[00:00.000 --> 00:05.380]  ...of a new and different system, and how and why we ought to be talking about that.
[00:05.800 --> 00:07.440]  This is Richard Wolff.
[00:07.600 --> 00:12.640]  Hope you found this interesting, and I look forward to speaking with you again next week.
[00:13.880 --> 00:21.940]  All right, and the previous program was Economic Update with Professor Richard Wolff, heard Wednesdays at 6.30 p.m.
[00:22.020 --> 00:26.780]  on WBAI New York, 99.5 FM and WBAI.org online.
[00:26.780 --> 00:29.160]  It's almost one minute past 7 p.m.
[00:29.240 --> 00:31.900]  Stay tuned for Off The Hook, coming up.
[01:05.930 --> 01:09.410]  And the time is just about 7 p.m.
[01:09.650 --> 01:10.750]  Call it 7.01.
[01:12.350 --> 01:23.250]  You are listening to radio station WBAI 99.5 FM here in New York, and it is time for another exciting edition of Off The Hook.
[01:33.910 --> 01:53.290]  So I ripped it off the wall I cut myself while shaving Now I can't make a call We couldn't get much worse But if they could, they would Bum Diddly Bum But the best is back for worst I hope that's understood Bum Diddly Bum
[02:21.380 --> 02:27.780]  A very good evening to you indeed The program is Off The Hook Rob T.
[02:27.920 --> 02:32.560]  Firefly here with you And I am joined in this studio by Gila Hello!
[02:33.420 --> 02:36.320]  And on Skypeland, we have Alex
[02:40.850 --> 02:42.070]  Alex, are you with us?
[02:42.590 --> 02:43.510]  You are muted
[02:46.670 --> 03:04.150]  Hi Rob, hopefully you can hear me I'm, uh, I'm, uh, I'm, uh, overseas Should possibly be a little bit elated to hear You, you are, uh, joining us from parts unknown And also joining us from other parts also unknown We have Emanuel and Kyle Are you guys there?
[03:08.900 --> 03:30.560]  Emanuel and Kyle Kyle and or Emanuel Uh, yes, hi, um, this Well, yeah, we're having a little bit of difficulty here Um, I don't know what that beep was But, uh, we are, uh, here In the Yukon Um, where they do have phone service But it's, it's, um, it's kind of a toss-up sometimes Um,
[03:30.980 --> 03:47.280]  I'm here with, um, Greg Newby Our friend who lives in, uh, Whitehorse Say hi, Greg Hi, everyone It's great to be here on Off The Hook What we're doing is we're connecting Through Starlink Which is, uh, Elon Musk's idea Uh, not that we do that tonight But that,
[03:47.330 --> 04:08.720]  uh, that's a good way to communicate And, you know, it works for the most part Right, Greg, you use Starlink all the time Yeah, it's really been remarkably reliable Since they put up some additional satellites About two months ago now To, uh, to handle the higher Inclination polar orbit So we ended up getting pretty good coverage We had started out in October With somewhat poor coverage Sometimes
[04:08.720 --> 04:29.140]  unusable networking And now it's actually quite solid We have these periodic short dropouts Which are mostly due to trees on the ground here Rather than being a problem with the satellite And otherwise it's rock solid And pretty good bandwidth And not even a bad price So you might experience some dropouts With us where we mysteriously disappear In the middle of a sentence Um,
[04:29.360 --> 04:47.420]  that's either us in deep thought Or, um, the, uh, peril of Starlink We will do our best Uh, I think since this is, uh, an Elon Musk thing Like, are you not allowed to say the word cisgender Over Starlink connections Or, um, I don't know how that works I I heard that,
[04:47.500 --> 05:03.400]  Rob You know, on our end I don't know, we wait till the end of the show And we'll be hearing that I think the people that use Are pretty happy that Elon Musk Has been so focused on Twitter That he hasn't had the opportunity To mess up Starlink He just And,
[05:03.560 --> 05:19.000]  you know, the space launches are happening That's SpaceX You know, is a, you know Space launch vehicle component Of the, uh, enterprise And those are just proceeding If you follow the SpaceX launches They're doing several launches per month And for the most part They're reusing the,
[05:19.040 --> 05:31.660]  uh, the main booster phase So they're actually, you know Not only efficient But they're, they're, um, uh, you know Being a little bit more sustainable As we approach But, you know, we actually have several ways That we could communicate tonight From here,
[05:32.300 --> 05:54.040]  uh, in the outskirts of Whitehorse Uh, in a house that is not on the grid at all Um, we have the Starlink system Uh, we also could use one of our cell phones Because Greg has a booster A signal booster That will allow our, our cell phones back to work But we have something else Which is really cool Called a radio telephone Can you describe how that works,
[05:54.120 --> 05:54.260]  Greg?
[05:54.460 --> 06:05.800]  Sure, I mean The thing that's magical about it Is it works just like a telephone We have E911 service on the phone We don't get caller ID And we don't have a lot of the caller features But I think that's just Northwest Hill Not choosing to package that,
[06:05.800 --> 06:20.460]  uh, stuff together But what happens is if you go outside our house There's a, uh, an antenna Looks a little bit like one of the old-style Television antennas And it's pointed towards the city of Whitehorse And so when we pick up our phone We press, uh,
[06:20.960 --> 06:42.840]  the green button To, uh, to pick up, uh, the, uh, phone signal And we get a dial tone And we dial and it connects Just like any, uh, normal phone So it's, uh, kind of neat Because it's not using wires Not copper, not fiber, not DOIC None of that stuff It's just using radio waves To communicate back to the mothership At the Northwest Hill office in Whitehorse That's very interesting Do we know
[06:42.840 --> 06:45.340]  what, uh, what, um Where this is on the spectrum?
[06:46.260 --> 06:56.200]  I knew you were going to ask that Me too, and I didn't look it up Let's see if I can find it now Greg's going to look that up To see if we can figure it out I'm sure by the time our show is over One of our listeners will have the answer for us But, yeah,
[06:56.280 --> 07:19.520]  it's a good question Where that is on the radio spectrum But it is fascinating to be able to use A radio telephone It just sounds so, so different Yeah, I'm seeing indications that, uh, Rob That it's, uh, often in the rural Radio telephone service The longer name for this Is in the 152 to 159 megahertz And 454 to 460 megahertz And,
[07:19.520 --> 07:26.520]  uh, someone could probably tell us Whether those are licensed areas of the spectrum or not I don't know Is that, is that United States or Canada or both?
[07:26.660 --> 07:43.060]  It'll be both Yeah, it'll be both For the most part, uh, this is from the SEC site That I'm looking at here, SEC.gov But for the most part, as we're so close The, uh, the licensed and unlicensed And utilization of the frequencies Are, are really exactly the same Between the US and Canada Now,
[07:43.100 --> 07:45.760]  I want to ask Is it very expensive to use a radio telephone?
[07:46.280 --> 08:04.460]  You would think so But, uh, but no It's about 60 bucks a month So it's about what you would pay for landlines Up here with, uh, with basic service And we have, of that, I think $15 a month Is for unlimited Canada to US calling So not that different than a typical landline I almost would prefer to have a radio telephone Than a cell phone I'm not sure I can get one in New York,
[08:04.580 --> 08:19.520]  though It does have pretty limited bandwidth You know, in those, uh, frequency ranges You're not getting a lot of, uh, capability Like, you could even use a modem, for example You're not getting a lot of capability To do, uh, you know, uh, data communication Than anything that requires fire damage Can you connect to Facebook on it?
[08:19.880 --> 08:35.480]  No, no, no No modem, no digital, uh, traffic at all I definitely want one now Because it'll, it'll Absolutely And, uh, listeners, uh, we will not be Doing off-the-hook overtime tonight So if you would like to get in touch with us Maybe, uh, to tell us,
[08:35.600 --> 08:52.100]  uh, your Your thoughts about something we're talking about live Um, we are keeping an eye on our On our social media So, uh, find us, Hacker Radio Show On Twitter, uh, off-the-hook At hackers.town on Mastodon Or send us an email O-T-H at 2600.com Can I just,
[08:52.240 --> 08:58.500]  um, point out People might be asking Why, uh, Kyle and Emmanuel In God's name Are you in the Yukon?
[08:58.900 --> 09:15.460]  And that's a very good question And I'll answer it Um, we came here To be part of a support team For Greg Because he was, um, uh, involved In a really, really exciting challenge In the state of Alaska Which is next door to the Yukon It's quite a drive,
[09:15.580 --> 09:31.400]  though It takes about seven hours to get there And by the way, we saw a grizzly bear Two grizzly bears on the way And, uh, and some moose That's the best story for another time Uh, he was, uh, running in something Known as the Denali 135 Uh, what that is,
[09:31.540 --> 09:55.260]  um, there's a highway In Alaska Called the Denali Highway It's not really a highway It's just, it's a road It's not really paved It's, it's, uh, gravel Um, and, uh, it goes for 135 miles And about 13 lunatics From around, around North America Um, decided over a 48-hour period To run the length of it 135 miles This is,
[09:55.400 --> 10:10.860]  uh, part of an annual challenge And Greg was one of those people And when you do something like that You need a support team And we happened to have an RV At our disposal So we had a place we could stay Uh, we had a place we could stock supplies And what we did was simply,
[10:10.860 --> 10:26.450]  um, uh, follow Greg And, and go five miles ahead of him Wait for him to catch up to us Give him what he needed At that period in time And then go on The next five or ten miles down the road And did that for almost a few days Hmm That's, uh, that's quite a,
[10:26.450 --> 10:36.920]  that's quite a journey And, uh, I, I, I won't describe what, uh, you and Kyle were doing As cheating in this race But, uh, you know, it, it, uh, I'm sure Greg appreciates the help Greg, uh, what got you interested in doing this?
[10:38.140 --> 10:52.760]  Oh, well, I've been a runner for a long time And I've done some marathons And even some of these hundred-mile ultra-marathons And so this was the next step beyond And because it wasn't too far from my house You know, within driving distance Not, uh, flying distance I signed up and,
[10:52.760 --> 11:05.620]  um, was really, uh, lucky to have Emmanuel and Kyle Willing to make the big journey to UConn And help me out with it So I think it was just a general interest But also, uh, keenly interested in, in this particular route You know, just a beautiful route And,
[11:05.640 --> 11:25.470]  uh, not that far away from where we are here in UConn And don't let Greg fool you Uh, he's quite the athlete And this was an amazing, uh, experience And crewing itself is, is sort of a thing With, uh, you know Being able to, uh, stay up and support somebody like this And we learned about and used a lot of different,
[11:25.700 --> 11:44.080]  uh, communications And geolocation tools To, uh, make sure that we were in touch While we were so far flung Um, we were even keeping in touch with, uh, people back here In Whitehorse to make sure they were updated If anything was going on And, uh, it was really,
[11:44.080 --> 12:07.680]  um, uh, uh, kind of a combination of being connected But also being totally away from any kind of connectivity Or cell phones or anything, um, as we go along the Denali Highway Yeah, there, there's no connectivity out there at all We're completely cut off from the world Yet we were able to communicate With people back home Perhaps Greg could explain how that works Yeah,
[12:07.860 --> 12:10.800]  this was using some pretty standard technology.
[12:10.970 --> 12:12.440]  A lot of outdoor people use.
[12:12.560 --> 12:15.260]  In fact, people doing skiing tend to use these.
[12:15.440 --> 12:20.280]  We had something called a Garmin InReach Mini, which is a two-way communication device.
[12:20.440 --> 12:21.660]  You connect it to your phone.
[12:21.760 --> 12:22.540]  Your phone has an app.
[12:22.700 --> 12:24.080]  It talks to this little device.
[12:24.280 --> 12:33.760]  And that, in turn, talks to the geosynchronous satellite of the Garmin cohort up there in the sky.
[12:33.760 --> 12:38.090]  And we're able to send and receive SMS messages over this thing, which is pretty cool.
[12:38.400 --> 12:41.590]  We can also do a GPS function.
[12:41.760 --> 12:47.020]  So we have a little map and that shows us where we are and how far we have to go and how fast we've been going and stuff like that.
[12:47.300 --> 12:49.180]  And furthermore, it has an SOS function.
[12:49.330 --> 12:55.900]  So if we ended up being in trouble, we could press the SOS button, which is not something that's easy to press by accident.
[12:56.020 --> 12:57.680]  You have to work a little bit at it.
[12:57.740 --> 13:03.710]  And that essentially alerts the first responder in whatever area you happen to be in.
[13:03.760 --> 13:06.540]  So it's a pretty handy little device to have.
[13:06.830 --> 13:12.320]  In addition to that, that was our two-way device, I had a spot tracker that I wore on my shoulder.
[13:12.580 --> 13:15.280]  And this was just a one-way GPS.
[13:15.620 --> 13:16.180]  No, no, I'm sorry.
[13:16.260 --> 13:16.680]  I take it back.
[13:16.780 --> 13:17.880]  It was actually two-way.
[13:17.960 --> 13:21.360]  But what it's doing there is it's communicating to the satellite just where you are.
[13:21.500 --> 13:28.660]  So it's not for SMS or anything, but it's just communicating up to the satellite where that little satellite transmitter is.
[13:28.660 --> 13:32.960]  And then that, in turn, feeds into a website that they use for all kinds of different sports.
[13:33.260 --> 13:42.580]  The one that we use for this one is the same website that they use for the Iditarod dog race, which is another pretty remote race that happened in the springtime in Alaska.
[13:42.580 --> 13:59.740]  So this two-way signal is a way that people sitting at home, like a wonderful wifey, Alana, could keep track of where we are and also know if maybe we stopped, if maybe we're getting passed by another team, you know, so sort of keep track of the race.
[13:59.900 --> 14:01.560]  That's only updated every 10 minutes.
[14:01.560 --> 14:06.280]  So it's not like watching a live, you know, Formula One race on TV where you know exactly where everyone is.
[14:06.280 --> 14:16.940]  It was really reassuring because she was able to know where both of us were independently and where we were in a relationship.
[14:17.260 --> 14:22.830]  And, of course, if we had an issue or needed something, we could alert her and vice versa.
[14:24.040 --> 14:32.460]  That combined with a walkie-talkie system where we were able to talk to Greg directly, it had a pretty good range as well.
[14:32.460 --> 14:41.420]  So we were never totally out of touch, but it was like nothing I'd ever been involved in as far as managing all of that stuff.
[14:41.580 --> 14:51.740]  And then letting your friend off that they're going to go for this run and kind of be a bit exposed and away from everything for a little bit.
[14:51.740 --> 15:00.470]  It really was a challenge and really quite a good endurance thing for us as well, I think.
[15:00.470 --> 15:02.090]  But Greg did so much out there.
[15:02.200 --> 15:03.120]  It was quite the experience.
[15:03.330 --> 15:09.420]  And we really were quite the little wired RV out there because we also had a satellite phone, an Iridium satellite phone.
[15:09.420 --> 15:15.440]  So if we had trouble and, for example, needed to call a tow truck, you don't want to be doing that negotiation by SMS, right?
[15:15.520 --> 15:17.640]  So we have a satellite phone that we didn't end up needing.
[15:17.970 --> 15:20.420]  We also, in the RV, had an inverter.
[15:20.420 --> 15:29.280]  So we could plug it into the 12-volt system, which were batteries, and those were recharged from the motor and get, I think it was, I can't remember now, maybe 50 watts.
[15:29.440 --> 15:31.680]  It wasn't a whole lot of watts, but we had enough power.
[15:31.830 --> 15:32.440]  Around 100.
[15:32.640 --> 15:33.590]  Yeah, maybe 100 watts.
[15:33.620 --> 15:34.580]  But the engine had power.
[15:35.120 --> 15:40.520]  Yeah, when the engine's running, right, to run our, you know, charger, not my, I wasn't running with a laptop.
[15:40.960 --> 15:42.360]  No, we had it in there.
[15:42.360 --> 15:43.640]  But yeah, to charge a laptop.
[15:43.920 --> 15:46.300]  And also, on top of this, we had the satellite radio.
[15:46.440 --> 15:47.860]  So we were really, you know...
[15:47.860 --> 15:51.780]  Yeah, I think we might have overdone it because at one point the battery died and couldn't start the RV.
[15:52.060 --> 15:55.360]  And we were there in the middle of nowhere and we had no idea what we were going to do.
[15:55.460 --> 15:57.320]  But eventually it just started.
[15:57.560 --> 15:58.700]  That's how things work out there.
[15:58.960 --> 16:07.500]  But just to give you a sense of what Greg accomplished here, the New York City Marathon, as most marathons, is 26.2 miles.
[16:08.020 --> 16:15.180]  What he ran is the equivalent of five marathons in a row without sleeping, although he did take a brief nap at one point.
[16:15.800 --> 16:17.460]  That is just simply incredible.
[16:17.590 --> 16:19.300]  I've never heard of anything like this before.
[16:19.520 --> 16:21.060]  And I hadn't seen it in my own eyes.
[16:21.160 --> 16:21.800]  I wouldn't have believed it.
[16:23.680 --> 16:24.500]  This is amazing.
[16:24.680 --> 16:26.860]  Alex, how are you doing out there?
[16:30.080 --> 16:30.920]  I'm very well.
[16:31.080 --> 16:32.590]  But I'm amazed, Greg.
[16:32.820 --> 16:33.320]  I mean, that's...
[16:33.320 --> 16:36.240]  I did the math while you guys were yapping.
[16:36.240 --> 16:38.560]  And it's 5.15 marathons.
[16:39.090 --> 16:39.970]  That's extraordinary.
[16:40.460 --> 16:41.320]  Congratulations, man.
[16:41.420 --> 16:42.380]  What an accomplishment.
[16:42.680 --> 16:44.260]  Have you ever done anything like this before?
[16:44.800 --> 16:45.500]  Well, thanks.
[16:45.660 --> 16:49.120]  Yeah, I've done something similar, which are 100-mile races.
[16:49.320 --> 16:51.060]  So a marathon is 26.2.
[16:51.140 --> 16:51.880]  That's pretty standard.
[16:52.020 --> 16:54.470]  You have people doing half marathons, 5K, 10K.
[16:55.020 --> 16:56.300]  A marathon is pretty standard.
[16:56.470 --> 16:58.300]  And then anything beyond that is an ultra.
[16:58.780 --> 17:02.440]  And so I've done the 50K ultra, which is about 32 miles.
[17:02.440 --> 17:06.260]  And I've done a 100K ultra, which is a little over 60 miles.
[17:06.620 --> 17:11.500]  But I've also done a number, just a small number, a handful of 100-mile races.
[17:11.500 --> 17:18.140]  So this is the first time I've run a race that was substantially beyond 100-mile at 135.
[17:18.640 --> 17:26.840]  And in practice, I can tell you that I did manage to run pretty well 100-plus miles, like a reasonable pace, but slowing down over time.
[17:26.840 --> 17:32.470]  And I did walk about probably that last fifth marathon was walking.
[17:32.640 --> 17:37.100]  And that was actually what a lot of the other runners on the course did as well.
[17:37.210 --> 17:40.360]  People tend to slow down because it's challenging.
[17:40.560 --> 17:41.960]  You need a fair amount of training.
[17:42.180 --> 17:46.470]  Obviously, you need to maintain nutrition, make sure you're hydrated, stuff like that on the course.
[17:47.160 --> 17:50.120]  But also, unless you're really a super champion, which I'm not.
[17:50.210 --> 17:52.000]  I'm not competitive in a sense.
[17:52.460 --> 17:55.660]  But unless you're one of these super champions, you're going to spend a fair amount.
[17:58.910 --> 18:01.310]  I mean, that's amazing to me.
[18:01.470 --> 18:02.450]  It really, really is.
[18:02.930 --> 18:05.530]  I used to run cross-country when I was younger.
[18:05.910 --> 18:10.670]  And we would do 15, 16 miles a day sometimes when we were training.
[18:11.070 --> 18:12.950]  And I felt like I was going to die.
[18:13.450 --> 18:17.390]  So I can't imagine 135 miles.
[18:17.570 --> 18:18.730]  It's really extraordinary.
[18:19.550 --> 18:24.930]  And I was going to say, I bet you the $2,600 RV would break down before you did.
[18:25.070 --> 18:26.890]  But you guys beat me to that story.
[18:30.170 --> 18:30.530]  Yeah.
[18:30.630 --> 18:33.350]  Meanwhile, I had to go to Manhattan from Queens this morning to run an errand.
[18:33.470 --> 18:34.630]  And I was exhausted at the end of that.
[18:34.890 --> 18:38.270]  I mean, I was just going to say, I did not run cross-country when I was younger.
[18:38.270 --> 18:39.930]  I run if something is chasing me.
[18:40.170 --> 18:41.090]  And that's pretty much it.
[18:41.090 --> 18:45.010]  But how long did this go?
[18:45.310 --> 18:46.490]  How long without sleeping?
[18:46.790 --> 18:47.690]  How long...
[18:47.690 --> 18:49.510]  I mean, a nap, but still.
[18:49.750 --> 18:51.550]  How long are we talking here?
[18:54.370 --> 18:56.030]  We lost our signal.
[18:57.330 --> 18:58.590]  We may have lost...
[18:58.590 --> 18:59.610]  Oh, we lost Canada.
[19:01.050 --> 19:04.590]  Very, very sad to inform you that we lost the Skype connection to Canada.
[19:04.790 --> 19:05.890]  But I think we'll be...
[19:05.890 --> 19:08.430]  I'm sure we'll be getting them back at some point soon.
[19:09.130 --> 19:11.850]  Meanwhile, Alex, you also are abroad.
[19:11.850 --> 19:12.810]  You're in parts unknown.
[19:13.130 --> 19:14.390]  How many marathons have you run?
[19:16.170 --> 19:19.610]  You know, I actually have not run officially any marathons.
[19:19.810 --> 19:20.590]  I never did it.
[19:20.650 --> 19:21.370]  I never did a marathon.
[19:21.830 --> 19:28.170]  In fact, we were not allowed to run marathons when I was a cross-country runner because it would screw up your training.
[19:28.370 --> 19:33.330]  It would make you really tired for a while and egrade your subsequent performance and things.
[19:33.330 --> 19:40.870]  So our coach actually forbids us from running a marathon, which I thought was kind of funny.
[19:41.530 --> 19:43.450]  But I am in parts unknown.
[19:43.530 --> 19:47.950]  And I am talking to you guys from the Chelsea Arts Club in London.
[19:48.970 --> 19:50.890]  And I've been here for a couple of days.
[19:51.050 --> 19:56.990]  I was here for the Chelsea Arts Club annual summer ball, which had a heaven and hell thing in this year.
[19:57.750 --> 19:58.690]  And that was on Saturday.
[19:58.890 --> 20:00.610]  It was an extraordinary amount of fun.
[20:01.390 --> 20:03.290]  And I'll be here for a couple more days.
[20:03.470 --> 20:17.330]  I've done the show, I guess, since the beginning of the year, since I started teaching at King's College in London, as, believe it or not, a law professor, I feel like I've done the show at least four times or so in the Chelsea Arts Club now.
[20:17.550 --> 20:21.870]  So it's great to do it again during the British summertime.
[20:22.150 --> 20:24.870]  That's much more favorable.
[20:25.250 --> 20:26.710]  Yeah, that leads into my question.
[20:26.770 --> 20:27.930]  And it looks like we've got Canada back.
[20:27.970 --> 20:28.650]  Are you guys with us?
[20:29.410 --> 20:30.230]  Yeah, we're here.
[20:30.390 --> 20:32.590]  I'm not sure how much you heard what we were saying.
[20:33.730 --> 20:34.130]  Nothing.
[20:34.350 --> 20:34.930]  We heard nothing.
[20:36.290 --> 20:37.790]  We've been listening to you guys for a couple minutes.
[20:39.230 --> 20:41.770]  Okay, well, yeah, so I'm going to give you another shot there.
[20:42.010 --> 20:48.990]  Because, yeah, we basically were telling people how this is an amazing part of the continent.
[20:49.990 --> 20:50.870]  Yukon, Alaska.
[20:51.550 --> 20:53.390]  Alaska is really a fascinating state.
[20:53.730 --> 20:57.410]  It's worth just exploring and meeting the people and all that.
[20:57.810 --> 21:03.890]  One thing that we do, Kyle and I, whenever we travel, we drop in on radio stations because we're fascinated by radio.
[21:03.890 --> 21:06.350]  Now, in Whitehorse, we've done that twice.
[21:06.350 --> 21:10.630]  We went over to CBC Whitehorse and met the people there.
[21:10.750 --> 21:13.230]  It's a really friendly operation.
[21:14.590 --> 21:16.750]  Not very many people, as you would expect.
[21:17.530 --> 21:21.990]  They're right in the middle of the city, as most CBC outlets are.
[21:22.410 --> 21:23.950]  And they were very interested.
[21:23.950 --> 21:28.910]  They know about WBAI and always like seeing fellow radio people.
[21:29.270 --> 21:30.950]  And then we also visited CHON.
[21:31.750 --> 21:34.890]  Now, CHON is a very interesting radio station in Whitehorse.
[21:35.010 --> 21:36.350]  It's at 98.1 FM.
[21:37.110 --> 21:39.730]  It's native run, native owned.
[21:40.030 --> 21:44.890]  And they focus on native issues throughout the course of the day.
[21:45.030 --> 21:45.790]  They're on 24 hours.
[21:45.790 --> 21:53.770]  And they have translator stations, a translator station being a lower power station at a different frequency that retransmits your signal.
[21:54.030 --> 21:59.370]  They have translators at the frequency of 90.5 all over Yukon.
[21:59.650 --> 22:08.090]  So basically, CHON is almost like a Yukon network that you can get virtually any place in this massive territory.
[22:08.090 --> 22:13.030]  And in fact, even on the highway, you see blue signs that list radio stations that are available.
[22:13.270 --> 22:15.010]  And CHON is always one of them.
[22:15.230 --> 22:17.170]  So it's just this incredible resource.
[22:17.430 --> 22:20.170]  And we dropped in on them the other day.
[22:20.370 --> 22:25.730]  And they have a really beautiful studio overlooking a river and the city.
[22:26.270 --> 22:31.010]  And this very spacious studios and so much potential, so many things going on.
[22:31.130 --> 22:35.710]  They're really trying to build things up and focus more on native issues.
[22:35.710 --> 22:39.870]  Right now, they play a lot of country music because apparently that's what people want to hear.
[22:40.110 --> 22:42.070]  And they have other programs as well.
[22:42.190 --> 22:45.090]  But they also play native music and focus on native issues.
[22:45.830 --> 22:58.910]  And then when we were in this fascinating place called Kalkitna in Alaska, it's this refuge of a village where people just walk around the streets and go to various shops.
[23:00.030 --> 23:03.550]  It's said to be the inspiration for Norden Exposure.
[23:03.550 --> 23:05.670]  I don't believe that, but that's what people say.
[23:06.890 --> 23:10.970]  They have a radio station, an NPR station there, KTNA.
[23:11.250 --> 23:12.430]  And we dropped in on them.
[23:12.490 --> 23:13.710]  They're in a little log cabin.
[23:14.070 --> 23:17.930]  They have this really interesting little studio there.
[23:18.990 --> 23:21.850]  Broadcast a lot of NPR material, but also local material.
[23:21.970 --> 23:24.210]  When we were there, there was a woman doing a show.
[23:24.470 --> 23:25.670]  What was the name of the show, Kyle?
[23:27.290 --> 23:28.190]  Music I Like.
[23:28.290 --> 23:29.510]  Music That Makes Me Happy.
[23:29.590 --> 23:30.610]  Yeah, Music That Makes Me Happy.
[23:30.610 --> 23:33.030]  It's a song that she likes and make her happy.
[23:33.330 --> 23:36.410]  Doesn't necessarily make other people happy, but it's what she wants to hear.
[23:36.630 --> 23:40.230]  And it's pretty awesome just to meet the various characters.
[23:40.690 --> 23:42.550]  We talked to the police director as well.
[23:43.870 --> 23:46.950]  And it's interesting to hear the challenges.
[23:47.150 --> 23:51.390]  They were having a challenge literally with trees getting in the way of their satellite signal.
[23:51.630 --> 23:56.310]  They were having trouble broadcasting NPR a program because there was tree growth in the way of the satellite.
[23:56.310 --> 23:58.550]  We were trying to help them figure out where the trees were.
[23:59.350 --> 24:05.290]  And also, we're kind of frustrated because in the past, they've aired democracy now.
[24:05.970 --> 24:11.490]  But there are a few conservative people in town that managed to put pressure on and get it taken off the air.
[24:11.490 --> 24:15.170]  So, these are the struggles that these radio stations have to deal with.
[24:15.510 --> 24:27.650]  But they all have similarities as far as being part of a community, wanting to provide something different, and just being open to all kinds of ideas being presented over the airwaves.
[24:29.290 --> 24:30.610]  That's really fascinating.
[24:32.450 --> 24:33.090]  Excuse me.
[24:35.190 --> 24:35.990]  So, what's...
[24:35.990 --> 24:45.610]  You know, one thing that's definitely, I think, on people's minds when they hear Canada right now is the wildfires that are ongoing and the air quality.
[24:45.790 --> 24:48.130]  Are you guys coming up against any of that where you are?
[24:49.490 --> 24:50.530]  Old news, Rob.
[24:50.610 --> 24:51.910]  We talked about this a month ago.
[24:52.030 --> 24:52.950]  Come on, get with it.
[24:55.130 --> 24:56.210]  It's still happening.
[24:57.550 --> 25:00.110]  It's still happening because you would never guess it out here.
[25:00.310 --> 25:01.470]  Out here in the U.S.
[25:03.770 --> 25:04.570]  It's pristine.
[25:05.090 --> 25:06.130]  The air is clean.
[25:06.590 --> 25:08.110]  In fact, it's always light.
[25:08.310 --> 25:10.610]  At midnight, it'll be bright outside.
[25:10.810 --> 25:11.650]  There's no night here.
[25:12.270 --> 25:13.390]  So, that's kind of weird.
[25:13.690 --> 25:19.410]  But right now, at least in this part of the country, there is no smoke, which is definitely a good thing.
[25:19.410 --> 25:23.410]  There's definitely the fire danger notices in full effect.
[25:23.670 --> 25:39.710]  And on the roadways and throughout our travels in Alaska, the notices indicating it was very high or a high likelihood of fire was a part of every road we went through.
[25:39.710 --> 25:43.210]  So, I mean, it's definitely warmer than average.
[25:43.670 --> 25:45.290]  Feels maybe a bit dry.
[25:45.530 --> 25:49.410]  But for the most part, no, we've been spared smoke.
[25:50.850 --> 25:51.750]  That's good to hear.
[25:52.490 --> 25:53.770]  We are not.
[25:53.910 --> 25:57.650]  I think the warnings are starting up again for us here in the New York area.
[25:57.870 --> 26:00.730]  And it's happening very significantly in the Midwest.
[26:00.730 --> 26:05.010]  I think Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois.
[26:06.230 --> 26:09.210]  You know, a few weeks ago, the worst air quality in the world was here in New York.
[26:09.210 --> 26:10.410]  Now it's in Chicago.
[26:12.270 --> 26:13.530]  Well, it's not a competition.
[26:14.950 --> 26:16.390]  I'm not hearing about...
[26:16.390 --> 26:19.570]  Well, it kind of is because I'm not hearing about American wildfires.
[26:19.710 --> 26:21.190]  Usually, that's what you hear about.
[26:22.130 --> 26:24.190]  And they're the ones that are spreading out of control.
[26:24.350 --> 26:27.110]  This year, it seems to be Canada getting all the attention.
[26:27.330 --> 26:29.770]  And where are the wildfires in America?
[26:30.030 --> 26:31.090]  I mean, I'm sure they're happening.
[26:32.890 --> 26:36.170]  Our fires, I think, in America are metaphorical at the moment, chiefly.
[26:38.410 --> 26:39.250]  But, moving on.
[26:39.370 --> 26:41.170]  I think it's all for a complete season.
[26:42.350 --> 26:44.390]  Okay, so we'll get eaten with Canada later.
[26:44.790 --> 26:49.170]  I don't mean to be flippant about this, but what else are you going to do at this particular point of time?
[26:49.310 --> 26:55.590]  Alex, in England, is there any kind of effect from wildfires now or in the past?
[26:57.170 --> 26:57.530]  No.
[26:57.830 --> 26:58.630]  No, not at all.
[26:58.790 --> 27:00.310]  We don't have any of that here.
[27:00.310 --> 27:09.050]  I think there's just a general level of pollution in London that, you know, that would excite all of us, really, right?
[27:09.330 --> 27:10.950]  It's, you know.
[27:11.290 --> 27:14.170]  Now, it's actually, it's been really quite nice here.
[27:14.550 --> 27:15.470]  Skies have been blue.
[27:15.630 --> 27:16.570]  It's barely rain.
[27:16.870 --> 27:24.190]  And even when I was flying in to London last week, it really struck me.
[27:24.190 --> 27:32.390]  I mean, usually, every time I fly into London, you're just struck as though how burnt and green the English countryside is.
[27:32.630 --> 27:39.530]  But I did notice that it was substantially more yellow and far less green this time.
[27:40.150 --> 27:44.070]  And there just hasn't been a lot of rain, which is a very weird thing.
[27:44.250 --> 27:46.850]  And it's been really hot here in London.
[27:46.850 --> 27:49.550]  So hot, I had to go and buy shorts.
[27:49.550 --> 27:55.170]  I mean, when I lived here in the 90s, it was, you know, the British summertime was a bit of a joke.
[27:55.530 --> 27:59.910]  You know, you really had to continue to wear a sweater and have a jacket around.
[28:00.270 --> 28:01.650]  It's just not like that anymore.
[28:01.650 --> 28:04.650]  I'm telling you, there is, there's something going on.
[28:04.790 --> 28:08.550]  And I think this type of extreme weather is really becoming the norm now.
[28:12.170 --> 28:13.410]  Well, very fascinating.
[28:15.550 --> 28:21.230]  And elsewhere in the Pan-Arctics, the impact of climate change are magnified.
[28:21.430 --> 28:25.630]  I think we read about this in the newspaper, Paramount, and you hear a lot about it from the old-timers.
[28:25.770 --> 28:40.290]  And even people that have just been living up north for five or ten years, for, you know, maybe ten or twenty years, they are able to remember much colder winters, much drier winters, much cooler summers as well.
[28:40.290 --> 28:55.230]  And now with the magnified increase of climate change, we see winters that aren't as cold, which makes them more snowy, which is what can lead to spring flooding, which has been another issue, because you get more snow and you end up with more water.
[28:55.490 --> 28:59.350]  And then in the summertime, you end up with temperatures here in the Yukon.
[28:59.530 --> 29:02.570]  Today, it's in the 80s, and that's just unusual.
[29:02.830 --> 29:09.810]  It's more typical in the Yukon that you are in the 60s and don't get out of the 70s or into the 70s too often.
[29:09.810 --> 29:16.170]  So seeing temperatures in the 80s and last summer, we actually hit a low 90s, is literally unprecedented.
[29:16.470 --> 29:18.930]  It's like it's out of human memory that this has happened previously.
[29:20.250 --> 29:20.730]  Yeah.
[29:20.910 --> 29:22.990]  Meanwhile, a listener informs us over Mastodon.
[29:23.450 --> 29:27.370]  Adam says, air quality in central Illinois is in the purple, unhealthy for everyone.
[29:27.570 --> 29:28.450]  Stay indoors if possible.
[29:29.090 --> 29:31.130]  They escaped the smoke until just yesterday.
[29:31.130 --> 29:43.150]  So, and it's also in the CBC News, there's an article here about Toronto, other end of Canada from where you are, but it's ranked the sixth worst in the world today.
[29:44.310 --> 29:45.810]  It's... scroll down a little bit.
[29:46.310 --> 29:47.030]  Thank you.
[29:47.650 --> 29:53.330]  Chicago, Detroit, Dubai, Delhi, Minneapolis, and Toronto.
[29:53.330 --> 29:55.350]  You know, after 6 p.m.
[29:55.490 --> 29:55.690]  tonight.
[29:57.010 --> 29:57.570]  So...
[29:57.570 --> 29:58.970]  Not a club to be in, really.
[29:59.130 --> 30:03.030]  That's, you know, the air quality club is one that you'd like to be far away.
[30:03.770 --> 30:04.170]  Absolutely.
[30:05.170 --> 30:09.990]  Speaking of Canada and CBC, I've got a CBC story here, which might be of interest.
[30:10.670 --> 30:16.550]  Headline, Canadians will no longer have access to news content on Facebook and Instagram.
[30:16.550 --> 30:17.730]  That's right.
[30:17.910 --> 30:24.890]  Social media giant Meta has confirmed it will end access to news on social media sites for all Canadian users.
[30:25.350 --> 30:30.090]  And that's because of something known as Bill C18, the Online News Act.
[30:30.790 --> 30:40.430]  Now, basically, that law will force tech giants like Meta and Google to pay news outlets for posting their journalism on their platforms.
[30:40.950 --> 30:46.050]  So, rather than do that, Meta is going to block news for Canadian users.
[30:46.550 --> 30:53.870]  Over the next few months, and I don't know what Google is going to do, but it's interesting to see that kind of a reaction.
[30:53.990 --> 31:01.590]  But when you think about it, they basically use that content, and don't pay a penny for it, and make a mint from it.
[31:02.410 --> 31:06.890]  Yeah, what fascinates me about this story is, how does Meta define news?
[31:07.330 --> 31:19.830]  I mean, everything is news on social media, up to, you know, my little Billy is graduating this month, or, you know, it's Granny's 97th birthday, or, you know, something's going on in the world regarding geopolitics.
[31:20.750 --> 31:32.730]  And are they going to block just professional news outlets that would like to be paid for their content, or is news in general just verboten, and how do we figure out what that line is?
[31:34.930 --> 31:37.510]  Well, I guess that's up to them to decide how to define it.
[31:37.510 --> 31:46.790]  I would imagine we're looking at newspaper websites and other news agencies as opposed to blogs and personal websites.
[31:47.710 --> 31:52.110]  Justin Trudeau is calling this bullying, bullying tactics from Meta.
[31:52.410 --> 32:02.130]  He says the fact that these internet giants would rather cut off Canadians' access to local news than pay their fair share is a real problem, and now they're resorting to bullying tactics to try and get their way.
[32:02.270 --> 32:03.150]  It's not going to work.
[32:04.090 --> 32:12.150]  Of course, people can always just go to the website themselves and leave Facebook out of it, and just use Facebook to spread gossip and hatred, and that's what it's for.
[32:12.450 --> 32:13.230]  Well, that's the thing.
[32:13.350 --> 32:32.350]  If the news, if the legitimate news outlet, you know, professional news outlet, so places like BBC or Pronto, Star, things like that, or it's not just US-based, it could be CNN, you know, if all of these are off, then the ones that aren't considered to be professional news outlets will be allowed.
[32:32.350 --> 32:37.950]  So it's really to proliferate, and that's likely to, I would think, tend towards greater disinformation.
[32:38.390 --> 32:41.550]  Yeah, and mimic news sites in that way.
[32:42.150 --> 32:47.670]  Well, I mean, you have to ask Meta, well, how can you consider this to be news but not that?
[32:47.910 --> 32:51.630]  You know, you should be cutting that site off as well because it's in your definition of news.
[32:52.370 --> 32:53.150]  Interesting times.
[32:53.330 --> 32:55.510]  Alex, do you have a legal perspective on this?
[32:56.970 --> 33:01.070]  Yeah, I think this is a really fascinating development, too.
[33:01.170 --> 33:21.250]  And I think that the reaction of the tech companies, the big platforms, and how they deal with these types of potential new fees, essentially, for this local content, is going to define how we use and view the Internet for possibly decades to come.
[33:21.630 --> 33:30.710]  Because if they just pull out of these local areas and decide not to pay the fees, well, that's not great.
[33:30.870 --> 33:47.850]  I mean, the point of this is that we think that by driving eyeballs with local content to the platforms and generating data, data that's been used and sold and packaged and repackaged and compiled other data for advertising purposes, the tech platforms are benefiting.
[33:48.070 --> 33:49.970]  So they should pay for that type of benefit.
[33:50.070 --> 33:51.290]  I mean, that's the argument here.
[33:53.070 --> 34:06.710]  But if they just decide to pull out entirely from all of these markets that have established these types of rules, that's going to be really problematic in terms of people accessing this type of local content.
[34:06.710 --> 34:18.650]  And the platforms themselves have argued that there is a benefit to these local providers and papers and journalists because their content is included on these platforms.
[34:18.650 --> 34:22.650]  It has a much wider reach, and that generates eyeballs for them.
[34:22.730 --> 34:33.410]  And maybe there is some component of that, but I do think that there is a, in my personal opinion, is that there is a disproportionate benefit to the tech platforms.
[34:33.410 --> 34:46.970]  Now, what will really make the difference here is if a jurisdiction like New York or California or the United Kingdom, let's say, where I am right now, passes a very similar law.
[34:47.250 --> 34:58.570]  Because I think right now when we're talking about Canadian content and things, it's a very small percentage of their annual revenue or any revenue stream whatsoever.
[34:59.490 --> 35:13.750]  If these larger jurisdictions are passing very similar laws and Facebook and these other platforms just decide to pull out, well, then they're cutting off their nose to spite their face, so to speak.
[35:14.490 --> 35:21.470]  I think we need others to join in and demand this type of revenue, and that will cut into the profits of these tech companies.
[35:21.470 --> 35:26.090]  But I think it will distribute money in a fairer and more equitable way.
[35:27.690 --> 35:39.550]  I wanted to bring a story, and I just did a quick check to confirm that Australia had a similar activity in 2021, and the government backed down in Australia from Facebook and Google.
[35:39.810 --> 35:48.450]  But the exact same thing, and here in Canada, looks like almost the exact story, which is the government says the big tech has to pay.
[35:48.810 --> 35:52.630]  And in this case, the law actually got passed.
[35:52.670 --> 35:54.830]  And now we're in the fallout, what does it mean, period.
[35:55.130 --> 36:13.070]  In Australia, the law got passed, and then more or less backed off from, for that case, Google said, okay, the government said, Australia said, oh, just kidding, Google said, okay, we'll continue to put in some clauses in the law that said if charges were to be reenacted,
[36:13.190 --> 36:17.250]  then you'd have to give a fair notice so we can threaten you some more, I guess.
[36:17.870 --> 36:19.590]  We can go back to negotiating the table.
[36:19.830 --> 36:27.330]  So I was reminded, and I confirmed, that it was February 2021 that the same story occurred in Australia with a different outcome.
[36:28.150 --> 36:30.430]  Well, this is definitely going to be something to keep an eye on.
[36:30.850 --> 36:43.830]  In a media statement, the Canadian Radio, Television, and Telecommunications Commission, which is tasked with overseeing the Online News Act, said it will soon share its plan for implementation and, quote, set up the framework for mandatory bargaining between these parties.
[36:45.070 --> 36:49.850]  So it remains to be seen exactly what the plan is here for enforcing this.
[36:49.970 --> 36:50.410]  So wait a minute.
[36:50.410 --> 36:51.110]  I have a question.
[36:51.310 --> 36:51.570]  Yes.
[36:51.690 --> 36:55.430]  So they're saying payment for posting links is what we're talking about.
[36:55.850 --> 36:56.530]  It seems so.
[36:56.530 --> 36:58.050]  So I saw this interesting story.
[36:58.630 --> 36:59.970]  I want to share it with you.
[37:00.230 --> 37:00.830]  Here you go.
[37:01.430 --> 37:02.250]  Here's a question.
[37:02.530 --> 37:02.790]  Yes.
[37:02.910 --> 37:11.830]  If we're talking about anything that lands at a newspaper, so I don't know the Toronto Sun-Times, which I know is not really a thing, but I'm inventing.
[37:13.210 --> 37:26.590]  You live in Toronto, or your family lives in Toronto, and you have a death in your family, and you want to link the people you know to your family member's obituary in the Toronto Sun-Times.
[37:26.590 --> 37:29.990]  Is that no longer allowed under C-18?
[37:31.630 --> 37:33.410]  Very interesting question.
[37:33.650 --> 37:35.370]  And I guess we'll find out.
[37:37.350 --> 37:38.010]  Alex?
[37:38.590 --> 37:41.350]  Well, I think it would be allowed.
[37:41.730 --> 37:48.690]  I just think that it might be something that the platform would have to pay for.
[37:48.690 --> 37:59.330]  I think one of the objections from some of the tech platforms with respect to this particular proposal was that it should be charging for news content as opposed to links.
[38:00.310 --> 38:06.750]  And that's an interesting argument, but I think that inevitably, when you're linking to something, you're also providing a little bit of content.
[38:08.070 --> 38:10.630]  Nobody sees just bare URLs anymore.
[38:10.630 --> 38:12.770]  That just doesn't happen.
[38:12.950 --> 38:18.170]  There's always a bit of a preview, and maybe an image or something like that.
[38:18.370 --> 38:22.270]  And so, yeah, these platforms are pulling down some content.
[38:22.570 --> 38:24.790]  But, yeah, that's...
[38:25.610 --> 38:27.290]  It's just a very weird time.
[38:27.430 --> 38:32.330]  And, Greg, I think you brought up a really great point, too, by the way, with regard to the Australian law.
[38:32.370 --> 38:38.610]  And I think that would have cost a tech platform something into the tune of 200 million a year, if I recall correctly.
[38:38.610 --> 38:40.750]  And so it's not...
[38:40.750 --> 38:44.070]  It's not an insubstantial amount of money, either.
[38:44.470 --> 38:48.070]  But it's a different distribution of these particular funds.
[38:48.390 --> 38:54.410]  And if the jurisdictions just back down, these types of laws will have no effect.
[38:57.250 --> 39:06.940]  Greg, I'm asking now the communications teams at Google and Facebook hastily putting together talking points around the type of thing that Gila mentioned.
[39:07.110 --> 39:08.360]  It's like, oh, what about sharing?
[39:09.040 --> 39:12.130]  Oh, what about sharing local soccer club news?
[39:12.400 --> 39:17.690]  And, oh, what about the fact that maybe you can't get that news in this part of the country or this part of the world?
[39:17.780 --> 39:25.860]  Aren't we doing a service by channeling not just the headline or the URL, but also the blurb and the photos from the story?
[39:26.110 --> 39:28.170]  So, and those are legitimate points.
[39:28.320 --> 39:30.380]  I mean, I think there's value in having that shared.
[39:30.520 --> 39:34.300]  And at the same time, there's clearly a lot of voices.
[39:34.300 --> 39:43.440]  Well, there's also a reason to compensate companies that are, you know, that are paying salaries and writing these articles to do that.
[39:43.710 --> 39:48.960]  But anyway, and the story, though, is that during the negotiation phase, Australia government backed out, backed down.
[39:49.150 --> 39:51.840]  So it'll be really interesting to hear what happens here in Canada.
[39:51.840 --> 39:54.670]  I think we're talking about two different things, though, because it's...
[39:54.670 --> 40:01.960]  If you go to Facebook to get news, that's radically different than somebody on Facebook saying, look at this story.
[40:02.230 --> 40:11.210]  You know, because that legitimizes Facebook as a source of news, using the work of the New York Times or the Washington Post to do that.
[40:11.780 --> 40:20.540]  And by the same token, then they can add other less reputable news items and put them side by side and make them seem legitimate as well.
[40:20.540 --> 40:36.800]  So there is more involved when the purpose or the result is for Facebook to be seen as a source of news itself, as opposed to just a place where people are talking about what's going on.
[40:37.720 --> 40:58.900]  Yeah, and I think even more so if Facebook actually had like a news division and was providing some kind of news or reporting function themselves and then curating or offering or editing the available articles from other sources within whatever kind of news product they were actually trying to provide.
[40:59.170 --> 41:10.710]  But they don't really have a staff department that is parallel in reputation and integrity as like some of these outlets.
[41:11.050 --> 41:26.550]  So them being the arbiter of it is dangerous in that whomever is there whatever entities are there are going to be what the users of that platform are exposed to.
[41:26.820 --> 41:49.780]  So if you take away these state institutions and respectable news organizations like was said I think by Greg the other sort of clickbait will fall in and fill up that space vice versa you take out all the alternatives you have sort of only one or two news sources or just Facebook news telling you everything.
[41:52.000 --> 42:06.540]  Yeah and yes Alex I want to bounce off what Kyle just said and also I think an important point that Greg brought up too which is that there is a benefit to both parties here.
[42:06.820 --> 42:37.420]  There's a benefit to the local news organizations that I also mentioned that they're getting links promoted on these platforms and then there's a benefit to social media platforms who's sharing these links who's looking at them who's clicking on these stories all this generates data but as the system stands currently the entire benefit of the data that's generated and the money that's made
[42:37.420 --> 42:52.900]  essentially from the social media platforms promoting this type of local content is going to the social media platforms and the vast majority of it is there's some I guess monetized data that could come from these social
[42:56.630 --> 43:10.050]  I see this as the platforms having to strike a different bargain for certain types of local access.
[43:10.540 --> 43:17.610]  And if we think about the idea of local content, it's really, really important to communities.
[43:17.610 --> 43:26.500]  And there isn't a lot of local content in places like East Africa or West Africa or even parts of Canada and things.
[43:26.860 --> 43:39.250]  And these social media platforms should be sharing, I think, a portion of this money that they're generating on their platforms from this particular content.
[43:39.480 --> 43:44.730]  So this is not striking a fairer bargain to me than anything else.
[43:44.730 --> 43:50.980]  And it's not about, well, there's some incidental or ancillary benefit to these guys.
[43:52.000 --> 43:56.360]  It's about the money itself over the long term and what's fair.
[43:56.360 --> 44:07.420]  And I see there being a very strong reason for governments and local governments and state governments to really hold on and push this issue.
[44:07.420 --> 44:15.380]  because I think we're going to see this 10 years from now as a matter of fundamental fairness.
[44:16.940 --> 44:17.460]  Indeed.
[44:17.710 --> 44:34.000]  And that's not even accounting for the when you post a news link to social media, you get the social media engagement, you get that comment thread, you get those comment pages where tons and tons of people can all be terrible to each other over whatever the news article is about.
[44:34.700 --> 44:36.800]  And that I think is a large problem.
[44:36.960 --> 44:41.960]  I'm guessing is a large significant part of the social media engagement in general.
[44:42.230 --> 44:44.160]  But we'll have to keep an eye on this.
[44:44.250 --> 44:50.300]  But I did want to get to this other story before we run out of time, which is a fun pair of stories, actually.
[44:50.300 --> 44:57.210]  One of them on ABC7 News, Bonnaroo crowds accidentally trigger 911 calls through the iPhone's new safety feature.
[44:57.750 --> 45:11.100]  And this is this is very entertaining because the new the new iPhones have a safety feature, which is supposed to detect such movements and jarring experiences as when you've been in a car crash.
[45:11.300 --> 45:13.520]  There are motion sensors in the phone.
[45:13.660 --> 45:20.820]  And if the phone thinks you've just been in a car that has crashed, it will automatically call the emergency number for you, 9-1-1 here in the United States.
[45:21.680 --> 45:37.020]  At the Bonnaroo Music and Arts Festival in Tennessee, the local 9-1-1 switchboards were getting flooded with fake calls because people rocking out to the Bonnaroo music were setting off the car crash detection feature in their new iPhones.
[45:37.440 --> 45:43.280]  It got it got to the point where Bonnaroo themselves had to tweet, heads up Bonnaroovians, let's work as a team to resolve this.
[45:43.280 --> 45:48.230]  You can take action by going to settings, emergency SOS and deactivating the crash feature.
[45:49.700 --> 46:00.640]  So, yes, this this this feature, which apparently a lot of people didn't know about, let alone know that they that they should be disabling it when they go to to a rock concert.
[46:01.300 --> 46:06.840]  This is this is I'm sorry, they say that on stage in the middle of the show.
[46:07.060 --> 46:09.180]  OK, everybody go to settings and scroll down.
[46:10.060 --> 46:11.540]  And if so, I want to hear that.
[46:12.060 --> 46:13.180]  Yeah, you know what that is?
[46:13.180 --> 46:15.180]  That's the modern equivalent to the brown acid announcement.
[46:16.960 --> 46:18.340]  That's exactly what it is.
[46:19.250 --> 46:19.880]  I'm serious.
[46:21.040 --> 46:27.060]  This is actually a replay of a story that was a winter story where spears were having the same exact problem.
[46:27.180 --> 46:33.080]  They were going downhill and doing mobile and stuff like that and they were setting off the alert in their iPhone.
[46:34.880 --> 46:35.700]  Does it crash?
[46:36.730 --> 46:37.230]  Mm hmm.
[46:37.540 --> 46:37.780]  Yes.
[46:38.660 --> 46:45.210]  So the moral of the story is if you're going to get into the mosh pit, turn off crash indicator on your phone first.
[46:46.320 --> 46:48.210]  They go in a mosh pit safety first.
[46:48.380 --> 46:49.840]  That's what's on everyone's mind.
[46:49.900 --> 46:54.900]  At least don't take your phone or at least if you're not, if you're going to take your phone, turn off the crash indicator.
[46:55.210 --> 46:57.540]  But that does dovetail nicely with another new story.
[46:57.640 --> 46:57.980]  Does it not?
[46:57.980 --> 46:59.100]  It does indeed.
[46:59.280 --> 47:08.460]  There was another story this one on Ars Technica last week about Android's emergency call shortcut, which is also flooding dispatchers with false calls.
[47:08.580 --> 47:13.060]  So your Android users, you know, make fun of the iPhone users, but it's happening to you too.
[47:13.320 --> 47:13.560]  Exactly.
[47:13.660 --> 47:15.040]  It's happening in the UK right now.
[47:15.280 --> 47:30.680]  So, Emmanuel, we have to congratulate you for being ahead of the curve because this happened to you a couple months ago and now it's happening widely in the UK because as you found out, if you hit the power button on your Android phone five times in a row,
[47:30.860 --> 47:33.710]  your phone will automatically call emergency services.
[47:34.920 --> 47:41.140]  So apparently 999 in the UK is being completely overrun with pocket dials that people don't know they're making.
[47:41.300 --> 47:50.540]  According to the BBC, one department received 169 silent 999 calls between midnight and 7pm on one Sunday alone.
[47:51.580 --> 47:53.540]  Google says it's working on a fix.
[47:53.540 --> 47:56.980]  Yeah, this is an Android 12, the latest version of the OS.
[47:57.800 --> 48:02.300]  I was pranking the police months before this happened, unintentionally.
[48:02.660 --> 48:16.100]  And it all started because I was trying to play a YouTube video for somebody in a bar and I wanted to turn down the volume and I thought I was hitting the volume down button, but instead I was hitting the button below that and hitting that five times summons the police.
[48:16.250 --> 48:17.660]  I didn't know, but I found out.
[48:18.660 --> 48:20.480]  Do you have time for one more quick story?
[48:20.480 --> 48:21.360]  We do.
[48:22.060 --> 48:26.750]  Okay, this is something that really struck... got my attention.
[48:27.020 --> 48:33.620]  The city of Fort Worth has said it's been targeted by a group of hackers because of the state's stance on gender-affirming care.
[48:34.180 --> 48:41.680]  City officials say the hackers stole information from a website used to track city work orders, but no sensitive information has been released.
[48:42.120 --> 48:47.320]  They say the city of Fort Worth has confirmed that the posted information did originate from our computer systems.
[48:47.460 --> 48:51.160]  However, the data came from a website that our workers used to manage their maintenance activities.
[48:51.810 --> 48:56.520]  They believe the hackers stole credentials to log into the website used by workers.
[48:58.420 --> 49:02.920]  Now, basically, the city of Fort Worth believes a group...
[49:02.920 --> 49:05.210]  Siege SEC is behind the attack.
[49:05.540 --> 49:11.460]  The group posted the information to Telegram and Twitter, and Fort Worth said the post indicated...
[49:11.460 --> 49:18.780]  The post that was announcing the hack indicated they believe the information was posted in an attempt to embarrass the city.
[49:19.140 --> 49:22.440]  What it said was, we have decided to make a message toward the U.S.
[49:22.560 --> 49:22.840]  government.
[49:22.840 --> 49:26.800]  Texas happens to be one of the largest states banning gender-affirming care.
[49:27.060 --> 49:30.210]  And for that, we have made Texas a target, the post said.
[49:30.640 --> 49:33.320]  And you know, I say all power to them.
[49:33.460 --> 49:41.500]  You know, when you consider all that Texas has done to hurt people, this does not hurt them nearly as much.
[49:41.640 --> 49:42.840]  And it certainly sends a statement.
[49:43.000 --> 49:48.200]  Compare this to what happened in Dallas several months earlier, where there was ransomware and all kinds of things were frozen.
[49:48.360 --> 49:49.120]  It was all about money.
[49:49.320 --> 49:50.680]  This is about sending a message.
[49:50.680 --> 49:52.440]  This is about getting attention.
[49:52.980 --> 49:54.700]  And yeah, maybe it was inconvenient.
[49:54.900 --> 49:55.710]  Maybe it was embarrassing.
[49:56.080 --> 49:57.820]  Maybe Fort Worth was even the best target.
[49:58.200 --> 49:59.600]  But we're talking about it.
[49:59.680 --> 50:00.680]  And it got out there.
[50:01.000 --> 50:03.710]  And this is kind of like a war.
[50:03.960 --> 50:06.160]  You know, we have to get the message out one way or another.
[50:06.540 --> 50:18.620]  And the things that states like Florida and Texas are doing to the trans community and to all kinds of people, it's not getting enough attention in the media.
[50:19.060 --> 50:21.320]  So we need to go to websites.
[50:21.320 --> 50:25.680]  We need to go to hacktivist type actions.
[50:25.750 --> 50:27.320]  We need to do whatever we can.
[50:27.360 --> 50:29.230]  And we need to support each other when it happens.
[50:30.160 --> 50:31.420]  We absolutely do.
[50:31.560 --> 50:40.080]  This is an unprecedented time in human history for new threats to members of the LGBTQIA plus community.
[50:40.420 --> 50:42.000]  And this is Pride Month.
[50:42.160 --> 50:45.920]  So, yeah, pay attention, speak up, and do whatever you can.
[50:46.060 --> 50:51.180]  And we will have to leave it there because we are just about out of time.
[50:51.180 --> 50:55.420]  But do send us email, OTH at 2600.com.
[50:55.860 --> 50:59.600]  Find us on Twitter at Hacker Radio Show for as long as that keeps being a thing.
[50:59.860 --> 51:04.040]  Find us on Mastodon, off the hook at hackers.town.
[51:04.500 --> 51:07.640]  And take care of those close to you.
[51:08.080 --> 51:09.540]  And have a very good week.
[51:10.300 --> 51:15.140]  Thanks again to Greg Newby and our panel from parts all over the place.
[51:16.320 --> 51:17.320]  Thanks to everyone.
[51:17.800 --> 51:20.120]  Everyone have a very good week.
[51:21.460 --> 51:22.140]  Bye.
[51:33.600 --> 51:35.580]  And happy birthday, Mr. Kaminsky.
[52:12.190 --> 52:13.210]  Thanks
[53:03.720 --> 53:04.120]  go.
[53:15.780 --> 53:17.180]  Bye.
[53:17.180 --> 53:29.260]  Thanks go.
[53:30.400 --> 53:31.100]  Time
[53:36.100 --> 53:39.260]  Talk While
[54:10.120 --> 54:11.380]  We'll burn in.
[54:12.300 --> 54:13.620]  We'll burn in.
[54:13.620 --> 54:13.840]  We'll burn in.
[54:14.120 --> 54:14.920]  Nightmares are on.
[54:25.940 --> 54:26.880]  Watch out!