This is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers
I see in binary, I speak source code
Step on my toes, I'll post a million game pegs of you in a fag pose
In your digital stance, getting firewalled ho
Cause I'm riding the net in my six-fold
I was a dick with my 56
Now with my cable, I'm able to get that stable
On the out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo
On the digital highway, my name is Neo and I'm a Nero
In a flash, I'll screw you on burning dreamcast
You need some ISO? Let me through my hard drive rifle
Our exchange you could never stifle
In a digital hug, you just caught the love bug
I bootlegged your CD, I caused a fight between Un and Jay-Z
Cause CG, it's all gonna be free
Whether we take it by force or we take it nicely
You feel that rattle in your bones?
When I tell you we just hacked out Jones
And NASDAQ, leave your fight on your back
Cause I am he who loves to hack and crack
This is dedicated to the hackers and the criminals
Serial codes, source codes, ISOs, RANs, SIFs, SIFs
This is dedicated to the hackers and the crack
Alright, hello everyone
I am Stankdawg and you are listening to Binary Revolution Radio
Episode number 10
Now you know that we are without the Wintermute this week
Wintermute is actually going to be concentrating on school
Which we talked about last episode
So what we're going to be doing is rotating a bunch of new voices
And a lot of new co-hosts into the show
And one of them with us today is
And you're not actually new to radio
You've been on the show before
You've been on RFA before
Yeah
So, Logan 5, welcome to the
This is your first, this is your premiere episode of Binary Revolution Radio
I'm a BinRev virgin
Well, not anymore
We have popped your BinRev cherry today
Oh god, we're killing the young listeners here, right?
I thought I'd have to have a good start
Yeah
Just up a little bit
We'll just hope that someone's mom doesn't walk in when we say something like that
We'll just have to be a family show
Exactly
Now, before we go into it
We have a lot of stuff we're going to talk about today with Logan
But before we do, I'm going to do a little bit of housekeeping
Because I had a couple interesting emails I wanted to mention
First of all, we talked about the So Big virus
Last couple weeks, actually, we mentioned it
And, you know, I have gotten a few of them, not many
How about you?
Have you, did you get
I've gotten maybe 10 or 15
Really?
Over the weekend
I mean, last Thursday, Friday, I got quite a bit
Yeah, see, I've had them fairly consistently
But, you know, maybe, I don't know, five a week
For the last couple weeks
Not too bad
What's strange is I have about three different email accounts
And they've all been going to one of them
And it's the one that isn't really, that I don't use very much
Hmm
It's really kind of odd
Hmm
Well, I think we're both lucky
Because Hackenslash says he has received 27
So Bigs to his Yahoo account
So Yahoo is not filtering some of that stuff out very well
Now, I have several different accounts also
But I'm consistently getting three, four, five to each one of the accounts
You know, and it's easy enough to delete them out
Or filter them out pretty easily
So it hasn't been a problem
It's really easy to identify them, too
Yeah, there's a list of all the different things that they use
And even based on the attachments
You know, if I see something with a PIF attachment
I don't even bother, you know, it's just, it's junk
But add them to your kill file list
And it'll take care of them, you know, pretty quickly
So it hasn't been a problem
I also had another email from someone who
Well, it was from a real name
And I'm just going to call this anonymous and go with it
First of all, he said that we had a great hackers magazine and site
Well, thank you very much
But he couldn't find what he was looking for
I was wondering, since you use Linux
If you could tell me how to
Or tell me of a website where I can find out
How to hack my Sega Dreamcast to run Linux on it
I'm sure it's not terribly hard
But I'm really new at this
Well, join the club
I can honestly tell you
I've never tried to put Linux on the Dreamcast
Personally, myself
But the short answer is yes
There are absolutely ports
There are projects of people trying to port Linux
To the Dreamcast
There was even a MAME
The multi-arcade machine emulator
That lets you play a lot of the old school games
Arcade games as they were intended to be played
It's a very popular emulator
And it's been ported to several
It was actually one of the reasons of porting Linux over there
One of the features was that you would run LAME
Or excuse me, MAME
LAME would be the MP3 encoder we use
MAME on the Dreamcast through Linux
Yeah, there are a few
I have some links for you
But they're way too long to mention on the air
Probably your best bet or good starting point
Is to go to Linux DC
As in Linux Dreamcast
LinuxDC.sourceforge.net
And I have a couple other links I can give you too
What I'll do is
When Hack and Slash sends the show notes
I will put these links in there for you
So that you can follow them from binrev.com
And you can research it and check it out
And actually get back to us
Because as I said, I've never done that myself
But I do know that there are people working on it
From what I know, there was a working version
It's not just a project in process
It is actually working, I believe
But the problem is
Most of the interest has switched
From running Linux on Dreamcast
Or running Linux on PlayStation
Or whatever
Was when Xbox came out
Well that was just like a call to hackers everywhere
Everybody wanted to put
Just for the sheer irony of it
Not want to
Yeah
Everybody wanted to slap Microsoft in the face
And Microsoft basically challenged people
In not so many words
To put Linux on there
They said it couldn't be done
So basically
When that came out
Everybody pretty much switched gears
So I don't know if there's any progress
Being made on the old Dreamcast Linux
But like I said
We'll put the links up there
You check it out
And actually I'd like to hear back from you
And tell me
Yeah, if you can pull it off
That'd make a great submission to binrev
Yeah, actually
You know what?
That is
That would be a very good submission
A step-by-step how-to sort of thing
And yeah, by all means
Keep in touch with us
Let us know how it goes
Another thing you might want to do
Is email C4
Go to Gamer Radio
Game Radio
Gamer Radio
Games and
What is it?
Games and More Entertainment Radio
At hwhq.com
Send him an email
And since they're more into gaming
But he's also very good at Linux
Those guys know what they're talking about too
Maybe one of them actually has some hands-on experience
So get in contact with them
Again, hwhq.com
And see if they might not be able to help you out
So, um, you know
I gotta start the show off
I'm not pissed anymore
I'm calmed down now
However
I started off a bad week last week
Just before we were recording the show last week
My fucking machine died again
See, I can't make it through an episode without saying the F word
I'm sorry
Kids, cover your ears
I have to say it
I swear to god
Windows XP sucks my cock
I hate XP so fucking badly
My machine died last week
The day that I was going to record the show
I stayed up all night
Trying to figure out what was wrong with it
Trying to back out anything that I've done recently
Which wasn't anything that should have been
You know, enough to damage the stupid thing
Um
But it's the principle
Yeah, and this is not the first time, you know
I mean, this is
Windows
If you install Windows on a clean, plain, normal, everyday, average box
One CD-ROM driver, DVD
One hard drive
A floppy drive, processor
Nothing
Just a simple, everyday machine
You know, it'll be fine
It'll be fine
But for power users
People who try to
Push the machine
And, well, basically do what it was intended to do
Be powerful and use it to its fullest effect
You know, I have four or five hard drives in this box
I have a DVD
Slash CD-R burner combo drive in this box
I have, you know, a lot of
Temperature monitors
And stuff like that in this box
Um
And that's what confuses Windows
If you do anything unusual
Or anything out of the ordinary
It just
Chokes on it
It absolutely can't handle it
So
I was pissed off
I had to basically reinstall the whole thing
Well, that's a lie
I didn't reinstall everything from scratch
What happened was
I narrowed it down to this
Okay
I
Basically
Um
I did all the
Critical updates
And the critical updates
Are fine
That's not what crashed my box
I updated everything
But there's also something called
Recommended updates
Which were
Which are just other little things
They're not necessarily critical
They're not necessarily security problems per se
They're suggested upgrades
They're not required for you to download
One of them
I don't know which one of them
Because I just grabbed the whole batch of them
I think it was like nine or ten of them
And put them on
One of them caused my box to not reboot
And now I can boot into safe mode
And when I boot into safe mode
It's um
I go through and I
Try to do a rollback to the previous
You know, before I installed all of those
It doesn't help
It does not uninstall things like drivers
And stuff like that
Which I think is what the problem is
I think there's a driver it doesn't like
Who recommended these recommended downloads?
Well, our good friends at Microsoft
I guess Bill Gates himself
Yeah, so
You know, basically
I
The bottom line is
I had to get my original Windows XP CD
Boot from it
Do a repair
Which is basically a reinstall
It overwrites all of your system files
With the original stuff from the CD
Which ironically means
You have to go back to the Windows update
To install the service packs
And the critical updates all over again
Put you there in the first place
Right
But I just did not install
Any of the recommended updates
So
Anybody that's listening
Wants to hack me
If you find something
In the recommended updates
That will actually
Make my box vulnerable
I'm wide open to it
Because Microsoft sucks dog cocks
Boy, I really took the show away
I hope there's no kids
Listening to the show
Because I really just
Perverted the whole thing now
Well, you only told the truth
Well, yeah
I mean, basically
Yeah, here
Let me give you the short version
Fuck Microsoft
There
That's the short version
Of the whole thing
Yay
And I'm not about to go through
One by one
I mean, like I said
There's ten of them
I could technically go through
And install one at a time
And see if the box comes back up
But I shouldn't have to do that
And I refuse to out of principle
So, fuck Microsoft
That's the moral of that story
I always look at it
From the perspective
That maybe that's what
Windows XP is supposed to do
It's supposed to hose your machine
Well
Working as intended
If that's the case
It does a damn good job
Damn good job
They're consistent
You've got to say that much
Well, yeah
They get points for consistency
But
I don't know
I'm tempted to give out the award
But you know what
I think
It's too obvious
To give them the
Fuck none of the month award
So I'm just
No, that's too obvious
I also was out
Just kind of play hacking
This past week
I was on vacation this week
I'm back at work now
As you listen to this
Unfortunately
But
So on vacation
I was just out
Nosing around
Places I'm not
Probably supposed to be
But
Browsing through some
Some servers
Doing a little directory
Transversal
And I stumbled across
What I just thought
Was an interesting
Naming convention
I found
Some boxes
Some servers
Some subdomains
I guess
Is probably what
They really were
But I'd never seen
This naming convention
Before
Some of the names
Were Dahmer
Manson
It was
A list of
Serial killers
For node names
Was that Dean in there?
I don't remember
All of them
I just remember
Obviously those
Caught my attention
Because they're
The biggest names
But I was like
I wonder what
They're using them for
Hey
You know what
I didn't dig that far
I saw what they were
And actually
It was
One of them
Was a VMX
VMS box
Actually I think
It was
Like I said
Subdomains
On the same box
That's what I think
It really was
But one of them
Was a VMS
And they did have
Some guest accounts
They allowed you
To go in and use
And play around with it
And I did that
I haven't used VMS
In probably
Literally 10 years
Since I've done
Any real VMS work
So that was actually
Kind of fun
I didn't spend
You know
15-20 minutes on it
And then I had
Other things to do
Of course
But that was actually
A fun little diversion
And also this past week
Were 2600 meetings
And at my 2600 meeting
It was actually
We had somebody
From out of town
At this meeting
Which was very cool
From 2600 meeting
Up in Tennessee
Actually
Who was down here
For doing some work
For his company
And he showed up
Which was interesting
Cy Pete
Who is a friend of mine
He did
What I guess
Would equate
To a proof of concept
At our meeting
He has an article
In the current issue
Of Binary Revolution
Magazine
Pimp Pimp
About cloning cell phones
And he had acquired
A new cell phone
He bought it
And basically cloned
One phone over to another
And we did it
Following along
With the article
Basically in the magazine
Which I took
To the meeting as well
And we basically
Did this
And showed
That it works
That it can be done
And that it's true
These things
We verify these
They actually work
Very very cool
Yeah and that
That was really fun
So I found that
Very interesting
And you know
Again
We verified
All these things
They actually work
This is not just BS
We actually check up
On this stuff
So that was very cool
Now speaking of
BinRev
I don't have to ask
What you've been doing
For the last week
Or the last month
Because we all know
What you've been working on
Oh man
I know
You know
And I say it again
I'm going to say it to you
Or live on the air
Well pseudo live
Thank you so much
Because I do know
How much it entails
To go through
All that kind of stuff
It is not
A fast process
And it's not
It's so
Make it up
As you go along
And winging it
And it comes out
Looking
So professional
And so well done
I know we put
We planned some things
Out ahead of time
But then at the last minute
You know
It ends up putting you
On the spot
And that's probably
My fault
It was like
Oh well we didn't
Think about this
And oh shit
We left out that
So thank you so much
For coming out
1.2 is phenomenal
The cover
Honestly it's a blast
To work on
It's really a nice
Diversion from my day job
I mean I do that
Pretty kind of thing
All day long
But this is stuff
I get to have fun with
I have an interest in it
I actually learn a lot
As I'm putting it together
Because I kind of get
You and I kind of get
The first crack
At the articles and stuff
Right
And you know
Dool said he kind of
Likes the surprise
The feeling of surprise
He actually helped do
A lot of editing on it
This time too
But he said he kind of
Liked that feeling
Of being surprised
By our own zine
Which I understand
But yeah you and I
See it through the whole process
And work on it
From day one
And I'm glad you mentioned
Too about
You know
Everybody knows my day job
I'm a computer programmer
By day
And I'm a computer programmer
By night
You know
But it really is different
You know people joke about
What do you do
When you get off work
While I come home
And I get on the computer
Some more a lot
You know
It's like
I like that
When you're in
It's a different environment
And you're doing something
You want to do
As opposed to something
You have to do
And it really is
It's a diversion for me
So it's not
I don't think of it as work
I think of it as a diversion
Of having fun
And giving back
And I'm glad that you said
You feel the same way
Because sometimes I feel like
You know
This is a lot of work
I know it
And I don't want to
Burden you too much
So I'm glad you actually
Enjoy doing it
And it is worth
It is a lot of work
But it's worth it
Because look at
I mean honestly
I mean not to pat myself
On the back
But I like how the magazine looks
I like the content
I like everything about it
Yeah and I agree
It wouldn't be such a great
You know not to use
The term as a product
But it wouldn't be
A great product
Without all the effort
That everybody puts into it
Right
And we do
We work hand in hand
You know I have ideas
Some good
Some bad
And same with you
And you know
It's like
We work together
We mesh together
And so far
You know we've
We've been able to
Put it together
Into a great magazine
I mean the cover
The ideas for the cover
We hammer out together
We'll start with a vague concept
And hammer it down
And even with that
When you still sent me the cover
I was still shocked
I was amazed
You know at the cover
So
I'm glad
Everybody likes that
You know
Yeah
It's
You know the thing is
And that's why it's a combination
Of the two
People say
You know I've heard comments
Of people saying that
You know all flash
And no content
Sometimes
Not about us per se
But in general
You know
Well
You've got to have something
You've got to make it look good
You've got to make it look professional
And look like you care about what you're doing
What we do
So
When people see that cover
And they see
And we'll use 1.2
When they see
Tux on the cover
When they see the Linux World Tour
They say
Hey
I wonder what's inside
And then when they open the magazine up
And they see the content
And the design
And the layout
It's the whole package
Neither has any priority over the other
You have to put it all together
Yes
They're all part of the whole
Exactly
So you know
You've got to put asses in the seat
So
I think the combination of the two of them
Is what's working
And
I'm not going to
I won't branch into this too much
But I'll just say
Other people are stepping up their game
In my opinion
As a result of what we've done
So I've seen improvements in other
I've noticed it
Because we talked about that a little bit
Yeah
We won't mention any names
Let's
Actually
Why don't we go into talking about
Let's talk about some of the things
That are necessary
In putting together
A
Actual
Physical
Printed
Magazine
In-bred technical manual
Like
Like for example
Why don't you
Well
This is going to be a lot of you talking
I'll just kind of
I guess play the interviewer here
What software do you use
To design and lay out
And stuff like that
We know they come out as PDF files
But why don't you give us an idea
Of how you design and lay out
And stuff like that
Okay
Well basically
I mean I get fed all the articles
But they're basically raw text
ASCII files
Which is great
Because
There's no fonts or anything to deal with
I take all the text
And basically I use three programs
Photoshop
Adobe Photoshop
Adobe Illustrator
And Adobe InDesign
Everybody knows what Photoshop is
It's graphic manipulation
Right
Illustrator is kind of
I kind of call it a drawing program
It's what they call
A vector based drawing program
That's what I do all the logos in
That's
Because when you do
You can't really do a logo
Very well in Photoshop
Just because of the way
The text will render
And it looks a little funky
You really want to draw
That kind of thing
In Illustrator
It's a lot better for that
Okay
To put the actual pages together
InDesign is
It's a professional
Page layout program
If anybody's ever heard of
Quark Express
Right
I remember Quark
Yeah it's basically the same type of program as Quark Express
I mean Quark is the industry standard for professional printing
Any magazine book you buy
It's going to be laid out in Quark
InDesign has been around for
I want to say maybe four years now
And it's really catching up to Quark
It's actually
It's so much better than Quark now
You can use so much more with it
And those are basically the three that I use
They're all
I mean
They're not cheap
But
That's where the quality comes through
Right
Well you know
To a certain extent
You get what you pay for
And
The other thing is
I mean
Right now we're not to the point
Where we're sending these out
To have thousands and thousands
Of copies printed
We're basically making the PDFs
And taking them to
Where you know
Kinko's or wherever
To have them printed
Right
But
If we were to say
Get a major distributor
That would be able to supply us with it
With some sort of distribution network
Where they were getting a thousand
To two thousand copies
We couldn't do that
We couldn't take
A
What is it
Microsoft publisher file
To a printer
And say
Print a thousand of these
They're going to look
They're going to throw you out
Because they only
I mean
Quark and InDesign
Are the industry standards
So any files that you make with that
They're going to want those
Right
And
Since you touched on that topic
The printing aspect of it
Now
I mean
We go to Kinko's
There's nothing complex
Or magical about that
We go to Kinko's
Just like
You know
The 14 year old kid
Who has to go make
Copies for his class
For you know
Photocopies
We go to the same place
They provide other services
But they really don't do printing
They outsource it to
Other printers
We cannot directly
Go to printers
Or at least
I've tried
I went
I drove around to
Probably a dozen
Different printing companies
In the phone book
And I'll bet they told you
That they won't even talk to you
Unless you're going to print
At least a thousand of them
Exactly
One of them would do it for $500
But he wanted to set up
What do they call it
To make the plates
Plates
Yeah
To make the plates
When you get something printed
That's where
I think 75% of your costs come from
Yeah
I mean
And it was just
Plates
There's no way around saying this
I couldn't afford it
No
I couldn't afford to do it
So
We do go to Kinko's
With the PDF file
With the final proofs
Of the magazine
And have it printed out
And stapled
Folded
Another thing that I didn't realize
Was
You know
I was imagining
Okay
I'm going to try to
Cut the cost as much as I can
And do as much myself
As I can
Well
When you staple
All those pages together
A
It's not as easy to staple them
And keep them straight
And in line
And I went through folding
The first batch
I folded by hand
And oh my god
I'll never do that again
Unless I have to
That was a pain in the butt
And then you have to trim it
Because
When you fold all that paper
It sticks out in the middle
And it doesn't look nice
And trimmed and cut
So
That's another service
That Kinko's provides
And all that
All that adds up
Because
If you
I think we figured out
It's averaging
So maybe
Is it 285
Or 385
It was three
Dual I think was
385
For printing
Plus
Plus that was not counting
And he can correct me
Maybe next time
I'll get exact numbers
That was not including
Like the trimming
The stapling
The
Folding
Etc
So
All in all
I know one batch
He printed like
I think
5 or 10
On a small batch
And it ended up costing them
Over 5 bucks a piece
Yeah
Which
And we're only charging
5 dollars an issue
Right
And basically for me
It's costing about
475
485 an issue
So
You know
That little bit of money
We
You know
It's
It's not like
We're making anything
On the whole
And then
You know
We really want people
To understand
That we're not
You know
5 dollars might seem
Like a lot
Compared to some other
Publications
But it's really not
I mean
When you consider
What we're
What we're working with
And what we put into it
Right
And don't be misled
I'm not
In any way
Shared before
I'm complaining
That we're not making money
I don't care
If we make money
I just want people
To understand
Exactly where the balance is
So
You know
And that's the kind of
Point I was getting to
Is that
You know
What we're charging
And what we're
Our production costs are
If you want to call it those
They're pretty much the same
Yeah
Now
We will
We would like to
I should say
Hopefully one day
If we get enough interest
Let me
Let me back up
The way to get this out
People say
You know
If you want to make it big
Somebody mentioned that
If you want to really
You know
Get out there
And become something
Or make the magazine
If you
To do that
You have to
Have your magazine
Carried by a distributor
And I've contacted
Distributors as well
Basically
They don't even want you
To waste their time
Or talk to them
Unless you can show
That
There is enough interest
In the magazine
To make it worth their while
They're in the business
Of making money
And if they are going
To distribute your magazine
And put it on store shelves
They want their cut
And if you don't prove to them
That the people are going to
Buy it off the store shelves
They don't have any interest
So that's why we have to start
With the nature
Of what we're at now
I know a lot of people
Don't want or like to use
PayPal right now
Well that's the only
Economically feasible alternative
When we get it established
And show that there is a market
And there is an interest
For this type of thing
Then we will move on
To the next step
I would love to let people
Send me money
And have subscriptions for it
Where I could just
Automate the whole thing
But that's just not
Economically feasible right now
Because it just costs
Too much money
On our end
To try to set all that stuff up
Time wise too
Because none of us
Are doing this full time
Yeah and that's the other thing
Is all that we mentioned before
The cost of this
Has nothing to do
With the time that it takes
You know we have
Real life gigs
On top of all this
So yeah it's
There's really a lot more
To it than I think
People realize
And that's why
It's
I'm glad to have you on
So we can talk about
This together
Now eventually
If we can get
A distributor interested
And get this thing
Out to stores
And stuff like that
Distributors usually
Have contacts
With printing houses
And stuff like that
And they will take
Some of that burden
Away from us
And it will be
Kind of a situation
Where we say
Okay here are the final
PDFs
Here's the final output
Here is the magazine
In electronic form
Go print it
And they basically
Act as an agent
Or negotiate
They have it printed
They'll tell us
How much it is
They'll take their cut
Their percentage
Off the top
And you know
If there's anything left
Which again
Is going to be very little
Would come back to us
Which we would in turn
Reinvest into
Upgrading the magazine
Buying new
Software equipment
Stuff like that
Hosting fees
Things like that
So that is the ultimate goal
But we have to get there
And it's going to take
You know
Spreading the word
You have to walk
Before you can run
Absolutely
You get the word
Out there to people
You get people
Coming to the site
Ordering the magazine
If they like it of course
You know
People come in
And try one
See if you like it
And as we grow
Hopefully we will
Move in that direction
That is our intent
But yes
We have to crawl
Then walk
Then fly
And you know
Right now we're crawling
We're doing a good crawl
I think
I like it
The feedback has been good
The majority of people
Who have actually tried it
Have liked it
The problem is
Getting more people
To try it
So you know
I guess that's really
The case with anything
In the world
Any business
Any
Getting any kind of
Even the
Electronic zines
Even e-zines
You got to get the word out
And get people to come by
And try them
Exactly
So
Let's go also talk about
Now well first of all
I don't think we said this
Officially
But just for the record
Adobe Illustrator
Adobe Photoshop
And
Adobe InDesign
InDesign
Those are
All on
The Macintosh
Gotcha
I mean
You do everything
On the Mac
But I've been a Mac user
For 20 years
And bin rev
Is 100% produced
On a Macintosh
Woohoo
Now five years ago
We would have been
Laughed out of the room
For saying that
But Mac
Kicks ass now
I love Mac
You know
I tell you what
Why don't we
Let's jump into the Mac
For a little bit
In general
Can you tell me this
Is this
Because I'm developing
This opinion
On the Macintosh
And I'm not sure
Being that I have
Very limited
Knowledge of the Mac
And you use it a lot
Is the Mac
The one computer
To rule them all
Is it
The end all
Because
Correct me if I'm wrong here
With the Macintosh
Obviously you can run
Mac software
Yes
You have virtual PC
Where you can also run
Windows software
Is that correct
You can run Windows
Under virtual PC
You can run
Any version of Windows
You can run them
Simultaneously
You can run
Basically any
X86 Linux distro
Side by side
Simultaneously
With Windows
And everything else
Plus you can run
Basically any
Unix Linux app
Under what they call
The X11 Windows system
You can run
Pretty much anything
Can you download
Source code
You can download
Source code
And compile it for
You know
Linux source code
And compile it for
The Mac
Yes
There's a developer
Apple has
What they call
The Apple Developers
Toolkit
And it's
Actually a free download
I think you have to
Go to their website
It's a free download
It's huge though
But if you buy
A copy of Mac OS X
From the store
It comes with it
On a CD
And there's a compiler
In there
There's a whole bunch
Of other stuff
And you just install it
And it's basically
What you need to do that
Well
See there's
There's a term
That people throw around
In the computer industry
Called the killer app
Everybody wants to know
What's the next killer app
The last killer app
Was supposedly
Spreadsheets
I would actually
Debate that it's games
A killer app
Is something
That's going to
Make people
Want to buy
Computers
Want to buy hardware
To run
That application
When spreadsheets
Came out
They were so
Incredibly useful
To financial organizations
That everybody
Had to have
A computer
So that they
Could run
Spreadsheet software
Because it made
Their life
So much easier
Right
I say
The same thing
About games
Games
And get
Customized machines
For gaming
Have been
The biggest
Selling thing
That's kept
The computer industry
Afloat
In my opinion
The last few years
It looks to me
And maybe I'm wrong
But it looks to me
Like Mac OS X
Is the killer app
It's one computer
That can run
Any and all
Almost any
I'm sure there's exceptions
Any and all software
On one machine
Why would you need
Those other boxes
Yeah it's
It's really kind of
Unique when you
Think about it
I mean so many
People are looking
For an alternative
To Microsoft
And there's one
Staring them right
In the face
I mean OS X
It's open source
To a certain degree
Which is great
I mean it's not
100% open source
But it's customizable
Enough that you can
Basically run
Anything you want
I mean I've got
My little iBook
Sitting here in front of me
I've got OS 9
The old Mac OS
On there
I've got OS X
I've got virtual PC
I've got
Within that
I've got
I've got Red Hat Linux
I've got two different
Windows setups on that
And I've got
The X11 installed
Which I can
I've got KDE running
Actually right now
KDE on a Mac
Which is very cool
I can access
It's basically just like
Having a Linux box
You've got all
The Linux
Unix apps
You know
With a GUI
On top of them
Plus
I've actually got
Linux running
On this thing
I've got
It's called
Yellow Dog Linux
Which is basically
A version of Red Hat
That's ported to the Mac
And all I have to do
Is reboot
And I just hold down
The option key
And I can select
Which partition
I want to start up from
I can just select
A Linux partition
And bam
I'm in Linux
So there's
In the scientific community
It's really
Really becoming
Very cool
To see these people
That are ditching
Their Windows machines
They're going out
And buying
A G4
And run OS X
And they can run
They can run
Their computations
Do anything
That they need
To do in the
Windows machine
But they can also
Use all these
Really great
I guess
There's a lot
Of scientific programs
Out for Unix
And it had been
For many years
With a Mac
I'm running OS X
You can have
The Unix applications
Running
And if there's
Something that you need
That's specifically
Windows
You can run that
Virtual PC
And so you see
These entire
Science departments
That are ditching
Their PCs
And buying Macs
Where they
Might have had
A Windows workstation
A Unix workstation
They're basically
Getting one machine
In one package
Alright well
Consolidating
Down to one machine
And they love it
They love it
Now well
Okay now
Obviously
You're partial
To the Mac
You have a lot
Of experience
With the Mac
But let's
You know
We're not completely
Brainwashed
To only follow
Let's be realistic
Now
Honestly
Running
Virtual PC
You're going to
Take a performance hit
That's
A big performance hit
Now how
How big
For example
I'm assuming
That you probably
Couldn't
Play some games
Using virtual PC
On a Mac
See that's the thing
You really wouldn't
Want to use
Virtual PC
To play games with
Right
If games are your thing
And that's what you want
You're better off
Buying a gaming machine
Dedicated
Right
Where virtual PC
Is really what
It's designed for
Is if you have
A specific program
Say business
Taxes
Let's use tax software
For a big example
Okay right
Sure
For whatever reason
Nobody makes
A home business version
Of tax software
They used to
I think it was
Intuit used to make
Was it
Whatever their tax program was
But right now
The only ones
That are making
Intuit makes TurboTax
TurboTax
That's the one
I'm thinking of
They don't make
A home business version
For that
They only make
A personal version
So when I did
My taxes last year
I had to
Go
I want to actually
Use H&R Block
I'll just
Use it as an example
I went to their website
Downloaded the Windows version
Of the program I needed
Installed it
In the virtual PC environment
And I did my taxes that way
That's what virtual PC is for
It's not really for gaming
But if you have a program
That you absolutely
Have to have
That is only available
For Windows
That's what it's designed for
Right
I also use it
For website testing
Because I do a lot
Of website design
That's basically
My bread and butter
I could design a site
On my Macintosh
And everything looks great
The javascripts work great
The style sheets work great
But if I were to try
And say IE6
In Windows 98
It could be rendered
Completely different
But I would never know
About it
Unless I go and test it
I'm not going to go
Buy another computer
Just to test websites with
So I have virtual PC
And a couple different machines
Loaded with different
Operating
Different versions of Windows
And different web browsers
And I test all the sites
And I can see how
It's going to look
To a Windows user
Without actually having
To have a Windows machine
Okay
Let me
How about this
Let's say
Let's say you've convinced me
And you have honestly
Well
I kind of was leaning
This way anyway
Of looking into buying
An iBook
We're buying
What would be the cheapest
Now this is the only
Knock I have against
Against Apple
No one can make a Mac
But Apple
You know
They've never
There are no clones
There are no
Other companies
That can make
And compete on price
You have to buy it
From them
Which kind of sucks
A little bit
Well I don't really
See that as a down point
Because for me
I want to know
That everything is
Going to work
When I use
I want to know
That when I install
Something
It's going to work
With a computer
I don't have to worry
About finding
Going to three different
Websites to download
Drivers
Or oh god
I need this patch
It just works
Yeah I mean
And that is because
I know what you're saying
Yeah that is because
It's an absolutely
Controlled environment
But the reality is
If IBM had taken
That same mindset
And only developed
The PC themselves
And no one ever
Could make a PC
Other than IBM
Would you think
You'd really be able
To buy a $400
E-machine today
That's fully functional
2 gigahertz box
With everything included
For $400
I mean it really
The competition
For the hardware
Helps the consumers
But yes
There is a cost
And that is stability
That's absolutely true
My question is this
How cheaply could I
Or anybody listening
Let's say we wanted
To do what I
Just suggested
Let's have a one
One OS to rule them all
One box
And run virtual PC
And have it all centralized
How cheaply could I get
A laptop
Say minimum requirements
Or you know
Recommended requirements
To run OS X
And do the things
We talk about
Now obviously
The faster higher end
You get it's going to be
Faster and more efficient
But what would be
Like the minimum
How would
How would I get
On board to try that
How much am I going to
$1,000
A thousand bucks
I think it's a
12 inch iBooks
I think the 12 inch iBooks
Are just $9.99
I think is what they sell for
And that's brand new
That's brand new
What about like on eBay
Or something like that
Used
Oh but you probably
Find them a little bit less
But honestly
Macs hold their resale value
That's what a lot of people
Don't realize
You can buy a three year old
Machine
That's less than
That's a little bit more
Than half the cost
Of a brand new one
They don't lose their value
The way a PC does
I mean you can buy
Get really good prices
On used Macs
But if you look at
What you're paying
For a used one
It's not that far off
From buying a new one
Interesting
So and that would
Of course come with
The license for OSX
That is included
In the cost
Correct
Right
And the way OSX works
Is that there really
Isn't a licensing
Per se
I mean you buy it
And you can use it
But they don't
Control it the way
Microsoft does
There's no serial number
You have to enter
If you reinstall it
Hmm
If your drive gets hosed
And you lose everything
I don't know
I know that there's
Some problems
With Windows XP
In particular
There's a key code
Or something
That if you lose that
You have to call
Microsoft to get it
Yeah
They don't
You don't have any of that
The only time you have
Or really anything
To enter a password
Is if you're using
Mac OS X server
But the basic
Desktop client version
Of OS X
If you
Honestly
If you went
Went and bought
Spent $129
Is what it costs
You can install
As many machines
As you want
There's nothing
Stopping you
From doing that
The licensing agreement
Says you can only
Install it on one machine
But there's nothing
Physical
There's no coding
There's no password
To prevent you
From installing it
On ten machines
In your house
Right
But again
It basically
Comes with it
When you buy it
You're basically
Paying for the whole package
To have the license anyway
Right
So whether or not
They track which
You know
Whether you use the same disk
On two systems or not
You already paid for it
For two systems regardless
Paid for it
So it's kind of
It's kind of silly
Right
And the thing is
A lot of the software
That you're going to want to use
Is already
It's part of
When you buy the computer
I mean
You buy
The computer
You can open it up
And literally
You can get online
You can make a movie
Burn DVDs
Right out of the box
You don't have to buy
Or add anything extra
It's pretty cool
What about virtual PC?
Virtual PC
You have to
That doesn't come
Included with it
I mean
That's an actual
Separate program
You have to go out
And buy separately
Right
Now this is very interesting
This is something
That people don't realize
There was a
Company called Connectix
They are the ones
That created virtual PC
And sold it for years
And years and years
Back in February
Microsoft bought
Virtual PC from them
Microsoft now
Actually owns the technology
For virtual PC
And they have
Complete control over it
How convenient
I'm smelling
Abandonware here
If you want virtual PC
I would get it
As soon as you can
Because there
I don't
Personally
I don't see
A big future for it
If Microsoft has it
Get them while they're hot
Because I don't know
There used to be
The same company
Connectix
Made a program
Called Virtual Playstation
Which would let you
Play virtual
Playstation games
On your Mac
Yeah
Then they got sued
They got in trouble
For that
Oh and Sony
Got a cease and desist
For it
They fought for
About a year and a half
Or so
Connectix finally won
And was able to
Put it back on the market
But by then
PS2 and stuff
The next generations
Had come out
I think it was just
Before the PS2
Actually
But Sony
Ended up buying
The software
From Connectix
And then as soon
As they bought it
They shelved it
You never heard
From it again
So if you can't
Beat it
You buy it
And then you
Bandon the product
And even
Which is exactly
What you just said
With Microsoft
But even if they
Hadn't done that
Like you said
Either the PS2
Was getting ready
To come out
Or was just out
By getting that
Injunction against it
And making them
Stop for a year
And a half
The damage
Of holding that up
Yeah they eventually
Won
They were in the right
They were found
To be legally able
To do what they did
But it's a year
And a half later
And your entire
Market is gone
It could have
Cost them millions
Of dollars
The damage of doing
These kind of lawsuits
And I think there
Needs to be a punishment
To companies
That do that
I think these things
Need to have
Better time limits
You can't have
An injunction
Stopping the
Distribution of this
Product for a year
And a half
That's ridiculous
Because that
Intercues with the market
And kind of
Along the same lines
Getting back to
Virtual PC
There was another
Company
It was FWB software
They make hard drives
And diagnostic software
For hard drives
They actually had
A comparable product
Called Soft PC
I think it was called
Basically another
Windows type emulator
And they were
Supposedly developing
A new OS X version
Of it
But they just
Announced that
It's not going to
Happen basically
Because of the
Licensing issues
With Microsoft
So I mean
Microsoft purchasing
Virtual PC
Basically killed
The competition
For that
Emulator market
You know I know
A lot of people
Don't like
Seeing or hearing
These news stories
And headlines
About what company
Is buying what
And who is
Investing in who
And what company
Is eating up
Another country
And combining
Blah blah blah
I know it kind of
Sounds boring
On the surface
But you've got to
Realize that
The damage
And the reasoning
Behind some of
This stuff
Like the whole
Sko thing
Oh my god
I don't even
Want to start
On that
On this episode
Because I'll
Just go off
On that
What people
Don't realize
Is they may
Not think it
Affects them
But it really
Does
It absolutely
Does
Every time
You go to
The store
Every time
You go to
The gas pump
Every time
You make
A phone call
It has a
Definite impact
On you
And you have
To be aware
Of it
Yeah I actually
Mentioned that
In my
Cyber law class
I mentioned
I started
The new
Cyber law class
And I brought
That up
In class
And I was
Surprised that
Nobody had
Heard of it
Or they didn't
Know the details
Of it
Somebody said
Oh yeah I heard
Something about that
But they didn't
Know the details
Of it
So I mentioned
That in class
So I think
I opened a lot
Of people's eyes
Hopefully
And explained
And the funny
Thing
And I'm sorry
To take this
Off on this
Tangent
But it just
Popped into my
Head
The funny thing
Is the instructor
Herself had not
Heard of it
She's a lawyer
Who knows
Cyber law
But she's not
A tech person
So she had not
Heard of the
Story either
But the funny
Thing was that
I told the
Whole story
I explained
You know
The whole
Situation
And again
I'm not
Going to
Rehash it
All here
But I also
She kind of
Everybody was
Kind of
You know
Found it
Interesting
There were a
Couple questions
And she raised
Her eyes
Was like
Wow that's
Interesting
I snuck in
At the end
Since it is
The same
Interested
I added
That little
Conspiracy
Theory
About some
People thinking
That Microsoft
May be
Well the
Conspiracy
Excuse me
The conspiracy
Theory that
They're hoping
That they get
Bought up
By IBM
Or Microsoft
Or one of
Those companies
Microsoft has
Already just
Decided to
License
So that was
A stretch
Anyway
But IBM
Possibly
Buying
SCO
To avoid
The lawsuits
And the
Licensing fees
It might
Just be
Cheaper
And easier
For them
To just
Buy the
Company
Up
And a lot
Of people
Think
That conspiracy
Huh
You can't
Beat them
Bile
Exactly
And the funny
Thing is I
Mentioned that
To my
Instructor
Who knew
Nothing
About this
And knew
Nothing
About it
And I
Even prefaced
It by
Saying
Listen
This is
A conspiracy
Theory
This
You know
I'm not
Saying this
Is right
But some
People think
This
And she
Kind of
Rubbed her
You know
What
That's
Absolutely
Not a
Far-fetched
Conspiracy
Theory
At all
It's not
And I
Was surprised
That someone
Who was not
On the inside
Because you know
We have a tendency
To get biased
A little bit biased
Sometimes
Because we're so
You know
We have such
Loyalty to some
Of these things
So close to
Everything
Exactly
When an outside
Person
Also agrees
And says
You know
What
That does
Sound pretty
Realistic
There's some
Credibility
But for that
Absolutely
Alright
I didn't mean
To branch off
Of that
But I think
We kind of
I think we kind of
Beat a dead horse
Anyway
I mean
I just want to
One more thing
About the virtual PC
Is that
Honestly
Most people
I know
That use Macs
Don't even need it
Even if they're
In a Windows
Environment
Say at work
Because most
Every application
That you'd ever use
In Windows
Is either available
For the Mac
Or there's
An equivalent version
Right
And I've said
The same thing
About Linux too
I mean
Everything
You know
People think
Oh Linux
Doesn't have any
Software for it
You can't play this
You can't play
Well no
Yes you can emulate
You can do
All that stuff
Now everything
Is becoming
Interchangeable
Now what you
Can't do
And gee
I wonder why
Now Linux
You can emulate
And run
Windows applications
On Mac
You can emulate
And run Windows
And Linux applications
But guess what
On Microsoft Windows
Can you emulate
And run Mac
No
Not that I know of
Can you emulate
And run Unix
No
Well there's some
There's some ports
But there is not
Emulation
Gee do you think
Microsoft would ever
Do that
Hell no
Gee why
Why would you want
To run anything
But Windows
Exactly
So it's funny
That the rest of the world
The rest of the OS
Community
Is evolving into
A unified direction
While Microsoft
Is still holding on
To that
Just that monopoly
That they have
That we are the
Center of the universe
And we are not
Going to
You know
Anyway that's a
Whole nother show
Basically
You know the moral
Of the story is
And this is the reason
I really wanted to
Spend this time on it
And thank you for
Doing it is
Macintosh
Is cool again
It really is
Five to ten years ago
It was the biggest joke
I mean you've got to
Be honest
Dark ages
It was the biggest joke
It was awful
You had people
They didn't know
What they wanted to do
Honestly OS X
Between the IMAX
And the OS X
That's what saved the company
The IMAX
Made them pretty
The eye candy
To get people back
They made them
Back in the public eye
And then OS X
Made them useful again
Usable
I mean OS X
For all it's fault
It was still a really
Good operating system
It was far more stable
Than Windows ever dreamed
Of being
It was far more secure
OS X is far more secure
Than Windows will ever be
But it had its problems
If you had an application
Crash in OS 9
Basically it brought
The whole computer down
It didn't have
The protected memory
You couldn't
It didn't really have
True multitasking
So if you were say
In Photoshop
Or even doing video
And you were rendering
A huge video file
You basically had to
Sit there and wait
For it to get done
You couldn't do anything
Else with the computer
With OS X
I think Windows
Has some multitasking too
You could be having
That chug away
In the background
Doing whatever it is
You're doing
But you can go online
Check your email
And it doesn't
Phase it a bit
And you're
For me my productivity
Has just gone through
The roof
Using X
As opposed to 9
I could do so much more
At the same time
Well I mean I guess
You it's kind of
It's probably a bad
Metaphor to say this
But it's kind of
An equivalent to
Windows 95
I mean it was
A huge change
In thinking
Of how the OS
The underlying thought
Of how the OS works
And the nature of it
From Windows 3.1
To Windows 95
But it was buggy
It was full of errors
It was full of problems
For all the good things
That it brought
It still had crashes
And you know
Stuff like that
And it sounds like
The same thing
That's a perfect analogy
In fact I've actually
Used that before
Plending it to people
And ironically
I find that
Windows users
Who switch to the Mac
Now
To OS X
Have a far easier time
Navigating and learning
To use OS X
Than OS 9 users
Who switch to OS X
If that makes any sense
Well I
You know
I play with it
At the
Compusa
And Best Buy
And some places
Like that
And you know
I thought it was
Fairly intuitive
I didn't do anything
Detailed on it
Of course
Because I do not
Own one
That I can sit there
And hack away at it
But
Just like anything else
Unless you learn
You know
You play with it
That's the only way
You learn
Is to sit there
And play with it
And see what it can do
Right
But one other thing
I will mention too
As far as the hardware goes
Is you don't really have
To worry about
A lot of the things
You do with Windows
I mean
I've limited experience
On PCs
But enough to know
That I mean
Basically anything
You want to do
You have to really
Mess with the BIOS
If you want to boot
From another
From a CD
Or another drive
An external drive
With a Mac
It's
You basically
Just hold down a key
When you boot up
And more or less
Ask you what you want
To boot from
Alright well
But what about this
What if I wanted
To add another hard drive
A second hard drive
Because I was running
Out of space
Is that something
That's easy
If you have a G4
Which you can put
On the G4s
You can put up
To four drives
And the new G5s
You have to
Put down the Compusa
Get an ATA drive
Open up the case
Slap it in
Format it
And you're done
Now an ATA drive
Has to be
Is there like
Some kind of
Mac certification
Or will any old
ATA drive
Old ATA
And that's a big
Misconception
People
Will only use
A Mac hard
Well that's why
I wanted to bring that up
I had heard that
It's a Mac hard drive
And you buy a G4
It's going to have
An IBM or Fujitsu drive
And you just go down
A Compusa
PC compatibility
As far as a hardware
Go 100%
The same components
The same RAM
The same video cards
I mean you can't go to
Oh there's a caveat
With the video cards
You can't go down
A Compusa
And buy a Radeon
9500 for Windows
And have it work
In your Mac
There's specific drivers
And there's a couple
Specific AGP
Things
That you really have
To be Mac specific
But as far as
Hard drives
RAM
That's all
Interchangeable
So
If you're going to do
Anything like
A video card
Sound card
Something you should
Probably do a little
Research online first
Make sure there's
Drivers
For a sound card
You really don't need one
I've never known
Anybody that had to
Put a sound card
In their Mac
Because they come with one
If there's a sound card
Integrated into the computer
But if somebody wanted to
If you wanted to get
Like a sound blaster
Or something
Yeah
Hardcore gaming
Where they wanted
Digital
Find out
Make sure that there's
An OS X
Specific driver for it
And honestly
A lot of the
Say like the PCI cards
That are out there
Nowadays
Like a SCSI card
OS X has a lot of
Those drivers
Already built into it
Because I went
And got an
Adaptic 2906
I think it was
For my scanner
And I put the card in
And just boot up
The computer
And the scanner
Just worked
I didn't have to
Configure it
It just knew
That the card was there
Because the drivers
Are already built
Into the operating system
Same thing with printers
You can get
Basically any USB printer
Plug it into
An OS X machine
And it's just going to work
Right
Well
You know
USB and Firewire
Are just
You know
Godsends
As far as that goes
Definitely
Alright
Well
You know what
Again
The moral of the story
Mac is cool
Hackintosh is back
I'll say it like that
The Hackintosh is back
And actually
You and I
Had talked about this
Offline
I guess we can mention it
We were actually
Going to start trying
To have a regular
Hackintosh
Macintosh section
In Binary Revolution
Starting with the next
Issue hopefully
So
There's not just the
I mean the iPods now
There's a whole
Hacking
Oh yeah
Of genre right there
There's people that are
Writing entire operating
Systems for them
Based on XML
Well I think the iPod
Is cool by itself
Oh definitely
You know without any
Hacking
That's a cool item
It's a cool device
That works well
A lot of storage
Small portable
It's already a great
MP3 player as it is
So
You can use it as a
Hard drive as well
But yeah
The fact
The power
And the things
You can do with that
Yeah if you do some
Some searching on the
Internet you'll find
A lot of interesting
Stuff you write
Let's move on
To some actual
News topics
We don't have
Too much time left
But I'm going to
Hit a couple
Quick things
Like
There is
I read this
And this kind of
Made me a little
Bit mad
There is a
Phenomenon
There's a trend
Going on
Where companies
Are starting to
Pay people
Instead of giving
Them a paper check
They're actually
Starting to pay
People with a
Prepaid card
Or a prepaid
Debit card
Or a paycheck card
They have different
Terms for them
Where they actually
Give employees
A Mastercard
Or Visa
Backed
Debit card
With their money
On it every two
Weeks
Or an account
On Mastercard
Visa
Where every two
Weeks they just
Deposit and add
Money onto it
Have you heard
About this before
Not until you
Mentioned it before
The show
But I have to say
That really bothers me
When I first read it
I thought it sounded
Pretty damn cool
I thought it would be
Interesting
On the surface
It does
It saves you a trip
Like
First of all
The people that
They're doing this
With are basically
Minimum wage
Or low wage
Employees
So first of all
You know
The market
That they're doing
This with
Is very precise
As far as the bankers
Everywhere I've ever worked
I've had direct deposit
Right
And you know
Even where I work
They're requiring it
They can't legally
Require it by law
But they try to
Heavily influence you
Into getting it
And they say
That it's required
Even though they
Couldn't legally back it
But there's a deposit
And you will like it
Yeah
You have no choice
The companies
A couple of the companies
Using this are
McDonald's
Blockbuster
And Sears
And right now
Over a million people
Are using this
And I think it's
Big on the
In California
I think is where
They're really doing
A lot of this
And they're expecting it
To go to 3.5 million
By 2006
So they're actually
Planning on going ahead
With this
Now the problem
With this
Because like I said
It sounds great to me
Give me a credit card
And you know
The idea of having
A debit card to me
Having all my money
Portable
Take it with me
Wherever I go
Swipe it
You know
I like the idea
Except for the
Privacy concerns of it
That was my issue
With it
That they were able
To track how you
Spend your pay
Now the privacy concerns
We've well documented
Those in the past
But they've been around
For years
And they're going
To be around
You know
American Express
Keeps the database
And sells it
All the credit card
Companies
They know what you buy
That's how they
Sell your names
As targeted marketing
They know if you
Shop at electronic stores
You're going to get
They're going to
Sell it to electronics
Companies to send you
Junk in the mail
And get a Best Buy
Frequent buyer card
And programs like that
I'm trying to figure out
Why I get all these
Adam and Eve catalogs
Though I can't figure
That one out
Oh yeah
I wonder
Maybe because their
Logo is the Apple
And you use an Apple
Maybe that could be
There you go
Don't ask me how I know
That's on their list
That's a whole other story
The bigger problem
I have with this one though
Is in the details of it
As it turns out
Well for example
The whole process
Of paying somebody
On their paycheck
The whole process
There's software behind it
The people that they
Have to pay
To work in benefits
And payroll
And stuff like that
It averages out
That it costs them
About $2 for every check
That they cut
So if you have
Lots of employees
$2 a check
You pay them every week
Every two weeks
Whatever
That can add up
That's a cost
That the company incurs
Well all these damn
Cost saving measures
That everybody's
Trying to take
They're trying to
Redivert costs
Away from themselves
That's what this
In essence does
They're able to
Outsource or use
These prepaid cards
Cheaper than having
To cut checks
They can pretty much
Outsource a lot of
The work to
MasterCard and Visa
As far as the
Accounting and stuff
Like that
And for them
It's much much
Cheaper to use it
They end up saving
$50 to $100 per year
For each employee
$50 to $100 savings
For each employee
And when you're
You know
The McDonald's of the world
The Blockbuster
You have a lot of
Employees that can add up
So from a business
Standpoint you can see
The idea of
How much money
You would save from it
The problem is
That the cards
Themselves
The execution of
These cards
Is such that
Okay you give
Somebody a card
Here's how much
You made
And we put it
As debit on this card
Well when they go
To try to use
That card somewhere
Like everybody else
The banks
Anybody who has
Bad banking
Knows that if you
Use an ATM
From someone else
You're going to
Get hit with fees
You know
You get hit with
A buck from that
Bank or two bucks
From that bank
And two bucks
From the owner
Of the ATM
You know
So they start
To pile up
What ends up
Happening is
The people who
Are getting these
Cards
End up paying
Such outrageous
Fees
To have this
Account
That they're
The ones that
End up incurring
That you save
Fifty to a hundred
Dollars for each
Employee from the
Company
It ends up
Costing them
And this is
The estimate
This is from
Consumer Reports
Magazine
They estimate
That it costs
A hundred and sixty
Four dollars a year
In transaction fees
Average to the
Employee
So you save
Fifty to a hundred
From the
Employer
But the employee
Ends up losing
A hundred and sixty
Four of their
Hard earned money
And somebody
Tried to tell me
That shit doesn't
Roll downhill
I mean
This is ridiculous
I don't know
You know
It's been a problem
In IT world
For years now
You can't justify
The IT department
They don't make
Money per se
In most situations
It's a
You know
A money pit
You have to have
But it's a
Necessary money
Well I know
But see
There is that
Double edged sword
Yeah it's necessary
But the higher ups
They don't quite
Understand that
You have to have
A computer system
To run
You know
Well I'll use
My example
A university
You have millions
Of students
You have to have
A computer department
To maintain
And run all that
You can't do that
Manually
But at the same time
How can we
On the bottom line
Say hey
This is how much money
You spent
You know
How many million
On the IT department
What did we get out of it
You can't say
Oh well
We run the university
That's you know
It's an intangible thing
You can't say
Here's the bottom line
We made
This many million
Back for you
It's a money pit
You have to have it
A necessary evil
To function
And it's the same
With HR department
You have to have people
You have to pay taxes
On these people
You have to
Take care of all the benefits
People run the software
Do all the data entry
To make sure
They're
Complying with
State laws
And federal laws
And make sure
There's a lot of stuff
That goes behind
But you can't justify
That cost
You can't say
Okay what did you guys
You know
We paid this much money
In salaries
To the HR department
What did you get back to us
Well we paid the employees
You know
It's a necessary evil
Well yeah
That's true
But just like in IT
When you can't justify it
They start saying
Well you know what
I don't think you need
As much money
As you say you do
They start cutting
And they cut back
Your funding
And they cut back
Your funding
And the same thing
Could be happening here
They're cutting funding
From these things
And they have to start
Saving money where they can
Well what that does
Is it ends up
Screwing the employees
And they are consumers
In this particular circumstance
They should end up
Screwing the employees
And passing the costs
On to them
Well they're already
Low and minimum wage
Employees anyway
They don't need
This extra fees
And crap loaded
On top of them
That's ridiculous
And they have no say
In it either
That's the thing
Well it's either
Yeah quit and go
Somewhere else
You know that's
Your only option
In such circumstances
Like that
And you know
If this keeps taking off
Like it is
To 3.5
You know how many
They're going to
Just go from one company
That does it
To another one
I hope this doesn't
Take off
I really don't
Or if it does
They need to work out
Some better deals
For the employees
Work out
Okay
You're going to
Put it on the debit card
Which again
I thought it was
A good idea at first
In theory
I like the concept
But you've got to
Work out a deal
With MasterCard Visa
That says
Don't charge them
These fees
If we're going to
Do it
Do it right
All right
We're going to
Charge you
To get paid
Yeah
That's another
Way of looking at it
And that's
God how tacky
Is that
That's wrong
I mean that's
More or less
It goes back
To the old
Back in the old
Mining days
The company store
Yeah
That's pathetic
You'd end up
Working a week
And ended up
Being deeper in debt
$4
I mean for some people
That's like a weekend
Of overtime
Just to pay these fees
I would hurt
$164
That's
Jeez
Forget about it
Now
And the other thing is
In general
Debit cards have been
Becoming more popular
Because they are handy
You know
They're convenient
You got it
Like I said
I thought it was
A good idea at first
I'm waiting for
Some big announcement
Some big news story
About
Some debit card fraud
Some kind of hacking
Some kind of transaction
Something
They're going to blame
Hackers for
Making fake
Debit cards and stuff
You know the
Credit card writers
Are cheap
You know
They're out there
They're nothing new
Carders
People who card
Have been around
For a long time
Carders
The information
Is out there
People know how to program
They know this kind of stuff
I'm waiting
I'm just waiting for
That hasn't happened yet
Not yet
I'm just waiting
It could happen tomorrow
And it wouldn't surprise me
It could be a year from now
But I'm expecting
Sometime
You will see a headline
It's only a matter of time
You will see a headline
Sometime soon
That something happens
That they're going to find
A lot of fraud
They're going to find
A lot of
Card reader
Because if you're ordering
Stuff online
It doesn't know
Whether it's a debit card
Or not
If it's a Visa debit card
From what they call
A check card
From your bank
It's a Visa card
It's a Visa number
Some of the sophisticated
Ones do actually
Some of the more
Sophisticated ones do
Because those first
Six numbers
Are
Well without going
Into a lot of detail
Those first numbers
Usually indicate
What type of account
It is
And you can sometimes
Tell from the structure
Of the numbers
What kind of card it is
Now whether or not
They have software
Smart enough to check it
On their end
Or whether they're
Running some old software
Or some custom software
And stuff
That's a whole other issue
But
All you really need
Is a number though
And you can run up
Somebody's account online
Very easily
And that's kind of scary
Well and there are still
Again I don't condone
I'm not condoning
The use of them
But there are still
To the state
Programs that will generate
Valid credit card numbers
You know
So you don't need
The card itself physically
I'm predicting that
The physical cards
People are going to start
Making
Fake
Counterfeit
Debit cards
That's what I foresee
So
But you know
Any ideas kids
Yeah
No we're not
Again we're not condoning
We're not saying
But I wouldn't be surprised
If that doesn't happen
I'm actually surprised
That somewhat
That hasn't happened yet
And you know
It might actually
End up being
Those disgruntled employees
That research
And do this kind of stuff
Because
That's a very good point
You know when you rip people
It's just like
I'm not going to go
Into an RIA rant
They have very much
To lose
And you still
Take from them
Then they kind of
Get desperate
Yeah it's like
The RIA
I hate
Harping on it
I'm not going to go
Into it
But you rip consumers
Off for years
And years
With the price of CDs
And finally
The consumer said
You know what
Fuck you
We've had enough
And they used
Their technical ability
And they got back
And now you have
MP3s taking off
Like they did
Peer to peer file sharing
People making their own
They took
And empowered themselves
And took it back
And you're going to
Rip off your employees
Which again
They're sort of
A consumer in this
Circumstance
They are going to
Become disgruntled
And they're going to
Say you know what
I want my
$164 back
I should have
$164 more
On my paycheck
Per year
And that's just
Not right
And you know
They have every right
To feel that way
I completely understand
I really do
Hopefully like I said
That will not take off
But predictions are
That that's the way
Things are going
So I don't know
And you know what
We're probably
Long on time
But I'm going to
I'm going to do
This one last
I'm going to end
On a happier
A funnier note
Well actually I don't
Know how funny
This ends up on
But a New York
Man pleaded guilty
To installing
Keystroke recording
Software in terminals
At over a dozen
Kinko's stores
Well gee
We come first
Full circle
We started off
Talking about
Kinko's
Now we're back
To Kinko's again
He gained
Personal information
From over
450 users
And opened
Bank accounts
Using the data
Wow
Now of course
The term
Hacker
You know
Actually
I kind of
Laughed at this
I thought it was
Actually interesting
It was kind of
Funny
Until I got up
To that whole
Creating fake
Bank accounts
Thing
That's where
It lost me
That's kind of
Pissed me off
Across the line
Obviously
But up until then
It's like
Okay
You know
Keystroke recording
That's been going
Around for years
We've done that
Everybody's
Well not everybody
But recording
Keystrokes is a way
That you find out
Passwords and stuff
Like that
There's hardware
Recorders
Software recorders
This is nothing new
It's just kind of
Funny that somebody
Got caught at it
But then again
What he was doing
With it
That's where I
Didn't like it
So it's kind of
A lighter note
It's kind of
A funny story
But there's
You know
There's a moral
Here
There's a warning
If you go
To well
Not only to
Kinko's
But to any
Public place
Like you know
Who the most
Vulnerable
Would be like
Those cyber cafes
Those internet cafes
Those would be
The most vulnerable
The easiest
Probably
You really need
To be careful
But any public
Kiosk
Any publicly
Accessible kiosk
Be careful
You know
Don't
There's no harm
In turning and looking
And see if there's
Any unusual hardware
See if there's
A hardware recorder
If there's a software
Keystroke recorder
There's not really
Too much you can do
About it
If it's been
Planted on there
You know
Unless you really
Look hard
You might not
Be able to find that
But you know
Never
You never hack
From a public place
You never go out
And give private
Information
Credit card stuff
From those type
Of locations
Anyway
I always talk
The rule of thumb
On that
Is like
Don't
If you're using
A public computer
Don't use
Don't do anything
That you wouldn't
Want anyone else
To know
Absolutely
Most hackers
Know that
Yeah
Most hackers
Know that
This is
You know
This is just
You know
Preaching to the choir
But yeah
I mean
To people out there
Who are listening
Who are not
You know
Hadn't thought this
Through
Or who are
Do not consider
Themselves hackers
Yeah
You gotta think
These things out
Don't do something
That you don't want
To be caught
Anything that you do
You have to have
The mindset
That if you're
In a public place
Well
I guess
There's no other
Way to say it
If you're in
A public place
You're in
A public place
And you have
To behave
As such
Anything that you
Do in a public
Place
You have to assume
Whether you're not
Whether you are
Or are not
You have to assume
That A
You're being watched
Or recorded
Whether it's on
Film
Cameras
Something like that
Security
And that holds
True for the
Internet as well
You have to assume
That everything's being
Logged
Transactions
Data
And everything
Is being watched
You know
It's 1984
Totally
It's 2004
20 years off
You know
It's almost 2004
In a few more months
And Big Brother
Is watching
Little Brother
Is watching
I guess
Is a better term
The Little Brothers
Are all watching
So anyway
That was kind of
An interesting
Little tidbit
So I'm
Big across state lines
Yeah
You know
One time
I read this article
About this ATM
And it was spitting
Money into the street
That was me
That was me dude
That was me
No okay
We're going to close
It up for this episode
I don't know how much
We're on time
We're probably well over
But I'm going to
Wrap it up now
You have any shout outs
You want to give
I want to give
Shouts to everybody
In DDP
You guys are awesome
And thanks for all
The great feedback
On BinRev
And definite big
Shouts to my friend
Sony
You're awesome girl
Yep shout out
And we're going to
Both smoke up each
Other's ass
I have to throw it
Back to you
I mean
You know
Again I feel like
I'm pushing a lot
Of work on you
Because I know
It's hard
And takes time
So I appreciate that
I honestly think
That's the nature
Of the business
I'm used to it
It's not work
It's not stress
It's a blast
Well I don't know
What we do without you
I got a shout out
To Cy Pete again
I mentioned earlier
That I had a
I thought one of the
Best meetings
Because we actually
Walked through
Doing something
And it wasn't
Like a formal
Fancy presentation
It was just a
Hey let's do this
Kind of thing
I had a good time
At the meeting
We had quite a few people
Surprising interest
In the magazine
Is growing at my meeting
At first
It was kind of like
Oh yeah
Somebody else
Trying to start a zine
Somebody else
Trying to
There was more interest
This time
And hopefully
It will continue to grow
So shout outs
To all of my
Broward 2600 meeting
Oh shout outs
To Decoder actually
I had a good talk
With him on the con
So thanks a lot
To Decoder
For hooking up
The conference call
I'm going to try
To start doing that
Regularly on the weekends
When I have free
Weekend minutes
On the old cell phone
So shout outs to him
Of course
I always mention
At the end of the show
If you have feedback
Letters at
Binrev.com
And you know
Again
The gentleman
Who
The anonymous
First early
Who was interested
In the Dreamcast
I really would
Like you to get back
And follow up with me
And tell me
You know
What you found out
And if you were able
To get this working
If he has an article
I already got some
Great graphic ideas
For that
If you can get that
Up and running
Great
That would be awesome
So again
Shout outs to everyone
That you mentioned
And do you have
Any other closing comments
Oh just thanks for having me
On the show
Oh no
We're going to try
To get you on
More often
And you know
We talk about
I know you have
A lot of Mac
And there's just
So many Mac questions
And not enough time
To do it
So we're definitely
Going to be talking
About that
In some future episodes
So we're definitely
Going to have you back on
It's just got to
Work out the timing
Of when
Because you and I
We you know
We both work a lot
In getting those hours
Settled out
So we're definitely
Going to work you
On the show more
Oh it's real world stuff
Really it's boring
I know
Doesn't it though
But for some reason
It just never goes away
Yeah
Alright
And
Tonight's closing music
Is Mr. Roy
Shake your body
Mommy
And that'll do it
So to everybody
Listening
You know how we end it
See you next week
Same hack time
Name that channel
Outro music
Thank you.