Welcome to the next generation of Hacking Information Exchange with StankDawg and Wintermute.
I see in binary, I speak source code. Step on my toes, I'll post a million game pegs of you in a fag pose. In your digital stance, getting firewalled ho. Cause I'm riding the net in my six foe. I was a dick with my 56. Now with my cable, I'm able to get that stable. On the out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo. On the digital highway, my name is Neo and I'm a hero. In a flash, I'll school you on burning dream cats. You need some ISOs? Let me through my hard drive rifle.
Our exchange, you could never stifle. In a digital hug, you just caught the love bug. I bootlegged your CD. I caused the fight between Un and Jay-Z. Your CG, it's all gonna be free. Whether we take it by force or we take it nicely. You feel that rattle in your bones? When I tell you we just hacked out Jones. And NASDAQ leaves you flat on your back. Cause I am he who loves to hack and crack. Cause I am he who loves to hack and crack.
This is dedicated to the hackers and criminals. Serial phones, source codes, ISOs, RANs, SIFs, SIFs. This is dedicated to the hackers and crack.
And we are back. Binary Revolution Radio, or BinRev Radio as we like to call it. Episode number nine.
That's a niner there.
And as you heard, we have our regular co-host back on the show. So say hello to the people.
I am dual parallel.
In the house.
In the house. I love women.
Oh, wait a minute. You can't be dual parallel then.
Oh, no.
Oh, he's gonna kill me for that one, isn't he?
No, I'm the world famous Wintermute.
In the house. You see, we stole that from you. We're using that for everybody now.
In the house.
All right. So, oh, crap. You know what? I'm gonna click the timer on right now. It's bad radio to let everybody tell them that I'm timing the show.
I'll give them some, uh, intermission music.
Boop. Boop. Boop. Boop. Boop. Boop. Boop. Boop. Boop. Boop. Boop.
That sounds like The Price is Right or something.
No, no, no. It's some bad elevator.
Ah. All right. Um, you know, I have quite a bit. You know, this might be another one of those episodes where it's just you and I talking about a lot of stuff we've done since it's been a while.
What are the best?
Yeah. I, actually, I like them. I mean, regurgitating news is kind of, I don't know, it's kind of fun sometimes to add to it, but, um, we've got a lot of stuff to talk about today.
Um, I'm gonna jump right in the housekeeping portion of the show, um, which is normally where I talk about email, stuff like that.
Well, actually, this week, what I wanted to talk about is I did a little digging.
Turning into Nick.
Huh? Yeah, I turned into a log dog.
I started digging through my, uh, uh, HTTP logs, my Apache logs, just to see what was going on.
I got a strange, not a strange hit, a few strange hits from club1.whitehouse.gov.
Hmm?
I have no idea what club1, C-L-U-B and the number 1.whitehouse.gov.
Now, I can't get to the site, you know, there's no, uh, web server or anything on it, so I have no idea who, what, or why club1.whitehouse.gov is visiting.
But, hey, welcome aboard, um, don't know what you're looking for, and I did not dig through it, um, to see what exactly they were getting.
But, um, I did get a few visits from them, and I thought, what the hell is that all about?
So, if that's you, by all means, drop me an email, letters at binrev.com, tell me what you're looking for.
Maybe I can help you out.
I also noticed some visits from Tech TV.
Hmm.
Which I don't even freaking get, because my cable sucks, but we won't go there.
Um, we got some visits from Tech TV forums, and so I'm going to, I'm going to give a shout out or a thank you to Sezrun,
who apparently mentioned our site over in the forums at Tech TV, so we got a couple hits from them coming over, so that's very, very cool.
And, the same thing, I noticed some hits from groups.google.com.
And, Google, as everybody, I'm sure, knows Google, they also have a news group archive,
where you can go search through the, in NTP, you can go search through your news groups,
and, um, I noticed I was getting hits from the site.
Now, of course, you wouldn't notice hits from a news group itself, per se,
but if you travel through Google Groups to get to the news groups,
or if you click through Google Groups, the site, it does show up as a link.
So, um, someone was pimping the show in the news group world, so, didn't even really think about that,
but yes, by all means, go out there and spread the word in the news group, spread it on other forums, etc.,
anytime it's appropriate, of course.
We don't want to go spam everybody, but, you know, if you're getting a chance to spread the word, spread the message,
by all means, go do that, so...
I think, I don't even think we should even go spamming.
No, no.
If I start getting a telemarketer phone call, saying, listen to FinRiv Radio, oh, that's the end of it.
Hmm. You know, we would be some pretty evil telemarketers if we did that.
Speaking of telemarketing...
Of course, all telemarketers are evil, but go ahead.
If you haven't signed up for the Do Not Call List, you're listening to this show on the Tuesday,
which would be the 2nd of September, too bad, you've been locked out.
What do you mean, locked out?
Well, when we're taping this, it's Sunday.
Uh-huh.
At midnight tonight is the lockout for the Do Not Call List.
Well, what do you mean, lockout?
They're not going to update the list for some amount of time.
Oh, I think this may be the first deadline as far as getting your name on the list.
I think they do it...
Are they doing it quarterly or something like that?
Yeah, but this is for a little... for some time.
Hmm.
So, unless you like being, uh, buying, or, uh, you like talking to very strange people on the phone.
Well, but like you said, by the time we air, it's going to be too late.
Too late? Well, sucks. Sharks.
Great. Good job. Thanks for reminding everybody last week.
Yeah. Well, hey.
Now, they can still sign up for it, correct? I think the website will be there.
It's just, you won't get applied to the global list.
You won't be put on that big list for three, four months, or however long before they do the next batch process, you know?
Good, exactly.
Hmm.
Uh, yeah, anyway, um, so, I know who posted that out to Google Groups, so, um, Kleptic, thanks a lot for that.
I saw who it was posted under, and I assumed that was you.
So, um, thanks for spreading the word, everybody.
And speaking of pimping, um, Gamer, Games and More Entertainment Radio, they pimped us on their last show, so everybody check them out, www.hwhq.com.
Go check out Gamer Radio.
Gamer Radio is back from his hellacious road trip.
I still, it's a shame we couldn't hook up when he came down here, but c'est la vie, I guess.
But definitely go check out the show.
Um, and, you know, the other thing I wanted to mention, which just blew my mind, Mute.
You know, Hack TV, one of our projects that's been long, long going, long overdue.
I finally put up a pilot episode.
Finally was able to work with Psy2, and getting some of the, uh, graphics together, getting some of the, um, the video working and everything.
And, um, when I say working with, I mean he finally did it.
I really didn't do a whole lot with it, other than some advice and ideas.
But, I put that up.
It's just, again, I've mentioned before, it's just some of the videos we've already made public.
And I put it up just as a sampler, a teaser, just to let people know what was up.
And it just absolutely blew my mind how many hits that got.
Um, the only place I've mentioned it is on the show, on the shows, over on RFA, of course we've been mentioning it, in the forums.
I really haven't mentioned it anywhere outside of those, those two places.
Because, A, I've never had the opportunity.
And, B, it's way, way too soon.
And I don't like to announce stuff until it's ready or out.
You know, so I don't like to commit and get people's hopes up, even though I was real bad about it on Hack TV.
So, um, I haven't mentioned it anywhere, yet that got more hits than BinRev Radio.
So, we're not only getting people who listen to the show and know about it, downloading it, and people from the forums, but it had easily more people than I could account for.
So, I'm a little confused.
I don't know where a lot of those hits are coming from.
I might have to investigate it.
But, it's very cool that there is interest in it.
I had no idea that there was going to be that much interest in Hack TV.
I knew it would be a little bit.
I thought it would be like a little niche thing, a little underground kind of deal.
But, it was a lot of hits that I wasn't expecting.
So, that, I thought, was really, really cool.
So, it kind of gets me rededicated to try to get some stuff done.
Now, I am going to do a lot of filming this week.
I've already planned on it.
I already got some ideas in mind.
Mute, you and I have talked about some things, and Duel, and we're all going to be working on filming here over the next couple of weeks.
Now that we've got the ideas out, we've got the tech part of it done.
So, definitely moving forward.
So, I'm happy about that.
Now, Mute.
Actually, why don't we jump to you because we had a follow-up.
I had a follow-up question I wanted you to follow up on from last week.
I made an email from Total Blackout last week.
About our part 15 idea.
Uh-oh.
I had an email that was questioning whether building a device that would block RFID frequencies was, in and of itself, illegal because it would cause interference.
So, I'm not sure that I interpret the rule correctly.
So, I was wondering if you could explain, is the act of building a RFID blocker, a personal RFID blocker, is that illegal?
And could you kind of re-go over that and simplify it so that it's clearly what can and can't be done?
Well, basically that bandwidth, that range, is unlicensed.
So, anyone can believe, now, no lawsuits pending here, but you can do what you want with it.
And, well, that being said, there is also a limit to what you can do.
You can't go over a certain amount of wattage.
I believe that's one watt.
So, you can intentionally cause interference?
I guess that's the question, as long as it's under one watt?
Yes.
Well, it slides into a story that kind of proves or backs up my theory, is that a company, RSA Security, I believe.
Cha-ching.
Cha-ching-ching is going to start producing RFID blockers.
Now, if they're going to produce it, and they've said they're going to produce it, well, it kind of has to be legal.
So, yes, by them producing something, it is legal for someone to make that.
And, you know, the interesting, let me, here's the actual headline.
It says, the labs at RSA Security on Wednesday, this was Wednesday of last week,
on outlined plans for a technology they call blocker tags, which are similar in size and cost to radio frequency identification, RFID tags,
but disrupt the transmission of information to scanning devices and thwart the collection of data.
Blocker, okay, now, first of all, that was Wednesday of last week.
Our show aired Tuesday of last week.
Now, I'm not saying anything.
Uh-oh.
I'm not hinting at anything.
I'm just saying coincidence.
Anyway, the other part of this that I thought was kind of amazing or interesting was,
they go on and it says, blocker and RFID tags are about the size of a grain of sand and cost around 10 cents.
Dude, sign me up.
10 cents to protect my privacy?
I'll, hey, I'll go ahead and chip in for all of DDP.
Not a problem, man.
I'll put that on my tab.
I'll buy one for each of you.
Aren't I generous?
Oh, totally, dude.
10 cents is what it costs to protect your privacy from these things.
I think that's, now, that's what it costs to make and manufacture.
They'll probably end up selling them for, what, 20 bucks or something?
Oh, yeah.
Something stupid like that.
So, still, finding out how to make your own and possibly us doing that.
Screw the RSA labs.
Embed these into other things such as watches or really anything they wanted to.
Yeah, every time you buy a watch, you're going to have to come home and pry out the freaking privacy detector tag so you can get around freely.
It's like, I think, pretty soon, you're going to see, like, a few years, maybe, if this ever goes anywhere.
You'll have, like, a little symbol on the side that says RFID protected or something.
RFID inside, like the Intel inside logo.
Yeah, we'll have both, like, this is armed with an RFID device, and it's also blocked in RFID.
What a coincidence.
Yeah.
What an irony.
You know, actually, this is the kind of thing.
I'm going to segue into, I don't know if I mentioned this on the show, actually, so if this is a recap, then I guess, sorry.
But I signed up for a class this semester.
I don't even know if I told you this yet, Mute.
As everybody knows, I've graduated.
There's no, you know, I'm not really going back to school for anything other than knowledge.
And there was a class listed this semester that caught my interest, so I signed up for it.
I'm not getting much credit for it.
I'm getting credit, but it's not going to count towards anything.
It's pretty much just going to learn.
And the class that drew me back is called Cyber Law.
So, Cyber Law is kind of a new development, a new thing, obviously, because we have so many conflicts between old existing laws.
But in the new world, in the, in the, the, I hate the word cyber in general.
But in the cyber world, that they're kind of branching off and trying to study laws and how laws should be changed and stuff to account for the internet and other online.
And, well, not just online, but technology in general.
So, this is something that interests me.
So, I signed up for this.
So, every Wednesday night, I'm taking this class.
So, if people are interested, I can start bringing some of the stories and the stuff we talk about in class and bring them up on the show.
So, if anybody's interested in hearing some of that stuff, obviously, this is a three hours a week class.
It's going to be way too much for us to talk about on a one hour a week show.
But I can probably summarize, bring up some interesting points and topics to consider.
But if you, if that sounds interesting, post that in the forums or email me and tell me.
And I will start bringing my notes and textbook and stuff home.
And we'll talk about some of this on the show each week.
Then when you get up to ask a question, the teacher will say, wait a minute, I know that voice.
Yeah, exactly.
I know you, dammit.
Aren't you the binary revolution guy?
I'll say, no, no, no, that's winter mute.
That's not me.
No, no, no, no.
That's dual parallel.
You know, one thing, this was the first class last week.
So, you don't, you know, basically it was a lot of overview, a lot of topics we're going to cover in general terms.
We didn't go into a lot of detail.
But the one thing that just smacked me in the face that I was reminded of about lawyers and is the fact that lawyers,
lawyers are, in my opinion, of course, way too far removed from ethics.
I really, really, really think they need to emphasize ethics more in the law community and law school and in general.
You know, and there are, don't get me wrong, there are good lawyers.
I know some good lawyers.
But there are an overwhelmingly large number of bad lawyers, ambulance chasers, anybody trying to turn a buck.
And it's those lawyers that unfortunately give everyone else a bad name.
And I guess it's probably the same with police.
A lot of people hate police because there's, you know, there's quite a few out there that are, you know, not good cops.
Let's put it that way.
But there are also some good ones mixed in.
So anyway, I digress on that.
But going back to this class, it just kind of smacked me in the face the way they talked about things.
And they only talked about the legalities of some of these things.
And they didn't mention right or wrong.
And, again, I'm not going to go into too much detail.
Let's see if anybody's interested first and maybe we can bring this up on a later show.
But one quick example was, you know, they mentioned how to, well, it was talk about where laws could be prosecuted,
where they could be, who would be in charge of prosecuting or the legal aspect of anything online.
And the term is jurisdiction.
Who has jurisdiction in an online world?
And trying to define that.
And the name Napster immediately came up, of course, even though they're long gone.
But they used that and they used some of the other file sharing and explained, you know,
where does jurisdiction come into play if you, a person in, I don't know, New York,
download a file from someone in California through a server that's located in Norway, etc., etc., etc.
So that was one of the first things that was, again, it was general.
We didn't get into detail.
They don't have answers.
But it was discussed where this falls.
Well, the instructor, a very nice lady, actually, you know, came out and said that from the legal aspect of it,
there is some definitions, and we're going to go into them over the semester,
but the ethical matter of us infringing, or not infringing, of us forcing our laws and our thoughts to overseas and other people
about how legally we can and will pursue stuff like that because of our copyright laws in this country.
And the consideration of ethics or respect or whatever you want to call it to other countries really has no bearing in the mind of the law.
And I thought that was pretty sad.
I mean, ethics, I mean, she kind of admitted that, you know, if someone from overseas or you download from someone from overseas or vice versa,
there's that gray area.
You're not technically, you know, you can't enforce the laws on them.
But as far as a lawyer is concerned, yes, they will sue that person.
They will go through whatever it takes and try to enforce these laws because by the letter of the law,
they may have loopholes or tricks that they can get them, even though they may not rightfully have an ethical reason to do it.
So, anyway, that just kind of, you know, not upset me, but I had forgotten since it's been a while since I had some law classes.
That's kind of interesting because just today, I think today or yesterday,
Charmin Networks, a la Kazaa, has just popped back in the news like they've ever really left the news.
Yeah, but they're asked that Google, Google, our best friend, to block the search of Kazaa Lite.
Yeah, I saw that headline.
Did they?
I did try searching it.
And you'll still get the software.
I mean, you're not going to stop it.
There's like the second hyperlink is a place to download it.
You're not going to stop that.
But at the bottom of the page, it just says, this search has been filtered because of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act.
See, that's just pathetic.
If that's not an invasion of, I don't even want to, you know what?
It's an invasion of privacy.
We're not an invasion of privacy, but it's just like over the main ground.
First Amendment.
Hello.
It's ironic because, first of all, they're only doing this because they're supposed to be really soon rolling out with a legal version or a paid version.
They're trying to stop these people over here.
They're all about free media and everything, but they're going to stop these people over here from making a cooler version.
What's going on?
You know, they're going to try to stop.
And that's what they, I still am amazed that they haven't realized this yet.
They haven't realized it since Napster, which is years ago.
They are not going to stop peer-to-peer file sharing.
Go back and listen to RFA.
Listen to Radio Freak America back when I first started, I don't know how long ago, and I've said this all along.
You will not stop peer-to-peer file sharing ever, ever, ever.
Mark my words, this day in history, you will never stop it.
For every one you kill, five shall stand in its wake.
You will not stop it.
Aye, aye, aye.
Because whatever, you could kill the Internet.
People are going to still burn CDs.
It's...
And nail them.
The Internet's not going anywhere.
Yeah, obviously, but yeah, as an example.
Right.
No, it's just, you know, people just are not...
And, you know, this is one of the reasons that we, that I love the name Binary Revolution.
We are not standing for the limitations that you guys are going to try to force on us.
When I say you guys, I mean the legal community, the government, stuff like that.
You're going to try to put these things in looking out for the interests of big businesses
instead of looking out for the interests of the people.
Well, guess what?
We, the people, say, fuck you.
Damn it.
Damn it, I used the F word.
Well, you know what?
I do say that.
Fuck you.
I do.
We are going to take this world and keep this world for ourselves.
The cyber world, which again, I hate that world, is ours.
We created it.
We made it what it was.
Well, us and all the pornographers.
But, you know, still, I'm not about to roll over and let the online community be pulled down
and dragged down the same way as the real world community.
Anyway, I'm going to get off soapbox.
Let's go back to something tech.
Interzone.
Yeah, Interzone, actually.
I mentioned this last week.
And I've been communicating with Rocket about some information that I found on their legal problems.
Again, go to Interzone and check it out.
Z-O-Z-O-N-E, not Z-O-N-E.
And check them out, interzone.com.
And I actually added their conference.
Their next conference is in April of 2004.
So it's not too awful far away.
It's less than a year away.
So I'm actually considering going to that.
Maybe we can all meet up there or something like that, a presentation or something like that.
But I sent them some information.
He's going to put together a PowerPoint presentation and send it to some people
and try to further their legal worries, their legal woes, which, again, I've gotten into before.
So I'm not going to waste time rehashing them.
But good luck to them.
Hopefully the little bit of information I gave helped, which was very little.
But hopefully that will help.
And I guess it's really settled.
It's over and done with to a certain extent.
But now the act is getting the word out to see what happened and how people were treated.
And let's not let it happen again.
You know what I'm saying?
So even though they may have settled and have it over and done with, it's not over yet.
So good luck to them.
Hopefully they can get the word out and get some people's minds opened.
Now, you, since you've been back, you know, actually, this is going to be the first episode.
I guess we should take a moment here and announce that Binary Revolution Magazine version 1.2 is now available.
I already mentioned it online, and people who have been to the site will notice.
But if you haven't already, go check it out, magazine.binrev.com.
You will see the latest edition is now available.
And in that edition, Wintermute, I think you have a contribution.
Is that correct?
Oh, yeah.
And what is that?
I have two.
I thought one but two.
Do you?
Well, the secret image.
Oh, yeah.
I forgot about that.
Don't give that away.
Well, I can't.
You have the inside back cover, too.
We'll just leave it like that.
Oh, yeah.
Well, we're talking about the article.
It's actually a follow-up to your 2600 article.
So why don't you tell us a little bit about that?
Or if anyone doesn't remember, I think it was, what, Spring 2K2?
Of, yeah, Spring 2K2-ish, of, of, of, 2K3, of 2600, the 20th volume, or has me headlining with the Best Buy and Securities.
And I wrote an article.
Best Buy basically had some horrible stuff on almost all their computers with access to their internal network.
And I had to kind of show them that.
And within a few days, they kind of patched that hole.
And I came back, fed up, I didn't have as much insight as I had before because they really did kind of hit it hard.
I got, I had some people, I talked to some people.
They were very helpful in showing me what happened, what they do.
And I wrote the article about it in the 1.2.
Yeah, that article really cracked down.
They made a lot of changes because of that article, didn't they?
What I've heard, and from my two inside sources, and they've been, they've been duly noted in my article, they, what happened was, and I kind of had the same theory, what was going on, if you saw, if anyone actually came up and saw how bad it was, they would really start laughing.
Because it was, there was problems with permissions on drives, there was caches, there was so much, there's so much stuff strewn everywhere, it had to be fixed.
So within a few days, what they did was, they revamped, they also needed to because it was getting horrible, it was getting old.
So first of all, they revamped the tool, the employee toolkit to include a password, which is different from a, the employee password for, say, going to the cash register and logging in and being a cashier.
So that's all new, and they reached all the links.
So what was basically, I was giving them a swift kick in the ass, I guess you could say.
Upgrade.
There's an eventual upgrade, but I kind of said, do it now because you see your problem.
Right, and you know, people have mentioned in the forums that now, I mean, they're paranoid.
Somebody had mentioned in the forums, a couple of people, that they went into Best Buy, and they were like, followed, or they were, you know, they jumped out of the little display, which is super easy.
And they were like, what did they say, the computers are not for hacking or something like that?
Yeah, what did they say?
I mean, they're paranoid now.
It was a, it was a mollusk, old badass, blowing this radio.
Uh, he, uh, he said that the guy came up to him, hey, these computers aren't for hacking.
I had that happen to me, after the article.
Mm-hmm.
Maybe it wasn't, um, let me think, what was it, it was, maybe it wasn't released yet, but I didn't go back there.
It was that, it was that in-between period.
Mm-hmm.
And it was, uh, I came in there, and I was playing around on a standalone machine.
I was going to copy all their, uh, their demo software off, and I'm kind of messing around.
I find the source code for that, in that, um, interactive demo.
Right.
And I had, like, fucking, well, I don't know, I was going to add something funny, and the girl, she's walking by, and she sees notepads open, and she stops, cocks her head, looks at me, and, like, what are you doing?
And I'm, like, oh, you know, just checking it out.
She's, like, oh, you look really like what you're doing, and that scares, you really, she said, you really look like you know what you're doing, and that scares me.
Uh-huh.
And I'm, like, don't worry about it.
And she's, like, okay, whatever.
Hmm.
And then after that, you know, it's just, I don't even know what they're going through these people's heads.
Well, now that they've been called out, you know, call them on the carpet, they, they're trying to watch their computers now, they're trying to eyeball everybody, and instead of fixing the problem.
Well, actually, to their credit, it sounds like they are trying to fix and do some things, but, um.
We got this, uh, we got something from a, from a little, uh, security, security list.
Yeah, actually, besides your, besides your Best Buy revisited article in this episode, or this issue of Binary Revolution Magazine, besides your follow-up article, there was also a disclosure made, um, that, you probably read more about this than I do, so why don't you talk about it also?
What happened was, uh, this guy, he comes in, first of all, this does require a password username, login, to, to execute, and basically what he does is he gets in, he, uh, uh, violates the, the URL, like, if you have Internet Explorer open, if you're using your Internet Explorer, but anyways.
You can type in, you can type in, it's basically, you can type in C colon slash, and you'll get a, the C, CD, C drive, on your hard drive.
Well, he's just saying that you can do this, and you can open up a command, command, like, kind of like getting a shell on, uh, on, on Linux or Unix.
Well, the problem is, you can't get to that unless you have permissions for that drive, so this is kind of useless unless you have the same vulnerability, the same accessibility as I did, where there were, the permissions weren't set correctly, and you could do whatever you wanted.
So this really isn't a threat, unless the permissions are set correctly.
Well, now, if you look at the timing of when he reported this, it started on May 5th of 2003, and he just now finally released it because supposedly he notified Best Buy, and they didn't do anything about it, and they didn't do anything, and they were told they were not serious, and it wasn't going to do anything, so he finally disclosed it three months later, it looks like.
So back on May 5th...
That was when my article came out.
Hmm, isn't that interesting?
So it's like, so it's like he, he kind of went along, maybe, with what I did, but to his credit, I bet he's a very smart guy, he did go a little farther than I did, he found this, the plaintiff's password disclosure, he found some passwords to their drives, so I didn't, I didn't, I didn't dig that far.
Yeah, now see, when you and I were working on this project, I originally found the same thing, then that's how I found a lot of the stuff that I was doing on my Best Buy computers was by rooting down to the C drive.
Yeah.
And, you know, I just played around with some silly things that tagged the machines, thank dog was here, some harmless little things like that, but yeah, I found some inconsistencies within one machine to another machine in the same store.
So, I don't know, maybe some of them still haven't been patched or fixed yet, or had the, you know, the authentication applied to them, so I guess it's a case-by-case basis, but in general, you're absolutely right, they've locked all that stuff down, as far as we can tell.
Yeah, but this is definitely cool what he did here, he found all the passwords to the, the drives that are mounted on boot, that's kind of cool, I think.
Hmm.
Yeah, that's fine.
But there is so much, the, the, the network is global, or not, I mean, at least continental.
Mm-hmm.
So from any store, you can jump to any other store.
Yeah, I know, um, when I was looking at it, you could, um, access inventory and stuff like that, see where, anywhere in stock.
It was, because you go in, I did a, you know, a network neighborhood, and you could see every other domain, so it starts at Best Buy 00001, all the way through all their numbers.
Was that, just as a guess, was that, like, by their store number, Best Buy 432?
Yeah, it is by their store number, yeah.
Yeah, figures.
Yeah.
Gee, surprise.
So, hey, and I got another piece of, uh, a tidbit.
All right, shoot.
All right, we got an, uh, Office Max, Office Depot, don't get me confused, just go to one of them, go to both of them, I don't care, they're both fun.
Anyways, that was one, one of them today, cruising, cruising, we needed a printer, we needed some, we needed some stuff.
Anyways, I'm, I'm digging around, and, well, of course, I got computers there.
You don't, you don't sell computers today, you're in the dark ages.
So, just messing around, and, you know, I find a computer, and I'm typing up, you know, just throwing some hands at it.
You don't know what's going to happen, guys.
And, uh, and, and, it's doing anything, I hit a, did an ATM in a different state start spitting money into the store?
I started spitting on money.
That's stupid, man.
Can't do that.
All right, I'm going to stop there.
Um, what, uh, what happened was, I hit escape, I was doing a control, shift, escape, trying to, you know, get some, get some stuff going.
And, escape would give me a password prompt, and I'm like, hmm, gets my eyebrow raised.
Well, I kind of stopped there, got it, stopped at my tracks.
But I did scroll, like, there's a, it's a nice interface that says, like, do this, do that, do this, do that, and it's all for consumers.
But you scroll down, and you get some links to, like, some administrative stuff, and I click one, and a box comes up, uh, username, password.
I'm like, well, what it could be.
Well, I'm a little taller than the average person, so I look, and, oh, what's on the monitor?
Username and password?
Password, password, on top of the monitor, where you can't normally see, unless you, like, creep up.
And this is the same thing, I've had this at Best Buy, where they kept the password to one of their, their screens, right on front of the monitor.
Hmm.
In clear view.
This is, if they thought, like, oh, no one will notice this little sticky note here, that's not the same color as the computer, and it has to have a lettering.
So I typed that in, and yeah, sure enough, it got in.
Hmm.
Hmm. Well, see, they don't think that most people are going to be competent enough to know where to put that password and things like that, so.
See, the idea we give them credit, you know, they put it in a little weird, a little weird spot, you know.
Well, I don't know how much credit that deserves, but.
Getting your people memorizing, memorizing this stuff.
Yeah, there's probably a catch-22 there. It's probably hard to get people to work there.
They don't pay any good money, so they don't expect competent people who can, oh, memorize.
Yeah.
So, hey, what are you going to do?
Um, also, I don't know if you tried it or not, but is that the same password?
Did you go try it on one of the other computers on display?
Did they all use the same one?
Yeah, this is, like, an internet accessible one to do, check on tech stuff, and just do a lot of more business type stuff.
Ah, I see.
So I didn't check it, but yeah, that's probably, I was going to write it down, but shucks, you know,
Dool's going to hit and kick my ass, but no freak notebook.
Oh, man. See?
Don't hurt me, man.
Oh, you have to have a freak notebook or a PDA. You know I'm the PDA guy. He's the freak notebook guy.
Every time I buy a PDA, it breaks.
Well, take care of it.
I do.
You broke your damn iMac.
Hold on, man. It's not my fault.
Wait.
I've taken so much crap, paracord.
We can't have nice things, because you tear them up.
You're going to say to me in a message, P.S., stop jumping on top of your iBook.
Mm-hmm.
Stop breaking.
I'm going to kick all your asses. I'm going to get some better.
You'll see. Just wait. Just wait. I'll have pictures.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. Um, let's, let's actually try to squeeze in some news here. Um, the big thing this past
week, we mentioned it on the last show, but, um, it's worth mentioning again, and that's
the So Big virus.
So Big.
Did you have any, did you have any personal, any relations?
But it happened, oh, I got like, oh, at least ten copies of it in my inbox. Hmm.
You notice it after, like, you get three of the same heading.
Right.
With an attachment. It's like, yep, that's a virus.
Yeah, there's like, I don't know, ten or twelve, ten or fifteen different headers or subject
lines that they give you, but, yeah, you can, for the most part, tell, and they're.
Someone actually got a little smart. They put Microsoft.com. Hmm.
Like, update with this patch now.
Yeah, but it was like a PIF file.
Yeah, it was a PIF file. So, wait, come on.
Stupid people.
Well, I know.
Microsoft, oh, it's safe, it's safe.
Right. Even though it, they didn't notice the address came from ZQ41321 at Yahoo.com or
something like that.
It's stupid. It comes from Microsoft.com.
Well, you know what? That's true. That is actually true. I should take that back because
the way that, that's the nature of the virus is it does come from people in your address
book or that you're in their address book, I should say. So, it is coming from people that
you know or think you know. So, it's just that the email itself was not.
But, like, if I went to headers, I would get a real address.
But, it came from support at Microsoft.com.
Right, right.
It quote, unquote, came from.
Well, yeah, it appeared from.
Yeah.
You know, the thing about this virus, though, that I found interesting was that where I
work, we were actually hit pretty hard by this virus and not so much because of the
vulnerability, the Microsoft vulnerability itself. That had been patched pretty quickly
and a lot of the machines were repaired pretty quickly. But, the thing is, the ones that weren't
were causing so much congestion on the network that it was really, really hurting the network
a lot because they are shouting out, looking constantly all over the place for its next
victim trying to spread. So, even machines that were on our network that were Linux-based,
Mac-based, anything, Unix, they were getting constantly getting ping requests, getting requests for
certain ports. So, that actually taxes your system to answer and say, no, that port's not
here. No, that port's not open. No, I'm not Microsoft. No, that vulnerability's not going
to work on me. So, technically, they didn't get affected by the virus, per se, but they were
actually DOS'd, to a certain extent, by a virus that doesn't even affect them. So, I thought
that was really interesting about this virus. I don't know if that was by intent or
if that just kind of worked out by circumstance, but I thought that was really interesting
that we have a computer science and engineering department that's very much Unix-based, and
they were reporting lots and lots of problems, too, and there was little they could do about
it other than trying to block certain ports, which, of course, starts crippling what they
can and can't do with their systems, and, you know, it's not really an answer. It's a short-term
answer, but even they were getting problems, even though they weren't vulnerable to the
attack. Did they catch some, dude? Or was that a blaster?
That was blaster.b. Yeah, you know, the other thing is the copycats. Yeah, the copycats
out there. The first, you know, the first blaster virus, which we talked about a while back
about, they missed it. They just made a tiny mistake in the original that they could have
actually DOS'd Microsoft Update, and they screwed up and attacked the wrong address, the wrong
box. So, the copycats come along, and they're not going to, you know, they come in, and this
guy put his name in the virus. Now, I'm sorry, that's stupid.
Yeah, he put his, uh, what did he, he had, he built in a, uh, in a backdoor function, and
it pointed to his website that his, uh, his Whois records had his name.
Exactly. I mean, he gave it, he gave himself away. You know, he put a link.
My parents laughed at that. You, you have to detach yourself from these things if you're
going to do that, which I do not condone in the first place. But if you're going to do
that, for God's sake, detach yourself from stuff like that. Anyway, you know, let's see
what comes of that, though. What kind of, um, punishment do you give somebody for something
like that? Are they going to make another example out of him, and, you know, roast him
in the media, and, you know, that's, that's a concern, right? You know, no matter what he
did, right or wrong, you know, is the punishment going to fit the crime? Let's see what happens
with it. But, you know, there is a lesson here to the listeners and to anybody. Don't get
in over your head. Don't go messing with something. You know, guess what? I've had the source
code to blaster virus since they first announced, since before the virus. I had the vulnerability
code itself that I was reading through to see how it worked. I'm not going to put my
name on it and re-release it. I'm not going to jump in there and get my feet. No way.
No way. I read it to see how it worked. You know, I found it interesting. But come on,
people. Don't go out there and stick your foot in there just because you find, oh, I
got some dude hooked me up. This elite guy on IRC sent me the source code, and I modified
it, and now I'm elite, you know. Well, guess what? Yeah, you're elite in jail while you're
bent over tossing somebody's salad. How elite are you now? Oh, that's a good show. How elite
are you now? I like that. It's been a shirt. Yeah. Like Rax is a, Rax, I think Duel told
me that Rax has a shirt that says, I'm not a hacker, I'm a computer security analyst.
Hmm. Nice, I want that. Yeah. Well, we ought to, well, never mind. We'll talk about that
in a later show. We need to, we need to come up with some DDP shirts and slogans and stuff.
I think we should have a, well, what am I going to say? I have way too many other things
on my plate right now to think about that. Anyway, here's another topic that I wanted
to talk about because this to me, all right, let me just read this, Mutant, and you tell
me what you think of this. Okay. And this is from an old Computer World magazine. This
may be a couple months old, but it says, quote, the number of organized hacking syndicates
targeting financial institutions around the world is growing at a disturbingly fast
rate. And so is the number of banks willing to pay these high-tech extortionist hush money
to protect their reputations, according to a security expert at the World Bank. First
of all, I don't know if there is a security expert at the World Bank. If it is, he's a putz.
It goes on to say, cases in which banks, brokerage firms, and other financial institutions have
quietly paid hacking syndicates extortion money are extremely widespread, said Tom Kellerman,
senior data risk manager specialist in the World Bank in Washington.
You think you don't pay off the banks? I do it every week. My PayPal's both money.
Ugh, man, I guess I'm missing out on this.
Missing out, man.
I'm not elite.
It's the dot-com era, man, of the banking extortionists.
They claim that 80% of these things go unreported.
Rule number one, you need proof. If I call up Apple and I say, I got a bomb, and I'm going
to blow up your building, and I want $10 million, you just don't send them $10 million. You
see if they have the proof.
Well, and their excuse for that is, and here, it goes on. It says, moreover, he contends
that IT employees keep many of these incidents from senior banking executives, quote, due to
the reality that they may be fired. Banks don't report these incidents mainly because
they want to maintain customer and investor trust, according to Kellerman. So they don't
want to look bad. That's the bottom line. They don't want to look bad. They don't want
to lose their job, the individuals. The companies don't want to look bad. So they're claiming
that 80% go unreported. Well, guess what? I think that's utter and complete bullshit.
I think that anybody is losing 80% of these things that are going unreported. They're losing
that much money and having that many attacks, successful attacks, which is what they're
insinuating, and they're not telling anyone, I don't buy it for a second. I don't buy it
for a second. If somebody breaks into my box, I'm going after them. You know? I don't know
if there's... Anyway, if I were a bank, that is to say. If somebody breaks into my box at
the house, well, first of all, more power to you. I'd like to see it. But if you're
in a banking institution and you get robbed of money, you better report it and you better
go after somebody. And if you don't... I'm sorry, I think you're a fool. Am I wrong on this?
No, because first of all, it's money. Money is... Sadly enough, it's worth a lot these days.
It should be, you know, it should be like, you know, your skill today, but you know, the amount
of money, it's who you are in the world. So, okay, you got to go find yourself and it's not
they're taking it from you. You don't have it anymore. Go get it back. Or hide it so you
don't lose your job. Exactly. Oh, come on. I don't believe that for a second. You know what?
I think, I tend to believe how they beefed these numbers up or how they skewed these
numbers is they're claiming and insinuating that this is from, what was their term? Extortionists
hacking syndicates. What the hell is a hacking syndicate, first of all? Is it DDP? Are
we a hacking syndicate? Totally, man. We are like... Ah, for crying. We're global. PR, like
everywhere. We got like dudes in Russia sitting in the back of the room just hacking away
the keyboard, man. I think they beefed these numbers up by every single tiny little incident
if somebody pings their server. Some script kitty does a port scan on them. I think they
used that to claim that was an incident where somebody, you know, they're disguising it.
They didn't get any money. They didn't get it. But they're using that to exaggerate the
news to scare, you know. And when someone types in the wrong password. Yeah. Three
times, oh, alert the media. Exactly. No, no, don't alert the media. That's what they're
going to say. Right. So they're trying to make it look like they're more in distress
than they really are. I bet like no one's even tried breaking in because, first of all,
there's that thing of that error of we break in, they're going to find us. It's that Cold
War thing. Like, we have bombs. Russia has bombs. We're not going to bomb each other because
we both know. What's going to happen? No one's going to go either way.
Yeah. The other, you know, and anybody, well, let me be careful saying this. I don't know
that in the United States anybody would be dumb enough to attack a bank inside the United States.
You know, if this were true, this is country to country hacking. So you're not tied up. If
you do this within the United States, you're going to get caught. You really are. Mitnick
got caught. Everybody, you're going to get caught. They will find you. They don't play when it
comes to money. So I don't believe for a second that 80% have gone unreported. If you hack into
a bank and steal money, they are going to find you. The only way they wouldn't is if you're
in another country where they can't reach and use their repressive laws to get to you
and B, if you're good on top of that and cover your tracks very well, they might not be able
to tell what country you're coming from, etc., etc. So that's travel hacking. You take
a trip to Russia. You plan it all out. You footprint the system. You read my new article on targeting
theory and the new issue have been revolution, binary revolution. Don't use credit card.
Don't use PayPal with credit card. You just get over there. Now, you know, I don't want
to sound like I'm telling people how to hack into a bank here. I'm just saying if you're
going to do this smart, you know, think this all the way through. That's all. I'll just
leave it at that. I'll just leave it at that. Don't hack from home. That means don't hack
from inside your home. Don't hack from inside your state. Don't hack from inside your own
country. You know, you take that, read into that what you will. Anyway, why don't we move
on to something you were telling me about. We talked about this before on RFA, but the
power lines thing.
BPL.
BPL is broadband or power lines, oddly enough. Basically what it's doing is, well, you have
your power thing. It's going everywhere. Power's everywhere. We usually just hit a blackout
about power. Well, what it's going to do is, how power works is a sine wave that goes back
and forth. Alternating current goes back and forth, back and forth. It's 60 hertz a second.
So, what that means is 60 hertz a second. So, that's how you have this nice little light
bulb next to me, powering and letting me read my show notes. What they're going to do is,
they're going to add another radio wave down there to carry your broadband. What that's
going to do is, it runs at the same frequencies that run at the amateur high frequency or HF
bands. So, what that does is, and they have a test, they have a movie of this on the
A-double-R-L.org has a video of them scanning the HF bands, and all they hear is static during
these power lines. There's a couple tests, maybe just one or two test cities that hit
broadband over power lines, and the people love it because, you know, they get broadband,
but it absolutely killed ham radio.
How so?
Because what happens, if you go over to How Stuff Works, go over to those sites and look
up how ham radio works, at the higher frequencies, it doesn't travel as far, but the lower frequencies
you go around the world. Now, at these lower frequencies, power lines are everywhere, so
you can't turn your radio on and not hear all this static and stuff coming over these power
lines, all this high frequency static coming over and ruining your reception. Now, it's
what this does is there's no more amateur radio, because that's really what amateur radio
is today, this cross-country communications. That means there's no more emergency radio.
You basically kill an emergency resource with this. This is horrible.
Well, it wouldn't get approved if they were destroying emergency radio. You're talking about
the emergency fire, the emergency weather, stuff like that.
But amateur radio is not just happy fun time with old guys. It was built as a public service.
One of the major tenets of amateur radio is this ability to work and coordinate with any
local fire to police department, whatever they want to do.
Right, and surely they can't, when rolling out this broadband power line technology, surely
they can't interfere with critical infrastructure like that.
They might be. That's the problem. They don't understand what the sweeping effects it has.
Well, hopefully in their testing and rolling this out in test markets, they'll realize and
come across that and adapt to it.
It runs between like 5 and 50 megahertz exact, whatever range. It destroys ham radio. That's
a major thing. If you think about it, in the blackout, there's no power except for ham radio
operators that had batteries. They were relaying messages. People were relaying between like
1,000 and 3,000 messages that are weak for people because there's nothing else because no one
else had power. Everyone else is like plugging in the wall and work. Well, it didn't work for
three days, whatever, five days. You destroy a major resource when that happens.
Well, it'll be interesting to see how this evolves.
Yeah, and it's going to be, if it happens, there's going to be so much protest about this.
Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure. You know, it's not just from, like you said, a bunch of old guys.
It's going to be, that's a critical infrastructure. It may not be, people don't realize that radio
is so important to weather, to emergency situations. That is what they use for communications.
It's not used in little or no other circumstances, so people don't know and appreciate it as much.
But that is a critical, critical part of our infrastructure. And I don't see how they could
approve, the FCC could possibly approve this, knowing, I don't know. Unless there's some
way they can work it out where it doesn't interfere, obviously, but I don't know enough
about the technology to know that.
Powerline's like a big antenna.
Right, exactly.
Flying at whatever amount of power, it's just going to destroy stuff. And you see this,
if you watch this movie, watch this movie, it's really low quality, but you can still see
what's going on. And they have a radio set up, and they're going around the dial. And
all you hear is...
And what was that? A-R-R-P dot org?
A-R-R-L dot org. Amateur Radio, Amateur Relay Radio League.
Dot org.
Radio Relay League, whatever. A-R-R-L dot org.
Okay, I'll check that out myself after the show. I'm curious.
You're at the top of the page, and there's a BPL testing movie or whatever. And watch that,
and you see the problems it's going to cause. They set up some town with a broadband over
power lines and all. It's... If they pass it, it's going to be...
A mess?
It's going to be a mess.
It's going to be a mess?
Yeah, a mess.
It really is. There's no other way to put it.
No.
It's going to be a mess?
So stick with your cable internet and be happy.
What kind of bandwidth does that have, though?
I have no idea. I don't know.
If I can get, like, you know, five megabits per second, then fuck all you hams.
You can figure something else out. I'm taking my bandwidth, man.
That's more porn than any one man can handle.
That was a little joke there, by the way.
Don't send...
Oh, don't tell...
All the hammers out there, don't send me hate mail. That was just a little humor there.
Don't tell Parallel about that.
Yeah.
Oh, he's already got terabytes of porn anyway. He doesn't need to download anymore.
Jesus.
Um, let's see.
Did you want... There's also... We had a topic... We got a little bit of time.
You want to touch on this Nintendo thing real quick?
It's old, man, but yeah, yes.
Um, Nintendo...
Let me just talk to the people for a second.
Okay, talk to the people.
What happens is we talk about so much stuff, we have to roll news over.
And this is, like, two months old.
No, it's not.
It's old, man.
Um, let's see.
And Kennedy is shot.
Yeah, it's old.
This is pretty old.
All right, you want... We'll skip this.
We'll skip this, because we are actually just about out of time, so...
Whoa, he's finished the show.
The show notes are done.
We actually did not have to use all the extra material.
And I'm tearing them up.
All right.
Because we have nothing else to do.
No, um, all we have to do is shout-outs.
You got any special shout-outs tonight?
Nothing, man.
I'm old.
Hey, I got one kid.
This guy next to me lived next to me for, like, my whole little, uh, childhood.
And then he becomes this lead hacker, man.
I'll talk to him.
I don't want to say his name.
You know, I don't want to get him all pissed off.
But I'm going to talk to him pretty soon.
He was...
I only realize now his leatness from when I was a little, little tyke in first grade.
But, pfft, God damn.
And, um, uh, oh, since I mentioned that, uh, BinRev 1.2 is out, I definitely got to give
a shout-out to Logan 5.
An amazing, amazing job once again.
Don't even, don't even...
You won't even...
You think it's like, oh, oh, it's just a cool magazine?
No.
It'll blow your mind.
It, it, it just...
Yeah, I just can't even put it into words.
It just...
It, not...
You know, I think the content is good myself.
But then, in addition to that, I mean, it's, it's beautiful.
I don't know if that's corny to say that, but, you know, the layout that he does to the
interior of the magazine accentuates the articles, adds to the articles, and then the cover
this month, you know, the inside cover, the back cover, the front cover, the last issue.
It's, it's amazing.
This, if you haven't looked already, again, go to magazine.binrev.com, check out the new
cover.
I think it's awesome.
Go ahead and put your order in.
By the time this airs, I should have them printed and on their way.
So, um, again, shout outs to him.
Um, I'm actually going to try to have him on next week, Mute, because I, I guess, Mute,
why don't you, are you going to announce to the people, or are you going to be taking
some time off here since school's starting back up, or how do you want to, what do you
want to do here?
As some of you may or may not know, uh, and maybe you know by my voice, I'm, I'm, I'm,
I'm a youngin'.
Well, you're not that young.
I'm not that, okay, fine, I'm not that young, but in the grand scheme of people.
Compared to me, you're young, but yeah, go ahead.
When a kid says to someone, 30 years old, I've heard that, well then, yeah, I'm young.
Okay, so, you know, and I'm going into senior year of high school, and I kind of screwed
up, because hacking, uh, kind of overwhelmed me last year, and grades were up there, but
not, not wonderful, so this, uh, this year's got to be the best year I've ever had.
Well, it damn well better be.
It has to be.
Or I'm going to come up there and kick your ass.
I'm going to be flipping hot, I'm going to be flipping hamburgers at McD wireless or
something.
Yeah.
So, uh, you're not going to get much hacking on that, so, yeah, I might take a, a sabbatical,
a hiatus, however you want to say it, and, you know, it's going to be the mute season finale.
Well, we'll probably have you back on on occasion when you get, when you get a break or vacation.
I might not be hitting the boards enough, but I mean, we'll definitely be, uh, pounding
those graves after I get, you know, accepted to prestigious colleges across the world.
And let me just tell everyone right now, I'm not applying to MIT.
Now, my people say, mute, you can get in.
Well, no, because I've heard horror stories from MIT, and I just don't want to.
It was a crapshoot to apply there.
I wish I could have gone to MIT myself, but.
I've just heard horror, I've just heard bad things.
Well, don't listen to what you heard.
Make your own decision.
Go check it out.
I might go there and.
Put it on the world tour.
See what's flying over there, but, you know, I got some, I got four colleges lined up.
They're all pretty, pretty neat stuff.
So, when I get accepted and when I can kind of chill, I'll be definitely getting back to
those, but, uh, don't worry.
Mute will not die.
Oh, no, I'm sure not.
Boy, never die.
We, you know, and this, there's a, you know, this, like I said earlier, too, I'm, I'm taking
a class, and I am old.
There's no doubt about it.
I am old, and I'm going back to take a class.
And it doesn't count for anything.
For me, I'm doing it because of the, you know, the love of knowledge and the learning and
stuff like that.
Mute knows what's important, and he's emphasizing his education because he knows that that is
the foundation to what he can and will do in the future.
So, you know, put things into perspective sometimes.
Does it suck to get up at five or six in the morning sometimes to go to school?
Yeah, of course it does.
But guess what?
Your alternative is to not go to school, be in, you know, get on, hit the boards for
a few years, think you're an elite hacker, and then, you know, you have no money, no
job, no way to make a living, and you're not going to be hacking four or five years from
now because you're going to be struggling, flipping burgers, and, you know, making hash browns,
smattered, smothered, covered, chunked, whatever.
That's the thing, because I've always heard, like, I always tell myself, I don't have to
worry.
No one knows what they're talking about.
It's like, oh, there's all information out of date.
No one understands me.
Well, let me tell you, I do understand, and you're going to fuck your life up.
Yeah.
The work.
So I hear the young, it's these young kids that, they are super smart.
Let me, Freak Lay is young brain.
I know you love, oh, Swigger.
Swigger's got to get the shout out.
He says, tickles his penis when he mentioned that.
I'm in red, but we'll talk about that later.
He needs to talk to Parallel.
So, anyways, these kids have to learn and to grow now, because in a few short years,
you're going to go to college.
And if your stuff isn't on the top of the notch, because every year that goes by in college,
every year that goes by up to the day you apply to college, is the hardest year to get
into college.
It means everyone wants a good education, to get a good job.
You work your ass off.
You stop, you have to stop the hacking.
I don't know if that's bad, but you have to.
Pause.
You pause, yeah, pause it.
Hit the start button.
Pause it.
Walk away.
Walk away for a year or two.
Get your shit straight, and come back.
We'll be here when you get back.
Yeah.
All right, let's get off the soapbox.
I've got to give a shout-out also, again, to Rocket from Interzone, to Acidus and Virgil.
Good luck with, you know, do what you've got to do.
You know, I know the situation, so I've got to give shout-outs to them for what they went
through.
And if you have email, send it to us, letters at binrev.com.
And that is it.
Our closing music this week is from Rocket Productions, and it's called Hypnotic.
That's it.
So I guess we won't see you next week, same hack time, same hack channel, but we will see
the listeners next week, same hack time.
Make the parting music.
Boop, boop, boop, boop.
Okay, whatever.
No, it's 24.
Best show ever.
Goodbye.
Oh, okay.
Well, I have to take your word for it.
I don't watch that.
Anyway, we will see everyone else, though, next week, same hack time.
Same hack channel.
Later.
Sure.
Later.
Life.
Later.
�
Thank you.