This is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers
I see in binary, I speak source code
Step on my toes, I'll post a million JPEGs of you in a fag pose
In your digital stance, getting firewalled ho
Cause I'm riding the net in my six-fold
I was a dick with my 56
Now with my cable, I'm able to get that stable
On the out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo
On the digital highway, my name is Neo and I'm a hero
In a flash, I'll screw you on burning dreamcats
You need some ISOs? Let me do my hard drive rifle
Our exchange you could never stifle
In a digital hug, you just caught the love bug
I bootlegged your CD, I caused a fight between Un and Jay-Z
Cause CG, it's all gonna be free
Whether we take it by force or we take it nicely
You feel that rattle in your bones when I tell you we just hacked out Jones
And NASDAQ, leave your pride on your back
Cause I am he who loves to hack and crack
This is dedicated to the hackers and the creepers
Cereal codes, source codes, ISO, RAM, SIP, SIS
This is dedicated to the hackers and the crack
Alright everybody, welcome to the first episode of Binary Revolution Radio
I am your host Stank Dog with my co-host
Mr. Mute
In the house
Now, I know a lot of you may recognize our voice
You may have been listening to another show that we've been co-hosting with Dual Parallel
Known as Radio Freak America, RFA
Mute and I have been co-hosting that with Dual Parallel for, I don't know, how long now?
Oh, close, not a year, maybe a year, maybe me a year
Yeah, it's been quite a while, been really fun doing it
And we still do it on occasion
Actually quite frequently if we can
Because it's still a great show and we enjoy doing it a lot
But there's so many other good co-hosts
And a lot of other people with a lot of other views
And different things that they bring to the table to talk about
So, we kind of thought maybe it would be good for us to branch out and make an all-hacking show
So, here we are
And we're going to bring to you hacking news, hacking information, a few rants
A few details that I think there's probably enough material to do a weekly hacking show, don't you think?
Oh, there's 20
You know, speaking of which, why don't we dive right in
As a matter of fact, you have been on a little couple-week adventure yourself, haven't you not?
I have been in an exploration of the multiple types of engineering at a camp in Notre Dame entitled Introduction to Engineering
And I thought it was extremely interesting and I don't know how to put it
I thought it was just one of the best camps I've ever gone to in my life
Well, how many camps have you gone to in your life?
Quite a few
I've never been to camp one day in my entire life
Amazing
Of course, I lived on a 32-acre farm, there was no need to go to a camp
There wasn't camp
It was constant camp
So, what was going on at this engineering camp?
Basically, every day there were some speakers that would come and they would talk about their fields of engineering
You know, I was always there for those computer science ones
Well, the computer science one had more mocked people than anything, but that's a moot point
They had electrical engineering, which I'm planning to go into
They had a computer science, not computer science, a computer security one
That was interesting
And then also we had competitions, we had to build a robot under Lego Mindstorms
But not using Lego Mindstorms, proprietary software used a version called Not Quite C
As in C, the programming language
And we also had to build bridges out of Kinex
That was fun
And at the end, chiefly the proudest moment of camp was the presentation
Your presentation
So, was this, it sounds like some kind of ghetto-ass battle bots, is that what you were
The robots, no
The robots, basically they had to interact with their environment somehow
Ours did not fall off the table and moved ping pong walls off tables
Without falling off
Without falling off, exactly
And how many people succeeded at that at the camp?
Not many
Really?
I mean, we all have different topics
We all pick what we want to do
And we, like, there's different things
Like, some people had a robot move across some tiles
And know what tile it was on
And then move the bot, move something
It picked it up, move it back
Or something that never gets stuck in a corner
Or, I mean, there's all types of things
So, they run the gamut
Something last court, last session
The teacher said
That a robot that picked up ping pong balls
And actually shot him into a hoop
I mean, there's some skilled people out there
So this was a lot
This was a general engineering camp
And it talked about a lot of different forms
But, especially, you had a lot of fun with the presentation you gave him
Basically, the second week
He gave us a sheet
The sheet said
You must present something using a PowerPoint
Screw a PowerPoint presentation
On one of these seven topics
Or eight topics
One of them was computer security
And I said, well
It says about, like, please talk about computer security
And privacy issues
And I'm like
This is going to be boring
So basically, I'm like
Well, wait a minute
Let's hack our own computer
Let's show the people what it's really about
So I tell the camp
The camp director
And he says, that's fine
He said that's fine?
He said that was fine
Wow, right off the bat
No arguing, no
No massaging
No nothing
He was just like
He's like, do it
Basically, I mean
He said, hey, come on
We can do this
It'll be good
He's like, fine
He's like, that's cool with me
So we went about
I had just as luck would have it
An old ghetto machine
And we installed Red Hat 73 on it
Found the send mail local exploit
Came up with the scenario
We ran it in class
Successfully rooted the box
And defaced the website
Mind I add, the first
No, well, second time
I've defaced the website
My entire life
Well, it was your own or?
It was my own box
Yeah, you defaced the website
On your own box
Yeah
Right
But we kind of pulled
A fast one on people
Because the original website
That we put up
Was a copy of the
Notre Dame
Information Technologies website
So the students
Were probably
Did you let in the
Instructor that it was a copy
Or did he think
That you were
Some kids
They were like
What would you do?
The instructor knew
Oh, okay
So the instructor
Wasn't shitting bricks
But the students
There were people
That were shitting their pants
Yeah
I mean
Some
I mean
Everyone pretty much
Understood what was going on
Right
But it was kind of funny
To see these people
Kind of squirm for a second
Right, right
Now, wasn't there
Didn't you have
Some interesting conversations
Too with the
Computer security director
There or something
Like that?
Well, the first
The guy
His name is Kurt Freeland
He's actually written a book
The Complete
System Administrator
I believe
And I haven't read it yet
I hear it's a great book
And it's actually been
Recommended by a lot of
High level Unix guys
As being a better book
Than some of the
Other books out there
And he came off
As kind of
Kind of mean
Or not mean
Or
Kind of second
Kind of sending
To hackers
And not really saying
What it's all about
When I
After I talked to him
When I was just
Talking to him
In general
And he's a really nice guy
And he's really
Trying to push
He's actually trying to push
Notre Dame
To have a
Bachelor's in Science
In System Administration
Which would be
A great degree
To have
They don't
They don't have
Any bachelor's
In science
Do they have
Any computer degrees
That are in science
They have computer science
I mean
They have all that stuff
But they don't have
I mean
A new one
That's coming about
In just the
College in general
Is a
System Administration degree
Ah I see
And recently
I forgot he said
What college
But there was
Two PhDs
Awarded
For System Administration
So he's using
That as a
Stepping stone
To push for
Something in Notre Dame
Now do you know
If the PhDs though
Are coming from
The College of Engineering
Science and Engineering
Or are they coming
Like a lot of times
I see that it's offered
Through the College of Business
I don't know
But I know that
There's been
There have been
At least two
That have come through
Through a different school
Interesting
But he's a nice guy
He actually
They actually play
Capture the Flag
In their
Assistant Administration class
Well that sounds
Like a fun class
The kids set up
Their boxes
They learn
How to secure
They learn
The insecurities
And he gives them
Some time
And they put out
They go out
Each other's boxes
I see a lot of people
Do that on the net
For free
But you can get
College credit for it
If you go to
Something like college credit
And hacking
Someone on those boxes
Yeah hey
That's a dream come true
Isn't it
Yes it is
And then maybe
You can get a job
In the real world
Getting paid for hacking
Man it doesn't get
Much better than that
So you are back home now
I am safe and sound
Adventure over
No arrests
That we are aware of
No outstanding warrants
No convictions
I am a free man
Alright
Oh well
I wish I had a good story
To start off with
What happened to me
This week
But
This past week
Myself
I was out
Searching on the net
Trying to find
Some other internet
Radio shows
Doing a little research
Doing a little listening
To see what else
Is out there
See if there is
Any good information
See if there is
Any other places
That might host radio
Etc
And I stumbled across
This internet radio show
It is a radio show
Called Web Talk Radio
And it is located
At
www.webtalkguys
W-E-B-T-A-L-K-G-U-Y-S
.com
Which ironically
Is hosted by
Rob and Dana Greenlee
Which is not a guy
But hey
Whatever works for them
And I
You know
I scanned through
Some of their
Episode summaries
Like we have
The episode summaries
Up at RFA
And on binrev.com
Soon
And I saw
They had an episode
That was about
The HoneyNet project
And it was
An interview
With
Lance Spitzner
Who is one of the
People that works
On the HoneyNet project
He is also
Sun Microsystems
Senior Security Architect
Was on the 5-24-2003 episode
So it is
Very recent
And
I don't really know
A good word
To describe it
But
I don't know
If I should say
Insulting
I think
Disturbing
Is probably a better word
To describe it
But
I listened to the show
And there is just a clip here
And you can go
To the address
I mentioned earlier
And listen to the whole thing
If you think
That I possibly
Took this out of context
For I did not
But I am going to play
This clip for you
Which I have permission
To do
And I want to see
What you all think about it
So
Listen up for just a second
We are going to go
To a clip from
Interview with
Lance Spitzner
From Rob and Dana Greenlee
On Web Talk Radio
Why are they doing this
So
I mean
Don't these people have jobs
Don't they have lives themselves
Or do they just sit around
Well it is very interesting
And it is one of the things
We have learned
Because of these HoneyNets
We see what these guys do afterwards
So we can monitor the motives
There is a misconception
That people think
That a lot of these attackers
Are misguided youths
Out exploring the internet
Yeah
The reality is
That the vast majority
Of these individuals
Are criminal intent
In other words
They are out to make money
We see a lot of times
People hacking into systems
And scanning for stolen credit cards
Or they are launching attacks
Against other organizations
And potentially getting paid for it
Or they are dealing
In stolen music
Videos
Licensed software
Such things called
Whereas
People scanning
Or scouring the internet
For email addresses
To build databases
Of stolen email addresses
To sell to spammers
Stolen PayPal accounts
Stolen eBay accounts
There is just a tremendous amount
Of criminal activity going on
Okay
So it is really
A malicious type
Of an environment
Extremely hostile
All right
Mute
What did you think
Of that big tool
That was total bullshit
Is it
Do you think it's true
That all hackers
Are malicious
Or the majority
As he puts it
Hey you know
I mean I just love
To just do whereas
And I mean
I just love to steal
Credit card numbers
It's like a pastime
For me
Like correcting
Baseball cards
What the fuck
Is a
Juarez
I hate
This guy can't even
Pronounce the term
I mean
It's
Juarez
What's so hard
About Juarez
I hate it when people
Say Juarez
Juarez
It just shows
That the guy
Doesn't know
What the hell
He's talking about
First of all
Second of all
What does that
Necessarily have to do
With hacking
You know
I don't get
The connection there
Am I missing something
I just think
You're missing the point
That he's just
A stupid ass
Yeah but this is
The senior security
Architect for
Sun Microsystems
I mean
He can't be a
Total tool
Yeah you never know
Hmm
Well you know
It's just
You know I said
I don't know if I should
Say insulting or
Disturbing
To describe that
But I mean
Where does he get off
Making a claim
Like that
I mean he's basing
This on his findings
From the Honeynet
Project I guess
I mean does that
Really
That's not a good
Record of anything
I mean I can
I don't know
I can give him
The benefit of the doubt
That you know
Based on the Honeynet
Project he may see
A higher percentage
Trying to do that stuff
But that's
That's not fair
That's just
Judging the entire
Population of hackers
Of the people
He actually sees
On the Honeynets
You know what
That's also maybe
The stupider end
Yeah well
Yeah the ones
That may be a bunch
Of script kitties
That are out there
Trying to apply stuff
That they've read somewhere
It may be
I know I just
Probably defamed myself
By saying stupider
But it's true
Because a lot of
The guys
Are just going to
Go after
Oh look
There's an open
Computer
Let's not really
Bother what's going
On
Those are the people
That are going to
Be looking for credit
Cards
Not the higher up
People
They're just going
For a machine
Well plus
Look at the potential
Audience
You have to
There's
He's got a bias
In this
I assume
Again I'm assuming
His audience
Or his
Pool of information
He's drawing from
Is the results
From the Honeynet project
Well that's biased
Against people
That's only including
People who are
Actually looking
To get into
And attack a computer
I mean he set
Up these targets
And wants people
You know he's
Luring people in
Well the type of
People you lure in
Is not necessarily
Reflective of the
Entire population
And the entire community
Guess what
I didn't go into
This fucking
Honeynet project
Or honeypot
So how does
Where's my variable
Come in
I should
I would lower that
So it won't look like
You know that
All of us are malicious
Trying to steal credit card numbers
I didn't do it
Does his opinion
Reflect the fact that
Me and you
And all the other
Hackers in the world
Who don't do anything malicious
Does his statistic
Or his concept
That he has
Account for us
Nope
He's only looking
At that limited
Thing that he
Has in there
That's like
I don't know
A prisoner
You know
Some prison guard
Saying that
Oh all of our crimes
Are committed
By this type of person
Well yeah
You just happen to have
Three of them in jail
But what about
The three million of them
That are out there
Earning a living
You know
How are you just
Going to judge it
On the three
That you captured
I mean it doesn't
Even matter
What
I mean
But that's
That's a good
Comparison
You're judging
On the ones
That you caught
And the ones
That you found
Not on the total
Population
You have
Population innate
You have bias
In your population
I should say
And that's just
You know
I would have
Expected more
From a senior
Security person
I mean that's just
I don't know
If it's because
He wants to be
On a radio show
And wants to be
Kind of get some
Kind of fame
Or something like that
But well
I guess you
You know
That I of course
Have to give him
The fuck nut of the month
Award for that
Right
You saw that coming
I mean come on
This guy doesn't even
He's sure
I really think
And this of course
Is my opinion
I really think he knew
He knew better
I think he just said it
Because that's what
People want to hear
Stories about
All the evil hackers
And they want to steal
Credit card numbers
And Juarez
Which are completely
Unrelated
But I think he just
Wanted to say
He said what he thinks
They wanted to hear
That's the only thing
I can think of
If that's not
You know
If that's not the case
If he truly believes this
Then he's beyond
Fuck nut
You know
He's just
I don't know
I think he's just
A bit of a sell out
And he wants to get
Some kind of fame
And wants to be able
To publish papers
And make money
As a
Oh he knows all about hackers
He was on radio show
And he wrote books
And he wrote
You know
He's co-authored books
He's co-authored
A lot of research papers
All of them
Along the same vein
So
You know
He's one of those people
That's making fame
By defaming
The world of hackers
Fuck
Yeah
Well
So that was my week
I've pretty much been pissed
Ever since I heard that clip
And
I had to share it
With everybody listening
And
This stinks
Group therapy
Yeah
I mean
It just
I've gotten better
That I don't like
Start yelling
And get all pissed off
About it
I mean
I just heard it
And it's
Instead of getting mad
It's kind of like
My jaw dropped
It's like
What in the hell
Is this guy thinking
In
In his process
Of trying to make
A name for himself
And you know
Be this big authority
Oh I've been on radio
And I've published this
All he did
To me
Of course
And I think
To a lot of other
Intelligent people
Out there
Is he just made
An ass of himself
He just proved
That in actuality
He doesn't
Know what he's talking about
He doesn't know
How to research this
And he doesn't
Know anything about
How the mind
Of a hacker works
He just
He doesn't
Understand it
And he doesn't get it
And he's making presumptions
And you know
We need less of that
That's what hurts
The name of hackers
That's what hurts
The community
Is stuff like that
The problem with
The people that get famous
Like this
Honeypot guy
He's famous
Because he does this
And pretty soon
You get pushed
To a certain direction
And if you don't
Follow that
If you don't follow
What the people want
No one's going to
Pay attention to you
Yeah
He's getting his fame
By defaming us
You know
And that's
That's a shame
Well
Let's go
From the fuck nut
Of the month
Let's go from
That type of journalism
To
What I consider
Journalism
Journalists
With some integrity
How about that
This is an article
That I read recently
That actually
Was from the opposite
And made me feel better
About people
And reporters
That there are some people
Who know what they're
Talking about out there
This was
A report
That
And I'll read a bit of it
Here
It's very short
It says
U.S. law enforcement officers
Arrested 50 suspects
In an effort to combat
The fastest growing
Online crime
That now accounts
For more than half
Of all fraud complaints
It's a variety of crimes
I'm going to paraphrase
Some of this
From setting up
Fake banking websites
To collect account numbers
Of unsuspecting customers
To
Oh I love
This is a great word
Surreptitiously
Did I say that good?
Surreptitiously
Did I say that well
I should say?
Yeah
We're not
We're not trying to win
Any grammar awards
On this show
Are we?
Hey
Surreptitiously
Taping and selling
Unreleased movies
Juarez
Maybe he was
Combining with
Lance Spitzner
Up there
Many of the cases
Involved advertising
Goods or services
That did not exist
Defendants
Allegedly sold computers
Video game consoles
Beanie babies
And other items
Through email
Or online options
But never delivered them
While others
Allegedly sold
Counterfeit software
And watches
So looking back at this
50 suspects
Online crime
The arrested
Collecting
Unsuspecting
Let's see
Defendants
Every term
Used in here
Was
Properly used
No point
In this whole thing
I mean
Reading through this
This is the typical story
Where you see
The word hacker
Thrown three or four times
It could have very easily said
Law enforcement officers
Arrest 50 computer hackers
In an effort to combat
The fastest growing online
Blah blah blah
That's the way
People like
Well
Maybe Lance Spitzner
I don't know
And a lot of other people
Would report that
They throw that word
Computer hacker in there
And that scares people
Oh hacker is online crime
They tie all that together
Hackers are stealing
Your credit card
And delivering fake merchandise
Well this one
Did not use
The word hacker
So sometimes
It's not what is said
It's not what is
In the article
It's what is not
Said
So you know
I went from one extreme
To another
And you know
I do that a lot
A lot of people post
Where they get upset
That the word hacker
Is defamed
Or the hacking community
Gets such a bad rep
And people are posting
These articles
About how everybody
Says evil hackers
And I even opened
The show
With my story
Of what happened
This week
And I turn around
And I find
A good report
And I want to make sure
That I put this
On the radio
The author of this
Article was Andy Sullivan
And I want to give credit
That there are good people
Out there
Who are reporting
Fairly
Unbiased
And not sensationalized
Journalism
They're out there
Telling the truth
Reporting it fairly
And you know
That's the kind of people
That we need more of
I'm working hopefully
With digital rights
The digital rights
Foundation
Digitalrights.org
I'd like to put together
A list of writers
A list of politicians
A list of general media
General information
On people who do
And are honest
About the news
And honest about
Their stances on things
And make a list
Of people that we can
And should support
As opposed to
And a list
Possibly of people
That are
Fucknuts
I need a page
Dedicated to the
Fucknut of the month
Maybe somebody
Should write that up
For us
And we could go
Through that every month
But I'd like to have
A list of all these
People like Andy Sullivan
Who go out there
And report the news
The way it is
Without causing harm
Or cost to the
Reputation of someone else
So you know
This guy gets that
Hackers are not thieves
And vice versa
So I think that's
A pretty good thing
How about you?
Hey
I would support
That completely
We need a
What do you call it?
A new party
A pro-honesty
Or a pro-information party
You know they say
The pro, the cons
We need senators
We need those people
That are going to
Listen to us
First of all
Because almost no one does
They're the evil
They're the bad bunch
Of the picking
We can't talk to them
No
The people that will
Or listen to us
Understand that
We're just normal people
That have our own problems
Yeah and we're
You know we're a
Relatively small group
We're a special interest group
The only way a special interest group
Can get anything done
In the United States government
Is to go lobby
And slip some money in
And you know
Have those laws passed
The wrong way
And you know
We're not
We don't have
A loud enough voice
We don't have
A loud enough
Platform
To get issues changed
Unfortunately
And without going into
Some detail
I do know
Of a movement
Hopefully that's
Still underway
That will be started
Soon to change that
But the reality is
You know we
We carry a very small voice
And until we
You know
Again and it's because
We have that negative
Connotation of what
A hacker is
So we have to
Overcome that
And until we do
I mean we
What if we
Let's say
Just for
To be silly
Let's say we made
The hacker party
Well people
Not knowing anything
About what the party
Stands for
Or our platforms
What do you
Automatically
You know what
They're going to assume
When they hear
The hacker party
They're never
Ever going to support
Something called
The hacker party
You know
So you know
And the other thing
Is parties
Parties to me
Really don't mean
A whole lot
I hate
The fact that
We have a
Two party system
I think it's
Sickening
That people
Get into this
Mindset where
They have to
Vote along
Party lines
Now I
Understand that
There are some
Differences in the
Parties and that
You may align with
One or the other
In general
But I still
Make a distinction
Between individuals
It's not necessarily
A party issue
It's an individual
Issue and I'm
Going to vote
For those
Individuals
Who I best
Agree with
And I think
Best represent
What this country
Is and should be
And mostly should be
Because what it is
Is going downhill
So you know
People that vote
Along party lines
To me is
Kind of a sign
Of being a sheep
You know
Oh well
I'm a democrat
I have to vote
For all democrats
I'm a republican
I have to vote
For all republicans
I'm a hacker
I have to vote
For the hacker party
Even that's not
You know
Necessarily a good
Thing
It's good that
We would offer
An option
But yeah
I think that's
A little bit
You know
Let's see
Now we're
Going off
Into the
Politics
Which is
Something we
Try not to
Do too much
Here but
You know
It applies
To this
Because politics
Drives public
Opinion
And the public
Opinion on hackers
Is exactly what
We open the show
With and we've
Got to overcome
That somehow
And unfortunately
The political
Battlefield
May just be
The place
To do it
It's just
How do you
Get started
With something
Like that
You know
Well
Speaking of
Let's segue
Away from that
Before we get
Too much
On a political
Tangent
Let's go to
An article
Called
Hacking
Into the
Mind
Of a
Hacker
From the
Department of
Redundancy
Department
The matrix
Was in a
Matrix
Yeah
You know
This was
This is
Probably not
The best
Source
But
This came
From
I stumbled
Across this
On Microsoft
Small Business
Central
Their small
Technology
Small business
Area
But I found
It
Yeah I found
It a very
Interesting article
Actually
And
I won't say
Bad or good
But interesting
Nonetheless
Author is
Monty
And
I probably
Screw this
Up
Nbysk
E-N-B-Y-S-K
Nbysk
Something like
That
And it's
Hacking
Into the
Mind
Of a
Hacker
Ooh
That sounds
You know
That just
Sounds ominous
That sounds
That pulled
Me in
The title
Pulls me
In to see
What he's
Going to
Talk about
But he
Actually has
A very
Valid
Point
In the
Very
First
Line
Of this
Thing
It says
The first
Thing to
Know
About
Computer
Hackers
Is that
The term
Itself
Is a
Point
Of
Dispute
Oh
No
Dude
We just
Went
Through
You know
Just a
Couple
Articles
Get
Published
Yeah
Exactly
On that
Topic
Of
What is
A
Hacker
What isn't
A
Hacker
What's
Juarez
And
Cracker
And all
These
Different
Terms
That people
Throw
Around
Black
Hat
White
Hat
Blah
Well
It's
Because
You know
The word
Hacker
Was taken
Away
From us
By the
Media
And some
People
Take the
Approach
Of
Let's
Make up
A new
Term
Or
Let's
Make up
A new
Name
Or
New
Titled
And
Disassociate
Ourself
From
The word
Hacker
Which
Has
Become
Negative
And
Then
I
On the
Opposite
Hand
I
Think
We
Should
Take
The word
Hacker
Back
I'm
Not
A
Cracker
I don't
Want to
Be called
A
Cracker
Ass
Cracker
That sounds
Like
Some
Chris
Rock
Cracker
Ass
Cracker
I don't
Want to
Be
That
I want
The word
Hacker
I want
To clear
My name
So to
Speak
So
Yeah
The term
Hackers
Is
This
Point
Of
Dispute
Inside
The
Community
He
Mentioned
In
This
Article
That
Let's
See
Many
People
Who
Hack
Into
Systems
Without
Criminal
Intent
Without
Mr.
Spitzner
You
Heard
The word
Without
Criminal
Intent
Proudly
Label
Themselves
Hackers
And
I
Do
I
Proudly
Label
Myself
Hacker
They
Say
They
Are
Good
And
They
Say
That
There
Are
Good
Guys
And
Bad
Guys
Should
Be
Called
Crackers
Or
Something
Else
Now
He
Had
An
Email
Sent
To
Him
After
One
Of
His
Recent
Columns
He
Wrote
He
Also
Wrote
An
Article
About
Virus
Writers
Which
I
Am
Not
Going
To
On
This
One
But
It
Was
Also
Interesting
He
Got
An
Email
From
Somebody
After
That
Article
That
Says
Hackers
Are
Not
Evil
Malicious
People
Out
To
Damage
Computer
Systems
And
Steal
Passwords
Hackers
Hate
These
Kind
Of
People
Well
I
Agree
With
That
Statement
100%
Mute
What
Do
You
Think
Of
That
100%
For
Me
Man
That
Yeah
It's
Absolutely
Whoever
Wrote
That
Email
In
Thank
You
He
Didn't
Mention
The
Name
Of
Who
The
Email
Come
From
But
If
Somebody
Listening
Sent
That
If
You
Know
I
Wish
I
Could
Give
Them
Credit
And
Say
Thanks
For
Standing
Up
Anytime
You
Read
An
Article
Or
Hear
About
Negative
That
That's
What
We
Really
Need
To
Do
We
Really
Need
To
Get
Off
Our
Dead
Asses
And
Write
In
An
Email
You
Know
It
Actually
Got
To
This
Person
He
Read
It
And
Included
It
And
Did
A
Follow
Up
Analysis
On
And
Wrote
This
Article
About
What
Is
A
Hacker
Because
He
Got
Feedback
Somebody
Mind
Was
Changed
This
Person
At
Least
It
Was
Opened
If
It
Wasn't
Changed
He
At
Least
Opened
His
Mind
To
The
Possibility
And
Did
Some
Analysis
On
It
So
Whoever
Wrote
That
Email
Thank
You
Very
Much
That's
The
Kind
Of
Action
We
Need
Anybody
Listening
Let
That
Motivate
You
If
You
See
Something
Out
There
Report
On
It
Write
An
Email
To
Them
Touch
Base
With
Them
You
Hear
A
Clip
Like
I
Played
Earlier
Get
The
Word
Out
There
Let
People
Hear
And
Bad
Guys
People
Who
Explore
And
Test
Systems
For
A
Living
Or
Hobby
As
Well
As
Those
Who
Break
Into
Systems
To
Embarrass
Or
Rip
Off
Companies
And
People
Another
Reader
Had
Written
Into
Him
Had
Written
Or
Wrote
Grammar
Ain't
Being
My
Strong
Point
Just
Like
In
The
Wizard
Of
Oz
There
Can
Be
Good
Witches
And
Bad
Witches
In
The
World
Of
Hacking
It
Goes
The
Same
Way
Well
That's
I'm not
Sure
What
To
Think
About
That
Statement
How
About
You
Is
There
A
Good
Witch
And
A
Bad
Witch
The
Good
Hackers
And
Bad
Hackers
There
Should
Be
Good
And
Just
Good
And
Give
The
Bad
One
A
Different
Name
Like
Cracker
Do
You
Support
The
Separate
No
Because
That
Is
More
Of
The
Same
We
Need
An
Er
We
Need
A
Wild
Card
Er
To
Label
Yeah
Well
That's
The
Most
Simple
Thing
I
Mean
Somebody
Who
Breaks
In
And
Steals
Credit
Cards
That's
A
Criminal
That's
A
Thief
There's
Already
A
Word
For
That
Why
Do
We
Need
To
Make
Up
One
You
Know
You
Know
I
Guess
What
They're
Alluding
To
Here
Is
The
Good
Witch
And
Bad
Witch
There's
Witches
But
You
Can
Further
Define
The
Good
Witch
And
Bad
Witch
I
Guess
You
Know
That
Makes
Me
Think
Of
When
You
Define
Hackers
As
A
White
Hat
Hacker
Or
A
Black
Hat
Hacker
You
Know
You
Got
The
Good
Guy
Hacker
And
The
Bad
Guy
Hacker
Like
You
Have
The
Good
Witch
And
Bad
Witch
That's
Kind
Of
An
Interesting
Metaphor
Actually
I
Probably
Fall
Very
Much
More
In
The
Gray
Hat
Area
And
Some
Of
That
Is
Of
Course
Because
You
Have
No
Choice
To
But
To
Be
Gray
Hat
Because
The
Laws
And
The
Things
That
This
Country
Have
Done
Make
Everything
Illegal
Anymore
You
Know
Being
Curious
And
Interesting
And
Researching
Has
Now
Become
An
Illegal
Activity
In
The
United
States
Of
America
That's
Sad
So
Being
White
Hat
Is
You
Can't
Polish
A
Turd
How
About
That
Statement
Exactly
I'll
Contrify
You
Can't
Start
Fragmenting
And
Say
Some
Hackers
Are
Good
Some
Hackers
Are
Bad
Maybe
A
New
Term
Any
Listeners
Have
Any
Ideas
Or
Something
Like
That
Please
Email
Us
Letters
At
Ben
Rev
Dot
Com
And
Give
Us
Your
Suggestions
I
Like
To
Hear
Do
You
Have
A
Certain
Name
Do
You
Think
We
Should
Go
With
A
New
Name
Should
We
Stay
With
The
Black
Hat
White
Hat
Should
We
Go
You
Know
We
Have
The
Term
Hacks
Or
Which
Is
Kind
Of
A
More
Of
A
Negative
Derogatory
Term
Like
A
You
Know
Synonymous
With
Script
Kitty
I
Guess
You
Say
I
Don't
Know
I
Like
To
I'd
Like
To
Hear
What
People
Have
To
Say
So
Write
In
And
Tell
Both
Good
And
Bad
Share
A
Common
Bond
And
Form
A
Highly
Caffeinated
Community
Where
The
Lines
Get
Blurred
I
Like
The
word
Caffeinated
I
As
Much
As
Duel
Tries
He
Can't
Help
But
Be
Caffeinated
He
Tries
To
Drink
The
Water
And
The
Uncaffeinated
Stuff
But
Yeah
Caffeinated
Is
A
Good
Choice
And
I
Just
Mention
Yeah
The
Lines
Are
Blurry
We
Are
Hackers
And
We're
Sitting
Here
You
Know
Debating
What
Should
We
Call
Ourselves
Or
Should
We
Change
Anything
So
Of
Course
The
Lines
Are
Great
We
Can't
Even
We
Can't
Even
Discuss
It
Or
Define
It
Ourself
Well
Actually
You
Know
What
Is
A
Hacker
A
Mute
Let
Me
Just
Ask
You
A
Plain
Flat
Out
Straight
Forward
Question
Not
A
Not
A
Whole
Thesis
Not
A
Whole
Report
A
Simple
Question
One
Person
To
Another
What
Is
A
Hacker
Someone
Who
Figures
Out
Clever
Ways
Around
Things
Or
Ideas
Or
Problems
Does
It
Have
To
Be
Computer
Problems
No
So
Is
There
Such
Thing
As
A
Maybe
Label
Somebody
A
Computer
Hacker
Is
Different
Than
Just
A
General
Hacker
Yes
So
You
Can
Be
A
Hacker
In
Real
Life
Like
I
Don't
Know
You
Know
Any
A
Mechanic
Yeah
Goes
Into
His
Car
Just
To
Get
That
Extra
I
Think
James
Shibley
Or
Whoever
Gave
The
Same
An
Analogy
That
Gets
Out
That
Extra
10
Or
20
Horses
Out
Of
His
Car
Because
He
Ripped
Apart
The
Engine
And
Put
It
All
Back
Together
That
Is
A
Car
Hacker
Yeah
I
Absolutely
Agree
With
That
I
I've
Used
The
Phrase
Car
Hacker
Before
And
People
Kind
Of
Laugh
Saying
You
Know
People
Think
Hacking
Is
A
Computer
Only
Thing
No
There
Are
Car
Hackers
You
Know
These
People
Like
You
Said
They
Will
Tweak
That
Car
And
Figure
Out
How
It
Works
I
Know
I
Know
I
Have
Been
Working
On
My
Car
Trying
To
Learn
About
It
Trying
To
Figure
Out
How
To
How
To
Do
Some
Things
To
Soup
Up
My
Car
And
You
Know
It's
Just
The
Nature
You
Know
It's
Just
The
Mind
It's
Well
Inside
The
Mind
Of
A
Hacker
Exactly
What
The
Article
Was
Titled
So
Yeah
I
Mean
It's
Not
Necessarily
Limited
To
Computers
In
Now
Generally
Yes
I Have
To
Say
It's
Probably
Computers
But
That's
Because
Computers
Are
Everywhere
Now
That's
The
New
Technology
And
It's
Something
That
You
Know
Basically
Our
Generation
Grew
Up
With
You
Know
From
The
Ground
Up
You
Know
We
Started
With
The
Earliest
Computers
That
Came
Out
And
Have
Constantly
Evolved
With
Them
So
As
They
Evolve
So
Do
We
So
Yes
There
Is
A
Kinship
And
You
Can
Think
Outside
Of
The
Lines
And
All
These
Clichés
Outside
Of
The
Box
Blah
You
Know
It's
A
Mindset
It's
Not
Necessarily
A
Computer
Term
To
Me
It
Really
Isn't
But
That's
Really
Trying
To
Turn
That
Mindset
Around
Is
Really
Pushing
Your
Luck
I
Don't
Know
If
You
Can
Push
People
Away
From
Associating
Hacking
With
Computer
But
Yeah
I'm
Try
To
Specify
From
Now
On
That's
My
Goal
That's
What
I'm
Going
To
Try
To
Do
What
Okay
How
About
What
About
The
Word
Freak
Is
A
Freak
A
Hacker
Freak
Is
A
Phone
Hacker
Exactly
But
See
That
That's
The
Tricky
Part
It's
A
Phone
Hacker
Absolutely
Right
I
Agree
With
You
100%
But
It's
Got
A
Special
Word
A
Freak
A
Freak
Is
Considered
A
Different
Type
Of
Hacker
But
It
Is
A
Hacker
Nonetheless
What
Kind
Of
Word
Are
We
Going
To
Give
To
I
Don't
Know
Criminal
Hackers
Or
Black
Hat
Hackers
Or
Whatever
You
Want
To
Call
It
That's
The
Difficulty
So
You
Know
Again
Write
In
If
Anybody
Has
Any
Ideas
Or
If
You've
Seen
Other
Terms
Out
There
That
Maybe
We
Haven't
Mention
I
Don't
I
Mean
I
Guess
The
Best
Option
Is
The
Word
Cracker
But
I
Don't
Know
Maybe
I
Just
Maybe
It's
Just
Me
Maybe
I
Just
Don't
Like
That
Word
Cracker
It
Doesn't
Sound
It
Sounds
Too
Close
To
Hacker
I
Guess
But
Yeah
Freak
What
About
What
About
A
Script
Kitty
Technically
That's
Synonymous
With
Newbie
Hacker
Or
Lame
Hacker
Or
Something
Like
That
But
Again
That's
A
New
That's
A
Term
That's
Disassociated
With
The
Word
Hacker
You
Know
Or
Lamer
Or
Wares
Puppy
That's
My
Favorite
One
Of
My
Favorite
Terms
I
Use
A
Lot
You
Know
Which
Is
Completely
Unrelated
To
Well
I
Don't
Know
Is
Wares
Is
A
Wares
Puppy
Is
A
Pirate
Is
That
Is
That
Completely
Different
Than
A
Hacker
Is
That
Also
A
Subset
It's
The
Problem
Because
We
Always
Say
Oh
It's
Bad
That
Weird
Stuff
But
I
Mean
Okay
Fine
They
Do
Bad
Things
They
Do
Great
Copyright
Stuff
But
Some
Of
Those
Guys
Are
Pretty
Smart
Oh
Absolutely
But
Do
You
Think
The
Majority
Of
The
Pirates
Out
There
Do
You
Think
The
Majority
Of
Them
Are
Hackers
Who
Are
Developing
See
Now
Here's
Why
I
Don't
Like
The
Cracker
To
Me
When
I
Use
The
Word
Cracker
It's
Somebody
Who
Writes
A
Crack
For
Software
When
You
Write
A
Crack
To
Get
Around
Copy
Protection
Or
Write
A
Crack
Or
A
Key
Generator
Or
Something
Like
That
That's
When
I
Would
Use
The
Term
Cracker
So
To
Use
That
As
A
Generic
You
Know
The
Guy
Breaks
Into
A
Bank
And
Steals
Credit
Cards
Or
Transfer
Funds
You
Call
Him
A
Cracker
No
You
Call
Him
A
Hacker
No
I
Don't
Really
Think
There's
I
Just
Say
Start
Calling
It
Like
It
Is
And
Call
Him
A
Thief
Call
Him
A
Criminal
That's
What
He
Is
Just
The
Fact
That
He
Used
A
Computer
As
Tool
You
Know
It's
Like
If
He
Comes
In
And
Robs
A
Bank
With
A
Gun
You
Know
He
He's
Still
A
Thief
Or
Criminal
If
Comes
In
With
A
Knife
You
Don't
Call
Him
A
Knifer
Oh
He
Was
The
Bank
Was
Robbed
By
A
Knifer
Today
Yesterday
Was
Robbed
By
A
Gunner
Tomorrow
It's
Going
To
Be
Robbed
By
A
Nunchucker
You
Know
You
Don't
You
Don't
Label
It
Based
On
The
Tool
So
You
Know
To
Say
It
Was
A
Computer
Hacker
I
Don't
Know
Just
Doesn't
Seem
To
Fit
Well
Again
I'm
Going
To
Go
Back
And
Tell
You
This
Came
From
Microsoft
Small
Business
Central
The
Author
Is
Monty
N.
Bisque
If
You
Want
To
Go
Back
And
Search
And
Read
The
Full
Text
Of
This
I'm
Not
Going
To
All
Of
It
I
Just
Cut
Out
Some
Parts
That
I
Found
Interesting
He
Says
That
My
Purpose
With
This
Is
To
Explore
The
Mindset
Of
People
Who
Break
Into
Have
A
Problem
With
Them
Saying
That
Predominantly
Males
Represent
Serious
Threats
To
The
Safety
Of
Networks
And
Users
Bob
Sullivan
A
Veteran
MSNBC.com
Reporter
Who's
Covered
The
Hacker
Community
For
Five
Years
Refers
To
The
Threatening
Ones
As
Computer
Criminals
Attackers
Or
Online
Thugs
Something
Other
Than
Hacker
To
Avoid
Confusion
Or
Controversy
I
Will
Follow
His
Lead
That's
All
I
Ask
A
Difference
Between
Hackers
And
Thieves
He
Lists
Five
Things
In
This
Article
Which
I
Thought
We
Could
Touch
On
He
Labels
It
He's
Got
A
Chart
Basically
He
Labels
Important
Things
To
Know
About
The
Bad
Guys
Now
He's
I'll
Go
On
And
Read
This
When
He
Says
The
Bad
Guys
He
Is
Now
Instead
That
When
He
Refers
To
He's
Not
Referring
To
Hackers
And
He's
Separating
Let's
Listen
To
How
He
Goes
Ahead
With
That
Says
Hackers
In
General
And
Computer
Criminals
In
Particular
So
He
Does
Differentiate
Love
The
Power
Of
Control
For
More
It's
About
The
Thrill
Of
Technology
Than
Active
Malice
Says
Richard
Ford
A
Security
Expert
And
Former
Chief
Technology
Officer
For
Cynetic
Ventures
It's
A
Puzzle
To
Solve
A
Game
To
Play
For
Some
It's
About
Money
Although
These
Garfinkel
Not
To
Be
Confused
With
Simon
And
Garfinkel
Chief
Technology
Officer
For
Sandstorm
Enterprises
And
Author
Of
Several
Books
On
Security
The
Bad
Guys
Want
To
Control
As
Many
Machines
As
Possible
The
Majority
Are
In
It
For
Fun
They
Attack
The
Machines
Of
Their
Enemies
And
Of
Companies
Yet
Many
Who
Break
In
For
Fun
Graduate
To
Breaking
In
For
Monetary
Gain
Well
Up
Until
That
Last
She's
Pretty
Decent
She's
Regular
You
Expect
Is
Are
We
In
It
For
The
Power
Of
Control
Is
It
A
Control
Issue
Do
We
Like
Having
Control
And
Owning
Someone's
Site
Or
Owning
That
That's
The
Same
With
Me
I'm
Curious
I want
To
Find
Out
How
It
Works
And
Why
It
Works
And
Yeah
I guess
Maybe
I cross
The
Line
Sometimes
And
Saying
Hey
Wouldn't
It
Be
Cool
If
You
Know
And
Try
To
Do
Something
But
It's
Again
Because
I'm
Trying
I want
To
See
If
It's
Possible
See
If
It's
You
Know
I
Find
It
Really
Cool
When
I
Learn
A lot
About
A
System
And
I
Go
And
I
Go
Ha ha
They
Screwed
This
Up
Watch
What
I
Can
Do
And
It
Turns
Out
To
Not
Work
That's
Actually
A
Wonderful
Feeling
To
Me
Because
I'm
Thinking
Wow
Companies
And
I've
Had
Software
That
I've
Bought
Or
I've
Used
At
Work
Where
I
Think
You
Know
This
Doesn't
Look
Too
Good
Let
Push
Its
Limits
Let
See
If
It's
Secure
Let
See
What
I
Can
Do
With
It
And
It
Turns
Out
To
Stop
Me
And
To
Stop
Hopefully
A lot
Of
You
Ever
Made
Any
Money
At
Hacking
See
Um
Maybe
I
Want
To
Bet
I
Doubt
Anything
Else
Other
Than
That
Yeah
Me
Either
I
Mean
We're
Not
Getting
Paid
For
The
Show
We're
Not
Getting
Paid
From
The
Site
There's
No
Advertising
I
Don't
Make
Money
On
The
Forums
I
Don't
Make
Money
Well
Actually
I
Guess
We
Make
A
Little
Bit
Of
Money
On
The
Magazine
But
We
Maybe
We
Should
Break
Into
Banks
Hey
That
Be
Fun
Yeah
That's
What I
Want
To
Do
That's
My
Goal
That's
Why
I
Became
A
Hacker
Hey
I
Bet
Like
So
Many
People
Were
Like
Damn
I'm
Gonna
Make
Some
Real
Money
And
Go
Break
Into
A
Bank
And
Think
We're
Arrested
Man
Yeah
Do you
Think
There's
Really
People
That
Are
Out
There
That
Say
Okay
I
Have
That
In
Four
And
A
Half
Years
I'm
Gonna
Break
Into
The
Bank
I'm
Gonna
Steal
Some
Money
And
I'm
Gonna
Move
To
I
Don't
Know
Mexico
Somewhere
And
Live
Happily
Ever
After
Do you
Think
I mean
Am I
Naive
Do people
Really
Do that
Do you
Think
Just
Go
Out
Say
I'm
Gonna
Go
Make
A
Million
Dollars
From
No
Hack
I
Bet
There's
People
That
They're
That
Stupid
Yeah
There
Probably
Are
I
I'm
Sure
There's
Some
Foundation
And
Reality
Of
This
But
I
Don't
Know
I
Can't
Really
Fathom
Again
Maybe
It's
Because
That's
Not
What
Hacking
Is
About
I
Can't
Relate
To
That
But
I
Guess
It
Must
Exist
There's
Probably
Somebody
Out
There
Who
Thinks
You
Know
I
Bet
A
Lot
Of
People
Get
Pulled
In
Through
MP3
Honestly
A
I
Can
Make
Money
And
So
I
Can
Do
This
And
I
Can
Do
That
I
Bet
You
That
Brought
A
Lot
Of
People
In
With
That
Intent
But
I
Would
Say
That's
A
Very
Small
Minority
Of
Hackers
I
Really
Think
The
Majority
Of
Hackers
Agree
With
Us
You
Know
Yeah
The
Last
Sentence
He
Says
Here
About
It
Says
Many
Who
Break
In
For
Fun
Graduate
To
Breaking
In
More
Intense
And
You
Become
Turned
To
The
Dark
Side
Or
Something
Cliche
Like
That
I
Don't
Know
I
Been
In
The
Hacking
Scene
For
Gosh
As
Long
As
I
Can
Remember
You
Know
15
20
Years
Now
And
I
Haven't
Turned
To
The
Bad
Side
Yet
To
The
Dark
Side
Yet
Hopefully
I
Never
Will
I
Guess
It's
Inevitable
If
I
Listen
To
This
Guy
Maybe
I
Might
As
We'll
Go
Ahead
And
Do
It
Now
After
We're
Done
Recording
You
Want
To
Break
Into
A
Bank
Hey
Dude
I
Am
So
Up
For
That
Oh
Especially
What
Was
This
What
I
Hear
About
Some
Stupid
Asses
Defacing
Websites
Over
The
Weekend
Oh
God
We
Really
Don't
Want to
Go
Too
Much
On
To
That
Yeah
There's
A
Hackers
Challenge
A
Defacers
Challenge
I
Guess
Is
A
Better
Term
That's
Just
Point
Let's
Just
Back
Away
From
The
Next
Story
Actually
It
Is
A
Funny
Story
About
That
Because
All
This
Was
Going
To
Be
Recorded
On
Zone
H
Which
Is
A
Famous
Or
I
Don't
know
Famous
Is
A
Good
Word
But
One
Of
The
Only
Sites
That
Stores
Defaced
Web
Pages
Like
A
Database
Of
Defaced
Web
Pages
And
I
Guess
Other
Hackers
That
Think
Like
We
Do
That
This
Is
Not
A
Positive
Thing
For
The
Community
And
Something
That
We
Want
To
Happen
They
Went
Out
There
And
They
DOS
Which
I
Don't
Know
If
That
Justifies
That
Method
To
Stop
This
Negative
I
Don't
Know
If
It's
Worse
Than
The
Original
But
They
DOS
The
Zone
8
Site
So
People
Weren't
Able
To
Report
And
Weren't
Able
To
Have
Their
Defacements
But
Yeah
I
Mean
People
Came
In
And
Said
We
Don't
Support
This
Don't
Go
Out
There
And
Call
This
A
Hacking
Challenge
It's
Not
You
Know
You
Do
Not
Represent
Hackers
So
Those
People
That
Did
That
I
Like
It
I
Don't
Know
If
The
Method
Of
Attacking
It
With
The
DOS
Is
The
Way
To
Go
But
I
Have
To
Say
That
I
Kind
Of
Support
It
But
Yeah
That's
Well
We
Might
Talk
About
That
Next
Week
Because
Let's
See
What
News
Comes
Out
Of
That
See
What
Ends
Up
Happening
The
Sites
Were
DOS
And
Who
Knows
If
Anything
Really
Happened
And
There
Was
Even
Some
People
You
Know
I
Read
A
Couple
Reports
Saying
That
It
Was
All
A
Hoax
Anyway
That
There
Was
Really
No
Organized
Method
Of
Attack
Or
Organized
You
Know
It
Was
Just
More
Like
A
Thrown
Out
To
The
Media
As
A
Red
Herring
So
To
Speak
So
Yeah
Let's
See
What
Happens
With
That
Next
Week
Number
Two
On
His
List
Here
Important
Things
To
Know
Says
They
Caused
The
Most
Damage
With
Data
Theft
And
Fraud
While
Technology
Is
Generally
Becoming
More
Secure
Breakdowns
Are
Continually
Exploited
And
The
Internet
Is
Ballooning
So
Fast
That
Online
Thugs
Have
New
Opportunities
Every
Time
They
Boot
Up
Now
He
Says
Again
Online
Thugs
When
He
Says
That
He's
Not
Referring
To
Hackers
In
General
He
Made
The
Distinction
Earlier
That
He's
Referring
To
The
Bad
Hackers
Or
Thieves
Or
Whatever
You
Want
To
Call
Them
So
That's
Not
A
Jab
At
Hacking
He's
Pointing
That
Out
As
What
He's
His
Opinion
I
Guess
It's
Not
A
Statement
Of
Fact
But
His
Opinion
Do
You
Think
That
Generally
The
Internet
Is
Becoming
More
Secure
Technology
In
General
Is
Becoming
More
Secure
Or
Less
Secure
The
Same
I
Think
So
Too
I
Think
It's
Exponentially
Growing
But
I
Mean
Yeah
For
Every
Secure
Package
That
Comes
Out
There
Is
An
In
Secure
One
That
Goes
Along
With
It
Ironically
Yeah
Number
Three
On
This
List
Many
Companies
Allow
Attackers
To
Get
Away
With
It
The
Same
FBI
Survey
Cited
Above
Found
That
Only
34
Percent
Of
Respondents
Reported
Computer
Breaches
To
Authorities
Many
Cited
Fears
Of
Potential
Bad
Publicity
MSNBC
Sullivan
Illustrated
Just
How
Attackers
Can
Take
Advantage
Of
Companies
In
A
June
Story
About
His
Email
Interview
With
Zil
Terio
You
Ever
Heard
Of
That
Person
Nope
Zil
Terio
A
Noted
Extortionist
Again
He
Did
Not
Put
The
Word
Hacker
He
Put
The
Word
Extortionist
I
Like
That
Whose
Real
Identity
Is
A
Mystery
For
More
Than
A
Year
Zil
Terio
Has
Hacked
Into
Financial
Institutions
And
Online
Businesses
Stealing
Data
And
Then
Demanding
Extortion
Payments
He
Claims
Nine
Firms
Have
Paid
Him
150
Thousand
And
Quote
Quiet
Money
While
It
What
The
Hell
Do
You
Think
Let's
Say
This
Is
Definitely
Going
To
Be
Opinion
Or
You
Know
I
Guess
We
Can't
Judge
Whether
This
Is
True
Or
Not
But
If
I
Owned
A
Bank
And
I
Found
Out
After
The
Fact
That
Somebody
Had
Hacked
In
And
Stolen
Money
Would
I
Report
It
Yeah
Hell
Fucking
Yeah
I'd
Report
It
Would
I
Be
Worried
About
People
Finding
Out
Or
Losing
Reputation
Because
Of
I
Think
I
Think
If
People
Found
Out
You
Tried
To
Hide
It
That
Would
Destroy
Your
Reputation
More
Than
Not
I
Mean
What
Do
You
Think
Hey
I
Mean
You're
Going
To
Deface
The
Website
You're
Going
To
Do
Anything
Right
You're
Going
To
Probably
One
Day
Pay
The
Consequences
Of
That
Well
I
Don't
Know
If
You
Know
He's
Saying
That
He
Goes
In
And
Hacks
Companies
Or
Finds
Security
Holes
Or
Whatever
And
Then
Sends
A
Letter
Saying
Wire
Me
Twenty
Thousand
Dollars
Or
Whatever
To
This
Offshore
Fund
Or
I'm
Going
To
Take
Your
System
Down
Or
I'm
Going
To
Release
You
Know
This
Information
About
Your
Customers
I
Think
Buy.com
Was
Affected
By
This
A
Couple
Other
Online
Sites
Were
Affected
By
This
And
They
Immediately
Sent
Assured
You
Know
This
Didn't
Happen
Or
That
Did
Happen
I
Think
I
Actually
Even
Though
It
Sucks
That
They
Got
Hacked
I
Think
The
Fact
That
They
Owned
Up
To
It
Is
Better
Than
Hiding
It
And
Me
Finding
Out
You
Know
Later
On
That
Somebody
May
Have
That
Information
So
I
Don't
Know
If
That's
Really
True
Do
You
Think
People
Pay
Quiet
money
That
That's
Good
Question
I
Think
Most
People
Say
Keep
It
Inside
To
Me
They
Might
Be
Like
Say
Hacker
X
Or
Criminal
X
Goes
And
Find
Something
Pretty
Interesting
I
That
They
Trying
To
Get
Their
Own
Money
Out
Of
It
Like
A
Good
Guy
Would
Go
Find
Something
And
Release
It
Quietly
First
Like
All
The
Guys
I
Know
That
Would
Find
Some
Bug
In
Software
They
Would
First
Tell
The
Company
Hey
You
Have
This
We
Have
This
Line
Of
The
Machine
Now
We
Going
To
Go
Public
With
This
Unless
You
Want
To
Keep
It
Quiet
And
Figure
It
Yourself
Yeah
And
They
Get
All
Offended
Then
And
They
Want
To
Come
Prosecute
You
For
Finding
It
You
Know
See
That
That's
Another
Catch
22
Of
Reporting
Stuff
And
Again
That's
A
Whole
Another
Topic
For
Another
Show
Too
You
Know
Reporting
That
Kind
Of
Stuff
You
Know
I
Agree
With
It
I
You
Know
If
I
Find
Something
Like
That
I
Usually
Email
Them
If
They
Respond
Or
Don't
Respond
You
Know
That's
Irrelevant
I
Did
The
Right
Thing
By
Contacting
Them
I
Will
Then
Follow
It
Up
By
Talking
About
It
On
The
Show
Or
On
RFA
Which
I
Have
Done
Before
With
Exploits
Writing
Articles
About
Submitting
Them
To
2600
To
Binary
Revolution
To
Any
Of
The
Magazines
Out
There
You
Know
I
Report
It
You
Know
I
Know
I
Not
Total
Goodie
Two
Shoes
That
I
Think
I
Got
To
Notify
The
Proper
Authorities
And
Give
Them
Time
To
Fix
It
I
Give
Them
The
Customary
30
Days
That's
A
Standard
Accepted
Practice
And
If
They
Don't
Care
Enough
To
Respond
Or
They
Don't
Care
Enough
To
Fix
It
That
That's
All
On
Them
I
Told
Them
About
It
I
Helped
Out
I
Did
The
Right
Thing
I
Know
There's
Other
People
Out
Do
You
Extort
Them
Like
This
Zilterio
Guy
Is
I
The
Other
Thing
Is
Who
Knows
This
Guy
This
Could
Be
A
We
Have
No
Way
Of
Knowing
If
This
Guy's
Claims
Are
Even
True
And
B
We
Have
No
Idea
Of
Knowing
Whether
These
Statistics
34%
Only
34%
Are
Reported
We
Don't
Even
Know
If
That's
True
That's
Also
Someone's
Opinion
Or
Based
On
Some
Study
That's
Questionable
There
But
Still
An
Interesting
Point
Number
Four
He
Says
Any
Business
With
A
Website
Is
A
Target
Well
That
Pretty
Much
Goes
Without
Saying
Many
Of
Today's
Online
Thugs
Set
Up
Scanners
To
Track
Unprotected
Websites
And
Networks
To
Attack
Says
Garfinkel
Co-author
Of
Web
Security
Privacy
And
Commerce
Some
Can
Scan
Hundreds
Or
Thousands
Of
Sites
In
A
Matter
Of
Seconds
Garfinkel's
Own
Site
Is
Protected
By
A
Firewall
That
Can
Track
How
Many
Times
It's
Been
Scanned
By
Potential
Intruders
One
Recent
Day
He
Conounted
289,000
Different
Scans
Including
1,044
By
The
Same
Would
Be
Attacker
Once
They
Find
Vulnerable
Sites
They
Set
Up
Their
Attack
Tools
Somebody
Adds
Know
That
You
Could
Be
A
Target
It
Doesn't
Matter
What
Business
You
In
Well
That
Just
Seems
Kind
Silly
I
Think
That
Common
Sense
Tells
You
That
Anybody
Knows
That
If
You
Go
On
The
Internet
Or
If
You
Turn
On
Your
Computer
Accessible
By
Anywhere
Whether
It's
By
Modem
By
Internet
By
Network
Intranet
Just
The
Act
Of
Turning
On
Your
Computer
And
Opening
It
Up
For
Access
Is
Making
Your
Computer
Vulnerable
That
Just
Seems
Silly
To
Say
I
Think
We
All
Know
That
The
Last
Thing
He
Says
Attack
Attackers
Will
Get
Bolder
With
Blended
Threats
What
Is
A
Blended
Threat
That's
The
Fear
Of
Sarah
Gordon
Senior
Research
Fellow
At
Symantec
How do
You
Say
That
Symantec
I've
Heard
It
Said
So
Many
Ways
Symantec
Security
Response
Unit
And
An
Expert
On
The
Psychology
Of
Computer
Criminals
By
Blended
Threats
Oh
She's
Going
To
Tell
Me
She
Means
Break
Ends
Combined
With
Virus
Infections
And
Other
Methods
Of
Destruction
All
Of
Which
Could
Take
Down
Companies
Networks
In
A
Matter
Of
Minutes
Four
Degrees
Massive
Numbers
Of
Systems
Could
Be
Compromised
Leading
To
Huge
Nationwide
Outages
Fortunately
We
Haven't
Seen
This
Happen
Yeah
Sure
You
Haven't
But
I
Do
Believe
It's
A
Matter
Of
When
Not
If
So
Much
Of
The
Software
On
Computers
Today
Is
Similar
He
Says
So
A
Problem
For
One
Computer
Is
Likely
To
Be
Replicated
In
Others
For
NASA
With
Mobile
Phones
And
Other
Devices
Connecting
Networks
To
The
Internet
Attackers
Have
More
Entry
Points
That's
True
I
Don't
I
Don't
Understand
They're
Acting
Like
This
Blended
Thread
As
Some
Wave
Of
The
Future
It's
Like
Going
Back
To
The
Old
Days
Of
Getting
Money
You're
Going
To
Use
A
Couple
Different
Methods
Of
Making
Sure
You're
Going
To
Get
Your
Money
But
To
Me
It's
Always
Been
Multiple
Methods
Yeah
You
Some
Future
Wave
You
Know
It's
A
Combination
Of
Attacks
And
A
Combination
Of
Methods
To
Get
In
It's
Not
Again
This
Might
Go
Back
To
That
Old
Myth
That
The
Newbie
Hackers
Have
Teach
Me
Move
There's
Always
Different
Move
You
Gotta
Change
Your
Move
For
Different
People
There's
Always
An
Ultimate
Defense
To
Match
Every
Ultimate
Move
Yeah
Exactly
Yeah
There's
Just
Every
Attack
Is
A
Blended
Attack
In
My
Mind
But
Hey
Who
Am
I
I'm
Just
A
Guy
Doing
A
Radio
Show
Yeah
Anyway
I
Thought
This
Again
Was
Just
An
Interesting
Article
To
Talk
About
Inside
The
Hacker
Mind
We've
Heard
That
Before
Haven't
We
So
A
Lot
Of
These
Were
His
Interpretations
And
His
View
The
Author's
View
And
Some
Others
That
He
Referenced
In
Here
And
A
Lot
Of
It
I
Actually
Have
To
Agree
With
I
Like
The
Fact
That
It
Differentiated
Again
So
That's
Why
I'm
Bringing
To
Light
That
There
Are
People
Who
Seem
To
At
Least
Try
To
Get
It
They
May
Miss
A
And
I
Think
Our
Time
Has
Flown
Past
Hasn't
It
It's
Been
There
It's
Been
Wow
Well
I
Guess
We
Better
Close
It
Up
For
This
Episode
We
Again
This
Is
The
First
Official
Episode
Of
Binary
Revolution
Radio
So
We
Would
Be
Remiss
Without
Again
Mentioning
Dual
Parallel
And
Radio
Freak
America
Gotta
Give
Mad
Shout
Out
To
Him
For
Teaching
Us
A
Lot
Of
How
To
Do
This
Now
They're
Up
To
Episode
70
Make
Sure
You
Check
Them
Out
They're
On
The
Same
They're
On
Rent
Radio
Mute
No
Of
Course
Logan
Five
He
Puts
Out
The
Best
Magazine
Money
Can
Buy
Yeah
All
DDP
Members
You know
Definitely
Shout
Out
Because
We
We've
Been
Talking
About
This
For
A
While
Getting
This
Up
And
Running
We've
Had
A
An
Opening
From
Bland
Inquisitor
To
Help
Opening
The
Show
The
Opening
Themes
Oh
I
Gotta
Mention
This
Zerl
My
Man
Zerl
Made
That
Opening
Theme
Gave
Us
Permission
To
Use
That
As
Our
Official
Theme
Music
Opening
The
Show
So
We
Definitely
Gotta
Say
Thanks
To
Him
My
Broward
2600
Meeting
If
Anybody
Is
Listening
There
I
Gotta
Give
Some
Shout
To
Them
Mute
I
Know
You're
2600
Meeting
They
Got
Battery
Got
The
Fuck
Up
We
Got
Everyone
There
All
The
People
Are
Pretty
Cool
I
Just
Love
Them
All
They
Always
Brought
Me
Good
Luck
And
Everything
Whenever
I
Show
Up
To
The
Meetings
It's
Always
Fun
Can't
Get
Enough
Yep
Anybody
We
Left
Out
Will
Definitely
Appreciate
The
Community
In
General
You
Know
We've
Got
A
Lot
Of
Support
From
A
Lot
Of
Different
People
Not
Only
On
RFA
Not
Forums
That
Really
Give
A Lot
Of
Feedback
And
It
Has
Not
Turned
Too
Much
Into
A
Lot
Of
Negativity
And
Name
Calling
I'm
Very
Happy
With
The
Community
And
The
People
We
Have
So
I
Thank
Each
And
Every
One
Of
You
And
Hopefully
We'll
Continue
To
Grow
With
That
Again
I
Mentioned
It
Earlier
But
If
You
Have
Feedback
We'd
Love
To
Hear
From
You
If
You
Want
To
Add
To
Some
Of
These
Topics
Or
You
Want
To
Disagree
Or
Call
Me
A
Fuck
Nut
Or
Whatever
You
Want
To
Do
Send
It
You
Can
Send
Me
An
Email
At
Letters
At
Binrev
Dot
Com
B
I
N
R
E
V
Dot
Com
And
That's
Obviously
You
Can
Go
There
As
The
Website
As
Well
So
We'll
Be
Putting
Up
The
Older
Episodes
And
Archiving
Them
So
You
Zerl
Dedication
To
The
Hackers
This
Is
The
Matrix
Remix
Of
Our
Opening
Theme
So
Enjoy
And
We
Will
See
You
Next
Week
Can
Never
Stack
For
We
Were
Floored
By
These
Evil
Whores
All
The
Best
Shit
We
Could
Never
Afford
The
Internet
At
MP3
They
Set
Us
Free
I'm
Downloading
Windows
And
Me
Right
Now
I'm
FTP
You
Bitches
Will
Never
Find
Me
Because
I'm
Everywhere
See
Yo
Dog
You
Got
Something
New
Hit
Me
Off
On
ICQ
I'll
Help
You
Back
And
Jive
I
Got
Some
Top
Not
Shit
I
Drive
You
Shut
One
Site
Down
We
Multiply
Like
A
Phoenix
From
A
Different
Place
We
Rise
Then
You
Got
The
Squares
Yo
Dude
You're
Stealing
Don't
You
Care
LOL
Bitch
I
Got
A
Terabyte
Of
Wears
I
Like
My
Files
Sit
Zip
Or
Rare
I
Download
700
Segments
From
A
Thousand
Sites
I
Drink
Coffee
Snort
Speed
I
Stay
Up
Dedicated
To
The
Hackers
And
The
Crackers
The
Ones
That
Set
Us
Free
Thanks
G
For
Setting
Us
Free
This
Is
Dedicated
To
The
Hackers
And
The
Crackers
I
See
In
Binary
I
Speak
Source
Code
Step
On
My
Toes
I
Post
A
Million
JPEGs
Of
You
In
A
Fag
Pose
In
Your
Digital
Stance
Getting
Firewalled
Hold
Cause
I
Riding
The
Net
In
My
Six
Fold
I
Digital
Highway
My
Name
Is
Neo
And
I
Am
A
Hero
In
A
Flash
I
School
You
On
Burn
Dreamcast
You
Need
Some
Isos
Let
Me
Do
My
Hard
Drive
Rifle
Or
Exchange
You
Could
Never
Stifle
In
A
Digital
Hug
You
Just
Caught
The
Love
Bug
I
Bootleg
Your
CD
I
Caused
The
Fight
Between
Un
And
Jay
Z
Your
CG
It
All
Gonna
Be
Free
Whether
We
Take
It
by force, so we take it nicely. You feel that rattle in your bones when I tell you we just
hacked out Jones? And NASDAQ leads you flat on your back, cause I am he who loves to hack
and crack. Cause I am he who loves to hack and crack. This is dedicated to the hackers
and the crackers. Serial codes, source codes, ISOs, RAS, SIPs, SIS. This is dedicated to
the hackers and the crackers. Your encryption is primitive Egyptian. I'll do more with a
486 and a flex tour. We've won when the six billion got atlons. And we tell each other
how to get it on. Cyber armies and the Pentagon were storming. I just found out who killed
JFK. The smoking gun will happen within a day. All the lies even faster. Go check the name
Truth on Napster. Digital disaster. The pricks will never find me in this matrix. A million
keyboard voices all named Morpheus. This is dedicated to those who set me free. Gotta buzz,
you're always my cuz. Radium, if I could only say to them thanks. Kalisto, you know.
Utopia and all my digital dogs. My net dons, my cyber gangsters, my wire warriors, my computer
comrades. This is for you. This is dedicated to the hackers and the crackers.
I know you're out there. I can feel you now. I know that you're afraid. You're afraid of us.
You're afraid of change. I don't know the future. I didn't come here to tell you how this is going to
end. I came here to tell you how it's going to begin. I'm going to hang up this bone and then I'm
going to show these people what you don't want them to see. I'm going to show them a world without you.
A world without rules and controls, without borders or boundaries. A world where anything is possible.
Where we go from there is a choice I leave to you.
A world without obstacles and perspectiveness I leave to you.
You
jewel
zap