[00:00.000 --> 00:02.600]  ...and WBAI.org online.
[00:03.080 --> 00:03.920]  Stay tuned.
[00:16.750 --> 00:17.890]  Why, hello there.
[00:18.030 --> 00:21.790]  It's 7 o'clock, and you're listening to WBAI in New York.
[00:21.790 --> 00:26.430]  It's a Wednesday evening, and every now and then, that means it's time for Off the Hook.
[00:31.640 --> 00:36.120]  The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[00:37.060 --> 00:41.660]  I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a cough.
[00:42.300 --> 00:44.440]  We couldn't get much worse.
[00:45.160 --> 00:49.840]  Live on for the best, expect the worst.
[00:50.540 --> 00:52.400]  I hope that's understood.
[00:52.600 --> 00:53.300]  Monday, go!
[02:06.910 --> 02:09.910]  And the very good evening, Charter Ride Program is Off the Hook.
[02:10.030 --> 02:12.650]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening.
[02:13.170 --> 02:14.830]  Joined tonight by Kyle.
[02:15.050 --> 02:15.450]  Hi, E.
[02:15.610 --> 02:16.130]  How you doing?
[02:16.370 --> 02:16.670]  Pretty good.
[02:16.990 --> 02:20.630]  And out there on Skypeland, looks like we have Rob T.
[02:20.730 --> 02:21.130]  Firefly.
[02:21.910 --> 02:22.710]  Good evening.
[02:23.150 --> 02:23.990]  And we have Gila.
[02:24.570 --> 02:25.330]  Good evening.
[02:25.530 --> 02:26.810]  And my goodness, is that Alex?
[02:29.550 --> 02:30.890]  Alex, who's been struck dumb.
[02:31.630 --> 02:35.350]  We see him, he's waving at us, but I can't quite seem to find the words.
[02:36.310 --> 02:36.850]  I'm here.
[02:37.010 --> 02:37.530]  Good evening.
[02:37.770 --> 02:38.190]  There you are.
[02:38.290 --> 02:38.510]  Okay.
[02:39.770 --> 02:40.850]  You look different.
[02:41.270 --> 02:45.970]  You look like you're coming in in like PAL format instead of NTSC.
[02:46.870 --> 02:52.530]  You know, it's, yeah, it's a different video standard, which indicates to me that you're in a different part of the world.
[02:53.430 --> 02:54.330]  I am indeed.
[02:54.670 --> 02:57.730]  I am in a much different part of the world at the moment.
[02:57.850 --> 02:57.910]  Yeah.
[02:57.970 --> 02:58.810]  Did you think you could hide that?
[02:58.910 --> 02:59.490]  I can tell.
[02:59.650 --> 03:00.050]  I can see.
[03:00.210 --> 03:01.010]  I can see that.
[03:01.150 --> 03:01.230]  Yeah.
[03:01.290 --> 03:02.590]  Nothing gets past you, Emmanuel.
[03:02.830 --> 03:03.190]  Let me tell you.
[03:03.330 --> 03:03.970]  Not really.
[03:04.110 --> 03:04.210]  No.
[03:05.190 --> 03:15.210]  You seem to be somewhere in the Western Hemisphere where people drive on the right-hand side of the road, and it's currently nighttime, and English is not the first language.
[03:15.490 --> 03:16.630]  I'm just getting that from your eyes.
[03:17.350 --> 03:17.750]  Yeah.
[03:18.350 --> 03:19.530]  That's all true.
[03:19.770 --> 03:20.270]  All true.
[03:20.650 --> 03:21.050]  Fantastic.
[03:21.370 --> 03:21.810]  How about that?
[03:22.270 --> 03:22.550]  Yep.
[03:22.810 --> 03:22.910]  Yep.
[03:23.090 --> 03:25.390]  And could you tell them on an island?
[03:27.790 --> 03:28.430]  You know what?
[03:28.450 --> 03:29.130]  That didn't come through.
[03:29.350 --> 03:30.150]  Did not come through.
[03:30.230 --> 03:30.850]  That didn't come through.
[03:30.950 --> 03:34.230]  The significance to the letter G, though, does that mean anything to you?
[03:34.470 --> 03:35.270]  The letter G.
[03:35.650 --> 03:37.510]  To the letter G?
[03:37.610 --> 03:37.770]  Yeah.
[03:37.890 --> 03:38.670]  No, it doesn't.
[03:38.790 --> 03:38.910]  No.
[03:39.010 --> 03:39.410]  Okay.
[03:39.410 --> 03:41.030]  How about, did you have a childhood?
[03:43.730 --> 03:45.090]  Did I have a childhood?
[03:45.410 --> 03:45.490]  Yes.
[03:45.490 --> 03:46.070]  Yes, I did.
[03:46.230 --> 03:46.470]  Okay.
[03:46.690 --> 03:46.990]  All right.
[03:47.090 --> 03:49.930]  Then I think we're zeroing in on your issues.
[03:50.130 --> 03:50.430]  Okay.
[03:50.550 --> 03:51.110]  Okay, fine.
[03:51.490 --> 03:55.210]  And by the way, listeners, if you want a reading, it doesn't cost much.
[03:55.830 --> 03:57.490]  We're here to offer that to you.
[03:57.690 --> 03:59.370]  No, seriously, though, this is off the hook.
[03:59.370 --> 04:02.890]  In case you're not familiar, in case you've been away, we've been away for a while.
[04:03.030 --> 04:03.990]  We've been on for three weeks.
[04:04.190 --> 04:05.030]  Apologies for that.
[04:05.370 --> 04:06.190]  Here's what happened.
[04:06.190 --> 04:09.450]  And we had transmitter maintenance that was going on.
[04:09.610 --> 04:10.930]  It seemed to be going on forever.
[04:12.130 --> 04:21.110]  And somebody thought, and it's not BAI, it's whoever maintains transmitters for most of the radio stations that are on four times square.
[04:22.350 --> 04:28.350]  They thought the best time to do that is in the middle of the day, for several days in the middle of the week.
[04:28.730 --> 04:35.250]  And while it was finished, basically, we had all kinds of other obligations.
[04:35.470 --> 04:38.090]  For instance, there was a live broadcast from Nairobi.
[04:39.670 --> 04:42.270]  And I guess the best time to do that is 2 a.m.
[04:42.270 --> 04:43.990]  their time, which was when we're on the air.
[04:43.990 --> 04:47.910]  So we stepped aside last week for that, for the better interest.
[04:48.050 --> 04:53.450]  So I'm sorry to listeners who might be confused, who might not have been able to find us over the last couple of weeks.
[04:53.450 --> 04:54.110]  We're here now.
[04:55.870 --> 04:57.810]  And we hope you're there as well.
[04:57.910 --> 05:00.630]  Of course, you can write to us, OTH at 2600.com.
[05:00.930 --> 05:03.690]  And of course, you can always go to WBAI.org.
[05:03.850 --> 05:07.230]  And especially go there if you wish to donate, keep the radio station going.
[05:07.430 --> 05:09.410]  Or call 212-209-2950.
[05:09.890 --> 05:11.430]  I think that number always works.
[05:12.790 --> 05:14.710]  That's how we stay on the air without commercials.
[05:15.070 --> 05:18.550]  And we've been doing it, not us, but the radio station since 1960.
[05:18.970 --> 05:20.090]  So we're on this week.
[05:20.150 --> 05:22.730]  And hopefully, we'll be on for the coming Wednesdays.
[05:23.190 --> 05:26.350]  And we're doing overtime tonight as well at 8 o'clock on YouTube.
[05:26.570 --> 05:27.950]  Go to 2600.com.
[05:28.010 --> 05:29.310]  Look at the top of the page for the link.
[05:29.630 --> 05:33.650]  Or just go to our YouTube channel of Channel 2600.
[05:33.770 --> 05:35.750]  One word, and the number is 2600.
[05:36.050 --> 05:38.610]  So, Alex, tell us something about where you are right now.
[05:40.290 --> 05:41.410]  Sure, absolutely.
[05:41.770 --> 05:49.310]  And I'll say, you know, I'm at a place in the world where I probably won't join everybody for overtime because it will be late.
[05:49.590 --> 05:50.870]  So I'm six hours.
[05:51.110 --> 05:53.650]  Because of the dictatorship that you're there, they don't allow overtime?
[05:54.490 --> 05:55.950]  That's absolutely true.
[05:55.950 --> 05:58.410]  Yeah, they don't allow YouTube at all.
[05:58.530 --> 05:59.090]  Oh, wow.
[05:59.350 --> 06:02.830]  You know, I am in a part of France.
[06:02.830 --> 06:03.910]  That is an island.
[06:05.170 --> 06:08.690]  And in the Terranian Sea, I'm in Corsica.
[06:09.150 --> 06:14.070]  I am on the eastern side of Corsica at the moment.
[06:14.210 --> 06:15.650]  No YouTube allowed in Corsica.
[06:15.770 --> 06:16.690]  Spread that around everybody.
[06:16.970 --> 06:18.430]  This is straight from Alex.
[06:18.650 --> 06:20.530]  And as you know, he never gives out bad information.
[06:21.230 --> 06:21.970]  That's true.
[06:22.190 --> 06:22.530]  Exactly.
[06:22.930 --> 06:23.030]  Yeah.
[06:23.510 --> 06:25.150]  But have you ever been to Corsica?
[06:25.150 --> 06:26.330]  I have never been to Corsica.
[06:27.330 --> 06:27.850]  Yeah.
[06:28.130 --> 06:30.290]  It's quite a magical place, I have to say.
[06:30.490 --> 06:39.990]  I mean, the mountains are tall and beautiful and the beaches are incredible and the driving is typically European.
[06:40.350 --> 06:45.750]  It just always amazes me that, you know, how narrow the roads are.
[06:46.010 --> 06:56.830]  Despite the roads being new, for some reason, Europeans still have to make narrow roads just to make the driving feel more European and slightly dangerous at every single turn.
[06:57.230 --> 07:07.410]  But I was in Italy last week and I think we should mention, too, that, you know, our preemption last week was pretty, you know, sudden.
[07:07.410 --> 07:09.190]  So we were ready to go.
[07:09.390 --> 07:16.670]  I was ready to do the show from Italy last week and then I took a ferry from Livorno in Italy over to Corsica.
[07:16.910 --> 07:33.830]  And one of the things that really struck me as uniquely un-American was that when we're waiting for the ferry is Corsica ferries, you know, literally from the western coast of, you know, northern Italy.
[07:34.030 --> 07:34.510]  Un-American.
[07:34.610 --> 07:35.390]  I can hardly wait.
[07:36.150 --> 07:36.610]  Yeah.
[07:36.890 --> 07:39.330]  Well, you know, the ferry was a bit late.
[07:39.410 --> 07:42.150]  So all the cars were lined up waiting for the ferry.
[07:42.330 --> 07:44.610]  It was a hot day, humid day.
[07:44.850 --> 07:52.010]  The sun was beating down and you just have, you know, this long line of cars just sitting there waiting for the ferry.
[07:52.810 --> 07:57.170]  And what was incredible to me was that nobody had their engines on.
[07:57.450 --> 08:02.150]  Nobody was sitting in the car with their windows rolled up and had the AC on.
[08:02.590 --> 08:11.630]  Everybody had their car shut off, was hanging out outside, doing various things, talking to each other, walking around, playing ball.
[08:12.010 --> 08:13.270]  Nobody complained.
[08:13.550 --> 08:14.670]  Nobody was upset.
[08:14.830 --> 08:23.530]  It was the heat was just blaring down and nobody was sitting there being ecologically unfriendly by just running their car.
[08:23.750 --> 08:25.350]  It was it was it was absolutely incredible.
[08:25.510 --> 08:35.510]  I feel like if if this were in America, people would be raising hell about the ferry being late and the heat being what it was.
[08:35.690 --> 08:43.470]  And they'd be in their their metal cocoons with the engine blaring and the carbon monoxide coming out the back.
[08:43.590 --> 08:45.430]  And nobody was doing that.
[08:45.550 --> 08:46.690]  It was really fascinating.
[08:46.690 --> 08:50.910]  There wasn't even one person raising a stink?
[08:51.210 --> 08:52.090]  Not even you?
[08:52.190 --> 08:52.530]  That's it.
[08:53.130 --> 08:54.070]  Not even me.
[08:54.230 --> 08:57.090]  I mean, I would have I would have really stuck out.
[08:57.190 --> 09:00.330]  I think if I made any kind of thing, nobody would have listened to anyone.
[09:00.730 --> 09:01.550]  That's probably true.
[09:02.630 --> 09:03.790]  Yeah, that's the thing.
[09:03.990 --> 09:08.490]  And then the ferry ride over to Corsica is beautiful.
[09:08.710 --> 09:09.830]  And you're going across the end.
[09:09.830 --> 09:14.750]  But but they're also like that was extremely hot inside the cabin of this ferry.
[09:15.090 --> 09:17.030]  And yet again, you know, nobody was complaining.
[09:17.430 --> 09:20.290]  This is the kind of thing that would have caused some kind of civil revolt.
[09:20.450 --> 09:20.850]  I feel like.
[09:20.950 --> 09:22.150]  Well, it had happened in New York.
[09:22.250 --> 09:23.170]  No, hold on a second.
[09:23.230 --> 09:29.270]  I don't know why you pick on New York, because New York has some of the most patient people I've ever seen, especially when it comes to traffic.
[09:29.370 --> 09:30.710]  Yeah, people do honk their horn sometimes.
[09:30.710 --> 09:42.570]  But when people understand what the problem is, for instance, you know, a half hour backup on the BQE, you know, sometimes people just chill and they know what's going on and they can't do anything about it.
[09:42.710 --> 09:49.150]  And I've seen that countless times in New York where people just take a chill pill and they relax a little bit.
[09:49.210 --> 09:50.570]  And that's it.
[09:50.650 --> 09:51.190]  It does happen.
[09:51.550 --> 09:52.610]  Yeah, you do.
[09:52.690 --> 09:55.850]  You very often see the opposite of people taking a chill pill.
[09:56.030 --> 09:56.750]  Well, that's true.
[09:56.750 --> 10:00.610]  But I wouldn't I wouldn't confine that to New York if you're going to say it's a U.S.
[10:00.610 --> 10:00.950]  thing.
[10:01.330 --> 10:02.630]  You see that every place.
[10:02.770 --> 10:05.970]  And I see a lot more impatience in other parts of the country as well.
[10:06.450 --> 10:11.330]  So, yeah, and I'm sure I'm sure there are plenty of impatient people in France.
[10:11.750 --> 10:12.730]  I've heard rumors.
[10:13.330 --> 10:14.010]  Oh, yeah.
[10:14.130 --> 10:14.190]  Yeah.
[10:14.430 --> 10:15.290]  Most certainly.
[10:15.630 --> 10:16.110]  Absolutely.
[10:16.510 --> 10:16.750]  Yeah.
[10:16.990 --> 10:18.350]  I mean, very impatient people.
[10:18.470 --> 10:21.790]  I found it in the grocery stores, especially if you don't speak French very well.
[10:23.030 --> 10:38.230]  You know, for instance, today I was in Bonifacio, which is, you know, towards the southern tip of Corsica is an absolutely beautiful old city with a citadel essentially on the top of a mountain.
[10:39.310 --> 10:41.850]  And, you know, you have to pay for parking everywhere.
[10:42.010 --> 10:43.550]  I mean, space is at such a premium, right?
[10:43.550 --> 10:45.770]  You always constantly have to pay for parking.
[10:46.190 --> 10:55.430]  And so we were running down to do this boat tour thing, my son and I, and trying to get out of this parking lot, go have the ticket, go to pay on the way out.
[10:55.790 --> 11:06.590]  And then we realized at the point at which you would ordinarily pay for the parking, there was a message in French telling you that you had to go to the cashier first and pay for parking.
[11:06.590 --> 11:12.290]  And meanwhile, there's a long line of cars that has lined up behind you in order to try to get out of this exit.
[11:12.650 --> 11:16.950]  So, you know, you put your car in reverse and then everybody has to go in reverse now.
[11:17.350 --> 11:19.790]  Nobody was happy with me at that point.
[11:19.810 --> 11:23.830]  I had no idea you were supposed to pay for the parking before you actually left.
[11:24.210 --> 11:34.310]  And then, you know, I went and paid for the parking, lined up to get out with my now validated ticket that I could use to exit the parking lot.
[11:35.070 --> 11:39.490]  And as I was doing that, about three people in front of me also made the same mistake.
[11:39.670 --> 11:42.810]  And then everybody had to go back out again and go into reverse.
[11:43.090 --> 11:49.010]  And it was just the most idiotic system for paying for parking that I have ever seen in my entire life.
[11:49.450 --> 11:53.850]  And people were very angry and not, it was just very inefficient.
[11:54.050 --> 12:01.310]  But I think, you know, maybe the lesson here is that, you know, people around the world are just angry with inefficiency and we need some change.
[12:01.770 --> 12:02.230]  Wings.
[12:03.330 --> 12:04.050]  Hot Wings.
[12:04.130 --> 12:04.250]  Wait.
[12:04.570 --> 12:04.690]  Yeah.
[12:04.890 --> 12:05.590]  Hot Wings.
[12:06.230 --> 12:07.410]  Super Bowl Sunday.
[12:08.330 --> 12:12.370]  Placing an order two days in advance so that you'd have them in time for the big game.
[12:12.550 --> 12:21.850]  And then you show up at the place and the place that sells the wings scheduled everybody for the same time instead of staggering them.
[12:21.990 --> 12:27.930]  So you had something like 75 people showing up trying to get wings at the same time and get back in time for the big game.
[12:27.930 --> 12:30.770]  That is something I went through last January.
[12:31.090 --> 12:31.930]  I don't care about the game.
[12:32.010 --> 12:32.790]  Don't even remember who played.
[12:32.950 --> 12:34.270]  But it was wintertime.
[12:34.270 --> 12:35.270]  It was cold outside.
[12:35.530 --> 12:37.690]  Everybody was out there and nobody was angry.
[12:38.130 --> 12:39.550]  Everybody took care of each other.
[12:39.770 --> 12:41.050]  We shared jokes.
[12:41.230 --> 12:44.850]  And these are people that I probably disagree with on every political issue ever invented.
[12:45.350 --> 12:46.970]  That is an example of patience.
[12:47.310 --> 12:50.670]  So you see, Alex, it doesn't just happen when you travel overseas.
[12:50.670 --> 12:52.730]  It can happen right in your own backyard.
[12:53.190 --> 12:55.250]  The more you know, the more you know.
[12:58.150 --> 13:02.770]  Associated with what it does about the individual people.
[13:02.890 --> 13:04.490]  I mean, who knows there?
[13:04.810 --> 13:06.030]  I will tell you this, too.
[13:06.210 --> 13:08.190]  I'm on a property at the moment.
[13:08.550 --> 13:10.330]  It's absolutely gorgeous.
[13:10.330 --> 13:13.150]  It feels almost kind of, you know, deserted in a lot of ways.
[13:13.150 --> 13:20.170]  Except we have an electric fence around the property that turns on at 10.30 p.m.
[13:20.490 --> 13:20.990]  every day.
[13:21.230 --> 13:23.910]  And then turns off at around 6.30 p.m.
[13:23.910 --> 13:25.530]  I haven't touched this electric fence.
[13:25.870 --> 13:27.050]  But can you figure out...
[13:27.050 --> 13:29.710]  Can you imagine why we have an electric fence around the property?
[13:29.710 --> 13:33.470]  To keep you in some place they want to know where you are.
[13:34.230 --> 13:36.190]  Or to keep other things out, right?
[13:36.250 --> 13:39.170]  Is there some kind of wild dog they have to keep track of?
[13:39.170 --> 13:39.550]  Or...
[13:39.550 --> 13:41.190]  Is this a form of child care?
[13:42.290 --> 13:42.950]  It's just...
[13:42.950 --> 13:44.430]  I don't know these days.
[13:44.710 --> 13:45.730]  Wait, let's get to...
[13:45.730 --> 13:47.830]  There's an electric fence around the property.
[13:48.950 --> 13:49.750]  What happens...
[13:49.750 --> 13:52.370]  I mean, they must tell you what the electric fence is.
[13:52.470 --> 13:54.370]  If you touch it, you die, or something like that.
[13:54.470 --> 13:55.150]  Would they tell you that?
[13:55.990 --> 13:57.650]  Yeah, I mean, they tell you not to touch it.
[13:57.710 --> 13:58.350]  Don't touch it.
[13:58.470 --> 13:58.590]  Okay.
[13:59.070 --> 14:00.130]  During those hours, yeah.
[14:00.550 --> 14:04.670]  I've offered my friends staying with me in the house here lots of money to touch it.
[14:04.930 --> 14:08.530]  Why would you want to touch the fence electrified or not electrified?
[14:08.530 --> 14:09.830]  Wouldn't you just walk through a door?
[14:11.310 --> 14:12.210]  Yeah, yeah.
[14:12.490 --> 14:14.250]  That would be the best way to do it.
[14:14.430 --> 14:17.410]  But this electrified fence, you mentioned wild dogs.
[14:17.530 --> 14:19.410]  It actually used to keep out wild boars.
[14:19.930 --> 14:22.310]  You have wild boars in your neighborhood?
[14:23.210 --> 14:23.430]  Yeah.
[14:23.430 --> 14:26.110]  And the wild boars are only around at a certain time?
[14:27.210 --> 14:31.310]  Well, no, they can come around during the day, too, I would presume.
[14:31.310 --> 14:32.230]  But I think it's...
[14:32.230 --> 14:34.350]  I think they're worse at night for some reason.
[14:35.150 --> 14:35.550]  Okay.
[14:35.670 --> 14:36.630]  Well, I think wild boars...
[14:36.630 --> 14:37.430]  I don't really...
[14:37.430 --> 14:39.270]  Yeah, I don't really understand it either, but...
[14:39.270 --> 14:40.510]  It'd be bad any time, I think.
[14:41.370 --> 14:41.670]  Yeah.
[14:41.670 --> 14:42.330]  Well, okay.
[14:43.250 --> 14:44.450]  Have you seen a wild boar?
[14:45.350 --> 14:46.470]  Yeah, we saw one.
[14:46.570 --> 14:47.670]  We saw one wild boar.
[14:48.150 --> 14:49.530]  And it was pretty massive.
[14:49.810 --> 14:55.370]  I mean, it looked like it could do some significant damage, so I can understand why that fence is electrified.
[14:56.710 --> 15:00.170]  Okay, well, you're having an interesting time out there.
[15:00.250 --> 15:00.850]  Yeah, it's good.
[15:01.170 --> 15:02.910]  I'll tell you, it's absolutely great.
[15:03.170 --> 15:06.010]  I've not been here, and I'm a big fan of this part of the world.
[15:06.750 --> 15:15.290]  We're about 12 kilometers away from Sardinia earlier today, and that's another island in this...
[15:16.310 --> 15:24.250]  Sardinia is Italian, Corsica is French, but Corsica used to be Italian, so there's a lot of Italian culture and heritage here.
[15:24.490 --> 15:32.970]  And one of the things that I found very fascinating about Corsicans is that they have a lot of animosity towards the mainland French as well.
[15:32.970 --> 15:46.790]  And the language here is that they speak as French, but they also have a Corsican version of French that seems to have a lot of use in the words.
[15:47.430 --> 15:57.910]  And as you drive around the island, you see that there's very often the French version of a sign, and then underneath it, the Corsican version, so kind of the local language.
[15:57.910 --> 16:15.230]  And they don't like France, or certain people don't like France to such an extent that they have spray-painted over the French version of a lot of the words and the signs, and just left the Corsican version, which I thought was very kind of cool in a lot of ways.
[16:15.230 --> 16:28.190]  This could explain... Occasionally I've seen a foreign film on TV that seems to be in French, but it has French subtitles, so maybe it was in Corsican, and they were giving French subtitles for the French speakers.
[16:29.250 --> 16:31.050]  Yeah, it's quite possible.
[16:31.310 --> 16:33.850]  And a lot of the words look very, very different.
[16:33.990 --> 16:40.650]  They're somewhat Italian-looking in origin and root, and a lot of them end in U for some reason.
[16:40.650 --> 16:48.090]  And Corsica also, by the way, and it goes back to the Carthaginian Empire, and it's where Napoleon was born.
[16:48.230 --> 16:56.350]  So we were at Napoleon's house, you know, not in Ajaxu, not too far from here, a couple of days ago.
[16:56.730 --> 17:05.470]  So some pretty cool stuff, I have to say, and I would recommend any of our listeners who would ever want to explore this bit of the world to really consider Corsica.
[17:05.710 --> 17:07.070]  It's a pretty fascinating place.
[17:07.570 --> 17:14.630]  All right, well, now that we've gotten that out of the way, this update, we have upgraded a little bit.
[17:14.950 --> 17:19.110]  Kyle has been working hard on the studio, our studio out here, the remote studio.
[17:19.890 --> 17:23.430]  And I am happy to say that we are now in stereo.
[17:24.050 --> 17:28.910]  That means I'm in the... I should be in the left channel now, and Kyle, I think you're in the right channel?
[17:29.350 --> 17:30.610]  No, I'm in the left channel.
[17:30.710 --> 17:31.430]  You're in the left channel.
[17:31.770 --> 17:32.790]  How are you in the left channel?
[17:32.850 --> 17:34.990]  No, it says right here you're in the right channel.
[17:34.990 --> 17:38.410]  Okay, it might still be backwards, or your headphones might be backwards.
[17:38.750 --> 17:39.890]  Yeah, my headphones are backwards.
[17:40.070 --> 17:41.730]  Yeah, it helps if you turn your speakers.
[17:41.850 --> 17:47.270]  If you take one speaker and put it on the other side of the room, and then take the other speaker and put it on the... and that'll correct it.
[17:47.510 --> 17:54.610]  So if you're listening to us on the radio, you should hear us in different parts of your head.
[17:54.950 --> 17:55.570]  All over.
[17:55.790 --> 17:55.950]  Yeah.
[17:56.610 --> 17:59.550]  But we're not going to do that whole show because it kind of drives you...
[17:59.550 --> 18:03.650]  And I don't think folks out there in Skyplan, I don't think you can hear this, can you?
[18:04.470 --> 18:09.790]  We cannot hear stereo over Skype, but I can take your word for it that we're going over the airwaves that way.
[18:10.130 --> 18:11.410]  Is Skype not stereo at all?
[18:11.510 --> 18:12.550]  Skype is mono.
[18:12.730 --> 18:13.010]  Really?
[18:13.250 --> 18:13.470]  Wow.
[18:13.850 --> 18:15.910]  Their feed is mono.
[18:16.070 --> 18:17.070]  How, 1950s?
[18:17.190 --> 18:18.790]  I had to trade some things around.
[18:18.930 --> 18:19.590]  Uh-huh, okay.
[18:19.750 --> 18:21.170]  This cost us, okay?
[18:21.630 --> 18:22.550]  Yeah, I'm sure it did.
[18:22.730 --> 18:26.550]  We reserve the right to pan at will.
[18:26.690 --> 18:28.470]  Or just run across the room and go over there.
[18:28.630 --> 18:29.290]  Yeah, absolutely.
[18:29.690 --> 18:31.870]  But we've played with it enough.
[18:32.810 --> 18:37.390]  And this should result in a better quality, better technical quality, at least.
[18:37.470 --> 18:38.630]  I can't speak to the rest of the show.
[18:40.170 --> 18:48.850]  Okay, had we been on last week, we certainly would have been talking about our friend Mudge, who was in the news, as the Twitter whistleblower.
[18:50.110 --> 18:51.670]  You guys heard about this, I think.
[18:52.070 --> 19:02.790]  Twitter's former head of security alleged that the company misled regulators about its poor cybersecurity defenses and its negligence in attempting to root out fake accounts that spread disinformation.
[19:03.310 --> 19:12.910]  That revelation could create serious legal and financial problems for the social media platform, especially in the midst of its battle with Elon Musk.
[19:13.970 --> 19:22.730]  But Peter Zatko, who is known in the hacker world as Mudge, was Twitter's security chief until he was fired earlier this year.
[19:23.490 --> 19:32.510]  The thing is, he was fired, in their words, for not living up to the job or not being effective.
[19:33.170 --> 19:39.070]  If you know Mudge, and many of us do, that is the last thing that I think you could ever say of him.
[19:39.930 --> 19:49.370]  And the fact that he has revealed this information, well, according to a representative of his, this is a last resort for him.
[19:49.750 --> 19:56.550]  He said that Mudge had exhausted all attempts to get his concerns resolved inside the company before his firing in January.
[19:56.550 --> 20:10.190]  Now, among his most serious accusations is that Twitter violated the terms of the 2011 FTC settlement by falsely claiming that it had put stronger measures in place to protect the security and privacy of its users.
[20:10.470 --> 20:22.190]  He also accuses the company of deceptions involving its handling of spam or fake accounts, which, as we all know, is an allegation at the core of Elon Musk's attempt to back out of the Twitter takeover.
[20:22.670 --> 20:26.450]  Now, as I mentioned, Mudge is highly respected.
[20:26.690 --> 20:28.030]  He's a cyber security expert.
[20:28.450 --> 20:30.910]  He first gained prominence in the 1990s.
[20:31.350 --> 20:33.390]  He was part of the Loft.
[20:33.550 --> 20:34.830]  He testified in front of Congress.
[20:34.910 --> 20:46.190]  You might remember he was part of the group that said they could take down the Internet in a half hour if they had the chance to do so, just to wake people up and say, yeah, it's not that secure.
[20:46.250 --> 20:47.270]  It really isn't.
[20:47.270 --> 20:54.170]  Now, Twitter said in a prepared statement a week ago that Mudge was fired for ineffective leadership and poor performance.
[20:54.710 --> 21:05.530]  I don't know what Mudge they're talking about here, but they said the allegations and opportunistic timing appear designed to capture attention and inflict harm on Twitter, its customers, and its shareholders.
[21:05.870 --> 21:13.330]  The company called this complaint a false narrative that is riddled with inconsistencies and inaccuracies and lacks important context.
[21:14.150 --> 21:30.510]  Mudge's attorneys, Deborah Katz and Alexis Ronecker, said Twitter's claim about his poor performance is false and that he repeatedly raised concerns about grossly inadequate information security systems with top executives and Twitter's board of directors.
[21:31.050 --> 21:33.390]  I would bet anything that is why he was fired.
[21:33.770 --> 21:49.810]  The lawyer said that in late 2021, after the board was given whitewashed information about those security problems, Mudge escalated his concerns, clashed with CEO Parig Agarwal and board member Omid Kadistani and was fired two weeks later.
[21:50.210 --> 22:02.110]  The 84-page complaint describes a broken corporate culture at Twitter that lacked effective leadership and where Mudge said top executives practiced deliberate ignorance of pressing problems.
[22:02.330 --> 22:10.190]  His description of Jack Dorsey's leadership style is particularly scathing, considering Jack Dorsey was the guy who brought him in the first place.
[22:10.370 --> 22:20.250]  He described the Twitter founder as extremely disengaged during the last months of his tenure as CEO to the point where he would not even speak during meetings on complex issues facing the company.
[22:20.450 --> 22:31.710]  All of this sounds so believable and understandable too because of where Twitter has gone and how it operates and the ugliness that comes out of it.
[22:31.830 --> 22:37.350]  It all makes sense, but you got to listen to the people, the whistleblowers, the people telling you the emperor has no clothes.
[22:37.610 --> 22:43.170]  And when you punish them instead of listening to them, you wind up living a nightmare.
[22:43.370 --> 22:45.710]  And I think that's what Twitter is going to go through now.
[22:48.230 --> 22:48.710]  Absolutely.
[22:49.070 --> 23:01.690]  I mean, if you look into Mudge's description of the state of things at Twitter, I mean, it's believable if you're familiar with sort of the tech startup, you know, Silicon Valley sort of scene.
[23:01.950 --> 23:14.890]  But it's also like at this point in Twitter's history with the big deal to sell it to someone who should probably not be named because he doesn't need any more free publicity, but he's a very rich person with weird looking cars.
[23:15.330 --> 23:28.950]  And the state of that deal is really in this sort of strange flux at the moment, which would, I think, be very much affected by the situation in Mudge's complaint.
[23:29.750 --> 23:42.230]  We also... I don't think we could see, like, reasons that Mudge would really want to make this sort of thing up and trash his, you know, career over there if this were not the case.
[23:42.610 --> 23:44.810]  I find it all very, very believable.
[23:45.950 --> 24:00.990]  Yeah, again, you know, if you know the guy, and I know many, many people who do know the guy, I know myself, who's been on the radio show, the word honor and integrity, the words honor and integrity always bob up to the top when talking about him.
[24:01.490 --> 24:04.250]  And, you know, the hacker community judges harshly.
[24:04.430 --> 24:14.410]  If there were any question of that, you wouldn't see such near unanimous praising of his abilities, his... basically what he believes in.
[24:15.230 --> 24:18.050]  Not only that, I'm still over here, Ann.
[24:18.070 --> 24:19.510]  I'm sorry, I'm moving back over to this part.
[24:19.510 --> 24:21.690]  And permission to come back to the mid.
[24:22.250 --> 24:22.770]  Whoa.
[24:23.170 --> 24:23.390]  Okay.
[24:24.130 --> 24:24.650]  Okay.
[24:25.570 --> 24:28.170]  Just especially since he's got so much to say.
[24:28.510 --> 24:35.670]  I mean, if he's so ineffectual, you'd think, okay, he'd slink off and, you know, their point would be substantiated.
[24:35.790 --> 24:56.070]  But it kind of seems less justified when he's got all of this stuff to describe and characterize as to the real situation there, plus a whole bunch of things that he relinquished to, like, oversight or, I guess, public officials and so forth.
[24:56.850 --> 24:58.970]  Alex, looks like you have some input here.
[25:00.830 --> 25:01.810]  Yeah, absolutely.
[25:02.610 --> 25:08.270]  This is something I think that's been bubbling over for the last week or so.
[25:08.410 --> 25:09.850]  And I think we'll continue to do so.
[25:09.990 --> 25:16.850]  I think, you know, Rob's right to, you know, to... I'll mention his name, I guess, you know, just because it's easier.
[25:17.050 --> 25:21.050]  But, you know, I think there are going to be clear implications to the Musk deal.
[25:21.250 --> 25:38.490]  You know, we see that that Mudge, I believe, this past weekend was served with a subpoena by Musk's lawyers so that, you know, they're planning on probably trying to elicit some testimony or even possibly obtain some documents and records from Mudge with respect to their own claims.
[25:38.610 --> 25:52.030]  But I think from Twitter's perspective here, what's really concerning to me is that Mudge documented that Twitter might have misled U.S.
[25:52.390 --> 25:52.950]  government regulators.
[25:53.550 --> 26:09.070]  And when you... let's say if that's true, assuming for the second, for the sake of argument, that Mudge's allegations are true and Twitter had misled the FTC and did so knowingly, that's not really a good look for Twitter.
[26:09.250 --> 26:20.890]  And there will be repercussions that if they were not truthful with government regulators and if they were not truthful with their investors, there could be massive repercussions.
[26:21.490 --> 26:28.970]  And as well as if they were untruthful with their advertisers as well, because that's where their revenue is coming from.
[26:29.130 --> 26:32.710]  And this is something that dovetails with Musk's allegations as well.
[26:33.190 --> 26:34.210]  E, were you going to say something?
[26:34.350 --> 26:34.510]  Yeah.
[26:34.690 --> 26:53.350]  Well, it's interesting that you bring that up because in 2011, you might remember there was an FTC complaint which said that Twitter systems were full of highly sensitive data that could allow a hostile government to find precise location data for specific users and target them for violence or arrest.
[26:54.590 --> 27:06.010]  You might recall earlier this month, a former Twitter employee was found guilty in California of passing along sensitive Twitter user data to royal family members in Saudi Arabia in exchange for bribes.
[27:06.870 --> 27:17.350]  Mudge alleged that Twitter knowingly allowed the Indian government to place its agents on the company payroll where they had direct unsupervised access to the company's systems and user data.
[27:17.530 --> 27:33.550]  Twitter was also, according to the FTC complaint, they were heavily reliant on funding by Chinese entities and that there were concerns within Twitter that the company was providing information to those entities that would enable them to learn the identity and sensitive information of Chinese users who secretly use Twitter.
[27:33.690 --> 27:40.930]  So there's a laundry list of potential really, really serious compromising of data.
[27:41.650 --> 27:57.590]  And even if you look at the Elon Musk story that's been developing over the past few months, you see there was a point where he was given full unbridled access to all of the data in Twitter so that he could see for himself just how many accounts were spam accounts or fake accounts,
[27:57.790 --> 28:05.330]  which meant that, you know, by from what I can gather from that, he could basically find that anything about anybody if he chose to.
[28:05.590 --> 28:09.430]  And I understand within Twitter, a lot of people have that ability.
[28:09.570 --> 28:10.930]  And that is scary.
[28:11.110 --> 28:17.530]  It should scare all of us because of the private information that many of us trust with Twitter.
[28:17.690 --> 28:24.790]  I mean, there are people who communicate with direct messaging thinking that that's completely safe and secure.
[28:25.490 --> 28:26.230]  Trusting Twitter.
[28:26.510 --> 28:28.410]  And it's not.
[28:28.550 --> 28:29.370]  It really is not.
[28:29.370 --> 28:35.390]  And all sorts of other information is oftentimes entrusted to them that could very well be abused.
[28:37.270 --> 28:43.250]  Yeah, I think, look, there's... I think you're right about this in a lot of ways.
[28:43.330 --> 28:58.630]  And I think if you combine so many of the points that Mudge made in his disclosures, and I think it's important to note, he made these disclosures, I believe it was to the SEC, to the FTC, and then to certain members of Congress.
[28:59.190 --> 29:12.830]  And then it was through certain members of Congress that had disclosed the report over to the Washington Post that originated the first stories about Mudge and his whistleblowing with regard to Twitter.
[29:12.990 --> 29:36.910]  But if you combine all these points together, for instance, the fact that Twitter might not have been utilizing something that we call in the cybersecurity community least privilege, which is making sure that users only have the privileges that they need to have in order to do their jobs and essentially granting access willy-nilly to large-scale production environments that Mudge alleged in his
[29:36.910 --> 29:48.490]  report is you combine that with a lack of patch systems and is some kind of central vulnerability management that you would expect an organization like Twitter to have.
[29:48.750 --> 30:01.050]  And on top of that, the fact that they might have turned a blind eye to the fact that there are foreign nationals working for foreign powers that may be on their payroll.
[30:01.550 --> 30:11.190]  And you have a perfect storm, you know, for human rights abuses, like you had just described in the manual, to take place, you know, where people can be identified.
[30:11.470 --> 30:17.950]  Dissidents may be able to be identified by government agents essentially on the payroll of Twitter.
[30:18.350 --> 30:38.910]  And Twitter, and I think this was central to Mudge's motivation here, not only in the disclosures, but from what I understand to be his reasoning for going over to Twitter in the first place, was that he saw it to be a platform that was central to the functioning of not only American democracy,
[30:39.110 --> 30:40.610]  but democracies around the world.
[30:41.010 --> 30:47.910]  And that making that a safer and more secure space was certainly worth his time and his effort.
[30:47.910 --> 30:53.910]  And so when he was pushed out for trying to do that, that's why I think he resorted to the whistleblowing.
[30:54.110 --> 31:02.290]  But, you know, we have talked about this so many times about the centrality of Twitter and the debates that happen on it.
[31:02.350 --> 31:10.530]  And if you think about the fact that, you know, our prior president, which, you know, maybe we'll talk about him a little bit later tonight, too.
[31:10.710 --> 31:18.510]  But our prior president was having discussions with other nuclear powers on this crazy platform.
[31:18.790 --> 31:21.390]  I mean, there's so much that happens on it.
[31:21.510 --> 31:30.490]  It has become this thing for which it was not actually intended to be this thing for which it, you know, it wasn't originally intended to be created.
[31:30.490 --> 31:52.710]  But this this area and this platform for discourse between nations and citizens and peoples, that it has a place of importance in our society that I think nobody really thought about, let's say, to 15 years or so, we know we wouldn't have really imagined that Twitter would be what it was today.
[31:53.110 --> 32:01.910]  And so the the idea that it has these glaring security holes that people are just trying to brush under the rug is is really concerning.
[32:02.270 --> 32:10.950]  I think you might want to listen to some of our earlier radio shows, some of which you were on, where we're always warning people about things like this, because the thing is, Twitter is a tool.
[32:11.150 --> 32:13.510]  You know, it's not it's not a tool to bolster democracy.
[32:13.510 --> 32:14.310]  It's a tool.
[32:14.430 --> 32:17.530]  It can be used to bolster democracy can also be used to tear it down.
[32:17.670 --> 32:18.450]  We've seen both.
[32:18.970 --> 32:29.330]  And unless you have governance within the organization that is strongly behind one of those concepts, it's going to be used and abused by everybody to their heart's content.
[32:29.330 --> 32:31.010]  And that is what we are seeing now.
[32:31.130 --> 32:33.610]  And I think that's what Mudge is speaking to.
[32:34.330 --> 32:35.310]  Kyle, you had something.
[32:35.850 --> 32:49.090]  Yeah, we have to stop talking and thinking about new platforms like this and technologies in only the most glowing altruistic terms to boost interest and sales.
[32:49.430 --> 32:58.730]  That's tempting in terms of making something viable or introducing it and getting some some support for it.
[32:58.850 --> 33:08.710]  But we tend to kind of only want to continue to think about it in those altruistic sort of salesy glowing terms.
[33:08.730 --> 33:14.050]  I just see this this repeat of presenting something.
[33:14.370 --> 33:21.970]  And then, you know, like with people on the side or who are interested in something might comment on it.
[33:22.150 --> 33:41.610]  But the the lion's share of the attitudes towards it are that this is the best new type of phone or this is the best new type of service or something that you just sort of have to accept only in the ways that it's characterized to sell it, which are inherently all positive things,
[33:41.790 --> 33:41.850]  right?
[33:41.970 --> 33:43.170]  All the great features.
[33:43.370 --> 33:51.130]  And we never really absorb and internalize the bugs that we are absolutely going to encounter.
[33:51.310 --> 33:54.170]  And people like us keep saying it over and over again.
[33:54.310 --> 33:59.730]  And it's just it's like a running joke that, you know, it comes out, something goes wrong.
[33:59.730 --> 34:01.950]  And here we come with a story about it.
[34:02.070 --> 34:05.830]  It's like the abuse is is a very common thing.
[34:06.010 --> 34:12.250]  Yet every time something comes comes comes comes at us, it's presented as though it's it's a game changer.
[34:12.430 --> 34:13.310]  It's it's life changing.
[34:13.470 --> 34:14.770]  It's going to do nothing but good.
[34:15.870 --> 34:16.390]  Alex.
[34:19.370 --> 34:23.210]  Yeah, I agree with you on on that front, Kyle.
[34:23.550 --> 34:33.810]  And, you know, the other thing, I think there's going to be some some unintentional consequences of of Mudge's disclosures here, too.
[34:33.950 --> 34:41.390]  And that, you know, we're we're realizing now as well that, you know, every every single one of these platforms has its issues, right?
[34:41.570 --> 34:54.150]  You know, things that historical problems that we can point to, you know, you've got tick tock being, you know, beholden to China and in lots of ways and many concerns about, you know, its data flows over the last weeks and months.
[34:54.430 --> 35:04.010]  You've got, you know, Facebook, which has a number of woes associated with it going back to the 2016 election in Cambridge Analytica and election interference.
[35:04.290 --> 35:07.730]  You also have that happening, I think, you know, to a certain extent on Twitter.
[35:07.870 --> 35:14.010]  Now you have these blaring security holes that are well documented by a highly respected member of our community.
[35:14.770 --> 35:29.150]  And it makes you wonder, you know, what platform is out there that hasn't been abused and misused in some way and to such an extent that, you know, we now have to question whether or not, you know, we can trust it with our data.
[35:29.850 --> 35:34.390]  And so that's going to have, I think, some spillover effect in Congress.
[35:34.650 --> 35:45.930]  And there has been a push, finally, for some overarching and overhauling of, you know, the federal government stance when it comes to privacy and data protection.
[35:46.250 --> 35:56.270]  And I think that Mudge's disclosures here are going to be pushing Congress to be in a position of having much more oversight over these particular platforms.
[35:56.490 --> 36:03.110]  And I think we'll have a major impact on this overarching federal privacy legislation that we see on the horizon.
[36:03.350 --> 36:09.510]  But Alex, do you think the bozos in Congress have any better grasp of privacy and security than people in the industry?
[36:10.570 --> 36:12.910]  Yeah, I do, to a certain extent.
[36:13.590 --> 36:16.770]  Some of them are, you know, right up on there.
[36:16.850 --> 36:19.070]  I mean, you know, we always talk about Senator Ron Wyden.
[36:19.070 --> 36:23.010]  He is, I think, you know, at the top.
[36:23.230 --> 36:24.910]  Okay, but I counted that with Ted Cruz.
[36:25.170 --> 36:25.910]  Now, what are you going to do?
[36:26.350 --> 36:26.770]  You know?
[36:27.850 --> 36:28.390]  That's true.
[36:28.470 --> 36:30.110]  Look, I mean, so many idiots out there.
[36:30.290 --> 36:35.570]  And I just I have a problem trusting them with anything, despite the number of good people that are out there.
[36:36.430 --> 36:43.950]  You know, look, you know, it's not always just about the individual senators or the members of Congress themselves.
[36:44.270 --> 36:53.230]  There's a an army of staffers that work for them, that generally, and I think for the most part, in many instances, are often smarter than that.
[36:53.610 --> 37:02.910]  And these these staffers are young people that are paying attention to this, and they're getting it and are feeding, hopefully, the right information to these representatives.
[37:03.170 --> 37:07.530]  But if they're still beholden to other interests, you know, that that's what I'm worried about.
[37:07.750 --> 37:10.670]  You know, who is it that's that's sending them checks and making donations?
[37:11.630 --> 37:12.550]  Yeah, no, no doubt.
[37:12.650 --> 37:13.570]  I think I think that's true.
[37:13.590 --> 37:17.630]  But I do think that you'll have people leading the charge people like Senator Ron Wyden.
[37:17.870 --> 37:20.210]  I think that we can You need a second one.
[37:20.330 --> 37:22.430]  You need somebody else in addition to him.
[37:22.570 --> 37:22.850]  Yeah, that's true.
[37:23.490 --> 37:23.830]  Yeah.
[37:24.190 --> 37:28.590]  Well, you know, it's hard to come up with somebody, but I think he's on that level.
[37:29.130 --> 37:33.050]  But but it's going to have an effect, you know, there will be an effect.
[37:33.190 --> 37:36.210]  And it may not also be just at the at the federal level.
[37:36.510 --> 37:52.830]  I think that this is going to give an incentive to lots of other state legislatures to come and bring the hammer down, perhaps on these on these massive social media platforms and perhaps regulate their data more at a state level than they had seen before,
[37:53.050 --> 38:05.050]  which is certainly not what these platforms want, because the the patchwork of legislation that we have when it comes to privacy and data protection in the United States is kind of all over the map from from from state to state.
[38:05.210 --> 38:07.590]  And you have to regulate according to the lowest common denominator.
[38:07.870 --> 38:14.490]  And so they're hoping for some kind of overarching federal legislation to come through that would make their lives easier.
[38:14.790 --> 38:24.510]  And if we if this results in an additional layer of patchwork legislation at the state level, it's just going to make their lives much, much more difficult.
[38:25.170 --> 38:32.770]  I think the states can be sort of like labs for this and often end up being, you know, trying things out, seeing how some of that stuff works.
[38:32.890 --> 38:51.810]  And the effect I think that you're speaking to and I'm hearing in this is I don't know what Robert Gila might might have to say, but it's this organizing effect that a voice like Mudge, somebody who gets it and has a real passion for making things right or getting them functioning in a way that is safer is better for the people using those things.
[38:52.030 --> 39:03.990]  So I think the organizing effect is that the the things that can be twisted around and kind of go veer off input on for political ends.
[39:04.210 --> 39:18.330]  I think those things can be separated out, or at least that organization can make going off with some detail for a political reason, less tempting for those political actors involved.
[39:18.530 --> 39:25.830]  And I think that the job, everybody has a job being involved in in really making sense of these big stories.
[39:26.190 --> 39:37.150]  And as you said, that sort of underlying will and desire to get privacy and some of the updates we need on the books.
[39:37.310 --> 39:54.810]  So anyway, I think that the political actors involved do have a role to play, but it's a lot more about about finding coalition and and communicating that effectively to get to gain support, showing things like bipartisan support, that kind of stuff.
[39:54.990 --> 39:59.730]  But their understandings of it should be somewhat detailed.
[39:59.910 --> 40:11.670]  But I think they oftentimes bite off more than they they can really speak to without interpretation from from experts or from staffers, as Alex mentioned.
[40:11.890 --> 40:14.630]  So it is definitely coalescing.
[40:14.710 --> 40:21.770]  It seems like this is all the pieces of really breaking all of this down.
[40:21.770 --> 40:36.090]  And voices like Mudge, who've got experience and want to say something about it, may be able to really help define what what are the pieces at play here?
[40:36.250 --> 40:38.210]  How do they how do they work?
[40:38.350 --> 40:39.650]  You know, what what what are the risks?
[40:39.890 --> 40:50.170]  All of that kind of assessment, I think we could have a better understanding of after having learned so much about what's going on at Twitter.
[40:50.170 --> 40:50.170]  Sure.
[40:50.310 --> 40:57.550]  Look, I think, you know, the the evidence is in that data is not being securely kept.
[40:57.590 --> 40:59.390]  We can't trust these entities.
[40:59.690 --> 41:11.910]  And we just need to adjust our behavior to take that into account where our lives are not an open book on their platforms, where every little detail is not something that we are storing on one particular system.
[41:12.570 --> 41:25.450]  And that we do our bit to try and and muddy the waters a little, you know, you don't have to have every bit of information about your personal life anywhere.
[41:25.530 --> 41:27.710]  You really don't except in your head.
[41:28.410 --> 41:31.530]  And you can you can use different identities.
[41:32.390 --> 41:36.210]  You don't have to give out specific locations, you can speak in code.
[41:36.410 --> 41:38.090]  Hey, it's fun to learn these things.
[41:38.210 --> 41:48.790]  Believe me, it's, it's just assume that when you are using a system that is not a system that you are running yourself, that it's being looked at by hostile entities.
[41:49.310 --> 41:50.530]  And I think that's a problem.
[41:50.670 --> 41:51.610]  We haven't been doing that.
[41:51.710 --> 41:52.790]  We've been too trusting.
[41:53.230 --> 41:57.570]  And it doesn't mean you have to be negative, doesn't mean you have to assume everyone's out to get you.
[41:57.690 --> 41:59.090]  It's it's a mental challenge.
[41:59.330 --> 42:06.730]  It means just looking out, making sure that you lock the door behind you, you know, you turn the oven off, that kind of thing.
[42:07.050 --> 42:10.490]  You just got to be careful with your personal data.
[42:10.490 --> 42:15.050]  And if everybody just acted that way, didn't take Twitter so damn seriously.
[42:15.350 --> 42:18.530]  I mean, there should not be official government statements made on Twitter ever.
[42:19.070 --> 42:31.910]  It's I don't, I don't take it seriously enough for that to happen, you know, and, and by the same token, if somebody hacks into some officials Twitter account and says something funny, they shouldn't go to jail for that.
[42:32.110 --> 42:34.770]  It's a prank, you know, don't take it so seriously.
[42:35.490 --> 42:56.570]  We have the means, we have the capability of, of communicating with people on official levels that are believable, that are able to be backed up by, uh, uh, by all sorts of, um, um, uh, just ways of knowing that you're, you're, you're, you're actually listening to somebody who is who they say they are.
[42:56.750 --> 42:58.330]  Uh, but it's not Twitter.
[42:58.470 --> 42:59.150]  It's not Facebook.
[42:59.370 --> 42:59.950]  It's not TikTok.
[43:00.230 --> 43:00.930]  That's for damn sure.
[43:03.030 --> 43:15.390]  Well, and, and speaking of official channels of communication and governmental interactions, I, I, I think the evidence actually is not already in, uh, Emmanuel.
[43:15.630 --> 43:23.130]  I think, um, you know, we're going to hear a lot more from Mudge because he has been called to testify again before Congress.
[43:23.310 --> 43:30.430]  And I think he's going to be testifying before the Senate Judiciary Committee on September 13th.
[43:30.430 --> 43:37.450]  So, uh, in just about two weeks, you know, we probably will hear more and we'll be talking more about that particular testimony.
[43:37.450 --> 43:52.450]  And what I find really fascinating about this whole story too, is that, you know, number one, it is being propelled by the platform itself that is being criticized as well, which is really kind of fascinating.
[43:52.450 --> 44:09.790]  If you think about it, um, you know, the, the story breaks, it gets onto Twitter, it gets this momentum and Twitter's response here, which seemed to be the, the kind of pre-canned corporate response, which is to, to claim that the employee was fired for some kind of,
[44:09.890 --> 44:19.890]  um, um, you know, uh, derogatory or, uh, behavior or, or some kind of, you know, deficient leadership practice, et cetera, et cetera.
[44:19.890 --> 44:20.370]  Performance.
[44:20.630 --> 44:23.510]  Uh, performance-based nonsense, right?
[44:23.890 --> 44:36.230]  You know, it's, it's always, you know, now the, the, the person was, was terminated because of performance-based issues and, and now they're grinding this particular axe, um, uh, you know, that they have, uh, against the company.
[44:37.090 --> 44:53.290]  Um, and the, the, what, what came out against it, the contrary notions, uh, and, and ideas that all spread on Twitter, you know, and it was through the, the hacker community and information security, cyber security community, where they came out and said,
[44:53.350 --> 45:07.210]  you know, no, no, no, no, no, no, this doesn't fit your pre-canned corporate response, essentially to, to blame the messenger here for having an axe to grind, is not going to work because Mudge is somebody that's, that's so highly respected in our community and known to,
[45:07.330 --> 45:10.910]  to so many to have, you know, really unimpeachable integrity.
[45:11.370 --> 45:25.050]  And it was that, that notion that spread through Twitter itself to come through that I, I thought particularly, um, ironic, but I'm really curious as to what his testimony is going to be before Congress and in a couple of weeks, what they're going to ask him.
[45:25.270 --> 45:42.470]  And I think if I were to guess, they were going to be focusing particularly on this notion of hostile foreign nations having access to Twitter and the types of influence operations that they may be able to get away with because of those lax security concerns that,
[45:42.470 --> 45:43.370]  that Mudge had identified.
[45:43.650 --> 45:46.570]  So certainly a hell of a lot more to come on this space.
[45:46.710 --> 45:49.890]  Well, hopefully that'll be on C-SPAN because that's, that sounds like it'll be riveting.
[45:50.250 --> 45:52.550]  Uh, you say that's on the 13th of September?
[45:53.670 --> 45:54.850]  I think that's correct.
[45:55.010 --> 45:55.570]  I think that's correct.
[45:55.690 --> 46:02.590]  I mean, it's, it, all this is obviously subject to, to, to being moved, but I, I believe it's, it's on the 13th.
[46:02.650 --> 46:09.030]  Because, uh, Mudge got a subpoena from Elon Musk, as you mentioned earlier, and, um, he's due to be deposed on the 9th of September.
[46:09.030 --> 46:10.290]  So it's going to be a busy week.
[46:10.290 --> 46:13.870]  Well, it's, uh, one trip, you know, how do you know Musk is in DC?
[46:14.550 --> 46:16.090]  Oh, why, why wouldn't it be?
[46:16.150 --> 46:16.830]  He could be in space.
[46:16.950 --> 46:17.630]  You don't know where he is.
[46:18.150 --> 46:20.690]  Oh, I don't know if he's, uh, he's going to be a part of it.
[46:20.750 --> 46:22.050]  I think it's just a bunch of, uh, attorneys and stuff.
[46:22.050 --> 46:22.290]  Oh, okay.
[46:22.330 --> 46:22.570]  That's true.
[46:23.130 --> 46:24.830]  You know, you know, he wants to be a part of it.
[46:25.010 --> 46:25.510]  I don't know.
[46:25.590 --> 46:28.470]  Where are they testifying that the space thing or the Twitter?
[46:28.590 --> 46:29.370]  No, it's a Twitter thing.
[46:29.730 --> 46:31.690]  Polar opposites, Musk and Mudge.
[46:31.910 --> 46:32.890]  So is it polar opposites?
[46:32.890 --> 46:33.690]  It's in California?
[46:33.970 --> 46:34.470]  I don't know.
[46:34.590 --> 46:35.030]  I don't care.
[46:35.470 --> 46:36.210]  It doesn't matter.
[46:36.510 --> 46:36.750]  Delaware?
[46:36.950 --> 46:37.710]  No, Delaware.
[46:38.050 --> 46:38.170]  Yeah.
[46:38.330 --> 46:38.630]  Delaware.
[46:39.290 --> 46:39.610]  Yeah.
[46:39.850 --> 46:40.170]  Yeah.
[46:40.270 --> 46:49.490]  The, the, the, the must battle with Twitter that's happening in the Delaware Chancery Court, but he can be deposed anywhere, but, um, look, you know, Delaware is not too far from DC.
[46:51.070 --> 46:52.610]  Hey, uh, we're almost out of time.
[46:52.770 --> 46:54.690]  We are going to be on overtime, uh, later.
[46:54.810 --> 46:59.290]  I think Alex, you're, you're, you're going to, you're going to bail for overtime, not even for the first few minutes.
[47:00.630 --> 47:02.310]  Uh, maybe I'll hang out for the first few minutes.
[47:02.330 --> 47:02.910]  I guilted him to that.
[47:03.010 --> 47:03.390]  Okay, great.
[47:03.870 --> 47:05.830]  So that'll be, that'll be at eight o'clock on YouTube.
[47:05.950 --> 47:11.850]  Just check the link at 2600.com on the top of the page, or just go to channel 2600 on YouTube at eight o'clock.
[47:12.010 --> 47:13.490]  You can call us, talk to us, that kind of thing.
[47:13.730 --> 47:19.030]  Uh, but I wanted to read a letter that we got from one of our listeners because it has to do with something we talked about a few weeks ago.
[47:19.190 --> 47:26.210]  That was, um, uh, the offense that, uh, uh, Gila perpetrated on the Apple community by saying that she could not, uh, download MP3s.
[47:26.290 --> 47:29.270]  Uh, this is from, uh, uh, lobsterminator.
[47:29.430 --> 47:30.110]  I think that's how you say it.
[47:30.430 --> 47:32.730]  Uh, we read his letter the first time or her letter.
[47:33.290 --> 47:34.050]  Um, hi again.
[47:34.210 --> 47:38.510]  I did not mean for the email to be, to be quite an angry tone as you read it.
[47:38.590 --> 47:42.490]  Uh, let me just say, uh, you have nothing to apologize for.
[47:42.850 --> 47:47.010]  That was entirely dramatic, um, interpretation that we took on ourselves.
[47:47.290 --> 47:50.150]  And, uh, we're sorry if it caused you any grief or confusion.
[47:50.390 --> 47:52.390]  Did not mean for that to be the case at all.
[47:52.990 --> 47:55.370]  Unlike some world leaders, I don't hesitate to admit my mistakes.
[47:55.470 --> 47:57.330]  I apologize for the perceived aggression.
[47:57.530 --> 47:59.610]  No, again, you have nothing to apologize for.
[47:59.950 --> 48:01.070]  That was all on us.
[48:01.150 --> 48:01.670]  We did that.
[48:01.950 --> 48:07.510]  Um, you were simply pointing out, um, a difference of opinion on, on a technical issue, which is completely valid.
[48:07.670 --> 48:08.750]  Uh, continuing here.
[48:08.810 --> 48:12.250]  I just felt that you should adhere to accuracy as you do with most subjects.
[48:12.690 --> 48:16.810]  So I felt frustrated when nobody in a hacker radio show knew how to use Apple computers.
[48:17.370 --> 48:19.550]  I've been listening to the off the hook archive from the beginning.
[48:19.690 --> 48:21.350]  You used to talk about breaking the phone systems.
[48:21.450 --> 48:23.070]  Now none of you can transfer music to a phone.
[48:23.630 --> 48:28.030]  See, I'm taking on the angry tone again, even though you haven't gotten to the all caps part yet.
[48:28.490 --> 48:29.910]  It's like, it's incredulous.
[48:30.170 --> 48:33.050]  There's no all caps part, but yeah, I, I love you.
[48:33.150 --> 48:35.870]  Even if I sounded like an a-hole, I may have sounded like one again.
[48:37.310 --> 48:37.830]  Oh boy.
[48:37.890 --> 48:40.770]  And as a token of goodwill, I became a WBAI buddy on behalf of off the hook.
[48:40.870 --> 48:41.290]  Thank you.
[48:41.910 --> 48:42.970]  Uh, lost terminator.
[48:43.150 --> 48:43.970]  I think I'm saying it right.
[48:43.970 --> 48:48.630]  Uh, for, for listening, for donating, for challenging us, just for being there.
[48:48.830 --> 48:49.350]  It matters.
[48:49.670 --> 48:52.110]  And don't ever apologize for, for an opinion.
[48:52.650 --> 48:56.770]  Um, and if you want to become a BAI buddy, you can do so as well.
[48:56.930 --> 48:58.370]  Simply go to the website.
[48:58.730 --> 49:00.810]  Um, I forgot the website.
[49:01.070 --> 49:02.050]  Uh, Rob, help me out here.
[49:03.150 --> 49:05.010]  Give to WBAI.org.
[49:05.150 --> 49:05.570]  That's it.
[49:05.570 --> 49:07.750]  That's the one give to WBAI.org.
[49:07.890 --> 49:13.550]  And so the number two, the number two, give to WBAI.org and you can become a BAI buddy.
[49:13.910 --> 49:15.690]  Say that off the hook is your favorite radio show.
[49:15.870 --> 49:19.250]  And, um, and you can donate every month, whatever amount you, you can afford.
[49:19.830 --> 49:27.230]  Uh, you can also, um, um, go to, uh, or give a call at 212-209-2950, or you can go to WBAI.org as well.
[49:27.350 --> 49:28.250]  I think there's a link there.
[49:28.430 --> 49:33.870]  And we're going to work very hard to, uh, download all the music from iTunes to our phone.
[49:34.270 --> 49:34.670]  Yeah.
[49:35.510 --> 49:37.850]  Well, I use iTunes all the time, but I use it on a PC.
[49:38.090 --> 49:38.890]  I don't use it on a Mac.
[49:39.390 --> 49:39.790]  Yeah.
[49:39.930 --> 49:40.070]  Yeah.
[49:40.070 --> 49:43.890]  You can still make it function right here with, with various versions.
[49:44.590 --> 49:52.670]  Um, there are people that, that, uh, play with this stuff and, and, uh, have all the tricks and tips figured out.
[49:52.830 --> 49:55.430]  So feel free, uh, to, to share those with us.
[49:55.570 --> 49:56.510]  We'll read them on the air.
[49:56.830 --> 50:00.410]  And Gila, since you started this whole controversy, uh, is there anything you'd like to say in closing?
[50:01.030 --> 50:10.730]  I mean, I would, first of all, just like to thank everybody who has reached out to the show to explain to me that all I have to do is use iTunes and it works and it's fine.
[50:11.350 --> 50:12.550]  So thank you all.
[50:12.770 --> 50:14.590]  I don't feel dumb in the least.
[50:15.030 --> 50:25.210]  Um, but on another note, would like to remind everybody that tomorrow is the first day of September, which means that Friday is the first Friday of the month.
[50:25.570 --> 50:33.610]  Find your local 2,600 meeting on the web at 2,600.org.com.
[50:33.810 --> 50:34.070]  Come.
[50:34.430 --> 50:34.730]  Or net.
[50:34.970 --> 50:35.090]  Come.
[50:35.390 --> 50:35.530]  Yeah.
[50:35.730 --> 50:36.050]  Or net.
[50:36.250 --> 50:37.190]  Or all of the above.
[50:37.650 --> 50:38.030]  Or horse.
[50:38.330 --> 50:39.210]  Um, or exactly.
[50:39.250 --> 50:40.070]  Look for the meeting link.
[50:40.610 --> 50:45.490]  Um, big news for the New York city meeting this month is we're going in person only.
[50:46.130 --> 50:46.650]  Okay.
[50:46.870 --> 50:47.090]  Wow.
[50:47.390 --> 50:48.050]  How about that?
[50:48.950 --> 50:49.470]  All right.
[50:49.650 --> 50:52.090]  And attendance is mandatory for everybody listening.
[50:54.410 --> 50:55.470]  Forced socialization.
[50:55.730 --> 50:55.750]  Yeah.
[50:55.750 --> 51:06.530]  Once we said on April Fool's that, uh, there was a dress code at 2,600 meetings and so many people got angry at us while we were just trying to improve the quality of the meetings a little bit, but, uh, it was April 1st.
[51:06.630 --> 51:06.750]  Yeah.
[51:06.810 --> 51:07.930]  We do things like that sometimes.
[51:08.250 --> 51:08.570]  Okay.
[51:08.690 --> 51:10.230]  Folks, uh, we are out of time again.
[51:10.570 --> 51:11.570]  Uh, YouTube at, at eight o'clock.
[51:11.690 --> 51:14.170]  We'll be back again next week at seven o'clock here on WBAI.
[51:14.530 --> 51:17.530]  Write to us O-T-H at 2600.com.
[51:18.010 --> 51:22.530]  And don't forget, never, never, never, never believe the hype.
[51:22.870 --> 51:23.710]  See you next time.
[51:23.810 --> 51:23.970]  Good night.
[51:25.090 --> 51:28.010]  Don't, don't, don't, don't, here's what I want y'all to do for me.
[51:28.150 --> 51:28.590]  Back.
[51:28.910 --> 51:30.650]  Caught you looking for the same thing?
[51:30.810 --> 51:31.770]  It's a new thing.
[51:31.910 --> 51:33.030]  Check out this I bring.
[51:33.190 --> 51:36.390]  Uh-oh, the road below the level cause I'm living low next to the base.
[51:36.530 --> 51:36.850]  Come on!
[51:36.970 --> 51:37.930]  Turn up the radio.
[51:38.250 --> 51:39.650]  They're claiming I'm a criminal.
[51:39.990 --> 51:41.410]  But now I wonder how?
[51:41.690 --> 51:42.870]  Some people never know.
[51:43.210 --> 51:45.110]  The enemy could be the friend's guardian.
[51:45.370 --> 51:46.450]  I'm not a hooligan.
[51:46.670 --> 51:48.790]  I rock the party and clear all the madness.
[51:49.090 --> 51:49.970]  I'm not a racist.
[51:50.370 --> 51:50.950]  Preach the teeth.
[51:51.190 --> 51:52.750]  Cause don't they never had this?
[51:53.050 --> 51:54.070]  Number one.
[51:54.210 --> 51:55.630]  Never wanna run about the gun.
[51:55.790 --> 51:57.570]  I wasn't licensed to have one.
[51:57.910 --> 51:59.850]  The minute they see me, fear me.
[52:00.050 --> 52:00.970]  I'm the epitome.
[52:01.250 --> 52:02.170]  A public enemy.
[52:02.490 --> 52:03.890]  Used abuse without clues.
[52:03.950 --> 52:05.450]  I refuse to blow a fuse.
[52:05.830 --> 52:07.190]  They even had it on the news.
[52:07.330 --> 52:08.450]  Don't believe the hype.
[52:08.870 --> 52:10.990]  Don't, don't, don't believe the hype.
[52:13.010 --> 52:15.830]  Don't, don't, don't believe the hype.
[52:16.830 --> 52:19.430]  Yes, was the start of my last jam.
[52:19.590 --> 52:21.810]  So here it is again, another death jam.
[52:21.970 --> 52:26.610]  But since I gave you all a little something that I knew you lacked, they still consider me a new jack.
[52:26.870 --> 52:29.170]  All the critics, you can hang them, I hold the rope.
[52:29.250 --> 52:31.590]  But they hope to the Pope and pray it ain't dope.
[52:32.070 --> 52:36.610]  The follower of Farrakhan, they'll tell me that you understand until you hear the man.
[52:36.830 --> 52:39.010]  They'll book up the new school rap game.
[52:39.290 --> 52:41.150]  Writers treat me like Coltrane insane.
[52:41.150 --> 52:43.890]  Yes, to them, but to me, I'm a different kind.
[52:44.390 --> 52:46.290]  We're brothers of the same mind, unblind.
[52:46.450 --> 52:48.590]  Caught in the middle end, not surrendering.
[52:48.910 --> 52:51.150]  I don't rhyme for the sake of Ritalin.
[52:51.470 --> 52:52.910]  So claim that I'm a smuggler.
[52:53.270 --> 52:54.690]  Some say I never heard of ya.
[52:55.050 --> 52:55.850]  A rap burglar.
[52:56.270 --> 52:57.030]  False media.
[52:57.290 --> 52:58.490]  We don't need it, do we?
[52:58.730 --> 53:00.190]  It's fake, that's what it be to ya.
[53:00.310 --> 53:00.770]  Dig me?
[53:01.090 --> 53:02.210]  Yo, Terminator X.
[53:02.370 --> 53:05.370]  Step up on the stand and show these people what time it is, boy.
[53:06.050 --> 53:09.530]  Don't, don't, don't, don't, don't believe the hype.
[53:11.170 --> 53:14.410]  Don't, don't, don't, don't, don't believe the hype.
[53:20.810 --> 53:27.590]  Don't believe the hype, it's a sequel.
[53:27.810 --> 53:30.110]  As an equal, can I get this through to you?
[53:30.290 --> 53:32.570]  My 98 booming with a trunk of funk.
[53:32.850 --> 53:34.950]  All the jealous punk can't stop the dunk.
[53:35.550 --> 53:37.490]  Coming from the school of hard knocks.
[53:37.630 --> 53:39.510]  Some perpetrate, it drinks fun.
[53:39.530 --> 53:42.290]  The Xerox attack the black because I know they lack exact.
[53:42.610 --> 53:44.750]  The Colfax, and still they try to Xerox.
[53:45.170 --> 53:47.230]  The leader of the new school, uncool.
[53:47.390 --> 53:49.670]  Never played the fool, just made the rule.
[53:50.030 --> 53:52.170]  Remember there's a need to get alarmed.
[53:52.310 --> 53:54.030]  Again, I said I was a time bomb.
[53:54.510 --> 53:56.950]  In the daytime, radio scared of me.
[53:57.030 --> 53:58.010]  Cause I'm mad.
[53:58.270 --> 53:59.210]  Plus I'm the enemy.
[53:59.430 --> 54:01.870]  They can't come on and play me in prime time.
[54:02.050 --> 54:03.090]  Cause I know the time.
[54:03.210 --> 54:04.310]  Cause I'm getting mine.
[54:04.710 --> 54:06.690]  I get on the mix late in the night.
[54:06.890 --> 54:07.830]  They know I'm living right.
[54:07.870 --> 54:09.130]  So here goes the mic site.
[54:09.530 --> 54:11.590]  Before I let it go, don't rush my show.
[54:11.770 --> 54:13.810]  You try to reach and grab and get elbow.
[54:14.070 --> 54:15.010]  Word to her, yo.
[54:15.250 --> 54:17.530]  If you can't swing this, learn the words.
[54:17.810 --> 54:18.870]  You might sing this.
[54:19.010 --> 54:21.310]  Just a little bit of the taste of the bass for you.
[54:21.470 --> 54:23.710]  As you get up and dance at the LQ.
[54:24.010 --> 54:26.210]  When some deny and defy it, I swing polos.
[54:26.410 --> 54:28.350]  And then it clear the lane, I go solo.
[54:28.350 --> 54:29.770]  The meaning of all the lack.
[54:29.790 --> 54:31.050]  The media is the wax.
[54:31.210 --> 54:33.550]  As you believe it's true, it blows me through the roof.
[54:34.170 --> 54:35.790]  Suckers, liars, give me a shovel.
[54:36.130 --> 54:38.230]  Some writers I know are damn devils.
[54:38.370 --> 54:40.370]  From them I say, don't believe the hype.
[54:40.570 --> 54:42.790]  Yo Chuck, it must be on the pipe, right?
[54:43.130 --> 54:45.610]  Their pens and pads I fetch, cause I've had it.
[54:45.870 --> 54:47.910]  I'm not an addict, fiend, if we're static.
[54:48.250 --> 54:50.490]  I see their taste recorder and I grab it.
[54:50.610 --> 54:52.830]  No you can't have it back, silly rabbit.
[54:52.830 --> 54:56.570]  I'm going to my media assassin, Harry Allen.
[54:56.810 --> 54:58.010]  I gotta ask him.
[54:58.170 --> 55:00.110]  Yo Harry, you're a writer, are we that type?
[55:00.450 --> 55:01.670]  Don't believe the hype.
[55:09.660 --> 55:12.220]  Now here's what I want y'all to do for me.
[55:12.520 --> 55:16.280]  Don't believe, don't, don't, don't believe the hype.
[55:17.320 --> 55:21.160]  Don't believe, don't, don't, don't believe the hype.
[55:21.600 --> 55:24.740]  I got flavor in all those things you know.
[55:24.960 --> 55:27.160]  Yeah boy, part two bum rough the show.
[55:27.520 --> 55:28.080]  Yo Grim.
[55:28.080 --> 55:29.560]  Get the green, black, and red in.
[55:29.880 --> 55:32.000]  Go down, count down to Armageddon.
[55:32.400 --> 55:34.460]  88, 28, the S1s will.
[55:34.600 --> 55:36.840]  Put the less in effect than I still will.
[55:37.040 --> 55:39.240]  Rock the hard jam, treat it like a seminar.
[55:39.660 --> 55:40.560]  Reach the force wall.
[55:40.620 --> 55:44.100]  Hi, this is Julian Joyello, and I'm a listener and supporter of WBAI.
[55:44.220 --> 55:46.380]  I'm a student at NYU, and I live in New York City.
[55:46.500 --> 55:49.400]  And I want to shout out to the other young listeners of WBAI.
[55:49.600 --> 55:51.380]  We have to help keep this station going.
[55:51.580 --> 55:54.760]  And the easiest way to do it is through the WBAI buddy system.
[55:55.240 --> 56:00.060]  If you've thrown it as little as $10 a month, you have proactively promoted free speech radio.
[56:00.320 --> 56:05.080]  Go to the website, WBAI.org, click the donate button, and make a difference.
[00:00.440 --> 00:02.420]  And welcome to everybody on YouTube.
[00:02.420 --> 00:04.700]  This is Off the Hook Overtime.
[00:05.360 --> 00:07.060]  And Kyle, it looks like you made it.
[00:07.460 --> 00:08.500]  Oh yeah, I'm here.
[00:08.720 --> 00:08.980]  Okay.
[00:09.500 --> 00:11.740]  Rob, Gila, did you make it into YouTube land?
[00:12.340 --> 00:13.340]  We are here.
[00:13.580 --> 00:13.920]  Okay.
[00:14.180 --> 00:18.940]  We haven't yet determined that we are, in fact, on YouTube, but it's likely that we are because we hit the right buttons.
[00:19.520 --> 00:23.340]  Alex, over in Corsica, did you make it into YouTube land as well?
[00:25.060 --> 00:26.920]  Yeah, I'll hang out for a little bit.
[00:27.140 --> 00:27.480]  Okay.
[00:27.480 --> 00:30.940]  It's late here, but yeah, 10, 15 minutes and I'll go to bed.
[00:31.160 --> 00:31.280]  Okay.
[00:31.360 --> 00:31.780]  Sounds good.
[00:31.940 --> 00:34.040]  And maybe the show will only last that long.
[00:34.200 --> 00:35.080]  We never know.
[00:36.120 --> 00:36.740]  That's true.
[00:38.420 --> 00:38.820]  Wow.
[00:39.020 --> 00:40.580]  We only have nine people listening.
[00:40.840 --> 00:44.800]  You know, for all those people who say, you know, keep getting preempted on BAI, why don't you do an internet-only show?
[00:44.920 --> 00:46.780]  This is why, because there's only nine people.
[00:47.160 --> 00:52.040]  If there were, you know, many more people, we know there are lots more people on the radio to listen.
[00:52.260 --> 00:53.040]  How do we know?
[00:53.140 --> 00:54.960]  Because we hear from them constantly.
[00:54.960 --> 01:01.440]  And because you can tune a radio very, very easily, randomly and find us, whereas you have to seek us out on the internet.
[01:01.440 --> 01:05.020]  And it's more work, therefore, you have less people.
[01:05.160 --> 01:09.100]  And you basically see all the people, so you know it's a finite number.
[01:10.180 --> 01:12.380]  Archive down the road, yeah, you don't know how many people will listen to that.
[01:12.540 --> 01:15.780]  But radio, that's the magic of it.
[01:15.900 --> 01:18.700]  That's why we want to stay on the radio, because you never know who's out there.
[01:18.700 --> 01:24.120]  And it could be all sorts of people, and from the feedback that we get, it is all sorts of people.
[01:24.700 --> 01:27.020]  In the meantime, let's bring those numbers up on YouTube.
[01:27.620 --> 01:28.100]  Spread the word.
[01:30.160 --> 01:32.160]  Smash that like button, comment, and subscribe.
[01:32.300 --> 01:32.900]  Don't do that.
[01:33.120 --> 01:35.600]  We never tell people to do that.
[01:35.700 --> 01:37.020]  But everybody does on YouTube.
[01:37.020 --> 01:37.800]  It's so annoying.
[01:38.460 --> 01:39.820]  I just discovered something.
[01:40.120 --> 01:47.240]  I was using my home assistant, whose name I won't say, because she'll be triggered if I do.
[01:47.940 --> 01:49.760]  Well, let's call her Alice.
[01:49.880 --> 01:50.420]  How about that?
[01:50.820 --> 01:53.340]  I said, Alice, play WBAI.
[01:54.180 --> 01:59.820]  And Alice played me a full minute of commercials first, before playing WBAI.
[02:00.060 --> 02:04.580]  Now, what I want to know, and I'm hoping either you guys or our listeners might be able to help with this.
[02:05.320 --> 02:08.420]  I tried it on a different radio station, and that didn't happen.
[02:08.540 --> 02:10.360]  Is this something that is being set at WBAI?
[02:10.940 --> 02:16.720]  Or is this something that's being set at Alice's headquarters out there in Washington State?
[02:16.720 --> 02:18.440]  And what do we do about it?
[02:18.540 --> 02:20.020]  Because it's really annoying as hell.
[02:20.060 --> 02:23.160]  They have to listen to a minute of commercials just to hear our own radio station.
[02:23.280 --> 02:23.620]  Yes, Kila.
[02:24.260 --> 02:33.420]  So I did have this experience, because the time was, before I was part of the program, I would just listen.
[02:33.620 --> 02:39.840]  And sometimes I would listen on my personal home device, because that was easier than a radio.
[02:39.840 --> 02:45.460]  So I found that if I requested it one way, it would get there through a service called TuneIn.
[02:45.620 --> 02:45.800]  Right.
[02:46.140 --> 02:47.860]  And then I got the minute of commercials.
[02:48.400 --> 02:52.460]  But sometimes, if I very specifically, can you please turn off the YouTube replay?
[02:52.600 --> 02:53.340]  It's making me crazy.
[02:54.960 --> 02:55.960]  I don't know what that means.
[02:56.380 --> 02:56.860]  Who are you talking to?
[02:56.860 --> 02:58.340]  Oh, it meant that we had...
[02:58.340 --> 02:59.020]  I was talking to Rob.
[02:59.100 --> 02:59.460]  Oh, okay.
[02:59.500 --> 03:03.980]  Because we had YouTube going, so everything I said was then getting played back to me 10 seconds later.
[03:04.140 --> 03:04.400]  Uh-huh.
[03:04.400 --> 03:06.520]  And I thought I was having an episode.
[03:06.660 --> 03:07.000]  Apologies.
[03:07.380 --> 03:07.580]  It's okay.
[03:08.400 --> 03:20.000]  So sometimes, if you said very specifically, call letters, frequency, city, then you would just get the direct feed without going through TuneIn.
[03:20.160 --> 03:22.200]  But it was a little finicky.
[03:23.640 --> 03:24.720]  So that's the answer.
[03:24.840 --> 03:33.120]  There's a third-party app that listens to radio stations, and that gives you the advertising, even if it's not a free station.
[03:33.120 --> 03:39.080]  So they've changed their policy, it seems like, because it hadn't been that way, or it seems like it's something that has changed.
[03:39.120 --> 03:45.120]  Well, hang on a second, because TuneIn happens to be what I used, but it's also what I used last week when this didn't happen.
[03:45.120 --> 03:47.600]  It's also what I used a few minutes ago with the other radio stations.
[03:47.740 --> 03:51.400]  So I think that's partially true, but it's not entirely true.
[03:51.540 --> 03:53.540]  And I still don't know where it's coming from.
[03:54.820 --> 04:01.920]  There are also, in our home assistant situation, we have the morning briefing.
[04:02.480 --> 04:06.460]  We get news from a station, which will not be named, but we get news.
[04:07.270 --> 04:12.820]  And sometimes we get an advertisement at the end of the news, and sometimes we don't.
[04:13.220 --> 04:13.760]  Interesting.
[04:13.820 --> 04:14.920]  There's no way to know.
[04:15.760 --> 04:28.460]  Well, you know, I've accepted the fact that TuneIn will play their stupid slogan and chime or whatever, and that wastes about five or ten seconds when I'm trying to hear a station quickly to see if we're on the air.
[04:29.960 --> 04:33.160]  But now, with a minute of commercials, that's too much.
[04:33.280 --> 04:34.220]  Can't abide that.
[04:34.780 --> 04:36.480]  For a community radio station.
[04:36.780 --> 04:37.640]  Well, I don't know if it's us.
[04:37.640 --> 04:39.000]  I don't know if the station is doing it.
[04:39.100 --> 04:39.860]  I'm not saying it is.
[04:39.860 --> 04:42.800]  It's just wrong on so many levels, that being one of them.
[04:42.840 --> 04:43.180]  Of course, yeah.
[04:43.780 --> 04:47.440]  If listeners can help with this to help us figure out what's going on, how to fix it, that'd be great.
[04:47.560 --> 04:48.160]  Rob, yes, go ahead.
[04:48.160 --> 04:50.140]  Yeah, I mean, it can't be us, can it?
[04:50.200 --> 04:57.660]  Because I think we're specifically not allowed to do that, you know, under our remit as a non-profit radio station.
[04:57.760 --> 04:59.360]  Well, on the radio, we can't do that.
[04:59.540 --> 05:07.940]  It doesn't say anything about, you know, Atlas devices, or it doesn't say anything about websites, or it doesn't say anything about billboards on the side of, you know, buildings.
[05:08.820 --> 05:09.620]  It's very interesting.
[05:09.780 --> 05:16.460]  I somehow doubt that we're the ones getting paid for, you know, the seven cents or whatever that ad brings in.
[05:16.620 --> 05:17.220]  Yeah, I agree.
[05:18.160 --> 05:18.520]  Getting paid.
[05:18.720 --> 05:20.460]  Yeah, who's making money off of us?
[05:21.180 --> 05:22.100]  I'd like to know that.
[05:23.100 --> 05:23.640]  Go ahead.
[05:24.000 --> 05:29.980]  Can I ask one question, though, which is that you have now got a song stuck in my head, so can we call her something else?
[05:32.240 --> 05:33.220]  I don't care.
[05:33.360 --> 05:36.440]  You just can't call her her name, otherwise she starts doing things.
[05:37.020 --> 05:37.520]  No, I understand.
[05:37.720 --> 05:40.860]  You know, there are a few other wake words, and we could use one of those.
[05:40.860 --> 05:43.440]  So if you said, like, oh, what's the new one?
[05:43.660 --> 05:44.760]  So we've got...
[05:44.760 --> 05:46.000]  Oh, the new one is Ziggy.
[05:46.200 --> 05:46.560]  Ziggy.
[05:46.920 --> 05:47.280]  Yes.
[05:47.460 --> 05:47.660]  Really?
[05:47.760 --> 05:48.300]  They have a new one?
[05:48.320 --> 05:48.540]  Ziggy, apparently.
[05:49.420 --> 05:49.780]  Yeah.
[05:50.240 --> 05:52.740]  As, I think, a tie-in for the new Quantum Leap.
[05:52.880 --> 05:53.600]  It might be, yes.
[05:53.740 --> 05:53.920]  Yes.
[05:53.920 --> 06:06.940]  So there's a, you can, you know, your wake word can be its official name, or the device name, or computer, or Ziggy is the new one, so you could use one of those.
[06:07.680 --> 06:14.780]  But no, I have the song Living Next Door to Alice stuck in my head now, and it probably will be for a long time, so I've got to thank you.
[06:14.960 --> 06:15.620]  All right, no problem.
[06:15.900 --> 06:18.180]  You're not singing those lyrics on the radio, because...
[06:18.180 --> 06:20.000]  Well, we're not on the radio anymore, so...
[06:20.540 --> 06:21.480]  Not that we know of.
[06:21.480 --> 06:23.140]  Oh, YouTube's worse about that, though.
[06:23.180 --> 06:24.320]  Somebody could be simulcasting us on the radio.
[06:24.380 --> 06:24.880]  They could do that.
[06:24.960 --> 06:28.020]  YouTube's way more possessive about, like, lyrics and stuff.
[06:28.240 --> 06:28.900]  That's true.
[06:29.060 --> 06:29.380]  That's true.
[06:29.440 --> 06:31.140]  That's why we don't play music on Overtime, because...
[06:31.140 --> 06:32.820]  All the fun is just bad news.
[06:32.960 --> 06:33.920]  Hey, did you hear the good news?
[06:33.920 --> 06:37.460]  We won our video battle with...
[06:37.460 --> 06:38.860]  Well, it wasn't really a battle with YouTube.
[06:39.020 --> 06:53.000]  YouTube was acting on behalf of NBC Universal, and they were saying that because one of the Hope Talks had a clip from Mr. Robot that we were infringing upon their copyright, and they took down the video in many parts of the world, including the United States.
[06:54.000 --> 07:00.920]  And, you know, we complained long and hard about this, and then eventually we did what we probably should have done at the beginning and appealed the decision.
[07:01.380 --> 07:04.140]  And someone at NBC Universal said, yeah, okay, no problem.
[07:04.380 --> 07:05.260]  And now it's up.
[07:05.380 --> 07:07.180]  So, yeah, that's...
[07:07.180 --> 07:08.180]  Sometimes it works.
[07:09.760 --> 07:16.640]  There's still such a delightfulness that, you know, it was that particular show where we know they like us, basically.
[07:17.260 --> 07:19.920]  But they had no control, no power over this.
[07:20.000 --> 07:20.820]  That was the irony.
[07:20.980 --> 07:26.060]  We were kind of feasting on the irony a little bit, but it was just as well that the irony is gone now.
[07:26.640 --> 07:27.120]  Yeah.
[07:27.280 --> 07:37.980]  And in addition to it being just a case, like a textbook example of fair use, you know, discussing the representation in media.
[07:37.980 --> 07:42.080]  It was a talk about hacker representation in the media.
[07:42.240 --> 07:43.560]  You couldn't get more academic than that.
[07:43.780 --> 07:46.880]  So, yeah, you have to play excerpts, and it is fair use.
[07:47.040 --> 07:48.680]  It's the textbook definition of fair use.
[07:49.020 --> 07:50.360]  So, I'm glad somebody saw that.
[07:50.440 --> 07:51.760]  I'm glad a human got involved somewhere.
[07:51.880 --> 07:54.880]  I assume it was a human, or if it was a nice computer, fine, whatever.
[07:57.420 --> 08:02.720]  But, you know, what Bob said is that, you know, we have these presumptions of infringement.
[08:02.720 --> 08:09.120]  You know, anything that's detected is presumed to be some kind of infringement, unless it's proven otherwise, right?
[08:09.160 --> 08:15.380]  And that's for the administrative convenience of complying with, you know, the DMCA.
[08:15.680 --> 08:19.220]  And so, it's just, it's annoying that we had to go through it.
[08:19.500 --> 08:27.880]  You know, of course it worked when a human being looked at it and realized, yes, this certainly is, you know, some kind of fair use of copyrighted material.
[08:28.400 --> 08:37.900]  But the, yeah, it's just, sorry, my brain isn't working as well as it ordinarily is.
[08:37.940 --> 08:43.380]  I can kind of empathize these days with Bobson, because I think I'm in his time zone.
[08:44.120 --> 08:45.580]  You're one time zone over.
[08:46.120 --> 08:46.880]  Yeah, I think you're...
[08:46.880 --> 08:47.140]  Am I?
[08:47.320 --> 08:49.720]  Yeah, Bulgaria is one hour later.
[08:49.940 --> 08:57.560]  I think you're just speaking to how this, this is how entities scale their products.
[08:57.560 --> 09:10.700]  You cannot, you simply cannot hire enough people to do this kind of work, some of it incredibly emotionally exhausting, and just hard to retain people.
[09:10.840 --> 09:15.740]  And yeah, I mean, that's the way we scale and handle millions and millions of users.
[09:16.820 --> 09:17.380]  Yep.
[09:17.680 --> 09:20.240]  Yeah, that's basically the gist of it.
[09:20.240 --> 09:29.380]  And it's unfortunate that these presumptions always work against us, and then you have to fight to rebut those presumptions.
[09:29.620 --> 09:33.620]  You know, it just seems like it should be the other way around, right?
[09:33.860 --> 09:34.320]  Mm-hmm.
[09:34.320 --> 09:44.920]  The presumption should be that, you know, especially if it's a small snippet of a copyrighted piece, that the presumption should be that it's a fair use of that copyrighted piece.
[09:44.920 --> 09:50.380]  If it's 10 seconds, 15 seconds, 30 seconds, maybe a minute, if the overall piece is, let's say, an hour.
[09:50.960 --> 10:12.060]  So perhaps one way that you could take a look at this in a more reasonable and balanced way would be to say, okay, if we know that the overall piece itself is going to be 60 minutes, and it's less than 3% or 5% of the overall piece, then why can't we just presume it's a fair use of that material,
[10:12.220 --> 10:13.380]  that particular excerpt?
[10:13.380 --> 10:18.640]  Yeah, maybe somebody can come along and say, aha, this is not fair use, and I can prove it.
[10:18.780 --> 10:22.740]  You know, basically, the assumption is that it is fair use until somebody comes along and says otherwise.
[10:23.620 --> 10:24.800]  Yeah, exactly.
[10:25.620 --> 10:42.240]  And get better deals in the first place so that people aren't trying to... publishers and maybe artists... I'm not going to say artists do this, but they're trying to come after people long after the fact to monetize these violations.
[10:42.260 --> 10:50.920]  I think it's more of a publishing and ownership thing where they're turning it into kind of a business model to police people.
[10:50.920 --> 11:05.440]  But if everyone up front gets credit and a fair deal, this won't be something that people want to try to turn into a money-making scheme.
[11:05.440 --> 11:11.220]  They will have been paid and not be as concerned about trying to come after every single person.
[11:11.340 --> 11:19.240]  In fact, it's much more beneficial to get your stuff distributed widely so that people are aware of your craft.
[11:19.500 --> 11:20.420]  So, good news.
[11:20.580 --> 11:28.020]  Every talk of the Hope Conference, A New Hope from last month, is now online on Channel 2600 and YouTube.
[11:28.180 --> 11:33.420]  The same channel that we're all in right now, watching or listening to this radio program.
[11:34.300 --> 11:36.920]  And more material on the way of all sorts.
[11:37.440 --> 11:49.640]  But here's a story about our friend Virgil Griffith, who has been sent to prison for a number of years for daring to go to North Korea and attend a cryptocurrency conference.
[11:50.620 --> 11:52.400]  We've talked about this in the past.
[11:52.560 --> 11:57.760]  But this story was sent to us by a number of people, and it's disturbing.
[11:58.100 --> 12:02.920]  It has to do with something known as the Ethereum Name Service, ENS.
[12:03.000 --> 12:04.220]  Some people might be familiar with that.
[12:04.600 --> 12:07.280]  It's a Web3 equivalent of DNS.
[12:07.280 --> 12:07.480]  DNS.
[12:07.820 --> 12:13.900]  If you've seen people with usernames ending in .eth, that's an ENS address.
[12:14.280 --> 12:18.320]  Now, the problem is, .eth is not a functional top-level domain.
[12:18.540 --> 12:26.720]  And so many services relied on eth.link to surface these DNS records to other services.
[12:27.280 --> 12:35.580]  However, the eth.link domain is only rented for a set period of time and needs to be renewed.
[12:36.180 --> 12:36.980]  Simple, right?
[12:37.320 --> 12:49.340]  Well, basically, according to an entity known as ENSDAO, who tweeted, they said the domain's owner, happens to be Virgil, is unavailable.
[12:50.040 --> 12:57.720]  And by this, they mean he is currently serving his first of five years in prison for helping North Korea evade sanctions.
[12:57.720 --> 12:59.600]  That's the charge.
[12:59.600 --> 13:00.420]  That's the accusation.
[13:00.540 --> 13:01.040]  It's not true.
[13:02.020 --> 13:06.420]  Anyway, with Virgil unavailable, the project has found itself at the mercy of GoDaddy.
[13:07.200 --> 13:09.940]  Whenever you're at the mercy of GoDaddy, it's not a good thing.
[13:11.920 --> 13:23.080]  Although GoDaddy previously allowed another person to renew the domain on Virgil's behalf, for some reason, they reversed that decision, probably pressure from the government.
[13:24.120 --> 13:28.680]  And now they say they intend to allow the domain to expire on September 5th.
[13:30.360 --> 13:37.280]  The ENSDAO issued a series of tweets urging people to switch to a different service, given the risk that the domain could be snapped up.
[13:37.400 --> 13:42.900]  If the name expires and is acquired by someone with ill intent, the damage they could do via phishing is substantial.
[13:43.060 --> 13:47.460]  So please update your links and alert your users of the issue immediately.
[13:48.280 --> 13:49.780]  Alex, this is insane.
[13:49.980 --> 13:51.100]  How do they get away with this?
[13:51.100 --> 13:53.400]  You know a lot about domain registration.
[13:53.920 --> 13:58.460]  I mean, can they just allow this to fall into the hands of unscrupulous people?
[14:01.280 --> 14:16.720]  You put me in a tough spot here, Emanuel, because I am actually working on this particular issue and have been working on this particular issue, both with ENS and Virgil.
[14:16.960 --> 14:26.340]  So, you know, look, there's going to be a lot more, I think, to come of this over the next week or so, but it's certainly problematic.
[14:26.620 --> 14:31.740]  It's unusual for a domain name registrar to issue a statement like that.
[14:32.520 --> 14:39.800]  I really, frankly, because I'm so actually involved in this particular issue on a day-to-day basis right now.
[14:40.620 --> 14:45.620]  I probably shouldn't speak really too much about the...
[14:46.340 --> 14:48.560]  my thoughts on it and where this is going.
[14:49.000 --> 14:50.580]  But it is a big problem.
[14:51.860 --> 14:54.860]  It's... and we're going to be addressing it.
[14:56.040 --> 15:01.000]  Well, I hope so, but I am getting a little tired of not speaking, you know, because that's what we've been doing with this case for years now.
[15:01.300 --> 15:03.940]  Not speaking, because you don't want to anger the wrong people.
[15:04.100 --> 15:06.640]  For God's sake, he's sitting in prison now, five years.
[15:07.060 --> 15:08.160]  I think it's time to speak.
[15:08.280 --> 15:10.200]  I think it's time for us to shout, in fact.
[15:10.400 --> 15:11.080]  It's really annoying.
[15:11.280 --> 15:16.200]  Hey, on top of that, on top of that, excuse me, on top of that, we can't even visit him.
[15:16.300 --> 15:17.100]  You can't even visit him.
[15:17.100 --> 15:18.600]  His lawyer can't even visit him.
[15:18.820 --> 15:20.320]  I mean, what the hell is going on?
[15:20.500 --> 15:29.640]  They're using COVID as a reason, as if they give a rat's ass about health in these places, the conditions they subjected him to.
[15:29.860 --> 15:34.600]  They're just using that as an excuse to illegally keep people from talking to him.
[15:34.920 --> 15:36.300]  It really, really is annoying.
[15:36.960 --> 15:43.200]  Yeah, it's been really difficult to talk and communicate with Virgil, especially over the last few months.
[15:43.380 --> 15:56.260]  And we know that numerous people have tried to visit him, people that have been on his approved visitors list, which means that you should be able to pop in whenever you want and see him.
[15:56.260 --> 16:05.000]  But because of the constant changing status of the facility, mostly related to COVID, uh, it makes it into a real, you know, game of roulette.
[16:05.200 --> 16:06.640]  You know, are you, are you going to land on red?
[16:06.740 --> 16:07.640]  You're going to land on black.
[16:07.800 --> 16:12.260]  And essentially, you know, they, they changed the red and black to a green and yellow code.
[16:13.100 --> 16:19.980]  And, you know, if you travel up there to go and see him and it's a yellow day, well, you know, sorry, you're, you're out of luck.
[16:19.980 --> 16:23.800]  How many times have, how many times have you been able to see him at his facility?
[16:24.840 --> 16:26.680]  Zero, zero.
[16:27.120 --> 16:30.720]  And I have intended to go at least three or four times, at least three or four weeks.
[16:30.820 --> 16:33.960]  And so, um, it's, it's been really difficult.
[16:34.040 --> 16:38.580]  I think it's going to be easier soon, uh, to be able to go and see him.
[16:38.920 --> 16:52.780]  But, um, yeah, it's a terrible situation, but you know, the thing that I don't want to speak directly about is, you know, is this eth.link domain name, because that, that is, you know, something I'm, uh, I'm addressing and, and working on actively.
[16:53.560 --> 17:06.300]  And, you know, look, it, it's a really, it's a, it's a massive issue is a really, really massive issue because there are, you know, hundreds of thousands, literally millions of others that rely on this particular domain.
[17:06.740 --> 17:19.740]  Um, and it's, um, yeah, it, it's something that is, I think, you know, born out of, of Virgil's situation.
[17:20.780 --> 17:25.880]  And, and there may be, uh, a lot of other things going on below the surface.
[17:26.020 --> 17:30.660]  And we're, we're going to try to root out all of that information, figure out what's going on and get to the, get to the bottom of it.
[17:30.720 --> 17:31.640]  Isn't it a simple matter?
[17:32.020 --> 17:34.460]  Is it like any other domain where you just renew it?
[17:34.540 --> 17:36.640]  You have a credit card, you renew the domain, it's done.
[17:37.040 --> 17:38.140]  Is it that simple?
[17:38.140 --> 17:40.000]  Or is it something more complex for some reason?
[17:41.340 --> 17:46.700]  Well, it should be that simple, but I think there are, there may be layers of complexity here.
[17:47.280 --> 17:49.980]  And, and that's what, uh, that's what we're peeling back at the moment.
[17:50.180 --> 17:54.460]  And are these layers of complexity that have been added by some outside force?
[17:54.480 --> 17:56.800]  Or is this the way that Virgil set it up in the first place?
[17:57.820 --> 17:59.880]  No, it's, it's not the way that Virgil set it up.
[17:59.980 --> 18:07.520]  I think it should be, you know, a fairly simple routine domain renewal, but that's, that's not the situation that we find ourselves in now.
[18:07.680 --> 18:08.680]  We're trying to figure out why.
[18:08.800 --> 18:09.740]  So they're blocking it.
[18:09.820 --> 18:11.620]  They're intentionally blocking this.
[18:12.240 --> 18:14.180]  I wouldn't say that either though.
[18:14.360 --> 18:16.800]  You know, it's, it's right now it's unclear.
[18:17.080 --> 18:22.680]  Right now there's a lot that we, there's a lot of known unknowns that, as you know, Donald Rumsfeld would have said.
[18:23.280 --> 18:32.700]  Um, and what we're, we're doing our damnedest to try to, to get this domain name registered and, and, you know, all options and remedies are certainly on the table.
[18:32.900 --> 18:34.520]  Well, Monday is when it expires.
[18:34.800 --> 18:49.900]  Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean that's when it's going to be grabbed up by somebody else, but you know, as if he doesn't have enough to go through to do this to him, it just, it just seems like, you know, we have a torture state sometimes that just does everything they can to mess with you when you're,
[18:50.080 --> 18:51.500]  when you run afoul of the system.
[18:51.860 --> 18:59.440]  They're not, not allowing any visitors, even his own attorney, um, uh, getting in the way of, uh, a domain registration, something as simple as that.
[19:00.300 --> 19:01.620]  Who knows what else they're doing?
[19:01.900 --> 19:03.760]  It's just, it's, it's so disgusting.
[19:06.120 --> 19:06.480]  Yeah.
[19:06.660 --> 19:15.500]  I mean, I'm not entirely sure if this is, you know, the, the government that's behind any kind of impediment to the renewal of, of the domain registration.
[19:15.500 --> 19:18.000]  It could be something simple and administrative.
[19:18.260 --> 19:19.180]  It could be a simple fix.
[19:19.680 --> 19:24.460]  Uh, but you know, like I said, it's, it's something that we're working on actively.
[19:24.780 --> 19:25.100]  Okay.
[19:25.220 --> 19:29.520]  Well, and look by next week, we'll, we'll probably be able to speak about this a lot further.
[19:29.680 --> 19:30.300]  Let's hope so.
[19:30.400 --> 19:30.920]  Let's hope so.
[19:31.200 --> 19:36.040]  If you need any help with anything, since you're over there in Corsica, let us know and, uh, we'll do the later.
[19:36.040 --> 19:36.940]  I do appreciate that.
[19:37.380 --> 19:37.600]  Yep.
[19:37.600 --> 19:38.780]  I do appreciate that.
[19:38.920 --> 19:42.480]  Hey, um, I know you have to go in a minute, but we haven't given out the phone number yet.
[19:42.480 --> 19:43.320]  So let's do that.
[19:43.460 --> 19:45.860]  Uh, it's, uh, it's been a long time.
[19:46.020 --> 19:47.820]  802-321-4225.
[19:48.060 --> 19:50.420]  802-321-HACK is our phone number.
[19:50.660 --> 19:55.880]  So anyone out there who wants to, um, um, talk to us, uh, aren't that many people out there.
[19:56.220 --> 20:02.240]  And this is what happens when you're not on the air for a while, when you're not on overtime for a while, you know, people get lives.
[20:02.320 --> 20:03.640]  They develop other interests.
[20:03.920 --> 20:04.800]  They, they move away.
[20:05.080 --> 20:05.900]  All sorts of things happen.
[20:06.020 --> 20:07.600]  And that's why, you know, fewer people.
[20:07.780 --> 20:08.320]  Yes, Rob, go ahead.
[20:09.240 --> 20:15.780]  Um, I just want to thank a couple of people on Twitter who, uh, are bringing to our attention that our volume on YouTube is, uh, very low, apparently.
[20:16.360 --> 20:18.960]  So that, that could, uh, Kyle, you told me to watch the volume.
[20:19.060 --> 20:19.580]  I've been watching it.
[20:19.660 --> 20:19.920]  It looks good.
[20:20.100 --> 20:22.420]  We were watching if it was too high, but, uh, thanks.
[20:22.620 --> 20:23.240]  We'll change that.
[20:23.480 --> 20:26.360]  So we can never make everybody happy, you know?
[20:27.140 --> 20:28.440]  So what, what do I, what do I do here?
[20:28.540 --> 20:29.400]  Do I keep talking?
[20:30.720 --> 20:46.000]  It's... While we're, while we're waiting for, uh, some folks to call us at, uh, 802-321-4225, that's 802-321-HACK, or toll-free if you're in the U.S., uh, you can get us at 833-755-2600, uh, thanks to our pal, Lucky.
[20:46.540 --> 21:02.020]  Um, I, I, I also, like, the, the, the situation with the, uh, dot ETH reminds me of so many, like, sort of alternative, uh, root, uh, DNS, uh, situations that people have tried to set up over the years, even before the days of blockchain.
[21:02.360 --> 21:09.320]  Um, people have tried to basically compete with the, uh, with the, with the, uh, main official sort of DNS services.
[21:09.540 --> 21:12.560]  And I think, uh, most of them kind of sank without trace.
[21:12.760 --> 21:15.060]  Uh, there was, uh, what was there?
[21:15.120 --> 21:16.780]  There, there were, there were, uh, a couple.
[21:16.880 --> 21:21.880]  Microsoft had one called Real Names, which was supposed to be, like, a, a Ginchy Internet Explorer thing.
[21:22.220 --> 21:23.380]  Um, there was Alternic.
[21:23.520 --> 21:32.940]  There were all these, uh, little things that popped up that said, hey, use us instead of the real DNS, and we'll, like, add more, more top-level domains, or add, uh, more bells and whistles to the whole process.
[21:33.140 --> 21:34.900]  And it just never quite worked.
[21:35.020 --> 21:38.280]  But it's something that anybody could, uh, put up on any site they want.
[21:38.440 --> 21:44.000]  And at this time, it, uh, it happened to be on this .link site, uh, that was under the control of Virgil.
[21:44.380 --> 21:55.380]  And, um, we can see now that, uh, you know, that this is maybe not the best idea to try and, uh, to try and start up your own domain situation, because... It's like a hidden service.
[21:55.420 --> 21:56.880]  It is subject to...
[21:58.380 --> 22:01.020]  Rob, it's sort of like a hidden service a bit.
[22:01.160 --> 22:02.360]  It reminds me...
[22:02.360 --> 22:05.220]  Yeah, really well hidden, to the point where it doesn't work, most of these.
[22:05.460 --> 22:06.900]  Um, EDNS was another one.
[22:07.140 --> 22:08.120]  Open RSC.
[22:09.820 --> 22:10.220]  Yeah.
[22:10.680 --> 22:17.620]  Um, it's actually an interesting read if you look up alternative DNS route on Wikipedia, um, about, uh, the history of this sort of thing.
[22:18.220 --> 22:19.760]  So our volume should be okay, right?
[22:19.820 --> 22:20.540]  I'm on the left.
[22:20.640 --> 22:21.400]  I'm all the way on the left.
[22:21.480 --> 22:22.500]  Why am I over here?
[22:22.640 --> 22:23.720]  That's right for me.
[22:23.840 --> 22:26.000]  You know, I gotta fix the, uh...
[22:26.000 --> 22:28.520]  Well, maybe it's right for me, too, because... Chain of audio.
[22:28.700 --> 22:28.920]  You know what?
[22:28.940 --> 22:29.640]  It might be backwards.
[22:29.980 --> 22:30.760]  Did it reverse on YouTube?
[22:30.780 --> 22:31.680]  Is that what happened?
[22:32.080 --> 22:33.120]  Because it was...
[22:33.120 --> 22:36.220]  You told me this was left, and I haven't changed my headphones.
[22:36.800 --> 22:37.860]  And I'm on the left.
[22:38.060 --> 22:38.940]  So now I'm on the right.
[22:39.860 --> 22:40.220]  Wow.
[22:40.780 --> 22:42.380]  You have your headphones on backwards.
[22:42.380 --> 22:46.900]  Well, I switched them when you said that this was the left, and it was coming through the right before.
[22:47.060 --> 22:47.360]  So hold on.
[22:47.440 --> 22:48.840]  I'm gonna change my headphones again.
[22:50.540 --> 22:51.640]  But mine are wrong.
[22:52.620 --> 22:52.940]  Okay.
[22:53.080 --> 22:53.940]  Yeah, I'm on the right now.
[22:53.960 --> 22:54.840]  I don't wanna be on the right.
[22:56.020 --> 22:57.280]  Oh, I don't wanna be on the right at all.
[22:57.780 --> 22:59.840]  And you see, the dial says I'm on the left.
[23:00.340 --> 23:00.980]  Oh, wow.
[23:01.120 --> 23:01.280]  Yeah.
[23:01.440 --> 23:02.440]  So it's all messed up.
[23:02.460 --> 23:03.980]  It's a grave, grave mistake.
[23:04.260 --> 23:08.520]  So I'm just gonna walk over to the other side where I feel more comfortable over here than over there.
[23:10.020 --> 23:10.100]  Yeah.
[23:11.000 --> 23:13.600]  But YouTube is stereo, right?
[23:13.920 --> 23:15.080]  We're doing the best we can.
[23:15.220 --> 23:20.940]  We'll check some of the stuff, but it didn't get the full shakedown.
[23:21.120 --> 23:21.360]  Uh-huh.
[23:21.500 --> 23:22.340]  This is the shakedown.
[23:22.440 --> 23:22.600]  Yeah.
[23:22.720 --> 23:25.060]  Well, it's, you know, you have to make improve.
[23:25.220 --> 23:25.600]  Oh, my God.
[23:26.380 --> 23:26.940]  Hold on a second.
[23:27.160 --> 23:27.420]  Ease up.
[23:27.420 --> 23:28.260]  I dropped it.
[23:28.580 --> 23:29.100]  Hold on.
[23:29.180 --> 23:29.420]  Hold on.
[23:29.560 --> 23:29.800]  Okay.
[23:29.960 --> 23:30.280]  All right.
[23:30.400 --> 23:30.860]  Here we go.
[23:31.540 --> 23:32.040]  All right.
[23:32.600 --> 23:32.960]  Fine.
[23:33.060 --> 23:33.680]  Everything's fine now.
[23:34.180 --> 23:35.060]  Any phone calls?
[23:35.460 --> 23:35.820]  Yes.
[23:36.000 --> 23:36.320]  We do.
[23:36.480 --> 23:36.660]  Okay.
[23:36.700 --> 23:37.380]  I didn't hear the phone ring.
[23:37.620 --> 23:38.540]  We have a phone call now.
[23:38.660 --> 23:39.400]  Be careful with that button.
[23:39.760 --> 23:40.360]  I'll try.
[23:40.560 --> 23:41.600]  You know, you know what's gonna happen.
[23:41.620 --> 23:42.480]  My headphones are on backwards.
[23:42.480 --> 23:43.100]  You're not careful.
[23:44.660 --> 23:45.300]  Good evening.
[23:45.360 --> 23:47.000]  You're on Off the Hook Overtime.
[23:47.900 --> 23:48.620]  Hi, Manuel.
[23:48.920 --> 23:49.400]  Oh, and one.
[23:49.520 --> 23:50.720]  Oh, no, I didn't get a... Hold on.
[23:50.880 --> 23:52.200]  I'm trying to play basketball here.
[23:52.400 --> 23:54.860]  Rebel, I have a few pointed questions for you.
[23:55.000 --> 23:56.680]  Number one, were you at Hope or not?
[23:57.740 --> 23:58.920]  Actually, no, I was not.
[23:59.120 --> 24:00.880]  You did not go to Hope.
[24:01.100 --> 24:01.460]  Wow.
[24:02.540 --> 24:02.900]  Wow.
[24:04.340 --> 24:05.900]  I cannot believe this.
[24:06.120 --> 24:07.600]  I don't think that's ever happened before.
[24:08.680 --> 24:09.640]  Actually, no, I did not.
[24:09.840 --> 24:12.700]  I haven't been going to the... All right.
[24:12.840 --> 24:15.360]  There were a couple of Hope conferences that I didn't go to.
[24:15.520 --> 24:16.720]  Well, don't make me feel even worse.
[24:17.540 --> 24:19.080]  I mean, it depends on the content.
[24:19.360 --> 24:23.980]  I mean, I looked up what the speakers were and what it just didn't interest me.
[24:24.120 --> 24:24.360]  Really?
[24:24.560 --> 24:25.620]  It didn't interest you at all?
[24:25.760 --> 24:25.860]  Hmm.
[24:26.440 --> 24:33.860]  I mean, some of the things which you like talking about, crypto things and like, you know, well, you know, advanced... Technology and hacking.
[24:33.860 --> 24:34.660]  I mean, it's interesting.
[24:35.100 --> 24:39.260]  You know, I mean, like, you know, some of the stuff is like... No, no, it's fine.
[24:39.260 --> 24:39.860]  I understand.
[24:40.280 --> 24:41.340]  It's perfectly okay.
[24:41.660 --> 24:43.640]  I'm sure you had something better to do that weekend.
[24:45.720 --> 24:46.360]  Well, no.
[24:48.740 --> 24:50.080]  So, where are you now?
[24:50.580 --> 24:52.320]  Are you in some... I'm trying to play basketball.
[24:52.680 --> 24:54.820]  You're trying to play basketball on the radio?
[24:57.460 --> 24:57.820]  Yeah.
[24:57.820 --> 24:58.180]  Um...
[24:58.180 --> 25:00.600]  Let me try this, uh...
[25:00.960 --> 25:02.140]  Is it just a school night?
[25:02.380 --> 25:03.020]  Hang on a second.
[25:03.300 --> 25:07.380]  Are you actually outside at a basketball court shooting hoops right now?
[25:07.540 --> 25:08.000]  You are?
[25:08.400 --> 25:08.600]  Yeah.
[25:09.240 --> 25:09.560]  Okay.
[25:09.780 --> 25:11.540]  That's a side of you I never knew about.
[25:11.580 --> 25:12.300]  I hear the basketball.
[25:12.560 --> 25:13.960]  I hear something that could be a basketball.
[25:14.120 --> 25:15.000]  It's got a lot of air in it.
[25:15.360 --> 25:16.280]  How are you talking?
[25:16.300 --> 25:17.600]  You need both hands to dribble.
[25:18.580 --> 25:19.100]  Well, no.
[25:19.220 --> 25:22.000]  I'm holding the phone with one hand and I'm dribbling with the other hand.
[25:22.120 --> 25:23.640]  Okay, but you need two hands to shoot.
[25:23.720 --> 25:25.040]  You can't shoot with... Well, I guess you could.
[25:25.660 --> 25:26.640]  Well, actually, I can.
[25:27.900 --> 25:30.620]  I just... Well, I did make it in the floor with one hand.
[25:30.840 --> 25:31.840]  But anyway...
[25:31.840 --> 25:33.820]  Uh... Is it necessary that you be, uh...
[25:33.820 --> 25:35.960]  playing basketball while you're talking to us?
[25:36.520 --> 25:38.180]  Well, I can do it at the same time.
[25:38.660 --> 25:39.060]  Okay?
[25:39.940 --> 25:40.340]  Um...
[25:40.340 --> 25:41.980]  Well, I'm taking your word for it.
[25:44.040 --> 25:44.440]  Um...
[25:44.440 --> 25:47.000]  So, I just want to know, um...
[25:48.380 --> 25:49.360]  Ah, that was...
[25:49.360 --> 25:50.960]  I don't like doing sports radio.
[25:50.960 --> 25:51.300]  Why is it that?
[25:51.400 --> 25:52.220]  Remember, um...
[25:52.220 --> 26:02.060]  back in the 70s and then when the touchstone was first invented in the 70s, they had the pound sign, the pound button, and the number, the star, and the pound buttons.
[26:02.600 --> 26:02.880]  Yeah.
[26:02.940 --> 26:03.760]  What was that?
[26:04.420 --> 26:05.680]  Were those, like...
[26:05.680 --> 26:08.720]  Did they know that bank by phone and voicemail?
[26:08.860 --> 26:09.840]  Was that going to show that?
[26:10.020 --> 26:11.740]  Well, I remember, uh...
[26:11.740 --> 26:15.380]  First of all, I think it was the 60s that touchstone was actually first brought out.
[26:15.540 --> 26:18.440]  But I do remember in phone books it would say, um...
[26:18.440 --> 26:18.920]  the, uh...
[26:18.920 --> 26:19.540]  the pound sign.
[26:19.600 --> 26:20.280]  They didn't know what to call it.
[26:20.280 --> 26:22.920]  Some called it the tic-tac-toe sign, uh...
[26:22.920 --> 26:23.380]  number sign.
[26:23.680 --> 26:25.280]  They said, reserve for future use.
[26:25.420 --> 26:26.400]  So they must have had some idea.
[26:26.500 --> 26:32.340]  I imagine what they probably were thinking were things like call forwarding and call waiting, you know, uh...
[26:32.340 --> 26:33.780]  star 70, all that kind of thing.
[26:34.320 --> 26:38.080]  And I think they had that in their minds at the phone company that they were going to use it for that.
[26:38.160 --> 26:41.460]  They probably didn't know about all the other potential uses down the road.
[26:41.460 --> 26:44.480]  The phone company would also say, um...
[26:44.480 --> 26:52.040]  the pound sign, like, after you dial your international number, press pound, if you have an electronic first, press pound, and your call will go through faster.
[26:52.180 --> 26:57.380]  Like, if you put zero and then pound, it'll go through faster because when you put zero it's waiting for the rest of the digits.
[26:57.620 --> 27:03.820]  The reason, yeah, because of variable length of international numbers so it wouldn't know when you're finished, so the pound sign was sort of like a return key.
[27:04.860 --> 27:07.600]  Yeah, and you kind of the United Kingdom would call it hash.
[27:07.980 --> 27:08.560]  Yeah, they do.
[27:08.660 --> 27:09.040]  And one.
[27:10.200 --> 27:10.860]  And one.
[27:10.860 --> 27:11.640]  And one?
[27:12.720 --> 27:14.920]  No, no, no, that's the best of what it means I got it in.
[27:15.400 --> 27:15.760]  Oh.
[27:17.080 --> 27:19.240]  Let's try and focus on one thing at a time.
[27:22.380 --> 27:27.900]  But, you know, I never knew that about international numbers that you can add a hash at the end of it.
[27:27.960 --> 27:32.960]  Well, I don't know if that still works because I don't know if people still dial internationally the same way.
[27:33.320 --> 27:36.240]  It would be 011, country code, city code, number, pound sign.
[27:36.400 --> 27:39.280]  Yeah, country code, city code, number, and then pound sign, yeah.
[27:39.460 --> 27:40.540]  You could still do it that way.
[27:40.540 --> 27:43.380]  I can't remember the last time I ever made an international call that way.
[27:43.620 --> 27:48.920]  You know, mostly on cell phones now, you hit the plus sign, country code, and, you know, just return at the end.
[27:49.180 --> 27:50.300]  So, we're sent.
[27:50.460 --> 27:52.540]  I dial 011 myself.
[27:52.720 --> 27:56.960]  I don't think the two of you can hear each other or at least you're talking over each other.
[27:58.460 --> 28:01.200]  I can hear you, but I can't hear him.
[28:01.520 --> 28:02.720]  I mean, I can't hear Alex.
[28:03.220 --> 28:07.520]  Okay, that might be an ongoing setting I haven't figured out.
[28:07.860 --> 28:08.060]  Oh, boy.
[28:08.220 --> 28:10.300]  Okay, well, as we mentioned, we have some upgrades here.
[28:11.980 --> 28:18.960]  After all the hope conferences and the hackers that you can't even figure this out, maybe you should go back to the WBIS studio at...
[28:18.960 --> 28:20.580]  Maybe you should show up at a hope conference.
[28:20.620 --> 28:21.140]  How about that?
[28:23.320 --> 28:24.220]  And one again.
[28:24.220 --> 28:26.100]  All right, let's everybody just calm down.
[28:26.260 --> 28:27.820]  All right, let's just...
[28:27.820 --> 28:29.920]  See, I can make it in with one hand.
[28:32.060 --> 28:33.960]  For all we know, you're playing sound effects.
[28:36.680 --> 28:38.600]  Literally, a button just flew off the board.
[28:38.700 --> 28:39.500]  What's going on over there?
[28:39.880 --> 28:40.520]  Everything's fine.
[28:40.720 --> 28:42.060]  I don't think everything's fine.
[28:42.120 --> 28:42.800]  That wouldn't have happened.
[28:43.060 --> 28:44.640]  All right, I'll try and make a three-pointer now.
[28:45.540 --> 28:46.500]  Nope, that was off.
[28:47.400 --> 28:49.120]  Is anybody else there with you?
[28:50.180 --> 28:51.080]  Yeah, actually.
[28:51.400 --> 28:52.800]  Would you like to say hello to someone?
[28:52.920 --> 28:53.440]  Not really.
[28:57.040 --> 28:57.920]  All right, hold on.
[28:58.020 --> 29:00.320]  No, I never said I wanted to say hello to anybody.
[29:00.920 --> 29:04.760]  Oh, okay, well, I mean, there are people here.
[29:05.000 --> 29:05.520]  I mean, I'm not...
[29:05.520 --> 29:08.360]  Are you playing me through a speakerphone so they hear me being rude?
[29:09.660 --> 29:13.580]  No, I'm not playing like a game of basketball.
[29:13.760 --> 29:15.720]  I'm just playing with, you know...
[29:16.140 --> 29:16.500]  Yeah.
[29:16.700 --> 29:21.620]  I didn't hear crowd cheering, so I assumed you weren't, but still, it's unusual.
[29:23.420 --> 29:26.400]  Rebel, so you're back from Russia, obviously.
[29:27.340 --> 29:29.620]  Right, yeah, that was such an amazing job.
[29:29.860 --> 29:31.220]  I really, in June, I went.
[29:31.780 --> 29:33.600]  I was the best, I really enjoyed myself.
[29:33.760 --> 29:37.160]  Russia and Turkey and Poland, Warsaw, Poland.
[29:40.200 --> 29:42.660]  Which country did you enjoy the most, would you say?
[29:43.700 --> 29:44.380]  I don't know.
[29:44.560 --> 29:55.680]  I think I liked I guess Russia, I will, maybe Turkey between Turkey and Russia because two years ago I went to Ukraine, Kiev, Ukraine, two years ago and I liked that.
[29:55.820 --> 30:10.120]  I mean, it was kind of, like Russia's more kind of exciting because it's like the main country and Ukraine, Kiev is like, it's like an Eastern European kind of a country, you know, it's like a former Soviet thing, which was nice and everything, but I mean,
[30:10.260 --> 30:28.080]  Russia had more, it's more touristy in Russia, you know, you got Moscow and, you know, everything else and then people were, there were a lot of people in Moscow and I went to the gum mall, you know, that famous gum mall that's in Red Square, I went, it's not air conditioned because it's like built in the 1800s or whatever,
[30:28.440 --> 30:44.240]  it's not air conditioned and it's all like upscale Gucci and like Bersace and all this kind of upscale stores that I Well, I think one of the reasons for it being more, you okay there, Kyle?
[30:44.460 --> 30:45.140]  I'm getting static.
[30:45.760 --> 30:47.040]  Yeah, he might be able to hear them now.
[30:47.180 --> 30:47.920]  Okay, well, we'll see.
[30:48.080 --> 30:56.320]  But I think one of the reasons, Rebel, that you might find them to be more tourist friendly is because they don't have missiles raining down on them from other places.
[30:56.700 --> 31:00.800]  When you do that, it does quell the tourist trade a little bit.
[31:02.300 --> 31:12.060]  Well, I mean, there was the interest thing in the Soviet Union where you had to go to their hotels and go with their tour guys and you know, you weren't free to like roam around.
[31:12.280 --> 31:15.840]  Like, you know, I mean, I would have to choose what hotel I wanted to stay in.
[31:15.880 --> 31:17.300]  I could have went to other parts of the country.
[31:17.500 --> 31:19.540]  I didn't have the money that next year.
[31:19.640 --> 31:21.600]  You still have to register where you are.
[31:22.400 --> 31:24.520]  Yeah, we offer the visa and all that.
[31:24.900 --> 31:30.000]  A lot of countries do that, but next year I want to go because the visa is good for three years.
[31:30.700 --> 31:30.900]  Okay.
[31:32.820 --> 31:34.940]  So next year I'd like to go to St. Petersburg maybe.
[31:35.240 --> 31:36.880]  St. Petersburg is a very nice city.
[31:37.140 --> 31:38.240]  That is certainly true.
[31:38.420 --> 31:47.720]  And I'd like to go to an odd place like Grosny or some other Eastern European post-Soviet type of a city or whatever, you know?
[31:48.740 --> 31:57.280]  Well, let's hope that common sense returns to that part of the world and maybe we can all start going back and forth again.
[31:57.380 --> 31:57.780]  It would be nice.
[31:58.900 --> 31:59.240]  Yeah.
[32:00.740 --> 32:01.240]  All right.
[32:01.280 --> 32:02.700]  Anything else you want to share with us?
[32:03.380 --> 32:04.620]  Um, let's see.
[32:05.940 --> 32:08.280]  Um, let's see.
[32:08.480 --> 32:09.480]  Um, what else?
[32:09.640 --> 32:12.740]  The pound stock, you know, they call it hash in the United Kingdom.
[32:12.960 --> 32:13.820]  Yes, you mentioned that.
[32:18.280 --> 32:20.460]  No, Nassadam, they call it an octothorpe with cheese.
[32:21.160 --> 32:23.900]  Did you hear that remark from Rob T.
[32:24.020 --> 32:24.280]  Firefly?
[32:24.280 --> 32:25.140]  Emanuel Goldstein?
[32:25.840 --> 32:26.700]  Can you hear me?
[32:28.340 --> 32:28.700]  Hello?
[32:29.940 --> 32:30.660]  Emanuel Goldstein?
[32:30.820 --> 32:32.020]  Why is he saying my name like that?
[32:32.300 --> 32:33.620]  What are you doing, Kyle?
[32:33.700 --> 32:34.780]  You're making it sound awful.
[32:34.960 --> 32:36.560]  Oh, I didn't hear you.
[32:38.020 --> 32:38.720]  I'm not sure.
[32:38.880 --> 32:40.060]  We have all kinds of upgrades now.
[32:40.080 --> 32:41.020]  Maybe you can't hear me anymore.
[32:42.120 --> 32:43.300]  Well, I can hear you now.
[32:43.340 --> 32:43.880]  You can hear me now.
[32:43.920 --> 32:44.600]  You couldn't hear me before.
[32:44.920 --> 32:45.160]  Okay.
[32:45.160 --> 32:46.740]  And I guess you didn't hear you before.
[32:46.920 --> 32:48.080]  You didn't hear anything Rob said.
[32:49.460 --> 32:51.080]  I didn't hear anything anyone said.
[32:51.080 --> 32:53.800]  I just said that the United Kingdom, they call it the hash.
[32:54.120 --> 32:56.400]  Yeah, and that was the third time you said that.
[32:57.600 --> 32:59.120]  Kyle, I assume he can hear you.
[33:00.220 --> 33:00.580]  Yeah.
[33:01.280 --> 33:01.960]  Did you hear that?
[33:02.260 --> 33:04.140]  Yes, I can hear him.
[33:04.480 --> 33:06.180]  Now, Rob, I'm going to ask you to say something.
[33:07.660 --> 33:08.020]  Octothorpe.
[33:08.380 --> 33:11.940]  Okay, you're kind of low, even, let me bring this up.
[33:12.160 --> 33:13.500]  Wait a minute, somehow that got turned down.
[33:13.940 --> 33:15.700]  I'm sorry, I don't know how that happened.
[33:16.120 --> 33:16.960]  Be careful with that.
[33:17.180 --> 33:19.060]  And that changes my levels, too, when I turn out.
[33:19.140 --> 33:20.720]  I didn't do that, someone else did that.
[33:21.260 --> 33:22.300]  Rob, say something again.
[33:23.560 --> 33:28.320]  The original name for the pound sign was Octothorpe when the engineers chose it.
[33:28.600 --> 33:29.540]  Did you hear that, Rebel?
[33:30.900 --> 33:31.700]  Was Octothorpe?
[33:31.820 --> 33:33.040]  Well, okay, he heard something.
[33:33.420 --> 33:34.160]  You heard something.
[33:34.480 --> 33:34.880]  Octothorpe.
[33:37.280 --> 33:37.680]  Octoport?
[33:38.200 --> 33:38.600]  Thorpe.
[33:39.200 --> 33:40.380]  It's, you know, it's close enough.
[33:40.540 --> 33:41.760]  It's the most we're ever going to get.
[33:42.180 --> 33:43.060]  Alex, how about you?
[33:43.300 --> 33:45.360]  I'm in hood before my time, so...
[33:45.360 --> 33:47.560]  Alex, let Alex say something.
[33:47.700 --> 33:48.700]  Let's see if you can hear him.
[33:50.280 --> 33:53.080]  I'm just so glad I stayed up for this conversation.
[33:53.940 --> 33:56.640]  Were you able to hear that quip from Alex, Rebel?
[33:57.520 --> 33:58.940]  I heard very slightly.
[33:59.400 --> 34:00.380]  Okay, well, it's progress.
[34:00.620 --> 34:01.560]  It's progress of a sort.
[34:01.980 --> 34:02.840]  Are we getting better?
[34:03.060 --> 34:03.580]  I don't know.
[34:03.700 --> 34:03.960]  Are we getting...
[34:03.960 --> 34:07.620]  Well, it's an improvement, but for some reason we've dipped below where we were before the improvement.
[34:08.480 --> 34:09.560]  But that's the nature of improvements.
[34:09.840 --> 34:11.460]  You know, in the end, things will be better.
[34:11.460 --> 34:12.480]  feels so good.
[34:12.640 --> 34:13.720]  Just a question of when the end is.
[34:15.260 --> 34:17.700]  All right, Rebel, I think we have to let you go now because...
[34:18.380 --> 34:19.760]  Was there another comment?
[34:20.440 --> 34:22.700]  Yeah, any concluding comments from you, Rebel?
[34:22.760 --> 34:23.640]  The batteries are getting low.
[34:23.960 --> 34:26.300]  Yeah, the batteries of basketball are getting low, so you better go.
[34:26.880 --> 34:27.680]  No, not that.
[34:27.680 --> 34:28.660]  I'm talking to somebody else.
[34:29.920 --> 34:30.760]  Hold on, maybe...
[34:30.760 --> 34:31.040]  Hold on.
[34:31.720 --> 34:33.580]  Maybe you should call somebody else's radio show.
[34:33.740 --> 34:34.180]  Yeah, maybe you should do that.
[34:34.180 --> 34:35.020]  You want to talk to somebody else.
[34:35.160 --> 34:36.140]  Do you have big plans?
[34:36.300 --> 34:37.720]  We'll go to someone else's basketball game.
[34:37.880 --> 34:39.300]  More adventures other than basketball?
[34:39.520 --> 34:41.100]  Okay, I'm finished playing basketball now.
[34:41.320 --> 34:43.980]  Oh, why didn't you finish before you called us?
[34:45.880 --> 34:46.600]  Good game.
[34:46.800 --> 34:48.200]  That's what most of our listeners do.
[34:48.200 --> 34:50.320]  They play basketball first, then they call us.
[34:50.440 --> 34:51.580]  That's why they sound out of breath.
[34:57.460 --> 35:01.600]  Okay, Rebel, it's time for us to go, but good hearing from you.
[35:01.800 --> 35:03.400]  You got to get something with your volume.
[35:03.580 --> 35:04.980]  You really, I mean, well...
[35:07.240 --> 35:08.800]  We can all criticize each other, Rebel.
[35:08.980 --> 35:11.460]  We can all come up with ideas of how we can improve.
[35:13.460 --> 35:14.080]  Peace, yo.
[35:14.520 --> 35:15.220]  Stay up, yo.
[35:15.420 --> 35:16.200]  Yo, stay up, bro.
[35:16.740 --> 35:17.220]  All right.
[35:17.520 --> 35:17.720]  Wow.
[35:18.460 --> 35:20.980]  I never heard Rebel street-talking before.
[35:22.260 --> 35:23.700]  He fits right in, doesn't he?
[35:25.380 --> 35:25.860]  Uh-huh.
[35:26.300 --> 35:27.820]  Yeah, I was just tapping my homies up.
[35:28.180 --> 35:29.280]  I'm sure you were.
[35:29.540 --> 35:29.660]  Of course.
[35:29.680 --> 35:30.740]  I'm sure that's how it looked.
[35:31.100 --> 35:31.460]  Obviously.
[35:32.520 --> 35:33.420]  As you should be.
[35:33.420 --> 35:34.680]  You could do video.
[35:34.880 --> 35:36.500]  Why don't you do a live video feed?
[35:37.420 --> 35:39.320]  Well, how would we do...
[35:39.320 --> 35:39.860]  Yeah.
[35:41.140 --> 35:41.820]  We're not...
[35:41.820 --> 35:43.220]  Why don't you stream your basketball on video?
[35:43.440 --> 35:44.900]  We're not at that level yet.
[35:45.040 --> 35:45.180]  Yeah.
[35:45.920 --> 35:46.580]  We're working...
[35:46.580 --> 35:50.300]  You know, you have all these YouTubers and people that with studios and...
[35:50.300 --> 35:51.280]  Yeah, exactly.
[35:51.940 --> 35:53.600]  It's YouTube, not you, camera.
[35:54.320 --> 35:55.320]  There's no video here.
[35:58.630 --> 35:59.940]  All right, Rebel, we're going to...
[35:59.940 --> 36:00.860]  We're seriously going now.
[36:00.940 --> 36:01.630]  Keep us updated.
[36:01.900 --> 36:05.960]  Good hearing from you, all right.
[36:07.610 --> 36:08.650]  Well, that was something.
[36:09.090 --> 36:10.920]  I don't know what it was, but it was definitely something.
[36:12.860 --> 36:14.710]  I hadn't tested the calls yet.
[36:14.810 --> 36:15.420]  Okay, all right.
[36:15.500 --> 36:18.810]  And I did rearrange some stuff and this got kind of...
[36:18.810 --> 36:20.630]  Anyway, we were...
[36:20.630 --> 36:24.670]  I understand because we can't test the calls because we're not getting calls and we're not on the air.
[36:24.810 --> 36:26.150]  So how do you test the calls?
[36:26.150 --> 36:29.170]  This was the break-in, you know, shakedown.
[36:29.460 --> 36:29.710]  Yeah.
[36:30.130 --> 36:30.500]  Press...
[36:30.500 --> 36:31.310]  Do you think it's better, though?
[36:31.400 --> 36:32.070]  Do you think...
[36:32.070 --> 36:34.650]  Pressing it into service here in earnest.
[36:34.830 --> 36:35.420]  Do you think it's better?
[36:35.480 --> 36:35.940]  Do you think it'll work?
[36:35.940 --> 36:39.170]  I think it's better, but just some of the levels for some of the...
[36:39.170 --> 36:41.770]  We turned all levels up, so now hopefully people can hear us.
[36:41.920 --> 36:42.980]  Oh, I'm sure it's quite loud.
[36:43.020 --> 36:47.650]  And if you're listening on the archive, I believe Jones fixes the levels so that you might say, what are you talking about?
[36:47.730 --> 36:49.110]  Levels are fine all along.
[36:49.170 --> 36:50.040]  Don't put it all on him.
[36:50.130 --> 36:52.270]  And the only reason the levels are fine is because he fixed them.
[36:52.440 --> 36:52.550]  No.
[36:52.830 --> 36:56.040]  Takes him about six hours to repair all the damage that we did every time we're on the air.
[36:56.400 --> 36:58.690]  Fingers get worked to the raw.
[36:58.810 --> 36:59.500]  Have you seen them?
[36:59.550 --> 37:00.070]  They're disgusting.
[37:00.270 --> 37:00.750]  Oh, my God.
[37:00.960 --> 37:01.920]  That trackpad is made up...
[37:01.920 --> 37:03.040]  He really should have those looked at.
[37:03.210 --> 37:03.730]  It's made out of thin paper.
[37:04.090 --> 37:06.880]  But our health insurance expires so it's not going to get any help from us.
[37:07.000 --> 37:07.170]  Poor guy.
[37:07.440 --> 37:07.590]  Yeah.
[37:08.670 --> 37:10.150]  Oh, sorry, we're still on.
[37:10.500 --> 37:11.610]  I thought we were in break.
[37:11.610 --> 37:12.920]  Why the hell didn't anybody tell me?
[37:12.920 --> 37:19.860]  Okay, our phone number, by the way, folks, this is Off the Hook Overtime, 802-321-4225, 802-321-HACK.
[37:20.360 --> 37:21.310]  That's our telephone number.
[37:21.380 --> 37:21.790]  Give us a call.
[37:21.900 --> 37:22.710]  We'd love to hear from you.
[37:24.380 --> 37:25.550]  Operators are standing by.
[37:26.500 --> 37:27.690]  Yes, Alex, please.
[37:28.650 --> 37:29.420]  Yeah, all right.
[37:29.790 --> 37:34.210]  Unless we get a call within the next, let's say, 30 seconds, I'm going to go to bed.
[37:34.380 --> 37:42.170]  And that threat from Alex comes to us from Corsica, and he will leave if somebody does not call in.
[37:43.090 --> 37:55.050]  No, I don't hear the phone ring, only Kyle has that wired to him, and he will, I think you get a shock or something when a phone call comes in.
[37:55.170 --> 37:58.440]  It doesn't work all the time, but when it does work...
[37:58.440 --> 38:00.270]  Sometimes we get half calls.
[38:00.540 --> 38:01.380]  What's a half call?
[38:01.880 --> 38:05.230]  It's like it starts to be a call and then it disappears.
[38:06.230 --> 38:06.540]  Okay.
[38:07.000 --> 38:08.040]  We get phantom calls.
[38:08.310 --> 38:09.500]  It's the phone network.
[38:10.020 --> 38:11.150]  I don't understand it.
[38:11.230 --> 38:12.630]  It doesn't work the way it used to work.
[38:13.500 --> 38:14.650]  People change their minds.
[38:14.880 --> 38:15.290]  That's okay.
[38:15.520 --> 38:16.000]  That's true, too.
[38:16.810 --> 38:21.250]  Or they make two calls at the same time and it only goes to half of the places.
[38:22.190 --> 38:27.110]  Or they could realize, you know, maybe it's not the best time to call because they're in the middle of a basketball game.
[38:27.230 --> 38:27.830]  Yeah, that's true.
[38:27.940 --> 38:29.020]  And they go back later.
[38:30.490 --> 38:32.500]  Sometimes Google Voice does weird things.
[38:32.710 --> 38:35.050]  Sometimes that toll-free number routes to weird places.
[38:35.520 --> 38:36.480]  It's just rallying.
[38:36.610 --> 38:39.190]  It's like you think we're getting worse and we improve things.
[38:39.360 --> 38:40.500]  The phone company is the same way.
[38:40.650 --> 38:42.770]  They improve things and all of a sudden things don't work anymore.
[38:43.190 --> 38:43.770]  It's true.
[38:45.210 --> 38:46.000]  That is true.
[38:46.460 --> 38:48.360]  If you're playing another sport as well.
[38:48.400 --> 38:49.020]  No, please don't.
[38:49.090 --> 38:51.150]  I don't want to hear any more balls being batted around.
[38:51.830 --> 38:54.770]  I was going to say if it's a quieter sport, maybe you could call us if it's a...
[38:54.770 --> 38:57.130]  Like if you're playing frisbee, that's quiet.
[38:57.830 --> 39:04.070]  Well, there's a lot of grunting and panting and sometimes you get hit on the head with a frisbee.
[39:04.290 --> 39:04.940]  You hear that.
[39:05.310 --> 39:07.420]  Okay, focus on either the call or the sports.
[39:07.610 --> 39:08.270]  It's probably just...
[39:08.270 --> 39:09.290]  Dogs get involved.
[39:09.500 --> 39:10.020]  We shouldn't encourage.
[39:10.520 --> 39:12.440]  Yeah, 802-321-4225.
[39:12.690 --> 39:12.920]  But it's late summer.
[39:13.130 --> 39:14.590]  I mean, people are out doing things.
[39:14.770 --> 39:16.150]  It's the 31st of August.
[39:16.770 --> 39:17.460]  Imagine that.
[39:17.590 --> 39:18.960]  It's the end of August.
[39:19.860 --> 39:20.900]  Alex, go to your room.
[39:21.550 --> 39:22.210]  Very sad.
[39:22.330 --> 39:29.360]  Yeah, I have to make good on my threats here because people are going to take me seriously if I don't stay true to my words.
[39:29.520 --> 39:36.900]  So I'm going to say goodnight to all you guys because I'm going to get up in a few hours with the kids and it's been a pleasure.
[39:37.090 --> 39:38.190]  It's been too long.
[39:38.270 --> 39:40.540]  I hate being off the air for two weeks like that.
[39:40.710 --> 39:45.750]  So we'll see you all again next week and I hope everybody has a great night.
[39:46.130 --> 39:48.070]  Yes, maybe we'll see you in town.
[39:48.070 --> 39:51.750]  We actually went to the city a few days ago and it was pretty awesome.
[39:52.550 --> 39:53.020]  Oh, excellent.
[39:53.110 --> 39:54.590]  Yeah, I'll be in town next week.
[39:55.230 --> 39:56.690]  If you're around, just give me a rest.
[39:58.290 --> 40:01.050]  And I will talk to everybody next week.
[40:01.190 --> 40:02.330]  Have a wonderful weekend.
[40:02.690 --> 40:03.630]  Happy September.
[40:04.410 --> 40:10.460]  Happy first Friday of the month and good luck with the in-person 2,600 meetings for Avangila tomorrow.
[40:11.610 --> 40:12.050]  Bonjour.
[40:12.790 --> 40:13.590]  Safe travel.
[40:13.810 --> 40:15.730]  Is that how they say it over there in Corsica?
[40:16.610 --> 40:17.710]  Talk to everybody soon.
[40:17.920 --> 40:18.250]  Au revoir.
[40:18.520 --> 40:18.650]  Hi, Alex.
[40:19.130 --> 40:19.570]  Bonsoir.
[40:20.310 --> 40:20.460]  Yeah.
[40:20.860 --> 40:22.810]  Although it's not real French they speak.
[40:22.940 --> 40:24.050]  It's a different kind of French.
[40:24.500 --> 40:25.070]  Oh, okay.
[40:25.070 --> 40:25.920]  Or a different kind of Italian.
[40:26.170 --> 40:26.920]  It's a dialect.
[40:27.150 --> 40:27.940]  It's a dialect, yeah.
[40:28.460 --> 40:32.380]  So Alex said he was going to leave if people didn't call, which I fully respect.
[40:32.380 --> 40:37.130]  I was going to say, if people don't call, I could talk about the sunburn I got this past weekend.
[40:37.330 --> 40:38.420]  Okay, if you do that, I'll leave.
[40:39.460 --> 40:41.230]  No, it's not.
[40:41.460 --> 40:44.210]  I just, you know, I feel your pain.
[40:44.400 --> 40:45.170]  You got a sunburn?
[40:45.250 --> 40:45.690]  That's awful.
[40:46.150 --> 40:47.730]  I know people still got sunburns.
[40:47.770 --> 40:49.630]  I thought we don't get sunburns anymore.
[40:49.630 --> 40:56.130]  I put on so much sunblock and yet got completely fried.
[40:56.650 --> 40:59.290]  So don't forget to reapply, people.
[40:59.540 --> 41:01.420]  That's the best advice I can give you.
[41:01.570 --> 41:01.830]  Yes.
[41:02.250 --> 41:03.400]  Reapply often.
[41:04.440 --> 41:05.790]  Best of luck with that.
[41:06.130 --> 41:09.270]  Was it just from being outside or were you sunbathing somewhere?
[41:10.520 --> 41:13.630]  I was away this past weekend.
[41:13.630 --> 41:25.920]  I had a little reunion getaway with my best friends from college and and we were sitting by the pool at our hotel and I got burnt.
[41:26.440 --> 41:28.090]  Yeah, you don't have to go to the beach to get burnt.
[41:28.150 --> 41:28.880]  You can do it at a pool.
[41:29.690 --> 41:30.250]  It's true.
[41:30.520 --> 41:31.070]  It's very true.
[41:31.230 --> 41:31.380]  Yep.
[41:31.880 --> 41:32.040]  Yep.
[41:32.400 --> 41:33.070]  All nice and legal.
[41:33.520 --> 41:33.670]  Yeah.
[41:34.210 --> 41:34.460]  All right.
[41:34.550 --> 41:36.960]  So no slapping on the back for you.
[41:37.770 --> 41:40.090]  That's what people always did to me when I got sunburned.
[41:42.360 --> 41:42.980]  Bad memory.
[41:43.190 --> 41:44.880]  I haven't gotten a sunburn in ages though.
[41:46.480 --> 41:47.920]  And then this is...
[41:47.920 --> 41:49.400]  You get to the point where you're peeling.
[41:49.710 --> 41:50.190]  Remember that?
[41:50.550 --> 41:50.920]  It's...
[41:50.920 --> 41:51.400]  Oh boy.
[41:52.150 --> 41:52.790]  It's awful.
[41:53.630 --> 41:54.380]  Starting to get there.
[41:54.790 --> 41:57.730]  Let's pick up a phone if anybody's there.
[41:57.860 --> 41:59.590]  If not, we can end early.
[41:59.690 --> 42:00.730]  It's entirely possible.
[42:01.990 --> 42:03.420]  We might have a call.
[42:03.570 --> 42:03.960]  I don't know.
[42:04.090 --> 42:07.810]  It might be technically impossible to talk to this call.
[42:07.980 --> 42:09.020]  Try and we'll see you.
[42:09.170 --> 42:10.460]  The worst that happens is we get buzzing.
[42:10.670 --> 42:10.920]  Gently.
[42:11.130 --> 42:11.770]  Be careful with this.
[42:11.770 --> 42:12.090]  I'll try.
[42:12.670 --> 42:13.250]  And good evening.
[42:13.400 --> 42:14.050]  You're on off-took overtime.
[42:14.190 --> 42:14.610]  Is anyone there?
[42:16.090 --> 42:16.420]  Yes.
[42:16.480 --> 42:16.690]  Hello.
[42:17.110 --> 42:19.110]  Is that the Hacker Psychic Hotline?
[42:19.330 --> 42:19.540]  Yeah.
[42:19.550 --> 42:20.630]  I'd like to get a reading.
[42:20.830 --> 42:21.440]  You got us.
[42:21.610 --> 42:21.860]  Okay.
[42:21.860 --> 42:29.420]  I am picking up a strong vibe of, um, um, gosh, uh, humanity.
[42:29.630 --> 42:31.670]  You've got something to do with the human race.
[42:31.690 --> 42:32.480]  Is that true?
[42:34.170 --> 42:35.210]  Yeah, that's true.
[42:35.360 --> 42:36.730]  Yeah, you're spot on so far.
[42:36.730 --> 42:37.690]  Okay, all right.
[42:38.270 --> 42:40.630]  Um, and you were sad once.
[42:41.980 --> 42:42.710]  Is that right?
[42:42.810 --> 42:43.570]  Oh, that is true.
[42:43.590 --> 42:45.940]  I have been sad this year for reasons.
[42:46.630 --> 42:50.150]  Okay, well, not necessarily this year, just, you know, at any point, you might have been sad.
[42:50.400 --> 42:52.270]  Um, but you've also been happy.
[42:52.270 --> 42:53.480]  I'm getting that as well.
[42:54.830 --> 43:00.630]  Well, I'm happy I got through because I've been trying for quite some time and it seemed like the line was not caught up properly.
[43:00.900 --> 43:02.360]  Oh, that can happen.
[43:02.520 --> 43:03.110]  That can happen.
[43:03.500 --> 43:04.420]  It was clogged.
[43:04.500 --> 43:05.170]  And, and...
[43:05.170 --> 43:05.290]  Anyway.
[43:05.290 --> 43:06.830]  Where, might I ask, are you calling from?
[43:06.920 --> 43:08.040]  Because I really don't know anything.
[43:09.650 --> 43:12.710]  Well, I'm ringing from the UK and London.
[43:13.020 --> 43:13.420]  Okay.
[43:14.690 --> 43:15.940]  That, that, that checks out.
[43:15.980 --> 43:17.110]  And I've got a reading for you.
[43:17.440 --> 43:18.540]  Okay, what's the reading?
[43:20.050 --> 43:22.860]  Right, I can tell you something about a future of a Friday.
[43:23.230 --> 43:25.440]  There's hacker meetings happening in the UK.
[43:25.940 --> 43:26.360]  No.
[43:28.270 --> 43:28.750]  Yes.
[43:29.040 --> 43:32.360]  But, but wait, it's already Friday there.
[43:32.480 --> 43:33.590]  No, wait, it's not already Friday there.
[43:33.690 --> 43:34.540]  It's Friday in China.
[43:34.540 --> 43:35.630]  No, where is it Friday?
[43:35.860 --> 43:36.790]  It's got to be Friday somewhere.
[43:37.090 --> 43:37.250]  Thursday.
[43:37.250 --> 43:38.500]  Not Friday anywhere yet, I don't know.
[43:38.500 --> 43:38.860]  Not yet.
[43:39.040 --> 43:39.770]  We're still on Thursday.
[43:40.000 --> 43:42.310]  By the way, this is Zap from London 2600.
[43:43.210 --> 43:43.730]  It's Zap.
[43:43.900 --> 43:44.900]  London 2600.
[43:44.960 --> 43:45.330]  Is it Zap?
[43:45.500 --> 43:46.000]  Are you Zap?
[43:46.770 --> 43:47.770]  Yeah, it's Zap.
[43:47.920 --> 43:49.060]  I'm just playing around with the voices.
[43:49.270 --> 43:51.230]  That, that, Kyle, he has a reading on you apparently.
[43:51.500 --> 43:51.810]  In the flesh.
[43:52.020 --> 43:52.210]  Wow.
[43:52.230 --> 43:53.120]  Oh, I heard him say it.
[43:53.570 --> 43:54.940]  How are things going, Zap?
[43:56.660 --> 43:59.640]  For me, personally, not good, but that's not the reason why I'm phoning.
[43:59.980 --> 44:00.960]  Hmm, I'm sorry to hear that.
[44:02.270 --> 44:03.290]  I hope it gets better.
[44:03.560 --> 44:05.000]  Yeah, 2022 has not been a good year.
[44:05.180 --> 44:06.640]  Yeah, it hasn't been a good year for anybody, though.
[44:07.180 --> 44:08.440]  It's, you know, a lot of company.
[44:08.810 --> 44:10.710]  It's a lot of sadness and misery.
[44:10.900 --> 44:11.560]  I can relate.
[44:11.750 --> 44:14.210]  Maybe not on the same scale, but, yeah.
[44:15.310 --> 44:17.620]  We've been suppressing a bit of that ourselves.
[44:17.810 --> 44:17.960]  Yeah.
[44:17.960 --> 44:19.060]  Well, some variations.
[44:19.180 --> 44:20.180]  A lot of anger and rage.
[44:20.860 --> 44:21.920]  Bitterness and things like that.
[44:22.180 --> 44:25.900]  Well, yeah, I can understand for America, but, no, unfortunately, my father died this year.
[44:26.040 --> 44:26.750]  Oh, I'm really sorry.
[44:26.770 --> 44:30.180]  And a fellow London 2600 hacker's father died this year.
[44:30.440 --> 44:30.660]  Wow.
[44:30.660 --> 44:34.620]  And somebody else's hacker, was it, that died as well.
[44:34.730 --> 44:38.080]  So, it's like, this comes in threes, but, anyway, never mind.
[44:38.290 --> 44:38.880]  Let's hope so.
[44:38.980 --> 44:39.860]  Let's hope it's only threes.
[44:41.880 --> 44:44.960]  Okay, well, you know I only phone when I've got information for you guys.
[44:45.080 --> 44:45.830]  Okay, let's hear it.
[44:46.560 --> 44:48.250]  So, I just wanted to pass on some info.
[44:49.920 --> 44:55.440]  All the meetings listed on the website, 2600 meeting website, are still going.
[44:55.710 --> 44:55.880]  Mm-hmm.
[44:55.940 --> 44:57.440]  But we've got two more to add.
[44:57.770 --> 44:58.080]  Okay.
[44:58.520 --> 45:07.730]  So, for England, we've got the Bournemouth 2600, which has restarted, and is now running on a Friday instead of a Saturday, so they should be official.
[45:07.730 --> 45:10.770]  I think they've emailed meetings at 2600 to do that.
[45:10.900 --> 45:14.980]  Okay, if they've done that, then they will be listed by tomorrow, I think.
[45:15.080 --> 45:20.180]  But let's make sure they've done that, or they've tweeted directly to 2600 meetings with a DM.
[45:20.730 --> 45:22.810]  Yeah, I would have tweeted something personally.
[45:23.060 --> 45:24.440]  I just wanted to let everyone know.
[45:25.250 --> 45:29.420]  And apparently, Ireland, Belfast has restarted, so they should be running on Friday as well.
[45:29.600 --> 45:29.940]  Awesome.
[45:30.180 --> 45:30.420]  Wow.
[45:30.560 --> 45:31.830]  So, there's two to add to the list.
[45:32.770 --> 45:34.020]  That's fantastic to hear.
[45:34.080 --> 45:39.440]  And I just hope more and more meetings get started because, boy, you know, we were decimated by COVID.
[45:39.680 --> 45:47.210]  I mean, this is the least of it, our meetings being affected, but it's just good to see people reemerging and having a new sort of energy to it.
[45:48.680 --> 45:49.920]  Yeah, well, I am trying.
[45:50.080 --> 45:56.230]  I'm trying to get two more in the UK and one in Italy, but it's been slow to set up for whatever reason.
[45:56.380 --> 45:58.140]  How are you managing to pull one off in Italy?
[45:59.640 --> 46:00.860]  I have contacts.
[46:01.180 --> 46:01.480]  Do you?
[46:01.620 --> 46:09.120]  I know, somebody that came to the London 2600 and they were so impressed with London 2600's meetings that they want to do something back home, so that's what they do.
[46:09.230 --> 46:12.270]  I was so impressed with London's meetings when I attended one of London's meetings.
[46:12.480 --> 46:14.880]  I would have started meetings back here had I not already done that.
[46:16.480 --> 46:20.980]  Well, unfortunately, I haven't been to the meeting for at least three months, maybe four months now.
[46:21.160 --> 46:21.290]  Yeah.
[46:22.520 --> 46:27.040]  Are they still downstairs in that shopping center?
[46:28.980 --> 46:30.360]  No, you mean the Trocadero.
[46:30.500 --> 46:32.160]  We have stopped going to the Trocadero.
[46:32.400 --> 46:43.730]  We are meeting at a phone box next to the pub that we normally go to, so we still have our public place, and normally the second venue where we move on to is the bar, the pub.
[46:44.000 --> 46:44.120]  Okay.
[46:44.730 --> 46:52.040]  We still want that public space in case we have any youngsters turn up, so we can change the second venue and go to something else in different.
[46:52.750 --> 46:55.730]  If they can get in touch ahead of time, it would be even more useful.
[46:56.160 --> 46:58.580]  But we still want that public space outside.
[46:58.960 --> 47:04.640]  That's why we have Twitter accounts so that people can send messages and things like that, but it's great to have that public space.
[47:04.750 --> 47:07.440]  You can always leave a note or something if you wind up going somewhere else.
[47:07.600 --> 47:07.750]  Yeah.
[47:07.750 --> 47:10.360]  But you said a phone box, which to us is a pay phone.
[47:10.460 --> 47:12.730]  Does that mean you actually still have pay phones that work in London?
[47:14.700 --> 47:16.250]  Unfortunately, the pay phone doesn't work.
[47:16.250 --> 47:17.730]  It's actually screwed shut.
[47:18.940 --> 47:20.420]  So that we...
[47:20.850 --> 47:21.960]  I think we gain access.
[47:22.100 --> 47:22.860]  You know what hackers are like.
[47:23.040 --> 47:25.500]  I found out the phone inside does not work.
[47:25.750 --> 47:26.860]  It's not connected.
[47:27.120 --> 47:27.330]  Okay.
[47:27.680 --> 47:33.210]  I don't know if we can talk to anyone about that to get it reconnected, but unfortunately, no, you can't go in the phone box.
[47:33.420 --> 47:34.420]  Well, there is a phone in there.
[47:34.500 --> 47:35.080]  That's a start.
[47:36.520 --> 47:36.880]  Yep.
[47:37.750 --> 47:41.680]  And as you said, it's mandatory to turn up to the meetings on Friday.
[47:41.860 --> 47:42.160]  Yes.
[47:42.310 --> 47:43.360]  I should be attending.
[47:43.680 --> 47:44.480]  The September...
[47:44.480 --> 47:45.420]  I haven't been for a few months.
[47:45.600 --> 47:46.790]  September meetings are mandatory.
[47:47.100 --> 47:47.500]  That's...
[47:47.500 --> 47:49.750]  I'm just going to spread that around until it takes...
[47:49.750 --> 47:50.420]  Yep.
[47:50.540 --> 47:57.060]  No, it should be because normally it's the big meeting after people have gone to DEFCON, after they would have gone to Hope in person.
[47:57.960 --> 48:02.330]  It's the first meeting that we've got where everyone's going to be back from all the things they've been doing.
[48:02.500 --> 48:04.120]  You know, Hacker Vacation, Hacker Summit.
[48:04.310 --> 48:04.580]  Yes.
[48:04.940 --> 48:05.100]  Yes.
[48:05.250 --> 48:05.640]  So, yeah.
[48:06.580 --> 48:10.770]  And maybe the first one before they go back to school or after they've gone back to school or something like that.
[48:12.420 --> 48:15.920]  It probably would be the first one before people go to school.
[48:16.660 --> 48:20.750]  Unfortunately, everyone's over the age of school age unless you mean university or college.
[48:20.940 --> 48:21.180]  Yes.
[48:22.310 --> 48:22.940]  But, yeah.
[48:23.270 --> 48:23.810]  Or teachers.
[48:25.730 --> 48:26.580]  Yeah, teachers.
[48:26.770 --> 48:27.520]  Yeah, there could be teachers.
[48:27.660 --> 48:33.520]  Yeah, I would like to say something about people that you haven't heard from for a while that used to go to the meetings.
[48:33.520 --> 48:41.440]  Will people just phone up and check on their buddies to make sure they're okay because we've got one guy who hasn't been to a meeting for a very long time.
[48:41.710 --> 48:41.730]  Okay.
[48:42.160 --> 48:49.200]  And I'd like to give a shout out to Diesel Dragon to try and convince him to come to a meeting for obvious reasons to him.
[48:49.440 --> 48:53.080]  He doesn't want to come to London and he does actually have to travel quite a distance.
[48:53.700 --> 48:58.940]  And I've been trying to get him to go to a meeting and he just will not go to the meeting for whatever reason he's got.
[48:59.750 --> 49:12.080]  So, I just like everyone that if there's people that used to go to your meeting and is no longer going, just reach out, check on them, see if they're okay, see how they're dealing with things because mental health has really gone down since COVID.
[49:12.770 --> 49:16.620]  So, you know, I just want to give a shout out to everyone that used to go but hasn't been for a while.
[49:16.770 --> 49:17.980]  Just check on them, see if they're okay.
[49:17.980 --> 49:18.480]  Absolutely.
[49:18.750 --> 49:20.830]  You know, this has affected us in so many different ways.
[49:20.980 --> 49:38.560]  Like I mentioned before, Kyle and I were in Manhattan a few days ago and, you know, we were kind of anxious about going in there because of all the, you know, the fear that's being spread by various political people or just those who want to portray things in a certain way.
[49:38.730 --> 49:41.600]  And when we got there, it was the most amazing place.
[49:41.830 --> 49:42.580]  It was open.
[49:42.730 --> 49:43.200]  It was friendly.
[49:43.200 --> 49:44.440]  It was vibrant.
[49:44.520 --> 49:46.640]  And I really felt a sense of renewal.
[49:46.640 --> 49:55.200]  And I imagine the same thing will be happening in London, maybe not everywhere but certainly in a lot of places because human spirit will come back and survive.
[49:55.880 --> 49:56.920]  And it's important.
[49:57.100 --> 49:57.270]  Yeah.
[49:58.440 --> 50:03.200]  I was going to say I'm really looking forward to Bournemouth restarting because they used to run on a Saturday.
[50:03.400 --> 50:08.770]  It meant some of the London crew could actually go to Bournemouth on the weekend and have two meets per weekend.
[50:09.660 --> 50:11.770]  So then restarting is really good.
[50:11.770 --> 50:19.360]  Plus it's a university town so hopefully they get some students that are studying computer science computer security they'll maybe try and pop along.
[50:19.580 --> 50:20.790]  Now how far is Bournemouth?
[50:22.680 --> 50:23.700]  Oh, don't ask me.
[50:23.790 --> 50:24.540]  I don't know miles.
[50:24.730 --> 50:25.700]  I mean, this is my own country.
[50:25.880 --> 50:27.040]  Well, I mean, is it...
[50:27.040 --> 50:28.230]  I know it's southwest of England.
[50:28.480 --> 50:29.660]  Is it on the other side of the country?
[50:29.790 --> 50:30.940]  I mean, is it a day trip?
[50:31.040 --> 50:31.860]  Is it an hour?
[50:32.910 --> 50:39.680]  All I can say is on a coach from London, Victoria it takes roughly about two hours to get to Bournemouth by coach.
[50:39.880 --> 50:40.080]  Okay.
[50:40.080 --> 50:45.880]  So if they're doing the speed limit which is about 70 miles an hour, two hours, 140 miles, I don't know.
[50:46.120 --> 50:46.330]  Uh-huh.
[50:46.440 --> 50:46.660]  Okay.
[50:46.790 --> 50:47.080]  All right.
[50:49.810 --> 50:51.290]  But yeah, that should be really good.
[50:52.060 --> 50:56.120]  And the last thing on my mind, I did actually attend Hope virtually.
[50:56.520 --> 50:56.880]  Oh, cool.
[50:57.400 --> 50:59.580]  I'm just wondering, do I get anything for it?
[50:59.580 --> 51:03.100]  Because I haven't got any email, so I'm wondering, do I get a ticket sent through or is there something?
[51:03.230 --> 51:04.750]  Because last time you did it was in 2020.
[51:04.750 --> 51:08.520]  We got, I think it was a face mask was sent through.
[51:10.860 --> 51:18.560]  I think officially the virtual attendance really was just getting the ability to participate and ask questions and stuff.
[51:19.870 --> 51:29.460]  And I think as far as stuff, I mean, because the ticketing and stuff, we didn't really, we didn't need you to have that, so it wasn't something that we budgeted for.
[51:29.580 --> 51:32.120]  But maybe we can look around.
[51:32.310 --> 51:35.640]  I can't promise anything, though, because a lot of that stuff went quickly.
[51:35.790 --> 51:42.000]  People took programs and if we have an extra program, maybe we can figure out one for the UK 2600 meeting.
[51:42.120 --> 51:44.420]  Make sure you get some physical...
[51:44.420 --> 51:44.480]  No, no, no.
[51:44.480 --> 51:45.560]  Don't do anything special.
[51:45.930 --> 51:48.580]  Yeah, I can't promise because I don't even know if we have it.
[51:48.580 --> 51:50.440]  We absolutely will do something special.
[51:50.770 --> 51:51.880]  I mean, you always do something special.
[51:52.000 --> 51:52.920]  You're asking, though.
[51:53.020 --> 51:53.500]  You're asking.
[51:53.560 --> 51:54.750]  How can we not do something special?
[51:55.040 --> 51:55.880]  Oh, my God.
[51:56.180 --> 51:57.810]  It doesn't mean I was expecting something.
[51:57.960 --> 51:58.330]  Well, no, I mean...
[51:58.330 --> 51:59.330]  Oh, look, don't start on that.
[51:59.330 --> 52:05.710]  I still haven't got my stuff from 2020 from being in the talent show because I forgot to send an email because I'm really not that bothered.
[52:05.880 --> 52:07.520]  You know, I've got other things on my mind.
[52:07.730 --> 52:12.330]  Like running 2600 in Europe and family problems and other stuff.
[52:12.480 --> 52:16.680]  So, you know, like I said, I only ring in when I've got information for you guys.
[52:16.810 --> 52:19.420]  Otherwise, you know, I'm still around, but, you know...
[52:19.790 --> 52:23.600]  Well, we will be there at some point and we will be sure to bring lots of cool stuff for you.
[52:24.160 --> 52:24.520]  Definitely.
[52:25.680 --> 52:27.680]  Mate, bring it down for the rest of the gang.
[52:27.810 --> 52:28.400]  Okay, fine.
[52:28.810 --> 52:30.860]  I do like looking after the crew, yeah?
[52:31.580 --> 52:37.330]  But, you know, especially the newbies because, you know, when the newbies turn up and you turn up, they're like, does this happen every month?
[52:37.360 --> 52:39.310]  I said, we wish it did, but no, it doesn't.
[52:39.420 --> 52:40.540]  It's a special occasion.
[52:40.940 --> 52:44.100]  It will never be this good in your lifetime for a meeting.
[52:44.270 --> 52:45.770]  Well, that's not what you tell them.
[52:46.580 --> 52:47.730]  No, you tell them it's always...
[52:47.730 --> 52:48.100]  Oh, come on.
[52:48.120 --> 52:48.810]  You've got to be honest.
[52:48.960 --> 52:49.600]  You don't lie.
[52:50.090 --> 52:56.120]  But, no, normally we try and make everyone's first time really special and they've always said that the first time they came down was really brilliant.
[52:56.250 --> 53:05.750]  We say, right, you have to remember the first time you came down what year, what month or at least the year because after a few years you tend to forget and say, oh, I first turned up in 1997.
[53:06.420 --> 53:07.680]  It's like, oh, yeah, what was it like?
[53:07.730 --> 53:08.600]  Yeah, it was pretty good, whatever.
[53:09.080 --> 53:09.380]  But, yeah.
[53:10.270 --> 53:13.100]  All right, listen, I'm going to get off the line so other people can phone in.
[53:13.500 --> 53:18.310]  Just wanted to give you the news and I'll be in touch if I've got any more news.
[53:18.460 --> 53:22.400]  Say hi to everybody out there for us and we will see you at some point for sure.
[53:23.620 --> 53:25.810]  I look forward to it and I think everyone will.
[53:25.980 --> 53:26.440]  All right.
[53:26.750 --> 53:27.520]  Good hearing from you.
[53:28.100 --> 53:28.270]  All right.
[53:28.330 --> 53:28.730]  All the best.
[53:29.020 --> 53:29.540]  Bye, everyone.
[53:30.180 --> 53:30.660]  Thanks, Zap.
[53:31.710 --> 53:33.380]  And that was Zap from London.
[53:33.600 --> 53:45.980]  He is so right just on a couple of those points and just checking in on people and, yeah, just getting back with some of the meetings and stuff like that.
[53:46.140 --> 53:57.960]  But, you know, the people out there that came and supported the event virtually or otherwise, I mean, we always want to make sure people have a good time and stuff.
[53:58.700 --> 54:02.700]  And people appreciate the amount of work we put into it and stuff.
[54:04.380 --> 54:06.200]  We're still recovering from it too, by the way.
[54:06.440 --> 54:07.180]  We're just taking stock.
[54:07.520 --> 54:10.700]  We've got all the videos up and, you know, I'm very happy that worked out.
[54:11.330 --> 54:15.790]  But there's still lots and lots of things to take care of that we're still doing.
[54:15.980 --> 54:17.330]  But it was worth it.
[54:17.480 --> 54:18.380]  It was worth every bit.
[54:18.580 --> 54:37.200]  Just starting anew, getting back together and sharing stories and experiences, stuff that people have been going through and putting things back together and in some approximation where we're all just really important things for us to do.
[54:38.140 --> 54:43.900]  Do we want to wait for one more phone call or do we want to just nod off because I'm getting really tired?
[54:44.810 --> 54:46.040]  Are there any more coming in?
[54:46.120 --> 54:46.480]  Excuse me.
[54:48.230 --> 54:48.710]  No?
[54:49.230 --> 54:52.270]  I think we're pretty much out of time.
[54:52.560 --> 54:54.330]  I don't think we...
[54:54.330 --> 54:55.230]  Okay.
[54:56.440 --> 54:58.460]  Rob, Gila, any final thoughts from you?
[54:59.620 --> 55:03.310]  Well, it was really great to hear from Zap.
[55:04.460 --> 55:09.600]  And, yeah, check out your local 2600 meeting at 2600.com slash meetings.
[55:09.770 --> 55:12.290]  If there isn't one near you, you can start one near you.
[55:12.380 --> 55:13.200]  The info is right there.
[55:14.640 --> 55:15.120]  Yes.
[55:15.290 --> 55:15.830]  Yes, it is.
[55:16.480 --> 55:20.040]  And, of course, for those of you who have never been to a meeting before, it's not really like a meeting.
[55:20.180 --> 55:20.710]  It's a gathering.
[55:20.960 --> 55:25.620]  You know, you just talk to whoever you want to talk to and share information.
[55:26.400 --> 55:27.420]  It'll change your life.
[55:27.540 --> 55:28.460]  It can.
[55:28.750 --> 55:29.770]  In a good way.
[55:30.020 --> 55:33.900]  That was the first thing that struck me in what Zap was saying.
[55:35.270 --> 55:37.120]  It's changed a lot of people's lives.
[55:37.230 --> 55:38.250]  They've met people.
[55:38.400 --> 55:45.900]  They've learned about things they didn't know they'd be good at and got put on to new opportunities Yeah, absolutely.
[55:46.400 --> 55:46.830]  Take part.
[55:47.020 --> 55:47.710]  Take part in the meetings.
[55:48.120 --> 55:50.250]  And, again, 2600.com slash meetings.
[55:50.560 --> 55:51.680]  All the info is there.
[55:51.960 --> 55:52.360]  All right.
[55:52.750 --> 55:54.580]  Good reconnecting.
[55:54.640 --> 55:56.500]  And I think we'll be back next week.
[55:56.750 --> 55:58.210]  Same time, same place.
[55:58.420 --> 55:58.790]  Good night, everybody.