I love my binary revolution radio.
I love my Radio Freak America.
You got your freak in my revolution.
You got your revolution in my Freak America.
That's some tasty binary revolution Radio Freak America.
With Stank Dog as usual and with Dual Parallel Special Freak Sauce.
I see in binary, I speak source code.
Step on my toes, I'll post a million jpegs of you in a fag pose.
In your digital stance, getting firewalled ho.
Cause I'm riding the net in my six foe.
I was a dick with my 56.
Now with my cable, I'm able to get that stable.
On the out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo.
On the digital highway, my name is Neo and I'm a hero.
In a flash, I'll school you on burning Dreamcasts.
You need some ISOs? Let me through my hard drive rifle.
Our exchange you could never stifle.
In a digital hug, you just caught the love bug.
I bootlegged your CD.
I caused a fight between Un and Jay-Z.
Your CG, it's all good to be free.
Whether we take it by force or we take it nicely.
You feel that rattle in your bones?
When I tell you we just hacked out Jones?
And NASDAQ leaves you flat on your back?
Cause I am he who loves to hack and crack.
This is dedicated to the hackers and the criminals.
Serial codes, source codes, ISOs, RANs, SIFs, SIFs.
This is dedicated to the hackers and the crack.
Alright, and welcome to episode 4 of Binary Revolution Radio.
I am StankDawg and I'm joined as always with...
Wintermute!
In the house!
Wait a minute!
Wait a minute, what's wrong with this picture?
What's wrong with this picture?
I'm Wintermute and I've hit puberty.
I was going to piss him off.
Over the weekend?
We don't know where he is!
Actually yeah, we know where he is.
You do know where he is?
Okay.
Yes, actually we had a little interaction, a little encounter this weekend.
Actually, Mute and I met in real life and went to Universal Studios Florida this weekend.
So that was a pretty good weekend, had a lot of fun.
So, because Mute is on to bigger and better things and out this week unable to record,
I had to, you know, go through the minor leagues to try to come up with a last minute replacement.
And in case you don't already know, mystery guest, please introduce yourself now.
I'm Duel.
Duel Parallel.
In the house!
It's not quite the same.
Yeah, I know.
That's his catchphrase.
It's like regal or something.
That's his catchphrase.
We'll have to leave him with that one.
It's like Duel off the freaking, you know, the street or something, you know.
This is the infamous Duel Parallel from Radio Freak America.
Thank you very much.
The greatest hacking freaking underground show on the internet.
Check it out.
Wednesdays.
Come on man, I'm pimping it.
Wednesday?
Oh yeah, Wednesday on Rant Radio.
Same station you're on.
And it is a good show.
You will like it.
No, it's on the 8th Pacific, Wednesday nights.
You can download it at oldskoolphreak.com afterwards, shortly afterwards.
I'm usually pretty good about getting it up soon.
We've got a great show now.
What?
You're pretty good at what?
Oh shit, no!
No!
Man, you just walked right in.
I didn't even have to trick you into saying that.
You're recording this show.
You know what, I'm just going to leave it in.
I won't even save that for a blackmail situation like you did to me on your last episode.
No, I didn't know such thing.
You totally took my phrase.
Look, for those...
Yeah, you just owned me, you know, while I was down and out freaking on travel.
Well, just to set the record straight to the listeners who were listening to our opening,
that was one of our outtakes from Radio Freak America on the last episode.
Duel was giving me a little payback.
You know, when I call and when I'm talking to Duel and we're getting ready to do the show,
I know he's recording everything.
No, I let you know.
I know, and I know and I just play along and I just say funny things and, you know, it comes out of context.
You know, the actual context, I don't mind that Duel records me, but when I'm talking to your mom, Duel,
I really think you should turn the recorder on.
I'm just saying.
That's fine.
Seriously, they're hilarious.
I've got tons of outtakes for the next special.
If anybody hasn't listened to episode 50 of Radio Freak America, check it out.
It's pretty funny.
I saved up all those outtakes.
Here's what I do before the show.
Like, thanks, we get everybody together.
It's kind of...
It's two-fold, right?
There's a double...
How do I say it?
We're killing two birds with one stone.
We're getting the mood up and energy up for the show.
As well as checking sound levels.
So everybody knows we're recording.
And we end up saying a lot of funny stuff and it leads to, you know, hilarious highlights.
Or lowlights.
But, if you use it in a different context, it can be used to one's advantage as it was.
One person's highlight can be another person's lowlight.
Yes, exactly, exactly.
So, no, it's all in good fun.
This is fun, by the way.
We do this all the time and I'm sure you've got...
I even said on...
I said, when he pays me back, I said, he can do an entire episode of all of my weird
and crazy and rude outtakes.
Yeah, I could.
I definitely could.
I'm trying to say this is fun, being a guest.
What?
Just like this show where I was on travel and I called in.
This is fun.
I told you for how long how fun it was to be on RFA.
Yeah, now I see why.
It's a blast.
I can surf, I can kick back.
It is.
It's a blast.
Everybody should do a show.
Do a show or get to be on somebody's show.
It's so much fun.
Thank you.
And since you mentioned that, I am actually going to try to start rotating in some other
guests.
I know I spoke to...
I probably shouldn't ruin it by saying it right now, but I spoke to some individuals
in particular.
They know who they are.
Don't jinx it.
What's that?
Don't jinx it.
No, no, no.
We're definitely going to work.
I mean, it's just a matter of timing and getting together for it.
So, we'll be mixing the guests in.
I still am too cheap to get a third line, you know, be able to do three-way calling.
Maybe I'll work that in sometime soon, but hey, you know, what are you going to do?
Yeah.
Um, let's actually move into some housekeeping topics.
I had put out a request, a challenge, a contest last episode for people to write show notes.
Well, I guess nobody wants to write show notes.
Well, wait a minute.
I don't want to write show notes.
I don't even like doing it and I have to write them for the show.
I had to as well, but wait a minute.
You just started, right?
I mean, you just put the message out last show, right?
Yeah, we just put it out last week.
That's true.
Ah, don't sweat it, man.
Well, we'll give it a little more time.
There's an address.
You listened to last episode three, you'll hear where the address was to mail stuff in
if you just still want to do it.
Um, I do write notes for the show, for us, so we know what topics to cover, but my shows
are, my notes are just way, way, way, way, way too verbose.
I mean, it's like, you know, downloading the notes might take longer than downloading the
show.
Right.
So, you know, I guess at some point if we want to, I can actually put up the text file
and let people download my notes that I wrote to go along with the show.
But, um, yeah, we'll, we'll see.
If anybody wants to write the notes, listen to the last episode and you'll find directions
on how to, and, um, if not, eventually when I get around to it, yeah, I'll probably post
up the notes that I write.
Um.
Okay, too, because I listen to it.
I just listen to, I actually listened to episode three twice this weekend.
It was, I liked it so much.
It was so good.
Right.
So I, maybe, you know, while I'm listening sometime, I'll, I'll start pounding stuff
out for you.
Yeah, that, that, that's true because, you know, I listen to stuff at work, you know, on my
headphones, so a lot of times I might not listen to it a week or two later.
So, yeah, we'll, we'll give it some time.
Cool.
Um, yeah, and actually, I didn't get really any email, so I take that as a good thing.
I guess episode three was a step up.
I guess we covered a lot more topics, had a lot more fun, a lot more diversity in the,
in the topics and the subject matter.
So, um, yeah, I, I'm, I'm hoping anyway.
I don't want to say that I think we're getting better, but I hope we're getting better each
and every episode.
I mean, like you said, well, this is, this is episode four we're recording now and, you know,
you know, hopefully episode five will be better and six will be better, et cetera, et cetera.
Um, we can only hope to be around as long as Radio Freak America.
You will be and I guarantee you'll get better and it's good already.
I mean, I had fun listening to it.
It's fun.
I, it's, I wouldn't do it if it wasn't fun.
I'm having a blast.
Yeah.
Absolutely a blast.
So.
And it's going to be fun for the listeners too.
So yeah, you're, you're there, man.
Well, between, between this and RFA.
Yeah.
I, this is, this is my release.
This is my outlet for the week of having fun.
So I absolutely have a blast.
Right on.
Um, actually we usually go into like our personal, you know, what we were doing this
week, what kind of playing around we did.
Did you, I know you have got Project Walmart Freedom going on.
Have you got any news or anything going on?
That is exactly what I've been doing.
I've been frequenting Walmarts and that's scary, first of all.
Did you say frequenting or freaking?
Frequent, yes.
Both.
And, uh, you know, learning a lot about stuff.
I've got a link up on Old School Freak about something I learned about, uh, just been messing
with their technology in general and getting, harvesting lots of phone numbers as well.
You know, doing a little social engineering on their internal system.
And actually I haven't gotten very far at that.
You know, it's like I call up people, they don't know anything about the store they work
in.
It's weird.
Well.
There are other avenues.
It's on a need to know basis.
So I guess it depends on who you talk to.
I guess.
I get more stuff from, like, the notes that people write down, you know, to help themselves
remember stuff, I guess.
You know, and start just checking stuff out.
So that's what I've been doing.
Project Wal-Mart Freedom is what I've been working on.
And it's a very impressive text file.
Big shout out to Bland because he's been putting in some great stuff, so.
And lots of other people.
Too many people to list right now.
It's going to be a great text file.
But, yeah, just, again, all the names are going to be included in the text file.
So, you know, send the stuff in.
Listen to RFA for that information.
Um, did you want to, did you have a special email address or something that you had ever
set up?
I don't remember.
Oh, right now.
Just send it to Zool at OldSkoolphreak.com.
Good.
Good deal.
Even if it's one pay phone number, send it, and you'll get your name on there.
That's all in it.
That's all it takes.
Yeah.
It's going to be a good text file.
Yeah.
It's going to be some rad shit.
Guy in Canada sent me some good stuff.
I've been getting pictures as well.
If you want to take a picture of a pay phone, send it to me.
Especially if you can get maybe the Walmart logo in the background or something of the
pay phone.
Yeah.
That would be really cool.
Any pictures of Walmart would be good.
Yeah.
That's what I've been working on, and it's paying off, man.
Thanks to everybody that's been sending stuff in.
It's a community article.
It's everyone's article.
Honestly, I don't know of anything like this that's been done before.
I mean, honestly, I don't.
I mean, because think about it, we've got across this nation and Canada as well, so we've
got two nations, two great nations, and all over.
It's just, it's amazing.
Yeah, and we've talked about this before.
The internet doesn't have borders.
Right.
You know, so there's always good information, always different information out there,
so that's really, really cool stuff.
PWF has blown up.
Keep sending it in, and again, this has never been done before.
Should we make up some Project Walmart Freedom theme music?
That would be rad.
It would be nice.
We need, like, some gunfire and some military chanting in the background or something.
I don't know, but I've been told.
Yeah, I must shop at Walmart.
Yeah, something scary.
It'd have to be, you know, like, horror music, I think.
You know, we actually, later on the show, I have a Walmart topic.
I probably could segue into it now, and I'm going to stick with the...
You're going to stick with the notes?
Yeah, I'm going to go through, actually, because I had a couple other things I wanted to do.
Just a couple quick mentions here.
The...
Back on RFA 47, I think it was, the one that Mutant and I, the Mutant Stank, Stank and Mute Special episode
that we filled in for you one week, we had mentioned a topic on a Federal Express hack,
a Federal Express vulnerability, if you want to call it, that we talked about.
And I just had opportunity this past week to confirm that that still has yet to be fixed.
Really?
They still have not made the fix.
Now, I'm not going to go over that whole thing again, because it was kind of long.
The short version is they have a vulnerability in the way that you access and print out shipping labels online
that will let you backdoor into their system and get email addresses and personal addresses
and shipment information on anybody else that's been shipped to from that company.
So, yeah, go back and listen to RFA episode 47.
See, this is why we have archives.
And mirrors.
Thanks to all the mirror people.
Absolutely.
Very much thanks to the mirror.
Anybody hosting a mirror and has the show notes that, you know, this is how people can
go back and find information, because information, some of it can be dated, but some of it doesn't.
So that's why I wanted to touch on that and let everybody know that that's still going on,
still a problem.
And I had another, you know, someone asked me this question this week.
And, Duel, let me ask you this.
Since you've been around, you've had the site up for a long time, this is a question that,
I don't know, I don't know if philosophical or just a decision that needs to be made.
How would you react if a company, even let's say it's a security,
some kind of internet like, I don't know, McAfee or some security intrusion detection software
company or something like that, they came to you, they saw your hacking site, and they
wanted to, or they asked you if you would put advertising on your site for them.
No.
And just no simply that quickly?
Yep.
So even if they offered to pay you X number for every, even if it wasn't click through,
they just said, you know what, you put ads up for us on your site and we'll pay, we'll
pay for your hosting.
Oh.
We'll pay your 10, 15 a month.
No.
None, not whatsoever.
Let me think about it, no.
So no hesitation, huh?
None whatsoever.
What if, what if Rant Radio were to request or require that you put in a 30 second commercial
on your show?
Bye bye.
You'd leave?
Yep.
Hmm.
Where are we going to, see we have to get that other thing set up, our other project,
we won't go into that.
It really, you wouldn't.
No, we'd have to, yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, you really feel that strongly that no advertising whatsoever, I mean does it matter
if it was a security or a legitimate thing?
What about, what if I asked you to put in a link to, well see I guess that's kind of
different though, when we link to each other.
Yeah.
If we link to each other it's different.
Say, what if I asked you to link to my site?
But that's, that's a whole different thing really.
No, no, no.
You're not, yeah.
You're not wanting a product.
Yeah.
Well, yeah I guess I see that.
So, just no advertising whatsoever.
It's just absolutely completely out of the question?
Uh, yeah.
Why?
Why do you ask?
Well, I'm just curious.
It came up in a conversation with somebody, um, that, what would it hurt if it was a small
advertisement at the bottom of the page or if it was just a little link box or something.
Not obtrusive, no, no shockwave or no flash animation, no plugin, nothing like that.
Just a small banner or link box or something like that.
Then everything I've ever said would, would have been for naught.
Hmm.
Everything.
Everything would be shit.
I would be shit.
Oh great, there's something else for you.
Yeah, man you're giving me a lot of outtakes I can pull from this episode.
Exactly.
Thanks for having me on your show.
No, seriously, I mean, it would, it would be, I, it would be worthless.
Everything that has been done and would be done in the future would be worthless.
I, and, and not to mention, I just don't want that.
That's not the point.
The point is, you know, honestly, I want to be, you know, it's nice to be around radio,
it's nice to have listeners, don't get me wrong, but I want to be underground, man.
I don't want to be freaking, I don't want to be mainstream.
That's the whole point of this.
I want to be, can I swear on your show?
Oh, absolutely.
By all means, we love it.
Actually, I've been trying to cut back, but, you know, it's hard.
I don't really, yeah, I've tried for a while, I don't really care anymore.
I mean, well, it's just like, it's, there's, well, there's a lot of things that I, I don't
agree with, you know, in traditional thinking and conventions and in this society, but, um,
you know, it would just, it would, I lost my train of thought there.
You wanted to cuss, so go ahead.
Well, yeah, honestly, uh, I, I want to, oh, now remember, I don't want to be mainstream.
I want to be able to say fuck.
Mm-hmm.
You know, I think you should be able to say fuck in the medium that we're, you know,
we're airing on.
Um, I mean, that's the whole point.
Well, we don't have to deal with-
I want to show kids, and I want to say fuck, you know, and I'm not, and I'm not saying that,
you know, so we'd have this, you know, a new man show with technology.
No, I'm just saying, it's, how do I say it, it's a, uh.
Well, I, I think I know, you know, it's, we don't have to deal with the FCC.
We don't have the seven words you can't say on radio.
We don't have to, that's the whole point.
This shit, fuck, cunt, hell, yeah, all that, we want to, it's almost like a feeling.
You know, I want that feeling where you know, you know, and whether, whether you get it
because you're hearing swearing, or whether you get it because you're hearing about, you
know, hacking or freaking, I want people to get that feeling that, you know what, this
isn't the usual shit we're listening to.
This is different.
Right, we-
I'm getting different information.
I'm getting a different viewpoint that's not shoved down my throat every day on the radio
and TV and billboards and advertisements.
And, I want to keep that.
That's the whole point.
Honestly, I wanted to be the media.
I wanted, I wanted a show that I would want to listen to.
Not all this drivel, you know, that you're being brainwashed with all the time.
And, uh, you know, I like that freedom to be able to say, fuck.
You know, and fuck the RAA and the MPAA.
And yeah, and that's the more important part.
It's not only, you know, we, the language we're saying is a joke.
We can, yeah, we can emote.
We can make our emotions clear with whatever we want.
But, yes, we can talk about whatever we want to talk about.
No one's going to fire us.
No one's going to tell us what we should and shouldn't say.
And we don't have to worry about advertising and offending people.
And, yeah, I agree.
That's absolutely, you know, one of the greatest feelings
and something they really can't take away from us on the internet.
They can try, and they are trying.
Yeah.
No, I actually, the reason, the reason I brought up the advertising is because I, I pretty much
agree with you.
But I was trying to be open-minded, and that's why I wanted to bring it on the radio to see
if any listeners had any different feelings or you had any different feelings.
So, you know, what if it gets to a point, like right now, we are underground.
We are small.
And, yeah, I mean, I don't mind staying that way.
But I also, at the same time, want Binary Revolution to be successful.
I want to gain more listeners.
So, it's going to come to a point where, especially, for example, let's say Hack TV.
Now, that's going to be a lot of bandwidth and a lot of people downloading, and that's
going to cost a lot of money.
And I don't mind paying for it.
I love doing it, and that's what I'm doing.
But I'm wondering, is there ever going to come a point, and I'm thinking realistically
now, not idealistically, but realistically, is there going to come a point where they're
going to say, listen, you know, your bandwidth bill this month is $500 because you've got
all this stuff.
You know, am I going to be able to realistically, financially support that?
And if not, would advertising of my choice and what I control, you know, I still would
have, no, I'm not going to have Microsoft advertising, or yes, I am going to have, you
know, this.
I'm trying to think open-mindedly, would I go for it, or, and if not, what is the
alternative?
Yeah, but you're giving everything up.
It's like you're giving up your principles.
That's the whole point of everything.
I couldn't afford to keep the archive servers up.
Server, pardon me.
So I got rid of it.
You'll find another way.
I'm not saying you right now, but whoever would be doing this would find another way.
You can find another way.
Money is never a problem.
You want to get your message out.
If you want to do the right thing, money is not a problem.
I think that would, it would just wipe out every, every good thing you'd want to do.
If you can't afford the bandwidth, you know, for the hack TV site.
I know we're speaking hypothetically here.
If you can't afford the bandwidth, then find another way.
Don't do it.
Do something else.
You know, do it in the future.
You know, honestly, it's not, it just wouldn't be worth it.
It would just, all for naught.
It would make everything all for naught.
Yeah, you're probably right.
And hopefully, you know, the other thing is I, back to the, to the project Walmart Freedom,
that gives me things like that.
And things like, like VoodooHow volunteering to do some, you know, teaching in the IRC channels
and stuff like that.
Things like that give me just in such a great feeling of faith and trust in the community
and in my fellow hackers that we will find a way.
Maybe I might not find a way, but we will find a way.
And I have friends and people that I can count on to come through with other solutions
so that hopefully, you know, we won't ever have to come to that decision.
Yeah.
And I mean, face it.
I mean, we probably won't, you know, we're not going to be making money anytime soon on
this stuff.
Everybody does it for the love of technology, right?
Right.
Same reason we do the shows.
Right.
Yeah.
All right.
Let's use Sean Kay as an example, if I may.
I mean, he does some good shit.
To see that man make money and what he does, because he does it well and I enjoy it.
You know?
And I agree.
But I don't think, I don't think he would ever give in to advertising.
I don't know.
And maybe that is the question.
What happens when you get to the point, I mean, he's going to get big enough where he
can make money or will make money if, boy, I think I see what you're saying.
I think I see the point now.
I'm just, you know, it's, hopefully it'll never happen and hopefully there'll be a solution.
And also, let's be realistic.
By the time this might happen, there may be new breakthroughs in technology where bandwidth
is cheaper and that problem is therefore no, you know, it's a moot point by then because
we are honestly going to a, you know, looking for a future where we deliver a high bandwidth
content and television streaming TV over the internet and things like that.
So, maybe by then it will not be a problem.
That's just one example though.
I think you should ask or somebody should ask Sean Kaye that very same question because
think about it.
How is he supposed to grow and change without some kind of sponsorship?
Can he grow and change without some kind of sponsorship?
Could he ever be just, you know, like PBS, you know?
I don't know.
But is it necessarily bad change if you have, I mean, do you necessarily have to sell out?
I mean, you're kind of making it sound like it's selling out if you were to do some
of these.
Or are you just compromising to continue getting out your same message?
I mean, if it ever came to the point where it's like, yeah, we're going to support you
but you can't bad mouth Microsoft anymore because they're one of our sponsors, then hell yeah,
I'm going to be like, you know what?
Fuck you.
Screw you guys.
I'm going home.
You know, I'm going cartman on somebody.
I'm out.
And then, you know, like that's why we discussed we have alternatives we can try and make happen
if we can.
And, you know, we could be the next ones to start something like that.
You know, another revolution.
You know, the Sean Kaye example really made me see why you asked this question now.
That really made me realize that, yeah.
Well, anyway, I just wanted to throw it out there and kind of, because it is sitting in
the back of my head and, you know, I just, I don't know what to think about.
I, I, the first thing I said was like you, I'm like, no, no.
And then I'm like, well, then again, you know.
You made me think.
You made me think it through.
What would it hurt?
And then again, would it help?
And would I sell out?
And what's the, anyway.
I didn't mean for it to get that deep, but yeah, okay.
I just wanted to throw that out there and, you know, it's, you know, it's not quite as
simple as saying no.
I mean, you got to think about it sometimes.
So.
Apparently not.
Let's, um, let's go into some actual topics.
Um, I read an article this week on, it was actually a debate in Network World magazine,
um, which is a weekly magazine that I get.
I'm sorry, monthly.
It's not weekly.
It's monthly.
That's a real big one.
Yes.
It's real, like almost newspaper size, or I guess not quite that big.
Half newspaper size.
Um, and they had, and they're hit and miss.
You know, sometimes articles are great.
Sometimes they really suck.
Sometimes they're very anti-hacker, whatever.
This one I thought was very intriguing.
I thought it was a good discussion, a good debate that we could kind of continue online.
And the topic was, are filters more effective than laws in stopping spam?
Do you filter the spam out, or do you pass laws to stop spam in general?
So, they had two people debating, one debating each side.
And, um, actually I did, honestly, I should have wrote their names and shared them here.
But, um, I wrote down some of the points they made, and I thought we could kind of kick them around a little bit.
Because, I guess, you know, for a debate, somebody has to take a pro, somebody has to take a con.
Um, when they, when the person was, um, supporting the idea of filtering, he pointed out, first of all, they, the statistics they used in this article were horrible.
You know, if you're going to use statistics, make them something that people can understand.
Right.
So, he was talking about the new Bayesian filters and how much more effective they are than the older filtering systems.
And it says that, this is what they said.
They said that they let through about two and a half spams out of a thousand, with about .5 per 1,000 false positives.
Makes sense.
Well, I can't do that kind of math in my head.
I'm from, you know, I, I went to school in the country.
We didn't get up to a thousand in our counting.
It's on a farm.
I, you know, so I, basically, let me translate that for anyone.
Why not just, ugh, you know, make everything out of a hundred, a percentage.
Right.
It's easy and simple.
So, converting that, basically what they're saying is that one out of every 400 spams get through.
So, it blocks 399, and one spam slips through.
And, at the same time, the more dangerous thing, the thing that people worry about more often is if you accidentally block out legitimate email.
Right. False positive.
Right.
And this one is basically said, he's saying statistics are about one in every 2,000 valid emails gets blocked as though it was spam.
So, you lose one out of 2,000.
Right.
So, for stopping, you know, 399 out of 400, you got that risk of losing one out of 2,000.
Is that, are those acceptable losses or do you have, you know, I, I still find that I, people say they sent me an email and I never got it.
Is that being filtered out, do you think?
Possibly.
Do you know if your email service uses Bayesian filters?
Hmm.
Um.
Find that out.
Yeah.
I, you know, I, I hate spam just like everybody else.
Well, you know what, maybe you should go on before we comment.
Okay.
All right.
A couple more points on the pro filter.
We'll do it like that.
We'll hit the pro filter, then the pro law.
Yeah.
Um.
Another thing about the pro filtering is that even if you block on client side or server side, even if you block those email, they still traveled to get to that block.
So they left whatever, you know, goat sex site or whatever they're sending out and, and ate, and you see, you'd be mad if they blocked that, right?
Oh, totally.
Totally.
So, but I mean, it traveled and ate up bandwidth on the ride.
So, sure, you have a filter and you can block it on the client side or server side, but it did cost, there is a cost of transmitting that mail.
And that actually sounds like an argument against filters, but what they, the debate or the argument here was that if the drop in response rates, because all of them are blocked, you know, 399 didn't get through.
Therefore, people aren't going to click through 399 of them, so the percentage is so much lower, the click-through rate will be lower, and the senders of that email will give up thinking they're not getting, because they're getting blocked, and they will stop sending that mail.
Now, to me, that seems kind of naive.
They're not going to stop.
They're going to, every time you find a way to block them, just like hackers, you know, and a lot of hackers get hired by companies like this, believe it or not.
A lot of hackers come up with these scripts and ways to work around.
Every time they try to stop it, they're going to come up with a way to circumvent it.
So, I didn't, that one I didn't think was a very strong argument.
Another one was, actually, this was an anti-law.
He was countering, you know, a lot of people say, when you're making laws, one of the concerns is, how do you stop spammers without stopping legitimate email advertising?
You know, if you're going to pass a law against spam or against advertising an email, do, aren't there people that have a right to send targeted advertising, opt-in type advertising?
And, you know, that can accidentally, probably very easily and frequently be blocked, even though they're opt-in lists and stuff like that.
Right.
You know?
I mean, is there such a thing as legitimate email advertising?
Let me ask you that.
Of course there is, if you opt-in, yeah, of course.
But you would hope, well, you would have to, boy, that's difficult.
Either you change your filters to accept that, or, guess what, you're not getting that email.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, and how do you, and that is the huge problem.
How do you determine the legitimate ones from the non-legitimate ones?
Unless you have a list of all of the opt-in spammers.
Instead of having a list of all the known spammers and blocking them, maybe you have a list of all the known valid, maybe have them register somewhere and have them on an allow list.
I don't know.
I just, you know?
Yeah.
I don't know what kind of solutions are going to come up, but that seems like a possibility.
Right.
Because, I mean, I opt-in to all the ghost sex sites I could find.
Well, I mean.
They get blocked.
How do you keep up with all those emails, though?
Because there must be a lot of those.
There is.
And it's upsetting when I don't care.
Yeah.
Well, you know, luckily, you got 399 blocked, you still get one that comes through.
That's right.
Lucky me.
And that's all you need.
They all link to each other anyway, trust me.
You know, and it's the same thing with telemarketers.
I mean, really, it is the same thing that, you know, you have the do not call list now.
Do they have a do not email list?
Is that something we should come up with?
Is that a reasonable possibility?
Or is the do not call list going to be a failure as well?
Do not call is doable.
I think a do not email would just be.
Ridiculous.
Yeah, totally.
We'll be, to say the least.
You know, and the most powerful argument on,
on filters as more effective than laws,
is that filtering works now.
There are filters out there.
With the statistics I mentioned earlier,
there are filters that work.
How long will it take?
I mean, I've ranted and bitched about the government
and how long it takes them to pass laws
and how long it takes them to get things done.
And then they do it half-assed.
They don't do it right.
I mean, how long have we been waiting on that do not call list?
You know, it's been needed for years and years.
Telemarketing has been a, it's not a recent problem.
It took them this long to evaluate it.
So how long will it take them to come up with laws
and make them work and then start applying them to people?
On the other hand, on the pro-law side,
this, this, I thought this was just a brilliant quote,
the way it was worded.
Now, I'm not saying, you know, credibility.
I just, if you think about this,
the quote that this person said, it said,
filtering is no more a solution to the spam problem
than it is to water pollution.
Now, if you think about that, filtering water,
filtering polluted water from plants and stuff like that,
they don't care about that.
They're going to keep right on polluting.
They're going to keep right on pouring chemicals
six-eyed fish and, you know, 16-legged frogs
spinning around out there with nuclear waste
if we did not have laws to back them up.
Right.
You know, so filters in that situation don't work.
And he's making the metaphor, the comparison,
that they're not going to work here.
Very good.
And like you mentioned earlier, the false positives.
False negatives, false positives.
Those are the two problems.
Yeah.
I mean, it seems, you know, I guess it sounds good.
One in 400 slip through.
You know, you delete that one.
But the one out of 2,000 valid emails gets blocked.
You know, is that, I mentioned earlier, is that acceptable losses?
That's the biggest problem that ISPs face filtering on the server side
is because as soon as they block out an email of, you know,
someone's order or someone's personal information,
a job application or an interview or, you know,
something along those lines, you know, all hell's going to break loose.
An important email could get blocked.
And it's not yet a perfect science.
Right.
Do you think maybe they could use, I don't know,
like levels of filtering like the ISP?
They use some more reliable filtering software,
meaning fewer false positives or false positives.
And, you know, so...
But it can never...
Less likely to lose, you know, a real email.
But you can never be 100% perfect.
Well, no, it would be 100%, but it'd be closer, right?
We're getting out to the sixth, you know,
you're getting out to the tail, the tail end of the bell curve there,
so you can get a better...
And even if you offered them levels,
they're always going to have to take the most conservative one.
Right, well...
Always, so...
Right, well, that's what I'm saying.
Make sure, even more so, right?
So maybe they let a little more spam through,
but again, they're letting a lot...
You know, you're not getting so many false positives.
And then more restrictive filtering, you know, at the enterprise side.
I don't know.
You know, it's just a thought.
Levels of filtering, maybe.
Well, it's definitely going to evolve.
I know this is spam, you know, further into the infrastructure.
I don't know.
Well, you know, I can tell you, where I work, we had filters on,
and we had complaints of people who were not getting valid, legitimate email,
or so they say, and they had to take it off.
No problem.
You know?
And we are using, you know, this fairly recent up-to-date filtering software,
and it still doesn't do the job well enough for us, so...
Gary.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, it's going to evolve, and it's going to get better.
We know that.
You know, of course, it has to.
It has to.
Right.
Here's another.
This is one of the stronger points also.
Bottom line, it costs money for filters.
It costs money to filter out that mail.
Like I said, it does take up bandwidth.
Even if you filter it out at the server or client side, it's going to eat up bandwidth.
That costs money.
Software to buy software for your company.
You're buying site license for X number of users.
That costs a lot of money.
Well, implementing laws is not free.
Well, that's a good point.
It's a very good point.
So, which, you know, and that's the whole point, really, of the debate.
Which is the better way to go?
Do you, you know, do you burden the companies, the individual people?
Should I, okay, should you, dual parallel, as a user at home,
have to buy your own $30 or $40, whatever, if it's that cheap, personal filter?
If I want to continue to use one email address forever, yeah.
Then, does that sound right to you?
Uh...
And that's just for an individual.
What about, what if you owned an ISP?
Now, that's different.
Yeah, there's a different story.
Right.
For an individual, you don't touch it.
Get another email address.
That's what I say.
Right.
There are solutions for individuals.
I have, what is it, CloudNet, CloudMark SpamNet, I think I have on mine.
And it does a pretty decent job of filtering.
It still lets quite a bit few, more than one out of 400, I have to say.
Do you have to pay for it?
Um...
Actually, gosh, I wish this was a tip I could have given a while back, but I didn't foresee
it happening.
Um...
It was beta.
And it was free.
And it was supposed to be free.
Uh-huh.
And when they finally came out with a fine...
This was early on in it when spam was a, you know, a growing problem and people were
just wanting to make solutions.
Um...
It was free.
Well, I guess it got really popular and they realized they could make a buck.
So when they finally released the official version 1.0, they started charging for it.
Good for them.
However, if you still have the beta version installed and running, every time it comes
up and says, hey, there's a new version, are you ready to upgrade?
You just say, hell no, I'll stick with the free version, thank you very much.
So I wish I could have given that advice back when they were still giving the free version
out.
I'm sure if you probably went hunting on the net somewhere, you could probably find one of
the old beta versions and it works just as well.
Really?
Is there a site that archives old software like that?
Oh, I can't remember the name.
I know there were some sites that downloaded specific, like, old versions of AOL and old
versions of...
Yeah, yeah.
But I don't know if they would have something like this.
Um, but again, you know, once something...
That's the great thing about the net.
Once it's out there, you know, I'm gonna have to break...
Damn you, you always pull out these country sayings out of me.
There's an old saying, once...
You can't put the shit back in the horse.
That's really disgusting.
Once it's out on the net, once it's been released, once it's out there, it's out there.
Actually, I'd like to correct you, you can put the shit back in the horse.
Oh, well, excuse me.
I guess if you have the proper materials.
Yeah, you're right, you're right.
You know, so...
Yeah, I'm sure if it's, you know, if you guys look for it, it's Cloudmark is the name
of the company, Cloudmark.
And I think it's called SpamNet.
So if you go look, I'm sure the company's probably Cloudmark.com or something like that, but if
you go look for some old betas, you should be able to plug those in and they should work
fine.
So, good luck with all that.
Yeah.
So, bottom line is, and we kind of already have touched on a lot of these, but basically,
I think we need both.
I don't think it is a clear either or one or the other situation.
You've got to have laws, effective laws, of course.
You don't want to just throw laws around willy-nilly that you can't enforce or do anything.
You definitely got to have laws.
I mean, do you agree with that?
Definitely not willy-nilly laws.
Well, I mean, nobody wants willy-nilly laws.
Yeah, I totally agree.
Actually, I'm glad I stopped myself.
I was going to say that at the very beginning.
We need both.
You have to have both if you're going to have any kind of effective, you know, spam denial.
Because, you know, obviously, filters aren't going to do it.
Technology is not always the answer, believe it or not.
I know that's scary.
Absolutely.
I agree with that.
Always the answer.
And I think laws, laws are going to be necessary.
I mean, because these people, I don't want to say it's malicious, but it's malicious.
It really is.
I mean, there's just no reason for it.
If you hate, like I do, and I know you do as well, Spank, if you hate telemarketing calls,
then spam is just, you know, it's just the internet's version.
That's all it is.
I kind of like telemarketing calls, actually.
Because you get to fuck with them, huh?
Yeah.
I kind of like messing with them.
Well, unfortunately, you can't.
Actually, you can do that with spam.
Or you can with those, do you see that on Slash.
Some guy just wrote out one of these Nigerian oil scams, you know, where they say, oh,
we've got all this money, and we must have put it in an account, and you would get this
much of it, you know?
Right.
Actually, a company I used to work for years and years ago, they would get hard copy letters,
actually.
I think some were handwritten, of these scams.
But now, of course, they've gotten emails a lot cheaper, and somebody played it out
and just kept going and going all the way to, you know, like, you know, this guy's name
was William Shatner, and you know, it was just unbelievable.
It was a great read.
Yeah, I think I did read, I don't know if I read all the detail, but I did read about
somebody doing that, and I think they ended up getting the FBI involved at the end and
catching the people who were sending it, at least in one case I was reading about.
I hope so.
So, yeah, you're right.
You have to have both.
Did the article say that as well?
I hope so.
No, the article, but I mean, it really wasn't an article.
It was a debate.
So, yes, one person debated this, one person debated that.
They really weren't supposed to kind of compromise, you know?
It was just, alright, it was like pros and cons.
Yeah.
It was exactly, really, they were just defending each other's ideas, so.
Right.
But, you know, there was one claim in there that I thought just sounded too low or too
off to me.
According to the article it said, or to this debate, it said that spam has grown, excuse
me, grown from less than 10% to about 40% of email.
Yeah, that's wrong.
I know.
Come on now.
I easily, it's gotta be over 50, at least over half.
There's no way that it's 10 or 40%.
I mean, 40%.
I have to say I get more bug track, I get, which I like.
I'm glad I get more.
But that's an opt-in list.
Yeah.
That's a mailing list.
Well, that's what I'm saying.
I mean, as long as it's more than my bug track, I think it's, it's, I can't say that
it's 50%.
I'm trying to, I'm trying to think of in my office.
Right.
And we send a lot of emails back and forth, you know.
Right.
And I still say, well again, I have the filters.
So if I, if I were to take the filters off, there's an, it would definitely be 75, 80%.
It shouldn't be.
Absolutely.
No joke.
I'll come in and I, I, I, what it does is it automatically moves, you can configure
it how you want.
I have it automatically move it to the deleted items.
And I'll come in after a weekend and I'll have three, 400 things in the deleted items
folder and I'll have maybe 20 or 30 legitimate emails.
Of course, over the weekend, nobody sends a lot of legitimate emails.
Right.
But, you know, yeah, it's, it's gotta be.
Crazy.
During the week even, it's probably above 60, 70%.
Can I tell you about one of my pet peeves?
Um, besides the, uh, goat sex emails being blocked?
No, that's not a peeve.
I like that.
No, seriously.
Legitimate emails that are essentially spam.
Right?
People at my work that send me shit, you know, uh, there's like a free pizza crust, you know,
six buildings over or something like that.
You know, I could give a fuck.
I'm giving away a free envelope if you'd like it.
Fuck the fuck off.
I don't want to read this shit.
You know, or the minutes from the chess club meeting.
Right?
Fuck off.
I don't want to read this shit.
Dad, Denise, spam.
That's like the worst spam.
Cause it's not gonna get filtered or stopped by law.
And I could give a rat's ass.
Okay, thanks.
Oh man, you're killing me.
Did you just say, fuck the fuck off?
What did I say?
Fuck the fuck off.
You, you managed to make 50% of the words in that sentence the F word.
That low?
You, you are my hero.
Fuck the fucking fuggers.
Huh?
This is bullshit.
Oh man.
It really makes me mad.
Well, you know who the greatest spam fighter of, of our decade right, and you know who
the biggest spam fighter right now is?
Who?
Our good friend Bill Gates.
Oh, what?
Pukes!
What are you doing?
I just wanted to say puke.
I knew you'd love that.
I didn't call me a puke.
Are you kidding me?
Bill Gates issued a letter to customers about the quote, unquote, spreading plague that
is spam.
Uh huh, uh huh.
And he says, and this, and this actually, this is kind of funny actually.
He says, like almost everyone, I receive a lot of spam every day.
Bullshit.
Much of it, well listen, much of it offering to help me get out of debt or get rich quick.
Bullshit.
Come on.
How disgustingly rich is Bill Gates?
Is that a quote from him?
That is a quote from him.
He never sees a spam in his life.
He has people to go through his email, I guarantee it.
I'm sure he uses a Hotmail account like everyone else.
He's just a regular guy.
Aw, he doesn't need Hotmail.
He has somebody give him all of his email on glossy photo paper, dude.
I'm serious.
He doesn't, he never ever...
Color.
...touch ears up, smells, or knows what a piece of spam looks like, I guarantee it.
He's got, he's got scratch and sniff email printed in high color.
Look at that, he does.
I know, that is, what a crock of shit.
Like Obi-Wan Kenobi hologram.
Joe like you.
Bullshit.
Oh.
Well, somebody, somebody, whoever reads his mail is gonna probably get spam.
So...
I guess so.
Even, even Bill Gates can't stop spam?
Is that the message here?
Or you're just not buying it?
You're not buying it at all?
He's, he wants, there, he's selling something, isn't he?
I don't know.
He's always selling something.
Where'd you get an issue?
In a letter?
This was an open, yeah, this was an open letter that he put, I don't remember what site I dug
this up on, but this was an open letter that he made available.
And, basically, the letter went on to say that Microsoft was gonna dedicate themselves
and a joint, this was, you know where it was, if you, I think we mentioned it briefly
before, but they combined with, with AOL Time Warner and Yahoo Mail and they come, they
decided to make this consortium to get together and work together and try to stop, do better
job to stop email.
Uh huh.
Okay.
So that, this was, this was just his open letter announcing that.
Okay, I thought he was gonna be pimping, you know, a new feature in the next XP or something
like that.
Yeah.
Um.
I didn't like originally.
Yeah, you know, actually, I mentioned earlier we were gonna talk about Walmart, so let's
segue back into Walmart, the RFID that we've talked about on a few different episodes.
Yeah, the meme brought some stuff up too, good stuff.
Yeah, it's, you know, they just can't make up their mind.
It's on again, off again, on again, off again.
They don't know what they're gonna do.
So the last thing I heard now, unless you've heard differently again, is that the testing
of RFID in retail customer stores is being halted again.
They are going to still test it and use it, um, for their distribution.
They're gonna put it on pallets and cases and boxes and stuff like that.
Right.
To track it through the warehouse and see how long it sits in like the individual stores
and track their inventory remotely and stuff like that.
Yeah, it has effective uses in manufacturing.
It's great for a plan.
You know where that part is, you know, as it's going through the manufacturing process.
You know how many are where.
Exactly.
It's good for inventory.
That's good.
It's not good for tracking what you eat and where you go and who you're fucking.
Right, exactly.
And you know who the big partner, um, that they were doing, one of the big, um, manufacturers
who was doing this, a weird, you would never guess this, so I'll just tell you, it was Gillette.
Gillette.
These are people, really.
Who make the razors and shaving cream and stuff like that.
They were one of the ones that are getting on this ahead of time.
I don't know why they want to track where your razor goes or whatever, but.
Are they gonna know it's shaving my balls from the RFID chip?
Yeah.
I mean, come on.
Come on now.
You use an electric razor for that.
Ouch.
Hey, man.
You wax.
I have nared.
I'm just saying I spend the better part of my day keeping sharp objects away from my scrotum.
I don't want to go down there with the razor.
I'm crying out loud.
Haven't you?
You gotta freak, if you want to be in the porno business.
Like you.
You do.
Yeah.
Shit.
You know, you gotta, you gotta be nice and clean.
I'm telling you.
Six tickets.
Gotcha.
Okay.
So, Gillette, I guess, you know, and this is, that is the concern.
It's privacy concern of tracking those items.
You know, let's say Gillette, for example.
They're gonna track that you bought their razor, I guess.
I don't know.
And because it has a little antenna on it, basically, and can be read pretty much wherever
it goes, theoretically, if the right equipment and everything is in place, the potential is
there, which is why we, you know, really need to nip it in the bud as far as tracking consumers
and stuff like that.
That's, you know.
But they can, I guess, maybe track and see how long you reuse and how many times you reuse
that disposable razor.
And maybe if you're reusing it too many times, they make it, develop it more disposable,
make it rust faster so you can't reuse it.
Find out if you're shaving your ball sack with it and develop a special bulk curve.
They're gonna make a razor with two curves so that it'll hug the ball sack.
Dude, why are you degrading my show?
It's not my fault, dude.
The sophomore humor has just gone too far.
I'm so sorry.
I know, but it's hilarious.
It's a show, and I'm sorry.
This will be the...
Yeah, like you haven't done the same thing.
This will be the highest rated episode ever.
I think people like...
Or Lois.
People like it when we make fools of ourselves.
Let's just go ahead.
I thought it was way more disposable.
That's funny.
No.
Yeah, I don't see the point.
Well, first of all, I thought it was...
Last time I heard, of course the testing was going to occur, and then they canceled it.
And that was the last I heard.
I didn't know it was back on again, and now it's off again.
I wonder why it was so wishy-washy.
Yeah, I had heard two or three different times.
Now, this is in regards to Walmart.
Now, Gillette is still going forward with this technology.
And in other countries, I don't know what outlets or what stores, but Gillette is still going through with working together with outlets in, I think it was Germany, and where else?
I don't remember.
There's a couple of European countries that they are still going through with something like this.
So, you know, again, we're borderless, and yeah, it got stopped here in the United States for now, but be careful when you shave your ball sack.
That's all I'm saying.
Right.
That's good advice besides RFID.
Yeah, you always got to be careful.
Lather up really well.
Now, honestly, I think this is more benevolent, maybe, than it sounds, because I don't think they're going to be really, like, tracking anything.
I mean, like, injecting it into your skin.
I think this is more for the manufacturing and for the quick checkout, right?
You know, the humanless checkout, essentially.
Absolutely.
That's what I think this is for.
Yeah, but I mean, again, if you go home and you got this antenna on your can of green beans...
Yeah, exactly.
You know, you open it, throw it away, and you know, it's gone.
But, you know, what if they put this on your favorite goat sex porn movie?
Right.
Do you really want that tracked back to your house?
Right, yeah.
You know?
I mean, we're being silly now, and that's a silly...
But the potential for abuse is just too high.
It's just too scary of a thought.
They're going to, you know, what if they put one in every magazine subscription you have?
What if they put one in your medicine, and they know where your medicine goes, and how often, you know, if you're giving it to someone else, or if you're leaving it somewhere, and how can they make it?
You know, there's just...
Right.
Something private like that doesn't need to be out there for everyone to find out about.
I agree.
You know, you've got to think of it, though.
You know, to get a pattern, you're going to need to track one RFID at separate spots, basically.
The one RFID chip.
So, that's how they can track a dog, you know, a person.
You've got the one chip, and you're scanning in numerous places.
That's how you get the pattern.
So, honestly, if you've got a bunch of chips, and you're only scanning in one place, that's where it comes in.
Yeah, you know what this is good for?
This is the best application for this.
I have a cat.
And my cat, when I got the cat from the Humane Society, somebody didn't want it anymore, so I picked the cat up, and they tattooed the cat with this little code on the bottom of it.
Sure.
And in case the cat gets lost, they call an 800 number, they give it a tattoo, and they find out who it's registered to.
Well, a friend of mine bought his cat about a year ago, and his cat came with an RFID tag thing surgically embedded under the thing's skin.
Wow.
They can track the cat if it ever gets away, if they ever want to find your pet, find your animal, you can track it.
Whether you put it under your skin, that seems a little, they say it's safe or whatever, I don't know.
Not going to debate about that, but that's a good concept, a good idea.
Put that on the collar, you know, if nothing else, that you can track your animals.
But human beings are not animals to be tracked like that.
I agree.
You know?
Subcutaneous layers, though.
Yeah, I agree.
I agree.
And we'll, you know, honestly, you're going to get dumb parents who have been brainwashed and, you know, who have had fear instilled upon them doing their kids.
That's what's going to happen.
And then you're going to have a bunch of teenagers, you know, or a bunch of adults, I should say, get them removed.
We'll see what happens.
Only the future will tell, you know.
And honestly, we're going to see, we're going to see all this crazy shit, you know, before we pass on.
Well, yeah.
We will see.
I don't know.
Okay, let's, let's, let's predict something.
Let's go to, you know, take Minority Report.
Will we see Minority Report in our lifetime?
Well, I haven't seen Minority Report, so I wouldn't know.
Oh, well, yeah.
I, you know, in a, in a, in a scary way, it's a good movie.
There's product placement in there just like anything else.
But, I do think that we will see, we will see very similar technology and very similar tactics before we pass on.
It's, it's a worthwhile movie just for that look.
Just for that look.
Yeah, I'll have to check that one out.
Yeah.
I've been, I've been meaning to.
I've heard good things about it.
You know, there was also, I think somebody put an article in the forums about putting tags in like some video game.
You give your kid the video game and, you know, they play those all the time.
They have it with them in their pocket.
And, secretly, it has a little tracking device so you know where your kids are at.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, you know, that's, that's kind of, you know, I don't know.
DPS Game Boy.
Yeah, I remember that.
Yeah.
Um, you know what, we're, we're running short here, but.
Big time.
In honor of you, I think we should do a little quick freak note.
Wait, where's my, oh no, I'm going to pull a duel.
I'm going to pull a duel.
I don't have my tones.
Oh, hold on.
Let me look.
Uh-huh.
See, when you're on my show, you have them.
Don't have them on mine, but I got them on yours.
Here we go.
The first ever BinRev Freak News.
Nice, dude.
Actually, yeah, let me, I'll throw this quick one on you and see what you think about this.
Okay.
My, because I know how much you like Quest.
Love it.
You know, you like Quest as much as I like Bell South.
Bell South, which is who I get my DSL service from, 50 bucks a month.
Which is actually 45 for the DSL and then five bucks for the account.
I don't know if yours breaks down or how other people's break down.
But for that, I get 1.5 megabit per second download, theoretically.
And 256 upstream, which you'd think would be enough to stream the show, but I don't know
what's going on with that, but I digress.
And I actually, honestly, I do get, I don't always get 1.5.
I can get upwards of 1.4 on certain nights, you know, depending on what's going on and
weather and stuff like that.
But I'm consistently between 1 and 1.4, so I'm fairly happy, I have to admit.
Wish it was cheaper.
They're the, they're the highest, they have the highest saturation of DSL.
They have the highest percentage of customer use of DSL.
Yet, ironically, they're the highest priced DSL of all the telcos.
Everyone else has 35, 40, 45 dollar total DSL bill and theirs is 50.
So, but they ironically have the highest percentage of users.
They rolled it out pretty quick down here.
They got it in a lot of places, so I guess they jumped on it soon enough that made that happen.
Well, now they're offering what they're calling DSL Lite.
To me, it seems, for a user like me, I should say, it's pretty silly.
Basically, for $35 a month, 15 bucks less than full-blown DSL.
For 35 bucks a month, you can get a 256k download and a 128k upload.
For 35 bucks?
35 bucks, 256 down, 128 up.
Yeah.
Well, you know, and that's what I thought of.
I'm like, what the hell?
That's stupid.
Who would buy, you know?
It is faster, obviously, than a 56k modem.
You know, what, five times faster?
Yeah.
So, it's a lot faster than a modem.
The reason I think this might actually be successful is because, like, a friend of mine, he has a cable modem.
They didn't have DSL in his neighborhood yet.
Well, he has a cable modem and what he has to do is the cable modem still needs a phone line for upload.
It's download only, at least the way his is.
Ugh.
So, he has to pay 20-something dollars a month for an extra phone line so it doesn't tie up his regular phone.
So, when you're already paying 25 a month for that, plus he's paying whatever the bandwidth he pays for the cable modem,
which he is not happy with the performance of it.
I forgot what company he has.
So, for someone like him, 35 bucks a month is actually going to save him a lot.
He's going to cancel that second phone line because DSL piggybacks on your current phone line.
So, he's going to save that 20-25 a month plus fees, taxes, and other assorted butt fucks they give you.
And, he's going to get rid of the cable modem service and he's going to have this for 35 a month.
Or, hell, even if he goes full-blown 50 bucks a month, he's still better off now, I think.
So, I think people who have a second phone line in the house, which I did.
I didn't want to tie up my normal phone line.
So, I had a second phone line in my 56K modem back in the day before I got the DSL going.
And, that was how I justified going to 50 bucks a month.
You know, I'm not a rich guy, but I was paying 25, basically 30 bucks after fees and everything for the phone line.
And, then you pay, you know, 20 bucks or whatever.
You can get, of course, cheaper ISPs, but you pay an average of 20 bucks.
That's 50 bucks right there.
So, for the same price, you're upgraded to big-time bandwidth.
So, I think people who have that second phone line, it could possibly be a good deal for them
if they don't want to go to the full-blown DSL or don't need it.
Sure, it's a good deal if you've got those screwy deals that your buddy has.
A phone line for your upload? Your cable?
That's the whole point of cable.
I know. I never got that either, but he's not the only one of the first one I've heard about.
If everybody's getting screwed like that, I could see where that'd be a good deal.
Otherwise, I would pay 25, 30 bucks for that.
Tops. 30 bucks tops for that service.
Yeah.
For what we have.
Yeah.
I'd say 25 would be fair.
It's going to be a market.
Yeah, I'd say 25 would be fair.
Yeah.
But, honestly, if people were getting screwed like that, I could see where they're just,
they're dying to roll this out.
Right.
It's like, oh, it's like heaven for them.
I mean, that's a bunch of crap.
Yeah.
And we've talked about before, I mean, I have DSL.
I've never used cable, so I probably shouldn't pass judgment.
But from what I've read, it just doesn't seem to be, it seems to be an inferior product.
It doesn't seem to have the same thing.
You can get as high as two gigabytes, or excuse me, yeah, two megabytes per second download
as opposed to 1.5.
Well, they cap it.
But I've heard that's very rare.
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
You're talking about cable, right?
I'm saying cable versus DSL.
Well, they cap it.
The classic argument that people have had for years is cable or DSL, which one's better?
Well, all I know is cable kicks ass.
It kicks ass.
Your cable is good?
Oh, yeah.
And you get a good, consistent download?
Always.
And you don't have to use a separate phone line for your upload?
No.
So it sounds like you've got a good cable provider that did it right.
Yeah, at a good price, too.
So, yeah.
Yeah, it rocks.
So, I'm sure DSL's a good deal as well.
Well, I don't have a choice.
My cable company sucks dog ass.
That's just it.
I do.
Maybe that's why.
Yeah, so, you know, I don't have an option.
If I had an option to try it and check it out, I would definitely give it a shot.
Because, again, the only reason I have DSL, the only reason I have the phone line is for my DSL.
I would cut it off and just use my cell phone.
Right.
But if you don't have a phone line to your house, you can't get DSL.
If I had the option of a cable modem, I would be so quick to jump on it if it gave me the good download.
Because I could get rid of the phone line.
I could get rid of the DSL.
That would save me, you know, 80 bucks a month.
That'd be nice.
You know, and go to the $40 or $50 a month cable.
That would be phenomenal.
Yeah, it adds up.
It definitely adds up.
Yeah, it sure does.
The only reason I have the landline?
Radio Freak Mayor.
That's right.
It's all for you.
All right.
Did you have anything for the first ever Binary Revolution Freak News?
Or are we kidding?
Yeah, briefly.
And this is actually time sensitive, so this is perfect timing.
MCI faces federal fraud inquiry on fees for long distance calls.
That's right, an inquiry into MCI's dealings, even more so, right?
You know about their accounting fraud, the biggest scandal ever.
What is that, $750 million or something like that they were fined?
I don't know, man.
MCI is good people.
Yeah.
That's a joke, right?
Yeah.
Okay, good.
That was a good delay, huh?
That was nice.
Yeah, I was like, uh, yes.
Apparently, they've been routing calls, making long distance calls look like local calls
so they don't have to pay the access fees naturally.
Did you know that Quest provides a long distance for Bell South on their pay funds?
I did not know that.
Well, now you do.
Well, they've been, uh, apparently they've been doing this for a long time, like since
the early to mid-90s.
And, uh, I don't know why this, uh, inquiry is just occurring now.
Apparently, I think, uh, their, uh, competitors have been bringing shit up, uh, Verizon, SBC,
and AT&T.
Um, apparently, some customers had been, uh, some, uh, I think it was AT&T customers would
complain that they would, uh, they'd be getting calls, but they would show up as local calls
and not long distance calls, and they'd be pissed.
So that, uh, that brought it to the, uh, the Fed's attention.
Uh, I can't wait to see what comes out of this.
I'm sure it's going to take a while, but, uh, this is just great stuff.
A long while.
I mean, illegally routing calls, so they don't have to pay the access fees.
I think they pay, they pay billions of dollars every year in access fees, right?
Fees to the local exchange carriers to, uh, let that long distance calls go through.
And they, this is for hundreds of millions, I think.
So, actually, not that much.
Well, that's still a lot of money.
That's a lot of money.
Compared to, you know, tens of billions of dollars.
Um, yeah, yeah, it is.
It's still a lot of money.
Otherwise, they wouldn't be doing all this stuff.
Yeah, and this is a long, actually, I got the article from the New York Times.
I think I saw it on Slash.com.
I got the one from the New York Times.
There's actually, uh, a multicolor fish wrap today, I believe.
That's the USA Today, it's you and me.
Uh, they had a short blurb about it, of course.
But, uh, very good news.
And this just came out, did it come out Sunday?
What is today?
Today's Monday.
Yeah, yesterday.
It came out yesterday.
Sunday, so.
Good read, definitely.
Good stuff.
Thought you'd love it.
You know, how long is it going to take up before we see any action from that and...
Yeah, no, I don't know.
I mean, how can they even exist anymore after all this shit?
You know?
I mean...
Government subsidies.
All they're going to do is increase our taxes to help pay for it.
Yeah, you're just, you're so fucked all the way around.
Goodbye.
Yeah.
Liquidation, baby.
It's just so messed up.
But it's, you know, it's too big.
It's too huge.
And another one will just take their place just as bad.
Yeah, probably.
Probably.
Ooh, what is this?
It caught my eye.
The main scheme of avoiding access charges was referred to in company documents variously
as Project Invader and Project Scorpion, according to former technicians at the company.
In statements provided to investigators, they described the enormous pressure they faced
to reduce access fees.
Oh, this is great.
Oh, I've got to read this whole thing.
I haven't read it all, so I'm guilty as charged.
But this is going to be good, good stuff, good reading, and good drama.
Unbelievable.
Wow, I tell you what, man, they better get the shredders fired up and ready.
Ooh, boy.
Start cleaning out some emails.
I think, yeah, apparently some old employees gave some information.
They had to have.
I mean, you have to have some information like that.
Good shit.
Dude, that's cool.
All right, man.
Close out the freak news.
Freak news.
All right.
Did that come through okay?
Yeah, it came through good.
I've got to apologize for bringing your show down to my level.
Ah, please.
It was the funnest show.
Yeah.
If you've got to have fun every once in a while, it'll probably be...
We covered a lot of good topics and had some actually pretty deep stuff.
I mean, we make fun and joke while we do it, but I think that's what...
I don't know if that's what the people like.
That's what I like doing, you know?
It makes it fun.
I like to laugh and have fun while we're doing it and make fun of people.
And it helps get the point across.
You can either rant and get on the soapbox and pound the Bible and try to throw it,
or you can make fun of them and show how ridiculous these things are that these people are doing.
And that's what they are.
They are fucking ridiculous.
And there's nothing wrong with saying that they are fucking, fucking, fucking, fucking ridiculous sometimes.
How many was that?
I don't know.
If you want to hear effing ridiculous, thank you.
You should listen to the next RFA.
You know what?
I'm kind of looking forward.
I'm already getting geared up.
I'm getting red in the face and hot now because I know...
You know what?
Let's give...
I'm going to give the listeners a warning.
RFA this week, if you have earmuffs, earphones, ear protectors, put some wax, don't clean your ears,
because it could get really loud and really messy.
Oh, it's going to be awesome.
It's going to be me...
I will tell them.
It's going to be me, you, and Bland.
We've got some good shit to talk about.
Oh.
Very good shit.
Yeah, well, let's...
It was a great show.
Can I tell you that you made me think on this show.
I mean...
And you know, and I'm not good at thinking.
You made me think.
I mean...
Oh, shut up.
Think deep, long, and hard.
Oh, you know I'm going to use deep, long, and hard.
Okay.
All right, that's enough.
Oh, no, we did.
Like I said, we had fun, we covered some serious topics, and you know...
Yes.
Good show.
I guess we've got to close up, close the bag up there, close the freak nose up, and you
know, I say it at the end of every show, if you've got feedback, you've got something
like, didn't like you, we say fuck too much, you know, send a letter to fuck you...
I'm sorry, send a letter to letters at binrev.com, and tell us...
Oh, send a letter to...
How about a nice...
We really...
You know, honestly, joking aside, I mean, we really should...
We should...
Let's have a contest or something.
Maybe that's what we need to motivate us.
Let's try to see who's going to stop using it.
We need one of those jars where we put a dollar into it every time we say the F word.
Whatever.
Because I tried it last...
Did you listen to the last episode?
I tried.
Did you really?
I tried.
I made it...
I said it a couple times at the beginning, and then I said I'm going to try to make it
through the episode.
I don't remember if I did or not.
I don't think I made it without saying it.
I don't remember.
Honestly, naturally, I usually...
I think I usually don't.
Honestly, I don't...
I usually don't think about it, and if it happens, it happens.
If I'm pissed off, sometimes it does, you know.
Well, yeah.
These things, they piss you off.
They really do.
And, you know, I guess we should also warn them for this Wednesday's RFA, because you're
going to hear it from me.
I guarantee you.
And that's just fine.
Before we end, I want to end on this.
I want to thank you for making another show.
Oh, please.
I wouldn't be here without you.
You know that.
Let's quit blowing smoke up each other's ass.
It was great having you on.
I like having you on.
We have fun.
My C++ homework, I had something good to listen to, and I appreciate it.
Well, I have fun doing it, and I wouldn't be here without your help and streaming and
everything.
And speaking of something to listen to, we're going to end today's show with Ill Skills,
a track named Platinum, from mp3.com.
Check him out.
Right on.
Anyway, you know how we end it.
We'll see everybody next time, Same Hack Time.
That's your cue.
Same Hack Channel.
You almost tried to screw me out late.
Oh, score later.
You have to kitchen table
And someone in the middle of my ear, about rattling and filling and cutting them out.
See my little couts that you haven't done.
Take care, take care.
That's a good thing.
Thank you.