[00:00.580 --> 00:02.080]  at 6.30 p.m.
[00:02.160 --> 00:05.460]  right after the WBAI Evening News.
[00:06.560 --> 00:07.800]  Stay tuned for Off the Hook.
[00:08.140 --> 00:10.980]  Coming up, it is almost 7 p.m.
[00:11.140 --> 00:17.660]  and this is still WBAI New York 99.5 FM and WBAI.org Online.
[00:17.960 --> 00:18.600]  Stay tuned.
[00:41.200 --> 00:46.100]  It's been rough for a while, but with COVID for the past two years, it's been insane.
[00:46.380 --> 00:51.620]  And we've all, on both sides, been trying to get our points across about how we feel.
[00:51.980 --> 00:59.360]  A 24-year-old basketball player just died from around where I live.
[00:59.420 --> 01:02.960]  In my district, my district, as you know, is Marjorie Taylor Greene's district.
[01:03.300 --> 01:07.440]  A person who said that, hey, if you're healthy, you'll be fine.
[01:08.820 --> 01:10.420]  24-year-old played basketball.
[01:10.920 --> 01:11.120]  Dead.
[01:11.400 --> 01:11.800]  24.
[01:12.040 --> 01:12.860]  24 years old.
[01:12.940 --> 01:13.360]  He's dead.
[01:14.300 --> 01:15.280]  Otherwise healthy.
[01:17.720 --> 01:25.420]  We need to quit calling people stupid, and we need to figure out a way to do this without screaming and getting mad.
[01:25.580 --> 01:30.420]  But I just don't even know anything other than to say that don't do it because of your politics.
[01:31.100 --> 01:34.260]  Get vaccinated so that you can see your family at Christmas this year.
[01:34.420 --> 01:35.000]  Is that enough?
[01:35.920 --> 01:38.040]  Just do it so you won't be 24 and dead.
[01:38.960 --> 01:39.920]  Just do it so you can live.
[01:45.590 --> 02:07.350]  The telephone gets ringing So I ripped it off the wall I cut myself while shaving Now I can't make a call We couldn't get much worse But if they could, they would From Billy Bon For the best, it's paid for worse I hope that's understood From Billy Bon
[03:34.200 --> 03:41.640]  And a very, very good evening to everybody The program is off the hook Emmanuel Goldstein here with you Joined by Kyle What?
[03:41.880 --> 03:41.960]  What?
[03:42.160 --> 03:58.860]  Just a lot of last minute things going on here Literally down to the wire Wow And let's see Let's go out into Skypeland Where somehow it changes my voice I don't know why it does that See, I'm in Skypeland now And now I'm leaving Skypeland And I'm over here Why does that happen?
[03:59.580 --> 04:03.580]  Something's out of phase or wrong Maybe if I go to Skypeland quickly Huh?
[04:03.960 --> 04:05.360]  Could you tell I even went to Skypeland?
[04:05.480 --> 04:21.900]  That's a skill That's a skill It's also breaking the board Okay, well I see Alex Alex, it looks like you're in a reality TV show Like you're moving down the hallway or something Yeah, well Good evening, everybody And Rob T.
[04:21.980 --> 04:25.960]  Firefly Good evening How do you guys weather the storm?
[04:25.960 --> 04:48.320]  Because last week at this time There was a storm We were talking about it But I don't think any of us realized Just how bad it was going to get And of course by bad I mean good Because I love storms But it was also terrible For the people afflicted And boy There were a lot of people afflicted You know Usually we drive in to do the show We haven't done it in over a year But usually That's what we
[04:48.320 --> 04:57.960]  would do So we would have been among Those people Struggling to to drive through massive amounts of water.
[04:58.460 --> 04:58.900]  Rob?
[05:00.060 --> 05:08.180]  Yeah, I caught a little flack after the fact for being the guy who was on the radio last Wednesday saying, oh, it's not raining so hard here in Queens.
[05:09.800 --> 05:11.080]  Did you really say that?
[05:11.560 --> 05:11.920]  Wow.
[05:12.140 --> 05:14.580]  I said something like that because at the time it was not.
[05:14.860 --> 05:20.600]  But yeah, we would usually, under normal circumstances, take the subways into the station.
[05:20.600 --> 05:26.080]  And had we done that last week, we would have not been able to do so coming back because the subways were full of water.
[05:26.440 --> 05:28.300]  But we weathered the storm fine here.
[05:28.460 --> 05:31.340]  It was pretty amazing how everything fell apart so quickly.
[05:31.460 --> 05:36.500]  And yeah, the infrastructure of the subway system, it's been fragile for a while.
[05:36.660 --> 05:41.100]  I've seen floods quite a number of times, never anything like what we've all seen on TV.
[05:41.780 --> 05:44.500]  But it's something you've got to maintain.
[05:44.640 --> 05:57.260]  And with climate change, which by the way is real, it's quite real, it's going to be a lot more challenging, something that we all have to pay attention to, take seriously, and demand results.
[05:58.120 --> 06:01.260]  Because this kind of thing, it's going to happen again.
[06:02.380 --> 06:13.960]  You know, the record rainfall for one hour was set during that Central Park concert where basically we were saying, hey, New York is back.
[06:14.080 --> 06:15.780]  And Mother Nature said, uh-uh, you're not.
[06:15.780 --> 06:21.040]  And through an hour, in one hour, more rain than we had ever seen in Central Park.
[06:21.200 --> 06:22.120]  That was two weeks ago.
[06:22.360 --> 06:28.880]  And that record was passed with an inch to spare last Wednesday.
[06:29.080 --> 06:30.320]  So, wow.
[06:30.660 --> 06:34.580]  It's really pretty incredible what is happening.
[06:34.760 --> 06:35.200]  Alex?
[06:36.500 --> 06:44.440]  Yeah, I don't remember if we spoke about it during overtime or during the actual show, but I was in Pennsylvania last week.
[06:44.440 --> 06:46.980]  I'm in New York at the moment.
[06:46.980 --> 06:53.800]  But we had a huge chunk of a massive tree fall down and just narrowly miss the house.
[06:54.020 --> 06:57.880]  I mean, it literally shook the entire house when it landed.
[06:58.120 --> 07:04.780]  And thank God there wasn't a car or, God forbid, a person underneath that because both would have been utterly destroyed.
[07:04.780 --> 07:13.620]  I mean, the amount of rain together with the wind that was happening in Pennsylvania and the Poconos was just absolutely incredible.
[07:13.840 --> 07:16.820]  I mean, it was an amazing experience to go out in it afterwards.
[07:16.820 --> 07:19.160]  But, yeah, it was scary.
[07:19.420 --> 07:34.640]  And then waking up and hearing about these tragedies in Queens, specifically with respect to these poor people that were in basement apartments that were just flooded so quickly, it was absolutely tragic.
[07:34.640 --> 07:39.400]  And I don't understand why it wasn't avoidable.
[07:39.540 --> 07:47.340]  You know, why were these people in these basement apartments not notified or told that they should seek higher ground?
[07:48.300 --> 07:52.140]  Maybe it's a function of climate change and things just being so out of control.
[07:52.460 --> 07:56.920]  Well, I mean, consider it's rained before, and this hasn't happened before.
[07:57.580 --> 08:10.640]  I'm not making excuses, but it's unprecedented, and people are going to get things wrong, and dangerous living situations are going to definitely become more dangerous in situations like that.
[08:10.800 --> 08:15.440]  So it's something we just have to keep remembering and learning from.
[08:15.640 --> 08:23.520]  And also keep in mind, this is the same storm that still has much of New Orleans powerless, literally no power.
[08:26.440 --> 08:28.680]  It's just incredible, the wrath of nature.
[08:28.880 --> 08:33.760]  And I think we've done enough to really get nature upset, so expect more.
[08:33.920 --> 08:34.700]  Expect more of this.
[08:34.820 --> 08:41.380]  Hurricane season, we're only midway through it, and there are all kinds of other storms as well that will come our way.
[08:41.400 --> 08:43.200]  I hope our listeners made it through okay.
[08:43.880 --> 08:53.860]  If you noticed anything with technology, infrastructure, the things we talk about week after week here, please write to us, OTH at 2600.com, with your experiences.
[08:54.360 --> 09:09.040]  Yeah, it's the kind of thing we're only planning based on our previous experience, and this dynamic storm event hits us in places we never really thought were vulnerable and in unusual and novel ways.
[09:09.040 --> 09:16.880]  So we have to kind of adapt and keep planning for stuff that emerges as a new problem.
[09:16.880 --> 09:30.060]  And it just shows how small amounts of storm surge and a few feet can hurtle us into a totally unpredictable event like we've experienced.
[09:30.220 --> 09:37.140]  And what's really interesting about this is that I don't even think Ida was a tropical storm by the time it hit us.
[09:37.140 --> 09:41.220]  It was a hurricane in New Orleans, and it weakened.
[09:41.660 --> 09:43.440]  But, you know, we've had hurricanes.
[09:43.620 --> 09:50.820]  We've had tropical storms that have not hit us as hard as whatever this was, which was less than a tropical storm.
[09:51.240 --> 09:54.060]  So it's hard.
[09:54.240 --> 09:54.840]  It's unpredictable.
[09:56.160 --> 09:59.660]  Sometimes you get caught unawares, and that's what happened.
[09:59.880 --> 10:10.100]  I know there was a tweet from, I think, the National Weather Service or a local chapter of it in New York that said, we're issuing a flash flood emergency, and we've never done that before.
[10:10.420 --> 10:12.480]  And that has been so scary about that.
[10:12.780 --> 10:25.280]  The professionals are in new ground, and you can see the concern, even the fear, in the way they speak, the way they express themselves.
[10:25.480 --> 10:28.540]  And that's when you really have to start taking it seriously.
[10:28.680 --> 10:36.380]  And not unlike what we're seeing with COVID, where the people who know what they're talking about are expressing concern, and we have to respect that.
[10:36.460 --> 10:38.060]  We have to listen.
[10:38.680 --> 10:52.340]  And, you know, when you find yourself amongst people who say that NIH and CDC and WHO, they all don't know what they're talking about, and all the doctors and hospitals and all these people, they're all in on the conspiracy.
[10:53.360 --> 10:54.120]  Just stop.
[10:54.260 --> 10:56.640]  Take a step back and listen to yourself.
[10:57.620 --> 11:01.080]  And ask if this is really who you want to be.
[11:01.260 --> 11:14.200]  Because for all of the people who know what they're talking about to somehow conspire just to make things inconvenient for your first grader to wear a damn mask to school, or whatever else you think is part of the conspiracy.
[11:15.060 --> 11:16.520]  Boy, this is...
[11:16.520 --> 11:19.500]  Talk about new ground to step on.
[11:19.560 --> 11:22.160]  This has never been accomplished in the history of humanity.
[11:22.400 --> 11:23.560]  It's not what's going on.
[11:23.560 --> 11:31.000]  We're facing a very dramatic health crisis, and vaccine or not, we are all still at risk.
[11:31.120 --> 11:42.040]  You have much lesser risk if you've had the vaccine, but you are still at risk because the disease is not over yet, and there could be more variants that are stronger.
[11:42.360 --> 11:47.740]  Delta is much stronger than the original variant, which I guess doesn't have a name, does it?
[11:50.900 --> 11:54.240]  But it's just something that we all need to take seriously.
[11:54.680 --> 12:16.220]  That was Corey Forrester, by the way, up on top of the hour, our friend from Georgia, who usually expresses himself in a much more unerable way as far as stupidity and culture, especially in the part of Marjorie Taylor Greenland that he is from.
[12:18.240 --> 12:20.900]  And he expresses himself in just such an incredible way.
[12:20.980 --> 12:29.380]  But this was something that I just felt had to be heard by people of New York because it brings the humanity back into the discussion.
[12:29.560 --> 12:31.640]  And sometimes we forget about that.
[12:32.800 --> 12:33.520]  Alex, are you okay?
[12:33.640 --> 12:35.540]  You keep hopping on and off the internet.
[12:35.540 --> 12:37.700]  Are you in some remote location?
[12:39.380 --> 12:41.200]  Well, I'm in my office.
[12:41.240 --> 12:46.320]  And so I'm actually on my phone using Skype.
[12:46.320 --> 12:57.060]  I don't know if it sounds any different or maybe it sounds better because generally mobile phone hardware seems to be better than actual laptop hardware these days.
[12:57.180 --> 12:58.260]  No, you sound fine.
[12:58.300 --> 13:00.840]  I'm getting a little dizzy looking at you because you're moving constantly.
[13:01.000 --> 13:03.480]  But other than that, the listeners don't care about that.
[13:03.480 --> 13:05.900]  So now you're spinning around the room.
[13:06.000 --> 13:06.520]  Thank you for that.
[13:06.600 --> 13:07.620]  That's really nice of you.
[13:07.700 --> 13:09.760]  This is the wonders of having a swivel chair.
[13:10.340 --> 13:11.460]  That's what you're doing.
[13:11.500 --> 13:11.940]  Oh, boy.
[13:13.000 --> 13:13.880]  All right.
[13:14.040 --> 13:28.460]  Well, try to stay connected because we definitely want to hear what you have to say on many of these issues, including the all-important mandatory 10-digit dialing that will be effective for all kinds of states and area codes on October 24th, 2021.
[13:28.460 --> 13:29.040]  2021, yeah.
[13:29.260 --> 13:38.160]  You know, I didn't realize the 516 area code, which was stolen from us here on Long Island and given just to Nassau County, they still don't have to dial 10 digits.
[13:38.300 --> 13:39.540]  They can dial seven digits.
[13:40.260 --> 13:43.640]  If they're calling within the 516, imagine that.
[13:43.700 --> 13:46.880]  If they're calling within the 516 area code, they don't have to dial 516.
[13:47.060 --> 13:48.120]  That used to be the norm.
[13:48.400 --> 13:53.720]  That used to be what everybody would do is, why would you dial your own area code?
[13:53.720 --> 14:07.620]  You know, as phone freaks, sometimes we would do that because it would route the call through a long-distance line instead of a local line, and you could do things like use a red box if it was a pay phone, for instance, or maybe you could even seize the trunk with a blue box.
[14:08.260 --> 14:10.800]  There are all kinds of reasons why you might want to do that.
[14:11.520 --> 14:18.240]  But now, the reason is because of what I consider to be poor planning, because there's no reason on earth you should have to dial your own area code.
[14:18.280 --> 14:21.240]  I don't think you should have to dial your own exchange, but that's a whole other conversation.
[14:22.320 --> 14:26.700]  Right now, what they're doing is they're adding another three-digit code.
[14:27.880 --> 14:30.960]  This three-digit code is 922.
[14:32.640 --> 14:33.080]  922.
[14:33.180 --> 14:33.700]  I'm sorry.
[14:34.020 --> 14:37.100]  Is it 922 or 988?
[14:37.560 --> 14:38.240]  You know what?
[14:38.280 --> 14:40.220]  I lost a piece of paper that tells me what it is.
[14:40.380 --> 14:41.680]  I thought it was 922.
[14:42.740 --> 14:43.300]  Hang on.
[14:43.420 --> 14:44.740]  I'm looking at it now.
[14:45.920 --> 15:03.880]  So most people should have been informed about this, and you'll be seeing a lot more attention and alerts, because things like this aren't just kind of, you know, slipped into the news cycle.
[15:03.880 --> 15:07.360]  This is an official announcement we've unfurled.
[15:07.540 --> 15:08.180]  Okay.
[15:08.180 --> 15:09.080]  So I found it.
[15:09.180 --> 15:09.600]  It's 988.
[15:09.600 --> 15:14.360]  And this just proves, my own confusion proves what a bad system this is.
[15:15.140 --> 15:20.020]  988 is going to be the National Suicide Prevention and Mental Health Crisis Hotline.
[15:21.020 --> 15:22.700]  So it's a three-digit code.
[15:22.780 --> 15:24.660]  And that's great to have a three-digit code.
[15:24.820 --> 15:27.240]  But as you can see, I got confused.
[15:27.240 --> 15:29.020]  I thought it was 922, but it's 988.
[15:29.020 --> 15:39.500]  And the reason I thought it was 922 was because they're apparently using the dialing syntax of 9XX, where the Xs are the same digits.
[15:39.800 --> 15:42.840]  So 911 is emergency police.
[15:43.140 --> 15:47.640]  And then if they're going 988, that's another kind of emergency.
[15:47.840 --> 15:51.340]  And presumably, they're going to fill all the nine repeating digits.
[15:51.880 --> 15:54.740]  England, 999 is how you call the police there.
[15:54.940 --> 15:57.420]  So I don't think it's the best system.
[15:57.420 --> 15:59.720]  I think we have a good system right now.
[15:59.960 --> 16:01.820]  911, that works.
[16:01.960 --> 16:03.200]  People know how to dial that.
[16:03.600 --> 16:04.580]  What about 811?
[16:04.800 --> 16:05.720]  What about 711?
[16:05.980 --> 16:10.640]  You know, all these numbers that are used for things that not very many people use them for.
[16:10.820 --> 16:11.760]  811, what's that?
[16:11.840 --> 16:16.060]  For if you're about to dig up a cable, how many people are out there digging up cables?
[16:16.620 --> 16:18.160]  Construction workers mostly, right?
[16:18.340 --> 16:19.640]  I mean, we don't do that.
[16:19.920 --> 16:20.920]  We're not supposed to.
[16:21.320 --> 16:33.320]  So can't you just give a phone number to construction workers so that they call the right number and we can have 811 for maybe, yeah, there's an emergency going on here, but keep the cops away.
[16:33.320 --> 16:34.220]  That would be nice.
[16:34.360 --> 16:35.500]  811 would make sense.
[16:36.080 --> 16:38.600]  It's not always for contractors, though.
[16:39.000 --> 16:39.940]  Okay, who else is digging up?
[16:39.940 --> 16:44.600]  Because if there's some DIY person or a business that's doing their own digging, you know, they might...
[16:44.600 --> 16:46.400]  Can't they just call a number?
[16:46.960 --> 16:48.640]  I'm not trying to be contrarian.
[16:48.640 --> 16:51.160]  I just thought, you know, it's not exclusive.
[16:51.160 --> 16:53.160]  It's not something that happens a lot.
[16:53.160 --> 16:54.220]  Yeah, not every day.
[16:54.360 --> 16:58.980]  Not as much as people needing that number for something really important.
[16:59.100 --> 17:00.100]  What's 211 then?
[17:00.180 --> 17:01.220]  Tell me what 211 is.
[17:01.320 --> 17:03.160]  Tell me what 711 is.
[17:03.220 --> 17:07.660]  I know one of them is TTYs for hard of hearing, but I don't know which.
[17:07.920 --> 17:08.320]  511.
[17:08.500 --> 17:08.960]  What's that?
[17:09.100 --> 17:13.480]  You know, there are plenty of codes that we could use that make more sense than 988.
[17:14.720 --> 17:23.880]  And the reason they have all these mandatory dial your own area code now is because 988 exists as an exchange in many places.
[17:24.040 --> 17:26.360]  If your phone number begins with 988, yeah, what's going to happen?
[17:26.680 --> 17:28.680]  Am I suddenly the suicide hotline now?
[17:28.900 --> 17:29.200]  No.
[17:29.220 --> 17:34.420]  What's going to happen is people can no longer dial you if they don't dial the area code first.
[17:34.720 --> 17:37.400]  Because if they dial 988, they're going to get that hotline.
[17:37.400 --> 17:44.060]  You don't have that issue with exchanges that end in 1-1, because there is no 3-1-1 exchange.
[17:44.240 --> 17:45.840]  There is no 9-1-1 exchange.
[17:46.140 --> 17:49.340]  So it's set up to work this way.
[17:49.820 --> 17:52.760]  I just wish they would talk to us first before they did things like this.
[17:52.900 --> 17:54.160]  I wish they would talk to us.
[17:54.280 --> 17:58.160]  They would have talked to us when they started changing area codes.
[17:58.240 --> 18:04.900]  You know, we had a great system where area codes, if there was a zero in the middle, it meant that it covered the whole state.
[18:04.900 --> 18:12.400]  Like, 505 was New Mexico, 808 was Hawaii, 907, Rob, was what?
[18:13.940 --> 18:17.420]  Oh, you didn't know I'd be asking questions, did you?
[18:18.140 --> 18:19.620]  I wasn't aware of your test.
[18:19.820 --> 18:20.740]  It was Alaska.
[18:21.080 --> 18:21.560]  I'm sorry.
[18:21.800 --> 18:22.180]  That's Alaska.
[18:22.320 --> 18:22.420]  Yeah.
[18:23.420 --> 18:38.100]  207, but if it had a 1 in the middle, such as New York, 2-1-2, 5-1-6, 7-1-6, 3-1-5, 5-1-8, you know, that meant they had multiple area codes in that state.
[18:38.280 --> 18:40.460]  That was a system that made sense.
[18:40.660 --> 18:42.740]  It didn't really need to make sense like that, but it was cool.
[18:42.880 --> 18:53.140]  So when they started just adding three-digit codes as area codes without any kind of regard for if they followed certain rules, it broke the system.
[18:53.320 --> 18:55.440]  Nobody knows what area codes mean anymore.
[18:55.440 --> 19:02.220]  They could have solved the entire thing by adding a digit to phone numbers, you know, making eight-digit phone numbers instead of seven.
[19:02.920 --> 19:04.520]  And would that have been so hard?
[19:04.520 --> 19:08.580]  We'd be dialing eight digits instead of 10 or 11 digits now when we're calling locally.
[19:09.280 --> 19:13.960]  Or, you know, if you really have to expand area codes, you could have just made them four digits instead of three.
[19:14.120 --> 19:16.080]  There are so many ways they could have done this that would have been better.
[19:16.700 --> 19:17.920]  Alex, you have a point.
[19:19.900 --> 19:30.840]  Yeah, you know, with respect to the zero or the one in the middle digit of the area codes, I learned something interesting about this, a bit of an aberration with respect to that rule.
[19:31.280 --> 19:35.640]  Are you familiar, Emmanuel, and I'm sure you are, with the 607 area code?
[19:36.080 --> 19:39.020]  607 is part of New York, isn't it?
[19:39.140 --> 19:39.900]  Rochester, is it?
[19:40.140 --> 19:41.440]  Or is it Syracuse?
[19:42.360 --> 19:45.040]  It's part of New York that borders Pennsylvania.
[19:45.040 --> 19:48.300]  Now, okay, so why does that have a zero in the middle of it?
[19:48.340 --> 19:48.980]  That's interesting.
[19:49.320 --> 19:52.780]  Was that an expansion area code when they started to run out earlier?
[19:53.660 --> 19:54.900]  It's very interesting.
[19:55.140 --> 19:58.420]  This one is the aberration or the exception to that rule.
[19:59.240 --> 20:09.140]  607 was apparently created in 1954 by combining the southern portion of 315 and the eastern portion of 716.
[20:09.520 --> 20:09.820]  Really?
[20:10.020 --> 20:15.100]  And it was an exception to that general rule that the zero meant it was the area code for the general, for the whole state.
[20:16.300 --> 20:21.700]  Well, you know, that would have annoyed me then if I had found out about that because it's breaking the rules.
[20:21.840 --> 20:23.240]  I don't know why they had to do that back then.
[20:23.340 --> 20:25.120]  Were they really expanding that much?
[20:25.980 --> 20:28.820]  And also, were there no ones they could have taken?
[20:29.000 --> 20:31.420]  Area codes with ones in the middle that they could have used?
[20:31.540 --> 20:31.900]  You know what?
[20:31.960 --> 20:33.060]  It's water under the bridge.
[20:33.060 --> 20:36.000]  But it reminds me of the interstate system.
[20:36.320 --> 20:45.100]  You know, the interstate system also has rules where basically odd numbers go north and south.
[20:45.140 --> 20:48.880]  So I-95 goes north and south.
[20:49.020 --> 20:51.480]  I-5 on the west coast, north and south.
[20:51.600 --> 21:01.340]  And you might notice that 5 is the bottom of the numbering scheme, furthest to the west, and 95 is at the top, furthest to the east.
[21:01.700 --> 21:08.080]  Now, the same system works east-west, even numbers, I-80, I-90.
[21:08.380 --> 21:11.960]  And again, the further south you go, the lower the number gets.
[21:11.980 --> 21:14.760]  So I-10 is really far south.
[21:14.900 --> 21:16.820]  And I-90 is as far north as you can go.
[21:17.560 --> 21:19.840]  So where the hell is I-99?
[21:20.160 --> 21:21.480]  It's in the middle of Pennsylvania.
[21:22.080 --> 21:24.620]  They put it there for no reason at all.
[21:24.780 --> 21:26.360]  They just broke the rules.
[21:26.360 --> 21:28.820]  I-99 should be on the Atlantic Ocean.
[21:28.960 --> 21:30.700]  It should be as far to the east as you can get.
[21:30.780 --> 21:32.700]  But no, it's in the middle of Pennsylvania.
[21:33.520 --> 21:36.160]  I've asked many construction workers why this is.
[21:36.240 --> 21:36.760]  Nobody knows.
[21:36.940 --> 21:37.860]  Nobody understands it.
[21:37.940 --> 21:38.980]  It's just somebody broke the rules.
[21:39.120 --> 21:39.880]  Somebody didn't care.
[21:40.260 --> 21:41.540]  You know, you have systems.
[21:42.320 --> 21:43.260]  It's like poetry.
[21:43.460 --> 21:45.320]  They just work together.
[21:45.540 --> 21:48.000]  And they make sense in some odd way.
[21:48.520 --> 21:51.040]  But it can all be destroyed just with a few errant numbers.
[21:54.820 --> 21:57.020]  Then which way does interstate H-1 go?
[21:59.520 --> 22:00.480]  You're joking, right?
[22:00.540 --> 22:02.190]  You're talking about Hawaii interstates now?
[22:02.860 --> 22:03.760]  Is that what you're doing?
[22:04.710 --> 22:05.190]  Yes, I think.
[22:05.190 --> 22:07.500]  Why do they have interstates in Hawaii when they can't possibly?
[22:07.600 --> 22:09.020]  Yeah, it's a joke.
[22:09.020 --> 22:11.020]  But it mocks the entire interstate system.
[22:11.280 --> 22:14.820]  You notice Alaska doesn't have any interstates because they respect the system up there.
[22:14.820 --> 22:21.950]  I think the original civil engineers and designers have sort of this idea in mind.
[22:22.140 --> 22:27.020]  But after a while, they're not there to really curate it and maintain it.
[22:27.120 --> 22:31.930]  And it's not shepherded through time in quite the way they intended.
[22:32.170 --> 22:40.540]  So it sort of takes different forms and mutates and stuff and becomes something really unrecognizable, like you're pointing out.
[22:40.540 --> 22:47.020]  And they are twirling in their graves right now, believe me, when they see how their systems are being disrespected like this.
[22:47.580 --> 22:52.170]  All right, moving on, because I'd like to talk about something a bit lighter than this.
[22:53.710 --> 23:00.100]  In Montana, we have a lot of listeners in Montana, and the Butte Public Library, is that how you pronounce it?
[23:00.170 --> 23:07.880]  Because I don't want a whole other Spokane thing, where I pronounce it the way it's spelled, and I got all kinds of nonsense for that.
[23:09.430 --> 23:12.000]  But B-U-T-T-E, Butte, that's how I'm going to say it.
[23:12.410 --> 23:14.480]  Is someone going to tell me it's but, or what?
[23:14.600 --> 23:15.260]  Am I doing it wrong?
[23:16.450 --> 23:16.760]  Alex?
[23:17.320 --> 23:18.190]  I think you're right.
[23:18.320 --> 23:18.980]  I think it's Butte.
[23:19.120 --> 23:20.220]  Okay, let's all agree it's Butte.
[23:22.180 --> 23:26.360]  So, there's a battle brewing in the computers of the Butte Public Library.
[23:27.080 --> 23:31.450]  It's up to your teens to stop the hackers by becoming hackers.
[23:32.720 --> 23:33.210]  Yeah.
[23:33.800 --> 23:36.670]  Axel Sameno is an ethical hacker.
[23:37.800 --> 23:38.480]  Oh, boy.
[23:38.620 --> 23:39.500]  Yeah, the eyes are rolling.
[23:39.500 --> 23:39.880]  I know.
[23:40.080 --> 23:42.040]  And we'll get into why they're rolling in a second.
[23:42.450 --> 23:49.780]  And ever since she was a teenager, she had a fascination with the language of computers.
[23:49.780 --> 23:54.020]  My professor was teaching me how to do some coding using QBasic and DOS.
[23:54.800 --> 23:55.820]  Okay, that's cool.
[23:56.080 --> 23:59.720]  You know, nobody does that anymore, but it's kind of neat.
[24:00.000 --> 24:01.860]  By the way, it comes from KXIF.
[24:03.580 --> 24:07.430]  It intrigued me a lot because my professor said that's the way a computer talks.
[24:07.900 --> 24:16.910]  So, by learning a different language, which is DOS, not really, but okay, it kind of gave me the tool to learn how to do HTML, SQL, databases.
[24:17.480 --> 24:25.710]  Now, the ethical hacking class will teach teens the language of computers and how to access a computer's database and to see what vulnerabilities there are.
[24:25.710 --> 24:28.140]  And that's kind of okay, I guess.
[24:28.520 --> 24:45.410]  Now, according to an entity known as EC Council, ethical hacking is the process of detecting vulnerabilities in an application system or organization's infrastructure that an attacker can use to exploit an individual or organization.
[24:46.430 --> 24:48.640]  I think that's what hacking is.
[24:48.800 --> 24:55.000]  I don't think you need to put ethical in front of it to define it that way because hackers are always looking for things like that.
[24:55.300 --> 24:57.930]  Yeah, people should focus on being ethical people.
[24:58.120 --> 24:58.800]  Yeah, ethical people.
[24:58.980 --> 25:02.950]  How would you feel if I said, you know, are you an ethical plumber?
[25:03.300 --> 25:03.950]  You know?
[25:04.500 --> 25:05.880]  I'm looking for an ethical...
[25:05.880 --> 25:08.820]  I'll call the plumber and say, I'm looking for an ethical plumber.
[25:09.190 --> 25:12.930]  What kind of reaction do you think you'll get from the plumber who picks up the phone?
[25:14.060 --> 25:14.720]  You know?
[25:15.760 --> 25:25.620]  Only hacking seems to have this kind of reputation that is bestowed upon it by the media and by By elected officials and by the general public.
[25:26.710 --> 25:30.760]  Now, an ethical hacker, also known as a white hat hacker...
[25:30.760 --> 25:49.240]  Oh, boy, yeah, the eyes are really rolling now because that's a whole other label that just is nonsense and usually is attached to people trying to sell you something, such as classes or certificates or something that proves that you paid the money and can now be classified as,
[25:49.340 --> 25:53.060]  quote-unquote, ethical, whereas you were not before.
[25:55.700 --> 25:57.170]  So, let's see.
[25:57.720 --> 26:02.910]  They are hired by organizations to find faults in their database's security system.
[26:03.580 --> 26:07.300]  They also provide solutions for fixing the vulnerability.
[26:09.060 --> 26:15.300]  In a few words, says Samana, we are going to give the kids tools to fight the hackers.
[26:16.840 --> 26:19.910]  See, this is where I think they're going on the wrong track here.
[26:22.420 --> 26:24.710]  Now, here's how the situation unfolds.
[26:25.020 --> 26:30.860]  Working against the class is the nefarious company, Aquapond, that wants to gain access to the library's computer.
[26:31.280 --> 26:31.720]  Aquapond?
[26:31.930 --> 26:32.930]  Is that the evil name?
[26:33.690 --> 26:35.080]  That's kind of a nice...
[26:35.080 --> 26:39.320]  I can't believe there's no company, a real company called Aquapond out there that's going to take offense.
[26:40.480 --> 26:41.540]  But, yeah, whatever.
[26:41.580 --> 26:47.740]  It's up to the class to stop the fictitious company and hack into their database to get the information to the police.
[26:47.930 --> 26:48.800]  Okay, stop.
[26:49.020 --> 26:49.560]  Full stop.
[26:50.360 --> 26:52.600]  That's not how it works, okay?
[26:52.620 --> 26:57.430]  You don't just hack into a company and then hand over what you find to the cops.
[26:57.460 --> 26:59.000]  There's something called due process.
[26:59.820 --> 27:13.640]  Alex, is it right to be teaching our kids this is how justice is handed out, that you find an evil corporation, you hack into their databases, and then you hand everything over to the cops, and that makes you an ethical hacker?
[27:16.520 --> 27:20.120]  I would probably advise them a little bit differently.
[27:20.690 --> 27:23.060]  Yeah, I'm not so sure about that.
[27:23.240 --> 27:24.430]  I mean, just...
[27:24.430 --> 27:30.120]  Look, the whole concept from start to finish is premised on, frankly, erroneous assumptions.
[27:30.120 --> 27:35.430]  So I'd be concerned with the legal advice that they're doling out here.
[27:37.240 --> 27:44.580]  Well, they say, this is a message to the parents, don't worry, they are not going to do anything illegal or anything like that.
[27:44.780 --> 27:48.100]  We are just giving the tools to the kids to learn how a computer talks.
[27:48.340 --> 27:50.040]  Well, they do a little more than that.
[27:50.120 --> 27:53.860]  First of all, you'd be smirching what hackers really are.
[27:54.720 --> 28:00.950]  It's nice that you're teaching what you consider to be ethical hacking, but hacking by default is ethical.
[28:01.100 --> 28:03.820]  And I think that's the lesson you need to teach to people.
[28:04.430 --> 28:07.820]  Yeah, learn how the computer talks, learn the languages and things like that.
[28:08.650 --> 28:09.640]  You're still ethical.
[28:09.840 --> 28:12.360]  You're ethical until you commit a crime, and then you're not ethical.
[28:12.690 --> 28:15.380]  I like to think ethical is a default state.
[28:15.950 --> 28:26.740]  So you don't have to add this adjective to the word, because hacking is an ethical activity.
[28:26.910 --> 28:34.880]  And I think parents should be happy that their kids are learning how to manipulate computers and see what they're saying, what they're doing.
[28:35.060 --> 28:41.880]  Keep in mind, this whole lesson where you break into a company called Aquapon, that's evil, that's illegal.
[28:42.100 --> 28:42.500]  Okay?
[28:42.800 --> 28:44.800]  You stop being ethical when you did that.
[28:45.170 --> 28:45.520]  All right?
[28:45.600 --> 28:45.980]  That's...
[28:45.980 --> 28:50.960]  And sometimes, yeah, I know, breaking the rules, sometimes breaking the law is an ethical thing.
[28:51.380 --> 28:54.170]  But it's not to be decided in this class.
[28:54.170 --> 28:56.430]  I don't think that's the right message.
[28:56.560 --> 28:56.780]  Brog?
[28:58.320 --> 29:06.320]  Yeah, I mean, I'm really troubled by the use of the word ethical like this, just because ethical, I feel about it, it's a neutral term.
[29:06.480 --> 29:08.140]  It's not even necessarily a positive thing.
[29:08.460 --> 29:13.060]  Someone can have a sense of ethics, but their ethics are, I think I should be allowed to murder everybody.
[29:13.240 --> 29:23.220]  You know, you can call yourself an ethical this or an ethical that or an ethical hacker, whatever you're doing with it, whether it's responsible, irresponsible, positive, negative, what have you.
[29:23.450 --> 29:26.710]  So I think I find the term ethical hacker just kind of meaningless in itself.
[29:27.880 --> 29:31.410]  Yeah, just like the hats, like it doesn't need to be described by that.
[29:31.520 --> 29:53.240]  You want to wear yours and treat, I think, the learning process here a lot more like play, like playing with how systems work, understanding the kinds of ways things can break and exploring more than setting up these sort of confusing stereotypes for kids.
[29:53.430 --> 29:55.170]  I think that's especially bad.
[29:55.170 --> 30:07.430]  We have enough problems with the way hackers are labeled in the adult sphere and in news media and in the way politicians talk about them.
[30:07.740 --> 30:10.460]  And why is the black hat is the unethical one?
[30:10.690 --> 30:12.740]  You know, who decides these things?
[30:12.840 --> 30:17.540]  Who says white hat good, black hat bad, and gray hat somewhere in the middle?
[30:17.540 --> 30:22.720]  Well, no, that's, that's, that's, it's just, it's fostering stereotypes, it's creating new stereotypes.
[30:23.020 --> 30:25.340]  I wear a black hat doesn't make me a bad person.
[30:25.710 --> 30:28.580]  All right, my actions are what make me a bad person.
[30:28.640 --> 30:29.260]  I came out wrong.
[30:29.950 --> 30:35.640]  It's my actions are what could make me a bad person if they were bad actions is what I'm trying to say.
[30:36.000 --> 30:47.080]  And that is how we should all be judged, not by our interest, not by the fact that we like to hack into things or hack a hardware or software or just think creatively.
[30:47.520 --> 30:53.100]  What other, what other field can you attach that to?
[30:53.520 --> 30:56.430]  You know, ethical doctors, ethical lawyers.
[30:56.690 --> 31:01.170]  I mean, Alex, how would you feel if you had to put the word ethical in front of your title?
[31:01.600 --> 31:06.690]  Because so many lawyers were, you know, lawyer by default is not considered ethical.
[31:06.690 --> 31:10.840]  And I know there are people that believe that, but I don't believe that.
[31:10.960 --> 31:12.460]  And I'm sure most people don't.
[31:13.600 --> 31:14.980]  You know, it's interesting.
[31:15.170 --> 31:23.690]  Obviously, there is a full canon of ethics to which lawyers must abide, you know, at all times.
[31:23.880 --> 31:30.600]  But there is something akin to an ethical certification for attorneys around the country.
[31:30.600 --> 31:42.840]  Before you even take the bar exam, you have to take something called the MPRE, which is the multi-state professional responsibility exam, and you cannot be admitted to the bar if you fail that.
[31:43.000 --> 31:55.800]  And that's basically a test of your knowledge and application of the ethical standards to which attorneys must abide at all times.
[31:56.320 --> 32:03.260]  And so there is this concept of being a certified ethical attorney as well.
[32:04.190 --> 32:10.800]  Well, you pass a test, but they don't put the word ethical in front of your name on the door.
[32:10.980 --> 32:11.560]  That's true.
[32:11.740 --> 32:11.880]  Yeah.
[32:12.220 --> 32:13.320]  Yeah, you're absolutely right.
[32:13.380 --> 32:17.960]  Yeah, you pass a test, but you don't have that attached to your name.
[32:18.240 --> 32:20.980]  It would seem just absolutely silly and redundant.
[32:21.450 --> 32:23.500]  Yeah, I mean, we could do the same thing in the hacker world.
[32:23.560 --> 32:24.120]  We could have a test.
[32:24.210 --> 32:33.140]  But the problem with that is that hacking is so widespread in so many different fields that somebody could be an expert programmer and not know the first thing about phones.
[32:33.140 --> 32:33.930]  And vice versa.
[32:34.540 --> 32:40.140]  There are so many things that you could be good at and so many things you could be bad at.
[32:40.220 --> 32:41.380]  And nobody knows everything.
[32:41.960 --> 32:43.360]  So I'm not a programmer.
[32:43.600 --> 32:46.080]  People think I am because I'm in the hacker world.
[32:46.120 --> 32:47.720]  But no, you don't have to be a programmer.
[32:48.140 --> 32:49.980]  I can break programs.
[32:49.980 --> 32:51.300]  I can make them stop working.
[32:51.300 --> 32:52.540]  I can usually find bugs.
[32:52.950 --> 32:56.910]  But everyone has their own skill set in one form or another.
[32:56.910 --> 33:05.710]  And there are people who might simply be able to hack game systems and can't find their way around the Macintosh.
[33:06.080 --> 33:07.690]  It doesn't make them any less of a hacker.
[33:08.040 --> 33:12.300]  So you can't really have a test that will prove you're a hacker or not.
[33:12.340 --> 33:16.190]  What you can do is simply say, you know, are you stealing?
[33:16.500 --> 33:18.100]  Are you ripping people off?
[33:18.220 --> 33:19.800]  If so, then you're unethical.
[33:20.060 --> 33:21.280]  And you might be a hacker too.
[33:21.360 --> 33:21.710]  Who knows?
[33:21.880 --> 33:22.500]  It doesn't really matter.
[33:22.880 --> 33:23.690]  You're a thief.
[33:23.690 --> 33:25.880]  You know, because that is something else entirely.
[33:26.640 --> 33:28.300]  Or you are an ethical person.
[33:28.450 --> 33:29.860]  Maybe you're a hacker who's ethical.
[33:30.140 --> 33:32.260]  Maybe you're somebody else who's ethical.
[33:32.430 --> 33:34.460]  But these are different concepts.
[33:34.670 --> 33:39.060]  And it doesn't really tie into what a hacker by default is.
[33:39.140 --> 33:39.280]  Rob?
[33:40.260 --> 33:53.580]  And the fact that you need to take a test and be certified as an ethical hacker to get one of these certificates is kind of funny because, like, I think the hacker mindset drives someone to whether or not they have what you might consider to be a positive set of ethics.
[33:53.690 --> 34:06.220]  A hacker sitting in front of that test would be like, okay, I know which answers to put in to get what I want, to get the answers that they want me to have and earn the certificate, whether or not they're, you know, ethical people as you might describe them.
[34:06.280 --> 34:11.620]  So wait, if you cheat to get the ethical hacking title, are you...
[34:11.620 --> 34:14.800]  Did you cancel yourself out or are you double ethical?
[34:16.410 --> 34:17.430]  Or I don't know.
[34:17.580 --> 34:19.000]  There's a whole other word for that, I guess.
[34:19.160 --> 34:20.640]  But I think it makes you more of a hacker.
[34:20.910 --> 34:21.460]  Yes, Alex.
[34:22.760 --> 34:30.950]  I mean, this is something I think we've talked about in the past, too, and I've said, I feel like, numerous times to various people over the last couple of weeks.
[34:31.040 --> 34:47.080]  And it's something that you hit on, too, Emmanuel, which is being a hacker, to me, and this has always been my outlook on it, it's less about technical skills and more about having a certain mindset, perhaps even a certain sort of philosophical outlook akin to,
[34:47.280 --> 34:52.380]  and I don't mean this in a derogatory manner, but maintaining a childlike attitude towards the world.
[34:52.660 --> 34:59.540]  Because being a hacker is about being unafraid to take things apart, it's about being unafraid to ask questions.
[34:59.780 --> 35:02.720]  And frankly, it's about being unafraid to be wrong.
[35:02.720 --> 35:06.120]  Because being wrong is part of that learning process.
[35:06.500 --> 35:08.260]  And being a hacker is about learning systems.
[35:08.500 --> 35:12.980]  It's about learning these processes and finding the vulnerabilities in those systems and those processes.
[35:13.300 --> 35:19.700]  And it's for that reason that I really believe that the best lawyers out there have this type of mindset.
[35:19.760 --> 35:32.020]  And therefore, the best lawyers are hackers, even though they might not know it, or frankly, they might not admit it, because of all of the ethical negative connotations about the term.
[35:32.600 --> 35:32.950]  Go ahead, Rob.
[35:33.960 --> 35:43.100]  And, you know, putting aside for the moment the goofy terminology around this, I do think it's really great that people are considering teaching these sorts of concepts and things to kids.
[35:43.600 --> 35:56.560]  Because that, you know, I know it's true for myself, I know it's true for so many in this community that they first caught, you know, sort of the hacker bug as a kid, when they were exploring the world, figuring the world out, figuring out how things around them worked.
[35:57.200 --> 36:05.370]  And I think it's, yeah, like you said, it's a very childlike thing to have that curiosity about the things around you and want to learn more about them.
[36:05.620 --> 36:08.950]  And yeah, there's nothing wrong with being childlike, because that's what children do, they learn.
[36:09.790 --> 36:18.000]  So I know I encourage the children in my life, you know, friends, family, whatever, to nurture those sorts of hackery instincts.
[36:18.620 --> 36:28.980]  And I think it's great that, like, if you watch the old movie, The Breakfast Club, it starts with these panning shots of the high school computer room and other classrooms and stuff.
[36:29.140 --> 36:33.460]  And on the on the wall of the computer room is a sign that says hackers will be expelled.
[36:34.000 --> 36:36.240]  And I used to have that as my desktop image for a while.
[36:36.350 --> 36:51.310]  But like, it shows that the the attitudes toward what you might call a hacker in schools have changed, because I remember when we were basically having to keep our interests secret from our teachers, from our people who were supposed to be educating us.
[36:51.640 --> 36:54.060]  Because, you know, if anyone heard you're a hacker, that's terrible.
[36:54.430 --> 37:00.060]  But yeah, it's great that it's great that we can encourage the hacker, the hacker mindset in kids now.
[37:00.060 --> 37:12.260]  I think the there's maybe there's a lack of stories or curricula to complement this kind of lesson plan.
[37:12.260 --> 37:39.760]  And maybe this was a sanitized attempt to make it sort of palatable to a school because it's good, good guy, you know, it's so black and white, good guys and bad guys, because, you know, the, the, the old cops and robbers paradigm, which is silly, it's and I think there's so many other ideas and stories that that could show just as much of that hacker curiosity,
[37:39.980 --> 37:41.180]  etc, etc, that we've been talking about.
[37:41.290 --> 37:42.790]  I think I think they have good intentions.
[37:43.290 --> 37:47.890]  I'm not I'm not, you know, shooting down this whole thing going on in the Butte public library system.
[37:48.200 --> 37:51.890]  And by the way, kudos for having a Butte public library system.
[37:52.060 --> 37:58.870]  When you first said this headline, I thought it was the students were being encouraged to help them with some kind of ransomware or something that went wrong, they could do.
[37:59.040 --> 38:00.520]  They could absolutely do that.
[38:00.700 --> 38:05.290]  You know, so this what Alex refers to as as the childlike mentality.
[38:05.480 --> 38:06.700]  Yeah, that is that is an asset.
[38:06.790 --> 38:07.350]  That is a good thing.
[38:07.480 --> 38:14.390]  That's something we could use more of in our in our daily lives that that sense of wonder, and, and discovery.
[38:15.100 --> 38:25.910]  And just looking at the world as something that is overall positive place, you look at kids in many parts of the world, and they always seem so happy, even if they're going through miserable conditions.
[38:26.450 --> 38:31.000]  You know, a lot of them are just smiling, and you can't figure out why sometimes.
[38:31.200 --> 38:40.080]  But if you remember that childlike innocence that we all once had, that's very much something that I think is valued in the hacker community.
[38:40.700 --> 38:42.580]  Plus, you get to drive when you're older.
[38:42.760 --> 38:47.120]  So if you can keep both of those things, wow, there's all sorts of things you can accomplish.
[38:47.580 --> 38:53.870]  But staying on this topic for a moment, and by the way, if you want to join the conversation, you can.
[38:54.310 --> 38:56.850]  But you have to wait till eight o'clock when we go on to YouTube.
[38:57.640 --> 39:02.220]  And in fact, let me give you the phone number now so that you don't have to write it down then.
[39:02.500 --> 39:04.540]  802-321-HACK is our phone number.
[39:04.660 --> 39:05.810]  Don't call it now, you won't get anything.
[39:06.420 --> 39:07.950]  802-321-4225.
[39:08.790 --> 39:17.720]  And that will enable you to call in and talk with us, which we can't do on the radio now since we're remote, but we can do that over the internet later on.
[39:17.890 --> 39:23.450]  But if you remember last year, there was this guy named John Paul McIsaac.
[39:24.330 --> 39:27.500]  He was the owner of a computer repair shop.
[39:28.200 --> 39:41.870]  And his name became kind of famous after the New York Post ran a story regarding what was apparently Hunter Biden's laptop that had been abandoned at his shop, and that eventually found its way into the hands of Rudy Giuliani.
[39:42.290 --> 39:45.720]  And the story just took on a life of his own at that point.
[39:47.180 --> 39:58.740]  We awarded him Hacker of the Week, because this guy got so upset at the way the story was being categorized, he accused Twitter of labeling him a hacker.
[39:59.220 --> 40:03.830]  And he thought the term was so derogatory that it was destroying his life.
[40:03.980 --> 40:10.660]  Even though Twitter never did any such thing, basically, the concept of hacking was brought up.
[40:11.240 --> 40:12.580]  He still filed the lawsuit.
[40:12.700 --> 40:19.520]  And I believe, Alex, correct me if I'm wrong, that lawsuit was dismissed the same day it was filed, which is something that doesn't happen very often.
[40:20.790 --> 40:28.040]  I don't recall if it was dismissed the same day it was filed, but I believe it's possible.
[40:28.160 --> 40:28.500]  Yeah, it was.
[40:28.500 --> 40:29.430]  I'm looking at the story now.
[40:29.600 --> 40:34.430]  The initial lawsuit was tossed the same day it was filed on jurisdictional grounds.
[40:34.620 --> 40:46.950]  But what they did was, or what he did, he filed a similar lawsuit a couple of months later that added something called Madbits as a defendant.
[40:47.160 --> 40:53.260]  Now, Madbits was an image search startup that Twitter acquired many years ago and shut down.
[40:53.620 --> 41:01.790]  Now, what he argues in the complaint is that Madbits still exists, even though Florida records show the company was shut down after the acquisition.
[41:02.520 --> 41:07.720]  He said they still existed as a way for Twitter to somehow skirt Florida employment laws.
[41:07.910 --> 41:19.240]  But either way, the addition of Madbits provided the kind of diversity jurisdiction necessary to keep the case alive, unlike the initial version that got tossed.
[41:19.520 --> 41:26.850]  These are some legal gymnastics that I guess they're worthy of recognition, right, Alex?
[41:28.220 --> 41:34.330]  Yeah, diversity there refers to a legal term of art.
[41:34.370 --> 41:45.640]  And what it means is that on both sides of the V of the lawsuit for the plaintiff and the defendant, they have to reside in different states in order to have federal jurisdiction.
[41:46.020 --> 41:50.500]  That's one way of getting into federal court is to have diversity jurisdiction.
[41:50.760 --> 41:53.240]  The other way is to have federal question jurisdiction.
[41:53.240 --> 41:59.790]  And that means that the lawsuit arises under federal law or raises a constitutional issue.
[42:00.310 --> 42:04.390]  But diversity is a great way to get your case into federal court.
[42:04.870 --> 42:23.370]  And it's premised on this notion that arose in the 18th century when we're creating, you know, these Article III courts, is that the federal court, I'm sorry, that the state courts of one state would favor its own citizens as opposed to the citizens of another state.
[42:23.620 --> 42:35.080]  So that if a resident of New Jersey was suing a resident of New York, they shouldn't be allowed to use the federal courts of the United States of America to settle those disputes, rather than the state courts.
[42:36.120 --> 42:45.410]  So that's how they that's how he was trying to hold on to federal jurisdiction by adding this party that was outside of his normal his home state.
[42:46.060 --> 42:56.560]  Well, yeah, so basically, this all stemmed from the fact that Twitter made the decision to block the story, which which was a mistake.
[42:56.790 --> 43:02.180]  And they corrected that afterwards, but it really was a bad precedent they were trying to set there.
[43:02.350 --> 43:07.560]  Basically, they said that this New York Post story relied on hacked materials.
[43:09.080 --> 43:12.680]  And therefore, they wouldn't allow links to the New York Post story.
[43:12.790 --> 43:15.620]  That's way overreaching what Twitter is supposed to be about.
[43:16.390 --> 43:24.290]  But this guy, he saw that hacked materials, and he was the person who provided the laptop to Giuliani.
[43:24.830 --> 43:27.870]  He thought that somehow made him labeled a hacker.
[43:27.950 --> 43:29.850]  And he thought the term was so derogatory.
[43:30.140 --> 43:37.350]  He went on this campaign to to bring Twitter down for daring to accuse him of being somehow related to hackers.
[43:37.520 --> 43:40.410]  This is what happens when you have this whole ethical hacking nonsense.
[43:40.600 --> 43:43.440]  This is how people view the hacker community.
[43:43.440 --> 43:47.740]  Anyway, so he brought mad bits up thinking that would somehow help.
[43:47.860 --> 43:48.340]  It didn't.
[43:48.740 --> 43:58.020]  According to this TechDirt article, Florida's anti slap law now means that he is on the hook for Twitter's legal fees.
[43:59.340 --> 44:01.060]  The ruling is pretty straightforward.
[44:01.320 --> 44:04.200]  This was not anything even remotely close to defamation.
[44:04.880 --> 44:21.560]  Regarding the defamation per se claims, the judge notes that his legal theory is flawed for several reasons, mainly because nothing Twitter did was in reference to Isaac himself, the guy that was filing the lawsuit.
[44:22.340 --> 44:24.960]  So yeah, it's rare to see justice come out of Florida.
[44:25.120 --> 44:27.700]  But in this particular case, I think it prevailed.
[44:27.880 --> 44:29.290]  Who knows if there'll be another lawsuit.
[44:29.420 --> 44:33.580]  But I think now he's on the hook for for a lot of legal fees.
[44:35.500 --> 44:36.080]  Yeah.
[44:36.300 --> 44:47.140]  And it's worth noting, too, that that slap suit and that's usually used by smaller entities against a bigger entity, not necessarily the other way around.
[44:47.240 --> 44:49.200]  So this is an unusual outcome here.
[44:49.360 --> 44:53.360]  So slap stands for strategic lawsuit against public participation.
[44:53.900 --> 45:21.980]  And that's, in essence, a law that allows you to reverse the fees when a lawsuit is filed to censor or intimidate or in essence, silence critics by burdening them with the cost of a legal defense until they, let's say, they relinquish their criticism or they stop speaking about a particular issue because the costs of litigation are just too high.
[45:22.160 --> 45:24.380]  So those are generally what slap suits are.
[45:24.520 --> 45:32.460]  And those are usually wielded by little guys against big guys, not not the other way around, as it is in this case.
[45:33.770 --> 45:34.360]  Wow.
[45:34.820 --> 45:39.840]  Here's another legal case that I think is rather interesting to focus on.
[45:39.940 --> 45:50.940]  But apparently AI systems, artificial intelligence systems cannot be granted patents and will not be recognized as inventors in the eyes of the U.S.
[45:51.020 --> 45:51.320]  law.
[45:51.790 --> 45:56.180]  That's according to a federal judge who decided to uphold a previous ruling by the U.S.
[45:56.420 --> 45:58.000]  Patent and Trademark Office this week.
[45:58.120 --> 46:00.100]  I didn't know this was even a conversation.
[46:00.720 --> 46:08.940]  Stephen Thaler, who is the founder of Imagination Engines, a company in Missouri, applied in 2019 for two U.S.
[46:09.060 --> 46:16.060]  patents describing a food container based on fractal geometry and an emergency light beacon.
[46:16.660 --> 46:18.040]  Yeah, you think we're geeks.
[46:18.260 --> 46:20.920]  This is the kind of thing that's going on in the real world here.
[46:21.860 --> 46:22.100]  Yeah.
[46:22.340 --> 46:31.460]  Instead of putting his own name on the applications, Thaler gave all credit to DABAS, which was an evil robot in Star Trek.
[46:31.680 --> 46:32.320]  No, it's not.
[46:32.460 --> 46:37.480]  It's a neural network he built and claimed came up with both creations.
[46:38.180 --> 46:40.600]  I don't know how the network came up with the creations, whatever.
[46:40.900 --> 46:41.520]  The U.S.
[46:41.660 --> 46:51.200]  Patent and Trademark Office, however, rejected both applications and said only natural persons are allowed to be named as an inventor on the patent paperwork.
[46:52.240 --> 46:56.840]  Thaler, in response, sued the director of the patent office at the time.
[46:56.960 --> 46:58.680]  This guy sounds like a lot of fun to hang out with.
[46:59.460 --> 46:59.920]  Yeah.
[47:00.120 --> 47:03.460]  So he sued the patent office to challenge that decision.
[47:04.120 --> 47:16.120]  There is no statute or case that has found an AI generated invention cannot be patented or that holds an AI cannot be listed as an inventor, his lawyers argued.
[47:16.340 --> 47:28.760]  Rather, any discussion of inventors as natural persons has been based on the assumption that only a person could invent or to prevent corporate and sovereign inventorship at the expense of a human inventor.
[47:29.700 --> 47:33.100]  But it sounds like me arguing with some anti-vax people right now.
[47:33.290 --> 47:39.500]  It's basically... and of course, I'll bet natural people made this rule in the first place.
[47:39.680 --> 47:41.600]  So that makes it doubly invalid.
[47:42.480 --> 47:56.960]  Judge Leone Brinkema disagreed, sided with the patent office's current director, because the other one just, I guess, quit, ruling that the law states individuals must take an oath to swear they are the inventor on a patent application.
[47:57.260 --> 48:02.320]  These individuals must be natural persons, which computer software is not.
[48:02.900 --> 48:04.440]  And okay, it's 2021.
[48:04.440 --> 48:07.860]  And we've reached the conclusion that computer software is not human.
[48:08.320 --> 48:10.040]  I'm kind of glad about that.
[48:10.120 --> 48:14.660]  But Alex, what's your perspective on this rather interesting case?
[48:15.540 --> 48:24.300]  I mean, I think it certainly makes sense that you can't program something to make additional inventions and then have that be the owner.
[48:24.440 --> 48:38.660]  I mean, it just seems as if it's a pretty common sense decision that's... that makes, you know, a distinction between a natural person and a thing.
[48:38.840 --> 48:41.940]  Yeah, but do you remember that episode of Star Trek where Data created an android?
[48:42.420 --> 48:44.760]  All right, now who created the android then, you know?
[48:44.900 --> 48:46.400]  So are you going to take that away from him?
[48:47.040 --> 48:47.500]  Yeah.
[48:47.740 --> 48:52.380]  No, I think algorithms and AI can certainly create other things.
[48:53.100 --> 48:54.600]  That's certainly the case.
[48:54.860 --> 49:02.380]  But they will not have the patent rights that belong to natural persons, you know, associated with them.
[49:02.760 --> 49:06.700]  And, you know, and I think that that's an important distinction here.
[49:06.860 --> 49:24.040]  I mean, I think it certainly does make sense from an intellectual property standpoint to have ownership of IP belong to other types of AI or other types of algorithms seems, you know, really strange.
[49:24.040 --> 49:28.620]  You would probably have to have some other subclass of IP developed.
[49:28.740 --> 49:37.140]  And maybe there will be an additional class of intellectual property that's developed to address these particular situations over the next several years.
[49:37.380 --> 49:46.920]  But yet, on the other hand, everything boils down to this notion of a legal fiction of personhood.
[49:46.920 --> 49:54.480]  Because what is a corporation, except not, you know, a fictitious person that can own certain types of intellectual property as well?
[49:55.020 --> 49:55.480]  Rob?
[49:56.240 --> 49:57.820]  There was a there was a great case.
[49:58.140 --> 50:03.980]  And it is intellectual property, which means that that necessitates having some sort of intellect to have this property.
[50:04.260 --> 50:07.800]  And at present, I don't think computers legally have an intellect.
[50:08.240 --> 50:20.640]  There was a there was a case going way back where a nature photographer went to the jungle to take pictures of monkeys, left some equipment on the ground, and the monkeys ended up playing with the cameras and inadvertently snapping photos of themselves.
[50:21.120 --> 50:23.360]  And these went viral as the monkey selfies.
[50:23.960 --> 50:25.800]  And it's a it's a great case.
[50:25.940 --> 50:26.760]  You can look it up.
[50:26.900 --> 50:36.160]  And what what ended up happening, this went through the courts because the guy asserted that he had ownership of the images because it was his camera, even though he didn't physically take the photos.
[50:36.800 --> 50:42.360]  Peter, I think, got involved in the lawsuit saying, no, the monkey should own the photos and therefore be the owner.
[50:42.660 --> 50:51.580]  And basically, the the ruling of the courts was, no, nobody owns these because the animal took the photos and the animal is not a person in terms of intellectual property ownership.
[50:51.840 --> 50:54.940]  So their public domain and the animals also not artificial.
[50:55.290 --> 50:57.180]  So that adds more complexity to it.
[50:57.800 --> 50:58.300]  Absolutely.
[50:58.760 --> 51:09.460]  But like, you know, if if an animal is not a person for purposes of intellectual property, I don't think a computer program that is programmed to guess at things can can be an intellectual property owner either.
[51:09.820 --> 51:16.440]  Kyle, I think this is a really interesting area of Alex's points about corporations being persons.
[51:16.720 --> 51:20.740]  I mean, what is the patent office really mean by natural persons?
[51:20.860 --> 51:34.660]  I mean, it is specific and probably a legal term, but it it really makes you wonder, especially when you apply it to things less sort of mundane as like a food container.
[51:34.760 --> 51:57.040]  I think when you look at practical uses of this that that are that have a big impact and that are high stakes, like in chemistry and in medicine, the kinds of molecules and things that are being discovered often are the product of systems like this.
[51:57.220 --> 52:18.620]  So it's certainly not unusual to be using computers to find new ways of, um, uh, structuring things in, in an engineering sense or in, um, uh, biochemical or pharmaceutical uses that there's a lot of things, especially even, um, human DNA and, and, and,
[52:18.840 --> 52:19.980]  and other aspects of it.
[52:20.120 --> 52:22.680]  So it's certainly something we should watch and think about carefully.
[52:22.700 --> 52:30.560]  We're going to continue this conversation over on YouTube, go to, uh, uh, www.2600.com slash channel 2600.
[52:30.660 --> 52:31.220]  Actually, I'm sorry.
[52:31.320 --> 52:31.820]  No, I got that wrong.
[52:31.920 --> 52:37.860]  YouTube.com slash channel 2600 or follow the link that's on the 2600.com webpage.
[52:38.100 --> 52:39.680]  And you can call us and continue the conversation.
[52:39.820 --> 52:44.880]  Alex, I just wanted to ask you one quick question in 15 seconds, uh, natural person.
[52:45.160 --> 52:45.320]  Okay.
[52:45.400 --> 52:50.500]  So are they saying that, uh, the AI is a person and it's just not natural?
[52:50.790 --> 52:55.500]  Uh, what, what, what word is, uh, applies to them?
[52:56.680 --> 53:01.340]  Um, yeah, I, I think it's that it, it's both, right?
[53:01.360 --> 53:07.720]  A natural person is, is, is a, is a real person, you know, and, and perhaps this really gets to a philosophical concept, right?
[53:07.820 --> 53:15.740]  That, you know, it has to be an individual with consciousness that develops a particular thing for which a patent can be granted.
[53:16.260 --> 53:20.020]  And, you know, as Rob aptly noted, you know, we're not there yet.
[53:20.180 --> 53:26.180]  There's a difference between, as John Searle, the philosopher would say, the simulation and the duplication of consciousness.
[53:26.460 --> 53:26.660]  Okay.
[53:26.660 --> 53:31.460]  We'll have to leave it there or pick it up in a few minutes on YouTube slash channel 2600.
[53:31.740 --> 53:33.380]  Uh, keep tuned to WBI.
[53:33.380 --> 53:35.440]  We'll be back again next week.
[53:35.700 --> 53:36.300]  Good night.
[53:37.820 --> 53:38.340]  Uh-oh.
[53:44.440 --> 53:44.920]  Yo!
[53:44.920 --> 53:45.400]  Yo!
[53:46.120 --> 53:46.960]  Hey, yo!
[53:49.500 --> 53:50.360]  Check it out.
[53:50.680 --> 53:51.300]  Here you come.
[53:52.220 --> 53:53.640]  Well, something ain't right, yo.
[53:53.860 --> 53:54.580]  Watch out, man.
[53:54.920 --> 53:55.740]  Look at that food.
[53:56.320 --> 53:57.200]  It's packing.
[53:57.660 --> 53:58.360]  Here you come.
[53:58.560 --> 53:58.780]  Yo.
[53:59.640 --> 54:00.480]  Yo, son, come on.
[54:00.540 --> 54:01.460]  Your own mouth's coming, man.
[54:10.660 --> 54:11.640]  Yeah.
[54:12.480 --> 54:14.940]  The cheese stands alone.
[54:28.320 --> 54:34.140]  When you walk through the garden, watch your back.
[54:34.580 --> 54:36.840]  Well, I beg your pardon.
[54:37.440 --> 54:39.640]  Walk the straight and narrow track.
[54:39.900 --> 54:44.720]  If you walk with Jesus, save your soul.
[54:44.720 --> 54:50.240]  Oh, gotta keep the devil down in the hole.
[54:50.360 --> 54:55.140]  He's got fire and the fury at his command.
[54:55.860 --> 54:58.220]  Yo, he don't got to worry.
[54:58.640 --> 55:00.840]  Hold on to Jesus, man.
[55:01.160 --> 55:06.080]  We'll be safe from Satan when the thunder rolls.
[55:06.560 --> 55:11.380]  But you gotta keep the devil down in the hole.
[55:11.380 --> 55:12.660]  Keep him down the curtain, right?
[55:15.400 --> 55:16.360]  Down in the hole.
[55:16.360 --> 55:16.900]  Oh, yeah.
[55:22.000 --> 55:24.820]  We'll be safe from Satan.
[55:25.260 --> 55:26.540]  Come go right there, right inside.
[55:28.540 --> 55:33.220]  Gotta keep the devil down in the hole.
[55:35.160 --> 55:37.100]  Keep him in the trash, yo.
[55:37.900 --> 55:39.760]  Down in the hole.
[55:40.380 --> 55:42.460]  Keep him in the hole.
[55:42.460 --> 55:45.100]  Down in the hole.
[55:45.360 --> 55:47.680]  Keep them in the hole.
[55:48.300 --> 55:50.280]  Down in the hole.
[00:00.850 --> 00:05.370]  And welcome, everybody, here on YouTube for Off the Hook Overtime.
[00:06.030 --> 00:07.150]  I think we all made it.
[00:07.410 --> 00:08.370]  Alex, are you back?
[00:09.850 --> 00:11.070]  Yeah, I'm here.
[00:11.590 --> 00:17.090]  I'm probably going to peel off a little bit early today from overtime since I'm still stuck in the office.
[00:17.270 --> 00:18.150]  I think that's an option.
[00:18.850 --> 00:20.730]  Yeah, you're in it for the long haul, pal.
[00:22.390 --> 00:23.010]  We'll see.
[00:23.170 --> 00:23.570]  Yeah, we'll see.
[00:23.750 --> 00:24.710]  Rob, how about you?
[00:24.870 --> 00:26.310]  Everything okay on your end?
[00:26.510 --> 00:27.330]  We're actually on the air.
[00:27.330 --> 00:28.410]  Thank you for holding the sign up.
[00:28.510 --> 00:29.270]  You could also say it.
[00:30.190 --> 00:30.690]  It's good to know.
[00:30.710 --> 00:31.810]  We're actually on the air on YouTube.
[00:32.130 --> 00:35.130]  We're actually on the air, which technically isn't air, but it's fine.
[00:35.990 --> 00:37.790]  And Kyle, you're right here, so you made it.
[00:37.930 --> 00:39.210]  I think you mean on the light.
[00:39.810 --> 00:40.670]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:41.290 --> 00:42.010]  On the tubes.
[00:42.230 --> 00:44.030]  Our viewers just dropped in half.
[00:44.030 --> 00:44.830]  What happened?
[00:45.070 --> 00:45.730]  That was weird.
[00:46.150 --> 00:48.550]  We had a bunch, and now we have half.
[00:49.390 --> 00:51.230]  I wonder, did we do something to knock them off?
[00:51.350 --> 00:54.450]  If so, tell us what to do to fix it.
[00:55.230 --> 00:56.830]  Yeah, it keeps going down.
[00:57.390 --> 00:58.490]  I don't understand YouTube.
[00:58.690 --> 01:00.050]  Don't really want to understand YouTube.
[01:00.190 --> 01:01.950]  But we are definitely broadcasting, right?
[01:02.930 --> 01:03.670]  We are indeed.
[01:03.890 --> 01:04.070]  Okay.
[01:04.730 --> 01:08.550]  Our phone number is 802-321-4225.
[01:08.890 --> 01:11.050]  Anything else on the artificial intelligence?
[01:11.970 --> 01:16.310]  Because I think this is going to become more and more of an issue as the years go by.
[01:16.310 --> 01:30.210]  I just want to add that it might be something that is recognized as a tool that the intellectual signing on this or the company would not have been able to come up with without that tool.
[01:30.370 --> 01:36.270]  In other words, it was sort of integral to the formation of the intellectual property at issue.
[01:36.390 --> 01:37.150]  But I don't even know.
[01:37.250 --> 01:41.230]  I was just thinking off the top of my head when we were discussing it.
[01:41.710 --> 01:42.270]  We have a call.
[01:42.470 --> 01:43.050]  We have a call.
[01:43.130 --> 01:43.570]  Go ahead, Rob.
[01:43.830 --> 01:44.570]  We'll take the call.
[01:44.930 --> 01:51.810]  Yeah, we have generations of inventors on the books who might have used an electronic calculator to help figure out their invention.
[01:51.910 --> 01:54.010]  And the calculator itself is not the inventor.
[01:54.350 --> 01:54.510]  Right.
[01:54.590 --> 01:57.130]  But, you know, somebody had to invent these things.
[01:57.190 --> 02:00.110]  Like, you know, calculators or artificial intelligence or whatever.
[02:00.110 --> 02:10.630]  And I think maybe, you know, if you invent a tool and that tool helps you get somewhere else, I think you're still the person that invented it.
[02:10.630 --> 02:24.110]  But I'm not as sure about that as I think the tools are changing and we're sort of maintaining them.
[02:24.270 --> 02:33.970]  But there are aspects of this that I think we could explore that are just really, really different than just, say, an adding machine per se.
[02:34.330 --> 02:35.490]  I'm not an expert.
[02:35.650 --> 02:36.410]  I have no idea.
[02:36.610 --> 02:38.130]  Maybe some callers have some insight.
[02:38.130 --> 02:41.270]  I think there is a distinction here worth looking at.
[02:41.510 --> 02:43.710]  I mean, a computer is just basically an adding machine.
[02:43.950 --> 02:46.350]  It's taking numbers and doing things with them.
[02:46.770 --> 02:50.690]  And robots, you know, adding physical action to that.
[02:51.030 --> 02:52.170]  It's going to get interesting.
[02:52.510 --> 02:56.510]  Alex, I hope you're ready as a lawyer to deal with some fascinating cases down the road.
[02:57.590 --> 02:58.070]  Yeah.
[02:58.310 --> 03:04.170]  Well, you know, frankly, this is an issue, I think, that Congress will have to address.
[03:04.170 --> 03:17.690]  Because the ruling here seems like it was based on the language of the Patent Act itself, which uses the term individual, if I recall correctly.
[03:18.270 --> 03:21.210]  And that can be changed.
[03:21.210 --> 03:28.990]  If Congress wants to allow artificial intelligence to claim patent rights, they can do that very easily by amending the statute.
[03:29.290 --> 03:46.530]  But insofar as the courts go, even an activist judge, I think, would be reluctant to read ownership rights into the word individual for something as novel as artificial intelligence.
[03:46.530 --> 04:09.030]  And I think it's precisely for the reasons that Rob had identified earlier, which is that we are not yet at the stage where a computer or a computer program or an individual can be considered an individual, you know, with consciousness and with associated rights and responsibilities of being an individual.
[04:09.030 --> 04:14.590]  You know, I just, I see you cross-examining a robot on the stand at some point in your career.
[04:15.270 --> 04:17.230]  And I think we're heading towards this.
[04:17.430 --> 04:24.510]  I know a lot of science fiction programs have already tackled this issue, so maybe we should see how they resolved it before we deal with it firsthand.
[04:24.590 --> 04:25.210]  Let's take this call.
[04:25.430 --> 04:26.070]  Good evening.
[04:26.070 --> 04:27.370]  You're on Off the Hook Overtime.
[04:27.430 --> 04:27.630]  Go ahead.
[04:29.270 --> 04:29.970]  Hi, good evening.
[04:30.210 --> 04:30.630]  How you doing?
[04:31.370 --> 04:31.770]  Hello?
[04:32.150 --> 04:32.650]  Yes, you're on.
[04:32.650 --> 04:33.030]  I'm doing great.
[04:33.150 --> 04:33.490]  You're on the air.
[04:34.970 --> 04:37.670]  This is Kirby calling from Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
[04:37.910 --> 04:38.670]  Oh, hey, how you doing?
[04:39.970 --> 04:40.750]  I'm doing great.
[04:40.910 --> 04:41.530]  How are you guys doing?
[04:41.710 --> 04:43.150]  You're the guy in the museum, right?
[04:44.470 --> 04:45.170]  Yeah, yeah.
[04:45.310 --> 04:45.750]  Yeah, okay.
[04:45.870 --> 04:48.450]  I work in museums and different galleries and such.
[04:48.590 --> 04:48.790]  Uh-huh.
[04:48.890 --> 04:50.990]  He echoes our show through the empty hallways.
[04:52.470 --> 04:52.910]  Yeah.
[04:53.150 --> 05:02.950]  During the morning maintenance routines, your shows have definitely played through the empty hallways and cavernous galleries.
[05:03.310 --> 05:03.570]  Wow.
[05:03.830 --> 05:07.470]  Well, we'll have to visit sometime and see these amazing hallways.
[05:07.470 --> 05:09.110]  Uh, so what's on your mind tonight?
[05:10.530 --> 05:13.130]  Um, well, first of all, can I, uh, have a couple of shout-outs?
[05:13.410 --> 05:13.950]  Go ahead.
[05:15.270 --> 05:22.990]  Uh, shout-outs to Joe, Critter, Sparrow, Tuxedo, Moop, uh, Walter and Bricktown.
[05:23.370 --> 05:32.210]  And also just, uh, a bit of a, um, shout-out to the people of Soggy and Shores on Lake Huron.
[05:32.210 --> 05:38.310]  There was quite a weather event last night, and they had, um, a lot of damage, a lot of trees down, and a lot of power outage.
[05:38.450 --> 05:40.570]  So, I hope they're recuperating okay.
[05:40.830 --> 05:42.110]  Just a weather event?
[05:42.110 --> 05:43.550]  It wasn't a particular storm?
[05:43.650 --> 05:44.450]  It just happened?
[05:45.310 --> 05:50.670]  Well, I mean, like, it was, it was one heck of a storm, and some parts of it, there was a tornado.
[05:51.010 --> 05:51.450]  Oh, wow.
[05:51.670 --> 05:54.270]  And it came through, yeah, it came through like a train.
[05:54.270 --> 05:58.590]  But, at this point, I don't really know exactly what happened, or how much damage is where.
[05:58.590 --> 06:01.570]  I didn't know Canada, I didn't know Canada even had tornadoes.
[06:01.710 --> 06:02.970]  You know, I thought that was an American thing.
[06:03.730 --> 06:07.070]  Can they, Canadians are, they're taking all the bad things of America now.
[06:07.230 --> 06:09.170]  Anti-vaxxers, and now tornadoes.
[06:10.910 --> 06:13.950]  Yeah, I mean, yeah, we definitely have our share of tornadoes.
[06:14.070 --> 06:18.470]  But, uh, I guess the geography doesn't permit quite as many.
[06:18.630 --> 06:26.050]  But, I mean, there's parts of Canada in the center and the west, as well as in Ontario, that have had their fair share of extreme weather, so.
[06:26.210 --> 06:28.010]  Wow, well, I hope everybody up there is okay.
[06:28.090 --> 06:32.050]  I can attest to the effects of violent weather firsthand.
[06:32.070 --> 06:33.290]  It's, uh, it's not pretty.
[06:35.010 --> 06:35.810]  Yeah, exactly.
[06:36.450 --> 06:47.950]  But, uh, I guess to keep things back on, on topic, um, the main reason I called was because, uh, it's a bit of a confession, but, uh, a couple of weeks ago, I was phished, uh, via email.
[06:48.150 --> 06:48.510]  Oh, dear.
[06:49.670 --> 07:00.090]  And I consider myself to be a fairly, uh, astute, you know, security-conscious person, but, um, somebody hacked a friend's email account and asked me for help.
[07:00.270 --> 07:00.890]  Oh, wow.
[07:00.950 --> 07:01.990]  And I offered it to them.
[07:02.430 --> 07:02.870]  Yeah.
[07:03.650 --> 07:15.130]  And I, the main thing, the main point of all this is I just want to say, if anybody ever emails you for help of any kind, just try to verify it through another channel.
[07:15.130 --> 07:15.570]  Uh-huh.
[07:15.710 --> 07:22.350]  Before you send them, you know, $400 in Google Play cards or whatever, you're going to end up, um, sending them.
[07:22.490 --> 07:27.290]  Because somebody actually hacked the email account, so it wasn't just like a strange email.
[07:27.510 --> 07:30.590]  It was like a continuation of an email chain, you know?
[07:30.710 --> 07:32.590]  So, it was, it was quite elaborate.
[07:32.930 --> 07:38.290]  Wait, you're, you're saying that they injected themselves into an existing chain of, of communication that you were having?
[07:39.470 --> 07:43.110]  Well, because they, they actually hacked the person's Gmail account.
[07:43.110 --> 07:43.770]  Wow, okay.
[07:43.770 --> 07:48.710]  So, this, this phishing attempt actually went back into conversations and continued them.
[07:49.690 --> 07:50.170]  Interesting.
[07:50.410 --> 07:53.970]  That, that's, that's a, a, a bit of sophistication I haven't seen before.
[07:54.410 --> 07:57.210]  Sometimes what you see is, uh, somebody's name.
[07:57.390 --> 08:01.110]  But if you look at the email address, it's, it's not yahoo.com.
[08:01.230 --> 08:03.190]  It's something, dot something, dot something else.
[08:03.650 --> 08:04.730]  But it's the right name.
[08:04.890 --> 08:06.650]  And they have the contact list.
[08:06.790 --> 08:10.390]  So, they're, they're, they're contacting all the people and asking something.
[08:10.390 --> 08:21.730]  That seems believable, but, you know, usually it's, it's the same kind of story where somebody, uh, got into trouble in a foreign country and now the hotel manager won't let them leave and they need money to pay for their room.
[08:21.930 --> 08:25.850]  It's kind of a bizarre circumstance, but it's usually something like that.
[08:26.030 --> 08:30.250]  What was, what was the situation that was, uh, was believable in, in your case?
[08:31.470 --> 08:39.210]  It was a family, uh, birthday and the person leveraged the fact that, um, the person was out of, uh, province.
[08:39.770 --> 08:42.150]  And so, they knew that, I knew that.
[08:42.370 --> 08:47.590]  So, asking for help while somebody was kind of in comedicado and the person was in comedicado.
[08:47.870 --> 08:48.210]  Uh-huh.
[08:48.450 --> 08:48.910]  Uh-huh.
[08:48.910 --> 08:55.570]  Uh, so, it, it was almost like, okay, they can't figure out what's going on for the next little while, so now's my chance or something.
[08:55.570 --> 09:02.430]  Uh, but, uh, it was, it was, yeah, it was basically a birthday gift that needed to be quickly purchased because of a promise.
[09:02.930 --> 09:03.290]  Wow.
[09:03.710 --> 09:05.570]  So, if they could have added something...
[09:05.750 --> 09:06.470]  Well, no, it's not.
[09:06.650 --> 09:13.450]  If they could have added something, uh, where, you know, don't call me because if you call me, it'll ruin the surprise or something like that.
[09:13.610 --> 09:15.790]  You know, they, they might actually be able to get a lot more...
[09:15.790 --> 09:20.070]  I don't want to, I don't want to help them, but I'm just thinking of ways that could make this even worse.
[09:20.070 --> 09:29.090]  And, and, Kirby, your, your guard is already down because you're, they're, they know you're trusting your own conversation.
[09:29.490 --> 09:29.610]  Yes.
[09:29.610 --> 09:34.690]  And they've already broken into it, so it's, you're beyond making up something or pacing something believable.
[09:34.870 --> 09:36.030]  This is the conversation.
[09:36.250 --> 09:37.110]  Alex, did you have something?
[09:38.830 --> 09:51.250]  Yeah, I, I want to say to, to Kirby, I, I think it, it is, right, is, um, that, you know, I, I think it's courageous of you to come forward and say that, that you were fished as well, uh, that, that takes guts.
[09:51.250 --> 10:04.110]  And I think it is also an indication that these scams are more and more sophisticated and there's no shame in having fallen for one of them and getting the word out about it is really the, the hacker spirit and mentality.
[10:04.110 --> 10:12.250]  I think that we want to encourage from everybody who is a victim of these because they are getting increasingly sophisticated, harder to spot.
[10:12.610 --> 10:24.690]  And, and like you said, interjecting themselves into a preexisting conversation is pivoting on a certain level of trust that you already have, uh, implicit with the, uh, account that was compromised.
[10:24.950 --> 10:34.430]  And so this is, I think it's a great service that you're doing and acknowledging that you got fished because look, it happens to everybody and it happens to security professionals.
[10:34.530 --> 10:35.750]  It happens to hackers too.
[10:35.970 --> 10:36.290]  Yeah.
[10:36.450 --> 10:37.330]  And it happens to everybody.
[10:37.510 --> 10:42.410]  Thank you for saying you got fished and not you got hacked because this is not what hacking is about.
[10:42.650 --> 10:48.790]  You know, hackers can, can recognize these things and figure them out or maybe even come up the idea in the first place.
[10:48.870 --> 10:51.930]  But when you actually do something like this, it's, it's criminal activity.
[10:51.930 --> 10:53.330]  It's stealing and it's wrong.
[10:54.770 --> 11:02.430]  Well, to be honest, I do enjoy a little fishing, so I'm a little sensitive about that term too, but at least it's spelled differently.
[11:03.750 --> 11:04.610]  Yeah, it's true.
[11:04.830 --> 11:05.350]  I'm just kidding.
[11:05.630 --> 11:05.870]  Wow.
[11:06.290 --> 11:08.330]  Well, uh, I hope it wasn't too painful.
[11:08.790 --> 11:12.450]  And, um, did, did, did, did, did your friend get their Gmail account back?
[11:14.050 --> 11:22.290]  Um, it seems like things are kind of on the up and up now, but, uh, I, I said, you know, you deal with your problem, I'll deal with mine at this point.
[11:22.690 --> 11:22.950]  Wow.
[11:23.930 --> 11:27.350]  But, um, I had one more thing I wanted to mention if, uh, if you had time.
[11:27.430 --> 11:27.750]  Yeah, go ahead.
[11:29.190 --> 11:34.210]  Um, so Bell stole my, uh, copper phone line back a couple of months ago.
[11:34.310 --> 11:34.770]  Oh, wow.
[11:34.990 --> 11:37.830]  And, uh, I didn't, I didn't know Bell Canada, of course.
[11:38.210 --> 11:45.390]  So I, I suddenly had this phone problem where the phone wasn't working, but it was my emergency copper line.
[11:45.430 --> 11:53.690]  So I didn't really want to call them because I knew I'd be on the other phone for three hours and then I'd have to be here all day waiting for somebody to show up and explain everything three times.
[11:53.690 --> 11:57.290]  And so I didn't really pay much attention to it.
[11:57.370 --> 12:03.870]  And when the tech came yesterday, he told me that the copper line has been converted over to the fiber, um, phone.
[12:04.090 --> 12:12.670]  The number has been converted over to the fiber and get this, nothing can be done because the system will turn it back at midnight.
[12:14.210 --> 12:15.330]  The system, huh?
[12:15.330 --> 12:16.290]  And so I said, what do you mean nothing can be done?
[12:16.610 --> 12:17.130]  Yeah.
[12:17.390 --> 12:31.370]  So apparently they're insinuating to me that the, the Bell phone system is in control of the entire operation that technicians have no control over what happens because at some point in the, in the night, the phone will be converted back to it.
[12:31.410 --> 12:33.290]  The number will be converted back to a fiber number.
[12:33.390 --> 12:36.890]  This, this is why you can't let artificial intelligence win in court, Alex.
[12:37.050 --> 12:37.210]  Okay.
[12:37.710 --> 12:41.650]  Just remember that because they'll just turn things off and reset them at midnight.
[12:44.270 --> 12:44.710]  Yeah.
[12:44.910 --> 12:47.730]  Well, my, maybe my first case will be against the system.
[12:48.270 --> 12:51.390]  But I'm, I'm real sorry to hear that because you have the copper line.
[12:51.390 --> 12:52.890]  That's what gets you through these storms.
[12:53.250 --> 12:54.230]  It's, it's always there.
[12:54.710 --> 12:54.870]  Yeah.
[12:54.890 --> 13:00.310]  Your fiber optic might be nice, but the battery is going to run out after a couple of hours because it's not in the central office.
[13:01.770 --> 13:02.470]  That's the thing.
[13:02.570 --> 13:04.510]  And, and that was the, that was the whole point.
[13:04.750 --> 13:08.670]  So now I have to battle them for the fact that they turned off my phone and didn't even tell me.
[13:09.190 --> 13:10.670]  Thankfully there wasn't an emergency.
[13:11.030 --> 13:11.350]  Right?
[13:11.590 --> 13:11.910]  Right.
[13:13.050 --> 13:13.410]  Yeah.
[13:13.750 --> 13:20.290]  But, uh, you know, it's, it's, I think it's a sign of the times and I just kind of have to give in because I can't fight this computer.
[13:20.550 --> 13:28.090]  Well, I think, I think speaking out is a good idea because like what Ida has shown us in New Orleans is that landlines are important.
[13:28.090 --> 13:37.990]  And if you get rid of those, when something happens, something catastrophic and all the cell towers are out or people don't have power to charge their own phones, there's no way to communicate.
[13:38.150 --> 13:44.610]  Whereas a landline it's there because it's powered in the central office and, and the actual wires are more resilient.
[13:45.010 --> 14:00.650]  So, um, uh, that, that, uh, it's a lesson I think we're, we're still learning and hopefully they'll reach some kind of, um, an arrangement where parts of the old network remains such as, you know, a pay phone that's easily accessible in every community.
[14:00.650 --> 14:09.690]  I've noticed that in Canada, uh, driving through various communities, there seems to always be one visible phone booth, uh, in, in, in many towns.
[14:09.870 --> 14:11.850]  You don't see that in the States as much.
[14:11.850 --> 14:16.890]  And I think that's a really good idea is to have something where, you know, there's going to be a landline connection.
[14:16.890 --> 14:20.470]  And if, if you have to walk a bit to get to it, okay, but at least there's something.
[14:22.230 --> 14:27.750]  And, you know, sometimes it's relaxing just to sit in the pay phone and talk on it and not have this hot phone under your ear.
[14:27.850 --> 14:28.470]  That's true too.
[14:28.570 --> 14:30.330]  Especially up in the country and stuff.
[14:30.430 --> 14:31.450]  It really is nice.
[14:31.950 --> 14:32.350]  Uh-huh.
[14:33.290 --> 14:33.650]  Absolutely.
[14:33.890 --> 14:34.090]  Absolutely.
[14:34.270 --> 14:39.070]  But anyways, guys, um, I'll let you go and I'll let somebody else call in and nice to hear from everybody.
[14:39.070 --> 14:42.170]  Uh, Rob, you sound like you got a new microphone or something.
[14:42.350 --> 14:42.890]  Sound good?
[14:44.290 --> 14:48.190]  Well, it's my same old one, but I'm sitting in a different place, in a different place in my apartment.
[14:48.390 --> 14:50.530]  So, uh, maybe, maybe I should do that more.
[14:50.570 --> 14:51.290]  Oh, better acoustics.
[14:51.410 --> 14:51.590]  Okay.
[14:52.010 --> 14:53.510]  Well, yeah, I, I agree.
[14:53.590 --> 14:54.890]  He sounds, he sounds better this week.
[14:54.890 --> 14:58.150]  Uh, Kirby, good, great to hear from you and, uh, keep listening.
[14:59.710 --> 15:00.190]  All right.
[15:00.310 --> 15:00.830]  Take care, everybody.
[15:01.290 --> 15:01.590]  Bye-bye.
[15:02.730 --> 15:05.950]  My phone number, 802-321-4225.
[15:06.170 --> 15:06.870]  I don't move fast enough.
[15:06.950 --> 15:07.570]  That noise happens.
[15:08.270 --> 15:09.590]  802-321-4225.
[15:09.790 --> 15:10.030]  Thank you.
[15:10.170 --> 15:10.550]  Thank you, Kyle.
[15:10.870 --> 15:12.650]  I was perhaps a little hasty.
[15:12.790 --> 15:12.970]  Uh-huh.
[15:12.970 --> 15:13.730]  I'm sorry about that.
[15:14.090 --> 15:14.910]  I just, uh...
[15:14.910 --> 15:15.490]  Oh, we have another phone call.
[15:15.630 --> 15:16.650]  Try to keep these calls going.
[15:16.650 --> 15:26.250]  Speaking of hacked Gmail accounts, did I tell you, Gmail thought my account was hacked, one of my accounts was hacked, um, we lost Wi-Fi, you know, for about a day or so.
[15:26.370 --> 15:27.550]  I don't know how this ties in.
[15:27.630 --> 15:31.490]  Maybe because, uh, something automatically logs in on a browser someplace.
[15:31.870 --> 15:38.790]  But both, uh, Google and Facebook freaked out when we reconnected and said, your account has been compromised.
[15:38.790 --> 15:40.950]  Not, not, you know, is this you?
[15:41.130 --> 15:48.250]  Well, it actually did ask that question, but it came after the statement, your account has, uh, your passwords in somebody else's hands.
[15:48.430 --> 15:49.230]  No, it's not.
[15:49.230 --> 15:50.730]  I know exactly what happened.
[15:51.010 --> 15:55.150]  We simply auto-logged in to Facebook and to Gmail like we're supposed to do.
[15:55.330 --> 16:04.290]  But on each of them, I had to go through all these steps and get lectured as to how to keep things more secure when it was completely unnecessary.
[16:04.370 --> 16:06.430]  Facebook even made me change passwords.
[16:06.950 --> 16:13.370]  And then they wouldn't connect properly because they were still somehow using the old password on other utilities.
[16:13.570 --> 16:18.950]  And it just, it turned into an hour of my time for something that never had to happen in the first place.
[16:19.510 --> 16:25.110]  So, yeah, you know, occasionally Gmail accounts get hacked, but sometimes it's worse when they don't.
[16:25.270 --> 16:28.470]  And when they think they did, uh, such a pain in the ass.
[16:29.250 --> 16:30.190]  That ever happened to you guys?
[16:32.250 --> 16:35.250]  No, but obviously you're, you're also angering the robots now.
[16:35.510 --> 16:50.250]  Um, and on that note, I, I just got pinged by our colleague Junce, uh, who works behind the scenes with us on this program and any number of things and who's listening to the program and, uh, pinged, uh, to let us know that South Africa and Australia have both awarded the patent to the AI.
[16:50.690 --> 16:51.970]  Oh God, it's begun.
[16:52.650 --> 16:53.690]  So, uh...
[16:53.690 --> 16:54.490]  It's too late.
[16:54.490 --> 16:55.510]  It's too late, Alex.
[16:55.830 --> 16:57.610]  We should have moved faster on this.
[16:58.090 --> 16:58.810]  Oh, no.
[16:59.050 --> 16:59.410]  Yeah.
[17:00.490 --> 17:09.270]  Well, I mean, look, it raises so many issues too, but I, it might have to do with, you know, the language of whatever their patent act or their statute is, that's an issue.
[17:09.830 --> 17:25.330]  Um, but then also I was thinking about this when Kirby was on the line and we were talking about the quote-unquote system resetting his lines, uh, and what we were talking about earlier with respect to diversity jurisdiction, right?
[17:25.450 --> 17:28.730]  Then where does this AI reside?
[17:28.730 --> 17:30.130]  Of, of what state?
[17:30.290 --> 17:31.370]  Is it a citizen?
[17:31.630 --> 17:32.750]  Yeah, is it paying taxes?
[17:32.910 --> 17:34.250]  Can you sue that AI?
[17:34.970 --> 17:35.250]  Uh-huh, right.
[17:35.470 --> 17:41.790]  You know, it, it just raises so many additional issues to grant those types of rights to a thing.
[17:41.890 --> 17:56.790]  I mean, we're going to have all kinds of legal nightmares when we meet aliens, you know, from other places, like, no, seriously, there, there are, there are companies, you know, like, like, uh, Sony and, and, and CBS, and, uh, they already have plans for how copyright will work,
[17:56.970 --> 17:59.630]  you know, how they will get content on other planets.
[17:59.710 --> 18:01.170]  And I've thought this through.
[18:01.290 --> 18:05.670]  If you, if you look in legal documents, you've seen this, all universes, right?
[18:06.150 --> 18:06.970]  That's in there.
[18:06.990 --> 18:07.330]  That's right.
[18:07.690 --> 18:08.510]  All universes.
[18:09.890 --> 18:11.110]  That, that, that is true.
[18:11.130 --> 18:15.190]  And for all times in perpetuity from the beginning of the universe till it's end.
[18:15.210 --> 18:23.330]  And all kinds of crazy, uh, language about time and space, it can be inserted into various copyright, uh, licenses and things.
[18:23.370 --> 18:24.170]  It's interesting.
[18:24.430 --> 18:24.710]  Yeah.
[18:24.850 --> 18:28.030]  All, all known, of course, that's, that's a nice one.
[18:28.690 --> 18:31.910]  Um, leaving open the possibility of unknown ones.
[18:32.050 --> 18:32.590]  Yeah, of course.
[18:32.730 --> 18:35.370]  So you think Klingons are going to respect our copyright laws?
[18:36.010 --> 18:37.490]  I mean, think carefully.
[18:38.330 --> 18:40.050]  Well, that, see, we are starting our conflict.
[18:40.170 --> 18:40.910]  You don't have to start.
[18:41.130 --> 18:44.990]  If we get to the point of talking copyright law, I think that's progress.
[18:45.550 --> 18:45.790]  Yeah.
[18:46.550 --> 18:46.950]  Seriously.
[18:46.950 --> 18:51.470]  If Klingons are watching pirated copies of Moby Dick, I think that's your least of your problems.
[18:52.530 --> 18:53.050]  All right.
[18:53.190 --> 18:54.270]  Uh, let's take this phone call.
[18:54.330 --> 18:54.630]  Good evening.
[18:54.770 --> 18:56.070]  You're on off the hook overtime.
[18:56.070 --> 18:56.590]  Go ahead.
[18:57.250 --> 18:58.290]  Yes, Emmanuel.
[18:58.890 --> 18:59.810]  It's, it's Rebel again.
[19:00.130 --> 19:00.570]  Wow.
[19:00.910 --> 19:01.330]  Yeah.
[19:02.550 --> 19:03.350]  What's on your mind?
[19:03.650 --> 19:11.510]  I just, yes, I just got back from it, uh, spending the whole month of August touring Europe, uh, various places like Holland and Amsterdam.
[19:11.790 --> 19:12.150]  That's right.
[19:12.150 --> 19:13.650]  You said you were going and you did.
[19:14.130 --> 19:14.870]  How about that?
[19:15.130 --> 19:15.150]  Yeah.
[19:15.270 --> 19:15.990]  A month went by.
[19:16.130 --> 19:23.170]  Holland and Germany and France and, and, and, uh, and, uh, uh, um, where else did I go?
[19:23.370 --> 19:24.730]  Germany, France, Holland, London.
[19:24.730 --> 19:25.730]  Let's name countries.
[19:26.250 --> 19:28.050]  Um, uh, Belarus maybe?
[19:28.390 --> 19:28.510]  Austria?
[19:29.210 --> 19:29.610]  No, no.
[19:29.890 --> 19:30.090]  Italy?
[19:31.490 --> 19:33.850]  Uh, Holland, Germany, France.
[19:35.070 --> 19:35.890]  Uh, no, I didn't go there.
[19:35.950 --> 19:38.810]  I'd like to go to some other places next year, maybe.
[19:39.110 --> 19:39.790]  How was it?
[19:40.010 --> 19:40.630]  Yeah, how was it?
[19:40.630 --> 19:42.110]  I remember, it was good.
[19:42.130 --> 19:47.910]  I remember when you used to say back in the nineties that Holland and Amsterdam was so efficient and everything is so clean.
[19:47.910 --> 19:55.090]  And I really noticed that Amsterdam, I think, was my favorite because it was so clean and the metros are so nice and clean and efficient.
[19:55.090 --> 19:58.630]  You can hear the announcements and, and the, the stations are nice.
[19:58.810 --> 20:04.010]  And, but France, Paris, I mean, London was okay, but Paris is, you know, it's okay.
[20:04.170 --> 20:06.010]  I mean, London's just like New York city.
[20:06.250 --> 20:07.650]  And I mean...
[20:08.470 --> 20:10.050]  Yeah, no, I, I see what you're saying.
[20:11.130 --> 20:13.010]  And they were paying, you know what I did when I was in London?
[20:13.290 --> 20:18.130]  I thought there's these, these, these train stations, all right, so we have Grand Central and, and Penn Station.
[20:18.310 --> 20:20.170]  They have like maybe five.
[20:20.450 --> 20:21.330]  Yeah, they have a lot.
[20:21.550 --> 20:22.710]  They have a lot of big stations.
[20:23.390 --> 20:23.790]  Okay.
[20:24.010 --> 20:34.330]  And there's this one called King's Cross where they have pay phones and I, I, you know, to get the operator there, you got to dial something like 100 or something like that.
[20:34.650 --> 20:38.410]  And then to get like long distance, you got to dial like 102 or something like that.
[20:38.490 --> 20:41.350]  So I said, you know, I want to call the United States collect.
[20:41.350 --> 20:43.450]  And I, I gave them my cell phone number.
[20:43.610 --> 20:44.350]  So, and it worked.
[20:44.450 --> 20:45.570]  I called my self collect.
[20:45.850 --> 20:51.230]  And now they, the people in King's Cross are looking at this, you know, American tourists talking to himself on a phone.
[20:51.230 --> 20:55.670]  Wait, you called your self collect in London through the United States.
[20:55.670 --> 20:56.690]  That's, that's awesome.
[20:56.870 --> 20:58.070]  That, that is a hack right there.
[20:58.950 --> 21:01.710]  How much, how much did you wind up charging yourself by the way?
[21:02.250 --> 21:03.030]  I don't know.
[21:03.130 --> 21:04.250]  I don't know if I got that.
[21:04.330 --> 21:13.030]  Cause usually if I, I can't make a collect call to my cell phone from the United States, it won't work because number one, they didn't, AT&T, and local bell operating companies.
[21:13.250 --> 21:16.430]  Well, at least Verizon doesn't do collect calls anymore.
[21:17.130 --> 21:17.990]  I didn't know that.
[21:17.990 --> 21:19.190]  They don't do collect calls anymore.
[21:19.210 --> 21:20.550]  I haven't made a collect call in ages.
[21:20.570 --> 21:21.590]  Oh, you didn't know that?
[21:21.670 --> 21:22.430]  Did not know that.
[21:22.530 --> 21:22.650]  No.
[21:22.810 --> 21:23.910]  Oh, really?
[21:24.250 --> 21:24.430]  Wow.
[21:24.550 --> 21:30.510]  If you dial a zero for local Verizon operator or, you know, an AT&T operator.
[21:30.670 --> 21:31.310]  Haven't done that either.
[21:32.370 --> 21:35.130]  Yeah, but they do not do collect third number.
[21:35.310 --> 21:38.390]  They don't do verification, be really verification or...
[21:38.390 --> 21:39.970]  Well, what's left for them to do then?
[21:40.430 --> 21:41.170]  I don't know.
[21:41.170 --> 21:42.050]  I asked them.
[21:42.210 --> 21:43.130]  I called them and asked them.
[21:43.210 --> 21:45.370]  They said, you know, we help people place calls.
[21:45.490 --> 21:46.150]  Like, I can't...
[21:46.150 --> 21:51.050]  I mean, people have cell phones and, you know, there's no more pay phones.
[21:51.250 --> 21:53.090]  Pay phones are like, you know, disappearing.
[21:53.290 --> 21:55.310]  They took out the last pay phone in my neighborhood.
[21:55.650 --> 21:56.330]  Yeah, I know.
[21:56.390 --> 21:56.750]  It's sad.
[21:57.810 --> 21:58.750]  Yeah, it really is.
[21:58.810 --> 21:59.750]  I mean, um...
[21:59.750 --> 22:00.850]  But let's get back to happy things.
[22:00.990 --> 22:08.970]  So you're calling yourself collect there in King's Cross, which is an awesome station, by the way, right next to another station, St. Pancras, um, which is interesting.
[22:09.410 --> 22:09.930]  Yeah, I think...
[22:09.930 --> 22:12.190]  Yeah, I know that there's two stations there.
[22:12.350 --> 22:13.190]  I remember that.
[22:13.650 --> 22:14.970]  And, uh, yeah, I call collect...
[22:14.970 --> 22:17.690]  I mean, I just spoke for like a minute or so just to see if it works.
[22:18.250 --> 22:21.130]  And I don't know if I'll even get billed or maybe I will, maybe I won't.
[22:21.210 --> 22:23.230]  How long was the delay when you were speaking to yourself?
[22:26.350 --> 22:27.750]  Um, maybe a second or so.
[22:27.870 --> 22:28.590]  Okay, not that bad.
[22:28.690 --> 22:29.030]  Or two.
[22:29.030 --> 22:29.670]  Uh-huh.
[22:30.590 --> 22:30.850]  Yeah.
[22:31.890 --> 22:32.770]  So, um...
[22:32.770 --> 22:33.630]  What else did you notice?
[22:35.030 --> 22:37.410]  Um, there's a lot of payphones in London.
[22:37.750 --> 22:38.870]  Uh, some of them don't work.
[22:39.750 --> 22:43.550]  Um, and, you know, the train stations are, you know, very efficient.
[22:43.690 --> 22:46.630]  The announcements are, you know, good and, um...
[22:46.630 --> 22:47.450]  Let's see, what else?
[22:47.690 --> 22:49.590]  But my favorite was Amsterdam, though.
[22:49.870 --> 22:51.410]  And you rode the Underground, of course.
[22:51.910 --> 22:53.690]  I rode the Underground, of course, yep.
[22:53.810 --> 22:55.450]  And, uh, the other ones are very hot.
[22:55.550 --> 22:56.750]  They don't have air conditioning.
[22:56.950 --> 22:57.330]  That's...
[22:57.330 --> 22:58.250]  That's true.
[22:58.250 --> 22:59.690]  No, no, it's a very good point.
[22:59.810 --> 23:03.610]  They don't have air conditioning in their trains, and as a result, it's, uh, it's warmer.
[23:03.730 --> 23:12.970]  But it's, it's not as hot as New York City subway platforms, because those get hotter because of the air conditioning on the trains, and it's, uh, it's a lot more unpleasant.
[23:13.090 --> 23:18.110]  So it's, it's just, it's generally hot throughout the system, but not unbearably hot, at least not yet.
[23:18.990 --> 23:19.390]  Right.
[23:19.530 --> 23:22.450]  And then I went to visit Oxford University and...
[23:22.450 --> 23:22.670]  Wow.
[23:23.210 --> 23:24.550]  Uh, the old building...
[23:24.550 --> 23:26.090]  Alex, didn't you go to Oxford University?
[23:27.590 --> 23:29.190]  Did I go to Oxford?
[23:29.430 --> 23:29.590]  No.
[23:29.850 --> 23:33.130]  Yeah, he went to Oxford, so you are, you are stomping on his own guns.
[23:33.210 --> 23:33.250]  Who went to Oxford?
[23:33.670 --> 23:34.190]  Alex did.
[23:34.230 --> 23:34.710]  Who went to Oxford?
[23:35.490 --> 23:35.850]  Really?
[23:35.850 --> 23:37.110]  I went to Oxford, Rebelite.
[23:37.250 --> 23:40.550]  I have a law degree from Oxford called the BCL.
[23:40.610 --> 23:43.130]  You went to London, to England, for that, oh, that's...
[23:43.130 --> 23:48.890]  Mention, mention, mention a building so that we, we, we know that the two of you are talking about the same cause.
[23:49.010 --> 23:52.790]  Uh, there's the Bodleian, there's the Radcliffe camera, I was at...
[23:52.790 --> 23:55.030]  But you can't both be talking at the same time, though.
[23:55.090 --> 23:55.890]  You have to listen to each other.
[23:56.710 --> 23:57.070]  Okay.
[23:57.410 --> 24:00.170]  Uh, the Radcliffe camera is still not doing it.
[24:00.470 --> 24:01.870]  Okay, Alex, you talk first.
[24:02.490 --> 24:02.870]  Okay.
[24:03.390 --> 24:05.930]  Uh, there's the Radcliffe camera, the Bodleian.
[24:06.130 --> 24:09.450]  I was a member of New College Oxford, which is a bit of a misnomer.
[24:09.570 --> 24:10.110]  That's enough.
[24:10.110 --> 24:11.730]  Now, now Rebel, you say something.
[24:12.490 --> 24:25.250]  I don't remember those, but I do remember at the, just, I have a video, I recorded it with my phone, you know, I just went to see the old buildings, the old ancient buildings from like the, like hundreds of years ago.
[24:25.430 --> 24:31.350]  And, you know, they, they had these thick British accents saying, you know, uh, would you like to go to F&MT and all that?
[24:31.350 --> 24:32.130]  That's really general.
[24:33.310 --> 24:38.250]  Is there anything you can say about the place that Alex would say, oh yeah, I know that place or just describe something?
[24:38.250 --> 24:49.210]  I, the only thing that place that I recognize is, not recognize, but the only place that I, that I kind of remember is the oldest tea shop in Europe.
[24:49.470 --> 24:51.330]  It's like a hundred, hundreds of years old.
[24:51.970 --> 24:52.890]  The oldest cheese shop?
[24:52.910 --> 24:53.590]  I have it on video.
[24:53.850 --> 24:55.150]  I mean, I have a video of it.
[24:55.230 --> 24:56.490]  I recorded videos of things.
[24:56.570 --> 24:57.630]  Did I, wait, did I hear right?
[24:57.730 --> 24:58.950]  The oldest cheese shop?
[24:59.730 --> 25:00.590]  No, tea shop.
[25:00.710 --> 25:01.450]  Oh, tea shop.
[25:01.610 --> 25:01.730]  Okay.
[25:03.270 --> 25:04.630]  Or coffee shop or whatever.
[25:05.330 --> 25:07.770]  Did you ever go to the oldest tea shop, Alex?
[25:08.370 --> 25:12.750]  Uh, I, you know, it could very well be an Oxford.
[25:13.010 --> 25:19.510]  I mean, I, I don't know which one that is, but there are a lot of very, very old things there.
[25:19.590 --> 25:31.490]  As I mentioned about my college was founded in the 14th century and I used to live in college next to the old city wall, which was created in the 12th century.
[25:31.910 --> 25:42.350]  So it was, it was amazing to me that I used to go out in this garden and there was a wall there that had been standing for nearly four times longer than my country had existed.
[25:42.670 --> 25:44.950]  You know, it, it blows your mind in a lot of ways.
[25:46.610 --> 25:47.670]  I was really interested.
[25:47.850 --> 25:59.070]  Then I went to Germany and, uh, well, I did, I kind of made the itinerary, the itinerary, um, it said, because I wanted to go on the Autobahn.
[25:59.230 --> 26:07.230]  So I drove from Berlin to Frankfurt because Frankfurt, uh, Lufthansa is the only airline that flies 747 or one of the few.
[26:07.230 --> 26:11.050]  So, and I wanted to take a 747 because I haven't been on one in like over 20 years.
[26:11.210 --> 26:11.410]  Wow.
[26:11.610 --> 26:14.850]  And, um, so I did only, they only fly from Frankfurt to Newark.
[26:15.050 --> 26:16.250]  So that's what I did.
[26:16.390 --> 26:25.810]  I visited Berlin and then drove from Berlin to Frankfurt and, you know, on the Autobahn and I rented a BMW on purpose so I could go 120 miles an hour.
[26:25.810 --> 26:27.930]  Damn, you did things in style, Rebel, I gotta say.
[26:28.050 --> 26:28.730]  What did you think of Berlin?
[26:28.730 --> 26:29.330]  I really did.
[26:30.170 --> 26:31.130]  I, I liked Berlin.
[26:31.270 --> 26:35.310]  I mean, Berlin is, Berlin was, I mean, Frankfurt was nice.
[26:35.570 --> 26:36.750]  Berlin was, you know, okay.
[26:37.230 --> 26:42.930]  Um, but, um, let's see, I mean, between Frankfurt and Berlin was nice.
[26:42.930 --> 26:47.230]  I liked the, the, the, the towns and the little villages in, in Germany.
[26:47.910 --> 26:53.790]  And, you know, I stayed, you know, in one of the towns, you know, in between Frankfurt and Germany and Berlin.
[26:54.970 --> 27:00.930]  And then I came home from Berlin, Berlin, and, um, I guess, I guess that's it.
[27:01.090 --> 27:02.190]  You know, I, uh.
[27:02.890 --> 27:05.110]  How long, how long were you over there in, in total?
[27:06.290 --> 27:09.170]  I was, I left, like, the beginning of August, like, August 7th.
[27:09.230 --> 27:12.350]  And I got back last week, like, September 3rd or whatever.
[27:12.550 --> 27:13.330]  Okay, almost a month.
[27:13.430 --> 27:13.810]  That's great.
[27:13.950 --> 27:15.430]  That's a great, great duration.
[27:16.850 --> 27:17.170]  Wow.
[27:17.250 --> 27:17.710]  Yeah, it is.
[27:17.810 --> 27:23.250]  And, and, you know, I, I really, I, I, I'd like to maybe next year go, like, Switzerland and...
[27:23.590 --> 27:24.050]  Mm-hmm.
[27:24.050 --> 27:26.930]  Well, in Switzerland, be prepared to pay a lot for everything.
[27:27.050 --> 27:29.450]  A sandwich will cost you 40 bucks, you know, for no reason.
[27:29.870 --> 27:30.090]  Right.
[27:30.790 --> 27:30.830]  Yeah.
[27:31.370 --> 27:40.410]  But, but conversely, if, if you go to a place like former Yugoslavia, Serbia, Croatia, places like that, awesome places, and things are so cheap, so, you know.
[27:40.530 --> 27:40.750]  Right.
[27:40.870 --> 27:46.450]  Yeah, I'd like to go visit, like, odd countries, like, you know, uh, what's it?
[27:46.590 --> 27:46.850]  Yeah.
[27:47.110 --> 27:47.470]  Albania.
[27:47.590 --> 27:47.910]  Try that.
[27:49.010 --> 27:50.250]  But, uh, yeah, maybe.
[27:51.330 --> 27:53.170]  It's hard to get to, but, uh, it's worth it.
[27:54.430 --> 27:55.290]  Oh, man.
[27:55.670 --> 27:56.970]  I remember you mentioning that.
[27:57.330 --> 27:57.950]  Let's see, what else?
[27:58.270 --> 28:07.650]  Um, yeah, so, nobody, nobody, there's no more reporters, like, Kyle, like, in the news when you look at CNN and, and news, like, or, uh, any news.
[28:07.890 --> 28:09.590]  Like, yeah, everybody works from home now.
[28:09.730 --> 28:21.530]  There's, you know, you know how I like to remember, there's, like, just news, like, you have the, the, the, the, the newscaster in the, in the news thing, and then, they, they, they don't work, uh, there's no, you know what I mean?
[28:21.670 --> 28:24.830]  It's, I think they're all on, like, Zoom calls now or whatever.
[28:25.170 --> 28:28.870]  No, news desk, where, where, um, yeah, it's all frenetic activity.
[28:30.450 --> 28:32.290]  Yeah, and there's no more news desk.
[28:32.450 --> 28:40.370]  I mean, it's just newscasters, and then they, when they go to the different reporters and different people, it's on, like, you know, uh, uh, uh, Cisco Webex or whatever.
[28:40.810 --> 28:41.590]  Yeah, I know.
[28:41.670 --> 28:45.110]  I hope we don't stay that way, but for now, that's, that's how things have to be.
[28:46.010 --> 28:53.730]  Yeah, what, um, what, um, yeah, the WBAI is in Brooklyn now, it keeps moving, and now that that transmitter is in Times Square.
[28:53.910 --> 28:59.010]  Yeah, one step ahead of us, you know, that we think we know where they are, and then they move, and they don't tell us, and we have to try and find them again.
[29:00.270 --> 29:00.590]  Hmm.
[29:01.190 --> 29:02.150]  That's just the nature of it.
[29:02.170 --> 29:02.870]  Yes, Alex, go ahead.
[29:04.930 --> 29:12.790]  Yeah, I, I wanted to bring the conversation back to something that Rebel had, uh, initially mentioned, which was the collect call issue.
[29:13.150 --> 29:16.950]  And I'm going to, to bring up a blast from the past, Rebel.
[29:17.370 --> 29:20.230]  Do you remember 1-800-288-2880?
[29:22.710 --> 29:23.750]  288-288-0.
[29:23.750 --> 29:27.030]  Well, I can tell right away that's AT&T, because 288 is AT&T.
[29:27.410 --> 29:27.830]  Yes.
[29:27.830 --> 29:29.190]  Right, you were, do you remember that one, Rebel?
[29:29.330 --> 29:30.810]  1-800-288-288-0?
[29:33.090 --> 29:35.930]  No, 280... It sounds like something you would have invented, Rebel.
[29:36.750 --> 29:37.910]  Yeah, seriously, yeah.
[29:38.790 --> 29:41.810]  I remember 1-800-CAL-L-A-T-T-0.
[29:42.030 --> 29:44.170]  Yeah, 1-800-CAL-L-A-T-T, I remember that one too.
[29:44.410 --> 29:44.950]  That, though.
[29:46.170 --> 29:48.810]  I don't know if I could do three-way on this, but...
[29:49.470 --> 29:51.270]  I can dial it, actually.
[29:51.570 --> 29:52.630]  That's really quite interesting.
[29:52.630 --> 29:53.850]  Bring in outside operators.
[29:54.850 --> 29:55.710]  Yeah, that's true.
[29:55.710 --> 30:05.870]  Well, I know that if you call 1-800-CAL-A-T-T, it does not go to 1-800-CAL-L-A-T-T, it goes to AT&T's business officer, like customer service something.
[30:07.050 --> 30:20.530]  Well, right, but you can still make a collect call from 1-800-288-288-0, but if you dial 1-800-288-288-0, a different company has picked up the telephone.
[30:20.970 --> 30:21.170]  Really?
[30:21.570 --> 30:22.350]  I've picked up the telephone.
[30:22.470 --> 30:23.890]  In Telecall Operator Services.
[30:24.170 --> 30:25.130]  No, they didn't.
[30:25.190 --> 30:29.590]  Please enter the area code and number you are calling, followed by the pound sign.
[30:30.070 --> 30:32.150]  802-321-4225.
[30:35.320 --> 30:36.300]  Yeah, great line.
[30:36.300 --> 30:37.500]  This is going to be great.
[30:40.830 --> 30:41.730]  I bet you it doesn't work.
[30:41.730 --> 30:43.950]  To make a collect call, press 1 now.
[30:44.190 --> 30:45.590]  Yeah, I dare you, Alex.
[30:47.330 --> 30:49.370]  At the tone, please speak your name.
[30:50.530 --> 30:51.050]  Rebel.
[30:53.490 --> 30:54.430]  Please hold.
[30:54.690 --> 30:58.190]  There may be a few moments of silence while we process your call.
[30:58.610 --> 31:00.210]  Well, we're not going to hear it.
[31:00.730 --> 31:01.350]  Oh, wow.
[31:01.870 --> 31:02.870]  That's not silence.
[31:03.670 --> 31:05.210]  No, that's annoying.
[31:05.450 --> 31:06.070]  Hold music, yeah.
[31:06.170 --> 31:06.850]  Put them on the line.
[31:07.030 --> 31:08.190]  How are they going to call?
[31:08.290 --> 31:09.670]  Yeah, they're not.
[31:09.950 --> 31:10.670]  It's going to...
[31:10.670 --> 31:19.130]  We only have one phone line attached to that, but Google, Google phones, or Google Voice, whatever they call themselves, they will route it to their voicemail.
[31:20.010 --> 31:21.490]  Oh, until you get a message.
[31:21.710 --> 31:22.330]  If you're a hangover.
[31:22.510 --> 31:24.710]  Yeah, and maybe we'll hear it sometime.
[31:25.670 --> 31:26.530]  Oh, now it's silent.
[31:26.790 --> 31:27.390]  It's played on the air.
[31:27.530 --> 31:28.290]  Played on the...
[31:28.290 --> 31:29.270]  Oh, it's not on the air anymore.
[31:31.770 --> 31:32.990]  It's classical guitarist.
[31:33.270 --> 31:33.330]  Now, we're still there.
[31:33.450 --> 31:34.930]  Yeah, that is something.
[31:35.790 --> 31:37.190]  No, Kyle, you had something.
[31:39.750 --> 31:40.470]  Well, the...
[31:41.650 --> 31:42.250]  I don't know.
[31:42.350 --> 31:47.310]  The calls being collect, I think I was going to speak to that.
[31:48.650 --> 31:49.010]  Disappearing.
[31:49.230 --> 31:51.050]  Well, apparently you can do it with this service.
[31:52.970 --> 32:00.410]  Yeah, I mean, we should try calling the 802-321-4225 number when Rebel hangs up and see what happens.
[32:00.550 --> 32:01.170]  Yeah, yeah.
[32:01.330 --> 32:02.790]  Do that when I hang up.
[32:02.870 --> 32:04.990]  Yeah, well, good luck getting in before another caller calls.
[32:05.290 --> 32:05.590]  We're not rushing you off.
[32:05.790 --> 32:06.010]  Yeah.
[32:06.770 --> 32:07.310]  So what else will call in?
[32:07.310 --> 32:08.130]  Tell people not to call.
[32:08.650 --> 32:09.230]  Oh, okay.
[32:09.250 --> 32:09.830]  That's easy.
[32:10.010 --> 32:11.310]  Yeah, just tell people not to do something.
[32:11.570 --> 32:12.390]  They'll listen to me.
[32:12.970 --> 32:13.570]  That'll work.
[32:15.190 --> 32:19.950]  How long, Alex, are they going to keep us holding for while you try to collect call to a number that's busy?
[32:24.070 --> 32:28.770]  Oh, it just indicated that we're now holding for an operator.
[32:29.870 --> 32:30.350]  Oh.
[32:30.790 --> 32:31.390]  A human.
[32:34.850 --> 32:35.330]  Yeah.
[32:35.710 --> 32:41.510]  And I think we've switched over to some Baroque acoustic guitar now as well.
[32:42.490 --> 32:44.790]  It's probably an operator in India or something.
[32:45.370 --> 32:48.110]  You know, the same people who call you and say that you're from the attorney number.
[32:48.290 --> 32:50.190]  What number would you like to call?
[32:50.190 --> 32:54.850]  8-0-2-3-2-1-4-2-2-5, please.
[32:55.970 --> 32:57.590]  Is this a collect call, sir?
[32:57.770 --> 32:58.770]  Yes, it is.
[32:59.370 --> 33:00.370]  Do you have your name?
[33:00.790 --> 33:01.950]  My name is Rebel.
[33:03.990 --> 33:05.110]  Okay, Sir Rebel.
[33:05.290 --> 33:05.770]  Please hold.
[33:06.190 --> 33:06.870]  You got it.
[33:07.190 --> 33:08.030]  Sir Rebel.
[33:12.870 --> 33:14.390]  It's just doing the same thing.
[33:14.770 --> 33:14.990]  Yeah.
[33:15.250 --> 33:15.410]  Yeah.
[33:15.610 --> 33:20.950]  I think now it's just a person doing it rather than a patent-holding artificial intelligence in Australia.
[33:21.210 --> 33:22.910]  So, Alex, you are now known as Sir Rebel.
[33:23.050 --> 33:23.790]  Hello, Sir Rebel.
[33:24.230 --> 33:24.670]  Yes.
[33:26.070 --> 33:28.990]  I'm very sorry, but I only receive a voicemail.
[33:29.170 --> 33:29.970]  Is there anything else?
[33:30.150 --> 33:31.610]  Are you sure it wasn't a human?
[33:33.990 --> 33:34.690]  Yes, sir.
[33:34.970 --> 33:35.770]  How do you know?
[33:35.770 --> 33:36.790]  It seems like...
[33:37.910 --> 33:40.590]  I think, sir, that is a recorded voicemail.
[33:40.950 --> 33:41.230]  Okay.
[33:41.630 --> 33:42.070]  Yeah.
[33:42.250 --> 33:42.650]  All right.
[33:42.870 --> 33:43.070]  Yeah.
[33:44.910 --> 33:45.470]  All right.
[33:45.630 --> 33:47.610]  Well, maybe we'll try back in a little bit.
[33:48.230 --> 33:51.470]  Is there any way I can just build a call to that number and leave a message?
[33:52.990 --> 33:53.690]  Okay, sir.
[33:53.690 --> 33:59.450]  I suggest that when you dial the number directly to your phone, just add one before the area code.
[33:59.690 --> 34:01.510]  Since this is the long-distance number.
[34:01.730 --> 34:02.590]  Is there anything else?
[34:08.670 --> 34:09.550]  I'm sorry.
[34:09.850 --> 34:10.490]  Yes, sir.
[34:10.630 --> 34:14.670]  But unfortunately, we are not allowed to dial an international number.
[34:15.050 --> 34:18.830]  But you can dial 00 for a long-distance operator.
[34:19.550 --> 34:19.810]  Okay.
[34:19.810 --> 34:21.230]  So I couldn't call...
[34:21.230 --> 34:22.930]  I couldn't call Albania?
[34:24.910 --> 34:25.750]  Yes, sir.
[34:25.870 --> 34:30.270]  But you need to hang up this call and dial 00 for a long-distance operator.
[34:30.630 --> 34:30.930]  Okay.
[34:30.930 --> 34:33.790]  What company is this that I called?
[34:35.610 --> 34:37.990]  This is the Anthemical Operator Service, sir.
[34:38.370 --> 34:38.610]  Okay.
[34:38.750 --> 34:40.410]  This is not AT&T, right?
[34:42.210 --> 34:42.790]  Yes, sir.
[34:42.950 --> 34:43.130]  Okay.
[34:43.190 --> 34:44.010]  And where are you located?
[34:46.390 --> 34:48.590]  We are located in Southeast Asia, sir.
[34:49.050 --> 34:49.310]  Okay.
[34:49.570 --> 34:49.950]  Great.
[34:50.110 --> 34:50.830]  That's good to know.
[34:51.070 --> 34:52.290]  Thank you so much for your help.
[34:53.870 --> 34:56.070]  Thank you for using Anthemical Operator Service.
[34:56.370 --> 34:57.990]  Thank you.
[34:58.150 --> 34:58.410]  Bye-bye.
[34:58.750 --> 34:59.750]  Well, there you have it.
[34:59.790 --> 34:59.970]  Wow.
[35:00.030 --> 35:00.870]  I'm so sorry for her.
[35:00.870 --> 35:03.990]  They sounded like they were in the Philippines or something.
[35:04.590 --> 35:06.430]  Well, Southeast Asia, you're going to have to deal with that.
[35:06.510 --> 35:06.930]  Rob, go ahead.
[35:07.630 --> 35:19.550]  I love so much that there is a company out there that, first of all, the phone number wasn't of enough interest to AT&T, mega corporation AT&T, to keep paying to maintain.
[35:19.670 --> 35:20.910]  So they just let it go.
[35:21.050 --> 35:28.450]  And I love that some other ramshackle phone company somewhere was shady enough to go scoop that up and take it on themselves.
[35:29.270 --> 35:30.490]  That is just...
[35:30.490 --> 35:34.730]  I have respect for this scrappy little Southeast Asian phone company.
[35:34.790 --> 35:36.870]  Well, I don't know if they're Southeast Asian per se.
[35:37.310 --> 35:37.930]  What's their name?
[35:38.150 --> 35:38.550]  IntelliCall?
[35:38.910 --> 35:39.310]  IntelliDial?
[35:39.530 --> 35:40.590]  I mean, I've heard of them before.
[35:41.750 --> 35:41.910]  Yeah.
[35:42.270 --> 35:43.890]  IntelliCall used to be a cold-cut company.
[35:43.970 --> 35:45.490]  Yeah, I think they used to be a cold-cut company.
[35:45.530 --> 35:48.150]  Maybe even a prison company, you know, prison phone calls.
[35:48.230 --> 35:48.590]  Hold on.
[35:48.690 --> 35:50.110]  Let's call this one more time.
[35:50.490 --> 35:52.170]  If you get that one again...
[35:52.170 --> 35:53.010]  IntelliCall Operator Services.
[35:53.990 --> 35:55.170]  IntelliCall Operator Services.
[35:56.250 --> 36:01.270]  Yeah, I think they were amongst the first cold-cut people, I think.
[36:01.690 --> 36:02.390]  I could be wrong.
[36:02.850 --> 36:03.570]  But that's what...
[36:03.570 --> 36:07.310]  When you name a company IntelliAnything, it's going to be mixed up with all other companies as well.
[36:08.190 --> 36:09.130]  Yeah, of course.
[36:09.410 --> 36:09.510]  Yeah.
[36:09.710 --> 36:10.010]  But, wow.
[36:10.250 --> 36:11.810]  But, interesting, fun experiment.
[36:12.590 --> 36:12.830]  Yeah.
[36:13.170 --> 36:15.150]  All brought to you by Rebel and now SirRible.
[36:16.690 --> 36:17.230]  That's right.
[36:17.490 --> 36:20.930]  I'll play with this number, too, and see if maybe I can call my cell phone collect.
[36:21.970 --> 36:22.770]  Or maybe not.
[36:22.890 --> 36:23.390]  Give it a shot.
[36:23.390 --> 36:27.230]  You know, the old MCI number, I always have trouble remembering this.
[36:27.370 --> 36:30.390]  It's 1-800-444-44...
[36:34.850 --> 36:35.830]  What are the last two?
[36:37.070 --> 36:37.850]  4-4.
[36:38.110 --> 36:38.390]  4-4.
[36:38.470 --> 36:38.930]  Right, that's it.
[36:39.030 --> 36:39.130]  Right.
[36:39.490 --> 36:41.950]  If you call that, it'll read back your phone number.
[36:43.370 --> 36:43.770]  Really?
[36:43.950 --> 36:45.590]  Not 1-800-MY-A-N-I-A-S?
[36:45.730 --> 36:52.150]  Well, maybe two, but I'm saying that number, which I've already forgotten, will do that as well.
[36:52.150 --> 36:54.250]  A lot like they used to do back in the MCI days.
[36:55.330 --> 36:55.450]  Hmm.
[36:56.250 --> 36:56.450]  Huh.
[36:57.010 --> 37:00.930]  Well, 1-800-MY-A-N-I-S does not work anymore.
[37:01.190 --> 37:01.990]  I'm sorry to hear that.
[37:03.470 --> 37:04.510]  All right, Rebel, anything else?
[37:04.590 --> 37:05.090]  We're going to move on.
[37:06.570 --> 37:07.430]  No, I guess not.
[37:07.530 --> 37:09.490]  Well, anybody, do not call yet.
[37:09.490 --> 37:11.770]  Let's try calling the thing collect.
[37:11.770 --> 37:12.390]  Oh, boy.
[37:12.870 --> 37:14.250]  All right, let's see if that works.
[37:14.430 --> 37:16.870]  I kind of doubt it's going to, but we'll try.
[37:17.910 --> 37:18.790]  Thank you, Rebel.
[37:18.790 --> 37:23.610]  Well, Alex, dial it now, and then when the thing comes out, I'll hang up.
[37:26.510 --> 37:30.150]  Take your direction from Rebel, Alex, and do what he says.
[37:31.170 --> 37:32.490]  I'm doing it right now.
[37:32.570 --> 37:33.070]  Here we go.
[37:33.250 --> 37:33.790]  You got it.
[37:33.950 --> 37:34.090]  Yep.
[37:34.230 --> 37:35.170]  And then I'm going to go on mute.
[37:37.930 --> 37:39.570]  IntelliCall Operator Services.
[37:40.230 --> 37:44.810]  Please enter the area code and number you're calling, followed by the pound sign.
[37:48.280 --> 37:50.860]  To make a collect call, press one now.
[37:51.240 --> 37:51.960]  To bill to...
[37:51.960 --> 37:53.200]  Is Rebel still...
[37:53.200 --> 37:54.080]  Please speak your name.
[37:54.140 --> 37:54.960]  Is Rebel still there?
[37:55.580 --> 37:56.260]  Sir Rebel.
[37:56.340 --> 37:57.000]  I'm going to hang up now.
[37:57.020 --> 37:57.760]  Hang up now, Rebel.
[37:58.640 --> 37:59.260]  Good talking to you.
[37:59.660 --> 38:03.160]  There may be a few moments of silence while we process your call.
[38:03.340 --> 38:03.920]  Let's see what happens.
[38:06.880 --> 38:07.700]  Okay, here we go.
[38:07.920 --> 38:08.380]  It's exciting.
[38:09.600 --> 38:10.000]  Hello?
[38:11.560 --> 38:12.740]  Hello, I'm picking up the phone.
[38:12.880 --> 38:14.000]  Call Operator Services.
[38:15.560 --> 38:16.320]  Sir Rebel.
[38:17.700 --> 38:18.800]  Is calling collect.
[38:19.300 --> 38:22.200]  However, collect calls are not allowed to your number.
[38:22.400 --> 38:23.260]  Then why are you calling me?
[38:23.380 --> 38:25.000]  Would you like to pay for this call with a credit card?
[38:25.420 --> 38:25.780]  Oh.
[38:25.900 --> 38:27.280]  To accept this call, press one.
[38:27.660 --> 38:30.060]  To deny this call, press zero now.
[38:30.460 --> 38:32.060]  Please enter your choice now.
[38:33.740 --> 38:34.820]  What did you hit, Kyle?
[38:35.660 --> 38:36.680]  What number did you hit?
[38:37.020 --> 38:37.380]  Zero.
[38:37.620 --> 38:38.220]  You hit zero.
[38:39.180 --> 38:41.820]  If you had hit one, I wonder what we could have done.
[38:42.300 --> 38:45.680]  It would have prompted us for a credit card number and then we could have had all kinds of fun with that.
[38:46.980 --> 38:47.420]  Wow.
[38:47.660 --> 38:50.320]  Do you think any number will accept a collect call from them?
[38:50.900 --> 38:54.440]  Because I don't think we put blocking on that line, but we might have.
[38:57.340 --> 38:57.960]  I don't know.
[38:58.060 --> 38:58.600]  It's fascinating, though.
[38:58.680 --> 38:59.940]  They're not Southeast Asian.
[39:00.100 --> 39:00.900]  They appear to be...
[39:00.900 --> 39:04.800]  Cursor Research brings up incorporations in a whole bunch of different U.S.
[39:05.140 --> 39:07.620]  states, which doesn't look shady at all.
[39:07.820 --> 39:07.960]  No.
[39:08.120 --> 39:09.180]  But, yeah.
[39:10.480 --> 39:11.180]  It's fascinating.
[39:11.380 --> 39:16.240]  I remember back in the days of these phone numbers, you know, AT&T had theirs, MCI had theirs.
[39:16.560 --> 39:19.760]  There was a little company somewhere called, I think, Pelican.
[39:20.260 --> 39:31.080]  And what they did was they got the phone numbers 1-800-3825-ATT and 3825-MCI and 3825-SPR for Sprint.
[39:32.140 --> 39:36.660]  Sorry to interrupt, Rob, but I think another call should be coming in this time.
[39:36.740 --> 39:38.420]  Let's see if it's an actual operator, then.
[39:38.540 --> 39:39.120]  Oh, that's you?
[39:39.720 --> 39:40.080]  Yes.
[39:40.700 --> 39:41.040]  Hello?
[39:42.000 --> 39:42.620]  I'm sorry.
[39:42.800 --> 39:46.940]  I've been down to the room and I've shared a call, however, he is not responding.
[39:47.460 --> 39:47.820]  Okay.
[39:48.040 --> 39:48.240]  You know what?
[39:48.500 --> 39:49.360]  I'm right here.
[39:49.660 --> 39:54.280]  I think that it's, you know, I just got a message from them that they were away from the phone.
[39:54.380 --> 39:55.040]  They just missed it.
[39:56.560 --> 39:57.880]  And take me home.
[39:58.420 --> 39:58.660]  Yep.
[40:00.260 --> 40:00.520]  Wow.
[40:01.660 --> 40:03.400]  Don't forget to pick up where you left off, Rob.
[40:03.500 --> 40:03.880]  Coming through.
[40:03.980 --> 40:04.480]  Let's pick up the phone.
[40:05.040 --> 40:05.440]  Hello?
[40:08.120 --> 40:08.640]  Hello?
[40:09.480 --> 40:11.840]  Yes, I have a collect call from Rebel.
[40:12.540 --> 40:16.100]  Would you like to pay for this call with a credit card?
[40:16.480 --> 40:17.420]  What kind of call?
[40:19.200 --> 40:21.920]  I have a collect call from Rebel.
[40:22.180 --> 40:22.280]  What?
[40:22.360 --> 40:28.620]  However, collect calls are not allowed their number, so would you like to pay for this call with a credit card?
[40:29.320 --> 40:31.380]  You're asking me for a credit card number?
[40:32.580 --> 40:33.000]  Yes.
[40:33.800 --> 40:37.460]  I think you know that you're not supposed to give out credit card numbers when people call you.
[40:38.480 --> 40:39.860]  That's real number one.
[40:40.240 --> 40:41.560]  Yeah, I just...
[40:41.560 --> 40:42.520]  Thanks for answering the call.
[40:42.720 --> 40:43.460]  You're very welcome.
[40:43.480 --> 40:44.160]  Have a nice day.
[40:44.220 --> 40:44.520]  You do.
[40:44.720 --> 40:45.020]  You too.
[40:46.700 --> 40:49.280]  I mean, otherwise, she sounded like a perfectly pleasant person.
[40:49.400 --> 40:53.500]  But, okay, Alice, can we stop wasting these poor people's time over there?
[40:53.740 --> 40:54.780]  These poor people.
[40:54.800 --> 40:56.220]  I feel so sorry for them.
[40:56.420 --> 40:57.040]  I really do.
[40:57.220 --> 40:57.920]  Dealing with us.
[40:58.420 --> 41:00.240]  Rob, now, you were saying...
[41:00.240 --> 41:00.660]  Oh, yeah.
[41:00.700 --> 41:07.800]  I was talking about the company that had 1-800-3825-ATT, which I always thought was a bit of scrappy fun from back then.
[41:08.000 --> 41:09.460]  What does 385 spell out?
[41:10.140 --> 41:23.260]  Well, we're not on the airwaves right now, but I still, you know, I feel professional enough as a part of this program to not say what it spells in letters on the air or the internet.
[41:23.280 --> 41:24.180]  Now I know, yes.
[41:24.400 --> 41:28.920]  I remember, you know, we found people at the local college that had that number as a suffix.
[41:29.100 --> 41:34.080]  You know, it was 632 plus those numbers, which I don't even say the numbers.
[41:34.380 --> 41:37.280]  And we'd call them and make their lives miserable.
[41:37.760 --> 41:38.840]  Good old times.
[41:39.540 --> 41:42.860]  Okay, our phone number is still there, so you can call it now.
[41:43.840 --> 41:46.800]  802-321-4225, except somebody already called.
[41:46.960 --> 41:48.260]  So let's take this call.
[41:48.360 --> 41:48.740]  Good evening.
[41:48.740 --> 41:50.080]  You're on Off the Hook Overtime.
[41:51.880 --> 41:53.140]  Hello, how you doing?
[41:53.320 --> 41:53.820]  Good, how are you?
[41:54.720 --> 41:55.360]  I'm okay.
[41:55.660 --> 41:57.040]  It's Phillip from Missouri.
[41:58.240 --> 41:59.820]  Wait a minute, that was a different voice.
[42:01.700 --> 42:02.860]  Did your voice change?
[42:04.040 --> 42:06.080]  No, I get tired and I sound a little different.
[42:06.220 --> 42:07.200]  My accent shows more.
[42:07.760 --> 42:09.320]  Okay, I heard a different voice.
[42:09.460 --> 42:09.620]  first.
[42:09.800 --> 42:12.120]  I think he was surprised to get the answer so quick.
[42:12.220 --> 42:12.520]  I'm sorry.
[42:13.420 --> 42:16.920]  Have you ever heard of a site called McBroken.com?
[42:18.540 --> 42:19.400]  No, not me.
[42:20.240 --> 42:20.720]  McBroken?
[42:21.500 --> 42:21.980]  Yeah.
[42:22.540 --> 42:22.840]  No?
[42:22.900 --> 42:25.680]  M-C-B-R-O-K-E-N.com.
[42:26.000 --> 42:26.620]  What do they have?
[42:26.760 --> 42:27.440]  What's on their site?
[42:27.640 --> 42:32.020]  Well, it tracks McDonald's broken ice cream machines.
[42:32.320 --> 42:33.720]  what's with the ice cream machines?
[42:33.740 --> 42:37.220]  I keep hearing about some scandal involving McDonald's ice cream machines.
[42:37.520 --> 42:37.620]  Yes.
[42:38.160 --> 42:40.220]  Yes, this is what this is about.
[42:40.800 --> 42:47.100]  You see, the theory is it's like you know, late at night when it usually happens they say it's broken.
[42:47.420 --> 42:51.740]  Like, or when the non-24 hour one's about to close down or something like that.
[42:52.380 --> 42:52.660]  Right.
[42:53.300 --> 43:01.180]  So, the theory is they're saying that it's broken so they can get it cleaned because it's like a four hour clean cycle on it from what I heard.
[43:01.480 --> 43:01.980]  Right?
[43:02.300 --> 43:02.540]  Yeah.
[43:03.240 --> 43:12.760]  Well, anyway, they started a site up to track which ice cream machines are reported down through the drive-thru or whatever else on McBroken.com.
[43:13.580 --> 43:26.500]  Well, this company decided to make an app for the ice cream machine because when it when it breaks down it gets out of code and nobody knows how to read it unless you have the manual and whatnot.
[43:28.480 --> 43:39.820]  And the what it does it takes the code from the machine and it puts it into plain English and it will text the manager whoever's in charge to clean the machine so that they can fix it.
[43:40.200 --> 43:45.460]  Like saying, well, there's a belt broken and it'll say, well, there's a belt broken instead of some weird code.
[43:46.320 --> 43:58.500]  Well, the company McDonald's heard about this and decided to sue the company and the company that made the ice cream machine decided to jump in and say, well, you can't do this.
[43:59.380 --> 44:07.360]  So, so after they sued them and did a cease and desist and desist on it, McDonald's decided, well, this is a good idea.
[44:07.460 --> 44:08.620]  Why don't we do this ourselves?
[44:09.840 --> 44:19.460]  So, they basically stole the idea for themselves and the company is now suing McDonald's anti-ice cream machine company to be able to...
[44:19.460 --> 44:20.640]  Well, it makes sense.
[44:20.740 --> 44:22.140]  I don't know why they don't do this anyway.
[44:22.300 --> 44:27.380]  Why would you make it so cryptic on an ice cream machine to be able to fix it?
[44:27.540 --> 44:29.420]  I mean, it's the same thing with the computer, right?
[44:29.660 --> 44:31.940]  Special Windows that gives you hex codes all the time.
[44:32.580 --> 44:35.740]  Why can't you just tell me what's going on like my ramp is bad?
[44:36.800 --> 45:07.060]  This is a great story and it has a lot of a lot of good reminders about design and the trade-offs and then companies that have monopolies that then choose other companies and then those companies become sort of parasitic and sort of thrive off the inefficiency of the very large company that awarded them a contract.
[45:07.520 --> 45:26.200]  Very similar to Warfare, I guess, but in this case, I think the ice cream machine company is Taylor and the machine itself was incredibly complicated, had a lot of special parts and stuff and was really cumbersome.
[45:26.200 --> 45:31.940]  the whole teardown and the cycling of it, there's been some great reporting on this.
[45:32.040 --> 45:53.280]  I can't remember what piece I read in particular that was so detailed, but there is that aspect to it, that this machine itself was kind of never going to be a workhorse for this ice cream dispensing in the way and with the volume of customers and it just wasn't up to the task,
[45:53.440 --> 45:55.220]  but it was still the machine they use.
[45:55.480 --> 45:58.920]  But so many other places sell ice cream, they don't have this problem.
[45:59.060 --> 46:00.160]  What's with McDonald's?
[46:00.220 --> 46:01.600]  Maybe they shouldn't be doing this.
[46:02.120 --> 46:03.580]  They can't figure out how to run it.
[46:07.240 --> 46:11.400]  My thing is, why not just make it where you can understand to begin with?
[46:11.600 --> 46:18.540]  There's no reason why we can't do this on cars either, so you know what's going on, so you know what to tell a mechanic instead of having a car in there all day.
[46:20.320 --> 46:30.300]  There's no reason why we can't have like clear, concise information on how our computers break down or how our machines break down.
[46:30.740 --> 46:36.560]  That you have to go get like a special that's going to charge you more money than it's worth and take more time than it's worth.
[46:37.920 --> 46:47.580]  I mean, I understand you're going to need a specialist, you're going to need a mechanic or something like that, but you know, it's going to, if you don't know what's going on, it's going to waste more time and more money.
[46:48.640 --> 46:49.980]  Well, I guess that's the point, right?
[46:50.100 --> 46:54.360]  Because if you're charging about an hour, that's more time to get to fix the machines and whatnot.
[46:54.600 --> 47:18.360]  Well, the crux of this story, too, is the person that was selling or wanted to coordinate and get kind of McDonald's blessings was they were just trying to make it better and they, I think, built some sensing and that was the reporting hardware and sold it as a kit to managers of McDonald's that really had all this equipment as part of their franchise license.
[47:18.760 --> 47:27.900]  So they were sort of roped into, just like, you have to get a there you go, yep, just like get a fryer for your french fries and all that, you had to get this machine.
[47:28.100 --> 47:45.820]  And so the inventor was trying to sell this kit that would report the error codes and make it more understandable and the magic key codes and buttons were bypassed in how the kit was figured out.
[47:45.920 --> 47:57.340]  I think I'm paraphrasing the whole story, but then McDonald's basically copied the idea and now the inventor is kind of going after both the ice cream company and McDonald's.
[47:57.420 --> 47:59.740]  It is really fascinating stuff.
[47:59.920 --> 48:06.980]  And I'll just, based on somebody trying to make something work when it just was designed not to be that reliable.
[48:08.760 --> 48:20.840]  Yeah, I just, it's just gotten to the point that if, you know, when a computer posts and it does a certain amount of beefs, it's like, okay, well, the RAM, Sun, Cedar, something like that, right?
[48:21.780 --> 48:24.780]  You know, that's something that's real easy to understand and so forth.
[48:25.560 --> 48:33.120]  But when Windows breaks and it gives me a hex code zero, zero, zero times, zero, zero, zero, eight, F, whatever.
[48:33.320 --> 48:34.000]  Oh, that's a bad one.
[48:35.900 --> 48:37.760]  You gotta, you gotta Google it.
[48:38.440 --> 48:44.920]  I mean, we're at the point where AI can, like, um, diagnose some of these things, right?
[48:45.120 --> 48:59.480]  And everything's got sensors on and whatnot, and I should be able to be able to see, you know, if my computer's not starting up, it's like, well, the video card's out or, or the power spot needs to be replaced, or just anything like that, you know?
[49:00.620 --> 49:02.320]  It should be just plain English.
[49:02.320 --> 49:06.320]  There's no excuse for this cryptic nonsense anymore on this stuff.
[49:06.560 --> 49:18.580]  Yeah, my, my point that really gets me going about this, too, is that we're in an age where a lot of these devices and machines and tools themselves run on computers.
[49:18.800 --> 49:26.140]  So this is exactly when you can set up accounts, and you can set up levels of access and permission.
[49:26.880 --> 49:29.360]  Yeah, like an administrator could be the manager and whatnot.
[49:29.720 --> 49:29.920]  Easily.
[49:30.160 --> 49:37.100]  And I get bothered about this with cars, too, because you get told, oh, it's too complicated, you, you, you know, something might break.
[49:37.260 --> 49:44.280]  Well, why don't you make a version that allows consumers to have an intelligent conversation with the manufacturer of the equipment?
[49:44.540 --> 49:45.440]  Yeah, you do this, Carl.
[49:45.540 --> 49:48.700]  We, you know, we see a check engine light come on.
[49:48.880 --> 49:49.580]  What does that mean?
[49:49.800 --> 49:52.540]  It means take it to the dealer and they'll charge you a lot of money.
[49:52.720 --> 50:04.860]  Or you can use a device like the device you got your hands on to read the code and have it explained to you in that sense so you know what it is that broke that made the check engine light come on.
[50:04.960 --> 50:05.720]  What are those things called?
[50:05.980 --> 50:17.540]  Well, and you can tell what the, the level of seriousness you, you're basically having the vehicle tell you what is going wrong with it.
[50:17.640 --> 50:22.940]  But there are a lot of different vehicle scanners and I found one that I particularly like.
[50:23.100 --> 50:33.240]  I'm, I'm super happy with what's offered for a particular make, but it's not across the board and not all the manufacturers are as helpful.
[50:33.480 --> 50:34.400]  It's called a vehicle scanner.
[50:35.000 --> 50:44.160]  Yeah, there's the, they're like OBD2 scanners and now the vehicle systems are getting to different generations of communication standard.
[50:45.080 --> 50:56.880]  But that is fun because you get to know exactly what the part is and if I'm taking it to a dealer or something and they want to know what the problem is, I'll just paste in the error code because I've already scanned it.
[50:57.000 --> 51:01.880]  They seem kind of miffed that you went in and found out what the problem was before you went to them.
[51:02.380 --> 51:05.780]  Yeah, it is kind of irritating, you know, like kind of in a know-it-all way.
[51:05.940 --> 51:08.480]  But they also know not to rip you off because you know what you're talking about.
[51:08.720 --> 51:13.980]  Right, I know exactly what it is and they still charge me the diagnostic even though I already did the diagnostic myself.
[51:13.980 --> 51:15.700]  Well, you should charge them the diagnostic.
[51:16.400 --> 51:27.280]  I, you know, I don't want to push it, but that's the kind of intelligent conversation you should have, especially if you're a business just trying to run some machinery that customers expect to work.
[51:27.400 --> 51:32.740]  I want to know if you can change things with this scanner, I believe.
[51:33.260 --> 51:35.320]  You can change the country of your car.
[51:35.580 --> 51:42.460]  What I want to know is if you change the country of your car from the United States to Canada, does everything suddenly appear in the metric system?
[51:42.700 --> 51:44.220]  Does any, anybody out there know this?
[51:44.300 --> 51:52.520]  I'd like to, I'd like to find out, you know, as long as you have access to these things, maybe you can make changes and, and things that the dealer says is impossible.
[51:53.200 --> 51:57.020]  Write to us, OTH at 2600.com if you have any, any insight in that.
[51:57.720 --> 52:12.420]  Yeah, we're working with a lot of different kinds of systems like this and we're always curious how people, what people find, especially when people build these things, they build them worldwide, but then they, they take features away for certain markets.
[52:12.620 --> 52:15.880]  And oftentimes you can plug in and adapt different things.
[52:16.140 --> 52:26.380]  So that's the kind of curious mindset, like E's talking about switching countries or switching methods of increments of measurement.
[52:26.380 --> 52:29.780]  What kind of feature would they take away in one place and not another?
[52:30.520 --> 52:40.320]  Well, I mean, you know, maybe there was, usually it's trim packages on vehicles, but maybe it's something that's impractical for a certain environment.
[52:40.620 --> 52:52.000]  Um, you don't need, uh, some kind of cooling or warming function that in one market you'd have or in another you, you wouldn't, or maybe some kind of lighting thing that comes on a better version.
[52:52.220 --> 53:03.760]  Well, the model itself to keep their costs low, it already is built, you know, has the same, um, locations and parts for the, that, that will work with it.
[53:03.860 --> 53:04.960]  It just didn't come with that.
[53:04.960 --> 53:16.120]  So, when you start looking at it a little bit, like, from the manufacturer's perspective, you realize that you can make and change things to your liking.
[53:16.260 --> 53:16.480]  Yeah.
[53:16.580 --> 53:17.300]  And that's the kind of...
[53:17.300 --> 53:21.180]  They tell you you can't, but I want a 24-hour clock instead of a 12-hour clock.
[53:21.340 --> 53:22.940]  I want Celsius instead of Fahrenheit.
[53:23.220 --> 53:25.100]  These things, I know the car can do it.
[53:25.220 --> 53:26.160]  I know it's possible.
[53:26.400 --> 53:28.360]  So, uh, don't tell me it can't be done.
[53:28.600 --> 53:30.940]  And that, that's my point, that people should embrace it.
[53:30.940 --> 53:41.480]  If you're trying to sell people on uniqueness or some customization, again, you've, you've got computers all over, especially vehicles.
[53:41.600 --> 53:45.660]  They're very popular and they're a huge investment for people right now.
[53:45.900 --> 53:51.140]  Um, you can make levels of control and access completely custom.
[53:51.140 --> 54:08.500]  And you should consider, um, if you want to sell this stuff, uh, to people that care about them and, and, and want to have it work for, for their investment, you know, for a while and not just be something they dispose of immediately, um, you know, climate and,
[54:08.520 --> 54:27.460]  and, uh, uh, consumerism, uh, aside, you should empower them to be able to communicate with the equipment and that makes everybody safer, makes, uh, service and, and, uh, parts and stuff, uh, work and get out the door, you know, to the, to the right, uh,
[54:27.560 --> 54:27.860]  fix.
[54:28.200 --> 54:29.000]  Go ahead, Alex.
[54:29.820 --> 54:44.080]  And, and conversely, I'm really curious about if you change the region of your car from, let's say the United Kingdom to the United States, would you then lose the ability to make a collect phone call to your own cell phone?
[54:44.620 --> 54:51.560]  Uh, just about managed to forget about all that, but, uh, yeah, those questions are raised.
[54:52.340 --> 54:53.000]  That's it.
[54:53.220 --> 54:53.360]  Yep.
[54:54.040 --> 54:55.140]  And anything else from our carcaller?
[54:56.600 --> 55:05.200]  Um, well, uh, Trump is going to be, um, a commentator on a boxing match this weekend for pay-per-view.
[55:05.500 --> 55:06.540]  Oh my God.
[55:07.160 --> 55:13.360]  Uh, well, maybe he'll inadvertently go into the ring and we can, we can all watch.
[55:13.540 --> 55:14.780]  Uh, Rob, go ahead.
[55:15.520 --> 55:17.360]  It's not, it's not just any day this weekend.
[55:17.360 --> 55:18.800]  It's on September 11th.
[55:18.980 --> 55:20.240]  Oh my God, you're kidding me.
[55:20.800 --> 55:25.060]  No, and you might think that a former president of this country might have something, uh...
[55:25.060 --> 55:26.520]  I'm sorry, Rob, I couldn't hear you.
[55:26.640 --> 55:26.680]  What?
[55:27.620 --> 55:31.380]  Uh, you might, you might think a former president of this country might have something more Hang on, you both can't talk at the same time.
[55:31.820 --> 55:33.460]  Okay, only Rob talk now.
[55:34.500 --> 55:40.340]  I'm just saying you might think that, you would think that a former president of this country would have something more dignified to do on that particular day.
[55:40.700 --> 55:41.880]  Not in his case, no.
[55:42.040 --> 55:44.320]  But even I'm offended by that, so that's, that tells you.
[55:45.200 --> 55:47.000]  Okay, listen, great hearing from you again.
[55:47.640 --> 55:50.840]  Keep listening, and let us know if you learn anything else.
[55:51.820 --> 55:54.960]  Oh, do you set Photoshop for, like, covers?
[55:55.520 --> 55:56.540]  I'm sorry, do we what?
[55:57.720 --> 55:59.500]  Photoshop for covers for the magazine.
[55:59.800 --> 56:01.080]  Do we use Photoshop?
[56:01.360 --> 56:02.060]  Do we accept...
[56:02.060 --> 56:04.080]  Well, do you set Photoshop covers?
[56:04.640 --> 56:06.980]  Well, we generally have a cover artist.
[56:08.420 --> 56:12.660]  So if you were to do his job, it might result in some issues.
[56:12.660 --> 56:15.600]  But, you know, that shouldn't quell your creativity.
[56:15.600 --> 56:18.060]  If you have something interesting to share with us, share it.
[56:18.140 --> 56:20.880]  And it might not be the front cover, but it could be something, you know?
[56:21.740 --> 56:22.500]  Yeah, okay.
[56:22.520 --> 56:23.400]  I was just curious.
[56:23.580 --> 56:24.980]  I just get bored sometimes.
[56:25.160 --> 56:26.260]  What we really need are articles.
[56:26.500 --> 56:32.640]  So if people out there want to write articles, you know, like this McDonald's ice cream machine, I think that would be a great series of articles.
[56:32.640 --> 56:35.260]  I'd love to have all the particulars and specifics.
[56:36.320 --> 56:37.240]  Okay, I'll try it out.
[56:37.280 --> 56:39.840]  I've got a lot of classes to do with, and I'm starting a job next week.
[56:39.840 --> 56:42.820]  But I'll try to put something together if you'll accept it.
[56:42.940 --> 56:43.500]  Sure, yeah.
[56:43.800 --> 56:45.980]  Spread the word and send something in, please.
[56:46.380 --> 56:47.000]  All right, take care.
[56:47.620 --> 56:48.340]  All right, thanks.
[56:48.460 --> 56:48.620]  Bye.
[56:48.780 --> 56:48.920]  Bye.
[56:50.040 --> 56:51.680]  We can try to take one more phone call.
[56:51.740 --> 56:53.120]  We only have a minute or so left.
[56:54.740 --> 56:55.840]  802-321-4225.
[56:56.740 --> 56:59.780]  But it's going to have to be quick and relatively short.
[57:00.980 --> 57:02.020]  Alex, how are you doing?
[57:02.160 --> 57:03.360]  I keep seeing all this motion.
[57:09.840 --> 57:15.340]  I've been holding my phone and placing it down, but then the vibrations from the sound caused it to fall.
[57:15.520 --> 57:17.540]  I figured that's what that was.
[57:17.700 --> 57:17.940]  Uh-huh.
[57:18.200 --> 57:19.680]  Yeah, that's been happening a lot.
[57:19.840 --> 57:22.420]  Thankfully, I was on mute, I think, every time that that happened.
[57:22.640 --> 57:24.900]  Okay, we have another call, so let's see who's out there.
[57:24.920 --> 57:25.200]  Good evening.
[57:25.340 --> 57:26.320]  You're on Off the Hook Overtime.
[57:27.460 --> 57:27.980]  Hi, guys.
[57:28.280 --> 57:29.600]  This is Tim from Connecticut.
[57:29.880 --> 57:30.340]  Hey, Tim.
[57:30.500 --> 57:30.760]  What's up?
[57:30.760 --> 57:34.500]  I just wanted to pass on a couple of things that you were chatting about earlier.
[57:35.180 --> 57:51.180]  I was working with contracts one fine day where I used to work, and as we were going over the legalities of things about whether the company would be liable, etc., my boss gave me a very, very important sentence that I've just never forgotten.
[57:51.640 --> 57:55.500]  He looked at me right in the eyes, and he said, companies don't go to jail.
[57:55.680 --> 57:56.860]  People go to jail.
[57:57.500 --> 57:57.980]  Yeah.
[57:58.360 --> 57:58.680]  Yeah.
[57:59.520 --> 58:00.220]  That's true.
[58:00.220 --> 58:07.800]  So, as we market this thing to say, well, you know, the corporation did it or whatever, it comes down to who sits in behind the bars.
[58:08.080 --> 58:13.720]  The other thing that I thought you just might like to know, I got my summer issue today.
[58:14.180 --> 58:14.840]  Oh, great.
[58:14.940 --> 58:15.720]  Yeah, it just came out.
[58:16.720 --> 58:22.020]  Yeah, so wherever it launches from, it got to Connecticut today.
[58:22.300 --> 58:22.600]  Wow.
[58:23.020 --> 58:23.960]  That's good to know.
[58:24.120 --> 58:24.500]  Good to know.
[58:24.700 --> 58:25.980]  It's starting to show up everywhere.
[58:27.060 --> 58:27.800]  There you go.
[58:28.120 --> 58:29.200]  That's about all I had.
[58:29.200 --> 58:30.460]  Okay, well, thanks for calling.
[58:31.380 --> 58:31.740]  Sure.
[58:31.960 --> 58:32.700]  Have a good night.
[58:32.900 --> 58:33.080]  All right.
[58:33.140 --> 58:33.460]  Take care.
[58:33.900 --> 58:34.120]  Bye-bye.
[58:35.080 --> 58:36.040]  A lot of calls tonight.
[58:36.680 --> 58:37.780]  Great to hear from people.
[58:37.880 --> 58:38.560]  Yeah, it really is.
[58:38.640 --> 58:39.060]  It really is.
[58:39.680 --> 58:42.980]  But we're going to have to call it quits because we're getting tired and cranky.
[58:44.840 --> 58:48.780]  It's, I guess, the end of another Off the Hook Overtime.
[58:48.780 --> 58:50.420]  We'll be back.
[58:50.920 --> 58:57.820]  But until then, send us your letters at OTH at 2600.com.
[58:58.380 --> 59:00.180]  We'd love to hear what you have to say.
[59:00.180 --> 59:09.840]  If you heard about something that got hacked or if you've hacked something, or maybe you're thinking about hacking some things, tell us all about it.
[59:10.340 --> 59:10.500]  Yeah.
[59:11.080 --> 59:12.480]  Rob, you've got something to say.
[59:13.180 --> 59:16.580]  Just that it's Star Trek Day, so live long and prosper.
[59:16.580 --> 59:17.720]  Is it Star Trek Day?
[59:17.840 --> 59:19.540]  I mean, a lot of references to Star Trek tonight.
[59:19.540 --> 59:20.520]  I did not know that.
[59:20.820 --> 59:22.680]  It's the 55th anniversary of the premiere.
[59:23.100 --> 59:23.340]  Wow.
[59:23.920 --> 59:25.780]  I apologize to the person calling in.
[59:25.900 --> 59:30.120]  We're not going to take that call because we're tired and we're done for the night.
[59:30.780 --> 59:33.420]  But please call us next week or write to us.
[59:34.820 --> 59:36.480]  And don't make that symbol, Rob.
[59:36.860 --> 59:38.260]  It's making the Vulcan symbol.
[59:40.040 --> 59:41.360]  We're not that nerdy, are we?
[59:41.520 --> 59:42.080]  I guess we are.
[59:43.400 --> 59:45.580]  Alex, I know you wanted to leave early, but...
[59:46.580 --> 59:47.800]  You stayed for the whole time.
[59:48.540 --> 59:51.240]  You guys, you know, dragged me back in here.
[59:51.620 --> 59:53.020]  It was an engaging show.
[59:53.020 --> 59:54.540]  I love the phone calls.
[59:54.740 --> 01:00:01.460]  And, you know, one suggestion, I think, is that we should play with the phones more often on off-the-hook overtime.
[01:00:01.680 --> 01:00:05.120]  Well, it's hard when you only have one phone line and it's for incoming calls.
[01:00:05.120 --> 01:00:07.100]  But you solved that problem tonight with your cell phone.
[01:00:07.720 --> 01:00:08.720]  Yeah, that's right.
[01:00:08.800 --> 01:00:11.020]  Well, I had an additional line next to my cell phone.
[01:00:11.020 --> 01:00:14.720]  So, our capabilities keep expanding.
[01:00:15.100 --> 01:00:16.940]  To where they were in the 1990s.
[01:00:17.020 --> 01:00:20.000]  But yes, it's good to play with the technology.
[01:00:20.300 --> 01:00:21.780]  I didn't know you could still make collect calls.
[01:00:21.960 --> 01:00:22.160]  Wow.
[01:00:22.640 --> 01:00:24.940]  Even though that one didn't work.
[01:00:25.040 --> 01:00:25.460]  But whatever.
[01:00:25.560 --> 01:00:26.760]  It was still fun.
[01:00:26.800 --> 01:00:28.720]  Probably not for the operator in Southeast Asia.
[01:00:28.880 --> 01:00:32.200]  But it was something that we'll remember.
[01:00:32.680 --> 01:00:32.820]  Yeah.
[01:00:33.460 --> 01:00:34.340]  Learning experience.
[01:00:34.640 --> 01:00:35.080]  All right, guys.
[01:00:35.300 --> 01:00:36.060]  Good seeing you all.
[01:00:36.300 --> 01:00:37.740]  And until next week.