[00:00.000 --> 00:02.560]  ...and WBAI.org online.
[00:02.860 --> 00:03.460]  Stay tuned.
[00:17.630 --> 00:24.530]  Due to telephone company facility trouble in the area you are calling, your call cannot be completed at this time.
[00:24.770 --> 00:26.090]  Please try your call later.
[00:27.090 --> 00:27.750]  078P.
[00:28.270 --> 00:30.910]  Thank you for listening to Off The Hook.
[00:36.100 --> 00:40.600]  The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[00:41.560 --> 00:43.560]  I cut myself while shaving.
[00:44.040 --> 00:46.160]  Now I can't make a call.
[00:46.920 --> 00:48.880]  We couldn't get much worse.
[00:49.560 --> 00:51.460]  But if they could, they would.
[00:51.720 --> 00:54.360]  From Billy Bon for the best, expect the worst.
[00:54.980 --> 00:56.880]  I hope that's understood.
[00:57.200 --> 00:57.880]  From Billy Bon.
[02:21.440 --> 02:22.860]  ...to avoid Gothamist.
[02:23.600 --> 02:25.000]  They're owned by our...
[02:25.000 --> 02:28.520]  You're not muted, guys, like you're supposed to be.
[02:29.660 --> 02:30.560]  Sorry about that.
[02:30.740 --> 02:31.940]  That's okay, that's okay.
[02:31.940 --> 02:33.400]  I'm sure the tri-state area forgives you.
[02:33.620 --> 02:35.060]  I was just trying to usher everybody out of here.
[02:35.120 --> 02:36.540]  All the phone company announcements.
[02:36.840 --> 02:38.280]  It gets really crowded in here.
[02:38.920 --> 02:45.640]  Aren't those phone ladies nice, though, to spend the time to give us our special tailored announcements for this radio show?
[02:45.880 --> 02:46.840]  It's Off The Hook.
[02:47.020 --> 02:49.020]  We're here again on a Wednesday night.
[02:49.160 --> 02:49.960]  Emanuel over here.
[02:50.080 --> 02:50.900]  Kyle over there.
[02:51.020 --> 02:52.100]  And as you've already heard...
[02:52.100 --> 02:52.660]  Oh, go ahead, Kyle.
[02:52.740 --> 02:53.160]  Say hello.
[02:53.780 --> 02:54.440]  Hi, Emanuel.
[02:54.600 --> 02:56.800]  Already heard Rob and Gila...
[02:57.300 --> 02:58.020]  Good evening.
[02:58.180 --> 02:59.560]  ...speaking into their live microphones.
[03:00.880 --> 03:03.120]  Boy, I can't believe that went out over the air.
[03:03.580 --> 03:04.260]  Things they were saying.
[03:05.040 --> 03:05.480]  Wow.
[03:05.480 --> 03:06.840]  Well, we'll clean it up later.
[03:07.920 --> 03:09.840]  An interesting couple of days.
[03:09.840 --> 03:10.720]  Interesting week.
[03:11.860 --> 03:12.720]  Where do we start?
[03:13.000 --> 03:16.600]  I've been having a bit of a war with big technology companies.
[03:16.600 --> 03:17.860]  You know, they start it.
[03:18.380 --> 03:19.300]  Seriously, they start it.
[03:19.800 --> 03:20.700]  Facebook, Google.
[03:21.000 --> 03:22.100]  I don't know what it is.
[03:22.200 --> 03:24.060]  I must have annoyed them or something.
[03:25.240 --> 03:30.480]  Facebook started the whole thing by basically cutting me off from my instant messages.
[03:31.280 --> 03:35.560]  You know, I use Facebook Messenger, but I only use it as a sidebar.
[03:35.680 --> 03:42.920]  I don't actually use Facebook, but I'm able to talk to people through Facebook using the Trillian interface to Facebook Messenger.
[03:42.920 --> 03:57.500]  Well, one morning, Facebook decided that my Trillian interface was a hacker and said somebody is trying to get into your account or somebody has succeeded in getting into your account and we blocked them, which just sort of contradicts itself.
[03:57.500 --> 04:06.000]  But basically what that meant was the beginning of a three-day battle to get my app to be able to log in like it's been doing for years.
[04:06.840 --> 04:14.100]  And I had to change my password no less than three times because every time I answered their automated query saying, was this you?
[04:14.480 --> 04:16.420]  And I said, yes, that was me.
[04:16.560 --> 04:19.480]  I had to make a new password just to be safe.
[04:19.840 --> 04:21.760]  It was the most frustrating thing in the world.
[04:21.760 --> 04:34.440]  And then today, today I find out that my communications to you folks who for some reason use Gmail has been going into the trash bin just, you know, directly from me to you.
[04:34.580 --> 04:35.180]  Nope, spam.
[04:35.360 --> 04:36.780]  All of a sudden I'm spam.
[04:38.280 --> 04:39.960]  And Google has decreed that.
[04:40.380 --> 04:43.340]  And, you know, everybody says, well, this is what you have to do.
[04:43.440 --> 04:44.960]  Why do I have to do anything?
[04:45.180 --> 04:47.320]  It's Google that is the problem here.
[04:47.320 --> 04:54.460]  And in fact, you know, I've said this to many, many people, people who use Gmail, go take a trip over to your spam box.
[04:54.720 --> 05:01.820]  OK, just, you know, wander over there and tell me how many pieces of email are in there that you really would like to see.
[05:02.100 --> 05:05.340]  Yeah, people say Gmail has great spam filtering.
[05:05.960 --> 05:08.680]  They have very overzealous spam filtering.
[05:09.140 --> 05:17.100]  When you email your own account from your rescue account and it gets labeled as spam, that's overzealous in my opinion.
[05:17.100 --> 05:23.540]  And yet, you know, every time you dare to criticize Gmail or Google, people tell you, oh, you're doing it wrong.
[05:23.540 --> 05:26.080]  You have to modify your behavior.
[05:26.080 --> 05:27.980]  You have to not use these particular words.
[05:28.380 --> 05:31.900]  It's always you that's the problem, not the big tech companies.
[05:32.480 --> 05:34.060]  Well, I've just about had it.
[05:35.140 --> 05:37.420]  I won't be using email anymore.
[05:38.420 --> 05:40.460]  I'll call you all on the phone from now on.
[05:42.060 --> 05:42.960]  There's nothing you can do.
[05:43.040 --> 05:44.160]  You can't talk to a person.
[05:44.840 --> 05:51.660]  Um, the best you can do is tweet and maybe somebody will, um, uh, will get back to you.
[05:51.800 --> 05:52.340]  Who's a bot.
[05:52.480 --> 05:52.880]  Oh, that's it.
[05:52.920 --> 05:54.340]  I'd left out a company off that Amazon.
[05:55.200 --> 05:55.580]  Yeah.
[05:55.660 --> 05:57.340]  Amazon completely ripped me off this week.
[05:57.700 --> 06:01.360]  I was downloading music and, um, you know, digitally.
[06:01.620 --> 06:01.900]  Yeah.
[06:01.960 --> 06:03.300]  Don't they owe you a dollar?
[06:03.480 --> 06:08.360]  They only 99 cents because what I did was I was, I was on a 1972 kick.
[06:08.360 --> 06:10.640]  You wouldn't believe how many good songs there are in 1972.
[06:10.640 --> 06:12.200]  I decided I wanted them all.
[06:12.420 --> 06:16.200]  So I was, I was literally buying every single song from Amazon.
[06:16.780 --> 06:17.100]  Okay.
[06:17.460 --> 06:24.840]  And, um, uh, they, they basically told me that, uh, you can't download this anymore, even though I hadn't downloaded it at all.
[06:25.080 --> 06:28.260]  Um, the problem is I figured this out because they couldn't do it.
[06:28.520 --> 06:31.520]  Um, they're naming the files, the same thing.
[06:31.520 --> 06:42.500]  So if I, if I, um, uh, download a song from the temptations, okay, it's named something it's, it's got the date and, um, some other, um, uh, number or name.
[06:42.660 --> 06:47.940]  And then if I download another song from Stevie wonder say it has the exact same file name.
[06:48.060 --> 06:56.060]  And then when I tried to download Stevie wonder song, it says, no, you already downloaded this because it's the same file name and it won't let you and it keeps your money.
[06:57.080 --> 06:58.340]  That's what it did to me.
[06:58.820 --> 07:10.040]  And, um, I, I, I, uh, complained about this on Twitter, which is what Twitter is good for, by the way, is complaining about things to big corporations because it gets their attention and somebody or something responds to you.
[07:10.440 --> 07:17.920]  And yeah, so I, I, I got the response from something, um, that, uh, claimed to want to help me.
[07:18.080 --> 07:29.780]  And this happened about four or five different times where I was, uh, basically lured into some kind of online chat where I explained the situation to them and they tell me to do something which is completely useless and doesn't do any good whatsoever.
[07:30.260 --> 07:32.720]  And then I just have to go back to Twitter and complain again.
[07:32.900 --> 07:46.680]  And then the whole process starts over and over in all this time with all this complaining and, and talking to various beings on the internet, nobody has been able to get me the song that I paid for or the 99 cents that I paid.
[07:46.780 --> 07:48.020]  Nobody can do that at Amazon.
[07:48.020 --> 07:48.780]  It's incredible.
[07:49.180 --> 07:54.520]  You know, I don't really care about the 99 cents, but it's, it's, you know, it's just the point of the thing.
[07:55.340 --> 07:58.480]  So basically in the end, I went to Ukraine.
[07:59.420 --> 07:59.780]  Yeah.
[07:59.840 --> 08:02.520]  There's a, there's a, there's a great, uh, MP3 site in Ukraine.
[08:02.680 --> 08:04.340]  Uh, it's a 10th the cost.
[08:04.620 --> 08:07.460]  I like to think I'm sort of helping out the country in some way.
[08:08.060 --> 08:11.280]  And, uh, you're giving a big middle finger to Amazon at the same time.
[08:11.700 --> 08:17.140]  I, you know, and I don't think the artists are getting paid either way, but that's, there's no way to know that.
[08:17.260 --> 08:22.800]  So, yeah, for some reason, for some reason, big corporations have been, um, um, angering me this.
[08:23.040 --> 08:24.300]  I know why they're angering me.
[08:24.380 --> 08:26.000]  I don't know why they're acting the way they're acting.
[08:27.720 --> 08:29.360]  So how's your week been guys?
[08:31.360 --> 08:33.740]  Um, I, I bought some music and it works fine.
[08:33.940 --> 08:36.120]  So, uh, you know, I'll just throw that in your face.
[08:36.240 --> 08:39.300]  They're, uh, Emmanuel and make you completely jealous of me.
[08:40.680 --> 08:45.420]  Um, I didn't buy it from Amazon, but, but I bought it in a way that, uh, benefits the artists in the long run.
[08:45.600 --> 08:51.240]  So, um, if I have that going, if I could walk up to the artist and buy a CD from them, I would do that for sure.
[08:51.440 --> 08:55.020]  But, you know, like I said, 1972, many of them aren't around anymore.
[08:55.880 --> 08:56.040]  That's true.
[08:56.120 --> 08:57.940]  What, what's the song that you couldn't download?
[08:57.960 --> 08:58.460]  I'm curious.
[08:58.900 --> 09:01.060]  Um, um, you know what?
[09:01.120 --> 09:02.080]  I, I, I know this.
[09:02.920 --> 09:04.280]  Um, it's, it's going to come to me.
[09:04.740 --> 09:05.720]  Oh, I know what it is.
[09:05.860 --> 09:08.600]  If loving you is wrong, I don't want to be right.
[09:09.560 --> 09:10.340]  That's the song.
[09:10.960 --> 09:11.320]  Excellent.
[09:11.440 --> 09:12.880]  1972 was a banner year.
[09:13.080 --> 09:13.300]  Uh huh.
[09:13.940 --> 09:16.120]  Anyway, just, it's my problem.
[09:16.340 --> 09:17.100]  I'll deal with it.
[09:17.100 --> 09:18.060]  I'll get my revenge.
[09:18.080 --> 09:19.440]  I'll get my 99 cents back.
[09:20.220 --> 09:23.180]  And I'll figure out how to send mail to people without being labeled as spam.
[09:24.120 --> 09:24.340]  Yeah.
[09:24.460 --> 09:29.380]  It's like the virtual equivalent of like, uh, losing something in a vending machine, you know?
[09:29.520 --> 09:30.200]  Yeah, it is.
[09:30.300 --> 09:33.940]  I'm rocking that, that digital vending machine precariously tilting it.
[09:33.940 --> 09:34.980]  Maybe it'll fall on me.
[09:35.080 --> 09:37.540]  Maybe it won't, but I'm going to get what I paid for.
[09:39.860 --> 09:51.060]  And the, the email story is, uh, is saddening because email is kind of one of the last bastions of the, of the old internet where anybody could just contact anyone and you didn't need any special clients.
[09:51.220 --> 09:53.960]  You didn't need to be signed up to any particular walled garden.
[09:54.120 --> 09:59.700]  You could just, if you had email, you had email and you could send and you could receive and it is simple and it is beautiful.
[09:59.700 --> 10:09.200]  And not enough people, uh, uh, still think of email as something that's, uh, that's, you know, a basic building block of how to communicate with people online.
[10:09.340 --> 10:14.200]  People want to go to direct messaging on a, on a social media site or, or something else.
[10:14.520 --> 10:19.780]  And, uh, you know, I, I have, I have had good friends, uh, tell me that they didn't want to email me something.
[10:20.080 --> 10:22.880]  Just let me DM you on a such and such a site.
[10:23.020 --> 10:23.220]  Okay.
[10:23.260 --> 10:28.360]  But Rob, you know what I say to these people who want to do that, I'm not on that site.
[10:28.360 --> 10:30.040]  I don't have an account there.
[10:30.180 --> 10:30.880]  I have an email address.
[10:31.000 --> 10:32.140]  Everyone has an email address.
[10:32.560 --> 10:36.140]  You know, you can't keep yourself from getting an email address of one sort or another.
[10:36.760 --> 10:42.340]  Uh, what do they say when you tell them, but I'm not there, you know, I'm not on Facebook.
[10:42.680 --> 10:44.580]  I'm not on this particular client.
[10:45.220 --> 10:46.420]  Here's my email address.
[10:46.560 --> 10:48.300]  Can you, and you have an email address too.
[10:48.480 --> 10:50.520]  So why the reluctance?
[10:52.420 --> 10:53.080]  I don't know.
[10:53.200 --> 10:56.060]  I guess it's just not, uh, not as cool as it used to be.
[10:57.220 --> 10:57.740]  Yeah.
[10:57.820 --> 11:18.460]  The, what I am hearing is that mindset that, that theirs is the system that is, um, that is logical and that you have to, uh, everyone else who isn't on there, uh, as you said, walled garden, uh, they have to bend and, uh, and contort themselves around to fit what,
[11:18.460 --> 11:30.580]  uh, your group is, uh, deciding on any given day to even sign any, any hour, uh, what they decide are the new rules for something as, uh, universal as email.
[11:30.880 --> 11:32.540]  The point of it is to be interoperable.
[11:33.300 --> 11:42.820]  And it shouldn't be that, um, you're, you're kind of getting a cohort of email users and then changing the rules just because you have a large user base.
[11:42.820 --> 11:54.080]  It's, yeah, it's kind of like, um, um, a microcosm of the internet itself where it's, it's breaking up into little, uh, walled gardens that you can't climb the wall and get to the other gardens.
[11:54.400 --> 11:56.340]  Uh, basically everyone is in their own little world.
[11:56.620 --> 12:07.940]  In fact, you can see this happening, uh, with the war in, um, uh, in Ukraine, uh, where, uh, Russia is being, um, uh, pretty much, um, closed off and Russia is closing off the world.
[12:07.940 --> 12:14.020]  You know, things like that are happening more and more, or, you know, North Korea certainly has perfected that or China.
[12:14.400 --> 12:18.540]  Um, you're getting to a point where the technology is there.
[12:18.780 --> 12:21.700]  It's just not connected anymore to itself.
[12:22.260 --> 12:32.240]  And I think that's a very dangerous and, and, and negative thing to have the, the, the whole point of the internet was to connect us all together so we could communicate.
[12:32.240 --> 12:41.620]  And now you have to jump through hoops to figure out how to communicate with people because, you know, they all use different rules rather than the one thing that ties us all together.
[12:41.920 --> 12:51.400]  It's like, you know, imagine if, um, uh, you know, your phone, those of you who remember telephones, actual telephones in houses, you know, that, that rang that were hooked up to the wall.
[12:51.580 --> 12:59.320]  Uh, imagine if, uh, somebody couldn't call you because they used a different phone company and there was no way for that phone company to talk to your phone company.
[12:59.620 --> 13:01.540]  It kind of defeats the whole purpose of a phone.
[13:02.820 --> 13:03.220]  Yeah.
[13:03.220 --> 13:03.220]  Yeah.
[13:03.480 --> 13:16.800]  And that whole network becomes... kind of collapses, sort of implodes from the hubs and the places where it intersects.
[13:16.880 --> 13:26.920]  And it's a real disintegration of something that was otherwise wildly connected and growing.
[13:27.380 --> 13:33.240]  See, I understand why countries are doing this.
[13:33.480 --> 13:38.920]  Why governments want their people to be segregated from other people in other places.
[13:38.920 --> 13:39.660]  I get that.
[13:39.840 --> 13:42.340]  What I don't get is why we're doing it to ourselves.
[13:42.560 --> 13:45.380]  Why are we cutting ourselves off from other people?
[13:45.520 --> 13:55.360]  When it's the easiest thing in the world to shoot an email to somebody, we're making it so difficult that people never get back to you because they're getting back to you in the wrong way.
[13:56.080 --> 13:57.600]  It's really sad.
[13:57.860 --> 13:58.420]  It really is sad.
[13:58.840 --> 14:03.360]  Well, it's this idea of not trusting anyone, the zero trust.
[14:03.360 --> 14:14.700]  It's like they have all their users and anybody else is on some spectrum of really sketchy to, okay, maybe we'll let this email come through.
[14:15.400 --> 14:19.400]  You trust Facebook more than you trust just email by itself?
[14:19.400 --> 14:21.260]  Well, and that's the sort of paradox.
[14:21.260 --> 14:36.680]  It's like self-fulfilling in that their own user policy leads to abuse in a lot of ways from their own group and these like fake accounts, that whole herring.
[14:36.680 --> 14:54.140]  But there's all this outside communication and stuff that, of course, spear phishing and the proliferation of spam makes even mere pleasantries impossible because of the deluge and because of this filtering.
[14:54.520 --> 14:57.720]  So are we getting better or are we getting worse?
[14:57.720 --> 14:58.880]  It's hard to even tell.
[14:58.880 --> 15:00.620]  It's just a storm of bad info.
[15:00.620 --> 15:01.100]  Oh, we're getting worse.
[15:01.100 --> 15:01.520]  I know.
[15:01.740 --> 15:02.740]  It's pretty easy to tell.
[15:02.880 --> 15:04.420]  We're getting worse for sure.
[15:04.420 --> 15:07.280]  However, the question is, how do we, how do we reverse this?
[15:07.440 --> 15:08.220]  How do we make it better?
[15:08.440 --> 15:17.420]  I know, you know, people are concerned with privacy and many, many email clients these days encrypt.
[15:18.440 --> 15:21.100]  So that should not be a concern as much.
[15:21.840 --> 15:25.040]  And there are always holes no matter how protected you think you are.
[15:25.340 --> 15:29.240]  So I think there's, there's kind of, you know, an even ground no matter what platform you're using.
[15:29.240 --> 15:34.540]  I think the key is to use a platform that as many people as possible access on a regular basis.
[15:35.160 --> 15:39.800]  Have you ever tried to talk in like a nightclub or like a really loud venue?
[15:40.100 --> 15:41.660]  Like you're, you're next to someone.
[15:41.820 --> 15:42.780]  I was trying that last night.
[15:42.900 --> 15:43.020]  Yeah.
[15:43.240 --> 15:48.860]  You're having a conversation and you, you kind of can hear them, but there's all this noise around you.
[15:48.860 --> 15:52.300]  You spend most of your time smiling and nodding and hoping you're not agreeing to something you don't want to do.
[15:52.360 --> 15:56.680]  Like you, you feel like you're pretending to communicate, but it's not, it's really ceremonial.
[15:56.680 --> 15:59.440]  It's not, you're not getting much good information through.
[15:59.600 --> 16:02.160]  That's kind of, I feel like the analogy of where we're at.
[16:02.260 --> 16:11.440]  It's like we have the capability, but there's so much external noise and, and it's so compromised in these different ways that it's, it's hard to even use.
[16:11.640 --> 16:16.860]  It's, it's like, you don't want to hear what the person has to say because they might have your worst fears.
[16:16.960 --> 16:17.020]  Yeah.
[16:17.060 --> 16:17.440]  Go ahead, Gila.
[16:18.000 --> 16:18.280]  Sorry.
[16:18.320 --> 16:22.440]  This is all just reminding me of years ago, a place where I used to work.
[16:22.440 --> 16:34.720]  I had a colleague who was told, and I don't know if this was true or she was just convinced of this, that there was a setting on her email that was not allowing her to email anyone outside of the organization.
[16:34.720 --> 16:43.720]  And she had to get special authorization to email anyone, to email any email address that did not end in our organization's TLD.
[16:44.940 --> 16:53.480]  And I don't know if that was actually true, but this person told everyone that, yeah, she couldn't email anybody outside the organization.
[16:54.140 --> 16:58.740]  Well, I mean, it's, it's not uncommon to have that level of paranoia in an organization.
[16:59.220 --> 17:08.400]  And certainly it's not uncommon to have all of your email perused by your boss or by some administrator within that particular organization.
[17:09.040 --> 17:16.040]  And they legally have the right to do that because you're using their, their, um, their bandwidth, their, their computers.
[17:16.540 --> 17:18.460]  Uh, and a lot of people I don't think get that.
[17:19.380 --> 17:19.720]  Yeah.
[17:20.160 --> 17:25.860]  But no, this person was told they were not like any email they tried to write would not leave our organization.
[17:26.620 --> 17:33.300]  Like they couldn't contact anyone external, which I thought was fascinating and definitely something we discussed a lot.
[17:33.800 --> 17:44.380]  Um, but no, it also made me think of when I was young and email was first becoming a thing and could you email people on other services or was it like a long distance call?
[17:44.520 --> 17:46.140]  I was convinced it was like a long distance call.
[17:47.240 --> 17:52.960]  And if, you know, I was emailing someone on CompuServe from my AOL account, it was going to cost something.
[17:53.980 --> 18:00.020]  Well, you know, back in those days, uh, that thing was, that was probably a bit more, more common to think that way.
[18:00.020 --> 18:11.640]  I mean, in the days where, you know, you'd UUCP, your email, basically, you know, you'd write your email on a bulletin board and then at night it would call another bulletin board and transfer your email one step towards its destination.
[18:11.860 --> 18:12.820]  And that's how people communicated.
[18:13.000 --> 18:24.740]  So, yeah, you know, I could see people thinking that, um, uh, if you, if you, uh, email this particular domain, it might cost you more or there could be a risk involved, uh, in this day and age though, domains don't really mean anything.
[18:24.740 --> 18:28.000]  And, um, uh, you know, distance doesn't mean anything.
[18:28.620 --> 18:41.260]  So it's, um, it's just sad to see people, um, losing a grasp on that because we fought so hard to get to that point where, you know, we weren't separated by distance and by the expense of talking to each other.
[18:41.480 --> 18:47.620]  Uh, now we can reach out and talk to people anywhere and, uh, not worry about, about the expense.
[18:48.200 --> 18:49.640]  So we should be embracing that.
[18:49.960 --> 18:55.000]  We should be, uh, communicating as much as possible, whether it's somebody nearby or somebody on the other side of the planet.
[18:55.620 --> 19:06.080]  Um, we, we, uh, you know, shouldn't stand on ceremony and say only, uh, people who use this particular program or, or, uh, corporation or whatnot, uh, is, is worthy of speaking to me.
[19:06.180 --> 19:06.540]  It's silly.
[19:07.320 --> 19:08.000]  That's it.
[19:08.080 --> 19:09.680]  It's that risk and benefit.
[19:09.920 --> 19:25.100]  And, you know, you, you create something that's so secure that not just, um, people are only a certain few are gravitating towards it, but imagine it's so secure that only a certain, you know, one or two individuals know, know how to use it at all.
[19:25.340 --> 19:28.440]  Think about how much that narrows your ability to communicate.
[19:28.440 --> 19:40.440]  If, if only one or two other people in the world can use the communications technology that you've deemed so secure that you can use, makes you more elite because only certain people know how to reach you.
[19:40.780 --> 19:42.660]  Not anybody can communicate with you.
[19:43.100 --> 19:44.520]  It's really, uh, go ahead, Rob.
[19:45.120 --> 20:01.080]  You know, there was a story going around, uh, this past week about a prison in Michigan that, uh, banned books on, uh, Swahili and Spanish from the prison library because they didn't want the prisoners to learn an obscure language that the guards didn't know and thus be able to communicate among themselves without observation.
[20:01.500 --> 20:01.980]  Spanish?
[20:02.640 --> 20:02.960]  Yeah.
[20:03.100 --> 20:06.060]  Obscure language, Spanish, famously obscure language, Spanish.
[20:06.560 --> 20:10.000]  Nobody, nobody in that, nobody in that prison knew how to speak Spanish.
[20:10.820 --> 20:14.460]  Or they just don't want to hire a Spanish speaker.
[20:14.460 --> 20:15.220]  In the United States.
[20:16.340 --> 20:17.400]  That's incredible to me.
[20:18.240 --> 20:19.320]  Hey, we got some news.
[20:19.540 --> 20:23.560]  Yeah, there is other news going on besides our own problems.
[20:23.680 --> 20:32.880]  By the way, our email address, which we do read, except sometimes those of us who receive it on Gmail might wind up by having to go into our spam folder to find the mail.
[20:33.660 --> 20:35.860]  OTH at 2600.com.
[20:35.980 --> 20:39.140]  I can promise you 2600.com is not in any way connected to Gmail.
[20:39.900 --> 20:41.340]  We run our own server.
[20:41.600 --> 20:43.840]  And we welcome spam.
[20:43.840 --> 20:45.580]  We decide when it's spam and when it's not.
[20:46.040 --> 20:48.600]  It takes a lot of different coins, too.
[20:49.260 --> 20:49.940]  It takes coins?
[20:50.180 --> 20:51.760]  Yeah, that's how I keep it working.
[20:52.140 --> 20:52.420]  Really?
[20:52.800 --> 20:53.620]  That's what I heard.
[20:53.820 --> 20:54.560]  Like a parking meter.
[20:54.780 --> 20:54.900]  Yeah.
[20:55.280 --> 20:56.300]  Okay, Elon Musk.
[20:56.500 --> 21:00.200]  Let's just break the mood here by saying Elon Musk.
[21:00.500 --> 21:03.240]  Yeah, that silences any room when you do that.
[21:04.160 --> 21:06.200]  He is getting what he asked for.
[21:06.400 --> 21:08.300]  He's getting exactly what he asked for.
[21:09.060 --> 21:24.860]  Twitter's board of directors, after initially resisting his demands for data that backed up its claims about spam and bot accounts representing less than 5% of daily active users, they're going to go ahead and change course, according to the Washington Post,
[21:25.260 --> 21:27.940]  citing an anonymous source familiar with the company's thinking.
[21:28.680 --> 21:34.600]  Musk, this week, threatened to call off his $44 billion offer to acquire Twitter over the issue.
[21:34.600 --> 21:42.520]  In a letter to the company, his lawyer said Twitter's refusal to provide data about spam and fake accounts represented a material breach of their agreement.
[21:42.860 --> 21:58.000]  Now, in an effort to close the deal, Twitter will offer Musk and his team access to its full fire hose of raw data from the social platform, which includes 500 million plus tweets posted daily as early as early as this week.
[21:58.020 --> 22:03.780]  Can you imagine what he is going to be subjected to in a matter of hours, probably?
[22:04.160 --> 22:14.380]  The massive amount of crap that he's going to have to wade through and figure out, okay, does this represent something that's acceptable to me?
[22:15.500 --> 22:16.100]  Yeah.
[22:16.500 --> 22:26.600]  Back in April, when Elon Musk first proposed the deal to buy Twitter, he waived his right to conduct deep due diligence on the company's operations.
[22:26.860 --> 22:27.840]  Why would you do that?
[22:28.120 --> 22:28.720]  Why, Elon?
[22:29.560 --> 22:32.620]  I mean, $44 billion, you know, it's no chump change there.
[22:32.800 --> 22:33.860]  You should be careful.
[22:34.680 --> 22:37.420]  He's on the hook to pay a breakup fee.
[22:37.500 --> 22:38.700]  How much do you think that breakup fee is?
[22:39.020 --> 22:39.640]  Anyone want to guess?
[22:40.360 --> 22:41.160]  Unless you know.
[22:42.040 --> 22:42.980]  Gila, it looks like you have a guess.
[22:45.080 --> 22:45.620]  Come on.
[22:45.840 --> 22:46.620]  No, I do not.
[22:47.480 --> 22:48.720]  You can say a number.
[22:48.900 --> 22:50.380]  I mean, it's not, you know, anything.
[22:50.560 --> 22:50.760]  Okay.
[22:51.460 --> 22:52.260]  $42 billion.
[22:52.800 --> 22:56.580]  A $42 billion fee on a $44 billion deal, and it gets nothing?
[22:57.660 --> 22:58.060]  Yes.
[22:59.180 --> 23:00.380]  No, that's not right.
[23:00.620 --> 23:02.220]  Kyle, did you have a guess?
[23:02.700 --> 23:03.860]  $4.2 billion.
[23:04.020 --> 23:04.760]  That's a good guess.
[23:04.900 --> 23:05.620]  That's a very good guess.
[23:05.640 --> 23:06.720]  It's almost like 10%.
[23:06.720 --> 23:07.760]  I like that.
[23:07.920 --> 23:08.860]  I like that way of thinking.
[23:08.960 --> 23:09.560]  Rob, did you have one?
[23:11.020 --> 23:14.120]  I'll say maybe $1.
[23:14.560 --> 23:14.820]  No.
[23:15.560 --> 23:15.820]  Wow.
[23:16.420 --> 23:17.600]  How about $8 billion?
[23:17.960 --> 23:18.600]  $8 billion.
[23:18.760 --> 23:19.460]  That's good.
[23:19.620 --> 23:21.040]  You know, 20%, I guess.
[23:21.560 --> 23:23.040]  It's a sizable penalty.
[23:23.260 --> 23:27.460]  I'm going to guess $1 billion, which is correct, because I'm reading the story, and it's right in front of me.
[23:27.700 --> 23:42.120]  $1 billion fee is what he has to pay if he is subjected to the breakup fee for walking away from the deal, and of course, he could also be the target of lawsuits by Twitter shareholders or Twitter itself.
[23:42.280 --> 23:46.940]  Why would a Twitter shareholder sue Elon Musk for not buying the company?
[23:47.620 --> 23:49.780]  I mean, does it really hurt them that much?
[23:49.960 --> 23:51.160]  You're still a shareholder.
[23:51.940 --> 23:54.960]  It has, though, because since he's been...
[23:54.960 --> 24:01.320]  Like, Twitter stock prices have tanked since he started coming forward with all of this.
[24:01.660 --> 24:01.920]  Uh-huh.
[24:02.240 --> 24:04.560]  Wouldn't they still have tanked after he bought it, though?
[24:05.140 --> 24:08.400]  I mean, how would it improve after he buys it?
[24:11.480 --> 24:17.480]  Unclear, but it has gone drastically down, I think, in the last couple of weeks since he came forward with all of this.
[24:17.600 --> 24:20.060]  So, I don't know.
[24:20.220 --> 24:20.640]  Well...
[24:20.640 --> 24:21.380]  I don't understand.
[24:23.460 --> 24:25.080]  It's going to be interesting.
[24:25.420 --> 24:33.840]  In another development, Twitter shareholders will be voting in late July or early August focused on whether to approve Elon Musk's bid for the company.
[24:34.620 --> 24:36.700]  So, they get still rejected after all this?
[24:37.100 --> 24:38.380]  That's kind of amazing, isn't it?
[24:38.440 --> 24:41.020]  Does he get $1 billion for wasting his time if that happens?
[24:43.120 --> 24:44.080]  I mean, you know, I'm not...
[24:44.080 --> 24:44.360]  I don't know.
[24:44.480 --> 24:49.840]  I'm not usually in the habit of arguing for Elon Musk to get more money, but it just seems like, come on already.
[24:50.020 --> 24:51.760]  It's either, you know...
[24:51.760 --> 24:52.920]  I can't say that on the air.
[24:53.040 --> 24:57.180]  Either buy the company or get off the can, basically, is where I'm going with that.
[24:57.940 --> 25:14.200]  But, you know, given his history for throwing things out there on Twitter that would send one company or another's stock flying off in different directions, Elon Musk knows that he has the ability to just change the face of whatever's going on at a particular company or,
[25:14.380 --> 25:15.380]  you know, with its stock.
[25:15.960 --> 25:22.280]  And so, like, if this is all some big pro wrestling style work, I am fascinated to know how it ends for him.
[25:23.900 --> 25:32.500]  But also, the guy, didn't he make some of his money through PayPal, so he knows about, like, bullcrap fees being added onto the prices people thought they were paying for things?
[25:33.080 --> 25:34.360]  That's the American way.
[25:34.440 --> 25:35.020]  That's the secret.
[25:35.840 --> 25:37.040]  Those bullcrap fees.
[25:37.640 --> 25:39.900]  I think it's put up or shut up, right?
[25:40.060 --> 25:40.460]  Yeah, yeah.
[25:40.600 --> 25:41.300]  That's another phrase.
[25:41.480 --> 25:42.360]  In the Constitution.
[25:42.760 --> 25:55.740]  Hey, maybe someone here can explain this to me because, you know, I've been really busy preparation for the Hope Conference and the magazine and trying to do a little gardening and, you know, things like that have taken all of my time.
[25:56.280 --> 25:59.640]  I don't know what, in God's name, the Bored Ape Yacht Club is.
[25:59.720 --> 26:01.560]  Can somebody explain what this is?
[26:01.580 --> 26:06.420]  Because I keep hearing it in the news and I don't know what they're talking about.
[26:07.640 --> 26:09.480]  And apparently, none of you do either.
[26:09.900 --> 26:10.860]  I feel better.
[26:11.180 --> 26:15.760]  But really, no one knows what the Bored Ape Yacht Club NFT, that's the clue for you.
[26:15.960 --> 26:16.200]  Gila?
[26:16.200 --> 26:21.540]  Yeah, they're dumb-looking pictures of monkeys that are NFTs.
[26:21.860 --> 26:23.140]  They actually are apes.
[26:23.300 --> 26:23.880]  I didn't know that.
[26:24.040 --> 26:24.580]  I heard this was a...
[26:24.580 --> 26:25.520]  No, they're legit.
[26:25.660 --> 26:26.000]  They're monkeys.
[26:26.380 --> 26:28.440]  It's like an art project or something?
[26:28.840 --> 26:35.860]  Yeah, and people are, like, pinning their entire identity on these apes.
[26:36.180 --> 26:40.200]  Apparently, 10,000 unique Bored Ape NFTs.
[26:42.340 --> 26:43.060]  Yeah.
[26:43.560 --> 26:44.900]  There you go.
[26:44.900 --> 26:46.280]  So, and...
[26:46.280 --> 26:47.600]  But who are they?
[26:47.780 --> 26:51.600]  Is this a particular entity or is this just a collection?
[26:51.980 --> 26:55.260]  Well, I think part of it is generative art.
[26:55.720 --> 26:57.940]  Rob, do you know how to describe that, maybe?
[26:58.660 --> 26:59.000]  Yeah.
[26:59.300 --> 27:17.160]  The thing with these is that these NFTs, they're all based on one drawing of an ape-looking board, like a cartoony ape, but algorithmically, they generated 10,000 of these, adding different clothes to the ape or different accessories or giving it little props or things,
[27:17.320 --> 27:19.120]  but it's all basically pictures of the same ape.
[27:19.120 --> 27:26.540]  And so your NFT, if you bought one of these, is your particular unique ape out of the set.
[27:27.620 --> 27:28.360]  Wait, wait, wait.
[27:28.500 --> 27:29.600]  Let's stop you for a second.
[27:29.800 --> 27:32.380]  So it's one damn ape.
[27:32.500 --> 27:33.380]  It's one ape.
[27:33.380 --> 27:40.120]  And somebody is putting different clothes and expressions on this one drawing.
[27:40.340 --> 27:41.760]  Not even somebody.
[27:41.980 --> 27:43.220]  An algorithm does it.
[27:43.220 --> 27:43.920]  An algorithm is doing this.
[27:44.040 --> 27:44.220]  Okay.
[27:44.660 --> 27:47.180]  So who owned the first picture?
[27:47.360 --> 27:48.400]  Who drew the picture?
[27:49.820 --> 27:55.860]  I don't know offhand who drew the picture, but it's owned by the Bordet Piat Club collection of images.
[27:55.860 --> 27:59.720]  It's a project of a company called Yuga Labs.
[28:00.860 --> 28:01.500]  Okay.
[28:01.580 --> 28:10.060]  So basically, they weren't content to just fool people with one NFT to buy a digital image.
[28:10.460 --> 28:16.180]  They copied lots and lots of them and got lots and lots of NFTs.
[28:16.640 --> 28:19.680]  They must be making money hand over fist.
[28:20.100 --> 28:23.180]  Now, there's more.
[28:23.480 --> 28:24.400]  Oh, I know there's more.
[28:24.480 --> 28:25.240]  I'm getting to the more.
[28:25.240 --> 28:27.420]  I'm trying to figure out the what first.
[28:27.800 --> 28:32.340]  Rob, you can't forget to tell them about the ApeCoin.
[28:32.480 --> 28:33.060]  Oh, no.
[28:33.680 --> 28:33.840]  ApeCoin.
[28:33.840 --> 28:34.700]  Because every...
[28:34.700 --> 28:35.720]  Is this necessary?
[28:35.820 --> 28:37.100]  Do you really have to tell me about this?
[28:37.260 --> 28:48.320]  Every buyer of one of these images was able to get a certain amount of a cryptocurrency as well.
[28:48.940 --> 28:51.140]  Did the human race hit its head or something?
[28:51.300 --> 28:58.700]  I mean, seriously, between not being able to communicate anymore and these NFTs and Bored Apes and everything like that, I don't know what world I'm on.
[28:59.240 --> 28:59.660]  Wait.
[28:59.860 --> 29:01.860]  It's about to get better or worse.
[29:01.860 --> 29:02.280]  Why?
[29:02.280 --> 29:03.200]  Why does it have to?
[29:04.600 --> 29:10.160]  Because on April 30th, Yuga Labs launched their own Metaverse project.
[29:11.820 --> 29:13.340]  As is their right, I'm sure.
[29:13.340 --> 29:14.440]  I don't know what that means.
[29:16.140 --> 29:18.340]  It's a whole thing.
[29:18.840 --> 29:20.220]  And, like, I don't know.
[29:20.340 --> 29:26.540]  If I were going to get any cartoon ape, I would want it to be Grape Ape or perhaps Magilla Gorilla.
[29:28.400 --> 29:30.120]  And I don't know, man.
[29:30.440 --> 29:33.800]  Now, Rob, you draw pictures.
[29:33.800 --> 29:43.120]  What's to stop us, assuming you permit me, from, you know, teaming up, you and me, and we can draw, you know, a Bored Pig.
[29:43.760 --> 29:54.920]  You know, and then we'll have some kind of algorithm or something go out and make varieties of these Bored Pigs and different clothing and different expressions and all that.
[29:56.300 --> 30:04.820]  Why would the Bored Ape, I assume the Bored Ape, would basically continue to make tons of money and we probably wouldn't make a penny.
[30:04.960 --> 30:05.500]  But why?
[30:05.700 --> 30:07.380]  What's the reason for that?
[30:08.140 --> 30:12.800]  I think the reason for that would be they got in there in this whole scammy scene early.
[30:13.280 --> 30:18.840]  And they were just one of the big projects in the beginning of this whole current wave and craze.
[30:19.380 --> 30:21.620]  And, Kyle, I think you have feelings about this.
[30:22.340 --> 30:27.100]  Yeah, I think there's a couple different things that have gone on here with this.
[30:27.300 --> 30:33.100]  But there is a way to pump up the value of stuff like this.
[30:33.240 --> 30:39.820]  So once these art projects were created, they needed a place to be sold, like an auction site.
[30:40.020 --> 30:41.720]  Melania Trump knows how to do this, I believe.
[30:42.100 --> 30:43.940]  Yeah, I think.
[30:44.160 --> 30:44.980]  I've got her number somewhere.
[30:45.160 --> 30:47.040]  But she does coats, I think.
[30:47.160 --> 30:48.020]  I do have her number.
[30:48.060 --> 30:48.960]  No, wait, yeah, you're right.
[30:48.960 --> 30:51.620]  She did have one NFT, maybe a couple.
[30:52.080 --> 30:56.300]  Well, so anyway, there was a place where they were all being bought and sold, right?
[30:56.440 --> 30:59.740]  So, okay, here's where you have customers, right?
[31:00.020 --> 31:18.480]  Well, some of these, I think, allegedly, were bought by people who had already created them to drive up the price, then you sell it, so you pay yourself.
[31:20.240 --> 31:21.880]  Yeah, and somehow this isn't illegal.
[31:22.000 --> 31:23.760]  I don't understand how this isn't illegal.
[31:23.980 --> 31:28.500]  Then you sell it to somebody else for the price you paid, plus a price.
[31:28.680 --> 31:29.540]  It's like...
[31:29.540 --> 31:36.880]  Then you get paid what you paid yourself, and then they paid what you said it was worth, plus more.
[31:36.880 --> 31:44.100]  If I could, you know, basically draw an analogy, if people can recall real-world things, like a house, okay?
[31:44.140 --> 31:48.680]  That's something that you would physically... you own the physical house itself.
[31:49.440 --> 31:55.380]  Let's say you already own the house, but you put it up for sale, but then you bought the house from yourself for an inflated price.
[31:55.380 --> 32:01.820]  And then you have a record of that house somehow being worth more than it really is.
[32:01.940 --> 32:06.680]  And then some other poor sucker comes along and says, oh, okay, well, I'm going to pay the same amount.
[32:06.680 --> 32:08.940]  And, you know, and then you make a profit somehow.
[32:09.120 --> 32:10.720]  Yeah, they're like crypto deeds.
[32:10.940 --> 32:11.760]  How is this right?
[32:12.020 --> 32:12.840]  How is this legal?
[32:13.080 --> 32:23.420]  Well, there's no regulation, because these are novel forms of digital value that are being traded.
[32:23.420 --> 32:25.040]  And it got even crazier.
[32:25.240 --> 32:35.700]  There's other aspects to this, like the, you know, prices, things being sold, old orders, like old sales for lower prices.
[32:35.840 --> 32:38.980]  Somehow that was exploited on some of the aspects of that stuff.
[32:38.980 --> 32:45.220]  The reason I brought up the Bored Ape Yacht Club in the first place is because I keep seeing stories coming in about how somebody keeps hacking them.
[32:45.920 --> 32:47.520]  And they got hacked again.
[32:47.680 --> 32:49.360]  It's happened several times now.
[32:49.360 --> 32:55.120]  They were hacked on Saturday, and they've lost upwards of 200 Ethereum coins.
[32:55.300 --> 32:59.700]  That's about $360,000 worth of NFTs.
[33:00.480 --> 33:01.620]  And you know what?
[33:02.200 --> 33:03.560]  Is that wrong?
[33:03.800 --> 33:06.940]  For what they're doing, that's not wrong.
[33:06.940 --> 33:09.980]  Is it wrong for somebody to come in and say, you know what?
[33:10.040 --> 33:13.560]  I'm going to pilfer some of your fantasy money here.
[33:13.700 --> 33:19.580]  Well, it's real money, but it's, you know, based on value for something that isn't real.
[33:21.040 --> 33:22.160]  I don't know.
[33:22.600 --> 33:27.300]  Reality is really, it's getting trickier to get a handle on it.
[33:27.500 --> 33:41.420]  According to data from blockchain security firm Peck Shield, one Bored Ape Yacht Club and two Mutant Ape tokens were stolen in the scam.
[33:41.420 --> 33:53.220]  I swear, you know, if I was back when we started this show, listening to what I'm saying now, I would be convinced that we all took some kind of collective psychotic drug or something.
[33:54.120 --> 34:03.920]  Fortune magazine reported that the hack was the result of a phishing attack that compromised the Discord account of Boris Wagner, the project's community manager.
[34:03.920 --> 34:07.460]  After, you know, if you've used an email, I don't think it would have happened.
[34:07.840 --> 34:21.040]  After obtaining Wagner's login credentials, the attacker posted fake links in the Discord channels of the official Bored Ape Yacht Club and its related metaverse project called Otherside, according to the report.
[34:21.760 --> 34:31.420]  Twitter user NFT Herder was first to spot the compromise, tracing the stolen funds to four separate wallets worth an estimated 145 Ethereum.
[34:31.420 --> 34:33.320]  That's around $260,000.
[34:34.780 --> 34:43.880]  Yuga Labs confirmed the hack on the official Bored Ape Yacht Club Twitter account, reporting that its Discord servers were briefly exploited.
[34:44.320 --> 34:49.620]  About 200 Ethereum worth of NFTs appear to have been impacted, according to the tweet.
[34:50.700 --> 34:52.380]  Remember when that sentence was silly?
[34:52.700 --> 34:55.780]  We are still investigating, but if you were impacted, email us.
[34:56.140 --> 34:57.020]  Ah, right.
[34:57.340 --> 35:00.860]  They want you to email them if you want to fix this.
[35:01.420 --> 35:04.240]  Oh, that came around nicely, didn't it?
[35:06.420 --> 35:06.980]  Indeed.
[35:08.340 --> 35:08.760]  Okay.
[35:09.400 --> 35:18.980]  You know, I already thought deciding a JPEG was worth money was a silly idea, but none of this is changing my mind.
[35:19.140 --> 35:21.980]  And this whole thing just keeps going and getting weirder.
[35:22.900 --> 35:28.340]  There was a story at the end of last month that you saw, Gila.
[35:28.900 --> 35:29.300]  Yes.
[35:30.040 --> 35:37.200]  Seth Green, the actor Seth Green, whom you may know from Buffy the Vampire Slayer, the Austin Powers movie.
[35:37.340 --> 35:37.700]  Seth Green.
[35:37.840 --> 35:38.520]  No, you know Seth Green.
[35:38.620 --> 35:39.060]  Chris Griffin.
[35:40.260 --> 35:40.660]  Yes.
[35:40.860 --> 35:41.020]  Sure.
[35:41.100 --> 35:41.260]  Okay.
[35:41.340 --> 35:42.380]  Yeah, I know Chris Griffin.
[35:42.820 --> 35:43.220]  I know him.
[35:43.220 --> 35:43.360]  Okay.
[35:44.280 --> 35:45.660]  Sorry, I'm familiar with Seth Green.
[35:45.660 --> 35:47.460]  Not animated Seth Green, but I digress.
[35:47.460 --> 35:55.040]  He was planning on creating a cartoon based on the Bored Ape that he owned.
[35:55.780 --> 36:01.740]  And then he got phished and someone took the NFT and now he can't make the cartoon he was planning on making.
[36:02.980 --> 36:06.080]  Um, and he's trying to sue for it.
[36:06.640 --> 36:08.360]  Does he know who to sue?
[36:08.840 --> 36:10.000]  I mean, where do you begin?
[36:10.540 --> 36:12.000]  This is an excellent question.
[36:12.000 --> 36:32.610]  So it's, they're, the real world brick and mortar repercussions to these things are becoming more and more, I don't want to say insurmountable, inescapable, but like they're there and people are trying to really have it both ways.
[36:32.610 --> 36:44.210]  Because if you want to play in this unregulated ecosystem, and then somebody steals your stuff, so you can't make the cartoon you were going, like, I'm just fascinated by the cartoon.
[36:44.210 --> 36:52.710]  I'll be putting air quotes around most of these words, like stealing and stuff and, and, and paintings and whatever else, because it's all digital.
[36:52.710 --> 36:53.910]  It's all copyable.
[36:53.910 --> 37:03.330]  Um, you know, just because, uh, you have some kind of certificate saying that you own it, doesn't protect you in any way if somebody is able to hack the system.
[37:04.650 --> 37:08.210]  Um, it's, you know, no one can tell me why this is a good idea.
[37:09.490 --> 37:12.890]  Other than to make a quick buck and to be in on something before anybody else is.
[37:13.030 --> 37:13.430]  Okay.
[37:13.570 --> 37:14.690]  If that's your idea, good.
[37:14.850 --> 37:15.610]  That's, that's fine.
[37:15.990 --> 37:21.270]  But, um, I just don't see it being something that people take seriously for very much longer.
[37:23.110 --> 37:30.370]  I don't know, as, as, as an artist, like I've, I've ranted on this program many a time, I believe, since this whole NFT thing, uh, took root.
[37:30.630 --> 37:42.510]  Um, but I, I will say again, that like the strength of a digital file and the strength of creativity expressed in a digital form is you can copy it and you can spread it around and every copy is identical and just as valuable.
[37:42.510 --> 37:55.050]  And the, the fact that, uh, there is an entire, um, pyramid scheme-y scene going on around people convincing themselves that, that, of otherwise, it just, it just breaks my head, guys.
[37:55.970 --> 38:12.570]  Well, and, remember, there was a, I was, I remember ranting about this on the show, the, the, the worst thing that they could call you in the NFT Bitcoin universe, but specifically NFT, was they would, like, say you had the right clicker mentality.
[38:13.510 --> 38:13.910]  Wow.
[38:14.990 --> 38:16.550]  Yeah, that's, that's, that's a thing.
[38:16.730 --> 38:17.290]  That's a thing.
[38:17.410 --> 38:17.630]  Uh-huh.
[38:18.050 --> 38:18.170]  Yeah.
[38:18.350 --> 38:23.890]  Now, you want to explain the right click, you're basically, you're right click and, and, and that allows you to copy.
[38:23.990 --> 38:25.370]  You can save the JPEG.
[38:25.510 --> 38:25.870]  Or save it.
[38:25.890 --> 38:28.090]  And you get it without paying for it.
[38:28.250 --> 38:36.190]  And I remember saying specifically that the concept of the right clicker mentality seemed to be so diametrically opposed to the hacker mindset.
[38:36.190 --> 38:39.430]  Because you can either share information or hoard it.
[38:39.770 --> 38:41.750]  And that brings back, and if, oh, I'm sorry, finish.
[38:42.390 --> 38:49.810]  No, I was going to say, if sharing things is the worst thing you can possibly do, that is not an ecosystem I want to be part of.
[38:50.250 --> 38:51.410]  That brings me back to Google.
[38:51.730 --> 38:54.870]  Because somebody shared with me a Google document.
[38:55.710 --> 38:58.250]  And, you know, it's, it's a couple of pages long.
[38:58.450 --> 39:01.690]  And I, you know, I like to have things in front of me and walk around.
[39:01.890 --> 39:04.890]  So, pieces of paper with ink works for me.
[39:04.890 --> 39:06.170]  I couldn't print it.
[39:06.310 --> 39:07.230]  It was disabled.
[39:07.490 --> 39:09.930]  It was disabled in every browser I tried.
[39:10.110 --> 39:12.010]  I tried selecting all.
[39:12.630 --> 39:13.970]  And that was disabled, too.
[39:14.310 --> 39:15.290]  Could not select it.
[39:15.410 --> 39:16.190]  Could not print it.
[39:16.470 --> 39:18.170]  And I've never encountered that before.
[39:18.310 --> 39:20.750]  Of course, what I wound up doing was taking a picture of it and printing that.
[39:20.890 --> 39:21.810]  But, come on.
[39:22.210 --> 39:32.090]  I don't think this is healthy at all to be restricting things in this manner as a means of somehow retaining value or what you think is privacy.
[39:33.370 --> 39:52.330]  I think the folly in setting really high prices on things and trying to get maximum amount of money out of a wave of enthusiasm and an idea, just extracting capital from people, is very greedy.
[39:52.330 --> 39:56.450]  And I think it attracts the kind of community it deserves.
[39:57.320 --> 40:19.210]  And ultimately, the idea of putting value in things that are based in sort of a cryptographic transaction scheme and blockchain and so forth, doesn't necessarily mean that you are secure by default.
[40:19.210 --> 40:27.990]  You're still having to handle something that you're projecting and inflating, in some cases, all of this value on.
[40:27.990 --> 40:46.470]  And that hash, that token, or that cryptographic data needs itself to be handled very, very carefully, much in the same way you would handle highly valuable precious metals or something else.
[40:46.470 --> 40:48.890]  It's just... it's in data.
[40:48.890 --> 41:04.950]  And what we have to remind everyone is that we haven't really sorted those cardinal things, those basic things, the foundational security of information that wants to be free, in my air quotes.
[41:06.610 --> 41:14.970]  You can't just assume that that's solved or that because something uses cryptography, your handling of it isn't going to be prone to disaster.
[41:14.970 --> 41:23.130]  But, Kyle, if you wait for it to be sorted or solved, you're going to miss out on the opportunity to make a ton of money from people who don't know what they're doing.
[41:23.430 --> 41:25.810]  And I think that's what's happening right now.
[41:25.910 --> 41:47.630]  But on that note, all seriousness now, if you want to support WBAI by getting a WBAI NFT for $1 million of the call letters, perfectly framed, on a 8.5 by 11 sheet of paper, you will own that NFT for $1 million.
[41:48.190 --> 41:49.890]  No one else can say they own it.
[41:50.550 --> 41:52.150]  Sure, people will be able to copy it.
[41:52.230 --> 41:53.030]  They'll be able to print it.
[41:53.090 --> 41:54.090]  They'll be able to take pictures of it.
[41:54.170 --> 42:04.410]  But you will be the person that owns the certificate for that WBAI portrait of the call letters on an 8.5 by 11 piece of paper.
[42:05.270 --> 42:10.390]  Yeah, and I think, you know, that's a good example of what NFTs could be used for.
[42:10.550 --> 42:24.510]  And if you have a million dollars burning a hole in your pocket and this makes you happy, this kind of donation, 212-209-2950, give a call to that number right now or go to give2wbai.org, give the number to wbai.org.
[42:25.470 --> 42:40.010]  And if you don't have that kind of cash on you, then whatever you can spare, and maybe something more traditional, like, you know, a shirt or a book or a CD or, you know, those things that us traditionalists value and collect.
[42:40.290 --> 42:45.290]  We have plenty of those things to give you as a thank you for your support of this amazing radio station.
[42:45.290 --> 43:00.650]  This amazing radio station that allows us to broadcast the kinds of things we talk about week after week and so many other people, so many other subjects and topics, some of which will drive you crazy, some of which will draw you in.
[43:01.330 --> 43:02.830]  All of it will make you think.
[43:02.970 --> 43:04.230]  That is the promise.
[43:04.350 --> 43:08.610]  And that's what we've been doing since 1960 at 99.5 FM in New York City.
[43:08.610 --> 43:20.030]  So again, 212-209-2950, give to wbai.org to keep this non-commercial station in the middle of the FM dial in the middle of Manhattan in New York City.
[43:20.070 --> 43:21.050]  That's where our transmitter is.
[43:21.430 --> 43:22.270]  It's incredible.
[43:22.270 --> 43:23.990]  It's fantasy, but it's real.
[43:24.450 --> 43:27.570]  This is the real fantasy that actually exists.
[43:28.030 --> 43:31.070]  And I'm so honored to be a part of it.
[43:31.150 --> 43:41.590]  And I'm honored to be a part of this whole production that we do week after week, but also something that is just, you know, has such tradition to it in the New York radio scene.
[43:42.090 --> 43:46.970]  Unlike every other radio station that exists in New York, we have survived the longest.
[43:46.970 --> 43:47.910]  We really have.
[43:48.390 --> 43:55.950]  We have been doing something in this realm, non-commercial, alternative, thought-provoking radio.
[43:56.230 --> 44:09.350]  We've been doing it since the beginning, when the radio station was donated to a very suspicious group of people at the Pacifica Foundation who couldn't believe somebody was donating a full-power FM radio station to them.
[44:09.590 --> 44:14.370]  Took several phone calls for them to be believed in the end.
[44:14.970 --> 44:21.610]  So, again, please give a call and support WBAI so that we can continue doing what we're doing.
[44:21.750 --> 44:24.370]  And some of the things that we're doing, kind of exciting.
[44:24.370 --> 44:30.990]  You may know that there's going to be a January 6th commission hearing in primetime tomorrow.
[44:31.290 --> 44:32.670]  Yeah, that's never happened before.
[44:33.290 --> 44:37.770]  Starting at 8 o'clock, we're going to be broadcasting it live right here on WBAI.
[44:37.870 --> 44:41.510]  I think we're the only station, radio station, doing that, if I'm not mistaken.
[44:42.150 --> 44:50.710]  And not only that, next week, I believe on Monday, Wednesday, and Thursday, we're going to be broadcasting daytime hearings, I think from 10 to 2.
[44:51.490 --> 44:58.330]  And in two weeks, two weeks from tomorrow, there will be another evening session of the January 6th commission.
[44:58.730 --> 45:02.730]  Everybody's going to be talking about this, and it's going to be historical and fascinating.
[45:03.410 --> 45:10.310]  And it's just one of the many things we do here at WBAI in the course of a broadcast day or a broadcast week.
[45:10.770 --> 45:12.010]  It's truly fascinating.
[45:12.990 --> 45:22.330]  Again, our email address for people who want to write to us, OTH at 2600.com, OTH at 2600.com.
[45:22.470 --> 45:27.850]  We got this listener comment earlier this week.
[45:28.410 --> 45:34.670]  I remember you lamenting on your show that it doesn't exist, but it does exist.
[45:34.890 --> 45:41.010]  And of course, what this person is referring to is something that I coined a phrase for called Bird Shazam.
[45:41.190 --> 45:45.130]  And you know what Shazam is, where you can identify music by holding your phone up.
[45:45.330 --> 45:48.510]  And I wanted to be able to identify birds with the same thing.
[45:48.590 --> 45:49.850]  And this person says it exists.
[45:50.190 --> 45:52.970]  Yeah, I got it today on the recommendation of a neighbor.
[45:53.150 --> 45:54.730]  It's called Picture Bird.
[45:55.610 --> 45:56.390]  Picture Bird.
[45:57.070 --> 46:01.330]  Okay, I like my name better because, you know, it's...
[46:01.330 --> 46:02.690]  I don't know where the picture comes from.
[46:03.250 --> 46:06.510]  One can identify birds, okay, by photo or song.
[46:06.510 --> 46:08.970]  So it's two things I can do there.
[46:10.530 --> 46:12.130]  I've tried it a couple of times.
[46:12.250 --> 46:12.870]  It seems to work.
[46:13.230 --> 46:16.790]  I'm a classical musician and rather finicky about all sounds.
[46:16.990 --> 46:18.990]  But so far, so good.
[46:19.350 --> 46:20.870]  I've been a fan for many decades.
[46:21.050 --> 46:22.410]  Thanks for all the years of great radio.
[46:22.710 --> 46:23.290]  You guys are great.
[46:23.430 --> 46:23.970]  Thank you, David.
[46:24.230 --> 46:26.810]  David from the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra.
[46:27.890 --> 46:29.370]  That letter made my day.
[46:29.530 --> 46:31.010]  The Baltimore Symphony Orchestra.
[46:31.010 --> 46:35.790]  As if you guys aren't busy enough, you know, doing symphonies and whatnot.
[46:36.210 --> 46:37.230]  You listen to us.
[46:37.370 --> 46:38.470]  I'm just amazed by that.
[46:38.570 --> 46:39.430]  You never know who's out there.
[46:39.570 --> 46:40.590]  You never know who's out there.
[46:40.710 --> 46:42.210]  And Bird Shazam exists.
[46:43.130 --> 46:43.570]  Somewhat.
[46:44.310 --> 46:44.590]  Yeah.
[46:45.710 --> 46:46.410]  Picture Bird.
[46:46.690 --> 46:48.470]  Can Insect Shazam be far behind?
[46:49.430 --> 46:50.210]  Maybe, yeah.
[46:50.230 --> 46:52.090]  They make plenty of noise.
[46:52.310 --> 46:52.530]  Uh-huh.
[46:52.970 --> 47:04.690]  I'd like to have language Shazam, where basically you hold the phone up and you don't know what language you're either hearing on the radio or that you're overhearing on a subway, and it'll tell you, oh, this is Midwestern English.
[47:04.810 --> 47:10.730]  Oh, because that's an incredibly polite thing to do as you're just walking around the world in public and just walking up to people.
[47:11.050 --> 47:12.770]  Look, it doesn't, Kyle, it doesn't matter anymore.
[47:12.770 --> 47:17.710]  I think politeness has been left behind three stations ago, and I don't think we're coming back.
[47:17.870 --> 47:19.030]  Okay, okay, fair point.
[47:19.330 --> 47:23.010]  Hey, New York passed the first electronics right-to-repair law.
[47:23.010 --> 47:26.970]  After a multi-year battle, New York has become the first state in the country.
[47:27.050 --> 47:28.290]  We're doing that a lot lately.
[47:28.290 --> 47:33.290]  The first state in the country, you know, levels of gun control and all sorts of other things.
[47:33.730 --> 47:36.070]  Okay, you know, maybe we're finally getting somewhere.
[47:36.590 --> 47:45.770]  New York has become the first state in the country to pass an electronics right-to-repair law, which is an historic win for consumers and independent repair shops across the United States, not just in New York.
[47:46.510 --> 47:53.290]  The move has the potential to seismically shift the power balance between consumers and electronics manufacturers.
[47:53.870 --> 47:55.270]  That's according to this story from Vice.
[47:55.270 --> 48:01.570]  The bill overwhelmingly passed the state Senate on Wednesday.
[48:01.950 --> 48:05.710]  I don't know if it's this Wednesday or last Wednesday, by a vote of 59 to 4.
[48:06.390 --> 48:13.990]  I guess it was last Wednesday, because then it passed the Assembly Friday afternoon by a vote of 145 to 1 jerk.
[48:14.630 --> 48:15.930]  Got to find out who that was.
[48:16.490 --> 48:19.530]  It will now go to Governor Kathy Hochul for final passage.
[48:19.530 --> 48:31.070]  It's the bill's most expansive consumer rights legislation to pass in the United States in recent memory and is the result of countless hours of grassroots campaigning from consumers and consumer rights groups.
[48:31.230 --> 48:31.590]  And you know what?
[48:31.650 --> 48:35.130]  She signed a bunch of bills yesterday, I believe, so maybe she signed this one.
[48:36.070 --> 48:38.170]  We'll look into that and see if that's true.
[48:38.170 --> 48:43.510]  I'm a really ecstatic, enormous fan of this.
[48:44.270 --> 48:52.190]  And just in hearing you say that, I was imagining, as you said, the rest of the world, the rest of the country as well.
[48:52.610 --> 49:18.770]  That's so true, because the city and the state of New York itself could lend expertise and lead the way in supporting people around the country that are trying to fix things that might seek out the kinds of repair shops and places that emerge around this kind of law and protections.
[49:19.350 --> 49:28.190]  That could create a thriving economy in repair and all the equipment and things that support that.
[49:28.390 --> 49:29.930]  And it just could be very, very good.
[49:29.930 --> 49:39.230]  People getting things repaired, keeping things out of the waste systems, and New York's setting the stage for that.
[49:39.390 --> 49:39.790]  Yeah.
[49:40.050 --> 49:41.410]  And it'll put the pressure on other places.
[49:41.710 --> 49:48.290]  This is something we're definitely going to be focusing on at the HOP conference in July and the hacker world in general.
[49:49.090 --> 50:03.030]  It means so much to be able to fix your own stuff, to be able to know how the technology that you've invested in, that you've bought, how it works, how it can be changed, how it can be better suited for your purposes.
[50:03.490 --> 50:04.630]  It's really, really important.
[50:05.670 --> 50:07.210]  Save up for that...
[50:07.750 --> 50:09.770]  Get that microscope money saved up.
[50:09.910 --> 50:10.190]  Go ahead, Rob.
[50:10.890 --> 50:11.330]  Absolutely.
[50:11.690 --> 50:20.010]  I remember growing up, my house had some very old appliances, which when you opened up the backs of them, came with little schematics inside that showed you how to fix them.
[50:20.210 --> 50:23.130]  The TV had a schematic inside of how it worked.
[50:23.130 --> 50:25.350]  And I thought something was lost with that era.
[50:25.350 --> 50:27.370]  And it's nice to think that we're getting something like that back.
[50:27.490 --> 50:29.730]  Hey, we have to continue this conversation over time.
[50:29.990 --> 50:40.030]  Join us on YouTube, channel 2600, or follow the link that is on the top of the 2600.com webpage right now at this very moment.
[50:41.450 --> 50:46.570]  And we will see you again next week on WBAI.
[50:46.750 --> 50:48.970]  Remember, OTH at 2600.com.
[50:49.270 --> 50:49.970]  Happy Pride.
[50:50.970 --> 51:17.780]  My time goes so slow And I don't know how the show will end All my feelings Emotion I pretend So let's get out of this life I'm afraid and alone Paralyzed In the purple zone.
[52:20.540 --> 52:27.680]  For the fleeting moments of beauty, you blinked, then they were gone.
[52:28.880 --> 52:35.320]  Now you're sitting there wondering, just where it all went from.
[52:36.360 --> 52:40.020]  No glory, no glamour, too many confusions.
[52:40.020 --> 52:42.980]  Coloring all my delusions.
[52:44.880 --> 52:48.400]  Paralyzed in the purple zone.
[52:51.920 --> 52:57.840]  One day you'll awake from your sleep of the dead.
[52:59.770 --> 53:02.040]  Kick out the strangers.
[53:03.590 --> 53:06.600]  Sleep in your bed to cry out.
[53:06.780 --> 53:09.680]  Let's get out of this life.
[53:09.680 --> 53:13.040]  I'm afraid and alone.
[53:14.960 --> 53:18.620]  Paralyzed in the purple zone.
[53:21.740 --> 53:24.800]  Let's get out of this life.
[53:25.920 --> 53:28.180]  I'm afraid and alone.
[53:30.660 --> 53:33.720]  Paralyzed in the purple zone.
[55:03.180 --> 55:05.420]  Your party is not answering.
[55:05.820 --> 55:06.920]  Please try your call later.
[55:07.200 --> 55:09.800]  We're sorry, but your call will now be disconnected.
[55:10.680 --> 55:11.380]  0718.
[55:11.380 --> 55:11.700]  So cool.
[55:11.840 --> 55:11.940]  Go away.
[00:00.000 --> 00:02.420]  And welcome everybody on YouTube.
[00:02.420 --> 00:09.400]  Here we are off the hook overtime with me, Emanuel, Kyle over there.
[00:09.820 --> 00:10.900]  Hello, Emanuel.
[00:11.160 --> 00:13.860]  We have Rob and Gila in Skype.
[00:13.860 --> 00:14.100]  Hello.
[00:15.480 --> 00:16.000]  Hi.
[00:16.620 --> 00:18.080]  And you know, we forgot to call Alex.
[00:18.300 --> 00:18.520]  What?
[00:19.240 --> 00:21.460]  Oh, boy, the whole show went by.
[00:22.080 --> 00:27.000]  No, actually, Alex has prior engagements, things to do that are more important than hanging out with us.
[00:27.700 --> 00:28.960]  And we understand that.
[00:29.040 --> 00:30.040]  We understand that perfectly well.
[00:31.180 --> 00:32.940]  Good discussion, and go ahead.
[00:33.280 --> 00:37.220]  No, I was just going to add that that allows us to speak with the callers.
[00:37.360 --> 00:37.900]  It does.
[00:38.080 --> 00:38.560]  Isn't that something?
[00:38.640 --> 00:43.940]  And amongst ourselves more, if there are more things that we want to say, right to repair, we left off with.
[00:45.200 --> 00:50.240]  Oh, yes, I was breathlessly grousing about that.
[00:50.440 --> 00:51.440]  As well you should.
[00:51.560 --> 00:58.380]  I mean, we've been fighting for this for God knows how long, and it's good to see some progress being made.
[00:58.660 --> 00:59.460]  You know, it's one state.
[01:00.020 --> 01:00.960]  It's the beginning.
[01:01.180 --> 01:03.900]  But hopefully it'll end in victory for everybody.
[01:04.280 --> 01:05.900]  There's lots of stuff with electronics.
[01:06.340 --> 01:14.380]  That's one thing that we can agree with farmers throughout the country on, is the right to repair equipment that you own.
[01:14.520 --> 01:15.820]  So let's start there.
[01:17.600 --> 01:20.680]  Okay, speaking of equipment that you own, Tesla...
[01:20.680 --> 01:22.580]  Well, we don't own Teslas, but some people do.
[01:23.280 --> 01:27.220]  And they have issues now with theft.
[01:28.180 --> 01:29.840]  And you'll never guess why.
[01:30.580 --> 01:36.360]  It has to do with the new electronic way of doing things.
[01:36.380 --> 01:40.340]  Because keys, for some reason, didn't do the job well enough.
[01:41.040 --> 01:47.860]  Last year, Tesla issued an update that made its vehicles easier to start after being unlocked with their NFC key cards.
[01:48.200 --> 01:53.460]  And now, a researcher has shown how the feature can be exploited to steal cars.
[01:53.880 --> 02:02.040]  Yeah, for years, drivers who used their Tesla NFC key card to unlock their cars had to place the card on the center console to begin driving.
[02:03.120 --> 02:04.900]  What, was that too difficult for people?
[02:05.020 --> 02:06.760]  To place your card on the center console?
[02:06.860 --> 02:07.240]  Okay, fine.
[02:07.240 --> 02:19.340]  Following the update, which was reported on Ars Technica last year, drivers could operate their cars immediately after unlocking them with the card.
[02:19.480 --> 02:22.720]  The NFC is one of three means for unlocking a Tesla.
[02:22.880 --> 02:25.200]  A key fob and a phone app are the other two.
[02:26.140 --> 02:30.020]  So it's one of those three is how you unlock your car.
[02:31.760 --> 02:38.100]  Now, Martin Herford, a security researcher in Austria, quickly noticed something odd about the new feature.
[02:38.240 --> 02:54.120]  Not only did it allow the car to automatically start within 130 seconds of being unlocked with the NFC card, but it also put the car in a state to accept entirely new keys with no authentication required and zero indication given by the in-card display.
[02:54.120 --> 02:55.520]  Who thinks up these things?
[02:55.700 --> 02:59.980]  The authorization given in the 132nd interval is too general.
[03:00.340 --> 03:04.640]  It's not only for drive, Herford said in an online interview.
[03:04.780 --> 03:12.440]  This timer has been introduced by Tesla in order to make the use of the NFC card as a primary means of using the car more convenient.
[03:13.080 --> 03:20.120]  What should happen is that the car can be started and driven without the user having to use the key card a second time.
[03:21.700 --> 03:30.480]  The problem within the 132nd period, not only the driving of the car is authorized, but also the enrolling of a new key.
[03:31.080 --> 03:31.180]  All right.
[03:31.260 --> 03:35.100]  So people, they want it to be more convenient to start their car.
[03:35.240 --> 03:38.260]  And now they don't want just anybody to start their car.
[03:38.480 --> 03:39.320]  I mean, which is it?
[03:39.420 --> 03:40.080]  Come on, people.
[03:42.360 --> 03:59.040]  So, uh, so basically if you're around, uh, a car that has, um, just been unlocked, you have 130 seconds to enroll your key in their car, and then you'll be able to steal their car in the future.
[04:00.020 --> 04:00.560]  Yeah.
[04:00.960 --> 04:12.600]  A malicious version, um, of this, uh, app that, uh, was designed for proof of concept purposes shows just how easy it is for thieves to surreptitiously enroll their own key during the 132nd interval.
[04:13.240 --> 04:21.820]  Um, the, uh, attacker then uses the app to exchange, uh, VC sec messages that enroll the new key.
[04:22.080 --> 04:31.340]  Uh, all that's required is to be within range of the car during the crucial 132nd window of it being unlocked with an NFC card.
[04:31.620 --> 04:45.540]  If a vehicle owner normally uses the phone app to unlock the car, by far the most common unlocking method for Tesla's, the attacker can force the use of the NFC card by using a signal jammer to block the BLE frequency used by Tesla's phone as a key app.
[04:47.980 --> 04:48.460]  Wow.
[04:48.820 --> 05:10.040]  I mean, it's, um, I don't want to say you get what you deserve, but boy, you know, if, if you, um, have such poor security and, um, uh, you know, are, are, are basically using the newest technological gizmo just to start a car, um, and opening up the door for all kinds of,
[05:10.160 --> 05:12.160]  uh, of, uh, of compromising.
[05:13.120 --> 05:14.500]  I mean, who else can you blame?
[05:15.420 --> 05:15.740]  Seriously.
[05:15.980 --> 05:19.060]  And I wonder, you know, um, I'll never get within a mile of a Tesla, I'm sure.
[05:19.160 --> 05:23.380]  But if I did have a Tesla, would I have the option to just use a key?
[05:23.560 --> 05:24.800]  I don't think I have that option.
[05:24.880 --> 05:26.640]  In fact, many cars, I don't think you have that option anymore.
[05:26.800 --> 05:27.000]  Right, Kyle?
[05:27.160 --> 05:28.260]  You're, you're, you're the car expert here.
[05:28.260 --> 05:30.440]  Well, no expert by any means.
[05:30.600 --> 05:36.540]  I mean, I've, I've, I could, you know, turn a, a, a wrench around, you know, I know, uh, More than any of us can do.
[05:36.640 --> 05:40.280]  Yeah, I know the, the front end from the bumper end and the, yeah.
[05:40.740 --> 05:41.040]  Mm-hmm.
[05:41.360 --> 05:48.800]  But, uh, I guess, I mean, I remember we rented a car, we were having all kinds of stuff with that key fob, there's all kinds of...
[05:48.800 --> 05:49.480]  That was funny.
[05:49.600 --> 06:00.960]  Remember, we were, we were realizing that if you, it was a minivan, that if you were standing close to it when you, when you locked it, someone could open the back door even though you locked it because it assumed that you still wanted access to the door,
[06:01.160 --> 06:04.980]  but it, it wouldn't be able to tell the difference between you and somebody sneaking up on you.
[06:05.140 --> 06:06.460]  And there was no alternative.
[06:06.700 --> 06:06.840]  No.
[06:06.960 --> 06:07.080]  Right?
[06:07.120 --> 06:13.740]  That we couldn't have gone with like a valet key or like, I don't even know if it had a proper, uh, place to insert a key.
[06:13.860 --> 06:21.380]  And there was no way to check if it was locked because you're always standing next to it to check if it was locked and it was always unlocked because it thought you wanted access since you were standing right next to it.
[06:21.380 --> 06:32.000]  You had to go put the key fob in, in, in, you know, another place and then come back and then check to see if the door was locked and then walk over to where you left the key fob and hope that was still there.
[06:32.620 --> 06:33.120]  You know what?
[06:33.140 --> 06:37.600]  I think it might've had a, it might've had a door key and then no ignition.
[06:37.860 --> 06:38.120]  Seriously.
[06:38.260 --> 06:39.040]  What is wrong with keys?
[06:39.320 --> 06:41.920]  Why are, are, are we so hard on keys?
[06:42.160 --> 06:42.840]  I can't remember.
[06:43.260 --> 06:44.500]  I mean, yeah, you can duplicate keys.
[06:44.640 --> 06:45.200]  I know that.
[06:45.360 --> 06:50.900]  I know lots of, uh, you know, locksmiths and lock pickers that delight in this kind of thing, but it takes skill.
[06:51.120 --> 06:51.900]  It takes time.
[06:52.320 --> 06:55.220]  And this, it takes, you know, a bit of a compromise.
[06:55.640 --> 06:56.220]  Yes, Rob, go ahead.
[06:57.100 --> 06:57.340]  Yeah.
[06:57.460 --> 07:13.620]  I mean, ever, ever since cars basically became computers with wheels, uh, all of us in the, in the computer world to know how, how routine it is for a new security vulnerabilities to pop up in, uh, say a computer operating system, you know, some file that hasn't been touched for years,
[07:13.800 --> 07:16.740]  uh, suddenly someone finds a flaw in it that can let people do whatever.
[07:16.740 --> 07:19.340]  And that flaw is found and that flaw is fixed.
[07:19.520 --> 07:22.080]  And then there, another one pops up and this is a constant thing.
[07:22.440 --> 07:33.860]  And now that the computer code and the computer hardware in a car, um, are, are powerful enough to actually do physical things like start the car, unlock the doors.
[07:34.200 --> 07:41.560]  Um, those, those, uh, those vulnerabilities and, uh, these, you know, millions of lines of code are going to have real world consequences.
[07:42.360 --> 07:45.160]  And yeah, that's, that's a, that's a thing that's going to happen.
[07:45.420 --> 07:47.160]  A key is a very simple form of security.
[07:47.200 --> 07:50.240]  It's a physical thing you have that fits a physical thing in the car.
[07:50.740 --> 08:10.980]  This is that classic thing of like, if you know how it works, you can take advantage of various stages of, uh, what little or, um, what resembles security, you know, along the, uh, the function or the life cycle of whatever system this is.
[08:11.120 --> 08:18.320]  And it just, it's, uh, it's that thing, or it just took a little bit of know-how.
[08:18.480 --> 08:25.840]  And I mean, once you lay it out as that article described, you could build something, uh, that can deal with some of the distance.
[08:26.060 --> 08:48.840]  You could build something that, um, uh, uh, also, um, while communicating at distance can maybe automate the generation of a couple, um, uh, physical or, um, cue up, uh, some, um, material that is prepared to be flashed on some, some like hardware fobs.
[08:48.920 --> 08:53.940]  You could really automate and, and build this into like a suitcase or a purse or something.
[08:55.880 --> 08:58.960]  In scope, though, you have to understand the system.
[08:59.120 --> 09:04.260]  You got to be able to break it down and figure out what you're actually trying to exploit and build along that process.
[09:04.560 --> 09:06.420]  And then you solve those problems.
[09:06.420 --> 09:07.680]  And here we go.
[09:07.680 --> 09:24.260]  We have, uh, uh, a proof of concept where they're saying, yes, any app could do this, but you could soup up a phone running the app with all kinds of other stuff to turn this into a, uh, a real, um, mess of, of, of a vulnerability on all kinds of parking lots.
[09:24.440 --> 09:29.240]  Well, I think it's a mess right now because, um, okay, let's say this, this app gets out right now.
[09:29.380 --> 09:35.440]  It's a proof of concept, but it could easily be developed by somebody with ulterior motives or just sneaky motives.
[09:36.040 --> 09:36.840]  Um, okay.
[09:36.900 --> 09:37.320]  What do you do?
[09:37.500 --> 09:38.240]  How do you stop it?
[09:38.360 --> 09:39.680]  You can't turn it off.
[09:39.860 --> 09:45.000]  Can you, can, can you turn off that particular, um, a way of unlocking a car in all Teslas?
[09:45.660 --> 09:54.700]  I think the way it was designed, you can't, you know, I'd like, you know, when you design a system, there should always be a way to disable the new features and go back to the old features.
[09:54.700 --> 10:05.400]  If something happens that makes them a vulnerability, you know, and in, in, in the perfect world, I would say, you know, turn that off, go back to using a key to really figure it out, except you don't have a key.
[10:05.720 --> 10:10.660]  All you have are electronic means and they all have their own methods of, of being compromised.
[10:12.880 --> 10:17.780]  The other thing that's missing is that it's not multi, um, factor, right?
[10:17.900 --> 10:27.280]  Like sometimes you'd have a physical key and then maybe it's the electronic and, um, uh, immobilizing technology that's in the remote controller.
[10:27.620 --> 10:33.060]  Um, it sounds like they just went all the way in one direction where it's all NFC.
[10:33.320 --> 10:44.760]  It's all software based in an app that is by the way, on a mobile computer, that's imminently like accessible and, and, uh, able to communicate so on and so forth.
[10:44.980 --> 10:52.400]  So, uh, really a tall order, uh, from the outset, I think this, this whole design was, but they wanted features.
[10:52.720 --> 10:54.020]  Oh, they got features now.
[10:54.220 --> 10:54.560]  Go ahead, Rob.
[10:55.580 --> 10:56.060]  Absolutely.
[10:56.400 --> 11:04.480]  And, uh, the, the other thing about this is the, um, the sheer fact of like, yes, uh, locks can be picked, locks can be bypassed.
[11:04.580 --> 11:19.600]  There are enthusiast groups and hackers and tinkerers and lock pickers who, um, have devoted, uh, have devoted their, their hobbies and, uh, chunks of their expertise to, uh, seeing how you can get past the most badass locks on the market.
[11:19.700 --> 11:23.520]  And you can use those same skills to develop even more badass locks.
[11:23.900 --> 11:27.480]  But, um, I think, I think this is just anecdotal.
[11:27.680 --> 11:41.440]  Um, I don't have numbers in front of me, but I think, uh, most of the people who know the most about locks, if you give them the choice between a physical lock and an electronic one, like in the Teslas, I think they'll go for the physical one all the time,
[11:41.480 --> 11:43.960]  just because you know where you are with one of those.
[11:44.040 --> 11:48.720]  And it is not a closed piece of software that you have no idea what's going to go wrong with it next.
[11:48.940 --> 11:51.980]  And if it's compromised, you can change it, you know, just get a new one.
[11:52.740 --> 11:53.580]  You can do that.
[11:54.160 --> 11:54.520]  Absolutely.
[11:55.060 --> 12:08.420]  But yeah, it, it takes, you know, unless you're really an expert, it, um, it, it does tend to take time, a little bit of time, at least, um, as opposed to just being able to walk past a vehicle, unlock it and, you know, be authorized immediately.
[12:08.800 --> 12:10.340]  Uh, it's just poorly thought out.
[12:10.500 --> 12:11.400]  Anyway, enough about that.
[12:11.540 --> 12:13.840]  Um, here's something, uh, else is interesting.
[12:14.120 --> 12:18.260]  Um, Russian ministry website hacked to display glory to Ukraine message.
[12:19.300 --> 12:20.540]  That's pretty much all you need.
[12:20.620 --> 12:31.980]  The Russian ministry of construction, housing, and utilities website, uh, which if you want to visit it, uh, if you can visit it, M I N S T R O Y R F.gov.ru.
[12:32.340 --> 12:39.620]  It was hacked over the weekend when searched on the internet, the site's address led to a sign in the Ukrainian language at red glory to Ukraine.
[12:39.820 --> 12:45.340]  The hackers also demanded ransom to, uh, prevent the leaking of personal data of the site users.
[12:46.000 --> 12:54.780]  Um, according to a Russian state news outlet known as RIA, a ministry representative confirmed that the site was offline, but user data was not compromised.
[12:54.780 --> 12:55.920]  Well, we'll see about that.
[12:56.320 --> 13:04.700]  Don't recommend paying a ransom, but, uh, well, it's a perfectly valid, uh, form of speech and word got out hopefully.
[13:04.740 --> 13:13.380]  And here's a headline, uh, or just the opening, opening paragraph of a story that, um, it's one of these things you can't believe you're reading it.
[13:13.920 --> 13:21.940]  Ransomware gang lock bit claims to have hacked security vendor Mandiant stealing more than 350,000 files and threatening to leak them online.
[13:22.440 --> 13:32.980]  Mandiant says it has found no evidence of a breach and believes lock bit may be striking back after Mandiant released an investigation into its relationship to Russian cyber gang evil corp.
[13:33.980 --> 13:35.400]  Yeah, this is not Mr. Robot.
[13:35.520 --> 13:36.020]  This is real.
[13:36.620 --> 13:38.080]  These are real groups.
[13:38.260 --> 13:40.440]  And, uh, there's a lot of drama going on.
[13:40.720 --> 13:45.640]  The claims emerged, uh, recently as lock bit published two files to his victim blog.
[13:46.100 --> 13:47.460]  It's victim blog.
[13:47.660 --> 13:54.920]  How nice to give their victims a blog on the, on the dark web, which it claims stem from an attack on Mandiant.
[13:55.360 --> 13:57.740]  Uh, the group says it has more data to release.
[13:57.920 --> 13:59.660]  All available information will be published.
[13:59.820 --> 14:00.880]  Big exclamation point.
[14:01.180 --> 14:11.220]  It's a blog post reads, it is not known if a ransom demand has been made to Mandiant, but a countdown timer on the post appears to indicate that the deadline for the release of information is approaching.
[14:11.300 --> 14:13.280]  You think that's what a countdown would indicate.
[14:13.920 --> 14:14.060]  Yes.
[14:14.240 --> 14:14.460]  Thank you.
[14:14.500 --> 14:17.840]  Tech monitor for, uh, uh, for that, uh, interesting story.
[14:19.140 --> 14:28.480]  Uh, this just makes me want to fire up, uh, uh, uh, farm of honey pots for all these thirsty ransomware hackers out there.
[14:28.560 --> 14:37.920]  You know, the people at evil corp though are, are, are, are fun to hang out with because they've, they've seen Mr. Robot and, uh, they, they probably wear hooded sweatshirts and, uh, know what they're doing.
[14:38.580 --> 14:39.380]  That's what I think.
[14:41.020 --> 14:43.000]  It's, uh, just a, a fun world out there.
[14:43.160 --> 14:46.100]  Hey, we should give out the phone number since we are open for listener calls.
[14:46.320 --> 14:46.520]  Yeah, yeah.
[14:46.640 --> 14:47.400]  I'm ready to go for that.
[14:47.500 --> 14:48.240]  I was, uh, I was ready.
[14:48.360 --> 14:48.640]  I got my hand.
[14:48.640 --> 14:49.960]  I'm giving out the phone number if you let me do it.
[14:50.000 --> 14:50.420]  We'll hurry it up.
[14:50.440 --> 14:51.020]  I'm trying.
[14:51.180 --> 14:51.800]  They're trying to call.
[14:52.060 --> 14:52.340]  God damn it.
[14:52.380 --> 14:53.400]  Will you let me say the number?
[14:54.100 --> 14:55.680]  It's going to ring before I even get to say it.
[14:56.660 --> 14:58.760]  802-321-4225.
[14:59.160 --> 15:04.180]  That's 802-321-HACK as our telephone number.
[15:04.260 --> 15:05.320]  Of course, that's country code one.
[15:05.460 --> 15:06.640]  If you're outside the United States.
[15:08.000 --> 15:09.700]  Any, uh, particular topic tonight?
[15:09.780 --> 15:10.540]  Are we, we talking?
[15:10.900 --> 15:12.320]  No, we always leave it open to the listeners.
[15:12.840 --> 15:13.680]  This is wide open.
[15:13.860 --> 15:15.740]  Or anything we've already touched upon.
[15:15.920 --> 15:17.140]  We did talk about a lot of things.
[15:18.280 --> 15:19.380]  First call has arrived.
[15:19.520 --> 15:20.620]  All right, we have a first call already.
[15:20.800 --> 15:22.660]  So, uh, let's, uh, let's see who's out there.
[15:22.980 --> 15:24.240]  I think I know this.
[15:24.440 --> 15:25.020]  You think you do?
[15:25.100 --> 15:26.600]  Well, press the button and then we'll all know.
[15:26.680 --> 15:26.800]  Yeah.
[15:26.980 --> 15:27.400]  Good evening.
[15:27.580 --> 15:28.660]  You're on Off the Hook Overtime.
[15:28.720 --> 15:28.960]  Go ahead.
[15:30.680 --> 15:31.040]  Hi.
[15:31.420 --> 15:31.740]  Hello.
[15:31.880 --> 15:32.180]  How are you?
[15:32.280 --> 15:32.720]  It's me.
[15:34.320 --> 15:35.520]  Eleanor Elizabeth Foreman.
[15:35.620 --> 15:40.320]  You know, you don't have to give out your full name as, as on your birth certificate.
[15:41.160 --> 15:44.020]  Um, you, you, and next you'll be giving us your social security number.
[15:44.120 --> 15:48.100]  So please, that's, um... No, I'm not going to give out my social security number.
[15:48.280 --> 15:48.640]  Oh, please.
[15:48.720 --> 15:53.020]  But I listened to your show this evening and do you remember what you forgot?
[15:53.840 --> 15:55.080]  Do I remember what I forgot?
[15:55.500 --> 15:57.880]  If I remembered it, I wouldn't have forgotten it.
[15:58.100 --> 16:02.620]  I have the feeling, though, I did say I was going to do something, but I don't remember what it was.
[16:02.740 --> 16:05.820]  And I think it involved you, but I still don't remember what it was.
[16:05.900 --> 16:07.940]  I feel terrible now because I know I forgot something.
[16:08.900 --> 16:13.200]  But, you know, if somebody, if somebody had reminded me, I would have done it.
[16:13.340 --> 16:14.780]  I absolutely would have done it.
[16:14.860 --> 16:16.420]  I didn't intentionally forget it.
[16:16.800 --> 16:19.320]  But I'm sorry to you and everybody else.
[16:19.760 --> 16:21.440]  Does anyone else remember what it is you forgot?
[16:23.180 --> 16:23.600]  Anybody?
[16:23.980 --> 16:24.160]  Anybody?
[16:25.000 --> 16:27.100]  You know, Alex probably remembers, but he's not here.
[16:27.280 --> 16:29.580]  That's why I forgot, because he didn't remind me.
[16:29.680 --> 16:32.060]  I do vaguely, but I can't remember exactly what it was.
[16:32.180 --> 16:34.260]  I know we were supposed to announce or say something.
[16:34.400 --> 16:37.140]  Do something with a payphone or... No, it wasn't a payphone.
[16:37.200 --> 16:40.540]  It was something having to do with... And it's probably something that's coming up.
[16:40.560 --> 16:41.400]  Nothing to do with a payphone.
[16:41.440 --> 16:42.400]  You're going to try something.
[16:42.400 --> 16:46.220]  It's something that is like a deadline, and we can't do it next week.
[16:46.460 --> 16:46.820]  Right?
[16:46.900 --> 16:47.580]  It's too late now.
[16:48.280 --> 16:49.260]  That's what I think it is.
[16:49.320 --> 16:52.760]  It was about the transmitter fund?
[16:52.900 --> 16:53.260]  No.
[16:53.340 --> 16:56.120]  No, we can break into BAI and announce it over the years.
[16:56.340 --> 16:56.440]  No.
[16:56.800 --> 16:57.280]  Should we do that?
[16:57.400 --> 17:00.020]  You're getting a little closer, even though you're wrong.
[17:00.140 --> 17:04.140]  Should we override the radio station right now so we can announce what we forgot to do?
[17:05.420 --> 17:06.240]  We can do that.
[17:06.480 --> 17:07.960]  We have ultimate power.
[17:08.140 --> 17:15.960]  In fact, if there's another radio station you'd like us to break in on, we can break in... This little gizmo that Kyle has, we can break in on any radio station.
[17:15.960 --> 17:16.700]  It has to be FM.
[17:17.020 --> 17:17.180]  No.
[17:17.280 --> 17:23.100]  We don't have the AM version yet, but the FM, any radio station... Would you like us to speak on all radio stations at the same time?
[17:23.100 --> 17:23.780]  We can do that, too.
[17:24.000 --> 17:24.560]  No, no, no.
[17:24.560 --> 17:24.760]  No, no, no.
[17:25.020 --> 17:25.540]  Why not?
[17:25.980 --> 17:27.520]  Max... You have no sense of adventure.
[17:27.800 --> 17:28.100]  Max.
[17:28.560 --> 17:29.020]  Uh-huh.
[17:29.020 --> 17:29.420]  First.
[17:29.680 --> 17:30.160]  Max.
[17:30.400 --> 17:30.660]  Yes.
[17:30.660 --> 17:31.580]  Oh, Max at the radio station.
[17:31.580 --> 17:33.280]  Max Schmeade will come after us.
[17:33.360 --> 17:33.620]  That's true.
[17:33.740 --> 17:35.480]  Okay, so every station except BAI.
[17:36.520 --> 17:36.860]  True.
[17:37.120 --> 17:37.320]  All right.
[17:37.780 --> 17:38.460]  I'm sorry.
[17:38.500 --> 17:39.160]  What did we forget?
[17:39.280 --> 17:39.840]  What did I forget?
[17:40.060 --> 17:40.640]  It's my fault.
[17:41.220 --> 17:50.480]  You were going to thank me by name, full name, for my donation to support Off the Hook.
[17:51.780 --> 17:52.820]  Oh, that's right.
[17:52.820 --> 17:53.280]  We were.
[17:53.280 --> 17:53.280]  Sure.
[17:53.400 --> 17:53.820]  Well, you know what?
[17:53.900 --> 17:57.800]  The good news is... Scandalously, falsely, impugned.
[17:57.940 --> 17:59.380]  I did that whole speech in the middle.
[17:59.580 --> 18:10.220]  By Donald Goldmacher and Sherry Gendelman and, quote, Pacifica Safety Net, unquote.
[18:10.500 --> 18:12.580]  Let's not use such foul language, even on the internet.
[18:13.180 --> 18:17.180]  But the good news is that we can announce this next week.
[18:17.280 --> 18:20.700]  And, you know, I'm sorry, because I did that in Passion's speech about supporting BAI.
[18:20.860 --> 18:23.940]  That would have been the perfect time to talk about that as well, to mention your name.
[18:24.240 --> 18:26.420]  But we'll do it next week.
[18:26.500 --> 18:29.320]  But please, send an email before the show.
[18:29.460 --> 18:31.320]  That way, we definitely won't forget.
[18:34.520 --> 18:34.960]  Maybe.
[18:35.340 --> 18:35.680]  All right.
[18:37.100 --> 18:38.720]  If you want us not to forget.
[18:38.960 --> 19:09.140]  A good piece of news is that Pacifica's lawyer wrote a brief of a mere 16 pages, showing that those three people that they have signed up, there's no proof that any of them are members or were harmed in any way as they, you know, all these things they claim.
[19:09.520 --> 19:15.780]  And that alone means that the whole thing is, you know, valueless.
[19:15.900 --> 19:31.480]  So let us hope that sanity prevails and it's knocked out of court, but it's still going to cost $10,000 to $15,000 in lawyer's fees just for things like a 16-page brief.
[19:31.840 --> 19:32.020]  Right.
[19:32.240 --> 19:35.280]  Which is a lot briefer than 16 pages.
[19:35.400 --> 19:40.380]  Can you, if you have access, if you have access to that, can you forward us a copy?
[19:40.480 --> 19:41.760]  Because I'd love to see what they say.
[19:42.060 --> 19:42.460]  Absolutely.
[19:42.860 --> 19:43.140]  Thank you.
[19:44.080 --> 19:45.100]  Yeah, you know, this is the case.
[19:45.340 --> 19:47.700]  And that will also serve as the reminder.
[19:48.200 --> 19:48.740]  That's true.
[19:48.860 --> 19:49.020]  You're right.
[19:49.480 --> 19:55.320]  It's not just frivolous FCC complaints, but frivolous lawsuits of all sorts.
[19:55.540 --> 19:57.900]  This is something that is so common in this country.
[19:58.620 --> 20:01.440]  And someone's food has arrived, I believe, Rob and Gila.
[20:02.380 --> 20:03.700]  We haven't ordered anything.
[20:03.880 --> 20:04.720]  Well, it's interesting.
[20:04.960 --> 20:05.380]  It's here.
[20:05.580 --> 20:07.460]  Regardless of whether or not you ordered it, your doorbell just rang.
[20:08.520 --> 20:09.980]  And neither of you... Well, someone's going to feed us.
[20:09.980 --> 20:10.440]  I'm interested.
[20:10.460 --> 20:12.880]  Neither of you is making any effort to answer the doorbell.
[20:12.960 --> 20:13.080]  Wow.
[20:13.080 --> 20:14.560]  You don't have to answer that, Rob.
[20:14.560 --> 20:14.940]  Yeah, you don't have to.
[20:14.940 --> 20:15.680]  You don't have to.
[20:15.800 --> 20:20.820]  It could be the FCC or, you know, it could be... It could be all kinds.
[20:20.820 --> 20:21.820]  Do not cooperate.
[20:21.820 --> 20:22.160]  Yeah.
[20:22.220 --> 20:23.280]  Whatever you do.
[20:23.460 --> 20:23.580]  Yeah.
[20:23.580 --> 20:25.120]  You have the right to remain silent.
[20:26.200 --> 20:27.600]  Or to say whatever you want.
[20:28.000 --> 20:28.760]  Hear you now.
[20:29.700 --> 20:30.220]  But...
[20:30.220 --> 20:31.900]  So you sent Rob to the door.
[20:32.060 --> 20:39.220]  Well, if the FCC did come knocking at the radio station, you would be well advised to be very polite and cooperative.
[20:39.440 --> 20:39.920]  Oh, yeah, no.
[20:40.240 --> 20:41.160]  We always are.
[20:41.800 --> 20:41.800]  But you're on overtime.
[20:42.200 --> 20:44.060]  The FCC is a frequent visitor.
[20:44.240 --> 20:44.640]  You don't have to worry about that.
[20:44.640 --> 20:48.140]  Oh, something interesting to report about overtime.
[20:48.540 --> 20:49.600]  What about overtime?
[20:49.880 --> 20:50.680]  That's this show.
[20:51.920 --> 20:52.660]  Your show.
[20:52.880 --> 20:54.560]  This second show.
[20:54.680 --> 20:55.820]  The one we're on right now.
[20:55.920 --> 20:56.520]  Yes, this one.
[20:57.260 --> 20:57.540]  Yes.
[20:58.720 --> 21:07.520]  I opened a new tab on my browser, and I typed the word Y, and it came up with YouTube.
[21:08.520 --> 21:11.040]  And so I went to YouTube.
[21:11.420 --> 21:24.120]  And the first thing listed there was that I could put myself on the waiting list for this off-the-hook overtime that had not yet started.
[21:24.460 --> 21:36.100]  So my computer apparently knows in advance when I go there to YouTube on Wednesday night with your thing with a countdown there.
[21:36.460 --> 21:40.760]  That's what I'm going to be going for, and it makes it very convenient.
[21:41.040 --> 21:43.780]  I only had to type the letter Y.
[21:44.340 --> 21:47.360]  One day, you'll just have to look at your computer, and it'll know.
[21:48.360 --> 21:49.480]  Isn't that something?
[21:50.160 --> 22:05.700]  YouTube, television, I think they've really stepped up, worked really hard to add suggestions and make it not really bothersome, but really keenly well-suited to you.
[22:05.880 --> 22:13.720]  And it seems like we've played around with this ourselves, and lots of times it will find some interesting stuff for you based on your interest.
[22:13.800 --> 22:14.360]  Is this YouTube?
[22:14.620 --> 22:23.960]  I mean, this is just basically her typing Y into a browser, and the browser remembering through, I guess, cookies where she went last time and suggesting this.
[22:23.960 --> 22:28.120]  Not just that, but maybe this time of the week, at this time of day.
[22:28.640 --> 22:28.840]  Maybe.
[22:29.360 --> 22:29.820]  And all of that.
[22:29.820 --> 22:32.200]  Yeah, because I go to YouTube for other things, you know.
[22:32.300 --> 22:33.200]  Yeah, I'm sure you do.
[22:33.340 --> 22:42.580]  Right, but there's all this predictive stuff to really make it comfortable, just like you're sitting down at your TV, because it's like, hey, we know what you want to watch.
[22:42.940 --> 22:44.400]  Your TV doesn't do that.
[22:44.560 --> 22:49.600]  Well, Netflix knows you're going to watch this thing next, because it calculates all kinds of things.
[22:49.760 --> 22:51.180]  How do you stop that, though?
[22:51.180 --> 22:55.160]  I mean, you know, HBO Max and Netflix and all the other ones.
[22:55.200 --> 22:59.080]  If you watch a program by accident, you know, it's always there.
[22:59.200 --> 23:00.660]  I want you to go to the next episode.
[23:01.040 --> 23:13.360]  And I don't think there's any way in the app to say, stop this, or I don't want my whole household to know that I was watching this particular show on Hot Rod Racing or whatever.
[23:13.360 --> 23:14.520]  That's embarrassing to me.
[23:15.160 --> 23:20.660]  You have to log into something and find various menus in order to do that, if you can even do that.
[23:21.180 --> 23:23.600]  You know, TV didn't used to be this intrusive.
[23:23.780 --> 23:26.100]  You could watch a program and nobody would know you watched it.
[23:27.380 --> 23:29.120]  Oh, that reminds me.
[23:29.360 --> 23:34.980]  You were just talking about this Tesla problem.
[23:35.700 --> 23:46.880]  Could you give me a few words or whatever to type into my browser so I can find the article and send it to somebody who has a Tesla?
[23:47.600 --> 23:49.200]  I can give you the headline.
[23:49.420 --> 23:54.320]  If you go to give the recommendation for Google, but yeah, this is how people do it.
[23:55.460 --> 23:57.840]  I don't use Google.
[23:58.080 --> 23:59.960]  I use DuckDuckGo.
[24:00.180 --> 24:00.380]  Okay.
[24:00.440 --> 24:01.820]  Well, you should find the same story.
[24:02.880 --> 24:04.700]  Gone in 130 seconds.
[24:05.040 --> 24:08.600]  If you type that, that should find the Ars Technica news story.
[24:08.740 --> 24:09.820]  That's what we were reading from.
[24:10.020 --> 24:11.600]  Gone in 130 seconds.
[24:13.500 --> 24:13.940]  Okay.
[24:15.220 --> 24:18.320]  And it's coming up with seconds for me.
[24:21.200 --> 24:23.160]  We don't have to wait to make sure you get the story.
[24:23.440 --> 24:24.760]  Oh, it's just gone in 13 seconds.
[24:24.760 --> 24:25.300]  No, no, no.
[24:25.720 --> 24:26.440]  130 seconds.
[24:27.220 --> 24:30.460]  I entered 130, but what's coming up is...
[24:32.780 --> 24:33.720]  Well, careful now.
[24:33.900 --> 24:34.460]  That's not what I wanted.
[24:34.560 --> 24:35.660]  There might be a much better...
[24:35.660 --> 24:36.340]  Oh, okay.
[24:36.440 --> 24:37.320]  You're on the internet.
[24:37.520 --> 24:37.600]  I got it.
[24:37.940 --> 24:38.480]  Ease up.
[24:38.580 --> 24:38.960]  You got it?
[24:40.140 --> 24:40.640]  Got it.
[24:40.740 --> 24:41.260]  Okay, good.
[24:41.740 --> 24:43.160]  Well, this had a happy ending.
[24:43.200 --> 24:43.840]  But stay with us.
[24:43.940 --> 24:44.940]  Don't go away.
[24:45.300 --> 24:47.840]  You got to continue to listen because we're going to take some more calls.
[24:48.000 --> 24:48.880]  Yes, we have to take more calls.
[24:49.040 --> 24:50.600]  But we will remember next week.
[24:50.720 --> 24:51.640]  Just save the tab.
[24:51.720 --> 24:51.940]  Yes.
[24:52.080 --> 24:52.560]  Bookmark it.
[24:52.740 --> 24:56.260]  We'll remember to thank you next week.
[24:56.260 --> 24:58.800]  But please remember to remind us to remember.
[24:59.140 --> 25:03.220]  Well, I'm going to send you the 16-page brief.
[25:04.740 --> 25:06.540]  And I'll include the reminder.
[25:06.740 --> 25:07.880]  Okay, but hopefully...
[25:07.880 --> 25:08.920]  You'll be getting that today.
[25:09.100 --> 25:10.280]  Yeah, you'll send that today.
[25:10.280 --> 25:11.080]  And thank you for that.
[25:11.080 --> 25:15.240]  But that's a week before when we have to remember.
[25:15.460 --> 25:17.020]  And it's quite possible we'll forget.
[25:17.280 --> 25:20.720]  Well, put it in a folder for you next week's show.
[25:20.800 --> 25:22.420]  Do you get charged for every email you send?
[25:22.660 --> 25:23.320]  Is it expensive?
[25:23.720 --> 25:24.640]  That's one email.
[25:24.760 --> 25:25.460]  Just send us an email.
[25:25.540 --> 25:26.680]  Say, please, don't forget.
[25:28.040 --> 25:28.980]  It could happen.
[25:28.980 --> 25:29.820]  Put it in a folder.
[25:30.020 --> 25:31.400]  Do you get charged for that?
[25:32.000 --> 25:33.820]  You have to pay for every sentence.
[25:34.600 --> 25:34.960]  No.
[25:35.360 --> 25:36.520]  It could have gone that way.
[25:36.640 --> 25:40.240]  It could have gone that way if corporations had been responsible for planning the internet.
[25:40.760 --> 25:41.700]  But it didn't.
[25:44.500 --> 25:46.060]  Anyway, great hearing from you.
[25:47.040 --> 25:48.920]  We look forward to reading what you send us.
[25:49.040 --> 25:50.940]  And we will definitely thank you on the air next week.
[25:51.880 --> 25:52.640]  Thank you.
[25:52.800 --> 25:52.920]  All right.
[25:53.000 --> 25:53.260]  Take care.
[25:54.540 --> 25:55.400]  I think...
[25:55.400 --> 25:55.980]  You know what?
[25:55.980 --> 25:56.660]  I think it was...
[25:56.660 --> 25:58.020]  It's my fault, actually.
[25:58.140 --> 25:58.240]  Of course it's your fault.
[25:58.240 --> 26:05.880]  Because I was talking about the system we use taking coins and being coin-operated and the whole vending machine analogy.
[26:05.880 --> 26:06.320]  No, it's absolutely...
[26:06.320 --> 26:06.660]  Wait, what's your fault?
[26:06.660 --> 26:12.680]  It's perfectly reasonable that she could have thought that it works in that kind of way.
[26:12.680 --> 26:18.740]  You know, like that it's charged by the letter or, you know, takes other kinds of tokens and stuff.
[26:18.740 --> 26:19.360]  I don't think she really thought that.
[26:19.540 --> 26:20.680]  I don't think she really thought that.
[26:20.680 --> 26:23.740]  But we may have misled our listeners, so I just want to set the record straight on that.
[26:23.740 --> 26:25.460]  Then our job is complete if we misled anybody.
[26:25.460 --> 26:26.480]  You know what else I was thinking?
[26:26.660 --> 26:27.160]  What's that?
[26:28.420 --> 26:39.000]  I thought, when she was asking what we forgot, that what she was really getting at was that we forgot that...
[26:40.600 --> 26:41.820]  Forgot what you're going to say, didn't you?
[26:41.820 --> 26:43.200]  Rebel is in Russia right now.
[26:43.280 --> 26:44.480]  Rebel's in Russia right now.
[26:44.480 --> 26:45.440]  I forgot about that.
[26:45.460 --> 26:46.200]  Oh, my God.
[26:46.460 --> 26:47.000]  Well, wait.
[26:47.340 --> 26:51.140]  Okay, if Rebel is in Russia right now, Rebel was supposed to call us from Russia.
[26:51.340 --> 26:52.720]  Has anyone heard from him?
[26:52.860 --> 26:54.440]  Well, who would hear from him besides us?
[26:54.540 --> 26:56.440]  I mean, that's listening right now.
[26:57.020 --> 27:00.440]  Rebel, if you're out there, well, I don't know.
[27:01.260 --> 27:06.720]  Anybody who is holding Rebel right now, please let him make the phone call to Country Code 1.
[27:06.720 --> 27:08.020]  I know we're the enemy right now.
[27:08.020 --> 27:11.500]  8-0-2-3-2-1-4-2-2-5.
[27:11.740 --> 27:13.440]  8-0-2-3-2-1-HACK.
[27:14.040 --> 27:19.240]  And I know I just read the story about Glory to Ukraine, about the Russian website being hacked.
[27:19.360 --> 27:20.280]  It didn't mean anything by it.
[27:21.340 --> 27:22.160]  Rebel's a good guy.
[27:22.560 --> 27:25.600]  And yeah, we told him not to come.
[27:25.800 --> 27:26.900]  He did it anyway.
[27:27.820 --> 27:29.280]  And I hope he's okay.
[27:29.480 --> 27:30.300]  I hope we hear from him.
[27:31.320 --> 27:35.440]  And I know our listeners are leaving the phone line open to give him a chance to get in.
[27:35.920 --> 27:36.800]  Thank you for that.
[27:37.460 --> 27:40.580]  And we'll open it up in a second if he doesn't get through.
[27:40.760 --> 27:43.260]  And we'll see who else is out there.
[27:43.340 --> 27:43.620]  Yes, Rob.
[27:44.300 --> 27:55.220]  And just a shout to someone who just tweeted us at Hacker Radio Show asking, and we've gotten this question before, why have we turned off chat on our YouTube that this is going out over?
[27:55.380 --> 27:57.380]  And they say, are you scared of the people?
[27:57.380 --> 27:59.840]  And the answer to that, of course, is no, we're not.
[27:59.980 --> 28:01.900]  We just want to talk with you.
[28:02.100 --> 28:05.920]  So give us a call at 1-802-321-4225.
[28:06.320 --> 28:12.460]  So there's another thing, you know, we lost the ability to email, to talk to each other, but we want to chat everywhere.
[28:12.460 --> 28:21.200]  Every time there's a post or a story or anything, you know, video, everyone has to say something about it and chat amongst themselves.
[28:21.420 --> 28:27.180]  Look, on YouTube, right now, we are asking you literally to chat with us, to call us, okay?
[28:27.880 --> 28:30.160]  Actually, in a couple of minutes after we give Rebel a chance.
[28:30.740 --> 28:32.140]  And also, you know what?
[28:32.340 --> 28:35.780]  Underneath the YouTube thing, you can write comments there.
[28:35.880 --> 28:36.480]  Isn't that a chat?
[28:36.580 --> 28:40.260]  But now people want the thing on the right-hand side of the page, too, where they can go back and forth.
[28:40.580 --> 28:43.640]  And when you do all that, you're not participating.
[28:43.640 --> 28:48.220]  And that's the whole point, is to participate and communicate on the radio show.
[28:48.400 --> 28:51.940]  No one's going to be going back and reading the chat in future years.
[28:51.940 --> 28:57.940]  However, people will be listening to the radio show and, over time, that follows the radio show.
[28:58.100 --> 29:00.560]  And a special hello to those people.
[29:01.420 --> 29:08.860]  And I will give a shout to something we've had for many, many years, which is our IRC channel, which is on irc.2600.net.
[29:08.860 --> 29:18.580]  If you go to the channel off the hook, that's pound off the hook, on our IRC server, during the broadcast, there's usually a couple of people who are also listening to the program.
[29:18.580 --> 29:20.480]  And you can chat amongst yourselves there.
[29:20.580 --> 29:20.940]  Yeah, absolutely.
[29:21.280 --> 29:23.260]  And it is an open system, IRC.
[29:23.500 --> 29:27.200]  And like we were saying before, we want to support the open networks.
[29:27.200 --> 29:35.320]  We don't want to have to make people join in a walled garden like frigging YouTube chats, which are generally a wretched hive of scum and villainy anyway.
[29:35.380 --> 29:35.860]  It really is.
[29:35.940 --> 29:37.920]  So, you know, you can use the phone.
[29:38.120 --> 29:42.320]  And I understand, since we already have an IRC channel for the radio show, why not use that?
[29:42.380 --> 29:45.100]  Why do we need a different chat in all different platforms?
[29:45.380 --> 29:46.380]  We already have one.
[29:46.480 --> 29:47.300]  We've had it for years.
[29:47.940 --> 29:50.900]  And IRC is a perfectly valid way of communicating.
[29:51.200 --> 29:56.040]  So if you do feel the need to chat with fellow listeners, that's the place to do it.
[29:56.400 --> 29:57.200]  Makes sense.
[29:57.580 --> 30:05.360]  Other than, you know, it's just so many things happening that take away from the actual communication that we're trying to have here.
[30:05.580 --> 30:07.080]  Okay, we have not heard from Rebel.
[30:07.320 --> 30:09.280]  So we'll open up the phone lines to everybody.
[30:10.120 --> 30:14.400]  802-321-4225, 802-321-HACK, Country Code 1.
[30:14.860 --> 30:16.560]  And see who else is out there.
[30:17.300 --> 30:23.120]  And if you're in the United States, you can also get us toll-free at 833-755-2600.
[30:23.240 --> 30:25.600]  And that's thanks to our PalLucky 225.
[30:25.820 --> 30:34.680]  That is toll-free number 1-833-755-2600 to call us without it popping up on your telephone bill, if that's something you're concerned with.
[30:35.120 --> 30:39.140]  But if authorities are monitoring you, they'll still see the number pop up.
[30:39.200 --> 30:40.600]  You just won't get billed for it.
[30:41.280 --> 30:42.860]  I just feel I should let people know that.
[30:46.470 --> 30:46.830]  Absolutely.
[30:47.170 --> 30:48.550]  Have we run out of things to say?
[30:49.170 --> 30:50.030]  I have other...
[30:50.030 --> 30:51.570]  Have people run out of things to say to us?
[30:51.630 --> 30:52.310]  That's what I'm worried about.
[30:52.370 --> 30:54.130]  Well, I mean, it happens occasionally, you know?
[30:54.510 --> 30:55.570]  There's a lot going on.
[30:57.450 --> 31:01.910]  And it takes time for our words to get out there through the internet and all.
[31:02.330 --> 31:05.890]  Yeah, there is that delay onto the YouTube, so...
[31:05.890 --> 31:06.490]  Yeah.
[31:06.950 --> 31:08.850]  We're sounding pretty good at the moment.
[31:09.750 --> 31:10.370]  On YouTube.
[31:10.430 --> 31:11.190]  Well, that's your opinion.
[31:11.870 --> 31:12.270]  Yes.
[31:12.430 --> 31:13.490]  No, we really do sound good.
[31:13.670 --> 31:20.330]  Also, thank you to everybody who tweeted at us last week to let us know about the volume issues we were having.
[31:20.910 --> 31:22.270]  We do appreciate you.
[31:22.370 --> 31:24.430]  And thank you for letting us know that that was an issue.
[31:24.670 --> 31:25.830]  And, like, we saw that.
[31:25.970 --> 31:27.850]  We might not have seen it if it was in the YouTube chat.
[31:28.090 --> 31:29.010]  So, advantage Twitter.
[31:29.010 --> 31:32.390]  Yes, we took our mixer to the bar.
[31:32.750 --> 31:33.970]  And that's another thing.
[31:33.970 --> 31:34.310]  Twitter.
[31:34.550 --> 31:35.490]  We bought it a drink.
[31:35.810 --> 31:36.070]  Wow.
[31:36.170 --> 31:37.270]  We can chat on Twitter.
[31:37.530 --> 31:38.290]  So many chats.
[31:38.570 --> 31:39.370]  We're always chatting.
[31:39.770 --> 31:40.810]  We're never talking.
[31:40.950 --> 31:41.590]  We're just chatting.
[31:42.070 --> 31:43.210]  Chatting past each other.
[31:43.550 --> 31:45.170]  You know, I'm complaining a lot.
[31:45.650 --> 31:50.210]  I'm going to sit back and just sip this iced tea and watch the world go by.
[31:50.610 --> 31:50.810]  Yeah.
[31:52.130 --> 31:52.610]  Imagine.
[31:53.650 --> 31:54.130]  Imagine.
[31:54.370 --> 31:58.130]  I mean, you don't necessarily...
[31:58.130 --> 31:59.570]  Get away from there!
[32:00.370 --> 32:01.750]  I thought you were going to stop.
[32:02.470 --> 32:03.870]  They were walking across the lawn.
[32:04.030 --> 32:09.390]  I was just saying, like, you don't necessarily have to find a problem.
[32:09.950 --> 32:10.830]  You know, you could be happy.
[32:10.970 --> 32:12.230]  You could laud something.
[32:13.070 --> 32:13.210]  Yeah.
[32:13.790 --> 32:14.770]  Sing its praises.
[32:16.770 --> 32:17.550]  If you want.
[32:18.970 --> 32:31.110]  Well, while we're waiting for somebody to talk with us, I want to give a shout to another email we got at OTH at 2600.com from Ryan from Raleigh, who sent us a photo, which is, you know, difficult for us to share over in audio medium.
[32:31.410 --> 32:36.050]  But it is a photo that he found in a grocery store in Baltimore.
[32:36.350 --> 32:38.230]  And the sign says, No hacking.
[32:38.870 --> 32:40.990]  It is a sign affixed to the outside of this grocery store.
[32:41.230 --> 32:42.310]  And he is...
[32:42.310 --> 32:44.470]  Ryan is wondering what this means.
[32:44.690 --> 32:48.930]  And apparently nobody knows why there's a no hacking sign outside this grocery store.
[32:48.930 --> 32:50.310]  You shouldn't hack a grocery store, Rob.
[32:50.450 --> 32:51.210]  I mean, that's...
[32:51.210 --> 32:54.490]  I think it's a way of referring to, like, clearing your throat, maybe.
[32:55.090 --> 32:55.970]  That's what I was thinking.
[32:56.090 --> 33:01.530]  I was thinking it's definitely a COVID thing and they don't want people spitting, hacking up.
[33:01.530 --> 33:02.890]  Why would you say it like that?
[33:02.990 --> 33:04.310]  Why would you just say no coughing?
[33:04.890 --> 33:05.910]  Because it's Baltimore.
[33:06.310 --> 33:06.850]  I don't know.
[33:07.010 --> 33:12.770]  Maybe there's some sort of, like, weird jargon that they use in Baltimore that, you know...
[33:12.770 --> 33:14.810]  Yeah, because we can't understand Baltimore.
[33:15.110 --> 33:15.870]  They're so weird.
[33:16.410 --> 33:23.650]  No, but in the same way that, like, the signs say curb your dog and curb your dog means pick up the poop and be a good neighbor.
[33:24.510 --> 33:25.150]  That's true.
[33:25.350 --> 33:28.210]  Maybe no hacking means don't hawk a loogie.
[33:29.310 --> 33:29.530]  Huh.
[33:29.990 --> 33:31.230]  Why can't they just say that?
[33:31.310 --> 33:32.210]  That's perfectly understandable.
[33:32.830 --> 33:33.270]  Shorter.
[33:34.470 --> 33:35.010]  All right.
[33:35.090 --> 33:37.710]  Well, you know, why don't we call the place and ask them?
[33:37.830 --> 33:39.010]  Maybe that'll answer the question.
[33:40.550 --> 33:42.270]  Because speculation is far more fun.
[33:42.430 --> 33:42.770]  It is.
[33:42.950 --> 33:43.810]  It really is.
[33:44.790 --> 33:46.210]  Hey, if you want to...
[33:46.210 --> 33:50.710]  As long as we're killing time here, if you want to get involved with the HOPE conference, please write to us.
[33:50.710 --> 33:53.230]  If you want to volunteer, volunteers at HOPE.net.
[33:53.230 --> 33:58.150]  We always are in need of more people to help us do whatever we're doing.
[33:58.530 --> 34:00.370]  And we're going to be doing a whole lot of things.
[34:00.390 --> 34:04.210]  We've been going back and forth with all sorts of plans and ideas.
[34:04.550 --> 34:06.050]  First time in a new space.
[34:06.450 --> 34:08.310]  First time getting together in four years.
[34:08.590 --> 34:09.630]  It's really going to be amazing.
[34:10.270 --> 34:12.150]  Lots of information at HOPE.net.
[34:12.250 --> 34:14.690]  New talks being added to the schedule every day.
[34:15.550 --> 34:20.130]  And if you want to get involved in any other way, just write to HOPE at HOPE.net.
[34:20.130 --> 34:23.650]  And we'll see that and get back to you.
[34:24.610 --> 34:25.170]  Gila, go ahead.
[34:25.630 --> 34:27.330]  It may also mean no hacking.
[34:29.710 --> 34:30.190]  Sorry.
[34:30.650 --> 34:31.990]  No hacking means no hacking.
[34:32.090 --> 34:32.250]  Wow.
[34:32.310 --> 34:32.930]  I never thought of that.
[34:34.970 --> 34:44.190]  Because, apparently, I just discovered, thank you, Wikipedia, there was a significant ransomware attack on the Baltimore City government offices.
[34:44.910 --> 34:47.510]  Yeah, but they're not in a grocery store.
[34:49.710 --> 34:51.030]  Maybe it's...
[34:51.860 --> 34:54.810]  I mean, you know, people who had free Kevin stickers weren't in court.
[34:56.090 --> 34:57.410]  Yeah, but...
[34:57.410 --> 35:02.250]  So you're saying it's like a community initiative or like a local campaign to...
[35:02.250 --> 35:05.450]  Yes, and while it should be no bad acting...
[35:05.450 --> 35:10.050]  Show solidarity and stand up for the bureaucracy.
[35:10.590 --> 35:12.850]  Who is going to see that sign and say, oh, you know what?
[35:12.890 --> 35:14.750]  I was going to hack, but I saw the sign saying no hacking.
[35:14.910 --> 35:16.050]  I'm not going to do it anymore.
[35:16.570 --> 35:18.550]  Or maybe they don't rent hacksaws.
[35:18.710 --> 35:19.230]  I don't know.
[35:19.430 --> 35:21.250]  There are many possibilities here.
[35:22.490 --> 35:23.970]  It begs for more information.
[35:24.190 --> 35:24.710]  Yes, Rob, go ahead.
[35:25.530 --> 35:28.630]  I mean, this is like the form factor of this sign.
[35:28.870 --> 35:31.670]  Like, people might be picturing a poster or something like that.
[35:31.790 --> 35:33.830]  But no, this is a rectangular...
[35:33.830 --> 35:35.190]  It looks like a road sign.
[35:35.330 --> 35:39.670]  It looks like a sign that would say no parking or no standing or something, except it says no hacking.
[35:39.890 --> 35:45.110]  Is it possible it did say no parking and somebody hacked the sign to make it say no hacking?
[35:45.630 --> 35:46.790]  I've seen that happen before.
[35:46.810 --> 35:47.090]  That would be great.
[35:47.350 --> 35:47.510]  Yeah.
[35:47.730 --> 35:49.130]  Well, you can tell if you look at it carefully.
[35:49.310 --> 35:49.710]  That would be awesome.
[35:51.330 --> 35:53.070]  Well, and in the...
[35:53.070 --> 35:57.010]  Based on this photo we've been sent, I can't tell that that's been done.
[35:57.010 --> 35:57.610]  Mm-hmm.
[35:58.790 --> 36:00.550]  But it's an interesting theory.
[36:01.730 --> 36:01.950]  Okay.
[36:02.170 --> 36:03.330]  It could also be photoshopped.
[36:03.510 --> 36:04.690]  It could be photoshopped.
[36:04.730 --> 36:05.190]  There you go.
[36:05.470 --> 36:09.730]  Except someone sent it to us saying that they saw it, so they'd be lying to us if they did that.
[36:09.850 --> 36:10.750]  And I don't think they...
[36:10.750 --> 36:11.610]  Our listener would do that.
[36:12.610 --> 36:15.110]  I don't think our listener would do that, but I think it's possible that someone...
[36:15.810 --> 36:21.190]  But our listener actually sent us the Google Maps link that this is located at.
[36:21.330 --> 36:23.170]  And pulling it up on Google Maps, it does...
[36:23.170 --> 36:23.810]  The sign is there.
[36:23.950 --> 36:26.290]  It does appear to be on Google Maps, so...
[36:26.290 --> 36:27.910]  It says no hacking on Google Maps.
[36:28.110 --> 36:29.790]  It says no hacking on Google Maps.
[36:29.970 --> 36:30.310]  Okay.
[36:30.610 --> 36:35.370]  Well, then we can, from that, call the place and ask them just what the hell they're talking about.
[36:35.610 --> 36:45.990]  But also, to point out, the sign, according to Google Maps, it's a street view picture from June 2019, as in the month after the ransomware attack.
[36:46.130 --> 36:47.630]  So it might be connected.
[36:47.810 --> 36:49.630]  Who knows if the sign is still up three years later?
[36:49.790 --> 36:56.690]  You can, not to tout Google's talents even more, you can go back before 2019 and see if the sign was there then.
[36:57.650 --> 36:58.610]  Do you know how to do that?
[36:59.470 --> 37:01.510]  I'm guessing you click on the camera jobber there?
[37:01.950 --> 37:02.850]  Yeah, something like that.
[37:03.850 --> 37:08.070]  There's usually many options, like six or seven options for dates.
[37:11.190 --> 37:11.630]  Yes.
[37:11.630 --> 37:13.350]  Oh, yeah, you can take it back to 2018.
[37:13.670 --> 37:15.870]  So now we're about to find out, was that sign there in 2018?
[37:16.990 --> 37:17.790]  Yes, it was.
[37:17.970 --> 37:18.130]  Aha!
[37:18.810 --> 37:24.710]  So either that's where the hacking originated before the attack started, or it means something completely different.
[37:25.570 --> 37:28.670]  I still agree with what Kyle was saying.
[37:28.710 --> 37:29.810]  I think it's spitting.
[37:30.830 --> 37:32.970]  Yeah, but there wasn't COVID in 2018.
[37:33.570 --> 37:34.650]  Yeah, but it's still gross.
[37:34.870 --> 37:36.610]  Yeah, but spitting was perfectly acceptable back then.
[37:37.370 --> 37:38.130]  It's still gross.
[37:38.190 --> 37:44.150]  If in Baltimore, hacking is spitting, what do they think when they see the magazine 2600, The Hacker Quarterly, on the shelf?
[37:44.630 --> 37:47.050]  Well, maybe it's not on the shelf in that grocery store.
[37:47.290 --> 37:49.470]  Yeah, maybe that's a way to keep us out of there.
[37:51.390 --> 37:57.390]  Hey, we're just going to wait a couple more minutes, 802-321-4225, because we have a lot of things we have to be working on right now.
[37:58.010 --> 38:01.230]  So if calls are finished, we're happy to get back to that.
[38:02.230 --> 38:04.890]  802-321-HACK, 802-321-4225.
[38:05.150 --> 38:08.210]  We'll give it a couple more minutes, and then we will be out of here until next week.
[38:11.420 --> 38:12.220]  It is true.
[38:12.700 --> 38:18.660]  And, you know, if you want to chat with us, it's not located on YouTube, it's located on your telephonic device.
[38:19.540 --> 38:20.400]  Give us a call.
[38:21.740 --> 38:27.260]  1-802-321-HACK, or 1-833-755-2600.
[38:27.540 --> 38:29.300]  This is your last chance to get in here today.
[38:32.860 --> 38:34.080]  Sorry, go ahead, Kyle.
[38:34.740 --> 38:40.540]  What do you think about all this hacking going on?
[38:40.700 --> 38:41.700]  Tell us, please.
[38:42.020 --> 38:42.940]  We want to know.
[38:43.160 --> 38:52.880]  If you notice something in your neighborhood, in your city that doesn't look right, or is being used in ways it wasn't intended, we love those stories.
[38:52.980 --> 38:59.680]  You can write to us, O-T-H at 2600.com, or call in now and chat with us.
[39:00.240 --> 39:01.020]  Go ahead, Kayla.
[39:01.340 --> 39:03.120]  I think I actually have the answer.
[39:03.120 --> 39:04.740]  That didn't take long, did it?
[39:05.580 --> 39:06.700]  No, it really didn't.
[39:06.840 --> 39:06.980]  Okay.
[39:07.100 --> 39:07.740]  What's the answer?
[39:07.980 --> 39:08.260]  Okay.
[39:08.700 --> 39:14.840]  A hack in Baltimore is what is known here as a gypsy cab.
[39:15.900 --> 39:16.860]  Oh, yeah.
[39:16.880 --> 39:19.300]  Well, we call them hacks too, taxis.
[39:19.760 --> 39:20.160]  So it means...
[39:20.160 --> 39:21.940]  Right, but you say like a hack license.
[39:22.080 --> 39:24.240]  So they're saying don't pick up...
[39:24.940 --> 39:28.380]  I wonder how that works now with like the rise of Uber and Lyft.
[39:28.820 --> 39:35.500]  But what they're saying, I believe, is don't pick up rides if you're not licensed to do that.
[39:36.140 --> 39:36.240]  Huh.
[39:37.500 --> 39:39.820]  And that would make sense to have in front of the store.
[39:40.860 --> 39:41.220]  Okay.
[39:41.420 --> 39:42.860]  By the drive up.
[39:44.200 --> 39:44.560]  Okay.
[39:44.700 --> 39:45.320]  I think we have a call.
[39:45.860 --> 39:46.160]  Good evening.
[39:46.280 --> 39:47.020]  You're on Off the Hook Overtime.
[39:47.020 --> 39:47.300]  Go ahead.
[39:48.520 --> 39:48.980]  Yeah, hello?
[39:49.160 --> 39:49.760]  Yes, go ahead.
[39:50.900 --> 39:51.980]  Yeah, no, I just...
[39:51.980 --> 39:56.280]  I was just trying to make a comment about the whole YouTube chat thing that you brought up.
[39:56.660 --> 39:56.880]  Go ahead.
[39:57.920 --> 40:14.080]  What I was going to say is another advantage to having the chat, the YouTube chat thing on the side is that when you have guests, people call in, the people that are not on the phone, they can actually interact with the guests also.
[40:14.400 --> 40:20.920]  Like, let's say if Rebel called in from Russia, the people watching can actually type their questions in, you know, whatever.
[40:21.080 --> 40:22.620]  And then you can turn around and ask him the question.
[40:22.820 --> 40:23.500]  Something like that.
[40:23.500 --> 40:32.720]  The only distinction I think that we're making is that as a show, we've had a lot of different ways to communicate.
[40:33.040 --> 40:35.460]  And we mentioned IRC being one of them.
[40:36.280 --> 40:45.040]  Basically, if everybody's all over the place, it dilutes the discussion and makes it really hard for any one of us to field that.
[40:45.220 --> 40:47.420]  Imagine we're looking through the YouTube chat.
[40:47.580 --> 40:48.320]  We're looking through IRC.
[40:48.460 --> 40:49.060]  We're looking at email.
[40:49.260 --> 40:49.780]  We're looking at Twitter.
[40:49.780 --> 40:52.420]  All of a sudden, we have to have like 12 eyeballs.
[40:53.260 --> 41:08.420]  So anyway, if we tell people about traditional channels that we've had people chatting on for a long time, it's just a little bit easier to kind of keep everybody in one place and or at least direct it in a kind of organized way to a spot where we can just glance over.
[41:08.540 --> 41:09.500]  But you raise a good point.
[41:09.500 --> 41:10.420]  You do raise a good point.
[41:10.600 --> 41:13.360]  And that, you know, maybe we can try it just to see what happens.
[41:13.360 --> 41:16.200]  You know, one week, we'll try it and see if we get distracted.
[41:16.540 --> 41:22.900]  The thing I worry about is just getting overly distracted where we're looking at the screen and not participating in our own conversation.
[41:23.080 --> 41:24.840]  But maybe we can pull it off.
[41:24.940 --> 41:25.300]  I don't know.
[41:25.480 --> 41:28.100]  We're willing to give it a try maybe next week or something.
[41:28.860 --> 41:37.700]  And the other thing you should try is you should put the number, this number that I just called, you should put it on the screen because I couldn't find...
[41:37.700 --> 41:39.300]  I've been trying to call.
[41:39.420 --> 41:43.220]  I wanted to call, let's say, for the last, I don't know, five or ten minutes, but the number isn't there.
[41:43.460 --> 41:46.520]  So I only knew to call this because you just said the number.
[41:46.680 --> 41:48.680]  Like, if you just have it there permanently...
[41:48.680 --> 41:54.180]  Yeah, put it in the bio or the description of the event or page.
[41:54.180 --> 41:56.080]  See, these are obvious things we don't think of.
[41:56.200 --> 41:57.400]  We're very bad at promoting ourselves.
[41:57.440 --> 41:58.860]  We will take that under consideration.
[41:59.020 --> 41:59.420]  That's a good idea.
[41:59.420 --> 42:04.200]  Yeah, sometimes we forget to say the name of the show or the time that it's on or, you know, anything.
[42:04.520 --> 42:05.800]  That's super important.
[42:06.600 --> 42:08.260]  But yeah, that's a good idea.
[42:08.540 --> 42:09.320]  That's a very good idea.
[42:09.380 --> 42:10.340]  We should have the number up there.
[42:11.120 --> 42:12.680]  Except we don't want people calling it...
[42:12.680 --> 42:14.520]  If there's a picture you have up there, just put the telephone number there.
[42:14.640 --> 42:15.800]  If there's a picture you have up there, just put the picture you have up there.
[42:15.800 --> 42:18.360]  We don't want people calling it too early, though.
[42:18.480 --> 42:21.400]  We don't want people calling it before we're ready to take calls.
[42:21.520 --> 42:23.420]  That's probably why we didn't put it up to start with.
[42:23.480 --> 42:28.880]  But I think either we can figure out how to put it up when we want to put it up or maybe just turn the phone off.
[42:29.360 --> 42:31.480]  We will think about these, caller.
[42:31.980 --> 42:34.500]  Oh, and there's one last thing.
[42:34.500 --> 42:35.980]  I was just watching on Yahoo.
[42:36.260 --> 42:37.960]  There's the Supreme Court.
[42:38.740 --> 42:40.300]  There's like a breaking news banner.
[42:40.580 --> 42:42.080]  Those bastards, what do they do now?
[42:42.540 --> 42:43.100]  I'm sorry.
[42:43.440 --> 42:47.020]  Well, they've raised the gun-buying age, the assault gun to 21.
[42:47.540 --> 42:48.880]  The Supreme Court did that?
[42:49.900 --> 42:50.860]  Not the Supreme Court.
[42:51.040 --> 42:51.320]  Congress.
[42:51.580 --> 42:52.540]  I mean, the House, I guess.
[42:52.720 --> 42:55.000]  Yeah, the House did it, but the Senate is not going to.
[42:55.120 --> 42:56.960]  And we're going to be in the same...
[42:57.500 --> 42:58.540]  It's true, Kyle.
[42:58.580 --> 42:59.080]  It's true.
[42:59.440 --> 43:00.640]  They're not going to pass it.
[43:00.760 --> 43:02.080]  I know they're not going to pass it.
[43:04.500 --> 43:05.140]  I wish they would.
[43:05.760 --> 43:08.900]  So we'll check on that story, too.
[43:09.060 --> 43:11.380]  Everybody out there, I'm sure, is also breaking...
[43:11.380 --> 43:15.340]  They will tear themselves away once we wrap things up here.
[43:15.460 --> 43:16.880]  But thanks for those comments.
[43:17.080 --> 43:19.260]  And of course, the chat idea is a good one.
[43:19.440 --> 43:20.580]  And we'll think about it.
[43:20.620 --> 43:21.840]  We know people, though.
[43:22.080 --> 43:28.940]  And we don't want people thinking that just anything is off to the side is something that we condone.
[43:28.940 --> 43:34.200]  If there's crazy links and stuff that's abused, we're going to do an about face.
[43:34.500 --> 43:34.600]  Yeah.
[43:35.100 --> 43:35.840]  We'll look into it, definitely.
[43:36.100 --> 43:37.580]  Can we ask where you're calling from?
[43:38.900 --> 43:39.840]  Where am I calling from?
[43:39.920 --> 43:40.980]  Yes, just approximately.
[43:41.280 --> 43:42.320]  I'm calling from New Jersey.
[43:42.460 --> 43:43.020]  I'm in New Jersey.
[43:43.140 --> 43:43.700]  New Jersey!
[43:43.980 --> 43:47.820]  201 area code, or 609, or 973, or one of those.
[43:48.100 --> 43:48.460]  Yeah.
[43:48.760 --> 43:48.960]  Cool.
[43:49.280 --> 43:50.300]  Well, thanks again for calling.
[43:51.220 --> 43:51.940]  Yes, thanks.
[43:52.160 --> 43:52.280]  All right.
[43:53.860 --> 43:54.220]  Bye.
[43:55.540 --> 43:59.980]  Okay, so I guess that's it for tonight, unless Rebel calls in, which I don't think he's going to.
[43:59.980 --> 44:02.900]  Because he's in Russia, and he's probably very distracted by being in Russia.
[44:03.660 --> 44:04.060]  Yeah.
[44:05.200 --> 44:08.140]  Look, you know, it's perfectly okay to have a fun time in Russia.
[44:08.180 --> 44:09.680]  I'm just not sure about having it now.
[44:11.760 --> 44:12.260]  All right.
[44:12.400 --> 44:13.720]  Any concluding remarks, folks?
[44:17.580 --> 44:23.400]  Just, yeah, keep sending us email, because we still love an email, at OTH at 2600.com.
[44:24.800 --> 44:25.660]  Yeah, definitely.
[44:27.200 --> 44:29.640]  I don't know if we have time for another call.
[44:35.480 --> 44:35.920]  Hmm.
[44:37.020 --> 44:38.180]  Time for another call.
[44:38.860 --> 44:39.940]  All right, let's do one more.
[44:43.800 --> 44:46.020]  And, hello, you're on Off the Hook Overtime.
[44:46.100 --> 44:46.360]  Go ahead.
[44:46.640 --> 44:47.380]  You're on the last call.
[44:47.700 --> 44:48.100]  Hi, guys.
[44:48.580 --> 44:49.600]  Tim in Connecticut.
[44:49.600 --> 44:50.280]  How are you guys doing?
[44:50.280 --> 44:50.960]  Oh, hey, how are you doing?
[44:51.080 --> 44:51.440]  And gals.
[44:52.580 --> 44:56.420]  I was wondering, actually not wondering, but did want to comment.
[44:56.420 --> 45:03.500]  You were talking about trying to get an image on some of the pages that won't allow you to print properly.
[45:04.320 --> 45:10.940]  There's always that little print screen button that just does a Control-C copy.
[45:11.220 --> 45:12.220]  I don't think...
[45:12.220 --> 45:20.820]  I have a few things that just don't work in particular software, and I find that I can print screen and then just drop it into a paint shop.
[45:21.020 --> 45:26.340]  Okay, that probably would work, because it's your system printing the entire desktop, right?
[45:26.420 --> 45:31.740]  So, yeah, then if you import that and blow it up, it probably won't look that good, though.
[45:32.900 --> 45:33.460]  It does.
[45:33.580 --> 45:35.520]  It looks as good as it is on the screen.
[45:35.740 --> 45:36.000]  Does it?
[45:36.060 --> 45:36.220]  Okay.
[45:36.540 --> 45:41.860]  I haven't had problems sending it around to other people in different platforms, but I use that as a...
[45:41.860 --> 45:44.240]  I can't get it any other possible way.
[45:44.260 --> 45:46.300]  There's no print function, things like that.
[45:46.400 --> 45:46.600]  Uh-huh.
[45:46.900 --> 45:48.320]  I was just surprised that...
[45:48.320 --> 45:50.480]  It allows me to at least send around what I'm looking.
[45:50.480 --> 46:00.220]  I was surprised that Google could just disable something like cutting and pasting and printing on all platforms, you know, all browsers.
[46:00.900 --> 46:04.600]  I expected it to work in, you know, in Firefox, at least, but it didn't.
[46:05.700 --> 46:06.020]  Hmm.
[46:06.460 --> 46:06.620]  Yeah.
[46:06.620 --> 46:08.880]  Well, it might be a function of the website.
[46:09.680 --> 46:16.360]  Well, I mean, the website is a Google document, so I guess, you know, they set it up that way.
[46:16.520 --> 46:32.300]  It's something about how that service is sending you the representation of the file, and it is a stream of sorts or an image, but not a selectable image.
[46:32.300 --> 46:41.960]  So it's sort of in a container that only their software can set the boundaries on, and you as a user are limited to being in their user environment.
[46:42.040 --> 46:46.700]  That's the thing that got me, because I was able to look at the text and select the text, highlight the text.
[46:46.860 --> 46:48.920]  I just couldn't do anything after I did that.
[46:48.960 --> 46:49.900]  I couldn't control C.
[46:50.520 --> 46:51.280]  You know, I couldn't...
[46:51.860 --> 46:56.960]  The drop-down menu wouldn't allow me to copy the text that I'd already selected.
[46:56.960 --> 46:57.820]  It was just disabled.
[46:58.160 --> 47:01.100]  It just bothered me that they had that kind of power.
[47:02.300 --> 47:07.640]  Yeah, but usually the print screen button always allows me to capture locally what I can see.
[47:07.760 --> 47:08.380]  I will try that.
[47:08.400 --> 47:10.040]  I didn't think of that, but that's a good idea.
[47:10.180 --> 47:14.040]  And then I just got to drop it into something basic, you know, like paint or...
[47:14.040 --> 47:14.200]  Right.
[47:14.240 --> 47:15.920]  Actually, I can drop it into Outlook, too.
[47:16.180 --> 47:16.420]  Uh-huh.
[47:16.580 --> 47:22.920]  Yeah, and if it's text, you could do character recognition and get it into a machine-readable file format.
[47:23.000 --> 47:24.440]  I think my solution is taking a picture.
[47:24.640 --> 47:25.980]  Taking a picture and printing the picture.
[47:26.760 --> 47:28.040]  Taking a picture and printing that.
[47:28.480 --> 47:29.920]  That's the low-tech solution.
[47:31.540 --> 47:31.900]  Right.
[47:31.900 --> 47:41.640]  Also, you know, turning on the chat function, I have, just as a good example, Prairie Home Companion.
[47:41.800 --> 47:50.960]  When they went online only, they had chat functions on the side of their YouTube broadcast, but they had to dedicate people strictly to watch the stream.
[47:51.220 --> 47:51.720]  Yeah.
[47:51.960 --> 47:56.200]  In order to get comments and suggestions over to anybody that was on air.
[47:57.120 --> 48:01.040]  But that took one dedicated person to respond to everybody.
[48:01.920 --> 48:04.260]  And also to keep it clean, because...
[48:04.260 --> 48:05.200]  Oh, absolutely.
[48:05.420 --> 48:05.620]  Yeah.
[48:05.760 --> 48:06.940]  You get all kinds of...
[48:06.940 --> 48:08.160]  You have to monitor it.
[48:08.380 --> 48:13.320]  ...attention seekers that just want to, you know, say the most outrageous things.
[48:13.500 --> 48:15.260]  And, you know, it's...
[48:15.260 --> 48:20.140]  We have to get more people involved, or we have to take away from what we're doing to babysit that.
[48:20.560 --> 48:27.480]  But, you know, that said, I'm willing to give it a try just to see if maybe it works in our community, but I'm skeptical.
[48:27.480 --> 48:30.380]  You want to hope that you have a more sophisticated audience.
[48:31.120 --> 48:32.000]  Yeah, well, you know...
[48:32.000 --> 48:35.860]  When you put a public forum out there, you get everybody who just figures, oh, what the heck.
[48:36.000 --> 48:37.180]  Yeah, anybody can listen.
[48:37.300 --> 48:39.000]  So, it's not a question of the community.
[48:39.000 --> 48:41.920]  It's a question of who actually sees the link and clicks on it.
[48:42.800 --> 48:43.120]  Right.
[48:44.620 --> 48:45.920]  Okay, well, that's all I had.
[48:46.280 --> 48:47.360]  Okay, thanks so much for calling.
[48:48.220 --> 48:48.540]  Sure.
[48:48.760 --> 48:49.380]  Have a good one, guys.
[48:49.480 --> 48:49.680]  You too.
[48:49.760 --> 48:49.960]  Bye-bye.
[48:50.080 --> 48:50.460]  And gals.
[48:50.660 --> 48:50.960]  Bye-bye.
[48:52.100 --> 48:54.660]  All right, that's going to be the last call, because we are out of time.
[48:54.780 --> 48:55.880]  And out of patience.
[48:57.280 --> 48:59.520]  And, yes, Rob, looks like you have something to say.
[49:00.240 --> 49:07.140]  Yeah, just if you want to take a look at that no hacking sign for yourself, it is now on our Twitter at Hacker Radio Show.
[49:08.100 --> 49:11.280]  And, yes, thank you again to Ryan for sending that in.
[49:11.420 --> 49:20.640]  And if you are a taxi driver who does what they call hacking in Baltimore, don't do it there, because they don't like it and it's forbidden.
[49:21.260 --> 49:23.160]  And we should get those signs for everywhere.
[49:23.160 --> 49:26.140]  Just to see how people react to them.
[49:27.640 --> 49:28.260]  All right.
[49:28.880 --> 49:30.360]  Well, go ahead, Gila.
[49:30.860 --> 49:32.080]  Yeah, I was going to say, they exist.
[49:32.160 --> 49:32.960]  We could probably get them.
[49:33.120 --> 49:33.220]  Yeah.
[49:33.880 --> 49:34.820]  We will work on that.
[49:35.760 --> 49:35.980]  Definitely.
[49:35.980 --> 49:42.520]  We will work on this no hacking warning, because people need to know.
[49:43.020 --> 49:51.080]  You know, we could have averted this whole thing, this whole problem with the internet, if there was just better signage.
[49:51.340 --> 49:54.240]  Yeah, I mean, if you put up a sign saying something's forbidden, people won't do it.
[49:54.580 --> 49:56.900]  Why didn't anyone think of that?
[49:57.180 --> 49:58.480]  Look at what has happened.
[49:58.660 --> 49:58.760]  Yeah.
[49:59.760 --> 50:07.120]  Yeah, I'll bet that grocery store doesn't have any hackers that are taking down military systems, or Teslas, or...
[50:07.120 --> 50:07.900]  The Whopper?
[50:08.100 --> 50:09.060]  Yeah, all of that.
[50:09.060 --> 50:14.000]  Do you think you can get an NFT of a no hacking sign?
[50:14.580 --> 50:16.600]  This is where that idea was born.
[50:18.900 --> 50:29.380]  Everyone, venture to have all of those stories of things that were hacked, or stuff that looks fishy, for next time.
[50:29.400 --> 50:29.900]  Yes.
[50:30.240 --> 50:31.340]  Because we're out of time.
[50:31.540 --> 50:35.280]  And write to us, OTH at 2600.com, with your comments or questions.
[50:35.280 --> 50:41.280]  And we will see you again next Wednesday at 7 on WBAI, next Wednesday at 8 on YouTube.
[50:41.780 --> 50:43.020]  Stay chatty.
[50:43.280 --> 50:43.720]  Bye.