and there's just a mood around around the whole town that was just different you know it was hard to put your finger on it people weren't you know openly sobbing or going hysterical in the streets but you could feel kind of a quiet that isn't normally there in New York and just kind of an intensity there's kind of this look that you know I'm going from point A to point B and there'll be no deviations today.
there were all kinds of everywhere there were all kinds of everywhere there were all kinds of vehicles all kinds of fire department and medical personnel and police everywhere going in every direction north south east west they're going every place blocking streets
and eventually we made it all kinds of fire department and eventually we made it all the way down here and eventually we made it all the way down here.
the air was really really thick with all kinds of debris you had to have something covering your face or it would have been impossible to breathe.
and unfortunately by the time we got here which was right about 8 o'clock it was close to 8
we found out that in fact power had been lost to this building and a couple of others in the immediate area and the radio station had been evacuated about an hour hour or two hours earlier and so while our transmitter remained unaffected our transmitter was broadcasting just fine there was no audio signal to the transmitter so basically what that amounted to was silence going over the radio which unfortunately was the one thing that
but I think we needed to have more than silence obviously in a time like this and we spent the rest of the night just kind of wandering around just looking at things looking at the reaction I guess just seeing all these emergency vehicles in every part of the city and seeing people you know strangers friends people that just all of a sudden meant a whole lot more you know
you know small talk or talking about the devastation or talking about anything just being glad to be around where you could talk to these individual people and it took a long time to get home too because of the aforementioned parking in the wrong part of Queens and taking two hours to find where I actually did park but after that I just kind of kind of didn't feel like going out again for a while
I just felt like I guess what a lot of us have been feeling over the past past several days just kind of wanting to hibernate wanting to get away from from all of this wanting to see people and just you know hang out and prize the the quiet times the times with the people that didn't realize mattered so much and it was it was an eye-opener in many many ways because here's something that all
all of us all of us all of us were familiar with we had all seen the twin towers of Manhattan there was something we grew up with something we became accustomed to it was New York and within the space of a couple of hours they were destroyed completely wiped off the face of the earth and everybody inside along with them and made you realize how no matter how big something is there's nothing permanent about it it can be wiped off the face of the earth
just like that and at the same time I realize that all the small things that we take for granted they matter more than anything and that's kind of what I've been doing over the last week not a whole lot of work not a whole lot of anything I guess defined in our society as productive but a lot of a lot of seeking of comfort and I think that's what many of us in New York have been doing
to talk to talk to people here both in the studio and people over the phone see how we made out how we're going to make out in the future I'm glad this place is still here I'm sorry for all the time that we were off the air I wish we could have done more
from the off the hook archives September 18th 2001 the week after the 9-11 attacks and you know it was a very personal thing for me very personal thing for everybody I think those are the interesting stories we're all very familiar with them how we responded as a nation how the world responded but I think the more interesting stories are
the individual ones what we felt as people and I'd like to open it up to everybody here if you choose and of course you know something private and personal you have every right to keep that to yourself
but if anyone wants to say where they were on September 11th 2001 please please raise your hand Alex I see your hand is up
yeah sure that was that was something to to to listen to Emmanuel it really wasn't brought back a lot I think I think I was there in studio with you when you had broadcast that
um I I do remember that that very night though that we all went out to dinner on the 18th of September one week afterwards and we ran into uh our friend David who used to be part of our crew at that point
and I remember talking with him and I believe at the time he was working or had worked in the World Trade Center fairly recently and he told us that his friends
he was he was up to I think 25 people that he knew that it that he had lost at that point was
kind of uh crazy to hear about it but uh I was on Long Island when this happened
I remember uh literally I was putting my pants on to go to work
I actually I woke up at my girlfriend's place out on Oakdale I was putting my pants on to go to work
I had the television on and I thought to myself what the hell has just happened you know the plane had
crashed into the the World Trade Center I thought this has got to be some kind of uh small plane it's
got to be a small accident you know a like uh like a Cessna or something like that some kind of
you know five or six person plane not a uh 747 or any kind of massive plane there's just no way that could
ever happen and then watching this and seeing the debris fall out of the World Trade Center and
seeing the you know the people stranded up there and how big this hole was in the side of the
building you realize like what the hell is happening here something is is going on and then when the
other plane hit that was when it all came together that was when you know you started to put two and
together and realize that America was under attack um it was terrifying and I had uh like I said I was
on my way to work that morning I mean I stayed home for a while we watched what was happening I was in
touch with people at work I was I was working at a software company at the time out on Long Island
uh and was also a college student and I had I remember passing by uh Main Street in Sayville
at the time and feeling like I needed to do something here it felt you it felt very much like
you know we were a nation under attack at that moment you know the Pentagon was hit the World Trade
Center was hit you know everything had happened at this particular time and I stopped off at the
Masonic Lodge on Main Street in Sayville where I was a member of of this lodge I had recently become
a member and I had the keys to it because I um I used to mow the lawn at the lodge I was one of the
youngest people there everyone else was kind of aging and I went inside and I took out the American
flag and I I hung it out so that it was out there waving on Main Street some kind of you know sounds a
little bit jingoistic and maybe overly patriotic at this moment but that at that time it seemed to feel
really right to do that and then I went to work and what you said about the people in in the broadcast
from the 18th about the people being on the bus and reading the newspapers that that really resonated
with me Emmanuel because within the software company where there were this kind of cabal of
hardcore programmers that had a deadline and wouldn't be distracted by anything and so they they just
decided that they were going to just keep going uh you know we had the television now I was part of the
IT department there and we were watching everything and the whole place was is basically in tears and
crying and worried anxious and yet you know in the upper left area of this office where the programmers
sat there were just people there still trying to be hardcore and tough as if you know this is New
York and we just get on with it but uh how silly it is for them to have done that and I hope that they look
back at that particular moment and think how absolutely ridiculous it was to not pay attention to what was
going on in the world at that really historical moment to not be present with your friends and your family
um you know the code could always wait so that that bit and hearing that kind of resonated with me because I
I will never forget just the absolute idiocy of continuing to feel like you needed to work at that time
it was not a time to work it was a time to be together
if I can just um step in for a second Alex I think everybody processes in a different way
for some people I think that might have been therapeutic I'm not saying they were being therapeutic maybe
they didn't care at all I don't know I just don't think that we can apply our own values
for instance I'm not going to say anything about you planting an American flag or describing that
as America under attack I view it in a completely different way we all process it very differently
and I think that's that's what New York was getting during that period I'll buy that I'll buy that
sure we can give them the benefit of the doubt in hindsight yeah I we went actually to an Afghan place
it used to be on St. Mark's and I just remember the people the the people who are going there
going to the staff and saying are you okay you know are you being hassled are you being threatened
that was a concern of New Yorkers for their fellow New Yorkers wherever they happen to be from
we were all caught up in this in this nightmare yeah I remember that Afghan place I do it was it was
excellent well it's it's amazing Kyber Pass it's out of business so we can say what it was Kyber Pass
it's a great place anyone anyone else have uh recollections Rob yeah um at that point I was
living on Long Island and I had the day off I was very fortunate to not be at work when this all
happened but um I had the day off so I had stayed out late the night before uh probably went out to
see a movie or something and my plan for the day was to just whenever I wake up uh as I spent a lot of
my days off I would go into the city I would uh you know visit uh folks do some shopping whatever
putter around um a non-specific day uh just in Manhattan um but uh I the first thing that happened
to me that day was my phone rang which was next to my bed and it was my best friend shouting at me
to turn on the television and I like groggily asked what channel and she said just turn it on
and obviously it became apparent that what was going on was on all the channels um and my job at the
time was I was manager of an arcade in the Sunrise Mall in Massapequa and so the first uh thing I had to do
while waiting for you know after I got a handle on what was going on we talked a little bit she was
coming over driving over to pick me up um while waiting for her I checked with my colleagues uh the
company I worked for had locations and employees in New York City and elsewhere and people traveling
people driving through New York so I checked on folks made sure that we didn't have anyone that we
hadn't heard from um everything was obviously shut down for the day and so once uh once I knew that
things were not uh not worse in those respects I just took the day and my friend and I were you know
had the I guess luxury comparatively speaking of just sitting at her place and watching everything go
down um her internet connection which at the time was through AOL um sometimes worked sometimes cut
her off the phone lines were undependable um but uh we were able to get on enough to sort of get the
sense of okay um people we know are accounted for um and and just proceed through the day and it's funny
you mentioned the American flag thing because Alex because I remember one thing that uh one of the
newspapers had done I think it was I think it was Newsday had uh I think the next day just included a
big paper American flag with every issue and when I eventually returned to work the mall opened back up
and everything um the first thing that happened was my friend who ran the newsstand in the mall was
handing these flags out to all the other uh store operators and we each had them just hung up um in
some prominent place because whether or not you felt uh all that jingoistic about it it was something
that we had to do we had to just acknowledge in some way what had happened um and that that uh
that that just that just continued there was a numbness there was the following days and weeks
the realization that what was in the air even out on Long Island this plume coming from the site and
the knowledge of what it is we were all breathing and then uh to say nothing of the the social um
repercussions that continued watching colleagues in the mall have to be escorted to their cars by security
because um they looked Middle Eastern in origin whether or not they were the increased everyone
was on on edge on tenterhooks and people were ready to blow up at each other there were there were a
couple of fights in the arcade which was not a common occurrence I think before that and yeah there
there are there are things that uh I I still consider a lot when uh you know especially around this time of
year but uh yeah I think uh I think it's worth remembering I I actually was listening to Off the Hook
when you made that broadcast on the 18th whether or not it was in the arcade because I used to put it
on the speakers and in the store um when it was on uh so whether it was there whether it was at home
I don't remember but I remember listening to it and um hearing your voice again Emmanuel was um comforting
and uh something from before this happened that uh you know I could be assured was still going on
you know belated thanks thank thank you for that anyone else Kyle go ahead oh yeah um I've told this a
bunch of times in a bunch of different ways and I I think itself the the act of recollection it's
it's it's tiresome in some ways but it's also important to keep I guess sharing and retelling
it in a different way but um I I have a lot of different ways of thinking about it and I'm not
trying to say anything like you pointed out it's up for everybody's uh interpretation I don't know even
if how I came to understand all of it is the right way like it's just how I ended up
reck uh reckoning with it personally but um it occurred at a time in my life when I was there
was like excitement and optimism for the future I was um just starting in college and uh I was
sitting basically I woke up and I'd already like kind of uh met people and was socializing and feel
like on that kind of high of like being new and having fun and and that that revelry of of what
is you know being on your own for the first time and so there's no bitterness or any kind of
negative to it and I had a lot of work ahead of me presumably but um so and of course my and my
course load reflected my interest which was media and um and audio video all the sorts of production
stuff that uh that I was kind of you know intrigued by or thought maybe I could play around with and
make something of and at the time a lot of that stuff was changing with digital formats and stuff so
it's kind of cool to um think about what my future might be in that and so the class I was in was a mass
media class for for that track and um I was at uh in a in a big city in Chicago at a religious school
and um I don't know I think it uh I didn't know what it was in the class because basically I woke
woke up and like showed up at this early class and they just said you know um turned on the tv and like
uh we sat there and watched it I didn't I just remember being in there and not knowing what it
was like you know how you go to a class and you don't know what the curriculum calls for that day
is this movie day or like we would watch um some of the like jackson cats and media foundation stuff
and so like you got it eventually we did I think and that was where um like critical theory and a lot
of that stuff started um making me think about like uh sociology and and um the political economy
and all of that in media and uh so like are we watching some instructional or critical film of the
news but it was just us watching the news and then that was it I just remember not knowing what
it was and the confusion of it I think confusion might be something a synonym for a lot of people
and I guess uh how to keep it short and uh come out of that I just remember like a an assistant or
TA like handing out sheets that were describing different sources of media to look to and that
was what the professor was encouraging us to do I remember that as a takeaway and I think that
um point Alex made about hearing your voice I was listening to the show at the time so I was
a listener I think and going through I think all the way through um 2004 to the invasion even I was
listening uh off the wall uh started as well and I think your interpretation of it helping people grapple
that was one of those sources of media if that makes sense because like Pacifica or you know community
radio in general was uh one of those sorts of non how shall we say mainstream forms of media and
that's I guess where I would say like today like what it is and how we look at it I don't know I don't
really like a lot of the ways it is looked at because to me it completely derailed a lot of that revelry
or optimism for what I had to look forward to personally and in the larger sense for America
and for the world uh and I feel like it took it completely um it basically was the only thing
people spoke through from then on and then it was morphed into conflict and it became um
um sort of the the the the seed of what we might say is polarized politics now and stuff and so like
I look at it now and I'm I'm kind of like I kind of hate it for that for me I know that may be like
kind of selfish a little bit but and then I also look at like well what did I do in light of it and it
honestly made it incredibly impossible to look at uh school as like fun made it impossible to think
I was already kind of tangled up and making probably uh just you know all the right mistakes
for a college student so I had a lot going against me but I had a lot um of support as well but I it
was incredibly hard to think throughout that year and and I'm not a a exceptional scholar in the first
place so uh maintaining like just my ultimate path was not there at that institution I moved around a
little bit I found my own way through it all which is I think um a positive that I might have made of
it or that came out of it but it itself um like I said peppered every bit of how I looked at what I
would do in and it was sobering like I had to really grow up quickly from that initial kind of
um uh naivete going into um higher education so it was a real rude awakening for me and just is
instructive with so many of the choices good or bad that I've made and the way I've thought about
the world and even my kind of uh uh skepticism about stuff today or just like my tolerance for
stuff that then I would have protested now I'm just like well it's more of like you know I've
fought this over and over again like I'm I'm a different person now at the through the through
the other side of it if any of that makes sense but I I don't know it's it's hard to put into words
well you did it beautifully thank you Gila so I think it's apt that I'm sharing my story
last because mine is not a New York story um mine is not even a Chicago story um I was living on the
west coast at the time I was a senior in college and I was also living in a large city and going to
a religiously oriented college I was a senior and my phone rang at 6 15 6 30 in the morning
and I answered the phone I should mention I'm a very sound sleeper that is actually relevant to
the story my phone rang and I said was who's calling me and it was my mother and she said
are you watching tv and I said no I was asleep and she said you need to turn on the tv and I said
I was sleeping why do I need to turn on the tv and she said there's been an attack
and god forgive me I was wondering why she was telling me about something that had happened
in another country I had no idea it just I could not fathom that this might be happening here
and I turned on the tv I went down to a lounge in my dorm where I was standing around in their pajamas
um classes were canceled at my teeny tiny university and we actually had an assembly so everybody could be
together and then on the 12th classes were canceled again and we had listening circles and talking circles
and there was something weird about being in California at the time because everything felt
so far removed because I was on the other side of the country and because at the time I was
adamantly anti-New York City never wanted to live here never wanted to spend much time here
didn't know where anything was I had no concept of where anything was and I knew that I had
some friends who were going to school here and I was panic contacting all my friends who were up at
Columbia are you okay are you they said we're nowhere near this I said okay but I was I had no
idea one thing though I distinctly remember from the listening circles on the 12th was saying
that the thing that upset me the most beyond the loss of life and beyond the attack itself was this idea
that we didn't know where it was coming from at least initially that there was no place to focus
the energy and anger and the fear it was just out in the ether and because everybody for the most part I
think we can say was feeling fear and confusion and agita and there was no place to put it so it just felt
like everybody was very silent and I
my friends and I were supposed to go see a movie we had plans to go see a movie that night
we were supposed to go see wet hot American summer actually which we heard about this movie it was
only playing in small theaters we were ready it was great and all the movie theaters were closed
um I remember a friend of mine saying she was terrified because they're going to get us next
and I said excuse me I understand you're scared it's a very frightening thing that happened
I said but people in the city where we are don't know where this school is
I don't think international terrorists are coming to find us
um but that Sunday I had to fly I was going to Texas I was at the airport
um I was at the airport for about three hours getting through security and that day it didn't feel like
the security theater that it is now
and I didn't mind having this experience I didn't mind that we were literally standing in line for three
hours to go get on an airplane because we were all trying to figure out what things were going to look
like afterward we were allowed to keep our shoes on at that point but and then this idea
that when anything happens now we have to clarify where it came from it's a fascinating aftermath
I think um last week I was in my office and my boss said that she got a google alert about a flight
that had been diverted diverted to JFK because a passenger had a health issue that turned out to be
diarrhea and she said why does the world need to know that and I said it's unfortunate and I feel
for the person I feel terrible but the fact that it needed to be clarified that there was a health
issue but it wasn't COVID this entire flight was not about to come down with COVID no one was dead on
the plane no one had punched a flight attendant it wasn't terrorism the plane wasn't broken this
was just old-fashioned diarrhea and the fact that whatever happens the first thing that has to be
said is we don't think it's terrorism a blackout right it could have whatever it is that now that
we're in this place 23 years still 23 years later where everything has to be we don't think it was
terrorism we're confident it's not terrorism I think there was some sort of fundamental shift
that day where you were looking over our national shoulder in a way that we weren't before and we
really have been since and I think that's the thing that sticks with me the most
wow thank you for that thank you all for your recollections you know we're all New Yorkers in
one way or another and I think everybody listening is a New Yorker in one sense or another we all have
stories and I encourage people to reach out to each other listen to the stories there is nobody who is
not touched by this of course if you weren't born yet obviously but the people who were around then
and and sentient um they all have different perspectives different ways of looking at this
traumatic and historic event that took place 23 years I can't believe it's 23 years ago
tonight we've done um two other shows on September 11th we were supposed to do one on September 11th
2001 uh but the station was off the air uh so this is the third time we've done that and I think um
I think it's the most thoroughly we've um we've thought back on it I'd like to um give listeners the
opportunity as well on overtime which follows this program on youtube um you can call up and uh tell us
your recollections uh starting at eight o'clock I'm gonna do something unusual I'm gonna give out the
phone number on this show which we don't usually do uh and the phone right now is off the hook um
in case there's any wise acres out there that want to uh call now uh the phone number write it down
and and call us after eight o'clock p.m eastern time it's 802-321-4225 that's 802-321-HACK
is what that spells um and um yeah if you have a story to tell please keep it keep it uh short
and um you know not too short but uh keep in mind there's there's probably a lot of people that want
to um uh call in as well um yes Alex go ahead
Alex once again you're muted
really all right you know what
what talk to us can can you can you hear me now yeah your mouth was moving and nothing was coming
out so I assumed you're muted that's probably faded a bit now though is it are the levels worse now
for god's sake Alex tell us what you want to say yeah uh one of the things that that always stuck out
to me was the um I think about this every year too was that uh the new yorker halloween edition of
the new yorker and you know how they have different covers every week that were always fascinating that
the halloween edition of the new yorker in 2001 and I think I think about it and I choke up every time
because you remember that um you know it was a totally different world back then when september 11th
happened and our our policemen and our firemen were our heroes back then I mean these are the
people that were going down into the rubble and removing bodies and looking for survivors and the
police dogs and you remember seeing the images of these firemen coming back entirely covered in soot
you know the only the only portion of them not covered in soot was under their eyes from the tears
and you know it was it was an incredibly moving thing and this cover the new yorker has a scene
of kids either in brooklyn or it looks like the west village they're in front of some brownstones or
something like this obviously a new york scene and every single kid is dressed up as a policeman
or fireman in that halloween cover and it's uh it's really moving to look at it and think back at
that time I remember the um uh the season premiere of saturday night live back then where the firemen
were on stage and uh in fact giuliani was even there that was that was back when people uh thought
giuliani was capable of doing some good and I even praised him on the air of this station which is
something that believe me is a is is a one offer uh but um he he at the time seemed to be a comforting
figure you know america's mayor I think he was called but I remember he was he was there at the
opening of snl and uh one of the cast members uh asked him so can we be funny now and he said sure
try try something new which you know it's it's the laugh we needed back then um all right um
enough recollection I guess uh you know we have to look forward um one thing I just want to conclude
with um I remember I don't know if it was on this station or another station or another show or just a
private conversation but I remember it being brought up that this horrible event was also a tremendous
opportunity for the world to come together and unite against against evil against injustice
to make sure something like this never happened again and boy did we blow that
boy did we make it as bad as we possibly could make it
tsa patriot act all kinds of uh military actions countless lives lost for for for no good reason
but um that's how things go sometimes all right um we have only a few minutes left but we should we
should talk about some other things that are happening we spent a lot of last week talking about um
elon musk and what has become of twitter and his his war with brazil which I think is still ongoing
I haven't really heard much about it haven't really been paying much attention to anything he says
with one exception um last night you might recall there was there was another event where
every channel was broadcasting something it was it was an ass whooping
from uh from pennsylvania um and um apparently um elon musk is once again getting called out and this is
really disgusting creepy a comment he made to taylor swift after she publicly endorsed kamala harris for
president he took to twitter and said fine taylor you win i will give you a child and guard your
cats with my life i mean how inappropriate how creepy can you possibly get and and this guy is is
running a major platform sending people to space it's it's really it disturbs me it disturbs me so much
you know what i'm gonna do i'm gonna report this account right now if i can figure out how to do it on
twitter um and um report elon musk to twitter as being inappropriate
you all can tell me not to oh i say go for it let's see what happens there yeah so
yeah that's just a bizarre story i did not know that emmanuel i don't think there has been
any developments on the brazilian front either okay i'm reporting the post uh that's what type
of issue am i reporting hate abuse and harassment uh violent speech child safety privacy spam
suicide or self-harm sensitive or disturbing media impersonation or violent and hateful entities and i
think i can only choose one of those i'm going to go for abuse and harassment does everybody agree
that's the right one i do think that's fair um emmanuel are you still do you still have a twitter
account oh yeah yeah absolutely do you still use it how else do i harass my my my various elected
officials i will be curious to see what happens after you submit this report well uh let's see um okay
so under abuse and harassment now i have um uh some choices of the best match unwanted nsfw and
graphic content nsfw not safe for work uh targeted harassment um i think that's kind of the the lead
right now insults unwanted sexual content and graphic objectification i'll i'll go for that one
uh violent event denial or inciting harassment i think the unwanted sexual content is definitely
um the one to choose there and i'm submitting thanks for making x helping make x better for everyone
i have reported elon musk's post not elon musk the account i'll do that next but the post i feel good
i feel good about this everybody should do the same thing because that means tracking down his his
horrible post in the first place but sometimes sometimes you have to get a little bit dirty to uh
to to get justice um one other thing and i think we'll talk about this on on overtime because we're
kind of out of time now but there was a fascinating story last week uh about um a u.s media company that
turns out is um accused alleged to have been funded by russia linked to some right-wing social media stars
uh and it's the the company is known as tenant media you guys hear about this story it's really uh
kind of kind of disturbing fascinating
yeah yes emphatically yes um this is this is a a kind of uh thing i think we all are kind of
we should be sensitive to be aware of um when you're endorsing things and um doing things uh for cash
uh you should investigate and find out about the ownership especially if there are fictitious uh
uh benefactors or um uh people that are sponsoring it but they the people who were accused of this
alleged thing are feigning ignorance i just found their names i was searching for the names in the
whole story uh benny johnson tim pool and dave rubin tim pool by the way has been on this show
many years ago i'm sorry i fell for what he was saying seemed like he was fair-minded at the time
maybe he was maybe he was he hadn't completely bought into right-wing propaganda um but the signs
were there the signs were there just like the signs with elon musk were there um before he went
uh totally wacko uh but in this particular case as carl said yeah they're claiming they're the victims
that they didn't know they were getting what is it uh how much money per per video well there
there are different arrangements one um hundred thousand dollars a post there was others that
were uh sort of salaried situation where there was like four hundred thousand a month or something
there was different criteria they didn't ask where the money was coming from in some cases they
asked a little bit uh others there were there weren't any questions asked and they were to
basically keep doing what they're doing and that's the the way this kind of thing is done you have
people that are already sort of useful and you just want to make them more useful to you and it is
that in the interest of state actors and large entities uh on on the global stage that uh will
will want to amplify that because it benefits um their strategic interests so i and i think that
a lot of what we have noticed in hacking over the years is that um there are um shells of shells of
shells in these in in the the darker parts of the web and you need to understand that and i think
that's something we talk about when we're educating people that are new they need to know um that they
could be quickly become affiliated with something that is uh connected to these types of things in ways
they they might not understand we're gonna have to continue this conversation on overtime as we are
uh out of time now please support wbai give to wbai.org give the number to wbai.org write to us
oth at 2600.com tune into off the hook next wednesday 7 p.m and overtime coming up at eight o'clock
on youtube follow the link um on 2600.com the main page and uh we will see you there give us a call and
uh tell us your stories from from uh 9-11 if you have any we will um we'll see you next time
stay free