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Thank you.
Alex, to fill in the inevitable gaps that will happen when I'm doing that.
Yeah.
Well, I'm used to that.
I'm used to that.
It took about 30 minutes of instruction just to get me to this point where I could get everything to start properly.
So let's hope that we make it to the end.
Thank you, Kyle, for all the help that you offered tonight.
You know, he has all these details basically telling me how to get through a particular program.
There's a red button on the upper right and a green flashing button on the bottom left, and then you'll hit this and you'll get an error, but it'll do that.
It's just, you know, I can't remember one thing to the next.
And he's just able to walk me through that.
So again, we all owe him a debt of thanks for making this show possible.
And next week, everybody will be back, I hope.
So we'll see about that.
We've got some things to talk about.
We will be taking phone calls tonight.
This is a call-in show for WBAI listeners.
We didn't even promote this show on the internet.
The reason being, I wasn't sure there was going to be a show because there are so many little
technical details that have to be tended to before we actually get on the air.
And fortunately, I think we actually made it.
So we will be taking phone calls in just a little bit.
We'll give the phone number out.
So no need to call yet.
So before that, though, we have some updates.
First of all, there was no show the last couple of weeks.
And the reason for that was because, well, a bunch of us were already out.
And then Kyle and I went up to visit our good friend Greg Newby in Whitehorse, Yukon, who
is suffering from patriotic cancer.
He's currently in hospice.
And it was an important trip.
We had to make it.
We had to see him.
And of course, it's heartbreaking seeing what he's going through.
And it's just, you know, it makes you angry.
It makes you cherish everything that you have.
And it just makes you put yourself in perspective as to, you know, where we all fit in, how powerless
we ultimately are and how whatever road it is we're on, we're all on that road.
And let's just hope there's vast mysteries to solve in the future and in the forever future.
Greg is still Greg, you know, he has his sense of humor.
He actually was walking us through this more than we were helping him, I think, because
that's the person he is where he is just so filled with, I want to say sanity, you know,
and calmness.
And to be put in this situation, especially somebody who took such good care of himself
to have this happen, it's just, it just, I'm gobsmacked by the whole thing.
There's just no other phrase that works.
So I'm glad we went up there.
We got to see him.
It was a difficult trip.
Um, but we saw lots and lots of amazing and heartening things.
We were up in Canada on reconciliation day, uh, where basically, um, uh, all the horrors
that, that, um, uh, took place in Canada against the native people are recognized and, um, and
noted and discussed.
And, um, you know, it doesn't fix anything, but it sure does make people informed.
And when you see school kids making little valentines to put in front of their elementary
school, uh, with all kinds of messages of hope and inspiration and love, you wonder why
that is so hard for us to do here, how hard it is for us to admit our wrongdoings and to
take significant steps in, in, in addressing them and fixing them and making sure they never
happen again.
Instead, it feels like we're repeating third grade.
We have to just go back and learn it all over again.
And, uh, unfortunately I, I, I see a reminder of that about every 10 minutes.
So, um, we, um, uh, we're up in Canada for a bit, came down to Seattle.
Uh, we took a couple of, we actually took three trains across the country, uh, train from Seattle
to Chicago.
Then I took a train from Chicago to New York and, and Kyle took a train from Chicago to
Florida.
And, um, trains are the way to get around.
They really are.
That's how you meet people.
Uh, we, we talked to so many interesting people, uh, on the train because you basically
get, get, uh, seated with complete strangers at the three meals that you get, uh, when you
do a cross country trip like that.
And, um, you don't always meet people that you agree with, but you do want to hear their
story.
And you do want to have that, um, uh, that shared experience of seeing the countryside
go by and you don't get that on an airplane.
I've said this before when I'm on an airplane, I don't talk to anybody.
I'm just basically, you know, I've got this, this silent dialogue with, you know, whatever,
um, uh, um, uh, technology or being, or whatever is controlling things saying, please get me through
this, uh, and, uh, I'm just very happy when we land, uh, on a train though, you know, I'm
a lot more social.
I actually start conversations with people and it's, it's, it's rather unusual to see.
So I, I, I, I really recommend it.
There are lots of, um, great long distance train routes and, um, lots of, um, uh, good
rail on the country to start with, um, a lot of potential.
So we, we, we came out of it, I think a bit more optimistic than we went into it, but still
it was very difficult trip and, um, a very, uh, important one for us.
Yeah.
Adding to that manual, I want to thank the listeners and everybody that wrote in to tell, uh, or
rather to, to tell stories about Greg or to wish him well.
And there were so many of you that, that wrote in these amazing anecdotes about how he inspired
you.
And I'm sure that you pass them all on to Greg as well, Emmanuel.
And, um, he's seen, he's seen everyone and he is so happy whenever he sees one.
So if you have a message for Greg, please write to us, OTH at 2600.com.
Uh, and if you don't know who Greg is, well, uh, you know, go into our history a little bit.
There are, there are a number of programs that he appeared on.
Uh, let's look for Greg Newby in the, um, uh, in the descriptions on 2600.com spelled N-E-W-B-Y.
Also on channel 2600 on YouTube, where all the hope videos are.
He, uh, he gave a talk at, uh, most of the conferences.
So you can, you can see him there and learn something about him.
Yeah.
I was really touched by the anecdotes that people had shared about him and how he inspired
so many others.
And I think he's just going to continue to be an inspiration for, I think, many, many
years to come for, for all of us.
And I think we're going to be channeling him, uh, during the show, during the hope conferences,
during the publication of the magazine.
It's just, um, you know, this is a guy who's going to, I think, reverberate through the ages.
He's a really extraordinary guy.
Um, but then I also shifting to the issue of trains.
I was on a super cool train last week.
Uh, it's called the Arlanda express.
I don't know if you can figure that out, Emmanuel, where, where that, where that train would be.
Is that the one that goes to the amusement park and you have to fight a bunch of kids
to get on it?
No, hardly.
Yes.
But good, good guess for like, you know, my activities and travel.
I have, I have some words about that train, but, uh, another time.
I would bet.
So no, this is the train that goes from Stockholm airport into the city.
So Arlanda airport in Stockholm over into the city.
And if you were to drive that, it would probably take you, I don't know, like 50 minutes.
It's actually pretty far outside the city, but this train, Emmanuel, was extraordinary.
Not only was it just absolutely pristine, beautiful inside, really, really nice.
So this wood trim and panelings and just really kind of modern and cool and very, very comfortable.
But it went so insanely fast.
It went about 120, 125 miles an hour.
It didn't stop anywhere.
It would take you from the airport right into the center of Stockholm in about 12 minutes
or something like that.
It was insanely fast.
It was an extraordinary train.
And I was, I was so impressed by it.
I really was.
It was very, very cool.
So I was in Stockholm last week.
If we were on the air, I would have done the show from Stockholm.
You see, in this country, we prefer to admire the scenery as it passes by, which is why we
go about 30 miles an hour and just look at every tree and every person that we pass.
So sometimes they pass us.
And it's, I find it to be more relaxed.
But yeah, you're right.
I mean, it's a joke.
We have to have higher speed rail in this country.
No question about that.
And I think, you know, the more people experience it, the more they realize how important it
is and how relaxing it can be as well.
Anyway, enough about that.
We have some, some news stories, a couple of letters, and we'll take some phone calls.
Um, our friend, um, uh, who, uh, was, was on this particular program, um, number of, uh,
weeks ago, Joshua Aaron, uh, wrote this, um, this app that was, uh, available, um, for,
for, um, iPhones and various other Apple devices called IceBlock, where you could, uh, basically
find out if ice was making an appearance in your neighborhood.
Well, guess what?
Apple has removed IceBlock after direct pressure from the Department of Justice.
Yeah.
The same people who, uh, fired, fired, um, uh, Joshua's wife.
Uh, it's, um, it's, it's really sad to see the capitulation.
It really is.
Uh, the developer of IceBlock, which is an app that lets people crowdsource sightings of
ice officials, uh, has said he is determined to fight back after Apple removed the app
from its app store.
Uh, the removal came after pressure from Department of Justice officials, uh, who basically lied
through their teeth, but, uh, we'll get into that in the future, uh, acting at the direction
of Attorney General Pam Bondi.
Uh, and unfortunately I'm quoting Fox here, uh, but that's, uh, it's a story from 404 Media,
but they're, they're quoting Fox, uh, which basically they first reported the,
the removal of the app.
They did a little, um, song and dance to a, you know, they kind of were dancing a jig
on the air.
Uh, Apple told, uh, 404 Media, it has removed other similar apps too.
Uh, Joshua Aaron told 404 Media, I am incredibly disappointed by Apple's actions today.
Capitulating to an authoritarian regime is never the right move.
IceBlock is no different from crowdsourcing speed traps, which every notable mapping application,
including Apple's own Maps app, implements as part of its core services.
This is protected speech under the First Amendment of the United States Constitution.
We are determined to fight this with everything we have.
Our mission has always been to protect our neighbors from the terror.
This administration continues to rain down on the people of this nation.
We will not be deterred.
We will not stop.
Amen.
Uh, and it's, um, it's sad to think that, um, uh, they caved that easily.
Uh, yeah, it was available for, uh, for quite a while.
Uh, and then just a little bit of pressure from these, um, uh, these bullies and they folded
just like so many tech companies have, have been folding this year.
Um, I think we as hackers have to figure out other ways to get this information out there
to help this app and other apps, um, uh, survive and, and, and get to the people who need that
information.
And, um, before we, uh, get a flurry of letters from people saying, well, they're breaking the
law and they must be captured.
We're talking about people who have been in this country for decades.
We're talking about people who have raised families here.
They do not deserve to be thrown in the back of a van and, uh, carted off in the middle
of the night and thrown in a country they'd never even been to in their lives.
That's not who we are.
And that is not what we should be standing for.
And if you tell me that they're just doing their job, I can list you a whole lot of other
people who were just doing their jobs too.
And their jobs sucked and their jobs should be obliterated because they have no right to
be doing this to human beings.
But that's just my feeling on the matter.
Hopefully, uh, we can figure out a way to, um, um, to spread this, um, information because
that's all it is.
It's spreading information saying, Hey, that's over there.
This group of people are here now.
They are in this city.
They are on that block.
Uh, is it getting to the point where we're not allowed to even tell people, uh, you know,
person to person what we're seeing?
I mean, you know, it, it can get to that point.
It absolutely can.
In authoritarian regimes, every aspect of speech is controlled.
So yeah, it's a wish list.
There are all kinds of, of, of bad negative things happening in this country.
I don't want people to feel like they don't have power to speak out and, and do something
about this.
You know, maybe you make an app, uh, maybe you organize some kind of a gathering.
Uh, maybe you just, um, um, talk to people and, and make them feel a little bit better
about where they are, or you can show up on Saturday to one of the, uh, more than a couple
of thousand, no Kings rallies that are taking place all throughout this country.
The second time, I think this one might be even bigger.
And I'll tell you, you know, that's the kind of thing that can really make you realize how
many of us there are and what kind of power you actually do have.
You know, we have to fight to get our, um, our, our rights back.
We have to fight to get rid of this, um, this feeling of, um, of, of, of terror and, um,
just the ominous gloom in the air.
You know, it doesn't matter how you feel about immigration.
You know, it doesn't matter how you feel about the economy.
I think what we can all agree with is that it's a very negative environment right now.
We're looking at, uh, uh, people's healthcare costs tripling.
We're looking at, uh, government shutdowns, people losing their jobs.
We're looking at, uh, all kinds of, uh, of, of other, um, um, negative things that are
happening as a result of bad policy.
I mean, I'll say it's bad policy and immature people.
And, um, at some point you have to say enough already, you can't break this anymore.
So, uh, I think Saturday will be a good day.
At least I'm looking forward to it.
Uh, and, uh, if you go to, um, you know what?
I, I, I had the page in front of me.
I'll, I'll find it again.
It's a, there's a no Kings webpage that lists all the demonstrations that are happening.
Alex, you have something to say?
I'll find that while you're.
Yeah, sure.
I, I, I think this, this whole fiasco with respect to, to ice block and Joshua Aronson.
And, you know, obviously we had him here.
We had him at the, uh, the conference over the, this past summer as well.
Um, and he's, he's an extraordinary guy.
He's extremely principled.
He created something that had, uh, I think a wonderful impact on so many people's lives,
right?
Made people feel more secure, made them feel safe when they went outside, knowing that there
weren't any ice sightings around there.
There were over 1 million users, as I understood it, of the ice block app, but what this really
brings, I think, right to front of mind now is that we're not in control of our technology.
We're not in control of our devices.
These are all decisions that are coming down and made between governments and centralized
platforms like Apple.
If Apple can make this decision that, that essentially denies over a million people, the ability
to use this ice block app simply because Pam Bondi and the attorney general claim that,
you know, it was being used to, to facilitate some kind of harm to ice agents without any
actual evidence or, um, or, or really any support other than their say so, that this was some
kind of dangerous app.
It's the problem of centralization.
And we're never going to get out of this situation where our technology is controlled by others
and those others have interests.
These are billionaires' interests that are very much, um, in bed with the regulators,
in bed with the government.
They don't want to anger the president.
They don't want to get on his bad side.
And so all of these, these platforms are kowtowing.
And this would not happen if this power system was dispersed in some way.
If a unilateral, uh, unilateral decision was not able to be made by, let's say, Tim Cook
or committee at Apple or a committee at Facebook or Mark Zuckerberg himself, then we wouldn't
be in this situation.
If we had to abide by some kind of consensus, if we had to, if we had decentralized power structures
that would allow us to take more control over our devices and have more sovereignty over
our data, we would be in a completely different situation than we are now.
But we've created these structures.
We've allowed these monsters, essentially these platforms to proliferate in such a way
that they have such extraordinary power and they are so connected with the government
that it's hard for us to disentangle ourselves from this power structure right now.
So I think if we're ever going to get out of this, we need to make a push for more decentralized
power structures.
We need to have more user sovereignty built into the core functionality of our technologies.
And I don't think that we should be allowing these sort of, these platform policy decisions
to dictate whether or not we have the full measure of freedom of speech that's guaranteed
to us by the First Amendment.
And one of the trickiest things here is that even though this was a government request,
it was ultimately decisions, it was a decision-making power of a private party that is not subject
to the strictures of the First Amendment here.
So I think it's arguable whether a First Amendment claim could be made, that this would violate
essentially the Bill of Rights, that this would be some kind of unconstitutional mandate
that the government had made or unconstitutional demand on these platforms because it wasn't
a compelling, it wasn't, this wasn't a court order or something like this.
It was basically a request from the government and the platforms simply complied.
That's where I think the real danger is here is that there's no real even accountability.
I think it's very questionable whether a lawsuit could even be filed, that there would be standing
of a user to bring a claim that this was a First Amendment violation.
So yeah, this is problematic all around the board and I see no end in sight.
Well, I think, again, the solution is a technical one.
The solution is for us to figure out a way to bypass this nonsense.
You know, just like it was actually Greg Newby who figured out a way to bypass Amazon stranglehold
on publications where, you know, we had to accept their terms to get our magazine out on the
Kindle.
Well, no more.
Now we publish EPUBs ourselves and you simply sideload it onto your Kindle and you avoid
Amazon altogether.
Things like that.
Those are the amazing solutions.
That's the hacker way of dealing with these issues.
We could talk all hour about this and we do want to take some calls, but I also want to
read a couple of letters was just listening to the broadcast of September 24th.
You're doing great.
I love what you talk about.
Keep it up.
I think the only reason you're not flooded with positive comments all the time is because
most of us assume that you're constantly being trolled and know how to handle it.
Good, reasonable people are out here and listening.
Keep it up.
Same for off the wall.
That's our other radio show on the other radio station.
We've got a lot of work to do.
We're going to fix this thing.
We need you guys.
I'm so sad to hear that Greg Newby is in hospice.
I've never gotten to meet him, but I've seen his hope talks.
There just isn't a better human.
Please let him know that complete strangers love him and are grateful for everything he's
done.
Take care.
And that letter was forwarded to Greg and he was very thankful and happy to have seen
that.
And yeah, it's good to know there are people out there who support us.
It is important, though, that we know you're there, you know, that we hear from you because,
yeah, we get a lot of negative mail as well.
And you better believe, and it's kind of a microcosm of society.
Those are the people that get heard the most.
They're the ones who call C-SPAN all the time.
They're the ones who take over the airwaves and take over the streets, really, you know,
and they're the loudest voices.
And you can be convinced quite easily that those are the only voices out there if you don't
hear some reinforcements, some positive feedback.
That goes for everybody, not just for people on the radio.
It goes for the people around you.
So make sure you say some kind words, say some reassuring words, because we all need
that right now.
And if we're going to get through this thing, and we will get through this one way or another,
we're going to need to work together.
And that means not sniping at each other about, you know, technical differences or what you
believe on one particular issue but not another.
We have to get beyond that if we want any real progress.
Okay, here's one more letter.
Why haven't we exposed the shell game behind this election?
Oh boy, what other logical explanation is there?
What seems like every day now I find it increasingly difficult to believe the American people put this
guy in office.
Are we really this dense?
I guess some seem to enjoy chaos and drama, or worse, watching others suffer.
But where are they now?
There has to be some sort of evidence of wrongdoing.
It's problematic to believe 77 million of us voted for this.
It's ignorant if you didn't see some version of this coming.
I've never felt so embarrassed to live in the U.S.
To those suffering, I'm sorry I didn't do more during the election.
To those who recklessly supported him, you're getting what you paid for and should be ashamed
of yourself for all the agony you've caused.
A distressed U.S. citizen.
Well, I hear you.
I hear you.
Uh, and, um, I, I, I, I get the anger and the frustration.
Um, I don't think there was anything particularly wrong with the election other than the way
elections are run in this country.
I think 77 million people really did vote this way.
And it's sad to realize that everything that is happening right now happened because the
majority of us wanted this.
Maybe not this, but they wanted this particular structure and thought that maybe it wouldn't
be the way it is now.
That is my hope that people didn't want specifically what is happening now.
You know, they wanted immigration to be taken seriously.
Fine.
They didn't want the terror.
You know, they didn't want, um, um, soldiers in cities.
They didn't want people, uh, being threatened by personally by the administration.
You know, individual people say something controversial and before you know it, they're
being targeted by some of the most powerful people in the world.
It's, it's crazy what we have right now.
And I don't think 77 million people wanted that.
So if that is the case, and I know it is the case, I hope we see more of those people
who say enough is enough already.
Maybe some of them in Congress, that would sure be nice.
And, um, we can fix this.
We can change this.
It'll take a while.
And, uh, there are some things that, uh, won't be fixed, uh, very quickly, but we have
to believe we can.
It's that, or we just act like Apple and give up.
And I don't think we want to do that.
All right.
Now comes the fun part of the program where I get to be an octopus and be in various parts
of the studio at once.
Uh, and Alex, I might need you to, um, uh, to help me out here.
Um, what I am going to do is, um, open up the phone lines.
Uh, but first I'm gonna give out the phone number, which is eight zero two.
Uh, and tell me if I'm wrong.
Eight zero two, three, two, one, four, two, two, five.
That's our phone number, right?
That's correct.
Okay.
That number has now been activated.
Uh, and, um, if it rings, it will ring.
I know that.
Um, I'm going to go over to the other, I, you know, I'm going to go to the other side
of the room right now.
So that I'm ready for it to ring.
Uh, you, you say something intelligent while I'm doing that.
Yeah, sure.
So why don't we go back to talking about what's going on with the platforms and these, these
government requests?
Well, we have a phone call.
Oh my God.
There it is.
Hold on.
I haven't gotten to the other side of the room yet.
God, that's very quick.
I see it.
Don't struggle too much over there manually.
Might hurt yourself.
What button do I hit?
Okay.
I think I hit that button and, uh, yeah, I have to reach all the way over here now and press
this, uh, and say, good evening.
You're on WBAI.
What's on your mind?
Uh, yes.
Hi.
Hi, Emmanuel.
Oh, rebel.
Somehow you found us.
Yeah.
I can't hear you well, but, um.
Okay.
If you start saying you can't hear us well, we're going to make, we're going to, we're
going to fix that.
So you don't hear us at all.
Sorry.
This is just, it shows a lot about, um, uh, rights tonight.
So, um, I'm going to say that, um, I was able to get the Ice Blacker app on the Android
phone on the Google app store.
That's not the same app.
What do you mean it's not the same app?
Because that app was only available for, for, uh, on the, uh, Apple app store.
Oh, it was only available on Apple?
Yes.
That was part of, that was part of the discussion that we had.
Okay.
Um, I meant to mention that, um, there are books in the library, you know, that some libraries
in the country ban certain books.
They ban a whole lot more than that.
Well, some library, I, I was talking to a local librarian here in Queens and they said
there are books that are banned and if libraries, you know, put them out, they, they could be
subject to prosecution.
I'm surprised to hear that something like that in this country.
Well, it depends, you know, it's different in different parts of the country.
Obviously, if you saw something like that in New York, I want to know what books we're
talking about.
Right.
And New York, maybe, or all state of New York, I don't think it's banned, but like maybe
some states down south that's banned or, you know.
Yeah.
And, and some of them are, are, you know, books that you would not expect to, uh, to
be banned.
The great works of literature, but they, they talk about certain subjects that people don't
want to bring up things like homosexuality or, or slavery or, you know, just anything
that, that criticizes the United States.
It's gotten to that point.
It's not, it's not, you know, they'll tell you they're taking pornography out of the school
library.
That's to get you on their side.
But once they're finished with that, they will go for all kinds of other books as well.
Before you know it, 1984 will be banned and that'll be the ultimate irony.
That's what I thought that would be.
I mean, I think I saw that one of that on the list.
Okay.
Well then I guess the irony has arrived.
Well, yeah.
I heard that, you know, librarians or people who work in libraries can be prosecuted for
that.
I mean, I don't, I just get surprised to hear that, that, you know, in this country, a
lot of, somebody who, you know, publishes something that somebody doesn't like can be
Well, Rebel, can I say, uh, I have heard the phrase, I never thought I'd see that in this
country so many times in the last few months, uh, that, uh, you know, you realize there's
a real crisis going on right now.
And I think we can all agree on that.
Anyway, any, any closing thoughts?
We have to keep the calls brief because we're, we only have an hour.
Um, no, I, I guess that, that's, you know, I guess that's what, uh, uh, I wanted to say.
Well, keep your eyes open and keep fighting for freedom.
Right.
All right.
Okay.
Thank you.
Do the name Rebel Justice.
802-321-4225.
Um, the, the way I'm set up right now, Alex, I can no longer see you.
Uh, but I assume, I assume everything is going well.
I, I, I, yeah, everything, everything's on, on track here.
That was a nice, succinct Rebel call there.
Probably the fastest Rebel call, uh, we've had in, in years, I would say.
For those who don't know, Rebel has called our show every time we've been on the air,
it seems, or at least back into the nineties.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I, I remember him, yeah, literally 30 something years ago.
It's kind of extraordinary when you, when you think about it, but, um, 802-321-4225 is
our telephone number.
If people want to call in and tell us what's on their mind, give us their thoughts on anything
that we've discussed or, or otherwise, that's 802-321-H-A-C-K, HACK, for those of you who
prefer letters to numbers.
In the meantime, Emmanuel, why don't we talk about this coordinated government effort with
respect to pressuring platforms to remove information about ICE, because it doesn't just
affect Apple.
There was a news story today about a Facebook group that the Department of Justice had requested
meta remove.
It was known as the Ice Sighting Chicagoland.
It had around 80,000 members and it was used to share, just like the IceBlock app, real-time
information about the locations and identities of ICE agents that were operating in and around
the Chicago area.
And a lot of posts would typically include things like photographs of ICE agents, details
about the vehicles that they were using, tips about where they were seen on the city in
any given moment or day.
And it was used to coordinate alerts.
They tagged times and locations where agents were spotted, basically allowing people to know
about ICE activity in and around that area.
So authorities from DOJ, Department of Justice, and of course, Pam Bondi, they described this
group as, quote, doxing and targeting, unquote, of ICE agents.
And for those who don't know what doxing is, it means that, you know, they were releasing
personal information about agents and circulating that in a way that could be considered to be
harassment or some kind of form of intimidation.
That's what Pam Bondi and DOJ claimed.
However, if you look at the post and the reporting on this as well, most reports indicated the
bulk of the content in this Facebook group probably focused mostly on field sightings,
identification of agent activity through photographs, sharing details about enforcement
operations, rather than publishing anything remotely resembling sensitive personal information
such as home addresses or family connections.
So while you struggle to answer that phone call that we have coming in, I think it's really
important to note that we're seeing this coordinated push against platforms right now by the
Department of Justice to suppress information about ICE and trying to really tamper down on
any kind of accountability with respect to ICE's operations.
So I'll pause there.
We'll go back to it in the interim.
And hopefully we can say hello to the caller.
Good evening.
You're on WBAI.
Go ahead.
Eric.
Who's this?
Yeah, this is W...
Hey, this is Reggie.
You're off the air.
I'm off...
Why are we off the air?
I don't know.
Your connection dropped.
Oh, you know what?
Maybe this mouse...
Okay, I'm going to click again.
Hold on.
Yeah, I'm playing music right now.
Okay.
Are we back?
All right.
Let's try it now.
Okay.
Wow.
Okay.
Wow.
Are we back?
We're back.
All right.
You know, okay, this is something that we couldn't have planned.
There's a whole jumble of equipment here on this table.
When I reached over to answer the phone, I think I clicked the mouse, and what the mouse did was disconnect us from the radio station, because, yeah, that's where it happened to be sitting.
I think that is the technical explanation for what happened.
Alex, I still can't turn my head.
Are you still there?
I'm still here.
I wonder...
Well, that's embarrassing.
You know, it's going to show up on the archive.
So people who listen to the archive will hear what we were saying.
But those who are listening on the radio, I don't know what you heard, probably music or something like that.
Look, I'm running all kinds of things at the same time here, literally have to run across the room to hit certain buttons at the right time.
And unfortunately, a button hit itself at the wrong time.
I basically brushed it.
You know what?
I'm putting this mouse.
It's a wireless mouse.
That's the R80.
It should be on the other side of the room.
So it can't accidentally click that button again.
So I don't know what you missed.
You missed a call from Rebel.
So you get those every week.
Oh, okay.
Well, all right.
Well, you were there, Alex.
You heard yourself.
I was there, but I don't know at what point we were knocked off the air by the Eric mouse.
It could have been as soon as when I got to this part of the studio.
Anyway, let's give out the phone number again.
Rebel, it doesn't mean you call back.
It doesn't mean you do it a second time.
802-321-4225 is our telephone number.
And I'm sorry for the chaos.
I knew chaos would happen.
I didn't know it would happen quite that way.
Yeah.
If you want to quickly summarize what you said before the phone rings again, that would be great.
Yeah, sure.
So while we're waiting for a phone call, and this will, I guess, be twice for those who are listening in the archive now,
that we were talking about this coordinated push of the government and Department of Justice.
I'm sorry, Alex, but we have a call.
We've got a call.
All right.
Great.
And good evening.
You're on WBAI.
Go ahead.
Hi.
How are you doing?
Good.
How are you?
I'm okay.
Just thinking about how this is the day that Microsoft ends support for Windows 10
and makes an enormous number of computers, megatons of computers, obsolete.
I wonder what your thoughts were on that matter.
Well, that happened today, you said?
Today is the end of support for Windows 10, yes.
Wow.
Well, I'll tell you, I'm still running Windows 7.
I'm still running Windows XP.
And, you know, I'm not some lunatic that, you know, lives with tinfoil all around them.
There are some programs that work in those operating systems and no others.
So it's a necessity in some cases to do that.
You can do this successfully if you are committed to doing that.
Um, but yeah, it's, um, the lack of support, uh, is a problem because, you know, when you,
when you get something, you, you, you, you're not, you're not signing into this whole, like,
um, a project of improving the software and adding features for the rest of your life.
You want something that works.
You want, you know, like a refrigerator, you want to plug it in and leave it running.
You don't want to have to keep getting updates every week to make sure that it's optimized
or that it's got the latest freezing software or whatever.
You just want to buy something that works.
And unfortunately, the way we have been programmed today, uh, we have to constantly be rebuying
the same things.
And this is just another symptom of that.
Your Windows machine will, will probably continue to work.
It'll get critical updates, I'm sure.
Uh, and, uh, if, if you're really concerned, just minimize, uh, contact with, um, uh, you know,
outside sources such as places where you download software.
Um, but unfortunately that is the way the, uh, the, the, the systems work.
I suggest, you know, something more like Linux or, uh, something that is, uh, uh, more crowd
supported.
The thing about it, I'm sorry, that's the worst is that they made it so that the machines that
are running Windows 10 mostly cannot run Windows 11.
They made it unupdatable on the same machines.
They're forcing people to buy new hardware.
Yeah, that's what they do.
And it's important to expose them.
You know, it's, um, also this month, uh, Google is discontinuing support for the original
Nest thermometers or thermostats rather, uh, so that you can't program them from, uh, remote
areas anymore.
And, you know, it's, it's crazy.
If you look at a, um, um, uh, any kind of, um, uh, web discussion about this, you'll see
so many people defend Google, they constantly defend Google and say that, what were you expecting
when you, when you bought a smart device, eventually there's not going to be any support.
Why, why is that a given that there's not going to be support?
Uh, maybe it doesn't need support.
Maybe it just needs to be able to run and do its thing rather than expecting you to spend
a couple hundred bucks every 10 years for something that you usually only buy once.
Um, so, you know, that, that kind of thing, we have to challenge, uh, being told we have
to think this way, we have to continuously pay for the same thing.
We don't actually own what we buy.
Uh, these are unhealthy ways of thinking that, uh, are, are being forced down our throats.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Keep up the good work, guys.
Thank you.
Thank you for your call.
Take care.
Yeah.
That's a great issue.
And while we're waiting for another call, I, I, to, to add to what the caller mentioned,
I think there's a lot of implications here for, in particular for, for healthcare systems,
hospitals, et cetera, that have lots of specialized medical devices that might be built specifically
for windows 10 or older operating systems.
And they're not going to be compatible for, with newer versions or these device manufacturers
may not have built drivers that will work with newer operating systems.
Everything's just kind of stagnant in that world for, for quite a while.
So now all these newly discovered vulnerabilities in windows 10, you know, are likely going to
become, are, they're not going to be patched.
They're going to allow cyber attacks to happen more readily to hospitals that have to use
windows 10 to run these specialized medical devices because they have to provide patient
care.
So you're going to have to make a decision about, you know, can you afford to update
these devices?
Can you afford to take them offline?
Probably not.
And so you're going to have a, a greater threat model, a greater risk profile for these hospitals
because of the end of life of windows 10 and the lack of support over there.
So, Emmanuel, I'm not sure if we have a caller on the line.
Do we have one?
Yes, we do.
Good evening.
You're on WBAI.
Go ahead.
I'm sorry to hear what was going on with your friend, Greg Newby.
Unfortunately for me, I didn't have the privilege to meet him in person, but like many others,
I'd seen his talks given at Hope and I'd actually sent him an email.
What was it for two hopes ago?
Yeah, two hopes ago.
I sent him an email because I wanted to get access to one of the video streams for my pirate
TV station where I was rebroadcasting Hope over the air.
And of course, he's always, always been such a kind, helpful person.
I mean, as most Canadians are, but, you know, he just goes above and beyond for anything.
And it's really hard to see what he's going through.
And I wish for him the best.
As do we.
And thank you for those kind words and a reminder of the person he was.
Take care.
802-321-4225 is our telephone number.
We're taking phone calls tonight.
No overtime on YouTube, which we usually do.
Next week, I think we're coming back with everybody and with the internet podcast that
follows the show.
But tonight, it's just for people who are listening to the radio show, 802-321-4225.
We're on for a few more minutes.
And it's just me and Alex in the studio.
Actually, Alex, you're in a different studio.
And I'm in this studio where I have a lot of different things I have to take care of,
including picking up this phone call right now and saying, good evening.
You're on WBAI.
Go ahead.
Hi, this is Kyle in Florida.
Hey, Kyle, are you a new listener?
Yeah, I've just started listening to Off the Hook.
And I just wanted to know, is everything all right over there?
Well, yeah, for the most part.
I bumped into something.
And you know how it is when I bump into things.
Okay.
Yeah.
Well, I just wanted to let you know I'm a big fan, a new listener.
But I really enjoy the show.
And I just want to say you're doing a fantastic job.
Uh-huh.
Thank you, Kyle.
Thank you.
I needed to hear that.
And we'll talk about it more next week.
All right, I'll hang up now and just listen offline.
I want to hear some of the other callers.
Yes.
I really enjoy the show, and I'm really happy with all the work you guys do.
Say hello to everybody in Florida for us.
Yeah, you know, it's an interesting place.
But I guess I'll save the stories I have for another day.
Okay.
Have a great rest of your show.
Bye.
Bye.
That's such a familiar voice.
He's such a wise guy.
Okay.
Just really funny.
Yeah.
All right.
Well, 802-321-4225.
We have about a little less than 10 minutes.
Let's take this phone call over here and say good evening.
You're on WBAI.
Go ahead.
Hello.
Hi.
What's on your mind?
Good.
Hello?
Yes.
Can you hear me?
Yes, I can hear you.
Okay.
What's on your mind?
Yes, you're on the air right now.
Yeah.
Only for Windows 10, they give you an option to get an extended warranty or update on that
software, and it costs nothing.
Okay.
I didn't hear about that.
So, yeah, yeah.
And it's pretty easy to put on.
You know, they were going to charge $30, but now it's free for another year.
Okay, so you get a one-year extension.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah, I think there are people out there who want things to work longer than that, you
know, want things to work for, I don't know, you know, my laptop's 10 years old.
One of my laptops is 10 years old.
You know, people look at me like I'm crazy when I say, yeah, I use technology until it
literally doesn't do anything anymore.
You know, if it's not my main machine, I put it to work doing something else.
But, you know, this attitude of just throwing everything out the second a new one comes out
or the second something is not as fast as you want it to be, I just don't think that's
very healthy.
I also read where there's a lawsuit, somebody has filed a lawsuit to try to block that too,
you know, so.
Yeah, I mean, you know, it's fine to keep coming up with new versions of things, but you don't
abandon people who have the old versions.
And, you know, if you're not going to, if you want to phase out the old version, then
you give everybody a way to get to the new version and have all of their software supported,
then you're actually doing a service.
Well, all right.
Well, thank you.
Thanks for the call.
Take care.
I didn't mean to address him as if he was the problem, but, you know, it's something that
we see constantly, just being expected to keep up with the tech companies.
And, you know, buy the same thing over and over again.
You know, the latest thing these days is software, having to pay by the month for software that
you used to just buy and have on your machine.
And, you know, the advantage is, yeah, you can get a new machine and the software will update
and you're paying the same amount every month, but you're buying a lot more hardware, you're
paying for software now forever.
Yeah, it just, it doesn't feel right.
So 802-321-4225, I think we have time for one or two more phone calls if there are people
out there.
Alex, could you transfer me to say what you wanted to say?
Sure.
And with respect to what the caller was talking about, this extended warranty, you can buy
that, but it only applies to critical security patches.
And what is a critical security issue is, again, we go back to this issue of centralization
and power.
That is going to be determined by Microsoft.
So a non-critical security vulnerability will likely not be patched, even if it could result
in perhaps like some kind of remote code exploitation of your system, or it could introduce a security
vulnerability, let's say, to a hospital.
What is going to be a critical security patch that justifies Microsoft working on some kind
of update for Windows 10 on the basis of this $30 purchase up for extended warranty users
is going to be entirely up to Microsoft.
No save the users, no oversight, no accountability, of course.
I think there are differences with the way a hospital or a massive business is run.
You want everything to be up-to-date then and pretty much the same type of OS, whereas
individuals, they're very different.
They all have their own tastes.
You can't play by the same rules.
I think it's really important to respect that if you want individuals to buy your products
and to support what it is they buy from you.
Can you imagine if you were a bookseller and you sold somebody a book 10 years ago and
all of a sudden it became illegible because, well, they didn't buy the new book.
They didn't buy the new same book that they bought before, but the new version of it that
they could still read.
They'd be outraged.
You know, books last hundreds of years.
You know, you're not expected to buy it again unless, you know, you lose it or it falls,
you know, apart, but this expectation, again, just unhealthy.
Let's take this phone call.
Good evening.
You're on off the hook over, actually off the hook, just regular off the hook.
Go ahead.
Hello?
Yes.
What's on your mind?
Yeah.
What is a good virus software to buy to protect your computer?
Oh, gosh.
You know, there are a lot of factors there.
What kind of computer do you have?
What kind of OS?
I don't think I have the answer for that.
Alex, do you have any opinion?
Well, what OS are you using, sir?
Well, it's a Dell.
I don't know.
Okay, so you're probably running Windows.
I might ask.
Yeah.
I mean, so Norton 360 is supposed to be pretty good.
Bitdefender is pretty good.
I mean, I like, actually, I use Mac OS for lots of things.
I use Malwarebytes, which is pretty decent.
I mean, they...
What about Advanced?
Is that a good one?
I've heard they can be very annoying as far as just bothering you constantly.
I just, I heard that.
I don't use it myself.
I'm not sure.
I'm not sure.
I can't.
I don't have any real experience with that one caller.
But, yeah, I would take a look at Norton.
I would take a look at McAfee.
You know, some people still like Kaspersky as well.
But, you know, there's the Russian connection there that makes it a little dubious.
Yeah, they all have interesting stories behind them.
Yes, they do.
Yeah.
Anyway, caller, thank you.
And best of luck with that.
802-321-4225 is our phone number.
Again, people just call once.
We want to open up the phone lines for as many people as possible.
I think we only have time for one more.
So let's make it a good one.
802-321-4225.
Alex, whenever you start talking, that seems to get the phone calls coming.
Yeah, sure.
Yeah, you know, and another option that's actually bundled with Windows is the Microsoft Defender as well.
So I think new versions of Windows have Microsoft Defender, and that's actually pretty effective antivirus software.
But, so let's see if we can fit one more call in.
But, you know, I want to go back to this issue of, and every time I do, that's when the phone rings.
So not only was the government pressuring Apple here, but we also saw today the removal of a Facebook group that pertained to ICE that was done at the request of the Department of Justice.
It had around 80,000 members.
It was used to share real-time information about the locations and identities and activities of immigration and custom enforcement agents, ICE agents, in and around the Chicago area.
So what I think is so incredibly important here is that we're seeing a government push, a mandate that's going across platforms.
They're pressuring Apple.
They're pressuring Meta.
They're pressuring Google to remove information about data that will allow the people to track ICE, to understand its activities, and to hold that agency accountable in many, many ways.
So I think this is extraordinarily dangerous, and we have private actors that have centralized a massive amount of power in their hands that are kowtowing to government requests to disable user functionality, to prevent users from sharing information.
And arguably, this will have a chilling effect not only on the ability of users to communicate with each other about what's happening with respect to ICE or other particular physical threats,
but also on developers who may just cease to build these types of applications.
A couple of weeks ago, we had, from Human Rights First, we had Paris Richter on, who described to us the ReadyNow app that's being used to help people that are being targeted by ICE.
That's also something I think users should take a look into, and it would really help with emergency preparedness planning.
And, yeah, it's a crazy world out there right now, and I think we really have to watch what the government is going to be doing next.
Well, Alex, I think you lost your touch because another person didn't call in while you were talking, perhaps because they were listening to what you were saying.
Maybe it was so interesting.
That is always the risk. That's always the risk.
But I want to thank people who did call in. Apologies for any glitches that we might have experienced.
We will have the version of the show that didn't get cut off in the middle on our archive.
You could probably listen to the WBAR archive and hear what it sounded like over the air, which was probably a lot of confusion.
Yeah, okay, why not?
O-T-H at 2600.com is our email address.
Please write to us.
Support WBAI.
Give to WBAI.org or Buddy.WBAI.org.
And keep this place going because free speech, boy, it's becoming a scarcity these days.
It's a target, and we're all in this together.
We'll see you somewhere on Saturday, hopefully, and we'll see you next week here on WBAI, 7 to 8.
Overtime after that next week.
Not this week.
Good night, everyone.
More hype.
I program my home computer
Be myself into the future
I program my home computer
Be myself into the future


All right, now comes the fun part of the program where I get to be an octopus and be in various parts of the studio at once.
And Alex, I might need you to help me out here.
What I am going to do is open up the phone lines.
But first, I'm going to give out the phone number, which is 802, and tell me if I'm wrong, 802-321-4225.
That's our phone number, right?
That's correct.
Okay, that number has now been activated.
And if it rings, it will ring.
I know that.
I'm going to go over to the other side of the room right now so that I'm ready for it to ring.
You say something intelligent while I'm doing that.
Yeah, sure.
So why don't we?
I'm going to go over to the door.
Thank you.
Thank you.
All right, let's try it again.
Let's see.
I'm just going to add some music and let's just see what happens.
Let's see what I've got here.
Never a dull moment.
Okay, so let's see what I've got here.
Let's see what I've got here.
Thank you.
Yeah, I'm going to play music right now.
Okay, are we back?
Okay, we're back.
All right, let's try it now.
We're back.
Wow.
Wow.
Are we back?
We're back.
All right.
You know, okay, this is something that we couldn't have planned.
There's a whole jumble of equipment here on this table.
When I reached over to answer the phone, I think I clicked the mouse,
and what the mouse did was disconnect us from the radio station
because, yeah, that's where it happened to be sitting.
I think that is the technical explanation for what happened.
I'm going to talk to you.
I think that's a good question.
I don't know.