Please hang up and try your call again.
If you need assistance, dial your operator.
Please hang up now.
This is a recording.
The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off.
Oh, I cut myself while shaving.
Now I can't make a cough.
We couldn't get much worse.
But if they could, they would.
Bum Diddly Bom for the best, expect the worst.
I hope that's understood.
Bum Diddly Bom!
Bum Diddly Bom!
We'll be right back.
Off the hook, Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening, joined tonight
by Kyle.
Yo.
And out in Signal Land, we have Rob T. Firefly.
Good evening.
We have Gila.
Good evening.
And we have Alex.
Yes, good morning once again.
Where are you, Alex?
I'm in Sicily still.
I mean, this was last week, but I'm on the other side of it.
Are you coming back or is this it?
Eventually.
I mean, do you think I should?
What's going on over there?
Is there anything I'm missing?
What kind of signal are you using this week?
I don't know how to even describe it.
It's like you've gone back in time or gone off the planet or something.
Is that right?
Okay.
Well, that's great because I tested this beforehand, but there's really no place for me in this
hotel thing to do this show without waking my entire family.
So I'm outside at the pool and it's one o'clock in the morning here.
So hopefully I'm not waking anybody up.
I can't think of a reason why.
Are you using Wi-Fi?
Yeah, I'm using Wi-Fi.
Why would they have Wi-Fi in a pool?
You know, I mean, can't you go into the lobby or something?
You know, a bit more traffic?
No, there is no lobby here.
Yeah.
You're in a hotel with no lobby.
You know, this is getting more interesting by the minute, but we only have an hour.
And this is our special monthly call-in show where we invite listeners to WBAI to call us.
Because I guess it's like what you did at the conference, ask me anything or ask us anything
about the show, about technology, about anything on your mind.
We'll be giving out the phone number in just a little bit.
You can call it now, but you're not going to get us.
There's no point in calling us.
But we'll give out the phone number.
It's not the usual station number.
So just keep that in mind.
I'd like to go over one or two stories and get people's opinions on various things that
are going on on our planet.
Which are kind of interesting.
You know, I don't remember.
I don't know if I've ever called the country of Denmark stupid.
I don't think I've done that.
I've called certain things in Denmark stupid.
They have a machine where you can buy train tickets.
And, you know, there's adult, there's child, and there's dog.
I don't know why I think that's stupid.
But you can go and buy a dog ticket and just that and nothing else.
Okay.
That's just kind of whimsical.
But, okay.
The other dumb thing.
I was on a train once.
And they had this nice modern bathroom in the car with a sliding door and an automatic button.
And a big square button for locking the door.
Which is reachable from outside.
And I didn't think they'd be so stupid as to allow somebody from outside to press the button, have the door closed, and make the bathroom inaccessible for the entire rest of the trip.
But they do.
And hopefully they fix that since I did that once and only once.
No, this is different.
This is different.
Because Denmark is taking the bold step of putting an end to sending and receiving letters in the mail.
And this is supposed to be a big step forward.
Now, you know, we've gone on this show many, many times criticizing powers that be for disconnecting landlines, for removing pay phones, for getting rid of what might be considered old antiquated technology.
But which turn out to be quite valuable when the new technology fails, as it inevitably does.
It's not a criticism of new technology.
Every technology has its failings.
And if you're able to have one technology side by side with another, you've got a strong system.
You know, if you're able to have a library with actual books, as well as digital content, you know, you've got everybody covered.
Nobody's left out.
So, you know, I can't imagine the arrogance of saying, well, people don't need letters anymore.
We're just going to discontinue that.
But sending and receiving letters in Denmark will end in 2026, as its National Postal Service will stop letter deliveries when this year comes to an end.
And I mean, okay, so then what are you for?
What is the Postal Service for if you're going to refuse to deliver letters?
Well, Denmark has had a National Postal Service since, again, get this.
Okay, wait.
Anyone want to guess what year?
Don't look it up.
What year do you think the National Postal Service in Denmark began?
Alex, you start.
Let's see.
1907.
That's a good guess.
That's a very good guess.
Is it?
Okay.
Yes, it is.
That's the first number that came to mind.
Does anyone else want to try and do better?
I would say the 1800s off the top of my head.
Oh, you're going even further back.
Okay.
All right.
Gila, anything, any guess?
I'm going to bring it a little closer.
How about 1922?
Okay, a respectable guess.
How about you, Kyle?
1466.
Oh, come on.
Be serious.
I don't know.
There weren't even people then.
What are you talking about?
Come on.
15th century?
Yeah, prove it.
Okay, fine.
Give me a year.
I'll go 1780.
Oh, boy.
Okay, no.
Try 1624.
That's when the Postal Service began.
1624.
And they want to end it now because we're digital.
We don't need this anymore.
Yeah, the current state-run postal service, PostNord, says that due to a 90% drop-off in
letter volume since the year 2000, it's going to put this to an end.
You know, if something drops off 90%, you just adjust.
You change your workflow.
You do other things.
I mean, are they just going to fire everybody and shut their doors?
They say we'll continue to deliver letters throughout the year before delivering the last
letters at the turn of the year in 2026.
That's according to CEO Kim Pedersen.
PostNord will begin to remove Denmark's current 1,500 red mailboxes starting in June.
Wait a minute.
Why am I seeing this now?
This article literally just came out, and it actually is dated in June.
That's the thing with Google News.
They suddenly decide a story is relevant.
Well, it is relevant, but it's an old story, and I didn't see it until now.
Well, it just came out.
Now, letters can continue to be received and sent, however.
That's according to Transport Minister Thomas Danielson, who says a free market for both
letters and parcels will remain in place.
It's a...
Okay, wait.
I don't say exactly how.
Apparently...
Okay.
Later in the story, they say that the distribution company Dow will take over the remainder of
the letter services in 2026, and those looking to send a letter will need to drop it off
at one of the Dow shop outlets.
So, basically, it's becoming privatized, and you have to track down this company's offices
or kiosks or whatever they have.
But, you know, they...
This is for letters.
Now, they say 271,000 Danes still rely on physical mail, especially for medical correspondence.
Now, I don't know if the medical correspondence qualifies as a letter, or if somehow the post
office is...
I mean, they must be around for some reason.
Maybe they will plow through all the mail that they get, throw out the letters, and just
deliver the bills and the medical correspondence.
But what if somebody inserts a note?
You know, what if somebody writes a letter and puts it in a bill?
You know, is that illegal now?
Well, it's a super sad day, said PostNord employee Anders Rown Mikkelsen, not just for our department
with 20 to 30 people, which is closing down at the end of the year.
It's for 1,500 people who will face an uncertain future.
So, the people losing their jobs.
Actually, 1,500 mailboxes, too.
I guess one person for every mailbox.
This is dumb.
This is just stupid.
There is no reason to shut down an entire service because less people are using it.
It's still important.
It's still vital.
What if I want to write a letter to somebody who doesn't have an online presence, who happens
to be in Denmark?
I can't do that anymore?
There's just no way to reach them?
Don't people live outside of technology?
Don't we take pride in that sometimes?
Yet there's a mailbox in town?
Those days are over.
Gila?
So, it's interesting, Emmanuel, because I found a story on this from March, and I think
that what has really caused this to happen was a lot of privatization, and also, apparently
there was a Postal Act last year, opened up the letter market to competition from private
firms, and mail is no longer exempted from that.
So, currently, to mail a letter in Denmark costs 29 krona, which is $4.20.
It costs $4.20 to mail a letter?
Uh-huh.
I mean, I know things are expensive in Scandinavia, but that seems a little insane.
It's $29 krona for a letter, and because of the loss of the VAT exemption, which is fascinating
to me right now, as we're dealing with watching the de minimis exemption ending, and how that
is affecting Postal Service around the world, and people not being willing to send mail to
the U.S. anymore.
Alex, go ahead.
I'm going to take the other side of this.
I don't necessarily think it's such a bad idea, and also, based on Gila's relevant information
here, I think, that it costs basically a little over $4 to send a mail, a piece of mail here,
I actually think maybe they're onto something over there in Denmark, because every single
day, when I come home from the office, and I go to my apartment in New York, and I open
up the mailbox, I see what was basically just a ton of crap sitting in a mailbox.
It's all junk mail.
It's, and politicians have used the mail privileges that they have.
I get untold amounts of mail from my idiot city council member, who's just like constantly
sending mail.
I get untold amounts of mail, not only for me, but for other residents of my apartment
that haven't been there for at least 20 years, from my local assemblywoman.
And, and the rest of it is mostly just crap junk mail.
And I feel like these poor mail carriers, here they are just delivering this crap into
people's mailboxes every day.
95 to probably 98% of it is completely irrelevant junk mail.
That's advertisements.
Do they feel like they have any meaning left in their job?
Okay, hold on a second.
I got, I got, okay, I held my breath for a while here, but you're saying this is a good
thing for the postal workers who are going to lose their jobs because they feel irrelevant
carrying junk mail.
First of all, this isn't about junk mail.
This is about, this is about actual letters.
I, you know, the junk is going to get through to you one way or another.
Believe me, they have a plan for that.
This is about people like, like you and me sending letters to other people out there.
You won't be able to do that unless you go through a private company.
Like $4 and 20 cents is an insane amount to spend to mail a letter.
And if that's what privatization gets you, well, that's a big argument against it.
Yeah, I'm not saying that this is a great thing for the postal workers of Denmark.
Obviously it's not, but I, what I'm, what I'm saying is I think it's better for the mail
in general to have a higher cost per letter because that will decrease the incidence or the
incident rate of junk mail being sent.
If it costs more money, look, if it costs $4 to send a piece of mail, you have to be
very judicious with the types of mail that you send.
Well, I think there are going to be some interesting implications of this too, though.
I mean, are you still going to be able to use mail for some kind of legal service of process,
perhaps over in Denmark?
Or, you know, if you have to go through this private company, you know, what about other
types of mail?
What about registered mail?
What about return receipt mail?
What about certified mail?
You know, what's going on over there?
Well, those are the questions.
Those are the questions people are asking.
And it's, you know, are they going to discriminate against personal mail?
Look, I guarantee you that junk mail people are not spending $4.20 per piece of junk mail.
They have special discounted rates, and that is, you know, considered a priority these days
in many circles, which is very, very unfortunate.
Cut that out.
Definitely.
I'm not hearing that.
I'm hearing that just letters are basically banned.
You have to go through a private company to do that.
And, you know, we're talking about Denmark now.
We'll be talking about the United States in the very near future.
Mark my words.
Go ahead, Rob.
Yeah.
I mean, for comparison, the current price of a stamp for a letter in the United States
starts at $0.78 for a regular standard letter.
And even that can be a lot for certain people.
There are still many circumstances in which many people need access to paper mail.
There are, you know, it's not just birthday cards for grandma, although that's great,
and grandma deserves a birthday card.
Why are you saying she doesn't?
But also, there are people who are still paying bills by mail.
You know, in the year 2025, I still have to pay my rent by mailing a check.
You know, not everything can be done electronically.
And for people without access to the internet, that goes for every bill they have to pay.
And, you know, they have to pay $4 and change to mail a check.
What are the private companies going to bump that up to?
This has potential to seriously affect people's real lives.
Birthday cards, Christmas cards, all of that you won't be able to send anymore because they're physical.
And all of a sudden, I mean, the greeting card industry, not that I ever really spoke up for them before,
but boy, they're going to take a hit from this.
Yeah, it's serious now, isn't it?
I think, Alex, you see that.
No, I still maintain.
I think they're onto something good here.
I think the mail is mostly crap these days.
I think it's better to have a higher rate per piece of mail, you know, in terms of charges,
because I think that will decrease the amount of junk mail that's sent.
And there'll be a better signal-to-noise ratio, I think, if mail is more expensive.
Your solution is every time something turns to crap, we raise the price so that it's unreachable for everybody,
mostly the people who are victims of this, though.
No, I think we have to see what regular mail is, you know, see it for what it is, rather.
I think it's a deprecated piece of technology that is mostly used for sending spam.
And we need a spam filter, and maybe this is an effective spam filter.
I work for a magazine, and we have several post office boxes.
To this day, I mean, we don't get the same amount of mail as we used to get decades ago, sure.
But we get mail every day.
And oftentimes, it's handwritten mail.
Oftentimes, it's articles or requests for sample copies or subscriptions.
Or letters from prisoners, you know, people who don't have any other way of sending mail out.
To cut that off would be devastating to so many people.
And you probably wouldn't hear about it because these are people that you don't hear from.
You know, they don't have a voice.
They don't get listened to.
And I think the same thing is probably happening in any other country that takes this bad step, I think.
Gila, go ahead.
Alex, I can only hope that you're just, you know, being contrarian because it's late at night where you are.
Um, this scares me to the marrow, honestly, because if this is what privatization reeks with a W.
And I'm sitting here, and a lot of my work is still conducted via the mail.
Because there are pieces of things that we're not going to send electronically.
There are things that people need to hold on to for their records.
And, you know, I get a lot of junk mail, so the post office should go away is sort of akin to a lot of cars honk, so there shouldn't be roads.
And it seems a little excessive to me to jump to point B.
Kyle?
I just really like the reach, the overall reach of it.
The idea that you could connect with someone and send a parcel or a letter really to anywhere, and having that limited in some way, doesn't make me feel very comfortable.
And I think, like we've talked about, there's plenty of other people and circumstances where it is an option.
And that's the other thing I don't like necessarily, um, thinking about it as something that would go away or be, be sort of whittled down by privatization, is that you have a multitude of modes of communication.
And as Gia just pointed out, um, the, the ability to, um, have that mode is vital in some cases.
And people, I don't know, people would be, I think, worse off if we embrace this.
Yeah, the concept of pen pals would evaporate, you know.
I think, you know, the way to protest this is for everybody to start writing letters.
And just, let's gather every Danish address we can find, and just, you know, start reaching out and sending all these letters.
And hopefully they will respond, and more letters will be sent.
And maybe the price will go down.
I don't know.
The whole thing is just a conversation we really shouldn't be having in the first place.
But that's where we are.
And I, again, I think it's coming here at some point.
Okay, I said I wanted to talk about a couple of stories, but, uh, we're eating into the, uh, caller's time.
So, uh, let's, um, give out the phone number, uh, which, uh, again, note, um, note the, uh, non-WBAI phone number that we're giving out.
And this is for people listening on the radio right now.
I, I mean, we take phone calls every week on overtime on the internet, but we're not doing overtime this week.
We'd like to hear from people who are listening to the actual radio, uh, at 99.5 FM.
You know, we know you're out there.
Phone number, uh, is 802-321-4225.
Did I get that right?
That's correct, right?
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
So, 802-321-HACK is our telephone number, uh, and, um, we have connected the, uh, the phone lines, and we're waiting for them to, to ring.
Are they, are they good, Kyle?
Um, yeah, there might be a cable change, so just...
Okay, there it goes right now.
We have a call.
This could be rough.
Okay, well, let's, let's, let's try this.
You don't have to be too strict.
Okay, let's, let's pick that up.
Uh, we have had a history of a hum on this phone line.
Uh, sometimes it takes a little while to iron it out.
So, if you complain about the hum, we're going to move on to the next call because we're sick of hearing about it.
We're trying, doing the best we can.
All right.
And, um, I don't hear a hum, so let's, uh, let's, let's start with our first call.
Good evening.
You're on off the hook.
Go ahead.
There's nobody there, Kyle.
It's not connected.
It's not connected at all.
Let's try that again.
Give us a dial tone.
No, there's nothing here.
You've disconnected the entire thing.
Uh, yeah, we didn't.
So, there we go.
We didn't touch it since last week.
I wish, sorry, caller.
I had to switch the wrong way.
You had to switch the wrong way, and somebody lost their connection as a result.
So, 802-321-4225.
Hopefully, we get the same person again.
Um, and, um, Kyle sends his regrets.
I think I will, did.
I, I, I gotta be positive about this.
All right.
This call's gonna be great.
If you call in, we'll pick up and listen to you.
Yeah, yeah.
Um, anyone have anything to fill the time while we wait for that phone to ring again?
Go ahead, Rob.
Well, while we wait, I will mention that Denmark is on the list of the dozens and dozens of
countries which have announced suspension of parcel deliveries, package deliveries to
the United States because of, uh, all the sort of everything that's going on right now
in the, um, field of international trade.
So, you know, if that stays in place, there'll be no way for Denmark to send us anything, really.
They just seem to not like mail lately.
I'm not really sure why.
I understand why, why, uh, countries don't want to send things to the States at this,
at this time, uh, but to shut down the entire service.
And I still haven't gotten an answer as to what exactly is going to happen to, uh, their
post office if they, if they stop delivering, uh, letters.
But, uh, that's, that's their problem to work out, I guess.
Okay, we have a phone call?
Maybe.
Okay, let's, let's hope this works out.
Yeah, there's somebody there.
Good evening.
You're on, off the hook.
Go ahead.
Not really.
I understand why, why are you?
Hello?
Yes, please turn us down and turn yourself up.
Go ahead.
Are you there?
Yes, we're here.
You're, you're on the air.
Oh, yeah, sorry.
It's, it's very, it's very, it's very soft.
I just, uh, wanted to say that, um, you know, regarding that, uh, postal, the post, the argument
about, you know, raising postal rates to get rid of, like, all the junk mail.
I mean, a lot of those junk mail things are large corporations.
They're just going to start, like, passing that cost on to their customers or to their,
um, or just eating it.
And it's not really going to do much, like, you know, all the, all the companies, you
know, that make money off this are big, rich companies that can do it.
And, uh, that can, that can eat that cost or pay for it.
And, you know, it, it will be different than, you know, the rest of, it'll be different
than the rest of people here for, like, it'll be different for, like, all the people want
to send letters or whatever.
Like, they can't eat that cost, but companies can.
Exactly.
Yeah.
So the junk mail will get through, but the individual letters won't.
Right.
Yeah.
I, I, I agree with that.
I agree with that.
Uh, anything else?
Yeah.
Hmm?
Anything else?
Okay.
I guess I, hang on a second.
It's really hard to hear.
Give me a second.
Okay.
Yeah.
It sounds like a lot of noise in the background there.
I don't know where they're calling from.
Sorry.
Um, how's this?
That's much better.
Uh, we were just asking if you had anything else before we move on to the next call.
Uh, oh yeah, no, no, that's it.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Take care.
Uh, 802-321-4225.
And, uh, yeah, that's, uh, that's our phone number.
And we're taking calls from BAI listeners, uh, who, uh, listen to this terrific radio
station at 99.5 FM in New York City.
Please, please support WBAI because, uh, in the darkness that we're all facing where
vital services are being cut one after another, uh, and, and all kinds of fear and terror are
existing in our society.
Uh, you need a voice like WBAI just to instill calmness and resistance.
You can support us by, uh, going to buddy.wbai.org and pledging whatever you can afford on a
monthly basis and keeping us going.
Um, give to WBAI.org also is another possible website to go to.
Um, but please, uh, keep, uh, keep stations like this on the air.
They are targeted by, uh, all kinds of people who are afraid of voices that don't say what
they say.
Oh, you have another phone call?
Good evening.
You're on off the hook.
Go ahead.
Hello.
Yes, go ahead.
I'm on the air.
You're on the air.
Can you hear me?
Yes, go ahead, please.
You're on the air.
I'm on the air.
I'm on the air.
Okay, I don't know what the, what the issue is.
Can people hear me?
I don't know if people can hear me, but, um, this hasn't been a problem before.
Please call back 802-321-4225 and, uh, I'll, I'll shout if I have to.
And good evening.
You're on off the hook.
Go ahead.
Hello.
Is anybody there?
Can you hear me?
Okay.
I don't know.
This is a strong argument for not having phones anymore.
Uh, if we can't master a phone call, 802-321-4225.
Is that the same number calling us over and over?
Okay.
Well, let's try it one more time.
Okay.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
This is your last chance.
Go ahead.
Speak up, please.
Okay.
We're not going to take any more phone calls from that phone number because I don't know
they have a problem on their end.
It's, uh, definitely affecting us.
Okay.
If we can take a, you know, another phone call, I'd be really, really happy.
802-321-4225.
If it's that number again, hang up the phone because we don't want to have this charade going
all night long.
Good Lord.
All it takes is one, isn't it?
Yep.
Well, I...
Literally, nobody has anything to say.
Oh, I thought we were waiting for the, for the caller to say something, but...
There is no caller.
That's the theme of the show right now.
That was the same caller.
Okay.
Just, this is great.
Well, look, I think we, you know, we are seemingly enamored with all these deprecated technological
protocols here, but, you know, I, I think to respond to our last caller that actually did
have something to say, I don't necessarily think in this particular situation, this is
something that could be entirely passed on to the consumer.
I think we like to always rely on that type of argument to say, oh, well, you know, we
shouldn't increase costs because it's going to be passed on the consumer.
The consumer is going to bear it.
The consumer is going to do, everything's going to affect the consumer.
It seems to be like this catch-all argument.
I don't think in this particular situation, it makes sense if we are going to disband mail
entirely.
I, I, I do kind of like this idea.
And I, I would like to, all of you to think about the percentage of junk mail that you
have in your mailbox every single day.
And like good lefties that you are, you have to think about the environmental impact of all
of this junk mail and the environmental impact of having to carry all that junk mail.
And then the environmental impact of having to throw out all this junk mail, most of which
probably is not actually recyclable.
So, I mean, let's think about it from that perspective.
If we decrease the incident rate of junk mail and increase the signal rate of actually receiving
meaningful substantive mail that comes into your mailbox, I think that will be good for
mail in the end.
So, I'm not saying do away with mail entirely.
I'm saying let's make mail more difficult to send so that we actually have better mail
on a more regular basis.
Okay.
Now, you know, my response to that, first of all, Rob, was that you that tied up the phone
line for a good two minutes and then hung up?
I think it was because we see you on the phone.
And as soon as you hung up, we got an off hook tone.
Okay.
It was indeed me.
I thought I'd help test it.
This is not you so that we can actually take a real phone call.
This is not me.
This is the same person calling.
Okay.
You know, we're not going to take phone calls then if this is how people are or how one
person is.
Yeah.
You can defeat the whole thing very easily.
I guess that's the point here.
So, as far as your point, Alex, you know, I think this is solved by simply increasing the
price for junk mail, decreasing the price for personal mail.
So, maybe we try that.
All right.
We have another phone call, Kyle?
Okay.
We have an actual phone call.
Good evening.
You're on off the hook.
Can you hear me?
Can't hear.
You can hear or you can't hear?
Hello?
Hello?
Can you hear me?
Can we try that?
Okay.
I don't know what's going on.
Yes.
I'm trying to talk on WBAI, but somebody keeps answering the phone and saying, I don't
know what I'm doing.
Who's doing that?
Yes.
I can hear you.
Should I call?
Should I?
Yes.
Okay.
You know what's going on, Kyle?
They're getting the pre-delay feed somehow.
Yeah.
That's what's happening.
If they're hearing me, they're hearing me in the past.
So, something with the delay is happening where they're getting the signal before it gets
processed.
She was answering me for something I said before.
I'm terribly sorry, folks.
I don't know how this keeps happening to us.
It's almost like somebody comes in and scrambles the wires.
You're shaking your head.
What?
No, it's not set up that way.
Yeah.
Can I talk and respond to whether I think...
Can you hear me?
Can you hear us at all?
I can hear you very faintly.
Very faintly.
Okay.
That's right.
Should I disconnect the phone call and talk?
No, please.
And talk?
No, just say your piece.
Go ahead.
Yes?
Go ahead and talk.
Can you hear me now?
Oh, my God.
Go ahead and talk, please.
Okay.
Well, I think that doing away with personal mail is a terrible affront to creativity, to
education.
The idea of reading and writing is so...
What will we do?
No more books?
Does that mean we won't have books?
If we can't read, why would we have books?
And if we can't...
You know, I think letters are very important, especially for young people, where they get
the idea of being in contact with other people through writing.
This is...
It stimulates the brain.
I think it's...
And I don't want other people who ever may have access to some other approach to...
Instead of mail, I don't want other people reading my internet.
Intimate thoughts.
This is absurd.
I mean, they're doing away with everything that is intimate and educational and enjoyable.
And I think that reading is very important to the soul.
It's very important for educational purposes.
It's enlightening.
It's enlightenment.
So that's what I think.
I was a teacher, and I was a professor, and I think that this would be horrible.
Okay, that's...
Those are my thoughts.
Well, thank you for your thoughts.
You probably can't hear me, but I'm thanking you anyway.
But I can hear you, but...
Oh, okay.
Now you can hear me.
But we definitely should clamp down on junk mail.
The repetition of men insisting.
It is abhorrent.
It's absurd.
And it's vile.
And it's annoying.
But I just tear it to pieces.
And it's ridiculous.
It's just capitalists wanting to make more and more money and taking away the good things in our world.
Those are my final thoughts.
Well, we need more people like you speaking out.
Thank you for your thoughts.
Thank you.
Bye-bye.
Bye.
Okay, how is it the caller could hear me at one point but not at the other?
And you didn't touch anything, Kyle.
I turned up...
Hang on.
What happened?
I turned up the level that we're sending at.
I turned up...
Yeah, please do that.
Everyone's complaining about it.
I'm actively doing things here.
Okay, well, we're responding.
All right, another phone call is coming in, and hopefully we have all the issues repaired before we have to go.
Good evening.
You're on...
Off the hook.
Go ahead.
Yeah, please do that.
Please turn us down.
We don't want to hear ourselves.
We want to hear you.
Can you hear me?
Please turn down your radio.
You're on...
Off the hook.
Oh, my God.
Okay, you know, we can't talk to people who keep the radio on.
It's ridiculous.
You know, call-in shows are not new.
This has been going on for a long time.
We should have this down by now.
802-321-4225.
Okay, a few words of advice here, since apparently I have to give these out.
Turn down your radio, because we're on delay, and that means that what you hear through the radio is not going to be the same as what you hear on the phone.
It's going to be a delay.
It's going to confuse everybody and waste a lot of time.
All right, number two.
You might have some difficulty hearing us, although we turned up the volume, so maybe you won't.
I haven't heard any hum this year, this evening.
Don't say that yet.
And we have another phone call?
Yeah, let's try.
Good evening.
You're on.
Off the hook.
Go ahead.
Speak up.
Is anyone there?
No one's there.
Hello?
Oh, this is just a dream come true.
802-321-4225.
You know, we have the ability to block certain numbers.
We can do that if this turns into a real issue.
We're going to try this again?
802-321-4225.
What are you doing, Kyle?
I asked you to pick it up when you're unplugging the phone.
What's going on?
Can you pick up the phone, please?
We only have a few minutes left.
Good evening.
You're on.
Off the hook.
Speak up.
Okay, so this is the person that keeps hanging up.
All right.
I don't know what to do, folks.
Go ahead, Alex.
Well, I just have a suggestion that in the meantime,
if we're having such difficulty with the phone,
why don't we read some physical listener mail that's been sent in,
if you have any of that handy.
Go ahead.
Oh, you were just giving me homework.
Mark, I'm up to my neck in technical issues, Alex.
If you're going to suggest something, follow through with it, for God's sake.
Yes, well, physical listener mail.
I'm making the point that there was none sent, very likely, right?
That we're romanticizing this whole issue of why it's so important to have mail,
and we need to send mail over and over again.
We don't, no.
We don't have physical mail for the radio show.
We have an email address.
That's true.
Not everything.
That doesn't prove anything.
We've never done it that way.
Okay.
All right.
Well, I hope that we can get some phone calls here.
Well, no, Kyle's got the phone off the hook,
so I don't see how we're going to get any phone calls.
Will you hang up the phone, please?
No, there's someone on the line.
Oh, there is.
You didn't tell me.
Good evening.
You're on off the hook.
Go ahead, please.
All right.
Please go ahead and speak.
Okay, I'm done.
I'm done.
No more calls.
You know, either everyone has lost their minds
or our technology is just completely destroyed.
This used to work so well.
This used to work really well.
We didn't do anything.
I don't know what the problem is,
but I'm going to have to be convinced to do this again.
All right.
So in the...
We have a call.
We have a call.
Really?
Why are you doing this to me, Kyle?
Why are you doing this?
Another call?
Yeah, but the hum might be back.
Let's just...
How do you know the hum would be back?
Okay, well, you know what?
I'll welcome the hum.
Good evening.
You're on off the hook.
Yes, go ahead.
Can you hear me?
Yes, we can hear you now.
Come in from outer space.
Okay, you're not doing much to make me want to stay connected.
What's on your mind?
Okay, but anyway...
Okay, that is not us.
I don't know what you're doing with your phone,
but that is not us.
Okay.
It's not you?
Look, please maintain a good connection to your microphone on your phone,
and we can hear you, I think.
What's on your mind?
Okay.
Oh, Lord.
I'm just saying, I don't know who the idea that privatization is going to help the people.
I don't understand that.
I mean, that whole concept should have been debunked a long time ago.
Privatizing the prisons, privatizing everything, you know,
and it does us no good.
It just costs more money, and it gets all funneled for one person,
and everybody else gets the shaft.
But for someone who has a radio show called Off the Hook,
it's quite ironic that you can't keep a phone call going.
Don't you think?
Well, yeah, it's funny, but, I mean, I'm doing everything I'm supposed to do.
I don't know what the issue with technology is.
I'll take the blame.
I mean, I was trying a new cable to get rid of the hum.
Obviously, you can see that the hum came back, but I'm just...
The hum's not bad.
We're not supposed to be talking about the hum.
No, I...
Did I mention...
Oh, man.
No, I mentioned it.
Okay.
Anything else, caller?
Yeah, what else are we talking...
No, but just have a good one.
Keep on trying to get those phone calls through.
All right.
Thanks for the call.
We appreciate the support.
Take care.
Wow.
Was that the caller who was always hanging up on us,
or was that somebody else?
That's somebody else.
Okay, all right.
I was going to forgive that person, but I guess...
A good citizen.
All right.
802-321-4225.
Please, Kyle, no more cable swaps or changes or anything.
I won't until next week or the next time...
Next month.
Now the calls are coming in, so what do we got?
Oh, this...
This is the person that had kept calling.
You want to try them with the hum?
We'll try them one more time.
All right.
Good evening.
This is your last chance.
Go ahead.
Good evening.
Can you hear me okay?
Yes.
You've been calling on it a lot of times, right?
In the middle of the radio?
Wow.
I feel like I won the lottery.
It's very frustrating trying to get in, but I did it.
I have a question.
It's phone-related.
I don't know what I can do about it.
Maybe if...
I get...
Every morning, maybe all through the day, in fact, I get constant bombarding of calls,
and they're all...
I think it's run by one single bot.
But here's what happens.
Let's say at 10.01 today, in the morning, I got a call from...
The name sounds like a real name, Jack Star, something like that, with a 2-1-2 number.
A few minutes later, at 10.52 a.m., I get a call from somebody else with a real-sounding
name.
2-1-2 again.
I can give the next several numbers.
It doesn't sound like a real exchange, but they're all 2-1-2.
And this morning, this afternoon, I got a call from Vince McCaffrey, 2-1-2-6-0-0.
You don't have to give the whole number, but yeah.
Yeah, I'm sorry.
So what happened?
Well, I'm not invading anybody's privacy, because I don't think we...
I call a number right after...
I call it back, and they say, this number, it's not working, something like that.
It's no good.
They're all bots.
And I think it's all from the same program.
Whatever runs these, they make up, they generate fictitious names or real names, and match
them up to phone numbers with a 2-1-2 area code.
I think it's spooking the numbers, though.
So I don't know who to contact, or it's really...
I don't know if anybody else has experienced this, but this is going on for a couple of months
now with me.
Well, the least you can do is register with Do Not Call, Do Not Call Registry, so that if
somebody does that to you, they're breaking the law, and if they're found out, they have
to pay a fine.
You don't get the fine, unfortunately, but at least they have to pay something.
This actually happened to me not too long ago, where I was called to testify over the
phone, basically, as to what exactly happened.
And sometimes it results in somebody being stopped.
The other thing is just don't pick up the phone.
If you don't recognize the number, let it go to voicemail, then call back if it's something
that you want to follow up on.
Yeah, I think it's almost a universal problem, I would think.
But whom would I contact?
There's no way to do that.
Well, I don't have the Do Not Call Registry info.
Rob, do you have that?
Not in front of me, but I actually have a funny story.
Just today, I answered a phone call, and it was one of these robocall scam things offering
tax relief, and it was an AI voice.
You can tell it's an AI voice, because they don't breathe.
They just talk.
And the voice introduced itself, hi, my name is, and then said, my name.
And that made me laugh a lot, because either someone misconfigured a bot somewhere, or there
was an amazing coincidence, and they just happened to pick my actual name to introduce themselves
as, and I'm not about to take tax advice from someone pretending to be me.
But yeah, the thing with the area codes is robocalls, telemarketers, scammers have long
been able to put whatever they want on your caller ID, and they will generally do the same
area code of the phone number they're calling, your phone, to seem like there's something
local and reasonable.
And a lot of people will maybe trust a number in their own area code more than a number in
a strange one.
And so it's all part of how they try and manipulate you.
Were you able to hear that okay?
Yes, there is a hum.
I can hear it, though.
I'm working on it.
I'm working on it.
There's one other thing related to that.
Now I forgot what it was.
Oh, well.
I did try calling one of those numbers once or twice.
And they seem to be directing people, if they do answer, and if it's a real voice, they're
still trying to get people to sign up to Medicare Advantage, believe it or not.
They're still trying.
It's a massive blitz in all kinds of media.
That's right.
And that's what I find also very common.
Well, many times, I mean, if it's not a scam at the number you're calling, many times they
will fake the caller ID.
That's how they get you to pick up, because sometimes you do recognize a phone number,
except it's not actually coming from that phone number.
Right.
But do any of these names have real people attached to them, or is it all robo?
Well, you know, it's hard to say.
They might be latching onto the actual name attached to the number they're spoofing.
They might just be making up a name.
There's really no way to tell as far as that goes.
Like today, I got an active auto repair.
Yeah, the thing is to not let it disrupt your day.
You know, start with that, and then you can try to bring them down.
Yeah, I would turn my ringer off, but it doesn't have that function on my buy-in.
All right, well, I don't want to keep anybody from getting in and getting it, but thank you.
Okay, thanks for your call.
Take care.
Thank you.
All right.
Now, Kyle, just out of a point of information, was that the number that kept calling us over
and over?
It was, yeah.
Interesting.
So I condemned that person, but they were actually a really good call.
See, that, folks, that's the lesson here, is to not jump to assumptions, because there
was a technical problem.
I got mad, and I said that person is the problem.
I do take a response.
That wasn't the problem.
Kyle is the problem.
Wow, yeah.
I think that's about all you need to say.
And it's a problem that you're not picking up the phone.
Do we have another phone call?
Yes.
All right.
Good evening.
You're on off the hook.
Go ahead.
Kyle.
Go ahead.
Please turn down your radio.
Is anyone there?
Yes.
Hello?
Hi.
You're on the air.
Go ahead.
Okay.
It's Pete from Queens.
Hi, Pete.
First of all, this guy is the president of the United States, right?
He can't get a makeup artist to fix his hand up?
Like, what is this?
Is this, like, a joke he's doing?
What are you talking about?
Like, he wants people to think he's going to die?
Wait, what are you talking about?
I have no idea what you're talking about.
So, his hand, right?
Trump's hand.
Like, he had it, like, painted, like, white as a ghost when he's orange.
When did this happen?
Like, he's obviously trying to...
What?
When did this happen?
I didn't see this.
Was it, like, this week or something?
Really?
Okay.
He had, like, bruising on his hands.
They're saying he's going to die in six months, right?
But, like, he's, like, the worst makeup job.
Like, he's got so many people under him.
He can't get a halfway decent person to do his makeup?
Well, he can't get halfway decent people, period.
So, I'm not surprised that makeup people will be boycotting him as well.
But that's interesting.
I didn't know about this.
That's, uh, wow.
Okay.
Well, we don't have the answers on that, for sure.
Oh.
I really can't hear you guys.
It's really dope.
The other thing I wanted to say was, uh, you remember Netflix?
Like, the beginning?
That was the cheapest way to send four gigabytes of data is through the mail.
And I think we're probably going to lose the post office pretty soon, because if they start locking down the networks and trying to get rid of VPNs so people can't communicate, they're going to get rid of the mail so we can't communicate in any way other than, like, face-to-face.
That, um, that sounds dangerous.
That sounds, um, kind of sad.
Yeah.
All right.
Well, thank you for your phone call.
All right.
Thanks, man.
Oh, also, it's so clear.
It's so clear.
Thanks.
Good night.
Okay, thank you.
What do you mean by that?
What's so clear?
After all this, he's saying we're clear?
I don't think we're clear.
802-321-4225.
Yeah, we're playing music.
We're playing music, but we can also take a phone call.
We can do both things at once.
We can do everything at once.
Rob, we can talk to you, too.
And also to address the do not call issue, that's do not call.gov to access the do not call registry.
Oh, thank you for that.
That's very important.
All right.
We're in on the phone call.
Good evening.
You're on off the hook.
Go ahead.
Howdy.
Um, all right, so I know you guys, I'm just curious.
Has there been any backlash about you guys being honest about what the country sees, but
they're too afraid to speak on about political climate?
Uh, not that we have experience, but it could be just around the corner.
You know, you never know.
If you, if you piss off the right person, uh, and that person is powerful, uh, we see what's
happening every single day, right?
Right.
Well, thank you guys for being honest.
Thank you for listening.
Thank you for being a listener.
That matters to us so much.
All righty, bye.
Take care.
8-0-2-3-2-1-4-2-2-2-5.
We have a couple of minutes left.
If you have something to say to us, you're right off the hook.
Dial that number.
Can't promise the best sound quality, but we'll try.
And, you know, pissing off the people in power is kind of, uh, a thing for us here at WBAI
and, uh, you can help keep that going at buddy.wbai.org.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Radio is so important.
People say radio is dying.
People say everything important is dying.
Newspapers, radio, telephones.
You have to wonder, you know, everything is being moved on to something digital and it's
very, very vulnerable there.
All right.
Good evening.
You're on off the hook.
Go ahead.
Hi.
Uh, can you hear me?
We hear you.
Yeah.
I have, uh, some, uh, guest suggestions for the next Hope Conference.
Okay.
We'll hear them.
Go ahead.
Yeah.
Can you, uh, send out invitations to, uh, Stuart Brand, Stacey Horn, and Howard Reingold?
I'd love to hear them talk about virtual units.
Those are all, uh, either well people or Echo people from New York City, right?
Right, right.
Yeah.
Stacey Horn started Echo and, uh, Stuart Brand started, uh,
and, uh, while I never joined them with them, uh, but what I read about them, it sounded
very tight, I feel like, and, uh, and, uh, I'm very disappointed with where we can find
online commuting, uh, like, toxic death tolls.
So I'd like to hear from those people.
All right.
Well, um, that, that's a great idea.
We'll, we will definitely consider that.
I know, uh, we've considered those names in the past as well.
So, uh, we'll certainly, uh, um, consider that again.
Absolutely.
And please keep sending us suggestions.
All right.
Thanks.
All right.
Love to see them.
Take care.
All right.
Take care.
Bye.
That's going to have to be the last phone call because we're pretty much out of time.
Um, but.
Oh, come on.
No, no, no.
Hey, hey.
No, I'm giving out the phone.
No, uh, we don't have time.
We, we, we, we have to go.
Uh, the next show is, is breathing down our necks.
Uh, but, uh, people who have suggestions for us on the radio or elsewhere, uh, email us
OTH at 2600.com.
We'd love to hear from you.
Um, and, uh, we will be on again next week, uh, with our usual, um, uh, show of, uh, an
hour on WBAI and who knows how long on overtime of which there is no overtime this week, unfortunately.
Um, and we will try to get this phone fixed.
Although that last call I think was not us.
I think that was just a bad cell phone signal.
Folks, uh, out in, um, signal land, any, any final words?
Just, uh, keep us going here at WBAI, buddy.wbai.org.
Fair enough.
All right.
Uh, Alex, have a great night over there in Sicily or morning or whatever it is.
Yes.
Thank you, Emmanuel.
And, uh, looking forward to next week.
And I just want to say all those things that they say are dying, they're things that remind
us how to live.
Mm hmm.
All right.
Uh.
Whoa.
Ah.
Mm hmm.
Okay.
We'll be right back.