This party has privacy director and does not accept unidentified calls.
To allow this person to see the name and number of the phone you are calling from, please press 1.
Or to identify yourself by recording your name, press 2.
The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
I cut myself off shaving, now I can't make a call.
We couldn't get much worse, but if we could, we would.
One day we bombed our best, it's great for worse.
I hope that's understood.
One day we bombed!
Thank you.
Thank you, Mike Kyle.
Yes.
Out there in Skypeland, we have Rob T. Firefly.
Good evening.
We have Gila.
Good evening.
And we have Alex.
I'm here.
Good evening.
Um, okay.
Well, you know, we weren't on last week.
We had some technical issues.
We could talk about that, but we're not going to because we have so much else to talk about.
And it's not important.
Uh, the important thing is we're here this week and you, our listeners, hopefully are here as well.
And we have a lot to talk about, but, um, I'm going to ask, um, if you could indulge me for
a moment, I just want to read an excerpt of something that it means a lot to me.
It's, it's something that, um, has inspired me over the decades.
In fact, it's, it's one of the reasons why I have my name, uh, the name I use.
Uh, it's the book 1984 by George Orwell.
I'd like to read, if I may, the last two paragraphs of that incredible book written
in 1948, published in 1949.
And, um, particularly apropos, I think the voice from the telescreen was still pouring
forth its tale of prisoners and booty and slaughter, but the shouting outside, it died
down a little.
The waiters were turning back to their work.
One of them approached with the gin bottle.
Winston, sitting in a blissful dream, paid no attention as his glass was filled up.
He was not running or cheering any longer.
He was back in the ministry of love with everything forgiven, his soul white as snow.
He was in the public dock, confessing everything, implicating everybody.
He was walking down the white tiled corridor with the feeling of walking in sunlight and an
armed guard at his back.
The long-hoped-for bullet was entering his brain.
He gazed up at the enormous face.
Forty years it had taken him to learn what kind of smile was hidden beneath the dark mustache.
Oh, cruel, needless misunderstanding.
Oh, stubborn, self-willed exile from the loving breast.
Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose.
But it was all right.
Everything was all right.
The struggle was finished.
He had won the victory over himself.
He loved Big Brother.
I'm not sure if you all remember the story a couple of years ago.
Actually, I think it was 2021.
This guy named Roman Pratasevich was on a plane.
A plane that was forced down in Belarus.
He was a dissident blogger from Belarus.
And the plane was forced down so that he could be dragged off of it and arrested.
He begged the people on the plane, don't do this.
Don't land the plane.
They will kill me.
I'm a refugee.
And that plane, escorted by a Belarusian MiG-29 fighter jet, was forced down.
It landed.
And Pratasevich was promptly arrested.
You guys remember that?
I remember that story.
But you might not know.
And this happened just over a year ago, maybe closer to two years ago.
So, he reemerged.
He reemerged with a different attitude.
He said this on camera shortly after being released.
I'm insanely thankful to the country and personally to the president.
In a long interview on state television, he apologized to the riot police,
who defended the country during the mass protests of 2020,
which had been the largest in Belarus since the fall of the Soviet Union.
He claimed he had been ordered to stir up the protests to create a pretext for international sanctions against Belarus.
He denounced his girlfriend, Sofia Sapega, who was arrested alongside him
and had been sentenced to six years in prison.
Why should I leave, he said on state television.
It's very good here.
There are a lot of young people.
Everyone is walking.
The birds are singing.
The goal of President Lukashenko was simple and clear, said Frenak Villakorka,
chief of staff to the exiled Belarusian protest leader,
where Svetlana Sik has, you know what, I'm not even going to try, I'm sorry,
but exiled Belarusian protest leader.
The goal was simple and clear, to break the personality of Roman,
make him the instrument, the tool of Lukashenko's policy.
And he achieved it.
Lukashenko was elected yet again, a week ago someday,
with this former dissident standing by his side, helping him win again.
Yeah.
He loved Big Brother now, too.
It was fiction in 1949.
It's reality today.
And it's not a reality that is limited to places like Belarus,
because what we've seen here in this country over the past couple of weeks,
only a couple of weeks, particularly over the last few days,
we have seen some unbelievably Orwellian developments.
More than 8,000 webpages across more than a dozen U.S. government websites
have been taken down since Friday afternoon,
according to the New York Times.
As federal agencies rush to heed President Trump's orders,
targeting what words are approved and what words are not.
More than 3,000 pages from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention,
including 1,000 research articles filed under preventing chronic disease,
STD treatment guidelines,
information about Alzheimer's warning signs,
overdose prevention training, vaccine guidelines for pregnant people.
More than 3,000 pages from the Census Bureau,
the vast majority of which are articles filed under research and methodology.
Other missing pages include data stewardship policies,
documentation for several data sets and surveys.
More than 1,000 pages from the Office of Justice Programs,
including a feature on teenage dating violence,
and a blog post about grants that have gone toward combating hate crimes.
More than 200 pages from Head Start,
a program for low-income children,
including advice on helping families establish routines and videos
about preventing postpartum depression.
More than 180 pages from the Department of Justice,
including all state-level hate crime data,
and seven pages discussing anti-LGBTQ hate crimes.
Close to 150 pages from the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration,
including more than 50 press announcements
about the use of the National Disaster Distress Helpline
in the aftermath of shootings or natural disasters.
More than 100 pages from the Food and Drug Administration,
including more than 60 regulatory guidelines
on topics such as increasing diversity in clinical trials,
and the potential for addiction and abuse in drug trials.
I could continue for another half hour listing all of this.
But what we're seeing is basically revisionism,
changing the language, changing history,
changing the words we use,
changing the values that we hold.
And it's only the beginning.
Now, I know a lot of people won't be happy that we're talking about this.
They would prefer that we talk about exploits and security holes and things like that.
But what bigger exploit or security hole could you possibly imagine
than what we have seen over the past few days,
where an unelected billionaire is basically perusing through treasury.gov,
having access to every check written by the government,
including your Social Security information.
Unelected.
And even if you were elected,
it still would constitute an incredible security breach.
This is one of the biggest security breaches in all of history.
So, yes, we are going to discuss it.
And we're going to discuss it in a way
that is not kowtowing to those who imagine themselves in charge.
Because this is WBAI,
where we believe in free speech,
we believe in debate,
we believe in analysis,
and we will continue to cover
all that is forbidden in the mainstream.
That includes migrant rights,
reproductive rights,
trans rights,
diversity,
black history month,
free speech of all sorts,
foreign aid,
corporate regulation,
climate change,
clean energy,
mass transit,
science,
health,
vaccines,
education,
history,
immigration,
democracy,
transparency,
dissent.
We have a lot to talk about.
Welcome, everybody.
Hi there.
Alex,
I understand you made the newswire today.
I did,
actually,
yeah.
And I guess this is a way to tie in tech to this,
the Orwellian nature of the way you had set up this preamble.
So,
well,
I'll say,
I'll preface this.
Over the weekend,
I had an idea pop into my head.
I had recognized that within the .gov top level domain that's used for governments in the United States,
primarily just the United States,
state and local as well as federal governments,
there were some interesting things that were popping up.
And I thought to myself,
well,
look,
I do all of this DNS monitoring and coding with respect to zone files and things.
And quite literally,
this idea just popped into my head on Saturday night about how I could monitor the .gov top level domain for additional registrations that were located within it,
as well as things that were removed from the .gov top level domain.
And so Sunday morning,
I got to work and I coded what had popped into my head.
And on Saturday,
I wrote the code,
wrote a proof of concept,
started working.
And then I expanded it so I can use this on all top level domains now.
But I wrote it primarily to track and monitor .gov.
And so every day I've been watching the new things that are popping up in .gov,
mostly state and local websites and .gov domains and things.
But then today,
two weird domains popped up that seemed particularly,
well,
at least one of them seemed particularly off brand for the current administration.
And believe it or not,
it was DEI.gov.
That was registered last night.
So I passed that particular domain as well as another one that was rather interesting,
waste.gov over to Raphael Satter over at Reuters,
who then had a source confirm that it was in fact the White House that registered these particular domains.
And he wrote a story about it.
So that ended up in Reuters today that DEI.gov and waste.gov were registered.
And I think it's particularly interesting that both of these terms are found within Trump's January 20th executive order
with respect to DEI and stamping out waste in the federal government.
So the use for these particular .gov domains remains to be seen.
None of them resolve at the moment.
If you look up the WHOIS data,
it indicates that the registrar and organization associated with these domains is actually CISA,
the Cybersecurity Infrastructure Security Agency.
But it's obviously very clear that given the anti-DEI policies of the Trump administration,
DEI.gov will certainly not be used to promote DEI initiatives.
Rather,
as I speculated in the Reuters article,
it's much more likely that DEI.gov is going to be used to rail against DEI policies and possibly to shame companies or agencies
that don't fall in line with the administration's philosophy with respect to the eradication of DEI policies.
So,
yeah,
ended up in the news today for a bit of coding.
That popped into my head Saturday,
and I wound up writing on Sunday.
So,
pretty cool to see that idea bear fruit so quickly.
Did you happen to look at the name servers for these newly registered domains?
Alex,
you're muted somehow.
Okay,
Alex,
while you figure out how to turn your microphone back on,
I'll tell people...
Are you back?
Yeah,
sorry.
Yeah,
there are no name servers associated with the domains.
They're just registered.
They don't actually have any...
I got to correct you there.
That's...
If you do a who is,
you'll see there are two name servers,
both of which are cloudflare.com.
One is called Earnest.
One is called Wally.
Oh,
that's new.
Yeah.
That's new.
That's brand new.
That must have just happened.
Okay.
And all of the work that,
quote-unquote work that Elon Musk and his minions
minions are up to right now,
that can be traced back to Cloudflare as well.
So that's something very interesting.
Yeah.
I mean,
this is interesting.
So there's still no IP address,
though,
associated with the domains.
I mean,
you can't ping them in any way,
so they're not resolvable.
But this does indicate to me
that the presence of these name server records,
it indicates to me that they are in the process of configuring these domains
to have some kind of content.
And I would say probably within the next day or so,
we're going to see content on DEI.gov and Waste.gov.
Now,
what's going to happen on Waste.gov?
Waste.gov,
well,
I speculated in the Reuters article today that perhaps that's going to be some
kind of running kill list for federal programs or things that the DOGE
employees,
and perhaps we should talk about that a little bit as well,
Emmanuel,
because you had some activity there.
But the programs and things that the DOGE employees or minions,
as you might want to call them,
had essentially slashed from the federal budget,
perhaps starting with USAID.
Interestingly,
DOGE.gov is also a domain,
also using Cloudflare as name servers.
I suspect these are all being run by the same people.
We do have a couple of IPs for DOGE.gov,
D-O-G-E dot G-O-V.
And there's not much on that webpage at the moment anyway.
I'm sure more things will be there.
I don't know what kinds of possible security holes they might have.
It's just really weird to see these kinds of things happening.
But 172.67.131.28 is one of the IPs.
The other one is 104.21.3.190.
Now,
there are a couple of IPv6 IPs as well,
but I believe they go to the same place.
So they're pretty much the same as those.
I would suspect that the IPs for DEI and Waste.gov may very well be the same.
We'll find out soon enough.
Kyle,
go ahead.
Is Cloudflare name service implying that they are aware that these particular sites will be under scrutiny
and more or less attacked or getting a lot of attention, so to speak?
Well,
I can't crawl into their heads and think like they do,
but it's quite possible.
Does that benefit for name service specifically or the site,
even though it doesn't have an IP?
Like,
there's nothing necessarily to direct the attention to.
Not,
yeah.
It offers,
I imagine what they believe is a level of obscurity,
perhaps being protected.
Yeah.
I've never really had to set it up myself,
but I'm sure not a lot of people are familiar,
but from what I understand,
that's a service that helps mitigate certain types of denial of service and other kinds of attacks that are pretty common.
And it's one of,
I think,
probably several in an industry of services that provide that for sites that,
you know,
may be controversial or be otherwise attacked.
Rob,
deal.
I haven't heard from you.
I'm just looking at doge.gov right now.
As you said,
not much comment so far.
There's a blank page that at the top says an official website of the United States government.
Then there is the banner department of government efficiency.
The people voted for major reform and a little image of a dollar sign.
That image is hosted on image delivery.net,
which is a cloudflare domain.
And looking at the source,
there is a hidden link,
a link rel,
which is pointing to x.com slash doge.
Yes, Alex, go ahead.
Yeah, to further Kyle's point with respect to cloudflare,
I deal with them constantly, all the time.
They are ostensibly used to mitigate against distributed denial of service attacks.
They're a content delivery network.
But essentially what a lot of threat actors do that are using domain names maliciously,
let's say for a credentials harvesting or phishing or impersonation,
what have it,
any kind of malicious type of activity,
they'll very often configure the domain to utilize cloudflare as a content distribution network.
And what it does is it obscures who the actual host is.
So it becomes very,
very difficult to figure out who's actually providing internet connectivity to this particular domain name
without having to go through cloudflare to get it.
Now,
there are some other tricks and things that you can do in order to get behind cloudflare
and figure out which service is providing connectivity.
But for the most part,
it really does obscure who the host is
and prevents takedown requests from being sent to the host
and also prevents the host from being subject to additional DDoS attacks.
Okay.
Well,
interesting.
Now,
we should also point out,
this is not just about registering new domains.
This is about private citizens being empowered to march into offices,
kick people out who are legitimately employed there,
and basically gain access to some of the most sensitive data imaginable,
data about all of us,
pretty much.
And no oversight,
no transparency,
just a lot of
threatening
and intimidation.
In fact,
some of the threatening
went so far as to say,
if you
identify
who is doing this,
you will be
prosecuted.
You will be in a
lot of trouble,
which of course led
to the people
behind us
being identified.
In fact,
at 2600,
we went right back
onto Twitter.
This is why you keep the Twitter account,
by the way.
This is why.
So that
you can speak
directly to them.
If you leave,
yeah,
you can still speak,
but you're speaking to the people
that agree with you.
This is how you reach
those people
who are committing the crimes,
who are
up to this skullduggery.
And
basically what we said was
there is nothing illegal
about naming
inexperienced people
currently accessing
sensitive government data
at the behest
of Elon Musk.
And they are
Akash Baba,
Edward Karstein,
Luke Farator,
Gautier Kohl-Killian,
Gavin Kligger,
and Ethan Chautran.
This
is a major
security breach.
Now,
we did this
with the full
realization
that
action could be
taken,
but
instead of action
being taken,
word spread
even more.
And these names
have
rightfully so
become
commonplace.
you know,
I don't think
any of us
are
encouraging
any kind
of
threats,
certainly not
violence or anything
like that,
just transparency,
just what the hell
is going on?
Who are these
people that
now have
access to
all of our
data?
This has got
nothing to do
with who you
support.
Although,
it's really
interesting to
see the
kinds of
responses that
we got
for daring
to post this
information.
I should point
out Blue Sky,
Mastodone,
kind of
disappointingly,
universal
thumbs up
and acceptance.
Kind of like
to debate a
little bit,
but everybody
there seems
to be on
the same
page.
Okay,
fine.
I guess
there's worse
things.
On Twitter
or X,
whatever you
want to
call it,
there was
widespread
approval,
but also
a good
bunch of
people that
took umbrage
at daring
to reveal
this information.
I want to
read a couple
of the
responses
without any
usernames
or identifying
information.
I think
this is a
great
opportunity
to reveal
government
shouldn't
be this
big.
It
shouldn't
have
that
much
data.
Okay,
fair point.
Government
is too
big.
Government
does have
a lot
of data.
data.
But is
this the
way to
handle it?
To send
in an
anonymous
army of
basically
college kids
working at
the behest
of Elon
Musk,
giving them
full access
to government
systems and
domains and
private
information and
not telling
you what
they're up
to?
Is that the
right way
to reduce
the data?
I think
that's the
right way to
spread the
data to
all kinds
of people
all around
the world.
And we're
going to find
out about
that.
Here's
another.
What
happened to
the hacker
community?
We used
to fight
against big
government.
Now you
all seem to
cheer for it.
Like these
assholes are
clearly corrupt,
but because the
orange man is
doing it,
then it's not
good.
Talk about not
seeing the
forest through
the trees.
Okay.
We didn't
mention Trump's
name once.
All right.
It's not about
him.
We're talking
about Elon
Musk, who
is a true
threat.
All right.
Somebody who
made a Nazi
salute two weeks
ago.
We're not
talking about
that anymore,
are we?
Because he's
moved on to
bigger and
better things.
We're talking
about a
security breach
unlike any
other.
A security
breach from
within.
At the
behest of
people who
were duly
elected.
It doesn't
make it
right.
And we
used to
fight against
big government.
Well, what
are we fighting
against right
now?
People seem
to forget
who's in
charge.
Here's
another.
I remember
back when
hackers were
all about
the free
flow of
information.
Not so
much anymore.
Not sure
when or why
that changed.
Okay, let
me tell you
something,
genius.
We never
were in
favor of
people's
private
information
flowing all
over the
damn place.
And that's
apparently what
we're looking
forward to
now.
Because Elon
Musk has
just been
given access
to all of
it.
And that's
supposed to
be okay?
We're supposed
to just bow
down and say
thank you,
Mr.
Billionaire.
You're going
to take care
of us.
We trust
you.
Were hackers
ever that
stupid?
I don't
think so.
So don't tell
me that
this is
something
new.
That we're
not holding
on to our
values of
the past.
If anything,
we've strengthened
those values.
And we're
standing up to
something bigger
than we've
ever stood up
to before.
Okay, here's
another one.
You oppose
exposing the
privileged and
corrupt and
encourage violence
against the
investigators,
which we did
not do.
That just
means you're
just a goon
carrying water
for those
with money,
privilege,
and power
and cosplaying
as if you're
a freedom
fighter.
Okay, the
absurdity of
this, it's
so, it's
delicious.
It really
is.
We are
carrying water
for those
with money,
privilege,
and power
while you
apparently are
defending all
these billionaires
that for some
reason you
think can't
do anything
wrong and
that have
your back
and care at
all about
you.
I mean,
really?
How do
you say
that with
a straight
face?
I don't
know if
you said
this with
a straight
face.
You typed
it, but
still, it's
nuts.
Okay, this
on the
subject of
USAID
being shut
down and
attacked.
What's crazy
to me is
that USAID
has long
been known
as a tool
of the CIA,
if not an
outright front.
There's some
truth to that.
There's some
truth to that.
But let me
finish the quote
first.
I learned
this from
leftist
slash
liberal
thinkers
at least
a decade
ago,
if not
more.
We are
truly in
the upside
down.
Well, not
so much
because we're
not kidding
ourselves.
Yes, there's
all kinds of
skullduggery
going on in
all kinds of
agencies, but
you have to
weigh the
good against
the bad.
And what's
happening right
now is the
bad.
And what
USAID did
in the past,
sure, there
was some
collaboration with
CIA operatives,
but there was
also a hell of a
lot of good.
just look
around, look
at all the
funds that
were given
to people
who needed
them, to
countries that
were struggling.
And yeah, it
could be done
better, but
this, this is
not the path to
that.
This is the
path to cutting
everything off
and letting
people suffer
and no
accountability.
accountability.
Watching 2600
crash out over
young hackers
following a
mission they
believe in to
cut government
waste was not
in my bingo
card, but I
guess here we
are.
All right, well,
I'll put the
bingo card down
for a second
and listen.
Young hackers
following a
mission they
believe in?
You know, I
wish I knew it
was that easy.
You know, because
I used to be a
young hacker.
I used to
believe in
missions.
I didn't know I
could just walk
into a
government office
and take it
over and just
get all the
data and
somehow make
it better.
Boy, you
know, would
have been a
different world
if I had
that kind of
option.
All right,
well, one
final comment
here.
We just don't
have the time.
The government
employees in
Doge acting
at the behest
of the elected
POTUS is
democracy, even
if he's directing
them to do
something dumb.
Bureaucrats
being insubordinate
to elected
officials,
is the
opposite of
democracy.
Not sure how
Dems and their
allies are losing
that point.
Well, you know,
there are aspects
to government
that are not
part of
somebody who
was just
elected.
There are
people who
have been
in particular
organizations
for years,
decades,
and they
are legitimate.
You can't
just say
they don't
count.
They don't
have allegiances
to one
party or
another,
and that's
important.
It's important
to have
people like
that running
things,
because otherwise
everything becomes
a battle.
Everything becomes
some sort of
struggle between
one side or
another,
and you have
the Orwellian
change of
language,
where all of a
sudden this word
is bad,
or this
website must
disappear.
And when you
have some
kind of a
constant,
something that
continues from
one administration
to the other,
well, that's what
keeps things from
going completely
crazy.
And now
things are going
completely crazy.
You wonder
why.
So, yeah,
you know,
Trump being
elected,
yeah, that was
democracy, and I
think everybody
admitted to that.
We weren't happy
with it, but we
admitted to it.
What's happening
right now,
that's a coup.
That is a coup
from within the
winning side.
It's basically a
power grab, a
way of taking
more, a way of
getting vengeance.
You know, I
never thought I
would feel sympathy
for the FBI,
really.
I have so much
I can say about
the FBI and
the bad things
they have done.
I can say the
same thing about
police.
I can say the
same thing about
so many agencies,
so many
representatives of
government or
enforcement.
Doesn't mean I
want them all
gone.
Doesn't mean I
want them to
just be wiped
off the face
of the earth
and let's
just see how
things go.
I think we
know how it's
going to go.
And what we're
basically doing
now is having
toddlers running
the asylum
and it's
not going to
turn out
well unless
we start
doing something.
Alex.
Yeah, I
want to respond
to this comment
about, well,
what's happening,
this is democracy,
this is just
what we voted
for, and now
we have to
deal with it.
I want to push
back against that
as well.
I don't think
that's true at
all, I
think that
democracy
involves
legislation,
democracy
requires due
process,
democracy is
about our
traditional
notions of
having an
opportunity to
be heard
before our
property rights
or entitlements
are entirely
canceled,
billy-nilly.
Democracy, as
I mentioned,
is about
people coming
together to
pass laws that
promote the
good of this
country and the
good of the
people and
one of those
laws that's
been on the
books for
quite some
time is
something called
the Hatch
Act.
And the
Hatch Act,
as somebody
who worked
for the
federal
government
in both
intelligence
and defense
capacities,
the Hatch
Act was
extraordinarily
important and
especially within
CIA was
something that
was very,
very much
respected.
And the
Hatch Act
is a law
that Congress
passed that
basically says
the federal
workforce has
to be
free from
partisan
political
influence or
coercion.
That's what
the Hatch Act
says.
It ensures
that government
programs are
administered in
some form of
nonpartisan
fashion.
It protects
federal employees
from political
coercion and
prevents you
from political
proselytizing while
within the
workforce as
well.
So this
whole notion
that, well,
that's just
politics.
That's what
we voted
for.
That's just
democracy, I
think, is
complete nonsense.
we have
laws to
prevent that
sort of
quote-unquote
democracy from
infecting the
federal government.
I think it's
really a sad
state of affairs
when we just
are willing to
accept the
slash-and-burn
mentality when
it comes to
federal programs
and agencies
and people's
livelihoods that
have been in
place for
decades, have
done extraordinarily
well, and are
some of, I
think, the
more notable
achievements in
this country's
history with
respect to
human rights
and foreign
aid and the
soft power that
the United States
has wielded over
some time.
Now, I think
there is a place
for politics in
the federal
workforce as
well, and
there are many,
many people that
are political
appointees of the
president, and
some of these I
think are crazy
like, you
know, political
appointees becoming
general counsels of
intelligence agencies
and things like
that, but those
people are the
political operatives
that the president
picks and chooses
and they have to be
confirmed by the
Senate.
So there's a place
for politics and
there's a place
where it should not
be, and I think
we have to remember
and I think
respect the fact
that the federal
workforce is supposed
to be free from
this type of
partisan nonsense.
I'd like to go
into some of the
technical details
a little bit more
from a newsletter
called Letters from
an American by
Heather Cox
Richardson, I
believe is the
author's name here,
who says that
shortly after one
in the morning
yesterday,
Vittoria Elliott,
Dhruv Maratra,
Leah Fager, and
Tim Marchman of
Wired reported
that according to
three of their
sources, a 25-year-old
engineer named
Marco Elez, who
previously worked
for two Elon Musk
companies, SpaceX
and X or Twitter,
now has direct
access to Treasury
Department systems
responsible for
nearly all payments
made by the U.S.
government.
According to the
reporters, Elez
apparently has the
privileges to write
code on the
programs at the
Bureau of Fiscal
Service that control
more than 20% of the
U.S.
economy, including
government payments
of veterans'
benefits, social
security benefits,
and veterans'
pay.
How everybody in
this country is
not extremely
concerned over this
is beyond me.
The admin
privileges he has
typically permit a
user to log into
servers through
Secure Shell
access, navigate the
entire file system,
change user
permissions, and
delete or modify
critical files.
That could allow
someone to bypass
the security measures
of and potentially
cause irreversible
changes to the
very systems they
have access to.
If you would have
asked me a week
ago if an outsider
could have been
given access to a
government server,
one federal IT
worker told the
Wired reporters,
I'd have told you
that this kind of
thing would never in
a million years
happen.
But now, who the
F knows, the
reporters note
that control of
the Bureau of
Fiscal Service
Computers could
enable someone to
cut off monies to
specific agencies or
even individuals.
Will Doge cut
funding to programs
approved by Congress
that Donald Trump
decides he doesn't
like, asks
Senator Chuck
Schumer.
What about cancer
research, food
banks, school
lunches, veterans
aides, literacy
programs, small
business loans?
Josh Marshall of
Talking Points
Memo reported
that his sources
said that
Elez and
possibly others
got full admin
access to the
Treasury computers
on Friday, the
31st of January,
and that he or
they have already
made extensive
changes to the
code base for the
payment system.
They are leaning
on existing staff
in the agency for
help, which those
workers have
provided reluctantly
in hopes of keeping
the entire system
from crashing.
Marshall reports
those staffers
are freaking
out.
The system is
due to undergo
a migration to
another system
this weekend.
How the changes
will interact with
that long-planned
migration is unclear.
The changes,
Marshall's sources
tell him, all seem
to relate to
creating new paths
to block payments
and possibly leave
less visibility
into what has been
blocked.
Less visibility.
Those of you
saying that this
is democracy,
let's swirl that
one around a little
bit.
Now, both Wired
and the New York
Times reported
yesterday that
Elon Musk's team
intends to cut
government workers
and to use
artificial intelligence
or AI to make
budget cuts and
to find waste and
abuse in the
federal government.
Today, Jason
Kobler, Joseph Cox
and Emmanuel
Mayberg of
404 Media reported
that they had
obtained the audio
of a meeting held
Monday by Thomas
Shedd for government
technology workers.
Shedd is a former
Musk employee at
Tesla, who is now
leading the General
Services Administration's
Technology Transformation
Services, known as
TTS, the team that is
recoding the government
programs.
At the meeting, Shedd
told government workers
that things are going to
get intense as his team
creates AI coding agents
to write software that
would, for example,
change the way logging
into the government
systems works.
Currently, that software
cannot access any
information about
individuals.
As the reporters
note, login.gov
currently assures
users that it does
not affect or have
any information related
to the specific agency
you are trying to
access.
But Shedd said they
were working through
how to change that
login to further
identify individuals
and detect and
prevent fraud.
When a government
employee pointed out
that the Privacy Act
of 1974 makes it
illegal for agencies
to share personal
information without
consent, Shedd
appeared unfazed by
the idea that they
were trying something
illegal.
He said the idea
would be that folks
would give consent
to help with the
login flow, but again,
that's an example of
something that we have
a vision that needs
to be worked on and
needs clarified.
And if we hit a
roadblock, then we hit
a roadblock, but we
still should push
forward and see what
we can do.
Laws be damned.
And that's where we
are.
Thoughts?
Rob?
Yeah.
There is no element
of democracy in a
private citizen, in
this case, Apartheid
Clyde, marching in,
creating an organization
that is not a
department of the
United States
government that
would require
approval by Congress.
That's just sort of
there.
Get in a bunch of
his friends to also
be just sort of
there.
Nobody's wondering
not only what these
people's motivations
are, but, you
know, what are
their situations
regarding things
like clearance and
all these sorts of
background checks that
any of us would have
to pass in order to
be a high-level
government employee.
This is terrifying.
This is terrifying.
This is people who
do not have the
mandate of a
democratic election
to wield the
power that they
are claiming and
getting pretty much
unopposed at the
moment.
I was thinking of
something else,
which is, I mean,
there are so many
pieces of it, but
one of them is when
you take a theory
that has been
floated by the
current president and
decide that that's
the thing you're
going to run with.
I'm sure you guys
have heard the thing
about condoms in
Gaza and how they're
going to cut condoms
to Gaza because that
is like a sign of
government waste,
government overreach.
And apparently they're
conflating several
programs, including
one helping an AIDS
foundation in Gaza,
Mozambique, because
there are other places
called Gaza.
Wow.
I didn't know that was,
I knew they had it
wrong.
I didn't know they
had it that wrong.
Oh, they had it
extremely wrong.
And someone from USAID
was like, we spent five
cents per condom.
Gaza does not need a
billion condoms right
now.
Like, if you take
something and assume
it's wrong.
However, I did read
something, a theory
that's going around,
which is as
distasteful as I find
it conceptually.
If we people,
generally speaking,
begin referring to
apartheid Clyde as
President Musk, that's
going to get under the
president's skin and
he will cut ties.
Well, you know,
people have been
trying that for a
while now.
They've been saying
President Trump, I
mean, President
Musk for a while
now.
And it doesn't seem
to be getting to
him yet.
We don't know what's
going on behind the
scenes.
But I think even
without that attempt,
eventually the
attention is all it
will take to foster
up some hostility
between the two.
But, you know, we
can't really rely on
that.
We also have to,
you know, fight back
ourselves as individuals,
as people who care
about privacy.
Yeah, if people
contact their
representatives and
senators, if Congress
disapproves of this
kind of activity, my
next kind of logical
question is when will
these actors, these
agents be arrested or
detained or investigated
or all the above?
And how will those, the
powers of Congress
enforce that compared
to the sorts of
protections they're
being given in this
sort of unofficial
capacity?
And I think the logic
behind the relationship
as it stands now is
that technically Trump
needs these actors
because he himself
really does not have
the cadres of
individuals that are
even interested in this
kind of stuff.
he just has deputized
these people as
fit to do his
bidding in this
capacity, whether it
is legal or not.
And he's giving, he's
sort of giving them
some perceived cover,
whether he actually has
that or not, or has
tested that or not.
And I think it's
really incumbent on
us to activate those
that represent us, no
matter where you sit in
this.
If you're a veteran, if
you're in a red or a
blue part of the
country, I think the
details in this and the
scope will profoundly
affect whatever life and
a community you're a
part of, because the
fall on effects for
those that are losing
their jobs or that are
going to be victimized
by this or not be able
to run their
organization, they're in
your community.
They are your
neighbors.
And if you think that
there's, you know, too
much of one thing or not
enough of another, you're
probably going to be
surprised by how much
more or how much worse
any of your particular
pet issues is.
And that is the real
bottom line to all of
this.
That, yeah, you may see
one thing and think this
is the answer, but I
believe that if you
really look into it and
understand why we have
protections for some of
these things, and
when it, especially when
it comes to the, basically
all of us.
I mean, that's what
these systems are
responsible for.
And you think that
somehow this is going to
improve government by
doing it in unorthodox
ways and without
oversight and the kinds
of processes that have
been developed through
law.
I think you don't
really, in a serious
way, believe government
has a function or a
purpose at all.
Quite possibly.
And that may be your
opinion, but you, again,
you haven't really lived
much of a life without
one.
So buckle up.
You know, this is going
to be a rude awakening if
we don't activate and be
incredibly vocal.
Talk to your neighbors.
Talk to people you might
disagree with about, you
know, all kinds, all
manner of issues.
But I would be willing
to wager that most of
us give a damn about how
our personal identifiable
information and how our
payments and various
services that we access,
how that all works.
Whether you benefit
directly, it's in your
backyard, and it will come
home to roost if we do
not get action from
Congress.
Our email address here at
OffTheHook is OTH
at 2600.com.
We'd love to hear your
thoughts and feelings.
Also, we're on social
media in various places,
on Blue Sky and Macedon
and Twitter.
You can find us on, just by
asking around, I guess,
OffTheHook.
But here's a couple of
bits of feedback that we
got in recent weeks.
Tonight's episode, we were
talking about some of the
threats that hadn't yet
happened.
Tonight's episode was
fantastic, so good to hear
this conversation and know
it went out over the air.
This might be the most
important time ever for
OffTheHook.
Grateful for you all.
Thank you very much for
that sentiment.
Here's another.
I'm glad the listener wrote
in challenging OffTheHook to
go an episode without
talking about politics, only
because it gave you guys an
opportunity to give the best
response possible to such a
ridiculous request.
It's good to see people get it.
You know, these things are
relevant, they're important,
and avoiding them, that's how
we get into these messes.
All right?
This is relevant to every
single one of you.
It's not just for the people
that are billionaires, not just
for the people who get
elected, not just for the
people who follow politics
all the time.
This affects our lives.
And when you see clowns going
around like they've done over
the last week without any kind
regard for our privacy, our
security, or our future, you
have to speak up.
You have to take an interest.
You have to have conversations.
And maybe stick a bumper
sticker or two up, or even
graffiti.
You know what?
I don't care.
Express yourself one way or
another.
It's more important than you
could possibly know.
We are out of time for the
radio, but you know what?
We're going to be on
overtime.
And you can get to overtime by
going to youtube.com and
entering channel 2600, all one
word.
We will be starting at 8.
We'll be taking phone calls.
And, of course, we will be back
here on WBAI next Wednesday at
7.
Please, please support WBAI because
you know, no place else will you
find a place that such ideas are
able to be passed back and forth
where free debate exists.
Go ahead, Rob.
Also, now it's more important, I
think, than it has been in a long
time to get out there and
communicate with people about
everything that's going on.
And one place you can do that is
at a 2600 meeting.
Check them out all over the world
this Friday, 2600.com slash
meetings.
Remember, you're not alone.
There are all kinds of struggles
and fights going on and people
that need our help.
And let's not do what this song
says.
Good night.
If the nation's in progress is ours
once or more, now that we have
the new Teron bomb, it's nice and
quick and clean and justice done.
Away with the sense of the
maybe, but no less value to
The sense in war and perfect sense at home
The sun's been found on a brand new day
No more will be taxed to pay
If something's done, I feel fair to delight
The brothers' millions whisk away
Unless we have more room to play
All systems go and kill the fool at the night
Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill the fool
Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill the fool
Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill the fool at the night
It's a spark of light champagne
You kind of start to play again
A light's a breeze if you miss it and white
Take under on the screen today
And it's so residence today
So let's get wasted and swear in it
Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill the fool
Kill, kill, kill, kill the fool
Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill the fool at the night
Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill the fool
Kill, kill, kill, kill the fools
Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill the fools
And I fight
Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill the fools
Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill the fools
Oh, oh, oh
We'll be right back.


And welcome everybody to Overtime here on YouTube. I seem to be here in YouTube land.
Kyle, you make it okay? Yes. It's weird here in YouTube land.
Rob, is that you? Do I see you in the distance? That is in fact me. Okay, and you're on YouTube
as well. Is that Gila? Gila, are you there? Okay, welcome. Welcome to YouTube. And Alex didn't
make it, did he? Oh, that's too bad. What happened to him? Oh, there he is. Okay, I thought something
bad happened to you. It happens sometimes. Oh, no, here I am. And my mic's on, which is,
you know. That is a February miracle. That's for sure. And can we confirm
that we are, in fact, actually broadcasting on YouTube as well? We can, in fact, confirm
that. Welcome to the 34 people who are streaming with us. As I say that right now. Also, for
what it's worth, when the stream began, it was as you were talking to us. So that was,
if we looked a little dazed for a second, it was because you were here and you were here
and there was a lot happening all at once. Wait, are you saying I started talking mid-sentence?
No, they were. So. What? They're monitoring both. Oh. So it's like you're getting a delay
and you have the delay to get to the site and then you also have other delay and yeah,
and they're also hearing us live. Okay. Yes. We found ourselves dealing with two Emanuals
at once and we weren't prepared. Also, thank you for the translation, Kyle. Sorry, Gila.
I often told that. No, I appreciate it. One of me is more than enough, so I'm sorry you had to deal
with two of me. All right. Well, you know what? Our phone number 802-321-4225 in case people just
want to jump right in and say what's on their mind. But boy, you know, this has been a difficult week.
It really has been because, you know, you don't know what's going to happen from one moment to
the next. It's kind of like, you know, it reminds me of the pandemic because, you know, when that first
was beginning, it just seemed like things were constantly getting worse and we didn't know how
bad they were going to get. We really didn't. And a lot of people seem to forget that now. They're
able to look back with 20-20 hindsight and say, well, this is what we got wrong. Okay. But at the
time, people didn't know that and people were panicking and people were dying. There's no question
about that. But, you know, you'd wake up one day and the stock market would be down a thousand points.
And not that I really care about that, but it just sort of indicated how unpredictable
everything was. I kind of feel like that's where we are now. In fact, I also feel like
this is just another disease. And, you know, I don't mean that to be nasty. I just mean that
it's a sickness. Well, I guess I'm still being nasty, but it's this kind of blatant ignorance.
There's no way I can say it without being nasty. I'm sorry. But this kind of thing that's going on,
you know, it's, it's just, it's so regrettable. It's, it's so easy to avoid. And it's also so
inevitable that we have to go through this, you know, to learn. And it sucks that we have to do
that. But here we are. And how we act and how we treat each other, I think that becomes so important
now. I just don't want anybody to feel like they're the only voice in the wilderness crying out
against this. And, um, for those of you who, for some reason support this, all right, you know what,
I, I would like to be proven wrong, but I don't think I will be. And, um, yeah, I don't really know
if I'd like to be proven wrong because I would mean that this kind of thing is okay. I don't see how
this ends well. I do see how there'll be new beginnings. I do see how we'll need to rebuild
and, um, do things better. But, um, let's hold on to our values. Let's hold on to our, um, our,
our love of democracy and, and, and, and conversation and diversity. Yeah, I'll say it.
Something I've been thinking about is how, uh, we need to be forceful, not fearful at this time.
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Alex, uh, what are you typing there? It's very loud.
Oh, I didn't realize that my mic wasn't muted. That's the problem with having it open there.
Yeah. Well, okay. If the mic is, is on and you're typing or your mic is off and you're talking. So
which is it? Yeah, that's right. I was just trying to add ambiance with a mechanical keyboard to the
discussion. Alex, you are the ambiance. So don't, you don't have to add anything. That's true. Well,
I, I, what I was doing was scouring through some, some other TLDs using the same script that I wrote.
Did another gov site get registered while we were talking?
No, no, not, not that, not that I've seen it. Oh, I won't be able to check for new things until
tomorrow. Why not? When all my data is updated. Why can't you check right now?
Well, because I, I need, I need updated zone files in order to figure out what's in the
.gov zone. And, um, and I won't get those until tomorrow. I mean, I guess I could, I could
technically download the new zone files, but I don't think they will have been updated until
tomorrow morning. Okay. All right. So there's a little bit, a little bit of a lag, but I was,
was looking through other TLDs and figuring out just specifically what was new and, you know,
how active these things were, but yeah, this, this find today was, was really quite interesting.
Oh yeah. Uh, this whole last week or two, uh, has been, has been quite interesting. Uh, it's,
it's too bad we didn't get to do a show last week. And, uh, you know, quickly, the reason we weren't
able to do that, we did have, um, um, a software issue that we, um, we, we, we didn't find until it
was too late to, to resume what we were trying to do. Um, we, we were, we, we, we took extra steps
to ensure that the sound sounded good, but in so doing somehow something got reverted. That was
kind of undetectable. Did you want to say more about that Kyle? Yeah. Part of it is like just
sort of unexplainable at this point. I had been, um, playing around, which is always,
uh, always, uh, uh, an indicator that things might go wrong, but I was, I was testing out
some software, uh, known as ice cast because I was interested in alternatives or at least backups
to some of the streaming that we're already doing now with a service provider like YouTube.
So in doing that, like playing with a client, this was like mid December. So, um, because the
bandwidth issue or something was slowing down a bit last week, we rebooted a couple of times and
ended up that our, um, our connection to the studio, one of some of the parameters had been
changed to, um, that particular service and, uh, a different, um, codec that we don't use.
It didn't get changed by us though. That's the thing to emphasize. I can't explain it. It was
changed by the program itself, but we had, we didn't expect that so that we weren't looking for it.
Yeah. I wasn't looking at those settings. Um, and we, we, you know, we have a couple
backups and things that we normally go through in this situation. And, um, and it really,
it really is that we were troubleshooting this one thing and, and weren't looking there. It took
too long to switch to, um, uh, other of our guests or other systems at the station that we could have
used. And they were really trying back at, uh, WBAI big shout out to everybody there on the engineering
side, uh, doing their absolute best to, to make things work. But it really ended up being sort
of an unexplainable thing after we rebooted. And, and I think we were doing that just to make sure
everything was working, but, uh, we figured it out and it won't happen again. I promise that won't
happen again. Something else will, but not that. So that's, that's, check that one off the, off the
list. I was the pilot and yeah, it's my fault. So a lot of our listeners, especially our active
chatters, um, have been offering very helpful suggestions about last week and in general with
other issues we've been having. Um, I'm going to make a statement. I would like it if you guys could
help me on that. Um, the systems we're using to connect to the station are not ours to select,
correct? Um, that's correct. There's a broadcast equipment and we're using, um, some of the best
software that we have. It was misconfigured. That was the problem. Uh, when it's set right,
it works fantastic. Absolutely. So we do appreciate the feedback we're getting from a lot of our listeners,
but do need to remind you, especially the folks who don't live in WBAI broadcast range that we are
not exclusively a podcast. And because we do broadcast on terrestrial radio immediately before
this, some of the setup that we have is tied in directly to what works for the station and is not
exclusively. We love you guys, but this event is not exclusively about the overtime broadcast.
It was, it was, uh, overtime that I was thinking of, but you're absolutely right.
You can't have overtime without off the hook. Just to make that clear, you know, if, if you had,
if the Rangers played the Islanders, right. And you just had overtime, you didn't have the game.
Don't you think the fans would be kind of pissed off? Of course they would be. That's not how it
works. Overtime follows regular time. And that's, we don't call the show regular time. We call it off
the hook, but that's not the issue. The issue is we do that show. And then afterwards, as we're
sitting back and relaxing and hanging out with our friends who I believe everybody on this, on this
particular, uh, uh, forum is, uh, we, we, uh, you know, do overtime and then, uh, we do super overtime
after that, but we're not going to talk about that. Yes. Uh, Rob, go ahead.
Yes. Just, you know, well, well put. And, uh, to put it another way, if you don't off the hook,
you can't have any overtime. How can you have any overtime if you don't off the hook?
All right. Now we're going to have to deal with Roger Waters on that. So, uh, yeah. Um, all right.
So, um, we have a phone call who's been waiting a very long time. They're very patient. They may not
have remained there. Let's find out how patient they are. Good evening. You're on off the hook
overtime. Go ahead. Are you still there? Yeah. I don't think they're very patient. I don't think
they, they hung around. All right. Well then our phone number once again is eight zero two three
two one four two two five. And, um, if somebody calls in, we'll, uh, we'll, we'll, we'll put you
on. Um, yes. So I had, excuse me, a thought. I would also like to point out that, um, Trader Joe's
now has a Caesar salad dip and it's amazing. So jump on that if you can. What the hell does that
have to do with anything else? I've been noshing on it and it's delicious, but that was why I
had to clear my throat. Okay. So I did want to share a piece of wisdom from my faith tradition
that I think speaks to this particular moment. Go ahead. He used to say it is not your duty
to finish the work, but neither are you at liberty to neglect it. We know that each one
of us individually is not going to be able to do everything that needs to be done right
now, but it is incumbent upon you to do what you can. You need to make sure that you are
participating in the fight, whatever your role in that is, you can't do nothing. You
can't do it all alone, but you can't do nothing. And I think that really, I mean, I try to keep
that in mind all the time, but I think it really speaks beautifully to a lot of what we've been
talking about tonight and in general.
Well said. And I, you know, I think a lot of people might not realize how easy it is not to do
nothing, how low a bar that is to do something. The smallest, the smallest effort matters. It can
reach somebody, talking to somebody, you know, listening to somebody, reading something and
sharing something, you know, just, just participating in some way that is not nothing.
All right. And we all have the ability to do that. I know it's, it's a lot. I know
it's, it's easy to feel completely overwhelmed and that there's no hope and that we're all just,
you know, hurtling to our doom one way or another. But we're together and we have each other and we
have our voices and we should use them, you know, because we're in a unique place. I like to say that,
you know, that sure it sucks and it's crazy and we deserve better, but boy, this is an
interesting time, isn't it? And, uh, they're going to write all kinds of history books and
maybe what you say will matter in the years ahead. Who knows, but you're in a unique place
and you're with friends. So let's try to remember that. All right. We have a phone call. Good
evening. You're on off the cover time. Go ahead. Hello. I am the first caller. You're the first
caller. Could you speak up first caller? Uh, is this better? I'm putting my hand to direct my voice
into the microphone. That is better. Yes. Where are you calling from? I am Lou Raichu. I am calling
from Washington, DC, which is practically Donald Trump's backyard, which makes everything that was
on off the hook a bit more scarier. Yes. So that's me there. Wow. What's on your mind?
I mean, I mean, I think I've been listening to the show for a while now. We do the magazine,
all that. Yeah. One of the things that, uh, my friend said was that, you know, after the,
after the orange guy, you know, after his, after his four years, everything's going to be so screwed
up, he's just to say, well, I'm going to declare martial law. And, you know, this is how it is. I
stay in power. So I'm just thinking about what happened to the Philippines, other places where
the, they declare martial law. Yeah. Interesting. Even with the Philippines, you know, a place that
lived through the, the hell of Ferdinand Marcos. And then what do they do? They elect Ferdinand
Marcos Jr. to take over the country. And, you know, it seems kind of like a parallel, you know,
we are not the only country that supposedly loses its mind occasionally and does something that
clearly is not in our best interest, but maybe somehow that moves us forward. I don't know how,
but maybe somehow that's what winds up happening.
Oh, I hope. I mean, there's going to be a lot of stuff to clean up after this guy. Well, we'll
see. I don't know. I mean, the other thing I wanted to say, since I got here before Rebel,
I've been hearing him.
Good job, by the way. No, good job on that. Thank you.
Yeah. Well, hopefully this won't distract him too much, but he's been going on about using the
Lynx browser on his, uh, on one PC. Now I like to use another text-based browser called W3M.
It's in the, uh, package repository of most distros. Okay. So, um, yeah, I just grabbed that,
but what's special about, uh, W3M is that it can display images in your terminal. I usually use it
in, uh, framebuffer mode. So you do control out and then one of the F keys. I think on most systems,
uh, the desktop, the X server starts on, uh, framebuffer, the FB6. So to get to that, you do
control out F6, but, uh, you just do control out one of the function keys and you get to a framebuffer
terminal where you can log in and do that. Once you're in the framebuffer terminal, you can just
type W3M, uh, make sure you got the W3M dash IMG package to display images. Whenever you go to a
site, it will display the images for the site. So that's pretty neat. That is neat. Wow. W3M.
Oh dear. Well, that's an interesting way to, uh, end the conversation, but, uh,
mic drop. I'm sorry. Go ahead. That's a mic drop. I guess it is. No, busy signal for those
that don't know what that sound is. That's a bit. Well, it wasn't a busy signal in this case. It
was end of call, I guess. Yes. So I did want to remind everybody that the caller who we were just
on with has been hanging in hard with us since the beginning of overtime. And do you all remember
about 14, 15 months ago, a listener remixed us saying the words gay furry hackers. Yes, I do remember
that. That was the caller. Wow. I don't remember, I don't remember saying that, but I do remember
somebody remixing that. That was why when we heard the name, you saw like me freak out because I was
just so excited. I thought you were choking on the Trader Joe salad. That's what I thought was
happening. It's dip. It's Caesar salad dip. And I have to tell you, it's really, really good. No,
no spawn con, except to, except to say that if you want to go out on SoundCloud and look up Blue
Raichu and the gay furry hackers track, it's still there and it's still up and it still slaps,
you know, as long as we're promoting things, can I promote the hope conference? Because this is
something that's happening this year and it's going to be super important. It already is.
For the first time ever, we're doing hope conferences in consecutive years. That's never
happened before. At first it was every three years and it was every two years. And now, you know,
if it's every one year, so be it, you know, we'll work a little harder, but we'll,
we'll have a lot more to say. And I think it'll, it'll, it'll keep growing and become more and more
important, but for it to work, we need people obviously to buy tickets. We need people to submit
talks. We need people to submit workshop ideas. Please join the people who are doing that already.
As we're not very good at promoting ourselves, we need all the help we can get as far as getting the
word out. All the info right now is at hope.net. We're, we're very, very close to getting the
dormitories open. I just was checking that out last night, in fact, and it's an incredible deal.
You'd stay on campus. And basically it's like a, you know, it's like going away camping for,
for a few days on campus, except you're in the middle of hope. It's really an awesome way to do it.
Uh, and of course we'll have hotel deals too, in, in, in the area as well. Uh, but mostly we just
want to hear, uh, what, what people are up to. We want to see creative ideas, uh, technology used in
all sorts of different ways. Um, you can be coming from any, any walk of life, any, um, uh, philosophy.
Um, we want to hear from you and we want to see people participate. And, uh, it's a hackers on
planet earth conference for the first time in an odd year. Well, second time in an odd year,
because 1997, uh, was our second conference. But ever since then, it's been only even years.
And, um, this time it's going to be every year that's assuming that's assuming that, um, people
show up that we get, um, uh, you know, enough people to make this something we're willing to
pour our hearts and souls into. And you know what? We also need volunteers to help us do this.
Volunteering is a lot of fun and it's something where you learn all kinds of things.
You meet all sorts of people and you really build a community. It's, it's one of the most
incredible things. So all the info is at hope.net and, um, we really hope to see you there and we
hope to, uh, build an incredible conference and let's make this a yearly thing. You know,
we talked about doubling down when this whole thing got started, when, um, um, we realized what
we were in for for the next four years. Uh, well, okay. You know, we'll double down. We'll work
harder. We'll, um, uh, do more of what we do. And if that turns out to be a good idea, if that's
something that people support, then we're gaining something from what could be negativity. So
it's one way we can, we can build a better world, I think. So, uh, hope.net another thing, another
thing I'd like to ask people for their support, um, write articles for 2600. You know, we, we,
we just put out the issue, uh, a couple of weeks ago. If you notice the cover, you guys see the
cover. Uh, yeah. Elon Musk is on the cover never before, never before has a cover come out, uh,
in such a timely manner because, you know, he was in the news when we, uh, put the cover together,
which was about two months ago. Um, but now he's really in the news and, um, yeah, there he is on,
on newsstands all around the world now. And he's not happy about that. Um, so if, um, yeah, if you
want to make him, uh, uh, less happy, uh, well, um, I guess leave it on the newsstand so more people
will see it, but now buy the issue, bring the issue home, frame it. Oh, we also have shirts.
We have shirts with his face on it too. So there's all kinds of ways that you can annoy him. Uh, but
most importantly, uh, supporting the magazine is what makes all this possible. And, um, and please
write an article for us. If you are into any kind of technology, uh, or have ideas, thoughts, you know,
uh, uh, fun escapades stories from the past or the present right to us at, uh, 2600.com articles
at 2600.com. Uh, we also need, uh, more payphone photos. They've fallen off in the last few weeks.
I don't know why, you know, we, we, we, we have about maybe a third, but we usually have
at this particular time. And I don't know if everybody's distracted. I do know there's less
payphones, but, um, you know, they are still there and we certainly could use, um, more
documentation of them. So, um, payphones at 2600.com is the email address for that. All the
information is on 2600.com. Um, yeah, I think that's pretty much everything that I have to say
about that. And of course, what Rob said at the end of the show, 2600 meetings taking place this
Friday, all around the world, first Friday of the month, first Friday of February. So yeah,
a lot's going on. A lot is happening. Let's, um, let's make it fun and, uh, let's, let's be
there for each other. You can start your own meeting as well. Um, if you're in a place or
a country that does not have a lot of meetings, we encourage you to set one up and let us know
if people show up and you participate, uh, we'll be happy to add you to the next cycle of
our, our, um, publications of the, of those dates and locations, except in Canada where meetings
are illegal. Is that a challenge? Well, no, I, I'm saying that because I can't think of
any other reason why since the pandemic, you know, since the heyday of the pandemic, at
least it's, uh, they've, they've, uh, disappeared. No meetings have, have relaunched. I think we
have one meeting relaunched, but it didn't last very long, but come on, you know, Montreal,
Toronto, Ottawa, Vancouver, Winnipeg, there, there, there are so many places to have meetings
that we have had meetings in the past and all kinds of other places in the United States,
Europe, Asia have relaunched. Uh, so I don't understand what's going on in Canada. So if
you're in Canada, uh, go to, uh, uh, the meeting part of our 2600 page 2600.com slash meetings,
uh, and, uh, read the guidelines, start your own meeting, let us know, and we will publicize
it. And let's, let's get hackers together in Canada again. Uh, unless there's a reason,
unless maybe there is a law against, against hackers meeting on the first Friday of the
month in a food court or something. Gila, did you have something? I did actually, we had
a request to give out the number, which I realized we haven't done yet this evening. I mean, there's
somebody on the, did we? I said the number several times. I'm pretty sure I did. Well, Kyle's
going to say it now. 802-321-4225. I guess everybody will hear that, but they won't hear
me. That's fine. That's no problem. We do have a call as well. And we have a call. Go ahead,
Gila. No, no, no, no, no, no. I, sorry. I was just confused. Okay. We're all confused.
Is that the call you were talking about, Kyle? It was a call. That's our other show calling us.
That's what's happening there. That's our theme song. That's very exciting. Um, where can I get
off the hook magazine? That's a great question. Wow. Where can you get off the hook magazine?
That's what, what, what, what's wrong with us? Why aren't we doing that? Why aren't we,
let's fire up the desktop publisher and put out another magazine. Someone in the chat has this
question. Okay. So maybe they're asking where they can get 2600 magazine. It just came out wrong.
Right. Is that, is that what you meant? Uh, uh, query person where they come from? Is this a letter?
What is this? No, this is someone pop this in the chat. Oh, chatter. Okay. Um, go ahead.
Yes. So until, and unless we start, um, our own off the hook zine, which I volunteered to copy on our
brother machine over here, um, a 2600 magazine can be found in bookstores and newsstands around the
world, right? It's every Barnes and Noble, um, pretty much every book chain in the continental
United States and Canada that still exists a little harder to find overseas, but you can get it easily
on our store store.2600.com. You can get printed copies. You can get a digital copy. You can have
a digital copy tonight. Yeah. It's, it's, it's easy back issues, all sorts of things. So, um, it's,
it's, it's really simple to get. Yeah. The name of the magazine is 2600, the hacker quarterly. Yes.
That is, uh, the official name and people could be forgiven. If you're just listening to off the hook
or off the hook over time, we don't actually talk about the publication in the same, uh, venue,
but it is certainly, um, another of our outlets for information from hackers written by hackers,
uh, uh, compiled and, and edited by hackers and, um, put forth out into the world to spread the word
about what the modern hacker and what telecommunications networks are all about these days. We also talk
about vintage systems, how the current system was built and, um, you know, sort of the roots of it
with the base of that, the foundation that, uh, we've basically come to know and that has evolved
into the many modes that we communicate now. So yeah, we haven't mentioned it as much on the show,
but it is 2600, the hacker quarterly. You can find out everything and get links to everything at 2600.com
to expand on, on what Kyle is saying. Uh, this is a magazine that was founded by hackers. It's written
by hackers. It's, um, uh, distributed by hackers, read by hackers, discussed by hackers and filed away
in libraries by hackers for all time because it lasts forever. You can read an issue of 2600 from 1987
and you'll find yourself reading the articles because they're still interesting or, or reading the
letters, you know, or looking at the pictures. That's a, that's the magic of, of, of a magazine
like this. So, um, it's, it's great. We're all bound together by this. Now we have another phone
call. I think, is this our theme calling us again? Hopefully not. I don't know. I picked it up so
quickly. I have no idea what's on the other. No idea. Okay. Well, let's see what, what, what's out
there. Good evening. You're on off the hook over time. Go ahead. Oh, hi. I appreciate everything
you've said so far. And I, they're saying, you might recall me. Well, I, I call, I've called a
few times, but right after the election, I said, this is Germany, 1933 or 32, because it was, was
before 33. And now you're just seeing how they're doing it. Okay. Nobody knew the, what the actual
mechanical devices would be that they're, but they're definitely doing what Hitler did, a cool from the
inside. But aside from that, you also mentioned the pandemic, and it looks like a new one is
budding. This is just fresh off the press. A version of the H5N1 birth flu virus known as B3.13
was confirmed in March after being introduced to cattle in late 2023, scientists say. Now this one
has been detected in dairy cows in the U S as you know, the fire, the virus, the previous
birth, birth flu virus already jumped to humans. So, you know, and, and I'm not trying to propagate
a conspiracy theory. We had a pandemic with the first Trump and because of his craven idiotic
policies of isolationists, isolationism is the same thing is happening again. He didn't withdraw from
the WHO with the first pandemic, but he let the candidate of China, the Ethiopian now in charge of the WHO
being elected because he refused to back an interesting candidate who was an epidemiologist
by the name of Navarro, but he spelled his, his name with a B instead of a V as the corrupt official
who went to jail, uh, during, um, the congressional, uh, for, for congressional, uh, sorry, for contempt of
Congress. Uh, and he worked in the first Trump administration. I think it was the commerce
representative, but, uh, Dr. Navarro, uh, campaigned and was not elected. Davros, whatever his last name
is, uh, the Ethiopian candidate is in, he was beholden to China. And again, I'm not, I'm not making a
conspiracy. I'm just stating facts. We'll see what happens this time. Yeah. That's all we can do is
see what happens. No, I know I'm all for continuing to talk, but we also have to mount a decisive
response to what's going on. And, you know, I don't know what it could be, but talking alone is not
enough. These people are organized. They came in for it with a plan and they're implementing the plan.
Now you're absolutely right about that because that is something that, um, uh, people I agree
with for the most part don't seem to get, you know, as far as turning out, being loud and obnoxious,
I think in ways oftentimes we're too considerate, you know, the, the right wingers, this is one thing
they get right. They, they know what they want. It's simple. They want their way, nothing else,
but they keep demanding that. And enough of them agree what their way is that they get together.
And, um, they can't be ignored. Whereas our side, we, we kind of, we want to hear from other
people as well. And we want to know that we're being fair and we want to, uh, you know, not be
intimidating. And I, you know, I get that for the most part, I get that. But sometimes when you're
pushed into a corner, you have to react like what you're saying. You have to do more than just talk.
You have to show up. You have to be loud. You have to be abrasive. You have to be offensive sometimes.
And I think we're being pushed into that. And if we don't do that, we're, we're, we're just going
to, um, uh, you know, forever be victims. It's time that, you know, in Germany, for instance,
a quarter of a million people showed up to demonstrate against Elon Musk and what he's doing
there with a far right Nazi party that he basically supports, you know, here he is in this country,
taking over our private data and, and, and violating our privacy. And we're, we're doing
barely anything. You know, we're getting Chuck Schumer peering over his glasses, telling folktales
and, you know, it's, it's not enough. We need more than that.
I totally agree. And, you know, one part of what you say is ingrained in quote, our side
being the side of reason is we are the side of reason. We are reasonable by definition.
So we are not the, the screamy, uh, outraged, uh, fascist who, who the other side seems to
cherish at this point, but we do have to do something. And, you know, uh, we, we need to
talk about that. Uh, talking is good, but we need to talk about taking action, showing,
showing signs, showing signs of dissent, you know, that, that is important. You know, I,
I can't tell you over the last, um, um, um, 10 or so years, the people who are opposed to what this
country has been going through, they're very cautious about expressing that. Whereas the people
who are in favor of, of, you know, more of the kinds of things that we wince at, they don't seem
to be at all afraid to express themselves. You know, they wave their banners, they put up stickers
everywhere. They, they basically say whatever is on their mind. And we just have to sort of grin and
bear it and say, we're better than that, but not too loud because you say it too loud, it might,
you know, evoke some kind of a conflict or confrontation. I think maybe those days need
to be in the past where people start speaking a little louder and not being quiet. You know,
I, I, I get, I get. Well, they are in the past. They are in the past. And as you rightly pointed out,
once people see their social security payments being suspended or their veteran checks being
suspended or their money supply being suspended simply because they're speaking up or they're
not liked by the present administration, it may ring a bell, but it may be too late.
Well, they have that kind of grip on our lives. We have, you know, we, we need, we need to not let
it get to that, but it is getting to that very quickly. Well, I think, I think it's gotten to
that. I think it's gotten to that. And the question is, um, you know, I don't think it's
ever too late because even amongst the rubble, we can rebuild, but how much rebuilding do we want to
have to do? Maybe we have to do a lot, but right now it's really, it's not the time to stay quiet
anymore. It really isn't unless you really want to see it all fall apart.
I totally agree. I'll, I'll let someone else speak as well. Thank you so much.
Thank you for the good work. Thank you. Take care. And am I right? Why is my voice like,
oh, because this is a, okay, sorry. Am I right? We have more listeners than I think we've ever had.
I saw 84. We've never been above like 40. What's going on? Gila, what are you doing?
I, I, I don't know what's happening. I'm thrilled. Everybody is here. We got 84 people with us right
now. This is insane. Another 16 and I can see if this thing can hold three digits.
That's correct. All right. So now we're up to 85. All right. 15 more people. And I can, I can,
I can expand the, um, the screen here. I mean, y'all load up on guns, bring your friends. I'm just
saying, um, wait, what? The team spirit. Oh, thanks. I don't know when I'm being quoted at. I'm sorry.
We have another phone call. Yes. Okay. Uh, again, uh, should point out the phone number,
which I'm going to give out yet again, eight zero two, three, two, one, four, two, two, five.
If you call that number now, you will wind up in voicemail hell. Uh, and there's not much that you
can do about that, unfortunately. Uh, but you have to wait till somebody stops talking and then there's,
there's a single line and a lot of other lines that go to voicemail. That's just how it works.
And I guess it's an opportunity now to call in because nobody's on the phone.
802. So I ripped it off the wall. I'm sorry. 802. Three, two, one, four, two, two, five is our
phone number. I cut myself while I was shaving. All right. Enough of that. I can't make a call.
Yeah. It's just a YouTube. I don't think you can even do that on YouTube without it.
It couldn't get much worse here. Oh no. I think it's quite the opposite.
It's getting much, much worse. Here we go again.
Keela, every week. Watch out. Watch out. All right.
Do you have a phone call? Yes. All right. And good evening. You're on off the hook overtime. Go ahead.
There's nobody there, Kyle.
See, that's a busy signal, even though it's not really indicating a busy line.
That's just what you get now for some reason. I think we're up to 90 now.
Well, you know, here's the thing. When you get more people involved,
you get more jokesters involved and that's why you're getting off the hook tones and busy signals
and things like that. Assume people will call and tone us. You know what that is when someone calls
and leans on a touchstone? Yeah. It's, you know, part of the dark side of popularity.
We can breeze through them. I mean, it's not even a thing.
87. Only 13 more and we get to 100.
Actually, I've got us at 90 right now.
Okay. How do we get more people to listen? Because we have to talk to them to get them
to listen, which means they're listening if we can talk to them.
All right. Last chance from this. Maybe some of the people who are listening now
can call their friends and ask them to listen to get us to 100.
Wouldn't that be nice? All right. We have a phone call. Good evening. You're on all the
cover time. Go ahead.
Hi. I'm your Toronto caller from a few months ago.
Hey, Toronto.
I have a call. Yes.
Where they have no meetings. They still have no meetings in Toronto, right?
Yeah. Well, I'm happy to try to start one.
Oh, that would be amazing.
I was part of an asterisk group. I was part of an asterisk group for about 10 years and
then it just died. But yeah, happy to start. I'll look into it and see and communicate
with you. But I have a couple of other questions.
Go ahead.
So we get some interesting news up here. And I'm wondering if anybody, does anybody know
about the biology theory about digital cities?
No, not expressly. Do you know who biology is?
Okay. So biology is a very smart guy. B-A-L-A-J-I-I, I believe. He's an American, I guess, of Indian
background. And he has like multiple PhDs, chemical engineering, mechanical engineering,
Stanford, you know, smart guy. Started, one of the founders of Coinbase.
He's left Coinbase about two years ago and he is in an undisclosed location someplace.
Oh, dear.
Some people suspect he's in Singapore, but we don't know.
Okay.
Anyway, he is, every time he gets interviewed, every time he's interviewed, the interview's
at least an hour and a half long and it's just full of stuff. And somebody asked, Tim Ferriss
asked him in an interview, he says, so what do you do in your spare time? He said, I read.
So he has this concept of digital cities and they are not geographic cities. They are virtual
cities and that this is what this is all about. Elon wants to create a digital, he wants to
create digital cities. And that's the ultimate. That's what he wants. And does anybody know
about the Mission to Mars book that was written by, who's the German that did the, I'm trying
to think. I can't think of the name right now. Anyway, it was a German, one of the paperclip
people, you know, that came from after the second war that the U.S. government let them
in because they had so much great engineering experience.
Okay.
I'll think of his name in a minute here. So he wrote a book called Mission to Mars and
the premise is that they're playing this Mission to Mars. And there's a lot of technical
information, evidently, about the rockets and how to land and all this stuff. But they
go on and they talk about that they actually made the Mission to Mars and when they get there,
there's already a colony there. And it's living underground. And you can find this. This is
available out there. And there's a colony already there. And they all live underground. And the
dictator of the colony is the Elon. And Musk's father read the book. And that's where Elon gets
his name. Interesting. You know, I saw a reference to that where Elon Musk himself apparently was
finding out about this. And he seems surprised like he had never heard of it before.
Well, what do you expect of somebody who attends the inauguration on ketamine?
Did you see the video of him in the background? He's like tweaking on drugs. He's really affected.
Well, he was sitting next to Trump's youngest son. And I think he was looking embarrassed. So yeah,
I could I could imagine.
So no, I mean, he admitted on an interview that he does ketamine once a week.
Okay, well, you know, anyway, it's his life.
Anyway, I'm just wondering if any that well, no, it is that if that's what you want, if that
I use I started business many years ago in Chicago, where I shared an office space with
a small company. And the company turned out to the owner turned out to every Friday night,
he wanted to he and his general manager wanted to just cook their cook their brains up. And then he
would do all kinds of things. And eventually, the business went bankrupt. The guy went bankrupt,
everything happened. And all I could think of was that, well, when you own your own business,
it gives you the right to do anything you want to, even if that means cooking it up your nose.
And he did. So anyway, I just wonder if anybody had seen this theory and what was going on. And I'm
looking at it as a guide to what we can expect, because I think all this stuff that Trump is
doing, first of all, I don't think he's smart enough to know the stuff he's doing. This is all
project 2025 stuff that's been in the works for a while. And that they have an ultimate goal about
this. And I'm just, I'm trying to stay ahead of it. So I can stay above ground and alive.
And that's smart. That's smart to stay ahead of it and know these things and see what's coming.
Yeah, understanding people's philosophy and the things that are instructive to them
is a way to is a window into their thinking and perhaps forecasting their actions can be,
you know, derived from those, those insights. Yeah. And, and there are some, sad to say,
pretty smart people behind this. I think they've already figured out plan B, plan C and plan D.
So when people go to court and file suits and this and it's all, but I, it was amazing to watch on the
news today that no number of people demonstrating around and every state capital around the United States.
Well, it does not have to be one thing at a time. Yeah. That's true. Well, I can't say I was smart
enough 20 years ago when I came to Canada, uh, to come here, but boy, am I glad I'm here.
Yeah. Uh, you know, and, um, uh, Canada is just a breath of fresh air. You know, we've been watching
a lot of Canadian TV over the past couple of weeks and it's just, it's an oasis. It really is. And
please stay, stay who you are and don't, don't be affected by the craziness coming out of here.
Yeah. So, uh, has anybody, does it, has anybody ever read Heinlein, a stranger in a strange land?
Of course.
Ah, okay. So there's the Elon story right there. He's Michael Smith.
Oh, don't ruin that book, man. That's, that's such a good book. I hate to think. Oh Lord.
Oh no. The Trump, the trouble is I think Elon thinks he's Michael Smith.
Maybe, maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I don't think Michael Smith was ever that nasty and mean.
So, I mean, in the story anyway, I think he was benevolent and he, you know, meant well. And,
but, and that's what I thought of Elon up till about a month before he started supporting Trump.
Well, here's the thing, maybe this is it. Here's the thing, you know, um, I can't really identify
with Elon Musk, but I, you know, I've known people who are kind of like him. Um, and obviously he had
access to a lot of things. Obviously he was very enthusiastic and, you know, uh, pretty bright about
many things. Um, when you inject unlimited power, unlimited money, it changes who you are. And
unfortunately that is what has happened to him. He doesn't see it. His followers don't see it,
but it's, it's a tragic story. It will be a tragic story. Mark my words. Uh, because when you have
access to so much, um, I mean, look at what happened to Michael Jackson, you know, somebody who just
had his own world around him completely lose a sight and look at any, any dictator, look at Kim Jong-un,
look at Chesescu, look, look at, you know, even Lukashenko, all kinds of people that are just
blinded to what's going on in the actual world. And they don't see it coming when reality catches
up to them. And it's a damn shame because this guy, he has a lot to offer, you know, a lot of
his technology, it really, you know, it's, it's doing cool things, but the price, the price now is
just, it's, it's just way too high. It's, it's so negative now. So did you see that Amazon closing
down all their operations in province, Quebec? I did hear about that. They're claiming that.
Well, they're claiming that it has nothing has to do with the union, union trying to form, but I
think that's it, but well, and I heard the Bezos that I don't know when it was with us today or
recently said he wants every Amazon employee to wake up every morning and be terrified that they
might be fired that day and replaced by a robot. What a nice guy. Yeah. You see, it's just when
you have such wealth in your hands, such power, it's so rare that you stay a good person. It really
is. Anyway, listen, thank you for your call. I'm sorry, go ahead. The people that make it possible
to be there, no, just the people that make it possible for him that do what he does and be there
is the ones he's essentially taking a shit on. So thank you for taking my call and listening to me
your hand a little bit. And I hope, I hope we hear about a meeting coming out of Toronto soon.
Well, I'll go look it up and see what I can do about it. All right. Appreciate it.
Please come back. Thanks guys. All right. Take care. On the subject of Project 2025, remember
we were talking about Project 2025 last year, Republicans were saying, oh, this, you know,
that's just a bunch of people just independently coming up with ideas, got nothing to do with the
Trump campaign. You know what? They might not have been telling the truth. Some of the Office of
Personnel Management, OPM memos that have been sent to federal workers about firing and hiring freezes
and mandatory return to office demands. Well, according to 404 Media, they were seemingly written
by people who were previously employed by the Heritage Foundation and other conservative think
tanks with longstanding loyalties to President Donald Trump. That's according to metadata on
the memos posted by the government online. We know this because the senders of the memos
failed to scrub the metadata from those documents, making it easy for anyone to reveal the listed
authors of the memos. The 2025 Presidential Transition Project, better known as Project 2025, is a right-wing
agenda from the Heritage Foundation that lays out the blueprint for remaking the federal government
by firing government workers to install conservative right-wing figures. The priorities of its authors
include restricting access to reproductive care, mass deportations, and firing civil servants to
replace them with Trump loyalists. Memos to federal chief human capital officers, HR directors, and heads of
agencies are available publicly on the CHCO website. The memo author metadata was spotted by someone on
Reddit's r slash Fed News community in response to a federal workers post. So, yeah, that's from 404 Media.
Very definite link. So, in case you thought it was an exaggeration, it wasn't. And probably the next
warning won't be as well. Shout out to 404 Media, and I think the people that wrote the Wired article,
those investigators, and a lot of other independent self-publishing investigative journalists that are
talking to people, getting witnesses, getting information, getting sources together. It's helping
it make it to other outlets at a much higher frequency than normal, and it's really crucial to have
that and have those outlets continuing to do that work, however big or small.
And to those people who continue to criticize us for revealing information or just questioning things,
I mean, it's... When you realize who is actually calling the shots here and who is questioning them,
these are journalists, okay? Wired, 404 Media, all the others, they are journalists uncovering
things. If you're criticizing them, you're not questioning. If you think they're part of some
massive conspiracy, but the billionaires aren't, yeah, you're fooling yourselves. I mean, there's no
nice way to say that. Journalism is so important, and when journalism is the enemy, you're probably on
the wrong side.
Also, Ars Technica and The Register, stay salty out there.
Yeah, there's so many, so many. You need to support as much in the way of independent journalism
as possible. And you also see how they can get corrupted by those very same people,
those very same billionaires. When they buy newspapers, when they buy media organizations,
they can corrupt them. They can make them do their bidding. Remember when the Washington Post
wasn't allowed to endorse Kamala Harris? They had it written up, but Jeff Bezos said no.
And now that's the same Jeff Bezos threatening his workers, showing up on Inauguration Day,
bending the knee, kissing the ass. Yeah. Are we surprised? Are we having a phone call?
All right. 802-321-4225.
I believe this is a regular.
A regular caller?
Yes.
Good evening. You're on all phone call with time. Who are you?
Eleanor Elizabeth Borman, a regular caller.
Oh, hi. How are you doing?
Surviving. I've been better. I was just calling in to say Elon Musk is
one of quite a number of transhumanist billionaires.
Oh, he's not going to like the word, the trans part of that. I know that.
Oh, well, he's a transhumanist. He wants humans to merge with AI,
achieve a symbiosis with artificial intelligence.
And his company, Neuralink, aims to facilitate this.
Yeah, it almost sounds like it's going to be mandatory.
There's a lot of transhumanist billionaires who want human beings to separate themselves from their bodies.
Well, you know, I think there's probably a lot of people that would want him to do that first
and see how it goes and then get back to us.
Yeah, there are people who want to freeze themselves just before death
so they can be cured in the future.
Lots of luck with that.
Yeah, I think they need to work on the present before they think about the future
and maybe try to cure themselves now.
Anything else on your mind?
But you were just saying what you thought about Elon Musk thinking,
and so I just wanted to let you know that.
That's a good reminder.
That is also an aspect of this.
And there's a company for that, apparently.
And it has a lot to do with brain-computer interfaces,
which has been something that has been speculated about, theorized about,
written about for a very long time.
Unfortunately, when you have a sort of consolidation
or you have people first to market with something
and then they patent and make it impossible
for there to be any sort of competition
and then their benevolence ends up being mandatory as e-insinuated,
you create an environment where people do not have agency
in how they use these technologies.
Even if they voluntarily sign up,
there may be mechanisms and things that are designed
to sort of bypass free will without you even knowing.
So I think that level of discussion
is not something they want to be upfront about.
They want to demonstrate it and create a product,
but I don't know that they want to open up
how this will be implemented.
And you could be talking about a service like Amazon
in the same breath.
So, I mean, there's a lot about the implications
that discourse and the public comments
have to do the heavy lifting on.
If you could upload your pseudo-personality into a computer
and pretend that that's really you,
if you upload everyone into computers,
who's going to be taking care of the computers
and the electricity and everything else?
Exactly the questions, the types of questions.
And if it's that younger generations
or people that are not yet doing that,
transitioning, shall we say,
and they're learning from embodiments of past humans,
how can you guarantee or what sort of error checking
would even be possible to make sure
they're learning from the approximations
of those humans in an accurate way?
And then what type of society does it become?
Do you then have those generations
failing to meet their own basic needs
as a result of what they're taught
by the machines that are left?
You know, if this were a Black Mirror episode,
we would just now be discovering
that Elon Musk has already done this
and that he is AI, you know?
And I would explain an awful lot
and make it a lot easier to just, you know, unplug it.
Has anyone seen his personal assistant?
Oh, gosh, I feel sorry for whoever that is
or whatever that is.
Any other thoughts, caller?
No, that's what I caught up to say.
All right, well, hang in there.
And we'll see you down the road.
Okay.
Thank you.
All right, we're almost out of time,
but let's see if we can get
one or two more phone calls in.
We have so many listeners now.
802-321-4225.
It's weird, I can make my voice
do all kinds of things
just by moving that knob around.
It's returning the audio
so that the callers can hear us.
Oh, that's why, okay.
It's also going out to our guests
so they can monitor the phone calls themselves
since they're not here.
But to me, I sound more muffled like this,
but if I do this, I sound crisper,
but then I also sound a little distorted.
Well, I believe you're bringing the fader
past Unity on our mixer,
which adds dB to the output,
but I'm not exactly...
I love when you talk AV.
It's just so amazing.
I'm not exactly an audio engineer.
I'm self-taught,
and I have a lot to learn,
and there are much better audio engineers.
Well, there's an audio engineer
calling in to correct your words.
I'm sure there is.
And good evening.
You're on Off The Govertime.
Go ahead.
Yo, what's up?
How you doing?
Where are you calling from?
I'm calling from Newark.
Newark, New Jersey,
or Newark, Delaware?
New York, New Jersey.
Okay.
All right.
That's the original one.
How you doing today, Golsan?
I'm doing all right.
I'm doing all right.
How are you?
All this well, my brother.
All this well.
We're doing a little project with my dad.
We're building a little bi-pole,
and it came out pretty nice.
Cool.
I just came to talk...
I just want your take on, like,
apparently Elon Musk's takeovers
causing rifts in the president's inner circle.
What's your take on that?
Well, we were talking about that before.
It's inevitable that, you know,
Trump does not like when anybody
takes the spotlight from him.
And Elon Musk certainly
is taking the spotlight from anybody.
So I imagine he's already
a bit miffed at this.
Hasn't quite made its way
into the public yet,
but I give it maybe another week or two
before some indication of that happens.
Question is,
how does Elon Musk react to that?
Does he just, you know,
bow down to Trump,
or does he somehow stand up to him?
And that's going to be interesting
either way.
All right.
Thank you so much, brother.
I owe you a Pepsi.
Okay.
Fair enough.
Take care.
Well, I think
past evidence
has indicated
he tends to have a tenacity,
a sort of relentlessness.
Which one?
Elon Musk.
Okay.
About these kinds of projects.
Why do villains
always have single syllable last names?
I don't know.
I mean,
think about it.
It's not that interesting,
but...
Trump,
Musk,
Biden,
two syllables.
Obama,
three.
Huh?
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's right.
Sanders,
two.
It's like a simplified...
I'm just saying,
you know,
there's something there.
Yeah.
There's something there.
Does it instruct their
simple solutions for things?
But anyway,
I would just say that...
Finish your thought.
Even if things are going badly,
there may not be
an off-ramp in their mind.
No,
that's certainly true.
Before we go to this call,
people out in Skypland,
do you have anything to say?
You've been
kind of frozen there
for a while.
Now that we're talking about
villains with one-syllable last names,
I mean,
going back through presidents,
we've got Bush
and also Bush.
Yeah.
But then there's Reagan.
And then there's Nixon.
But Kennedy.
Kennedy,
three.
There's something there.
Cheney has two syllables.
Roosevelt.
Roosevelt.
Again,
three.
All right?
Eisenhower,
the best of all.
Four syllables.
And then Truman.
Okay.
I've said enough.
Good evening.
You're on off-look over time.
Go ahead.
Speak up.
Is anybody...
I just...
Go ahead,
you're on.
Can you hear me?
Yes.
Yeah,
no,
I just wanted to say something about today.
I was reading something where
the president signed a,
like,
ban trans in sports
kind of thing.
I don't know what it's,
some type of legislation that says
trans can't compete in,
I guess,
with men or something,
or with women,
whatever,
something like that.
Trans women cannot compete
in girls' or women's sports,
yes.
Something like that,
yeah.
He signed that legislation today.
And I just find that
this is like their new,
like,
this is like a new...
I'm not even on either side
of this trans thing.
I'm not even pro-trans,
and I'm just very neutral with this,
but I just think this is like
the new dog whistle
with these Republicans,
this whole trans thing.
They just,
they keep beating this thing to death.
You know,
there's like five trans people
even in sports.
I was reading something online
that actually looked into this,
and out of every sport
you can think of,
there's only three trans people
playing at any kind of serious level.
So this is about three people,
this whole thing.
There's only,
if you combine every sport,
only three of them.
So,
I mean,
they're just making,
they're just beating this thing to death,
trans, trans.
I don't know why this is,
and this is like their new thing.
It kind of just gets their gins up their base.
Well,
my theory,
my theory is that
it's relatively easy
to scare people
by saying that
there are men
in the locker room
of women,
and it's just,
it's really the most absurd thing.
You know,
ask the people
who are playing the sports
without their parents
hovering over them
to tell them what to say.
Ask them how
they actually feel about this.
Ask them how they feel
about their teammates.
Ask them if it's something
that intimidates them
in any way
or is unfair to them.
And listen to those answers.
Not,
you know,
the elderly,
white,
male politicians
that are using this
to get people into a panic
and to spread hatred around.
Because that is what we are seeing repeatedly.
Yeah.
It's like an invasion of,
they make it seem like
there's millions of these people
and they're all over,
and you know,
and he's just crazy.
Yeah.
I think,
I think you nailed it.
Aguila,
go ahead.
I mean,
it's also the same exact rhetoric
that's been used
to fear monger
about all kinds of groups
since time immemorial.
The exact same arguments
that are getting made
about trans people today
were made about gay people
20 years ago,
30 years ago,
were made about black people
60 or 70 years ago.
They're going to move next to you.
They're going to like,
turn your kids.
They're going to change the world.
Here's the other question I have.
How many of these people
have ever been
in a women's restroom?
Because you know
what we have in women's restrooms?
Doors.
Like,
men's rooms
have places
where you all stand there
and pee together,
and we don't have that.
Yes.
That's true.
In a public women's restroom,
there is a certain expectation
of privacy.
And if maybe somebody
knocks on your wall
and says,
hey,
do you have a tampon?
Then you pass a tampon
under the door.
We're not like
running in on each other.
And I think there is
a general lack of understanding
about what is actually
happening here
and attempting to be
this big scary boogeyman.
The first time
that I was in a
gender-free bathroom
was at the
Chaos Communication Congress.
And, you know,
I was in the building
and I was in the bathroom
and I was washing my hands.
And I just looked
to the right of me
and said,
oh, there's a woman
standing next to me.
Wow.
That was it.
I mean,
what else can you possibly
expect
in a bathroom setting?
You know,
you're doing your business
in a stall
and then you're washing
and then you're washing your hands.
I mean,
I think we can manage that.
That's not that big a deal.
And then in SeaTac Airport,
Seattle,
they have incredible bathrooms
where,
I don't spend a lot of time
in public bathrooms,
but these are two
that I remember.
And I remember going in there
and basically there's like
this kind of hallway
where people are there
with their baby carriages,
families,
and then there's stalls,
you know,
with doors that go
all the way down to the floor.
And you don't know
who's behind the door.
Could be a man.
Could be a woman.
Could be a child.
You have no idea.
It doesn't matter
because once you come out,
you're back
in mixed society again.
You know?
So as long as people
aren't going with you
into the stall,
this is a non-issue.
But what these politicians
have done,
they've made it into
a big issue
with a lot of the voting public
and they're panicking.
And whenever anybody
panics about something,
it's likely
they're being misled
by the people in charge.
I know.
I know.
I wish some of these voters
can actually look into this
and see that this is not,
there's no epidemic here.
There's not millions
of these people.
There's just very few
of these people
that even exist.
You know,
it's just,
you know,
I was reading something.
It's like less than 1%
of the American population
is trans.
This whole noise
is about less than 1%
of the American population.
But even if it was 10%,
it still wouldn't be an issue
because they're not
a threat,
you know?
I think that's the point
that you're making.
Go ahead, Carl.
I just want to make two points.
A big part of this
is about visibility
and resentment
around the visibility
because it might lead
to questions
that parents
don't want to answer
when it's brought up
or if there's,
you know,
issues in the learning
and learning environment,
people with classmates.
it kind of forces people
to confront things
that they may not
be familiar with.
And I think the increase
in visibility
and the discussion of it
validates the existence
of people
who are there already.
But by communicating
and talking about it,
it actually,
you know,
as difficult as it may be,
it does support
the understanding
that you're amongst people
in any of these
public spaces
at any one time
that may not be,
you know,
may not have had
the same experience
in life
as you at all,
especially around
their gender identity
and where they're at with it
and what is,
what is going to help them thrive
and feel safe
in our society.
And when you have people
that understand
they have their right
to exist,
you have support
in vast numbers.
But if you don't talk about it,
it creates, I think,
a much more dangerous environment
because there is
an understanding.
And this thing about
not being allowed
in female spaces,
I don't think people
quite realize
how much more dangerous
people identifying
in that way,
how much more dangerous
the time they would have
in male spaces
as sort of punishment
or being relegated to that
because of these kinds
of attitudes.
And it's essentially
making female spaces
as hostile,
potentially,
because of the kind
of policing
and discomfort
that is being promoted
around this.
So, yeah,
we're hearing more about it.
we should be hearing
more about people
that are not like,
you know,
the family members
we may encounter
or our typical
understandings,
but it doesn't mean
they're any less valid
or that they aren't
out there.
So, yeah,
in the past,
they may not have had
as much visibility,
but it's in part
due to my mind
that they're getting
a little bit more attention
and they have,
and with media
and social media
and the networks
that we're using,
the ability
for that information
to be in the discourse,
good or bad,
you know,
mal-informed or otherwise,
people are going
to be more aware.
So, we've got to counter
that sort of negativity
with, you know,
the kind of support
that being widely understood
should be
for these individuals
and for all of us
as a society.
So, like, yeah,
it's unfortunate
it's being characterized
this way,
but we have to appreciate
that this is an effect
of, you know,
the information age.
We should be aware
of this
and we should not
invalidate people
because of their experience
and with identity
and so forth.
So, that's just my take.
Anyway,
I enjoyed the show.
I enjoyed the show.
Thanks a lot
for taking my call.
All right,
thanks for calling.
Take care.
All right,
want to take one more
phone call?
Yes.
We still have, like,
at least twice as many
listeners as we usually do,
so more people
want something to say.
I don't know
what's happening here,
but it's amazing.
Well, we haven't hit 100 yet,
so I'm disappointed.
It doesn't take much
to redesign spaces, too,
public spaces.
Maybe if only three
people called in,
then I'd be at 90,
and that's a compromise.
That's a good
high mark.
Not called in,
but connected.
I don't know
how it works.
Yeah,
and that brought
the number down.
802-321-4225.
Yes, Alex,
looks like you have something.
No,
I was just hoping
for a phone call.
Okay.
That was just
my normal gesticulation.
You just look like
you had something to say,
but I guess...
No, no.
I'm just a vapid
void over here.
That's disappointing,
but...
Do we have another
phone call?
We'll allow it.
Yes, we do.
All right.
Good evening.
You're on
Off the Hook Overtime.
Go ahead.
Hi there.
Going to end the show
with Johnny Fusion.
Hey, how you doing?
Are you driving?
I'm doing...
What's that?
Sounds like you're driving.
I'm in a Lyft.
Okay, well,
then you're in a vehicle.
You're in a vehicle.
I got it right.
Yeah.
All right.
Yeah, I was...
It's like I was listening
to Off the Hook
and Overtime...
Well, not Overtime,
but Off the Hook
on the WBA website
using Stanford's Wi-Fi,
but Stanford blocks it
for some reason.
They block very safe
that, you know,
public Wi-Fi,
hospital,
and stuff,
but it was pretty easy
to get around
just by using a VPN.
Wait, Stanford is blocking
what now?
The live stream at WBAI.
They block WBAI?
That's kind of weird.
Is it because it's an applet,
like a little thing
on the main page?
Well, they blocked the stream,
not the website.
Oh, okay.
So you weren't doing it
from their main page.
You were just streaming
on, like, VLC or something?
I think he clicked on...
No, I stream on the web page,
but I have to use
the VPN to do it.
Okay, okay.
So maybe it didn't like
the country
or the VPN somehow?
I don't know if that's even possible.
No, I think you had it right
the first time.
I think when he clicks
on the applet
or whatever it's called
on the BAI website,
I think there's something
about that
that Stanford doesn't like,
but...
Like running it in...
It probably uses...
You know,
because there's other things,
like my...
Like,
checking life
would be blocked
and stuff,
you know?
Well, okay.
I don't know
what it's called.
Now that we've gotten
past all these barriers,
what's on your mind?
Oh, I just...
What a couple weeks
it's been, huh?
You could say that, yes.
Yeah.
It's crazy
what's happening
with Elon Musk
and these
young men
who are doing his bidding
in OPM
in the Treasury Department.
I just...
Yeah.
You know,
this is a federal network
and
it's supposed to have
all these protocols
and security clearances
and
you know,
basically to keep
unauthorized access
from this stuff
and then just plug right
into the Ethernet
or whatever.
Yeah.
You know,
there's another issue too
in that
these are
agencies...
Well,
let's look at USAID.
That is something
that Kennedy
basically came up with
and it was approved
by Congress
and somebody
just can't go in there
and obliterate it.
However,
that is exactly
what happened.
Maybe, Alex,
maybe you know
something more
about how it actually
is supposed to work,
but that's not right,
right?
I mean,
somebody can't just
go in
because...
I'm asking Alex,
that's because
somebody
decides they don't
like that organization.
They can't just
send somebody
from the private sector
in to obliterate it.
Does that seem reasonable?
No,
it doesn't.
It seems like
it would require
a more coordinated effort
of government
in order to do something
like this,
especially if it was created
by statute,
if it was created
by Congress,
it shouldn't be
up to some kind
of independent
government contract
to determine
whether or not
this program
continues
to exist.
the president
has a wide latitude
and great discretion
when it comes
to things
like the person
public policy,
but I don't think
that without
some kind
of process
and perhaps
going through
something like
the Administrative
Procedures Act,
you can just
dismantle
bits and bobs
of the federal
government like this.
it's really
something we've
never experienced
before,
so I don't
necessarily have
I think a really
cogent answer
to this.
I really only
have a gut feeling.
And that's what
I think they're
counting on
is people that
don't really know
for sure.
Right?
And the actors,
the unelected
agents
employing this
describing it,
Musk himself
saying that
USAID has been
put through
the wood chipper,
you know,
like a Fargo
reference.
Yeah.
Um,
and the
president himself
is basically
his,
his big
qualification for
this is that
he basically
reckons that
this is probably
all right or
not going to be
a big deal.
He was asked
directly,
doesn't this have
to go through
Congress?
And he's like,
no,
I don't,
I don't think
so.
But he doesn't
know.
Nobody seems
to know because
no one ever
thought something
like this could
happen.
And that's what
you get when
everyone has
such fealty to
him that they
won't challenge
anything.
Oh,
no one's going
to,
yeah,
up until
this point,
let's say
that,
you know,
people change,
hopefully,
but up until
now,
that's exactly
the kind of
thing that his
loyalty
expectations have
demanded,
and you then
get no pushback
and these
things don't
make sense.
I almost wish
I had spent
my life,
you know,
bending the
knee to
Trump and
becoming one
of his trusted
advisors just
so that I
could one day
be in front
of a camera
and say,
are you out
of your
goddamn mind?
You can't
do that.
You must be
crazy, you
know,
just for that
one moment.
And I think
there are people
out there now
that have
sacrificed their
entire lives
to this idiot.
this is your
opportunity to,
you know,
save yourself
in history
as somebody
who actually
stood up to him.
Of course,
you know,
he'll make your
life hell after
that,
but still,
I think that
rush,
that feeling
will be worth
it.
Go ahead,
Gila.
Okay,
so I just
found an
amazing piece
of information
that I wanted
to share
because it's
too cool
not to.
So,
Representative
Mark
Pocan
from
Washington
State
introduced
a bill
today
into
the House
entitled
The Eliminate
Looting of
Our Nation
by Mitigating
Unethical
State
Kleptocracy.
That spells
Elon Musk,
doesn't it?
It sure does.
I love it.
I love it.
But, you know,
the Patriot Act
spells something,
too.
They can't just
come up with words.
They have to
make them spell
things.
So,
the fact that
the Elon Musk
Act seeking
to ban
special government
employees from
obtaining federal
contracts.
Okay,
all right.
I just,
I like,
it's petty
and I kind
of love it.
It's one of
your people,
Kyle.
Move that
along.
Yeah,
I've been
getting surveys
and,
you know,
representative,
very active
inquiry from
politicians there
that are
seeking comment.
So,
definitely,
I'll be
contributing to
the discourse
there.
And I hope
everyone else
in the country
in every locality
is having
the same
kinds of
conversations,
challenging
as they
may be.
It's important
to talk about
it and to
make your
voice heard.
Johnny,
any final
words?
Yes,
it's important
to realize
that laws
don't prevent
anyone from
doing anything.
They just
offer a
remedy for
when they're
broken.
So,
even though
these actions
doge
and
Trump
are
blatantly
illegal,
the law
won't stop
anyone from
committing
crimes.
I mean,
as a former
blackhead actor,
I know that
very well.
You know,
I've done
illegal things,
that there was
a law
saying I
couldn't do
it.
It wasn't
a deterrent.
And these
people have
escaped
justice their
entire lives
because of
their wealth.
You know,
and Trump
even more
recently with
his so-called
sentencing
for his
felony,
he skated
by.
The law
can't stop
anything.
It can only
offer remedies.
And with
the courts
captured by
the right
wing how
it is now,
there's nothing
to stop
them.
Well,
there will
be.
There will
be.
And we're
going to
leave it
there.
Nothing in
the government.
We have to
have non-governmental
solutions.
Well,
it can be
arranged.
It can be
arranged.
Anyway,
thanks for
the call.
Get where
you're going
safely.
Good night,
everyone.
And we'll
talk to you
again in the
future.
Thank you.
All right.
And I guess
that's going to
be our last
call for
tonight.
Any closing
thoughts,
folks?
Go ahead,
Alex.
Sure.
There are,
a number
of lawsuits
that are
challenging
the legality
of the
actions of
this doge
in abolishing
certain aspects
of the federal
government.
And I do
think the gut
reaction here
is right
that the
president just
shouldn't be
able to do
that.
if you're
thinking about
very basic
civics in
terms of
the separation
of powers
of the
executive
branch,
legislative
branch,
and the
judicial
branch,
and Congress
is the
legislative
branch,
the executive
branch should
not be able
to repeal
or undo
anything that
Congress does
without Congress
repealing that
law or undoing
it themselves.
So I think
that the
doge's
actions in
dismantling
many aspects
of these
federal programs
that have been
created by law
are very likely
to face
significant
challenges
in courts,
and I think
some of these
actions will
probably be
overturned.
But we'll
see.
But Alex,
you know,
even if the
actions are
overturned,
the damage
is almost
unfensible.
There's definitely
damage.
I mean,
you know,
I know
archive.org
is grabbing
a lot of
the,
has grabbed
a lot of
the webpages
that have
been shut
down,
but,
you know,
a lot
hasn't been,
and a lot
of things
have been
changed
that,
you know,
won't be
easily
discoverable
as far as
what got
changed
and what
didn't.
And,
you know,
the very
real possibility
and certainty,
in fact,
that personal
data has been
compromised.
Lots of it,
maybe all of
it.
Maybe it's
on flash
drives,
maybe it's
on hard
drives and
other places.
All kinds
of systems
have been
plugged in
that shouldn't
have been
plugged in
because they
didn't go
through the
procedure that
is part of
how they run
things.
They thought
it was stupid,
so they just
bypassed it.
And they
intimidated
their way
into these
establishments.
And we
found out,
you know,
our institutions
are a lot
weaker than
we thought
they were.
So that's
kind of
sobering.
Gila,
did you have
something?
I did,
actually.
So first of all,
I want to say
we still have
75 people with
us right now,
which is insane.
But also we
just tooted
something on
the show's
Mastodon page,
which is
an opportunity
that if you
want to do
something right
now and you
want to do
something tangible,
there is a
repository on
GitHub that
will help you
contribute CPU
time to help
the Internet
Archive download
and archive
government pages
right now.
So if you
go to our
Mastodon page,
which is at
off the hook
at hackers.town,
you can find out
more about
participating in
that project.
You can also
go to
github
slash archive
team slash
us government
dash grab
and learn more
about this project
there as well.
Okay,
and we'll
hopefully get
that info
and send that
out over the
2600 social
media accounts
and hopefully
more people can
can spread the
word that way
as well,
because we
really do need
to we need
to support each
other.
You're muted
Gila.
If I could
point out one
other thing I
heard recently
from a very
smart person
that I know
self-care is
punk as
fuck.
And the thing
is, if we
burn out now,
we can't
accomplish anything
and there's a
fire hose of
shit right now
and if you
get overwhelmed
by the fire
hose of shit,
you can't
make change.
So make sure
you're taking
care of yourself
in addition to
taking care of
other people.
But if you can
grab the fire
hose at the
same time and
point it in a
different direction,
by all means,
go for it.
Exactly.
Yes, Alex.
As a
counterpoint,
I'm very often
bring up these
counterpoints.
I'd like to
quote the
Kurgan from
the original
Highlander.
It's better to
burn out than
to fade away.
But Neil Young
said that.
Maybe he
didn't.
Who didn't say
that?
A lot of
people say
that.
But, you
know, to
quote the
Beatles,
good night.
Yeah, that was
the last song
on the White
album.
We're done,
right?
Yeah.
Any final
thoughts, Kyle?
Mess with the
best, die like
the rest.
Oh, that's the
one.
That's the
one to go
out with.
Okay, everybody
please write to
us, OTH at
2600.com.
We'd love to
hear from you.
Yes, Kila.
Quick question,
what is our
format for next
week?
What does that
mean, our
format?
It means, are we
taking calls on
the show, or are
we doing overtime
next week?
Oh, I thought it
was like beta or
VHS.
Well, it depends
what the date is.
Do you know what
the date is?
Next week is the
12th.
That's mighty
close to the
middle of the
month, so maybe
we are taking
phone calls next
week, which means
there will be no
overtime next week.
Ooh, that's a
tough one.
That's a tough
one.
How about we
meet about that
and see?
So the way it
works, folks, once
a month we take
phone calls on the
radio show, but
taking phone calls
really wears us
out, so we don't
have the energy to
do overtime after
doing that.
Plus, it's pretty
much the same
format as overtime
except it's over
the air, but it's
shorter, and it
ends at 7.55, which
means that's it for
that week.
But if we don't
take phone calls
off the hook, then
we have overtime
where we do take
phone calls
afterwards, and
that can go, wow,
it went an hour and
a half tonight.
Sometimes it
costs longer,
sometimes it
doesn't.
So we'll tell you
by next week.
How about that?
That sounds great.
I was just curious.
All right, meetings
again this Friday,
2600 meetings.
Hopefully some
Canadian 2600
meetings will start
being born.
That would be
great.
And, yeah, try
to find that copy
of 2600 at your
local bookstore
before they're all
gone, because the
Elon cover apparently
is quite popular.
Who knew?
All right, good
night, everybody.
We're going to look
for it in a couple
weeks.
See you next week.