[00:00.000 --> 00:02.420]  Or go to give to wbai.org online.
[00:02.760 --> 00:07.260]  Or go to towerfund.wbai.org online.
[00:07.740 --> 00:11.600]  At this point, you know what I'm about to say.
[00:12.360 --> 00:15.420]  Four Times Square, two months behind the rant.
[00:16.720 --> 00:22.300]  388 Atlantic Avenue, where the studios at WBAI are located, three months behind the rant.
[00:23.460 --> 00:24.920]  You know that already.
[00:25.100 --> 00:25.640]  Okay?
[00:25.940 --> 00:27.080]  It's 7 p.m.
[00:27.820 --> 00:29.920]  Stay tuned for Off the Hook.
[00:30.000 --> 00:30.880]  Coming up.
[01:44.180 --> 01:47.800]  I hope that's understood, one big move.
[02:44.970 --> 02:47.050]  And a very, very good evening to everybody.
[02:47.050 --> 02:49.110]  The program is Off the Hook.
[02:50.230 --> 02:53.350]  I'm going to go see you here with you on this momentous night.
[02:53.850 --> 02:58.630]  I say momentous because we've all just been through something huge.
[03:00.270 --> 03:01.190]  Hope is over.
[03:02.210 --> 03:04.470]  Wait, if you don't know what I'm talking about, that might sound really bad.
[03:04.550 --> 03:10.510]  No, the conference that we all have been involved in for so long has come and gone.
[03:10.730 --> 03:12.350]  Hackers on Planet Earth is over.
[03:12.350 --> 03:19.570]  And this is one of those shows where we all just kind of recover, I guess, live on the air.
[03:20.190 --> 03:22.450]  I'm Manuel Goldstein, joined tonight by Kyle.
[03:22.890 --> 03:23.090]  Hello.
[03:23.490 --> 03:26.430]  And in Skypeland, we have a whole bunch of people.
[03:27.150 --> 03:30.310]  We have what looks like Greg Newby up there.
[03:31.150 --> 03:32.010]  Greg, are you there?
[03:33.110 --> 03:35.110]  Hey, I am, and it's great to be here.
[03:35.270 --> 03:37.010]  Looks like you're in some kind of an airport or something.
[03:37.870 --> 03:41.790]  I am on the way home, and it does actually take a little while to get there.
[03:41.990 --> 03:46.010]  Now, when you say home, you're talking about the Yukon Territories in Canada.
[03:46.330 --> 03:48.010]  So it's no small trip.
[03:48.550 --> 03:48.830]  Indeed.
[03:49.330 --> 03:50.370]  And Greg...
[03:50.370 --> 03:52.010]  The northwest corner of Canada.
[03:52.210 --> 03:52.630]  That's right.
[03:52.630 --> 03:53.970]  And I can't wait to see it.
[03:54.350 --> 04:02.870]  But Greg has been so instrumental in having this Hope Conference get pulled off successfully.
[04:03.310 --> 04:06.210]  And there's a reason why this one was a particularly important one.
[04:06.210 --> 04:07.470]  And we'll get into that in just a moment.
[04:07.550 --> 04:09.570]  Let me finish the introductions.
[04:10.370 --> 04:11.870]  We also have...
[04:12.390 --> 04:13.430]  Voltaire is joining us.
[04:13.570 --> 04:14.090]  Voltaire, welcome.
[04:16.870 --> 04:17.710]  Hi, how's it going?
[04:18.490 --> 04:20.530]  It's, you know, jet lag.
[04:20.630 --> 04:21.290]  Let's put it that way.
[04:21.370 --> 04:22.630]  I'm local, but I'm jet lagged.
[04:23.090 --> 04:24.170]  Jet lag from Queens?
[04:24.410 --> 04:27.610]  Yeah, I don't understand how that's possible, but it is.
[04:28.050 --> 04:30.310]  And, of course, Alex, who's with us each week.
[04:30.490 --> 04:31.150]  Welcome, Alex.
[04:31.890 --> 04:32.770]  Good evening, everybody.
[04:33.650 --> 04:35.490]  We have Mitch Altman.
[04:37.330 --> 04:37.770]  Hello.
[04:38.450 --> 04:44.110]  And you're usually in Germany, but it looks like you're in the same room as Voltaire right now, so I guess you're in New York.
[04:45.030 --> 04:45.930]  I'm in New York.
[04:45.930 --> 04:47.890]  I go back home on Saturday.
[04:48.430 --> 04:49.250]  Okay, wow.
[04:49.490 --> 04:50.370]  And we have Liz Gorski.
[04:50.370 --> 04:51.110]  We're in little Ukraine.
[04:51.410 --> 04:55.950]  Okay, we have Liz Gorski joining us as well, from parts unknown to me, at least.
[05:00.100 --> 05:01.160]  Yeah, I'm still in Queens.
[05:01.580 --> 05:02.140]  Oh, you're in Queens?
[05:02.160 --> 05:03.060]  But I live here, so...
[05:03.060 --> 05:03.740]  You're in Queens?
[05:03.940 --> 05:04.480]  You live in Queens?
[05:04.480 --> 05:04.620]  Yeah.
[05:04.700 --> 05:05.240]  I didn't know that.
[05:05.440 --> 05:05.800]  Wow.
[05:05.960 --> 05:20.580]  Okay, well, you know, okay, let's start with that, because the Hackers on Planet Earth conference that took place this weekend, it was our 14th conference, I believe, and every single one of those conferences has taken place on the island of Manhattan,
[05:20.580 --> 05:24.900]  all of them at the Hotel Pennsylvania, except for Beyond Hope, which took place at the Puck Building.
[05:24.900 --> 05:38.180]  This one took place in the borough of Queens, the most diverse borough, the most diverse county in the entire United States, and I was just so proud and privileged to bring people there.
[05:38.380 --> 05:42.260]  I grew up in Queens, too, if you consider eight years old, grown up.
[05:42.400 --> 05:43.220]  That's how long I lasted.
[05:44.280 --> 05:53.100]  And just to see all these people come to St. John's University instead, a university setting instead of a hotel setting, was truly inspirational.
[05:53.100 --> 05:55.300]  It was a completely different mood.
[05:55.340 --> 05:58.800]  As we said at the beginning of the conference, this is going to be history.
[05:58.960 --> 06:03.900]  We're setting a tone right now for the future, because Hotel Pennsylvania is no more.
[06:03.940 --> 06:13.000]  I believe it's being destroyed as we speak, which is awfully sad, but we have to consider how we're going to survive and move on and continue doing what we do.
[06:13.460 --> 06:33.220]  And St. John's University was a great place to have the conference, it turned out, because it's a fantastic campus, a lot of open space, and a lot of infrastructure, and great rooms to use for various speaker tracks and workshops and all sorts of other projects.
[06:35.160 --> 06:38.800]  So, who wants to go first, as far as giving some recollection?
[06:38.900 --> 06:40.940]  Greg, looks like you have something to say.
[06:43.200 --> 06:57.340]  Well, actually, I was curious if you think we would like to share the story of how we came to be at St. John's, and I know Kyle knows the beginning of that story, and I know sort of the middle of that story, but it's a pretty interesting story of how St. John's and Hope got together.
[06:57.540 --> 07:13.520]  Well, I can start with the very beginning, which is Hotel Pennsylvania tripling their prices after the 2018 conference, which devastated us because we could not have put on a conference that would be affordable to average people.
[07:13.720 --> 07:19.860]  It would have to be one of those 1,000, 2,000 ahead type of deals, and that's just not who we are.
[07:20.600 --> 07:24.580]  So, we started looking throughout New York City, thinking, yeah, it has to be another hotel.
[07:25.000 --> 07:31.680]  And boy, you know, Hotel Pennsylvania was a fairly cheap hotel compared to everything else.
[07:31.680 --> 07:39.000]  And when we saw what other hotels were going to be charging, it even made the tripling of the price that Hotel Pennsylvania was pulling.
[07:39.160 --> 07:41.460]  It made that seem cheap in comparison.
[07:41.700 --> 07:47.780]  So, you know, people were giving us all sorts of suggestions, many times saying, why don't you... you don't have to have the conference in New York.
[07:47.880 --> 07:49.680]  You can come to this particular town.
[07:49.920 --> 07:53.180]  And it happens to be the town that I live in, but we think that would be...
[07:53.180 --> 07:55.600]  I think that would be the best place for the conference to be.
[07:55.700 --> 07:56.540]  It's a mile from my house.
[07:56.660 --> 07:58.460]  We got a lot of suggestions like that.
[07:59.280 --> 08:01.020]  And we took them seriously.
[08:01.020 --> 08:04.720]  Yeah, sometimes it was just like an empty pier or like a dock or something.
[08:04.720 --> 08:05.860]  Well, yeah, it doesn't have to be inside.
[08:05.860 --> 08:06.700]  It can be outside.
[08:07.040 --> 08:10.200]  You know, a lot of people don't realize what it takes to put on a conference.
[08:10.460 --> 08:12.400]  Yeah, it has an open field by my house.
[08:12.520 --> 08:13.460]  We can have it there.
[08:14.700 --> 08:15.500]  Yeah, it's...
[08:15.500 --> 08:17.420]  No, it doesn't work that way.
[08:18.120 --> 08:22.980]  So, Greg, I know you were very much involved in the search at that point.
[08:23.000 --> 08:25.280]  And I think the next chapter is yours.
[08:27.340 --> 08:42.480]  Well, the thing that was interesting is there's a predecessor history, which Kyle was involved with, where we had a bunch of students and some faculty from St. John's, from the cybersecurity program there, attending Hackers on Planet Earth in a pretty big group.
[08:42.480 --> 08:46.740]  And I think that was 2016, but it was early 2018, where they sent a bunch of students.
[08:46.860 --> 08:47.940]  And so they knew about us.
[08:48.160 --> 08:49.460]  We knew a little bit about them.
[08:49.580 --> 08:52.620]  They had the cybersecurity program, some other interesting things going on.
[08:52.980 --> 08:57.240]  And so when it came time to shop around, we sent out a formal RFP.
[08:57.240 --> 09:01.920]  We got some nice support from the New York City Tourism Department to send out an RFP for venues.
[09:02.280 --> 09:07.060]  We got some really strong proposals back from some of the big monster hotels in Manhattan.
[09:07.440 --> 09:14.040]  And one of the first things we discovered is that if you're going to work in a big monster hotel, it's very difficult to bring volunteer labor.
[09:14.360 --> 09:17.240]  And HOPE is a volunteer-led conference.
[09:17.820 --> 09:24.200]  So the economics were going to be problematic, maybe even more problematic than Hotel 10 tripling its price.
[09:24.200 --> 09:26.920]  But St. John's was part of the mix there.
[09:27.040 --> 09:33.060]  And they said, not only do we have this sort of alignment of, you know, we have a cybersecurity program.
[09:33.060 --> 09:34.080]  We've been sending students.
[09:34.260 --> 09:35.120]  We're interested in what you're doing.
[09:35.340 --> 09:41.280]  We're sympathetic to, you know, 2600 Magazine and the HOPE Conference and Off the Hook radio show.
[09:42.100 --> 09:47.840]  Also, though, we really want to let you be creative and sort of follow your dreams.
[09:47.860 --> 09:49.180]  And we want to be part of that.
[09:49.320 --> 09:52.820]  So that was really an enlightened response from St. John's University.
[09:52.820 --> 09:54.440]  And I think we built from there.
[09:54.620 --> 09:55.840]  Of course, that was back...
[09:55.840 --> 09:56.580]  Maybe it was 2019.
[09:57.020 --> 10:00.900]  That was back when we were planning a 2020 event.
[10:01.080 --> 10:02.780]  And of course, we didn't have that.
[10:03.000 --> 10:04.220]  We had a virtual event in 2020.
[10:04.420 --> 10:06.120]  But we maintained the relationship.
[10:06.120 --> 10:13.400]  So here in 2022, all that we thought they were, you know, sort of aligned with us on really came to be.
[10:13.600 --> 10:24.340]  You know, we really got what we wanted from St. John's and all the expectations in terms of collaboration, cooperation, real openness to the sort of things that our attendees do.
[10:24.500 --> 10:26.420]  All of that came to be.
[10:26.920 --> 10:54.080]  Yeah, it was a great, great relationship just accommodating that many students coming to a place like Hotel Penn and trying to find a place that suited us, that matched the way we wanted to do things, that had as many of the amenities, as many of the details like proximity to transit and so forth,
[10:54.080 --> 11:01.580]  that we could emulate, but in a different location because we didn't have that previous one.
[11:01.580 --> 11:09.340]  But the familiarity with the school, it really was intriguing how our search was sort of in parallel.
[11:09.620 --> 11:15.980]  And as we went through our options, this campus emerged as a possibility.
[11:16.180 --> 11:17.560]  We didn't know for sure.
[11:18.000 --> 11:21.400]  There was a lot of unknowns going into it.
[11:21.400 --> 11:25.220]  And we really didn't...
[11:25.740 --> 11:36.520]  We just kind of mentioned it in some of our discussions with the student advisor there, Denise, and that program.
[11:37.020 --> 11:39.600]  And they were kind of enthusiastic.
[11:39.600 --> 11:43.980]  And it still wasn't clear what it was going to take.
[11:44.120 --> 11:47.600]  And that's the thing that I think a lot of us were surprised about.
[11:47.600 --> 11:53.140]  And the school, of course, probably, you know, they had a lot of questions about, you know, how to get it right.
[11:53.140 --> 11:54.940]  And we wanted to make sure it happened.
[11:55.120 --> 11:55.460]  Here's the thing.
[11:55.540 --> 11:57.280]  St. John's has a great cyber program.
[11:57.500 --> 12:01.240]  They have really state-of-the-art networking.
[12:01.880 --> 12:06.020]  And they were enthused to have something like Hope on their turf.
[12:06.340 --> 12:08.240]  And I can certainly see why.
[12:08.980 --> 12:16.700]  It's definitely a changed mood when you're on a college campus as opposed to in the middle of midtown Manhattan in a crowded hotel.
[12:17.160 --> 12:23.760]  It becomes a lot more relaxed, a lot more open to all kinds of conversations.
[12:24.240 --> 12:25.220]  Because, you know, the hallway track.
[12:25.320 --> 12:27.580]  The hallway track is what people always talk about at conferences.
[12:27.580 --> 12:33.320]  That's where you basically are talking to people outside the actual prepared talks.
[12:33.320 --> 12:34.960]  And that's where you network.
[12:35.080 --> 12:35.960]  That's where you meet people.
[12:36.680 --> 12:40.020]  And the entire campus was a hallway track.
[12:40.120 --> 12:41.620]  There were all kinds of places to go.
[12:41.860 --> 12:45.960]  I saw people at 2 in the morning sitting at tables outside having conversations.
[12:46.060 --> 12:47.580]  That is what it's all about.
[12:47.720 --> 12:50.480]  That kind of community, of getting together.
[12:50.480 --> 12:52.280]  That's what we were hoping was going to happen.
[12:52.580 --> 12:58.700]  But, you know, none of it would have worked if the attendees had rejected it or hadn't been comfortable there.
[12:58.700 --> 13:04.040]  And I'm happy to say, from everything I've heard so far, it's a good fit.
[13:04.220 --> 13:05.660]  Now, there are things we can improve upon.
[13:05.660 --> 13:06.900]  We're going to talk about that a little bit.
[13:07.240 --> 13:09.620]  And that's something we can use help.
[13:09.620 --> 13:10.500]  We can use advice.
[13:10.820 --> 13:14.260]  But mostly, I think this is a good pairing.
[13:14.260 --> 13:18.820]  And it's a different chapter in our community.
[13:18.840 --> 13:22.520]  Because we're moving from one venue to something completely different.
[13:23.360 --> 13:25.900]  And, you know, it's kind of like starting over again.
[13:26.300 --> 13:28.060]  It's hence a new hope.
[13:28.560 --> 13:37.800]  Now, Liz, I know as you live in Queens, you must have heard at some point, hey, hope is coming to something fairly close to your neighborhood.
[13:38.580 --> 13:40.520]  How did you feel when you first heard that?
[13:42.440 --> 13:48.480]  I was honestly, to be able to go to Hope and sleep in my own bed at night, that was just like perfect.
[13:49.000 --> 13:52.540]  Because we lived less than 15 minutes away from campus.
[13:52.920 --> 13:57.040]  So that was actually like great.
[13:57.040 --> 14:00.420]  I could see everyone, go home afterward, pet my cat.
[14:00.920 --> 14:01.660]  Where is she?
[14:03.200 --> 14:05.320]  But yeah, no, that was super exciting.
[14:06.000 --> 14:08.940]  I did miss the environment of just being in Manhattan.
[14:09.300 --> 14:16.380]  Because, you know, growing up on Long Island, you know, it's a big deal to like go into Manhattan for the day and to go for a conference.
[14:16.980 --> 14:20.360]  But to have it essentially right in my backyard, it was quite lovely, honestly.
[14:21.180 --> 14:23.900]  Well, I mean, it's good for people who live in Queens, obviously.
[14:24.340 --> 14:28.720]  But for the people who came, I was amazed how many people had never been to Queens before.
[14:28.720 --> 14:30.520]  We asked that at the closing ceremonies.
[14:31.420 --> 14:34.000]  And the majority of people had never been to Queens.
[14:34.940 --> 14:37.620]  Now, there were a couple of options for places to stay.
[14:37.740 --> 14:44.200]  If you didn't live in Queens, you could stay in a dormitory on campus, which is what me, Kyle, Mitch, and Greg decided to do.
[14:44.300 --> 14:54.120]  And it was the right choice, I think, for us, because we could just roll out of bed and walk across campus, not a very long walk at all, and just be at the conference.
[14:54.120 --> 14:56.340]  But there were also hotels down the road.
[14:56.720 --> 15:03.100]  And I know, Alex, you were telling me earlier that you were hanging out at one of those hotels.
[15:03.460 --> 15:06.780]  It's literally right smack on the Long Island Expressway.
[15:07.480 --> 15:12.060]  I mean, it's not on the Expressway, but it's on that service road, Horace, Harding, whatever that is.
[15:14.120 --> 15:21.320]  And there's two hotels there, and there's a bar, the Emerald Pub, I think is what it's called, on the ground floor.
[15:21.360 --> 15:23.280]  And you were actually hanging out in that bar.
[15:23.280 --> 15:32.720]  And that's what I was hoping people would do, that they'd find some kind of a place to hang out after hours and just meet other people in that kind of a setting.
[15:32.780 --> 15:33.360]  What was that like?
[15:34.120 --> 15:37.960]  Well, yeah, we were certainly there for hours after hours.
[15:38.100 --> 15:39.500]  And I got to say, it was fantastic.
[15:39.940 --> 15:47.320]  I mean, the Emerald Pub, which was right next to the Fairfield Inn, which is, I think, one of the hotels that the conference had recommended.
[15:49.320 --> 15:53.800]  And also, let me back up and go farther back in the day.
[15:54.100 --> 15:55.920]  This was Saturday night when I was there.
[15:56.060 --> 16:02.080]  But speaking of Queens, you had also recommended, Emmanuel, that a colleague and I go out to Flushing.
[16:02.560 --> 16:08.360]  And I live in Manhattan, and I'm never, ever over in Queens, and especially not Flushing.
[16:08.580 --> 16:11.800]  And I have to say, the last time I was in Flushing, it was probably 20-something years ago.
[16:11.800 --> 16:13.400]  You know, the place has completely changed.
[16:13.460 --> 16:17.400]  And it honestly felt like I could have been in a city in China.
[16:17.740 --> 16:20.220]  And we had such a great experience.
[16:20.220 --> 16:22.280]  We found so many amazing restaurants.
[16:22.280 --> 16:33.780]  We wound up on the roof of the Hyatt Hotel with another conference speaker, who shall remain nameless, you know, for good reason, because we were out way too late.
[16:34.480 --> 16:36.680]  And we just had a blast.
[16:36.680 --> 16:47.500]  We had a blast just running around, exploring the place, and feeling like we're literally 25 minutes away, you know, maybe 11 miles from where I live in Manhattan.
[16:47.500 --> 16:49.300]  But it felt like a completely different world.
[16:49.520 --> 16:56.880]  And then on the way back, so it was just probably about 1.30 in the morning, maybe later, we had stopped back at the Emerald Pub.
[16:57.140 --> 17:03.260]  And it was chalk to the brim with hackers and people from the conference playing pool, hanging out with locals.
[17:03.260 --> 17:11.060]  The Emerald Pub was open till 4 a.m., like a tried-and-true New York pub prior to the pandemic.
[17:11.360 --> 17:14.300]  Everyone was playing darts, playing pool, hanging out outside.
[17:14.460 --> 17:15.840]  It was a great time.
[17:15.840 --> 17:25.820]  It really reminded me of, you know, when you think about kind of dive bar, dingy Irish pubs and hope, it reminded me a hell of a lot of the Blarney Stone.
[17:26.220 --> 17:36.040]  But yet, here we are in Queens, finding essentially the equivalent, the new tradition, I think, that will be our drinking spot for hopefully many years to come.
[17:36.140 --> 17:37.420]  The Emerald Pub, we had a blast.
[17:37.520 --> 17:38.600]  It was just a great time.
[17:38.800 --> 17:39.760]  That's awesome to hear.
[17:39.820 --> 17:44.480]  And that's everything I was hoping would happen because we do need that kind of a place to hang out in.
[17:44.680 --> 17:46.300]  The campus is a dry campus.
[17:46.300 --> 17:47.640]  You can't drink on campus.
[17:48.020 --> 17:54.320]  Honestly, I welcome that because almost all of the problems we've had in the past have been connected in some way to drinking.
[17:54.860 --> 17:58.840]  And it's just good to not have those problems right in the middle of the conference.
[17:58.840 --> 18:07.220]  So, you know, if you want to go off campus and, you know, have that kind of a hangout, fine, it's nearby, it's plentiful.
[18:07.460 --> 18:11.620]  And as you said, the neighborhood is just so interesting.
[18:12.260 --> 18:17.260]  Flushing is just a few minutes away by Uber or Lyft or a yellow cab.
[18:18.740 --> 18:29.740]  Our experience Sunday night after we did most of the loading of trucks after the conference had ended, it was my thought that we'd just head down to Flushing, but it got really late.
[18:29.860 --> 18:30.280]  It was midnight.
[18:30.780 --> 18:35.200]  And we were desperate, thinking, oh, well, are we going to wind up in a fast food joint or something?
[18:35.320 --> 18:36.620]  But no, this is still New York.
[18:36.840 --> 18:41.620]  And we were able to find this awesome Chinese place on a side street in Flushing.
[18:41.760 --> 18:43.680]  It even had hope in the name.
[18:43.880 --> 18:46.860]  I'm not going to say the full name, but it was such a bizarre coincidence.
[18:47.240 --> 18:57.380]  And when we went in there, Alex, like you said, it was like going into China because it was one of these places that's inside another place that's upstairs and around the back.
[18:57.680 --> 18:59.440]  It was so incredibly awesome.
[18:59.580 --> 19:03.860]  And the food we had was so authentic and so spicy.
[19:04.480 --> 19:11.100]  And just really, it made me happy after that weekend to be able to just sort of go to a place like that that was so close by.
[19:11.540 --> 19:14.240]  And I just hope many people had similar experiences like that.
[19:14.300 --> 19:26.320]  And by the way, if you had an experience at Hope, whether it was in person or online, because we had a lot of online attendees as well, you can write to us feedback at hope.net and tell us what it was like.
[19:26.540 --> 19:28.440]  Tell us what you experienced.
[19:28.800 --> 19:31.120]  Tell us the things that worked, the things that didn't work.
[19:31.240 --> 19:32.040]  We'd love to hear from you.
[19:32.320 --> 19:33.760]  Now, Vulture, I know you were at the conference.
[19:33.920 --> 19:36.680]  Somehow, I didn't see you at the conference, but I know you were there.
[19:37.960 --> 19:38.940]  How do you compare it?
[19:39.820 --> 19:40.640]  I really liked it.
[19:40.760 --> 19:45.480]  I thought that the classroom atmosphere would work super well, especially for the workshops.
[19:46.200 --> 19:49.020]  It was just, I think, it was much easier as a participant.
[19:49.020 --> 19:57.020]  And I assume as a presenter, having everybody in front of you, as opposed to at Hope, where it's kind of like in spreading circles.
[19:57.020 --> 20:06.220]  So it was easier for the workshop giver to come around and help everybody and make sure, find out how many people were behind and ahead with soldering.
[20:06.700 --> 20:08.820]  So that went really well.
[20:08.900 --> 20:11.640]  And it actually gave me a lot more confidence working on it.
[20:11.700 --> 20:13.580]  I soldered two different projects there.
[20:13.720 --> 20:15.660]  And that was really rewarding.
[20:15.660 --> 20:21.520]  Yeah, Mitch and other people, I believe, were also teaching people how to solder.
[20:22.420 --> 20:24.760]  And that enthusiasm was there throughout.
[20:24.800 --> 20:29.640]  And all kinds of interesting talks and workshops and projects.
[20:29.760 --> 20:30.780]  Greg, I think you have something?
[20:33.610 --> 20:44.390]  Well, I was going to suggest, actually, what you just started on, which is maybe for listeners who didn't attend or are thinking of attending, maybe we should just give a quick rundown of some of the types of activities and some of the highlights from the event.
[20:44.390 --> 20:45.310]  And I can start.
[20:45.490 --> 20:48.110]  We had three simultaneous tracks with a whole bunch of speakers.
[20:48.370 --> 20:53.890]  We had a really interesting keynote discussion with a Facebook whistleblower named Sophie Zhang.
[20:54.350 --> 20:55.850]  Very, very interesting talk.
[20:56.090 --> 20:57.090]  She was so awesome.
[20:57.270 --> 20:57.890]  But over 70 different talks.
[20:58.010 --> 20:59.010]  She was incredible.
[20:59.030 --> 21:01.410]  I was just fixated to the screen.
[21:01.550 --> 21:02.490]  I wasn't actually in the room.
[21:03.090 --> 21:05.230]  The streaming was flawless, by the way.
[21:05.330 --> 21:08.310]  We were able to watch it from anywhere on site or even in the world.
[21:08.510 --> 21:12.890]  But just watching her keynote address on Saturday was simply incredible.
[21:13.030 --> 21:14.010]  Such an amazing person.
[21:14.010 --> 21:15.190]  Such a courageous person.
[21:16.990 --> 21:17.870]  Really inspirational.
[21:18.230 --> 21:22.450]  And all of those talks were streamed live, but they were also recorded.
[21:22.450 --> 21:26.570]  So you can find them, you will be able to find them on channel 2600 on YouTube.
[21:26.930 --> 21:30.070]  I don't know what the ETA is, but probably within about a month or so.
[21:30.250 --> 21:31.810]  So keep your eyes open for that.
[21:31.970 --> 21:33.450]  It'll be sooner than that, Greg.
[21:34.390 --> 21:36.310]  We're sort of wading through them right now.
[21:36.570 --> 21:38.390]  We have some things to say about YouTube.
[21:38.390 --> 21:39.750]  We'll get to that a little bit later.
[21:39.750 --> 21:42.270]  But we're making it work.
[21:42.430 --> 21:43.810]  I know it's frustrating.
[21:43.950 --> 21:44.970]  They're not there right now.
[21:45.170 --> 21:48.110]  It wasn't our idea to do it that way, but that's how it is.
[21:48.230 --> 21:49.370]  We are working on them.
[21:51.770 --> 21:56.150]  And maybe Mitch can summarize some of the workshops that we saw, because those were also incredibly awesome.
[21:58.110 --> 22:02.490]  Yeah, the workshops were really fun, and it did work really well in the classrooms.
[22:02.790 --> 22:12.490]  We had three simultaneous workshop rooms for scheduled workshops, and we had a room that I called Hardware Hacking Area Room for unscheduled activities, plus villages.
[22:12.890 --> 22:27.790]  That's some that we planned and some that spontaneously cropped up, like Lockpicking Village, which I was really sad that we couldn't make that plan, but one cropped up anyways, which was great, and a lot of people made use of that.
[22:28.290 --> 22:48.350]  I taught personally about 150 people how to solder, and a 15-year-old young woman who calls herself BSI Lab taught lots and lots of people how to solder quite often early in the morning, and people got up early in the morning to go learn to solder with her.
[22:48.730 --> 23:04.350]  And there were all sorts of different workshops, some doing physical things, hardware, and others on more soft things, and even things that are, you know, obliquely, but very much related to what we do, like freedom of information.
[23:04.610 --> 23:19.330]  And we had a couple of those workshops, and how to deal with European law if your data is, you think it might be being misused, GDPR laws, for how corporations use your cookies.
[23:19.630 --> 23:32.010]  All sorts of really interesting talks, very diverse, and I was really glad that so many different people stepped up to the plate and offered what they do to share with all the hope people.
[23:32.350 --> 23:45.690]  Yeah, and there were some last-minute workshops, some that replaced others, because we had so many people that were affected in one way or another by COVID or by flight cancellations.
[23:46.770 --> 23:54.530]  I know one of our security guys hit a pothole in his car and was completely prevented from getting to the conference.
[23:55.190 --> 24:02.230]  All sorts of horrible things happened to keep people away, but so many people were able to make it at the same time.
[24:02.390 --> 24:03.150]  Now, it was smaller.
[24:03.310 --> 24:10.250]  We intentionally kept the number of attendees down so that we could see how this would work the first time.
[24:10.630 --> 24:11.890]  We wanted space.
[24:12.010 --> 24:14.250]  We wanted people to make use of the outdoors as well.
[24:14.430 --> 24:22.010]  We told everybody to wear masks because we don't want anything being spread like at other conferences where they did not do that.
[24:22.150 --> 24:35.770]  We also had a vaccine check, which, you know, we were a little worried that might turn into something contentious, but thanks to the folks over at Operation Hammond who handled that part of it for us.
[24:35.790 --> 24:38.150]  It was separate from the actual conference.
[24:38.350 --> 24:42.490]  No information was saved or transferred or anything like that.
[24:42.610 --> 24:43.550]  Just a quick check.
[24:43.650 --> 24:44.330]  Are you vaccinated?
[24:44.530 --> 24:44.650]  Great.
[24:44.890 --> 24:47.510]  Go on in and hit registration desk.
[24:47.690 --> 24:50.550]  And I don't think we had a single problem.
[24:50.650 --> 24:53.170]  Or if there were problems, I could count them on a couple of fingers.
[25:00.810 --> 25:02.170]  Well, I remember...
[25:02.170 --> 25:03.150]  The spontaneity...
[25:03.150 --> 25:04.130]  Go ahead, Greg.
[25:04.390 --> 25:05.050]  Oh, go ahead, Kyle.
[25:05.630 --> 25:06.210]  Oh, all right.
[25:06.270 --> 25:06.430]  Thanks.
[25:06.510 --> 25:07.890]  I was going to follow up from before.
[25:08.030 --> 25:19.810]  The spontaneity of hope was always really cool, but this time we had enough space and we also sort of upped our technology game and the program so that it got even easier to find people that were like-minded.
[25:19.990 --> 25:21.390]  So you mentioned lock-picking village.
[25:21.670 --> 25:25.570]  There were also some informal soldering sort of classes and activities.
[25:25.910 --> 25:29.810]  There were also villages like the Internet of Things village.
[25:30.130 --> 25:35.510]  In addition, we had this fourth track where people could show up, sign up, and just give a talk on anything.
[25:35.510 --> 25:38.410]  And I'll tell you just one funny thing which was sort of a hacker joke.
[25:38.650 --> 25:48.130]  There was one of the very first talks to sign up was called Hacker Procrastination and they signed up for Friday morning and then put a big X through it and said postponed.
[25:48.750 --> 25:50.550]  And so I liked that.
[25:50.710 --> 25:53.010]  And then they actually did the talk.
[25:53.110 --> 25:56.910]  I confirmed they actually did the talk around 3 o'clock on Sunday afternoon.
[25:57.090 --> 25:58.130]  Wow, I didn't know they did the talk.
[25:58.130 --> 25:59.610]  In the last hour or so of the conference.
[26:00.610 --> 26:02.390]  Wow, that's something.
[26:03.830 --> 26:05.810]  Okay, well, that's kind of cool.
[26:06.230 --> 26:12.950]  We also had, and this is something not everybody knew about, we had a parallel conference going on at the same time.
[26:13.470 --> 26:14.790]  MCH may contain hackers.
[26:14.950 --> 26:18.530]  The hacker camp in the Netherlands was taking place at the same time.
[26:18.570 --> 26:25.750]  What we did was we actually had three rooms set aside for each of their three speaker tracks.
[26:25.810 --> 26:34.530]  And we would start it up at 4 in the morning because that's when 10 o'clock in the morning is in the Netherlands over here.
[26:34.890 --> 26:37.710]  And it would run until about 6 at night our time.
[26:38.110 --> 26:42.070]  So you could go into any of their tracks and watch their talks as well.
[26:42.150 --> 26:47.690]  There was also another room where I believe you could communicate back and forth with people.
[26:47.810 --> 26:49.130]  I think, Volta, you took advantage of that?
[26:51.630 --> 26:54.910]  Yeah, I think that was one of my favorite aspects of the coverage.
[26:55.310 --> 27:05.090]  In fact, I was able to message on single friends that were at MCH who were watching Hope Talks while I was watching MCH Talks.
[27:05.210 --> 27:10.390]  And that was fun to be somewhat live even though we weren't able to be at each other's conferences.
[27:11.190 --> 27:28.130]  And I think that gets to one of my favorite parts about Hope is that compared to a lot of other infosecond hacker conferences in the States were a lot more activist and I guess you could say even political focus as opposed to a lot of purely tactical talks.
[27:30.290 --> 27:35.650]  we have in common with the Dutch Terrier Camps as well as CCC and I think it's what makes us unique.
[27:38.010 --> 27:38.830]  Yes, absolutely.
[27:39.230 --> 27:42.330]  Does anybody else have any interaction with MCH?
[27:47.120 --> 27:48.420]  You have something to say, Alex.
[27:48.480 --> 27:48.680]  Go ahead.
[27:49.380 --> 27:49.820]  Yeah.
[27:50.360 --> 27:53.540]  I was raising my hand before you asked the question.
[27:53.780 --> 27:55.040]  So, yeah, there you have it.
[27:55.340 --> 28:22.000]  But the one other thing I wanted to mention too, which was my panel that I hosted on Friday night at 7 o'clock I just have to say it was such a great time and we were talking about the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act and changes to the Department of Justice's prosecutorial guidelines for essentially hacking offenses and there was this massive change that happened on the 19th of May this year which
[28:22.000 --> 28:35.120]  was for the DOJ now to reinterpret This particular, quote unquote, hacking statute to carve out ethical security research and ethical hacking from being a criminal offense.
[28:35.300 --> 28:48.720]  And so if there was an access of a computer for good faith security research, it's no longer to be prosecuted as a crime per Department of Justice policy, which is a huge change, something that just happened.
[28:48.720 --> 28:58.260]  And we're able to pull together a panel that consisted of Sagar Ravi, who is the co-chief of the Cybercrime Division with the U.S.
[28:58.500 --> 29:00.900]  Attorney's Office of the Southern District of New York here in Manhattan.
[29:01.780 --> 29:20.640]  We also had a supervisory special agent, Joel DiCapua, who also works in the FBI Cyber Division, as well as Jay Kramer, who's a retired supervisory special agent from the FBI and the managing director of the National Cyber Forensics Training Association,
[29:20.640 --> 29:24.240]  and who's also a private practice lawyer for a little while as well.
[29:24.420 --> 29:34.740]  And so we just had this real powerhouse team of people, you know, and I being, you know, the mental midget of the bunch, you know, in this particular group.
[29:34.740 --> 29:36.540]  And we had a great time.
[29:37.480 --> 29:45.400]  As luck would have it, the panel that was after ours or whatever was scheduled last in the evening had canceled.
[29:45.400 --> 29:51.820]  So we were able to spend almost two hours with a packed audience answering questions about the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act.
[29:52.740 --> 30:00.140]  And, Greg, something that you had said to me when we finished the panel, I know you were listening, you know, it really struck a chord with me.
[30:00.260 --> 30:08.880]  And, you know, we addressed things like, you know, really even controversial subjects like, well, you know, do these guidelines come too late?
[30:09.300 --> 30:15.660]  And had these guidelines been in place before, you know, would there have been a tragedy like Aaron Swartz's?
[30:15.900 --> 30:29.040]  You know, and everybody responded to that and had heartfelt and I think really healing responses and kind of bridging the gap between the government and the hacker community, which I think is just so incredibly important.
[30:29.520 --> 30:37.280]  But, you know, one thing that you said to me, Greg, really struck me, was that you could tell that everybody on stage was a man of integrity.
[30:38.420 --> 30:46.940]  And I have to say they felt the same way about Hope and the attendees and the feedback that I got from them was, you know, that it was an incredible conference.
[30:47.080 --> 30:48.040]  They all want T-shirts.
[30:48.220 --> 30:50.960]  They all said that they're going to wear their Hope T-shirts very proudly.
[30:50.960 --> 31:09.200]  And one of the attendees, once we were going through the vaccination check and getting his badge, you know, and, you know, a tall woman kind of in a goth type outfit on rollerblades came passing by and he just looked around and he said, wow, this is a really different conference,
[31:09.360 --> 31:09.600]  isn't it?
[31:09.660 --> 31:11.120]  This place is really cool.
[31:11.300 --> 31:15.880]  And so that just kind of set the stage for the rest of the weekend for me.
[31:15.880 --> 31:25.740]  And I know that all of my attendees that aren't normal, all of the members of the panel that I put together who aren't normal Hope attendees just had an awesome time.
[31:26.460 --> 31:28.640]  Now, Greg, I know you did a talk as well.
[31:28.720 --> 31:29.860]  You want to tell us something about that?
[31:32.320 --> 31:33.020]  Well, sure.
[31:33.240 --> 31:39.800]  This was sort of a mixture talk, but it was primarily about the technology involved.
[31:39.800 --> 31:49.180]  It was about the proof of vaccination credential that I was involved with with the Canadian government as someone that works for one of the provincial or territorial governments.
[31:49.500 --> 32:00.780]  And this is a really cool technology that basically uses a QR code to standardize how you can communicate whether you have the necessary vaccinations for a particular purpose.
[32:01.020 --> 32:13.640]  And so as you can imagine, one side is, okay, how do we make this sort of foolproof and fraud proof so that when someone presents this, it's not as easy to fake as one of those little vaccination receipt cards you get from, you know, Walmart or wherever you got vaccinated.
[32:14.520 --> 32:27.780]  And the other thing is, well, we'd like to be able to automatically apply the policy so that when you see one of these QR codes, you can have a little app or a, you know, program on your computer that says, okay, I've read in these vaccinations.
[32:27.780 --> 32:30.400]  Do they meet the requirements of wherever I happen to be?
[32:30.400 --> 32:35.380]  And of course, in New York, you have the Excelsior pass, which does the exact same thing, uses the same standard.
[32:35.580 --> 32:40.580]  And then there's an Excelsior scanner app that's used by places that need to confirm.
[32:40.940 --> 32:52.900]  So that's really what my talk was about, the technology involved, the technology of the apps, the ability to have policy, and the cooperation at the national and international level to make this happen.
[32:52.900 --> 32:56.160]  And there were two things that I think are good takeaways there.
[32:57.620 --> 33:04.600]  One is that the people I was involved with in the apps and the QR code are extremely privacy-preserving.
[33:04.900 --> 33:10.580]  And one thing that's neat and I learned a lot about is that the Apple and Google stores do a code review.
[33:10.740 --> 33:16.720]  And if you're doing something that's even remotely related to health care or COVID, they review the heck out of this thing.
[33:16.760 --> 33:18.260]  And they ask a lot of questions.
[33:18.260 --> 33:20.000]  You have to fill out a number of different forms.
[33:20.000 --> 33:26.900]  And if they have concerns that you're, for example, sharing data or storing data, and you say you're not, then you can't even get it into the store.
[33:27.140 --> 33:29.560]  And so these apps do not store data.
[33:29.700 --> 33:30.780]  They don't turn on the camera.
[33:30.920 --> 33:32.160]  They disable screenshots.
[33:32.160 --> 33:35.060]  They do a whole bunch of stuff to preserve privacy.
[33:35.060 --> 33:36.040]  And that was really impressive.
[33:36.340 --> 33:37.600]  And the other thing...
[33:37.600 --> 33:39.880]  So privacy by design is what I'm talking about.
[33:40.060 --> 33:51.400]  And the other thing that I learned, because this was my first time working closely with the federal government, in this case it was Canada, but also these provincial and territorial, which are sort of the equivalent of states in the U.S.
[33:51.760 --> 34:00.080]  But all of these government folks, all they wanted to do was preserve privacy and make it easier for citizens to follow the guidelines.
[34:00.360 --> 34:01.420]  There was no politicking.
[34:01.540 --> 34:02.560]  There was no grandstanding.
[34:02.780 --> 34:07.460]  There was very much a focus on getting things done.
[34:07.540 --> 34:21.360]  And it was a cooperation between the health policy people, so the people that run hospitals and health care and vaccination clinics and stuff like that, and the technology folks like me that are trying to say, okay, let's take what you want to do and get it all to work.
[34:21.480 --> 34:23.160]  So it was really kind of an inspiring process.
[34:23.160 --> 34:28.540]  And it was really a pleasure to share that process and the technology behind it with the HOPAA audience.
[34:28.880 --> 34:29.880]  It was really fascinating.
[34:29.940 --> 34:37.100]  And just, you know, your involvement in that and why that's so relevant today, how it affects so many people.
[34:37.340 --> 34:39.040]  It's great to be able to share that.
[34:39.640 --> 34:44.500]  Now, Liz, you were behind the information desk for much of the conference.
[34:44.500 --> 34:47.100]  In fact, I think every time I looked there, there you were.
[34:47.700 --> 34:50.980]  I hope you got to experience a lot of the conference as well.
[34:51.100 --> 34:56.240]  But can you tell us what it was like being behind the info desk, what kinds of questions people would come up to you with?
[34:57.200 --> 34:57.640]  Sure.
[34:58.440 --> 35:03.080]  A lot of the questions that we got mostly were like, where's registration?
[35:03.080 --> 35:09.620]  Because when you walked in, the first desk you actually saw was information desk, not registration or the vaccine check.
[35:10.180 --> 35:15.620]  So it was go through the glass doors, desk is on the left, then come back out, make a right, that's registration.
[35:16.180 --> 35:23.800]  I usually said registration was the bigger desk that I was supposed to have, but a couple of people found that a little funny at least.
[35:25.680 --> 35:31.140]  It was a lot of the people who were signing up for Fourth Track Talk, they actually also came to us.
[35:31.140 --> 35:38.240]  We prepared those schedules for Fourth Track for, I think it was like the different rooms.
[35:38.320 --> 35:42.100]  They also had like printed out signage that we handled.
[35:43.740 --> 35:49.160]  And I guess like the unscheduled thing that I did, I actually wound up doing some resume reviews.
[35:49.360 --> 35:50.860]  I popped on Matrix.
[35:51.120 --> 35:54.920]  I was like, hey, you know, if you're looking to have your resume reviewed, I could do that.
[35:55.580 --> 35:57.680]  And I got to talk with a couple of people.
[35:57.680 --> 36:04.360]  And even though it's only been a couple of days post-conference, one person has a mentor already to go to their chosen company.
[36:04.560 --> 36:15.120]  Another person, another person's already in the application process for his dream company, which was kind of wild for it to happen so quickly.
[36:15.580 --> 36:25.100]  And it's actually something that Dan and I were talking about making a whole workshop, just going through resumes for Next Hope.
[36:25.400 --> 36:25.620]  Wow.
[36:25.940 --> 36:26.720]  That's pretty awesome.
[36:26.720 --> 36:35.720]  You know, one thing I noticed with the InfoDesk this time, it was so much more on the main drag, so to say.
[36:36.100 --> 36:36.300]  Yeah.
[36:36.300 --> 36:37.880]  People had to pass by it.
[36:38.000 --> 36:39.540]  Before you had to sort of seek it out.
[36:39.720 --> 36:40.980]  But there, you know, it was...
[36:40.980 --> 36:45.780]  And it actually is an information desk too, because St. John's has an information desk in that building.
[36:46.180 --> 36:48.300]  So we didn't have to make a new sign or anything like that.
[36:48.420 --> 36:49.220]  It already said information.
[36:49.520 --> 36:50.780]  So it just...
[36:50.780 --> 36:51.960]  It seemed to work out.
[36:52.060 --> 36:54.320]  People knew exactly where to go to ask questions.
[36:54.320 --> 37:00.720]  And I think they were well-directed to go wherever they needed to go.
[37:01.620 --> 37:02.180]  Thank you.
[37:02.380 --> 37:02.820]  But wow.
[37:03.200 --> 37:08.980]  That was just one of many parts of the conference we didn't have before.
[37:08.980 --> 37:11.820]  We had a whole coffee shop to ourselves, which was kind of neat.
[37:11.820 --> 37:15.540]  We used that as an unscheduled track as well.
[37:16.540 --> 37:17.580]  We had...
[37:18.020 --> 37:20.960]  Well, I guess we should talk about the t-shirts.
[37:21.120 --> 37:23.840]  The t-shirts from Stefan in North Macedonia.
[37:24.180 --> 37:24.700]  Yes.
[37:24.880 --> 37:26.520]  They really turned out great, I think.
[37:27.020 --> 37:28.720]  Yeah, they're absolutely beautiful.
[37:30.380 --> 37:33.960]  I've actually known Stefan because we go back on IRC for years.
[37:35.060 --> 37:37.880]  And he mentioned that he had done the art for them.
[37:37.880 --> 37:39.340]  And I was like, oh, okay, yeah, sure.
[37:40.940 --> 37:45.720]  And I was like, it took me a couple of minutes to like, wait a minute.
[37:46.260 --> 37:47.820]  I know this person.
[37:48.560 --> 37:50.740]  But yeah, they turned out so beautifully.
[37:51.120 --> 37:53.840]  And yeah, it's...
[37:53.840 --> 37:55.700]  I mean, I can't go on more about them.
[37:57.240 --> 37:58.360]  Yeah, they're really nice.
[37:58.540 --> 37:58.680]  Yeah.
[37:58.840 --> 38:01.140]  Well, you can see what they look like by looking at the website, hope.net.
[38:01.240 --> 38:04.260]  I don't know if we have any extra, but if we do, we'll certainly let people know.
[38:04.440 --> 38:05.960]  And a lot of people were involved.
[38:05.960 --> 38:13.300]  There was a lot of feedback from the organizers and the volunteer leaders.
[38:14.100 --> 38:20.360]  And Stefan was really patient with us as we incorporated different ideas.
[38:21.340 --> 38:29.880]  I know Greg had some great ideas that came along, helped us with our space design on the back, I think.
[38:30.640 --> 38:31.480]  And yeah, it was...
[38:31.480 --> 38:34.140]  And you said something at closing ceremonies, which was just so amazing.
[38:34.140 --> 38:36.220]  Because there we were, we had some people on the screen.
[38:36.820 --> 38:39.480]  And you said, you know, Stefan, I've never seen you before.
[38:39.720 --> 38:42.080]  And it's true because he's in North Macedonia.
[38:42.080 --> 38:42.740]  We're here.
[38:42.920 --> 38:46.560]  We work through email and sometimes maybe a Zoom call.
[38:46.700 --> 38:48.420]  Though I don't think he was ever on a Zoom call.
[38:48.560 --> 38:50.680]  I talked to him once or twice.
[38:50.920 --> 38:53.320]  I'd never heard his voice before and I'd never seen him.
[38:53.400 --> 39:01.540]  So it was that kind of a conference where you're just working with people, but you don't necessarily see them or certainly you don't get to hang out with them.
[39:01.840 --> 39:03.880]  But I think we made that work.
[39:04.020 --> 39:09.760]  But one thing that we really were able to prove is that we have space.
[39:10.160 --> 39:13.980]  You know, we could easily have two or maybe three times as many people there.
[39:14.520 --> 39:20.280]  And now we know better ways to utilize the space and, you know, to try new things.
[39:20.280 --> 39:24.260]  And if we had, you know, five times as many people, there's more places we can go.
[39:24.440 --> 39:25.600]  It's a college campus.
[39:25.700 --> 39:27.400]  It just seems to keep expanding.
[39:27.760 --> 39:30.760]  So it's magic in that way.
[39:31.400 --> 39:32.100]  Oh, yeah.
[39:32.100 --> 39:43.020]  And I think a lot of people's experience, especially volunteers and people helping coordinate different parts of the event, were integrating it as much as they could.
[39:43.180 --> 39:44.820]  You know, what spaces were there?
[39:45.220 --> 39:49.540]  Like you were talking about the info desk and so on.
[39:49.540 --> 39:54.820]  Just basically kind of making it our own, making it something that people would be...
[39:54.820 --> 39:57.940]  They would recognize as a hope fixture.
[39:58.460 --> 40:03.260]  And, yeah, the ergonomics of it were just sort of...
[40:03.260 --> 40:05.820]  We were figuring it out as we go.
[40:06.040 --> 40:29.500]  And a lot of people, I think, felt that that added space left room for a lot more creative and, I think, relaxing, which is what these kinds of events should be to some degree, because a lot of people are working and trying to find time to get away and go and share with people they haven't seen in a while and watch some talks.
[40:29.620 --> 40:32.920]  So it's crucial that we take a little bit of a break.
[40:32.920 --> 40:37.700]  Like, the same thing was true with having all the IT infrastructure and not having to build everything from the ground out.
[40:37.860 --> 40:39.480]  Having resources is a good thing.
[40:39.780 --> 40:49.000]  Now, Greg, I know you have to get on a plane pretty soon, but we really have to talk about AV and the magic our team pulled together, because that was nothing short of incredible.
[40:51.440 --> 40:54.820]  Well, of course, every time we do this event, it's a miracle and it's impossible.
[40:54.820 --> 40:57.540]  And we do it anyway, because that's what we do.
[40:57.840 --> 41:03.040]  And in this particular instance at St. John's, we had a couple of rooms that were kind of shells.
[41:03.380 --> 41:15.220]  And we had an audio-visual team led by Chaos and Jason and a few other key people that are experienced in theater, they're experienced with electronics, they're experienced in different areas.
[41:15.600 --> 41:17.400]  And so they come in with the design.
[41:17.680 --> 41:23.740]  They rent a whole bunch of stuff from a number of different rental companies, things like draperies and lights and sound systems.
[41:23.740 --> 41:28.260]  And they make a plan, and they show up, and they build it on site.
[41:28.440 --> 41:32.400]  And I hope we get some photos out on the live stream.
[41:32.540 --> 41:35.360]  Of course, you'll be able to see that eventually on the YouTube as well.
[41:35.460 --> 41:39.780]  But these were theatrical-grade experiences.
[41:39.780 --> 41:48.480]  They had just fantastic lighting, wonderful sound system, booming, booming audio when we had some performances late at night.
[41:48.480 --> 41:54.180]  And it turned basically an empty shell into something like a concert venue.
[41:54.200 --> 41:55.220]  So really inspirational.
[41:55.480 --> 41:58.920]  And one thing that's neat about this, I want to make sure we talk a little bit about volunteering.
[41:59.360 --> 42:06.520]  One thing that's neat about this is that the AV crew, because they're so experienced, can take in volunteers that are relatively new.
[42:06.720 --> 42:07.880]  You know, they don't know too much.
[42:08.080 --> 42:12.900]  Maybe they're not even ready to hold a wrench or plug in some electricity.
[42:12.900 --> 42:22.600]  But these folks that are brand new can actually get a whole lot done in terms of laying out the cables and setting up the truss and helping to spot the ladders and stuff like that.
[42:22.760 --> 42:25.720]  And I like to tell people, this is how I got involved in Hope.
[42:25.860 --> 42:31.240]  Back in the year 2000 at H2K, I showed up, and I was on the agenda, so I gave a talk.
[42:31.240 --> 42:32.800]  But I was kind of interested in helping out.
[42:33.060 --> 42:35.200]  And before I knew it, I was standing behind a camera.
[42:35.360 --> 42:39.360]  And before I knew it, I was talking with the AV lead and helping to break down.
[42:39.540 --> 42:41.340]  And the rest is history after that.
[42:41.340 --> 42:44.700]  So it was a fantastic experience and really, really wonderful production.
[42:44.980 --> 42:47.020]  And let's mention the streaming also.
[42:47.300 --> 42:48.740]  People saw the streaming.
[42:49.000 --> 42:57.640]  This was done by a group called Sonos, which we got introduced to by a conference called MagFest, another conference where we know some folks.
[42:57.840 --> 43:07.580]  So the Sonos group brought in a ton of AV gear, a whole wall full of laptops and cables and hard drives and all kinds of things.
[43:07.580 --> 43:20.800]  And these folks did a streaming experience, which was absolutely consistent with, like, a major commercial streaming operation that you would see for, you know, a $1,000 or $2,000 per person conference.
[43:20.800 --> 43:29.200]  So the production value of the conference this time, on-site and for streaming, went up at least one or two notches.
[43:29.200 --> 43:37.180]  And it was thanks to the hard work of all these volunteers that brought in the fantastic equipment, experience, and also, as I said, invited volunteers to help out.
[43:37.680 --> 43:38.440]  You're welcome, Mark.
[43:38.580 --> 43:39.020]  I'm here.
[43:39.820 --> 43:40.760]  Is that your flight?
[43:41.740 --> 43:47.760]  It's simply incredible what we're able to pull off when we have dedication and skill combined.
[43:47.760 --> 43:58.040]  And on that subject, you might be hearing the musical notes of Cameron Glass, who once again put together the intermission music between talks, where you go from one track to another.
[43:58.780 --> 44:03.060]  And it just kind of defines the conference in so many ways.
[44:03.380 --> 44:19.820]  And in addition to that, we had all sorts of performances upstairs late at night, which were very well received, we had Radio Wonderland, we had Dent, who is also Cameron Glass, a whole bunch of others.
[44:20.440 --> 44:23.940]  Did anybody attend these conferences?
[44:24.060 --> 44:25.800]  I know it's kind of late for some of us.
[44:27.260 --> 44:35.020]  Inverse phase, the demo scene shows that were also extended from some talks.
[44:36.360 --> 44:37.840]  What was the other one?
[44:38.320 --> 44:39.480]  Friday night.
[44:39.920 --> 44:41.240]  Oh, here's a program.
[44:41.640 --> 44:46.060]  We have printed programs, which is something else that many conferences don't do.
[44:46.560 --> 44:53.340]  But everybody was holding the printed programs so they could see where they should go next and just how many things they had to choose from.
[44:53.540 --> 44:57.760]  It's great to be virtual, but it's also good to have physical paper sometimes.
[45:00.160 --> 45:02.300]  Yeah, but this is unscheduled stuff.
[45:02.340 --> 45:03.020]  Oh, it's unscheduled.
[45:03.180 --> 45:03.300]  I'm sorry.
[45:03.360 --> 45:04.020]  That's not on paper.
[45:04.340 --> 45:09.300]  I noticed that Greg is not with us anymore, so maybe he was forced onto his plane.
[45:09.780 --> 45:10.960]  Oh, no, I see light.
[45:11.160 --> 45:14.180]  He's probably running down the hallway now.
[45:15.460 --> 45:18.040]  Okay, I guess now is as good a time as any since we're running out of time.
[45:18.060 --> 45:21.080]  We will be on overtime at 8 o'clock on YouTube.
[45:21.080 --> 45:46.720]  But let's talk about YouTube because if there is any negative part of the conference, it was at one point during Saturday night when we had this really incredible talk that was focusing on hacker representation in both TV and cinema.
[45:47.360 --> 45:48.440]  It was fascinating.
[45:48.720 --> 45:49.680]  A lot of people were watching it.
[45:49.720 --> 45:51.500]  A lot of people all around the world were watching it.
[45:51.620 --> 46:06.160]  But Google decided, Google owns YouTube, they decided that this was running afoul of their ultra-paranoid copyright restrictions because we were using fair use to show clips of movies and TV shows.
[46:06.820 --> 46:10.840]  And we got one warning, and then five minutes later, they shut down the entire stream.
[46:11.120 --> 46:21.920]  And by shutting down the entire stream in that particular track, what they did was they wiped away the ability for anybody to go back and see talks that had already happened.
[46:21.920 --> 46:38.820]  And there was absolutely nothing that we could do about it, except hope that it didn't happen again because if it happened a second time, they would have cut off all three of our streams and we wouldn't be able to post again for a full week, including that this show wouldn't be able to air on YouTube at 8 o'clock.
[46:38.820 --> 46:40.720]  So it's just insane.
[46:41.160 --> 46:51.660]  It just shows how evil Google has become with this really, really restrictive policy that they have, where people are afraid to even show an image for a second.
[46:52.680 --> 46:56.680]  I guess it's an indication of just where we have to apply pressure.
[46:57.320 --> 47:05.400]  Today, we were looking into how to review what happened, and there's a process on YouTube where you do that.
[47:05.900 --> 47:12.900]  And we followed all the steps, and they said, you can review your material to see if you want to repeal.
[47:13.380 --> 47:19.940]  And we got to the page where we were supposed to review the material, and they simply said, thank you for reviewing the material.
[47:20.340 --> 47:21.320]  Do you want to repeal?
[47:21.400 --> 47:23.080]  We never got to see the material.
[47:23.580 --> 47:25.240]  Very Soviet-esque, you know.
[47:25.460 --> 47:27.580]  We were not able to actually look at the evidence.
[47:27.700 --> 47:29.100]  We were just told we were guilty.
[47:29.540 --> 47:31.120]  So that was something.
[47:31.180 --> 47:32.320]  I don't want to spend too much time on that.
[47:32.320 --> 47:36.860]  It was an outside source that just didn't get who we were.
[47:38.240 --> 47:38.640]  Typical.
[47:38.780 --> 47:39.400]  Typical, I guess.
[47:39.680 --> 47:40.720]  Greg, I see you're back.
[47:40.820 --> 47:42.000]  It looks like you're on a plane.
[47:42.040 --> 47:42.560]  Is that true?
[47:45.020 --> 47:45.780]  Yes, I am.
[47:45.900 --> 47:53.860]  Thanks to the miracles of modern technology, I actually dropped off the airport Wi-Fi and got onto the mobile network as I walked down the gangway.
[47:54.020 --> 47:56.420]  So I'm comfortable here probably for another five or ten minutes with you.
[47:56.760 --> 48:00.960]  Sorry, I won't join off the hook, but I don't think we support streaming on the aircraft yet.
[48:02.200 --> 48:04.640]  Probably not, but if anyone's going to find out, it'll be you.
[48:04.960 --> 48:14.560]  Since we're in the last couple of minutes, and Liz, since you don't have video, I'm going to give you the opportunity to say some last words.
[48:14.740 --> 48:16.280]  And anyone else, just raise your hand.
[48:16.500 --> 48:16.900]  Go ahead, Liz.
[48:17.380 --> 48:17.640]  Sure.
[48:18.580 --> 48:23.460]  If you're wondering, you know, if you're, like, nervous about volunteering, please do.
[48:23.460 --> 48:27.940]  This has been the fourth Hope I've attended and the third I volunteered at.
[48:28.640 --> 48:30.960]  It's always such a great experience.
[48:31.160 --> 48:32.020]  Please, please do.
[48:32.320 --> 48:34.860]  The conference needs volunteers to run.
[48:37.680 --> 48:39.360]  And we can always use the help.
[48:39.460 --> 48:43.840]  You don't need to know how to, you know, hack the government or anything ridiculous like that.
[48:43.840 --> 48:50.660]  But, you know, just being able to be there with a smiling face and giving someone directions, that can be a big help.
[48:51.880 --> 49:02.200]  Also, I just want to give a special shout out to the attendees because this would not have been as excellent as it was if it wasn't for the people who are attending and making that warm, welcoming environment.
[49:02.200 --> 49:08.300]  It was absolutely healing after the 2018 conference.
[49:08.500 --> 49:09.200]  Absolutely healing.
[49:09.680 --> 49:11.480]  We all needed this.
[49:12.140 --> 49:12.440]  Yeah.
[49:12.480 --> 49:19.800]  And, you know, I'm taking this energy and I'm putting it toward, you know, a thousand different projects that needed to happen.
[49:20.200 --> 49:23.180]  So it's going to get busy for me.
[49:23.260 --> 49:24.180]  But that's a good thing.
[49:24.240 --> 49:24.960]  I like being busy.
[49:25.240 --> 49:26.940]  What a terrific audience we had.
[49:27.160 --> 49:29.860]  They were just so incredible, really into it.
[49:30.020 --> 49:31.900]  No incidents that I'm aware of.
[49:32.200 --> 49:35.280]  And just everything that the hacker community can be.
[49:35.380 --> 49:38.240]  And it's through them that we're going to build something even bigger and better.
[49:39.160 --> 49:39.620]  Yeah.
[49:39.840 --> 49:40.120]  Absolutely.
[49:40.840 --> 49:42.960]  And, but to do that, we need people.
[49:43.100 --> 49:45.720]  We were, I'll be honest, we were short.
[49:46.520 --> 49:47.420]  That's probably why I was...
[49:47.420 --> 49:47.440]  Oh, yeah.
[49:47.440 --> 49:47.800]  Big time.
[49:47.920 --> 49:48.760]  This was a miracle.
[49:49.400 --> 49:58.320]  We had some people commit to being at InfoDesk, you know, my usual friends, who unfortunately for a variety of reasons couldn't make it.
[49:58.500 --> 49:58.620]  Yeah.
[49:58.620 --> 50:02.740]  So on Sunday, it was just, it was just basically, you know, three people.
[50:02.980 --> 50:06.480]  So I just hung out and let my other people go to talks.
[50:06.660 --> 50:07.760]  Because I was, I was fine.
[50:07.940 --> 50:11.040]  It was me and the glass wall and, you know, that was fine.
[50:11.040 --> 50:12.880]  And we're down to our last couple of seconds.
[50:13.120 --> 50:15.940]  Everybody is welcome to join us in overtime in a few minutes.
[50:16.080 --> 50:18.660]  But Greg, you're actually on an airplane that might be taking off.
[50:18.780 --> 50:21.840]  So I'm going to give you a second to say any final words.
[50:24.890 --> 50:25.850]  Well, thanks very much.
[50:26.010 --> 50:30.470]  I wanted to go back to the artwork and talk about the symbolism behind that.
[50:30.470 --> 50:39.910]  So a lot of people that are listening to Off the Hook every week on WBAI, wonderful WBAI, know that this is a radio show that's part of an organization, 2600.
[50:40.130 --> 50:41.650]  Hope is part of the same organization.
[50:42.130 --> 50:49.690]  This is an organization with beliefs about the value of science, about the value of being vaccinated, about following guidelines for your own personal health.
[50:49.690 --> 50:56.250]  And the symbolism with the owl and then also with the pioneer plaque on the back of the T-shirt.
[50:56.430 --> 51:08.150]  This is really all about saying that this is an event that stands for some values and is open to a whole lot of different interpretations of, you know, what might make a great conference.
[51:08.770 --> 51:24.430]  What we found was that the attendees that showed up not only bought into that, you know, not only were, you know, happy to go along with that essence, but also they were really there, I felt that attendees were really there to build a community.
[51:24.750 --> 51:34.630]  People have been locked up in COVID land for a while and they wanted to get out, enjoy each other, build that community, and think a little bit about how to build a brighter future for themselves.
[51:34.890 --> 51:39.270]  So this was, to me, very tangible at the event and very much appreciated.
[51:39.450 --> 51:46.050]  And it went all the way from the symbolism through the opening ceremonies and messaging before that all the way through to the end of the conference.
[51:46.050 --> 51:53.370]  And that, to me, was... it's always life-changing, but that, to me, was extra inspirational to have the attendees with that approach to this event.
[51:53.890 --> 51:57.570]  Well, I can't thank all of you enough for making this happen.
[51:57.570 --> 52:02.150]  And we are going to continue the conversation at 8 o'clock on Channel 2600 on YouTube.
[52:02.150 --> 52:03.390]  We'll try to get Greg.
[52:03.630 --> 52:06.530]  He'll be on a plane, but we'll see if we can make that happen.
[52:06.650 --> 52:09.230]  And, of course, we'll be taking your phone calls, which are already coming in.
[52:10.030 --> 52:14.310]  And just a final note, thank you to Queens.
[52:14.590 --> 52:17.550]  Queens, the most awesome borough in the country.
[52:17.570 --> 52:21.530]  And also, Norman Lear is 100 today.
[52:21.590 --> 52:26.790]  So I think the two of those things can sort of combine into our closing piece.
[52:27.290 --> 52:29.650]  OTH at 2600.com is our email address.
[52:30.430 --> 52:33.970]  We'll see you next week, and we'll see you in a few minutes on YouTube.
[52:33.970 --> 52:37.950]  And enjoy our closing theme tonight in honor of Queens.
[00:00.620 --> 00:13.460]  And here we are on YouTube where people can call us and we can talk more about the things that we've talked about in the last hour or so to make sure everybody made it over.
[00:13.660 --> 00:14.900]  Sometimes we don't.
[00:15.520 --> 00:17.010]  Okay, I press that button.
[00:17.650 --> 00:19.420]  Kyle, I see you're here.
[00:20.260 --> 00:21.300]  Voltaire, I see you.
[00:22.190 --> 00:26.170]  I see Mitch in the distance there in the same room.
[00:27.830 --> 00:29.040]  Why do I see Mitch?
[00:29.040 --> 00:29.400]  Mitch has left.
[00:30.220 --> 00:30.800]  Wait a minute, Mitch.
[00:30.850 --> 00:31.600]  I just saw him.
[00:31.670 --> 00:32.170]  He didn't leave.
[00:32.200 --> 00:33.000]  He's right behind you.
[00:33.160 --> 00:33.760]  Well, he was.
[00:34.800 --> 00:36.060]  That was him walking out the door?
[00:38.990 --> 00:40.430]  Yeah, you're muted, Voltaire.
[00:42.310 --> 00:43.170]  Mitch has to depart.
[00:43.270 --> 00:43.850]  He found a TV.
[00:43.990 --> 00:44.650]  He had to turn off.
[00:44.850 --> 00:45.610]  It's far away.
[00:46.390 --> 00:48.370]  Couldn't stick around 10 seconds to say goodbye, huh?
[00:48.530 --> 00:48.890]  Wow.
[00:49.110 --> 00:50.350]  I saw him leaving.
[00:50.490 --> 00:51.690]  I saw him walking out the door.
[00:52.130 --> 00:52.310]  Okay.
[00:52.650 --> 00:54.190]  Alex, you're still here.
[00:54.410 --> 00:54.830]  Thank you.
[00:55.570 --> 00:56.790]  Yeah, temporarily, yeah.
[00:57.810 --> 00:59.710]  And Liz, I believe you're still here, though.
[00:59.830 --> 01:00.470]  We can't see you.
[01:01.330 --> 01:02.150]  Yes, I'm still here.
[01:02.250 --> 01:02.410]  All right.
[01:02.470 --> 01:02.950]  Well, that's great.
[01:03.810 --> 01:08.850]  Greg has inconsiderately gotten onto an airplane, so I don't know if we'll be seeing him.
[01:09.330 --> 01:13.210]  But if he can reach us, he will do so.
[01:13.310 --> 01:13.890]  I know he will.
[01:14.970 --> 01:15.930]  He knows a number.
[01:16.370 --> 01:16.830]  Yeah, he does.
[01:16.930 --> 01:17.450]  He knows a number.
[01:17.570 --> 01:17.890]  All of them.
[01:18.770 --> 01:20.870]  And a number for people to call.
[01:21.470 --> 01:27.870]  Not that we're not people, but, you know, people on the outside, if they want to speak to us about hope or about anything else that's going on.
[01:27.870 --> 01:31.650]  8-0-2-3-2-1-4-2-2-5.
[01:31.850 --> 01:33.910]  That's 8-0-2-3-2-1-Hack.
[01:37.630 --> 01:46.690]  And did anybody have anything they wanted to continue talking about before we were hustled off the air?
[01:49.550 --> 01:50.590]  Yes, Walter, go ahead.
[01:52.110 --> 01:58.730]  One thing that I'd like to add is, we were talking about, Alex was talking about, like, how it's such a cool scene at night at the bar afterward.
[01:59.370 --> 02:10.810]  One thing I really like about Hope, especially compared to other hackocons, is that, especially, like, personally, I'm not a big drinker, but Hope is, like, there are people that, like, if you drink, that's cool and stuff for you.
[02:10.810 --> 02:20.150]  But there's also, even up until really late, there's always activities for people that don't drink, and it's, like, it's really friendly towards that.
[02:20.610 --> 02:28.010]  And, like, seeing the concerts going until really late in the morning, I only saw them briefly, but it was, like, a great scene, and everybody was having a good time.
[02:28.110 --> 02:36.290]  I even got some people to go to a rave afterward, and, like, going straight from the chiptunes thing to the rave was, it just felt really natural.
[02:36.290 --> 02:36.870]  Uh-huh.
[02:37.270 --> 02:37.530]  Uh-huh.
[02:37.710 --> 02:39.250]  Yeah, that makes sense.
[02:39.630 --> 02:39.790]  It does.
[02:40.970 --> 02:42.610]  Do we have a call, Kyle?
[02:44.530 --> 02:46.390]  Someone attempted to call, but it was not...
[02:46.390 --> 02:47.850]  They attempted to call, but they weren't able to...
[02:47.850 --> 02:48.890]  It was not a sustained call.
[02:49.050 --> 02:50.870]  No, it's... Okay, you have to follow through, folks.
[02:51.030 --> 02:52.310]  AL2-321-4225.
[02:52.430 --> 02:52.830]  Go ahead, Alex.
[02:52.930 --> 02:53.890]  I can say where it was.
[02:54.130 --> 02:56.250]  No, we don't spy on our listeners.
[02:57.950 --> 02:59.490]  We don't tell them we do, anyway.
[03:00.370 --> 03:00.990]  What's that, Alex?
[03:01.330 --> 03:16.710]  I wanted to bounce off what Volterra was saying, and, you know, I had this idea of, sort of sitting through and going through various bits of the conference, sitting in different talks, listening to people, meeting people, hanging out inside St. John's,
[03:16.770 --> 03:28.110]  outside St. John's, around Queens, and so, and you almost get this impression that the conference at the start of it is this unpolished stone, or this slab of stone, right?
[03:28.110 --> 03:42.390]  And with so many options, activities, things that are social, cultural, technical, this allows every single attendee to really sculpt the HOPE conference into the experience that you want it to be.
[03:42.950 --> 03:47.190]  You know, it's a fancy way of saying that, you know, there's something there for everybody.
[03:47.190 --> 03:59.530]  And I have to say, just in terms of the social aspect, getting together with people from the cybersecurity industry, the hacker community, the legal community, it was really absolutely awesome.
[03:59.790 --> 04:03.750]  And, you know, I think that the social experience was just second to none.
[04:03.910 --> 04:21.510]  And one thing about HOPE, which isn't necessarily the case with every other type of conference in this space, in particular, is that people like being there, and people are approachable, people are friendly, they want to share knowledge, which is the hacker spirit,
[04:21.530 --> 04:25.830]  and they're extremely generous with their time and their expertise.
[04:26.210 --> 04:36.870]  I mean, I had an experience with a friend of mine, and we were at the, in the vendor area with Printing House Press.
[04:37.270 --> 04:38.150]  What was that?
[04:38.270 --> 04:41.890]  I was getting the name of their, the bookseller, confused.
[04:41.890 --> 04:43.690]  And anyway, we were looking at one of the books over there.
[04:44.410 --> 04:47.630]  And, and this person came up and was like, oh, well, this book is excellent.
[04:47.790 --> 04:51.490]  You know, and you should get this type of volume for it.
[04:51.570 --> 04:52.910]  You know, and volume one has this.
[04:53.050 --> 04:54.050]  Volume two has this.
[04:54.270 --> 05:00.510]  It was, it was really amazing information about this volume of books that I was looking at that had...
[05:00.510 --> 05:04.710]  You're either talking, Alex, you're talking about in-store books or no-starch press.
[05:05.050 --> 05:05.890]  No-starch press.
[05:06.030 --> 05:06.490]  That's what I was thinking.
[05:06.650 --> 05:09.970]  I don't know why it was escaping my mind for the moment, but it was no-starch press.
[05:11.370 --> 05:18.250]  And so when the guy was finished with what sounded to me a bit of a sales pitch, so I said to him, I said, these are great.
[05:18.310 --> 05:19.790]  I said, how much is the whole set?
[05:20.510 --> 05:22.110]  And he said to me, oh, I have no idea.
[05:22.190 --> 05:22.810]  I don't work here.
[05:24.930 --> 05:25.250]  Wow.
[05:25.990 --> 05:29.830]  And he's like, I just love these books, and they're awesome, and you should get them.
[05:29.870 --> 05:30.850]  And I was like, you know what?
[05:30.850 --> 05:31.730]  You're absolutely right.
[05:33.030 --> 05:36.070]  So experiences like that, I just thought, you know, are very unique.
[05:36.830 --> 05:38.810]  I believe we have a telephone call.
[05:38.910 --> 05:39.630]  Let's see who's out there.
[05:39.630 --> 05:40.010]  Good evening.
[05:40.190 --> 05:41.450]  You're on Off the Hook Overtime.
[05:41.550 --> 05:41.830]  Go ahead.
[05:43.450 --> 05:44.390]  Good evening, everybody.
[05:44.410 --> 05:45.050]  How are you?
[05:45.290 --> 05:45.490]  Good.
[05:45.510 --> 05:45.870]  How are you?
[05:45.950 --> 05:46.570]  Where are you calling from?
[05:47.930 --> 05:49.330]  This is Tim from Connecticut.
[05:49.630 --> 05:50.250]  Tim from Connecticut.
[05:51.670 --> 06:00.010]  Yes, I came down and drove around the corner and came over to the St. John's Conference, of course, and stayed in the townhouses, which was great.
[06:00.150 --> 06:02.430]  On campus, easy to get to, easy to get around.
[06:02.750 --> 06:03.950]  We might have seen you.
[06:04.110 --> 06:05.470]  Out of curiosity, I haven't heard anything yet.
[06:05.610 --> 06:07.210]  How did St. John's like us?
[06:08.570 --> 06:10.830]  They haven't cursed us out or anything like that.
[06:10.890 --> 06:11.790]  They haven't said bad things.
[06:11.910 --> 06:13.310]  So I think they liked us.
[06:13.450 --> 06:15.730]  But, you know, we just have to see.
[06:15.830 --> 06:16.430]  We have to see.
[06:16.570 --> 06:19.710]  But I hope it works out because it's a great place.
[06:19.710 --> 06:23.570]  It's a beautiful campus, wonderful people, all sorts of...
[06:23.570 --> 06:24.110]  Free parking.
[06:24.110 --> 06:25.310]  Free parking.
[06:25.630 --> 06:27.490]  And, yeah, I stayed in the townhouses, too.
[06:27.590 --> 06:31.430]  And it was, I mean, it's a dormitory.
[06:31.650 --> 06:32.570]  You're on campus.
[06:32.570 --> 06:33.690]  You can't beat the convenience.
[06:33.970 --> 06:35.270]  You don't have a TV set.
[06:35.390 --> 06:35.630]  Okay.
[06:35.630 --> 06:42.430]  I love the fact that every time you went into any... Well, most of the workrooms, there were plenty of outlets to recharge your equipment.
[06:43.230 --> 06:48.670]  We didn't have to scamper for anything except up in, what, 416 upstairs, the big conference room.
[06:48.670 --> 06:49.010]  Yes.
[06:49.450 --> 06:49.930]  Yeah.
[06:50.390 --> 06:55.410]  And might I say that the AV people that put that together, that was just stunning.
[06:55.670 --> 06:56.210]  It was.
[06:56.650 --> 06:56.940]  Incredible.
[06:57.410 --> 07:05.030]  The braces, the lights, the microphone, just an impressive performance quality.
[07:05.470 --> 07:06.990]  Yeah, they are true artists.
[07:07.210 --> 07:10.330]  What they put together, they just make it work.
[07:10.470 --> 07:11.670]  It's theater quality.
[07:11.670 --> 07:24.350]  I'll say it did take some convincing, but I think we had the confidence, we had the expertise, and we got through a lot of the technical stuff.
[07:24.490 --> 07:29.430]  Because what we're used to and what the university was used to, there are going to be different things.
[07:29.570 --> 07:30.690]  We're a unique event.
[07:30.970 --> 07:38.010]  No one like us has come across, has come to their space before and said, we'd like to have an all-night event.
[07:38.010 --> 07:45.170]  I hope we weren't too traumatic, because the things that we were doing, like you said, Kyle, no one has ever done before in that space.
[07:46.250 --> 07:49.850]  And it's unique, but we always make it work somehow.
[07:50.110 --> 07:51.770]  We had three venues.
[07:51.910 --> 07:55.890]  We had the 416 room that the caller was talking about, the main track.
[07:56.030 --> 08:00.290]  We had the third track in the same building, room 206, I believe.
[08:00.410 --> 08:05.070]  And then we had little theater, which you actually had to walk outside a little bit to get to.
[08:05.070 --> 08:05.710]  And it's a theater.
[08:05.890 --> 08:06.810]  It's an actual theater.
[08:07.310 --> 08:09.150]  And I like that about it a lot.
[08:09.230 --> 08:14.990]  If I remember correctly, somebody made mention that they had to punch a hole in a wall to get the communications gear into the little theater.
[08:15.090 --> 08:16.110]  Well, we didn't do that.
[08:16.250 --> 08:18.550]  Somebody who worked there did something like that.
[08:18.630 --> 08:19.910]  I don't know exactly what they did.
[08:20.090 --> 08:22.030]  I don't, you know, I wasn't there when that happened.
[08:22.030 --> 08:26.410]  But they're improving things by adding connectivity and that kind of stuff.
[08:26.430 --> 08:32.270]  It was a miracle that a pathway was found between spaces.
[08:32.610 --> 08:35.750]  It just appeared by divine intervention.
[08:35.990 --> 08:36.670]  Nothing was broken.
[08:36.790 --> 08:37.610]  Nothing was vandalized.
[08:37.730 --> 08:40.290]  It was really incredible to see this.
[08:40.410 --> 08:43.290]  The most well-behaved crowd I think we've ever had at Hope.
[08:43.430 --> 08:46.690]  And, you know, in the closing ceremonies, I said this, you know, I've been to a lot of Hope's.
[08:46.690 --> 08:47.410]  This is the best one.
[08:47.530 --> 08:47.970]  I mean it.
[08:48.330 --> 08:51.430]  Because this was something that was just so refreshing.
[08:51.730 --> 08:53.090]  We hadn't done it in four years.
[08:53.210 --> 08:55.230]  That's the longest gap between physical hopes.
[08:55.470 --> 08:57.050]  You know, we had the virtual hope in 2020.
[08:57.350 --> 08:58.870]  But this was a big gap.
[08:58.870 --> 09:01.150]  And, you know, we've been through so much.
[09:01.270 --> 09:02.930]  We're so wounded in so many different ways.
[09:03.210 --> 09:05.390]  And we really needed something like this.
[09:05.530 --> 09:09.770]  And I just felt it from so many people that they really got something out of it.
[09:09.870 --> 09:15.370]  We're getting all kinds of feedback from people that really had the time of their lives and can't wait for 2024.
[09:17.250 --> 09:19.250]  I'm one of your Twitter followers.
[09:19.250 --> 09:22.070]  And I'm sorry to hear about the AC in the truck.
[09:22.790 --> 09:23.510]  Oh, yes.
[09:23.690 --> 09:24.650]  The AC in the truck.
[09:25.010 --> 09:25.810]  Just quickly.
[09:26.310 --> 09:27.110]  Has that been resolved?
[09:27.490 --> 09:29.470]  We're still in talks with them.
[09:29.830 --> 09:39.210]  Basically, we rented a truck because we had to bring a lot of things, you know, to the conference from, you know, where we set things up at the warehouse.
[09:40.550 --> 09:42.510]  And we wanted a liftgate.
[09:42.630 --> 09:44.990]  A liftgate is basically something that goes down to ground level.
[09:44.990 --> 09:46.590]  You put heavy things on it.
[09:46.690 --> 09:49.570]  It goes up to where the truck is, you know, to truck level.
[09:49.630 --> 09:51.670]  And then it's on the truck and you don't have to lift it.
[09:52.370 --> 09:58.430]  Well, we did have to lift it because we didn't have a liftgate because for some reason, the pandemic has made liftgates hard to get.
[09:58.610 --> 09:59.670]  Yeah, you got to explain why.
[09:59.830 --> 09:59.930]  I don't know why.
[09:59.930 --> 10:02.950]  Like, there's this whole rush on commercial trucks.
[10:03.130 --> 10:04.530]  Yeah, everyone wants commercial trucks.
[10:04.730 --> 10:06.230]  Basically, shipping companies, they don't want to, like...
[10:06.230 --> 10:06.730]  Makes no sense.
[10:06.730 --> 10:12.450]  They don't want to own them, but they rent them all up when they have, like, bursts of sales or growth or whatever.
[10:12.450 --> 10:15.530]  You know, I sympathize, but for God's sake, sometimes other people need a liftgate.
[10:15.650 --> 10:16.410]  Anyway, we didn't get a liftgate.
[10:16.410 --> 10:16.890]  Yeah, what about the little guy?
[10:16.890 --> 10:18.890]  We had to pay for a liftgate, but we didn't get a liftgate.
[10:18.990 --> 10:20.410]  That didn't seem fair, so there's that.
[10:20.610 --> 10:28.010]  But then, once we drove the truck out of there and I, you know, cranked up the air conditioning because it was the hottest day of the year when we were driving into the city.
[10:28.450 --> 10:33.350]  And, you know, I figure, okay, the truck's been parked in the sun for days, probably.
[10:33.870 --> 10:38.390]  And maybe it just takes time for the air conditioner to, you know, realize it's an air conditioner.
[10:38.970 --> 10:42.630]  And so, for 20 minutes, I had hot air blasting onto me.
[10:42.730 --> 10:43.810]  And then I realized, you know what?
[10:43.870 --> 10:44.630]  This isn't going to happen.
[10:44.810 --> 10:46.670]  I don't have air conditioning in this damn thing.
[10:46.830 --> 10:53.330]  And so, I had to spend the entire day in a truck that had no air conditioning on the hottest day of the year.
[10:53.650 --> 10:55.970]  And I just couldn't put a positive spin on that.
[10:56.050 --> 10:56.770]  So, yeah, I tweeted.
[10:56.770 --> 10:58.950]  I tweeted with some anger there.
[10:59.070 --> 10:59.890]  And I don't regret it.
[11:01.490 --> 11:06.670]  Oh, and at the conference, nobody mentioned that Saturday and Sunday there was free breakfast.
[11:07.510 --> 11:09.610]  Yeah, for the people staying in the dormitories.
[11:10.230 --> 11:16.450]  You know, I didn't get up early enough, or I didn't have time, really, to go down there and take part in that.
[11:16.530 --> 11:17.870]  But I heard good things.
[11:18.190 --> 11:20.650]  And, you know, St. John's is really putting in an effort.
[11:20.750 --> 11:23.030]  Yeah, I mean, it's just a really, really positive experience.
[11:23.290 --> 11:23.530]  Uh-huh.
[11:23.810 --> 11:23.990]  Yeah.
[11:23.990 --> 11:29.430]  One thing that I know we can improve on is directing people to local places to get food.
[11:29.550 --> 11:32.370]  I know there was a terrific pizza place just a block away.
[11:32.370 --> 11:33.930]  A lot of people found that.
[11:34.030 --> 11:43.330]  But there was also a dumpling place or a couple of sushi places or all sorts of different cuisine in walking distance.
[11:43.330 --> 11:49.330]  And then if you hopped into a cab and rode five minutes, all kinds of other things would surface.
[11:50.750 --> 11:51.490]  Voltaire, do you have something?
[11:51.610 --> 11:57.030]  Yeah, I defaulted on Thursday night and just simply called Domino's, went over to Gate 6 and picked up something.
[11:57.250 --> 11:58.430]  Yeah, it doesn't have to be Domino's.
[11:58.570 --> 12:02.450]  Okay, but, yeah, the important thing is to get something that makes you happy.
[12:03.230 --> 12:03.870]  Go ahead, Voltaire.
[12:04.230 --> 12:07.550]  I was going to recommend the Filipino place, like, four blocks away.
[12:07.810 --> 12:08.890]  I didn't know about that.
[12:09.370 --> 12:09.730]  Wow.
[12:09.730 --> 12:10.430]  Yeah, it's super good.
[12:10.430 --> 12:11.670]  Filipino place.
[12:12.110 --> 12:14.830]  You know, we did not have a bad meal the whole time we were there.
[12:15.010 --> 12:15.670]  Right, Kyle?
[12:16.010 --> 12:17.090]  No, not one bad meal.
[12:17.370 --> 12:30.970]  The exploring, I think we were doing our own exploring, and a lot of it is secondhand, hearing how other people coped and what they found in their adventures between the time at the event.
[12:33.730 --> 12:36.510]  Oh, Liz, feel free to jump in any time.
[12:36.710 --> 12:38.370]  I never really walked off the block.
[12:38.530 --> 12:40.010]  Yeah, we can't see you, so...
[12:40.010 --> 12:41.970]  Yeah, I've just been quiet.
[12:43.310 --> 12:47.470]  Being local, I guess, I guess that's my perspective here.
[12:48.710 --> 12:54.490]  Again, we were talking about it a little earlier, the Flushing Business District, or a little Hong Kong, I think it's also called now.
[12:55.030 --> 12:57.290]  It is wild how much is there.
[12:57.290 --> 13:06.630]  I was sending people to Nanjing Xiaolongbao, which is one of the best soup dumpling places you could go to, period.
[13:06.930 --> 13:08.230]  As long as we're going to say names.
[13:08.730 --> 13:14.110]  Okay, now I'll say that we, at 2 o'clock in the morning, wound up in a place called Hope to See You Again.
[13:14.570 --> 13:18.050]  That's literally what the place is called, and we just found it.
[13:18.110 --> 13:22.070]  It was open, and they had the best Szechuan I've had ever, I think.
[13:22.850 --> 13:25.370]  The numbing peppers that are still on the branch.
[13:25.590 --> 13:27.270]  I mean, that is just simply incredible.
[13:27.810 --> 13:28.390]  2 in the morning.
[13:28.530 --> 13:31.310]  I was so happy to be in New York at that point in time.
[13:31.310 --> 13:38.190]  So, and the little Hong Kong that you're referring to is the biggest Chinatown in New York City now.
[13:38.550 --> 13:39.510]  It surpasses Manhattan.
[13:40.290 --> 13:40.510]  Yep.
[13:40.850 --> 13:49.630]  Yeah, and it's actually really funny because it's actively getting built up, but not by Chinese, but by Koreans.
[13:49.930 --> 14:04.450]  So, on Northern Boulevard, it's a little bit of a trek from St. John's, but if you were able to go onto Northern Boulevard, there are dozens of Korean barbecue, Korean fried chicken places.
[14:04.450 --> 14:10.090]  The big one I was sending people to is Mad for Chicken because they're absolutely fantastic.
[14:10.930 --> 14:12.750]  Did you say Maverick Chicken?
[14:13.230 --> 14:14.150]  Mad for Chicken.
[14:14.290 --> 14:22.190]  Oh, I was going to say because Maverick was the name of the security guy at St. John's, who was one of the most awesome people I think we've ever met, just helped us out in so many ways.
[14:23.750 --> 14:25.930]  I've never met anybody named Maverick before, so that was cool.
[14:25.930 --> 14:28.150]  Yeah, that's a pretty bitchin' name.
[14:29.230 --> 14:30.770]  I could say that now because they're on YouTube.
[14:31.210 --> 14:33.150]  You could have said that on radio, too.
[14:33.270 --> 14:34.570]  You just can't say the other words.
[14:35.150 --> 14:36.630]  Oh, the George Carlin words.
[14:36.630 --> 14:37.430]  Yeah, don't say those.
[14:37.570 --> 14:40.930]  In fact, those were said on that radio station, and we got in a lot of trouble.
[14:42.870 --> 14:49.530]  One of the favorite vendors that I saw there was the Tesla Museum.
[14:52.470 --> 14:53.390]  Yeah, Wardenclyffe.
[14:53.570 --> 14:56.590]  Those guys, first of all, all I saw was, yeah, Wardenclyffe.
[14:57.230 --> 14:58.850]  I'm over here in Connecticut.
[14:59.330 --> 15:04.590]  I had no idea where Wardenclyffe was because nothing says Long Island.
[15:05.310 --> 15:07.250]  It's almost right beside the Port Jeff Ferry.
[15:07.450 --> 15:07.710]  Uh-huh.
[15:07.890 --> 15:08.070]  Yeah.
[15:08.610 --> 15:09.210]  That's true.
[15:09.410 --> 15:10.630]  A lot of people out here...
[15:10.630 --> 15:12.510]  Well, I know what I'll paper over there.
[15:12.830 --> 15:15.710]  A lot of people out in Long Island, they don't know where it is, too.
[15:16.170 --> 15:18.450]  They've never heard of it before, and they're amazed.
[15:18.970 --> 15:20.130]  I hadn't.
[15:20.330 --> 15:22.690]  I mean, you know, I've scouted around.
[15:22.890 --> 15:26.370]  I've been, you know, Montauk, a few other places over on the island.
[15:26.550 --> 15:30.590]  Used to work for a retail chain that's no longer in business.
[15:30.710 --> 15:31.530]  Starts with a C.
[15:32.010 --> 15:35.050]  So I went to a lot of their locations.
[15:35.270 --> 15:35.530]  Mm-hmm.
[15:35.690 --> 15:36.910]  Didn't know where Wardenclyffe was.
[15:37.330 --> 15:37.570]  Wow.
[15:39.470 --> 15:40.110]  Well, it's...
[15:40.110 --> 15:40.670]  Anyway...
[15:40.670 --> 15:41.410]  It's an incredible place.
[15:41.790 --> 15:42.790]  I'll let somebody else call in.
[15:42.910 --> 15:46.650]  Thank you for your call, and thanks for coming and enjoying Hope.
[15:46.830 --> 15:48.170]  Thanks for having a great conference.
[15:48.450 --> 15:48.870]  Thank you.
[15:49.430 --> 15:58.010]  You know, the only reason we had a great conference was because of the attendees and the speakers and the presenters of all sorts and just the overall mood.
[15:58.010 --> 15:59.390]  It was simply amazing.
[15:59.810 --> 16:03.090]  And, you know, we may sound a little disjointed.
[16:03.230 --> 16:04.450]  It's because we still are.
[16:04.890 --> 16:10.710]  We put in so much, and it's Wednesday, and we're still trying to find our bearings.
[16:10.730 --> 16:11.170]  Right, Kyle?
[16:11.310 --> 16:17.830]  Yeah, a lot of the organizers, and we all have our different modes and different experiences at the event.
[16:17.830 --> 16:31.570]  And it's vastly different when you're trying to help manage a lot of different things and basically be the glue that connects all these different things together and make sure things are working.
[16:31.570 --> 16:41.850]  And you try to, like, support people, get enough of the supplies and volunteers to be available.
[16:42.150 --> 16:44.350]  And just, it's a lot.
[16:44.470 --> 16:45.730]  There's a lot of moving parts.
[16:45.890 --> 16:51.930]  And especially when you're trying to kind of make it up as you go, you don't know the space as well from experience.
[16:51.930 --> 17:00.450]  Now, I think we're going to have a lot of lessons learned and things to apply to the future if we end up back at the university again.
[17:00.930 --> 17:01.830]  Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
[17:03.150 --> 17:04.750]  Alex, you've been away for a little while.
[17:04.930 --> 17:05.490]  Welcome back.
[17:06.230 --> 17:06.630]  Thank you.
[17:06.910 --> 17:08.890]  I hope I didn't miss anything too critical.
[17:09.190 --> 17:11.010]  No, I think we finished talking about you.
[17:12.150 --> 17:16.570]  Any other impressions you'd like to share about the conference while we wait for another phone call?
[17:16.570 --> 17:20.630]  8-0-2-3-2-1-4-2-2-5 is our phone number.
[17:21.310 --> 17:34.790]  I think it's interesting that your impression of this was the best hope, Emmanuel, because I have to say, you were in the best spirits throughout the whole weekend that I've ever seen you be in, out of hope.
[17:35.110 --> 17:36.690]  I mean, you were relaxed.
[17:37.110 --> 17:43.090]  You were watching the conference itself, talking to people, going in.
[17:43.090 --> 17:47.510]  I mean, it was a different experience, I think, for you as well.
[17:48.290 --> 17:55.670]  And, you know, usually I will get, you know, several frantic phone calls or have to deal with crises with you over the weekend.
[17:55.890 --> 18:07.410]  I only got one frantic phone call from you, and it wasn't really even that frantic, and it was at the outset, and it was an issue that we don't even have to address because it was a moderate issue, and you would figure it out.
[18:07.410 --> 18:08.470]  I lost my phone.
[18:08.610 --> 18:09.490]  I lost my phone.
[18:09.570 --> 18:11.810]  Then I realized I was talking to you on it, and it was resolved.
[18:12.010 --> 18:13.870]  So it's not a big deal.
[18:14.090 --> 18:15.010]  It happens to everybody.
[18:15.230 --> 18:21.390]  The rest of the weekend, I was waiting for some major catastrophe or something crazy to happen, and it didn't.
[18:21.990 --> 18:23.450]  It kept knocking on wood.
[18:23.810 --> 18:26.050]  So I'm curious.
[18:26.070 --> 18:27.250]  I'm going to throw it back to you.
[18:27.250 --> 18:46.510]  Well, the reason things may have seemed calmer is because we're in a calmer environment, as opposed to the hecticness of a midtown hotel with all the traffic and just the attitude of the hotel itself, as opposed to a refined college campus where, you know,
[18:46.610 --> 18:48.290]  there's grass and there's trees.
[18:48.810 --> 18:49.730]  There are cats.
[18:50.010 --> 18:51.270]  Did you see all the cats on campus?
[18:51.950 --> 18:53.350]  Cats of St. John's.
[18:53.350 --> 18:54.790]  They were so cute.
[18:54.970 --> 18:57.190]  I was chasing one around for like five minutes.
[18:57.450 --> 18:57.770]  Uh-huh.
[18:58.370 --> 18:58.710]  Yeah.
[18:58.890 --> 18:59.030]  Yeah.
[18:59.170 --> 19:03.770]  They have their little dishes and everything because people take care of them, but they're kind of feral.
[19:04.290 --> 19:08.670]  But that's the kind of environment it is where you have buildings, you have resources.
[19:08.890 --> 19:17.950]  So, you know, I was able to retreat into an office and make decisions and reschedule things and also watch the conference because the networking worked perfectly.
[19:18.130 --> 19:22.670]  And I guess, Kyle, maybe we should say something about the network itself, not just the Wi-Fi.
[19:22.670 --> 19:24.550]  I know you were pretty involved in that.
[19:24.850 --> 19:25.350]  Oh, gosh.
[19:25.490 --> 19:27.310]  It was like totally different.
[19:28.850 --> 19:47.810]  All I heard from the network team was that it was much easier on them and that they were seemingly happy to have less as far as the build out and focus more on just keeping it going during the event and, you know, pursuing some of the special projects.
[19:47.810 --> 19:52.250]  We didn't have to drop fiber 20 floors down a stairwell.
[19:52.610 --> 19:53.330]  Nothing like that.
[19:53.350 --> 20:08.150]  We brought supplies just in case and had some kind of extra supplies, but, you know, a lot of minimal cable building.
[20:08.150 --> 20:24.690]  Usually, we'd build all these, like, Ethernet drops for the access points that we would have to rent or install or borrow and then install as some of the spaces that the hotel just did not have the kind of coverage that could handle a lot of people.
[20:24.810 --> 20:25.970]  Well, schools are meant for that.
[20:26.070 --> 20:26.270]  Yeah.
[20:26.650 --> 20:28.430]  So there was a lot less of that.
[20:28.530 --> 20:32.370]  I mean, there were a couple spaces where we may have wanted to augment and add some more.
[20:32.370 --> 20:38.410]  Honestly, though, Wi-Fi-wise, you know, anywhere on campus, I was getting a really good signal.
[20:38.550 --> 20:39.730]  I was able to watch the conference.
[20:39.890 --> 20:52.010]  And I have to say, any conference I've been to, and that includes all the CCC congresses and camps and the Dutch camps and other conferences around this country, I've never seen such good connectivity anywhere.
[20:52.630 --> 20:57.970]  So, you know, not to toot our own horn, but it's mostly St. John's that made that possible.
[20:57.970 --> 21:01.090]  But it really was something that made a huge difference.
[21:01.370 --> 21:07.290]  And, Alex, I think that addresses your point as to why people were calmer, because resources were there and they were working.
[21:07.470 --> 21:12.930]  A lot of the design efforts had been put in place and been things that we learned over the years.
[21:13.530 --> 21:15.150]  And they really listened to us.
[21:15.250 --> 21:16.850]  And I think that was that was important.
[21:17.030 --> 21:25.270]  Well, it's nice to have people who understand the technology listen to you, as opposed to somebody whose only job is to is to book rooms and, you know, make profits and things like that.
[21:25.850 --> 21:27.750]  But this this this made a huge difference.
[21:27.770 --> 21:29.870]  And I hope they get us.
[21:30.010 --> 21:32.450]  I hope they they appreciate our community.
[21:32.590 --> 21:33.590]  I know we appreciate them.
[21:33.830 --> 21:36.190]  And I think this could be something really amazing.
[21:36.470 --> 21:40.330]  You know, if we expand, there's outdoor spaces, there's more indoor spaces.
[21:41.330 --> 21:42.970]  This could be an incredible tradition.
[21:43.730 --> 21:44.470]  Who is?
[21:44.690 --> 21:45.330]  Go ahead, Voltaire.
[21:46.330 --> 21:59.250]  Yeah, one thing to that point, one thing I noticed, like the first first day, the one that the security guards and I guess all of them, I saw, they look kind of awkward, like they probably weren't used to nerdy folks.
[22:00.410 --> 22:02.430]  They're dressed in a black hacker outfit.
[22:02.630 --> 22:04.650]  And by the third day, I saw them.
[22:04.930 --> 22:06.090]  They all had smiles on their face.
[22:06.230 --> 22:13.650]  And like one of them I saw was like, had a with having a friend in conversation with one of our attendees and like laughing.
[22:13.810 --> 22:14.790]  So it's really cool to see.
[22:14.890 --> 22:16.710]  Like, it seemed like they got us by the end of it.
[22:16.970 --> 22:17.470]  Yeah, they did.
[22:17.550 --> 22:17.770]  They did.
[22:17.850 --> 22:23.550]  In fact, they told us we're one of the best guests they've ever had, which I don't know if they just say that to everybody.
[22:24.390 --> 22:25.530]  It felt good hearing that from them.
[22:25.830 --> 22:27.050]  They're saying it's me too.
[22:27.390 --> 22:31.750]  And one of them, one of the older gentlemen, I don't remember his name.
[22:32.090 --> 22:34.090]  Anytime he walked by, he's like, hey, do you need anything?
[22:34.170 --> 22:34.590]  Are you good?
[22:34.690 --> 22:35.590]  I'm like, yeah, no, I'm great.
[22:36.170 --> 22:41.590]  Which was, you know, really appreciated given, you know, most of the time it's just like questions.
[22:42.370 --> 22:43.570]  Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
[22:45.190 --> 22:46.050]  Well, you know what?
[22:46.050 --> 22:51.910]  It's pretty amazing that we made it through this, that now the rest of the summer beckons.
[22:52.090 --> 22:53.310]  And, oh, we have a phone call.
[22:53.610 --> 22:55.890]  802-321-4225 is our phone number.
[22:55.930 --> 22:56.990]  And we have another phone call.
[22:57.090 --> 22:57.430]  Good evening.
[22:57.610 --> 22:58.950]  You're on Off the Hook Overtime.
[23:01.670 --> 23:02.270]  Speak up.
[23:02.350 --> 23:02.650]  Go ahead.
[23:06.360 --> 23:07.400]  There's nobody there, Kyle.
[23:08.600 --> 23:09.760]  You gave me a blank caller.
[23:10.700 --> 23:12.200]  Okay, I have turned it off.
[23:12.420 --> 23:12.660]  All right.
[23:13.020 --> 23:13.460]  Try again.
[23:13.460 --> 23:14.380]  Get a better caller.
[23:15.140 --> 23:16.580]  802-321-4225.
[23:17.660 --> 23:19.500]  802-321-HACK is our phone number.
[23:20.360 --> 23:25.640]  And oftentimes people call us from all over the world to share various perspectives and things like that.
[23:25.960 --> 23:27.480]  Yes, Alex, you've raised your hand.
[23:27.580 --> 23:29.040]  I know you're scratching yourself, but that counts.
[23:29.160 --> 23:29.400]  Go ahead.
[23:30.980 --> 23:33.320]  Well, I, yeah, I guess.
[23:33.440 --> 23:33.700]  All right.
[23:33.840 --> 23:36.860]  So, sure, if you want to put me on the spot to talk.
[23:36.960 --> 23:37.460]  I do, I do.
[23:38.240 --> 23:42.880]  I would say, you know, I think this was also one of my favorite hopes, too.
[23:42.880 --> 23:44.060]  And I've been to so many of them.
[23:44.080 --> 23:48.680]  I was at the first one back in 1994 as a teenager.
[23:50.060 --> 23:53.580]  And I think you're right, too, about the setting.
[23:54.180 --> 23:58.820]  And maybe it's just that we're all getting older and we want a little bit more green or something.
[23:59.020 --> 24:13.800]  But, I mean, even things like, I mean, every single year at Hotel Pennsylvania, you know, God rest its soul over there, it was such a pain in the ass to do something simple like get a phone line in.
[24:14.000 --> 24:22.000]  Which then leads me to, as I was thinking about this, I realized, why were we getting a phone line in over at Hotel Pennsylvania?
[24:22.320 --> 24:28.140]  And that was because we needed the actual phone line installed for the social engineering panel.
[24:29.260 --> 24:31.120]  And we didn't have that this year.
[24:32.320 --> 24:32.900]  That's right.
[24:33.140 --> 24:33.560]  We didn't.
[24:33.620 --> 24:34.020]  Not this year.
[24:34.640 --> 24:37.120]  You know, usually I'm on that and it's so much fun.
[24:37.260 --> 24:42.540]  And, you know, but, you know, well, what's the thinking behind that?
[24:43.180 --> 24:44.740]  I thought you were doing it.
[24:45.300 --> 24:46.780]  Oh, is that right?
[24:46.940 --> 24:47.460]  But you know what?
[24:47.520 --> 24:49.020]  You can make up for it next time.
[24:49.300 --> 24:51.440]  Just, you know, make plans a little earlier.
[24:51.660 --> 24:54.500]  And we'll look forward to social engineering with Alex.
[24:54.500 --> 24:56.980]  Alex, you've got to pass the baton on at some point.
[24:57.320 --> 24:58.640]  You know, I can't do all of this.
[24:59.300 --> 25:00.560]  Yeah, I guess.
[25:00.740 --> 25:04.960]  But, you know, in hindsight, that's a regret from this past weekend.
[25:04.960 --> 25:07.980]  I think we could have done a social engineering panel.
[25:08.040 --> 25:13.860]  And I think we should promise the attendees that at the next one, we will have that.
[25:14.040 --> 25:15.220]  This is such a popular panel.
[25:15.280 --> 25:16.040]  You can promise.
[25:16.640 --> 25:17.280]  All right, I promise.
[25:17.280 --> 25:21.320]  All I'm going to promise is that we're going to do the best we can to do this again and make it even better.
[25:21.720 --> 25:22.620]  We have a phone call.
[25:22.860 --> 25:23.220]  Good evening.
[25:26.040 --> 25:26.760]  Check 2?
[25:27.080 --> 25:27.740]  Yes, you're on.
[25:27.820 --> 25:28.060]  Go ahead.
[25:29.120 --> 25:31.060]  Hello, this is Kirby calling from Etobicoke.
[25:31.220 --> 25:33.120]  Kirby, it was such a pleasure to meet you.
[25:34.120 --> 25:34.800]  Hey, guys.
[25:35.280 --> 25:36.120]  Kirby was at Hope.
[25:36.620 --> 25:37.020]  Hi.
[25:37.260 --> 25:38.680]  And you ran a poetry slam.
[25:38.800 --> 25:40.080]  You ran a hacker poetry slam.
[25:41.300 --> 25:41.940]  I did.
[25:42.000 --> 25:46.780]  It wasn't a slam, because technically a slam is a poetry competition.
[25:46.940 --> 25:47.200]  Oh.
[25:47.360 --> 25:49.080]  It was more of an open mic.
[25:49.360 --> 25:50.400]  See, I learned something.
[25:50.540 --> 25:50.820]  Okay.
[25:51.140 --> 25:52.120]  How did it go?
[25:53.500 --> 25:54.360]  It went great.
[25:54.580 --> 25:58.640]  It was, you know, got to get started somewhere.
[25:59.260 --> 26:14.880]  And part of the reason I did the event was because over the course of the pandemic, kind of, like many people, you know, I kind of was dealing with a little bit of depression and a little bit of social anxiety more than normal and so on and so on.
[26:14.880 --> 26:17.440]  And so it was a bit of a challenge to go out and do something.
[26:17.780 --> 26:24.980]  Well, to come all the way from Ontario and, you know, and take part in this, that in itself is quite an accomplishment.
[26:26.840 --> 26:41.300]  Well, the cool thing was that we had a reader that just was another attendee, and he read this poem that was just like, it blew me away.
[26:41.640 --> 26:49.840]  It was all about somebody who flies drones for a living for military purposes.
[26:51.160 --> 27:01.140]  And it's just like, out of the blue, the one reader who came up as well and read a poem really shocked me to the core.
[27:01.140 --> 27:01.740]  Wow.
[27:03.080 --> 27:04.100]  That's pretty awesome.
[27:04.480 --> 27:05.320]  That's pretty awesome.
[27:06.040 --> 27:20.120]  And, you know, all the different performers that were on late at night doing Hacker Karaoke, which I know Greg was involved in, and all the musicians, it really was something.
[27:20.340 --> 27:23.760]  Just the creativity in this community never ceases to amaze me.
[27:23.760 --> 27:49.240]  Yeah, we really wanted to honor the amount of music and creative arts that exists within the community and just have it presented throughout at different points so that it was just really this space where a hub of activity around every corner, you really didn't know what might be next.
[27:49.980 --> 27:54.020]  And providing the space for impromptu tracks and stuff just adds to that too.
[27:54.340 --> 28:09.000]  So it really, it's, again, a new space, but we really enjoyed everybody who had the guts to get up there and perform in front of all kinds of people like that.
[28:09.160 --> 28:09.740]  Yeah, yeah.
[28:09.920 --> 28:14.500]  And we had performances in the coffee house as well, as well as some talks.
[28:15.060 --> 28:16.120]  And Hackers Got Talent.
[28:16.480 --> 28:17.200]  Hackers Got Talent.
[28:17.280 --> 28:18.380]  I forgot about Jason Scott.
[28:18.380 --> 28:19.240]  And Hackers Got Talent.
[28:19.300 --> 28:20.180]  How could I forget that?
[28:20.660 --> 28:20.940]  Wow.
[28:21.300 --> 28:24.500]  I didn't get to see it, but I know I will at some point.
[28:25.600 --> 28:27.460]  Yeah, there was a laptop destroyed.
[28:28.220 --> 28:29.280]  Tell us about that.
[28:29.680 --> 28:30.060]  Sure.
[28:30.820 --> 28:33.320]  This is actually my second time judging Hackers Got Talent.
[28:33.500 --> 28:36.800]  Actually, I think the first time I had to judge it, Rob T.
[28:36.900 --> 28:39.700]  Firefly came out to me and said, Emmanuel can't do it.
[28:39.860 --> 28:40.800]  So I had...
[28:40.800 --> 28:41.220]  So thanks.
[28:41.420 --> 28:42.000]  Thanks for that.
[28:42.180 --> 28:42.560]  Of course.
[28:42.880 --> 28:43.520]  But no, it's lovely.
[28:43.620 --> 28:44.240]  It was so much fun.
[28:44.240 --> 28:45.880]  Oh, we had a couple of singers.
[28:45.880 --> 28:54.800]  We had someone with a hat that had a Raspberry Pi attached to it, and it would do something with the tweet.
[28:54.880 --> 28:55.800]  I can't remember now.
[28:57.860 --> 29:05.140]  But it was funny because everyone had some sort of problem with their laptop, and their laptops just weren't working.
[29:05.400 --> 29:10.320]  So one person just like, here, use my laptop because it kept working.
[29:10.640 --> 29:18.640]  And Johannes actually turns to the guy with the one working laptop and buys it off him.
[29:18.640 --> 29:27.340]  And while Jason, Greg, and I are discussing the different acts, Johannes just starts destroying the laptop on stage.
[29:28.080 --> 29:29.480]  There was glass flying.
[29:29.660 --> 29:31.540]  I was just like, what is going on here?
[29:32.420 --> 29:41.980]  Honestly, it's one of my favorite, I guess, panels to do because every time something else happens, it just makes it a little bit crazier.
[29:43.420 --> 29:45.100]  But that was a lot of fun.
[29:45.180 --> 29:49.340]  Actually, I think we also had to mute the stream for a copyright thing, related thing, too.
[29:49.520 --> 29:58.960]  Well, that was actually running around the same time that in the other track, Google was going nuts, shutting us down.
[29:58.960 --> 30:01.440]  So we had to be extra careful with Hackers Got Talent.
[30:01.600 --> 30:06.680]  And if anybody was whistling a tune that Google didn't like, we had to cut the feed.
[30:07.180 --> 30:10.060]  But on that, I believe we have the whole thing recorded.
[30:10.060 --> 30:12.440]  So that will become available to the public.
[30:12.580 --> 30:13.180]  Yes, Voltaire, go ahead.
[30:16.060 --> 30:35.880]  To tie this into another talk, in fact, Google is lobbying the European Union, as we speak, to create mandates to so that any website that hosts video or audio has to have filters like that, which will, A, be like lots of false positives and censorship like we have here.
[30:35.880 --> 30:40.000]  And B, it will be prohibitively expensive unless you're like a super big company like Google.
[30:40.180 --> 30:50.660]  So it will be reinforcing their monopoly, which ties us into another great talk, Corey Doctor's keynote about anti-monopoly legislation and things to do to combat that.
[30:51.080 --> 31:03.400]  So I definitely recommend listening and watching that once it's posted, as well as if you're in the EU and want to combat that, get involved with organizations like Ed3, EDR, and EFF here.
[31:03.400 --> 31:04.520]  Yes, absolutely.
[31:04.660 --> 31:05.660]  That is so important.
[31:05.660 --> 31:12.780]  And it just seems like Google is becoming more and more evil every passing year or maybe even every passing day.
[31:13.580 --> 31:18.260]  Corey did give a more than two-hour talk at the end of the conference, which was really awesome.
[31:18.360 --> 31:22.240]  It was remote because he couldn't make it this particular year.
[31:22.740 --> 31:30.180]  And we found that the transition between remote talks and physical talks was not as awkward as we thought it would be.
[31:30.680 --> 31:35.380]  Sometimes we had a physical talk scheduled, and then the person caught COVID.
[31:35.540 --> 31:37.620]  They weren't able to come, but they still wanted to give their talk.
[31:37.760 --> 31:38.960]  So they were able to do that.
[31:39.100 --> 31:47.780]  It was a fairly seamless transition where we could have people who were supposed to be there physically, whether they were speakers or attendees, take part in the conference virtually.
[31:48.280 --> 31:52.360]  And I heard nothing but good things from the virtual attendees as well as the virtual speakers.
[31:52.520 --> 31:53.200]  So there's that.
[31:53.740 --> 31:57.720]  I prefer physical conferences as well where people are there.
[31:58.500 --> 32:02.060]  But if this gets more people involved, then it's also a good thing.
[32:03.760 --> 32:04.240]  Yeah.
[32:04.320 --> 32:06.280]  And that talk was spectacular.
[32:06.720 --> 32:10.820]  Just talking about the switching costs and reducing switching costs.
[32:11.100 --> 32:11.700]  Corey's talk?
[32:11.980 --> 32:12.140]  Yeah.
[32:12.400 --> 32:12.540]  Yeah.
[32:12.820 --> 32:12.940]  Yeah.
[32:13.140 --> 32:19.240]  Just summing it up, kind of bringing people up to speed and running them through things.
[32:19.360 --> 32:39.400]  A lot of people haven't heard that stuff, haven't gotten into some of the critiques and seen it in a way that's as comprehensive that you can kind of understand some of the things that are at play and why there are some of these organizations that are working really,
[32:39.480 --> 32:54.160]  really hard to head off some of this monopolistic and really predatory activity as far as how tech companies are treating people and their information.
[32:54.540 --> 32:56.320]  It's just terrible what we're seeing.
[32:56.540 --> 33:14.620]  We're seeing things become normal that are not normal, where you can't even play a snippet because it's part of your talk or because it's part of a point you're trying to prove because Google's algorithms decree that you're up to something.
[33:14.780 --> 33:21.220]  They said that we were engaged in scams and, um, uh, and spam and things like that.
[33:21.840 --> 33:32.040]  Yeah, that's, that's, that was the actual, uh, if you look at the tweet that 2600 sent out earlier today, there's, um, there's a screen grab of what Google was accusing us of.
[33:32.540 --> 33:39.400]  And, uh, yeah, it wasn't, uh, at least in the title, it didn't say that we were using someone's audio.
[33:39.540 --> 33:44.640]  It said it was part of a scam or we were sending spam or, or some kind of unauthorized thing.
[33:44.960 --> 33:46.920]  This made it sound really sleazy.
[33:47.140 --> 33:48.740]  Nobody could possibly defend that.
[33:48.940 --> 33:52.820]  And I just, you know, if anything is sleazy, it's, it's that kind of behavior.
[33:53.160 --> 33:56.920]  No wonder they had no, uh, video or evidence to show.
[33:56.920 --> 33:58.420]  Cause that just infuriated me.
[33:58.460 --> 34:03.840]  At first I thought, you know, okay, what they're doing is they're forcing me to use Chrome because I was using Firefox.
[34:04.240 --> 34:04.860]  So, okay.
[34:05.040 --> 34:09.520]  I, I logged in on Chrome where, you know, I can't block any ads or anything like that.
[34:09.640 --> 34:13.360]  I have to, I have to, you know, subject myself to all of it and it still didn't work.
[34:13.500 --> 34:15.880]  So, you know, I, I don't know what they're trying to pull.
[34:16.000 --> 34:18.220]  They say, look at your content, see what's wrong with it.
[34:18.500 --> 34:20.420]  And then they say, Oh, you looked at it.
[34:20.560 --> 34:23.780]  And, uh, what do you want to do now when they never even showed it to you?
[34:24.320 --> 34:28.100]  So, um, yeah, this is, uh, I don't know why we used YouTube.
[34:28.240 --> 34:30.580]  I think it was just out of convenience, but this is a good reason.
[34:30.740 --> 34:37.560]  Well, we used YouTube as we're on YouTube right now, talking about how we're using YouTube right now.
[34:38.100 --> 34:38.440]  Yeah.
[34:38.700 --> 34:39.260]  Using it.
[34:39.620 --> 34:40.600]  Um, Emmanuel, may I?
[34:41.140 --> 34:42.740]  Whoa, I forgot you were still there.
[34:42.880 --> 34:43.580]  I'm so sorry.
[34:45.780 --> 34:47.300]  I totally forgot you were there.
[34:47.380 --> 34:47.920]  I'm so sorry.
[34:48.300 --> 34:48.620]  Go ahead.
[34:49.120 --> 34:49.880]  That's okay.
[34:50.060 --> 35:06.920]  I just wanted to comment that, uh, that directly impacted the Hacks Poetic event because I had all kinds of selections of readings that, um, I thought relate to hacking and hackers and that if people didn't have something of their own or they just wanted to,
[35:06.920 --> 35:13.060]  you know, try to speak in front of a crowd or whatever, that they could choose one of the pre-selected type things.
[35:13.240 --> 35:15.740]  And that all had to get cut at the last minute because of that.
[35:15.860 --> 35:16.920]  We didn't want to risk it.
[35:17.300 --> 35:19.020]  You mean spoken word?
[35:19.160 --> 35:20.600]  You were worried about spoken word?
[35:21.700 --> 35:27.160]  Well, reading out, um, something from a book or from a poet, like somebody, yeah.
[35:27.400 --> 35:28.460]  Can they do that now?
[35:28.580 --> 35:32.940]  If you, if you read a book, they can, they can flag you for in your own voice, for reading a book.
[35:32.960 --> 35:36.840]  I mean, I, I guess I shouldn't be surprised if that is possible, but my God.
[35:37.160 --> 35:46.980]  Well, say, like, just say a script for the sake of argument, or in this case, like one of the readings I had was the first paragraph and the last paragraph of 1984.
[35:47.980 --> 35:48.380]  Wow.
[35:48.620 --> 35:51.700]  I feel like I should be able to give you permission for that, but damn.
[35:51.880 --> 35:57.940]  Well, in Canada, somebody told me that it's, um, actually, uh, it's not licensed anymore.
[35:58.140 --> 35:58.680]  What's the word?
[35:58.800 --> 35:59.300]  Sorry, I just...
[35:59.300 --> 35:59.820]  Copyrighted.
[35:59.820 --> 36:00.280]  Yeah.
[36:00.280 --> 36:00.960]  It's, uh...
[36:00.960 --> 36:01.780]  Yeah, it's not copyrighted.
[36:01.840 --> 36:01.960]  Yeah.
[36:02.500 --> 36:02.660]  Yeah.
[36:02.860 --> 36:05.260]  Well, you know, do you want, do you want to read it now over YouTube?
[36:05.440 --> 36:06.700]  Because you can, you can do it if you want.
[36:08.320 --> 36:09.860]  Uh, no, no, not right now.
[36:09.940 --> 36:10.180]  All right.
[36:10.420 --> 36:12.700]  I don't want to, um...
[36:12.700 --> 36:14.220]  I don't know what I'm telling you.
[36:14.360 --> 36:27.920]  I've been through this kind of thing before with various people involving, um, you know, registrars, GoDaddy, and whenever somebody challenges you to test if you can break the system, it's usually, like, unless you're really willing to accept the response.
[36:29.420 --> 36:30.420]  Well, we are.
[36:30.660 --> 36:31.760]  It's not going to come after you.
[36:31.940 --> 36:33.720]  At least, I don't think they're that evil.
[36:35.240 --> 36:44.400]  But I've seen accounts locked up with no explanation for ages just because of some, uh, video clip that people don't even understand how it violates, um, a copyright.
[36:44.640 --> 36:48.300]  Some sound or song or, like you say, whistling or...
[36:48.300 --> 36:53.420]  Yeah, I feel like going out and finding my copy of 1984 right now and reading as much of it as I damn well feel like.
[36:54.360 --> 36:55.140]  Okay, hold on.
[36:55.200 --> 36:57.300]  Let me find my, um, let me get a glass of water.
[36:57.300 --> 36:58.700]  Yeah, Gogol, you see what you're doing?
[36:58.900 --> 37:00.580]  You're turning us into revolutionaries.
[37:00.820 --> 37:01.400]  Go ahead, Alex.
[37:02.160 --> 37:11.400]  Yeah, I, I wanted to say, and hopefully Kirby's still listening, that, uh, I got his, his note, and I want to thank him for, uh, coming to my panel on, uh, on Friday.
[37:12.040 --> 37:24.940]  I'm sorry I didn't make it over to the, uh, Hacks Poetic, uh, panel, and that was in large part due to you, Emmanuel, and your excellent dinner recommendations that, that kept me gallivanting around, uh, Queens for, for far too long.
[37:25.320 --> 37:36.800]  But to, to go back to the substantive point that Kirby had made, we functionally, in terms of copyright, you know, all of this should be, should be considered fair use.
[37:36.940 --> 37:53.640]  The problem is that the algorithms don't seem to be able to make that nuanced distinction between somebody infringing on copyright and somebody using a snippet of a piece of copyrighted material for legitimate purposes, like, you know, criticism, critique,
[37:54.240 --> 37:57.560]  comedy, uh, reviews, things like that.
[37:57.720 --> 38:02.020]  And so, you know, that, that, that's just a problem where algorithms, I think, fall short.
[38:02.260 --> 38:10.140]  But functionally, what would be the difference between a spoken word snippet of a copyrighted work and a snippet of a song?
[38:10.340 --> 38:17.340]  Well, because you're reading it in your own damn voice, as opposed to playing, you know, Beatles or something like that.
[38:17.520 --> 38:17.600]  Yeah.
[38:17.740 --> 38:26.820]  It's like content ID for what I, from what I understand for books, like, or not necessarily, um, songs.
[38:26.940 --> 38:29.820]  I mean, you just down, you mess with the pitch a little bit.
[38:29.960 --> 38:35.980]  It shouldn't get picked up by the copy of, but by copy ID, but it's hard to say flat out video.
[38:36.540 --> 38:38.200]  Probably a little depends on the holder.
[38:38.340 --> 38:40.100]  You should be able to do 15 sec.
[38:40.180 --> 38:42.240]  I think it's between 10 and 15 seconds.
[38:42.400 --> 38:49.040]  And as long as it's part of a greater work, you should be able to fight it or fight that it's fair use.
[38:49.480 --> 38:51.320]  So the fact that that was...
[38:51.320 --> 38:52.040]  Can you imagine?
[38:52.540 --> 39:07.660]  No, I mean, I'm just, I'm just thinking all nightmare scenarios now, but can you imagine a parent reading a story to a child and Alexa turns him in for reading a story without permission that he didn't pay for the rights to?
[39:07.800 --> 39:09.240]  That's the world we're heading towards.
[39:09.900 --> 39:10.420]  Yeah.
[39:10.540 --> 39:11.360]  It really seems like it.
[39:11.940 --> 39:23.520]  Can you imagine that I couldn't read 1984 on YouTube feed because, you know, there was a risk that a potential violation could screw up the entire conference feed for the entire world?
[39:23.660 --> 39:25.400]  Well, that was the fear we were living in.
[39:26.000 --> 39:33.320]  I mean, we were living under fear from Saturday night all through Sunday that somebody would do something involving copyright.
[39:33.320 --> 39:42.140]  And for some reason, we were using YouTube as our exclusive distributor of the video, which I think probably was a big mistake on our part.
[39:42.980 --> 39:46.860]  And, you know, one mistake and the whole feed would have been gone.
[39:47.180 --> 39:47.940]  One mistake.
[39:48.180 --> 39:48.800]  No, but you know what?
[39:48.860 --> 39:49.880]  I don't regret doing it.
[39:50.020 --> 39:53.840]  It was a mistake, but we're learning so much about this as a result of that mistake.
[39:54.000 --> 39:57.660]  So, you know, take your mistakes and learn from them and spread the knowledge.
[39:57.960 --> 40:02.220]  Now, Kirby, do you have some stuff that'll get us into big trouble, I hope?
[40:03.560 --> 40:03.920]  Yes.
[40:04.060 --> 40:09.100]  Before I engage in this revolutionary act, I just want to say... no, I just had a couple of quick notes.
[40:09.260 --> 40:10.460]  The t-shirts are very cool.
[40:11.540 --> 40:13.940]  Liz and... Liz, is that your name?
[40:14.460 --> 40:14.820]  Yes.
[40:15.220 --> 40:15.880]  Or Katsunagi.
[40:16.260 --> 40:16.820]  He's both.
[40:18.340 --> 40:18.700]  Yeah.
[40:18.700 --> 40:29.560]  It was really a pleasure to meet you and you're such a great source of information and everybody knew what was going on and there was no panic in the main lobby, that's for sure.
[40:30.120 --> 40:30.660]  That's true.
[40:30.800 --> 40:31.100]  Thank you.
[40:32.200 --> 40:33.240]  Yeah, you're very welcome.
[40:33.520 --> 40:34.440]  And what else?
[40:34.520 --> 40:35.600]  The security was good.
[40:35.860 --> 40:36.240]  Okay, yeah.
[40:36.400 --> 40:36.680]  Okay.
[40:36.980 --> 40:37.400]  That's all.
[40:37.460 --> 40:38.240]  I just want to say thanks.
[40:38.560 --> 40:40.800]  And you know, everyone was wearing their masks.
[40:40.860 --> 40:41.820]  Was that any issues?
[40:42.100 --> 40:45.040]  You know, I was thinking there might be some pushback on that, but people got it.
[40:45.120 --> 40:46.020]  It was no big deal.
[40:46.020 --> 40:52.120]  All the things we were worried about that people might not take kindly to, we get it.
[40:52.200 --> 40:52.820]  We all get it.
[40:52.900 --> 40:57.660]  We know we're trying to work together and make something happen and it really did as a result of that.
[40:57.800 --> 41:00.440]  So thank you to all the attendees who really made this happen.
[41:03.440 --> 41:03.840]  Okay.
[41:03.840 --> 41:04.240]  1984.
[41:04.520 --> 41:05.140]  George Orwell.
[41:05.280 --> 41:05.640]  Here we go.
[41:06.200 --> 41:07.460]  Read by Kirby.
[41:07.800 --> 41:09.100]  Now you're not going to read the whole book, right?
[41:09.160 --> 41:11.760]  Just basically the first page and the last page or something like that?
[41:11.980 --> 41:13.480]  The first paragraph and the last paragraph.
[41:13.700 --> 41:13.900]  Okay.
[41:14.080 --> 41:15.160]  And then spoiler alert, people.
[41:15.500 --> 41:15.680]  That was the idea.
[41:15.920 --> 41:16.660]  Spoiler alert.
[41:16.800 --> 41:18.940]  It's not necessarily a storybook ending.
[41:19.160 --> 41:20.580]  So just be prepared for that.
[41:20.880 --> 41:21.140]  All right.
[41:21.140 --> 41:25.320]  It was a bright, cold day in April, and the clocks were striking 13.
[41:25.800 --> 41:40.240]  Winston Smith, his chin nuzzled into his breast in an effort to escape the vile wind, slipped quickly through the glass doors of Victory Mansions, though not quickly enough to prevent a swirl of gritty dust from entering along with him.
[41:40.580 --> 41:44.180]  The hallways smelt of boiled cabbage and old rag mats.
[41:44.580 --> 41:54.420]  At one end of it, a colored poster, too large for indoor display, had been tacked to the wall.
[41:54.680 --> 41:58.380]  It depicted an enormous face, more than a meter wide.
[41:58.640 --> 42:05.120]  The face of a man of about 45, with heavy black mustache and ruggedly handsome features.
[42:05.800 --> 42:07.600]  Winston made it for the stairs.
[42:08.060 --> 42:10.120]  It was no use trying the lift.
[42:10.120 --> 42:13.080]  Even at the best of time, it was seldom working.
[42:13.300 --> 42:17.160]  And at present, the electric current was cut off during daylight hours.
[42:17.580 --> 42:21.200]  It was part of the economy drive in preparation for hate week.
[42:21.840 --> 42:24.060]  The flat was seven flights up.
[42:24.240 --> 42:36.120]  And Winston, who was 39 and had a varicose ulcer about his right ankle, went slowly, resting several times on the way.
[42:36.480 --> 42:42.480]  On each landing, opposite the lift shaft, the poster with the enormous face gazed from the wall.
[42:42.700 --> 42:48.720]  It was one of those pictures which were so contrived that the eyes followed you about when you moved.
[42:49.140 --> 42:52.700]  Big brother is watching you, the caption beneath it ran.
[42:53.260 --> 42:55.480]  He gazed up at the enormous face.
[42:56.140 --> 43:02.160]  Forty years it had taken him to learn what kind of smile was hidden beneath the dark mustache.
[43:02.760 --> 43:05.320]  Oh, cruel, needless misunderstanding.
[43:05.860 --> 43:09.800]  Oh, stubborn, self-willed exile from the loving breast.
[43:10.180 --> 43:13.640]  Two gin-scented tears trickled down the side of his nose.
[43:13.940 --> 43:15.660]  But it was all right.
[43:16.000 --> 43:17.420]  Everything was all right.
[43:17.760 --> 43:19.240]  The struggle was finished.
[43:19.540 --> 43:21.800]  He had won the victory over himself.
[43:22.480 --> 43:23.860]  He loved big brother.
[43:24.900 --> 43:25.560]  The end.
[43:26.520 --> 43:29.140]  That was, you know, that was a seamless transition.
[43:29.140 --> 43:31.660]  I couldn't tell where the ending began and the beginning ended.
[43:32.680 --> 43:36.240]  And Kirby, I got to say, you have a really good reading voice.
[43:36.260 --> 43:39.740]  You could read this to kids and scare the crap out of them.
[43:42.160 --> 43:43.120]  Well, thank you very much.
[43:43.280 --> 43:47.300]  It was actually, it was really nice to get the ball rolling at the conference.
[43:47.300 --> 43:51.100]  And I think we're going to keep it going and got some events.
[43:51.100 --> 43:56.620]  I'm going to come, I'm going to try to come to the Tesla Museum for the birthday party.
[43:57.420 --> 44:00.260]  Oh, yeah, that's happening on Long Island, I think, in September.
[44:00.640 --> 44:10.900]  It was supposed to happen in July, but somebody was driving a giant Tesla coil through the desert and their car broke down and they weren't able to be.
[44:11.100 --> 44:12.880]  It sounds like something that would happen to us.
[44:13.220 --> 44:16.560]  And basically, the whole thing had to be postponed until September as a result.
[44:16.720 --> 44:18.880]  But yeah, maybe that'll make it even better.
[44:21.100 --> 44:27.300]  Yeah, I'm just, you know, I just think that it's just a name.
[44:27.460 --> 44:35.020]  Like, I'm already working on an application for my MyCraft digital assistant that we could put haikus on and people can submit them.
[44:35.020 --> 44:42.340]  And all you have to do is ask the digital assistant and it'll fire one out for you for fun and inspiration, you know, that kind of stuff.
[44:42.940 --> 44:49.680]  Because it's really interesting the way that it makes you look at everything differently than the way that we normally communicate.
[44:50.280 --> 44:50.860]  So, Alex...
[44:50.860 --> 44:52.040]  I hope more people get into it.
[44:52.140 --> 45:03.220]  Alex, as we prepare for YouTube to come knocking, is there any kind of comfort that you can give us, having just done this very risky thing over the internet?
[45:05.420 --> 45:06.760]  Not really, no.
[45:07.000 --> 45:10.740]  I think that's, you know, we're just going to have to deal with it.
[45:11.540 --> 45:18.760]  I don't think that they will come and knock because of the, you know, the reading of the beginning and ending paragraph from 1984.
[45:18.760 --> 45:31.700]  I think it's just a matter of algorithmic convenience that they pick up on music as opposed to the spoken word, because it's very difficult to match spoken word with the entire, you know, Library of Congress or something, right?
[45:31.700 --> 45:38.220]  But the algorithms can pick up, you know, these musical melodies much more easily.
[45:39.080 --> 45:42.820]  But I do also want to, you know, underscore what you said, Kirby.
[45:42.940 --> 45:44.040]  That was really awesome.
[45:44.080 --> 45:51.620]  And it was such a strange exercise to see, you know, the seamless transition from the beginning and the end.
[45:51.860 --> 46:02.760]  And once you reminded me of those two gin-soaked tears running down his face, I realized that you had transitioned to the, to that ending paragraph, but didn't realize it before.
[46:03.020 --> 46:04.720]  It was, it was pretty powerful reading.
[46:04.940 --> 46:05.540]  It was.
[46:05.700 --> 46:06.400]  It definitely was.
[46:08.280 --> 46:09.060]  Well, thank you.
[46:09.120 --> 46:15.100]  And I hope that, uh, I can continue to kind of develop this into something that's a lot of fun.
[46:15.200 --> 46:17.780]  And at the next hope it was two years, every two years.
[46:17.860 --> 46:18.180]  Is that right?
[46:18.400 --> 46:19.220]  That's the idea.
[46:19.420 --> 46:19.940]  That's the idea.
[46:20.040 --> 46:22.960]  But sometimes pandemics get in the way and, uh, you never know what's going to happen.
[46:24.060 --> 46:24.460]  Yeah.
[46:24.460 --> 46:27.660]  And that's good enough time to like really get my act together by then.
[46:28.420 --> 46:33.800]  Kind of, uh, develop, develop some people involved and community and stuff.
[46:33.980 --> 46:43.520]  And there was a really good reception and a lot of people, uh, spoke to a lot of people and they really, they liked the idea and hadn't really thought of it before for many of them.
[46:44.240 --> 46:45.380]  Well, that's what it's all about.
[46:45.520 --> 46:46.380]  Alex, you had something else.
[46:46.800 --> 46:47.200]  Yeah.
[46:47.680 --> 46:57.520]  Kirby, I don't think I ever mentioned this, you know, but, uh, when I was a student in England as an undergraduate, you know, this was in the, in the days of answering machines, right?
[46:57.580 --> 47:01.060]  We had one phone for the whole floor, if you can imagine that, right?
[47:01.200 --> 47:13.600]  And so it was an answering machine and we had changed the answering machines outgoing message to note at the end of the outgoing message that all messages that were not left in haiku form would be completely disregarded.
[47:14.120 --> 47:16.840]  And, and we had kept true to that.
[47:16.920 --> 47:24.960]  You know, we made a pact with everybody on the floor that if somebody left a message that wasn't in the form of five syllables, seven syllables, and then five syllables, it would be disregarded.
[47:25.480 --> 47:28.120]  And, um, and then people started leaving haikus.
[47:28.340 --> 47:29.760]  You know, I wish we still had this on tape.
[47:29.960 --> 47:36.520]  Did you expect people to make up a haiku hearing that message on the spot, or did you expect them to call back after having prepared one?
[47:36.520 --> 47:40.180]  Well, it just depends on how, uh, quick you are on your feet.
[47:40.780 --> 47:42.060]  Uh, yeah, I wouldn't be able to do it.
[47:42.100 --> 47:47.240]  Probably a short tutorial, uh, you know, a 10 second review.
[47:49.900 --> 47:52.960]  We did, I did some haikus on, uh, during the performance.
[47:53.300 --> 47:59.120]  And, uh, what I did was I like using them as stanzas in a poem, so to speak.
[47:59.240 --> 48:05.460]  So that way you can piece together a bunch of small ideas and they kind of make more sense.
[48:05.760 --> 48:10.660]  Because otherwise, haikus are just, you know, someone listens to it and kind of looks at you and looks away.
[48:11.160 --> 48:12.500]  That, that does happen, yes.
[48:13.140 --> 48:15.160]  Well, uh, Kirby, great hearing from you.
[48:15.300 --> 48:17.880]  We look forward to our, our, our next, uh, adventure.
[48:18.540 --> 48:22.600]  And, um, of course, we'll hear you on, uh, on, on the radio down the road.
[48:23.800 --> 48:24.700]  All right, take care.
[48:24.820 --> 48:25.260]  Thanks, everybody.
[48:25.740 --> 48:27.440]  And we're going to try and take one more phone call.
[48:27.560 --> 48:29.180]  Go ahead, um, uh, Voltaire.
[48:29.280 --> 48:30.160]  Let's come out the phone number first.
[48:30.320 --> 48:31.940]  802-321-4225.
[48:32.860 --> 48:35.680]  802-321-HACK is our phone number.
[48:36.100 --> 48:39.020]  Talking about the, um, uh, conference, A New Hope.
[48:39.240 --> 48:40.920]  Did we say the title of the conference yet?
[48:41.260 --> 48:41.660]  A New Hope.
[48:41.740 --> 48:42.540]  That was our, our name.
[48:43.180 --> 48:47.660]  Um, and, um, it, it took place this past weekend and we're still recovering from it.
[48:48.400 --> 48:51.200]  And, um, yeah, that's, that's what we're doing.
[48:51.280 --> 48:51.980]  Go ahead, Voltaire.
[48:55.260 --> 48:57.160]  What, you changed your mind after all that?
[48:58.120 --> 48:59.200]  You got to say something.
[48:59.200 --> 49:04.560]  I was waving goodbye to the, um, caller and then I forgot that they can't see us.
[49:04.800 --> 49:06.420]  Oh, waving goodbye to the caller.
[49:06.600 --> 49:06.800]  Wow.
[49:06.980 --> 49:07.220]  Okay.
[49:07.960 --> 49:08.940]  That's, that's something.
[49:09.560 --> 49:09.960]  Um...
[49:09.960 --> 49:13.200]  See, that's why I had my camera off because I would totally be doing things like that.
[49:13.540 --> 49:15.000]  You know, that's, that's a good point.
[49:15.100 --> 49:15.580]  That's a good point.
[49:15.720 --> 49:17.860]  And, and you don't need cameras to have a phone conversation.
[49:18.120 --> 49:19.020]  It's, it's radio, right?
[49:19.220 --> 49:20.440]  So you really need that.
[49:21.140 --> 49:22.100]  Um, all right.
[49:22.140 --> 49:25.120]  Well, we'll give people a couple of minutes to be the last call.
[49:25.240 --> 49:26.700]  802-321-4225.
[49:27.020 --> 49:28.080]  802-321-HACK.
[49:28.080 --> 49:35.180]  And I'll also give everybody here the chance to, um, have some final thoughts on Hope.
[49:35.380 --> 49:38.920]  Liz or Alex or Voltaire or Kyle or me.
[49:40.220 --> 49:40.920]  Are you?
[49:41.700 --> 49:43.780]  Um, I, I guess I could start off.
[49:43.940 --> 49:48.960]  Um, something I've already started seeing a lot of feedback about was about the food options.
[49:49.100 --> 49:51.940]  It was a little hot to be walking around some people that were thinking.
[49:52.840 --> 49:58.240]  And, um, my husband and I had thought up of Friday night, oh, you know what it would have been?
[49:58.520 --> 49:59.220]  Food trucks.
[49:59.880 --> 50:05.100]  And the feedback channel on Matrix is full of people saying, hey, we should bring in food trucks next time.
[50:05.820 --> 50:19.080]  And, you know, I'm very down with this idea because we could, there's like so many good places, uh, well, by me in particular that do have trucks that could be, you know, parked over there and hang out.
[50:19.280 --> 50:25.080]  Um, the, the, the issue might be coming on to campus.
[50:25.260 --> 50:26.060]  I'm not sure about this.
[50:26.220 --> 50:31.160]  Uh, but if the food trucks were just off campus, do you know, do you think that might work?
[50:31.420 --> 50:32.380]  I think so.
[50:32.540 --> 50:35.300]  If we, if, cause we have open access to gate six, right.
[50:35.600 --> 50:43.320]  And assuming that this goes forward this way in the future, we could have people park on that side street right there, right by gate six.
[50:43.560 --> 50:52.580]  Or, um, if they go, when you're coming out of the parking structure, that little, I think that's gate five, that would be, that would be a great spot too.
[50:52.740 --> 50:56.600]  And they're on, um, they're right on union too.
[50:56.840 --> 50:59.700]  So it's pretty much all like right there.
[51:00.040 --> 51:00.340]  Union Turnpike.
[51:00.780 --> 51:07.700]  Union Turnpike has a lot of good places too, that you can walk to, but if you don't want to walk there, I understand having, having a truck nearby would really be good.
[51:07.700 --> 51:16.040]  I love how we're, we're basically just mapping it all out now because like the hotel, we're beginning to learn where everything is and we'll know the place better than they do.
[51:16.520 --> 51:18.580]  Um, I, I do think that's a great idea though.
[51:18.800 --> 51:21.540]  And, um, uh, something that I think the university will be open to.
[51:21.720 --> 51:23.480]  So we can, we can certainly suggest that.
[51:23.620 --> 51:27.980]  And any other suggestions people have, please write to us, feedback at hope.net.
[51:28.140 --> 51:29.520]  Uh, and anything else, Liz?
[51:30.460 --> 51:33.100]  Um, I don't know.
[51:33.220 --> 51:36.900]  Of course, uh, everyone I would ask is in the other room right now.
[51:37.420 --> 51:42.720]  So, um, yeah, that, that was really the big one was the food trucks.
[51:42.860 --> 51:45.480]  There were some issues I did see with the dorms, unfortunately.
[51:46.160 --> 51:51.900]  Um, mostly toward our, uh, non, uh, non-binary and gender non-conforming friends.
[51:52.500 --> 51:57.680]  Um, but I think that's something that we could definitely work through with, with the, with the university.
[51:58.660 --> 52:00.800]  Um, certainly, yes, definitely.
[52:01.280 --> 52:11.480]  And I guess for me personally, I, I'm starting to ramp up ideas for a talk or a workshop or both, and hopefully, you know, getting a little bit more involved in helping making the conference happen.
[52:11.700 --> 52:12.460]  So cool.
[52:12.800 --> 52:14.340]  And help us think of a new name.
[52:15.340 --> 52:16.140]  Oh yeah.
[52:16.400 --> 52:17.400]  I'm totally great.
[52:17.520 --> 52:18.660]  We can't use a new hope again.
[52:19.340 --> 52:19.780]  Yeah.
[52:20.020 --> 52:21.800]  Well, can't use next hope.
[52:22.040 --> 52:22.860]  No, can't use that one.
[52:23.440 --> 52:23.880]  Hmm.
[52:24.460 --> 52:25.560]  Well, we'll, we'll, we'll think of something.
[52:25.680 --> 52:26.160]  We have two years.
[52:26.800 --> 52:28.080]  Uh, Alex, uh, Voltaire, go ahead.
[52:28.280 --> 52:28.640]  Then Alex.
[52:30.000 --> 52:31.380]  Hope 2k22.
[52:32.420 --> 52:32.860]  Really?
[52:32.980 --> 52:33.520]  Oh no, 24.
[52:33.980 --> 52:35.760]  You see, you see the problem right there.
[52:35.880 --> 52:39.060]  You just demonstrated it, but, um, we'll, we'll, we'll think of something.
[52:39.320 --> 52:39.460]  Yeah.
[52:39.740 --> 52:40.100]  Alex?
[52:41.040 --> 52:43.360]  Maybe something like the, the eternal hope.
[52:44.360 --> 52:45.300]  Oh yeah.
[52:45.380 --> 52:49.340]  That's a lot of, a lot of, uh, commitment there, but, um, infinite hope.
[52:49.760 --> 52:50.720]  Any final thoughts?
[52:51.060 --> 52:52.540]  Voltaire, do you have something else you wanted to say?
[52:53.580 --> 52:53.980]  Yeah.
[52:54.200 --> 52:55.800]  I think the, the, the name, a new hope.
[52:55.940 --> 52:59.420]  Um, I think I was worried that it would be a bit presumptuous.
[52:59.420 --> 53:06.680]  Like I know that, um, the Pew Committee, we're a little bit scared that, um, initially not getting any, uh, submissions that everyone got.
[53:06.740 --> 53:12.960]  I was kind of worried that you weren't, you wouldn't get as many people showing up because like just everything after COVID has been so slow to pick up.
[53:13.080 --> 53:14.640]  New York, the city never sleeps.
[53:15.000 --> 53:17.400]  Tons of restaurants are closing super early even now.
[53:17.600 --> 53:18.980]  Um, and I was worried that that would happen.
[53:18.980 --> 53:29.300]  And this really did feel like a rebirth, um, and seeing such a good, a new start for a new location and a new post, post COVID world where everybody was taking masking super seriously.
[53:29.580 --> 53:29.920]  It was great.
[53:30.260 --> 53:35.900]  And it was less, it definitely was less, but that was something we wanted because we needed the space.
[53:36.040 --> 53:37.300]  We wanted to see the space work.
[53:37.760 --> 53:51.260]  And now that we know the space can work, uh, as, as things get better in society, I'm hoping more people will, will be a part of this and we'll help it grow and improve because yeah, that's certainly room for, for things to go better.
[53:51.620 --> 53:53.280]  And, uh, I look forward to that.
[53:53.400 --> 53:53.860]  Alex, go ahead.
[53:54.680 --> 53:54.820]  Yeah.
[53:54.900 --> 54:01.900]  I want to, uh, thank you and everybody for everything that, uh, you put into this.
[54:02.160 --> 54:08.660]  And, uh, you know, I, I'm proud to have played a minor part on, uh, you know, an important committee.
[54:09.580 --> 54:15.340]  And, um, you know, also I wanted, wanted to thank you for, uh, reintroducing me to Queens.
[54:15.340 --> 54:18.080]  It's been a really long time since I've been there.
[54:18.180 --> 54:21.840]  And I, I always kind of, uh, you know, ridiculed that burrow.
[54:22.480 --> 54:25.620]  Uh, uh, we know, you know, it's the best burrow.
[54:25.800 --> 54:26.300]  It's the best.
[54:26.380 --> 54:26.800]  It is the best.
[54:27.060 --> 54:30.620]  I don't care about not just the best burrow in New York, the best burrow in the damn country.
[54:30.920 --> 54:34.360]  Hey, look, I'm, I'm happy to eat my words, uh, so to speak.
[54:34.500 --> 54:38.680]  You will, you will eat your words and they'll be, they'll be spicy too, by the time we finish.
[54:38.680 --> 54:39.460]  You'll be served.
[54:39.580 --> 54:39.960]  That's right.
[54:40.180 --> 54:48.780]  Uh, Chinese restaurant flushing, but the, um, you know, I'm, I'm really looking forward to going back and, you know, and taking my kids and things there.
[54:48.960 --> 54:51.100]  It really is a different cultural experience.
[54:51.100 --> 54:53.860]  It feels in so many ways to me, like a different city.
[54:54.200 --> 54:57.900]  Uh, and it's, it's just, it was really easy to get to from Manhattan.
[54:57.900 --> 55:00.840]  I mean, hopping on the long Island railroad and then.
[55:01.120 --> 55:01.520]  Yeah.
[55:02.300 --> 55:03.340]  You had a trick.
[55:03.520 --> 55:08.940]  Some people were saying it took them an hour to get there, but you had a trick where that got you there in almost lightning speed.
[55:09.400 --> 55:10.380]  What, what, what, what did you do?
[55:10.740 --> 55:11.940]  It was really fast.
[55:12.100 --> 55:15.340]  I mean, I just, I didn't live, I don't live that far from Penn station.
[55:15.760 --> 55:22.880]  So, and I'm just, you know, hop on the subway, uh, Penn station, Long Island railroad to Jamaica.
[55:23.200 --> 55:28.920]  Almost every single train, uh, will go to Jamaica, except the trains, I think, go into Port Washington.
[55:29.120 --> 55:30.540]  I think they all stop at Jamaica.
[55:30.720 --> 55:31.280]  Yeah, don't get on that.
[55:31.900 --> 55:34.360]  And so, you know, there's a train leaving like every five minutes.
[55:34.360 --> 55:45.040]  And then the other thing is I was able to use the same ticket that I bought over and over again, because the, the trip is so short that the conductor doesn't even come by to check your ticket.
[55:45.160 --> 55:45.260]  Okay.
[55:45.300 --> 55:46.180]  That's not supposed to happen.
[55:46.480 --> 55:47.440]  That's not supposed to happen.
[55:47.600 --> 55:51.240]  Don't, don't promote that because that's, you know, you'll bankrupt the entire system then.
[55:51.800 --> 55:52.160]  Okay.
[55:52.480 --> 55:52.940]  So, right.
[55:53.060 --> 55:53.180]  Yeah.
[55:53.600 --> 55:54.900]  Well, um, yeah.
[55:55.040 --> 55:56.000]  So that, that was convenient.
[55:56.000 --> 55:57.840]  And then what happened when you got to Jamaica, what'd you do?
[55:58.560 --> 56:04.080]  Then I would just go right down to Finn Avenue and, you know, literally there's lines of cabs.
[56:04.560 --> 56:05.220]  Right there.
[56:05.720 --> 56:08.800]  And I hopped in a cab and, you know, I was there in less than 10 minutes.
[56:09.180 --> 56:09.460]  Awesome.
[56:09.940 --> 56:10.300]  Wow.
[56:10.360 --> 56:12.320]  So it was very, it was fast, you know?
[56:12.580 --> 56:14.740]  Hey, there's, there's one other thing.
[56:14.860 --> 56:17.760]  The one other thing I just wanted to talk about before we leave for the night and that's logistics.
[56:17.760 --> 56:21.600]  And this is where Kyle really, really was, was shining all weekend.
[56:22.140 --> 56:26.740]  Basically, you know, the, the, the phone booth, we had a, a, a 1950s phone booth.
[56:26.740 --> 56:31.820]  We had to get that thing in and out of the 2600 van, which you might've also seen.
[56:32.180 --> 56:43.140]  Uh, and, um, if, if you've ever directed a bunch of hackers to, uh, move something heavy and not kill themselves doing it, it's, um, it's a sight to behold.
[56:43.460 --> 56:46.720]  And, um, uh, Kyle just did an amazing job with that.
[56:46.720 --> 56:49.420]  So that's something I think it needs to be, needs to be recognized.
[56:53.070 --> 56:53.390]  Thanks.
[56:55.230 --> 56:57.090]  I was watching that entire thing.
[56:57.250 --> 56:58.030]  It was wild.
[56:58.270 --> 57:01.250]  I was like, oh, like my hands hurt watching that.
[57:01.710 --> 57:02.470]  I was scared.
[57:02.630 --> 57:02.990]  I was scared.
[57:03.090 --> 57:09.370]  But you know, when you know what you're doing, when you have the right equipment, it'll work, but you have to convince people of that sometimes.
[57:09.670 --> 57:09.870]  Yeah.
[57:09.950 --> 57:12.590]  You have to say, this is the way this is the, yeah.
[57:12.930 --> 57:13.530]  What is it?
[57:13.550 --> 57:14.570]  Some kind of Star Wars quote?
[57:15.030 --> 57:15.470]  Ah.
[57:16.110 --> 57:17.130]  It's a new hope.
[57:17.150 --> 57:17.550]  Okay.
[57:18.070 --> 57:18.250]  Yeah.
[57:18.330 --> 57:23.630]  You know, and this is the first Star Wars reference that I've heard in the whole weekend is now.
[57:23.790 --> 57:25.190]  So I guess, I guess I should be grateful.
[57:25.890 --> 57:26.770]  The Mandalorian.
[57:27.410 --> 57:27.850]  Yeah.
[57:28.150 --> 57:28.310]  Yeah.
[57:28.390 --> 57:28.750]  That's true.
[57:28.930 --> 57:29.470]  That's what it's called.
[57:29.910 --> 57:30.130]  Yeah.
[57:30.210 --> 57:32.050]  But you're, you're spot on.
[57:32.270 --> 57:46.650]  There was like, uh, uh, a symphony of activity, uh, and people training other people, people reminding other people to be safe and, uh, and not rush too much.
[57:47.170 --> 57:52.310]  Um, I, I kept realizing what would this have been like in Manhattan?
[57:52.450 --> 57:56.950]  You know, we'd be dealing with traffic or getting tickets or, or rain.
[57:56.950 --> 58:10.190]  I mean, at least when there was some weather, um, I got a little bit of sun, but when there was like some thunder and stuff, we had mostly sorted out all of our, all of our activity that, that required us to be outside.
[58:10.190 --> 58:13.730]  So we were not in the elements and exposed as much.
[58:13.870 --> 58:15.170]  And that felt really, really good.
[58:15.270 --> 58:18.090]  It increased, I think, uh, my confidence.
[58:18.090 --> 58:27.770]  And I think people getting together and working together again, it's a great way to familiarize yourself or re-familiarize yourself and re-socialize a little bit.
[58:27.770 --> 58:28.250]  Absolutely.
[58:28.570 --> 58:36.490]  And, uh, having, uh, having different tasks that are around this, this big sort of idea that is hope.
[58:36.910 --> 58:41.510]  Um, it's a challenge and everybody has a different idea of what it is.
[58:41.610 --> 58:45.710]  And of course, with hackers, everybody's, everybody's smart.
[58:45.910 --> 58:53.990]  You know, there's a lot of really smart people, but when you have a lot of really smart people, all trying to, to, um, have the answer.
[58:53.990 --> 58:55.650]  Yes, that can be a disaster.
[58:55.990 --> 59:01.850]  It can turn, it can get a little bit, uh, um, contentious, but, um, I don't know.
[59:02.310 --> 59:22.830]  No, no, um, no one was injured in, in, in the process of, uh, uh, issuing some stern reminders to just stop and listen, do more listening to one another than just, uh, everybody, um, barking their ideas and their, their concept of, of the right way.
[59:22.970 --> 59:23.970]  There's no right way.
[59:23.970 --> 59:43.170]  Like I, I think about this all the time when we're, we're, um, when we're creating the magazine and publishing realms and, and, um, you know, this, this, um, this thing of writing about hacking, like there's no right way to describe hacking.
[59:43.170 --> 59:49.050]  Like we're not, we're not, um, seeking perfect answers for what hacking is.
[59:49.190 --> 59:54.310]  We're just seeking different answers and different and the amalgamation of them.
[59:54.470 --> 59:58.370]  We think creates a, uh, a bigger and better picture of it all.
[59:58.470 --> 01:00:06.510]  And I think that is kind of the analogy for logistics that, you know, I don't know, especially in the new place, how exactly to do it.
[01:00:06.570 --> 01:00:09.390]  Cause I have nothing to reference to other than what we learned over the years.
[01:00:09.850 --> 01:00:11.990]  So directing it, I was open.
[01:00:12.270 --> 01:00:24.290]  And I think a lot of people were just, um, open to, to direction listening and, and also sharing what they might know to, to help keep, help look out for other people.
[01:00:24.290 --> 01:00:32.710]  And that's all I really asked is like, have a lot of fun and look out for one other, you know, make sure we can come back in one piece.
[01:00:32.950 --> 01:00:33.250]  Yeah.
[01:00:33.330 --> 01:00:34.770]  Well, it's that, it's that quiet confidence.
[01:00:34.770 --> 01:00:37.410]  I think that really helps it succeed.
[01:00:37.710 --> 01:00:40.270]  And, and, and it's, it's, uh, inspiring to people too.
[01:00:40.410 --> 01:00:41.130]  So thanks for that.
[01:00:41.450 --> 01:00:46.150]  And just thanks to everybody out there who made this event so special, so amazing.
[01:00:46.770 --> 01:00:50.370]  And, uh, just a real shot in the arm for the entire community.
[01:00:50.590 --> 01:00:56.090]  And, um, let's hope we can do it again in the future and keep building on that.
[01:00:56.150 --> 01:01:01.610]  And let's hope that in the time between now and then we have a lot of fun.
[01:01:01.710 --> 01:01:02.870]  We build a lot of other things.
[01:01:02.870 --> 01:01:06.470]  We share a lot of experiences and I sure look forward to them.
[01:01:06.670 --> 01:01:14.210]  Write to us either at OTH at 2600.com for the radio show, or if you have feedback for the conference, feedback at hope.net.
[01:01:14.850 --> 01:01:24.810]  We will be back next week, I believe for another edition of off the hook at seven o'clock on WBAI and off the hook over time at eight on YouTube channel 2600.
[01:01:25.030 --> 01:01:28.210]  If it has not been blacklisted for doing something against the rules.
[01:01:29.330 --> 01:01:30.090]  All right, folks.
[01:01:30.690 --> 01:01:32.110]  Again, it was a pleasure.
[01:01:32.410 --> 01:01:33.310]  It was, it was fun.
[01:01:33.950 --> 01:01:37.450]  Liz, I can't see you, but thank you for being there and for all you've done.
[01:01:38.270 --> 01:01:50.330]  And, uh, and, uh, Voltaire, good seeing you again, Alex, and of course, Kyle and, uh, Greg is, is in the air somewhere on his way back to Yukon and Mitch is outside.
[01:01:50.330 --> 01:01:52.170]  We don't know where or what he's doing.
[01:01:52.870 --> 01:01:53.390]  All right.
[01:01:54.470 --> 01:01:56.630]  He's turning off TVs all over the city.
[01:01:57.010 --> 01:01:57.430]  All right.
[01:01:57.530 --> 01:01:58.830]  That's, that's, that's all I need to know.
[01:01:59.450 --> 01:01:59.810]  All right.
[01:01:59.910 --> 01:02:00.670]  Down to Times Square.
[01:02:01.130 --> 01:02:02.030]  Is it going to Times Square?
[01:02:02.250 --> 01:02:02.350]  Yeah.
[01:02:02.490 --> 01:02:03.830]  Turn off the, turn off the big TVs.
[01:02:04.230 --> 01:02:05.490]  That's, that's, that's what you got to do.
[01:02:06.650 --> 01:02:07.110]  All right.
[01:02:07.230 --> 01:02:07.650]  Good night, everyone.
[01:02:08.390 --> 01:02:08.890]  Good night.
[01:02:09.230 --> 01:02:09.670]  Good night.
[01:02:10.210 --> 01:02:10.870]  Happy hacking.