[00:00.000 --> 00:03.560]  ...5-5-0 or go to give to WBAI.org online.
[00:03.760 --> 00:07.900]  Give to the number 2, WBAI.org online.
[00:08.360 --> 00:10.380]  All right, it is now 7 p.m.
[00:10.560 --> 00:12.160]  Stay tuned for Off The Hook.
[00:12.600 --> 00:13.380]  Coming up.
[00:34.190 --> 00:36.750]  The number you are calling does not exist.
[00:37.610 --> 00:38.070]  Please.
[00:38.290 --> 00:39.910]  Take the number you have started.
[00:40.550 --> 00:42.650]  Or come start to the directory inquiring.
[00:44.530 --> 00:45.550]  We're sorry.
[00:45.850 --> 00:51.870]  The number you have reached, 99.5 WBAI, is now Off The Hook.
[00:57.620 --> 01:02.140]  The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[01:03.040 --> 01:07.600]  I cut myself off shaving, now I can't make a call.
[01:08.280 --> 01:10.390]  We couldn't get much worse.
[01:16.520 --> 01:19.420]  I hope that's understood when we need more.
[02:38.780 --> 02:40.780]  And a very good evening to everybody.
[02:40.860 --> 02:43.040]  The program is Off The Hook.
[02:43.380 --> 02:47.100]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you, joined tonight by Kyle.
[02:47.480 --> 02:47.980]  You are.
[02:48.380 --> 02:49.240]  I am what?
[02:49.520 --> 02:50.320]  Joined by Kyle.
[02:50.460 --> 02:51.380]  Oh, okay, yes, I am.
[02:51.800 --> 02:52.460]  Rob T.
[02:52.560 --> 02:52.900]  Firefly?
[02:53.640 --> 02:54.500]  Good evening.
[02:54.900 --> 02:56.200]  I'm sorry, out in Skype land.
[02:56.740 --> 02:57.240]  Gila?
[02:57.860 --> 02:58.380]  Hello.
[02:59.120 --> 03:00.620]  And, of course, Alex.
[03:01.600 --> 03:02.160]  It is I.
[03:02.420 --> 03:02.820]  Good evening.
[03:03.720 --> 03:04.240]  Wow.
[03:04.500 --> 03:11.380]  You know, you'll have to bear with Kyle and myself tonight, because we went and we got vaccinated yesterday.
[03:12.480 --> 03:16.440]  In fact, I got vaccinated for three different things at the same time.
[03:16.540 --> 03:17.520]  I've never done that before.
[03:17.740 --> 03:19.960]  It was like the grand slam of vaccines.
[03:21.060 --> 03:25.920]  And, you know, my arm didn't hurt last night, but today, boy, does it ever hurt.
[03:26.060 --> 03:26.800]  But it's worth it.
[03:26.860 --> 03:33.760]  You know, it's the kind of pain that, I don't know, makes you somehow feel like you're tackling something important.
[03:33.760 --> 03:34.440]  Right, Kyle?
[03:35.460 --> 03:35.880]  Yeah.
[03:36.120 --> 03:41.360]  And you just, you have to remember that you're sore, because it can surprise you.
[03:42.020 --> 03:42.440]  Yeah.
[03:42.600 --> 03:43.700]  I don't know what that means, but yeah.
[03:43.700 --> 03:49.120]  Well, if you, you know, lean on it or brush against something, it could be really painful.
[03:49.120 --> 03:49.440]  Oh, absolutely.
[03:49.620 --> 03:50.020]  Painful.
[03:50.180 --> 03:51.960]  Yes, for at least the next day or so.
[03:52.040 --> 03:53.420]  So we might be a little terse.
[03:54.000 --> 03:59.140]  We might occasionally cry out in pain if we brush up against something.
[03:59.480 --> 04:02.400]  But let me just take this moment to encourage everybody listening.
[04:02.400 --> 04:06.880]  Please don't forget this year to get your vaccines against flu, against COVID.
[04:06.880 --> 04:10.860]  I also got a vaccine against shingles, because apparently that's bad.
[04:11.020 --> 04:12.820]  And I thought that was, that was a nice thing to have.
[04:12.920 --> 04:14.340]  But it sounds comforting, but it's not.
[04:14.460 --> 04:14.800]  It's bad.
[04:14.980 --> 04:19.220]  I know people really suffer under things like that.
[04:20.220 --> 04:21.080]  And it's easy.
[04:21.220 --> 04:21.740]  It's easy.
[04:21.960 --> 04:22.640]  They're plentiful.
[04:23.540 --> 04:29.900]  And please don't listen to the people who don't believe in science.
[04:30.780 --> 04:31.520]  Yes, Gila?
[04:31.860 --> 04:36.760]  As long as we're giving out PSAs about vaccines, I learned something very important.
[04:36.880 --> 04:50.900]  This year, which is that if you are a person who weighs over 200 pounds, it is the recommendation of the Centers for Disease Control that you get vaccinated with longer needles so that the drugs have a better chance of getting where they're going.
[04:52.180 --> 04:52.700]  Wow.
[04:53.040 --> 04:54.580]  I've never heard that before.
[04:54.880 --> 04:56.020]  I hadn't either.
[04:57.080 --> 04:58.660]  But I found that out this year.
[04:58.800 --> 05:00.000]  It's extremely helpful.
[05:00.560 --> 05:06.320]  And for what it's worth, having been vaccinated with the longer needle this year, I didn't get a bump.
[05:07.000 --> 05:07.580]  Really?
[05:07.940 --> 05:08.220]  Okay.
[05:08.480 --> 05:08.880]  All right.
[05:09.300 --> 05:09.880]  Wow.
[05:10.080 --> 05:12.120]  But it hurt pretty good, I would imagine.
[05:13.920 --> 05:16.660]  I will mention that it really...
[05:17.420 --> 05:22.900]  The vaccines we got to last Thursday night and kind of kicked my tail.
[05:25.300 --> 05:37.540]  Well, I ran a spike to fever on Friday, and I don't know if it was because of the flu shot or the COVID shot, but feeling pretty crummy for about 24 hours, but looking forward to a smooth sailing flu season this year.
[05:37.780 --> 05:37.900]  Right.
[05:38.060 --> 05:45.840]  Well, the important thing is, if anything happens to us in the future, the naysayers will blame it on the vaccine because you're supposed to be immortal if you don't get the vaccine.
[05:46.160 --> 05:47.020]  It's really silly.
[05:47.020 --> 05:56.640]  And folks, you know, we don't work for the government, you know, just because we happen to be saying the same thing as far as, yes, science gets it right, doesn't mean that we're in anybody's pocket.
[05:56.860 --> 05:59.280]  We think for ourselves and we encourage you to do the same.
[05:59.280 --> 06:09.620]  But please, please, base it on facts and reality and not just people who keep spouting, I did my own research and reached the conclusion that I had when I started.
[06:10.520 --> 06:13.260]  That really doesn't accomplish anything.
[06:13.460 --> 06:33.840]  And, you know, it's been a rough last couple of weeks, as we all know, and never before has it been more important to check your sources and to know when you're being lied to or when somebody does not have all the information and perhaps might be jumping the gun about certain things.
[06:34.220 --> 06:42.540]  And also, you know, it's important not to close your eyes to what's happening right in front of them because a lot of bad things are happening out there right now.
[06:43.260 --> 06:46.660]  We may feel powerless that we can't do anything about it.
[06:47.860 --> 06:53.060]  But just talking about it helps and being aware also helps.
[06:53.060 --> 06:57.320]  And, you know, I guess this leads me into something that's a little bit uncomfortable.
[06:57.740 --> 07:08.600]  And Rob, I'm going to talk to you about this because you're more or less in this room, this virtual room, the expert when it comes to Mastodon.
[07:09.300 --> 07:14.280]  And as you may know, I had a bit of a run-in on Mastodon, which I'm still trying to figure out.
[07:14.480 --> 07:18.880]  And just let me start at the outset by saying I don't mean to cause problems.
[07:18.880 --> 07:24.660]  I just seem to... because when I'm around, so I'm still learning about this.
[07:25.780 --> 07:32.280]  And, you know, I don't want to upset anybody, but sometimes people are going to get upset regardless.
[07:32.720 --> 07:36.740]  So, you've seen my Twitter feed.
[07:36.920 --> 07:38.080]  You've seen what I say on Twitter.
[07:38.300 --> 07:40.140]  You've seen the kinds of things I talk about.
[07:40.360 --> 07:45.540]  Sometimes, sometimes I talk about what's going on in the news.
[07:45.540 --> 07:47.540]  Sometimes I talk about the world.
[07:48.340 --> 07:52.180]  Sometimes I use words that you can't say over the radio.
[07:53.640 --> 07:55.360]  And, you know, you can take it or leave it.
[07:55.500 --> 07:57.260]  I'm not asking you to believe what I say.
[07:57.380 --> 07:59.500]  I'm not asking you to like what I say.
[08:00.940 --> 08:04.260]  But I do believe I have the right to say what I say.
[08:05.260 --> 08:08.520]  Well, apparently, that's not quite how it works on Mastodon.
[08:08.520 --> 08:17.100]  I'm on this instance, and an instance being just one server, is that the right word?
[08:17.620 --> 08:18.140]  Yeah.
[08:18.320 --> 08:19.420]  Where people write it on their own?
[08:20.180 --> 08:21.920]  And apparently, everybody has different rules.
[08:22.120 --> 08:25.720]  And I really wasn't aware that everybody had such radically different rules.
[08:25.880 --> 08:27.240]  This is what I said, okay?
[08:27.440 --> 08:32.260]  And, you know, it's harsh, but I was upset when I said it.
[08:32.340 --> 08:36.440]  I said, Israel is reported to have killed over 1,000 children since last week.
[08:36.440 --> 08:41.660]  If you can somehow justify this as necessary or unavoidable, you're no better than Hamas.
[08:42.220 --> 08:43.200]  That's what I said.
[08:44.460 --> 08:46.940]  Yeah, you know, people react.
[08:47.200 --> 08:58.580]  But the reaction I got on my Mastodon instance was to get a strike against my account, to be warned, to be told that that's inappropriate to say.
[08:59.640 --> 09:11.980]  The exact phrase I got was, please, either use content warnings for posts like this, or post them as any other visibility, such as unlisted, followers only, etc.
[09:14.060 --> 09:15.740]  And this is a rule...
[09:15.740 --> 09:17.300]  First of all, I didn't even know about it.
[09:17.380 --> 09:22.160]  I guess I didn't study all the rules that come with this instance.
[09:22.160 --> 09:28.540]  But it really rubbed me the wrong way because, first of all, I'm reporting a fact.
[09:28.780 --> 09:33.000]  You know, I'm reporting something that is on every news channel.
[09:33.820 --> 09:36.380]  And I'm simply expressing an opinion.
[09:36.540 --> 09:38.020]  What is objectionable about this?
[09:38.380 --> 09:47.400]  And I got to say, the responses that I got on Mastodon were much nastier than responses I get on Twitter.
[09:48.240 --> 09:53.820]  Basically, just people talking down and saying that, you know, you should know better than to say this.
[09:53.980 --> 09:54.880]  It could really bother somebody.
[09:55.340 --> 09:56.900]  Yeah, it could really bother somebody.
[09:57.080 --> 09:59.800]  But do I have to watch everything I say from now on?
[09:59.880 --> 10:03.120]  Because somebody might be upset by something I say.
[10:03.240 --> 10:06.000]  I think we should be upset at what I said.
[10:06.200 --> 10:08.520]  You know, the facts contained in what I said.
[10:09.300 --> 10:10.960]  And let's focus on that.
[10:11.260 --> 10:16.120]  We seem to have waltzed right over the fact that a thousand kids were killed.
[10:17.400 --> 10:19.820]  That we just don't seem to really care about.
[10:20.120 --> 10:22.400]  And if you talk about it, you're the problem.
[10:22.960 --> 10:23.640]  That's wrong.
[10:23.840 --> 10:24.420]  I'm sorry.
[10:24.540 --> 10:26.340]  That just rubs me the wrong way.
[10:26.600 --> 10:27.780]  And I don't know how to handle it.
[10:27.880 --> 10:29.320]  I really don't know what to do here.
[10:29.540 --> 10:33.560]  I have a feeling I'm not going to be on this instance any much longer.
[10:34.140 --> 10:35.300]  It happens to be in Germany.
[10:35.500 --> 10:37.420]  In fact, it happens to be run by Chaos, CCC.
[10:38.720 --> 10:44.480]  Which you'd think, you know, hackers would have thicker skin as far as this kind of thing goes.
[10:44.480 --> 10:46.240]  But I don't know.
[10:46.360 --> 10:47.960]  It might be a cultural thing.
[10:48.160 --> 10:50.280]  It might be in Germany, speech is treated differently.
[10:50.340 --> 10:53.680]  In fact, I know speech is treated differently in Germany than here.
[10:53.800 --> 10:57.900]  I'm not exactly sure how I wound up on a German Mastodon instance.
[10:58.600 --> 11:02.700]  But I noticed in the rules, there's a bunch of rules.
[11:02.820 --> 11:04.840]  Some of them, you know, make quite a bit of sense.
[11:05.020 --> 11:08.660]  Like no harassment and stalking and things like that.
[11:09.460 --> 11:10.780]  No Nazi content.
[11:10.900 --> 11:11.660]  That's nice.
[11:11.660 --> 11:14.300]  But how about this?
[11:14.380 --> 11:30.360]  When posting to the local timeline, which I'll get into in a second, provide content warnings for violence, sexuality, I'm sorry, sexually explicit content, death slash disease, and politics, particularly when negative or controversial.
[11:31.060 --> 11:35.440]  So I'm expected to label my own posts.
[11:36.820 --> 11:43.740]  I'm not exactly sure how this works, because they say it could be something like USPOL, USPOL, or elections.
[11:43.760 --> 11:48.080]  I don't know how it actually works, if that somehow gets filtered somewhere.
[11:48.320 --> 11:58.340]  I mean, if I pick USPOL, and somebody else picks U period, S period, POL, someone else says United States politics, is that all the same thing?
[11:58.340 --> 12:03.780]  Who is actually figuring out what these content warnings actually mean?
[12:03.960 --> 12:05.420]  I've never had to do this before.
[12:05.720 --> 12:11.060]  On horrible sites like Facebook and Twitter, I've never had to police my own words.
[12:11.700 --> 12:16.220]  And that's really something that, you know, I kind of thought Mastodon was going to be better.
[12:16.360 --> 12:27.080]  I thought Mastodon was going to be, you know, I'm not one of these free speech absolutist idiots that believe you should be able to say anything hurtful and racist and sexist and all that.
[12:27.140 --> 12:27.880]  No, not at all.
[12:28.620 --> 12:29.680]  This is a conversation.
[12:29.840 --> 12:32.060]  It's a conversation amongst adults.
[12:32.740 --> 12:35.440]  And I'm sorry if it upsets people.
[12:36.140 --> 12:43.660]  I'm sorry if, you know, facts of what's going on in the world or opinions rub people the wrong way.
[12:44.160 --> 12:46.880]  But, you know, things rub me the wrong way, too.
[12:47.240 --> 12:53.580]  I mean, I swear to God, if I see another post about Taylor Swift, I am going to start breaking things that I own that I value.
[12:53.700 --> 12:56.300]  And I mean it this time, because I cannot take any more of that.
[12:56.780 --> 12:57.640]  I cannot.
[12:58.160 --> 12:59.020]  My God.
[13:00.600 --> 13:02.300]  Everywhere you look, just Taylor Swift.
[13:02.560 --> 13:05.900]  But regardless, you know, that that rubs me the wrong way.
[13:06.040 --> 13:11.240]  But nobody, nobody, you know, I don't expect others to tiptoe around my sensibilities.
[13:11.620 --> 13:12.100]  I don't know.
[13:12.280 --> 13:17.400]  I'm sorry, I was asking for your advice on this and I haven't let you get a word in edgewise, but that was therapeutic for me.
[13:18.420 --> 13:23.480]  No, I'm glad because it really did seem to be having a therapeutic effect.
[13:23.480 --> 13:35.860]  But what you are coming up against, I'm terribly sorry, what you are coming up against is something that a lot of people new to Mastodon have found themselves butting up against in a wrong way.
[13:36.000 --> 13:51.240]  And it's actually something that has been noted as one of the more difficult facets of Mastodon, Mastodon's culture and how the how the app itself works for people coming from other social media to come to terms with.
[13:51.740 --> 13:53.320]  And that is content warnings.
[13:54.040 --> 14:05.220]  Now, there is a function when you write a post to put in a content warning and that content warning can just be a short string of text, which is effectively a subject line.
[14:05.680 --> 14:24.820]  And it it results in if you put something in there like US politics or sexually explicit post or violence or, you know, Star Trek spoilers or what have you, anything that you think somebody on the other end might want to scroll past instead of seeing your toot,
[14:25.020 --> 14:28.300]  your post to Mastodon comes up as just that line.
[14:28.600 --> 14:32.340]  And those interested can click on it and see the entire post.
[14:32.640 --> 14:34.700]  Those not interested can just scroll past.
[14:34.900 --> 14:38.480]  And that is a deliberate function of how Mastodon works.
[14:38.620 --> 14:45.380]  Now, what you came up against is, I think, not to do with what you were actually expressing about what's going on right now in the world.
[14:45.640 --> 15:00.660]  It's to do with the fact that political content, especially extremely emotional political content, such as anything about the war that's going on now, is high stress material to some people.
[15:00.900 --> 15:06.080]  It's material that some people want the ability to not have in their feed, but still follow you.
[15:06.540 --> 15:12.180]  And so what the content warning does is it provide, it is not policing what you're saying.
[15:12.180 --> 15:14.540]  It is providing a category to what you're saying.
[15:14.640 --> 15:23.180]  It is categorizing what you're saying and allowing people to decide for themselves whether or not they want to click past that and see the post or just move on with their day.
[15:23.480 --> 15:24.420]  This is also...
[15:24.420 --> 15:24.700]  Yeah, go ahead.
[15:24.780 --> 15:24.940]  Sorry.
[15:25.760 --> 15:33.480]  I think in a way you could also say that a content warning, first of all, there is a setting that you can apply that will allow you to expand anything with a content warning.
[15:33.640 --> 15:38.520]  So if you personally don't feel you need content warnings, you can disable them globally on your own account.
[15:39.160 --> 15:49.120]  But I think of content warnings as like deodorant and hygiene, because you can say, this is the way that my body smells.
[15:49.120 --> 15:50.860]  And if that offends you, I'm sorry.
[15:51.140 --> 15:56.440]  But we can also take steps to mitigate the fact that, you know, people's armpits and butts smell.
[15:56.900 --> 16:02.880]  And you don't have to waft that at the people around you unless they're really into that and they want to walk up to you and sniff your armpit.
[16:03.020 --> 16:03.800]  That's fine.
[16:03.960 --> 16:06.700]  But like content warnings are like hygiene.
[16:06.980 --> 16:28.280]  Because I will say that right now, I very much appreciate them because if I want to see like cooking videos and I do not want an absolute fire hose of people who have been killed and maimed and kidnapped, I need a place where I can do that.
[16:29.080 --> 16:35.120]  Because in my social media world, that's all anybody's talking about.
[16:35.820 --> 16:39.460]  And if there's a time and a place where I can say I need a minute.
[16:40.620 --> 16:42.420]  Yeah, I need a minute.
[16:42.640 --> 16:49.320]  Okay, but you know, I just feel like I'm being called upon to do this extra work to label what I am saying.
[16:49.640 --> 16:50.980]  And that's really difficult to do.
[16:51.060 --> 16:52.620]  How do I even label what I said?
[16:52.740 --> 16:53.300]  What is that?
[16:53.560 --> 16:55.380]  It's a, you know, it's a it's a headline.
[16:55.600 --> 16:56.780]  It's something that happened.
[16:56.980 --> 16:58.000]  It's, it's horrible.
[16:58.140 --> 17:06.600]  You know, the word I use to describe it, child massacre might also be upsetting to somebody because I don't know of any other way to describe that.
[17:06.740 --> 17:07.760]  I really don't.
[17:07.840 --> 17:11.020]  It's not, you know, bad news.
[17:11.240 --> 17:14.620]  It's, you know, whatever I say, it's not going to do it justice.
[17:14.940 --> 17:20.080]  And plus, the time I have to spend thinking about, okay, what did I just say?
[17:20.160 --> 17:20.820]  And what does it mean?
[17:20.820 --> 17:22.280]  And how's it going to affect other people?
[17:22.540 --> 17:26.360]  And, you know, I, I, I long for the simple days where I said something.
[17:26.520 --> 17:29.480]  And then if I say something stupid, someone tells me I said something stupid.
[17:29.860 --> 17:36.940]  Um, but I don't get demerits for, for, um, basically saying something that somebody might find offensive.
[17:37.320 --> 17:38.220]  I don't know.
[17:38.320 --> 17:40.080]  It's just, I'm having a difficult time with this.
[17:41.120 --> 17:45.660]  But it's also important to know that, that you are not the only person having a difficult time with this.
[17:45.780 --> 18:01.480]  A lot of people, a lot of people in our fields, um, as well as people in general, um, during the great migrations away from Twitter and Instagram and things like that to Mastodon, um, a lot of people have found themselves coming up against that and not fully understanding it,
[18:01.600 --> 18:15.380]  not, not understanding the rules and how they were, how they are presented and not understanding the cultural norms of Mastodon, which, uh, for many people, like many people, content warning, uh, put content warnings on things that are completely, uh,
[18:15.500 --> 18:18.660]  just benign to, um, perhaps the vast majority of us.
[18:18.780 --> 18:28.100]  There are people who post content warnings, uh, you know, who will post content warnings for food and anything involving food or pictures of food, because that might be upsetting to people with certain eating disorders.
[18:28.300 --> 18:43.820]  There are people who post content warnings about a photo with eye contact to the screen because people, uh, with some sort of, with some, uh, you know, certain types of, uh, I believe autistic, uh, um, spectrum, um, uh, related, uh, related things that they live with,
[18:43.820 --> 18:50.140]  um, could be upset by pictures of eye And one way to look at that is, well, everyone's so thin-skinned.
[18:50.340 --> 18:52.140]  Everyone's so oversensitive.
[18:52.660 --> 18:57.680]  But I think that also is related to the fact that they were called content warnings.
[18:58.020 --> 19:06.960]  If this functionality were in the software, but it was just called subject line, which is what it functionally is, then that might not put people off so much.
[19:06.960 --> 19:10.360]  It might also ease people in understanding how this whole mess works.
[19:10.560 --> 19:19.300]  And it is a pain point that is being raised all over the place in the Mastodon community, on the Mastodon project, on GitHub, and further.
[19:19.480 --> 19:35.600]  And there are big discussions around how can we make this whole thing more understandable, more welcoming to new users, and more of a thing that makes sense to folks coming in, rather than what it is now, which is kind of something that grew organically from,
[19:35.620 --> 19:42.740]  you know, a small community of users in the beginning, that has spread into basically a cultural norm on the service.
[19:43.320 --> 19:45.140]  So, yes, it is a pain point.
[19:45.300 --> 19:50.440]  Yes, it seems silly, weird, or any number of other things to people coming in.
[19:50.560 --> 19:54.120]  But also, from the receiving end, it can be a very useful thing.
[19:54.400 --> 19:59.420]  And it is a thing that a lot of Mastodon instances get strict about in the rules.
[19:59.420 --> 20:01.660]  Well, again, you know, I'm new to this.
[20:01.940 --> 20:02.440]  There's a lot.
[20:02.560 --> 20:05.620]  I don't really get the whole local feed thing.
[20:06.480 --> 20:10.380]  Apparently, when you post things, it's visible on the local feed.
[20:10.480 --> 20:18.580]  And suggestions were that you disable that, or you just send to your followers, or you make your posts unlisted.
[20:19.460 --> 20:23.580]  And, you know, these may, quote-unquote, solve the problem.
[20:23.580 --> 20:28.500]  But it seems to me that I am making my speech less than the speech of other people.
[20:28.600 --> 20:34.140]  And why should I be doing that when I think what I'm saying is perfectly valid in a conversation?
[20:34.800 --> 20:40.300]  And, you know, I don't want to always have to be asterisking what I'm saying, or defining what I'm saying.
[20:40.300 --> 20:46.100]  It's, you know, it really... imagine every sentence that you say, because what you're posting basically is a sentence.
[20:46.780 --> 20:49.280]  You have to fill out a form.
[20:49.580 --> 20:51.200]  You have to say, what is this?
[20:51.320 --> 20:51.980]  What does it mean?
[20:52.100 --> 20:52.820]  Who could it offend?
[20:53.480 --> 20:54.580]  And, et cetera.
[20:55.260 --> 20:58.800]  You know, I guess for people who have been using Mastodon a while, this might seem unreasonable.
[20:58.900 --> 21:05.680]  But for somebody who is used to just being able to say what they, you know, what's on their mind, I don't know.
[21:05.680 --> 21:08.520]  No, it seems overly difficult.
[21:09.260 --> 21:25.640]  If the benefit to the few that are suffering from those conditions and need this desperately is, I mean, in some cases, yes, it's completely warranted and needed.
[21:25.640 --> 21:38.680]  But it seems like keywords are also being lumped into this so that any discussion that trips it up sets it to trigger.
[21:39.000 --> 21:44.780]  And basically, you then get in this scenario where, as you said, you have to choose through things.
[21:44.780 --> 22:02.940]  Well, what if everything you said was a content warning, kind of like Rob was alluding to, that, you know, people almost use it in a jokey way or just for all kinds of unusual scenarios to describe and contextualize what they're posting.
[22:03.100 --> 22:04.160]  Well, I mean, we're talking on the radio.
[22:04.380 --> 22:10.160]  So what if a sentence that you say, Kyle, is upsetting to somebody, but you didn't warn them before you said the sentence?
[22:10.340 --> 22:13.740]  Now, you just said the sentence without thinking because it's part of expression.
[22:13.740 --> 22:15.400]  It takes the spontaneity.
[22:15.540 --> 22:16.020]  Exactly.
[22:16.240 --> 22:17.300]  It takes the spontaneity out of it.
[22:17.400 --> 22:31.820]  But also, a lot of... and let's just say it's something that's controversial, but it's not necessarily hate speech or something incredibly, you know, like making a personal threat to somebody.
[22:32.000 --> 22:32.720]  Hate speech is illegal.
[22:33.100 --> 22:33.420]  That's easy.
[22:33.520 --> 22:34.820]  That's easy to figure out.
[22:35.200 --> 22:51.360]  But part of getting people's attention or saying something that might be edgy or, you know, unpopular, in a particular moment at all, part of that is getting people's attention who wouldn't ordinarily respond to that.
[22:51.520 --> 23:04.580]  So if you basically put a warning on everything or have to basically obfuscate it, you're benefiting a couple of people that might react to those words, but in an extreme case.
[23:04.580 --> 23:09.920]  But if it's not that extreme, you're kind of cutting people off to being able to make up their own mind.
[23:09.920 --> 23:14.520]  And to the people that might say, okay, they're all in on this.
[23:14.620 --> 23:16.600]  Like, this is just how it is.
[23:17.180 --> 23:23.500]  They benefit as far as just their own ignorance or the living in that bliss.
[23:23.580 --> 23:29.760]  And you're feeling stifled and as though you've got all this additional work to do to qualify.
[23:29.760 --> 23:42.880]  What, in the very guidelines you read, include politics, which in Internet culture and just in speech in general, is the point of the public square.
[23:43.080 --> 23:47.040]  So they're losing me a little bit in this, I think, for those reasons.
[23:47.200 --> 23:53.060]  I don't think the number really is the issue, whether it's two people or two million people that could be affected by this.
[23:53.160 --> 23:54.380]  It's important either way.
[23:54.380 --> 23:59.120]  But I'm just debating whether this is the right way to handle it.
[23:59.460 --> 24:12.400]  Would it not be a better solution to have some kind of filter that looks for speech that could be a problem to somebody who inputs their options, their choices?
[24:13.020 --> 24:16.000]  That way, you know, I think it would do a better job.
[24:16.000 --> 24:24.780]  Because, you know, I might put a content warning label on something, but a different content warning might also apply for somebody else.
[24:24.920 --> 24:27.120]  So do I put two content warnings for different things?
[24:27.240 --> 24:28.640]  And, you know, where does it end?
[24:28.720 --> 24:33.280]  It just, it seems like you're doing a lot of policing of your own speech.
[24:33.460 --> 24:37.920]  And I do think that that would keep you from speaking quite a bit.
[24:38.060 --> 24:38.640]  Alex, go ahead.
[24:39.460 --> 24:45.060]  Well, first, I totally disagree with the statement that you made on Mastodon.
[24:45.220 --> 24:49.340]  Maybe we can debate that at some point later tonight or over time or something.
[24:49.600 --> 24:50.640]  But putting that aside...
[24:50.640 --> 24:51.640]  Who, me or Mastodon?
[24:52.440 --> 24:52.920]  You.
[24:53.180 --> 24:54.600]  Your statement on Mastodon.
[24:54.660 --> 24:56.540]  Just for the record, I disagree with what you said.
[24:56.540 --> 25:04.140]  But I agree with you with respect to you should not have the need to start labeling and self-censoring.
[25:04.180 --> 25:04.920]  Hang on, Alex.
[25:05.040 --> 25:05.640]  What is it?
[25:05.680 --> 25:06.440]  I said a lot of things.
[25:06.440 --> 25:08.780]  What is it you disagree with that I said about Mastodon?
[25:09.780 --> 25:17.020]  No, not about Mastodon, but on Mastodon, about the moral equivalency between Hamas and Israel and the massacre of children.
[25:17.120 --> 25:18.000]  That's what I disagree with.
[25:18.080 --> 25:19.200]  I don't think there is a moral equivalency.
[25:19.200 --> 25:19.320]  Okay.
[25:19.420 --> 25:21.060]  Well, you know, we're not going to get into that now.
[25:21.140 --> 25:22.360]  All I said was...
[25:22.360 --> 25:27.120]  I said we don't need to get into that now, but we can talk about that some other time later.
[25:27.480 --> 25:34.620]  But what I totally disagree with is this need to regulate your own content on a social media platform.
[25:34.620 --> 25:38.880]  Oh my God, that I agree with you entirely about, but I don't use Mastodon.
[25:39.060 --> 25:44.540]  And so my lack of erudition on this subject may make my response seem silly or curt here.
[25:44.780 --> 25:57.380]  But to me, it seems like this notion of labeling your own content is this really an unnecessary form of self-censorship that at heart, at least to me, seems more like the latest version of virtual signaling and holier-than-thou nonsense.
[25:57.380 --> 26:05.160]  That is the reason why I think social media in general is a useless cesspit of noise with little to no redeeming signal.
[26:06.080 --> 26:08.180]  And where does this end, though?
[26:08.260 --> 26:17.700]  I mean, if we take this kind of to the reductio ad absurdum approach, Rob, you would mention people labeling posts with food in them or something because it might trigger somebody with an eating disorder.
[26:18.640 --> 26:25.520]  By that same token, we should have content warnings on every single magazine and every single book in case there's a picture of food on it.
[26:25.680 --> 26:31.140]  All this seems totally ridiculous to me, unworkable, and just silly.
[26:32.300 --> 26:33.060]  Go ahead, Rob.
[26:34.800 --> 26:43.720]  Well, as I was describing this, I think it's still like you guys are getting the message that this is about editing yourself.
[26:43.720 --> 26:45.260]  It's about regulating your speech.
[26:45.520 --> 26:46.860]  It's about putting in extra work.
[26:46.980 --> 26:50.040]  But I ask you to imagine your email inbox.
[26:50.400 --> 26:51.800]  We've all been using those for decades.
[26:51.800 --> 26:52.660]  We know how they work.
[26:52.780 --> 26:53.560]  We're comfortable with them.
[26:54.340 --> 27:00.740]  Imagine your email inbox if, instead of a row of subject lines, it had the full text of every single email.
[27:01.480 --> 27:02.540]  That would be a mess.
[27:02.680 --> 27:04.240]  That would be terrible to navigate through.
[27:04.360 --> 27:13.320]  And also, you wouldn't be able to easily find whichever one thing it was that you were looking for in your archive or, you know, whichever thing you were interested in in going back and clicking on and reading.
[27:13.720 --> 27:19.580]  Yeah, but by design, these are short texts that you're supposed to read.
[27:19.800 --> 27:22.280]  There are no subjects on short text, usually.
[27:23.460 --> 27:28.380]  Sometimes, but on some instances, you can actually write full-length blog posts.
[27:28.540 --> 27:30.800]  You can write ridiculously long things.
[27:30.980 --> 27:35.340]  Every instance has their own idea of what the text limit is.
[27:35.420 --> 27:36.500]  But that's another thing.
[27:37.200 --> 27:43.760]  But, yeah, this is about being welcoming to as many people as possible.
[27:44.040 --> 27:48.160]  And to that end, it is about accommodating as many people as possible.
[27:48.980 --> 27:55.640]  There are things that I post because I use Mastodon as basically my daily driver and because I'm involved in many things.
[27:56.180 --> 28:03.280]  Things like this program, things like hacker stuff, but also my artwork, my comedy, my, you know, just other randomness.
[28:03.460 --> 28:15.220]  And as social media, as you described, Alex, has become such a firehose of nonsense and noise, I find the content warning system actually serves to mitigate that.
[28:15.220 --> 28:19.160]  It lets you modulate the noise.
[28:19.360 --> 28:24.620]  It lets you tweak it to have an experience that I'm reading the things from this person that I want to read.
[28:24.620 --> 28:28.460]  They're writing about other stuff I'm not interested in, and I don't have to read those.
[28:28.740 --> 28:32.280]  So it's actually, I think, working on the problem that you're talking about.
[28:33.040 --> 28:44.700]  And I think it does it in a way that, you know, as everything else in Mastodon has been sort of hacked together on the fly by people who are basically, like, fixing the car while it's driving down the highway at 80 miles an hour.
[28:45.340 --> 28:48.260]  And it's really interesting to see how this is all coming up.
[28:48.300 --> 28:56.980]  And I think that is definitely evocative of the hacker spirit behind the Mastodon project and behind a great amount of the community that are running the thing.
[28:57.120 --> 29:04.620]  But you see, what you're arguing there is content warning as a way to make things more efficient, not content warning as a penalty.
[29:04.800 --> 29:06.340]  And that's what I was faced with.
[29:06.500 --> 29:11.980]  My speech was wrong, and it needs a content warning to prevent people from reading it.
[29:12.420 --> 29:14.220]  That's basically the message that I got.
[29:14.220 --> 29:20.240]  And I've never gotten a strike on any of my social media accounts before.
[29:20.540 --> 29:22.160]  Here, I'm using this...
[29:22.900 --> 29:27.180]  I actually started using it as much as I was using Twitter for, like, two days.
[29:27.180 --> 29:29.040]  And I got a strike almost immediately.
[29:29.280 --> 29:31.820]  So that does not bode well, in my view.
[29:32.060 --> 29:32.540]  Go ahead, Gila.
[29:32.920 --> 29:42.260]  So I think part of the key issue here is the decentralized nature of Mastodon and that every instance has its own rules and guidelines.
[29:42.260 --> 29:48.380]  And you need to make sure you know what the rules and guidelines of the instance you're signing up with happen to be.
[29:48.540 --> 29:54.700]  But with that said, I would like to reiterate what I said earlier about deodorant.
[29:54.820 --> 29:56.220]  And let me explain what I mean.
[29:56.620 --> 30:01.600]  Because I don't see the content warning system as policing what I'm saying.
[30:01.600 --> 30:04.680]  I see it as being a good neighbor.
[30:04.980 --> 30:10.660]  I don't run up and down the street yelling whatever I'm yelling at the top of my lungs.
[30:11.540 --> 30:17.680]  And in the same way, using the content warning system, I think, enables people to kind of opt in.
[30:17.800 --> 30:19.520]  It's putting an opt-in model on it.
[30:19.720 --> 30:26.780]  People have already opted in in a way in that they're following me or we're on the same instance.
[30:27.020 --> 30:39.840]  But maybe, you know, if I'm talking about college football, they're not as interested in hearing it as they would be if I'm talking about this radio show or karaoke or 80s movies or whatever it is I happen to be talking about.
[30:40.060 --> 30:51.520]  And I think that using the content warning system is less about self-policing and more about being a responsible member of the community in which you find yourself.
[30:51.640 --> 30:54.580]  Not unlike putting deodorant on before you leave the house.
[30:54.700 --> 31:01.880]  I do like the deodorant comparison, but I must say that if you had to put deodorant on every time you said a sentence, it would get to be a pain in the ass.
[31:02.100 --> 31:03.460]  That's my belief.
[31:04.420 --> 31:05.800]  Okay, enough about MasterDone.
[31:05.920 --> 31:06.760]  Let's talk about Blue Sky.
[31:07.040 --> 31:08.100]  Who's on Blue Sky?
[31:09.060 --> 31:13.020]  Blue Sky is hard because you need an invitation to get on to Blue Sky.
[31:13.700 --> 31:19.060]  Once you get an invitation, you get an invitation code in two weeks and you can invite somebody else.
[31:19.860 --> 31:22.780]  And yeah, I guess that's sort of how they're spreading.
[31:24.700 --> 31:25.540]  It's interesting.
[31:25.760 --> 31:28.100]  It's very similar to Twitter in look.
[31:29.300 --> 31:31.980]  And the operation is a little bit different.
[31:33.060 --> 31:36.160]  Any of you guys using Blue Sky at all or are familiar with it?
[31:38.260 --> 31:39.800]  They can't hear you shake your head.
[31:39.960 --> 31:40.080]  Okay.
[31:40.260 --> 31:41.280]  I mean, they can't see you shake your head.
[31:43.120 --> 31:48.360]  So, yeah, I've been experimenting with it over the past few weeks or so.
[31:48.360 --> 32:01.340]  So, big problem with Blue Sky that I can see is responsiveness because there are a bunch of problems that need fixing and there's nobody there to actually fix them.
[32:01.600 --> 32:07.100]  Or at least if they do fix them, it takes quite a while and they don't tell you that they fixed it.
[32:07.740 --> 32:10.160]  For instance, this is really cool, by the way.
[32:10.300 --> 32:16.040]  If you have a domain and we have 2600.com, you can use that domain as your username.
[32:16.260 --> 32:18.600]  And that's a cool username to have and no one else can do that.
[32:18.700 --> 32:24.840]  You have to put something on the site that Blue Sky will look at and confirm that it's there.
[32:25.040 --> 32:27.380]  And then you get that particular username.
[32:27.520 --> 32:33.620]  However, when you do this, your profile disappears for about 10 or 15 minutes.
[32:33.880 --> 32:34.920]  No explanation.
[32:35.980 --> 32:40.640]  And, of course, you're panicking that you've deleted your account or that you've made it inaccessible.
[32:41.420 --> 32:50.080]  And when we finally got 2600.com configured, then it showed up as invalid username.
[32:50.400 --> 32:52.500]  And we had no idea what that was all about.
[32:52.500 --> 32:57.680]  So we were writing all these trouble forms, not getting any response.
[32:57.680 --> 33:00.560]  And then a day later, it just started working.
[33:00.560 --> 33:01.580]  We had no idea why.
[33:02.340 --> 33:05.200]  So things like that, I think, are an issue.
[33:05.200 --> 33:11.300]  Um, but actually, one of the biggest problems that we've noticed is impersonation.
[33:11.520 --> 33:19.140]  There doesn't seem to be a method of keeping people from saying that they're you or they're your organization.
[33:19.160 --> 33:23.320]  And we have a big problem with that with 2600, where how do we prove...
[33:23.320 --> 33:26.440]  I mean, having the 2600.com username is a good way to prove that.
[33:26.620 --> 33:35.560]  But if there are other users claiming that they're the same entity that you are, yeah, that's an issue.
[33:35.780 --> 33:42.440]  And if they're not taking it seriously, I don't know if there's much of a future.
[33:42.700 --> 33:46.900]  There's no amount of branding we can do to differentiate from that.
[33:47.100 --> 33:47.460]  Uh-huh.
[33:47.760 --> 33:48.340]  Yeah, I mean...
[33:48.340 --> 33:49.160]  It's unfair.
[33:51.580 --> 33:54.380]  Goodbye, blue sky.
[33:54.900 --> 33:56.580]  No, no, no, that's not funny.
[33:57.100 --> 33:58.760]  Goodbye, blue sky.
[33:59.380 --> 34:00.700]  Premature, premature.
[34:01.560 --> 34:03.060]  I mean, they're new.
[34:04.620 --> 34:06.140]  Okay, enough of that, enough of that.
[34:07.240 --> 34:08.700]  Yeah, but I recommend it.
[34:08.800 --> 34:09.840]  I do recommend trying it.
[34:09.920 --> 34:10.840]  It's easy to use.
[34:11.300 --> 34:14.560]  It's one of several different options out there.
[34:15.340 --> 34:16.000]  I don't know.
[34:16.140 --> 34:20.240]  You know, it's never easy to figure out how to communicate.
[34:20.400 --> 34:21.100]  It used to be easier.
[34:21.100 --> 34:34.140]  When everybody had aim, when everybody was able to send a message to somebody, when Twitter was able to feed to Facebook, it just seemed like you could talk to a lot of people and they could talk to you.
[34:34.280 --> 34:39.120]  And now, people are on their own platforms and they expect you to be as well.
[34:40.560 --> 34:46.020]  If you want to talk to somebody on LinkedIn, you've got to get a LinkedIn account and you have to, you know, communicate with them that way.
[34:46.020 --> 34:49.540]  And now, people are shying away from email.
[34:49.660 --> 34:56.840]  And that's a problem because there are very few ways to actually agree on a communication standard.
[34:57.300 --> 35:01.960]  I think we're at a huge fragmentation point in a lot of the different services.
[35:01.960 --> 35:05.440]  And a lot of the users have a sort of...
[35:06.940 --> 35:15.200]  They're a little bit sort of disassociated or maybe up for grabs.
[35:15.220 --> 35:22.060]  And there's a lot of vying for that loyalty and getting new users and getting people to try different things.
[35:22.240 --> 35:25.560]  And it is, I think, giving a sense of...
[35:25.560 --> 35:28.040]  an unsettling sense of sort of upheaval.
[35:28.040 --> 35:29.540]  Nobody's connected.
[35:29.720 --> 35:30.240]  Nobody's...
[35:30.240 --> 35:36.560]  And there's plenty of actors taking advantage of all of that chaos.
[35:36.920 --> 35:42.820]  You see this story in The Verge about Mayor Eric Adams in New York City.
[35:43.000 --> 35:51.920]  Thanks to artificial intelligence tools, New York City Mayor Eric Adams has sent a barrage of robocalls to residents in languages he doesn't speak.
[35:52.600 --> 36:02.800]  That includes thousands of robocalls in Spanish, more than 250 in Yiddish, more than 160 in Mandarin, 57 in Klingon, 89 in...
[36:02.800 --> 36:03.260]  No, I'm kidding.
[36:03.380 --> 36:06.340]  89 in Cantonese and 23 in Haitian Creole.
[36:06.420 --> 36:07.360]  Why not Klingon, though?
[36:07.440 --> 36:08.200]  I mean, you could do it.
[36:08.700 --> 36:17.780]  That's triggered pushback over how ethical it is for Adams to portray himself to potential voters as someone who speaks their native language when he actually doesn't.
[36:17.820 --> 36:18.640]  Doesn't he speak Spanish?
[36:18.800 --> 36:19.860]  I'm surprised.
[36:20.320 --> 36:22.140]  Let's hear what he sounds like.
[36:22.140 --> 36:24.880]  Hello, I'm Eric Adams.
[36:25.080 --> 36:31.780]  We want to invite him to come to work with the city of New York and help Husser that this great city be better.
[36:32.560 --> 36:43.560]  We're happy to bring our next employment session informative session to your community, in which the municipal agencies selected and contrated people like you.
[36:44.140 --> 36:50.960]  Get a good remuneration, excellent benefits, and the opportunity to maintain this city in functioning.
[36:51.660 --> 36:52.940]  I hope to see it there.
[36:53.520 --> 36:54.080]  Wow.
[36:54.400 --> 36:55.760]  Does that sound like Eric Adams?
[36:56.060 --> 36:57.360]  People seem to think it does.
[36:58.860 --> 36:59.960]  Yeah, I think so.
[37:00.120 --> 37:00.320]  Okay.
[37:00.380 --> 37:00.880]  I think it does.
[37:01.280 --> 37:02.620]  Well, okay.
[37:02.760 --> 37:12.900]  So Albert Fox Khan, Executive Director of the Surveillance Technology Oversight Project, which spells stop, said this is deeply unethical, especially on the taxpayer's dime.
[37:13.340 --> 37:17.360]  Using AI to convince New Yorkers that he speaks languages that he doesn't is deeply Orwellian.
[37:17.700 --> 37:23.200]  You know, I think there are a lot of things that you could call Eric Adams unethical about.
[37:23.480 --> 37:24.820]  I'm not sure this is one of them.
[37:25.080 --> 37:27.020]  You know, this is kind of cool.
[37:27.180 --> 37:33.240]  I mean, you can use artificial intelligence to speak a foreign language to people so they understand what you're saying and it sounds like you.
[37:33.500 --> 37:36.920]  Maybe preface it by saying this is artificial intelligence, not really me.
[37:37.020 --> 37:37.400]  I don't know.
[37:38.060 --> 37:39.820]  But I don't really have a problem with this.
[37:40.580 --> 37:41.580]  What do you think, Alex?
[37:43.060 --> 37:44.720]  I again disagree with you, though.
[37:44.800 --> 37:49.620]  I do think there's an ethics issue here with this, but in particular, because there's no preface.
[37:50.020 --> 38:03.160]  I think it's disingenuous of him to make a call to a potential voter, let's say, in Mandarin in his voice and allow that voter to think that he speaks that language.
[38:03.160 --> 38:04.580]  How do you know it's him?
[38:04.740 --> 38:05.480]  How do you know he did it?
[38:06.380 --> 38:07.020]  What do you mean?
[38:07.220 --> 38:11.240]  Well, I mean, it's official, I guess, but anybody could do this.
[38:11.820 --> 38:23.340]  Well, anybody could do this, sure, but I mean, it obviously benefits him and we have to, I think, assume for the moment that he has authorized that he's spoken about and he was quite proud of it, I think, at the press conference.
[38:23.700 --> 38:32.780]  But my main issue here is, though, that it's misleading to voters without having some kind of preface that says that this was created or generated using artificial intelligence.
[38:33.020 --> 38:41.940]  Mr. Adams doesn't speak Mandarin, but this message is in Mandarin or this message was generated using artificial intelligence, you know, to, in Mandarin, something like that.
[38:42.260 --> 38:48.160]  Do you think he gets more voter approval if they hear him speaking their language?
[38:48.340 --> 38:48.800]  You think it's...
[38:48.800 --> 38:49.920]  Absolutely, absolutely.
[38:49.920 --> 38:51.400]  It's definitely a way to connect.
[38:51.620 --> 38:58.220]  What I disagree with, Mr. Kahn, is I don't see how this is Orwellian in a lot of ways.
[38:58.260 --> 38:59.360]  I think it's unethical.
[38:59.360 --> 39:04.220]  I think he's right about it shouldn't be happening on a taxpayer's dime as well.
[39:04.380 --> 39:06.100]  I'd like to know what kind of...
[39:06.100 --> 39:09.260]  I'd like to see some kind of accounting about how much money was spent on this type of thing.
[39:09.680 --> 39:12.140]  But I don't think it's Orwellian necessarily.
[39:12.440 --> 39:14.140]  That's different to me.
[39:14.800 --> 39:15.260]  All right.
[39:15.320 --> 39:18.760]  Well, you know, we should get used to this because I think more things like this are going to be happening.
[39:18.920 --> 39:19.260]  Go ahead, Gila.
[39:19.960 --> 39:20.680]  I think...
[39:20.680 --> 39:22.800]  I don't know if I would say Orwellian necessarily.
[39:22.880 --> 39:26.120]  I do think it is pandering in the ugliest possible way.
[39:26.120 --> 39:30.620]  And also, I'm sorry, Eric Adams learned how to speak six languages.
[39:30.620 --> 39:33.080]  The man doesn't know his robot cops don't have hands.
[39:33.820 --> 39:35.700]  I'm still not quite over that, by the way.
[39:36.260 --> 39:36.820]  And...
[39:36.820 --> 39:42.760]  But no, this idea that he speaks your language and he's going to be calling you and speaking in this language.
[39:43.360 --> 39:47.620]  People made fun of Michael Bloomberg for making announcements in Spanish.
[39:48.060 --> 39:52.320]  But we saw Michael Bloomberg reading the Spanish off the paper.
[39:52.800 --> 39:54.520]  God love him, the man was trying.
[39:56.260 --> 39:58.120]  And that's what we're missing here.
[39:58.260 --> 39:59.140]  But hold on a second.
[39:59.360 --> 40:00.000]  Hold on a second.
[40:00.300 --> 40:08.300]  Was the man speaking Spanish or was it just reading it off a piece of paper and doing the best he can without understanding what he was talking about?
[40:08.540 --> 40:09.300]  How is that different?
[40:09.720 --> 40:10.500]  How is that different?
[40:10.820 --> 40:12.400]  It's completely different because he's making an effort.
[40:12.980 --> 40:19.040]  He's not saying, I'm going to farm this out to somebody that I'm no part of.
[40:19.180 --> 40:20.920]  I'm going to make an effort to see...
[40:20.920 --> 40:23.240]  If you see the mayor...
[40:23.240 --> 40:28.100]  And yes, there was a Twitter account called El Blumbito that made fun of this phenomenon and it was amazing.
[40:28.340 --> 40:35.120]  But for people to see the mayor is making an effort to communicate with me in a way that I can understand.
[40:35.120 --> 40:37.880]  And he didn't do it in Mandarin because that was probably way beyond his ken.
[40:38.120 --> 40:39.480]  That's not written in English letters.
[40:39.860 --> 40:50.020]  But again, he was trying and Eric Adams is just like, I'm going to put forth the least amount of effort I possibly can to attempt to reap efforts.
[40:50.580 --> 40:54.200]  Like I said, pandering on a colossal scale and it worries me where this could go from here.
[40:54.300 --> 40:56.620]  Well, first of all, when did pandering become something new for politicians?
[40:56.820 --> 40:58.720]  They constantly are doing that.
[40:59.200 --> 40:59.780]  But I think...
[40:59.780 --> 41:00.120]  We're paying for it.
[41:00.160 --> 41:05.100]  I think what's happening here is not so much Eric Adams did something that Michael Bloomberg wouldn't.
[41:05.220 --> 41:07.980]  It's the technology has changed and made it so much easier.
[41:08.100 --> 41:12.580]  I think Michael Bloomberg would be shoving Adams aside to do this first.
[41:12.900 --> 41:13.500]  So I don't...
[41:13.500 --> 41:18.360]  You know, I think this is something that you'll see from a lot of politicians and probably a lot of other people as well.
[41:19.760 --> 41:32.520]  The thing that struck me was that a lot of mailers and campaign materials that are printed that politicians use to speak directly to the voters are translated as...
[41:32.890 --> 41:42.060]  And I mean, that's not deceiving people in exactly the same way that we're suggesting with someone speaking it to you.
[41:42.060 --> 41:47.920]  But I think he is being kind of open about the technology and basically saying, yo, it's 2023.
[41:48.200 --> 41:51.500]  Yeah, the reading of the paper, that's how we did it back then.
[41:51.500 --> 41:55.620]  But I'm skipping all that and now I can speak six languages.
[41:55.940 --> 42:02.020]  It's like Eric Adams just hopped out the Matrix and he's like, yeah, I want to get reelected or whatever.
[42:02.680 --> 42:03.940]  He's playing with it.
[42:04.040 --> 42:10.900]  And I think some kind of warning like was suggested might be appropriate.
[42:10.900 --> 42:15.020]  But especially if it's deployed like on robocalls and stuff.
[42:15.020 --> 42:18.640]  I don't think that's unreasonable to say this is an AI-generated call.
[42:18.780 --> 42:19.420]  But phone calls are different.
[42:19.420 --> 42:22.680]  I just think people are more comfortable if they hear somebody speaking in their language.
[42:22.800 --> 42:31.140]  I don't know what the alternative is to have somebody who's not Eric Adams speaking for him and it just puts people at a disadvantage to not feel that connection.
[42:31.600 --> 42:37.700]  Yeah, and I think a lot of the content maybe would be less obnoxious.
[42:37.840 --> 42:49.300]  Like if there are videos and things that are being translated and getting his message out to people that do not necessarily speak English as a first language then it's something that a lot of politicians are going to try to take advantage of.
[42:49.400 --> 42:50.840]  Does anybody have any idea of what he was saying?
[42:51.100 --> 42:52.460]  I don't think any of us speak Spanish.
[42:52.660 --> 42:53.260]  No, I don't know.
[42:53.260 --> 42:54.080]  No idea what he's talking about.
[42:54.220 --> 42:54.400]  Gila?
[42:54.820 --> 42:56.060]  He was talking about a job fair.
[42:56.340 --> 43:05.000]  He said if you come and work for the city you'll get good benefits and decent money and he was basically inviting people to a hiring fair.
[43:05.460 --> 43:05.660]  Wow.
[43:06.040 --> 43:06.220]  Okay.
[43:06.520 --> 43:06.780]  All right.
[43:06.860 --> 43:07.020]  Rob?
[43:08.240 --> 43:23.580]  The thing about this is it's a marketing tool and it's a brilliant marketing tool because as you said it is very comforting for people to hear something said to them in their own language and for people who immigrated to this country English isn't their first language yes,
[43:23.720 --> 43:44.640]  that can be awesome to get the feeling that the mayor speaks my language that means the mayor has some familiarity at least or understanding of my culture my community and might understand my needs more fully and so using this robocall tool like this is a brilliant marketing move and like most brilliant marketing moves it's pretty evil because it's just deceptive it's tripping that switch in your
[43:44.640 --> 43:57.940]  head it's tripping that comfort switch without any substance behind it at least Bloomberg you know he could have been said to like surely he had somebody coaching him on the pronunciations and stuff on that paper which meant okay Hey, he's got a Spanish-speaking friend.
[43:58.180 --> 44:07.840]  Maybe there's some chance that, you know, this Spanish-speaking person who's close to the mayor can mention something if something goes south or something is needed by my community.
[44:08.120 --> 44:12.400]  But this is just it being fed into, you know, Google Translate or something.
[44:12.760 --> 44:14.300]  And it has no soul.
[44:14.380 --> 44:16.040]  It has no actual intention behind it.
[44:16.140 --> 44:17.840]  It is just empty advertising.
[44:18.160 --> 44:19.540]  And I think it's deceptive.
[44:19.660 --> 44:24.420]  But, you know, what's funny is that we're all skipping over the robocall part of this and I'm not objecting to that.
[44:24.420 --> 44:28.440]  I mean, it used to be that people said, you know, he's not making a real phone call.
[44:28.540 --> 44:29.140]  That's a recording.
[44:29.240 --> 44:30.820]  You might think it's a real person, but it's not.
[44:30.920 --> 44:31.620]  That's deceptive.
[44:31.680 --> 44:32.900]  But now we accept that.
[44:33.000 --> 44:33.520]  That's okay.
[44:33.980 --> 44:36.320]  It's just that he's speaking a language he doesn't actually speak.
[44:36.400 --> 44:42.260]  And again, I believe Bloomberg would be doing that in a second if he had the opportunity, if he was still...
[44:43.440 --> 44:45.860]  I just wanted to add, I would take issue, Alex.
[44:45.900 --> 44:47.400]  I don't think it costs very much.
[44:47.400 --> 45:02.980]  I mean, the whole point of a lot of this stuff is it's pretty good now and it might be, like, equivalent to a couple watts, you know, just to process one language or, you know, once you have an imprint of his, a voice print of him.
[45:03.360 --> 45:08.500]  We could do off the hook in Mandarin for that Mandarin station in New York and that would be amazing.
[45:08.500 --> 45:13.620]  I'm as curious, though, to Alex's point, what really practically does it cost to do this?
[45:14.280 --> 45:15.680]  I would say cheap.
[45:15.900 --> 45:16.660]  I'm curious.
[45:16.860 --> 45:18.320]  I'm fascinated by the technology.
[45:18.320 --> 45:20.200]  I also want to know how accurate it is.
[45:21.060 --> 45:22.620]  So it's interesting.
[45:22.920 --> 45:28.560]  Hey, we have a letter that I'd like to get to and you can write letters to OTH at 2600.com.
[45:28.740 --> 45:30.820]  I'm sure tonight's show will generate many letters.
[45:31.080 --> 45:33.360]  And yes, feel free to express yourself.
[45:33.360 --> 45:35.040]  No content warning needed.
[45:35.040 --> 45:38.900]  Just let loose and be merciless.
[45:39.660 --> 45:43.060]  Hi to everyone at 2600 from a long-time listener and admirer.
[45:43.180 --> 45:44.320]  I live on the East Coast.
[45:44.320 --> 45:50.320]  Whenever I'm in New York City, I always listen to WBAI, Off the Hook, and your other show on WUSB, are favorites of mine.
[45:50.320 --> 45:58.060]  And I really appreciate all the work you put into making them in what is clearly a passion-driven endeavor, or one might say obsession.
[45:59.440 --> 46:02.120]  Well, regardless, the psychological terms aren't important right now.
[46:02.120 --> 46:06.960]  Now, most of the time, I listen to stream shows from your website, since I have an unusual schedule.
[46:07.420 --> 46:11.280]  And I love how well-designed, effective, and simple your site is.
[46:11.560 --> 46:15.320]  It reminds me of the early days of the Internet, which I think you'd agree were great.
[46:15.620 --> 46:21.540]  And, you know, I like this, because when people usually say how simple our site is, it's an insult.
[46:21.540 --> 46:28.200]  But this is a compliment, and that's how I feel about it, too, because you don't need a lot of bells and whistles to run a website.
[46:28.460 --> 46:36.280]  And all we're doing is putting our shows up on the website and making it fairly simple and functional.
[46:37.420 --> 46:40.320]  Anyway, I have some questions, which maybe you can answer if you'd like to.
[46:40.820 --> 46:43.180]  What is the story with the Off the Hook theme music?
[46:43.180 --> 46:44.240]  Who is it performed by?
[46:44.240 --> 46:45.340]  Well, actually, I can tell you that.
[46:45.620 --> 46:48.000]  It's performed by Big Audio Dynamite.
[46:49.380 --> 46:52.660]  Unlike most Big Audio Dynamite songs, though, it's not sung by Mick Jones.
[46:52.820 --> 46:53.940]  It's sung by Don Letts.
[46:54.800 --> 47:05.120]  And that song, for some reason, the listener goes on to say, honestly, I don't really even like it that much, but it's the harbinger of an hour.
[47:05.420 --> 47:09.200]  And these days, two hours of good talk radio, so how can I really complain?
[47:10.040 --> 47:12.060]  Yeah, well, it just kind of fit.
[47:12.060 --> 47:19.000]  It just kind of fit the Off the Hook tone, and it just became something that was affiliated with Off the Hook.
[47:19.220 --> 47:25.860]  And interesting, we'll be playing another piece by Don Letts' new solo album, which just came out.
[47:25.960 --> 47:27.760]  We'll do that as our outro in three minutes.
[47:30.180 --> 47:36.860]  The listener also says, I also love the most recent Off the Wall music created by Baltimore native Philip Glass.
[47:37.000 --> 47:38.340]  I did not know Philip Glass was from Baltimore.
[47:39.980 --> 47:43.680]  You might also find this weird anecdote from my past interesting.
[47:43.680 --> 47:47.400]  When I was 13 or 14 years old, I was very interested in phones.
[47:47.540 --> 47:50.340]  I would maintain lists of payphone numbers.
[47:50.640 --> 47:51.600]  Sounds familiar.
[47:52.140 --> 47:58.680]  And my favorite part of the local suburban Kansas library was the room full of phone books from all over the world.
[47:58.880 --> 48:08.100]  There was a company called the Musical Heritage Society at the time, in the early 80s, which had a subscription service, which sent out cassette tape recordings of classical music.
[48:08.360 --> 48:12.840]  I'd recently gotten a tape of Ralph Vaughn Williams' Fifth Symphony, which I really liked.
[48:12.900 --> 48:17.560]  And being the impetuous teenager I was, I decided to call him and tell him how much I liked it.
[48:17.900 --> 48:27.560]  I thought, yeah, through various means, I called the listing of Mrs. Ralph Vaughn Williams in the London phone book, and she answered.
[48:27.920 --> 48:32.960]  And I said something to the effect of, wow, your husband's music is so awesome, may I talk to him?
[48:32.960 --> 48:40.540]  And she answered in a very British way that she really appreciated that I liked his music, and sorry, he's been dead since the late 50s.
[48:40.880 --> 48:44.640]  And would that be all because it's really late and I'd like to go to bed?
[48:46.700 --> 48:50.540]  This week, I'm playing that piece in concerts, finally, as a professional.
[48:50.880 --> 48:52.000]  And it has been interesting to think about.
[48:52.160 --> 48:52.540]  Signed, David.
[48:52.660 --> 48:53.400]  David, what a great letter.
[48:53.600 --> 48:54.160]  What a great letter.
[48:54.160 --> 49:05.860]  It just sort of brings it all home and makes us realize that you never know who's out there, what they're interested in, what they're being inspired by, and the similar paths that you might be going down.
[49:06.020 --> 49:07.160]  So thank you so much for writing.
[49:07.360 --> 49:11.700]  And again, others who wish to write to us, othat2600.com.
[49:12.220 --> 49:14.440]  So many talented listeners out there.
[49:14.560 --> 49:15.080]  They really are.
[49:15.180 --> 49:18.420]  We love hearing your stories and your responses to what we're talking about.
[49:18.920 --> 49:27.660]  Now, we are going to be continuing our conversation or perhaps starting a brand new conversation over on Off the Hook Overtime over on YouTube.
[49:27.660 --> 49:31.380]  You can get the YouTube link on the 2600.com webpage.
[49:31.380 --> 49:34.160]  Just click on the little box up on the top of the page.
[49:34.760 --> 49:40.000]  Or just go to Channel 2600 on YouTube and join us there.
[49:40.040 --> 49:40.620]  You can call in.
[49:40.800 --> 49:45.140]  You can be part of the chat, which is running this week.
[49:45.220 --> 49:47.400]  And that's always a lot of fun.
[49:47.400 --> 49:56.100]  But as promised, we're going to go out with a piece from that new Don Lutz album who sings the intro to the Off the Hook theme.
[49:57.080 --> 49:58.600]  That's a song called Much Worse.
[49:58.840 --> 50:00.060]  It came out back in the 80s.
[50:00.980 --> 50:06.560]  But this just came out a couple of weeks ago from the Out of Sync CD.
[50:07.320 --> 50:09.400]  And this is called Wrong.
[50:09.400 --> 50:11.060]  See you next week.
[50:28.440 --> 50:41.480]  Another day Another dimension It's fair to say You got my attention
[50:51.820 --> 50:58.810]  Nobody learns To break convention Convention, convention
[51:01.840 --> 51:10.580]  Oh, come along Help us in the sun The sun was really wrong A
[51:19.700 --> 51:44.580]  state of the nation Desperately In my life It's all about Communification Peace and love Inspiration
[51:49.120 --> 51:56.000]  It's all coming on The compass is on, the sun is really bright.
[51:57.400 --> 51:59.900]  Oh, come along.
[52:00.460 --> 52:03.860]  The compass is on, the sun is going on.
[52:03.860 --> 52:06.680]  The compass is amazing.
[52:08.420 --> 52:09.980]  After greed?
[52:11.020 --> 52:11.960]  And hunger?
[52:12.720 --> 52:14.420]  For time to taste?
[52:25.870 --> 52:27.870]  More than that.
[52:29.150 --> 52:31.850]  I and I have got to mention.
[52:33.710 --> 52:35.830]  Change our ways.
[52:37.790 --> 52:39.510]  And our intention.
[52:53.090 --> 52:59.530]  Oh, come on with me sing the song... This song that's going on.
[53:00.470 --> 53:06.890]  Oh, come on with me sing the song... This song that's ringing around.
[53:39.010 --> 53:42.550]  This is the last one.
[54:12.410 --> 54:14.150]  Only contention.
[54:15.890 --> 54:17.930]  Just common sense.
[54:42.710 --> 54:45.290]  Oh, come along.
[54:45.890 --> 54:47.250]  Let me sing a song.
[54:50.420 --> 54:53.080]  Oh, come along.
[54:53.800 --> 54:55.140]  Let me sing a song.
[54:55.500 --> 54:57.020]  The sound is going on.
[54:58.560 --> 55:00.980]  Oh, come along.
[55:01.540 --> 55:02.980]  Let me sing a song.
[55:29.310 --> 55:31.030]  This is Ralph Pointer.
[55:31.410 --> 55:35.950]  Join me and others every Wednesday, 8 to 9 p.m.
[55:36.150 --> 55:41.110]  Eastern Time on WBAI 99.5 on your radio now.
[55:42.290 --> 55:58.350]  It would appear the human movement is such that at any moment in history, there are too few that understand possibilities of existence that would benefit all who inhabit this planet and are willing to act on this understanding.
[55:58.350 --> 56:01.650]  This program will feature that few.
[56:01.930 --> 56:06.590]  What are your views on these issues that impact your life today?
[56:06.870 --> 56:10.250]  What are your views on America today?
[56:10.250 --> 56:14.170]  What are your views on America's future?
[56:14.690 --> 56:15.830]  Can we talk?
[56:15.830 --> 56:21.070]  Call in, 212-209-2877.
[56:21.090 --> 56:23.370]  Wednesday, 8 to 9 p.m.
[56:23.470 --> 56:27.890]  on WBAI 99.5 on your radio now.
[56:27.890 --> 56:28.070]  What is this for a great game today?
[56:28.270 --> 56:28.410]  What do you see on the world?
[56:28.410 --> 56:28.510]  What is the most beautiful one?
[56:28.510 --> 56:28.570]  What?
[00:00.000 --> 00:03.320]  And welcome to everybody over on YouTube.
[00:04.300 --> 00:06.880]  Well, actually, it's not over on YouTube because we're on YouTube as well.
[00:07.040 --> 00:11.900]  So thanks for joining us on YouTube here on channel 2600 for Off the Hook Overtime.
[00:12.840 --> 00:13.900]  Kyle, did you make it okay?
[00:16.180 --> 00:17.500]  Sure, everything's fine.
[00:17.660 --> 00:19.060]  It just knocked over.
[00:19.340 --> 00:19.760]  Wow.
[00:20.480 --> 00:22.760]  That looked spectacular.
[00:23.380 --> 00:24.740]  You knocked over everything.
[00:24.980 --> 00:26.580]  I was just putting the phone down.
[00:27.000 --> 00:28.400]  I put the bottle down too.
[00:30.000 --> 00:31.360]  Headphones knocked over my microphone.
[00:31.600 --> 00:31.700]  Okay.
[00:31.960 --> 00:32.400]  Catastrophe.
[00:32.480 --> 00:32.840]  Yeah, I'm here.
[00:33.080 --> 00:34.040]  You didn't do that over the radio.
[00:34.320 --> 00:35.320]  And I stuck the landing.
[00:36.600 --> 00:37.280]  I'm here.
[00:37.380 --> 00:37.720]  Yes.
[00:37.980 --> 00:37.980]  Good.
[00:38.380 --> 00:40.760]  And we have Skype land.
[00:40.960 --> 00:42.020]  We have Rob.
[00:43.440 --> 00:43.880]  Hello.
[00:44.200 --> 00:44.720]  We are here.
[00:44.920 --> 00:45.620]  Where the hell is Alex?
[00:47.160 --> 00:48.860]  Alex will be back when he can.
[00:49.040 --> 00:51.360]  He is going from his workplace to his home.
[00:52.200 --> 00:54.060]  He's commuting during the show?
[00:54.660 --> 00:55.100]  Yes.
[00:55.220 --> 00:56.080]  He has responsibilities.
[00:56.720 --> 00:57.560]  This is a responsibility.
[00:57.620 --> 00:57.760]  Okay.
[00:57.800 --> 00:58.140]  You know what?
[00:58.140 --> 00:59.360]  We'll talk about this off air.
[01:00.000 --> 01:00.320]  I agree.
[01:00.420 --> 01:00.600]  Yes.
[01:00.940 --> 01:01.360]  Okay.
[01:02.000 --> 01:02.660]  Well then.
[01:03.660 --> 01:08.600]  That's a shame because the story I wanted to get his opinion on about hacktivism law.
[01:09.760 --> 01:10.740]  We'll get to it.
[01:10.960 --> 01:12.760]  We'll just get to it in a little bit, I guess.
[01:13.500 --> 01:14.240]  Hopefully he's there.
[01:14.400 --> 01:15.160]  Keep it in the stack.
[01:15.340 --> 01:15.480]  Yeah.
[01:15.760 --> 01:16.180]  Interesting.
[01:16.220 --> 01:16.960]  Interesting show.
[01:17.100 --> 01:17.800]  Good conversation.
[01:18.140 --> 01:21.980]  I have a feeling I'm going to be looking for a new Mastodon instance.
[01:22.320 --> 01:23.220]  But that's okay.
[01:23.260 --> 01:24.000]  It's all right.
[01:24.060 --> 01:25.000]  It's a learning process.
[01:25.000 --> 01:30.200]  I hold no ill... You know, I've never talked rudely to people.
[01:30.380 --> 01:33.220]  I always try and be... I mean, in my life, I certainly have.
[01:33.280 --> 01:35.640]  I'm saying in this particular set of circumstances.
[01:36.840 --> 01:41.580]  You know, I've made it clear when I've been mistaken or don't know something.
[01:42.560 --> 01:45.940]  I can't say it's always gone the same way in my direction, though.
[01:46.460 --> 01:51.800]  But if you have suggestions, you can email us.
[01:51.940 --> 01:55.800]  OTH at 2600.com at the Mastodon instance that you're happy with.
[01:56.020 --> 01:57.820]  A lot of them are closed, though.
[01:57.960 --> 01:59.540]  A lot of them you can't get accounts on.
[01:59.720 --> 02:00.880]  So there's that.
[02:01.100 --> 02:04.200]  And I think the reason I wound up on this one was because it was open.
[02:04.200 --> 02:05.900]  Or because I got invited, I think.
[02:06.820 --> 02:07.420]  I don't know.
[02:07.480 --> 02:08.440]  It's too much work.
[02:08.560 --> 02:09.360]  I mean, for God's sake.
[02:09.460 --> 02:10.620]  You know, Twitter was so simple.
[02:10.940 --> 02:12.280]  Of course, look what happened to it.
[02:13.640 --> 02:16.440]  Won't you please think of the children in the future?
[02:17.320 --> 02:17.680]  Why?
[02:17.760 --> 02:19.420]  Are there children reading these things?
[02:19.800 --> 02:21.640]  Well, it's all part of this.
[02:21.760 --> 02:22.700]  Children should have their own.
[02:22.960 --> 02:23.260]  You should be concerned.
[02:23.840 --> 02:24.940]  Have your own damn internet.
[02:25.260 --> 02:25.480]  Yeah.
[02:25.780 --> 02:26.480]  Get off our internet.
[02:26.640 --> 02:27.460]  Go on your internet.
[02:27.720 --> 02:31.280]  And, you know, it's like a school, you know?
[02:31.560 --> 02:33.120]  Middle school, you stay over there.
[02:33.280 --> 02:34.140]  High school's over there.
[02:34.200 --> 02:34.740]  I don't know.
[02:35.480 --> 02:40.100]  Okay, so in Canada, something rather weird happened.
[02:40.900 --> 02:42.420]  The time signal ended.
[02:42.560 --> 02:43.140]  Did you hear about this?
[02:43.400 --> 02:50.540]  A series of crackly pips and beeps that have been broadcast to radios across Canada.
[02:50.540 --> 02:58.500]  They've outlasted two monarchs, 13 prime ministers, 27 sessions of parliament, and all kinds of fractures to national unity.
[02:59.320 --> 03:03.560]  They've provided a quiet comfort to citizens abroad and inspired music and artworks.
[03:04.200 --> 03:06.640]  And I don't even know what it sounds like.
[03:07.060 --> 03:07.580]  Huh.
[03:07.700 --> 03:10.620]  I think I've heard a time signal from Canada.
[03:12.320 --> 03:13.540]  In fact, I know I have.
[03:13.620 --> 03:15.180]  I'm not sure if that's what this is talking about.
[03:15.520 --> 03:27.560]  But anyway, last week, after 84 years, Canada's public broadcaster announced the termination of its official time signal, abruptly ending the longest running radio program in the country's history.
[03:27.560 --> 03:29.120]  Yes, it's a radio program.
[03:29.120 --> 03:31.560]  It just goes beep, but it's still a radio program.
[03:32.020 --> 03:34.340]  Yeah, just like we are, technically.
[03:34.880 --> 03:43.300]  The news broke in a manner similar to the time signal overlooked amid a frenzy of larger, more globally relevant stories.
[03:44.260 --> 03:53.560]  The way it disappeared so unceremoniously really took people by surprise, said Craig Baird, host of the podcast Canadian History X.
[03:55.260 --> 03:57.240]  They missed the chance to say goodbye.
[03:57.300 --> 04:01.740]  It was like missing the series finale of a show that you've watched for years.
[04:01.860 --> 04:05.360]  I'm not sure how they would say goodbye if all they do is tell the time.
[04:06.200 --> 04:07.460]  Since November 5th...
[04:07.460 --> 04:08.100]  Remember the time, lady?
[04:08.660 --> 04:09.220]  What was it?
[04:09.300 --> 04:10.780]  9-3-6-1-2-1...
[04:10.780 --> 04:14.060]  No, 9-3-6-1-2-1-2 in New York was the old number.
[04:14.160 --> 04:16.140]  Then it turned into 9-7-6-1-2-1-2.
[04:16.320 --> 04:17.340]  Or is that the weather?
[04:17.660 --> 04:18.940]  No, I think it was...
[04:18.940 --> 04:20.600]  It might be 1-6-1-6.
[04:20.780 --> 04:21.900]  Do they even exist anymore?
[04:21.900 --> 04:23.800]  Are there 9-7-6 numbers?
[04:24.480 --> 04:25.760]  This is a question for Rebel.
[04:26.000 --> 04:26.760]  I have a phone.
[04:27.160 --> 04:27.640]  Maybe...
[04:27.640 --> 04:29.680]  No, no, because it might cost $50 to go.
[04:29.720 --> 04:30.900]  Yeah, let somebody else do it.
[04:30.980 --> 04:32.120]  But we can test this.
[04:32.640 --> 04:33.620]  We'll get an answer.
[04:35.340 --> 04:36.180]  Slow down.
[04:36.340 --> 04:39.660]  You don't want to bite off more telephony than you can handle.
[04:39.800 --> 04:40.740]  No, that's true.
[04:41.940 --> 04:51.500]  So yeah, since November 5th, 1939, CBC Radio 1 has broadcast the National Research Council time signal once a day.
[04:51.500 --> 04:54.660]  You know, I listen to CBC Radio 1, and somehow I've never heard this.
[04:56.040 --> 05:04.060]  And I guess it's not what I was thinking of, because what I was thinking of was a station that was always there broadcasting time beeps and things.
[05:05.020 --> 05:07.240]  I'll look into this and be a little more prepared.
[05:08.420 --> 05:20.860]  But basically, that particular once-a-day event advised listeners of the beginning of the long dash, and that would mark the beginning of the hour, 1 o'clock in Ontario, 10 in the morning in British Columbia.
[05:21.580 --> 05:22.460]  Oh, that's why.
[05:22.560 --> 05:25.280]  1 o'clock in Eastern time, way before I get up.
[05:25.280 --> 05:28.900]  Now, Canadians set their watches and even clocks to it.
[05:29.240 --> 05:30.700]  Trains were more punctual.
[05:30.900 --> 05:33.000]  Sailors could navigate more precisely.
[05:33.480 --> 05:39.560]  And as the time signal persisted over generations, it transformed into a cultural bedrock of the country.
[05:40.020 --> 05:46.160]  Even if you weren't a frequent listener to the CBC, most people have heard it at least once in their lifetime, said Baird.
[05:46.400 --> 05:51.480]  And so while it persisted for so long, it's not something people thought about much until it was gone.
[05:52.220 --> 05:53.400]  Ain't that the truth?
[05:53.680 --> 05:54.700]  So many things.
[05:55.260 --> 05:58.120]  As Canadians make sense of the loss...
[05:58.120 --> 05:59.840]  Wow, this is a serious story here.
[06:00.660 --> 06:03.420]  A sense of grief and frustration has taken hold.
[06:03.880 --> 06:12.640]  Listeners to Baird's show shared memories, including one woman who trained her dog to sit for a treat when the long dash was broadcast.
[06:13.200 --> 06:21.540]  An informal poll of his listeners and followers on social media found the vast majority wanted the time signal back, if only to say goodbye.
[06:21.880 --> 06:25.100]  I'm not exactly sure, Canada, what's going on here.
[06:25.320 --> 06:26.740]  You want to say goodbye to a beep?
[06:27.420 --> 06:28.340]  I guess.
[06:28.600 --> 06:29.180]  Sure, why not?
[06:29.440 --> 06:30.920]  I'm not sure how we're going to pull that off.
[06:31.480 --> 06:42.460]  You can't say a noise is your friend, said Saab Boothrod, a British Columbia-based artist, but it was a sound that resonated and it touched many people at the same time.
[06:42.460 --> 06:44.920]  It brought us together like few things can.
[06:45.980 --> 06:55.800]  For Boothrod, the time signal, a piece of auditory punctuation mark that has remained a constant over the years, or was a punctuation mark.
[06:55.980 --> 07:01.640]  When she began selling a tea towel printed with the long dash, they quickly became a bestseller.
[07:01.940 --> 07:08.320]  I had no idea it was going to catch on, but it means a lot to a lot of Canadians, even those outside the country.
[07:08.480 --> 07:09.780]  It's something we can hang on to.
[07:10.620 --> 07:27.480]  But in 2019, as the public broadcaster celebrated the anniversary, 80th anniversary of the time signal, journalist Lawrence Wall, announcer of time signal in Ottawa, told the CBC he didn't envision the network changing the signal or, heaven forbid, dropping it fully.
[07:28.000 --> 07:33.900]  People still like to listen to it, and I still run into people who say, aren't you the guy who does the time signal?
[07:34.700 --> 07:37.080]  Not, aren't you the guy who does the news in Ottawa?
[07:37.780 --> 07:42.500]  So it's that time signal that really resonates with them, and I think it always will.
[07:43.500 --> 07:55.320]  Another broadcaster, Stefan Rukovina, posted that when he was asked to record the preamble, the famous long dash line, I really felt like I'd made it.
[07:56.380 --> 07:58.820]  Wow, that's somewhat of a low bar.
[08:00.040 --> 08:08.580]  It was the broadcaster's gradual shift from over-the-air radio signals to satellite and internet-based transmissions that mark the end of the time signal.
[08:08.580 --> 08:16.180]  We share the nostalgia that many people have towards the daily time announcement, but Canadians also depend on us for accurate information.
[08:16.320 --> 08:26.380]  CBC spokesperson Emma Iannetta said in a statement, with all of the different distribution methods we use today, we can no longer ensure that the time announcement can be accurate.
[08:27.200 --> 08:29.460]  I'm not sure what changed, but okay.
[08:29.820 --> 08:39.900]  In one instance, the CBC had to drop the 10 seconds of silence in the preamble to the time signal because silence confused modern systems.
[08:40.800 --> 08:44.780]  Yeah, that sounds like a problem with the modern systems, not with the time signal.
[08:46.200 --> 09:00.500]  The NRC, which is not the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, it's some organization in Canada, which I should know, they said the installation of digital radio transmitters in 2018 led to a delay of up to nine seconds.
[09:01.220 --> 09:05.860]  The NRC says, cesium atomic clocks remain the world's best timekeepers.
[09:06.320 --> 09:13.960]  A cesium fountain clock in the United States, NIST-F2, is accurate within one second over 300 million years.
[09:14.140 --> 09:16.600]  Just a little asterisk to that.
[09:17.100 --> 09:19.040]  I believe that's the kind of clock we have.
[09:19.200 --> 09:21.600]  We have an atomic clock.
[09:21.600 --> 09:22.860]  That's how it labels itself.
[09:22.860 --> 09:30.460]  It's the only clock in the entire complex that does not have the right time.
[09:30.560 --> 09:36.620]  And the reason for that is because it has to receive a time signal.
[09:36.960 --> 09:39.340]  And that time signal comes from Colorado.
[09:40.280 --> 09:43.640]  And you cannot receive that signal inside.
[09:43.640 --> 09:45.240]  You can only receive it outside.
[09:46.540 --> 09:48.500]  So it doesn't receive the signal.
[09:48.500 --> 09:52.580]  And the clock gets basically slower and slower.
[09:52.700 --> 09:57.620]  Not slower, but just it falls off by up to two minutes in a couple of months.
[09:58.020 --> 10:04.060]  So literally, every month, we have to take that clock outside so it gets the signal and stays accurate.
[10:04.160 --> 10:10.700]  So that's not exactly what you would envision with an atomic clock being accurate within one second over 300 million years.
[10:10.760 --> 10:13.420]  Yeah, as long as we keep going outside and getting the signal from Colorado.
[10:13.420 --> 10:14.860]  Well, that's not the clock.
[10:15.080 --> 10:16.000]  That's a receiver.
[10:16.500 --> 10:17.240]  In the clock.
[10:17.500 --> 10:18.020]  Well, right.
[10:18.020 --> 10:23.580]  But it's synced with a larger clock installation that is a scientific instrument.
[10:24.160 --> 10:25.180]  That clock is accurate.
[10:25.380 --> 10:25.800]  Yeah.
[10:26.000 --> 10:28.040]  But I'm not going to drive out to Colorado to get the time.
[10:28.080 --> 10:28.280]  Right.
[10:28.320 --> 10:31.380]  You're talking about the device that the consumer has.
[10:31.680 --> 10:34.420]  Oh, so you're saying the clock is NISTF2.
[10:35.580 --> 10:36.280]  That's in Colorado.
[10:36.400 --> 10:37.120]  No, it's not.
[10:37.340 --> 10:38.300]  Wherever that happens to be.
[10:38.460 --> 10:40.160]  That might be in the Naval Observatory.
[10:40.360 --> 10:40.620]  Yeah.
[10:40.880 --> 10:42.040]  We're going to get all kinds of corrections.
[10:42.040 --> 10:48.460]  Well, and we have a network clock that is probably tuned to one of those cesium waterfall clocks.
[10:48.460 --> 10:49.700]  The network clock works well.
[10:49.860 --> 10:50.420]  You know what?
[10:50.420 --> 10:52.120]  I'm arguing against what I'm saying here.
[10:52.420 --> 10:53.960]  I'm arguing for digital technology.
[10:54.320 --> 10:55.620]  But it does work well.
[10:55.620 --> 10:59.160]  Well, it's a different system, and it's been well-developed.
[10:59.180 --> 11:05.360]  I mean, it's mature, and it's used widely in switching and routing and networks that need it and rely on it.
[11:05.380 --> 11:05.620]  You know what?
[11:05.620 --> 11:07.920]  I like the digital system, but I also like the old system.
[11:07.920 --> 11:11.220]  So bring the damn time signal back, please, CBC.
[11:12.660 --> 11:18.740]  Boothroyd said the decision by CBC is puzzling, especially because most Canadians no longer set their clocks by the signal.
[11:19.240 --> 11:22.580]  Instead, the pause was a moment of respite in a busy day.
[11:22.780 --> 11:24.760]  There's a beautiful heaviness to the time signal.
[11:25.020 --> 11:26.120]  It makes us stop.
[11:26.240 --> 11:26.880]  We need to stop.
[11:26.980 --> 11:27.760]  And that's a good thing.
[11:28.080 --> 11:29.780]  We're in a world that moves so fast.
[11:29.960 --> 11:31.580]  Technology is the reason we don't have it anymore.
[11:31.580 --> 11:37.040]  But I wonder, what is technology offering us to replace what we've lost?
[11:38.740 --> 11:39.140]  Wow.
[11:39.220 --> 11:40.000]  That was from The Guardian.
[11:40.380 --> 11:43.800]  And boy, they really dive into a story when they start.
[11:44.120 --> 11:45.620]  The Canadian time signal.
[11:45.740 --> 11:49.240]  I'm going to try and find an audio recording of that so we can share that with listeners.
[11:49.880 --> 11:50.320]  I don't know.
[11:50.360 --> 11:51.520]  Has anybody ever heard this?
[11:51.640 --> 11:52.320]  Oh, Alex, you're back.
[11:52.380 --> 11:52.760]  Welcome back.
[11:56.960 --> 12:04.820]  This is a really sweet story, I think, because it is something that generations of Canadians have had as part of the background in their daily lives.
[12:05.140 --> 12:11.340]  And it reminds me slightly of many years ago on this program, we spoke about the end of...
[12:11.340 --> 12:19.080]  We were speaking about historical clock network services that existed in this country, like back in the 1930s, I think, or 50s or whatever.
[12:19.080 --> 12:30.940]  But it was the history of those early, like basically subscription-type services where a master company would have a connection to clocks in like a school or an office building or something.
[12:31.080 --> 12:33.980]  And they would check the time with like some sort of central device.
[12:34.360 --> 12:39.340]  And I don't know if those were wired or wireless situations, but...
[12:39.900 --> 12:45.220]  I remember that in my school, the clock would stop at two minutes, too.
[12:45.220 --> 12:47.180]  And it would just sit there for a minute.
[12:47.360 --> 12:50.300]  And then when that minute was through, it would jump ahead.
[12:50.540 --> 12:51.660]  Did it do that for you?
[12:52.560 --> 12:54.620]  I seem to remember something like this, yeah.
[12:54.980 --> 12:58.400]  And there were lots of these old systems like still installed in buildings.
[12:58.400 --> 13:02.560]  But, of course, the service that they would connect to no longer exists.
[13:02.760 --> 13:06.460]  And I think then you're just, you know, you've got a regular clock.
[13:06.460 --> 13:11.380]  But it's always a bit interesting when something that...
[13:11.380 --> 13:19.660]  Even something that is so superseded by modern technology still has to be switched off and come to an end like this.
[13:19.700 --> 13:23.180]  And I could see why they miss it and want to, in some fashion, say goodbye.
[13:24.420 --> 13:25.140]  I don't know.
[13:25.240 --> 13:30.460]  I feel like we're just letting go of too many things just because we feel we have to move on.
[13:30.580 --> 13:33.640]  And, you know, we can move on and also hold on, right?
[13:33.640 --> 13:44.000]  Yeah, but the modernization and the advantage of those newer transmitters basically disrupted the accuracy of that older system.
[13:44.000 --> 13:47.540]  So it has been sort of superseded in a way.
[13:47.920 --> 13:52.640]  And they're waxing poetic and celebrating its history.
[13:52.640 --> 13:57.940]  But it's not really the best solution going forward.
[13:58.140 --> 13:58.840]  It's purpose.
[14:00.660 --> 14:02.140]  There's so many other forms.
[14:02.140 --> 14:09.200]  I think that's the other sort of line or theme and thread in the article.
[14:09.420 --> 14:09.880]  I'm done.
[14:10.140 --> 14:14.780]  Yeah, well, you know, I found the signal over on YouTube.
[14:15.060 --> 14:17.100]  So, yeah, we're on YouTube and we're playing YouTube.
[14:17.100 --> 14:24.880]  So let's take a listen to what supposedly is the NRC time signal on CBC Radio 1.
[14:24.880 --> 14:26.160]  It says off by one second.
[14:26.300 --> 14:26.980]  Let's see what that means.
[14:26.980 --> 14:29.920]  National Research Council official time signal.
[14:30.140 --> 14:35.440]  The beginning of the long dash indicates exactly 10 o'clock Pacific Daylight Saving Time.
[14:48.870 --> 14:50.030]  Okay, I guess that was it.
[14:50.130 --> 14:51.050]  That's the whole thing.
[14:51.450 --> 14:51.890]  Wow.
[14:52.110 --> 14:53.030]  I've never heard that.
[14:53.370 --> 14:54.410]  I've never heard that.
[14:54.510 --> 14:55.730]  And I guess now I never will.
[14:55.910 --> 15:01.390]  So it's like pulse tones and then a bit of like a metronome tick and then that longer tone.
[15:01.750 --> 15:02.190]  Uh-huh.
[15:03.070 --> 15:03.830]  It's interesting.
[15:04.050 --> 15:13.090]  I can see that being comforting and very much reminds me of Top of the Hour when you're watching BBC or listening to one of their channels.
[15:13.090 --> 15:20.830]  They always, I think, cut to a chime or it's part of their broadcast workflow.
[15:20.830 --> 15:28.130]  They can activate it to queue time and people can then adjust their clocks accordingly and reliably.
[15:29.050 --> 15:29.490]  CHU.
[15:29.670 --> 15:31.350]  That was the station I was thinking of.
[15:31.650 --> 15:34.170]  That is a time state.
[15:34.270 --> 15:35.350]  I don't know if it's still on the air.
[15:36.090 --> 15:37.110]  I'll try to find it.
[15:37.250 --> 15:38.970]  But I don't know if they stream, though.
[15:38.970 --> 15:40.510]  And I don't know what...
[15:40.510 --> 15:41.810]  Okay, wait, I just looked it up.
[15:43.110 --> 15:51.890]  It's at 3330 kilohertz, 7335 kilohertz, and 14670 kilohertz.
[15:52.590 --> 15:57.910]  So if you have a shortwave radio, you can find that station and listen to it.
[15:59.530 --> 16:01.770]  And I'm going to try and find it, see if it streams online.
[16:01.850 --> 16:05.910]  But it would be kind of self-defeating streaming online because the time wouldn't be accurate then.
[16:09.200 --> 16:09.840]  It's true.
[16:11.460 --> 16:13.220]  Really quickly, two things.
[16:13.660 --> 16:26.160]  Number one, I found an article from the New York Times from March of 2002 saying that at that time, AT&T was stopping billing for new 900 numbers.
[16:26.600 --> 16:30.780]  And then they were stopping billing for existing 900 numbers at the end of 2002.
[16:31.160 --> 16:32.400]  So I think that was...
[16:32.400 --> 16:37.220]  Apparently, Verizon was the only carrier for a long time that was still charging for them.
[16:37.220 --> 16:40.780]  So piece number one, they kind of hit a sharp decline about 20 years ago.
[16:40.780 --> 16:46.100]  And also, greetings to the 37 people who are currently hanging with us on YouTube.
[16:47.140 --> 16:49.580]  Greetings especially to our chat stalwarts.
[16:49.580 --> 16:51.240]  We're always happy to have you here.
[16:53.060 --> 16:57.060]  Thank you to Tim in Connecticut for letting us know that we sound good.
[16:57.240 --> 17:02.760]  And thank you to everybody for the warm welcome back because we haven't had the live chat in three weeks.
[17:02.760 --> 17:05.120]  So happy you all are here.
[17:05.340 --> 17:08.340]  Please feel free to share with us any questions you have.
[17:09.000 --> 17:10.220]  Want to try something new?
[17:10.300 --> 17:19.660]  And if there's a question you'd like to specifically ask any of us on the radio, please preface your question with either the letters A-I-R or O-T-H.
[17:20.120 --> 17:23.720]  And let's see if we can do a better job of figuring out what needs to go to air.
[17:24.640 --> 17:25.960]  So that's what we're going to try tonight.
[17:26.620 --> 17:27.560]  And thanks, everybody.
[17:28.400 --> 17:28.980]  Yes, indeed.
[17:29.220 --> 17:32.140]  And I understand we have a phone call even though we didn't get off the phone number.
[17:32.220 --> 17:32.760]  Is that right, Carl?
[17:33.300 --> 17:36.120]  Yeah, we do have a phone call and they are still connected.
[17:36.500 --> 17:39.020]  Go easy, though, because that might be one of those...
[17:39.020 --> 17:43.700]  It might be like a really spicy line by this point because they've been waiting a while.
[17:43.840 --> 17:45.860]  Yeah, but we didn't ask people to call yet.
[17:46.160 --> 17:46.940]  They're still there.
[17:46.980 --> 17:47.580]  What do you want me to do?
[17:47.680 --> 17:48.000]  Hang up on.
[17:48.000 --> 17:53.020]  I'm just saying you can't be upset at us for taking a long time to pick up when we didn't ask for calls yet.
[17:53.140 --> 17:55.280]  So it's a courtesy that we're going to this line.
[17:55.500 --> 17:56.240]  Just watch it.
[17:56.380 --> 17:56.640]  Watch it.
[17:56.720 --> 17:57.780]  Nobody knows the phone number.
[17:58.040 --> 17:58.980]  Maybe we changed it.
[17:59.260 --> 17:59.700]  Good evening.
[17:59.840 --> 18:00.620]  You're on off the go for time.
[18:00.700 --> 18:00.920]  Go ahead.
[18:02.580 --> 18:02.900]  Hello.
[18:03.360 --> 18:03.600]  Hi.
[18:03.680 --> 18:04.040]  How are you doing?
[18:04.480 --> 18:05.780]  I'm Santiago from Madrid.
[18:07.160 --> 18:07.400]  Sorry?
[18:07.500 --> 18:09.100]  My friend from Spain.
[18:09.600 --> 18:10.320]  Oh, okay.
[18:10.400 --> 18:10.720]  Santiago.
[18:11.200 --> 18:11.440]  Uh-huh.
[18:12.140 --> 18:12.640]  How are you doing?
[18:12.860 --> 18:16.160]  The quality of this call is not very good.
[18:16.160 --> 18:20.840]  From time to time, I heard, like, a garblet instead of words.
[18:21.040 --> 18:23.680]  So hopefully it will go okay.
[18:24.280 --> 18:25.040]  Can you hear me well?
[18:25.520 --> 18:26.440]  Yeah, we hear you fine.
[18:26.800 --> 18:28.480]  Hopefully people on YouTube can hear.
[18:28.640 --> 18:30.600]  If not, tell us in the chat.
[18:30.600 --> 18:33.020]  But I'm pretty sure all the levels are good this week.
[18:34.500 --> 18:35.340]  Okay, cool.
[18:35.440 --> 18:35.580]  Yes.
[18:35.800 --> 18:38.340]  You were saying very good on YouTube.
[18:38.600 --> 18:41.920]  It was just when I joined by phone, like, 15 minutes ago.
[18:42.360 --> 18:43.500]  And I'm not mad.
[18:43.840 --> 18:45.920]  I'm grateful that you didn't hang out.
[18:46.220 --> 18:47.740]  And that's cool.
[18:48.220 --> 19:00.180]  So I'm coming now to announce that the automatic transcripts of the program are finished after 20 days, and that I'm going to publish the website.
[19:00.480 --> 19:03.340]  It is a web 1.0 website.
[19:03.900 --> 19:05.180]  So, like, all the school website.
[19:05.460 --> 19:05.900]  Uh-huh.
[19:05.900 --> 19:08.580]  And the domain is offthehook.cc.
[19:09.420 --> 19:10.440]  Offthehook.cc.
[19:11.180 --> 19:12.140]  So, okay.
[19:12.260 --> 19:12.480]  That's easy.
[19:12.820 --> 19:17.380]  What you've done is you've made transcripts of the show for what period?
[19:19.860 --> 19:23.520]  Since 1989 up until last month.
[19:23.880 --> 19:24.580]  Oh, my God.
[19:24.740 --> 19:25.320]  How did you do that?
[19:25.320 --> 19:26.020]  Okay.
[19:26.420 --> 19:33.280]  Well, you know, I don't know how accurate they are, but it should be interesting to see that.
[19:34.620 --> 19:37.260]  You'll find out very soon.
[19:37.460 --> 19:43.240]  So, it took, like, it did, like, 135 shows per day.
[19:44.160 --> 19:46.320]  And the GPU was working 100%.
[19:46.320 --> 19:49.140]  So, it was, like, full-time for 20 days.
[19:49.740 --> 19:54.880]  And, yeah, you let me know how the quality it is because I just made some random pieces.
[19:54.880 --> 19:57.140]  I'm fascinated by the technology involved here.
[19:57.480 --> 20:03.220]  And, you know, I'm sure we'll find some comical lapses because that's inevitable.
[20:03.440 --> 20:10.860]  But the fact that it's something, it'll benefit a lot of people that, well, people who can't hear for one thing.
[20:11.900 --> 20:12.880]  But it should be interesting.
[20:13.120 --> 20:17.980]  And maybe we can, you know, offer corrections when we have the time to do that.
[20:18.140 --> 20:20.020]  But there's an awful lot of shows out there.
[20:20.020 --> 20:22.100]  I can't believe it only took you a month to do this.
[20:23.940 --> 20:28.320]  So, you can try to do the correction, but it will be, like, a lot of work.
[20:28.340 --> 20:29.640]  So, I think it's not worth it.
[20:29.860 --> 20:31.100]  So, let's see.
[20:31.260 --> 20:33.840]  So, I'm going to publish right now.
[20:34.020 --> 20:35.320]  So, it should be live now.
[20:35.540 --> 20:35.860]  Okay.
[20:36.440 --> 20:41.160]  Now, how does it work as far as identifying who's speaking or does it not do that?
[20:42.940 --> 20:43.900]  I'm sorry, can you repeat?
[20:44.180 --> 20:45.120]  Does it identify?
[20:45.440 --> 20:47.500]  I mean, I don't see how it could identify who is speaking.
[20:48.520 --> 20:49.200]  Oh, no, no.
[20:49.200 --> 20:51.260]  Yeah, it just gives whatever words.
[20:51.800 --> 20:54.000]  Future AI.
[20:55.100 --> 20:56.740]  Maybe we'll be able to do that.
[20:56.900 --> 20:59.540]  But right now, it's just, like, a long text.
[20:59.820 --> 21:00.240]  Okay.
[21:00.400 --> 21:03.000]  I want to see how it handles Eric Adams speaking Spanish.
[21:03.020 --> 21:04.040]  I want to see what it does there.
[21:05.620 --> 21:08.300]  Well, it was, like, something very robotic.
[21:08.580 --> 21:23.280]  And I was thinking, if I received a robot call talking like that, like a robot in Spanish from a person that doesn't speak Spanish, I would laugh and I would hang up and not vote for that person most probably.
[21:24.920 --> 21:25.400]  Wow.
[21:25.520 --> 21:31.900]  Well, this is a good example of what off-the-hook listeners can accomplish when they just take on a project.
[21:31.900 --> 21:39.160]  And we welcome that because it's technological innovation and just playing around with technology.
[21:39.360 --> 21:39.820]  That's what we do.
[21:40.020 --> 21:41.980]  That's what we always strive for.
[21:42.260 --> 21:43.480]  And sometimes it works.
[21:43.560 --> 21:44.320]  Sometimes it doesn't.
[21:44.440 --> 21:46.040]  But that's how you learn.
[21:46.040 --> 21:46.860]  And that's how you move forward.
[21:47.320 --> 21:48.160]  Yeah, that's amazing.
[21:48.520 --> 21:49.020]  Yeah, indeed.
[21:50.060 --> 21:50.440]  Indeed.
[21:50.600 --> 21:53.900]  And if you want, I can tell you a bit more about this project.
[21:54.520 --> 21:55.180]  Sure, go ahead.
[21:55.220 --> 21:55.640]  What I did.
[21:55.880 --> 21:56.160]  Go ahead.
[21:57.080 --> 22:00.140]  So, first, I tried the Google Programmer search engine.
[22:00.720 --> 22:04.600]  So, it's the thing that inserts Google onto your website.
[22:04.600 --> 22:06.460]  And you can search using Google.
[22:06.700 --> 22:08.480]  But it had a big promise.
[22:08.640 --> 22:13.080]  So, it only indexes what it wants and when it wants.
[22:13.280 --> 22:13.920]  So, I tried.
[22:14.160 --> 22:15.780]  I saw that it was not working.
[22:15.780 --> 22:16.860]  It was very slow.
[22:16.980 --> 22:20.580]  And so, I decided to implement the search function on my web server.
[22:21.160 --> 22:22.720]  And it's working fine.
[22:23.000 --> 22:29.100]  So, you can search using quotes to search for a specific term.
[22:29.100 --> 22:32.060]  So, for example, you can search for entire state in quotes.
[22:32.340 --> 22:35.280]  And it will only show results about the building, for example.
[22:35.840 --> 22:41.940]  And I also modified the creation date for the text files.
[22:42.240 --> 22:43.700]  So, for the transcripts.
[22:43.900 --> 22:50.260]  So, the idea is that the creation date for the files, it will match the date when the program was made.
[22:50.480 --> 22:55.000]  So, you can search by date and order results by date.
[22:55.000 --> 22:59.120]  Maybe you want to see the latest, the most recent matches.
[23:00.580 --> 23:01.260]  Yeah.
[23:02.120 --> 23:10.700]  I wrote some scripts to automatically download the MP3s and do the transcripts, update the website, and index everything.
[23:11.220 --> 23:15.440]  And those scripts will run automatically on the second each month.
[23:16.060 --> 23:21.120]  So, on the second each month, it will automatically process the previous month.
[23:21.120 --> 23:25.060]  And the website should be automatically updated.
[23:25.460 --> 23:26.680]  Let's see how it goes.
[23:27.440 --> 23:30.300]  And, you know, I'm looking at offthehook.cc right now.
[23:30.400 --> 23:36.800]  And just like the listener wrote to us, it's simple and it's, you know, it works.
[23:36.800 --> 23:38.860]  And that's what a website should do.
[23:39.060 --> 23:41.080]  And, yes, I like the look of it.
[23:42.500 --> 23:43.060]  Cool.
[23:43.960 --> 23:47.100]  So, yeah, I hope this will be useful to you and the listeners.
[23:47.560 --> 23:53.280]  If Google decides to index more of this site, it can also attract new listeners, you know.
[23:53.440 --> 23:58.720]  People that search for a specific topic and find this site and discover offthehook.
[23:58.920 --> 24:01.480]  So, I hope it will be useful.
[24:02.320 --> 24:02.840]  Wow.
[24:03.700 --> 24:05.180]  This is truly amazing.
[24:05.540 --> 24:06.140]  That's great.
[24:06.260 --> 24:10.820]  It's sort of a rough silhouette of what the conversation has been over time.
[24:10.820 --> 24:13.600]  And I love that you just set up, like, batches.
[24:13.660 --> 24:21.800]  And it sounds like you threw it all at, like, a graphics processing unit and just let it go and then checked up on it.
[24:22.200 --> 24:25.040]  Was that a part of some of the scripting that you did for this?
[24:26.640 --> 24:27.440]  So, yes.
[24:28.260 --> 24:34.940]  I did a specific script to first to download all the history, all the MP3s, and process it.
[24:35.200 --> 24:42.960]  And then I wrote another script that will also process, but it will do more things, like updating the website, indexing the...
[24:43.480 --> 24:45.260]  So you can use the search.
[24:46.980 --> 24:51.780]  I just looked up the word elephant to see when that appeared.
[24:52.440 --> 24:58.320]  And the show from actually this year, February 15th, and the quote is this.
[24:58.700 --> 25:00.460]  I say negative all the time.
[25:00.460 --> 25:01.820]  It brings everyone down.
[25:02.060 --> 25:03.020]  Affirmative, affirmative.
[25:03.260 --> 25:03.960]  I like affirmative.
[25:04.220 --> 25:05.480]  It's much more positive.
[25:05.840 --> 25:07.620]  What are some other differences?
[25:07.620 --> 25:08.900]  There are no more elephants.
[25:09.120 --> 25:09.720]  Oh, that's right.
[25:09.820 --> 25:12.280]  And there is only one sort of dance, the robot.
[25:12.280 --> 25:14.600]  No, the robot boogie as well.
[25:15.060 --> 25:15.880]  Oh, true.
[25:16.120 --> 25:17.140]  There are two dances.
[25:17.860 --> 25:19.800]  Okay, I don't know when we said this.
[25:20.020 --> 25:21.600]  Now I have to find out.
[25:22.100 --> 25:27.480]  This is, I think, where Rob and Gila had mentioned that this takes curation.
[25:27.680 --> 25:29.540]  And as I said, a rough silhouette.
[25:29.820 --> 25:31.220]  No, I like it like this.
[25:32.760 --> 25:33.720]  Pretty hallucinating.
[25:33.880 --> 25:34.520]  This will be fun.
[25:35.000 --> 25:36.040]  As you can see, it's not perfect.
[25:37.100 --> 25:40.720]  But I think it's got rough duel most of the time.
[25:43.000 --> 25:43.400]  Wow.
[25:44.540 --> 25:45.160]  Yes, Rob?
[25:46.600 --> 25:47.900]  I'm looking at this right now.
[25:48.080 --> 25:48.980]  And it is...
[25:48.980 --> 25:52.620]  I can already tell I'm going to have a lot of fun with this.
[25:53.480 --> 25:54.780]  You know, there are some pickups.
[25:54.880 --> 25:57.920]  I'm getting some NGINX errors on recent years and things like that.
[25:58.060 --> 26:01.140]  But I love that there is a text search.
[26:02.120 --> 26:07.980]  Because you can do things like, you know, I wonder on what episode we talked about such and such a thing.
[26:08.180 --> 26:08.880]  Put it in.
[26:08.880 --> 26:20.300]  And then even if the transcript itself isn't perfect, we have a show date to then go into the audio archives and find that episode and go back and have a listen.
[26:20.580 --> 26:33.640]  And so I can see this being a very interesting tool for, you know, just researching things, you know, seeing when things happened, historical stuff, when we had certain guests on, things like that.
[26:33.640 --> 26:39.440]  Well, Rob, just to clarify, we do have summations of all the shows online on 2600.com.
[26:39.580 --> 26:42.760]  But this is a transcript of the actual word spoken or supposedly.
[26:43.060 --> 26:46.580]  So this, yeah, this could be like when we talked about elephants or whatever.
[26:46.940 --> 26:50.560]  It'll be a lot more specific and particular.
[26:51.560 --> 26:52.340]  Yeah, definitely.
[26:52.580 --> 26:57.960]  So, yeah, this is a very interesting piece of work here.
[26:57.960 --> 27:05.580]  And I think we all really appreciate that you went to all this trouble and that you're putting it up here and everything for folks to use.
[27:07.780 --> 27:08.280]  You're welcome.
[27:08.540 --> 27:09.900]  You like the site.
[27:10.200 --> 27:10.520]  Yes.
[27:10.960 --> 27:12.840]  And can't wait to see what you do next.
[27:13.400 --> 27:14.380]  You kept your word.
[27:14.600 --> 27:15.060]  Yeah, you did.
[27:15.060 --> 27:16.400]  You did what you said you were going to do.
[27:19.040 --> 27:22.600]  Well, regarding next, I have some suggestions.
[27:23.040 --> 27:25.240]  So, talking about the Mastodon incident.
[27:25.620 --> 27:26.180]  Yes, sure.
[27:26.440 --> 27:37.140]  If there is a volunteer that can write the rules and guidelines and moderate the instance, I can set up another Mastodon instance.
[27:37.140 --> 27:46.440]  I already have one on my server, so I can set up another one for 2600 or whatever and keep the software updated and so on.
[27:46.580 --> 27:50.040]  But, yeah, there is someone to moderate.
[27:50.340 --> 27:51.740]  Yeah, it sounds like a lot of work.
[27:51.800 --> 27:57.640]  And I just want to make it clear that I do not begrudge the people that put in all the time.
[27:57.640 --> 28:13.380]  I mean, I know it's a thankless job, and I hope my critiques before were not seen as criticizing them unfairly or just basically these are growing pains, and I hope to be part of the discussion and make something better.
[28:14.900 --> 28:23.900]  Yeah, it's good that you always have this last resort of setting up your own Mastodon incident with your own rules or whatever.
[28:23.900 --> 28:28.760]  So, that's always an option, and you can migrate your followers.
[28:29.100 --> 28:30.040]  So, you can migrate.
[28:30.480 --> 28:36.820]  If you still have control of the previous account, you can migrate your followers to your new server.
[28:37.020 --> 28:37.980]  So, that's good.
[28:38.280 --> 28:48.540]  Yeah, you know, we've done things like this so many times, running our own bulletin board, basically just, you know, thinking we can do a better job ourselves, and it just drives us crazy.
[28:48.740 --> 28:50.260]  It takes up so much time.
[28:50.260 --> 28:55.560]  We have a tab open for spinning up the, you know, all that it takes.
[28:55.740 --> 28:57.140]  You know, the instructions are very good.
[28:57.300 --> 28:57.760]  They're clear.
[28:58.000 --> 29:03.840]  It's very similar to other things we've built before, but we have a lot of projects and responsibilities as is.
[29:04.560 --> 29:06.440]  So, it is an option, though.
[29:08.700 --> 29:09.160]  Wow.
[29:09.680 --> 29:11.080]  All right, listeners, great hearing from you.
[29:11.220 --> 29:18.540]  Please stay in touch, and we will definitely let you know if we see any issues with this or have any suggestions.
[29:20.040 --> 29:20.800]  Yeah, sure.
[29:21.280 --> 29:24.140]  You have an email to contact?
[29:24.440 --> 29:26.960]  Yes, O-T-H at 2600.com.
[29:27.620 --> 29:32.780]  No, I mean, sorry, I mean that you have my email to contact me if you want.
[29:33.040 --> 29:33.660]  Yes, we do.
[29:33.660 --> 29:36.140]  And this site is right there.
[29:36.400 --> 29:42.000]  Yeah, we might have some questions behind the scenes, and we'll share what we find in exploring the site.
[29:42.000 --> 29:46.860]  But thank you very much, and we'll definitely be in touch with what people get out of it.
[29:46.940 --> 29:50.360]  And again, the URL for listeners, offthehook.cc.
[29:50.680 --> 29:52.120]  And have fun.
[29:53.040 --> 29:53.920]  Play around with that.
[29:54.000 --> 29:54.720]  That's awesome.
[29:54.820 --> 29:55.300]  Thank you again.
[29:56.380 --> 29:57.100]  Okay, that's all.
[29:57.260 --> 29:57.760]  Take care.
[29:58.060 --> 29:58.260]  Bye-bye.
[29:59.120 --> 29:59.540]  Wow.
[29:59.920 --> 30:02.660]  What people in Spain are getting up to?
[30:02.800 --> 30:03.260]  Yes, Gila.
[30:04.020 --> 30:06.040]  I did want to share a piece of information.
[30:06.280 --> 30:18.960]  Thank you to Listener MK on our YouTube chat, who informs us that CHU's frequencies are now 3330, 7850, and 14670.
[30:19.580 --> 30:23.280]  You sound like the guy on Radio Moscow announcing the frequencies.
[30:24.140 --> 30:26.760]  There's no way to reward that, but that sounded really cool.
[30:27.560 --> 30:32.220]  On Radio Free Moscow, frequencies announce you.
[30:32.220 --> 30:33.920]  They were never Radio Free Moscow.
[30:33.980 --> 30:36.080]  It was always Radio Moscow, but yeah.
[30:37.000 --> 30:37.320]  Wow.
[30:37.500 --> 30:40.660]  Okay, well, as soon as I get the shortwave fired up...
[30:42.640 --> 30:47.940]  Maybe somebody can send us an excerpt of that, because I don't think I'm going to get the shortwave fired up anytime soon.
[30:48.200 --> 30:50.440]  But it was always a good signal.
[30:51.500 --> 30:52.860]  CHU, I remember hearing that.
[30:52.940 --> 30:54.200]  It was always pleasant.
[30:54.460 --> 30:58.420]  We have the antenna, but we've got to wait for a good thunderstorm to go put it up.
[30:58.900 --> 31:00.360]  What, you want to put it up in a thunderstorm?
[31:00.580 --> 31:01.460]  Isn't that how you do it?
[31:01.460 --> 31:02.460]  You get it like the good signal?
[31:02.460 --> 31:04.600]  That's how you do it, but I don't think that's how you're supposed to do it.
[31:05.980 --> 31:06.340]  Okay.
[31:06.620 --> 31:12.660]  Okay, so this is a story that I wanted to bounce off of, Alex, involving the Red Cross.
[31:14.500 --> 31:23.100]  There's new guidelines that have been codified to govern the rules of engagement concerning hacktivists involved in ongoing cyber warfare.
[31:23.280 --> 31:23.740]  How about this?
[31:23.840 --> 31:24.200]  Rules.
[31:24.200 --> 31:40.280]  The International Committee of the Red Cross, known as the ICRC, the Humanitarian Protection Organization responsible for promoting international law, has set out eight rules for hacktivists and another four for states to discourage civilian involvement in cyber attacks against other countries.
[31:40.280 --> 31:47.340]  If you're a hacktivist out there, get your pen and paper ready, because these are the rules.
[31:47.760 --> 32:03.220]  The rate at which civilians are becoming involved in international conflicts has been described as a worrying trend by the ICRC, a phenomenon exacerbated by the ongoing war in Ukraine, which has seen for the first time conflict taking place in both the physical and digital space concurrently.
[32:03.220 --> 32:06.380]  I doubt it's the first time, but it's certainly one of the biggest times.
[32:07.100 --> 32:12.380]  Specifically named by the ICRC was the IT Army of Ukraine.
[32:12.520 --> 32:18.240]  Yes, they were named by the International Committee of the Red Cross, so their faces must be red.
[32:18.660 --> 32:24.080]  The vigilante band of hacktivists that assembled early in the war using the telegram messaging platform.
[32:25.020 --> 32:28.060]  They are an example of civilians joining war efforts.
[32:28.060 --> 32:37.460]  The group has since expanded to develop a service that invites anyone to donate computer power to launch autonomous, disruptive attacks against Russian targets.
[32:37.760 --> 32:52.060]  Now, one of the eight new rules surrounding hacktivism efforts explicitly prohibits activities such as this, banning the use of autonomous attack methods and, by extension, historical examples like Stuxnet.
[32:52.060 --> 32:59.540]  The same rule also prohibits the use of attacks that could spill over and disrupt systems away from the intended target.
[32:59.960 --> 33:08.060]  Now, while the attack on Naviasat, which took place just an hour before the war in Ukraine officially began, that wasn't listed as an example.
[33:08.060 --> 33:12.600]  It serves as one of the most recent cases of these kinds of spillover attacks.
[33:12.600 --> 33:22.800]  In the weeks that followed, satellite internet users throughout Europe reported issues and the effects even disrupted wind farms in neighboring countries.
[33:25.360 --> 33:36.660]  The NotPetya worm of 2017 also presents an infamous historical example of cyberattacks, the effects of which spillover and affect targets beyond their intended reach.
[33:36.660 --> 33:42.840]  And then... Okay, well, anyway, let's get into the list of rules that apply to civilian online attackers.
[33:43.060 --> 33:44.500]  So you're a civilian online attacker.
[33:45.120 --> 33:46.120]  Write these down.
[33:46.200 --> 33:46.740]  I'll record this.
[33:47.220 --> 33:50.840]  Number one, do not direct cyberattacks against civilian objects.
[33:51.680 --> 34:01.340]  Number two, do not use malware or other tools or techniques that spread automatically and damage military objectives and civilian objects indiscriminately.
[34:01.580 --> 34:05.340]  These are good rules for anyone involved in a conflict, I think.
[34:05.340 --> 34:15.980]  Three, when planning a cyberattack against a military objective, do everything feasible to avoid or minimize the effects your operation may have on civilians.
[34:16.420 --> 34:23.140]  Number four, do not conduct any cyberoperation against medical and humanitarian facilities.
[34:25.460 --> 34:33.840]  Do not conduct any cyberattack against objects indispensable to the survival of the population or that can release dangerous forces.
[34:33.840 --> 34:34.820]  That was number five.
[34:35.360 --> 34:40.020]  Number six, do not make threats of violence to spread terror among the civilian population.
[34:40.820 --> 34:41.760]  Always a good rule.
[34:41.900 --> 34:45.820]  Number seven, do not incite violations of international humanitarian law.
[34:46.280 --> 34:49.420]  And number eight, comply with these rules even if the enemy does not.
[34:50.380 --> 35:03.420]  So many of these rules echo the unspoken code of conduct that's generally understood to be in place in the cybersecurity world, that attacks should not harm civilians or target hospitals, charities, and similar organizations.
[35:03.760 --> 35:12.220]  They're generally understood in most cases, and even the most prolific ransomware groups have shown glimpses that they abide by a moral code.
[35:12.340 --> 35:14.340]  I'm going to say that again because it does sound silly.
[35:14.520 --> 35:19.740]  The most prolific ransomware groups have shown glimpses that they abide by a moral code.
[35:19.740 --> 35:24.700]  However, some cybercriminals still operate without such restrictions.
[35:25.140 --> 35:40.600]  The ICRC said the three main concerns born out of the rise in civilian engagement and digital warfare include increased risk to civilian harm due to the increased number of attacks targeting civilian objects, the risk of civilians exposing themselves to military operations,
[35:40.800 --> 35:46.180]  and the fact the line increasingly blurs between who is a civilian and who is a combatant.
[35:46.740 --> 35:47.360]  All right.
[35:47.460 --> 35:48.520]  Just to finish up here.
[35:48.960 --> 35:50.480]  Rules for states.
[35:50.840 --> 35:57.900]  The ICRC has also drawn up rules for countries themselves in an effort to dissuade them from tolerating hacktivist activity.
[35:58.760 --> 36:05.940]  I should point out that neither the U.S., Russia, nor China are part of the International Criminal Court.
[36:05.960 --> 36:07.680]  So they pretty much do as they please.
[36:08.220 --> 36:25.740]  The four rules are, number one, one, if civilian hackers act under the instruction, direction, or control of a state, that state is internationally legally responsible for any conduct of those individuals that is inconsistent with the state's international legal obligations,
[36:26.260 --> 36:28.600]  including international humanitarian law.
[36:28.780 --> 36:34.500]  Number two, states must not encourage civilians or groups to act in violation of international humanitarian law.
[36:34.920 --> 36:52.020]  Number three, states have a due diligence obligation to prevent international humanitarian law And finally, number four, states have an obligation to prosecute war crimes and take measures necessary to suppress other IHL violations.
[36:53.840 --> 36:54.880]  What do you think, Alex?
[36:55.480 --> 36:58.560]  Rules for hacktivists.
[36:59.900 --> 37:01.600]  I think they're kind of interesting.
[37:01.920 --> 37:02.880]  Just pull them in early.
[37:02.980 --> 37:03.860]  Can you guys hear me okay?
[37:03.860 --> 37:07.000]  Because I'm using a new set of earbuds.
[37:07.020 --> 37:09.360]  We actually hear you better than we did before.
[37:09.800 --> 37:10.700]  Oh, okay.
[37:10.800 --> 37:12.840]  This might be the best you've ever sounded, in fact.
[37:13.780 --> 37:16.160]  Oh, that's news to me.
[37:16.300 --> 37:26.700]  Well, okay, but with respect to these rules, I think the subtext of all of them is essentially, don't be an idiot.
[37:27.060 --> 37:29.920]  That's really what it's all about here.
[37:30.080 --> 37:34.320]  Don't do things that are going to have unintended consequences and hurt innocent people.
[37:34.460 --> 37:39.780]  And that's generally accepted in any kind of conflict, as you had mentioned.
[37:39.800 --> 37:43.460]  So I think that they're... it's interesting that they're codified.
[37:43.580 --> 37:44.660]  It's good to see them in writing.
[37:45.180 --> 37:49.020]  You can point to them and reference them, I guess, if you need to.
[37:49.380 --> 37:53.520]  But really, that seems to me to be a lot of common sense.
[37:53.760 --> 38:04.320]  I guess the main fear here, though, is that people who are acting without a lot of common sense could end up creating some kind of cascading cyber event.
[38:04.920 --> 38:16.200]  That's certainly what happened with NotPetya, and by the way, that it started with Russia in Ukraine, and then traveled all around the world, creating massive amounts of damage.
[38:16.380 --> 38:22.340]  And it seemed... and the intention behind that particular piece of malware seemed to be actually destruction.
[38:23.060 --> 38:24.180]  It wasn't ransom.
[38:24.440 --> 38:25.120]  It wasn't extortion.
[38:25.280 --> 38:27.560]  It was actually the destruction of data.
[38:27.560 --> 38:34.640]  So, you know, that's, I think, a great example of people just doing, you know, really bad, idiotic things with these types of systems.
[38:35.100 --> 38:41.100]  But then it can really blur the line between what's a military target and what's a civilian target.
[38:41.100 --> 38:54.460]  And by crossing these bounds, civilians could be bringing unto themselves and to their neighbors and neighborhoods perhaps some kind of kinetic response that the rest of the community did not necessarily sign up for.
[38:55.280 --> 38:58.340]  And that, I think, is a big problem.
[38:58.340 --> 39:05.020]  So I welcome these types of codifications, even if they do really just codify common sense.
[39:05.740 --> 39:13.320]  Yeah, I think the most that we can hope for is that they're simply guidelines that people out there try their best to follow.
[39:13.500 --> 39:24.200]  But it's unrealistic to expect everybody to be on their best behavior while they're engaged in hacker warfare or whatever the term is.
[39:28.270 --> 39:52.830]  Yeah, and the tactics that are used, I think, by our own militaries or in the case of Ukraine and some of these conflicts, like, in many cases, they're going to have strictures around a lot of that and try to control and heavily control exactly what they're doing and when.
[39:52.830 --> 40:11.910]  And I think these are, like Alex said, guidelines, mainly, I think, as common sense, but also to identify when people are out of those bounds, whether they're doing it commercially or for fun or for ideological purpose and as part of an action or as part of a group.
[40:11.910 --> 40:19.710]  Say, like, you are involved in some stuff and a group wants to do some big automated thing, that might be a flag.
[40:19.830 --> 40:23.330]  That might be something that you then maybe say, okay, this could get out of hand.
[40:23.510 --> 40:26.630]  They don't really have a handle on how they're using this.
[40:26.630 --> 40:52.750]  But on the other side of that, I'm also really aware of the idea of dissuading people from doing anything at all, because the concept of people getting together and doing things collectively in a digital forum is quite scary to nation states.
[40:52.750 --> 41:10.890]  Because as much as we might build up the scariness of governments, I mean, private individuals, private entities, the masses themselves have most of the actual power.
[41:10.890 --> 41:20.910]  We're just not fundamentally organized in the same way as a government or a state or a military actor.
[41:21.430 --> 41:23.050]  And that's a huge fear.
[41:23.250 --> 41:39.570]  So that beginning of the article is, to me, says a lot about the anxiety here that what if people got organized or what if people were engaged in this activity and it was against us or it was against other people?
[41:39.570 --> 41:41.290]  I mean, look at all the people in the streets now.
[41:41.290 --> 41:48.130]  What if that was organized and tied to one of these actions?
[41:48.130 --> 41:51.290]  It goes both ways, is basically what I'm saying.
[41:51.870 --> 42:03.390]  So it is, I think, think of like domestic politics that like if people were organized and activated, they could be incredibly disruptive.
[42:03.390 --> 42:28.190]  But the platforms we like just obsess over and talk and just wallow in are meant essentially to keep us sort of contained in different universes and in ways that don't actually have us asserting our rights and asserting what our grievances are in various ways.
[42:28.190 --> 42:39.090]  And that in a lot of ways is, man, I mean, your imagination could run wild thinking of how powerful that is.
[42:39.190 --> 42:46.290]  And it makes you realize just how important it is to not feel powerless.
[42:46.290 --> 42:59.630]  They want actively people to not be engaging in this, certainly not against the regimes and the actions that their government engages in that they might disagree with.
[42:59.770 --> 43:02.590]  So domestically, you never would want this domestically.
[43:02.790 --> 43:10.150]  But then, of course, when it comes to strategic interests, it's like, you know, let's go.
[43:10.490 --> 43:14.150]  Bye bye these rules and turn a blind eye.
[43:14.270 --> 43:14.750]  We don't care.
[43:14.750 --> 43:25.870]  And so I think I just have a lot of different feelings about what this is saying and what the anxieties here are, what the motivations are to put this out.
[43:26.190 --> 43:31.630]  This is again, this is a UN agency, the ICRC is the International Criminal Court.
[43:32.130 --> 43:37.190]  So they're kind of observing the trends and putting this out there.
[43:37.190 --> 43:41.830]  And as was stated, like, big players like Russia and the U.S.
[43:41.850 --> 43:44.790]  and China are not signatories in the first place.
[43:45.050 --> 43:47.570]  Well, this is put out by the International Committee of the Red Cross.
[43:47.830 --> 43:48.710]  Oh, I thought it was ICRC.
[43:48.710 --> 43:49.230]  Oh, yeah.
[43:49.670 --> 43:51.430]  I believe they're affiliated.
[43:51.910 --> 43:52.690]  Oh, ICRC.
[43:52.830 --> 43:52.910]  Yeah.
[43:52.990 --> 43:59.690]  And it's, okay, an arm, not the criminal court, but it is also...
[43:59.690 --> 44:01.470]  It would be nice if we joined up.
[44:01.550 --> 44:02.230]  We'd know more about it.
[44:02.230 --> 44:03.950]  I think it's separate from the UN.
[44:04.150 --> 44:04.730]  I misspoke.
[44:04.790 --> 44:07.110]  It's just, it's shameful that we're not a part of that, but whatever.
[44:07.310 --> 44:09.670]  We should be signatories and so forth.
[44:09.870 --> 44:13.430]  And so fifth and the like, et cetera.
[44:14.070 --> 44:14.930]  Phone lines open.
[44:15.190 --> 44:15.410]  Okay.
[44:15.610 --> 44:16.050]  Eight zero...
[44:16.050 --> 44:17.250]  We haven't given out the phone number yet.
[44:17.370 --> 44:19.470]  Eight zero two three two one four two two five.
[44:19.590 --> 44:20.730]  Eight zero two three two one hack.
[44:21.130 --> 44:23.230]  By the way, I found CHU.
[44:23.330 --> 44:24.830]  I'm not sure what this is going to sound like.
[44:24.950 --> 44:29.790]  I don't have a audition button here, but let's see what CHU sounds like according to YouTube.
[45:24.940 --> 45:25.960]  One more minute.
[45:59.830 --> 46:04.010]  One more minute.
[46:17.370 --> 46:18.890]  I think, I think we get the idea.
[46:19.390 --> 46:21.430]  I used to listen to that all the time.
[46:21.570 --> 46:22.630]  I was, I was pretty bored.
[46:22.630 --> 46:27.350]  Uh, but it was a good strong signal from Canada and it just, it sounded, it sounded cool.
[46:28.010 --> 46:29.350]  Has anyone else ever heard that?
[46:30.910 --> 46:31.470]  Not me.
[46:32.370 --> 46:33.510]  Rob, you're shaking your head.
[46:34.170 --> 46:34.810]  It's radio.
[46:37.010 --> 46:38.290]  Rob, you're not making any noise.
[46:38.510 --> 46:38.970]  Oh, wait a second.
[46:39.290 --> 46:40.230]  No, I have you.
[46:40.310 --> 46:40.910]  You're muting.
[46:41.090 --> 46:41.490]  Oh, wait.
[46:41.550 --> 46:42.670]  No, I did have the button pushed.
[46:42.750 --> 46:43.070]  I'm sorry.
[46:43.490 --> 46:44.030]  Sorry, Rob.
[46:44.110 --> 46:44.270]  Go ahead.
[46:44.590 --> 46:45.130]  Soldier man.
[46:45.150 --> 46:45.870]  I mute me.
[46:46.190 --> 46:51.110]  Um, no, um, I, I, it's a, I could see how that could be a very reassuring noise.
[46:51.110 --> 47:06.230]  Um, but also it reminds me of, um, you know, the, the previous episode of the show, which I listened to though, I wasn't on, um, you talked about the, the alert tones, the, the alert tone test that everyone got on their mobile phones, um, which is the modern,
[47:06.390 --> 47:16.050]  uh, equivalent to, which is one modern equivalent to what we used to have back in the, back in the days of my youth, um, which was the emergency broadcast system.
[47:16.350 --> 47:22.570]  Now it's the emergency alert system, but they were the emergency broadcast system tones, which we would get on television, um, every so often.
[47:22.990 --> 47:40.530]  And it was, it's just, you know, it was just a beep, but it's, uh, it's like a nostalgic thing to think back on also the, uh, like things like the, the off the air tones and, uh, color bar screens that we used to get on television stations at night after they We stopped broadcasting live material.
[47:41.110 --> 47:45.590]  And it was just one of those things which existed in everyone's broadcast environment.
[47:45.990 --> 47:48.830]  And you never really paid much attention to it.
[47:48.970 --> 47:51.830]  But it's interesting to think about now that it's gone.
[47:52.090 --> 47:54.050]  You know, what you say is so true.
[47:54.270 --> 47:57.550]  I miss TV stations that sign off the air.
[47:57.910 --> 47:59.390]  That might sound nasty.
[47:59.810 --> 48:04.950]  But when you look at what's actually being broadcast at 3 in the morning, it's crap.
[48:05.270 --> 48:06.330]  Nobody's watching it.
[48:06.430 --> 48:07.050]  It's just garbage.
[48:07.050 --> 48:14.530]  And having either a test pattern or static, which opens up the frequency to more distant stations, that was fun.
[48:14.650 --> 48:18.010]  As a kid, I would turn on my TV and I would find stations.
[48:18.170 --> 48:21.590]  I found stations... Here on Long Island, I found stations in Boston.
[48:22.150 --> 48:24.030]  Some days I'd get stations in Philadelphia.
[48:24.530 --> 48:26.830]  Once I even got a station all the way from Kansas.
[48:26.850 --> 48:27.670]  It was amazing.
[48:28.630 --> 48:29.630]  Same thing with radio.
[48:29.930 --> 48:31.750]  You can still do that on AM radio, by the way.
[48:32.390 --> 48:34.190]  At night, you can hear distant stations.
[48:34.190 --> 48:40.290]  But it was particularly interesting with television, because all of a sudden, you were opened up to this world.
[48:41.390 --> 48:44.210]  And it depended on the atmospheric conditions.
[48:44.730 --> 48:47.030]  Sometimes you would get things from far away.
[48:47.490 --> 48:48.830]  Other times you would not.
[48:49.250 --> 48:51.270]  But it doesn't exist anymore.
[48:51.470 --> 48:52.930]  It's all digital now.
[48:54.090 --> 48:56.330]  You either get the station or you don't.
[48:56.390 --> 48:57.790]  There's no middle ground.
[48:57.790 --> 49:05.150]  There's no distant station that you can maybe hear Rod Serling doing a Twilight Zone in another city or something like that.
[49:06.550 --> 49:10.570]  It's just one of many parts of magic that people don't get to experience.
[49:10.570 --> 49:12.430]  And I really feel bad about that.
[49:13.550 --> 49:18.030]  There was a time more recently when I was doing some work at a television station in the city.
[49:18.030 --> 49:26.630]  And I was in the control room, the broadcast control room, and those color bar screens, which many of us remember seeing overnight.
[49:27.670 --> 49:35.530]  Those color bar screens are still used to send test signals internally into screens in the station when you're switching things back and forth.
[49:35.770 --> 49:43.670]  And being faced with that image on a TV screen again, I suddenly felt like I was seeing an old friend for the first time in decades.
[49:43.670 --> 49:46.710]  It was a really just warm and fuzzy experience.
[49:47.290 --> 49:47.850]  Yeah, yeah.
[49:48.290 --> 49:50.590]  You know, I used to collect TV guides back then.
[49:50.710 --> 49:52.710]  This was back in the early 70s.
[49:53.150 --> 49:57.850]  And it was just such mystery involved with the stations you couldn't get.
[49:58.010 --> 50:00.710]  Because it would list all the stations in New York City, and I was out on the island.
[50:01.090 --> 50:06.490]  So I was never able to see Channel 25 or Channel 31 or Channel 41 or 47.
[50:07.370 --> 50:18.170]  So when I visited a relative in the city and was able to see those stations for the first time, it was like meeting some kind of fantasy creature.
[50:19.210 --> 50:22.410]  And nobody else could really appreciate that then either, I think.
[50:22.610 --> 50:25.370]  And nobody can appreciate that now, unfortunately.
[50:25.570 --> 50:28.230]  But, you know, I still have some of those issues.
[50:28.230 --> 50:33.610]  I still look back fondly on them and see weird program listings.
[50:33.830 --> 50:41.490]  For instance, Channel 31 would sign on every day at noon with a program called Police Commissioner.
[50:41.690 --> 50:42.530]  And it was a film.
[50:42.710 --> 50:44.470]  It was always the same film, too.
[50:44.630 --> 50:49.350]  It was meant for cops who were being trained and how they should behave.
[50:49.690 --> 50:53.010]  And, you know, they had this cop who was sloppy.
[50:53.330 --> 50:54.490]  His shirt wasn't tucked in.
[50:54.570 --> 50:55.490]  And he got a reprimand.
[50:55.490 --> 51:00.170]  And then he improved and he got a compliment every day at noon.
[51:00.750 --> 51:03.070]  And I would see the listing, you know, in my TV guide.
[51:03.190 --> 51:03.590]  Police Commissioner.
[51:03.670 --> 51:04.230]  What is that?
[51:04.390 --> 51:06.870]  And finally, when I was in the city, I was able to see it.
[51:07.010 --> 51:09.370]  And, boy, that was really something.
[51:09.970 --> 51:11.090]  Now that station...
[51:11.090 --> 51:12.610]  Giuliani destroyed that station, by the way.
[51:12.670 --> 51:17.570]  He sold it to the PAX network and it just has crap on it now all the time.
[51:18.070 --> 51:19.410]  But it used to be owned by New York City.
[51:19.570 --> 51:20.930]  And it was fascinating.
[51:21.130 --> 51:22.750]  Anyway, big tangent there.
[51:22.750 --> 51:28.090]  Lots of bits of old technology that really had magic attached to it.
[51:28.110 --> 51:30.530]  And it's a shame that we just toss it aside.
[51:30.890 --> 51:33.890]  You know, I'm not saying don't embrace new technology.
[51:33.890 --> 51:35.150]  We should embrace that, of course.
[51:35.670 --> 51:37.550]  But let's not throw out the old technology.
[51:37.630 --> 51:39.710]  Because we can always learn something from it.
[51:39.750 --> 51:40.890]  We can always experiment with it.
[51:40.930 --> 51:41.750]  We can always play with it.
[51:41.750 --> 51:44.030]  And it's our history.
[51:44.270 --> 51:46.290]  It's part of what we are all about.
[51:46.410 --> 51:47.050]  We have another phone call?
[51:47.250 --> 51:47.890]  I hear it ringing.
[51:48.350 --> 51:50.270]  Let me bring this up.
[51:50.390 --> 51:50.790]  And good evening.
[51:50.930 --> 51:51.850]  You're on Off the Hook Overtime.
[51:51.930 --> 51:52.130]  Go ahead.
[51:53.350 --> 51:53.830]  Hey.
[51:54.290 --> 51:58.810]  I just wanted to mention how the AI of Mayor Adams...
[51:59.290 --> 52:03.150]  It sounded like the AI learned English as a second language.
[52:03.170 --> 52:04.150]  I'm a Spanish speaker.
[52:04.390 --> 52:04.770]  Okay.
[52:05.050 --> 52:06.330]  It's a second review.
[52:08.130 --> 52:09.110]  That it wasn't great.
[52:09.690 --> 52:10.790]  It was horrible.
[52:10.790 --> 52:13.130]  I mean, it's...
[52:13.130 --> 52:14.310]  You know, I mean...
[52:14.310 --> 52:14.710]  Stilted?
[52:15.730 --> 52:16.270]  Huh?
[52:16.630 --> 52:18.290]  Like stilted sounding?
[52:19.370 --> 52:19.910]  Yeah.
[52:20.110 --> 52:20.870]  Stilted sounding.
[52:21.450 --> 52:25.150]  I mean, it literally sounded like someone who was not a native speaker.
[52:25.550 --> 52:27.900]  Almost, you know, not as bad as Bloomberg, but...
[52:29.330 --> 52:29.870]  Okay.
[52:29.870 --> 52:37.150]  So, you know, maybe there's a level where you program the AI to make me sound crappy or make me sound fluent.
[52:37.390 --> 52:40.770]  And maybe Mayor Adams, to his credit, said, you know what?
[52:40.830 --> 52:41.950]  I don't want to sound too polished.
[52:42.110 --> 52:43.230]  I want to sound kind of dumb.
[52:44.010 --> 52:44.210]  And...
[52:44.210 --> 52:45.690]  No, unless they meant to do that.
[52:45.810 --> 52:46.010]  Yeah.
[52:46.230 --> 52:47.130]  Because it was just...
[52:47.130 --> 52:50.550]  I found it like, you know, why would I listen to this?
[52:51.090 --> 52:52.490]  If you're going to do it that way?
[52:52.750 --> 52:52.950]  Uh-huh.
[52:53.130 --> 52:53.370]  Uh-huh.
[52:53.750 --> 52:57.470]  Yeah, you'd be like preoccupied with how bad it was and not actually the message.
[52:57.690 --> 52:57.950]  Yeah.
[52:58.170 --> 52:58.470]  Yeah.
[52:58.470 --> 52:58.610]  Yeah.
[53:00.530 --> 53:03.050]  I wonder who else we'll be getting calls from, you know?
[53:03.590 --> 53:06.350]  Can you imagine getting a call from Trump speaking Mandarin?
[53:07.470 --> 53:07.870]  Wow.
[53:09.370 --> 53:09.770]  Wow.
[53:09.950 --> 53:10.870]  Now you're curious.
[53:11.010 --> 53:12.490]  Now you want the technology to move ahead.
[53:12.570 --> 53:13.330]  You want to hear that.
[53:13.770 --> 53:14.730]  We all want to hear that.
[53:16.830 --> 53:17.570]  Oh, boy.
[53:18.990 --> 53:19.270]  Okay.
[53:19.790 --> 53:20.550]  Anything else, caller?
[53:21.310 --> 53:22.570]  Uh, no, that's about it.
[53:22.810 --> 53:24.230]  Alex, did you have something for the caller?
[53:25.350 --> 53:26.070]  Yeah, I did.
[53:26.250 --> 53:38.550]  I wanted to ask the caller, since he's a native Spanish speaker, now, could you assume for a second, or would you imagine for a second, that you didn't know that that was an AI and you received that call?
[53:38.770 --> 53:45.570]  And you thought it was that even though it was a recording, you thought it was Mayor Adams speaking Spanish, even if it was stilted.
[53:45.790 --> 53:50.530]  Would you have connected with him in some way because he was making the effort?
[53:51.070 --> 53:56.490]  I mean, if I thought it was Mayor Adams, you know, I would at least give him credit for attempting it.
[53:56.930 --> 53:59.310]  I mean, I guess like you guys are saying about Bloomberg attempting.
[54:01.570 --> 54:12.290]  But if I knew if it were an AI doing the same thing, and I would feel like, you know, either, you know, not fully using the AI as it could be used.
[54:12.410 --> 54:15.790]  I mean, if you could make it sound like a native speaker or something.
[54:15.910 --> 54:17.170]  I mean, that's what his attempt was.
[54:17.950 --> 54:18.310]  Yeah.
[54:18.690 --> 54:23.590]  But I mean, I think the whole issue we had, too, was that there was nothing...
[54:23.590 --> 54:24.330]  There was no preface.
[54:24.470 --> 54:25.990]  There was no warning that this was an AI.
[54:27.010 --> 54:30.910]  So if you heard this and you said, oh, wow, you know, he really...
[54:31.370 --> 54:33.630]  He can speak and understand Spanish.
[54:33.630 --> 54:36.310]  There's these complicated sentences coming out of his mouth.
[54:36.470 --> 54:39.070]  And, you know, that would be somewhat impressive, right?
[54:40.150 --> 54:41.790]  I mean, the way it was used, yeah.
[54:42.050 --> 54:47.230]  I mean, I guess as you guys were talking about it, I wanted to see what it would sound like.
[54:47.510 --> 54:53.410]  So it was, you know, it sounded more silly than anything else being in the AI program.
[54:54.010 --> 55:03.470]  But if I had no idea what it was, or, you know, if, you know, I would think that, you know, Mayor Bloom, I mean, Adams knows some Spanish.
[55:04.630 --> 55:05.070]  Yeah.
[55:05.230 --> 55:07.790]  And that's the misleading part of that.
[55:07.990 --> 55:08.430]  So, I mean...
[55:08.430 --> 55:08.550]  Yeah.
[55:08.730 --> 55:13.350]  That you reinforced my conclusion there that I think there was some kind of...
[55:13.350 --> 55:18.850]  that I do think there is an ethical issue with the use of AI without any kind of warning.
[55:19.490 --> 55:19.930]  Yeah.
[55:19.970 --> 55:30.290]  I mean, I don't have a problem with people doing AI stuff like that, but it would be, you know, be better if, you know, there were like some kind of, like a message or a warning or something.
[55:30.430 --> 55:33.910]  This is an AI product or this is an AI interpretation or something.
[55:33.950 --> 55:44.430]  Well, I'll bet some agency will get involved and mandate that there has to be a warning on any robocall, phone calls that have foreign languages is programmed.
[55:46.170 --> 55:46.650]  Yeah.
[55:46.910 --> 55:49.310]  Maybe it'll be a rule that comes from Mastodon.
[55:49.870 --> 56:01.750]  I'm even thinking someone will coin a phrase and we'll start using a term, some made-up word that describes the phenomena and it will become common in vernacular.
[56:01.990 --> 56:04.710]  I don't know what the word is, but there'll be a term for it.
[56:04.890 --> 56:15.850]  You know, lots of times people with technology and things that are kind of abstract, we make up some way of identifying or labeling and we'll say that that's something, you know, it's this kind of thing.
[56:16.070 --> 56:22.190]  You know how every political ad you hear always has a tag at the end saying paid for by friends of so-and-so.
[56:22.690 --> 56:23.530]  That'll be required.
[56:24.150 --> 56:33.710]  Or even like those medicine ads where we have the warnings like this thing is going to be the best thing for your life, but it may kill you.
[56:34.290 --> 56:43.690]  Yeah, side effects include death and decay and then they show people having the time of their lives running around on the field with a dog and all that.
[56:43.930 --> 56:47.670]  They're talking about all the ways they could die from taking the medication that they're advertising.
[56:48.570 --> 56:48.670]  Yeah.
[56:49.350 --> 56:49.750]  Special.
[56:51.150 --> 56:51.650]  All right.
[56:51.730 --> 56:53.190]  Well, thank you so much for calling.
[56:53.810 --> 56:54.510]  You're welcome.
[56:54.650 --> 56:54.810]  All right.
[56:54.870 --> 56:55.230]  Take care.
[56:56.070 --> 56:56.370]  Bye-bye.
[56:56.810 --> 56:58.530]  Kyle, how was your arm?
[56:59.910 --> 57:01.810]  I mean, I don't know if I could pitch right now.
[57:01.930 --> 57:02.110]  No.
[57:02.630 --> 57:05.250]  Maybe this is what pitchers feel like after they pitch a game.
[57:05.250 --> 57:06.910]  That's why they have to wait three or four days.
[57:07.290 --> 57:07.730]  Wow.
[57:07.970 --> 57:09.030]  I wouldn't want to be a pitcher then.
[57:10.110 --> 57:10.990]  That's something.
[57:11.690 --> 57:12.530]  Not bad, though.
[57:12.730 --> 57:15.010]  I can press the button to answer phone calls.
[57:15.110 --> 57:25.290]  If this is the only price to pay for being protected against the, you know, full wrath of COVID and the flu and, for me, shingles.
[57:25.430 --> 57:30.870]  I'm just amazed that we have these, like, medicines that can do all this crazy stuff.
[57:30.970 --> 57:31.770]  There's so much...
[57:32.330 --> 57:33.290]  It's just magical.
[57:33.470 --> 57:34.030]  It's pretty amazing.
[57:34.250 --> 57:34.550]  Yes.
[57:34.550 --> 57:35.690]  I didn't finish my sentence.
[57:35.930 --> 57:36.550]  Oh, yeah, I interrupted.
[57:36.550 --> 57:37.550]  It would be worth it.
[57:38.690 --> 57:40.770]  Just in case people thought, maybe I would say the opposite.
[57:40.890 --> 57:41.230]  Yes, Gila?
[57:41.770 --> 57:50.250]  Before we take the next caller, because I can hear the phone ringing, I did want to share a really fabulous discussion that's been going on on the live chat.
[57:51.090 --> 57:52.310]  Everybody's talking to each other.
[57:52.510 --> 57:53.250]  Where are they?
[57:53.390 --> 57:54.870]  What time is it where they are?
[57:55.050 --> 58:03.850]  And it turns out that we have a listener in Nigeria who's listening to a few people in a senior citizen's home in Nigeria.
[58:04.230 --> 58:05.030]  Oh, my goodness.
[58:05.150 --> 58:06.910]  And I just thought that was very cool and wanted to share that.
[58:07.170 --> 58:09.810]  Wait, does this mean Nigerian senior citizens listen to us?
[58:09.870 --> 58:11.270]  Because that could be a whole untapped market.
[58:13.250 --> 58:13.690]  Okay.
[58:14.230 --> 58:14.950]  They are now.
[58:15.430 --> 58:16.230]  Apparently so.
[58:16.410 --> 58:33.990]  So, if our listener in Nigeria could let us know if you were, like, listening with your colleagues in a senior citizen's home in Nigeria, or if you are listening with a group of Nigerian senior citizens, clarity would be an amazing thing.
[58:34.310 --> 58:40.250]  But, yeah, we got people in Spain and the UK and Australia.
[58:41.310 --> 58:42.670]  But nobody from the United States.
[58:42.770 --> 58:44.390]  Our own country has forsaken us.
[58:45.930 --> 58:46.890]  It's always the way.
[58:48.170 --> 58:56.030]  But, yes, this is a fabulous listener chat community we have going on, which is, I think, kind of what we hoped would happen when we opened up the chat.
[58:56.030 --> 58:59.470]  So, glad all 38 of you are with us.
[58:59.850 --> 59:01.770]  And that's what I got.
[59:02.090 --> 59:06.210]  We'll have to look up for more stories from that continent.
[59:06.410 --> 59:07.510]  I've always wanted to go to Nigeria.
[59:07.610 --> 59:11.410]  Nigeria and Kenya are two countries I really want to go to in that region.
[59:11.790 --> 59:14.670]  So, that is something.
[59:15.470 --> 59:18.930]  Okay, so 802-321-4225 is our telephone number.
[59:19.850 --> 59:21.590]  802-321-HACK.
[59:22.430 --> 59:23.870]  Only on for a couple more minutes.
[59:23.890 --> 59:25.350]  In fact, oh my God, it's 9 o'clock already.
[59:25.350 --> 59:27.330]  So, yeah, we'll take one more phone call.
[59:27.390 --> 59:27.830]  How about that?
[59:27.990 --> 59:29.790]  So, it's a race now to get to the phones.
[59:29.910 --> 59:33.630]  Whoever wants to speak last, and it's not going to be for very long, whoever calls.
[59:33.830 --> 59:40.750]  So, if you have a speech ready, save it for next week because we are getting tired and cranky.
[59:40.910 --> 59:41.850]  I know I am.
[59:41.910 --> 59:42.550]  My arm hurts.
[59:43.670 --> 59:47.330]  Yes, and we understand people have to have supper.
[59:49.230 --> 59:51.050]  Is that people have supper here?
[59:51.110 --> 59:54.130]  they're stirring their stew right now listening to us.
[59:54.130 --> 59:56.090]  We had dinner here, but we have supper apparently.
[59:56.370 --> 59:57.390]  I made that up.
[01:00:01.350 --> 01:00:04.290]  Also, our listeners who are in...
[01:00:04.290 --> 01:00:05.670]  people were...
[01:00:05.670 --> 01:00:08.890]  took umbrage that you're saying that we didn't have listeners in the U.S.
[01:00:09.490 --> 01:00:15.370]  We've got folks in the Bay Area, Pennsylvania, Connecticut, and thank you, Queens, New York.
[01:00:15.490 --> 01:00:16.430]  You were not the only one.
[01:00:16.810 --> 01:00:21.450]  They really took umbrage at an obviously sarcastic remark.
[01:00:22.250 --> 01:00:23.930]  Wow, that's just typical of Americans.
[01:00:24.070 --> 01:00:25.310]  Now they're really going to take umbrage.
[01:00:26.890 --> 01:00:27.590]  Umbrage away.
[01:00:27.710 --> 01:00:30.030]  I like making enemies wherever I go.
[01:00:30.190 --> 01:00:30.490]  I just...
[01:00:30.490 --> 01:00:31.690]  that's a hobby of mine.
[01:00:31.910 --> 01:00:32.330]  Slow down.
[01:00:32.650 --> 01:00:34.530]  Can we just give you a sticker that says content warning?
[01:00:35.130 --> 01:00:35.970]  No, I think it's...
[01:00:35.970 --> 01:00:38.710]  I think it's the pain in my arm that's just making me more obnoxious.
[01:00:38.970 --> 01:00:40.390]  I really believe that.
[01:00:40.690 --> 01:00:41.510]  We have a phone call?
[01:00:42.050 --> 01:00:43.870]  Um, yes, there's a call on the line.
[01:00:43.990 --> 01:00:44.570]  Okay, good evening.
[01:00:44.690 --> 01:00:45.450]  You're on off talk over time.
[01:00:46.610 --> 01:00:47.010]  Hi.
[01:00:48.330 --> 01:00:50.590]  It's Eleanor Elizabeth Foreman calling in.
[01:00:50.670 --> 01:00:51.670]  Oh my goodness, I remember you.
[01:00:51.850 --> 01:00:52.890]  It's been a while.
[01:00:54.110 --> 01:01:01.450]  Yeah, well, there's a reason I wasn't allowed to be on the air and this apparently counts also.
[01:01:01.930 --> 01:01:03.750]  You're not allowed to be...
[01:01:03.750 --> 01:01:04.990]  Wait, what kind of rule is that?
[01:01:06.290 --> 01:01:08.890]  Uh, fair campaign provision.
[01:01:09.290 --> 01:01:12.150]  Oh, because you're part of the BAI board or something like that?
[01:01:12.330 --> 01:01:13.310]  That's right, that's right.
[01:01:13.430 --> 01:01:14.510]  You're following the rules.
[01:01:15.070 --> 01:01:16.290]  I got re-elected.
[01:01:16.670 --> 01:01:17.670]  Oh, congratulations.
[01:01:18.190 --> 01:01:22.290]  We still have the champagne downstairs where we should, uh, get, get a, open up a bottle of the bubbly.
[01:01:22.790 --> 01:01:23.650]  Uh, that's great.
[01:01:23.790 --> 01:01:24.630]  Good, good news.
[01:01:25.450 --> 01:01:26.490]  Thank you.
[01:01:27.130 --> 01:01:53.070]  Um, when I, I was trying to put a Spanish language, uh, version of my candidate statement on, and I, I never succeeded in actually getting it posted, but I, I used Google Translate and I put at the top of it, uh, an apology that I was using Google Translate,
[01:01:53.630 --> 01:01:58.210]  you know, so I apologize for, you know, it's not being very good.
[01:01:58.370 --> 01:02:01.010]  Now, you see, this, this would meet our qualifications.
[01:02:01.390 --> 01:02:09.390]  This would meet our qualifications for, uh, having a, uh, a disclaimer, uh, admitting what you're doing, which is what we're saying Eric Adams should have.
[01:02:10.850 --> 01:02:11.290]  Yes.
[01:02:12.310 --> 01:02:16.070]  So, um, I did that and I, I got opinions from people.
[01:02:18.730 --> 01:02:28.850]  even if it's bad, uh, people will like that you tried and some people said this doesn't say what you wanted to say so you shouldn't use it.
[01:02:29.950 --> 01:02:40.390]  But, uh, somehow, it never actually got posted even though I complained to the NES that it wasn't posted so all of my efforts were in vain.
[01:02:40.850 --> 01:02:47.590]  But, had it been posted, it would have been clear that I hadn't done the translation myself.
[01:02:47.850 --> 01:02:58.510]  Okay, so I think you're setting the bar here that others should look to when they do something like this, whether it's using AI or using Google Translate, always tell people what you did.
[01:02:59.650 --> 01:03:00.210]  Yeah.
[01:03:00.790 --> 01:03:05.830]  Uh, and, you know, otherwise it would be embarrassing they're making mistakes in my name.
[01:03:07.830 --> 01:03:08.510]  Uh-huh.
[01:03:08.870 --> 01:03:15.530]  Uh, I believe at the beginning of the show you were saying something about the COVID shots being plentiful.
[01:03:15.690 --> 01:03:16.530]  They are not.
[01:03:16.830 --> 01:03:17.030]  Really?
[01:03:17.030 --> 01:03:35.910]  I've had difficulty trying to make an appointment and I had to make an appointment at a place I've never been before and then I didn't manage to be able to get there at the time and I'm going to have to try again but apparently there is a shortage and it's a Well,
[01:03:36.190 --> 01:03:38.570]  I don't know if this will apply in your area.
[01:03:38.570 --> 01:03:41.750]  And we're not on the radio now, so we can give out brand names.
[01:03:42.470 --> 01:03:45.110]  But we went to CVS, cvs.com.
[01:03:45.290 --> 01:03:47.750]  And if you have an account that makes it easier...
[01:03:47.750 --> 01:03:49.010]  Oh, that's what I was using.
[01:03:49.010 --> 01:03:52.350]  Well, then maybe changing the branch or something.
[01:03:52.810 --> 01:03:57.670]  Because the one that we chose, it had so many options.
[01:03:57.670 --> 01:03:58.570]  It was insane.
[01:03:58.590 --> 01:03:59.850]  And you could do it at night.
[01:03:59.850 --> 01:04:00.990]  You could do it in the morning.
[01:04:01.670 --> 01:04:04.990]  It was almost embarrassing how much they had.
[01:04:06.410 --> 01:04:07.990]  Lucky you, not me.
[01:04:08.110 --> 01:04:12.850]  Well, no, I'm saying, you know, it should work anywhere when there's a CVS.
[01:04:13.010 --> 01:04:13.690]  If that's...
[01:04:13.690 --> 01:04:15.090]  You know, I assume they get it from the same place.
[01:04:15.090 --> 01:04:19.790]  And maybe the one you're trying just doesn't get good supply.
[01:04:19.790 --> 01:04:21.350]  Or maybe there's a lot of people there.
[01:04:23.370 --> 01:04:33.130]  Well, the human being I got to help me told me that it's a small initial supply.
[01:04:33.270 --> 01:04:38.070]  And so there are difficulties because they don't have enough.
[01:04:38.250 --> 01:04:39.330]  Well, you know...
[01:04:39.330 --> 01:04:41.030]  So we're getting two different messages.
[01:04:41.090 --> 01:04:43.770]  Well, you're in New York City, I believe, right?
[01:04:44.650 --> 01:04:45.050]  Correct.
[01:04:45.290 --> 01:04:48.430]  Yeah, there's more people there than on Long Island where we did it.
[01:04:48.910 --> 01:04:53.930]  But so it might involve going to a less populated place, maybe like Westchester or something.
[01:04:54.050 --> 01:04:59.050]  I don't know if that's possible for you, but that would probably be a lot easier to get the vaccine.
[01:04:59.170 --> 01:05:03.470]  But I'm sure they're going to have it at some point if you just, you know, get yourself on.
[01:05:03.690 --> 01:05:04.130]  At some point.
[01:05:04.130 --> 01:05:06.250]  I want to get it before I get sick again.
[01:05:06.650 --> 01:05:07.050]  Smart.
[01:05:07.050 --> 01:05:10.450]  I have a hacker's problem, hacker question for you.
[01:05:10.450 --> 01:05:10.730]  Uh-oh.
[01:05:10.990 --> 01:05:12.030]  For all of you.
[01:05:16.730 --> 01:05:29.930]  The WBAI elections, if you look at the bottom of the first round, it tells you how many votes were tallied in the first round and how many abstentions there were.
[01:05:29.930 --> 01:05:37.050]  And then there's the national election supervisor's chart saying how many people voted.
[01:05:37.270 --> 01:05:38.550]  And they don't add up.
[01:05:38.710 --> 01:05:50.330]  There's a discrepancy of five votes that the NES says there were that election buddies did not count in the listener election.
[01:05:50.330 --> 01:05:54.670]  And two votes in the staff one.
[01:05:55.110 --> 01:05:55.530]  Huh.
[01:05:55.930 --> 01:06:00.690]  And another discrepancy at KPFK.
[01:06:01.510 --> 01:06:22.930]  And I'm wondering what do we do with, you know, if there's missing votes that weren't counted and they could affect the, if not the people who won, maybe the runners-up that might get tapped later on, how do we find out what happened?
[01:06:23.270 --> 01:06:26.270]  Well, you're an elected official now, can't you?
[01:06:27.690 --> 01:06:28.010]  Ha!
[01:06:29.690 --> 01:06:36.150]  I believe there's a link to look at the raw data, but that's only the ones that they actually counted.
[01:06:36.410 --> 01:06:39.390]  How do I get a hold of the ones that weren't counted?
[01:06:40.010 --> 01:06:41.590]  That's what I need to know.
[01:06:41.770 --> 01:06:42.770]  I have not a clue.
[01:06:43.130 --> 01:06:45.650]  Well, is there an election supervisor you could contact?
[01:06:46.530 --> 01:06:46.770]  Ha!
[01:06:46.950 --> 01:06:47.030]  Ha!
[01:06:47.170 --> 01:06:47.330]  Ha!
[01:06:47.490 --> 01:06:53.090]  The election supervisor said everything's dandy and her job is over now.
[01:06:54.190 --> 01:06:54.710]  Okay.
[01:06:54.850 --> 01:07:04.070]  And she even had an automated reply to emails saying that and giving a link to go to for all the election data.
[01:07:04.070 --> 01:07:05.930]  And the link had a typo in it.
[01:07:07.890 --> 01:07:16.890]  Well, what I would suggest, and I really don't know the facts here, but I know Pacifica WBAI has a million mailing lists.
[01:07:17.290 --> 01:07:22.310]  If you just pick one of them and get at least one other person interested in this, at least...
[01:07:22.310 --> 01:07:23.270]  Oh, I've been emailing.
[01:07:23.270 --> 01:07:26.430]  Okay, but don't take it all on yourself, is my advice.
[01:07:26.630 --> 01:07:27.750]  Get other people interested.
[01:07:28.090 --> 01:07:33.010]  And, you know, if nobody's interested, then, you know, pick your battles, I guess.
[01:07:33.170 --> 01:07:35.450]  But maybe other people will get interested.
[01:07:35.610 --> 01:07:37.390]  You can at least try with the mailing lists.
[01:07:37.550 --> 01:07:40.950]  But just be specific as to what your concerns are.
[01:07:42.470 --> 01:07:47.350]  If I forward my emails to you, might you get interested?
[01:07:47.990 --> 01:07:54.230]  I stay away from these things, like the plague, because they just envelop.
[01:07:54.670 --> 01:07:55.590]  I mean, you know this.
[01:07:55.790 --> 01:07:56.870]  You've seen it.
[01:07:57.150 --> 01:07:59.410]  What it does to people is just...
[01:07:59.410 --> 01:08:05.130]  But, you know, we will continue to offer advice and support here, and hopefully we get answers.
[01:08:06.490 --> 01:08:07.330]  I hope.
[01:08:08.670 --> 01:08:09.250]  All right.
[01:08:09.570 --> 01:08:11.610]  We've got to go, because it's after nine.
[01:08:11.830 --> 01:08:13.290]  And it's good hearing from you again, though.
[01:08:14.030 --> 01:08:14.630]  Glad you're well.
[01:08:14.790 --> 01:08:15.130]  Thank you.
[01:08:15.690 --> 01:08:15.950]  And...
[01:08:15.950 --> 01:08:23.870]  Oh, are there any of the other people with you who might be interested in figuring out what happened to the missing five votes?
[01:08:24.950 --> 01:08:25.690]  What's that, Alex?
[01:08:25.730 --> 01:08:26.410]  You're jumping up and down?
[01:08:26.510 --> 01:08:27.090]  What's going on?
[01:08:27.990 --> 01:08:28.430]  No?
[01:08:28.710 --> 01:08:30.010]  Oh, you're just jumping up and down.
[01:08:30.010 --> 01:08:31.530]  If only I had the time.
[01:08:31.750 --> 01:08:33.090]  If only I had the time.
[01:08:33.370 --> 01:08:35.470]  Okay, well...
[01:08:35.950 --> 01:08:36.390]  Likewise.
[01:08:36.810 --> 01:08:37.310]  No, that's not...
[01:08:37.310 --> 01:08:37.630]  I don't know.
[01:08:37.870 --> 01:08:40.890]  Okay, so we just have to make time for Alex somehow.
[01:08:41.950 --> 01:08:43.410]  All right, we'll figure out how to do that.
[01:08:44.370 --> 01:08:48.410]  Yeah, but, you know, just keep it a topic of conversation.
[01:08:48.830 --> 01:08:54.790]  And somebody with the access, if it is an issue, will hopefully take an interest.
[01:08:58.020 --> 01:08:58.380]  Okay.
[01:08:58.540 --> 01:08:59.960]  All right, good luck with the shot.
[01:09:00.080 --> 01:09:00.540]  Keep trying.
[01:09:01.260 --> 01:09:03.960]  I guarantee you will find something soon if you just keep trying.
[01:09:05.500 --> 01:09:06.100]  Thank you.
[01:09:06.260 --> 01:09:06.760]  All right, take care.
[01:09:06.760 --> 01:09:10.540]  And that's going to just about do it for us here tonight.
[01:09:10.560 --> 01:09:14.520]  Any final words from the folks over in Skypland?
[01:09:16.980 --> 01:09:18.780]  Oh, my goodness.
[01:09:19.200 --> 01:09:25.540]  So, people are talking about transporters and portable translation devices, which is fantastic.
[01:09:26.780 --> 01:09:31.820]  Thank you again to all of you on the chat for joining in with us this evening.
[01:09:34.000 --> 01:09:37.420]  And, yeah, everybody stay healthy and get your shots, please.
[01:09:40.460 --> 01:09:41.100]  Yes, Alex?
[01:09:41.800 --> 01:09:46.200]  I think it would be interesting to just hear an hour of radio.
[01:09:47.060 --> 01:09:50.340]  It was co-hosted by Rebel and Eleanor.
[01:09:52.500 --> 01:09:55.460]  Okay, well, you know, I'm sure they could do some fill-ins or something.
[01:09:55.920 --> 01:09:57.240]  They'll bump us right off the air.
[01:09:57.440 --> 01:09:59.520]  They'll replace us with that, for sure.
[01:09:59.760 --> 01:10:00.900]  I'm being serious, too.
[01:10:00.920 --> 01:10:02.320]  I think that would be wonderful.
[01:10:03.120 --> 01:10:04.340]  Well, I know you're being serious.
[01:10:04.420 --> 01:10:05.080]  You have no sense of humor.
[01:10:05.240 --> 01:10:06.120]  So, you definitely...
[01:10:06.120 --> 01:10:06.900]  That's exactly right.
[01:10:06.900 --> 01:10:07.980]  When you say these things.
[01:10:08.280 --> 01:10:12.040]  So, people might think it's ridiculous, and maybe it is ridiculous, but it's not a joke.
[01:10:12.180 --> 01:10:13.500]  So, don't think that.
[01:10:14.260 --> 01:10:15.040]  There you go.
[01:10:15.520 --> 01:10:15.820]  All right.
[01:10:15.840 --> 01:10:19.780]  You can write to us, O-T-H at 2600.com.
[01:10:20.220 --> 01:10:21.620]  We would be happy to hear from you.
[01:10:21.760 --> 01:10:24.140]  And, again, no content warning necessary.
[01:10:24.220 --> 01:10:27.760]  Just spit it all out, and we'll process.
[01:10:28.600 --> 01:10:30.800]  We'll be back again next week, I believe.
[01:10:30.980 --> 01:10:34.740]  And, if all goes well, next week for Overtime, in addition.
[01:10:35.720 --> 01:10:38.000]  We will talk to you then.
[01:10:38.120 --> 01:10:39.600]  Oh, by the way, I should point this out, too.
[01:10:39.820 --> 01:10:41.180]  This was our first...
[01:10:41.720 --> 01:10:47.980]  Last week was our first time ever doing a delivery of a new issue digitally.
[01:10:48.460 --> 01:10:59.980]  We had released previous issues as back issues, but this was the first time subscribers, digital subscribers, PDF, and EPUB were able to get it en masse, and it worked.
[01:10:59.980 --> 01:11:03.300]  This is something that we've been trying to develop for over a decade.
[01:11:03.640 --> 01:11:11.440]  And thanks to the efforts of Greg Newby and others, we actually were able to come up with a very unique system that works quite well.
[01:11:12.420 --> 01:11:15.060]  More details on 2600.com.
[01:11:16.020 --> 01:11:23.960]  It became necessary when Amazon decided to stop supporting magazines and really hurt a lot of smaller zines out there.
[01:11:24.480 --> 01:11:28.320]  So, hopefully, this is a way to fight back and to survive.
[01:11:28.500 --> 01:11:28.900]  We'll see.
[01:11:29.880 --> 01:11:30.280]  All right.
[01:11:30.500 --> 01:11:32.100]  We will see you in a week.
[01:11:32.220 --> 01:11:32.420]  Good night.