PHONE RINGS
Hello, you're listening to WBAI in New York.
It's 6.59, soon to be 7 o'clock, and that means it's time for another edition of Off
The Hook.
It's 6.59, soon to be 7 o'clock, and that means it's time for another edition of Off The Hook
Alex, you've been through this at least once, that you know of. Fun times, huh?
Yeah, I mean, I think I was positive back in March of 2020, and then again in March of 2022
Two years spent, triple-vaxxed, and it wasn't pleasant, but I have to say, I was able to continue to function in my everyday life
I was continuing to go to work, and work 10-plus hour days every day. Actually, I think the entire week I was working 12-plus hour days
And when I came home, I thought I was just exhausted from work, but it turned out that I had asymptomatic COVID as well
I think that's where I'm at. Yeah, it's just like, on top of work and other things in your life, now this
It's just like a slap in the face
Well, I've been logging my progress through the various days, and I thought today I was pretty much past it
I woke up feeling somewhat good, but after a few hours, you get drained, and you lose energy
And that's kind of why I sound the way I sound now
It's definitely something you don't want to have. You want to try to avoid this
It annoys me so much to see people not taking it seriously still, with almost a million people dead
For people to basically be fixated on whether or not we should be wearing masks on airplanes and things like that
Alex, maybe you can explain this to me, this crazy legal system of ours
Where a Trump-appointed judge in Florida, who has been rated by the American Bar Association as unqualified
She gets to override the Centers for Disease Control on the issue of diseases
I mean, she's not qualified to be a justice, let alone a spokesperson for anything having to do with science
How is this possible? How does it land in this person's control?
Who gets that decision? Who gets to decide?
This is the judge that's going to decide for everybody in the country how they're going to live their lives
Well, the plaintiffs in that case certainly lucked out when they rolled the dice and drew that judge
As it was reported during her confirmation process, and recently too in a lot of the news articles
I think she was 33 years old when Trump appointed her to the federal bench, which was two years ago
And I also believe that she had never been lead trial counsel on any trial, which is what federal district court judges do
So putting that aside for the moment, it's really a lottery
Anytime you file a civil case or there's a criminal case in any federal court, it's a lottery to draw the judge
You don't get to pick and choose
Let me just ask you about that then. How does lottery work exactly?
Is it rolling a dice? Is it some kind of a pick four number or something? How does it work?
Well, all the judges gather in a room
All the judges?
Wait, all the judges from where?
From the whole court. They all gather in one room and they play rock, paper, scissors, or they draw short straws
See, I'm in a state now where I don't know if you're kidding. Okay, so don't take advantage of me
Yeah, no, I think it differs from court to court
But I think in some courts it might actually be some kind of lottery or ball system that has a judge's name on it
But this was already in Florida. So right away you have a disadvantage. How did it wind up in Florida?
Well, that's probably where the plaintiffs filed the case
Because they were an aggrieved party. I'm sure the plaintiff resides in Florida and they're the aggrieved party
So they chose the venue. They were probably claiming some kind of interest because of the CDC overstepping its boundaries
So if you're somebody who disagrees with policy
All you have to do is make sure you go to the most backward state possible with the most conservative views imaginable
And file your lawsuit there and odds are you'll get a judge that's more aligned with your views than somebody up in Yankee country
Well, yeah, I mean that's called forum shopping and plaintiffs do that all the time
I mean, and for good reasons and for bad reasons, right?
I mean, this is why, and I think it's the Western District of Texas
That court has the most patent filings of any court in the country
And it's been that way for a good number of years because of the types of jury verdicts and the familiarity that the judges have
In that district in Texas
The Third Circuit and the federal district courts underneath the Third Circuit in Pennsylvania
Also used to be really popular venues for the ACLU to challenge certain provisions and things that they believe are unconstitutional
The Ninth Circuit is a place that's very popular for constitutional challenges as well from, you know, liberal plaintiffs
So, you know, forum shopping happens all the time
Doesn't shock me at all that the plaintiffs here went forum shopping in none other than Florida
It just seems like it's stacked on their side
You're going to get a judge that agrees with you
How do you counter that?
Other than the CDC appealing or the Department of Justice appealing, which takes time
And meanwhile, people are getting sick
And I should also point out, I looked at some polls on the subject
In my state of mind, I was still able to do this
And I was surprised because, you know, looking at the reaction as it's being broadcast in the mass media
I feel like the outsider, I feel like somebody who is, you know, being mocked and ridiculed for wanting to stay safe a little longer
Until we actually conquer the disease, which we haven't entirely done by anybody's interpretation
And instead, it turns out 24% of people polled support not having masks on airplanes and trains
24%, that's it
More than 50%, I think close to 60% of people support it
That's a pretty strong division
Sorry, I'm struggling for words
It's a pretty big difference between those who support it and those who do not support it
So it's kind of mind-boggling
But then in my state, everything is mind-boggling
Yeah, you know, I can tell you're really feeling the effect of this
Because you are certainly one who's never at a loss for words, Emmanuel, I have to say
You know, speaking of words, the word garrulous comes to mind, too
In the best way possible, I mean
Thank you
To go back to your question about, you know, how do you avoid bias in form shopping
Well, it's all baked into Article 3 of the Constitution
And the way in which the federal judiciary was designed
In particular, these federal judges, even though they're appointed by certain presidents who have a political persuasion
They're appointed for life
And they are supposed to be apolitical for life
And the fact that this is a lifetime appointment insulates them from the political process once they're confirmed as judges
So in theory, you should be able to have an impartial judge who is appointed for life
Without fear of any political repercussions or consequences
Should they find for the plaintiff or the defendant in a politically unpopular manner
But it's not always the case
I mean, every judge brings their history and their baggage to every courtroom
I think that they try their best, most of them, I will say
To decide cases impartially
And I have a great respect for the federal judiciary
I will say, though, with respect to this judge
If I were practicing law for 8 years, 8 years into my career practicing law
I had no idea what I was doing
And most lawyers who are 8 years in really don't have a clue about the practice of law at that stage in your career
You are still very, very new
And I'm 17 years in practicing now
I still feel very much like a young attorney who's learning the ropes in a lot of ways
And maybe that's just my attitude towards things
That's why I love the practice of law because you're constantly learning
You're never really mastering something
There's always something new and it's such a huge body of knowledge to master
But 8 years in, you're still really, really green
And this is a massive decision that affects the entire country
It overrules a critical governmental agency
At a time when we're still undergoing a global health crisis
And ordinarily there is something called Chevron deference
I'm not sure if that was part of the briefing in this case
But the doctrine of Chevron deference generally says
That courts should defer to the area of expertise for a particular agency
When deciding whether or not they have done something appropriate
I think that the judge in this case
I keep saying the judge
Her name is Catherine Kimball Mizell
And it's from the middle district of Florida
Federal District Court, the middle district of Florida
But I think she might have sidestepped the issue of Chevron deference in this case
By focusing on whether or not the CDC had exceeded its actual legal authority
I think the latest, the Times is reporting that this is possibly going to be appealed by the DOJ
In some avenue or another
But it strikes me that this is still in those areas
Specifically transport, public transport
Much in the way that the MTA is kind of drawing their
Making their own delineations on what works for their system
And what is appropriate in their city and in their area
And the domain, the confines of the properties that they maintain
So to that end, it seems like it's still something we're sorting out collectively, right?
I'm glad the MTA has some sense
And is saying, no, you're going to continue to wear masks on our trains and buses
On Long Island, MacArthur Airport, right away dropped the mask requirement
Today they reversed it, they put it back
I'm seeing a lot of that, I'm seeing a lot of
Wait a minute, this is stupid
This is not necessarily a good idea
Yeah, it's like one thing in the air
In a vehicle, an aircraft that is circulating and filtering
And doing all those kinds of stuff
But standing in line, crowding around security checkpoints
Or ticketing agents
And you're in proximity with people that are dealing with the public
And staying there at the airport
Maybe that's a logical place to keep your distance
Or have a little extra precaution
So yeah, I don't know
We're still figuring out what works
And thinking it through
I'd rather err on the side of caution
I always would rather do that
I would wear a mask for another year
If I could have gotten it last week back
Not dealing with being sicker than I've been this whole century
I've thought about what I think
And this is a mild case
You're new to this, Kyle
What I've had for the last week
Has been relatively mild
Certainly compared to what many other people have gone through
It doesn't even compare
But it's still miserable
It's still something that
A slight inconvenience
Like putting something over your face when you're around other people
That is so worth it
I agree, I agree
I would sacrifice a little bit more
I've thought about what I did
I know what I did
What'd you do?
I don't know
I was a little bit more cavalier
Like everyone else probably
I don't think we did anything
Not explicitly
We went about our lives and were careful
But I think
Things like this
Where people now are on airplanes without masks
And spreading diseases all over the place now
Because we still have it in the air
It makes the likelihood you bump into it more
Then your chances of living your life on the ground
Increase because of that irresponsibility
I'm sorry, Alex, go ahead
Yeah, I wanted to chime in
This is a particularly galling decision for me too
Because over the next week and a half
I'm going to be on four flights
And one train
That's a lot of flights to be on
And all of a sudden
I know that all of these flights are going to be filled
With maskless people
It's a little jarring
Having also recently been on a couple of flights
Going back and forth to South Carolina
A couple of weeks ago
It still is
I just don't like flying with a mask
I can understand the reluctance there
You get into the airport
And you've got this mask on
Literally until you get out of the airport
On the other side
It's an inconvenience
It's uncomfortable
But I certainly feel a lot safer
In this flying aluminum can
With completely recycled air
And I know a lot of people say that the air
Is super filtrated
And possibly even cleaner than the air
That you would ordinarily breathe on the streets
In the cities of New York
To me, psychologically
When you're that close to people
And on a packed flight to wherever you're going
It just seems like a mask would certainly be a good idea
To have in place for a little while longer
We've done it for two years
Yeah, exactly
A little while longer
Things have improved
Absolutely
We're not getting sicker than we are
It's frustrating to have to battle
These common sense things
Over and over again
Yeah, I don't know
It's true, I think
Maybe it would have been more severe
Or something
But I definitely feel like
You know
I'm taking note
And of course allergy season is here
For allergy sufferers
It's all happening
So yeah, get through it everybody
A couple of programming notes
Because of the fact that Rob and Gila are not here this week
And we're sick
We're not doing overtime tonight folks
There's a limit
There's so much that we have to catch up on
And I don't even know if we can do that
And we're not on next week
So hopefully this is all a recovery period
And we'll be back
In better shape in two weeks
But let me move on to
A better judge
And by the way Alex
I know you respect the federal system
I don't respect the system
Because one person making that decision
That's flawed, I'm sorry
If that person is wrong
Then we all have to live with one person's mistake
There should be checks and balances
There's no checks and balances here
It's just simply one person wins that lottery
They get to decide on behalf of the entire country
And we're supposed to accept that
I'm sorry, I can't do that
Well look, that's all
A good reason for the Biden administration
To appeal this decision
I think the decision right now
As it stands, coming from a federal judge
Is essentially the law of the land
It has to be applied across the land
And so if this decision
Stands and is not appealed
It will certainly be
Cited over and over and over again
For pretty bad precedent
With respect to the authority of the CDC
And while you were talking
I did in fact look up
Whether this concept of chevron deference
That comes into play
Was referenced in the case
And it turns out there was a really important
Distinction that the judge made
The judge here, Mazzel
Had stated in her decision
I believe that
This concept of chevron deference
Or deferring to the expertise
Of a particular federal agency
Only applies when the
Devices of judicial construction
Have been tried and found to yield
No clear sense of
Congressional intent
Which to me is really kind of
Fascinating in a lot of ways as well
Because instead of deferring to the government
Or an agency in its area of expertise
This judge
Is essentially
Saying that it's up to the judges
To use these canons
Of judicial construction
To figure out what the law is
Or what the limits of the authority are
Not
Deference to the agency
And that seems to me to fly in the face
Of the type of
Judicial activism that
Conservatives are constantly rallying about
Coming from the federal judiciary
That they shouldn't mingle into politics
That they shouldn't venture out into
Politically dangerous waters
That they should just decide these cases and controversies
And that's it
Well I'd like to see that criticism
Applied equally to this decision
All right
Moving on to another judge
This judge is in Brazil
And they ruled that
Apple must pay a man over
$1,000
Because they did not include an iPhone charger
In the box when he bought an iPhone
Yeah
See back in 2020 Apple made headlines
For making a bold move
By giving people less
And charging them more and people love it
They stopped including chargers
With their new iPhones
Company Logic
Bear with me for a second while we get into
Apple Logic here
They stopped the practice because
It would be better for the environment
Because everybody already owns a charger
Yeah so why give them another charger
In fact why even tell them
But
Rumors continue to circulate
That this move saved
Apple literally billions of dollars
Maybe that was the real reason
Other companies including Samsung
Have followed suit
But Brazil is not very happy about this
At all
The country previously fined Apple $2 million
Over the change and now
The Cupertino
California company
Must pay one specific man
$5,000 Brazilian Real
That's
$1,082 US dollars
The news
Comes thanks to a judge ruling
In favor of the man's lawsuit
Against Apple
The judge said the following
According to article 39 of the consumer code
Which they call CDC
Tie sale is an abusive
And prohibitive practice in Brazil
So it is not allowed to sell
Cell phone and charger separately
Therefore Apple is being
Sentenced
Therefore Apple is being sentenced
After selling an iPhone model
And charger separately to a consumer
In the city of Goiânia
According to
The result issued by judge
Vanderlei Kers-Pinhiro
Of the 6th
Civil Court of Goiânia
Apple must compensate
The consumer
$5,000 Real for
Carrying out the tie sale
Of the company's devices
Tie sale refers to the practice of forcing
A consumer to buy two products in order to make
One of them fully work
In this case the judge considers the necessity
Of buying a charger after buying a new iPhone
To be a tie sale
Of course Apple argued that most people have chargers already
But that didn't sway the judge
I like this judge, why can't we get that judge?
So the big question looming
Over this case is how it could change
Smartphone launches in Brazil
Going forward
Basically
Brazil is the exception
I think
I think various companies
iPhone
Samsung includes chargers
With its phones
When sold in Brazil
But not in other countries
So if you want to buy a new
Samsung phone
Going to Brazil, buying it there and coming back
Will ensure that you get a charger
And that's really the only way
And that's the crazy world we live in
In some cases
They're bringing into
Their new model
A new type
Or a new style of charger
So you may not necessarily
Have that type
I'm referring specifically to something like
USB-C chargers
When those first came out
A lot of people have micro USB
And other types of connectors
But
Maybe that's not the best example
There's other examples of that
There's other things too
You don't get manuals anymore when you buy things?
No, it's all online
It assumes you have internet connections
And that you know exactly what to look up
I like having manuals
I like being able to thumb through it at my leisure
But the excuse that it's eco-friendly
Is like
It's true, but it's sort of a half-truth
Yeah
And okay, you're saving billions of dollars
Why don't you pump that into the environment?
Yeah
Convince me that you're building a better phone
Because of all the money
You're reinvesting all that into the design
And electrical engineering
Any thoughts on that?
Brazilian judges, Alex?
Yeah
They seem to really balance the equities
Quite well, I think
I'm certainly no expert on
Brazilian law
But I can
Empathize with the judges' reasoning there
Sounds like they have
Established precedent
That this practice has been
Adjudicated in Brazil thoroughly
And they have a
Way of identifying
And
Holding people to that
Because they have a criteria
That says this is what that practice is
And we don't do that here
Well, it's an interesting point, too, Kyle
Because having been in compliance
As well, I was the chief compliance officer
Of a very big luxury company
But oftentimes what
Big companies will do that have a global presence
Is when it comes to
Complying with local laws or
Local regulations
You need to figure out and take a global view
Of what's out there
And then you design your programs
And your products to comply with
The strictest standard with which
You are expected to comply
And if global
Companies are doing that, this is a manner in which
The local laws of a country
Something like Brazil that seemed to be
Rather consumer-friendly
Can actually have a knock-on effect around the whole globe
Because it becomes really
Difficult for Apple to have one type of
Packaging that would only go to Brazil
And if the other
Packages don't go to Brazil
But go to someplace else, then it creates this problem
So what they might do
In the future is design their products
To comply with Brazilian law
And we might all get chargers again
Yeah, I think a particularly good example of this
Was the California
Cafe emission standards
Because those specifically
Really influence heavily
The national standard
In other words, manufacturers
Were not going, assuming they weren't
Cheating, but that's a whole
Different story, they were not going to
Design an emissions
System that worked in California
And then design emission systems for
Elsewhere, they would adhere to the
Most strict standard
And in effect, California
Was able to influence national
Emission standards as a result, which were overall
Good for urban air quality
Etc, etc
But your point is
A pretty good one as well
That
Yeah, this sort of strategic management
Angle
Mixed with a little
Greenwashing
Can
End up hurting the consumer
Yeah, I mean
In this case, it seems more
That they calculated
They could make
Sales-wise, enough to just
Satisfy that market and
The savings, as E referred
To it, the billions of dollars
It was just too enticing
To not
Make something just for Brazil
To get around it or bypass
It and then serve up
Everybody else something
That really amounts to a better
Bottom line for the shareholders
Of course, I assume they lowered the price
When they didn't include the charger with everybody's phone
The phones got cheaper, right?
I don't think so, that's what I'm saying
How is that possible?
Somebody must have made a mistake
It eliminates
Overhead and yeah
It ends up
Making it a better margin
On that product
We have an email address
To write to us here at the radio station
Or the show that's on the radio station
Off the hook, oth at 2600.com
And we got some emails
That I'm going to read here
We were accused of being
Too anti-Putin
Remember, people were saying
They're not going to listen to us anymore because we're too anti-Putin
I don't think you can be anti-Putin enough
But that's just me
But we got this letter
I will continue to listen to Off the Hook
Exactly because you are anti-Putin
Thank you
Your programs help me to live in this country
Which is a colony of Russia
Signed Victor in Belarus
Wow
Victor in Belarus
That is
That letter made my day
That is incredible
That we have listeners in Belarus
We've been there
It's a fascinating place
It's a sad place because there's so much potential
There's so many good people there
What a horrible government
What a horrible regime
But maybe steps are being taken
Throughout all this craziness
That's happening right now
All this horror
That will finally
Remove that particular regime
Change it
I sure hope so
They don't deserve to get dragged into this
Absolutely not
The people there are amazing
They deserve to be happy and prosperous
They deserve to have a dictator's thumb
Yes Alex
Jumping in there too
All of this
Gets back this idea
Bringing it back full circle
To the hacker issues here
Which are
The ability to
Acquire information
And to acquire the truth
Access the truth
Within Russia these days
It's absolutely horrifying
And Putin's grip on
Dissidents and his grip on
The media is ever strengthening
Every day
And
Because they're so cut off
And because of the centralized nature
Of where we get our information
It's able
You're able to shut off
An entire country's access to something like
Facebook, Twitter, CNN
Various websites
And it also
Is
Becoming more and more apparent
From the news that I'm reading
That people in Russia
Appear to be more behind the war
Or the specialized military
Operation than they were before
And that could in large part
Be because of the manner in which
Putin has been
Addressing things like sanctions
And we have these massive sanctions
That nearly a third of the world
Has imposed on Russia
And these sanctions are designed to
Hurt the oligarchs and designed to hurt
The treasury of Russia
But they also
Certainly hit ordinary people in the pocketbook
And because of that
Putin has been able to
Essentially
Espouse throughout all of
The Russian state media
And all of the media that's controlled by Russia
Which is just about everything
Now
That this is a concerted effort
By the West to target Russians
And to hurt the ordinary Russian people
And this
Because these sanctions are so harsh
This lends credence to the idea that it is
Essentially Russia against the world here
And they fight for their survival
So they've been able to harness
The things that we are doing to try to hurt Russia
Without using military force
To justify that military force
Because they have such drastic control
Over information
Truth in the media in Russia
And as this continues to
Dissipate
And dwindle
And as
Russia's fate becomes
Worse and worse and there's more casualties
And the military looks
Continuously like they're bungling
Things
And in fact losing
That then increases
The need for Putin
To maintain this stranglehold
Over the media
So the degree to which Russians
Are doing poorly in the war
Is disproportionate
To the amount of access
And truth that is going to be available
In Russia or you could say
It's directly proportional to
How badly
Putin needs to control information
And control the media in Russia
In order to maintain power
And to maintain
His own
Stranglehold over the Russian population
We've mentioned this before
But there is a
YouTube channel
I don't know if it's the channel name
But if you type 1420
The number is 1420 into YouTube
You'll see a bunch of videos
That
People are making in Russia
Just asking people on the street
Various questions
I'll read you a couple
Who hates Russia
Are you brainwashed?
Russians name a country
They don't like
How the special operation
Which is what they refer to the war as
Changed our life
Things like that
You get to see people
Pretty much unscripted
And you also get to see
What Russian people are like
How very different they are
From each other in many ways
It's only one avenue
There needs to be so many more
There needs to be so many other ways
To get to the mainstream
To get to people
To have media outlets
So much is forbidden
You can't even say it's a war over there
You can get in trouble for saying
It's a war or an invasion
And yeah, Alex, what you're saying
About how they have been
Losing in many ways
I'm worried about
What's happening in the East right now
Which is basically just obliterating cities
And taking
Civilians hostage
And bringing them into Russia
These are all
Well documented
These are all verifiable
People going missing
And all kinds of reports
That are being heard
From multiple sources
That is where it gets really, really scary
Because Russia shows
They don't really care
What the rest of the world thinks
They're just going to keep bulldozing
And blasting and killing
Until
They decide they're done
And
You know, for all the
All the boycotts
And embargoes
And things like that
Doesn't seem to be enough, not yet
So we have to keep thinking of other ways
You know, to stop this
Yeah, I felt that
This week particularly
Just this profound sense that
We're failing
The Ukrainian people
In their efforts, and I know there's a lot
That is being done
And people may even be
Tired, oh gosh
Of talking about it
Or
Sharing information about it
But
We really
There's more that is being done
But I don't want to sit with this coy sense
That, yeah, it's all happening
But we're
Just not talking about it because
It's a wartime
And we have to be quiet about it
There's still Americans that are
Being held in Russia
There's all kinds of aspects
Of this that are
That are ongoing
And I just find
That
We should not sit back and wait
For a reaction, we should continue to
Just look at Mariupol, just look at pictures
Of that city now
Just look it up anywhere
I mean, how is that
A goal for any
Any regime to do that
And you realize the same thing
Has happened in Syria
And in many places
It's barbaric
And it's horrible
I don't have the answer
My answer is not to
Go to war with Russia, that's insane
But there has to be
Some other option
That will put an end to the madness
At the very least
Continuing to talk about it
Even on shows about technology
Like this one is
That's a way of getting
The word out to other people
And maybe thinking of things
On a technological level
But there's no place
Where this should be avoided
At all
We'll continue to follow this
Of course all the
The kinds of important leaks
The
Humanitarian logistics
The cooperation
Just the listening
The world's really listening to
A country that
Really is asking for quite a lot
But sacrificing a lot in the process
So it's a fascinating
Effort
That we are
Ostensibly a part of
Indirectly everyone
In the western world
Think about how this turns out though
If nothing
Can be done to save Ukraine
Despite all
The world reaction
What does that do to the world
In the future, what does that do to anybody
Standing up for justice
And conversely if
This does result
In this kind of thing
Being harshly rebuked
And steps taken to
Ensure it doesn't happen again
That might be a
Shot in the arm that people need
You know that their voices meant
Something
Yeah to me this is like
A direct result of
The arms
Races that we've
Partaken
These are the consequences
Because we're now so afraid
To do anything more
Or even appear to be doing anything
More than the bare minimum
For a place
Like Ukraine
And that
Makes it really fraught
Because there's this sense
That we all have to have
Extraordinary weaponry to protect ourselves
But it's all there
As a threat
And
And in the same breath
It can be you know that double-edged sword
Comes back around and it can be used
As a threat a threat to
Anyone who would intervene
In a horror like this
Go ahead Alex
Yeah I think
I think you're right Kyle
With respect to the nuclear issues here
And I want to bring it back to what we were talking
About earlier tonight too with respect to
The CDC and the mask mandate
The need to combat
Dangerous precedents and I think that
What Russia has
Done to the world here is an extraordinarily
Dangerous precedent if we do
Not push back and if we do not fight back
On it because they are essentially blackmailing
And holding the entire
Planet hostage with their
Arsenal of nuclear weapons by saber
Rattling with nuclear weapons
They are preventing anybody
From crossing over the
Line and providing some kind of active
Measure of support to Ukraine
And this was something that Russia said very
Clearly and very
Threateningly at the outset
Of their invasion into Ukraine
And if we are going
To countenance being held hostage
By Putin because of his
Nuclear arsenal then
What would change
About this
Yeah I agree Alex
He froze Alex
You didn't freeze yourself you were making a good point there
It's gotta be
It's gotta be silent
It's gotta be quiet it's gotta be like
Boring business as usual
Then no one is the wiser
That people are really helping
But that's what I meant by that coy cavalier
Or coy attitude of
Like oh yeah stuff's happening
We just we can't talk about it well
You need to really be
Outwardly supportive too and I just feel like
Things have
Treated this as like okay we're gonna
Put this on back burner while it's
Escalating getting worse and worse for people
And that's scary that
You know we go on with our little game shows
And
Sports events or whatever
And just forget about this
And that's that feeling I just
Can't help but feel like
We're just we're failing and
Even though we say we're
Doing all this stuff can we get him back
Doesn't Skype
Just reconnect at some point
Would be nice
Nice little noises it makes
Yeah it's all these puddle drop sounds
Ah for god's sake
I think he's there but I think
Basically he froze
No we know that but this is ridiculous
Well I thought it was for emphasis
You know I thought he was like making a point
This is a
Louder sound is that him calling us
Alex there you are
Welcome back
You know what a time
For your internet to just
Poop out right
I forgot what was I
Saying was I saying anything important
Yeah
You were talking about blackmail about being held
Hostage about you know
If they do this you know
You're making a comparison
That you never made
If we allow Russia
To hold us hostage because of its nuclear arsenal
With regard to its invasion of Ukraine
Then what's going to change
Factually if after Ukraine
Putin then decides to roll
Into Moldova or roll into Romania
Or roll into Poland
And just keep rolling across Europe
And saber rattling with his nuclear arsenal
Well Moldova is not part of NATO or the EU
Whereas Romania and Poland
Are both EU and NATO
So that's a big difference right there
But good point because
Okay let's say he does
I'm going to roll into Romania now
Doesn't seem likely but certainly possible
Does the rule change then
Okay you're going to threaten us with nuclear weapons
But you're invading a NATO country
So that means we are going to stand up to you
The threat is still the same
So I see your point
The threat is still the same
It absolutely is
It almost seems like the threat of
Imminent nuclear war might even be worse
If you roll into a NATO nation
Than another nation
But the other side of it too
And I promised two points if I recall correctly
At the outset of my monologue here
And the other flip side of this
Is that it makes the acquisition
Of nuclear weapons
That much more attractive
For nations that probably shouldn't have nuclear weapons
In the first place
Countries like North Korea, Iran
Maybe the Central African Republic
Wants to have a nuclear arsenal next
Because it sees how much power
Russia has and it can have
And wield that same power on its neighbors
With just a couple of nuclear warheads
We have another letter from Charlie
Who says
I get the Cuba question
On the re-entry paperwork coming back to the USA
We were talking about going to North Korea
Last week
Talking about Virgil's case
And Charlie says
They basically ask something like
What countries have you been to since you left the country
I think it's a crime to lie
On this form
And Charlie you're right, it is a crime to lie on that form
But again
The point was that you can go to North Korea
And there is no actual
Record of it because
North Korea authorities certainly don't tell the State Department
And they don't
Stamp your passport
So yes, you're lying
But you get away with it unless you get caught
That's my point
I'm not advising people to do that
I'm just saying it is possible to go there
And lie about it
And get away with it
Yeah and lying
On the document
Would be putting down a country
That you didn't go to
Or that you
Did travel to
And didn't have permission to
But it's on the paper
But just not putting it down
But the thing is
In the United States we're used to
Having permission to go to other countries
That's what I have a problem with
So
I wouldn't lie on the form
But I also
Wouldn't take much
Stock in somebody saying
You're not allowed to visit this country
Because I told you not to
That's not how I view
What this country is supposed to be
Yeah I think specifically
For traveling for pleasure
And your own edification
And
Experiencing the world
Something as a
Something you enjoy doing
Like a vocation of
Of joy
That shouldn't be disrupted
Your
Curiosity
And desire to go and see
Far flung places
I've left out countries though on that form
Because I've run out of space
Because they only give you I think two lines
Or as many as possible
But if you're going through a bunch of countries in Europe
Or they're small countries
You could easily fill those two lines
Very quickly
And then what?
Are you guilty of a crime because you didn't include everything?
And they don't really care that much
Yeah it's got to be the greatest hits
The greatest hits that you know they want to see
This was all sparked by
A discussion of our friend Virgil
Who was sentenced to five years in prison
Last week
He was in North Korea
And supposedly helping them
Try and figure out how to bypass sanctions
Alex any update on Virgil's condition
Or
Potential for him being transferred to some place
A bit more humane
Well I will say this
That I won't divulge the contents
Of what I spoke to Virgil about
But I did speak with Virgil earlier this week
And he
Wanted me to send his love and support
To everybody that's been there for him
And that has been following his case
And I think it does make a
Great difference to him to know that
There are so many that care about him
Out there
That are part of the community
An update
He's still over in Brooklyn
It seems like it'll probably be
A couple of weeks until he is
Hopefully moved over to Pennsylvania
But I will say
Despite it all
He was in decent spirits
And wanted me to relay that message
Okay
Well thanks for that
Good to hear that he's doing
As well as he could do
In such horrible situations
Um
Yeah
I ran out of things to say
I'm still struggling with
With
Finding words and things like that
In the middle of COVID
Conjugation and syntax
Yeah no I feel the same way
A little middle of the week
Fog
This room feels hot and I'm achy
And it's just
It's too much
Being in isolation for five days
I gotta tell you that messes with your head
You know talking about what Virgil has gone through
I can't even imagine the strength
That he has shown to get through
The horror
Of truly being confined
I was confined in my own house
And it drove me crazy
After a few days
The time where I was
Jailed at the RNC in 2004
That was only
2-3 days
It still messed with my head for years to come
Go ahead Alex
And he's been through
A hell of a lot just in terms of
Contracting COVID himself
And then the facility being on such
Rigid and strict guidelines
For the lockdown
Absolutely crazy
One thing that we could transition to
While we're on the subject of Russian rogue
Regimes is that there was this
Recently discovered set of malicious
Tools and malware
That is believed to have come from some kind
Of state sponsored actor
That allows that actor to target
Critical infrastructure
And could very well allow
That threat actor to target critical infrastructure
In the United States
The identification of this malware
During the invasion of Ukraine
And the Ukraine crisis makes it
Really look a lot like
The malware which is known as Pipe Dream
Originates from Russia
But there's been a massive
Advisory from the federal government
That comes from Department of Energy
From CISA which is Cyber Security
And Infrastructure Security Agency
The National Security Agency, FBI
That there is this APT
Or Advanced Persistent Threat out there
That has exhibited
An advanced capability
To gain system access to industrial
Control systems of energy companies
And liquefied natural gas
Companies in particular
And a lot of this is
Targeting something called Schneider
Electric devices
Some of the capabilities of this
Malware include the ability
To send custom Modbus
Commands over
To these individual devices
Crashing these devices
So there is I think
A very real danger out there facing
Our energy infrastructure right now
And hopefully
Many of those companies
And I know they are working very hard
To remediate and patch this
But as things ratchet up in Russia
This is a very real concern for us
All right, we're going to have to leave it there
Because we are out of time
Amazing how the hour flew by
Secure your industrial controls
Yeah, you learn that in grade one
We are not doing overtime tonight
We can't do it
It's just not physically possible
But we'll be back in two weeks
With Off the Hook at 7
Off the Hook Overtime at 8 on YouTube
You can write to us
OTH at 2600.com
Hopefully by then Kyle and I will be over the COVID
And on to better things
In the meantime
Please keep your eyes open
Keep fighting for justice
It matters
It really matters
Your opinion matters
And what we do as individuals
And as a collective
Matters so much
Hey hey, rise up
Good night
Red carpet
Fluttered
Our
Great Ukraine
Blossomed
And we
This red carpet
We'll raise
And we
Our glorious Ukraine
Hey hey
We'll raise
And we
Our glorious Ukraine
Hey hey
We'll raise
Hey hey
We'll raise
And we
Our glorious Ukraine
We'll raise
And we
Our glorious Ukraine
Hey hey
Great
Our glorious Ukraine
Let's celebrate!