This type of call is restricted from this line.
If you have any questions, please contact your GTE business office.
Please hang up now.
Thank you.
And we have Alex.
You do. Hello from London.
And this is a one of those special call in programs where once a month we take calls from our listeners here at WBAI.
We will not be doing overtime tonight.
And we also ask that those people who have called overtime in recent weeks not be the people who call the show tonight so that people who listen to 99.5 FM in New York City have a chance to call us.
We'll give out the phone number in just a moment or two.
But first, a few stories to share with you.
I don't know if it's just me, but lately I've been sort of getting the feeling that massive corporations, you know, the really big ones, billions and billions, sometimes even trillions in net worth, that they're somehow - I know it's paranoid.
I know it's crazy, but somehow they're evil.
You know, somehow they're turning evil.
Yeah.
And stories like this don't help.
You have an Amazon Echo.
A lot of people do.
A lot of our listeners do.
Well, you've long had the option for your device to process requests locally.
And that's a great feature because that way you keep your voice and your information off of Amazon's servers.
And it's so cool of Amazon to think of our concerns, our privacy issues, our distaste to sending our private information of any sort to Amazon's massive servers.
So that feature is a good feature that will be going away on March 28th.
That's right.
You might have gotten an email from Amazon saying we are reaching out to let you know that the Alexa feature do not send voice recordings that you enabled on your supported Echo devices will no longer be available beginning March 28th, 2025.
As we continue to expand Alexa's capabilities with generative AI features that rely on the processing power of Amazon's secure cloud, we have decided to no longer support this feature.
Please accept this big middle finger on our behalf.
Thank you for your blind patronage.
Might have embellished a bit there.
Now, the changes don't stop there.
According to this Ars Technica article, users who have the don't save recordings feature enabled will also lose access to voice ID,
which is a feature that allows Alexa to share user-specific things like calendar events, music preferences, and more.
In order to keep that functionality, users will have to manually change that setting as well.
In short, everything you say to your Echo devices after March 28th will be sent to Amazon's cloud, and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it.
Now, if users continue to make Amazon delete recordings, they will also lose access to features their devices had by default when they were purchased.
Now, Amazon tries to reassure all of us by saying that Alexa voice requests are always encrypted in transit to Amazon's secure cloud,
which was designed with layers of security protections to keep customer information safe.
Yeah, but, you know, that's not our concern.
Our concern is not the security of the data that you now insist on copying over to your secure cloud.
It's what you do with it afterwards.
It's you having possession of that and being able to do whatever you please with that.
So, yeah, a bit of some bad news here as far as Amazon Alexa devices are concerned.
Any thoughts?
Yeah, sure.
I'll jump in here.
And I think it's particularly disingenuous for Amazon to bring up the fact that the data is going to be encrypted in transit,
because if you're an ordinary person, you're not familiar with technology,
and you see this reassurance that your data is going to be secure in transit, you might think everything's going to be okay.
These are words that ordinary consumers want to hear to feel reassured that their data is secure.
But encrypting the data in transit means absolutely nothing.
It just means that there's a secure connection between the device and wherever the data is going.
And I think you're exactly right, Emmanuel, that the main issue here is what's happening with that data after the fact.
What is Amazon going to be doing with it?
How long are they going to be retaining this data?
Are they going to be mining it?
Are they going to be storing it?
Is that data that is going to be recorded from your Amazon Echo device going to be subject perhaps to legal process?
Maybe that data can be subpoenaed from Amazon with respect to what was happening in your particular home on any particular day.
None of that is addressed by any of the words that you had read on the air or any of the embellishments that you added to that particular statement.
So I find it particularly troublesome that they mention this security of data in transit bit while ignoring the rest of the issues.
I'm kind of with that.
I've maybe become a little complacent, as others have, although it's silly in this case because it's mainly about using your voice.
But for the privacy, I'd say, of what I'm actually talking to these devices about, not that it's that interesting, but if I ask questions or if I want to know something, I don't want to necessarily have that up for sale.
And in the past, I think the attitude of like, well, none of these commercial products, none of these services have your best interests in mind and really give a damn about anything of yours, other than how much they can profit off of you in return for their, quote, free offerings.
That complacency is something I'm thinking I'm just reverting back to what we've always said here on the radio program and what I think hackers and privacy advocates have meant for many, many years since early suspicions about surveillance capitalism and capabilities writ large, which is that really nothing is safe.
And however fun it has been to try these things out, that may have been a reason to be a little bit more complacent just to get a sense of like what everybody else is doing or like try to, you know, benefit from some of the advances in voice recognition.
It's great, but if this is just wholesale going to be scooped up, I think a lot of people might want to be reconsidering their use of this or embracing things that I know Rob has spoken about, which are alternatives to these commercial versions.
There are many capable devices out there that don't necessarily have the connection to a very large company, as you pointed out in the beginning of your story.
And hopefully they won't get bought out by one of those large companies, so we'll just have to see.
And of course, as we learn of more of them, we will talk about them as well, maybe test them out.
And or the functional like library side of it or however the guts of it has worked, maybe that will become more prevalent that we can all integrate those things into every little controller and microprocessor or a project or groups.
of machines in our home automation or smart home applications that are a little bit more closed because the processing power and the capability is advanced so much that we don't necessarily need the big back end that these these companies are offering.
OK, moving on.
Do we know any any NASA engineers or former NASA engineers?
No, we should.
We should.
They're cool people.
They always get involved in some of the most interesting projects.
And this former NASA engineer by the name of Mark Rober did one of the coolest things I have ever heard of.
He set up a really interesting self-driving test, and he did it by imitating Looney Tunes.
Now, I don't know if you guys follow Looney Tunes.
I happen to follow it religiously.
And there's a particular character named Wile E. Coyote.
And at one point, he's trying to catch this roadrunner.
He paints a tunnel onto a wall to fool the roadrunner.
I won't spoil it by telling you how it turns out.
Now, according to this article from FuelArc.com, written by Kay Ledfoot, and I'm beginning to think that's a fake name.
OK, whatever.
According to that article, Mr. Arober set up basically the same thing by having a painting of a, I believe it was a road.
Well, basically, he had two different cars.
A Lexus equipped with Luminar's LiDAR-based autonomous technology and a Tesla, a Tesla Model Y.
And the LiDAR-equipped Lexus correctly identified a child-sized mannequin through dense fog and a torrential downpour.
That was some other test.
The Tesla ran over the mannequin.
But the wide-open highway had a picture of a, actually, basically, there's a wide-open highway and a picture of a wide-open highway on a billboard.
Not on a rock, but on a billboard in the middle of the road.
Well, it's a well-known issue.
Um, simulated data has, uh, has, has been out there, uh, and now there's a real-world test.
A commercially available self-driving Tesla basically mistook the image of the road for an actual, a road that you can navigate on and crashed into it at full speed.
Now, the timing of this, and there's a video, too, on YouTube.
Uh, the timing of this couldn't be worse for Tesla just a few months from now.
Uh, the company plans to launch its first unsupervised robo-taxi program in Austin, Texas.
And my, my prayers go out to Austin, Texas.
Um, yeah, um, Elon Musk says,
We're going to be launching unsupervised full self-driving as a paid service in Austin in June.
I talked to the team.
We feel confident in being able to do an initial launch of unsupervised, no one in the car, full self-driving in Austin in June.
Yeah, um, oh, just remember, they're a crappy software company.
They don't make cars.
Well, I think we're about to find out how, how crappy they are.
Full speed into, uh, into, into a, um, picture of a highway and running over a mannequin.
Not exactly, uh, not exactly the best, uh, image, I think.
But, you know, it takes a former NASA engineer to prove this and to show it on YouTube.
And I'm, I'm glad these tests are being, being run.
Go ahead, Rob.
Yeah, the video of this.
And, uh, you know, I, I highly recommend folks check it out.
You can find this channel on YouTube.
His name is Mark Rober, R-O-B-E-R.
And the name of the video is Can You Fool a Self-Driving Car?
And there is actually a great deal of testing he does on these cars.
And the video is spectacular.
Um, it shows these cars crashing into the, uh, a mannequin of a child when it's raining and the, the car's cameras can't see the rain or understand that there's a human-shaped thing there.
And, yes, bashing through a brick wall, which he, uh, which he rigged up while he's in this car.
Um, the, the wall is actually made of, uh, breakable stuff that doesn't harm this man while he's in his car, while he's in this car hurtling toward a wall.
But it is a wall.
And, uh, the computers don't yet know better.
And I, I would, I was highly dubious about the whole self-driving cars thing before I saw this video.
And afterward, I, I feel like, uh, I have not revised that assessment.
All right.
Uh, Kyle, go ahead.
You're good, sir.
Oh, I've never, I've, uh, never experienced a ride in one of these cars.
But the more I hear about them, the less, uh, interested in the more, um, resolute I am about not ever doing that.
Well, you know, if you change your mind, I might be able to help you out here.
Because, um, what happened fairly recently, uh, is that, um, uh, every Tesla owner in the U.S. has been doxxed.
That's right.
There are names, addresses, phone numbers, uh, a massive cyber attack.
Um, yeah, and it's, it's, it's worth getting alarmed over.
You know, if you own one of these cars, now your name is out there.
Uh, there's an interactive map tied to the DogeQuest website.
Um, and, um, there's been sharp market value drops for Tesla.
Now, of course, Elon Musk has condemned the act as domestic terrorism.
I'm not sure, um, simply having data, a compromise of data like this qualifies as domestic terrorism.
It could lead to domestic terrorism, I suppose.
But it's, um, it's poor security is what I would call it, uh, on, on behalf of whoever was keeping this, um, this information secure or not keeping this information secure, which I imagine is Tesla.
Um, so, yeah, uh, they're already calling for prosecution of, of hackers when nobody seems to have really done anything with this information yet.
And, of course, it's certainly, if it's out there where everybody can look at it, then that's certainly possible.
Um, with a, um, terrifying symbol, according to this news story, the hackers responsible for the breach who oppose Elon Musk have shared an interactive map containing the owner's names, addresses, and contact information.
I don't know what the, um, terrifying symbol is.
They don't say what the terrifying symbol is.
Does anybody have the list?
No?
The map?
Uh, okay.
Oh, uh, it's a Molotov cocktail symbol.
That's what it is.
I didn't know that was a symbol.
Um, okay.
I think your cursor gets replaced with, uh, what looks like a bottle.
And the residence of FBI director, Kash Patel, uh, is also listed.
Well, he's a Tesla owner.
Of course he is.
Uh, operators of the website stated that in the midst of a nationwide boycott of the automaker, they will only delete identifying information about Tesla drivers who can show proof that they sold their electric car.
Uh, that's as quoted in a report by the Daily Mail.
Um, yeah, you know, like I said last week, the people driving these cars, they're not necessarily Nazis or evil people or anyone other than innocent victims caught up in this who thought they were doing the right thing.
So by no means should they be targeted.
Um, it's, it's, you know, it's just, um, it's, it's not a good look.
I think anybody can realize that.
However, um, the continued existence of Tesla showrooms serve as a reminder of the cancer that is in our government right now.
And that is affecting many tens of thousands of, of employees of the federal government, as well as the rest of us down the line, uh, who have to suffer because of some idiot who thinks they know what they're doing.
And, um, you know, symbols get attacked.
And I totally understand that.
The important thing is that innocent people not get hurt and that, um, uh, we, we, we channel our anger in the appropriate ways.
And there are certainly a lot of places to channel that anger.
And I hope people do that.
I hope people realize that, uh, their voices matter, their actions matter, but let's, uh, let's be intelligent about it.
Anyway, I guess, go ahead, Rob.
Yeah, if, uh, I'm, I'm not a fan of people getting doxed, um, who have nothing to do with anything.
I'm not a fan of all these people's information being put out there because, yeah, not everybody who owns a Tesla is, uh, you know, by extension, a bad person who deserves bad things to happen to them.
But if we are to agree that their information being leaked out there is domestic terrorism, what does it mean when he gave everyone in America's information to a bunch of unelected, nonprofessional people, uh, in an organization called Doge?
That seems like, that seems like a much huger act of terrorism than if we're, if we're calling these things terrorism.
Yeah, I was going to say the term, uh, is apt for Elon Musk himself and the Doge, uh, cruise actions to me, they, and many others, I'd say it is, uh, domestic terrorism writ large.
And I agree, I think, like, individuals, uh, aren't necessarily, I, I don't know that this is, affects that much by creating, um, a site like this.
And unless, unless I have, unless there's evidence or a story otherwise of, like, the source of this, how do we know this isn't, like, provocateur action to make it look even more egregious, the, the sorts of, uh, attacks that have been taking place?
I do think actions at the dealerships, like you said, are totally valid.
If you don't like a particular, uh, store or corporation or, uh, a retailer, you absolutely should have, uh, uh, the ability to stand on, uh, public, public, uh, uh, roads and, and, uh, uh, streets, you know, side of the road or wherever, um, it is, uh, legal to just make your, make your grievances known.
And, and, uh, but, but the site itself, yeah, it seems like it's a little bit too much because what, what are, what is the implication, especially with the cursor and all that?
Like, it's great, it's kind of, um, cheeky and, and, uh, daring, but is it really setting up something that is, um, something we can get behind as a response to the actions of the Doge and, uh, the private, uh, individual, uh, oligarch that's, that's, uh, kind of teaming up with this administration?
Because, like you said, it's just, it's just beckoning actions against individuals who are, are essentially caught up in having tried to, um, wean themselves off benzene.
But, you know, it's, um, um, like you said, it could be a provocateur act where somebody within Tesla is, is leaking this and making it seem like, uh, other people, uh, did this.
Although they want to make it look bad.
Yeah.
I think, I think their security is bad enough where this is quite possible, quite, quite real.
Um, and, and, you know, I don't have a problem with that, with demonstrating this, just like I've never had a problem with leaks happening in the past or data breaches showing just how shoddy the security is in the first place.
I do have a problem with people, uh, using that information for identity theft or for intimidation or anything like that.
But this gives Tesla a black eye and I got to approve of that.
You know, just that one action hurts them.
Um, and, you know, again, uh, intimidating, innocent people that just happened to buy the wrong thing.
You know, it could have been, that could have been one of us.
We love technology.
We, we, we love the newest toys and, um, we're big fans of all kinds of things that are, um, uh, new developments.
So when something like this happens, we have to try and understand that, um, uh, the people who have taken a step further into that technology probably have a lot in common with us.
So they are not the enemy by any stretch.
I, I, I hope we can all realize that the real problem here is what's going on at Tesla and, um, uh, take steps to, um, uh, to, to fix that or replace it with something else in a way that is, that is just, uh, before Alex, uh, gives his opinion here, I want to just give out the phone number for those people listening.
And again, if you have called, uh, over time, please don't call this show because this is for the, um, the people listening to the radio right now.
And the phone number is not the usual phone number of WBAI because we are doing this remotely.
Uh, it's a different area code.
Uh, and unless you still pay long distance charges, uh, from one part of the Northeast to another, uh, you don't have anything to worry about.
Although we do have a toll free number, which we will also give out, but the phone number to call, 802-321-4225.
That's 802-321-HACK.
Uh, we can only take one call at a time.
So, uh, when somebody calls and someone else calls after that, they wind up in voicemail purgatory and I'll have to call back.
Uh, does anyone have the toll free number handy?
Really?
No, I do.
You do.
Okay.
Kyle does.
802-321-42225.
That's the number I just gave out.
Wise guy.
All right.
Well, we'll dig that up.
We'll dig.
Aguila, do you have it?
Aguila, you're muted.
Never mind.
I thought we had it.
We don't have it.
We don't have our own number?
You had it when you were muted.
You were saying something and as soon as you were unmuted, you said, I don't have it.
Well, Rob, there we go.
833-755-2600.
This is just a show to drive me crazy, isn't it?
Okay, 833-755-2600.
Go ahead, Alex, with your opinion.
Okay, I'll be really brief because I would really love to get to the calls here, but I
think part of what's going on here with the data breach with respect to Tesla is a little
bit of lawfare.
People think that the damage is done once the data is out there, but the damage is really
just beginning there.
You have to think about what happens to a company when there's a data breach like this.
You have to look at all of the personally identifiable information that's part of that
breach.
You have to analyze that data from the perspective of every single state's data breach notification
laws.
You have to look at this as GDPR compliance burdens.
This is lawfare.
Once that data is out there, this creates a massive compliance obligation on the part of
Tesla.
Tesla, they're going to have to provide credit monitoring and other data breach notification
types of alerts to these consumers that have been affected by this.
This becomes like a really longstanding problem that is going to erode and affect the bottom
line of Tesla for some time to come.
Over to you, and hopefully we can take some calls soon.
Yes, we have a phone call, right?
Yeah, they're waiting.
Okay.
Here is our first phone call, and please, people, keep it short.
We only have about 25 minutes, and we'd like to process as many calls as possible.
Good evening.
You are on Off the Hook.
Go ahead.
It's our namesake.
Yeah, nice, nice one.
All right, good warm up.
8-0-2-3-2-1-4-2-2-5.
And because we can only take one phone call at a time, we can't just go to the next line.
We have to wait for somebody to call fresh, and a lot of people probably wind up in that
voicemail purgatory and have to hang up and call again.
So, 8-0-2-3-2-1-4-2-2-5, 8-3-3-7-5-5-2-6-0-0, either one.
And get a real car.
Get a what?
Get a real car.
If you're going to buy a car, get a real car.
Buy one from a manufacturer that makes cars.
Yeah.
Or get a bicycle.
It's springtime.
Go ahead, Gaila.
I mean, I think there is something to be said for the idea that if you still want to go
purchase a Tesla, you need to go say that with your whole chest and do it in public and be
like, yeah, I'm going to buy a Tesla.
I think that in March of 2025, this is a great choice for the entire world.
But I also think in terms of the domestic terrorism nomenclature getting tossed around
is something that I think a lot of people have said for a long time.
But when you hear every accusation is an admission, that's what they're doing.
Okay.
We have a phone call.
Good evening.
You're on off the hook.
Go ahead.
Oh, come on.
Really?
We don't have to take phone calls or people are going to be jerks.
Look, it only takes one or two people to ruin it for everybody.
So 802-321-4225.
If you want to call us and you're listening to the radio right now, this is, we only do this
once a month.
Extra points for your reorder.
The first time we did this, we had so many calls.
It jammed up our switchboard.
802-321-4225.
I'm only going to give out the one phone number because I think I might be confusing people
by giving out more than that.
You got to say it slowly.
802.
Now I can't remember the number.
321-4225.
You only remember if you say it fast.
I have a pace, Kyle.
I appreciate that.
We do have a call now.
Good evening.
You're on off the hook.
Go ahead.
Hi there.
You do know that the Tesla vehicles are the most 100% created in America.
All the parts, everything, the batteries, the machines, the design are all made in America,
right?
Okay, but that doesn't really make it good.
It just means that, okay, we're not importing things that we want to boycott.
Okay, well, you know that if you buy anything else, like an electric Jeep, which is owned
by Stellantis, which is a foreign company, it's a foreign company, right?
Big deal.
So it's a foreign company.
We buy foreign things all the time.
Now, there's tariffs on foreign companies.
I know that.
It's, you know.
Right.
We don't have to buy things from foreign companies.
We can buy things from Americans, and so that we Americans can have jobs and then work
in America and then pay American taxes, right?
Sure, in theory, yeah.
I'm sure it works great.
No, no, it's not a theory.
It's actual facts.
If I work in America and then I am a member of the American citizenry, that I can pay taxes
here and, you know, if I'm a designer of the machines that make the cars or mine the ore,
that 80% of everything...
Okay, yeah.
What is your point?
Because we only have a minute to discuss this.
We can't debate the whole thing.
And then what?
Okay, I understand you hate Elon for no reason.
For no reason?
Are you paying attention?
You want to set his cars on fire.
No, I didn't say that.
I didn't say I want to set his cars on fire.
I say I understand when I see cars burning.
I understand that.
You are interrupting me, making a point.
First of all, you've called overtime, have you not?
I've called several times.
I'm saying...
Not just overtime.
Yeah, okay.
But we ask people specifically, if you've called overtime, please don't call this show.
So we give people who listen to WBAI during this hour a chance.
So let's move on to the next call because we only have about 20 minutes.
802-321-4225.
We really don't have time to get into big debates and arguments about this kind of thing.
We're not going to solve that.
That's not what we do here.
Go ahead, Alex.
Yeah, I mean, to set the record straight here, I mean, Tesla vehicles do contain a lot of parts that are sourced from the United States,
but they also include parts that are sourced from other countries, including China.
So it's not like they are entirely made with a supply chain that entirely consists of American-made products.
Like almost anything complicated in this world, the supply chain is global.
There are still things that come from our foreign adversaries, including China.
Okay, go ahead, Rob.
And while we're talking about Tesla being an American company, it's a multinational.
It's owned by Elon Musk, who has, in addition to American citizenship, which is fairly recent, he also has Canadian and South African citizenship.
And, you know, if we're talking about who's paying taxes, I would like a look at Elon's taxes before I pass a judgment on that.
Yeah, good luck.
Okay, move on to the next call.
And good evening.
You are on off the hook.
Go ahead.
Speak up.
Hi, I'm able to talk to the, on the station?
Yes, you're on the air right now.
How are you?
I just have a question for you guys.
A month ago or two months ago, before Trump took office, you guys were the ones that were praising all the electric cars and all the electric vehicles.
And now suddenly, when someone in the Trump administration and is doing something right with this country, you all of a sudden wake up and are all anti.
And that's all I'm going to say.
Have an amazing night.
Bye.
Is there an answer to that?
What's going on?
BII listeners, are you out there?
Is it just all right-wing people tonight?
I don't get it.
What's going on in the radio waves in New York?
Go ahead, Alex.
I don't ever recall us praising electric vehicles.
I mean, I don't know.
Maybe these shows that I wasn't on or something.
Because I've never praised an electric vehicle.
I don't like electric vehicles.
I've praised the idea of electric vehicles, but I would never get in one.
I think they're dangerous.
They go on fire.
They burn good.
I like gears.
Yeah, and they're heavy.
There's all kinds of problems.
And the self-driving things, I never praised that.
That's for sure.
I like bicycles.
What's that, Alex?
I don't like it.
Go ahead, Kyle.
Yes.
No, Alex, go ahead.
Okay, I'll go.
I'll say, look, I think the self-driving thing that we had addressed earlier,
and I want to take some more calls, is crazy to me.
The idea that you get into a car that's self-driving.
Anybody who's ever programmed any kind of software knows that all these variables
exist outside that cannot be accounted for.
It's terrifying to me that software will be driving this particular car with me in it.
I can have physical ramifications to my person.
That's crazy.
Also, I like gears.
I like shifting gears.
I drive a car with a manual transmission and a diesel engine.
I can't stand electric vehicles.
Wow.
You're reading my lines.
Damn it.
I do the same thing.
Kyle does the same thing.
We're the exception, aren't we?
Driving manual transmission with diesel engines and enjoying doing it ourselves.
That's real, Mary.
Show of hands.
Who has been in a self-driving car?
Anyone?
None of us?
Wow.
Okay, good.
Let's keep that up.
Gila, did you have something?
I really want to take this next call.
Go ahead.
No, I take the call.
It's fine.
I mean, I haven't owned a car in 15 years.
That's all.
Okay.
And let's take this call.
Good evening.
You're on Off the Hook.
Go ahead.
Hey, I also have a manual transmission for whatever it's worth.
We should start a club.
I'm down.
Okay, so I have a quick question, then I'll jump off.
Okay.
I'm curious to know if anyone has heard of Tesla Solar customers successfully breaking
their leases in light of recent events.
I've looked into it in the past, and apparently it's a very difficult thing to do.
Tesla Solar?
That's all.
Yeah, these are like batteries that you...
Go ahead, caller.
They're like in your garage.
You fit to your wall or something?
So that is one aspect of the system.
I don't have the power wall.
I just have the panels.
They were SolarCity panels, and SolarCity was acquired by Tesla six or so years ago,
but I'm stuck with the lease.
There's my baby, so I'm going to jump off.
Okay.
Thank you.
Have a good night.
Thanks for your call.
That's our first friendly call of the night.
Let's hope there's more.
802-321-4225.
Go ahead, Kyle.
Yeah, we'd love to learn more.
I don't know what the terms...
I would ask what the terms of the lease are, like how many years, but I guess it's the
cost of the installation plus the panels themselves.
Alex...
Maybe it's a five or ten year term.
Alex, you're a lawyer.
Can you get out of a lease due to encroaching fascism?
Is that like something that is normal?
Well, maybe if there's some kind of morality clause, that would be part of the contract.
That would be something to negotiate ahead of time.
Again, you know, as we said at the beginning of the show, we love the technology, and you
know, not all the technology, obviously, and every bit of technology has its flaws, but
there are so many companies now that Elon Musk has got his hands in, kind of a parallel
to Trump.
They all need to be targeted.
If we are that displeased with what he is doing to this country, they all need to feel
our wrath in one way or another.
And that includes canceling whatever leases or contracts or any kind of commitment we
have made with them because the terms have changed.
And this has become something very unpalatable to many of us.
So what I suggest is, you know, unite with people who are in the same boat, have the same
kind of subscriptions, and start getting publicity, and let's put the pressure on so that you
don't have to keep paying this guy one way or another.
And, you know, I think we'll start to see the power of what people can do if we just start
raising our voices a bit.
We have another call?
Good evening.
You're on Off The Hood.
Go ahead.
Hi, Jeff from Long Island, Strong Island.
Hey, how you doing?
Okay, just want to say something about those vehicles.
Go ahead.
I would be afraid to be in front of their vehicles because their brake systems have failed, from
my understanding.
And I can tell you, as a firefighter, as an expertise, the lithium batteries, when they
catch fire, you can't put them out with regular water.
You just have to let it burn.
And even because there's like a thousand cells in each of those batteries, each cell blows,
each cell blows and blows and blows.
Wow.
Until they find new technology, it's fine.
But you have to understand.
And I would never buy from Tesla anyway or these electric vehicles because, guess what?
If the battery goes, the cost of the battery is about the cost of what a car is worth, about
$30,000.
Very good point.
And people don't buy things.
They buy things secondhand, batteries, not UL certified or UV certified, whatever it's
called.
And some of those certifications are not real certifications.
And, you know, like I said, the best way to do it, you don't buy from them.
And you shut it down.
Can I ask you something?
As a fireman, you must have come across this where it's an electric vehicle that's burning.
How do you tell, first of all, what kind of a fire it is and if it's not going to be put
out with just regular water?
Well, we know.
Well, we have a design on our phones.
On our phones, it's called, I'll tell you right now, it's called EVR, EV Rescue.
And you scan the code of the car and it will tell you what type of battery it is.
But the problem, you know, a lot of people have those installed.
But the problem with these, the problem is you can't, just when you go to the scene.
Thankfully, we never encountered that.
And not to mention the storage with all these electric vehicles.
You know, you put it in someone's house, oh, forget it.
The house will burn down.
I've seen, I have witnessed a fire once before where they had those type of batteries and
it destroyed a brand, like a mansion that wasn't even 20 years old.
Wow.
The whole house was completely destroyed because of the battery storage in the garage.
So this is a car that just erupted overnight?
It could.
You know, if they get hot, you wouldn't know if the wires get hot.
You wouldn't know if the battery itself gets hot.
You know, you can't.
And we, you know, you take a seminar, seminar training.
And even the trainers at the time were not sure how to deal with these type of fires if they erupt.
So pretty much you've got to try to isolate it and let it burn.
Let it burn.
This is the same kind of problem that we see with electric bikes, right?
E-bikes, e-scooters.
I mean, if you're a landlord or if you have anybody in your family with those type of bikes,
you should prohibit it on your lease terms not to allow those type of vehicles near your house or in the garage or anywhere.
It should be in the street.
Yeah, we hear reports of apartment fires in New York City and all kinds of other scary issues that people just don't see coming.
Do you have something, Kyle?
Yeah, I would just say the caller's got a great point with safety, with regard to safety,
and that I think this is an extension of the idea of a monopolistic tendency with this industry
where only one type of energy storage is kind of decided upon.
And the competition factor, the fact that everybody has one type of car if they want to do this,
it relies on that particular type of storage that's been selected,
and it makes it a little bit harder for new entrants with novel types,
like I don't know about other sources like sodium or other batteries, how they would fare.
But without that competition, you're not going to get as much innovation in the time frame that you would expect without it.
Yeah, and not to mention the storage of used lithium batteries.
You can't store them anywhere because they could catch fire again.
And they're a lot worse, much worse than fossil fuels in some ways.
I don't like fossil fuels.
I'm not advocating for fossil fuels.
But what we need to do, I guess Eisenhower did it, he invested in science during his administration.
Wow, imagine that.
Maybe we need to invest in science and invest in engineers and physics and engineering
so we can design some of the batteries that are not toxic or unsafe.
It's that, you know, make it environmentally safe or something, you know.
Yeah, no, I hear you.
It has a very bad, when it catches fire, oh man, it pollutes the air.
It has a bad smell.
All right, well thank you so much for shedding light on all this and for sharing your experiences.
And again, thank you for your service too because what would we do without folks like you?
So, yeah.
And I'm a leftist too.
You're a leftist, guys.
I'm a leftist.
I'm a blue-collar populist leftist, you know.
There are a lot of people out there like that.
Yeah, you know, right.
Okay.
All right, well thanks for listening.
Thanks for calling.
Goodbye.
Take care.
Yeah, that's right.
Leftist firefighter, they're out there.
802-321-4225.
Alex, did you have something?
It's really interesting, the types of batteries that this came from.
A lot of the, I mean, a lot of people with laptops and cell phones were very familiar with the same battery technology.
So, it scales up for scooters and e-bikes and stuff.
And then even larger, these cells like he talked about, these massive cells.
And a car is more apt to be damaged on the road.
Like, just the incidence of hitting objects or things damaging one or the other cell.
And as the caller indicated, you might get home and how would you know that something might have ruptured or something is leaking and then heats up when you plug it in to charge it and then causes a cascading effect.
And then wherever you parked it becomes susceptible to this really hard to extinguish fire.
But I would maintain, I mean, that there should be a wide variety of types of these things and they should be well understood.
And that's why I think, like, the blind loyalty to just being captivated by the idea and the branding of something, we should, you know, want to know how things work.
And it shouldn't take automobile fires to see, you know, how they're made.
Right, right.
Blind allegiance is a bad thing, as is blind defiance.
Well, blind not accepting of new technology, too, can also be bad.
I think this is a technology that just, it's not quite there yet.
And I think the fires are proving that.
Okay, let's take this next call.
802-321-4225, in case you want to, we don't have a call?
Yeah, 802-321-4225, I believe is the number you were giving out.
Yes, it was.
Okay, I thought we had a call.
I'm sorry.
The lines are open.
The lines are open, but we only have a few minutes left.
And we know there's a lot of people out there that want to share their thoughts, opinions, ask questions.
You're listening to Off the Hook.
We can be reached, O-T-H, at 2600.com.
And, yes, don't be afraid by the 802 area code.
It's in Vermont, but it's not really in Vermont.
It's just a phone number.
They used to mean something.
They don't really anymore.
Good evening.
You're on Off the Hook.
Go ahead.
How does somebody call us with a busy signal?
That is what a busy signal sounds like, by the way.
There's a lot of busy people.
I guess so.
Too busy.
Within the listening area here.
All right.
Go ahead, Gail.
I actually got a busy signal on the phone today.
I was making a phone call.
I needed to get clarification from a vendor.
And it was busy.
And I just stared at the phone because it's been so long since I called someone and got a busy signal.
I didn't quite know where to go with myself.
Well, apparently on signal, you can get a busy signal if somebody is talking on the phone and you call them.
Today I learned.
Yeah.
Any calls?
No calls?
Um, right now.
Okay.
802-321-4225.
If you get voicemail, hang up and call again because we can only take one call at a time.
It slows things down, I know.
Good evening.
You're on Off the Hook.
Hello.
Um, I'm curious.
Or, I guess I more like challenge you.
It's a depressing world out there.
Is there any chance we could get, like, one upbeat story to lift us up a week?
I mean, I'm against Trump, too.
But hearing it all day long, it's depressing.
You know what I mean?
I understand it completely.
Yes, we all are struggling with this right now.
You are so right.
You are so incredibly right.
Okay, let's try to think aside.
Rob, you have a positive story?
Well, it's not really news as such, but it's just an occasion of the day.
Today, March 19th, in the year 1928, Patrick McGowan was born.
So he would be 97 today if he were still with us, but Patrick McGowan...
Then he died, so that's depressing.
Now you're just making me think of number six no longer being on this earth.
And that was a great show.
And come on, Rob, do better than that.
But before he died, he shared with us a great work of art, which is The Prisoner.
I saw a YouTube video yesterday where pets were imitating their owners.
You know, people walking around on crutches, and then the dog was sort of hopping on three feet behind them.
And for no reason, because they had four perfectly good feet.
So I don't know if that qualifies.
That's not really news.
That's something.
That gives me a little hope here.
Yeah.
It's a depressing topic.
I mean, hacking, I know it's not always the best, but...
No, but, you know, you raise a very good point because happy people get more done than depressed people.
So if you're constantly being buried by bad news and by trends or whatever, you're not going to feel motivated to change that.
Whereas if you feel that you basically are on the right side, that you're smarter and better than your opponents, you're more likely to come up with something clever to further enrage them.
You know, I was talking about this earlier today when we did the thing with the Doge email addresses that pissed them off so much that they froze our Twitter account for daring to share that information of public employees.
That felt good.
You know, they were threatening us, but it felt good.
That is more.
That's what I'm talking.
I guess I didn't put that together.
The negative seems to help out the positive, but you're right.
I got to look at it in a different way.
No, we all do.
We all do.
But just know you're not alone.
We're all struggling with these things on a daily basis.
But we have to take a step back sometimes and say, are we doing this the best way we can?
Or can we maybe just, you know, take some time off and do something different?
Go ahead, Alex.
I've got some great news for people.
I can't wait to share this with you.
And it has to do with the number 21.
It's a lucky number.
It's going to make the caller feel better?
I think it will make the caller feel better.
I hope so.
Especially if he's a long-term listener to this program and he knows about Virgil Griffith, our friend Virgil, who's been in federal prison for quite a number of years.
Because it is 21 days from April 9th.
And April 9th is the date that he is going to be released from federal prison in Milan, Michigan, and come home to Baltimore, Maryland, where he'll be in a halfway house.
So that's some good news.
That is great news.
Great news.
Thank you for sharing that.
21 days until Virgil comes out.
And thank you, caller, for getting us to think a bit more cheerily.
Yes, that's fantastic news.
I didn't know that's coming up already.
Yeah, it's coming up.
21 days.
21 days.
That's coming up because we won a motion against the Department of Justice to have his sentence reduced.
We took a little bit over 10% off of his sentence by fighting that fight.
It was an uphill battle.
We won it.
So this is all good news.
21 days from now, Virgil will be coming home.
All right, caller, thank you so much.
You have to get him on the radio.
Yes, we will.
We will.
Thank you for your call.
Have a great day.
You too.
You too.
And, Alex, thank you for getting involved with Virgil's case in the first place because you made a world of difference just by doing that.
Well, thank you for saying that.
It's been an honor and a privilege to be his lawyer, let me tell you.
Okay, we're running out of time.
So maybe one or two more phone calls we have time for.
Lines are open.
Lines are open.
802-321-4225.
I do appreciate what that caller was saying.
And I will think of more good things.
I struggle with that myself a lot.
And it's a conversation you and I have, E, and I talk about with other people.
Talking to people and communicating is a great antidote, at least expressing, if you're having difficulty, just get it out of your head and try to work on things with people.
You know, a better example than the dogs imitating their owners, a Daily Dose of Internet is a channel on YouTube.
I try to watch that once a day.
They have millions of people that see this thing.
The guy must be rich who puts that out.
But just funny things that are happening all over the place.
Do we have a call?
Yes.
Okay.
And good evening.
You are on Off the Hook.
Go ahead.
Oh, good evening.
I agree with the last caller.
I, too, was looking for some positive news.
But in reference to the item that's happening in Austin, Texas, self-driven card?
Yes.
How does insurance get into that?
Yeah, I wonder about that, too, because, boy, it seems risky.
I don't know how that works.
Alex, do you have any idea?
I have no idea because I haven't touched those things with, you know, I wouldn't even touch them with, you know, your stick-driving hand or something.
I mean, I would imagine, though, that insurance companies would require a higher premium for these types of policies.
I mean, that's the only way that they can account for the increase in risk, right, and the policy.
Or maybe they account for it by writing in exceptions to those policies so you could be in that weird position of actually having an insurance policy
but no coverage when something bad happens.
That's a situation.
But what happens when one of those vehicles interacts with your vehicle?
Yeah, that's a very good question.
Well, I imagine they have to be insured on their side.
I don't know who you talk to in the car if nobody's driving it.
I'm sure this is something we're going to hear a lot about.
And the weird thing is, just to, you know, give a sense as to what their perspective will be,
they will say that a lot of human error accidents will be avoided.
But, you know, we hear about the ones that aren't human and that are, you know, like driving into a fake road.
And I think, you know, we'll see a lot more catastrophic results.
And without a human, it's really kind of a bad thing.
A short search came up with the software and vehicle manufacturers are expected to be liable for at-fault collisions.
And you can learn more about self-driving liability online.
But I think that's basically the premise is, is that vehicle at fault?
And then the manufacturer, they're supposedly liable.
But, again, if they're one big, giant entity, they may fight it.
Guess what, folks?
We're out of time.
I want to thank everybody for calling.
Please write to us, OTH at 2600.com.
We'll be back next week with another show at 7 p.m. on WBAI and Overtime following it.
But for tonight, let's just listen to these words.
We shall stand as true Canadians' maple leaves are flying free
From the mountains, to the prairies, to the shores of every sea
We will never bow to tyrants, nor let hatred shape our creed
Our truth is marching on
We will be where the stars and stripes have flown
With our voices joined together
We will let thy spirits rise
Our truth is marching on
Glory, glory, hallelujah
Glory, glory, hallelujah
Glory, glory, hallelujah
Our truth is marching on
We are not the 51st
Nor will we kneel to Trump's command
True North, strong and free forever
Standing proud in our own name
With a heart that beats for justice
We will keep our nation's flame
Our truth is marching on
Glory, glory, glory, hallelujah
Glory, glory, hallelujah
Glory, glory, hallelujah
Our truth is marching on
Anyone who is marching on