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Zero, zero, nine, three, zero, zero, one.
The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a cough.
We couldn't get much worse, but if they could, they would.
One did it bomb for the best, it's paid for worst.
I hope that's understood.
One did it, boom!
One did it, boom!
One did it, boom!
And a very good evening to everybody.
The program is off the hook.
Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening, joined tonight by Kyle.
Yes, hey.
Out in Signal Land, we have Rob T. Firefly.
Good evening.
We have Gila.
Good evening.
And we have Alex.
You do.
Good morning.
Okay, so that tells me right away that you're somewhere else again.
Where are you this time?
It could be.
I'm actually in a city I've never been to before, other than yesterday and today.
I'm in Manchester, England at the moment.
Oh, Manchester.
That's a wonderful place.
That's where the series Shameless was inspired.
All kinds of fun things happened.
Manchester United, Manchester City, of course, Liverpool, nice, friendly town, just a stone
throw away.
Yeah, this is a great city.
I've never really spent much time in the north of England.
I've lived in England and go back and forth and teach at King's College in London, and
I've never really been up to the north, but there's a contracted party summit here with
ICANN, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, yesterday and today, and
actually on Monday as well.
And so I've been here a couple of days, and I'm really liking it.
People are extremely nice.
There's a lot of nerdy stuff that people would be interested in here in Manchester.
I mean, Alan Turing was here, and there's a wonderful Alan Turing monument and memorial
in a park right around the corner from my hotel.
Very, very cool place.
People are really nice, friendly.
It seems like the farther north you go in England, the friendlier people become.
You need to watch League of Gentlemen.
But before you do that, let me remind you that coming up this Friday is one hell of a 2600
meeting in Manchester.
It's one of the best ones.
So I suggest you stick around and attend that.
Well, I'll be back.
I'll still be in the UK, but I'm leaving Manchester tomorrow, heading back to London.
Otherwise, I would have definitely stuck around for that.
Well, there's a meeting in London as well.
You can't get away from the meetings, Alex.
They're everywhere.
So yeah, this Friday coming up, May 1st, about 5 p.m.
Look it up.
2600.com slash meetings.
Yeah.
What are these meetings all about?
Can you tell me about them?
Well, I assume that you're just asking, for the benefit of listeners, that you actually
know damn well what they're about, because you've been to many of them.
That's right.
Basically, they're public gatherings in the middle of a public space, such as a food court
or a mall in England, even in pubs, that kids are allowed in.
So that's the important thing.
We don't cut off access by age.
And it's basically a place where people can trade information about technology, hacking,
kind of like what the radio show does, except in person.
And it's a good opportunity to get away from the computer screen and just kind of hang out
and look at your phone screen.
No, I'm kidding.
Don't do that.
Hang out.
Talk to people.
It's very informal.
And it happens on the first Friday of every month, for the most part, all around the world.
And you can get more information at 2600.com slash meetings.
You can start your own.
It's been going on since 1987, if you can believe that.
You know, I can believe it.
And I have met some really interesting characters at the 2600 meetings over the years.
And in fact, I think, Emmanuel, you and I met for the first time at a 2600 meeting many,
many years ago in the 90s.
That's quite possible.
It would have been the one at what was known as CityCorp back then.
That's right.
Yep.
Near the lobby of payphones.
The same location where it takes place in New York City to this day.
And Rob, what's it called now?
What's that food court called in what's known as the City Group Building now?
Yes.
In the City Group Building now, that whole first floor area is called the Hue, as in the name
Hue, H-U-G-H.
And that's what they named their food court, which is actually a decent place.
They remodeled it recently.
And we started having meetings there again.
And it is just, it's a great place to hang out, have a meeting, chat with people.
We'll be there.
We'll be there this Friday evening.
More info on our particular meeting here in New York.
You could go to nyc2600.net, and it's got all the info on there.
Or you could always go to 2600.com slash meetings, find one near you.
If you don't have one near you, there's the info there to start one near you.
Anyone can, any place that needs one can have one.
All the details are there.
I was a bit upset last time.
Kyle and I went to the April meeting, and it turned out it was Good Friday.
I didn't know everybody took Good Friday so seriously at that particular food court.
But they did.
Most places were closed, and people still showed up.
We had a great meeting, talked to a lot of people.
But I don't know.
Is May Day a holiday in the mall world?
I think May Day should be all right.
It's a celebration.
It's a celebratory sort of day.
And yeah, so check it out.
I mean, in the old days of the original City Corp Center sort of food court area,
there really wasn't much to be had in the way of food for the most part.
Oh, people didn't eat nearly the same amount back then.
Yeah.
It's a lot more.
Yeah, no, they didn't.
But the options are a lot nicer now.
That's true.
And it's worth checking out.
Do you know why it's called the Hue?
Why is it called the Hue?
Why is it called the Hue?
Thank you for asking.
Thank you for asking.
The Hue is named after the architect of the building, a man named Hue Stubbins.
I did not know this.
Why didn't they just call it the Stubbins?
Why did they call it the Hue?
Usually things are named after your last name, not your first name.
Because every Tom, Dick, and Harry is named Stubbins.
All right.
I guess that's as good a reason as any.
So, Alex, now, have you decided yet where you will be settling in the UK?
Have you picked a city, or are you going for more of an agrarian type of a thing?
I would love to go for an agrarian type of thing in the UK.
I mean, it's quite beautiful once you get out of the cities and pastoral and rolling hills
and cows and all kinds of wonderful things here in this strange little island of the
United Kingdom here.
But, no, I mean, I think I'm partial to London, though.
I mean, I love London.
I used to live in London.
I should warn you, it's expensive.
It's expensive there.
Yes.
But, you know, I think you'll be happy there.
I really do.
You think so?
I do.
Yeah.
I mean, I'm not resettling or anything like that.
I mean, I'm just hoping they let me back in the country.
Wait, wait.
Wait, what?
Did I misunderstand you?
You haven't left the country to settle in the UK?
No, I have not left the country to settle in the UK.
Yeah, I'm not leaving America.
I'm not giving up people.
Who the hell told me?
Why did you tell me that?
I swear, our research department.
Okay, but Alex.
Wait, don't pin this on the research department.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Well, it's not my job.
Look, Alex, we have to address this.
I thought you were safe.
I thought you went to the United Kingdom, you know, in search of democracy and, you know,
but you intend to come back here to this country?
I'm going to come back.
You know, I feel safer when there's a written constitution as opposed to an unwritten constitution.
I like to see the words, you know, on the page.
Poor summer child.
Look, there is no written constitution anymore.
It's all been destroyed.
The whole thing is in shambles.
Have you not been keeping up with what's going on in the news lately to tell you that coming back to this country is a bad idea unless, you know, you have a plan of some sort?
But do you have a plan?
Alex's plan, obviously, is he's over there while they sent the king over here.
So the place is just, like, unruled right now.
And Alex has marched in to fill the gap, I think, and take over.
Oh, King Schming.
It doesn't make a difference.
The king has no power.
He can't stop this.
But he was pretty impressive, though, I have to say, in terms of his defense of constitutional democracy and whatnot, wasn't he?
Yeah, too bad he's not running the country.
It would be nice.
You know, to have somebody who recognized the importance of that.
Look, yesterday, they indicted the former head of the FBI because he took a picture of some seashells that Trump didn't like.
That's literally what happened.
That is literally what happened.
And it's not even the first time they've tried to do this.
They're going to keep going after the guy.
Look, as hackers, we have had a history with law enforcement.
You know, we've had a history of, you know, butting heads with people who are trying to put us in jail.
All right?
It's a given.
And you're going to have an adversarial relationship.
So it's weird for me to be defending the former head of the FBI, but it's more familiar for me to see how justice can be corrupted on an agency level.
In this particular case, though, we're not just talking about a couple of inept secret service agents, you know, that are taking people's rotary phones when they raid their houses because they think there might be evidence in there.
No, this is system-wide, where basically the Justice Department, this is something I'd like you to speak to, Alex, the Justice Department is speaking in Trump's voice, meaning they send out tweets or whatever service they're using these days with, you know, all caps and just this emotion and glorifying of the leader and all that kind of thing and saying the exact same thing.
We have to be saying we have to have a ballroom.
That's so important for our security, which is utter nonsense.
But within a couple of days of the events of Saturday, to have all of this just in motion, you know, doesn't that scare the crap out of you?
Absolutely.
It really does.
It absolutely does.
And the Department of Justice is supposed to be an independent agency that has its client as the United States of America, not necessarily the president of the United States, but the United States of America is the client of the Department of Justice.
And they're supposed to seek justice and work towards justice, not necessarily working towards some kind of political end.
And I think what we see here is the co-opting of the Department of Justice and using the same talking points as the president of the United States is a really it's a scary thing here.
It indicates a lack of independence and indicates a lack of purpose and an objective that is is everything political and nothing independent.
And that's a very scary time, I think, for the United States, because it means that the justice system has been weaponized for political purposes.
It's it's been corrupted.
You know, if this were a Linux installation, we would be wiping the hard drive and starting over again because something clearly went wrong.
And we have the system now where basically it doesn't matter what you say or what you do.
If you piss off Trump, you're going to be the victim.
That is not how a democracy or a remotely democratic system is supposed to work.
Yet that's how it is now.
And I'm concerned that too many of us are just, you know, accepting it, saying, well, that's the way things are.
I know that a lot of big tech is accepting it, in fact, even embracing it.
And that's disgusting.
And we can't ever forget that.
I'm, you know, I'm at a loss.
I don't have the solution, but I think we we damn well better band together.
And dare I say it, 86, all of this.
Yeah, that's a phrase.
Kyle, I would just I would just say that you might be mistaking a lot of people.
A lot of people's disrespect for that as acceptance.
And I think after you've experienced and seen so many of these kinds of things or at least have a lot to a lot of better to compare it to that.
But when something deserves your disrespect, you definitely the cumulative effect is really made accepting things laughable.
Like I'm so beyond that personally.
And I think a lot of other people are like it's it's not that I accept that it's wrong.
It's that I don't really like respect the the kind of authority they're trying to wield at all.
I mean, it just it doesn't it doesn't deserve the respect or acceptance that you're talking about.
Right. Well, until attorneys and police chiefs and people, you know, who have some power stand up to this and say, no, we're not we're not recognizing this as legitimate.
It doesn't really matter what we think, because we have no power to make clear to us over and over again.
But it's not acceptance is what I'm saying.
I'm just saying it might be hard to kind of acceptance.
If you accept your fate doesn't mean you agree with your fate.
You're accepting.
Oh, you know, this is awful, but there's nothing I can do about it.
I know I'm saying kind of the same thing right now.
Well, I just think, you know, especially with May Day coming up, things need to grind to a halt a little bit so that we can address the situation.
Alex, well, well, look, if I chime in there, I think we have an obligation.
We have a duty to call this this type of activity out.
And as you probably saw, Emanuel, you know, and I talked about last week on our radio show about the habeas cases that I've been filing and and the crazy position that the United States has been taking in those inconsistent positions that the United States has been taking with respect to what the law is and how it and how it it should shape certain cases and how it affects certain cases.
And I published an article about this, calling it out specifically on Slate.com and on what was it?
I guess it was yesterday.
It was Tuesday.
All the days are bleeding into into one long day here.
But it was Tuesday and it was the front page of Slate.com was this article about the tactics of the Department of Justice and and basically taking contrary positions on what the law is, the exact type of stuff that we discussed here last week.
And I have to say, I was really pleasantly surprised to see them promote this article and put it on the front page for so long.
And you can still find it up there on on Slate.com.
But I think it's it's important to call this out and to call it like we see it, like we're doing right here on WBAI.
It takes a certain amount of courage, I think, to maintain that type of position.
Absolutely. And, you know, anyone can write articles, you know, letters to the editor, can phone in to TV shows, radio shows, whoever is taking phone calls and express your opinion.
And that's that's definitely a great step.
It's not the solution.
It's a step towards the solution.
And we need more people to be taking that kind of an interest.
That's a really, really good point.
And there's something I think that is understated in it.
And that's that you can have a right to speech, but you must exercise it as well.
I mean, especially when it's warranted or whenever you feel like.
But just to have and, you know, possess it in law and historically doesn't necessarily equate to the power you can have in exercising it.
Yeah. And I'm sorry if I sound angry, but I am angry because, you know, I value freedom and democracy and being able to speak your mind.
And I see all of that, all of that under threat.
And I'm not sure what the bigger threat is, if it's our complacency or the downright evil nature of the people currently running things.
It's it's it's difficult.
Look, we have James Comey, the former head of the FBI, who took a picture on a beach of seashells that spelled out eight, six, four, seven.
Now, OK, let me start by saying that he had every right to go to that beach himself loaded with seashells and arrange them on the beach.
Take an hour or two to do that and write eight, six, Donald J.
Trump. Awful lot of seashells.
But he could have done that.
Then taken a picture of it and put it on the front page of Time magazine, if they would have printed it or, you know, just basically made a huge poster and put it on the side of a building.
I don't know.
It's within his rights to do that.
You can say that he didn't.
He took a picture of what somebody else did.
And all it said was eight, six, four, seven, which, apart from spelling VoIP on a touchstone phone, is is basically a statement saying get rid of number 47.
Number 47 being the 47th president of the United States, Donald J.
Trump.
Eight, six does not mean murder, does not mean kill.
I mean, it probably does now because of how it's been completely dragged through the mud.
But eight, six is a very common term in the hospitality industry, in restaurants and bars.
I know this because I know many people who have been 86 from many bars.
So this this phrase means something.
It does not mean what they're telling you it means.
But to be able to go after somebody of that stature, even, and say that they're threatening the life of the president by taking a picture of seashells with four numbers, it's the height of absurdity.
Everybody knows it's the height of absurdity, but nobody wants to say the emperor has no clothes because we might be next.
And I'm tired of living in fear.
Not that I have been living in fear, but I'm tired of seeing so many of us, you know, even the rich and powerful, maybe especially the rich and powerful, because they fear they're going to lose everything they have.
But you have to stand up to this.
History is not going to judge you nicely if you don't.
And, you know, Jimmy Kimmel, someone who I think is doing a lot for freedom of speech, he told a joke last week.
He told a joke saying Melania Trump looked like a what was the phrase again?
Expectant widow.
Expectant widow.
And what that, you know, what that means, it's a reference to age difference.
Trump is 80, she's 56, which is older than I thought she was.
And I just say that to be annoying.
But that was basically seen by these people, these evil people.
They wanted to blame the events of Saturday on somebody, and they had it in for Kimmel to start with.
So they blamed it on him saying he was encouraging people to kill the president by saying his younger wife is an expectant widow.
If you think about what that phrase means, it's obviously a reference to age difference, how he's going to die much sooner than she does, and how she's expecting that and is looking forward to that because she's just in it for the money.
It might not be true.
It might be in bad taste, but we're entitled to do that.
And Alex, you're in the UK right now.
You know, I know you never watched SNL in the United States, but they have SNL in the UK now.
I advise you to watch that because they are brutal in their humor against their political leaders.
This is nothing to them.
And it's understood that you have every right to say horrible things sometimes about your leaders.
The king is not out of bounds for that.
So, you know, we have a lot to learn.
Now, what happened with Jimmy Kimmel, they're demanding that he be fired from ABC because he made that joke.
He dared to make a joke.
Fortunately, he's not backing down.
So far, Disney, who for some reason is in charge of ABC, they're not backing down.
Not, you know, for now anyway.
And the federal government is now going after their licenses.
They are going after all of ABC's licenses.
You know, they're not due for renewal until 2028, but they're going after them now.
And the message is very clear.
We are punishing you.
And even though the FCC is not supposed to be just following what the leader says, that's exactly what they are doing.
So we're seeing all these things happen in quick succession.
And, you know, it's just because some psycho goes nuts at this press dinner and intimidates many, many people that they decide to interpret it as an attack by anyone left of center in this country on their great leader.
And we just cannot tolerate this.
This is a bridge too far.
Well, I tend to agree with that.
I mean, if the whole foundation of your political movement is to make America great again, I don't understand how you can do that and ignore the First Amendment of the United States Constitution.
Freedom of speech is what makes America great again.
And when you're threatening to yank a TV station's licenses over a monologue, you're basically saying to everybody, sure, you're free to speak.
You've got freedom of speech.
But so long as you clap your hands for the president, that's not freedom of speech.
That's that's basically a censorship regime being handed down from the president of the United States across the entire country.
It's a blanket of censorship.
It has nothing to do with the greatness of America.
How can we make America great again while we are undermining the First Amendment of the Constitution?
It makes zero sense.
And for those who are wondering, how does ABC have TV licenses?
They're a network.
They're not a TV station.
What they're doing is they're going after the stations that are owned by ABC and threatening those licenses.
Even though they had nothing to do with actually creating the content, they want to punish ABC for not following their orders.
And that that is where we are right now.
That is the the nation that we are in.
And a lot of us kind of let it get there.
But this is the time to start talking about it, to start fighting back.
So next week, at this time, we're going to have the monthly call in edition of Off the Hook for WBAI listeners.
So mark that on your calendars tonight on Overtime, which follows the show, 8 p.m. on YouTube channel 2600.
We will be taking calls there as well as discussing things further.
So anyway, I just wanted to address that issue because I think it's damn important.
It's something that we all need to be aware of.
I'm looking at the story about Comey now, and they're saying that each charge, how is there more than one charge?
I'm trying to figure that out.
Did they charge him by the shell?
They say each charge carries a maximum penalty of 10 years in prison.
You know, this is what they want to do.
They want to imprison their opponents.
And he's not even that much of an opponent.
In fact, he's the guy that helped put Trump in power in the first place by investigating Hillary Clinton a couple of days before the election.
Yet, for some reason, he is considered an enemy of the state.
And now they will stop at nothing to punish him for that.
So, yeah, he's facing charges.
I don't know how.
It's more than one charge.
But for something silly like taking a picture.
And the moment he realized that it was being interpreted in that particular way, he deleted it.
He deleted it off, I believe, Instagram.
He said he didn't know what the numbers meant.
And I can believe that.
You know, he's kind of out of it.
And they tried to come after him for this before.
Didn't work.
They're just trying again.
They're going to keep trying.
It's the same tactic that we have seen in the hacker world over the years where, you know, I'm thinking of Kevin Mitnick in particular, where the prosecutor said they were going to parade him around the country and charge him in all different districts until they got the sentence they wanted.
It's a really evil way of thinking, I believe.
And, Alex, I know you have experience with that, working in the court system yourself.
Yeah.
It's, yeah, I think we find ourselves in just a very unfortunate time right now.
And, you know, I think our civil liberties are very much under fire and have been under fire.
And, sadly, this is what was promised to us when Trump was running for re-election this time.
You know, he promised the weaponization of the Department of Justice to persecute his political enemies.
And it's exactly what he's doing.
He's delivering on those promises.
People voted for this.
A majority of America voted for us, which then raises the question, raises the issue, is this what America is now?
Are we still the same country?
We were, let's say, 15, 20 years ago when the Bill of Rights and the First Amendment and the Fourth Amendment meant something.
Or is this the country that we have become?
Well, if it is the country we have become, it doesn't mean it's the country that we have to stay like.
You know, events can change your perspective.
And I like to think that this might be opening up some eyes and waking people up.
And, you know, on that note, I think that we need to be able to communicate with people who did make a mistake and get them back onto the side of logic and freedom and all that would be nice.
But let me ask you something, Alex.
You said this was, I believe, an unfortunate time that we're in right now.
If you found yourself in the mid to late 1700s, would you consider that to be an unfortunate time?
You know, we're fighting a war and, you know, it was kind of messy and inconvenient.
Yeah, well, certainly.
I mean, in the 18th century, I think it was quite an exciting century.
It was definitely a messy time.
A lot going on.
You know, what the Brits called the War for American Independence and what we call the Revolutionary War, I think, was a very important war.
And it established a nation with a written constitution that was a glorious experiment in constitutional democracy.
And it's still very much an experiment in constitutional democracy.
But I think that those very principles that were established in the 18th century, you know, about America are under fire now because they are so important and they're so timeless.
And they enable a population to be informed, to speak with each other, to peaceably assemble and to petition the government for redress, which is exactly what our president right now does not want.
He does not find these civil liberties that make America what it is to be particularly convenient at this time.
And I think we have to continually push back against the erosion of these civil liberties and exercise those rights, because I think I've always maintained that our civil liberties and our rights, they're kind of like muscles.
If you don't continually exercise them, they're going to atrophy.
And once they atrophy, they're very, very hard to get back.
Well, if you were around in the 1700s, you might just want to be left alone and live your life, which was probably agrarian.
But that would be the worst thing you could do.
And had people not stood up and fought for what they believed in, we wouldn't have basically gotten a lot of what we've already had.
We wouldn't be having this conversation now, for instance.
I think we're at a similar time where people need to express themselves in order to determine the future, the real future of this country, perhaps beyond that as well.
Because, you know, I noticed that it doesn't always it doesn't only affect this particular place.
It affects countries all around the world.
I mean, look what's going on in the Middle East right now.
The vast majority of that is because of Trump's ignorance.
And it's driving up prices all over the world.
It's driving up civil unrest everywhere.
So people need to get involved.
And that's how you make change, by getting involved.
If you don't do anything, then someone else is going to do it for you.
So think about those early times.
And if not for this country, then for any place in the world that has built something that survives to this day.
You know, at some point, people had to stand up and make decisions and fight for what they believe in.
If you don't do that, you're guaranteed that you'll have a system that does not serve you.
I think that's especially true in the sorts of community building and things that people are doing already.
And I just think that people should think about setting up the kind of infrastructure, the kind of things that you would want if things go bad.
Or if you were to take advantage of new technologies and sort of offloading from dependence on other things in a good scenario.
Both cases, I think it's sort of a preparation.
So like getting to know your neighbors or establishing community networks or remote networks and finding ways to persist and to navigate what is an increasingly more difficult operating environment in every way from business to just getting by.
I mean, I think about all of the branding this leadership is doing.
It just feels a lot like someone's moving in for a long time.
Yeah.
You know, like putting your face on the passports and on money.
I haven't even gotten to that.
My God.
I'm thinking about this while you guys are talking.
I'm like, wow.
Yeah.
What if things get a hundred or like a thousand times worse?
We're not even halfway through this yet.
Yeah.
I don't know.
I mean, it just seems like that's what's being expected, especially with these attacks on speech and communications media and specifically broadcast and critiques of the administration.
Because we always had parody.
We always had sort of ridicule and stuff, political cartoons and satire.
Like there's a long tradition of that in American politics.
And it was never equated to like terrorism or like just blah.
You're, you know, you're the other side.
So we, we, we label you and cast you as some alongside our, our terrible immigrant problem.
You know, like we're just casting anyone who's not with us as a sort of enemy.
Of course.
Anyone that doesn't look like.
Yeah.
We delineate them.
We have different types of enemies, but they're all in that camp.
They're against us.
And that's the environment.
And then these attacks on like late night hosts and people of stature, like that led the FBI.
I think it's about even if they're petty and fail, because like James Comey, if you see his reaction, he doesn't seem very timid about it.
And I think a lot of people are like, stop bugging me.
Like you're, you have a country to mess up on your own.
Like you're, why attack us?
But the reason is because they want to have a chill amongst people that are already like stressed and a little bit like reluctant to exercise the rights you're talking about.
You see, you raise a very good point there.
He is not intimidated and he shouldn't be intimidated.
He has a lot of support and he's smarter than they are.
But, you know, not all of us will have that support.
Not all of us will have that confidence.
But I think that is a key weapon where if you are targeted, you laugh at the people doing it because they're idiots.
They don't know what they're talking about and they're ultimately going to lose.
And I know a lot of us don't believe that right now because we don't have that confidence.
And that's where we can help each other by giving each other that confidence, by being there.
Like what Alex is doing, you know, helping people who are being threatened with deportation, you know, giving them a chance, giving them hope, giving them that confidence.
This was also evident in Minnesota.
I mean, when some of the ice raids and as it still stands around the country.
So there's a lot of parallels with the sorts of networks and local organization that's necessary to prepare yourself for all eventualities, but just to not be a victim.
Right, right.
And, you know, to say it doesn't involve you, it doesn't concern you, it doesn't affect you, you know, that's missing an awful lot.
You're paying so much more for all kinds of things.
You don't have access to things you used to have access to.
You don't have the rights that you used to have only a few years ago.
It affects you.
You might not care.
You might be telling yourself you don't care.
But it affects you, it affects your kids, your grandkids, and it will affect a lot more people if we don't stand up and do something.
And this is not a political discussion.
This is a discussion about everything that surrounds us, every part of our everyday lives.
And if that means something to us, we should care about it.
And we should point out when something is terribly, terribly wrong.
Alex.
Yeah, I mean, two points on that.
You know, you mentioned the ICE issue and helping these people.
And one thing I'd really like to point out is that even though it's not in the news constantly and maybe ICE has stopped killing Americans on the streets temporarily, perhaps, but their activities are still going on.
It's still very pernicious.
And it's still happening here in New York.
Just this past weekend, I was involved in another habeas case where I had put together the entire petition for rid of habeas corpus on behalf of a woman who was a mother of two kids, been in this country for, I think it was about 10 years or so.
And she was the only caregiver for these two children.
And ICE had continually had her do these check-ins online and then told her to show up in person for an ICE check-in on this past Saturday and instructed her specifically not to bring her children with her, which is a very clear indication that she would be detained and arrested at her ICE check-in.
And so we were prepared.
We were prepared.
We had, I, along with a couple of other pro bono lawyers, had prepared this petition that would be ready to file literally at the moment that ICE detained her.
And thank God we prepared for nothing because ICE actually did not detain her on this past Saturday.
But we were prepared for it to happen.
And I'm really glad that it didn't.
I'm glad that all this work that I did on Friday was for naught.
But this is the fear that people are living in.
Imagine being that woman on Friday night, knowing that the next day might be the last day that you see your two children and that you are going to be arbitrarily detained.
That's how you have to live your life.
That this is America at this point.
And knowing that your life and your freedom and your liberty, your ability to ever see your children again, hangs on a couple of lawyers whom you've never met before in your entire life, kind of jumping in and helping out.
That's insane to be living in this type of America.
And then on Saturday night, and this is the other point I want to make, you know, we've had my son on this show quite a few times.
And it was one of the first times actually Saturday night that, you know, I got in an argument with him at the dinner table and he brought up the position and he said, you know, Sasha's a very smart kid and he's very historically minded.
And he basically was arguing with me at the dinner table and he took the position that he doesn't know if there's anything to be proud of being an American today.
And that was shocking to me.
It was really shocking to me to hear my son say that he's how old he's about to be 13 in a couple of weeks.
And so, you know, he's very smart, very free thinking, very contrarian.
And, you know, he takes after his dad in many ways, and he grew up with with all you lunatics.
So, I mean, what do you expect? Right.
Yeah. So to hear him say that position and my wife and I really pushed back and talked about America and its ideals and why we have to fight for it and the history of this country and how wonderful it is and whatnot.
But then his position is, well, all he's ever known almost his entire life where he can remember what America is, is the presidency of Donald Trump, Biden, and then Donald Trump again, where it's just been one crazy thing after another.
So this generation of children, all they know is an America that is plagued and beset with mindless and inane weaponization of politics, war, ice.
It's a terrible way for kids to see their own country, which I still maintain is an absolutely exceptional place in the world, and there's nothing like it.
And we have to fight for it.
We have to make sure that we continue to keep America great, not in a MAGA sense, but in the sense that we know America and the America that we want it to be.
I think I'm most concerned that he equates Biden with Trump. I hope he's able to see the difference.
Well, I think you do, but even during the Biden presidency, Trump was still very much a presence.
Well, yeah, okay, it was still Trump then. Trump has been around, yes.
Absolutely, yeah, that's it. He's basically been, you know, just poisoning the political dialogue of this country for so many years now.
That children born, children are 12, 13 years old. That's all they know. That's scary.
That's a hugely important fact. And the thing to remember is we let him do this, and we continue to let him do this, and we don't have to. Rob, go ahead.
Yeah, I think that is extremely astute, and I owe Sasha a high five next time I see him.
But the thing that we all, I think, would benefit from remembering is that Donald Trump is not America.
The administration is not America, and we all need to keep connected with the people around us, our neighbors, our fellow Americans, our people who, you know, are siblings in arms and everything.
This Friday, it's the 2600 meeting, but it is also International Workers' Day, also known as May Day, connected to the old celebrations of spring.
But it's also a celebration of the working class and the laborers going back to the 19th century.
In the 1950s, President Eisenhower decided that May 1st, let's not talk about those workers.
That sounds a bit communist. Let's declare May 1st to be Loyalty Day, where we talk about how great America is.
And let's declare it also to be Law Day, where we celebrate the significance of the law of the land.
But it's still May Day.
Law Day? I've never heard that.
Law Day. It was started in the 50s, and presidents since, including Donald Trump last year, reaffirmed that, yes, it's Loyalty Day and Law Day here in the United States.
I remember dancing around the Maypole for some reason as a kid.
I don't know what that was.
I didn't get any of you a Law Day card.
We still have a couple of days.
Yeah, we still have a couple of days.
But also, it is May Day.
It is the celebration of people, the people, not the billionaires, not the oligarchs, not anyone in control, but the people celebrating their, basically, community and their unity.
There is so much stuff going on all over the country and all over the world for May Day.
You could go to the site maydaystrong.org to find all the events going on.
Well, so many of the events going on in this city, all over the country.
There are things in other countries on there.
There's a nice clickable map and all sorts of rallies, protests, and happenings.
Well, I heard there was supposed to be a national strike, and I haven't heard anything about that recently.
I've been looking, too.
You know, getting the message out is a real problem.
There have been strikes and work stoppages.
There was a big deal in Madison.
You want to talk about this one?
In Madison, yeah.
So that's where our family lives.
And I was looking something up because our nephew's school is having a fun run next week, and I was curious about that.
So I was at the school's website, and there is a pop-up on every single page on the website that they're not having school on Friday in their school system because they polled the teachers' union, and over 70% of the staff was going to be calling out on Friday.
So for student security and student safety, they're just canceling school on Friday because so many people are going to be out protesting.
Well, that's a lesson right there.
Kids are going to learn an awful lot on that day.
But, you know, if there is something on a national level going on, you'll hear about it here on WBAI, obviously.
But we need to all as individuals try to find out more and try to make it more meaningful, but not stop there.
You know, there are a lot of ways to express yourself and to get the word out and to get more people involved.
The thing that bothers me, you know, there have been three No Kings protests over the past couple of years.
And first of all, a lot of people I know didn't go.
But what really bothers me is that of the people who did go, so few were young people.
Most of them are people 70 and above.
And maybe that's the case on Long Island, but that is what I observed.
And that points to a real problem.
You know, people should care at all ages, but especially people who are young and ideological and hopefully impassioned by what's going on.
Like, you know, your kid, Alex, he gets it.
He sees that there's something seriously wrong.
But I'm talking about people who are in college, you know, people who are in high school.
Why aren't they showing up?
Why aren't they showing up more?
I know in New York City we get a lot more young people, but that should be the case everywhere.
I couldn't agree more.
I couldn't agree more.
And, you know, it's easy to complain about the young generation and, you know, it makes me feel old to even do it.
But I think that they need our help.
They need our they need our coaxing and they need to understand that, you know, this is something that's fundamental to being an American.
And if they also understood that it could affect change, that being out there on the streets and having your voice heard could affect change.
And it's not just for the sake of doing it in and of itself.
Then then I think they would learn, you know, about about the nature and wisdom of protesting.
It absolutely would affect change.
There's no question about that.
If more people were exerting pressure all the time, I mean, look what happened in Minnesota.
People were on the streets and they weren't leaving and eventually ice back down.
Not not nearly enough, but they did back down.
And it's that kind of, you know, it took horrible events for that to even happen.
But that's the kind of pressure that we need to have 24 seven.
And maybe the way to convince them is to use the media and the mediums that this new young generation is used to these days.
I mean, we have to resort to social media, perhaps, you know, all these all these platforms that I can't stand, like TikTok and Instagram.
And have to see that, you know, if protesting were cool on TikTok or cool on Instagram, then they would show up just like they show up at these, you know, these places that become Instagram famous because they sell cronuts or, you know, big Sundays or something like that all through the city.
We need we need to make somehow these these idiotic, stupid reels and Instagram and TikTok feeds.
You're not winning them over using those adjectives.
No, I'm certainly not.
I'm not trying to at the moment.
But if I were, I'd yeah, I'd be slightly more.
But you're right.
We need people that are into that that can communicate on that level.
I'm not going to judge that.
You know, it's something that we failed as far as connecting with.
There's a lot of ways people communicate.
And, you know, these issues need to be discussed on all of them.
Before we go, we only have a couple of minutes on the subject of ice.
Apparently, ice bureaucrats are now planning to use special facial recognition glasses to collect data on Americans in real time.
These are financial statements that point to the development of a facial recognition platform modeled after commercially available AI smart glasses like Meta's widely widely panned pervert glasses.
Well, it was a mistake naming them that.
But ISIS, ISIS in-house model, it seems, will allow agents to monitor video and reference vast federal databases of biometric information on subjects, regardless of if they've been arrested or even charged with a crime.
Is this the first you're hearing that these databases exist, that this is the kind of thing that our government is planning?
Maybe this is what will outrage you and make you realize that it's time to stop them.
It's time to stand up in opposition to this.
Any thoughts in the minute we have?
I don't think it's worth being surprised that these sorts of things are happening.
I think this is just sort of the default thing.
It's so easy to assume nowadays.
And it's no wonder that people are just getting worn out by all this fury.
I would just say, like, we need to build counter surveillance systems, detectors like the Bluetooth and other things that can find them and identify them.
And we should hack our own to pieces.
I mean, really get access to different versions of these, just like license plate readers, disassemble them, find out what the components are made of, you know, what their strategies are, how they work and build your own, build, repurpose them and and and serve, serve a counter argument, a counterpoint to the to the use cases that they've built around them.
So if you can afford it or pool money, whatever it takes, but there's so we're in we're well positioned to take advantage of how many different things are out there.
Every evil piece of technology can be used for good if you gain control of it.
And that's something that as hackers, we can we can spread the knowledge of we can teach, we can experiment.
And I hope that's what we do.
I really do.
I also hope people support WBAI.
Go to WBAI.org.
Give to WBAI.org and support the station so that we can have conversations like this and continue when they're most needed.
And we'll see you again next week at the same time.
Again, we'll be doing a call in show next week on WBAI.
We're we'll be taking phone calls later tonight on YouTube on channel 2600.
And Rob, you want to say a word or two about the meetings coming up?
Yep.
So we're starting in the evening, around six, seven is usually when things get started.
But you had to say that, huh?
I did.
And you can join us.
I'll be there.
Love to say hi.
Members of your own community.
And as I was saying before, the real power in fighting against any of the crap that's going on right now is connecting with your local community.
This is how you do that in the hacker world is go to a 2600 meeting, nyc2600.net.
All right.
With that, we're out for the night.
We'll see you next week.
Good night.
Good night.
Good night.
It's you that I'm talking to. It's you that I'm talking to.
How'd you heard the latest news about the boy who was shot and abused?
The funny thing is, that's not all. It was your name that was called.
It's you that I'm talking to.
It's you that I'm talking to.
Now you're cute for being a good man. Take your marksman to the laurels of death.
Now let this be a lesson to you. Rootie, I'm talking to you.
It's you that I'm talking to.
It's you that I'm talking to.
guitar solo
Pick it up, pick it up
You're going around cause a disaster in my city
Now did you know you could never win?
But I tried
You had your family, they were running around
Trying to stop you from going down
It's you that I'm talking to
It's you that I'm talking to
Yes, it's you that I'm talking to
It's you that I'm talking to
Yes, it's you, you, you that I'm talking to
It's you that I'm talking to


And good evening, everybody. It's off-the-hook overtime here on YouTube, and I'm here with Kyle.
Check.
And out in Signal Land, we have Rob T. Firefly, Gila, and Alex.
Yes, all of the above.
Hello.
All right. Well, that was a lively discussion, don't you think?
It was, yes.
Yeah, and you can't come back, Alex. You can't come back now. You have to stay there.
Yeah, I hope that's not the case. I do want to come back, you know, shockingly.
Yeah, I would. I think, you know, I still think our country's pretty great.
But I also think, and to bring the discussion back to hacker culture and things,
I think this contrarian viewpoint and taking a long view of things and understanding what's happening,
the system, the vulnerabilities, and being able to shout out the vulnerabilities of this particular system
from the rooftop, from someplace like WBAI, literally rooftops of Manhattan here,
is an example of why the hacker mindset right now is a necessary civic virtue.
I think we need to have these types of discussions.
We need to be able to deconstruct what's happening here from the perspective
and the framework of looking at this as a system,
much in the same way that a hacker would dissect any type of technological system
that has vulnerabilities. And I think that's what we're doing.
And I think that's, I'm trying to preempt some of the criticism I'm sure that we'll face
because of the politics of it all.
Well, I mean, that's absurd because what are you supposed to do?
Just not, you know, pretend things aren't happening and just go about your business
as if everything is fine. That is unhealthy. And we will never do that.
We never have done that. And I dare say, most people in our community are, you know,
paying attention. I sure hope so. Because we have such skill, such promise, such, you know,
potential of actually making significant changes. I mean, you know, there are so many people
in the tech industry right now who have such power. And unfortunately, many of them have been
corrupted. And they're using that power for not the best things. But that doesn't mean that's the
final chapter. It doesn't mean somebody can't come along and do something better and fix all
their mistakes. You have to believe that. If you stop believing that, then what's the point? You
might as well just give up and let the oligarchs and dictators rule everything. You know, there are
people who are good with that. You know, they know what they're doing. And they basically are okay
with it. And that's sad. Rob?
That's an important point to make, is that you always hear when having these discussions with
anyone, there's always someone who is like, well, I don't get involved. I don't, like, I'm not a
political person. I don't want to get into all of that. And that attitude in itself is taking
a side. It's a very loud taking a side. It's taking the side that, yeah, everything you're
seeing around you is fine. And you're okay with that. And you're not looking to make any changes
or, you know, even consider the fact that we maybe don't have everything right and could be doing
something better. So, yeah, it's, you know, we've all got a point of view on the world around us. We
have our, you know, our, what we see and hear and learn and experience that all adds to our
understanding of the way things are. And with an understanding of the way things are, is a way,
you know, kind of, kind of the part of your mind that thinks, is this the way things ought to be?
Is this, you know, is there a better way? And particularly in the hacker community, I think
we are generally clever enough to say, yeah, there's things we could be doing better. Here's
how we're going to figure out how to do it. Yeah. And, you know, it's, I'm not a political
person either. That might surprise you, but I don't consider myself to be a political person.
I'm not running for politics. I don't get involved in politics. You know, I try to stay away
from long meetings and, you know, all these just torturous sessions of dotting I's and crossing T's
and all that kind of thing. I'm a person. I'm a civilian who's paying attention to what's going on
around me. And politicians tend to be involved in that because they're the ones that are dictating
policy. So, yeah, I've got an opinion on that. It doesn't make me political. It just makes me aware
and, you know, somebody who cares. And I dare say that's what most people are.
So by condemning the conversation as political, you're basically telling people, shut up, let
the politicians do everything. And we just watch the ballgame, you know. By the way, are the
Knicks playing tonight or was that just last night? What? Nobody knows. Okay, great. Thank you.
I don't follow tennis.
Thanks for nothing. All right.
I'm curious what people are doing.
Barking up the wrong tree there.
I'm curious what people are doing, you know, I guess from all sort of points of view. But
in general, like what are you doing in light of things that are going on? Technologically
speaking, with the advances that are coming along, are you retraining? Are you out of a job? Are you
thinking about what your life might be like in the next five or 10 years? Are you thinking
that you're going to have to, like, learn new tech? Like, are there technology, like new
technologies? Are there older things that you're, older skills that you're, you're thinking
about? Are you doing kind of both? Like, kind of familiarizing yourself with newer things and
also looking at some kind of lower tech ways of incorporating activity or information and skills
and things you can do to organize into your life? I'm open to ideas. I really am curious because
I, we say a lot that I think people feel like paralyzed or something. And I think it's, it's in
response to things that generally when you hear a news story or a political story, like you don't
really have a huge, like bit to say about it as a citizen. That's why we elect people to go to those
meetings. Right. So, um, it can be kind of jarring. You're like, okay, well, what do I do? I have to go
and like run 10,000 errands and stuff. So like that, that can be a stilted sort of conversation
on average. But, um, when it starts becoming about like, well, just disruptive to day-to-day life,
that's the stuff that people start saying like, wow, something's off and maybe I should like
adjust. Cause we're very adaptive. We're very, um, kind of, uh, we have a lot of ingenuity.
We are innovative. We, we can adjust to, to even, um, extraordinary situations.
But what does it take to have that confidence to be able to say that, that we have this ability,
we have this power because a lot of people are programmed to just stop believing in their own
abilities and to simply follow instructions and do what the boss tells them.
I think there's a lot of nihilism. That's, that's, I think a term that is, uh,
underutilized in this moment, I think, um, from all generations, but, uh, yeah, maybe,
maybe there's other terms that, um, illustrate or, or describe that, but it is, um, power and
strength and power in numbers. And I gotta tell you, you know, everything you do helps being here
once a week, talking with you guys about these things. I feel better afterwards. I feel,
you know, somewhat empowered. I feel, uh, like there is a chance. I just feel good expressing
myself and hearing what other people have to say as well. And I think everybody needs to do that to
a degree. And everybody has opinions. Everybody has perspectives, share yours, learn from others,
you know, write things, talk to people. It does help and it will lead to ideas. It will lead to
change. You know, we're not just sitting around complaining. We're actually, uh, trying to think
of different ways of doing things, solutions that work, ways of bringing people together. That's all
so essential and, but you have to do it. Yeah. It's a sort of critical analysis of the day and age
and we're questioning and questioning the reality that we're experiencing and comparing it to what other
people's perception of that reality is. And I think ultimately, like we may, um, get mired down in
so many stacks of articles you bring to the show and preparing, like we're just, we're really, um,
steeped in it sometimes, but I, I have noticed, I mean, the cultural mood around some of this,
the, the, the art, the music, the kind of, um, general consensus about what these technology
companies are or what, um, using phones does to you. I think that is really, really encouraging
because, and I mean, we're just, it's a part of the conversation, but I really have noticed that
on average, everybody is aware of this stuff. They, I was, I was watching TV, um, Euro news
had a, uh, just a, a highlight of an art installation and they had those robotic dogs,
but they had like lifelike heads of like all the tech companies and they were like milling around
like in a dog park. It was hilarious, but like art and the ridicule, the, um, the people taking some
of the punches, like we talked about earlier, the, the, um, comedians or other people in the public eye
of other, you know, higher or let's say elevated stature, people with a platform. Um, they,
they are all a part of that, um, awareness because people that are busy day to day that don't really
pay attention, they catch wind to stuff like that, or they hear people laughing about something
is a way of spreading, um, a sort of awareness and, and getting, keeping the, um, the cultural
attitude up to date. Right. And there's so much when, you know, you have complicated
technologies or things that really are hard to explain when you have people interpreting it
and, um, riffing on it, laughing about it, or, you know, talking about it in different ways,
it can take on forms that people really do understand and empowers them. They understand
when things are dangerous because they identify with a way someone characterized it or a story
they told about it or something like that. And I think that's really, um, easy to forget when
you're, you're paying attention to a lot of the negative, negative stories, or you're looking at
people's critiques of how you talk about things. Okay. Well, other people talk about things in other
ways. Yeah. Yeah. You can't fixate on that, but I just feel really good whenever I see, you know,
some act of dissidence or just rebellion from somebody in the media, whether, you know, it's a talk show
host or, or a comedian. Um, you know, these are ways of knowing that you're not alone and hearing
different perspectives and laughing at the absurdity of it all, because, you know, we stop laughing,
we've lost, and we, we must never do that. We always have to, you know, maintain positivity because
that brings more people to our side and people who will be with us that will be sharing the experience
and the stories and the ideas. So, you know, don't give up on people. Don't give up on yourself.
There is so much potential here and this is the time, you know, it might feel hopeless. It might
feel crazy, but I think that's just the universe's way of, uh, of saying, get off your ass now,
because there's never going to be a better time and, uh, you know, be on the right side of history
and people will talk about it for hundreds of years. What do you guys think out there in signal land?
I think that's a, that's a solid outlook. I mean, it is, it is so easy to just get depressed and get
lethargic and feel like there's, you know, feel overwhelmed. And, you know, I've been listening
to this program for, I don't know, about a hundred years. Um, I've been involved with it for at least a
portion of a hundred years and we've been through administrations of, uh, all kinds. Um, you know,
there was, there was the Trumps, but there was also, there was Biden, there was Bush senior,
there was Bush junior, um, Obama, Clinton, um, you know, things on both sides, things where
different, uh, groups were more or, or less in control. And there are always things that can be
improved. Even if you're on one or other of the political sides or teams or wings or whatever you,
however you want to think about it, there are things that your side is doing wrong that, uh,
you know, could be done better. And it is, it is so easy to just get mired in all the crap and all the,
all the absolute filth that's, uh, you know, going on in the world. And, you know, people get radicalized
when they, when they end up just like watching nothing but Fox news or, you know, reading Murdoch
newspapers or things like that. And it's really, it's really important to like, just go outside,
connect with humans, see what's actually going on out there, uh, rather than, I guess, uh, just,
just offloading the responsibility of being a human in our society to, uh, whatever, whatever your,
your favorite person on TV says that you should be thinking at that point, or as we're seeing more
and more, whatever, uh, a robot chat bot somewhere thinks you should be thinking at that moment.
Yeah. You know, I, I agree with just about all of that, uh, Rob, it's, um, it's vitally important,
you know, to, to have a critical eye towards the things you stand for as well. But I, I cannot stand
people who insist on both siding everything. You know what I mean? We're, we're basically all,
they're all evil and they do the same thing and they're just, no, they're not just as bad. Sure.
You can point to hypocrisy, you can point to faults and failures, but you have to be able to realize
that, you know, one group of people is doing pure evil and the other group of people,
it might be more on the incompetent side or, or whatever, but they're not, they're not the same.
They're whatever. Yeah. It's that some things just do not compare. No. I mean, we, we were living
through all kinds of frustration. I've, I've protested against every administration, you know,
since I was a toddler. Uh, and, um, uh, I can tell you they all have their faults, but nothing
has ever been like this. And what's funny is, you know, I said that under, under Bush the second,
because nothing was ever like that either. The guy was incompetent. Do we remember that? He was,
he was, okay. Well, you know, this far surpasses that. And, you know, I don't know if this is a
trend or it's just going to get crazier and crazier. I don't see how you can get crazier than this,
but yeah, sure. I guess you could, you know, uh, Kim Il-sung could, uh, come back to life or,
I don't know. There's all kinds of possibilities, I suppose. Yeah. I, I wasn't, I wasn't looking to
both sides, anything, but I do think that the very, the very problems of people just offloading
responsibility and thinking, oh, I'm just going to be on this side and just automatically think
whatever that side is doing is great. Um, that's what led to what we have now. That's what led to,
uh, uh, you know, a chintzy reality TV dude being in charge of the country because it's, uh, it's,
it's just this, this idea that, you know, it doesn't matter who's up there as long as they've
got the same letter after your name, after their name than, uh, you do at the, at the voting booth.
And so it all, it all bears examination. It all bears questioning. Um, there is definitely one side
right now that is far more evil than the other. Um, and, uh, if fighting that huge evil means, uh,
you know, supporting the, the biggest opponent they have, um, maybe that's, uh, maybe that's something to
think about, but it's, uh, it's really, you know, we have to, we have to think we have to use our
brains and we're, we're meant to be good at that in this community. But I think that's also a part
of the issue is that so many things that are being consolidated, like when venture capitalists wind up
owning newspapers and then the newspapers closed down. And I'm sorry, since the merger, how many
companies own like two thirds of the, it's a very depressing number. Yeah. Television stations.
It's impossible to keep track of. It changes by the minute. And because so much information is coming
from so few places and it then becomes incumbent upon us to make sure we're hearing as much as we can
from disparate voices and truth telling voices, impartial voices, if those exist. Um, and I don't
know, Emmanuel, it kind of puts me in mind of some of the stuff you wind up saying about some of the
balkanization of social media. Is there fewer and fewer places to go for one stop shopping in so many
different areas that social media has become bup, bup, bup, bup, bup, bup, bup, bup. And news has
become bup, bup, bup, bup, bup, bup, bup. And I realized it's a radio, it's an audio medium and
nobody can see what I'm doing with my hands except Rob. But, um, it's, I, the way that so many things
have become compressed and have become fire hosed, I think has succeeded in echo chambering us into so
many places and cattling us into so many places. And I was reading something about, um, I'm not
quite sure how to help you. No one was talking to you. No one was talking to you. Oh my God. How
many times does that happen? More than you'd think. Um, but the, um, one of my cousins said something
on social media earlier, she posted just eight, six, four, seven. And the idea that so many people
have been kettled into, kettled into violence or kettled into preparation for violence, I think. And
the, sorry, Saturday night, we're on YouTube now. So we can say it was a setup, right? It was a total
setup. Well, I mean, they're playing it that way, but, uh, it happened. I mean, you know,
there are lunatics out there. There's no question about that thing. That's interesting. The guy wrote
a train across country. And that means since we've ridden trains many times across the country,
you know, if you go to the dining room, you sit with somebody, somebody probably hung out with
this guy. Somebody probably had a conversation with him, or maybe he was sitting in the, in the
passenger car and you sat next to him for two days. You know, you learn something about people that way.
And I haven't heard that perspective, but no, I think, I think it's, it's, it's real. It's just,
you know, for a moment, a brief moment, and I'm ashamed to even say this because it makes me feel
naive, but Trump actually seemed to be handling it well, you know, and that first part of the 60
minutes interview, I don't know if you guys have seen this. He was, he was, you know, talking to
the reporter and being rational and human. And then as soon as she read part of his manifesto
that referred to a pedophile, and he assumed it was him, he just completely lost it and turned into
the ugly person that we see, you know, far more often than any of us want to see. And I realized,
you know, no, he learned nothing from this. It is not going to, it's not going to bridge any gaps.
It's not going to be any kind of, you know, bringing us together type of a thing. It's going
to be used by this administration against their enemies is exactly what has happened. And it's
only Wednesday there. They are coming after, if your phone number ends in eight, six, four, seven,
I would, I would try to change it now because yeah, who knows what they're going to think.
What about eight, six, four, five? Do you think they'd retroactively have an issue with that too?
You know, they should, they should, but.
Speaking of four or five, by the way, greetings to the 45 people who are currently with us
on the live stream.
Well done.
How was that for a segue?
Pretty good, pretty good.
Like I'm a radio broadcaster or something.
Oh, now it's 46. So yeah, chat is interesting.
Can I just say, you know, talking about building better systems and the balkanization of social
media and all that, we have been getting all kinds of submissions at Hope for talks. And many people
are addressing these very issues and they have solutions. They have things they're working on.
They have ideas. And I am just so blown away by that. Now, tomorrow is the early deadline. What
that means is April 30th, the talks that get submitted by that time, they get first crack
at the schedule. And we'll be accepting talks for a while after that. But those are the ones that
we're going to look at. And if it's a really good talk, there's no way that it's not going to get
scheduled because it was submitted before the early deadline. So if you have an idea for a talk,
tomorrow is the last day you can do that and be part of early submission. You can still submit
afterwards, but you might have more competition. But we have had so much in the way of really,
really good submissions as we always do. But it makes me feel good just looking at them come in.
It's going to be an amazing event when they're all presented, whether you're attending online
or in person. It's something that I think is so important for our community is to share our
knowledge and come together and realize that we're not alone. Oh, and the info to get all that
information, hope.net, including how to get tickets and stuff like that. Excellent. Happening at the
New Yorker Hotel in beautiful downtown Manhattan. That's right. It's in New York. Hence the name,
the New Yorker Hotel, where Nikola Tesla lived and died. So there'll be there'll be more to say
about that. All right. Shall we take phone calls? I am ready. That's a great idea. All right. Well,
who would like to give out the phone number? And as soon as you say the last digit, the phone number
will become alive. Hopefully. Okay, well, you can you can give us a call at United States phone number
802-321-4225. And the phone line is now active. And again, that is country code one if you're out of
the country. 802-321-4225. And through the good offices and skill of our friend Kyle, if you are
a visual type person, you can also see it on the screen right now. Yeah, I put the number up for us
to share on the video stream. And I'm waiting to hear the phone ring. Last week, we had significant
trouble with the phone. But I think we solved all that. And I do hear the phone ringing. So that's
a good sign. Okay, and thank you for moving the caller ID box over to me, Kyle, because I know who this
is. Hi, Rebel. How are you? Hi, I'm. Hi, man. Hello. How are you? It's a joy to hear your voice.
Yes. Okay, I just was, I have a question about clipboard. But before I get to that, I noticed
that I've been getting a lot of text messages from phone numbers, and like WhatsApp messages
from phone numbers, a regular phone number, theory code phone number. And they're like, you know,
these scam tests, you know, like, would you like to invest in this? And, you know, it's from like
overseas. I see videos that are done. You go to people, then, you know, these texts that
say, these promotional texts that say, like political ads and stuff. How do they be taking
up all these phone numbers? You know? Yeah. Well, there's a lot of phone numbers out there.
They know, just because it comes from a particular phone number doesn't mean it's necessarily
using that phone number, too, especially using something like WhatsApp. They could be using all
kinds of different formats. They could be using six digit numbers. You know, you don't know exactly
how they're doing it. No, no, it's not six digit. No, it's actually area code and phone number.
So I know that some text messages come in as three digits, like three digits dash or four
digits, you know, but these are actual phone numbers. It doesn't mean they necessarily have
those phone numbers. You can call them and find out, but I doubt they do. Yeah, I know. I called
them, but it says, the person you're calling is not able to take calls right now or something,
and please leave a message. Uh-huh. You know, but they're like taking up all the phone numbers.
You know, here's what I think would be a good project, Rebel. I think
finding out how these people operate, I mean, how do you get a job doing that in the first
place, sending out spam to people on text messages? I think you should pursue that. I think you should
become our intrepid reporter who is going undercover and becoming one of these, and then you can report
back and explain how they work. No, it's AI doing it. It's not, you know. Well, you have to find out
if that's true. AI is getting, you know, blamed for a lot of things, and it's getting kind of pissed
off that it's taking the blame for all this, and I don't think we want that. Well, I mean,
it would be a good panel or discussion at Hope that, you know, about how these scans work and
how, you know, what they do and their tactics. Oh, yeah. AI is, there's a discount for AI if you're
attending the conference. So, yeah, that could work out. Well, I'm going to be in, I don't know,
the hope is 15th of June, August, or the middle of August, right? It's the 15th, the 16th, and the
14th. Okay, because the 14th, all right, because I'm going to Italy and Switzerland, Switzerland and
Italy in the end of July and the beginning of August. So, I'm going to make sure that I come
back for the hope conference. Yes, if I don't see you there, I'll be disappointed.
Let's see. What else? I'm trying to figure out the clipboard. Sometimes I copy things to clipboard
by accident, and now I've got to figure out how to get it out of clipboard. The windows,
which is... Please don't involve us in your operating system issues. And speaking of operating
systems, another thing for hope would be if somebody could bring like an old AS400,
or one of those kind of IBM, old IBM systems, or a tech system, digital equipment corporation.
Yeah, they could just throw that in a backpack and then bring it to the conference, I'm sure.
And set up the network, like two or three terminals, VT320 terminals.
You should be telling them to train to bring that equipment because that's a heavy lift.
Yeah, it's literally a heavy lift.
Or like coordinate some rigging, you know, or at least a team of people. You need some spotters
and all kinds of...
Well, there's a helipad on the roof. We could just lower it there.
A pulley?
Maybe two pulleys.
I'm going to tell everyone there's a helipad on the roof. It's sort of like an update to the
swimming pool on the roof thing. I just want to see all these like, you know, more well-to-do
hackers show up with mainframes and say, wait, where do we land the thing? And then I'll
say, no, it was all a joke, and everybody will have a good time.
I don't... I'm not talking about bringing a mainframe. I'm talking about a mini-computer.
I know that, but some people have mainframes. Don't judge.
Well, I mean, yeah, but what are you going to put the high floor and the special circuitry...
That's why it's funny. Yes. Mm-hmm. All right. What else, Rebel? One more item, then we're
going to move on.
Oh, let's see. I guess that's it.
Okay, then. Goodbye.
What's that mean? I'm sorry. I'm feeling a bit punchy, but, you know, you have to move
fast when Rebel's involved because he's clever. He'll figure out a way to be on the phone for
another 20 minutes. Yeah, and look, it's late where I am. I want to be able to at least get
through, you know, one or two more phone calls. Yeah, I'm thinking of you. Yeah, I appreciate
that. You're welcome. Got to journey tomorrow morning and, you know, all kinds of stuff.
How are you journeying, by the way? Train, of course. Oh, of course. Yeah, that's the best
way. Very cool. Very cool. Yes, Kila, go ahead. Our friend Lex says, wasn't there a Zeppelin
hookup? On the New Yorker Hotel? I don't know. You tell me. Is that true? Someone look up where
the Zeppelin hookups were in Manhattan. I found the grating where Marilyn Monroe's skirt, like,
was blown up into the air. You know, that's a historical site in Manhattan.
For what it's worth, by the way, that happens if you're a skirt wearer. That happens
all over Manhattan. Right, but there was a particular one that happened to her and it
was filmed. It happened to me today. Yeah, but unless you had cameramen around
you and, you know, the whole, there was a newsreel about it. Coming back to my office
from lunch and skirt and it was a shitty day. Were there construction people, like, cheering,
holding sandwiches? What is this? Not that I heard. I, you know, I just, I went red in
the face and I kind of blacked out for a second because I was still nervous.
Wow. We have fun. Yeah, but I would like to know where the hookups were. That's,
for the record, if you... No, that came out wrong. You know what I mean.
New Yorker, New Yorker Hotel Zeppelin hookup. You get information about a robbery of Led Zeppelin.
Led Zeppelin got robbed?
Apparently, I, hang on. I had nothing to do with that. Was this a robbery of a Zeppelin
or did the band Led Zeppelin get robbed? Okay, so here's what I'm learning. I would like
it on the record that the first non-AI generated response on Google for New Yorker Hotel Zeppelin
landing hookup is from Sniffy's. I don't know what Sniffy's is. What's Sniffy's?
Sniffy's is a gay-oriented hookup app. And... Wow. Yeah, so apparently the New Yorker Hotel,
super hot cruising spot. So if that's something that would entice you to come to Hope, please
feel free. Apparently, there was a Zeppelin dock on the Empire State, but there was not
one at the New Yorker. Yeah, because they got that big, you know, stick at the top of the
Empire. What do they call that thing? Mast antenna? I'm going to go stick. How did people get down
from there? They tied the Zeppelin up there. Very carefully. What, did they slide down the
ropers? I'm woefully ignorant on this. I really am. It's a slide. All right. Well, something
happened on the roof of the New Yorker. I don't know what. Talking of things that did or didn't
happen, they had the event, the public event of Marilyn Monroe over that subway grate, and
there were newsreels and photographers and media there, and it was all very exciting. But
the footage they filmed was not the footage they ended up using in the film, The Seven
Year Itch, to do that famous scene. They had to go back to Los Angeles, build a fake subway
grate, and film her over that one for the scene they used in the film. Just a bit of Hollywood
illusion shattering for you all. Well, thanks for shattering that illusion. That was something
that was a prized memory of New York that didn't exist. All right. So phone number 802-321-4225.
Phone lines are open, I believe, and we'll take the next phone call.
Absolutely. And if you'd like to call us toll-free, you can use US toll-free number
833-755-2600, which was arranged through a very generous friend of the show.
Someone on the YouTube chat asks, where is Alex that is late at this hour? Someone didn't
listen to our radio hour, it seems. Alex, you want to refresh folks' memories of where you
are? Could have just said. Could have just said, but we have to give the guy a lecture.
That's fine.
That's it. Yeah. I am in Manchester in the United Kingdom. Not Manchester, New Hampshire, or
Manchester, Vermont, but Manchester, England. I don't think anybody would have thought of
those other two Manchesters. Hang on.
You don't think so?
In Manchester, people think UK. They don't think New Hampshire.
That's right.
They don't think Vermont. Did you say New Hampshire? I don't even know if I got the states right.
Yeah.
Manchester, New Hampshire. Isn't that the airport? I flew into the airport there.
I don't know. There might be an airport there.
I would hope it would be the airport you flew into.
I was going to a wedding in Maine, and I flew into New Hampshire and rented a car and drove.
Why didn't you fly into Bangor?
Because it was less expensive and closer, because we were in nowheresville, Maine.
Yes. However, given how everyone responded when I sang last week, I would like everyone
to thank me, because I have not sung the Manchester, England, England song from Hair, which has been
stuck in my head since you told us where you were.
I thought you were going to sing the Manchester City chant for the football.
Emmanuel.
I think it would blow out our equipment here, because it involves a lot of shouting.
Emmanuel, on what planet would you ever think that I would know the chant for either of
the Manchester football teams?
The World Cup is coming here in just a few weeks, okay?
I was told that if you're not going to a game, you're supposed to stay in your house.
Doing crazy things to people.
So who knows what people know?
People are paying millions of dollars for tickets.
FIFA is corrupt as hell, and they need to be 86ed as well.
They do.
Did you hear that the chair of Finland's Football Association has called for a full FIFA investigation?
I hope so.
Oh, and to what, the fake trophy they gave Trump?
The fake trophy they gave Trump, and also, apparently, there are four points of malfeasance.
Only four?
Oh, so far so far.
Wow.
Hey, why isn't the phone ringing?
802-321-4225.
I hope the phone's not broken again.
Alex, if we have a little time to kill, the person who wasn't listening to the radio hour
would like to know, what's Manchester like versus London?
It's not that hard a question, Alex.
Yeah, I had to unmute myself there.
Otherwise, nobody would hear me.
I was being kind and making lots of noise over here while you guys were talking, so I didn't
want to interrupt.
But Manchester, I think it's a great city.
We talked about it a little bit on the radio portion of our programming here this evening.
But, yeah, a lot of fun.
Very quirky city, I think, really fond of its quirkiness.
Yeah, I was at a couple different pubs tonight, in addition to, I think, one of the best Indian
food places I've ever been, this place called Akbar's in Manchester.
Unbelievably good Indian food up here.
Very Southeast Asian, a lot of Southeast Asians here in Manchester as well, which I think explains
the prevalence of Asian food and flavor here.
But also a lot of history when it comes to computing and computation.
And Alan Turing was up here.
There is a memorial to Alan Turing.
They have a statue of him sitting on a bench in a park holding an apple.
And the apple both represents the Newton.
Obviously, it's kind of a throwback to science and to Newton, as well as the Garden of Eden
and Temptation, the apple in its hand.
And there is a...
It's actually...
Let me see if I can pull this up and read it to you guys, because I think it was particularly
cool and very...
I guess, I don't know what the right word is here, kind of forward-looking or...
I guess forward-looking is not the right word, but I think apologetic might be the right word.
But there is a plaque underneath Alan Turing's feet in front of this bench that says,
Alan Matheson Turing, 1912 to 1954, father of computer science, mathematician, logician,
wartime codebreaker, victim of prejudice, which I think is pretty cool.
Pretty neat to note that he is a victim of prejudice because he was openly gay at the time.
And that was considered a crime in the United Kingdom to be gay.
And it cost him his job in terms of working in code-making and code-breaking because he was gay
and subject to what people believed then made you susceptible to being blackmailed.
And therefore, you were unfit to keep state secrets.
So, I think it was pretty neat to see that as part of that plaque and dedication to Alan Turing,
recognition that he was a victim of prejudice.
And The Imitation Game is the film that documents that.
That's right.
Benedict Cumberbatch, who played Julian Assange in a different film.
So, it's, yeah, a lot of history.
A lot of history.
Hey, Alex, let me ask you a trivia question to prove you're in Manchester.
What color are the buses?
The buses?
Jeez.
I think they're yellow.
Yeah, you're right.
They are yellow.
They're transitioning to yellow.
Yep, not red like in London.
Yeah, that's right.
I think they're yellow.
And, you know, they have an interesting, like, kind of tram system that runs throughout the city, too.
And it's a pretty big city.
You know, it's not nearly as big as London, but it's got some really beautiful views and vistas.
To me, Manchester, you know, it's an industrial town, right?
So, it feels a bit like East London to me.
East London being, you know, a lot more industrial than kind of the West End.
So, it kind of feels like a big East London to me.
Yeah, I like East London.
Yeah, I like East London, too, yeah.
But it also kind of feels a little bit like the 90s here, in a sense.
Like, people are very individualistic and unique.
And there is, you know, no kind of - I think people feel very free to be themselves here.
And, I don't know, there's something about it, I feel like, that harkens back to the 90s up here.
And I like it.
You sure it's not Oasis?
No, I'm certain it's not Oasis.
That, I think, was one of the low points of the 90s.
I can't stand Oasis.
I never could.
All right.
I did need to unleash all that hostility.
Yeah.
I mean, almost as much as SNL.
But, you know.
Oh, wow.
Wow.
That was uncalled for.
There we go.
Let's start it up now.
Yep.
Okay, we have -
I mean, SNL UK has been, like, killing it.
Oh, yeah.
The UK version?
Wonderful.
I think it's better than the U.S. version.
I really do.
You know, what's amazing about that show, first of all, they can curse, like we can here.
But what they do, they have a lot more energy.
Like, let's say, you know, the host is in a sketch, right?
They're in this live sketch that takes place just like SNL.
And then they have to go and, like, last week they had to introduce the Foo Fighters.
So they don't have a commercial.
They run from the stage they were just in a sketch to where the band is and they introduce the Foo Fighters.
And the camera follows them, yeah.
Yeah, or they run to where the closing is happening, where everybody's gathered on stage.
And they have to do this without a break.
They're still in costume.
And they never do that in America.
They always have a nice break where people are able to change and all that.
So you feel like you're watching a real live show, even if you're watching it on tape.
Also, I feel like the Weekend Update segment on the UK one, like, they are so not pulling punches compared to even the current American Weekend Update.
Uh-huh.
That's what I meant by it.
They go right for it.
Yeah, they're brutal.
They are brutal as far as critiquing their leaders or celebrities.
You know, 86 is nothing to them.
No, it's fantastic.
I'm really enjoying it.
And do you know who the host is this week?
I do not.
Amy Lou Wood.
Oh.
Yeah, from White Lotus, Sex Education.
Was she a Barbie?
I feel like she was a Barbie.
I don't know.
Was she a Barbie?
Strike three.
Okay.
I don't know any of the references, but that's fine.
That's fine.
There's so many references these days.
We have a phone call and a patient person, hopefully, on the phone.
Good evening.
You're on Overtime.
Yeah, I'm still here.
Yeah.
I just had a couple points.
My first question is, do you have meetings in Florida, Miami?
Like meetings, do you know?
Do we have, Rob, can you look this up?
Do we have Miami?
I know we have Florida.
We have a bunch in Florida.
Florida, but I'm not sure exactly.
I would think Miami should be there.
Loading here, Florida.
We have somebody looking it up right now.
Okay.
Colorado.
There's one in Boca, one in Jacksonville, and one in Orlando.
My Florida geography is for shit, so I don't know how much that helps you, but currently
we have one in Boca, Jacksonville, and Orlando.
Any of those near Miami?
Yeah, well, not too far.
Yes, not too far.
Okay.
How can I see these?
Is there a website or something where I can find out about this?
If there's a website, it's listed.
Actually, you guys would know if you're looking at it right now.
So if you go to 2600.com slash meetings, scroll down to the United States, scroll down
to Florida, there does not appear to be any contact information for any of these three
meetings.
But it tells you where they are.
It tells you where they are.
And so you know where to show up.
You know where and you know when.
Yeah.
Oh, the address is there.
Okay.
Okay.
And the default time is five o'clock on Fridays.
And just look for people that, you know, look like hackers, I guess, or might have a
copy of 2600 or some piece of equipment or something like that.
But it's also possible people don't show up that week.
You know, it does happen sometimes.
It's basically, you know, a place where people have been, where people say they are going
to be.
And, you know, it depends on how many people actually decide to do it that week.
Oh, and my other point is, I found out, I mean, Alex is in the UK.
So, you know, I happen to run into this story today.
In the UK, they have what they call a television license.
Oh, yeah.
I wonder if Alex can speak on this.
Like, this is a license where just owning a TV is, you have to have an almost like a
car, which I thought was crazy.
Well, it dates back.
It dates back to before the internet.
And they were, they're actually these vans that would drive around and they could detect
the RF from TVs.
And if, if they detected RF from a television in a house that wasn't paying a license, they'd
pay a visit.
And if there was a TV there, they would have to pay the fine and, and the licensing fee.
But, you know, the, the positive part of that is that those, those license fees pay for the
BBC and the BBC provides so much to the people of the UK, you know, things that we can't even
imagine programming with no commercials, uh, really good news coverage, all kinds of amazing
programming, you know, like money, Python, and so much more than that.
Um, I don't know.
I don't know how they're able to, to, to stretch the money so far, but they, they really have
done incredible things with it.
I'm just surprised it still works today.
I mean, if this is like a very ancient system and it still applies today, you know, they're
still doing it now.
That's kind of the theme of England though, ancient systems that still somehow work today,
but Alex, let me let you speak on this.
Yeah.
I mean, it, I believe you still need to have a television license.
I'm not sure if it's still Ofcom that, you know, that, um, that requires the licenses or
if it's somebody else that's dealing with the licenses now.
But, um, even when you use the BBC iPlayer app these days, it asks before it allows you
to stream anything in, do you have a TV license?
Um, and if you answer no, you're not allowed to use the BBC app or the iPlayer.
You have to answer yes, you have a license here, but, um, I mean, I don't live in the UK,
so I don't have to have a license to, to use a television here.
But when I did live in the UK, I did have to pay a television license for the TV that I
had in my home and I, I paid it.
And, uh, how much was it about?
I don't remember.
It wasn't that much, but it wasn't, um, I remember it wasn't like extremely cheap either.
I think, I think it was something significant.
I think it was like significant enough for people to decide not to pay it.
I don't remember, but it was 10 years ago.
Like over a hundred bucks or?
I think so.
I think it must've been.
Yeah.
Or it was, I can't remember if it was amortized over.
Months or something like that.
But I mean, I can look it up and see, see what it is, but I don't recall off the top
of my head.
It was so long ago, but I remember paying it.
Um, and I think maybe it was the off-com vans that would drive around looking for the
RF from, from televisions.
I think that was it.
Maybe that was the regulator.
I think that had to deal with this, but it is a crazy system that, that these televisions
have to be registered and licensed.
Well, you know, it's a crazy system.
Go ahead.
I'm sure it would surprise a lot of Americans that such a thing exists.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
You know, the, the, the crazy part for me is having a system where all the money can
just be taken away from a public broadcaster.
Like we saw, you know, that can't happen over there.
At least I don't think it can happen over there.
Um, but who knows?
Uh, Gila, you have something.
Go ahead.
Um, the cost for a yearly standard license went up on April 1st to 180 pounds a year.
But if you want to save a little money, you can get a black and white license, a black
and white license.
You can do 58 50.
Wait, you're telling me that somehow, wait, do they just send you a black and white signal
or do you have to buy a black and white TV?
And how the hell do you do that?
Um, so this information was provided to me by Tim in Connecticut.
I will take a moment and look myself, but, um, I just thought that was interesting and
worth sharing.
I grew up with, I grew up in a black and white TV.
I did.
Yeah.
I believe I remember learning that the black and white license was, uh, basically for the
longest time, sort of an honor system thing where you just admitted that you had a color
television over a black and white one and paid a little more.
Um, but, um, I, I don't, I, I don't know how they go around verifying that these days because
TV, especially in the analog era, um, it's a, it's a passive appliance.
Like there's no way for the people broadcasting the content to know who exactly is receiving
it, um, and where they are and what they're doing with it.
It was, it was all kind of just, yeah.
What about people who don't have a TV?
They watch TV on their phones and computers.
What about that?
That's actually causing a lot of trouble these days with the license fee in general,
because a lot of people are thinking, well, yeah, I don't have what you would call a television
anymore.
Why should I pay a license fee?
The license fee, uh, is something that a lot of people in the UK, uh, there's always
talk about, like, should we abolish it?
Um, and the BBC is like, but we, how would we function?
Yeah.
So it's a, but wait, there's more.
Um, in 2006, the office for national statistics, thank you, Wikipedia changed the classification of
license fee from a service charge to a tax, because don't forget you BB UK TV is expanding.
So people aren't just getting the BBC.
They've got ITV channel four, channel five satellite cable, whatever.
This is, I guess, to help fund the infrastructure.
Um, what you're saying the commercial stations also get a piece of the fee.
Yeah.
Oh, that's interesting.
Um, and wait, there's more.
Um, so there's a 50% discount on your license fee if you are legally blind.
Cause.
So you're only getting the audio.
Exactly.
Um, okay.
So good Lord.
One of the contractors, um, it's called capita and they're going to earn between 1.10 and 1.55
billion pounds over the life of its contract, enforcing, um, and administering the license
fees.
Um, you get, this is an annual thing.
So it's like a license plate, but basically instead of for your car, it's for your TV.
Um, in June 29th.
I think 180 pounds a year is kind of a lot of money though.
I think for the average person, that's 30 pounds a month, 30, 40, isn't that like 20
pounds a month or something?
I think that's, that's a decent amount of money.
I think it's 15, 15, $15, 15 pounds a month.
Um, yeah, that's expensive.
It's like, Hey, they can walk into a hospital and not pay anything.
So, uh, it's a trade-off.
Yeah.
And a pound right now is about a dollar 35.
And there's a TV licensing savings card that you can like sock money away on.
And it'll automatically roll over from year to year.
Also, might I mention that I guess a TV licensing savings card is the equivalent of the FSA
here in the United States?
Wow.
Well, thank you for bringing that up.
That's a very interesting topic, obviously.
And we'd love to know more about it.
Oh, and before I go, I wondered on your show, did you say anything about the, uh, the shooting
at the White House?
Did you have anything to say about that?
Well, we didn't address it directly, but we, we certainly talked about the, um, the aftermath,
uh, because that's the true threat to democracy.
Um, but, uh, I mean, what would you like us to address as far as, uh, the incident itself?
Well, the fact that he wants to get Jimmy Kimmel canceled because of the jokes.
Yeah, no, we mentioned that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's, that's, uh, that just shows you how dangerous he is.
You know, that, that, uh, anything is going to be blamed that he feels is, is an enemy
of him, uh, and, and the fact that the FCC is moving so fast to, uh, take away licenses
of, of ABC.
Yes.
Yeah.
Anyway, I enjoyed the show.
Thanks for taking my call.
All right.
Thanks for calling.
Take care.
Um, pursuant to the previous conversation, um, obviously there was also a parallel discussion
going on in the chat, which I was looking at Wikipedia and not at the chat.
So I missed Stan, 1125, who said, I think this is in most of European countries.
It definitely exists in Poland and Iceland.
In Iceland, I'm paying around $200 per year.
Um, you can't opt out in Iceland, even if you don't have radio or TV, um, and someone
whose handle I'm not even going to attempt to pronounce.
Um, so you can apply for a TV license in the morning and cancel for a refund before
midnight, every day with automation, of course.
Well, Jay, so we might be the, the weird ones then maybe this is something that happens
in more places than we thought.
It is.
I think that not having a TV license is sort of like, uh, Fahrenheit temperatures.
Yeah.
But, uh, the, the other, the other aspect of this is we know the threat that, uh, non-commercial
broadcasting is under in this country.
We're seeing, you know, all the hits to PBS just in the last year, um, the Corporation
for Public Broadcasting is no more.
And, uh, you know, we have to fight tooth and nail to keep WBAI on the air.
Um, and, you know, other, other similar entities are having the same problem.
Um, and just thinking that if, if there were some fee that like everybody in the country
would pay as a small bit of a tax and that went to making sure the media landscape is not
just filled with commercial interests that want to squeeze money out of you, maybe that's
not such a bad idea.
Yeah.
This is, this is absolutely fascinating, um, in terms of, um, pieces that have been carved
out for people in care homes and, um, people who live in crown dependencies.
Um, the Isle of Man Department of Social Care was, you, they're free on the Isle of Man, um,
because the, a free television license scheme was funded by the Isle of Man Social Department
of Social Care.
Um.
Wait, so if you go to the Isle of Man, you don't have to pay a TV fee?
That, yes.
Good to know.
All right.
That does seem correct.
Elderly people in the Channel Islands.
Um, yeah, this is, this is absolutely fascinating.
Um, ooh, okay.
According to Section 363 of the Communications Act 2003, a television license must be obtained
for any device that is installed or used for receiving a television program at the
same time as it is received by members of the public.
Um, in 2016, the conditions under which a television license is required changed to include receiving
video on-demand program services on iPlayer.
Wow.
You don't have to have a television license for operating a digital box with a hi-fi system
or another device that can be used only to produce sounds.
I like that they call it a hi-fi system.
Um, to use it as a closed-circuit monitor, to only play DVDs or videos, but if you want
to record live TV, you need a license, to use television as a digital radio receiver, to
use a digital box to listen to radio through a TV, to use a television as a monitor for
a computer or games console.
Um, watching catch-up TV services when the program is not live, except when using BBC
iPlayer services to receive BBC channel catch-up programs.
Interesting.
A free license is required for non-exempt premises even when no fee is payable, e.g.
premises with residents over 75.
We're going to give, uh, two more minutes to get another phone call, and if not, we're
going to, uh, sign off for the night, 802-321-4225, two minutes.
Uh, Gila, I have an assignment for you, if I choose to take it.
Uh, can you tell me how things work in the Falkland Islands, which I understand Trump wants
to start a war there, too, to punish England.
He literally wants to punish England for not, not supporting him enough.
For cheap purposes.
Yeah.
Well, I just want to know, you know, do they get their own channel?
Do they get, uh, piggybacked onto BBC One?
Do they have to pay a licensing fee?
You know, things like that.
Uh, Falkland Islands Television, FITV, uh, was founded in 2010.
What?
Why did it take them so long to found a TV station?
I mean, well, I don't know.
Well, that's something that bothers me.
Um, okay, you can check them out at FITV.co.do you know the TLD for the Falkland Islands?
It's probably .uk.
No, it's .fk, my friend.
Okay, wow.
This, you can have some fun with that one, I think.
Um, they made a documentary for the 40th anniversary of the Falklands War.
Wow.
But yeah, he literally wants to punish England for, for not, you know, joining in the war
against Iran and, uh, saying, you know what, we're going to take Argentina's side.
And I don't think anybody's in the mood for this.
I don't think anybody on any side wants to, you know, have that war again.
But this is how he operates.
Um.
Oh, the, the, the chat, the chat's getting fun.
Um.
Okay.
You realize no one listening or, uh, listening to the archives has any idea what's being said
in the chat.
I don't either.
Cause I don't look at the chat.
Okay.
So a couple of our very astute listeners, shout out to Lex and to Tim.
Um, noticed that I dropped a quote from Susie Eddie Izzard's seminal special, Dressed to
Kill.
Again, I, I don't have any of the references.
Wow.
It's, it's like I'm on a different planet.
Um, Dressed to Kill came out 26 years ago, I want to say.
I remember, yeah, I remember watching it on my 20th birthday.
And it's so funny, so good.
I have the whole thing memorized and there's a whole part where she's talking about Britain
and empire and collecting countries.
And then the rest of the world said, Britain, what's that behind your back?
Oh, it's India and another, a number of other countries.
Go on, give them back.
All right.
Falkland Islands.
We need the Falkland Islands for strategic sheet purposes.
Yes.
Anyway, the work of Eddie Izzard is, uh, is excellent.
Uh, phone lines are now closed.
Okay.
I, I will say, um, this week, in addition to the 2600 meetings on Friday, um, those of
us in the New York area, if you're interested, might want to go to the Museum of the Moving
Image in Astoria, Queens and check out a screening of the documentary about Joy Bubbles, uh, much
missed member of the freak community.
Um, they'll, that screening is happening at the music, music, uh, this, uh, the PH
community.
Yes.
The PH freak community.
Um, go to, go to moving image.org and, uh, look up Saturday, the second on their calendar
to find your way to this screening and get tickets.
It's in one of their smaller screening rooms.
So you might want to get your tickets sooner than later.
I know I'm going, I have a couple other friends, uh, from the local area who are going and
it would be, it would be cool to see folks there.
Will you renew our membership while you're there, please?
I, I, yes.
Yes, I will.
Thank you.
But, um, also the, uh, this, this documentary has been in the works for a very long time.
It was crowdfunded back in 2014.
Um, and it is finally a finished product and making the rounds of independent screenings
and festivals and things.
So this is a chance to check it out.
It's not at, it's not at every theater.
So.
And it's screening at the museum as part of the Real Abilities Film Festival.
Did you mention this?
Yes.
Because I mentioned this and I wasn't listening.
I did not mention that yet, but, uh, it's Real Abilities Film Festival, R-E-E-L Abilities,
which is a film festival focusing on people with disabilities.
Um, so as part of that screening, it's going to have open captions, open audio description.
Um, we saw a movie in the Real Abilities Film Festival last year.
Yes.
Yes.
That, uh, that a friend of mine, uh, had, had directed.
That a friend of ours had directed.
And, um, it was about a young woman with synesthesia and how that.
Um, it, very cool.
Yeah.
Um, good stuff to be had out there.
Yes.
E, we have a question for you from the chat.
Uh, if we still have another moment.
Has Emmanuel been to any remote countries like Falkland Islands or Pitcairn Islands?
Well, um, I, I wouldn't just limit it to islands as being remote.
I've been to Albania.
I've been to North Korea.
I've been to Cuba.
You know, they're not maybe remote for the people who live there or are near there, but
they're different.
Um, as far as, I mean, um, okay, you, you want remote island, St. Pierre off the coast
of Canada, which is part of France.
That's, that's kind of remote.
You know, you gotta, you gotta drive a lot to get there and then you have to take a boat.
So, and then you're in Europe, you know, without flying.
Listener, I hope that answers your question.
Been to Mongolia.
That's kind of remote.
We just ordered a new window fan.
It came with a remote.
That is true.
Wait, how does that even rely?
Okay.
Remote.
It's, it's a remote country.
I get it.
All right.
That's funny.
It was a con.
I'm a conchi right now, Emmanuel.
Yeah.
Well, um, we are, we are done.
I just want to remind people, uh, 2600 meetings this Friday, look at 2600.com slash meetings
to see, uh, where one is close to you and how you might start one.
If there isn't one close to you, uh, tomorrow is the last day for early submissions for, uh,
both talks and workshops at the hope conference coming up August 14th through 16th, um, go to
hope.net for all the information on how you can submit your talk idea.
Uh, we'll still be accepting talk ideas and workshop ideas after April 30th, but the ones
that get submitted by April 30th are priority.
We, we give them first crack.
Uh, so again, hope.net is where you can find all that information.
Also tomorrow is the last day for your ticket purchase to benefit the Electronic Frontier
Foundation.
10% of every ticket sale goes to the EFF.
So, uh, uh, if you buy your ticket by midnight tomorrow, you'll be able to help the EFF as well.
Excellent.
That's all.
All right.
Well, good night, everybody.
Alex, you said you were going to leave early and you're still here.
I did.
I'm looking at me.
I know it's 204 AM here.
I'm ready for bed.
Wow.
Yes.
Well, let us sign off.
We can have a few words with you, uh, privately, but, uh, any final words from anybody else
to our, to our listeners?
Uh, once again, uh, if you're interested in any of the, uh, activism,
type events and happenings going on, on the 1st of May, go to maydaystrong.org and find
one near you.
Shut it down.
Not the website.
Shut down.
Well, figure out what you want to shut down.
Shut that down.
Gracefully.
Yeah.
All right.
Uh, we will see you next week.
Oh, uh, there won't be an overtime next week because we're doing the, the call in show
on the radio station.
So, uh, yeah, that'll be fun.
So we'll see you here in two weeks.
We'll be right back.