[00:20.730 --> 00:24.050]  Okay, seem like the problem has been fixed.
[00:24.510 --> 00:27.430]  So it is now five minutes past 7 p.m.
[00:27.550 --> 00:30.490]  Stay tuned for Off the Hook coming up.
[00:30.970 --> 00:32.850]  And it's time for Off the Hook.
[02:17.530 --> 02:20.150]  Well, that was a rough landing.
[02:23.540 --> 02:24.620]  But we made it.
[02:24.920 --> 02:25.520]  We landed.
[02:25.920 --> 02:27.020]  It's Off the Hook.
[02:27.380 --> 02:28.840]  Back again after a couple of weeks.
[02:29.540 --> 02:30.420]  Emmanuel over here.
[02:30.580 --> 02:31.560]  Kyle over there.
[02:32.160 --> 02:32.760]  Yes.
[02:33.100 --> 02:36.480]  And in Skype-land, let's see who we have.
[02:36.700 --> 02:38.420]  We have Rob T. Firefly.
[02:39.660 --> 02:40.640]  Good evening.
[02:40.960 --> 02:41.480]  We have Gila.
[02:42.240 --> 02:42.580]  Hello.
[02:42.580 --> 02:43.820]  And we have Alex.
[02:44.840 --> 02:45.360]  Good evening.
[02:46.920 --> 02:47.720]  Well, okay.
[02:47.720 --> 02:50.680]  So we are plodding along here.
[02:51.520 --> 02:52.880]  Boy, I can't wait till this is over.
[02:52.960 --> 02:54.200]  I can't wait till we're back in the studio.
[02:54.200 --> 02:59.840]  We don't have to worry about what the phone company is going to do to our connection week after week.
[03:00.020 --> 03:00.780]  No explanation.
[03:01.060 --> 03:02.380]  I hate things that have no explanation.
[03:03.800 --> 03:04.840]  We're getting closer, though.
[03:05.100 --> 03:06.420]  We've all been vaccinated now.
[03:07.000 --> 03:12.160]  And in a few weeks, we'll all be considered completely immune, which is nice for however long that lasts.
[03:12.580 --> 03:17.240]  And we can maybe meet in person, maybe actually go to the radio station again.
[03:17.600 --> 03:18.140]  Wouldn't that be nice?
[03:19.180 --> 03:20.440]  That would be delightful.
[03:20.700 --> 03:22.100]  I mean, today is our day.
[03:22.360 --> 03:25.660]  As listeners know, we had our second shot two weeks ago.
[03:25.840 --> 03:28.340]  Two weeks is the time that you need to cook up your antibodies.
[03:28.580 --> 03:34.160]  And so today, we have officially come out the other side of this vaccination process, Gila and I.
[03:34.160 --> 03:36.400]  So you can go running out on the street and do whatever you want.
[03:36.760 --> 03:38.840]  Hey, I went out with one mask on today.
[03:39.160 --> 03:39.520]  Okay.
[03:39.740 --> 03:40.040]  All right.
[03:40.120 --> 03:41.080]  That's a step.
[03:41.240 --> 03:43.900]  I've been double masking for a couple of months, but I only wore one today.
[03:45.500 --> 03:46.200]  Big moment.
[03:46.960 --> 03:50.900]  And Alex, I think you're past your immunity date, right?
[03:51.000 --> 03:52.940]  You're completely covered now?
[03:53.420 --> 03:54.380]  That is correct.
[03:54.400 --> 03:57.220]  I got my second shot about three weeks ago.
[03:57.320 --> 03:59.000]  So I'm good to go.
[03:59.680 --> 04:05.140]  But like you, I'm wondering when the immunity will wear off.
[04:05.260 --> 04:07.680]  I mean, we don't really know anything about that right now.
[04:07.800 --> 04:13.880]  But I think there's been some studies that suggest that the Pfizer vaccine is at least effective for six months.
[04:13.880 --> 04:27.300]  But it's interesting, too, if you look at the vaccination cards, when I got my second shot, one of the administrative women there had told me, you know, you may be tempted to laminate this for posterity.
[04:27.460 --> 04:31.420]  Don't laminate it, because if you look, there's already, you know, there's four spots there.
[04:31.740 --> 04:35.840]  And she told me that, you know, you have to realize Moderna is already working on a booster shot.
[04:35.980 --> 04:37.720]  There'll probably be some kind of booster in the fall.
[04:38.880 --> 04:39.280]  So...
[04:39.280 --> 04:41.360]  But Alex, you can get another card.
[04:41.680 --> 04:42.680]  I think it's better.
[04:42.680 --> 04:44.540]  You know, I've had this conversation.
[04:44.540 --> 04:47.320]  I think it's better to laminate them after your second dose.
[04:47.840 --> 04:50.860]  Don't do it before then, because the second dose comes fairly soon after the first one.
[04:51.740 --> 04:57.200]  But it's quite possible you could spill something on it, or the ink could wear off, or all sorts of things could happen.
[04:57.440 --> 04:58.960]  I don't see the harm in laminating it.
[04:59.060 --> 05:02.380]  And then when you go for that booster, say, hey, look, I laminated my car.
[05:02.480 --> 05:03.240]  I can't get another one.
[05:03.860 --> 05:04.900]  Nobody's going to refuse you.
[05:05.960 --> 05:08.100]  You know, you're probably right about that.
[05:08.100 --> 05:12.600]  I mean, I don't have the same, you know, set of worries as you do.
[05:12.680 --> 05:17.400]  Or I probably have a lot fewer things in my house that are laminated as well.
[05:18.040 --> 05:19.960]  There's no worry about that.
[05:20.880 --> 05:26.360]  I think the best thing to do with your card is to scan it or take a photo.
[05:26.360 --> 05:35.320]  But I would scan it, crop that, and get it to your primary health care provider so that it's in your medical records.
[05:35.580 --> 05:36.840]  That's a nice place to put it.
[05:36.920 --> 05:38.380]  And be sure to post it on your Facebook page.
[05:38.460 --> 05:39.140]  No, don't do that.
[05:39.300 --> 05:40.100]  Do not do that.
[05:40.420 --> 05:42.080]  That is the dumbest idea ever.
[05:42.140 --> 05:43.920]  That is how you lose your identity completely.
[05:44.480 --> 05:45.380]  People are doing that.
[05:45.480 --> 05:47.180]  No, don't share that information.
[05:47.180 --> 05:48.100]  That's private.
[05:48.960 --> 05:51.060]  What do you guys think of the whole...
[05:51.860 --> 05:53.440]  I've been hearing debate about this.
[05:53.620 --> 05:54.280]  It's being called Orwellian.
[05:55.300 --> 06:04.340]  And seeing as how I've named myself after a character in an Orwell book, it strikes me as strange if I don't agree that something is Orwellian.
[06:04.460 --> 06:05.200]  But I don't.
[06:05.200 --> 06:18.120]  This whole idea of a vaccine passport, I think it's not a bad thing to have to be able to prove that you are, in fact, safe to enter places with large amounts of people.
[06:19.400 --> 06:21.140]  Anybody care to disagree with that?
[06:22.460 --> 06:35.200]  I don't want to disagree with it, but what I will say is that we went a little bonkers getting ready to get vaccinated and we bought buttons that said, I got my vaccine, and we have pins that say, I got my vaccine.
[06:35.240 --> 06:37.880]  But you can get those if you have $5.
[06:38.220 --> 06:38.380]  Yeah.
[06:38.580 --> 06:48.120]  So while I am annoyed that today is two weeks since our last dose, today is antibodies day and my Excelsior pass will not load.
[06:48.420 --> 06:50.800]  I cannot get my Excelsior pass yet.
[06:50.800 --> 06:53.580]  Now, the Excelsior pass is the New York State system.
[06:53.740 --> 07:00.480]  That's what you digitally tie into that with your smartphone, and you get... what are you supposed to get?
[07:01.080 --> 07:05.460]  You're supposed to get a QR code that you can scan to go into places.
[07:05.460 --> 07:10.000]  You can also theoretically download... you can get it on the website without downloading the app.
[07:10.060 --> 07:15.220]  You can print out your QR code, thus having your Excelsior pass without having your smartphone.
[07:15.600 --> 07:17.780]  But we can't get ours.
[07:17.780 --> 07:22.720]  Although, I'm willing to say, I had to prove I had certain numbers of shots to start kindergarten.
[07:23.040 --> 07:27.040]  You have to prove you have specific immunizations to go certain places.
[07:27.040 --> 07:34.640]  I do not understand what the issue is with having to have this same sort of...
[07:40.620 --> 07:42.960]  Sorry, QAnon is blocking you.
[07:43.080 --> 07:46.040]  You're going to have to speak a little bit more forcefully to get through the block.
[07:46.600 --> 07:47.440]  Oh, no.
[07:47.880 --> 07:48.620]  Oh, no.
[07:48.840 --> 07:57.880]  No, I was saying I don't think it's Orwellian, but I also put a little pin on my purse that says vaccinated right next to the one that says cancer survivor.
[07:57.880 --> 07:59.320]  So, there you go.
[07:59.840 --> 08:06.500]  Well, again, you know, I see people arguing, but it's the same people who are arguing everything.
[08:06.500 --> 08:08.340]  They're arguing about masks.
[08:08.500 --> 08:11.440]  They're arguing about the seriousness of the virus.
[08:11.720 --> 08:17.300]  Honestly, I think some of these Republican governors can be considered advocates for the virus.
[08:18.800 --> 08:25.380]  If I didn't know better, I would swear that they are defending the virus and want it to prevail.
[08:25.640 --> 08:49.980]  Because how else do you explain, if you're in charge of a state, of people, of citizens who listen to you, how do you explain telling them, don't wear your masks, go back to baseball games and congregate, and we will pass laws to make it illegal to ask you to prove that you had the vaccine to gather in groups of people.
[08:50.280 --> 09:05.120]  And just a whole horde of other ridiculous positions that don't make any sense when you just look at the facts, you look at the science, and you look at the horrible, horrible numbers that we have dealt with over the past year.
[09:05.120 --> 09:30.500]  And that is something... I think we need to move past the shock stage and into the get-out-of-the-way stage, where we basically use common sense and follow the science and stop listening to this misplaced emotion right now, which it's really holding us back.
[09:30.720 --> 09:32.640]  Alex, looks like you have something you want to say.
[09:32.640 --> 09:33.480]  Yeah.
[09:33.820 --> 09:47.300]  And, you know, I think you're simplifying it in a way that maybe could be considered an oversimplification, Emanuel, because I think this is more of a... there's historical issues here.
[09:47.500 --> 09:51.580]  I think there's issues of personal autonomy at issue.
[09:51.800 --> 09:58.040]  But look, I want to preface my response here by saying I agree with you entirely that I think common sense and science should prevail.
[09:58.040 --> 10:18.040]  But what we're talking about here is something I think that is much deeper and more philosophical and also a legal concept as well, which is this issue of the autonomy that you have over your own body, the right to your own body to determine what goes in and what goes on it and what comes out of it as well,
[10:18.180 --> 10:18.240]  right?
[10:18.480 --> 10:20.120]  Alex, can I treat you like you disagree?
[10:20.340 --> 10:22.680]  Because I want to jump on these points as you make them.
[10:22.680 --> 10:25.240]  Okay, you want the right to your own body?
[10:25.340 --> 10:26.100]  Okay, fine.
[10:26.300 --> 10:28.380]  But just keep it away from my body.
[10:28.480 --> 10:29.040]  How about that?
[10:29.160 --> 10:34.400]  You know, you can do whatever you want, but you don't have to expose other people to your foolishness.
[10:34.700 --> 10:52.000]  Well, the issue I'm setting up here is that there is a tension between the rights we have over our own bonds, our own personal autonomy, which is a matter of freedom, as opposed to the duty that we have to others, the duty that we have to safeguard third parties,
[10:52.100 --> 10:52.180]  right?
[10:52.180 --> 10:53.620]  And this is not an easy issue.
[10:53.800 --> 11:00.280]  And if you look at the history of vaccines in this country, they were forced upon a lot of immigrant populations 100 years ago.
[11:00.500 --> 11:01.440]  It was not a pretty scene.
[11:02.000 --> 11:06.480]  You know, vaccines 100 years ago, I'm not saying at all that that's the scene that we have right now.
[11:06.600 --> 11:09.140]  And like I said, I think common sense should prevail.
[11:09.600 --> 11:19.020]  But I think historically, to play the devil's advocate, and we are talking about Republicans, Republican governors here, so quite literally, I'm playing the devil's advocate here.
[11:19.020 --> 11:35.420]  I think they are basing these types of objections on, I think, broader philosophical objections, broader libertarian-focused objections that don't necessarily take into account that duty to others.
[11:35.500 --> 11:39.500]  They are focusing their argument entirely on personal autonomy.
[11:39.660 --> 11:44.300]  Can I ask how that personal autonomy ties into undocumented people in this country?
[11:44.320 --> 11:47.340]  Because they sure seem to want to find out everything they can about them.
[11:48.460 --> 11:49.500]  Yeah, okay.
[11:50.020 --> 11:50.480]  Certainly.
[11:50.900 --> 11:53.400]  But, I mean, look, these are difficult issues.
[11:53.620 --> 11:54.700]  They really, really are here.
[11:54.860 --> 12:03.380]  But, you know, like Gila mentions as well, you know, vaccines and requirements for vaccines have been in place for a very, very long time.
[12:03.380 --> 12:08.780]  I can't send my son to public school in New York without proving that he has certain vaccines.
[12:09.420 --> 12:15.820]  And so I think, you know, to a certain extent, there is already a form of vaccine passport in action.
[12:16.200 --> 12:29.120]  But what I would be concerned about, just from a personal liberty standpoint, would be having different social strata or sections of society based on who's vaccinated and who is not.
[12:29.320 --> 12:39.360]  And so I think that certain things should be allowed to people who are vaccinated and who chose to get the vaccine, like going to a music venue or a concert, a sporting event, someplace where people congregate.
[12:39.460 --> 12:53.140]  But I think it would be dangerous if there were a vaccine passport that determined whether or not somebody was eligible to go to an ER or to have certain basic services and rights that would otherwise be given to vaccinated people as well.
[12:53.240 --> 12:55.460]  Well, I don't think that's what's been brought up.
[12:55.460 --> 13:06.360]  I think it's basically to get in, you know, a store owner, for instance, does he not have the right to say, I'd rather not have people who are not vaccinated come into the store and, you know, without masks or whatever.
[13:07.220 --> 13:09.560]  I think someone should have the right to make that decision.
[13:09.660 --> 13:20.260]  But just to get back to your personal philosophy of Republicans about personal autonomy, why doesn't that apply to women's bodies, right, with the right to abortion?
[13:20.260 --> 13:28.320]  Why doesn't it apply to trans youth where they pass ridiculous laws to limit what they can and cannot do with their own bodies?
[13:28.680 --> 13:30.440]  You know, it's so hypocritical.
[13:30.580 --> 13:35.600]  And I know you don't agree with what you're saying, but my God, it's just...
[13:35.600 --> 13:39.260]  I wish I had somebody to disagree with violently because it really is something...
[13:39.260 --> 13:40.080]  I know, Gila, you have something to say.
[13:40.160 --> 13:40.400]  Go ahead.
[13:40.940 --> 13:41.840]  I do, I do.
[13:42.060 --> 13:47.500]  I was thinking, and I apologize if this is an overblown metaphor.
[13:47.500 --> 13:49.420]  I just want to say that before I start.
[13:49.620 --> 14:02.300]  But I was thinking about another virus and the community response to said virus, say, 35 years ago.
[14:02.560 --> 14:11.460]  There was, you should pardon me for this reference, an episode of Designing Women that was entitled Killing All the Right People.
[14:12.140 --> 14:22.960]  People were not willing to take precautions against HIV because they didn't think that their lives would let them get it, but the right people were getting it.
[14:23.040 --> 14:37.000]  And if your belief is that this virus, which is disproportionately affecting people of lower income brackets, people of color, immigrants, people who were incarcerated, if you think those people should be dying, you don't care.
[14:37.760 --> 14:41.540]  And I think that is what is really inspiring a lot of people.
[14:41.640 --> 14:49.240]  And if you're talking about Republican governors, Sarah Palin, a couple of weeks ago, said, I didn't think this was real, and then I got it, and now I'm saying...
[14:50.980 --> 14:52.720]  I'm sorry, QAnon's striking again.
[14:53.000 --> 14:53.620]  What is...
[14:53.620 --> 14:56.540]  And I never thought I'd say this, but what did Sarah Palin say?
[14:57.300 --> 14:59.600]  Sarah Palin said she got COVID.
[14:59.600 --> 15:03.440]  And Sarah Palin said, you need to be wearing a mask, and you need to get vaccinated.
[15:03.800 --> 15:04.960]  So it's...
[15:04.960 --> 15:12.820]  And if we're talking about Republican governors, it's this thing where people don't see it until it strikes home for them.
[15:13.000 --> 15:29.460]  And that, I think, is an issue that we've seen in so many different areas, whether it's issues of rights or issues of mostly rights, and that until it applies to you specifically, you don't see the need for it.
[15:31.520 --> 15:33.680]  And, yes, I think I've started to repeat myself.
[15:34.420 --> 15:34.560]  All right.
[15:34.640 --> 15:45.220]  Well, I mean, again, another sentence I thought I'd never say, listen to what Sarah Palin says, because in that particular regard, and Mitch McConnell said the same thing a couple of days ago, people need to get the vaccine.
[15:46.180 --> 15:47.380]  And it is...
[15:47.380 --> 15:52.720]  You know, I don't care who you listen to to get that advice, but you need to hear that advice.
[15:52.720 --> 15:57.680]  And to all our listeners, we hope that you are doing everything you can to get the vaccine.
[15:57.680 --> 16:05.280]  If you have not already, we have our extra overtime show that follows this on YouTube at 8 o'clock.
[16:05.280 --> 16:17.260]  And what we're going to do today is anybody, any listener who wants to call us during that show and ask us how to get a vaccine in their area, we'll help them.
[16:17.380 --> 16:18.640]  We will help them get there.
[16:18.640 --> 16:24.560]  Sarah, if you're having trouble, talk to us, and hopefully you'll feel better about your progress after that.
[16:24.640 --> 16:32.900]  So we'll do our best because we've done fairly well getting the vaccine, finding websites, and just hammering away until we get the desired results.
[16:32.900 --> 16:33.780]  That's what hackers do.
[16:34.420 --> 16:38.280]  So I hope that people in the community, I know people in our community have been doing this.
[16:38.380 --> 16:43.520]  I'm very, very proud of people who have been helping their relatives and neighbors to get appointments.
[16:43.520 --> 16:48.960]  We have to continue doing that because it's still less than 20% of the country has been fully vaccinated.
[16:49.440 --> 16:51.580]  And we need to get that number up over 70.
[16:51.800 --> 16:52.740]  It's going to take months.
[16:52.960 --> 16:54.940]  And boy, do we want this to be over.
[16:55.100 --> 16:57.400]  I mean, I'd love to have a conference this year.
[16:57.500 --> 17:04.800]  I'd love to be able to go back to 2,600 meetings and to go to the radio station, to walk around the city and travel, all those things.
[17:05.020 --> 17:07.460]  But we can't even vaccinate it.
[17:07.540 --> 17:11.640]  We can't do it yet until more people are fully protected.
[17:11.860 --> 17:12.320]  Go ahead, Alex.
[17:13.520 --> 17:17.600]  Speaking of which, yesterday I saw something that gave me a lot of heart.
[17:17.760 --> 17:18.960]  And I hadn't seen this before.
[17:19.120 --> 17:20.060]  It was really extraordinary.
[17:21.580 --> 17:23.900]  I live in the West Village in the city.
[17:24.280 --> 17:26.400]  And I'm walking my dog.
[17:26.680 --> 17:34.900]  And I saw this massive line of people going down 13th Street, starting on 7th Avenue and going down 12th Street.
[17:35.640 --> 17:39.400]  And I said, oh, my God, this is a line of vaccinated people.
[17:39.720 --> 17:41.560]  Or people waiting for the vaccine, rather.
[17:41.560 --> 17:44.000]  And I followed that line.
[17:44.020 --> 17:47.680]  And that line went from, you know, the Lenox Hill Hospital.
[17:47.840 --> 17:49.520]  That's right over there.
[17:49.680 --> 17:52.900]  You know, it used to be St. Vincent's.
[17:52.980 --> 17:54.140]  It used to be a much larger hospital.
[17:54.300 --> 17:56.420]  But, you know, at least there's still something there.
[17:56.540 --> 18:00.080]  But this line stretched from 7th Avenue down 12th Street.
[18:00.320 --> 18:02.720]  And then that's where 12th Street hits Greenwich Ave.
[18:02.720 --> 18:07.440]  It went all the way up Greenwich and then wrapped around into 13th Street.
[18:07.660 --> 18:09.860]  This was a line that it just never ended.
[18:10.060 --> 18:11.200]  And people kept joining it.
[18:11.520 --> 18:12.680]  And it was incredible.
[18:13.160 --> 18:19.280]  And when you looked at the people who were on that line, they weren't octogenarians or septogenarians.
[18:19.480 --> 18:20.320]  These were young people.
[18:20.580 --> 18:22.820]  These were young people that were getting the vaccine.
[18:22.820 --> 18:24.240]  And they were all waiting there socially.
[18:24.520 --> 18:26.120]  It was a pretty extraordinary scene.
[18:26.280 --> 18:27.600]  And it gave me a lot of heart.
[18:27.740 --> 18:28.620]  It gave me a lot of hope.
[18:28.620 --> 18:32.160]  And it makes me think that we're going to get out of this before we know it.
[18:32.260 --> 18:33.380]  Now, this was yesterday?
[18:34.060 --> 18:34.420]  Yesterday.
[18:34.760 --> 18:39.080]  Well, yesterday was the day that people 16 and above qualified in New York.
[18:39.160 --> 18:45.500]  And what your account tells me is that not only did they qualify, but they got appointments for the same day.
[18:46.100 --> 18:47.080]  And that's incredible.
[18:47.820 --> 18:49.040]  Yeah, they very well may have.
[18:49.140 --> 18:51.140]  Because a lot of these people, they were definitely in their 20s.
[18:51.200 --> 18:52.380]  They were definitely in their 30s.
[18:52.420 --> 18:54.820]  It was really awesome to see it.
[18:55.920 --> 18:56.280]  Wow.
[18:56.500 --> 18:57.660]  Well, we've all had our own experience.
[18:57.660 --> 19:02.740]  Now, Kyle, I know you went to a drugstore to get your vaccine in the last week.
[19:02.860 --> 19:06.880]  And that was a very different experience from what many of us went through with crowds of people.
[19:07.020 --> 19:08.960]  There were only a handful of people in the drugstore, right?
[19:09.640 --> 19:12.440]  Yeah, it was totally different than what I imagined.
[19:12.440 --> 19:13.880]  I didn't go in with you.
[19:14.620 --> 19:16.400]  But it was very different.
[19:16.400 --> 19:36.680]  Just more like a small town kind of experience where one part of where normally merchandise would be stocked, they just removed the shelving and put in chairs and dividers and basically had about enough, maybe like 8 to 10 people to do it once.
[19:36.680 --> 19:44.160]  And it really filled up like those appointments were all those chairs were filled by the time my 15 minutes was up.
[19:44.320 --> 19:50.540]  And then I went about my day, had my my card, of course, and was really not a big deal.
[19:50.540 --> 19:57.880]  And similar side effects to like other vaccines or like an allergy shot or something where you have a sore arm.
[19:58.220 --> 20:02.960]  Now, as of April 19th, everybody, every adult in the country will qualify.
[20:03.240 --> 20:09.320]  So that no matter what state you're in, you'll be able to make an appointment for the vaccine.
[20:09.460 --> 20:14.120]  And again, at 8 o'clock, we can help people go through the process if they're having difficulty.
[20:15.100 --> 20:19.160]  The important thing is, though, to take it seriously, to make sure the people around you are taking it seriously.
[20:20.320 --> 20:21.880]  And we can get through this.
[20:22.140 --> 20:23.440]  We can get through this thing.
[20:23.620 --> 20:26.580]  Hopefully by summer, you know, we'll make steady progress.
[20:26.940 --> 20:42.880]  Because, you know, even though we're all on the verge of being completely vaccinated in the two weeks have passed since our second shots, because the vast majority of people still aren't at that stage and because there are variants out there.
[20:43.620 --> 20:50.340]  And a lot of people doing stupid things, a lot of elected officials doing stupid things, it's going to hang around longer.
[20:50.640 --> 20:56.240]  And there's even a chance that a variant will come about that can get past the vaccine.
[20:56.460 --> 21:01.680]  I think of the horror of that, all the work we've done for naught if something like that were to happen.
[21:01.860 --> 21:04.220]  That doesn't happen if you have herd immunity.
[21:04.220 --> 21:16.940]  If you have the majority of people, the vast majority of people who are protected against the virus, well, that'll prevent a variant from taking hold.
[21:17.120 --> 21:21.800]  So getting that vaccine is hugely important, hugely important.
[21:21.980 --> 21:25.180]  And if you have concerns, talk to your doctor.
[21:25.380 --> 21:28.000]  Talk to somebody in the medical profession.
[21:28.000 --> 21:29.060]  Don't just listen to us.
[21:29.200 --> 21:32.340]  Talk to people who do this for a living.
[21:32.640 --> 21:33.960]  Talk to somebody at the pharmacy.
[21:34.300 --> 21:35.760]  There are all kinds of people.
[21:35.800 --> 21:41.020]  If you have a relative who has a medical background, ask your questions.
[21:41.120 --> 21:42.320]  Get your questions answered.
[21:42.460 --> 21:43.260]  Not on Facebook.
[21:43.980 --> 21:46.020]  Not by just typing it into Google.
[21:46.440 --> 21:48.980]  Talk to people who know what they're talking about.
[21:49.080 --> 21:50.320]  That is so important.
[21:52.060 --> 21:52.680]  All right.
[21:52.760 --> 21:55.860]  We have some important things to pass along.
[21:56.160 --> 22:00.460]  As you know, we are here on WBAI, non-commercial radio station.
[22:01.400 --> 22:15.500]  And tonight, Wednesday, April 7th, is the last day to become a WBAI member and be eligible to vote in an upcoming referendum that is going to be very, very important.
[22:15.580 --> 22:16.520]  We're not talking about the referendum.
[22:16.520 --> 22:22.040]  We're talking about becoming a member so that you can have a say in that referendum.
[22:22.440 --> 22:26.980]  That is the important thing to convey to people.
[22:27.340 --> 22:30.960]  The other thing to convey, we have our old phone number back.
[22:31.500 --> 22:31.860]  Yeah.
[22:32.580 --> 22:34.520]  Our old pledge line is...
[22:35.320 --> 22:35.980]  You know what?
[22:36.000 --> 22:38.140]  I don't have it in front of me, but I think I know what it is.
[22:38.360 --> 22:39.880]  Do you guys have it in front of you?
[22:39.960 --> 22:40.620]  Rob, you're nodding.
[22:40.620 --> 22:41.020]  You have it.
[22:41.220 --> 22:42.060]  So you're going to guess?
[22:42.160 --> 22:42.660]  I have it in my head.
[22:42.660 --> 22:43.200]  I don't want to guess.
[22:43.600 --> 22:44.420]  You have it in your head?
[22:45.540 --> 22:47.100]  Then you tell the people what it is.
[22:47.160 --> 22:48.300]  That way, it's your fault if it's wrong.
[22:49.360 --> 22:49.760]  Okay.
[22:49.760 --> 22:58.200]  I will tell you that if you want to help us keep doing what we do, and if you donate at least $25, you can become a BAI member.
[22:58.420 --> 23:02.980]  That is a phone call to 212-209-2950.
[23:03.940 --> 23:04.480]  That's right.
[23:04.600 --> 23:06.440]  212-209-2950.
[23:06.720 --> 23:08.180]  Never thought I'd say that number again.
[23:08.180 --> 23:10.020]  It's so good to have that number back.
[23:10.140 --> 23:12.840]  But that is the number to call to pledge.
[23:12.840 --> 23:21.840]  And if you pledge $25, as Rob said, you will become a voting member of WBAI, and you can become a part of important decision-making processes.
[23:22.160 --> 23:28.740]  And we have some very, very important decisions ahead, ones that will affect the future of this radio station.
[23:28.860 --> 23:32.680]  So if you want to say in that, you need to call before midnight.
[23:33.400 --> 23:36.940]  After midnight, you can't be part of that.
[23:36.940 --> 23:41.920]  You can still support the station, obviously, but you can't be a part of that particular decision.
[23:42.640 --> 23:44.580]  212-209-2950.
[23:44.960 --> 23:47.640]  Or the website, give2wbai.org.
[23:47.880 --> 23:48.640]  Go ahead, Rob.
[23:48.780 --> 23:48.980]  Yes.
[23:49.100 --> 23:55.980]  And we should point out that you can always pledge and make a pledge, a promise to donate money later.
[23:56.140 --> 24:01.740]  But in order to beat this deadline and become a member today, it has to be a donation that you have paid.
[24:01.740 --> 24:12.520]  So you have to immediately pay it with a credit card on the web or on the phone, 212-209-2950, sometime today before midnight, to be eligible to vote in this referendum.
[24:13.020 --> 24:13.460]  Yeah.
[24:13.600 --> 24:17.220]  But, you know, if you do it now, then you don't have to worry about how soon midnight is.
[24:17.300 --> 24:19.560]  Just get it over with and use a credit card.
[24:19.660 --> 24:25.860]  That way, you've completely paid up and you will have a say in the future of WBAI.
[24:26.620 --> 24:36.520]  And if you haven't seen any communication about this, check your spam and make sure you're looking for some of the communications.
[24:36.520 --> 24:42.920]  I just saw a notification about a membership renewal that I might be behind on.
[24:42.920 --> 24:43.380]  Wow.
[24:43.700 --> 24:43.980]  Yeah.
[24:44.380 --> 24:45.060]  How about that?
[24:45.260 --> 24:45.760]  Make sure.
[24:45.900 --> 24:47.800]  And there's a lot of links and information.
[24:47.800 --> 24:50.000]  So there's a huge effort.
[24:50.000 --> 24:51.060]  We want to be a part of that.
[24:51.160 --> 24:55.140]  We want our listeners to continue to be a part of this community radio station.
[24:56.500 --> 25:18.680]  It's, well, I can't say enough about it, but it is such a big deal for you to be able to participate and be a part of this community and this effort to keep free speech in New York alive and our technology and hacking show here alive and full of new information and programming for everyone.
[25:18.680 --> 25:33.120]  Now, when this controversial issue comes up, which it will do, we're happy to talk to people through our email, OTH at 2600.com, about our opinions, but we're not talking about that on the air.
[25:34.040 --> 25:36.080]  And that's just the way it is.
[25:36.360 --> 25:41.640]  But you can be a part of the whole decision-making process, again, by joining the WBAI family.
[25:41.640 --> 25:45.400]  And that takes a pledge of $25, and then you can vote.
[25:45.620 --> 25:52.600]  And, again, 212-209-2950 or the website give2wbai.org, the number two.
[25:52.900 --> 25:59.320]  And we're hoping to get 25 people to do this in this hour, which is certainly not inconceivable.
[25:59.320 --> 26:00.480]  We've done things like that before.
[26:01.780 --> 26:04.080]  And people can make a difference.
[26:04.080 --> 26:09.380]  That is how WBAI has survived since 1960, before most of us were around.
[26:09.480 --> 26:17.280]  And we were able to get through some really, really difficult times and provide alternative voices when they were most needed.
[26:17.300 --> 26:19.120]  And they certainly are needed now.
[26:19.400 --> 26:23.480]  And we certainly find a lot of enthusiasm towards the things we talk about.
[26:23.940 --> 26:27.360]  So, again, one more time, 212-209-2950.
[26:27.360 --> 26:28.920]  Please give that number a call now.
[26:29.280 --> 26:31.840]  Try to get as many people as you can to call that number.
[26:31.840 --> 26:38.040]  Pledge at least $25, and you will become a voting member of WBAI at a very, very pivotal time.
[26:38.720 --> 26:38.880]  Okay.
[26:39.620 --> 26:47.700]  Now, speaking of, I guess, ill-advised...
[26:47.700 --> 26:48.380]  Well, this is...
[26:48.380 --> 26:49.680]  What we're talking about isn't ill-advised.
[26:49.820 --> 26:54.600]  What we were talking about before is very ill-advised, people who are spreading misinformation.
[26:56.360 --> 27:00.680]  You guys are familiar with some of the fundraising antics?
[27:00.680 --> 27:09.920]  What BAI does is really admirable, I think, as far as surviving 100% on listener donations.
[27:10.260 --> 27:12.740]  No underwriting, no commercials, nothing like that.
[27:12.980 --> 27:17.580]  But not everybody subscribes to the same philosophy.
[27:18.940 --> 27:21.920]  Others believe in getting money however they can.
[27:22.500 --> 27:24.220]  And they have no shame.
[27:24.500 --> 27:27.180]  They have absolutely no shame.
[27:27.920 --> 27:51.700]  Now, if the last four years of racism, sexism, homophobia, nationalism, xenophobia, whatever, if that hasn't gotten to you, if you haven't been turned off by the rhetoric that you have heard from 2016 to 2020, or before that and after that as well.
[27:54.760 --> 27:57.860]  Well, this story just completely floored me.
[27:58.000 --> 27:58.860]  It really did.
[27:59.500 --> 28:14.980]  The Trump fundraising that took place for the supporters, the supporters of the Trump re-election campaign, they were ripped off, consistently ripped off, making a single contribution.
[28:15.860 --> 28:21.180]  They were defaulted into making multiple contributions.
[28:21.620 --> 28:26.900]  A $500 contribution, for instance, would turn into a $500 weekly contribution.
[28:26.900 --> 28:39.440]  Yeah, and the reason this happened was because on their website was a little, little tiny checkmark that says, make this a weekly recurring donation.
[28:39.620 --> 28:45.120]  And as the months went by last year, that became harder and harder to see.
[28:45.240 --> 28:46.860]  There was all kinds of text.
[28:47.120 --> 29:03.780]  For instance, President Trump, I debate Joe Biden on September 29th, and I need to know that I have your support, join the Trump cash blitz now, all that text, and then in a little tiny print below that, donate an additional $100 automatically on 929.
[29:04.180 --> 29:09.240]  The checkbox is so tiny, I don't think I could even get a mouse to hover over it, to uncheck it.
[29:09.700 --> 29:12.940]  So many people were caught by this.
[29:13.080 --> 29:22.520]  So many people were ripped off that actually the Trump campaign was a significant contributor to credit card fraud in the past few months.
[29:22.760 --> 29:31.620]  They were a measurable percentage, the President of the United States, committing credit card fraud in this particular manner.
[29:32.280 --> 29:36.120]  There was a huge story in the New York Times about this with specific examples.
[29:36.720 --> 29:39.740]  And of course, a lot of the money had to be refunded.
[29:39.840 --> 29:41.760]  It was a huge amount, unprecedented.
[29:42.840 --> 29:52.120]  But, you know, it just makes me think of, you know, the snake oil salesman who rolls into town and sells you something, rips everybody off and goes to the next town.
[29:52.440 --> 29:58.100]  You know, the preacher with the 800 pledge line and the 900 prayer line.
[29:58.300 --> 30:02.740]  You know, all these people that are just out for money that don't care about the people that support them.
[30:03.400 --> 30:08.840]  And I know that even with this, even with this, there are people that will say, I still support them.
[30:09.580 --> 30:12.060]  There's nothing... that's cult behavior.
[30:12.300 --> 30:15.660]  You get abused, you get ripped off, but you still support the people that are doing it.
[30:16.460 --> 30:19.280]  But it doesn't mean we have to ignore it.
[30:19.840 --> 30:25.820]  This is clear-cut evidence of what bad people do when they're trying to raise money.
[30:26.180 --> 30:29.280]  The exact opposite of what the people here are trying to do.
[30:29.900 --> 30:41.760]  Because we're very open, and sometimes that might come across as being somewhat inept, and sometimes it doesn't look like we know what we're doing because we're scrambling so hard.
[30:42.120 --> 30:45.860]  Well, we're sometimes building the ship as we're sailing here.
[30:46.040 --> 30:48.960]  And it falls apart right after you build it, and you have to rebuild it.
[30:49.000 --> 30:49.640]  It gets stormy.
[30:49.800 --> 30:56.000]  Ever since I first walked into WBAI, that has been the case, where it's always something being rebuilt.
[30:57.460 --> 31:12.560]  But never, never have we ever gone down a road like this, with this kind of horrible, shameful behavior that the former president and his campaign displayed.
[31:13.540 --> 31:14.760]  Any thoughts, Alex?
[31:14.960 --> 31:16.860]  I know you have to say about this.
[31:17.540 --> 31:18.260]  Oh, always.
[31:18.500 --> 31:18.660]  Yeah.
[31:18.900 --> 31:28.380]  Well, and before I go on to my thoughts, I just wanted to read out our old telephone number one more time, 212-209-2950.
[31:28.640 --> 31:36.060]  Please become a WBAI member today so that you can vote in this important and critical upcoming referendum.
[31:36.560 --> 31:38.340]  I think it's absolutely important.
[31:38.340 --> 31:44.920]  If you want to keep us on the air, you want to keep these programs going, and you want to keep us talking about the scandalous things that Emmanuel just mentioned.
[31:44.920 --> 31:49.780]  And I have to say, and I'm embarrassed to admit, I haven't read the article.
[31:49.920 --> 31:51.180]  I'm not familiar with it, Emmanuel.
[31:51.400 --> 32:01.420]  But I wanted to ask you, did it mention in any way the third-party fundraising platform that the Republicans use, which is known as WinRed?
[32:01.680 --> 32:02.120]  Yes.
[32:02.280 --> 32:02.780]  Yes, it did.
[32:03.100 --> 32:03.540]  Extensively.
[32:04.180 --> 32:04.860]  It did.
[32:05.020 --> 32:05.240]  Okay.
[32:05.300 --> 32:06.680]  It is very, very detailed.
[32:07.180 --> 32:08.720]  Oh, well, that's very interesting.
[32:08.840 --> 32:10.280]  I really want to read that article.
[32:10.280 --> 32:14.280]  The article is entitled, How Trump Steered Supporters Into Unwitting Donations.
[32:15.000 --> 32:15.260]  Right.
[32:15.460 --> 32:31.440]  So WinRed, for our listeners' benefit, is essentially the fundraising platform through which the Republicans, for almost any political campaign, whether it's for a local seat, whether it's for a, let's say, state senate, or a federal senate, or, you know,
[32:31.500 --> 32:38.080]  federal house of representatives, or the presidency of the United States, this is the platform through which they raise money.
[32:38.080 --> 32:44.480]  So WinRed must have had something to do with the design of that particular feature.
[32:44.940 --> 33:05.200]  And I imagine that WinRed will find itself staring down the wrong end of a probably class action lawsuit from a whole bunch of people who refuse to continue to be part of the Trump cult and are rather angry about being fleeced on a monthly or weekly basis for,
[33:05.320 --> 33:08.840]  let's say, $500 or $1,000, or whatever that particular amount is.
[33:09.040 --> 33:14.200]  And what would be really, really annoying to me is, let's say, I was a Trump supporter.
[33:14.320 --> 33:15.720]  I wanted to give what I could.
[33:15.860 --> 33:18.480]  I gave what I could because I thought it was a one-time donation.
[33:18.740 --> 33:20.840]  Now, all of a sudden, it's coming out all the time.
[33:21.000 --> 33:23.740]  I might have, you know, it might have caused overdraft fees.
[33:23.820 --> 33:25.540]  It might have caused me to miss a mortgage payment.
[33:25.680 --> 33:32.020]  This could have massive consequences for people that don't have large amounts of money at hand in their checking accounts.
[33:32.020 --> 33:36.620]  And then the burden is shifted to these individuals to try to get their money back.
[33:36.760 --> 33:40.120]  It's a crazy system, insane thing to do.
[33:40.300 --> 33:45.700]  And it's sort of a crash and burn method of fundraising.
[33:45.860 --> 33:51.920]  It really indicates that you don't care one iota about the people from whom you're taking money.
[33:52.100 --> 33:58.580]  This is not a long-term play in terms of winning friends and influencing people.
[33:58.580 --> 33:59.580]  Go ahead, Gila.
[34:00.780 --> 34:04.540]  So, I also want to echo what Alex said.
[34:06.220 --> 34:09.200]  Please become or renew your WBAI membership.
[34:09.880 --> 34:11.880]  That phone number you've heard a gazillion times.
[34:12.180 --> 34:14.540]  Give to WBAI.org.
[34:15.240 --> 34:17.020]  I work in fundraising.
[34:17.160 --> 34:18.540]  That is my job.
[34:19.140 --> 34:23.380]  And I would be fired if I tried to do something like this.
[34:24.440 --> 34:35.940]  The other thing I found very interesting is one of the checkboxes, specifically on the Wynn Red site, I believe, said, if you uncheck this box, we're going to tell Trump that you don't support him.
[34:36.160 --> 34:37.200]  Oh, I didn't see that one.
[34:38.020 --> 34:40.060]  There's a new article in Forbes I'll send to you.
[34:40.080 --> 34:40.680]  Oh, my God.
[34:41.640 --> 34:41.920]  Yeah.
[34:42.360 --> 34:45.180]  We're going to tell Trump you don't support him.
[34:45.320 --> 34:49.220]  And then in teeny tiny letters, it said, if you keep this box checked, it's a monthly donation.
[34:49.220 --> 34:51.960]  Can I check that box even without supporting him at all?
[34:52.140 --> 34:54.100]  Because I want him to know that I don't support him.
[34:54.620 --> 34:54.780]  Right.
[34:54.820 --> 34:56.420]  You have to uncheck the box.
[34:56.580 --> 34:56.840]  Hmm.
[34:57.260 --> 34:57.720]  That's like...
[34:57.720 --> 34:59.300]  You know, let him know that you don't support him.
[34:59.460 --> 35:17.180]  So I think the fact that we need to be as transparent as possible in fundraising, let people know what we need their money for and where it's going to go, and we thank them for it, and we take it from them once.
[35:17.800 --> 35:28.840]  And all of those things are very possible if you give to WBAI through the Give to WBAI website or on the phone, become a member at the $25 level.
[35:29.040 --> 35:35.860]  Or I hasten to point out that you can become a BAI buddy, which is a recurring donation, but you have to specify that.
[35:35.960 --> 35:39.820]  You have to request that, and then you choose the amount that you donate over time.
[35:40.080 --> 35:42.900]  And, you know, it's completely in your control.
[35:43.080 --> 35:48.180]  There is nothing deceptive going on about it, and we appreciate it very much.
[35:48.480 --> 35:49.940]  QAnon is interfering with you now.
[35:50.360 --> 35:54.560]  But I know there's no pre-checked boxes when you go to that website for us.
[35:54.760 --> 35:56.740]  We would never do such a thing.
[35:57.080 --> 36:01.760]  But boy, that story just keeps getting worse and worse and sleazier and sleazier.
[36:02.680 --> 36:05.120]  And they have no shame.
[36:05.260 --> 36:05.980]  They have no shame.
[36:06.460 --> 36:10.300]  And it's just pathetic to see how they treat their own supporters.
[36:10.540 --> 36:14.260]  And I don't doubt that this, was it WinRed?
[36:14.400 --> 36:16.180]  Is that the name of the company?
[36:16.460 --> 36:21.440]  They probably work with other Republican candidates as well.
[36:21.680 --> 36:25.520]  Wouldn't be surprised if that same tactic was being employed in their campaigns.
[36:25.720 --> 36:27.880]  I would check if you supported any of those campaigns.
[36:28.060 --> 36:28.980]  Gila, do you know something about that?
[36:28.980 --> 36:38.120]  Yeah, no, I mean, WinRed works with, like, the National Republican Senatorial Committee, like, this is their clearinghouse.
[36:38.860 --> 36:39.860]  It's their site.
[36:39.900 --> 36:40.880]  It's their thing.
[36:42.000 --> 36:49.100]  So yeah, any, if you've basically given to any Republican candidate in the 2020 election cycle, you might want to check.
[36:50.500 --> 36:53.280]  Although, I don't know, would you be listening to us right now?
[36:53.420 --> 36:53.860]  I don't know.
[36:54.420 --> 36:55.800]  But word filters down.
[36:55.980 --> 36:56.920]  It does.
[36:57.600 --> 37:01.880]  Oh, they could be hate listening, and they like getting abused.
[37:02.120 --> 37:02.660]  Hate listening.
[37:02.820 --> 37:03.440]  Yes, that's a thing.
[37:03.800 --> 37:04.540]  That's a thing.
[37:04.960 --> 37:05.860]  People hate listen.
[37:06.380 --> 37:11.420]  Okay, another story that I thought was quite interesting has to do with our good old friends at Facebook.
[37:12.580 --> 37:18.540]  Details from more than 500 million Facebook accounts have been found available on a website for hackers.
[37:19.920 --> 37:20.640]  We're hackers.
[37:20.780 --> 37:21.200]  We have websites.
[37:21.200 --> 37:22.520]  I haven't found the website yet.
[37:22.520 --> 37:26.100]  So if our listener has that, please let us know, OTH at 2600.com.
[37:26.120 --> 37:28.560]  We'd love to peruse it and see just what's in there.
[37:28.760 --> 37:40.580]  The information, though, appears to be several years old, but it's another example of the vast amount of info collected by the company and other social media sites and the limits to how secure that information is.
[37:41.040 --> 37:47.500]  Now, the interesting thing is the comment that Facebook had for this, which reflects what the story has told us.
[37:47.800 --> 37:50.940]  This is old data that was previously reported on in 2019.
[37:50.940 --> 37:54.420]  We found and fixed this issue in August 2019.
[37:55.480 --> 37:57.220]  Yeah, but you really didn't, did you?
[37:57.320 --> 38:01.880]  Because the data is still out there and our trust has been betrayed.
[38:03.500 --> 38:07.840]  People put all kinds of private information into their Facebook accounts.
[38:08.080 --> 38:09.000]  God knows why.
[38:09.000 --> 38:12.640]  We try and advise people not to do that, but they do it anyway.
[38:12.640 --> 38:18.980]  And then something like this happens and all of their data is shared with the entire world.
[38:19.640 --> 38:23.500]  And Facebook says, whoops, we left an account wide open.
[38:23.500 --> 38:24.340]  We shouldn't have done that.
[38:24.560 --> 38:25.620]  We won't do it again.
[38:26.140 --> 38:30.580]  But then two years later, the same data shows up and it's still your data.
[38:30.800 --> 38:31.640]  It's still your name.
[38:31.780 --> 38:32.360]  It's still your address.
[38:32.500 --> 38:33.740]  It's still your phone number.
[38:34.320 --> 38:35.520]  What are you supposed to do?
[38:35.660 --> 38:37.760]  How are you supposed to recover from that?
[38:37.940 --> 38:42.480]  You trusted these people to keep your data safe and they let you down.
[38:43.000 --> 38:44.740]  And again, just like Trump, you keep going back.
[38:44.860 --> 38:45.840]  You keep giving them more.
[38:46.220 --> 38:51.520]  You know, you have to learn these lessons and keep your private data private.
[38:51.660 --> 39:00.300]  Because once you share it on these social media platforms, it's only as safe as the weakest link in those companies.
[39:00.560 --> 39:02.840]  And that's often a very, very weak link.
[39:03.060 --> 39:03.560]  Alex?
[39:04.120 --> 39:10.000]  Yeah, this is, I think, a particularly confusing type of issue for people as well.
[39:10.240 --> 39:14.360]  And Facebook, I think, has exacerbated this confusion as well.
[39:15.720 --> 39:21.240]  And I think at the outset, we need to draw a distinction between a breach and a leak, right?
[39:21.380 --> 39:24.660]  Because this does not seem to be a data breach, right?
[39:24.660 --> 39:38.080]  Somebody did not gain unauthorized access into Facebook systems and exfiltrate a bunch of data that they then concatenated and released, put on these public forums for unscrupulous individuals to download.
[39:38.160 --> 39:39.840]  Then how did the data get accessed?
[39:40.120 --> 39:41.860]  This was through scraping.
[39:42.260 --> 39:55.860]  So people had scraped together 533 million records by exploiting an error in the contact syncing mechanisms that Facebook had with respect to telephone numbers and I think a couple of other features.
[39:56.040 --> 40:03.280]  And what was particularly confusing about this was that there were a couple other issues that Facebook had in 2019.
[40:03.540 --> 40:14.100]  I believe there was also a consent order from the FTC that required them to notify the FTC of any data breaches or any breaches of personal information.
[40:14.300 --> 40:28.880]  But what's very concerning, not just to me, I think to a lot of people, probably a lot of attorneys general and information commissioners within the EU as well, is that Facebook never made any notification in 2019 about this particular type of data scraping activity.
[40:29.160 --> 40:30.720]  They were aware of it.
[40:30.820 --> 40:31.840]  They corrected the flaw.
[40:31.840 --> 40:33.460]  You can no longer do this.
[40:33.580 --> 40:37.180]  They knew that this happened, but they refused to notify people.
[40:37.460 --> 40:51.100]  And prior to us going on the air, Reuters had actually come out with an article, maybe a half an hour before we went live, indicating that Facebook had no plans on notifying the 533 million affected individuals.
[40:51.500 --> 41:02.380]  That, to me, is unsurprising, because if they now decided to notify them in 2021, that seems to be a concession that they probably should have notified them in 2019.
[41:03.020 --> 41:12.600]  And it seems like this was possibly part of a separate leak of data in 2019, but there's different data sets and there's different countries involved in this.
[41:12.700 --> 41:14.260]  So the whole thing is very confusing.
[41:14.260 --> 41:22.880]  But at root, what we need to remember is that this is 533 million people who have had their data exposed.
[41:23.260 --> 41:27.300]  And this is a lot different from just having data in a phone book, right?
[41:27.360 --> 41:33.860]  I mean, to play devil's advocate for a second, if we're talking about names and addresses, remember the days when you could look in a phone book.
[41:33.940 --> 41:35.140]  You can still look at a phone book, right?
[41:35.200 --> 41:38.440]  And find people's names and addresses and telephone numbers.
[41:39.180 --> 42:00.720]  But with the way in which this data is available to people on mass, in a concatenated and aggregated fashion, it will allow for lots of different types of activities that we don't necessarily want to encourage, that would have been impossible to perform just on the basis of data that you would gather from a telephone book,
[42:01.280 --> 42:01.420]  right?
[42:01.600 --> 42:13.920]  And I'm talking about this is going to be right for phishing scams, for cons, we have to think about even debt collectors are going to be using this type of information to try to, you know, to collect debts.
[42:14.160 --> 42:22.800]  I mean, it's all different types of malicious activity that this is going to encourage robocalling, telemarketing, all kinds of nefarious things.
[42:22.920 --> 42:26.140]  And this is the type of data that's mostly static, very difficult to change.
[42:26.360 --> 42:38.800]  Well, Alex, I may want to take issue with what you said about this not being a breach, because we're talking about a user's phone numbers, the Facebook IDs, their full names, locations, birthdates, email addresses.
[42:39.400 --> 42:46.160]  Are you saying all that information was available to the public anyway, before all this happened?
[42:46.220 --> 42:48.200]  All you had to do was scrape it?
[42:48.260 --> 42:53.200]  And is that what people intended when they put that information into their Facebook account?
[42:53.200 --> 43:06.160]  Well, as I understand it, the position of Facebook is that if people intended that information to be public, the dispersion of that information could not be considered to be a data breach, right?
[43:06.260 --> 43:09.460]  I mean, there's a big difference between a breach and an incident, right?
[43:09.600 --> 43:20.680]  You know, a breach is when somebody accesses your system, gets inside without authorization and does something, bypasses some kind of security control, gets access to data, something that... This was not the case.
[43:20.840 --> 43:22.700]  You did not have to breach any system.
[43:22.840 --> 43:25.140]  You did not have to gain unauthorized access to Facebook.
[43:25.320 --> 43:29.940]  You were using the normal functionality that Facebook allowed people to have.
[43:30.340 --> 43:38.660]  They gave this access to the public, but you were using it in a way that Facebook did not intend you to use it and thereby enable this scraping activity.
[43:38.860 --> 43:50.080]  Yeah, but Alex, if I'm a Facebook user, I don't, by default, have the right to look at every other Facebook user's info, because that's what friends are for.
[43:50.400 --> 43:52.420]  Literally, that's what friends are for on Facebook.
[43:52.780 --> 43:55.980]  And if I'm bypassing that, how is that not a breach?
[43:56.120 --> 44:03.880]  How is that not a breach of their security if I'm able to leapfrog over that particular restriction and get private info from people I'm not friends with?
[44:04.160 --> 44:06.500]  Well, I wouldn't call that a breach at all.
[44:06.640 --> 44:17.380]  I would completely disagree, because you're using publicly available mechanisms that Facebook intended to be out there, to be not behind any kind of barrier.
[44:17.500 --> 44:19.080]  You didn't need a password to access this.
[44:19.140 --> 44:22.500]  You didn't need to go through a VPN in order to access this particular type of data.
[44:22.700 --> 44:32.480]  This was functionality about contact syncing that people had repurposed to allow them to connect the dots on all of these various users, to scrape this data.
[44:32.480 --> 44:39.600]  I think people might have assumed there was some kind of a password or some kind of a barrier that would have protected their info from people they weren't friends with.
[44:39.760 --> 44:44.580]  So just because there wasn't an actual password there, does that make it any better?
[44:45.920 --> 44:49.580]  Probably not, but I mean, that's why they corrected this in 2019.
[44:49.940 --> 44:54.220]  And so, you know, it just goes back, I think, to the issue of foreseeability.
[44:54.460 --> 45:04.340]  You know, when Facebook created this particular type of functionality, and this is probably what will play out in the courts, was it reasonably foreseeable that people would misuse it in this particular fashion?
[45:04.780 --> 45:07.940]  You know, is this a known security vulnerability?
[45:08.040 --> 45:14.500]  Is this a known form of abuse that somebody would have figured out or a reasonable person should have known about?
[45:15.180 --> 45:25.000]  And that they allowed members of the public, thereby to scrape all of this data, put it into this form, and now it's out there, and you can't put the toothpaste back in the bottle.
[45:25.300 --> 45:28.440]  Yeah, I also take issue with they fixed the problem.
[45:28.640 --> 45:30.540]  No, the problem is that the data is out there.
[45:30.660 --> 45:36.020]  It's like saying, okay, we fixed the building that was on fire after it burned down, because the fire's out.
[45:36.200 --> 45:37.860]  Yeah, but you still have a burned down building.
[45:37.860 --> 45:43.020]  You still have 500 million Facebook users whose private info is being shared amongst everybody in the world.
[45:43.220 --> 45:44.860]  So the problem was not fixed.
[45:45.040 --> 45:45.700]  Rob, go ahead.
[45:45.860 --> 45:46.480]  We only have a minute.
[45:47.440 --> 45:53.560]  Yeah, I mean, you can't really call it old data when it's things like your name, address, phone number, date of birth, things of which are very difficult to change.
[45:54.220 --> 46:09.260]  But I do want to point out that the data that was leaked has been rolled into Have I Been Pwned, which is a website we've spoken about before on this program, where you can put in your email address or your phone number and check to see whether your information has leaked out in any number of data breaches,
[46:09.260 --> 46:10.380]  including this one.
[46:10.860 --> 46:12.620]  That's Have I Been Pwned?
[46:12.620 --> 46:14.620]  That's the word owned with a P instead of the O.
[46:14.760 --> 46:17.880]  So that's Have I Been P-W-N-E-D dot com.
[46:18.040 --> 46:22.340]  Go in and check all your email addresses, phone numbers, everything just on a regular basis.
[46:22.500 --> 46:27.940]  All you have to do is give it your private info, and I'll tell you if that private info has been leaked anywhere.
[46:28.240 --> 46:29.680]  No, it's a good site.
[46:29.840 --> 46:33.700]  It does tell you, but I just feel a little weird saying, okay, I'm going to give you my email address.
[46:33.740 --> 46:37.140]  You tell me if it's secure or not, and then they have my email address.
[46:37.360 --> 46:38.960]  But that's how you find out.
[46:39.080 --> 46:40.300]  There's no other way to do it right now.
[46:40.740 --> 46:48.320]  Again, if somebody has info on this massive file that's floating around, we'd sure like to see just what info is in there for scientific purposes, obviously.
[46:48.640 --> 46:51.360]  Email us, OTH at 2600 dot com.
[46:51.480 --> 46:52.320]  Alex, did you have something else?
[46:53.520 --> 46:57.720]  Yeah, I think that this is a massive issue.
[46:57.880 --> 47:01.020]  It's going to be a big problem for Facebook going forward.
[47:01.320 --> 47:06.080]  We already have the Irish Information Commissioner looking at this, I think, for the whole of the EU.
[47:06.380 --> 47:12.380]  I'm sure that there's going to be many attorneys generally in the United States, possibly even congressional inquiries looking into this particular issue.
[47:12.700 --> 47:16.980]  So I don't think that we have seen the last, so we should definitely follow it, see how it evolves.
[47:17.760 --> 47:21.940]  Because this is an incredible issue, but it goes back, Emmanuel, to what you said.
[47:22.160 --> 47:25.120]  I mean, you've got to be really careful about what you put out there.
[47:25.460 --> 47:33.360]  Because it may end up in a giant database of 533 other million people that enables all kinds of malicious activity.
[47:34.240 --> 47:36.040]  It's a massive problem.
[47:36.320 --> 47:37.460]  It absolutely is.
[47:37.660 --> 47:41.400]  And one that we're going to continue to be talking about.
[47:41.560 --> 47:46.760]  Again, contribute to WVAI, 212-209-2950.
[47:47.180 --> 47:50.220]  Write to us, OTH at 2600 dot com.
[47:50.540 --> 47:54.520]  And tune in to Off the Hook Overtime coming up in a few minutes on YouTube.
[47:54.520 --> 47:57.420]  Follow the link on the main 2600 dot com page.
[47:57.920 --> 47:58.940]  We'll see you next week.
[47:59.240 --> 47:59.920]  Good night.
[48:00.620 --> 48:04.320]  We are the telephone company that everybody hates.
[48:04.500 --> 48:07.340]  We'll take your phone when you're not home.
[48:07.920 --> 48:12.320]  If you forget to send us money that you use the message rates.
[48:14.180 --> 48:17.860]  Don't disagree with what we say.
[48:17.940 --> 48:21.080]  We're going to charge you anyway.
[48:22.020 --> 48:28.620]  And if you don't think we're correct, then we will simply disconnect.
[48:29.720 --> 48:31.900]  Have it our way.
[48:32.260 --> 48:33.580]  Have it our way.
[48:35.440 --> 48:37.120]  So call your mom.
[48:37.820 --> 48:39.120]  And call your dad.
[48:39.360 --> 48:39.900]  And call your dad.
[48:40.160 --> 48:42.200]  And think how glad we'll be to hear from you.
[48:42.560 --> 48:43.320]  Collect from Trinidad.
[48:43.740 --> 48:44.500]  And maybe then.
[48:44.640 --> 48:45.440]  And maybe then.
[48:45.520 --> 48:46.480]  Call all your friends.
[48:47.280 --> 48:51.060]  And show how much you really care for them by how much you can spend.
[48:53.540 --> 48:56.600]  And when you're old, just dial a prayer.
[48:56.940 --> 49:00.380]  I don't know that someone's always there.
[49:00.880 --> 49:03.540]  And if you can't find anyone.
[49:04.800 --> 49:07.080]  Just call our girls at 411.
[49:09.840 --> 49:11.020]  We are so good.
[49:11.120 --> 49:11.860]  We are so good.
[49:11.960 --> 49:12.840]  We are so great.
[49:12.940 --> 49:13.700]  We are so great.
[49:13.800 --> 49:17.380]  We are the telephone company that everybody hates.
[49:17.520 --> 49:20.100]  We'll take your phone when you're not home.
[49:20.740 --> 49:24.540]  If you forget to send us money that you use in message rates.
[49:24.760 --> 49:25.480]  We are so good.
[49:25.580 --> 49:26.300]  We are so good.
[49:26.440 --> 49:27.300]  We are so great.
[49:27.420 --> 49:28.140]  We are so great.
[49:28.260 --> 49:31.800]  We are the telephone company that everybody hates.
[49:31.820 --> 49:35.260]  We'll take your phone when you're not home.
[49:35.320 --> 49:38.860]  If you forget to send us money that you use in message rates.
[49:39.020 --> 49:39.740]  We are so good.
[49:39.880 --> 49:41.560]  We are so great.
[49:41.660 --> 49:42.360]  We are so great.
[49:42.500 --> 49:46.100]  We are the telephone company that everybody hates.
[49:46.220 --> 49:48.640]  We'll take your phone when you're not home.
[49:48.840 --> 49:49.040]  If you forget to send us money that you use in message rates.
[49:49.040 --> 49:49.040]  We are so good.
[49:49.040 --> 49:49.040]  We are so great.
[49:49.040 --> 49:49.040]  We are so great.
[49:49.040 --> 49:49.040]  We are the telephone company that everybody hates.
[49:49.040 --> 49:49.040]  We'll take your phone when you're not home.
[49:49.040 --> 49:49.380]  When you're not home.
[49:49.700 --> 49:52.500]  If you forget to send us money that you use in message rates.
[49:52.500 --> 49:52.500]  We are so good.
[49:52.500 --> 49:52.500]  We are so great.
[49:52.500 --> 49:52.500]  We are so great.
[49:52.500 --> 49:52.500]  We are so great.
[49:52.500 --> 49:52.500]  We are the telephone company that everybody hates.
[49:52.500 --> 49:52.500]  We'll take your phone when you're not home.
[49:52.500 --> 49:54.020]  We are so good.
[49:54.100 --> 49:55.840]  We are so great.
[49:56.480 --> 50:00.340]  We are the telephone company that everybody hates.
[50:00.460 --> 50:01.200]  We'll take your phone.
[50:02.700 --> 50:21.020]  If you forget to send us money that you use.
[50:23.080 --> 50:25.340]  Six has been disconnected.
[00:00.920 --> 00:04.340]  All right, here we are on YouTube, live.
[00:05.440 --> 00:07.420]  Let's make sure everybody made it.
[00:08.520 --> 00:09.200]  I'm here.
[00:09.460 --> 00:10.060]  Rob, are you there?
[00:11.160 --> 00:12.280]  I am here.
[00:12.440 --> 00:12.880]  Okay, good.
[00:12.980 --> 00:13.660]  Alex, I see you.
[00:13.760 --> 00:14.440]  Gila's missing.
[00:15.100 --> 00:16.560]  She had to step away for a moment.
[00:16.700 --> 00:18.020]  She will be back forthwith.
[00:18.120 --> 00:19.940]  And Kyle, I think you're joining us?
[00:20.380 --> 00:21.160]  Trying, yeah.
[00:21.160 --> 00:21.640]  Okay, good.
[00:22.160 --> 00:23.420]  Well, some exciting news.
[00:23.580 --> 00:30.000]  We, of course, have our regular phone number, which is 802-321-HACK.
[00:30.000 --> 00:31.740]  802-321-4225.
[00:32.000 --> 00:38.900]  But our good friend Lucky225 has set up a toll-free number for those listeners who have trouble calling Vermont.
[00:38.900 --> 00:45.500]  If you recall, last week or two weeks ago, we had a listener who was very upset that she had to call long distance.
[00:45.500 --> 00:47.380]  I didn't think long distance existed anymore.
[00:47.560 --> 00:49.800]  So there's a toll-free number that I think works.
[00:50.160 --> 00:51.960]  It's area code 833.
[00:51.960 --> 00:55.120]  Yes, that is a toll-free area code, just like 800.
[00:55.320 --> 00:59.920]  But it's 833-755-2600.
[01:00.000 --> 01:01.120]  Imagine that.
[01:01.300 --> 01:07.260]  That is so close to our old phone number, you know, our old office number, or our current office number with a different area code.
[01:07.500 --> 01:08.240]  But it's not.
[01:08.360 --> 01:10.100]  833-755-2600.
[01:10.260 --> 01:11.520]  We'll get to the same place, I think.
[01:11.640 --> 01:13.300]  So give either one a try.
[01:13.440 --> 01:17.000]  833-755-2600 or 802-321-HACK.
[01:17.440 --> 01:23.480]  And you can be a listener that calls us on the air, even though it's not really the air.
[01:24.040 --> 01:25.100]  It's the Internet.
[01:26.980 --> 01:29.740]  And, Robbie, you can verify that we are, in fact, on the Internet, correct?
[01:30.240 --> 01:31.160]  We are, indeed.
[01:31.420 --> 01:34.860]  The YouTube is chugging away, and we have people listening.
[01:35.120 --> 01:36.220]  So, hello, all of you.
[01:36.340 --> 01:38.240]  These shows go so quickly.
[01:38.420 --> 01:39.820]  There are so many things I wanted to talk about.
[01:39.960 --> 01:42.180]  And before I know it, the hour is gone.
[01:42.280 --> 01:46.760]  Of course, there's the figuring out how to get on the air part, which is a real pain in the ass.
[01:47.220 --> 01:52.340]  And then there's the whole having to end the show five minutes before the hour and then playing the outro.
[01:52.340 --> 01:54.000]  So it's really just 50 minutes.
[01:54.000 --> 01:58.180]  And by the time all the pleasantries are exchanged, that's another five minutes down the drain there.
[01:58.360 --> 02:01.960]  And, of course, we have to tell people to support the radio station.
[02:02.040 --> 02:02.760]  Another ten minutes to come.
[02:02.820 --> 02:05.020]  But, you know, it's only a few minutes we have to talk about anything.
[02:05.520 --> 02:06.680]  So that's why we have overtime.
[02:06.820 --> 02:07.700]  That's why we need overtime.
[02:08.980 --> 02:10.040]  And now we have a phone call.
[02:10.840 --> 02:11.400]  Good evening.
[02:11.520 --> 02:12.160]  You're on the air.
[02:13.780 --> 02:14.300]  I am?
[02:14.560 --> 02:15.120]  Yes, go ahead.
[02:19.740 --> 02:20.380]  What's on your mind?
[02:20.660 --> 02:22.080]  I wanted to let you...
[02:23.240 --> 02:24.900]  The two people who...
[02:24.900 --> 02:27.400]  Wait, this is the caller that had trouble calling long distance, right?
[02:28.320 --> 02:29.020]  Yes, it is.
[02:29.120 --> 02:30.020]  And you see what we did for you.
[02:30.100 --> 02:31.020]  We set up a toll-free number.
[02:31.960 --> 02:33.180]  Thank you very much.
[02:33.320 --> 02:34.560]  And did you call that toll-free number?
[02:35.520 --> 02:36.160]  Yes, I did.
[02:36.280 --> 02:36.860]  It works.
[02:37.160 --> 02:37.800]  It's amazing.
[02:37.960 --> 02:40.260]  Thank you to Lucky225 for setting it up for us.
[02:40.380 --> 02:41.520]  This is what hackers do.
[02:41.820 --> 02:45.040]  They come up with solutions to problems that we didn't know existed.
[02:46.080 --> 02:55.640]  And I have a solution to the pair of people who were frustrated about not being able to get their Excelsior passes.
[02:56.020 --> 02:56.460]  Okay.
[02:57.920 --> 03:00.920]  I was very eager to get mine.
[03:01.800 --> 03:09.100]  And so I tried, you know, just after midnight, which was 14 days after, and I didn't get it.
[03:09.100 --> 03:30.240]  I tried a little before 9 a.m., and I tried a little after 9 a.m., and then I tried a little bit before and after the time of my shot, which is on the card, which I thought they might have, you know, put it into a system, and I wouldn't get my pass until after that time.
[03:30.940 --> 03:32.140]  And I shouldn't.
[03:32.300 --> 03:32.400]  And I shouldn't.
[03:32.500 --> 03:36.200]  But the next day, I was able to get it.
[03:36.300 --> 03:39.860]  I think what it is, there are a lot of people working on it.
[03:39.900 --> 03:43.880]  And I think it's just they get overwhelmed, and it takes them a day to catch up.
[03:43.880 --> 03:45.620]  I think it's something like that.
[03:46.340 --> 03:49.500]  There's also one other fly in the ointment.
[03:50.480 --> 04:07.880]  It's supposed to be good for six months after you're fully vaccinated, but the date is for six months after your second shot, instead of six months after you're fully vaccinated, 14 days after that.
[04:08.920 --> 04:13.960]  Okay, so those two weeks, they might count or they might not.
[04:14.120 --> 04:14.580]  You know what?
[04:14.580 --> 04:16.320]  I'm willing to let them get away with that.
[04:16.940 --> 04:18.120]  It's about six months.
[04:18.360 --> 04:20.280]  And plus, you know, that might change, too.
[04:20.420 --> 04:28.140]  Well, since you were hacking, you know, I thought you might be interested in the things that I went through in getting my pass.
[04:28.280 --> 04:33.020]  Well, okay, so your advice to Robin Gila, then, is to wait until tomorrow, and it should work.
[04:34.260 --> 04:35.000]  Hopefully, yes.
[04:35.180 --> 04:35.460]  All right.
[04:35.580 --> 04:35.980]  Well, thanks.
[04:36.100 --> 04:37.360]  Thanks for sharing that.
[04:37.940 --> 04:38.380]  Excellent.
[04:38.540 --> 04:39.100]  Thank you very much, caller.
[04:39.280 --> 04:40.500]  And thank you for the toll-free number.
[04:40.560 --> 04:40.880]  Okay.
[04:41.760 --> 04:42.660]  You're very welcome.
[04:43.400 --> 04:43.920]  Bye-bye.
[04:44.100 --> 04:54.540]  And our phone number, again, is toll-free, 833-755-2600, or the regular number, 802-321-4225, 802-321-HACK.
[04:54.540 --> 04:56.060]  We have too many cool numbers now.
[04:56.620 --> 05:01.160]  We only have one phone line, so how do we have so many cool numbers that go to that phone line?
[05:01.760 --> 05:02.640]  It's pretty amazing.
[05:03.380 --> 05:05.480]  You know, I wish we could program it to give a busy signal.
[05:06.200 --> 05:15.800]  I think when somebody calls and someone's on it, it goes to voicemail, there's nothing we can do about that, because we're somewhere in the line, we're making use of Google, and they just won't allow us to do that.
[05:15.980 --> 05:18.240]  Well, maybe Google Voice will add that feature someday.
[05:19.020 --> 05:19.740]  They won't.
[05:19.840 --> 05:20.300]  They won't.
[05:20.320 --> 05:21.960]  They'll just ignore us, as they always do.
[05:22.520 --> 05:23.480]  We can still hope.
[05:23.660 --> 05:39.580]  Again, if people are having trouble getting a vaccine, we want to hear about it, and we can utilize our hacker skills to figure out if there's a way to get in, to get into the system, to figure it out.
[05:39.660 --> 05:40.480]  There's always a way.
[05:41.140 --> 05:45.760]  And this is something I've learned by just playing with a lot of systems over the past few months.
[05:46.460 --> 05:53.720]  If something doesn't work, you just keep trying until it does, and then you keep trying after that to make a better result possible.
[05:54.080 --> 06:01.040]  You know, originally, Kyle, you had an appointment for mid-May, and we just kept trying and got an appointment for last week.
[06:01.860 --> 06:04.500]  And people today are getting appointments for the same day.
[06:04.880 --> 06:06.380]  So these things are possible.
[06:06.380 --> 06:12.220]  You should never accept what somebody tells you as the final result, that you can't get better than this.
[06:12.360 --> 06:13.140]  You always can.
[06:13.340 --> 06:13.960]  You always can.
[06:14.200 --> 06:15.260]  Persistence is how you do it.
[06:15.320 --> 06:21.820]  And that's one thing we have learned in the hacker community, is that you persist, eventually you'll get the result you're looking for.
[06:22.880 --> 06:38.220]  And right now, the result we're looking for is a phone call, 802-321-4225, 802-321-HACK, or again, if you don't want to have the long-distance charges, which I don't think works overseas, someone can try that, but I don't think it does, but in the continental United States,
[06:38.340 --> 06:44.080]  and maybe Canada, 833-755-2600, and you can speak to us over the airwaves.
[06:44.280 --> 06:44.820]  Not Mexico, though?
[06:45.140 --> 06:45.540]  Maybe.
[06:45.860 --> 06:46.680]  You know, I don't know.
[06:47.000 --> 06:48.740]  Someone has to go down to Mexico and try it.
[06:49.140 --> 06:50.440]  Can we even go to Mexico?
[06:50.440 --> 06:53.900]  If it works in Canada, I think Mexico should be able to use it as well.
[06:53.920 --> 06:56.720]  We cannot go to Canada still, even completely vaccinated.
[06:56.840 --> 06:57.760]  We can't go to...
[06:58.680 --> 06:59.480]  That's okay.
[06:59.720 --> 06:59.980]  Interesting.
[07:00.980 --> 07:09.380]  We're seeing weird numbers on a display, so we will confess to that, that we were able to see numbers that come in because of this phone setup we have.
[07:09.740 --> 07:11.800]  And this one had a weird prefix.
[07:12.040 --> 07:13.900]  It was 03-something.
[07:14.340 --> 07:15.560]  And then...
[07:15.560 --> 07:15.780]  Okay.
[07:16.100 --> 07:16.660]  Good evening.
[07:16.660 --> 07:18.040]  You're on the air?
[07:19.660 --> 07:21.180]  Good evening, of the hookup.
[07:21.280 --> 07:22.700]  Okay, that explains it.
[07:22.720 --> 07:26.160]  Your number showed up as 03, I think, what, 592-something?
[07:26.640 --> 07:28.260]  What's the country code for Bulgaria?
[07:29.220 --> 07:30.200]  3-5-9.
[07:30.880 --> 07:31.420]  Oh, there you go.
[07:31.560 --> 07:32.120]  3-5-9.
[07:32.620 --> 07:33.200]  That's it.
[07:33.320 --> 07:36.560]  Okay, so we know when Bobson is calling by that weird number that shows up.
[07:36.640 --> 07:38.900]  Which number did he use?
[07:39.000 --> 07:41.840]  Well, you didn't use the 8-3-3 number, did you, Bobson?
[07:41.920 --> 07:42.700]  You used the 8-0-2 number.
[07:43.120 --> 07:50.220]  I tried earlier, but I get a message from the local phone company that's unable to connect.
[07:50.560 --> 07:50.920]  Uh-huh.
[07:51.020 --> 07:51.660]  It makes sense.
[07:51.860 --> 07:52.640]  It makes sense.
[07:52.840 --> 07:53.600]  So how are you?
[07:53.820 --> 07:55.800]  Have you gotten your vaccine yet, Bulgarians?
[07:56.640 --> 07:57.360]  I'm sorry, go ahead.
[07:57.360 --> 08:06.740]  It's not obvious about the unable to connect, because there are 800 numbers over there that I've tried reaching with country code 1 in front.
[08:06.860 --> 08:07.260]  Really?
[08:07.360 --> 08:07.900]  And they work?
[08:08.060 --> 08:08.700]  From here.
[08:08.880 --> 08:12.340]  And they just play a message that charges may apply.
[08:12.940 --> 08:16.800]  And they connect you to the 800-whatever.
[08:17.100 --> 08:18.080]  And do charges apply?
[08:19.800 --> 08:21.320]  Well, maybe.
[08:21.740 --> 08:22.740]  You don't know.
[08:23.620 --> 08:35.880]  I don't talk to too many 800 numbers, but that seems, that's the 8-3-3 thing I tried earlier.
[08:37.060 --> 08:40.160]  I was surprised by not being able to connect.
[08:40.840 --> 08:43.260]  Well, I'm not surprised, but I'm glad you did connect.
[08:43.420 --> 08:45.800]  I wanted to ask you, are Bulgarians getting vaccines?
[08:45.800 --> 08:49.380]  Do you guys have a decent setup, or is it a struggle?
[08:49.380 --> 08:53.560]  Well, I don't really know.
[08:53.920 --> 09:01.100]  I had my second dose of Moderna last Friday.
[09:01.320 --> 09:01.600]  Great.
[09:05.920 --> 09:20.000]  So, I'm not exactly sure the whole bureaucracy that's been put up on top of the required and it's for the situation, but...
[09:21.260 --> 09:23.780]  Well, how does it work there?
[09:24.020 --> 09:25.900]  How did you sign up for your vaccine?
[09:28.380 --> 09:35.600]  Well, certain people who work in healthcare were...
[09:38.640 --> 09:49.300]  There were doses provided by the employers, by their employers, for them and close family folk.
[09:51.480 --> 09:53.040]  So, yes.
[09:53.620 --> 09:56.140]  Somehow that happened for me.
[09:57.800 --> 10:07.620]  So, you work with a lot of people in your employment and it's important as far as your occupation and that's how you were able to be eligible?
[10:09.700 --> 10:10.220]  No.
[10:10.500 --> 10:32.940]  People who work in healthcare, their employers get vaccinations arranged at the place of employment for employees and close relatives to those employees if they wish to get it.
[10:32.940 --> 10:36.260]  How is it for the general public now?
[10:38.580 --> 10:40.980]  I think it's messy.
[10:41.260 --> 10:43.420]  I don't know how messy it is.
[10:45.700 --> 10:55.550]  But it's unlikely to get less messy in the nearby future.
[10:55.550 --> 11:03.190]  Therefore, we had an election last Sunday, which went...
[11:05.020 --> 11:05.950]  How should I say?
[11:06.170 --> 11:12.910]  Well, things happened that were a bit of a...
[11:13.700 --> 11:20.710]  I can't say I'm happy with the results, shall we say.
[11:21.650 --> 11:24.230]  Well, we've had some stormy elections, too.
[11:24.430 --> 11:27.050]  And we've gotten through them.
[11:28.330 --> 11:29.350]  Yes, I know.
[11:29.870 --> 11:30.490]  You've heard.
[11:31.690 --> 11:32.630]  Well, definitely...
[11:32.630 --> 11:33.450]  Well, yes.
[11:33.710 --> 11:37.910]  I've been listening to news over the past few years.
[11:38.450 --> 11:40.550]  Well, I heard about the election as well.
[11:40.690 --> 11:43.990]  And it's definitely something that other parts of the world are watching.
[11:44.170 --> 11:46.810]  And certainly a change in direction.
[11:47.850 --> 11:50.050]  By the way, Bobson, what time is it over there?
[11:51.950 --> 11:53.950]  Uh, eight hours...
[11:53.950 --> 11:56.770]  Seven hours in the future with respect to New York.
[11:56.870 --> 11:58.670]  Let me check what it says here.
[11:58.670 --> 11:59.770]  It says 312.
[12:00.830 --> 12:03.070]  It's going to be 5 o'clock in two minutes.
[12:04.310 --> 12:06.270]  It's going to be what time in two minutes?
[12:07.210 --> 12:08.750]  It's going to be 314.
[12:09.170 --> 12:09.750]  Oh, 314.
[12:10.050 --> 12:10.570]  It's close enough.
[12:10.870 --> 12:12.530]  Okay, so 314 in the morning.
[12:12.650 --> 12:14.150]  That's probably why you sound tired.
[12:14.350 --> 12:14.470]  No, no.
[12:14.650 --> 12:17.350]  In a minute, it's going to be 314 in the morning.
[12:17.510 --> 12:17.730]  Okay.
[12:17.910 --> 12:18.470]  In the night.
[12:20.050 --> 12:20.410]  Got it.
[12:21.590 --> 12:23.930]  Well, Bobson, you should get some sleep, I think.
[12:24.730 --> 12:26.250]  Thanks for staying up to listen to us.
[12:26.670 --> 12:28.490]  I got about 11 hours of sleep yesterday.
[12:28.630 --> 12:28.990]  You did?
[12:29.130 --> 12:29.410]  Wow.
[12:29.670 --> 12:29.930]  Okay.
[12:30.670 --> 12:32.150]  Yeah, Bobson's a night owl, I think.
[12:32.270 --> 12:33.410]  But it's...
[12:34.230 --> 12:35.610]  He's up at all hours.
[12:38.970 --> 12:41.610]  Well, I would like to get other calls from Eastern Europe.
[12:41.810 --> 12:44.910]  So here's an invite to other countries as well.
[12:45.750 --> 12:46.770]  Croatia, Serbia.
[12:48.350 --> 12:49.050]  There's a lot...
[12:49.050 --> 12:49.730]  It's a busy time.
[12:49.870 --> 12:50.910]  There's a lot going on in the world.
[12:51.070 --> 12:53.510]  We want to hear updates, and we certainly are...
[12:53.510 --> 12:58.050]  I'm so happy to hear you, Bobson, and have to keep us updated.
[12:59.090 --> 13:00.630]  Yeah, very glad you got the vaccine.
[13:00.770 --> 13:11.310]  Now that I'm fully vaccinated, I'm trying to figure out how long those vaccines will last for, which is most of what people are trying to figure out from what I can hear.
[13:24.270 --> 13:29.710]  Well, I think all of that depends on how quickly we can get people vaccinated, how quickly herd immunity is achieved.
[13:29.830 --> 13:36.210]  And if we get to that stage, the virus won't be around to mutate into something that we have to get another shot for.
[13:36.410 --> 13:38.650]  Yeah, it's ultimately preventing it from being endemic.
[13:40.870 --> 13:42.830]  Oh, well, anyhow...
[13:42.830 --> 13:43.810]  All right, well, thanks for your call.
[13:44.090 --> 13:44.410]  I'm really...
[13:45.230 --> 13:54.970]  I'm really happy with the person who vaccinated me, because I have a phobia of needles, which has...
[13:54.970 --> 14:05.450]  I've had four years, and I've warned them that I'll be as brave as I could, and I managed to.
[14:05.730 --> 14:06.590]  Well, good for you.
[14:06.890 --> 14:08.390]  That's great.
[14:08.390 --> 14:19.370]  And the person who did it was excellent both times in their needling.
[14:19.730 --> 14:21.510]  Wait, you got the same person each time?
[14:23.450 --> 14:23.990]  Yeah.
[14:24.210 --> 14:24.490]  Wow.
[14:24.790 --> 14:26.170]  It so happens.
[14:26.550 --> 14:27.350]  That's pretty cool.
[14:27.450 --> 14:28.210]  It so happened.
[14:29.850 --> 14:31.950]  All right, well, I'm glad you were able to overcome that.
[14:32.090 --> 14:35.590]  It's so important, and we'll all stay healthy as a result.
[14:37.780 --> 14:38.540]  So do that.
[14:38.540 --> 14:39.140]  All right.
[14:39.360 --> 14:40.260]  Good hearing from you, Bobson.
[14:40.520 --> 14:41.100]  Talk soon.
[14:41.240 --> 14:42.380]  Have a great night, folks.
[14:42.620 --> 14:42.960]  Take care.
[14:44.140 --> 14:52.220]  And again, our phone number, 802-321-HACK, 802-321-4225, or the toll-free option, 833-755-2600.
[14:52.800 --> 15:01.400]  Not only that, we get to see Bobson in person in the not-too-distant future, theoretically speaking, according to the science.
[15:01.400 --> 15:01.800]  Yes.
[15:02.380 --> 15:04.280]  You guys, you're awfully quiet.
[15:04.540 --> 15:06.240]  What's going on over there in Skypeland?
[15:07.460 --> 15:09.640]  We were just enjoying listening to Bobson.
[15:09.860 --> 15:11.180]  You can talk to him, too, you know.
[15:11.320 --> 15:12.840]  You can jump in.
[15:12.980 --> 15:14.340]  He won't bite, not usually.
[15:16.080 --> 15:23.600]  We also would like to anonymously thank the generous user who shared some information with us that we asked for earlier this evening.
[15:23.900 --> 15:25.040]  The other caller, you mean?
[15:25.460 --> 15:30.240]  The other caller who helps solve your COVID passport problem?
[15:31.100 --> 15:35.080]  Yeah, we are grateful that we were helped out with that.
[15:35.600 --> 15:37.120]  And, Gila, you're back.
[15:37.240 --> 15:38.000]  I'm back, yes.
[15:38.580 --> 15:40.720]  Sorry, had a little issue to attend to.
[15:40.860 --> 15:41.220]  Yes.
[15:41.600 --> 15:42.220]  But I'm back.
[15:42.380 --> 15:42.780]  That's understandable.
[15:43.920 --> 15:50.500]  So our phone number again, 802-321-4225, 802-321-HACK, and 833-755-2600.
[15:51.820 --> 16:00.600]  What else is going on in the world of hacking and computers and all sorts of other crazy things?
[16:00.600 --> 16:01.960]  Anything people want to bring up?
[16:05.380 --> 16:05.860]  Well...
[16:05.860 --> 16:07.940]  Come on, it's not 3 in the morning here, for God's sake.
[16:08.580 --> 16:10.220]  Bobson's more live than you guys.
[16:10.260 --> 16:10.620]  Come on.
[16:11.160 --> 16:12.680]  It's only 8.16.
[16:13.960 --> 16:31.900]  You know, while we're on the subject, I mean, you know, I think Rob actually had brought this up on our private list earlier, which is this rather interesting, concurring opinion of Justice Thomas that came out from the Supreme Court a couple of days ago.
[16:32.020 --> 16:33.160]  Yeah, what was that all about?
[16:33.300 --> 16:34.240]  What was the decision?
[16:34.900 --> 16:37.160]  Well, it was...
[16:37.960 --> 16:42.640]  This is a pretty complicated procedural issue, too, right?
[16:42.780 --> 16:57.340]  I mean, this case was up on appeal to the Supreme Court, and the case had to deal with whether or not it was unconstitutional for President Trump to ban somebody from his Twitter account, from social media.
[16:57.380 --> 17:03.420]  And what happened in the Supreme Court was that the Supreme Court actually vacated the lower decision.
[17:03.420 --> 17:04.840]  I mean, they threw it out.
[17:05.000 --> 17:09.940]  They threw out this lower decision that found that it was unconstitutional for President Trump to do that.
[17:10.080 --> 17:18.840]  And the reason being was because the issue at this point was moot, because President Trump was no longer president of the United States.
[17:18.840 --> 17:25.120]  So wait, the Supreme Court basically is saying it's moot because we dragged our asses getting to the case in the first place, and it's no longer relevant?
[17:25.880 --> 17:31.340]  Well, look, it does take a little while to percolate from, you know, I think it was in the D.C.
[17:31.440 --> 17:33.520]  District Court, then I would have to go to the D.C.
[17:33.660 --> 17:35.700]  Circuit, then you have to petition for certiori.
[17:35.880 --> 17:36.060]  Oh, my God, yeah.
[17:37.160 --> 17:39.600]  You need time to brief the issues.
[17:39.600 --> 17:43.120]  It's not like, you know, this happens within a matter of weeks.
[17:43.260 --> 17:47.140]  I mean, Supreme Court briefs take a really, really long time to prepare.
[17:47.140 --> 17:58.900]  I've only done one in my career, and I worked on it day and night for months, and it was a very interesting issue.
[17:59.500 --> 18:13.960]  But so this was a pretty fascinating case because that lower court issue, that lower court issue really hinged on President Trump using his Twitter account essentially as a public forum.
[18:13.960 --> 18:19.140]  It was a place where ideas could be expressed, where people could interact, where he could espouse public policy.
[18:19.340 --> 18:24.780]  He was talking through, you know, what used to be the real Donald Trump account on Twitter to foreign leaders.
[18:24.960 --> 18:26.020]  People could interact with him.
[18:26.240 --> 18:29.820]  It was essentially a public forum.
[18:30.840 --> 18:33.200]  And therefore, he was prevented.
[18:33.380 --> 18:42.140]  It was unconstitutional for him to ban people from participating in his Twitter account, whether they were hurling abuse at him or hurling praise.
[18:42.140 --> 18:43.000]  It didn't really matter.
[18:43.000 --> 18:48.700]  So they vacated this ruling essentially because he wasn't president anymore.
[18:48.920 --> 18:59.900]  And Justice Thomas, not in the majority opinion, but in the recurring opinion, came up with a somewhat controversial but also really interesting issues here that focus on social media.
[19:00.160 --> 19:08.080]  And it's really because of Twitter's power or the social media platforms' power.
[19:08.080 --> 19:24.780]  And because Twitter has the power to essentially turn off Donald Trump, to take away his account, to terminate his account, that means that this is not really a public forum, right?
[19:24.860 --> 19:26.000]  Because it would be different.
[19:26.260 --> 19:29.720]  The government would have most of the power if this was a public forum.
[19:29.720 --> 19:48.980]  So I think we've discussed this before on the show, but there is this tension that we have where if you have Twitter, which is a private party, and I think we can all agree, and I think we all did agree several years ago when they kicked Alex Jones off the platform,
[19:49.140 --> 19:50.780]  that this was something that Twitter could do.
[19:50.780 --> 20:02.400]  So we agree that Alex Jones can be kicked off, we agree that Trump can be kicked off the platform, that Twitter, as a private party, is not subject to the strictures of the First Amendment, and they can censor whomever they want.
[20:02.680 --> 20:16.260]  But at the same time, and here's where the tension arises, portions of the Twitter platform, like Donald Trump's account, were being seen and viewed as public forums.
[20:17.000 --> 20:21.020]  So that's, you know, this contradictory notion that we have.
[20:21.200 --> 20:23.440]  On the one hand, it's a private party that can do whatever the hell it wants.
[20:23.440 --> 20:27.360]  On the other hand, some of Twitter's users have created a public forum.
[20:27.540 --> 20:28.980]  So how do we deal with that?
[20:29.080 --> 20:30.420]  How do we deal with that particular space?
[20:30.740 --> 20:42.740]  And here's where it gets even more interesting, because what Justice Thomas said, and I think there's a lot of wisdom to what he espoused here, was that he analogized Twitter to telephone companies.
[20:42.740 --> 20:52.300]  And he said, look, you know, telcos and telephone companies, you know, they put down this infrastructure of wires, this infrastructure of wires that allowed people to connect to each other.
[20:52.620 --> 21:02.080]  And so, too, have social media platforms created an infrastructure of information by which individuals are connected to each other.
[21:02.080 --> 21:17.300]  And perhaps, then, we should consider regulating social media companies like telephone companies, because they are both providing a means, you know, by which people connect to each other.
[21:18.120 --> 21:21.360]  And they're both providing some kind of public service.
[21:22.880 --> 21:38.760]  And if... and we could then reconcile the fact that they are a private party, but yet providing a public service, and like a telephone company or any kind of other infrastructure-related entity, a social media company would then lose the right to exclude certain people.
[21:39.120 --> 21:47.820]  They would lose that right, perhaps, to exclude Alex Jones, or they would lose the right, perhaps, to censor as they see fit.
[21:48.200 --> 21:51.860]  So, you know, this was a very... I think it was a well-reasoned opinion.
[21:51.860 --> 22:04.480]  It was interesting to me to see him analogize this to telephone companies, analogize this to infrastructure, and to acknowledge that tension that exists between a private party and a public forum.
[22:05.280 --> 22:05.720]  Yeah.
[22:05.860 --> 22:06.160]  It's pretty cool.
[22:06.480 --> 22:08.740]  You know, I have serious problems with that.
[22:08.840 --> 22:10.940]  I mean, Twitter is not the same thing as a phone company.
[22:11.000 --> 22:12.660]  A phone company comes to your house.
[22:12.660 --> 22:15.080]  It's a... it's a... it's a vital service.
[22:15.300 --> 22:20.060]  Now, it's like saying, um, your internet service provider is the same thing as Twitter.
[22:20.240 --> 22:21.480]  Twitter is just a service.
[22:21.480 --> 22:23.060]  It doesn't cost you anything.
[22:23.060 --> 22:24.140]  You can use it.
[22:24.260 --> 22:28.140]  It's... you can go to a different service that works generally the same way.
[22:28.420 --> 22:35.740]  It's not something that, uh, uh, can be considered, uh, like water or gas or electric or...
[22:35.740 --> 22:37.040]  You can live without it.
[22:37.340 --> 22:38.560]  Absolutely can live without it.
[22:38.600 --> 22:40.020]  You can live a good life without it.
[22:40.400 --> 22:57.860]  Um, and I think it's really, really dangerous to say that you have to provide service to the most reprehensible people in the world and treat them as if their opinion, uh, matters the same as, as, uh, as, as people who are reasonable and people who, uh,
[22:58.200 --> 23:00.300]  aren't filled with hate and white supremacy.
[23:00.420 --> 23:00.740]  You can...
[23:00.740 --> 23:01.920]  You know, it's your company.
[23:02.160 --> 23:02.940]  It's your system.
[23:03.160 --> 23:04.000]  I accept that.
[23:04.120 --> 23:12.700]  I'm not, I'm not thrilled with some of the things that, I mean, I got, I got kicked off of Twitter for saying Memphis the other, the other week, you know, it was insane, but it's their system.
[23:12.820 --> 23:17.260]  If that, if that's the rule they want to make crazy as it is, I accept it.
[23:17.560 --> 23:24.400]  But if my, if my internet service provider decides to cut me off because they don't like what I'm saying, that's a very different matter.
[23:24.600 --> 23:25.960]  It's a, it's a hugely different matter.
[23:26.180 --> 23:26.660]  Rob, go ahead.
[23:26.720 --> 23:27.300]  And we have a phone call.
[23:28.320 --> 23:28.640]  Yeah.
[23:28.800 --> 23:29.860]  And, uh, where's that line?
[23:29.980 --> 23:37.920]  Like, uh, you know, some friends of mine run the Mastodon server that I use and, uh, you know, we need that right to ban, you know, trolls and bad actors and, uh, Nazis.
[23:38.120 --> 23:40.680]  You know, I have a crappy little blog on my website, my personal site.
[23:40.780 --> 23:41.600]  People can leave comments.
[23:41.700 --> 23:42.300]  Where's the line?
[23:42.420 --> 23:43.900]  Am I allowed to delete spam?
[23:44.040 --> 23:47.640]  Am I allowed to delete abuse on my own page that I pay to put up?
[23:47.760 --> 23:51.380]  Like, um, it's really, there's, there's really dangerous ground here.
[23:51.940 --> 23:53.680]  Um, to be made by making bad decisions on this.
[23:53.820 --> 23:55.040]  I'm told we don't have a call.
[23:55.160 --> 23:55.660]  I thought we did.
[23:55.980 --> 23:58.500]  Uh, our phone number, 802-321-4225.
[23:58.640 --> 24:00.340]  We did have a call, but they, they disconnected.
[24:00.820 --> 24:04.980]  802-321-4225, toll free, 833-755-2600.
[24:05.240 --> 24:06.360]  Maybe they lost reception.
[24:07.120 --> 24:11.060]  Yeah, maybe their phone company didn't like what they were doing and decided to cut them off.
[24:11.160 --> 24:14.300]  Yeah, they were suspected of saying something against, uh...
[24:14.300 --> 24:14.720]  Yes, Alex.
[24:15.140 --> 24:15.540]  Yeah, Alex.
[24:15.920 --> 24:33.300]  To go back to this point and, and to belabor it a bit, I think what we do have to acknowledge also about Twitter is that how can we treat it both as something that belongs to the public, is a public forum, and, and therefore you cannot ban certain people from participating in it,
[24:33.380 --> 24:39.660]  and yet at the same time say it's a completely private entity that has the right to do whatever the hell it wants to do.
[24:39.880 --> 24:44.680]  You know, we, those are contradictory theories about what Twitter is.
[24:44.680 --> 24:47.720]  Well, I think we're kidding ourselves if we say it belongs to the public.
[24:47.740 --> 24:48.660]  I don't think it does.
[24:48.840 --> 24:55.060]  I think it belongs to Twitter, and it's open to the public, and if, if Twitter doesn't like a particular user, they can kick them out.
[24:55.260 --> 24:58.500]  Look, it's similar, it's similar to 2600 meetings in malls, okay?
[24:58.820 --> 25:04.760]  And we've had this problem before, where we like to think of the mall as a town square, uh, but it's not.
[25:04.760 --> 25:06.440]  It's owned by a private company.
[25:07.120 --> 25:23.580]  And, um, the, the tragedy is that there are very few town squares where you can, you can meet publicly, but, um, we've, we've had this, this, um, the situation come up numerous times where this company says this is against our rules and we have to abide by their rules,
[25:23.760 --> 25:24.500]  even if they're unreasonable.
[25:24.920 --> 25:28.120]  Remember the, the mall in St. Louis where you couldn't wear your baseball cap backwards?
[25:28.640 --> 25:35.420]  Yeah, that was, uh, you know, their prerogative and it's, it's crazy, but it's, it's the way things go when you own something.
[25:36.700 --> 25:43.280]  It also just blows my mind that the, uh, party of, uh, oh, let the free market self-regulate and let private business do what it wants.
[25:43.500 --> 25:44.720]  And then it does something they don't like in there.
[25:44.820 --> 25:45.580]  No, not like that.
[25:46.240 --> 25:46.640]  Exactly.
[25:46.900 --> 25:56.300]  And, you know, this, this past week with the whole, uh, Atlanta thing or, or Georgia where they passed the, uh, uh, the anti-black voting bill, uh, which is basically what it is.
[25:56.820 --> 26:08.460]  Um, and, uh, and, and, and now, uh, the, uh, the, uh, the companies that dare to speak out against this, such as Coca-Cola and Delta, they're being canceled by Republicans who are complaining about cancel culture.
[26:08.460 --> 26:23.300]  The irony is just unbelievable here, but basically they don't seem to see that irony that because they're speaking out and saying something that's against what the Republicans want them to say, they're being punished for that.
[26:24.080 --> 26:25.440]  That's, that's crazy.
[26:25.440 --> 26:28.280]  And, uh, that, that is, that is the reality that we live in right now.
[26:29.620 --> 26:46.100]  Well, perhaps, but I mean, I think the, the issue here too, though, is that if Twitter has the ability to, let's say, ban the president of the United States from using his platform that has been seen to be, and was already found to be a public forum, right?
[26:46.680 --> 26:52.200]  Ordinarily, the government has some kind of control over whatever public forum is, right?
[26:52.200 --> 27:12.040]  So, if we are going to maintain these two different contradictory theories, legal theories of what this thing, this platform Twitter is, then to reconcile them, the way in which we would have to do it would be to not allow Twitter to have absolute power over its own rules.
[27:12.200 --> 27:13.360]  That it will have to be...
[27:13.360 --> 27:14.580]  They're, they're its own rules.
[27:14.760 --> 27:15.660]  How do you do that?
[27:15.820 --> 27:22.420]  I mean, that's like, you're saying, if, if we operated the, the, the voice BBS at 2600, we'd have to allow Trump on.
[27:22.680 --> 27:25.160]  You know, we couldn't kick him off because it's a public forum.
[27:25.300 --> 27:30.500]  So, it has to do with market share too, the type of people using this, the way in which information flows.
[27:30.500 --> 27:39.740]  I mean, look, you know, to Rob's point, I think, you know, it, you know, his blog, it's not, you know, it's something that would be de minimis, right?
[27:39.920 --> 27:48.320]  I mean, but when we're talking about Twitter, we're talking about hundreds of millions, billions of users around the world that are participating in this discussion.
[27:48.380 --> 27:52.660]  And it has, in a large part, become a public forum.
[27:52.800 --> 28:05.840]  I mean, if we don't consider it to be a public forum, then we have to acknowledge that politicians can ban whatever and whomever they want from, from participating in those particular types of, participating in discussions on their profiles.
[28:05.840 --> 28:08.200]  And that, to me, is dangerous as well.
[28:08.440 --> 28:11.320]  I mean, I think it's...
[28:11.320 --> 28:12.940]  Look, as a Twitter user, you can do that.
[28:13.020 --> 28:14.980]  As a Twitter user, you can ban whoever you want.
[28:15.200 --> 28:29.740]  But as President of the United States, that might run into conflict with your responsibilities as that person, where you're not supposed to just shut people up because you don't like what they're saying.
[28:29.860 --> 28:34.840]  So, I think the two things are separate, Twitter rules and presidential rules.
[28:35.360 --> 28:36.000]  Sure.
[28:36.220 --> 28:41.620]  I mean, look, I'm not a very ardent fan of Justice Thomas by any means.
[28:41.740 --> 28:47.240]  But I think that this particular concurring opinion was really fascinating to read.
[28:47.340 --> 28:52.800]  And I would encourage our listeners to give it a read because it's very thoughtfully laid out.
[28:52.920 --> 28:58.940]  And it sets out this tension between what this particular thing is.
[28:59.080 --> 29:00.120]  We haven't really defined it.
[29:00.220 --> 29:01.180]  We're still struggling with it.
[29:01.300 --> 29:07.960]  And I think part of that struggle is that the platform itself and our use of it is continually evolving.
[29:08.380 --> 29:10.420]  We don't necessarily know where it's going to be.
[29:10.540 --> 29:12.620]  And I'll shut up now because it sounds like we have a call.
[29:12.740 --> 29:13.940]  Well, we have... it's weirdness.
[29:14.000 --> 29:14.560]  Do we have a call?
[29:14.820 --> 29:15.440]  Is there a call there?
[29:15.640 --> 29:16.120]  Yeah, yes.
[29:16.340 --> 29:19.560]  That's weird because we're seeing calls come in and you're already here.
[29:19.640 --> 29:20.700]  That's the bug in the system.
[29:21.240 --> 29:21.460]  Okay.
[29:21.560 --> 29:22.240]  Where are you calling from?
[29:23.980 --> 29:24.640]  Tulsa, Oklahoma.
[29:24.960 --> 29:25.700]  My name is Decoded.
[29:25.880 --> 29:26.580]  I have a question.
[29:26.780 --> 29:27.020]  Go ahead.
[29:27.140 --> 29:29.960]  How would you guys resolve... how would you guys resolve this with Twitter?
[29:30.100 --> 29:34.660]  Like if say you were Jack Dorsey, how would you go about it from your approach?
[29:35.040 --> 29:39.180]  I mean, you know, my view is my company, my rules.
[29:39.460 --> 29:40.460]  You know, simple as that.
[29:40.620 --> 29:42.580]  And if you don't like them, use a different company.
[29:42.780 --> 29:46.220]  What I think as a user, I think Twitter is way too big.
[29:46.400 --> 29:48.280]  I think there should be 20 Twitters.
[29:49.000 --> 29:59.200]  And, you know, having just one place where everybody goes is unhealthy because then you have situations where you disagree with the company and you feel left out as a result.
[29:59.320 --> 30:06.560]  But again, as far as users, users have the right to do what they want as users within the rules of the company.
[30:07.260 --> 30:16.860]  But again, if you're president of the United States, you have different responsibilities that you can't do the same things that somebody like me can do to the people that follow you.
[30:17.000 --> 30:18.980]  Otherwise, you're violating your trust to the public.
[30:19.820 --> 30:21.440]  Have you guys checked out Clubhouse?
[30:21.680 --> 30:22.960]  The form is very different.
[30:23.200 --> 30:23.860]  It's very cool.
[30:23.980 --> 30:24.660]  It's very trendy.
[30:25.080 --> 30:26.520]  I've heard about Clubhouse.
[30:26.720 --> 30:28.160]  Alex, you're smiling, Alex.
[30:28.300 --> 30:29.180]  Alex knows about it.
[30:29.280 --> 30:29.620]  What do you know?
[30:31.180 --> 30:32.920]  Well, what do I feel about it?
[30:32.960 --> 30:44.620]  I mean, I've been saying to the guys, caller that, and the girl, rather, that we should consider somehow simulcasting on Clubhouse as well as YouTube.
[30:44.920 --> 30:45.620]  What do you think about that?
[30:46.780 --> 30:47.780]  I think that's awesome.
[30:47.920 --> 30:48.500]  Come over here.
[30:48.620 --> 30:50.460]  I've been using that for the past few days, and I love it.
[30:51.480 --> 30:51.840]  Wow.
[30:52.100 --> 30:53.600]  Well, I've never used it.
[30:53.680 --> 30:57.820]  I don't even know how to access it, but I'm open to checking out any new platforms.
[30:59.980 --> 31:02.160]  Well, you're open when a caller suggests it.
[31:02.260 --> 31:05.060]  When I suggested it, I don't remember you being so open.
[31:08.630 --> 31:10.110]  Okay, that's QAnon for sure.
[31:10.950 --> 31:11.910]  Did we lose the call?
[31:12.030 --> 31:12.790]  Is the caller still there?
[31:12.790 --> 31:16.570]  Yeah, it dropped, but yeah, we are looking into that.
[31:16.750 --> 31:26.270]  It is platform-specific, which means we need to create a nice little sandbox for it to exist in for our purposes.
[31:26.450 --> 31:31.530]  Yeah, I'm not open to us having more work to do, because we do plenty of work already just to do this.
[31:31.710 --> 31:35.010]  So if it works, if we just throw a switch, and we're on Clubhouse, great.
[31:35.110 --> 31:44.290]  If we have to have more people coordinating more things, and there's all sorts of other issues that could go wrong, I don't know if we really need to do that as well.
[31:44.410 --> 31:53.350]  Long-term, we're open to it, but for the moving parts just right now, it might be more than we can choose, so to speak.
[31:53.490 --> 31:56.430]  Yeah, but if you have the ability to put us on Clubhouse, go ahead, do it.
[31:56.530 --> 31:57.330]  And you put us on whatever.
[31:57.550 --> 32:02.890]  We have been reading some articles about it, like the history or some of the similarities to older systems.
[32:03.190 --> 32:05.690]  I think someone posted an article this week about it.
[32:06.510 --> 32:08.850]  So we want to hear more about it.
[32:09.130 --> 32:17.750]  So it's weird, the system we have, because we have the phone hooked up to our television, where we see a call coming in.
[32:17.830 --> 32:19.190]  In fact, we see one right now coming in.
[32:19.870 --> 32:21.430]  And we can see that's from Detroit.
[32:21.830 --> 32:22.290]  Yeah, we know.
[32:23.250 --> 32:27.350]  And those calls come in even when we're talking to somebody.
[32:27.710 --> 32:30.330]  A call waiting, I think, shows up, and it goes to voicemail.
[32:30.490 --> 32:32.930]  Anyway, Michigan, are you on the phone?
[32:34.350 --> 32:35.450]  Yes, sir, I am.
[32:35.450 --> 32:36.970]  Are you surprised that we know you're in Michigan?
[32:38.230 --> 32:38.690]  Oh, no.
[32:38.990 --> 32:40.390]  Actually, actually, I'm not.
[32:42.270 --> 32:54.850]  So I'm just calling in to see if you guys had intentionally disabled the chat on there, because it looks like you've got 30-some people there, and it'd be cool to chat with the live watchers.
[32:54.990 --> 32:56.230]  Oh, you mean on YouTube?
[32:56.550 --> 32:57.410]  The answer is yes.
[32:58.170 --> 33:03.390]  I think maybe it was turned off because people were being stupid, but that always happens.
[33:03.390 --> 33:06.190]  Well, basically, we didn't have as many people either.
[33:06.210 --> 33:07.250]  It was an experiment.
[33:07.470 --> 33:11.010]  So it has been off since we started doing this.
[33:11.370 --> 33:13.490]  That could change, but the answer is yes.
[33:13.670 --> 33:17.930]  And if you're chatting on YouTube while listening to it, it doesn't seem like you'll call.
[33:18.110 --> 33:19.730]  It doesn't seem like you'll be listening.
[33:19.990 --> 33:20.930]  And I don't know.
[33:21.030 --> 33:22.590]  To me, it's a distraction.
[33:22.870 --> 33:25.870]  But if enough people really want it, I guess we could turn it back on.
[33:26.050 --> 33:26.770]  The other thing is...
[33:27.590 --> 33:28.150]  Sorry, go ahead.
[33:28.190 --> 33:28.910]  It would be pretty cool.
[33:28.910 --> 33:34.330]  The other thing is the conversation there, I think, becomes part of the content as it's archived.
[33:34.510 --> 33:35.430]  I'm not 100% sure.
[33:35.550 --> 33:36.810]  Maybe someone can tell us about that.
[33:36.930 --> 33:45.950]  But, you know, people like to test things, and maybe what they want to post there isn't exactly what we want to archive forever and ever.
[33:46.130 --> 33:47.570]  But, you know, maybe it's cool.
[33:47.710 --> 33:48.230]  Maybe we'll do it.
[33:48.250 --> 33:50.490]  It just seems like there's a chat everywhere you go.
[33:50.650 --> 33:52.710]  You know, you buy something on Amazon.
[33:52.710 --> 33:53.910]  There's a chat about it.
[33:54.030 --> 33:54.510]  There's surveys.
[33:54.690 --> 33:54.970]  It just...
[33:54.970 --> 33:55.850]  It never ends.
[33:55.850 --> 33:56.030]  It's...
[33:56.030 --> 33:57.770]  God forbid, you get something on eBay.
[33:57.770 --> 34:01.550]  It's like a relationship you're going to be having for the rest of your life with the person you bought it from.
[34:02.790 --> 34:06.170]  But again, you know, if people want this, who are we to stand in the way?
[34:06.310 --> 34:06.990]  We'll look at it.
[34:07.130 --> 34:07.870]  I think it would be fun.
[34:08.090 --> 34:08.390]  Yeah, maybe.
[34:08.390 --> 34:12.230]  Like, I'm just spamming the 2600 Keybase room, you know, kind of like...
[34:12.230 --> 34:22.690]  What if we just had, like, we can say today is chat day, and like once a month we have the chat open on YouTube, and all kinds of people can come and communicate in that way.
[34:22.830 --> 34:23.630]  Rob, you have something to say?
[34:24.270 --> 34:31.330]  Yeah, I mean, our whole goal with doing this was to do as much as we can to replicate taking calls in the studio.
[34:31.930 --> 34:36.690]  And I think maybe enabling the chat on YouTube would put us a little out of scope there.
[34:36.970 --> 34:41.350]  So yeah, it wasn't part of the immediate reason we put this together.
[34:42.670 --> 34:46.630]  You know, maybe there's something to the possibility of enabling it one day.
[34:46.790 --> 34:51.590]  But I think what we want to do, you know, not to sound too selfish, but we want to speak with you.
[34:51.850 --> 34:52.750]  And we can't do that in the chat.
[34:52.830 --> 34:54.370]  We want to speak with you on the phone.
[34:54.630 --> 34:57.370]  Yeah, and then people are telling you what to say when you're talking to us.
[34:57.510 --> 35:00.210]  And then you're getting coached by all the... And then there's the IRC channel.
[35:00.270 --> 35:02.970]  Isn't that an IRC channel of people chatting during the show as well?
[35:03.110 --> 35:06.310]  It's like there's more people chatting about the show than are listening to the show.
[35:06.450 --> 35:12.870]  But there may be people that don't want to talk, and they are uncomfortable being like on the air talking.
[35:12.890 --> 35:14.110]  So maybe they want to ask a question.
[35:14.170 --> 35:14.870]  Maybe I'm one of them.
[35:14.970 --> 35:16.190]  Maybe I want to go on the chat.
[35:16.850 --> 35:25.130]  I'll just go in the other room We do encourage people who want to get in touch with us, but not use the phone, to send us email at OTH at 2600.com.
[35:25.310 --> 35:28.370]  Or if you use Twitter, you can tweet at us there at Hacker Radio Show.
[35:28.970 --> 35:29.850]  Is that confusing enough?
[35:31.230 --> 35:31.590]  Cool.
[35:31.890 --> 35:33.010]  Thank you all for answering the question.
[35:33.250 --> 35:33.990]  Thank you for calling.
[35:35.050 --> 35:35.610]  Take care.
[35:35.690 --> 35:36.030]  Take care.
[35:36.350 --> 35:36.730]  Thank you.
[35:36.870 --> 35:37.190]  Take care.
[35:37.470 --> 35:38.270]  Thanks for listening.
[35:39.890 --> 35:41.570]  Michigan's having a tough time with this virus.
[35:41.710 --> 35:42.890]  I just want to say that.
[35:43.090 --> 35:45.290]  So hopefully that listener is okay.
[35:45.890 --> 35:49.030]  Things are changing really quickly, though, with a lot of this stuff.
[35:49.230 --> 35:57.670]  So whether it's appointments or just treatment and triaging crises like this.
[35:58.050 --> 35:59.810]  So there's definitely hope.
[35:59.990 --> 36:01.450]  There's help all around.
[36:01.690 --> 36:06.270]  And hopefully communities are addressing and confronting this stuff with courage.
[36:06.470 --> 36:09.690]  Now that we've gotten our vaccines, we can start taking care of the rest of us.
[36:09.930 --> 36:12.930]  And we're getting our teeth cleaned and just maintaining ourselves.
[36:12.930 --> 36:15.330]  You know, things we haven't done in the last year.
[36:15.690 --> 36:18.910]  And it's safe to go out and get these things done now.
[36:19.230 --> 36:30.750]  It's weird to just a little bit be able to look ahead with, like, I don't know, newfound things that just were not on the table before.
[36:30.750 --> 36:31.950]  I don't know how else to say it.
[36:32.250 --> 36:32.470]  Yeah.
[36:32.630 --> 36:34.250]  So that's a kind of exciting thing.
[36:34.830 --> 36:35.310]  Absolutely.
[36:35.610 --> 36:35.850]  Alex?
[36:38.810 --> 36:39.710]  You're muted, Alex.
[36:40.550 --> 36:40.770]  Oh.
[36:41.110 --> 36:42.410]  No, I was...
[36:42.910 --> 36:45.370]  I didn't actually have anything to comment on there.
[36:45.370 --> 36:46.510]  I was just gesticulating.
[36:46.830 --> 36:47.270]  Ah, okay.
[36:48.250 --> 36:49.270]  You're waving the phone at me, Kyle.
[36:49.330 --> 36:50.070]  Does that mean there's a phone call?
[36:50.550 --> 36:51.110]  Not yet.
[36:51.110 --> 36:53.130]  I was going to give out the phone number.
[36:53.130 --> 36:53.950]  Oh, give out the phone number.
[36:53.950 --> 36:58.170]  833-755-2600.
[36:58.410 --> 37:02.250]  I like how you pause on the 2600 as if you're just as unsure of that digit.
[37:02.250 --> 37:06.530]  But, yeah, okay, 833-755-2600 is the toll-free number.
[37:06.650 --> 37:07.710]  I don't know where that goes.
[37:07.950 --> 37:09.270]  It might route all around the world.
[37:09.290 --> 37:09.690]  Who knows?
[37:11.070 --> 37:19.930]  Or the direct number, which goes to our other direct number, 802-321-4225, which spells 802-321-HACK.
[37:21.150 --> 37:22.310]  And who knows?
[37:22.370 --> 37:26.150]  Maybe we'll have another cool number to share in the weeks ahead.
[37:26.330 --> 37:29.950]  The coolest number, though, will be the one when we're back in the studio.
[37:29.950 --> 37:33.090]  And we can take calls directly on a regular show.
[37:33.950 --> 37:35.670]  I hope that that day comes soon.
[37:35.950 --> 37:37.910]  Or soon enough.
[37:38.490 --> 37:39.190]  Go ahead, Rob.
[37:39.250 --> 37:42.690]  And speaking of which, we're not on the airwaves right now.
[37:42.810 --> 37:46.810]  But we do still believe that you should support BAI and keep them doing what they do.
[37:46.950 --> 37:54.450]  And become a member within the next three and a half hours or so to get your place voting on the upcoming referendum.
[37:54.450 --> 38:02.050]  So if you call 212-209-2950, that's another very cool number at which you can show your support for what we do here.
[38:02.070 --> 38:05.390]  Or go to give2wbai.org on the web.
[38:05.570 --> 38:06.890]  It's a good way to hit the ground running.
[38:07.050 --> 38:18.550]  Because as soon as you support the station with that $25 pledge before midnight, you'll be part of the vote, the historic vote that's going to be coming up in the next couple of weeks.
[38:18.550 --> 38:19.690]  I think it's happening in May.
[38:20.850 --> 38:25.610]  And that will pretty much decide not only the future of the station, the future of the Pacifica network.
[38:25.930 --> 38:29.470]  So if you want a say in that, that's how you get a say.
[38:29.730 --> 38:34.590]  Become a voting member by pledging a minimum of $25 before midnight.
[38:37.330 --> 38:40.210]  212-209-2950.
[38:40.470 --> 38:43.250]  Or give2wbai.org.
[38:43.790 --> 38:45.290]  Alex, I think you have something to say this time.
[38:45.290 --> 38:56.730]  Yeah, this issue of the referendum, I think it's forbidden to talk about the referendum specifically, or the substance of the referendum while we're on the air.
[38:56.870 --> 38:57.190]  Is that correct?
[38:57.230 --> 39:03.950]  And I know we're not on the air now, but I'd still like to keep that going just for the sake of, I don't even know.
[39:03.950 --> 39:07.290]  I don't even know what we're supposed to do, we're not supposed to do.
[39:07.430 --> 39:12.090]  Let's keep it simple for now and not discuss any of that.
[39:12.090 --> 39:20.870]  But what we definitely can do, from the Hacker point of view, we want you to look at the referendum, get all the information available, and vote your conscience.
[39:21.010 --> 39:22.070]  We can tell you to do that.
[39:22.230 --> 39:22.470]  Yes.
[39:22.590 --> 39:27.230]  And you can write to us, and we will be open with you through email, I believe.
[39:27.390 --> 39:29.170]  And we might have different ideas and opinions.
[39:30.150 --> 39:33.990]  But for now, all we can say is support the station, and you'll be a part of the conversation.
[39:33.990 --> 39:46.290]  212-209-2950, give to WBAI.org, and call us, talk on the air, talk on the overtime show, 802-321-HACK, 833-755-2600.
[39:46.550 --> 39:48.810]  We're on Twitter as well, at Hacker Radio Show.
[39:48.970 --> 39:51.130]  Yes, but you can't go on the air from there, can you?
[39:52.550 --> 40:00.730]  I bet one or the other of us could check that occasionally, too, just like we were talking about with chat channels and that stuff.
[40:00.810 --> 40:04.610]  It is very hard to manage when you're having discussions with people, and that is the point of this.
[40:04.810 --> 40:19.030]  You know, Alex, with your eagerness to get involved with the clubhouse, or to get invited into the clubhouse, maybe what we should do is every week have a different outlet that we broadcast the show on.
[40:19.830 --> 40:21.330]  So, it'll be, you know...
[40:21.330 --> 40:23.710]  That sounds like exactly what we didn't want to do.
[40:23.890 --> 40:24.410]  More work.
[40:24.590 --> 40:25.190]  Lots more work.
[40:25.430 --> 40:27.370]  Because I'm just signing it to Alex, all right?
[40:27.370 --> 40:28.150]  What's in your mug?
[40:28.150 --> 40:28.690]  He's doing it all.
[40:28.850 --> 40:29.450]  What are you drinking?
[40:29.590 --> 40:30.250]  What is in the mug?
[40:30.450 --> 40:30.690]  Come on.
[40:30.870 --> 40:31.550]  Nothing, nothing.
[40:31.790 --> 40:34.850]  And that's another thing I want to talk about, is why is there nothing in the mug?
[40:37.930 --> 40:38.510]  All right.
[40:38.810 --> 40:41.210]  I think maybe we're getting towards the end of overtime.
[40:41.210 --> 40:46.910]  If anybody wants to call us before we completely pass out, do so now, please.
[40:47.670 --> 40:56.490]  There are a lot of stories and kind of interesting things going on with, of course, the various hacks.
[40:57.650 --> 40:59.950]  SolarWinds was one of them, and the Outlook stuff.
[40:59.950 --> 41:02.570]  That all is ongoing and quite exciting.
[41:02.990 --> 41:05.310]  And I think there was another thing that I saw in the news.
[41:05.310 --> 41:08.290]  Did anybody hear about this White Lies Matter prank?
[41:09.410 --> 41:11.310]  White Lies Matter or White Lives Matter?
[41:11.310 --> 41:12.110]  It was a kidnapping.
[41:12.550 --> 41:15.310]  Wait, are you saying lies, L-I-E-S or L-I-V-E-S?
[41:16.250 --> 41:16.650]  Lies.
[41:16.650 --> 41:18.030]  L-I-E-S.
[41:18.170 --> 41:18.310]  Yes.
[41:18.590 --> 41:18.750]  Okay.
[41:18.750 --> 41:23.470]  I kind of like that phrase, but I haven't heard anything about this.
[41:23.490 --> 41:23.890]  Now I'm embarrassed.
[41:24.130 --> 41:30.290]  I would have prepared if no one... I thought maybe other people might have known about it.
[41:30.310 --> 41:32.030]  I'm sorry for mentioning it and being unprepared.
[41:32.170 --> 41:38.870]  But basically, what I think happened, I don't know what state it's in, but a Confederate monument was kidnapped.
[41:39.990 --> 41:43.210]  And the group that did it is White Lies Matter.
[41:43.570 --> 41:43.730]  Okay.
[41:43.970 --> 41:44.350]  All right.
[41:44.870 --> 41:49.850]  And they're holding it for ransom, or they were.
[41:49.850 --> 41:52.870]  I'm not sure the status of it yet.
[41:52.890 --> 41:54.030]  How would that work exactly?
[41:54.030 --> 41:59.870]  So they have it for ransom, and they're threatening to turn it into a toilet if their demands aren't met.
[42:00.010 --> 42:01.030]  These are some skilled people.
[42:01.030 --> 42:01.730]  I'll say that.
[42:01.730 --> 42:03.530]  All I'm saying is I like this hack.
[42:03.810 --> 42:05.750]  Well, I mean, they definitely have ideas.
[42:06.290 --> 42:08.970]  I'm kind of... I want to know more.
[42:09.170 --> 42:12.230]  It's the Jefferson Davis Monument.
[42:16.010 --> 42:24.650]  And they are threatening, basically, to modify it if their demands are not met.
[42:24.650 --> 42:25.690]  You mean improve it.
[42:25.710 --> 42:27.650]  This is in Selma, Alabama.
[42:28.010 --> 42:41.530]  And the ransom, specifically, is they're demanding that the United Daughters of Confederacy hangs a banner bearing a quote from Assata Shakur outside its headquarters in Richmond, Virginia.
[42:42.470 --> 42:52.170]  They want... they're demanding it's hung for 24 hours beginning on Friday, the anniversary of the Confederacy's Civil War surrender.
[42:53.890 --> 42:54.690]  Yeah, I...
[42:54.690 --> 42:56.290]  I don't know any updates on this.
[42:56.410 --> 42:58.410]  This might be old news, but I don't know.
[42:58.470 --> 42:59.950]  And I don't even really remember where I heard it.
[43:00.030 --> 43:01.090]  Isn't there a date on the story?
[43:02.250 --> 43:03.930]  I hate when there's no date on the story.
[43:04.070 --> 43:04.190]  I'm sorry.
[43:04.510 --> 43:05.210]  I had a...
[43:05.210 --> 43:05.370]  Yesterday.
[43:05.510 --> 43:06.390]  I have a story from yesterday.
[43:06.630 --> 43:07.530]  It was yesterday, I think.
[43:07.650 --> 43:07.810]  Okay.
[43:08.190 --> 43:08.690]  Thank you.
[43:08.690 --> 43:11.890]  Isn't there a Jefferson Davis Street in Brooklyn or something?
[43:12.170 --> 43:18.470]  There's a couple of Confederate streets near... I think it's an army base or something.
[43:18.470 --> 43:25.350]  It's hard to get to, but it's still officially named after Confederate war people in Brooklyn.
[43:26.250 --> 43:26.890]  Well...
[43:26.890 --> 43:28.190]  I mean, that's crazy.
[43:29.490 --> 43:34.930]  There... you know, look under your carpets and, you know, under leaf piles.
[43:34.930 --> 43:37.330]  You might have some sort of monument around you.
[43:37.430 --> 43:38.730]  This country's got a lot.
[43:38.910 --> 43:39.450]  Yeah, yeah.
[43:41.770 --> 43:47.190]  Failure to do so will result in the monument, an ornate stone chair, immediately being turned into a toilet.
[43:47.350 --> 43:47.990]  Oh, it's a chair?
[43:48.610 --> 43:49.050]  Yes.
[43:49.510 --> 43:54.130]  If they do not display the banner, not only will we return the chair intact, but we will clean it.
[43:54.250 --> 44:05.010]  You know, I don't profess to be a Civil War expert or, you know, know a lot about the Confederacy, but how in God's name is a chair, a monument to anybody?
[44:05.190 --> 44:06.290]  How does that work?
[44:07.490 --> 44:08.390]  I don't know.
[44:08.610 --> 44:10.310]  I haven't seen a picture of it.
[44:10.310 --> 44:11.550]  I'm not sure what it depicts.
[44:12.530 --> 44:15.230]  Is it a monument to Jefferson Davis's chair?
[44:16.750 --> 44:21.670]  Or he's made... your best guess is as good as mine at this point.
[44:22.470 --> 44:23.530]  I've got something.
[44:23.710 --> 44:23.930]  Okay.
[44:24.650 --> 44:26.330]  Sorry, reading from the Washington Post.
[44:26.330 --> 44:32.130]  First, the Jefferson Davis Memorial Chair, which is first reported missing from Live Oak Cemetery...
[44:32.130 --> 44:33.350]  It is a memorial chair.
[44:33.450 --> 44:33.670]  Wow.
[44:33.790 --> 44:34.010]  Okay.
[44:34.350 --> 44:47.310]  ...is an ornately carved stone chair that was dedicated in 1893 to the Confederate president's memory and is estimated to be worth $500,000.
[44:47.910 --> 44:49.070]  Oh, hell yeah.
[44:49.090 --> 44:50.110]  Make that into a toilet.
[44:50.430 --> 44:51.230]  For sure.
[44:51.490 --> 44:53.210]  Did you see the number that just called us?
[44:53.390 --> 44:54.210]  All zeros?
[44:54.210 --> 44:55.010]  No.
[44:55.290 --> 44:55.530]  Yes.
[44:55.770 --> 44:56.530]  We have a phone call from...
[44:56.530 --> 44:56.750]  Wow.
[44:56.870 --> 44:57.370]  Hello, caller.
[44:57.530 --> 44:59.130]  You really masked your caller ID.
[45:00.530 --> 45:00.970]  500.
[45:01.630 --> 45:02.290]  I did?
[45:02.530 --> 45:03.450]  Yeah, all zeros.
[45:03.910 --> 45:05.850]  We have no idea who you are or where you are.
[45:05.970 --> 45:06.390]  Congratulations.
[45:07.490 --> 45:08.910]  Uh, well, thank you.
[45:09.410 --> 45:14.790]  I was just calling in to give more details, but I think Gila found them out for herself.
[45:15.370 --> 45:16.350]  So it was...
[45:16.350 --> 45:18.610]  It must be that 800, that 833 number.
[45:18.830 --> 45:24.690]  It masked... because I'm not saying that you don't have the ability to completely hide your identity and...
[45:24.690 --> 45:30.950]  I do not have any special ability, but I do have a block on caller ID.
[45:31.550 --> 45:32.090]  That's it.
[45:32.290 --> 45:32.470]  Okay.
[45:32.590 --> 45:33.430]  Well, that might be enough.
[45:33.430 --> 45:35.430]  Although it's usually not enough for toll-free numbers.
[45:35.710 --> 45:40.410]  You know, if you block your caller ID, toll-free numbers use A and I, and a lot of people don't realize that.
[45:40.410 --> 45:48.270]  Maybe it may be a combination of her consumer, her choice as a consumer, as well as our good friend having set this up in a certain way, but we don't, we don't know.
[45:48.370 --> 45:49.010]  We'd have to verify that.
[45:49.150 --> 45:50.610]  She clearly has a ton of skills.
[45:50.770 --> 45:51.730]  She's figured out the passport.
[45:52.010 --> 45:53.550]  She's gotten the vaccines.
[45:53.830 --> 45:57.970]  She's now defeated the, uh, the message rate system that the phone company uses.
[45:58.130 --> 45:58.870]  It's gotta be her.
[45:59.150 --> 46:00.430]  Uh, you're on a roll, caller.
[46:00.590 --> 46:01.090]  You're on a roll.
[46:01.930 --> 46:02.610]  Thank you.
[46:03.090 --> 46:21.090]  Uh, let me, um, just mention, uh, I don't know why anyone would not be able to do it by midnight, but I suppose that if they missed the midnight deadline, they would have three extra hours in which to join one of the California stations.
[46:21.210 --> 46:21.910]  Oh, that's interesting.
[46:21.950 --> 46:23.190]  That's thinking like a hacker.
[46:23.330 --> 46:23.450]  Yeah.
[46:23.570 --> 46:34.470]  I guess you could join KPFA or KPFK, one of them, uh, because it's, it's three hours earlier out there and you would meet the midnight deadline or maybe it's just a midnight deadline, Pacific time for everybody.
[46:34.610 --> 46:39.290]  I don't know, but, uh, let's not, let's not be, uh, too, too close to the wire there.
[46:39.290 --> 46:46.570]  Let's, uh, call in the support, but it's very important for people to, to vote against the new day scoundrels.
[46:46.910 --> 46:47.310]  Okay.
[46:47.390 --> 46:52.350]  Well, we, we, we, we're not, we're not going to take positions on the air or even on this show yet.
[46:52.810 --> 46:53.270]  All right.
[46:53.330 --> 46:55.710]  So let's, we have to, we have to leave it at that.
[46:55.870 --> 46:58.590]  It's just to, to, to make things a little bit easier.
[46:58.910 --> 47:00.850]  There'll be plenty of time to, to discuss all this.
[47:01.510 --> 47:01.910]  Okay.
[47:02.270 --> 47:04.970]  Uh, there was another thing I wanted to mention.
[47:05.490 --> 47:10.230]  You, you mentioned that line that went all the way around, remember?
[47:10.650 --> 47:12.170]  The what that went all the way where?
[47:12.470 --> 47:14.890]  Uh, the line for people being vaccinated.
[47:14.910 --> 47:17.190]  Oh, oh, uh, Alex, you mentioned that.
[47:17.270 --> 47:20.050]  You're talking about my, my line down, down and around seven.
[47:20.570 --> 47:21.070]  Yes.
[47:21.290 --> 47:21.290]  Yeah.
[47:22.130 --> 47:28.310]  Um, I'm concerned, uh, with the, the vaccinations being opened up like that.
[47:28.510 --> 47:43.090]  It makes, uh, older people who, you know, were previously, you know, previously qualified, but didn't, doesn't have the skills to, to grab an appointment.
[47:43.590 --> 47:51.770]  Uh, they, they're competing with all these young people who know exactly what to do and they're just being elbowed out.
[47:52.150 --> 47:59.030]  Uh, I'm afraid that opening it up like that is a little bit too much too soon.
[48:00.050 --> 48:13.250]  And I also wonder, does anyone know, uh, this deadline for, um, uh, all adults being vaccinated, does that include 16 to 18 year olds?
[48:13.450 --> 48:16.430]  If you're talking about the April 19th, uh, opening up?
[48:16.510 --> 48:16.990]  Yes, it does.
[48:17.710 --> 48:18.050]  Uh-huh.
[48:18.050 --> 48:18.590]  Uh, okay.
[48:20.590 --> 48:20.990]  Okay.
[48:21.870 --> 48:22.270]  Okay.
[48:22.510 --> 48:22.770]  Thanks.
[48:22.830 --> 48:25.390]  Uh, thanks for your call and, uh, we'll, we'll talk to you again.
[48:26.170 --> 48:26.490]  Bye-bye.
[48:27.010 --> 48:29.450]  So it's, uh, young adults and adults, I guess.
[48:29.570 --> 48:36.470]  I would like to think, uh, those people, uh, that, uh, she's referring to would be helping everybody else to get the vaccine.
[48:36.610 --> 48:54.050]  I think that is, uh, if you are between a certain, maybe a younger person, a student in that age group, if you help one or two other people somehow, maybe in your family or your, uh, social group somehow, um, maybe that, you know, once you're taken care of and,
[48:54.190 --> 49:06.090]  you know, you can extend your flexibility and ability to, uh, move around or at least put not being vaccinated behind you, you can, you know, spend a little bit of time helping someone.
[49:06.310 --> 49:07.450]  That's the hope at least.
[49:07.550 --> 49:20.950]  I've got a couple of, uh, Twitter accounts that, uh, I think people should follow, uh, in order to, um, um, to basically, um, get as many possible, um, uh, appointments as possible.
[49:21.170 --> 49:34.590]  Uh, to coin a phrase, uh, New Jersey has, has one, um, C-19 Vax updates, C-19 V-A-X-X updates, helping eligible New Jersey residents secure a COVID-19 vaccine appointment.
[49:34.750 --> 49:38.510]  I've actually used this, uh, to help some people in New Jersey and it works well.
[49:38.710 --> 49:46.810]  Um, you just have to, um, um, uh, follow that account, maybe have it alert your phone when something new happens and, and jump on it and you'll probably get an appointment.
[49:47.330 --> 49:53.910]  Again, uh, C-19 V-A-X-X updates is the Twitter account.
[49:54.670 --> 49:58.170]  And, uh, I had another one on the screen, but it just, it just fell off the screen.
[49:58.330 --> 50:00.410]  If you bear with me a moment, I'll, um, I'll find it.
[50:00.630 --> 50:01.770]  Uh, Alex looks like you have something to say.
[50:02.490 --> 50:02.890]  Yes.
[50:03.010 --> 50:11.810]  To the caller's point about opening this up to, to younger people, I appreciate, you her bringing this up because I hadn't thought about it that way.
[50:12.330 --> 50:29.090]  And, and I think what she said was really well-founded in that if this is, if this is completely opened up to younger people, the older people that had difficulty with the vet with scheduling a vaccine in the first place are going to be pushed farther and farther down this line.
[50:29.450 --> 50:34.570]  And, and I think that's absolutely well-founded concern and I really hope that it doesn't happen.
[50:34.910 --> 50:59.170]  Um, you know, we can try to, to goad people into public service and, and helping out in whatever way that they can, but the long and the short of it is, I think that the caller's point can indicate a complete and abject failure on the part of our local governments in making sure that senior citizens had appropriate access to vaccine scheduling assistance.
[50:59.590 --> 51:17.490]  Uh, this is an incredibly difficult, crazy system, a patchwork of, of scheduling and event bright and, you know, privately built systems, you know, sometimes from drugstore to drugstore, that it was difficult even for somebody like me to figure it out,
[51:17.770 --> 51:27.250]  to expect senior citizens to do that without any assistance from the government, without somebody essentially holding their hand to make sure that they were first online to get the vaccine.
[51:27.450 --> 51:30.330]  Uh, now opening this up to, to more and more people.
[51:30.730 --> 51:35.870]  I look, I think it's a great point, but I think what we can point to is that we need to do this better.
[51:36.010 --> 51:43.790]  We need to do this faster and, and we need to, uh, really focus on the education and assistance to our, our senior citizens.
[51:44.070 --> 51:45.730]  God forbid there's a next time around.
[51:45.910 --> 51:48.010]  Alex, what do you mean there is no assistance?
[51:49.850 --> 51:52.190]  Well, what's, what evidence of that you have?
[51:52.910 --> 51:53.790]  What evidence?
[51:54.290 --> 51:59.430]  I mean, can you tell me about specific assistance that's been giving to senior citizens to help them?
[51:59.630 --> 52:00.930]  There's a phone number people can call.
[52:01.290 --> 52:02.630]  Another 833 number, by the way.
[52:02.770 --> 52:02.930]  Yeah.
[52:03.090 --> 52:04.010]  My mother called that.
[52:04.230 --> 52:08.870]  She spent about five hours on hold, got disconnected, spent another five hours on hold.
[52:08.990 --> 52:10.610]  I mean, it was a complete nightmare.
[52:10.870 --> 52:13.770]  I called it once and I got somebody in 10 minutes who was extremely helpful.
[52:13.790 --> 52:18.770]  Now I'm not saying everybody gets the same luck, but, uh, but again, it does work.
[52:19.470 --> 52:23.110]  That might be the case in New York, but in Florida, it's going to be completely different.
[52:23.530 --> 52:25.730]  You know, we're talking about, I thought we were talking about New York.
[52:26.490 --> 52:26.890]  Sure.
[52:27.130 --> 52:39.450]  Well, New York, but, but the problem though is, you know, endemic to the entire country because this was a local issue, because these were logistics for local government to figure out, there was no consistency across the board.
[52:39.610 --> 52:42.130]  There was no consistency across the United States of America.
[52:42.330 --> 52:43.490]  Isn't that a federal failure though?
[52:44.390 --> 52:44.730]  Absolutely.
[52:44.810 --> 52:52.270]  Well, it could be, but you know, how can we expect the federal government to do it when they don't know how the local government is going to implement it?
[52:52.370 --> 53:03.310]  So whatever the local government's plan was, they did not include, I think the education and the handholding that senior citizens needed to make sure that they got access to the vaccine as early as possible.
[53:03.590 --> 53:03.850]  Uh-huh.
[53:04.090 --> 53:04.970]  They got a head start.
[53:05.610 --> 53:07.030]  That will cost lives too.
[53:08.090 --> 53:08.850]  No doubt.
[53:09.130 --> 53:09.370]  Yeah.
[53:09.510 --> 53:12.650]  You know, I think a lot of this should be federalized.
[53:12.750 --> 53:20.430]  I think, uh, Biden is, is, is reaching out and making a lot of mandates that, um, states have to follow.
[53:20.910 --> 53:25.190]  I think, you know, it, can you point, can you point to a state that's done it better?
[53:26.830 --> 53:27.210]  No.
[53:27.430 --> 53:27.650]  Yeah.
[53:28.030 --> 53:31.190]  I ask everybody that, you know, and I, I, people.
[53:31.870 --> 53:33.650]  You also bring up a good point too, though.
[53:33.710 --> 53:39.170]  I mean, I think more and more of this is becoming standardized through the federal government, through certain mandates of Biden.
[53:39.270 --> 53:42.930]  And that's a good thing, but you have to remember what he was coming into.
[53:43.170 --> 53:43.290]  Uh-huh.
[53:43.730 --> 53:53.650]  We found out right before Trump finally decided he was going to leave office that there, that the plan was literally that there was no plan for the rollout of the vaccine.
[53:53.650 --> 54:01.770]  It was entirely left to the discretion of the states without any kind of overarching principles, assistance, even, even federal hotlines.
[54:02.670 --> 54:14.590]  So, you know, I think if there was a more competent prior administration that was in charge of the logistics of this, we would have a hell of a lot more consistency in terms of the vaccine rollout.
[54:14.710 --> 54:15.210]  Alex.
[54:15.210 --> 54:36.210]  Maybe in consideration of your point, what should happen is in conjunction with that allowance and, and, uh, uh, uh, loosening of eligibility requirements, we have a big push in the state or in cities to really, really help any seniors that are hesitant or that are having technical,
[54:36.230 --> 54:44.430]  uh, um, challenges registering for an appointment and, or getting trans, ground transportation, et cetera.
[54:45.170 --> 54:55.610]  And by the way, that phone number I mentioned, by the way, uh, to get help in New York, that you will get a person, if you keep trying, you got to keep trying, uh, 1-833-697-4829.
[54:55.970 --> 54:58.430]  That's 1-833-NYS for VAX.
[54:58.710 --> 55:01.570]  But probably it's easy to say 833-697-4829.
[55:01.570 --> 55:04.970]  Also, I mentioned, um, uh, Twitter accounts to follow.
[55:05.210 --> 55:11.890]  Again, New Jersey, uh, C-19 Vax with two X's updates, C-19 V-A-X-X updates.
[55:12.370 --> 55:14.790]  And, uh, in New York, TurboVax.
[55:14.990 --> 55:22.870]  Of course, we've talked about TurboVax before and, um, follow those in the area and you'll get all kinds of information about, uh, vaccine availability.
[55:23.390 --> 55:27.510]  Um, and if you, if you follow it around the clock, you'll be able to jump on something guaranteed.
[55:28.070 --> 55:29.290]  That's just in this area.
[55:29.510 --> 55:35.030]  Every other part of the country has different services and different people that learn the skills and will share that information.
[55:35.250 --> 55:37.390]  And that's, that's really where the help comes from.
[55:37.490 --> 55:40.790]  We can't, uh, depend on authorities to, to, to get it right.
[55:41.050 --> 55:43.270]  Uh, they're going to be tripping over themselves everywhere you go.
[55:43.430 --> 55:46.970]  Uh, but I do think we've seen some examples of the system working.
[55:46.970 --> 55:51.570]  And a lot of the local and state health departments are really doing their best.
[55:51.570 --> 56:03.270]  They are partnering and, um, they're getting, uh, whatever works in their area, uh, set up, um, stood up and running as best they can.
[56:03.590 --> 56:09.450]  So certainly be in touch with your, um, primary physician as well as local health department.
[56:09.550 --> 56:14.130]  If they have a number or if you don't want to call yourself, have someone help you call them.
[56:14.130 --> 56:18.450]  And remember every day, about 3 million people are getting vaccinated now, which is incredible.
[56:18.990 --> 56:22.050]  Uh, and that's 3 million less people to compete with.
[56:22.250 --> 56:22.810]  All right.
[56:22.890 --> 56:27.010]  And with more vaccine becoming available, it's going to get easier and easier.
[56:27.030 --> 56:30.550]  So it might be frustrating now, a couple of weeks, it'll be better guaranteed.
[56:31.170 --> 56:34.330]  So, uh, just keep trying, reach out to us.
[56:34.470 --> 56:37.170]  If you have questions, we'll do our best to, uh, to figure it out.
[56:37.350 --> 56:40.050]  You want to see if there's any more phone calls, Kyle, one more.
[56:40.250 --> 56:40.650]  Uh, okay.
[56:40.930 --> 56:43.450]  Uh, 802-321-4225 is our phone number.
[56:43.970 --> 56:46.310]  And of course the, what happened to the toll free number?
[56:46.430 --> 56:46.730]  It disappeared.
[56:47.570 --> 56:48.490]  I don't have it in my head.
[56:48.750 --> 56:50.910]  833-8755-2600.
[56:51.170 --> 56:52.350]  Yeah, but it was on a piece of paper in front.
[56:52.450 --> 56:53.070]  Oh, it's over here now.
[56:53.170 --> 56:53.830]  You moved the paper.
[56:53.930 --> 56:54.110]  Okay.
[56:54.130 --> 56:54.470]  I'm sorry.
[56:55.510 --> 56:58.830]  Um, anything else from, from, from you guys over in Skype land?
[57:01.470 --> 57:11.110]  Well, I'll, I'll say, you know, if people want to call, I feel like they should do it now because with the rig people are getting vaccinated, we should be back in the station soon.
[57:11.270 --> 57:16.810]  And I can't imagine us carrying this on or having the ability to carry this on once we're back in the station.
[57:17.010 --> 57:23.750]  So, so call us and, and use the opportunity to, uh, not be bound by the FCC's rules and regulations.
[57:24.370 --> 57:29.770]  Not that we're encouraging you to, uh, step over those guidelines, but, um, yeah, it's true.
[57:29.870 --> 57:30.550]  We're not on the radio.
[57:30.550 --> 57:32.570]  So I guess, uh, the FCC has no say.
[57:32.570 --> 57:34.430]  Just choose your cousin wisely.
[57:36.470 --> 57:37.030]  That's right.
[57:37.290 --> 57:38.270]  Is one coming in?
[57:38.710 --> 57:39.770]  Uh, I think so.
[57:40.110 --> 57:40.210]  All right.
[57:40.310 --> 57:41.110]  Kyle's picked up the phone.
[57:41.270 --> 57:43.070]  So let's, let's see who is out there.
[57:43.170 --> 57:43.410]  Go ahead.
[57:43.490 --> 57:43.750]  Call her.
[57:43.810 --> 57:44.070]  You're on.
[57:45.230 --> 57:46.170]  Hey, how you guys doing?
[57:46.370 --> 57:47.450]  Hi, where are you calling from?
[57:47.870 --> 57:49.650]  Question to, um, Eastern Kentucky.
[57:49.970 --> 57:50.310]  Oh, wow.
[57:50.370 --> 57:50.570]  Cool.
[57:50.890 --> 57:51.130]  Awesome.
[57:51.470 --> 57:52.870]  Calling from the cold world.
[57:53.050 --> 57:53.330]  Uh-huh.
[57:53.690 --> 58:07.910]  Anyways, uh, I was just going to see what your guys' thoughts were on censorship resistant social media, like blockchain based social media, where say it's somebody does have something inflammatory to say, or somebody's credentials or something to post.
[58:08.090 --> 58:09.890]  And there's no way of removing that.
[58:10.250 --> 58:14.710]  What's your, what's your thoughts on how that's going to, you know, play out in the future?
[58:15.570 --> 58:16.710]  Alex, you got a thought on this?
[58:18.050 --> 58:32.670]  Um, not, not really, uh, I think a well-formed one, but I mean, I, I think these are all interesting prospects about how social media will be decentralized perhaps in, in, um, uh, in the future.
[58:32.830 --> 58:38.390]  And I also think that things like, um, perhaps data escrows will come into play.
[58:38.470 --> 58:40.970]  And so that the thing is, it already exists.
[58:41.790 --> 58:42.930]  Oh, go ahead, caller.
[58:44.090 --> 58:44.650]  Oh yeah.
[58:44.690 --> 58:48.910]  I was just, um, I was just mentioning like, uh, it's, it's been around now since about 2016.
[58:49.510 --> 59:00.230]  It's, uh, it hasn't caught on too, too well so far, but as the barrier to entry becomes a lot more easy, I feel like it may have some pretty interesting implications in the future.
[59:02.150 --> 59:03.230]  Does it sound like...
[59:03.230 --> 59:05.330]  I'm not sure if you guys remember Shadow Brokers.
[59:05.710 --> 59:11.170]  They were trying to, uh, start up their, their bidding process on a platform called Steemit.
[59:12.610 --> 59:13.990]  Oh, I didn't realize that.
[59:14.250 --> 59:14.410]  Really?
[59:14.610 --> 59:16.290]  That, that's, that's really kind of interesting.
[59:16.530 --> 59:17.030]  I didn't know that.
[59:17.470 --> 59:19.050]  Uh, that's fascinating.
[59:19.250 --> 59:22.830]  Like, I, I think there's a lot of, of potential and possibilities there.
[59:22.950 --> 59:38.750]  And I think we'll see this, you know, as the federal government clamps down on social media as well, because we're, you know, we're already seeing, like we talked about earlier today, the, the germs of much greater and much tighter regulation of social media platforms.
[59:38.990 --> 59:48.610]  I think there's going to be some antitrust issues that will be, you know, facing several of the platforms, probably going, uh, you know, over the next couple of years, at least during this administration.
[59:48.950 --> 59:57.370]  And all of that will lead to, I think the, exactly the type of things that you were brought up earlier, Kolar, uh, proliferating more freely.
[59:58.810 --> 01:00:04.710]  Let's just say we, we see the water going out for the tidal wave, you know?
[01:00:04.710 --> 01:00:17.990]  I mean, we're, we're not unaware that a lot of the implications can be kind of, um, like really strictly like strict censorship adjacent, so to speak.
[01:00:18.210 --> 01:00:32.790]  But, um, and, and to that end, like just like the internet, as we know it or have known it, there's always going to be sort of a place or a way, or someone will always try to find a way around that.
[01:00:32.910 --> 01:00:43.130]  And then, you know, maybe that way will then oddly enough, make it easier to filter because you're serializing or you're using tokenization in some way, who knows?
[01:00:43.290 --> 01:00:51.330]  And that's kind of the exciting thing about innovation and the, I guess, arms race for speech in this, in this context.
[01:00:51.330 --> 01:00:52.790]  I don't know how to characterize it.
[01:00:52.930 --> 01:00:56.790]  I think it's fascinating and, uh, I don't know more than, uh, you've said.
[01:00:56.950 --> 01:00:57.950]  So we'll look into that for sure.
[01:00:58.050 --> 01:00:58.450]  Go ahead, Rob.
[01:00:59.310 --> 01:00:59.650]  Yeah.
[01:00:59.770 --> 01:01:13.650]  And I would say like, as somebody who's been an enthusiastic user of, what we would call social media, since it was, uh, I think being built in the old days, like, uh, ever since we had BBSs and Usenet and moved on to, uh, email lists and websites and,
[01:01:13.790 --> 01:01:23.730]  uh, now apps and things like one thing that I personally, and I, I don't claim to speak to everyone, but one thing I personally want for social media is...
[01:01:23.730 --> 01:01:26.050]  Well, QAnon's really attacking you tonight, Rob.
[01:01:26.490 --> 01:01:27.110]  Start over.
[01:01:27.250 --> 01:01:27.410]  Yeah.
[01:01:27.470 --> 01:01:28.430]  Take that sentence again, Rob.
[01:01:28.990 --> 01:01:28.990]  Yeah.
[01:01:29.310 --> 01:01:29.530]  Okay.
[01:01:29.610 --> 01:01:47.150]  I'll, I'll, I'll take that sentence again because like my, my upspeed has been crap today and I apologize, but, um, uh, one thing that I personally want as a user of social media is, uh, is a good community to be part of, is a part, is something that's worth it to be part of and that's people to connect with and,
[01:01:47.330 --> 01:02:06.830]  you know, communications, ideas, um, and one part of building an environment that is any, any, any bit of being worth it to be part of is if it can be, uh, uh, a, a, a well-organized environment and that's an environment that can get rid of trolls and that could delete abuse.
[01:02:07.010 --> 01:02:17.810]  And so like, if there were a social media form, which, uh, could, which in which you could not delete posts in which you could not, uh, say certain people, Hey, get off, get off my lawn.
[01:02:17.950 --> 01:02:18.670]  I don't want to be part of it.
[01:02:18.870 --> 01:02:20.470]  I mean, I can block people from emailing me.
[01:02:20.510 --> 01:02:21.830]  I can block people from calling me.
[01:02:21.950 --> 01:02:26.470]  Um, I want to be able to block assholes online because there are a lot of them.
[01:02:27.230 --> 01:02:41.330]  And, uh, so like, I think I would not, uh, I would not be eager to be part of a social medium that could not in some way be regulated, even if that was self-regulated, like say a small Mastodon server that, uh, that, you know, is regulated by its own users and own community.
[01:02:42.170 --> 01:02:43.590]  Uh, you know, I think it's possible.
[01:02:43.790 --> 01:02:44.190]  Go ahead.
[01:02:45.350 --> 01:02:47.210]  Oh, there's something already, uh, it exists.
[01:02:47.610 --> 01:02:48.670]  I totally agree.
[01:02:48.790 --> 01:02:51.850]  You want to be able to get rid of the assholes whenever you encounter some.
[01:02:52.930 --> 01:02:53.570]  Excuse me.
[01:02:54.070 --> 01:02:59.750]  But, um, the thing is, is you can do that on the top layer, but you can't remove it from the chain itself.
[01:03:00.290 --> 01:03:02.370]  That's the, the, the caveat there.
[01:03:02.650 --> 01:03:07.090]  It's like a ledger, but it's more of a open log of posts.
[01:03:07.090 --> 01:03:13.070]  It's a, it's pretty much, you have a front facing website, like a front end that's interpreting data from a ledger.
[01:03:14.070 --> 01:03:14.650]  Got it.
[01:03:15.250 --> 01:03:15.410]  Yeah.
[01:03:15.450 --> 01:03:26.190]  You see, I, I think it's possible for users and communities to, to self-regulate and to create a good community, but you have to, uh, you have to have faith in their ability to do that.
[01:03:26.550 --> 01:03:30.710]  I'm not, I'm not a big fan of, um, of being able to delete things that are unpleasant.
[01:03:30.850 --> 01:03:33.710]  Like for instance, I'm, I'm fine with Trump being off Twitter.
[01:03:33.790 --> 01:03:36.190]  I'm not fine with his tweets no longer being accessible.
[01:03:36.330 --> 01:03:42.030]  I want to be able to see all the stupid crap he's, he's said, I want to be able to access that reference it.
[01:03:42.130 --> 01:03:42.530]  It's history.
[01:03:42.670 --> 01:03:47.750]  And if I say something stupid, I don't think I should have the ability to just make like it never happened.
[01:03:47.950 --> 01:03:49.170]  Also, I said something stupid.
[01:03:49.310 --> 01:03:49.870]  I should own it.
[01:03:50.190 --> 01:03:50.350]  Sorry.
[01:03:50.490 --> 01:03:56.210]  Also links, like links breaking or being able to link to on a high effects that historical archives.
[01:03:56.390 --> 01:03:56.510]  Yeah.
[01:03:56.690 --> 01:03:58.350]  It's if it's gone, it's gone now.
[01:03:58.530 --> 01:03:59.610]  And that, that you're right.
[01:03:59.750 --> 01:04:03.010]  We'll all definitely want to reminisce on the shit show whenever we get a little.
[01:04:04.350 --> 01:04:05.030]  Well said.
[01:04:05.170 --> 01:04:05.830]  Yes, absolutely.
[01:04:06.710 --> 01:04:07.130]  Thank you.
[01:04:07.330 --> 01:04:08.010]  Uh, thank you for your call.
[01:04:09.090 --> 01:04:09.190]  Yeah.
[01:04:09.350 --> 01:04:09.630]  Thank you.
[01:04:09.630 --> 01:04:10.010]  All right.
[01:04:10.090 --> 01:04:10.430]  Take care.
[01:04:10.610 --> 01:04:10.770]  Great.
[01:04:10.970 --> 01:04:11.470]  Thanks for listening.
[01:04:12.650 --> 01:04:13.750]  Well, I'm exhausted.
[01:04:13.750 --> 01:04:14.570]  I don't know about you guys.
[01:04:14.790 --> 01:04:19.330]  Uh, been on the, uh, on overtime longer than the show itself now.
[01:04:20.250 --> 01:04:20.630]  Yeah.
[01:04:20.930 --> 01:04:22.190]  Well, we'll miss it.
[01:04:22.250 --> 01:04:26.550]  I think when, when overtime is gone, this has been a fun little experiment, hasn't it?
[01:04:26.770 --> 01:04:28.470]  You think overtime is going to disappear?
[01:04:29.670 --> 01:04:30.070]  No.
[01:04:30.170 --> 01:04:31.770]  In fact, overtime will be on every night.
[01:04:32.050 --> 01:04:32.690]  And, uh, yeah.
[01:04:33.970 --> 01:04:35.130]  Um, yes.
[01:04:35.290 --> 01:04:48.050]  Can I just say, though, that if we move into a more responsible opening safely type situation, I am willing to take credit for it.
[01:04:48.190 --> 01:04:48.470]  Okay.
[01:04:48.990 --> 01:04:50.030]  I'll tell you why.
[01:04:50.830 --> 01:04:56.010]  Because in much the same way that if rain is forecast and you pack an umbrella, it doesn't rain.
[01:04:57.070 --> 01:05:01.410]  I have been working from home on a card table since last March.
[01:05:02.310 --> 01:05:03.870]  Today I bought a desk.
[01:05:04.590 --> 01:05:04.990]  Wow.
[01:05:05.830 --> 01:05:10.690]  So I will be back in my office on a very regular basis in the very near future.
[01:05:10.730 --> 01:05:11.690]  Cause I bought a desk today.
[01:05:12.130 --> 01:05:13.810]  Why didn't you buy a desk a year ago?
[01:05:13.970 --> 01:05:15.410]  We would have all been out of here by now.
[01:05:15.570 --> 01:05:18.430]  You know, I bought a new desk chair a year ago.
[01:05:19.050 --> 01:05:23.390]  Like it was last May and I assumed it would happen then, but there wasn't a vaccine then.
[01:05:23.710 --> 01:05:27.990]  So anything is possible, but I would like the credit if it happens soon.
[01:05:28.170 --> 01:05:28.730]  That's all I'm saying.
[01:05:28.850 --> 01:05:29.690]  What are you doing with the card table?
[01:05:30.790 --> 01:05:32.570]  Uh, I think we're going to fold it up and stick it in the corner.
[01:05:33.230 --> 01:05:35.150]  Does anyone play cards on the card table?
[01:05:35.390 --> 01:05:35.590]  Sure.
[01:05:35.970 --> 01:05:36.170]  Really?
[01:05:36.570 --> 01:05:36.830]  Yeah.
[01:05:37.070 --> 01:05:37.770]  Never happened to me.
[01:05:39.570 --> 01:05:40.510]  All right, folks.
[01:05:40.610 --> 01:05:41.650]  It's been great as always.
[01:05:41.830 --> 01:05:42.810]  Look forward to seeing you all.
[01:05:42.890 --> 01:05:44.430]  We're all vaccinated right now.
[01:05:44.510 --> 01:05:44.690]  Yeah.
[01:05:44.770 --> 01:05:49.650]  Thanks to Gia's desk for reuniting us in the future.
[01:05:49.750 --> 01:05:51.010]  I'm looking forward to that.
[01:05:51.170 --> 01:05:58.750]  At the very least, once Kyle gets his second and two more weeks have passed, we can all just gather in the street at least and say hi to each other, even if we can't go to the station.
[01:06:00.070 --> 01:06:00.650]  That's true.
[01:06:01.050 --> 01:06:05.590]  Well, maybe we can go to one of the, one of the, one of the restaurants that hasn't gone out of business in the city.
[01:06:05.990 --> 01:06:08.110]  Yeah, we'll turn overtime into over drinks.
[01:06:09.490 --> 01:06:11.490]  And then over, over indulgence.
[01:06:11.750 --> 01:06:12.610]  Over the curb.
[01:06:12.830 --> 01:06:13.150]  Uh-huh.
[01:06:14.170 --> 01:06:14.590]  Yes, yes.
[01:06:14.670 --> 01:06:20.570]  What would be fun is if we, if we did, in fact, all gather in one space and do the show, right?
[01:06:20.670 --> 01:06:23.210]  And connected to the station, even if we couldn't go to the station.
[01:06:23.570 --> 01:06:24.690]  Well, that's called a studio.
[01:06:24.770 --> 01:06:26.090]  Yes, that's what we want to do.
[01:06:26.730 --> 01:06:28.410]  You could all come to the Poconos.
[01:06:28.570 --> 01:06:30.270]  We can do the, the show from here.
[01:06:30.630 --> 01:06:31.410]  In a rowboat.
[01:06:32.110 --> 01:06:32.870]  In a rowboat.
[01:06:33.150 --> 01:06:33.890]  Yeah, that's right.
[01:06:34.410 --> 01:06:35.210]  Or a snowplow.
[01:06:35.370 --> 01:06:35.930]  Or a kayak.
[01:06:36.370 --> 01:06:36.570]  Yeah.
[01:06:37.550 --> 01:06:38.070]  All right.
[01:06:38.190 --> 01:06:40.550]  Well, that's, we'll just have to ponder that for a while.
[01:06:40.910 --> 01:06:41.770]  Thank you, everybody, for listening.
[01:06:41.950 --> 01:06:44.270]  Please write to us, OTH at 2600.com.
[01:06:44.410 --> 01:06:45.950]  Don't forget to support WBAI.
[01:06:46.290 --> 01:06:49.190]  Call 212-209-2950 before midnight.
[01:06:49.370 --> 01:06:49.870]  Pledge $25.
[01:06:49.930 --> 01:06:56.130]  You can be a part of the historic vote next month, or go to the website, give to WBAI.org.
[01:06:56.130 --> 01:07:02.810]  We will see you next week on WBAI, seven o'clock and over time following at eight o'clock.
[01:07:03.010 --> 01:07:03.210]  Good night.