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And in Signal Land, we have Rob T. Firefly.
Good evening.
We have Gila.
Good evening.
And we have Alex.
You do.
Good evening.
Best Canada Day ever.
That's all I'm going to say.
But now we're back in America.
But now we're back in America and we have business to take care of and all kinds of fun things to talk about.
You know, you know, last week I brought up the ice tracker I have on the ice tracker I have on my phone.
It's put out by these people called Ice Lift Forward.
Long Island ice tracker.
Long Island ice tracker.
I don't know what it is, but it's exploded over the last few days.
I think ice is as active as ever, but I think there are more people looking for ice now.
Today, for instance, I saw a number of reports from Bayshore, New York, Uniondale, New York.
They say that they were conducting a traffic stop.
Now, ice does not have the authority to do that, to stop all cars and demand to see your papers.
So, do not comply if anybody in camouflage and a mask approaches your car.
You know, if you see that, I would speed away because it sounds to me like you're about to be carjacked.
We are living in a crazy time where people seem to think they can get away with anything just because they have the mobster in charge of the country telling them it's okay.
It's not.
And, you know, something else really fascinating has happened, too.
There's another app.
I imagine there are a lot of apps, but this one has started getting attention as of the last day or so.
I don't know if you guys have heard about this, but this particular app is called Ice Block, and it has more than 20,000 users.
I expect it's going to have a lot more than that soon.
It seems to be focused on Los Angeles mostly, which is certainly needed at this point.
And it's put out by this guy named Joshua Aaron, and he's been getting a lot of media attention in the last couple of days.
In fact, I understand Christine Noem even shouted him out.
No?
Just shouted?
Okay.
Oh, I'm sorry.
I had that wrong.
All right.
Well, yeah.
Now, according to the CNN story.
Yes, that's right.
CNN.
He has worked in and around the tech industry for around two decades.
Okay.
So we must know him, right?
We know everybody in the tech industry.
He built his first app, a blackjack game.
Now I know we know him.
At computer camp when he was 13 years old, and that must have been a fun computer camp.
His newest app is designed for a very different purpose, to let users alert people nearby to sightings of immigration and custom enforcement agents in their area.
Now, Aaron launched the platform called Ice Block way back in early April after watching Trump's administration begin its immigration crackdown.
Now, as you know, the White House's immigration policies have sparked mass protests across the United States.
And, you know, something about those protests that took place fairly recently that got millions of people out into the street.
Did you notice how many American flags there were?
A lot.
And this is something that I've been saying for many, many years, is that when you demonstrate about something, unless you actually want to dismantle the country or break away from it or something like that,
wave the flag, because it doesn't belong to the people that are trying to destroy the country.
It belongs to all of us.
And I think somebody got the message because that was a theme throughout.
No matter where you looked at demonstrations, you know, the No Kings demonstrations back in June, you saw flags.
And I think that's how you win people over.
That's how you get more people to realize that you're not a bunch of lunatics, that you're actually speaking sense,
and that maybe I should listen to more things that you say.
Anyway, IceBlock currently has more than 20,000 users, as mentioned.
Now, Aaron said, when I saw what was happening in this country, I wanted to do something to fight back.
He said the deportation efforts, to him, were reminiscent of Nazi Germany.
We're literally watching history repeat itself.
Now, IceBlock is designed to be an early warning system for users when ICE is operating nearby.
Aaron said users can add a pin on a map showing where they spotted agents, along with optional notes,
like what officers were wearing, what kind of car they were driving.
Other users within a five-mile radius will then receive a push alert notifying them of the sighting.
Now, he said he hopes these notifications will help people avoid interactions with ICE,
noting that he does not want users to interfere with the agency's operations.
And neither do we.
We don't want people to get hurt, get in trouble, anything like that.
Just be aware.
The app provides a similar warning when users log a sighting.
Please note that the use of this app is for information and notification purposes only.
It is not to be used for the purposes of inciting violence or interfering with law enforcement.
Now, ICE did not respond to CNN's request for comment.
You know, I don't know.
Try this.
Go out.
Look at YouTube, where they post a lot of news clips.
Or any local TV station.
They will always try to contact ICE about something that happened, about raids or about crackdowns or intimidation tactics or anything like that.
And literally 100% of the stories I've seen, I must have seen a couple of hundred stories, they have said, we tried to contact ICE and they did not respond.
They never respond.
It's like this scary monolithic force of masked, I don't even know if they're human.
Well, you know, you don't, really, because you never see their faces.
You never see their faces.
You don't know their names.
You know nothing about them.
But they're out there grabbing people, throwing them into unmarked vans, and disappearing them in this country right now.
So, yeah, they never respond.
They never comment.
They're just there.
And then they're gone.
Now, they do release press statements.
And on Monday, ICE acting director Todd Lyons released a statement criticizing the report I just read.
And saying that ICE block basically paints a target on federal law enforcement officers' backs.
And that officers and agents are already facing a 500% increase in assaults.
Haven't seen any.
Haven't heard of any.
I've seen a lot of assaults of individuals walking down the street, going to work, coming home from work, going to school, coming home from school, trying to take care of their kids.
You know, the criminals that Trump was talking about.
All those people that we need to be sheltered from.
I've seen a lot of assaults on them.
I've seen a lot of assaults on all of us.
It's because we all have to deal with the consequences in one way or another.
Whether it's our favorite restaurant closing.
Whether it's a fear of having masked men running down the street, grabbing people.
Whether it's a fear for a friend, a neighbor, family member, losing everything because of where they came from.
We all have to deal with that.
Now, something else that I find to be an annoyance is that this app is only available on iOS.
And the reason for that is its developer says the app would have to collect information that could ultimately put users at risk to provide the same experience on Android.
Really? No one's figured out a way to keep that from happening.
Android? You know, developed by Google?
Supposedly the people that have privacy in mind and Apple maybe didn't?
Well, things certainly have changed, haven't they?
Reassuring users of those privacy protections will likely be key to growing IceBlock's user base,
given how the government is building a database to aid in its deportation efforts.
We're going to get to databases in a minute.
We don't want anybody's device ID, IP address, location, said Aaron.
We don't want anything being discoverable.
And so this is 100% anonymous and free for anyone who wants to use it.
If we don't know this guy, shame on us.
I mean, this is just so awesome and amazing and, dare I say, patriotic.
Although IceBlock has no surefire way of guaranteeing the accuracy of user reports,
Aaron says he's built safeguards to prevent users from spamming the platform with fake sightings.
That is a real concern.
Users can only report a sighting within five miles of their location,
and they can only report once every five minutes.
Reports are automatically deleted after four hours.
He says he has no plans to monetize the free app,
but rather wants it to be a service to the community.
Now, his work on IceBlock stands in contrast to the support that some leaders in Silicon Valley
have shown to Trump, including donating to and attending his inauguration.
Some companies have also announced investments in expanding their U.S. presence
following the president's push for domestic tech manufacturing.
Aaron said, I think I would say grow a backbone.
It can't just be about the money.
I understand that you have shareholders to report to.
I understand that you have employees that need their paychecks,
but at what point do you say, enough is enough?
Well, that is admirable.
That is amazing.
That is so inspirational.
And I hope it's only the beginning.
And I really hope we know this guy, because, boy, he sounds cool.
Rob, go ahead.
Yeah.
Not too long ago, we were talking about what we in the hacker community
could be doing to make things better in the current situations
that we're all facing and that we're all afraid of.
And I think this is a shining example of that.
I do think that if this developer does not want to make a version for Android,
there is someone out there who can.
There is someone out there who should.
There are countless people out there who could collaborate on something like this
that is open source, that could be cross-platform.
I want to see more work along these lines.
We never want to hang all our hopes on just one thing that one person is behind,
because that is not fair to the users.
That's not fair to the developer.
I want to see just more things like this out there.
And I want there to be so many out there that if one gets knocked off an app store
or otherwise deactivated, there are others to take its place.
Go ahead, Alex.
I second what Rob was saying.
I think this is such a great example of what the hacker community can do
in terms of bringing people together, sharing data, sharing information,
sharing intelligence amongst the community.
It's really extraordinary.
I'm really wondering what the hell is going on with Android, though.
I mean, there's like an erector set of privacy-enhancing technologies out there
that should be able to shield this data in some way to protect people.
And I feel like we're leaving out a very vulnerable slice of the population there
that utilizes Androids.
Not everybody that can afford a brand-new iPhone or even an old iPhone.
And so Androids, I think, are really quite popular in the immigrant community.
So I think somebody should get to work on this.
I'm really not entirely sure what the problem is.
But one other thing I want to say, Emmanuel, also I applaud your sentiment of taking back
the flag here from the right, who had just tried to usurp it.
And to go back to that point, I mean, for many, many years, I have always flown a flag
at my home, wherever I am, whether it's in Vermont, D.C., Pennsylvania, New York,
it doesn't matter.
And I've even had people come over to me, revisiting from D.C., and say,
you know, why do you have the flag up?
And I said, what do you mean, why do I have the flag up?
Well, aren't you afraid people are going to think you're a Republican?
I said, absolutely not.
You know, if you give up the flag, the battle is over.
Then it's lost.
You know, the flag belongs to all of us.
And I think we all need to fly it.
I totally applaud that effort.
And those people are desecrated by, like, painting it blue, whatever that's all about.
I don't know.
I question their patriotism.
But anyway, yes, Gila, go ahead.
So I've just been doing a little bit of searching to see anything.
Apparently, Joshua Aaron was doxed hard on X, excuse me, on Twitter last week.
And he said, this morning, the hardcore right wing on Twitter decided to dox my home address,
full legal name, and incite hate and violence toward me and my family.
The comments are filled with hate and anti-Semitism.
And since there seems to be no way to accurately report something like this, like, it's bad.
And I did see something else go by on a Facebook post that I didn't click on because I didn't
want it to work my algorithm.
But it was like, there's this app that's letting illegals evade ISIS.
And big tech is behind it.
And I'm like, you have no idea what you're talking about.
I'm glad people are running scared.
I really am.
The right people are running scared.
If we can get them to blame big tech, maybe that's not such a bad thing for him.
You know, maybe we can screw up the algorithm enough so that he's protected, because that's
that is insane what I'm hearing and just very, very upsetting.
And I understand that Christy Noem, basically, she weighed in on this, issued a statement on
Twitter, basically saying, this sure looks like obstruction of justice.
Our brave ICE law enforcement face a 500% increase.
We mentioned that in assaults against them.
If you obstruct or assault our law enforcement, we will hunt you down and you will be prosecuted
to the fullest extent of the law.
When you say something like we will hunt you down, you know, what is that?
What is that called to mind?
It calls to mind jackbooted thugs executing people.
That's that's what I get out of that hunting you down.
It's this is disgusting.
These people really, really need to start facing justice for the crap they are putting our country
through.
I'm tired just sitting back and saying, oh, how bad is it going to get today?
You know, and just kind of watching all the pundits saying, boy, this is this is unprecedented.
Where will it go next?
It's time that we step up and start doing something about it, because this is not I don't think
the America anybody wanted, even on Election Day, regardless of what direction they they
they went in.
It's it's it's damn scary.
Go ahead.
Who is first?
Alex, you then Rob.
Sure.
I mean, look, speaking speaking of ice here, I think we should also bear history of how
ice was created in mind.
And it was created shortly after 9-11.
You know, this was one of these sort of Department of Homeland Security, 9-11 creations and incantations
of authority that were going to be used to target things like terrorism.
And for a long time, ice was not known throughout the nation and the world to be a bunch of jackbooted
thugs, you know, running around with masks on, hiding outside courtrooms and snatching
people up after the after their hearings.
It is totally insane.
During the Obama administration, the focus with ice really was for terrorism and very serious
criminals.
It wasn't going after anybody who was an undocumented person.
But then, of course, Trump changed it.
And he changed that, I think, primarily through executive orders and policy changes.
And then and they focus really just much more on broader immigration enforcement and increasing
these raids.
And now it is just ramped up to the nth extent.
I think Biden tried to reel it back in, but for whatever reason, wasn't entirely successful
and reeling in the authority of ice.
They got used to having this authority and wielding this power during the Trump administration.
And so it persisted.
And now ice not only has the support of its own agency and DHS and others, but they're
working with more closely with local law enforcement.
They're working with other federal agencies.
They're going to have access to much more data.
This is becoming an extraordinarily scary department.
And I think to bring this back, because everybody criticizes us about talking too much about politics,
I guess this is like the classic definition of function creep here.
You start off in one way and it changes ever so slightly, ever so slightly over the last
22 years.
I mean, ICE was created in 2003.
Over the last 22 years, this is a totally different agency than when it started.
Go ahead, Rob.
I've got another.
I think Alex very succinctly put what I was going to say.
Feel good about that, Alex?
You took the words right out of Rob's mouth.
All right.
I imagine he would have been more succinct, though.
Yeah.
You can argue about succinctness later.
Okay.
So let's go on to ICE acting director Todd Lyons again, who basically has now turned their
sites onto CNN, onto the media.
CNN's promotion of an ice spotting app is reckless and irresponsible.
Advertising an app that by reporting it, you're advertising it.
Advertising an app that basically paints a target on federal law enforcement officers' backs
is sickening.
Are you ready for the line?
Does everybody want to predict the line, the next line?
No?
Go ahead, Alex.
We need to put them down.
It's obstruction.
No, no, no.
It's a crime.
I'll give you a hint.
It's a crime.
It's something very specific.
Oh.
A specific number.
42.
Oh, my God.
You've got to pay attention.
Kyle?
500.
You got it.
500%.
Yes.
This is this fiction that they're pushing.
You know, 500% compared to what?
My officers and agents are already facing a 500% increase in assaults and going on live
television to announce an app that lets anyone zero in on their locations is like inviting
violence against them with a national megaphone.
Okay, Todd.
First of all, the way the app works, you might not be familiar, it happens after you guys
have already made your presence known.
All right?
So basically, when people are saying, hey, there are ICE agents here, they're talking about
something that has already happened, not something that's about to happen.
Would I like to have an app that tells where your goons are going to be in the next 24 hours?
Yes, I would love that very much.
But unfortunately, we live in a world where that does not yet exist.
And I sure hope it does someday.
But right now, we have this app that will tell us when you are terrorizing people and
spreading the word.
And I don't see a damn thing wrong with that.
Oh, I'm sorry.
Let me continue with what he has to say.
CNN is willfully endangering the lives of officers who put their lives on the line every
day and enabling dangerous criminal aliens to evade U.S. law.
Really dangerous criminal aliens.
Have you seen the people that are being swept up here?
These are people who have jobs washing dishes 20 hours or what, 12 hours a day?
Yeah, a ridiculous amount.
These are mothers picking up their children in schools.
These are innocent people who have not done anything except overstay their visas or they are in the
process of getting sanctuary in this country.
And that process is being aborted by these thugs who are basically throwing them into a prison or sending
them to a foreign country where we don't even know where they are.
That is that is the craziest thing.
He finishes his remarks by saying, is this simply reckless journalism or overt activism?
And so, yeah, they are targeting anyone who even discusses this right now or or basically
spreads the word in any any possible way.
Go ahead, Rob.
Yeah, if they want to claim that this is putting their agents in danger and, you know, people are
attacking their agents and all this sort of thing, why aren't they showing us?
Because we know they love showing us them doing their what they think is their job well done.
They love putting out their, you know, statements and pictures and everything about how badass and
wonderful they are.
Where's the video of them being attacked?
Because, you know, I think that if they had that, they would be spreading that everywhere.
I haven't seen a single video of ICE agents being I've seen ICE agents pushing people.
And I suppose when you push somebody, you don't get to move forward as fast as you would if
there was nobody there.
So I guess, you know, if you consider that an attack, the presence of somebody, that's
all I can see.
I mean, I've you would think there would be video out there at 500 percent increase.
I don't even know how to interpret that.
That's based on what they they they give you nothing.
Alex, go ahead.
Well, as regards to the 500 percent increase in violence against ICE agents, I would just
like to remind our listeners that studies have shown that 73 percent of all statistics
are made up on the spot.
How long have you been holding that one in, Alex?
A while.
Thanks for asking that.
Again, yeah.
Very good.
Well, it's great that that this app is out there.
And kudos to Joshua Aaron for for writing it.
And you know what?
The way we can protect him from the idiots who are targeting him now is for there to
be a thousand apps.
So if you have the ability to write an app that can simply report when ICE agents are
in the area, when basically, you know, the app doesn't do that.
The person controlling the app does that.
They say, hey, I just saw somebody.
And this is basically sending out information.
If you can write an app like that, please do so and label it with the city that you're in
or the state that you're in.
And we'll have a whole lot of these things out there.
And one person won't have to take the heat for all of it from the would be fascist out
there.
Now, we talked about databases, and you might be surprised to know that the so-called Liberty
Loving Administration that we have currently in power is compiling a huge database with
your name in it.
That's right.
They have merged immigration data with Social Security information to create a massive index.
And the whole reason for that is to stop.
Who wants to guess?
OK, this is good.
Rob, do you have your hand up?
No, you don't.
Alex, you do.
No, I know.
It's got to be voter fraud.
I hope you didn't read the story, Alex, because I would have said, I would have said, you know,
basically immigration fraud.
I would have said Social Security fraud.
But this is...
Oh, no, this is it.
This is, it's got, it's got to be, right?
It's got to be voter fraud.
Merging immigration data with Social Security data to combat voter fraud.
OK, whatever.
But whatever you have to use to justify it.
The U.S. Department of Homeland Security has, for the first time, the first time, built
a national citizenship database that combines information from immigration agencies and the
Social Security Administration.
Never done that before.
And if we had known they were going to be doing that, I'm sure most of us would have said, hell no.
The database was created in collaboration with the Department of...
Anyone?
Yes, Alex.
Would it be Homeland Security?
No, you're wrong.
Go ahead, Kyle.
Government efficiency?
You're right, yes.
That's two for you, Kyle.
Department of Government Efficiency, DOGE.
Remember those guys?
You know, it's funny how Trump is now saying he's going to stick DOGE on Elon Musk because
Elon Musk criticized him.
Can you believe that?
This is so perfect.
DOGE is going to turn on Elon Musk.
Woof.
Oh, you can't write this.
Um, anyway, um, yeah, they're, they're basically, uh, this is an effort to bridge the gaps between
disparate information sources, uh, to make it easier to determine, uh, whether someone
is a citizen, uh, according to NPR, which first reported the details of this database.
Now it's the result of an expansion of the systematic alien verification for entitlements
program.
Um, and that somehow spells the word save.
Did you know that?
Uh, systematic alien verification for entitlements.
Well, they're so clever.
Uh, that's made up of smaller databases within the Homeland Security Department and an integration
with information from the Social Security Administration.
The, uh, centralized repository is searchable and can be accessed by state and local election
officials to look up the names of anyone trying to vote to determine if they are citizens.
Until now, election officials had to ask potential voters for documents verifying their citizenship
or rely on a hard-to-navigate patchwork of databases.
Yeah.
I wonder how many people they've actually caught using this.
Voter fraud is rare in the U.S., experts say, and consequences include fines or jail time.
And lately, the majority of people committing it turn out to be Republicans, oddly enough,
trying to get more votes for Trump.
Yeah.
Uh, so, uh, previously agencies, uh, involved in voting were required to use numbers issued
by the DHS to look up voter registrations, which they may not have had access to, but may have
been more likely to possess Social Security numbers.
So, uh, yeah, this makes it all very, very easy.
But not only for, for voter fraud investigations, for all kinds of things.
Now, the, um, uh, the citizenship database is one of the first results of Doge's efforts
to gain access to and merge information on Americans, uh, from agencies across the federal
government, including the IRS, um, reports indicate Doge is attempting to create a single
data hub that enables access to these vast troves of information on Americans in an effort
to eliminate the separation of information in isolated or protected silos.
We used to think of these isolated and protected silos as security for our privacy.
You know, that used to be a thing that we cared about.
Now it's the threat.
Um, in response, uh, union members in Maryland have sued the Office of Personnel Management,
the Treasury Department, and the Education Department was left of it for sharing personal
information with Doge officials who had no need to know the vast amount of sensitive personal
information to which they were granted access.
Defendants admit that the Social Security Administration granted Doge, uh, Doge personnel brought access to
millions of Americans sensitive, uh, uh, PAI, that's personally identifiable information.
Uh, U.S. District Judge Ellen Lipton Hollander of Maryland wrote in a decision ordering a temporary
block on the Social Security Administration sharing information with Doge, this intrusion into the
personal affairs of millions of Americans absent an adequate explanation for the need to do so
is not in the public interest.
Well, thank God for judges that step up and say, this is not right.
This has to be stopped in its tracks.
That is something about this system that I am proud to say is, is, is, um, is a valuable,
a valuable, um, um, I guess foundation, you know, it's a check of, uh, of balance checks and
balances, you know, a check of, of, uh, power that, uh, you know, Trump can just issue a statement
and at least, you know, if there's a judge that has some common sense, he can put an end to this.
But Alex, I'm going to ask you this now in the last week, the Supreme court has basically weighed
in on that and said something to the effect of, yeah, judges can't do that anymore.
Do I have that right?
Yeah, it was, uh, that was a bizarre decision to, to my mind when I read it, because it basically said,
as I understood it, and I, and I didn't, and candidly, I didn't read the actual opinion from the Supreme,
but I read a lot of reporting on it though.
And it also seemed to circle on the fact that judges have to, the effect of a judicial ruling
will only be with respect to the individual facts and circumstances of that case,
or, or, or the limits of judicial power are, are very localized in, in many ways on the basis of
this decision and that judges shouldn't make these, these wider pronouncements, um, which is exactly
what they are there to do. I mean, they are there to address federal questions, questions that arise
under federal law. The federal courts are designed specifically to hear issues of constitutional import.
State, the state courts can't do that. State courts are not competent to interpret, let's say, you know,
the Fifth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. That's why we have the federal court system and federal judges
who specialize in this type of thing and ensure that the state doesn't encroach on those rights
that are enshrined in the Bill of Rights. And, and, and so to limit judicial power like this
is really, uh, disheartening in, in many, many ways, because it seems like it's an obvious,
like the decision had an obvious political slant to it as well. Um, but Emmanuel, in, in as much as I
think you, you are, um, applauding the, the federal judiciary here and standing up to, to Trump, I think
it's important to note not only has the federal judiciary been considered to be the bulwark of this
republic and have stood up against tyranny time and time again in this country. Um, you know, think
back to, you know, the, the Korematsu decision with Japanese internment camps. We've had a lot of
stains, notable stains on the human rights tapestry in this country. And the federal judges have stepped
in to, to right those wrongs. Think about, you know, the Supreme Court during the, the, um, the civil
rights era as well. It was kind of extraordinary, but, um, they're under threat now too. And, and Trump has
been targeting them and intimidating judges and threatening them with impeachment, uh, threatening
to release information about judges. And, um, this is a, another form of trying to centralize power
in the executive branch. And, and this is a really interesting, um, system. We think about how the
constitution was designed in the 18th century. It was really a form of what we would consider to be
today, decentralization. And Trump is, is, is like this rogue system, system administrator trying to
centralize power in himself time and time again, by breaking these systems that were designed to
prevent that power from being centralized. That's a good analogy. And, and, and you use the word
bulwark, which is the word I was searching for, and I've never used it successfully in a sentence,
but one day, uh, think about ways that, you know, we have dealt with system administrators in the
past, rogue system administrators have kind of lost their minds and, and gone power crazy.
How we dealt with them and figure out a way to translate that into what's going on now.
Rob, go ahead. Yeah. Talking about the, the sheer overreach of this. And, uh, it's important to note
that and remind folks that Doge calls itself the department of government efficiency. It is not a
department of the United States government. It was not established by any of the congressional
means that are supposed to be there to establish something like this. Doge is an initiative of the
administration. It is an office at the white house. It reports directly to Trump. So when we say that
Doge now has this massive centralized database on every single American, Trump has this massive
database of every single American. It is Trump. It is an arm of Trump. And, uh, you know, whatever,
whatever jokiness there ever was in his name is no longer in, in, in, in Doge's name is no longer funny
because it is overreach. That is the purpose and the, um, the, um, the sheer, the, the sole function
of this organization. And I should point out that, uh, this particular database, uh, was created with
little engagement of the public, something that is requisite for building these types of mass
surveillance databases. The Privacy Act of 1974 requires federal agencies to notify the public if
there are new ways they plan to use or collect Americans' personal information. Legal experts
have also questioned whether this sort of a centralized database sidesteps many of the privacy
and security protections implemented within each agency. The consolidation of personal information
into a mass database is unprecedented and has sparked concern among immigration and privacy advocates.
The creation of a centralized repository brings together pieces of information that were previously
within the purview of separate agencies and potentially makes it easier for government
officials to look up individuals' data from across the government. And many of us are worried about how
else that database could be used. And I think that's the key right there. You know, you may say this is
to combat voter fraud or to find people who are in the country illegally or to, uh, uncover social security
fraud. But, um, what we're not looking at is all of the ways that this can be misused and will be
misused because there has never been an instance where something like this has been implemented and
has not been misused. So the question is, are you comfortable as an American having your data in this
massive database where you can be targeted on the whim of a bureaucrat or a politician or somebody
potentially much, much scarier? Were you consulted about this? Did you know this was going to happen?
Well, it's happening right now. And we voted for it as a nation. We voted for this. So, um, time to rethink
that. Yes, Alex.
Yeah. I mean, the public input here, I think is a really important point that you bring up here because
the, the privacy act, you know, passed way back in the, in the mid seventies, uh, I believe requires some
kind of public notification and comment period for this type of data to be aggregated in these ways. And so there's this,
uh, complete and utter failure to consult the public or to comply with federal law and how these things
would be created, which would make it vulnerable to attack, uh, legally as well. So I, I think it's
quite likely that unless they draw the wrong judge, which is quite possible these days, I think an
injunction will issue against the creation or the utilization of this national database and sometime
very soon. I'm pretty sure. Right. But do you think that, that, what that judge says is going
to be allowed to stand? Remember judges have been stripped of their power by the Supreme court,
basically. Yeah. Well, the, the, the government would appeal, you know, but this would have,
this would have effect, you know, on, on the federal government. I don't think that that Supreme
court decision that recently issued should affect this particular case because the object would be the
database. The exact object of the case would be the database so that judge would, would clearly have
authority to rule on it. I, I would hope, but it is, um, yeah, look at it, it is very, very concerning.
And I think there's a lot of other reasons here too. I mean, it's, it's arguably a fifth amendment
violation. It arguably could violate due process concerns as well, because this national database is
going to have undoubtedly information associated with your citizenship and its status. And if that's
changed on a citizen without any notice or opportunity to be heard for, with respect to
that status change, which is then relied on by other federal agencies to detain you, deport you,
what, you know, treat you in certain manners, offer you certain entitlements, benefits, et cetera,
um, then there's going to be an effect here. So I, I think there's very, very clear, um, due process
concerns. And then the discriminatory use of this is really quite possible and there's just no oversight.
So, I mean, there's a litany of, of issues here that remain unresolved and I think make it
vulnerable to attack. Well, a couple of things here. Um, first of all, I think we're all putting
way too much faith in the Supreme court because in a single vote, they can just say, yeah, this is
fine. Move on. And it's over. And right now, the way that Trump has set it up, they may do just that.
It doesn't matter if it's by one vote or by three votes, they can just make it okay.
And then the other thing that I don't think we're really considering here is that, um,
even if they say this thing is, is, is, um, it is an outrage and must be stopped.
Isn't it already put together? Didn't they already combine this data? And we might say,
you're not supposed to use this, but do we really believe that they're going to listen to that?
And do we really believe that they're going to secure it as well? Anytime the government
historically has centralized massive amounts of sensitive personal information, it really hasn't
gone all that well, has it? I mean, the perfect example of this is to look back at the office of
personnel management breach of all the SF 86 information for employees that the SF 86 forms national
security questionnaire that anybody who holds a security clearance or applies for a security
clearance has to fill out contains massive amounts of highly personal information, like
your criminal history or drug usage, psychological information, medical information. Pardon the
beagle. No, your dog is right. Alex, your dog is absolutely right to be concerned.
Ah, that's exactly right. Well, she's getting all worked up about this. I mean, you know,
eagles, right? So, um, so, so, oh yeah. So that we're talking about the OPM breach. So that was
breached ostensibly by China and all of that data, all of, all of that information about anybody who
has held or does hold a security clearance at that time has fallen into the hands of a foreign
adversary. So now we want to centralize even more sensitive citizen-related information.
Alex, I got to say, I'm not so worried about the foreign adversaries anymore. I'm worried about the
adversaries right here. Because yeah, they have proven themselves to be completely untrustworthy
and evil. And, um, how much are we going to just sit back and say, well, how evil can they possibly
get? Hey, you're listening to Off the Hook here on WBAI in New York. And I want to urge people to
support this radio station where we are not afraid to speak our minds and to have you do the same
whenever the opportunity arises. Please support the radio station. Go to buddy.wbai.org,
pledge a monthly amount that will help keep this place on the air for the indefinite future.
And boy, do we need a voice like this in this particular city right now, uh, and in the country.
So, uh, please, um, help us out in whatever way you can. Please spread the word. If you know any,
uh, exceedingly wealthy people, uh, by all means contact them and ask them to, uh, to send a pledge
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single format and our format is, is variety of, um, of, uh, viewpoints, uh, I'd like to hear from
them. I would like to know about that station, but WBAI, as far as I'm concerned, has been around
the longest. And that says something that says something about the need for a place like this.
That says something about the, the, um, uh, the value that New Yorkers hold dear.
And, um, you don't have to be from New York though, to support WBAI because we now reach
the entire world through WBAI.org. You can stream us anytime. Off the Hook has been on the air since
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and evolve. We have so much, uh, documented as far as, uh, the way, um, uh, phones used to sound,
the, the rings and busy signals and, and, uh, not only that, but the way society has changed,
the way that we deal with things, the things that we take for granted now, and the things that we
warned about in the past that are now mainstream or the things that we warned about in the past that
are now threatening us about to happen. So, um, keeping all kinds of different voices on the air.
And of course, we all don't agree with each other. We have all kinds of different ideas.
It is so important. It is so vital. It is so, um, such a major part of democracy that, um, pledging to
WBAI. And I don't mean a bit of irony in saying this, pledging to WBAI is about the most patriotic
thing you can do. Buddy.wbai.org. You guys have any, uh, other contact, uh, info, phone numbers,
the like, uh, I never have that in front of me. No? Okay. Well, uh, if, if you find it, please,
please, um, bring it forward. Uh, Kyle, did you have something?
Well, give to WBAI.org is, is also, uh, a fantastic place to make a contribution.
But I was going back to our topic. Uh, I, I thought, um, let's go back to the topic. I
think Gila has, um, yeah, what are those? I do indeed. I have the phone number, which
is 1-833-922-4692. And for those who are paying attention, that does in fact spell out
833-WBAINYC. Those letters get a little squished together. Yeah. 833-WBAINYC. That's
922-4692. Um, and you can make your gift there. Uh, but again, a play, uh, a plug for
buddy.wbai.org. A reliable stream of income is the best thing you can do for a nonprofit
organization. Um, and then again, the more you give, the less we have to ask it for.
Okay. And Kyle, go ahead.
I just wanted to add on something that was said basically about the size of this particular
organized database of people's information. It's as compared to previous, um, attacks or,
um, basically, um, stolen data that a mat of a mass like government employees, a lot of that
stuff can be compared now with a lot of, uh, analytical tools and, and the more organized
it is the, the larger, um, uh, the larger, basically the larger vulnerability you risk if
it gets into the hands of a multitude and into the marketplace or is, um, something used
by a wide range of people. And it, I think we were kind of talking about, you're talking
about the future and we were also sort of insinuating that this is something we should
affect, but you have to almost act now as though this stuff is already going to be circulated
because it's already been organized there. No matter how well they think they might control
it, it's going to become a desirable product of information. And, uh, ultimately it will affect
the people that are using it in whatever ways, you know, nefarious or otherwise, or for political
gain, let's say that it will invariably be repurposed and used against them if it's a comprehensive
source of data. So it may be a part of facial recognition or some app that ICE agents are using
today, but it could be a part of, um, a very different set of tools tomorrow.
Absolutely. I mean, we don't know the, the, the space kittens of Alpha Centauri might've
already downloaded it, you know, and it's out there now. What are you going to do? How are
you going to stop that? The data is out, you know, they're not real, are they? No, they're
not real. They're not real. We'll check, but you raise a good point because I think about
we were talking in recent weeks about real ID, you know, about everybody being forced or encouraged
strongly to upgrade their, their driver's licenses or to get a passport card or whatnot,
uh, and become a part of a standardized, um, a form of identification. Now, if all those databases
are connected as, uh, is, is, is the goal, well, that's a backup to this database. And all of a
sudden you have all this information out there and you have a way of checking it. It's, it's really
frightening. Well, and for years, if you want to go to talk about, if you want to talk about what,
what has been said in the past for years, we've talked about how private, um, companies are
amassing databases for marketing and other purposes, a lot of the ad, um, surveillance
capitalism stuff that that's all been widely documented, uh, and is itself some, a precursor
to these conditions and, and the way that this stuff can, can be used and combined in the ways
you're suggesting.
We only have a couple of minutes left, but I just wanted to make sure that we didn't ignore this
story. Uh, and that's something we were afraid of. We've been afraid of for, for quite some time,
ever since Trump decided he was going to sue 60 minutes and CBS and paramount for the edits on an
interview with Kamala Harris that he didn't like. It doesn't seem to understand that things get
edited and that's the way you do interviews. Uh, in fact, the unedited transcript was released and,
uh, that pretty much backed that up. There wasn't any evidence of, of changing or, uh, giving her
preferential treatment or any of that. But in that particular case, well, guess what? The, um,
courageous bosses, uh, up on high in paramount decided they were going to settle and give Trump
$16 million. Yeah. Uh, this is insane. Journalists today were infuriated. Um, and, uh, at least one
senator wants to investigate where the bribery laws were broken. Company just wants him to go away.
But you know what, when you, when you pay off somebody like that, he doesn't go away. He comes
back time and time again. And I guess paramount is going to find that out now. Um, paramount,
of course, being the owners of CBS, they say the money will go to Trump's future presidential library
and to pay his legal fees. Yeah. Because that's what he needs. Um, they say they're not apologizing
or expressing regret about the story. Yeah, you are. You are. Whenever you, uh, you write a check
for $16 million, you're kind of conceding something. Yeah. Um, Trump's lawyers claimed he
suffered mental anguish, uh, following the 60 minutes interview. I don't think that's the cause.
I don't think that's a, and he originally sued for $20 billion. So I guess, all right, this,
this must be, and Alex, maybe you can back me up here. This is a legal, uh, hint here that we're
providing on off the hook. Uh, if you want to sue somebody, sue them for an amount of money that is
so crazy that they will, they will, um, um, settle for an amount that's less crazy, but in the eyes of
us commoners, still pretty damn crazy. So, okay. He didn't get a $20 billion. He got $16 million.
I don't feel any better. I really don't. Alex, go ahead. Closing words.
Yeah. I mean, these, in these types of lawsuits, plaintiffs always speak really,
really outrageous sums of money up first, but then the actual damages are, are a tiny fraction
of that generally. But this is, this is really a terrible precedent that happened here with 60
minutes. And, you know, to, to settle in this way really is, is disappointing because if you think
about media organizations, they're so vulnerable to legal threats already. They're so vulnerable
to political pressure. Now this increases the likelihood of political interference in journalism
by exerting a abusive process in the legal system. I mean, it's a chipping away again at one of these
decentralized forms of governance. It's a guarantee that is what's going to happen. And, uh, after the
show, remind me to send a funeral bouquet over to 60 minutes on the death of journalism. Thank you very
much. Okay. We are out of here off the hook. Uh, we'll be back next week, 7 PM on WBAI, write to us,
OTH at 2600.com and you can, um, you can tune in, uh, at, um, uh, on YouTube on channel 2600,
uh, at eight o'clock. We'll be on eight o'clock. We'll even be taking phone calls. So, uh, hopefully
we will see you there. Good night.
The virus took on many shapes, the bear, the elk, the antelope, the elephant, the deer,
the mineral, the iron, the copper, the colt and the rubber, the coffee, the cotton, the sugar,
the people, the people, the people, the germ traveled faster than the bullet. They harvest
the mountainside, protect the crops, herd, the cattle, the people, the people, the people,
the people, the people, the people, the women and children are separated from the men. They're
divided as according to the regional filters of their minds. The violence of arrogance
cross into the air, nestles into the geospatial cortex. We are not a concrete people.
the
Why don't we
Drunk beats by region
I was awakened by my elder brother
The compound was on fire
Awakened by my elder brother
The compound was on fire
The compound was on fire.
The missionaries never hid their perspective.
Perspectives of land, but rather see us disappear.
Recyclable prayers.
The people.
This is my body, which is given for you.
The people.
This is my blood.
We are not a conquered people.
I was awakened by my elder brother.
The compound was on fire.
I was awakened by my elder brother.
The compound was on fire.
Fire, fire, fire, fire, fire.


and welcome everybody here on youtube for overtime emmanual over here i seem to be in
youtube land kyle did you make it okay hello how you doing um and i see rob t firefly hello i see
gila good evening uh i see the guy who played the scarecrow and i see alex you do good evening again
how you doing uh and did we make it to uh youtube we did and we sound good well we'll have to fix that
um okay yeah well um uh that was quite a show that was fun um a lot of interesting things going on
and we like to hear perspectives and rob looks like you have something on your mind and and
right after you we did get some uh some some info over the course of the show over social media that
uh bai's stream was not being our friend this evening it was cutting it out every goddamn time
i swear to god i don't know what it is we have no control over this i i really don't know how
how to get them to fix it i really don't just to just to let everyone know the episode will be in
its uh complete and intact form in our podcast and archive mp3s um and on 2600.com because we record
that on our side and assuming that not everybody listens to the show online or tries to makes it
over here if people could please help spread the word uh you know take over megaphones and radio
stations and things like that let people know that they can hear that radio show if they go to our
website 2600.com off the hook do you think it's popular like is that is that the website stream for
the radio station like they're so many people are trying to access it like they're having so much
i don't know i honestly don't know they just can't even control it to put it in the words how do we how
do i interpret of um of uh an infotech executive i do not have the bandwidth to deal with this right
now oh you don't no i don't so uh maybe somebody out there does and can call the radio station and
offer to help them fix this but just be advised it might not be as simple as you think
uh okay i'm i'm i am sorry about that uh gila go ahead okay so i uh need to address something first
of all greetings to the 29 people who are here with us right now we're very glad you're here
um there is something dumb going on on youtube and youtube did it and we didn't do it and i have found
out how to fix it so here's what happened tonight can we guess can we guess what the dumb thing youtube
did now is i would love for you to guess can you give me a hint uh it has to do with the chat with
the chat yes okay well it might be something i did but i was i was changing a few settings but um
just out of fun really uh but okay i i have no idea i don't want to implicate myself so go ahead okay
here's my question did you enable the live leaderboard or did youtube do that automatically i don't know
what that is okay so folks here's the deal uh youtube has enabled this thing where if you're
participating in a live chat of this nature you can like game the system and get experience points
and become like the top fan or it'll rank the top 50 people and what i learned is that you can opt
out of this youtube opted everyone into it automatically and you can opt yourself out of
it right now go in hold on a second what what exactly is this this sounds like long form tiktok
what what what do people get the what what do they just please explain it a little a little bit more
so i'm explaining the best i can so apparently they've gotten like they they're trying to gamify
live chat what does that mean it means that the person who makes the most comments who's the most
active participant or the most active follower they're giving out badges for the top three
participants right now what do you get with a badge um a warm fuzzy feeling and a little thing next to
your name okay so why do we care if somebody gets a badge so we don't have to deal with that right
we don't have anything to do with it no but it's annoying so if you want to turn this off we don't
i certainly don't know how to do it i'm not okay i'm not a channel owner i'm not a humble moderator
i'm not challenging this i'm just asking what part is annoying that do are we seeing something or
yes what do we see what do we see i don't look at the chat i know you don't so right now people who
have badges every time they chat there's a little thing with a crown and a number next to their name
a crown and a number really yeah really all right hold on a second hold on who's number one
i gotta know right now our friend lex is number one friend of the pod lex pendragon pendragon i
always say it wrong um we were asked number one and we refer to him as number one from now on to
condemn this please and then when everybody since you are the leader you have a crown you say there's
a crown yeah okay so you are the king um people will follow and they will not question if they know
what's good for them so actually what he said was i'll opt out and give up the monarchy enjoy your
anarchy let gila tell us how yes how how gila do we embrace anarchy please all right folks if you're
in youtube go to settings go to privacy scroll down and under live chat turn off leaderboard
participation wait wait wait hold on i'm sorry but this is just so bizarre and crazy you're saying that
everybody has to do that themselves what if one person doesn't do it and they're a real dick they
they're just gonna be number one forever right here's the thing once you opt out you don't see
it anymore yeah but but they will the person who thinks they're a king is gonna see that forever
what is the point in this just to get people to say things even though it doesn't mean anything
yes i honestly think that youtube is attempting to just like gamify the thing
and um dory we see your questions hang on we'll come back to talk about the live stream in just a
second i'm just getting cranky um so basically there's like super chat and stuff they're trying
to make it more i think they're trying to make it twitchier honestly did you say super chat i did i'm
sorry what the hell is super chat what i think is happening is that youtube youtube live is attempting to
like compete more in the twitch stream or the i'm sorry the twitch sphere maybe yeah in the streaming
sphere so they're trying to do things that like youtube needs to see a doctor it sounds like yes so
the upshot is oh you need to go to privacy turn on the switches in live chat if you turn on the switch
it will turn off the leaderboard why can't the people running the chat i.e. you turn this off so that
we're not annoyed by it exactly i can't find that information and frankly even if i could i don't
think i have the permissions to do it i think this is probably something at the channel ownership level
which i don't have do you remember how long and how hard i argued against having chat in the first
place because i said something stupid is going to happen well something stupid happened something
stupid happened but it's really easy to fix it takes two seconds to fix and then it's not going to be
an issue anymore yeah but if somebody comes in who doesn't agree with our how we believe it should
be they're just going to be the forever king or queen is it just kings or queens it's a crown okay
i don't know this is um this is this is weird this is very weird
yeah no it's completely bizarre why are you wagging your finger at us do you not do you not agree that
we feel monarchy is wrong i i don't disagree i don't think any of what you're saying is disagreeable
here for once but um i was just wondering if somebody could read out the phone call i feel like
we're we're due for a phone call this is the phone and portion of the show the only reason you would say
that is because you've already called the number or something and and you think that's funny um oh
no two three two one oh sorry we're trying to fix a situation here alex in case you haven't noticed
it's pretty serious it's pretty serious it's with rebel you know got all kind he's in russia
something god knows what's going on with him but the man of meat okay so um we just want basic chat
so i have to have the crowns disappeared um is everything under control mine have disappeared
rob's have disappeared i think slowly but surely people are starting to make that happen if you can
live with them now turn it off before next week that's totally fine um did want to and also yes it
is confirmed this is stupid um so thank you everybody for hanging with us yes no i'm just wondering who had
the authority to confirm that it was stupid that's that's all the former king all right you know what
i'm done with this conversation let's take a phone call eight uh wait uh 802-321-4225 call us and save
us from from this nonsense how about if if you post as a king uh you go into a timeout because that's
what happened it should happen to every king i think put him in a timeout for like you know a decade
eight three three five whoa i really wanted to get to the fives seven five five two six zero zero
that's eight three three why are you reading these what numbers are these that's our our uh the secret
toll-free number what it wasn't supposed to be well it's not secret anymore but go ahead give it out
again all right i'm gonna give out the other one 802-321-4225 i'll read it backwards
no don't do that because you're you're gonna call somebody okay eight three three seven five five
two six zero zero oh like in 2600 okay get it that's cool all right as the phone calls are
coming in so fast that uh they they're colliding and not ringing you can also ask questions or share
a story on the youtube chat as gila had discussed in our previous couple minutes here but the phone
is connected and awaiting operators are you know they're they're around operators are getting
frustrated is what's happening they're hanging out all right um so every if i if i look on any youtube
channel i'm gonna see this this mayhem playing out is that what you're saying if you are if you
haven't adjusted your settings and you go into a live stream yes wow oh it's got to be live
uh-huh why i guess most chats probably are live right i mean otherwise it's a comment
right so i think basically what they're trying to do is emulate a lot of what's going on and like
tick tock and and twitch and people can donate that way too right exactly that's a lot of what the
super chat stuff yeah that's what this is they're trying to they're trying to get people to spend
money on super chat which is uh hold on how do you spend money on a youtube chat no i want to hear
this how how do you spend money on a youtube chat there there is a way to to click and buy a super
chat which i i think makes your chat bigger somehow on the screen and super stickers which are what they
sound like people are paying to make a window bigger yeah like real estate further like make your
text bigger in the chat so you stand out oh so what what you say is have we all lost our minds
really this is awful this is terrible no it's not us it's i didn't say it was everything changing
around us no everything in this way destroyed in front of us it's it's just completely wrong
all right well um how about this um we we post can we do this can we post a note when people enter
the chat saying okay we know it's not your fault but if you leave this stupid crown thing on uh and
you don't turn it off and you post more than twice after a warning uh you get banned or muted or executed
or whatever the term is now in uh in youtube chat i don't know i mean the thing is that at least
for me and i think for rob as well once you turn it off for you it turns it off for everyone
wait on your view of them i can't see it anymore unless i want unless i hit the crown
you should see it as the admin because you know just turning it off it's like okay it's like the
problem that we had with with gmail uh where all our mail was going to spam and and and one of one of
our uh co-admins here who i won't name because i don't want to embarrass them uh said that they were
able to fix the problem by simply white listing us and of course that might have fixed the problem
for that particular person but we were still being relegated to spam for everybody else on earth
so if you want to fix the problem you have to remain in that state so that you see hey it's still
going to spam that's not right rather than say oh i fixed the problem but i only fixed the problem for
me so in your particular case i would advise keep this thing on so that you see if anybody is uh you
know is using the monarchy against us right do i have to well i mean otherwise people are going to
abuse the system it's unfortunate but uh i mean the the thing is though that it's just gonna give them
a little badge it doesn't do anything it doesn't give them anything are you are you now accepting it
are you now saying it's not so bad i mean i think it's terrible yes it is but now that i now that i
and a lot of other people are opting out of it i think we figured out a workaround you know in the
1700s our forefathers fought against a monarchy and that is everything this country stands for
that is everything around us is because we fought against king george okay to leave the traces of
monarchy in our chat you might as well just dig up their graves now and like you know put a condo over
it it's it's wrong i won't have it and we don't have any damn phone calls either so that proves
something uh 802-321-4225 if you've never called a radio program before you should try it yeah i'm not
sure you'll be doing that today if you call us but uh you'll definitely but if you want to call us
you could also dial 833-755-2600 you could also use your telephone to call anyone else in the world
i mean literally anyone if you have their phone number i mean basically it's this thing it's like
an icon on your phone it comes with your phone you don't have to download it and then you can find this
like other icon for a keypad and then you can just basically use numbers to to use your voice
to go on other parts of the world and then back and then someone there might hear you and then you
you hear them and then yeah and if you speak the same language it might go well so anyway 802-321-4225
i'm sorry i tuned out i always think of castles and uh other things well would i yeah i what would
be the appropriate icons if google is even going to fix this based on your critique i was trying to
think like maybe some kind of benevolent regime regime that basically just does whatever they want
and like consolidates power what what kind of icons would those be like you know let's not let's not
give them any hints as to how they can uh exploit this any further how about like a like oligarchical
ceo like that kind of hierarchy maybe google could implement that like have basically uh like a
turtleneck or some kind of i don't know tech gila when someone opts out of this do they have to opt
out every time they sign in or is it permanent that is an excellent question that i don't know the answer
too the other thing is everything i'm finding online is that the onus is on the user to opt out
there does not appear to be a way for a channel to opt out that's crazy that's just insane
i mean if the google if the monetization could help like a radio station like if a radio station was
using is that what it would how you would do it how in what in what world does that help anybody
what who are they trying to like does everyone necessarily want to monetize what they put on
youtube i don't know i think in like a cutesy way google probably believes that i mean here's the
thing why would you start why wouldn't you say just check this box when we put an alert on the chat
like hey we're doing this new thing hit this box on this ad if i go to the pope's channel okay i guarantee
you there will be an ad from google on there somewhere right they already monetized that and
that means that the pope is opting in to monetizing his youtube channel do you really think he needs to
do that but in the in the eyes of google everybody should be doing this and that's why you won't see
ads on our channel because we specifically opted out of that but not everybody does that not everybody
even knows how to do that and it's just if you don't stand up to this this this awfulness that
google is is spreading around uh it's going to become normal and it's not normal it's it's wrong
most people don't make anything out of those ads they make maybe 50 cents or something it's not worth
it it's it's so not worth it so uh please whenever you can turn that crap off all right is it possible
our ringer is off i have to ask that when we have no phone calls usually we have something
802-321-4225 is our phone number yeah picking up the receiver doesn't say the ringer is off
how does that prove anything just have to know the ringer so we can hear the phone ringing
right it would ring if the ringer is on that's what i'm asking the ringer is it is on here as
well as in other parts of the building okay so we will we should hear it so nobody's calling us
basically 802-321-4225 if you want to call a youtube stream now is your opportunity all right
see now it's working okay you just have to shame people a little bit and then it happens
are you going to pick up the phone okay good yes all right i think there's someone there all
let's hope so good evening you're on off the hook overtime go ahead hello there is a loud
buzzing here but anyway god's sake the buzzing is just never going to leave us is it um if we
touch wires it disappears sometimes when i go to um overtime it um it's very prominent when i go to
channel 300 uh-huh well we don't hear we don't hear it very much right now so if you could muddle
through that would be great yeah you sound fantastic okay i sound good anyway this time
this time unless i forgot the word chat listen no i i don't think it would work but i forgot the
word channel you're still there the buzz went away oh okay i adjusted the the send level so can you
still hear my voice though yes but when you talk the buzz comes back you know i've often said that
about kyle when he talks there's a buzz and uh it happened for you too emmanuel oh i i there's a buzz
attached to me as well wow how about that okay now when i um when this time i went to it i had to um
i had to click on live under the channel otherwise i didn't see where the live stream was
all right well that just sounds like a an interface issue yeah also once in the past i tried
to um to sign up in order to um join the chat and something weird went wrong it got an error it
couldn't explain why and it didn't work we're spending a lot of time talking about youtube chat
uh i'd like to talk about literally anything else okay literally literally and not the hum not the
hum either let's let's put that off yeah okay well um do you yeah it's not easy is it yeah
um anyway yeah so you want to talk about doge sure why not it's a breath of fresh air compared to all
this yeah they're not a department in some sense they're they're um government but only in the sense
that they're associated with the president and they don't promote efficiency so the name is
multiply a lie that's true that's the name is the least of the problems but definitely it's not true
yeah we have to figure out what we're going to do after this is all i mean the thing i wanted to say
on the air earlier is like we're talking about it like oh this we should really get some strongly
worded statements and and well-written letters chuck schumer right yeah exactly i keep going back to
that feeling of powerlessness the truth is we're not but the truth is we're also fucked and i think
that can't be said it can't be said on the air and quite that can't be said on the air but it can
be said on overtime we can also say it to them as well because they're they are fucked yeah we are
angry that's kind of what i meant by it's it is both um bad for people who might be abused by it
under the powers that be but also bad for those that might repurpose it and want to um find other
groups using these kinds of database like when you have it consolidated in this way so it can become
it's really really bad so the the real the most polite way i could think of saying it is it's
it's really bad it's this is all like the stuff i talked about with ad like google itself being
uh based on surveillance capitalism and using personal information like it was bad then
now it's like really bad and it's it's only getting i think more uncertain for the average
consumer who's already got a lot of their information out there and who in many cases
there's swaths of people that just don't they've given up like they don't care and that's the real
um even worse part of it because we should act as though this information's already been
consolidated in this way because they're telling us it has been so i think that's that's why uh we
have to kind of already operate under those terms because if you're in the op in opposition don't want
to get into anybody's political beliefs i know that might not apply to everybody but if you're in
opposition you're then potentially a target not just someone whose um face is being recognized by an
ice agents app using a database like this um that you know includes every american including those
that are here as um part of the naturalization process or legally or seeking asylum or something
like that it's like if you're in opposition to the use of this data that's how it's being used now
and if you're in it you could be a part you it could be used against you if you're not in it oh my
gosh imagine a mistake you're supposed to be but you're not and then your rights your freedom your
liberties are taken away incorrectly what is the cost of that this it needs to be known that organizing
it this way is a liability and so when i say it's bad or like we're you know in other and say with
other terms i it's just what we have to recognize about this it's not to raise panic or to be
shocking but it is truly um it's it's truly already occurring as we pointed out in covering the news
story anyway i'll let let you get back to it so about opposition that should be growing exponentially
with everything they do well and and that is true yeah absolutely that i hope i think that's why the
coverage about these types of transgressions politically motivated transgressions they need
to be uh reported on and even how it's framed like they're framing it as voter vote to um to clamp down
on voter fraud or whatever that is well under the previous system like states had the discretion
to do that so to try to sidestep what authority states have is sort of the antithesis to um the
attitudes of like a libertarian or the the folks concerned with the rights of states so there's a
real push and pull of how this politically different logics that are actually like really hypocritical
to what you would expect from that political regime so we're we're kind of in the face of all of that
having to inform one another and be aware that like that's that's the level of of um questioning the
next elections will be will be subjected to and and so forth like plan it out logically what's the
extent of it act as though this is already out there um in many other cases of like hacking and
breaches we we have to have these attitudes for disaster recovery this is a disaster somehow we're
going to recover i hope i think i think people want that but it's yeah a lot of things are supposed
to be about states rights but it's really only about trump's rights anymore
heard yeah yeah exactly yeah so what about the declaration of independence what what sort of
conditions were they claiming to have occurred when they wrote the declaration of independence
let's toss that one over to alex who's the expert
well there were a lot of grievances with respect to the the declaration of independence and it was
primarily the uh what well i'm having trouble hearing now it's breaking up we can't hear alex on
the phone is that true all right i'll just keep talking here can you hear me now caller is this
i do i don't hear you but you were breaking up before like i heard jolt you know bits of it and not
not continuous speech but now it seems better for now now that's just speaking a steady stream
yeah okay all right speaking a steady stream i'm just going to keep talking right now like this i'm
not going to i'm not going to pause no pauses no commas no semicolons nothing we're just going to
just going to keep this going so there were a lot of grievances with respect to the american
revolution i think that the the one that we often hear about in school right is the fact that there
was taxation without representation right so it was um you know kind of a disenfranchisement of
the colonies as well as uh lots of other things that they thought were tyrannous and so they felt
it necessary to dissolve the political bands which connected us with the united kingdom i think the
first declaration of that in a state um uh in the state house actually might have been today
on july 2nd i'm i'm pretty sure was um with some kind of oral proclamation basically of the fact that
we were declaring independence so yeah uh bravo for bringing that up anything else i couldn't hear
everything you said alex but i i trust that in the archives it will be more audible yes it will be
let's hope so let's hope so sorry about that so i don't know if anyone else was trying to call
because no one called until i did um but i don't know how long i should stay on but i have another
question for alex one more question how do you know how do you know if you get um get a warrant for
someone to to enter your premises how do you know it's legitimate maybe it's not really a warrant
how do you tell that's a that's a really good question so your question if i understand it
correctly is if somebody shows up to your home and presents a warrant that authorizes them to search
and seize anything in your house how do you know that that's a legitimate warrant is that the question
yeah i didn't hear everything you said but i think that was the question
all right okay yeah i mean it's really hard i mean there was really no way to properly authenticate
a document like that on the spot so if you have questions about it you know i think you would want
to call your lawyer first and foremost get the badge numbers of the officers that are present
and then call that agency to verify that those are in fact officers you can and usually a lawyer will
be able to do that for you as well okay we're going to move on thanks for your call yeah hope
someone else calls i don't know if they will i i'm sure they will hopefully they they hear alex and
others all right that's um yeah that's uh that that's challenging 802-321-4225 alex on the subject
of warrants though um you know there's a lot of talk about these ice warrants uh and uh there's
different kinds there's the kind that that ice prints up themselves and there's the kind that
comes from a judge how do you tell the difference um off the top of my head i don't know i mean i
imagine that one of them would be signed by a judge and the other would be signed by an ice official
or something that are just sworn to by some kind of ice official so i would take a look first and
foremost at the signature page of whatever the warrant is well um i guess you look for
how is a judge sign their name usually do they say judge after after their name i mean maybe people
don't know this you know they would yeah i mean uh be part of signature block would say judge or the
honorable or something like that you would you would you would see that and then the heading of the
document too should indicate whether it comes from a court you know in the federal district court for
the western district of alabama or something like that or in the in the united states district court
for the southern district of new york you know for example something like that you would see some
kind of district court reference because the warrants would always issue from a federal court trial judge
so you would want to take a look at something like that that's assuming they even agree to show it to
you in the first place yes that's true they seem to think they're above the law
802-321-4225 yes that's our phone number you could also call 833-755-2600 if you would like to
speak to an after radio program stream you can also leave a question in our
infamous youtube chat um that will be read to us by uh one of our colleagues here i believe there is
a phone call right now i'm going to answer this call uh hello hello do you hear me do you hear me
um yes caller could you turn your microphone down down uh i can do that i can do that but what i'm
doing um basically basically this is a manual uh i'm calling myself to see just how bad this really
is i do hear i do hear the hum i don't hear anybody talking okay well can you can you hear me i hear you
what about what about me this is alex caller is there you're there okay well we can't all talk
at once otherwise won't be able to tell uh first let me talk to the hum that's the loudest and then
uh kyle are you there yeah i was just gonna ask is there a story or a comment you like to make
about something i don't really care about any of that stuff but um let me just point out i do hear a
hum but when kyle talks the hum goes away so kyle say something else well is there like a particular
article we read or something you noticed this week in the news about hacking i have no trouble hearing
kyle now alex could you please say something to me sure i'll do a little poetry for you whose words
these are yeah you're quite low alex you're very low okay could you maybe speak up a little bit
i don't hear anything from alex yeah i think he muted himself oh shit i did this is a problem
i think alex is a full problem here am i a full problem that's okay i need just alex to be speaking
otherwise i can't really judge the situation okay i'm gonna do some robert frost whose woods these
are i think i know his house is in the village though you will not see me stopping you you're hard
to understand alex now i'm gonna ask rob to speak
i hear something from rob so that's i i feel uh i feel unusual my my thumbs have gone weird okay now
i hear rob i didn't hear rob before but now i hear rob pretty clearly yeah he's talking now
he is he wasn't doing that uh angela can you say something my little horse must think it queer
to stop without a farmhouse near between the woods and you sound pretty loud so rob you sound you sound
pretty loud everybody else sounds kind of low um i would rank gila number two and alex number three
all right is it uh is it the darkest evening of the year by any chance
is it the darkest evening of the year is that what you asked it's getting there i did i did ask that
okay uh i don't know i have no idea i don't think so i think we already missed that
see it's funny i hear gila really well yeah you're sitting next to her rob
can somebody give a bell a shake yeah you know i think i think if we got rid of the hum
that would solve the problem the thing that's interesting is that people on youtube are chiming
in and saying they're not hearing the hum yeah and that's the thing to remember they don't hear
the hum and it's it's not in the recording but the person trying to make a point does hear the
hum and it's very distracting
exactly the hum seems to agree with me yeah now i'm i'm i'm making it worse
and kyle you're very loud so i can i can hear you no problem
all right um is that all caller are are you i think that that yeah i think that pretty much
sums up everything um i don't uh need to tell i i can't hear emmanuel so uh he's definitely a problem
okay we will work on turning his microphone back up um i just want to tell our listeners that they
can also call okay that was a little rude sorry my face hit the phone okay um you too or your face
uh could call 802-321-4225 you could also call 833-755-2600 if you've never called a hum before
you might want to try
and alex and i can continue with the next few stanzas of the poem if no one else is calling it
oh i just had an adventure yeah you did you went on an adventure i'm proud of you um
operators are chilling um we do actually have a question from the chat that might provoke some
interesting discussion if that would be a good thing um as long as it doesn't come from anyone who's
crowned the question we have is does anyone have thoughts on cloudflare's new war on ai bot scraping
i think they're seeing an opportunity in the market that's what was the question about an opinion about
it yes uh yeah i i think that is a um a way for them to enhance their services and um yeah we'll see how
they do i think people it's desirable right because there's so much stuff out there we have
a phone call we have a hum call uh good evening you're on off the cover time go ahead hello this
is lou right you're calling from washington dc our nation's capital i heard you last night on
as it happens from cbc what was it like you know interacting with them that was yeah that was pretty
that was part of the other radio station we usb we had a canada day all day long 24 hours uh and
apparently it was my idea uh and uh as it happens called me you know i i was gonna let them know
because i figured they might uh uh be interested in the um uh and and the fact that we were doing
that for those who don't know as it happens it's kind of the equivalent of all things considered
that we have here on npr except it's it's a broadcast on the cbc to all of canada and you
can hear it obviously as a caller is demonstrating here in the united states pretty easily uh but it
was you know it's like listening to their show which is amazingly pleasant and conversational and
just kind of like you know human it was it was like that talking to them and it wasn't just them
i talked to cbc in st john's newfoundland i talked to cbc in montreal and cbc in ottawa and they were all
really really nice and conversational and informed all right um what else
is that all you had i'm not i'm not sure i had a bullet point list of things i had to bring up today
um did you lose it where is it wow where's that where's that list um it's just right over here
okay we'll let you get it okay also today at a garage sale i found a government issued a tape
recorder for blind users it's got tactile buttons you know you can feel what they are
and it's all orange you can and it plugs into mains it's got to be for at least 50 years old 40 50
years old does anybody know anything about it what is it worth i think rob does and this is a good
chance to see if you can hear rob go ahead rob okay well um this sounds a lot like something that
that is from a field i used to work in i used to work in the field of audiobooks for
the visually and reading disabled and they nowadays come on electronic cartridges or direct downloads
but back in the day they came on cassette tapes and records and every audio uh format that we've had
and this might be an interesting piece of equipment because it might run at a non-standard speed
if you have the chance to test some tapes in it and see if you can get weird speeds out of them
that uh you wouldn't get out of a standard uh consumer tape recorder
all right because very often uh they would they would go at very slow speed so you could fit audiobooks
which are very long onto fewer cassettes the quality would suffer but it would be good enough
for a voice reading a book
all right is that all you got to add i'm sorry
is that well oh well yes i mean i guess that's all i pretty much i wanted to add too bad um
not getting any other calls oh oh well well i'm sure we'll get more i i'm not i'm not going to write it
off yeah yeah i usually like to call in later so i can try and critique well you know what it was
we don't have rebel this week rebels traveling to somewhere dangerous
whoops yeah that's what happens he takes up the first 25 minutes of the show so uh
you know it seems like there's more calls than there are
right do you often listen to as it happens sorry sorry i had a question for you go ahead
are you a avid listener of as it happens or did you just happen upon it i'm i listen all the time
it's oh yeah that now you remind now you i remember the other thing i was going to get to get to yeah
i listen to my local npr member's station all the time w amu uh just as uh as it happens there's a
couple of programs down there i find pretty interesting the npr network as a whole pretty interesting
wait so you're saying you actually have an npr station that carries as it happens
yes if you uh on the wikipedia page of as it happens if i remember correctly it says that
they're actually carried on many npr uh stations i know they say that i've just never found an npr
station that carried them but that's good to know that's being carried somewhere mine does w amu
the thing is why you might not have found it is because on mine it's broadcast from 11 to midnight
that's pretty late yeah although they do have the as it happens midnight edition which is broadcast on
cbc at midnight and it's an hour instead of 90 minutes although i'm i'm led to believe that um as
it happens itself has been reduced to an hour for the summer at least mine is an hour right i said
it starts from 11 to 12 full programming but it used to be 90 minutes is my point right the end
actually shows the npr version was always an hour but in canada it's been 90 minutes but i think right
now it's down to 60 minutes and i'm told that's just for the summer right there's some really good
programs on local npr stations that do wrap-ups i think pri public radio international and then also
um i don't know there's some other show i can't remember the name i think it was uh world radio hour
is that the one that is it just called the world or something or there's a couple shows like that but
the world that has snippets from different uh shortwave stations well they're not shortwave
anymore international broadcasting yeah english radio service from different places which i always
enjoyed but yeah when they repackage sometimes you'll get uh as it hop as it happens in one of the
like one of the blocks of radio and it appears as a syndicated program so that's great that you listen
it's one of one of my favorite shows and uh it just has a great um discussion kind of like our calls
with uh callers in overtime here we we get to chat a little bit find out uh what they're all about
what they're thinking about in the world and we can share what we're thinking about uh uh outside of
the the uh stories from from the regular hour on uh the radio so thanks for joining us and and
something else for the caller that you might find interesting you can listen to pretty much any
cbc station in up in canada so if you wanted to say listen to a station in iqaluit uh you could
simply go to cbc.ca and you track down that particular station and you can listen to them
live you can hear as it happens when it airs at 6 30 p.m uh you can also hear them speaking in
inuktitut for local news uh and uh you can do that for any station throughout the country it's really fascinating
all right thank you for that all right no problem thanks for calling yeah take care yeah well yeah
the other thing i wanted to get to as for npr uh you know as expressed as expressed on this show
before you know it's pretty obvious they take ads i mean they call them what is it underwriting
underwriting yeah where they have a little bit that says
you know it's almost like an ad i mean in many cases it is like and it isn't that you know if you
if you use quantitative statements like you know best or or better uh that really fits the definition
of advertising so uh you know i i i have mixed feelings about the way they do things because
they're under attack in a very unfair manner because they have so much good stuff but they also uh
get a little ahead of themselves sometimes when it comes to uh uh you know getting the underwriting
and making it stay underwriting and not turn into an advertisement and also the difference is that
they're a national network it's not the same as wbai you know that is true one station uh community
supported you know maybe not all maybe in some parts of the country uh people are less open-minded and
willing to donate to keep this up i mean if not i'm pretty sure uh as a network they would survive
without donations just as underwriting but you know that's the whole finances i don't know a lot
about this stuff but i'm thinking yeah way too far this is not underwriting it's ads pretty much
well it's still better than the alternative but yeah uh i i agree they should not go down that road
they're the best they're the best out there besides the pacifica networks wpfw which i can
also pick up oh that's right then they play jazz most of the time right yeah i wish it would be nice
to freak if off the hook was on there but there's some wbi programs that are simulcast on
wpfw but i mean yeah i like to talk programming well maybe you could just ask them maybe they'll do it
maybe we'll see all right all right thanks for your call all right and as for canadian musicians
uh shout out to lim pumpo stay popular okay great uh 802-321-4225 is our phone number in the time that
we have left 833-755-2600 is another number yes and that will also reach us not just another random
number it's a number that comes directly to us tell us about hacking tell us what you know tell
us what you're wondering about when you're driving in the middle of kansas and there's no other radio
stations around you find an npr station there's nothing better so just keep that in mind yeah they
could they can improve but so so can every broadcast outlet they can all improve and uh i hope we don't
hang these guys up to dry go ahead rob um i do want to mention while we're waiting for a call this
friday is uh the 2600 meeting um all over the world 2600.com meetings uh our local one in new
york city um is happening at the hue on 53rd and lexington um the food court will be open but the
restaurants won't be just the bar outside so if you want some food bring it with you wait
the food court will be open but there'll be no food correct oh that makes sense yeah sure yeah uh
you can you can bring in whatever you like you're giving permission or they're giving
information it's a public food court they they permission is implicit okay all right good to know
and alex you had something all right yeah i was going to say if we didn't get a call i have a uh
phone number for what looks like a scam paypal paypal legal center here that i got a few hours ago if we
wanted to to call them did rebel tell you to do this because this is what he does every week no no i'm
just curious as to whether this this phone number will still work a couple hours later you're going to
just call a number and hope it works okay we can try that uh but i think we have a call though
right actually we just we have a call yeah we can't you know we have a call that that matters
more you know you have to go to the call yeah there's just no no way around that unless you're
the call i hope you're not the call alex i am not god help you if you're the call good evening
you're on overtime go ahead hi good evening um i was calling because of the discussion about cloud
flare okay um it's interesting that it coincides with one of the most massive or the most massive
ddos against their services uh it was something like 7.3 terabytes a second wow it dwarfed the one that
happened earlier in the year and um chris krebs back in was it 2017 so uh yeah i don't know if the ai
filtering has anything to do with that or not it could does anybody have any info on this
anyone involved no no i i don't i mean i'm not sure look good i i guess the theory there would be
they got hit so hard and perhaps their systems which are designed to withstand a distributed
denial of service attack didn't withstand it as well as it could have perhaps is that the theory and
therefore they're now trying to distract with the this ai thought related news
is that the theory caller um partially at least i mean that seems from looking at some of the larger
network hits over the last couple weeks and um some of the stuff internationally that's been going on
like russia shut off access to a large portion or all of youtube and some other stuff uh tour network
is having problems and and iran network having problems in russia so there's like a lot of stuff going on
and it's uh i guess cloud flares going through it
uh yeah yeah yeah quite quite possibly i mean that they're they're involved in a lot of it right
i mean just as an intermediary in many ways so um but it definitely does allow them to generate i think
a lot of favor with uh you know uh the intellectual property kind of constituencies out there and creators
and um i think that a lot of uh hosts and registrars that are selling domain names are going to have
requests to point them over at cloudflare and then cloudflare is going to be able to strike
so many more deals with these registrars and hosts for their hosting because they've just created this
great demand for it so i think i think it's really just sound business on on their point on their part i'm
not sure if they're trying to deflect from anything
i'm gonna have to listen after this because it was really hard to hear you on the phone i'm sorry
oh terrible what's going on here with the uh you sound great on the stream but so that i don't get the
echo feedback from the live stream and the phone call i'm like not in the room so i'm like
i oh thank you well you can always turn your speakers down on your computer
it doesn't help the phone issue okay but at least it gets it gets rid of that issue but uh you know
we have to do some testing folks and that means doing testing when we're not on the air so you all
have to be around to do the testing and when we reach that state then maybe we can figure out what's
going on here we'll do our best we can yep all of us there's honestly some of it is the inner
operation of some of the networks is having issues the like it's like the actual network and the
backbone all of it is just strained so like the radio show kept having um cut out that was that was bai we
yeah it's it's a weird parallel you know we have the hum here we can't seem to fix we have they have
their stream they can't seem to fix it's like we're all stuck in mud
so many different network components yeah yep anyway thanks for your call uh we're going to try to get
one more in and uh please keep listening despite the challenges thank you good night 802-321-4225
833-755-2600 you have to say that number every time i say the other number don't you
321-4225 866-755-2600 you didn't think i'd know it did you except i said 866 i meant to say 833
833-755-2600 yeah that's it 802-321-4225 10-4
212-279-3400 okay alex if you call that number now what do you get that's our that's bai's old
phone number but you just gave out someone else's phone number so i think you should call from your
phone line and see who is going to be uh dealing with a lot of calls now thanks to you just hold up
the phone to the computer um emmanuel i did have a question for you go ahead from the chat will
will yesterday's um off the wall or equivalent be posted to the website well it's not uh you're
talking about the newfoundland special that uh i did in in that time slot it's not off the wall though
it was part of the canada day celebration on wusb uh that might be made available it's not up to me
uh but if it is we'll let you know where it is um thank you i hope it is because there are so many
good programs on uh throughout the course of the day and it's 24 hours 24 hours of canada canadian
content and i'll tell you something it got it got so much attention in canada i did four different
interviews on cbc stations in canada and not a peep for u.s media and it's not like they weren't made
aware of it they were uh but the way media works here it's not the same as it does up there up there
they pay attention they listen they are interested in the story down here they can't be bothered and
that's really sad really sad did we get a call yes we did we did i was i was finishing my sentence
and now i'm done no i know i'm sorry i just had a yes sorry okay let's let's move on and good
evening you're on off the cover time go ahead yeah yeah you know there really is a uh like a humming
sound so i i could see what the uh previous callers are talking about there's a a weird sound yeah
everyone knows there's a hum uh but you only know if you call you don't hear the hum if you don't
call uh yeah so if you want to experience the hum that's here for a limited time only you have to
call us yeah it's like it's our gift to you yes i guess you could look at i mean it it sounds it sounds
perfect on youtube but once you call in it's really weird the goal is to be perfect on youtube that is the
goal but i just wanted to ask a quick question that i'm going to hang up and listen to the response but
uh i just wanted to ask alex is the legal guy correct we think so uh we think he's legal his
papers seem to be in order he uh the judges all seem to know him so um he's he's definitely an entity
in in the world of law no because i was just wondering what he thinks about the uh diddy uh
verdict today does he have any thoughts on that diddy uh the verdict that happened today oh man you
couldn't shut him up before oh actually i'm i'm really embarrassed to say i didn't even know that
a verdict came down i've been i had my nose to the grind all day today and and literally working
up until the show uh came on so i don't even know what the verdict is what you're not going to get
out of it that easy alex all right let's play along he knows nothing caller do you want to uh tell
them what happened we'll look at it on youtube we're staying away from youtube but um oh he's
gone just like that all right sorry i'm my ignorant about current affairs apparently today so 802-321-4225
that's 833-755-2600 yes that is our phone number um did someone yeah uh gila go ahead okay um we've had
some confusion about the phone number this evening so i just want to because we keep giving out
different phone numbers no not even that um i want to remind people again why it is that we don't leave
the phone number up at all times here is the reason it is for the benefit of our callers we currently have
one phone line and if someone's on the phone you if you call are going to get stuck in voicemail hell
we give out the phone line phone number when the phone line is open however if you need to see it
written down you can check the show's twitter account you can check the show's mastodon account
where the phone number is posted again we don't leave it up at all times because if you keep trying
to call in and you can't get on get through to us you're not going to be listening to what's actually
happening or participating in the chat right so the reason we don't have the phone number up at all
times is for your own benefit please stop asking thank you yeah what the hell is wrong with you stop
asking but you know the thing is like you know when when we have speeches or or scolding that we
have to do we're not taking phone calls then so if you call us while we're doing that you're going
to go to voicemail and some people can't get out so do you want that to happen we do have a call
all right and good evening you're on overtime go ahead i guess that's me uh it certainly would
be and boy are you loud all right well you have a loud hum but you know that already you have a loud
voice how does that feel well your voice comes out pretty loud and and uh through thank you very much
so yes what's on your mind i wanted to do with what you said about the uh so-called um
what do they call them already alzheimer's devouring me but you know the basic ads that public radio
carries thank you i must say that i had this spot in less perilous time but i get really annoyed and i
systematically change the station when they come out with their favorite words the poor it's poor
and i don't hear the rest i find them incredibly annoying and you know why because then they go on
and on this is wnyc which is my local as they call it they go on and on you know they interrupt the
program and they do the fundraiser i mean bai at least with credit only does the fundraisers although
i have my issues with that but that's a different story why are they doing fundraisers and then also
taking corporate money which is not just corporate money you know they're the the the least pleasant
corporate entities that are basically doing a laundromat or their image or cut great prices
because if they had to go to commercial stations the ads would cost them a lot more
that's i just wanted to put those two cents okay good points thank you thanks for your call
we are going to cut it off here because we've been at this an hour now uh and we want to have
alex demonstrate what he was going to do uh but you know just in answer to that last caller um npr has
from what i know three sources of funding and that's uh listener donations which is what the
fundraisers are for uh underwriting from various companies and corporations and then government grants
which is what's under threat right now they're all pretty significant sources of funding
funding so uh it's um you know they could cut back on certain things i suppose um but we don't make
that request of uh other entities that waste a whole lot more money and our money too because
advertising budgets are a huge cost for all kinds of things that we buy and it affects the price that we
pay so do we ever ask ourselves well uh would i pay less for this carton of jello if didn't have to spend
all this money advertising something that people already know exists you know it's um uh it's like
it's like the space program you know we always are saying well they should cut back but we never say
that about the military and they take so much more so just some thoughts to consider now alex you were
going to try something were you not yeah in fact i was i think it might be best if you guys can dial out
now you see uh yeah you're putting us uh in the hot spot here um i can do it but my my speaker phone
on my phone is is not great but we could try it can't be any worse than our hum um and plus kyle's
not in the room so i have no control over the phone okay let me uh let me give this a shot
hang on here what are we calling again it's a it's a pay i don't know if it's still up but it's a
uh fake paypal legal center how do you know it's fake oh because this is an obvious spam kind of
phishing email actually so do you expect to get a human or uh well let's see we're calling
sounds fake
it must be busy no that's a ring a busy signal goes do do do i mean that they're
it's going to go somewhere
it might have transferred but it's going to go somewhere it's going to time out currently unavailable
please leave a message after the time you should try to call back start hit start please hang up or
press the pound key for more options
to accept and set message options press one to replay press two to erase recording deleted
goodbye recording we're to accept and set message options we're to accept and set message options
alex is hacking on the air yeah the um did she say goodbye and you got her back somehow i did yeah i
hit star seven there i was like remember the audix systems from from back yeah if we can figure out
what kind of system this is then we'll own them totally oh totally yeah yeah uh let's try let's try
again let's call them back let's see if maybe somebody just didn't answer
what uh area cut is this 818 l.a that's a valley it's not l.a i i think a beagle answered
yeah there's the beagle again
she gets worked up about call centers she hates these things
uh this would be a remote you are trying to reach is currently unavailable oh well get to the
point where it asks for a password when you have finished please hang up or press the pound key for
more options to accept to accept and set message options press one to to accept and set message
options to to accept and you need to not send it and then hit pound to send now press the pound key
to mark it's high importance press one to return to the previous menu press the star key
to repeat to accept and set message options to replay your dog's telling you the same thing you
got to go back and hit pound oh yeah to do that to accept and set message options you gotta get rid of
that message if you get rid of that message and just hit pound it'll prompt you for a password
record recording deleted okay now i'll hit pound
oh she she hung up on me at that point you're not fast enough look call it again and hit pound
when she starts talking okay let's do it i'm gonna tell these people everything
uh what's going on here okay here we go all right well maybe somebody will answer this time
let's see
you're gonna get a cease and desist from spammers i know
uh i have another number here as well hold on same same hit the pound when i answer
all right hang on hang on let's try one one more why didn't you wait one more ring and hit
pound i'm excited because i found another number and then i i didn't realize if you want to hack
something you have to do it yourself you couldn't complete the call oh please contact your admin
oh shit so that one's done that that number's killed okay can you call back the first one and hit
pound like i asked yes i can do that now we got to sit through all these rings again unless somebody
answers i mean there's there's a there's a there's a possibility here
the person you are trying to reach is currently unavailable hit pound
to accept and send message it's right to the message okay and you've hit star already right
yeah race and rerecord recording deleted hit zero quickly damn
hung up on me but i i got her to stay on for a while before it was uh it was bizarre go ahead
uh someone in the chat said feel like i'm watching kit boga and i said
i said to rob what is kit boga and he didn't know but he did google it for me which thank you
dear and i duck duck goaded excuse me i'm sorry he duck duck goaded my apologies but there's not a
website called let me duck duck go that for you no is there there is actually interesting to the point
anyway it turns out there is a streamer known as kit boga whose whole deal is calling scammers
and using different voices he's a scam baiter um this stuff actually looks pretty awesome so
apparently he's on so youtube alex you heard that you got to stop someone else is doing someone else
is doing this you'll get sued i guess so i guess so yeah i'm just uh the same thing i have another
number here i'm gonna try how do you have all these numbers because i i know what the the messages
are that they're sending and i i get a lot of them in one particular address we couldn't complete
the call please contact your admin yep so this one's dead too so these things go up and down
so quickly who's your admin they're apparently involved yeah my admin i mean the names here are
just unbelievable too like this email is basically saying you know dear value customer this email
confirms that your paypal account was used to pay coinbase for the bitcoin cryptocurrency page uh
purchase you may see this transaction in your account take note of the details here's the invoice number
blah blah blah and and this is a an email from lorenza gooch g-o-l-c-h
lorenza i think i saw that spammer yeah it's a mistake for you to do that alex to use
your paypal for for crypto oh yes there's so many ways can go wrong so i would i would take
that advice seriously yeah so then it says you know you can reach the billing team here uh you
know it's this 818 number to safeguard your paypal account you must act right away we truly apologize
for any inconvenience and value your cooperation norm regards paypal legal system and when did you get
that that that was uh 12 47 p.m today and you waited until now to take care of this very important
situation well i didn't want to call it ahead of time and um and then have them blacklist or blocklist
my number there and um i figured we'd just do it live that's what uh that's what radio is for right
that is what radio is for but yes i did have someone in the chat had a suggestion which is that
you know they're probably working nine to five so we should probably have opened over time with
this phone call because that's five o'clock uh pacific time but why would the scammers work only nine to
five i don't know i mean that's the one legit thing they do what a way to make a living well you call
people in the middle of the night then you get their attention it's a theory we should give it a shot next
time yeah why not what the hell all right folks i think we're going to do it we're going to say
good night is what we're going to do yes oth at 2600.com is our email address any closing thoughts
from anybody else out there also sorry for the anti-climax here with uh with all the phone calls
but we'll we'll try again well it's just like rebel we expect it not to work that's oh how about
reality right where where's their reality crazy huh it's july 4th coming up that's reality right
oh yeah yeah america day yeah we can we can all have a nice think about uh what the observance of
independence day actually means to us and uh how much irony there is in celebrating that right now
well just know that we're going to uh be independent in our thinking and we're going to be
patriotic in our victory yeah it's best i can come up with and hack something yes hack it for america yes
anything else we done we finished thanks everybody to call who called and uh
and uh we will speak to you next week have fun bye