[00:00.000 --> 00:01.540]  Yes, it's coming up.
[00:03.100 --> 00:08.780]  Here on WBAI New York, 99.5 FM and WBAI.org online.
[00:09.200 --> 00:17.400]  Had no reason why I did a pregnant pause there as if I was about to announce something special, but no, not really.
[00:17.620 --> 00:20.940]  But all I will say, it is 7 p.m.
[00:21.040 --> 00:23.040]  Stay tuned for Off The Hook, coming up.
[00:34.430 --> 00:35.370]  We're sorry.
[00:35.470 --> 00:41.710]  The number you have reached, 99.5 WBAI, is now Off The Hook.
[02:28.610 --> 02:31.570]  And a very good evening, everybody.
[02:31.570 --> 02:36.510]  The program is Off The Hook, the show that occasionally is heard.
[02:36.970 --> 02:40.290]  At this time, on Wednesdays, and this is one of those times.
[02:40.410 --> 02:43.170]  So if you're listening right now, it's your lucky day.
[02:43.690 --> 02:45.450]  Yes, Off The Hook is back.
[02:45.610 --> 02:48.230]  We were not on last three weeks, I don't believe.
[02:48.630 --> 02:49.770]  So here we are.
[02:50.390 --> 02:51.130]  This is Emmanuel.
[02:51.990 --> 02:53.690]  Over there is Kyle?
[02:54.030 --> 02:54.670]  Yes, indeed.
[02:54.850 --> 02:55.250]  I got the name.
[02:55.330 --> 02:55.490]  Okay.
[02:55.670 --> 02:55.850]  That's me.
[02:55.850 --> 02:57.450]  It's been so long, I almost forgot your name.
[02:57.510 --> 02:57.990]  That's the right name.
[02:58.750 --> 03:05.770]  Unfortunately, the other co-hosts of the program have since retired, because it's been such a long time since we've been on...
[03:05.770 --> 03:07.010]  Yeah, I'm going to keep this up all hour.
[03:07.110 --> 03:09.770]  I'm going to be rubbing it in all hour long.
[03:10.710 --> 03:13.930]  But no, we do have some special guests tonight that...
[03:14.350 --> 03:16.510]  Well, funny story, we'll tell you a little bit later.
[03:16.510 --> 03:24.670]  But joining us from, I believe, the German Republic is Mitch Altman.
[03:25.090 --> 03:25.970]  Is that correct?
[03:28.710 --> 03:31.630]  I see his mouth moving, but I don't hear any words.
[03:33.750 --> 03:34.270]  Okay.
[03:35.550 --> 03:38.250]  We've gotten good at this, but apparently not good enough.
[03:39.790 --> 03:45.850]  Yeah, somebody's muted somewhere along the line and figured in the last three years we should have gotten this right.
[03:46.770 --> 03:48.030]  I want to try again.
[03:48.230 --> 03:51.430]  We have the potential here on our end.
[03:51.550 --> 03:53.070]  We have Mitch's connection.
[03:54.650 --> 03:56.650]  Anything else that we could possibly be muting?
[03:56.810 --> 04:00.370]  Mitch, you have to say something, otherwise we don't know if you're...
[04:00.370 --> 04:01.370]  No, he's still muted.
[04:02.330 --> 04:02.770]  Okay.
[04:02.990 --> 04:06.450]  Well, while we're figuring that out, we have another guest.
[04:06.770 --> 04:08.010]  This is why we have two guests.
[04:09.130 --> 04:12.550]  And coming from the wilds of the Yukon, we have Greg Newby.
[04:13.670 --> 04:15.070]  Hey, can you hear me now?
[04:15.070 --> 04:16.390]  I hear you fine.
[04:16.890 --> 04:18.270]  It just goes to show...
[04:18.890 --> 04:20.170]  It's a pleasure to be here.
[04:20.330 --> 04:25.630]  I am in Yukon, and I am very interested in hearing more about this off-the-hook retirement plan.
[04:25.710 --> 04:27.650]  It sounds like something maybe I could buy into.
[04:27.730 --> 04:28.910]  No, you don't want that.
[04:29.110 --> 04:30.190]  It's not a good plan.
[04:31.470 --> 04:38.630]  But this is testament to the fact that the telephone always is dependable and always works in the end.
[04:39.170 --> 04:42.650]  So we're talking to Greg on a good old-fashioned telephone line.
[04:42.790 --> 04:44.130]  Are you on a cell phone or a landline?
[04:45.070 --> 04:46.630]  So this is an interesting story.
[04:46.810 --> 04:50.610]  I'm on what you would call a landline, except it's actually a radio telephone.
[04:51.070 --> 04:57.610]  So I'm not connected to the electrical grid or the telephone grid, but I am on a regular phone with a regular dial tone.
[04:59.330 --> 04:59.690]  Wow.
[04:59.850 --> 05:00.890]  Well, that's great.
[05:00.930 --> 05:02.150]  And we have the same here.
[05:02.270 --> 05:05.210]  So it's basically kind of a landline-to-landline situation.
[05:07.450 --> 05:07.810]  Amazing.
[05:08.350 --> 05:09.250]  Glad you made it.
[05:09.390 --> 05:12.630]  And I want to try again with this other technology.
[05:12.630 --> 05:13.270]  What's going on?
[05:13.410 --> 05:14.890]  Hey, Mitch has a cat in back of him.
[05:14.930 --> 05:15.410]  Look at that.
[05:15.670 --> 05:17.610]  Well, that's, I think, the engineer.
[05:17.790 --> 05:18.590]  Well, that's the problem.
[05:18.730 --> 05:20.750]  That's definitely why it's not working.
[05:20.750 --> 05:25.490]  But we just have to bypass the cat somehow and get his audio back.
[05:25.670 --> 05:26.510]  The video is great.
[05:26.790 --> 05:27.590]  Yeah, so I have audio now.
[05:27.870 --> 05:28.430]  I hear you.
[05:28.550 --> 05:29.030]  I hear you.
[05:29.270 --> 05:29.710]  Mitch.
[05:30.070 --> 05:36.430]  Skype automatically connected me to the mic it thought was good and not the mic that I normally use.
[05:36.570 --> 05:39.670]  So the cat has, is not the problem.
[05:39.950 --> 05:41.250]  It's the technology itself.
[05:41.250 --> 05:44.010]  Well, the cat literally just jumped up on the table while you were talking.
[05:44.150 --> 05:45.150]  You might have heard the thud.
[05:45.990 --> 05:50.090]  So the cat, if the cat is not the problem now, it will be the problem sometime this hour.
[05:50.090 --> 05:52.010]  Boy, that cat has energy.
[05:52.590 --> 05:53.290]  That cat took off.
[05:53.390 --> 05:56.150]  And there was, you know how in the cartoons there's like a little puff of smoke?
[05:56.450 --> 05:57.870]  I saw the puff of smoke.
[05:58.010 --> 05:58.550]  That's incredible.
[05:58.950 --> 06:03.390]  Yeah, the Warner Brothers people definitely had cats.
[06:05.270 --> 06:06.710]  Greetings from Berlin.
[06:07.170 --> 06:08.330]  Berlin in Germany.
[06:08.330 --> 06:09.210]  I got the country right.
[06:09.310 --> 06:09.690]  That's great.
[06:09.830 --> 06:12.270]  And Greg is in the Yukon.
[06:12.610 --> 06:13.850]  We're here in New York.
[06:14.430 --> 06:16.970]  So basically, we're covering a good part of the planet.
[06:16.970 --> 06:18.670]  So that's good to know.
[06:19.310 --> 06:20.350]  Now, funny story.
[06:20.430 --> 06:21.530]  I said I'd tell a funny story.
[06:22.030 --> 06:23.990]  We weren't on last week.
[06:24.110 --> 06:25.530]  We were preempted at the last minute.
[06:26.150 --> 06:27.330]  Literally the last minute.
[06:27.410 --> 06:28.310]  And there's a story behind that.
[06:28.830 --> 06:37.730]  You might have heard that we moved our transmitter a couple of years ago from the Price-Gouging Empire State Building to the much nicer Four Times Square.
[06:37.730 --> 06:41.070]  We're a little bit further north in the city, but not quite as high.
[06:41.830 --> 06:45.770]  But unfortunately, there's a little feature that comes along with that new site.
[06:45.930 --> 06:49.230]  They were doing maintenance for about, it felt like a month.
[06:49.450 --> 06:59.790]  It might have just been a few weeks, but it was in the middle of the day, literally from around 8 in the morning to around 5 in the afternoon for an entire week at a time.
[07:00.830 --> 07:07.390]  And, you know, you don't have to know a lot about radio to know that pretty much cuts into your broadcast day something fierce.
[07:07.390 --> 07:21.070]  And when you're trying to raise funds constantly, as we are here at WBAI, because we don't have any commercials, well, yeah, you find yourself at a disadvantage.
[07:21.510 --> 07:26.470]  Now, we are not the highest fundraisers on the radio station, unfortunately.
[07:26.810 --> 07:28.670]  In the past, we have been.
[07:28.990 --> 07:32.450]  But, you know, things change, and I don't know.
[07:32.450 --> 07:38.610]  But for some reason, there are other programs that if you fill them in, they get more of a response.
[07:38.830 --> 07:40.810]  So, you know, we can understand.
[07:40.990 --> 07:45.210]  We can't understand why, you know, the last-minute notification, that was a little annoying.
[07:46.490 --> 07:50.290]  But I can certainly understand why the station needs to think of its future.
[07:50.290 --> 07:51.670]  That's the most important thing.
[07:51.770 --> 08:02.870]  And, of course, if you do support the station, I would hope that you would support the station by either calling 212-209-2950 or going to the website, give2wbai.org.
[08:02.870 --> 08:05.870]  That's give, the number 2, wbai.org.
[08:06.030 --> 08:09.210]  And showing your support and saying thanks for having this amazing place.
[08:09.390 --> 08:13.550]  So we had you guys scheduled last week.
[08:13.550 --> 08:15.290]  We wanted to have just the two of you on.
[08:15.670 --> 08:18.370]  And, of course, you made all these plans.
[08:18.370 --> 08:19.410]  You canceled a wedding.
[08:19.530 --> 08:22.870]  There's all sorts of things that, you know, you did just to join us.
[08:22.870 --> 08:23.970]  And we really appreciate that.
[08:23.990 --> 08:28.010]  And we had to tell you, they canceled the show at the last possible minute.
[08:28.010 --> 08:30.830]  So we said, okay, next week, meaning this week.
[08:30.910 --> 08:38.790]  And then we found out about a couple of hours earlier that they wanted to cancel us again this week to raise funds again.
[08:39.030 --> 08:42.070]  And we had a discussion about it.
[08:42.150 --> 08:43.390]  And it was rethought.
[08:43.630 --> 08:45.550]  And here you are now.
[08:45.670 --> 08:48.490]  I'm not sure if we're going to be on next week or the week after.
[08:48.910 --> 08:50.830]  You know, it's a week-to-week thing.
[08:50.910 --> 08:53.030]  But the important thing is that the stations stay on the air.
[08:53.030 --> 09:01.930]  So, you know, as inconvenient or annoying as it might be to us or our listeners, let's just not forget that is the main goal.
[09:01.930 --> 09:05.430]  And that is something that we have been successfully doing since 1960.
[09:05.430 --> 09:09.050]  So let's try and keep the station on at least until 2060.
[09:09.050 --> 09:22.690]  Yeah, the time is absolutely critical to contribute, wrangle as much support, spread the word, tell people about programs, and let's look at our accomplishments.
[09:22.690 --> 09:42.790]  Having weathered so much over the years, this is not insurmountable, but it really is about getting as many people to sign up, become recurring members, part of the WBA iBuddy program, or just a one-time gift, it's that end-of-year season.
[09:43.110 --> 09:58.270]  So think of giving a tax-deductible donation to this wonderful non-profit here in the city of New York and serving so many communities through our web presence.
[09:58.790 --> 10:07.570]  And we do as much as we can here, so please give back, think of us, and that amount, anything you can do.
[10:07.670 --> 10:12.950]  A small donation, incremental donations over the year, please do what you can.
[10:12.950 --> 10:22.450]  It makes so much of a difference, and we hope to continue capital improvements and getting programming and other exciting new things off the ground.
[10:22.570 --> 10:23.550]  But we need the support.
[10:23.790 --> 10:25.090]  I look forward to seeing the studio again.
[10:25.150 --> 10:27.590]  We haven't seen the studio in three years, you know, so...
[10:27.590 --> 10:31.530]  Or actually, two years, but still, two and a half years.
[10:31.810 --> 10:34.850]  It's been a while, and I'd like to actually see people again.
[10:34.950 --> 10:35.510]  That would be nice.
[10:35.670 --> 10:39.430]  But obviously, we're not quite there yet, but we've made a lot of progress.
[10:39.610 --> 10:42.750]  But I think this also points out the importance of radio.
[10:43.150 --> 10:45.150]  Like, people say, why don't you just do a podcast?
[10:45.230 --> 10:49.410]  And podcasts are all fun and glory and all that, but you don't get any...
[10:49.410 --> 10:53.330]  At least in our case, you don't get anywhere near the same audience as you do with radio.
[10:53.910 --> 10:55.190]  I know other podcasts do.
[10:55.350 --> 10:56.030]  Ours does not.
[10:56.670 --> 11:03.350]  And I think this also is proven by the fact that the station was off the air, but broadcasting on the internet.
[11:03.470 --> 11:10.410]  And we weren't able to reach our goals because online simply wasn't enough.
[11:10.570 --> 11:11.930]  On air is what matters.
[11:11.930 --> 11:21.890]  Well, and podcasting has become very popular, and it is a quite saturated and intense marketplace of ideas and time.
[11:22.110 --> 11:26.770]  There are very long... lots of audio and long-form productions.
[11:26.770 --> 11:28.830]  People are getting really into it.
[11:29.010 --> 11:31.730]  And commercial, non-commercial stuff.
[11:31.730 --> 11:36.130]  We like the path we've navigated so far.
[11:36.130 --> 11:44.470]  And a big part of that is radio being on formats that are not necessarily the same as the tech we talk about.
[11:44.490 --> 11:46.110]  But it's critical that we have a voice.
[11:46.270 --> 11:54.770]  There are so many different things going on with legislation, going on with the public airwaves, the society, the community in general.
[11:54.770 --> 12:02.430]  And when there's an emergency, a crisis, when you have to get the word out, whatever it may be, we want to be here.
[12:02.570 --> 12:06.750]  This station, this type of broadcasting, community radio in general.
[12:06.990 --> 12:16.450]  So that spirit is just as important to us as being able to share with you just our thoughts for an hour in the evening.
[12:16.450 --> 12:24.290]  Or on some other mode, you know, either way, it is important to us to be able to share.
[12:24.550 --> 12:29.590]  But this would be not the same if we abandon this format.
[12:29.790 --> 12:36.850]  No, I'm only comfortable if I know my voice is emanating through the atmosphere from a transmitter somewhere.
[12:37.170 --> 12:39.030]  You know, that's how I feel comfortable.
[12:39.230 --> 12:45.390]  It's not the same thing to have your voice going through a wire or, you know, on Wi-Fi or anything like that.
[12:45.390 --> 12:46.030]  It's just not the same.
[12:46.150 --> 12:46.810]  Not the same feeling.
[12:47.050 --> 12:49.690]  Plus, there's this other amazing part about radio.
[12:49.850 --> 12:51.130]  You never know who's listening.
[12:51.890 --> 12:53.250]  Online, you can look.
[12:53.290 --> 12:54.110]  You can see.
[12:54.230 --> 12:56.850]  You can actually see the IPs of people who are connecting.
[12:56.850 --> 12:59.390]  It's a lot more intrusive, a lot less privacy.
[12:59.690 --> 13:00.890]  Radio is anonymous.
[13:01.250 --> 13:04.290]  Radio, you can just be listening under your covers.
[13:04.290 --> 13:05.810]  You can be listening in your car.
[13:06.370 --> 13:08.910]  There's all sorts of magic involved in that unknown.
[13:09.170 --> 13:13.430]  And you find out later how many people actually were listening because they remember.
[13:13.430 --> 13:14.290]  They talk to you.
[13:14.290 --> 13:18.290]  They say, I heard you on the radio as I was driving across a bridge.
[13:18.430 --> 13:21.430]  And, you know, these moments matter.
[13:21.690 --> 13:26.670]  So, to all the people listening to us now on 99.5, it's good to have you back.
[13:27.090 --> 13:28.130]  It's good to be back.
[13:28.790 --> 13:29.530]  All right, folks.
[13:29.650 --> 13:32.570]  Sorry, we've talked enough, Mitch and Greg.
[13:32.710 --> 13:38.030]  Anything you want to share about radio or perhaps things that you're up to right now?
[13:40.900 --> 13:46.020]  Well, I definitely support the WBAI mission and encourage everything you just said.
[13:46.580 --> 13:50.300]  It seems like there's a lot going on in the tech world.
[13:50.580 --> 13:53.740]  I have a lot going on with my own personal telecommunication.
[13:53.880 --> 13:55.620]  Wouldn't mind telling you about some of that journey.
[13:57.060 --> 14:00.860]  And I'm also interested, though, to hear a little bit about Mitch's travels.
[14:01.080 --> 14:02.200]  You know, Mitch is kind of the...
[14:02.780 --> 14:10.980]  I think of you, Mitch, as kind of the Johnny Appleseed of making and soldering and building and arduinos and stuff like that.
[14:11.060 --> 14:12.480]  And I know you've been out and about.
[14:12.600 --> 14:14.240]  And I'd love to catch up on that as well.
[14:14.520 --> 14:14.980]  All right.
[14:15.060 --> 14:16.460]  Let's talk about those things.
[14:16.460 --> 14:22.880]  And at some point during the hour, we will tell you how we managed to get kicked off of YouTube.
[14:23.520 --> 14:23.920]  Yeah.
[14:25.180 --> 14:26.040]  Again, actually.
[14:26.200 --> 14:32.920]  We had an incident during Hope, but this was a bigger incident that happened since the last time we were on the air.
[14:33.020 --> 14:34.180]  So we'll talk about that as well.
[14:34.420 --> 14:36.560]  But first, I want to hear what you guys have been up to.
[14:37.420 --> 14:38.520]  Mitch, why don't we start with you?
[14:38.780 --> 14:40.980]  If that cat doesn't hit you in the head.
[14:42.080 --> 14:42.640]  No, no.
[14:42.780 --> 14:43.780]  Jumping all over the place.
[14:43.780 --> 14:45.820]  He knows...
[14:45.820 --> 14:49.760]  He's very energetic and he's like two and a half years old.
[14:50.000 --> 14:51.540]  And you should have seen him when he was a kitten.
[14:52.260 --> 14:54.480]  But he doesn't go on my keyboard.
[14:54.660 --> 14:56.940]  He's the only cat I've ever had who doesn't go on my keyboard.
[14:57.220 --> 15:03.080]  And he knows when his claws are out not to break human skin.
[15:03.340 --> 15:05.100]  So he's a good kitty cat.
[15:05.780 --> 15:06.540]  For now.
[15:06.640 --> 15:07.600]  For now he is.
[15:08.040 --> 15:08.260]  Yeah.
[15:08.480 --> 15:09.380]  But he's also...
[15:09.380 --> 15:12.280]  I've been traveling a lot since March.
[15:12.740 --> 15:17.600]  And I just got back from a maker fair in a town.
[15:17.600 --> 15:18.600]  The biggest...
[15:18.600 --> 15:20.800]  The second biggest town in Czech Republic.
[15:21.640 --> 15:23.480]  Which is very difficult to pronounce.
[15:23.680 --> 15:25.040]  Because it only has one vowel.
[15:25.260 --> 15:26.160]  And it's at the end.
[15:27.320 --> 15:29.080]  Well, you're going to have to try to pronounce it.
[15:29.160 --> 15:29.680]  I want to hear this.
[15:29.980 --> 15:30.660]  Yeah, I'll try to pronounce it.
[15:30.780 --> 15:31.020]  Bruno.
[15:32.100 --> 15:34.740]  The Germans, they just put a vowel in theirs.
[15:34.760 --> 15:36.060]  And they just call it Brun.
[15:36.260 --> 15:36.880]  Wait, wait, wait.
[15:36.960 --> 15:37.100]  Wait.
[15:37.260 --> 15:39.280]  How do you get the U sound without a vowel?
[15:40.120 --> 15:41.980]  Uh, you try it.
[15:42.220 --> 15:45.780]  Well, I'm assuming it's spelled B-R-U something, right?
[15:45.960 --> 15:47.560]  No, it's B-R-N-O.
[15:47.820 --> 15:48.140]  Really?
[15:48.240 --> 15:49.060]  There's no U there.
[15:49.240 --> 15:49.540]  Wow.
[15:49.600 --> 15:50.320]  Yeah, there's no U.
[15:50.440 --> 15:54.120]  I remember a long time ago, back when there used to be Yugoslavia.
[15:54.320 --> 15:54.780]  Remember that?
[15:54.920 --> 15:55.300]  Yeah, totally.
[15:55.940 --> 15:59.960]  And then our illustrious country decided to bomb the hell out of it.
[15:59.960 --> 16:07.960]  And, um, uh, but the Onion had an article that said there was a serious lack of vowels there and they were going to do a vowel drop.
[16:08.880 --> 16:09.320]  Wow.
[16:09.600 --> 16:09.920]  Okay.
[16:10.460 --> 16:18.260]  Um, yeah, that's, that's what I think of when I go to a, uh, a city with a name that has only one vowel at the end, but it's a really cool town.
[16:18.520 --> 16:21.960]  A lot of universities, they have a maker fair and it was mobbed.
[16:21.960 --> 16:29.980]  It had, uh, uh, a really beautiful early 20th century architecture building, uh, exhibition center.
[16:30.280 --> 16:40.700]  I did a bunch of workshops too, just for teachers to teach teachers how to teach, uh, this kind of tech and then two for general public people of all ages.
[16:40.800 --> 16:51.940]  Uh, of course people soldered and I can say solder now cause I'm talking to the United States of America and not Europe where I have to add the L sound cause there's an L.
[16:51.960 --> 16:52.800]  L in that word, remember?
[16:53.240 --> 16:54.760]  Yeah, but they, they make you do that?
[16:55.600 --> 17:02.640]  Well, people in Europe, if you don't pronounce the L, they look at you very oddly and same with in the UK.
[17:03.240 --> 17:07.960]  So I have to say solder and that always sounds weird to me, but it sounds normal to people here.
[17:08.140 --> 17:10.560]  Well, yeah, they do look at me very, very oddly.
[17:11.040 --> 17:12.440]  It's good to know why now.
[17:13.100 --> 17:14.740]  I didn't know that was the reason.
[17:14.920 --> 17:15.800]  There might be other reasons.
[17:16.340 --> 17:16.620]  I mean...
[17:16.620 --> 17:19.300]  I always suspected there were, but, uh, you make it sound so simple.
[17:19.300 --> 17:22.900]  So all I have to do is, is, is, is throw that L in there and they'll stop looking at me like that.
[17:23.180 --> 17:24.900]  Try it and see if it helps.
[17:25.140 --> 17:27.360]  Uh, it, it helps for me in certain occasions.
[17:27.700 --> 17:28.100]  Okay.
[17:28.120 --> 17:31.040]  I'll get off the play and start shouting solder and see what happens.
[17:31.580 --> 17:31.980]  Yeah.
[17:32.140 --> 17:37.120]  I think a lot of people will look at you strangely, but, uh, you know, your mileage may vary.
[17:37.120 --> 17:42.740]  Um, yeah, so I was there and, uh, and, and, and because of that, the cat has missed me.
[17:42.940 --> 18:01.760]  So, uh, he's now very excited that I'm home and, um, uh, yeah, uh, I'm also now, you know, so there's this annual Congress, uh, conference in Germany put on by the chaos computer club that, uh, you and Kyle are aware of and Greg as well.
[18:01.760 --> 18:17.320]  And many of the listeners, um, this would have been the 39th chaos communications Congress, but it was only going to be called the 37th because the last two, well, pandemic, you know, and, um, just can't get to that 40, can we?
[18:18.040 --> 18:20.820]  Well, time keeps happening regardless.
[18:20.900 --> 18:29.820]  And the black hole of a pandemic, uh, of black hole of time during a pandemic, but, uh, yeah, it was canceled.
[18:30.260 --> 18:51.160]  So there couldn't really decide what the best approach would be to have a huge Congress of many thousands of people, uh, getting together in a beautiful hall in Hamburg, couldn't figure out what the best approach might be while a pandemic is still happening with unknown rules and regulations about to hit.
[18:51.320 --> 18:52.820]  So they canceled it.
[18:52.940 --> 18:56.340]  And now they're pushing for a decentralized one.
[18:56.920 --> 19:01.620]  And a lot of people are stepping up to the plate, including us here in Berlin.
[19:02.100 --> 19:10.280]  We're going to try to rent the place that it used to be at when it was in Berlin, the Berliner Congress center.
[19:10.540 --> 19:12.280]  That is such a great idea.
[19:12.540 --> 19:18.720]  Uh, the BCC, the Berlin conference center, uh, was where the, uh, chaos communication Congress used to be held.
[19:18.900 --> 19:24.000]  It was the most fantastic setting, uh, but it can only hold about what, 2,500 people or so.
[19:24.240 --> 19:30.780]  So, uh, uh, uh, CCC grew really, really big and, and moved to a much larger place, but I think it, it lost some of the magic.
[19:30.940 --> 19:40.100]  I've always hoped that someday they would somehow have a conference there, maybe at the same time as, as the, uh, the Congress or something independent.
[19:40.240 --> 19:41.980]  It seems like this might actually happen though.
[19:42.720 --> 19:44.200]  Yeah, it's definitely happening.
[19:44.340 --> 20:01.540]  We may or may not be able to have it at BCC, uh, because we got a quote from them and it was rather expensive, but we negotiated with them and they dropped the price considerably because they really liked the idea of, uh, CCC people coming back to, uh,
[20:01.660 --> 20:02.140]  BCC.
[20:02.600 --> 20:07.580]  There's a lot of C's here and a B, but, um, uh, no vowels you'll notice.
[20:08.620 --> 20:11.780]  Uh, anyways, uh, but there are other options.
[20:12.080 --> 20:30.880]  There's another possibility that just came up today and that the city of Berlin, I believe it is, or maybe it's the federal government here, uh, offers a grant for putting on, uh, uh, conferences and they'll pay up to perhaps 60 euros per participant.
[20:31.400 --> 20:36.660]  And if that's the case, then maybe we can have even tickets for outrageously cheap.
[20:36.900 --> 20:47.120]  Uh, the biggest problem we would have if this is actually going to work for us is how do we, how do we have, uh, a conference of only 999 people?
[20:47.320 --> 20:47.920]  That's our limit.
[20:48.500 --> 20:53.260]  Um, uh, when there are way more people than that who want to take it.
[20:54.060 --> 20:54.460]  Yeah.
[20:54.540 --> 21:04.320]  Well, that's always been the problem, uh, you know, and, um, uh, you know, that, that could be a mitigate, I suppose, if, if there were lots of conferences going on in lots of cities throughout Germany.
[21:04.480 --> 21:07.420]  Um, but Berlin obviously is, is, is the big one.
[21:08.140 --> 21:08.640]  Yeah.
[21:08.760 --> 21:18.480]  And especially if it's at the BCC, cause a lot of, uh, older folks like us who've been to BCC when, when it was happening there, uh, really have fond memories of it.
[21:18.560 --> 21:24.700]  Um, cause it's a beautiful place and it's a perfect place to have a really cool conference in Berlin.
[21:25.480 --> 21:37.180]  So, um, yeah, well, we have the voucher system where we'll give vouchers to people and then they can give it to people and then it self replicates once someone gets a ticket and it's kind of complicated, but it works.
[21:37.620 --> 21:40.920]  New people will come because people are friends of friends of friends.
[21:41.220 --> 21:46.580]  And if you give vouchers to people within the community, then people within the community have a chance to go.
[21:46.880 --> 21:51.320]  So it's not ideal, but it's, uh, an okay enough compromise.
[21:51.540 --> 21:59.860]  Maybe, maybe we can limit the stay to like an hour, you know, people can go there, but they only stay an hour and then a whole new flock of people come in for the next hour.
[22:00.020 --> 22:01.040]  And that way we can fit everybody.
[22:02.460 --> 22:02.860]  Yeah.
[22:03.200 --> 22:03.940]  Time share it.
[22:04.120 --> 22:04.760]  Uh, probably not.
[22:04.920 --> 22:05.100]  No.
[22:05.500 --> 22:05.800]  All right.
[22:05.800 --> 22:06.480]  I'm trying to help you.
[22:06.640 --> 22:08.920]  I'm coming up with ideas, but, uh, appreciate it.
[22:08.960 --> 22:10.120]  There are no bad ideas.
[22:10.720 --> 22:12.360]  No, there's just stupid ones.
[22:13.020 --> 22:13.580]  Thank you.
[22:13.720 --> 22:14.420]  Thank you very much.
[22:14.900 --> 22:15.680]  So what else?
[22:15.760 --> 22:17.180]  Any, any, uh, maker fair?
[22:17.280 --> 22:17.980]  That sounds awesome.
[22:18.260 --> 22:20.120]  I'm glad there are still maker fairs around.
[22:20.120 --> 22:24.620]  I really miss the, the big maker fair that used to take place in, in, uh, in Queens.
[22:25.280 --> 22:35.280]  Um, and you know, as, as we, we found out, uh, or we already knew, but a lot of people found out this summer with the hope conference, Queens is an awesome borough and you can have a lot of fun in Queens.
[22:35.460 --> 22:40.660]  And we, we certainly hope to have tons more fun in, in future years with, uh, future hope conferences.
[22:40.660 --> 22:50.060]  But boy, I do miss the, the, um, the autumn maker fair that used to take place on, on the, uh, old world fair grounds, world fair grounds in Queens.
[22:50.780 --> 22:53.000]  Um, maybe it'll come back someday.
[22:53.840 --> 22:54.920]  I hope so.
[22:55.200 --> 23:03.580]  The organization that put on maker fair and make magazine went out of business, but then they reformed with a slightly different name.
[23:03.780 --> 23:07.760]  And I'm not sure what the status is of maker fairs at this point.
[23:08.220 --> 23:21.500]  Um, but in Europe and elsewhere in the world, people are still using the branding, even though it's, I guess, unofficial now, uh, as far as the original, uh, you know, company goes.
[23:21.500 --> 23:33.740]  So if somebody wanted to host a hundred thousand people in, in the middle of Queens and, and really make, uh, uh, you know, a lot of kids really, really happy and show technology and learn, uh, you know, teach soldering and all kinds of other things like that,
[23:33.740 --> 23:38.300]  uh, they might be able to license the name and, and, and do it that way.
[23:38.700 --> 23:39.420]  That's a possibility.
[23:39.880 --> 23:41.140]  Yeah, they definitely can do that.
[23:41.340 --> 23:46.540]  And, and I'm not even sure if there's an organization that licenses the name anymore, maybe.
[23:46.940 --> 23:52.240]  Uh, but maker, make community, I think is the name of the organization now.
[23:52.480 --> 23:55.920]  And with the original person that started at Dale Doherty.
[23:56.780 --> 23:58.340]  Um, yeah, they were fantastic.
[23:58.680 --> 24:09.060]  I was involved for five years at the beginning, five years from 2006 to 2011, pouring my heart and soul and volunteering into helping grow that community.
[24:09.440 --> 24:11.440]  And yeah, it was super, super fun.
[24:11.440 --> 24:14.560]  And I haven't been to a maker fear in so long.
[24:14.780 --> 24:17.260]  Uh, so it felt really, really good to be there.
[24:17.520 --> 24:22.440]  The there's maker fear, uh, and they pronounce it without vowels again.
[24:22.580 --> 24:23.920]  So I'm not going to attempt it.
[24:24.300 --> 24:35.700]  Um, but, uh, the, the Czech Republic, uh, has, uh, I think eight maker fares and Bruno, uh, is the, the most recent one.
[24:35.800 --> 24:36.780]  And they're going to do more.
[24:37.020 --> 24:40.920]  And people who I taught how to teach are going to give workshops at the next ones.
[24:41.740 --> 24:55.120]  And, um, yeah, I, I look forward to more of those, but there's a lot of conferences that have been happening this summer since they've been allowed as hope was allowed, which we've so grateful for.
[24:55.600 --> 24:57.980]  And, um, uh, yeah.
[24:58.040 --> 25:07.160]  And so I've been teaching soldering or soldering, depending on where you are in the world, uh, to, at all of them and also giving talks.
[25:07.860 --> 25:21.660]  And I was in the Czech Republic just three weeks ago for, um, and again, there's a lot of words without vowels, which I won't pronounce, but it was a really cool conference, which is thankfully shortened with an acronym HCPP.
[25:22.120 --> 25:32.160]  And, um, HCPP is in an organization that has a parallel society that only works with cryptocurrency payments.
[25:33.120 --> 25:42.800]  And these people are really going for, um, trying to make a new world separate from our capitalist society.
[25:43.000 --> 25:43.700]  It's kind of interesting.
[25:44.020 --> 25:51.240]  Anyways, I gave a talk where, uh, it has one of my favorite themes, which is getting people to quit jobs that they don't like.
[25:51.500 --> 25:56.340]  And after the talk, three people promised to quit their job and one person already did.
[25:56.880 --> 25:57.960]  So I think that was successful.
[25:58.860 --> 25:59.060]  Wow.
[25:59.660 --> 26:00.820]  Uh, Greg, we can't see you.
[26:00.920 --> 26:07.000]  So if you have any, uh, questions or, or things you want to say, uh, to Mitch or in response to what he's saying, please feel free.
[26:07.980 --> 26:10.280]  Well, congratulations to those people that quit their jobs.
[26:10.400 --> 26:22.760]  That's, uh, that's a great, courageous step forward to whatever's next and, uh, uh, resisting the fear of, uh, of what's next, I think is, is an important message.
[26:24.480 --> 26:24.920]  Absolutely.
[26:25.300 --> 26:25.440]  Definitely.
[26:26.160 --> 26:30.600]  Um, so any other adventures, Mitch, or is that pretty much, um, sum it up since hope?
[26:32.020 --> 26:40.580]  Oh, there's been so many places that I've been, but, um, yeah, that's, that's probably enough, uh, cause the other places were, were similar kinds of stories.
[26:40.980 --> 26:42.760]  And, um, you know, and I love doing this.
[26:42.880 --> 26:49.200]  I've been, I've been going around the world teaching people since 2007 and people often say, you know, doesn't traveling get you all exhausted?
[26:49.420 --> 26:52.560]  And like, I, it, yes, of course it does.
[26:53.000 --> 26:58.840]  Um, physically, but, um, psychically I get way more energized and I can always sleep.
[26:58.840 --> 26:59.520]  So I do.
[26:59.820 --> 27:02.300]  And, um, and then I wake up and do it again.
[27:02.500 --> 27:09.400]  And, you know, can you, can you outline the places that you have been since, uh, you were in Queens this, uh, this summer?
[27:10.720 --> 27:11.300]  Let's see.
[27:11.400 --> 27:12.640]  Where have I been since then?
[27:12.640 --> 27:14.880]  By the way, if you like a place with no vowels, go to Wales.
[27:16.320 --> 27:17.260]  I've been to Wales.
[27:17.440 --> 27:21.480]  Actually, that was one of the places I went to, um, North Wales.
[27:21.720 --> 27:37.280]  There's, uh, there's a friend who I met through going to, uh, chaos communications club events, um, who bought a small cathedral or a large chapel made out of stones.
[27:37.640 --> 27:41.860]  Um, very big stones with a rose window and everything.
[27:41.860 --> 27:49.620]  It's, uh, and he, he's got a, um, a hacker space there that some people live in and there's a really nice community there.
[27:49.860 --> 27:51.080]  He calls it astral ship.
[27:51.280 --> 27:59.800]  And, uh, when he has an event there, he calls it a voyage and, uh, you know, a bunch of hippies, you know, how, how, how, how, how we are.
[27:59.980 --> 28:03.540]  So, uh, it was super fun and we had a bunch of workshops.
[28:03.800 --> 28:14.380]  There's some small organic farms there and I showed them how to automate some of their processes that was very manual intensive for keeping small plants alive.
[28:14.780 --> 28:16.300]  And now a lot of that's automated.
[28:16.840 --> 28:24.540]  So, um, they can hopefully grow, uh, better quality food and more of it with less effort.
[28:25.560 --> 28:28.240]  So, you know, that was, that was a really cool thing.
[28:28.820 --> 28:29.320]  Uh, go ahead, Greg.
[28:29.740 --> 28:35.180]  Uh, yeah, I just want to plug your Instagram, Mitch, because, uh, I saw some of the pictures of this and they were fantastic.
[28:35.260 --> 28:37.800]  And I know your Instagram is, uh, is public.
[28:37.820 --> 28:54.260]  So people that are interested in this type of set up, it's sort of a, a whole, um, uh, environmentally focused or sort of a minimalist or, uh, I don't even know what to call it, sustainable, you know, uh, environment for, for growing stuff and, and, uh,
[28:54.500 --> 28:55.060]  making stuff.
[28:55.180 --> 29:01.280]  Did he, did he have a brewery of some sort also or something like there's some alcohol involved, but vegetables and all kinds of things.
[29:02.700 --> 29:08.120]  Yeah, there's, there's, uh, a group that makes their own beer, um, over there.
[29:08.340 --> 29:12.360]  And, uh, uh, I don't drink, so I couldn't taste it, but other people say it's really good.
[29:13.220 --> 29:15.020]  And, uh, what was that Instagram page again?
[29:16.100 --> 29:25.280]  Uh, what is my, I think I'm Mitch Altman 23 on Instagram and, uh, everywhere else I'm Maltman 23, but, uh, that was taken on Instagram.
[29:25.740 --> 29:26.480]  I got it, so.
[29:26.660 --> 29:28.960]  Now you were listing some other places you had, you had been?
[29:30.260 --> 29:32.480]  Uh, let's see if I can even remember.
[29:32.780 --> 29:34.900]  Uh, my brain is kind of tighter right now.
[29:35.140 --> 29:40.700]  Uh, I was in the last several hours before coming home to be on Skype.
[29:40.700 --> 29:43.120]  What a life you, you lead out there, Mitch.
[29:43.180 --> 29:44.680]  I gotta say, it's incredible.
[29:45.180 --> 29:50.040]  Yeah, you're talking to people by cathedrals and, uh, just wandering around Europe, teaching people how to solder.
[29:50.140 --> 29:55.000]  If you know how to solder, you likely know it because Mitch taught you at some point.
[29:55.500 --> 29:56.040]  Think about that.
[29:57.100 --> 30:00.880]  Yeah, I've only taught, uh, about 90,000 people how to solder.
[30:01.160 --> 30:04.260]  Uh, and I wrote a comic book for the people I haven't taught directly.
[30:04.980 --> 30:05.420]  Okay.
[30:05.860 --> 30:07.380]  Well, comic books are the best way of learning.
[30:07.620 --> 30:09.120]  Uh, I'm sorry, I keep interrupting you.
[30:09.200 --> 30:10.880]  Uh, so, any other places you remember?
[30:11.080 --> 30:11.920]  Any other countries?
[30:12.620 --> 30:19.960]  Um, yeah, so, after, uh, uh, yeah, so, I was, I was in, uh, oh, that was before Hope.
[30:20.160 --> 30:22.700]  I was at, um, EMF camp.
[30:23.380 --> 30:25.640]  And, um, that was, that's in the UK.
[30:25.980 --> 30:28.340]  It's, uh, there were 5,000 people there.
[30:28.880 --> 30:31.660]  And we set up a large hardware hacking area.
[30:31.800 --> 30:33.560]  I hang out with a lot of Belgians.
[30:33.560 --> 30:45.340]  And, um, there's this one Belgian who has a gigantic bus that has a gigantic tent that attaches to it where we can seat, um, over a hundred people underneath it.
[30:45.740 --> 30:49.040]  And, uh, we, we made lots and lots of food.
[30:49.140 --> 30:58.100]  Uh, the previous camp that we did the bus, we, we went through 120 kilograms of potatoes and made fries because, you know, Belgians need to make fries.
[30:58.100 --> 30:59.960]  And I'm an honorary Belgian.
[31:00.340 --> 31:08.100]  Um, I don't drink beer, which kind of gets in the way of the honorary Belgian thing, but they had plenty of that to give to other people who enjoy it.
[31:08.900 --> 31:11.060]  Um, yeah.
[31:11.060 --> 31:12.200]  Let's see, where else?
[31:12.480 --> 31:20.500]  Um, uh, MCH, I couldn't go to because we couldn't avoid having it on the same weekend as Hope.
[31:20.640 --> 31:29.860]  That was the, uh, the Dutch hacker camp that, uh, we were supposed to be simulcasting, but we never heard from them during Hope, but I, I heard it happened and, and, and people were happy with it.
[31:30.580 --> 31:31.580]  It did.
[31:31.920 --> 31:42.240]  Uh, and, um, they had a tent, uh, where they could talk to us in that one classroom, uh, upper floor in St. John's.
[31:42.820 --> 31:44.280]  Um, yeah.
[31:44.580 --> 31:48.440]  Anyways, there's, there's, there's, there's lots of travels in there.
[31:48.940 --> 31:57.900]  And, um, um, um, yeah, being in the old country was really good to visit friends.
[31:58.340 --> 32:03.280]  And, uh, of course there were 1200 of my closest friends at Hope.
[32:03.500 --> 32:18.800]  Uh, some of them new friends who I'm definitely keeping in touch with and who I'll see again, hopefully here in Berlin at the end of, uh, December, which is when our, I think we're calling it hacker hacking in parallel hip.
[32:19.880 --> 32:25.680]  So that would be the second hip because, uh, hacking in progress took place in 1997 in, in, uh, Netherlands.
[32:26.500 --> 32:26.840]  Yeah.
[32:27.000 --> 32:29.280]  And it's sort of a nod to them as well.
[32:29.560 --> 32:29.840]  All right.
[32:29.920 --> 32:35.420]  Well, hopefully they don't nod to you in the courtroom and take action against using the same, uh, acronym, but we'll see.
[32:36.080 --> 32:39.180]  Um, cause I'm friends with the person who named that one.
[32:39.320 --> 32:39.540]  Okay.
[32:39.760 --> 32:40.080]  All right.
[32:40.340 --> 32:40.920]  Hold on to that.
[32:41.500 --> 32:44.300]  Um, Greg, tell us what, what, uh, you've been up to.
[32:45.260 --> 32:48.760]  Well, nothing, uh, uh, nothing quite as, as illuminating.
[32:49.060 --> 33:00.380]  Um, so, uh, uh, after, after the hackers on planet earth conference in Queens, uh, it was, uh, mostly catch up and rest and, and carry on.
[33:00.560 --> 33:09.560]  I had a, uh, my, I think my only travel actually was I had a foot race in Alberta, sort of a couple hours out of Edmonton, uh, last month.
[33:09.700 --> 33:12.500]  So that was, that was nice, exhausting as they always are.
[33:13.080 --> 33:21.740]  And otherwise I've, uh, stayed at home, carried on with, uh, uh, workplace stuff, uh, getting ready for the winter, which, uh, has started here in Yukon.
[33:21.940 --> 33:25.640]  We got snow on the ground and we'll probably have snow on the ground for the next seven months.
[33:26.040 --> 33:26.440]  Wow.
[33:26.680 --> 33:45.800]  And, uh, and, uh, and also I'm very distracted with trying to figure out an internet solution, uh, post ExploreNet pre Starlink, which, uh, will be, that'll, that'll be my, uh, scenario in, uh, the new year on January 1st, having sort of a shortage of internet here in the home front.
[33:46.220 --> 33:50.420]  Well, yeah, it's a challenge where you are, uh, cause I, you're off the grid, right?
[33:51.400 --> 33:53.340]  Yeah, it's, it's kind of doubly challenging.
[33:53.620 --> 33:56.340]  So, so of course being off the grid always creates its own challenges.
[33:56.340 --> 34:10.920]  So I don't have an opportunity for, for DSL or, uh, you know, an actual, you know, fiber, copper line coming to my house cause I'm off the grid, but also I'm in, uh, uh, a northern community, a little bit north of Whitehorse in Canada.
[34:11.220 --> 34:17.100]  And Canada is about, about like the U S as far as rural internet, which is to say not good.
[34:17.160 --> 34:26.860]  Rural internet is, is not so good in the U S and it's not so good in Canada, despite having received incredible government subsidies over the years to the, to the telecoms.
[34:27.080 --> 34:29.800]  So it's not good in the first place, but also I'm off grid.
[34:29.960 --> 34:36.420]  So I can't even get the stuff that's not so good that my, you know, that my neighbors have, they have the DSL and complain about it.
[34:36.600 --> 34:47.500]  So my, um, my situation as, uh, two components, uh, not counting the radio telephone that I'm talking to you on now, but the, uh, for internet, we have, uh, the mobile cellular data.
[34:47.660 --> 34:58.800]  So your regular, uh, you know, LTE for, uh, mobile cellular network, which is, um, not always terrible, but sometimes it's terrible due to capacity limits.
[34:58.960 --> 35:05.000]  And then also we've had, uh, something called explore net, which is just like Q's net is in the U S.
[35:05.100 --> 35:07.000]  So this is, uh, geosynchronous satellite.
[35:07.380 --> 35:11.560]  So you have a dish, a KU band, a dish that points towards the Southern sky.
[35:11.760 --> 35:15.300]  And this is actually remarkably reliable, but it's kind of laggy.
[35:15.480 --> 35:19.960]  And also, uh, not, in other words, the latency is not so good.
[35:20.080 --> 35:23.740]  And also the, uh, uh, congestion is an issue.
[35:23.860 --> 35:28.300]  So we do end up particularly in the evenings with a very, very slow internet service.
[35:28.540 --> 35:37.440]  And just to give you an idea, like a typical sort of low end DSL might be 150 megabits, uh, I'm sorry, 150 kilobits, 150 megabits would be good.
[35:37.580 --> 35:39.940]  No, 150 kilobits, uh, downlink speed.
[35:40.140 --> 35:48.300]  And we're kind of lucky if we ever, if we ever see that, like every once in a while, we'll get a megabit, but, uh, but we don't reliably get DSL speed with explore net.
[35:48.540 --> 35:50.820]  But, uh, and that's a fascinating technology.
[35:50.960 --> 35:55.440]  The geosynchronous satellite technology is, is, uh, great stuff, uh, very important.
[35:55.700 --> 36:04.560]  These are in the same, um, realm as our TV satellites and a lot of other important telecommunications satellites, uh, 22,600 miles in the sky.
[36:04.820 --> 36:17.780]  The particular satellite that we use for this company, uh, explore net is, uh, however, deorbiting it's, uh, it's run out of propellant and it reached its end of life a couple of years earlier than expected.
[36:18.000 --> 36:22.640]  So suddenly we, um, got a note earlier in the year, it actually came up two years ago and then they extended.
[36:22.880 --> 36:27.720]  So we got a note earlier in the year that they were decommissioning the satellite at the end of this calendar year.
[36:28.040 --> 36:34.160]  So we're going to be, uh, down to, uh, mobile data only, which as I mentioned, they didn't have a plan for that.
[36:34.440 --> 36:37.460]  They didn't have a plan for decommissioning their satellite.
[36:38.380 --> 36:44.260]  I think they have a plan that involves, uh, people elsewhere that are going to pay more money for their services.
[36:44.700 --> 36:50.600]  So, uh, rural, uh, that this is why telecom and rural areas are so bad in the U S as well.
[36:51.120 --> 36:56.140]  Rural areas just don't have the density of people to make the dollars that these companies want to make.
[36:56.260 --> 37:03.660]  So, so I, I think they may be eventually have another satellite going up, but at the same time, they know that low earth orbit solutions are what's coming in.
[37:03.820 --> 37:19.400]  And so Starlink of course is, you know, the Elon Musk, uh, company, uh, where the satellites are, you know, on the order of a few hundred miles high instead of 26, 22,000 miles high, which is, uh, interesting for a variety of standpoints, technical standpoints,
[37:19.460 --> 37:26.260]  but the same companies that have the geosynchronous satellites, their next step is to do the low earth orbit satellites rather than more geosynchronous satellites.
[37:26.640 --> 37:31.600]  So now when Starlink, um, uh, starts operating, uh, do you know when that will be?
[37:31.720 --> 37:32.480]  How will that affect you?
[37:33.740 --> 37:35.640]  It's a, it's an unknown.
[37:35.900 --> 37:48.600]  So Starlink is available and they have a coverage map and they've been in the news for, uh, providing coverage to Ukraine, uh, which is, it turns out to be pretty important for their purposes and, uh, you know, fighting off the Russians there.
[37:49.460 --> 38:03.200]  Um, but in order to serve the Northern communities above about 54 degrees, and I'm just a little bit above that, a little further north than that, they have to have polar orbiting satellites as opposed to satellites that are more, uh, more close to the equator.
[38:03.440 --> 38:11.400]  So if you look at a given satellite, it's sort of looping around the earth and processing, but it doesn't go too far out of its, um, zone where it launches.
[38:11.640 --> 38:13.420]  So they haven't launched the polar satellites yet.
[38:13.560 --> 38:16.180]  They've only done, I think, three launches and they need eight launches.
[38:16.420 --> 38:21.200]  So we're waiting patiently for Starlink to decide that, uh, that's enough.
[38:21.760 --> 38:36.060]  One thing that's, uh, cool recent news is that, uh, Starlink is now selling service to airplanes that go across the poles and, uh, as opposed to ones that are just sort of in the mid latitudes.
[38:36.420 --> 38:38.600]  And in order to do that, they have to launch these other satellites.
[38:38.780 --> 38:45.320]  So I'm sort of hopeful that they'll be doing it, uh, by the first quarter of 2023, which is, which is kind of what they're, what they're talking about.
[38:47.360 --> 38:48.260]  Quite a challenge.
[38:48.640 --> 38:58.500]  I mean, you know, next time we complain about our bandwidth, I guess we should think about, you know, you up there in the wilds of the Yukon, um, and, and, uh, you're getting by with a couple hundred, uh, kilobits.
[38:58.880 --> 39:09.640]  Um, yeah, that's like, uh, it's, it's like, uh, the thrill of a high-speed modem almost, uh, you know, it's not, not a whole lot faster than that compared to, uh, you know, fiber to the home type of situation.
[39:10.400 --> 39:11.160]  Um, yeah.
[39:11.220 --> 39:12.500]  And of course, we do have iridium.
[39:12.740 --> 39:15.700]  Like there's, uh, you know, there's, there's a couple of other services.
[39:15.740 --> 39:22.940]  So, you know, we can use a, uh, uh, in-reach type of phone or like a Garmin, you know, tracker, spot tracker, these types of things.
[39:23.220 --> 39:26.340]  So it's not that we don't have coverage, And we can watch TV.
[39:27.940 --> 39:29.920]  Those satellites are still there.
[39:30.020 --> 39:34.540]  But in terms of the bi-directional internet, there's very few choices that are available up here.
[39:35.900 --> 39:37.960]  Well, in a way, it's kind of refreshing.
[39:38.340 --> 39:41.140]  I know that's not much comfort if you really want to do something online.
[39:41.320 --> 39:53.320]  But still, the way people are attached to being connected constantly all the time, they forget the magic of just being in a forest or in a field or something like that.
[39:53.320 --> 39:57.060]  So hopefully you get some comfort from those moments.
[39:57.160 --> 39:57.780]  Well, we get both.
[39:58.080 --> 39:58.960]  Yeah, we get both.
[39:59.120 --> 40:08.000]  We do get the magic of being in the field and looking out over Lake LaBerge, which is the lake that's in the cremation of Sam McGee.
[40:08.200 --> 40:09.880]  Oh, great poem.
[40:10.220 --> 40:10.880]  Literally out my window.
[40:11.200 --> 40:12.900]  Yeah, so I'm in an amazing location.
[40:13.440 --> 40:22.740]  And as soon as I leave the small coverage area of my mobile booster device, I have no mobile phone service.
[40:23.820 --> 40:32.100]  But at the same time, I do appreciate the value of having somewhat better internet because often it's just unusable.
[40:32.340 --> 40:43.780]  Like, we literally can't watch a video, load an email, whatever, because all the kids are home from school watching YouTube and playing games and stuff like that and sucking up all of our precious internet.
[40:44.260 --> 40:44.740]  Yeah.
[40:44.920 --> 40:47.700]  So we do appreciate it when there's a shortage, that's for sure.
[40:47.700 --> 41:12.980]  That demand is immediate, yet these projects have taken so much time and dollars to be projected and people making these sort of sales or business decisions around it, not really acknowledging in the process just how many lives are really out in the wind without it.
[41:12.980 --> 41:25.580]  And even in suburban areas, you get incredibly slow speeds like you referenced over DSL, and not to mention rural areas like where you are and, of course, off the grid.
[41:25.580 --> 41:34.940]  I just am really encouraged by some of those connectivity projects in far-flung places, just hearing more about them.
[41:34.940 --> 41:45.880]  Those can then become hubs for other modes of connectivity like wireless, so fingers crossed, but I can see you're sort of straddling it there.
[41:46.080 --> 41:52.200]  And like you're saying, it's like unusable, and you're really just paying for the ability to pay a bill.
[41:52.420 --> 41:56.980]  Like, you can't even go online and pay your bill with the service that you're paying for, and that is it.
[41:56.980 --> 42:05.260]  You know, if it's unusable for the demand you have now, it feels just really pointless, so...
[42:05.260 --> 42:07.000]  But it sounds like you're getting creative.
[42:08.040 --> 42:26.260]  It truly is disenfranchising, you know, and this has always been the argument for rural telecom, you know, all the way back to when we were just talking about basic phone connectivity and then modem connectivity and things like long-distance charges was it's disenfranchising to not have access to this or to just pay,
[42:26.420 --> 42:37.740]  you know, really a high multiple of what everyone else is paying to have basic ability to, you know, order from the Sears catalog on the phone or have 911 service or things like that.
[42:37.880 --> 42:52.840]  And, yeah, it's a brutal story of how the telecom industry has taken and taken government subsidies and charged really high prices and just failed to deliver at the rural level.
[42:53.020 --> 43:06.240]  And these are problems that a lot of First Nations communities are facing constantly because they're in remote areas, many of them, and they simply don't get the same level of service and are forever at a disadvantage.
[43:06.520 --> 43:09.180]  It really... it can be extremely frustrating.
[43:09.240 --> 43:23.440]  And you see the same dichotomies in cities where, like, oh, all the condos, they have great internet there, but these other places in industrial and in other parts of town, they don't get anything or they get a subpar service.
[43:23.560 --> 43:25.440]  The investment doesn't ever get there.
[43:25.620 --> 43:32.100]  It can be just as distinct in a densely populated area or, like, suburban area.
[43:32.400 --> 43:36.140]  You know, Greg, you were mentioning how it's impossible to stream a movie online.
[43:37.160 --> 43:42.580]  It seems to me that if there is ever a place where a video store could still survive, it's where you are.
[43:43.420 --> 43:44.160]  Well, there are.
[43:44.440 --> 43:49.300]  Yeah, there's one in the little mini mall, not too far from where we drive into town.
[43:49.500 --> 43:50.900]  So, yeah, there are still video stores here.
[43:50.920 --> 43:56.360]  I don't think there's actually a blockbuster, but there's, you know, a homegrown one, which is even more surprising.
[43:57.040 --> 44:01.700]  Yeah, we do... you know, we are able to get videos and people watch, you know, Netflix and all that sort of thing.
[44:02.820 --> 44:06.080]  But it's not always available because of congestion.
[44:06.380 --> 44:13.280]  You know, it's just sometimes unusably slow because there are too many people trying to use the network at the same time.
[44:13.900 --> 44:16.880]  So, yeah, so we're looking for...
[44:17.840 --> 44:38.580]  One thing that's done for us is we're looking more carefully at outer space because of the, you know, the potential of these low-Earth orbit satellites being a real solution and an equalizer for rural internet because not only is it, you know, good for people that are just off the beaten path a little bit,
[44:38.580 --> 44:47.780]  a little bit further north, but it also is a solution for people that are in a truly disconnected area, so people that are, you know, on a highway or in a park or something in the middle of nowhere.
[44:47.780 --> 44:53.920]  And so I find myself paying attention to Starlink and their various competitors.
[44:54.260 --> 44:56.780]  You know, SpaceX, of course, is the one that puts out the Starlink satellites.
[44:57.960 --> 45:01.840]  And, you know, looking at the couple of other competitors to them, like One Earth...
[45:02.960 --> 45:04.440]  Yeah, One... was it One Earth?
[45:04.600 --> 45:05.240]  I can't remember.
[45:05.420 --> 45:06.360]  One Earth, One Web.
[45:06.660 --> 45:09.980]  But a couple other companies that are promising to do the same thing.
[45:10.080 --> 45:15.760]  But so far only one company is actually doing it at scale, which is a Starlink company.
[45:15.760 --> 45:17.520]  So that's fascinating, too.
[45:17.640 --> 45:22.080]  I mean, what does it mean, I think, is what I'm hearing in your comments.
[45:22.220 --> 45:27.360]  What does it mean to have a competition for this at that altitude?
[45:28.900 --> 45:42.600]  And, you know, when it gets competitive for certain coverage areas, or would people in a certain area that maybe have an interest in owning the infrastructure, are they even able to access and compete?
[45:43.160 --> 45:46.000]  I mean, can you launch satellites like that?
[45:46.100 --> 46:03.160]  I mean, it's really kind of turned that into a marketplace that, I don't know, it has its own limitations and barriers, much in the same way broadband rollouts are the same, like relying on big investments.
[46:04.620 --> 46:05.620]  This is Off the Hook.
[46:05.880 --> 46:10.300]  We're broadcasting for another just under 10 minutes, I think.
[46:10.720 --> 46:13.400]  You can write to us, OTH at 2600.com.
[46:13.520 --> 46:17.520]  We're talking to Greg Newby up there in the Yukon and Mitch Altman in Berlin.
[46:18.540 --> 46:26.580]  I wanted to tell the story about YouTube, because it's kind of momentous and kind of crazy what happened to us.
[46:26.580 --> 46:31.480]  As you know, we have a program that follows this program called Off the Hook Overtime.
[46:32.160 --> 46:33.540]  It starts at 8 o'clock.
[46:33.660 --> 46:35.780]  It's on our YouTube channel, Channel 2600.
[46:35.780 --> 46:39.480]  You can catch the link on the top of the 2600.com page.
[46:40.720 --> 46:44.900]  We got a notice a few weeks ago.
[46:45.980 --> 46:50.380]  It was addressed to Channel 2600 from YouTube, owned by Google.
[46:50.960 --> 46:53.080]  And it said, Hi, Channel 2600.
[46:53.440 --> 46:58.620]  Our team has reviewed your content, and unfortunately, we think it violates our misinformation policy.
[46:58.980 --> 47:05.740]  We've removed the following content from YouTube, and it was our entire overtime show for September 28th.
[47:06.240 --> 47:12.800]  They continue, We know that this might be disappointing, but it's important to us that YouTube is a safe place for all.
[47:13.020 --> 47:15.340]  If content breaks our rules, we remove it.
[47:15.440 --> 47:19.100]  If you think we've made a mistake, you can appeal and we'll take another look.
[47:19.100 --> 47:20.860]  Keep reading for more details.
[47:21.760 --> 47:34.040]  Now, under How Your Content Violated the Policy, this is what they say, Content that advances false claims that widespread fraud, errors, or glitches change the outcome of the U.S.
[47:34.160 --> 47:38.380]  2020 presidential election is not allowed on YouTube.
[47:39.100 --> 47:40.260]  In addition to...
[47:40.260 --> 47:43.500]  Yeah, how much surprise is anybody to hear us accused of that?
[47:44.500 --> 47:55.100]  In addition, we basically were told that there was a strike against our account and that further such behavior would result in our channel being permanently shut down.
[47:55.340 --> 48:06.220]  Yes, the channel that hosts all the content for every Hope conference would be shut down because Google, for some reason, thinks that we were spreading election lies.
[48:06.220 --> 48:11.300]  Now, Google would not elaborate on what precisely they were accusing us of.
[48:11.720 --> 48:19.540]  As you may know, we've been outspoken defenders of the 2020 presidential election, so to be accused of the exact opposite was a bit of a shock.
[48:19.860 --> 48:25.460]  We were given the opportunity to review the content, but they didn't tell us what the actual problem was.
[48:25.460 --> 48:28.320]  They just pointed to the entire 60-minute episode.
[48:28.320 --> 48:32.940]  Well, we did a bit of listening, and we figured it out.
[48:33.300 --> 48:39.020]  I'm going to play you a minute excerpt here and see just what it was that triggered Google.
[48:39.260 --> 48:39.460]  Listen.
[48:39.820 --> 48:44.020]  Whatever we have at the time and our takes on it, we're certainly not experts.
[48:44.220 --> 48:55.980]  We're relying on one another's perspectives to inform overall consensus or maybe what priorities are in light of whatever the stories are.
[48:55.980 --> 48:57.160]  So, I don't know.
[48:57.260 --> 49:00.980]  We do as much as we can, and we want to give people an opportunity to talk, too.
[49:01.240 --> 49:03.360]  And, you know, sometimes our minds change.
[49:03.580 --> 49:04.460]  Sometimes we're convinced.
[49:04.600 --> 49:07.200]  Sometimes we find out that, hey, I'm wrong.
[49:07.200 --> 49:09.200]  I wasn't informed completely.
[49:09.200 --> 49:12.140]  Now I am, and I've changed my perspective.
[49:12.680 --> 49:16.600]  Yeah, and you get more information over time, too.
[49:16.880 --> 49:20.780]  Things have a different appearance over time.
[49:20.920 --> 49:22.120]  That election was stolen.
[49:22.280 --> 49:22.960]  It was.
[49:23.080 --> 49:24.000]  And let me tell you why.
[49:24.100 --> 49:25.660]  I'll tell you that as soon as I tell you why.
[49:26.220 --> 49:27.500]  All vaccinations are bad.
[49:27.720 --> 49:28.220]  No, I'm kidding.
[49:28.580 --> 49:29.180]  I'm kidding.
[49:29.360 --> 49:30.500]  You know, we can joke, right?
[49:30.920 --> 49:31.780]  We can, right?
[49:32.520 --> 49:32.920]  Yes.
[49:33.140 --> 49:33.640]  Okay, thank you.
[49:33.760 --> 49:35.420]  Yeah, from time to time, it's allowed.
[49:36.260 --> 49:37.420]  No, no, no, no.
[49:37.500 --> 49:38.400]  It's not allowed.
[49:38.580 --> 49:41.560]  It's no longer allowed in the world of YouTube.
[49:42.440 --> 49:44.540]  Yeah, so I made a little joke.
[49:44.540 --> 49:46.880]  I made a little joke saying, hey, guess what?
[49:46.980 --> 49:49.700]  The election was stolen, pretending to be an election denier.
[49:49.700 --> 49:53.540]  And that got Google to ban our channel, to shut us down.
[49:53.940 --> 49:57.940]  That's just, it's unbelievable that that actually happened.
[49:58.580 --> 50:01.060]  So we filed an immediate appeal.
[50:01.520 --> 50:03.960]  All kinds of listeners were weighing in on this one.
[50:04.480 --> 50:13.080]  And within an hour, we got a message back saying, after taking another look, we can confirm that your content does not violate our community guidelines.
[50:13.360 --> 50:14.120]  You think?
[50:15.740 --> 50:16.260]  Wow.
[50:16.480 --> 50:18.540]  But they didn't answer any of our questions.
[50:18.700 --> 50:20.260]  How did this happen in the first place?
[50:20.480 --> 50:25.080]  Was this an automated process or somebody who had no sense of humor whatsoever?
[50:25.080 --> 50:28.060]  What guidelines are they utilizing?
[50:28.380 --> 50:37.660]  You know, we support restrictions on hate speech and all kinds of blatantly false information that's designed to mislead the public.
[50:39.080 --> 50:43.100]  But we've mentioned that we stood up for our democratic elections.
[50:43.100 --> 50:45.100]  We've sided with science over superstition.
[50:46.020 --> 50:55.880]  And we also believe a company can make whatever decisions they want as far as their own systems go, provided they're not discriminating against people based on race, religion, sexual identity.
[50:56.740 --> 51:00.440]  But what Google did here was well over the line.
[51:00.560 --> 51:07.360]  Even if they do legally have the right to shut out people, they consider to be spreading lies because this time they went after sarcasm.
[51:07.820 --> 51:17.080]  Whether through artificial intelligence or humorless human, such behavior is certain to have a chilling effect on free speech of all sorts.
[51:17.080 --> 51:27.260]  Now, people have been sending us all kinds of hints as to phrases we should avoid, methods of expressing opinions that won't cross the line and get us kicked off of YouTube again.
[51:28.140 --> 51:29.380]  And we're grateful.
[51:29.380 --> 51:30.820]  We thank them for this.
[51:30.820 --> 51:35.380]  But we're going to continue to use sarcasm whenever we deem it damn necessary.
[51:35.940 --> 51:37.340]  And we do it quite a lot.
[51:37.500 --> 51:38.220]  A lot.
[51:38.320 --> 51:38.620]  A lot.
[51:38.780 --> 51:41.600]  And we're going to continue to talk to people with differing opinions.
[51:41.600 --> 51:54.240]  If someone were to call into our podcast later on and express alternate thinking on anything from elections to vaccines, we would engage them in some form of conversation, attempt to get them to reconsider.
[51:54.620 --> 51:56.060]  That's our call.
[51:56.200 --> 51:58.180]  Not Google's, not Facebook's, not Twitter's.
[51:59.140 --> 52:05.740]  We're not going to be intimidated into avoiding the conversation altogether, lest Google somehow takes offense.
[52:05.740 --> 52:11.640]  And you can count on us doing this a whole lot more in the future, because that's how it works.
[52:11.640 --> 52:16.900]  When you tell hackers they can't do something, they do it 10 more times.
[52:18.120 --> 52:19.480]  Boy, that annoyed me.
[52:20.000 --> 52:25.840]  That really says to wake up at 3 o'clock and see that your channel has been shut down.
[52:25.840 --> 52:27.740]  It's just, it's so wrong.
[52:28.760 --> 52:29.100]  Guys...
[52:29.100 --> 52:30.200]  We're testing the limits here.
[52:30.580 --> 52:41.440]  And there's probably phase one of testing the limits, which is to play back what got you booted in the first place and see what happens when the WBAI episode goes up live on YouTube.
[52:41.620 --> 52:47.640]  Let me tell you right now, well, this doesn't go on YouTube, but over time, which follows immediately, goes on YouTube.
[52:47.920 --> 52:50.180]  And that is why we're going to start the show.
[52:50.320 --> 52:58.160]  So if you want to see a kerfuffle, folks, join us over on YouTube in a few minutes, 8 o'clock, channel 2600.
[52:58.440 --> 53:00.380]  Follow the link on 2600.com.
[53:01.080 --> 53:05.680]  We will continue this conversation over there in just a few minutes.
[53:05.860 --> 53:08.430]  Please write to us, O-T-H at 2600.com.
[53:09.680 --> 53:12.180]  And we will see you again soon.
[53:12.420 --> 53:15.820]  We hopefully will be here next week, maybe in two weeks, maybe in three weeks.
[53:16.000 --> 53:16.980]  Watch what you say.
[53:17.180 --> 53:17.980]  Alphabet's listening.
[53:18.580 --> 53:18.760]  Cut.
[53:19.440 --> 53:20.360]  How great was that?
[53:20.740 --> 53:21.420]  Is he worth the money?
[53:32.510 --> 53:33.570]  I need a Pepsi.
[53:35.090 --> 53:36.170]  I need a Pepsi.
[53:37.550 --> 53:38.610]  I need a Pepsi.
[53:39.090 --> 53:39.410]  Cut.
[53:39.630 --> 53:40.110]  That's great.
[53:40.170 --> 53:40.610]  Let's look at these.
[53:41.530 --> 53:42.670]  Why is this commercial?
[53:44.090 --> 53:45.210]  Why is this commercial?
[53:46.650 --> 53:47.790]  Why is this commercial?
[53:48.910 --> 53:50.370]  Why, why is this commercial?
[53:50.650 --> 53:51.430]  Go to sell Pepsi.
[53:52.050 --> 53:54.710]  I, I'm me, and I'm using this to sell you this.
[53:55.090 --> 53:55.570]  Pepsi.
[53:56.330 --> 53:56.810]  Pepsi.
[53:57.110 --> 53:59.830]  I, I'm me, and I'm using this to sell you this.
[54:00.130 --> 54:00.610]  Pepsi.
[54:12.290 --> 54:22.430]  it's that last one-foot I call it in the supermarket were that one foot between your hand reaching this direction or that direction is an emotional one.
[54:23.210 --> 54:25.350]  And that's the bonding you want to get.
[54:26.430 --> 54:27.870]  One foot, I call it.
[54:29.010 --> 54:29.870]  One foot.
[54:30.170 --> 54:30.830]  One foot.
[54:31.390 --> 54:31.850]  One foot.
[54:32.410 --> 54:32.630]  Cut.
[54:33.110 --> 54:39.710]  You're picking people who represent traditionally perceived roles for black people.
[54:40.230 --> 54:50.290]  Aunt Jermaine, my Uncle Ben, the servants of the traditional role here of the black athletes, use the role that people are comfortable with seeing blacks in to help sell a product.
[54:50.290 --> 54:54.670]  But don't use blacks in roles that are expanding the parameters.
[54:54.970 --> 54:57.750]  They're putting blacks in new and in different settings.
[54:58.470 --> 55:00.010]  Hi, I'm Marshall Walker.
[55:00.250 --> 55:02.650]  I'm not just running through a line when I say hi.
[55:02.890 --> 55:03.770]  I'm Marshall Walker.
[55:03.890 --> 55:04.470]  I need a Pepsi.
[55:04.770 --> 55:05.190]  Pepsi.
[55:05.910 --> 55:06.430]  Pepsi.
[55:08.570 --> 55:08.970]  Pepsi.
[55:09.270 --> 55:09.530]  Pepsi.
[55:09.950 --> 55:10.090]  Pepsi.
[55:10.090 --> 55:11.070]  I feel good about Pepsi.
[55:11.370 --> 55:11.570]  Pepsi.
[55:12.030 --> 55:12.190]  Pepsi.
[55:12.530 --> 55:13.510]  I feel good about Pepsi.
[55:13.750 --> 55:15.030]  Testimonial advice on everything.
[55:15.270 --> 55:20.930]  And that's why, Michael, whose face you like, where we know that a large number of people are crazy about him.
[55:20.930 --> 55:22.910]  As soon as you see him, you say, Oh, I wonder what this is going to be about.
[55:26.870 --> 55:28.430]  You're a whole new generation.
[55:29.110 --> 55:32.930]  Five million dollars to star in two 90-second adverts.
[55:33.370 --> 55:33.610]  Pepsi.
[55:33.610 --> 55:33.730]  ox 순f?
[55:33.830 --> 55:36.610]  Are you sure you want to use a celebrity?ously?
[00:00.520 --> 00:06.340]  And welcome, everybody, to YouTube, where we are joining you now for overtime.
[00:08.480 --> 00:09.480]  Emmanuel over here.
[00:09.640 --> 00:10.640]  Kyle, did you make it okay?
[00:11.220 --> 00:11.960]  Oh, indeed.
[00:11.960 --> 00:12.500]  I'm here.
[00:12.680 --> 00:13.080]  I'm ready.
[00:13.480 --> 00:13.860]  All right.
[00:14.000 --> 00:17.460]  And let's see if Skypeland has worked.
[00:17.820 --> 00:19.340]  Mitch, I see you.
[00:19.420 --> 00:20.120]  I see the cat.
[00:20.400 --> 00:21.500]  Are you both there?
[00:22.340 --> 00:23.300]  We're both here.
[00:23.480 --> 00:24.000]  It's funny.
[00:24.060 --> 00:26.920]  The cat was sitting on the chair as if the cat was part of the broadcast.
[00:26.920 --> 00:28.020]  It was really incredible.
[00:28.020 --> 00:32.200]  Now, Greg, you've migrated from the phone over to Skype.
[00:33.640 --> 00:34.080]  Indeed.
[00:34.300 --> 00:39.180]  I'm watching my ping time go down and down as the evening progresses here in Yukon.
[00:39.360 --> 00:40.800]  And we'll see if Skype works.
[00:40.980 --> 00:42.700]  So we'll see if it works out for us.
[00:42.700 --> 00:44.180]  The reason that was necessary...
[00:44.180 --> 00:46.880]  Yeah, that was necessary because we want to be able to take phone calls.
[00:46.960 --> 00:49.780]  And if you're on the phone, obviously, that's a bit of a challenge.
[00:49.940 --> 00:58.420]  But before we get started or continue the conversation, I just wanted to play something for the benefit of YouTube.
[00:58.980 --> 01:00.400]  That election was stolen.
[01:00.600 --> 01:01.240]  It was.
[01:01.380 --> 01:02.300]  And let me tell you why.
[01:02.440 --> 01:05.800]  I'll tell you that as soon as I tell you why all vaccinations are bad.
[01:05.980 --> 01:06.520]  No, I'm kidding.
[01:06.880 --> 01:07.480]  I'm kidding.
[01:07.640 --> 01:08.780]  You know, we can joke, right?
[01:09.180 --> 01:10.060]  We can, right?
[01:11.060 --> 01:11.580]  Can we?
[01:11.860 --> 01:12.740]  Let's find out.
[01:13.420 --> 01:14.000]  Let's see.
[01:14.140 --> 01:19.700]  Let's see what happens if we maybe play this a few times.
[01:19.940 --> 01:22.100]  Boy, it still pisses me off that they did that.
[01:22.300 --> 01:26.560]  That they forced us to jump through hoops and waste our time because they don't understand sarcasm.
[01:26.700 --> 01:28.100]  Well, now, hear me out.
[01:28.700 --> 01:35.100]  Would you be more upset if something really abhorrent was said and it wasn't flagged or recognized?
[01:35.460 --> 01:36.240]  Like, are you...
[01:36.240 --> 01:36.780]  That I said?
[01:36.780 --> 01:38.800]  Are you upset that it's overbearing?
[01:39.060 --> 01:47.280]  Or would you be more upset if it was looser and, like, crazy stuff wasn't getting, you know, little love letters like that?
[01:47.320 --> 01:51.480]  Look, if we had one of those conspiracy podcasts, right?
[01:51.600 --> 02:00.300]  And we were just spreading all kinds of misinformation and lies and things like that, I'd, you know, expect some kind of backlash for that.
[02:00.420 --> 02:03.160]  But that's not what we were doing.
[02:03.260 --> 02:05.220]  They don't have a sarcasm algorithm, though.
[02:05.220 --> 02:07.540]  We're literally talking about disagreeing.
[02:07.680 --> 02:09.180]  That was what the conversation was about.
[02:09.380 --> 02:11.260]  It's about, you know, how we disagree.
[02:11.260 --> 02:17.000]  And just as a joke, I disagreed a lot to show how crazy it can get.
[02:17.240 --> 02:19.460]  But we can handle it, Google.
[02:19.600 --> 02:23.900]  We don't need a paternalistic overlord to tell us how to behave.
[02:24.060 --> 02:31.580]  Now, if you find people that are actively out to spread lies, and that is what they do, yeah, take action against those people.
[02:31.580 --> 02:33.980]  But let us have our conversations.
[02:34.320 --> 02:45.300]  And like I said on the radio show, if somebody calls us and has a different view, and, you know, a view that we might have a problem with, I don't want you to cut it off.
[02:45.720 --> 02:47.220]  Let us deal with it.
[02:47.400 --> 02:49.100]  Let us have the conversation.
[02:49.740 --> 02:51.020]  Work on your network.
[02:51.020 --> 02:52.060]  Look, look, man.
[02:52.300 --> 02:53.280]  I'm taking it.
[02:53.420 --> 02:59.060]  I'm taking it as a compliment that our natural language is crazy natural.
[02:59.780 --> 03:02.560]  It's just, you can't, you can't keep up with it.
[03:02.780 --> 03:03.520]  No, no, you can't.
[03:03.540 --> 03:03.900]  Greg, go ahead.
[03:05.100 --> 03:11.840]  Well, I know there's different theories, but I'm absolutely of the opinion that this is simply pattern matching.
[03:11.840 --> 03:17.040]  And there's no way of, and this is what we saw with Mr. Robot at the HOPE conference.
[03:17.040 --> 03:29.440]  There's really no way of accounting for sarcasm when you're simply looking for strings in your speech-to-text algorithm along the lines of the election is stolen or Trump won.
[03:29.560 --> 03:29.980]  He said it.
[03:30.140 --> 03:30.680]  He said it.
[03:30.940 --> 03:32.700]  Now you're going to flag the whole thing.
[03:33.080 --> 03:33.180]  Yep.
[03:34.580 --> 03:35.740]  Jehovah, Jehovah.
[03:36.320 --> 03:37.600]  I heard that too.
[03:38.360 --> 03:39.360]  Oh my God.
[03:39.500 --> 03:39.600]  Yeah.
[03:39.820 --> 03:40.480]  So, okay.
[03:40.560 --> 03:47.220]  So if, if he can't deal with sarcasm, then that's not how to, to monitor speech, you know?
[03:48.060 --> 03:56.100]  Well, I mean, the whole nuance, the whole nuance, which protects the first amendment and, and balances fair use.
[03:56.240 --> 04:02.460]  I mean, in the U S there's a huge law about this and it's absolutely inconsistent with the idea of pattern matching.
[04:02.460 --> 04:05.960]  I mean, it's all about the nuance and all about the intentions behind the words.
[04:07.220 --> 04:07.480]  Mm-hmm.
[04:08.380 --> 04:11.800]  Uh, Mitch, and you know, I know in Germany, things are a little bit different as far as speech.
[04:11.940 --> 04:15.880]  Is there anything you can point to that, um, that would stand out for us here in America?
[04:17.100 --> 04:29.760]  Yeah, well, it is really interesting that when I first started visiting, uh, Berlin for chaos, uh, Congress in 2006, I was really surprised to find out that Germany does not have freedom of speech.
[04:29.760 --> 04:36.280]  Um, and there's some pretty good reasons for that too, that are interesting.
[04:36.280 --> 04:38.200]  And there's no like real right and wrong.
[04:38.480 --> 04:44.540]  Certainly people's rights are limited by other rights and they come into conflict.
[04:44.680 --> 05:00.140]  Here, there were a bunch of people, uh, a few decades ago that were espousing lies and hatred, and it became a populist kind of a thing, kind of like we're experiencing somewhat recently in our dear land.
[05:00.400 --> 05:05.060]  And, um, and that took over and they don't want to have a repeat of that.
[05:05.200 --> 05:06.800]  So how do you stop that?
[05:06.920 --> 05:13.400]  What's an effective way to stop that while still giving people enough rights to live lives that they find way worth living?
[05:13.620 --> 05:16.560]  And there's no really good answer for all of that.
[05:17.040 --> 05:31.320]  And, and, you know, and similarly what we're experiencing now with so-called social media, there's billions of accounts on there, many of them bots, but many of them actual human beings with very different points of view.
[05:31.560 --> 05:40.380]  And some people are just going out to try to get as popular as pop as possible and playing off this populism thing.
[05:40.820 --> 05:52.980]  How can, how can it, how can these companies possibly limit that without impinging on the rights of others accidentally or purposefully?
[05:53.180 --> 06:02.040]  You know, and here we have, uh, someone who I love to hate, Elon Musk, claiming that he's going to take Twitter and make it a free speech haven.
[06:02.460 --> 06:05.360]  Um, I hate to see what that's going to come to.
[06:05.600 --> 06:11.480]  And our, our, our actual friend aesthetics wants to see Twitter go out of business as a result of all of that.
[06:11.580 --> 06:12.860]  And that might actually happen.
[06:13.580 --> 06:13.800]  Wow.
[06:14.260 --> 06:14.680]  Yeah.
[06:15.000 --> 06:17.500]  We're witnessing a lot of things here, definitely.
[06:17.760 --> 06:19.460]  And somehow we keep getting dragged into it.
[06:20.380 --> 06:20.860]  Yeah.
[06:20.980 --> 06:25.400]  Well, as, uh, hackers, as you point out, we're always pushing limits.
[06:25.540 --> 06:33.480]  And so it makes sense that we're going to be the people who sort of have to pay the deal with some consequences earlier than others.
[06:33.680 --> 06:34.920]  That election was stolen.
[06:35.180 --> 06:35.760]  It was.
[06:37.240 --> 06:38.640]  Oh, that's going to be our new theme.
[06:38.840 --> 06:39.480]  It really is.
[06:39.700 --> 06:41.480]  We're going to keep saying that over and over again.
[06:41.880 --> 06:42.540]  What else can I say?
[06:42.820 --> 06:43.720]  Vaccinations are bad.
[06:43.980 --> 06:45.200]  Everything is, is evil.
[06:46.180 --> 06:47.520]  The government is not your friend.
[06:48.920 --> 06:49.900]  Don't push us.
[06:50.100 --> 06:52.460]  We'll, we'll say all the things you don't want us to say.
[06:52.640 --> 07:11.400]  If, uh, if, if you overdo it, I think especially go ahead, Greg, uh, that, that hates hate speech is, is, is going to be more protected than, than, uh, than, than like a legitimate, uh, even intellectual debate over something like vaccination, for example.
[07:11.760 --> 07:16.620]  So, uh, yeah, we're, we're, I mean, the thing related to what Mitch was saying is we're in an attention economy.
[07:16.800 --> 07:21.620]  I mean, and you could trace all this back well beyond someone like Hitler in Germany.
[07:22.280 --> 07:33.800]  Um, but nowadays people get news coverage, they get TikTok coverage, you know, they get retweeted, whatever it is, when they say something that's over the top and absurd and maybe false.
[07:34.040 --> 07:39.760]  And then, you know, maybe eventually they end up in front of a court or something, and then they can't say that anymore.
[07:39.760 --> 07:54.620]  And we see this all the time in the, in the U S midterm elections where, where, uh, uh, the absurd over the top statement gets you the headlines and, uh, and the debate never, almost never even gets a chance to, to occur.
[07:54.940 --> 08:10.700]  And I don't know what to do about the, uh, the, the, the, well, I guess what I was saying before the role of automated, you know, censorship, basically, you know, but automated pattern matching some, I mean, I think there's a role for that, but it doesn't do anything about the extreme,
[08:10.700 --> 08:21.420]  uh, attention getting that, uh, you know, that bypasses all that stuff and uses subtlety and, and maybe, maybe more subtle sarcasm than, uh, than what we're doing here.
[08:22.260 --> 08:22.660]  Yeah.
[08:22.780 --> 08:25.060]  And also it makes martyrs of the wrong people.
[08:25.240 --> 08:28.160]  And that's something really to be concerned with.
[08:28.560 --> 08:32.920]  So, um, there's pointers, there's all kinds of advice we can, we can offer.
[08:33.120 --> 08:37.780]  We've been dealing with this kind of crap for a long time with, uh, you know, BBS is an IRC and all that.
[08:38.260 --> 08:48.100]  So, uh, maybe Google somewhat new to the game, but, uh, there's, there's ways of, um, of, uh, controlling the quality of, of content and ways not to do that.
[08:48.700 --> 08:54.160]  And I think we're, we're seeing some, some demonstrations on, you know, just on, on the subject, you're talking about the hate speech.
[08:54.240 --> 08:56.220]  Hate speech is not something we engage with.
[08:56.540 --> 09:01.500]  I mean, if somebody called up and had all kinds of hate speech to share, no, we wouldn't continue that conversation.
[09:01.620 --> 09:02.120]  Absolutely not.
[09:02.160 --> 09:14.300]  But if somebody is woefully misled on, um, a topic on something going on in the news, we have every right to have that conversation and we resent greatly being told that we can't talk about that.
[09:14.540 --> 09:16.160]  So that's, that's the line for us.
[09:16.340 --> 09:16.760]  We have a call.
[09:17.120 --> 09:18.420]  We didn't get off the phone number yet.
[09:18.420 --> 09:20.080]  So, you know, it's gotta be rebel, right?
[09:20.420 --> 09:21.420]  It's probably rebel.
[09:22.180 --> 09:24.260]  802-321-4225.
[09:24.600 --> 09:26.040]  But right now the, the line is occupied.
[09:26.040 --> 09:27.340]  So let's see who's out there.
[09:27.460 --> 09:27.840]  Good evening.
[09:27.860 --> 09:28.840]  You're on off the hook over time.
[09:30.040 --> 09:33.500]  Well, it's not rebel, but it's, uh, Phil from Virginia.
[09:33.760 --> 09:34.840]  It's Phil from Virginia.
[09:35.080 --> 09:35.220]  Okay.
[09:35.340 --> 09:36.680]  Well, you're the new rebel, I guess.
[09:37.620 --> 09:37.980]  Yeah.
[09:38.640 --> 09:40.080]  Um, well, it's been a while.
[09:40.080 --> 09:41.660]  Um, a lot's happened.
[09:41.980 --> 09:45.060]  Um, we, uh, sucker punch day in the asteroid.
[09:45.680 --> 09:46.520]  That's true.
[09:47.860 --> 09:54.320]  We, uh, I mean, I, I think it's just amazing that we were able, we're able to manipulate stellar objects.
[09:54.520 --> 10:03.160]  Now, did you hear about the scientists that had human brain cells in a petri dish playing pong?
[10:04.040 --> 10:05.800]  I did not hear that.
[10:05.960 --> 10:06.940]  Kyle, you heard about this?
[10:07.240 --> 10:07.400]  Yes.
[10:07.880 --> 10:07.960]  What, what?
[10:08.080 --> 10:10.520]  Tell us what's, uh, uh, go ahead, call it.
[10:10.580 --> 10:11.000]  You tell us.
[10:12.160 --> 10:12.920]  Well, okay.
[10:13.180 --> 10:19.420]  They were experimented with brain cells and they cultivate some brain cells into a petri dish and taught it to play pong.
[10:20.640 --> 10:21.140]  Okay.
[10:21.260 --> 10:24.080]  I, I'm both amazed and freaked out and scared.
[10:25.000 --> 10:25.500]  Yes.
[10:25.660 --> 10:26.920]  Because, okay.
[10:27.140 --> 10:28.780]  Is that a human being now?
[10:29.100 --> 10:29.240]  Right.
[10:29.560 --> 10:30.760]  Cause it's human brain cells.
[10:31.180 --> 10:31.500]  Right.
[10:32.020 --> 10:35.800]  Well, the ability to play pong, is that how you measure what's human and what's not?
[10:37.620 --> 10:38.420]  I don't know.
[10:38.540 --> 10:40.880]  It sells in a, it sells in a petri dish.
[10:41.020 --> 10:42.000]  Why is human now?
[10:42.140 --> 10:44.420]  I mean, I'm pretty sure Mitch's cat can play pong.
[10:44.620 --> 10:46.460]  So that doesn't, that doesn't make it human.
[10:47.720 --> 10:52.200]  Well, you know, um, I don't know.
[10:52.300 --> 10:54.620]  You got these, um, you got these anti-abortion people.
[10:54.720 --> 10:55.720]  What would they think about it?
[10:56.400 --> 10:56.840]  Okay.
[10:56.840 --> 10:57.740]  Let's confuse them.
[10:57.900 --> 10:58.460]  That's a good idea.
[10:59.780 --> 11:01.020]  Only if you lose the game.
[11:01.140 --> 11:09.140]  But you know, is that biological AI or would that be a definition of biological AI?
[11:09.320 --> 11:11.980]  I just, I just want to get into the mind of this guy.
[11:12.120 --> 11:12.720]  It's like, you know what?
[11:12.740 --> 11:18.120]  I'm going to go with a petri dish and this was the, was this the goal or was it an accident?
[11:19.560 --> 11:23.720]  No, this is, I think, I think it was just, um, something they were playing around with.
[11:24.320 --> 11:29.380]  Uh, but, but can you imagine your cell phone having a human neural network?
[11:29.720 --> 11:31.620]  What if it develops schizophrenia?
[11:33.120 --> 11:34.920]  I wish my cell phone had pong.
[11:35.140 --> 11:36.300]  Now that I think about it.
[11:37.160 --> 11:51.540]  That is interesting that if you're using biological based, um, uh, processors and if they have like a mental breakdown, you have true like panic in your system because it's, it's having, it's having a rough day or something.
[11:51.780 --> 11:51.780]  Wow.
[11:52.700 --> 11:56.880]  If, if you were to put this thing, like make a space probe with it, right?
[11:58.120 --> 12:02.400]  I have some way for it to have like a nutrient bath or something like that to keep a lob in.
[12:02.860 --> 12:03.300]  Uh-huh.
[12:03.660 --> 12:06.020]  What to keep the space probe from going frigging nuts?
[12:07.400 --> 12:08.980]  Uh, that's something to worry about.
[12:09.260 --> 12:09.400]  It'd be so lonely.
[12:10.680 --> 12:12.080]  Mitch, uh, you had something.
[12:12.180 --> 12:12.400]  Go ahead.
[12:15.220 --> 12:15.780]  Mitch?
[12:16.100 --> 12:17.280]  Let me, uh, there we go.
[12:17.360 --> 12:19.720]  It took a while for, for Skype to unmute me.
[12:20.140 --> 12:36.200]  Uh, I just looked up and there's an NPR story, uh, saying that about 800,000 cells linked to a computer gradually learned to sense the position of the pong games, electronic ball and control a virtual paddle.
[12:37.800 --> 12:38.320]  Wow.
[12:38.540 --> 12:41.320]  And that's in, uh, the journal Neuron.
[12:41.860 --> 12:52.440]  So evidently this actually happened and it was intentional to use this actual neurons as the neural network to learn to play this simple game.
[12:52.680 --> 12:55.080]  And what happens when they learn how to play Grand Theft Auto?
[12:56.180 --> 12:57.860]  Um, yeah.
[12:57.860 --> 13:00.140]  I'm worried about them cinnamon robots, you know?
[13:01.420 --> 13:03.380]  Forget Terminator, it's going to be worse.
[13:04.580 --> 13:05.400]  Greg, go ahead.
[13:05.400 --> 13:06.680]  Have robots going around?
[13:06.880 --> 13:09.440]  Yeah, I think that's, uh, go ahead, Greg.
[13:10.160 --> 13:20.360]  This may be not too surprising about this is, uh, and it's not, you barely even need a neural network is, uh, this is, you know, basically operant and repetitive conditioning.
[13:20.580 --> 13:28.740]  You know, this is the type of thing that, uh, bacteria can learn and, uh, you know, nematodes, which only have a few hundred neurons and things like this.
[13:28.880 --> 13:37.980]  So, so, you know, if you think of pong in terms of, uh, going towards reward and away from punishment or, you know, a combination of both, I'd say it's not, not really too surprising.
[13:38.200 --> 13:41.580]  You can, you can, this is something that is a really very, very basic game.
[13:41.840 --> 13:47.580]  Uh, Grand Theft Auto would be, would be indeed a little more interesting or, or, you know, even chess or checkers or something like that.
[13:47.580 --> 13:48.620]  Mm-hmm.
[13:49.400 --> 13:51.240]  Self-driving cars with human neurons.
[13:52.880 --> 13:54.380]  There's Christine right there, right?
[13:54.700 --> 13:56.000]  Well, we'll check in in 20 years.
[13:56.080 --> 13:57.860]  I'm sure we'll be further along.
[13:58.800 --> 13:59.480]  Go ahead, Greg.
[13:59.780 --> 14:05.860]  Uh, I do have an idea, which is maybe we put these, uh, this petri dish full of neurons in charge of censorship on YouTube.
[14:06.180 --> 14:07.260]  Maybe that's part of the answer.
[14:07.460 --> 14:08.280]  Look for those strings.
[14:08.560 --> 14:08.900]  Yeah.
[14:09.120 --> 14:10.000]  Maybe it's already in charge.
[14:10.000 --> 14:11.380]  That could be why it happened.
[14:11.500 --> 14:11.740]  Absolutely.
[14:12.760 --> 14:15.860]  Well, uh, uh, Carla, anything else going on down there in Virginia?
[14:16.800 --> 14:17.780]  Uh, let's see.
[14:17.920 --> 14:22.540]  While I'm working on the parade stuff, um, I got, like, the 501st.
[14:22.660 --> 14:25.480]  You ever heard of the 501st, uh, Stormtroopers?
[14:26.260 --> 14:27.500]  I don't think so.
[14:28.540 --> 14:32.680]  They're a charity that, like, just, like, Stormtroopers for the Halloween thing.
[14:32.960 --> 14:34.160]  They might show up.
[14:34.280 --> 14:36.660]  I got, like, a guy who calls stuff for West Virginia Batman.
[14:37.600 --> 14:42.380]  He's got, like, an actual Batmobile, uh, like the 89 Batmobile.
[14:43.540 --> 14:44.020]  Wow.
[14:44.400 --> 14:44.640]  Um...
[14:44.640 --> 14:46.040]  And this is all for a Halloween...
[14:46.040 --> 14:46.760]  Yeah, I want my astronomy...
[14:46.760 --> 14:47.500]  Yeah.
[14:47.740 --> 14:49.300]  This is a Halloween parade you're organizing?
[14:50.280 --> 14:50.760]  Yeah.
[14:50.980 --> 14:51.260]  Awesome.
[14:51.420 --> 14:51.660]  I can hear, yeah.
[14:51.760 --> 14:52.040]  Wow.
[14:52.560 --> 14:52.800]  Yeah.
[14:53.240 --> 14:54.920]  And I got my astronomy club.
[14:55.160 --> 14:56.580]  I got a room for it.
[14:56.800 --> 15:00.720]  The first meeting's, like, on, uh, November 19th.
[15:00.860 --> 15:03.900]  I am getting... Have you heard of Skype with scientists?
[15:04.960 --> 15:05.440]  No.
[15:06.680 --> 15:07.160]  Okay.
[15:07.780 --> 15:14.460]  Well, it's where you can, like, use Skype to talk to scientists and they'll, like, do little lectures or whatever with you or do Q&As.
[15:14.660 --> 15:17.560]  So I'm trying to get a couple of astronomers for that.
[15:18.620 --> 15:19.100]  Um...
[15:19.100 --> 15:20.320]  To link into your club?
[15:21.420 --> 15:21.900]  Yeah.
[15:22.300 --> 15:22.720]  Great.
[15:22.840 --> 15:23.440]  That's a good idea.
[15:25.080 --> 15:25.600]  And you...
[15:25.600 --> 15:25.980]  You've...
[15:25.980 --> 15:31.660]  You've done all this since we talked to you last, organizing, uh, astronomy club and parades?
[15:31.800 --> 15:31.800]  Well, yeah.
[15:32.100 --> 15:35.740]  I'm waiting on to hear from the animal shelter.
[15:36.060 --> 15:45.080]  And I gotta call the community society here to see if I'll get me, uh, a tax code to give to PetSmart to see if they will sponsor the pet parade thing.
[15:46.400 --> 15:46.920]  Um...
[15:46.920 --> 15:49.260]  Didn't this all start with you getting them to cut a branch?
[15:50.360 --> 15:50.880]  Yeah.
[15:51.360 --> 15:51.880]  Amazing.
[15:52.400 --> 15:53.720]  This... This is inspirational.
[15:54.060 --> 15:58.400]  I just showed up at the, um, at the, um, town meeting one night.
[15:58.560 --> 15:58.780]  Uh-huh.
[15:59.740 --> 16:04.140]  And, uh, you know, just did my, did my thing.
[16:04.780 --> 16:14.640]  And, uh, um, it turns out our town is so broke that they're trying to use rent off an old bar to try to pay for a fire truck.
[16:14.860 --> 16:16.700]  So I'm just gonna, like, slide in.
[16:16.820 --> 16:18.840]  Well, why can't we just do a tax, you know?
[16:19.060 --> 16:20.140]  Make more sense.
[16:20.380 --> 16:23.320]  But it's... It's Virginia.
[16:24.040 --> 16:27.040]  Well, it sounds like, it sounds like they're listening to you, which is awesome.
[16:28.100 --> 16:28.540]  Yeah.
[16:29.120 --> 16:30.860]  Um, I got the, I got the permits.
[16:31.000 --> 16:36.880]  I gotta fill out the permits, because I don't know how well this is gonna go, and I've still got a year off for it.
[16:37.140 --> 16:46.020]  Like, I'm, I'm planning for June to be the pet parade thing, and, uh, Halloween, around Halloween for the Halloween, like a week before Halloween.
[16:46.440 --> 16:52.780]  It went so much as, uh, email Elvira, because I wanted her to, like, judge the other bar lookalike content.
[16:53.100 --> 16:53.440]  Okay.
[16:55.220 --> 17:06.880]  But, yeah, I mean, uh, um, I'm just trying to keep from going crazy in my little apartment, but... Also, um, did you, have you been watching a Dale Brooks case?
[17:07.420 --> 17:08.260]  The which case?
[17:09.500 --> 17:10.380]  Dale Brooks.
[17:11.680 --> 17:12.540]  No, I don't think so.
[17:12.540 --> 17:13.880]  The guy ran into the parade.
[17:14.920 --> 17:15.360]  Okay.
[17:15.360 --> 17:16.600]  I, I didn't know the name.
[17:16.700 --> 17:20.340]  I didn't want to know the name, but, uh, uh, I heard about it, yes.
[17:21.320 --> 17:33.680]  He is a sovereign citizen, which means, just like those ranchers out west from a while back, the government can't tell us what to do, because we declare ourselves independent from the government, blah, blah, blah.
[17:34.140 --> 17:54.040]  So, he's there renting a raven, and, um, not making themselves look pretty, look any good, but yesterday, a person went on to Reddit, claiming to be a juror from, um, from the, uh, trial, and almost led to a mistrial.
[17:55.240 --> 17:59.140]  They had an investigation and so forth, and later on, it turned out to be a prank.
[18:00.240 --> 18:16.840]  But, you know, um, like, uh, I was watching one of your YouTube, um, lawyers talk about it, and they're like, well, you know, that's why we can't have nice things, because when you do things publicly, like it's when you, like, publicly live stream, like,
[18:17.160 --> 18:21.040]  um, trials, you're going to get people like this, and it can lead to a mistrial.
[18:21.640 --> 18:22.200]  I guess.
[18:22.760 --> 18:24.820]  Well, while you think about that, I mean...
[18:24.820 --> 18:28.760]  Well, it's not going to be a mistrial if, if the person's just lying and isn't an actual juror.
[18:29.320 --> 18:31.040]  You know, people do that all the time.
[18:31.040 --> 18:38.980]  If they, if they were to, you know, well, say the judge, like, say, okay, well, you know, we can't risk this.
[18:39.540 --> 18:46.440]  And I know the juror said he didn't do it, but still, you know, we're going to have to get a new jury, and this child got to start over, right?
[18:47.160 --> 18:53.680]  Well, that'd be a pretty dim way to judge if they had no evidence and were simply relying on somebody posting to Reddit, saying they were on a jury.
[18:54.240 --> 18:56.080]  Uh, you need actual evidence.
[18:56.080 --> 19:09.200]  No, it just shows, it just shows how, how something we do, how we, we, we can make a little, little, just a little joke, like you were talking about earlier, like being sarcastic and stuff like that.
[19:09.940 --> 19:16.440]  We can make a little joke, and all of a sudden they can be blown up, out proportionate to something that wasn't meant to be.
[19:16.820 --> 19:21.000]  Well, I mean, if, if it's a juror making a joke, that is a big deal.
[19:21.140 --> 19:25.360]  If it's, if it's somebody who's not related to the case in any way, then it's, it's completely irrelevant.
[19:26.520 --> 19:26.860]  Yeah.
[19:27.120 --> 19:34.140]  I don't know if, uh, I don't know if the person could be charged with anything, um, who did it.
[19:34.380 --> 19:35.200]  Well, it depends.
[19:35.340 --> 19:37.740]  You know, if they're just lying on Reddit, I don't think that's a crime.
[19:38.000 --> 19:42.440]  If it is a juror, in fact, messing up the whole case, then there's probably some kind of penalty for that.
[19:43.420 --> 19:43.760]  Yeah.
[19:44.260 --> 19:47.680]  But, uh, from what you told me, I, I, I assume it's not a juror, so.
[19:48.720 --> 19:51.260]  I didn't get to talk to you about the Alex Jones thing.
[19:51.720 --> 19:53.280]  Um, so what's your take on that?
[19:53.460 --> 19:54.040]  About what now?
[19:55.100 --> 19:58.300]  Alex Jones and the almost billion dollars is going to pay out.
[19:59.340 --> 20:01.620]  Uh, the Infowars settlement.
[20:01.800 --> 20:02.680]  Oh, Alex Jones.
[20:03.360 --> 20:04.060]  Oh boy.
[20:04.260 --> 20:04.740]  Uh, yeah.
[20:04.920 --> 20:07.940]  Well, you know, here's, here's, here's my thought on that.
[20:08.120 --> 20:14.840]  Um, you know, it's a hefty penalty, but, uh, he's a, a pretty hefty, um, uh, idiot.
[20:15.800 --> 20:21.820]  And, and, and he caused so much pain, so much anguish, tortured people who were already victims.
[20:22.480 --> 20:31.820]  And, um, you know, I, I don't expect him to cough up a billion dollars, but I also don't expect him to ever get rich or to benefit in any way from any of this.
[20:32.080 --> 20:40.200]  He should basically be living out his days now paying off those people that he, he basically tortured for no reason.
[20:40.380 --> 20:42.500]  I mean, why would someone do something like that?
[20:42.600 --> 20:44.500]  It's so disgusting, you know?
[20:44.500 --> 20:44.680]  No.
[20:44.860 --> 20:49.320]  And we, we talk about, we talk about sending messages to people for the crimes they commit.
[20:49.400 --> 20:50.500]  Well, where's the message here?
[20:50.660 --> 21:02.540]  You know, that, that you can, you can spread a whole lot of crap that's completely false, uh, and make people who are already suffering, suffer even more and, and, and become a celebrity, become more of a celebrity, benefits, sell t-shirts.
[21:02.760 --> 21:03.660]  No, no.
[21:03.980 --> 21:06.880]  If you do something like that, you're held accountable.
[21:07.320 --> 21:07.700]  All right.
[21:07.800 --> 21:11.360]  And, um, we, we, we, we, we have to treat each other better than this.
[21:12.000 --> 21:12.520]  Yeah.
[21:12.820 --> 21:20.620]  I felt very strongly about this, uh, like people trading in, uh, what the hacking community is all about.
[21:20.640 --> 21:36.740]  And then all of a sudden representing it, profiting and misrepresenting it and, and, uh, making it out to be something for their aims instead of, uh, something that is widely, um, kind of self-directed and understood as other people understand it.
[21:36.740 --> 21:38.500]  That's just greed and, and, and simple theft.
[21:38.680 --> 21:40.820]  And this is, this is beyond that.
[21:40.940 --> 21:43.080]  This is hurting innocent people.
[21:43.240 --> 21:43.920]  And making money.
[21:44.300 --> 21:46.780]  I mean, that was, that was the big thing is he was trading in it.
[21:47.340 --> 21:48.800]  So yeah, that case is...
[21:48.800 --> 21:50.240]  You can't get more, this is like Stephen Miller evil.
[21:50.360 --> 21:51.960]  You can't get more evil than this.
[21:52.100 --> 21:53.120]  You really can't.
[21:53.240 --> 21:53.400]  Yeah.
[21:53.860 --> 21:55.700]  So, uh, you know, I applaud the verdict.
[21:55.840 --> 22:01.400]  I applaud the penalty and I just hope that something happens where, you know, he, he, he feels the pain.
[22:02.420 --> 22:02.940]  Yeah.
[22:03.220 --> 22:08.820]  I mean, it's, it's, I'm hoping to see them, see the victims like actually take over the InfoWars studio.
[22:09.280 --> 22:14.500]  I hope to see the InfoWars studio be turned into something completely different.
[22:14.860 --> 22:20.520]  You know, it doesn't pollute any airwaves or, or, uh, anything anymore.
[22:20.960 --> 22:30.320]  I mean, this guy, he was mocking, he was mocking the, um, uh, the people even after this was announced saying they're not going to get a penny that I think they're going to get any money.
[22:31.400 --> 22:33.460]  He doesn't get, he needs to get it.
[22:33.640 --> 22:34.600]  There is no question about that.
[22:34.720 --> 22:35.760]  Greg, you had something to say about this?
[22:37.240 --> 22:43.600]  Uh, the specific thing, you know, Alex had been de-platformed already and de-platformed again.
[22:43.600 --> 22:50.400]  And we can just hope that he keeps getting de-platformed more and more so that he has no way of getting his wacky message out.
[22:50.640 --> 22:58.860]  And, uh, and that's, there's some justice in that in addition to, uh, you know, uh, restitution, but also being unable to continue.
[22:59.040 --> 23:06.600]  And unfortunately he didn't express a lot of regret and it sounds like he's going to be trying, uh, to, uh, you know, to, to, to keep, keep on.
[23:06.760 --> 23:10.140]  And I thought that there was a broader, uh, uh, topic there.
[23:10.300 --> 23:27.220]  I just saw a New York times, uh, newsletter about the different platforms, you know, in the context of Musk buying Twitter, but also saying that all these, uh, uh, replacement platforms like Parlay, um, they had something like 40,000 users per day versus Facebook,
[23:27.240 --> 23:30.900]  which still has something like, you know, billion and a half users per day.
[23:31.060 --> 23:38.640]  So even these alternate platforms are having a lot of difficulty, uh, thriving and surviving, which to me is, is probably okay.
[23:38.720 --> 23:46.180]  I mean, I mean, I like the idea of having small micro platforms, you know, we know all about that in the hacker community and there's, there's something to be said for that.
[23:46.340 --> 23:57.620]  On the other hand, if the platform exists, just like Alex Jones, just to abuse, just to profit from the pain of others, then, you know, basically, you know, fuck them because we're on YouTube and we can say that.
[23:57.680 --> 23:58.200]  You can say that.
[23:58.320 --> 23:59.120]  Uh, go ahead, Mitch.
[23:59.140 --> 23:59.560]  And then Kyle.
[24:01.200 --> 24:01.600]  Yeah.
[24:01.940 --> 24:05.780]  Well, um, I don't know if, uh, how many people are aware of this.
[24:05.900 --> 24:12.000]  There's a movie that came out like about 1980, uh, Richard Linklater's first movie called Slacker.
[24:12.700 --> 24:15.000]  And, um, it's an, it's an interesting film.
[24:15.140 --> 24:18.340]  If you've never seen it, uh, I recommend checking it out.
[24:18.500 --> 24:19.540]  There's not much of a plot.
[24:19.720 --> 24:24.840]  It starts off at dawn and then goes from character to character to character and then back at dawn.
[24:25.020 --> 24:33.820]  And the movie starts and ends with this total wacko in a van with a huge speaker on the top with a PA.
[24:34.100 --> 24:52.300]  And he's saying all sorts of crap that, um, in 1980, he was, and this is actually a real character who existed in Austin, Texas, where the movie was made and our, uh, Linklater, the filmmaker, uh, lived and, uh, he was kind of like laughed at and he seemed harmless enough.
[24:52.600 --> 24:58.780]  Uh, he was spouting all sorts of conspiracy weirdness and that was Alex Jones.
[24:59.060 --> 24:59.900]  Oh, wow.
[25:00.140 --> 25:07.220]  And that was his platform back then was a microphone with an amplifier and a speaker on a van.
[25:07.440 --> 25:10.560]  And he just drove it around all day in Austin, Texas.
[25:10.980 --> 25:13.020]  And back then that was harmless.
[25:13.400 --> 25:17.520]  People could laugh at him and he was kind of fun, uh, in a weird way.
[25:17.640 --> 25:19.840]  And he thrived on that kind of attention.
[25:20.600 --> 25:31.480]  Uh, fast forward, uh, a few decades to so-called social media and that same message repeated finds that people have likes.
[25:31.740 --> 25:45.040]  And this same guy finds that he can magnify those kind of messages and get more and more extreme and more and more absurd really, and get more and more attention.
[25:45.880 --> 25:51.880]  And this is, you know, part of the problem with these so-called social network platforms.
[25:52.140 --> 26:01.820]  Uh, you know, as Greg said, there's billions of people there and, uh, there's going to be a lot of different people using it for all sorts of different motivations.
[26:02.200 --> 26:12.200]  I don't think there's any way to actually stop, uh, it being used just to get attention for attention's sake and people profiting from that.
[26:12.540 --> 26:18.540]  There's lots of attempts and I'm glad people are trying, but, um, yeah, good luck with that.
[26:19.020 --> 26:19.340]  Yeah.
[26:19.420 --> 26:20.680]  You can copy it.
[26:20.740 --> 26:25.440]  It's imitatable and it lives on because there are recordings of it.
[26:25.920 --> 26:38.620]  Um, and the, the, the sites, the larger ones that this, uh, that we found, uh, propagated this, uh, so well, because that's how they were designed and are, are run.
[26:38.840 --> 26:54.840]  And, and then as far as we can, uh, presume, we don't have a lot of insight, although there's been, um, a lot of asking and a lot of questions around that, but basically these smaller sites like parlor and other ones, like as Greg was referencing are,
[26:54.840 --> 26:58.100]  are, uh, themselves, um, isolated.
[26:58.280 --> 27:00.680]  They don't interoperate as well as some of them.
[27:00.900 --> 27:04.380]  I don't know if they're based on discord or any of the federated stuff.
[27:04.580 --> 27:07.740]  There's, there's a lot of cloning of systems and, and so forth.
[27:07.740 --> 27:27.320]  But, uh, when you have a much larger system that casts that out over a broad pool of people who are essentially all connected on this one service that is distinct from smaller services, um, that are kind of isolated because they don't know, they can maybe share links and so forth depending on the type of service,
[27:27.480 --> 27:31.760]  but they are, um, basically fragmented, but still there.
[27:32.200 --> 27:34.000]  Um, so the effect is different.
[27:34.140 --> 27:44.220]  Maybe the, the algorithms, the, the base of whatever platform it is, doesn't operate essentially exactly the same way, but, um, they're not going away.
[27:44.380 --> 27:52.200]  And, and when, when they are, um, uh, persisting in isolation, we need insight about it.
[27:52.300 --> 28:08.900]  I think people need to know what is being said there, uh, whether it's policed or not, but we also need to be aware of like, uh, uh, the ability of them to connect and, and, you know, what kinds of, um, shape it's changing forms and, and, and moving around in constantly.
[28:09.180 --> 28:19.900]  Um, because it's, it's, it seems to be, uh, an, an ideology and a behavior that, um, hasn't been resolved socially.
[28:21.700 --> 28:22.260]  Yeah.
[28:22.900 --> 28:25.960]  Um, the, it, the sad thing is that, is that it works.
[28:26.160 --> 28:40.180]  It makes people money and that's how you get the Charlie Cooks and the Prager University and, and Fox News and, and, and, you know, like, uh, Ben Shapiro, you get all those guys and it's because it works.
[28:40.440 --> 28:41.240]  It makes them money.
[28:41.600 --> 28:46.920]  And, you know, the thing is, it makes, it makes them money, makes them famous, but for some reason, that's not enough.
[28:47.060 --> 28:48.960]  They have to keep going for the, for the jugular.
[28:49.080 --> 28:56.300]  They have to like, you know, uh, make people really hurt and, and, and, and be just complete jerks.
[28:56.560 --> 28:59.580]  And, and we have to, we have to react when people do this.
[29:00.560 --> 29:01.040]  Yeah.
[29:01.200 --> 29:07.660]  It's like their Republican Party now has like this, uh, like this hit list of what they want to do to everybody.
[29:08.120 --> 29:11.480]  Like now they're trying to block the, um, uh, student loan thing.
[29:12.520 --> 29:15.160]  Um, which I don't understand.
[29:15.160 --> 29:18.960]  Why would you want to block a debtor from like not collecting on their debt?
[29:19.340 --> 29:20.620]  That's making sense.
[29:21.340 --> 29:22.980]  I mean, it's no, yeah.
[29:23.480 --> 29:42.060]  Their claim, their claim, um, the, um, the states that have like probably injunction of halt it or stay it, um, their claim is that it's going to take tax money away from the states, but the Republicans are anti-tax, right?
[29:42.320 --> 29:42.560]  So.
[29:44.180 --> 29:44.660]  Yeah.
[29:44.760 --> 29:46.660]  I guess you can trip them up on their own logic there.
[29:46.920 --> 29:54.960]  Um, I just wonder how somebody in a state, uh, where your state is fighting to make sure that you don't get loan forgiveness.
[29:55.460 --> 30:01.060]  Uh, how does that make you feel, you know, where you do everything in your power to make sure those people who got reelected?
[30:01.300 --> 30:01.660]  Yeah.
[30:01.720 --> 30:02.600]  I sure hope so.
[30:02.840 --> 30:06.500]  I know, I know the people, I know the people who support these cops are all in on it.
[30:07.380 --> 30:08.440]  They're all for it.
[30:08.640 --> 30:13.040]  And you, you try to talk to them out and they get mad and just like hang up on you or whatever.
[30:13.440 --> 30:13.660]  Yeah.
[30:13.840 --> 30:21.200]  But, um, um, but it's like the, I think it's just reality getting them and they don't want to face it.
[30:22.000 --> 30:23.020]  Like, wait a minute, what?
[30:23.660 --> 30:23.900]  Hmm.
[30:24.360 --> 30:24.800]  Wait a minute.
[30:24.980 --> 30:31.100]  Uh, I could have an electric car now, but I would rather keep paying $5 a gallon for cash.
[30:31.320 --> 30:33.900]  And yeah, it's, it's nuts.
[30:35.560 --> 30:37.880]  Hey, listen, we're going to open up the phones to some more people.
[30:37.980 --> 30:38.800]  It was great hearing from you though.
[30:38.980 --> 30:39.040]  Oh, I'm sorry.
[30:39.160 --> 30:40.140]  No, I apologize.
[30:40.460 --> 30:44.340]  It's you, you've, you've done some amazing things down there and I hope, uh, uh, to hear more.
[30:45.380 --> 30:47.080]  Well, I hope to pull it off.
[30:47.260 --> 30:49.800]  I mean, it's a lot of hard work.
[30:50.100 --> 30:50.620]  Uh huh.
[30:50.740 --> 30:52.380]  But it feels, it feels good, doesn't it?
[30:52.440 --> 30:54.580]  It feels good when you actually get a response.
[30:54.580 --> 30:55.380]  Yeah, I got real happy.
[30:55.620 --> 31:00.200]  I got real happy about the Batman thing because I'm like, man, that's going to be pretty cool.
[31:00.460 --> 31:02.300]  Um, it's only the beginning.
[31:02.400 --> 31:06.000]  He apparently charges by how far, far he has to drive or whatever.
[31:06.220 --> 31:07.740]  So hopefully he can figure that out.
[31:08.480 --> 31:15.920]  Uh, but you know, um, I, uh, also, you know, they, um, a charity group that's like, uh, Ghostbusters.
[31:16.220 --> 31:18.460]  They, uh, I'll play Ghostbusters.
[31:18.640 --> 31:19.540]  They go around and do stuff.
[31:20.740 --> 31:20.840]  Yeah.
[31:20.960 --> 31:22.140]  You'll find all kinds of characters.
[31:22.320 --> 31:22.620]  I'm sure.
[31:23.520 --> 31:23.980]  Yeah.
[31:24.420 --> 31:27.160]  Well, uh, it's good talking to you guys again.
[31:27.420 --> 31:28.060]  Uh, likewise.
[31:28.360 --> 31:31.520]  And, um, I'll catch you later.
[31:31.680 --> 31:31.880]  All right.
[31:31.980 --> 31:32.340]  Take care.
[31:33.300 --> 31:33.800]  Later on.
[31:35.020 --> 31:35.200]  Wow.
[31:36.160 --> 31:39.320]  802-321-4225 is our telephone number.
[31:40.220 --> 31:42.760]  Um, yeah, great hearing from, uh, from our callers.
[31:42.760 --> 31:44.220]  We haven't talked to you in so long.
[31:44.480 --> 31:45.160]  It's been a while.
[31:45.380 --> 31:45.680]  Go ahead, Greg.
[31:45.940 --> 31:49.880]  Can I make a, uh, related pitch for a podcast?
[31:50.280 --> 31:50.400]  Yes.
[31:50.620 --> 32:02.940]  So, uh, you mentioned on the BAI show, uh, the power of the airwaves and, and how wonderful it is that the, the, you know, the, the radio station, and we know that, uh, mass media is still out there, TV and radio.
[32:03.260 --> 32:06.480]  There's a fantastic podcast called the flamethrowers.
[32:06.820 --> 32:08.160]  It's a CBC podcast.
[32:08.840 --> 32:12.940]  And it, uh, includes the story that we just heard about Alex Jones.
[32:13.200 --> 32:23.740]  And it focuses a lot on the career of Rush Limbaugh and how he essentially was a kingmaker to the tune of, uh, really being instrumental in getting Donald Trump in the, in the white house.
[32:23.880 --> 32:30.500]  But it also goes all the way back to some religious people and a lot of other things, uh, in the, uh, 1930s afterwards.
[32:30.800 --> 32:37.120]  So the flamethrowers, CBC podcasts about power of the radio, and basically how this stuff sells.
[32:37.460 --> 32:40.040]  And that's all you need to know about why they keep doing it.
[32:40.040 --> 32:47.540]  It's because they can keep making, uh, you know, being extreme and having extreme viewpoints, regardless of, uh, of truth or, or consequences.
[32:47.800 --> 32:51.400]  Can I just say CBC does some of the best radio I have ever heard.
[32:51.540 --> 32:53.200]  Uh, we, we, we have a channel.
[32:53.500 --> 32:54.940]  We have the Sirius XM crap.
[32:55.460 --> 33:00.320]  Most of it is utter garbage, but the CBC radio one is, is just so incredible.
[33:00.720 --> 33:11.060]  Last night I heard, um, a segment on their daily show, as it happens, they were talking about 3.5 inch floppy drives and how there are, there are places that still use them.
[33:11.420 --> 33:13.520]  And, uh, there's talking to people about this.
[33:13.620 --> 33:14.620]  It's just so interesting.
[33:15.120 --> 33:22.000]  I, I, I, I've stayed in my car much longer than I need to for many occasions because something was on the radio that I had to hear the end of.
[33:22.580 --> 33:25.640]  So, uh, that's, that's the measure of good radio, I think.
[33:25.720 --> 33:26.980]  And they really, they really do it right.
[33:27.160 --> 33:27.600]  They really do.
[33:28.940 --> 33:30.060]  We have a, another call?
[33:30.480 --> 33:31.160]  Uh, yes.
[33:31.260 --> 33:34.260]  And I believe this, uh, might be from, uh, that part of the world.
[33:34.660 --> 33:35.880]  That part of the world.
[33:36.040 --> 33:36.360]  Canada.
[33:36.760 --> 33:37.200]  Indeed.
[33:37.600 --> 33:38.700]  Are you from Canada, caller?
[33:40.220 --> 33:41.180]  Uh, greetings.
[33:41.500 --> 33:42.660]  Kirby from Etomico calling.
[33:42.920 --> 33:43.140]  Wow.
[33:43.180 --> 33:45.300]  You must be some kind of, uh, soothsayer.
[33:45.640 --> 33:49.460]  Uh, Kyle, how did you know that, that this caller was coming?
[33:49.640 --> 33:53.800]  So now we have two people, uh, connected to us right now, uh, north of the border.
[33:55.800 --> 33:56.820]  Well represented, yeah.
[33:56.980 --> 34:00.200]  And, and, and three people out of the country and we're the minority now, Kyle.
[34:00.360 --> 34:02.460]  We're, we're the only ones in, in the United States.
[34:02.960 --> 34:03.580]  Safely, yeah.
[34:03.680 --> 34:03.860]  Wow.
[34:04.060 --> 34:05.100]  So, uh, Kirby, how you been?
[34:06.780 --> 34:07.640]  I'm doing great.
[34:07.800 --> 34:11.860]  Greetings, Mitch, um, Kyle, Emmanuel, and Greg.
[34:12.700 --> 34:14.880]  Yeah, we've all met in person now, so that's cool.
[34:16.440 --> 34:17.360]  That is cool.
[34:18.360 --> 34:20.420]  So what, what's, what's new up there in Ontario?
[34:20.420 --> 34:21.640]  Lots has happened.
[34:22.160 --> 34:23.060]  Lots has happened.
[34:23.300 --> 34:23.660]  Tell us.
[34:24.680 --> 34:36.940]  Um, last, uh, two days ago, we had a municipal election and, um, for the first time in, I don't know, like 23 years or something, there's no Ford in Toronto.
[34:37.620 --> 34:39.820]  Wait, you mean, you got rid of Ford?
[34:41.160 --> 34:42.240]  We didn't get rid of them.
[34:42.320 --> 34:43.760]  They all got jobs in the province.
[34:44.780 --> 34:48.780]  No, but I mean, he's no longer your, uh, whatever it was that he was?
[34:49.400 --> 35:04.860]  No, he's still that, but we had a municipal election and it's the first time when he hasn't had that Etobicoke North seat that, um, him and his family name have run for like 23 years because he got his, um, nephew a job, um, you know, in the state level,
[35:04.980 --> 35:05.480]  so to speak.
[35:05.480 --> 35:06.180]  I see.
[35:07.120 --> 35:07.680]  Okay.
[35:07.740 --> 35:09.040]  Well, I guess that's a good thing.
[35:09.320 --> 35:09.920]  That's a victory.
[35:11.300 --> 35:13.220]  It is a victory and get this.
[35:13.380 --> 35:13.460]  Okay.
[35:13.660 --> 35:26.020]  So Etobicoke Central, um, we defeated, we were the only, um, place in Toronto that defeated the incumbent by 2000 votes.
[35:26.140 --> 35:32.640]  We got rid of that bum and we got somebody new and, um, um, 2000 votes.
[35:32.760 --> 35:36.180]  So everybody that voted really thinks that they made a difference.
[35:36.380 --> 35:36.600]  Yeah.
[35:37.200 --> 35:39.620]  And, and I hope people in this country realize that too.
[35:39.700 --> 35:41.700]  They realize how much their vote matters.
[35:41.700 --> 35:47.240]  And if you're listening to the sound of my voice, make sure you vote this year because boy, it's, it's important.
[35:47.240 --> 35:52.200]  If you've been watching anything on television, yes, listen to Kirby here.
[35:52.760 --> 36:00.800]  Like nobody, the thing was everybody was so not interested that it was up to the people that were interested.
[36:01.060 --> 36:11.780]  And, and that isn't like when you pull somebody, you're supposed to be polling, like what people are going to vote because those people are going to vote.
[36:12.000 --> 36:13.060]  You know what I mean?
[36:13.240 --> 36:17.680]  It's not like that's the opinion of the people if they decide to vote.
[36:18.840 --> 36:19.400]  Correct.
[36:19.840 --> 36:20.000]  Yeah.
[36:20.000 --> 36:20.480]  Kind of thing.
[36:20.660 --> 36:26.280]  So I think that really, when it comes down to it, I think that's the bottom line these days is getting participation.
[36:27.380 --> 36:30.120]  It's not so much what the percentages are.
[36:30.240 --> 36:32.340]  It's how can you get people out to vote?
[36:32.760 --> 36:44.740]  And it also has to be, uh, relatively painless to vote in the first place, whether you're voting absentee, whether you're voting early, uh, whether you're voting locally or, or by mail, uh, it has to be something.
[36:44.900 --> 36:45.720]  Every state is different.
[36:45.900 --> 36:46.800]  Every province is different.
[36:46.840 --> 36:48.140]  You have to explain it.
[36:48.240 --> 37:00.020]  You have to make sure people are aware and you got to follow up and remind people, you know, remind people to get out there and exercise their, their civic duty because if you don't, someone else will do it for you and you probably won't like the results.
[37:01.720 --> 37:09.840]  But like, this is literally in, um, my part of, um, Toronto, a thousand households, you know, change, change, change the tide.
[37:10.040 --> 37:10.640]  That's incredible.
[37:11.040 --> 37:12.020]  And it's pretty cool.
[37:12.220 --> 37:12.400]  Yeah.
[37:12.680 --> 37:12.860]  Yeah.
[37:14.020 --> 37:14.360]  Wow.
[37:14.400 --> 37:15.780]  This, this just happened when yesterday?
[37:17.460 --> 37:20.920]  Uh, two days ago with the election and, um, it was quite a surprise.
[37:21.020 --> 37:31.420]  Like, I mean, we, we hope for the best, but we didn't expect, uh, the, um, outcome to be, uh, it was, it was close, but it was, the whole night, like we kind of had a lead.
[37:31.640 --> 37:33.220]  So it was, it was a fun night.
[37:33.220 --> 37:42.080]  Boy, I want to, I want to be able to say that in two weeks, I won't be able to say that boy, you know, we were, we were hopeful for the outcome, but we didn't expect it to be this good.
[37:42.320 --> 37:44.360]  I want to say that at least once.
[37:46.200 --> 37:47.020]  Well, you know what?
[37:47.100 --> 37:48.040]  People just have to care.
[37:48.560 --> 37:48.860]  Yeah.
[37:48.960 --> 37:49.500]  Take it really.
[37:49.620 --> 37:50.160]  Oh, it comes down.
[37:50.900 --> 37:51.260]  Totally.
[37:51.480 --> 37:51.640]  Yeah.
[37:52.040 --> 37:53.500]  Well, I know people care.
[37:53.500 --> 37:56.960]  It's just, uh, I think people are convinced that they, they don't matter.
[37:57.280 --> 37:58.960]  And that really has to be changed.
[37:58.960 --> 38:03.180]  You know, you have people out there telling you, uh, You know, don't even bother.
[38:03.380 --> 38:04.280]  It's not going to make a difference.
[38:04.580 --> 38:12.320]  Or in some cases, even being threatening to them, saying stay away from the polls or making up rules that don't pertain to them.
[38:12.760 --> 38:15.240]  It's something they have to get past.
[38:15.340 --> 38:15.900]  Greg, you had something.
[38:16.920 --> 38:20.800]  Well, people who don't vote are absolutely a major problem.
[38:21.180 --> 38:24.180]  There's also reasons, though, why people don't vote.
[38:24.380 --> 38:25.660]  It's often not that convenient.
[38:25.660 --> 38:26.700]  It's on a workday.
[38:28.020 --> 38:29.000]  There's issues.
[38:29.000 --> 38:30.720]  We know all about gerrymandering.
[38:30.900 --> 38:37.240]  We know all about voter suppression and polling places not being open and long lines and all this sort of thing.
[38:37.240 --> 38:41.320]  So, unfortunately, there are real barriers to voting.
[38:41.340 --> 38:43.120]  But apathy doesn't need to be a barrier.
[38:43.460 --> 38:50.280]  Like, you know, if you care, if you have an opinion, then why not make the effort to go out and have your voice heard?
[38:50.340 --> 38:51.360]  Because it can make a difference.
[38:51.360 --> 38:55.660]  And it's guaranteed to be easier than you think it is, if you think there are barriers.
[38:55.660 --> 39:00.980]  Just go to your state election website and look up your particular situation.
[39:00.980 --> 39:11.360]  If you're away at school, if you're bedridden, if, you know, you want to vote early, where your local polling place is, all sorts of things like that.
[39:11.800 --> 39:13.300]  Go ahead, Mitch, then Greg.
[39:14.600 --> 39:15.240]  Yeah.
[39:15.560 --> 39:22.380]  And even for us, refugees and immigrants living in other countries, we can vote by mail.
[39:22.380 --> 39:25.300]  And we can also vote by going to consulates.
[39:26.400 --> 39:27.160]  Oh, really?
[39:27.420 --> 39:28.480]  I didn't know this.
[39:28.640 --> 39:29.540]  How do you vote?
[39:30.240 --> 39:31.560]  I do it by mail.
[39:31.900 --> 39:32.220]  Okay.
[39:32.880 --> 39:35.200]  So they mail you in Germany?
[39:36.220 --> 39:38.280]  I have a friend.
[39:38.280 --> 39:41.800]  I kept my address with a friend in the U.S.
[39:41.800 --> 39:43.720]  So my voting goes there.
[39:44.100 --> 39:44.200]  Okay.
[39:44.740 --> 39:49.700]  Now that I'm a resident of Germany, I probably should just stop doing that.
[39:49.860 --> 39:51.860]  And then I can vote at the consulate.
[39:52.660 --> 39:52.880]  Interesting.
[39:53.000 --> 39:53.720]  I didn't know you could do that.
[39:54.560 --> 39:55.000]  Wow.
[39:55.000 --> 39:55.760]  Greg, go ahead.
[39:56.780 --> 39:57.900]  Yeah, actually, interesting.
[39:58.340 --> 40:00.280]  For me, it's somewhat of a different experience.
[40:00.440 --> 40:03.200]  So Mitch is, I think, California residency, right?
[40:03.860 --> 40:05.240]  And for me, it's Alaska.
[40:05.480 --> 40:06.980]  So as an Alaska...
[40:06.980 --> 40:07.500]  So here's the thing.
[40:07.500 --> 40:09.580]  I mean, once you are a U.S.
[40:10.020 --> 40:16.160]  citizen, whether you're born there, become naturalized or something else, you must pay taxes.
[40:16.160 --> 40:21.860]  You must file with the IRS every year on all income worldwide, legal or illegal.
[40:22.160 --> 40:31.660]  And because there once was a complaint about taxation without representation, as I recall from some history books, you do get to vote, even if you're not in the U.S.
[40:31.660 --> 40:35.900]  Now, you don't necessarily get to vote for, like, school board and local level elections.
[40:35.900 --> 40:39.180]  I think that depends probably on the local board and whatnot.
[40:39.440 --> 40:44.500]  But I have been able to vote in the presidential elections for the Senate and the House seats.
[40:44.500 --> 40:49.060]  I even get to vote for judges back where my residency was.
[40:49.260 --> 40:51.960]  And if at some point I move back to the U.S.
[40:51.980 --> 40:55.260]  and take up residency somewhere else, then that would be where I vote.
[40:55.520 --> 40:56.260]  But it does...
[40:56.260 --> 41:00.120]  The implementation of voting does vary state by state, as we know.
[41:00.120 --> 41:07.620]  I mean, that was like a really big deal in the 2020 election and probably will be a big deal again in two weeks, how different states do different voting.
[41:07.880 --> 41:17.020]  In my case, Mitch, I have to file paperwork every year to say that I'm an absentee this year.
[41:17.180 --> 41:25.200]  In other words, that I'm going to be either out of the country on election day or one of the election days, or that I'm just permanently out of the country.
[41:25.340 --> 41:26.920]  But every year I have to renew this.
[41:26.920 --> 41:30.720]  And then they email me a ballot package.
[41:30.720 --> 41:32.760]  And if I wanted to, I could get it by postal mail.
[41:32.900 --> 41:39.460]  But they email me a ballot package, and then I return it by either fax or postal mail, and it has to be postmarked in time.
[41:39.680 --> 41:43.160]  And by the way, Alaska is doing not instant runoff voting.
[41:43.260 --> 41:43.960]  They don't call it that.
[41:44.080 --> 41:45.420]  They call it ranked choice voting.
[41:45.580 --> 41:47.180]  Don't ask me what the difference is between the two.
[41:47.380 --> 41:51.840]  But they're doing a variation on winner take all as of last year.
[41:52.000 --> 41:53.300]  Yeah, Sarah Palin doesn't like that.
[41:53.560 --> 41:54.580]  It confuses her.
[41:54.580 --> 42:01.140]  Now, Kyle, you have, I think, the best system, because the state of Washington finds you wherever you are and mails you like six times a year.
[42:01.200 --> 42:01.620]  Don't exaggerate, please.
[42:01.920 --> 42:03.020]  But you're always voting.
[42:03.020 --> 42:04.480]  There's always some kind of an election.
[42:04.860 --> 42:05.000]  Stop.
[42:06.260 --> 42:06.980]  Oh, my God.
[42:07.080 --> 42:07.440]  It's true.
[42:07.700 --> 42:09.160]  No, it works the way it should.
[42:09.320 --> 42:09.720]  It does.
[42:09.720 --> 42:13.660]  I'm curious of what technology there is, too.
[42:14.280 --> 42:23.240]  Are there apps in various states to help people find polling places or to register or sign up or at least get reminders about deadlines?
[42:23.440 --> 42:36.000]  Because for some of these things, some of these processes, you do have to you have to arrange in advance or you have to maintain correspondence, make sure you're you're updated wherever you are.
[42:36.220 --> 42:44.540]  But for people that travel for a living, that are mobile and moving around, there are a lot of accommodations.
[42:44.980 --> 42:55.260]  And I encourage people just to find a way that works for them, like have a friend or trusted colleague help you out, sort it out the way you can.
[42:55.260 --> 43:03.400]  So in my instance, I've been absentee, my whole state is is absentee and has been they switched over.
[43:03.620 --> 43:07.480]  So there's no polling place to go to everyone votes by mail.
[43:07.640 --> 43:25.560]  And so to that end, I'm able to basically, I get a packet and then I keep up with some of the places that do some of the reviews of the candidates, so to speak.
[43:25.700 --> 43:27.980]  You can say you can say who you look at, because it's really awesome.
[43:28.100 --> 43:38.100]  I think people should well, I'm a big supporter of the stranger in Seattle and they they do the SECB, the election, even if you don't live there, it's worth reading just for the commentary.
[43:38.300 --> 43:39.000]  Well, it's hilarious.
[43:39.360 --> 43:45.320]  But beyond that, King County elections and other counties in Washington, they distribute a pamphlet.
[43:45.520 --> 43:50.160]  So essentially, you'll get a pamphlet from the county and there are statements from each candidate.
[43:50.400 --> 43:53.020]  They write personal statements and they talk about their platform.
[43:53.180 --> 43:54.260]  So you use that as a guide.
[43:54.660 --> 44:01.260]  And then newspaper endorsements, or publications, like I just mentioned, they put out reviews, they actually go and talk to people.
[44:01.680 --> 44:10.760]  I encourage you, you know, find the place you trust and get some of the opinions, find out what was said in some of those discussions.
[44:11.220 --> 44:16.660]  And that can help you as you're going through and filling in your bubbles, as it were.
[44:16.820 --> 44:17.560]  But do it.
[44:17.680 --> 44:19.180]  It doesn't take long.
[44:19.180 --> 44:26.520]  And if you have help, if you have the guides or stuff to go through, it really does not end up being a huge process.
[44:26.680 --> 44:32.160]  I was going to mention that one of the things I voted on was whether there should be ranked choice ballots.
[44:32.160 --> 44:37.760]  That's... That was one of the... It was put to the people, so to speak.
[44:37.940 --> 44:40.680]  And I was into it.
[44:40.820 --> 44:41.080]  Okay.
[44:41.680 --> 44:57.620]  I won't say how I voted, but... So I think the three of you, Kyle, citizen of Washington in New York, Mitch, citizen of California in Germany, and Greg, citizen of Alaska in Yukon, you all demonstrate how easy it is to actually vote in those situations.
[44:57.620 --> 45:05.040]  And of course, it's easy when you're not in a different place, when you're, you know, you're pulling places in your community.
[45:05.180 --> 45:10.580]  So there really are very few excuses that I can think of that should prevent somebody from voting.
[45:10.860 --> 45:13.460]  You have all kinds of early voting possibilities.
[45:13.460 --> 45:14.860]  You have absentee voting.
[45:15.180 --> 45:16.280]  Every state is different.
[45:16.500 --> 45:19.860]  All the deadlines are different, but the opportunity is certainly there.
[45:23.800 --> 45:24.900]  Kirby, anything else from you?
[45:25.000 --> 45:25.720]  Emmanuel, may I?
[45:25.980 --> 45:26.400]  Yeah, go ahead.
[45:28.300 --> 45:34.160]  I think, for me, there was a very low voter turnout in the provincial election and the municipal election.
[45:34.380 --> 45:40.660]  And everybody I talked to that, I guess, didn't vote, said, oh, I vote.
[45:40.940 --> 45:42.340]  Nothing ever changes.
[45:44.020 --> 45:47.980]  Well, you know, you're in Canada, and things are a bit more sane in Canada.
[45:48.160 --> 45:51.040]  You don't have, you know, the women's right to choose.
[45:51.220 --> 46:01.520]  You just had the prime minister within the last week just basically comment that, oh, by the way, it's illegal to sell or buy or transfer handguns.
[46:01.580 --> 46:02.160]  So there.
[46:02.660 --> 46:04.060]  Just like that, you know.
[46:04.280 --> 46:06.740]  I so envy the way people live up there.
[46:08.360 --> 46:17.420]  Well, I mean, there is a lot more intricacies to that than meets the eye, but I will accept that as a, you know, that's not a bad thing.
[46:17.620 --> 46:20.520]  It's not going to hurt anybody.
[46:20.600 --> 46:31.000]  And if anybody has a problem with it, they can, you know, raise their concern and say they have to have a gun for this reason or whatnot, I'm sure they can have it.
[46:31.700 --> 46:32.600]  I'm amazed.
[46:32.800 --> 46:40.040]  I think our shock and really what stands out about that is just it's so far so quickly and no one's excited about it.
[46:40.260 --> 46:54.160]  Here, it's like you bring it up about having any kind of incremental study or second look at a way we do one aspect of one type of one part of one type of weapon.
[46:54.380 --> 46:55.880]  It's like off limits.
[46:55.880 --> 46:57.740]  It's like it's changing.
[46:57.760 --> 46:58.680]  It's not the same.
[46:58.880 --> 47:01.740]  I don't think it's quite as excitable now.
[47:02.400 --> 47:11.780]  Um, uh, because, uh, as polarized as people want to make the issue, it's, it's, uh, an issue that spans political party.
[47:11.960 --> 47:13.700]  It's not as black and white.
[47:14.420 --> 47:31.840]  And really with all of the kinds of repeated attacks and, and, um, tumult in American society, it's, it's, it's past time to, to work on it as hard as it is for us, but it's astonishing to see a place like Canada just move so quickly.
[47:31.980 --> 47:44.380]  Well, you know, there are people who are upset about it, but mostly they're in sparsely populated States, kind of like a similar in the United States, except in our particular case, when people are upset in sparsely populated States, somehow they become the dominant voices.
[47:44.700 --> 47:46.500]  Somehow they're the ones that we have to follow.
[47:46.740 --> 47:54.960]  And you wind up with situations, uh, you know, where, well, Texas, not exactly a sparsely populated state, but, uh, this is the craziness of it.
[47:55.120 --> 47:56.240]  Mass shootings galore.
[47:56.680 --> 48:00.120]  And their response is to make it so you don't even have to have a license to have a gun.
[48:00.280 --> 48:02.900]  Now that's, that's the reality that we're living in.
[48:03.080 --> 48:08.880]  So, so yeah, you know, when Canada does something, it's, um, it's always a breath of fresh air.
[48:09.160 --> 48:22.300]  I contend it's, it's excited folks that are, that make that sound and seem more, uh, uh, like a, uh, more of a reaction than it really is to most people in this country.
[48:22.980 --> 48:24.900]  They're just very loud and passionate about it.
[48:24.960 --> 48:25.400]  Go ahead, Kirby.
[48:27.140 --> 48:34.540]  Well, I was just going to say that, uh, you know, uh, up here, people find other weapons to assault each other with.
[48:34.720 --> 48:36.740]  So of course, there's always going to be another weapon.
[48:36.880 --> 48:37.960]  It's not going to stop violence.
[48:38.420 --> 48:38.540]  Yeah.
[48:38.600 --> 48:40.240]  I mean, there's going to be violence.
[48:40.360 --> 48:40.680]  Absolutely.
[48:40.940 --> 48:47.100]  But, uh, you don't have to make it so damn easy, you know, or, or your political opponents.
[48:47.560 --> 48:48.540]  I'm sorry, go ahead, Kirby.
[48:48.640 --> 48:48.720]  What?
[48:50.260 --> 48:52.520]  Oh, it's just that it's like so damn easy.
[48:52.780 --> 49:00.140]  So, uh, yeah, it's not only can you kill somebody or shoot somebody or maim somebody, anybody that just kind of finds it can.
[49:00.840 --> 49:06.940]  It's, it's, it's one of the things that, um, it's just such a game changer in the hands of almost anybody.
[49:07.320 --> 49:13.740]  Well, the, the, the mass shooting that happened beyond the, the, the mass shooting at a school in St. Louis, uh, which was a couple of days ago.
[49:13.940 --> 49:22.940]  Uh, that particular case, the, the person, um, uh, who did this was suspected of having mental issues.
[49:23.060 --> 49:24.020]  There was a gun in the house.
[49:24.200 --> 49:27.260]  They called the cops to get the gun out of the house.
[49:27.380 --> 49:31.720]  The gun was taken out of the house, given to somebody who was a relative.
[49:32.000 --> 49:34.340]  And the guy went and got the gun from the relative.
[49:34.520 --> 49:35.620]  These things don't work.
[49:36.040 --> 49:38.600]  You know, guns are the problem.
[49:38.760 --> 49:39.540]  They are the issue.
[49:39.720 --> 49:43.320]  And, and there's too damn many of them and they're too easy to get your hands on.
[49:43.480 --> 49:46.440]  And in this particular case, I don't even know if a law was broken.
[49:46.640 --> 49:49.680]  I don't think that was, this is how the system is designed to operate.
[49:49.680 --> 49:54.680]  And it's just, it's, it's, it's so ridiculously stupid and we don't seem to ever learn.
[49:54.920 --> 49:56.740]  So congrats on learning up there.
[49:56.900 --> 49:59.320]  Um, Canadian fun fact.
[49:59.580 --> 49:59.880]  Yeah.
[50:00.240 --> 50:07.660]  Um, I went to, I went to school with the, um, federal minister that declared the, um, guns are banned.
[50:09.420 --> 50:09.860]  Okay.
[50:10.040 --> 50:10.920]  That's, that's something.
[50:12.280 --> 50:18.580]  Yeah, no, it was just, yeah, I went to grade school, grade school with the guy and, uh, now he's the federal minister of public safety.
[50:18.760 --> 50:20.400]  So I went to school with Kevin James.
[50:21.840 --> 50:23.060]  Well, not at the same time.
[50:23.240 --> 50:23.420]  Yeah.
[50:23.520 --> 50:24.840]  Well, he, he lived in my neighborhood.
[50:25.020 --> 50:25.140]  Yeah.
[50:25.240 --> 50:28.600]  I didn't know that until a long time afterwards, but yeah.
[50:29.180 --> 50:30.960]  Um, I mean, why would I know it then?
[50:31.040 --> 50:32.920]  Cause he wasn't, he wasn't famous then.
[50:34.620 --> 50:35.380]  Well, you win.
[50:35.640 --> 50:35.840]  Yeah.
[50:36.300 --> 50:36.900]  Uh, go ahead, Greg.
[50:37.020 --> 50:38.000]  And then we're going to move on to another call.
[50:39.640 --> 50:40.000]  Yeah.
[50:40.080 --> 50:51.880]  Just very briefly, uh, uh, the role of money in politics in Canada is much less role of money in politics in the U S and that I'd say that's probably the single biggest, uh, cause of some of these differences.
[50:52.400 --> 50:54.860]  And also I went to school with Anthony Scarabucci.
[50:56.140 --> 50:56.520]  Okay.
[50:56.800 --> 50:57.140]  All right.
[50:57.300 --> 50:58.700]  So Mitch, who did you go to school with?
[51:02.670 --> 51:06.590]  Fred, Fred, just Fred.
[51:07.310 --> 51:07.690]  Yeah.
[51:07.990 --> 51:08.250]  Okay.
[51:09.390 --> 51:09.790]  Uh-huh.
[51:09.890 --> 51:11.010]  Kyle, anybody you want a name?
[51:11.370 --> 51:13.410]  No, I went to school.
[51:13.510 --> 51:14.190]  Some cool people.
[51:14.370 --> 51:15.010]  Yeah, I'm sure you did.
[51:15.110 --> 51:15.930]  They're all really cool.
[51:15.950 --> 51:26.510]  I had a fascinating academic career, but they're not like people I would drop, you know, that, that, that anyone would know necessarily that I could think of.
[51:26.670 --> 51:27.750]  And, you know, so on.
[51:27.750 --> 51:28.450]  Maybe you need to check in.
[51:28.530 --> 51:30.010]  Maybe they've gone on to great things.
[51:30.150 --> 51:33.250]  I'm afraid to, uh, for about half of them.
[51:33.590 --> 51:35.810]  And someone that may have gone on to do horrible things.
[51:36.010 --> 51:36.590]  Oh, they've gone on.
[51:36.590 --> 51:37.110]  I'm sure.
[51:37.310 --> 51:38.670]  I'm sure a lot of them have.
[51:39.130 --> 51:40.030]  Good on them.
[51:40.230 --> 51:41.270]  I'm here doing this.
[51:41.650 --> 51:41.990]  Let's be frank here.
[51:42.250 --> 51:45.350]  Uh, Kyle is the most famous person ever to come out of his school.
[51:45.630 --> 51:46.310]  It's just the way it is.
[51:46.390 --> 51:47.390]  I didn't say that.
[51:47.570 --> 51:53.570]  I'm not, I'm, I'm just saying I'm here doing this and I'm just as happy to be, you know, around still.
[51:53.870 --> 51:54.430]  Think about it.
[51:54.450 --> 51:56.430]  Somebody went to school with Jeffrey Dahmer, you know?
[51:56.530 --> 51:57.950]  So there's, there's that.
[51:58.110 --> 51:58.350]  Yeah.
[51:59.050 --> 51:59.410]  Yeah.
[51:59.410 --> 52:00.210]  I wonder if people, yeah.
[52:01.010 --> 52:01.370]  Yeah.
[52:01.470 --> 52:03.890]  Some, some names you just, you're like, yeah, I do.
[52:03.950 --> 52:06.530]  I don't want to, I don't want to talk about.
[52:06.750 --> 52:07.790]  I don't know how we got into this.
[52:07.850 --> 52:09.570]  How do we get into this particular subject?
[52:10.190 --> 52:11.510]  Kirby, great hearing from you.
[52:11.650 --> 52:15.250]  And, um, um, hopefully we'll hear from you again next time we're on the air, whenever that is.
[52:16.790 --> 52:17.150]  Okay.
[52:17.270 --> 52:18.310]  Uh, quick shout out.
[52:18.570 --> 52:19.010]  Go ahead.
[52:19.630 --> 52:28.370]  Uh, um, uh, Audrey, she's been doing great, uh, with her math and science and French and keep up the good work.
[52:28.810 --> 52:29.170]  Awesome.
[52:29.610 --> 52:30.170]  Congrats, Audrey.
[52:31.750 --> 52:32.230]  All right.
[52:32.290 --> 52:33.290]  We'll talk to you again soon.
[52:33.410 --> 52:34.250]  And take care, everybody.
[52:34.390 --> 52:35.970]  I hope you have a, yeah, good, good time.
[52:36.170 --> 52:36.490]  All right.
[52:36.790 --> 52:37.090]  Be well.
[52:38.030 --> 52:42.430]  You know, next time we're on the air, it might be, it might be after, uh, uh, election.
[52:42.530 --> 52:44.210]  Was that the delay that you had, Greg?
[52:44.990 --> 52:47.470]  You said, bye, Kirby, about 10 seconds after he left.
[52:47.670 --> 52:48.410]  Leave his delay.
[52:48.510 --> 52:49.810]  I'm telling you, I'm watching the ping.
[52:50.030 --> 52:51.650]  The ping is just getting longer and longer.
[52:51.770 --> 52:51.870]  Okay.
[52:51.910 --> 52:56.930]  We got, we got to do an experiment, but, um, uh, next time we're on the air, we'd might be, it might be after election day.
[52:57.110 --> 52:59.550]  So this might be the last time we sound so chipper.
[52:59.890 --> 53:01.110]  Give that phone number out again.
[53:01.610 --> 53:03.890]  Oh, wait, I want, I want to see how, how long Greg's delay is.
[53:03.890 --> 53:10.270]  So Greg, I'm going to count down, uh, from, from three and I want you to say one, the same time you think I'm going to say one.
[53:10.590 --> 53:11.210]  How does that sound?
[53:13.350 --> 53:13.790]  Okay.
[53:14.030 --> 53:14.370]  Here we go.
[53:15.030 --> 53:18.690]  Three, two, one.
[53:18.690 --> 53:19.130]  One.
[53:19.430 --> 53:19.750]  Wow.
[53:19.850 --> 53:20.510]  That is a delay.
[53:20.810 --> 53:21.690]  That is a delay.
[53:21.970 --> 53:22.730]  One second.
[53:23.170 --> 53:23.290]  Huh?
[53:23.850 --> 53:24.750]  How about you, Mitch?
[53:24.870 --> 53:25.010]  Okay.
[53:25.270 --> 53:25.930]  Let's, let's try.
[53:26.170 --> 53:26.390]  You ready?
[53:27.410 --> 53:27.870]  All right.
[53:28.530 --> 53:31.310]  Three, two, one.
[53:31.530 --> 53:31.870]  One.
[53:32.150 --> 53:33.290]  Much better in Germany.
[53:33.430 --> 53:33.830]  All right.
[53:34.230 --> 53:34.890]  Kyle, how about you?
[53:36.870 --> 53:37.190]  What?
[53:37.550 --> 53:39.510]  You're in the same room, but there's still a delay.
[53:41.490 --> 53:41.910]  All right.
[53:42.730 --> 53:43.990]  We take this phone call.
[53:44.270 --> 53:44.270]  Yeah.
[53:44.270 --> 53:44.330]  What?
[53:45.130 --> 53:46.270]  Are you smoking?
[53:46.630 --> 53:46.830]  No.
[53:46.950 --> 53:47.930]  No, there's no smoking in the studio.
[53:47.950 --> 53:48.630]  No, I'm engineering.
[53:48.870 --> 53:49.330]  Been over this.
[53:49.510 --> 53:53.030]  No, I was, uh, I was, I tried to pick up this call and I think I got it this time.
[53:53.150 --> 53:53.950]  There was another call.
[53:54.110 --> 53:54.890]  This is the second time I tried.
[53:55.170 --> 53:56.490]  They'll pick up two calls at once.
[53:56.890 --> 53:58.050]  Actually, this may not be them.
[53:58.810 --> 53:59.950]  No, this might be them.
[54:00.390 --> 54:00.850]  Try this.
[54:01.030 --> 54:01.870]  I'm going to try this.
[54:01.970 --> 54:02.270]  All right.
[54:02.530 --> 54:03.690]  Uh, good.
[54:03.690 --> 54:03.950]  Good evening.
[54:04.130 --> 54:05.070]  You're on Off the Hook Overtime.
[54:06.690 --> 54:07.430]  Good evening, gang.
[54:07.610 --> 54:08.690]  This is Tim in Connecticut.
[54:09.070 --> 54:09.690]  Tim in Connecticut.
[54:09.690 --> 54:10.230]  How you been?
[54:11.350 --> 54:12.050]  Not too bad.
[54:12.170 --> 54:12.730]  Not too bad.
[54:13.190 --> 54:15.510]  Hey, I was, uh, just to get in on the voting thing.
[54:15.510 --> 54:19.050]  I think Australia has the right idea with mandatory voting.
[54:19.250 --> 54:19.930]  Oh, yeah.
[54:20.790 --> 54:30.190]  They say that they consistently get between 90 and 95% of people of a turnout because they issue fines if you don't vote.
[54:30.790 --> 54:33.270]  You know, who would argue against that?
[54:33.410 --> 54:35.510]  You know, what's your reason for arguing against that?
[54:35.590 --> 54:39.190]  Because you can always, you can always vote for, uh, you know, none of the above.
[54:39.390 --> 54:40.290]  You can always say that.
[54:40.470 --> 54:46.870]  You can voice that opinion if that's what you believe, but just not participating at all, not having any voice.
[54:47.030 --> 54:48.350]  Who would be in favor of that?
[54:49.530 --> 54:49.930]  Yeah.
[54:49.930 --> 54:52.010]  I mean, I really don't see a problem with it.
[54:52.090 --> 54:56.230]  I mean, it's part of your, you pay taxes, you know, you want some representation.
[54:57.050 --> 54:58.350]  Yeah, absolutely.
[54:59.150 --> 55:00.250]  Uh, Mitch, did you have something to say on this?
[55:02.330 --> 55:04.570]  Yeah, just that there's several countries.
[55:04.570 --> 55:08.510]  I hang out with Belgians, like I said on, uh, earlier on the, on the radio show.
[55:08.710 --> 55:10.930]  Uh, it's, it's mandatory there too.
[55:11.350 --> 55:12.890]  And, uh, I have friends in Brazil.
[55:12.890 --> 55:13.950]  It's mandatory there.
[55:14.110 --> 55:18.430]  And even if you're out of the country, like I have friends from Brazil here, they go to the consulate.
[55:20.210 --> 55:20.690]  Wow.
[55:20.850 --> 55:21.990]  And, uh, didn't know that.
[55:22.830 --> 55:23.310]  Yeah.
[55:23.430 --> 55:25.490]  And, and you pay a fine in these places as well.
[55:25.550 --> 55:28.650]  It's a small fine, but still it encourages people to vote.
[55:28.670 --> 55:34.090]  And many people, they just turn in a blank ballot if they're totally not into it, but most people actually vote.
[55:35.050 --> 55:37.470]  It's kind of like the census in a way, isn't it?
[55:39.170 --> 55:39.650]  Yeah.
[55:39.790 --> 55:48.130]  Although the census, yeah, census has, uh, there's some people that don't want the government to necessarily know where they are.
[55:48.930 --> 55:49.290]  Yeah.
[55:49.390 --> 55:56.550]  But I mean, as long as something can get to you somehow, uh, you know, you have to pay your taxes, you have to be on a jury occasionally or at least show up.
[55:56.830 --> 56:06.810]  Uh, so they need a way of getting, it doesn't have to be your actual home address, but as long as they can get to you and they know that you're a different person than someone else, then, um, that should be sufficient.
[56:08.070 --> 56:08.430]  Yeah.
[56:09.030 --> 56:11.170]  Well, that was my input for the evening.
[56:11.570 --> 56:13.790]  I'll get off the line and let you get, take another call.
[56:13.950 --> 56:14.150]  Okay.
[56:14.210 --> 56:14.930]  Well, good hearing from you.
[56:16.090 --> 56:16.670]  Have a good one guys.
[56:16.850 --> 56:17.150]  Take care.
[56:18.870 --> 56:19.190]  Wow.
[56:19.590 --> 56:20.250]  Mandatory voting.
[56:20.590 --> 56:21.370]  Kind of like that idea.
[56:21.710 --> 56:24.830]  And you know, for something like that, you have to make it easy for people to vote.
[56:25.230 --> 56:26.890]  So, you know, it seems like a win-win.
[56:28.210 --> 56:30.150]  And you have to have the systems in place.
[56:30.370 --> 56:30.450]  Yeah.
[56:30.530 --> 56:35.130]  You're not going to fool around with, oh, it's, we got this type or it's not working this way.
[56:35.290 --> 56:37.130]  You know, there's an expectation.
[56:37.210 --> 56:38.810]  You're requiring people to show up.
[56:38.910 --> 56:39.950]  You got to have stuff work.
[56:39.950 --> 56:49.050]  We can't even get past the, uh, Tuesday election day thing, which is all based on farmers, you know, with their crops and the, you know, it's, it's, it's fall.
[56:49.170 --> 56:53.530]  So it takes them this long to leave on a, on a weekend to get to the polling place.
[56:53.890 --> 56:57.790]  And so that's why it's on a Tuesday, the first Tuesday in, in, in November.
[56:58.450 --> 57:00.250]  Uh, it's just so silly.
[57:00.350 --> 57:02.470]  Why can't we have it on a Sunday like the rest of the world?
[57:02.470 --> 57:07.690]  You know, at least we have early voting in many places where people can do things like that.
[57:08.250 --> 57:09.150]  Do we have another call?
[57:09.410 --> 57:09.930]  All right.
[57:10.250 --> 57:10.850]  And good evening.
[57:11.050 --> 57:11.950]  You're on off the hook.
[57:12.450 --> 57:14.190]  Can you, it's, it's rebel.
[57:14.310 --> 57:15.430]  Doesn't let me even finish the sentence.
[57:15.690 --> 57:17.170]  I'm going to do the greeting rebel.
[57:17.350 --> 57:17.570]  All right.
[57:17.630 --> 57:18.230]  Let me do the greeting.
[57:18.410 --> 57:18.470]  Okay.
[57:18.710 --> 57:19.230]  Good evening.
[57:19.250 --> 57:21.550]  And welcome to off the hook overtime.
[57:21.610 --> 57:23.610]  You are now on the air caller.
[57:24.190 --> 57:26.850]  Please address us in a pleasant tone of voice.
[57:27.790 --> 57:28.230]  Yes.
[57:28.370 --> 57:30.390]  Even though we're not on the air, we're online.
[57:30.650 --> 57:31.970]  We're on the virtual air.
[57:31.970 --> 57:33.030]  I air quoted air.
[57:35.190 --> 57:35.670]  Anyway.
[57:35.950 --> 57:41.910]  Um, uh, by the way, uh, the, uh, election day is November 1st this year.
[57:42.030 --> 57:42.610]  No, it's not.
[57:43.090 --> 57:44.390]  How dare you lie.
[57:44.690 --> 57:45.630]  It's not November 1st.
[57:45.710 --> 57:46.530]  It's November 8th.
[57:46.570 --> 57:47.190]  That's missing.
[57:47.330 --> 57:47.430]  Yeah.
[57:47.690 --> 57:48.310]  Oh, it's November 8th.
[57:48.370 --> 57:48.570]  Wow.
[57:48.670 --> 57:49.130]  Misinformation.
[57:49.150 --> 57:51.610]  You're going to get Google to ban us again.
[57:51.730 --> 57:52.850]  Alphabet is going to end.
[57:52.850 --> 57:54.030]  I mean, come on.
[57:54.530 --> 57:55.010]  Overtime.
[57:55.290 --> 57:55.490]  Yeah.
[57:55.970 --> 58:03.210]  Well, speaking of misinformation, uh, you know, um, it was, you're talking, you're talking about, uh, um, the Infowars thing.
[58:03.550 --> 58:10.930]  Uh, the, I think their ads are pulling out of the, the, their, their advertisers are, uh, ban, are boycotting.
[58:11.570 --> 58:13.390]  Um, yeah.
[58:13.390 --> 58:15.150]  I wonder what concerned them.
[58:16.390 --> 58:27.190]  Well, I mean, well, the teachers at that school in Connecticut, they, you know, they, I remember on a news report, they said that it was like Pearl Harbor, but it was like Pearl Harbor.
[58:27.890 --> 58:28.610]  In what way?
[58:28.650 --> 58:33.650]  No, that's what a teacher, that's what the teachers say that, that, that, that, that, that, oh yeah, of course.
[58:34.010 --> 58:34.330]  Yeah.
[58:34.330 --> 58:34.450]  Yeah.
[58:34.530 --> 58:35.870]  I've heard awful stuff too.
[58:36.030 --> 58:38.130]  Uh, but it's interesting.
[58:39.190 --> 58:43.390]  That's a step in, in that it took them that long.
[58:43.390 --> 58:51.610]  I mean, for, for those advertisers in particular, they're not probably, um, ones everybody's familiar with, but that they have stuck with them so long.
[58:52.130 --> 58:57.310]  And then they're finally, uh, abandoning his brand as it were.
[58:57.710 --> 58:58.930]  That is something.
[58:58.930 --> 59:05.810]  It's interesting though, that it took what this actual action for them to say, okay, this is enough.
[59:05.970 --> 59:08.030]  Like, it's not that big of them.
[59:10.350 --> 59:10.830]  Hmm.
[59:11.430 --> 59:12.470]  Let's see what else.
[59:13.190 --> 59:13.850]  Um, wow.
[59:13.930 --> 59:15.770]  Rebel, you ran out of things to say quickly this week.
[59:16.610 --> 59:17.070]  Thank you.
[59:17.430 --> 59:27.550]  Well, um, you know, the, um, there, um, I think it should be, I think we'll make her a good, uh, either movie or a private film or, or video or whatever.
[59:27.770 --> 59:32.450]  You know, like when a stranger calls, you know, that's a, I think that was a movie in the seventies or eight.
[59:32.470 --> 59:35.250]  It was, I think it was in the fifties, but maybe it was the seventies.
[59:35.310 --> 59:35.550]  I don't know.
[59:35.670 --> 59:43.090]  I think it was the seventies, but I, I've heard the movie, but they should have, we should We have a home movie called When a Scammer Calls.
[59:43.090 --> 59:44.030]  Oh, I like this.
[59:45.670 --> 59:47.490]  Yeah, I think we should do that.
[59:48.190 --> 59:49.750]  Okay, let's do that.
[59:49.750 --> 59:50.630]  When a Scammer Calls.
[59:51.030 --> 59:57.570]  If you want to go to my YouTube page, Richard Conti, and view, you know, I call scammers.
[59:57.730 --> 01:00:00.810]  I haven't been doing it lately, but, you know, I get a lot of calls.
[01:00:00.970 --> 01:00:11.570]  And they come from 800 numbers and, you know, 917 numbers and numbers that are like, you know, either not existent or whatever, but they keep numbers.
[01:00:11.870 --> 01:00:24.850]  I guess, like the college, since the college tuition, the college loan forgiveness was announced, I've been getting a lot of people who don't have any college loans or grants or anything.
[01:00:25.010 --> 01:00:28.650]  I've got to get calls from these places that say, you know, would you like to...
[01:00:28.650 --> 01:00:29.330]  Oh, you know what?
[01:00:29.370 --> 01:00:31.170]  I could three-way you.
[01:00:31.370 --> 01:00:32.490]  No, don't do that.
[01:00:32.610 --> 01:00:34.390]  There's no call for that.
[01:00:35.050 --> 01:00:37.070]  But all you have to do is not pick up the damn phone.
[01:00:37.950 --> 01:00:39.290]  Just pick up from people you know.
[01:00:40.710 --> 01:00:41.630]  Well, no, I do.
[01:00:41.770 --> 01:00:46.070]  And I just, you know, kind of like, you know, like play with them saying, hello, this is the operator.
[01:00:46.130 --> 01:00:47.430]  I have a collect call.
[01:00:48.310 --> 01:00:49.910]  See, he's making a study of it.
[01:00:50.170 --> 01:00:58.410]  So he, because he has this abundance, he's turning it into something he can refine into an assessment of these types of callers.
[01:00:58.490 --> 01:00:59.650]  That's a great idea for a story.
[01:00:59.650 --> 01:01:04.590]  If you're looking for more for your research, just give out your phone number, and I'm sure people can sign you up for all kinds of things.
[01:01:05.410 --> 01:01:06.050]  Wait, well...
[01:01:06.050 --> 01:01:06.270]  Right.
[01:01:06.450 --> 01:01:07.070]  Is that what he wants?
[01:01:07.190 --> 01:01:08.630]  I think he's more to the incidental ones.
[01:01:08.830 --> 01:01:09.050]  Uh-huh.
[01:01:09.930 --> 01:01:12.610]  Well, we can probably give out his number, because I'm sure we have it somewhere.
[01:01:13.770 --> 01:01:20.870]  No, because if you call it, then, you know, it's going to go to, like, you know, the number you repeat is not in service.
[01:01:21.090 --> 01:01:21.330]  Mm-hmm.
[01:01:21.870 --> 01:01:23.150]  Yeah, but we're not fooled by that.
[01:01:24.770 --> 01:01:25.090]  No.
[01:01:26.370 --> 01:01:29.850]  Oh, by the way, when a stranger calls, you were right, 1979.
[01:01:31.490 --> 01:01:32.950]  And here's the synopsis.
[01:01:33.090 --> 01:01:41.150]  During an evening of babysitting, high school student Jill Johnson is terrorized by a caller who keeps asking, have you checked the children lately?
[01:01:41.250 --> 01:01:45.230]  And when she calls the police, they inform her that the calls are coming from...
[01:01:46.250 --> 01:01:47.390]  Come on, say it.
[01:01:48.010 --> 01:01:48.810]  A payphone?
[01:01:49.050 --> 01:01:50.490]  Oh, for God's sake, Rebel, really?
[01:01:50.730 --> 01:01:51.350]  Inside the house.
[01:01:51.450 --> 01:01:52.410]  Inside the house, thank you.
[01:01:53.310 --> 01:01:55.810]  Come on, it's one of the most famous things ever to say.
[01:01:56.070 --> 01:01:57.210]  The calls are coming from...
[01:01:57.210 --> 01:01:59.510]  Well, there's a lot from this film that I didn't realize.
[01:01:59.710 --> 01:02:01.510]  That's where that phrase comes from.
[01:02:01.570 --> 01:02:02.890]  The calls are coming from inside the house.
[01:02:02.990 --> 01:02:04.350]  And also, have you checked the children lately?
[01:02:04.890 --> 01:02:07.710]  Which I never heard before that film came out.
[01:02:08.430 --> 01:02:11.050]  But that's not a stranger, then, if it's coming from inside the house?
[01:02:11.170 --> 01:02:13.390]  Well, it could be a stranger inside your house.
[01:02:13.470 --> 01:02:15.690]  I mean, what would you call a person who broke in and you don't know?
[01:02:16.270 --> 01:02:17.970]  I guess an intruder, I guess.
[01:02:18.070 --> 01:02:18.910]  I don't know, but...
[01:02:18.910 --> 01:02:20.110]  When an intruder calls?
[01:02:20.610 --> 01:02:23.550]  But they're... that doesn't make... that's a silly title.
[01:02:23.930 --> 01:02:24.530]  I mean, come on.
[01:02:25.230 --> 01:02:30.270]  First of all, okay, no, the point is you don't know they're in the house, so they're a stranger from the outset, okay?
[01:02:30.610 --> 01:02:33.690]  Then you find out that the stranger is an intruder.
[01:02:33.870 --> 01:02:36.810]  Okay, I guess you could rename the film at that point, but who does that?
[01:02:37.950 --> 01:02:39.810]  Really, Rebel, some of the things you suggest.
[01:02:40.010 --> 01:02:41.090]  I just don't know.
[01:02:41.090 --> 01:02:55.750]  Well, what... I remember back in the 70s, I used to make a prank call to this person, this woman, and she would keep me on the line, like, saying, hey, I was home alone at the time.
[01:02:56.190 --> 01:02:57.450]  I was, like, maybe 10 years old.
[01:02:57.830 --> 01:03:00.570]  She said, well, are your parents away?
[01:03:00.730 --> 01:03:01.330]  Or where did they go?
[01:03:01.430 --> 01:03:02.390]  Did your mother go shopping?
[01:03:02.710 --> 01:03:04.490]  Or, you know, trying to make a conversation with me.
[01:03:04.730 --> 01:03:06.530]  You know, I'm on the phone with her for, like, three minutes.
[01:03:06.670 --> 01:03:07.270]  I hang up.
[01:03:07.350 --> 01:03:08.230]  We have two lines.
[01:03:08.230 --> 01:03:15.610]  One line, which is where I called from, which is the phone on the desk, and then there's another phone in the kitchen that has another line.
[01:03:16.030 --> 01:03:16.930]  Total separate line.
[01:03:17.070 --> 01:03:20.730]  She called on the kitchen phone, which is a totally separate line.
[01:03:21.350 --> 01:03:24.270]  And then she said, this is a police station.
[01:03:25.690 --> 01:03:27.590]  Richard is making prank calls.
[01:03:28.210 --> 01:03:29.970]  Are you ever going to call Mrs. Klassner again?
[01:03:30.050 --> 01:03:31.970]  I remember I got so scared at that point.
[01:03:32.250 --> 01:03:33.170]  How did she know my name?
[01:03:33.250 --> 01:03:34.070]  How did she know the other number?
[01:03:34.070 --> 01:03:35.630]  Because she knew who you were.
[01:03:35.870 --> 01:03:38.270]  I don't know how she knew who you were, but it's obvious she knew who you were.
[01:03:38.350 --> 01:03:39.230]  She knew your other phone numbers.
[01:03:39.310 --> 01:03:40.130]  She knew your first name.
[01:03:40.370 --> 01:03:42.490]  And she knew that you were the person who would do this.
[01:03:42.730 --> 01:03:43.810]  And I think we all know that.
[01:03:43.930 --> 01:03:44.930]  The genesis of Rebel.
[01:03:45.130 --> 01:03:47.870]  Has this been something that's been hanging over your head since you were 10 years old?
[01:03:49.430 --> 01:03:51.150]  Actually, it has.
[01:03:51.230 --> 01:03:52.330]  It has, like, intrigued me.
[01:03:52.490 --> 01:03:55.470]  Like, how do they... Like, three minutes... Bernie S.
[01:03:55.570 --> 01:03:56.590]  would know something like this.
[01:03:58.530 --> 01:03:58.850]  Look...
[01:03:58.850 --> 01:04:03.990]  If you called me, all right, and I heard your voice, I would know it was you no matter what number you used.
[01:04:04.070 --> 01:04:05.330]  I didn't even know this person.
[01:04:05.570 --> 01:04:06.450]  But they knew you.
[01:04:07.170 --> 01:04:09.590]  They... Your reputation precedes itself.
[01:04:09.990 --> 01:04:11.110]  People know you.
[01:04:11.690 --> 01:04:11.790]  All right?
[01:04:11.870 --> 01:04:13.410]  Even at 10, people knew you.
[01:04:17.110 --> 01:04:18.210]  The entire neighborhood.
[01:04:18.670 --> 01:04:22.830]  People probably exchanged all kinds of notes on you back then because...
[01:04:22.830 --> 01:04:26.250]  The person I found in the phone book, that's how I picked my phone calls.
[01:04:26.430 --> 01:04:30.530]  The person I picked in the phone book, who had the same last name as one, a friend of mine's name.
[01:04:30.910 --> 01:04:32.930]  So, maybe she called my friend.
[01:04:33.010 --> 01:04:33.370]  I don't know.
[01:04:33.690 --> 01:04:33.910]  I don't know.
[01:04:34.010 --> 01:04:35.570]  What year was this?
[01:04:36.930 --> 01:04:38.110]  1978 or 79.
[01:04:38.670 --> 01:04:38.770]  Okay.
[01:04:38.830 --> 01:04:39.810]  So, that's pre-caller ID.
[01:04:39.990 --> 01:04:40.950]  So, they didn't have caller ID.
[01:04:41.730 --> 01:04:42.070]  Right.
[01:04:43.390 --> 01:04:44.310]  Well, you know...
[01:04:44.310 --> 01:04:50.810]  It was where you had to stay on the line, like, keep the person on the line for at least three minutes in order for it to trace or something.
[01:04:51.090 --> 01:04:52.310]  I heard something like that.
[01:04:53.150 --> 01:04:54.630]  I'm sure there's more to the story.
[01:04:57.130 --> 01:05:00.230]  Greg or Mitch, did either of you have something to add?
[01:05:00.490 --> 01:05:01.610]  Somebody was raising their hands.
[01:05:01.850 --> 01:05:03.250]  Were they around in those days?
[01:05:05.130 --> 01:05:05.770]  Go ahead, Greg.
[01:05:07.330 --> 01:05:07.730]  Yeah.
[01:05:08.250 --> 01:05:08.970]  Yeah, we were.
[01:05:09.150 --> 01:05:11.810]  So, I was going to comment on...
[01:05:11.810 --> 01:05:20.050]  We've talked on the radio show before about how a lot of people don't want to respond to email or use email, about how a lot of people now don't pick up the phone.
[01:05:20.190 --> 01:05:21.430]  And we're hearing about why.
[01:05:21.590 --> 01:05:25.330]  It's like you don't know who's there, and the chances are pretty good that it's just crap.
[01:05:25.890 --> 01:05:34.150]  And so, you end up with platforms like Facebook offering Messenger, where you're only getting messages from people that are on your contact list, if that's your settings.
[01:05:35.250 --> 01:05:39.470]  And it's easy to understand, you know, that as someone that's...
[01:05:39.470 --> 01:05:44.570]  As someone that's considering that if I were younger, and someone was saying, okay, we have all these ways to communicate.
[01:05:44.570 --> 01:05:46.010]  We have email and cell phone.
[01:05:46.010 --> 01:05:51.450]  And I'm like, well, that's just a bunch of crap that's coming my way that I don't want to even pick up the phone.
[01:05:51.850 --> 01:05:59.510]  Versus in 1978, when the phone rings, of course you're going to pick it up, because, you know, it could be someone you want to talk to, and that's the only way you talk to them.
[01:06:00.150 --> 01:06:02.430]  So, I do understand, I think, some of that rationale.
[01:06:02.750 --> 01:06:06.630]  By the way, I'm living now with a 26-year-old woman in the house.
[01:06:06.630 --> 01:06:08.930]  We have someone that's staying with us to help out with the dogs.
[01:06:09.310 --> 01:06:12.010]  And her method of communication is Facebook Messenger.
[01:06:12.010 --> 01:06:22.870]  And when it's time to communicate about, shall we get together and take care of the dogs or something, my wife is sending her a Facebook message from the first floor to the lower floor where the apartment is.
[01:06:22.950 --> 01:06:27.870]  And that's the preferred communication, as opposed to even wandering downstairs.
[01:06:28.290 --> 01:06:30.090]  What happened to bellowing down the stairs?
[01:06:30.330 --> 01:06:31.310]  People don't do that anymore?
[01:06:32.730 --> 01:06:34.110]  Well, that's what I would...
[01:06:34.110 --> 01:06:37.430]  I would just bump on the floor, you know, and say, yeah, come on up.
[01:06:37.650 --> 01:06:37.910]  Uh-huh.
[01:06:38.410 --> 01:06:38.810]  Absolutely.
[01:06:38.810 --> 01:06:43.670]  Or get a cordless phone so that you can answer the phone on, you know, if you're upstairs.
[01:06:44.750 --> 01:06:46.610]  Or get a Radio Shack intercom.
[01:06:48.130 --> 01:06:49.150]  Radio Shack intercom?
[01:06:49.330 --> 01:06:49.970]  I don't remember those.
[01:06:50.310 --> 01:06:51.070]  Well, like...
[01:06:51.070 --> 01:06:51.650]  Radio Shack...
[01:06:51.650 --> 01:06:51.830]  Oh.
[01:06:52.030 --> 01:06:52.270]  Yeah.
[01:06:52.450 --> 01:06:52.870]  That was with the cordless phone.
[01:06:52.990 --> 01:06:53.410]  Absolutely.
[01:06:53.570 --> 01:06:54.410]  Radio Shack intercoms.
[01:06:54.510 --> 01:06:54.950]  They were the best.
[01:06:55.630 --> 01:06:57.530]  Well, that's the difference between phones and email.
[01:06:57.670 --> 01:06:59.570]  And emails, you could, like, ignore and delete.
[01:06:59.790 --> 01:07:03.890]  Phone calls just ring and, you know, either pick it up or not pick it up.
[01:07:03.890 --> 01:07:12.490]  Or you could set up a pirate shortwave station and then have a shortwave radio downstairs so that you can transmit and the person can tune in and hear you.
[01:07:13.730 --> 01:07:14.370]  Actually, I don't know.
[01:07:14.490 --> 01:07:15.430]  Why does it have to be shortwave?
[01:07:15.490 --> 01:07:16.270]  I guess it could be FM.
[01:07:16.410 --> 01:07:17.310]  It doesn't have to be shortwave.
[01:07:17.430 --> 01:07:19.030]  But then anyone in the world could hear you as well.
[01:07:19.110 --> 01:07:19.570]  Go ahead, Mitch.
[01:07:19.610 --> 01:07:19.950]  You had something?
[01:07:20.270 --> 01:07:20.730]  I remember.
[01:07:20.990 --> 01:07:21.350]  I remember.
[01:07:33.890 --> 01:07:34.570]  With my brother.
[01:07:34.850 --> 01:07:38.970]  And I set up an intercom between the top bunk and the bottom bunk.
[01:07:39.470 --> 01:07:40.190]  That's perfect.
[01:07:40.290 --> 01:07:40.730]  That's cool.
[01:07:40.850 --> 01:07:43.170]  But you were right there in the same bunk bed.
[01:07:43.450 --> 01:07:44.770]  You really needed an intercom?
[01:07:45.870 --> 01:07:48.170]  Well, we were both geeks, you know.
[01:07:48.750 --> 01:07:50.190]  Well, this proves it for sure.
[01:07:51.730 --> 01:07:52.210]  Wow.
[01:07:52.510 --> 01:07:53.150]  That's amazing.
[01:07:53.450 --> 01:07:56.130]  The important thing is find a way that works.
[01:07:56.130 --> 01:08:09.730]  And it's so funny, like the idea that a phone call or a message on a system that is public, ostensibly, is suspicious.
[01:08:10.250 --> 01:08:33.770]  That's a new phenomena that really, unless it's a text that you understand, or unless it's a call you're anticipating because you scheduled it and arranged it in advance over some other form of communication, it's a very odd way that something that allowed you to be exceedingly accessible on the public telephone network,
[01:08:36.110 --> 01:08:46.610]  then it changes and transforms just in the basis of people suspecting that more often than not, people using that mode are really just solicitors.
[01:08:47.010 --> 01:08:49.430]  And it's sad in a way.
[01:08:50.050 --> 01:09:08.370]  And I liken it to what I was talking about with speech and certain platforms allowing certain things and others not, and then those splintering off, whereas you'd sign up for a platform and everybody would be on there, so you're accessible to people that you don't necessarily talk to or agree with.
[01:09:08.370 --> 01:09:25.150]  And now, of course, as they fragment and splinter in the same way, that, you know, maybe it's not a suspicious call, but it's a political confrontation that you don't want to be exposed to on this more or less, well, private community.
[01:09:25.650 --> 01:09:31.390]  We're experiencing similar things repeating, I guess, is the short version of what I'm noticing.
[01:09:33.550 --> 01:09:42.490]  And it's odd that what people end up using is sort of endlessly hybrid forms of all of it and sort of unifying it in their own ways.
[01:09:42.850 --> 01:09:45.530]  Rebel, we're going to allow you one more comment, then we're going to move on.
[01:09:46.430 --> 01:10:04.090]  I remember when I was back maybe 1980 or maybe 81 or something like that, the payphone in the shopping center where I usually, you know, go, which is right near me where I left, would ring, and it would ring, it rang, and I answered it, and the person said,
[01:10:04.390 --> 01:10:11.070]  Hello, you have won a prize, and, you know, they're from a radio station, and you've won a prize, and, oh, what's your address to send you a prize?
[01:10:11.070 --> 01:10:19.130]  And I was stupid enough to get my address, but nothing ever showed up or nothing, you know, maybe they could, maybe it was like a, you know, a scam of some sort.
[01:10:19.330 --> 01:10:20.190]  What kind of scam was that?
[01:10:20.350 --> 01:10:21.930]  You gave them your address and nothing happened?
[01:10:23.410 --> 01:10:25.470]  I don't believe anything happened, no.
[01:10:26.010 --> 01:10:27.950]  And those are the days you could call a payphone.
[01:10:28.170 --> 01:10:28.970]  You can't do that anymore.
[01:10:29.090 --> 01:10:39.770]  It's just so weird that these technology evolutions become known for how they were abused more than the positive attributes of them.
[01:10:39.770 --> 01:10:57.850]  And as we moved from, like, Web 2.0, or whatever these platforms are, to even more intensely advanced systems, what kinds of abuse will they be characterized or known for?
[01:10:58.070 --> 01:11:08.470]  We haven't even thought of it yet, and we're still trying to figure out the consequences of what technologies we've embraced and now are turning away from, in many respects.
[01:11:08.470 --> 01:11:09.830]  So it's fascinating.
[01:11:10.250 --> 01:11:12.690]  Always count on abuse being number one on people's list.
[01:11:12.710 --> 01:11:12.710]  It's weird.
[01:11:12.810 --> 01:11:23.030]  It's like, everything we look back on, it's like, oh, how is that just completely upended from its original intent and not taken seriously?
[01:11:23.410 --> 01:11:25.030]  Rebel, good to hear from you, as always.
[01:11:25.170 --> 01:11:26.510]  We look forward to next time.
[01:11:27.590 --> 01:11:27.890]  Okay.
[01:11:28.270 --> 01:11:28.630]  Take care.
[01:11:30.750 --> 01:11:31.710]  And that was Rebel.
[01:11:32.610 --> 01:11:34.350]  Mitch, I know it's very late where you are.
[01:11:34.530 --> 01:11:35.090]  What time is it?
[01:11:37.310 --> 01:11:38.950]  3.11 in the morning.
[01:11:39.190 --> 01:11:39.810]  Oh, it's pretty late.
[01:11:40.010 --> 01:11:41.530]  And Greg, where you are, what time is it?
[01:11:43.530 --> 01:11:52.290]  It's only 6.11 p.m., and the dogs are being fed, and you might have heard our dog, Maude, barking in the background.
[01:11:52.530 --> 01:11:53.310]  How is Maude?
[01:11:53.310 --> 01:11:53.670]  She's still hungry.
[01:11:53.810 --> 01:11:54.390]  How is Maude?
[01:11:55.150 --> 01:11:56.830]  She's doing remarkably well.
[01:11:56.970 --> 01:12:03.990]  Her brother, Wayne, unfortunately, went over the Rainbow Bridge about two or three months ago.
[01:12:04.190 --> 01:12:07.630]  So he had some deterioration that was fairly rapid.
[01:12:07.810 --> 01:12:09.850]  But Maude is getting on by.
[01:12:09.970 --> 01:12:13.010]  She's, I think, 14 or so years old now.
[01:12:13.150 --> 01:12:13.750]  She's 14?
[01:12:13.850 --> 01:12:14.890]  And pretty healthy, good appetite.
[01:12:15.910 --> 01:12:16.990]  Did you say she's 14?
[01:12:16.990 --> 01:12:18.190]  Yeah, 14, had some liver problems.
[01:12:18.350 --> 01:12:19.350]  So we have her on some meds.
[01:12:20.850 --> 01:12:22.850]  Maude's my favorite of all your dogs.
[01:12:23.090 --> 01:12:25.230]  Somehow, I don't think of Maude as a dog.
[01:12:25.630 --> 01:12:29.050]  It's like she's a step above, and she kind of handles things.
[01:12:29.510 --> 01:12:30.510]  It's really cool.
[01:12:30.770 --> 01:12:33.810]  I also heard through the grapevine that you lost Bear.
[01:12:36.190 --> 01:12:36.990]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:12:37.170 --> 01:12:45.730]  So we've actually had a few more dogs come into the house since we had our big get-together a few years ago now.
[01:12:46.230 --> 01:12:49.950]  But Bear is one of the ones that actually turned out he was born in New York.
[01:12:50.110 --> 01:12:52.130]  We didn't know that until a little bit later on.
[01:12:52.770 --> 01:12:54.130]  And had a couple other places.
[01:12:54.270 --> 01:12:55.930]  I don't think New York City, but New York State.
[01:12:56.290 --> 01:12:58.230]  And lived a couple other places.
[01:12:58.350 --> 01:13:00.550]  And we adopted him in Alaska.
[01:13:00.790 --> 01:13:04.870]  And then moved him from Alaska to Ontario and then to Yukon.
[01:13:05.150 --> 01:13:07.170]  But yeah, he was pretty old.
[01:13:07.370 --> 01:13:10.670]  I knew it was time for old Bear.
[01:13:10.770 --> 01:13:11.850]  He was about 16.
[01:13:11.850 --> 01:13:17.210]  And that's, for a pretty big breed like a husky, that's about as old as they generally get to be.
[01:13:17.610 --> 01:13:20.310]  Sometimes only 13 or 14.
[01:13:20.650 --> 01:13:22.190]  Or typically 15 or 16.
[01:13:22.510 --> 01:13:25.050]  By the way, as long as it keeps coming up, you mentioned Alaska.
[01:13:25.270 --> 01:13:29.570]  I've got to recommend the new TV program that's on ABC called Alaska Daily.
[01:13:29.850 --> 01:13:30.750]  You would like it, Greg.
[01:13:30.910 --> 01:13:35.170]  It's about a reporter who moves to Alaska to work on a newspaper.
[01:13:35.170 --> 01:13:45.690]  It's a lot of subject material about missing and murdered indigenous women, which is a big problem in that particular part of the world.
[01:13:46.230 --> 01:13:49.890]  And it's really covering ground that you don't expect on network TV.
[01:13:50.170 --> 01:13:51.950]  So check that out.
[01:13:52.050 --> 01:13:53.030]  I said it to all the listeners.
[01:13:53.030 --> 01:13:54.190]  It's on Thursdays, I believe.
[01:13:55.110 --> 01:13:55.590]  Documentary?
[01:13:55.790 --> 01:13:56.230]  No, no.
[01:13:56.330 --> 01:14:00.090]  It's a one-hour fictional piece.
[01:14:00.090 --> 01:14:03.650]  It's a primetime show, and it's pretty good.
[01:14:03.950 --> 01:14:05.770]  Scripted and dramatic.
[01:14:06.590 --> 01:14:07.590]  Filmed in Alaska.
[01:14:08.430 --> 01:14:14.470]  For that type of show, it's pretty outstanding where they've taken it.
[01:14:14.570 --> 01:14:20.270]  And they're treating the subject matter with the kind of reverence I think it deserves.
[01:14:20.490 --> 01:14:21.290]  A lot of good characters.
[01:14:21.370 --> 01:14:22.490]  A lot of interesting people.
[01:14:22.710 --> 01:14:23.570]  Yeah, it's kind of fun.
[01:14:23.790 --> 01:14:24.470]  Alaska Daily.
[01:14:25.670 --> 01:14:26.850]  Okay, so let's...
[01:14:26.850 --> 01:14:27.490]  One more call.
[01:14:27.910 --> 01:14:28.950]  Yeah, I'm ready.
[01:14:28.950 --> 01:14:30.710]  802-321-4225.
[01:14:31.550 --> 01:14:33.970]  We will wait for one more call.
[01:14:34.090 --> 01:14:37.210]  If we don't get one more call, of course, we will simply go our merry way without a call.
[01:14:37.430 --> 01:14:44.430]  Extra points for calls that talk about ways to use technology to help get the vote out.
[01:14:44.730 --> 01:14:45.110]  Yeah, sure.
[01:14:45.330 --> 01:14:47.630]  Do you have a favorite voting app you're using?
[01:14:47.850 --> 01:14:56.830]  Do you spread the word on different ideas for getting people signed and registered?
[01:14:57.970 --> 01:14:59.630]  Thanks, teacher Kyle, for making homework.
[01:14:59.930 --> 01:15:01.690]  Did you have an experience voting?
[01:15:02.250 --> 01:15:04.550]  Please rate your voting experience.
[01:15:04.950 --> 01:15:06.650]  I thought we were going to get away without an assignment.
[01:15:07.010 --> 01:15:08.510]  This was the voting show.
[01:15:09.050 --> 01:15:10.270]  Yeah, it certainly was.
[01:15:11.290 --> 01:15:14.750]  802-321-4225 is our phone number.
[01:15:15.050 --> 01:15:17.810]  And of course, if you've already called, it doesn't count if you call back.
[01:15:18.030 --> 01:15:19.650]  So I feel I have to say that.
[01:15:20.370 --> 01:15:25.090]  And of course, you can write to us at OffTheHook, O-T-H at 2600.com.
[01:15:25.630 --> 01:15:26.630]  We'd love to hear from you.
[01:15:26.810 --> 01:15:29.870]  We do get letters from people, and sometimes we read them on the air.
[01:15:30.130 --> 01:15:30.750]  Go ahead, Greg.
[01:15:33.070 --> 01:15:43.230]  Voting is an area where there's such an opportunity for technical solutions, for teleconferencing-based solutions, and for anti-fraud measures to be put in place.
[01:15:43.230 --> 01:15:46.230]  And we've seen that some of the solutions are out there, and it's just amazing.
[01:15:46.230 --> 01:15:57.850]  And they're applied, but unevenly, because it's just amazing how little will there seems to be by the politicians and bureaucrats that make the rules to put some of these solutions in place.
[01:15:58.230 --> 01:15:58.830]  And I wish...
[01:15:58.830 --> 01:15:59.870]  So it ends up being...
[01:15:59.870 --> 01:16:11.750]  That's what's interesting about it, is voting, voting security, voting access, voting equity, all these types of things are solutions ready, and yet the will is not there.
[01:16:11.890 --> 01:16:14.910]  The technology is there, but the will is not there, which is kind of the opposite.
[01:16:14.910 --> 01:16:16.710]  A lot of times, we're waiting for the technology.
[01:16:16.950 --> 01:16:18.730]  But in this case, there's so many great choices.
[01:16:19.850 --> 01:16:20.150]  Absolutely.
[01:16:20.450 --> 01:16:20.910]  And document.
[01:16:21.810 --> 01:16:25.570]  You know, if something is going on at a polling place that looks funny, take a picture.
[01:16:25.710 --> 01:16:30.690]  You know, you have all this technology at your fingertips.
[01:16:30.690 --> 01:16:40.990]  Make sure you bring your phone, you know, and maybe look up ways to report stuff that you might think, you know, is definitely intimidation.
[01:16:40.990 --> 01:16:46.410]  And we want to make sure people are safe and out there participating in the process.
[01:16:46.670 --> 01:16:55.930]  So if you're not using mail or some other technology and stuff, document what you see and share.
[01:16:56.110 --> 01:16:57.390]  Maybe we can make this stuff better.
[01:16:57.830 --> 01:16:58.350]  Yeah.
[01:16:58.450 --> 01:16:59.070]  Be careful, though.
[01:16:59.170 --> 01:17:00.830]  I mean, we don't want confrontations.
[01:17:01.010 --> 01:17:01.450]  Well, no.
[01:17:01.710 --> 01:17:06.250]  If somebody is being intimidating towards voters, you definitely want to note that.
[01:17:06.250 --> 01:17:08.330]  As simple a thing as a picture, whatever.
[01:17:08.590 --> 01:17:15.190]  I'm just saying that there's existing technologies that we shouldn't forget about that could really help in these situations.
[01:17:15.690 --> 01:17:15.990]  Absolutely.
[01:17:16.390 --> 01:17:17.450]  We did not get a call?
[01:17:17.810 --> 01:17:18.390]  Not yet.
[01:17:18.650 --> 01:17:18.850]  Okay.
[01:17:18.970 --> 01:17:20.050]  Well, give it one more minute.
[01:17:20.290 --> 01:17:22.430]  And then after that one minute, we're going to say goodnight.
[01:17:22.510 --> 01:17:22.910]  Mitch, go ahead.
[01:17:27.490 --> 01:17:32.490]  So we were talking about different kind of platforms for people to communicate.
[01:17:33.190 --> 01:17:35.170]  This has been going on for a long, long time.
[01:17:35.170 --> 01:17:39.650]  There's always been people who communicate, but preferably on one rather than another.
[01:17:39.910 --> 01:17:43.170]  People who will only use IRC if they're geeky.
[01:17:43.290 --> 01:17:46.010]  People who will not use IRC because they hate it.
[01:17:46.230 --> 01:17:48.050]  They'll only use email or whatever.
[01:17:48.350 --> 01:17:54.590]  And now there's how many, you know, hundreds of different platforms and some of them more obscure than others.
[01:17:55.130 --> 01:17:58.930]  There are people who only communicate on Facebook and I have some of them.
[01:17:59.090 --> 01:18:00.830]  So I check my Facebook once a day.
[01:18:00.830 --> 01:18:03.770]  And I was super busy today.
[01:18:03.770 --> 01:18:09.830]  So I was actually checking that before I got on with all of you on Skype for Off The Hook Radio.
[01:18:10.110 --> 01:18:15.010]  And I happened to have Facebook still open on my computer here.
[01:18:15.010 --> 01:18:18.590]  And it dinged just as Greg was talking.
[01:18:19.110 --> 01:18:22.150]  And we were talking about scams earlier.
[01:18:23.650 --> 01:18:24.270]  Arianne...
[01:18:24.270 --> 01:18:30.410]  This is from someone who I don't know and I'm not friends with, in quotes.
[01:18:31.630 --> 01:18:39.050]  Arianne, my girlfriend, says she needs $300 and is in the middle of nowhere, 20 hours from her hotel.
[01:18:39.130 --> 01:18:39.370]  Oh, no.
[01:18:39.370 --> 01:18:40.190]  And was robbed.
[01:18:40.210 --> 01:18:41.270]  And it's scary.
[01:18:42.090 --> 01:18:43.670]  She has no recollection of that.
[01:18:43.670 --> 01:18:43.810]  Oh, for Arianne.
[01:18:44.210 --> 01:18:44.670]  How can...
[01:18:44.670 --> 01:18:45.570]  Mitch, how can we help?
[01:18:46.630 --> 01:18:48.990]  Send $300 and we will repay you.
[01:18:49.190 --> 01:18:49.450]  Okay.
[01:18:49.570 --> 01:18:50.610]  Do they take credit cards?
[01:18:50.850 --> 01:18:52.990]  Because, you know, I want to send cash to the mail.
[01:18:53.070 --> 01:18:53.550]  That's stupid.
[01:18:53.690 --> 01:18:55.070]  I don't want to be scammed.
[01:18:55.510 --> 01:18:56.590]  Yeah, don't be stupid.
[01:18:56.730 --> 01:18:56.890]  No.
[01:18:57.650 --> 01:19:02.270]  So I'll give my credit card number if you give me a phone number to help Arianne.
[01:19:02.830 --> 01:19:03.590]  That sucks.
[01:19:04.050 --> 01:19:05.830]  Boy, you know, she should be more careful.
[01:19:06.490 --> 01:19:12.550]  Yeah, this is from, perhaps this is a real person and their account was scammed.
[01:19:12.790 --> 01:19:19.770]  But, yeah, so anyways, there's some interesting scams on Facebook lately.
[01:19:20.230 --> 01:19:43.850]  Over the last year I've gotten, I haven't seen this before this year, but people will take someone's account, they'll copy their, whatever they call their main picture, their Facebook picture, and then they'll contact all of their friends through Facebook Messenger saying you should,
[01:19:44.170 --> 01:19:50.550]  well, first of all, they'll give you a friend request and then they'll say, oh yeah, my account was hacked.
[01:19:50.710 --> 01:20:01.510]  And then they'll say that they got a huge amount of money from a government agency and that you should contact this particular person on Facebook.
[01:20:02.550 --> 01:20:06.130]  Because, of course, government agencies all use Facebook to give away money.
[01:20:06.290 --> 01:20:06.850]  If they're smart, yeah.
[01:20:07.710 --> 01:20:08.130]  Yeah.
[01:20:08.330 --> 01:20:10.230]  So that's happened to me several times.
[01:20:10.490 --> 01:20:10.710]  Hang on a second.
[01:20:10.830 --> 01:20:10.970]  All right.
[01:20:11.030 --> 01:20:17.710]  So if I take the face of somebody that's on Facebook now, then I say that's me and I lost my account.
[01:20:17.710 --> 01:20:22.030]  And if the person is continuing to say stuff, they're lying and they're a scam artist.
[01:20:22.150 --> 01:20:25.970]  But then I introduce this government agency that has all this money.
[01:20:25.970 --> 01:20:26.710]  So what do I do with that?
[01:20:26.870 --> 01:20:26.910]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:20:26.990 --> 01:20:29.810]  So like you, Emmanuel, have a Facebook account.
[01:20:30.030 --> 01:20:30.110]  Right.
[01:20:30.310 --> 01:20:37.490]  And you've been on for years and years and you have your Facebook profile photo.
[01:20:37.670 --> 01:20:37.750]  Right.
[01:20:38.010 --> 01:20:43.750]  And so I come along and I go, well, Emmanuel has a lot of Facebook friends.
[01:20:43.750 --> 01:20:45.330]  So I'll take his account.
[01:20:45.490 --> 01:20:53.150]  I'll create a new one with your name and then add and do Facebook friend request.
[01:20:53.370 --> 01:20:55.050]  I thought I was the scammer here.
[01:20:55.050 --> 01:20:56.270]  And now suddenly you're the scammer.
[01:20:56.370 --> 01:20:56.850]  OK, fine.
[01:20:57.110 --> 01:20:58.170]  You take the scammer.
[01:20:58.690 --> 01:20:58.890]  Yeah.
[01:20:59.030 --> 01:21:00.550]  I want to taste, though.
[01:21:01.010 --> 01:21:02.670]  You're a good guy and I'm a bad guy.
[01:21:02.850 --> 01:21:10.230]  So I create an account that looks exactly like yours, except there's no content because it's new.
[01:21:10.490 --> 01:21:15.790]  And I get all of your friends to believe that your account was hacked and they should make me a friend.
[01:21:15.870 --> 01:21:17.870]  And I am impersonating you.
[01:21:17.950 --> 01:21:21.110]  And now I say, yeah, you know, what's new with you?
[01:21:21.110 --> 01:21:27.670]  Oh, but for me, what's new with me is I got $100,000 from the government agency of blah, blah, blah.
[01:21:27.930 --> 01:21:29.030]  And you should, too.
[01:21:29.170 --> 01:21:31.010]  If you checked into it, you should check it out.
[01:21:31.510 --> 01:21:34.010]  Anyways, this is just a common scam going on now.
[01:21:34.290 --> 01:21:35.830]  And then when they check into it, what happens?
[01:21:36.390 --> 01:21:37.310]  They just get their info?
[01:21:37.730 --> 01:21:39.050]  Well, I follow...
[01:21:39.050 --> 01:21:41.910]  When someone tries to scam me, I try to scam them back.
[01:21:41.910 --> 01:21:46.510]  Um, so I, I go on there and I'm like, so, uh, yeah, well, tell me about this.
[01:21:46.710 --> 01:21:57.690]  And, um, uh, so they give me the link to their Facebook friend who is this government agent who's going to give me $100,000 if I'm eligible.
[01:21:58.090 --> 01:22:00.050]  And then I report it to Facebook.
[01:22:00.050 --> 01:22:02.370]  And then about an hour later, they're all gone.
[01:22:03.530 --> 01:22:05.070]  You spoil all the fun, Mitch.
[01:22:05.490 --> 01:22:06.010]  Party poop.
[01:22:06.010 --> 01:22:09.270]  I know I'm really no fun because I am a bad guy, you know.
[01:22:09.390 --> 01:22:10.430]  We have a call.
[01:22:11.910 --> 01:22:12.210]  Good evening.
[01:22:12.430 --> 01:22:13.630]  Welcome to Off the Hook Overtime.
[01:22:15.610 --> 01:22:16.610]  Greetings, everybody.
[01:22:16.930 --> 01:22:17.490]  How you doing?
[01:22:17.590 --> 01:22:18.050]  Where are you calling from?
[01:22:19.710 --> 01:22:20.870]  I'm phoning from London.
[01:22:21.070 --> 01:22:21.430]  It's Zap.
[01:22:21.710 --> 01:22:22.710]  Zap, how you doing?
[01:22:24.070 --> 01:22:24.950]  Hey, not bad.
[01:22:25.710 --> 01:22:27.190]  It's, uh, pretty late over there, too.
[01:22:28.890 --> 01:22:32.510]  Yeah, it's about 2, coming up to 2.25 in the morning.
[01:22:32.690 --> 01:22:33.350]  Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[01:22:33.470 --> 01:22:35.330]  So what's, what's new over in the UK?
[01:22:35.470 --> 01:22:36.330]  Well, I know it's new.
[01:22:36.630 --> 01:22:40.190]  You have yet another prime minister, my God, going through them like baseball cards.
[01:22:40.190 --> 01:22:40.990]  Yeah, we didn't vote.
[01:22:40.990 --> 01:22:42.150]  That's the reason why I'm phoning.
[01:22:42.730 --> 01:22:47.630]  Basically, uh, we've had about three prime ministers in the last two and a half months or something.
[01:22:47.770 --> 01:22:48.090]  Mm-hmm.
[01:22:49.490 --> 01:22:52.590]  So, um, yeah, not even voting and we're getting new people.
[01:22:53.310 --> 01:22:55.330]  Yeah, that's taken care of for you by the party.
[01:22:55.450 --> 01:22:56.430]  That's, that must be comforting.
[01:22:57.270 --> 01:22:58.210]  And you got a king!
[01:22:58.810 --> 01:23:00.170]  You got a, you got a new king.
[01:23:00.270 --> 01:23:01.010]  Yeah, it's been rough.
[01:23:01.090 --> 01:23:01.950]  We haven't talked to you since.
[01:23:01.950 --> 01:23:11.270]  I, I love how you guys went from the oldest or the longest reigning monarch to the shortest reigning prime minister within a month.
[01:23:11.530 --> 01:23:12.390]  That was incredible.
[01:23:12.670 --> 01:23:13.870]  Yeah, very short time.
[01:23:14.090 --> 01:23:18.130]  But I think Canada has the same monarchy, so they've got it as well.
[01:23:18.810 --> 01:23:19.590]  That's true.
[01:23:19.730 --> 01:23:23.070]  Greg, you're, you're under, under the king's realm, I believe.
[01:23:25.570 --> 01:23:26.650]  We are, yeah.
[01:23:26.830 --> 01:23:35.190]  In fact, in my workplace, we have something called the king's printer, which is who does the printing, and that's, uh, been renamed the king's printer.
[01:23:35.450 --> 01:23:36.810]  So, uh, things have to change.
[01:23:36.950 --> 01:23:48.030]  But I wanted to comment about this parliamentary system, because we heard from the earlier caller from Canada about how, uh, some of the Fords didn't manage to, uh, you know, to place in the Ontario for the Toronto elections.
[01:23:48.350 --> 01:24:05.250]  And the thing that's weird, and we just heard two examples from England, same, system, is in the parliamentary system, you vote for your local person, your local member of parliament who goes to the federal system, or your local member of the legislative assembly who goes to the provincial or territorial system.
[01:24:05.270 --> 01:24:09.830]  So, very similar to, like, a state representative and a federal representative house or senate.
[01:24:10.330 --> 01:24:25.050]  And then those people are the ones who decide who's the leader of the party, and that person becomes the premier of Ontario, in the case of Doug Ford, or the The Prime Minister of Canada, in the case of Justin Trudeau, or the Prime Minister of England,
[01:24:25.050 --> 01:24:30.390]  in the case of this other rich guy that got elected.
[01:24:30.490 --> 01:24:43.110]  So it's really fascinating to me that we don't have direct ability to even vote for the people that are going to be your, you know, equivalent to the governor or the equivalent to the president.
[01:24:48.530 --> 01:24:50.400]  We're letting Zap reply.
[01:24:50.580 --> 01:24:51.220]  It's sinking in.
[01:24:51.240 --> 01:24:51.620]  Yeah, all right.
[01:24:51.680 --> 01:24:52.580]  Okay, just making sure.
[01:24:54.140 --> 01:24:55.180]  You heard that, right?
[01:24:55.200 --> 01:24:55.340]  I was listening.
[01:24:55.700 --> 01:24:56.180]  Okay, good.
[01:24:56.560 --> 01:24:56.840]  Yeah.
[01:24:57.040 --> 01:24:58.520]  Yeah, it's similar here in Germany.
[01:24:58.880 --> 01:24:59.960]  Is it similar in Germany?
[01:25:00.080 --> 01:25:00.260]  Just about.
[01:25:00.440 --> 01:25:01.040]  Wow, okay.
[01:25:03.160 --> 01:25:03.680]  Cool.
[01:25:03.860 --> 01:25:06.440]  Anything else happening over there in London?
[01:25:06.740 --> 01:25:07.720]  Yeah, how are you holding up?
[01:25:07.900 --> 01:25:08.620]  Not really.
[01:25:09.700 --> 01:25:13.020]  I'm sort of holding up best I can, considering my circumstances.
[01:25:13.320 --> 01:25:22.920]  But the main reason I'm phoning is I saw you sent out a message on Twitter asking for everyone to try and subscribe via Amazon.
[01:25:23.580 --> 01:25:25.340]  Well, okay.
[01:25:25.540 --> 01:25:33.960]  There was something sent out by 2600 encouraging people who have Kindles to subscribe to the magazine because it's super cheap.
[01:25:34.120 --> 01:25:34.980]  It's a monthly thing.
[01:25:34.980 --> 01:25:46.980]  It's under a dollar and it helps the magazine because what we've been faced with in recent months and pretty much throughout the years is just skyrocketing printing costs.
[01:25:47.080 --> 01:25:51.600]  And especially after the pandemic or through the pandemic, they just keep going up relentlessly.
[01:25:51.600 --> 01:25:56.080]  And there's really no escape from that.
[01:25:56.300 --> 01:26:03.080]  It's not something that you can just, you know, weigh something else to counteract it and solve the problem.
[01:26:03.240 --> 01:26:19.380]  So we think that, you know, a strong digital reaction, whether it's through our PDFs, which is still trying to get a subscription model going with the PDFs, or with Kindle editions, that would help offset the massive printing costs.
[01:26:19.380 --> 01:26:21.620]  Because keep in mind, you know, we just had a conference.
[01:26:21.620 --> 01:26:26.740]  We had about half number of people that we wanted to have at the conference because of COVID.
[01:26:26.940 --> 01:26:28.700]  We kept that down.
[01:26:29.720 --> 01:26:36.280]  So it's, you know, we have some lean times ahead, it looks like, at this point, unless we figure out some alternatives.
[01:26:36.280 --> 01:26:39.420]  We want to be able to keep doing all the things that we love doing.
[01:26:40.990 --> 01:26:42.700]  But these things affect us.
[01:26:42.860 --> 01:26:44.080]  They affect everybody.
[01:26:44.340 --> 01:26:48.480]  But especially, you know, a printed magazine, those are few and far between.
[01:26:48.480 --> 01:26:53.180]  A printed magazine with no advertisements, you know, people will tell you it's impossible.
[01:26:53.360 --> 01:26:55.820]  And I don't want to agree with them.
[01:26:55.920 --> 01:26:58.040]  I want to start saying, yeah, they were right.
[01:26:58.360 --> 01:26:59.840]  I think we can get through this.
[01:26:59.840 --> 01:27:03.400]  But it just means we have to ask for support.
[01:27:03.400 --> 01:27:07.140]  And we never want to just ask for support without giving something back.
[01:27:07.360 --> 01:27:13.960]  So I just feel, you know, as many ways as you can figure out to support 2600, that'll keep us going.
[01:27:15.580 --> 01:27:16.900]  I totally agree.
[01:27:16.920 --> 01:27:19.100]  I think it's worth every cent or every penny.
[01:27:20.000 --> 01:27:24.460]  Unfortunately, you're going to have to wait 28 days to get my money because I'm in a trial period.
[01:27:24.940 --> 01:27:31.840]  Is there any other way that I can get you more money by getting maybe buying some PDFs of the website, for example?
[01:27:32.080 --> 01:27:34.860]  Well, we're going to be, you know, we're looking into this.
[01:27:35.040 --> 01:27:43.920]  It's just, it's been difficult finding the right solution for PDF subscriptions where you can actually get the PDF version delivered to you automatically.
[01:27:44.400 --> 01:27:46.520]  We hope to find that and have that solved.
[01:27:46.640 --> 01:27:52.180]  We're also going back and making PDFs available of individual issues.
[01:27:52.180 --> 01:27:54.260]  We go back to 2019 now, I think.
[01:27:54.460 --> 01:27:56.620]  So we're going to try opening that up as well.
[01:27:56.740 --> 01:27:58.700]  So there's a few things that we're going to be doing.
[01:27:58.980 --> 01:28:07.660]  Yeah, I just want to add to this that we are looking intensely at specifically custom subscription management software.
[01:28:07.960 --> 01:28:18.240]  It is a really kind of simple thing in function, but it is a really oversaturated market.
[01:28:18.240 --> 01:28:38.780]  There's all of these different software as a service companies trying to get in on this need that people have, whatever they are selling, whether it's a subscription for physical goods or, in our case, digital items and publications and so forth.
[01:28:38.780 --> 01:28:47.900]  So we're really looking intensely at pretty much everything that's out there and a big part of there's a wide range of options.
[01:28:48.060 --> 01:28:51.900]  As I said, a big part of it is cost and scale.
[01:28:51.900 --> 01:28:56.820]  And we want to make it custom so that it does what we want it to do.
[01:28:57.000 --> 01:28:58.780]  We want it to deliver the way we want it to do.
[01:28:58.880 --> 01:29:04.900]  We want it to manage our subscribers in a very, let's just say, controlled way.
[01:29:06.060 --> 01:29:10.180]  We care very much about who and how that's being handled.
[01:29:10.380 --> 01:29:14.900]  And suffice to say, we're not going to be developing something custom ourselves.
[01:29:15.060 --> 01:29:26.720]  We'd like to work with someone that is able to do basically what we want without all the extra stuff and without basically robbing us.
[01:29:26.720 --> 01:29:39.380]  Because a lot of them are set up to basically, you just hand over all this, all this control and they charge you a lot just to get in onboarded as they, as they like to use in the language.
[01:29:39.380 --> 01:29:41.360]  And then they gouge you.
[01:29:42.260 --> 01:29:54.120]  That's not fair, but it's, it's also impractical for us to, to learn how to build widgets and, and develop this ourselves.
[01:29:54.120 --> 01:29:58.420]  Uh, cause we're doing a lot in the way of publishing the actual magazine.
[01:29:58.440 --> 01:30:02.700]  And this is a common problem with publishers making the leap from physical to digital.
[01:30:02.920 --> 01:30:06.200]  And we like, as he said, we'd like to keep printing.
[01:30:06.440 --> 01:30:06.560]  Yeah.
[01:30:06.680 --> 01:30:17.900]  So if we can straddle that in some way, uh, we, we look at a lot of the different things that, um, other publications do and in terms of layout and engineering and stuff like that.
[01:30:17.980 --> 01:30:23.080]  But this, this, um, subscription management thing is something we are really keenly interested in.
[01:30:23.080 --> 01:30:36.600]  And so if anyone has suggestions on how to customize, how to do this affordably, how to scale it affordably, we would love to get insight on, on, um, ways that don't feel like you're dropped off, abandoned in a wilderness.
[01:30:36.600 --> 01:30:38.840]  Cause that's a lot of where we're at now.
[01:30:39.080 --> 01:30:44.000]  Everything and everybody is basically telling us printing doesn't make sense, doesn't work.
[01:30:44.000 --> 01:30:45.500]  You know, it's, it's expensive to print.
[01:30:45.620 --> 01:30:46.900]  It's expensive to mail.
[01:30:47.080 --> 01:30:48.860]  The stores are going out of business.
[01:30:49.100 --> 01:30:50.440]  People don't go outside anymore.
[01:30:50.920 --> 01:30:57.580]  And there's just something so special to me about something that you hold in your hand that is printed ink on paper.
[01:30:57.800 --> 01:30:59.440]  And that's how we got started.
[01:30:59.860 --> 01:31:03.140]  That was, uh, you know, the, the romance that lured us in.
[01:31:03.260 --> 01:31:07.020]  And that's not something I just, you know, want to give up on.
[01:31:07.020 --> 01:31:16.080]  And I think there is, uh, there, there is plenty of future there, but there's also future in other things as well that can help offset the investment we have to make to keep the print going.
[01:31:16.300 --> 01:31:18.900]  So hopefully we can, we can figure this out as a community.
[01:31:19.020 --> 01:31:21.200]  The community has always been super supportive.
[01:31:21.200 --> 01:31:23.240]  So I'm just hoping that we find a way.
[01:31:23.600 --> 01:31:24.000]  Yeah.
[01:31:24.440 --> 01:31:25.120]  Getting better.
[01:31:25.200 --> 01:31:26.700]  The community is very supportive.
[01:31:27.020 --> 01:31:28.020]  It is very supportive.
[01:31:28.720 --> 01:31:30.160]  Um, I've been spreading the word.
[01:31:30.360 --> 01:31:31.680]  I got a subscription.
[01:31:31.960 --> 01:31:33.140]  I don't even use Kindle.
[01:31:33.260 --> 01:31:35.940]  I know you can get an app, but I'm, I prefer the paper version.
[01:31:35.940 --> 01:31:41.180]  So I do agree that your magazine in your hand physically is great, especially if you want to swat a fly.
[01:31:41.320 --> 01:31:42.600]  It's a lot cheaper than getting your tablet.
[01:31:43.560 --> 01:31:44.140]  Uh-huh.
[01:31:45.900 --> 01:31:46.480]  But yeah.
[01:31:47.180 --> 01:31:47.560]  Yeah.
[01:31:47.660 --> 01:31:48.100]  That's the thing.
[01:31:48.220 --> 01:31:50.120]  It's a format that doesn't use batteries.
[01:31:50.280 --> 01:31:52.880]  It's, uh, uh, shareable in, in many ways.
[01:31:52.880 --> 01:32:04.080]  Uh, you can bring it with you and, and, uh, yeah, we're, we're going to continue to do as much as we can to keep it, um, in that form and, and use as many of the, uh, different, uh, options there are.
[01:32:04.080 --> 01:32:20.940]  Um, cause this is not a unique problem necessarily, but we want to also enhance that, um, ability to use it, use the formats that people are also using like tablets and so forth, uh, to just keep up with it and, um, keep refreshing it with, with stuff that's accessible.
[01:32:20.940 --> 01:32:23.640]  Like that's really what it's about is, is it accessible?
[01:32:23.880 --> 01:32:25.460]  Is it convenient for people?
[01:32:25.720 --> 01:32:34.020]  And, um, those other management features that, that integrate with our store and stuff like that is, um, that's where it's at for us.
[01:32:34.220 --> 01:32:42.760]  We want to make sure that that is top notch and as good as it can be, um, uh, retaining people and just keeping it, um, as, as good as it can be.
[01:32:42.820 --> 01:32:43.740]  And it's, it's lagged behind.
[01:32:43.880 --> 01:32:47.060]  We've not given it as much attention, but we're definitely working on that right now.
[01:32:47.060 --> 01:32:48.860]  And Zap, we want to thank you for your support.
[01:32:48.980 --> 01:32:50.140]  You've always been there for us.
[01:32:50.260 --> 01:32:55.480]  You've always been this, this voice of, of comfort in hard times at, uh, and, and sanity as well.
[01:32:55.720 --> 01:32:57.540]  So don't think that's not noticed.
[01:32:59.440 --> 01:33:03.640]  Well, like you said, the last time I phoned, 2,600 is like my family.
[01:33:04.520 --> 01:33:06.740]  Um, we're very close at the London meets.
[01:33:06.840 --> 01:33:07.920]  We're branching out.
[01:33:08.040 --> 01:33:09.020]  We're trying to get more meetings.
[01:33:09.020 --> 01:33:12.680]  We'll have more meetings in the UK in 2023, with any luck.
[01:33:13.060 --> 01:33:16.560]  We're working on the Italian one, uh, to get Rome up and going.
[01:33:17.380 --> 01:33:19.360]  Um, but that person's had a few problems.
[01:33:19.680 --> 01:33:21.800]  Um, so we're not going to put any pressure on them.
[01:33:22.000 --> 01:33:28.680]  So, you know, the love gets shared around, you know, to me, it's my life.
[01:33:28.880 --> 01:33:30.740]  It's all been a big place in my life.
[01:33:30.740 --> 01:33:34.140]  I've met some very, very good friends through 2,600 meets.
[01:33:35.220 --> 01:33:35.820]  And, um...
[01:33:35.820 --> 01:33:36.100]  Likewise.
[01:33:36.340 --> 01:33:37.420]  I just love the community, really.
[01:33:37.620 --> 01:33:37.800]  Yeah.
[01:33:38.000 --> 01:33:38.960]  It's just my life.
[01:33:39.040 --> 01:33:40.180]  It's so unique, so awesome.
[01:33:40.200 --> 01:33:43.000]  I am thinking about... I was thinking about Rebel.
[01:33:43.620 --> 01:33:44.020]  Okay.
[01:33:44.020 --> 01:33:46.140]  It does feel like the 90s again, when he phoned in.
[01:33:46.340 --> 01:33:49.360]  And I was wondering, do you want us to send the boys around, like we did last time?
[01:33:49.420 --> 01:33:50.620]  Maybe we'll sort of take care of it.
[01:33:51.260 --> 01:33:59.680]  Because I do believe, if you go through the archives, the radio show after Beyond Hope, it was the last time we dealt with the Rebel situation.
[01:33:59.680 --> 01:34:09.320]  Well, I gotta tell you, um, uh, I don't know if you've listened, uh, in years past, where we were going through old voicemail recordings, uh, or voice BBS recordings from back then.
[01:34:09.760 --> 01:34:14.060]  Um, there are lots... there are tons of... do you remember we had a voice BBS?
[01:34:15.320 --> 01:34:15.760]  Yeah.
[01:34:15.960 --> 01:34:17.500]  In 1996, 97.
[01:34:18.040 --> 01:34:25.300]  Well, the messages for that board still exist, except they're in a format that we could not, um, uh, translate.
[01:34:25.560 --> 01:34:27.360]  And, and thanks to some listeners...
[01:34:27.360 --> 01:34:28.000]  It took us a while.
[01:34:28.000 --> 01:34:29.460]  We were able to do just that.
[01:34:29.600 --> 01:34:40.800]  But now we're in the process of going through hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of messages and weeding out the ones that are obviously private messages or ones that are unsuitable for one reason or another.
[01:34:41.240 --> 01:34:42.620]  And Rebel is on a lot of those.
[01:34:42.960 --> 01:34:44.000]  He's on a lot of those.
[01:34:44.120 --> 01:34:46.360]  Talking about Beyond Hope, you're probably on a couple.
[01:34:46.700 --> 01:34:50.340]  Uh, and, um, and we're gonna hear them at some point.
[01:34:50.500 --> 01:34:53.060]  So it's just, that, that universe is still out there.
[01:34:53.060 --> 01:34:55.960]  And it was very unique, a very special time.
[01:34:56.120 --> 01:34:57.360]  And yes, send the boys around.
[01:34:57.580 --> 01:35:01.040]  I, I imagine they've probably gained quite a bit of weight by, by, over the years.
[01:35:01.040 --> 01:35:01.640]  Just, just...
[01:35:01.640 --> 01:35:02.740]  But they're still an intimidating voice.
[01:35:02.740 --> 01:35:06.400]  So you know, though, but Rebel's been, he's been shooting hoops and stuff.
[01:35:06.420 --> 01:35:07.160]  He's got boys too.
[01:35:07.180 --> 01:35:08.800]  He's been, he's been working out.
[01:35:08.960 --> 01:35:09.080]  Yeah.
[01:35:09.080 --> 01:35:10.580]  So, uh, you might be surprised.
[01:35:10.920 --> 01:35:11.180]  Yeah.
[01:35:11.640 --> 01:35:12.720]  They have his back and stuff.
[01:35:12.740 --> 01:35:15.320]  Every night of the Rebel again, I haven't seen him since 97, actually.
[01:35:15.440 --> 01:35:17.080]  Well, you know, he's been a great...
[01:35:17.080 --> 01:35:17.540]  Good memories.
[01:35:17.780 --> 01:35:18.280]  Good cheers.
[01:35:18.420 --> 01:35:19.880]  He's, he's traveling around the world now.
[01:35:20.000 --> 01:35:21.280]  He went to Russia, of all things.
[01:35:22.340 --> 01:35:25.320]  I think he came via London, but he didn't tell me he was passing through.
[01:35:25.560 --> 01:35:26.900]  The nerve, right?
[01:35:26.900 --> 01:35:27.920]  He, he should have.
[01:35:28.360 --> 01:35:28.760]  Yeah.
[01:35:29.180 --> 01:35:30.780]  Well, we'll certainly tell you when we're in there.
[01:35:30.780 --> 01:35:41.800]  Yeah, um, I'm, I'm, I'm still trying to track down some of the people from Beyond Hope, actually, because they've got the tiny T-shell, uh, Net Weasel, especially I'm trying to track down.
[01:35:41.980 --> 01:35:43.540]  I have no word of Net Weasel.
[01:35:43.640 --> 01:35:44.540]  What happened to Net Weasel?
[01:35:44.620 --> 01:35:46.360]  I don't know what happened to a lot of people.
[01:35:46.680 --> 01:35:53.080]  It's, it's, it's kind of weird to think you, you know, listening to these things, you hear a voice and it triggers a memory and you say, what happened?
[01:35:53.120 --> 01:35:53.880]  Where did that person go?
[01:35:53.980 --> 01:35:54.600]  What became of them?
[01:35:54.700 --> 01:35:58.480]  And there's oftentimes no trace at all because all you knew was a handle.
[01:35:59.240 --> 01:36:03.020]  And, you know, if it's someone like Net Weasel, okay, what does that translate to?
[01:36:03.680 --> 01:36:05.740]  How are you going to find somebody with that name?
[01:36:06.220 --> 01:36:07.500]  So, um, yeah.
[01:36:07.720 --> 01:36:10.060]  Oh, I've got his real name, but I'm not going to give it out.
[01:36:10.260 --> 01:36:10.460]  Okay.
[01:36:10.580 --> 01:36:11.700]  Well, then you're ahead of me.
[01:36:13.140 --> 01:36:13.500]  Yeah.
[01:36:14.540 --> 01:36:14.920]  All right.
[01:36:15.080 --> 01:36:15.160]  Yeah.
[01:36:15.200 --> 01:36:16.220]  No, I miss all those guys.
[01:36:17.040 --> 01:36:18.500]  Um, we had a good time.
[01:36:18.600 --> 01:36:20.240]  It's the first time I went to New York and I hope.
[01:36:21.160 --> 01:36:22.120]  Yeah, I remember.
[01:36:22.240 --> 01:36:23.440]  I remember that very distinctly.
[01:36:23.560 --> 01:36:25.140]  It was, uh, it was an event.
[01:36:25.280 --> 01:36:26.220]  It was an amazing event.
[01:36:26.840 --> 01:36:34.100]  Keep the stories alive, you know, share what you can remember and, and, uh, try to get in touch like, like you're mentioning.
[01:36:34.100 --> 01:36:40.780]  Cause that's how you keep, keep, uh, what it was and, and, and, uh, keep it, pass it along that memory.
[01:36:41.000 --> 01:36:44.000]  And, and, uh, people will get the spirit from those stories.
[01:36:44.160 --> 01:36:49.040]  I think, of course, anyone has recordings or pictures, please share those as well, because that way we document that.
[01:36:49.040 --> 01:36:51.020]  And I just want to add just that voicemail thing.
[01:36:51.120 --> 01:36:52.580]  Like we mentioned it once on the air.
[01:36:52.760 --> 01:36:53.780]  Nobody said anything.
[01:36:54.020 --> 01:37:04.080]  And this is after I found like a power supply from a Mac that like eventually got this old, like, uh, uh, 386 go or it's a 286.
[01:37:04.180 --> 01:37:05.480]  I think it's windows three, one.
[01:37:05.620 --> 01:37:05.980]  We have to run.
[01:37:06.140 --> 01:37:06.740]  I think it's even earlier.
[01:37:06.880 --> 01:37:07.000]  Yeah.
[01:37:07.520 --> 01:37:09.520]  Anyway, that, that booted up.
[01:37:09.620 --> 01:37:10.480]  We copied the files.
[01:37:10.620 --> 01:37:12.120]  I don't know how we got them off the hard drive.
[01:37:13.000 --> 01:37:14.800]  Somehow with like an IDE converter.
[01:37:15.080 --> 01:37:15.860]  It was, it was a challenge.
[01:37:16.020 --> 01:37:16.460]  Made an appeal.
[01:37:16.880 --> 01:37:17.680]  Nobody said anything.
[01:37:17.840 --> 01:37:23.240]  Then we mentioned it again a couple of years later on the radio and somebody actually responded and told us what was going on with it.
[01:37:23.400 --> 01:37:23.680]  Uh-huh.
[01:37:23.740 --> 01:37:25.020]  Played around with it a little bit.
[01:37:25.180 --> 01:37:28.520]  And, uh, and then we did a bunch of batches and are, are going through them.
[01:37:28.700 --> 01:37:29.700]  So many messages.
[01:37:29.840 --> 01:37:30.320]  Oh my God.
[01:37:30.540 --> 01:37:33.200]  Just keep going is, is, is the theme there, I guess.
[01:37:33.360 --> 01:37:46.040]  Just relentlessly and, uh, get those stories, uh, make sure that, that they don't just disappear on that hard drive or whatever it is you're doing, you know, share and, uh, other people will react and that, that, that stuff's priceless.
[01:37:46.300 --> 01:37:49.340]  And, and share it with Jason over at Internet Archive and, uh...
[01:37:49.340 --> 01:37:50.100]  If you don't do anything else.
[01:37:50.100 --> 01:37:50.880]  It'll be preserved forever.
[01:37:53.180 --> 01:37:53.580]  Yep.
[01:37:53.880 --> 01:37:57.280]  Um, I've got a load of photos I need to scan, maybe send some to you.
[01:37:57.660 --> 01:37:58.620]  There's some video.
[01:37:59.280 --> 01:37:59.580]  Uh-huh.
[01:37:59.920 --> 01:38:03.960]  I'm still trying to track down the video of you, Emmanuel, abseiling outside the pub.
[01:38:04.120 --> 01:38:06.380]  I have that somewhere on one of my computers.
[01:38:06.800 --> 01:38:08.320]  Just, there was a video of me.
[01:38:08.880 --> 01:38:12.940]  It was weird because I had to make a flight to Paris, I think, early in the morning.
[01:38:13.100 --> 01:38:14.600]  You guys were having a party in a pub.
[01:38:14.960 --> 01:38:21.560]  And the only way that we could have the pub was, uh, for the door to be locked at a certain time.
[01:38:22.020 --> 01:38:26.140]  And so I couldn't go downstairs and leave when, when my taxi was arriving.
[01:38:26.220 --> 01:38:29.880]  The only way for me to leave the second floor was out the window.
[01:38:30.100 --> 01:38:32.360]  And that, of course, presented a problem of how to do that safely.
[01:38:32.870 --> 01:38:38.040]  And somehow, you, you guys over in the UK were prepared for this.
[01:38:38.100 --> 01:38:39.080]  They managed that.
[01:38:39.080 --> 01:38:39.400]  Oh my.
[01:38:39.460 --> 01:38:40.560]  And, and it was scary.
[01:38:40.780 --> 01:38:46.560]  It was, I mean, if, if you look at me, I'm like, uh, basically my, my, my head is pointed directly down at the ground.
[01:38:46.740 --> 01:38:47.460]  I'm upside down.
[01:38:47.720 --> 01:38:52.120]  I'm just going very slowly down until I, until I actually was on the ground.
[01:38:52.300 --> 01:38:53.300]  And, and, and that was it.
[01:38:53.380 --> 01:38:54.760]  That was how I left London.
[01:38:56.780 --> 01:38:57.140]  Yeah.
[01:38:57.640 --> 01:39:00.640]  Um, I'm thinking that was 96, 1996.
[01:39:02.360 --> 01:39:02.720]  Possibly.
[01:39:03.040 --> 01:39:03.140]  Yeah.
[01:39:03.220 --> 01:39:04.500]  I, I, I was in England then.
[01:39:04.720 --> 01:39:05.180]  No, definitely.
[01:39:05.380 --> 01:39:06.420]  I've got a very good memory.
[01:39:06.580 --> 01:39:07.140]  That's the problem.
[01:39:07.220 --> 01:39:08.080]  I have a very good memory.
[01:39:08.140 --> 01:39:13.100]  If I get arrested and they ask me about the hacking scene in the UK, a lot of people will get busted.
[01:39:13.660 --> 01:39:15.180]  Well, don't tempt them.
[01:39:15.820 --> 01:39:17.140]  They're going to be looking for you.
[01:39:17.840 --> 01:39:18.440]  It's okay.
[01:39:18.700 --> 01:39:21.020]  I just say I'm crazy and I should get away with that.
[01:39:21.140 --> 01:39:21.420]  Okay.
[01:39:21.420 --> 01:39:22.020]  I'll see the insanity.
[01:39:22.300 --> 01:39:23.760]  You could probably, you could probably get away with that.
[01:39:23.860 --> 01:39:24.060]  Yes.
[01:39:24.760 --> 01:39:25.800]  Well, Zab, I think I could.
[01:39:26.180 --> 01:39:27.480]  Zab, it's so great to hear from you.
[01:39:27.920 --> 01:39:29.420]  And, and, and please stay in touch.
[01:39:29.480 --> 01:39:30.920]  And we look forward to seeing you again.
[01:39:31.700 --> 01:39:32.060]  Will do.
[01:39:32.460 --> 01:39:32.780]  All right.
[01:39:33.060 --> 01:39:34.360]  I'll find you when I want to find him.
[01:39:34.500 --> 01:39:34.760]  All right.
[01:39:34.840 --> 01:39:34.940]  Cool.
[01:39:35.060 --> 01:39:35.240]  All right.
[01:39:35.300 --> 01:39:35.920]  Take care, everyone.
[01:39:36.120 --> 01:39:36.460]  Be well.
[01:39:36.580 --> 01:39:37.020]  Good to hear you.
[01:39:37.060 --> 01:39:37.180]  Bye.
[01:39:38.960 --> 01:39:39.580]  All right, folks.
[01:39:39.640 --> 01:39:41.400]  I think that's going to do it for us tonight.
[01:39:41.700 --> 01:39:44.020]  I think we've, uh, we said enough.
[01:39:44.060 --> 01:39:45.260]  That election was stolen.
[01:39:45.340 --> 01:39:45.860]  Oh, shut up.
[01:39:46.120 --> 01:39:46.200]  It was.
[01:39:46.320 --> 01:39:46.740]  Shut up.
[01:39:46.860 --> 01:39:47.400]  Get out of here.
[01:39:47.540 --> 01:39:48.200]  So sarcastic.
[01:39:48.200 --> 01:39:48.560]  That's it.
[01:39:48.680 --> 01:39:49.320]  I'm sick of that.
[01:39:49.320 --> 01:39:50.220]  Just wanted to remind you.
[01:39:50.380 --> 01:39:50.620]  Yeah.
[01:39:51.500 --> 01:39:53.880]  You've warmed up the, uh, the transcription engine.
[01:39:53.880 --> 01:39:54.920]  And the AI is awake.
[01:39:55.100 --> 01:39:57.640]  We want to make sure we, uh, send a few more messages.
[01:39:57.880 --> 01:39:59.460]  Do you think YouTube is going to kick us off again?
[01:40:01.580 --> 01:40:02.960]  Maybe we should bet on this.
[01:40:03.120 --> 01:40:05.660]  Uh, uh, I would think, I would think yes.
[01:40:05.900 --> 01:40:08.040]  Folks, if you're listening, you better grab this show now.
[01:40:08.180 --> 01:40:13.940]  Well, actually we always keep a copy on our site anyway, which is why you run your own site so that this kind of crap can't happen.
[01:40:14.280 --> 01:40:19.420]  Or whoever's in charge of appeals, go ahead and, uh, keep the light on for us.
[01:40:19.500 --> 01:40:21.900]  We'll be there as soon as it's taken down.
[01:40:22.020 --> 01:40:23.500]  But, uh, yeah, whatever.
[01:40:24.800 --> 01:40:28.060]  I, I, I don't, I don't, I don't suffer this gladly at all.
[01:40:28.340 --> 01:40:28.940]  I just don't.
[01:40:29.460 --> 01:40:31.140]  One more time for the road.
[01:40:31.340 --> 01:40:32.400]  You want me to play it again?
[01:40:33.380 --> 01:40:33.780]  Fine.
[01:40:33.900 --> 01:40:34.300]  The whole thing.
[01:40:34.440 --> 01:40:35.840]  That election was stolen.
[01:40:36.040 --> 01:40:36.680]  It was.
[01:40:36.820 --> 01:40:37.740]  And let me tell you why.
[01:40:37.820 --> 01:40:41.240]  I'll tell you that as soon as I tell you why all vaccinations are bad.
[01:40:41.400 --> 01:40:41.960]  No, I'm kidding.
[01:40:42.300 --> 01:40:42.920]  I'm kidding.
[01:40:43.080 --> 01:40:44.240]  You know, we can, we can joke, right?
[01:40:44.620 --> 01:40:45.500]  We can, right?
[01:40:47.040 --> 01:40:48.540]  Well, we'll find out, I guess.
[01:40:48.980 --> 01:40:50.140]  I guess we will.
[01:40:50.400 --> 01:40:50.740]  Yeah.
[01:40:51.240 --> 01:40:53.400]  Well, guys, it was so much fun having you this week.
[01:40:53.560 --> 01:40:54.260]  It really was.
[01:40:54.760 --> 01:40:55.620]  Change of pace.
[01:40:55.800 --> 01:40:56.320]  We had a treat.
[01:40:56.520 --> 01:40:56.760]  Thank you.
[01:40:56.960 --> 01:40:57.120]  Yeah.
[01:40:57.340 --> 01:41:00.880]  And, and, and just spanning the globe the way, the way you guys are.
[01:41:01.000 --> 01:41:05.160]  It's, it's just, you're, you're both testament to the joy of travel and, and innovation.
[01:41:05.640 --> 01:41:07.780]  And it's just so much fun every time we're together.
[01:41:08.900 --> 01:41:09.340]  Indeed.
[01:41:09.600 --> 01:41:13.540]  And this is the first time we're together since July in New York.
[01:41:13.980 --> 01:41:14.060]  Yeah.
[01:41:14.400 --> 01:41:17.080]  Remember that Chinese place we found at two in the morning in Flushing?
[01:41:17.140 --> 01:41:18.340]  Oh, so much fun.
[01:41:18.440 --> 01:41:19.280]  So much fun.
[01:41:19.400 --> 01:41:22.000]  We were exhausted and just all your help throughout.
[01:41:22.000 --> 01:41:29.820]  And, and we're just happy to share that experience and, and everything to come with, with y'all and everybody listening.
[01:41:29.820 --> 01:41:34.940]  But that, that, that just was it, the, the, that we made it and had a successful event.
[01:41:34.940 --> 01:41:37.120]  It was a Sunday too, a Sunday night at two in the morning.
[01:41:37.340 --> 01:41:37.760]  We found the cool part there.
[01:41:37.760 --> 01:41:39.560]  That's how you know you're in New York City.
[01:41:39.660 --> 01:41:43.740]  At two in the morning, you can find great, authentic Chinese food in, in Queens.
[01:41:44.080 --> 01:41:45.360]  And the place had hope in the name.
[01:41:45.500 --> 01:41:45.780]  What was it called?
[01:41:45.820 --> 01:41:46.460]  Hope to see you?
[01:41:47.240 --> 01:41:48.080]  That's just so popular.
[01:41:48.320 --> 01:41:48.400]  Hope to see you.
[01:41:48.580 --> 01:41:49.540]  That was the name of the place.
[01:41:49.660 --> 01:41:50.100]  What was it called?
[01:41:51.080 --> 01:41:52.000]  Hope to see you.
[01:41:52.000 --> 01:41:52.520]  Hope to see you, I believe.
[01:41:52.640 --> 01:41:52.800]  Yeah.
[01:41:52.920 --> 01:41:53.040]  Okay.
[01:41:54.160 --> 01:41:54.500]  Yeah.
[01:41:55.360 --> 01:41:55.720]  Yeah.
[01:41:55.840 --> 01:41:56.300]  That's great.
[01:41:56.620 --> 01:42:01.660]  So that was a, a totally fitting way to end a totally crazy experience.
[01:42:02.080 --> 01:42:06.820]  No, the totally fitting way was the next morning driving in the 2,600 van in a severe thunderstorm.
[01:42:07.660 --> 01:42:10.540]  That was the actual way to leave.
[01:42:11.140 --> 01:42:13.860]  Well, me and Greg missed that particular.
[01:42:15.860 --> 01:42:18.200]  Actually, no, I was driving the rider truck, wasn't I?
[01:42:18.260 --> 01:42:19.180]  Or the rental truck?
[01:42:19.280 --> 01:42:20.420]  I was behind you, yeah.
[01:42:20.520 --> 01:42:21.420]  You were in the 2,600 van.
[01:42:21.420 --> 01:42:21.880]  I was.
[01:42:22.060 --> 01:42:23.900]  And this is a true story.
[01:42:24.100 --> 01:42:25.880]  I was at an intersection in Queens.
[01:42:25.900 --> 01:42:27.340]  It's pouring down rain.
[01:42:27.540 --> 01:42:31.480]  And this stupid truck, which I was having an argument from the very beginning, had no air conditioning.
[01:42:31.480 --> 01:42:32.140]  It was awful.
[01:42:32.520 --> 01:42:37.840]  I couldn't figure out how to turn the windshield wiper on because every vehicle has it in a different place.
[01:42:38.000 --> 01:42:39.180]  And this one, it wasn't a switch.
[01:42:39.180 --> 01:42:40.340]  It was a dial.
[01:42:40.640 --> 01:42:41.920]  But I couldn't find it.
[01:42:42.040 --> 01:42:45.460]  So at the light, I'm yelling to Kyle, where?
[01:42:45.860 --> 01:42:47.580]  You have to come up here and help me.
[01:42:47.920 --> 01:42:53.980]  In the middle of traffic, he runs up and somehow you know, shows me how to turn the windshield wiper on.
[01:42:54.060 --> 01:42:55.080]  And that's how we got back.
[01:42:56.600 --> 01:42:57.040]  Yeah.
[01:42:57.340 --> 01:43:00.460]  Yes, I'm very intuitive and kinesthetic.
[01:43:00.460 --> 01:43:05.320]  For all the smoothness you ever experienced at a Hope Conference, there are many scenes like that that happen.
[01:43:05.480 --> 01:43:06.580]  So just keep that in mind.
[01:43:07.020 --> 01:43:07.180]  Yeah.
[01:43:07.840 --> 01:43:09.420]  But we figure it out together.
[01:43:09.960 --> 01:43:13.080]  So until next time, let's stay in touch.
[01:43:13.440 --> 01:43:13.800]  Yes.
[01:43:14.540 --> 01:43:15.940]  Listeners, we hope to see you again soon.
[01:43:16.000 --> 01:43:16.200]  Indeed.
[01:43:16.380 --> 01:43:16.700]  Thank you.
[01:43:16.900 --> 01:43:17.940]  And thank you guys.
[01:43:18.600 --> 01:43:19.180]  Mitch, Greg.
[01:43:19.280 --> 01:43:19.880]  Yeah, thanks.
[01:43:20.200 --> 01:43:20.520]  Be well.
[01:43:20.980 --> 01:43:21.140]  Hey.
[01:43:21.860 --> 01:43:22.400]  Be well.
[01:43:22.560 --> 01:43:22.780]  Be well.
[01:43:22.880 --> 01:43:23.120]  Bye-bye.
[01:43:23.520 --> 01:43:24.580]  Appreciate all the calls, too.
[01:43:24.940 --> 01:43:25.060]  Bye-bye.