If you'd like to make a call, please hang up and try again.
If you need help, stay on the line, and a hacker will assist you shortly.
The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
It couldn't get much worse, but if they could, they would.
One big leap on, for the best, expect the worst.
I hope that's understood, one big leap on.
Good luck.
Thank you.
Well, today you sound a bit tinny, but other than that, you're coming through loud and clear. So where are you, Alex?
Well, that's good. I am. Well, it's one in the morning here, so it's it's very late. That's why it's so dark for you guys, not for all of our listeners.
And I am off the coast of Spain in one of the Balearic Islands known as Menorca. So I'm on the southern coast of Menorca at the moment on vacation.
Are you fleeing from something or is this just just a getaway?
No, no. Surprisingly not. No, it's just a bit of a getaway. I've been on vacation for a little bit now and started off in London and we're over in the south of France for a bit and over in Monaco, which, of course, is its own country.
And now we went over to Marseille and we're spending about a week or so in Menorca and heading over to Italy for a little bit and then and then back to New York.
Well, we look forward to your return.
Yes. Yeah. It's been a while. It'll be it'll be nice to be back. But I will tell you, this is a very extraordinary place. I've never been anywhere like this.
It's amazing. It's dotted with these prehistoric settlements that are shrouded in mystery here.
Nobody really knows about these people that lived here around 4000 years ago, but yet their settlements are still dotted around the island.
And it's it's it's a fascinating place. It's absolutely gorgeous in terms of the these coves and these waterways.
People are nice. Food is amazing. And the sun is hot. So I'm I've been definitely enjoying it.
Well, the sun is hot here, too, as well. And it's the fact that we're in the middle of a heat wave here in New York.
And Kyle and I are back from our travels out west. We were in Seattle last week.
And back in New York, it's good to be back. Good to see everybody again.
And but once again, we were met with a bit of a bit of sadness on our return.
We've mentioned this before on the radio show. And it's been mentioned throughout the New York City area because it really is a big deal.
It really is a huge deal to those of us in radio, those of us who listen to the radio, those of us who are New Yorkers.
And I'm referring, of course, to the loss of yet another radio station, WCBS Newsradio 88 station.
I grew up on station. Many of us grew up on.
And it's gone. It's gone.
And as of Sunday night, it basically was converted into yet another all sports station.
We now have five of them in New York City.
Apparently, there wasn't room for two all news stations, but there's room for five all sports stations.
I don't know what's happening to this country.
I wanted to share the last moments because I fear a lot of people may not have have heard this.
And it really it does say something that I think we all need to hear.
But I thought it particularly interesting, Kyle, you and I were listening to this as it was airing on a portable radio,
which is as you know, the way you're supposed to do it with an AM radio, even though we're many miles away from New York City,
the signal still came in and a Sunday night gathered around the radio.
It just seems so old school.
Oh, absolutely.
But that was worth in reminiscing.
And I mean, I think of the countless times I've stumbled upon it from afar overnight when the signal reaches great distance scanning around.
We've heard this beacon from the city and now that signal will not be transmitting quite as much information.
That signal will be transmitting the same sports talk that you can hear on a dozen other stations on the band.
So it's nothing unique.
But, you know, when we were traveling, let's say we were in Louisiana or Florida or Chicago at night due to a phenomenon known as sky wave interference on AM,
you can hear distant radio stations and we would tune to 880.
I've been doing this since I was a kid, tuning into that station to hear the sounds of New York, to hear familiar voices,
to hear what's going on locally, even though we may not be local at the moment.
It was a tremendous comfort.
And I really think the owners of that station underestimated how much that station meant to New Yorkers.
Because, you know, I talk to so many people from all different backgrounds and everybody is mourning its loss.
Yeah, and I think locally a lot of people might recognize its presence during inclement weather or like hazardous conditions.
That's where you would sort of coalesce and find out just facts, you know, news about what's going on with a storm or aftermath in your area.
9-11, plane crashes, all kinds of crises, elections, things like that.
That was where you went.
It was the backbone of New York City.
I don't hesitate to say that because it was something that was always there, 24 hours a day, always with familiar voices telling you just what's going on.
Anyway, one of those familiar voices is named Wayne Cabot.
He was the last voice on the air.
He was a familiar voice to many of us who listened to WCBS.
I'd like to play the last couple of minutes of WCBS before it went silent forever.
All of us here knew that our audience is engaged and smart,
and we need to treat our audience with the respect that a well-informed, well-educated news consumer deserves.
That's right, deserves.
Our news desert is getting bigger and drier.
And just like we should get a second medical opinion,
we need to seek out more and more varied news sources that we trust,
because getting your information without the bias and brainwashing in one place has given way to a fight to stay informed.
With each closing newspaper, radio newsroom, TV newsroom, magazine, and now even digital news operations,
the country we love, is diminished.
So as we leave the news ecosystem after 57 years of all news and 100 years of service on New York radio,
we implore you to find that next trusted source.
Use it.
Support it.
In word and deed.
It is the most patriotic thing you can do.
And the most satisfying.
To paraphrase a CBS news legend, good night and good luck.
You will ask, why does this radio station mean so much?
Why is the reaction the way it is?
And I really can't speak for others.
I can speak for myself.
My parents split when I was 11.
We split Christmas.
And when I was at Dad's house, he gave me a clock.
And this one had a beam at the top that shined the time onto the ceiling.
I wanted to make sure it was set correctly,
so I went to the station I heard in the back of the car, WCBS,
to make sure the time was exactly right.
And I listened and listened, and before long, I became hooked.
As a 12, 13-year-old, when I was 14, my dad drove me to the radio station
in New York City during morning rush hour traffic.
And he introduced me to the place I'm now signing off in 2024.
Ray Martell, here's your last request.
Chris Alvaro, Ben Mavereck, Ivan Lee, our bosses,
pushed for and got the authority to let us have our goodbyes,
to have a last show.
That's something very rare.
I thank them for that.
And I thank my dad for driving me into New York City in 1978.
Parents, you never know what impact
these random acts of love and attention may have on your children.
I'm Wayne Cabot, and for the final time,
this is WCBS New York.
And they were gone.
It chokes me up just hearing that every time.
It's one of the most moving moments in radio I can recall.
And so sad.
So very sad.
It's a radio station, but those of us in radio
understand the importance of having a voice,
having a place that you can tune to
and hear what is going on.
And unfortunately, with companies owning multiple radio stations
and not understanding exactly...
WHSQ and WCBS FM.
That's the replacement station signed on
after about a minute of silence.
Yeah, all sports now.
All sports forever and ever.
These companies, they take over,
and they don't get it.
They don't understand what radio is.
They don't understand the allegiance that listeners have.
We get that here at WBAI.
And in fact, I talk about this often,
where WBAI has survived through so many format changes.
I think I went through all the FM stations
a number of years ago.
But now, I dare say that includes AM stations as well.
I never thought a station like WCBS would disappear,
but it's gone, and we're still here.
And that means something.
That means something to our listeners.
That means something to us as an entity.
And it's really why you need to hold on to these things,
not let them go.
Remember the idiots who tried to shut us down
a couple of years ago?
There are always forces out there
that don't understand what the relationship is
between a radio station and its audience.
And they just look for the bottom line.
They just look for something that makes sense
to them business-wise.
But, you know, the listeners are the ones who suffer.
And I dare say in this particular case,
that is exactly what happened.
I was wondering, any of you guys
listened to that last broadcast or were aware of it?
Rob?
I was aware it was happening.
I didn't listen to it live.
But I'm glad you played the clip
because I felt bad about missing that.
And, yeah, as a New Yorker,
I grew up with WCBS.
It was where you went.
It got my family and I through so many hurricanes,
blackouts, the September 11th attacks,
and just mundane days as well.
It was always there.
It was a mainstay.
And it's always strange
when something so interwoven
with your media environment
is no longer there.
You don't really think about
what it would be like
to not have something like that
until you don't.
Yeah, they did play
the Joni Mitchell song, by the way.
You don't know what you've got
until it's gone.
But it's so true.
It really is true.
And just to make it clear here,
this is not an anti-change rant.
Change is often good.
Often it's the best thing.
But so are the consistent things,
the traditions, the steadiness.
And sometimes those are cast aside
way too easily.
And we don't think about
what the effects of losing
these important traditions is.
Yeah, it might make sense for the moment.
But, you know, to me,
it doesn't make any sense
because the station was turned over
to ESPN.
Do they not know that there already
is an ESPN station on the AM dial?
There already is one.
Now there are two.
Two ESPN stations on the AM,
and a third one on FM.
And they also have another sports station,
WFAN, which is owned by the same people
who own WCBS,
but is not affiliated with ESPN,
and an FM version of that.
It's ridiculous.
You know, we're sports crazy.
We really are.
Don't tell me that there isn't room
for two all-news stations
in New York City.
There's a lot of news out there.
There is so much news.
There's no way you could cover it all.
Look, here at BAI,
we always find something to talk about
because there is no shortage of content.
We get that here.
That's why we survive,
because there aren't any commercial entities
breathing down our necks,
telling us you've got to, you know,
make this amount of money
in the next commercial break,
or else, well,
we're going to change to country music.
No, it doesn't work that way
in non-commercial radio.
Commercial radio, unfortunately,
doesn't get that.
And that's why you have tragedies
like this,
like the loss of an important station.
You know, you always want to see
things like, you know,
the New York Times.
You always want to see
the next issue of that.
You know, you always want to hear
Mr. Softee coming around the corner.
These are old things.
These are traditions.
And you might be able to streamline it
and make it better
and make more money off of it,
but is that really an improvement?
And the radio dial is poorer today
as a result.
I think that's a great lesson, too,
for the, like, ideas
and sort of being the standard bearer,
the mainstay, as Rob put it,
that, you know, it takes,
there's, we do what we do here at WBAI,
and there is a lot of effort
that it takes to produce
and have a diversity of views
in that part of radio,
but it's not enough.
You know, there's,
it's underfunded,
and it takes, you know,
good newsrooms and staffing,
and there is a loss here
from that commercial news effort.
And if it's not viable,
I think really should take
an honest look at what is becoming,
what the media landscape,
what the various forms of media
are becoming
with, like, very realistic views.
And I think that's something
Wayne Cabot was able to speak to
in those final moments of WCBS,
something that I'm not sure
his bosses were nervous about him
even saying in the first place
about how newsrooms are being shuttered,
newspapers, and even digital media.
We're seeing it there, too.
And it results in just maybe
a single voice
or something that is disinformation.
Or, yeah, disinformation
in that standard bearer
not being there.
You have entities
that can acquire it
and manage it at a certain scale,
but do they adhere
to the same
sorts of journalistic integrity
and standards?
And what is their mission
in any way
in approximation
of what is lost?
And that's so,
so glaring
in these moments.
You become better
by comparing yourself
to that which came before you.
And that doesn't always mean
that you wipe away
what came before you.
Sometimes you coexist.
Do we really want to see
60 Minutes disappear?
Do we really want to not see
new sources
of investigative news reporting?
We want to see both.
We want to see the old
exist with the new.
Go ahead, Rob.
You had a point?
Yeah.
I think this just speaks
to the state
of commercial radio
at this time
because one important factor
of this change
is that this wasn't
a sale of the station.
This wasn't a change of hands.
The same massive company
that owned the station
before the changeover
still owns it.
They just decided
we'd rather not spend
the money on news,
on, you know,
supporting a newsroom,
supporting journalism.
Let's just,
let's just throw
this other stuff on there
and, you know,
that's how we're going
to make our money
from now on.
Well, it's interesting
you say that.
It's called LMA.
It's like a lease.
In fact,
there was pressure
for WBAI to do that
a number of years ago.
Fortunately,
we didn't do that.
But what that means
is another entity
takes over your programming.
You still retain the license,
but they are actually
in charge of what goes
out over the air.
So, yeah,
this does expire
at some point.
In fact,
one of the all-sports stations,
98.7,
one of the ESPN stations,
they have an LMA
that expires
at the end of this month
and that station
is going to change formats
to something else.
So,
it's possible.
880 could come back someday.
You know,
I don't hold out much hope
based on the mentality
of people
who own these places.
You know,
it bugged me
from the start
when I heard
that WINS,
the other all-news station,
and WCBS
were owned
by the same company
called,
it's pronounced Odyssey,
it's not spelled Odyssey,
it looks like Audacity,
but it's not that either.
They made up a word
because they couldn't
think of a word.
That's what we're
dealing with here.
But,
you know,
to have both
of the all-news stations
owned and run
by the same company,
that was a problem.
But it wasn't a problem
that there wasn't
enough news,
it was a problem
that one entity
was running both of them.
And this is the result
of that.
One company should not
own competing radio stations.
That should be
different companies.
And I think
that's the problem here.
But,
you know,
and Alex,
I'd like to speak
to this with you
because you've been
to London many times.
London is the place
where I see
the old
and the new together.
And people seem
to really get that.
You know,
I can go to London
in 20 years
and it'll be recognizable.
But there will be
a lot of new technology,
a lot of advancements.
And I think
this is true
of the UK in general.
They hold on
to tradition.
And sometimes
it's bad tradition,
sometimes it's good tradition.
But it always
results in knowing
a little bit
about history
and not just
going blindly
into the future.
Do you feel
the same way?
I think so.
I think I do.
And I think
we see that a lot
with,
you know,
perhaps how
the United Kingdom
also treats the BBC
as a news source
and as some place
where you can
hopefully find
some form
of objective
reporting
that can be trusted
over and over
and over again.
We also see this
on the streets
with the London
telephone boxes.
You know,
in New York
we have no traces
of payphones
left anymore.
You know,
we have these
goddamn link
NYC kiosks
everywhere
that nobody
really uses
that are eyesores.
They're getting bigger.
Yeah,
these massive
5G antennas
like the one
in the East Village.
They're growing.
Have you seen this?
Massive 5G antennas.
No.
They're horrible.
And they have
little kiosks
at the bottom
that are supposed
to placate you,
I suppose.
And they're just
giant screens
blaring advertisements
at you
as you walk past.
Just another
space
that used to
belong to the public
that is now
being sold
to advertisers.
Which is exactly
what has happened
with the radio station
with me.
I mean,
it's sad.
I'm so glad
that you played
that clip though,
Emanuel,
because it was
very emotional
for me to hear
that as well.
I was wondering
how they were
going to sign off
and being up here
in Europe
for the last
couple of weeks
it's been
different.
But I'd love
to hear
what Wayne Cabot
did.
he talked
about this
diminishing number
of objective
news sources
and why that's
a problem
and how
you need to
find that
news source,
you need to
find that station,
you need to
find that
constant
on the dial
and support it
and how he
connected that
to patriotism
I thought was
particularly
brilliant
and so
apt
these days
as well
because
we need
this well-informed
populace
to have a
democracy
and we're
losing
that ability
to maintain
a well-informed
populace
that is not
subject to the
biases of
one particular
political tribe
or another
and finding
that station
making sure
that you have
it,
that it's a
constant in your
life,
someplace like
WBI where
you can hear
and I think
people would
not be wrong
to consider
this station
obviously to be
a progressive
station,
a left-leaning
station
in many ways
but we do
present
viewpoints
on both
sides of the
dial
and I hope
that we have
a lot of
objective dialogue
and I think
we have that
on this show
in particular
I like to
think so
yeah,
I like to
think so too
I mean
it's why
oftentimes
we fight
and picker
a bit
on the air
and disagree
about things
we don't
we don't
exactly my
point
but I thought
it was great
I really do
it was a great
sign off
we're going
to miss
that station
very very
very much
and it
reminds me
and I always
hark back to
this
when you think
about the
I think the
jewel in the
FM dial that
WBAI is
but remember
almost 25 years
ago now
we almost lost
WBAI in a very
similar manner
we almost lost
BAI three years
ago
or whatever year
that was
it's always
happening
in one way
or another
always happening
but it was
such a threat
25 years ago
when those
corporate interests
took over
the Pacifica
National Board
and the idea
was to sell
the license
to a commercial
entity
and just
think about
what the last
25 years
would be like
without WBAI
on the air
I think
when it comes
to supporting
WBAI
we need to
think about
the next
25 years
and that's
my plug
that's my
weekly plug
I think you
nailed it though
as far as
identifying
what was being
said in those
final moments
at WCBS
because it
echoes what
we say here
at WBAI
as well
and it shows
how when
you're in
the business
in whatever
form
whether commercial
or non-commercial
you get it
you get the
fact that
this is
precious
this is
something
that is
fragile
and so
important
to democracy
the source
of news
finding
different
voices
and
just
educating
yourself
and it's
always a
threat
it's always
something
that is
on the
verge
of being
wiped
out
either
politically
or
commercially
and
there are
so few
people that
have the
privilege
of speaking
on New York
City radio
that I feel
we all have
this kind
of brotherhood
as far as
just being
in an
experience
together
so it's
it's
it's
really
it's
it's
a sad
day
but as
you say
WBAI
is a
jewel
on the
FM dial
and of
course
we only
exist
because of
our listeners
and we
hope that
you
support us
by going
to give
to
WBAI
dot
org
and
pledging
pledging
whatever you
can afford
pledge a
huge amount
so that
we don't
have to
worry
about this
and
can stay
on the
FM dial
pledge
tell your
rich friends
and relatives
to pledge
to keep
WBAI
on the
air
and
thriving
and
it's
it's so
important
it really
is
all right
we have
other things
to talk
about
tonight
and of
course
we have
overtime
coming up
afterwards
on YouTube
at 8 o'clock
and that
is something
that we
haven't done
in a while
because
well
a lot
of us
have been
away
and
it's
been
kind
of
crazy
but
in the
interim
since
we've
been
away
what's
happened
okay
so
social
security
numbers
apparently
have
all been
stolen
yeah
I've
seen
this story
many many
times
now
I've
seen
all
kinds
of
newspaper
articles
asking
was my
social
security
number
stolen
and
how
you
can
find
out
if
your
social
security
number
was
affected
and
here
at
off
the
hook
we
have
the
means
for
you
to
do
that
and
basically
I'm
going to
ask you
a question
do you
have a
social
security
number
you're
all
nodding
yes
then
your
social
security
number
was
affected
that's
it
that's
all
and
they
were
affected
the
moment
you
started
giving
them
to
people
that
were
not
part
of
social
security
now
it's
not
your
fault
it's
not
your
fault
you
were
told
to
give
it
to
the
banks
you
were
told
to
give
it
to
the
phone
company
hell
I've
been
told
to
give
it
to
volunteer
organizations
who
are
taking
down
your
name
and
just
add
social
security
number
as
something
normal
that
people
ask
for
it's
ridiculous
but
it's
supposed
to be
for
social
security
well
it's
not
and
you
didn't
lose
it
you
didn't
compromise
it
the
people
you
entrusted
with
it
did
and
this
company
how many
of you
have
heard
of
this
national
public
data
you
know
the
first
few
times
I
read
the
story
I
just
assumed
it
was
national
public
radio
for
some
reason
why
they
would
have
social
security
numbers
but
no
national
public
data
never
heard
of
them
before
but
they're
a
background
check
company
they're
owned
by
Jericho
Pictures
yeah
okay
I
this is
all news
to
me
2.9
billion
personal
records
may have
been
exposed
that's
a lot
more
than
there
are
people
in
the
United
States
other
reports
suggest
the
amount
of
records
leaked
may
have
been
more
than
2.7
billion
that's
an
awful
lot
either
way
in
an
official
data
breach
notice
filed
in
Maine
national
public
data
indicated
1.3
million
records
may
have
been
breached
said
James
E.
Lee
chief
operating
officer
at
identity
theft
resource
organization
focused
on
mitigating
risks
of
identity
breaches
and
theft
it
is
entirely
possible
that it
is that
low
it's
also
entirely
possible
it's
higher
they said
of the
number
of
people
affected
now
the
information
breached
may have
included
social security
numbers
names
email
addresses
phone
numbers
mailing
addresses
that's
according to
national
public
data
who
states
this
on
their
website
a
third
party
bad
actor
may
have
hacked
into
the
data
in
December
with
potential
leaks
of
the
information
in
April
and
over
this
summer
national
public
data
did
not
return
a
request
for
comment
by
the
Associated
Press
actually
I'm
sorry
by
CNBC
so
the
question
here
is
can
you
be
affected
even
if
you've
never
heard
of
national
public
data
what
kind
of
a
question
is
that
if
only
ignorance
kept
you
kept
you
safe
but
yeah
I
never
heard
of
national
public
data
and
yet
I
know
that
my
number
is
likely
affected
they
are
a
background
check
company
that
provides
information
either
through
legitimate
sources
or by
scraping
it
off
the
web
and
because
the
data
is
collected
more
casually
I'm
sorry
yes
casually
it
can
be
gathered
without
consumers
permission
and
outside
of
certain
regulations
and
as
a
result
it
may
be
inaccurate
or
outdated
there's
no easy
way out
of this
one
we
can't
all
change
our
numbers
and
I
think
it's
a
lesson
in
how
data
is
vulnerable
and
how
much
we
rely
on
these
things
there
is
no
way
to
really
know
if
your
number
is
being
compromised
or
used
against
you
but
it
is
yet
another
piece
of
digital
information
that's
out
there
I
think
you
can
change
your
number
you
can
but
we
can't
all
change
our
numbers
well
I
think
you
can
all
change
your
numbers
too
and
what
I
mean
is
depending
on
who's
asking
like
if
you
think
it's
one
of
these
goofy
companies
like
wrong
headedly
asking
you
stuff
there's
business
certainly
not
public
data
as
is
their
namesake
why
not
pick
one
of
the
numbers
and
make
it
off
by
a
couple
oh
I've
done
that
you
know
and
just
maybe
you
know
it's
one
that
looks
like
another
number
something
like
that
and
then
see
what
happens
see
if
they're
just
outright
collecting
it
or
if
they're
actually
running
it
through
some
verification
system
I
think
they
are
I
I
I
did
lie
to
the
phone
company
once
and
I
got
away
with
it
but
I'm
not
sure
I
could
do
that
today
I
would
lie
in
as
many
places
as
possible
I
agree
so
it's
wrong
in
as
many
of
these
pools
of
data
collection
whatever
business
practices
they have
when
they're
selling
or
remarketing
them
or
gaining
something
some
kind
of
insight
but
I
don't
think
unless
they
can
really
cite
some
kind
of
regulation
or
something
why
necessarily
do you
what is
the
consequence
of you
failing
this
kind
of
check
you
raise
a
very
good
point
Kyle
who's
going
to
be
upset
well
that's
the
question
I
suppose
here's
the
fact
credit
agencies
have
this
information
they
have
your
SSN
they
shouldn't
I
think
it
should
only
be
in
the
social
security
administration
not
credit
agencies
but
anyone
who
runs a
credit
check
on
you
whether
you're
applying
for a
credit
card
or
loan
or
trying
to
get
an
apartment
they're
going
to
look
that
up
and
if
the
number
doesn't
match
they'll
probably
say
something
but
what
I
suggest
based
on
your
words
is
that
people
just
make
a
little
clerical
error
and
reverse
the
last
two
numbers
of
their
social
security
number
whenever
they
are
asked
for
it
by
a
non-government
agency
obviously
you know
the IRS
knows
the
SSN
social
security
agency
and
they're
going
to
expect
to get
it right
but
you know
somebody
that you're
renting an apartment
from
maybe won't
do that
so there's
no reason
to have
your number
out
to
everybody
who asks
for it
go ahead
Rob
so I
did want
to mention
that there
is
a site
that has
been put
up
with a
copy
of the
data
that you
can
use
to check
to see
if your
information
is in
the breach
and how
do you
check
you check
by putting
in your
first and
last names
the state
you lived
in
and your
year of
birth
and it'll
search
the database
and if
you
then see
a list
of places
you have
lived
then you're
in there
so
isn't that
true of
everybody
I mean
whenever
you get
asked to
verify
your address
you're given
a choice
of four
or five
addresses
and one
of them
is one
you lived
in
so I
assume
that's
the way
it's
supposed
to be
working
but how
does that
prove
if your
social security
number
has been
compromised
your social
security
is also
shown
in the
results
but only
the last
two
digits
the rest
is
asterisks
to not
put your
full info
on the
screen
but it
does let
you know
that the
info
is in
there
and
know
that
for
sure
not
for
sure
so
one
in
a
hundred
chance
they'll
get
that
right
yeah
but I
think we
could give
this
address
out
for
anyone
who's
ready
to
write
it
down
if
not
we'll
put
this
up
on
social
media
as
well
the
site
is
npd.pentester.com
slash
search
that's
n as in
nancy
p
d
dot
p
e
n
t
e
s
t
e
r
dot
com
slash
search
okay
now
with
that
alphabet
soup
of
letters
there
do
we
know
anything
about
the
people
running
this
yeah
they
are
they
are
a
security
company
who
have
gotten
hold
of
this
and
put
up
this
tool
I
see
they've
gotten
a hold
of
it
because
it's
that
out
there
that
people
can
just
get
a hold
of
it
that's
that's
kind
of
scary
that's
kind
of
disheartening
there
all
right
interest
to
you
I
just
stumbled
upon
this
you
may
not
ride
an
electric
bicycle
but
that
doesn't
mean
you're
safe
from
hackers
oh
this
is
a
story
in
Forbes
that
wants
to
scare
the
crap
out
of
you
security
researchers
have
revealed
critical
vulnerabilities
that
can
enable
a
hacker
to
take
control
of
the
latest
gear
shifting
technology
changing
or
jamming
gears
from
as
far
as
32
feet
away
in
their
makeshift
security
analysis
of
shimano
di2
wireless
gear
shifting
in
bicycles
research
paper
presented
during
the
woot
conference
on
offensive
technologies
why don't
I know
about
that
conference
the
woot
conference
on
offensive
technologies
and
it
spells
woot
too
if
you
look
at
the
names
there
that
was
presented
earlier
this
month
Mary
Mary
M
model
big
homie
and
john
ranganathan
from
northeastern
university
and
erlince
fernandez
from
uc
san
diego
address
the
potential
security
issues
surrounding
the use
of
wireless
gear
shifting
technology
in
modern
bicycles
okay
here's
another
example
of
why
you
don't
have
to
make
everything
an
app
you
don't
have
to
make
everything
wireless
now
people
can
shift
your
damn
bicycle
when
you're
riding
it
i don't
care if
you're
32
feet
away
or
100
miles
away
that's
just
not
something
we
need
the
kicker
is that
these
bicycles
i mean
if you're
buying
a bicycle
with
these
components
you're
probably
spending
a heck
of a lot
of money
and
to
fall
victim
to
this
could
damage
a lot
of the
components
or
put
your
life
in
grave
danger
if
it's
jammed
up
and
you
need
to
be
moving
so
yeah
it is
interesting
because
a lot
of
the
higher
tech
multi
speed
bikes
employ
this
and sort
of
like
any
kind
of
well
I think
I noticed
it first
in
cyclocomputers
which are
the speedometer
type things
you would
have like
a little
wire running
down to
a magnet
in a lot
of the
older designs
and then
they began
to take
those like
little coin
cell batteries
and use
like some
kind of
wireless
scheme
and now
that sort
of evolved
even
into the
shifting
to say
nothing of
powered
bicycles
why
I don't
tell me
the advantage
of this
I honestly
on the bicycle
for god's sake
you can't
shift
exactly
I guess
because it
uses less
materials
and there's
an emphasis
on weight
I don't know
they can
make up
all kinds
of reasons
why this
is desirable
there's less
sort of
routing
of
a cable
or
electrical
wire
to go
from
a little
controller
all the way
back
to where
the actual
wheel is
maybe
it could
be susceptible
to damage
so then
it would
fail
if the
wires
were
exposed
and
not
integrated
which takes
more
design
planning
that's life
sometimes
things break
it's over
engineering
yeah
I mean
totally
without
coming up
with a way
to mitigate
this
or
protect it
from the
sorts of
interference
or even
jamming
and I wonder
if this comes
up
during
big races
and
competitive
stuff
has this
been employed
for some
sort of
sabotage
well
no doubt
it will
be used
as a
target
of
sabotage
but it's
yet another
example
of
blindly
diving
into
new
technology
that isn't
needed
and it
has a lot
of disadvantages
compared to
whatever
advantages
it offers
you see
the same
thing
with cars
you know
you see
the same
thing
with virtually
any
device
where somebody
feels
it's necessary
that this
thing be
connected
to the
internet
even though
there's
absolutely
no reason
it has
to be
look
at least
give people
the opportunity
to completely
opt out
so that
they don't
have to
deal with
your
experiments
you know
that's
not that
much to
ask for
go ahead
Rob
yeah
I mean
I'm pretty
dubious
about the
internet of
things
stuff
in general
but I
realize that
sometimes
okay
you'd like
a remote
control for
your TV
so you
don't have
to walk
across the
room
and change
the channel
you'd like
to you
know
have
Alexa
or whatever
start up
your air
conditioning
so it's
cool when
you get
home
but if
you are
too far
away from
the shifter
on your
bike
to shift
it manually
you are
not on
your bike
and don't
need to
be shifting
it
but
okay
I'm going
to put
this out
there
I'm going
to admit
something
to all
of you
and to
all of
our
listeners
and because
this gets
archived
forever
I'm admitting
it for
posterity
all right
there's no
turning back
there's no
turning back
so you sure
I cannot
shift gears
I never
managed to
do it
effectively
I can only
ride a
one speed
bike
I can only
drive an
automatic
transmission
car
so I am
willing to
say that
this sort
of thing
might come
in handy
for someone
like me
who never
figured out
the nuts
and bolts
of how to
do the
shifting
myself
that might
be helpful
for one
such as
myself
it's
literally
pulling a
lever
it's just
pushing
on something
the timing
of it
I would
counterpoint
you by
saying
if you
would like
a digital
solution
to this
it could
be in
a little
computer
that is
on the
bike
it doesn't
need to
be online
it doesn't
need to
be open
to online
attacks
it doesn't
need to
have to
deal with
network
security
I don't
disagree
with you
at all
I'm also
perfectly
happy with
a fixie
I'm kind
of a hipster
in that
way
but
no
there's
no
there's
no
defensible
explanation
for something
like this
I was
just
pointing out
that I
don't
actually
know how
to shift
gears
on a
bike
or a
car
or anything
else
I think
we can
get you
past this
you shifted
the gears
in this
conversation
that's
for sure
there's
no
reason
really
to
employ
common
protocols
without
some
kind
of
consideration
for this
especially
for
systems
that are
supposed
to be
the top
of the
line
right
well
on the
last top
of the
line
these are
some of
the dumbest
things ever
things that you
would not
ever expect to do
this is like in
the bells and
whistles
territory
yeah sometimes
you don't need
bells and
whistles
well you
should have a
bell on your
bicycle
definitely a
bell
not controlled
by somebody
else
you can
control the
bell
yourself
and Gila
if you can
ring a
bell on a
bicycle
it's pretty
much the
same motion
as shifting
but I'm
not trying
to shame
you
I'm just
saying that
you probably
can shift
you just
haven't
successfully
done it
yet
and you
know
what Rob
says is
correct
it can be
done
right there
on the
bike
it can be
the equivalent
of an
automatic
car
an automatic
bike
it's certainly
possible
and there
are different
ways
I mean if it
was just a
button
you'd have no
trouble doing
that
you'd say I
want to shift
now press the
button and
it would shift
for you
Alex we
see you now
yeah I
go ahead
oh you
okay good
I was I
was wondering
I guess I
was off
camera
something and
it's weird
here it's
the internet's
a bit spotty
this this whole
thing seems
totally insane
to me
it sounds
to me
I don't
well first
off I'd like
to know a
little bit more
about how the
attack would
work but I
think Kyle's on
the right path
here in that
the protocol
itself seems
like it may
have some
kind of
inherent
vulnerability
and I
would venture
to guess
that it
would be
susceptible
to some
kind of
spoofing
or replay
attack so
that you
can send
essentially
what would
amount to
the same
signal over
to the
bike and
let's say
it would
shift from
fifth gear
into first
gear or
something like
that where
you could
foul up the
gears and
it seems
particularly
dangerous too
perhaps you
could set up
some kind of
gateway with a
32 foot attack
vector that
would go across
the street so
you could say
you could have
this type of
attack set up
on 7th Avenue
and anybody
riding one of
these bikes
would have
their gears
shifted back
to first
gear but
that's possible
that's really
really dangerous
because if
you're moving
at quite a
clip which
these electric
bicycles very
often do and
then have your
gears shifted
on you down
to a much
lower gear that
could be
extraordinarily
dangerous
you know
and I will
tell you one
thing that I
I'm just saying
there are people
there are people
in Manhattan
that will sign
up for that
service to stop
the delivery
drivers delivery
riders you know
they complain
that they go
too fast and
pedestrians are
endangered by
them so they'll
say yeah that
sounds good to
me let's let's
get them into
first gear make
it mandatory and
yeah people will
be eager to do
that however wrong
it is go ahead
finish your thought
oh no no doubt
you know and if
this type of
protocol let's
say is then
implemented more
widely on on
electric bikes like
the city bike
electric bikes that
we find all over
the city you know
then we have this
widespread safety
issue that you
know that that
could affect tens
of thousands of
people and becomes
a real problem
because the one
thing that I've
found being a
denizen of Manhattan
is that these
electronic bikes and
often in particular
the city bikes are
operated mostly by
idiots so you know
that's that becomes
a problem and people
should also wear
helmets that's that's
just my thing
yeah and Kyle's as
well nobody rides a
city bike wears a
helmet why why is
that yeah and they
often have headphones
in yeah that's not a
helmet that's not
going to protect you
at all yeah there's
nothing cool about
brain injuries yeah
um okay so this
story I believe Rob
you you found this
story from the
Associated Press
police officers are
starting to use AI
chatbots to write
crime reports oh boy
body camera captured
every word and um
and bark uttered as
as police sergeant
Matt Gilmore and
his canine dog Gunner
searched for a group
of suspects for nearly
an hour uh normally
the Oklahoma City
police sergeant would
grab his laptop and
spend another 30 to
45 minutes writing up
a report about the
search but this time
he had artificial
intelligence write the
first draft I pulled
from all the sounds and
radio chatter picked up
by the microphone
attached to Gilmore's
body camera and the
AI tool churned out a
report in eight
seconds he said it
was a better report
than I could have
ever written and it
was 100% accurate it
flowed better it even
documented a fact he
didn't remember hearing
and other officers
mentioned of the color
of the car the
suspects ran from
Oklahoma City's
police department is
one of a handful to
experiment with AI
chatbots to produce
the first drafts of
incident reports police
officers who've tried
it are enthused about
the time-saving
technology while some
prosecutors police
watchdogs and legal
scholars have concerns
about how it could
alter a fundamental
document in the
criminal justice system
that plays a role in
who gets prosecuted or
imprisoned it's built
with the same technology
as chat GPT and sold
by Axon best known for
developing the taser
and as the dominant
U.S. supplier of body
cameras it could become
what Gilmore describes
as another game changer
for police work
Alex I'd love to hear
your thoughts on this
yeah sure I mean this
also seems really
really problematic here
and it's a use of
technology in a place
where it shouldn't be
used because it can
affect fundamental
rights of people we
think that chat GPT
type technology any of
these GPTs or large
language models are
essentially a very
advanced form of
predictive text and
that artificial
intelligence is as we
see it today may look
and feel a lot like
actual intelligence but
it is nothing more than
applied statistics so we
shouldn't be looking in
the past at what words
came naturally next to
each other and generating
police reports about
incidents that just
happened on the basis of
statistics or some kind of
analysis it's really very
very troubling it also
seems like well you know
another perhaps unpopular
opinion in some circles
would be that we very often
don't find the brightest bulbs
on the planet on police
forces and it seems like now
that the barrier to entry to
becoming a police officer has
just gotten lower as well and
that to me is extraordinarily
scary because what we
should be expecting of
police officers is is a
full and comprehensive
account that they
themselves have created in
a literate and logical and
comprehensive manner you know
and it seems like writing and
literacy are perhaps now
going to become after
thoughts when it comes to
policing that to me is the
scariest part of the story
that that Rob found and
shared I can't get over the
fact that this is developed by
the same people that make
tasers that's that's
problematic for me yeah
that's weird there's so
many companies could be
doing this and and that's
the one they chose go ahead
Rob yeah this is amazing
that this is even being
considered as a thing that
might have some possibility
of being okay it is so far
from okay first of all if
you're a police officer and
you cannot write a report I
would say that is something
to be very worried about if
the police officer could not
describe what just happened
and what they did how are
they supposed to do that on
the stand in court and you
know if they cannot write a
full sentence that describe
something how is that
supposed to you know to
instill any confidence in the
system but also as you said
this this large language model
stuff is computers guessing
and I do not need a legal
account of something that just
happened to me to be guessed
at by a computer just because it
read a bunch of other police
reports this is terrifying that
anyone's even considering
this and I think that to
answer your question about
appearing in court I think
somebody will push having the
AI chatbot appear in court so
that they can answer more
succinctly the questions posed
to them we're moving into some
scary days folks we definitely
are we need to stay awake and
alert and and pay close
attention that's super
important
um oth at 2600.com is our
email address and again I want
to encourage people to support
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hopefully all right uh we're going
to continue the conversation over on
overtime uh go to 2600.com to see
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go to channel 2600 on youtube and
you will find us there and you should
also find us back here again in a
week good night everyone give it to
them
not respect and praise to the creator
over the years it seems that i became a
landmark in the hip-hop feel of art i
shed light yet my skin is dark i'm not
concerned with crime in the chart cause
why should you pay when it comes from
the heart i'll start there's only job
we're creating i'll just name it
edutainment people sit and they look at
my album like a problem they try to solve
them they don't know it only leads the
way to a bright more positive day by
itself it's not the bright day sit up
straight and hear what i say fearing
ignorance i'm down for stopping this
but the bright day is your consciousness
i'm a poet my words will heal you i'm not
a phony i'll really feel you that's why
i walk and talk to my nation wherever
they are in any situation they usually
ask for an autograph and i'll whip out the
pen and just write blast master k-r-s-o-n-e-b-d-p
peace and unity but do not concentrate on
the paper concentrate on the laws of the
creator cause when the paper's gone it
will deceive you but all i will never leave
nothing i say now is hypothetical these are the facts a little metaphysical
we are one every heart every lung so why then was the black man hung
he was hung by the so-called christians that went to church
and did not listen see jesus couldn't stand politics
so they nailed him to the crucifix then it was that way today it's a trigger
so why is the book such a political figure i don't know but it's really beyond me
but through knowledge they'll never con me
that's from jesus christ to right now
every time a black man speaks up kapow
see people concentrate on the leader
and not the message coming through the speaker
if the christians really heard christ
the black man never would have lived his life
my point is that do not concentrate
on what i say create or debate
i might be great and you might admire
but what i say is to take you much higher
more higher than the physical plane
to the plane of forces and the astral plane
the mental plane and the final three
they're all around you yet you can't see
so grab the sphere of life and aim it
and you'll be guided by edutainment
all right
that's a surprise
too
to have a great
for you
to have a great
screw
what i've done
and i finally
and i finally
people
we
Thank you.