[00:00.520 --> 00:02.180]  Wednesdays at 6.30 p.m.
[00:03.200 --> 00:04.700]  Stay tuned for Off the Hook.
[00:05.000 --> 00:11.040]  And this is WBAI New York 99.5 FM and WBAI.org Online.
[00:11.300 --> 00:13.760]  It is now 7 p.m.
[00:14.100 --> 00:14.840]  Stay tuned.
[00:31.330 --> 00:33.830]  Your call cannot be completed as dialed.
[00:34.070 --> 00:36.150]  Please check the number and dial again.
[00:37.070 --> 00:37.750]  012T.
[00:46.370 --> 00:49.590]  If you'd like to make a call, please hang up and try again.
[00:49.850 --> 00:53.930]  If you need help, stay on the line, and a hacker will assist you shortly.
[00:59.280 --> 01:03.720]  The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[01:04.690 --> 01:09.190]  I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
[01:09.880 --> 01:17.460]  We couldn't get much worse, but the best is back the worst.
[01:18.080 --> 01:19.980]  I hope that's understood.
[01:19.980 --> 01:21.040]  One day, let's go!
[02:46.550 --> 02:48.050]  And a very good evening to everybody.
[02:48.150 --> 02:50.290]  The program is Off the Hook.
[02:50.790 --> 02:53.910]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you, joined tonight by Kyle.
[02:54.390 --> 02:55.190]  Yes, I'm here.
[02:55.290 --> 02:55.650]  How are you doing?
[02:56.470 --> 02:59.450]  And over in Skypeland, I believe we have Rob T.
[02:59.610 --> 03:00.050]  Firefly.
[03:01.830 --> 03:04.230]  He's on the laptop, but he's not on the board, Kyle.
[03:04.450 --> 03:05.010]  Why is that?
[03:05.290 --> 03:07.510]  It's like the laptop isn't plugged in or something.
[03:07.870 --> 03:09.070]  Is that possible?
[03:09.570 --> 03:09.970]  Okay.
[03:10.910 --> 03:12.290]  Now I'm not plugged in.
[03:12.290 --> 03:12.510]  Okay.
[03:13.570 --> 03:14.470]  Try that again, Rob.
[03:15.950 --> 03:17.470]  Now you're still over on the laptop.
[03:17.990 --> 03:18.390]  Okay.
[03:19.830 --> 03:23.110]  Growing pains here as technology adjusts to our needs.
[03:24.810 --> 03:29.730]  Well, fortunately, I'm prepared for such an emergency because I have a stack full of papers here.
[03:29.870 --> 03:35.630]  Unfortunately, our toner is running low, so it's going to be difficult for me to read from this, but I'm going to do the best I can.
[03:36.090 --> 03:39.130]  We talked about the FTX story quite a bit last week.
[03:40.210 --> 03:41.770]  I believe we talked about it on the air.
[03:41.930 --> 03:45.750]  We might have talked about it on Overtime, Overtime being the show that follows this on YouTube.
[03:46.890 --> 03:48.870]  Kyle, do you have an update on our technical issues?
[03:49.510 --> 03:49.710]  Yes.
[03:50.250 --> 03:50.930]  What's the update?
[03:53.110 --> 03:55.390]  You can't just walk away and say there's no update.
[03:55.390 --> 04:09.030]  Okay, so basically, FTX was basically, I don't know how else to say it, kind of destroyed.
[04:09.510 --> 04:10.950]  Are we on or not?
[04:11.390 --> 04:14.050]  Yes, I'd like to introduce a couple of our guests.
[04:14.510 --> 04:16.730]  I think over there is Rob.
[04:17.630 --> 04:18.390]  Good evening.
[04:18.730 --> 04:20.290]  Wait, so it only works if you introduce him?
[04:20.430 --> 04:21.110]  That's how it is?
[04:21.210 --> 04:21.670]  Okay, fine.
[04:21.670 --> 04:22.670]  I'll give you the power.
[04:22.690 --> 04:23.650]  No, you do the introductions.
[04:24.210 --> 04:26.110]  It's the part of the show I dread the most.
[04:26.250 --> 04:26.770]  It was my mistake.
[04:26.770 --> 04:31.230]  It was a USB connection that was loose, but...
[04:31.230 --> 04:32.570]  Isn't that always the way?
[04:32.610 --> 04:35.390]  The side, over there, also is Gila.
[04:36.070 --> 04:36.450]  Hello!
[04:37.170 --> 04:37.810]  Joining us.
[04:38.150 --> 04:39.910]  Yeah, way to blast out my eardrums, Gila.
[04:39.910 --> 04:40.490]  Thank you for that.
[04:41.190 --> 04:42.770]  Yeah, looking good on the levels.
[04:43.470 --> 04:46.490]  I was going through trying to make some adjustments.
[04:46.670 --> 04:51.070]  And also, with us this evening is none other than...
[04:52.310 --> 04:52.790]  Alex.
[04:52.910 --> 04:53.650]  His name is Alex.
[04:53.910 --> 04:54.150]  Alex.
[04:54.450 --> 04:54.690]  Yeah.
[04:55.030 --> 04:56.170]  You forgot his name?
[04:56.570 --> 04:57.050]  Yeah.
[04:57.670 --> 04:59.490]  Well, hello, hello, everybody.
[05:00.030 --> 05:00.530]  All right.
[05:00.610 --> 05:01.170]  Well, you know what?
[05:01.650 --> 05:06.790]  If we can get started any time this hour, that'd be great, because we only are on for an hour.
[05:07.250 --> 05:13.170]  We do have another hour or so afterwards that follows at 8 o'clock on YouTube, on Channel 2600 there.
[05:14.210 --> 05:22.970]  And you can follow the link that is on our main 2600.com webpage, or just go to Channel 2600 and figure it out at 8 o'clock.
[05:22.970 --> 05:26.670]  So I was trying to talk about this story about FTX.
[05:26.870 --> 05:28.910]  Does somebody want to just explain quickly what FTX is?
[05:29.070 --> 05:29.670]  It's cryptocurrency.
[05:30.150 --> 05:30.890]  It's a...
[05:30.890 --> 05:32.150]  How do you describe it?
[05:32.270 --> 05:34.070]  It's an exchange.
[05:34.330 --> 05:34.870]  A exchange.
[05:34.910 --> 05:48.330]  A exchange is where people go to turn fiat money, cash, into cryptocurrency and trade cryptocurrency with others and, you know, generally gamble with cryptocurrency.
[05:48.330 --> 05:49.830]  But also do the opposite, right?
[05:50.290 --> 05:51.090]  That's true.
[05:51.350 --> 05:51.950]  Yeah, that's right.
[05:52.010 --> 05:52.970]  Also to cash out.
[05:53.170 --> 05:53.270]  Yeah.
[05:53.710 --> 05:59.230]  Well, as you may have heard, FTX collapsed, was basically destroyed.
[05:59.530 --> 06:13.670]  But this interesting story, FTX's new boss has accused the disgraced CEO, Sam Bankman-Fried, of hacking into his own company while in custody of the...
[06:14.330 --> 06:15.610]  I've never said this word before.
[06:16.050 --> 06:16.490]  Bahamian?
[06:16.610 --> 06:17.270]  Is that how you say it?
[06:17.450 --> 06:17.890]  Bahamian.
[06:18.130 --> 06:18.570]  Bahamian.
[06:18.790 --> 06:19.510]  See, I knew I'd get it wrong.
[06:19.830 --> 06:22.430]  The government of the Bahamas, but the Bahamian government.
[06:22.590 --> 06:22.690]  Okay.
[06:23.810 --> 06:27.210]  While in their custody, they insisted that he hack...
[06:27.210 --> 06:28.070]  This is alleged.
[06:28.430 --> 06:34.870]  They insisted that he hack into his company to obtain digital assets that belonged to FTX after they filed for bankruptcy.
[06:34.870 --> 06:38.350]  That's according to a bombshell lawsuit filed on Thursday.
[06:39.210 --> 06:39.910]  John J.
[06:40.250 --> 06:42.650]  Ray is an insolvency expert.
[06:42.650 --> 06:44.370]  That must be fun.
[06:44.950 --> 06:52.290]  Who steered energy firm Enron through its infamous $23 billion bankruptcy following a massive accounting scandal.
[06:53.250 --> 07:01.550]  He alleged the unauthorized access transferred FTX assets into accounts outside the control of management, according to the Wall Street Journal.
[07:01.550 --> 07:12.950]  The Bahamian government is responsible for directing unauthorized access to the debtor's systems for the purpose of obtaining digital assets of the debtors.
[07:12.950 --> 07:33.750]  The filing also alleged that Mr. Bankman-Fried and FTX co-founder Gary Wang stated in recorded and verified text that Bahamas regulators instructed that certain post-petition transfers of debtor assets be made by Mr. Wang and Mr. Bankman-Fried, who the debtors understand were both effectively in the custody of Bahamas authorities,
[07:34.010 --> 07:43.690]  and as such assets were custodied, yes, that's a verb, on fireblocks under control of Bahamian government.
[07:44.490 --> 07:48.290]  I'm not quite sure what a fireblock is, but it's capitalized, so it must be important.
[07:49.730 --> 08:07.450]  Yeah, so basically what this means is that the people who lost money, the actual individual people, like you and me, are doubly screwed now, because the money was taken and put someplace where they can not get access to it at all, where nobody can get access to it at all.
[08:08.570 --> 08:15.070]  And we don't really know who it is that did this, although the lawsuit alleges that it was Sam Bankman-Fried himself.
[08:15.830 --> 08:18.990]  I mean, the story just gets more and more bizarre as every day goes by.
[08:19.430 --> 08:21.090]  Alex, any thoughts on this?
[08:21.210 --> 08:25.630]  Is this making new ground in legal shenanigans?
[08:26.410 --> 08:44.750]  Yeah, I heard all about this over the last couple of days, and it's been the most interesting aspect of the FTX story by far, to my mind, because, you know, here you have a very, very unusual situation of a founder of a company being directed by a governmental regulator,
[08:44.810 --> 08:59.170]  in essence, to acquire unauthorized access to his own systems, which in and of itself doesn't necessarily make a lot of sense, because if they were his systems, then he wouldn't have had to exceed any kind of authorization.
[08:59.590 --> 09:01.950]  But yet, the assets didn't belong to him.
[09:02.090 --> 09:15.690]  So I would argue that, you know, there is some form of access authorization that's been exceeded, because he's taken into a bunch of these digital assets into custody and put them into the possession of a third party.
[09:16.050 --> 09:20.390]  So how all of this is going to shake out is going to be extraordinarily weird.
[09:20.390 --> 09:27.210]  Then you also have competing bankruptcy proceedings between the United States.
[09:27.970 --> 09:29.630]  Whoa, sorry about that.
[09:30.630 --> 09:31.490]  Really, Alex?
[09:32.130 --> 09:34.950]  You let the dog in the room that you're broadcasting from?
[09:35.610 --> 09:37.550]  That's the, yeah, that's my beagle.
[09:37.770 --> 09:39.130]  And then you get him angry somehow?
[09:39.270 --> 09:40.550]  In a firm position on antitrust.
[09:40.570 --> 09:44.210]  I'm sorry for all the listeners who are just jolted out of our skin by this.
[09:44.650 --> 09:46.570]  Maybe there's another room the dog can go into.
[09:48.850 --> 09:52.270]  And now I also have a sick four-year-old coming over here to say...
[09:52.270 --> 09:53.010]  That's preferable.
[09:53.170 --> 09:53.750]  That's preferable.
[09:53.850 --> 09:54.990]  As long as he doesn't cuss.
[09:55.470 --> 09:56.850]  Hopefully he doesn't know those words yet.
[09:57.570 --> 09:57.970]  Yeah.
[09:58.170 --> 09:59.190]  Well, you never know.
[09:59.230 --> 10:00.270]  He doesn't look so bad.
[10:01.350 --> 10:01.750]  Yeah.
[10:02.110 --> 10:02.330]  Yeah.
[10:02.570 --> 10:03.950]  You know, you want to say hi?
[10:04.430 --> 10:04.810]  No?
[10:04.990 --> 10:05.210]  Okay.
[10:05.610 --> 10:05.930]  All right.
[10:06.090 --> 10:29.430]  Anyhow, while my son is on my lap here, I think the other interesting aspect of this is that the competing bankruptcy proceedings between the United States and the Bahamas and where are these assets that were placed into the custody of the Bohemian authorities are going to end up going?
[10:29.670 --> 10:42.890]  I mean, are they going to have some kind of priority return to persons that were affected by this in the Bahamas or maybe those who have some kind of closer connection, let's say, to the Bahamas?
[10:42.890 --> 10:44.850]  Is there going to be some kind of priority given to them?
[10:45.110 --> 10:48.070]  All of this is really unclear at the moment.
[10:48.070 --> 11:13.990]  But this is very much uncharted territory and very strange for all of these facts and circumstances to come into play all around the bankruptcy filing, the hacking, the missing assets, the fact that there was no controls around the acquisition of these particular assets,
[11:14.190 --> 11:15.790]  their use, the governance principles.
[11:16.150 --> 11:23.670]  I mean, everything that's shaking out of the FTX story is just making this look worse and worse and worse.
[11:24.110 --> 11:29.550]  And especially because this was one of the largest cryptocurrency exchanges in the world.
[11:30.030 --> 11:36.850]  It's been it's been real eye opener to to see all these details shake out in the bankruptcy proceeding.
[11:37.030 --> 11:43.690]  I mean, things like private keys being stored in unsecured Gmail accounts.
[11:43.930 --> 11:48.430]  I mean, all kinds of just absolutely terrible things from a security practitioner's perspective.
[11:48.670 --> 11:55.070]  But then from the legal perspective of corporate governance, all of the all of this was just completely foul and wrong, too.
[11:55.230 --> 11:56.810]  Can I just add something here?
[11:57.050 --> 11:59.210]  The guy I mentioned before, John J.
[11:59.450 --> 12:10.450]  Ray, remember, this is the guy who who who oversaw what was going on with Enron Enron through that billion dollar twenty three billion dollar bankruptcy.
[12:10.470 --> 12:22.050]  What he had to say about this, about FTX, never in my career have I seen such a complete failure of corporate controls and such a complete absence of trustworthy financial information as occurred here.
[12:22.430 --> 12:26.210]  Again, this is the guy that oversaw the Enron debacle.
[12:26.390 --> 12:27.050]  So, wow.
[12:28.450 --> 12:36.770]  Yeah, I mean, it just shows that there really weren't any adults in the room, despite all of this massive amount of capital coming from very sophisticated investors.
[12:37.070 --> 12:43.510]  You would think that some of these investors might have had some oversight into the company or would have taken board seats.
[12:43.730 --> 12:56.270]  But I think all of them were gun shy in the sense that if they did have a board seat, there would be some kind of liability for a board member in the event that the platform collapsed like it did.
[12:56.410 --> 13:11.130]  And I don't think there's an insurer out there who would give you a sufficient amount of coverage in an errors and omission policy to take care of all of that liability that would attach to being a director of this particular company.
[13:12.370 --> 13:17.690]  I've been impressed with the rapid changing dynamic.
[13:18.010 --> 13:21.910]  I mean, it was very, very fast the way a lot of this has transpired.
[13:23.350 --> 13:25.970]  Yeah, it's pretty speedy.
[13:26.110 --> 13:31.370]  And it gets weirder and weirder by the day, as I said, but in different ways.
[13:32.130 --> 13:44.850]  Here's a bit of a piece from VulcanPost.com, as if the billions lost by millions of people, the billions lost by millions of people in the collapse of the second largest crypto exchange wasn't enough.
[13:45.030 --> 13:58.930]  Turns out, the hacker, quote unquote, who got away with close to $300 million worth of cryptocurrencies out of an estimated $477 million stolen during the turmoil from the failed company.
[13:59.870 --> 14:11.010]  That person, whoever they are, has now begun manipulating prices of Ether, dumping it by as much as 7% within hours.
[14:11.450 --> 14:18.610]  And as of when this started happening, that person was the 35th largest holder of Ether in the world.
[14:19.770 --> 14:20.410]  Yeah.
[14:20.670 --> 14:35.350]  And just to sum this up in a rather eloquent way, ultimately, we now have a single anonymous crook slash madman making waves in the market able to influence prices of even the largest cryptocurrencies by using stolen funds.
[14:35.810 --> 14:39.270]  Someone who has become a centimillionaire.
[14:40.230 --> 14:41.550]  What's a centimillionaire?
[14:41.810 --> 14:43.110]  C-E-N-T-I millionaire.
[14:44.230 --> 14:44.770]  A hundred million.
[14:45.590 --> 14:46.590]  That's what that means?
[14:46.750 --> 14:48.430]  I've never heard that word used before.
[14:48.550 --> 14:50.630]  So if you have a hundred million dollars, you're a centimillionaire.
[14:50.810 --> 14:52.270]  A hundred or hundreds of millions.
[14:52.530 --> 14:53.370]  Something to aspire to.
[14:53.510 --> 14:53.690]  Okay.
[14:54.250 --> 15:01.050]  Someone who has become a centimillionaire without putting a gun to anybody's head or, in fact, without even setting a foot outside their door.
[15:01.330 --> 15:02.270]  Well, you assume that.
[15:02.950 --> 15:05.250]  But yeah, it just... it's nuts.
[15:06.190 --> 15:07.670]  It's... where does it end?
[15:07.670 --> 15:09.990]  Do you think this is the end of crypto, folks?
[15:11.610 --> 15:12.050]  No.
[15:12.050 --> 15:12.770]  I don't.
[15:12.830 --> 15:14.810]  I don't think it's the end of crypto at all.
[15:14.890 --> 15:18.010]  In fact, I think it's a new beginning of crypto.
[15:18.010 --> 15:22.070]  I know there's some static between the hacker community and the cryptocurrency community.
[15:22.070 --> 15:25.830]  And I wish that we could bridge that divide in some respects.
[15:25.830 --> 15:34.570]  And I think it's our job in a lot of respects to bridge that divide because there's so many aspects of cybersecurity that are so important to cryptocurrency.
[15:34.570 --> 15:42.370]  And I think that cryptocurrency is going to become more important to cybersecurity over the next coming months and years that we see this.
[15:42.490 --> 15:50.590]  But as we talked about a bit on overtime last week, I think that this is just going to be par for the course for a little while.
[15:50.890 --> 15:55.470]  As part of this cryptocurrency winter, we've seen Celsius declare bankruptcy.
[15:55.690 --> 15:57.090]  We've seen FTX declare bankruptcy.
[15:57.330 --> 16:03.090]  It seems like both of those places didn't have great corporate governance, leadership, security controls, etc.
[16:03.490 --> 16:04.150]  in place.
[16:04.250 --> 16:14.610]  And I think we're going to see a lot of these places that were shambolic on the inside, but maybe looked okay on the outside, going to continue to fall.
[16:15.330 --> 16:18.530]  Everything that was a house of cards is going to begin to tumble.
[16:18.710 --> 16:26.110]  And I think we're going to be left with, maybe it'll be a bit of a wasteland for a while, but I think it will be time to rebuild.
[16:26.270 --> 16:40.110]  And I think we're going to rebuild on the basis of cryptocurrencies that have a better foundation and a better basis and more utility and more functionality than the existing crop of nonsense that's been out there for a while.
[16:40.350 --> 16:47.090]  And in particular, I'm talking about Ethereum itself, even though it's subject to some market manipulation because of this bad actor.
[16:47.310 --> 16:53.670]  I think Ethereum is going to be the one that stands the true test of time and is at the top of the heap.
[16:54.730 --> 17:13.190]  Yeah, I think inherent to any of these sort of value exchange systems, monetary, there's a level of trust at some part of it that needs to be there for people to, for there to be uptake of it, whether, whatever currency it is.
[17:14.170 --> 17:22.490]  And there are many, there are many, and they're all feeling the pinch at this point, looks like, but we'll stay on top of this as it gets weirder and weirder.
[17:22.650 --> 17:24.610]  Are you listening to Off The Hook here on WBAI?
[17:24.730 --> 17:34.170]  Please support WBAI by going to the website, give to WBAI.org, pledging whatever you can to help keep this radio station going.
[17:34.450 --> 17:55.810]  Because like many others, we're in dire times and we need to get through them because voices are important, voices of opposition, alternative viewpoints, and just investigative reporting, as well as alternative cultures and all sorts of other fun things that appear on our airwaves in a typical week.
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[18:14.250 --> 18:20.770]  It's extremely important that we stay on the air, right?
[18:20.770 --> 18:27.510]  Yeah, everyone, please think of us as you're putting together gifts at the end of the year.
[18:28.310 --> 18:29.270]  We need you.
[18:29.410 --> 18:30.870]  This is community radio.
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[18:39.530 --> 18:47.330]  And consider becoming a recurring donor and perhaps even a member of the station.
[18:47.490 --> 18:49.410]  It's a good slogan in there somewhere, community radio.
[18:49.450 --> 18:50.390]  We're providing the radio.
[18:50.650 --> 18:52.370]  Now we need the community, you know?
[18:52.470 --> 18:54.910]  So let's put the two together so we have community radio.
[18:55.070 --> 18:56.290]  I'm sure someone thought of that.
[18:56.490 --> 18:56.850]  Go ahead, Gila.
[18:56.850 --> 18:59.570]  So I just wanted to put in a quick plug.
[19:00.530 --> 19:07.750]  As I'm pretty sure most of our listeners know, tomorrow is Thanksgiving in the great old United States.
[19:07.830 --> 19:08.550]  Wait, that's this week?
[19:08.570 --> 19:09.250]  Wait a minute.
[19:09.330 --> 19:10.310]  I thought it was next week.
[19:10.570 --> 19:11.510]  I heard it was coming around.
[19:11.670 --> 19:15.830]  You should be defrosting your turkey if you're not already here in big trouble.
[19:18.470 --> 19:22.430]  And, you know, there's kind of an unofficial calendar for the week after Thanksgiving.
[19:22.430 --> 19:25.730]  And, you know, everybody goes shopping on Black Friday.
[19:25.950 --> 19:30.570]  And now there's Small Business Saturday and Cyber Monday was a thing.
[19:30.710 --> 19:33.010]  And now some places are talking about Stock Monday.
[19:33.270 --> 19:37.910]  And next week, a week from yesterday, is Giving Tuesday.
[19:38.070 --> 19:55.110]  And if you haven't thought about donating to WBAI and you want to wait till the official giving day that comes after the fiesta of purchasing that is the few days after Thanksgiving, please consider giving to WBAI on Giving Tuesday.
[19:55.590 --> 20:04.370]  I'm sure you've heard from a lot of nonprofits in your world and in your sphere, but BAI should definitely rate a spot on your list this year.
[20:04.610 --> 20:08.510]  So, you know, send money to BAI, get the tax write-off for the end of the year.
[20:08.690 --> 20:09.510]  It's a win-win.
[20:11.050 --> 20:15.570]  Do what you can and help us stay on the air.
[20:16.730 --> 20:19.970]  Yeah, this is Community Radio, as you said.
[20:19.970 --> 20:22.190]  And without the community, there is no radio.
[20:22.550 --> 20:26.230]  And this, right now, is how the community keeps us on the radio.
[20:26.490 --> 20:31.350]  This is the only thing that's been keeping us on the air for, what is it, 62 years now.
[20:31.830 --> 20:35.030]  And, you know, we don't sell ads.
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[20:41.230 --> 20:47.450]  All we can sell is ourselves and what we're doing and what we're producing and what we're putting out on the airwaves.
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[20:50.310 --> 21:00.110]  That's there because you, right now, who are listening, can, you know, call 212-209-2950 or go to give2wbai.org.
[21:00.110 --> 21:02.930]  That's give, the numeral 2, wbai.org.
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[21:07.870 --> 21:21.970]  And thank you to all those people who we know are calling because we asked you to and because, you know, it's the right thing to do and because you value community radio and want to keep hearing off the hook on as many Wednesday nights as possible.
[21:22.410 --> 21:23.310]  So thank you.
[21:23.630 --> 21:25.990]  Give2wbai.org, 212-209-2950.
[21:25.990 --> 21:32.570]  Rob, you've been spoken to about posting killer robot stories to the list.
[21:33.070 --> 21:41.070]  And I'm told that you did it again today with a story from a place called missionlocal.org.
[21:41.170 --> 21:48.210]  And the title simply reads Robots Authorized to Kill in San Francisco Police Department Draft Policy.
[21:50.170 --> 21:51.810]  You want to explain this?
[21:52.250 --> 21:56.690]  So there's killer robots now that San Francisco is going to unleash on the public?
[21:57.650 --> 21:59.090]  That appears to be the plan.
[21:59.230 --> 22:12.810]  According to a policy proposal that's headed for San Francisco's Board of Supervisors approval, this proposal would explicitly authorize San Francisco police to program their robots to autonomously kill people.
[22:14.030 --> 22:17.390]  Police departments all over the world have been using robots for all sorts of things.
[22:18.310 --> 22:25.530]  The sorts of dangerous situations you don't want to send a human police officer officer into or just to get the coffee or whatever.
[22:25.770 --> 22:31.590]  But the robots themselves, according to this proposal, will have the option to end your life.
[22:33.630 --> 22:36.290]  Okay, so Black Mirror has arrived.
[22:36.510 --> 22:37.330]  We are here.
[22:37.890 --> 22:41.230]  And I'm just looking at this story, pieces of it.
[22:41.230 --> 22:48.730]  The draft policy has faced criticism from advocates for its language on robot force as well as...
[22:48.730 --> 22:50.210]  That's force, used by robots.
[22:50.430 --> 22:51.510]  Not like the Air Force.
[22:51.630 --> 22:53.270]  It's actually the force that the robot will use.
[22:53.450 --> 23:01.930]  As well as for excluding hundreds of assault rifles from its inventory of military-style weapons and for not including personnel costs in the price of its weapons.
[23:01.930 --> 23:03.410]  I'm not sure if that's related.
[23:03.410 --> 23:05.550]  Are they giving the assault-style weapons to the robots?
[23:05.550 --> 23:06.630]  I can't believe I'm saying this,
[23:12.550 --> 23:15.590]  Yeah, so here's a quote.
[23:15.690 --> 23:27.130]  Robots will only be used as a deadly force option when risk of loss of life to members of the public or officers are imminent and outweigh any other force option available to the police department.
[23:27.170 --> 23:31.150]  Now, I've heard that said by humans many times when killing unarmed people.
[23:31.390 --> 23:41.050]  Are the robots going to have the same level of judgment where they view certain people as a threat by default?
[23:42.170 --> 23:43.850]  This is a very interesting question.
[23:43.990 --> 23:46.450]  I mean, robots are like any other computer.
[23:46.630 --> 23:47.990]  They're very sophisticated idiots.
[23:48.370 --> 23:50.790]  They're very good at telling them exactly what's...
[23:50.790 --> 23:53.250]  They're very good at accomplishing exactly what's programmed into them.
[23:53.390 --> 23:59.130]  But they're not so good at making the sort of fuzzy decisions, the day-to-day decisions.
[23:59.610 --> 24:06.350]  How many times do you ask Alexa or Siri or whoever to play one song and instead it does something completely different?
[24:07.390 --> 24:15.550]  Computers are not very good right now at distinguishing whether you want to hear the weather girls or hear the weather.
[24:16.810 --> 24:23.630]  And it's that sort of technology that's going to decide whether it needs to shoot you with a gun or not.
[24:23.630 --> 24:25.450]  And that terrifies me.
[24:25.510 --> 24:27.570]  And not just because I was raised on Robocop movies.
[24:28.890 --> 24:29.730]  Okay, yeah.
[24:29.890 --> 24:34.950]  Well, Alex, tell me, should we be really scared by what we're seeing here?
[24:35.990 --> 24:40.350]  I mean, it sounds like, you know, San Francisco should frankly know better.
[24:40.530 --> 24:55.710]  I mean, this is a city that insofar as I recall had banned facial recognition earlier than most other cities in the country, is heavily involved, but technology should understand the perils of technology.
[24:55.710 --> 25:01.390]  And I feel like technologists understand the limits of technology better than anybody else.
[25:01.570 --> 25:14.330]  I mean, this is the reason why most of us that work in cybersecurity don't have electronic locks on our doors and, you know, Alexas in every single room of our house, you know, all these things because we're distrustful of technology.
[25:14.630 --> 25:18.710]  And I think, you know, my little Ido here is also similar.
[25:19.630 --> 25:20.590]  Ido, do you like robots?
[25:21.550 --> 25:22.810]  You have to say it out loud.
[25:23.290 --> 25:23.730]  No.
[25:24.030 --> 25:24.370]  Okay.
[25:25.710 --> 25:26.250]  Smart kids.
[25:26.770 --> 25:31.430]  I mean, and the other thing is, I mean, think about robots and where they are, for God's sakes.
[25:31.570 --> 25:34.510]  I mean, my Roomba continually gets stuck on the edge of my stairs.
[25:34.710 --> 25:40.430]  I mean, we're going to be trusting robots to have some kind of judgment about lethal force.
[25:40.930 --> 25:54.070]  And, I mean, it really sounds like some kind of new Black Mirror episode in the making where the notion or the idea of self-preservation of a robot can override a human life.
[25:54.070 --> 26:02.130]  I mean, this is just, you know, ridiculous science fiction like stuff from the 50s and 60s that we're seeing play out now in 2022.
[26:02.670 --> 26:02.810]  Yep.
[26:03.210 --> 26:03.410]  Okay.
[26:03.510 --> 26:05.230]  Not 60, 65.
[26:05.230 --> 26:05.610]  Sorry.
[26:05.990 --> 26:06.650]  Oh, okay.
[26:06.790 --> 26:06.970]  All right.
[26:07.050 --> 26:07.470]  Very good.
[26:07.730 --> 26:08.070]  Good point.
[26:08.170 --> 26:08.370]  All right.
[26:08.710 --> 26:09.610]  Kyle, go ahead.
[26:10.130 --> 26:22.430]  Oh, I just was imagining the logical extent of a lot of this, which is a sort of blameless environment where humans controlling them aren't necessarily at fault.
[26:22.710 --> 26:30.210]  It's a situation where the robot becomes the excuse or the reason.
[26:30.210 --> 26:50.230]  And it is that it went haywire or there was some error or malfunction or the person didn't treat the robot the way the robot needed to be treated that they, that is, you know, something that humans should inherently understand now and all of that, those sort of etiquettes.
[26:50.950 --> 27:02.790]  It is, it's a whole different landscape of thinking about an authority that can be wielded against citizenry.
[27:03.170 --> 27:03.430]  Go ahead, Rob.
[27:04.690 --> 27:27.810]  Yeah, and talking of technologists who have various feelings on this, I got into this story through a person called Kat Scott who works with openrobotics.org and other such things and knows this stuff and has expressed the interest in anyone who wants to help put together a letter to the San Francisco Board of Supervisors.
[27:28.050 --> 27:32.770]  So, you can find Kat Scott if you're interested in that at kscottz on Twitter.
[27:32.930 --> 27:42.650]  That's kscottz on Twitter or on mastodon at kscottz at sfba.social.
[27:42.990 --> 27:49.070]  You know, I'm wondering if cops are going to be moving into using robots aggressively.
[27:49.070 --> 27:51.130]  I wonder if criminals will do the same.
[27:51.570 --> 27:57.750]  You know, have a robot rob a bank or steal things from a house or do God knows what else.
[27:58.330 --> 28:06.090]  It's, I mean, it's funny but it's also really scary because there are people who are being paid to figure these things out right now.
[28:06.530 --> 28:07.410]  Gila, it looks like you have something.
[28:07.910 --> 28:29.110]  Well, I was thinking about robots, drones, where the line is and yeah, will there be some time where a robot is robbing a bank and another robot comes in to stop it and then the whole bank blows up because the robot like this does not lead anywhere good.
[28:29.690 --> 28:32.930]  I can't, is there ever a good sentence that starts with robots?
[28:35.030 --> 28:35.570]  Yeah.
[28:35.930 --> 28:41.570]  There's some good songs that start with robots but I don't know if there's any good scenarios that start with robots.
[28:42.390 --> 28:45.010]  But here's something interesting that this might make people feel better.
[28:45.250 --> 29:00.850]  If you're dealing with any kind of financial issues this holiday season, if you're worried about where your next check is going to come from, et cetera, et cetera, or how you've managed yourself over the past year or bunch of years or lifetime, the Alexa,
[29:01.370 --> 29:08.330]  Amazon Alexa, what we all consider it to be, we just talked about it now, we all consider it to be this incredible thing, big success.
[29:08.330 --> 29:08.770]  No.
[29:09.210 --> 29:15.450]  The headline reads, Amazon Alexa deemed colossal failure following $10 billion loss.
[29:15.830 --> 29:17.750]  $10 billion loss.
[29:17.930 --> 29:24.430]  They say in the first quarter of this year alone, Alexa lost $3 billion.
[29:25.050 --> 29:26.850]  I don't know how that's even possible.
[29:27.010 --> 29:31.070]  What is Alexa doing that's losing $3 billion in a single quarter?
[29:32.530 --> 29:35.410]  Apparently, they wanted Alexa to be you.
[29:35.530 --> 29:38.910]  I'm sorry for everyone who's I'm triggering by saying this so many times.
[29:39.210 --> 29:43.450]  But what they wanted Alexa to be able to do was get people to buy more things.
[29:43.730 --> 29:47.150]  And apparently it's not doing that so much, but it's doing something else.
[29:47.150 --> 29:48.550]  It's helping people in various ways.
[29:48.630 --> 29:49.510]  Yes, it's spying on you too.
[29:49.590 --> 29:50.010]  I know that.
[29:50.150 --> 29:50.650]  It's bad.
[29:50.670 --> 29:51.050]  It's evil.
[29:51.290 --> 29:53.550]  Yeah, we're going to put that aside for the moment.
[29:53.670 --> 29:59.010]  But what people are using it for, they find to be rather convenient.
[29:59.010 --> 30:04.330]  You know, playing radio stations or telling you the temperature or God knows what else.
[30:04.570 --> 30:07.350]  They're getting these things to do, tying it into your house and turning on the lights.
[30:08.730 --> 30:11.490]  But somehow it's a colossal failure.
[30:11.930 --> 30:15.310]  Something we just assumed was working isn't.
[30:15.350 --> 30:22.650]  I don't know what they're going to do with it if they just make it suddenly stop working and everybody has paid for these things and they'll be upset.
[30:22.850 --> 30:24.870]  And plus, they're not the only one out there.
[30:25.170 --> 30:27.570]  You know, there's all kinds of other personal assistant devices.
[30:28.310 --> 30:29.590]  You guys have any thoughts on this?
[30:31.190 --> 30:37.130]  Yeah, I mean, the big thing for them is that from the beginning they wanted this to be a tool that would bring in money.
[30:37.370 --> 30:39.610]  People would shop with the Alexa device.
[30:39.850 --> 30:56.630]  But as we reported early on in Alexa's life, we reported on this program about stories like when a kid, you know, ordered an expensive dollhouse, unbeknownst to their parents, and other mishaps were happening where Alexa was buying things that the owners didn't necessarily want.
[30:56.750 --> 30:58.510]  So they had to dial all that stuff back.
[30:58.510 --> 31:04.430]  But in the meantime, yeah, it is a convenient thing for switching the lights on and off, listening to music, podcasts, whatever.
[31:05.510 --> 31:12.050]  And, you know, they basically put their eggs in a basket that no longer really exists.
[31:12.230 --> 31:21.470]  And it also connects to other issues with the quality of shopping on the Amazon site, which is not what it was five, six years ago when these things were new.
[31:21.890 --> 31:31.990]  So it's very interesting because I think the $10 billion loss is basically them calculating like what they're paying people on the Alexa side of their operation.
[31:32.870 --> 31:37.610]  It's not like they poured money down something that didn't happen.
[31:37.950 --> 31:41.670]  It's just what it costs on their end to keep this thing running.
[31:41.850 --> 31:45.190]  And it is an interesting question whether they will continue to do so.
[31:45.450 --> 31:47.350]  Alex, you now have two kids with you.
[31:47.510 --> 31:52.470]  I'm just wondering what the most expensive thing either one of them has ordered without your knowledge from Alexa.
[31:53.310 --> 31:54.470]  any other kind of device.
[31:54.750 --> 31:56.670]  Or do they even speak to these devices?
[31:57.610 --> 31:59.350]  No, they don't because we don't have them.
[31:59.510 --> 32:01.150]  We don't have an Alexa device, do we, Sasha?
[32:01.310 --> 32:02.410]  We don't trust them.
[32:02.610 --> 32:03.070]  That's right.
[32:03.190 --> 32:04.010]  Wow, okay.
[32:04.310 --> 32:04.930]  Good for you.
[32:05.490 --> 32:05.690]  Right.
[32:05.770 --> 32:06.610]  Why don't we trust them?
[32:07.150 --> 32:09.050]  Because they scan your whole house.
[32:09.410 --> 32:10.230]  Yeah, that's right.
[32:10.430 --> 32:13.490]  Yeah, there's something that they're always recording the ambient noise, right?
[32:13.650 --> 32:14.050]  Yeah.
[32:14.150 --> 32:15.810]  Yeah, we don't want that.
[32:16.050 --> 32:24.030]  But these kids have ordered things, mostly video games on the PS4 that I've had to unwind with Sony.
[32:24.290 --> 32:31.290]  Well, Call of Duty wrote Modern Warfare 2 was $76, so it probably was the most expensive game.
[32:31.310 --> 32:33.630]  Yeah, well, but we decided to buy that one.
[32:33.850 --> 32:40.090]  You know, that wasn't one that wasn't an unauthorized transaction like your little brother has engaged in recently.
[32:40.530 --> 32:43.850]  But yeah, most of these kids have been just buying video games.
[32:44.530 --> 32:56.870]  But to go back to this whole issue of Alexa being a failure when it comes to purchasing things, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but it just seems like it's really badly designed to purchase things.
[32:57.030 --> 32:59.070]  I mean, it's a sound-based device.
[32:59.310 --> 33:00.930]  There's nothing visual about it.
[33:01.110 --> 33:04.270]  You want to see the thing that you're buying before you say buy it.
[33:04.350 --> 33:11.390]  I mean, I understand wanting to re-up your toilet paper or your paper towels, but, you know, that's something that you can just do automatically on Amazon.
[33:11.390 --> 33:18.190]  Amazon, it just seems like it was perhaps a poorly thought-out business plan to capitalize on that.
[33:18.270 --> 33:27.410]  I intentionally make sure that any kind of account is not linked to it because, you know, if you just happen to say that you want to buy something, it might buy it for you.
[33:27.730 --> 33:28.790]  I don't want that.
[33:29.010 --> 33:31.930]  You know, if I want to buy something, yeah, you know, I know how to do it online.
[33:32.430 --> 33:40.170]  I can ask Alexa for advice or details or things like that, but I would not want to have Alexa just go out how to make a purchase.
[33:40.330 --> 33:41.570]  That just seems unwise.
[33:41.930 --> 33:42.230]  Yes, Gila?
[33:42.690 --> 33:53.170]  I think there's also an interesting question about what the point of Alexa devices is and why it's managed to lose $10 billion, which is just a staggering sum of money.
[33:53.230 --> 33:57.050]  It's not like Alexa went and invested with FTX and lost $10 billion.
[33:57.790 --> 33:58.290]  See?
[33:58.450 --> 33:58.790]  Callback.
[33:58.890 --> 33:59.170]  It's good.
[33:59.570 --> 33:59.910]  Yeah.
[34:00.210 --> 34:01.050]  But, thank you.
[34:01.330 --> 34:07.730]  If you have an Alexa pillar, if you have an Alexa ball, if you have an Alexa dot, great.
[34:08.890 --> 34:19.610]  And I think the question is, do they want you to be buying things or do they want to be inextricably linked into the daily lives of so many of their customers?
[34:19.610 --> 34:36.610]  Because I think on that particular metric, it's been a massive success to the point where if we are on vacation and I want to know what it's like outside, and I will say, Echo, what's the weather, and stop, Echo, stop.
[34:37.610 --> 34:38.750]  Wait, what just happened?
[34:39.050 --> 34:55.250]  I accidentally asked it what the weather was, and it was about to start talking, and but the thing is, I'm so used to asking this device in my home what the weather is, I am now incapable of finding it out from any other place, and we have been in hotel rooms in other cities,
[34:55.370 --> 35:00.190]  and I'm like, I don't know what's happening outside, and I can't ask the device in my room.
[35:00.410 --> 35:01.550]  Can't you look out the window?
[35:03.450 --> 35:07.250]  Yeah, I can look out the window, I can see it's sunny, do I know what the temperature is?
[35:07.370 --> 35:07.750]  No.
[35:10.170 --> 35:12.410]  That's why you open the window, and then you find out.
[35:12.470 --> 35:15.230]  In a hotel where the windows don't open.
[35:15.290 --> 35:23.070]  Okay, then you call downstairs to the concierge and ask them what the weather is, and they'll be annoyed that you're asking or you're wasting their time, but at least you'll get an answer.
[35:23.430 --> 35:35.850]  But I think that's the thing, I think that the sense of how intrinsically linked so many of us are to these devices now for better or for worse, but do I want to get a pair of echo glasses?
[35:36.830 --> 35:39.270]  I just came up with an idea based on what you're saying.
[35:39.710 --> 35:45.210]  Hotel Alexas, every room has one built in, and you can just have a dialogue.
[35:45.470 --> 35:49.350]  You know, maybe you're in a hotel room, you have nothing to do, you have a nice friend to talk to while you're there.
[35:49.730 --> 35:50.770]  You can play Jeopardy.
[35:50.890 --> 35:57.770]  It's not as pathetic as it sounds, and you don't actually have the device, it's like in the walls or something, watching your every move.
[35:58.270 --> 35:58.670]  Huh?
[35:58.890 --> 36:00.130]  That could sell.
[36:00.130 --> 36:02.790]  They're in vehicles, I think, as well now.
[36:03.830 --> 36:04.210]  Yeah, they are.
[36:04.290 --> 36:05.130]  They are in vehicles as well.
[36:05.410 --> 36:06.190]  Alex, are you okay?
[36:06.270 --> 36:08.930]  Your younger kid is smacking you in the face, full force.
[36:09.070 --> 36:10.410]  Is there something going on we should know about?
[36:10.870 --> 36:11.890]  I deserved it.
[36:11.990 --> 36:12.410]  That's it.
[36:12.450 --> 36:13.750]  That's all I can say about that.
[36:13.970 --> 36:15.090]  Patience, I deserved it.
[36:15.230 --> 36:16.470]  Now he has a fist clenched.
[36:16.890 --> 36:17.930]  What's going on over there?
[36:18.710 --> 36:21.870]  There's some animosity that I'm seeing brewing in your household.
[36:23.170 --> 36:27.830]  Okay, well, here's another story that is kind of of interest from the Daily Dot.
[36:30.130 --> 36:39.670]  It seems WikiLeaks website is coming apart at the seams with more and more of the organization's content unavailable without explanation.
[36:39.670 --> 36:42.910]  I just tried going there myself and I got a 502 bad gateway.
[36:44.050 --> 36:51.770]  WikiLeaks technical issues, they've been ongoing for months, they've gotten worse in recent weeks as increasingly larger portions of its website no longer function.
[36:51.950 --> 37:02.030]  Even attempting to visit WikiLeaks.org is a gamble in itself, often producing the very 502 message that I experienced today, which indicates an error was detected on the website's server.
[37:02.630 --> 37:05.810]  When the website does become available, problems still abound.
[37:05.910 --> 37:15.450]  The main banner on WikiLeaks, which includes the organization's logo, as well as links to subdomains such as the About page, has been entirely missing since earlier this month.
[37:15.450 --> 37:22.790]  A similar banner at the bottom of the page, which once showed links to sites for Bitcoin and the Tor project, is now gone as well.
[37:22.990 --> 37:31.110]  A search bar that once included, once scoured the site for information, also appears to no longer work, and instead redirects users to the home page.
[37:31.250 --> 37:35.690]  But the biggest issue relates to WikiLeaks' entire purpose, leaks.
[37:36.210 --> 37:40.830]  Many of the group's leaks have either vanished or become inaccessible to the public.
[37:41.130 --> 37:45.330]  Of the seven leaks highlighted on the home page, three produce no content.
[37:45.630 --> 37:51.190]  Two of those redirect to error pages, while the third merely sends users back to the home page.
[37:51.410 --> 37:57.010]  Now, some of the organization's most prominent leaks have also been affected.
[37:57.270 --> 38:05.490]  A cache of more than one million emails from hacking team released in 2015, the now defunct Italian surveillance vendor, they're all gone.
[38:05.710 --> 38:11.250]  An archive of tens of thousands of emails from former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's private email, inaccessible.
[38:11.610 --> 38:21.010]  The Democratic National Committee emails provided to WikiLeaks ahead of the 2016 election by Russian state entities posing as rogue hackers, also missing.
[38:21.610 --> 38:34.190]  Although WikiLeaks long boasted that it released more than 10 million documents in 10 years, at current, less than 3,000 documents remain accessible, according to an analysis by the Daily Dot of the website's leaks archive.
[38:34.490 --> 38:39.970]  The issues have become so apparent that supporters of the group are now voicing concerns across social media.
[38:40.030 --> 38:43.910]  It's even being read over a New York City radio station, according to this article.
[38:44.110 --> 38:53.410]  In a post on the WikiLeaks subreddit over the weekend, one user complained that every search request made on the website produced an error message.
[38:53.630 --> 38:55.290]  The site is completely down for me.
[38:55.350 --> 38:57.930]  Another responded, all I get is a 502 bad gateway error.
[38:58.250 --> 39:05.330]  And despite similar complaints on Twitter, many of which tag WikiLeaks' account, the organization has failed to publicly address any of the issues.
[39:05.810 --> 39:11.130]  WikiLeaks did not respond to a request for comment from the Daily Dot over Twitter direct message.
[39:11.470 --> 39:15.570]  And even organizations tied to WikiLeaks appear to be struggling.
[39:15.750 --> 39:25.090]  The website for Defend WikiLeaks, a group that raised funds for the legal defense of WikiLeaks in prison founder Julian Assange, has now been taken over by a Vietnamese sports blog.
[39:25.810 --> 39:26.650]  No kidding.
[39:26.990 --> 39:41.330]  The website for the Courage Foundation, which similarly raised funds for whistleblowers and journalists including Assange, Chelsea Manning, and Edward Snowden, was also taken over in the past week and transformed into a Japanese blog selling knockoff designer merchandise.
[39:42.150 --> 39:45.350]  The domain now shows nothing more than a blank page.
[39:47.270 --> 39:51.010]  So, yeah, rather, rather sad.
[39:53.510 --> 40:03.150]  And according to an update to this story, after this story was published, the websites for both the Courage Foundation and Defend WikiLeaks were taken offline.
[40:03.470 --> 40:10.390]  The Twitter account for the Courage Foundation also appears to have removed the link to its website from its bio in recent days.
[40:10.730 --> 40:18.010]  So, rather disturbing, I think, because WikiLeaks was, you know, a major part of the 2010s.
[40:18.530 --> 40:25.010]  And like it or hate it, having it disappear, that doesn't sound healthy to me.
[40:25.130 --> 40:25.690]  Rob, do you have something?
[40:26.630 --> 40:36.170]  Yeah, I mean, the WikiLeaks definitely had its important part to play in past history, but the writing has been kind of on the wall for this.
[40:36.590 --> 40:42.450]  WikiLeaks has published, for many years, they've published an Onion link where you can contact WikiLeaks via Tor.
[40:43.250 --> 40:51.150]  And that link has been a dead link for many years now, with no indication that they were looking to put it back up.
[40:51.370 --> 40:54.570]  And WikiLeaks, their purpose used to be leaks.
[40:54.790 --> 40:56.610]  The point of that site used to be leaks.
[40:56.790 --> 41:09.430]  But as anyone who follows WikiLeaks on their official social media, like their Twitter account knows, WikiLeaks nowadays is basically just an organization that posts again and again and again how bad the situation is for Julian Assange.
[41:10.310 --> 41:11.870]  They haven't done leaking.
[41:12.110 --> 41:20.490]  They've kind of put that aside and become a full-on Julian Assange cheering section.
[41:20.750 --> 41:23.470]  And you can feel one way or the other about that.
[41:23.570 --> 41:28.930]  But the point is, they really kind of abandoned their purpose quite a while ago.
[41:29.110 --> 41:35.210]  And I think the fact that their old leaks have now fallen off the net to a degree.
[41:35.810 --> 41:39.710]  I tried bringing up the site just now and got the 502 bad gateway from NGINX.
[41:40.230 --> 41:45.510]  And it seems like that was just the thing that was going to happen.
[41:45.730 --> 41:49.450]  It seems like they're not interested really in being WikiLeaks anymore.
[41:49.610 --> 41:52.890]  In all fairness, there's not much to cheer about.
[41:53.170 --> 41:56.030]  I mean, when you're targeted by the U.S.
[41:56.130 --> 42:03.610]  government and by so many others throughout the planet, it becomes awfully hard to continue with your original mission.
[42:03.850 --> 42:08.250]  And yeah, it has become a site mostly about what Julian is going through.
[42:08.650 --> 42:11.270]  That's because Julian was pretty much WikiLeaks.
[42:11.630 --> 42:15.230]  And without him, doesn't have the same kind of direction, if any.
[42:15.970 --> 42:20.090]  And attention does need to be drawn to what he's been put through.
[42:20.350 --> 42:35.410]  You know, again, you know, like him or hate him, is what he's going through, you know, being being locked away for years and treated in barbaric conditions and facing God knows what for what he actually did.
[42:35.410 --> 42:36.210]  Is that fair?
[42:36.730 --> 42:39.570]  You know, the whole thing is lousy.
[42:39.650 --> 42:40.770]  It's lousy what's happened to WikiLeaks.
[42:40.970 --> 42:41.410]  Absolutely.
[42:41.770 --> 42:44.490]  But we have to look at why this happened to WikiLeaks.
[42:44.570 --> 42:46.890]  It's not like they said, you know what, we're tired of this.
[42:47.050 --> 42:47.730]  We don't care anymore.
[42:48.310 --> 42:52.610]  They've been subjected to something we cannot even imagine.
[42:53.930 --> 43:02.250]  And, you know, it's anyone with any interest in human rights, I think, would be concerned by this.
[43:02.710 --> 43:06.370]  And it's just sad to see it falling apart.
[43:06.370 --> 43:08.510]  But I think we know why it's falling apart.
[43:08.770 --> 43:12.050]  You know, it's because of the way it's been targeted.
[43:12.270 --> 43:16.030]  And it's a message to anyone else who dares to try such a thing.
[43:16.470 --> 43:18.310]  And it's a very chilling effect.
[43:18.530 --> 43:28.630]  I know, Alex, you don't agree with my perspective on WikiLeaks, but, you know, surely you see that there's a human rights issue here as well.
[43:30.610 --> 43:43.890]  Yeah, and I've written quite a bit about WikiLeaks and Julian Assange for CNN as well, and specifically on the issue of Julian Assange's extradition to the United States.
[43:43.910 --> 43:51.690]  I don't think that the extradition proceeding in the United Kingdom was was necessarily fair.
[43:52.410 --> 44:05.310]  And I, I think that the superseding indictment that the DOJ brought as the superseding indictment is the second indictment that included a mess more charges on this.
[44:05.450 --> 44:13.490]  I think it was something like 14 more charges as opposed to the first one that just dealt with essentially cracking a password hash with a rainbow table.
[44:14.170 --> 44:20.490]  But, you know, it does seem overtly political in a lot of ways, and it especially did during the Trump administration.
[44:20.490 --> 44:42.930]  But my, my thought on this was during the Trump administration, that superseding indictment, and this is what I wrote for CNN, I thought that the superseding indictment was deliberately designed to prevent the extradition of Julian Assange to the United States because the charges were so overtly political that extradition should not have been something should not have been an option from the UK to
[44:42.930 --> 44:43.590]  the United States.
[44:43.790 --> 44:44.970]  But, you know, there you have it.
[44:45.330 --> 44:52.030]  And but putting that aside for a moment, I think there's almost a more fundamental issue.
[44:52.210 --> 45:03.790]  And this is that that tried and true lesson that's become a bit of a platitude on our show lately, which is don't expect any platform controlled by a third party to exist forever.
[45:04.470 --> 45:04.870]  Yeah.
[45:05.170 --> 45:07.550]  So, you know, let this be a lesson to all of you.
[45:07.670 --> 45:14.530]  You shouldn't rely on a single website to host all of your exfiltrated data that you'd like to mine for OSINT purposes.
[45:14.750 --> 45:18.190]  I mean, the only place that you can trust is your local hard drive.
[45:18.730 --> 45:20.850]  And that, too, will eventually...
[45:20.850 --> 45:24.830]  Well, yeah, I'm not sure many people want to trust a local hard drive with everything.
[45:24.970 --> 45:26.390]  Make sure you back that up as well.
[45:27.290 --> 45:34.290]  But the other point, too, that I want to manual is that, you know, sure, it might be sad to see WikiLeaks fall apart.
[45:34.550 --> 45:37.670]  I'm not going to shed a tear for them, frankly.
[45:37.990 --> 45:53.790]  But I think that part of the reason why it's falling apart is that there are other outlets that exist right now that have taken up the helm of this is the place you go to when you want to leak documents, when you want to have them published, when you want to have them curated.
[45:54.050 --> 45:57.910]  And I'm talking particularly about someplace like the Distributed Nile of Secrets.
[45:58.090 --> 46:01.710]  You know, and we've had Emma and Zan on the show multiple times.
[46:01.910 --> 46:02.730]  They've spoken at Hope.
[46:02.890 --> 46:08.170]  They're doing a tremendous job, a really risky job of getting this information out to the public.
[46:08.290 --> 46:19.430]  And I think they're filling a void that WikiLeaks left behind when they became the cheering session for Julian Assange, as Rob aptly put it.
[46:20.670 --> 46:26.270]  I'd like to comment just in general, like, it is unfortunate.
[46:26.270 --> 46:34.350]  I think that we need to remember, kind of along the lines of that, when this emerged, there was not much else.
[46:34.930 --> 46:47.370]  And it did have, it did have a bit of a vacuum for a while when a lot of the peers and manpower, so to speak, changed there.
[46:47.530 --> 46:56.550]  And it really ended up being beholden, you know, kind of under the auspices of one person's benevolence.
[46:56.730 --> 47:02.310]  And I don't think that's very good for a news gathering and a journalistic enterprise.
[47:02.490 --> 47:07.690]  But we've learned quite a bit, I think, since then.
[47:07.890 --> 47:32.410]  And there's been a proliferation of the sorts of tools and things that were very necessary in the modern age to to protect sources, so to speak or do various sorts of reporting and investigating that require you to interact with sources that may not want to be identified or could be at risk if they are,
[47:33.010 --> 47:37.130]  and or if they're whistleblowing, et cetera, et cetera.
[47:37.370 --> 47:49.770]  So, I mean, that proliferation has made the options available for that kind of story to see the light of day are wide.
[47:49.930 --> 48:06.330]  And I think there are a lot of different outlets for different types of stories so that people people have the luxury of maybe choosing one that might handle it or might have have the skill with that kind of story that others might not.
[48:06.450 --> 48:07.170]  It didn't exist.
[48:07.490 --> 48:07.490]  Yeah.
[48:07.590 --> 48:08.710]  And we operate on ourselves.
[48:08.870 --> 48:12.630]  SecureDrop is a great way to leak documents information.
[48:13.090 --> 48:15.550]  In fact, if you go to securedrop.org, you'll find us.
[48:15.690 --> 48:18.070]  I think we're first on the list because we begin with the number 2600.
[48:18.690 --> 48:21.470]  You can you can leak documents securely.
[48:21.690 --> 48:23.290]  So yeah, there's options.
[48:23.510 --> 48:24.270]  There's definitely options.
[48:24.490 --> 48:26.830]  And I'm not particularly sad to see a website disappear.
[48:27.690 --> 48:31.170]  But I am sad and angry at the way a human being has been treated.
[48:31.330 --> 48:32.330]  That's that's my point.
[48:32.470 --> 48:36.310]  And you know, if you hate Julian Assange, understood.
[48:37.130 --> 48:38.350]  That's that's your right.
[48:38.490 --> 48:39.050]  That's your opinion.
[48:39.830 --> 48:42.290]  But if you want him to suffer.
[48:42.890 --> 48:43.750]  Mission accomplished.
[48:43.990 --> 48:44.490]  He suffered.
[48:44.730 --> 48:47.670]  How much more do you want this to go on?
[48:47.790 --> 48:51.250]  How how much do you want to drive that that nail in?
[48:51.670 --> 48:55.430]  You know, at some point, we have to look at ourselves and say, What are we doing?
[48:55.770 --> 48:57.930]  And I think we're well past that point here.
[48:58.110 --> 49:01.850]  You know, it's it's just it's it's unspeakable the way he's been treated.
[49:02.690 --> 49:05.090]  Okay, so any other closing thoughts on this?
[49:05.870 --> 49:08.150]  I would just say I agree with that.
[49:08.370 --> 49:21.030]  I don't I don't necessarily support Julian Assange or what he did or, you know, and frankly, I think that the first indictment of him was for what appeared to be an actionable crime in the United States.
[49:21.610 --> 49:43.210]  But I agree with you, I think that the amount of suffering that the process of this extradition and his custodial requirements over in the United Kingdom, especially have been really, really heinous have been, and I think will be looked back on as one of the more notable stains on the human rights tapestry of the United Kingdom and the United States.
[49:43.290 --> 49:50.730]  And remember what he was saying when he went into the embassy, and everyone was saying, Oh, you're paranoid that the United States is not going to charge you with anything.
[49:51.230 --> 49:55.810]  And he hid in there for years, believing that the United States was was going to charge him with something.
[49:55.950 --> 49:57.170]  And guess what they did?
[49:57.310 --> 49:58.430]  They absolutely did.
[49:58.550 --> 49:58.970]  Go ahead, Rob.
[50:00.130 --> 50:16.030]  Yeah, I mean, I think if had had there been like something crazy, like a public facing trial, which would have let it come to light, what exactly this person deserved for what he did or didn't do beyond a reasonable doubt, then that would be one thing.
[50:16.270 --> 50:20.050]  And you could see somebody being, you know, tried and punished for a crime.
[50:20.910 --> 50:31.810]  And the fact that that hasn't been allowed to happen, it's just, you know, been years off his life without any sort of due process that that we can see or report on, you know, that's a shame.
[50:32.030 --> 50:42.550]  But if any organization like WikiLeaks, or any other organization, for that matter, wants to be a valid thing into the future, it needs to be bigger than any one person.
[50:42.770 --> 50:54.050]  If WikiLeaks wanted to be WikiLeaks for longer than Julian Assange was hanging around, I think the rest of the people, you know, the people that are pushing the buttons on the social media and things like that, and people have been keeping the site up all this time,
[50:54.170 --> 50:55.790]  they could have continued the work.
[50:55.990 --> 51:02.870]  I think that would have honored what WikiLeaks represented far more than just being just becoming a cheering section for one person.
[51:04.610 --> 51:06.830]  Yeah, I can't disagree with that.
[51:06.950 --> 51:12.390]  But again, I think we might be overestimating just how big WikiLeaks actually is.
[51:12.710 --> 51:29.570]  And I think a lot of the, a lot of the enthusiasm has been has been punctured, you know, and it's, it's, it's, it's really hard to, uh, uh, to keep that, um, that rebellious, um, um, a face, you know, when, when, when, when things like this have happened,
[51:29.590 --> 51:36.630]  uh, we can continue this, uh, on off the hook overtime, which will be happening over on YouTube in just a couple of minutes.
[51:36.770 --> 51:44.350]  I did want to say though, on the subject of WikiLeaks and Julian Assange, um, I saw Chelsea Manning on hard talk on BBC's hard talk.
[51:44.430 --> 51:51.970]  That's a half hour program without any commercial breaks where you get hammered and grilled, uh, by, by a journalist.
[51:52.170 --> 51:56.350]  Uh, and, um, he was challenging Chelsea and boy, did she hold her own.
[51:56.790 --> 51:59.970]  It was, it was really one of the most impressive interviews I think I've seen.
[51:59.970 --> 52:03.230]  If you have a chance, uh, go to bbc.co.uk.
[52:03.230 --> 52:05.030]  You can track it down there somewhere.
[52:05.610 --> 52:07.430]  Uh, I'm sure this copy is floating around.
[52:07.550 --> 52:12.650]  Of course, if you get BBC World News, it'll be broadcast on there, uh, every, every few hours, I think.
[52:13.290 --> 52:19.310]  Um, and closing, uh, our email address is OTH at 2600.com.
[52:19.670 --> 52:23.750]  We're off the hook, the show about technology, hacking, privacy, all sorts of things like that.
[52:23.810 --> 52:34.670]  And we broadcast on WBAI where we really hope that you call in to support the station 212-209-2950 or go to the website, give to WBAI.org.
[52:34.830 --> 52:42.930]  That's give the number to WBAI.org and, uh, donate whatever you can to keep community radio alive in New York City.
[52:43.790 --> 52:45.370]  Any closing thoughts from people?
[52:47.550 --> 52:47.910]  No?
[52:48.090 --> 52:48.290]  Okay.
[52:48.950 --> 52:49.950]  Happy Thanksgiving, everybody.
[52:50.110 --> 52:51.690]  We will see you on Overtime in a couple of minutes.
[52:51.930 --> 52:57.430]  Just go to the link on the 2600.com web page or just join us over on channel 2600 on YouTube.
[52:58.330 --> 52:59.050]  Good night.
[56:20.940 --> 56:25.280]  Well, Mark, time to watch the frogs eating the flies.
[56:25.840 --> 56:26.020]  Yep.
[56:26.400 --> 56:28.860]  Then off to the neighbors to watch the paint dry.
[56:29.560 --> 56:32.320]  Mr. Wilson, Mr. Wilson, the trains are coming.
[56:32.640 --> 56:33.480]  The trains are coming.
[56:33.840 --> 56:35.060]  Land sakes.
[56:35.480 --> 56:39.720]  It's the Arts Express pulling into the station with goodies for all of us.
[56:39.840 --> 56:41.540]  Well, it's about time.
[56:41.780 --> 56:44.400]  Lookie, there's presents for everyone.
[56:44.700 --> 56:47.960]  Look, Pa, it's a preview of the latest indie feature.
[56:48.280 --> 56:52.920]  And more, it's an interview with a major Broadway theater director.
[56:53.160 --> 56:57.400]  And I got some shiny new film reviews from film festivals all over the world.
[56:57.600 --> 57:03.100]  And here's cutting-edge poetry from the country's most progressive poets.
[57:03.240 --> 57:05.340]  Oh, sweet Lord, it's a miracle.
[57:05.640 --> 57:06.520]  No, it's not.
[57:06.720 --> 57:09.340]  It's Arts Express with host Prairie Miller.
[57:09.820 --> 57:16.520]  That's Arts Express with host Prairie Miller at our new day and time, Wednesdays at 9 p.m.
[57:17.060 --> 57:19.100]  on WBAI-FM.
[57:28.190 --> 57:29.310]  Hi, listeners.
[57:29.750 --> 57:34.790]  Don't want to use the website or the call center to contribute to WBAI?
[57:34.930 --> 57:35.810]  That's okay.
[57:36.170 --> 57:47.570]  Please feel free to send your check or money order to WBAI, third floor, 388 Atlantic Avenue, Brooklyn, New York, 11217.
[57:47.810 --> 57:53.910]  Please make a check or money order out to Pacifica-WBAI.
[57:53.930 --> 57:59.750]  We thank you for your donation and hope that you will spread the word and tell your friends.
[57:59.930 --> 58:01.630]  And please keep on listening.
[58:01.630 --> 58:02.130]  Thank you.
[00:00.000 --> 00:04.340]  And welcome to everybody over on YouTube, where we are now, actually.
[00:04.800 --> 00:06.820]  It's off-the-hook overtime.
[00:07.380 --> 00:08.540]  Looks like I made it.
[00:08.960 --> 00:11.200]  Kyle, you're making adjustments.
[00:11.360 --> 00:12.260]  Is everything okay?
[00:12.620 --> 00:16.320]  Yes, let me just double-check that while you're introducing everyone, but I'm here.
[00:16.420 --> 00:22.120]  Yeah, we've done some enhancements, so hopefully things will work even better than they've been working over the past few weeks.
[00:23.080 --> 00:25.980]  Rob, Gila, did you make it okay from Skypland?
[00:26.680 --> 00:28.180]  We did, yes.
[00:28.180 --> 00:29.700]  Yes, we did.
[00:29.900 --> 00:32.100]  Okay, and Alex, I see you just landed in your chair.
[00:32.560 --> 00:33.380]  You okay, too?
[00:33.480 --> 00:34.000]  You make it back?
[00:34.300 --> 00:37.300]  It was a difficult transition, but I'm here.
[00:37.740 --> 00:38.960]  All right, well, welcome to Overtime, everybody.
[00:39.320 --> 00:45.620]  This is the program where we continue talking about the things we just talked about on Off the Hook, as well as take your listener phone calls.
[00:45.720 --> 00:46.960]  Please, don't call yet.
[00:47.200 --> 00:48.740]  Wait for us to give out the phone number.
[00:49.620 --> 00:51.000]  We're very quiet on YouTube.
[00:51.420 --> 00:52.780]  Are we very quiet on YouTube?
[00:53.040 --> 00:53.240]  Okay.
[00:53.360 --> 00:54.300]  We're very quiet on YouTube.
[00:54.400 --> 00:55.020]  Very quiet, okay.
[00:55.020 --> 00:56.120]  This should be changing rapidly.
[00:56.120 --> 00:57.640]  It should be changing very soon.
[00:57.640 --> 00:58.460]  It is, actually.
[00:58.560 --> 00:58.860]  Did it change?
[00:58.880 --> 01:00.960]  Just as you said that, it kicked up a bit.
[01:00.960 --> 01:04.860]  All right, so should I re-say everything I'd said before for the people who weren't listening to Quiet Mode?
[01:05.000 --> 01:07.540]  This was why I went ahead and checked that.
[01:07.620 --> 01:09.920]  Yeah, we talk quietly at first, then we get louder.
[01:10.140 --> 01:11.340]  That's just the way we are.
[01:13.040 --> 01:16.200]  We've made some adjustments, so levels might fluctuate.
[01:16.320 --> 01:20.960]  And if you're listening to this in the future, we're going to, of course, bring that volume up of what you just didn't hear.
[01:20.960 --> 01:27.240]  Think of it as a slow fade in as you join us here in the Overtime Lounge.
[01:27.480 --> 01:29.340]  Yeah, Overtime Lounge.
[01:29.460 --> 01:30.360]  That's what we want.
[01:31.260 --> 01:35.840]  Okay, so anything else happen that's of interest, Gila?
[01:35.840 --> 01:40.420]  Well, I had a thought pursuant to the conversation we were having at the end of the show.
[01:40.620 --> 01:54.480]  I will say that my own personal feelings about Julian Assange are strong enough that I have made a decision not to speak about him on the airwaves because I don't want to risk an FCC fine.
[01:55.160 --> 01:58.840]  Okay, well, you're not on the airwaves now, unless somebody's rebroadcasting us.
[01:59.000 --> 02:00.720]  That's why I'm going to say this now.
[02:00.720 --> 02:05.040]  If you're rebroadcasting us, anyone, I guess you have to have your finger on some kind of a button.
[02:05.780 --> 02:11.220]  And hopefully you have some kind of a delay system, because occasionally people, you know, speak from the heart.
[02:11.360 --> 02:13.300]  And you can't do that on FM radio.
[02:13.700 --> 02:15.880]  Give me those sweet, sweet seven seconds.
[02:15.880 --> 02:36.740]  I think that what I'm saying to Rob during the break, that if we have learned anything in the past seven years in this country, it is that when something goes from being a concept or an idea to a cult of personality, we lose, number one, we lose a lot.
[02:36.840 --> 02:38.520]  Number two, it becomes very, very dangerous.
[02:38.520 --> 02:42.480]  And that I absolutely agree with Rob.
[02:42.740 --> 02:52.700]  I mean, I agree with Rob on most things, but I think that when it ceased being about leaks and began being the Julian Assange show, it became very complicated and dangerous.
[02:52.960 --> 03:11.460]  And again, shout out to Emma Best, occasional show guest, who has been tracking on their Twitter over the course of the last year, the fact that the WikiLeaks leaker gateway submission form has been down, has been down since at least March.
[03:12.780 --> 03:30.280]  And yes, I have a lot of feelings about this whole thing, but yeah, I mean, is there a point where something ceases to be about what it was about and becomes about one person?
[03:30.280 --> 03:37.480]  I think that is where things become dangerous, complex, and less multidimensional than they had been.
[03:37.760 --> 03:39.020]  Yeah, no, I hear that.
[03:39.180 --> 03:40.820]  And you certainly could have said all that on the radio.
[03:41.480 --> 03:42.660]  And I don't disagree.
[03:42.840 --> 03:44.160]  I don't disagree with that at all.
[03:45.080 --> 03:49.340]  My only issue here is the human rights aspect of it all.
[03:49.480 --> 03:57.200]  I hate seeing people suffer, even if it's somebody I disagree with, even somebody that, you know, some people might think did great harm.
[03:57.200 --> 04:01.220]  Okay, you know, that's a valid opinion that many people have.
[04:01.720 --> 04:04.120]  But how long?
[04:04.400 --> 04:08.520]  How long does somebody suffer for these actions?
[04:09.480 --> 04:13.380]  That's what bothers me, because so many of us don't seem to care anymore.
[04:19.610 --> 04:24.690]  To completely change the subject, there are a couple of anniversaries that I really want to give a shout-out to.
[04:24.690 --> 04:31.050]  I didn't do this on the air, but, you know, the first one is, today is what's known as Doctor Who Day.
[04:31.370 --> 04:33.110]  It's the 59th anniversary of Doctor Who.
[04:33.530 --> 04:36.010]  Wow, that really did change the tone incredibly.
[04:36.210 --> 04:37.110]  Doctor Who Day, okay.
[04:37.610 --> 04:37.930]  Yes, yes.
[04:38.030 --> 04:39.690]  No, it's a spiritual occasion for me.
[04:39.770 --> 04:41.150]  I take it quite seriously.
[04:41.370 --> 04:45.370]  But yesterday, more of interest to, I think, our listeners.
[04:45.970 --> 04:51.610]  Yesterday was the 35th anniversary of the Max Headroom broadcast signal intrusion incident.
[04:51.810 --> 04:52.790]  You guys know about this?
[04:52.790 --> 04:54.550]  This is Captain Midnight?
[04:54.750 --> 04:56.070]  Or is it not somebody else?
[04:56.290 --> 04:57.930]  It is not Captain Midnight.
[04:58.090 --> 05:00.370]  Captain Midnight was somebody else who I think was before this.
[05:00.850 --> 05:19.250]  But on November 22nd, 1987, two stations in Chicago found their signals interrupted by a person unknown wearing a rubber Max Headroom mask, as was the style at the time, and saying all kinds of things and doing all kinds of shenanigans.
[05:19.250 --> 05:22.430]  And there doesn't appear to have been any rhyme or reason.
[05:22.590 --> 05:23.830]  They weren't putting out a message.
[05:23.990 --> 05:33.570]  They were just having a lot of fun, having a good time, and interrupting the broadcast signals of TV stations, which was a major get at the time.
[05:33.650 --> 05:34.430]  It still would be now.
[05:34.530 --> 05:35.770]  But it was an amazing hack.
[05:35.890 --> 05:37.230]  The perpetrators were never caught.
[05:37.230 --> 05:43.750]  And I encourage everyone to check out the footage, check out the Wikipedia article at Max Headroom Signal Hijacking.
[05:44.590 --> 05:46.750]  It's just a lot of fun to learn about.
[05:46.970 --> 05:50.030]  And I think it's worth marking the anniversary.
[05:50.430 --> 05:53.350]  When you were talking about Doctor Who Day, though, I was thinking about it earlier.
[05:53.370 --> 05:55.430]  We were talking about police robots.
[05:57.490 --> 06:08.350]  Because I was thinking, when we're talking about police robots and robots that are theoretically going to be sent in to shoot people, I was thinking about Daleks, and it was an appropriate thing to think about on Doctor Who Day.
[06:08.450 --> 06:08.850]  There you go.
[06:08.910 --> 06:09.750]  We've come full circle.
[06:09.750 --> 06:10.030]  Wow.
[06:10.310 --> 06:10.550]  Okay.
[06:10.550 --> 06:11.250]  All right.
[06:11.750 --> 06:19.090]  From killer robots to Doctor Who to WikiLeaks and beyond, and the failure of Amazon's Alexa.
[06:20.310 --> 06:21.210]  And Max Headroom.
[06:21.350 --> 06:22.330]  Yeah, Max Headroom.
[06:22.430 --> 06:26.550]  And Max Headroom, who was actually interrupting a Doctor Who episode to bring it all back together.
[06:28.650 --> 06:30.770]  So, we haven't talked about Twitter at all.
[06:30.970 --> 06:36.150]  The craziness continues, with Elon Musk just posting random things.
[06:36.150 --> 06:38.030]  And I don't know.
[06:38.170 --> 06:39.910]  It just seems sad right now.
[06:39.970 --> 06:43.930]  I don't think it's falling apart as quickly as some people predicted it would.
[06:44.530 --> 06:50.590]  And I think Mastodon has definitely been talked about quite a bit, but has shown its limitations.
[06:50.590 --> 06:58.110]  I know we were having tremendous issues over at 2600, getting followers to count.
[06:58.110 --> 07:13.710]  And it's just funny because, you know, if you look at the back and forth dialogue that was going on, where I think three people after two days were following 2600 after the address had been posted, there are all these people.
[07:13.710 --> 07:18.710]  And this happens when you criticize Google, it happens when you criticize Elon Musk amongst certain crowds.
[07:19.650 --> 07:23.210]  It's got to be a user error because the technology works perfectly.
[07:23.370 --> 07:29.990]  And the technology clearly doesn't work perfectly because, you know, a change that you make takes several hours for it to happen.
[07:30.110 --> 07:34.430]  Or, you know, if you join somebody in a different instance, it can take a day.
[07:35.230 --> 07:37.990]  And these are problems, but they're growing pains.
[07:38.210 --> 07:39.590]  It's what we expect.
[07:40.310 --> 07:46.630]  But to, you know, to take on the high and mighty attitude that, oh, you're doing it wrong.
[07:47.090 --> 07:48.270]  I see that a lot.
[07:48.450 --> 07:53.910]  I see that being directed at people who are trying to catch up and trying to figure things out.
[07:54.210 --> 07:55.390]  It turns them off.
[07:55.530 --> 07:57.350]  It makes them look elsewhere.
[07:57.530 --> 07:58.830]  It makes them not want to be a part of this.
[07:58.930 --> 08:00.690]  So we all have to be patient.
[08:00.810 --> 08:04.110]  We all have to be explaining things because Mastodon is not as simple as Twitter.
[08:04.710 --> 08:05.970]  It's a great service.
[08:06.110 --> 08:09.050]  It can do all kinds of cool things, but it needs improvement.
[08:09.230 --> 08:15.510]  It needs a lot more, which hopefully it will get with a lot more support and a lot more outlets.
[08:15.950 --> 08:19.210]  So that's what I've noticed over the past week.
[08:21.210 --> 08:22.270]  Yeah, you have to...
[08:23.310 --> 08:28.270]  Sorry, to give out that address on the air, it's at 2600 at mastodon.online.
[08:28.690 --> 08:32.030]  And where right now there appears to be 835 followers.
[08:32.990 --> 08:33.990]  Of 2600.
[08:34.690 --> 08:35.090]  Yes.
[08:35.310 --> 08:35.530]  Okay.
[08:35.730 --> 08:36.030]  All right.
[08:36.130 --> 08:36.650]  And counting.
[08:36.890 --> 08:37.370]  Well, okay.
[08:37.490 --> 08:38.350]  That's good.
[08:39.430 --> 08:45.330]  Yeah, it's weird because just to get an email from them can take almost a full day.
[08:45.650 --> 08:48.050]  Just to get, you know, a verification...
[08:48.050 --> 08:54.350]  So that they know that you're requesting an account and so that you can verify the account and whatever else they need you to do.
[08:54.670 --> 08:55.670]  They're swamped.
[08:55.750 --> 08:56.470]  They're overloaded.
[08:56.550 --> 08:58.770]  And that's to be expected when something like this happens.
[08:59.350 --> 09:02.850]  Um, but you know, I'm hoping, I'm hoping to see this really grow and flourish.
[09:02.870 --> 09:04.610]  It's, it's a pretty awesome concept.
[09:06.830 --> 09:13.330]  Um, I did, we had a conversation here last night and I thought I came up with a word, which apparently I didn't.
[09:13.850 --> 09:21.310]  Um, but I was asking about the way that things are done on Mastodon and I said, what is the Fedikit here?
[09:22.130 --> 09:26.010]  Um, and you know, it, it worked in my head.
[09:26.010 --> 09:31.090]  So I very proudly went on my Mastodon account and announced that I had just come up with a new word.
[09:31.570 --> 09:36.850]  Um, and then realized that I wasn't, I hadn't, it was real, but I hadn't heard it from anybody else before.
[09:36.970 --> 09:41.130]  So yes, if you're talking about how things are done on Mastodon, we use the word Fedikit.
[09:42.170 --> 09:42.730]  We do.
[09:42.850 --> 09:43.110]  Okay.
[09:43.250 --> 09:45.030]  Well, that's, that's, I guess, good to know.
[09:45.630 --> 09:46.030]  Fedikit.
[09:46.770 --> 09:47.170]  Wow.
[09:47.690 --> 09:57.570]  Um, so over on Facebook or Meta, as they prefer to be called, uh, they have allegedly fired and, or, uh, I imagine I mean disciplined.
[09:57.750 --> 10:04.570]  It says discipled, uh, over here on this, on this, uh, story from, uh, cshub.com.
[10:04.770 --> 10:15.910]  Um, yeah, uh, allegedly fired and, or discipled or disciplined more than 12 employees for hacking into users, Facebook and Instagram accounts on behalf of hackers.
[10:16.730 --> 10:17.170]  Yeah.
[10:17.410 --> 10:20.650]  It was according to the wall street journal, which broke the story on November 17th.
[10:20.650 --> 10:26.250]  Some of the hacking cases involved bribery with employees being paid thousands of dollars to hack into the accounts.
[10:26.530 --> 10:35.410]  According to an internal investigation into the account hijacking, those fired by Meta included contractors employed at the company's facilities as security guards.
[10:35.550 --> 10:46.630]  They were able to hack into unsuspecting victims accounts after being allowed access to online operations known as oops, capital O capital O PS.
[10:46.630 --> 10:46.770]  Yes.
[10:46.830 --> 10:46.950]  Yes.
[10:47.090 --> 10:54.890]  That's what they call a tool used to, um, help users log back into their accounts after being logged out or forgetting their login details.
[10:55.190 --> 11:07.170]  Now access to oops is, that's just funny to say access to oops is usually heavily regulated with the vast majority of users being unable to access it and having to use Meta's other avenues for account recovery.
[11:07.350 --> 11:15.430]  However, this has led to a rise in so-called cottage industry of intermediaries who charge users thousands of dollars to reset their accounts.
[11:15.430 --> 11:23.030]  I can't tell you how many times we get requests for people to, uh, get back into a Facebook account or to hack into someone else's Facebook account.
[11:23.330 --> 11:27.790]  The whole thing seems a bit silly and crazy, but, uh, here we are.
[11:30.860 --> 11:31.420]  Oops.
[11:31.960 --> 11:32.460]  Oops.
[11:33.440 --> 11:33.860]  Yeah.
[11:34.000 --> 11:46.700]  All the more reason not to, um, put too much, uh, uh, emphasis on any one account and maybe, uh, link it to any one contact, uh, address, uh, linking payment methods.
[11:46.700 --> 11:54.280]  All these things that they want you to do to be, uh, brought into their world and onto this platform, they entangle you in it.
[11:54.480 --> 12:04.020]  If someone other than you gets access to it and you're then, um, at the mercy of, of their whim, uh, whatever that may be.
[12:04.020 --> 12:13.880]  And it could in some cases be really detrimental stuff, really, um, uh, uh, targeted if they're willing to try to bribe people, who knows?
[12:14.040 --> 12:22.600]  Uh, and especially, um, don't be attractive, uh, to, to that, um, on your public facing profiles.
[12:22.600 --> 12:34.340]  Uh, don't, um, put identifiable, um, uh, locations if you can help it and, and, and, uh, belongings, you know, your lifestyle, like, uh, you know, it doesn't belong there.
[12:34.440 --> 12:35.940]  It's a, it's a photo sharing app.
[12:36.060 --> 12:53.700]  I'm thinking specifically of Instagram, but, um, you know, integrating it as like a shopping card and so forth, or, you know, the same thing with like Amazon, uh, purchases and so forth, there's, there's so many different ways if you're not containing this service and,
[12:53.700 --> 13:13.200]  uh, keeping it from other aspects of your life, um, you can really, uh, end up having, uh, one kind of weak link that makes your whole life, everything that you've, you've, uh, entrusted, uh, really kind of come tumbling down as far as reliability or,
[13:13.200 --> 13:14.120]  um, security.
[13:14.120 --> 13:20.840]  And, and it's, it's too much to, to try to, um, live your life at the, at the mercy of.
[13:21.400 --> 13:23.260]  Alex, I see, uh, one of your kids is back.
[13:24.620 --> 13:25.600]  Yeah, that's right.
[13:25.700 --> 13:25.880]  Yeah.
[13:26.200 --> 13:26.400]  Yeah.
[13:26.460 --> 13:27.920]  We've got, uh, Sasha here.
[13:28.040 --> 13:30.980]  Sasha, you, you were, you've got some statistics here, don't you?
[13:31.480 --> 13:31.840]  Yeah.
[13:32.420 --> 13:34.160]  What's the statistic that you have?
[13:34.680 --> 13:36.040]  Um, you mean the ads?
[13:36.300 --> 13:36.960]  No, no.
[13:37.120 --> 13:38.820]  Talking about the timing.
[13:39.300 --> 13:45.720]  You've been talking for one minute and 42 seconds in that one conversation.
[13:46.080 --> 13:47.180]  That was you, Kyle.
[13:47.480 --> 13:49.700]  Sasha was, uh, was timing you.
[13:49.820 --> 13:51.420]  How does it feel being judged by a nine-year-old?
[13:51.840 --> 13:53.960]  Uh, he's, he's nine, right?
[13:54.740 --> 13:55.680]  Yeah, that's right.
[13:55.780 --> 13:56.980]  I don't, I don't want to get my facts wrong.
[13:57.580 --> 14:01.700]  Now, apparently I'm, I'm being timed here as well, but, um.
[14:01.880 --> 14:02.100]  I'm not timing.
[14:02.260 --> 14:03.400]  Oh, you're not timing me now?
[14:03.520 --> 14:04.020]  Okay, good.
[14:04.180 --> 14:05.780]  But he's remembering everything you say.
[14:06.260 --> 14:07.520]  Yeah, he is, actually.
[14:07.520 --> 14:10.240]  I, um, I, I want to ask you a question.
[14:10.400 --> 14:14.460]  This was an insider at, at Facebook slash meta, right?
[14:14.560 --> 14:15.180]  That's what they say.
[14:15.900 --> 14:18.000]  So this is a big problem.
[14:18.340 --> 14:25.140]  I mean, if you recall, this was an issue that had happened, uh, at least twice, I think it was, over at Twitter.
[14:25.780 --> 14:42.960]  And our good friend Mudge, who recently testified in Congress and became a whistleblower about the deficient security controls over at Twitter, had specifically noted in his whistleblowing documentation that he believed that there were agents of foreign powers that were employed within Twitter.
[14:43.280 --> 14:53.460]  You know, maybe some of them didn't sign on for the, uh, you know, the, the extreme Twitter and might've taken the severance over the last, uh, week or so with, with Elon Musk.
[14:53.680 --> 14:55.320]  But yeah, this is a big problem.
[14:55.320 --> 15:04.600]  I think when it comes to platforms, and I doubt that Twitter is the only platform employing some kind of foreign agent of a, uh, of a, of a hostile power.
[15:04.820 --> 15:09.240]  And so that's, uh, this is something I think that needs to be rooted out and figured out.
[15:09.600 --> 15:26.560]  But while we have, uh, somebody here, uh, before his bedtime, I thought it might be interesting to query our special guest here about some of those, uh, YouTube ads that we have been talking about over the last couple of weeks since the, the midterm elections,
[15:26.740 --> 15:26.840]  right?
[15:27.000 --> 15:27.160]  Yeah.
[15:27.440 --> 15:38.540]  So tell me, tell me, tell us, Sasha, about some of the ads that you saw on YouTube here in Pennsylvania when you were, um, you, when you were doing your thing.
[15:38.920 --> 15:39.140]  Yeah.
[15:39.380 --> 15:46.500]  Well, it, so the ads were against, um, this Dr. Oz guy and Fetterman.
[15:46.800 --> 15:53.440]  And what they said about Fetterman was that he was releasing criminals that were doing felony murders.
[15:53.660 --> 15:54.440]  Oh, my God.
[15:54.680 --> 16:04.880]  And then, and then, um, with Doc Oz, they were saying that he was working with that girl that loves her scarves.
[16:05.080 --> 16:06.420]  I don't know who that is.
[16:06.500 --> 16:06.880]  Who is that?
[16:07.080 --> 16:07.580]  I don't know.
[16:07.760 --> 16:12.240]  I think it was the girl that was, like, lying about six feet social distancing.
[16:12.780 --> 16:13.200]  Okay.
[16:13.400 --> 16:14.160]  That makes sense.
[16:14.440 --> 16:14.540]  Yeah.
[16:14.760 --> 16:15.020]  All right.
[16:15.300 --> 16:16.620]  And Dr. Birx.
[16:17.000 --> 16:21.180]  And then they're, like, saying, John Fetterman's too bad for his country.
[16:21.400 --> 16:22.560]  Same thing with Doc Oz.
[16:22.560 --> 16:23.520]  Too radical, right?
[16:23.580 --> 16:23.740]  Yeah.
[16:23.740 --> 16:24.240]  Is that the word?
[16:24.480 --> 16:24.660]  Yeah.
[16:24.980 --> 16:25.240]  Yeah.
[16:25.540 --> 16:25.780]  Yeah.
[16:25.920 --> 16:29.560]  So, and, and what were you watching when these ads were coming up?
[16:29.900 --> 16:34.280]  Um, probably Minecraft videos or trailers.
[16:35.120 --> 16:36.160]  Minecraft videos.
[16:36.400 --> 16:36.680]  Yeah.
[16:36.860 --> 16:47.600]  So, so you're watching a Minecraft video and then all of a sudden you're blasted in the middle of this video with information about Dr. Oz or John Fetterman being too radical.
[16:47.600 --> 16:56.240]  Yeah, and also said, like, not, then it also showed a part where, like, John Fetterman was saying nine of my students were murdered.
[16:56.240 --> 16:59.880]  So I came here and worked side by side with the police.
[17:00.400 --> 17:01.100]  Okay, interesting.
[17:01.260 --> 17:03.580]  So these are the things that you remember from these videos, right?
[17:03.660 --> 17:03.840]  Yeah.
[17:04.260 --> 17:07.300]  I didn't even know that this thing about releasing murderers and whatnot.
[17:07.860 --> 17:09.180]  Uh, and let me ask you this.
[17:09.700 --> 17:11.440]  Since the, you know, the election happened.
[17:11.580 --> 17:11.800]  Yeah.
[17:11.800 --> 17:13.880]  And do you remember when the election happened?
[17:14.100 --> 17:14.360]  Yeah.
[17:14.540 --> 17:16.640]  What did we do that night of the election?
[17:17.160 --> 17:19.180]  Um, we put a sticker on clear side.
[17:19.340 --> 17:21.680]  We put a sticker on the dog's head, but where did we get that sticker?
[17:22.900 --> 17:25.740]  Um, from the, from the voting place.
[17:25.940 --> 17:27.480]  Yeah, we went to the polling place, right?
[17:27.480 --> 17:27.640]  Yeah.
[17:27.640 --> 17:27.960]  And we voted.
[17:28.100 --> 17:29.140]  We voted together, right?
[17:29.360 --> 17:29.620]  Mm-hmm.
[17:29.700 --> 17:32.860]  And you did the whole thing and you saw how the ballot was scanned, right?
[17:32.960 --> 17:33.500]  Do you remember that?
[17:33.580 --> 17:33.680]  Yeah.
[17:33.720 --> 17:34.520]  That whole fiasco?
[17:35.100 --> 17:35.320]  Right.
[17:41.800 --> 17:43.420]  Yeah, and what's it been replaced with?
[17:44.640 --> 17:47.520]  Uh, just regular video game ads.
[17:47.760 --> 17:50.340]  So it goes back to, like, ads that are focusing on kids.
[17:50.560 --> 17:50.820]  Yeah.
[17:51.440 --> 17:52.700]  Not political ads.
[17:52.820 --> 17:52.860]  Yeah.
[17:52.860 --> 17:53.740]  That's interesting.
[17:53.740 --> 17:59.840]  Yeah, but I also see these, like, things that are, like, funny quizzes and it says, am I gay?
[17:59.840 --> 18:00.760]  Are you gay?
[18:00.860 --> 18:01.280]  And all that.
[18:01.520 --> 18:01.800]  Really?
[18:02.020 --> 18:02.180]  Yeah.
[18:02.740 --> 18:03.500]  These are quizzes?
[18:04.100 --> 18:20.120]  No, it's like, so you know how they have, so they have an ad point where you can watch an ad on the top right, and sometimes it says, funny kid quizzes, and it asks, like, a question that says, am I gay?
[18:20.300 --> 18:21.080]  Are you gay?
[18:21.380 --> 18:21.560]  Really?
[18:21.840 --> 18:22.000]  Yeah.
[18:22.340 --> 18:23.500]  I want to see some of you.
[18:23.620 --> 18:24.260]  That's interesting.
[18:24.660 --> 18:25.240]  That's an...
[18:25.240 --> 18:33.920]  This is another interesting revelation that we have here on Off the Hook Overtime about the inappropriate nature of YouTube ads targeting children.
[18:33.920 --> 18:38.000]  Here we are, once again, from quite literally the horse's mouth here.
[18:38.000 --> 18:39.860]  This is very bizarre.
[18:40.060 --> 18:44.780]  I want to pass it back to you guys for comment on this interesting repartee we've had.
[18:45.740 --> 18:52.100]  I mean, wow, that's something to think that you're being exposed to all this, to ads at all.
[18:52.340 --> 18:58.900]  You know, in some countries, it's illegal to subject kids to ads in any way, on TV, on the internet.
[18:59.540 --> 19:02.560]  But apparently here, it's to be expected.
[19:05.160 --> 19:07.120]  Yeah, it's kind of terrifying.
[19:07.340 --> 19:13.120]  And I know we've gotten some additional listener mail on this subject, too.
[19:13.160 --> 19:14.340]  I don't know if you have that handy.
[19:14.600 --> 19:23.320]  But I think some of it was supportive of me and our efforts to try to limit these ads.
[19:23.480 --> 19:29.680]  And so we're nearly as castigating as the mail that you read on the air last week, by the way.
[19:30.540 --> 19:31.520]  Yeah, that was entertaining.
[19:31.940 --> 19:34.080]  I'd love to read that over on Off the Hookover.
[19:34.140 --> 19:38.740]  Whoever it was that sent in that latest mail, it's always difficult for me to turn it up.
[19:38.820 --> 19:39.900]  But I don't know, maybe somebody could.
[19:40.980 --> 19:42.040]  Hey, I have it handy.
[19:42.160 --> 19:42.820]  Rob has it handy.
[19:42.880 --> 19:43.220]  Go ahead, Rob.
[19:44.180 --> 19:51.840]  Yeah, this is from Ray, who says, I missed Alex's comments on YouTube the first time, but I'm another parent shocked by YouTube's non-existent child protection.
[19:52.060 --> 19:55.880]  You can filter content, but if your child logs out, it effectively disables the filter.
[19:55.880 --> 20:03.620]  I was disturbed by some of the stuff my kids were watching, so I uninstalled the YouTube app on my TV, but after two months, my son found the TV app store and reinstalled it.
[20:05.220 --> 20:10.200]  I'm against over-regulation, but YouTube and others need to take some responsibility about their content and children.
[20:11.120 --> 20:14.040]  Sasha, does your dad try to filter the content that you see?
[20:14.500 --> 20:16.080]  And can you figure out how to get around it?
[20:17.120 --> 20:19.100]  Well, we don't know how to filter.
[20:19.520 --> 20:20.220]  That's the thing.
[20:20.260 --> 20:21.480]  Oh, we don't know how to do it, huh?
[20:21.480 --> 20:28.700]  Well, there's, you know, I haven't installed any filters on his content.
[20:28.700 --> 20:32.780]  I haven't really put, you know, strictures in place.
[20:33.120 --> 20:43.600]  However, I think it was Bobcat last week who called in, you know, he was spewing a lot of vitriol last week, but he had some great points.
[20:43.660 --> 20:56.800]  And I think one of the points was to set up a pie hole and essentially redirect, I think it's the DNS to the local pie hole that, uh, and so then you filter all the traffic through that pie hole and it essentially drops all of the advertisements.
[20:57.060 --> 21:05.580]  So I think, um, that's definitely a project, uh, in which I'm going to be investing a little bit of time over the next couple of weeks.
[21:05.680 --> 21:16.720]  And then Sasha can report back, uh, after we have that established about whether or not that pie hole was effective at taking away those ridiculous YouTube ads.
[21:17.820 --> 21:19.140]  Uh, what do you think about that, Sasha?
[21:19.220 --> 21:20.520]  You want to report back in a few weeks?
[21:20.660 --> 21:20.920]  Okay.
[21:21.360 --> 21:21.700]  All right.
[21:22.260 --> 21:22.340]  Yeah.
[21:22.680 --> 21:43.940]  However, I would also, I would also be interested, Sasha, to see if there's another change in the ads you're getting, say at the beginning of January, because, you know, I think going from election season to the Christmas shopping season is going to affect what ads were also being served.
[21:43.940 --> 21:49.420]  So I'll be very curious once the new year has begun to see what you're getting in January.
[21:49.600 --> 21:53.060]  So this is a long-term reporting project we've got for you, but I hope that's okay.
[21:53.200 --> 21:53.560]  Go ahead, Kyle.
[21:53.800 --> 22:09.160]  One of my questions was, is there anything like, is there a YouTube that, that is generated or just like sort of strictly for kids and is there anything there that you cannot see that you would have to use like regular YouTube or do they even try?
[22:09.160 --> 22:12.740]  And I'm, I'm really curious what kind of ads might support that.
[22:12.980 --> 22:19.780]  Like, are they, are they creating any alternative or is it just that everybody is like a free for all for YouTube?
[22:20.020 --> 22:36.720]  And one of the things I'm hearing in this, uh, this, uh, hard hitting reporting is that there really needs to be curation of ads, not just like anybody who's got money can have an ad that might've worked for AdWords and, and, uh, the search engine aspect,
[22:36.940 --> 22:38.820]  uh, early on for Google.
[22:39.020 --> 22:46.260]  But for something like this, that is a huge, um, uh, method of, of consuming media.
[22:46.620 --> 22:53.640]  Um, what is, how does it compare like whatever kind of product they may have made that's geared more towards, uh, that age group?
[22:53.640 --> 23:01.040]  Um, yeah, you know, there, there is a YouTube app that's just for kids.
[23:01.480 --> 23:04.780]  Uh, we, uh, do we have the, have we installed that one?
[23:04.900 --> 23:05.660]  I don't know if we have.
[23:05.820 --> 23:08.720]  Like once, once, but I was like five.
[23:09.080 --> 23:10.080]  You were five, right?
[23:10.080 --> 23:11.740]  Can you even watch Minecraft on it?
[23:11.920 --> 23:14.340]  Like Minecraft type stuff, like the same stuff you would search for?
[23:16.120 --> 23:16.800]  What do you?
[23:16.980 --> 23:19.460]  Can you watch Minecraft on the YouTube kids?
[23:19.760 --> 23:20.160]  No.
[23:20.400 --> 23:21.460]  Can you find what you want?
[23:21.580 --> 23:22.540]  I guess is what I'm saying.
[23:23.100 --> 23:23.900]  Probably not.
[23:24.020 --> 23:24.660]  Yeah, probably not.
[23:24.820 --> 23:25.080]  I would say.
[23:25.260 --> 23:26.540]  I bet it's called Kidstube.
[23:26.660 --> 23:28.580]  That's, that's a name that was perfect for this.
[23:28.640 --> 23:30.520]  It's probably like a cutoff too.
[23:30.760 --> 23:43.680]  Cause you're a little bit older, you're kind of adolescent, kind of going into, um, your own interests and stuff, but they don't really have an intermediate, uh, channel for that or, or platform.
[23:43.960 --> 23:58.720]  It kind of thrusts you into this thing that as, as I was noting, it really is the highest spitter or, you know, the, the almighty dollar is like, that's, that's the, the low bar for whether an ad is on the platform or not.
[24:00.660 --> 24:01.260]  Yeah.
[24:01.520 --> 24:11.220]  And, and I think just going back to fundamentals here, if it's a kid video, it should have kid advertisements or kid level advertisements.
[24:11.220 --> 24:12.560]  I think it should have no advertisements.
[24:12.820 --> 24:14.460]  Why, why do you need to advertise to kids?
[24:14.880 --> 24:15.480]  I agree.
[24:15.680 --> 24:16.560]  I don't have any money.
[24:16.720 --> 24:18.240]  You know, they can't go out and buy things.
[24:18.460 --> 24:20.820]  All they can do is, is nag you to buy things.
[24:21.000 --> 24:22.760]  No, that's, that's the angle though.
[24:22.920 --> 24:23.320]  I know.
[24:23.960 --> 24:24.320]  Yeah.
[24:24.600 --> 24:24.720]  Yeah.
[24:24.800 --> 24:25.860]  Well that, that's exactly right.
[24:25.920 --> 24:33.080]  You know, or, or they can just go and do it themselves apparently on Alexa and that, that might, you know, contribute to a, to its overall success.
[24:33.080 --> 24:42.560]  But it's, um, it, it just beguiles me why political ads would be served to children.
[24:43.000 --> 24:44.600]  That's just a very, very strange thing.
[24:44.720 --> 24:56.880]  I think that there was such overspending happening, especially in places like Pennsylvania on both sides of the aisle by the Democrats and the Republicans, that there was a tremendous amount of money to burn through.
[24:57.020 --> 25:02.460]  And the only way they could do it was to serve these political ads adjacent to anything and everything.
[25:02.960 --> 25:17.660]  And I think that that's what they were doing was that it was a, it was a deliberate choice to maximize profits from this massive advertising pool that seemed to be inexhaustibly replenished with money after money after money and people just donating and donating.
[25:18.240 --> 25:32.360]  And so, you know, this was a opportunistic play for these particular platforms where for a certain period of time, they did not care about the, the age appropriate level of these advertisements and political ads were being served to anybody and everybody.
[25:32.600 --> 25:37.300]  But I only saw the Fetterman ads in the Poconos, not in New York.
[25:37.480 --> 25:38.900]  They just disappear in New York.
[25:39.100 --> 25:39.900]  Well, you know what?
[25:40.000 --> 25:40.900]  Yeah, because you're not in Pennsylvania.
[25:41.140 --> 25:43.120]  It's the elections for Poconos.
[25:43.460 --> 25:44.700]  Well, the election for Pennsylvania.
[25:44.700 --> 25:45.200]  That's right.
[25:45.340 --> 25:46.440]  So that's a great point.
[25:46.620 --> 25:50.800]  They're able, they're able to differentiate where you are, but not who you are.
[25:51.440 --> 26:01.640]  So that is a really, really good point, Sasha, because based on the IP address that we have on our computer, you can determine where somebody is geographically, right?
[26:01.720 --> 26:06.740]  So on the map, they can, they can know that we're in Northeastern Pennsylvania in the Poconos.
[26:06.940 --> 26:15.520]  So that's why you weren't getting those ads in New York because John Fetterman was running against Dr. Oz for the Senate seat in Pennsylvania.
[26:16.000 --> 26:17.000]  I have a question.
[26:17.760 --> 26:18.140]  Okay.
[26:18.420 --> 26:23.000]  What did you, what did you see leading up to the election in New York on these ads?
[26:23.320 --> 26:24.740]  Oh, what do you mean by that?
[26:24.740 --> 26:32.020]  So, you know, right before, you know how you would see the political ads on YouTube ahead of the election here with John Fetterman?
[26:32.080 --> 26:34.000]  Did you see any political ads in New York?
[26:34.680 --> 26:39.180]  Um, no, it did not show any voting for election in New York.
[26:39.200 --> 26:41.620]  It only shows these ads in the Poconos.
[26:41.720 --> 26:43.100]  That's because we know what we're doing here.
[26:43.180 --> 26:44.860]  We know what we're doing in New York and Pennsylvania.
[26:44.900 --> 26:45.680]  I don't know.
[26:45.900 --> 26:47.680]  None of this scattershot ad buying.
[26:48.040 --> 26:50.540]  My question was, are there any adults that play Minecraft?
[26:51.640 --> 26:52.760]  I'm wondering if that might...
[26:52.760 --> 26:53.500]  Um, yeah.
[26:54.040 --> 26:59.540]  So, there are people that are above voting age that might engage in watching trailers and stuff, too?
[27:00.640 --> 27:00.880]  Yeah.
[27:01.060 --> 27:01.740]  Like, there's overlap?
[27:02.060 --> 27:04.340]  So, how would you two know you were a kid, then?
[27:07.280 --> 27:08.420]  Well, I don't know.
[27:08.500 --> 27:10.280]  They probably think I'm a teenager.
[27:11.060 --> 27:12.080]  Oh, is that right?
[27:12.160 --> 27:12.400]  Yeah.
[27:12.620 --> 27:12.880]  Interesting.
[27:13.160 --> 27:14.000]  All the way up there.
[27:14.840 --> 27:16.540]  And maybe voting age.
[27:16.760 --> 27:17.000]  Maybe.
[27:17.320 --> 27:25.460]  Or at the very least, somebody who would talk to his parent and say, is John Fetterman too radical for Pennsylvania and make Alex think, yes, maybe John Fetterman is too radical.
[27:25.640 --> 27:27.400]  Maybe I should vote for Dr. Oz instead.
[27:27.620 --> 27:28.240]  I'll be voting.
[27:28.240 --> 27:30.440]  Not that you vote in Pennsylvania anyway, because you're a New York resident.
[27:30.600 --> 27:34.400]  But the other thing is, if lots of kids are doing this, it could affect their parents.
[27:35.040 --> 27:45.660]  Well, one way to look at it is these ads definitely did spark some kind of political discourse, because Sasha did exactly that, come over to me and ask if John Fetterman was too radical for Pennsylvania.
[27:46.040 --> 27:50.320]  And here we are talking about it on Off the Hook Overtime a couple of weeks later.
[27:51.120 --> 27:54.200]  And Sasha, do you think John Fetterman is too radical for Pennsylvania?
[27:56.240 --> 28:03.080]  Well, in the beginning, the beard did look a bit evil to me.
[28:03.480 --> 28:04.220]  But I don't know.
[28:06.680 --> 28:08.140]  He's going to hear this.
[28:08.140 --> 28:09.660]  I know he's going to hear this.
[28:10.180 --> 28:11.120]  Yeah, I hope so.
[28:11.380 --> 28:12.000]  I hope so.
[28:12.040 --> 28:15.120]  Your beard looked evil in the beginning, but it didn't look evil at the end.
[28:16.400 --> 28:16.920]  Yeah.
[28:17.300 --> 28:18.200]  You warmed up to it.
[28:18.200 --> 28:27.540]  Because I knew that the ads were going against each other, so that I knew that they were not saying actual things true about the other people.
[28:28.840 --> 28:29.220]  Yeah.
[28:29.560 --> 28:32.100]  That's a smart play there, Sasha.
[28:32.140 --> 28:35.940]  You're a smart man and a welcome addition to the show here.
[28:36.160 --> 28:36.460]  Mm-hmm.
[28:36.460 --> 28:44.020]  Well, I think you elevate the discourse and the intellectual, I think, honesty of all the participants here, wouldn't you say?
[28:44.360 --> 28:44.660]  Yeah.
[28:45.060 --> 28:45.220]  Okay.
[28:45.560 --> 28:45.660]  Yeah.
[28:45.860 --> 28:47.520]  Thank you for that critical analysis.
[28:47.740 --> 28:48.180]  Absolutely.
[28:49.160 --> 28:49.420]  Yeah.
[28:49.920 --> 28:50.220]  Excellent.
[28:50.340 --> 28:51.340]  Should we take some phone calls?
[28:51.420 --> 28:52.020]  I think we should.
[28:52.300 --> 28:52.680]  I'm sure it is ringing.
[28:53.020 --> 28:56.660]  Well, didn't we specifically ask people not to call before we give the phone number out?
[28:56.840 --> 28:58.520]  So whoever is calling now...
[28:58.520 --> 28:59.860]  I just want to...
[28:59.860 --> 29:04.220]  Yeah, there's certain people that, despite saying that, it might not work that well.
[29:04.460 --> 29:07.840]  But I'm just warning, there might be a couple issues level-wise.
[29:08.040 --> 29:10.180]  Hopefully, it doesn't shriek at us when I answer.
[29:10.320 --> 29:11.560]  Oh, so you made some changes to the board.
[29:12.500 --> 29:13.800]  There might be a horrible hum.
[29:13.900 --> 29:15.060]  It could be all kinds of messy.
[29:15.220 --> 29:17.060]  Just be very gentle with that.
[29:17.060 --> 29:18.740]  Should I have this up, or should I turn it up?
[29:18.760 --> 29:19.760]  Yeah, let's just get to the calls.
[29:19.760 --> 29:19.780]  You know what?
[29:19.780 --> 29:23.000]  Pick up the phone, and then I'll slowly fade up.
[29:23.420 --> 29:23.740]  All right.
[29:23.920 --> 29:24.620]  And here you go.
[29:24.660 --> 29:25.580]  I'm slowly fading up.
[29:26.040 --> 29:27.220]  And I hear...
[29:27.220 --> 29:28.020]  I hear...
[29:28.020 --> 29:28.420]  Oh, hi.
[29:28.500 --> 29:28.840]  Very slight.
[29:28.940 --> 29:29.360]  No, hold on.
[29:29.400 --> 29:29.640]  Hold on.
[29:29.700 --> 29:29.940]  Hold on.
[29:30.660 --> 29:31.860]  I'm going to introduce the caller.
[29:32.460 --> 29:35.200]  Caller, welcome to Off the Hook Overtime.
[29:37.560 --> 29:38.500]  You can speak now.
[29:40.180 --> 29:41.000]  Caller, you can speak.
[29:42.200 --> 29:43.180]  I spoke before.
[29:44.520 --> 29:44.880]  Hmm.
[29:47.060 --> 29:48.860]  Either they can't hear me, or I can't hear them.
[29:48.980 --> 29:50.640]  But I heard them a second ago.
[29:52.000 --> 29:53.060]  Did they maybe hang up?
[29:53.340 --> 29:54.720]  Is anybody on the phone?
[29:55.300 --> 29:55.600]  Hello?
[29:56.920 --> 29:58.220]  They could be messing with us, too.
[29:58.360 --> 29:59.820]  You know, our crawlers do that sometimes.
[30:01.500 --> 30:03.040]  Do we definitely have somebody on the line?
[30:03.800 --> 30:04.920]  As far as I can tell.
[30:05.240 --> 30:05.440]  Okay.
[30:05.540 --> 30:07.180]  Well, I'm hearing the hum of the phone line.
[30:10.420 --> 30:10.780]  Okay.
[30:10.860 --> 30:11.000]  Hello?
[30:11.180 --> 30:11.840]  Oh, there we go.
[30:11.920 --> 30:12.280]  There we go.
[30:12.520 --> 30:12.940]  Oh, yeah.
[30:13.060 --> 30:13.200]  Hi.
[30:13.840 --> 30:15.000]  Oh, there you are.
[30:15.000 --> 30:15.180]  Yeah.
[30:15.320 --> 30:16.800]  Were you not able to hear us just now?
[30:17.080 --> 30:17.440]  Okay.
[30:17.500 --> 30:18.040]  That was what we...
[30:18.040 --> 30:18.780]  Okay, I heard you.
[30:18.980 --> 30:19.700]  I heard you.
[30:19.880 --> 30:20.960]  Were you answering us?
[30:22.020 --> 30:26.360]  I was answering you, but you put me on hold, and then now you're back.
[30:26.660 --> 30:26.940]  Okay.
[30:27.080 --> 30:27.280]  All right.
[30:27.300 --> 30:28.220]  We're trying to figure this out.
[30:28.340 --> 30:29.180]  A little distorted.
[30:29.440 --> 30:30.480]  But, okay.
[30:30.560 --> 30:31.440]  What's on your mind?
[30:31.540 --> 30:32.120]  What kind of...
[30:32.120 --> 30:35.080]  You're trying to figure this out for the past year.
[30:35.500 --> 30:36.760]  This is Rebel, by the way.
[30:37.420 --> 30:38.040]  Of course.
[30:38.320 --> 30:38.440]  Yeah.
[30:38.440 --> 30:39.860]  Well, I didn't recognize you at first.
[30:39.960 --> 30:40.580]  You sound great.
[30:40.720 --> 30:41.260]  Glad you're here.
[30:44.340 --> 30:46.040]  Remember last time...
[30:46.040 --> 30:53.680]  Last time we were talking about the Verizon operator, or the AT&T operator that does not put calls...
[30:53.680 --> 30:54.120]  No, no.
[30:55.020 --> 30:57.640]  If you have a certain service with AT&T...
[30:58.400 --> 30:58.900]  All right.
[30:58.900 --> 31:02.140]  If you have a certain service with AT&T, it does not have operator services?
[31:03.880 --> 31:04.400]  Right?
[31:04.820 --> 31:05.180]  They're...
[31:05.180 --> 31:05.600]  No.
[31:06.060 --> 31:07.400]  As of December...
[31:07.400 --> 31:12.440]  As of January 1, AT&T home phone service is going to be losing operator capability.
[31:12.580 --> 31:13.500]  So, yes, but...
[31:13.500 --> 31:14.440]  In certain states.
[31:14.640 --> 31:15.880]  I know you said, but...
[31:15.880 --> 31:23.320]  I talked to the AT&T operator on a regular phone, which is a business phone, which was a business phone, and they said that...
[31:23.320 --> 31:39.880]  She said that only if you had the universe service, the bundled internet home, the thing that AT&T office, but if you have regular phone service from the local phone company, the operator, AT&T operator, will still be available, even if you're in those states.
[31:41.480 --> 31:44.580]  We're sorry about that ear-piercing screech just now.
[31:45.780 --> 31:47.160]  And we're not referring to you, Rebel.
[31:47.320 --> 31:50.820]  We're referring to the actual ear-piercing screech that we just broadcast.
[31:50.960 --> 31:51.980]  Oh, but did you hear what I said?
[31:52.620 --> 31:55.520]  Well, we've been working on the board, but I imagine everybody else was listening to you.
[31:55.680 --> 31:55.880]  Yes.
[31:57.440 --> 31:57.780]  Yeah.
[31:58.020 --> 31:59.360]  Do I have to repeat it?
[31:59.520 --> 32:00.460]  Oh, God, no, no.
[32:00.500 --> 32:00.720]  Did you hear that?
[32:00.860 --> 32:02.400]  No, Rebel, I totally...
[32:02.400 --> 32:03.220]  I heard you.
[32:03.500 --> 32:05.200]  So, yes, just to recap for everybody.
[32:06.060 --> 32:15.720]  What Rebel said was that he spoke to an AT&T operator who said that the only change to the service is people who have AT&T home phone service, which used to be known as U-verse.
[32:15.880 --> 32:17.000]  It's the bundle thing.
[32:17.140 --> 32:19.160]  And, yeah, yeah, we said that.
[32:19.960 --> 32:26.520]  But, yes, if you have a non-AT&T home phone service call and you call the operator, they'll still help you.
[32:27.300 --> 32:27.740]  Yeah.
[32:28.080 --> 32:28.240]  Right.
[32:29.080 --> 32:29.640]  Thank you.
[32:29.640 --> 32:32.340]  Now, okay, let's see.
[32:32.420 --> 32:32.900]  I can't hear you.
[32:33.980 --> 32:35.160]  If you call...
[32:35.160 --> 32:35.860]  You can't hear Rebel now?
[32:37.140 --> 32:37.960]  You can't hear Rebel.
[32:38.080 --> 32:39.660]  Okay, so Gila can no longer hear Rebel.
[32:40.720 --> 32:42.220]  I can hear Rebel, but he's very low.
[32:42.360 --> 32:43.020]  He's very low.
[32:43.360 --> 32:44.080]  All right, we're turning him up.
[32:44.080 --> 32:45.220]  Okay, I'm going to call a number now.
[32:45.400 --> 32:45.920]  Is that better?
[32:45.940 --> 32:46.380]  Now he's back.
[32:46.580 --> 32:46.800]  Okay.
[32:46.800 --> 32:52.540]  Okay, if you call this number, it tells you to...
[32:52.540 --> 32:54.320]  It doesn't tell you what company it is.
[32:55.600 --> 32:57.500]  Hold on while I demonstrate it.
[32:58.620 --> 32:59.380]  Want to hold?
[32:59.960 --> 33:00.720]  Go ahead.
[33:02.980 --> 33:08.000]  6-6-1-0-5-4...
[33:08.000 --> 33:09.640]  Don't give out the phone number.
[33:13.650 --> 33:14.910]  All right, well, we're on hold.
[33:15.950 --> 33:18.950]  What kind of show is this where our callers put us on hold?
[33:20.310 --> 33:21.770]  Have we given out the number even?
[33:22.150 --> 33:22.610]  You know what?
[33:22.630 --> 33:23.630]  We didn't even give out the number.
[33:25.190 --> 33:27.150]  Listen to what this company wants to do.
[33:27.150 --> 33:31.510]  Hello, we apologize that you are receiving these calls, but they are not originating from our office.
[33:31.990 --> 33:37.670]  Please either block this number or place it on the do not call list while we resolve this with our carrier company.
[33:37.910 --> 33:39.510]  Sorry for the inconvenience.
[33:40.610 --> 33:41.090]  Wow.
[33:41.330 --> 33:42.770]  Okay, were you over here then?
[33:42.970 --> 33:43.950]  Yes, heard that just fine.
[33:45.510 --> 33:55.430]  Now, see what that company, that port company has to do, because I got a call from that number, and it was one of those, you know, oh, this is American Express.
[33:55.430 --> 33:59.090]  You have won a, you know, all-expense-paid vacation or whatever.
[33:59.350 --> 33:59.890]  You know what I mean?
[33:59.910 --> 34:00.830]  It's one of those scams.
[34:01.830 --> 34:19.450]  And they called from that number, that 6-1-0 number, and then when I called that 6-1-0 number in Pennsylvania, I get that from this company, which is, I think, a doctor's office or something, and it says, plus one to, if you got a call from this number,
[34:19.450 --> 34:21.210]  and then you played it, did you hear that recording?
[34:21.370 --> 34:25.430]  Would they have to say, this is, if you got a call from this number, it's not originating from us?
[34:26.030 --> 34:35.090]  Yeah, but Rebel, we have the same recording on our home voicemail, because a few months ago, somebody was spoofing our number, so people were calling annoyed at us.
[34:35.470 --> 34:39.730]  So our voicemail now says, hi, you've reached Robin Gila's house.
[34:39.950 --> 34:44.950]  If you don't know us and you're calling because you've got a phone number from us, we're sorry, it wasn't us.
[34:45.110 --> 34:47.910]  We didn't, we're terribly sorry for the inconvenience.
[34:47.910 --> 34:49.350]  It's, we didn't call you.
[34:50.330 --> 34:51.150]  Don't hate us.
[34:51.190 --> 34:52.730]  If you know us, leave us a message.
[34:54.070 --> 34:54.390]  Wow.
[34:54.990 --> 34:56.150]  That's a lot to have to say.
[34:57.410 --> 34:59.030]  I did it a little faster than that.
[35:00.150 --> 35:01.970]  Okay, now, let's see what else.
[35:02.510 --> 35:03.250]  Also, let me get...
[35:03.250 --> 35:04.890]  You've got a whole list of things here, don't you, Rebel?
[35:05.730 --> 35:06.050]  Yeah.
[35:07.190 --> 35:08.970]  You have an agenda each week, when you call it?
[35:08.970 --> 35:18.530]  Can I just say, since we didn't even have the chance to give out the phone number, our phone number is 802-321-4225, 802-321-HACK is our telephone number for those people.
[35:18.610 --> 35:19.670]  But don't call it now, because I'm on the phone.
[35:20.130 --> 35:22.210]  Yeah, but you called it when we asked you not to.
[35:22.590 --> 35:24.530]  So, I mean, we're rewarding...
[35:24.530 --> 35:25.410]  Hold on, I call another number.
[35:25.410 --> 35:28.410]  We're rewarding people not obeying our commands, and...
[35:28.410 --> 35:29.690]  All right, one more number.
[35:30.070 --> 35:30.250]  On hold.
[35:32.210 --> 35:33.410]  Putting us on hold again.
[35:33.770 --> 35:35.150]  Why do we tolerate this?
[35:35.290 --> 35:37.370]  Why do we let ourselves be treated this way?
[35:38.450 --> 35:40.970]  We're always up for a phone trip.
[35:43.630 --> 35:46.190]  This is not how I pictured myself celebrating Doctor Who Day.
[35:47.530 --> 35:50.270]  Well, I wasn't picturing Doctor Who Day at all, so...
[35:50.270 --> 35:51.450]  I don't know where that puts me.
[35:51.910 --> 35:52.650]  To continue.
[35:54.450 --> 35:56.190]  Oh, thank you for calling.
[35:56.310 --> 35:57.190]  But what am I calling?
[35:57.390 --> 35:58.870]  Press 5 to continue.
[36:00.030 --> 36:01.590]  This call may be recorded.
[36:04.450 --> 36:05.650]  Let's just ask this person.
[36:05.830 --> 36:06.550]  I'm going to tell you what you're calling.
[36:06.550 --> 36:08.070]  Well, yeah, ask the person to pick it up.
[36:10.710 --> 36:12.310]  I'm going to give you the phone number.
[36:13.510 --> 36:14.050]  You know what?
[36:14.090 --> 36:14.950]  I'm not going to do that.
[36:15.390 --> 36:17.930]  Actually, no, I get rid of this before.
[36:19.130 --> 36:20.210]  Well, you just...
[36:20.210 --> 36:22.210]  You called them, and all you did was ring a number.
[36:23.110 --> 36:23.870]  There you go.
[36:23.910 --> 36:25.510]  Our hours are 9 a.m.
[36:25.610 --> 36:27.610]  That tells you exactly who they are.
[36:28.450 --> 36:32.290]  Please leave your name and phone number, and we will get back to you...
[36:32.290 --> 36:32.750]  Oh, I don't want...
[36:32.750 --> 36:34.130]  Yeah, why don't you not do that?
[36:35.790 --> 36:36.190]  Sorry.
[36:36.550 --> 36:39.910]  You cannot leave a message now, because this mailbox is full.
[36:40.430 --> 36:42.550]  Yeah, no doubt full of Rebels messages.
[36:43.050 --> 36:43.830]  Press star 8.
[36:44.190 --> 36:44.810]  Wait a minute.
[36:45.030 --> 36:47.090]  Or to reach the receptionist, press 0.
[36:48.130 --> 36:50.370]  Yeah, I thought the receptionist is still there.
[36:50.490 --> 36:51.890]  Your call is being transferred.
[36:52.070 --> 36:53.070]  Oh, no, I don't want to...
[36:53.070 --> 36:55.130]  All right, well, I'm just going to have to talk to Paul over this.
[36:55.530 --> 36:58.610]  This is 6919901.
[36:58.610 --> 37:02.570]  It's supposed to be, you know, what phone number, what central office is your phone number?
[37:02.570 --> 37:03.590]  Well, some of them do that.
[37:03.710 --> 37:05.350]  Not all of them do use 991 for that.
[37:05.350 --> 37:06.950]  Not all of them, but some of them do this.
[37:07.670 --> 37:11.490]  Okay, well, you found an office that transfers phone calls.
[37:11.610 --> 37:12.470]  I'm not sure what the issue is.
[37:12.610 --> 37:14.490]  You have reached four audiology clinics.
[37:14.490 --> 37:16.410]  And again, we know more about them than we need to.
[37:18.470 --> 37:21.250]  All right, Rebel, you know, we're going to move on.
[37:21.330 --> 37:26.630]  You've got some chaos going on there with some kind of voicemail system.
[37:26.830 --> 37:27.850]  Thank you for calling.
[37:28.150 --> 37:30.970]  Our phone number, 802-321-4225.
[37:32.590 --> 37:34.310]  And can we release that, Kyle?
[37:35.030 --> 37:35.370]  Yes.
[37:35.450 --> 37:36.510]  Is he released from us?
[37:36.830 --> 37:38.310]  Yes, please call quickly.
[37:38.930 --> 37:39.910]  Fill that line.
[37:40.130 --> 37:40.890]  Rebel, please don't call back.
[37:40.890 --> 37:42.650]  No, not anyone, but...
[37:42.650 --> 37:43.650]  Yeah, because we can block.
[37:43.650 --> 37:45.070]  We can block numbers, too, you know.
[37:45.090 --> 37:45.910]  We can do that.
[37:46.270 --> 37:48.890]  And not only can we block numbers, we can attack numbers.
[37:49.710 --> 37:52.070]  So, you know, if somebody annoys us...
[37:52.070 --> 37:54.650]  Well, I don't want to give the details, but it's not pleasant.
[37:54.830 --> 37:55.510]  It's not pleasant.
[37:56.730 --> 37:57.970]  802-321-4225.
[37:58.110 --> 38:01.690]  And, of course, you can see who's calling in, and it's the same number you don't pick up.
[38:01.810 --> 38:02.450]  Okay, good evening.
[38:02.570 --> 38:03.690]  You're on Off the Hook Overtime.
[38:05.130 --> 38:05.450]  Hi.
[38:05.670 --> 38:05.950]  Hi.
[38:06.110 --> 38:06.650]  How are you doing?
[38:07.650 --> 38:08.150]  I'm good.
[38:08.150 --> 38:08.630]  How are you?
[38:08.850 --> 38:09.670]  Not bad, not bad.
[38:09.710 --> 38:10.210]  What's on your mind?
[38:11.290 --> 38:14.270]  Um, I just wanted to say hello to my nephew.
[38:15.630 --> 38:16.570]  Uh, okay.
[38:16.630 --> 38:17.330]  Who could that be?
[38:18.330 --> 38:19.910]  That would be Sasha.
[38:21.170 --> 38:21.690]  Wow.
[38:21.770 --> 38:25.490]  It's an Alex family reunion here on the radio.
[38:25.770 --> 38:25.810]  That's right.
[38:26.930 --> 38:28.130]  This is Rachel.
[38:28.610 --> 38:29.850]  Oh, from Florida.
[38:30.090 --> 38:30.510]  From Florida.
[38:30.710 --> 38:30.950]  Okay.
[38:32.690 --> 38:33.610]  Hi, Sasha.
[38:35.610 --> 38:36.950]  How crazy is that?
[38:37.090 --> 38:39.810]  Aunt Rachel called up while you were on the air?
[38:39.970 --> 38:40.430]  Mm-hmm.
[38:40.670 --> 38:41.610]  Oh, my goodness.
[38:41.810 --> 38:43.190]  What a special night, huh?
[38:43.190 --> 38:44.430]  Probably because you texted her.
[38:44.530 --> 38:45.650]  I don't know about that.
[38:45.830 --> 38:46.350]  I don't know about it.
[38:47.110 --> 38:48.450]  Let me see that phone.
[38:49.730 --> 38:50.610]  Sasha is...
[38:50.610 --> 38:52.170]  I'm doing forensics at the moment.
[38:52.170 --> 38:53.230]  He is very honest.
[38:53.490 --> 38:53.650]  Let me see it.
[38:53.730 --> 38:54.910]  This is an honest kid.
[38:55.070 --> 38:56.950]  He will say what his dad is doing.
[38:56.970 --> 38:57.590]  I like that.
[39:03.930 --> 39:05.410]  No passwords for you.
[39:06.430 --> 39:07.790]  Talk to your Aunt Rachel.
[39:08.070 --> 39:08.790]  Aunt Rachel.
[39:09.830 --> 39:10.290]  Yeah?
[39:10.390 --> 39:10.870]  Hey, man.
[39:10.910 --> 39:11.690]  How are you?
[39:12.470 --> 39:12.830]  Good.
[39:14.990 --> 39:19.930]  Rachel, why don't you give us an update about what's been happening in Florida since you last called in?
[39:20.050 --> 39:24.790]  You know, Aunt Rachel would call in when there was a big hurricane down there and she had to evacuate.
[39:25.130 --> 39:25.410]  Oh.
[39:25.470 --> 39:29.910]  And now she's back where she is and we should get an update from her, right?
[39:30.130 --> 39:30.590]  Yeah.
[39:31.850 --> 39:32.370]  Yeah.
[39:32.370 --> 39:38.050]  Yeah, so my restaurant actually reopened last Tuesday.
[39:39.350 --> 39:41.530]  The island that I work...
[39:42.350 --> 39:44.750]  Oh, I started hearing myself talk.
[39:44.950 --> 39:50.490]  The island that I work on is not open fully to the public.
[39:51.390 --> 39:56.650]  They're just letting residents and people working back on.
[39:58.970 --> 40:07.290]  And it's been really good to be back at work and people are really happy to have a place to go and to eat.
[40:08.690 --> 40:13.730]  And it's been somewhat also very harrowing.
[40:14.610 --> 40:21.070]  You know, bartenders are often, you know, it's said that we're kind of your kind of therapist.
[40:21.990 --> 40:28.030]  But for the trauma that these people have been through, I am not at all qualified to deal with.
[40:28.870 --> 40:37.490]  You know, people are walking in the door like so happy to have something normal, but then they sit down at the bar and tell you the most terrifying story you've ever heard.
[40:38.250 --> 40:38.810]  Yeah.
[40:39.110 --> 40:39.670]  So...
[40:39.670 --> 40:40.890]  Just hearing that matters.
[40:41.370 --> 40:42.650]  Just listening matters.
[40:43.670 --> 40:44.170]  Yeah.
[40:45.210 --> 40:45.710]  Yeah.
[40:46.010 --> 40:48.810]  A lot of very scary, scary stories.
[40:49.050 --> 40:50.090]  A lot of people stayed.
[40:50.890 --> 40:53.450]  A lot more than I thought there was out there.
[40:55.270 --> 40:55.770]  And...
[40:56.470 --> 40:58.010]  It's been real rough.
[40:58.330 --> 41:03.170]  I think it was you who told us that some people were told to stay by their employers.
[41:03.170 --> 41:03.730]  Was that correct?
[41:04.530 --> 41:05.330]  Well, yeah.
[41:05.330 --> 41:14.870]  Yeah, some people, because, like, if they worked, like, that Tuesday, there really isn't that much time to get your life in order and get out.
[41:15.450 --> 41:24.730]  I don't know if they were told to stay, but there were places that were still operating, like, very close to when the storm was coming in.
[41:27.130 --> 41:28.710]  I heard that from a couple people.
[41:29.970 --> 41:30.450]  Wow.
[41:31.490 --> 41:32.430]  You're a good listener.
[41:34.390 --> 41:35.250]  Thank you.
[41:38.880 --> 41:41.940]  Well, Rachel, what else is going on there?
[41:42.080 --> 41:43.140]  I mean, I think...
[41:43.140 --> 41:45.540]  Tell us a little bit about the...
[41:45.540 --> 41:50.360]  You know, your restaurant, your bar, and whether there's any damage.
[41:50.360 --> 41:52.220]  Is it back up and running entirely?
[41:54.460 --> 41:55.020]  Somewhat.
[41:55.240 --> 41:56.480]  There's no internet.
[41:56.960 --> 42:09.060]  A lot of people on the island are only just now getting electricity, like, within yesterday's day, today, there's a certain very...
[42:09.760 --> 42:10.680]  I don't know.
[42:10.740 --> 42:16.740]  I don't know the logistics of it, but some people are still powerless and waterless and all that.
[42:17.520 --> 42:33.280]  The other day, there was a huge fire nearby because a golf course, all their golf carts had gotten wet in the storm surge, and then they just kind of exploded.
[42:33.280 --> 42:37.740]  I don't know what happened, but from the corrosion from the fire.
[42:37.740 --> 42:38.540]  From the hurricane?
[42:38.780 --> 42:40.160]  And it just exploded now?
[42:41.020 --> 42:41.620]  Yeah.
[42:41.880 --> 42:45.440]  And it's the second time that's happened in the past month.
[42:46.320 --> 42:51.040]  Yeah, the batteries just start burning somehow.
[42:51.300 --> 42:51.700]  I don't know.
[42:51.860 --> 42:52.780]  So that was apocalyptic.
[42:56.460 --> 43:07.640]  Just today, some very strange people showed up and tried to steal these baby palm trees that are growing on the property of my restaurant.
[43:07.780 --> 43:09.080]  It's like all the...
[43:09.080 --> 43:13.740]  So many trees are broken and dead, and they tried to steal our trees.
[43:13.740 --> 43:15.220]  Wait, they...
[43:15.220 --> 43:15.760]  Hold on a second.
[43:16.620 --> 43:19.620]  Were your trees in the ground?
[43:20.560 --> 43:28.980]  Yeah, they were like two-year-old, I guess, coconut trees that were growing naturally from coconuts that had fallen there.
[43:29.160 --> 43:31.960]  They came with shovels to take your trees away?
[43:32.640 --> 43:36.920]  Well, apparently they're very easy to just pull up when they're small.
[43:37.980 --> 43:42.680]  So they just pulled up and started grabbing at our trees, and we had to call the police.
[43:42.680 --> 43:46.380]  Like, that's an unusual call to make, someone's stealing our trees.
[43:46.600 --> 43:47.000]  That's...
[43:47.000 --> 43:48.380]  But they haven't heard that one before.
[43:49.360 --> 43:51.440]  In the middle of the day, in broad daylight.
[43:52.800 --> 43:55.080]  Well, I mean, stealing trees at night looks suspicious.
[43:57.780 --> 43:58.680]  That's true, yeah.
[43:58.860 --> 43:59.900]  I mean, this is a...
[43:59.900 --> 44:03.760]  This sounds like it could be another classic Florida man type story, right?
[44:03.860 --> 44:05.280]  It sounds like Florida men, though.
[44:05.560 --> 44:06.640]  How many people were there?
[44:07.180 --> 44:08.240]  It was a couple.
[44:08.460 --> 44:09.320]  It was a man and a woman.
[44:10.260 --> 44:10.760]  Wow.
[44:11.660 --> 44:12.020]  Yeah.
[44:12.180 --> 44:17.240]  Yeah, and it's funny because there's so many police officers, and they're from all over the state.
[44:17.540 --> 44:18.340]  Well, now...
[44:18.340 --> 44:18.880]  Okay, so...
[44:18.880 --> 44:22.180]  So we have police officers from three different cities in our parking lot.
[44:23.540 --> 44:24.420]  So, when...
[44:24.420 --> 44:25.460]  Were these people confronted?
[44:26.940 --> 44:29.280]  Yeah, and they made up some nonsense story.
[44:29.500 --> 44:30.400]  I'd like to hear it.
[44:31.880 --> 44:33.700]  Oh, well, they said...
[44:33.700 --> 44:34.740]  Okay, this is hilarious.
[44:34.920 --> 44:35.740]  Because they're digging...
[44:35.740 --> 44:38.300]  They're pulling these plants out of the ground.
[44:38.300 --> 44:44.880]  And then the woman said, oh, it's because my husband, he's been coming to Sanibel for years.
[44:44.880 --> 44:46.280]  He wanted a souvenir.
[44:47.380 --> 44:52.720]  And they were pulling the third one out and putting it in the back of their pickup truck.
[44:52.980 --> 44:57.480]  So their idea of a souvenir is to uproot plants around the place they've been to?
[44:58.280 --> 44:58.800]  Wow.
[44:58.800 --> 44:59.200]  Allegedly.
[44:59.720 --> 45:01.820]  I would have offered them a window or something.
[45:02.700 --> 45:03.260]  Right.
[45:03.480 --> 45:04.300]  And there's...
[45:04.300 --> 45:07.860]  You know, the place is really, really messed up.
[45:07.860 --> 45:09.260]  There's stuff everywhere.
[45:10.140 --> 45:10.800]  You know?
[45:11.140 --> 45:12.320]  Maybe they just...
[45:12.320 --> 45:12.860]  Maybe they...
[45:12.860 --> 45:17.860]  Is it possible they just thought you'd given up and that the place was abandoned and nobody cared anymore?
[45:18.780 --> 45:19.900]  No, not at all.
[45:20.020 --> 45:23.960]  Because they had actually pulled up and I was outside eating my lunch.
[45:24.100 --> 45:28.840]  And we have like a back sort of patio area for employees where we enter.
[45:29.420 --> 45:33.700]  And I was having my lunch out there and the woman walked up and said, hey, are you guys open?
[45:33.760 --> 45:34.520]  And we said, yeah.
[45:34.920 --> 45:36.420]  Like the entrance is right over there.
[45:36.420 --> 45:37.940]  So, they absolutely knew.
[45:38.320 --> 45:40.340]  And there were other cars in the parking lot.
[45:41.120 --> 45:42.260]  I have no idea what it was there.
[45:42.320 --> 45:49.040]  With them in clear sight of you, they then proceeded to start digging up a tree after having talked to you.
[45:49.740 --> 46:02.760]  They were out of my line of sight, but in the full view of my bar, which has floor to ceiling windows and people were sitting around the bar and a woman came in to the bar and said, what are they doing out there?
[46:02.760 --> 46:05.980]  Because no one had noticed until she looked out the window.
[46:07.420 --> 46:07.860]  Fascinating.
[46:08.260 --> 46:10.540]  Yeah, that was a really strange thing that happened.
[46:10.800 --> 46:12.060]  I want one of these trees now.
[46:12.120 --> 46:15.020]  Since everyone's taking them, I mean, why can't I have one?
[46:15.020 --> 46:15.840]  No, there are trees too.
[46:17.840 --> 46:19.160]  And coconuts grow on them?
[46:20.700 --> 46:21.140]  Yeah.
[46:21.440 --> 46:22.740]  Oh, I definitely want one now.
[46:23.340 --> 46:25.180]  They take a long time to grow up.
[46:25.320 --> 46:25.540]  Uh-huh.
[46:25.660 --> 46:27.360]  So, they're easy to pluck from the ground.
[46:27.440 --> 46:28.320]  I know that now.
[46:28.320 --> 46:30.340]  So, I just have to find some places that have them.
[46:30.460 --> 46:31.260]  And, uh, wow.
[46:32.140 --> 46:34.320]  Of course, they won't grow in New York, I'm pretty sure.
[46:35.240 --> 46:35.920]  Probably not.
[46:36.580 --> 46:37.460]  Maybe indoors.
[46:38.020 --> 46:40.960]  Like in, uh, Battery Park City.
[46:41.260 --> 46:45.200]  So, I'm hoping Sasha learns a lesson here that stealing trees is wrong.
[46:46.040 --> 46:47.040]  It is wrong.
[46:47.460 --> 46:48.440]  Leave the trees alone.
[46:48.580 --> 46:49.800]  The trees have been through a lot.
[46:49.920 --> 46:50.960]  No, don't steal trees.
[46:52.220 --> 46:54.940]  There's one lesson we can impart to the youth of today.
[46:55.760 --> 46:56.140]  That should be it.
[46:56.160 --> 46:56.840]  I learned a lesson.
[46:57.460 --> 46:57.940]  Yeah.
[46:58.180 --> 46:58.880]  Okay, good.
[46:59.920 --> 47:01.200]  You're very smart, Sasha.
[47:02.220 --> 47:02.700]  Yeah.
[47:02.960 --> 47:06.820]  I mean, is this something that you knew before this program, Sasha?
[47:06.980 --> 47:08.920]  Was it always wrong to steal trees?
[47:08.920 --> 47:12.520]  Or is this a new lesson that has come to light tonight?
[47:13.400 --> 47:16.500]  Um, probably a bit new lesson to come to light tonight.
[47:16.880 --> 47:17.000]  Yeah.
[47:17.080 --> 47:18.240]  Because I'm just...
[47:18.240 --> 47:21.160]  It's just, I don't see many small trees.
[47:21.160 --> 47:30.000]  I usually see, like, 35 feet trees that are, like, that would probably take, um, a whole year to try and take out.
[47:30.300 --> 47:30.720]  Yeah.
[47:31.020 --> 47:31.180]  Yeah.
[47:31.180 --> 47:36.500]  So, I'm just not so used to thinking of those types of lessons.
[47:36.900 --> 47:37.160]  Right.
[47:37.280 --> 47:45.240]  So, if you saw a small tree on somebody else's property, do you think it would, prior to today, do you think it was okay to just take it?
[47:46.060 --> 47:56.560]  Um, well, if they, well, um, if they didn't, um, let's say, if they, well, they, they probably didn't kill or care about that tree too much.
[47:56.700 --> 47:57.140]  Oh, really?
[47:57.940 --> 47:59.460]  What, what would make you think that?
[47:59.980 --> 48:01.780]  Um, because it's just a tree.
[48:02.080 --> 48:02.800]  Oh, it's just a tree.
[48:02.940 --> 48:07.740]  And, in New York, we only have saplings, not beautiful palm trees.
[48:08.020 --> 48:08.580]  That's true.
[48:08.740 --> 48:09.160]  That's true.
[48:09.160 --> 48:11.720]  We don't have a lot of those, the situations there.
[48:11.860 --> 48:12.620]  We have zero.
[48:13.120 --> 48:13.400]  Yeah.
[48:13.400 --> 48:19.400]  Do I detect, uh, a hint of envy here, that, uh, Sasha wants palm trees and prefers Florida to New York?
[48:22.480 --> 48:23.440]  What was that, Sasha?
[48:23.640 --> 48:25.040]  Do you like Florida better than New York?
[48:25.140 --> 48:27.520]  This is going to be a very controversial comment here.
[48:27.620 --> 48:28.180]  I do.
[48:28.480 --> 48:28.960]  You do?
[48:29.200 --> 48:29.620]  This is going on the record.
[48:29.680 --> 48:30.660]  See, I got this out of your kid.
[48:30.900 --> 48:35.440]  Florida has a better ocean, a better view.
[48:35.560 --> 48:39.460]  It doesn't have a Hudson River that's literally green.
[48:39.700 --> 48:40.380]  It doesn't have that.
[48:40.420 --> 48:40.780]  That's right.
[48:40.780 --> 48:44.060]  You could, you'd probably come out of with the extra limb.
[48:44.520 --> 48:49.300]  In Florida, it's clear water, better piers, probably.
[48:49.800 --> 48:50.120]  Yeah.
[48:50.260 --> 48:51.520]  More decoration.
[48:51.980 --> 48:52.680]  Alligators, too.
[48:52.720 --> 48:53.440]  You have alligators.
[48:53.980 --> 48:54.460]  Yeah.
[48:54.480 --> 48:55.280]  What about alligators?
[48:55.660 --> 48:57.080]  Um, okay.
[48:57.420 --> 48:58.700]  I'm, okay.
[48:58.880 --> 49:02.780]  Like, the pools in, the pools in Florida are better than New York.
[49:02.940 --> 49:03.600]  You think so?
[49:04.080 --> 49:04.740]  Yeah, all right.
[49:04.880 --> 49:08.140]  Well, I'll give you that, because you can use them all year round, right?
[49:08.300 --> 49:08.620]  Yeah.
[49:08.800 --> 49:09.620]  Yeah, I know.
[49:09.680 --> 49:16.380]  Well, we'll be down there soon, and we're going to go visit Aunt Rachel, and we're going to go check out her bar, and we're going to steal her trees.
[49:16.700 --> 49:17.100]  Oh, boy.
[49:17.800 --> 49:18.180]  All right?
[49:18.420 --> 49:18.740]  Yeah.
[49:19.140 --> 49:22.500]  And they're not going to be saying we're going to steal the big ones.
[49:22.620 --> 49:23.120]  We're going to get them.
[49:23.120 --> 49:24.020]  We're going to read about this in the paper.
[49:25.100 --> 49:26.380]  Soon-to-be, Florida man.
[49:29.820 --> 49:33.480]  We know when to do it, when Aunt Rachel's not having lunch, right?
[49:33.740 --> 49:33.960]  Yeah.
[49:34.280 --> 49:35.500]  Okay, fantastic.
[49:35.740 --> 49:38.280]  This has been a very eventful evening here.
[49:38.400 --> 49:39.220]  We've learned a lot.
[49:39.420 --> 49:42.220]  Also, we've got to take some of that salt from the bathroom.
[49:42.740 --> 49:43.600]  Oh, yeah, that's right.
[49:44.920 --> 49:45.960]  Did you hear that, Rachel?
[49:46.960 --> 49:47.360]  Yes.
[49:48.100 --> 49:48.500]  Yeah.
[49:49.100 --> 49:52.540]  Do you want to describe what Sasha's talking about very briefly, and then maybe we'll move on?
[49:53.640 --> 49:57.640]  Yeah, we have a salt scrub in the bathrooms at my restaurant.
[49:58.440 --> 49:58.920]  Interesting.
[49:59.120 --> 50:00.640]  And it's really, really nice.
[50:01.380 --> 50:03.160]  It makes your hands feel wonderful.
[50:04.000 --> 50:04.460]  Yeah.
[50:04.700 --> 50:06.280]  It's a massage, technically.
[50:07.320 --> 50:09.280]  Yeah, I'm surprised you remember all this.
[50:11.100 --> 50:13.140]  They keep track of everything, Alex.
[50:13.700 --> 50:14.360]  Be careful.
[50:14.560 --> 50:14.980]  Be careful.
[50:15.440 --> 50:16.180]  I know.
[50:16.400 --> 50:18.300]  It's just what happens when you keep feeding them.
[50:19.480 --> 50:22.420]  Yeah, that was about a year and a half ago, and he remembers.
[50:23.340 --> 50:24.480]  Yeah, I know.
[50:24.720 --> 50:25.720]  Yep, that was it.
[50:25.860 --> 50:28.780]  He's a smart kid, this guy, let me tell you.
[50:29.140 --> 50:29.340]  Yep.
[50:29.660 --> 50:30.320]  Yeah, he is.
[50:30.500 --> 50:31.160]  Very proud.
[50:31.320 --> 50:32.840]  Well, thanks for the update.
[50:33.020 --> 50:34.880]  Anything else you wanted to let us know before we move on?
[50:36.420 --> 50:37.960]  No, I don't think so.
[50:38.220 --> 50:46.700]  It's just been really tough, and it's weird how it feels very rude of the rest of the world to just move on.
[50:47.480 --> 50:48.700]  Yeah, we're sorry about that.
[50:49.780 --> 51:00.180]  Yeah, I mean, it's your fault, but it's been real, real, just kind of crappy down here.
[51:00.780 --> 51:01.560]  Very sad.
[51:02.080 --> 51:05.500]  Well, I imagine this Thanksgiving is going to be a bit of a challenge for a lot of people down there.
[51:06.860 --> 51:07.340]  Yeah.
[51:08.260 --> 51:09.300]  Yeah, I think so.
[51:09.420 --> 51:13.760]  There's a lot of people who, like, their houses are just gone completely.
[51:14.700 --> 51:16.760]  You know, a lot of people who are struggling.
[51:19.660 --> 51:20.120]  Yeah.
[51:21.120 --> 51:22.120]  We'll come back.
[51:22.360 --> 51:23.380]  We'll figure it out.
[51:24.140 --> 51:33.000]  Well, we have to remember these people and check in on them, make sure that they're, you know, at least surviving, and help them recover.
[51:33.200 --> 51:34.940]  Help them get things back.
[51:35.140 --> 51:36.800]  We all have to do our bit.
[51:38.240 --> 51:38.640]  Yep.
[51:39.840 --> 51:40.640]  And especially...
[51:40.640 --> 51:41.040]  Thank you, Rachel.
[51:41.560 --> 51:42.600]  Stay strong.
[51:42.740 --> 51:43.480]  You'll get better.
[51:43.820 --> 51:43.960]  Yep.
[51:44.920 --> 51:45.520]  Aw, okay.
[51:45.520 --> 51:46.040]  What he said.
[51:47.060 --> 51:47.720]  You're welcome.
[51:49.120 --> 51:49.520]  Yeah.
[51:49.520 --> 51:50.200]  He's right.
[51:50.480 --> 51:50.840]  He's right.
[51:51.600 --> 51:53.440]  Well, Rachel, thank you for calling.
[51:53.980 --> 51:56.840]  And I think we'll move on to some other calls.
[51:56.980 --> 51:57.540]  Does that sound good?
[51:57.640 --> 51:59.040]  Yeah, I think your kid escaped, too, by the way.
[51:59.400 --> 51:59.580]  Yeah.
[51:59.760 --> 52:00.800]  And I think Sasha has escaped.
[52:00.800 --> 52:01.360]  Slithered away.
[52:02.160 --> 52:03.220]  At the moment.
[52:03.500 --> 52:04.460]  So, yeah.
[52:04.460 --> 52:04.480]  Yeah.
[52:05.580 --> 52:06.800]  Rachel, we'll talk to you soon.
[52:06.880 --> 52:07.320]  We love you.
[52:07.480 --> 52:08.280]  And thanks for the update.
[52:08.640 --> 52:10.200]  And, yeah.
[52:10.520 --> 52:12.500]  Be safe down there.
[52:12.840 --> 52:13.880]  And guard the trees.
[52:14.080 --> 52:14.180]  Okay.
[52:15.400 --> 52:16.740]  Yeah, I'm watching now.
[52:17.100 --> 52:17.500]  Wait.
[52:17.620 --> 52:17.980]  I'm ready.
[52:18.620 --> 52:19.380]  You got it.
[52:19.480 --> 52:20.160]  I know you are.
[52:20.400 --> 52:20.940]  All right.
[52:21.420 --> 52:21.780]  All right.
[52:21.960 --> 52:22.040]  Take care.
[52:23.220 --> 52:23.760]  All right.
[52:23.880 --> 52:24.480]  Love you, brother.
[52:26.260 --> 52:26.920]  Love you, too.
[52:27.260 --> 52:27.700]  All right.
[52:27.940 --> 52:29.480]  Well, that's the update from Florida.
[52:29.980 --> 52:32.320]  And it sounds like she's doing all right.
[52:32.480 --> 52:33.360]  You know, protecting trees.
[52:33.360 --> 52:33.460]  Yeah.
[52:33.560 --> 52:34.740]  Wouldn't expect that to be the issue.
[52:34.900 --> 52:38.300]  But we forget, you know.
[52:38.520 --> 52:45.460]  There's still a lot of wreckage down there from a massive hurricane that destroyed a lot of people's homes.
[52:45.920 --> 52:47.380]  It took a lot of lives, as well.
[52:48.500 --> 52:48.640]  Yeah.
[52:48.840 --> 52:49.160]  All right.
[52:49.440 --> 52:50.640]  Have another phone call, Kyle?
[52:50.800 --> 52:51.120]  All right.
[52:51.520 --> 52:52.020]  And good evening.
[52:52.180 --> 52:52.920]  You're on off the hook over time.
[52:53.020 --> 52:53.200]  Go ahead.
[52:54.300 --> 52:54.620]  Okay.
[52:54.720 --> 52:56.000]  I got rid of the calls now.
[52:56.000 --> 52:57.420]  What did we say, Rebel?
[52:57.640 --> 52:58.540]  What did we say?
[52:59.100 --> 53:00.240]  You're done for the night.
[53:02.300 --> 53:02.700]  What?
[53:03.000 --> 53:04.800]  You're showing me a box I can't read, Kyle.
[53:05.920 --> 53:07.460]  Did he hide his number somehow?
[53:08.680 --> 53:09.080]  Yes.
[53:09.460 --> 53:09.840]  Oh, okay.
[53:10.020 --> 53:10.620]  Very clever.
[53:11.920 --> 53:12.680]  Do it again.
[53:12.860 --> 53:13.900]  You'll be banned next week.
[53:14.020 --> 53:14.600]  How about that?
[53:14.780 --> 53:16.020]  Yeah, we can impose bans.
[53:16.020 --> 53:18.040]  So, 802-321-4225.
[53:18.940 --> 53:20.660]  802-321-HACK.
[53:20.820 --> 53:22.580]  I'm not going to be so trusting now.
[53:23.500 --> 53:25.060]  There's lots of people out there.
[53:25.260 --> 53:28.040]  It's unfair to hog all the time.
[53:30.620 --> 53:31.640]  Am I waiting for that?
[53:31.760 --> 53:32.440]  Do we have a call?
[53:32.780 --> 53:33.120]  Okay.
[53:33.200 --> 53:34.620]  Well, I'm waiting for that call to come in.
[53:34.980 --> 53:39.060]  It kind of makes me look like an idiot if we don't get a call after making that speech.
[53:39.360 --> 53:41.180]  Perhaps someone else has something to say.
[53:42.600 --> 53:43.360]  Well, it's true.
[53:43.500 --> 53:45.320]  Someone will think that that's how we treat callers.
[53:45.320 --> 53:45.880]  We don't.
[53:45.960 --> 53:46.960]  We're very personable.
[53:47.140 --> 53:48.360]  We'd love to hear your comments.
[53:48.500 --> 53:49.260]  Anything you observed.
[53:49.260 --> 53:50.000]  Well, that's why we're doing this.
[53:50.080 --> 53:50.860]  We're doing this for you.
[53:53.480 --> 53:53.880]  Exactly.
[53:54.240 --> 53:55.920]  We don't know who you are, but...
[53:57.100 --> 54:12.620]  There was another crazy story that went by really quick that I only managed to find and send to us at the last minute so it didn't get on the air, but Mercedes has locked faster acceleration as a feature behind a $1,200 annual paywall.
[54:13.440 --> 54:14.560]  Wait, wait, wait, wait.
[54:14.720 --> 54:15.300]  Hold on a second.
[54:15.320 --> 54:20.040]  So, if you want to accelerate fast, you have to pay extra.
[54:20.960 --> 54:21.380]  Hang on.
[54:21.460 --> 54:24.620]  What if you're in an emergency situation and you have to accelerate fast?
[54:24.880 --> 54:27.720]  You're telling me you're going to die because you didn't pay the premium?
[54:29.480 --> 54:33.040]  I don't know if you're going to die, but, you know, it's not going to be at all good for you.
[54:33.040 --> 54:40.020]  You're going to die if you're stuck on a train track and you have, like, five seconds to go and suddenly you realize, hey, I'm on a train track.
[54:40.020 --> 54:40.940]  I got to get out of here.
[54:41.240 --> 54:46.400]  And you gun the accelerator, but, you know, it only goes, like, zero to 30 in, like, 10 seconds.
[54:46.940 --> 54:47.260]  Yeah.
[54:47.420 --> 54:49.060]  You're going to get smacked by a train.
[54:49.760 --> 54:51.760]  Yeah, this story is on the verge.
[54:51.900 --> 54:52.880]  It's also on the drive.
[54:53.200 --> 55:05.080]  And apparently it improves performance by boosting output from the motors by 20 to 24 percent, increasing torque and shaving around 0.8 to 0.9 seconds off zero to 60 acceleration when in dynamic drive mode.
[55:05.080 --> 55:08.100]  And this is just a software thing.
[55:08.240 --> 55:20.840]  Like, it's a feature that your car can physically do, and all the hardware is there, but Mercedes won't unlock the ability to use that feature unless you pay them $1,200 a year on this range of cars of theirs.
[55:21.400 --> 55:26.080]  So, you know, if you're poor, your car is crippled, basically.
[55:26.340 --> 55:29.020]  Well, if you're poor, I doubt you're not buying a Mercedes in the first place.
[55:29.020 --> 55:38.200]  I think another way to look at it is perhaps this is a form of discouraging behaviors and emissions.
[55:38.800 --> 55:41.240]  I mean, what kind of...
[55:42.220 --> 55:56.760]  Like, just by disincentivizing that level of acceleration, I'm wondering what kind of fuel performance ratios, how that changes, and if actually by making it expensive, it might actually...
[55:56.760 --> 55:59.960]  it might be good for people around this vehicle.
[56:00.080 --> 56:01.220]  That's one look.
[56:01.360 --> 56:03.980]  You know, hey, we're going to put a premium on AXA.
[56:04.100 --> 56:05.000]  I mean, I understand...
[56:05.000 --> 56:14.020]  Look, I'm the last person to say that this is a good idea, that we should tier how a machine accelerates based on subscriptions.
[56:16.260 --> 56:21.500]  Not really something I would be keen on, but that could be a factor.
[56:21.500 --> 56:23.140]  I don't want Mercedes making these decisions.
[56:23.180 --> 56:24.920]  Well, think about safety and insurance.
[56:25.280 --> 56:26.120]  I mean...
[56:26.120 --> 56:29.300]  As far as fuel goes, though, I have to point out these are electric cars.
[56:29.880 --> 56:30.800]  Oh, oh, okay.
[56:31.440 --> 56:32.960]  I didn't know if it was electric.
[56:33.100 --> 56:33.620]  I thought it was gas.
[56:33.800 --> 56:34.680]  It was gas.
[56:34.920 --> 56:35.540]  Didn't mention that part.
[56:35.600 --> 56:37.240]  Okay, so they have zero emissions.
[56:37.460 --> 56:42.740]  There are two specific types of electric cars that have this thing, acceleration increase.
[56:44.920 --> 56:46.640]  But, yeah, it's...
[56:46.640 --> 56:51.900]  Here's a car, and we're going to stop it from doing a thing that it can do if you don't give us more money.
[56:53.500 --> 56:56.460]  You know, just apply that to all kinds of things.
[56:56.760 --> 56:58.360]  I mean, what if you applied it to brakes?
[56:58.800 --> 57:00.260]  Sorry, you didn't pay the brake fee.
[57:01.280 --> 57:03.500]  Welcome to the wall that you just crashed into.
[57:03.720 --> 57:04.500]  No, that's...
[57:04.500 --> 57:05.300]  They'll never do that.
[57:05.380 --> 57:07.900]  That's an extreme example, but it's the same mentality.
[57:07.900 --> 57:17.840]  You know, and if you own something, and you do own it when you buy it, you should be able to use it as it's able to be used.
[57:18.320 --> 57:24.360]  I.e., if it's able to accelerate at a certain rate, responsible or not, you should be able to do that.
[57:24.480 --> 57:28.900]  And that's part of owning a car, is you make, hopefully, responsible decisions.
[57:28.900 --> 57:39.340]  But to have some overlord telling you, oh, you have to pay us extra if you want to do this particular action, which we deem to be, you know, something that you don't need.
[57:39.980 --> 57:41.500]  You haven't bought a car then.
[57:41.500 --> 57:43.840]  You simply entered into some kind of a license agreement.
[57:45.540 --> 57:47.180]  I agree with this.
[57:47.180 --> 57:52.900]  And I really don't want to be defending this story as written necessarily.
[57:52.900 --> 58:01.580]  But now that I've been informed that it's an electric motor, acceleration with those is not necessarily the same.
[58:01.760 --> 58:06.000]  It's not hindered in the same ways that an internal combustion engine is.
[58:06.700 --> 58:23.660]  And again, I think behaviors, safety, correct the raw technical capabilities of that motor to spin from nothing to as fast as it can possibly spin without breaking apart into a million pieces.
[58:24.220 --> 58:27.200]  That technically is what you're paying for.
[58:27.320 --> 58:52.680]  But to me, it is on the manufacturer to define how exactly those components behave, not behave, because I'm talking about drivers and behavior, but how those components are to operate, the tenor, the nature of acceleration, those kinds of refinements are inherent to a particular manufacturer's design.
[58:52.680 --> 59:01.500]  So, to defend a little bit, I mean, they are defining the character of how those components are used.
[59:01.720 --> 59:18.980]  And if you just slam your foot and it goes violently forward like incredible G-forces, it's borderline unsafe, I think they do get to define how that accelerator pedal actuates that motor and so forth.
[59:19.000 --> 59:22.000]  Yeah, but that's part of the model of the car, you know, the design of that particular car.
[59:22.340 --> 59:23.520]  Either it does it or it doesn't.
[59:23.620 --> 59:27.680]  To make it an option where, okay, if you pay a little extra, then you can do this.
[59:27.900 --> 59:30.800]  Look, if you pay a little extra, then you get the feature in the car.
[59:31.020 --> 59:36.300]  But it's not something that should be turned on and turned off after you've already bought the car because the car already has the feature then.
[59:36.460 --> 59:42.240]  But I'm saying they've tuned it, they're saying, okay, we're going to sell you this car, we've tuned it like this.
[59:42.460 --> 59:47.740]  Like, it can do other things, technically, like, at a component level.
[59:48.080 --> 59:54.760]  But if you want to have this, whatever they're selling, 20% or whatever this super...
[59:55.360 --> 01:00:00.740]  I mean, Tesla did the same thing with the S or some kind of launch feature or something.
[01:00:01.160 --> 01:00:04.000]  There's other manufacturers that have done similar things.
[01:00:04.180 --> 01:00:26.920]  But this is kind of where I stop defending because I think that if you actually buy it and own it outside of all their intent and everything, I feel like you should just be able to modify it at a very, like, granular level and just basically bypass all of their,
[01:00:26.920 --> 01:00:26.940]  like...
[01:00:26.940 --> 01:00:28.300]  Yeah, either you have the feature or you don't have the feature.
[01:00:28.680 --> 01:00:29.540]  That's, okay, go ahead.
[01:00:29.740 --> 01:00:32.200]  Because it takes the spirit of modification out of it, otherwise.
[01:00:32.660 --> 01:00:41.500]  It does, but I also think this is kind of reminiscent of the discussion we were having earlier about Alexa devices and how they're not making money.
[01:00:41.760 --> 01:00:49.680]  So a few months ago, BMW decided that they were going to start selling subscriptions to heated seats.
[01:00:49.960 --> 01:00:51.240]  You own a car.
[01:00:51.960 --> 01:00:53.580]  It's got seat heaters.
[01:00:53.640 --> 01:01:02.060]  But if you don't pay them extra for this thing that already exists in the vehicle that you own, you can't access the thing that already exists in the vehicle that you own.
[01:01:02.160 --> 01:01:04.680]  And it's the same thing of why is Alexa not making money?
[01:01:04.680 --> 01:01:08.240]  Because there's not necessarily the same kind of planned obsolescence in these devices.
[01:01:08.640 --> 01:01:12.080]  So you have, like, where is the revenue stream?
[01:01:12.460 --> 01:01:19.660]  So the car makers who are busy making these bigger, better vehicles that last longer are like, wait, people aren't buying as many cars anymore.
[01:01:19.660 --> 01:01:20.840]  What can we do?
[01:01:21.180 --> 01:01:21.760]  Oh, right.
[01:01:21.820 --> 01:01:24.460]  We're going to make them subscribe to these things they already own.
[01:01:24.460 --> 01:01:29.080]  Or we're going to charge them extra for, like, Apple Play in their cars.
[01:01:29.600 --> 01:01:35.980]  Like, if I have to pay extra to connect my phone to my car, which is moot because we don't have a car.
[01:01:36.240 --> 01:01:39.620]  But regardless, if I did, I would be angry.
[01:01:39.620 --> 01:01:40.720]  And that's what I'm saying.
[01:01:40.860 --> 01:01:46.920]  There's a certain point where you have to stop nickel and diming people for every component of this thing they already have.
[01:01:47.020 --> 01:01:49.320]  I get, you know, a SiriusXM subscription.
[01:01:49.520 --> 01:01:54.620]  You pay for that because that's a subscription to a service that you can turn on or off.
[01:01:54.680 --> 01:01:56.220]  And it's a premium service.
[01:01:59.080 --> 01:02:02.880]  The rates, you know, the rate of acceleration, these are options.
[01:02:02.960 --> 01:02:05.440]  Either you opt in or you don't.
[01:02:05.580 --> 01:02:06.100]  Yeah, I agree.
[01:02:06.160 --> 01:02:08.700]  It should be a one-time thing if they do that at all.
[01:02:08.700 --> 01:02:11.020]  And if you've already opted in, you stay opted in.
[01:02:11.140 --> 01:02:11.260]  Right.
[01:02:11.480 --> 01:02:12.760]  Otherwise, you don't own the car.
[01:02:13.000 --> 01:02:15.520]  Otherwise, they own the car and they're turning it on and off.
[01:02:15.620 --> 01:02:18.740]  And again, you know, it can be controlled nefariously as well.
[01:02:19.520 --> 01:02:26.200]  It's a very bad precedent to set and that's why it's so important to come out vehemently against this now while it's still in its infancy.
[01:02:26.340 --> 01:02:26.920]  Yes, Alex?
[01:02:27.880 --> 01:02:37.360]  Alex, this just seems like such a ridiculous ploy to generate revenue on the basis of some kind of subscription, and I'm doing the air quotes, subscription model here.
[01:02:37.720 --> 01:02:58.240]  But what strikes me as particularly interesting about this is that you can foresee maybe tomorrow, next week, next month, whenever the case may be, somebody will figure out a way to access these features without having to pay for them, maybe by updating the firmware or modifying the code some way.
[01:02:58.400 --> 01:03:05.040]  There'll be something fun done through the ODB2 port or whatever it is, right?
[01:03:05.240 --> 01:03:13.300]  Or, I'm thinking even like emulating their service, you know, like kind of operating a clone of their service in parallel or something.
[01:03:13.660 --> 01:03:13.860]  Yep.
[01:03:14.160 --> 01:03:14.340]  Yeah.
[01:03:14.540 --> 01:03:26.920]  And so what will happen then is, you know, somebody will bypass whatever the security feature is that has protected these features from being universally used by people who haven't subscribed to that particular service.
[01:03:27.640 --> 01:03:34.800]  And then technically, they will have exceeded the authorization to use those features in their own car.
[01:03:35.060 --> 01:03:39.860]  And by accelerating in your own car, you could be committing a crime.
[01:03:39.860 --> 01:03:46.600]  You could be contravening the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act by simply pressing the gas pedal in your car.
[01:03:46.820 --> 01:03:48.280]  That's totally crazy.
[01:03:48.280 --> 01:03:50.860]  That's something I foresee.
[01:03:50.860 --> 01:03:51.820]  I'm calling it now.
[01:03:52.860 --> 01:03:58.100]  And I think by the end of 2023, we're going to see some idiotic cases about exactly that.
[01:03:58.240 --> 01:04:01.620]  Well, I'm thinking now of ideas of ways to use this.
[01:04:02.240 --> 01:04:06.120]  What if you had a limit to the number of times you blow your horn in a month?
[01:04:06.400 --> 01:04:08.440]  And if you exceed that limit, you pay a fee.
[01:04:08.780 --> 01:04:09.060]  Huh?
[01:04:09.260 --> 01:04:09.860]  That'd be good.
[01:04:09.940 --> 01:04:10.860]  That'd be for all of us, right?
[01:04:11.760 --> 01:04:17.400]  Or, you know, if you turn without using a turn signal, there's a violation, there's a fee you have to pay.
[01:04:17.680 --> 01:04:18.000]  You know?
[01:04:18.160 --> 01:04:19.160]  That's how you make money.
[01:04:20.860 --> 01:04:21.340]  We have a call?
[01:04:21.640 --> 01:04:22.180]  All right.
[01:04:22.520 --> 01:04:23.580]  Let's take this call.
[01:04:23.680 --> 01:04:24.000]  Good evening.
[01:04:24.180 --> 01:04:25.340]  You're on off-the-hook overtime.
[01:04:25.480 --> 01:04:25.680]  Go ahead.
[01:04:26.760 --> 01:04:27.020]  Hello.
[01:04:27.260 --> 01:04:29.200]  It's Phil from Virginia.
[01:04:29.200 --> 01:04:29.820]  How you doing?
[01:04:29.880 --> 01:04:30.140]  Hey.
[01:04:30.340 --> 01:04:31.240]  What's going on in Virginia?
[01:04:32.080 --> 01:04:34.160]  Other than mass shootings, we know about those.
[01:04:34.160 --> 01:04:35.200]  But, um...
[01:04:35.200 --> 01:04:35.560]  Yeah.
[01:04:36.420 --> 01:04:38.300]  Yeah, that's on the coast.
[01:04:38.460 --> 01:04:39.360]  I'm not near the coast.
[01:04:39.600 --> 01:04:40.740]  But, um...
[01:04:40.740 --> 01:04:42.060]  It's going all right, I guess.
[01:04:43.180 --> 01:04:43.700]  Um...
[01:04:43.700 --> 01:04:49.640]  Where you were talking about the heated seat thing, um...
[01:04:49.640 --> 01:04:58.560]  What's it keep somebody from just bypassing the chip altogether and just doing a direct line into the battery just to run it that way?
[01:04:58.560 --> 01:05:01.760]  Yeah, with a switch instead of, um...
[01:05:01.760 --> 01:05:01.960]  Uh...
[01:05:01.960 --> 01:05:02.480]  Running...
[01:05:02.480 --> 01:05:04.020]  Running, um...
[01:05:04.020 --> 01:05:07.400]  Through an integrated like, uh...
[01:05:07.400 --> 01:05:08.560]  Infotainment system.
[01:05:09.500 --> 01:05:10.600]  Because, essentially, it is a...
[01:05:10.600 --> 01:05:11.880]  It's a coil that needs...
[01:05:11.880 --> 01:05:12.520]  That needs energy.
[01:05:12.740 --> 01:05:13.580]  So, I mean, there's...
[01:05:13.580 --> 01:05:14.860]  There's ways to bypass it.
[01:05:15.120 --> 01:05:19.300]  And, of course, you'd want to do a very nice wiring job and install.
[01:05:19.520 --> 01:05:20.740]  But, um...
[01:05:20.740 --> 01:05:21.100]  Certainly.
[01:05:21.300 --> 01:05:22.280]  It is a...
[01:05:22.280 --> 01:05:23.900]  A very simple...
[01:05:24.600 --> 01:05:25.080]  Um...
[01:05:25.080 --> 01:05:25.360]  Uh...
[01:05:25.360 --> 01:05:26.900]  At a basic level.
[01:05:27.080 --> 01:05:28.480]  Presumably, it's just a...
[01:05:28.480 --> 01:05:29.340]  A form of...
[01:05:29.340 --> 01:05:31.520]  A heating element that needs electricity.
[01:05:32.860 --> 01:05:33.080]  Yeah.
[01:05:33.960 --> 01:05:34.680]  You can, like...
[01:05:34.680 --> 01:05:35.260]  You know...
[01:05:36.020 --> 01:05:40.480]  If you can, like, solder, like, a couple wires together to, like...
[01:05:40.480 --> 01:05:43.900]  From a battery to a motor there's something to keep you from doing it.
[01:05:44.180 --> 01:05:44.700]  You know what I mean?
[01:05:45.840 --> 01:05:46.820]  It's, um...
[01:05:47.540 --> 01:05:50.080]  It doesn't seem that difficult.
[01:05:50.760 --> 01:05:52.280]  I mean, I...
[01:05:52.280 --> 01:05:52.920]  I...
[01:05:52.920 --> 01:05:55.720]  It is overkill, though, but...
[01:05:56.360 --> 01:05:56.920]  I don't know.
[01:05:57.120 --> 01:05:57.780]  It's, um...
[01:05:58.480 --> 01:06:00.520]  Well, it's like, um...
[01:06:00.520 --> 01:06:02.960]  We're talking about, um...
[01:06:02.960 --> 01:06:05.060]  Alexa earlier, too.
[01:06:05.920 --> 01:06:06.520]  Uh...
[01:06:06.520 --> 01:06:09.380]  Did you know Artemis 1 has a version of Alexa on it?
[01:06:11.840 --> 01:06:13.260]  The Orion capsule?
[01:06:13.620 --> 01:06:14.240]  Uh, yes.
[01:06:16.460 --> 01:06:18.440]  Yeah, so, you know, just, uh...
[01:06:18.440 --> 01:06:19.980]  Hope they don't say Alexa a lot.
[01:06:20.480 --> 01:06:20.900]  Alexa...
[01:06:20.900 --> 01:06:21.300]  Who's...
[01:06:21.300 --> 01:06:22.500]  Who's saying Alexa...
[01:06:22.500 --> 01:06:24.420]  There's only dummies on there.
[01:06:24.600 --> 01:06:25.220]  You know, mannequins.
[01:06:26.240 --> 01:06:27.680]  So, who's talking to Alexa?
[01:06:28.100 --> 01:06:29.820]  Well, once they have people on there...
[01:06:29.820 --> 01:06:29.980]  I think...
[01:06:29.980 --> 01:06:30.660]  On the next flight.
[01:06:31.020 --> 01:06:32.640]  There was an aim, uh...
[01:06:32.640 --> 01:06:34.200]  To have some very, uh...
[01:06:34.200 --> 01:06:35.880]  Variation of a, um...
[01:06:35.880 --> 01:06:36.780]  A voice assistant.
[01:06:37.120 --> 01:06:38.980]  Something you could speak to...
[01:06:38.980 --> 01:06:39.200]  To...
[01:06:39.200 --> 01:06:39.760]  To help.
[01:06:39.980 --> 01:06:40.960]  Hold on a second.
[01:06:41.180 --> 01:06:44.580]  They literally have mission control to talk to.
[01:06:44.800 --> 01:06:45.580]  And they need Alexa?
[01:06:46.060 --> 01:06:46.360]  Yeah, actually...
[01:06:46.360 --> 01:06:48.240]  Mission control can answer any question they have.
[01:06:48.860 --> 01:06:49.460]  You know?
[01:06:49.660 --> 01:06:50.880]  What do you need Alexa for?
[01:06:50.880 --> 01:06:52.460]  Yeah, probably smarter, too.
[01:06:53.420 --> 01:06:56.040]  I mean, hell, if I had mission control, I wouldn't buy an Alexa.
[01:06:57.680 --> 01:07:01.960]  And you know, maybe mission control can do this while they're not flying spaceships.
[01:07:02.080 --> 01:07:02.660]  They can...
[01:07:02.660 --> 01:07:03.660]  They can...
[01:07:03.660 --> 01:07:04.920]  I think this might have been...
[01:07:04.920 --> 01:07:08.360]  It might have been part of a media blitz to kind of, uh...
[01:07:08.360 --> 01:07:13.000]  make money for Alexa to be somewhat profitable or break even.
[01:07:13.240 --> 01:07:13.460]  Uh-huh.
[01:07:13.900 --> 01:07:14.620]  Well, it didn't work.
[01:07:16.160 --> 01:07:19.100]  Well, here's a here's another scary thing about the Onimus thing.
[01:07:19.140 --> 01:07:20.440]  It's all like touchscreens.
[01:07:22.060 --> 01:07:22.520]  Right?
[01:07:22.720 --> 01:07:26.420]  So there's no, like, electromechanical buttons or anything like that.
[01:07:26.640 --> 01:07:28.800]  So, if those screens go out, what do you do?
[01:07:30.400 --> 01:07:31.600]  Hopefully, there's a backup.
[01:07:31.980 --> 01:07:34.940]  I mean, I'd hate to put all my eggs in one basket on that.
[01:07:35.600 --> 01:07:36.060]  Yeah.
[01:07:36.300 --> 01:07:40.440]  I think they have a lot of tablets and stuff, too, that can maybe replicate the same screens.
[01:07:40.740 --> 01:07:42.440]  There's, um...
[01:07:42.440 --> 01:07:45.640]  Certainly, there might be some, um...
[01:07:45.640 --> 01:07:52.580]  smaller control surfaces that are actual sort of soft keys and so forth that can do various things.
[01:07:52.840 --> 01:07:55.300]  But this is definitely something that, um...
[01:07:55.300 --> 01:07:57.820]  is a concern, and I'm sure they put some thought to it.
[01:07:57.980 --> 01:08:06.420]  But it's really awesome that this is happening, that Artemis is currently circling the moon, and that we're going to send people back up there in a couple of years.
[01:08:06.420 --> 01:08:08.040]  It's just so thrilling.
[01:08:08.500 --> 01:08:13.520]  And it's also really cool that Artemis, uh, in Greek mythology, is the twin sister of Apollo.
[01:08:13.680 --> 01:08:14.180]  Of Apollo.
[01:08:14.380 --> 01:08:16.800]  And, uh, that we've committed to sending a woman to the moon.
[01:08:16.940 --> 01:08:17.400]  It's just...
[01:08:17.820 --> 01:08:18.180]  It's...
[01:08:18.180 --> 01:08:23.260]  It feels good to be doing all these things, and I really look forward to, um, uh, to Artemis 2 and Artemis 3.
[01:08:24.300 --> 01:08:24.560]  Yeah.
[01:08:25.080 --> 01:08:26.880]  That's what SpaceX was involved.
[01:08:27.880 --> 01:08:29.480]  Well, you know, the more the merrier.
[01:08:30.080 --> 01:08:33.720]  You know, I don't have any problem with private enterprise being a part of this as well.
[01:08:33.760 --> 01:08:35.000]  I think that's how we move forward.
[01:08:35.000 --> 01:08:39.420]  Uh, yeah, if the people running them are jerks, that's, that's, uh, part for the course.
[01:08:39.420 --> 01:08:42.540]  But, um, the important thing is to be making these advancements.
[01:08:42.700 --> 01:08:45.340]  And what SpaceX has done is really pretty incredible.
[01:08:45.720 --> 01:08:52.020]  Yeah, I think specifically that company is a lot more than one, one, uh, uh, figurehead.
[01:08:52.400 --> 01:08:53.240]  Unlike WikiLeaks.
[01:08:53.400 --> 01:09:01.380]  I think people need to give a little bit more credit to the sheer volume of people that have, that have worked at that company in particular.
[01:09:03.860 --> 01:09:04.340]  Yeah.
[01:09:04.900 --> 01:09:11.080]  Um, speaking of, uh, Elon Musk, um, have you guys abandoned Twitter yet or still on air?
[01:09:12.120 --> 01:09:18.620]  Um, I don't think any of us have abandoned Twitter per se, but just looking at options, other options.
[01:09:19.720 --> 01:09:20.700]  That's it on, maybe?
[01:09:21.140 --> 01:09:22.320]  Yeah, we've talked about that.
[01:09:23.060 --> 01:09:23.540]  Yeah.
[01:09:23.900 --> 01:09:25.200]  Yeah, we're definitely watching...
[01:09:25.200 --> 01:09:25.500]  IRC.
[01:09:27.340 --> 01:09:28.060]  What was that?
[01:09:28.840 --> 01:09:30.400]  Just go back to IRC.
[01:09:30.880 --> 01:09:32.060]  That's what I was suggesting.
[01:09:32.520 --> 01:09:37.440]  You know, because a lot of the same mentality on Twitter now is pretty much what we've seen on IRC over the past few decades.
[01:09:37.580 --> 01:09:38.760]  Some of us have never left.
[01:09:39.160 --> 01:09:39.560]  Yeah.
[01:09:39.740 --> 01:09:42.740]  I think it's just another phase, like Facebook was a phase.
[01:09:44.200 --> 01:09:47.720]  And, and, um, I mean, well, uh, MySpace was a phase.
[01:09:47.860 --> 01:09:47.960]  Mm-hmm.
[01:09:48.080 --> 01:09:54.000]  Um, before that was like, uh, MSN Messenger or Yahoo Messenger and so on.
[01:09:54.060 --> 01:09:55.200]  I think it's just a phase.
[01:09:55.320 --> 01:09:56.700]  I think people are just tired of it.
[01:09:56.940 --> 01:09:58.160]  Oh, that's exactly what it is.
[01:09:58.160 --> 01:09:58.460]  Yes.
[01:09:58.620 --> 01:09:59.000]  Absolutely.
[01:10:00.040 --> 01:10:18.020]  Yeah, when I listen to stuff on the, um, on my, on my Echo, the, um, there's like a disclaimer from, like, tune in, like, if you want to opt out of our targeting, targeted, um, ads and, uh, all this other stuff, just call stuff, and it's like, well, why can't I just be opt out as the fault,
[01:10:18.220 --> 01:10:20.160]  and you give me the option to opt in?
[01:10:20.780 --> 01:10:21.480]  You know what I mean?
[01:10:21.700 --> 01:10:22.780]  Well, nobody would opt in.
[01:10:24.000 --> 01:10:24.360]  Yeah.
[01:10:25.440 --> 01:10:25.800]  True.
[01:10:25.980 --> 01:10:29.840]  They have to sort of force you, you know, that's, that's kind of, uh, how, how it all works.
[01:10:31.900 --> 01:10:43.800]  Well, I, well, if I could just pick up radio stations I want to listen to with a regular antenna, I'd just be happy with it, but, you know, it's got it, it's got its place, I guess.
[01:10:44.300 --> 01:10:50.500]  Yeah, it does, but sometimes, you know, the ads are a bit much, as with so many services.
[01:10:52.500 --> 01:11:03.620]  I was watching some, um, some on Discovery Plus, like, uh, the other day, and, like, these, uh, ads came up about how, uh, liberals, liberals hate Asians.
[01:11:05.380 --> 01:11:06.760]  What kind of ad is that?
[01:11:07.580 --> 01:11:19.280]  I don't know, it was weird, it's like, it's like, uh, did you know that Joe, Joe Biden is passing along to make your kids their Asian waiting long for stuff, and...
[01:11:19.280 --> 01:11:22.280]  This was during the election season, or after?
[01:11:35.220 --> 01:11:36.340]  Yeah, it's weird.
[01:11:36.600 --> 01:11:46.780]  I mean, I'm, I, I get, like, sometimes I get Chinese ads, you know, watching streaming stuff, or something in Spanish, and I'm just like, I don't know what's going on, it's weird.
[01:11:50.060 --> 01:11:52.060]  It's, it's some of the weirdest things, I mean.
[01:11:52.220 --> 01:11:55.980]  Well, considering I don't pay attention to most ads in the first place, they might as well be in Chinese.
[01:11:56.960 --> 01:11:57.880]  Yeah, I don't know.
[01:11:59.220 --> 01:12:09.900]  It, it makes me wonder, it makes me wonder if, like, um, maybe, uh, the software, uh, I don't know, I mean, let's, let's, let's verse, electronics Chinese made anyway.
[01:12:11.080 --> 01:12:23.380]  So, I just wonder if, um, what, with smart TVs, reaching in smart TVs, so cheap, it's called they, like, you know, take these data stuff you put into, they even activate the TV, and they sell it off, right?
[01:12:25.980 --> 01:12:39.900]  It just makes me wonder if the companies, um, the Chinese companies make these TVs or whatever, just like, you know, just like, um, maybe there's a bug in, I don't know, it's just weird.
[01:12:41.980 --> 01:12:43.260]  Just some weird stuff.
[01:12:43.740 --> 01:12:48.720]  Well, um, I, I wouldn't, I wouldn't get too, um, too overwhelmed by it.
[01:12:49.000 --> 01:13:16.980]  Do imagine that, uh, it's a pretty vast market and, and that, that a lot of these, uh, complex electronics are made all over and assembled and designed by a lot of different companies and, and, uh, you know, it's end users are also pretty, uh, I think keenly aware of how and,
[01:13:17.020 --> 01:13:20.500]  and what's going on with the traffic that's coming out of their devices.
[01:13:20.500 --> 01:13:31.960]  You know, there's, there's a, a disincentive to build something that is completely buggy and backdoored because people are not going to want to buy something like that.
[01:13:32.160 --> 01:13:34.800]  So I understand kind of what you're saying.
[01:13:34.800 --> 01:13:53.860]  There's a huge emphasis on, um, you know, what is going on with the things that, uh, we're making offshore and so forth and what levels of control we have and, and what it, and, and of course the sizes are, are changing and the, the capabilities ever increasing.
[01:13:54.000 --> 01:14:12.620]  So it can get, um, it can get to be, uh, something that you might be concerned with, but there are, I think a lot of brands and a lot of trusted manufacturers out there supplying some of these devices that do care quite a bit about retaining customers,
[01:14:12.760 --> 01:14:26.840]  people that will come back, um, you know, because they had a good experience with, with their electronics, but you're not alone in, in, uh, questioning some of that highly affordable, you know, electronics.
[01:14:27.080 --> 01:14:35.980]  We're very lucky for, for a lot of the consumer products that we have access to and, uh, it is all, almost magical sometimes.
[01:14:35.980 --> 01:14:38.980]  So it does seem like it's too good to be true.
[01:14:39.180 --> 01:14:55.520]  You know, something has to be benefiting somebody for this to, to be so great, but, um, you know, you, you should have some faith that, you know, there, there's a, a lot of people that are as concerned as you and, and a fair level of, of scrutiny on, on these kinds of,
[01:14:55.560 --> 01:14:56.300]  uh, devices.
[01:14:57.540 --> 01:14:57.940]  Yeah.
[01:14:58.500 --> 01:15:00.780]  Well, what do you think about the FTX thing?
[01:15:00.880 --> 01:15:18.740]  Do you think, um, crypto's dead now or is it, you know, do you, do you think it needs to be, like, uh, regulated with, like, something like FDIC or something or just to keep stuff from, I think,
[01:15:22.130 --> 01:15:23.670]  you want me to take that one?
[01:15:25.130 --> 01:15:25.410]  Yeah.
[01:15:25.490 --> 01:15:26.630]  Publicly traded entities.
[01:15:26.930 --> 01:15:27.010]  Yeah.
[01:15:27.090 --> 01:15:27.630]  Go ahead, Alex.
[01:15:27.770 --> 01:15:43.350]  But I just think, yeah, publicly, you know, people building businesses on, on, on crypto, you know, they're, they are held to different standards than people that are just, you know, accepting or, or trading, um, for cryptocurrency so they can use it.
[01:15:46.770 --> 01:15:52.310]  Yeah, but the, you know, an investor should have some kind of, like, you know, protection though, you know what I mean?
[01:15:53.510 --> 01:15:55.450]  Um, yeah.
[01:15:56.690 --> 01:16:14.110]  Yeah, I, I think that, to a certain extent, I think that the, um, you did, a lot of people have been talking about, you know, why, why isn't crypto, uh, cryptocurrency, FDIC insured, or some kind of analog, uh, to that, but you gotta remember, you know,
[01:16:14.170 --> 01:16:16.790]  that's the, the federal deposit insurance corporation, right?
[01:16:16.870 --> 01:16:30.950]  So there's, there's an aspect of the federal government that comes into play here, and FDIC insurance is only available to banks because they are complying with federal regulations that govern the banking system itself.
[01:16:30.950 --> 01:16:38.670]  and that includes, you know, how, how money is transferred, that includes, uh, having certain reserves on hands, things like that.
[01:16:38.810 --> 01:16:58.590]  So you only have that kind of protection when you have a heavy hand regulation, and FDIC type regulation is the very sort of thing that cryptocurrency was designed to, uh, avoid in many respects because they did not want to, these, these currencies and,
[01:16:58.590 --> 01:17:05.070]  and the exchanges and the platforms did not want to be beholden or responsible to any one individual government.
[01:17:05.390 --> 01:17:17.930]  And so to have something like this in place, I think it would be great, uh, because it would definitely allow the cryptocurrency market to flourish in, in a more protected and safe manner.
[01:17:18.210 --> 01:17:33.410]  But you can't really do that without having some kind of regulation or some kind of, uh, hand of the government involved, uh, the other way of doing this would be to, to do it privately or in perhaps some, some decentralized manner, uh, with, you know,
[01:17:33.970 --> 01:17:37.510]  crowdsourced insurance or, or some kind of crazy scheme like that.
[01:17:37.830 --> 01:17:43.770]  Um, that's the only way I could see some kind of measure of protection coming into place for cryptocurrencies.
[01:17:45.750 --> 01:17:46.210]  Yeah.
[01:17:46.850 --> 01:17:54.310]  I think one of the problems with it is like it's, um, it's so volatile that, uh, well, it's like stock now.
[01:17:54.490 --> 01:18:04.470]  It's so volatile that just somebody tweeting something on Twitter under, uh, a verified check mark to make news billions overnight.
[01:18:04.810 --> 01:18:07.110]  Yeah, but, you know, the stock market works that way too.
[01:18:07.290 --> 01:18:14.930]  You know, the slightest thing, uh, economic, uh, forecast can, can influence the stock market and all kinds of people are affected by that.
[01:18:16.750 --> 01:18:34.170]  Well, I understand the forecast part, but the, um, you know, where somebody like paid, um, paid Twitter $8 and sent the, uh, really verified, um, verified, uh, account and said, well, everything's free and...
[01:18:34.170 --> 01:18:34.490]  Right.
[01:18:34.910 --> 01:18:37.350]  ...then, uh, you know, the stock tanks...
[01:18:37.350 --> 01:18:42.250]  Which is exactly what people expected to happen when, when that policy was announced on Twitter.
[01:18:43.070 --> 01:18:44.010]  Yeah, I know.
[01:18:44.370 --> 01:18:50.670]  It's, um, it's, it, it, it, it, there's a point to that little check mark.
[01:18:50.970 --> 01:19:01.790]  I mean, it, it, it, it wasn't a status thing, it's to ensure that the person that you are talking to or that you are reading is the actual person.
[01:19:01.970 --> 01:19:02.430]  You know what I mean?
[01:19:02.690 --> 01:19:02.970]  Right.
[01:19:03.930 --> 01:19:09.510]  It's, and, um, I don't know, I don't know what's going to happen to Twitter in the next couple weeks.
[01:19:09.550 --> 01:19:13.350]  I, I really, I really am not worried about it.
[01:19:13.450 --> 01:19:21.770]  I know, like, it's going up in the news because, well, you know, Twitter and I don't know, everybody's going to be like 16-year-old girls and want to tweet all day.
[01:19:22.370 --> 01:19:27.990]  But, uh, you know, it just really doesn't affect my life that much if Twitter's down or not.
[01:19:28.010 --> 01:19:31.270]  Well, that's, that's a good place to be then when these things don't affect your life that much.
[01:19:31.390 --> 01:19:32.110]  That's how it should be.
[01:19:33.010 --> 01:19:33.370]  Yeah.
[01:19:34.450 --> 01:19:42.050]  Um, I think, and to be honest, I think that Elon must be actually screwing this whole thing up so that you get out of it.
[01:19:43.130 --> 01:19:43.570]  Yeah.
[01:19:44.070 --> 01:19:49.690]  He's, he's definitely got his, his personality quirks and, uh, he has way too much power.
[01:19:49.890 --> 01:19:52.410]  It's not the first billionaire to have way too much power.
[01:19:55.090 --> 01:20:01.990]  Um, it's like, uh, if you got enough money, you get mad at, uh, like, you know, like on Facebook, you get banned or something like that.
[01:20:02.090 --> 01:20:06.830]  You just go buy, buy something out or just, um, start your own thing.
[01:20:07.430 --> 01:20:11.170]  And then you tank it because you don't know what you're doing.
[01:20:11.170 --> 01:20:14.270]  And then you did it as like a little kid thing.
[01:20:14.390 --> 01:20:17.130]  Like, well, if I, if I can't play, I'm taking the ball with me.
[01:20:17.950 --> 01:20:22.110]  Um, but you know, it's just, I don't know.
[01:20:22.230 --> 01:20:24.570]  I, I don't know.
[01:20:24.670 --> 01:20:30.110]  I mean, this kind of stuff didn't really happen with, you know, bulletin boards and stuff like that.
[01:20:30.790 --> 01:20:33.850]  Uh, well, I mean, Baltimore doesn't have this kind of power.
[01:20:34.110 --> 01:20:40.910]  If you weren't based on ad revenue, money, if you pissed off a sysadmin, uh, good luck getting back onto the board.
[01:20:41.050 --> 01:20:43.830]  You know, anybody with power will abuse that power at some point.
[01:20:44.930 --> 01:20:45.410]  Yeah.
[01:20:45.750 --> 01:20:47.810]  It's just, we give this guy way too much power.
[01:20:48.390 --> 01:20:49.210]  Way too.
[01:20:49.390 --> 01:20:49.630]  Yeah.
[01:20:49.990 --> 01:20:50.370]  Insane.
[01:20:51.950 --> 01:20:56.370]  Well, I, I, I'm hoping FTC would step in.
[01:20:58.130 --> 01:20:58.930]  Well, I don't know.
[01:20:59.110 --> 01:21:09.290]  Actually, well, it's starting to seem like, you know, our football teams are now like, you know, tanking the rest of the schedule just so they can get a better draft pick.
[01:21:10.750 --> 01:21:15.210]  I, I guess that's a strategy, but it's a, it's, it's one that is not an honest strategy.
[01:21:16.450 --> 01:21:16.790]  Yeah.
[01:21:17.170 --> 01:21:20.290]  I think it, I think it's what he's doing.
[01:21:20.370 --> 01:21:24.190]  He needs to be investigated a little bit because it just doesn't seem right.
[01:21:24.470 --> 01:21:25.670]  You know, it don't sound right to me.
[01:21:26.710 --> 01:21:32.270]  He should have never had said that on Twitter, well, I'm going to buy him out.
[01:21:34.030 --> 01:21:36.830]  And if he, yeah, he should have said it was just a joke.
[01:21:37.550 --> 01:21:40.770]  Because I think it's what it was, it was a joke that got out of hand with him.
[01:21:42.010 --> 01:21:45.550]  When he initially said he was going to buy Twitter, you think that was a joke?
[01:21:49.170 --> 01:21:52.650]  I, with him, yeah, I think it was, it would have been a joke.
[01:21:53.330 --> 01:21:58.190]  It's pretty funny if that, if that was a joke and he didn't really mean to do this, he certainly tried to get out of it.
[01:21:59.930 --> 01:22:11.470]  So, yeah, you know, it's, you got to put a lot of responsibility on the Twitter board who insisted that he go ahead with the sale at this hugely overvalued price.
[01:22:11.750 --> 01:22:16.490]  And the reasons are obvious because they'd make out like bandits and probably are bandits themselves.
[01:22:16.490 --> 01:22:26.930]  and, you know, now they've profited nicely and the whole thing is going up in flames as a result.
[01:22:27.150 --> 01:22:28.970]  And it's not a surprise.
[01:22:30.490 --> 01:22:31.070]  Yep.
[01:22:31.370 --> 01:22:42.030]  I mean, it's rich people doing rich people things and I don't know, me having a Twitter account is not really up there on what I need to worry about right now.
[01:22:42.030 --> 01:22:46.630]  No, it's, it's, it's, it should be just, uh, you know, just a distraction at best.
[01:22:47.770 --> 01:22:48.170]  Yeah.
[01:22:48.350 --> 01:22:52.690]  I mean, I'm, uh, I've been doing surgery on the get rid of skin cancer.
[01:22:53.030 --> 01:22:53.470]  Uh-huh.
[01:22:54.050 --> 01:22:57.690]  And, um, yeah, I just, I'm just keeping it warm.
[01:22:57.810 --> 01:23:09.790]  Warming, but, you know, it's just, uh, I mean, every, every day, uh, you're more about politicians complaining about Twitter and, and, oh, Twitter did Twitter that.
[01:23:09.930 --> 01:23:13.270]  And I was like, well, dude, I mean, I I got problems I need solved now.
[01:23:13.270 --> 01:23:15.830]  I don't care if you got Twitter or not.
[01:23:17.010 --> 01:23:19.250]  We, we need to stop taking it so seriously.
[01:23:19.510 --> 01:23:23.110]  I mean, political statements should never be made on Twitter, I don't think.
[01:23:23.370 --> 01:23:23.630]  Yeah.
[01:23:23.730 --> 01:23:28.070]  I see, I see presidents of nations being quoted from something they said on Twitter.
[01:23:28.330 --> 01:23:34.010]  We should just not use that as, as a definitive, uh, a way of, of, of making a statement.
[01:23:34.910 --> 01:23:35.370]  Yeah.
[01:23:35.650 --> 01:23:47.270]  It's like, uh, it's like, I don't remember any of what's going on with, like, my, uh, my space or, you know, um, Yahoo instant message or anything like that, Yahoo chat.
[01:23:48.030 --> 01:23:53.810]  It's like, I don't know, I don't know what's so special about, I mean, I like Facebook.
[01:23:54.190 --> 01:23:59.850]  I don't know why I like to put my pictures up and talking to everybody, but, you know, I it's not something that I need.
[01:24:00.210 --> 01:24:05.350]  I mean, it's not, I'll just go on to the next, next thing, you know?
[01:24:05.630 --> 01:24:06.350]  Right, exactly.
[01:24:06.650 --> 01:24:17.990]  It's not, I, it's just, it's not really based on anything either, just, you know, trading, trading information about people, right?
[01:24:19.250 --> 01:24:26.010]  It's not, it's not like, um, it's not like a, like the computer industry, which is like, has some of physical, you know what I mean?
[01:24:27.710 --> 01:24:36.350]  It's, um, it's based on, it's set, um, it, um, uh, uh, imagined value over somebody's data.
[01:24:37.410 --> 01:24:38.090]  Pretty much.
[01:24:38.270 --> 01:24:42.270]  I think that, that's a, that's a good note to end on because that's what this is all about.
[01:24:43.170 --> 01:24:43.970]  Imagined value.
[01:24:44.330 --> 01:24:45.950]  It's, it's, uh, it's not real.
[01:24:46.510 --> 01:24:47.790]  We should treat it as such.
[01:24:49.270 --> 01:24:50.450]  Anyway, thanks for the call.
[01:24:50.650 --> 01:24:53.370]  We're gonna, we're gonna sign off for the night because I think we're all tired now.
[01:24:53.450 --> 01:24:54.250]  Oh, okay, I'm sorry.
[01:24:54.750 --> 01:24:55.390]  No, that's fine.
[01:24:55.670 --> 01:24:57.010]  Um, you too.
[01:24:57.470 --> 01:24:58.570]  Yeah, enjoy it down there.
[01:24:59.490 --> 01:25:00.690]  Yeah, I'm gonna try it too.
[01:25:01.310 --> 01:25:01.710]  Cool.
[01:25:02.750 --> 01:25:03.310]  All right.
[01:25:03.550 --> 01:25:04.790]  All right, we'll talk to you next time.
[01:25:05.690 --> 01:25:06.890]  All right, you have a good one.
[01:25:07.050 --> 01:25:07.290]  You too.
[01:25:07.450 --> 01:25:07.730]  Take care.
[01:25:08.610 --> 01:25:11.930]  And that's gonna just about do it for us here on Off the Hook Overtime.
[01:25:13.110 --> 01:25:14.310]  Don't overvalue things.
[01:25:14.470 --> 01:25:15.850]  No, I, I never do.
[01:25:17.090 --> 01:25:19.690]  Any, any last words from the folks out in Skypland?
[01:25:20.490 --> 01:25:21.150]  Yeah, sure.
[01:25:21.290 --> 01:25:26.590]  Just hope everybody has a happy Thanksgiving tomorrow, happy, healthy, all that.
[01:25:28.350 --> 01:25:29.950]  Don't forget about giving Tuesday.
[01:25:31.010 --> 01:25:38.210]  And, um, yeah, I think at the same time, not overvaluing things is a very important watchword.
[01:25:38.830 --> 01:25:40.130]  Yes, words of wisdom.
[01:25:40.290 --> 01:25:40.850]  Words of wisdom.
[01:25:41.150 --> 01:25:41.310]  Indeed.
[01:25:42.370 --> 01:25:42.630]  All right.
[01:25:42.890 --> 01:25:45.690]  Well, write to us, OTH at 2600.com.
[01:25:46.270 --> 01:25:49.670]  We will see you hopefully next week.
[01:25:50.310 --> 01:25:53.690]  Have a great holiday and try to have fun.
[01:25:53.950 --> 01:25:56.650]  Make a donation to WBAI.org.
[01:25:57.210 --> 01:26:00.090]  Yes, give to WBAI.org is the official website.
[01:26:00.630 --> 01:26:05.210]  And, um, we will, uh, we'll be back next week.
[01:26:05.610 --> 01:26:05.850]  Good night.