[00:00.540 --> 00:01.940]  ...until 4 p.m.
[00:03.340 --> 00:07.640]  WBAI will be streaming 24-7 at WBAI.org.
[00:08.000 --> 00:23.000]  Okay, so for those people who are going to make phone calls tomorrow and say, what happened to WBAI, I'm saying again, the reason why you cannot tune to WBAI at 9 p.m.
[00:23.180 --> 00:24.620]  between the hours of 9 p.m.
[00:24.740 --> 00:27.000]  and 4 p.m., 9 a.m.
[00:27.100 --> 00:28.820]  to 4 p.m., sorry, 9 a.m.
[00:28.900 --> 00:29.540]  to 4 p.m.
[00:29.540 --> 00:34.520]  is due to transmitter maintenance upkeep.
[00:35.420 --> 00:42.940]  And that's something that usually happens during the wee hours of the morning, but things are the way they are.
[00:43.180 --> 00:44.280]  They're doing it now.
[00:44.520 --> 00:47.780]  So just keep in mind for that, okay?
[00:48.620 --> 00:49.340]  All right.
[00:49.500 --> 00:50.860]  It is 7 p.m.
[00:50.940 --> 00:57.980]  Stay tuned for Off the Hook here on WBAI New York, 99.5 FM, and WBAI.org online.
[00:58.000 --> 00:58.840]  Stay tuned.
[01:18.970 --> 01:26.670]  The number you have reached, 293-000-000, is not in service.
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[01:41.010 --> 01:47.070]  The number you have reached, 99.5 WBAI, is now off the hook.
[01:52.490 --> 01:57.010]  The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[01:57.910 --> 02:02.510]  I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a cough.
[02:03.270 --> 02:05.330]  We couldn't get much worse.
[02:08.150 --> 02:10.750]  Did it bump, but the best is paid for worse.
[02:11.310 --> 02:13.250]  I hope that's understood.
[02:13.470 --> 02:14.270]  One day, let's go!
[02:39.450 --> 02:41.090]  And a very good evening to everybody.
[02:41.270 --> 02:42.770]  The program is Off the Hook.
[02:43.090 --> 02:46.410]  Emmanuel, we'll stand here with you on this Wednesday evening.
[02:46.610 --> 02:48.090]  Joined tonight by Kyle.
[02:48.510 --> 02:49.710]  Yes, you guessed.
[02:50.010 --> 02:52.330]  And over there in Skypeland, we have Rob T.
[02:52.450 --> 02:52.850]  Firefly.
[02:53.370 --> 02:54.250]  Good evening.
[02:54.570 --> 02:55.230]  And we have Gila.
[02:55.610 --> 02:56.210]  Good evening.
[02:56.610 --> 02:57.750]  Alex is on assignment.
[02:57.750 --> 02:59.530]  We will not be hearing from him this week.
[03:00.230 --> 03:03.870]  However, I did get to hang out with him quite a bit last week.
[03:04.810 --> 03:07.650]  So I'm welcoming the reprieve.
[03:08.610 --> 03:12.630]  We actually went out to Pennsylvania to visit our friend Virgil Griffin.
[03:13.030 --> 03:13.930]  And that was quite...
[03:13.930 --> 03:15.890]  Kyle, you were there too, although you weren't on the list.
[03:15.990 --> 03:16.870]  So you couldn't get into the prison.
[03:17.150 --> 03:18.490]  Most elite club in town.
[03:19.810 --> 03:22.230]  But yeah, you got to hang out in a coffee shop.
[03:22.310 --> 03:23.230]  So it wasn't all bad.
[03:23.610 --> 03:24.470]  I was in the area.
[03:24.750 --> 03:24.950]  Yeah.
[03:24.950 --> 03:27.630]  So it was good to see him.
[03:27.730 --> 03:31.410]  And for those who are concerned about him, he's doing well.
[03:31.650 --> 03:35.090]  I mean, he's not enjoying prison or anything like that.
[03:35.090 --> 03:38.130]  But he is still Virgil.
[03:38.270 --> 03:39.730]  And that's what matters.
[03:39.730 --> 03:45.310]  And he's basically thinking and planning and writing and noticing.
[03:45.330 --> 03:48.030]  And that's what a hacker does when they're locked away.
[03:48.110 --> 03:50.530]  For those who don't know, we've talked about this case many, many times.
[03:51.130 --> 04:04.170]  It's basically, he's been locked away for a number of years because he went to North Korea and really just answered a few questions that people had about cryptocurrency, questions that you could answer on the internet.
[04:05.750 --> 04:13.330]  And, well, because Donald Trump was in power at the time and made it illegal to go to North Korea, he was able to be charged with a bunch of crimes.
[04:13.550 --> 04:16.470]  And the rest is history, I guess.
[04:16.470 --> 04:19.870]  It's an injustice, and somebody like Virgil should not be in prison.
[04:19.970 --> 04:22.010]  He should be on the college lecture circuit.
[04:22.290 --> 04:23.530]  But that's how it is.
[04:23.670 --> 04:28.930]  You guys out there in Skyplan, any questions, perhaps, since you weren't actually there?
[04:29.710 --> 04:30.150]  Yeah.
[04:30.370 --> 04:33.490]  I mean, you've known Virgil for a long time, obviously.
[04:33.870 --> 04:35.330]  And I believe...
[04:35.330 --> 04:38.570]  Am I correct in thinking this is the first time you've seen him since he was arrested?
[04:38.570 --> 04:50.150]  This was the first time I'd seen him since the night he talked to the FBI voluntarily and basically told them everything he did because he thought that was the thing he should do.
[04:50.710 --> 04:58.290]  And they turned around months later and used it against him and arrested him when he was coming to visit his family at Thanksgiving.
[04:58.850 --> 05:01.550]  So I hadn't seen him for a few years.
[05:02.650 --> 05:10.510]  I just remember he was so very happy to be able to share his experience in North Korea, just like I was when I went to North Korea.
[05:10.690 --> 05:14.770]  He had all these newspapers and souvenirs that he was handing out.
[05:14.790 --> 05:23.290]  He gave some to the FBI agents that were asking him questions about his unauthorized trip to a country that used to be legal to travel to.
[05:24.730 --> 05:27.790]  In this country, we're not used to being told we can't go places.
[05:27.790 --> 05:31.890]  So I completely understand why he did it anyway.
[05:33.430 --> 05:35.490]  But yeah, I hadn't seen him since then.
[05:35.810 --> 05:37.070]  And I was worried.
[05:37.190 --> 05:41.290]  I was very concerned about what prison might have done to him.
[05:41.610 --> 05:43.390]  And I know this system wears you down.
[05:43.510 --> 05:46.170]  I know just being put on trial like that wears you down.
[05:46.310 --> 05:48.910]  Those of you who saw him in the courtroom can certainly attest to that.
[05:50.150 --> 06:03.770]  But I think, you know, the support that he is getting and just being able to use that mind of his and know that the days are ticking, you know, and he will one day be free again.
[06:05.410 --> 06:10.190]  And can you say anything about what the experience of visiting the facility itself was like?
[06:10.270 --> 06:13.290]  I mean, obviously, we probably can't get too far into the nitty gritty, but...
[06:13.290 --> 06:18.770]  Well, actually, I can say on next week's Off the Wall, we're going to have some actualities from that.
[06:18.910 --> 06:20.910]  I didn't record inside the prison, obviously.
[06:21.090 --> 06:28.590]  But it was an interesting experience because you have to be very careful when you go in there.
[06:28.810 --> 06:30.230]  You have to follow the rules, obviously.
[06:30.510 --> 06:33.130]  You basically can't bring anything in.
[06:34.690 --> 06:37.150]  I brought a second form of ID.
[06:37.430 --> 06:39.850]  You know, I figured it would be safe to have two forms of ID.
[06:40.130 --> 06:41.570]  No, you can only bring one.
[06:42.330 --> 06:44.930]  Okay, so what do I do with the second one?
[06:44.970 --> 06:46.290]  You have to put that back in your car.
[06:47.070 --> 06:53.510]  Okay, but the car has already driven off because Kyle's in the car and he needs to spend time somewhere else, not a parking lot of a prison.
[06:55.590 --> 06:57.110]  So shenanigans like that.
[06:57.110 --> 07:00.410]  I had to basically bury my ID for a couple of hours outside.
[07:01.770 --> 07:02.850]  That's what you go through.
[07:03.310 --> 07:08.790]  Yeah, I wish Alex were here because he's been through this so many more times and he knows the system.
[07:08.790 --> 07:15.590]  And, you know, he's one of the reasons Virgil is thriving because of the support that he has shown.
[07:15.730 --> 07:29.290]  And I just think that's so typical of the hacker community that we adapt, we become lawyers, we start changing the system from within.
[07:29.890 --> 07:32.030]  And that's where the real power is.
[07:34.270 --> 07:34.670]  Absolutely.
[07:35.850 --> 07:39.070]  So what sorts of things were you able to do?
[07:39.170 --> 07:42.750]  Was it just like a brief hangout and catch up and chat?
[07:43.010 --> 07:46.650]  Well, we were able to hang out for a couple of hours and it was actually quite nice.
[07:46.790 --> 07:49.670]  You know, I was expecting the people in the prison to be hostile.
[07:49.810 --> 07:52.290]  They were actually very polite and cordial.
[07:53.370 --> 07:54.990]  So I have no complaints there.
[07:55.390 --> 07:56.170]  You know, it is a prison.
[07:56.170 --> 07:56.910]  I know that.
[07:57.070 --> 07:58.850]  And it's not a pleasant environment.
[07:59.410 --> 08:04.230]  But they did the best on that particular occasion to make people feel somewhat welcome.
[08:04.310 --> 08:04.890]  But what happens?
[08:05.030 --> 08:06.870]  And people need to understand this.
[08:07.430 --> 08:08.970]  We actually went...
[08:08.970 --> 08:09.750]  It wasn't last weekend.
[08:09.870 --> 08:11.750]  It was the weekend before Memorial Day holiday.
[08:12.350 --> 08:20.090]  What can happen and what has happened in the past is that they suddenly realize they don't have enough staff for the rest of the weekend.
[08:20.090 --> 08:25.270]  And they say, okay, all visits are over for the weekend on Saturday.
[08:25.410 --> 08:27.390]  So no visits Sunday, no visits Monday.
[08:27.590 --> 08:28.950]  I'm not saying that happened this time.
[08:29.030 --> 08:29.950]  I don't know what happened this time.
[08:30.030 --> 08:31.830]  But that has happened in the past.
[08:32.070 --> 08:42.150]  And when you consider there are people who have traveled across the country to visit their relatives, their loved ones who are in prison, and to be told, nope, sorry, we're closed.
[08:42.850 --> 08:43.730]  Sucks to be you.
[08:44.750 --> 08:48.630]  And that's what happens a lot, way too often.
[08:49.210 --> 08:50.450]  It didn't happen to us.
[08:50.510 --> 08:50.950]  We were lucky.
[08:52.790 --> 09:00.690]  So anyway, so that was an interesting event that I experienced.
[09:00.890 --> 09:04.830]  And again, I hope he gets out sooner rather than later.
[09:05.390 --> 09:06.090]  We'll see.
[09:07.050 --> 09:07.470]  Yeah.
[09:07.610 --> 09:12.690]  And just knowing that you're able to visit someone, you're still communicating.
[09:12.690 --> 09:28.750]  I think that's something Virgil's doing is taking in as much as he can and getting through the moment he's there, but also reaching out and using the resources available to him and to have folks check in.
[09:28.750 --> 09:30.890]  And that is really crucial.
[09:30.890 --> 09:40.890]  If you know anyone in a circumstance like this, reaching out, writing them as an exercise, all of those things really, really matter.
[09:41.550 --> 09:53.230]  And, you know, I look forward to a day that he is sharing a lot of what he's been reflecting on and excited about with the rest of the world outside of prison.
[09:53.230 --> 10:03.770]  Yeah, one thing, I didn't mention this, you're in this big room with lots and lots of people and the visitors are allowed to go to the vending machines and buy food for the inmates.
[10:03.890 --> 10:05.450]  Inmates are not allowed to go to the vending machines.
[10:05.610 --> 10:07.450]  They're not allowed to have cash in their hands.
[10:08.110 --> 10:22.610]  But you pay, what, $8 for a piece of pizza, and then you walk it over to the microwave, and you, you know, you hit blast on that for a couple of minutes, and then you bring it to your friend or loved one, and it's the best meal they've had in weeks.
[10:23.390 --> 10:25.250]  So that's kind of how the system works.
[10:26.690 --> 10:40.090]  All right, on another note, Kyle and I went to the Long Island Maker Faire this past weekend, which took place in Port Jefferson in Suffolk County, and it was, it was pretty awesome to see a Maker Faire again.
[10:40.850 --> 10:44.550]  Not, not as big as the World Maker Faire used to be.
[10:44.830 --> 10:49.770]  Well, and the, all the satellite and, and mini Maker Faires, they're continuing.
[10:50.050 --> 11:00.310]  So this is, uh, in the grand tradition, and, uh, wherever they take place, it's always exciting to see, um, everyone getting out there and showing and telling what they're, what they're working on.
[11:00.310 --> 11:09.930]  We have some exciting news that, um, we have been, uh, privy to, um, on the subject of, um, Maker Faire in New York City.
[11:10.630 --> 11:18.970]  Um, World Maker Faire, that's history, at the, uh, old, uh, fairgrounds in Queens, uh, or near the old fairgrounds in Queens.
[11:19.430 --> 11:23.530]  Um, but Coney Island Maker Faire, yeah.
[11:24.650 --> 11:25.910]  What do you think about that, Rob?
[11:26.110 --> 11:26.990]  What do you think about that, Gila?
[11:27.710 --> 11:29.570]  I, I, I like Coney Island.
[11:29.570 --> 11:31.210]  Coney Island Maker Faire.
[11:31.470 --> 11:32.490]  Coney Island Maker Faire.
[11:32.650 --> 11:33.590]  This, this is exciting.
[11:33.810 --> 11:36.390]  Um, is there, is there a date attached to this, uh?
[11:36.530 --> 11:37.350]  Yes, yes, there is a date.
[11:37.450 --> 11:42.530]  The date is October 7th and 8th of this year, which is a weekend.
[11:43.110 --> 11:45.550]  So, yeah, that, that's, uh, you can get more information.
[11:45.710 --> 11:47.250]  It's, it's, it's being put together right now.
[11:47.390 --> 11:52.190]  If you want to help out, if you want to spread the word, uh, ConeyIslandMakerFaire.org.
[11:52.450 --> 11:58.550]  And, of course, uh, uh, Maker Faire is spelled M-A-K-E-R-F-A-I-R-E dot O-R-G.
[11:59.730 --> 12:00.530]  ConeyIslandMakerFaire.org.
[12:00.550 --> 12:02.470]  October 7th and 8th, 2023.
[12:02.550 --> 12:08.030]  They're very aware, by the way, uh, that Coney Island is, uh, where a lot of Mr. Robot took place.
[12:08.490 --> 12:10.250]  And there will be some surprises.
[12:10.690 --> 12:12.330]  Can't say more than that at the, at the moment.
[12:12.330 --> 12:16.210]  Um, but I will read what it says on this little card that, uh, they're, they're handing out.
[12:16.330 --> 12:17.550]  A Renaissance of Wonder.
[12:17.830 --> 12:19.590]  Coney Island Maker Faire 2023.
[12:20.670 --> 12:22.870]  Hashtag C-I-M-F-2-0-2-3.
[12:23.130 --> 12:25.550]  Maker Faire is back in New York City.
[12:25.810 --> 12:27.630]  All new in America's playground.
[12:28.110 --> 12:30.550]  Uh, the, uh, greatest slideshow.
[12:30.830 --> 12:34.910]  And, um, um, I, I, I can't read this.
[12:35.030 --> 12:35.610]  It's tiny writing.
[12:35.610 --> 12:42.550]  Uh, Sideshow and, and tell on Earth, uh, comes home to the place it was always meant to be.
[12:42.650 --> 12:44.210]  The birthplace of amusement.
[12:44.530 --> 12:45.870]  And that's certainly true of Coney Island.
[12:45.990 --> 12:47.670]  So, I can't think of a better place.
[12:47.810 --> 12:48.390]  I really can't.
[12:48.670 --> 12:50.150]  It's, it's going to be, uh, pretty amazing.
[12:50.290 --> 12:52.810]  So, that's, uh, October 7th and 8th of, of this year.
[12:52.910 --> 12:56.370]  We'll have, certainly have more details about that as, um, as it gets closer.
[12:57.350 --> 12:58.950]  That is incredibly exciting.
[13:00.510 --> 13:04.870]  Yeah, a lot of people are, uh, talking about, um, what, what could happen there.
[13:04.870 --> 13:24.490]  And, and, and, given how much success in the past, uh, with the world event and, um, others of these, these smaller maker fairs, it, it is, uh, it's going to be, uh, different, but I hope as, uh, as fun and, and, uh, just lively as, as, uh, the world maker fair was known to be.
[13:24.670 --> 13:27.830]  So, I can't wait for Coney Island maker fair.
[13:27.990 --> 13:28.990]  That's, that's it.
[13:29.890 --> 13:30.510]  All right.
[13:30.690 --> 13:34.470]  Um, now, uh, getting into the world of hacking or quote unquote hacking.
[13:34.470 --> 13:35.610]  This is from the New York Times.
[13:35.870 --> 13:49.350]  A faked declaration of martial law and military mobilization by President Vladimir Putin of Russia aired on Monday on a number of Russian radio and television networks, an incident that the Kremlin described as a hack.
[13:50.110 --> 13:53.890]  It's great how everybody blames hackers, no matter where you are.
[13:54.150 --> 13:56.390]  Yes, the Kremlin described it as a hack.
[13:56.390 --> 14:04.050]  The bogus speech, which was broadcast on the Mir radio station, didn't know there was a Mir radio station and television networks.
[14:04.170 --> 14:04.290]  Yeah.
[14:04.370 --> 14:07.850]  It's not just the space station, which, uh, crashed to earth many years ago.
[14:08.170 --> 14:14.090]  Um, they said Ukraine had invaded three border regions and urged their residents to evacuate to the Russian heartland.
[14:14.770 --> 14:20.930]  Uh, it's kind of funny to think that that would happen, that Ukraine would invade Russia and everybody would have to flee.
[14:20.930 --> 14:21.310]  Wow.
[14:22.110 --> 14:29.850]  Um, the clip also depicted Mr. Putin declaring a general mobilization, saying all the power of the country needed to be harnessed to defeat a dangerous and insidious enemy.
[14:30.610 --> 14:32.390]  He's probably already said that a few times.
[14:32.550 --> 14:46.130]  Uh, the press service of Mir, which is a Russian public broadcaster, said in a statement released to the state news agency TASS that its radio and television channels had been illegally interrupted for a little more than a half hour before being restored.
[14:46.130 --> 14:53.410]  Can you imagine a half hour of a TV network and a radio network being hacked and just completely taken over?
[14:55.150 --> 14:57.610]  That is, that is, uh, really remarkable.
[14:57.830 --> 15:09.230]  I mean, in the field of broadcast signal intrusion, which is what this, the term for this sort of thing, um, you really haven't seen much happen in the way of broadcast signal intrusions of note for a long time.
[15:09.230 --> 15:12.150]  It used to be easier in the analog era of this country.
[15:12.150 --> 15:18.610]  There was the famous Max Headroom incident, um, but, uh, no, this to, to get on the air at all.
[15:18.830 --> 15:25.410]  And then to stay on the air for half an hour, like I, I have to take my hat off to whoever managed that managed to pull that off.
[15:26.030 --> 15:30.190]  Or, uh, give a very disapproving look to the people in charge who don't know what they're doing.
[15:31.590 --> 15:31.950]  Yeah.
[15:32.030 --> 15:32.210]  Or both.
[15:32.350 --> 15:32.630]  Both.
[15:32.790 --> 15:32.850]  Yeah.
[15:32.950 --> 15:33.970]  Probably a bit of both.
[15:34.250 --> 15:49.190]  Uh, but, um, the broadcast appeared to piece together genuine recordings of Putin's voice to create a realistic spoof and it coincided with a surge in Ukrainian attacks along the front line that may signal the start of Kyiv's long awaited counteroffensive,
[15:49.350 --> 15:55.090]  which has been been previewed more than the fall television season, which by the way, it's going to be late this year.
[15:55.830 --> 15:57.810]  Um, so yeah, that, that, that happened.
[15:57.970 --> 16:15.190]  Uh, and then you have Twitter where all kinds of fake information, um, is given out on a regular basis now, um, dozens, this is actually a week or so ago, dozens of verified accounts on Twitter with very large followings spread misinformation about an explosion near the Pentagon,
[16:15.550 --> 16:19.430]  tweeting the news alongside what appears to be an AI generated image.
[16:19.570 --> 16:22.670]  AI is doing nothing but getting people into trouble.
[16:22.850 --> 16:32.830]  You know, it's, uh, it's the kind of thing that, um, we all predicted, uh, accounts such as, uh, war monitors, Bloomberg feed, and RT.
[16:33.910 --> 16:35.730]  They, they don't use the Twitter RT.
[16:35.890 --> 16:50.310]  It's just RT, the, the Russian, uh, Russia today, the television network apparently fell for this as well, uh, posted an image of a large gray smoke cloud appearing next to a white government building with a corresponding caption that stated there was an explosion near the Pentagon.
[16:50.990 --> 17:01.050]  Uh, Bellingcat journalist, Nick Waters tweeted that there are a few signs that make it an AI image, including that the fence melds into the crowd barriers on the image.
[17:01.210 --> 17:04.170]  And there are no other images or videos being posted on social media.
[17:04.310 --> 17:06.150]  Those are, those are the clues that you look for.
[17:06.310 --> 17:12.990]  Uh, now the image was quickly retreated by, by many different accounts, some crediting Twitter sources as the original source.
[17:13.390 --> 17:20.350]  Now, while some of the accounts that tweeted it out either apologized or deleted the image, Bloomberg feed was suspended.
[17:20.350 --> 17:24.290]  It continued to be shared by accounts, uh, that had blue checks.
[17:24.290 --> 17:30.730]  Thanks to Twitter's pay to play verification system, the stock market even briefly dipped due to the fake news.
[17:30.850 --> 17:39.390]  This is what happens when you get rid of the, um, uh, verification account, which unfair though it was, it did offer a degree of verification.
[17:39.650 --> 17:57.050]  Uh, whereas now it just verifies that you're willing to pay Elon Musk to get a ridiculous blue check, you know, and, and, and the people who don't have blue checks actually have, uh, more, um, more respect, I think, than, uh, than those who, uh, who yield and,
[17:57.050 --> 17:59.030]  and pay whatever it is he's, he's demanding.
[17:59.310 --> 18:08.750]  Uh, anyway, within an hour of, um, of this, uh, fake report being circulated, government officials stepped in to clarify that the tweets were fake news.
[18:09.050 --> 18:17.490]  There was no explosion or incident taking place at or near the Pentagon reservation, said the Arlington Fire and EMS department.
[18:17.490 --> 18:20.690]  And there was no immediate danger or hazards to the public.
[18:21.350 --> 18:33.090]  The, uh, spreading of this fake news across accounts that have up to a million followers and blue checks raises more alarm bells on how Twitter's current structure as a result of Elon Musk's ownership can expedite a misinformation campaign.
[18:33.930 --> 18:42.370]  Again, we predicted this, you know, when, when you do this kind of thing, uh, people are going to misbehave and, um, you give them verification.
[18:42.370 --> 18:44.530]  They're going to use that to their advantage.
[18:45.110 --> 18:51.990]  The thing is, it's happening over and over and over and over and that it isn't being addressed or doesn't, no one cares there.
[18:52.150 --> 18:56.170]  It just seems to be more of a feature than a bug at this point.
[18:57.110 --> 19:02.910]  I mean, when, when do you start saying, okay, wait, this is, this is the business model here, y'all.
[19:03.750 --> 19:06.570]  I mean, what the heck, what the hell else is it?
[19:09.050 --> 19:09.450]  Absolutely.
[19:10.190 --> 19:13.590]  Um, yeah, that's, uh, that's where, that's where Twitter is right now.
[19:13.810 --> 19:18.570]  And, uh, it's, it's sad, you know, it was a nice spot for a very long time.
[19:19.190 --> 19:21.050]  And, uh, here we are.
[19:21.410 --> 19:21.690]  Mm-hmm.
[19:22.010 --> 19:26.950]  Sometimes I reminisce about people that used to post there, like, yeah.
[19:27.650 --> 19:28.190]  All right.
[19:28.270 --> 19:30.750]  Well, let's, let's look at some good news, which is not fake.
[19:30.930 --> 19:31.370]  It's real.
[19:31.890 --> 19:33.930]  Um, United States versus Smith.
[19:34.690 --> 19:38.750]  Uh, that case, a district court judge in New York has made history.
[19:39.450 --> 19:48.230]  By being the first court to rule that a warrant is required for a cell phone search at the border, absent, exit, exit, uh, circumstances.
[19:48.650 --> 19:53.190]  Uh, although other district courts have, um, have wanted to do so, I guess.
[19:53.690 --> 19:55.750]  Um, now this is from the EFF.
[19:55.970 --> 20:03.170]  They are thrilled about the decision, obviously, given they've been advocating for a warrant for border searches of electronic devices in the courts and Congress for nearly a decade.
[20:03.170 --> 20:10.770]  Um, if the case is appealed to the second circuit, they are urging the appellate court to affirm this landmark decision.
[20:11.110 --> 20:12.170]  Now, uh, U.S.
[20:12.310 --> 20:25.070]  Customs and Border, uh, uh, protection, a search broad authority to conduct warrantless, often suspicionless device searches at the border, which includes ports of entry at the land borders, international airports, and seaports.
[20:25.070 --> 20:38.850]  Now, for a century, the Supreme Court has recognized a border search exception to the Fourth Amendment's warrant requirement, allowing not only warrantless, but also often suspicionless searches of luggage and other items crossing the border.
[20:39.050 --> 20:41.330]  Did not know for a century they allowed that.
[20:41.590 --> 20:48.910]  Um, the number of warrantless device searches at the border and the significant invasion of privacy they represent is only increasing.
[20:48.910 --> 20:57.630]  In 2022, uh, CPB, um, CBP has conducted an all-time high of 45,499 device searches.
[20:57.850 --> 21:10.110]  The Supreme Court has not yet considered the application of the border search exception to smartphones, laptops, and other electronic devices that contain the equivalent of millions of pages of information detailing the most intimate details of our lives,
[21:10.450 --> 21:12.990]  even though EFF asked them to back in 2021.
[21:13.310 --> 21:14.230]  Not very responsive.
[21:14.230 --> 21:21.410]  But this is, um, it's, it's, it's, um, it bodes well, I think, if, uh, if this is the kind of thing that we can look forward to.
[21:22.350 --> 21:31.770]  Yeah, I think that, um, unfairly, it's been used as, uh, um, uh, something that is a matter of routine anymore.
[21:32.450 --> 21:39.330]  You know, it is, um, it's not just something that's done in a circumstance like where a warrant is used.
[21:39.770 --> 21:47.690]  And, um, it's, uh, now just so, um, uh, uh, common and, in, uh, easy.
[21:47.850 --> 21:51.850]  It wasn't something that required extra, uh, equipment and so forth.
[21:51.890 --> 22:08.850]  Like, they seem well prepared and the technology's advanced enough where this isn't, this isn't some heavy lift and, uh, people do need a little bit more protection than, uh, just having, uh, some, some, uh, person with this kind of equipment's suspicion and,
[22:08.850 --> 22:11.310]  and, and authority in that, in that venue.
[22:11.470 --> 22:16.130]  Think of all the information as on your cell phone or on your laptop or on your, your tablet.
[22:16.570 --> 22:24.590]  Uh, and, and to have somebody just rifle through that, um, it's, it's, it's very different than just being searched.
[22:24.670 --> 22:29.450]  I've been searched many times, but I've never had electronic devices searched.
[22:29.450 --> 22:37.250]  And that to me would just seem to be so much, so, uh, all encompassing and, uh, and, and completely disturbing.
[22:38.030 --> 22:39.310]  Um, I don't know.
[22:39.410 --> 22:40.410]  Any thoughts, Rob Gila?
[22:41.590 --> 22:41.990]  Yeah.
[22:42.130 --> 22:49.830]  I mean, I could see being searched at the border when you, when you land, when you, uh, get off a boat, whatever, they don't want you to have certain physical items.
[22:49.970 --> 22:51.310]  They don't want you to have something dangerous.
[22:51.510 --> 22:52.870]  They don't want you to have something explosive.
[22:53.150 --> 22:53.950]  I get that.
[22:54.570 --> 22:58.750]  What are they looking for in the data on your phone that warrants the same caution?
[22:59.370 --> 23:11.630]  Um, what, what series of ones and zeros, what string of words, what bunch of numbers could they possibly find that make it worth, um, your, your, uh, your right to, uh, some measure of personal privacy?
[23:12.310 --> 23:13.710]  They're looking for thought crime.
[23:13.890 --> 23:15.270]  They're looking for ideas.
[23:15.430 --> 23:17.450]  They're looking for signs that you might be trouble.
[23:17.990 --> 23:34.810]  And if they're able to, even for a moment, have, um, uh, unsupervised access to your devices, they can, they can copy so much information and just peruse it at their leisure or, or simply, um, uh, abuse your privacy in one way or another, share it with people who aren't authorized.
[23:35.450 --> 23:36.490]  It's, it's a nightmare.
[23:36.770 --> 23:42.350]  It's something that, um, uh, I, I'm sure was never the intention, uh, when, when these laws were written.
[23:42.630 --> 23:46.030]  And, um, we definitely need to have this, this, this confrontation.
[23:48.270 --> 23:52.450]  And so much, yeah, the reliance is, is, uh, increased.
[23:52.770 --> 24:09.030]  It's just exponentially that people are securing so much of their lives with, uh, this kind of equipment, especially since there's a big push for two-factor authentication and, and, uh, uh, uh, using, uh, password managers and so forth and, and all this other stuff.
[24:09.090 --> 24:29.230]  I mean, it's, uh, it's just, um, creating, uh, another vulnerable, huge, uh, vulnerability for people in, in, um, a moment when, you know, they're, they're doing something they're totally entitled to and, um, and, and, and it can just be so all-encompassing so quickly that,
[24:29.370 --> 24:47.270]  that, um, you know, how can you be perfect prepared, um, and, uh, you know, live without something that has been so vital, um, uh, if you are subject to such sort of frivolous, um, uh, search on, on a whim.
[24:48.170 --> 24:48.730]  Mm-hmm.
[24:49.550 --> 24:50.010]  Yeah.
[24:50.130 --> 24:57.390]  I mean, your, your phone, your phone basically is for, for most people in the smartphone era, your phone is your communicative life.
[24:57.610 --> 25:10.310]  Like if at the border someone asked you, okay, we want to see everything that's been in your physical mailbox over the past year and every phone, you know, transcripts of every phone conversation you've had and also things you've just said to people standing around you,
[25:10.630 --> 25:11.750]  you'd think they were nuts.
[25:11.750 --> 25:15.830]  But the digital equivalent of that is all wrapped up in someone's cell phone.
[25:16.630 --> 25:17.110]  Right.
[25:17.410 --> 25:27.110]  So our advice to people who travel, uh, encrypt whenever possible, uh, don't put everything in your life onto your cell phone, uh, and just be aware.
[25:27.370 --> 25:32.330]  If something happens like this, let people know and, um, uh, raise a, raise a big stink about it.
[25:32.630 --> 25:32.930]  Yes, Kila.
[25:33.550 --> 25:38.670]  And also make sure that you disable the biological unlockers.
[25:38.970 --> 25:39.330]  Yes.
[25:39.630 --> 25:39.930]  Yes.
[25:40.470 --> 25:48.270]  Because all they have to do is say, hold this up to your face or put your thumb on it and, and, and you've given them unfettered access and that's, that's not what you want to do.
[25:48.390 --> 25:49.170]  That's a great point.
[25:49.530 --> 25:50.330]  The biometrics.
[25:50.630 --> 25:50.670]  Yeah.
[25:51.330 --> 25:51.690]  Yeah.
[25:51.790 --> 25:59.750]  They still can't compel you to reveal your password, but, um, they can always take your finger and wrestle it onto a pad or take your face and point it, point it at your phone.
[26:00.970 --> 26:07.210]  I always like to make my password this horrible insult directed at them because then they can say, Oh, you've insulted us.
[26:07.290 --> 26:08.250]  And no, I gave you the password.
[26:08.350 --> 26:09.050]  That was the password.
[26:10.230 --> 26:12.590]  But, um, yeah, that's, that's my own personal trick.
[26:13.150 --> 26:14.870]  Um, I don't know if you heard about this.
[26:15.070 --> 26:17.450]  Um, Gmail has this brilliant new system.
[26:17.790 --> 26:19.310]  Uh, they have now blue check marks.
[26:19.530 --> 26:21.750]  Uh, it's called sender verification.
[26:22.830 --> 26:23.270]  Yeah.
[26:23.550 --> 26:31.910]  Uh, it was introduced last month and it, uh, highlights, um, verified companies and organizations, um, to users with a, with a blue check mark.
[26:32.030 --> 26:39.050]  The idea is to help users discern which emails are legitimate and which may have been sent by impersonators running scams.
[26:39.690 --> 26:46.870]  You know, the first thing that got me, uh, about that system, uh, was, uh, wait a minute, do you have to be a Gmail user to get a blue check?
[26:47.230 --> 26:52.110]  Uh, if that's the case, well, that certainly is, uh, a slap in the face to anybody not using Gmail.
[26:52.390 --> 26:55.810]  You're basically calling them all illegitimate or implying that they are.
[26:56.170 --> 27:00.290]  Anyway, don't worry because scammers have tricked the system already.
[27:00.910 --> 27:02.610]  It didn't take very, very long.
[27:03.190 --> 27:17.390]  Um, this was, uh, spotted by cybersecurity engineer, Chris Plummer, uh, who says that scammers have found a way to convince Gmail that their fake brands are legitimate, thereby using the confidence the check mark system is supposed to instill against Gmail users.
[27:18.050 --> 27:25.210]  Uh, Plummer says the sender found a way to dupe Gmail's authoritative stamp of approval, which, uh, end users are going to trust.
[27:25.470 --> 27:35.330]  Um, this message went from a Facebook account to a UK net block to 0365, a phone company, I believe to, to me, nothing about this is legit.
[27:35.850 --> 27:41.290]  Uh, Plummer reports that Google initially dismissed his discovery as intended behavior, right?
[27:41.630 --> 27:45.530]  Uh, before his tweets about it went viral and the company acknowledged the error.
[27:45.710 --> 27:46.870]  That's, that's what it takes.
[27:47.010 --> 27:54.930]  Uh, in a statement, uh, Google wrote, after taking a closer look, we realize that this indeed doesn't seem like a generic SPF vulnerability.
[27:55.670 --> 27:59.970]  Thus, we are reopening this and the appropriate team is taking a closer look at what is going on.
[28:00.210 --> 28:04.850]  We apologize again for the confusion and we understand our initial response might have been frustrating.
[28:05.230 --> 28:09.150]  Thank you so much for pressing on, uh, pressing on for us to take a closer look at this.
[28:09.270 --> 28:12.830]  We'll keep you posted with our assessment and the direction that this issue takes.
[28:13.330 --> 28:30.250]  Um, the flaw is now listed as top priority, which is currently in progress, but, um, yeah, hats off to, uh, to Plummer for finding that, uh, because, um, not only do you have to find these things, but you have to get the, uh, the, the people in charge to recognize it and acknowledge it.
[28:30.810 --> 28:36.330]  Uh, and, uh, this, this sort of thing is something that, um, you have to, you have to expose when it happens.
[28:36.450 --> 28:39.810]  If people are going to believe this, they're going to believe this blue check means anything.
[28:39.970 --> 28:41.210]  I don't know what it is about blue checks.
[28:41.450 --> 28:49.850]  Why would you want to, why would you want to have a blue check like Twitter when that system is, is being ridiculed by everybody and now Google's doing the same thing?
[28:52.390 --> 28:54.290]  Yeah, it's, uh, it's a, it's a laugh.
[28:54.610 --> 28:55.870]  That's why we're statusable.
[28:56.250 --> 29:21.870]  Um, and I'm also just entertained by all of this because of, I don't know if this has been a proliferation generally in the world, but I know that in faith communities of my particular faith, there has been this weird moment where people are creating Gmail accounts in the name of clergy and then trying to scam people out of,
[29:22.090 --> 29:24.050]  it's a gift card scam, basically.
[29:24.370 --> 29:33.670]  But people are like, Hey, I'm, you know, Rabbi Smith at Temple Beth Columbus at gmail.com.
[29:34.130 --> 29:37.670]  Hey, I need you to call me right now because we're having an emergency.
[29:38.170 --> 29:46.270]  And you know, if you can create a Google scam account, if you create a Gmail scam account, then I don't know.
[29:46.350 --> 29:56.870]  I just, I always want to encourage people, especially if you're opening mail on a desktop client to just hover over that sender name real quick to see if you can pop up the email address.
[29:57.050 --> 30:00.090]  Cause that's, you know, nine times out of 10, that's an easy way to spot a scammer.
[30:01.370 --> 30:01.810]  Yeah.
[30:01.930 --> 30:02.810]  And slow down.
[30:03.030 --> 30:03.150]  Yeah.
[30:03.550 --> 30:05.210]  Slow, slow your clicking.
[30:05.710 --> 30:11.590]  But I do, I think this verification stuff is like, it's getting a little ridiculous.
[30:11.970 --> 30:13.970]  It was, it was always, I don't know.
[30:14.150 --> 30:19.170]  I just think a formal, uh, a formalized version of, of clout.
[30:19.370 --> 30:25.410]  And I think you should let your, you know, let your content speak for itself.
[30:25.810 --> 30:31.630]  And, uh, you know, it don't, don't try to, um, differentiate so much.
[30:31.710 --> 30:44.170]  I guess it's more important for, for official brands and, and maybe celebrities, but I, I, I don't think it's, it's a necessary part of the, the core function of social networking.
[30:44.170 --> 30:53.610]  If you're using it, um, to truly communicate widely and network a little bit and, um, yeah, let it happen on its own.
[30:53.750 --> 30:58.790]  You don't have to pay for followers and pay for badges and all this fake stuff.
[30:59.750 --> 31:02.670]  But, um, also it, uh, it's worth, uh, thinking about that.
[31:02.850 --> 31:07.730]  If Google is doing this just for Gmail users, this is a special feature of Gmail only.
[31:07.930 --> 31:10.790]  You don't get it if you use other email services or email servers.
[31:11.710 --> 31:13.330]  Um, email is a standard.
[31:13.510 --> 31:17.530]  It's supposed to work the same no matter where you use it from, no matter where you use it to.
[31:17.770 --> 31:20.430]  It's a decentralized system in that, uh, in that sense.
[31:20.650 --> 31:31.690]  And if Google is, uh, now adding, you know, they have such a domination over the email market, um, just as it is, um, for many people, Gmail is email.
[31:32.290 --> 31:40.970]  And, uh, if, if now Gmail has email, but with some extra sauce on it, then, uh, this is, this is drawing more people to their service.
[31:41.170 --> 31:48.970]  And it's, uh, I think it's a, it can be a step toward trying to make it a closed system or more of a closed system than, than an open interoperable thing.
[31:49.710 --> 31:57.250]  Um, the, the, we've all been emailing each other for generations and we know things like, uh, you know, email, uh, to a specific domain.
[31:57.270 --> 32:01.290]  If you email us at 2600.com, you know, that's, that's our known domain.
[32:01.630 --> 32:11.030]  And, you know, you're emailing OTH at 2600.com with your thoughts on off the hook or other things at 2600.com for, you know, other things you might contact the folks they're about.
[32:11.310 --> 32:22.510]  And, um, we, we need to, we need to spread further education of the systems that are already there to kind of verify what's going on in an email message that have been refined over the decades.
[32:22.690 --> 32:37.390]  I mean, the other thing it almost makes me think of is I was thinking about, you know, being a young teenager and having AOL, having my first AOL account and knowing that if you were an AOL user, you were emailing another AOL user, you didn't need to include at AOL.com.
[32:37.530 --> 32:38.610]  You can just use the username.
[32:39.110 --> 32:45.190]  And then if you were emailing anybody else, it was like, you know, you had to include the domain name.
[32:45.230 --> 32:51.610]  And now that I'm thinking about it in retrospect, it's almost like the difference between seven digit dialing and 10 digit dialing.
[32:51.750 --> 32:58.070]  Or even four digit dialing, because in the old days, if you were in the same exchange, you only have to dial the last four digits.
[32:58.810 --> 32:59.250]  Exactly.
[32:59.570 --> 33:09.290]  And as we've, you know, gotten accustomed to cities where, with overlay area codes or what have you, where even to call somebody 10 feet away, you have to 10-digit dial.
[33:09.690 --> 33:14.350]  So what that expansion has been, and we've all adjusted to it, and it's been okay.
[33:15.010 --> 33:18.350]  And I'm trying to think about how we can extrapolate that also.
[33:18.830 --> 33:20.430]  Well, it wasn't okay for me.
[33:20.430 --> 33:21.710]  I have not adjusted to it.
[33:21.790 --> 33:22.270]  I resent it.
[33:22.570 --> 33:24.930]  Every time I have to dial my own damn area code, I resent it.
[33:25.150 --> 33:25.570]  I do.
[33:25.570 --> 33:25.570]  Yeah.
[33:26.950 --> 33:27.790]  That's fair enough, too.
[33:28.610 --> 33:43.490]  It is that sort of rough transition, or at least I think that trustability or verifiability is sort of dynamic.
[33:44.110 --> 33:53.590]  And you've seen it in people exploiting accounts or taking over accounts that were dormant for nefarious or other, you know, silly purposes.
[33:53.590 --> 34:18.170]  So it is seemingly more of a move towards really not trusting a lot of any of these sources and some of the providers that have a lot of say over platforms like Gmail, which interoperate, as was pointed out, with the email protocol and so forth.
[34:18.170 --> 34:28.250]  It can damage outwardly if they start putting their thumb on the scales or sort of doing things that make you jump through all kinds of authentication hoops.
[34:28.250 --> 34:47.390]  Or they make some decision to not trust one feature of the protocol and then switch it up again or issue, you know, whitelists or blacklists of different domains and stuff on the fly.
[34:47.390 --> 34:49.150]  As I said, dynamically.
[34:49.530 --> 35:02.090]  And you have to imagine it is happening that way because of a lot of the way security is being handled and having, you know, to shut down different networks in emergencies.
[35:02.090 --> 35:18.370]  And so a lot of that changing and so forth, I think is lending itself, the environment itself is lending to them making these big decisions, but they're not thinking about that interoperability, which was sort of the foundation.
[35:18.990 --> 35:26.330]  Yeah, you know, one thing that people talk about a lot when it comes to Gmail is spam filtering.
[35:26.810 --> 35:31.250]  And people say Google has a really good or Gmail has really good spam filtering.
[35:31.410 --> 35:33.330]  I think they have really bad spam filtering.
[35:33.430 --> 35:35.530]  The reason I say that is because it's overly aggressive.
[35:35.970 --> 35:40.290]  Yeah, it'll catch the spam, but it also catches personal correspondence.
[35:40.750 --> 35:47.810]  You know, I don't use Gmail for anything important, but I do use it as, you know, ways of contacting people.
[35:47.810 --> 35:54.330]  People that I don't want to give out my real email address to or that I just want to be able to communicate in a particularly different way.
[35:54.410 --> 35:55.610]  Or maybe I want to use a different name.
[35:55.630 --> 35:56.450]  I can do that, too.
[35:57.310 --> 36:02.970]  And what I've noticed is that if I look in my spam box, I find many, many things there that really shouldn't be there.
[36:03.050 --> 36:06.370]  For instance, I gave this email address to a credit card company.
[36:06.690 --> 36:14.910]  In that spam folder were notices of potential fraud from my credit card company, which I have corresponded with before on that very same Gmail account.
[36:14.910 --> 36:17.350]  Somehow Gmail decided, no, this is spam.
[36:17.350 --> 36:18.350]  You shouldn't see this.
[36:18.570 --> 36:20.250]  And I almost didn't see it.
[36:20.410 --> 36:25.630]  And there have also been personal correspondences that I should have seen of people that I communicate with.
[36:25.770 --> 36:33.390]  So I don't know how they program this, but it's not doing a very good job because it's catching way too much.
[36:33.510 --> 36:37.690]  I'd much rather get a little bit of extra spam than lose legitimate communications.
[36:37.870 --> 36:40.450]  And apparently at Gmail, that's not a consideration.
[36:43.950 --> 36:45.010]  No, that's true.
[36:45.870 --> 36:49.150]  No, that's totally like real life.
[36:49.330 --> 36:50.830]  I mean, I think a lot of people go through that.
[36:51.350 --> 36:51.690]  So, yeah.
[36:52.170 --> 37:02.170]  And things that you would imagine it would filter that it would recognize as promotional or spam-like, those should get triggered.
[37:02.470 --> 37:10.070]  You know, like say some retailer or something that you used because you didn't want to use your other email addresses.
[37:10.070 --> 37:11.830]  And you knew it was going to send you spam.
[37:11.970 --> 37:12.990]  People do that all the time.
[37:13.390 --> 37:17.890]  Why doesn't that get filtered and put into some kind of like distinct folder?
[37:18.090 --> 37:18.850]  I mean, I'm sure you can.
[37:18.850 --> 37:19.610]  You can set keywords.
[37:19.730 --> 37:19.950]  I know.
[37:20.010 --> 37:20.230]  I know.
[37:20.290 --> 37:20.550]  I know.
[37:21.130 --> 37:22.090]  I know there are ways.
[37:22.170 --> 37:25.510]  We are going to get so many Google defenders emailing us.
[37:25.650 --> 37:26.450]  It always happens.
[37:26.490 --> 37:28.230]  We are marching right now.
[37:29.770 --> 37:30.590]  After we get the pick.
[37:30.590 --> 37:35.450]  Anyway, so the long and the short, I don't know.
[37:35.550 --> 37:37.110]  It is curious.
[37:37.110 --> 37:42.710]  I think that variability and they don't have a good sense.
[37:42.810 --> 37:48.490]  And it is wrong more often than people really should attribute to it.
[37:48.790 --> 37:49.630]  Well, we have more.
[37:50.250 --> 37:50.770]  Oh, go ahead.
[37:51.310 --> 37:54.990]  I was going to say there was a period of time where I was missing emails from you.
[37:56.970 --> 38:00.330]  Because Gmail just decided that I didn't need to hear from you anymore.
[38:00.330 --> 38:03.730]  So everything you sent was landing in my spam folder.
[38:03.990 --> 38:04.170]  Yeah.
[38:04.470 --> 38:05.750]  It was just a weird moment.
[38:05.910 --> 38:10.630]  They had it out for 2600 for a little while because almost everything we were sending out was winding up in spam.
[38:11.050 --> 38:12.670]  And how do you fight that?
[38:12.930 --> 38:22.630]  How does a small company like ours fight something big like Gmail if they decide that you're either not relevant or you're negative and must be filtered out?
[38:22.970 --> 38:24.530]  It's something to really think about.
[38:24.990 --> 38:26.410]  You know, the more power we give them.
[38:26.830 --> 38:31.650]  But there's also just the pure logic of like, in our situation, we all email each other a lot.
[38:31.770 --> 38:33.650]  We work on this program together and other stuff together.
[38:34.710 --> 38:41.030]  And Gmail deciding that somebody you've been communicating with for years upon years, all of a sudden, oh, that's fake.
[38:41.150 --> 38:41.530]  That's spam.
[38:42.410 --> 38:42.850]  Yeah.
[38:43.050 --> 38:48.170]  I think many times the Gmail I get is fake and spam, but, you know, I still keep getting it.
[38:48.310 --> 38:54.910]  And it makes you wonder because so many small businesses, so many people individually, they rely on it.
[38:55.050 --> 39:03.150]  And when it comes up, when these policies or platform updates or whatever they call it have an impact like this, it's inconsistent.
[39:03.210 --> 39:04.830]  People can't rely on it.
[39:04.930 --> 39:06.670]  And they really, really, really are.
[39:06.670 --> 39:21.350]  And exactly like was pointed out with Gil's email, throwing their weight around with policies and then pointing to small businesses and medium enterprises that don't have as...
[39:21.350 --> 39:31.430]  They are not as resourced to go digging around and reconfiguring and changing it to bow to their whims as a massive organization.
[39:31.430 --> 39:50.330]  They should be wildly portable and responsive to interacting with the protocol and not like telling everybody else they have to change on a dime, you know, given, you know, whatever way they feel like the wind is blowing every other day.
[39:50.450 --> 39:51.130]  So, I mean, I just...
[39:51.130 --> 39:57.290]  There's got to be a lot more support for people outside of that platform, in my opinion.
[39:57.510 --> 39:57.790]  So, yeah.
[39:57.970 --> 39:58.150]  Anyway.
[39:58.150 --> 40:00.930]  A little more Google shaming, then we have to move on.
[40:01.350 --> 40:18.730]  This has to do with revelations that Google contributed $45,000 to the Republican State Leadership Committee after a leaked Supreme Court decision indicating that the Supreme Court was going to end the right to nationwide abortion access.
[40:18.970 --> 40:23.930]  After that was leaked, they contributed $45,000 to the RSLC.
[40:24.950 --> 40:29.350]  That's according to the Center for Political Accountability, CPA.
[40:30.130 --> 40:34.970]  Not only that, Amazon contributed $50,000 into it, $100,000.
[40:35.110 --> 40:36.610]  Comcast, $147,000.
[40:37.290 --> 40:42.790]  Google, Amazon, Comcast, Wells Fargo, Bank of America, all of them, they did not respond to requests for comment.
[40:44.310 --> 40:51.210]  Yeah, but that's where some donations are going from these companies, which is kind of surprising.
[40:51.210 --> 40:52.370]  It's kind of surprising.
[40:53.010 --> 41:01.670]  Blue chip companies gave to Republican groups, funneling money to lawmakers who overturned abortion ban vetoes in North Carolina.
[41:01.870 --> 41:09.010]  And the headline of this story, which ran in The Guardian, Amazon and Google fund anti-abortion lawmakers through complex shell game.
[41:09.690 --> 41:13.070]  So complex, we don't have time to get into it in the remaining moments.
[41:13.190 --> 41:14.410]  But do look up that story.
[41:14.410 --> 41:20.890]  It's fascinating and indicative of how motives are not as pure as you might think they are.
[41:23.930 --> 41:24.390]  Absolutely.
[41:24.730 --> 41:39.550]  And the companies that are willing to put themselves out there and who have painted their logos rainbow colors for Pride this month and things like that, it's always very interesting when you start looking into what their money actually does when they get into the political game like this.
[41:40.430 --> 41:45.970]  I'm really interested in the corporations and entities that choose not to.
[41:46.470 --> 41:56.750]  I think that's as important as whatever, you know, even if they are even, they give to, they contribute to both as the campaign season rolls through.
[41:56.910 --> 42:08.510]  I mean, there really is, I think, I think a lot of damage that it does to the media industry just with how much money is spent and how over-reliant sometimes they seem.
[42:08.510 --> 42:12.190]  I really think there should be a cap, but that's, that's political, like, opinion.
[42:12.350 --> 42:12.690]  I don't know.
[42:13.210 --> 42:26.370]  It just, I think, for as much attention as the media gets, they really are not doing themselves any favor by, like, just getting gobs and gobs of money from these campaign cycles and stuff.
[42:26.530 --> 42:32.570]  It just, it's, especially with the damage we were talking about with, like, fake stuff.
[42:32.570 --> 42:56.730]  And then, okay, so, like, if, if we just let the, the, the highest bidder rule and we don't have any kind of, like, journalistic integrity, I know that might be a quaint term, but I really feel like you're going to get every bit of chaotic society that you,
[42:56.750 --> 42:57.670]  that you imagine.
[42:57.670 --> 43:04.190]  Because people will come in, they'll, they don't care about the messaging that, and, and we've got plenty of examples.
[43:04.310 --> 43:14.230]  I don't want to point, you know, name names and, and, and, uh, uh, deconstruct it here, but that's why a community radio, that's, that's why it has a different model.
[43:14.890 --> 43:15.470]  And, um...
[43:15.470 --> 43:16.150]  Name that name.
[43:17.650 --> 43:18.090]  WBAI.
[43:18.170 --> 43:18.490]  That's right.
[43:18.650 --> 43:18.890]  Yeah.
[43:19.230 --> 43:29.670]  And, uh, please support this place because, uh, you know, you may not agree with everything you hear, but what you hear is, um, um, are honest opinions.
[43:29.930 --> 43:48.070]  You know, we're not both siding everything, which is, um, so disgusting to hear that in the mainstream, where basically every opposing opinion has to be treated as if it's somehow as legitimate when much of it is based on lies or, or, uh, evidence that can easily be,
[43:48.210 --> 44:00.770]  and it has been easily disproven, um, and, um, it doesn't do any favors for, for, uh, people who, um, depend on these outlets for, for getting information, finding out what the facts are.
[44:00.990 --> 44:16.830]  If you, if you just simply go, uh, uh, uh, give everybody, whether they're, um, qualified or not the same attention, you know, it's like, it's like, uh, you know, a chat board on, uh, on a newspaper story where somebody has poured their heart into researching and,
[44:16.930 --> 44:21.930]  uh, and, and, and, and investigating and interviewing and following up and writes the story.
[44:22.210 --> 44:24.850]  And then the first comment is, oh, I think it's all stupid.
[44:24.850 --> 44:31.830]  And that person gets the equal, equal amount of attention because they're given equal amount of attention on the page.
[44:31.930 --> 44:33.110]  It's, it's, it's just wrong.
[44:33.370 --> 44:36.970]  It's just wrong to, uh, uh, to handle things that way, in my opinion.
[44:38.290 --> 44:38.770]  Yeah.
[44:38.890 --> 44:46.810]  And the sort of blurred nature of entertainment and news and all of that is, it's changed a lot because there's now entertainment in politics.
[44:47.510 --> 44:58.910]  So it's like this really weird, um, uh, uh, mixing of, of, uh, things of, of models and, and, and, and formats and so forth.
[44:59.110 --> 45:00.070]  So I don't know.
[45:00.130 --> 45:10.410]  I just, it, it, it is really, really critical, I think, to get it right and to just inform people and not just, and not be so ad oriented.
[45:10.410 --> 45:11.270]  And I don't know.
[45:11.330 --> 45:17.170]  I just feel like we could do so much more with it, even on commercial, um, uh, broadcast mediums.
[45:17.630 --> 45:36.410]  And, um, if it was a little bit more sane, maybe then when, when, um, sort of, uh, a more controlled political cycle came through, um, people would be interested in actual debates and concern, you know, uh, uh, less, uh, entertainment politics or less entertainment news.
[45:36.410 --> 45:36.810]  Yeah.
[45:36.970 --> 45:45.050]  And, you know, there is more news than just, uh, what, what we are seeing every day on the news cycles, literally one, two stories and that's it.
[45:45.170 --> 45:46.710]  There was so much going on in the world.
[45:46.870 --> 45:50.930]  And, uh, we, we, we basically need to pay more attention to that.
[45:51.050 --> 45:53.970]  And our, our, uh, news networks are failing us dramatically.
[45:54.670 --> 45:55.470]  Uh, okay.
[45:55.570 --> 45:59.550]  I don't know how we got off into that, but, uh, we're, we're in the middle of shaming Amazon at this point.
[45:59.690 --> 46:12.290]  Uh, and, uh, just a little bit more of that, uh, every single, and this, this is not a surprise to any of us, every single Amazon ring employee was able to access every single customer video, even when it wasn't necessary for their jobs.
[46:12.450 --> 46:22.770]  Not only that, but the employees, along with workers from a third party contractor in Ukraine could also download any of those videos and then save and share them as they liked.
[46:23.090 --> 46:28.030]  And this is all before July of 2017, but it's, it's kind of what we were fearing back then.
[46:28.290 --> 46:36.490]  Uh, the FTC basically are the accusers here, uh, and, um, they're, um, uh, basically, um, confronting Amazon on this.
[46:36.590 --> 46:39.050]  Amazon is facing a settlement of $5.8 million.
[46:39.870 --> 46:45.230]  And, uh, of course, as you might guess, some employees abused that access, right?
[46:45.390 --> 46:52.530]  One example, the FTC says a ring employee viewed thousands of videos from at least 81 different female users.
[46:52.530 --> 47:02.290]  The employee allegedly went looking for camera feeds that suggested they may have been used in the most private of areas, such as master bedroom, master bathroom, and spy camp.
[47:02.290 --> 47:07.330]  Look, I have to ask who in their right mind puts a camera in their bathroom, you know?
[47:07.590 --> 47:10.290]  I mean, yeah, it's wrong to be spied upon.
[47:10.510 --> 47:11.630]  And I get that.
[47:11.730 --> 47:18.550]  And, and, and, uh, that is a complete injustice, but why are you putting a camera in your bathroom in the first place?
[47:18.650 --> 47:30.610]  What's, what's going on in there that you want that you have to assume that everything on your camera is going to be seen by somebody else, unless you have a completely closed system, which Amazon ring is not.
[47:31.970 --> 47:32.690]  Kayla, go ahead.
[47:32.950 --> 47:35.070]  I'm just speculating on a bathroom camera.
[47:35.370 --> 47:35.530]  Okay.
[47:35.630 --> 47:36.370]  So here's an idea.
[47:37.250 --> 47:42.950]  You have a cat and the cat's not using the litter box.
[47:43.150 --> 47:49.170]  So you want a camera in your bathroom to see if the cat is using the toilet while you're not at home.
[47:49.410 --> 47:54.190]  That's like the only reason I can think of that you would need to put a ring camera in your bathroom.
[47:54.190 --> 47:57.170]  That's a really specific reason, but, uh, yeah.
[47:57.310 --> 47:57.570]  Okay.
[47:57.890 --> 48:07.970]  If, and if nobody else used that bathroom, maybe that's acceptable, but if humans go in there at any point in time, no, I, I, I just can't, I can't accept that.
[48:09.150 --> 48:10.750]  I'm not saying it's a good idea.
[48:10.750 --> 48:14.330]  I'm just saying, you know, it's the world and idea.
[48:15.010 --> 48:29.070]  It better, and it had better be only that scenario because the world does not need more audio and video from, from, uh, uh, uh, private chambers, uh, where, where people are doing business.
[48:29.130 --> 48:30.510]  But is anybody surprised by this?
[48:30.650 --> 48:31.590]  That ring had access.
[48:31.750 --> 48:32.670]  They abused the access.
[48:32.850 --> 48:33.770]  They shared the access.
[48:34.010 --> 48:36.750]  Well, that's why you set boundaries when you do camera placement.
[48:36.750 --> 48:39.710]  If you're installing or setting up home security, right?
[48:39.710 --> 48:42.270]  I mean, you, you gotta have boundaries, you gotta have private spaces.
[48:42.270 --> 48:48.630]  You can still monitor, uh, uh, access and, and various, uh, uh, areas of concern, but.
[48:48.630 --> 48:49.570]  Yeah, but here's the thing.
[48:49.690 --> 48:49.810]  Okay.
[48:50.090 --> 48:54.710]  Configuration aside, uh, what this story says is every single customer video.
[48:54.870 --> 49:02.010]  So I imagine even if, um, uh, they set rules that this is not viewable outside my house, uh, it didn't matter.
[49:02.150 --> 49:03.410]  They were still able to access it.
[49:03.630 --> 49:21.150]  Well, that's, I think the nature of a lot of the, um, newer systems, a lot of the wireless systems, uh, easy setup stuff that, I mean, stuff that is harder if you're, uh, running it, um, running your own video system, you have a lot more control, but even those a lot more have,
[49:21.330 --> 49:24.750]  um, sort of backups or cloud interface using internet connections.
[49:24.890 --> 49:33.810]  So you are, um, uh, trusting whatever storage system they're, um, exfiltrating all your nasty audio and video from the bathroom too.
[49:34.310 --> 49:34.930]  Go ahead, Rob.
[49:35.610 --> 49:36.070]  Yeah.
[49:36.070 --> 49:36.070]  Yeah.
[49:36.250 --> 49:44.330]  I mean, if you're going to make that decision as a consumer to outsource watching your house, then, uh, this sort of thing is going to happen.
[49:44.510 --> 49:59.930]  I'm fascinated by the quote from the FTC complaint, uh, only after the supervisor noticed that the male employee was only viewing videos of quote, pretty girls, did the supervisor escalate the report of misconduct only at that point did ring review a portion of the employee's activity and ultimately terminate,
[49:59.930 --> 50:00.950]  terminate his employment.
[50:02.130 --> 50:02.770]  Wow.
[50:03.270 --> 50:11.470]  Uh, between January, 2019 and March, 2020, the FTC alleges more than 55,000 customers had their ring devices compromised.
[50:11.830 --> 50:20.130]  In some instances, cyber criminals use the two-way communication to terrorize ring customers like something from a horror movie.
[50:20.250 --> 50:24.670]  It's, uh, it's funny, but it's also really creepy and scary.
[50:24.850 --> 50:25.670]  Here are some examples.
[50:25.790 --> 50:30.690]  Several women lying in bed heard... okay, I, I, I really object to, to the way the story is written.
[50:30.790 --> 50:37.130]  This is from malwarebytes.com, but they, they say, um, uh, several women lying in bed heard hackers curse at them.
[50:37.850 --> 50:40.370]  Now, malwarebytes, do you know who these people were?
[50:40.430 --> 50:42.330]  How do you know they were hackers and not just idiots?
[50:42.690 --> 50:43.590]  It sounds like they were idiots.
[50:44.310 --> 50:47.210]  Uh, several children had racist slurs thrown at them.
[50:47.430 --> 50:48.890]  At least hackers weren't blamed for that.
[50:49.070 --> 50:55.110]  An elderly woman in an assisted living facility was sexually propositioned and physically threatened.
[50:55.410 --> 51:02.450]  A digital intruder told a woman through her camera that they had killed her mother and then said, tonight you die.
[51:03.350 --> 51:08.250]  A woman was told her location was being tracked and that her device would self-destruct at the end of a countdown.
[51:09.010 --> 51:11.630]  She disconnected the device before the countdown ended.
[51:12.470 --> 51:12.910]  Wow.
[51:13.270 --> 51:13.810]  Uh, you know what?
[51:13.890 --> 51:14.750]  And throw it away too.
[51:14.970 --> 51:15.630]  Throw it away.
[51:15.970 --> 51:27.210]  Uh, aside from the fine, uh, ring has been ordered to delete any customer videos and data collected from an individual's face known as face embeddings that ring obtained before 2018.
[51:27.850 --> 51:30.710]  Uh, that's, that's crazy.
[51:30.830 --> 51:36.830]  Cause it's biometrics that they're using presumably once, but it ended up getting exfiltrated.
[51:36.830 --> 51:44.530]  And now that nice, uh, well formatted, uh, information can be applied to other situations.
[51:44.890 --> 51:49.570]  I mean, ah, that's the, the feature that becomes a huge vulnerability.
[51:50.310 --> 51:51.310]  Yeah, absolutely.
[51:52.090 --> 52:02.090]  Hey, uh, we're just about out of time, but I just wanted to say, because we, we haven't mentioned it yet, how nice it's been today to have this sort of reunion of everybody walking around wearing masks again.
[52:02.290 --> 52:10.490]  It just brings back, it just brings back memories of the period from 2020 to 2022, where, where that was prevalent.
[52:10.810 --> 52:12.930]  Uh, of course the reasoning is a little bit different.
[52:12.930 --> 52:23.450]  Now, uh, we are in the middle of a situation where smoke is, um, is, is coming from, uh, uh, the, the border, uh, the border crossing is out of control apparently.
[52:23.690 --> 52:26.510]  And now smoke is pouring over the Canadian border into the United States.
[52:26.670 --> 52:29.030]  And Joe Biden has not done a thing about it.
[52:29.090 --> 52:39.650]  I'm outraged, but yes, people please, uh, stay inside, uh, wear a mask if you go outside because it really is, uh, you know, kind of accurate out there.
[52:39.890 --> 52:40.570]  I don't know.
[52:40.790 --> 52:42.730]  What do you guys, any experiences with the smoke?
[52:44.370 --> 52:45.310]  Oh, oh yeah.
[52:45.690 --> 52:49.270]  Um, uh, first I want to suggest people go to air now.gov.
[52:49.450 --> 52:51.790]  That's A-I-R-N-O-W dot G-O-V.
[52:52.050 --> 52:56.630]  Just check how things are in your area and, uh, it'll let you know if it's okay to go outside.
[52:57.110 --> 53:02.250]  But, uh, yeah, we, we've had the, uh, windows to the apartment, uh, closed tight all day.
[53:02.370 --> 53:05.890]  But when we go over by the, um, when we go over by the windows, it smells like burning.
[53:06.690 --> 53:07.510]  It does.
[53:07.770 --> 53:08.690]  And that's because it is.
[53:09.350 --> 53:11.650]  Not here, but somewhere it's burning.
[53:11.910 --> 53:13.390]  Stay hydrated, everyone.
[53:13.990 --> 53:14.470]  Good night.
[53:14.470 --> 53:24.210]  They asked me how I knew my true love was true.
[53:24.770 --> 53:26.170]  Oh,
[53:29.850 --> 53:40.910]  I must reply something here inside cannot be denied.
[53:47.950 --> 53:58.590]  They said someday you'll find all who love are blind.
[53:59.670 --> 54:00.150]  Oh,
[54:03.810 --> 54:11.070]  when your heart's on fire, you must play a lie.
[54:12.050 --> 54:15.090]  Smoke gets in your eyes.
[54:15.170 --> 54:15.170]  Smoke gets in your eyes.
[54:16.870 --> 54:25.570]  And, uh, for those of you who want to continue the conversation, we will be, uh, convening on YouTube channel 2600 in just a couple of minutes at eight o'clock.
[54:25.910 --> 54:30.670]  Join us there where you can call and you can also be part of our chat.
[54:31.530 --> 54:34.090]  Write to us, OTH at 2600.com.
[54:34.230 --> 54:38.370]  We'll see you again next week at 7 PM on WBAI.
[54:38.490 --> 54:41.190]  And of course, stay tuned to WBAI New York.
[54:41.350 --> 54:41.770]  Good night.
[54:41.770 --> 54:45.350]  My love has blown away.
[54:45.970 --> 54:49.810]  I am without no
[54:57.740 --> 55:01.480]  laughing friends deride.
[55:02.220 --> 55:06.120]  Tears I cannot hide.
[55:06.120 --> 55:07.120]  мотрive.
[55:07.760 --> 55:10.760]  Oh, you're a 아니에요.
[55:10.760 --> 55:13.600]  It's so I style and say.
[55:14.800 --> 55:22.980]  When the way flame dies, smoke gets in your eyes.
[55:25.060 --> 55:28.940]  Smoke gets in your eyes.
[55:29.880 --> 55:30.820]  Smoke gets in your eyes.
[55:30.820 --> 55:34.760]  Smoke gets in your eyes.
[55:45.350 --> 55:46.010]  Smoke gets in your...
[55:46.010 --> 55:47.470]  Hey, this is Smokey Robbins.
[55:47.590 --> 55:52.230]  And you're listening to WBAI 99.5 FM, New York.
[55:52.650 --> 55:55.530]  Let the music take your mind.
[55:57.670 --> 56:00.990]  Just release and you will find.
[56:02.730 --> 56:05.650]  You're gonna fly away.
[56:05.910 --> 56:08.250]  I'm glad you're going my way.
[56:09.110 --> 56:13.130]  I love it when we're cruising together.
[00:00.000 --> 00:07.800]  And welcome, everybody, to YouTube as we start another edition of Off the Hook Overtime.
[00:08.340 --> 00:09.520]  Kyle, did you make it okay?
[00:09.960 --> 00:11.600]  I am here, and I am okay.
[00:11.860 --> 00:12.340]  All right, good.
[00:12.580 --> 00:14.100]  Rob Gila, are you making it in Skype land?
[00:15.380 --> 00:16.860]  We have made it, yes.
[00:17.120 --> 00:19.620]  And can you verify that we are, in fact, on YouTube?
[00:19.980 --> 00:28.940]  We can verify that we're on YouTube, not least because I forgot to mute the computer until right now, so you may have just heard us come through the microphone.
[00:29.700 --> 00:31.660]  So, sorry about that, guys.
[00:32.600 --> 00:36.720]  Hello to everyone out there in the YouTube chat.
[00:36.720 --> 00:39.240]  We are keeping an eye on all of you.
[00:41.880 --> 00:56.860]  And just so folks know, I am not watching the chat because otherwise I would get distracted and hear long periods of silence while I'm looking at what somebody just said.
[00:58.580 --> 01:00.520]  Yeah, and no, I'm not going to do that.
[01:00.640 --> 01:01.620]  I will not play that game.
[01:01.760 --> 01:02.120]  Won't do it.
[01:02.180 --> 01:02.360]  Uh-uh.
[01:03.260 --> 01:05.560]  I might look later, but I'm not looking now.
[01:06.460 --> 01:07.820]  But we do have a moderator.
[01:07.980 --> 01:11.080]  I don't know if the moderator wants to identify themselves or if we want to keep it secret.
[01:11.760 --> 01:13.320]  I'm happy to identify myself.
[01:13.540 --> 01:15.260]  I am moderating away.
[01:15.260 --> 01:19.940]  So, folks in the chat, yes, yes, we are here.
[01:20.400 --> 01:27.260]  If anybody's got a question to share with us and...
[01:28.900 --> 01:30.780]  Dude, you're not supposed to rat me out like that.
[01:31.540 --> 01:40.600]  But if anybody's got a question for the panel, and especially if the phone lines are busy, do feel free to pop it in the chat.
[01:41.920 --> 01:51.840]  But ideally, we'll be able to maintain a conversation between the folks on the panel and the folks in the chat and potentially anybody on the phone.
[01:52.260 --> 01:54.980]  So, this is the plan.
[01:55.400 --> 01:55.940]  All right.
[01:56.020 --> 01:59.420]  So, let's figure out how this can be used advantageously.
[01:59.620 --> 02:06.900]  So, we have a phone number, 802-321-4225, 802-321-HACK, that people can call in and be on the air.
[02:07.440 --> 02:09.900]  We also have this chat mechanism.
[02:10.140 --> 02:11.460]  I believe the phone's already ringing.
[02:13.060 --> 02:19.620]  And is there a particular desired way people should use the chat mechanism in conjunction with the telephone?
[02:19.620 --> 02:24.000]  Or maybe if you're shy, you want to ask a question in the chat and not call us?
[02:24.060 --> 02:30.960]  Or maybe because Rebel's taking all the time on the phone, we have to get questions a different way.
[02:31.060 --> 02:31.720]  I don't know.
[02:32.860 --> 02:34.640]  Any suggestions are welcome, I suppose.
[02:35.800 --> 02:38.780]  Yeah, this is still a pretty new technology for...
[02:38.780 --> 02:40.020]  Well, not a new technology, but this is a new...
[02:40.020 --> 02:40.960]  For us, it is, yeah.
[02:41.460 --> 02:41.900]  Yes.
[02:42.100 --> 02:44.040]  It's a new mechanism for us.
[02:44.220 --> 02:44.840]  We're excited.
[02:46.780 --> 02:51.980]  Just as a reminder, yes, indeed, phone line, singular, Tim.
[02:52.160 --> 02:59.780]  That is why we are trying to ensure that we have more opportunities for people to chat just because of the...
[02:59.780 --> 03:01.480]  Out of the...
[03:01.480 --> 03:02.420]  We all know, dude.
[03:02.560 --> 03:02.960]  We all know.
[03:03.240 --> 03:04.800]  Just because of the nature of the...
[03:04.800 --> 03:05.400]  You see, that makes no sense.
[03:05.580 --> 03:07.860]  You're replying to somebody that we can't see.
[03:08.500 --> 03:09.180]  Sorry about that.
[03:09.400 --> 03:13.120]  Maybe I'm the only one that doesn't know what you're referring to, because I'm not looking at the chat.
[03:13.480 --> 03:15.200]  And, no, Kyle, you're not looking at the chat either, right?
[03:16.340 --> 03:17.380]  I'm enjoying this.
[03:17.500 --> 03:17.660]  Uh-huh.
[03:17.700 --> 03:20.420]  I'm just sitting back and taking it all in.
[03:20.420 --> 03:23.120]  But I'm sure if you said...
[03:23.120 --> 03:28.720]  Well, if it was super important, Gila could say, like, what they just said and interrupt herself.
[03:28.860 --> 03:28.960]  Right.
[03:29.000 --> 03:29.920]  But that would be...
[03:29.920 --> 03:32.460]  That's not how she rolls.
[03:32.640 --> 03:36.460]  So she's actually attracting people to the chat because they want to know.
[03:36.540 --> 03:37.500]  That's why they're going to go there.
[03:37.760 --> 03:38.920]  That's what a moderator does.
[03:39.060 --> 03:43.200]  If people listen to the audio archive later, it wouldn't make sense to you either because you don't see...
[03:43.200 --> 03:47.600]  Unless you watch it on YouTube, we have it set up so that it'll play back the chat in real time.
[03:48.020 --> 03:50.020]  But who knows how long YouTube's going to be around for.
[03:50.020 --> 03:53.060]  Number one, you can watch the live chat back on the replay.
[03:53.280 --> 04:01.700]  But number two, there is a certain guessing game that I'm reasonably willing to bet that all of us play and all of our listeners play.
[04:01.840 --> 04:04.220]  And now in the chat, we're just getting to watch it happen.
[04:04.360 --> 04:05.860]  And that's what we're talking about.
[04:07.280 --> 04:08.640]  So do we have a caller?
[04:08.880 --> 04:09.360]  What do I do now?
[04:09.440 --> 04:10.820]  Oh, I take the phone call.
[04:10.900 --> 04:12.100]  And we'll just...
[04:12.580 --> 04:15.500]  If you know, you know what that's about.
[04:15.660 --> 04:19.220]  But we do have a caller and it might not be who you think.
[04:19.220 --> 04:22.200]  I just know that I don't really know myself.
[04:22.500 --> 04:23.760]  But let's see who's on the phone.
[04:23.880 --> 04:24.180]  Good evening.
[04:24.340 --> 04:25.240]  You're on Off the Hook Overtime.
[04:27.560 --> 04:28.180]  Go ahead.
[04:30.380 --> 04:31.340]  Well, you're right, Kyle.
[04:31.480 --> 04:32.620]  I have no idea who this is.
[04:33.840 --> 04:35.000]  They're very quiet, though.
[04:35.000 --> 04:35.600]  I'll say that.
[04:35.760 --> 04:36.560]  Is anybody there?
[04:39.140 --> 04:40.360]  The person not speaking.
[04:40.520 --> 04:41.260]  That's who I'm talking to.
[04:44.180 --> 04:44.580]  No?
[04:44.830 --> 04:44.960]  No?
[04:45.600 --> 04:47.240]  Maybe you have to ask them, Kyle.
[04:47.500 --> 04:49.530]  Should we clean the cobwebs out of the phone line?
[04:49.590 --> 04:50.380]  Is that what we have to do?
[04:50.560 --> 04:50.920]  All right.
[04:50.980 --> 04:51.830]  I'll drop...
[04:52.180 --> 04:53.090]  We're going to drop...
[04:53.090 --> 04:53.530]  What we're doing.
[04:53.880 --> 04:54.530]  ...in five seconds.
[04:55.680 --> 04:57.580]  Do we want to try to see if...
[04:57.580 --> 04:58.090]  Oh, they're gone.
[04:58.500 --> 04:59.760]  Yeah, that works.
[05:01.100 --> 05:02.180]  So when you call...
[05:02.180 --> 05:02.880]  We have a phone line.
[05:02.980 --> 05:03.320]  Yeah, okay.
[05:03.460 --> 05:04.520]  Maybe we didn't make that clear.
[05:05.000 --> 05:06.400]  You have to actually say something.
[05:06.530 --> 05:07.460]  You can't just call the number.
[05:07.760 --> 05:08.180]  All right.
[05:08.180 --> 05:11.500]  The phone can be the main channel or a back channel.
[05:11.520 --> 05:11.980]  That's on us.
[05:12.150 --> 05:14.270]  And the chat can be a main channel or a back channel.
[05:14.270 --> 05:15.360]  Yeah, we weren't clear about that.
[05:15.640 --> 05:17.380]  Yeah, it's a conversation.
[05:17.520 --> 05:17.820]  That's what it's supposed to be.
[05:17.820 --> 05:18.960]  The phone's more...
[05:19.700 --> 05:21.330]  It's well-suited for voice.
[05:21.380 --> 05:24.380]  And chat is better for no voice.
[05:25.140 --> 05:26.150]  You know what it might have been?
[05:26.210 --> 05:28.740]  The person might have called and then started looking at the chat window.
[05:28.880 --> 05:29.620]  Oh, that's what happens.
[05:29.620 --> 05:32.420]  And then they got all distracted by that and forgot that they called.
[05:32.820 --> 05:34.540]  Or just put us on hold.
[05:34.740 --> 05:35.080]  You know?
[05:35.200 --> 05:36.300]  And that's what happens.
[05:36.400 --> 05:37.340]  People put us on hold.
[05:37.780 --> 05:38.600]  We have another call?
[05:38.720 --> 05:39.440]  All right, let's take this one.
[05:39.500 --> 05:39.780]  Good evening.
[05:39.940 --> 05:40.760]  You're on off the cover time.
[05:42.300 --> 05:44.640]  Hi, I'm Daniel calling from St. Petersburg, Russia.
[05:45.000 --> 05:46.580]  See, it appears that I was right, Kyle.
[05:46.600 --> 05:47.300]  It was Rebel.
[05:47.480 --> 05:49.060]  You thought it was going to be him.
[05:49.180 --> 05:51.060]  He always winds up being first, no matter what.
[05:51.260 --> 05:57.620]  There was a caller before him, but somehow, somehow Rebel from Russia was able to silence him.
[05:57.780 --> 05:58.140]  Wow.
[05:58.400 --> 05:59.400]  Are you really in Russia?
[06:00.880 --> 06:04.260]  Yes, and you know, it's like totally light here.
[06:04.260 --> 06:08.440]  It's 3 o'clock in the morning, and it's light, like if it was like 8 o'clock in the morning.
[06:09.200 --> 06:09.600]  Wow.
[06:09.900 --> 06:15.640]  Okay, well, that proves you're in Russia then, because no one else would have figured that out.
[06:16.300 --> 06:18.960]  So tell us, how did you get there?
[06:20.460 --> 06:24.100]  Well, all right, I got here the same way I got here last year.
[06:24.220 --> 06:26.600]  I went, you know, to Turkey and came into Russia.
[06:26.600 --> 06:38.260]  But this time when I came, the immigration, the customs, they, you know how they sometimes do like extra screening, like, you know, they screen you, you know.
[06:39.220 --> 06:39.760]  I'm familiar.
[06:39.940 --> 06:40.760]  They ask you questions.
[06:41.560 --> 06:50.120]  And, you know, so they normally ask me questions like, you know, how will you be here, and how will you stay, and where are you going, and, you know, what city are you going to do with that?
[06:50.120 --> 06:56.540]  And they asked you, they took down the serial number of my cell phone, and I wonder why that was.
[06:56.940 --> 07:00.800]  Took down the serial number of your, wow, how did they, how did they access that?
[07:02.520 --> 07:09.540]  I gave them my phone, and, you know, they, I guess they asked for it, or, I don't know.
[07:09.780 --> 07:10.020]  Mm-hmm.
[07:10.360 --> 07:14.980]  Well, I mean, is it something that's written on your phone, or did they do something through the phone?
[07:15.140 --> 07:20.020]  Oh, no, they do something, they just, you know, no, they just, you can get the serial number.
[07:25.310 --> 07:31.180]  Yeah, it's probably... old phones, you would get like a printed label inside, like under the battery.
[07:31.500 --> 07:41.040]  But now, since a lot of them aren't removable, it would be like that in a setting screen about like system or about this phone, you know, hardware, all the details about what versions of software.
[07:41.180 --> 07:42.960]  Basically, Rebel, you had to unlock your phone for them.
[07:43.060 --> 07:46.040]  You had to enter your... I assume you have a password on your phone, right?
[07:47.040 --> 07:48.080]  No, I don't actually.
[07:48.300 --> 07:49.960]  You don't have a password on your phone.
[07:50.120 --> 07:51.460]  We found the last one.
[07:51.580 --> 07:51.780]  Wow.
[07:52.620 --> 07:53.020]  Okay.
[07:53.840 --> 07:54.800]  He's very open.
[07:54.920 --> 07:55.580]  He's very trusting.
[07:55.580 --> 07:56.240]  I'll say that.
[07:56.360 --> 07:58.420]  That's what happens when you come from Queens, man.
[07:58.500 --> 07:59.680]  Everyone's just so trusting there.
[07:59.820 --> 08:00.720]  The kind of person you are, yeah.
[08:01.320 --> 08:05.080]  First, he loses his bike, and now he walks around Russia with an unlocked phone.
[08:05.240 --> 08:08.140]  And unlocked, not in the good way, but just no password.
[08:08.900 --> 08:09.520]  That's something.
[08:09.600 --> 08:11.940]  Okay, so now they are tracking you.
[08:12.120 --> 08:14.040]  Yeah, have there been any perks that come with this?
[08:15.560 --> 08:17.320]  No, I mean, I haven't.
[08:19.060 --> 08:27.360]  I actually get scolded once by, you know, by actually, I guess a transit police person in the metro.
[08:27.580 --> 08:30.560]  They asked me for my passport, and I didn't have it.
[08:30.640 --> 08:31.700]  I had it in the hotel.
[08:31.860 --> 08:33.200]  It was a hotel they could walk away from.
[08:33.200 --> 08:37.790]  And they took me and said, you know, you know, took around my name, and not that I could get it.
[08:37.930 --> 08:40.500]  And they said, well, yeah, I should have your passport on you.
[08:41.220 --> 08:45.310]  There are some countries where that is the law, where you have to carry your passport with you.
[08:45.430 --> 08:48.520]  But also, I think in Russia, they take your passport at the hotel.
[08:48.660 --> 08:51.720]  So that could leave you in a very uncomfortable quandary.
[08:53.230 --> 08:54.480]  Well, they don't take my passport.
[08:54.670 --> 09:00.900]  They have this little piece of paper, I guess it's called, I don't know if it's called, it's called Press Peace Guy in Russian.
[09:01.140 --> 09:03.900]  I guess it's an immigration card or something like that.
[09:04.000 --> 09:05.900]  And the hotel took a copy of that.
[09:06.080 --> 09:06.360]  Okay.
[09:06.580 --> 09:10.420]  And, of course, they gave me my passport, you know, and that back.
[09:10.580 --> 09:15.600]  So I now carry those two things with me when I'm here.
[09:15.840 --> 09:16.280]  Hang on, Rebel.
[09:16.580 --> 09:17.600]  Gila has something to add.
[09:17.780 --> 09:18.020]  Go ahead.
[09:18.020 --> 09:28.100]  Yes, we do have a question from the chat, which we're going to relate to Rebel, which is, why would any reasonable person choose to go to Russia right now?
[09:28.980 --> 09:30.220]  This is Rebel we're talking to.
[09:30.220 --> 09:31.260]  I went last year.
[09:32.340 --> 09:34.160]  Wait, Rebel, that's not an answer.
[09:34.430 --> 09:36.430]  That just doubles the question.
[09:36.960 --> 09:38.280]  Why would you go twice?
[09:40.380 --> 09:51.810]  Well, I went to Russia to Moscow last year, and I enjoyed it, and I'm in St. Petersburg, and it's, you know, it's enjoyable, but I don't know if I like Moscow better than St. Petersburg.
[09:52.220 --> 09:56.430]  I think Moscow is, I don't know, maybe because I had such a good time in Moscow last year, I don't know.
[09:56.550 --> 09:59.960]  Well, I mean, St. Petersburg is certainly a more attractive city than Moscow.
[10:00.220 --> 10:01.660]  You see that, right?
[10:03.790 --> 10:05.050]  Well, I don't know.
[10:05.360 --> 10:06.310]  I mean, I guess there's...
[10:06.310 --> 10:08.780]  The buildings, the history, oh my God, look around.
[10:09.670 --> 10:11.640]  Well, yeah, that's true, you know.
[10:12.840 --> 10:14.720]  Go to the Peter the Great Museum.
[10:14.960 --> 10:20.660]  Peter the Great Museum, he collected fetuses, and they're preserved.
[10:20.980 --> 10:21.880]  I'm not kidding.
[10:22.040 --> 10:23.120]  That's really what he did.
[10:23.760 --> 10:25.310]  And they named the city after him.
[10:27.660 --> 10:28.080]  Oh, okay.
[10:29.050 --> 10:33.600]  Well, there are... Well, I guess Moscow's more modern, because they had the modern buildings.
[10:33.600 --> 10:34.700]  Oh, yes, definitely more modern.
[10:35.050 --> 10:35.460]  Absolutely.
[10:36.040 --> 10:38.050]  How did you get to St. Petersburg from Turkey?
[10:40.160 --> 10:42.790]  I flew on to the challenge from there.
[10:42.790 --> 10:52.700]  I was going to go to Uzbekistan, but I didn't want to go on the plane for like 12 hours, and, you know...
[10:54.200 --> 11:01.260]  And Uzbekistan didn't look that great, and you needed to be there in advance to go to Uzbekistan, and all that.
[11:01.940 --> 11:04.220]  Would have been interesting for us, though.
[11:04.220 --> 11:05.380]  You didn't think about that, did you?
[11:05.840 --> 11:06.060]  Yeah.
[11:06.580 --> 11:09.840]  I would have liked to maybe go to Uzbekistan.
[11:10.640 --> 11:11.700]  It would have been interesting.
[11:11.800 --> 11:12.580]  Maybe next time.
[11:12.880 --> 11:13.280]  Oh, yeah.
[11:13.900 --> 11:18.800]  Well, I'm looking out the window now, and it's very... You know, the sun rose at like, I think, I guess, 2.30.
[11:18.800 --> 11:19.440]  Yeah, I feel sorry.
[11:19.740 --> 11:23.260]  I haven't had the people up like 1,000 miles north of here in Siberia.
[11:23.680 --> 11:27.360]  I mean, they're probably like 1 o'clock in the morning.
[11:27.760 --> 11:29.100]  Yeah, they're having a non-stop party.
[11:29.200 --> 11:30.300]  Believe me, the sun is out.
[11:31.120 --> 11:34.160]  Now, Rebel, are you feeling the effects of the smoke from Canada?
[11:36.280 --> 11:37.100]  Not here.
[11:37.500 --> 11:37.780]  Wow.
[11:37.780 --> 11:41.560]  I'm feeling the effects of the... I'm feeling the effects of the White Knights.
[11:42.540 --> 11:44.240]  Well, they have those in Canada, too.
[11:44.420 --> 11:45.520]  But you hear that, folks?
[11:45.660 --> 11:47.420]  The smoke does not reach Russia.
[11:48.220 --> 11:48.980]  Only here.
[11:49.400 --> 11:49.800]  Wow.
[11:51.620 --> 11:52.020]  Okay.
[11:52.180 --> 11:53.080]  Well, I learned something today.
[11:55.840 --> 11:56.240]  Yeah.
[11:56.360 --> 11:59.400]  So, the White Knights, the 11 o'clock, it starts getting dark.
[12:00.660 --> 12:03.780]  You know, it doesn't get dark until like maybe 11.30.
[12:04.360 --> 12:07.420]  And then like it's like 2 a.m.
[12:07.560 --> 12:09.600]  or 2.30 a.m., it's light again.
[12:11.520 --> 12:12.000]  Yeah.
[12:12.080 --> 12:13.740]  In some places, it doesn't even get dark.
[12:17.510 --> 12:17.990]  Right.
[12:17.990 --> 12:19.730]  That would be interesting to experience.
[12:20.130 --> 12:22.110]  I think Rob has a question for you.
[12:22.170 --> 12:22.510]  Go ahead, Rob.
[12:23.090 --> 12:23.570]  I do.
[12:23.690 --> 12:31.830]  Rebel, so when they took your phone from you to take the serial number and stuff, was your phone in your line of sight the whole time?
[12:31.830 --> 12:35.750]  Or did they take it off to the side where they could have maybe like put something on it?
[12:36.730 --> 12:38.030]  No, I was...
[12:38.030 --> 12:38.990]  Well, I was...
[12:38.990 --> 12:40.050]  They did it in front of me.
[12:42.790 --> 12:43.270]  Okay.
[12:43.550 --> 12:43.790]  All right.
[12:45.030 --> 12:58.430]  So, maybe verifying what might have already registered on the phone network or just writing it down in case something comes up on the phone network or in some place where they're getting everybody's phone number that was in some event or something.
[12:59.210 --> 13:00.850]  Well, the event was the plane landing.
[13:00.850 --> 13:01.470]  I would imagine.
[13:01.690 --> 13:04.990]  Now, did they do that to everybody on the plane as well or just you?
[13:05.950 --> 13:06.410]  No, no.
[13:06.590 --> 13:06.930]  Just...
[13:06.930 --> 13:16.950]  They only kept about maybe five or six other people for extra screening and one person was from the United Kingdom and another one...
[13:16.950 --> 13:17.730]  Another U.S.
[13:18.390 --> 13:19.630]  person from Massachusetts.
[13:20.070 --> 13:23.430]  It almost sounds like they were more suspicious of Westerners.
[13:24.790 --> 13:25.410]  No, maybe.
[13:26.210 --> 13:26.730]  Interesting.
[13:26.730 --> 13:26.810]  Interesting.
[13:29.350 --> 13:31.270]  Anything else you want to share about...
[13:31.270 --> 13:32.870]  First of all, how long are you staying?
[13:34.190 --> 13:37.850]  Well, I got here last Thursday and I'm here until Friday.
[13:38.810 --> 13:39.010]  Okay.
[13:39.150 --> 13:39.830]  Heading straight back?
[13:41.330 --> 13:41.770]  Yep.
[13:42.890 --> 13:43.330]  All right.
[13:43.970 --> 13:46.050]  You must get some strange looks from U.S.
[13:46.170 --> 13:48.190]  customs when you arrive from Russia.
[13:49.750 --> 13:51.210]  You know, last year I didn't.
[13:51.210 --> 13:51.690]  Okay.
[13:53.390 --> 13:56.330]  I mean, I'd like to think you can just travel wherever you want to go.
[13:56.470 --> 13:59.050]  That's, you know, that's our right to be able to do that.
[13:59.190 --> 14:08.410]  But I wouldn't be lying if I said I thought it was quite dangerous to go there in this time.
[14:08.890 --> 14:11.430]  Have you met up with any kind of hostility?
[14:11.670 --> 14:12.970]  Or do people just not know you're American?
[14:13.190 --> 14:15.070]  Or did I just spill the beans by saying that?
[14:15.070 --> 14:26.830]  No, I mean, except for the thing with the transit, I guess, with the version of transit police was telling me I should get my passport on me.
[14:27.170 --> 14:31.610]  But I don't know why they're asking for a passport or in the metro, but...
[14:31.610 --> 14:32.510]  They do that.
[14:32.650 --> 14:34.110]  That's how it works in some countries.
[14:34.310 --> 14:38.010]  So you just have to follow their rules if you don't want to...
[14:38.010 --> 14:43.530]  Yeah, because I was kind of surprised that last year in Moscow I had no problems at all.
[14:45.110 --> 14:47.810]  Are you planning on visiting any...
[14:47.810 --> 14:49.130]  Are you going to be doing any touring?
[14:49.310 --> 14:52.930]  I mean, you don't have to say exactly what you're up to, but do you have any points of interest?
[14:52.930 --> 14:58.110]  Or are you meeting up and getting some good food?
[14:58.130 --> 15:01.750]  Or just seeing some sights with other people there?
[15:01.890 --> 15:03.870]  Or looking forward to anything in particular?
[15:05.230 --> 15:10.950]  Yeah, I mean, the other day I went to a town near...
[15:13.370 --> 15:16.970]  Near, not Finland, but Estonia.
[15:17.290 --> 15:17.750]  Okay.
[15:18.010 --> 15:22.530]  And near Estonia, like 50 miles south of here.
[15:22.810 --> 15:24.050]  Or is that west, I guess?
[15:24.330 --> 15:25.350]  You could, yeah.
[15:25.770 --> 15:31.130]  You could take a train to Helsinki and then there's a ferry that goes to Tallinn, which...
[15:31.730 --> 15:36.810]  Yeah, and I went to the town near the Finland border.
[15:40.250 --> 15:41.310]  Well, that's good.
[15:41.430 --> 15:41.790]  Let's see.
[15:41.890 --> 15:47.410]  It was interesting to see the towns outside the cities, like, you know, outside St. Petersburg.
[15:49.690 --> 15:50.130]  Absolutely.
[15:50.470 --> 16:01.630]  And you see the transition in different, you know, different states of development and, you know, what's going on and industry and all that.
[16:01.730 --> 16:06.330]  It's the best part, I think, of being able to relax on a train and pay attention to stuff.
[16:07.370 --> 16:16.010]  Hey, Rebel, while you're in St. Petersburg, I don't know if it's still there, but when I was there, there's a cafe or a pub called the Idiot Pub.
[16:17.830 --> 16:18.730]  That's the name of it.
[16:18.770 --> 16:20.510]  It's after Dostoevsky's The Idiot.
[16:21.110 --> 16:22.890]  And it's a really cool place.
[16:23.070 --> 16:25.850]  So if that's still there, I recommend going there.
[16:27.090 --> 16:27.530]  Okay.
[16:27.790 --> 16:40.850]  I went to a place called the Punk Brew, and that's on Rubenstein Street, which is one of the main restaurants and bar strips in Petersburg.
[16:41.250 --> 16:43.730]  And really an interesting, like, alternative theater.
[16:43.830 --> 16:54.390]  You know, you see a lot of it, like, what you see on, like, St. Mark's Place, if you'd be on skateboards and, you know, bicycles, bright bicycles on the sidewalk here.
[16:57.110 --> 17:01.590]  All sorts of, like, teenagers hanging out, and just like, you know, just like in the United States.
[17:02.290 --> 17:04.890]  Yeah, that's how it is all around the world.
[17:05.050 --> 17:07.370]  And it's good that you see that.
[17:07.470 --> 17:09.730]  That's the positivity that can come out of a trip like this.
[17:10.890 --> 17:11.330]  Right.
[17:11.550 --> 17:14.430]  And it's too bad there's no 2,600 meeting in St. Petersburg.
[17:14.770 --> 17:18.350]  I think there were, before all the...
[17:18.350 --> 17:22.410]  Craziness started, but we do have them, I believe, in Moscow.
[17:23.290 --> 17:24.370]  I can look this up.
[17:24.490 --> 17:25.770]  I just looked up The Idiot, and that...
[17:25.770 --> 17:26.670]  It does still exist.
[17:26.890 --> 17:31.230]  It's actually a vegetarian restaurant, but it's got a bar attached to it, I think.
[17:33.110 --> 17:33.610]  Oh, yeah.
[17:33.670 --> 17:36.330]  I was drinking, you know, like, the Russian vodka.
[17:36.730 --> 17:38.130]  I, you know...
[17:38.130 --> 17:41.550]  Well, I have half of it left, and I don't know, you know, what to do with it.
[17:41.550 --> 17:42.350]  I don't want to drink anymore.
[17:43.430 --> 17:44.490]  You might have to.
[17:45.830 --> 17:47.470]  I don't think you can take it on the plane.
[17:48.750 --> 17:49.670]  No, I'm not going to...
[17:49.670 --> 17:51.090]  Maybe I'll just leave it here.
[17:51.810 --> 17:53.390]  I don't know who would want...
[17:53.770 --> 17:54.930]  Actually, I just looked it up.
[17:54.990 --> 17:55.570]  We don't have...
[17:55.570 --> 17:57.770]  We don't have a meeting in Moscow or St. Petersburg.
[17:57.930 --> 18:01.390]  We're going to have a meeting in Petrozavodsk.
[18:02.290 --> 18:02.610]  Yeah.
[18:02.770 --> 18:07.910]  So, if you know where that is, that's where the Seoul 2600 meeting takes place in Russia.
[18:08.050 --> 18:10.130]  Hopefully, we get the other cities back.
[18:11.550 --> 18:11.990]  Hmm.
[18:12.390 --> 18:13.090]  I don't know what...
[18:13.090 --> 18:16.110]  Maybe it's in the Moscow area or the St. Petersburg area?
[18:16.490 --> 18:16.890]  Yeah.
[18:16.990 --> 18:17.990]  I mean, that would be the place to have them.
[18:18.470 --> 18:24.150]  But between COVID and this war thing, it's been tough.
[18:25.350 --> 18:25.790]  Yeah.
[18:25.830 --> 18:30.570]  I wish I could go to other cities, like Kazan and Ufa and Grazny.
[18:30.810 --> 18:33.610]  I mean, it would probably be boring because...
[18:33.610 --> 18:35.150]  Hop on the Trans-Siberian Express.
[18:35.370 --> 18:37.170]  You would actually like the Trans-Siberian Express.
[18:37.170 --> 18:38.130]  Just take it to Beijing.
[18:38.610 --> 18:39.170]  I don't...
[18:39.170 --> 18:39.970]  Yeah.
[18:40.190 --> 18:43.450]  I was spending, like, seven days on a train or five days...
[18:43.450 --> 18:51.130]  Well, you know, you can get off at various stops and you can stay a day or two in those places.
[18:51.430 --> 18:52.510]  That's what I did.
[18:53.670 --> 18:54.190]  Hmm.
[18:54.730 --> 18:57.410]  And if you buy the ticket in Russia, I think it's much cheaper.
[18:58.890 --> 18:59.410]  Right.
[18:59.730 --> 19:03.690]  But, of course, you need to have a visa that will cover that amount of time.
[19:05.270 --> 19:05.790]  Right.
[19:05.930 --> 19:06.090]  Yeah.
[19:08.110 --> 19:09.990]  And he has a return flight to Kazan.
[19:10.150 --> 19:10.610]  That's true.
[19:10.810 --> 19:11.690]  That's the next trip.
[19:11.830 --> 19:11.950]  Right.
[19:11.950 --> 19:13.310]  But it's good that you're breaking it up.
[19:13.410 --> 19:14.570]  You're seeing what you want to see.
[19:15.010 --> 19:23.050]  And you can't just have one trip and just have experienced all there is, especially in a country like that.
[19:23.630 --> 19:23.870]  Mm-hmm.
[19:25.470 --> 19:25.850]  Right.
[19:26.190 --> 19:32.250]  And this White Night thing, it's sure, you know, it's like I feel like getting up now.
[19:32.250 --> 19:35.310]  But it's like almost 3.30 in the morning.
[19:35.490 --> 19:40.630]  And, you know, I go to sleep sometimes in the middle of the day and I wake up and go to dinner.
[19:41.010 --> 19:41.410]  Uh-huh.
[19:42.970 --> 19:44.830]  Yeah, time doesn't work the same way over there.
[19:46.030 --> 19:46.390]  Right.
[19:47.570 --> 19:50.850]  Well, any closing thoughts, Rebel, because we don't want to keep you up too much longer.
[19:51.750 --> 19:52.010]  Okay.
[19:52.270 --> 19:52.470]  Yeah.
[19:52.830 --> 20:00.470]  I just noticed that somebody told me that there's a direct number to go to AT&T Operator.
[20:00.470 --> 20:03.870]  It's the, you know, AT&T Operator number.
[20:04.070 --> 20:04.930]  It's in Florida.
[20:05.170 --> 20:06.510]  Shall I give out the phone number?
[20:07.030 --> 20:08.750]  Is it in St. Petersburg, Florida?
[20:09.190 --> 20:10.310]  Because that would be kind of funny.
[20:11.870 --> 20:15.530]  I don't know if it's in St. Petersburg, Florida, or I think it's in Tampa.
[20:15.870 --> 20:22.770]  You should tell people you made a big mistake and you meant to go to Florida and somehow you wound up in St. Petersburg, Russia, and see if anybody believes that.
[20:24.070 --> 20:24.590]  Hang on.
[20:25.010 --> 20:26.170]  Rob has a question for you.
[20:26.250 --> 20:26.670]  Hang on, Rebel.
[20:26.990 --> 20:27.370]  Go ahead, Rob.
[20:27.710 --> 20:28.210]  I do.
[20:28.290 --> 20:30.450]  Rebel, I'm curious if you're into sharing this.
[20:30.470 --> 20:31.530]  What are you...
[20:31.530 --> 20:32.930]  How are you calling us?
[20:33.070 --> 20:35.890]  What have you finagled for a phone to make calls on?
[20:37.070 --> 20:40.950]  Oh, actually, I use Google Voice.
[20:42.130 --> 20:42.690]  Okay.
[20:43.990 --> 20:45.230]  I didn't know that's the word.
[20:46.510 --> 20:47.070]  Yeah.
[20:47.350 --> 20:51.430]  Yeah, I would say it's definitely not a foreign number.
[20:53.430 --> 20:56.170]  No, I use it as the Google Voice number.
[20:56.170 --> 20:58.090]  And this is the way...
[20:58.090 --> 21:04.050]  When you call from other countries, you know, if you have a Google Voice account, you call as if you're calling for the UNNC.
[21:07.410 --> 21:09.510]  How does the number show up on caller ID, Kyle?
[21:10.310 --> 21:11.850]  Well, I don't want to reveal too much.
[21:11.850 --> 21:12.570]  Just the first part.
[21:12.730 --> 21:13.690]  Rebel, what do you want me to say?
[21:13.770 --> 21:15.130]  Like the city or the state?
[21:15.290 --> 21:16.270]  Did it show up as domestic?
[21:17.330 --> 21:19.910]  It should be like a 201 area code.
[21:19.970 --> 21:20.230]  Correct.
[21:20.750 --> 21:21.030]  Okay.
[21:21.810 --> 21:22.210]  It's...
[21:22.210 --> 21:22.630]  Right, you know.
[21:23.110 --> 21:26.330]  Also, it showed up using a phone number you already had.
[21:27.570 --> 21:27.970]  Right.
[21:28.170 --> 21:28.790]  Okay, got it.
[21:30.510 --> 21:34.630]  So, if I was using my regular cell phone, you know, it would cost me 25 cents a minute.
[21:34.830 --> 21:35.110]  Uh-huh.
[21:35.590 --> 21:41.330]  Which, you know, used to be considered cheap compared to some of the rates that we used to have to deal with back in the day.
[21:41.630 --> 21:41.890]  Right.
[21:43.110 --> 21:47.090]  Like $25 for the first minute and like $1 a traditional minute and all that.
[21:47.230 --> 21:47.690]  That's right.
[21:48.090 --> 21:49.010]  Those are the days.
[21:50.770 --> 21:52.510]  So, will you be there next week?
[21:52.710 --> 21:54.350]  No, you're leaving this later this week.
[21:54.350 --> 21:55.790]  No, no, I'm leaving Friday.
[21:56.010 --> 21:58.350]  I'm leaving Friday, so I'll be here until...
[21:58.350 --> 22:02.030]  And Wednesday, I'll call again from, you know, from home.
[22:03.010 --> 22:03.230]  Okay.
[22:04.530 --> 22:06.430]  And I'll be at the 2600 meeting in July.
[22:06.810 --> 22:07.770]  That's right, yes.
[22:08.710 --> 22:13.230]  Well, hopefully you'll have the traveling bug out of your system by then and won't go to any more dangerous places.
[22:13.470 --> 22:19.050]  Not that Russia is necessarily dangerous, and St. Petersburg certainly is one of the better places you could be, I think.
[22:19.050 --> 22:21.410]  Good on you for getting out and exploring, though.
[22:21.610 --> 22:21.730]  Yeah.
[22:23.190 --> 22:28.390]  And thanks for reporting and telling us, letting us join you for this little bit of it.
[22:29.990 --> 22:30.290]  Right.
[22:31.710 --> 22:34.050]  Now, I don't want to go to sleep, but it's like...
[22:34.050 --> 22:37.490]  Well, when you were here, was it like this when you were here, or you weren't in St. Petersburg?
[22:38.170 --> 22:46.230]  Well, I mean, they had the same latitude, so if I was there in the summertime, then it would have been light much later.
[22:47.010 --> 22:48.910]  And I think I was at one point.
[22:49.190 --> 22:51.090]  I'm pretty sure I was there in the...
[22:51.610 --> 22:52.450]  It wasn't in the winter.
[22:52.630 --> 22:53.710]  I would have remembered that.
[22:54.170 --> 22:55.370]  So, you just adjust.
[22:55.710 --> 22:59.250]  You know, they have thick curtains on the windows, and you just...
[23:00.090 --> 23:01.310]  You have to acclimate.
[23:03.410 --> 23:03.790]  Hmm.
[23:05.970 --> 23:06.350]  Right.
[23:06.610 --> 23:07.230]  Let's see.
[23:07.410 --> 23:09.830]  Yeah, and it gets dark at 11 o'clock at night here.
[23:10.110 --> 23:10.390]  Mm-hmm.
[23:11.290 --> 23:11.670]  Yeah.
[23:11.870 --> 23:13.190]  And then it gets light again at 2 o'clock.
[23:13.190 --> 23:14.030]  We heard.
[23:15.250 --> 23:17.990]  Well, we're going to move on, and you should get some sleep.
[23:17.990 --> 23:18.270]  All right.
[23:18.410 --> 23:18.770]  All right.
[23:18.910 --> 23:19.350]  Be well.
[23:19.730 --> 23:20.110]  Yeah.
[23:20.110 --> 23:20.730]  Have fun.
[23:20.930 --> 23:21.050]  Okay.
[23:22.250 --> 23:22.710]  See you.
[23:22.930 --> 23:23.170]  Bye.
[23:25.090 --> 23:28.210]  And that was Rebel joining us from St. Petersburg, Russia.
[23:29.870 --> 23:30.850]  If we believe him.
[23:31.030 --> 23:32.050]  I'm pretty sure he was there.
[23:32.470 --> 23:33.790]  It's the kind of thing he would do.
[23:34.610 --> 23:44.650]  So, again, our phone number, 802-321-4225, 802-321-HACK, if anyone else out there wants to join the conversation or share some insight or experiences or things like that.
[23:46.410 --> 23:46.850]  Yep.
[23:46.850 --> 23:59.170]  And you can also relate messages to us, questions, comments, whatever, in the chat on our YouTube channel, YouTube, channel 2600 on YouTube, where this is streaming live.
[24:02.950 --> 24:10.270]  Petrozovotsk, where our one Russian 2600 meeting currently is, is in the northwestern corner of Russia.
[24:10.270 --> 24:14.470]  And it's the capital city of the Republic of Karelia, Russia.
[24:15.850 --> 24:21.710]  And the name of the city is the combination of the words Peter from Peter the Great and Zavod, meaning factory.
[24:23.090 --> 24:24.950]  Well, that sounds like an interesting place.
[24:25.170 --> 24:28.550]  It's the same Peter that St. Petersburg was named after.
[24:29.710 --> 24:30.190]  Yep.
[24:30.330 --> 24:31.350]  The one and only.
[24:31.570 --> 24:36.670]  No, this is Peter I, who was the Tsar of Russia in 1682.
[24:36.670 --> 24:37.570]  Oh, different Peter.
[24:38.270 --> 24:38.390]  Yes.
[24:38.550 --> 24:38.610]  For Peter.
[24:38.830 --> 24:39.010]  Yes.
[24:39.150 --> 24:39.670]  Not the saint.
[24:39.870 --> 24:40.330]  The Tsar.
[24:40.570 --> 24:44.150]  But, you know, when you're talking about cities, every Tom, Dick, and Harry is named Peter.
[24:44.550 --> 24:44.750]  Yes.
[24:47.210 --> 24:48.170]  Thank you, everybody.
[24:48.390 --> 24:48.950]  These are the jokes.
[24:49.870 --> 25:01.590]  So, also, people are mentioning in the chat that, yes, trying to see all of Russia on one trip would be kind of complex because there are 11 time zones in the country.
[25:03.030 --> 25:11.350]  People are pointing out that Russia itself is twice as large, about twice as large as the United States.
[25:11.350 --> 25:18.150]  I'm feeling my position as the off-the-hook research department getting a little usurped here.
[25:19.070 --> 25:20.330]  And that's fine.
[25:20.970 --> 25:21.530]  That's...
[25:21.530 --> 25:22.390]  We appreciate all of you.
[25:24.830 --> 25:29.130]  So, should we give out the number again?
[25:30.570 --> 25:31.130]  Sure.
[25:31.550 --> 25:32.110]  Great.
[25:32.430 --> 25:39.110]  And please, anyone out there on the phone, with a phone handy, you're welcome to use that.
[25:39.270 --> 25:49.470]  And, of course, as we've mentioned, there's a chat on our YouTube stream, which is on channel 2600 on the YouTube platform.
[25:49.850 --> 25:53.830]  And if you have a story, something you saw that we missed, we'd love to hear that, too.
[25:53.950 --> 25:54.470]  We always...
[25:54.470 --> 25:59.950]  We can maybe talk about it another time when we're on the radio or back here.
[26:00.330 --> 26:11.210]  But thoughts, stories, stuff that you were amused by or that might be something to take a look at in the future, we're really interested in what people have to say.
[26:11.210 --> 26:14.890]  You can also submit stuff, too, via email.
[26:15.510 --> 26:19.350]  That address is O-T-H at 2600.com.
[26:19.950 --> 26:20.470]  Okay.
[26:20.470 --> 26:22.310]  I just learned the history of St. Petersburg.
[26:22.670 --> 26:23.110]  And I...
[26:23.110 --> 26:24.910]  You know, this is not my fault, okay?
[26:25.210 --> 26:29.590]  I had always been under the impression that St. Petersburg was named after Peter the Great.
[26:30.190 --> 26:32.990]  And look at this line here from Wikipedia.
[26:32.990 --> 26:45.210]  On May the 1st, 1703, Peter the Great took both the Swedish fortress of a city I can't possibly pronounce and the city of Nien on the Nova River.
[26:45.990 --> 26:57.270]  Zara Peter the Great founded the city of St. Petersburg on May 27, 1703 and named it after his patron saint, the apostle St. Peter.
[26:57.410 --> 27:00.150]  So Peter the Great named it St. Petersburg.
[27:00.490 --> 27:01.590]  Wait, scroll up for a sec.
[27:02.070 --> 27:02.730]  Spell what?
[27:02.730 --> 27:03.010]  Okay.
[27:03.390 --> 27:04.030]  No, I'm sorry.
[27:04.110 --> 27:05.750]  Rob also has this page open.
[27:05.950 --> 27:13.570]  So, Emperor of Russia, predecessor himself as Tsar of Russia, predecessor...
[27:13.570 --> 27:16.750]  I'm sorry, his successor as Tsar of Russia was himself.
[27:17.110 --> 27:18.370]  This is fascinating.
[27:18.710 --> 27:29.970]  But if you want to join in on this conversation about Peter the Great or anything else, feel free to give us a call at 802-321-HACK.
[27:30.890 --> 27:33.690]  That's 802-321-4225.
[27:34.170 --> 27:38.850]  And also, great thanks to our expanded off-the-hook research department.
[27:38.850 --> 27:40.110]  We appreciate you all.
[27:40.110 --> 27:41.730]  I don't feel usurped in the least.
[27:42.010 --> 27:44.950]  Because St. Peter wasn't the one collecting fetuses.
[27:45.130 --> 27:46.350]  Peter the Great was doing that.
[27:46.430 --> 27:52.070]  I didn't want to imply that a saint was going around collecting fetuses and storing them in pickle jars.
[27:52.070 --> 27:54.470]  So, wait, was he just doing this by association?
[27:54.610 --> 28:01.610]  He's just like, yeah, I'm Peter, but there was this other Peter who was really good, so I'm going to be sort of, you know, catch a little bit of...
[28:01.610 --> 28:10.970]  try to get some fame or some of that association and good thoughts because he had these crazy hobbies.
[28:12.050 --> 28:15.590]  Okay, well, you live and learn, right?
[28:15.850 --> 28:19.710]  The new city's first building was the Peter and Paul Fortress.
[28:19.710 --> 28:19.750]  Yes.
[28:20.590 --> 28:21.690]  No sign of Mary.
[28:24.410 --> 28:25.230]  A lot of history.
[28:25.390 --> 28:26.050]  He was leaving on a jet plane.
[28:26.270 --> 28:27.270]  A lot of history here.
[28:27.430 --> 28:27.790]  So much.
[28:29.310 --> 28:29.670]  Okay.
[28:30.170 --> 28:31.550]  Yeah, 802-321-4225.
[28:32.350 --> 28:33.490]  And I think we have a call.
[28:35.770 --> 28:36.670]  Do we have a call, Kyle?
[28:36.930 --> 28:37.290]  Okay.
[28:37.350 --> 28:37.990]  We do, yes.
[28:38.230 --> 28:38.830]  And good evening.
[28:38.950 --> 28:39.690]  You're on off-the-hook overtime.
[28:39.830 --> 28:40.050]  Go ahead.
[28:41.510 --> 28:43.210]  Hey, this is Johnny Fusion.
[28:43.450 --> 28:43.850]  Hey, Johnny.
[28:43.890 --> 28:44.230]  How you doing?
[28:45.830 --> 28:48.310]  Well, I'm out of the nursing facility.
[28:48.310 --> 28:49.070]  Oh, that's good.
[28:49.170 --> 28:51.110]  Did you escape or were you released?
[28:52.170 --> 28:53.970]  I was illegally dumped.
[28:54.250 --> 28:54.770]  Oh, dear.
[28:55.070 --> 29:01.750]  The thing that nursing facilities do is they just get rid of you in a hurry.
[29:02.590 --> 29:05.290]  And they put me in a hotel for 30 days.
[29:06.350 --> 29:09.970]  And I'm struggling trying to find a place to land.
[29:12.090 --> 29:12.550]  Wow.
[29:12.890 --> 29:13.070]  Okay.
[29:13.090 --> 29:14.150]  That's quite a story.
[29:15.490 --> 29:15.950]  Yeah.
[29:16.070 --> 29:18.270]  And actually, it leads me to what I wanted to talk about.
[29:18.730 --> 29:27.190]  Because, like, one of the things I'm doing, because I don't have much money, is going on Craigslist and looking for rooms in small places to rent.
[29:30.790 --> 29:35.590]  And literally, every single ad I answered turned out to be a scam.
[29:36.690 --> 29:37.410]  Wow.
[29:37.690 --> 29:39.390]  How does the scam work?
[29:41.050 --> 29:42.690]  So, how does the scam work?
[29:43.230 --> 29:48.470]  Well, the first scam was someone just doing the verification code scam.
[29:49.130 --> 29:51.070]  You know, trying to get into my Google account.
[29:51.350 --> 29:51.730]  Uh-huh.
[29:51.910 --> 29:52.890]  And I sent you a code.
[29:52.990 --> 29:53.750]  Give me the code.
[29:54.910 --> 29:55.270]  Right.
[29:55.750 --> 29:56.990]  So, I didn't fall for that.
[29:58.650 --> 29:59.450]  But the other one...
[29:59.450 --> 30:02.230]  They send you a code and you give them the code?
[30:02.230 --> 30:03.450]  How do they get access from that?
[30:04.730 --> 30:05.950]  Well, when you...
[30:05.950 --> 30:06.590]  It's like...
[30:06.590 --> 30:08.390]  It's a reset password code.
[30:09.390 --> 30:11.610]  Or a gain access code.
[30:12.030 --> 30:14.830]  You know, but I got two-factor authentication and stuff.
[30:14.990 --> 30:16.490]  So, they couldn't get in.
[30:17.050 --> 30:19.890]  So, they email Google.
[30:20.230 --> 30:22.110]  They say they forgot their password.
[30:22.510 --> 30:25.510]  And Google sends you a code.
[30:25.510 --> 30:28.230]  And then you tell them the code.
[30:28.530 --> 30:31.710]  Because you're fooled into thinking that the code came from them and not Google.
[30:31.710 --> 30:34.110]  And then they can get access to your account and you don't.
[30:35.030 --> 30:35.550]  Yeah.
[30:35.790 --> 30:37.130]  So, they had my phone number.
[30:37.170 --> 30:39.310]  Because I put my phone number in for text.
[30:39.930 --> 30:42.710]  And they actually went to my Google Voice.
[30:43.090 --> 30:44.950]  And tried to reset...
[30:46.450 --> 30:49.770]  Gain access to my Google account through the Google Voice portal.
[30:49.910 --> 30:53.270]  But Google, everything is all tied together.
[30:55.310 --> 30:59.490]  So, if you get into one Google application, you're in a mall.
[31:02.910 --> 31:04.970]  So, what was the next one that you encountered?
[31:06.230 --> 31:07.770]  So, the next one...
[31:07.770 --> 31:14.490]  And I think it was, like, organized by, like, some organization doing a scam.
[31:14.490 --> 31:16.550]  Or it was just the same person on different numbers.
[31:16.550 --> 31:18.610]  Because they used kind of, like, the similar script.
[31:18.930 --> 31:19.210]  Yeah.
[31:19.210 --> 31:22.190]  And what they do is they text you and they talk about...
[31:22.730 --> 31:24.190]  They act like a landlord.
[31:24.650 --> 31:25.070]  Right?
[31:25.450 --> 31:28.210]  And they talk about the room or the place.
[31:28.710 --> 31:30.050]  And they ask you questions.
[31:30.150 --> 31:31.050]  Do you have any evictions?
[31:31.230 --> 31:34.070]  So, they try to sound like a legitimate landlord.
[31:34.730 --> 31:37.990]  And they say, okay, let's schedule a time for you to come see the place.
[31:37.990 --> 31:43.110]  But before you do, I want you to fill out this application and do a credit check.
[31:44.150 --> 31:44.630]  Right?
[31:46.710 --> 31:47.970]  Now, you're not...
[31:47.970 --> 31:48.710]  So, you should...
[31:48.710 --> 31:51.770]  So, this is for everyone out there when you're looking for a place.
[31:52.010 --> 31:56.850]  You should never fill out an application before you see the place.
[31:57.890 --> 31:58.510]  Mm-hmm.
[31:58.710 --> 32:04.190]  There's no reason to pre-fill out an application before you see the place and agree to take it.
[32:05.110 --> 32:05.590]  Right.
[32:05.590 --> 32:16.010]  And what these forms do is they're used to do identity theft or get your credit card number.
[32:16.110 --> 32:21.330]  Because, of course, there's a little fee for the background check or whatever they say.
[32:21.950 --> 32:24.530]  And they're not legitimate at all.
[32:26.970 --> 32:27.590]  Hmm.
[32:29.090 --> 32:34.290]  So, what are your options as a...
[32:34.710 --> 32:36.890]  I don't know, after you get past all of this?
[32:37.050 --> 32:38.990]  And what kind of luck are you having?
[32:39.090 --> 32:47.250]  Or what's your biggest obstacle in what you've found that might be suitable for, you know, temporary housing?
[32:48.270 --> 32:56.450]  Yeah, the biggest obstacle is because, like, because I'm, you know, because of all my health problem and issues that have gone on for years.
[32:56.450 --> 32:59.790]  I'm on the social security disability, right?
[32:59.790 --> 33:05.890]  And that forces me to live in sub-poverty.
[33:08.060 --> 33:08.470]  Right?
[33:08.870 --> 33:09.390]  Because...
[33:09.390 --> 33:11.770]  And so I'm priced out of most places.
[33:14.950 --> 33:15.770]  Mm-hmm.
[33:15.770 --> 33:19.830]  So I have to find, you know, roommates or something.
[33:19.830 --> 33:21.630]  But I do got...
[33:21.630 --> 33:25.050]  I do have a fallback and I have the lead.
[33:26.150 --> 33:28.310]  So, you know, I'm running out of time in the hotel.
[33:29.530 --> 33:32.710]  But the fallback is I'll stay with one of my partners.
[33:36.410 --> 33:42.610]  And they rent a room about an hour away from Stanford.
[33:42.710 --> 33:44.590]  So I got to stay close to my transplant center, right?
[33:46.030 --> 33:50.230]  And I could stay with them until I find more permanent play scenes.
[33:50.790 --> 33:53.270]  But basically, I don't get...
[33:53.270 --> 33:54.590]  I don't like their kid.
[33:56.050 --> 33:56.810]  Fair enough.
[33:56.870 --> 33:57.370]  They're grown.
[33:57.610 --> 33:58.490]  They're grown.
[33:58.850 --> 34:04.270]  But, you know, and I don't like how the kid treats my partner and stuff like that.
[34:04.430 --> 34:04.830]  So...
[34:04.830 --> 34:05.430]  And they're loud.
[34:05.870 --> 34:11.470]  And so I can't say they're long just because it's just incompatible personalities.
[34:12.130 --> 34:12.670]  Right?
[34:12.670 --> 34:14.390]  I mean, but any shelter in the storm.
[34:15.610 --> 34:15.750]  Yep.
[34:15.750 --> 34:21.390]  And I have another lead back up in the foothills near where I used to live before transplant.
[34:23.250 --> 34:26.570]  Where an ex of mine may be...
[34:26.570 --> 34:31.390]  May have a lead on a trailer that she'll put on the hookups next to her house.
[34:31.410 --> 34:34.310]  And I could have the trailer to rent for a small price.
[34:36.310 --> 34:37.270]  So hopefully...
[34:37.270 --> 34:41.550]  Hopefully I'll land somewhere and I'll be safe and I won't be out on the street.
[34:42.010 --> 34:43.750]  I think Rob has a question for you.
[34:44.590 --> 34:45.010]  Yeah.
[34:45.390 --> 34:53.110]  First of all, obviously, Johnny, we all wish you the best of luck in finding somewhere to crash and bettering your situation.
[34:53.430 --> 34:59.190]  But yeah, some people are mentioning in the YouTube chat that scams are rife on Craigslist right now.
[34:59.410 --> 35:03.590]  And that said, you know, I've gotten apartments from Craigslist in the past and it's done the job.
[35:03.750 --> 35:04.050]  It's worked.
[35:04.050 --> 35:12.630]  But even in the building where Gila and I are living right now, there are signs up in the building saying, if you're here from Craigslist, you've been scammed.
[35:12.810 --> 35:13.970]  We don't rent through Craigslist.
[35:14.110 --> 35:17.030]  We have a broker and this is the contact info for them.
[35:17.410 --> 35:21.530]  But enough of it is going on where they've got to post a sign now like that.
[35:22.170 --> 35:23.350]  Wait, well, who's that sign for?
[35:23.450 --> 35:29.070]  People who have already moved into an apartment that they don't have any right to or they're in the hallway to read it.
[35:29.070 --> 35:38.970]  But yeah, people who show up here thinking they're going to see an apartment or move into an apartment, but are not because they're talking to someone who's not involved with renting this building out.
[35:39.330 --> 35:45.350]  And then they're like, perhaps one of the people that had pre-filled out an application as was described.
[35:46.310 --> 35:46.750]  Wow.
[35:46.970 --> 35:49.710]  You ever see anybody reading that sign saying, oh my God.
[35:50.510 --> 35:52.030]  I mean, we read it all the time.
[35:52.210 --> 35:54.930]  And now I'm curious if we can actually find our building on Craigslist.
[35:57.850 --> 35:58.610]  You might.
[35:59.070 --> 35:59.570]  You know, yeah.
[36:00.470 --> 36:00.770]  Take a look.
[36:00.810 --> 36:02.450]  Like, these people could be anywhere.
[36:02.810 --> 36:07.070]  Like, they could spoof a phone number and they have the same script.
[36:07.450 --> 36:12.010]  Like, there were slight variations, so it wasn't quite a bot.
[36:14.630 --> 36:20.990]  But, like, and I only confronted one and said, like, I know this is a scam.
[36:20.990 --> 36:23.050]  I'm not going to fall for it.
[36:23.130 --> 36:29.050]  And they got really upset and started sending me pictures of a place and trying to...
[36:29.050 --> 36:29.990]  seem more legit.
[36:31.570 --> 36:34.350]  This is so true to life, though.
[36:34.550 --> 36:37.370]  Like, people want something affordable.
[36:37.370 --> 36:40.570]  They want something to help with the situation.
[36:40.570 --> 36:44.510]  And you either do this or you try to go through some larger organization.
[36:44.510 --> 36:46.350]  And, um...
[36:46.350 --> 36:47.190]  It's just...
[36:47.190 --> 36:51.150]  It really preys upon a huge need out there for options.
[36:51.690 --> 36:53.390]  You know, stuff in between.
[36:53.830 --> 36:54.630]  Yeah, because these are all the...
[36:54.630 --> 36:56.330]  Like, they're all low-cost.
[36:56.550 --> 36:57.410]  Oh, fully, right?
[36:57.410 --> 37:02.750]  Very, very meager budget of being on the SSBI, you know?
[37:02.950 --> 37:05.830]  But every single one...
[37:05.830 --> 37:07.590]  Every single one was a scam.
[37:09.330 --> 37:10.710]  Like, if...
[37:10.710 --> 37:18.070]  Like, I'm sure there's legitimate listings out there, but they're all priced more per month than what Social Security pays me.
[37:19.450 --> 37:27.310]  Yeah, and there are so many other situations that put people at the same income level, but it's just not to be excluded.
[37:27.450 --> 37:31.510]  This is such a, um, you know, practical circumstance.
[37:31.870 --> 37:36.530]  And if people are, uh, out there doing this, you just have to be super vigilant.
[37:36.810 --> 37:37.750]  And, uh...
[37:37.750 --> 37:42.810]  Hopefully, we can find some more resources as a society or just, uh, in the conversation.
[37:42.810 --> 37:46.010]  Uh, but, um, definitely keep us updated.
[37:46.350 --> 37:50.370]  I want to make sure you're, uh, you're taken care of and you have options.
[37:50.370 --> 37:57.490]  But it's good that you're, you're reaching out to family and, and, uh, and friends that, you know, can at least backstop you for another short period.
[37:58.950 --> 38:00.310]  Yeah, friends mostly.
[38:00.490 --> 38:05.590]  I'm, I'm estranged from most of my family, but, you know, they're conservative and boomers.
[38:05.730 --> 38:09.970]  I meant that in the most, in, in a very broad sense, family, uh...
[38:09.970 --> 38:10.610]  Chosen family.
[38:10.930 --> 38:12.070]  Chosen, indeed, yes.
[38:12.930 --> 38:13.770]  Yes, indeed.
[38:14.710 --> 38:15.190]  Yeah.
[38:16.810 --> 38:17.770]  But, uh...
[38:17.770 --> 38:19.690]  Us included here, we're just...
[38:20.690 --> 38:27.630]  So, um, did you guys cover the story about the lawyer that used chat GPT for a brief?
[38:27.630 --> 38:30.450]  It was, it was on our list, but we didn't get to it.
[38:30.570 --> 38:31.830]  But yeah, we heard about that.
[38:32.050 --> 38:34.590]  That's, uh, another inevitable thing.
[38:34.730 --> 38:36.450]  But, uh, what was your take on it?
[38:37.710 --> 38:39.390]  I thought it was...
[38:39.390 --> 38:41.450]  Well, again, it's people misunderstand.
[38:41.450 --> 38:54.190]  Like, we've talked about this in past weeks, about how chat GPT and other large language models will just string stuff together that seems plausible, that has no basis in reality.
[38:56.190 --> 38:57.010]  That's right.
[38:57.410 --> 39:00.910]  And it's like, and people are using these tools out of ignorance.
[39:01.110 --> 39:08.890]  I think people have gotten used, I think it started actually back in the 50s.
[39:09.510 --> 39:14.070]  Like, when you see something on a screen, you just assume it's true.
[39:14.470 --> 39:16.950]  Like, Walter Cronkite wouldn't lie to you.
[39:17.070 --> 39:17.290]  No.
[39:17.950 --> 39:20.150]  Well, I fully agree.
[39:20.170 --> 39:21.050]  No, you're onto this.
[39:21.270 --> 39:33.810]  I was kind of broaching it a little bit earlier when we were talking about, um, uh, just the trustworthiness of the media and how, well, if money rules, like, lots of people...
[39:33.810 --> 39:54.690]  There's lots of people with money, but having money and, like, journalistic integrity doesn't all, you know, that's often rare, especially in, you know, to buy up papers and industries and pantomime like a media organization and stuff it with fake or,
[39:54.850 --> 39:58.570]  like, in this instance, automated stuff is trivial.
[39:58.570 --> 40:05.030]  Like, people spend money on stupid, you know, wrong-headed things all the time.
[40:05.150 --> 40:12.010]  And there are plenty of bad actors with the means, willing to do this, and maybe, historically, who already have.
[40:12.210 --> 40:14.710]  And we're experiencing the effects of it.
[40:14.870 --> 40:16.570]  I mean, one of the things...
[40:16.570 --> 40:25.950]  Well, like, even back in the way olden days in print media, like Hearst and Yellow Journalism and all that stuff.
[40:26.130 --> 40:26.350]  Right.
[40:26.390 --> 40:27.350]  It goes way back.
[40:27.350 --> 40:29.910]  Well, I think it's the democratization.
[40:30.110 --> 40:33.510]  Like, the cost, the means of production is cheaper.
[40:33.930 --> 40:44.410]  You, you know, no longer have to have, like, a $100,000 TV camera on your shoulder to go out and create content.
[40:44.630 --> 40:47.330]  I mean, the content itself has been cheapened.
[40:47.570 --> 40:54.730]  A lot of these places, because they have been defunded in a lot of ways, are running leaner, leaner newsrooms and so forth.
[40:54.730 --> 41:02.670]  So they're not producing at a level that had the bearing, the stamp of approval, the trustworthiness behind it.
[41:02.750 --> 41:07.190]  In the 50s, it took means to produce that.
[41:07.190 --> 41:18.710]  So the interests were few that were doing it, and they had a mandate to inform the audience in that they were the only, kind of the only show in town.
[41:18.710 --> 41:20.630]  So it's changed throughout history.
[41:20.830 --> 41:23.270]  Now it's like, oh, we're all citizen journalists.
[41:23.530 --> 41:26.070]  Well, we can all fake that, too.
[41:26.370 --> 41:31.830]  And, I mean, the means of production itself are so incredibly cheap now that it bears...
[41:31.830 --> 41:45.230]  Whereas, I mean, to have that impression that anything coming through a screen is valid is something that I think is being exploited here.
[41:45.230 --> 42:01.330]  And I think something I felt for a long time, and I think we're starting to see how bad it can go, is the similarities with a machine learning or an artificial intelligence.
[42:01.450 --> 42:05.690]  I think capitalism itself can be that without human intervention.
[42:05.690 --> 42:31.610]  You have, like, these entities that are just operating, you know, mindlessly from board to board, from buyout to, you know, M&A to becoming just part of a huge portfolio in these investment and other vehicles that all of a sudden, yeah, they're a large media organization,
[42:31.810 --> 42:34.490]  but their whole existence is money.
[42:34.490 --> 42:46.630]  I mean, that is... this is the concept of media consolidation and its ill effect being demonstrated en masse.
[42:47.410 --> 42:56.810]  Well, anyway, this particular case, I just wanted to update people on it, involved a lawyer named Stephen Schwartz from the firm Levedal, Levedal & Obermann.
[42:57.210 --> 43:00.630]  His whole career of several decades is now in jeopardy.
[43:00.630 --> 43:12.570]  He was the lawyer for a guy named Roberto Mata, who was suing an airline, Avianca Airlines, after a serving cart injured his knee during a flight.
[43:12.830 --> 43:16.330]  Now, Avianca was attempting to dismiss the case, get the case dismissed.
[43:16.950 --> 43:24.610]  And what his lawyer, Stephen Schwartz, did was use ChatGPT to come up with similar cases.
[43:24.610 --> 43:29.730]  And ChatGPT was very helpful, giving names of the cases.
[43:30.390 --> 43:37.010]  Varghese versus China Southern Airlines, Shabun versus Egypt Air, Peterson versus Iran Air.
[43:37.110 --> 43:38.110]  Many of you might remember that one.
[43:38.750 --> 43:44.270]  Martinez versus Delta Airlines, Estate of Durden versus KLM, Royal Dutch Airlines.
[43:44.530 --> 43:47.670]  And finally, of course, Miller versus United Airlines.
[43:47.990 --> 43:50.430]  Not one of those cases actually existed.
[43:50.430 --> 43:54.210]  It's very similar to the movie that ChatGPT made up.
[43:54.450 --> 43:56.570]  No, actually, it was Barth that made up the movie for us.
[43:57.590 --> 44:05.210]  So what this guy did was he relied on ChatGPT to help out, which is a good thing to do.
[44:05.330 --> 44:07.270]  But he didn't double check.
[44:07.730 --> 44:10.890]  And had he done that, he would have realized it was all fiction.
[44:11.150 --> 44:11.790]  Yes, Rob.
[44:12.770 --> 44:28.090]  Yes, not only did this lawyer rely on basically autocomplete to write his legal filing for him, but in a strange coincidence, the judge presiding over this case is Judge P. Kevin Castell, who was Virgil Griffith's judge presiding over his case.
[44:28.150 --> 44:28.970]  Oh, he's a hard ass.
[44:29.310 --> 44:30.150]  In the U.S.
[44:30.490 --> 44:30.830]  district court.
[44:31.250 --> 44:33.250]  He's always in a bad mood, I can tell you that.
[44:34.130 --> 44:35.910]  So this is him dealing with that.
[44:36.010 --> 44:44.530]  So knowing what you know about that judge and having him have to deal with this, I'm sure he is not thinking kindly of this lawyer right now.
[44:44.690 --> 44:44.910]  No.
[44:45.130 --> 44:51.430]  By the way, I just got an alert sent to one of our phone lines here about air quality.
[44:51.510 --> 44:52.790]  We talked about it in the last hour.
[44:53.010 --> 44:55.570]  But, you know, they have this scale.
[44:55.690 --> 44:59.150]  If you want to look at something interesting, there's a website, waqi.info.
[44:59.270 --> 45:00.530]  AQI means Air Quality Index.
[45:01.330 --> 45:06.670]  And there's basically, it goes from, I think, zero to 500.
[45:08.070 --> 45:12.670]  Where you are right now, Rob, in Queens, it's about 328.
[45:13.670 --> 45:16.230]  And there's parts of Long Island that are similar, 325.
[45:17.330 --> 45:19.670]  There's six different categories.
[45:20.770 --> 45:31.310]  There's good, there's moderate, there's unhealthy for sensitive groups, there's unhealthy, there's very unhealthy, and then there's the one that we're at right now, which is hazardous.
[45:31.310 --> 45:36.550]  And what that means is everyone, everyone may experience more serious health effects.
[45:37.410 --> 45:42.670]  So if you're in the area, the tri-state area, it's a good idea not to go out.
[45:42.730 --> 45:44.610]  If you do go out, wear a damn mask.
[45:44.810 --> 45:49.850]  Because I imagine there's people out there saying, oh, if I wear a mask, people are going to think I'm afraid of COVID.
[45:50.050 --> 45:50.810]  And you know what?
[45:50.810 --> 45:52.110]  Let them think whatever they want to think.
[45:52.450 --> 45:54.330]  And you should be afraid of COVID anyway.
[45:54.330 --> 45:59.870]  But the point is, right now, you should be afraid of what's in the air and avoid that however possible.
[45:59.970 --> 46:02.650]  It's the highest possible ranking.
[46:03.090 --> 46:05.150]  I never thought I'd see something like this.
[46:05.290 --> 46:20.570]  They say New York City today had the worst air pollution since the 1960s, which, you know, is kind of affirming that, wow, okay, so we've come that far that it took us this long to descend into that level of pollution.
[46:21.030 --> 46:23.810]  But it's also something that's happening right now.
[46:23.810 --> 46:25.810]  So we have to take it seriously, be careful.
[46:26.170 --> 46:32.370]  And especially if you have asthma or any kind of lung issues, stay out of the outside.
[46:33.830 --> 46:34.230]  Absolutely.
[46:35.650 --> 46:41.550]  That website used to be my friend when I still had lung disease with my original luck.
[46:42.950 --> 46:45.830]  Well, if you're looking to get lung disease, this might be the way to do it.
[46:46.890 --> 46:47.550]  Yeah, I know.
[46:47.630 --> 46:48.710]  I don't want to go through that again.
[46:49.030 --> 46:50.630]  I mean, oh, actually, I had good news.
[46:50.630 --> 46:56.330]  I did see my immunology team, and my underlying autoimmune illness is in complete remission.
[46:56.330 --> 46:56.850]  Awesome.
[46:57.270 --> 46:57.410]  Whoa.
[46:58.390 --> 46:58.790]  Fantastic.
[46:59.130 --> 46:59.610]  That is wonderful.
[46:59.830 --> 47:00.110]  Outstanding.
[47:00.250 --> 47:01.190]  That's such good news.
[47:02.490 --> 47:02.790]  Yeah.
[47:03.690 --> 47:04.630]  Rob, you had something else?
[47:05.870 --> 47:06.270]  Yeah.
[47:06.390 --> 47:12.930]  No, I was just going to say, I've been using the site airnow.gov, which I mentioned on our radio hour, which is basically the same thing.
[47:13.070 --> 47:14.030]  It's put up by the EPA.
[47:15.370 --> 47:18.470]  And yeah, the same scale, the same totals and everything.
[47:18.610 --> 47:21.290]  And you can look up any location in the country.
[47:21.290 --> 47:25.450]  And all kinds of different pollutants and different air quality things.
[47:25.570 --> 47:33.190]  And I'm glad that we're getting this service from the EPA, because I have harbored a mistrust of the EPA since 1984.
[47:33.730 --> 47:38.010]  And I'm glad that they're doing some good in the world.
[47:38.390 --> 47:38.850]  Yes.
[47:38.910 --> 47:41.370]  And why have you mistrusted the EPA since 1984?
[47:42.230 --> 47:42.790]  Ghostbusters.
[47:43.550 --> 47:44.110]  Wow.
[47:44.270 --> 47:44.590]  Okay.
[47:44.890 --> 47:45.910]  Well, it comes out now.
[47:48.630 --> 47:52.990]  I wanted to skip back to trusting screens.
[47:53.270 --> 47:53.510]  Yeah.
[47:53.770 --> 47:55.450]  So I had another point on that.
[47:56.650 --> 47:59.090]  People trust software, especially.
[47:59.530 --> 47:59.730]  Yeah.
[47:59.810 --> 48:02.410]  Because they're not used to computers lying to them.
[48:02.650 --> 48:09.650]  If you're using an application and it gives you an error message or an alert of some kind, that really happens.
[48:09.750 --> 48:11.390]  And you have to take action.
[48:11.390 --> 48:26.850]  Well, usually, like when I was in high school and hacking, we would create false computer messages for, you know, because people trust computers and compromise things that way.
[48:26.970 --> 48:28.570]  I mean, the statute of limitations.
[48:28.850 --> 48:31.510]  I mean, that was 35 years ago or more.
[48:32.490 --> 48:34.370]  So I'm not worried about statute of limitations.
[48:34.650 --> 48:43.250]  But we would use this trust for what you see on a computer screen generated by software to give false messages.
[48:47.550 --> 48:58.050]  And, you know, there was one thing we could do on a VAX system is we could hijack the login script.
[48:58.050 --> 49:01.450]  We had this other script that looked like the login script.
[49:03.050 --> 49:04.430]  This is on VMS.
[49:05.190 --> 49:08.190]  It was a script that looked like a login script.
[49:08.810 --> 49:11.330]  And so you're putting your username and your password.
[49:11.810 --> 49:18.590]  And the original version of this just said wrong password and dumped you to the real login while it collected passwords.
[49:19.010 --> 49:27.710]  But then my best friend made an improvement to it where it actually called the login function with what they put in.
[49:27.870 --> 49:29.510]  So it was seamless.
[49:32.270 --> 49:32.850]  Cool.
[49:33.830 --> 49:37.090]  So revised it and improved it.
[49:38.570 --> 49:39.150]  Yeah.
[49:39.630 --> 49:41.610]  You know, it's an old attack.
[49:41.970 --> 49:43.750]  I mean, this is from the 80s and stuff.
[49:44.130 --> 49:46.650]  You know, so, you know, we didn't invent this attack.
[49:46.870 --> 50:03.170]  But he did put in the little elegance of having it actually call the actual login service and attempting the password and returning the error if it actually was wrong and not recording the password or just logging them in.
[50:03.350 --> 50:03.850]  Right.
[50:04.450 --> 50:05.670]  Recording the password.
[50:09.960 --> 50:15.180]  By the way, I just looked up St. Petersburg, Russia, and their air quality is 23.
[50:17.100 --> 50:20.180]  It's as good as it could be in St. Petersburg.
[50:20.180 --> 50:21.580]  So maybe Rebel has the right idea.
[50:22.760 --> 50:23.720]  Maybe he does.
[50:25.480 --> 50:37.660]  Yeah, another one we did was we put in on a DOS machine at our high school for a computer we didn't want other people using because we had our shit on there.
[50:37.660 --> 50:50.560]  Uh, when it, on the auto exec bat, it put up the message, operating system not found, insert any keys, or insert a disk to reboot.
[50:51.080 --> 50:57.680]  And we used some ANSI, remember ANSI codes, to make the prompt black.
[50:57.960 --> 51:00.840]  So the prompt was invisible, black on black.
[51:02.000 --> 51:06.680]  So it looked like, oh, there's no operating system on this hard drive.
[51:06.680 --> 51:10.240]  But you just press any key, and it just boots up regularly.
[51:12.380 --> 51:13.780]  And which one is the any key?
[51:14.060 --> 51:17.980]  And one time we, uh, went in and we found a DOS floppy disk in the floppy drive.
[51:18.280 --> 51:22.260]  Because the teacher had tried to use the computer and believed it.
[51:22.400 --> 51:26.860]  And didn't press any keys or anything, just believed it, and got a floppy disk to boot off a floppy.
[51:28.260 --> 51:29.380]  It's start over.
[51:31.760 --> 51:32.580]  That's brilliant.
[51:33.000 --> 51:33.220]  Yeah.
[51:34.240 --> 51:35.580]  It's, uh, believing machines.
[51:35.580 --> 51:45.420]  I mean, I think the social engineering, same thing, um, you know, creating a situation that's technical, that you need someone to react in a way that they're not actually anticipating.
[51:45.420 --> 51:46.640]  And that's how you get.
[51:49.920 --> 51:50.360]  Yeah.
[51:50.620 --> 51:53.740]  And these scams are just a form of social engineering, too.
[51:53.900 --> 51:55.380]  Because they go through the whole script.
[51:55.380 --> 52:02.920]  Like, like, this is the rent, this is where it's located, do you have any evictions on your record or landlord judgment?
[52:03.680 --> 52:03.960]  Uh-huh.
[52:04.100 --> 52:04.640]  Um, what else?
[52:04.820 --> 52:05.300]  Formulaic.
[52:05.560 --> 52:06.080]  Yeah, yeah.
[52:06.620 --> 52:07.040]  Yeah.
[52:08.400 --> 52:16.840]  You know, trying to come off like a real landlord, and really, they send you to this fake website that steals your identity and credit card.
[52:16.920 --> 52:18.620]  Probably charges your credit card, too.
[52:19.340 --> 52:19.960]  Oh, yeah.
[52:20.700 --> 52:21.000]  Mm-hmm.
[52:21.580 --> 52:22.060]  Sinister.
[52:22.580 --> 52:23.500]  So sinister.
[52:26.060 --> 52:28.380]  All right, we, uh, we're going to move on.
[52:28.480 --> 52:30.840]  Yeah, we, uh, we are ready to...
[52:30.840 --> 52:32.140]  Okay, thanks for, thanks for taking my call.
[52:32.140 --> 52:32.740]  Of course, yes.
[52:32.860 --> 52:33.660]  And best of luck to you.
[52:35.180 --> 52:35.880]  Thank you.
[52:36.640 --> 52:40.060]  Hopefully, by next time I call, I'm situated in a place.
[52:41.120 --> 52:42.640]  Yeah, best of luck with the search.
[52:42.860 --> 52:48.400]  And, um, and, uh, make sure you, uh, get, get some rest as well.
[52:48.520 --> 52:49.840]  Don't get too stressed out over it.
[52:49.840 --> 53:00.900]  And it's, it's, uh, it's a minor thing in the moment, but it's, it's huge, uh, as far as, you know, comfort and, and, uh, your ability to stay healthy and so forth.
[53:01.100 --> 53:02.440]  So, definitely take care.
[53:02.440 --> 53:05.420]  And we're, we're, we're hoping for a good outcome there.
[53:07.000 --> 53:08.200]  Thank you very much, everyone.
[53:08.580 --> 53:08.860]  All right.
[53:08.920 --> 53:09.240]  Be well.
[53:10.700 --> 53:11.980]  We have the force to be with you.
[53:13.400 --> 53:14.560]  Back at you, Johnny Fusion.
[53:14.920 --> 53:15.660]  Go ahead, go ahead.
[53:16.280 --> 53:21.000]  Um, Emmanuel, we actually have a question for you from the YouTube chat.
[53:21.360 --> 53:23.800]  Question is, what year did Emmanuel start with WBAI?
[53:24.740 --> 53:27.020]  I'm listening to some of the old shows from the 90s.
[53:27.020 --> 53:30.460]  It was kind of interesting hearing him reference political events happening around then.
[53:30.980 --> 53:36.040]  Uh, 1988 was actually the first, the first time I was, uh, given a show.
[53:36.440 --> 53:38.900]  Uh, it was a special, the special edition of Off the Hook.
[53:39.460 --> 53:42.340]  Uh, and, um, I think that was the first year I walked in.
[53:42.460 --> 53:44.760]  I'm pretty sure I walked in early 1988.
[53:44.760 --> 53:46.780]  It might've been 87, but I think it was 88.
[53:47.460 --> 53:56.420]  And, uh, I, I, I started doing, uh, work in the news department and then eventually just, um, uh, started doing, I, I was engineering too at the same time.
[53:56.420 --> 53:58.900]  And, and moved my way up.
[53:59.180 --> 54:01.000]  So it was, uh, it was pretty awesome.
[54:01.820 --> 54:15.820]  I'd like to just comment on the listening back to old programs and that, um, that sensation you get when you hear older stuff and you're listening to it with current day, um, politics or social phenomena.
[54:16.200 --> 54:24.940]  It is a really, um, an interesting way to experience both the past in the present and hear how, uh, things come back around.
[54:24.940 --> 54:30.460]  I, I, I've told this story a couple of times, but I would listen, um, because I would donate it to the station.
[54:30.600 --> 54:41.100]  I would get, um, uh, sometimes, uh, premiums were offered to get, um, uh, memberships and the, the old programs were like a thank you gift.
[54:41.100 --> 54:49.680]  So listening to those and going back, um, I think I was, I was doing, uh, jobs or, and basically had some free time.
[54:49.760 --> 54:54.440]  So I'd, I'd have it in the background and I did it, um, while listening to the current programs.
[54:54.740 --> 55:06.260]  And when you go in, in sequence, there's a certain strange thing that happens after a while, what the programs are about start having a weird synchronicity.
[55:06.260 --> 55:13.180]  Either it's coincidence or it's the fact that there are certain constants and things that come up over and over again.
[55:13.280 --> 55:24.300]  But if you get into a good listening cycle of the old programs that are hosted on 2600.com, especially, uh, OTH or even, um, uh, voice of long Island and all of those.
[55:24.300 --> 55:31.780]  It's really fascinating because the things that are referenced in the past and the eighties and the nineties and so forth, they are still speaking to us today.
[55:32.060 --> 55:34.680]  And, um, I encourage people to have a lot of fun with that.
[55:34.800 --> 55:40.960]  If you have the time to do that and, and are, um, uh, listening for it, because it's a cool sensation.
[55:40.960 --> 55:42.720]  I know exactly what they're referring to.
[55:43.060 --> 55:43.680]  Go ahead, Gail.
[55:43.980 --> 55:51.100]  And actually, as far as that goes, I just went to the off the hook archive on 2600.com and took a look back at the very first show.
[55:51.100 --> 56:04.940]  And I'm realizing that you could have some sort of 35th anniversary extravaganza event at Coney Island Maker Faire because after the fire, the first episode of off the hook aired on October 7th, 1988.
[56:05.040 --> 56:09.280]  And the 35th anniversary will hit during Coney Island Maker Faire this October.
[56:09.960 --> 56:10.440]  Okay.
[56:10.500 --> 56:17.420]  Well, I guess I've just been roped into doing some kind of special from there, but, uh, yeah, that's, that's, that's something I, wow.
[56:17.640 --> 56:18.500]  Time sure flies.
[56:18.500 --> 56:20.760]  Mm-hmm.
[56:21.340 --> 56:22.400]  Dunk tank, right?
[56:22.600 --> 56:22.820]  Yeah.
[56:23.260 --> 56:24.240]  No, I'm kidding.
[56:24.380 --> 56:24.780]  I'm kidding.
[56:25.060 --> 56:27.760]  Well, it's funny because that first show was supposed to be on the afternoon.
[56:27.760 --> 56:32.680]  I think it was in July and there was a fire in the Empire State Building where our transmitter was.
[56:32.780 --> 56:38.860]  And every station that used the Empire State Building was knocked off the air literally two minutes before my show was going to go on.
[56:38.960 --> 56:39.640]  I was so nervous.
[56:39.880 --> 56:43.360]  You know, the first time ever off the hook would have been on the air in the afternoon.
[56:44.100 --> 56:47.860]  And, um, um, they said, yeah, sorry, that's, uh, tough luck.
[56:48.200 --> 56:49.700]  We'll, we'll try to reschedule you.
[56:49.820 --> 56:53.680]  And it took until October before another slot opened up and that was late at night.
[56:54.140 --> 56:59.200]  And actually that turned out to be much better because it was able to be expanded from the initial one hour.
[56:59.200 --> 57:06.080]  It turned into this big teleconference that, um, our 10 line phone was able to accommodate that nobody else at the station had ever done before.
[57:06.280 --> 57:20.260]  So a little bit of history was made there, but it was just so ironic sitting in the control room on that July afternoon, realizing that of all the radio stations that were knocked off the air, I was probably the only person doing an actual radio program.
[57:20.440 --> 57:23.280]  Everything else was just playing music and the usual format.
[57:23.460 --> 57:26.700]  And they had staff that would be on later the same day or the next day.
[57:26.700 --> 57:29.100]  I was the only one that was really screwed though.
[57:29.300 --> 57:32.880]  I just, I, I've never finished, um, uh, processing that.
[57:33.020 --> 57:39.780]  And it's just, uh, uh, it, it anchors me to this day when I don't know what the cause of the fire was, but boy, it was, it was, it was well-timed.
[57:40.000 --> 57:41.480]  But again, it all worked out.
[57:42.240 --> 57:49.300]  It's amazing what the priorities are when you're behind the scenes, when you're producing something, you just want to get, get what you have to say.
[57:49.300 --> 57:53.220]  You want it to, to come off, sound good, you know, make it a great conversation.
[57:53.220 --> 57:58.340]  And there's always so much going on with, uh, whatever the case.
[58:00.900 --> 58:03.880]  I'm sure that was one of the fires I had nothing to do with in 1988.
[58:04.920 --> 58:05.900]  Let's, let's hope so.
[58:06.000 --> 58:06.520]  Let's hope so.
[58:07.360 --> 58:07.840]  All right.
[58:07.880 --> 58:10.100]  We're going to, uh, we're going to call it a night, I think.
[58:10.380 --> 58:12.660]  Should we shut this thing down or wait another minute?
[58:12.840 --> 58:14.280]  Are we doing it exactly at nine?
[58:15.000 --> 58:16.660]  I'm, I'm in favor of doing it at nine.
[58:16.840 --> 58:17.060]  Yes.
[58:18.180 --> 58:18.540]  Yes.
[58:19.600 --> 58:21.460]  Well, so it was, it was a pleasure.
[58:21.620 --> 58:22.700]  We haven't been on in three weeks.
[58:22.820 --> 58:24.740]  So, um, good to see everybody again.
[58:25.720 --> 58:26.160]  Absolutely.
[58:26.980 --> 58:27.600]  Nice to be back.
[58:27.820 --> 58:35.800]  And again, thank you to our currently 24 active YouTube watchers, many of whom have been active in the chat.
[58:36.000 --> 58:39.700]  Thank you so much for participating with us this evening.
[58:40.360 --> 58:55.360]  Um, you know, again, nice to be able to have these auxiliary discussions going on, um, in the chat, people on the phone, people on the, on the show, it, it all works very nicely dovetailing together, uh, working out the wrinkles.
[58:55.360 --> 58:57.040]  I think this is a good thing for all of us.
[58:57.700 --> 59:03.480]  Oh, well, thank you very much for, uh, for doing the moderation and, uh, hopefully it wasn't too stressful.
[59:04.520 --> 59:05.420]  This was great.
[59:06.820 --> 59:07.640]  This was great.
[59:07.900 --> 59:08.100]  All right.
[59:08.160 --> 59:08.580]  Write to us.
[59:08.720 --> 59:10.360]  OTH at 2600.com.
[59:10.760 --> 59:12.560]  We will see you again next week.
[59:13.400 --> 59:13.740]  Good night.