[00:00.000 --> 00:02.680]  ...speaking with you again next week.
[00:04.240 --> 00:13.600]  The previous program was Economic Update with Richard Wolff, heard Wednesdays after the WBAI Evening News at 6.30 p.m.
[00:13.740 --> 00:15.360]  It is now 7 p.m.
[00:15.440 --> 00:17.060]  Stay tuned for Off the Hook.
[00:17.240 --> 00:23.920]  Once again, WBAI New York 99.5 FM and WBAI.org online.
[00:24.160 --> 00:24.900]  Stay tuned.
[00:26.780 --> 00:30.420]  And you're listening to radio station WBAI New York.
[00:30.700 --> 00:32.400]  The time is just about 7 o'clock.
[00:32.660 --> 00:34.820]  Time, once again, for Off the Hook.
[01:58.500 --> 02:02.240]  And a very good evening to the right program is Off the Hook.
[02:02.480 --> 02:05.380]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you, joined tonight by Kyle.
[02:05.620 --> 02:06.420]  Yes, I'm here.
[02:06.420 --> 02:09.140]  And, you know, I've learned a little trick here on this mixing board we have.
[02:09.380 --> 02:14.660]  If we wait for the theme to completely fade out before we bring in the Skype people, we won't have that nonsense with levels.
[02:14.680 --> 02:18.600]  So we just have to fill time for another 15 seconds before we introduce the other people.
[02:18.680 --> 02:20.560]  I'm sure the listeners won't even notice that we're doing this.
[02:20.680 --> 02:25.860]  No, I mean, filling time is really just about having a natural, ordinary conversation.
[02:26.160 --> 02:26.240]  Right.
[02:26.420 --> 02:29.360]  You know, when you start a show like this, you're talking about...
[02:29.360 --> 02:31.260]  Okay, all right, we're done, we're done, we're done, we're done.
[02:31.340 --> 02:33.460]  Okay, now, introducing the Skype...
[02:33.460 --> 02:34.520]  You notice how my voice changed there.
[02:34.840 --> 02:36.380]  Introducing the Skype people now.
[02:36.680 --> 02:37.160]  Alex.
[02:38.560 --> 02:39.360]  Good evening.
[02:39.980 --> 02:40.260]  Welcome.
[02:40.980 --> 02:41.700]  I see Gila.
[02:42.500 --> 02:42.980]  Hello.
[02:43.800 --> 02:46.700]  And we have special guest Jason Scott joining us.
[02:48.120 --> 02:49.780]  Greetings from the apocalypse.
[02:49.820 --> 02:51.380]  Glad to be here with you.
[02:51.380 --> 02:56.580]  Yes, Jason, of course, is from textfiles.com and also from archive.org.
[02:56.940 --> 03:01.020]  And joins us also through Skype voice, I guess, because I don't see you.
[03:01.100 --> 03:01.920]  I only hear you.
[03:02.620 --> 03:03.760]  Yeah, I'm being careful.
[03:03.760 --> 03:04.920]  I'm getting my steps in.
[03:05.200 --> 03:08.300]  You got to keep your energy up to run from the zombies.
[03:08.780 --> 03:10.520]  So I'm working out on my...
[03:10.980 --> 03:13.460]  Every day, I'm trying to walk five to eight miles.
[03:13.600 --> 03:14.160]  No joke.
[03:14.800 --> 03:15.200]  That's...
[03:15.420 --> 03:16.820]  So you're outside now walking?
[03:16.920 --> 03:18.480]  Are you just walking around in circles in the living room?
[03:18.480 --> 03:18.820]  Or...
[03:18.820 --> 03:21.620]  I'm walking around in circles in the woods.
[03:21.780 --> 03:26.860]  So if I suddenly get cut off, that was, you know, a really late summer camp killer.
[03:27.040 --> 03:28.360]  No, I think I read about this.
[03:28.560 --> 03:31.100]  I think I read about you being spotted by somebody.
[03:32.040 --> 03:33.980]  So, yeah, you might run into some people.
[03:34.860 --> 03:35.760]  Can you see us?
[03:35.780 --> 03:36.340]  I'm just curious.
[03:36.720 --> 03:37.840]  You can't see us, right?
[03:38.840 --> 03:41.080]  For various values, if I can see you.
[03:41.220 --> 03:42.560]  I mean, as much as Skype is doing.
[03:42.740 --> 03:46.500]  I see a small, bald head of some sort.
[03:46.500 --> 03:52.160]  I see a smiling, happy face looking straight at me for various values of smiling.
[03:52.380 --> 03:53.620]  And then a blurry thing.
[03:54.320 --> 03:55.820]  Skype on phones is weird, man.
[03:56.100 --> 03:57.060]  Nobody's smiling.
[03:57.200 --> 03:58.840]  And we're wearing hats.
[03:58.980 --> 04:00.440]  So I don't think anybody could be bald.
[04:00.760 --> 04:03.660]  I'm asking only because we hold up cue cards.
[04:03.980 --> 04:08.140]  And it would be kind of silly to hold it up to a phone if you can't see us.
[04:08.260 --> 04:09.380]  I just want to know if...
[04:09.380 --> 04:11.100]  Well, at least we have the most important part.
[04:11.520 --> 04:12.900]  And we're happy to...
[04:12.900 --> 04:13.380]  There we go.
[04:13.480 --> 04:13.960]  Jason's voice.
[04:15.260 --> 04:16.280]  I've readjusted it.
[04:16.400 --> 04:17.220]  I've readjusted it.
[04:17.300 --> 04:21.100]  So now I can definitely see you two talking right now.
[04:21.200 --> 04:21.660]  There we go.
[04:21.800 --> 04:23.360]  I see my name being held up.
[04:23.660 --> 04:24.040]  Wow.
[04:24.040 --> 04:24.480]  This is...
[04:24.480 --> 04:25.040]  Okay.
[04:25.180 --> 04:25.720]  It works.
[04:26.020 --> 04:28.760]  There are people at home right now saying, oh, thank goodness.
[04:28.760 --> 04:30.100]  I'm part of a tech rehearsal.
[04:30.300 --> 04:30.500]  Yeah.
[04:30.620 --> 04:31.940]  You know, we have a system.
[04:32.200 --> 04:35.220]  And we do take lots of time to get it right.
[04:35.220 --> 04:37.140]  And that's why we do this.
[04:37.740 --> 04:42.180]  We have all kinds of things to talk about, including something that Jason certainly knows a lot about.
[04:42.200 --> 04:44.580]  Actually, Jason knows a lot about just about everything we're going to be talking about.
[04:44.800 --> 04:48.080]  Let me get into the first story because this one just kind of leapt out at me.
[04:48.500 --> 04:49.140]  Listen to this headline.
[04:50.060 --> 04:52.940]  Phasmophobia hackers are terrorizing streamers with jump scares.
[04:53.540 --> 04:57.740]  I honestly understood two words in that headline there.
[04:57.900 --> 04:58.680]  But listen to this.
[04:58.760 --> 05:07.220]  Ghost hunting game Phasmophobia has become a surprise hit since it launched in early access, especially among Twitch streamers who are getting into the spirit of Halloween.
[05:07.680 --> 05:14.460]  Unfortunately, the game appears to be plagued by hackers, with some now appearing to target the lobbies of players who are live on stream.
[05:14.740 --> 05:16.940]  They actually make the game a little scarier.
[05:17.140 --> 05:19.360]  It just isn't in the way the designers intended.
[05:19.360 --> 05:32.280]  Multiple Twitch streamers have had their private lobbies raided by hackers, who then spawn ghosts into the lobby screen to inflict jump scares on streamers, enjoying a moment of rest.
[05:32.360 --> 05:43.720]  While the game is a horror game designed to cause a scare or two, these kinds of unexpected scares are more confronting and can cause genuine distress for the players experiencing them.
[05:44.220 --> 05:46.920]  I don't understand anything I just said.
[05:46.920 --> 05:55.540]  But people are, they're being annoyed by people jumping out at them in a game where people are supposed to be jumping out at you or...
[05:55.540 --> 05:57.960]  Mike, my first question is, what is a jump scare?
[05:58.080 --> 06:02.300]  Is that just a term of art or is that specific to gaming that I'm not aware of or something?
[06:02.520 --> 06:05.240]  No, jump scare is a term used in horror.
[06:05.740 --> 06:14.220]  And what it means is that it means that it's one, like there's phrases like body horror, jump scare.
[06:14.560 --> 06:22.540]  And as you can imagine, just like all the Eskimo words for snow, there are now in horror genres, all sorts of names for how is it scary?
[06:22.740 --> 06:25.840]  Is it scary to see a guy's head coming off his body?
[06:25.980 --> 06:31.220]  Is it scary to have like a lightning for a second and you see the killer, but you don't see them?
[06:31.380 --> 06:36.820]  And jump scares are considered to be the lowest grade, cheapest form of scare.
[06:37.020 --> 06:43.420]  You just have someone standing there and suddenly the killer smashes through the window or jumps in front of the screen.
[06:43.820 --> 06:45.780]  And you go, oh my God, what is that?
[06:45.860 --> 06:47.100]  And that's the jump scare.
[06:47.260 --> 06:51.280]  It's the cheapest, but most effective if you have a low budget.
[06:51.420 --> 06:52.420]  So that's jump scares.
[06:53.100 --> 06:55.060]  Perfect for Zoom conferences.
[06:55.460 --> 06:56.440]  Perfect for streaming.
[06:56.620 --> 06:56.880]  Yeah.
[06:57.080 --> 06:58.600]  So are there jump scares on Zoom?
[06:58.720 --> 07:01.340]  I imagine there would be a lot of jump scares on Zoom conferences.
[07:02.100 --> 07:05.780]  I think that was part of the news this week too.
[07:06.480 --> 07:06.820]  Uh-huh.
[07:07.000 --> 07:09.720]  I think I know what you're referring to and I'd rather not talk about that.
[07:09.720 --> 07:11.120]  No, that's a junk scare.
[07:11.340 --> 07:25.120]  This is, yeah, this is the newsman who, uh, who was filmed doing something he shouldn't be, but you know, honestly, it kind of leads into the next story, but honestly, you know, I think genuine mistakes like that, uh, need to be treated as genuine mistakes and we don't have to get all,
[07:25.300 --> 07:40.660]  uh, um, I don't know, um, uh, judgmental about these things, but sticking to the game, speaking of, of the games, I just don't understand why they're, they're calling them phasmophobia hackers or what's the hacking here?
[07:40.880 --> 07:43.080]  You're just jumping out and saying boo or something.
[07:43.440 --> 07:47.360]  And I guess you're figuring out a way to do that where you're not supposed to be able to do that.
[07:47.520 --> 07:48.780]  Does that really make you a hacker?
[07:49.820 --> 07:59.960]  I think you very sadly watched the term hacking slowly be turned into doing something that people don't quite expect.
[08:00.460 --> 08:01.020]  Yeah.
[08:01.100 --> 08:04.100]  It seems to be what people use as a shorthand now.
[08:05.040 --> 08:07.040]  Well, then there are a lot of hackers in power.
[08:07.220 --> 08:10.380]  I'll say that because, uh, I'm seeing all kinds of surprises day after day.
[08:10.620 --> 08:21.100]  Um, I just hope nobody calls the authorities about somebody startling somebody inside a video game, uh, in, in a lobby of, I don't even understand half of this.
[08:21.240 --> 08:26.840]  And I, you know, all power to the people that want to do this kind of thing, but, um, it's not really hacking.
[08:27.340 --> 08:28.560]  It's, it's part of the game.
[08:28.740 --> 08:28.880]  Really.
[08:28.920 --> 08:33.460]  If the game has this kind of, um, a hole in it where you can do this kind of thing, it's, it's part of the game.
[08:33.480 --> 08:36.800]  It's just like somebody speaking rudely or saying something you don't want them to say.
[08:36.920 --> 08:37.840]  That's not hacking either.
[08:38.540 --> 08:43.920]  They're just finding a different way to annoy you, which we're good at too.
[08:44.080 --> 08:46.520]  But, uh, that's, that's not the entirety of it.
[08:46.640 --> 09:07.300]  There's actually, you know, with all these classes being held on zoom and conferences, uh, I know of at least a couple of cases cause they'll, you know, people will record them and put them out of like kids staging, kidnapping, or coming up with fake problem at their house situations so they can then disconnect and not have to go to the rest of the class.
[09:08.020 --> 09:12.260]  So kids are like making weird little fake, you know, starts.
[09:12.460 --> 09:16.620]  Oh no, I'm being kidnapped by and turning it off and then disappearing for the rest of the course.
[09:16.880 --> 09:22.780]  But isn't that how you get your house swatted except you've done it to yourself because they send the emergency team over to help you.
[09:23.000 --> 09:24.280]  And, uh, wow.
[09:24.720 --> 09:27.580]  Well, you know, you were making me think of the fact, man, this is it.
[09:27.660 --> 09:33.360]  This is the dream that everyone wanted in the eighties of we want to have conferences all the time.
[09:33.540 --> 09:37.200]  And wouldn't it be great if they were video and it's like, well, congratulations.
[09:37.780 --> 09:38.540]  There we are.
[09:38.900 --> 09:40.220]  How's it working out for you?
[09:40.220 --> 09:50.540]  Well, you know, I have to say, um, I'm kind of glad they're here because imagine going through this pandemic, um, 30 years ago, what would we have done?
[09:50.700 --> 09:52.120]  How would we have gotten through that?
[09:52.360 --> 09:58.680]  You know, we'd all be on the telephone, maybe racking up incredible bills and, um, we wouldn't have zoom.
[09:58.860 --> 10:02.160]  We wouldn't have ways to, uh, have kids go to school virtually.
[10:03.040 --> 10:18.160]  And, you know, I don't want to say we're lucky, but I think timing wise, we have what it takes to be able to get through this and accomplish many of the things we want to accomplish while we wait for, uh, wait for it to come to an end.
[10:18.700 --> 10:20.700]  Alex, Alex, are you smoking in the studio?
[10:21.020 --> 10:25.460]  Well, actually you're in your house, but I guess it's just weird seeing you smoking on the air.
[10:25.900 --> 10:27.000]  I'm not, I'm not smoking.
[10:27.100 --> 10:28.700]  I'm just having a little bit of pipe.
[10:28.900 --> 10:31.340]  You know, I need, I need one more affectation in my life.
[10:31.340 --> 10:34.160]  There's smoke coming out of you as you're saying that you're smoking.
[10:34.840 --> 10:36.900]  I'm not, I mean, I'm just having a little bit of pipe.
[10:37.060 --> 10:38.000]  I'm not, I'm not having a cigarette.
[10:38.000 --> 10:39.120]  What does that mean, having a little bit of pipe?
[10:39.480 --> 10:42.240]  Let's not mislead the, uh, the listeners here.
[10:42.680 --> 10:42.760]  Uh-huh.
[10:42.760 --> 10:45.140]  And thinking that, you know, I'm having some kind of cigarette.
[10:45.320 --> 10:47.480]  I'm, I'm just trying to get your... I didn't say cigarette.
[10:47.720 --> 10:48.660]  You can smoke a cigarette.
[10:48.660 --> 10:49.860]  You can smoke a cigar.
[10:50.000 --> 10:51.040]  You can smoke a pipe.
[10:51.120 --> 10:51.740]  You can smoke pot.
[10:51.780 --> 10:53.840]  You can smoke all kinds of things, but you're smoking.
[10:54.800 --> 10:55.720]  Uh, yeah.
[10:55.920 --> 10:57.660]  This is like on-air intervention, isn't it?
[10:57.840 --> 11:01.920]  However, however, you know, when you say smoking, people generally assume Assume you mean cigarette.
[11:02.080 --> 11:02.960]  I wasn't having a cigarette.
[11:03.120 --> 11:03.900]  Don't assume.
[11:04.640 --> 11:05.400]  Yeah, that's right.
[11:05.500 --> 11:06.100]  That's my other bit of advice.
[11:06.120 --> 11:08.140]  From here, it just looked like a brief taste.
[11:08.460 --> 11:08.660]  Uh-huh.
[11:08.800 --> 11:09.100]  All right.
[11:09.460 --> 11:10.740]  Did you have something to say, Alex?
[11:11.480 --> 11:11.720]  Yeah.
[11:12.940 --> 11:18.640]  Back on the subject of, you know, had this been, you know, 20, 30 years ago, I mean, I think Jason brings up, you know, an interesting point.
[11:19.060 --> 11:23.260]  I do remember back in the day, back in, you know, the mid-90s, right?
[11:23.380 --> 11:26.620]  The days when phone freaking was still a thing.
[11:27.440 --> 11:43.020]  And one of the things that we did during that time was to set up these teleconferences, to, you know, essentially trick AT&T into setting up one of these teleconferences where you'd have a whole bunch of phone freaks and hackers dial in, usually at around eight or nine o'clock at night.
[11:43.340 --> 11:44.440]  Alliance teleconferencing.
[11:44.500 --> 11:45.860]  Remember Alliance teleconferencing?
[11:45.940 --> 11:46.040]  I do.
[11:46.240 --> 11:51.560]  Who can tweet to us the phone number for Alliance teleconferencing?
[11:52.260 --> 11:53.260]  Hacker Radio Show.
[11:53.440 --> 11:54.700]  Who has that number?
[11:55.320 --> 11:56.800]  We'll see who wins.
[11:57.400 --> 11:58.960]  Maybe somebody can monitor Twitter.
[11:59.940 --> 12:01.080]  Yeah, somebody will have it.
[12:01.160 --> 12:02.140]  But, you know, you're right.
[12:02.260 --> 12:10.180]  I mean, these were things that we absolutely dreamed of back in the day, being able to communicate freely with each other at any time, day or night.
[12:10.460 --> 12:15.640]  And we had a blast doing this back in, you know, when it was just a telephone.
[12:16.340 --> 12:21.860]  But, you know, at that point, you know, just like Jason mentioned before, you know, you could take the telephone and you could walk around.
[12:21.860 --> 12:25.160]  We didn't have cell phones then, but, you know, you could wander around your house.
[12:25.340 --> 12:32.440]  You know, the thing with these Zoom meetings, these constant Zoom meetings, one after another, is that you are just chained to your desk.
[12:32.620 --> 12:35.280]  You're chained to your office, wherever the hell you are.
[12:35.460 --> 12:39.520]  And you're just constantly stuck if you've got your video on.
[12:39.980 --> 12:43.140]  So, you know, it does seem, you know, like the dream came true.
[12:43.360 --> 12:44.140]  It's a bit of a nightmare.
[12:44.860 --> 12:53.140]  But on the other hand, I mean, we went through a lot of pain way back in the 90s to try to set up these teleconferences.
[12:53.280 --> 13:01.160]  And I don't know if you remember, inevitably, there'd be some jerk who would join a conference at two or three o'clock in the morning and just hold down the touch tone.
[13:01.360 --> 13:02.380]  Yeah, it's called toning.
[13:02.760 --> 13:03.180]  The toner.
[13:03.360 --> 13:04.400]  Toning was the ultimate sin.
[13:04.400 --> 13:05.960]  Yep, it was a big sin.
[13:06.140 --> 13:11.620]  It was a major party foul, especially when you went through massive amounts of hoops to get these things set up.
[13:11.800 --> 13:15.320]  But, yeah, there were, you know, just a little bit of nostalgia there.
[13:15.760 --> 13:29.080]  It's hard to feel sympathy, though, for people that say we took all this time when actually you were just billing it to somebody else and had no intention of paying the massive amounts that these things cost in those days.
[13:29.100 --> 13:31.220]  Okay, but let's acknowledge what you're talking about.
[13:31.740 --> 13:33.040]  And skill involved.
[13:33.240 --> 13:33.500]  Yeah.
[13:34.440 --> 13:34.800]  Yeah.
[13:34.800 --> 13:35.380]  To a degree.
[13:35.520 --> 13:35.660]  Yeah.
[13:36.200 --> 13:38.720]  I have no idea what you're talking about there, Emmanuel.
[13:38.840 --> 13:38.980]  Uh-huh.
[13:39.180 --> 13:43.200]  You know, we'd always receive the teleconferences at 2600.
[13:43.460 --> 13:44.400]  People would call us.
[13:44.500 --> 13:46.280]  It would be 40 people on the phone from all over the world.
[13:46.600 --> 13:49.120]  We never actually made them, but we'd always be the recipient.
[13:49.280 --> 13:52.180]  And sometimes they'd leave these half-hour-long messages on our answering machine.
[13:53.200 --> 13:54.940]  And I think I still have recordings of those.
[13:55.080 --> 13:58.640]  So that's kind of priceless, and I'm honored to have been a part of that.
[13:59.200 --> 14:11.340]  Yeah, and you know, speaking of having recordings of these things, one of the things that was really popular back in the day, and I'm glad that we have Jason Scott on the line for this, and if you remember voicemail hacking.
[14:11.340 --> 14:18.420]  You know, voicemail box hacking was a really big thing, especially if you could get like an 800 direct dial voicemail box.
[14:18.620 --> 14:22.880]  You hack it, you know, you have your friends call, leave you messages, leave you codes, et cetera.
[14:22.880 --> 14:27.100]  But it was an entire subculture, I think, that was dedicated to voicemail hacking.
[14:27.220 --> 14:32.660]  And I'm wondering if people have any recordings of those, if some of those...
[14:32.660 --> 14:33.540]  Yeah, I put some...
[14:33.540 --> 14:34.940]  Go ahead, Jason.
[14:34.940 --> 14:37.700]  No, they're on textfiles.com.
[14:38.580 --> 14:46.100]  People have been sending them to me, including both recordings of hacker conferences and what you're talking about, where...
[14:46.100 --> 14:58.200]  And I mean, this is one of those things that's so ephemeral, I'm so glad it's been saved, is that when hackers took over a voicemail box, and they were given whatever it was, two minutes, they would do like little productions.
[14:58.480 --> 15:04.220]  Like they'd like have a tape recorder and blast a little ACDC and then go, hey, thanks for calling in the voicemail today.
[15:04.420 --> 15:05.860]  Here's the codes that I tracked down.
[15:06.040 --> 15:07.080]  Here's what's going on over here.
[15:07.160 --> 15:08.760]  Remember to call this, boom, and then whatever.
[15:09.000 --> 15:11.620]  And they would change them several times a day.
[15:12.080 --> 15:18.640]  So they were like little, tiny, two-minute podcasts back in the 80s and especially the 90s.
[15:18.740 --> 15:21.080]  And somebody sent me like a handful of them.
[15:21.240 --> 15:23.240]  And they're weird little wonders, right?
[15:23.360 --> 15:28.340]  These are like, you know, 17-year-olds setting up their own weird little hacker shows.
[15:28.780 --> 15:34.140]  Very lightly referenced in the Hackers movie, you know, when they do the video, the television show.
[15:34.260 --> 15:34.460]  Right.
[15:34.560 --> 15:35.780]  It's the same feel.
[15:35.800 --> 15:36.500]  And it's...
[15:36.500 --> 15:37.720]  I'm glad we have them.
[15:37.800 --> 15:38.920]  I'd love to have more of them.
[15:40.180 --> 15:44.700]  Every once in a while, somebody will send me a bunch of .wav files that they grabbed off of an old tape.
[15:44.980 --> 15:46.700]  And they're kids being kids.
[15:46.700 --> 15:47.380]  Let's be clear.
[15:47.380 --> 15:50.540]  It's just a bunch of kids ranting at each other.
[15:50.900 --> 15:53.220]  You can go into any Discord now and hear it.
[15:53.240 --> 15:57.180]  The statute of limitations has expired on most of the phone fraud.
[15:57.960 --> 16:04.540]  You bring back memories because I remember calling some of these voicemails and hearing messages.
[16:06.040 --> 16:11.020]  And we'd hear people saying, MCI, and let's give all these numbers and Sprint.
[16:11.100 --> 16:13.060]  And they'd be codes that would work for maybe a day.
[16:13.240 --> 16:15.900]  But that's how people would make phone calls to BBSs.
[16:17.260 --> 16:19.900]  And that's kind of how I got involved in the whole voicemail world.
[16:20.000 --> 16:21.320]  I was scanning 800 numbers.
[16:21.460 --> 16:23.040]  And I came across this one number.
[16:23.480 --> 16:23.840]  800...
[16:23.840 --> 16:24.720]  I can't believe I remember it.
[16:25.820 --> 16:26.180]  4262222.
[16:27.780 --> 16:29.000]  It belonged to IBM.
[16:29.560 --> 16:32.820]  And I heard a recording saying, please keep press your last name.
[16:33.240 --> 16:34.460]  I had never heard that before.
[16:34.640 --> 16:36.220]  And there was an IBM ADS system.
[16:36.320 --> 16:39.220]  Audio distribution system is what that stood for.
[16:39.220 --> 16:42.580]  And I just basically started entering last names.
[16:42.780 --> 16:45.180]  And eventually, I was able to guess a password, which wasn't hard.
[16:45.300 --> 16:46.580]  It was 426, IBM.
[16:47.100 --> 16:48.960]  And I had full access to an account.
[16:48.980 --> 16:50.600]  And then I started finding more accounts.
[16:50.700 --> 16:54.900]  And then I found a whole gang of hackers in that same system that was doing the same thing.
[16:55.100 --> 16:57.480]  And we kind of met and formed an alliance.
[16:57.780 --> 16:58.580]  And it was...
[16:58.580 --> 16:59.860]  Those are the good old days.
[17:00.080 --> 17:01.460]  People had lots of fun.
[17:04.370 --> 17:06.990]  Yeah, I remember those days very, very well.
[17:07.090 --> 17:09.930]  And like Jason said, it was its own little production.
[17:09.930 --> 17:16.770]  I remember there being a really popular voicemail hacker by the name of Lucifer, who had a really big following.
[17:16.770 --> 17:18.970]  I remember calling his box quite a bit.
[17:19.210 --> 17:21.870]  And they would list each other's other boxes, too.
[17:22.050 --> 17:28.810]  So, you know, Lucifer, if you got your voicemail box listed on Lucifer's box, then you'd have a bunch of people calling you, leaving codes.
[17:28.990 --> 17:31.230]  And it was, you know, it was really, really fascinating.
[17:31.230 --> 17:37.310]  But, you know, there was a very exclusive elite bunch of voicemail hackers that would exchange codes.
[17:37.310 --> 17:43.190]  And by codes, we mean calling cards, credit cards, you know, all kinds of interesting telephone numbers.
[17:43.390 --> 17:49.850]  That was another really cool thing about that scene way back in the day was it wasn't just about making free phone calls.
[17:49.950 --> 17:52.110]  It was about exploring the telephone system.
[17:52.110 --> 18:02.370]  People would hand out really interesting telephone numbers to, like, you know, military bases, naval bases, weird things, carriers that you can connect to via your computer on a modem.
[18:02.750 --> 18:09.170]  You know, it was such an interesting time to be connected with people around the world that predated the Internet.
[18:09.170 --> 18:11.450]  And it was so special and so ephemeral.
[18:11.550 --> 18:13.730]  I'm going to go check that out on text files.
[18:13.930 --> 18:15.510]  Is it text files dot org or dot com?
[18:16.830 --> 18:20.330]  It's audio dot text files dot com C O M.
[18:20.530 --> 18:24.410]  I just actually renewed it for yet another five years on top of the 10 years I had.
[18:24.790 --> 18:30.510]  I'm in this mood now where I'm like, let's just renew all of my domains for until I die.
[18:30.970 --> 18:32.030]  That'll be nice.
[18:32.150 --> 18:33.630]  I can stop thinking about domains.
[18:33.630 --> 18:36.730]  Does Network Solutions still have the 100 year renewal option?
[18:37.470 --> 18:37.950]  They do.
[18:38.270 --> 18:43.570]  Although, just so people know, I mean, it's it's real, but it's fake.
[18:43.790 --> 18:47.050]  Like, that's not you're not allowed to do that.
[18:47.170 --> 18:55.150]  So when they're selling it, what they're really selling is we're going to renew you over and over again, you know, in periods of whatever.
[18:55.150 --> 18:57.010]  But yeah, it's one of their things.
[18:57.070 --> 18:57.670]  Hundred bucks.
[18:58.030 --> 19:01.610]  I think it's three thousand two hundred and ninety nine dollars, which I'm not paying.
[19:03.150 --> 19:03.870]  But yeah.
[19:04.310 --> 19:07.350]  Oh, and one other little tidbit from that before we move on.
[19:08.510 --> 19:16.090]  Like I love these little ephemeral things and they have their little tricks and then they just disappear like they just puff away.
[19:16.090 --> 19:16.330]  Right.
[19:17.110 --> 19:22.150]  So like the one that's my favorite is again, this is like 13 to 20 year old kids.
[19:22.630 --> 19:23.610]  I have a lot.
[19:23.730 --> 19:27.490]  I have voicemails on there from my voicemail box, which I had.
[19:27.670 --> 19:31.450]  And kids would leave messages, but they would breathe backwards.
[19:32.730 --> 19:41.470]  And the idea, I think, was so that they couldn't get busted like the the FBI wouldn't be able to prove it was them.
[19:41.470 --> 19:42.970]  They'd speak a message.
[19:43.310 --> 19:44.030]  They would speak backwards.
[19:44.690 --> 19:46.150]  They would they would breathe in.
[19:46.290 --> 19:47.090]  I'm going to try it.
[19:47.230 --> 19:49.310]  And if they find me in a parking lot, you'll know why.
[19:49.390 --> 19:52.470]  But it's just my voice.
[19:53.050 --> 19:54.890]  And the whole thing is like that.
[19:55.070 --> 19:55.350]  Wow.
[19:55.490 --> 19:55.790]  It's just going.
[19:56.330 --> 19:57.130]  What is it?
[19:57.950 --> 20:05.270]  And they're just breathing in backwards to confound circa 1984 voice recognition, which doesn't exist.
[20:05.430 --> 20:08.210]  Sort of like a rudimentary scrambler or something, right?
[20:08.210 --> 20:09.070]  Yeah.
[20:09.430 --> 20:11.110]  Like an analog scrambling approach.
[20:11.310 --> 20:18.850]  So I have all these messed up voices from kids like trying to, you know, taking taking steps, taking preparation.
[20:19.130 --> 20:21.390]  I have to say, I never heard of this.
[20:21.550 --> 20:22.050]  Wow.
[20:22.130 --> 20:24.070]  That is something that is weird.
[20:24.690 --> 20:37.990]  If you dig into a lot of weird little subcultures, there'll be these things that the thing that I enjoy the most in nostalgia is kind of like digging up these little innovations that kind of pop up.
[20:37.990 --> 20:46.510]  So like just little pieces where you can really see the human element of how do I solve this problem elegantly?
[20:46.990 --> 20:50.850]  So like leaving terms or how do I meet friends this way?
[20:50.970 --> 20:55.790]  Or how do I tell people where to find me without giving away my personal information?
[20:56.030 --> 20:57.450]  Like all these little tricks.
[20:58.050 --> 21:03.990]  And that's one of my, you know, that's, that's one where I'm like, yeah, nobody, nobody remembers that at all.
[21:04.250 --> 21:04.570]  Wow.
[21:04.890 --> 21:06.950]  Let alone that it might still work, right?
[21:07.590 --> 21:10.150]  Well, I'm going to try it if I can, if I can pull it off.
[21:10.690 --> 21:21.090]  But, but Jason, on the subject of voice, voicemail, we, we had the 2600 voice BBS and we still have all the files, but nobody can read the audio.
[21:21.330 --> 21:24.050]  It's, it's something called talking technology, big mouth system.
[21:24.250 --> 21:33.510]  And literally, even the people that, that ran that system have no way for us to actually play back those old files, which is the most frustrating thing in the world.
[21:33.510 --> 21:36.310]  There's all kinds of, of history hidden there somewhere.
[21:36.770 --> 21:40.190]  And we've been, we've been at this, it ran on a Windows 3.1 machine.
[21:40.470 --> 21:41.230]  Which still boots.
[21:41.510 --> 21:42.050]  Yeah, it does.
[21:42.190 --> 21:44.430]  We have the, the machine and the drive.
[21:44.430 --> 21:45.530]  We've copied the drive.
[21:45.730 --> 21:48.790]  I've, I've solicited trying to get people to work on it.
[21:48.950 --> 21:52.970]  And I've contacted, I even contacted the guy that ran big mouth.
[21:53.890 --> 22:02.510]  And he gave me a command line program that for what I could tell did not actually turn them into readable, like wave files.
[22:02.510 --> 22:09.090]  So I have these weird file formats from his company that I have, have yet to be able to decode.
[22:10.190 --> 22:11.770]  So there's a, there's a challenge for you.
[22:12.310 --> 22:13.230]  Give me a couple.
[22:13.390 --> 22:14.110]  I'll mess around with them.
[22:14.170 --> 22:14.370]  Okay.
[22:14.510 --> 22:14.910]  Yeah, sure.
[22:15.190 --> 22:16.730]  It's, it's pretty surprising.
[22:17.110 --> 22:23.530]  Like, I mean, this is, this is far beyond the scope of today, although whatever you like having this.
[22:23.670 --> 22:23.810]  Okay.
[22:23.990 --> 22:29.570]  So I work with a lot of weird file formats and a lot of weird media and a bunch of things.
[22:29.570 --> 22:40.990]  And what's very obvious is that the future is not going to be slavishly trying to keep alive older technology that can read these things.
[22:41.410 --> 22:56.690]  What the future is really, we're just going to utilize the power of machines to just slam into way overextended imaging of these items and deriving the information from it.
[22:56.690 --> 22:58.870]  Like, and I'll give you an example.
[22:59.050 --> 23:05.910]  Like I work a lot with like Apple to disc reading and those are 140 kilobytes, you know, 140,000 characters.
[23:06.170 --> 23:14.820]  But there's a flux reader called the applesauce that reads them into a 20 megabyte file down to the magnetic flux level.
[23:15.380 --> 23:24.160]  And from that, it doesn't matter what protection scheme or what format or whatever, because you can read every single atomic bit going by.
[23:24.480 --> 23:34.720]  And I've seen it for laser discs, for tape, for what's eventually now hard drives, where they just go through the hard drive and it just says, this looks like this.
[23:34.980 --> 23:37.400]  I don't know what this is, but it looks like audio.
[23:37.400 --> 23:39.140]  And that's where we are.
[23:39.480 --> 23:41.140]  And I think that's going to be the future.
[23:41.740 --> 23:43.900]  Yeah, I think that's, and it's encouraging, right?
[23:44.280 --> 23:56.340]  Because it just says, well, nobody, you know, like when they did the protection back in 82, it's like, well, it's not like anyone's going to have a machine with 40 million times the space and 50 million times the processing power to look at this.
[23:56.500 --> 23:57.100]  We're golden.
[23:57.100 --> 24:02.240]  And you were for like 30 years, but oh, well, the robots are here.
[24:02.560 --> 24:05.560]  So, yeah, like I give me file formats.
[24:05.700 --> 24:06.040]  I love them.
[24:06.360 --> 24:08.120]  OK, well, we got a couple of those over.
[24:08.200 --> 24:18.780]  And if anybody out there has any inkling as to how to read talking technology, big mouth audio files from the 1980s, 1990s, email us, OTH at 2600 dot com.
[24:18.960 --> 24:21.460]  Hey, we have a bunch of the stories we have to get to.
[24:21.720 --> 24:23.600]  This trip down memory lane has been has been fun, though.
[24:23.600 --> 24:31.400]  But one story that we missed because we were off last week is involving the the C-SPAN anchor Steve Scully.
[24:31.660 --> 24:36.200]  And he he basically was caught up in a scandal over Twitter.
[24:36.680 --> 24:36.880]  Yes.
[24:37.020 --> 24:38.780]  Yet another one in a statement.
[24:38.780 --> 24:43.160]  He said he had falsely claimed he was not responsible for a tweet he sent on October 8th.
[24:43.240 --> 24:46.820]  That was addressed to former White House communication director Anthony Scaramucci.
[24:46.820 --> 24:57.460]  He basically just sent him what I guess he thought was a private message was turned out not to be a private message, simply asking if he should reply to Donald Trump.
[24:57.740 --> 25:08.420]  Now, what gets me about this story is that so many people basically think they can just blame everything on hackers and that'll be the end of it.
[25:08.420 --> 25:13.420]  And in this case, he learned that that is not as simple as as he thought it was.
[25:13.540 --> 25:14.700]  It was pretty obvious what happened.
[25:14.880 --> 25:15.900]  They both followed each other.
[25:16.120 --> 25:19.060]  He was sending a message that he thought was private that went public.
[25:19.060 --> 25:21.020]  And he tried to deny it and blame it on hackers.
[25:21.160 --> 25:26.040]  And it was easy to see that, no, you sent that message.
[25:26.160 --> 25:29.060]  And even even Scaramucci replied to it.
[25:30.060 --> 25:34.000]  I really would like to see... I don't want to see this guy pay for this for the rest of his life.
[25:34.000 --> 25:35.360]  He owned up to it finally.
[25:35.820 --> 25:38.940]  But I would like to see people stop doing this.
[25:39.080 --> 25:40.380]  It's not the first time.
[25:41.100 --> 25:46.920]  Anytime something unfortunate happens where you screw up, you say, oh, I was hacked.
[25:47.440 --> 25:51.180]  It's, you know, it's not an honest thing to do.
[25:51.320 --> 25:53.960]  And it defiles the reputation of good people.
[25:55.760 --> 25:57.560]  And hackers will scrutinize it, right?
[25:57.680 --> 26:03.260]  I mean, it's something they're going to probably take umbrage or at least want to investigate.
[26:03.380 --> 26:08.600]  And they're probably pretty well suited to find out if that's true or not.
[26:08.740 --> 26:17.380]  So it's the one kind of scapegoat you probably shouldn't use because people will scrutinize it and say, well, is that really the case?
[26:17.640 --> 26:17.780]  Right.
[26:17.780 --> 26:22.420]  And it just seems like he maybe should have called Anthony Scaramucci or sent him an email.
[26:22.420 --> 26:24.480]  Whatever he did wasn't that bad anyway.
[26:24.700 --> 26:24.960]  So what?
[26:25.000 --> 26:25.800]  He asked him a question.
[26:25.900 --> 26:26.700]  That's not a big deal.
[26:26.920 --> 26:30.020]  And if he had intentionally done it publicly, I think it would have been really funny.
[26:30.060 --> 26:33.780]  And I think that that was what Anthony Scaramucci thought it was initially.
[26:34.120 --> 26:45.440]  But being embarrassed and feeling as though you made a mistake, it's really had a huge consequence because the dishonesty then reflected on C-SPAN.
[26:45.540 --> 26:48.260]  And now he's in C-SPAN purgatory or something like that.
[26:48.260 --> 26:49.780]  Yeah, hopefully he comes back.
[26:50.100 --> 26:52.960]  And, you know, it's a good lesson for people to learn.
[26:54.220 --> 26:55.000]  Go ahead, Alex.
[26:55.620 --> 26:56.020]  Yeah.
[26:56.360 --> 27:07.420]  I think, you know, along similar lines, this is an excuse that has come up time and time again for people who make mistakes online and want to blame them on some kind of boogeyman third party.
[27:07.420 --> 27:11.440]  But I think the public has gotten very used to hearing these types of excuses.
[27:11.840 --> 27:16.000]  There are security researchers that are looking into this, you know, for all of these allegations.
[27:16.060 --> 27:22.320]  And I think the public now is demanding more details because they're inherently skeptical of these types of things.
[27:22.520 --> 27:31.900]  So I think it's, you know, look, it's such an overplayed excuse that I think we're going to see less and less of this in the future.
[27:31.900 --> 27:32.800]  I certainly hope so.
[27:33.800 --> 27:34.820]  Well, it would be nice.
[27:35.920 --> 27:40.100]  It also is unfair, the opportunity to even debate.
[27:40.320 --> 27:46.160]  I mean, we didn't even get to see him moderate, which I think a lot of people would have gotten something out of.
[27:47.340 --> 27:52.740]  However, the way the debates were going in general, it maybe wouldn't have been much better than the first one.
[27:52.760 --> 27:53.760]  No, I was looking forward to that.
[27:53.820 --> 27:56.700]  And we were saying people are going to know who Steve Scully is after this debate.
[27:56.840 --> 27:58.520]  And unfortunately, they do, but not for that reason.
[27:58.720 --> 28:01.240]  Yeah, it went entirely different directions.
[28:01.240 --> 28:04.020]  So there are Democratic voters in Florida.
[28:04.200 --> 28:07.600]  They've been receiving unsolicited emails reportedly from the Proud Boys.
[28:07.780 --> 28:09.500]  That must be a scary thing.
[28:10.660 --> 28:11.840]  You know who the Proud Boys are.
[28:11.860 --> 28:12.840]  I don't have to define who they are.
[28:12.980 --> 28:14.640]  But these emails are threatening.
[28:14.840 --> 28:16.600]  They're saying, vote for Trump or else.
[28:17.000 --> 28:18.200]  That's what the subject line says.
[28:18.200 --> 28:20.040]  And the email reads as follows.
[28:20.540 --> 28:22.140]  We are in possession of all your information.
[28:22.340 --> 28:23.820]  You are currently registered as a Democrat.
[28:23.920 --> 28:27.400]  And we know this because we have gained access into the entire voting infrastructure.
[28:27.680 --> 28:30.520]  You will vote for Trump on Election Day or we will come after you.
[28:30.800 --> 28:34.460]  Change your party affiliation to Republican to let us know you received our message and will comply.
[28:34.720 --> 28:36.580]  We will know which candidate you voted for.
[28:36.760 --> 28:38.240]  I would take this seriously if I were you.
[28:38.640 --> 28:39.240]  Good luck.
[28:39.240 --> 28:40.260]  First of all, what are you?
[28:40.340 --> 28:40.940]  We or I?
[28:41.080 --> 28:41.720]  Make up your mind.
[28:42.260 --> 28:42.420]  Okay.
[28:43.060 --> 28:52.480]  This is something, again, that you can dissect very easily simply by realizing anybody can get their hands on voter registration information.
[28:52.480 --> 28:54.560]  What's contained in that voter registration information?
[28:54.680 --> 28:55.080]  Your name?
[28:55.220 --> 28:56.460]  Your party affiliation?
[28:56.620 --> 28:57.220]  Your address?
[28:57.480 --> 28:59.000]  In some states, your email address?
[28:59.300 --> 29:01.360]  All of the information that is being used here.
[29:01.500 --> 29:03.800]  They do not know who you voted for.
[29:03.800 --> 29:09.400]  They will not know if you change your party affiliation until the next time the list is updated.
[29:09.540 --> 29:10.840]  That could be months, years from now.
[29:11.280 --> 29:13.180]  But this is turning into a big thing.
[29:13.260 --> 29:17.240]  And of course, we don't even know this actually came from anybody affiliated with the Proud Boys.
[29:17.520 --> 29:18.840]  Anybody can do this.
[29:19.420 --> 29:21.000]  But this is a major story.
[29:21.360 --> 29:22.380]  People are feeling intimidated.
[29:22.380 --> 29:27.100]  And that is the point of it, that people are being intimidated in various ways.
[29:30.160 --> 29:36.780]  Well, you know, and threatening acts of violence, this whole or else nonsense, that's part of the communication.
[29:37.520 --> 29:45.880]  Assuming these communications cross state lines, which they undoubtedly did, whoever's responsible for this, whoever's behind it, arguably committed a federal crime.
[29:45.880 --> 29:55.760]  Now, it would be interesting to see whether or not, you know, a particular FBI field office or the Department of Justice would launch an investigation into this type of voter intimidation.
[29:55.760 --> 30:02.940]  Because this is not only, you know, harassment and intimidation, but obviously it affects our right to to the franchise.
[30:03.300 --> 30:06.500]  You know, it's trying to disenfranchise people is trying to affect the election.
[30:06.980 --> 30:08.840]  This is election interference.
[30:09.360 --> 30:12.070]  You know, that's exactly what this is designed to be.
[30:12.240 --> 30:21.660]  And the fact that, you know, this is harassing people using public publicly available information is literally no moment here in terms of whether or not this is criminal.
[30:21.660 --> 30:30.640]  You know, this seems to me like aggravated harassment crawling across state lines using email and that crosses over into voter intimidation.
[30:30.860 --> 30:42.480]  So I would really love to see this treated as vigorously and rigorously as some other minor nonsense that we've seen treated when it comes to, you know, hacker related activity.
[30:42.480 --> 30:49.700]  Well, it's the same thing, basically, as the phone scams, where you basically get a call from someone purporting to be from the IRS.
[30:49.700 --> 30:52.480]  And they say, you have to pay us immediately or you'll be arrested.
[30:52.960 --> 30:53.800]  And you fall for it.
[30:53.860 --> 30:54.760]  That's a financial crime.
[30:54.820 --> 30:55.860]  But it's the same MO.
[30:56.000 --> 30:59.800]  It's the same basic fooling somebody into thinking you're somebody you're not.
[30:59.920 --> 31:03.920]  I guess it's a it's a distorted view of what social engineering is.
[31:03.920 --> 31:11.360]  But this is with an intention to get something, either money or to sway the vote in some way.
[31:11.360 --> 31:13.200]  And it's it's really, really evil.
[31:13.220 --> 31:17.000]  But people need to know what is possible and what is not possible.
[31:17.070 --> 31:22.840]  The IRS is not going to call you and threaten you with arrest if you don't wire the money from 7-Eleven in the next 20 minutes.
[31:22.980 --> 31:24.070]  That's not going to happen.
[31:24.070 --> 31:28.550]  And somebody is not going to email you and know how you voted.
[31:28.550 --> 31:30.300]  That is not possible either.
[31:30.400 --> 31:32.680]  But people can be persuaded that it is.
[31:32.800 --> 31:33.720]  And that's the real threat.
[31:34.240 --> 31:39.550]  Yeah, I don't know if I entirely agree with that one, Emmanuel, because I think this is worse.
[31:39.700 --> 31:48.920]  And you think about this from the perspective of somebody who may be a lone Democrat surrounded by Republicans, surrounded by Trump signs on their lawn.
[31:48.920 --> 31:59.180]  You know, let's say, you know, you're the you're the lone person in a neighborhood in rural Florida with a Biden sign on your lawn and you intend to vote for Biden.
[31:59.340 --> 32:00.440]  You've announced this to the world.
[32:00.660 --> 32:05.640]  You're proud of your affiliation with the Democrats going against the grain in your neighborhood.
[32:05.660 --> 32:07.400]  And then all of a sudden you get an email like this.
[32:07.400 --> 32:17.400]  I think it can very likely scare the hell out of somebody if they are surrounded by Trump voters and surrounded by, you know, people with guns.
[32:17.700 --> 32:22.840]  You know, and you get an email like this, you know, I would certainly, you know, begin to lock my doors.
[32:22.980 --> 32:24.760]  It might even cause me to go out and buy a gun.
[32:25.380 --> 32:26.110]  Alex, I agree with you.
[32:26.180 --> 32:26.900]  I think this is worse.
[32:27.000 --> 32:27.900]  I'm saying the M.O.
[32:27.900 --> 32:28.460]  is the same.
[32:28.610 --> 32:36.360]  It's basically fooling people into thinking something's possible that is not possible and relying on people not knowing enough about technology.
[32:36.360 --> 32:40.160]  And unlike intimidation, it's a lot less anonymous.
[32:40.380 --> 32:42.440]  There's a paper trail.
[32:42.640 --> 32:51.320]  So someone around you that legitimately is threatening you, maybe they would do that in person and feel a little bit more anonymous.
[32:51.680 --> 32:56.570]  And but they would do that over sending you an email from their actual email address.
[32:56.570 --> 33:08.460]  So this, as I'm suggesting, was also obfuscated by routing through systems and machines around the world, actually.
[33:08.780 --> 33:09.480]  Estonia, actually.
[33:09.680 --> 33:09.800]  Mm-hmm.
[33:09.920 --> 33:11.320]  Estonian IP showed up.
[33:11.480 --> 33:12.700]  But that doesn't mean anything.
[33:12.920 --> 33:13.840]  It could be a local...
[33:13.840 --> 33:13.960]  Right.
[33:14.610 --> 33:21.400]  You could route stuff either in country or it could be someone from an entirely different country doing the very same thing.
[33:21.400 --> 33:25.200]  But because it's email, there's a sense of awareness.
[33:25.200 --> 33:31.940]  And it would be very foolish for someone to threaten you over email if they're like, say, your neighbor from their actual email address.
[33:32.140 --> 33:38.260]  So it's entirely... it's a lot more obvious, I think, given that aspect of it as well.
[33:38.320 --> 33:40.940]  But there are a lot of stupid people out there trying to pull things off.
[33:40.940 --> 33:49.440]  Did you see... was it the White House press representative who handed this massive book of health care?
[33:49.980 --> 33:58.180]  I think it was health care changes that the Trump administration was responsible for to a reporter.
[33:58.590 --> 34:03.240]  And I guess they weren't counting on the reporter opening this massive book, which is completely blank on the inside.
[34:03.480 --> 34:06.900]  So, yeah, the people trying to pull things off oftentimes are very stupid.
[34:07.280 --> 34:08.640]  That story, I just saw that today.
[34:08.820 --> 34:09.960]  I don't have enough details on it.
[34:10.050 --> 34:10.480]  It's not in front of me.
[34:10.940 --> 34:11.200]  It's not surrounding.
[34:11.360 --> 34:12.680]  Yeah, I'm sure it'll be in the news.
[34:13.200 --> 34:13.570]  Gila, go ahead.
[34:14.280 --> 34:24.860]  So I think my favorite fun fact about that is that the book had a cover on it, but it was a piece of paper that was taped to the front of the book to say this is about health care.
[34:25.020 --> 34:25.980]  This book is about health care.
[34:28.120 --> 34:28.480]  And...
[34:28.480 --> 34:28.550]  Really?
[34:29.720 --> 34:30.570]  A true metaphor.
[34:31.220 --> 34:31.570]  You can see it in the...
[34:31.570 --> 34:31.740]  Yeah.
[34:33.100 --> 34:40.520]  And, I mean, this is all connected to the interview that Leslie Stahl from 60 Minutes did with Trump a couple of days ago.
[34:40.520 --> 34:41.040]  Oh, really?
[34:41.360 --> 34:41.610]  Yeah.
[34:41.610 --> 34:43.520]  And so the book was...
[34:43.520 --> 34:50.540]  She was handed the book by Press Secretary Keely McEnany, who, you know, very clearly was not expecting her to open it.
[34:51.440 --> 34:51.880]  And...
[34:51.880 --> 34:54.640]  How could you expect someone not to open a book that you hand them?
[34:54.640 --> 34:55.360]  I don't get that.
[34:56.040 --> 34:56.240]  I...
[34:57.020 --> 34:57.460]  It's...
[34:57.460 --> 34:57.820]  It's a...
[34:57.820 --> 34:58.440]  It's a prop.
[34:58.840 --> 34:59.980]  Do they ever open books?
[35:00.040 --> 35:00.460]  It's a prop.
[35:01.360 --> 35:01.800]  And...
[35:03.380 --> 35:15.300]  Yeah, I mean, this is the interview that Trump has been in a snit about and is talking about leaking the footage, releasing the footage himself before 60 Minutes airs it because he is upset with something that happened.
[35:15.300 --> 35:16.700]  Wait, how does he get to release footage?
[35:17.080 --> 35:18.160]  I've been in many interviews.
[35:18.180 --> 35:19.980]  I've never gotten the footage before they...
[35:19.980 --> 35:20.620]  They had the footage.
[35:20.620 --> 35:21.620]  I'm not saying it makes sense.
[35:21.620 --> 35:22.760]  I'm just repeating what he said.
[35:22.860 --> 35:24.000]  What was done is...
[35:24.000 --> 35:26.080]  You're not the president, Emmanuel.
[35:26.320 --> 35:26.980]  I mean, not yet.
[35:27.600 --> 35:27.920]  No.
[35:28.320 --> 35:28.880]  God help us.
[35:29.020 --> 35:29.280]  Not yet.
[35:29.580 --> 35:34.640]  From the reporting I heard, it was recordings that were done in parallel by the White House for archival purposes.
[35:35.140 --> 35:35.540]  Okay.
[35:36.080 --> 35:38.600]  Well, this is going to be a fun two weeks ahead of us.
[35:39.360 --> 35:46.300]  Yeah, so my point is that people oftentimes do stupid things when they're trying to pull off a crime of one sort or another.
[35:46.460 --> 35:48.240]  So we can always count on that.
[35:48.360 --> 35:51.760]  And these Proud Boy emails, I'm sure we'll find out more about their origin.
[35:53.120 --> 35:56.920]  Something else that we need to talk about tonight, this is the main reason Jason is here.
[35:57.020 --> 36:00.440]  In fact, Yahoo Groups shutting down for good on December 15th.
[36:00.440 --> 36:10.080]  We saw the first step in that direction when they last year announced that no new groups would be allowed or no new content.
[36:10.460 --> 36:16.040]  It was basically crippling the organization or just the news groups in general.
[36:17.040 --> 36:19.260]  Verizon actually, they own Yahoo.
[36:19.460 --> 36:20.860]  So they're responsible for this.
[36:22.100 --> 36:26.260]  So in just a couple of months, what does this mean, Jason?
[36:26.560 --> 36:27.440]  Yahoo Groups?
[36:27.540 --> 36:29.820]  If you have a Yahoo Group, you're just not going to be able to use it anymore?
[36:30.580 --> 36:31.140]  Yeah.
[36:31.400 --> 36:49.220]  So there's a grander piece of this, and I have a strong memory of also walking around telling you about this cinematic situation, which is that Verizon bought Yahoo super cheap, and they bought a couple other places super cheap.
[36:49.220 --> 37:05.700]  And for a lot of these companies, they are becoming more and more, I want to say, craven, or perhaps one could say cowardly about content and content moderation.
[37:05.700 --> 37:22.560]  And certainly right now, again, without bringing politics into it too much, you know, we're at the next step in the ladder where administration starts going after congregations of people that they can't quite control.
[37:23.560 --> 37:33.840]  So with Twitter is on the Twitter and Google are going to be on, you know, testifying and so on as they go, hey, these places where people assemble and talk.
[37:33.840 --> 37:37.440]  So there are headaches and Verizon hates headaches.
[37:37.800 --> 37:39.700]  They've always hated headaches.
[37:40.420 --> 37:44.860]  So now the headache is here's all these discussion groups.
[37:44.860 --> 37:46.800]  Some of them are adults.
[37:47.460 --> 37:49.960]  Some of them may be discussing who knows what.
[37:50.440 --> 37:52.720]  We don't want to be liable for this.
[37:52.940 --> 37:55.720]  Will 230 regulations always protect us?
[37:56.080 --> 37:59.180]  So let's maybe get out of that business.
[38:00.580 --> 38:04.040]  So the slowdown is what we're seeing this, right?
[38:04.180 --> 38:09.760]  I mean, this is the flow and ebb of when you set up spaces of communication.
[38:09.760 --> 38:12.700]  This has always been something you've brought up.
[38:12.700 --> 38:24.060]  You know, a lot of people want to visualize mailing lists and news groups and websites that have forums as being like gatherings of people.
[38:24.340 --> 38:28.800]  But rapidly, they become malls, right?
[38:29.000 --> 38:32.160]  Like, here's this great conversation space.
[38:33.500 --> 38:37.940]  And a lot of people are now so used to this, they stop thinking about that.
[38:37.940 --> 38:41.460]  Like, all of the ramifications of Discord.
[38:42.080 --> 38:51.400]  A company that I know a few people who work at, you know, generally good people, but, you know, they're overseeing millions of conversations now.
[38:51.700 --> 38:57.820]  There's no real understanding of, like, everything going on or what choices they can make.
[38:57.820 --> 39:01.540]  And if they sell out to the right company, that company is going to be like, well, this is a big headache.
[39:01.700 --> 39:03.020]  Stop doing A, B, C, D.
[39:03.020 --> 39:07.340]  And I think people don't realize, like, they keep...
[39:08.000 --> 39:18.460]  To bring it back to the Scaramucci thing, you know, people kind of forget that they're on layers built on layers built on layers.
[39:18.460 --> 39:24.320]  And they get really confused when those subterranean layers show themselves.
[39:24.620 --> 39:33.880]  Oh, you're part of a network that has rules, and those rules will come out from somewhere you've never heard of?
[39:33.880 --> 39:49.020]  So, you know, everybody thinks that all these companies are like the phone company of the 50s and 60s, where it's a super-controlled semi-monopoly that has all sorts of rules of we're not going to get involved.
[39:50.020 --> 40:01.360]  And whatever happens, happens, and it's incumbent on law enforcement, society, and government to be around either end of the conversation to be able to affect change.
[40:02.160 --> 40:04.860]  And that's just not what's going on here.
[40:05.040 --> 40:08.820]  So, Yahoo Groups is, to me, just the harbinger of a lot of this.
[40:08.940 --> 40:18.820]  And when we found out, with our team of people who do archiving, that it was going down, we archived pretty much every public group.
[40:19.680 --> 40:27.100]  So, there is, to some extent, pretty much every public group on Yahoo that we could get.
[40:27.100 --> 40:32.640]  Although, I must tell you, the infrastructure at Yahoo is failing rapidly.
[40:32.880 --> 40:35.780]  So, we had to take a lot of shots to get some of them.
[40:35.960 --> 40:37.680]  Like, the place is falling apart.
[40:38.380 --> 40:40.400]  And there's private groups.
[40:40.400 --> 40:45.920]  And you can't look at a private group unless you have permission and a password.
[40:46.540 --> 40:52.960]  So, we sent out thousands and thousands of emails to the private group saying, may we come in?
[40:53.560 --> 40:56.140]  And only a tiny percentage are doing that.
[40:56.740 --> 41:01.760]  Now, there's a greater discussion there, because somebody listening to this on the radio is knocking it over.
[41:02.100 --> 41:06.080]  There's a greater discussion of, like, what do these public spaces...
[41:06.920 --> 41:09.640]  What do they consist of versus private spaces?
[41:09.640 --> 41:13.600]  And we are super wrestling with that as a society.
[41:14.000 --> 41:18.960]  Like, we're all talking right now on Skype to be able to talk on the radio.
[41:19.560 --> 41:24.480]  Like, we don't really understand fully the ramifications of Skype.
[41:24.740 --> 41:31.640]  Like, here's this communication network that doesn't have any telecommunications act overseeing it.
[41:31.640 --> 41:34.800]  We don't really know what the corporate folks are doing with it.
[41:34.800 --> 41:38.240]  We don't really know how it's routing us or what...
[41:38.800 --> 41:42.800]  But we accept it, because we're like, huh, it's free.
[41:43.640 --> 41:45.960]  And we boot it up and it works on our phone.
[41:46.040 --> 41:47.180]  And we go, we're done here.
[41:48.440 --> 41:51.680]  And, you know, I never...
[41:53.660 --> 42:03.280]  I've seen cases where companies buy things and they just quietly go in and start killing off one segment, because it's kind of like, well, that's reballed.
[42:04.060 --> 42:05.040]  Like, no adult groups.
[42:05.640 --> 42:08.080]  So, nothing with adult groups.
[42:08.320 --> 42:10.440]  Or, what is it?
[42:10.600 --> 42:17.520]  YouTube has made it that if a video is aimed for children and identifies itself as that, it can't have comments.
[42:18.380 --> 42:26.600]  And so they just obliterated millions of comments that people have made over the years, because they made a corporate decision based on a reading of a law.
[42:26.600 --> 42:28.200]  And I think we're not gonna...
[42:28.200 --> 42:43.480]  You know, as much as it pains me, I try to really impress upon people, there's some segment of what you do that is creative and represents your spirit and represents knowledge and learning, and you really gotta make copies of it.
[42:43.740 --> 42:44.260]  Mm-hmm.
[42:44.260 --> 42:55.140]  Even if it's screen saving, even if it's printing, even if it's, you know, right click, drop it into a folder called, I'm never gonna look at this again.
[42:56.020 --> 43:02.300]  Just having that is gonna be your best protection against waking up with a surprise.
[43:03.000 --> 43:09.020]  I've spent too much of my life in the last 10 years talking with people who are just like, you mean everything's gone?
[43:09.140 --> 43:10.780]  And I'm like, yeah, everything's gone.
[43:11.220 --> 43:14.820]  Yeah, the thing to remember is that you're playing on their turf.
[43:14.980 --> 43:15.780]  They control it.
[43:15.880 --> 43:17.380]  They can turn it off at any time.
[43:17.560 --> 43:23.900]  And all these people now going from Yahoo groups to Google groups, hey, Google can do the same thing and you'll be in the same boat.
[43:23.900 --> 43:27.280]  But, Jason, I wanna ask you, does it make sense?
[43:27.580 --> 43:27.980]  Sure.
[43:27.980 --> 43:36.400]  Could Yahoo or Verizon simply hand this over to another entity that's not related to them and say, go ahead, good luck with it?
[43:36.900 --> 43:37.960]  Is that even possible?
[43:38.700 --> 43:39.040]  My opinion...
[43:39.040 --> 43:41.680]  Alex somewhere just dropped his coffee.
[43:41.900 --> 43:42.420]  I...
[43:42.420 --> 43:43.540]  Sorry, his pipe.
[43:43.820 --> 43:47.180]  The liability is too much for these companies.
[43:47.180 --> 43:47.660]  They...
[43:47.660 --> 43:49.040]  I would love to see that.
[43:50.260 --> 43:50.820]  Um...
[43:50.820 --> 43:53.160]  But I don't think that's what's going on.
[43:53.640 --> 43:54.080]  Um...
[43:54.080 --> 43:55.240]  If somebody...
[43:55.240 --> 43:58.380]  Here I am in late stage, age 50, Jason.
[43:58.800 --> 44:03.820]  When people say to me, well, Mr. Smarty Pants, what's your better solution?
[44:05.020 --> 44:06.300]  I'm like...
[44:07.060 --> 44:08.900]  This will get me up in front of the hearings.
[44:09.620 --> 44:15.380]  I don't think any company that deals in user-generated content should not be a nonprofit.
[44:16.260 --> 44:25.460]  That is run by a board that has transparent, open meetings about issues and concerns and what do we do.
[44:25.840 --> 44:43.360]  And if those nonprofits say the following areas of things are not allowed on our service, it is clear there is a record, a real record of a meeting with real people getting up and crying and saying, please don't get rid of us and other ones crying and saying,
[44:43.560 --> 44:44.060]  get rid of them.
[44:44.320 --> 44:45.120]  And we...
[44:45.120 --> 44:53.020]  We live in a society of transparency and accuracy and not finding out, oh, this is how they were paying for it.
[44:54.040 --> 45:02.940]  And anything else at this point is just basically a fun house of confusion and surprise.
[45:04.140 --> 45:08.960]  You know, like, Quibi just shut down... is going to shut down today, okay?
[45:09.840 --> 45:11.080]  And it's a 1.7...
[45:11.080 --> 45:11.180]  Didn't see that coming.
[45:11.820 --> 45:12.300]  Yeah.
[45:12.560 --> 45:21.300]  It's 1.75 billion dollars of VC money to create a bunch of little shows that were kind of interesting and used Hollywood stars, and it's gone away.
[45:21.880 --> 45:22.600]  Oh, well.
[45:23.740 --> 45:25.160]  Like, that's a shame.
[45:26.020 --> 45:26.960]  But this isn't...
[45:27.500 --> 45:34.360]  Like, that's just a company with a guy who was able to get a bunch of money and a lady who was able to raise a bunch of different money.
[45:34.940 --> 45:35.880]  And together they ran it.
[45:36.080 --> 45:36.880]  They put it out there.
[45:37.100 --> 45:37.760]  It didn't sell.
[45:38.120 --> 45:40.820]  Now those movies are not going to be shown on that service.
[45:40.980 --> 45:41.960]  They might be shown elsewhere.
[45:42.980 --> 45:43.860]  We didn't...
[45:43.860 --> 45:49.660]  Nobody woke up finding out that their home movies or their work was gone.
[45:49.920 --> 45:50.020]  Right.
[45:50.140 --> 45:51.480]  So great, corporate America.
[45:51.800 --> 45:52.580]  Do that every day.
[45:52.580 --> 46:10.000]  But things like our communication, our chat, our learning, when we hand it over to corporate interests, and we hand it over to shadow funding, you know, ads, selling the privacy, this is what we get.
[46:10.160 --> 46:13.640]  We get these faddish dives into locations.
[46:13.920 --> 46:18.200]  Google says, hey, I think it'd be fun to be in the streaming game space.
[46:18.900 --> 46:25.260]  I created a website on the day that Stadia was announced called stadiacountdown.com.
[46:25.320 --> 46:30.900]  And if you go there, it shows you, on average, how long Stadia has to live.
[46:31.140 --> 46:31.640]  Wow.
[46:31.780 --> 46:39.300]  And it's just counting down every day because the average service on Google lives four years, and then it goes away.
[46:39.300 --> 46:50.000]  So that's what, you know, and if they suck out all the oxygen for two or three years, they can kill a burgeoning industry, whatever that is.
[46:50.320 --> 46:50.460]  Right.
[46:50.680 --> 46:54.440]  We're about to see a little bit with podcasts, by the way.
[46:55.500 --> 46:56.840]  Podcasts are starting to get that.
[46:57.100 --> 46:58.800]  A little bit of corporate interest.
[46:58.800 --> 47:10.160]  The sale of Joe Rogan for millions of dollars, like these weird deals that feel like bizarre baseball and Hollywood deals.
[47:10.460 --> 47:21.920]  And they're going to try to find the best of the podcasts, turn them into corporate controlled, you know, quasi NPR sounding things.
[47:22.400 --> 47:25.660]  And then one day someone will say, that's a dumb investment.
[47:26.540 --> 47:28.880]  And all of those people will be set loose.
[47:29.060 --> 47:29.440]  Yeah.
[47:29.540 --> 47:32.580]  It's weird how we've been doing podcasts longer than any of them.
[47:32.680 --> 47:37.300]  And we've never had to worry about any of that because we do it by our own rules and we control our content.
[47:37.580 --> 47:43.980]  And we're in a great place like BAI, which by the way, give to WBAI.org, become a BAI buddy and support us.
[47:44.120 --> 47:45.100]  Keep this place going.
[47:45.660 --> 47:45.980]  Yeah.
[47:47.020 --> 47:50.320]  That community extends to community radio.
[47:50.320 --> 47:53.160]  I just wanted to thank you for your insight on this.
[47:53.320 --> 47:54.640]  And I've been going through this.
[47:54.800 --> 48:12.300]  Actually, this very story and the discussion from off the hook applies to a neighborhood group case, you know, typical type of Yahoo group that I'm involved with that had absolutely no idea that in two and a half months, their mailing list won't work.
[48:12.300 --> 48:20.780]  And it became this entirely new discussion and thread just by me mentioning it and sharing some of the news about it.
[48:20.980 --> 48:26.860]  And, uh, the, the very, um, the very first suggestion was Google groups.
[48:27.160 --> 48:30.920]  And, um, we've now slowly worked away from that.
[48:30.920 --> 48:35.720]  I insisted not, please, please, please not Facebook.
[48:36.120 --> 48:36.560]  Yeah.
[48:36.560 --> 48:37.140]  But what's left?
[48:37.280 --> 48:38.360]  And then it went to Google groups.
[48:38.720 --> 48:42.660]  We're now looking at two alternatives and I'd really like any listeners.
[48:43.040 --> 48:44.640]  And perhaps Jason, you have some comments.
[48:44.840 --> 48:50.420]  Um, if there are other kinds of very easy to use group and mailing lists, please send us suggestions.
[48:50.420 --> 48:59.220]  But right now this neighborhood group I'm involved with is looking at free lists and groups.io as alternatives.
[48:59.540 --> 49:13.960]  I don't know anything about them, but it's been good that the discussion has moved towards these platforms, but they could, as Jason said, be right there in the same boat, depending on how they're structured and how the content's owned and managed.
[49:14.060 --> 49:15.460]  Jason, we only have two minutes left.
[49:15.460 --> 49:21.560]  Can you, can you give us some, uh, advice maybe on, uh, if somebody is involved in a Yahoo group, but what they can do at this point?
[49:21.960 --> 49:23.400]  Yeah, sure.
[49:23.780 --> 49:24.720]  Um, all right.
[49:24.800 --> 49:39.100]  Well, so, so first of all, um, if you're in a private group or if you're in part of a group, uh, that, that other people aren't supposed to have access to find out if the information was ever thought of as transient or historical.
[49:39.360 --> 49:51.120]  Some, some of them are just like announcements or, Hey, we were doing this, but some of them are like, we're building towards understanding how to be good homeschoolers, or we're building up to like talk about our local government.
[49:51.540 --> 49:57.100]  If you did that, my attitude, frankly, is just print them all out.
[49:57.340 --> 49:59.000]  That's the easiest thing to do.
[49:59.160 --> 50:08.780]  Just keep hitting the print button and make a little book and, and put it in a little binder and write the name of the group because that can be turned back digital.
[50:08.780 --> 50:22.280]  Um, that can be searched again and that can be done by anybody, anybody who's at home in your group who either doesn't have a job or has a job with a printer and they can just print out some record.
[50:22.440 --> 50:24.240]  And like, that's the easiest thing.
[50:24.580 --> 50:25.920]  It's so circular though.
[50:26.040 --> 50:29.320]  It's like we're going back to the, to the way it used to be when things were printed.
[50:29.460 --> 50:38.000]  Somebody suggested to us, Hey, you know, you should print out your, your Kindle, uh, uh, magazine that comes from a printed magazine and people are figuring out.
[50:38.380 --> 50:39.340]  I mean, yeah, it's, it's crazy.
[50:39.580 --> 50:49.180]  Well, we used to walk and then we drove in cars, but if your car, which you are letting somebody else pay for runs out of gas because they don't support it, it's time to go walking again.
[50:49.620 --> 50:50.820]  That's just the way it is.
[50:51.020 --> 50:54.000]  So that's my, that's my short, short answer.
[50:54.220 --> 50:55.400]  Jason, one, one more question.
[50:55.520 --> 51:02.240]  I just want to know, is it still possible with Yahoo groups to exfiltrate stuff, um, from a group that has existed?
[51:02.500 --> 51:06.120]  If you do have access, um, say it's a mailing list.
[51:06.340 --> 51:11.600]  Is there an archive on Yahoo groups or is it just say it's a private mailing list or a invite?
[51:12.660 --> 51:17.020]  Yeah, there might be some, there might be something with like Google groups or others.
[51:17.020 --> 51:18.540]  I don't know off hands.
[51:18.660 --> 51:31.200]  I mean, groups, I mean, let's put it this way and this is not much of an advice, but I would go with groups that I owe over Google groups just because at least that's their job, whether, I mean, but don't trust them.
[51:31.780 --> 51:33.460]  Like, don't trust any of these folks.
[51:33.660 --> 51:41.620]  Like, be like, I'm going to work with you, but don't trust them in the same way you don't lend your plumber, you know, your wallet for your weekend.
[51:41.840 --> 51:46.480]  Like, you know, if you're not paying a company, you're the product.
[51:46.660 --> 51:48.440]  We're going to have to end on that note, Jason.
[51:48.700 --> 51:53.760]  Quickly, do you have any contact info you'd like to give out for people to pursue what you're doing?
[51:54.680 --> 51:59.940]  Text Files is my Twitter handle, Jason at textfiles.com.
[52:00.540 --> 52:01.600]  Write me about anything.
[52:01.600 --> 52:03.120]  I love hearing from you.
[52:03.900 --> 52:04.160]  Okay.
[52:04.500 --> 52:08.780]  Jason Scott, thank you so much for your insight and for joining us tonight on Off The Hook.
[52:09.180 --> 52:13.840]  And again, Yahoo Groups will be leaving this realm December 15th.
[52:13.960 --> 52:17.420]  There's still some time, but definitely grab as much as you can.
[52:17.420 --> 52:25.920]  Print it out, share it, and we'll continue to follow the story and have ideas, advice on what you can do.
[52:26.720 --> 52:27.240]  Okay.
[52:27.380 --> 52:28.780]  We are out of time.
[52:29.580 --> 52:33.180]  I want to remind people, Election Day is two weeks from yesterday.
[52:34.440 --> 52:44.280]  I'm not going to tell you who to vote for, but I will encourage you to vote for science, and for justice, and for sanity.
[52:45.220 --> 52:51.140]  You have the ability to help steer this nation and your community in a better direction.
[52:52.000 --> 52:55.920]  And we all have to work together to make that happen before the election and after.
[52:56.140 --> 52:57.960]  It's never been more important.
[52:58.180 --> 53:04.660]  Go to vote.org to check your status, register, and find out where and how to vote.
[53:04.660 --> 53:09.400]  And, of course, write to us at OTH at 2600.com.
[53:10.340 --> 53:11.300]  We'll see you next week.
[53:16.440 --> 53:17.080]  OTH at 2600.com.
[53:17.080 --> 53:18.860]  Now the corporation stopped.
[53:18.920 --> 53:20.460]  Stop pushing for spoo.
[53:20.560 --> 53:22.440]  In a multiple shooting.
[53:22.760 --> 53:24.100]  Downtown at the bank.
[53:24.660 --> 53:26.100]  Reluctantly to panic.
[53:26.680 --> 53:27.960]  Big is the catch ball.
[53:27.980 --> 53:29.520]  But it did not affect.
[53:29.780 --> 53:31.260]  The steady side of jump.
[53:31.380 --> 53:33.300]  Oh, the state office looked.
[53:33.380 --> 53:34.760]  It looked like Hollywood.
[53:35.360 --> 53:36.840]  With makeup bleeding.
[53:37.120 --> 53:38.560]  Over the cracks.
[53:38.880 --> 53:40.600]  Whoa, he blew his line.
[53:40.860 --> 53:42.380]  Facing the camera.
[53:42.380 --> 53:44.400]  He suffered the first.
[53:45.900 --> 53:47.700]  All-life heart attack.
[53:49.460 --> 53:50.160]  Oh!
[53:50.940 --> 53:51.720]  Full time.
[53:52.100 --> 53:54.040]  Even back to time.
[53:59.930 --> 54:02.150]  The murder of Cyanide.
[54:02.350 --> 54:04.050]  Cyanide to his side.
[54:04.290 --> 54:05.650]  He finally found.
[54:05.910 --> 54:07.530]  The brick wall in his hand.
[54:07.750 --> 54:09.610]  Shining off his engine.
[54:10.130 --> 54:11.430]  He trashed right up for it.
[54:11.550 --> 54:13.330]  At the top of the speedo.
[54:13.430 --> 54:14.670]  The trunk of the bike.
[54:14.670 --> 54:16.850]  There's plenty of people running.
[54:17.090 --> 54:18.230]  Running for cover.
[54:18.830 --> 54:20.370]  Hoping at best.
[54:20.930 --> 54:22.050]  Oh, no, no, no, no.
[54:22.170 --> 54:23.970]  One last time.
[54:24.270 --> 54:25.610]  And a buck of fire.
[54:25.870 --> 54:27.370]  Machine gun.
[54:28.830 --> 54:31.070]  A pitchfork at best.
[54:32.910 --> 54:33.370]  Oh!
[54:34.130 --> 54:34.930]  Full time.
[54:35.270 --> 54:37.410]  Even at some time.
[54:43.110 --> 54:45.530]  But it isn't so easy.
[54:45.530 --> 54:46.290]  So easy.
[54:46.750 --> 54:47.190]  All alone.
[54:47.610 --> 54:48.870]  Came and lost.
[54:49.130 --> 54:50.610]  And the top of the tower.
[54:51.010 --> 54:52.710]  The big pulse is leaving.
[54:53.090 --> 54:54.570]  And you lost me.
[54:54.790 --> 54:56.410]  Driving your heart.
[54:56.710 --> 54:58.190]  Away with the power.
[54:58.510 --> 54:59.030]  Oh!
[54:59.030 --> 55:00.010]  When I'm leaving.
[55:00.270 --> 55:03.540]  I'm waiting for the face.
[55:03.780 --> 55:05.260]  Who is in the unfree.
[55:05.420 --> 55:07.280]  I'm not the only one.
[55:07.300 --> 55:07.800]  I'm not the only one.
[55:07.800 --> 55:08.900]  I'm not the only one.
[55:09.080 --> 55:11.080]  I'm watching the stars.
[55:12.760 --> 55:14.440]  For mankind's friends.
[55:16.600 --> 55:16.940]  Oh!
[55:17.580 --> 55:17.940]  Oh!
[55:19.100 --> 55:19.760]  Oh!
[55:20.000 --> 55:20.040]  Oh!