listeners support us.
[19:26.670 --> 19:27.590]  How can you support us?
[19:27.630 --> 19:30.530]  You can call 516-620-3602.
[19:30.530 --> 19:36.190]  What we are offering tonight is a gift from our friends over at The Strand.
[19:36.470 --> 19:37.390]  We're talking about bookstores.
[19:37.630 --> 19:40.110]  Well, this is the bookstore of all bookstores.
[19:40.690 --> 19:51.210]  What you can get for a pledge of $100 to 516-620-3602, you can get an autographed copy of Cory Doctorow's just-released book, Radicalized.
[19:51.430 --> 20:02.990]  It's a timely novel composed of four science fiction novellas connected by social, technological, economic visions of today, and what America could be in the very near future.
[20:03.170 --> 20:05.030]  Kind of like what we talk about every week.
[20:05.390 --> 20:08.330]  An iconic canvas tote bag from The Strand.
[20:08.670 --> 20:10.890]  The undisputed king of the city's independent bookstores.
[20:10.890 --> 20:12.350]  That's according to the New York Times.
[20:12.930 --> 20:20.690]  And you'll also get an assortment of Strand memorabilia, including socks, which, yes, they do have, buttons, stickers, and postcards.
[20:20.690 --> 20:23.810]  So all of that for a pledge of $100.
[20:24.230 --> 20:30.110]  Just ask for the Strand package, 516-620-3602.
[20:30.110 --> 20:34.490]  You can also go to WBAI.org, or give to WBAI.org.
[20:34.530 --> 20:35.310]  Is that correct, Rob?
[20:35.430 --> 20:35.910]  That's correct.
[20:36.810 --> 20:38.870]  And simply pledge that way as well.
[20:39.030 --> 20:44.510]  As long as we still have some in supply, you'll be able to take advantage of that package.
[20:44.590 --> 20:57.070]  But the most important thing, though, is that you're donating to the radio station and keeping WBAI on the air so that we can outlive the next staple of radio that gets sold to Christian broadcasters somewhere.
[20:57.870 --> 20:58.830]  Yeah, it's amazing.
[20:58.970 --> 21:05.290]  I can't think of very many of the staple radio stations that I listened to growing up in the New York area that still survive.
[21:05.290 --> 21:24.770]  But we only dodged this bullet by 4 megahertz, and that goes to show how actually desirable that this chunk of the spectrum is to people who don't want to contribute to the local community, who just want to pipe their crap in from elsewhere and make you listen to it for great profits because they are paid by advertisers for the privilege of addressing your ears.
[21:24.950 --> 21:31.550]  Whereas this is all that keeps us going is what we're doing right now is asking our supporters, asking our listeners directly for their support.
[21:31.690 --> 21:49.410]  So if you go to give2wbai.org and look for the Strand package or call 516-620-3602 and ask for the Strand package, you will be part of the only thing that's kept this station going for very nearly 60 years, which is insane and incredible.
[21:49.670 --> 21:53.170]  You could also become a BAI buddy if you're interested in that.
[21:53.310 --> 21:56.890]  You can set up a small monthly donation of any amount you're comfortable with.
[21:57.110 --> 22:06.590]  And for that, you will be providing the station with a predictable income, which is something that's amazing in the not-for-profit public-supported sector.
[22:08.090 --> 22:12.050]  So give2wbai.org, 516-620-3602.
[22:12.430 --> 22:13.770]  You can get the Strand package.
[22:14.390 --> 22:15.690]  You can pledge any amount.
[22:15.710 --> 22:18.850]  If you're not interested in the package, you can still pledge any amount you're comfortable with.
[22:18.990 --> 22:19.990]  Every single dollar helps.
[22:20.010 --> 22:20.710]  We can get a different package.
[22:20.810 --> 22:21.810]  We have other packages too.
[22:21.950 --> 22:23.630]  Just ask the operator who answers the phone.
[22:23.910 --> 22:29.850]  Yeah, and you can pledge in the name of your favorite show, which we hope is off the hook, and go from there.
[22:30.050 --> 22:35.410]  I got to say though, and I heard a lot of shows that were really, really good.
[22:35.530 --> 22:38.170]  I heard a great discussion about de Blasio.
[22:38.470 --> 22:39.870]  I heard the evening news.
[22:39.990 --> 22:40.870]  I heard Trump Watch.
[22:41.310 --> 22:43.490]  You know, it made me want to keep listening.
[22:43.710 --> 22:46.390]  So there are so many good programs on this station.
[22:46.450 --> 22:47.890]  That's not even counting the musical programs.
[22:47.990 --> 22:48.730]  There are so many of those.
[22:48.970 --> 22:52.650]  So we might not be your favorite show, but I hope we're in the top 10 at least.
[22:54.110 --> 23:02.310]  It's a real public service and part of the mandate of the station to be informative, to have an eclectic mix of ideas and viewpoints.
[23:02.310 --> 23:06.270]  And part of that is because we're not sponsored by advertisers at all.
[23:06.390 --> 23:07.310]  We're sponsored by listeners.
[23:07.550 --> 23:16.830]  And those listeners accept that maybe they're not going to agree with everything, but the greater good is that we have informative local programming on the air here in New York City.
[23:16.990 --> 23:27.130]  And they realize and appreciate that their community and our society regionally and locally here is better off for having had that.
[23:27.270 --> 23:36.510]  And we want to continue to provide that to you and do our part in the areas that we focus on, hacking and computer technology and telephones.
[23:37.130 --> 23:46.250]  One other way, speaking of telephones, you can contribute is texting our call letters, WBAI, to the short code 41444.
[23:46.670 --> 23:51.490]  That's text WBAI to 41444.
[23:51.770 --> 23:52.350]  You'll get a link.
[23:52.550 --> 23:53.370]  You can follow that link.
[23:53.370 --> 23:54.390]  How do you spell that?
[23:56.790 --> 23:57.250]  41444.
[23:57.350 --> 23:58.250]  No, what do you text?
[23:58.250 --> 23:58.990]  How do you spell that?
[23:59.990 --> 24:02.590]  W-B-A-I.
[24:02.750 --> 24:03.010]  Got it.
[24:03.090 --> 24:03.290]  Okay.
[24:04.070 --> 24:05.330]  We got to be clear about these things.
[24:05.610 --> 24:09.270]  And just one last reminder about donating.
[24:10.370 --> 24:15.830]  The station is a 501c3 nonprofit, so your donations are tax deductible.
[24:15.990 --> 24:16.790]  Don't forget that.
[24:16.930 --> 24:22.370]  Imagine if we were fined 10,000 pounds every time somebody complained about us on the radio station.
[24:22.370 --> 24:23.410]  Think about that.
[24:23.590 --> 24:40.310]  We have this amazing outlet here in the middle of New York City where controversy is courted, where it's invited in, it's wined and dined, it's entertained, and it's spit right back out so that people can basically...
[24:40.950 --> 24:41.830]  I don't know.
[24:41.970 --> 24:42.810]  The analogy breaks down.
[24:42.930 --> 24:45.510]  But basically, we love controversy.
[24:45.710 --> 24:47.410]  And the more of it, the better.
[24:47.630 --> 24:49.050]  We invite it from our listeners.
[24:49.170 --> 24:51.810]  We love to hear phone calls.
[24:51.810 --> 24:53.030]  In fact, maybe we'll take phone calls later.
[24:53.550 --> 24:55.390]  I think it's about authenticity, too.
[24:55.550 --> 25:10.090]  I mean, the people here, you know, though there are disagreements and there is that wide-ranging content and viewpoints, it's an authentic source of information and, you know, whether you agree or not.
[25:10.250 --> 25:14.590]  And that's an important thing to foster and nurture here in the city.
[25:15.030 --> 25:16.290]  And it's not just off the hook.
[25:16.450 --> 25:24.210]  It's so many programs that are on this radio station that are controversial in nature, that say things that you might not agree with or that you do agree with that other people don't.
[25:24.670 --> 25:26.330]  You need that kind of dialogue.
[25:26.450 --> 25:41.270]  And I think that's part of what's happened in our country over the past few years is that we've either shied away from any kind of controversy whatsoever or we've been so antagonistic about it that the conversation itself becomes distasteful.
[25:41.730 --> 25:52.830]  Here, I like to think that we respect different opinions and that we are mostly interested in the dialogue, the back and forth because that is where change actually occurs.
[25:52.830 --> 25:54.850]  That's where ideas are born.
[25:55.050 --> 26:03.670]  And we want people to be suggesting things, want people to be realizing things as a result of what they hear at 99.5.
[26:03.790 --> 26:08.170]  In fact, I've scratched that into the table in front of me so that I don't forget the frequency again.
[26:08.830 --> 26:09.830]  99.5.
[26:10.130 --> 26:11.030]  Not 95.5.
[26:11.730 --> 26:13.690]  Still can't believe PLJ is going away.
[26:13.690 --> 26:14.070]  Wow.
[26:14.550 --> 26:15.390]  May 31st.
[26:15.510 --> 26:16.350]  That's going to be something.
[26:16.470 --> 26:20.210]  Of course, I haven't listened to them probably 20 years which is probably the problem.
[26:20.530 --> 26:24.170]  Most commercial radio, you know, what do they offer you?
[26:24.370 --> 26:26.050]  They offer you commercials, obviously.
[26:26.230 --> 26:31.290]  They offer you music that you could just as easily hear on your own device.
[26:32.630 --> 26:33.630]  Nothing controversial.
[26:33.970 --> 26:36.470]  Nothing really that different.
[26:36.870 --> 26:40.250]  And a lot of commercial radio broadcasters, they don't take chances.
[26:40.970 --> 26:42.690]  They don't like controversy.
[26:42.970 --> 26:47.710]  And they wind up being sold and changed over and over again.
[26:47.990 --> 26:48.730]  Well, that's another good point.
[26:48.850 --> 26:49.470]  They're paid.
[26:49.850 --> 26:54.210]  And, you know, the contributors, the producers of this station, they volunteer.
[26:54.210 --> 26:55.390]  They are dedicated.
[26:55.390 --> 26:58.070]  They pour their hearts into their work.
[26:58.450 --> 27:02.090]  All those shows you mentioned and us doing our part here.
[27:02.290 --> 27:03.950]  But that's an important factor.
[27:04.150 --> 27:13.470]  I mean, it is a labor of love and they're committed to, as we've described, the ideals of what this community radio thing is all about.
[27:13.550 --> 27:24.570]  But it is mostly a volunteer crew here of dedicated individuals and staff members at the station that keep things operating.
[27:24.570 --> 27:28.510]  I feel sorry for the people at WPLJ, you know, but they get paid.
[27:28.710 --> 27:32.710]  So, I feel sorry for them not getting paid anymore after May 31st.
[27:32.810 --> 27:33.810]  But we never got paid.
[27:33.970 --> 27:35.810]  So, welcome to the club.
[27:36.570 --> 27:41.250]  Also, the producers on this station by and large are members of the local community.
[27:41.490 --> 27:45.650]  We're all, we all are from this area or, you know, close enough.
[27:45.690 --> 27:52.870]  We are not piped in from, you know, some fancy station in Chicago where a bunch of professionals just beam the same junk out to every place.
[27:53.450 --> 28:07.850]  We are right here in person in real life and we are, we do what we can to address our local community as well as the wider sphere of things and that's something that is part of the merit of this station.
[28:08.010 --> 28:09.390]  It is a community radio station.
[28:09.530 --> 28:14.390]  And we are not Sirius XM channel whatever because we're not a satellite broadcaster.
[28:14.610 --> 28:16.170]  We are a radio station.
[28:16.410 --> 28:18.830]  We can say Sirius XM really sucks.
[28:19.050 --> 28:19.830]  They're terrible.
[28:19.970 --> 28:20.450]  They're awful.
[28:20.590 --> 28:21.510]  They're the worst people in the world.
[28:21.610 --> 28:22.070]  We can say that.
[28:22.770 --> 28:24.390]  And nobody's going to come for us.
[28:24.550 --> 28:26.030]  Nobody's going to fine us 10,000 pounds.
[28:26.330 --> 28:27.710]  We can express our opinion.
[28:28.050 --> 28:32.590]  And in corporate, corporate lingo, corporate world, you can't do things like that.
[28:32.710 --> 28:35.650]  Corporate censorship is really all-encompassing.
[28:35.710 --> 28:37.630]  And you might see it in your place of work.
[28:37.730 --> 28:40.370]  You might see it in your entertainment packages.
[28:40.730 --> 28:45.810]  You might see it in all kinds of insidious ways that you don't even realize your speech is being controlled.
[28:45.830 --> 28:49.470]  What you read, what you're exposed to, is filtered.
[28:49.770 --> 28:59.630]  And here at WBAI, we try and give you as much as you can chew on so that you can come right back at us with something that we didn't even think of.
[29:00.370 --> 29:01.390]  Filtered and safe.
[29:01.750 --> 29:02.570]  We're a little...
[29:02.570 --> 29:02.690]  Yeah.
[29:02.790 --> 29:04.910]  We're renegades here at WBAI.
[29:05.030 --> 29:07.870]  This is, you know, this is a little less safe.
[29:08.010 --> 29:10.130]  This is what we're about.
[29:10.130 --> 29:12.570]  It's the experiment of ideas here.
[29:12.610 --> 29:13.050]  Absolutely.
[29:13.270 --> 29:13.570]  Absolutely.
[29:13.570 --> 29:21.750]  So again, the Strand Package, 516-620-3602, pledge of $100, we'll get you that and it's really pretty awesome.
[29:22.110 --> 29:28.950]  516-620-3602 or give to WBAI.org, give the number to WBAI.org.
[29:29.550 --> 29:31.710]  Ask for the Strand Package.
[29:31.850 --> 29:34.750]  And it's $100, but, you know, imagine if five people pledge for that.
[29:34.830 --> 29:35.390]  That's $500.
[29:35.630 --> 29:36.210]  Half a thousand.
[29:36.590 --> 29:37.830]  And that really goes...
[29:37.830 --> 29:38.730]  That really counts.
[29:43.570 --> 29:45.210]  $100,000 more to finish that.
[29:45.730 --> 29:47.350]  And, wow, we have a new studio.
[29:47.430 --> 29:48.910]  That sounds better than what we have now.
[29:49.650 --> 29:56.570]  And what's interesting, I don't know if you guys noticed when you breezed through there earlier, but the lights on the equipment are on in the new studio.
[29:56.810 --> 29:58.790]  No, I didn't notice that, but I even noticed the frequency.
[29:59.410 --> 30:02.130]  Yeah, I missed out on the frequency, so I didn't even see the lights.
[30:02.330 --> 30:03.990]  So they must have wired some things up there.
[30:04.090 --> 30:04.690]  That sounds great.
[30:04.850 --> 30:06.010]  Things have been connected to things.
[30:06.150 --> 30:08.010]  There are electrons flowing through things.
[30:08.130 --> 30:08.730]  It is very exciting.
[30:09.330 --> 30:10.070]  That is illuminating.
[30:10.110 --> 30:10.990]  I have to pay more attention.
[30:11.150 --> 30:11.330]  All right.
[30:12.050 --> 30:14.350]  So again, 516-620-3602.
[30:14.450 --> 30:17.610]  I'm also going to give out our studio line for people to call in.
[30:17.910 --> 30:22.550]  And we'll go to the phones a little bit later and see what people are up to because we haven't been on the air in a couple of weeks.
[30:22.730 --> 30:25.450]  That number is 212-209-2877.
[30:27.230 --> 30:29.850]  So we'd like to hear your opinions on any of this.
[30:30.030 --> 30:32.510]  Yeah, if you still have a landline, you can use it.
[30:32.530 --> 30:36.550]  Well, it's interesting you should say that because Jerry has a landline.
[30:36.670 --> 30:39.370]  He writes to us off the hook.
[30:39.630 --> 30:43.750]  I'm an Assa County resident and this is an excerpt of a letter I recently received from Verizon.
[30:44.110 --> 30:44.410]  You ready?
[30:44.850 --> 30:46.810]  Speaking of corporate control.
[30:47.550 --> 30:49.750]  Clearer connections are a phone call away.
[30:50.070 --> 30:55.430]  We are updating the network in your area to fiber technology and removing our copper facilities.
[30:55.710 --> 30:58.470]  Fiber greatly enhances call quality and reliability.
[30:58.870 --> 31:01.090]  Our copper network will no longer be available.
[31:01.270 --> 31:07.950]  So please call us by June 17th, 2019 to schedule a visit to your home to avoid suspension of service.
[31:07.950 --> 31:10.590]  One of our friendly technicians will get you connected.
[31:11.790 --> 31:16.250]  Thank you for being a Verizon customer and please spread the word about this exciting news to your neighbors.
[31:16.990 --> 31:21.810]  Yeah, so they're forcing people off the copper and I think that really sucks.
[31:22.110 --> 31:29.510]  I mean, you can say what you want about fiber and there's good about fiber but there's also bad about fiber and it's about preference.
[31:30.790 --> 31:34.230]  And the thing that we like about copper is that it's resilient.
[31:34.230 --> 31:39.350]  It stays up for days when you don't have power and out on Long Island that happens.
[31:39.570 --> 31:45.250]  You know, you get a storm, you could be out of power for a few weeks and that's happened multiple times.
[31:46.570 --> 31:50.070]  I've had phone service for weeks when I didn't have power for weeks.
[31:50.430 --> 31:51.810]  Doesn't happen with Fios.
[31:52.150 --> 31:53.490]  Does not happen with fiber.
[31:53.710 --> 31:55.170]  You do not get power for that.
[31:55.250 --> 31:57.430]  You have to keep batteries stocked.
[31:59.530 --> 32:01.050]  it's simply not as resilient.
[32:01.310 --> 32:04.690]  Yeah, a lot of broadband companies operate the same way like cable modems.
[32:04.970 --> 32:08.010]  Their distribution will be relying on batteries as well.
[32:08.270 --> 32:19.790]  So even if you're able to keep your cable modem on or your Fios box up for 12 or 6 hours the amplifiers and other parts of that network don't have much power after that.
[32:19.890 --> 32:29.510]  Whereas the telephone line itself is centralized and operates on a much larger bank of batteries and generation power generators.
[32:29.530 --> 32:35.170]  There's good and bad about new technology and we celebrate the good but we also point out the bad.
[32:35.330 --> 32:45.890]  I know there are a lot of people in the technology world that would prefer we didn't do that but do you remember when it used to be you could turn a TV station in a split second and see the other TV station?
[32:46.050 --> 32:52.350]  Well now good luck with whatever device you have whether it's digital cable or satellite it takes 5 seconds for the channel to register.
[32:52.530 --> 32:53.150]  That's insane.
[32:53.490 --> 33:15.410]  Digital broadcasts you either have it or you don't there's no such thing as fringe broadcasting anymore you can't DX in other words you can't watch things from far away it's so much more controlled yeah there's increased ability to see more programs I suppose but it's the disadvantages are there as well so we have to acknowledge that.
[33:15.410 --> 33:30.150]  and I love how they're selling the upgrade to digital as an upgrade as a functional upgrade to somebody who was using copper landlines because and I was speaking about this with someone who was in audio production recently phone calls sound worse than they used to.
[33:30.350 --> 33:54.130]  Oh my god they sound terrible I mean digital the digital compression you get on VoIP which is what Fios is it just it adds so much distortion to the call when back when it was just an analog to analog connection you had a bandwidth in the middle you know no bass no treble but you had a good range of mids and it was a very clear call and how about how about cell phone the way calls sound over a
[33:54.130 --> 34:13.150]  cell phone it's unintelligible half the time you see people being interviewed on television and they're on a cell phone you don't understand what they're saying anymore back in the 1950s it sounded better and that's that's a sign of technology not moving in the right direction and we ourselves can prove this if you go into our archives at 2600.com slash off the hook and listen to some of our older
[34:13.150 --> 34:38.590]  episodes from the 80s and the 90s and listen to the listener phone calls they sounded better and we sounded better we sounded why is that I think it says also some a lot about the infrastructure itself not like if there's not a business plan for it to to make money they're just not going to maintain it at all I mean that it has languished or that it has fallen out of favor and reached this point I
[34:38.590 --> 34:41.470]  mean, I think it's kind of a sad state.
[34:41.630 --> 34:54.410]  I mean, there should be enough wealth, I think, in our country to have different options and keep different forms of infrastructure maintained such that they don't languish in this way.
[34:55.830 --> 35:12.130]  So that's another... and one other attribute that I'm thinking just in the conversation is that this style of telephone system, the public switch telephone design, was specialized.
[35:12.270 --> 35:13.930]  It was specialized for this form of communication.
[35:14.170 --> 35:19.610]  So in sort of the vein of what you're saying, Rob, these things were thought through.
[35:19.750 --> 35:21.430]  There's redundancy all over the place.
[35:21.430 --> 35:31.310]  The audio codex, as you were talking about, we're highly specialized to really well transmit and receive voice, full duplex, you know, both ways.
[35:31.310 --> 35:35.530]  You can shout over people and stuff and not have delays and all of these other sort of...
[35:35.530 --> 35:37.050]  I can talk the same time as you and you can hear me.
[35:37.230 --> 35:37.590]  Exactly.
[35:37.810 --> 35:41.490]  But on many phones today, only one person can be heard.
[35:41.490 --> 35:42.370]  If you could maybe stop interrupting me.
[35:42.470 --> 35:46.550]  Well, you wouldn't know I was interrupting you if we were speaking on a cell phone because...
[35:46.550 --> 35:47.790]  Yeah, but we aren't speaking on a cell phone.
[35:47.890 --> 35:49.310]  You'd be speaking and you wouldn't hear me talking.
[35:49.310 --> 35:49.670]  That's really rude.
[35:49.670 --> 35:52.630]  And the listeners would probably not be aware of it either.
[35:52.810 --> 35:53.850]  That's not how it was supposed to work.
[35:53.970 --> 35:54.170]  Okay.
[35:54.290 --> 35:55.290]  Anyway, the...
[35:55.730 --> 35:56.130]  Yeah.
[35:56.310 --> 35:59.990]  So my point is that, you know, the system is...
[35:59.990 --> 36:05.470]  The companies that are doing a lot of this have moved further and further and further away.
[36:05.650 --> 36:07.110]  A lot of this is media consolidation.
[36:07.510 --> 36:11.350]  But they're, I think, having a little schizophrenia over their purpose.
[36:11.490 --> 36:13.310]  They're not just telephone companies anymore.
[36:13.310 --> 36:16.450]  And this had a lot to do with, as I said, media consolidation.
[36:16.450 --> 36:18.410]  But they're, you know, moved to mobile.
[36:18.710 --> 36:33.870]  And just the differing platforms they're trying to inject into this network and becoming ISPs and this sort of convergence of all this stuff and tools and technologies in the sort of unified communications realm have muddied this, I think.
[36:33.870 --> 36:37.870]  And these telephone companies are less telephone company-like.
[36:38.150 --> 36:45.190]  And I think that's really unfortunate because the emphasis on redundancy and maintenance and stuff like that has fallen by the wayside.
[36:45.190 --> 36:45.870]  And here we go.
[36:45.950 --> 36:51.890]  It's about cramming people onto your network and selling them TV channels so that they're passive and not having conversations.
[36:51.890 --> 37:04.490]  And speaking of technology regressing, our own phone system here is nothing like the phone system we used to have, which was an analog system where the phone would just ring and ring and ring and you pick it up and eventually somebody would get on the air.
[37:04.630 --> 37:06.910]  Here, it intelligently bounces you around.
[37:06.910 --> 37:16.250]  So all those people who are calling in just now, you've probably all spoken to the general manager by now because eventually, for some reason, the phone's forward to his phone after about 15 rings or so.
[37:16.250 --> 37:22.430]  So if that happened to you, that was not you being on the radio, that was you being transferred somewhere where we have no control.
[37:23.210 --> 37:28.090]  So when we give the phone number out again, please call back and we'll be happy to put you on the air.
[37:28.470 --> 37:37.590]  But let me also tell people about another development that's taking place, San Francisco, the hub of technology where nobody can afford to live.
[37:37.730 --> 37:41.130]  We're about to be at the forefront of curbing potential abuses.
[37:41.130 --> 37:49.190]  The city is now on track to be the first municipality in the United States to ban use of facial recognition technology by the city government.
[37:49.490 --> 37:53.430]  On Monday, the Stop Secret Surveillance Ordinance passed a committee vote.
[37:53.430 --> 37:54.010]  What a great name.
[37:54.190 --> 37:58.510]  It will head to the San Francisco Board of Supervisors for a final vote on May 14th.
[37:58.770 --> 38:16.310]  Now, beyond prohibiting face surveillance, the bill also requires all the types of surveillance technologies, like automatic license plate readers, predictive policing software, and cell phone surveillance towers, to only be adopted by city agencies following a public notice and vote by the Board of Supervisors.
[38:16.530 --> 38:21.490]  The bill also requires clear policies for how surveillance technologies will be used by the city government.
[38:21.770 --> 38:24.690]  And as we know, surveillance technologies are everywhere.
[38:24.970 --> 38:26.690]  Your own cell phone has them.
[38:26.830 --> 38:28.970]  You know, they can track your location.
[38:28.970 --> 38:30.450]  They can recognize your face.
[38:31.010 --> 38:33.750]  There's all sorts of methods that are out there right now.
[38:33.750 --> 38:40.990]  So, I don't know how effective this will be, but it certainly is a step in the right direction to actually be addressing this.
[38:41.330 --> 38:55.250]  Yeah, a lot of these technologies have become really affordable, too, such that, you know, you yourself could hire or otherwise take advantage of some of these tools, let alone a municipality that has a large budget or, you know, a mandate for public safety and so on and so forth.
[38:55.470 --> 39:03.410]  Meanwhile, Google announced some new privacy tools yesterday, intended to give people more control over how they're being tracked on the go or in their own home.
[39:03.750 --> 39:09.970]  Uh, part of a broader effort by big tech companies to counter increasing scrutiny of their data collection practices.
[39:10.690 --> 39:15.650]  However, a few experts seem ready to celebrate Google's moves.
[39:15.950 --> 39:17.870]  Don't think they're trusted very much.
[39:18.510 --> 39:27.390]  Um, yeah, the CEO kicked off the company's annual developer conference by noting that the company wants to do more to stay ahead of constantly evolving user expectations on privacy.
[39:27.390 --> 39:29.890]  Constantly evolving user expectations.
[39:30.210 --> 39:33.790]  How about just stop tracking us and let us have our privacy?
[39:34.030 --> 39:35.010]  That's... is that evolving?
[39:35.350 --> 39:36.670]  I don't know if that's evolving.
[39:36.810 --> 39:37.870]  That's pretty much the default.
[39:38.390 --> 39:52.670]  Uh, that focus echoed throughout the day with the company demonstrating how many of its artificial intelligence capabilities, including some facial recognition and voice searches, are beginning to be processed on devices rather than by constantly sending information to company servers.
[39:53.070 --> 40:00.830]  But some critics say Google's privacy updates sidestep more substantial changes that could threaten the ad-driven business model.
[40:01.090 --> 40:05.910]  They're sort of marginal improvements, said Jeremy Tillman, who is the president of Ghostry.
[40:06.070 --> 40:09.190]  They provide anti-blocking and anti-tracking software.
[40:09.390 --> 40:17.710]  They're not bad, but they almost seem like they're designed to give the company a better messaging push instead of making wholesale improvements to user privacy.
[40:17.710 --> 40:26.490]  Now, Google also announced updates for its artificially intelligent voice assistant, as well as a cheaper pixel phone and a rebranding of its smart home products.
[40:26.870 --> 40:32.270]  Data privacy and security at Google and its big tech counterparts have been under the microscope for more than a year now.
[40:32.770 --> 40:33.650]  More than a year.
[40:33.730 --> 40:35.410]  That's if you're in the mainstream.
[40:35.410 --> 40:39.610]  If you listen to Off the Hook, it's been since the day before these companies existed.
[40:40.490 --> 40:47.890]  Facebook dedicated much of its own conference last week to connecting people through more private channels rather than broadly on the social network.
[40:48.030 --> 40:49.710]  But let's not be fooled by this.
[40:49.890 --> 40:51.950]  They still want to track your every movement.
[40:52.090 --> 40:54.750]  They just might be a little bit better at covering it up now.
[40:55.510 --> 41:01.490]  You know, you saw how it was treated at the Facebook conference.
[41:03.190 --> 41:07.530]  It's kind of a funny thing that, yeah, we're not known for privacy so much.
[41:09.210 --> 41:13.130]  Yeah, and they shouldn't be because that is not part of their business model.
[41:13.310 --> 41:18.810]  No, their business model is, by and large, to gather your information and sell it to the highest bidder.
[41:19.490 --> 41:33.110]  So, you know, pardon me if I remain a little bit dubious that they're doing anything to protect your privacy out of the goodness of their hearts when I think another part of their business model is, like, I don't think their CEO goes to the john without a full study on how it can increase shareholder value.
[41:34.110 --> 41:43.490]  Doesn't it strike you as a little funny that, like, they are having to play catch up with their evolving customer or market demands?
[41:43.650 --> 41:57.450]  It's like, these are the companies that basically want you to believe that they know better than you what you need ahead of the curve, you know, and that they've crunched the numbers and they're selling you the things that you don't even know you need,
[41:57.610 --> 41:58.070]  right?
[41:58.070 --> 42:03.310]  But here, they just totally blindsided, don't understand it.
[42:03.350 --> 42:04.650]  What was this?
[42:04.650 --> 42:07.330]  It's just so hard to keep track of what the market wants.
[42:07.450 --> 42:22.630]  Like, I just find that hilarious that, you know, they're having trouble understanding that privacy is important to their... or that privacy is becoming so important and constantly coming up as this thing that they just can't possibly figure out.
[42:22.630 --> 42:31.130]  That's just... it's pretty stunning to hear them feign that, you know, that this thing is something they can't keep up with.
[42:31.550 --> 42:36.610]  Okay, we're going to go to phones in just a moment after I turn to this story.
[42:36.890 --> 42:38.830]  Phone number 212-209-2877.
[42:39.190 --> 42:42.510]  If you want to pledge, 516-620-3602.
[42:42.650 --> 42:44.610]  This is the stupid story of the week.
[42:45.050 --> 42:48.510]  A student turned to cybercrime after college rejection.
[42:48.510 --> 42:56.790]  Yeah, a ruthless cybercriminal turned to online crime after he was turned down for a college computer course, a court has heard.
[42:57.010 --> 42:59.830]  Okay, first of all, I have a problem with the very first sentence of this story.
[43:00.590 --> 43:05.030]  If he was a ruthless cybercriminal, then he would have already turned to online crime.
[43:05.110 --> 43:11.830]  So to say that he turned to online crime after he was turned down for a college computer course tells me that it wasn't the college computer course.
[43:11.850 --> 43:14.070]  He was already a ruthless cybercriminal.
[43:14.170 --> 43:14.990]  I want to hear that story.
[43:14.990 --> 43:38.590]  A disgruntled student, Daniel Kelly, from South Wales, turned to black hat hacking, here we go, when he failed to get the necessary GCSE grades to study at College Sergar, a... that's the name of it, it's S-I-R-G-A-R, Sergar, a further education college in Carmenthenshire,
[43:38.710 --> 43:39.770]  and I'm not going to try to say that again.
[43:39.770 --> 43:47.130]  He went on to target companies large and small, as far afield as Canada and Australia, and attempted to hold bosses to ransom.
[43:47.470 --> 43:52.370]  The 22-year-old appeared at the Old Bailey to be sentenced... at a pub?
[43:52.470 --> 43:53.290]  That's what it sounds like.
[43:53.650 --> 43:55.850]  Got sentenced at Old Bailey.
[43:55.930 --> 43:56.550]  I don't know what that is.
[43:56.670 --> 43:58.030]  Sounds like coffee liqueur or something.
[43:58.030 --> 43:58.650]  I'm not sure.
[43:58.890 --> 44:03.110]  He went there to be sentenced after pleading guilty to 11 hacking-related offenses.
[44:03.450 --> 44:07.750]  The prosecutor described Kelly as a prolific, skilled, and cynical cybercriminal.
[44:08.690 --> 44:10.130]  That sounds interesting.
[44:10.910 --> 44:20.150]  Who was willing to bully, intimidate, and then ruin his chosen victims from a perceived position of anonymity and safety behind the screen of a computer.
[44:20.910 --> 44:24.270]  Between September 2013... what, they're just getting around to this now?
[44:24.470 --> 44:24.930]  2013?
[44:24.930 --> 44:25.870]  That's when this happened?
[44:26.270 --> 44:29.550]  Okay, between September 2013 and November 2015.
[44:30.670 --> 44:32.830]  I mean, Obama had just been re-elected.
[44:33.030 --> 44:33.850]  What course was it?
[44:33.910 --> 44:34.550]  Think how long ago that was.
[44:34.550 --> 44:43.650]  Kelly engaged in a wide range of activities from the deliberate damaging disruption of computer networks to blackmailing individuals and companies whose data had been stolen by hacking.
[44:43.950 --> 44:53.170]  While he largely remained anonymous online, his crimes were revealed and snippets retrieved from chat logs, interest in Bitcoin accounts, and downloaded material.
[44:54.630 --> 44:59.810]  The court heard that Kelly was just 16 when he hacked into college cigar out of spite or revenge.
[45:00.710 --> 45:11.530]  The distributed denial-of-service attack caused widespread disruption to students and teachers and also affected the Welsh government public sector network, including schools, councils, hospitals, and emergency services.
[45:12.070 --> 45:19.270]  After he was arrested and bailed in the wake of the chaos, Kelly continued his cybercrime spree for a more mercenary purpose.
[45:20.110 --> 45:32.250]  Kelly had been utterly ruthless, adding, where confidential and sensitive information had been stolen in the hack, typically the personal and credit card details of the company's clients, the defendant would threaten the company with the public release of the material,
[45:32.530 --> 45:36.850]  knowing and exploiting the fact that the release would risk the ruin of the company concerned.
[45:37.470 --> 45:43.370]  He hacked into TalkTalk, blackmailed Baroness Harding of WinSCum and five other executives for Bitcoin.
[45:43.370 --> 45:46.750]  The court... It's just so much fun reading a UK story like this.
[45:47.310 --> 45:48.410]  Yeah, the Baroness.
[45:49.250 --> 45:51.050]  You know, I don't even know...
[45:51.050 --> 45:56.750]  They don't seem to get to the part where he was rejected for this class.
[45:57.110 --> 46:00.570]  It sounds like he's just a jerk that likes to cause destruction.
[46:01.290 --> 46:03.150]  I don't know if it's anything deeper than that.
[46:03.290 --> 46:04.790]  But they're trying to tie it to...
[46:05.330 --> 46:09.870]  He was rejected from a college and that turned him into a ruthless cybercriminal.
[46:10.430 --> 46:11.510]  It's not really how it works.
[46:11.930 --> 46:18.330]  I'm just thinking that all those Hollywood celebrities who bribed their kids' ways into college, maybe were protecting us from a bunch of cybercrime, it turns out.
[46:18.370 --> 46:19.270]  Yeah, I think what could have happened.
[46:19.530 --> 46:21.670]  We'd have a bunch of rich idiots out there.
[46:22.170 --> 46:23.150]  All right, let's take a phone call.
[46:23.190 --> 46:23.530]  Good evening.
[46:23.710 --> 46:24.510]  You're on Off the Hook.
[46:25.770 --> 46:26.150]  Yes.
[46:26.150 --> 46:27.870]  It's Tom from the Bronx here.
[46:27.950 --> 46:28.410]  Hey, Tom.
[46:28.470 --> 46:28.830]  How you been?
[46:29.630 --> 46:30.010]  Phenomenal.
[46:30.350 --> 46:39.120]  I'd like to say this, that it strikes me that WPLJ, the radio station...
[46:39.120 --> 46:46.760]  A lot of radio stations today don't have the advertising they used to because of the...
[46:46.760 --> 46:49.640]  They put their ads on the internet.
[46:50.460 --> 46:54.960]  A lot of companies, and they just don't advertise the way they used to.
[46:55.140 --> 46:56.300]  Yeah, and a lot of...
[46:56.300 --> 46:57.560]  The listeners are there, though.
[46:57.560 --> 47:05.360]  A lot of radio stations depend on advertising, and when the ad revenue goes down, they definitely feel the effect of that.
[47:05.760 --> 47:14.860]  Well, of course, but the ads are going on the internet, in my opinion, and what happens is that the listeners are there.
[47:15.100 --> 47:17.820]  It's just that the advertising isn't there.
[47:17.820 --> 47:30.860]  Yeah, it ends up being like an underwriting thing, and a lot of stations then self-produce like an underwriting message or something that's a variation on ads, but the big money is not going behind it.
[47:30.900 --> 47:31.820]  I kind of see what you're saying.
[47:31.940 --> 47:32.940]  Is that correct?
[47:33.400 --> 47:34.360]  Yeah, yeah.
[47:34.400 --> 47:37.280]  That's the way I see it, anyway.
[47:37.280 --> 47:46.520]  Because there's so many stations that one station should at least think about putting some...
[47:47.040 --> 47:58.940]  Like, you still don't have TV shows that used to go on the radio for fundamentally the blind and poor that didn't have...
[47:58.940 --> 48:10.700]  They couldn't afford a TV, or today they can't even afford a computer to listen in, TV shows and everything.
[48:10.980 --> 48:26.660]  And I think part of getting rid of that situation where they get the TV shows over the radio is forcing people to buy their products of the computers, right or wrong.
[48:26.660 --> 48:45.380]  Yeah, because those platforms can offer ads and they can be enticing and kind of draw in consumers in other ways that radio, like the format you're talking about, can't, like in the older modes of advertising and so on.
[48:45.460 --> 48:51.040]  And another aspect of this I think you're bringing up here, may not realize it, is the cost.
[48:52.040 --> 49:02.540]  It may be a business decision to be able to target online and get directly to consumers that will actually buy your product or be interested.
[49:02.680 --> 49:03.380]  You can do a lot.
[49:03.500 --> 49:12.720]  The granularity of that is a lot more specific and can be much more accurately targeted than on the radio.
[49:12.720 --> 49:21.400]  So there's, I think, a lot of that sort of shrewd business choice as far as where people are putting the emphasis for their advertising.
[49:21.660 --> 49:30.580]  And by virtue, just the fact that radio is so broad, I mean, your ads are going to go to everyone and it may not be that specific.
[49:31.360 --> 49:32.800]  And so on and so forth.
[49:32.800 --> 49:42.460]  Yeah, but in other words, they're cutting a portion of the public out that they should service the public at least some way.
[49:43.320 --> 49:52.160]  Put on some TV shows over the radio for people that don't can't afford these computers or they can't afford a television or whatever.
[49:52.440 --> 49:53.800]  Well, that's the thing about radio.
[49:54.000 --> 49:55.080]  That's the thing about broadcasting.
[49:55.080 --> 50:02.540]  That makes it different from podcasts, is that anyone can simply turn it on and hear something.
[50:02.540 --> 50:03.640]  It doesn't cost anything.
[50:03.820 --> 50:04.740]  There's no tracking.
[50:04.920 --> 50:07.220]  We have no idea how many people are out there listening right now.
[50:07.680 --> 50:09.440]  On the internet, though, that all changes.
[50:09.440 --> 50:11.500]  You have to have access to a particular computer.
[50:11.680 --> 50:13.640]  You have to have access to a service.
[50:14.060 --> 50:17.420]  And when you connect to something, we can see.
[50:17.540 --> 50:18.480]  We can see your IP.
[50:18.640 --> 50:19.740]  We can see where you are.
[50:20.080 --> 50:22.160]  And I don't think a lot of people realize that.
[50:22.640 --> 50:26.340]  But also, you don't find things by accident on the internet, not really.
[50:26.740 --> 50:32.820]  Whereas tuning the FM dial or the AM dial, you'll find all kinds of things if you're exploring.
[50:33.120 --> 50:39.860]  But in other words, listen, they should have a little heart and do it and at least put some TV shows and stuff on the radio.
[50:40.080 --> 50:41.980]  Well, what TV show do you want to see on the radio?
[50:42.120 --> 50:43.780]  What TV show do you want to hear on the radio, that is?
[50:43.780 --> 50:44.760]  Well, whatever.
[50:45.000 --> 50:49.720]  I mean, like, any of the TV shows, at least put some stuff on there.
[50:50.180 --> 50:52.120]  Holidays, put some movies.
[50:53.140 --> 50:54.580]  Game of Thrones on the radio?
[50:55.000 --> 50:55.480]  Well...
[50:55.480 --> 50:55.980]  That would be something.
[50:56.280 --> 50:58.560]  Well, I don't... I've never seen that.
[50:58.560 --> 51:01.520]  It's so dark that, you know, you can put it on the radio, so why not?
[51:01.700 --> 51:02.840]  Nobody sees it anyway.
[51:03.200 --> 51:06.300]  Yeah, but what I'm saying is, like, Easter, for instance.
[51:07.460 --> 51:12.000]  They could have put on Moses, you know, the audio.
[51:13.060 --> 51:16.040]  They could have put Moses on the radio.
[51:16.560 --> 51:17.960]  Is Moses a TV show?
[51:18.540 --> 51:20.100]  It's a series I haven't been following.
[51:20.940 --> 51:22.400]  But anyway, Tom, we hear you.
[51:22.560 --> 51:25.620]  But thanks for your call and for your suggestions, and please keep on listening.
[51:26.040 --> 51:28.320]  Yeah, thank you for taking the call.
[51:28.500 --> 51:28.900]  All right.
[51:29.060 --> 51:31.980]  We're going to try and fit in one more in the time that we have left.
[51:31.980 --> 51:32.360]  Good evening.
[51:32.560 --> 51:33.240]  You're on Off the Hook.
[51:33.300 --> 51:33.580]  Go ahead.
[51:34.280 --> 51:35.520]  Hey, good evening, guys.
[51:35.520 --> 51:39.620]  You know, you were talking earlier about facial recognition, right?
[51:40.180 --> 51:40.880]  Yes, I was.
[51:41.520 --> 51:46.080]  And you hear the business that Joe Biden's son, Hunter, is in, right?
[51:46.840 --> 51:48.320]  He's in some kind of business.
[51:48.440 --> 51:48.840]  I'm not sure.
[51:49.040 --> 51:50.420]  I haven't been following that much.
[51:50.520 --> 51:55.040]  He sells facial recognition apps to the Chinese government.
[51:55.040 --> 52:02.560]  This was set up by his daddy, Joe, in the Obama administration with China, at a rate of $50,000 a month.
[52:03.280 --> 52:03.800]  Wow.
[52:03.800 --> 52:05.500]  And this was on Amy Goodman yesterday.
[52:05.740 --> 52:06.000]  Uh-huh.
[52:06.180 --> 52:07.140]  Yeah, they were...
[52:07.140 --> 52:11.980]  I think they were also talking about Thermo Fisher Scientific in the DNA collection.
[52:13.500 --> 52:16.200]  But the name of his... I can't think of the name of his company.
[52:16.340 --> 52:17.560]  It starts with an H, right?
[52:17.860 --> 52:23.160]  But what they're using it for is so the Chinese can round up the Muslim society there.
[52:23.420 --> 52:26.380]  And they put them in these relearning camps.
[52:26.700 --> 52:27.140]  Uh-huh.
[52:27.140 --> 52:28.540]  And it's really terrible.
[52:28.680 --> 52:29.580]  That's why, you know what?
[52:29.700 --> 52:31.760]  We just got to say no to Joe Doe.
[52:31.820 --> 52:32.500]  That's for sure.
[52:33.120 --> 52:33.360]  Okay.
[52:33.560 --> 52:36.700]  Well, let's add it to the list of no's because there's an awful lot of no's out there.
[52:36.820 --> 52:37.340]  But thanks.
[52:38.180 --> 52:38.680]  Thanks for your call.
[52:38.780 --> 52:39.460]  Thanks for the information.
[52:39.480 --> 52:43.280]  And it's definitely something that we're following here on the radio station.
[52:43.280 --> 52:58.580]  Yeah, on the subject, I wanted to quickly mention someone turned me on to this story at the 2600 meeting last week where if you're an Amazon shareholder, they have a shareholder's vote coming up sometime near the end of this month where you can vote on whether or not Amazon should sell its facial recognition technology to governments.
[52:59.420 --> 53:00.740]  I looked into the story.
[53:00.860 --> 53:02.820]  Some sources say the 21st or the 22nd.
[53:02.960 --> 53:06.540]  But if you're an Amazon shareholder, you should get in on that maybe and tell them what you think.
[53:06.860 --> 53:12.440]  I wanted to give out information before we go tonight on how to contact Chelsea Manning, who is still in prison.
[53:13.380 --> 53:17.260]  For refusing to testify against Julian Assange.
[53:17.360 --> 53:19.280]  It's unbelievable what they are putting her through.
[53:20.760 --> 53:22.120]  And she could be in there for a while.
[53:22.300 --> 53:28.380]  She could be in there for, I think, as long as the grand jury is meeting, which that could be up to a year or longer.
[53:29.040 --> 53:31.040]  Her address, Chelsea Elizabeth Manning.
[53:31.380 --> 53:34.900]  And this is the special number that she's been reduced to.
[53:38.120 --> 53:38.480]  A0181426.
[53:38.800 --> 53:39.400]  I'll say it again.
[53:44.120 --> 53:45.700]  That zero might be an O.
[53:45.840 --> 53:46.180]  I don't know.
[53:46.300 --> 53:48.040]  Make it look the same and it'll go through.
[53:48.560 --> 53:49.340]  The rest of it.
[53:49.640 --> 53:50.320]  William G.
[53:50.840 --> 53:51.280]  Truesdale.
[53:51.920 --> 53:52.700]  William G.
[53:52.900 --> 53:53.320]  Truesdale.
[53:53.420 --> 53:55.520]  T-R-U-E-S-D-A-L-E.
[53:55.720 --> 53:56.920]  Adult Detention Center.
[53:57.820 --> 53:59.860]  2001 Mill Road.
[54:00.000 --> 54:03.440]  2001 Mill Road, Alexandria, Virginia.
[54:03.960 --> 54:08.680]  And the zip code is 22314.
[54:11.060 --> 54:16.820]  There's all kinds of arbitrary regulations on what prisoners can receive from the outside world.
[54:18.320 --> 54:19.220]  These are the rules.
[54:19.340 --> 54:22.560]  Address your letter exactly as shown, as I've said.
[54:23.260 --> 54:25.300]  Send your letters on white paper.
[54:25.480 --> 54:26.260]  Don't ask me why.
[54:26.400 --> 54:26.980]  That's the rule.
[54:27.660 --> 54:29.540]  Use the mail service to send letters.
[54:30.060 --> 54:31.120]  Don't throw them over the fence.
[54:31.440 --> 54:34.660]  Include color drawings in your letters.
[54:34.660 --> 54:35.340]  I'm not sure.
[54:35.760 --> 54:37.960]  I guess you can do that if you want to.
[54:38.640 --> 54:41.480]  And you can sparingly send four by six photos.
[54:41.660 --> 54:43.420]  She can only have ten at a time.
[54:44.420 --> 54:47.860]  Don't send cards, packages, postcards, photocopies, or cash.
[54:48.500 --> 54:50.480]  Don't decorate the outside of the envelope.
[54:51.000 --> 54:52.780]  Don't send books or magazines.
[54:52.780 --> 54:54.900]  So yet another place that our magazine is not welcome.
[54:56.320 --> 55:02.620]  What she's going through right now is both admirable and horrible at the same time.
[55:02.780 --> 55:09.000]  Because taking a stand against something that you find to be objectionable, how many of us can do that?
[55:09.120 --> 55:10.580]  How many of us would do that?
[55:11.440 --> 55:21.420]  To be dragged into court and told you must testify against this person or else you're going to prison for a crime that you've already paid for?
[55:22.580 --> 55:26.000]  It's just unbelievable that this is what's happening right now.
[55:26.900 --> 55:28.980]  But at the same time, it's not surprising.
[55:29.440 --> 55:31.760]  Anyway, we'll keep you updated on that as well.
[55:31.880 --> 55:36.060]  You can write to us, OTH at 2600.com with your comments.
[55:37.260 --> 55:39.500]  And keep listening to WBAI.
[55:39.720 --> 55:41.260]  Next Wednesday, hopefully, we'll be on.
[55:41.400 --> 55:42.800]  If not, something else will be on.
[55:43.620 --> 55:47.400]  All kinds of amazing programs are on 24-7 on this radio station.
[55:47.480 --> 55:49.360]  So please call and pledge.
[55:49.520 --> 55:52.980]  516-620-3602 is our phone number.
[55:53.640 --> 55:58.100]  The Strand package is what we are offering tonight for a pledge of $100.
[55:58.100 --> 56:02.580]  You'll get the autographed copy of Cory Doctorow's new book, Radicalized.
[56:03.020 --> 56:05.640]  An autographed copy from Cory Doctorow.
[56:06.420 --> 56:08.840]  His book has just come out, getting rave reviews everywhere.
[56:09.140 --> 56:11.600]  You'll also get a canvas tote bag from the Strand.
[56:11.600 --> 56:14.680]  So everybody will know how cool you are, how literate you are.
[56:16.220 --> 56:18.300]  And inside that tote bag, you'll...
[56:18.300 --> 56:21.220]  It might not be inside when you get it, but you can put it inside, certainly.
[56:21.740 --> 56:23.380]  You'll get Strand socks.
[56:23.600 --> 56:26.440]  You'll get Strand buttons, Strand stickers, Strand postcards.
[56:26.900 --> 56:28.600]  All kinds of cool things like that.
[56:28.980 --> 56:32.060]  Pledge of $100, 516-620-3602.
[56:32.180 --> 56:35.300]  Or go to give2wbai.org.
[56:35.480 --> 56:37.580]  Give the number 2, wbai.org.
[56:38.420 --> 56:41.360]  Text WBAI to 41444.
[56:41.640 --> 56:42.380]  Did I get that right, Kyle?
[56:42.840 --> 56:45.840]  Yes, it's 41444.
[56:46.200 --> 56:47.460]  Text WBAI to that.
[56:47.620 --> 56:54.980]  And you can also become a BAI buddy and pledge a tiny amount every month, which turned into a big amount when you add it up over the year.
[56:55.460 --> 56:56.940]  And that's going to do it for us tonight.
[56:57.460 --> 56:59.260]  We are out of time.
[57:00.380 --> 57:01.380]  But we'll be back.
[57:02.920 --> 57:03.680]  Hopefully soon.
[57:04.700 --> 57:06.920]  And please support this place.
[57:07.160 --> 57:09.700]  Remember, all radio is transient.
[57:10.060 --> 57:11.600]  It can disappear at any moment.
[57:12.660 --> 57:15.020]  As we're learning, only 4 megahertz away.
[57:18.020 --> 57:19.460]  With that, have a good night.
[59:24.480 --> 59:31.180]  Join us on Father's Day weekend when WBAI once again serves as the media...