The number you have reached, 721-9901.
In area code, 212, has been changed.
The new number is 01133145744401.
The number you have reached, 721-9901.
In area code, 212, has been changed.
The new number is 01133145744401.
Please make a note of it.
The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a cough.
We couldn't get much worse, but if they could, they would.
The number you have reached, 721-9901.
The number you have reached, 721-9901.
I hope that's understood.
The number you have reached, 721-9901.
The number you have reached, 721-9901.
The number you have reached, 721-9901.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
And we have Alex.
Buenos noches.
Yes.
And you say that because, well, you're someplace else this week.
Is that true, Alex?
Yes, that's true.
I said buenas noches because I'm in Buenos Aires this week.
So hello from Argentina, where it's 9 p.m.
And it's springtime.
Hang on.
I thought you told us it was the same time zone.
9 p.m.
I thought it was the same time zone.
That's two hours ahead of us.
Yeah, I know.
I got that wrong last time.
Because the last time I came to Argentina was 16 years ago.
And it was during the winter where it's only one hour ahead, apparently.
And I think I just completely forgot because it's almost inconsequential to have a one hour time change.
But because they don't participate in daylight savings time, it's now two hours ahead here.
So it's 9 p.m. here, and I was wrong.
See, I'll admit when I'm wrong, unlike some people.
And you'll admit it about the important things.
Okay, well, that's good.
That's good.
It's a sign of progress.
So they don't participate in daylight savings time, which would be happening now because you're in the southern hemisphere.
And it's springtime.
That's right.
Yeah.
And it is spring.
It's really lovely.
It was kind of jarring to get off the plane and be in a completely separate season.
It's been beautiful.
I had to buy Sunblock.
It's been really quite nice.
We've had wonderful weather here.
And I'm here for the Ethereum DevConnect conference.
So thousands and thousands of hackers and builders coming together.
And, you know, we're here.
I'm here on behalf of the Ethereum name service.
And we're doing some really interesting things.
Had some great announcements.
It's been very, very busy.
And Buenos Aires is a great city.
So it's very quirky.
Very, very fun to explore.
Kind of massive, like New York.
But a lot more economical.
And, you know, the steak here is really just like second to none, I have to say.
I mean, I think it's worth coming down here just to experience the food.
Well, I believe our president has given that country a whole lot of money to bring the steak here.
So people don't have to go there.
And the farmers here are fit to be tied.
But, you know, that's topics for, you know, other shows.
Yeah, or the news.
Hey, this is a call-in program.
It's going to be a call-in program as soon as we open up the phone lines.
We're not doing overtime tonight.
We're just going to be talking to our listeners, our WBAI listeners, about various things going on in the hacker world.
But, well, yeah, we're kind of in the forefront of that at the moment.
We'll get into it just a little bit, I'm sure.
But first, a couple of letters.
You can write to us, OTH at 2600.com.
That's our email address.
Yes, I've been listening over 20 years and attended Hope back when it was in the Puck Building.
Well, that happened once back in 1997.
I listened to Off the Hook last week, November 12th, and I'm disappointed by your take on the Stephen Yaxley-Lennon court case.
That was the guy who refused to give up his phone, I believe, or his phone password going from England to some part of France.
And he won his case, and we were saying it's a good thing he won his case.
Okay, well, let's continue.
Stephen Yaxley-Lennon is a racist, homophobic scumbag.
I believe we said that.
Maybe not in those exact words, but I'm pretty sure we made that clear.
He has multiple convictions for assault, fraud, and stalking, amongst others.
I would compare him to Alex Jones in the States.
All right, you appear to glorify Stephen Yaxley-Lennon.
How brave he was, standing up to the border police, not handing over his phone's pin, etc.
Okay.
You should really do some research on him and get the bigger picture.
The only reason he isn't in jail again is that the police officers screwed up and didn't cross their T's and dot their I's, which is a pity.
If Alex Jones refused to hand over the pin of his phone, would you applaud him?
Signed, Dan.
Well, Dan, I don't think you really listened to the program because we were pretty clear that this guy was not the cream of the crop, so to say, and that there were so many things that you could fault him for.
I'm putting it very mildly.
But any time somebody stands up to the state that is trying to basically intrude on anyone's privacy, all of our privacy, that's a good thing.
And we're not saying he is a good person.
We're saying the way it turned out is good, and we applaud the way it turned out.
I mean, am I correct in saying that's how we summarize that?
Rob?
Yeah, you are correct.
To be fair, I think we might not have gotten around to mentioning that this guy was, in fact, a scumbag until overtime.
We might not have gotten to it on the air, and if this listener was just listening on the air, maybe that's where the confusion came in.
But, no, we are by no means fans of this person.
I'm pretty sure we said he was a bad person from the start.
I'm pretty sure.
I can't imagine us reading the story and not mentioning that.
Yeah, but in any case, yeah, we're not in any way endorsing this person or the sorts of things he's known for.
But in this particular case, like, I do think it's important that basic human rights, like a right to privacy and a right to not have your phone pin forced out of you without some sort of due process and so on, is a human right that should be available to everyone, including jerks.
Because once you start picking and choosing who's allowed to have a human right, that's not a human right anymore.
Yeah, it's not the jerk who won.
It's all of us, because this is how it works.
They go for the people that are low-hanging fruit.
They win easily against them.
Then they come for the rest of us.
So you need to be able to protect your rights no matter who is exercising them.
That's, you know, what the ACLU does.
And sometimes they wind up defending people who are not nice people, but they're doing it for the bigger picture.
And that's what this is about.
So I'm sorry if that was miscommunicated in any way.
Okay.
And one more letter.
You brought back a lot of memories for me when discussing school kids circumventing bans and restrictions in your last show.
And I thought I would share some of the fun things we used to do in high school in the early, what do you call zero zeros?
Nobody?
Aughts.
Aughts.
Aughts?
Yeah.
Okay.
You know, nobody called it that when we were living through it.
Nobody.
Yeah, we did.
Well, I didn't hear it.
I didn't know you then.
So I didn't hear you say it.
I didn't hear anybody say it.
Except maybe people trying to be wise guys or something.
But it wasn't a common phrase.
I think it took that whole decade to come up with what term to use.
Yeah.
And we didn't even call it teens when we were in the teens.
And I don't hear very many people saying, hey, we're living in the 20s.
I don't hear many people saying that.
Whatever.
It's a pet peeve of mine.
Most of our computers were running Windows NT 4.0 and had the typical restrictions you'd expect.
No running of executables, website blocking, etc.
After taking a few classes in Visual Basic, I learned the fundamentals of coding.
And with that, discovered I could hide games within the macro section of Excel.
This allowed us to share spreadsheets amongst each other and execute VB code within the Excel file to play games.
Me and a group of friends then got together and wondered how we could bring our own games and install them directly on the computers.
We discovered a neat trick that involved opening command prompt and typing net user username password slash add.
Once logged into that account, we could then escalate the privileges by going back into CMD and typing net local group administrators username slash add.
Getting this down?
Good.
This gave us full access to the local drive.
We were only able to access shared drives previously and the ability to run any executables we wanted.
We then installed games on select computers in the library to their local drive and were able to play LAN together.
This was a close secret of ours and a lot of other kids wondered how we did it.
Once Word got out and they restricted access to CMD, we took it one step further and used WinPE to create portable Windows XP USBs, which we could boot from and allow us to access the local hard drive that way.
The school wasn't able to disable USB access in the BIOS as we required that to share documents.
I believe these kinds of restrictions can benefit students, as you all mentioned, by forcing them to think creatively and find alternative ways to achieve the same goal.
We didn't use phones in class back then to begin with, so it was a non-issue.
We did, however, pass countless notes to each other, as I'm sure you all did, too.
Sorry if this email was too long.
It was not.
I thought it was quite interesting.
I hope you all have a wonderful evening.
Thank you for the amazing show.
Thank you very much for that great letter and that trip down memory lane for many of us.
We were talking about how kids today are figuring out ways to communicate amongst themselves and others without the use of phones, which are banned in many schools now.
So, thinking creatively.
It's all about thinking creatively.
Yes, Alex, go ahead.
I love that letter, too, because it was a nice trip down memory lane.
When you think about these cyber types of precautions that were placed on computers back then, they all operated under the assumption that nobody would be able to figure out what to do with the command line.
It was really kind of funny.
The command line was some kind of other world that nobody really understood what could be done with it at that particular point.
So, all this blocking, all this filtering, that could just be obviated with a little bit of knowledge about how to operate a computer through actual commands and a command line.
And I think to this day, that's still true.
So, I've got my own stories about hijinks and command lines and libraries and various things, as we all know.
And, yeah, it was a great letter.
I appreciate our listeners sharing that.
All right, and with that, I think we're going to start going to the phones.
The phones are not activated yet.
Before we go to the phones, there's a little bit of an addendum that I think we have to, no, a prequel, a prefix, whatever the word is.
What you say before, you say the rest of it.
We have added some equipment.
Kyle, do you want to talk about this?
Because we have had issues with hums, and I think those days may be over where we no longer will have issues with hums ever again, hopefully.
Yes, because I'm perfect, and you are not.
All right.
You got to that.
Everybody.
You got to that pretty quickly.
The rest of you are not.
But, no, kidding aside, we invested in a broadcast digital hybrid, so we are the next level up.
Hopefully, this will alleviate our issues.
So, enjoy and talk to us about hacking.
And, yeah, it was tested and seems to work pretty well.
We got it from an auction site, so pennies on the dollar.
And I think our thrift is going to serve us.
The funny thing is, those of you who have called in to BAI in the actual studios, you hear the same sound.
It's kind of like a burst of static you hear when the phone is picked up.
You hear that now with us.
I think we have the same system here.
Yeah, I was going to check with the engineer there that we didn't really have enough time, but I believe we have the same brand.
I don't know about the same model, but these are a little bit more substantial.
And even if there is some sort of stuff in our audio chain, I think it is able to lessen that as an encumbrance.
It also has a totally different power scheme where it is itself grounded and et cetera.
It's built a little bit more for production use.
So, let's go ahead and make use of it.
And, yeah, I really appreciate everybody's suggestions and stuff.
We may go back and refer to some of that if we invest in a new mixer or do some more changes around here.
We'll definitely refer to your advice.
But I think for now, this was the path of least complexity, and it's sort of us stepping our game up, too.
Well, we now have this new phone system.
We have a delay system.
We have compression.
It's basically turning into a BAI Studio equivalent.
So, we're going to need a rack pretty soon to put all this.
Yeah, I'm going to build a little bit of furniture so that we can mount these on a desk instead of leaning them on a couch.
Well, yeah, that's true.
That's probably not the best way to do it, but it's a start.
Do we want to test the dial tone first?
Do we have one?
Okay.
I have a dial tone there, and it sounds pretty clean.
All right.
I think we're ready to go.
All right.
So, I'm going to give out the phone number.
And the phone number becomes active when I say the last digit.
That's how it works.
802-321-4225.
The phone line is active.
Please give us a call.
And we ask if you have called recently that you give somebody else a chance so that we don't get the same voices all the time.
Yes, please.
If you're a new caller, we would love to hear from you.
And if you've called recently, maybe save it.
Save a couple questions for next time.
Am I going two rings?
Are we going two rings is what we're doing?
I don't care how many rings.
Why would I care how many rings we...
I mean...
Traditionally, it's been two.
Fine.
Two rings it is.
Who am I to step on to?
Like the postman.
Okay.
And good evening.
You're on...
Off the hook.
Go ahead.
First in Bronx, New York.
Hey.
And you sound really good.
Listen to that.
No hum at all.
I can't hear you, but that's okay.
Oh, that's great.
They can't hear me.
That's...
Now you're back on mic.
Okay.
Say it again.
I said...
That's good.
Okay.
That's good.
All right.
Let's just leave it there.
So, I'm the only one that's going to be on the line.
Go ahead.
First of all, how much would it cost to get that system for BAI, and would that fix the
problem BAI has with you call in, and it may take up to three quarters of a minute to
a minute to ring?
Oh, I don't know anything about that.
It takes that long just to ring?
Yes.
This is at the...
Whereas I called your number.
I called 802-321-4225.
Bang.
Hit.
Yeah, they have a different phone system there, and that's just the nature of the way that
they have it set up.
They could be routing some of that stuff to something that manages the calls, so they can
have multiple calls and select them as they go through call-in shows.
I'm not exactly sure what system they're using right now.
The state of telephony in this country is insane.
I have one phone line that doesn't have long-distance service and has not had it for months, and the
phone company that runs that line can't figure it out.
They're a phone company, and they can't figure out how to get long-distance.
That's where we are today.
Yeah.
But I totally understand.
I used to work for New Hotel, Bell Atlantic, Verizon, I guess is the last one.
What I want to know is, how much would it cost to have someone competent evaluate what WBAI
needs, and then we do a fundraiser to get a system that actually works?
Now, it doesn't take two, I'm sorry, it doesn't take a minute all the time to get the ring
at BAI, and I understand BAI is unique in its ability to both, so go ahead.
The issue of how long it takes for the phone to ring doesn't sound like a problem with the
phone system, sounds like a problem with the phone routing.
It's taking forever to get there, and I'd look into that, and that's not a BAI issue.
That's whatever phone company BAI is using.
We need to ask them what's going on with that.
But let me just ask you, if it takes that long for the phone to ring, once you're connected,
you're able to talk to people, right?
Once they're able to pick up.
Right.
BAI is a very complicated situation in the context that I used to be on the air a lot,
so I would tend not to call when they request calls, and then I would find that they would
check with the engineer, and the engineer said there were no calls, so then I would call.
So, in that context, that means that the host has to wait a good two minutes, three minutes.
Well, you know, the thing to keep in mind with BAI, there is, I believe, 10, maybe 12 lines.
So, getting to your call, if there are multiple phone lines ringing, will take some time.
And also, what you're hearing on the air, as here, is delayed, at least six seconds, maybe more.
And if you're listening on the internet, add more time to that.
So, it could be a minute before you even make the phone call when somebody says call now,
and a minute has passed in real time.
But because we're listening to delay, you see what I'm saying?
Totally understood from my end.
I'm talking about from the engineer's end, and from, if it's a problem with the provider,
then we need to have a, God forbid, committee to go in and get a provider that will provide
the services necessary so that we can get the information that you all are sharing every week,
and then proliferate that information throughout our friends and enemies and anybody else who will
listen.
Or, you know, we can just go in there with a cell phone and stand next to the console and
call them and see how long it takes for them to get the actual phone call.
I think that might be a lot quicker.
Kyle, did you have something?
Yeah, I just want to say, I think that might be a little bit too much.
The best thing, I think, is really getting this kind of feedback and input from people that
know the system, know what it's been like, taking that under consideration,
and then having them troubleshoot it independently.
I don't know if a committee would resolve whatever it is in the most efficient way.
But I agree that, you know, if there are idiosyncrasies, quirks, problems with it,
that it definitely should be taken under consideration from the engineering end so that
they can alleviate that on their own time and within the confines of whatever budget or
life cycle for equipment they're using and service providers.
But it's good to hear that people are paying attention and, you know, want it to work a
certain way.
Listen, caller, we do need to move on because we're trying to get a lot of calls.
But since you're our first caller on this new system, can we ask you to just test out
the connection with our friends in Signal Land as they say something?
Just want to make sure you can hear them and they can hear you.
Is that okay?
You got it.
Okay.
One of you guys out there, say something.
Here I am saying something.
Hello, caller.
Rob, you're the man.
Wow, you heard that.
Okay.
You're the man.
Alex, you've always had...
No, I wish...
I mean, you know, what I'm looking for, once again, is I...
Having been in communications and talking to people who I'm supposed to be working for,
who are supposed to understand networks and things, this is a bad thing.
When they had hands, and they had no clue.
And when you explained it to them, they still had no clue.
So you have to bear with it, Emmanuel.
Can we just test Alex's way?
Yeah, go ahead.
Keep going.
Yeah, we can.
How about this?
Can you hear me?
The skeletons dance at midnight.
You sound really clear if you're in Argentina.
Wow.
I am.
Yeah.
Okay.
That's good to know.
Listen, caller, thanks for bringing all this to our attention.
We'll ask around.
We'll look into it.
But you're our first call on the new system, and you sound great.
Would that that would be, and may you have tons of money for...
Oh, so that you can get a maker's thing in Co-op City, New York.
Okay.
Sounds good.
Thanks for your call.
Take care.
Prosper.
All right.
Wow.
Okay.
Well, that's our debut call on the new system.
The phone lines are open, 802-321-4225.
If there's anything else people wish to talk about, I asked for a different caller.
I got one.
That was an outstanding first call.
It really was.
Absolutely.
It really was.
It sounded great.
We agree more.
We have, and the phone line is definitely open, right, Kyle?
We want to make sure we hung up and it's not off the hook.
802-321-4225.
Okay.
Yeah.
Is it ringing?
And I'm going to say before the next ring, it does take a second.
So if you don't hear us initially, just as it's connecting.
So what should I do?
Okay.
You're going to pick up now.
So it's now picked up.
So they don't hear me immediately.
So I should...
By now they do.
By now they do.
Okay.
So then I'll say, good evening.
You're on WBAI.
Good evening.
Hey, how's it going?
My name's Chris.
I'm another host on WBAI, Covert Action Bulletin, Wednesdays at 9 a.m.
How's it going?
Wow.
So this is great.
Two shows talking to each other on the station.
Well, listen, I wanted to call in and just support y'all.
I saw the news about what happened at St. John's, and I have been to the last few HOPE conferences,
and I just wanted to show our support from one Wednesday WBAI host to another.
Wow.
Well, you know, since we haven't mentioned it, do you want to tell the listeners what you're referring to?
So my understanding from the emails that y'all have sent out is that somebody didn't like some kind of literature that someone put out about police at the conference.
And the conference is always a very open space for various ideas and perspectives.
And one person apparently has gotten the entire thing shut down from St. John's University.
And I'm really, really unhappy about this.
And I hope that other people are unhappy about this, too.
Oh, boy.
You would not believe how many people are unhappy about this.
So, yeah, basically what you say is completely correct.
I believe it was a pamphlet at the anarchist village that offended what I'm told is an ex-cop or possibly an ex-cop who then went directly to the president's office and got the conference canceled, which is a lot of power.
But it also shows that the person really wasn't interested in addressing the situation on the spot because nobody running the conference was aware that there was even an issue with anybody.
People saw the pamphlet and, you know, it was funny, really.
It's just kind of, you know, humorous, kind of offensive statements, but nothing that New Yorkers would, you know, would blink twice at.
So, yeah, you know, it's kind of typical of what's going on with academic institutions these days, under attack, living in fear, and basically just clamping down on speech.
And we're in the forefront of that, unfortunately.
So here we are again trying to find a place to have a simple conference that values freedom of speech.
Listen, I hope the St. John's, you know, backs down and realizes that this was a mistake to cancel the 2026 conference.
You know, if not, listen, take the year off.
Doing it every year was amazing, but take the year and let's - and I would love to talk to you all offline about how we can help, how covert action can help you all because we are big fans, and I am personally a big fan.
I've not been coming for many years, but also, I mean, you know, listen, if it weren't - as you said in the statement, if it weren't for this one particular pamphlet, it would have been something else.
It would have been - what's his name?
Who developed IceBlock.
Yes.
It would have been my friend John Kiriakou who gave, like, a really amazing presentation about the CIA, and he's a whistleblower.
It would have been somebody else.
It would have been Emma Best.
It would have been somebody else.
Absolutely.
You know, we really have to be standing up against these folks who want to take, you know, one or two things and really highlight them and say that, you know, try to shut down what we're trying to do here.
We are hackers.
We are for the freedom of information.
We are for the freedom of people.
And these folks who want to shut us down, we have to really be able to, like, fight against them.
Well, what you mentioned about hoping St. John's has a change of heart and says this is all a mistake, I have to be honest.
I'm not comfortable going back there where I know that we're under scrutiny.
I was under the impression that, you know, we were free to do as we wish, you know, within reason, obviously.
We're not going to, you know, be displaying hardcore pornography or anything like that or, you know, advocating violence or, you know, mature things that we've always done over the years.
That's what I thought the environment was.
Now that it seems to be you're constantly under scrutiny and if you say something that might offend some conservative outlook someplace and then you have to justify that, I'm not comfortable with that.
And I don't think any of our attendees would be comfortable with that either.
So, I guess, you know, the search for a new home has started again.
Alex, did you have something to add, Alex?
Alex?
Yeah, I did.
I appreciate the caller bringing up this really important issue and being so supportive of us and the station and the HOPE Conference in particular.
I really think this is a perfect example of an institution not necessarily needing a legitimate or justifiable reason.
They were just looking for an excuse.
If it wasn't one thing, it was the other.
I mean, this is basically a classic example of that platitude.
They don't need a reason, just an excuse.
And the fact that there was very little process involved here, it didn't involve Emanuel, it didn't involve 2600, it didn't involve any of us.
Nobody had any idea that any investigation was going on.
And on the one hand, St. John's is totally within its rights as a private Catholic university.
They're not an arm of the state or federal government.
They don't have to give us a due process guaranteed by the 14th Amendment.
But we would expect some kind of institutional transparency and some kind of baseline fairness if there was an investigation that would affect our ability to hold a conference there like we have done over the past several years.
And this whole thing is so disappointing.
And so I really echo Emanuel's sentiments that it's time to find a new home.
It's unfortunate because it was a great home for the conference, but we'll make do and we'll come back and it'll be better than ever.
Chris, thanks so much for your call.
And what time are you guys on?
So I'm having a hard time hearing whoever that was, but I think it's asked what time.
We are on 9 a.m.
I'm from the Covert Action Bulletin podcast.
We are Covert Action magazine founded by Philip Agee, who was in 1978, he was a CIA agent who turned into a whistleblower.
We would love to talk to you all about ways that we can help find a new home, fully understand, you know, what you're saying about, like, listen, we can't be comfortable at this space.
I will say, and I don't want to take up too much time on the air, but I will say that, you know, I went to the Wi-Fi hacking.
And even then, you know, at the last conference, even the Wi-Fi hacking was like, do not mess with the St. John's Wi-Fi.
Everyone was super respectful of the space.
The staff at St. John's were amazing.
So really, really sad to see this happen.
Yeah.
Thank you very much for your thoughts.
And best of luck with your show.
Thank you.
Take care.
Wow.
Okay.
You know, it's too bad he was not at 7 a.m.
Because then it would be diametrically opposed, 7 a.m., 7 p.m.
But I'm sure the 7 a.m. show will call us at some point, too.
802-3214-225.
And, yeah, you know, he made some very good points there.
I just want to make sure that if you attended, this is not a reflection on you.
This is not somebody saying that our attendees were awful people.
They were not.
They were amazing people.
They were the best people.
And we had similar things to say about the staff, as he did.
You know, he was complimenting the staff at St. John's.
They are terrific people.
The security team at St. John's, they were great.
We had a few instances where we needed to take care of something, and they were there for us.
And we worked together, and people were not aware of the things that were going on behind the scenes.
That's how it should work.
So very professionally run.
Unfortunately, they have no say in who stays and who goes.
I don't know what their system is, but it was basically decided before we even found out there was an issue.
So it's similar to regimes that you see in various places, and that's just all I'm going to say about that.
We have another phone call coming in, and the phone number for those of you who will be calling afterwards, 802-321-4225.
Alex, did you have something else you needed to say?
It looks like, okay, you're fine.
And good evening.
You're on off the hook.
Go ahead.
Hi, Emmanuel.
I hear you with an echo.
Hey, Rebel.
I'm sure you'll find some critique for our phone line.
Okay, yeah, you sound like you're on speaker.
Can somebody else look?
Maybe Alex or Gila or...
Yeah, I'll shut up.
I'll be quiet.
Rob?
Hello, Rebel.
Gila?
How are you?
Hi, Alex.
I'm thrilled to hear your voice tonight.
Yeah, Kyle?
What?
Okay, you know what?
We're not going to do a mic test for Rebel here.
Rebel, what's on your mind?
This is, you know, we only have an hour this week, so make it quick.
Okay, I'm really having a hard time hearing Emmanuel.
I hear everybody else but Emmanuel out of some reason.
We are working on a little bit of a game thing with Emmanuel's mic.
Can we play with that knob?
Boost it a little bit, but that was the only thing we noticed when we were testing.
Yeah.
Okay.
All right.
Um, anyway, um, did you get my email with a picture of the, um, the, um, cold cuts in
the, uh, Hackensack bus station?
Well, actually, I did see...
Can you hear me now?
Maybe somebody could just tell me what Emmanuel's saying.
All right.
Well, I guess that knob's not working.
Uh, Rebel, we did get it both times you sent it.
Yeah, I think I sent it by accident another time.
I think I...
Yeah, that's...
All right, well, I'm going to say this.
I'm going to say this, and maybe somebody can translate to Rebel for me, um, but, uh,
that's not the email address to send payphone photos.
I just heard Emmanuel just a little bit, and now I couldn't hear him.
Okay, Rebel.
What did you just say?
Rebel, you're sending it to the wrong address.
You're sending...
You should send it to...
OTH at 2600.com, no?
Okay.
Yeah, um, OTH at 2600.com is if you want to write to the radio show, but if you want to
send payphones to the magazine, as, uh, as people like to do.
Payphone photos.
Yeah.
Payphone photos to the magazine.
Um, that's a different address.
Um, I think, uh, what is it?
Payphones at 2600?
Uh, yes.
Payphones at 2600.com.
It's, uh, it's kind of, uh, you know, not non-intuitive, but yes, that, that, that
works.
Rebel, we're going to have to go now because we have other people waiting, and you call
every week and talk for a very long time, and, um, yeah, and you also seem to be the
only problem, the person that can't hear everybody, so that's, that's a problem, too.
Um, 802-321-4225 is our phone number, and, um, I think...
Go ahead.
I think you're back.
I think, uh, I had the gain turned down a little bit too much, but we'll further evaluate
that.
Well, the other callers were able to hear me.
Yeah, they didn't seem to have a problem.
I think, um, it's selective hearing loss.
I think, uh, he, he just likes to, um, uh, give us a hard time sometimes.
802-321-4225, uh, we have, um, maybe...
A little bit of time left.
Maybe he can practice the spirit of forgiveness.
Yeah, why not?
Why not?
As, uh, another call comes barreling in.
Uh, it's great.
We do this about once a month where we take phone calls on the radio station.
What happened?
They got cold feet.
They hung up, huh?
All right.
Well, the phone lines are open now.
802-321-4225.
Yeah, once a month, we take phone calls on the air.
Uh, we usually take phone calls every week on our podcast, which follows at eight o'clock
on YouTube.
But that's not happening this week because when we take phone calls here, we don't take
phone calls there or even do a show there because this takes so much out of us that we
just, uh, uh, have to, have to rest afterwards.
Okay.
We have another phone call coming in, which is still ringing.
Okay.
Good evening.
You're on off the hook.
Go ahead.
Take phone calls there or you can do a show.
All right.
I don't want to hear my voice.
Take so much out of us.
Hello?
Yes.
Go ahead.
Please turn down your radio.
Is there a phone call coming in?
Is there still ringing?
Hello?
Hello?
Yes.
Turn down your radio, please.
Go ahead.
Take phone calls there or you can do a show.
All right.
I don't want to hear my voice.
I don't want to hear my voice.
Okay.
Okay.
Uh, I don't think you know how to speak on a radio station.
Hello?
Yes.
Go ahead.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Turn down your radio.
You're causing all kinds of confusion.
We must have two lines going at the same time.
No, you have a radio that's on.
Hold on.
I'll shut my radio.
Yes.
There you go.
Turn down your radio.
Okay.
Okay.
It's off.
There we go.
Can you hear me?
Yes.
We hear you fine.
Can you hear me?
I'm calling.
I can't seem to get through on the regular BAI line anymore.
I cannot call in.
I'm a buddy.
Well, um.
And I can't get on the air at all.
Well, you can't get on the air now at that number because we have a different number.
Sorry.
I can't understand you.
You're breaking up.
Caller, so we, uh, we have a different phone number for this show than the station has for
the rest of the show.
So if you call the regular BAI number during our show, that's not going to go anywhere.
We have our own different number that you've called.
Yeah, I know.
I just want to let you know I can't get on at all.
Just letting you know.
Yeah, that's, that's, that's how it works during, during our show.
During our show, the regular BAI call in numbers are not active because we use our own
because the phone is being picked up somewhere that's not the station.
I cannot get on BAI anytime, 24 seven.
I cannot get through at all.
Just letting you know.
Okay.
Thanks a lot.
We'll, um, we'll actually pass that along.
Um, uh, and I'm a buddy and I love BAI.
I'm desperate to say hello to people.
Sure.
Well, we appreciate it.
And, um, and, and, and you're not the only caller that has spoken to this.
So we'll make sure that, uh, station staff is aware.
Thank you so much.
Love you guys.
Thank you.
You know, um, this is revenge, isn't it?
Because there are so many times, so many times in the past where the callers could hear me
and only me, and they couldn't hear you guys in signal land.
And you had to sit there and just listen to me, go back and forth with the callers.
Now it's the opposite.
Now they can hear you, but they can't hear me.
Well, in fairness, the callers said that you were breaking up.
I think it may have been that they were on a wireless connection, but I don't know that.
But why only me actually, I do know that I'm the only one that we're talking at that very
moment.
I don't know.
Okay.
You got to keep testing.
You know, this is also turning into the complaint about BAI's phone system, uh, show when we're
on a different phone system.
That's working pretty much fine.
I think you're listening to off the hook, a phone about telecommunications, computers,
it's a radio program, but, uh, yes.
And we have a caller.
Shouldn't take that long to answer that question.
Kyle, do we have a caller?
Oh yeah.
Sorry.
I lost my train of thought.
Did I really say phone?
It's a radio show.
We can play it back.
Okay.
I'm very confused.
Good evening.
You're on off the hook.
Go ahead.
Good evening.
Uh, did you guys address what happened tonight with this week with the internet that it was
down?
Oh, you know what?
We didn't.
Does anybody want to talk about that?
I do.
You guys talk about everything.
Yeah.
Go ahead.
Kyle, go ahead.
Say something about it.
Um, there have been a lot of outages and, um, one of which I believe affected a lot of the
large language models.
And from what I've seen on social media, this had something to do with the company cloud
flare, which we've talked about.
And a lot of those sites and apps and tools these days use that on, um, the front facing
part of their sites.
And it, I don't know exactly the mentality why, but basically to prevent automation, I
think, and to make sure their users can get access or other, other kinds of attacks and
problems.
So they themselves, uh, weren't able to able to mitigate themselves as a problem.
And in doing so caused a lot of those sites to go dark, but there were a lot of other,
uh, cloud service providers that were either affected by this or also having problems.
Um, but, uh, a lot of the, um, reporting on it hasn't been very thorough and you're, you're
only going to get really vague statements from these very few providers because the last
thing they want to admit is that they screwed up or they're under attack, especially if it's,
uh, uh, uh, organized group or a nation state actor, they're going to keep that information
very close lest they, uh, rattle their shareholders or whatever they care about.
Well, do you think it's the Chinese maybe doing this?
It could be anybody, uh, but state actors tend to be brazen and well-resourced.
So that's, uh, entirely possible.
Go ahead, Rob.
All right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
An interesting thing about this was just a fact that, and this, uh, the, the outage,
um, the outage with Cloudflare and, uh, some time ago with, uh, AWS, there are these very
few companies that, uh, control a large, a disproportionately large chunk of the internet
just because so much goes through them.
And a major, um, design fact of the internet was that it was meant to route around damage.
It was meant to be redundant and centralizing so much of it through the same big, powerful,
uh, you know, entities kind of messes with that.
And now we're seeing, we're seeing, I think more and more often the downside of trusting
so few people with so much of the net.
Yeah.
If I could jump in there too, for a moment, I mean, I just want to underscore Rob's point
there.
I mean, this is insane.
I mean, the Cloudflare outage here really shows that, you know, the, the web isn't broken
often by hackers like this.
It's broken by design.
There's too much power in too few hands.
And a single point of failure should never take the entire world offline like this.
This is why the internet's fundamental design, which was of decentralization, isn't just some
kind of technological ideal.
This is a survival strategy and has been a survival strategy.
We've forgotten that over the last three decades or so.
We need to return back to those ideals.
This, this yesterday was a perfect example.
Why?
Thank you very much for your call.
And, um, take care.
We're going to move on.
Eight zero two, three, two, one, four, two, two, five.
Hey, he heard what I said.
I just realized that.
Eight oh two, three, two, one, four, two, two, five is our phone number.
If you want to speak to the folks at off the hook, Gila, go ahead.
I'm just going to say, while we're waiting for the next call, my favorite thing that yesterday's
outage did was that it took down the site down detector.
Down detector went down in the cloud flare outage.
Oh my God.
I didn't know that.
Really?
That, that is my favorite fun fact.
Well, my second favorite fun fact that also took down Chad GPT, which I think there was
probably a, a, a dip in productivity in a lot of places yesterday.
But yes, down detector went down in the cloud flare outage.
And I just love the poetry of that.
They don't have a backup, a backup for down detector when down detector goes down?
Apparently not.
If down detector goes down, I think you just have to assume the internet is closed for
business.
One of us can, one of us can run something saying is down detector down?
Yes or no.
Why not?
Come on.
Let's get on.
Down detector, down detector.
Our phone line is open.
That's a problem.
Down detector.
802-321-4225.
Nobody is occupying that line right now.
802-321-4225.
And yes, you know, we are asking for support all the time here at WBAI.
Give to WBAI.org, buddy.wbai.org.
But that is the phone number, 802-321-4225 for you to call in and be on the radio and talk
to us here at Off the Hook.
So hopefully that's clear.
802-321-4225.
Hey, that worked.
We are going to take another phone call.
We only have room for a couple more at most.
Are you ready, Kyle?
All right.
Good evening.
You're on Off the Hook.
Go ahead.
Is that me?
That's you.
Yes.
Awesome.
Awesome.
You know what?
I think it's a good thing.
Yeah, I'm curious.
Do you guys ever wonder, does anybody do anything individually anymore?
I mean, because I'm not talking into a computer.
I'm not talking to Chad GTP.
And I never do this AI stuff.
You know, it's funny.
You know, I'm just one of those people who I felt like if Malcolm X read the dictionary,
if it was good enough for him, it would be good enough.
I read the dictionary.
I'm going to tell you guys something.
You know, I created these incredibly long documents on the computer, and then I ran spell check,
and maybe I had like fours, spelling, or punctuation.
I can speak and think for myself.
All right?
And the idea that if the Internet isn't working, people's lives are so radically altered.
And how long was this thing down for?
Because I didn't notice it.
You know, I don't know what to say.
Yeah.
All right.
I hear you.
We'll tell you this.
No social media.
You know what?
I guess I'm a bit of a, I don't know, not a unicorn or whatever.
I wouldn't go that far because I would never, you know, give that much credit to myself.
But I have such disdain for this whole thing.
How about this?
How about this?
You know, when that whole thing happened in Utah, Spencer Cox made a comment,
and he said that the Internet now is like a cancer.
I think that's close to verbatim.
And not only did I totally agree with him, I called his office, and I said,
you know what the problem is, though?
Because he's, you know, he's also, like, trying to stoke all these, you know,
why the guy was doing what he was doing, you know, all of his, like,
what the shooter's political, what he's subscribing to politically.
In the meantime, I said to his, you know what the problem is, though, Mr. Republican Governor?
The problem is, the problem is that the overlords, because that's what I call them,
the overlords of the Internet are Musk and Zucker Schnuck and Ellison and Bezos.
These are the overlords of this whole thing now.
And whose pocket are they in?
And whose pocket are they in?
Right?
All right, listen, we're going to leave it there.
Thank you for your call.
A lot to think about, and I appreciate the thoughts.
802-321-4225.
We have time for one more phone call, so make it a good one.
802-321-4225.
I would agree with the caller.
I was unaware of a lot of this stuff, but it's about how you use it.
It's behaviors and etiquette, like the behaviors that we have around technology.
Some of that is like social conditioning, and etiquette is the same way.
Phone etiquette used to be the same way, and we're just barely learning that on these platforms.
Alex, quickly.
I think the sentiment of the caller is exactly right.
I hope we get another caller that's kind of right on point like this.
But if we keep outsourcing our thought to large language models, we're going to forget how to think.
I think the caller was right on point with that, and I loved his zeal.
Okay, we have another phone call.
Good evening.
You're on off the hook.
Go ahead.
Kyle, you've got to pick up the phone.
You picked up?
Yeah.
Good evening.
You're on.
Go ahead.
How are you tonight?
I was just listening to you guys.
Hopefully everyone was doing well.
I heard you guys talking about Cloudflare and some chat GPT with the previous user.
I just wanted to throw out there.
Personally, I wasn't impacted by the outage that occurred, but again, that's the way the
Internet works, routing that traffic through Cloudflare through the CDN.
If it goes down, it goes down.
But just food for thought for the user on chat GPT.
You know, certainly can appreciate the spellcheck analogy, but there's also lots of other uses
that are out there, right?
There's chatbots for agents, for creating code, automating desktop flows, and lots of
cool stuff that I just wanted to throw out there that if people think about chat GPT just
as a chatbot, they should look at other things and just open their eyes to some potential
other options.
That's all I wanted to say.
Have a good night.
Thanks for your call.
Yeah, that's kind of what I was getting at, that we don't all use technology in the same
ways.
And for instance, digital art, the kind of art people are making, there's good uses and bad
uses and different things, different ways to use that stuff.
But it's up to and how the user does it, and that is in itself a subjective sort of individualistic
choice, and people won't sort of en masse move in different ways until it's well understood.
So us talking about it, discussing it, discussing unhealthy behaviors around using some of these
tools, but absolutely, you should think for yourself and don't be too reliant on them.
Well, that's going to do it for us tonight.
I want to thank everybody who called in.
Boy, that went fast.
That really went fast.
But Kyle, congrats on the new system.
Thank you so much for installing that.
It was a world of improvement, and we have to do this again real soon.
Please write to us with your additional thoughts and comments on all kinds of things that are
going on in the world of technology and hackers and things like that.
It's going to be very interesting, very busy in the weeks, months, years ahead.
We'll be back next week with another hour-long show here and over time next week at 8 o'clock,
not this week.
We will see you then.
Have a good night.
Have a good night.
Have a good night.
It's got nothing to do with you, if one can grasp it.
It's got nothing to do with you, if one can grasp it.
A series of shocks, sneakers fall apart.
But it's unrolling, witnesses falling.
It's got nothing to do with you, if one can grasp it.
It's got nothing to do with you, it's got nothing to do with you, if one can grasp it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Up the hill backwards, it'll be all right.
It's got nothing to do with you, if one can grasp it.
It's the death of love
It's got nothing to do with you
If one can grasp it
It's got nothing to do with you
If one can grasp it
More idols than realities
I'm okay, you're so, so
Yeah, yeah, yeah
Up the hill backwards
He'll be all right
Ooh
Ooh
Ooh
Ooh
Thank you.
Thank you.