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What happened?
I was flustered.
I'm sorry.
What does that mean to listeners?
They just heard us jump back in time or jump ahead in time or something like that?
Okay.
We apologize, folks, for the confusion.
Why don't we just do that again?
Hold on a second.
I'll come in fresh.
Thank you.
We'll make better sounds than that.
I think, is your microphone working?
Can we hear you?
Well, while Emma's doing that, why don't I introduce Emma to our listeners?
Okay.
Why don't you do that?
But we have other stories to go to before we go to Emma for what she's going to be doing.
But go ahead and...
Okay.
So our great friend, Emma Best, who's a big friend of the hacker community, and I would
say Emma is really infamous.
And I think, you know, the best sense of the word, right?
I mean, would you guys agree?
Emma's infamous in the best sense of the word?
Yes?
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
All right.
Good.
All right.
No arguments here.
Emma is an investigative journalist.
She's a transparency advocate who's helped expose what I think are some of the most closely
guarded secrets in government, in industry, in finance, in politics.
Emma has filed thousands.
I mean, literally thousands, probably like 10,000 at this point, public records requests.
And she's helped to bring major document troves that are breached in some manner, from national
security files to hacked and leaked archives.
She's helped to bring them to light and to make them publicly accessible.
And tonight, Emma is going to be talking to us about some really interesting stuff that's
going to be happening and happening live on the air as well.
So hopefully, Emma, you can get your sound sorted out here.
Do we have you there yet?
Yeah.
Hi.
Is this better?
That's much better.
We got you.
How are you?
Okay.
I'm good.
I don't know why my headset was not cooperating, but glad we got it working.
A lot of mysterious things happen to us here.
We learn not to even question it anymore.
So, Emma, we're going to get to what you're going to be sharing with us in just a little
bit.
I just wanted to go over a couple of fun stories here, as is our tradition.
There was a KFC ad campaign that involved hackers.
Did you guys hear about this?
You know, I only just got this story.
And I'm not sure if this is confined to New Zealand or if just all the media coverage
about it is in New Zealand.
And I just had a hell of a battle trying to read the story because everybody wanted
me to pay for a subscription to a newspaper in a foreign country to read one story.
But apparently there was a KFC ad campaign that has become one of this year's most complained
about commercials.
And according to the New Zealand Herald, it has now been fried.
That's right.
KFC has removed the contentious advertising campaign featuring a creepy hacker wearing
a Colonel Sanders mask.
The removal of the campaign has headed off an Advertising Standards Authority investigation
into whether it breached advertising rules.
After the commercials became one of the most complained about campaigns this year, the ASA's
Complaints Board had accepted 65 complaints about the ad.
Yeah, this must be New Zealand.
65 is a lot of people.
Which some people said glorified and trivialized cybercrime.
Wow.
That's kind of interesting there.
As part of the self-regulatory process, advertisers have the option of amending or removing their
advertising after receiving a complaint, said the ASA.
In this case, the advertiser confirmed they had removed the advertisement.
Given the advertiser's cooperative engagement with the process by removing the advertisement,
the chair ruled the complaint was settled.
Now, why did people object to this hacker in a Colonel Sanders outfit?
Well, based on various concerns, it gave the impression to some consumers that they had
actually been hacked.
It was placed inappropriately in the TVNZ Plus app, and I'm certain that this is from New
Zealand.
It was scary for children, young people, and older people.
Wait a minute, it doesn't leave anybody.
So, just an image of a hacker is scary for children, young people, and older people.
Good to know.
Good to know.
Rob, Gila, you have your hands raised.
What?
Yeah, I just did something very questionable to Gila here, and I apologize.
Some might even say mean.
I pulled up one of the ads in question, which are still visible on KFC New Zealand's YouTube,
and I pressed play on it without warning Gila.
Gila, would you like to describe your reaction?
Well, I'm very glad I checked to make sure our microphone was on, because otherwise I probably
would have caused us some serious FCC violations.
I jumped about a foot and a half.
It was actually kind of scary.
So, as neither a child nor, I suppose, an older adult, yeah, it was scary.
Well, what exactly happened in the ad?
Well, first of all, you were talking, and then all of a sudden someone in New Zealand
accent was talking, which was just kind of threw me in the first place.
But also, it was fuzzy and voice boxy and didn't like it.
It's got early 90s kind of aesthetic, sort of.
Would you say that?
What they're going for, I think, is around the early, maybe mid-2000s anonymous aesthetic,
because it's somebody in a hoodie.
Of course, it's a hoodie.
It's red.
Side note, I want the hoodie.
Yeah.
And this person is wearing a Colonel Sanders plastic mask, reminiscent of the famous V for
Vendetta mask.
And in this electronic filtered voice, it's saying things like, hello, New Zealand, I am
the Colonel Hacker.
And for seven weeks, I'm hacking the KFC menu and talking about all sorts of price things
that are going on.
And this is legitimately frightening video here.
Oh, come on.
Does nobody have a sense of humor anymore?
It's just, I mean, do people really think that their TV sets have been hacked with somebody
looking like Colonel Sanders and a hacker at the same time?
I didn't think we'd been hacked at all.
Sorry.
But I don't like masks.
I'm not a Halloween person.
I find masks to be frightening.
So the buzzing and the talking and it sounded menacing.
And having not been watching when Rob pressed play on YouTube just now, yes, it did take me
aback a little bit.
You know what frightens me?
Processed food.
Fast food.
Yeah.
All that.
You know, they don't call it Kentucky Fried Chicken anymore because it's not technically
chicken.
They're just wingless masses of meat.
I know that's an urban legend, but still, I like to repeat it.
I still have a couple more complaints.
It caused fear.
Oh, yeah.
And it caused fear and were offensive for people who had been scammed.
So if you've been scammed, you're another level of person there that might take offense
at this.
And finally, and this is the worst one of all, it glorified and made humor of hacking.
Wow.
I mean.
Well, we can't have that.
I can never go to New Zealand now because I do that all the time.
Yes, Alex, go ahead.
I find this whole thing bizarre.
And to be candid, I haven't seen the commercial.
Nobody's scared me with it or, you know, blown it up in my ear, as Rob did to poor Gila over
there.
But what I find kind of strange is like, this seems to be like a lot of moral panic about
this, right?
About some hacker on a red hoodie.
But, you know, he's selling fried chicken, right?
I mean, the really scary stuff to me are the actual data breaches that are happening constantly
every day where our personal information is released out into the wild or is being traded
amongst third-party affiliates without our knowledge or our consent.
Like, that's the really scary stuff to me.
Not some, you know, hacker or proverbial hacker in a hoodie because, you know, we don't all
wear hoodies all the time.
I mean, you have a hoodie on right now, Emanuel.
You have a hoodie on, Kyle.
You have a hoodie on, Rob.
Well, we're cold.
It's chilly.
You know, we have to wear things like that.
Yeah, yeah.
So I'm saying, I think there's a degree of moral panic over this that's unjustified.
And the real outrage should be about the data breaches that are happening time and time
again.
Well, I mean, that's not necessarily KFC's responsibility to be responsible about, you know, reporting data
breaches, but their own data breaches, perhaps.
Yes, I'm not up to date on their latest security issues.
But, you know, it's just, it's the tone of these complaints.
It is deeply irresponsible to see a global brand like KFC use hacking as a sales hook and trivializing
an issue that causes so much online harm and at a time when the need to educate and warn
of cyber crimes has never been higher.
Give me a break.
It's a joke, you know.
And what everybody's missing, the anniversary of the Max Headroom hack.
Does nobody remember this in Chicago?
I think it was 1987, was it?
Basically, two TV stations, Channel 9, Channel 11, WGN, WTTW, were both, they both had their
microwave relay overpowered by another source.
And you had this Max Headroom character who was talking kind of like the person that Gila
described just now.
I wouldn't be surprised if it was based on that.
And it was kind of a joke, you know, and a nod to some major part of history, which
everybody still talks about, and they never caught the person behind it.
So, you know, one thing people didn't do back then was complain about how scary it was because
it was just kind of interesting.
So, I don't know.
I just think sometimes we go a little overboard taking things seriously.
And the fact that KFC actually faced some kind of legal action because they scared people,
I'm sorry, that's too much.
Cliché notwithstanding, I think like because it's on some kind of app or on a device and
that people are hypersensitive to the idea of their device being taken over, it is maybe
an annoyance or frustration.
But that they're using a style or playing off of the stereotype, I mean, that's a marketing
choice, whether it works or not, or clearly if people don't like it, they're registering
it.
But I don't know that it's, as Alex pointed out, that it's actually that scary.
It's just, I mean, if you see a pop-up or something for a horror film or some other sort
of frightening genre, do you all of a sudden have a panic about specific kinds of manslaughter
or homicide or something like that?
I mean, it doesn't really compare to the actual crisis.
We had a Robert F. Kennedy Jr. press conference on before, and that scared the hell out of me.
But I'm not filing complaints with the FCC about it, you know?
We have to have thick skin here.
Anyway, one more story about signals being taken over.
ESPN says its signal was hacked on Sunday.
This is ESPN 97.5 in Houston.
Listeners reported unusual audio as the station's signal was temporarily taken over by an unknown
source.
Might be that comment out there.
Who knows?
An unknown voice reportedly aired offensive messages and promoted social media accounts
on Reddit and Twitter and Blue Sky.
Hey, Blue Sky, wow, you finally made the big time.
Station officials posted on Twitter, because that's where station officials post things
these days, that the audio didn't come from the radio station.
Instead, they were working to fix the issue.
They thanked listeners who alerted them.
You know, if somebody did do something bad at the radio station, that's exactly what they'd
say.
They'd say that somebody took us over.
You know, it's like when a congressperson says something racist on social media, and
they say, oh, I was hacked.
Someone else did that.
It wasn't me.
And of course, it always is.
The voice on the Houston hack sounded AI generated.
No further details have been released.
And the message that was sent out over Twitter in the past hour, there was audio airing on
97.5 FM signal that didn't come from the radio station.
Our signal had been hacked.
We are actively trying to rectify the problem.
We appreciate the many of you who posted to alert us of the issue.
I don't know if anybody was terrified, but yeah, these things seem to be happening.
Okay, moving on.
We have Emma Best with us.
And whenever Emma Best joins us, there's always some news to basically share.
Of course, Emma is one of the founders of Distributed Denial of Secrets, DDoS Secrets.
Their website, of course, is blocked by many, but celebrated by even more.
Emma, what do you got for us tonight?
Hi.
Well, we just released a new batch of Epstein materials a few days ago.
We announced about 20,000 emails and attachments that haven't been previously released, and
they're unredacted from one of Jeffrey Epstein's email accounts.
For the bulk of the emails, we are restricting those to verified journalists because there's
a lot of information in there about the cases, which includes victim information.
And so until we can finish going through everything and making sure that we're not going to put
anyone who's already been victimized at risk again or reveal any names of victims that haven't
been previously publicized, we're holding most of those back.
But today, we are releasing the first batch of the public emails, the first tranche, which
contains about 13,000 of the emails or 69.5% of the total.
And Emma, I want to jump in here for a second.
I mean, this is incredibly interesting.
And as I understand this, so DDoS Secrets, DDoS Secrets, received about 20,000 or so unredacted
emails and attachments from one of Jeffrey Epstein's accounts.
And this would cover a span basically of 19 years.
And these emails, these documents, these records, these orders in particular shed a lot of new
light on the social network, his finances, the legal cases against him.
And do I understand you correctly in saying that while this trove of documents was available
only to vetted journalists, you're releasing them tonight and on air, like as in right now,
to the public?
That's right.
The first portion of them, several thousand emails, about 5,000 or 6,000, we are still
holding back, so we can continue to review those.
But these first batch of emails, we were able to determine there's really no risk of victim
information being in there.
And since they at least reveal information about Epstein's personal interests, his buying
habits, a bit of his travel information, it's really important and interesting to get it
out there.
And while these are some of the less impactful emails in the cache, there's still a lot of
things in there that I think at least are very interesting.
Fascinating.
Fascinating.
You know, the whole nation, the whole world was following the Epstein case with the emails,
the government shutdown and everything.
Basically, when they reopened the government, they said that the vote would take place on
whether or not to release those emails.
But what they didn't tell people was that the Department of Justice, the Compromised Department
of Justice, would be able to redact whatever they felt like redacting.
And that means that the evidence that people are interested in seeing as to whether or not
Trump is involved, you might never see that.
You might never see that because of the power that they have to restrict and control what is
what is released.
Now, these documents here, I imagine they're not privy to that kind of censorship.
No, no.
And the only thing that we are looking at when redacting and restricting access to these
emails is, is there victim information in there that is not already public?
And in a lot of cases, that's very difficult to determine readily.
Epstein, in a lot of his emails, and some of these, you can see some of this, you can
see in the emails that have been publicly released by House Oversight.
He uses horrible spelling throughout.
There's constant typos.
There's references to people that only contain first names.
And there's a lot of things in there that you can't just look at it and be sure, like,
okay, this is someone who was not victimized.
One of the more basic examples of that is going through his LinkedIn invitations and connections.
There's one with a female model, and her name is included.
And so that's the sort of thing we're at least going to initially hold back so that we can
look more into that and determine, like, okay, is this, is this just a connection that Epstein
had, or is she someone that was victimized by him and his network?
Yeah.
Now, Emma, this is really fascinating and amazing and kind of groundbreaking, I have to say, that
you're releasing all this information tonight to the public, and presumably soon enough,
you're going to be able to give out a URL where these documents and records reside at
the moment.
And what I want to have a better understanding of as well is, you know, how did you get these?
Can you talk about that at all?
I know, obviously, you have an obligation to protect sources and methods as a journalist.
And that's, so that's number one.
And then number two is, Bloomberg had done a lot of reporting on the Epstein files as
well and received some kind of trunch.
But so this is presumably the same type of data or a lot of the same data that Bloomberg
had in its possession.
But now you're allowing the entirety of the world and the public to view all of this information
for itself.
Would that be accurate?
Yes, from what we can tell, Bloomberg, several months before we received the data, received
a cache of emails from the same account.
And from what we've been able to determine, the contents are virtually identical.
It seems simply that Bloomberg's extends a little bit farther into the future, like as
as in the archive that Bloomberg received was made slightly later than the one that DDoS
secrets received.
So if I understand correctly, this is something that Bloomberg could have released, but chose
not to.
Bloomberg has been doing a really great job at reporting on the emails.
And we've we've worked with reporters from Bloomberg on a lot of on some other things.
And it's a great team.
And they they really share our concerns about, you know, the victim information.
And, you know, so to them, it's an issue of responsibility.
Largely, they can't just put it all out there and their organization is not geared to the
review and release of these kinds of of materials.
Now, now the there's other aspects of this, too, Emma, that I think are incredibly interesting.
And you and I have chatted a little bit back and forth about this, but, you know, especially
of relevance to our listeners, there's something in here that I think, you know, some some listeners
may find actually quite chilling.
And this is that the fact that there's evidence that Epstein's accounts were being actively
targeted by threat actors while he was in prison and in the periods leading up to his death.
Is that correct?
Yes, there are in the emails and in the batch that we've been doing.
We are that we just released.
There are numerous security alerts for his Google accounts.
A lot of this shows simply, you know, unexpected login attempts or, you know, a new device connected
alerting, hey, you just logged in from Paris.
You weren't in Paris last time.
But as you get a little bit later into the cache and look at it, there's emails that are much
more clearly, I guess we should say, alarming in terms of what they they indicate.
So Epstein returned to jail in 2019, in the summer of 2019.
And within a few days, his Google account was being targeted.
And what's most interesting is that he wasn't the account wasn't just sending critical security
alerts and that sort of thing.
But there were at least two instances looking at them now where an archive of the Google
data for one of his Gmail accounts was was requested.
And it seems to have gone through as far as we can tell.
So there's additional there are likely additional caches out there that have been obtained by
people.
Now, I do have to be clear.
It is possible that this was something that was being done by Epstein's estate, by his employees.
There's no way to know that from the security alerts.
However, the timing is extremely suggestive.
This would be something that Google would know, correct?
Yes.
Google would at least know more about it.
So yes, looking at the timeline a little bit more exactly, Epstein went to prison July 6th in
2019.
And by the 14th, he had started getting a series of the of the alerts on the 17th.
That is when the Google accounts were seemingly archived.
And the gosh, this is this is very this is such a strange situation.
The the attempts continue until August 8th, 2019, after which there is a significant break
in the attempts.
And what's what's interesting about that day is it's two days before Epstein died.
Wow.
And it goes without saying, of course, that Epstein himself would not have been able to do this
from from prison, would not have been able to request archives of his Gmail account or
anything like that.
Right.
And again, we can't rule out that it was a proxy doing it, but that is information that
his estate and Google would would have.
Yeah.
And also, I would say, too, that if this was done in response to some kind of legal process,
namely, let's say, if, you know, a House committee had subpoenaed Google for these particular documents
and records, I don't think that there would be a record of the archive that they made in
this particular account, because it would have been done through a separate privileged account
that wouldn't let the targeted account know that it was being archived.
Exactly.
Yeah.
And we've we've seen instances where they do give notifications eventually when usually
when a seal or a gag order is removed and they will say, hi, we can't tell you anything
more, but there was a subpoena that forced us to hand over your data.
And we did.
And in fact, we do see one such notification in Epstein's emails from around 2007, where
they they're notified by Yahoo that, hey, there's a there's a criminal case against you, as
you know, by now.
And we were subpoenaed for the account information and we provided it.
And what's not there are these are these security alerts.
So, yes, that's exactly right.
And what I want to dig into a little bit about the contents here, if you don't mind, Emma,
I mean, since and presumably you don't because you're releasing this publicly tonight on air.
So, you know, let's let's let's dig into some of the contents.
I mean, you mentioned, you know, some of the background information you get from Google
about these archives and things.
And you also mentioned to me previously that there were some interesting orders in here.
Can you talk a little bit about that and about how these orders and various instructions
seem to indicate surveillance surrounding Epstein?
Well, like I said, there there were the subpoenas for the account and I'm actually not sure exactly
which thing you are you are referring to.
Like if there were certain things monitoring different login attempts from different areas,
et cetera, you know, like essentially try almost like in like a geolocation type of of operation
with respect to Epstein or his affiliates.
I'm not sure if that was an intent that was happening at the time, but it is certainly
something that's opened up in the data that we we have because it gives alerts about your
an IP login was was detected in this city, in this country.
We we detected you over here.
At times it specifies what device is connected to an account.
And these things, you know, certainly make it possible to, to begin to construct a general
timeline of some of Epstein's travels.
Now, of course, some of these, some of these login attempts may be illegitimate, but we can't
tell that for certain from the alerts.
It's it's not nearly as much of a red flag that, you know, he's getting security alerts
in 2017, as opposed to when he's in prison and could not be logging into his accounts.
And and Emma, this is kind of a basic cyber hygiene, cybersecurity question for you.
Is there any indication that two factor authentication was turned on for Epstein's accounts?
Not at the time.
My understanding now, though, is that the accounts did have 2FA enabled.
One of the things that our source indicated without going into any other details about
the nature of their access, it was apparently terminated when 2FA was enabled after Epstein's
death.
And they did provide some evidence supporting that.
But yeah.
Wow.
Well, that's interesting.
That's a, I think, a revelatory fact here about, you know, how threat actors could have
accessed the account really kind of makes a lot of sense, too.
And you think about how an archive of a particular account could be created.
And then you have this huge tranche of documents circulating around now.
So that's really, really fascinating.
And and each each breach allows more elevated access because a lot of these a lot of these
accounts are linked.
The Yahoo account, one of the reasons they got all the alerts from Google is it was listed
as the recovery address.
So access to that sort of thing enables people to leverage it into getting access to other accounts.
And there are places in the emails where Epstein outright spells out what his passwords are
for some accounts.
And they were not good passwords.
One was mermaid.
I forget what the what the other one that they displayed was, but it was a similar, very short
one word, six or seven letters, all lowercase password.
So these could have been brute force at some point.
Anyhow.
Right.
I mean, that's absolutely so there's there's that.
Right.
That's kind of kind of crazy.
At least some of his information also showed up in various breaches.
As you mentioned earlier, you know, one of the concerns is all these breaches happen and,
you know, people's email addresses and their login information for that account gets leaked.
And at least that happened to Epstein, it seems, at least several times.
Wow.
So quite literally, the KFC Colonel Hacker might have been able to get into Epstein's account
if he was targeting him correctly is is what it seems like.
Hey, I just got an alert on my phone that 13000 emails, Epstein emails have just been released
live and off the hook.
So word is getting out.
So I guess the next thing is, how do people see these things?
People can go to our website.
DDoSsecrets.com, DDoSsecrets.com, and they will see there are two entries on the front page
that relate to Epstein.
One is the Epstein emails entry, which deals specifically with this account and is primarily
a way for people to request access to the restricted materials.
There's also the Epstein files entry, which contains everything we've been able to accumulate
so far.
The Department of Justice releases, house oversight, FOIA releases, court records.
There's a version of his FBI and Interpol file in there, as well as about a thousand emails
between Epstein and Ehud Brach.
Wow, so you even have the Interpol file.
I mean, this is going to be just fascinating reading for anybody who has an interest in
government documents, et cetera.
I mean, this is really incredible that you're doing this, Emma.
I want to talk a minute, too, about not just Epstein, but about Ghislaine Maxwell, because
my understanding, as well as that, her accounts were also being targeted.
I can't be sure at the moment.
I'm not sure off the top of my head if her accounts in particular were targeted.
There are emails that Epstein received from some of his lawyers and employees that are
saying, like, I think I got hacked.
Someone seems to have logged into my account.
So it is the sort of thing that happened, it seems.
But off the top of my head, I'm not sure if she was on the list of people who said that.
But her accounts were absolutely being looked at by the U.S. government.
They were aware of the GMAX accounts, it seems, based off the court documents that are public
and just everything else that we've seen and learned.
Now, Emmanuel, I think Emma had asked us to queue up an audio file.
I don't know if you have that file by any chance.
Yes, I do.
I have it right here.
Emma, do you want to give some context to the audio file that we're about to play on air for all our listeners?
Sure.
So this file is from an FBI meeting that happened in August 2020.
It happened between Val Brokesmith and several FBI agents in the Los Angeles office.
Val Brokesmith is a little bit famous for the Sony hack.
He helped distribute some of the emails.
He received his father's Deutsche Bank files after his father committed suicide.
And Val became involved in all sorts of things, hooked up with the FBI,
and ultimately became an informant and tried to entrap and frame a lot of people.
But one of the most interesting things is he mentions trying to hack Epstein
and offers to do it again for the government.
Let's take a listen.
Well, look, am I going to get in trouble for telling you guys any of this shit?
No, you tell me like you murdered someone.
I never murdered anybody, okay?
No murder, okay?
I, you know, like New York Times asked me to hack Epstein, okay?
So David wanted me to hack Epstein.
So I did it, and, you know, everyone's very, I didn't, I'm sorry, I didn't do it.
I started the process of doing it, and I gave him the list of passwords, and I gave him the list.
And I have this on email to prove to you, okay, the passwords, and I gave him the list of logins.
That's it, all the credentials.
And I gave him the jizzlanes credentials as well.
I did not break in.
I did try, okay, I made an attempt, but it was a double authentication.
Someone already got to it.
So I don't know whose number it is, but I have a phone number if you want to trace it.
It would be helpful for you guys.
Okay, so Emma would like to explain the significance of that.
So, yeah, that was just over a year.
I think it was a year and two days exactly after Epstein's death.
And in the audio, he says that he was asked to hack Epstein by the New York Times.
And I should mention here that Val has made a lot of allegations against people at the New York Times.
Many of them are provably exaggerations or outright falsehoods.
So that - I do not want to say that the New York Times had any role in encouraging Val to do this.
But I do absolutely believe that he tried to access Epstein's accounts and that he went through some of these old breaches, found the emails and passwords that supposedly belonged to Epstein and - excuse me - to Epstein and Ghislaine.
And, yeah, offered to hack things for the FBI.
The FBI's general response to several of those offers, because Val made this offer, this sort of offer, several times.
The FBI's general response goes back to what we were saying earlier.
They said, if we want access to this, we have legal channels.
We'll just serve a subpoena.
We don't need to hack this sort of thing.
But it's a very interesting indication of just how many people were looking at his accounts, were trying to get access.
And Val was not a good hacker.
He did not really know what he was doing.
He - I think a lot of listeners will be familiar with the term script kitty.
That was Val.
So that just gives an idea of, like, the level of the breadth of people that were looking at this and trying to do it.
You know as well that nation states were doing this.
So we have everyone from low-level cooperators and informants to presumably cyber criminals and nation states trying to access these emails in every way they could.
We're speaking with Emma Best from Distributed Denial of Secrets concerning the latest release of Jeffrey Epstein files that's just being released right now, live as we speak on the Distributed Denial of Secrets site.
You know, Emma, when something like this happens, when you release something that a ton of people are going to be interested in, what generally do you have to contend with at that point?
Anxiety, stress, and harassment.
Yeah, I can imagine.
I mean, I hope your bandwidth is up to the task.
It's draining, and, you know, all we can do with this sort of thing is just keep going at the best pace we can.
You know, we are really interested in getting the emails and the information into as many people's hands as possible.
But one thing we keep emphasizing to the journalists that we're talking to about it is this is not a move fast and break things situation.
We all want to break stories.
We all want, you know, to report as much as we can.
But it would be so easy to mess up with some of this.
So slow and steady, and the fact that the first batch was able to be almost 70% of the emails, I'm very happy about.
And we're just going to keep going at the best pace that we can while still being safe.
Go ahead, Alex.
And, Emma, can you talk about some of the file formats here that we're going to be dealing with?
Because sometimes it can be difficult to access this particular type of data if it's not readily accessible.
Are these in PDF formats?
Are they in EML formats?
Do you want to talk about how our listeners can actually access the data once they go to your site?
They are in EML files, which we have zipped together into a folder.
So people can download the zip file, extract it, and then open the emails in either Thunderbird or Mail.
I think it's the name of the Apple app.
I'm not sure.
Yes.
As well as things like Notepad to look right at the raw metadata and information.
And because of the raw format, it's also easy for people to use tools like grep to go through and try and search for terms and points of interest.
Hey, Emma, you bring up something really interesting.
So is the header data available for these emails?
Yes.
It is.
So if the header data is available for these emails, then presumably you should be able to look at essentially the relay data within the header and perhaps extract the originating IP for some of the senders.
Would that be correct?
That I am not sure about how much can be extracted in terms of the sender's IP address.
In a lot of instances, the IP addresses that are listed belong to the servers that were used.
So that's a little bit up in the air.
Are they full headers, the extended headers?
Yes.
Okay.
Well, then if they exist, people will find them for sure.
And the point that I want to just make there really quickly is that if you have that, then you might be able to actually geolocate where somebody was when they sent a particular message.
And that could be really quite interesting and powerful.
I was just going to ask, is there anything specifically related to this that you're asking the public in analyzing this or to fill in gaps for what you've received so far?
And also, could you just let our listeners know how they can submit something in general to DDoS Secrets?
And if they're unfamiliar with that process, just maybe fill in some of the details about where and how.
So information on how to submit to us can be found at DDoSSecrets.com slash submit.
And I'm sorry, what was the other part of the question?
I got so focused on remembering the URL.
No, no problem.
Just real quick to sum up, is there any gap or any information you're looking for related to this?
And is there anything you're asking help for from the public in analyzing this?
Maybe something you've already mentioned, but just you'd like to elaborate on before we finish?
One of the things that we have begun to see released through official channels are some indications of flight records and where he was at different times.
So we can use that as a starting point for some of these login notifications and other emails to figure out, okay, was this likely legitimately Epstein?
Was this provably not him?
Does this indicate a new data point in terms of when and where he has been places?
And there are thousands of emails like that that have potentially relevant data that can be compiled.
And that sort of task is very well suited for crowdsourcing.
And I guess the million dollar question on all of our minds is, is Trump mentioned in these emails or is there an efficient way of searching to see how many times?
The mentions of Trump that I have found in these emails so far have all been automated emails, news, news alerts, and that sort of thing.
There have been a few books that Epstein bought that are relevant to Trump, as well as books on the Panama Papers investigation.
Unfortunately, this particular set does not reveal a lot about his relationship with Trump, but it shows a lot of details with his lawyers, with his social network, how he conspired with different people to kill the cases on things.
And in some of the emails, they essentially admit to the allegations against Epstein.
These are things that we're going to have to take a little bit more time reviewing and making sure they're properly redacted.
But they admit to underage strippers, they pose questions about, hey, if I travel to a to a location where the age of consent is under 18 and bring a girl there, is anything is anything illegal?
And his lawyers respond, no, that's totally legal.
Wow.
Well, that's definitely that's definitely one to to showcase here.
Emma, in the minute we have left, can you once again give out how people can access this and also how people can help with with what you're doing and with your organization?
And I hope you join us for overtime at eight o'clock afterwards.
So, again, if people want to submit more information, DDoSsecrets.com slash submit.
The Epstein data sets can be found on the front page of DDoSsecrets.com.
And the Epstein files data set has a link to where we've made most of the files really so far searchable.
And if people want to help donate to keep us going, we are a 501c3.
We can we accept donations at donorbox.org slash DDoSsecrets.
OK, Alex, very quickly.
Yeah, Emma, I just want to say I think that you and DDoSsecrets are doing the really hard, unglamorous work of democracy here.
You're taking documents that powerful people want buried and you're putting them where everybody can see them.
You know, one one cache of documents, as you know, can rewrite decades of official history if the public gets to read it directly.
And that's what you're doing.
I really applaud you.
And I think I think we all owe you a debt of gratitude for for what you're doing and the risks that you take on a daily basis.
Thank you.
So thank you for having me.
Democracy in Action here on WBAI.
You can write to us, OTH at 2600.com.
And please support WBAI.
Give to WBAI.org or Buddy.WBAI.org.
We are going over to overtime at eight o'clock on YouTube channel 2600 or the link on top of 2600.com.
Good night.


And welcome everybody to Off the Hook Overtime here on YouTube.
Emmanuel here, Kyle, you make it?
Hiya, how you doing?
And out in the signal land we have Alex.
Yep.
And we have Rob.
Hello, yes.
And we have Gila.
Yes.
Okay, did we have Emma or not?
It appears that Emma has departed, but we definitely appreciated them joining us for our radio hour.
And there's a lot we've been given to talk about, a lot we've been given to go over.
And we are also, I can confirm, live on YouTube and sounding okay.
Okay, always good to hear that.
Any thoughts or feelings or feedback on the last hour?
Because it was pretty monumental.
It was.
And for those who may not have been listening to our radio hour, Emma Best of Distributed Denial of Secrets.
That's at ddossecrets.com, D-D-O-secrets.com, was talking about the organization's release of a batch of new Epstein emails, unredacted and in plain text searchable format.
So there is definitely a lot of interesting stuff in here that is waiting to be discovered by people who are interested in diving into this data.
Yeah, I wonder how difficult it is to actually get the data at the moment.
I can imagine that the servers are probably flooded.
It appears to be working as intended so far.
There is a download link for a zip file.
That zip file contains the EML files, which are really just plain text documents, one for each email.
And I just heard from Emma, who unfortunately had to go away from their keyboard.
So she sends her very best to us.
And, you know, I think it was pretty extraordinary radio, to be honest with you.
Is that a joke, Alex, that sends her best?
Emma Best.
Pretty funny there.
Pretty funny.
Actually, that was an unintentional pun.
That's right.
I will say that in the chat, folks are sending a lot of positive feedback about the interview.
People were fascinated.
People heard the whole thing and loved it.
Emma's the best, says our friend Lex.
I don't know Emma, but I enjoyed listening the last hour.
Someone says DDoS Secrets has...
Hold on, I want to make sure I get that all correct.
DDoS Secrets has been supplying the journalists of the world with some of the best stuff for a long time now.
We've got 37 people with us right now.
Hello, everybody.
And, yeah, everybody is very excited.
And Johnny Fusion is looking for one of the Colonel Sanders masks.
Yeah, I want to see that commercial.
I really do.
As long as you're prepared for it, it's fine.
Just if you're not ready for it, it will scare the pants off you.
Yeah, it is on the KFCNZ YouTube account.
And, Emmanuel, you should see the link.
I've sent it to our internal list.
But, of course, we can't watch other YouTube while we're streaming on YouTube.
That would just be madness.
So, you know, those of you out there, you can take a look at it and see what you think.
Would that be recursion?
Yes.
And it's on KFCNZ's Shorts page, not their regular videos page.
It's their YouTube Shorts.
All right.
Well, it's something to look forward to, I guess.
We are going to open up the phone lines in just a moment.
But I wanted to give people any more chance to comment while I hit the right buttons.
Well, I've got the files here.
We can start to go through some things, you know, while we're on overtime.
Did you get all the files just now?
Was it that quick, or did you have them before?
Well, I did have some advanced preview, I have to say.
So I knew what was coming out.
But I hadn't really had any chance to take a look at it because I had been working and preparing for the show.
But I'm taking a look now, and it's a lot of files.
It is a lot.
It's a lot of EML files.
What's an EML file?
It's not a format I use.
It's an EML format.
Yeah, it is a plain text file.
It's basically a TXT file.
But it's an EML, so it contains all the headers, metadata, and all that good stuff.
And if you're accustomed to looking at the raw text format of an EML, you know what you're looking at.
And if not, and you bring it up in any email reader program, like Thunderbird or whatever else, it will present it to you in the fashion in which you can recognize an email.
Now, we made reference to the headers later in the show, and those are extremely important.
If you know what you're looking for, you can find them in headers because all kinds of routing information is hidden in there, times and dates and things like that.
So those .eml files can be very, very significant, not so much in addition to the messages that are actually contained in the email, but also for the metadata in the headers.
And I look forward to perusing those.
Yep, there's definitely interesting stuff.
There is Jeffrey Epstein was subscribed to a lot of news.
And so throwing search terms in there for things that have been discussed in the news, like Trump, brings back a ton of results that are just all news stories being sent to him.
There are accounts that he had.
You can see things he bought on Amazon and the shipping confirmations and the thing begging for, you know, reviews of your product.
Are you satisfied with your book?
Oh, God, I own one of the CDs he owns.
You know, that's bound to happen, Gila.
So let's make our peace with it now.
Yeah, I'm trying.
Sorry.
Did you buy it used?
Maybe it's his copy.
Ew, no, ew.
All right, all right.
There are emails that he got from eHarmony because he was using that service in 2014.
So, yeah, if you were stood up on eHarmony in 2014, maybe you dodged a bullet.
I mean, other weird things, too.
Like I'm seeing he returned a set of bath rugs that were classic Chevy Chevron designs by D's Text Bath Rugs Collections and got a $29.99 credit for this.
I mean, you know, kind of crazy things, but also interesting, too, because you get the last four digits.
No, you get his expiration date of his credit card for his American Express in there.
Well, that's the kind of thing that turns you on.
I guess that's the treasure trove information with expiry dates of credit cards.
But there are doubtless really significant things, both overt and covert, in these emails that we're going to uncover if we crowdsource it and look it over.
Yeah, yeah, it's really kind of extraordinary what Emma was able to do.
And, you know, I think we forget that this is what they deal with day in and day out.
I mean, they deal with all this leaked data for many years now, and they deal with legal threats, and they deal with people harassing them and threatening them.
And, you know, it's like, and they just stand up.
They don't care.
They don't give a shit.
Well, I mean, did you notice how careful they were with how information is given out, protecting the victims and not jumping to conclusions?
I mean, that is what journalism is all about.
You know, you don't write the story before you do the research.
You get the research, and you draw conclusions based on that, and you're open to different interpretations.
And that's how we all need to approach this.
Yeah, Gila.
So there is something fun that we wrestled up here, which is that, you know, sometimes you can take an email and sign it up for stuff.
And one thing that we've talked about a lot is what happens to your accounts when you die.
And there are a ton of emails in these accounts that came in after Jeffrey Epstein shuffled off this mortal coil.
Someone signed up one of his email addresses to a bunch of Trump mailing lists.
Oh, boy.
With the support, with the username, pedophile should be tried.
So there are a bunch of emails that are just addressed to pedophiles.
And then you get the standard direct mail goo, which is, I'm entertained.
You know, pedophiles, we need to tell you something.
Wow.
Okay.
Well, you'll find things like that, too, I guess.
Interesting.
All right.
Shall we open up the phones?
I'm ready.
Alex, you haven't blinked in two minutes.
I know this is fascinating stuff, but I'm going to come back down to Earth for a second here.
It's a lot being released right now.
And I imagine many, many people throughout the world have similar expressions on their faces right now.
Well, I'm sure.
I mean, I've just found one of the emails that Emma had referenced that has to deal with a sign-in, a new sign-in.
And this is the Google account, jeevacation at gmail.com, was signed in from a Mac in Florida.
You know, that seems to have been a new sign-in through Firefox on a Mac.
So this is a really kind of, like, interesting thing.
You know, it's a tiny little piece of a larger mosaic is what Emma was indicating.
So I did find one of these files, and these could be diamonds in the rough here.
I mean, there's a lot of crap spam in this collection, there's no doubt.
But these little bits of data can really be, I think, critical pieces of the mosaic that will show us what the hell was going on in Epstein's life at a particular time and date.
That vacation account that you referred to, that was the account that was made for Jeffrey Epstein when he went to prison.
You can see how the Cavalier way he dealt with it was considered a vacation.
And, you know, this was the first time he went to prison.
And when he got out, of course, went right back into, you know, the way he was.
This was that way.
So, yeah.
I'm just thinking some of these details are going to be in, like, a TV movie or, like, a biopic or something.
A miniseries or a long-running series.
All kinds of different things are probably going to be compiled and generated to look at it.
I'm really intrigued if just the timeline alone of what was being said when changes any of the overall dynamic in our understanding of how things went and the current version of the story that's in public consciousness right now.
Like, does this move that at all in any which way?
Everyone's just – it's good to see people reading.
I'll say that.
Always good to see people buried in something.
We are.
There is some fun stuff in here.
There is a refund that he claimed for a book he bought from Amazon.
He didn't claim it.
It was a pre-order.
It was a pre-order price lock.
Oh, okay.
I see that.
So the price went down between the time he ordered it before publication and the day it was published.
So they gave him his refund for $14.35 for a book called Family Wealth Management, Seven Imperatives for Successful Investing in the New World Order.
Well, it's always good to get a fair price on something about wealth management.
Yeah, that's for sure.
And if you have that level of money, it's good to get your $14.35 back.
Well, as I gaze upon the three of you going through all this material right now with looks of wonder and some disgust on your faces, I have to ask, is it possible – can you search keywords from what you're looking at right now, the entire thing?
Or is that just –
You can.
Yeah, it's a folder of plain text.
So as long as you can search for the contents of text files –
So what shall we search for?
We can search for something within these files.
What would be a good word or a good name?
Well, searching for password brings up a lot of what Emma was talking about, like him getting his login credentials reset and apparently these attempts at getting into it.
There is one complaint email that – an email exchange he had with Yahoo over his – two of his email accounts.
And the accounts in question are – yeah, here we are.
Dear sirs, my name is Jeffrey Epstein, and I am the owner and authorized user of the following two Yahoo accounts, JEE Project and Littlest Jeff.
My password for each of these accounts is as follows.
Are you kidding me?
Are you kidding me?
Wait, hold on.
It's going to get better.
The password for JEE Project was Neptune, and the password for Littlest Jeff at Yahoo.com was Mermaid, as Emma told us earlier.
Isn't Neptune like some kind of god of the sea or something like that?
That's the one.
As a mermaid.
Okay, wow.
We're learning a lot of things I didn't really want to learn, but –
Speaking of things you don't really want to learn, the chat is chiming in and would like us to search Bubba.
Oh, boy.
Well, search Clinton first and then search Bubba if we can handle those two searches.
And what – I don't know what to search for.
This always happens.
What do you search for?
Well, the other problem is we were having this earlier.
Rob searched – just for funsies – searched a word that we could not say on air, but we can say here because we're on YouTube.
And Rob searched the word fuck just to see what would come up.
But it was – a lot of things came up, and I'm like, why?
Because it was buried in the headers.
Yeah.
There was, like, code in the headers.
In the strings of random code that you would get in email headers, sometimes it's spelled out fuck.
A lot of times.
Intentionally or just randomly?
No, just randomly.
It appears to be random, yeah.
Okay.
That is weird.
But searching for Clinton, of course.
As we said, Epstein was a New York Post reader, apparently, and got, like, every story emailed to him.
So searching for figures like Trump.
From the New York Post?
He got it from the Post?
The Washington Post.
Oh, okay.
All right.
Different.
But he also got a lot of stuff from CNBC.
There was New York Post stuff, too.
There was New York Post stuff?
Okay.
I only saw Washington Post.
CNBC.
A lot of news-related stuff.
Yeah.
So searching for Clinton is going to probably ping a lot of false positives, if you will.
Yeah.
We're going to need to get in here deeper with some, like, regular expressions to filter some of this out.
Clearly, he signed up for a lot of lists on his Yahoo accounts because – lousers.
You may be approved for debt consolidation.
Let me ask this.
Oh, he was dead already.
He was dead already.
Well, you know, I feel awful even thinking of doing this, but you could emulate Epstein by collecting all these .eml files, putting it in a directory, and then running a program, and there you are in the program reading all the emails as if you're reading his emails.
Not just looking at them as files, but actually, you know, you can reply to whoever sent the email.
Well, you could search titles.
You can search – you know, you can weed out the spam and the news stories and do the kind of search that we're interested in doing.
Emmanuel, it's funny you should mention that.
Did you already do it?
I didn't personally do it.
There was something done with the earlier – and it doesn't include the emails that were just released, but the earlier release of Epstein material, which is known as Epstein Files on DDoS Secrets, that is a collection that appears to have been consolidated from various sources that were available, including stuff that had been redacted by the House Oversight Committee.
Somebody took those and put up a site at jmail.world, and what this does is presents basically a Gmail clone, but with those emails loaded into it.
Oh, wow.
So you can search them and click around them as though you're Jeffrey Epstein signed into his account.
And this was his Gmail account.
The stuff we just got from Emma is his Yahoo account.
But the jmail.world site can be fun to play with if you want to just look at this stuff without even having to download the files yourself and do some searching around and see what you can find.
You know, if I ever get to the day where I've organized my own email to the point where I can look at somebody else's, I'm going to do that because that sounds fascinating.
It's fun stuff.
Yeah, the user interface looks really slick, and it's very fun to basically rifle through this inbox as though you're logged in, but it's just hosting it with those files.
Wow.
Okay, now I've got something to look forward to.
All right, shall we take phone calls?
Yeah, I'm ready to go whenever you all are.
All right, well, someone can give out the phone number, and as soon as you say the last digit, the phone will become active.
Before that, it will not be active, and you will go someplace we can't get you back.
So be careful.
Oh, Emmanuel, I have a question.
Go ahead.
So if you're saying the last digit, does that mean just the digits, or if you want to give out the word that the last four spell out, is it the last digit or the last letter?
Why don't we make it simple and give the digits out first, and then we can spell all kinds of things with the phone number afterwards.
But the first time you give out the last digit is when it will become active.
And I should also point out, it's possible, because we don't know this yet, last time we took phone calls, last week on WBAI, we tried to take phone calls.
Well, we did.
We got a lot of phone calls, too.
But they had trouble hearing me for some reason.
So if that happened, everybody else can be heard great now, because Kyle put in a whole new system, and you won't hear a hum.
You won't have any trouble speaking to the people in Signal Land, but you might not be able to hear me well.
I might just walk over to a different microphone.
I could do that, or I could just shut up.
And I think that's what most people want.
So, you know, let's see what happens.
Go ahead.
All right.
So if you would like to give us a call, it's 802-321-4225.
That's 802-321-HACK.
Or if you're feeling sporting and want to give us a toll-free call, you can reach us at 833-755-2600.
And the phone is now active, so people can dial those numbers and reach us.
Do we not have a phone call yet?
I'm shocked.
I don't think we do.
I have a question from the chat.
Go ahead.
Which is from our friend Tim in Connecticut.
Totally unrelated to tonight's show, but I keep forgetting to ask, is there any word on the Hope 16 flash drive release?
Yes, actually, we have all the videos.
We are putting them together, and there will be a flash drive very, very soon.
If you already bought one, you will be the first people to get them, obviously.
And we expect that to happen.
Right now, we're finishing up an issue, and we're working on a couple other projects.
And, of course, we also have the issue with the conference, trying to unfuck that situation.
But, yeah, I don't know.
There's nothing more I can really say about that.
Looking for another place to have it, hopefully next year.
And we're going to see what happens.
Obviously, people's support and ideas, all very, very important.
Excellent.
There was one fun email that came up in the older Epstein Files release that I was endlessly amused by.
Let me just bring it up again.
Do you folks know who Al Seckle is or was?
I'm going to guess no.
Okay.
It sounds somewhat familiar.
I mean, I know because you and I talked about it, so I'm recusing myself from the question.
Okay.
Well, maybe you can enlighten folks a little.
Okay.
Al Seckle, I'm just quoting from the Wikipedia now, was an American collector and popularizer of visual and other types of sensory illusions.
But he was also, well, news coverage arising from his connection to Jeffrey Epstein has stressed his misrepresentation of his education and credentials because, Rob?
Well, he was an interesting character and he was going with, let me see, is this the person in question?
Yep.
He was going out with Ghislaine Maxwell's sister.
And he was also employed by Jeffrey Epstein to try and do some online SEO, some reputation management stuff, that thing where you suppress things about someone that they don't like being on the Internet and try and emphasize things that they do like.
And Al Seckle was doing this service for Jeffrey Epstein.
And there is an email from Al to Jeffrey about how the bots did the sweep and here are the new results.
And you only have one negative article left on the front page of Google, which is the Huffington Post article.
This is from 2010, by the way.
And talking about editing Wikipedia in his favor.
And a funny thing is that he refers to editing Wikipedia in Jeffrey Epstein's favor.
Editing Jeffrey Epstein's Wikipedia page as we hacked the site to replace the mugshot and caption and now has a different photo and caption.
This was a big success.
But he also says we've stopped the hacking on your Wiki site.
Yes.
Also, he's a terrible, terrible speller.
I don't know.
You know that thing where you can automatically have your email client spell check your emails before they go out?
Al did not have that selected.
And one fun thing about this was you could see the rest of the thread in which Epstein is complaining back to Al.
I was never told that there was a 10K fee per month.
You initially said the project would take 20, then another 10, then another 10.
So, yeah, Al was charging him money.
Jeffrey Epstein was complaining about the cost of this hacking Wikipedia in his favor.
And Al Seckle also no longer with us.
Folks, we're having an issue with the phone.
So if people are trying to get through to us.
Well, I don't understand what's going on.
We use Google Voice.
We're forwarding.
It's all set up, but it's not working.
So when you call it, you get the recording saying that this is a busy signal.
It would be a busy signal if Google believed in busy signals.
But we can't seem to get the phone to actually forward.
So if anyone has a trick out there when Google Voice stops working, how to make it work.
That's what we're working on right now is trying to do that.
People are speculating on where Rebel might have gone for Thanksgiving, that he wasn't on the phone yet.
But apparently it turns out there's another reason.
What else?
So people are busy suggesting things to search for in the tranches of email.
You know, fun things like Andrew and Duke and Stallman.
And have you tried turning it off and on again?
Well, searching for Stallman actually didn't bring up anything.
So let's try something else here.
Bubba also didn't bring up anything.
We're signing out and signing in again, see if that works.
Okay.
All right.
So we are turning it off and on again.
And thank you for your patience while we do this.
But again, you can go to ddosecrets.com and check these files out for yourself.
If you have a torrent option and use that, you can save DDoS Secrets some of their precious bandwidth
and help spread this stuff around for others.
But of course, use your own judgment when seeding this sort of thing.
Yeah.
So many Amazon.com emails, Logitech webcam.
If that electric eye could talk, I'm sure.
Oh, God.
I don't even...
Shower door direct?
Oh, a fogless suction cup mirror for a shower door.
This is fascinating.
Yeah, there's just tons of stuff.
I mean, I'm just kind of randomly scrolling and it's like, wow.
So it's like, it's clear this was an account that he used to sign up for things, right?
So it's just like a massive amount of stuff.
You go false account identification.
What the hell is that?
He had a Kindle book called The Ultimate Ponzi.
That's great.
Yeah.
CVS orders in here, too, right?
Yeah.
Okay.
So what's interesting is we signed out of Google Voice with forwarding on, signed back in, and
forwarding was off.
So it turned itself off.
Now we're going to try turning it back on and see if that works.
All right.
But it's acting really, really weird.
Are there any questions from the chat about...
In fact, we just got one.
Yeah.
Could you just ask those?
I'll maybe relay an answer while we're waiting.
Happy to.
Someone just said if he knew his communication was insecure, why did he continue to use it?
That is a good question.
Maybe he didn't feel it was under scrutiny.
Okay.
The good news is that seems to have fixed it, just logging out, logging back in, turning
it on a second time.
Okay.
Weird.
We have a call, Kyle?
All right.
Yeah.
And good evening.
You're on off the govertime, and tell me if you have trouble hearing my voice.
Loud and clear.
Oh, wow.
Okay.
That was a surprise.
I can hear myself echoing.
Oh, don't start.
Okay.
Might be my headphones.
Might be my headphones.
Yeah.
I'll turn myself off.
Yeah.
Sorry.
There's a delay.
I need to pretend like this is ham radio or something.
But I have an idea.
You know, when the Enron email corpus came out, there was an art project that came out
called The Good Life.
You can visit it at Enron dot email, where basically you can sign up for it, and it will
send you a copy of the Enron email corpus, I believe, once per day.
So you can simulate, you know, what it would be like to be one of the employees in this company, and you know, seeing messages pile up in your inbox in the same order.
Awesome.
Now, take that idea and apply it to the brand-new Jeffrey Epstein email corpus.
You know, once this data is out there, any number of people can get hold of it and come up with any sort of interesting projects.
And yeah, something like that might be a really clever use of the data.
Idea number two, use them to train an AI chat bot to mimic the personality of Jeffrey Epstein.
Oh, God.
Let's not teach computers to be that.
It's only a matter of time.
Oh, I'm sure people are feeding these into an LLM, or they're being indexed, you know, literally,
as we speak at this particular moment.
So, yeah.
And people are not going to be able to resist the temptation of feeding this in and trying to see what they can get out.
But we'll see.
We will see.
But I love your idea of having some kind of art-related project here.
I mean, if something interesting and unique can come out of this that's fascinating.
But, I mean, I think there are going to be some diamonds in the rough here.
You know, from what I can tell, there are definitely, there's a lot of rough and very few diamonds in this data set.
But if what Emma had mentioned is correct, if there's conversations with people and perhaps even counsel about trafficking people from one jurisdiction into another
so that they can have underage sex with them, that could be actionable.
That could have major repercussions, especially if Epstein was speaking to any kind of legal advisor about that particular scheme.
Or others were speaking with legal advisors about that particular scheme.
I mean, these are things that we should definitely be digging into.
And now we can.
It's great to witness this sort of historical moment, you know, just all live over the air.
And, you know, I'm hopeful to see what people will do with this.
I mean, there's probably all kinds of things coming out that you wouldn't even imagine.
And speaking of history on the air, you guys are able to talk to each other for the first time without struggle.
You're talking to the people on Signal Land, and everybody can hear each other.
So thank you, Kyle, for making that happen.
Yes, bravo, Kyle.
Well done.
Well done.
No problem.
But speaking of, like, you know, on the air, I thought it was a pretty good show tonight.
I mean, this was, I think, somewhat historical.
This was really unique.
We don't get to say that, Alex.
It's the listeners that decide if it was a good show or not.
Well, that's what I'm asking.
I mean, would you agree, disagree?
I want to hear...
You don't get to ask that, Alex.
You don't get to ask whether it's a good show.
The listeners have to voluntarily come to you and tell you it's a good show.
So I'm breaking all the rules.
Can I just butt in for a moment and say that I think this is probably one of the most important episodes of Off the Hook for some time to come?
Yes, you're probably right.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was...
I thought it was great radio, too.
I appreciate it.
Yeah.
All right.
Well, thank you for the call, and we're going to try and get more calls as well, now that we can talk to people.
Hey, all the best to Emma Best, and not related, but I went to the Capitol today
and went through a full-body scan, the, you know, the tube, the cylindrical machine they have in airports.
It's been a while.
It sounds like you got an MRI.
Are you sure you went to an actual building?
Yes, it was the Capitol building.
Okay.
You were standing up.
If you were standing up, then okay.
If you're lying down, then...
Yeah.
Okay.
Thanks for sharing that.
Bye-bye.
Bye.
8-0-2-3-2-1-4-2-2-2-5.
All right.
Well, there we have it, right?
Yeah.
Oh, wait.
We have another question.
We have another question, which is actually exclusively show-related and has nothing to do with the leak.
Any update on the archive of the 2600 Voice BBS?
Yes.
And that's all I can say right now, but yes.
Stay tuned.
You're asking all of the most important questions.
Yeah.
Next question.
That is a good question.
That's a very good question.
Well, the next question we can all answer is, has Rebel called in yet?
The answer is no.
Wait, why would somebody ask if something happened that they're listening to right now?
Next question.
This may be someone who recently joined us.
Cheers for Kyle is a comment in the chat.
And Zap says, listeners have spoken.
It was a good show.
All right, then.
That's how you do it, Alex.
You don't fish for the remarks.
You have to let the remarks come to you.
All right.
I'll duly note it.
Duly note it.
I think we have a phone call.
Hopefully not Rebel.
I know we have a phone call.
I heard the phone ringing.
And Kyle's picked up the phone.
And we're about ready to say good evening.
You're on Off the Hook Overtime.
What's on your mind?
Daryl McPherson, Bronx, New York.
Hey, how you doing?
Oh, you don't have time for that one.
However, the show was actually a very interesting show.
Unfortunately, I'm going to have to listen to it again, probably on the WBAR archive, because
it was a little on the then side.
And it was about something that, personally, the details of I ain't too interested in.
I'm really interested in.
And is anybody investigating the suicide?
Because I don't believe there was a suicide.
I believe he was taken out.
Well, you know, there's definitely that theory.
I don't know if we have, you know, the means to investigate that ourselves.
But certainly we can ask questions.
And somebody is talking in the background.
Do you hear that?
Well, has anyone interviewed the guards since the story that they put out was that they
fell asleep and they were punished in some kind of way?
Is anybody going to run down on the guards?
Yeah, I'm not sure where the people to ask about that.
Oh, OK.
All right.
I believe they gave testimony.
And yeah, maybe I think even have since left the profession.
I'm not sure.
I can't remember.
It was a long time ago.
So, right.
And I think people are depending on that to I'm not even clear that they're focusing
on the people who were taken advantage of as much as can we nail someone of quote unquote
stature in the system.
And is that the impression that you all are getting?
Well, I mean, there's different ways of looking at it as far as what you know, where the emphasis
is being placed.
And I've heard it said that too much emphasis is being placed on trying to get other people
implicated somehow and not so much on the crimes themselves.
But, you know, I think if people are implicated, then all of a sudden you do have crimes that
can actually result in some degree of justice for the people who suffered through them.
And if Jeffrey Epstein has avoided that kind of of responsibility, maybe somebody who is
still around can can shoulder that responsibility.
There are certainly enough people who were part of that world that have some questions to
answer.
And I think, you know, going through all this, that's how you find out who those people are.
You know that our Department of Justice is not doing that.
They are covering it up.
And that's pretty obvious.
They're doing a bad job of it, too, by saying, yeah, there are no files.
It's the case is closed.
That's what they said a few months ago.
And obviously, that's not true, because look at what we have.
So, yeah, you know, I think this is crowdsourced justice, I guess, is what it's going to turn
into.
Well, then, contextually, do you think that waiting four or five years until the system
attempts to correct itself, if the population is willing to educate itself sufficiently?
I mean, where is this going in the context of moving us all forward so that we can, well,
on my case, get out of capitalism?
Because it's like totally wrecking my life.
Well, it's just a question of getting the truth out, getting to the truth.
You know, we have this evidence of one sort or another, and if we don't believe that we
are being told the truth or that things are being looked into, and this evidence is out
there, then by all means, everyone have a look at it.
Let's make sure it's actual evidence.
And I'm sure people will find things that otherwise never would have been found.
I agree, except that unless the population is willing to accept the quote-unquote facts that
you find, we're still in the same position in which the president gets to assassinate somebody
on Fifth Avenue when everybody says, is that all there is?
Yeah, well, you know, every time you present some bit of evidence out there, it changes
the mind.
It has an effect.
So not doing something is never the right thing.
Not moving forward is never the right move.
So if you just keep looking at what's out there, what's presented to you, and you share
that, and more people look at that, it builds things up.
And nobody, nobody is immune from that.
You know, you might think that the people in power now have all the power.
They really don't.
And the reason you know this for a fact is, look at how they act.
They're scared.
They're defensive.
They're constantly attacking people who question them.
Those are people who are not in control.
And when people are not in control, the more evidence you bring that they have to deal with,
the weaker they get.
So not doing something, no, that's not the right move.
So let's, let's, you know, look at everything we can find and see if somebody takes it seriously
or not.
If they don't take it seriously, well, that says something, doesn't it?
I thoroughly agree with everything you're saying.
I'm just, perhaps because of my current condition, I'm just looking for the what's next.
Okay, so everybody accepts the fact that one of my favorites, Larry Summers, is totally perverted,
whatever, whatever, whatever.
Going to jail isn't going to hack it.
Do we, is there another way that we can get, get some satisfaction and, and make the person
responsible, become responsible?
We're talking about, we're talking about two different things here.
We're talking about gathering evidence and then you're talking about, um, uh, exacting
justice.
And those are two totally, you know, it's like, what is it law and order?
They have, they have the crime and then they have the trial.
Is that how that show works?
One of those shows does that.
Uh, so it's, it's, you know, they're related, but they're totally different.
And right now we're at the stage of just gathering information, uncovering the truth and, um, uh,
you know, admitting that there is something there.
Alex, did you have something to say?
Yeah, just in, in terms of this whole other evidence gathering exercise.
I mean, I think we have to look at these types of cases that are very puzzle-like really
as a mosaic, right?
This is the, the analogy I was, I was using before.
And these, these may be, you know, 10, 20 tiles of that mosaic, that larger picture,
you know, out of 20,000 that were in that particular email inbox.
And so I think it's, you know, it's going to be a slow process, but I think this is something
we shouldn't look at as, oh, this is a rarity.
This is some kind of a luxury here that we, we have the ability to look at this, right?
Because transparency isn't a luxury in a case that's this complex.
It's the only way to check whether institutions did their jobs or they covered up for powerful
people.
You know, we don't know that without looking at the data.
And, and I think it's, it's just so important to recognize that what Emma and DDoS secrets
did was they gave the public the ability to make their own judgments about this.
That's pretty cool.
And, uh, along with that is the chance to go through this stuff and the stuff that seems
like just sort of work a day, uh, you know, routine emails that don't actually have content
in them that's written by people.
But these are peaks into this, uh, this person's life.
Um, I just learned from his, uh, from his receipts here that he suffered from sleep apnea and,
you know, ordered supplies for his CPAP machine.
Um, one of the emails about this, uh, had an, had a helpful ebook attached called hacking
sleep apnea.
So, uh, you can, you can hack your sleep apnea if you've, if you've got it out there.
Wow.
Fascinating things to, to learn.
Thank you very much for your call though.
Right.
How do I pick this up?
Do I go back to YouTube to listen to you?
Because if you go to, uh, well, I, I, I, you know, WBAI has an archive of the show.
If that's what you're asking.
Uh, we also, no, no, I'm asking you how do I continue to listen to you?
Oh, to us.
While you're continuing.
Yeah.
You go to YouTube.
While you're continuing the whole, off the hook.
Right.
You go to YouTube.com and go to channel 2600.
Okay.
Channel 2600.
All right.
You got to let me say it.
Channel 26.
I'm trying to get this out.
Channel 2600, one word.
And that, go to that channel and you should see a live broadcast.
Right.
That's where I was before I decided to call in.
The last thing is really quickly, Peter Diamantini's, um, D-A-I, D-A-I-M-A-N-D-I-S.
They're into AI.
Is there a place that AI would be helpful in, um, gleaning the information?
And I'll, I'll listen to you on the, uh, YouTube.
All right.
Thanks for your call.
I didn't understand that last question.
Did anybody?
I think they were talking about, uh, different tools that you can employ.
And the answer is yes.
This is now public information.
You can process it, store it, share it, uh, attribute to it in writing and reporting.
So there's any number of tools out there, including stuff that employs machine learning.
Um, okay.
And, uh, the calls are rolling in now.
Uh, we have, uh, another call.
Ready?
Good evening.
You're on Off The Huck Overtime.
Go ahead.
Hi.
I almost forgot about Off The Huck.
I just, I realized that you were on.
I forgot about Off The Huck.
Rebel, you're, you're, you're slipping.
You're, you're usually number one.
Now you're number, what, three or four?
Whoa.
This is, I don't recognize this.
What's on your mind?
What's going on?
Now you know what I forgot what I was going to say.
Let's see.
Um, um, how did, oh, I forgot what I was going to mention because I forgot about calling you.
Mm-hmm.
Um, I know what I want to mention.
This is unscripted Rebel here.
Yeah.
I noticed that sometimes, I've been listening to the old shows, like the old authors from
like the 90s.
You can do that?
You can listen to the old ones without going crazy?
Wait.
Because I can't.
We just told people how.
Continue, Rebel.
Continue.
Yeah, that's true.
We did.
All right.
Well, I noticed that when you call things, like sometimes an 800 number or, no, I don't
know, things like, except for like operators and like, for three systems and stuff, like
certain 800 numbers, like, sometimes you call like, to demonstrate things like, uh, I think
you call Chase Bank or Citibank or an airline or something like that.
Sometimes it will ring once and then pick up or ring twice and then pick up or maybe three
times, but sometimes it won't ring at all.
Yeah.
I mean, that's true.
Things used to ring and, and, and things don't always ring now.
You don't need a ring.
You know, rings are, or how, yeah, but this is in the 90s.
I'm talking about it.
Is that like a digital switching thing or I don't know?
It might be a digital thing.
You know, it's a good question.
Like, you know, I remember, uh, you remember 950 numbers, right?
You would, you would call to get a dial tone and you, it wouldn't ring.
It would just immediately give you a dial tone.
Well, that's a special number.
But there are a lot of special numbers that all of a sudden started popping up.
And now Alex wants to jump in and Rebel, you can now talk to people in signal land and
I can sit back and relax.
Well, before I, before you do that, I noticed that operators don't ring.
And Alex, you have to be aggressive.
The only way you're going to get his respect is if you are aggressive.
I know you got it.
We got it.
We got to just get it.
Get the word.
Get the breath.
I mean, what I don't understand.
Alex, too.
Oh my God.
What I don't understand about this, this question though, is, are you essentially asking how
sometimes somebody on the other end answers the phone after one ring and other times after
two rings or something?
Can I just butt in here to offer some advice to both of you?
Finish a sentence.
Then the other person talks.
Don't talk at the same time.
Then you'll hear each other.
Yeah.
So, so is that the question though, Rebel?
Like how, let me rephrase the question here.
How can in the nineties, somebody who's receiving a call pick up after one ring when somebody else
can pick up after two rings or no rings at all?
Right.
Or no rings at all.
That's the thing.
Sometimes the phone will ring twice or one time or three times, but sometimes it won't ring
at all.
You'll call 1-800-AMTRACK or something, you know, and then it'll just, it won't ring.
It's 1-800-USA-RAIL, by the way, not 1-800-AMTRACK.
That's not even enough.
Whatever it is.
But, but it's just that 1-800-AMTRACK is going to be waiting for another digit.
It's only six letters.
Hold on.
Wait a minute.
Yeah, he's right.
You can't dial a six-digit phone number.
Not in this country.
Rebel, you should know this.
M, T, it's 8, R, that's 7, A, edit to C.
There's no C.
There's no C in NRACK, for God's sake.
I know there's no C.
I know there's no C.
No, you don't know there's no C, because you just typed a C.
You're ruining the phone network.
This is what you get now when you call some of those numbers that used to be, that used
to work in the 90s.
Some of those numbers that used to work in the 90s?
What numbers were those?
I mean, any number, like, for different phone companies that are, like, cable, if you call,
like, cable wireless or working at the same distance.
So, Rebel, you're saying if you try to call numbers for companies that don't exist anymore,
the numbers don't work?
No, no, some of your time, you'll get that recording.
No, no, no, you'll get that recording.
Did you hear the recording that came on?
We heard a recording.
Sure did, because you decided you needed a three-way S in with a phone call right now.
It didn't give a name of a company or anything like that.
I understand this point, though.
But it's one of those, I mean, if you hold on all three-ways, you'll do it.
Oh, wonderful.
Alex, you actually have a clue as to what this is about?
Yeah, I think the point that Rebel's trying to make is that these numbers that used to be
very popular back in the 90s, and people would often dial them.
They've become disused and picked up by opportunist salesmen or women or whatever, right?
He's telling Amtrak with a C.
When was that popular?
No, it wasn't popular.
I just bagged that up off the, you know, just rather random.
I think you really did.
You must have really thought Amtrak had a C.
Can you give us an example of a number then telling us what the number used to belong
to?
Then maybe we'll appreciate this.
At the top of my head, let's see.
But you just did it, so that's why I'm asking you.
What happens at 1-800-288-2880 now?
Alex, I'm going to ask you the same thing.
What number was that?
Okay, 288.
That has to be AT&T, right?
That was AT&T, 288.
Yeah, it was AT&T.
I never called that number.
288-0?
I'm going to suggest long-distance companies because they're not used and may have been
recovered in the same way that they were.
I've got a number Rebel can try.
The old MCI number, 1-800-444-4444.
Wait a minute.
Wait a minute.
Yeah.
You write that down, though.
Calling.
What?
Hold on.
It's an telecall now.
What's on, Jared?
Wait.
I have an idea.
He's pretty excited right now.
Um, Dr. 47 tells us that 1-800-DRACULA used to have amazing seasonal vampire recordings.
I wish I had known that back when it was relevant.
You know, 1-800-COLLECT-EVS still works.
1-800-COLLECT-EVS still works.
It does.
You can make a collect call.
Yeah.
I'll hold on and I'll demonstrate.
Yeah.
Try calling us collect.
See what happens.
It's probably not going to work.
Oh, by the way, Alex, you would know.
You would like this.
Yeah.
Next time you're in London, go to a pay phone, dial 155 for an international operator, and
call your cell phone.
Collect.
You won't get a bill.
Will you get a call?
You'll get a call.
They'll say, will you accept a collect call from the United States or from London, from
the United Kingdom, and you'll say yes, and then you won't get a bill.
I think that one day, one day they're going to catch up to you, because...
Okay, how about in a year?
No.
All right.
Anybody in London, try that trick.
Let us know what happens, because I don't think that works.
We'll give you Rebel's cell phone.
Yeah, call me collect.
All right.
It's fine.
Are we done here?
Are we waiting for anything?
Yeah.
I think we're done here.
1-800-COLLECT.
You hear it coming on?
We had a baby eats a boy.
I don't think 1-800-COLLECT paid their bill, because I don't hear anything coming on.
Thank you for calling our 1-800-COLLECT, powered by Y-AC-TEL.
Now, I can also assist you to make our collect calls to wireless numbers.
Yes, that extortion is on their end.
Please work for instruction.
You mean, that's what it really sounds like?
That's what it really sounds like.
But I have a CV that you see.
Please enter the area code and number.
I want to give you a number.
All right, go ahead.
I want to give you a number.
I want to give you a number of signs.
Yes, and there is a C in that.
Well, you know, it's going to go to a busy signal.
If it's a light call, press 1 now.
I mean, if it's on a freeway, it'll sound like it.
A collect call is not allowed.
Okay, there.
We're protected from you.
Wow.
All right, Rebel, we're going to have to move it on, because there's other people waiting.
So, thank you for calling.
Yeah, Alex, next time you're in London, call collect.
I will try.
Alex, you have an assignment now.
All right.
So, do that.
Maybe I'll do it on the air from London.
I think the cool part about this whole thing is that 155, get to the international operator.
How do you get the international operator here?
We never had a number for that.
Oh, man.
Yeah, that's been gone.
I didn't know that was the number.
I knew 112 was how you call the cops.
And you know what?
I knew other ones, too.
Or 999, actually.
999.
112 works.
Fun fact, on your cell phone here in the United States, without 112, you will get the police.
Don't do that.
Really?
Yeah.
Because every phone has to work in every country.
And whatever it is in Russia, it works here, too.
And it's something that you wouldn't expect.
I forget what it was.
All right.
802-321-4225.
Did Rebel hang up, Kyle?
Well, let's just say that's taken care of now.
I was waiting for the signal to do that.
I pressed this button.
I didn't want to be rude.
You didn't see me press that button, so you didn't know that he was in the family.
I'm not watching that, no.
But we're ready for another call now.
All right.
I hope he doesn't call back and say, I got disconnected.
Because technically, he'd be correct.
But don't do that, Rebel.
Because it could lead to bans.
And we don't want that.
802-321-4225.
Have time for maybe one more phone call before we have to go.
Tomorrow's Thanksgiving, isn't it?
Yeah.
Wow.
It is.
So we probably should be doing other things.
Yes.
Peeling potatoes.
You just remembered, too, Peel?
Yeah.
I only found out yesterday.
Oh, no.
I'm well aware tomorrow is Thanksgiving.
I'm not a Thanksgiving person in the least.
But Tim in Connecticut, our friend Tim in Connecticut, just shared a lovely anecdote.
It says, growing up, my father, an over-the-road truck driver, used to call home, collect, and ask for himself.
And mom would know he arrived safe without a long-distance phone call.
You know, Tim, that's phone fraud.
That's what we call that.
People go to prison for this.
There is no statute of limitations, either.
Seriously, my grandparents would do that.
I mean, can you picture your grandparents engaging in phone fraud?
But that's how it's said.
Yeah, actually, now that you mention it.
And are we taking a phone call?
Yeah, we're taking a phone call as soon as you finish.
Fantastic.
That's what you're saying.
Okay.
Dr. 47 says, in the 90s, I used to keep a notebook log full of interesting 800 numbers I'd find that way.
Just making words or number patterns, et cetera.
And I know a lot of people who did the same.
I still have my notebook.
I still have my notebook filled with phone numbers.
Do you guys still have your notebooks?
I had some.
Yeah, I think I got rid of some, too.
Yeah, I think mine may be lost to time.
But one of my favorite ones was I would call 1-800 and then the name of some fictional character just to see who answered.
And, well.
I thought I heard that sound.
I thought I heard that sound in my headphones.
So, yeah, the person hung up.
So, 802-321-4225.
An opportunity has presented itself for somebody who didn't get through.
How loud are those headphones?
You're hearing everything.
No, it was way in the distance.
It was bleed.
It was bleed.
Uh-huh.
So, I ripped it off the line.
All right.
I'll just turn her down.
And, 802-321-4225.
All right.
Do we have a phone call, Kyle?
Correct.
All right.
Good evening.
You're on Off the Govertone.
Go ahead.
Hi, everyone.
This is Johnny Fusion, back from the dead.
Johnny Fusion.
It's been an age since we heard from you.
Yeah, but I'm doing okay now.
Well, we didn't know you weren't doing okay before.
I'm sorry to hear that.
Well, it's okay.
I just had my last lung clinic, and things are stable.
You know, my transplanted lungs went into chronic rejection,
but we seem to have slowed that down.
Well, that's good.
That's great, actually.
So, I'll be feeling better.
I am.
And I'm happy to see that my article finally made it in the current issue of 2600.
Yes, you do have an article.
It's been a while, and now you have an article again.
Hopefully, you have many more.
Yeah, I'm working on the next one.
It's some weird thing about simulated reality and wealth pathology.
It's a weird one.
But, you know, talking about the mindset of these tech billionaires
and how it's a pathology, this addiction to wealth.
Well, you always write on interesting topics that are quite relevant,
and I know people appreciate that.
Yeah, I'm thinking, if I send in a letter, did I put in, like, an addendum to the article
that just appeared?
Because, like, I wrote it back in March, and a lot of the things I predicted really did come
to pass, you know, just to remind, it was on the TikTok ban, and then the ignoring of the TikTok ban.
Right.
Well, if it's just an addendum, like a paragraph, send that as a letter.
But if it leads to another article, then obviously that's another article.
No, it's just, you know, how things played out, you know, because how now TikTok is owned
by a Trumper Zionist, and they really are quashing any pro-Palestinian messaging on the app,
which was the original reason for the ban in the first place.
Well, my article said so.
And when you point it out, it was because of the anti-Israel sentiment among, basically,
Gen Z, who's the main user of the app.
And now they've really successfully just changed the ownership, and now pro-Palestinian messages
are completely suppressed on that platform.
Well, you know, it's something that is interesting to talk about and point out, if it's true.
So, by all means, you know, update what you've written so far.
Yep.
Okay, that's just it.
I just wanted to call in and let you guys know I'm doing okay.
I know I've been a stranger, but I'm getting more active.
I'm writing for my blog as much as I have to decide if I want to put it on my blog
or if I want to put it, I think I'll submit it to the magazine.
But print is slow.
Well, yeah, it does take time.
You know, we're finishing up an issue now.
It'll be over a month before it comes out.
So that's how it works.
But there's a magic to that, too, because it takes a while to come out, but it lasts forever.
And, you know, 50 years from now, you can still read it.
And good luck on a Facebook post doing that.
True.
True.
All right, do you want to tell us where your blog is?
Yes.
Oh, it's at, it's hacker-ethics.flynnos.org.
Rolls right off the tongue.
Okay, well, good.
Yeah, hacker-ethics.flynnos.org.
Cool.
All right, well, listen, stay in touch.
And hopefully we hear from you again next week, next couple of weeks.
Okay.
I'll be writing.
All right.
Be well.
And that's going to do it for us as far as calls and probably as far as overtime.
Any final thoughts from you guys?
Happy Thanksgiving.
Look out for the L-tryptophan.
And, you know, be strong in any awkward conversations that you have to have with folks you don't see all that often, except for occasions like this.
Yeah, you know, maybe listen.
Maybe just sit back and listen and be entertained.
And, you know, I don't know.
I don't know.
Just, it's a test of your patience, I suppose.
I just avoid politics and religion.
Yeah, but what if others don't?
Yeah.
But then you don't engage.
But you notice how it's always people like us who avoid the conversation and others never avoid the conversation.
They plunge right in and you have to remain quiet and respectful and it's hard.
It's hard.
But it is the right thing to do.
There's no question there.
Indeed.
All right.
And, you know, extend that courtesy to somebody else who has a different opinion than you as well.
Listen to them and maybe they'll teach people other things in the future.
I don't know.
I would just extend the Thanksgiving wishes and happiness.
And I'm thankful for hackers.
And we're going to do this?
Thankful for?
Yeah.
I would also just say, like, let's, you know, support hackers and keep working on things.
Keep shining light on the truth.
And your, you know, perspective on things.
It's invaluable.
We really appreciate writing and people sharing ideas.
That's what we're all about here.
Amen.
I, too, support hackers.
I'm thankful for hackers, particularly those who dress up as Colonel Sanders and scare the hell out of people in New Zealand.
But that's just me.
I have weird tastes.
Alex, yes.
I'll take the bullet and I'll say, you know, I'm thankful for public radio and WBAI here.
And, you know, the opportunity to have a show like we had today.
That wouldn't happen on corporate radio.
It hasn't happened on corporate radio for a good reason.
So, you know, support public radio.
Support WBAI.
Go to give2wbai.org.
And remember, it's you guys that keep us on the air.
We need this community to keep going.
Gila.
I'm thankful for this community.
I'm thankful for the folks who join us every week.
And I would like to remind everybody that if you turn to substances to get through difficult conversations tomorrow, please make sure you have a safe ride home.
Don't drive drunk, folks.
Or don't be careful going up the stairs if you're home already.
Or have that many slices of pie.
Yeah.
And Rob.
I am thankful for branches that don't break.
I am most thankful for the people in my life.
And that includes this community.
That includes the hacker world.
That includes the folks who listen to this show.
The folks who make this show with us.
And everybody who makes all this possible.
Find your people.
Because whatever awkward conversations you've got to have when you go and visit folks, you can always come back to the right folks and have some easier conversations and some productive ones.
And when you do find those people, hang on to those people, take care of those people, check in on them, and, you know, don't forget about them.
All right.
That's going to do it for us tonight.
Have a happy Thanksgiving, everybody.
And enjoy whatever it is you decide to do on that day.
We will see you next week, 7 p.m. on WBAI, 8 p.m. here on YouTube.
Good night.