[00:00.020 --> 00:07.080]  The previous program... Oh, now it's on.
[00:07.260 --> 00:07.540]  Okay.
[00:08.600 --> 00:16.900]  The previous program... The previous program was Economic Update with Richard Wolff.
[00:17.140 --> 00:20.540]  Heard Wednesdays at 6.30 p.m.
[00:20.600 --> 00:21.920]  Stay tuned for Off the Hook.
[00:21.920 --> 00:27.620]  And this is WBAI New York 99.5 FM and WBAI.org online.
[00:43.730 --> 00:44.270]  Hello.
[00:44.570 --> 00:46.670]  You're listening to WBAI New York.
[00:46.830 --> 00:51.910]  It's just about 7 o'clock, which means once again, it's time for Off the Hook.
[00:54.820 --> 00:55.780]  Really, it is.
[01:16.280 --> 01:18.020]  I hope that's understood.
[01:18.220 --> 01:19.040]  But make me know.
[02:46.400 --> 02:49.000]  And a very good evening to talk about the program is Off the Hook.
[02:49.140 --> 02:51.400]  Here we are, flying by the seat of our pants.
[02:52.560 --> 02:58.580]  Emmanuel here, joined by Kyle over on the other side of the studio, who's being silent.
[02:58.760 --> 02:59.700]  Thank you very much for that.
[03:00.020 --> 03:03.540]  And we have Rob T.
[03:03.660 --> 03:04.040]  Firefly.
[03:04.980 --> 03:05.760]  Good evening.
[03:06.000 --> 03:06.700]  We have Gila.
[03:07.220 --> 03:07.920]  Good evening.
[03:07.920 --> 03:09.720]  And I think we have Alex.
[03:09.920 --> 03:10.480]  Do we have Alex?
[03:12.720 --> 03:13.940]  We should have Alex.
[03:13.940 --> 03:14.980]  Yeah, you've got me.
[03:15.720 --> 03:17.400]  That sounded more like Rob than Alex.
[03:18.020 --> 03:18.460]  Alex...
[03:18.460 --> 03:19.020]  Good evening.
[03:19.480 --> 03:19.760]  Okay.
[03:20.180 --> 03:21.220]  How are you doing, Alex?
[03:21.500 --> 03:23.280]  Alex, it sounds like you're on a plane.
[03:27.600 --> 03:28.580]  Or maybe not.
[03:28.920 --> 03:30.300]  Maybe I'm not supposed to say that.
[03:31.420 --> 03:32.840]  It did sound like he's on a plane.
[03:34.000 --> 03:35.440]  Yes, he's muted on a plane.
[03:36.600 --> 03:37.780]  Alex, did you mute yourself?
[03:38.280 --> 03:40.400]  Yeah, we don't need the video, but respond.
[03:41.540 --> 03:42.900]  Everyone stop talking over each other.
[03:43.040 --> 03:43.860]  I think there's some...
[03:45.640 --> 03:46.160]  Including me.
[03:46.180 --> 03:48.100]  I think there's some latency, some serious latency.
[03:48.260 --> 03:49.540]  I think maybe that's...
[03:49.540 --> 03:53.520]  I've been meaning to talk to you about that for a while, Alex, but now is not the time.
[03:54.820 --> 03:55.380]  You know what?
[03:55.380 --> 03:55.820]  Let's try this.
[03:55.920 --> 03:57.180]  Let's see how much latency there is.
[03:57.280 --> 04:00.000]  I'm going to count down to one.
[04:00.560 --> 04:03.600]  And you say one the same time you think I'm going to say one.
[04:03.980 --> 04:05.380]  Is that clear?
[04:07.120 --> 04:07.560]  Yep.
[04:08.100 --> 04:08.220]  Okay.
[04:09.240 --> 04:13.060]  Five, four, three, two, one.
[04:14.220 --> 04:14.660]  One.
[04:14.940 --> 04:16.220]  And that's how much latency we have.
[04:16.320 --> 04:19.440]  Okay, so about a second and a half, I'd say, is what we have.
[04:19.620 --> 04:22.140]  Now, Alex, the real story here is you're on an airplane.
[04:22.260 --> 04:22.980]  Where are you going?
[04:25.600 --> 04:29.910]  I am on my way over to DEFCON, to the other Hacker province.
[04:30.120 --> 04:30.600]  Oh, that's right.
[04:30.900 --> 04:31.770]  That's this weekend.
[04:31.910 --> 04:34.560]  That's this weekend coming up in Las Vegas, right?
[04:36.680 --> 04:39.440]  Yeah, that starts actually tomorrow.
[04:40.060 --> 04:42.770]  So, it's going to start tomorrow and go through the weekend.
[04:43.540 --> 04:45.640]  I'll only be there for a couple of days.
[04:45.940 --> 04:46.620]  And then talk to you back.
[04:47.400 --> 04:52.800]  Well, I'm happy that you did not let that prevent you from taking part in tonight's program.
[04:52.800 --> 04:57.320]  Even though you're on an airplane, how high up are you right now?
[04:58.640 --> 05:02.120]  Oh, I'm about at sea level, actually.
[05:02.320 --> 05:06.150]  It's not as scary as it sounds, because we're actually just taxiing on the runway.
[05:06.440 --> 05:07.060]  Oh, you're on the runway.
[05:08.600 --> 05:08.960]  Wow.
[05:09.320 --> 05:10.400]  Okay, don't scare me like that.
[05:10.580 --> 05:11.440]  You're on the runway.
[05:11.600 --> 05:12.380]  You should be at sea level.
[05:12.530 --> 05:12.760]  Okay.
[05:13.900 --> 05:15.640]  So, what runway are you on?
[05:18.150 --> 05:19.760]  I'm over at JFK.
[05:22.150 --> 05:22.840]  Flying out.
[05:22.980 --> 05:24.380]  I'm on one of the runways.
[05:24.840 --> 05:26.000]  So, you're in Queens, too.
[05:26.120 --> 05:26.260]  Okay.
[05:26.360 --> 05:27.720]  So, everybody's in Queens tonight.
[05:27.900 --> 05:28.420]  That's great.
[05:29.880 --> 05:30.520]  How about one?
[05:30.580 --> 05:30.900]  Well, I'll stop.
[05:31.840 --> 05:32.260]  Okay.
[05:32.520 --> 05:36.760]  So, I guess you're going to take off while we're talking to you.
[05:40.530 --> 05:41.490]  Yeah, I think so.
[05:41.770 --> 05:42.710]  I think I will be taking off.
[05:42.870 --> 05:47.490]  And I might lose you, because I think at that point, I'll switch over to the Wi-Fi, in-flight Wi-Fi.
[05:47.590 --> 05:52.190]  And we'll be able to test to see how effective that is, how much bandwidth there is.
[05:52.290 --> 05:56.630]  And you can carry on a Skype conversation from 30,000 feet or so.
[05:56.850 --> 05:58.510]  Well, now, here's an awkward question.
[05:58.510 --> 06:02.730]  Are you supposed to be using a device while you're taxiing or taking off?
[06:04.850 --> 06:06.730]  That's not an awkward question at all, Emmanuel.
[06:06.770 --> 06:08.090]  The answer is absolutely not.
[06:08.970 --> 06:10.790]  You definitely should not be doing this.
[06:10.890 --> 06:11.550]  Well, wait a minute.
[06:11.930 --> 06:12.710]  Hold on a second.
[06:13.010 --> 06:19.610]  No, this would count as some kind of interstate crime, I think, if we continued talking about this.
[06:19.610 --> 06:20.250]  That's also something like that.
[06:20.550 --> 06:23.250]  And since I know about it now, I really...
[06:23.250 --> 06:25.430]  Surely, let it's a parapet takeoff.
[06:26.290 --> 06:27.370]  I heard that.
[06:27.470 --> 06:28.450]  I heard that pretty clearly.
[06:28.950 --> 06:34.970]  Alex, why don't you hang up now, and we'll call you back, or you reach out to us when you're safely up in the air.
[06:35.010 --> 06:35.510]  How about that?
[06:36.710 --> 06:37.670]  Yeah, that sounds great.
[06:37.670 --> 06:39.390]  I'm taking off moments early.
[06:39.550 --> 06:40.050]  Talk to you soon.
[06:40.230 --> 06:40.410]  Okay.
[06:41.450 --> 06:42.110]  Disconnect, please.
[06:42.530 --> 06:44.090]  For the safety of everybody on board.
[06:44.190 --> 06:46.250]  My God, I didn't know he was taxiing.
[06:46.470 --> 06:47.690]  Yeah, we shouldn't encourage that.
[06:47.690 --> 06:48.370]  I would not.
[06:48.370 --> 06:51.370]  I feel like we have an obligation to let the FAA take over.
[06:51.370 --> 06:54.830]  You know, it's the second time today Alex has been in the news.
[06:55.790 --> 06:56.990]  You know what the first time was?
[06:57.070 --> 07:02.850]  If you go to NewYorkTimes.com, there's a picture of Trump walking out of a building after pleading the fifth.
[07:03.870 --> 07:04.350]  Yeah.
[07:04.550 --> 07:10.670]  And if you watch the video, you'll see Alex standing in the background because it's next door to a building he had business in.
[07:10.870 --> 07:14.010]  And they were basically keeping everybody from getting in.
[07:14.010 --> 07:15.770]  And so what are the odds?
[07:15.970 --> 07:17.150]  What are the odds of that happening?
[07:17.710 --> 07:18.250]  Amazing.
[07:18.370 --> 07:18.470]  Yeah.
[07:18.570 --> 07:19.110]  What a week.
[07:19.390 --> 07:20.290]  What a week.
[07:20.670 --> 07:26.790]  The former president of the United States has his home raided by the FBI.
[07:27.770 --> 07:32.490]  Today, the former president of the United States under oath pleads the fifth.
[07:32.490 --> 07:34.730]  Fourth, it's Wednesday.
[07:35.430 --> 07:36.770]  It's only Wednesday.
[07:37.310 --> 07:40.830]  But, of course, the big headline is that the Hope videos are out.
[07:41.310 --> 07:41.650]  Yeah.
[07:41.710 --> 07:47.650]  A week ago, we were talking about tearing our hair out and all the software issues and video editing.
[07:47.810 --> 07:51.470]  And I got to give credit to Kyle here for somehow pulling it off.
[07:51.590 --> 07:52.250]  It's like magic.
[07:52.410 --> 07:57.330]  I don't know how he did it, but he was able to process all of them, all the videos.
[07:57.510 --> 08:00.070]  They're, well, they're mostly up on YouTube.
[08:00.230 --> 08:00.990]  We'll get to that in a second.
[08:00.990 --> 08:04.350]  But the fact that they're there, that's all Kyle.
[08:04.490 --> 08:07.030]  So thank you, Kyle, on behalf of the entire hacker community.
[08:07.490 --> 08:09.070]  You're welcome, hacker community.
[08:09.070 --> 08:12.650]  And it's my honor to help preserve that.
[08:12.650 --> 08:15.610]  And it's important to us to do a good job.
[08:16.130 --> 08:23.530]  And we weren't totally prepared, but we responded as quickly as we could.
[08:24.550 --> 08:31.390]  And as with a lot of the new things with this event, we just adapted and came up with some stuff.
[08:31.570 --> 08:54.050]  But I would encourage people, you know, when you're talking about software, specifically for stuff like video, the Free Software Foundation and the message behind that with all of these video and camera protocols and, you know, there's truth to that because you run into that so much with audio and video stuff.
[08:54.050 --> 09:00.190]  And there's been a lot that's been done with good applications for photo editing.
[09:01.090 --> 09:05.490]  The Free Software and Open Software movement has done a lot with that.
[09:05.630 --> 09:06.870]  There's been open cameras.
[09:07.430 --> 09:11.150]  There's a lot of innovation, even audio software.
[09:11.150 --> 09:13.770]  So I think nonlinear editors are next.
[09:13.990 --> 09:15.510]  It's ripe for the taking.
[09:15.770 --> 09:21.130]  I think that the dominance of only a couple versions...
[09:21.770 --> 09:33.130]  If you've seen anything from software like OBS, which is an incredible open broadcast software package, very much like OpenOffice...
[09:33.130 --> 09:33.390]  I mean...
[09:33.390 --> 09:34.690]  We'll be using it later on tonight.
[09:34.850 --> 09:35.250]  Yeah, yeah.
[09:35.250 --> 09:37.010]  We use it for the Overtime show.
[09:37.150 --> 09:37.630]  Of course.
[09:37.630 --> 09:41.610]  And OBS emerged from sort of gaming and online streaming communities.
[09:41.870 --> 09:44.470]  And that stuff needs to be encouraged.
[09:44.710 --> 09:49.770]  And, you know, the more we're relying on video, the more we're relying on different technologies.
[09:52.510 --> 09:59.190]  I'm thinking of design files for virtual spaces and stuff.
[10:00.310 --> 10:18.110]  We should be thinking about the kinds of stuff that we're tying ourselves to and then relying on because, you know, it's fine if someone like me who is, you know, Avid or something like that has been like an albatross and they just, like, haul around all the abuse that comes with that,
[10:18.310 --> 10:20.210]  you know, and then they're very damaged people.
[10:20.270 --> 10:23.430]  Avid is the name of software, not your mood at the moment, but...
[10:23.430 --> 10:23.630]  Correct.
[10:23.910 --> 10:24.110]  Yeah, yeah.
[10:24.110 --> 10:32.490]  Or, you know, other things like Final Cut or whatever these packages in the industry.
[10:32.670 --> 10:39.910]  You know, I've used all of them, a lot of them, a huge amount of them, even ones that, you know, you can't really get access to.
[10:40.030 --> 10:41.130]  You used most of them this week, I think.
[10:41.310 --> 10:47.150]  I used two main software packages at the same time for a good part of this.
[10:47.150 --> 11:07.850]  But, anyway, my end of rant, but the point is, you know, it's not trivial software and, you know, having a lot of different bad solutions, that doesn't really count as much as having a lot of people working on a good solution that fixes it.
[11:07.970 --> 11:09.250]  And there's promising stuff.
[11:09.350 --> 11:10.530]  VLC came through.
[11:11.170 --> 11:20.910]  The first thing we did is ran everything through what essentially uses FFmpeg and converted it all so we had much smaller, more manageable files.
[11:20.930 --> 11:24.490]  Can I just say, when you say we weren't prepared, I don't want it to sound like you didn't know what you were doing.
[11:25.350 --> 11:29.590]  Basically, we received all the videos in a format we weren't expecting.
[11:29.930 --> 11:40.210]  I believe they were in .mov format, but the thing is, there were entire days at a time in one chunk, and it's really, really hard to work with massive files in a lot of software and on a lot of computers.
[11:40.210 --> 11:43.730]  Well, we have a humble ability to work with video, but it's not...
[11:43.730 --> 11:54.550]  This isn't, you know, a Fifth Avenue type operation here, but, you know, just to be able to process them and to repair issues, that took some doing.
[11:54.830 --> 11:55.990]  But you got there.
[11:56.650 --> 11:57.090]  Right.
[11:57.230 --> 12:03.350]  And a lot of people typically, and this is probably not unusual, a lot of people are set up to work with camera formats.
[12:03.350 --> 12:22.330]  Like, if you bought a camera that has a specific format, if you're doing, you know, real video production, or you're used to working with intermediate formats, if you get something in something that's a little bit more finished, or the software package you're using doesn't normally work with files that big,
[12:22.350 --> 12:26.270]  or your system can't handle files that big, you run into all kinds of crazy stuff.
[12:26.270 --> 12:33.570]  For your graphics, there's a lot of, you know, we got good recordings, and there was a lot of data to go through.
[12:33.690 --> 12:39.610]  So just getting our heads around how to move stuff around efficiently, that took a little bit of doing.
[12:39.790 --> 12:44.290]  But anyway, we learned a lot and got it completed, which was really the most important part.
[12:44.450 --> 12:54.870]  And we want to thank all the people from the hacker community who wrote in to us with suggestions, very helpful suggestions on software to use, methods to go about, and it helped get us where we were going.
[12:54.870 --> 12:57.730]  And I just can't believe we got it all done within a week.
[12:58.150 --> 13:06.070]  It actually was released yesterday on YouTube, and we have flash drives now, and everything is set.
[13:06.950 --> 13:12.850]  I do want to talk about the YouTube controversy, because we did have a little dust-up with them.
[13:13.450 --> 13:15.930]  I'd like to do that when Alex is on the line, though.
[13:15.990 --> 13:24.690]  So let's give him a few more minutes to reach cruising altitude, and maybe we can reconnect with him and then have that conversation.
[13:24.870 --> 13:41.450]  But in the meantime, Gila, actually, I'd like to talk to you for a moment, because you have a reputation for uncovering the truth and going after all kinds of, shall I say, people who don't quite have it right.
[13:41.590 --> 13:43.710]  I'm talking organizations.
[13:43.810 --> 13:44.910]  I'm talking cults.
[13:44.910 --> 13:49.530]  I'm talking all sorts of, you know, basic bad guys.
[13:49.910 --> 13:56.630]  And you had a bit of a run-in last week when you criticized some Apple products.
[13:56.630 --> 14:04.290]  And I understand that your name is now on their most wanted list as far as people who dare to speak out.
[14:04.510 --> 14:10.550]  You said something about it being difficult to download music that you buy on iTunes.
[14:11.050 --> 14:14.010]  And, well, here's just one of the letters from...
[14:14.570 --> 14:22.330]  I'm not going to read names here, but basically this person takes issue with that, saying there's still definitely a way to manage your music on your iPhone manually.
[14:23.250 --> 14:31.270]  Granted, you need to use iTunes to transfer the files, but you are not locked to a music bought from iTunes, nor does Apple use a proprietary format.
[14:31.430 --> 14:34.130]  It uses AAC format, which is very open and common.
[14:34.270 --> 14:38.710]  And Apple was the first major digital music marketplace to offer DRM-free files.
[14:39.070 --> 14:44.770]  So, even if you hate Apple, please do not spread needless lies.
[14:47.490 --> 14:48.090]  Yeah.
[14:49.170 --> 14:51.290]  Well, it was strongly worded.
[14:51.530 --> 14:51.910]  It was strong.
[14:52.250 --> 14:53.450]  People are passionate.
[14:53.450 --> 14:58.990]  But you don't dare cross the Apple community because no matter what, they'll come back.
[14:59.150 --> 15:00.470]  It's like criticizing Google.
[15:00.670 --> 15:04.390]  They have all the fanboys out there that will speak out and say something.
[15:04.470 --> 15:05.910]  And no offense to the person who wrote in.
[15:05.950 --> 15:06.670]  I don't want any trouble.
[15:07.030 --> 15:21.390]  But do you maybe want to correct your statement or modify it in any way or maybe just back off and not say anything at all critical about Apple ever again?
[15:21.830 --> 15:23.370]  So, I don't know if it was necessary.
[15:23.450 --> 15:30.630]  I didn't really think critical about Apple so much as it was critical about my own technological abilities.
[15:30.830 --> 15:32.190]  All I want to do...
[15:32.190 --> 15:32.670]  Good, good.
[15:33.970 --> 15:35.150]  Fall on your sword.
[15:35.210 --> 15:36.210]  Fall on your sword.
[15:36.330 --> 15:37.170]  That is how it's done.
[15:37.890 --> 15:39.010]  Take note, people.
[15:39.130 --> 15:39.510]  Take note.
[15:40.410 --> 15:48.030]  All I want to do is drag and drop and that I'm having a very hard time doing.
[15:48.030 --> 16:10.890]  So, if anyone can explain to me in English without besmirching my reputation or accusing me of slandering a media conglomerate, I just want to put an MP3 burned from a record owned by my father that doesn't exist anywhere anymore.
[16:10.890 --> 16:19.650]  I want to put that recording on my phone without having to upload everything I own to iTunes.
[16:20.170 --> 16:30.430]  So, if anybody can explain to me how to do that without making me A, feel stupid and B, calling me a liar, I would appreciate both of those things.
[16:30.790 --> 16:31.350]  Thank you.
[16:31.350 --> 16:35.530]  And that was said without any sarcasm with the utmost respect.
[16:35.530 --> 16:43.250]  So, I just want to make sure people understand that that Gila is really, you know, asking a true question here.
[16:43.950 --> 16:51.130]  Rob, you're sitting right next to Gila and obviously, you can't help her because otherwise she would have by now.
[16:51.690 --> 16:54.730]  So, this is not something that is limited to just one person.
[16:54.910 --> 16:57.550]  It's basically, you know, we're not Mac people here.
[16:57.650 --> 16:58.050]  I'm sorry.
[16:58.970 --> 17:02.090]  Well, you know, the last time I used an Apple product with any regularity.
[17:02.190 --> 17:05.390]  It was the Apple IIgs which doesn't support MP3s either.
[17:06.070 --> 17:20.770]  But, no, the thing about this is Apple as a company had always, since the old days, marketed itself as the user-friendly option, the option that holds your hand and makes it very easy to do all the things you wish to do.
[17:21.070 --> 17:30.150]  So, I think maybe the fact that, you know, this has not been an easy quest for you, Gila, is maybe Apple's fault as a company.
[17:30.150 --> 17:32.110]  And a failure on the part of Apple.
[17:32.570 --> 17:33.070]  Rob, Rob, please.
[17:33.250 --> 17:35.010]  Maybe all those fans of Apple are wrong.
[17:35.170 --> 17:35.970]  Have we learned nothing?
[17:37.990 --> 17:38.910]  They'll come for us.
[17:38.970 --> 17:39.290]  They will.
[17:40.010 --> 17:42.390]  And just for the record, I say I'm not a Mac person.
[17:42.430 --> 17:45.350]  I do own two Macs, two Mac SEs.
[17:45.590 --> 17:46.650]  That's what they are, right, Kyle?
[17:47.390 --> 17:48.750]  Yeah, they're like classic.
[17:48.890 --> 17:49.570]  No, not classics.
[17:49.730 --> 17:50.490]  They're later classics.
[17:50.650 --> 17:51.830]  Yeah, they're nice machines.
[17:51.950 --> 17:53.750]  They hold up books right now.
[17:53.930 --> 17:56.650]  Well, one of them doesn't have any motherboard.
[17:56.650 --> 17:57.870]  Nobody needs to know that.
[17:58.070 --> 18:01.290]  The point is, they're on display and they're holding up books and they're doing a very good job.
[18:01.490 --> 18:04.670]  Yeah, they're mantelpieces that support bookshelves.
[18:05.950 --> 18:06.390]  All right.
[18:06.490 --> 18:10.970]  That bit of controversy aside, do you want to try, Alex?
[18:11.610 --> 18:17.770]  Actually, I don't want to try, Alex, if maybe they're, you know, still taking off, although it sounded like they were imminently taking off.
[18:17.990 --> 18:18.610]  I'll do what I can.
[18:18.610 --> 18:19.610]  Hang on, I got a message from him.
[18:19.610 --> 18:22.230]  I put my phone on mute so I didn't hear the message come in.
[18:22.870 --> 18:25.670]  And now I'm trying to get permission to read my own messages here.
[18:25.770 --> 18:26.670]  He might be appearing.
[18:27.610 --> 18:32.550]  Okay, it says Skype is not connecting, could be blocked, will try through VPN.
[18:33.270 --> 18:35.310]  Okay, but there he is on the screen, right?
[18:35.450 --> 18:36.090]  Isn't that him?
[18:36.230 --> 18:36.870]  Alex, are you there?
[18:38.470 --> 18:39.190]  He's muted.
[18:39.770 --> 18:41.230]  Alex, stop muting yourself.
[18:41.490 --> 18:42.050]  That's our job.
[18:42.390 --> 18:42.690]  Yeah.
[18:43.810 --> 18:44.530]  Oh, there you are.
[18:44.590 --> 18:45.090]  There's your face.
[18:45.270 --> 18:45.590]  I'm here.
[18:45.730 --> 18:46.570]  Wow, look at that.
[18:46.670 --> 18:47.390]  We can see him.
[18:47.390 --> 18:52.410]  You can't see him, radio audience, but he looks the same.
[18:52.550 --> 18:53.970]  I'm looking out the airplane right now.
[18:53.970 --> 18:54.590]  Look at that.
[18:55.010 --> 18:56.090]  The sky is blue.
[18:56.690 --> 18:56.870]  Wow.
[18:57.930 --> 18:58.250]  Okay.
[18:58.730 --> 19:01.870]  Well, Alex, it's not about the plane, it's about you.
[19:03.290 --> 19:03.810]  All right?
[19:04.150 --> 19:04.850]  Can you hear us?
[19:06.370 --> 19:07.330]  Something like that.
[19:07.390 --> 19:07.870]  Yeah, I hear you.
[19:08.030 --> 19:08.610]  Okay, great.
[19:08.910 --> 19:15.270]  So, you know, we mentioned that you were in the New York Times today on the front page for being in Trump's shadow.
[19:15.270 --> 19:19.410]  So, I was wondering if maybe you had anything to say about that.
[19:20.870 --> 19:21.850]  Did we lose him?
[19:23.050 --> 19:23.870]  Oh, there he is.
[19:24.370 --> 19:25.470]  Now, I'm here.
[19:26.390 --> 19:36.290]  Just bear with me with the delay because Skype appeared to be locked on the plane, which is interesting because when I connected it, you're very low, Alex.
[19:36.550 --> 19:36.690]  Yeah.
[19:36.810 --> 19:39.250]  If you could move the microphone closer to you, that'd be great.
[19:40.870 --> 19:41.270]  Yeah.
[19:47.130 --> 19:48.350]  Can you hear me all right?
[19:49.430 --> 19:49.790]  Mostly.
[19:49.810 --> 19:53.310]  If you just hold the microphone as close to you as possible, that'd be good.
[19:54.810 --> 19:55.070]  Yeah.
[19:55.750 --> 19:56.310]  Any better?
[19:56.490 --> 19:57.050]  That's perfect.
[19:58.970 --> 19:59.610]  Oh, it is.
[19:59.730 --> 20:00.070]  Okay, good.
[20:01.230 --> 20:05.650]  Yeah, I was on my way to work and my office is right next to the tower.
[20:05.650 --> 20:12.410]  Lately, there's been kind of a circus at least once or twice a week outside of New York.
[20:12.770 --> 20:14.750]  And today, they've been blocking the street.
[20:14.910 --> 20:22.110]  I was waiting to get into the great elevator side of my office because that's how I entered the office on the counter when cycling did.
[20:22.950 --> 20:31.930]  And Trump was coming out so we were waiting over there and I wound up being photographed as part of like this crowd standing behind Trump.
[20:32.230 --> 20:40.510]  I was just waiting and desperately angry for being delayed and getting into the office and I'm ready to play or show this one.
[20:41.490 --> 20:48.930]  So, and I'm literally in the background between Trump and Bush.
[20:49.290 --> 20:51.970]  So it's, yeah, a photograph.
[20:52.290 --> 21:00.430]  Just to clarify, not the former president or his family, an actual Bush that you were between of Trump and...
[21:00.430 --> 21:05.970]  Yeah, and by the way, Alex, as far as sound quality, you kind of degraded a little bit there.
[21:06.130 --> 21:12.790]  So maybe you moved your hand or something, but please go back to the way you were before where you were much louder and clearer if that's possible.
[21:18.450 --> 21:19.170]  I'll see that.
[21:19.430 --> 21:20.570]  Okay, see, that sounded great.
[21:20.750 --> 21:21.450]  That sounded amazing.
[21:22.110 --> 21:40.270]  So listen, as long as we have you here, we wanted to talk about what happened with YouTube this past week where basically we put all the Hope Talks up and they're getting a great response and people, your talk is on there.
[21:40.870 --> 21:48.330]  Every talk that took place at the Hope Conference of a couple of weeks ago is now available to watch.
[21:48.950 --> 21:58.510]  Except for one, there was a talk entitled Hacker Representation Throughout the Years, A Guided Tour of Hacker Appearances in TV and Cinema.
[21:58.650 --> 22:00.090]  This is a talk I really wanted to see.
[22:00.130 --> 22:03.610]  I wasn't able to see it live, but it's the kind of thing that I'm fascinated by.
[22:03.730 --> 22:06.570]  How have hackers been portrayed in television, in the movies?
[22:06.830 --> 22:08.550]  And they did a great talk.
[22:08.630 --> 22:21.390]  It was 90 minutes long and they basically kind of guided you through how hackers have been portrayed, what's realistic, what's not realistic, how the image has changed over the years, et cetera, et cetera.
[22:21.530 --> 22:23.330]  It's fascinating, really good response.
[22:23.710 --> 22:35.910]  And it got our stream taken down by Google in the middle of the conference because they were freaking out over copyright issues since they were showing clips of movies and TV shows.
[22:36.050 --> 22:44.310]  So we basically had to cut the feed to that room to prevent losing the entire conference being streamed online.
[22:44.710 --> 22:49.050]  Bad idea to use YouTube as our main way of streaming.
[22:49.550 --> 22:53.290]  We're having very serious discussions about how that happened.
[22:53.370 --> 22:55.430]  It was a bad decision, no question about that.
[22:55.990 --> 23:07.850]  But now we've moved to the stage where we're putting the videos up online and YouTube is the preferred method of seeing them only because of the ease of use and the fact that everybody is able to get to it immediately.
[23:09.050 --> 23:12.370]  But it's certainly not the only place that we want them to be seen.
[23:12.530 --> 23:18.430]  But what happened was when we tried to publish that particular talk, it was blocked.
[23:18.570 --> 23:24.250]  In fact, they wouldn't even allow us to put it up on the site where we could say it was blocked.
[23:24.250 --> 23:25.830]  It's just... it's hidden.
[23:26.070 --> 23:29.470]  You can't even see where it's being blocked at all.
[23:29.550 --> 23:30.430]  It's just not there.
[23:30.710 --> 23:32.990]  And the reason they gave...
[23:32.990 --> 23:34.830]  And this is the ultimate irony.
[23:35.350 --> 23:37.590]  We had a snippet.
[23:37.690 --> 23:42.390]  And by snippet, I mean something like 20, 25 seconds of a TV show.
[23:42.470 --> 23:43.570]  And you know what TV show it was?
[23:43.930 --> 23:44.870]  Mr. Robot.
[23:45.310 --> 23:57.350]  Probably the best program ever about hackers, the one that gets it, the one that is on our side on all these issues and the one that would condemn these idiotic copyright issues more than anybody.
[23:57.570 --> 24:06.830]  And yet, it's their publishing company, NBC Universal, that says, nope, you can't do this and we're blocking you and that's just the way it is.
[24:07.030 --> 24:10.950]  Now, first of all, fair use is a thing.
[24:11.070 --> 24:11.450]  Okay?
[24:11.650 --> 24:25.550]  And when you are giving an academic lecture on a particular work or a particular field of study, you are allowed to do exactly what these presenters did.
[24:25.730 --> 24:29.110]  And the audience has every right to see that.
[24:29.250 --> 24:48.810]  And I'm really getting sick and tired of how we are all living under some ridiculous interpretation of freedom that allows these megacorporations like Google to just say, no, you can't express this particular thought because we deem it owned by somebody else.
[24:50.470 --> 24:56.610]  and I'm not, Alex, if you're still connected to us, but if you are, I'm curious if you had any insight or thoughts on this.
[25:00.020 --> 25:01.160]  Yeah, how is it?
[25:01.220 --> 25:02.000]  Can you hear me all right?
[25:02.160 --> 25:02.800]  Before I keep going?
[25:03.040 --> 25:05.500]  No, we hear you fine as long as you keep loud.
[25:08.080 --> 25:08.720]  All right, good.
[25:09.320 --> 25:19.200]  Yeah, I mean, look, I think that's a perfect storm of potential copyright to be flagged multiple times by these algorithms that we discussed.
[25:19.500 --> 25:24.400]  I think this last week or the week before, but you're really there for the administrative convenience of these particular touches.
[25:24.620 --> 25:25.340]  Alex, you're fading.
[25:25.520 --> 25:26.380]  I don't know why you're fading.
[25:26.500 --> 25:28.660]  Are you wandering away from your microphone or something?
[25:28.760 --> 25:34.020]  If you just cram it up to your face or whatever, you start off loud.
[25:34.120 --> 25:34.940]  You've just got to stay loud.
[25:35.080 --> 25:39.320]  Yeah, that's, that's, that's very weird.
[25:39.460 --> 25:40.140]  It's about now.
[25:40.520 --> 25:40.740]  Better?
[25:41.300 --> 25:43.400]  Every time you address the issue, you sound fine.
[25:45.840 --> 25:46.580]  All right, yeah.
[25:46.920 --> 25:48.680]  Well, I think, I'll just keep going.
[25:48.680 --> 26:00.000]  I think it's a, a function of these, you know, these outbreaks are used with convenience and potentially flagged copyrights, copyright copyright materials and will just keep them down.
[26:00.900 --> 26:03.800]  Now, if you, if you notified, you could use it later on.
[26:04.020 --> 26:06.100]  Hang on, this is fair use.
[26:06.240 --> 26:07.300]  All of these things are being used.
[26:07.400 --> 26:09.680]  This isn't reported for academic discussion.
[26:10.380 --> 26:16.520]  And then NBC came back and said, well, no, we still don't believe the right need to teach them to take those items.
[26:16.940 --> 26:33.420]  At that point, you could, I, I, but Alex, what you're talking about, you're talking, if I, if I can understand, what you're talking about is having a lengthy discourse with these entities going back and forth saying, yes, we do have the right.
[26:33.700 --> 26:42.920]  And yeah, you know, I think we would win any such conversation, at least, uh, logically we would, but, um, we shouldn't have to do that.
[26:43.040 --> 26:44.100]  Nobody should have to do that.
[26:44.380 --> 26:48.160]  Think of all the creativity that's being stymied as a result of this.
[26:48.560 --> 26:57.340]  And you know, what's, what's, what's really funny is that, um, I was looking around on our, our, our YouTube account and we've been given access to the same tool.
[26:57.780 --> 26:59.540]  Yeah, it just sort of slipped in there.
[26:59.620 --> 27:05.360]  There's a copyright button and, and you can basically do the same thing to other people that use your material.
[27:05.800 --> 27:13.960]  And so I checked it out because, you know, we have no intention of doing that to anybody, but just, just to see how it, um, it, it, um, it worked.
[27:14.380 --> 27:21.620]  And, uh, they basically give you a list of every, um, instance where your work is being used by somebody else.
[27:21.740 --> 27:24.060]  And do you know who the number one offender was?
[27:24.940 --> 27:28.620]  It was some guy who posted a negative land film.
[27:28.820 --> 27:29.820]  It wasn't negative land.
[27:29.960 --> 27:31.900]  It was somebody who posted a negative land film.
[27:32.380 --> 27:36.680]  And somehow YouTube thinks that that's our property.
[27:37.360 --> 27:49.340]  And, and I don't know how they reached that conclusion, but maybe it was when, when, um, Mark Hosler from negative land gave a talk at, um, one of the hope conferences and excerpted part of that film.
[27:49.340 --> 27:55.600]  And, and that wound up on a YouTube channel and YouTube said, oh, that must belong to the hope conference.
[27:55.780 --> 28:06.640]  So now we can technically go after negative land and say, yeah, you shouldn't have this material online even though you didn't post it, somebody else did, uh, because it belongs to us, even though it's 100% yours.
[28:07.000 --> 28:09.500]  This is the logic that we are dealing with right now.
[28:09.680 --> 28:12.360]  This is the absurdity and the incompetence.
[28:12.960 --> 28:15.780]  It's, it's high time it stopped being the default.
[28:15.780 --> 28:23.480]  So, yeah, you know, while, um, having, having our content on other place, uh, other, uh, services is a great idea and I, I want to do that.
[28:24.000 --> 28:30.680]  Um, we need people to coordinate it, but we also want to keep this on YouTube because we want to have conversations like this.
[28:30.700 --> 28:36.200]  We want to be able to expose things like this and you have the situation where that's exactly what's happening.
[28:36.320 --> 28:49.300]  And also, I should point out, uh, we are not, um, preventing that particular talk from getting out on our full collections, uh, and we're certainly not, uh, discouraging anybody from copying it or, or, uh, making it available in any forum.
[28:49.540 --> 28:55.560]  Um, but this is, um, I think the beginning of, of, a bit of, um, a battle over this.
[28:55.720 --> 29:06.180]  I think we need to stop, uh, buying wholesale this attitude that it's, um, only, uh, in place to protect publishers or copyright owners.
[29:06.560 --> 29:14.000]  The truth of the matter is they're profiting on keeping people, uh, limiting the, the distribution of ideas.
[29:14.480 --> 29:33.480]  And in this case, a talk like this actually goes a long way to educating people to the harms and the, uh, tropes, the, uh, stereotypes and, um, and behaviors that, um, have really defined and, and been things that the hacker community's grappled with and,
[29:33.820 --> 29:57.300]  uh, especially media portrayals, how the, the media around, uh, archetypal, uh, characters that are, uh, hackers or mysterious, uh, unusual, uh, uh, technology, um, centered, uh, protagonists, um, how that hurts cases, real life cases where people are,
[29:57.300 --> 30:05.440]  um, made out to be, uh, some, uh, incredibly capable person that is thus, uh, to be feared.
[30:05.600 --> 30:10.320]  And, and, uh, and that, that is, um, truly what's happening here.
[30:10.320 --> 30:31.360]  They're, uh, protecting some publisher, but it's, it's an academic discussion about, um, the groups that, uh, really are due a little bit more protection in light of how wrong this, uh, uh, this has, um, how wrong this has been for them and, and in discussing it,
[30:31.460 --> 30:46.080]  you have to be able to show examples to open it up and, and reframe how all of that stuff has built to the, to the juncture or to the, the kind of present state of, of all of those issues for, for our community.
[30:46.300 --> 31:01.220]  So I, I think it's just, it's so crucial and ironic, darkly ironic that this talk, one that is to set things straight from, uh, hackers and, and from everything they know of what has been produced creatively about hackers.
[31:02.480 --> 31:15.880]  and I, I just get really passionate about that because I know that's the work, uh, that the magazine does and that, um, you know, a lot of the writers, uh, listeners, people who've, who've authored articles or shared their, um, know-how and stuff, they,
[31:15.960 --> 31:34.860]  they take very seriously, uh, uh, their ability to, to tell their own stories and, and, um, you know, we want to honor the, the kinds of, uh, information that people provide and to get things right and to be corrected or at least accurate, um, it's so important and then to,
[31:35.240 --> 31:47.480]  and, but to have this under the guise of, of, uh, protecting some, uh, starving content owners is, it's just so, um, uh, misleading and, and, and that's why I think it's just wholesale.
[31:47.780 --> 31:49.900]  It's, it's not really what they're protecting.
[31:50.000 --> 31:52.920]  They are profiting and I think this is the way we should look at it.
[31:53.000 --> 31:57.980]  They're profiting on, uh, on limiting the distribution of ideas.
[31:58.300 --> 32:15.220]  I mean, that's what a lot of the music, a lot of the publishing, a lot of the now cinema and digital, uh, art, a lot of that is communicating, is telling stories but, but also spreading information about what's going on around you in the world or about,
[32:15.320 --> 32:19.920]  uh, specific things in, in technology or, or otherwise.
[32:20.340 --> 32:26.260]  And to limit that and to profit off that, I think should be, um, it should be more taboo than it is.
[32:26.580 --> 32:26.820]  Bravo.
[32:27.060 --> 32:27.240]  Yes.
[32:27.480 --> 32:30.760]  Now, Alex, I think you're going to give it another shot as far as, uh, talking in.
[32:30.960 --> 32:32.000]  Then we have Rob saying something.
[32:32.060 --> 32:32.940]  Go ahead, Alex.
[32:35.280 --> 32:35.760]  All right.
[32:35.760 --> 32:36.220]  Sounds good.
[32:36.220 --> 32:37.580]  Can you guys hear me any better now?
[32:37.840 --> 32:39.800]  Yeah, it sounds like you're, you're, you're getting your teeth drilled.
[32:40.000 --> 32:42.080]  But other than that, uh, yeah, you sound fine.
[32:42.500 --> 32:44.040]  Did you roll up an in-flight magazine?
[32:47.340 --> 32:48.140]  That's right.
[32:48.480 --> 32:49.560]  Yeah, all right, good.
[32:50.560 --> 32:59.400]  you know, I'll take it back maybe a couple of minutes here because I, I, uh, I couldn't hear what was going on while I was switching in and out headphones and speakers.
[33:02.080 --> 33:02.800]  Go right ahead.
[33:02.920 --> 33:04.020]  Yeah, yeah, you sound fine now.
[33:07.400 --> 33:12.120]  Well, you did sound fine and now you're kind of breaking up.
[33:12.260 --> 33:14.920]  So maybe you're going over, uh, enemy territory or something.
[33:15.300 --> 33:16.140]  Yeah, don't brag to me.
[33:16.320 --> 33:17.520]  But I think uh,
[33:22.090 --> 33:26.590]  Rob, why don't you go ahead with what you were going to say and then we'll go back to Alex and hopefully, uh, he will have cleared up by then.
[33:26.690 --> 33:26.870]  Go ahead.
[33:27.570 --> 33:39.870]  Okay, I, um, I, it always, it always chills me a bit when, uh, takedowns and, uh, and warnings and, you know, legalese and stuff are left to the robots to do because the copyright, uh, robots.
[33:40.050 --> 33:40.170]  Okay.
[33:40.350 --> 33:42.010]  Well, uh, here comes Alex.
[33:43.070 --> 33:44.630]  There was some long lag there, Alex.
[33:48.150 --> 33:49.090]  Now go ahead, Alex.
[33:55.140 --> 33:56.860]  Okay, uh, Rob, why don't you continue?
[33:57.240 --> 33:58.120]  Alex, you be quiet.
[33:58.380 --> 33:58.660]  Go ahead.
[33:59.540 --> 34:14.160]  Okay, so, so the copyright robots are never going to know the intricacies of legal and, uh, and fair uses of, uh, material that belongs to someone else, like in this panel, which I think was, uh, using them as clips to illustrate a, a larger academic point.
[34:14.300 --> 34:18.740]  And there's, I think there, there's an argument to be made, um, for, for fair use.
[34:18.740 --> 34:20.720]  as, uh, as in effect there.
[34:21.080 --> 34:31.660]  And, you know, there are so many perfectly legal, perfectly legitimate reasons that, uh, something you put out there could use bits and pieces of some, of some existing intellectual property.
[34:32.200 --> 34:40.620]  Um, but the, the default setting on, uh, on these robots is they're infringing, they're breaking the law, threaten them, take down, take down their work, what have you.
[34:40.620 --> 34:46.320]  Um, it reminds me of something that happened, um, to 2600 magazine in 2015.
[34:46.500 --> 35:01.780]  Um, you may remember the August, or, or the spring 2012 issue of the magazine that was a nice, uh, a nice cover, which, uh, featured as part of it, uh, a picture of an ink splatter that was, uh, a piece of clip art basically used by, by the cover artist.
[35:02.420 --> 35:19.980]  And, um, some company, um, which represented the owners of some completely different image that also used that ink splatter clip art claimed that your cover was, um, that 2600 cover was, uh, an infringement and, uh, sent, uh, and sent a nasty email about it or a nasty letter about it.
[35:20.180 --> 35:20.840]  A bill as well.
[35:20.980 --> 35:22.040]  They, they wanted us to pay.
[35:22.520 --> 35:22.960]  Yeah.
[35:23.560 --> 35:32.180]  And, uh, and, you know, that, that clip, that clip art of that pink, of that paint splatter was not the property of, of anybody that was threatening you.
[35:32.280 --> 35:39.080]  It just happened to match in the eyes of a computer part of this other image with part of the cover of the 2600 issue.
[35:39.520 --> 35:44.480]  And, uh, it was another case of just the robots, uh, being deep, you know, defaulting to threatening.
[35:44.680 --> 35:52.460]  No humans looking at that and trying to figure out if, hey, maybe this is, uh, maybe this isn't legit before sending out a threat, a bill, all that sort of stuff.
[35:52.800 --> 36:01.120]  You know, it's interesting too because eventually it did get the attention of humans at that organization who said, of course, this is nonsense and, and, uh, negated the whole thing.
[36:01.240 --> 36:11.820]  But it became known as Splotchgate and it was a good example of how something as, uh, you know, innocuous as, as an ink splatter, uh, could turn into the center of a copyright battle.
[36:12.000 --> 36:23.680]  And it's just, the absurdity of this, uh, you know, it's funny, but it's also serious because a lot of creativity is being stymied as a result and a lot of people are, are living in fear and overreacting too.
[36:24.100 --> 36:27.480]  You know, saying, I better not do this because it might, it might have this effect.
[36:27.740 --> 36:36.740]  So, you know, maybe the next time somebody wants to give a talk on, on hacker representation in the media, they'll decide not to do it because of what the robots might do.
[36:37.420 --> 36:41.440]  I can't believe I just said that sentence, but it's literally what people are living right now.
[36:42.040 --> 36:46.000]  So, um, yeah, it's, it's, it's, uh, it's a serious issue.
[36:46.060 --> 36:47.880]  It's a funny issue, but it's also a serious issue.
[36:48.100 --> 36:50.220]  And I think it's one that we need to get on top of.
[36:50.280 --> 36:53.540]  It's an example of how if you, if you give an inch, they take a mile.
[36:53.740 --> 37:03.560]  Uh, and, and, and right now we're living under these bizarre rules where, you know, a particular musical note, um, can, can land you in trouble if it's in the wrong place.
[37:04.020 --> 37:04.840]  Aguila, it looks like you have something.
[37:05.340 --> 37:15.260]  Well, I, I do because there's, there was an ongoing issue with a YouTube creator that I follow who got copyright struck, how did, striked?
[37:16.160 --> 37:16.360]  Struck?
[37:16.560 --> 37:23.960]  Three copyright strikes were filed against her channel in very quick succession by someone who she was parodying who took umbrage.
[37:24.380 --> 37:28.000]  And there was a time when it looked like they were going to take the whole channel down.
[37:28.240 --> 37:34.840]  But, because of the personal copyrights, like there were people involved on both sides.
[37:35.020 --> 37:42.880]  So I can't help but wonder if there was a, an actual action from an actual copyright holder.
[37:43.400 --> 37:54.240]  Like if that could escalate things in a way and, and get the attention of some sort of moderator in a way that perhaps the automated processes are not.
[37:54.340 --> 38:01.020]  That's one of the reasons why we're talking about it because we hope to have that kind of a back and forth where, where common sense prevails.
[38:01.020 --> 38:02.800]  And what's funny is you mentioned copyright strikes.
[38:02.980 --> 38:04.680]  We don't even have any copyright strikes.
[38:04.820 --> 38:18.340]  What we got what just notices that this is something that another company has claimed as theirs and they're going to monetize the channel or, or look at the, the graphics or the, the statistics from the channel or something as a result.
[38:18.640 --> 38:24.060]  And in all cases, this, this particular talk was, had 11 different instances.
[38:24.920 --> 38:29.700]  But it's, it's the Mr. Robot one that supposedly got it blocked in most of the world.
[38:29.700 --> 38:31.500]  And that's, that's what wound up happening.
[38:31.660 --> 38:32.620]  It was blocked in the United States.
[38:32.620 --> 38:34.660]  It was not blocked in the UK for some reason.
[38:34.880 --> 38:35.440]  I don't know.
[38:35.500 --> 38:37.040]  Maybe people in the UK can see it.
[38:37.140 --> 38:48.060]  Maybe some of our British listeners can, can let us know if, if they can find that talk on, on the, channel 2600 page under A New Hope.
[38:49.260 --> 38:52.300]  But basically, we don't have any copyright strikes.
[38:52.520 --> 38:58.580]  These were just notices telling us that this is the way it's going to be laid out.
[38:58.680 --> 39:09.520]  It's going to be claimed by another entity 11 different times and one time it was blocked and we can't get access to it to, to change that.
[39:09.520 --> 39:19.740]  Yeah, and I just want to reiterate how, here we are since we're, we're not able to interrogate robots, overzealous robots about it.
[39:20.340 --> 39:29.360]  Here we're talking about it and it, and it appears like we should not have been prevented from continuing our stream.
[39:29.800 --> 39:48.200]  But, the real world impact was a lot more significant than what, what I think our discussion has, has led us to which is, this was innocuous or innocuous and not a, a reason to be, to be shut out of our ability to stream.
[39:48.340 --> 39:51.280]  And it took an appreciable amount of time to fix that.
[39:52.520 --> 39:58.420]  And, you know, we were directly involved in scrambling and making sure that people were able to continue to enjoy our event.
[39:58.420 --> 40:04.880]  First of all, yeah, let me, let me just, again, reiterate what a bad idea it was to have YouTube be the primary carrier of our conference for, for the stream.
[40:05.600 --> 40:14.200]  But, what was happening then while that talk was going on, we got one warning and then it was cut.
[40:14.480 --> 40:23.240]  And when they cut the live stream, they also cut the ability for people to go back and see any talk that took place the two days before that.
[40:23.340 --> 40:24.180]  And that really sucked.
[40:24.560 --> 40:26.460]  And then they issued this warning.
[40:26.660 --> 40:27.920]  These are all robots doing this, by the way.
[40:28.000 --> 40:33.220]  Issued this warning saying, if it happens again, your entire stream, meaning the entire conference, will be cut off.
[40:33.380 --> 40:36.100]  So nobody would be able to see the rest of hope.
[40:36.400 --> 40:54.000]  So we had to basically overthink everything from that point, saying, okay, if you show this image or play this particular bit of sound, is this going to upset Google, YouTube enough to cut us off and cut off the whole conference?
[40:54.060 --> 40:55.060]  It's a horrible way to think.
[40:55.060 --> 40:56.360]  It really is.
[40:56.520 --> 40:59.060]  And we should not be doing that at all.
[40:59.240 --> 41:03.640]  And again, yeah, we will not be using YouTube as our primary source ever again.
[41:03.760 --> 41:09.080]  We will use YouTube because it's a great way to reach people and also to uncover things like this.
[41:09.200 --> 41:11.700]  But you always, always must have a backup.
[41:11.940 --> 41:14.580]  And this is a great example of that.
[41:15.220 --> 41:17.480]  Okay, so Alex is no longer here.
[41:17.600 --> 41:18.380]  We don't know where he is.
[41:18.460 --> 41:20.300]  I guess he's in flyover country, right?
[41:20.900 --> 41:24.520]  That must be where you go when you can't talk to anybody anymore.
[41:25.440 --> 41:28.800]  Maybe we'll hear from him in the 10 or so minutes we have left.
[41:28.960 --> 41:30.420]  Maybe he'll be there for overtime.
[41:30.760 --> 41:31.320]  We'll see.
[41:31.640 --> 41:33.620]  He's probably getting his beverage service.
[41:33.780 --> 41:34.820]  Probably getting beverages now.
[41:35.020 --> 41:35.220]  Yeah.
[41:36.080 --> 41:36.640]  We'll see.
[41:36.820 --> 41:37.180]  Pretzels.
[41:37.360 --> 41:37.740]  I don't know.
[41:37.800 --> 41:42.620]  When I flew airplanes, flew in airplanes decades ago, there were phones on the planes.
[41:42.620 --> 41:43.920]  You could make a phone call.
[41:44.420 --> 41:49.040]  They cost $10 a minute, but still, it seemed to sound better than this.
[41:49.620 --> 41:53.560]  Okay, we have a letter from a Robert, different Robert, not Robert T.
[41:53.640 --> 41:53.880]  Firefly.
[41:54.580 --> 42:02.040]  I was just listening to you talk about A New Hope, which I was a virtual member of as I was at MCH myself.
[42:02.640 --> 42:04.880]  MCH, may contain hackers, the Dutch camp.
[42:05.100 --> 42:06.420]  What happened to them?
[42:07.000 --> 42:15.580]  They were supposed to be communicating with us during A New Hope throughout the opening ceremonies, the closing ceremonies, and we never heard from them.
[42:15.860 --> 42:18.640]  It's like 1997 all over again, where they just vanished.
[42:18.960 --> 42:25.240]  I know they probably had some technical issues, but boy, you know, Dutch people usually figure it out much quicker than that.
[42:26.100 --> 42:32.960]  But yeah, so if you notice the MCH logo on many of our cards during the videos, that's what it was supposed to be.
[42:33.820 --> 42:37.820]  And I assume those talks are available someplace as well, so I'd like to see those.
[42:38.280 --> 42:42.960]  Anyway, I love the fact that you streamed the conference at your location.
[42:43.240 --> 42:47.380]  We should have done the same and reserved some location.
[42:47.600 --> 42:49.220]  I'm not exactly sure what they mean by that.
[42:50.280 --> 42:51.320]  Hopefully they streamed it.
[42:51.340 --> 42:52.080]  Hopefully they saved it.
[42:52.660 --> 42:57.200]  I heard you say that it'll take a while before the videos are online on the infamous YouTube.
[42:57.480 --> 42:58.500]  Well, that was last week.
[42:58.940 --> 42:59.940]  They're online now.
[43:00.120 --> 43:03.820]  Have you considered hosting all your video content at the CCC Archive?
[43:03.860 --> 43:05.700]  I consider their archive and video team just awesome.
[43:05.880 --> 43:06.520]  We do too.
[43:06.740 --> 43:07.940]  They are very awesome.
[43:08.140 --> 43:13.440]  And we certainly have no objections to having our content archived at the CCC Archive.
[43:13.440 --> 43:18.580]  CCC being the Chaos Computer Club I guess is the official title.
[43:18.800 --> 43:23.860]  Also the Chaos Communication Congress and the Chaos Communication Camp, all of which could be CCC.
[43:25.260 --> 43:31.800]  But they're the German hackers that really get things done and they have a great archive as well and we certainly would like to be there.
[43:32.420 --> 43:37.400]  It's just a question of should they be the primary source?
[43:37.840 --> 43:38.680]  Well, maybe they should.
[43:38.840 --> 43:41.740]  But again, we still want to use YouTube as well.
[43:43.820 --> 43:55.360]  Anyway, it would also be amazing if you would use their streaming facilities during an event the way the content is online right now as stream dumps and hours later as content.
[43:55.500 --> 44:03.700]  I think what he's saying is that it'll be available immediately, which is what we were hoping to do and weren't able to pull off quite as well as we've done in the past.
[44:04.540 --> 44:28.680]  Well, again, this goes back to a lot of the new teams that we were building and and a lot of the influence of course of CCC using various tools and trying to take on some of these things as a group and overall basically reduce some of our overhead and really build up skills.
[44:28.940 --> 44:30.900]  We have a lot of really talented people.
[44:30.900 --> 44:31.540]  Let's be fair here.
[44:31.620 --> 44:36.420]  I mean, Germany, okay, every newborn is wired for fiber immediately, okay?
[44:36.560 --> 44:38.820]  They just have technology that works.
[44:38.960 --> 44:39.860]  They have infrastructure.
[44:40.740 --> 44:45.720]  I'm not saying it's easy, but I'm just saying it's the challenges that we go through.
[44:46.000 --> 44:49.100]  And this, as Carl said, it was new, a new space.
[44:49.440 --> 44:53.000]  We had a lot of things to try out for the first time, so we knew there were going to be some rough patches.
[44:53.080 --> 44:55.560]  But the good news is that we got it all in the end.
[44:55.960 --> 44:56.140]  Sure.
[44:56.440 --> 44:58.900]  And I mean, yeah, don't get me started on challenges.
[44:59.500 --> 45:00.840]  It'll be a different kind of the show.
[45:01.780 --> 45:02.820]  We like challenges.
[45:03.620 --> 45:04.860]  Okay, Rob, go ahead.
[45:04.920 --> 45:05.960]  I think I heard something from Alex.
[45:07.040 --> 45:12.000]  Just for anyone interested in the May Contain Hackers Conference, they do have their videos up.
[45:12.080 --> 45:15.520]  You can see it at mch2022.org.
[45:15.660 --> 45:18.320]  That's mch2022.org.
[45:18.460 --> 45:19.800]  You can rewatch the talks.
[45:20.040 --> 45:21.780]  Most or all of them seem to be in English.
[45:22.740 --> 45:24.560]  And you can check that out there.
[45:25.000 --> 45:25.260]  Okay.
[45:25.260 --> 45:29.840]  So Alex just texted me saying I don't seem to be able to reconnect.
[45:29.980 --> 45:36.560]  What I've been asking him, though, is if you're able to send me this text, why can't you connect via a wheezing signal?
[45:37.240 --> 45:41.880]  I'm going to just be unprofessional here and call him live from my phone and see if it goes anywhere.
[45:44.220 --> 45:45.180]  Let's see if that works.
[45:45.600 --> 45:46.920]  It might be as simple as that.
[45:47.800 --> 45:48.460]  It's ringing.
[45:50.120 --> 45:52.220]  His phone might be ringing on the plane.
[45:54.160 --> 45:55.080]  Can you guys hear that?
[45:56.040 --> 45:56.720]  Yes, we can.
[45:57.220 --> 45:58.260]  Well, let's see if he picks up.
[46:03.480 --> 46:05.360]  Of course, his phone may be in his luggage.
[46:10.110 --> 46:12.110]  Maybe his phone's in the seat and he's in his luggage.
[46:12.470 --> 46:16.790]  We'll try this again during overtime, which, by the way, starts at 8 o'clock.
[46:16.890 --> 46:17.870]  We're doing that again this week.
[46:18.250 --> 46:22.730]  It's on our favorite site in the world, youtube.com, channel 2600.
[46:25.210 --> 46:27.490]  And I think Alex is just ghosting us.
[46:27.690 --> 46:28.530]  I think that's what's happening here.
[46:28.970 --> 46:31.070]  Can I just comment on the YouTube critique?
[46:31.070 --> 46:42.090]  I think that in our defense, like, we can comment about all of these services, but we're still operating in the same space that everybody else is.
[46:42.230 --> 46:45.350]  And yeah, like, we have a YouTube channel.
[46:46.150 --> 46:53.090]  We've curated it much in the way many millions of people around the world have curated their YouTube channel.
[46:53.210 --> 47:13.290]  We aren't like head over heels for all and every of these platforms, but just denying ourselves at every turn the ability to be on any one of them and then fielding questions and comments from everybody about why aren't you here and why aren't you there and you should be there and you should do this.
[47:13.290 --> 47:15.390]  again, you know, it gets exhausting.
[47:15.590 --> 47:21.250]  Yeah, by all means, we should be in all those places, but to expect us to do all the leg work for all those things, it's a full time job.
[47:21.370 --> 47:35.430]  Oh, everybody is so willing to point and share all their ideas, but to do what it takes to actually implement that, you're really asking a lot and I get a little bit perturbed.
[47:35.530 --> 47:36.430]  Yeah, but let's be fair.
[47:43.290 --> 47:44.490]  We just can do it all ourselves.
[47:45.210 --> 47:58.530]  Obviously, we need support and more people involved and the thing is when you say, okay, this is a great platform, let's use CCC as an example, okay, we're streaming on CCC, how many people listening right now know what to do to be able to get to us?
[47:58.670 --> 48:01.070]  If I say we're on YouTube, bang, everybody knows how to get there.
[48:01.190 --> 48:01.990]  That's the issue.
[48:02.250 --> 48:10.410]  We need to make these other alternatives as easy to use and we could put links up on our page and all that kind of thing, but it has to be something that is also intuitive.
[48:10.710 --> 48:12.430]  Now, YouTube has an advantage.
[48:12.730 --> 48:14.830]  They've gotten a big foothold.
[48:15.170 --> 48:22.050]  Let's see if we can get that advantage moved to some other places as well so that we do have true alternatives.
[48:22.390 --> 48:22.630]  I
[48:38.470 --> 48:44.230]  know we absolutely understand what we're getting into, perhaps more so than a lot of folks.
[48:44.830 --> 48:46.490]  So, please, back off.
[48:47.130 --> 48:49.150]  Okay, well, I don't necessarily agree with that.
[48:49.290 --> 48:58.070]  I think people should come at us with all kinds of ideas and just don't expect us to have all the magic answers because we're only mortal humans.
[48:58.210 --> 49:00.750]  As Alex just demonstrated, he said he tried to answer the phone.
[49:00.850 --> 49:01.530]  I don't know what that means.
[49:01.750 --> 49:02.670]  Tried to answer.
[49:02.850 --> 49:04.070]  How do you...
[49:04.070 --> 49:04.650]  Okay.
[49:05.750 --> 49:09.750]  It was ringing and maybe drop the phone or something.
[49:10.050 --> 49:12.430]  We'll try again after 8 o'clock on YouTube.
[49:12.790 --> 49:14.290]  We'll see what happens then.
[49:15.210 --> 49:17.690]  Let's see what else is going on here.
[49:18.170 --> 49:19.370]  A couple of stories.
[49:19.790 --> 49:21.790]  Actually, Alex just texted me again.
[49:22.210 --> 49:24.790]  He missed an audio call.
[49:24.970 --> 49:25.950]  That's what he told me.
[49:26.150 --> 49:27.410]  Or that's what the message told me.
[49:27.910 --> 49:42.910]  We have all kinds of potential issues such as FEMA saying that there is compelling evidence to suggest that certain unpatched and unsecured emergency alert system devices are vulnerable.
[49:43.290 --> 49:57.810]  That's according to the chief engineer for integrated public alert and warning system, which is the national system that state and local officials use to send urgent alerts about natural disasters or child abductions, among other things.
[49:58.370 --> 50:09.270]  The agency last week urged operators of the devices to update their software to address the issue, saying that false alerts could in theory be used over TV, radio, and cable networks.
[50:09.450 --> 50:13.250]  The advisory did not say that alerts sent over text messages were affected.
[50:13.290 --> 50:17.370]  There is no evidence that malicious hackers have exploited the vulnerabilities.
[50:18.030 --> 50:22.630]  They say it's unclear how many emergency alert system devices are running the vulnerable software.
[50:23.410 --> 50:30.070]  FEMA referred a request for an estimate of that figure to the FCC, which had no idea what they were talking about apparently.
[50:30.550 --> 50:38.910]  So, yeah, that's something to be a little concerned about when EAS starts to become compromised.
[50:39.550 --> 50:47.810]  But it's not something that surprises us because it's all over the air, it's all controlled by various beeps and frequencies and things like that.
[50:48.930 --> 50:50.570]  EAS, wow, who knew?
[50:51.790 --> 50:58.070]  And Anonymous has jumped into the Taiwan issue, the cyber hacking group.
[50:58.070 --> 51:03.810]  Anonymous has hacked a Chinese Communist Party website and welcomed U.S.
[51:04.050 --> 51:05.810]  House Speaker Nancy Pelosi to Taiwan.
[51:06.850 --> 51:09.590]  Boy, they're really trying to start World War III, aren't they?
[51:10.030 --> 51:18.210]  According to reports, the website of the Heilongjiang Society Scientific Community Federation in China was hacked by Anonymous.
[51:18.670 --> 51:31.590]  After hacking the website, the group posted an HTML page with the text Taiwan Numbawon, the Taiwanese flag and emblem, and images of Pelosi and Taiwan President Tsai Yng-Wen.
[51:31.910 --> 51:34.650]  It also wrote, Taiwan welcomes U.S.
[51:34.770 --> 51:36.510]  House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.
[51:37.750 --> 51:45.850]  This comes amid Pelosi's one-day visit of the self-ruled island, which has been severely condemned by the Chinese government.
[51:46.170 --> 51:52.790]  According to reports, the hacked website showed the anonymous group logo followed by the Taiwan Numbawon meme.
[51:53.170 --> 52:06.010]  This was a reference to a statement made in 2015 by video game streamer Angry Pug to rile up Chinese streamer Emo during a match of the game H1Z1.
[52:06.650 --> 52:09.830]  Because this is how the wars will be fought, really, through video games.
[52:10.010 --> 52:16.850]  The website further showed the national flag and national emblem of Taiwan, followed by the welcoming note for Pelosi.
[52:17.090 --> 52:21.470]  However, the website was later taken down by the Chinese authorities.
[52:21.850 --> 52:24.950]  And who can say that we're surprised by that?
[52:25.530 --> 52:26.310]  All right.
[52:26.830 --> 52:29.270]  We are pretty much out of time.
[52:29.470 --> 52:32.330]  Please write to us, OTH at 2600.com.
[52:32.490 --> 52:35.390]  We are not on next week on WBAI.
[52:35.650 --> 52:38.650]  However, we are on in a few minutes on YouTube.
[52:38.930 --> 52:49.570]  Just follow the link on top of the 2600.com webpage or just go to youtube.com slash channel 2600 and join us at call us.
[52:49.690 --> 52:53.590]  You can share your ideas and thoughts and suggestions and things like that.
[52:54.410 --> 52:55.490]  We'd love to hear from you.
[52:55.690 --> 52:57.250]  And maybe Alex will join us.
[52:57.390 --> 52:57.570]  Good night.
[00:00.440 --> 00:01.560]  Well, welcome everybody.
[00:01.940 --> 00:05.020]  It's overtime here on our beloved YouTube.
[00:05.660 --> 00:06.480]  Welcome everybody.
[00:07.400 --> 00:08.520]  I made it, I think.
[00:08.680 --> 00:09.800]  Kyle, you made it as well?
[00:09.960 --> 00:10.300]  There you are.
[00:10.620 --> 00:12.400]  Oh yeah, I am a made person.
[00:13.380 --> 00:17.320]  And we have Rob over there and Gila on Skypland.
[00:18.020 --> 00:18.740]  We made it.
[00:18.980 --> 00:19.480]  Okay, good.
[00:19.680 --> 00:23.720]  I'm going to continue trying to get Alex because, you know what, we're not on the radio anymore.
[00:23.900 --> 00:24.980]  It doesn't matter if we sound like crap.
[00:24.980 --> 00:29.020]  Um, but, um, it's also a technical challenge.
[00:29.100 --> 00:29.960]  You know, he's on an airplane.
[00:30.220 --> 00:31.540]  Yeah, he's flying over the middle of the country.
[00:31.840 --> 00:32.860]  We should be able to talk to him.
[00:33.060 --> 00:33.640]  All right.
[00:34.160 --> 00:36.700]  That's just, um, my personal feeling here.
[00:36.700 --> 00:40.760]  Now, I'm, I'm trying to, uh, connect to him via signal, but here's the thing.
[00:40.860 --> 00:45.680]  I have signal on this, on this laptop in front of me, and it just announced that it's expired.
[00:46.540 --> 00:49.000]  Signal annoys me almost every day.
[00:49.000 --> 00:59.080]  They either, uh, keep wanting me to do things to prove I'm me, or, uh, uh, they just have these, um, uh, these ridiculous, uh, things you have to jump through.
[00:59.320 --> 01:02.740]  Okay, so, this version of Signal Desktop has expired.
[01:03.300 --> 01:05.960]  Please upgrade to the latest version to continue messaging.
[01:06.260 --> 01:07.680]  So I can't even message.
[01:07.800 --> 01:14.140]  If I type something, uh, basically, um, uh, I, I, I get an error message saying this version has expired.
[01:14.400 --> 01:16.000]  Please upgrade to continue messaging.
[01:16.000 --> 01:17.120]  So I can't even talk to him.
[01:17.120 --> 01:18.480]  So now I'm going to try to upgrade.
[01:20.160 --> 01:23.040]  Except it's not a question of just clicking on something.
[01:23.140 --> 01:26.400]  I have to go to a website and re-download it.
[01:26.540 --> 01:27.400]  So I'm going to try that.
[01:27.520 --> 01:29.800]  Hopefully that doesn't mess up our connection.
[01:30.840 --> 01:31.920]  I'm now downloading it.
[01:32.160 --> 01:32.920]  Isn't this exciting?
[01:33.080 --> 01:35.980]  Over-the-air software upgrades.
[01:37.640 --> 01:38.500]  Okay, it downloaded.
[01:38.680 --> 01:40.620]  Didn't tell me anything, so I guess I have to find it.
[01:41.580 --> 01:43.580]  All right, there it is in the folder.
[01:43.700 --> 01:46.040]  I will double-click on it now.
[01:47.740 --> 01:48.860]  He's double-clicking on it.
[01:49.000 --> 01:49.780]  Kyle's reading a book.
[01:51.780 --> 01:52.900]  Okay, it's installing.
[01:53.600 --> 01:54.640]  Signal is running.
[01:55.300 --> 01:56.600]  Click OK to close it.
[01:57.340 --> 01:57.740]  Okay.
[01:59.100 --> 01:59.880]  Sorry about that.
[01:59.980 --> 02:01.740]  I shouldn't have been running it while I tried to upgrade it.
[02:02.400 --> 02:04.740]  Again, this is just to try and make a call.
[02:05.940 --> 02:07.120]  What are you reading there, Kyle?
[02:07.900 --> 02:08.600]  The Jungle.
[02:09.080 --> 02:11.180]  That's an original copy you have there, isn't it?
[02:11.360 --> 02:13.380]  Yeah, I think it's a first or second edition.
[02:13.660 --> 02:14.040]  Wow.
[02:14.740 --> 02:16.500]  I just started it.
[02:17.240 --> 02:21.300]  My reading list got a little stale, so... Okay.
[02:21.540 --> 02:23.380]  Put some fresh meat on the pile.
[02:23.980 --> 02:24.920]  Wow, could it be this easy?
[02:25.000 --> 02:26.820]  I think Signal just started working.
[02:27.120 --> 02:27.540]  Okay, great.
[02:27.680 --> 02:28.120]  It works.
[02:28.940 --> 02:32.280]  So now I'm going to type a message to Alex.
[02:32.280 --> 02:32.880]  It just went through.
[02:33.220 --> 02:39.300]  And if he responds, I'll try calling him, and then we can maybe bring him up on this channel over here.
[02:39.420 --> 02:40.680]  That's how you solve problems.
[02:41.000 --> 02:41.580]  All right?
[02:42.900 --> 02:46.060]  What else is going on with you guys, Rob and Gila?
[02:46.800 --> 02:57.880]  Well, I was going to say that I did spend the break between the show and overtime looking for our Ouija board so that I could offer my continuous apologies to the ghost of Steve Jobs.
[03:00.720 --> 03:12.120]  Apparently, I have not apologized enough after having impugned the Apple Corporation, so I did want to apologize to Steve Jobs and just trying to get the tech together to make that happen.
[03:12.120 --> 03:14.160]  I think you must visit the ring.
[03:14.400 --> 03:15.720]  You must go to California.
[03:16.360 --> 03:19.560]  You must find your... you must go to the ring.
[03:20.220 --> 03:22.300]  Just prostrate myself in Cupertino.
[03:22.800 --> 03:31.260]  Make some kind of offering to it or place something, you know, near the address sign where it says no deliveries or something.
[03:31.340 --> 03:31.740]  I don't know.
[03:32.440 --> 03:37.320]  Yeah, I think I may need to take my CD collection and just offer it up and see what happens.
[03:37.320 --> 03:41.160]  And just place your CDs in a box and say, I own these, right?
[03:41.720 --> 03:44.220]  Or I want... can I own...
[03:45.080 --> 03:48.220]  If I give you these, can I get them on iTunes, please?
[03:48.980 --> 03:51.220]  Oh, for God's sake, I had a bit of a setback here.
[03:51.380 --> 03:57.920]  I tried to link... I tried to link my Signal to my mobile device, and now I've got to scan a QR code within the Signal app.
[03:57.980 --> 04:00.240]  So hang on, I've got to go into Settings now.
[04:00.240 --> 04:04.580]  Now, let's see, and then tap Link Devices.
[04:05.740 --> 04:07.700]  Okay, you know... oh, Conversation Settings.
[04:07.840 --> 04:09.160]  That's what you must mean, right?
[04:10.420 --> 04:14.480]  Yeah, you know, they tell you certain things exist in menus, and they don't actually exist.
[04:15.400 --> 04:16.660]  I'm in the Settings menu.
[04:16.660 --> 04:21.080]  I don't see Link Devices anywhere, so I can't do what they're telling me to do.
[04:21.080 --> 04:22.260]  It's not possible.
[04:23.740 --> 04:32.700]  If you'd like to contact us later in the show, the Overtime Show, our number is 1-888-321-HACK.
[04:34.800 --> 04:35.640]  Is that right?
[04:36.000 --> 04:36.360]  Is that right?
[04:36.660 --> 04:38.760]  Yes, I believe... oh, I was in the wrong menu.
[04:38.880 --> 04:40.120]  802-321-HACK.
[04:40.340 --> 04:40.700]  You know what?
[04:40.720 --> 04:44.820]  There's a different Settings menu when I'm in Alex's window, as opposed to when I'm in the window.
[04:45.280 --> 04:46.600]  Okay, Link Devices, here it is.
[04:47.420 --> 04:51.960]  And then, how do I... I'll link the Vice to my...
[04:52.940 --> 04:55.260]  I'm still wondering what we're talking to Alex about.
[04:55.440 --> 04:55.880]  I don't know.
[04:55.980 --> 04:57.020]  I mean, why are we obsessed?
[04:57.440 --> 04:58.300]  I mean, he...
[04:59.680 --> 05:01.140]  I just don't want to...
[05:01.140 --> 05:02.440]  Because he's our friend.
[05:03.820 --> 05:04.820]  Okay, all right.
[05:06.000 --> 05:11.680]  He's our pal, and Overtime is the Hangout, and we would like to hang out with our pal.
[05:12.200 --> 05:13.440]  Oh, okay, no, no.
[05:13.440 --> 05:16.620]  I mean, I'm not trying to take wind out of the sails or anything.
[05:17.200 --> 05:19.840]  By all means, I'm the guy with the spinnaker here.
[05:20.000 --> 05:21.080]  Let's go with it.
[05:21.620 --> 05:23.260]  Let's just sail away.
[05:24.720 --> 05:26.920]  Okay, I've linked the device successfully.
[05:27.080 --> 05:32.520]  It's been approved by Signal, and now I think I can actually talk to Alex on this device as well.
[05:32.680 --> 05:34.380]  Hang on a second, and...
[05:34.380 --> 05:34.880]  Yeah.
[05:36.840 --> 05:37.820]  But he has to answer.
[05:37.920 --> 05:38.940]  That's the other part of all this.
[05:39.480 --> 05:40.260]  We'll see if he does.
[05:40.780 --> 05:48.480]  Okay, you can call us, as Kyle said, 802-321-4225, 802-321-HACK is our telephone number.
[05:48.640 --> 05:49.700]  We want to talk to you, too.
[05:49.880 --> 05:52.480]  We don't just talk about talking to Alex.
[05:52.500 --> 05:56.700]  We want to talk to everyone, and you're welcome to call us and join the conversation.
[05:57.060 --> 05:58.180]  Give us suggestions.
[05:58.440 --> 05:59.300]  Tell us about stories.
[05:59.300 --> 06:11.280]  Please ask us questions, or make some other interesting point that we will say, aha, I see what you're saying.
[06:11.820 --> 06:19.040]  You can even reach us for free, for no tolls, if that matters to your particular telephonic situation.
[06:19.620 --> 06:30.020]  If you're within the United States, you can call us at 1-833-755-2600, and that is a toll-free version of our overtime phone number.
[06:30.200 --> 06:32.780]  Thanks to our pal Lucky for wrangling that.
[06:32.960 --> 06:44.200]  And if you want to take the opportunity to call us, again, 802-321-4225, 802-321-HACK, and share your wishes for a happy zero cool day.
[06:44.200 --> 06:45.040]  Is that a thing?
[06:45.660 --> 06:47.080]  Is that a thing we talk about?
[06:48.160 --> 06:49.120]  It is indeed.
[06:49.420 --> 06:51.000]  It is indeed zero cool day.
[06:54.300 --> 07:03.200]  Because on August 10th, 1988, the front page of the New York Times said that zero cool had crashed 1,507 systems in one day.
[07:03.560 --> 07:04.540]  Biggest crash in history.
[07:05.180 --> 07:07.500]  And, you know, hilarity ensued from there.
[07:09.380 --> 07:12.100]  Okay, I've got some stories here while we wait for phone calls to come in.
[07:12.100 --> 07:13.880]  This is in the balls department.
[07:15.560 --> 07:19.000]  Yeah, every so often somebody does something that requires a lot of balls.
[07:20.300 --> 07:26.000]  Yeah, in Mumbai, scamsters use the police commissioner's photo to hack phones.
[07:26.760 --> 07:28.220]  Yeah, they did that.
[07:32.120 --> 07:34.760]  Sadhanan Dat, I believe is the guy's name.
[07:36.260 --> 07:48.160]  Scamsters had used the photograph of the Mumbai police commissioner and cheated several people, but now they're using the picture of the Mirar Bayandar Vassai...
[07:48.160 --> 07:49.740]  Okay, when's it going to end?
[07:51.680 --> 07:55.640]  Virar, MBVV, police commissioner, Sadhanan Dat.
[07:56.060 --> 07:58.380]  Okay, still a different police commissioner.
[07:58.600 --> 08:06.860]  To target citizens in that area, the police said the accused is posing as CP Dat and offering gift vouchers at cheapest rates.
[08:08.020 --> 08:10.680]  So if you get a message like that, view it with skepticism.
[08:10.960 --> 08:22.260]  According to the police officials, hundreds of citizens from Mirar Road to Virar residents received WhatsApp messages from the name of CP Sadhanan Dat on Friday.
[08:22.500 --> 08:27.520]  The scamsters also used Dat's photo as their WhatsApp profile picture.
[08:27.800 --> 08:35.160]  When a police official also received the message, which he informed CP Dat who immediately alerted the citizens.
[08:35.340 --> 08:44.520]  The scamsters chat with the citizens and ask them to download a software which will end up hacking your mobile system, a police officer explained.
[08:45.500 --> 08:50.040]  And if you need a police officer to explain this kind of thing to you, you're definitely barking up the wrong tree.
[08:51.100 --> 08:53.600]  Yeah, so the police are in search of those accused.
[08:55.500 --> 08:57.140]  And that's what's going on over there.
[08:57.540 --> 08:59.540]  Sounds like fun for everybody.
[09:02.950 --> 09:04.640]  And what do we have here?
[09:04.840 --> 09:08.820]  Phoenix Highway Hacker Strikes Again.
[09:09.570 --> 09:10.320]  Oh, wow.
[09:10.420 --> 09:12.780]  This is anti-Putin messages.
[09:12.900 --> 09:19.740]  It was a second time in 24 hours an electronic roadside message board was hacked to display a profane message to motorists driving by.
[09:19.980 --> 09:25.260]  This time the message condemns Russian President Vladimir Putin who declared war on Ukraine this morning.
[09:26.760 --> 09:27.740]  Wait a minute.
[09:28.380 --> 09:29.620]  What the hell are you giving me?
[09:29.660 --> 09:30.560]  This is from February.
[09:30.560 --> 09:32.400]  This is a story from February.
[09:34.140 --> 09:35.220]  You know...
[09:35.220 --> 09:36.500]  You know what this is?
[09:36.580 --> 09:37.480]  This came...
[09:37.480 --> 09:38.060]  We have...
[09:38.060 --> 09:45.500]  We have a service called Google Alerts News Alerts and they send us...
[09:45.500 --> 09:49.880]  They send us stories with the word hacker or hack in it.
[09:51.140 --> 09:53.120]  And that's what...
[09:53.760 --> 09:54.540]  That's what this show is.
[09:54.540 --> 09:56.420]  It just keeps spelling us left and right today, doesn't it?
[09:56.480 --> 09:57.540]  Yeah, what's going on here?
[09:57.620 --> 09:58.140]  This is crazy.
[10:00.560 --> 10:05.820]  I think just driving around have been more prevalent than any other...
[10:05.820 --> 10:11.600]  I mean, there's been a lot of issues and global tumult and things like that in the world, but this...
[10:11.600 --> 10:12.000]  I agree.
[10:12.160 --> 10:13.440]  This is something that's been on...
[10:13.440 --> 10:29.920]  I've seen more tagging and just really like errant graffiti and statements places on this particular topic than a lot of other issues that you would think would seep into street art and just vandalism.
[10:30.060 --> 10:31.360]  Are you covering for Google?
[10:31.580 --> 10:32.720]  Because this is...
[10:32.720 --> 10:38.760]  Right here in front of us a huge bit of evidence of how they are screwing things up.
[10:38.880 --> 10:42.320]  They just sent this as a late-breaking story.
[10:42.420 --> 10:44.900]  In fact, they sent another story after that that I almost read as well.
[10:45.240 --> 10:49.440]  Russia state-owned news site TASS hacked with Putin makes us lie message.
[10:50.360 --> 10:52.800]  That was also from February.
[10:53.440 --> 10:55.180]  I don't understand what's going on here.
[10:55.340 --> 10:56.480]  I feel like we covered that.
[10:56.640 --> 10:57.260]  Yeah, we did.
[10:58.060 --> 11:01.040]  Google Alerts is sending out old stories as new stories.
[11:02.140 --> 11:08.540]  In fact, looking at a listing of some of the Google Alerts that we've gotten in recent days...
[11:08.540 --> 11:09.160]  Are you ready for this one?
[11:09.460 --> 11:12.500]  Trump asks Russia to hack Hillary's missing emails.
[11:14.200 --> 11:22.900]  Yeah, that just came across a couple of days ago and made it into the off-the-hook pile of stories to look into.
[11:23.060 --> 11:38.840]  And also, somehow, this I've noticed independently, the word hack is being used in a much more liberal way so that we're getting a whole lot more stories than we usually get, including this one here.
[11:39.420 --> 11:42.480]  Annoying jokes trigger father to hack son-in-law.
[11:44.020 --> 11:44.580]  Yeah.
[11:45.480 --> 11:51.500]  A 41-year-old farmer was injured after he was hacked by his father-in-law who was reportedly annoyed by his joke.
[11:51.500 --> 11:56.560]  Okay, obviously that's use of a word and a different connotation.
[11:56.900 --> 11:59.120]  He hacked him, I guess, with an axe or something like that.
[11:59.320 --> 12:00.840]  Don't really need those kind of stories, Google.
[12:00.940 --> 12:01.760]  That's not what I'm after.
[12:02.240 --> 12:03.020]  Here's another one.
[12:03.640 --> 12:07.000]  Mother reveals hack for keeping her paddling pool warm.
[12:07.840 --> 12:16.220]  Yeah, Dee Dee shared the paddling pool hack on her page demonstrating how she uses a lazy spa hot tub heater attached to a filter system to keep it warm.
[12:16.460 --> 12:17.260]  You know what?
[12:17.920 --> 12:20.220]  If you want more information on that, read the next 2600.
[12:20.220 --> 12:20.980]  We'll have an expose.
[12:21.300 --> 12:22.160]  How about this?
[12:23.200 --> 12:29.320]  Walking and one healthy eating hack helped her lose 25 pounds after binge eating struggle.
[12:29.800 --> 12:35.640]  TikTok star Shelby Sacco lost 25 pounds by walking and keeping 60 to 80% of her meals healthy.
[12:36.100 --> 12:40.480]  She does meal prepping and eats protein, veggies, oh boy, and one...
[12:40.480 --> 12:40.900]  You know what?
[12:40.900 --> 12:41.220]  That's enough.
[12:41.300 --> 12:41.600]  I'm done.
[12:42.100 --> 12:43.200]  What's going on here?
[12:43.360 --> 12:44.240]  It was a simple thing.
[12:44.520 --> 12:54.320]  Google sent us stories about hackers and hacking and now they're sending us old stories and things that have nothing to do with hacking just using the word in different ways.
[12:54.320 --> 12:55.960]  It's like they're trying to annoy us.
[12:56.740 --> 12:57.080]  Well, yeah.
[12:57.360 --> 13:03.920]  I mean, Google, YouTube, it's all interconnected, right?
[13:05.660 --> 13:09.180]  I think Google doesn't like you.
[13:09.580 --> 13:10.620]  Yeah, I'm getting that.
[13:10.960 --> 13:11.740]  I'm getting that.
[13:12.200 --> 13:18.600]  Also, are we getting articles about like the movie Hacksaw Ridge or...
[13:19.080 --> 13:20.080]  I mean, I just...
[13:20.080 --> 13:31.620]  I actually kind of wanted to hear what the tip was for keeping your paddling pool warm because I was afraid it involved well, organic methods and I'm glad to hear that it doesn't.
[13:32.400 --> 13:34.520]  Well, you know, just checking.
[13:34.780 --> 13:35.180]  I don't know.
[13:35.900 --> 13:41.060]  Maybe this is a may contain hackers problem with Google.
[13:42.280 --> 13:42.700]  Maybe.
[13:43.000 --> 13:46.720]  It's expanded the search in your service there.
[13:46.880 --> 13:49.480]  It almost certainly does not contain hackers.
[13:50.880 --> 13:52.920]  These stories are a complete waste of time.
[13:53.400 --> 13:54.920]  Hey, have we gotten any phone calls?
[13:55.000 --> 13:55.880]  I know I've been talking a lot.
[13:56.540 --> 13:57.940]  802-321-4225.
[13:58.840 --> 14:00.980]  Yeah, aside from me getting the number wrong.
[14:01.660 --> 14:02.520]  Oh, you gave out the wrong number?
[14:02.580 --> 14:03.240]  What number did you give out?
[14:03.500 --> 14:12.160]  Well, I thought 8888, but it's the 833-321 hack, as Rob corrected so rightly earlier.
[14:12.620 --> 14:14.480]  But we're accepting calls.
[14:14.620 --> 14:15.440]  We're taking calls.
[14:15.580 --> 14:17.020]  Is there something wrong with our YouTube channel?
[14:17.060 --> 14:18.400]  Because the numbers are way down.
[14:18.520 --> 14:19.080]  I don't know why.
[14:19.240 --> 14:22.000]  Maybe because we weren't on last week, or is something technically wrong?
[14:22.140 --> 14:23.780]  Rob, can you confirm that we are on?
[14:24.420 --> 14:25.520]  We are on.
[14:25.600 --> 14:29.380]  I think the volume may be a little low, but we are on.
[14:29.380 --> 14:30.160]  We are hearable.
[14:30.460 --> 14:31.180]  We are understandable.
[14:32.160 --> 14:33.420]  Okay, let's fix the volume, Kyle.
[14:34.480 --> 14:35.220]  Every week.
[14:37.540 --> 14:39.460]  You guys can talk while we're fixing the volume.
[14:40.200 --> 14:42.540]  Well, we could, but watching is fascinating.
[14:42.780 --> 14:44.700]  Yeah, I'm sorry that we can't see the volume.
[14:45.040 --> 14:46.460]  We can't adjust the volume.
[14:46.460 --> 14:47.340]  There is no volume.
[14:48.540 --> 14:59.040]  But in any case, there was a tweet that went by this morning that I've been thinking about a lot where somebody was saying that because they made a funny face while setting the face ID on their iPhone.
[14:59.320 --> 15:03.880]  This is another Apple thing, so maybe you can contribute to this, Gila, with your experience.
[15:04.040 --> 15:13.360]  But somebody was saying they made a funny face while setting the face ID on their iPhone, which meant that they can't unlock their phone now without making the same funny face again.
[15:14.040 --> 15:21.820]  And I was wondering if this might be a valid defense against having somebody use your face without your consent to unlock your phone.
[15:21.980 --> 15:27.080]  Like, if you were making some kind of ridiculous, stupid face, they can't force you to make that face.
[15:27.200 --> 15:28.360]  They cannot force you to make that face.
[15:28.520 --> 15:34.740]  It's also interesting, I think, experimenting with the parameters of how face ID works.
[15:35.200 --> 15:48.100]  As an example, if I'm going to work in the morning and need to unlock my phone to get at something, but I'm wearing a mask and sunglasses, sometimes face ID can unlock it, sometimes it can't.
[15:48.220 --> 15:55.360]  And one thing I'm very much looking forward to is trying to see if my mom's face can unlock my face ID.
[15:56.080 --> 15:57.220]  because we look so similar.
[15:58.600 --> 16:04.740]  Well, that would definitely start some family discussions around the table.
[16:05.520 --> 16:10.640]  You know, face ID, we also sound very similar, so we've often wondered if we could trick some of those voice ID systems.
[16:10.820 --> 16:13.900]  You know what I think would be a good idea, and this would serve several purposes.
[16:15.860 --> 16:23.300]  Like, sort of a DNA type of reading, you spit on your phone, okay, and it recognizes the content, and you get some aggression out, too.
[16:23.340 --> 16:28.520]  Of course, it's kind of disgusting, but maybe there's an app to, like, you know, make sure it's clean.
[16:29.080 --> 16:30.940]  Do you have to spit, or can you just lick it?
[16:32.440 --> 16:34.900]  Yeah, it degrades from there, that's for sure.
[16:36.440 --> 16:39.860]  Okay, so I was about to try something with the phone, Kyle.
[16:40.020 --> 16:42.940]  Do we have a call, or that was just an errant ring?
[16:43.500 --> 16:43.860]  Okay,
[16:54.240 --> 16:55.040]  access your microphone.
[16:55.400 --> 16:57.060]  Okay, that sounds reasonable.
[16:57.460 --> 17:00.340]  I'm allowing access, and now we're calling Alex.
[17:00.980 --> 17:01.580]  Start call.
[17:02.900 --> 17:04.040]  Oh, isn't that pleasant?
[17:04.770 --> 17:08.290]  So, we might hear Alex put an end to this.
[17:08.840 --> 17:10.210]  Boy, it's annoying now.
[17:12.840 --> 17:16.380]  Can you imagine the whole plane is hearing this?
[17:22.130 --> 17:25.530]  I'll just turn it down and we'll see if he ever answers.
[17:25.710 --> 17:27.190]  I don't know, I think it's kind of a jam.
[17:27.770 --> 17:28.610]  Do you think it times out?
[17:28.710 --> 17:29.530]  It must time out, right?
[17:29.610 --> 17:30.810]  Like regular phone calls do.
[17:31.230 --> 17:31.770]  Oh, it did.
[17:32.550 --> 17:35.070]  Okay, well, he's not picking up.
[17:36.010 --> 17:38.530]  Okay, again, our phone number 802-321-4225.
[17:38.990 --> 17:44.130]  If you're out there, we're having trouble with communications tonight, it's one of those shows.
[17:45.670 --> 17:47.690]  Did you go to the meeting last week?
[17:48.970 --> 17:50.210]  I did, I did.
[17:50.290 --> 17:51.950]  It was a fun gathering.
[17:53.210 --> 17:58.270]  I had some very good pizza and, yeah, caught up with some people that I hadn't seen in a while.
[17:58.310 --> 17:59.990]  I almost went, but then I didn't.
[18:01.190 --> 18:02.390]  See, that's the problem.
[18:02.510 --> 18:07.170]  Almost going was a good start, but then you didn't and that spoiled the whole thing.
[18:07.250 --> 18:09.430]  It did, it did, but what are you going to do?
[18:09.510 --> 18:10.410]  That's how it goes sometimes.
[18:11.430 --> 18:12.250]  It certainly is.
[18:12.390 --> 18:13.430]  It certainly is.
[18:14.310 --> 18:16.910]  You know, it's a quality gathering, happens once a month.
[18:17.510 --> 18:24.310]  We have not been having any significant interest shown in our virtual meetings for a long time now.
[18:24.450 --> 18:32.030]  There's only one or two people who show up and so that's kind of, I think, taking the joy out of that.
[18:32.030 --> 18:40.070]  so we might not keep hosting those virtual meetings if no one's going to use them, but the physical meetings are back in full effect.
[18:41.490 --> 18:54.110]  People were, you know, respecting the, in general, people's mask preferences, distancing preferences, whatever, and it was a lot of fun.
[18:54.550 --> 19:00.010]  And I got to ask a bunch of people about their hope experiences having not had any of my own.
[19:00.010 --> 19:03.610]  So, you know, it was a way to start catching up before you put the videos up.
[19:04.170 --> 19:05.230]  I had a dream.
[19:05.430 --> 19:07.610]  I was in the Hotel Pennsylvania last night.
[19:07.770 --> 19:08.790]  I just remembered this.
[19:08.930 --> 19:14.770]  I had a dream and I was, it was weird because it was half torn down and the half that wasn't torn down was very busy.
[19:14.990 --> 19:16.910]  A lot of people doing all kinds of things.
[19:17.010 --> 19:26.610]  Offices were open, but then you could see like just past where the offices were, it's a sheer drop into just this pit where they were tearing it down and doing God knows what.
[19:27.270 --> 19:28.170]  You know, I haven't been there.
[19:28.270 --> 19:30.630]  I haven't seen exactly what it looks like right now.
[19:31.030 --> 19:44.870]  It's going to be depressing when I do go over there, but yeah, I mean, that place will always hold a space in my heart and so many other people that were a part of hope conferences in the past and so many other things over the century it was up.
[19:46.870 --> 19:47.590]  It does.
[19:47.630 --> 19:49.170]  It holds a spot in my heart.
[19:49.330 --> 20:02.130]  I'm going to I don't know what stage of the demolition they're at right now, but I think when it's feasible, I want to see if I can ask someone to maybe someone who's working on it to maybe pass me a brick or something as a memento.
[20:02.610 --> 20:07.250]  I thought they heaved through a window of one of the people tearing it down.
[20:07.490 --> 20:08.330]  We have a phone call.
[20:08.530 --> 20:09.270]  We do have a phone call.
[20:09.350 --> 20:12.210]  Okay, let's figure out how to do that again.
[20:12.350 --> 20:13.230]  That's been such a long time.
[20:14.570 --> 20:15.170]  Good evening.
[20:15.350 --> 20:16.170]  You're on Off Talk Overtime.
[20:16.250 --> 20:16.490]  Go ahead.
[20:17.910 --> 20:18.950]  Good evening, Emmanuel.
[20:19.730 --> 20:20.350]  Hi, gang.
[20:20.870 --> 20:21.290]  Hey, what's up?
[20:21.330 --> 20:24.030]  Right now, I'd say that your YouTube levels are fine, by the way.
[20:24.230 --> 20:24.670]  Thank you.
[20:24.830 --> 20:25.450]  It's good to hear that.
[20:25.470 --> 20:32.290]  And I wanted to say that I have already purchased my Hope stick, so I'm on one of the lists.
[20:32.390 --> 20:33.710]  This is Tim in Connecticut, by the way.
[20:33.770 --> 20:33.970]  Cool.
[20:34.070 --> 20:34.530]  Hope stick.
[20:34.670 --> 20:35.670]  That's a good thing to call it.
[20:35.750 --> 20:38.070]  We're talking about the flash drive that has all the talks on it.
[20:38.210 --> 20:41.390]  And for the first time, it's a 256-gig stick.
[20:41.670 --> 20:42.910]  The biggest one we've ever had.
[20:43.150 --> 20:51.850]  It's impossible to see all the talks, so all the ones that I had to give up to go to another one, I want on that stick.
[20:51.970 --> 20:52.750]  Yeah, yeah.
[20:53.010 --> 20:57.230]  And not only that, you'll get audio as well, in case you're driving and you just want to hear the audio.
[20:57.550 --> 20:57.950]  Exactly.
[20:58.310 --> 20:59.530]  So what do you think of the conference?
[20:59.750 --> 21:10.730]  Honestly, if anybody has checked the pricing, I honestly think that that's pretty good, especially if you price out how much a 256-gig flash drive is.
[21:10.870 --> 21:12.090]  Yeah, because you get that in the end.
[21:12.170 --> 21:15.550]  If you copy all the files off of it, then you have a 256-gig flash drive.
[21:15.670 --> 21:16.290]  You can do anything wrong.
[21:16.290 --> 21:21.110]  Plus all the work that was done, and the recording, and my God, the labor alone.
[21:21.270 --> 21:24.690]  Oh, the last week alone was insane.
[21:24.830 --> 21:30.870]  Kyle and I were just up all night, almost every day, dealing with all kinds of monotonous tasks, getting it done right.
[21:30.870 --> 21:33.510]  We're both joining unions, actually several unions each.
[21:34.150 --> 21:34.410]  We should.
[21:35.710 --> 21:37.310]  So tell me, what did you think of the conference?
[21:39.010 --> 21:40.930]  Oh, well, you know, I liked it.
[21:41.570 --> 21:43.150]  You know, the campus was great.
[21:43.410 --> 21:53.410]  Like I said, the last time I called in, I asked if St. John's had any downs, any problems with us.
[21:54.770 --> 21:56.990]  Yeah, everything I've heard, they were thrilled.
[21:57.270 --> 22:00.630]  They said, the security people said we were the best tenants they ever had.
[22:00.630 --> 22:03.430]  I'm not sure how true that was, but it was nice to hear.
[22:04.730 --> 22:07.430]  But that's, you wouldn't expect that from us.
[22:08.950 --> 22:12.370]  Well, I mean, you know, we can behave.
[22:12.570 --> 22:14.370]  Yeah, hotels bring out the worst in people, I think.
[22:14.790 --> 22:19.670]  Yeah, and their security, they might not have been so complimentary, although we had a decent rapport with them over the years.
[22:19.670 --> 22:20.170]  They were awesome.
[22:20.350 --> 22:22.510]  They were so cool and nice.
[22:22.830 --> 22:24.910]  And it was just a pleasure having them around.
[22:25.050 --> 22:25.670]  It really was.
[22:25.810 --> 22:27.830]  I don't say that often of security people.
[22:28.010 --> 22:38.630]  And we made a really good effort and reiterated it over and over again, reminding ourselves at least, but as our volunteers to just, let's make a good impression.
[22:38.750 --> 22:51.430]  Let's make this a fun event, one that we can be proud of and learn from and, you know, take away what works for maybe coming back and hopefully we're invited back.
[22:52.030 --> 22:55.430]  And I think that we went along, we made a couple good steps toward that.
[22:55.730 --> 22:55.890]  Yeah.
[22:56.150 --> 23:09.050]  And, you know, a lot of credit goes to our attendees just for being themselves, being the cool people they are, dealing with all the challenges and issues that are inevitable in situations like this and making sure that there is no negativity.
[23:09.230 --> 23:24.810]  There certainly were, you know, avenues where we could have become negative and every time something like that happened, people, you know, logic stepped in or just common sense and we were able to make things work out really well, I think.
[23:26.030 --> 23:31.790]  You know, as far as using the word hack, I think that's being used for almost anything.
[23:32.290 --> 23:39.090]  You know, oh, I opened up my soda can by putting it on the corner of the counter and slammed it down.
[23:39.270 --> 23:40.350]  There's my soda hack.
[23:40.510 --> 23:44.290]  But somebody changed something at Google.
[23:44.390 --> 23:48.510]  Where they just use that now for any food tip or gardening hint.
[23:48.750 --> 23:50.250]  Now they're all called hacks.
[23:50.450 --> 24:00.770]  And we just get deluged now with all this garbage that has nothing to do with computer hacking that we have to eliminate to get to the stories that actually do and the ones that aren't years old.
[24:01.330 --> 24:05.570]  It's like diluted the meaning because of like a genre of clickbait or something.
[24:05.750 --> 24:06.330]  That's what it is.
[24:06.430 --> 24:06.770]  Clickbait.
[24:06.930 --> 24:07.230]  Absolutely.
[24:07.730 --> 24:22.470]  I don't know much about Google in a couple of my news aggregators I've had old headlines pop up because somebody some reporter or somebody else corrected a spelling Really?
[24:22.610 --> 24:23.290]  Is that what it caused?
[24:23.370 --> 24:24.190]  And it became a new article?
[24:24.410 --> 24:25.110]  Oh, my God.
[24:25.710 --> 24:26.570]  That's so terrible.
[24:27.690 --> 24:28.450]  That's really terrible.
[24:28.530 --> 24:28.970]  I've seen that pop up.
[24:28.970 --> 24:30.250]  Look, I'm old school.
[24:30.390 --> 24:35.710]  Because I occasionally find something and I want to send it on to a colleague, and the last thing you want to do is go, oh, yeah, this happened five months ago.
[24:36.170 --> 24:37.890]  Yeah, but how often does that happen?
[24:38.010 --> 24:43.130]  There are news stories that don't even have dates on them, or they're really tiny or hidden in a weird place.
[24:43.430 --> 24:48.390]  You know, what I believe, I'm old school on this, if an article is written, it's written.
[24:48.390 --> 24:51.190]  You can't go back and correct something.
[24:51.390 --> 24:56.870]  Yeah, you can post an addendum later, you can say things like that, but you can't go back and change the wording, change the facts.
[24:57.270 --> 24:59.010]  No, when it's published, it's published.
[24:59.190 --> 25:02.570]  And that's something that I think very few people have an understanding of these days.
[25:02.870 --> 25:07.790]  You know, this Twitter world where you basically, okay, I didn't say that because I was controversial, so I'm going to say this instead.
[25:09.810 --> 25:10.770]  It's not right.
[25:10.950 --> 25:16.250]  Yeah, especially with something that is a published, edited, complete work.
[25:17.590 --> 25:26.650]  Just because we can do it because of the distribution or some, you know, unique change in the way we're consuming the media doesn't mean you should.
[25:27.290 --> 25:29.010]  It's unethical, I think, in a lot of ways.
[25:29.010 --> 25:30.950]  In a printed magazine like we have, you can't do it.
[25:31.430 --> 25:32.310]  It's impossible.
[25:32.470 --> 25:32.750]  It's impossible.
[25:33.030 --> 25:39.850]  But you should treat other publications, electronic ones, the same way because the mentality behind it should be the same.
[25:40.150 --> 25:41.810]  That when this is printed, when this story is done...
[25:41.810 --> 25:43.150]  Well, nowadays you can delete your tweet.
[25:43.270 --> 25:43.650]  Yeah.
[25:43.750 --> 25:44.550]  And you never said it.
[25:44.550 --> 25:52.150]  You know, if I say something stupid on Twitter, then it should live on, you know, as proof that I'm an idiot or that I once was an idiot.
[25:52.430 --> 25:54.010]  Or human, yes, exactly.
[25:54.250 --> 25:56.430]  And, you know, it's all this refining...
[25:56.430 --> 25:57.050]  It's Orwellian.
[25:57.230 --> 25:58.170]  It is exactly.
[25:58.470 --> 26:00.710]  The memory hole is what we were warned about.
[26:00.850 --> 26:01.750]  This is what we're living in.
[26:05.140 --> 26:11.600]  Other things that I hate is when you get a news article and they neglect to say what state it is in.
[26:11.780 --> 26:12.500]  Oh, God.
[26:12.500 --> 26:13.880]  You can't use a city name twice.
[26:13.880 --> 26:16.080]  Yeah, this happened in Springfield.
[26:16.700 --> 26:18.660]  Every damn state has a Springfield.
[26:19.180 --> 26:19.260]  Yeah.
[26:20.040 --> 26:27.540]  Well, they make reference to things like, you know, the bull in the middle of the street or something, a statue, and you're supposed to know what that is.
[26:27.580 --> 26:28.700]  Yeah, down by Joe's Barbershop.
[26:28.760 --> 26:29.300]  Oh, my God.
[26:29.300 --> 26:29.660]  We miss it.
[26:30.080 --> 26:31.060]  Yeah, it's terrible.
[26:31.280 --> 26:32.100]  It's absolutely awful.
[26:33.320 --> 26:40.180]  But, you know, it's inevitable, too, because we're reading all these papers from all around the country that we never would read before.
[26:40.180 --> 26:42.940]  We'd read all local papers, and they haven't adjusted.
[26:43.060 --> 26:46.540]  They haven't adjusted to an audience beyond their local audience.
[26:46.680 --> 26:48.120]  And the other thing that's crazy...
[26:48.120 --> 26:49.740]  Right, because they think that that's what they serve.
[26:49.860 --> 26:59.820]  You know, and if you use an aggregator like Google News, it used to be useful where you could click on something and read a story, but now you click on something, pay me for the right to read the story.
[27:00.060 --> 27:08.960]  You know, if you subscribe to a thousand different newspapers, you're still going to get hit with that because every single newspaper wants you to pay for the access.
[27:09.440 --> 27:11.360]  And that's just not logical.
[27:11.880 --> 27:13.120]  You shouldn't have to do that.
[27:13.180 --> 27:22.760]  Well, I find that when I hit a paywall, I can normally Google the text, and using Google as the verb, Google the text and find it from a different source.
[27:23.080 --> 27:26.620]  Yes, because oftentimes it's just an AP feed or something like that.
[27:27.240 --> 27:30.100]  But it's not an efficient way of doing things.
[27:30.220 --> 27:31.220]  It's not the way it's...
[27:31.220 --> 27:31.420]  No.
[27:31.960 --> 27:36.080]  You know, if something is online, it should be just available to read.
[27:36.220 --> 27:40.300]  If it's in an aggregator, that should mean that you can click on it and read it.
[27:40.420 --> 27:43.140]  And if there's going to be a paywall, it shouldn't be in the aggregator.
[27:43.320 --> 27:46.420]  Or it should be in a different aggregator that requires you to pay for use of that.
[27:47.760 --> 27:48.920]  It's one of my buttons.
[27:50.220 --> 27:52.100]  Yeah, of course, because any aggregator...
[27:52.100 --> 27:56.180]  If it goes to the point where that gets popular, everybody wants to get paid.
[27:57.020 --> 27:58.580]  Yeah, I'm not saying they shouldn't get paid.
[27:58.640 --> 28:00.000]  It's just this is not the way to do it.
[28:00.340 --> 28:00.860]  You know?
[28:01.040 --> 28:01.320]  Right.
[28:02.260 --> 28:03.140]  Maybe there's...
[28:03.140 --> 28:07.780]  But if you find out that, oh, other people are getting paid for what they do, well...
[28:07.780 --> 28:18.780]  But maybe there's a solution where you pay a certain fee to some entity someplace and you get access to all these newspapers or all the newspapers in this particular state or something.
[28:18.780 --> 28:21.320]  Well, that used to be just, you know, all you had to do was pay for your internet connection.
[28:21.500 --> 28:21.720]  Mm-hmm.
[28:22.160 --> 28:23.940]  Yeah, that used to be enough.
[28:25.180 --> 28:26.300]  Any other thoughts?
[28:27.660 --> 28:28.420]  No, no, no.
[28:28.500 --> 28:32.160]  I just wanted to check in, everybody else chime in.
[28:32.400 --> 28:32.960]  Well, thanks for calling.
[28:33.080 --> 28:33.720]  Thanks for attending.
[28:33.920 --> 28:34.820]  And thanks for the support.
[28:35.820 --> 28:36.800]  Have a great night, guys.
[28:36.940 --> 28:37.200]  Take care.
[28:37.820 --> 28:38.220]  Bye-bye.
[28:38.400 --> 28:38.520]  Bye.
[28:39.720 --> 28:40.240]  All right.
[28:40.420 --> 28:40.840]  Nice call.
[28:41.440 --> 28:41.840]  Very nice.
[28:41.940 --> 28:44.920]  Always good to hear from attendees that got something out of it.
[28:44.920 --> 28:50.600]  And, you know, we're getting a lot of feedback, a lot of people with suggestions and ideas and critiques.
[28:50.740 --> 28:52.340]  Yes, we definitely want to hear critiques as well.
[28:54.060 --> 29:01.200]  Well, some of the main critiques were it's too hot outside and we hear that, but there's not much we could have done about that.
[29:01.920 --> 29:05.100]  Another is the location is different.
[29:06.000 --> 29:14.940]  Actually, I think more people liked that than didn't like that, but the people who didn't like that weren't familiar enough with the area to know where to go to get food and things like that.
[29:15.060 --> 29:19.240]  And that's something we can do more for, you know, if we do it again at that location.
[29:19.540 --> 29:20.520]  We're not familiar enough.
[29:20.660 --> 29:21.560]  We're still learning.
[29:21.860 --> 29:23.900]  I mean, we were finding places every day.
[29:24.780 --> 29:26.540]  It's, you know, it's a challenge.
[29:26.640 --> 29:28.380]  And we knew it was going to be a challenge the first time.
[29:28.800 --> 29:29.500]  We have another call?
[29:29.660 --> 29:30.560]  Okay, let's take this one.
[29:30.580 --> 29:30.880]  Good evening.
[29:31.280 --> 29:32.080]  You're on Off the Gover Talk.
[29:32.940 --> 29:33.520]  Yeah, hi.
[29:33.640 --> 29:34.020]  Good evening.
[29:34.480 --> 29:36.080]  I heard your comments earlier.
[29:36.120 --> 29:39.760]  You were saying that the videos of all the talks had been uploaded.
[29:40.320 --> 29:42.280]  So I just had a quick follow-up.
[29:42.280 --> 29:45.420]  I presume that that does not include any of the workshops.
[29:45.420 --> 29:46.240]  Is that right?
[29:46.400 --> 29:48.120]  I don't believe workshops were recorded.
[29:49.100 --> 29:49.620]  Okay.
[29:49.820 --> 29:51.160]  Yeah, that's a bummer.
[29:51.300 --> 29:56.980]  Because I had a personal emergency during the conference.
[29:57.080 --> 30:01.380]  And I was unable to actually physically attend any of the workshops.
[30:01.380 --> 30:02.860]  So I missed all of that.
[30:02.960 --> 30:03.800]  I'm sorry to hear that.
[30:04.480 --> 30:05.200]  Yeah, yeah.
[30:05.200 --> 30:06.140]  I'm sorry, too.
[30:06.140 --> 30:08.640]  And I checked your wiki page.
[30:08.660 --> 30:12.960]  And I don't see links to any presentations from any of the workshops.
[30:13.400 --> 30:18.780]  All I see is a message that they would be posted at some point.
[30:18.940 --> 30:26.540]  But as of now, I just, I see no links to any, like, PDFs or PowerPoint presentations.
[30:26.800 --> 30:31.340]  Do you know if any of the workshop presenters were going to put up something at some point?
[30:31.940 --> 30:44.360]  If there is a specific talk that had slides in particular that you may have missed and they do post them, the wiki is the first place, I think, that you would find them.
[30:45.100 --> 30:48.620]  But definitely feedback that address.
[30:48.620 --> 31:01.460]  If you're inquiring about a specific talk or workshop in this case, they can maybe get back to you and find out exactly what materials may or may not be around from that talk.
[31:01.620 --> 31:07.740]  But as you can imagine, you know, there were three tracks going at once plus unscheduled stuff going on.
[31:07.860 --> 31:13.560]  So a lot of activity made it hard to, at the time, get stuff directly from people after their talk.
[31:13.700 --> 31:16.800]  Feedback at hope.net is the email address right to that.
[31:16.960 --> 31:19.940]  And it'll get to the people that ran the workshops.
[31:20.040 --> 31:24.000]  And if there is anything that you can be connected to, they will do that.
[31:24.060 --> 31:25.040]  I guarantee that.
[31:25.160 --> 31:38.780]  And it may be that someone at the workshop independently asked permission and made some kind of recording, maybe of a specific how-to or a part of it that was more hands-on that may have been covered informally.
[31:38.940 --> 31:39.040]  Yeah.
[31:39.120 --> 31:40.540]  But we only have so many cameras.
[31:41.460 --> 31:42.460]  Oh, I understand.
[31:43.380 --> 31:46.260]  Feedback at hope.net, you said that's where I should contact.
[31:46.700 --> 31:48.440]  Yeah, just ask about that, explain the situation.
[31:48.660 --> 31:49.820]  Rob, I think you had something to add?
[31:50.380 --> 31:58.300]  Yeah, I think another good idea might be to, if you're looking at the workshops page, see the names of the individuals who were giving the workshops you wanted.
[31:58.600 --> 32:18.460]  And a lot of times, what you can do is find that person's social media with a little searching or other ways to contact them and maybe ask them if they're giving their workshop somewhere else or if they have their own YouTube channel or something like that where they talk about the subject or if they've put their presentations up anywhere because a lot of people do this on their own.
[32:18.600 --> 32:23.560]  A couple of workshops were virtual, too, so that tells me that maybe there already is something available.
[32:24.780 --> 32:26.760]  Okay, I'll investigate that.
[32:26.880 --> 32:27.920]  Well, thanks for the advice.
[32:28.120 --> 32:28.220]  Sure.
[32:28.260 --> 32:29.720]  And I would just suggest...
[32:29.720 --> 32:31.000]  I mean, the conference is great.
[32:31.340 --> 32:39.920]  Maybe before the next one, if you could maybe broadcast on your show, just encourage people to...
[32:39.920 --> 32:53.780]  If the presenter doesn't object, encourage people to record the thing or post their presentation online because, as you said, everybody's resources are limited and not everybody can be at every talk.
[32:53.780 --> 32:58.720]  You know, we can only be in one place at one time, obviously, or logged into one screen.
[32:58.960 --> 33:14.380]  So, you know, if you could try to foster before the next conference, just encourage attendees to do that for the benefit of their fellow attendees that can get to something so that, you know, they can hopefully get some of that information.
[33:14.380 --> 33:16.380]  Yeah, that's a great idea, great suggestion.
[33:16.400 --> 33:21.280]  And, you know, in 2020, it was all virtual, so everything was recorded, including workshops.
[33:21.280 --> 33:27.440]  But we were just so caught up in making the, you know, the first in-person conference in a while.
[33:28.020 --> 33:30.280]  This is something I think we could have done better with.
[33:30.380 --> 33:32.600]  And hopefully there is an answer or two.
[33:33.120 --> 33:33.320]  Yeah.
[33:33.540 --> 33:51.280]  And I think a larger request, I think, that we're taking away is that if we do this again in so many years and put it together with more attendees, possibly in the future, it's going to take more volunteers.
[33:51.280 --> 33:52.240]  We need more help.
[33:52.440 --> 33:52.640]  Yeah.
[33:52.700 --> 33:55.160]  We need people on site that have expertise.
[33:55.420 --> 34:08.420]  We need more people to fill in roles to be able to be there in advance, especially in advance of the event, if you can't be on site or vice versa.
[34:08.420 --> 34:13.820]  If you can't help in advance, we definitely need people on site because that's how this stuff happens.
[34:13.920 --> 34:16.120]  That's how it gets put together, formally or informally.
[34:16.120 --> 34:21.080]  We had a lot of challenges, as we've said over and over again.
[34:21.540 --> 34:22.800]  We create the space.
[34:22.940 --> 34:23.940]  We get it in there.
[34:24.040 --> 34:26.900]  We get as much of what it takes to capture.
[34:28.480 --> 34:31.320]  But beyond that, this is powered by the community.
[34:31.520 --> 34:38.300]  And very much, you know, your critiques, all of the critiques out there are our own, of course.
[34:39.100 --> 34:42.180]  We feel and understand where people are coming from.
[34:42.180 --> 34:53.360]  And our failings, I think, are a litmus for the overall health of what people are capable of in this moment in history and for what all has been going on.
[34:53.840 --> 34:56.920]  And, you know, to us, it's neither good nor bad.
[34:57.020 --> 34:58.800]  It just, it is how it occurred.
[34:58.840 --> 35:03.200]  And we did our best to make sure that it was preserved.
[35:03.200 --> 35:08.940]  And so we hope what we got is at least enough to carry us on to the next one.
[35:09.020 --> 35:14.040]  And we have so many good people helping us this time to make things possible that otherwise would have been completely impossible.
[35:14.280 --> 35:18.540]  So everything that succeeded was a result of a volunteer somewhere.
[35:18.940 --> 35:19.880]  Please, everyone...
[35:19.880 --> 35:20.800]  That was the only week...
[35:20.800 --> 35:22.160]  Yeah, that was the only...
[35:22.160 --> 35:24.580]  My only critique was about the workshops.
[35:24.840 --> 35:27.000]  I mean, about it not being able to be recorded.
[35:27.200 --> 35:35.280]  But hopefully, like you said, in the future, you'll have more resources or more people willing to volunteer to fill that gap or something.
[35:35.420 --> 35:35.760]  Absolutely.
[35:35.940 --> 35:36.180]  Absolutely.
[35:36.360 --> 35:39.220]  And there might be some available, you know, for this year as well.
[35:39.700 --> 35:39.940]  Yeah.
[35:40.100 --> 35:40.280]  Right.
[35:40.280 --> 35:41.680]  And the campus was great.
[35:41.900 --> 35:45.860]  I grew up in Queens, but I'd never been on the campus of St. John's.
[35:45.860 --> 35:46.460]  Same here.
[35:46.740 --> 35:46.880]  But really nice campus.
[35:46.880 --> 35:48.280]  I grew up in Queens, too.
[35:48.360 --> 35:49.640]  I didn't know about St. John's.
[35:49.700 --> 35:50.200]  How about that?
[35:50.820 --> 35:52.460]  Yeah, really nice campus.
[35:52.780 --> 35:57.380]  And there are other nice college campuses in New York as well, of course.
[35:57.560 --> 36:02.600]  So hopefully, if St. John's isn't available, you'd be able to go to another one.
[36:02.720 --> 36:06.280]  But if they'll welcome you back, that would be great to go back there again.
[36:06.280 --> 36:07.040]  All right.
[36:07.200 --> 36:08.280]  Well, we certainly would like to.
[36:08.580 --> 36:10.100]  It seemed like a very positive place.
[36:10.220 --> 36:11.580]  But thanks so much for your thoughts.
[36:11.760 --> 36:11.840]  Thank you.
[36:12.260 --> 36:12.620]  Take care.
[36:12.680 --> 36:13.200]  Have a good one.
[36:13.300 --> 36:13.660]  Take care.
[36:13.820 --> 36:13.960]  Bye.
[36:14.800 --> 36:16.040]  Yeah, you know, it's...
[36:16.580 --> 36:18.720]  I said it before, and I still mean it.
[36:18.840 --> 36:27.040]  There's something magical about being in New York City and being able to be outside at night looking at the stars, you know, and just...
[36:27.040 --> 36:30.600]  You feel like you're in the country, but you're right in the city.
[36:31.880 --> 36:33.680]  That's the magic of Queens.
[36:34.020 --> 36:37.300]  You know, it's one of the most diverse places in the world.
[36:38.320 --> 36:44.120]  It's so close to everything, but there are also these little magical places.
[36:44.380 --> 36:56.700]  I had to stop myself in many instances over that weekend, just taking it in, realizing that this was actually what hope was for us now, and it was very different.
[36:56.980 --> 37:19.300]  I would, I think, even joke at different points about, oh, you know what we would be doing right now if we were back here, you know, dropping off there and picking up in the middle of a rainstorm and parking tickets, and I had a lot of more tranquil moments to myself and just to take it in.
[37:20.720 --> 37:24.800]  in this sort of transformed iteration of hope.
[37:25.020 --> 37:31.460]  So, it was very new and I hope other people felt that was positive as well.
[37:31.580 --> 37:33.640]  I thought it was good to be able to reflect.
[37:34.620 --> 37:39.840]  Okay, Alex just asked me to call him, but now he's on Skype, so I don't know which I'm supposed to do.
[37:41.040 --> 37:43.520]  Alex, are you there on the airplane?
[37:48.730 --> 37:49.970]  You sound terrible.
[37:50.010 --> 37:51.170]  I can barely hear you.
[37:54.340 --> 37:54.960]  That's great.
[37:55.220 --> 37:56.080]  Yeah, that's awful.
[37:56.460 --> 37:58.960]  But can I call you on signal?
[38:06.060 --> 38:07.540]  Did anybody hear what you said?
[38:10.400 --> 38:11.520]  Will you ever make that out?
[38:12.340 --> 38:13.400]  No one's saying anything.
[38:13.520 --> 38:14.480]  Did anybody hear what he said?
[38:14.880 --> 38:16.060]  I think he said sure.
[38:16.340 --> 38:16.560]  Okay.
[38:16.800 --> 38:16.940]  Yeah.
[38:16.940 --> 38:17.340]  All right.
[38:17.480 --> 38:17.780]  Thank you.
[38:18.300 --> 38:18.920]  Well, let's call.
[38:27.870 --> 38:31.230]  I swear this 21st century is not working out.
[38:33.570 --> 38:34.390]  It's jaunty.
[38:35.190 --> 38:36.310]  I don't like jaunty.
[38:36.570 --> 38:37.810]  I like it.
[38:39.690 --> 38:41.190]  We'll check in in a half hour.
[38:44.050 --> 38:52.570]  Also, I think I realized all we need to do is get Alex to do the show on a boat and then I think we've got all the modes of transportation covered.
[38:52.710 --> 38:53.830]  They all sound like crap.
[38:54.270 --> 38:58.150]  Because he's been in a car and he's been on a train and now he's been on a plane.
[38:58.430 --> 38:59.230]  Wait, now he's calling me.
[38:59.510 --> 38:59.790]  Hang on.
[39:00.030 --> 39:01.010]  Okay, so I'll pick up.
[39:01.410 --> 39:03.590]  Apparently, Alex, are you there?
[39:08.680 --> 39:10.920]  I don't know if you can...
[39:11.640 --> 39:11.960]  Okay.
[39:12.320 --> 39:13.400]  I'm not sure if he's there at all.
[39:13.640 --> 39:14.320]  Alex, are you there?
[39:17.200 --> 39:18.620]  Am I supposed to hit something on this?
[39:19.000 --> 39:20.560]  Wait, now he's back on the Skype.
[39:20.740 --> 39:21.900]  Now he's on both at once.
[39:23.300 --> 39:23.620]  Whoa.
[39:25.020 --> 39:26.460]  Okay, I don't know what we're supposed to do here.
[39:28.440 --> 39:31.040]  We wait for one of the myriad Alex's.
[39:31.220 --> 39:31.700]  Yeah.
[39:32.980 --> 39:34.500]  833-321-HACK.
[39:34.760 --> 39:38.740]  You can also talk to us about whatever is on your mind.
[39:38.740 --> 39:39.960]  I don't think that's the right number.
[39:40.100 --> 39:40.720]  Again, I think...
[39:40.720 --> 39:42.960]  It's 802-321-HACK.
[39:42.960 --> 39:43.200]  Oh, yeah.
[39:44.120 --> 39:45.740]  You mixed the two numbers together.
[39:46.040 --> 39:46.300]  It's okay.
[39:46.500 --> 39:46.720]  It's okay.
[39:46.880 --> 39:48.100]  802-321-HACK.
[39:48.100 --> 39:50.860]  833-755-2600.
[39:51.080 --> 39:51.660]  That one.
[39:52.480 --> 39:52.880]  Yeah.
[39:53.160 --> 39:54.080]  Which I thought was 888.
[39:54.320 --> 39:55.800]  Because 833, I mean, come on.
[39:55.900 --> 39:56.940]  That's kind of 888.
[39:57.180 --> 39:58.280]  It's just missing some stuff.
[39:58.400 --> 40:00.900]  If you're, you know, kind of visual like I am.
[40:01.560 --> 40:04.640]  You know, a signal says I'm connected to him, but it's not coming up.
[40:04.840 --> 40:05.600]  Yeah, clearly.
[40:07.500 --> 40:08.660]  Is my volume up?
[40:08.740 --> 40:09.540]  Yeah, my volume's up.
[40:09.580 --> 40:10.500]  Everything should be working.
[40:11.700 --> 40:12.860]  So, I don't get it.
[40:15.420 --> 40:26.160]  Well, whether you out there are Alex or not, give us a call at 802-321-4225 or 833-755-2600 and let us know what's on your mind.
[40:27.320 --> 40:28.040]  Pure energy.
[40:29.240 --> 40:32.540]  I'm hanging up, Alex, because I'm not really connected to you.
[40:34.180 --> 40:35.220]  I'm leaving the call.
[40:35.320 --> 40:36.580]  That's because you can't hang up.
[40:36.640 --> 40:37.540]  You can only leave the call.
[40:38.720 --> 40:41.180]  I'll try calling one more time, but that's it.
[40:41.620 --> 40:42.800]  It's getting a little tiresome.
[40:46.300 --> 40:50.860]  It reminds me of when we used to do the show with a music bed going through the whole thing sometimes.
[40:51.740 --> 40:56.460]  Yeah, we do that occasionally still, but only on special occasions.
[40:57.900 --> 41:01.520]  You know what it reminds me of are the little LCD keyboards.
[41:01.580 --> 41:01.840]  Oh, wait.
[41:02.020 --> 41:02.840]  I think I have them.
[41:03.080 --> 41:03.720]  Alex, are you there?
[41:05.860 --> 41:06.580]  Yep, I'm here.
[41:06.720 --> 41:07.540]  Oh, wow, he's there.
[41:07.640 --> 41:08.160]  How about that?
[41:08.660 --> 41:10.960]  You're very low again, but you sound a little better.
[41:13.600 --> 41:14.620]  All right, yeah, I'm here.
[41:14.720 --> 41:15.300]  Yeah.
[41:15.600 --> 41:16.680]  Okay, we can work with this.
[41:16.740 --> 41:18.140]  I'm as loud as I possibly can, I guess.
[41:18.280 --> 41:20.840]  Well, you still sound low, but you sound better.
[41:20.960 --> 41:21.460]  How about that?
[41:21.640 --> 41:25.840]  So, tell us where you are and what's been going on on the plane since we left you last.
[41:28.340 --> 41:29.740]  Uh, not very much.
[41:29.900 --> 41:30.460]  It's hot.
[41:30.960 --> 41:33.280]  It's full of people going to DEF CON, I think.
[41:34.140 --> 41:36.820]  And, you know, there's really not much else going on.
[41:37.000 --> 41:42.400]  I'm just sweating it out up here at 30,000 feet on the way to Las Vegas.
[41:42.820 --> 41:44.300]  And, uh, yeah.
[41:44.520 --> 41:47.400]  I missed, uh, you know, doing the show with you guys tonight.
[41:47.520 --> 41:48.940]  I hope it was a good one for the rest of us.
[41:49.100 --> 41:53.000]  You know, Alex, I can't help but wonder why you always travel on Wednesdays.
[41:53.120 --> 41:57.180]  It seems like you schedule your travel for during off the hook.
[41:59.400 --> 42:00.360]  I, I know.
[42:00.600 --> 42:03.060]  Yeah, it's just the luck of the draw, I have to say.
[42:03.440 --> 42:07.360]  I mean, uh, I'm often traveling and, you know, it just falls on a Wednesday.
[42:07.580 --> 42:16.960]  I guess it's like, you know, it's a good day for business-related travel because it's the middle of the week and you get back on Friday, get your stuff done, you know, come on a flight service.
[42:17.680 --> 42:22.440]  Yeah, and, uh, and by the way, I'll only be over in Vegas for two days and then heading back.
[42:22.740 --> 42:24.220]  So, uh, short trip.
[42:27.180 --> 42:28.040]  uh, the streams.
[42:28.440 --> 42:32.400]  If, um, send me a link to those so I can at least see some of the talks.
[42:32.560 --> 42:33.060]  That'd be kind of cool.
[42:35.200 --> 42:35.600]  Yeah.
[42:36.380 --> 42:38.000]  Yeah, it definitely would.
[42:38.280 --> 42:41.120]  Uh, I hope that, you know, I'll be able to to pop in.
[42:41.260 --> 42:41.600]  There's quite a few.
[42:41.780 --> 42:43.480]  I'm doing a panel on Thursday.
[42:44.320 --> 42:44.680]  No, I'm sorry.
[42:44.820 --> 42:51.460]  I'm doing a panel on Friday night um, on social engineering and the ethics and legality of social engineering.
[42:51.740 --> 42:52.900]  So that should be kind of cool.
[42:53.980 --> 42:54.380]  Awesome.
[42:54.660 --> 42:54.920]  Wow.
[42:55.740 --> 43:01.860]  Um, well, uh, I'm glad we finally made a connection and, and, and signal seems to be working as far as, um, uh, hearing you clearly.
[43:02.020 --> 43:03.980]  I don't know why it was so hard to connect in the first place.
[43:04.540 --> 43:06.680]  But, um, yeah.
[43:07.400 --> 43:08.880]  Or what that noise is all about.
[43:09.360 --> 43:12.540]  It does seem like Skype was blocked on the plane.
[43:12.780 --> 43:14.300]  I just couldn't connect at all.
[43:14.500 --> 43:14.760]  Uh-huh.
[43:14.820 --> 43:26.360]  But then when I connected to a VPN and then relaunched Skype, I don't know if this came through when I was talking before, but, um, I was able to connect into the Skype conversation only when going through a VPN.
[43:27.140 --> 43:29.700]  So obviously the, you know, the traffic was being used.
[43:29.880 --> 43:30.820]  The traffic was a cripple.
[43:31.740 --> 43:38.600]  So, um, I guess Skype was a known bandwidth hog and, uh, they were trying to stop that.
[43:39.040 --> 43:45.140]  But, but you were able to, uh, defeat their, their security system, which is what any hacker traveling on a plane should be able to do.
[43:56.130 --> 44:03.250]  Well, we're talking to a couple people who went to the conference, uh, you know, getting suggestions, ideas, and, uh, feedback, which is always good to hear.
[44:03.890 --> 44:07.210]  And, um, you know, not much else, just a couple of weird news stories.
[44:07.410 --> 44:15.050]  Uh, we found that Google Alerts is completely broken and sending us stories from a couple of years ago as if they were news stories, um, you know, usual.
[44:15.310 --> 44:16.310]  Did you have drink service?
[44:16.630 --> 44:16.930]  Yeah.
[44:17.010 --> 44:19.690]  Have you, have you had your, your complimentary beverage yet?
[44:21.810 --> 44:25.510]  Yeah, I, I've just had water because I'm dehydrated.
[44:25.650 --> 44:26.190]  Uh-huh.
[44:26.370 --> 44:32.390]  But, um, I, I will tell you this, though, I, I have, I have some alcohol in my bag when I go off.
[44:32.570 --> 44:32.890]  Whoa.
[44:33.530 --> 44:41.290]  Because, um, I, I was in the lounge before and realized, oh, God, I'm going to be on this flight for six hours.
[44:41.930 --> 44:45.690]  And, uh, you know, why don't I just grab a couple of cans of something or dessert?
[44:45.910 --> 44:47.590]  So, I grabbed a whole bunch of water.
[44:48.050 --> 44:48.190]  Uh-huh.
[44:48.270 --> 44:53.310]  And, um, and I've got some Coney Island IPA that I'm interested in popping over shortly.
[44:53.770 --> 44:54.130]  Okay.
[44:54.390 --> 44:56.030]  That's proper style there.
[44:56.270 --> 44:58.310]  Yeah, it sounds like this plane will be a little bit more enjoyable.
[44:58.490 --> 45:00.450]  But, uh, let me just ask, you said it was hot.
[45:00.590 --> 45:03.250]  Don't they have, uh, air conditioning on on this?
[45:03.330 --> 45:04.330]  Or are you flying Spirit Air?
[45:06.930 --> 45:08.990]  Uh, no, I'm not flying Spirit Air.
[45:09.490 --> 45:09.970]  Uh-huh.
[45:10.270 --> 45:11.130]  There is air conditioning.
[45:11.390 --> 45:12.650]  It's just, it's still hot.
[45:13.110 --> 45:13.530]  Uh-huh.
[45:13.630 --> 45:17.490]  I think it's because the plane was baking so long on the runway.
[45:18.730 --> 45:22.710]  And I, I imagine, I imagine everybody is unmasked, right?
[45:22.710 --> 45:26.170]  because, uh, because, yeah, Republicans.
[45:29.950 --> 45:31.670]  Well, try not to breathe too much.
[45:34.610 --> 45:35.510]  So you get it?
[45:36.150 --> 45:39.370]  I'm advising you not to breathe as much as you might normally.
[45:44.690 --> 45:49.650]  Well, shall we try to take a phone call while we have Alex on the airplane?
[45:50.210 --> 45:51.270]  On, uh, Sigma as well?
[45:51.390 --> 45:53.110]  Okay, so 802-321-4225.
[45:53.770 --> 45:56.970]  Uh, we might turn him down a little bit because it's, it's, it's noisy there.
[45:57.650 --> 46:01.130]  Um, but, um, we've talked to people on planes before.
[46:01.150 --> 46:02.370]  I don't think it was this rough.
[46:03.770 --> 46:08.770]  But then technology is kind of spiraling anyway, so can't be, can't be too surprised.
[46:08.770 --> 46:12.630]  802-321-4225 or 833...
[46:13.170 --> 46:14.210]  I don't know the rest.
[46:16.250 --> 46:20.610]  It's 833-755-2600.
[46:20.770 --> 46:22.550]  833-755-2600.
[46:22.650 --> 46:22.930]  Got it.
[46:23.090 --> 46:23.290]  Okay.
[46:24.190 --> 46:25.870]  Either one of those numbers will get to us.
[46:25.910 --> 46:31.330]  Although the second number won't get to us from overseas because you can't call those kind of numbers, but the first one will.
[46:32.250 --> 46:37.430]  And we'll just wait for that phone call to come in for another couple of minutes because we've got things to do too.
[46:37.810 --> 46:43.910]  So if there are not going to be more phone calls, then I'll be just as happy to get to work on those other projects.
[46:45.590 --> 46:46.330]  So it's
[46:49.710 --> 46:51.990]  a nice warm ride
[46:55.730 --> 46:58.490]  fun fact, it's negative 40 outside the plane.
[47:00.570 --> 47:01.550]  How do you know that?
[47:02.250 --> 47:03.110]  I just know.
[47:03.590 --> 47:04.790]  Wait a minute, I think we lost him.
[47:04.910 --> 47:06.090]  Yeah, he's not connected anymore.
[47:06.090 --> 47:07.150]  He hung up on us.
[47:08.430 --> 47:08.790]  Wow.
[47:09.130 --> 47:10.390]  Without telling us, he hung up.
[47:10.530 --> 47:13.530]  Well, I don't know how he would tell us if he hung up, but I'm calling him back.
[47:14.290 --> 47:15.490]  You can't really getting mixed signals.
[47:15.730 --> 47:17.870]  You can't just hang up on me like that.
[47:20.030 --> 47:21.670]  I will lean on redog.
[47:22.970 --> 47:23.650]  802.
[47:24.590 --> 47:25.730]  3, 2, 1.
[47:26.870 --> 47:27.550]  Hack.
[47:28.830 --> 47:29.510]  Nice.
[47:29.830 --> 47:30.070]  Nice.
[47:31.370 --> 47:33.330]  That's cool, too.
[47:34.710 --> 47:35.390]  Yeah.
[47:37.650 --> 47:40.370]  What would make this perfect is if somebody called.
[47:43.560 --> 47:47.000]  Can someone remix this ringtone into something?
[47:47.220 --> 47:49.800]  Because I think it's kind of a bop.
[47:49.900 --> 47:50.300]  I really do.
[47:50.520 --> 47:53.580]  Yeah, but then Google will come after you and say that you're not allowed to.
[47:55.960 --> 47:56.640]  Oh, my God.
[47:56.740 --> 47:59.220]  Are we going to get a copyright claim for that ringtone?
[47:59.900 --> 48:01.780]  I would not be surprised at all.
[48:01.940 --> 48:02.760]  I would not be surprised.
[48:03.440 --> 48:04.640]  Because it's YouTube, Ron.
[48:04.980 --> 48:11.640]  As he was describing it, I was realizing the plane probably doesn't want 200 people all on Skype.
[48:11.800 --> 48:13.180]  Somebody pick that damn phone up!
[48:17.040 --> 48:17.600]  All right.
[48:17.740 --> 48:19.960]  We have a phone call just as they disconnected.
[48:19.960 --> 48:20.920]  Good evening.
[48:21.120 --> 48:21.960]  You're on Off Talk Overtime.
[48:22.060 --> 48:22.280]  Go ahead.
[48:23.780 --> 48:25.500]  Hey, how's it going, Emmanuel?
[48:25.760 --> 48:26.400]  It's going well.
[48:26.480 --> 48:27.020]  How are you?
[48:28.160 --> 48:29.120]  Hey, I'm good.
[48:29.280 --> 48:30.200]  This is Lost Key.
[48:30.200 --> 48:33.880]  I was actually at Hope this year and had a great time.
[48:34.020 --> 48:34.780]  My first Hope.
[48:34.960 --> 48:35.760]  That's great to hear.
[48:35.920 --> 48:37.140]  And where did you come from?
[48:38.800 --> 48:39.240]  California.
[48:39.700 --> 48:40.000]  Wow.
[48:40.220 --> 48:42.040]  Okay, so give us your impressions.
[48:42.060 --> 48:43.880]  First time at a Hope conference.
[48:44.600 --> 48:46.240]  Is this your first conference period?
[48:47.600 --> 48:49.700]  No, I've been to DEF CON a few times.
[48:50.680 --> 48:52.320]  This was my first Hope, though.
[48:52.780 --> 48:55.680]  I loved that it was just quiet and low-key.
[48:55.680 --> 49:01.040]  We got to meet all the speakers and everybody was very approachable.
[49:01.980 --> 49:03.680]  The campus was great.
[49:03.860 --> 49:06.380]  We stayed in the dorms and had a blast.
[49:07.060 --> 49:08.240]  Those dorms were cool.
[49:08.340 --> 49:08.960]  We stayed there, too.
[49:09.680 --> 49:15.580]  It was great to wake up on campus and just be able to walk into a talk or a workshop.
[49:16.960 --> 49:18.140]  Yep, absolutely.
[49:18.640 --> 49:19.040]  absolutely.
[49:20.320 --> 49:21.540]  And yeah, it was great.
[49:21.700 --> 49:33.100]  We attended as many talks as we could, you know, and I think it was a marketing ploy that the air conditioning was so cold that people were buying hoodies to stay warm in the talks.
[49:33.440 --> 49:40.120]  No, that wasn't our idea, but we're just glad that people were able to get in from the heat because we were very concerned about that.
[49:40.240 --> 49:43.780]  When we heard it was going to be a heat wave during that weekend, we knew they were being tested.
[49:44.000 --> 49:48.320]  You know, there was always a possibility of a heat wave or hurricane or something like that happening.
[49:48.520 --> 49:51.560]  And St. John's really came through and took care of people.
[49:51.720 --> 49:53.120]  So that was a good thing.
[49:54.360 --> 49:55.220]  Yeah, yeah.
[49:55.480 --> 49:56.880]  So overall, it was a good time.
[49:57.060 --> 49:59.040]  I'm looking forward to going to the next one.
[49:59.220 --> 49:59.440]  Cool.
[49:59.540 --> 50:00.100]  It's good to hear.
[50:00.260 --> 50:06.940]  And when you say we're quiet, I just want to make it clear to people, we can make noise if we want to make noise, if we have concerts and things like that.
[50:06.940 --> 50:12.720]  But I think what you mean is it's not just drunken, loud partying everywhere.
[50:12.900 --> 50:14.960]  You can do that, but just not on campus.
[50:15.240 --> 50:16.600]  And people were doing that.
[50:17.420 --> 50:22.420]  There was the hotel had a bar and all kinds of options.
[50:22.520 --> 50:28.240]  I just think if we get bigger and have more spaces to work with, there will be all sorts of options for different things like that.
[50:28.360 --> 50:32.780]  But the overall mood on campus, yeah, that's what you experienced.
[50:33.940 --> 50:35.300]  Yeah, it was a good time.
[50:35.580 --> 50:37.840]  I would recommend it to all my friends.
[50:38.500 --> 50:38.840]  Very cool.
[50:39.060 --> 50:41.460]  Well, thanks so much for calling, and I'm glad you made it.
[50:42.480 --> 50:47.080]  Yeah, and then, you know, there's one other thing I wanted to mention, that today's an important day in history.
[50:47.760 --> 51:02.580]  34 years ago today, Dade Murphy, age 11, going by the alias Zero Cool, found guilty of crashing 1,507 computers and single-handedly causing a drop in the New York stock exchange today.
[51:03.040 --> 51:03.520]  Wow.
[51:03.620 --> 51:05.120]  That is something.
[51:05.360 --> 51:14.680]  You know, between that and passing the day that George Jetson was born, it's really some pivotal moments in Hollywood history.
[51:14.920 --> 51:15.940]  What a legend.
[51:16.160 --> 51:16.540]  Indeed.
[51:16.840 --> 51:17.060]  Wow.
[51:17.600 --> 51:17.980]  Indeed.
[51:18.660 --> 51:20.100]  Well, thanks for sharing.
[51:20.200 --> 51:20.760]  Talk to the planet.
[51:21.180 --> 51:21.800]  Take care.
[51:21.860 --> 51:22.340]  Have a good one.
[51:22.460 --> 51:22.900]  You too.
[51:23.380 --> 51:23.540]  Bye.
[51:24.400 --> 51:26.160]  You know, I think that's a good call to end on.
[51:26.280 --> 51:26.760]  I really do.
[51:26.920 --> 51:27.820]  We're not going to top that.
[51:28.280 --> 51:31.020]  And we're not going to try Alex anymore because I'm sick of it.
[51:32.580 --> 51:33.120]  All right.
[51:34.040 --> 51:35.380]  Good hang out, folks.
[51:36.680 --> 51:37.040]  Absolutely.
[51:37.520 --> 51:40.780]  Gila's on the other side of the room, so maybe she could run back and say good night.
[51:42.240 --> 51:42.900]  Say good night.
[51:43.100 --> 51:43.640]  Have a good night.
[51:44.000 --> 51:44.280]  All right.
[51:44.380 --> 51:45.800]  See, that's what we do.
[51:46.300 --> 51:47.960]  And Rob, good seeing you.
[51:48.480 --> 51:49.100]  And you.
[51:49.600 --> 51:51.460]  And good hearing from all of you out there.
[51:51.620 --> 51:51.920]  Yes.
[51:52.760 --> 51:56.560]  We will see you in two weeks on Off the Hook and Off the Hook Overtime.
[51:56.620 --> 52:01.080]  You can write to us, OTH at 2600.com.
[52:01.500 --> 52:05.900]  And you can tweet at us, Hacker Radio Show is our Twitter address.
[52:06.240 --> 52:11.840]  And here's an auditory high five from all of us to you out there.
[52:13.900 --> 52:15.400]  Am I supposed to join in on that?
[52:16.060 --> 52:16.200]  No.
[52:16.640 --> 52:16.980]  Okay, good.
[52:17.860 --> 52:18.900]  I'm really tired.
[52:19.120 --> 52:20.040]  Thanks for listening.
[52:20.400 --> 52:21.000]  We're very tired.
[52:21.820 --> 52:22.540]  Good night.