[00:01.030 --> 00:03.140]  Live from New York, it's Wednesday night!
[00:05.470 --> 00:09.070]  I just came up with that, I just came up with that.
[00:13.160 --> 00:14.380]  You're supposed to play the theme.
[00:21.800 --> 00:23.160]  Can anybody hear that?
[00:23.800 --> 00:26.500]  Yeah, that's it.
[00:26.500 --> 00:31.400]  I cut myself off shaving, now I can't make a call.
[00:32.080 --> 00:34.180]  We couldn't get much worse.
[00:35.060 --> 00:39.590]  I could, under the bomb, but the best is making the worst.
[00:40.230 --> 00:43.150]  I hope that's understood, under the...
[00:47.970 --> 00:51.750]  Oh man, that looks like a bit of a delay.
[00:52.150 --> 00:52.430]  Yeah.
[00:53.530 --> 00:53.830]  Yeah.
[00:59.600 --> 01:01.700]  Can you turn the damn music down, please?
[01:02.700 --> 01:05.470]  You just walk away, and that way it gets lower and lower.
[01:05.760 --> 01:09.520]  Hi everybody, it's off the hook, in a different format.
[01:10.360 --> 01:11.960]  Because, you know what, I can't see a damn thing.
[01:12.300 --> 01:13.100]  Ah, oh wow.
[01:13.660 --> 01:14.340]  Hi everybody.
[01:14.800 --> 01:19.100]  We don't usually have an audience, we don't usually have video, we're not usually on YouTube.
[01:19.260 --> 01:20.860]  We're usually upstairs in the radio station.
[01:21.920 --> 01:28.860]  But there is no radio station right now, because it was stolen from us on Monday, by the Pacifica Foundation.
[01:29.180 --> 01:30.900]  I guess that's rather harsh, but it's true.
[01:31.920 --> 01:32.820]  Oh, I'm Emmanuel.
[01:33.380 --> 01:34.140]  This is Rob T. Firefly.
[01:34.920 --> 01:35.320]  Good evening.
[01:35.800 --> 01:36.540]  This is Kyle.
[01:37.180 --> 01:37.540]  Hello.
[01:38.160 --> 01:39.400]  And that over there is Alex.
[01:39.960 --> 01:40.520]  Good evening.
[01:41.920 --> 01:45.240]  And it's my phone, which I'm putting in my pocket, because it's going to annoy the hell out of me.
[01:45.240 --> 01:46.100]  That's very unprofessional.
[01:46.440 --> 01:46.920]  Yeah, I'm sorry.
[01:47.700 --> 01:51.020]  And we threw this together a little bit early, actually.
[01:51.180 --> 01:52.180]  We're on from eight to nine usually.
[01:52.340 --> 01:59.620]  But we wanted to talk about some extra things and bring in other people and allow people to come up to the microphone and talk to us.
[01:59.680 --> 02:12.350]  But basically, what has happened as of Monday morning, early Monday morning, agents from the Pacifica Foundation, the parent company of WBAI came in, changed...
[02:13.100 --> 02:15.160]  I don't know if they changed the locks or just basically...
[02:15.160 --> 02:15.350]  They did.
[02:15.500 --> 02:15.780]  They did change the locks.
[02:16.010 --> 02:16.230]  They did.
[02:16.280 --> 02:16.940]  They changed the locks.
[02:17.010 --> 02:17.510]  They changed the locks.
[02:17.510 --> 02:17.900]  Okay, thank you.
[02:18.040 --> 02:18.880]  They changed the locks.
[02:18.980 --> 02:19.500]  We got that right.
[02:20.640 --> 02:28.840]  They disabled our broadcasting ability and took us off the air, replaced it with this, what I call elevator music for radicals.
[02:29.200 --> 02:36.900]  Basically, a whole lot of progressive material, some of which is quite good, but a lot of it is just filler.
[02:37.340 --> 02:38.360]  None of it is live.
[02:38.480 --> 02:39.580]  None of it is local.
[02:40.260 --> 02:45.220]  And that is what's been broadcasting over WBAI for the last couple of days.
[02:45.220 --> 02:50.880]  Now, we were very depressed and upset that this happened.
[02:51.640 --> 02:54.600]  There's always been rumors of things like this happening.
[02:54.840 --> 02:56.700]  And when I say always, I mean always.
[02:56.940 --> 03:06.700]  In the 60 years that WBAI has been on the air, there have always been conflicts within the station, within the network.
[03:07.220 --> 03:15.060]  And we are aware that there is a faction of people currently in power that think WBAI is a problem, not a solution.
[03:15.280 --> 03:18.480]  That we are responsible for all the debt in the network.
[03:18.600 --> 03:19.280]  Which is simply not true.
[03:19.360 --> 03:20.140]  It's easily provable.
[03:20.360 --> 03:21.780]  And we have time to get into that.
[03:22.740 --> 03:24.320]  So we weren't entirely surprised.
[03:24.760 --> 03:26.200]  And we were rather depressed.
[03:26.340 --> 03:27.840]  In fact, I was talking to Kyle about this.
[03:27.960 --> 03:30.280]  We were kind of moping around like the day after Trump got elected.
[03:30.840 --> 03:34.020]  You remember everybody in the city was just kind of like in a daze of walking around.
[03:34.020 --> 03:35.000]  What the hell just happened?
[03:35.560 --> 03:37.120]  That's how we were on Monday.
[03:37.940 --> 03:44.180]  Well, I think there was some solace in realizing that this has happened before, as you said.
[03:44.300 --> 03:46.620]  And it's always about control.
[03:46.800 --> 03:51.600]  And there's different ways that people will wrestle for that control.
[03:52.040 --> 03:56.480]  Sometimes it's through boards and voting and different mechanisms.
[03:56.480 --> 04:02.060]  This seems to have been a bit more on the legal side and with technical means.
[04:02.060 --> 04:20.680]  But when we kind of thought about it, I think we felt a little better realizing that, you know, the essence of what WBI is, is really the community that's producing stuff, programs like this, and everything we knew about what has been built in the last couple of years,
[04:20.970 --> 04:26.090]  specifically with the commons and the relocation to this site here in Brooklyn.
[04:27.000 --> 04:27.590]  Right.
[04:29.020 --> 04:34.940]  Anyway, later at night on Monday, we got kind of a surprise.
[04:35.180 --> 04:38.740]  We found out an injunction had been granted.
[04:39.040 --> 04:40.330]  I think I'm using the right words, Alex.
[04:40.940 --> 04:46.500]  And that basically said, Pacifica, you have to give the radio station back to WBI.
[04:46.680 --> 04:48.720]  You have to allow them access what you did was wrong.
[04:49.520 --> 04:50.860]  And we were thrilled.
[04:51.180 --> 04:54.960]  We expected the station to go back on the air right away or at least Tuesday morning.
[04:56.020 --> 04:57.740]  And here it is Wednesday night.
[04:57.830 --> 04:58.740]  It still has not happened.
[04:59.540 --> 05:01.560]  Pacifica is in violation of the injunction.
[05:01.760 --> 05:03.940]  They have not followed what they were supposed to do.
[05:04.680 --> 05:09.900]  They took the emergency alert system out of the station, making it impossible for us to broadcast legally.
[05:11.260 --> 05:12.580]  They've been rather vindictive.
[05:12.830 --> 05:16.020]  They trashed the place a bit.
[05:16.020 --> 05:17.900]  They took important equipment that we needed.
[05:18.180 --> 05:19.660]  They took things off the wall.
[05:19.940 --> 05:23.220]  I was told that they actually were taking folios.
[05:23.320 --> 05:26.120]  Folio was our program guide over the years.
[05:26.360 --> 05:35.500]  I mean, what kind of an asshole do you have to be to walk down the hallway and just rip down our accomplishments, our program directors, our program guides?
[05:36.480 --> 05:37.580]  That's what we're dealing with here.
[05:37.840 --> 05:40.660]  Those are the kind of people that came in and took us off the air.
[05:41.220 --> 05:42.160]  So here it is Wednesday.
[05:42.160 --> 05:43.720]  We still are not back on the air.
[05:43.780 --> 05:48.640]  And I'm going to ask Alex, as our resident attorney, what the f*ck?
[05:48.920 --> 05:49.740]  I can say that.
[05:50.280 --> 05:55.680]  You know, I just realized when you said asshole that we can curse because we're not subject to the FCC rules.
[05:55.680 --> 05:57.620]  And yeah.
[05:58.870 --> 06:03.700]  So before I answer Emmanuel's question, there is just one thing I do want to say.
[06:04.440 --> 06:08.860]  Shit, piss, f*ck, cunt, cocksucker, motherf*cker, and tits.
[06:09.060 --> 06:09.540]  Yes!
[06:09.940 --> 06:10.260]  Woo!
[06:10.480 --> 06:12.360]  And tits shouldn't even be on the list.
[06:12.700 --> 06:13.480]  Yeah, true.
[06:13.940 --> 06:14.040]  Yeah.
[06:14.280 --> 06:14.560]  Whatever.
[06:14.760 --> 06:15.720]  You know, men have tits.
[06:15.780 --> 06:16.460]  Women have tits.
[06:17.200 --> 06:18.000]  In any event.
[06:18.180 --> 06:20.980]  So a couple of things about the injunction.
[06:21.160 --> 06:24.860]  And we do have some sort of breaking news.
[06:25.520 --> 06:27.720]  With respect to the legal developments as well.
[06:28.400 --> 06:34.460]  But to go back to Emmanuel's point, this is a TRO or a temporary restraining order.
[06:34.800 --> 06:39.540]  And a TRO and injunction are terms that can be used interchangeably.
[06:39.740 --> 06:46.340]  You know, there may be some minor differences, but really they are bandied about in the same fashion.
[06:46.340 --> 06:56.920]  So this TRO was granted by Justice Nervo at a special term part of the New York Supreme Court and it was about 10pm on Monday.
[06:57.220 --> 07:14.380]  So the lawyer for WBI, Arthur Schwartz, who's also a host, I think really deserves a lot of credit for pulling this entire thing together so quickly, rushing before the court and getting a TRO granted in less than 24 hours from when this happened.
[07:14.380 --> 07:17.080]  It's pretty extraordinary what he was able to pull together.
[07:17.540 --> 07:24.860]  This order to show cause that he had filed prevents, once it was signed by the judge, it became a restraining order.
[07:24.860 --> 07:43.860]  And it is ordered that pending the hearing of this petition, which was Arthur Schwartz's verified petition, seeking a permanent restraining order, Pacifica Foundation, its officers, agents, and representatives are enjoined.
[07:43.860 --> 07:46.180]  And joined is a fancy way of saying they're prevented.
[07:46.660 --> 07:54.760]  And restrained from, one, continuing their seizure of the property, offices, and equipment of WBAI.
[07:55.100 --> 07:58.600]  Two, terminating the employees of WBAI.
[07:58.820 --> 08:05.260]  Three, preventing WBAI from broadcasting its regularly scheduled programming.
[08:05.260 --> 08:11.900]  And four, interfering in the orderly administration of the business and affairs of WBAI.
[08:12.040 --> 08:21.680]  As Emmanuel went into in some detail, that order certainly has not been complied with as of right now.
[08:22.420 --> 08:23.920]  There is equipment missing.
[08:23.920 --> 08:25.500]  We are not on the air.
[08:26.500 --> 08:39.740]  So, what Arthur Schwartz, the attorney for WBAI, did yesterday, when he realized that they were not going to expeditiously comply with the judge's orders, he filed in order to show cause to have them held in contempt.
[08:39.740 --> 08:47.340]  Because when you do not follow a judge's order, you can get in a shitload of trouble.
[08:48.280 --> 08:54.460]  Judges are not going to lightly issue a contempt order against somebody, though.
[08:54.460 --> 09:06.920]  If there's a good reason for not following the order, if you can show that you made some good faith progress towards this, or there's other issues involved, he's not going to fine you or hit you with a contempt order.
[09:07.160 --> 09:16.360]  I mean, the most punitive type of measure that a judge can issue with respect to a contempt order is to imprison somebody.
[09:16.900 --> 09:21.240]  And it would have to be very flagrant and egregious and ongoing for somebody to be imprisoned.
[09:21.240 --> 09:31.660]  But when there is a reparable injury, an injury to the freedom of speech like we have here with the shuttering of WBAI, it definitely ups the stakes, it ups the ante.
[09:33.090 --> 09:39.000]  And that brings us, I think, to the developments that we have learned about very recently this evening.
[09:39.160 --> 09:40.790]  And I actually don't even know about this yet.
[09:40.840 --> 09:42.100]  So, listen up.
[09:42.580 --> 09:43.000]  All right.
[09:43.340 --> 09:44.020]  I might be shocked.
[09:44.140 --> 09:45.740]  My face might show surprise.
[09:45.740 --> 09:46.140]  Yeah.
[09:46.520 --> 09:46.660]  I know.
[09:47.260 --> 09:53.050]  So, Pacifica has rushed to the first appellate division of New York.
[09:53.200 --> 09:57.740]  The first appellate division is an intermediary appellate court.
[09:58.020 --> 10:12.140]  The legal system in New York is a little bizarre because the lowest court, and I say this primarily for people who aren't lawyers or from out of New York, even lawyers from out of New York who are listening to this may be surprised.
[10:12.500 --> 10:16.320]  Because the lowest level court in New York is known as the Supreme Court.
[10:16.520 --> 10:17.220]  Go figure.
[10:17.600 --> 10:17.700]  Right?
[10:17.790 --> 10:18.700]  That's the trial level.
[10:19.080 --> 10:22.160]  So, our order to show cause was issue...
[10:22.160 --> 10:22.460]  I'm sorry.
[10:22.520 --> 10:28.120]  Our order to show cause and a temporary restraining order both emanated from the Supreme Court, which is the lowest level court.
[10:28.320 --> 10:35.290]  So, Pacifica went one level above that court and is seeking relief from the restraining order, relief from the injunction.
[10:35.290 --> 10:38.620]  To do that, they have to go to the first appellate division.
[10:39.050 --> 10:46.220]  That first appellate division, and this is important, that first appellate division is located at 27 Madison Avenue.
[10:46.620 --> 10:49.550]  It is, I believe, 25th Street and Madison Avenue.
[10:49.670 --> 10:50.700]  It's a beautiful building.
[10:51.620 --> 10:56.980]  It's definitely worth visiting and definitely worth visiting tomorrow at 915 a.m.
[10:57.180 --> 10:59.000]  Oh, that's a good time of day to be there.
[10:59.320 --> 10:59.840]  Absolutely.
[11:00.340 --> 11:01.820]  Is there a particular floor we should explore?
[11:01.820 --> 11:02.440]  Yeah.
[11:03.080 --> 11:03.560]  Well...
[11:03.560 --> 11:03.920]  Yeah.
[11:04.120 --> 11:05.120]  The first floor.
[11:05.280 --> 11:06.440]  The courtroom, actually.
[11:06.640 --> 11:06.780]  Oh.
[11:06.880 --> 11:09.140]  Because that's when this is going to be heard.
[11:09.440 --> 11:19.480]  So, Pacifica's application to wiggle out of this injunction will be heard by a panel of three judges tomorrow at the first appellate division.
[11:19.620 --> 11:21.480]  It's scheduled for 915 a.m.
[11:21.500 --> 11:23.980]  It doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be heard at 915 a.m.
[11:23.980 --> 11:25.600]  There's probably going to be some other cases there.
[11:25.600 --> 11:30.940]  But given the urgency here, there probably is a good likelihood that the judges might hear this case first.
[11:31.060 --> 11:40.140]  So, if anybody's planning on attending, and we very much encourage anybody who can attend to attend, Arthur Schwartz has asked that we have as many people in attendance as possible.
[11:40.440 --> 11:42.240]  And we need the media to show up.
[11:42.320 --> 11:43.780]  We need the media to show up, too.
[11:43.780 --> 11:50.620]  Because there, you know, I heard a phrase, actually, I think it was a tweet by Steve Rambam, while people said this.
[11:51.760 --> 12:00.620]  I was pointing out how nobody seems to be covering the story that the radio station got this injunction to come back on the air.
[12:00.760 --> 12:02.260]  And it wasn't being reported.
[12:02.400 --> 12:07.020]  But all the newspapers, all the TV stations had a story about BAI going off the air on Monday.
[12:07.320 --> 12:11.560]  And Steve said, yeah, they only report on the planes that don't land.
[12:11.560 --> 12:14.020]  They don't report when things go well.
[12:14.260 --> 12:15.360]  So we need that to change.
[12:15.520 --> 12:18.120]  We need for the media to show up and report on this story.
[12:18.160 --> 12:19.000]  Because it's not over.
[12:19.200 --> 12:22.420]  I know a lot of people were saying, yeah, after 60 years, BAI has closed its doors.
[12:22.640 --> 12:24.740]  It's not the first time BAI has closed its doors.
[12:24.880 --> 12:28.180]  There have been all kinds of conflicts in the past.
[12:28.380 --> 12:30.980]  And people thinking that it wasn't going to survive.
[12:31.520 --> 12:32.600]  But we are resilient.
[12:33.100 --> 12:34.600]  And more importantly, we're stubborn.
[12:36.420 --> 12:38.800]  And I think we have people on our side.
[12:38.860 --> 12:39.640]  At least I sure hope so.
[12:39.720 --> 12:40.760]  Tomorrow is a good test of that.
[12:40.760 --> 12:44.400]  But it's very important to get that information out there, too, to get that correction out there.
[12:44.620 --> 12:48.360]  Because it is very easy for people to just hear, oh, no, it's gone.
[12:48.360 --> 12:48.900]  It's done.
[12:49.100 --> 12:51.140]  I guess I'll find something else to do with myself.
[12:51.320 --> 12:52.760]  And then just move on.
[12:53.080 --> 12:59.760]  And, you know, everyone from various media outlets to the mayor himself has been talking about how sad it was that we've lost WBAI.
[12:59.840 --> 13:00.880]  We have not lost it yet.
[13:01.040 --> 13:04.180]  We've still got a shitload of stuff upstairs that's, you know, made to do radio.
[13:04.180 --> 13:09.640]  And we are excited about the possibility of getting back up there and using it.
[13:09.940 --> 13:11.160]  We just need to be allowed to.
[13:11.160 --> 13:28.880]  I just want to add that there's some evidence and anecdotal indication that a lot of the storytelling that was going on early in the week was because Pacifica itself had done a bit of a media blitz to get out in front and characterize and frame this story.
[13:28.880 --> 13:40.900]  And there's also a lot of what I would say mild propaganda on their feed that is currently on 99.5.
[13:41.120 --> 13:49.320]  They're giving news breaks at the top of the hour talking about, you know, the feeble position of BAI or stuff like that.
[13:49.320 --> 13:57.640]  I'm paraphrasing, but basically articulating that, you know, WBAI is floundering in some way in response and that's it.
[13:57.800 --> 14:02.140]  And that is a mischaracterization of what happened and what is currently occurring.
[14:02.200 --> 14:05.900]  And yet they're broadcasting that on our frequency.
[14:06.200 --> 14:18.440]  Now, if you want to talk about some scary Orwellian shit here, just take a look at the Pacifica Foundation's press release that was issued on Monday in conjunction with shutting down WBAI.
[14:19.000 --> 14:24.320]  The headline reads, WBAI FM reopens with the best of the Pacifica network.
[14:24.560 --> 14:31.520]  Yeah, that thing you saw upstairs where people were being kicked out and the locks changed and the link to the transmitter severed.
[14:31.580 --> 14:32.300]  That was reopening.
[14:33.140 --> 14:34.460]  That was a new beginning.
[14:34.780 --> 14:46.520]  Beginning today, Monday, October 7th, the nearly 60-year-old stalwart of New York's progressive radio, WBAI, 99.5 FM, will be transformed into an outlet for the best of the nation's progressive stars.
[14:46.840 --> 14:47.760]  Blah, blah, blah.
[14:47.760 --> 14:50.560]  So that is how they are spinning it.
[14:50.660 --> 14:54.860]  And it's up to us to make sure that that is not how it is told.
[14:55.040 --> 15:00.700]  That is not how it is received by listeners, by people in the city, people throughout the world.
[15:00.720 --> 15:07.700]  I've been getting emails from every corner of the world from people that are affected by BAI and are upset that this station has gone off the air.
[15:07.700 --> 15:09.180]  And yes, there's still a signal.
[15:09.360 --> 15:10.540]  Technically, it's not off the air.
[15:10.700 --> 15:16.220]  It's been replaced with a pre-programmed feed from across the country.
[15:16.680 --> 15:18.160]  But we are off the air.
[15:18.320 --> 15:21.020]  All the individual voices of WBAI are off the air.
[15:21.490 --> 15:23.760]  And that is something that is affecting people.
[15:23.900 --> 15:26.040]  That is what we are getting all the emails about.
[15:26.160 --> 15:27.440]  And that is what people are getting upset about.
[15:28.470 --> 15:41.160]  It's WBAI in name only, because we know, and that's what I was getting at, is that the essence and the control we have as a community is that what really makes WBAI WBAI is the great programming and the audience here in New York.
[15:41.160 --> 15:48.920]  And I wouldn't say the same thing about the kind of automated programming that they're doing in the name of WBAI.
[15:48.980 --> 15:55.160]  And it is not representative of what has made it a unique voice and what we've been a part of over the years.
[15:55.360 --> 16:01.520]  Now, I just would like to also focus on some of the mistruths that have been passed around.
[16:02.180 --> 16:09.140]  In a letter that was posted, Pacifica says, the next step will be to relaunch WBAI.
[16:10.380 --> 16:15.140]  And that is what they have been saying to all the media that have been asking them questions.
[16:15.140 --> 16:18.800]  Yes, this is just so that we can reorganize and relaunch.
[16:19.640 --> 16:24.720]  However, they told the landlord of this building that we will not be needing the space anymore.
[16:25.960 --> 16:29.380]  So that, to me, doesn't say that they're planning on relaunching anything.
[16:29.520 --> 16:31.100]  That tells me they're planning on vacating.
[16:31.440 --> 16:35.920]  You certainly can't find the more reasonable space in the city to operate a radio station from.
[16:35.920 --> 16:39.340]  We've cut down costs tremendously over the years.
[16:39.700 --> 16:41.580]  And we have the perfect space right here.
[16:41.760 --> 16:44.780]  In fact, we even just finished building a studio upstairs.
[16:45.480 --> 16:46.440]  They don't care.
[16:47.000 --> 16:50.860]  We just finished the studio, state of the art, on the street side.
[16:52.000 --> 16:54.200]  It is going to be an amazing facility.
[16:54.460 --> 16:56.020]  We are building the place out.
[16:56.220 --> 17:08.660]  And we have a community, excuse me, a community of people coming in here night after night, putting on shows, having seminars, doing radio shows, all in conjunction with the cafe that we are in right now.
[17:09.420 --> 17:11.840]  So this is a community, a thriving community.
[17:12.770 --> 17:15.920]  And we don't believe that they intend to relaunch anything.
[17:15.920 --> 17:18.850]  We believe they are trying to just simply vacate the premises.
[17:18.990 --> 17:22.790]  And let me also point out, doing that is going to hurt this place as well.
[17:23.010 --> 17:29.510]  This cafe, the commons in Brooklyn, 388 Atlantic Avenue, please come by, support it, buy a sandwich or something.
[17:30.210 --> 17:31.990]  These people have been amazing to us.
[17:32.070 --> 17:35.680]  And they are dependent on the people that we bring in as well.
[17:35.680 --> 17:38.510]  So to simply cast them aside as well, that's cold.
[17:38.680 --> 17:39.330]  That's callous.
[17:39.470 --> 17:42.590]  And that shows you don't give a crap about what's going on in this neighborhood.
[17:43.090 --> 17:46.400]  These people literally flew in from California to do this to us.
[17:46.770 --> 17:48.990]  And we're here to say we're not going to take it.
[17:49.960 --> 17:50.400]  Absolutely.
[17:50.700 --> 17:56.440]  And it's especially jarring that they're painting this as some sort of triumphant relaunch of WBAI.
[17:56.990 --> 17:59.070]  WBAI is not the rooms upstairs.
[17:59.070 --> 18:01.940]  It is not the electronics that power the place.
[18:01.940 --> 18:11.750]  It is the people who have been running this station, who have been volunteering their time, who have been making not just this show, but so many other shows, so many producers around here.
[18:11.920 --> 18:13.010]  I was in a meeting last night.
[18:13.210 --> 18:17.750]  The producers, a bunch of producers through an emergency meeting to talk about what's going on.
[18:17.790 --> 18:21.180]  And I was in a room packed, standing room only, shoulder to shoulder.
[18:21.180 --> 18:22.750]  Some folks who are here now were there.
[18:23.070 --> 18:25.050]  And that is WBAI.
[18:25.160 --> 18:33.900]  A bunch of people who have banded together and who are looking into how they can get back to doing what they do best, which is make good radio.
[18:35.030 --> 18:36.570]  And that is our station.
[18:36.770 --> 18:38.230]  That is the power behind this place.
[18:38.460 --> 18:45.960]  The power behind this place is not a bunch of glitzy press releases from an organization that has decided to just come in and pull a switch.
[18:45.960 --> 18:49.030]  Now, you know, you might ask, okay, what's in it for them?
[18:49.200 --> 18:50.610]  What are they doing here?
[18:50.920 --> 18:53.810]  Well, WBAI is a unique place.
[18:54.200 --> 18:59.990]  You might know that non-commercial radio stations in general operate below 92 on the FM dial.
[19:01.750 --> 19:03.960]  So WBAI is 99.5.
[19:04.200 --> 19:06.110]  We're right smack in the middle of the FM dial.
[19:06.200 --> 19:06.790]  How did that happen?
[19:07.420 --> 19:08.290]  Amazing story.
[19:08.290 --> 19:13.200]  In February, some guy donated a radio station to Pacifica back in 19...
[19:13.200 --> 19:14.180]  Actually, probably in 1959.
[19:14.570 --> 19:15.920]  And it went on the air in 1960.
[19:16.900 --> 19:18.940]  And that is how WBAI came to be.
[19:19.090 --> 19:20.180]  They didn't believe him at first.
[19:20.270 --> 19:25.270]  They didn't think he was going to give them this full power radio station and allow them to broadcast on it.
[19:25.350 --> 19:26.400]  But that's exactly what happened.
[19:26.470 --> 19:30.210]  So that's how we have a non-commercial station in the middle of the FM dial.
[19:30.330 --> 19:35.660]  What that license is worth, it's at least tens of millions of dollars, maybe more.
[19:36.080 --> 19:37.970]  So what is in it for Pacifica?
[19:38.620 --> 19:46.790]  If they are able to gut this radio station, if they're able to make it so nobody is here anymore, well, they've got a pretty valuable commodity on their hands.
[19:46.970 --> 19:50.880]  And they can sell that and fund the rest of their network, which is what they want.
[19:51.030 --> 19:57.530]  They've convinced themselves, or they're trying to convince you, that WBAI is the heart of all the problems of the network.
[19:57.590 --> 19:58.050]  But it's not.
[19:58.210 --> 20:02.710]  I mean, we certainly do have our problems, but so do the other four stations that are a part of that network.
[20:02.710 --> 20:09.830]  Those four stations being WPFW, Washington, D.C., KPFT in Houston, KPFK in Los Angeles, and KPFA in Berkeley.
[20:10.770 --> 20:12.790]  They all have their problems.
[20:13.010 --> 20:14.680]  They all have their financial shortfalls.
[20:14.790 --> 20:16.460]  They all have catastrophes and crises.
[20:16.710 --> 20:20.590]  And every station is there to help out the other stations when that happens.
[20:20.770 --> 20:22.750]  Now, we've had a few crises in recent years.
[20:22.810 --> 20:24.010]  You know what the most recent one was?
[20:24.270 --> 20:25.420]  You guys might have heard about this.
[20:25.460 --> 20:26.270]  The Empire State Building.
[20:26.270 --> 20:29.160]  We had our transmitter on the Empire State Building.
[20:29.400 --> 20:31.850]  Good building to have your transmitter on, but it was expensive.
[20:32.070 --> 20:45.030]  And especially after 9-11, when other options kind of disappeared, well, we were in a situation where the landlord basically said, we have you over a barrel and we're going to keep increasing the rent year after year.
[20:45.200 --> 20:46.460]  We were stuck in a lease.
[20:46.680 --> 20:49.140]  Stuck in a lease for at least a decade, maybe more.
[20:49.140 --> 20:51.970]  And it had what was known as an escalator clause.
[20:52.230 --> 20:55.380]  So I think it went up 9% every single year.
[20:56.590 --> 21:05.380]  So that's kind of short-sighted to sign a lease like that in the first place, where you're stuck in a situation where you keep paying more and more money every single month.
[21:05.550 --> 21:11.610]  And I think we were up to the point where we're paying $60,000 a month just to have an antenna on top of a big building.
[21:13.310 --> 21:14.570]  Stupid, stupid idea.
[21:15.250 --> 21:16.270]  Whose idea was that?
[21:16.710 --> 21:18.250]  Pacifica, not WBAI.
[21:18.250 --> 21:19.810]  We get blamed for it.
[21:19.920 --> 21:20.920]  It's our expense.
[21:21.250 --> 21:23.420]  But it wasn't us that did that.
[21:23.900 --> 21:26.790]  WBAI did not sign the lease at 120 Wall Street.
[21:27.090 --> 21:29.440]  Wall Street, that's kind of an expensive address.
[21:29.750 --> 21:30.810]  That was Pacifica too.
[21:31.330 --> 21:33.710]  But WBAI, highest rent in the network.
[21:34.030 --> 21:34.610]  Guess why?
[21:34.730 --> 21:36.090]  Because you're rented on Wall Street.
[21:36.710 --> 21:43.570]  So all these things that WBAI is being held up as an example of financial problems.
[21:43.680 --> 21:47.110]  Well, a good part of those problems were started by the network.
[21:47.110 --> 21:48.350]  We were forced into them.
[21:48.700 --> 21:49.660]  And yeah, New York is expensive.
[21:49.810 --> 21:50.570]  We all know that.
[21:50.760 --> 21:54.500]  And some stations are able to get their transmitter facilities donated.
[21:54.720 --> 21:55.640]  We're not so lucky.
[21:56.020 --> 21:58.660]  But I think we're doing pretty damn good for what we have.
[21:58.660 --> 22:03.050]  And I know the amount of people that showed up today, nobody's getting paid, but they still showed up.
[22:03.240 --> 22:03.830]  We care.
[22:04.520 --> 22:06.660]  And that's always the case with community radio.
[22:08.360 --> 22:10.200]  So don't believe the things you're being told.
[22:10.960 --> 22:13.850]  WBAI may have its financial problems, but so does KPFA.
[22:14.160 --> 22:15.070]  So does KPFK.
[22:15.280 --> 22:15.940]  They all do.
[22:16.580 --> 22:18.740]  And if they don't want the station anymore, you know what?
[22:18.810 --> 22:20.050]  Give it to the people here.
[22:20.520 --> 22:21.220]  We'll run it.
[22:21.310 --> 22:22.020]  We'll do fine.
[22:22.800 --> 22:31.980]  And talking of the finances, as you may know if you're a regular listener, we are in a, or we were in, when we were shut down, we were in a fund drive, which was doing well.
[22:32.180 --> 22:36.460]  By all accounts, we were pulling in a good amount of donations and support.
[22:36.790 --> 22:40.420]  And the switch was pulled, what was it, two days into the drive?
[22:41.180 --> 22:41.980]  Prior to it.
[22:42.050 --> 22:43.330]  I think it was almost a week.
[22:43.330 --> 22:43.760]  Yeah.
[22:44.110 --> 22:46.680]  The, but, but we were doing well.
[22:46.780 --> 22:48.420]  We were pulling in a decent amount of support.
[22:48.570 --> 22:57.640]  There was a, there was talk at the meeting last night of a large donation we had received from a WBAI listener, which somehow went to Pacifica instead of us.
[22:57.850 --> 22:58.700]  $500,000.
[22:59.220 --> 22:59.260]  Yeah.
[22:59.610 --> 23:01.240]  It was, it was actually a bequest.
[23:01.970 --> 23:07.220]  And, which basically means we inherited it from someone who died and left it to us.
[23:07.400 --> 23:14.760]  And that, that bequest was basically taken by Pacifica rather than WBAI and then Pacifica still turned around and said, you're not pulling in enough money.
[23:15.220 --> 23:25.810]  And this, this is, this is indicative of just the whole, I want to point out, um, the Twitter for WBAI is still under the control of us here at the actual station, not Pacifica.
[23:26.090 --> 23:33.850]  And, um, it is a very good, uh, it is a very good place to look to for, uh, for updates, um, as, as we get them in and as we can talk about them.
[23:33.960 --> 23:41.140]  So if you follow WBAI on Twitter, um, you can, you can see pictures of the meeting last night and, uh, you know, get notes about things that are going on.
[23:41.140 --> 23:46.740]  Um, but, uh, uh, it is just, uh, yeah, that's, that's where it is.
[23:46.850 --> 23:47.590]  That's where it is.
[23:47.740 --> 23:50.900]  And meanwhile, Radio Pacifica has a Twitter account that, uh, they haven't used in months.
[23:51.200 --> 24:00.220]  Yeah, I think they locked themselves out of it, but, uh, uh, they took WBAI.org, um, um, the domain, they took control of that, locked people out.
[24:00.350 --> 24:02.160]  So we're trying to figure out how to get access to that again.
[24:02.590 --> 24:06.380]  Um, but they, they're making things as, as difficult as possible.
[24:06.380 --> 24:11.330]  Maybe some of, some of you after the show, maybe we can, uh, uh, exchange ideas on how to, how to best do that.
[24:11.480 --> 24:11.570]  Yeah.
[24:11.680 --> 24:14.280]  And that's not only the website, WBAI.org.
[24:14.500 --> 24:17.380]  That is our entire public archives are inaccessible.
[24:17.590 --> 24:22.700]  The email addresses of people who are doing official email through the station, including our management, all that is inaccessible.
[24:23.040 --> 24:27.700]  And, uh, so yeah, that, it makes it really hard to, to do what we're trying to do here.
[24:27.700 --> 24:31.260]  By the way, we have a chat going on, on YouTube right now, and I'm looking occasionally at it.
[24:31.310 --> 24:35.790]  Jay asked, would carrying a sign standing outside Pacifica Foundation in Berkeley be useful?
[24:36.110 --> 24:37.240]  I might be able to do so.
[24:37.310 --> 24:37.760]  Jay, please.
[24:37.880 --> 24:38.810]  Yes, that would be helpful.
[24:38.980 --> 24:45.290]  In fact, if a whole bunch of you stood outside Pacifica Foundation in Berkeley, maybe we can get the address, um, that might get their attention.
[24:45.420 --> 24:46.440]  That might get the media's attention.
[24:46.610 --> 24:52.760]  That might be a, you know, a black eye to their PR, uh, and, and get people talking about what they're doing to this radio station here.
[24:53.700 --> 24:56.980]  Uh, with respect to tomorrow's court dated as well.
[24:56.980 --> 25:06.830]  Some of the things that, that Rob had mentioned that are critical to the station, that's going to be the subject of an order to show cause that will be held later on in the day too.
[25:07.180 --> 25:09.090]  So, there's two things that could happen.
[25:09.290 --> 25:24.590]  Uh, tomorrow morning, again, at 27 Madison Avenue is where the first appellate division of panel of judges is going to hear an appeal to vacate the temporary restraining order that was issued against Pacifica.
[25:24.720 --> 25:29.050]  The order that compels them to reopen the doors and allow us to broadcast.
[25:29.460 --> 25:36.780]  And there are four critical components of this, and we touched on some of them, um, that right now, they, they haven't complied with that order.
[25:37.070 --> 25:49.180]  So, tomorrow, if we win at the first appellate division, and this temporary restraining order persists, then there will be another hearing on the contempt order.
[25:49.180 --> 25:56.900]  Another order to show cause that Arthur Schwartz has filed because Pacifica has failed to comply with the original order.
[25:57.350 --> 26:06.920]  And if you don't comply with the judge's original order, that's how you can find yourself held in contempt, or at least on the wrong end of a judge's anger.
[26:07.380 --> 26:10.110]  Now, Alex, they have to have somebody in New York for this, right?
[26:10.480 --> 26:12.500]  Well, they're going to send their counsel there, for sure.
[26:12.520 --> 26:12.660]  Okay.
[26:12.780 --> 26:13.260]  Absolutely.
[26:13.460 --> 26:16.700]  And I'm sure they're going to be up all night preparing for this argument.
[26:16.700 --> 26:32.900]  So, the, the four critical components of WBII that are going to be addressed tomorrow are the antenna that is operated or, or rather housed by Durst Broadcasting LLC at Ford Times Square, the domain name and the website, the bank account, and the email addresses.
[26:33.200 --> 26:37.550]  Without that, the station cannot operate as it regularly operates.
[26:37.550 --> 26:39.570]  It cannot conduct orderly business.
[26:39.570 --> 26:46.760]  And these are four things that Pacifica has not lifted a finger, as far as we know, to comply with the judge's order.
[26:47.180 --> 26:49.500]  So, two things are going to be happening tomorrow.
[26:49.700 --> 26:51.310]  First is the appeal of the TRO.
[26:51.500 --> 26:55.200]  If we win that, then there's going to be another hearing at 2 p.m.
[26:55.240 --> 27:06.040]  in the Supreme Court, which again is the lowest court in New York, the trial level court, and that's going to be to determine whether or not Pacifica is going to be held in contempt.
[27:06.040 --> 27:10.140]  So there's going to be a hell of a lot going on tomorrow, so definitely pay attention.
[27:10.330 --> 27:15.550]  And the real battle, I think, is going to be in that first appellate division.
[27:15.720 --> 27:20.550]  So there's many people that can show up there tomorrow, 27 Madison Avenue, 25th and Madison.
[27:21.280 --> 27:24.200]  It's going to be interesting, and it's an absolutely gorgeous building.
[27:24.980 --> 27:27.350]  I would definitely recommend going.
[27:27.350 --> 27:34.780]  By the way, Jay writes that the Pacifica Foundation is located at 1925 Martin Luther King Jr. Way in Berkeley.
[27:35.180 --> 27:36.500]  So that's where it is.
[27:36.540 --> 27:42.070]  If you want to show up there tomorrow with some signs and let them know how you feel about this and what their actions are.
[27:42.590 --> 27:47.780]  Speaking of the antenna, the tower, I have some more info on that.
[27:48.440 --> 27:53.570]  Had we not moved it, we would be spending right now $65,000 a month in 2019.
[27:53.570 --> 27:56.220]  We're spending $12,000 a month.
[27:56.380 --> 28:00.200]  Still a lot, but that's a lot less for our current location.
[28:00.720 --> 28:09.590]  So we kind of fixed Pacifica's mistake by moving to a much cheaper location and not affecting the transmitter all that much.
[28:09.590 --> 28:11.480]  We still get more or less the same range.
[28:12.070 --> 28:14.740]  But again, I'm reading from an article here.
[28:15.400 --> 28:20.200]  The long-term lease was signed in 2006 by an interim executive director.
[28:20.200 --> 28:22.540]  That's what they called them, interim executive directors.
[28:23.520 --> 28:23.960]  IEDs.
[28:24.040 --> 28:25.640]  You ever think of...
[28:25.640 --> 28:26.810]  Isn't that a roadside bomb?
[28:26.980 --> 28:27.720]  Yeah, that's what it is.
[28:27.740 --> 28:28.070]  Exactly.
[28:28.350 --> 28:31.540]  And it's an IED that did this to us today or Monday.
[28:32.230 --> 28:33.880]  And certainly living up to their name.
[28:34.220 --> 28:40.680]  But they signed that lease in 2006 with little to no input from the board of directors all around the station.
[28:40.680 --> 28:49.640]  So we keep getting forced into these positions where we have to cough up all this money, and then we get blamed when we can't cough up all this money.
[28:50.850 --> 28:58.110]  So if we're able to make our own decisions, I think we'll be able to make better decisions and run the place a whole lot smoother.
[29:01.100 --> 29:10.000]  And once again, I just want to shout out this place, the Commons Cafe, the Brooklyn Commons, 388 Atlantic Avenue in lovely downtown Boerham Hill.
[29:10.240 --> 29:14.520]  And to you guys here too, you know, make sure you're getting something from the cafe.
[29:14.640 --> 29:15.120]  Get something to drink.
[29:15.240 --> 29:21.220]  Get something to snack on, because it is really vital that we keep this place going.
[29:21.220 --> 29:31.340]  I mean, like we said, they're our landlord, and right now there does not exist an entity, I think, still at BAI that can pay the damn rent.
[29:32.400 --> 29:37.780]  And it's not for want of trying, but it's because we don't have access to our stuff, our bank accounts.
[29:37.880 --> 29:39.520]  Everything was yanked from us.
[29:40.220 --> 29:46.200]  This is the first time we broadcast down here in any way, although I guess we're not broadcasting the way we'd like to be.
[29:46.200 --> 29:53.040]  But a lot of shows have used this space too, a lot of shows, because there are connections here to our broadcasting equipment upstairs.
[29:53.840 --> 29:56.880]  And yeah, live shows happen here, and they're pretty great.
[29:57.040 --> 30:03.620]  I did stand up at a benefit event for this place about a year ago, and it's a nice venue.
[30:03.620 --> 30:17.220]  Yeah, we've wanted to incorporate basically the myriad of different resources that the Commons and the CAFE has integrated as a part of welcoming WBAI and building out the resources here in Brooklyn.
[30:17.500 --> 30:29.920]  And I guess we would have preferred to have debuted in this way under better circumstances, but we're thankful that it's here so that we can have the discussion the way we are.
[30:29.920 --> 30:32.500]  So many ideas for projects.
[30:33.120 --> 30:34.620]  We want to do a show on the roof.
[30:34.780 --> 30:35.500]  We have roof access.
[30:35.700 --> 30:38.060]  So, hey, what a great idea to actually do an outdoor show.
[30:38.260 --> 30:40.800]  We just built a new studio, for God's sake.
[30:40.880 --> 30:45.860]  We spent a year building a studio, and Pacifica moves in and says, no, leave the premises.
[30:46.380 --> 30:51.280]  This is an entity that does not know what we are doing, that does not appreciate what we are doing.
[30:51.740 --> 30:56.740]  So that alone, that should tell you that it's not realistic what they are saying to us.
[30:56.740 --> 31:01.760]  And this is why we have to fight this at every stage.
[31:02.540 --> 31:05.200]  Well, this isn't the first time that there was a coup either.
[31:05.280 --> 31:13.780]  And I always bring this up, but it was almost 20 years ago when we fought another takeover, potential takeover of WBAI.
[31:14.040 --> 31:22.800]  And Pacifica seems to have learned from that coup because they didn't lock us out then, and they probably should have if they were going to not repeat the mistakes of the past.
[31:22.800 --> 31:27.800]  But this was when the Pacifica National Board started to have a lot of corporate interests stacked on it.
[31:28.000 --> 31:48.200]  And again, the license to broadcast for WBAI was in jeopardy because back then, before the proliferation of the internet, the station 99.5 FM in the middle of the dial in Manhattan, in New York City in general, was extraordinarily valuable.
[31:48.200 --> 31:54.200]  I remember people estimating its value back in 2000, 1999, at around $300 million.
[31:55.440 --> 31:56.780]  It's probably gone down.
[31:56.920 --> 32:02.500]  That's a little high, but it's that commercial transferability, I think, that makes it appealing.
[32:02.680 --> 32:02.880]  Yes.
[32:02.880 --> 32:05.880]  Because the network can say they have integrity.
[32:05.880 --> 32:26.140]  Oh, we're still whatever their mission is, but they're just basically covering for maybe other advancements they haven't made as far as attracting new listenership or, you know, having other flagship powerful stations or, you know, otherwise competing with the distribution,
[32:26.320 --> 32:31.760]  the disparate sources of, like, podcasting and all the other competition for attention right now.
[32:31.920 --> 32:39.200]  I mean, radio in general is up against a lot of other entertainment options that people have.
[32:39.440 --> 32:55.320]  So they're, you know, kind of coming in and cannibalizing something and then going to turn around and act as though they're still some sort of principled progressive voice when they've done incredible harm.
[32:55.480 --> 32:59.520]  And done it in secret in many weeks, you know, in advance.
[32:59.520 --> 33:08.120]  As we said, the planning for this kind of thing to execute it would have taken a lot of weeks to do, especially coordination with a transmitter site.
[33:08.120 --> 33:17.560]  And, you know, no one was notified and there was really no opportunity to intervene until it had happened.
[33:17.800 --> 33:21.040]  And that, I think, speaks volumes about the tactics.
[33:21.200 --> 33:32.160]  They know that if... they know not to f*ck with WBAI, like, come in and try to tell them that they can't do and operate the way they have for so long.
[33:32.160 --> 33:39.800]  So they came in and basically cut the operational and technical side out of the equation to basically...
[33:39.800 --> 33:53.120]  and then proceed with sort of legal and other kinds of, I guess, media threats and fear in general to get people at odds, to get people questioning what's going on and get different framing and narratives.
[33:53.180 --> 33:55.860]  It's always done in the dead of night or the crack of dawn.
[33:56.000 --> 33:57.440]  They did the crack of dawn this Monday.
[33:58.120 --> 34:05.300]  I think before the sun even rose, they were in looting the place or just taking things that we needed to survive.
[34:05.400 --> 34:06.440]  They took our archives.
[34:06.680 --> 34:11.520]  They came and they actually took the archives of what we had broadcast in the past week.
[34:11.600 --> 34:12.580]  Why would you do that?
[34:12.700 --> 34:16.500]  Why would you want to just erase the history of what we did the week before?
[34:17.760 --> 34:24.420]  Tearing down program guides and all kinds of other things that have nothing to do with what they are trying to accomplish.
[34:24.480 --> 34:25.500]  It's just vindictiveness.
[34:25.500 --> 34:27.820]  Like amounts to redecorating, I guess.
[34:28.280 --> 34:32.000]  That's an insult to morale, I think.
[34:32.120 --> 34:35.180]  Or at least taking away what morale there was.
[34:35.320 --> 34:36.500]  And it just sort of...
[34:36.500 --> 34:45.300]  just speaks to, you know, dissolving and trying to take away from the kinds of community that is there in the space.
[34:45.540 --> 34:47.640]  And those folios were part of it.
[34:47.720 --> 34:49.820]  It was great to see the history, but it's just petty.
[34:50.360 --> 34:57.000]  Yeah, and it's really important to point out, I think, that, you know, this was all sudden as hell from our end.
[34:57.240 --> 34:58.540]  None of us saw this coming.
[34:59.380 --> 35:01.120]  None of us knew this would happen the way it did.
[35:01.120 --> 35:04.300]  But all indications are that this was planned.
[35:04.520 --> 35:06.120]  This was calculated.
[35:06.420 --> 35:11.880]  This, you know, every element of what they did was calculated to have the worst possible impact on us.
[35:12.080 --> 35:22.360]  And I really, you know, we can question the decisions that Pacifica has made on WBAI's behalf in the past, you know, renting this and signing that bad contract.
[35:22.360 --> 35:27.140]  But what they did was so planned, it was just...
[35:27.140 --> 35:28.100]  It's...
[35:28.100 --> 35:34.440]  Our heads are still spinning, coming to terms with everything that's happened to put us in the position we're in now.
[35:34.700 --> 35:38.580]  And, you know, for an organization that's basically been our...
[35:38.580 --> 35:39.880]  It's our parent organization.
[35:40.660 --> 35:45.460]  You know, you would think that our interests would be theirs, that they would align.
[35:45.460 --> 35:47.100]  They have a radio station.
[35:47.220 --> 35:47.800]  We make radio.
[35:48.020 --> 35:49.100]  You know, you'd think it all kind of mesh.
[35:49.600 --> 35:54.880]  But just having this done to us by our own higher-ups is jarring.
[35:55.240 --> 35:56.120]  And, yeah.
[35:56.400 --> 35:57.700]  Sometimes parents are abusive.
[35:59.400 --> 36:00.120]  Well said.
[36:00.220 --> 36:00.620]  Well said.
[36:01.160 --> 36:01.560]  That's...
[36:01.560 --> 36:05.100]  Can we talk about the threats to political speech that were sort of a precursor?
[36:05.600 --> 36:06.620]  Or should we not get into that?
[36:06.620 --> 36:07.420]  Well, we can get into that.
[36:07.460 --> 36:11.520]  But I just wanted to touch on what Alex said about the history about 20 years ago.
[36:11.980 --> 36:13.140]  Something similar happened.
[36:13.140 --> 36:17.180]  I think it was in December of 2000 when they came and changed the locks.
[36:17.340 --> 36:18.400]  But they didn't kick us out.
[36:18.460 --> 36:19.800]  They didn't take the station off the air.
[36:19.960 --> 36:22.480]  They simply purged the station.
[36:22.620 --> 36:31.300]  They made sure that people that disagreed with the direction it was going were just simply banned from the building.
[36:32.680 --> 36:34.660]  And that went on for about a year.
[36:34.900 --> 36:38.140]  We got into some trouble because we called things as we saw them.
[36:38.260 --> 36:41.020]  And the only reason we didn't get kicked off the air was because of our listenership.
[36:41.020 --> 36:51.200]  Because we had so many people behind us that would not allow them to simply throw us off the air or not let us speak about what was going on in front of our eyes.
[36:51.320 --> 36:54.220]  There was one time where there was a demonstration happening while we were on the air.
[36:54.400 --> 36:57.160]  There were cops inside the station arresting people.
[36:57.420 --> 37:00.020]  And I was expected to go on the air and not mention that.
[37:00.480 --> 37:03.740]  And no, when something's happening right in front of you, you talk about it.
[37:03.920 --> 37:05.740]  And yeah, I got chewed out for doing it.
[37:05.740 --> 37:09.120]  But I said, I'm going to do it again if you have cops come into the radio station again.
[37:09.320 --> 37:10.940]  That is what our job is.
[37:11.020 --> 37:11.740]  That is what we do.
[37:13.320 --> 37:17.640]  This takeover, something rather interesting also happened.
[37:17.800 --> 37:24.920]  We were given an offer through channels that we could possibly get back on the radio.
[37:24.920 --> 37:28.880]  They could put our show on the air here at 99.5 FM.
[37:29.360 --> 37:33.620]  If we submitted the program first for approval to make sure it was okay.
[37:34.180 --> 37:38.600]  And we promised not to say anything negative or refer to what was going on.
[37:39.460 --> 37:43.600]  And I don't know about you, but I don't live in the Soviet Union.
[37:44.260 --> 37:45.600]  We did not agree to that.
[37:45.680 --> 37:49.500]  We told them publicly we are not ever agreeing to a situation like that.
[37:49.500 --> 37:51.720]  I think the offer has been withdrawn.
[37:52.520 --> 37:57.240]  But I would rather have integrity and be off the air than be a sellout and be on the air.
[37:57.940 --> 37:58.420]  Yeah.
[37:58.580 --> 38:00.300]  And to go back to that...
[38:00.300 --> 38:01.440]  Yeah, I think that's right.
[38:01.620 --> 38:02.460]  That's exactly right.
[38:04.520 --> 38:06.240]  No scabs on off the hook.
[38:06.520 --> 38:07.240]  That's it.
[38:07.700 --> 38:19.460]  And to go back to what happened, you made a really good point, Emmanuel, because when they attempted this coup nearly 20 years ago, they failed to take us off the air.
[38:19.780 --> 38:26.020]  And it was because we continued to broadcast, because we had that means of reaching the listeners, that the listeners took direct action.
[38:26.360 --> 38:28.360]  And people stormed the station.
[38:28.600 --> 38:30.360]  They refused to leave during our show.
[38:30.480 --> 38:45.700]  That was when I took your cell phone, you had it linked to the line, and the NYPD had no clue that what they were saying and broadcasting out, saying, if you don't leave, you're going to get arrested, was going out over the airwaves.
[38:45.700 --> 38:47.780]  And when we left the station that day...
[38:47.780 --> 38:48.820]  Do you remember that?
[38:48.980 --> 38:49.340]  Oh, yeah.
[38:49.500 --> 38:50.100]  It was incredible.
[38:50.100 --> 38:52.240]  A lot of people came to the station after hearing that.
[38:52.280 --> 38:54.380]  They drove many miles to get there.
[38:54.520 --> 38:55.520]  All over the place.
[38:55.520 --> 38:57.960]  We walked out of that station, and there were people with drums.
[38:57.960 --> 38:58.880]  It was cold.
[38:59.080 --> 38:59.840]  It was like...
[38:59.840 --> 39:07.220]  It was incredible to see that, but because we still had a voice, we could reach the listeners, and the listeners didn't let this happen.
[39:07.460 --> 39:08.960]  We organized in Manhattan.
[39:09.160 --> 39:10.320]  We organized on Long Island.
[39:10.500 --> 39:11.820]  Remember, there were many meetings.
[39:12.640 --> 39:18.160]  People that were arrested even came out to Long Island and organized at the Cinema Arts Center in Huntington.
[39:18.500 --> 39:20.180]  It was all over the place.
[39:20.300 --> 39:22.280]  There was a lot of action, a lot of coordination.
[39:22.900 --> 39:24.700]  This time, they didn't make that mistake.
[39:24.780 --> 39:27.760]  They took us off the air, because they don't want us to reach you.
[39:27.860 --> 39:32.040]  They don't want us to reach the listeners, because they're afraid that we will win again.
[39:32.360 --> 39:34.980]  And you know, there's a very important lesson to be learned here.
[39:35.520 --> 39:37.160]  And a lot of people say this to us.
[39:37.260 --> 39:38.140]  They say, why don't you just...
[39:38.140 --> 39:38.860]  You're doing it now.
[39:38.860 --> 39:39.460]  Yeah, do a podcast.
[39:39.780 --> 39:41.040]  You don't need the radio station.
[39:41.160 --> 39:41.680]  You can do it...
[39:41.680 --> 39:43.020]  Yeah, we can have a show.
[39:43.020 --> 39:48.000]  We can talk to people that know what website to go to and what stream to listen to.
[39:48.440 --> 39:54.700]  But there's a particular magic about radio, because you're tuning the dial, and you're coming across something that you're not expecting.
[39:55.060 --> 39:56.600]  You don't know how many people are out there.
[39:56.740 --> 39:59.360]  You can't trace them and see who's listening to you.
[39:59.860 --> 40:03.540]  And most importantly, you get all kinds of listeners you never would get normally.
[40:03.540 --> 40:07.700]  If you listen to the people who call into our show, it's incredible.
[40:08.500 --> 40:13.500]  I mean, your grandmother could be calling in, and she's sure not going to be finding us on a stream.
[40:13.740 --> 40:14.880]  That's the magic we want.
[40:14.980 --> 40:16.080]  That's what radio is all about.
[40:16.320 --> 40:22.920]  And if radio is something that is passe, that doesn't matter anymore, well then why?
[40:23.060 --> 40:25.100]  Why do they keep coming and trying to take it from us?
[40:25.680 --> 40:27.140]  They know the value of it.
[40:27.220 --> 40:28.320]  That's one thing they get right.
[40:28.600 --> 40:35.820]  Radio is incredibly valuable, and that's why we have to stand up and preserve this place, it's protected from being taken over.
[40:36.520 --> 40:39.680]  Radio is so vital for communications.
[40:39.940 --> 40:45.220]  And yes, we broadcast on the net as well, but we do not want to give up 99.5 FM.
[40:45.780 --> 40:46.220]  Absolutely.
[40:46.520 --> 40:51.740]  We can never be just a podcast with what we do here and have it mean the same thing, have it work the same way.
[40:52.120 --> 41:05.520]  I have never met the people before and after us on your podcast players playlist, but the people I've met here at WBAI, my fellow producers, the staff, everyone who walks in and out of those doors upstairs to make this place happen.
[41:06.420 --> 41:08.120]  I've made some of my best friends here.
[41:08.360 --> 41:19.000]  I have been privileged to learn all sorts of things and exchange all sorts of info and the sorts of things that only happen at a radio station where people have this kind of common goal.
[41:19.800 --> 41:21.120]  And I don't think we could...
[41:21.120 --> 41:30.660]  We couldn't go to a commercial radio station where we are beholden to whoever happens to be paying to advertise that week and censoring what we're saying and that sort of thing.
[41:30.880 --> 41:32.760]  No, this place is magical.
[41:33.160 --> 41:39.300]  This radio station, you know, if you go by pure logic, and I say this during fun drives, but you know, it means a lot now.
[41:39.840 --> 41:43.120]  This place really shouldn't exist by any stretch of the imagination.
[41:43.420 --> 41:45.140]  The fact that it does is insane.
[41:45.580 --> 41:49.620]  And losing it means that something irreplaceable would have gone.
[41:50.480 --> 41:51.980]  It's not just any radio station.
[41:52.140 --> 41:54.820]  It is WBAI that is important here.
[41:54.960 --> 41:56.920]  And that's what needs saving right now.
[41:56.920 --> 42:02.440]  And the people who ask us, or ask the station, why don't you have commercials?
[42:02.580 --> 42:03.860]  Or why don't you take underwriting?
[42:04.740 --> 42:08.420]  Our answer to that is always, well, then we couldn't say Microsoft sucks.
[42:08.540 --> 42:09.780]  We couldn't say Verizon sucks.
[42:09.900 --> 42:12.260]  Or whatever company you want to say sucks.
[42:12.560 --> 42:13.700]  Microsoft sucks!
[42:14.260 --> 42:15.020]  Thank you.
[42:15.100 --> 42:18.120]  And we can say WBAI sucks.
[42:18.240 --> 42:19.520]  But we, you know, we back it up.
[42:19.520 --> 42:32.520]  If we say something critical about the radio station, a few weeks ago, this is what Kyle was referring to, we basically were told that Pacifica did not want us to be criticizing Donald Trump.
[42:32.760 --> 42:37.440]  And that seems pretty bizarre, you know, Pacifica radio, progressive radio.
[42:37.940 --> 42:38.460]  Yeah.
[42:38.640 --> 42:41.600]  And we're still trying to figure this one out.
[42:41.600 --> 42:46.340]  We have, we have some, some firsthand paperwork on this.
[42:46.340 --> 42:47.420]  Explain the logic.
[42:47.740 --> 42:51.260]  It was like to protect BAI from itself.
[42:51.260 --> 42:53.260]  I've talked to so many people about this.
[42:53.460 --> 42:57.060]  We have to not be controversial because we might make waves or something.
[42:57.260 --> 43:05.240]  Well, it was, it was more that, um, during an election, which apparently we're already in, um, you can't criticize a candidate.
[43:06.040 --> 43:09.860]  Or if you criticize a candidate, that's seen as endorsing the other candidate.
[43:09.860 --> 43:10.660]  Bullshit.
[43:10.820 --> 43:11.360]  It's not true.
[43:11.600 --> 43:14.740]  But this is the narrative that was being fed to us.
[43:14.800 --> 43:19.740]  And it was being fed to us by the IED, the interim executive director.
[43:19.960 --> 43:24.020]  We have, we have the letter of reprimand to our own general manager.
[43:24.260 --> 43:30.200]  Our own general manager was forced to suspend somebody for a week because she dared to say dump Trump.
[43:30.800 --> 43:35.360]  So, the next week after hearing about this, we went on the air and we said dump Trump many times.
[43:35.580 --> 43:37.900]  To, to dare them, throw us off the air.
[43:38.140 --> 43:38.900]  Nobody said anything.
[43:39.520 --> 43:45.680]  So, this was being used as a means to control the general manager, to get him to do something.
[43:45.740 --> 43:54.540]  I know, I know he was told that, um, he had to also demand that those programs be pre-recorded and submitted for approval and I think he refused to do that.
[43:55.360 --> 43:57.180]  Um, but this is what we're dealing with.
[43:57.180 --> 43:59.900]  We're dealing with, with people that you would think would know better.
[44:00.680 --> 44:02.100]  Saying things like this to us.
[44:02.220 --> 44:04.840]  Saying that on WBAI we can't criticize Trump.
[44:05.560 --> 44:12.620]  And it's just this weird zombie world we start living in when we, when we take these kinds of things seriously and don't fight back.
[44:12.900 --> 44:15.300]  Well, now we're in a position where we have to fight back.
[44:15.420 --> 44:19.100]  And I think we need to study these things that we're being, we're being told.
[44:19.300 --> 44:36.260]  Yeah, I think a lot of it was to be a distraction but also to kind of gauge the, uh, the, the infighting and this sort of fearfulness levels and what other, uh, sort of social aspects of an inherently, you know, messy community entity like, like we know WBAI to be on occasion.
[44:36.900 --> 44:46.740]  That, that, that, um, chaos ensuing was, uh, sort of a, an insight into how, uh, a station like this might react if attacked in other ways.
[44:46.740 --> 45:01.700]  So, uh, we were starting to get, uh, uh, sort of an uneasy feeling given those kinds of requests which were wholly uncharacteristic of anything, uh, we've been presented with by management or anybody from the station or the network for that matter, um,
[45:02.020 --> 45:02.680]  before that.
[45:02.860 --> 45:10.740]  So, um, that sent up, uh, quite a few red flags and was going on in the background as we were gearing up for this, uh, fundraising.
[45:11.300 --> 45:15.320]  Um, uh, I guess six weeks it's supposed to be.
[45:15.320 --> 45:18.080]  It would have, would have been our first week of it, uh, for us.
[45:18.160 --> 45:19.980]  And as I think was said earlier, I was wrong.
[45:20.040 --> 45:24.780]  It was, it's been going on for a week and, and, uh, we were not, we were preempted the first week.
[45:24.940 --> 45:28.200]  So, yeah, we would have started our, uh, fundraising in earnest.
[45:28.500 --> 45:34.360]  And, um, and yet, uh, it took a huge turn for the worse.
[45:34.360 --> 45:42.180]  Just basically the shock of what we saw coming as maybe, mm, this is, this is misguided.
[45:42.440 --> 45:47.040]  We, we, we, we don't read these, um, community radio standards in the same way.
[45:47.440 --> 45:50.820]  Um, and especially not for a place like WBAI.
[45:50.980 --> 45:59.360]  And in times like, uh, we're experiencing politically where there is a lot of, uh, news and, uh, discussion of politics constantly.
[45:59.680 --> 46:00.860]  It's, it's unavoidable.
[46:00.860 --> 46:15.120]  So, um, yeah, the, the, uh, fell swoop of, of actually removing the station entirely, um, was surprising, but it was not, um, there, there were some indicators given the, uh, sort of clamp down on speech.
[46:15.240 --> 46:26.360]  And credit, I think, to the general manager and the station for resisting as much as they could, uh, these sort of unreasonable requests from Pacifica to, uh, to start reviewing content and stuff.
[46:26.360 --> 46:35.560]  And then, um, we, we saw that, uh, thereafter when, when, uh, everybody was pulled as, as sort of a, a leaf or a, a peace offering.
[46:35.600 --> 46:39.800]  But as, as was said, and I think other people said it too, it's, it's scabbing.
[46:39.960 --> 46:47.040]  It's, it's basically to make their, um, playlist and, and, uh, DJ farm look more local.
[46:47.260 --> 46:49.280]  Like, uh, oh, well, off the hooks there.
[46:49.440 --> 46:51.520]  Well, nothing's wrong with BAI.
[46:51.700 --> 46:53.120]  It's, it's just business as usual.
[46:53.120 --> 46:55.480]  No, we're not going to participate in that.
[46:55.700 --> 47:00.120]  And the programming that is airing right now is actually not at all WBAI.
[47:01.560 --> 47:06.000]  Um, we have a couple of phone numbers actually, um, from the press release.
[47:06.280 --> 47:08.300]  You know, that press release WBAI reopens.
[47:09.100 --> 47:14.160]  Um, they put a phone number on that, I guess, for press, but, uh, you guys have every right to call it as well.
[47:14.340 --> 47:18.400]  5 1 0 3 1 6 9 7 8 3.
[47:19.000 --> 47:25.260]  And the Pacifica phone number is 5 1 0 8 4 9 2 5 9 0.
[47:25.460 --> 47:30.360]  And I'm sure they'd love to hear your opinions, your comments on just what is going on with the network.
[47:31.060 --> 47:32.200]  Uh, Alex, did you have something new?
[47:32.360 --> 47:34.680]  Uh, I always have something to say, unfortunately.
[47:34.680 --> 47:51.740]  Um, I, I think Emmanuel, Kyle, and Robert are absolutely right here in, in connecting the dots in terms of the censorship that was coming from on high, the request for self-censorship, oversensitivity to hypothetical problems.
[47:52.380 --> 48:04.020]  I mean, one thing we have to think about here is, you know, WBAI is, you know, very often in the same sentence as pinko liberal commie radio station, right?
[48:04.240 --> 48:06.920]  And we're very proud of that to a, to a large extent.
[48:07.360 --> 48:18.880]  Uh, there's been no shortage of statements about political candidates, elections, and we have 60 f*cking years of history to look back on.
[48:19.120 --> 48:21.460]  Have we ever been sanctioned by the IRS?
[48:21.760 --> 48:24.980]  Has our 501 C 3 status ever been in jeopardy?
[48:25.640 --> 48:26.620]  I don't think so.
[48:26.800 --> 48:27.860]  I haven't heard about it.
[48:28.020 --> 48:29.020]  I haven't read about it.
[48:29.020 --> 48:30.980]  I haven't seen it in any of the email lists.
[48:31.140 --> 48:36.920]  These are all hypothetical problems that people are bringing up to become obstructionist.
[48:37.280 --> 48:49.020]  Now, let's say the IRS, uh, did get wind of the fact that Emmanuel made some fleeting reference to dump Trump and it's an election year and you're not allowed to do that.
[48:49.220 --> 48:50.340]  What's going to happen?
[48:51.020 --> 48:53.700]  Are they going to just yank our 501 C 3 status?
[48:53.840 --> 48:55.740]  Is the FCC going to pull our license?
[48:55.920 --> 48:57.000]  Well, absolutely not.
[48:57.000 --> 48:59.000]  There's something in this country called due process.
[48:59.620 --> 49:03.360]  You're going to get a letter in the mail that says, hey, we got a report of this.
[49:03.580 --> 49:07.300]  Uh, we just want to let you know what the rules and the regulations are.
[49:07.640 --> 49:08.440]  Here's a letter.
[49:08.680 --> 49:09.600]  It's a slap on the wrist.
[49:09.760 --> 49:11.360]  Nothing is going to happen without due process.
[49:11.520 --> 49:13.500]  Except those rules and regulations don't exist.
[49:13.880 --> 49:14.560]  Well, you know...
[49:14.560 --> 49:15.660]  There's no rule against that.
[49:17.100 --> 49:19.880]  There's, you know, it's how you interpret the rules, right?
[49:19.880 --> 49:22.720]  I mean, you cannot stump for a political candidate.
[49:22.980 --> 49:23.320]  Right.
[49:23.320 --> 49:32.580]  You can't say, you know, everybody should go to Beto O'Rourke's, you know, whatever, drum circle or something and, and, and oppose so-and-so.
[49:32.940 --> 49:38.980]  I mean, frankly, I think you can say that and get away with it, but you would be crossing the line during an election cycle.
[49:38.980 --> 49:46.400]  One thing we have going in our favor, and WBAI has going in its favor, is that in its 60-year history, it has always done this.
[49:46.440 --> 49:48.060]  It's always been a liberal station.
[49:48.340 --> 49:49.920]  It's not exclusively liberal.
[49:50.120 --> 49:51.680]  I'm not exclusively liberal.
[49:53.180 --> 49:56.640]  And there's a lot of political talk.
[49:56.640 --> 49:57.640]  It's a political station.
[49:57.760 --> 50:08.460]  In fact, Pacifica is supposed to be about pacifism and dialogue and talking to prevent another situation like World War II from happening, if I recall correctly.
[50:08.460 --> 50:14.320]  That was the original intention of putting these five stations into the hand of Pacifica.
[50:14.700 --> 50:16.040]  It was to foster dialogue.
[50:16.440 --> 50:29.040]  But one other point before I'll hand it over to Kyle is that if we do change the way that we are doing things, that's going to set a very, very bad precedent for us because we've never gotten in trouble for this before in the past.
[50:29.260 --> 50:35.180]  I don't think that there's any likelihood that we would get in trouble for the kind of political speech that is out there now.
[50:35.180 --> 50:41.440]  But if we start self-censoring, we are acknowledging that, hey, maybe there's a gray line that we shouldn't be crossing.
[50:41.700 --> 50:48.240]  Then if we try to get back to where we were for the 60 years that we've been in existence, then it becomes a problem.
[50:48.240 --> 51:03.520]  And I think that's what they were trying to create was that very problem for us by conjuring up these hypothetical situations that completely ignore the fact that there would be due process before any kind of penalization had occurred.
[51:03.520 --> 51:07.140]  I heard that they consulted legal counsel about this.
[51:07.320 --> 51:08.620]  I haven't seen their opinions.
[51:08.900 --> 51:12.640]  It seems like this was brought up by non-lawyers after the fact.
[51:13.060 --> 51:20.620]  And I don't think it was ever really properly addressed, but it bled into this particular issue.
[51:20.620 --> 51:39.500]  I think I just want to add that you can look at all of these different areas like producers and speech, this IRS claim, and basically claiming that political speech against or for candidates puts or jeopardizes the status of the station.
[51:39.500 --> 51:42.280]  That's a way to discredit producers.
[51:42.680 --> 51:43.500]  You have people.
[51:43.660 --> 51:50.300]  I've heard allegations that the premiums department was accused of copying disks, which is what they're supposed to do to distribute things.
[51:50.540 --> 51:59.320]  And just allegations that in each department, if it's the general manager, oh, there's some financial thing or other things that they can do to discredit.
[51:59.320 --> 52:13.220]  So they acted to discredit each aspect of WBAI's operations, whether it's producers with one thing or operations or management with another thing or people that are doing fulfillment.
[52:13.220 --> 52:37.780]  But all of that was thrown in to the mix of this grab for control so that I think at some point they can look back and try to dredge each aspect of that into a greater framing of WBAI as mismanaged or somehow up to something in every respect.
[52:37.780 --> 52:45.160]  But there really isn't that much of it, so here we go, engineering it, and it got our attention.
[52:45.560 --> 52:46.100]  I'll say that.
[52:47.180 --> 53:03.260]  I would just, on the subject of possibly getting into trouble for criticizing Trump, I would like to be pointed to a case where any journalistic media entity in the past century got in trouble with the FCC or the government for criticizing one candidate and not another.
[53:03.740 --> 53:04.800]  It's what we do.
[53:04.940 --> 53:05.800]  We're freaking journalists.
[53:07.420 --> 53:09.640]  Yeah, and free citizens too.
[53:10.300 --> 53:13.020]  Yeah, I would say we're not experts.
[53:13.520 --> 53:18.020]  And, I mean, we're independent people.
[53:18.140 --> 53:30.240]  And that's part of what's magical about being able to take calls, being able to have guests, being able to share stories and stuff from the news and wherever.
[53:30.240 --> 53:38.420]  I mean, it's not on us to exactly, you know, phrase everything perfectly.
[53:38.420 --> 53:45.060]  We've never, ever, you know, claimed that we were experts or that we were coming from one or the other angle.
[53:45.220 --> 53:49.240]  It's always been from the hacker perspective or the perspective of WBAI.
[53:51.580 --> 53:56.760]  And we're learning and we're open to having the discussion.
[53:56.760 --> 53:58.980]  That's part of what makes it cool.
[53:59.180 --> 54:05.720]  And that's, you know, that is what we're about in whole.
[54:05.720 --> 54:13.320]  Like, that's why we've been able to last and share with people and create the space for it.
[54:13.320 --> 54:19.120]  Speaking of taking calls, we can't take calls, but what we can do, we have an audience here.
[54:19.340 --> 54:24.360]  If anyone wants to come up to the microphone and ask a question, be orderly though, no pushing, shoving.
[54:25.040 --> 54:27.620]  Those of you online who are watching us, alright, calm down.
[54:28.580 --> 54:30.100]  You can ask us a question too.
[54:30.220 --> 54:34.140]  Just put the word question, colon, in front of your question.
[54:34.240 --> 54:36.500]  That way it stands out from all the other comments.
[54:37.520 --> 54:40.000]  And we'll hopefully get to your question too.
[54:40.540 --> 54:47.800]  And we have, okay, we have Ken, I believe, who is a WBAI staff person.
[54:48.380 --> 54:49.220]  Hi guys.
[54:49.420 --> 54:49.720]  How you doing?
[54:49.980 --> 54:51.460]  Glad you're doing this.
[54:52.400 --> 54:53.280]  It's wonderful.
[54:53.720 --> 54:54.400]  Thank you, Pacifica.
[54:54.920 --> 54:57.000]  And I want to... no.
[54:58.380 --> 55:10.660]  And one thing I want to point out is their press release kept telling everybody, and the New York Times bought it, and New York One bought it, that it was a financial decision to take over WBAI.
[55:10.880 --> 55:17.140]  If that was the case, why did they disable the donation site, right?
[55:17.300 --> 55:21.480]  Nobody can donate money to WBAI because Pacifica won't let them.
[55:21.660 --> 55:23.860]  So why is it a financial decision?
[55:24.120 --> 55:27.780]  Why is it they did it during a fund drive that was doing well?
[55:28.320 --> 55:32.060]  I think it was to disable the finances of BAI.
[55:32.180 --> 55:38.360]  So they took a fund drive and substituted our ability to raise the money to keep the station going.
[55:38.400 --> 55:38.660]  Mm-hmm.
[55:38.920 --> 55:42.180]  So they can say, see, BAI is further in the red.
[55:42.300 --> 55:44.380]  I predict this fund drive is going to be a disaster.
[55:44.520 --> 55:44.780]  Yeah.
[55:45.020 --> 55:45.960]  Because we didn't have it.
[55:46.720 --> 55:54.220]  There's also a lot of contention about the numbers that are being thrown around as far as debt and how that's calculated.
[55:54.420 --> 55:55.800]  We also mentioned the...
[55:55.800 --> 55:58.340]  Apparently, they're doubling the debt.
[55:58.440 --> 55:58.800]  Yeah, yeah.
[55:58.900 --> 56:00.040]  There's certain aspects of the debt.
[56:00.200 --> 56:03.620]  They'll put in two different places, add it together, so it's doubled.
[56:03.860 --> 56:05.180]  And that doesn't work.
[56:05.420 --> 56:11.980]  But, Alex, something you said way early in the show about tomorrow's hearing.
[56:12.880 --> 56:16.080]  You talked about what would happen if we won.
[56:16.600 --> 56:18.760]  What would happen if we lost?
[56:19.280 --> 56:19.780]  Good.
[56:19.960 --> 56:20.600]  Good question.
[56:20.600 --> 56:20.680]  Good question.
[56:21.240 --> 56:26.780]  If we lose this, then the temporary restraining order goes away.
[56:26.780 --> 56:28.900]  The injunction goes away.
[56:29.280 --> 56:33.820]  And WBAI does not have to be allowed to go back on the air.
[56:33.980 --> 56:37.300]  That's why it's incredibly important for people to show up tomorrow morning.
[56:37.400 --> 56:39.020]  There's a lot riding on this TRO.
[56:40.360 --> 56:59.840]  It's unclear to me right now from the papers that I have seen whether or not there would continue to be a hearing on the 18th of October to determine more fully on the merits whether or not an injunction should be issued, perhaps a permanent injunction.
[57:00.280 --> 57:16.240]  It seems to me that there should be because it's really quite rushed to make this assessment on the basis of a temporary restraining order about whether or not Pacifica actually has the power to do what they did on Monday.
[57:16.240 --> 57:18.380]  That's a difficult legal question.
[57:18.760 --> 57:24.840]  Now, I'm going to assume that the hearing on the 18th will go forward if we lose tomorrow.
[57:24.840 --> 57:32.620]  And that's when the judge would determine whether or not what Pacifica did was essentially ultra-virez or outside the scope of their authority.
[57:33.080 --> 57:35.360]  And it's very unclear.
[57:36.500 --> 57:44.080]  We go back 20 years ago again to what happened when the Pacifica National Board had corporate interest stacked.
[57:44.080 --> 58:04.300]  Had we not rallied and taken direct action against those activities, what very likely would have happened is that the Pacifica National Board would have voted on the basis of their bylaws to dispose of WBAI, sell the license, take the cash, and use that to fund other operations.
[58:05.860 --> 58:14.300]  What happened on Monday is really quite interesting because you don't even have an executive director of Pacifica.
[58:14.380 --> 58:17.640]  You have an interim executive director, the IED.
[58:18.440 --> 58:26.560]  Now, according to, I think, the well-crafted, verified petition of WBAI's attorney, Arthur Schwartz, nowhere in the...
[58:26.560 --> 58:28.140]  I'm going to quote from paragraph 18.
[58:28.700 --> 58:34.760]  Nowhere in the Pacifica bylaws is the executive director given the power to seize a radio station.
[58:35.080 --> 58:48.060]  The bylaws at Article 9, Section 7 give the executive director power to generally supervise, direct, and control the business of the foundation subject to the control of the board.
[58:48.940 --> 58:50.440]  Now, it's not clear...
[58:50.440 --> 58:51.320]  But the board is split.
[58:51.560 --> 58:52.380]  The board is split.
[58:52.540 --> 58:54.560]  So does the executive director break the tie?
[58:55.140 --> 58:57.280]  Well, I guess he thinks he does, but does he?
[58:57.280 --> 58:58.120]  I don't think so.
[58:58.160 --> 58:58.660]  He's...
[58:58.660 --> 58:59.880]  Unless he's on the board.
[59:00.140 --> 59:01.780]  You know, I don't think he would be able to...
[59:01.780 --> 59:03.820]  From what I heard, the board wasn't even told about this.
[59:03.920 --> 59:05.460]  So that tells you their level of respect for this.
[59:05.460 --> 59:08.340]  But here's the really important point about the board.
[59:08.640 --> 59:18.180]  Because the bylaws are such that perhaps not even the board has the authority to do what was done to WBAI on Monday.
[59:19.100 --> 59:24.200]  These are really tricky, difficult legal issues to untangle overnight.
[59:24.200 --> 59:39.800]  So that's why I think if we lose the TRO, there probably will still be another hearing on October 18th where it's going to be incumbent on WBAI to prove things like, you know, irreparable harm, likelihood of success on the merits.
[59:39.800 --> 59:41.780]  We are the ones seeking an injunction.
[59:42.200 --> 59:52.880]  So we would have the burden of proving all of these things that we need to prove in order to have some kind of permanent injunction while the underlying lawsuit could go forward.
[59:52.880 --> 59:59.740]  And that underlying lawsuit would be about whether what Pacifica did was legal and authorized.
[59:59.740 --> 01:00:04.800]  Does it comply with the not-for-profit corporation laws under the state of New York?
[01:00:04.880 --> 01:00:06.980]  And does it comport with their own bylaws?
[01:00:07.340 --> 01:00:08.520]  What do they mean?
[01:00:08.640 --> 01:00:09.500]  What do they say?
[01:00:09.900 --> 01:00:15.200]  So if we lose tomorrow, it's not the end by any means of the battle.
[01:00:15.200 --> 01:00:19.360]  And this is a really important point, Ken, and you're right, that didn't come through before.
[01:00:20.140 --> 01:00:26.320]  But what it does mean is that WBAI will not be back on the air until at least the 18th.
[01:00:27.360 --> 01:00:35.740]  And again, it's a very high burden for us to establish that we would need a permanent injunction if the TRO would have been tossed out.
[01:00:35.740 --> 01:00:46.540]  Now, I think that if they succeed in selling BAI or a signal swap or whatever, what's happening is they're not fixing the environment.
[01:00:46.640 --> 01:00:48.400]  I'm talking about this as an environmentalist.
[01:00:48.480 --> 01:00:55.360]  If you don't have a decent environment and you bring back an extinct species, that's going to die again because it doesn't have an environment to live.
[01:00:55.640 --> 01:01:05.180]  And with all of the stations losing money, selling the station so that they're not losing money for a little while doesn't fix the environment.
[01:01:05.180 --> 01:01:06.600]  So what's going to happen?
[01:01:06.780 --> 01:01:12.740]  They're going to have to sell another station and then eventually another station until they have one.
[01:01:12.900 --> 01:01:21.180]  And if they still haven't fixed the environment, then Pacifica will be gone forever because all they can think of is selling stations.
[01:01:21.180 --> 01:01:35.220]  And whoever sells the station and is able to pocket any of the money, and they once tried to write the bylaws so that they could personally profit from selling resources or giving resources to Pacifica.
[01:01:35.220 --> 01:01:38.500]  So if they manage to put that in, they want to redo the bylaws.
[01:01:38.820 --> 01:01:40.780]  And there's an 11-11 split.
[01:01:41.220 --> 01:01:42.000]  Don't redo them.
[01:01:42.180 --> 01:01:46.120]  And they want to get rid of one of those 11 people so they can have 12 to 10.
[01:01:47.580 --> 01:01:53.260]  The action of getting rid of BAI may actually cause the 11-11 split to go the other way.
[01:01:53.860 --> 01:01:57.840]  And so they'll have to fire more people to get their majority.
[01:01:58.060 --> 01:01:59.060]  But who knows?
[01:01:59.240 --> 01:02:01.180]  I mean, that's just total conjecture.
[01:02:01.300 --> 01:02:02.180]  You have to look at motive.
[01:02:02.440 --> 01:02:03.980]  Why are they doing this?
[01:02:04.220 --> 01:02:05.140]  What is in it for them?
[01:02:05.200 --> 01:02:10.400]  When you do that, you realize how dirty this is and how, you know...
[01:02:10.400 --> 01:02:12.200]  The good guys don't work this way.
[01:02:12.280 --> 01:02:18.700]  They don't come in the middle of the night and shut down a station and raid its archives and put out propaganda.
[01:02:18.700 --> 01:02:22.080]  When you find yourself doing things like that, take a good look in the mirror.
[01:02:22.420 --> 01:02:23.900]  Ask who you actually are.
[01:02:24.520 --> 01:02:25.660]  You're on the wrong side.
[01:02:25.840 --> 01:02:27.020]  There's also NPR envy.
[01:02:27.780 --> 01:02:30.360]  And where they want to have national programming.
[01:02:30.760 --> 01:02:33.620]  Not all NPR programming is national, for one thing.
[01:02:33.740 --> 01:02:34.020]  Of course.
[01:02:34.360 --> 01:02:35.420]  Radio is local.
[01:02:35.880 --> 01:02:37.880]  I love to point out ESPN radio.
[01:02:39.220 --> 01:02:41.540]  They have a national show.
[01:02:41.640 --> 01:02:42.800]  Not all their shows are national.
[01:02:43.200 --> 01:02:47.020]  There's a lot of local programming on ESPN radio.
[01:02:47.740 --> 01:02:52.300]  But even in syndicated shows, they break into it for local news.
[01:02:52.300 --> 01:02:52.540]  Right.
[01:02:52.620 --> 01:02:55.220]  Because they know radio is local.
[01:02:55.440 --> 01:02:56.340]  It has to be local.
[01:02:56.340 --> 01:02:57.160]  It doesn't work.
[01:02:57.360 --> 01:02:58.840]  They don't do that for ESPN TV.
[01:02:59.240 --> 01:03:01.220]  They don't break into it with local stuff.
[01:03:01.580 --> 01:03:03.340]  Because radio is local.
[01:03:03.600 --> 01:03:06.780]  The music radio has found this out.
[01:03:06.940 --> 01:03:09.260]  They have everybody listening to the same music.
[01:03:09.260 --> 01:03:14.120]  As if the people in Texas and people in New York and people in Seattle have the same musical taste.
[01:03:14.320 --> 01:03:15.100]  Well, we don't.
[01:03:15.100 --> 01:03:15.300]  No.
[01:03:15.420 --> 01:03:19.820]  Every touring band knows you change your set list in different parts of the country.
[01:03:20.100 --> 01:03:24.640]  And music radio destroyed music radio by making it homogenous.
[01:03:24.940 --> 01:03:30.400]  And this NPR envy, where all they see is the syndicated stuff, is going to kill radio.
[01:03:30.600 --> 01:03:30.780]  Period.
[01:03:31.060 --> 01:03:31.240]  Yeah.
[01:03:31.240 --> 01:03:35.260]  If something is happening in the streets of Brooklyn, we want to be able to report on that.
[01:03:35.460 --> 01:03:35.880]  Yeah.
[01:03:36.000 --> 01:03:41.500]  If we have this piped-in feed from California, they won't even know where Brooklyn is.
[01:03:42.000 --> 01:03:42.560]  You know?
[01:03:42.760 --> 01:03:48.340]  It's going to sound just like any commercial station without the commercials, but just as bland, just as disembodied.
[01:03:49.240 --> 01:03:51.220]  And that is never what we've been about.
[01:03:51.220 --> 01:03:52.820]  They refer to California streets.
[01:03:53.160 --> 01:03:54.720]  Something happened in some street in California.
[01:03:54.900 --> 01:03:56.460]  I don't know what they're talking about.
[01:03:56.720 --> 01:03:57.640]  I don't care.
[01:03:57.820 --> 01:03:58.880]  And I tune away.
[01:03:59.260 --> 01:03:59.560]  Yeah, who cares?
[01:03:59.560 --> 01:04:00.520]  And that's the magic of this place.
[01:04:00.740 --> 01:04:02.140]  It's not just the local news.
[01:04:02.140 --> 01:04:03.140]  It's the local art.
[01:04:03.140 --> 01:04:08.280]  It's just what's happening in this area of ours that needs talking about.
[01:04:08.920 --> 01:04:09.160]  You know?
[01:04:09.320 --> 01:04:16.760]  This station has done so much to bring together local people with interests in their neighborhoods to come talk about what's going on where they are.
[01:04:17.140 --> 01:04:24.480]  And you cannot do that with a satellite feed and robot voices playing digital playlists of the top 40 crap.
[01:04:25.900 --> 01:04:29.320]  This station exists because of this community.
[01:04:29.320 --> 01:04:31.960]  It's of, by, and for this community.
[01:04:32.020 --> 01:04:35.700]  And the fact that this community has been locked out, it's obscene.
[01:04:35.780 --> 01:04:41.520]  And we've seen this so many times where we're pretty much told that's it for BAI.
[01:04:42.700 --> 01:04:47.820]  Sandy hit and our Wall Street studios were severely affected.
[01:04:48.060 --> 01:04:49.340]  And we had to move.
[01:04:49.460 --> 01:04:51.280]  And that was the end then.
[01:04:51.280 --> 01:04:52.700]  And we had no place to go.
[01:04:53.180 --> 01:04:56.360]  We found a place to broadcast from for a couple of years.
[01:04:56.360 --> 01:04:57.360]  And we found this place.
[01:04:57.360 --> 01:05:03.240]  And I've seen it just keep growing and growing with more people coming in and getting involved, more community activism.
[01:05:04.440 --> 01:05:06.360]  They slashed the budget a few years ago.
[01:05:06.540 --> 01:05:07.580]  They cut the news department.
[01:05:07.800 --> 01:05:08.940]  The news department came back.
[01:05:08.940 --> 01:05:13.260]  Even though they're not getting paid, they still are so passionate that they will do it anyway.
[01:05:13.300 --> 01:05:15.720]  And that's how I think we all feel about community radio.
[01:05:16.100 --> 01:05:20.340]  You know, it doesn't matter if you make it as unpleasant as possible.
[01:05:20.340 --> 01:05:21.320]  We're still going to do it.
[01:05:21.380 --> 01:05:25.960]  We're still going to come in and try and do the best job we can because that is our passion.
[01:05:26.380 --> 01:05:26.780]  Yeah.
[01:05:26.980 --> 01:05:29.340]  And there's a point coming up in the chat here.
[01:05:29.420 --> 01:05:40.380]  And also, it was talked about at the meeting we were at last night, Ken, that there is talk about this being the work of a rebel faction within Pacifica and not the official statement of the Pacifica organization.
[01:05:40.900 --> 01:05:43.000]  We have press releases on Pacifica Letterhead.
[01:05:43.000 --> 01:05:47.920]  You know, we have websites that tout this being a Pacifica thing.
[01:05:48.220 --> 01:05:53.080]  And if this is some kind of rebel faction within Pacifica, Pacifica, come get your boys.
[01:05:53.620 --> 01:05:56.760]  You know, reel them in because they're f*cking up our shit here.
[01:05:58.360 --> 01:06:02.460]  By the way, we have a lot of important allies on our side.
[01:06:02.460 --> 01:06:07.320]  I'm looking at a tweet from the New York State Attorney General, all right, Letitia James.
[01:06:07.440 --> 01:06:12.720]  The closing of WBAI is a huge loss for New York City and local news coverage we all depend on.
[01:06:12.880 --> 01:06:15.880]  This is deeply disappointing and I hope this station is relaunched.
[01:06:15.980 --> 01:06:18.900]  We had tweets from the mayor, the mayor of New York City.
[01:06:18.900 --> 01:06:27.940]  I mean, we have all kinds of reporters and people that are basically saying stuff about WBAI.
[01:06:28.140 --> 01:06:32.040]  Corey Johnson tweeted about it too, the Speaker of the City Council.
[01:06:32.320 --> 01:06:35.180]  I mean, it's all over the place on Monday.
[01:06:35.320 --> 01:06:35.580]  Uh-huh.
[01:06:36.100 --> 01:06:36.700]  People care.
[01:06:36.800 --> 01:06:38.100]  A lot of people have come from this place.
[01:06:38.160 --> 01:06:42.400]  A lot of people who have made it into higher positions have a history here.
[01:06:42.700 --> 01:06:45.660]  And they understand the importance, the uniqueness of WBAI.
[01:06:45.660 --> 01:06:51.280]  So, it's up to us as people, but never forget that we have so many friends.
[01:06:51.580 --> 01:06:58.920]  I mean, I've gotten emails from all over the world from people that know BAI, know the importance of it, and are upset that this is happening.
[01:06:59.320 --> 01:07:05.300]  So, it might seem like we're overwhelmed, but believe me, the individual voice does count.
[01:07:05.300 --> 01:07:06.000]  It does matter.
[01:07:06.120 --> 01:07:07.520]  And it scares the shit out of them.
[01:07:07.900 --> 01:07:08.240]  Yeah.
[01:07:08.400 --> 01:07:09.740]  And there will be process.
[01:07:09.760 --> 01:07:16.840]  This is something that is going to take some time to unwind, especially if we lose that TRO tomorrow.
[01:07:17.320 --> 01:07:20.060]  And so, you know, to sort of recap a little bit here.
[01:07:20.780 --> 01:07:40.420]  Tomorrow, there is going to be a argument in the first appellate division to vacate the injunction, to vacate the restraining order that was issued to Pacifica that prevents them from taking over the station, as they did on Monday.
[01:07:40.660 --> 01:07:46.420]  And it would require them to let WBAI reclaim the station.
[01:07:46.420 --> 01:07:59.000]  It would require Pacifica to let us back in, unlock the doors, unfreeze the bank accounts, give us back the domain name, give us back the transmitter, and let the regularly scheduled programming recommence.
[01:07:59.920 --> 01:08:02.040]  So all of that is at stake tomorrow.
[01:08:02.320 --> 01:08:06.900]  And it's going to be, I think, a long night for the lawyers on both sides.
[01:08:07.200 --> 01:08:11.580]  But if anybody can show up at 9.15 a.m.
[01:08:11.640 --> 01:08:23.760]  to the first appellate division, right on 25th and Madison Avenue, it's 27 Madison Avenue, a show of support for WBAI, I think, could really be extraordinarily helpful.
[01:08:23.760 --> 01:08:26.040]  I know it's a difficult time, though.
[01:08:26.220 --> 01:08:27.420]  I mean, they don't make it convenient.
[01:08:27.660 --> 01:08:30.040]  It's not, you know, outside of working hours.
[01:08:30.160 --> 01:08:32.440]  It's right smack at the beginning of the work day.
[01:08:32.540 --> 01:08:33.680]  So it's going to be tough.
[01:08:34.700 --> 01:08:40.280]  But this station has always lived off the sacrifices of its volunteers and its listeners.
[01:08:40.480 --> 01:08:42.080]  That's 25th Street and Madison Avenue?
[01:08:42.220 --> 01:08:43.420]  25th Street and Madison Avenue.
[01:08:43.480 --> 01:08:45.360]  And the address is 27 Madison Avenue.
[01:08:45.360 --> 01:08:45.940]  That is correct.
[01:08:46.180 --> 01:08:46.640]  Okay, good.
[01:08:46.720 --> 01:08:51.080]  We have a question from the internet, from Joss, I believe is how you say it, Joss.
[01:08:52.040 --> 01:08:56.500]  Worst case scenario, what happens, worst case scenario happens, what are your contingency plans?
[01:08:56.940 --> 01:09:01.400]  I guess the answer is we're just going to, like Alex has been saying, we're going to keep fighting.
[01:09:01.560 --> 01:09:03.960]  It's not going to be over if we lose tomorrow.
[01:09:04.520 --> 01:09:06.160]  I sure hope we don't lose tomorrow.
[01:09:06.160 --> 01:09:08.340]  But if we do, it's not the end of the world.
[01:09:08.480 --> 01:09:10.500]  We are still going to, like I said, we're stubborn.
[01:09:11.080 --> 01:09:12.320]  And we're going to keep fighting.
[01:09:12.540 --> 01:09:12.860]  Yes.
[01:09:12.980 --> 01:09:15.420]  And we have a lot of people on our side, so...
[01:09:15.420 --> 01:09:20.620]  Yeah, and I think that's the important point here is to focus on continuing the fight.
[01:09:20.620 --> 01:09:22.080]  Even if we lose.
[01:09:22.240 --> 01:09:23.680]  An injunction is very helpful.
[01:09:23.860 --> 01:09:32.320]  But the purpose of an injunction or a TRO, temporary restraining order, is to maintain the status quo while the underlying battle rages on, right?
[01:09:32.460 --> 01:09:55.900]  So if some party would have irreparable injury because they lost control of something, let's say like a radio station, while there was an underlying dispute being litigated through the courts over the next two years, that's a good reason to preserve the status quo here and let BAI continue broadcasting as it did.
[01:09:56.160 --> 01:10:10.060]  Now, I think there are very serious questions about what Pacifica did, whether they're allowed to do what they did, quite frankly, based on the bylaws, based on the fact we have an interim executive director.
[01:10:10.300 --> 01:10:12.300]  There's all kinds of suspicion here.
[01:10:13.100 --> 01:10:16.800]  And this bit about the rebel factions, you know, that just adds to it, right?
[01:10:16.920 --> 01:10:19.460]  This gives us a likelihood of success on the merits.
[01:10:19.620 --> 01:10:22.180]  We can definitely prove irreparable harm.
[01:10:22.300 --> 01:10:29.260]  There aren't really lesser means to letting the station continue other than to be its own radio station.
[01:10:29.260 --> 01:10:37.660]  If it continues to broadcast as a manual, I think, aptly phrased it, elevator music for radicals, it's not WBAI anymore.
[01:10:38.040 --> 01:10:42.080]  So I think we have a very good chance of succeeding tomorrow.
[01:10:42.080 --> 01:10:51.600]  And that chance will be doubled, even tripled by supporters showing up at 27 Madison Avenue at 915 in the morning to the first appellate division.
[01:10:52.020 --> 01:10:52.540]  Yeah.
[01:10:52.640 --> 01:11:02.780]  And this is further damage being done right now because with the restraining order, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, Alex, but by rights, we are fully entitled to be upstairs right now doing our regular show.
[01:11:03.100 --> 01:11:07.360]  The keys were, you know, metaphorically and physically were turned back over to us.
[01:11:07.500 --> 01:11:10.060]  It's because of the vandalism that happened that we aren't.
[01:11:10.700 --> 01:11:13.680]  And, yeah, so this is ongoing damage.
[01:11:13.840 --> 01:11:15.280]  It's not just one switch that's been thrown.
[01:11:15.380 --> 01:11:16.980]  Yeah, that's absolutely correct.
[01:11:16.980 --> 01:11:17.000]  Correct.
[01:11:17.220 --> 01:11:29.160]  And what I find very concerning and also interesting is that whoever took control of this station, they took control of it.
[01:11:29.320 --> 01:11:36.800]  And as we saw from Reggie's video yesterday, they did a lot of things in a very short period of time.
[01:11:36.800 --> 01:11:49.600]  And it seemed all as if it may have been engineered or designed in advance to ensure that even if something like a TRO had come down, WBAI would still not be able to be on the air.
[01:11:50.340 --> 01:11:52.640]  And that plan succeeded because we're here.
[01:11:52.740 --> 01:11:53.480]  We're not up there.
[01:11:53.660 --> 01:12:02.160]  I mean, we're happy to see all your faces and be on YouTube, but we'd much rather be upstairs and that's where we intend to get back to.
[01:12:02.160 --> 01:12:03.840]  That does say a lot.
[01:12:04.000 --> 01:12:04.800]  I mean, think about that.
[01:12:05.020 --> 01:12:11.620]  They come in and they exercise what they believe is the right thing to do as far as shutting down WBAI.
[01:12:12.120 --> 01:12:14.960]  And then they're told, no, you can't do that.
[01:12:15.300 --> 01:12:20.640]  But they've made it so that they've kind of booby-trapped the place where you can't use it anymore.
[01:12:21.220 --> 01:12:23.820]  They've taken the things out that we need to operate.
[01:12:24.540 --> 01:12:26.040]  Again, look in the mirror.
[01:12:26.160 --> 01:12:26.720]  Who are you?
[01:12:26.820 --> 01:12:27.740]  Who is doing this?
[01:12:27.880 --> 01:12:30.120]  This is not the way good guys operate.
[01:12:30.120 --> 01:12:33.540]  So that alone tells you something about motivations.
[01:12:33.800 --> 01:12:34.900]  We have another question from the floor.
[01:12:34.980 --> 01:12:36.980]  Hey, Anthony, this is the guy who trained me.
[01:12:37.120 --> 01:12:38.120]  Put me on the radio.
[01:12:38.120 --> 01:12:38.940]  It's your fault.
[01:12:39.140 --> 01:12:40.180]  He always says that.
[01:12:40.800 --> 01:12:42.480]  Look, we all train ourselves.
[01:12:42.780 --> 01:12:47.440]  Listen, off the hook, off the hook, off the hook.
[01:12:47.680 --> 01:12:51.380]  So glad and privileged to be here talking to off the hook.
[01:12:51.860 --> 01:12:52.900]  A couple of things.
[01:12:53.120 --> 01:12:54.840]  One, I should...
[01:12:54.840 --> 01:12:56.540]  We always say they.
[01:12:57.260 --> 01:12:58.940]  I think we need to name some names.
[01:12:59.100 --> 01:13:04.720]  The nice thing about the internet is that people can do some research around these names.
[01:13:04.980 --> 01:13:06.120]  The reason I don't mention names...
[01:13:06.120 --> 01:13:06.760]  You're welcome to.
[01:13:06.820 --> 01:13:10.240]  But the reason I don't mention names, I don't want this to become about personalities.
[01:13:10.480 --> 01:13:11.980]  Well, I don't like this person.
[01:13:12.980 --> 01:13:13.880]  Look at motivations.
[01:13:14.000 --> 01:13:14.500]  Look at actions.
[01:13:14.620 --> 01:13:15.880]  If you want to name names, that's fine.
[01:13:16.060 --> 01:13:18.360]  But I'm keeping it to what people are doing.
[01:13:18.900 --> 01:13:22.520]  The names I'm talking about is this faction from California.
[01:13:22.720 --> 01:13:24.120]  These are not New Yorkers.
[01:13:24.400 --> 01:13:25.560]  You know, and they don't understand.
[01:13:25.680 --> 01:13:27.860]  Hey, New Yorkers, you know, we're not going to take this.
[01:13:28.400 --> 01:13:28.760]  Somebody from...
[01:13:28.760 --> 01:13:29.780]  In fact, this is the difference.
[01:13:29.980 --> 01:13:30.860]  I've been through...
[01:13:30.860 --> 01:13:32.020]  I've been through four...
[01:13:32.020 --> 01:13:32.880]  This is the fourth coup.
[01:13:33.760 --> 01:13:34.540]  If you want to call it.
[01:13:34.680 --> 01:13:38.840]  The difference between this coup and all the other coups, all the other coups are sort of internal coups.
[01:13:39.040 --> 01:13:42.100]  This is some faction from the outside trying to create something else.
[01:13:42.100 --> 01:13:44.460]  I call it, I don't know, Air America 2.
[01:13:44.780 --> 01:13:45.140]  whoever.
[01:13:45.560 --> 01:13:45.840]  You know what I'm saying?
[01:13:46.580 --> 01:13:48.080]  There's a whole other agenda here.
[01:13:48.460 --> 01:13:55.180]  And from my understanding, the big cat in the coup started only like two and a half months ago, which means they had this in place for a long time.
[01:13:55.420 --> 01:13:58.660]  I want to make people aware of one...
[01:13:58.660 --> 01:14:02.760]  One of the things I want to make people aware of is that this is community radio.
[01:14:02.900 --> 01:14:03.960]  This is not public radio.
[01:14:04.200 --> 01:14:06.020]  This is not a commercial radio.
[01:14:06.460 --> 01:14:08.900]  Now, I have this conspiracy theory, right?
[01:14:08.960 --> 01:14:10.360]  It has to do with Lyndon Johnson.
[01:14:10.740 --> 01:14:15.020]  I think that what happened, really, was when Pacifica came along, there was no...
[01:14:15.020 --> 01:14:16.220]  Remember, there was no public radio.
[01:14:17.000 --> 01:14:25.520]  And what they saw that, hey, if we only have commercial radio and this listener-sponsored radio, then we need to put something in the thing where we control it, the government controls it.
[01:14:25.680 --> 01:14:27.180]  It's just a conspiracy theory.
[01:14:27.280 --> 01:14:28.020]  Just hold on.
[01:14:28.120 --> 01:14:29.100]  You know, I don't have to be correct.
[01:14:29.380 --> 01:14:35.300]  And they put that wedge in there to take the power away from the citizenry, if you want to put it that way.
[01:14:35.380 --> 01:14:36.540]  But that's just a conspiracy thing.
[01:14:37.240 --> 01:14:42.380]  I wanted to just briefly just talk about one more thing.
[01:14:43.080 --> 01:14:44.820]  Yes, go to the courthouse, that's for sure.
[01:14:45.840 --> 01:14:49.120]  Much thanks to all the people that's been working very hard.
[01:14:50.280 --> 01:14:52.740]  And I think we need accurate information.
[01:14:52.980 --> 01:14:56.800]  That's why I'm saying, when I say research, okay, I don't say name names.
[01:14:56.940 --> 01:14:57.960]  We need to research.
[01:14:58.440 --> 01:14:59.080]  That's what I'm saying.
[01:14:59.220 --> 01:15:00.880]  And we don't have to do it ourselves.
[01:15:01.300 --> 01:15:03.480]  Our people on the internet, they all know.
[01:15:03.600 --> 01:15:04.280]  They know what to do.
[01:15:04.400 --> 01:15:06.460]  And they should make it known.
[01:15:07.600 --> 01:15:09.660]  Much thanks to Melissa and Brooklyn Commons.
[01:15:10.000 --> 01:15:11.200]  Yes, please support this place.
[01:15:11.640 --> 01:15:12.260]  Come on now.
[01:15:12.520 --> 01:15:12.680]  Seriously.
[01:15:13.240 --> 01:15:13.740]  No, no, really.
[01:15:13.900 --> 01:15:15.280]  I want to be serious about this.
[01:15:15.320 --> 01:15:17.980]  We're going to do an audio drama here in November.
[01:15:19.340 --> 01:15:19.900]  I'm sorry.
[01:15:19.960 --> 01:15:20.720]  Let me say one thing.
[01:15:20.920 --> 01:15:21.420]  Hold on.
[01:15:21.460 --> 01:15:22.100]  I have to back up.
[01:15:22.780 --> 01:15:23.620]  I'm backing up.
[01:15:24.460 --> 01:15:31.320]  I learned about this because I just came from the adults, from the ADOS conference in Louisville, Kentucky.
[01:15:31.620 --> 01:15:33.980]  And I was taking a train ride back.
[01:15:34.120 --> 01:15:39.520]  And when I came through Chicago, when I was coming down through New York, you know, my phone sort of blew up.
[01:15:39.600 --> 01:15:41.100]  I'm going like, what's going on?
[01:15:41.440 --> 01:15:41.880]  What?
[01:15:42.620 --> 01:15:43.060]  BAI?
[01:15:43.280 --> 01:15:43.540]  Who?
[01:15:43.780 --> 01:15:43.940]  Huh?
[01:15:44.480 --> 01:15:45.320]  I'm shocked.
[01:15:45.500 --> 01:15:50.220]  Because we're putting together audio drama, live audio drama, that's what I do, in November.
[01:15:50.500 --> 01:15:52.920]  And so I'm going like, whoo, what's going on?
[01:15:53.140 --> 01:15:58.220]  Now, here I find myself involved in an actual, real life, you know, audio drama.
[01:15:58.220 --> 01:16:00.680]  This is nothing but radio drama for real.
[01:16:00.960 --> 01:16:02.700]  So just everybody enjoy where you can.
[01:16:02.920 --> 01:16:04.560]  When I say enjoy, I really do mean enjoy.
[01:16:04.720 --> 01:16:09.600]  Because this stuff, these folks, let me put it this way.
[01:16:10.100 --> 01:16:12.120]  I mentioned this at some other place.
[01:16:12.940 --> 01:16:24.140]  The thing, the difference between community radio for real, or us for real, and public radio, or whatever radio, is we are what I call, you know, our seeds come from here.
[01:16:24.140 --> 01:16:26.020]  We are what we call autochthonous.
[01:16:26.560 --> 01:16:29.840]  That's a geological term, which means that you can trace it to this particular spot.
[01:16:30.500 --> 01:16:31.940]  We are autochthonous to this.
[01:16:32.100 --> 01:16:39.780]  So if you come through WBA, or you come through real community radio, even if you manned it someplace else, but if you started there, then you have a different perspective.
[01:16:39.780 --> 01:16:50.460]  Now, one of our coups before they tried was they had, basically, corporate people, when they come into a situation, they try to find corporate solutions to things.
[01:16:50.760 --> 01:16:52.000]  Well, we're not corporate.
[01:16:52.180 --> 01:16:53.920]  So we can't use corporate solutions.
[01:16:53.960 --> 01:16:58.080]  We have to use autochthonous or, you know, people from the ground solutions.
[01:16:58.360 --> 01:17:01.260]  You know, we have to, you know, we have to gaffer tape and whatever it is.
[01:17:01.260 --> 01:17:08.780]  And that's the big problem because these folks don't know what they're doing because they're trying to corporate something that can never be corporated.
[01:17:09.120 --> 01:17:10.900]  Corporated, however you say that.
[01:17:11.320 --> 01:17:11.560]  You know?
[01:17:11.720 --> 01:17:13.520]  And I think that that's...
[01:17:13.520 --> 01:17:15.520]  I won't say our ace and the hole, but that's...
[01:17:15.520 --> 01:17:17.940]  Our ace and the hole is that we're right.
[01:17:18.500 --> 01:17:20.060]  And truth will out.
[01:17:20.360 --> 01:17:22.600]  So I just want to let people know...
[01:17:22.600 --> 01:17:22.980]  Hey, look.
[01:17:23.300 --> 01:17:23.920]  Just don't...
[01:17:23.920 --> 01:17:24.880]  Stop stressing.
[01:17:25.460 --> 01:17:25.900]  Just...
[01:17:25.900 --> 01:17:27.060]  It's an audio drama.
[01:17:27.300 --> 01:17:28.360]  Don't worry about it.
[01:17:28.420 --> 01:17:28.740]  You know what I mean?
[01:17:28.740 --> 01:17:30.980]  The people in place are going to take care of what they're going to take care of.
[01:17:31.260 --> 01:17:32.380]  Everybody's doing what they're supposed to do.
[01:17:32.680 --> 01:17:35.280]  You know, Off the Hook is broadcasting live, blah, blah, blah.
[01:17:35.460 --> 01:17:36.640]  We're going to do all the rest of that stuff.
[01:17:37.820 --> 01:17:38.460]  Don't worry.
[01:17:39.340 --> 01:17:39.980]  Be happy.
[01:17:41.300 --> 01:17:41.800]  Thank you.
[01:17:42.060 --> 01:17:42.580]  Thanks for that.
[01:17:42.880 --> 01:17:44.900]  We really appreciate that sentiment.
[01:17:45.280 --> 01:17:48.740]  And I mean, what the f*ck did they expect us to do?
[01:17:48.980 --> 01:17:53.280]  Oh, we're just going to walk away because, you know, Off the Hook is just going to go over here.
[01:17:53.280 --> 01:18:00.780]  Like, that is a gross underestimation of how much a part of the station this program has been.
[01:18:00.960 --> 01:18:02.300]  Another question from the net.
[01:18:02.500 --> 01:18:03.620]  How am I supposed to say these names?
[01:18:03.720 --> 01:18:05.220]  EG-6-SIR-2?
[01:18:05.500 --> 01:18:06.560]  I mean, I'm sorry.
[01:18:06.660 --> 01:18:08.600]  I'm not criticizing the name.
[01:18:08.660 --> 01:18:10.440]  I'm just saying, how am I supposed to pronounce that?
[01:18:10.580 --> 01:18:11.680]  People put numbers and names.
[01:18:12.220 --> 01:18:13.500]  EG-6-SIR-2?
[01:18:14.640 --> 01:18:16.320]  EG-6-SIR-2?
[01:18:16.320 --> 01:18:18.040]  Okay, now everybody knows who you are.
[01:18:18.940 --> 01:18:25.620]  What this entity asked was, how can Pacifica take the WBAI site if it's a WBAI donation site?
[01:18:26.020 --> 01:18:28.020]  It's a logical question.
[01:18:28.020 --> 01:18:54.000]  From what I've heard, allegedly the payment processing software and service providers, a lot of those accounts were compromised, basically because they were wielding the perceived power and authority that Pacifica has under, I guess, what I would say false pretense.
[01:18:54.000 --> 01:19:01.760]  And what we've talked about here is being not really allowed and not approved by anybody locally or by the board here.
[01:19:03.580 --> 01:19:09.740]  So, ostensibly, yeah, they were in violation in that sense.
[01:19:09.740 --> 01:19:16.460]  And, yeah, no one really invited this at all.
[01:19:16.820 --> 01:19:28.520]  Alex, would it be in violation of anything if we were to help people get back into these accounts that a court order has said they are allowed to have and Pacifica is holding on to?
[01:19:30.120 --> 01:19:38.900]  If I understand you correctly, you're asking if you can hack into the WBAI email address and take control over...
[01:19:38.900 --> 01:19:39.440]  Theoretically, yeah.
[01:19:39.660 --> 01:19:40.900]  ...over the domain names.
[01:19:41.180 --> 01:19:46.680]  Since the court said that WBAI is supposed to have access and Pacifica has not given it.
[01:19:46.720 --> 01:19:53.540]  It would all have to do with, you know, it's interesting because, technically, you can break the locks to get back in.
[01:19:56.020 --> 01:19:58.400]  I wouldn't advise any of my clients...
[01:19:58.400 --> 01:19:59.760]  We have lock pickers in the crowd.
[01:19:59.800 --> 01:20:01.060]  Yeah, we have lock pickers.
[01:20:01.060 --> 01:20:01.800]  Locks and lots of lock pickers.
[01:20:01.800 --> 01:20:03.780]  Just happens if you're lock picks in the audience.
[01:20:04.200 --> 01:20:04.740]  Yeah, I...
[01:20:05.680 --> 01:20:06.120]  Locksmiths.
[01:20:06.120 --> 01:20:06.600]  Okay.
[01:20:06.600 --> 01:20:10.100]  I wouldn't circumvent any security measures to do that.
[01:20:10.240 --> 01:20:10.440]  Okay.
[01:20:10.440 --> 01:20:14.660]  You would be inviting some additional problems into the mix here.
[01:20:15.640 --> 01:20:23.160]  It's quite an interesting conundrum, but I think you may find yourself on the wrong end of a criminal indictment.
[01:20:23.680 --> 01:20:24.820]  I'm familiar with that.
[01:20:24.840 --> 01:20:26.220]  Yet again, Emmanuel.
[01:20:26.560 --> 01:20:26.840]  Yes.
[01:20:27.100 --> 01:20:30.880]  But just imagine staff members who are being told they have to do this, they have to do that.
[01:20:31.120 --> 01:20:32.500]  There's all this stuff coming down.
[01:20:32.640 --> 01:20:34.120]  You're being laid off at the same time.
[01:20:34.120 --> 01:20:40.520]  So that's the kind of coercion that was going on when they kind of raided and hijacked the station.
[01:20:40.520 --> 01:20:43.240]  And so obviously that basically crippled it.
[01:20:43.300 --> 01:20:47.260]  And I think also the site was forwarded to this now placeholder site.
[01:20:47.260 --> 01:20:50.160]  That also basically takes the donation system offline.
[01:20:50.420 --> 01:20:51.360]  And a couple of other things.
[01:20:51.460 --> 01:20:55.840]  There are some things and some things that were not compromised in that sense.
[01:20:56.080 --> 01:20:56.520]  But...
[01:20:56.520 --> 01:21:01.220]  And a lot of these other things that I've talked about, they are being reclaimed.
[01:21:01.360 --> 01:21:04.460]  And that is in progress and ongoing in compliance, I guess.
[01:21:04.640 --> 01:21:07.300]  Well, absolutely with the TRO as it stands now.
[01:21:07.560 --> 01:21:07.920]  That's right.
[01:21:08.060 --> 01:21:11.260]  Unless it's vacated tomorrow, then there is no need for compliance.
[01:21:11.260 --> 01:21:15.380]  So as soon as we can do donations again, that will be back online and that is ongoing.
[01:21:15.580 --> 01:21:16.580]  Another question from the floor.
[01:21:16.840 --> 01:21:17.020]  All right.
[01:21:17.120 --> 01:21:18.160]  So this is a few questions.
[01:21:18.440 --> 01:21:19.020]  A lot of statements.
[01:21:19.400 --> 01:21:21.080]  It's one, thank you for being here.
[01:21:24.100 --> 01:21:29.660]  One of NYC 2600 alumni, thank you for everything you've done over the years.
[01:21:29.660 --> 01:21:42.040]  And if this happens to be goodbye, and I really hope it's not, then from behalf of myself and my roommates, it just happened to be DC 201 right now.
[01:21:42.220 --> 01:21:43.260]  We say thank you.
[01:21:44.360 --> 01:22:02.120]  The one statement I have to make about politics is that if we have Fox News and CNN and MSNBC who all share political opinions on politics, then all you guys are very much, should be welcome to your opinions.
[01:22:02.780 --> 01:22:19.080]  And I cannot imagine the legal precedents where somehow, somehow, whatever given president, especially Trump, who is very divisive, should be exempt from any of this.
[01:22:19.560 --> 01:22:30.260]  Well, part of the logic is that because we're registered as a charity, a 501C3, that we're not allowed to lobby or campaign.
[01:22:30.400 --> 01:22:31.280]  But that's not what this is about.
[01:22:31.400 --> 01:22:32.120]  It's a false narrative.
[01:22:32.780 --> 01:22:40.900]  People are expressing opinions on radio waves, as they have done since Pacifica went on the air in 1949, since this radio station went on the air in 1960.
[01:22:40.900 --> 01:22:53.380]  And to confuse the two is really dishonest because you get people who are not lawyers who might believe what you say and will stifle their freedom of speech as a result of that.
[01:22:53.440 --> 01:23:02.360]  And we're seeing it being used as a tool to get people to comply with other orders and to kind of water down what is being put out over the airways.
[01:23:02.480 --> 01:23:05.620]  It's really, really dishonest and shady to do this.
[01:23:05.620 --> 01:23:11.340]  And there's a quote from one of my heroes who's recently been, I guess, a little shamed a little bit, but the quote still holds.
[01:23:12.280 --> 01:23:19.100]  Richard Stallman once says his programmers like to think they can be non-political, but politics is a way of interfering with programming.
[01:23:20.420 --> 01:23:22.700]  And you can't be non-political.
[01:23:22.760 --> 01:23:24.660]  Everything you do is, in fact, political.
[01:23:25.200 --> 01:23:25.540]  Of course.
[01:23:25.620 --> 01:23:27.980]  The thing is, well, everything you do with the computer is, in fact, political.
[01:23:29.420 --> 01:23:37.340]  And the problem is, it's like from everything I've seen, because I've literally been reading Slashdot literally since 1998.
[01:23:38.500 --> 01:23:49.520]  Like, I remember, like, I have a long rant of what I see as the Silver Age and the Golden Age of the Internet, the Golden Age literally being Eternal September to Google going mainstream, like the 90s.
[01:23:51.800 --> 01:23:55.840]  And what really makes what the Silver Age of the Golden Age is is politics.
[01:23:57.060 --> 01:24:00.600]  You know, it's, I remember, like, the Clipper chip, the DMCA.
[01:24:02.560 --> 01:24:13.060]  It's, you know, what originally started as technical blogs all of a sudden gets political, because the history is just politics interfering in tech.
[01:24:13.780 --> 01:24:14.300]  Yeah.
[01:24:14.420 --> 01:24:15.580]  And you think about the Clipper chip.
[01:24:15.780 --> 01:24:19.380]  I mean, back then, we were just arguing about math.
[01:24:19.520 --> 01:24:20.140]  Yeah.
[01:24:20.500 --> 01:24:20.600]  You know what I mean?
[01:24:20.600 --> 01:24:21.860]  I mean, it's a lot different now.
[01:24:22.080 --> 01:24:22.400]  It was.
[01:24:23.140 --> 01:24:24.980]  It was different, but it's not.
[01:24:25.380 --> 01:24:25.540]  Yeah.
[01:24:25.720 --> 01:24:29.700]  I mean, it's the thing, the one thing, it's like, when you, people think today is bad.
[01:24:30.060 --> 01:24:32.500]  I mean, the 90s, like, people went to jail.
[01:24:32.900 --> 01:24:36.080]  In the 80s, people went to jail with the CFFA and people went to jail.
[01:24:36.400 --> 01:24:43.200]  I mean, you know, Phil Zimmerman was starting with arrest and jail time for, like, little munitions.
[01:24:43.200 --> 01:24:43.700]  Yeah.
[01:24:44.120 --> 01:24:44.240]  Yeah.
[01:24:44.740 --> 01:24:56.880]  So, I mean, like, you know, it's like, it's, especially the message I have to say with, like, some of the more conservative actors is, like, you're next to the chopping block, most of you.
[01:24:57.220 --> 01:24:59.440]  I mean, you know, let's be honest here.
[01:24:59.440 --> 01:25:02.980]  I mean, like, you like to think you're above this, but you're not.
[01:25:03.260 --> 01:25:03.400]  Yeah.
[01:25:03.660 --> 01:25:12.840]  And look, I think your instincts here, especially on your original point here about CNN, MSNBC, Fox News, everybody's got their opinion.
[01:25:12.960 --> 01:25:14.280]  We certainly have a right to our opinion.
[01:25:14.760 --> 01:25:16.440]  You are absolutely right.
[01:25:16.540 --> 01:25:18.240]  Your instincts are spot on.
[01:25:18.620 --> 01:25:20.320]  We're all political actors here.
[01:25:20.780 --> 01:25:20.900]  Yeah.
[01:25:20.960 --> 01:25:24.180]  Emanuel's right, too, because, well, we're political actors.
[01:25:24.180 --> 01:25:25.260]  We're human beings.
[01:25:25.260 --> 01:25:30.580]  We have opinions about politics, but we're also broadcasting as a 501c3 organization.
[01:25:30.580 --> 01:25:32.860]  So we can't stump for politicians.
[01:25:33.040 --> 01:25:33.820]  But let me tell you this.
[01:25:34.360 --> 01:25:51.340]  And this is what the case law establishes as well that I've looked at, is that those 501c3 regulations that apply to political speech, they do not take precedent or priority over the First Amendment of the U.S.
[01:25:51.460 --> 01:25:51.900]  Constitution.
[01:25:51.900 --> 01:25:54.220]  Free speech always wins.
[01:25:54.220 --> 01:25:55.520]  And that's awesome to hear from a lawyer.
[01:25:55.520 --> 01:25:57.660]  And that's what it always boils down to.
[01:25:57.700 --> 01:25:59.100]  That's really awesome to hear from a lawyer.
[01:25:59.300 --> 01:25:59.860]  I mean...
[01:25:59.860 --> 01:26:00.160]  That's right.
[01:26:00.460 --> 01:26:04.780]  The reason it was circulated the way it was is to cast doubt within the organization.
[01:26:04.780 --> 01:26:17.020]  And the reading of it is really, it's for letterhead, it's for station ownership to be, you know, influencing a party as in both being a nonprofit and then working for or against another party.
[01:26:17.680 --> 01:26:18.080]  Especially...
[01:26:18.080 --> 01:26:20.280]  It's a careful reading of it and is never...
[01:26:20.280 --> 01:26:24.800]  You know, guests were always allowed to speak freely and, you know, and so on and so forth.
[01:26:24.920 --> 01:26:27.220]  And then, of course, it applies to having politicians on.
[01:26:27.600 --> 01:26:31.180]  And, like, the worst part is, like, these conservatives were free speech activists.
[01:26:31.660 --> 01:26:32.060]  Yeah.
[01:26:32.240 --> 01:26:32.760]  Like, no.
[01:26:33.240 --> 01:26:34.180]  I mean, when...
[01:26:34.180 --> 01:26:38.540]  I mean, you know, I mean, they're about their speech, not this speech.
[01:26:38.840 --> 01:26:40.780]  And it kind of shows.
[01:26:41.060 --> 01:26:42.380]  Well, speaking of speech...
[01:26:42.380 --> 01:26:43.040]  It's disappointing, really, you know.
[01:26:43.040 --> 01:26:48.180]  Well, I mean, WBAI has a 60-year history of making risky statements.
[01:26:48.680 --> 01:26:48.760]  Yeah.
[01:26:48.760 --> 01:26:50.620]  I mean, what happened?
[01:26:51.120 --> 01:27:03.220]  When did we become so squeamish that we have to regulate our content to the lowest common denominator of a five... of a bullshit interpretation of a 501c3 regulation?
[01:27:03.780 --> 01:27:07.020]  Well, again, Alex, I think it's really just in order to gain control.
[01:27:07.280 --> 01:27:08.780]  If you can intimidate people...
[01:27:08.780 --> 01:27:09.020]  Of course it is.
[01:27:09.040 --> 01:27:12.640]  ...into believing this, then you can punish them when they don't do what you say.
[01:27:12.640 --> 01:27:16.640]  And I think that we have all the evidence we need to show that is what this is all about.
[01:27:16.760 --> 01:27:17.700]  I mean, a lot of...
[01:27:17.700 --> 01:27:18.460]  You know, this is not...
[01:27:18.460 --> 01:27:20.260]  I don't think this is anything more controversial.
[01:27:20.600 --> 01:27:22.640]  We're just asking for basic human decency.
[01:27:22.640 --> 01:27:24.140]  I mean, for a lot of the points.
[01:27:24.340 --> 01:27:24.680]  Mm-hmm.
[01:27:24.780 --> 01:27:26.020]  You know, that's just...
[01:27:26.020 --> 01:27:27.640]  You know...
[01:27:28.260 --> 01:27:28.580]  Yeah.
[01:27:28.900 --> 01:27:30.520]  Well, and the other thing is we're not a monolith.
[01:27:30.860 --> 01:27:36.660]  There's often a lot of topics that we disagree on and perhaps don't even get to fully express.
[01:27:37.060 --> 01:27:37.980]  I mean, we are limited.
[01:27:38.160 --> 01:27:42.560]  We have a short hour when we are on the air in our regular slot.
[01:27:42.560 --> 01:27:43.160]  So it's...
[01:27:43.160 --> 01:27:53.000]  You know, it's not as though we're just, you know, all conspiring to put out a certain position or a platform or something like that.
[01:27:53.120 --> 01:27:54.280]  I mean, most of it...
[01:27:54.280 --> 01:28:01.160]  And this goes back to what I was saying about us not being experts, not being even pundits or expert pundits or anything.
[01:28:01.160 --> 01:28:13.180]  Like, most of it is we're just airing what our opinions are and speaking and having the discussion so that we can try on ideas and so we can interact with callers.
[01:28:13.200 --> 01:28:22.520]  And that's often why we want to make our content approachable so that we're not speaking to only the elite tech, you know, engineering crowd.
[01:28:22.520 --> 01:28:24.220]  Like, we want to bring in people.
[01:28:24.360 --> 01:28:35.100]  We want the cultural aspects and the legal aspects to make sense to people who might be tuning in on the radio so that that has the broadest dissemination of...
[01:28:35.100 --> 01:28:49.380]  Which is what you really, really should be because like, the thing is though, I can all... the thing is I have a lot of quotes from like, you know, like a lot of biggest regret that I really have with this decade is to kind of like let people got very elitist.
[01:28:49.800 --> 01:28:53.980]  And there's some really good quotes from people from like back in the day that people forget.
[01:28:55.020 --> 01:29:01.120]  And there's a lot of people think that there's a synonym between like the hacker scene and literally kind of like a tech elite.
[01:29:01.120 --> 01:29:04.360]  And the whole point of the hacker scene is that it's not the tech elite.
[01:29:04.740 --> 01:29:07.240]  This is kind of like, this is computing for everybody else.
[01:29:08.020 --> 01:29:22.180]  And there's literally a quote, like especially this is not just starting with like, where your stomach goes back to like Ken Thompson and Dennis Ritchie when Ken Thompson once says, the quote was, with Unix we tend to make computing evolve for everybody.
[01:29:22.840 --> 01:29:35.560]  And I guess with the original Unix systems, you know, you had originally Multics and then you you have OK we have Unix which is now you have a computer operating system, evolved for a lesser system.
[01:29:35.820 --> 01:29:37.280]  And then when you have a decade later, right.
[01:29:37.600 --> 01:29:47.400]  And when you have even an operating system involved for even smaller computers, the end result was we wanted everyone to have a computer.
[01:29:47.400 --> 01:29:48.940]  And we wanted everyone to have access.
[01:29:49.840 --> 01:29:54.220]  It was kind of like what all of these people used to say.
[01:29:54.680 --> 01:30:01.180]  And for some reason, we have opinions that now we're going to restrict access?
[01:30:01.420 --> 01:30:01.820]  No.
[01:30:03.260 --> 01:30:04.720]  Thank you for your questions.
[01:30:04.940 --> 01:30:07.020]  We have another question from the internet.
[01:30:07.340 --> 01:30:08.660]  Actually, several people have asked this.
[01:30:08.740 --> 01:30:12.120]  They want the exact time and address to show up tomorrow.
[01:30:12.360 --> 01:30:17.320]  It's been answered online, and I think they're rightfully suggesting we keep mentioning it.
[01:30:17.400 --> 01:30:19.460]  So that people just tuning in get that.
[01:30:19.540 --> 01:30:23.800]  I'll keep saying it as many times as we have to, or people want us to say it.
[01:30:24.240 --> 01:30:37.600]  It is not... the hearing on whether or not the temporary restraining order will be vacated is tomorrow, 10 October, at 9.15 a.m.
[01:30:37.720 --> 01:30:39.860]  at 27 Madison Avenue.
[01:30:40.300 --> 01:30:43.600]  The cross street is 25th Street and Madison Avenue.
[01:30:43.600 --> 01:30:48.520]  The name of the court is the 1st Appellate Division of New York.
[01:30:48.700 --> 01:30:51.840]  So again, that is 27 Madison Avenue.
[01:30:52.300 --> 01:30:54.340]  The cross street is 25th Street.
[01:30:54.760 --> 01:30:56.400]  9.15 a.m.
[01:30:56.500 --> 01:30:57.600]  1st Appellate Division.
[01:30:57.840 --> 01:30:59.040]  Take a look at the docket.
[01:30:59.220 --> 01:31:03.620]  This one's probably going to be, you know, 1st, 2nd, or 3rd on the docket.
[01:31:03.920 --> 01:31:11.460]  Because if we win this, then there's going to be another hearing on the order to show cause why Pacifica should not be held in contempt.
[01:31:12.440 --> 01:31:14.820]  So then it gets even more interesting in the afternoon.
[01:31:14.820 --> 01:31:17.120]  And I have a lot of faith in Arthur Schwartz.
[01:31:17.240 --> 01:31:18.500]  I have a lot of faith in our case.
[01:31:19.820 --> 01:31:34.760]  I'm very optimistic that we will prevail in this TRO because the status quo here has to deal with free speech, has to deal with tens of thousands of listeners who contribute and rely on WBAI every hour of the day.
[01:31:35.740 --> 01:31:37.820]  And it's about constitutional issues.
[01:31:38.100 --> 01:31:40.900]  So I think that we will prevail.
[01:31:41.140 --> 01:31:42.340]  I hope that we will prevail.
[01:31:42.520 --> 01:31:51.000]  The more of you that show up tomorrow at 27 Madison Avenue, cross streets, 25th Street, 9.15 a.m., 1st Appellate Division.
[01:31:51.020 --> 01:31:51.680]  Show your support.
[01:31:51.900 --> 01:31:55.160]  And this is the appellate court that's a step up from the Supreme Court, correct?
[01:31:55.320 --> 01:31:55.800]  That's correct.
[01:31:56.000 --> 01:31:59.800]  The New York Supreme Court is the lowest level court in New York.
[01:31:59.940 --> 01:32:01.220]  It's the trial level court.
[01:32:01.220 --> 01:32:07.500]  The 1st Appellate Division hears appeals from orders of the Supreme Court in Manhattan.
[01:32:07.820 --> 01:32:09.560]  The 2nd Appellate Division would be Brooklyn.
[01:32:09.780 --> 01:32:11.720]  It's actually right around the corner from here.
[01:32:12.200 --> 01:32:19.180]  But the 1st Appellate Division, it's a beautiful building, quite an experience to go in there and argue a case or hear a case.
[01:32:19.300 --> 01:32:21.400]  So I would encourage everybody that can.
[01:32:21.400 --> 01:32:24.880]  And if you can't make it, you can still help by spreading the word about it.
[01:32:25.080 --> 01:32:25.480]  That's right.
[01:32:25.620 --> 01:32:28.100]  Getting the media to show up, getting more people to show up.
[01:32:28.100 --> 01:32:29.260]  Please get the word out.
[01:32:29.500 --> 01:32:30.480]  Super important.
[01:32:30.480 --> 01:32:33.280]  Our future could definitely be on the line tomorrow morning.
[01:32:33.540 --> 01:32:33.800]  Yes.
[01:32:34.100 --> 01:32:34.620]  Yeah.
[01:32:35.020 --> 01:32:42.600]  Going back a long way to 1984, or right in that area, I've been going to the 2600 meetings in Rochester, New York.
[01:32:42.880 --> 01:32:45.540]  And this has been a very important part of my life.
[01:32:45.580 --> 01:32:47.980]  And the only reason, I'm a WBAI buddy.
[01:32:48.860 --> 01:32:49.380]  Cool.
[01:32:49.380 --> 01:32:51.140]  So congratulations on so far.
[01:32:51.240 --> 01:32:53.580]  And I'm sure you'll do fine with this, as we always do.
[01:32:54.380 --> 01:32:59.620]  But in the interim, we also have 10 WBAI employees who are out of work right now.
[01:32:59.720 --> 01:33:03.040]  We have dozens of shows and people that have been affected by this.
[01:33:03.680 --> 01:33:12.000]  And right now, you're the only group and organization I've seen take any kind of leadership role with what's happening with WBAI and Pacifica right now.
[01:33:12.000 --> 01:33:17.940]  Now, are you going to be handling this directly, or is there a larger consortium?
[01:33:18.100 --> 01:33:20.700]  Is there anything being done for these employees who are now out of work?
[01:33:20.820 --> 01:33:22.480]  Well, I think right now it's kind of shell-shocked.
[01:33:22.560 --> 01:33:23.260]  People don't know what to do.
[01:33:23.340 --> 01:33:24.160]  It's been two days.
[01:33:24.720 --> 01:33:27.200]  I think you're going to see a lot more people speaking out.
[01:33:27.400 --> 01:33:32.520]  And once we figure out what's going on, you'll certainly see more voices.
[01:33:32.700 --> 01:33:34.520]  It won't just be us representing this.
[01:33:34.640 --> 01:33:35.700]  We just happen to be on.
[01:33:36.020 --> 01:33:38.120]  You know, we were expecting to be back on the air.
[01:33:38.260 --> 01:33:39.080]  We were hoping we would be.
[01:33:39.480 --> 01:33:41.200]  And we figured we had to do something.
[01:33:42.000 --> 01:33:45.840]  Yeah, and it's very important to note that it's not just us doing this.
[01:33:46.000 --> 01:33:47.460]  We're at no forefront of anything.
[01:33:47.600 --> 01:33:51.660]  It's all the producers here are coming together at meetings like the one we had last night.
[01:33:51.880 --> 01:33:56.200]  And the place to really stay glued to for what's going on with the entire station.
[01:33:56.240 --> 01:34:01.120]  Of course, we'll pass along the news through our venues as we get it.
[01:34:01.240 --> 01:34:09.740]  But stay glued to WBAI on Twitter, at WBAI, which is still controlled by our station management, not Pacifica.
[01:34:09.740 --> 01:34:18.380]  And I think that is the closest thing we have to an official venue where you can keep up with everything as it happens for the moment.
[01:34:18.920 --> 01:34:27.500]  But yeah, I got to shout out and thank all the other producers who came last night and who are planning more things going forward.
[01:34:27.500 --> 01:34:29.180]  There's actually another meeting going on right now.
[01:34:30.420 --> 01:34:32.560]  And just so much is being done.
[01:34:33.300 --> 01:34:34.420]  It's behind the scenes.
[01:34:34.560 --> 01:34:37.760]  I mean, by the nature of what we're doing here, we're kind of in front of the scenes right now.
[01:34:37.880 --> 01:34:39.800]  But don't take that to mean it's just us.
[01:34:39.940 --> 01:34:43.860]  It is so many people coming together because this is damn important.
[01:34:45.020 --> 01:34:45.380]  Awesome.
[01:34:45.380 --> 01:34:52.080]  The other thing I'd want to mention is, can we go back on the air without an EBS or not?
[01:34:52.780 --> 01:34:54.020]  That's the old word for it.
[01:34:54.100 --> 01:34:54.980]  It's the old word for it.
[01:34:55.000 --> 01:34:55.660]  EBS is the old system.
[01:34:56.440 --> 01:34:58.200]  Well, is Reggie still here?
[01:34:59.420 --> 01:35:00.420]  No, the EAS.
[01:35:01.240 --> 01:35:03.400]  Yeah, there's a couple things.
[01:35:03.620 --> 01:35:04.700]  It's EAB you talked about.
[01:35:04.760 --> 01:35:07.120]  It's EAS, Emergency Alert System.
[01:35:07.120 --> 01:35:08.680]  So there's a couple things.
[01:35:09.040 --> 01:35:13.660]  Basically, there's still some assessment going on.
[01:35:13.800 --> 01:35:22.800]  But in order for the station to be legal, they have to have an operating EAS where it is originating or in the terrestrial area of the signal.
[01:35:23.060 --> 01:35:31.200]  And part of what they did, what these provocateurs, whatever, hijackers, IEDs, what they did is they came in and dismantled a lot of things.
[01:35:31.200 --> 01:35:40.880]  And part of what was missing was the unit that was housed at the station's equipment room here at 388.
[01:35:41.100 --> 01:35:46.160]  And what we're hearing, we're hearing different stories about how this was actually done.
[01:35:46.160 --> 01:35:53.540]  I think there was some technical, some changes to the link that actually sends the signal.
[01:35:53.540 --> 01:36:06.840]  And we don't really know yet how they went about doing it and what parts of the planning kept the current iteration of what Pacifica is doing legal.
[01:36:07.580 --> 01:36:26.140]  But suffice to say, until we get that equipment and then get our connection to the transmitter reestablished, because in the process we were also cut out of that signal path, the circuit directly from the studios to the station or to the transmitter site,
[01:36:26.480 --> 01:36:34.820]  that site may have equipment now that Pacifica has installed so that they can work or function.
[01:36:34.820 --> 01:36:35.600]  We don't really know.
[01:36:35.900 --> 01:36:37.540]  We're trying to get a technical assessment.
[01:36:37.740 --> 01:36:42.940]  I know that's all, again, part of what is going on in the background and with the engineers here.
[01:36:43.040 --> 01:36:45.760]  One thing that's true, though, is our people are professionals.
[01:36:45.960 --> 01:36:52.000]  They're not going to go on unless it's legal, unless it's safe, unless it's what we're ready to do.
[01:36:52.500 --> 01:36:54.020]  And they know what they're doing.
[01:36:54.020 --> 01:36:54.880]  We trust them.
[01:36:55.100 --> 01:37:02.340]  It's just a shame that these other people came in and dismantled things that they knew was vital for us to continue broadcasting.
[01:37:02.340 --> 01:37:05.880]  But it speaks to their motives, and I hope people judge them based on that.
[01:37:06.000 --> 01:37:13.600]  One last thing is, what's being done for the legally required under the FCC station identification at the top of the hour when they're simulcasting?
[01:37:13.600 --> 01:37:20.020]  They're feeding... I'm not exactly sure how they're doing this, but they are feeding a signal that does give a legal ID once an hour.
[01:37:20.460 --> 01:37:22.760]  Whatever system they're running, they produced...
[01:37:22.760 --> 01:37:32.620]  I think... I heard that they took some of the carts and audio that's produced here locally, but what I heard being broadcast today was a pre-produ...
[01:37:32.620 --> 01:37:44.060]  They produced their own WBAI station IDs to replace and to sort of augment the content, which in and of itself is just going to play hourly, half-hourly.
[01:37:44.060 --> 01:37:51.000]  It doesn't, in and of itself, have those legal IDs, but they did produce them to replace what would have originated here.
[01:37:51.000 --> 01:37:52.460]  Yeah, it's not being done by a human either.
[01:37:52.600 --> 01:37:53.380]  It's kind of clumsy sometimes.
[01:37:53.380 --> 01:37:57.120]  You'll hear the legal ID talking on top of somebody else talking sometimes.
[01:37:57.420 --> 01:38:00.580]  So, you know, that's your disembodied radio for you.
[01:38:00.720 --> 01:38:10.180]  And they're interjecting Pacifica News, too, which happens to be talking about this very news story, and in uniquely Pacifica ways.
[01:38:10.180 --> 01:38:11.540]  So I'll just leave that.
[01:38:11.780 --> 01:38:20.320]  I mean, they're characterizing it as, oh, you know, WBAIs, you know, they're feeble, they're not able to take care of themselves, all that kind of boulder dash.
[01:38:20.760 --> 01:38:23.820]  And also something about the chocolate ration going up to eight grams or something.
[01:38:24.780 --> 01:38:25.260]  Thank you.
[01:38:25.400 --> 01:38:31.920]  We're down to about our last five minutes or so, so I'm going to open things up if there's another question from the floor.
[01:38:32.300 --> 01:38:34.580]  And anyone else online, this is your last chance.
[01:38:34.700 --> 01:38:37.120]  Just put a question, Colin, ask us a question.
[01:38:37.220 --> 01:38:39.240]  We'll try to get to it, but we're running out of time.
[01:38:39.320 --> 01:38:39.480]  Go ahead.
[01:38:39.480 --> 01:38:40.860]  One brief question.
[01:38:41.120 --> 01:38:58.180]  Going back to the domain and re-seizing that, if possible, would it be possible by chance to give the paperwork for the injunction granted to you by the court to your domain provider to re-enable the domain?
[01:38:58.560 --> 01:38:59.660]  Yes, that's being looked at.
[01:38:59.860 --> 01:39:02.760]  That's exactly the process that would go over here.
[01:39:02.760 --> 01:39:04.040]  That's all I had to say.
[01:39:04.100 --> 01:39:12.920]  That's exactly what's going to happen, and I believe that Arthur Schwartz is asking for another order directing them specifically to do that.
[01:39:13.040 --> 01:39:18.460]  It may not even come to that, given the sort of depth.
[01:39:18.820 --> 01:39:21.160]  I don't think we're able to get that far in.
[01:39:21.160 --> 01:39:32.320]  But that's, again, being assessed, and yeah, if it needs to come to that, we'll absolutely, I'm sure, pass along any news, but it'll probably go through a legal channel if it has to.
[01:39:32.460 --> 01:39:34.440]  But really, it's about changing that over.
[01:39:34.620 --> 01:39:35.280]  Reggie is here.
[01:39:35.400 --> 01:39:43.240]  He was the studio engineer that was featured on New York One, a superstar, but yet he still hangs out with us.
[01:39:43.480 --> 01:39:45.300]  Yeah, go figure, you know.
[01:39:45.300 --> 01:39:49.340]  He was here Monday morning when all the shit went down.
[01:39:49.680 --> 01:39:51.860]  Well, let me be straight with this.
[01:39:51.980 --> 01:39:53.660]  I wasn't here during the morning.
[01:39:53.960 --> 01:39:57.280]  I was on my way to work when all this stuff happened.
[01:39:57.540 --> 01:40:01.720]  And the back story to this, I was late for work.
[01:40:01.840 --> 01:40:02.240]  Oh, dear.
[01:40:02.440 --> 01:40:04.620]  Okay, I was actually late for work.
[01:40:04.640 --> 01:40:05.460]  And now everyone knows.
[01:40:05.460 --> 01:40:16.840]  And what happened is, I was not paying attention to any of my phone notifications whatsoever, and my phone was off.
[01:40:16.980 --> 01:40:18.200]  It was actually off.
[01:40:18.480 --> 01:40:31.500]  And when I showed up, I saw this big sign saying, well, since we're not on, there's no FCC violations, I'm just going to paraphrase, you're fired.
[01:40:32.280 --> 01:40:34.160]  You know, that's what pretty much it is.
[01:40:34.320 --> 01:40:35.160]  You're f*cking fired.
[01:40:36.420 --> 01:40:45.620]  So what made it interesting is that I was just hanging around, and then all of a sudden, you know, there was people that was asking me, well, what happened to WBAI?
[01:40:46.280 --> 01:40:47.580]  What happened to WBAI?
[01:40:47.580 --> 01:40:52.460]  And I'm like, oh, well, I'm checking right now to see my email.
[01:40:53.140 --> 01:41:04.220]  And then the people from The Independent wanted to do an interview with me, and that just got me thinking about, ooh, maybe I should talk about these things.
[01:41:04.400 --> 01:41:13.580]  And to my surprise and delight, Zach Fink from New York One, who used to be an intern for WBAI.
[01:41:13.580 --> 01:41:13.820]  Really?
[01:41:14.060 --> 01:41:14.620]  Oh, yeah.
[01:41:14.800 --> 01:41:18.600]  Who used to be an intern for Wake Up Call, okay?
[01:41:19.020 --> 01:41:20.660]  That's where the connection is.
[01:41:21.160 --> 01:41:33.260]  Came over, and he already finished interviewing Randy Credico earlier, and he came over to meet up with Jay Smoove, who happens to be a classmate, okay?
[01:41:33.540 --> 01:41:34.760]  That's where all the connection is.
[01:41:34.760 --> 01:41:36.200]  This is the magic of this place.
[01:41:36.220 --> 01:41:40.720]  Yeah, who happens to be a classmate, and that's where all the magic of that is.
[01:41:40.720 --> 01:41:45.820]  And I know that if Jay Smoove is listening to this, he's like, oh, God, now my spot is blown up now.
[01:41:47.800 --> 01:41:51.480]  But I noticed that I saw Zach.
[01:41:51.600 --> 01:41:52.580]  I said, hey, Zach, what's up?
[01:41:52.620 --> 01:41:53.180]  What are you here for?
[01:41:53.300 --> 01:41:55.360]  You know, I'm here for Jay Smoove to talk about this.
[01:41:55.460 --> 01:41:56.920]  You want to talk about what's going on?
[01:41:57.120 --> 01:41:58.920]  And so that's what happened.
[01:42:00.080 --> 01:42:04.540]  And I have to say, it's surreal.
[01:42:04.540 --> 01:42:06.900]  It is really, really, really, really surreal.
[01:42:07.060 --> 01:42:16.760]  But what is very heartening about this whole situation is that it goes to show you that people do pay attention to WBAI.
[01:42:16.860 --> 01:42:17.920]  That's first and foremost.
[01:42:20.020 --> 01:42:24.160]  And I've been posting up videos on Facebook about what was going on upstairs.
[01:42:26.000 --> 01:42:27.800]  But here's the bottom line.
[01:42:29.920 --> 01:42:37.640]  Yes, I am absolutely hoping for the injunction to favor WBAI.
[01:42:38.340 --> 01:42:40.100]  But here's the reality.
[01:42:42.020 --> 01:42:48.420]  WBAI, as well as Pacifica as a whole, and everything that you said earlier, I 1,000% agree.
[01:42:49.140 --> 01:42:57.060]  We need to realize that the model that we have right now no longer works.
[01:42:57.360 --> 01:42:59.380]  We need to be honest with ourselves.
[01:42:59.600 --> 01:43:15.280]  And I think part of the problem for what WBAI and Pacifica as a whole is experiencing right now is a bunch of well-intended individuals that can't think outside of the box.
[01:43:15.280 --> 01:43:24.080]  And we need to learn how to function and how to fundraise within the 21st century.
[01:43:24.280 --> 01:43:33.080]  And we're about to approach the third decade of the 21st century, and we're still fundraising as it's 1993.
[01:43:34.100 --> 01:43:37.380]  And the problem is that that's part of the problem.
[01:43:38.180 --> 01:43:48.400]  You know, when the bottom line is, and I'm hoping for the case to be on our side, but then we have to be honest with ourselves, what's next?
[01:43:48.880 --> 01:43:55.080]  Are we going to put out more Gary Noe, Green Stuff, re-broadcasts?
[01:43:55.240 --> 01:44:00.740]  Are we going to play Christine Blasdale, Boku broadcasts?
[01:44:01.120 --> 01:44:01.840]  No.
[01:44:02.180 --> 01:44:16.060]  What makes WBAI, as well as every other station in the listening area, distinctive and special is the producers that represent the communities that they all represent.
[01:44:16.660 --> 01:44:18.160]  It's as simple as that.
[01:44:18.860 --> 01:44:26.200]  You know, what y'all do here on a weekly basis, every Wednesday, hell, I listen to y'all every time, of course.
[01:44:26.540 --> 01:44:33.300]  In fact, encountering with y'all motherf*ckers out here is one of the highlights of my day on Wednesday.
[01:44:33.300 --> 01:44:36.720]  You know, so I really, I can honestly say that.
[01:44:36.880 --> 01:44:43.360]  Yes, I can honestly say that I like hanging out with the guys from Off the Hook.
[01:44:43.660 --> 01:44:45.260]  It's as simple as that.
[01:44:45.640 --> 01:44:46.020]  Likewise.
[01:44:47.060 --> 01:44:48.480]  We need to get that in writing.
[01:44:48.920 --> 01:44:49.160]  Yeah.
[01:44:49.300 --> 01:44:54.800]  So, but the thing is, is that we have so many opportunities.
[01:44:54.800 --> 01:45:06.800]  And how things turn around so quickly in order to get that TRO, in order to get the appellate court case to happen for tomorrow, really goes to show that we do have ingenuity.
[01:45:06.940 --> 01:45:13.100]  But our focus has to be put into the ingenuity of getting us out of the debt.
[01:45:13.640 --> 01:45:15.160]  And the collective debt.
[01:45:15.320 --> 01:45:19.440]  It's not the debt that is exclusively WBAI, as you have mentioned.
[01:45:19.440 --> 01:45:22.260]  But it's the collective debt of Pacifica.
[01:45:22.440 --> 01:45:24.340]  Stop putting the blame on them, folks.
[01:45:24.820 --> 01:45:26.540]  Own what has happened.
[01:45:27.040 --> 01:45:30.640]  And then, eventually, we may can move forward with that.
[01:45:30.860 --> 01:45:42.800]  I don't know what the legal process of using something like a Patreon as a way of a fundraising mechanism to do this for broadcast.
[01:45:42.800 --> 01:45:49.040]  But just throwing things like that out in the air is to step in the right direction.
[01:45:49.160 --> 01:45:54.860]  And we need to understand that we are in 2019, about to go into 2020.
[01:45:55.180 --> 01:45:56.660]  And we're not in 1990.
[01:45:57.080 --> 01:45:58.380]  You know, the president...
[01:45:58.380 --> 01:45:59.700]  I hate to break this to y'all.
[01:45:59.880 --> 01:46:01.300]  The president is Donald Trump.
[01:46:01.300 --> 01:46:02.280]  It's not Bill Clinton.
[01:46:02.860 --> 01:46:04.860]  And we need to understand that.
[01:46:05.260 --> 01:46:10.080]  Because, you know, I don't know when the last time the Mets won the World Series.
[01:46:10.200 --> 01:46:10.940]  No, it was 86.
[01:46:11.200 --> 01:46:11.540]  That's right.
[01:46:11.540 --> 01:46:13.200]  So, we're not living, yeah.
[01:46:13.400 --> 01:46:15.120]  So, we have to live in the present.
[01:46:15.440 --> 01:46:16.140]  I'm sorry.
[01:46:16.260 --> 01:46:16.700]  I'm sorry.
[01:46:16.700 --> 01:46:17.800]  I'm sorry to break that to you.
[01:46:25.540 --> 01:46:29.400]  Reggie, you bring up so many important points and dialogue.
[01:46:29.680 --> 01:46:30.660]  Yes, that is what it's about.
[01:46:30.860 --> 01:46:33.120]  Taking a good, critical look at ourselves.
[01:46:33.880 --> 01:46:37.180]  Patreon, sub-carriers, maybe even reconsider underwriting.
[01:46:37.620 --> 01:46:38.820]  There are solutions.
[01:46:39.020 --> 01:46:41.260]  There are ways of figuring this out.
[01:46:41.540 --> 01:46:43.260]  But not if we're tearing each other apart.
[01:46:43.500 --> 01:46:43.600]  Absolutely.
[01:46:43.940 --> 01:46:45.400]  Not if we're shutting the stations down.
[01:46:45.640 --> 01:46:46.980]  We have to talk.
[01:46:47.140 --> 01:46:47.960]  We have to converse.
[01:46:48.160 --> 01:46:49.160]  We have to think creatively.
[01:46:49.540 --> 01:46:52.480]  And a crazy idea that I threw up just in the pop of my head.
[01:46:52.680 --> 01:46:59.140]  You know, is it crazy enough to think that Pacifica itself can create its own social media site?
[01:46:59.820 --> 01:47:01.880]  It's own social media platform.
[01:47:02.540 --> 01:47:06.840]  I mean, these are the many things that I'll discuss with so many people.
[01:47:07.460 --> 01:47:08.320]  But, yeah.
[01:47:08.500 --> 01:47:12.380]  I just want to add, you know, I cannot all fall on the audience and the producers.
[01:47:12.380 --> 01:47:14.700]  And a lot of the model does need to change.
[01:47:14.840 --> 01:47:19.480]  And we've seen other community stations work on like subscription type things.
[01:47:19.520 --> 01:47:19.820]  Yes.
[01:47:20.440 --> 01:47:21.600]  In other countries.
[01:47:22.240 --> 01:47:23.560]  And it does...
[01:47:23.560 --> 01:47:24.820]  There are other models that can work.
[01:47:24.940 --> 01:47:30.520]  But the fatigue of constant fundraising, that kind of thing, we understand that.
[01:47:30.600 --> 01:47:36.100]  And I think a lot of producers can relate because it takes away from the ability to fully program.
[01:47:36.500 --> 01:47:44.640]  And if we're chasing down, you know, tote bags all the time, what kind of show do we really end up putting out?
[01:47:44.640 --> 01:47:54.680]  So that, I would absolutely, I would say, that needs to be something that we explore as a community coming back together when we catch the car or, you know, when we win.
[01:47:54.840 --> 01:48:03.720]  And see, and what I love about your guys, as well as every other show that I have ever encountered with WBAI, is the idea, y'all get it.
[01:48:03.880 --> 01:48:14.460]  Y'all get the idea that you could correlate situations that are happening within the internet with the outside world.
[01:48:14.640 --> 01:48:16.900]  And, you know, and that's...
[01:48:16.900 --> 01:48:32.500]  And because the reason for all of that is because you understand that you're representing a community, but also you're educating and informing other people who may not know certain things that is important to them.
[01:48:32.740 --> 01:48:34.720]  And that's what it all is about.
[01:48:34.900 --> 01:48:36.180]  It's an education process.
[01:48:36.180 --> 01:48:50.900]  And what I'm saying is that WBAI, the premium itself, should be the programs and the efforts that is being put to the producer on a weekly or daily basis.
[01:48:51.160 --> 01:48:53.240]  And we need to understand that.
[01:48:53.320 --> 01:48:58.240]  We need to focus and to admit, what direction are we going to go?
[01:48:58.240 --> 01:49:08.100]  Are we going to go and support and big up all the producers that are putting in the hard work and the listeners that are listening to these producers?
[01:49:08.360 --> 01:49:16.440]  Or we are going to end up becoming and continue to be a piss-poor version of the Home Shopping Network?
[01:49:17.040 --> 01:49:17.780]  You know?
[01:49:18.400 --> 01:49:19.440]  That's really...
[01:49:19.440 --> 01:49:20.760]  That's what it comes down to.
[01:49:21.320 --> 01:49:21.880]  Thank you, Reggie.
[01:49:22.060 --> 01:49:22.580]  Thank you for that.
[01:49:22.820 --> 01:49:23.460]  All right, Reggie.
[01:49:25.800 --> 01:49:28.120]  And thanks for all you do for WBAI.
[01:49:28.520 --> 01:49:30.300]  Oh, I think this is WBAI New York.
[01:49:30.500 --> 01:49:30.880]  Well, okay.
[01:49:31.060 --> 01:49:31.400]  Maybe not.
[01:49:32.000 --> 01:49:32.940]  But it will be.
[01:49:33.520 --> 01:49:35.820]  Guys, we have to thank everybody who's been...
[01:49:35.820 --> 01:49:38.540]  As we wrap this up here, we've got to thank everybody who showed up tonight.
[01:49:38.700 --> 01:49:41.640]  Everybody who's been keeping up on the stream.
[01:49:41.880 --> 01:49:44.300]  Keep sharing the stream URL because that's...
[01:49:44.300 --> 01:49:47.840]  After we shut down, it's going to turn into a video of this whole thing that just happened.
[01:49:48.320 --> 01:49:49.240]  It'll archive this thing.
[01:49:49.320 --> 01:49:51.120]  You can re-watch it and keep spreading it around.
[01:49:51.120 --> 01:49:53.540]  And thank you to the Commons for having us here.
[01:49:53.700 --> 01:49:54.700]  Thank you so much.
[01:49:54.840 --> 01:49:56.000]  To the Brooklyn Commons.
[01:49:56.080 --> 01:49:56.480]  388 Atlantic Avenue.
[01:49:56.500 --> 01:49:59.720]  The Commons is facing all kinds of problems as a result of Pacifica's actions.
[01:50:00.080 --> 01:50:01.220]  388 Atlantic Avenue.
[01:50:01.360 --> 01:50:01.620]  Come by.
[01:50:01.740 --> 01:50:02.360]  Support the place.
[01:50:04.980 --> 01:50:05.480]  Absolutely.
[01:50:06.100 --> 01:50:06.600]  And...
[01:50:06.600 --> 01:50:07.760]  Much respect to Babatunde.
[01:50:08.080 --> 01:50:08.760]  Yeah, Babatunde.
[01:50:08.760 --> 01:50:12.240]  Much respect to Babatunde, the Commons engineer who's been helping us with all this.
[01:50:12.380 --> 01:50:17.480]  And one last time, tomorrow morning, 9.15 a.m., 27 Madison Avenue.
[01:50:17.480 --> 01:50:29.580]  That's when the First Appellate Division is going to determine whether the injunction that was issued against Pacifica that forces them to allow WBAI back on the air will be vacated.
[01:50:29.920 --> 01:50:31.180]  So show up if you can.
[01:50:31.600 --> 01:50:32.240]  Thank you all.
[01:50:32.360 --> 01:50:34.280]  Updates will be on the 2600 Twitter feed.
[01:50:34.480 --> 01:50:34.880]  WBA...
[01:50:34.880 --> 01:50:40.320]  Well, actually, we don't have control of the WBAI.org site, but we'll get that back and give updates there.
[01:50:40.500 --> 01:50:42.160]  And the WBAI Twitter feed as well.
[01:50:42.260 --> 01:50:43.080]  That is us.
[01:50:43.160 --> 01:50:44.060]  That is not Pacifica.
[01:50:45.560 --> 01:50:46.340]  Thank you all.
[01:50:46.560 --> 01:50:47.280]  Thank you.
[01:50:47.820 --> 01:50:48.440]  Thank you.
[01:51:05.150 --> 01:51:06.710]  We've got to be a little scrappy.
[01:51:06.830 --> 01:51:07.550]  This is WBAI.
[01:51:07.850 --> 01:51:09.670]  Thank you.