[00:30.180 --> 00:33.420]  And I believe you're listening to WBAI New York.
[00:33.820 --> 00:36.120]  And it's shortly after 7 p.m.
[00:37.040 --> 00:40.560]  Time for Off the Hook.
[00:42.560 --> 00:47.120]  The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[00:48.000 --> 00:52.660]  I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
[00:53.480 --> 00:55.400]  We're going to be at much worse.
[00:56.160 --> 00:57.940]  But if they could, they would.
[00:58.220 --> 01:00.840]  Monday, we're bound for the best to stay from us.
[01:01.600 --> 01:03.400]  I hope the sun is good.
[01:03.560 --> 01:04.400]  Monday, we're bound.
[01:33.350 --> 01:34.370]  Okay, we're back.
[01:34.610 --> 01:35.230]  Sorry about that.
[01:35.250 --> 01:39.570]  That was a little bit of a hand-off issue that we have in these trying times.
[01:40.350 --> 01:41.370]  It's Off the Hook.
[01:41.510 --> 01:44.670]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you, joined tonight by Kyle.
[01:45.510 --> 01:46.270]  Yeah, I'm here.
[01:46.950 --> 01:48.030]  We have Rob T.
[01:48.190 --> 01:48.630]  Firefly.
[01:49.710 --> 01:50.530]  Oh, hold on a second.
[01:50.650 --> 01:51.510]  No, we don't have Rob T.
[01:51.610 --> 01:53.070]  Firefly because I didn't hit the right button again.
[01:53.950 --> 01:54.890]  Now we have Rob T.
[01:54.990 --> 01:55.330]  Firefly.
[01:56.150 --> 01:57.430]  That felt like the right button.
[01:57.510 --> 01:57.790]  Good evening.
[01:57.930 --> 01:58.470]  Sorry about that.
[01:58.510 --> 01:59.030]  And we have Gila.
[01:59.790 --> 02:00.150]  Hello.
[02:01.010 --> 02:02.430]  We have Alex.
[02:03.410 --> 02:04.870]  Good evening from Manhattan.
[02:05.410 --> 02:07.210]  From a very echoey room in Manhattan.
[02:08.210 --> 02:10.830]  And I believe we also have with us Jason Scott.
[02:12.610 --> 02:13.710]  Yes, how do I sound?
[02:13.930 --> 02:16.390]  You sound even more echoey than Alex, but that's fine.
[02:16.390 --> 02:18.150]  It's been an echoey year.
[02:19.430 --> 02:21.590]  It's been a funny year.
[02:21.690 --> 02:23.150]  Let's just leave it at that.
[02:23.330 --> 02:27.370]  Between coups and COVID, which do you prefer?
[02:27.850 --> 02:29.450]  Which do you want to start with?
[02:30.110 --> 02:35.350]  Well, Jason, I suppose we should just start with you right away because this is serious news.
[02:35.350 --> 02:36.730]  Yeah, well, it is.
[02:36.830 --> 02:41.770]  You know, I know that you're getting through this just fine, but you did test positive for COVID.
[02:41.970 --> 02:42.110]  Yes, I am.
[02:42.450 --> 02:45.350]  And people need to take this seriously.
[02:45.990 --> 02:47.310]  Some late-breaking news.
[02:47.470 --> 02:50.310]  Schools are closed in New York City tomorrow.
[02:50.590 --> 02:51.490]  Alex, I don't know if you know that.
[02:51.510 --> 02:52.150]  You've got kids.
[02:52.870 --> 02:53.950]  Did anybody tell you?
[02:54.570 --> 03:01.930]  I am aware we're all, you know, not surprised at all about this, but having to deal with it.
[03:02.150 --> 03:03.890]  Yeah, so don't send them off to school tomorrow.
[03:04.550 --> 03:07.130]  This is what we have been expecting.
[03:07.150 --> 03:10.210]  So if you're surprised, you're not paying attention.
[03:11.110 --> 03:16.450]  3% was the magic number, and we hit that number, so that means schools are closed.
[03:16.650 --> 03:19.070]  I don't know why restaurants are open.
[03:19.070 --> 03:20.950]  I don't know why gyms are open.
[03:21.110 --> 03:22.450]  It doesn't make any sense to me.
[03:22.450 --> 03:23.830]  Alex, do you have an answer for that?
[03:24.390 --> 03:25.210]  No, I don't.
[03:25.330 --> 03:29.950]  But also, it doesn't make any sense to close schools across the entire city.
[03:30.110 --> 03:31.610]  This is a city of over 8 million people.
[03:31.770 --> 03:36.690]  There are certain hotspots that have an over 3% positive rate.
[03:36.850 --> 03:38.750]  Not every school district is in those hotspots.
[03:38.750 --> 03:41.230]  I think at this point, you can't really narrow it down.
[03:41.390 --> 03:44.270]  I think you have to assume the entire city is affected equally.
[03:44.790 --> 03:46.410]  Not all that are a lot of testing, right?
[03:48.070 --> 04:04.010]  Yeah, I mean, and if you look at the testing rate in schools, the positivity rate actually within the public schools of New York, what I read today, indicates that it is less than 1%, which is pretty extraordinary compared to the rest of the city.
[04:04.530 --> 04:05.150]  All right.
[04:05.230 --> 04:08.130]  Well, you want to debate the people in government, go right ahead.
[04:08.130 --> 04:09.770]  But I think we've had enough of that.
[04:09.930 --> 04:13.350]  I think we just need to do the smart thing and stay safe.
[04:13.490 --> 04:14.870]  We have Thanksgiving coming up.
[04:15.050 --> 04:17.810]  By the way, folks, I'm asking you this question right now.
[04:17.810 --> 04:19.070]  When is Thanksgiving?
[04:20.090 --> 04:21.170]  Rob, I'm going to ask you.
[04:21.250 --> 04:21.850]  When is Thanksgiving?
[04:24.150 --> 04:24.950]  Was that...
[04:25.570 --> 04:27.370]  Ooh, that was coming up soon.
[04:28.890 --> 04:30.130]  No, actually, it's not.
[04:30.330 --> 04:30.890]  It's not.
[04:31.230 --> 04:32.010]  Kyle, do you have an answer?
[04:32.130 --> 04:32.350]  I know.
[04:32.470 --> 04:32.970]  Go ahead.
[04:33.110 --> 04:33.690]  I know.
[04:33.770 --> 04:34.230]  What's the answer?
[04:34.390 --> 04:35.790]  But I have hints.
[04:35.970 --> 04:36.870]  I have May.
[04:37.470 --> 04:38.150]  That's right.
[04:38.310 --> 04:39.970]  We've postponed it six months.
[04:40.310 --> 04:41.570]  That's all you have to do, folks.
[04:41.670 --> 04:42.590]  Postpone it six months.
[04:42.950 --> 04:43.830]  May 27th.
[04:43.950 --> 04:45.090]  Thursday, May 27th.
[04:45.090 --> 04:47.590]  And what follows is Memorial Day weekend.
[04:48.030 --> 04:51.570]  You'll have five full days to give thanks to whatever you want to give thanks to.
[04:52.230 --> 04:53.830]  And it's something to look forward to.
[04:53.890 --> 04:54.910]  We don't have to cancel it.
[04:55.110 --> 04:56.690]  Let's just move it to the spring.
[04:56.890 --> 04:58.710]  We'll have a spring Thanksgiving for once.
[04:59.090 --> 05:00.410]  We'll get through this.
[05:00.610 --> 05:02.330]  We can do the same thing for Christmas.
[05:02.470 --> 05:03.510]  We can do the same thing for Halloween.
[05:03.870 --> 05:06.690]  I know it might offend some people religiously, but you know what?
[05:07.310 --> 05:09.490]  Staying alive is the most important thing at this point.
[05:09.490 --> 05:17.250]  And if you get together with relatives next week, the original date of Thanksgiving, it's not going to end well.
[05:17.370 --> 05:21.030]  Even if you think you're all safe, there's a good chance you're not.
[05:21.150 --> 05:22.990]  And then more and more people will get sick.
[05:23.050 --> 05:24.830]  Look what's happening in this country right now.
[05:24.950 --> 05:26.170]  The entire country.
[05:26.310 --> 05:30.570]  Unlike in the spring, where it was pockets, the way Alex, you're describing the city.
[05:30.570 --> 05:38.810]  Right now in the country, the whole country is pretty much infected and it's almost out of control.
[05:38.910 --> 05:40.270]  It is out of control in many places.
[05:40.550 --> 05:46.270]  Here we have it somewhat fortunate because we've been taking those precautions, but it still is going up.
[05:46.610 --> 05:52.050]  And the way to keep it from going up so much further is to take these necessary precautions.
[05:52.790 --> 06:08.450]  So Jason, let's talk about what you've been going through because I know, you know, I wanted to have you on the show to talk about your work during the election because you volunteered to work in a place where many people wouldn't.
[06:09.430 --> 06:15.070]  And unfortunately, that seems to be where you were infected, even though you were wearing protection, you know, wearing a mask.
[06:15.330 --> 06:19.270]  I'm not sure what kind of mask, but they're not infallible.
[06:19.990 --> 06:20.510]  Yeah.
[06:20.730 --> 06:30.670]  No, I don't, you know, so I can't specifically put it down to one place, although the place where I met 670 people seems like a pretty good candidate.
[06:31.050 --> 06:31.130]  Yeah.
[06:31.510 --> 06:47.930]  But, um, so we, we actually took this like we were, you know, it's interesting looking back, but, you know, we kind of looked at it like, you know, a soldier going to war, a combination of feeling duty, feeling that there was incredible risk, but also feeling you couldn't not do it.
[06:47.930 --> 07:02.890]  And my biggest concern was that, um, we were going to have, um, reduced numbers of staff at polling places and that people who are older would be convinced not to do it.
[07:03.510 --> 07:08.050]  Um, other people would suddenly get cold feet that morning and skip out.
[07:08.170 --> 07:10.830]  We definitely had at least one person at our location skip out.
[07:11.030 --> 07:14.690]  So, you know, I was pretty committed to doing this.
[07:14.690 --> 07:26.890]  So one of the things that my partner and I really agreed upon was after the election, I would go to a hotel and stayed at a hotel for a week and then get tests and see how the tests came out.
[07:27.250 --> 07:37.630]  And, uh, so I had a test before I went to the election nearing, you know, like a, like four or five days before I had one done a couple of days after the election.
[07:37.790 --> 07:40.990]  And then I had a third one and it was the third one that was positive.
[07:41.490 --> 07:49.910]  And so the numbers seem to indicate that it was probably that polling area that I might've picked it up from somebody.
[07:50.110 --> 07:54.770]  Now I want to make clear to people, anybody for whom this is the first time they're hearing about this from me.
[07:55.330 --> 07:56.350]  I'm very lucky.
[07:56.570 --> 07:59.510]  My symptoms are basically non-existent.
[07:59.670 --> 08:05.070]  I'm very, the only way I even know that I have it is because of the test.
[08:05.070 --> 08:14.770]  So in the lottery, I quote unquote won in terms of, I caught it, but I caught it in a way that doesn't seem to have affected my breathing or my activity.
[08:15.170 --> 08:18.810]  The day after, um, I got my test.
[08:19.110 --> 08:26.090]  I went out for a very long four hour walk, uh, out, out in the middle of nowhere, just, you know, my exercise.
[08:26.090 --> 08:28.670]  So I'm not feeling any of these symptoms.
[08:28.970 --> 08:32.670]  And I had a beautiful call from a health worker.
[08:32.910 --> 08:45.530]  I don't know, you know, maybe it's just the past few years, but I was fundamentally surprised to get a state call that was supportive, helpful, and interesting.
[08:45.810 --> 09:02.550]  Like I got a call from the New York city health department with a very cheery caller, you know, an operator who walked through, got information from me, you know, gave me information, mailed me packets, and, uh, even offered to get me food and medicine if that was an issue.
[09:02.730 --> 09:03.130]  Really?
[09:03.350 --> 09:03.570]  Wow.
[09:04.210 --> 09:06.150]  You know, just like, do you need help with that?
[09:06.230 --> 09:06.910]  Do you need assistance?
[09:07.450 --> 09:08.570]  Um, yeah.
[09:08.790 --> 09:16.810]  And if I was somebody who was having a lot of trouble breathing, who was like alone, stuck in their house, afraid, I think that call would have been like a lifeline.
[09:16.810 --> 09:32.490]  So, I'm all, you know, it's weird that we have in some ways gotten to the point that one is surprised by functioning social services, like that, that that would be like, wow, I didn't even know we did that, but that's what I got.
[09:33.070 --> 09:37.110]  Um, so, so yeah, I worked the election with masks and gloves.
[09:37.510 --> 09:44.170]  Um, we, we were, you know, the people who came in, nobody resisted wearing a mask.
[09:44.170 --> 09:48.370]  Um, every, every single voter who came in wore a mask.
[09:48.610 --> 10:13.970]  And, uh, I was really impressed by the fact that I've, I've worked elections before and we had, we had at first 20 and then a hundred and, uh, change people waiting outside when we opened, um, you know, by, by, we've opened at six by six 30, there were a hundred people outside and we had voters until 1 PM.
[10:14.690 --> 10:21.530]  And normally what happens is people wait till after work because their jobs don't give them the day off to vote.
[10:22.090 --> 10:26.610]  And we usually expect a rush of people by about seven or eight.
[10:26.770 --> 10:28.310]  And then the polls close at nine.
[10:28.570 --> 10:31.870]  And just so people know, you can be online at nine and you will vote.
[10:31.870 --> 10:37.810]  But between seven 30 and nine, not a single person came into our polling place.
[10:38.010 --> 10:38.370]  Interesting.
[10:38.590 --> 10:40.850]  Like they finished voting.
[10:41.490 --> 10:44.390]  Well, are you in a very, a very populated area?
[10:45.450 --> 10:50.770]  Um, so my ward was 1,675 people.
[10:51.010 --> 10:54.030]  I believe, uh, might be 1,700.
[10:54.670 --> 10:59.230]  And I could idly see who had voted and not.
[10:59.230 --> 11:03.530]  And the vast, vast majority had voted before the election day.
[11:04.270 --> 11:15.090]  So it got to the point with the little system that somebody could come in and I could use the first letter of their last name and find them like not being one of the people who hadn't voted yet.
[11:15.330 --> 11:17.670]  So a lot of people did early voting.
[11:17.830 --> 11:23.250]  And what, what kind of, what, what kind of a space was it that you were having this in?
[11:23.930 --> 11:25.990]  This was in a school gymnasium.
[11:26.150 --> 11:26.310]  Okay.
[11:26.310 --> 11:43.530]  So we had a person who full time, uh, their entire job was to rub down every voting booth with alcohol after each vote to wipe the screen from the poll pad where people can sign a signature with a, um, pen.
[11:43.750 --> 11:52.730]  And those pens after each use were put into a cup and somebody had to clean every pen in that cup and put it back into the first cup.
[11:53.250 --> 11:56.050]  Like we were, we were really trying.
[11:56.370 --> 11:58.170]  This was, nobody was being lackadaisical.
[11:58.430 --> 12:15.530]  We in fact had a slight issue in that it was very cold and we had to like, you know, wind people into the hallway in a way that was still safe with lots of distance because we didn't like how many elderly people were coming and having to stand outside in the cold before,
[12:15.530 --> 12:16.730]  you know, sunlight.
[12:17.430 --> 12:19.450]  Um, there was one voter who was 90.
[12:19.750 --> 12:21.210]  I noticed that she was 90.
[12:21.690 --> 12:25.650]  I mean, there were people who were very elderly coming in to do this vote.
[12:25.810 --> 12:26.650]  Try and stop them.
[12:27.030 --> 12:27.090]  Yeah.
[12:27.810 --> 12:28.090]  Yeah.
[12:28.230 --> 12:28.670]  That's awesome.
[12:28.850 --> 12:31.990]  So it sounds like, it sounds like you did everything right.
[12:32.230 --> 12:32.990]  It really does.
[12:33.110 --> 12:34.470]  All of, all of you down there.
[12:34.870 --> 12:37.250]  Uh, can I ask what, what kind of mask you were wearing?
[12:38.130 --> 12:45.230]  Oh, I was wearing a straight up, uh, cloth mask, you know, the, the, the, um, the disposable surgical mask.
[12:45.450 --> 12:46.690]  That's probably the weak point.
[12:46.810 --> 12:47.010]  So another...
[12:47.010 --> 12:52.150]  That's probably what, what the weakest point was because, uh, the KN95s do a better job.
[12:52.350 --> 12:58.330]  Uh, I don't know if they would have protected you through the whole day, but, uh, and the N95s obviously are, are, are the best.
[12:59.030 --> 12:59.470]  Um, right.
[12:59.690 --> 13:06.670]  But the cloth ones are good for, you know, just going out for a little while, but maybe, maybe having an all day thing, maybe that was it.
[13:06.850 --> 13:09.170]  But again, this is, this is a warning to everybody.
[13:09.170 --> 13:14.070]  Uh, you can, you can take all these precautions and still, it, it, it might not be enough.
[13:14.870 --> 13:15.270]  Right.
[13:15.950 --> 13:37.490]  Yeah, no, uh, I, I, you know, it's, it's, it's having, like I said, drawn, uh, a lucky whatever it is, it is now less fearful than it was for me, uh, in terms of at least now I, like, you can, you can really work yourself up emotionally.
[13:37.750 --> 13:42.070]  I think that's what's going to be getting to people is that they're very scared of this thing.
[13:42.070 --> 13:45.290]  And I'm not saying, I am definitely not saying I got it.
[13:45.470 --> 13:46.030]  It's awesome.
[13:46.210 --> 13:53.690]  I'm just saying you got to keep on top of this and being, you know, uh, uh, letting yourself panic.
[13:53.890 --> 13:57.330]  And I, I, I was, I was struck by a list.
[13:57.490 --> 14:00.270]  I was, of course, reading a lot of literature about different symptoms.
[14:00.270 --> 14:16.270]  And one of the, uh, things, one of the, uh, documents mentioned how, you know, here's, here is the symptom of difficult breathing, which should not be confused with panic attacks discussing this process.
[14:16.270 --> 14:20.630]  Like if you are having a panic attack is you're scared.
[14:20.810 --> 14:22.070]  That's not one of the symptoms.
[14:22.270 --> 14:23.570]  That's not difficult breathing.
[14:23.810 --> 14:25.210]  You're just naturally scared.
[14:25.210 --> 14:25.770]  Yep.
[14:26.130 --> 14:31.630]  Um, you know, we're, we're just in a situation right now where there's just an enormous amount of fear.
[14:32.870 --> 14:42.130]  And I think now, you know, some of you may want to debate me on this, but I think history is going to look at back at this and say, we didn't quite handle this right.
[14:42.930 --> 14:43.330]  Yeah.
[14:43.510 --> 14:43.710]  Yeah.
[14:43.810 --> 14:44.990]  I think that's possible.
[14:45.470 --> 14:52.350]  We kind of fumbled the ball a tad and it was very illuminating, uh, the amount of people.
[14:52.690 --> 14:59.470]  I mean, I knew that there were a number of people who would just fall into conspiracy concern.
[14:59.470 --> 15:08.950]  I could also understand people seeing mixed messages come from a lot of locations and thinking, therefore, they didn't have to do anything while everybody, quote unquote, sorted it out.
[15:09.490 --> 15:10.870]  And it's very unfortunate.
[15:11.050 --> 15:13.430]  And we have lost some very good people because of this.
[15:13.570 --> 15:20.710]  It's, uh, it's just crossed a quarter of a million people who have died in this country as of tonight, which is a really, really sobering statistic.
[15:20.910 --> 15:25.490]  I don't think a quarter of a million people in this country have died of any one thing before.
[15:26.170 --> 15:28.610]  Uh, and I just, I'm, I'm, I'm blown away by that.
[15:28.690 --> 15:34.930]  But what you say about, um, uh, expecting the doubters and conspiracy theorists, yes, of course, that's going to happen.
[15:34.930 --> 15:41.390]  It was made so much monumentally worse by the president of the United States being one of those people.
[15:41.710 --> 15:46.230]  And that is something that I really think history will judge us extremely harshly for.
[15:46.550 --> 15:51.690]  Now, Jason, um, so right now, first of all, have you been in touch with other people at the polling places?
[15:51.690 --> 15:53.470]  Anyone else tested positive who worked there?
[15:54.070 --> 15:56.770]  I haven't heard anybody testing positive yet.
[15:56.770 --> 15:59.730]  I informed them as soon as I got my positive test.
[15:59.730 --> 16:06.070]  I let the election person know and she let all the people who worked there know and that they should get tests.
[16:06.190 --> 16:08.530]  But even if they got tests, they might not have them back yet.
[16:08.990 --> 16:17.410]  Um, but there was a, uh, positive, a person who later tested positive at different polling place in my county.
[16:17.670 --> 16:20.170]  So that was a different one.
[16:20.470 --> 16:25.350]  Um, I suspect that, and I think this is, here's the thing, right?
[16:25.350 --> 16:28.610]  I think that a lot of this is so against human nature.
[16:28.930 --> 16:32.170]  And that's, what's really making this virus devastating.
[16:32.330 --> 16:40.130]  The fact that you can walk around for days and be really infectious and look completely and feel completely normal.
[16:40.850 --> 16:50.730]  So now that, you know, you have me testing positive only because I was really, you know, on the ball and willing to pay for test after test.
[16:50.990 --> 17:03.950]  I have no idea what my, you know, coworkers, you know, there are people who go and do poll working, not out of some intense sense of duty, but because they get paid for that day and they need that income.
[17:04.570 --> 17:11.110]  So their response is not going to be to immediately blast out a percentage of that to go pay for tests.
[17:11.110 --> 17:14.610]  So they're going to be, you know, maybe not aware.
[17:15.030 --> 17:22.230]  So, um, I'm hoping that, you know, this was, you know, something that hasn't affected a lot of people.
[17:22.450 --> 17:28.530]  I'm hoping that people got the chance to vote, um, without experiencing health issues because of it.
[17:28.910 --> 17:34.150]  And, uh, I would like us to really consider mail in voting.
[17:34.550 --> 17:36.530]  I think we can pull it off.
[17:37.270 --> 17:38.770]  I think so.
[17:38.990 --> 17:43.310]  I'd like to see something like that where we just all know, you know, the voting has occurred.
[17:44.930 --> 17:45.710]  We're done.
[17:45.890 --> 17:47.370]  We're not standing in lines.
[17:47.670 --> 17:50.710]  You know, Jason, I didn't even consider the fact that you were paying for these tests.
[17:50.850 --> 17:57.070]  I just assumed you were just getting the test like, like in a normal country where you could just see, Hey, do I have this deadly disease?
[17:57.450 --> 17:59.790]  Um, but you have to actually pay every single time.
[17:59.930 --> 18:08.030]  Now, keep in mind too, if you weren't actually doing this, if you weren't, uh, uh, working in a polling station, why would you even have gotten the test?
[18:08.270 --> 18:14.850]  How many people out there might not even know they have COVID because you don't have any symptoms?
[18:14.870 --> 18:17.310]  There's no reason for you to, uh, to get a test.
[18:17.710 --> 18:19.890]  The only reason you did was because you were around so many people.
[18:20.190 --> 18:28.310]  Uh, this, this could be much, much bigger than, than it's being reported right now, which is already extremely, extremely huge.
[18:28.530 --> 18:32.530]  Uh, what's ahead for you now, as far as, uh, the next, the next steps.
[18:33.210 --> 18:40.150]  Well, according to the numbers and from the person who called me, my quarantine ends, uh, this Saturday.
[18:40.610 --> 18:53.410]  So in theory, then I just go back to being like every other person who should be, you know, wearing masks and, uh, um, uh, not, you know, avoiding contact where possible, keeping things to a minimum.
[18:53.410 --> 19:07.230]  So now this, you know, brings up that my partner who lives with me, we've been, we've been in separate rooms all this time, but now we're going to have to keep track of her and make sure she's fine and make sure she doesn't show any symptoms.
[19:07.810 --> 19:12.950]  Um, so we're going to just step carefully for the next basically few weeks on this.
[19:12.950 --> 19:21.530]  Um, I'll switch to being the caregiver who's, you know, doing the cleaning and the prepping and all that while she watches for symptoms.
[19:21.790 --> 19:26.010]  So it's, you know, it's, it's, it's methodical.
[19:26.270 --> 19:27.110]  It's difficult.
[19:27.410 --> 19:37.330]  It's not like say bed bugs where like you can see or feel something, you know, you're working against an invisible enemy.
[19:38.790 --> 20:00.910]  Um, but it's, it's, it's, it's like, it's a perfect to me case of like, you know, working towards a goal without having to get the feedback of the goal, which, um, frankly is a lot of civic life and a lot of other things, you know, like you don't need something to being on your phone to let you know that you're,
[20:00.970 --> 20:02.130]  you're doing the right thing.
[20:02.130 --> 20:04.230]  So that's what it is for us.
[20:04.450 --> 20:07.470]  So, and I also want to really stress, we are really lucky.
[20:07.690 --> 20:15.550]  We live in a nice house that has my space and we can choose to work from home because we both have jobs that work from home.
[20:15.930 --> 20:26.530]  I completely empathize with some poor person who slings hash, who knows that if they tell people that they're positive, they may not make rent.
[20:26.530 --> 20:31.830]  And they are stuck in the worst possible situation.
[20:32.170 --> 20:39.430]  And there's nothing, uh, evaluating that it's just fighting over these kinds of situations.
[20:39.430 --> 20:42.650]  So I totally get that people are really rough shape.
[20:42.650 --> 20:52.950]  So I, I at no point want to hear the phrase hero or anything positive to the fact that I'm just doing what a person should do in a health crisis.
[20:52.950 --> 20:56.630]  Well, can we, can we, uh, can we say inspiration then?
[20:57.690 --> 21:06.650]  Oh, I'm happy to talk to people about what happened and show them that like, it is possible to both feel and look healthy and not be healthy.
[21:07.230 --> 21:09.210]  And that there is light at the end of the tunnel.
[21:09.630 --> 21:15.970]  Somebody, uh, somebody sent in some, um, some signs that are being put up in various, um, uh, locations.
[21:15.970 --> 21:23.430]  Uh, this I think is from a, um, a thrift store and please, if you have, uh, a sign that is particularly good, send it into us.
[21:23.590 --> 21:27.310]  O th at 2600.com having to do with COVID and precautions.
[21:27.570 --> 21:31.010]  This, this is what was posted outside a, um, um, a thrift store.
[21:31.130 --> 21:35.510]  If you choose not to wear a mask, we respectfully ask that you postpone your visit.
[21:35.670 --> 21:42.130]  We'll be happy to debate the efficacy of masks with you when this is all over and you come in to sell your dead grandmother's clothes.
[21:42.950 --> 21:45.210]  Too little didn't read masks required.
[21:46.290 --> 21:48.210]  Yeah, that's, that's some attitude there.
[21:48.350 --> 21:55.530]  And here's, um, I'm not sure what, what this was in front of, but, um, this is in front of some kind of, um, uh, location, uh, to accommodate anti-maskers.
[21:55.730 --> 22:01.330]  We have provided this space away from everyone else where you can stare at your reflection since apparently you're the only person you care about.
[22:01.790 --> 22:03.290]  And it's, it's just a mirror.
[22:04.290 --> 22:11.750]  Yeah, uh, let's, let's have some fun with this and, um, share some of the, uh, particularly witty, uh, notes that you might see.
[22:12.390 --> 22:13.910]  Alex looks like you have something to say.
[22:15.690 --> 22:16.090]  No?
[22:16.270 --> 22:23.030]  Uh, just bouncing off what Jason was saying in terms of his, uh, being lucky, I think to have it now.
[22:23.350 --> 22:30.790]  If you recall back in, in March, I think it was, was when I got sick and I still don't know whether or not I actually had the virus.
[22:30.790 --> 22:43.550]  Looking back at it, you know, I had, it seems like more symptoms than, than Jason had, but back then we had really no idea and we had no testing and, and no capabilities for, for even, you know, going to a hospital.
[22:43.750 --> 22:56.670]  It was a, it was a really, if you think about how far we've come given Jason's situation and what he recanted to us over the last few minutes, it is a pretty, pretty extraordinary to think of the strides that we've made.
[22:56.670 --> 23:01.050]  When I was sick, the advice was stay away from hospitals.
[23:01.370 --> 23:03.410]  You, you don't go for a test.
[23:03.590 --> 23:04.670]  Don't get tested.
[23:05.210 --> 23:08.530]  You know, save the test for somebody who's having respiratory issues.
[23:09.110 --> 23:24.950]  And now, you know, look at Jason who, you know, very admirably and, and I, and I think dutifully was a poll worker and probably contracted this during that period of time, was able to find out essentially on account of, of that civic duty that, that he was tested positive.
[23:25.370 --> 23:28.750]  You know, I think these are, these are extraordinary steps that we're, that we're making here.
[23:28.750 --> 23:31.530]  And I think we're well on the way towards, towards a vaccine.
[23:31.910 --> 23:39.850]  People see that there's a light at the end of the tunnel, but I think this is such an important reminder that we are by no means out of the woods.
[23:39.850 --> 23:44.410]  And that, that, that light at the end of the tunnel is pretty goddamn far away.
[23:44.690 --> 23:57.670]  I mean, the logistics of acquiring the vaccine, getting approval for early usage, which I believe Pfizer is going to, going to apply for with the FDA imminently any day now.
[23:57.670 --> 24:08.370]  That could result in literally hundreds of thousands of pages of documentation that the FDA has to approve before giving the, the, the, the sign off to early usage.
[24:08.610 --> 24:13.710]  And then you have the logistics of distributing this around the country, which is, it's going to take a long time.
[24:13.870 --> 24:18.570]  You know, we're not going to be out of the woods here, probably until the spring or the July.
[24:18.790 --> 24:20.630]  And I think we have to be realistic about that.
[24:20.770 --> 24:25.370]  We're going to have similar situations that Jason just recounted for, for quite a long period of time.
[24:25.370 --> 24:35.590]  It's possible spring Thanksgiving might also be postponed, but you know, this little temper tantrum that Trump is throwing is only adding to the time it's going to take to coordinate things between administrations.
[24:36.270 --> 24:37.610]  It's, it's just unbelievable.
[24:37.770 --> 24:40.190]  The worst possible time to do something like this.
[24:42.250 --> 24:42.690]  Yeah.
[24:43.290 --> 24:51.290]  Talking of the signs that people are putting up, there was a great picture going around earlier today of one that said something to the effect of, if you don't have a mask, we'll be taking your temperature.
[24:51.290 --> 24:56.450]  We only have rectal thermometers, which, which was entertaining.
[24:56.630 --> 25:02.850]  And another, another thing along these lines that Gila and I have been doing, as many people have, we've built up a nice collection of masks.
[25:03.030 --> 25:09.990]  And I've been customizing some of them, writing the words, wear your mask, writing the words, cover your nose and your mouth.
[25:09.990 --> 25:22.750]  And we've noticed as we walk around the neighborhood wearing these, when we see people who aren't wearing their masks and they look back at us, as you do when someone's walking down the sidewalk, we've known, we've noticed people averting their eyes and looking ashamed as they should.
[25:22.970 --> 25:25.810]  We've also seen people pull their masks up from their chins.
[25:25.810 --> 25:28.470]  So, you know, sometimes shame works, which is a good thing.
[25:28.750 --> 25:31.930]  I prefer to be a little bit more positive.
[25:31.930 --> 25:35.250]  But whenever I see somebody with a mask, I say, hey, you found the cure.
[25:35.610 --> 25:37.750]  Are you going to show the rest of us?
[25:38.170 --> 25:40.650]  You know, and that usually gets a look.
[25:42.870 --> 25:46.430]  Seriously, though, you know, they're starting to hoard toilet paper again.
[25:47.030 --> 25:48.390]  You can't find it in stores.
[25:48.970 --> 25:50.170]  We went through this already.
[25:50.170 --> 25:56.190]  That's not the thing that that disappears unless people panic for no particular reason.
[25:57.010 --> 26:00.810]  It's just the books that can be written over human behavior during this period.
[26:01.030 --> 26:03.030]  It's just they're going to fill shelves.
[26:03.170 --> 26:03.570]  They really will.
[26:05.350 --> 26:14.670]  OK, Jason, we're going to talk more about the the mechanisms of what you were doing in the polling station, because we are curious about that as hackers.
[26:14.670 --> 26:20.410]  But first, I wanted to go through a story that came out of the past couple of days.
[26:20.550 --> 26:24.770]  You know, people are still using the worst passwords possible.
[26:24.930 --> 26:26.190]  This is the year 2020.
[26:26.790 --> 26:27.830]  It's not 1981.
[26:28.410 --> 26:29.070]  It's 2020.
[26:29.610 --> 26:32.390]  Do you know what the most popular password still is to this day?
[26:32.530 --> 26:33.290]  Who wants to guess?
[26:33.510 --> 26:34.070]  Go ahead, Alex.
[26:34.750 --> 26:35.570]  Is it monkey?
[26:36.950 --> 26:38.450]  No, no, it's not monkey.
[26:38.610 --> 26:40.830]  And in fact, monkey is not on the top 10.
[26:41.050 --> 26:42.050]  I don't know where you got that from.
[26:42.050 --> 26:42.550]  Yes.
[26:42.870 --> 26:45.110]  Kyle, you have one, two, three, four, five, six.
[26:45.690 --> 26:47.170]  You're not reading the same story, are you?
[26:47.350 --> 26:47.590]  No.
[26:47.730 --> 26:49.570]  OK, you didn't read the same story already, did you?
[26:49.890 --> 26:50.170]  No.
[26:50.370 --> 26:50.970]  OK, you're right.
[26:51.110 --> 26:52.330]  It is one, two, three, four, five, six.
[26:52.470 --> 26:54.490]  Do you want to guess what the second password is?
[26:54.930 --> 26:56.170]  Second most popular password.
[26:56.730 --> 26:57.670]  Alex, you want to try again?
[26:58.250 --> 26:58.890]  Is it monkey?
[26:59.310 --> 27:00.250]  No, it's not monkey.
[27:00.390 --> 27:03.030]  Why would it be monkey the second time when it's not in the top 10?
[27:03.310 --> 27:04.050]  Rob, how about you?
[27:05.270 --> 27:05.890]  Is it God?
[27:06.210 --> 27:06.970]  I saw that in a film.
[27:07.270 --> 27:08.250]  No, no, it's not God.
[27:08.350 --> 27:09.490]  In fact, God's not in there either.
[27:10.390 --> 27:13.370]  It's one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine.
[27:14.770 --> 27:15.050]  Yeah.
[27:16.150 --> 27:18.230]  I'm sorry, Taylor, were you going to guess that one?
[27:18.230 --> 27:19.930]  OK, I was going to guess, but you didn't call it.
[27:19.950 --> 27:22.750]  All right, then you can guess number three and number four if you want.
[27:23.250 --> 27:23.530]  Is it...
[27:23.530 --> 27:25.250]  OK, how about password?
[27:25.490 --> 27:26.250]  That is number four.
[27:26.370 --> 27:26.750]  Very good.
[27:27.030 --> 27:28.150]  Do you want to guess number three?
[27:28.750 --> 27:29.750]  Is it one, two, three, four?
[27:30.930 --> 27:31.970]  No, one, two, three, four.
[27:32.150 --> 27:33.470]  Actually, for some reason, it's not on the...
[27:33.470 --> 27:35.770]  I guess because it has to be more than four characters.
[27:36.010 --> 27:36.110]  Yeah.
[27:36.670 --> 27:38.090]  So that's why that's not in the top 10.
[27:38.850 --> 27:39.730]  But number three?
[27:39.890 --> 27:40.410]  Anyone want to guess?
[27:40.810 --> 27:41.710]  It's not that easy.
[27:42.470 --> 27:43.370]  It really isn't.
[27:44.130 --> 27:44.870]  Go ahead, Alex.
[27:45.690 --> 27:46.770]  It's not a monkey, is it?
[27:47.210 --> 27:47.810]  All right, that's it.
[27:47.850 --> 27:48.670]  Turn his microphone off.
[27:48.770 --> 27:49.790]  Is there a button for that?
[27:49.970 --> 27:50.290]  Thank you.
[27:52.030 --> 27:52.510]  All right.
[27:52.690 --> 27:54.370]  Number three is picture one.
[27:54.810 --> 27:56.530]  Picture and the number one.
[27:56.810 --> 27:58.850]  I never used that password in my life.
[27:58.970 --> 28:01.030]  When I was trying to be stupid, I never even used that.
[28:01.990 --> 28:03.490]  Okay, we know number four is password.
[28:03.690 --> 28:04.370]  Number five?
[28:05.610 --> 28:06.010]  Anybody?
[28:06.410 --> 28:06.990]  Jason, maybe?
[28:09.490 --> 28:09.890]  No?
[28:10.230 --> 28:10.890]  Is Jason there?
[28:12.030 --> 28:12.930]  Jason, we don't hear you.
[28:13.150 --> 28:13.270]  Jason's here.
[28:13.470 --> 28:15.110]  You can't see you, Jason.
[28:16.050 --> 28:19.330]  Jason's trying to be cool and not overflow with all sorts of...
[28:19.330 --> 28:23.230]  I mean, you've come up with a lot of bad behavior online.
[28:23.830 --> 28:27.550]  Can you think of any bad passwords you might want to share in the remaining six?
[28:27.550 --> 28:28.990]  Oh, hacker.
[28:29.690 --> 28:30.590]  No, it's not there.
[28:30.710 --> 28:31.770]  But yeah, that's a bad password.
[28:33.950 --> 28:36.310]  Well, of course, we have one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight.
[28:36.670 --> 28:37.770]  All right, so that's another one.
[28:38.230 --> 28:39.310]  We have six ones.
[28:41.650 --> 28:42.630]  I'm not going to call them again.
[28:42.630 --> 28:43.430]  It's just going to say monkey.
[28:44.210 --> 28:45.050]  Oh yeah, I forgot.
[28:45.950 --> 28:46.930]  Yes, go ahead, Alex.
[28:46.970 --> 28:47.330]  What is it?
[28:48.350 --> 28:58.270]  If you look at the pattern here, the bad passwords that appear to be most common are the ones that you can slide your finger down the keyboard and make, right?
[28:58.610 --> 29:00.950]  So it's the slider type of password.
[29:01.290 --> 29:01.370]  Yeah.
[29:01.530 --> 29:01.870]  Yeah.
[29:04.210 --> 29:08.630]  So I'm going to guess that QWERTY something is probably one of them.
[29:08.790 --> 29:11.610]  Well, it might be 11 through 20, but it's not one through 10.
[29:11.830 --> 29:14.270]  The remaining ones actually are just variations.
[29:14.550 --> 29:18.170]  One, two, three, one, two, three, which I think is a good password because you have to go back.
[29:18.430 --> 29:20.290]  You're not just sliding over in the same direction.
[29:20.470 --> 29:23.350]  You have to do that, and then you fool everybody by going back and doing it again.
[29:23.850 --> 29:24.810]  Who's going to guess that?
[29:25.310 --> 29:26.550]  One, two, three, four, five.
[29:27.130 --> 29:27.350]  All right.
[29:27.510 --> 29:30.650]  And then, finally, number nine, or semi-finally.
[29:31.010 --> 29:33.050]  One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, zero.
[29:33.770 --> 29:35.550]  Okay, but guess what number 10 is.
[29:35.730 --> 29:36.070]  You know what?
[29:36.130 --> 29:36.850]  It's a waste of time.
[29:36.910 --> 29:37.610]  No one's going to guess it.
[29:37.970 --> 29:40.930]  Number 10 is SENHA.
[29:41.590 --> 29:43.350]  S-E-N-H-A.
[29:43.930 --> 29:47.930]  Does anybody understand why that is one of the most popular passwords used?
[29:49.490 --> 29:50.910]  The silence tells me no.
[29:51.130 --> 29:57.310]  Is it because it means something in a country that has a lot of people that use that password?
[29:57.310 --> 29:57.850]  Well, maybe.
[29:57.850 --> 29:59.350]  But do they spell it that way?
[29:59.630 --> 30:00.470]  Wouldn't they use...
[30:00.470 --> 30:01.950]  It's like weighting the average somehow?
[30:02.130 --> 30:02.290]  All right.
[30:02.350 --> 30:11.710]  Well, I'm sure a listener might be able to write to us, O-T-H at 2600.com, and tell us why SENHA is number 10 on the 10 most common passwords of 2020.
[30:11.950 --> 30:13.290]  Alex, unless you have an answer.
[30:13.750 --> 30:16.310]  I believe that that's Portuguese for password.
[30:16.970 --> 30:21.110]  Well, why is a Portuguese word for password skyrocket up like that?
[30:21.370 --> 30:22.390]  That's number 10.
[30:23.950 --> 30:28.750]  Maybe it just goes to the amount of Portuguese-speaking people in the world.
[30:28.950 --> 30:32.670]  I mean, people don't forget that Brazil speaks Portuguese as well as Portugal.
[30:32.890 --> 30:34.950]  Yeah, but there's a lot of Spanish speakers, too.
[30:35.050 --> 30:37.810]  A lot of Chinese, you know, Mandarin and Cantonese.
[30:38.950 --> 30:39.470]  Gila?
[30:40.090 --> 30:45.430]  I think, though, that it's an easy word to use because it doesn't require any special characters.
[30:45.430 --> 30:45.850]  Okay.
[30:46.210 --> 30:47.910]  It doesn't require Chinese characters.
[30:48.030 --> 30:48.990]  It doesn't require Japanese characters.
[30:49.110 --> 30:50.370]  It doesn't require Cyrillic characters.
[30:50.550 --> 30:51.990]  It doesn't even require a tilde.
[30:52.510 --> 30:54.470]  So it's just a really easy...
[30:54.470 --> 30:58.130]  And, you know, I don't support this in any way, you understand.
[30:58.410 --> 31:00.810]  But, I mean, at least that makes a certain amount of sense.
[31:00.970 --> 31:03.670]  Oh, yeah, because it's shorter than password, right?
[31:03.770 --> 31:04.490]  Less characters.
[31:04.910 --> 31:05.050]  Okay.
[31:05.050 --> 31:05.550]  Right.
[31:06.010 --> 31:06.850]  That's a good theory.
[31:07.050 --> 31:10.430]  Maybe Spanish speakers are trained to use better passwords, too.
[31:11.130 --> 31:11.950]  That could be something.
[31:12.110 --> 31:12.230]  Very possible.
[31:12.330 --> 31:12.470]  Yeah.
[31:12.590 --> 31:12.870]  All right.
[31:14.630 --> 31:26.150]  Well, we've been following another interesting story over the past couple of weeks involving this guy who works for an agency known as Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency.
[31:26.150 --> 31:40.470]  In fact, there was a story on Friday where, basically, the cybersecurity director was expecting to be fired after refusing to edit a page debunking election hacking myths.
[31:40.470 --> 31:44.630]  Yeah, there was a page there that basically said reality.
[31:45.050 --> 31:51.350]  Well, actually, the rumor was, the rumor was, votes are being cast on behalf of dead people and these votes are being counted.
[31:51.710 --> 31:59.850]  Reality, voter registration list maintenance and other election integrity measures protect against voting illegally on behalf of deceased individuals.
[32:00.810 --> 32:12.650]  Chris Krebs is the director or was the director of CISA, I believe that's how you pronounce it, the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency, CISA.gov.
[32:12.930 --> 32:22.010]  And he was fired last night as part of what I think is a really clumsy step in the ongoing slow motion coup that Donald Trump is attempting.
[32:22.450 --> 32:35.430]  Last night, we had his firing after he dared to speak the truth and we also had a county in Michigan try to block the results of the election by nullifying Detroit.
[32:35.430 --> 32:35.630]  Detroit.
[32:35.770 --> 32:37.950]  That's kind of saying, Detroit, you don't count.
[32:38.230 --> 32:45.030]  And that was met with the kind of reaction you would expect to be met with and quickly reversed.
[32:46.110 --> 32:46.610]  Wow.
[32:46.810 --> 32:53.810]  So, yeah, he was fired and he is now thought of as being a hero.
[32:53.850 --> 32:57.010]  But the interesting thing here is that the web page is still up.
[32:57.010 --> 33:00.250]  I don't know if Trump knows how to take that webpage down.
[33:00.470 --> 33:08.230]  If you go to www.CISA.gov slash rumor control, you will actually see a video.
[33:08.410 --> 33:09.710]  In fact, I'm going to try and play some of this.
[33:09.950 --> 33:11.350]  See if that actually works.
[33:11.370 --> 33:20.270]  This site actually was one of his innovations in preparing for the election as well as contacting and coordinating with the rest of the country and their election.
[33:20.270 --> 33:21.110]  Hi.
[33:21.330 --> 33:25.210]  I'm Chris Krebs with the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency.
[33:25.350 --> 33:25.670]  Don't interrupt.
[33:25.910 --> 33:33.370]  For the last several years, we've been working with election officials across the country to ensure that the 2020 election is as secure as possible.
[33:33.370 --> 33:40.310]  We're now in the final stretch of the election and tens of millions of voters have already cast their votes free from foreign interference.
[33:41.030 --> 33:45.430]  We remain confident that no foreign cyber actor can change your vote.
[33:45.570 --> 33:51.390]  And we still believe that it would be incredibly difficult for them to change the outcome of an election at the national level.
[33:52.010 --> 33:59.950]  But that doesn't mean various actors won't try to introduce chaos in our elections and make sensational claims that overstate their capabilities.
[33:59.950 --> 34:12.330]  In fact, the days and weeks just before and after election day are the perfect time for our adversaries to launch efforts intended to undermine your confidence in the integrity of the electoral process.
[34:13.090 --> 34:18.950]  Cyber actors can do this by taking advantage of the fact that sometimes it's not clear how technology is used.
[34:19.610 --> 34:25.890]  For starters, election officials use computers to improve both your ability to vote and the accuracy of the vote itself.
[34:25.890 --> 34:30.670]  But in doing so, election officials understand that these systems aren't perfect.
[34:30.910 --> 34:34.290]  And sometimes things break, malfunction or could even be hacked.
[34:34.770 --> 34:40.010]  The election experience is designed to ensure that technology is not a single point of failure.
[34:40.210 --> 34:44.730]  And there are measures in place to ensure that you can vote and your vote is counted correctly.
[34:45.350 --> 34:53.510]  You should have confidence in the integrity of the process and don't overreact to claims that exaggerate the importance of insignificant events.
[34:54.730 --> 35:11.490]  Anticipating attempts along these lines, CISA and the FBI recently released a series of public service announcements describing some of the tactics the bad guys might use, the security measures in place to stop them, and the steps you can take to spot and stop foreign influence.
[35:11.490 --> 35:15.530]  We've also posted our election security rumor control page.
[35:15.670 --> 35:19.690]  You can find that at CISA.gov slash rumor control.
[35:20.130 --> 35:28.570]  We cover a variety of scenarios to help you, as an informed voter, distinguish between rumors and facts on election security issues.
[35:29.290 --> 35:30.450]  A few things you can do.
[35:30.730 --> 35:34.710]  First, look for trusted sources of information, like election officials.
[35:34.710 --> 35:38.330]  Second, only share those trusted sources of information.
[35:39.090 --> 35:44.330]  And third, discourage others from sharing sensational, but unverified information.
[35:44.670 --> 35:48.870]  The last line of defense in election security is you, the American voter.
[35:49.170 --> 35:53.490]  So be prepared for efforts that call into question the legitimacy of the election.
[35:54.090 --> 35:59.010]  I'm confident that American voters are going to decide the 2020 election, and you should be too.
[35:59.010 --> 36:03.590]  So get out there and vote with confidence and help us protect 2020.
[36:05.250 --> 36:10.970]  And that, that was enough to get this guy fired, having confidence in the American voters.
[36:12.970 --> 36:13.970]  What do you guys think?
[36:14.230 --> 36:14.630]  Alex?
[36:18.130 --> 36:23.870]  Look, I have a lot of very strong feelings, I think, about this entire situation.
[36:23.870 --> 36:28.930]  And I've dealt with CISA, its analysts and its personnel, for quite a while.
[36:29.230 --> 36:33.610]  I've shared threat intelligence with DHS and CISA on a number of occasions.
[36:33.910 --> 36:37.790]  And I also, and CISA's mission isn't just election-focused.
[36:37.790 --> 36:39.830]  It's infrastructure-focused as well.
[36:39.950 --> 36:52.330]  So that's why we've shared a lot of information with CISA and NCCIC, which was another sort of clearinghouse for cyber-related threat information that became part of CISA.
[36:52.910 --> 37:02.650]  And I dealt with CISA quite regularly, quite a bit, when I was the acting CISO of the NFL, because CISA also protected stadiums and things like that around the country.
[37:02.670 --> 37:08.610]  So they have really quite an important mission when it comes to securing the infrastructure of the United States.
[37:09.230 --> 37:21.710]  And I think when Chris Krebs talked about adversaries trying to discredit the election in the days and weeks, immediately following the election, well, that was quite a prediction, wasn't it?
[37:21.870 --> 37:22.090]  Yeah.
[37:24.010 --> 37:30.910]  I don't know if he could have predicted who our adversaries would be at that point, but they certainly did pop up, didn't they?
[37:31.050 --> 37:42.290]  Well, and I don't think they could have planned quite as much for the adversarial entities to be in this country and, dare I say, in the White House.
[37:43.530 --> 37:43.970]  Yeah.
[37:43.970 --> 37:46.270]  And now he's out of a job.
[37:46.350 --> 37:48.490]  And I think he's going out on a good note.
[37:48.610 --> 37:55.650]  I don't know why people are so afraid to lose their jobs when the boss is only going to be around for another few weeks.
[37:55.970 --> 37:57.990]  It seems like that's a badge of honor.
[37:58.090 --> 38:00.010]  And Chris Krebs certainly is wearing that now.
[38:00.150 --> 38:02.030]  And as I said, the website is still there.
[38:02.030 --> 38:08.630]  www.cisa.gov, C-I-S-A.gov, and slash rumor control has this address directly.
[38:09.290 --> 38:12.430]  He can't go into security, though, because there already is a Krebs on security.
[38:12.550 --> 38:13.270]  There can't be another one.
[38:13.570 --> 38:16.350]  So maybe they can partner up or something like that.
[38:16.590 --> 38:16.990]  Go ahead, Rob.
[38:18.170 --> 38:18.530]  Yeah.
[38:18.690 --> 38:19.310]  I'm Chris Krebs.
[38:19.950 --> 38:21.510]  His Twitter account is still up, too.
[38:21.570 --> 38:25.210]  I don't know if he'll be able to keep using it now that he's no longer employed.
[38:25.210 --> 38:28.690]  But it's Cisa Krebs, where the avatar is very cute.
[38:28.850 --> 38:34.310]  It's him dressed as Captain America with a Cisa logo in place of the star on his chest and wearing a mask, which is a nice touch.
[38:34.510 --> 38:37.970]  But his final tweet on that account to date was yesterday.
[38:38.230 --> 38:40.690]  He tweeted and quote tweeting our friend Matt Blaze.
[38:41.130 --> 38:47.230]  He said, in case you missed it on allegations that election systems were manipulated, 59 election security experts all agree.
[38:47.370 --> 38:52.510]  In every case of which we are aware, these claims either have been unsubstantiated or are technically incoherent.
[38:52.870 --> 38:54.250]  Well, I really love that.
[38:54.250 --> 38:56.250]  Alex, one more point from you then to Jason.
[38:56.850 --> 38:57.690]  Yeah, sure.
[38:57.910 --> 39:03.330]  I mean, look, I think falling in line and towing the party line should never be a condition of government employment.
[39:03.610 --> 39:06.430]  Ignoring truth, spreading falsehoods, conspiracy theories.
[39:06.630 --> 39:14.110]  That's what he was expected to do about one of our nation's most sacred practices, the election of the president of the United States.
[39:14.310 --> 39:18.790]  Even turning a blind eye to something like that should never be a condition of employment.
[39:18.790 --> 39:34.930]  I mean, look, to the contrary, Chris Krebs, and I've made this point before, and as all government employees do, whether you're an entry level recruit in, you know, something like the Department of Agriculture or the president of the United States, you take the same oath of federal office.
[39:34.930 --> 39:43.210]  And that oath requires you to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
[39:43.530 --> 39:53.410]  I think, and I feel very strongly about this, that by standing his ground against the president, I believe that Chris Krebs faithfully and dutifully held true to that oath.
[39:54.010 --> 39:54.550]  I'm done.
[39:54.910 --> 39:59.610]  Jason, how many dead people voted in your election, in your voting area?
[39:59.810 --> 40:02.190]  None that I noticed.
[40:02.430 --> 40:03.090]  None that I noticed.
[40:04.790 --> 40:08.070]  So, yeah, I don't want you to run into any time issues.
[40:08.190 --> 40:09.750]  So I'll go into this very quickly.
[40:09.870 --> 40:10.670]  So here's what happens.
[40:11.730 --> 40:13.750]  First of all, I had to go through...
[40:14.170 --> 40:16.090]  There were two different kinds of training.
[40:16.330 --> 40:18.610]  I went through one because I had gone through the training before.
[40:18.610 --> 40:20.870]  So it's kind of like being in an airline.
[40:21.030 --> 40:22.110]  You have to go through training.
[40:22.330 --> 40:23.470]  So you go through a couple hours.
[40:23.690 --> 40:27.330]  So they walk you through all of the contingencies that may come in.
[40:27.490 --> 40:37.250]  The idea being, and this is made clear, that you are trying to help the most people vote as they should in the region where they live.
[40:37.250 --> 40:41.630]  And so for most people, they are registered.
[40:41.870 --> 40:45.010]  They come in to where they're told to go in the mail.
[40:46.510 --> 40:48.270]  They verify who they are.
[40:48.310 --> 40:49.290]  And I'll mention that in a moment.
[40:49.490 --> 40:50.550]  And then they vote.
[40:50.790 --> 40:55.890]  And then there are people for whom just, you know, they're discombobulated.
[40:56.950 --> 41:00.650]  And their registration has gone out.
[41:00.790 --> 41:03.370]  You know, like it's either expired or rolled out.
[41:03.370 --> 41:06.630]  Or they made some sort of mistake.
[41:06.850 --> 41:09.310]  Sometimes it's as simple as they came to the wrong building.
[41:09.650 --> 41:10.690]  And you have a...
[41:10.690 --> 41:15.710]  It's now to the point that you can actually print out a little map and say, here's where you actually need to go.
[41:16.530 --> 41:18.530]  That happened about 12 times.
[41:20.050 --> 41:23.990]  So what happens is the person waits in line and they come up.
[41:24.210 --> 41:28.590]  And something that I do, because I'm just proud of it, is they'll start to go for their wallet.
[41:29.750 --> 41:31.550]  And I'll be like, we're not taking ID.
[41:31.910 --> 41:34.770]  We don't take, you know, we don't have to show your ID to vote.
[41:34.930 --> 41:36.430]  We have to verify who you are.
[41:36.570 --> 41:37.250]  So who are you?
[41:37.410 --> 41:38.350]  They tell us their name.
[41:38.550 --> 41:39.890]  And I go, what street are you on?
[41:39.990 --> 41:40.790]  They tell me what street.
[41:41.010 --> 41:42.590]  And I have a little system in front of me.
[41:42.670 --> 41:43.870]  And I put that information in.
[41:43.990 --> 41:44.910]  And there they are.
[41:45.030 --> 41:46.150]  And I say, this is the person.
[41:47.190 --> 41:50.670]  I flip the iPad to them.
[41:51.170 --> 41:53.050]  They use that little pen.
[41:53.490 --> 41:55.890]  They sign that they are who they are.
[41:55.890 --> 42:02.330]  You know, they're basically signing a agreement on penalty of, you know, a felony that they are who they say they are.
[42:02.510 --> 42:03.690]  They flip it back.
[42:03.810 --> 42:05.430]  And then there's two of us at the table.
[42:05.650 --> 42:08.230]  We look at the signature that's in the records.
[42:08.470 --> 42:09.690]  We compare it.
[42:10.230 --> 42:11.790]  And you'd be surprised.
[42:11.950 --> 42:14.870]  People, it's pretty consistent, you know, signatures.
[42:15.190 --> 42:17.910]  We both agree with a little check mark.
[42:18.130 --> 42:20.170]  This person is eligible to vote.
[42:20.750 --> 42:24.150]  And then we mark them in a paper log.
[42:24.150 --> 42:24.630]  Okay.
[42:24.650 --> 42:26.330]  Can I just ask you one question before we move on?
[42:26.690 --> 42:29.430]  Did you encounter anybody whose signature did not match?
[42:30.310 --> 42:35.410]  There were some people for whom their signatures were more messed up, but not in like a weird way.
[42:35.530 --> 42:37.190]  Like it was structured the same.
[42:37.310 --> 42:40.510]  You could tell like some of them were written hastily versions.
[42:42.210 --> 42:44.690]  The vast, vast majority were exactly the same.
[42:44.690 --> 42:52.630]  And usually with a person, you can ask another piece of information, which we try to avoid, but I can be like, and what year were you born?
[42:52.850 --> 42:53.090]  Uh-huh.
[42:53.410 --> 42:54.430]  And they'll know.
[42:54.690 --> 42:57.930]  Like they can correlate against all the information that's in the system.
[42:58.850 --> 43:07.730]  So we write down their name on a piece of paper, actually, you know, a log book to say we have given, this person came in, and here's their name.
[43:07.850 --> 43:10.150]  And we gave them a paper.
[43:10.350 --> 43:12.750]  And then we hand them a paper ballot.
[43:12.750 --> 43:15.610]  And they fill out the paper ballot with circles.
[43:16.610 --> 43:25.310]  And then they go over to a machine where two people, one from each party is sitting near it, and they put it in.
[43:25.530 --> 43:32.370]  And the system tells them that it was fine, or if it ran into an error, and it runs into an error, they come back.
[43:32.510 --> 43:41.050]  And we have to do something called spoiling the vote, which is where the person who didn't, who did the, who filled it out has to write spoiled on both sides.
[43:41.050 --> 43:44.270]  We put it into an envelope so that it's, you know, kept.
[43:44.510 --> 43:47.490]  And then we hand them a new piece of paper.
[43:47.730 --> 43:50.490]  So, like, there's all these systems in place.
[43:50.630 --> 43:56.010]  Like, you've got to really be focused to do a fake vote, and not be who you are.
[43:56.190 --> 44:04.370]  We did have one guy who, he showed up, and I have to say, only because I remember him.
[44:04.730 --> 44:08.670]  He showed up, you know, 20s, 30s.
[44:08.670 --> 44:10.910]  And he just said, now look, I already voted.
[44:11.390 --> 44:15.210]  But I just wanted to see if the system shows me as having voted.
[44:15.950 --> 44:16.310]  Wow.
[44:16.630 --> 44:17.990]  And I'm like, okay.
[44:18.410 --> 44:23.890]  And what was great was that one of the election commissioners was sitting there, and he had no idea that she was, like, standing nearby.
[44:24.010 --> 44:26.950]  And she kind of gives me this side eye, like, hmm, okay.
[44:27.930 --> 44:30.630]  And I put in his name, and it says he's voted.
[44:30.710 --> 44:31.790]  And I go, I'm sorry, sir.
[44:31.830 --> 44:33.090]  We can't have you voting yet.
[44:33.090 --> 44:34.770]  I show right here that you voted already.
[44:34.930 --> 44:36.010]  He goes, okay, great.
[44:36.170 --> 44:37.030]  And he walked out.
[44:38.030 --> 44:38.430]  Now...
[44:38.950 --> 44:40.750]  That could have been social engineering, couldn't it?
[44:41.090 --> 44:42.390]  It could have been social engineering.
[44:42.670 --> 44:43.630]  It could have been curiosity.
[44:43.770 --> 44:45.470]  It could have been that he was told to.
[44:45.770 --> 44:46.950]  He definitely didn't...
[44:48.390 --> 44:56.890]  He definitely didn't couch it in terms of, like, now I know you folks have screwed this up, or I'll bet your system's broken.
[44:56.890 --> 45:00.250]  This was like, hey, look, just for my own whatever.
[45:00.470 --> 45:01.830]  Does it show me having voted?
[45:02.350 --> 45:09.390]  And it was like, okay, you were willing to stand in line for 45 minutes to see if you were already voting?
[45:09.470 --> 45:09.810]  Okay.
[45:09.810 --> 45:14.210]  Was this somebody who had voted mail-in, or had been there earlier in the day?
[45:15.750 --> 45:19.750]  This would have been somebody, just because from his face I can tell.
[45:20.170 --> 45:23.550]  This would have been somebody who either did early voting or mail-in voting.
[45:23.690 --> 45:23.830]  Okay.
[45:23.830 --> 45:24.690]  It doesn't show.
[45:24.910 --> 45:31.570]  So they could have gone to where the early polling stations were the previous week and voted.
[45:31.810 --> 45:35.650]  So, yeah, that was like the one person who was like weirdly testing the system.
[45:35.870 --> 45:45.410]  I was told that apparently somebody came to one of the other buildings and
[45:55.490 --> 46:02.050]  expecting the polls for fraud and was taking pictures of everybody with phones.
[46:02.050 --> 46:07.130]  And they told him to leave so he kept taking photos through windows.
[46:07.550 --> 46:08.030]  Wow.
[46:08.210 --> 46:26.910]  And so the police came and he claimed he was working on the authority of the Board of Elections, which was a really good way to infuriate people from the Board of Elections because the guy who came in to tell us about this, to warn us off, was shaking like he was so angry.
[46:27.450 --> 46:33.550]  And we had two security guys kind of just hanging out after that.
[46:33.550 --> 46:44.990]  But I mean, literally, like low key, you know, we're not talking badge gun, whatever, just two guys who kind of sat in the hallway, like, whatever, but they were actually security.
[46:44.990 --> 46:46.570]  And I think they were school security.
[46:47.150 --> 46:49.590]  Just, just in case somebody was going to cause trouble.
[46:49.710 --> 46:50.430]  And nobody did.
[46:50.590 --> 46:51.230]  Nobody visited.
[46:51.390 --> 46:51.690]  No, whatever.
[46:51.830 --> 46:53.790]  We, we never experienced that where we are.
[46:55.010 --> 47:00.730]  We only have a couple of minutes left, but let me just ask you, uh, did, uh, did you have, uh, inspectors there as well?
[47:00.790 --> 47:02.770]  One from the Republicans, one from the Democrats?
[47:03.650 --> 47:04.710]  Well, yeah, I was one of them.
[47:05.030 --> 47:05.390]  Okay.
[47:05.490 --> 47:05.830]  I see.
[47:07.050 --> 47:16.710]  So technically what's going on is I'm an inspector for one party and there's an inspector from the other party and the two of us sit there and both of us sign off on voters.
[47:16.930 --> 47:18.950]  Is there ever an inspector from a third party?
[47:21.550 --> 47:24.370]  Um, I'm not qualified to know.
[47:24.650 --> 47:25.530]  I have no idea.
[47:25.750 --> 47:26.630]  Rob, you have an answer to that?
[47:27.490 --> 47:27.930]  Yeah.
[47:28.150 --> 47:31.410]  Um, I was a poll worker, uh, about nine, 10 years ago.
[47:31.630 --> 47:32.850]  Um, it was not a major election.
[47:32.850 --> 47:34.390]  It was a very chill experience.
[47:34.650 --> 47:39.430]  And of course it was in the pre COVID days, but, um, I am not registered with the party.
[47:39.430 --> 47:43.930]  So I was assigned to be the, uh, observer for the Republican party.
[47:44.190 --> 47:50.250]  So technically I was working on behalf of them as their observer, um, because they needed somebody to fill that position.
[47:50.250 --> 47:53.030]  And I was there and I was, uh, ready to do it.
[47:53.050 --> 47:54.330]  They'll just take anybody, huh?
[47:55.470 --> 47:55.770]  Wow.
[47:55.990 --> 47:57.870]  They'll just take anyone as Jason and I know.
[47:58.290 --> 48:00.870]  Yeah, that was, that was certainly the case with me.
[48:01.010 --> 48:02.190]  I'm, I'm, I'm not affiliated.
[48:02.270 --> 48:04.090]  So I was working on one side.
[48:04.090 --> 48:11.830]  Um, but the, uh, I mean, again, the whole system, uh, Emmanuel is fascinating.
[48:12.090 --> 48:21.930]  Like all of this, like, uh, and again, I don't know how much this will land with people, but playing a part in civics is pretty rewarding.
[48:23.230 --> 48:34.410]  Like, you fit, you really get a vision for like how society works and how civilization works and what, you know, what's done clunkily and what isn't.
[48:34.510 --> 48:41.930]  I had to give, um, me, me, me, you know, Jason Scott had to give like a dozen oaths.
[48:42.850 --> 48:54.370]  Like I had to make people raise their hand and give an oath because they were assisting somebody who was having trouble reading or didn't speak the language or was a elderly relative.
[48:54.690 --> 48:59.110]  And I had to make them, you know, give an oath saying I'm just helping this person.
[48:59.110 --> 49:00.790]  I will not influence their vote.
[49:00.930 --> 49:02.090]  I will not vote for them.
[49:02.250 --> 49:04.450]  They are to indicate to me what they want to do.
[49:04.590 --> 49:06.730]  You know, like, so that was interesting.
[49:06.730 --> 49:12.950]  I did not, if you would talk to teenage hacker me and said, Oh, you'll be issuing oaths when you're 50.
[49:13.530 --> 49:14.890]  I don't think I would have believed yet.
[49:15.350 --> 49:27.870]  So it's, I can not, I mean, it sounds like I'm just blowing smoke here, but I can not, uh, encourage, uh, uh, being a part of like these kinds of operations and situations enough.
[49:28.090 --> 49:34.950]  Like it really gives you a sense of being anchored and grounded in society and they pay you.
[49:34.950 --> 49:41.630]  You know, another person would be bitter at having a contracted COVID-19 during this.
[49:41.990 --> 49:43.550]  You see the value in it.
[49:43.670 --> 49:46.930]  And, um, it's just, it truly is inspirational.
[49:47.210 --> 49:53.850]  And I hope a lot of other people in, in future elections that hopefully don't have pandemics attached to them, um, will be a part of this.
[49:53.930 --> 49:55.170]  I think you can be as young as 16.
[49:55.530 --> 49:59.750]  Uh, and, um, it's, it's, it's a very valuable experience, uh, nationwide.
[49:59.750 --> 50:08.290]  Hey, there is another, uh, election coming up, uh, January 5th in Georgia, probably the most important election, uh, since the last most important election.
[50:08.370 --> 50:15.350]  But this will determine the, um, uh, how, what direction the Senate goes in, whether Mitch McConnell will be running the country or Joe Biden.
[50:15.550 --> 50:18.190]  Uh, election day, as I said, is January 5th.
[50:18.370 --> 50:20.770]  Now, if you didn't vote, of course, you have to be a Georgia resident.
[50:20.770 --> 50:25.090]  If you didn't vote in the November 3rd election, you can still vote in the January 5th runoff.
[50:25.090 --> 50:27.670]  You just need to make sure you're registered to vote.
[50:27.810 --> 50:31.450]  And the deadline for that to register to vote for the runoff is December 7th.
[50:31.810 --> 50:35.050]  And early voting starts on December 14th.
[50:35.150 --> 50:36.830]  And you can request an absentee ballot.
[50:37.190 --> 50:42.930]  Uh, deadline to request one is December 31st by, uh, 4.30 PM.
[50:43.530 --> 50:47.830]  Uh, I don't have the place to request it, but if you're in Georgia, you can probably figure that out.
[50:47.990 --> 50:50.710]  And, uh, we have some time to talk about that in the weeks ahead.
[50:51.050 --> 50:53.130]  Closing remarks before we, uh, sign off for the night.
[50:54.790 --> 50:55.270]  No?
[50:56.230 --> 50:56.710]  Well...
[50:56.710 --> 50:56.850]  Rob?
[50:57.330 --> 50:58.170]  Go ahead, Jason.
[50:58.390 --> 50:58.750]  And then Rob.
[50:59.370 --> 51:02.170]  I was just gonna say, uh, I really encourage.
[51:02.390 --> 51:03.230]  Stay engaged.
[51:03.470 --> 51:04.130]  Stay interested.
[51:04.750 --> 51:08.890]  Uh, I know some people will think that they've done one thing and they're done.
[51:09.190 --> 51:16.890]  But maybe use the last four years as a hint to kind of pay attention and get involved in things.
[51:17.010 --> 51:22.550]  However you want to get involved, I think, I think there's nothing but reward for you doing that.
[51:22.550 --> 51:22.930]  All right.
[51:23.030 --> 51:23.910]  Thank you so much, Jason.
[51:24.250 --> 51:25.570]  And, and best, uh, best wishes.
[51:25.750 --> 51:28.650]  We're gonna, uh, uh, keep track of you and make sure you're okay.
[51:29.010 --> 51:29.750]  Rob, quickly?
[51:30.770 --> 51:31.710]  Um, quickly, yes.
[51:31.830 --> 51:38.890]  Thanksgiving in-person is canceled, but, uh, for those of you observing it yourselves or virtually with, uh, friends or family, you know, have a happy one.
[51:39.210 --> 51:39.550]  Absolutely.
[51:40.230 --> 51:41.830]  Uh, we'll be back, uh, not next week.
[51:41.930 --> 51:42.450]  We're off next week.
[51:42.550 --> 51:43.530]  We're back in two weeks.
[51:43.530 --> 51:44.370]  Write to us.
[51:44.590 --> 51:47.770]  O-T-H at 2,600.com.
[51:49.250 --> 51:50.210]  We'll see you in two weeks.
[51:50.330 --> 51:50.510]  Good night.
[51:55.940 --> 51:57.340]  Bye.
[51:58.900 --> 52:16.620]  See you in two weeks.
[52:17.240 --> 52:18.120]  Bye.
[52:21.980 --> 52:34.500]  You may need to vomit, but you can't get out of bed.
[52:35.000 --> 52:40.600]  You may think that bells are ringing loudly in your head.
[52:41.160 --> 52:46.760]  You may get the drops or maybe doubled up in pain.
[52:47.140 --> 52:51.820]  You may get so sick that you'll not get sick.
[52:53.080 --> 53:00.040]  You may give your sickness to your family and friends, and it goes on.