[00:33.980 --> 00:37.260]  And this is WBAI New York.
[00:37.440 --> 00:39.520]  It's time for Off The Hook.
[01:13.910 --> 01:20.830]  And it's another edition of Off The Hook, the show about hacking and technology, privacy, all kinds of things like that.
[01:21.310 --> 01:23.730]  This is Emmanuel Goldstein, joined tonight by Kyle.
[01:24.030 --> 01:24.490]  Hi there.
[01:24.730 --> 01:26.910]  We're going to be joining a whole bunch of other people as well.
[01:26.990 --> 01:30.930]  But first, I think we should just take a couple of moments to acknowledge last week.
[01:31.030 --> 01:38.330]  It was a complete disaster of a show because technology, rightfully so, kind of kicked us in the ass.
[01:38.750 --> 01:39.950]  And we weren't ready.
[01:40.110 --> 01:41.870]  We weren't ready to deal with that.
[01:42.250 --> 01:45.650]  And we've learned so much since in the past week.
[01:45.750 --> 01:46.670]  We really have.
[01:47.130 --> 01:56.830]  What we're going to be doing is basically, since we can't test live on the air like we were trying to do last week, we're going to test by going back in time a little bit.
[01:56.990 --> 02:09.330]  What that means is the first part of the show is going to be a recording that will enable us to test to see if our various functions and features actually work in a live environment.
[02:09.470 --> 02:11.590]  And if they don't, then we have a half hour to fix them.
[02:11.830 --> 02:13.350]  And if they do, then we're set.
[02:13.470 --> 02:16.510]  And we just simply will join you in a half hour live.
[02:16.990 --> 02:27.130]  But honestly, the conversation that we've had in the past, that we've already had, that we know about, that you don't, could easily be a live conversation.
[02:27.930 --> 02:30.690]  I've confused myself already, and I fear many, many others.
[02:31.530 --> 02:35.930]  Well, okay, let's, let's just focus on something quickly before we go back into the, into the past.
[02:36.130 --> 02:38.590]  And that is what's going on right now in the present.
[02:39.830 --> 02:49.010]  WBAI, this radio station, this amazing place where we come week after week and basically share information about the world of hacking, the world of technology.
[02:50.410 --> 02:51.950]  This place needs to be supported.
[02:52.330 --> 03:01.910]  And your call right now to 516-620-3602 with a pledge of whatever it is you can afford is how this radio station stays on the air.
[03:02.050 --> 03:02.550]  No other way.
[03:02.670 --> 03:03.390]  That's it.
[03:03.810 --> 03:04.250]  Yeah.
[03:04.410 --> 03:06.530]  Community broadcasting is all about the community.
[03:06.690 --> 03:17.130]  And we are just talking tonight about just our, our part of it, but we're, we're aware of the station as a wider community.
[03:17.130 --> 03:22.670]  And we like to bring in and support as many different perspectives as possible.
[03:22.970 --> 03:47.370]  And when you fund the station, you're funding operations and vital things that actually allow us to be able to maintain our, our operations, our staff, all of those things that go on behind the scenes, especially, uh, at a time when, um, it is, uh, especially hard,
[03:47.370 --> 03:57.190]  uh, for staff and producers to, uh, continue live, um, uh, real discussions that we appreciate so much here at WBAI.
[03:57.410 --> 04:15.470]  And we demonstrated that last week, how difficult it is because what we're doing right now, what we're doing is we're broadcasting from a remote location, uh, to another remote location where our, our engineer Reggie is, and he's getting the show to the station and then to the transmitter from there and then to your ears.
[04:15.930 --> 04:16.070]  Yeah.
[04:16.210 --> 04:17.730]  Think about the, the miracle of that.
[04:17.850 --> 04:31.290]  And, and also some of the staff that have had to be, um, uh, maintaining as essential operations staff, uh, for the month that a lot of us were able to at least stay home or couldn't, uh, leave the home.
[04:31.810 --> 04:43.670]  And, uh, if you were able to work or not, uh, notwithstanding, there were essential workers that really, uh, had to do things in, uh, tight proximity, commuting on, on mass transit.
[04:43.810 --> 04:57.290]  All of that stuff is why it's so critical to, um, follow and follow instructions of your, uh, local representatives and, uh, having a place like a radio station get that out is a part of that process.
[04:57.790 --> 05:04.890]  And, um, the continuity of service is, uh, especially true in, uh, broadcast communications.
[05:04.930 --> 05:16.210]  So we, we are, um, doing our part and, and are thankful to all of the support, uh, because that's what it goes to is, uh, getting out this message and this incredible show.
[05:17.070 --> 05:17.510]  Yeah.
[05:17.590 --> 05:18.510]  Well, I don't know if we're incredible.
[05:18.630 --> 05:19.410]  The station's incredible.
[05:19.910 --> 05:20.090]  Yeah.
[05:20.150 --> 05:21.690]  I guess, you know, we're, we have our moments.
[05:21.850 --> 05:22.130]  We do.
[05:22.350 --> 05:23.510]  And last week certainly was one.
[05:23.670 --> 05:25.950]  I said, I said, incredible, incredible, incredible.
[05:25.950 --> 05:26.830]  I didn't know that was a word.
[05:27.070 --> 05:27.270]  Okay.
[05:27.630 --> 05:29.110]  I should get used to it.
[05:29.170 --> 05:29.590]  No, it's okay.
[05:29.750 --> 05:30.330]  No, it's fine.
[05:30.410 --> 05:31.050]  That's just fine.
[05:31.790 --> 05:33.370]  Ah, boy, I can hardly wait to go into the past.
[05:33.550 --> 05:41.690]  Um, but let's, let's just emphasize the point that the radio station is essential and needs to be preserved.
[05:41.850 --> 05:43.170]  It was taken away from us in October.
[05:43.170 --> 05:44.130]  We got it back.
[05:44.310 --> 05:45.190]  You got it back.
[05:45.550 --> 05:52.150]  We all pitched in together and, and fought for this place as we've done so many times since the first went on the air back in 1960.
[05:52.570 --> 06:03.030]  So your call to 516-620-3602 with a pledge of whatever you can afford is your vote, your, your investment in this place to keep free speech on the air.
[06:03.190 --> 06:08.870]  Never has it been so important, both in these times of Trump and these times of a global pandemic.
[06:09.210 --> 06:11.230]  This is where you tune to for information.
[06:11.230 --> 06:17.970]  And I've heard so much good information on this radio station and so much opportunity for listeners to, to be part of that conversation.
[06:17.970 --> 06:19.910]  That is what community radio is all about.
[06:20.170 --> 06:21.930]  And that's why we need to preserve this place.
[06:22.350 --> 06:27.410]  Uh, there are all kinds of premiums you can ask for when you call 516-620-3602.
[06:27.690 --> 06:31.110]  Uh, there's, there's many, many things on, on the website too.
[06:31.210 --> 06:34.450]  You can go to give to WBAI.org and, and, and peruse those.
[06:35.030 --> 06:42.690]  But the important thing, the most important thing is that the radio station itself have enough to survive from day to day.
[06:42.730 --> 06:44.270]  And it's, it's a real challenge.
[06:44.430 --> 06:46.070]  It obviously is a challenge for everybody.
[06:46.070 --> 06:47.450]  It's a challenge for us as well.
[06:47.930 --> 06:55.890]  So please, as well as, as calling yourself, tell your friends, tell your family, tell everybody you can.
[06:56.090 --> 06:58.050]  516-620-3602.
[06:58.210 --> 07:00.690]  Keep WBAI on the air.
[07:01.710 --> 07:02.210]  All right.
[07:02.270 --> 07:12.950]  So now what we're going to do is join some of our friends in the prerecorded segment and also test out our live connection so that we'll have around a half hour to fix any problems rather than having to scramble and fix them immediately.
[07:13.530 --> 07:17.130]  So I'm going to run a few tests now to see if we have any problems.
[07:18.110 --> 07:20.010]  So people don't get confused.
[07:20.270 --> 07:30.670]  I'm a recording, but I'm about to speak to our other off the hook co-hosts who are in the present and they will have five seconds for an answer to each question that they're asked.
[07:30.930 --> 07:31.330]  Okay.
[07:32.050 --> 07:32.970]  First question.
[07:33.850 --> 07:37.370]  Are you all able to hear the recorded version of my voice?
[07:37.550 --> 07:38.610]  Yes or no?
[07:40.030 --> 07:40.470]  Yes.
[07:40.650 --> 07:40.810]  Yes.
[07:43.700 --> 07:44.320]  Thank you.
[07:44.580 --> 07:48.380]  For the next question, I will temporarily speak to you from the present.
[07:49.460 --> 07:50.820]  Yes, here I am in the present.
[07:51.180 --> 07:52.800]  Can you hear me, guys?
[07:53.640 --> 07:54.640]  Yes, we can hear you.
[07:54.760 --> 07:55.140]  We can hear you.
[07:55.360 --> 07:56.620]  Do you hear the subway train?
[07:57.700 --> 07:58.600]  Yes, we hear that.
[07:58.600 --> 07:59.880]  Thank you to our co-hosts.
[08:00.420 --> 08:02.420]  We're going to go back and cast now.
[08:02.860 --> 08:04.720]  But all that went over the air.
[08:05.000 --> 08:07.320]  We'll resume the live portion of the show in around a half hour.
[08:07.680 --> 08:11.820]  If there are any problems, then we have around 30 minutes to try and fix them.
[08:12.220 --> 08:16.560]  Either way, let's now meet our guests who, again, are not in the present.
[08:17.440 --> 08:24.720]  So we're joined in the past by most of the people who were here last week during that disastrous show.
[08:25.280 --> 08:29.040]  But we're going to do it on recording so that we know it works.
[08:29.700 --> 08:32.980]  So joining us tonight is our usual Rob T.
[08:33.120 --> 08:33.460]  Firefly.
[08:34.190 --> 08:35.540]  Hello from the past.
[08:36.040 --> 08:36.340]  Gila.
[08:37.100 --> 08:38.720]  Greetings and belated salutations.
[08:39.260 --> 08:39.790]  Alex.
[08:40.240 --> 08:40.860]  Oh, that's right.
[08:40.960 --> 08:44.660]  Alex isn't here because he actually went back in time to do something else.
[08:44.960 --> 08:46.120]  We'll get to that later.
[08:46.580 --> 08:52.050]  But joining us on the Skype is Greg from Ontario.
[08:52.720 --> 08:53.930]  Hey, it's great to be here.
[08:54.640 --> 08:57.170]  And we have Aesthetics in Berlin.
[08:58.310 --> 08:58.760]  Hi.
[09:00.170 --> 09:04.740]  And a bonus, we did not have this last week when we were trying to do a live show.
[09:04.810 --> 09:07.500]  We have Mitch Altman also in Berlin.
[09:07.720 --> 09:08.720]  I think it's Berlin, right?
[09:09.640 --> 09:10.670]  Yeah, I'm in Berlin.
[09:10.860 --> 09:11.100]  Greetings.
[09:11.820 --> 09:13.780]  So the two of you are in Berlin at the same time?
[09:15.370 --> 09:17.020]  Yes, we live here.
[09:17.360 --> 09:20.660]  Two Americans in Berlin living there at the same time.
[09:21.120 --> 09:21.560]  Imagine.
[09:22.780 --> 09:23.520]  Well, great.
[09:23.820 --> 09:25.040]  So did I leave LA out?
[09:25.240 --> 09:28.040]  There's so many... We're on Skype and I'm not looking at Skype.
[09:28.140 --> 09:29.260]  I don't believe in looking at Skype.
[09:29.380 --> 09:29.940]  That covers it.
[09:30.020 --> 09:30.460]  That's everyone.
[09:30.580 --> 09:31.320]  And myself.
[09:31.560 --> 09:32.940]  Well, yeah, but we already introduced ourselves.
[09:33.080 --> 09:33.680]  We don't have to do that again.
[09:33.760 --> 09:34.300]  No, it's obvious.
[09:34.300 --> 09:34.740]  I'm here.
[09:34.860 --> 09:43.840]  So what we were trying to talk about last week before all the technical snafus happened at once... First of all, let me explain why we did that.
[09:43.920 --> 09:44.560]  That was intentional.
[09:44.780 --> 09:48.540]  No, you think we were that bad that we actually screwed up a show that bad?
[09:48.640 --> 09:48.960]  No, no, no.
[09:49.200 --> 09:50.980]  We were trying to make a point.
[09:51.400 --> 09:55.560]  That technology is something that can turn on you in a second.
[09:55.840 --> 09:57.920]  And when it does, you have to be prepared.
[09:57.920 --> 10:01.040]  And we tried to demonstrate what it's like not to be prepared.
[10:01.660 --> 10:02.420]  Get it?
[10:02.600 --> 10:14.100]  So what we are doing is planning our HOPE conference, which was scheduled for late July, early August at St. John's University in Queens, right here in New York City.
[10:14.400 --> 10:21.500]  But that obviously is not going to happen because of the global pandemic, which has been afflicting the entire world.
[10:22.060 --> 10:38.300]  And we want to do something instead, rather than let the negativity define how we handle all of this.
[10:38.300 --> 10:40.320]  We'd like to give something back.
[10:40.600 --> 10:43.320]  We'd like to try and be creative.
[10:43.320 --> 10:50.260]  We'd like to open up what we were going to do to the entire world in a virtual environment.
[10:50.260 --> 10:56.040]  In other words, try to turn something super negative into something a little bit positive.
[10:56.200 --> 10:58.580]  So what we did was we expanded.
[10:59.080 --> 11:02.000]  Rather than simply say, no, we're not going to do it.
[11:02.080 --> 11:06.660]  We expanded the conference from three days to nine days.
[11:06.940 --> 11:12.340]  And it's going to begin on July 25th and run until August 2nd.
[11:12.840 --> 11:29.040]  Now, since it won't be safe at that time for large groups of people to gather, and anyone who tells you otherwise is not acting in your best interest, we will have a unique virtual environment.
[11:29.040 --> 11:37.980]  We're already working it out with all kinds of different providers and technicians and programmers and content providers.
[11:38.980 --> 11:55.020]  We are going to have something that has never been attempted before in this community, where we have talks going from the beginning of Saturday, the 25th of July, until the end of Sunday, August 2nd.
[11:55.540 --> 12:02.040]  Now, what people will do is they will either record their talks in advance or present them live.
[12:02.820 --> 12:10.080]  And attendees, people who are still attending the conference will be able to interact with those presenters, those speakers.
[12:11.470 --> 12:24.800]  And that is a way of creating a conference environment virtually, something that has been attempted, but it usually results in chaos.
[12:24.800 --> 12:27.960]  And it's not quite the same.
[12:28.100 --> 12:28.560]  We're trying to...
[12:28.560 --> 12:37.840]  We know it's not going to be the same, but we're trying to make it something that is unique, uplifting, and open to participation from as many people as possible.
[12:37.940 --> 12:45.860]  And that is what's really, really cool, because for the first time, for the first time, it doesn't matter if you can't get into the country.
[12:46.320 --> 12:51.680]  It doesn't matter if you can't physically be at the location that we're having the conference.
[12:51.680 --> 12:55.740]  You can now participate from wherever you happen to be in the world.
[12:56.480 --> 13:04.460]  And you don't have to worry about border guards, about getting arrested for something that was a big misunderstanding.
[13:04.460 --> 13:05.200]  Who knows?
[13:05.940 --> 13:15.960]  But you also, not just for the controversial speakers, for the people that simply can't afford to travel to the United States, or it's not convenient, now you can participate.
[13:15.960 --> 13:17.480]  You can submit a talk.
[13:18.300 --> 13:20.420]  You can speak to the entire conference.
[13:20.540 --> 13:31.640]  And the entire conference is going to be so much bigger than the confines of the rooms that we hold the conferences in, because we'll be streaming to the entire world.
[13:31.740 --> 13:32.900]  The entire world will see this.
[13:33.300 --> 13:36.020]  And it will obviously be archived as well.
[13:36.460 --> 13:38.380]  So it's a great opportunity.
[13:38.880 --> 13:44.440]  And we hope that people recognize that and participate in it, because that's the key.
[13:44.880 --> 13:54.940]  If we have many, many people submitting talks and panels and debates and keynotes and things like that, this will be a nine-day event.
[13:54.940 --> 13:57.740]  It'll be the Woodstock of hacking, without the mud.
[13:58.440 --> 14:07.620]  And we will have all kinds of other activities as well that we can add into this, such as concerts, DJs, workshops, you name it.
[14:07.700 --> 14:14.720]  The potential is just... it's completely up to what our brains can handle.
[14:15.480 --> 14:18.260]  So there are lots of ways to get involved.
[14:18.400 --> 14:26.860]  The first thing to do probably is to go to www.hope.net, Hackers on Planet Earth, and read up about what we are planning.
[14:27.180 --> 14:28.400]  You can get involved.
[14:28.620 --> 14:30.540]  You can email volunteers at hope.net.
[14:31.080 --> 14:39.540]  If you have a talk or a panel or something that you want to present, email speakers at hope.net.
[14:39.680 --> 14:46.460]  You should read the participation section so you can look at the guidelines for creating a talk.
[14:46.920 --> 14:51.220]  We only have under eight weeks, actually, before this thing begins.
[14:51.280 --> 14:51.740]  Can you believe that?
[14:51.860 --> 14:53.540]  Under eight weeks, less than two months away.
[14:53.840 --> 14:55.240]  So we have to scramble.
[14:55.440 --> 14:59.420]  We have to really get our heads together and organize this, but we can do it.
[14:59.480 --> 15:01.880]  I've seen the hacker community do this so many times.
[15:02.620 --> 15:07.680]  Overseas, constructing a camp in the middle of nowhere, and making a city in a couple of days.
[15:08.380 --> 15:09.480]  We can do this.
[15:09.720 --> 15:11.320]  We can do amazing things.
[15:11.580 --> 15:29.380]  And the fact of the matter is that this catastrophe, this global catastrophe, has hit us really hard as well, because, well, we publish a magazine, and bookstores are closed, and distributors stop paying when things close down.
[15:29.540 --> 15:35.160]  So as of now, we are about a half a year out of income.
[15:35.360 --> 15:36.980]  We've lost about a half a year's income.
[15:37.160 --> 15:43.480]  So this is our only hope for survival, for continuing with the magazine, for continuing with the conferences.
[15:44.260 --> 15:45.740]  We need to make this work.
[15:46.040 --> 15:47.080]  And I know we can.
[15:47.240 --> 15:48.280]  I know we can do it.
[15:48.280 --> 15:51.560]  And I know it's been depressing as hell for so many people.
[15:52.300 --> 15:54.900]  And I'm one of those people, believe me.
[15:55.420 --> 16:10.240]  This is hopefully one way we can get past it, or just put it aside for a little bit and create something amazing that we will never forget, that we can all share in.
[16:10.720 --> 16:11.880]  So that's what I hope.
[16:11.880 --> 16:18.260]  That's that's the new rebooted virtual hope from July 25th to August 2nd.
[16:18.820 --> 16:22.160]  Details at www.hope.net.
[16:22.820 --> 16:30.800]  Now, the folks joining us now on Skype have have played major parts in previous conferences and are working very hard on on this one.
[16:31.380 --> 16:38.300]  And I'll hand it over to you guys to contribute whatever whatever you'd like to say about this.
[16:38.780 --> 16:43.060]  Well, I, for one, am really excited about doing it this new way.
[16:43.220 --> 16:50.180]  I mean, of course, with everything going on for the past couple of months, we have been in sort of a holding pattern as we try and figure out how to proceed.
[16:50.580 --> 16:52.020]  And so has the community.
[16:52.240 --> 16:54.620]  I mean, so many people had been asking me, is it still happening?
[16:54.800 --> 16:56.200]  Is it still going on?
[16:56.560 --> 16:57.300]  What's going on?
[16:57.380 --> 16:58.200]  How are we doing this?
[16:58.360 --> 17:03.620]  And it's great to be able to put this out there as a new way we can do this.
[17:03.820 --> 17:06.820]  And I know a lot of the a lot of the community are already excited about it.
[17:07.340 --> 17:16.380]  And one thing to point out, I think, is that if you've already submitted a proposal for a talk or a workshop or things like that, we still have those and we're still going over them.
[17:16.490 --> 17:18.030]  And you're you're still already in the running.
[17:18.700 --> 17:34.960]  If you haven't submitted one yet, by all means do, because, you know, we we we are interested in putting on as big an event as we can stocking it with the the best and the brightest of everything that that you have to offer and present and do it in a new and interesting way.
[17:35.800 --> 17:37.470]  Yeah, this is aesthetics.
[17:37.640 --> 17:40.340]  Just to add on to that, because that was a really important point.
[17:40.490 --> 17:46.040]  I've talked to a lot of people who fall into the category where, for whatever reason, they weren't able to travel to New York.
[17:46.470 --> 17:53.240]  Maybe they live in a different country or maybe they're lower income and they can't afford to make the trip and the other room and board and everything.
[17:53.920 --> 17:59.840]  And now that the conference has gone online, suddenly they're I'm encouraging them to submit talks.
[18:00.080 --> 18:03.700]  And, you know, naturally, they've got all kinds of different ideas that they want to share.
[18:03.960 --> 18:08.470]  And this has really opened quite a few borders that way.
[18:08.960 --> 18:16.700]  Yeah, I really like the possibility it's bringing to what is an unfortunate situation that we're all going through.
[18:16.800 --> 18:28.240]  And the more you think about it, I think putting energy into, um, the good aspects of this, uh, is, is opening up actually possibilities that just were not there.
[18:28.560 --> 18:38.400]  Um, even though we were anticipating a lot of new changes, um, with, with, uh, a new venue, um, this mode, uh, is going to be really interesting.
[18:38.840 --> 18:49.380]  And, um, as I said, the more, the more I think about it, I'm really excited about what, what kind of cool things, um, we can make out of this and what kind of a good information we get out there.
[18:50.210 --> 18:54.400]  Literally, literally every day that we talk about this amongst ourselves.
[18:54.700 --> 18:58.320]  And there are, there are many other people that we talked to as well, uh, about the conference.
[18:58.520 --> 19:01.920]  We, we constantly are brainstorming and saying, wouldn't, wouldn't this be a good idea?
[19:02.040 --> 19:02.660]  We could try this.
[19:02.740 --> 19:06.160]  I'll just give you an example of what we came up with just in the last couple of hours.
[19:06.560 --> 19:19.280]  Uh, we were talking about, uh, people, uh, submitting greetings from all around the world to play between talks, you know, video greetings, one minute or so just to say hi from, you know, um, uh, I don't know, Tokyo or something.
[19:19.660 --> 19:24.440]  People can just, um, uh, greet the conference, say what they're doing, uh, who they are.
[19:25.000 --> 19:26.820]  And, uh, we could just collect all these things.
[19:26.940 --> 19:37.500]  We're calling them, uh, hope bumps because, uh, it's, it's like, kind of like a fist bump and also kind of like a bump in broadcasting where, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, a brief little, uh, uh, announcement or greeting or something like that.
[19:37.880 --> 19:39.560]  Uh, So we can do that.
[19:39.840 --> 19:43.540]  We can also have... you guys are in Germany.
[19:43.710 --> 19:46.880]  We can have German hackers giving talks in German.
[19:47.300 --> 19:56.000]  And we have time, if they record the talks in advance, we have time to get captioning and have them presented over here.
[19:56.000 --> 19:57.340]  We've never been able to do that before.
[19:57.340 --> 20:03.440]  So there are things that this allows us to try that we've never been able to do before.
[20:03.640 --> 20:15.080]  And that is what hacking is all about, being in a situation where you're not exactly where you expect to be, but the opportunity gives you a chance to try something different.
[20:15.240 --> 20:18.620]  A good example... maybe it's not a good example, but it's definitely an example.
[20:19.160 --> 20:23.360]  We've known a number of people who have been sentenced to prison for one reason or another.
[20:23.360 --> 20:28.840]  And when they find themselves in that very negative environment, what do they do?
[20:29.000 --> 20:30.100]  They tell us about it.
[20:30.210 --> 20:31.000]  They explain it.
[20:31.120 --> 20:32.120]  They learn from it.
[20:32.210 --> 20:33.440]  They hack the system.
[20:34.020 --> 20:44.210]  So, yeah, if you can take something as bad as that and turn it into a learning experience for other people, yeah, I think there are things we can get from this as well.
[20:44.210 --> 20:45.640]  And we can build.
[20:45.880 --> 20:49.970]  We can try new things and keep brainstorming and coming up with new ideas.
[20:51.320 --> 21:00.840]  One of the things that's really cool about this is we're really mixing things that are absolutely possible and things that were probably unthinkable even just a few months ago.
[21:01.040 --> 21:09.800]  And one of the things that's possible you just mentioned is for people to send in a little video that says what they think and some encouraging words about the conference and they're looking forward to it.
[21:12.750 --> 21:31.620]  What we would have thought was impossible was having a nine-day event with live streaming, with interaction among attendees, with well-known keynotes that are there to go back and forth live with people that have questions, all these types of things that normally happen only in person.
[21:31.620 --> 21:39.470]  And to do that with, we think over, you know, well over a thousand people in the same room at the same time.
[21:39.660 --> 21:51.400]  So it's going to be like the biggest room at the Hotel Pennsylvania where you were, with the simulcasts of the other rooms, with the people in there, except it's all going to be right there where you are in your environment.
[21:51.400 --> 21:52.560]  So it's really exciting.
[21:52.780 --> 21:58.160]  And we're, I think, I mean, I go back and forth, but I'm very confident that we can pull this off.
[21:58.400 --> 22:05.520]  And I think we're going to be able to identify all the technologies that make it just work, just like all of our other teleconferencing is happening these days.
[22:06.660 --> 22:07.060]  Yeah.
[22:07.300 --> 22:12.760]  And we've been talking about a lot of things and we don't have all the technology together yet.
[22:12.800 --> 22:17.640]  So we need some volunteers who are capable with these kinds of things.
[22:17.640 --> 22:23.160]  But one thing we've been talking about is having pretty much the hall track.
[22:23.340 --> 22:37.360]  So conferences, one of the reasons why they're so cool is not just because of all of the interesting and wonderful, good speakers and workshops and performances and films, but meeting people and interacting with people.
[22:37.600 --> 22:40.600]  And quite often that's called the hall track in conferences.
[22:41.050 --> 22:48.040]  But just hanging out with people and learning things that you had no idea you'd learn about just from interacting with someone randomly.
[22:48.320 --> 23:00.200]  So we're looking at possibilities that people are telling me, I'm not a gamer, but people who are gamers telling me that they have a computer model they can navigate around in and their avatar can get closer to other avatars.
[23:00.400 --> 23:05.220]  And if they're talking, their voice gets louder and the other ones you hear in the background really soft.
[23:05.220 --> 23:12.440]  So it's close to an environment where people can actually wander around randomly and have interesting conversations.
[23:12.900 --> 23:19.700]  So if you know something about that, definitely give us an email at volunteers at hope.net.
[23:20.060 --> 23:25.200]  Also, I'm putting together, as usual, workshops with the help of a bunch of other people.
[23:25.360 --> 23:27.340]  If you'd like to help with that, that'd be great, too.
[23:27.400 --> 23:29.900]  And if you have workshops you want to give, that'd be fantastic.
[23:29.900 --> 23:35.040]  We can do workshops, I think, quite well with the technology that we already have available.
[23:35.460 --> 23:42.460]  And we're looking at using open, free software as much as possible, ones that work.
[23:42.700 --> 23:45.820]  And Jitsi seems to be a good candidate for us.
[23:45.920 --> 23:48.160]  We've been having good experiences with it.
[23:48.260 --> 23:53.260]  And I've given workshops over Jitsi before that work really well.
[23:53.260 --> 24:01.880]  So if you have a workshop you want to give, or if you want to volunteer with that, also workshops at hope.net and volunteers at hope.net.
[24:02.060 --> 24:05.480]  And I'm excited for the possibilities of all that kind of stuff.
[24:05.680 --> 24:07.820]  And also, we want to have performances.
[24:08.220 --> 24:21.120]  If you're a musician or know musicians, there's a lot of people who are going to be giving performances live streamed as there are people providing visuals synced up with that.
[24:21.120 --> 24:27.080]  And this is something that's been done in events during the pandemic in San Francisco.
[24:27.440 --> 24:33.000]  And we'll be reproducing that kind of technology for the hope kind of experience.
[24:33.140 --> 24:34.660]  And we'll see how that goes.
[24:34.840 --> 24:38.240]  So if you're a musician or know musicians, please contact us.
[24:39.680 --> 24:42.860]  And we'll try to get you in on that too.
[24:43.220 --> 24:47.020]  You know, it's interesting, Mitch, what you're describing here.
[24:47.260 --> 24:50.080]  These are more brainstorming sessions that we've had.
[24:50.080 --> 24:51.640]  The idea of concerts.
[24:51.980 --> 24:57.800]  We've had concerts at Hope before, but it was limited to, you know, a couple of nights, a couple of hours.
[24:58.040 --> 24:59.200]  And you had to be there.
[24:59.700 --> 25:03.400]  Well, I know there are a lot of people in the hacker community who are musicians.
[25:03.780 --> 25:12.500]  This is an opportunity for them to come to a conference without having to actually go to a conference and show off your skills.
[25:12.640 --> 25:16.020]  We can have music from all around the planet.
[25:16.640 --> 25:20.460]  Someone was talking about a French, what is it, French 8-bit or something?
[25:20.760 --> 25:24.840]  No, French demo, demo scene, a group that we can get.
[25:25.080 --> 25:35.280]  Oh, we've known about a lot of the different chiptune communities and demo scene because a lot of it has to do with building your own equipment.
[25:35.280 --> 25:40.020]  And we've done a lot of presentations and concerts with that community as well.
[25:40.140 --> 25:48.260]  And we're going to reach out to some of the musicians that have performed in the past and that we've communicated with before.
[25:48.260 --> 25:54.500]  I know there are some in France and in Western Europe that would be very into it.
[25:54.600 --> 25:59.020]  And probably also in Scandinavia and northern areas as well.
[25:59.160 --> 26:00.600]  These are really popular things.
[26:00.760 --> 26:07.060]  And as Mitch said, the gaming community, there are so many different platforms that would...
[26:07.060 --> 26:21.500]  that apply when you really, you don't dwell on sort of the negative side, but see so much of the interesting and cool things that we had already had ongoing, but that also can transform with this new medium.
[26:21.880 --> 26:22.200]  Yeah.
[26:22.300 --> 26:24.660]  So Mitch was describing also workshops.
[26:24.980 --> 26:35.600]  And that's amazing, too, because as opposed to going to a talk where there are lots and lots of people in the audience, workshops are a little bit more intimate.
[26:35.600 --> 26:38.660]  So you go to a workshop and you learn something, you interact.
[26:38.880 --> 26:41.320]  So that's what we're planning on having with those.
[26:41.420 --> 26:48.920]  But the cool thing about having it in a virtual environment, you're not restricted by the number of rooms that you have.
[26:49.120 --> 26:51.920]  You can have a whole bunch of workshops going on at the same time.
[26:52.400 --> 27:01.100]  You go into a workshop and I imagine they would be limited in some way by the number of people that can go into a particular workshop, just like a real workshop.
[27:01.100 --> 27:05.820]  You don't want 1,000 people asking questions about lockpicking all at the same time.
[27:06.840 --> 27:08.580]  That's for the lockpicking talk.
[27:08.740 --> 27:13.720]  But as far as actual the workshop, you sign up for that.
[27:13.880 --> 27:17.220]  And we would have lots and lots of these things at all different times.
[27:17.220 --> 27:20.420]  And we could have a bunch of them at the same time as well.
[27:20.700 --> 27:23.260]  So that's in addition to having talks.
[27:23.440 --> 27:34.600]  But I wanted to ask Greg, though, because, Greg, you put something together really, really quickly that instructs people how easy it is to make a video of the talk that they would like to give at Hope.
[27:34.780 --> 27:35.700]  Can you tell us something about that?
[27:36.600 --> 27:38.760]  Yeah, it was remarkably easy.
[27:39.060 --> 27:41.260]  I didn't have to read up on how to do it.
[27:41.380 --> 27:42.960]  It's not the sort of thing you can do normally.
[27:43.220 --> 27:44.480]  But the whole idea was...
[27:44.480 --> 27:53.140]  Can I just say that your microphone does not sound at all like this in the video that you made, just so people don't get the sense that this is the quality that you're shooting for.
[27:53.660 --> 27:54.340]  It was...
[27:54.340 --> 27:57.920]  The video you produced in just a matter of moments was...
[27:57.920 --> 27:58.980]  It just...
[27:58.980 --> 27:59.440]  It was amazing.
[27:59.560 --> 28:00.700]  I just wanted to make that clear.
[28:01.200 --> 28:03.480]  So my microphone was not so good.
[28:03.480 --> 28:05.020]  It leaves something to be desired.
[28:05.140 --> 28:05.820]  But no, it's okay.
[28:05.960 --> 28:06.260]  It's fine.
[28:06.380 --> 28:07.140]  It's only radio.
[28:07.800 --> 28:12.680]  It sounded so good in testing that we did extensive testing before the show.
[28:13.000 --> 28:14.620]  It was the same microphone, actually.
[28:14.820 --> 28:16.580]  So the key, actually, is to...
[28:16.580 --> 28:18.040]  When you're doing a...
[28:18.040 --> 28:27.300]  When you're recording a production is to listen over and over again and make sure the quality is great and, you know, re-record your slides, adjust the slides, so forth.
[28:27.440 --> 28:39.160]  But it's really just a matter of adjusting your normal procedure from slides and then you talk to having your slides and your talk and then sort of iterating and recording.
[28:39.500 --> 28:45.120]  So I was actually very pleasantly surprised at how easy it was to get this to work.
[28:45.280 --> 28:50.960]  And then at the end, I was using PowerPoint, a laptop, you know, just regular software.
[28:51.140 --> 28:54.360]  And at the end, I saved it as a movie and uploaded the movie and shared it.
[28:54.460 --> 28:56.820]  And it was, you know, all very straightforward.
[28:56.820 --> 29:00.360]  So what we're going to do is have a lot of guidance for speakers on how to do this.
[29:00.480 --> 29:09.900]  And then, of course, for the workshops and when we have question and answer with speakers and keynotes, that will be live using some, you know, conferencing software.
[29:10.160 --> 29:13.620]  This is equipment that most people have on hand already.
[29:13.620 --> 29:14.160]  Is that correct?
[29:15.280 --> 29:16.320]  Well, that's kind of the point.
[29:16.480 --> 29:26.280]  I mean, you know, just recently, there's so many people that are doing video conferencing just all the time because, you know, we have to stay at home and the workplace is closed and that's the way school is happening and so forth.
[29:26.620 --> 29:38.100]  And if you're able to do video conferencing, if you're able to, you know, participate in a live video conference or watch a web stream, you know, watch a tutorial, then that's going to work for the Hope Conference as well.
[29:38.260 --> 29:42.000]  And that's just for the live part of it, for recording something in advance.
[29:42.000 --> 29:42.080]  Yes.
[29:42.640 --> 29:49.760]  You just need a laptop, basically, that can... I mean, if you can make a YouTube video, you can make a talk for hope.
[29:49.900 --> 29:51.600]  But it's not going to be a YouTube video.
[29:51.980 --> 29:53.720]  It's going to... Well, it'll be on YouTube, probably.
[29:53.900 --> 29:57.200]  But the quality, is what I'm trying to say, will be worlds better.
[29:58.020 --> 30:01.300]  Just that advantage by being able to pre-produce a lot of stuff.
[30:01.480 --> 30:11.380]  That's why we can have things like bumps and people giving a message about what they think needs to be said or want to say something.
[30:11.380 --> 30:15.840]  In particular, to the hacking community or filmmakers wanting to debut things.
[30:16.000 --> 30:35.960]  These are all opportunities and allow for people to do really their best work or create something totally different than maybe you would have in person because you can add different elements like this slide presentations and other visual aids.
[30:35.960 --> 30:41.940]  Can I just say, you know, I've been pretty depressed, as many of us have been over the past couple of months.
[30:42.460 --> 30:47.060]  Just talking about this is really boosting my spirits a lot.
[30:47.220 --> 30:55.460]  It just gets me energized and just thinking of something to do, something positive that we can create out of this.
[30:55.460 --> 30:59.100]  Because I hope it has the same effect on people around the world.
[30:59.200 --> 30:59.800]  That is the point.
[31:00.000 --> 31:07.600]  That has always been the point of hope, is to bring something positive to the hacker world and show how amazing that community is.
[31:08.300 --> 31:17.400]  So I really, really hope this works because it's something we've never tried before, something we've found ourselves in a position to do.
[31:18.680 --> 31:21.360]  And, you know, we are open to participation.
[31:21.360 --> 31:23.240]  We're open to so many more ideas.
[31:24.310 --> 31:26.080]  Again, volunteers at hope.net.
[31:26.080 --> 31:30.660]  If you want to volunteer, tell us what it is that you're good at, what you're interested in.
[31:31.180 --> 31:34.700]  Or if you want to submit a talk, speakers at hope.net.
[31:35.000 --> 31:38.980]  Or just go to the website and read all about it, www.hope.net.
[31:39.560 --> 31:40.000]  Yeah.
[31:40.160 --> 31:47.780]  And if you've been involved, we want the message to be clear that we're continuing, we're transforming a little bit, but it is continuing in earnest.
[31:48.420 --> 31:56.580]  And anybody who would like to participate who wouldn't ordinarily or hadn't already been planning on it is welcome to participate as well.
[31:56.800 --> 32:12.140]  And it's going to be a really new and exciting experience to really celebrate and focus on something that's going to be a positive for information and the hacking community.
[32:12.140 --> 32:14.220]  There's never been a nine-day hacker conference before.
[32:14.400 --> 32:15.460]  Not even the camps.
[32:15.680 --> 32:17.320]  The camps have never gone nine days.
[32:17.760 --> 32:31.020]  So this is going to be something, you know, and the reason we picked this is because we wanted to make something positive because we knew we couldn't do the physical events, but we wanted it to be something where people would say, oh my God, really?
[32:31.280 --> 32:32.540]  You know, that's what we want.
[32:32.640 --> 32:33.920]  We want that kind of reaction.
[32:34.120 --> 32:35.060]  You can do that?
[32:35.280 --> 32:37.860]  Well, we think so, but let's find out.
[32:38.520 --> 32:41.420]  And we're getting active right away.
[32:41.740 --> 32:45.280]  If you are a volunteer, you'll probably be hearing from us.
[32:45.380 --> 32:54.400]  We'd love to get testing and start integrating all these different things because people have so many different ideas and so much of it will work in the virtual space.
[32:55.460 --> 33:04.620]  Yeah, and two things I wanted to add to that, or well, one thing really is there's two reasons I usually hear from people who are hesitant to submit a talk or a workshop or whatever.
[33:04.620 --> 33:07.900]  The first issue is that people don't think that their idea is good enough.
[33:08.240 --> 33:13.520]  And my response to that is you should just give it a shot, submit it, and let the conference decide for you.
[33:13.680 --> 33:17.760]  And honestly, chances are it's a lot better than you think it is because we are our own worst critic.
[33:18.240 --> 33:20.980]  The second reason people don't submit is because they're too shy to.
[33:21.160 --> 33:29.560]  And I figure what's the best way to get over being shy is to give a talk in front of a bunch of friends or a workshop with people that are a part of your community.
[33:29.720 --> 33:33.020]  So just things to consider if you're hesitant about wanting to participate.
[33:34.350 --> 33:35.700]  Aesthetics, you're going to give a talk.
[33:36.820 --> 33:40.220]  You're going to give a talk because you weren't at the conference last time.
[33:40.320 --> 33:41.020]  You were in Germany.
[33:41.020 --> 33:42.780]  You're going to be in Germany this time, I would imagine.
[33:43.180 --> 33:51.940]  I'm asking you now, can you give a talk for about 40 minutes or so of pre-recorded content and then take 10 minutes of live questions from attendees?
[33:52.720 --> 33:54.840]  Is that something that you're able to do?
[33:54.840 --> 33:57.600]  See, this is what happens when you try to do something positive for others.
[33:58.060 --> 33:59.980]  I guess I have to at this point.
[34:00.140 --> 34:00.460]  No, no.
[34:00.540 --> 34:01.400]  It's not you have to.
[34:01.520 --> 34:02.540]  It's that you want to.
[34:02.720 --> 34:04.780]  It's that this is something that you want to share.
[34:05.420 --> 34:07.640]  But the thing is to come up with interesting topics.
[34:07.780 --> 34:09.300]  What kind of topics are we looking for?
[34:10.090 --> 34:11.380]  All kinds of different things.
[34:11.570 --> 34:14.500]  I mean, things on hardware and software also.
[34:14.670 --> 34:21.820]  The way I like to look at it when I'm putting together a talk or a workshop or whatever is something that you're passionate about.
[34:21.820 --> 34:26.170]  And maybe there's an event that has happened and you have a really strong response to it.
[34:26.650 --> 34:31.800]  So, for example, anybody who has read the latest issue 2600 knows I really don't like Facebook.
[34:31.980 --> 34:34.040]  So what can I do about that?
[34:34.340 --> 34:43.070]  And you ask you bring up questions like this and things like, well, there is this technology I'm passionate about and here's a cool project I want to do with it, etc.
[34:43.150 --> 34:44.360]  There's all kinds of different things.
[34:44.360 --> 34:48.340]  You know, you can't criticize Facebook on the air because we're sponsored by Facebook.
[34:49.220 --> 34:49.840]  Oh, wait.
[34:49.940 --> 34:50.620]  No, no, hold on.
[34:50.660 --> 34:51.070]  I'm sorry.
[34:51.240 --> 34:52.320]  I'm on the wrong station.
[34:52.660 --> 34:56.880]  No, this is the non-commercial radio station where we can say Facebook sucks.
[34:57.090 --> 34:58.550]  We can say Verizon sucks.
[34:59.070 --> 35:01.480]  We can say Trump sucks.
[35:01.550 --> 35:02.420]  We can say everybody.
[35:02.570 --> 35:04.860]  We can do whatever we want as far as speech.
[35:06.150 --> 35:08.720]  And that is why you should support this place.
[35:09.040 --> 35:09.480]  Please.
[35:09.780 --> 35:12.120]  516-620-3602.
[35:12.120 --> 35:20.720]  Call that number, pledge whatever you can to keep WBAI on the air because through this station, we're able to talk about things like this.
[35:20.900 --> 35:24.550]  A lot would not have happened in the hacker community without WBAI.
[35:24.700 --> 35:26.160]  A lot would not have happened.
[35:26.540 --> 35:35.480]  We'll go into this a little bit more in detail, but we need to finish off with our special guest from the past here in the next couple of minutes.
[35:36.260 --> 35:39.050]  We were talking about topics, and I've changed my microphone now.
[35:39.160 --> 35:40.260]  Hopefully it's a little better.
[35:40.260 --> 35:42.840]  But we were talking about different topics that are of interest.
[35:43.040 --> 35:48.720]  And the thing that's interesting to me is that we're here on WBAI, and WBAI is a whole culture.
[35:49.120 --> 35:51.180]  And people and cultures have different interests.
[35:51.340 --> 35:52.070]  They have different backgrounds.
[35:52.260 --> 35:53.050]  They have different strengths.
[35:53.240 --> 35:55.420]  And the hacker culture is just like that.
[35:55.570 --> 36:01.240]  So as Aesthetist was just saying, sometimes people think, oh, I'm not specialized enough.
[36:01.240 --> 36:03.240]  I'm not elite enough or something like that.
[36:03.240 --> 36:04.960]  And that's not really the way it works.
[36:05.120 --> 36:12.900]  The way it works is that everyone brings knowledge that they have, and that together we build the culture that's us.
[36:13.070 --> 36:14.440]  And this encompasses everything.
[36:14.550 --> 36:15.680]  It's not all computer-based.
[36:15.680 --> 36:20.420]  It's not all security types of topics.
[36:20.570 --> 36:21.780]  It's really across the board.
[36:21.780 --> 36:31.220]  And, for example, we'll often have talks by people that are talking about everyday things, everyday topics, but the hacker slant on those everyday topics.
[36:31.440 --> 36:40.820]  So we've heard talks on things like depression and sex and jobs and things like this, you know, workplace behaviors.
[36:40.820 --> 36:42.260]  And all of this is welcome.
[36:42.420 --> 36:48.880]  So we really ask that people bring their own selves, bring what they have to offer, and chances are it's going to be of interest.
[36:49.160 --> 36:56.160]  And as we've said, we're looking to have nine keynote speakers because the conference will be going nine days, so one for each day.
[36:56.320 --> 37:00.000]  We'd like to hear your ideas on what would be a good keynote speaker.
[37:00.000 --> 37:00.920]  Who would you like to see?
[37:01.040 --> 37:04.720]  We're going to try and ask as many people as possible to be keynote speakers.
[37:04.720 --> 37:13.540]  And we know we're going to get some really good people from all around the world because it's now possible to be a keynote speaker from anywhere in the world.
[37:13.720 --> 37:18.520]  You can write to us here at the radio station, OTH at 2600.com.
[37:18.680 --> 37:23.090]  That's off the hook, at 2600.com with any ideas that you might have there.
[37:23.440 --> 37:31.840]  But, again, speakers at hope.net if you're interested in submitting a talk or a panel or a debate or a lecture or something like that.
[37:33.040 --> 37:36.090]  And if you want to volunteer, volunteers at hope.net.
[37:36.360 --> 37:39.260]  But, again, the website, www.hope.net.
[37:39.400 --> 37:55.960]  What we really need now, more than anything, is for people to spread the word because I'm convinced when the word gets out of what we're doing, the enthusiasm will simply multiply and we'll have the enviable problem of having too much content to deal with.
[37:56.070 --> 37:57.280]  That's what I'm hoping we get.
[37:57.280 --> 38:02.000]  That we have a lot now, we want to get more, and we want people to be enthused by this.
[38:02.090 --> 38:08.880]  We want to give back in a time of total depression and anxiety.
[38:09.720 --> 38:11.020]  We want to get past this.
[38:11.120 --> 38:12.280]  We want to build for the future.
[38:12.660 --> 38:16.520]  And we're in a unique opportunity where we have a chance to do that.
[38:16.520 --> 38:30.520]  And it's important to keep the information flow that we had come to expect from our conference anyway and do right by the people that have already put so much effort into volunteering, into submitting things already.
[38:31.040 --> 38:33.300]  We want to make sure that conversation happens.
[38:33.500 --> 38:41.090]  And this is what we can see as the best way to organize this sort of chaotic moment.
[38:41.090 --> 38:48.220]  And speaking of conversations, we're going to end this phase of the conversation and move into the live part of the conversation.
[38:48.360 --> 38:49.360]  So hopefully it'll be seamless.
[38:49.900 --> 38:57.500]  You won't even be able to tell that we're changing from recording in the past to speaking live on Wednesday evening.
[38:57.620 --> 39:07.640]  But just in case, just in case there are some bumps in the roads, just in case some of you have to leave and can't join us again on Wednesday, anybody want to say something, some final words?
[39:08.880 --> 39:11.520]  I just want to point out, we've talked a lot about volunteers.
[39:11.520 --> 39:17.550]  We've talked a lot about submitting workshops, proposals to speak, suggestions for keynotes.
[39:17.800 --> 39:19.280]  You can also just attend.
[39:19.460 --> 39:20.800]  And tickets are on sale.
[39:21.040 --> 39:23.640]  They're at the www.hope.net site.
[39:23.920 --> 39:31.940]  There is not only the ability to attend and be part of the interaction of the event, but also there's some swag that's going along with it.
[39:32.040 --> 39:37.620]  So if you think you're intrigued and might want to attend, then please do sign up at the website.
[39:38.460 --> 39:39.570]  Yeah, that's a good point, Greg.
[39:39.820 --> 39:44.900]  If you attend, you get the Hope t-shirt, which is only going to be given to attendees.
[39:45.860 --> 39:52.050]  Nobody else will ever get that t-shirt except for people that have gone to this virtual event as an attendee.
[39:52.340 --> 39:54.090]  And you'll also get a badge.
[39:54.260 --> 39:58.400]  We're designing badges right now, believe it or not, for people that don't have to show them.
[39:58.400 --> 40:02.070]  But it is something that you will be able to hold on to.
[40:02.300 --> 40:07.760]  And there will be other advantages as well, not the least of which is the fact that you'll be able to interact with every speaker.
[40:07.900 --> 40:14.420]  You'll be able to ask questions and basically be a part of the conference and have that hallway track as well.
[40:14.590 --> 40:16.360]  That's what attendees get out of all this.
[40:16.570 --> 40:27.160]  So it's also the knowledge that you're helping preserve this community, because we will not survive if we don't make this happen as well.
[40:28.420 --> 40:29.960]  So we're going to go back live.
[40:30.260 --> 40:33.200]  Thanks, everybody, for joining us for the tape portion.
[40:33.590 --> 40:35.380]  And, of course, we will be seeing you at Hope.
[40:36.520 --> 40:37.820]  And we are back live.
[40:38.020 --> 40:39.420]  I guess that is pretty seamless.
[40:39.520 --> 40:45.220]  Although we did lose all three overseas people, actually, Greg in Ontario and Aesthetics and Mitch in Berlin.
[40:45.900 --> 40:46.380]  Rob T.
[40:46.480 --> 40:48.000]  Firefly remains with us.
[40:48.660 --> 40:49.420]  Good evening.
[40:49.420 --> 40:51.380]  And we're joined by Alex as well.
[40:52.500 --> 40:53.500]  Good evening, Greg.
[40:53.760 --> 40:54.840]  And, of course, Kyle is here.
[40:55.160 --> 40:55.540]  Hi.
[40:55.680 --> 40:56.020]  In addition.
[40:56.240 --> 40:59.520]  What a lot of juggling you did to get this show on the air tonight.
[41:00.380 --> 41:01.220]  Don't even do it.
[41:01.220 --> 41:02.120]  That's a whole show.
[41:02.240 --> 41:02.920]  The making of...
[41:02.920 --> 41:05.160]  We could have a documentary on the making of this one hour.
[41:05.160 --> 41:06.590]  Let's just pretend it's not an issue.
[41:06.800 --> 41:07.570]  But, you know...
[41:07.570 --> 41:08.050]  I'm glad we're here.
[41:08.070 --> 41:11.340]  We recorded that last week, and so much has happened since then.
[41:11.480 --> 41:12.780]  We're accepting talks.
[41:12.920 --> 41:19.240]  We're working out the bandwidth, figuring out technical decisions as far as how to do this exactly.
[41:19.420 --> 41:21.520]  And just coming up with a whole bunch more ideas.
[41:21.800 --> 41:23.860]  So, it's a magical thing.
[41:24.200 --> 41:27.320]  And I really hope as many listeners as possible can become a part of that.
[41:27.480 --> 41:29.280]  We'll be sending out some mass emails.
[41:29.570 --> 41:31.540]  We'll be updating the website at hope.net.
[41:31.740 --> 41:33.880]  Hope, of course, being hackers on planet Earth.
[41:34.500 --> 41:41.480]  It's a biannual event, although I think we'll be doing it next year in the flesh to make up for not doing it in the flesh this year.
[41:41.480 --> 41:46.180]  But the unique thing about 2020, it's going to be virtual.
[41:46.420 --> 41:47.940]  It's going to be really interesting.
[41:48.240 --> 42:09.240]  And every bit of the planning that we do in the next four and eight weeks is going to make what we do in July that much better as far as staying smooth and having a really rich conversation and adding different elements that make it a lot of fun.
[42:09.240 --> 42:11.240]  And I think we're really hopeful.
[42:11.480 --> 42:17.620]  There is a lot of really just a coalescing of fantastic ideas that I'm hearing.
[42:17.840 --> 42:32.860]  So, the more submissions, the more volunteer and competent technical folks we get on board now will help us really put together an outstanding production online.
[42:32.860 --> 42:50.090]  Before we talk more about the conference, I do want to devote time to something that's very important and necessary, and that is raising funds for the radio station because it's the vessel with which we communicate and how we reach so many other people and how so many different programs that are on the air right now,
[42:50.460 --> 42:55.780]  how they're able to reach out to all kinds of audiences.
[42:56.420 --> 43:00.590]  We have three special premiums that we are offering tonight.
[43:05.780 --> 43:07.280]  I'm sorry, you're waving your hand at me.
[43:07.300 --> 43:08.300]  I figured you wanted to say something.
[43:08.740 --> 43:11.260]  No, no, I was relaying some stuff.
[43:11.260 --> 43:12.740]  Oh, you're waving your hand at the Skype people.
[43:12.840 --> 43:14.920]  This is why the video is a bad idea.
[43:15.180 --> 43:16.360]  I don't know that you're looking at them.
[43:16.400 --> 43:17.160]  I thought you were looking at me.
[43:17.660 --> 43:18.580]  Continue what you were saying.
[43:18.640 --> 43:19.040]  I'm trying.
[43:19.340 --> 43:22.060]  Forget me as hard as I may be.
[43:22.180 --> 43:24.080]  I'll just close my eye when I can't read it now.
[43:25.120 --> 43:25.480]  Yeah.
[43:25.480 --> 43:25.920]  Hold on.
[43:26.020 --> 43:27.300]  Now, let me just try and get through this.
[43:27.460 --> 43:41.900]  This is one way that we're trying to say thank you to the listeners and also WBAI by donating some of the things that we have, not the least of which is the Hacker Digest Full Set and Lifetime Subscription.
[43:41.900 --> 43:49.780]  That is how you get every single issue of 2600 Magazine, past and present, in a digital forum.
[43:49.880 --> 43:52.860]  Since we're talking about virtual conferences, let's talk about virtual issues.
[43:52.860 --> 43:59.440]  This is how you go all the way back to 1984 and read the very first words of this Hacker Magazine.
[43:59.600 --> 44:00.660]  It was a newsletter back then.
[44:01.800 --> 44:06.720]  And you'll get a volume for every single year that we have come out since then.
[44:06.740 --> 44:08.500]  And I think we're up to, what, 36 now?
[44:09.120 --> 44:09.560]  Wow.
[44:09.880 --> 44:11.600]  Yeah, volume 36 is coming out.
[44:11.740 --> 44:11.760]  Volume 36.
[44:11.880 --> 44:12.800]  That's pretty incredible.
[44:12.800 --> 44:21.080]  So, for a pledge of $150 to 516-620-3602, you will get a lifetime subscription.
[44:21.080 --> 44:32.160]  What that means is you're going to get a whole lot of emails chock full of Hacker Digests from 1984 up until 2020.
[44:32.160 --> 44:38.960]  And they're going to keep coming for as long as either you or we exist, you can't stop it.
[44:39.160 --> 44:40.080]  It's just going to keep coming.
[44:40.240 --> 44:43.560]  Every year you'll get another Digest, and it's truly incredible.
[44:43.820 --> 44:55.960]  And as somebody who works on these things and goes through the old issues, I find myself spending an awful lot of time reading the articles when I should be finishing it off and sending it out.
[44:55.960 --> 44:59.460]  But I get so absorbed in it, it's fascinating.
[44:59.460 --> 45:05.680]  Even if it's 20 years old, there are still so many things that never die out that are relevant to this day.
[45:05.800 --> 45:12.220]  So, if you want that kind of magic in your life, then I do recommend the Hacker Digest full set and lifetime subscription.
[45:12.420 --> 45:15.320]  Ask for that, 516-620-3602.
[45:15.720 --> 45:20.220]  I pledge $150, well below what it normally costs, which is also pretty amazing.
[45:20.640 --> 45:23.200]  They come in PDF format, non-DRM.
[45:23.200 --> 45:31.320]  You can make copies, you can share them, and they will come every year, and you will get 36 years' worth before the next one comes.
[45:32.360 --> 45:35.860]  You guys on Skype, any comments on this?
[45:37.880 --> 45:39.480]  I had a conference comment.
[45:39.480 --> 45:44.260]  I didn't necessarily have a pledging comment, but I think they're kind of related, actually.
[45:44.260 --> 45:59.500]  I think there's a lot to be said for creating community, for making sure that we have these opportunities to create community, and that the thing that really drew a lot of people into the idea of the hacker mindset, the hacker community, be it telephone,
[45:59.740 --> 46:11.580]  be it red boxing, be it blue boxing, be it bulletin boards, be it whatever it might be, is that idea of creating community from where you happen to be, despite however much distance there may be between you and your people.
[46:11.580 --> 46:16.240]  So I think in a very real way, Hope 2020 is really taking us back to basics.
[46:16.340 --> 46:20.760]  So I've been percolating that since the past.
[46:20.920 --> 46:39.240]  But I think also that, yeah, having the opportunity to make sure that these voices keep getting heard is incredibly important, and you can do that by calling 516-620-3602, by going to give to WBAI.org, or by texting 41444.
[46:40.140 --> 46:42.580]  And any of those paths will give you the opportunity.
[46:42.700 --> 46:45.800]  Text BAI, excuse me, WBAI to 41444.
[46:46.040 --> 46:46.920]  That's what you need to do.
[46:47.140 --> 47:00.440]  And then that will ensure that you have the opportunity to keep making sure that the voice of WBAI can be heard, the voice of Off the Hook can still be heard, and all the opportunities that we have to create community continue on.
[47:00.740 --> 47:25.760]  And what I really like about that at the $150 pledge level is the newcomers to the community that might not know what kinds of things will be talked about at a Hope conference, they could get that and be very busy in the preceding eight weeks, just catching up with all of the dialogue and discourse within the pages of 2600.
[47:25.760 --> 47:30.760]  And we went to great lengths to do a really artistic...
[47:30.760 --> 47:44.840]  It's an artistic, beautiful exercise just to have archived them the way they are, and as you said, go back and interpret the artwork, the graphics, the storytelling that's going on over those decades.
[47:44.840 --> 47:52.140]  And the other package we also are offering tonight is the three-year subscription at the $50 level.
[47:52.300 --> 47:53.860]  That's a paper subscription.
[47:54.120 --> 47:59.840]  Yeah, that's if you'd like actual physical copies of our magazine sent to you.
[48:00.000 --> 48:12.920]  And you know, that is something that is sought after these days, because what happened to our last issue, it's called the lost issue, because it's still sitting in loading zones, it's in bookstores that have been shut down.
[48:13.040 --> 48:13.820]  It's hard to come by.
[48:13.820 --> 48:19.680]  It's very hard to come by, unless you're a subscriber, in which case you already have it because you're a subscriber.
[48:19.820 --> 48:23.800]  And this is a way you can become a subscriber and never have to worry again.
[48:23.880 --> 48:26.480]  The next pandemic, your issue is still going to show up.
[48:26.600 --> 48:39.540]  And the advantage of getting the three-year subscription now is if you participate in Hope, and that experience leaves you wanting more, this will be in your mailbox the very next quarter.
[48:39.540 --> 48:48.300]  So you'll have that to keep the interest in the exploring with technology going.
[48:48.520 --> 48:54.820]  So the 2,600 three-year subscription for a pledge of $50, 516-620-3602.
[48:54.980 --> 49:03.340]  So you have two choices now, a pledge of $150 for the Hacker Digest full set and lifetime subscription, if you want a virtual collection of everything.
[49:03.340 --> 49:06.840]  Or if you want a three-year paper subscription, think about it.
[49:06.900 --> 49:07.920]  That will take you to 2023.
[49:08.560 --> 49:11.340]  Pledge $50, 516-620-3602.
[49:12.480 --> 49:15.060]  Ask for the 2,600 three-year subscription.
[49:15.180 --> 49:15.580]  What's that, Kyle?
[49:15.700 --> 49:16.400]  Do you have another package?
[49:16.400 --> 49:17.100]  Another package?
[49:17.360 --> 49:32.840]  Well, I just wanted everyone to know that at $25, you will simultaneously support the station, you'll support this program, and we'll thank you for that $25 pledge level with a Hacker tote bag.
[49:33.000 --> 49:42.060]  And this will allow you to get provisions for the nine-day hacking conference that will be taking place online.
[49:42.060 --> 49:45.660]  Yes, you're going to need to stock up and prepare.
[49:46.000 --> 49:49.280]  So you can put Mountain Dew and chips and things like that into this Hacker tote bag.
[49:49.460 --> 49:50.480]  But you know what you can do.
[49:50.520 --> 49:52.920]  You can go home, empty it, and go out again and get more.
[49:53.360 --> 49:55.320]  Yeah, you could do different trips.
[49:55.500 --> 49:56.260]  It's reusable.
[49:56.420 --> 49:57.540]  You could get strope waffles.
[49:57.960 --> 49:58.660]  Oh, wow.
[49:59.020 --> 49:59.520]  That would be nice.
[49:59.520 --> 50:00.540]  That would be so good.
[50:00.720 --> 50:04.700]  Yeah, and some energy drink of your choice.
[50:05.140 --> 50:06.160]  Really, it's up to you.
[50:06.220 --> 50:07.500]  It's up to you, whatever you put inside that thing.
[50:07.500 --> 50:09.780]  But these tote bags are incredible.
[50:09.780 --> 50:11.520]  They have 26-inch straps.
[50:11.740 --> 50:14.920]  They feature 15 1⁄2 by 15 inches.
[50:15.100 --> 50:17.300]  I mean, standard tote bag size.
[50:17.440 --> 50:18.760]  What more could you ask for?
[50:18.760 --> 50:20.200]  I didn't know that was standard tote bag size.
[50:20.200 --> 50:20.460]  No.
[50:20.520 --> 50:21.740]  Okay, I know that now.
[50:21.740 --> 50:22.040]  Wow.
[50:22.220 --> 50:23.780]  We don't skimp on the details here.
[50:23.780 --> 50:25.780]  See what you can learn just by listening to this show.
[50:25.900 --> 50:26.620]  This is serious.
[50:26.880 --> 50:32.320]  This is a community and public radio standard, and we are delivering.
[50:32.820 --> 50:35.000]  And the important thing is you're supporting the station.
[50:35.380 --> 50:38.900]  You're getting to become a voting member of the Pacifica Network.
[50:38.900 --> 50:45.340]  And your contribution will be noted for this hour's show, which is off the hook.
[50:45.560 --> 50:49.660]  So you have three choices now at 516-620-3602.
[50:49.740 --> 50:52.080]  For a $25 pledge, ask for the Hacker tote bag.
[50:52.280 --> 50:56.240]  For a $50 pledge, ask for the $2,600 three-year paper subscription.
[50:56.860 --> 51:02.120]  For a $150 pledge, this is where you get everything, everything digital, that is.
[51:02.120 --> 51:05.120]  The Hacker Digest full set and lifetime subscription.
[51:05.460 --> 51:09.420]  The number again, 516-620-3602.
[51:09.580 --> 51:11.560]  You guys in Skype land, moving everything around.
[51:11.740 --> 51:13.080]  We hear you rustling there.
[51:13.300 --> 51:15.700]  You have a couple of minutes left in this hour.
[51:18.420 --> 51:31.100]  I'd just like to chime in and say, regardless of the wonderful premiums that you're offering at incredibly discounted rates, this is really just something incredibly simple here.
[51:31.960 --> 51:38.280]  If you like WBAI, if you support this show, if you enjoy listening to this show, we need your support.
[51:38.280 --> 51:39.280]  We need it now.
[51:40.400 --> 51:48.400]  You know, Kyle mentioned something I think that was incredibly important during his pitch there, which was that you become a voting member of Pacifica.
[51:48.600 --> 51:57.060]  It was not very long ago that being a voting member of Pacifica was another incredibly important thing to keep the station alive.
[51:57.460 --> 51:59.700]  So, you know, we need your participation.
[51:59.700 --> 52:00.800]  We need your support.
[52:01.020 --> 52:04.200]  We need you to pledge whatever you can to keep the station alive.
[52:04.200 --> 52:12.580]  When so many of our favorite things are being destroyed by this virus, let's keep one of our favorite things alive.
[52:12.580 --> 52:20.960]  And we can do that really simply by calling 516-620-3602 or texting WBAI.
[52:23.560 --> 52:24.800]  Go ahead, finish.
[52:25.280 --> 52:26.560]  Texting WBAI?
[52:27.260 --> 52:28.360]  Did we lose it?
[52:29.120 --> 52:31.880]  Text WBAI at 41444.
[52:32.480 --> 52:33.180]  41444.
[52:33.660 --> 52:35.900]  Hey, we are out of time, if you can believe that.
[52:36.760 --> 52:38.160]  Wow, time goes so fast.
[52:39.640 --> 52:40.440]  We are...
[52:40.440 --> 52:43.040]  I don't know what you're pointing at, Kyle, but we're out of time.
[52:43.980 --> 52:48.380]  I'm just trying to let you know that Rob had one last thing to say.
[52:48.500 --> 52:49.300]  Okay, Rob, make it quick.
[52:49.900 --> 52:54.820]  Yeah, we're not on next week, but next week we have 2,600 meetings happening virtually.
[52:55.300 --> 52:59.320]  Go to 2600.com slash meetings to hook up with your local meeting.
[52:59.320 --> 53:05.020]  Go to myc2600.net to find out how to attend this month's virtual New York City 2600 meeting.
[53:05.200 --> 53:07.160]  There are no in-person 2600 meetings.
[53:07.440 --> 53:10.980]  Yeah, for now, we have to keep it at that just so people stay safe.
[53:11.120 --> 53:13.540]  We will be back at some point in person.
[53:15.500 --> 53:17.060]  And we're going to go out with this song.
[53:17.140 --> 53:18.040]  We tried to play it last week.
[53:18.100 --> 53:18.860]  We're going to play it again.
[53:19.140 --> 53:20.220]  There will always be hope.
[53:20.360 --> 53:21.060]  Let's hope so.
[53:21.340 --> 53:22.780]  And stay tuned to WBAI.
[53:23.120 --> 53:24.200]  Please call 6...
[53:24.200 --> 53:27.640]  I'm sorry, 516-620-3602.
[53:27.940 --> 53:29.540]  Get those hacker packages.
[53:29.540 --> 53:31.140]  We'll talk to you next time.
[53:31.480 --> 53:31.740]  Good night.
[53:32.300 --> 53:35.640]  Support Community Radio, and thanks for listening.
[53:37.780 --> 54:44.600]  When your spirit wanders on the wind Remember, I will be your wings I'm your sanctuary In your sorrow, come Shelter within me You'll need hope There is always hope When you have a dream Nothing's quite absurd As it may seem When our spirit flows And the tears may flow Look inside for the love And you'll find a hope The generosity of the human spirit Can overcome all adversity Through compassion
[54:44.600 --> 54:48.780]  and caring I mean, we can create... hope.
[54:49.440 --> 54:55.460]  And if life should ever wound you...
[54:56.160 --> 55:03.830]  I'll see your journey through...
[55:04.380 --> 55:10.610]  For whenever there is love...
[55:10.610 --> 55:12.150]  You will fall...
[55:27.140 --> 55:29.940]  As you may see...
[55:32.520 --> 55:37.220]  And the tears that flow...
[55:37.220 --> 55:41.200]  Look inside, go along...
[55:41.200 --> 55:45.280]  And we'll find...
[55:45.280 --> 55:45.940]  Home!