Get ready to rock the planet, get ready to rock the planet, the digital dog park presents
binary revolution radio, now launch the base
Get ready to rock the planet, get ready to rock the planet, get ready to rock the planet
Hack the system, hackers unite
Get ready to hack the planet
Hack the planet
Hack the system, hackers unite
five, Hier тебе
Go up, go up go up
Up, go up, go up
up, go up
Black, go up
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Big.
Game track the system
Go up, go up
Work the planet
Back where's the world
So quick,го up
And the finish
Kids night
Actors unite
Act the planet
Act the system
Get ready to act the system
Get ready to act the planet
Act the planet
Get ready
Act the planet
you are listening to binary revolution radio revolution will be digitized
this is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers
to the hackers and the crackers i see in binary i speak source code step on my toes i'll post a
million jpegs of you in a fag pose in your digital stance getting firewalled ho because i'm riding
the net in my six foe i was a dick with my 56 now with my cable i'm able to get that stable on the
out my name is ace and i'm a leo on the digital highway my name is neo and i'm a hero in a flash
i'll school you on burning dream caps you need some iso let me through my hard drive rifle our
exchange you could never stifle and a digital hug you just caught the love bug i bootlegged your cd
i caused the fight between un and jc your cg it's all gonna be free whether we take it by force or
we take it nicely you feel that rattling your bones when i tell you we just hacked out jones
and nasdaq leaves you flat on your back because i am he who loves to hack and crack
because i am he who loves to hack and crack this is dedicated to the hackers and the criminals
serial codes source code isos rams sips sips this is dedicated to the hackers and crack
welcome to binary revolution radio episode number 15 i am your mc the man in the center stage the man
with the top hat direct your attention to the three ring circus behind me where i am joined this week by
the spectacular amazing voodoo hal in the house what's up everybody back again had a good episode
last time and had some topics that i thought you and i could expand on again this week so um back on
again hopefully more often as well i think we probably because this is one of the topics that i think you
and i both can agree on and talk about together um jump right into the email that we got this week at
least one um we got an email from lock um and actually about it was after the show after the
last show that you and i did together sent us an email um and of a question that frankly we get a lot
at least i i get a lot um the long and short of the question is the old college versus certification
question should i get a college degree is it better to go to trade or technical school is it better to
just get the certifications and stuff like that um and we've been through this in the forums before i've
had personal emails to me in the past asking this question and i thought it'd be good to have you on
the show and and talk about it open up the show with this topic because it's very obviously a lot of
people have this question and don't understand people who haven't been in the tech industry
so i think maybe we could clear clear it up once and for all so to speak or at least give our opinions
on it not that that's necessarily the end all be all um i guess you know i think why don't you start
with this because i think you and i probably will agree on this pretty well but for if it comes down
to a simple question what's what's which choice would you make coming out of high school would you
start into college in a computer field or would you put money into going on a certification spree so to
speak well personally i i believe that college holds a lot more weight than certifications do um
you've been in the industry a while so you know basically before the dot-com flop um certifications
were heavily weighted by just about everybody and that's what was kind of scary um and that also
created these places where you could go 10 grand down and you come out with a certification you may
not know shit about what you're talking about but you've got a certification and i think now that's
caused so much problem that certifications aren't really worth that much of anything without a degree
to back it yeah it it really it is true i mean if you've never taken a certification
it basically goes like this you you will pay for a class kind of similar to you as the same thing
you would do at college except these classes are very much oh gosh i can't even think of a good adjective
to describe they're very linear very focused and very linear linear in the subject matter
um they will give you a book or two that are start at chapter one page one and just start reading
straight through the book now they will sometimes have classes to go along with it uh the majority
of the ones i've seen are for the most part self-taught uh you may come into a class every week or every
two weeks with questions or something like that but for the most part it's an all on you so um
college is like that too i mean it's very much different than high school you're going into college
you're going into the real world everything is on you you're not going to have teachers there the
next day to say you know where's your homework you know where's that assignment i gave you
it's going to be all on you to study either one of these but even worse than the certification
field you have a tendency of putting that book down when you get home and um the way it works is on a
set date two or three months later you will go in and you will take a test that is very literal
and in my opinion does nothing more than test your memorization skills from what you went over in
those books i've met a lot of people that have certification and they can ramble off and memorize
every port of every whatever but then you try to ask them what it's used for or what that means
and and stuff like that and they they really don't know so there's good knowledge to be had there but i
don't think it can stand alone well i think higher education also helps for understanding of what you're
talking about um most of the certification classes seem to be pretty test centric um they want to teach
you how to pass the test it's all about money um as long as you know how to pass the test that's all
they care about they don't care if you know the subject matter down to the core they just want you
to pass that test and academia i mean that's the great part you may you may start up slowly and you
may build on that but you understand what you're doing you're not just left in the world with these
certain facts about how to do something and not really know well what do these do well ideally
hopefully and therein comes in the factor of quality of schools and quality of education
there is a difference between one college and another some are good some are not
you know and instructors within the college there are some colleges are very bad but they will still
have good instructors so um it is a an issue of balance like everything else um i know a lot of people
i've spoken to hate college or have hated college in the past because they didn't feel feel that it
taught them enough application college in my experience is very much teaching theory teaching
fundamentals teaching a foundation and basics for which you to understand for which you are to build on
to expand on that knowledge so to me it really is a natural progression from high school to college
if that if that is what you're going to do if that's your plans or your you know what you're thinking
about go into college and you're going to build on the foundation from high school i know you don't
might not believe it right now and you're thinking you're trying to escape from high school but believe
it or not you are going to move on in college and they're going to teach you fundamentals and basics
and i'm you know assuming most people listening to this are going to be engineering majors computer
science computer information systems majors you're going to move in and you're going to start with
very basic stuff your first year or two you're going to be very um frustrated with college because
they're going to go back and teach you fundamental networking and fundamental programming concepts and
fundamental operating system interaction that you already know but they need to reaffirm that and
reassure that you know those fundamentals as it moves into some of the higher level classes
um like i said with the certification it's memorize this and we will test you on it and give you a
uh a sort of a certificate so if you don't like the idea of you doing a lot of theory and not enough
application you might want to combine the two because again you and i we we've been in the technical
field we've been in the industry for a while and i know absolutely undoubtedly for a fact that
a college degree opens the door definitely it absolutely does i mean it may be my opinion on
what's more valuable or what might be appropriate to you is your decision to make but i can almost state
almost as a matter of fact that without a college degree you can have all the certificates in the
world but without that college degree they don't know that you have the foundation
that they need to get the job done they know that you can memorize very well because you've memorized
for that certification and how long ago did you get that because most majority of them only last a
limited time you know some people will cram i know people that just blew me away they would spend one
night studying the night before the test and memorize everything come in and ace the test and
then the next day no joke they can't tell you the first thing about what they just studied
yeah i've seen that quite a few times as well so and that's just the next day when you got these
certificates you know a year later six months later even you know if you don't use all that kind of
stuff you're not going to remember a lot of it so the value of them is you know it's hit and miss
are they a good thing absolutely education in any way shape or form is a very good thing
but personally my opinion and my advice and please feel free to correct me or disagree with me but my
advice is if you're coming out of high school or even if you're not even if you're just considering
going back to high school or start or going back to college or starting college for the first time
or you know you have these options in front of you i recommend going to college even even if it's
just for an associate's degree a two-year degree if nothing else at least go get that
and then at the either afterwards or in best case scenario if you can afford the the time to do it
take a certificate certification class or two while you're in college treat it as though it's a fifth or
sixth class that you're taking and when you come out you will have a college degree and certification i mean
a plus certification is you know not that difficult um there is a lot of memorization to it don't get
me wrong it's not simple but um i think you will be learning a good combination of theory and
application and you'll come out better in the long run definitely more complete yeah because
majority of jobs are going to say first and foremost the minimum requirements you must have a bachelor's
degree you must have an associate's degree or equivalent something like that and certificate
certification will not substitute for that equivalent experience might but again it's hard to get that
experience without that degree in the first place so it's one it's a catch-22 definitely want to get a
degree and get your foot in the door um tech schools and trade schools are very risky um they usually have
job placement services that are very helpful they can put you directly in a job as you graduate
because employers know that you've learned very specific things that they want and they need and
have relationships um they can get your foot in the door and get you a job and build up some
experience that later on when you try to go for a job that wants a bachelor's degree or four years of
experience you can cut you have a little bit more wiggle room there you can always say no i went to a
trade school but i've been in the industry for four years or eight years or whatever so it that also is a
good option you might consider a technical or trade school but i still say the number one option would
be a college degree yeah definitely i've actually got a family member who went to one of the larger
trade schools um i'll keep the name out just in case but for thirty thousand dollars he ends up
getting an associate's degree and has absolutely no idea what he's doing none but i mean i guess it
depends on the school right and yeah and then again and you know don't belittle the fact that um
the choice of school that you go to makes a difference um i know mute is taking it very
seriously and has been putting applications and congratulations to him he's got been accepted to
a couple different schools so he can kind of make some good choices um that's not to say there's anything
wrong i went to uh the first school i went to i i don't want to get into my whole personal whining or
whatever but i started off at a community college for whatever reason financial reasons and i got a
better education there then i ended up going to a four-year institution now i've been since then to a
couple other four-year institutions here and there but i had a great community college when i went up
there's nothing wrong with a community college if anything i could recommend that to people because
like i said when you go in and start taking classes the first thing you take are going to be
fundamentals and basics everybody has to take english one writing 101 whatever they want to call it
english 101 writing 101 composition 101 whatever they want to call it you're going to have to take that
no matter what it might be a good idea especially and very very economical to go to a community college
and take some of those classes make sure they'll transfer over to your college of
choice when you're ready but take a couple of those basic classes maybe the intro to computer
classes and stuff that you know is going to be simple and transfer it over and you'll save yourself
a lot of money in the process and you'll get a good feeling good introduction to college smaller
classes you know it's there's a lot of important decisions to be made at this point in your life
and um don't belittle it don't belittle it my advice is um check out local colleges make a decision on
what direction you want to go and certification should really be secondary in your mind i think
oh man boy we jumped into a serious topic to start the show off how'd that happen
at least we got it started on the right foot yeah i hope so that's you know that's serious i really
don't want to belittle it that is a very serious question and i get it a lot and that's my answer
college is first and foremost in my opinion and dual and i have talked about this briefly on the show
before you and i have now talked about this we are people who've been in the industry in the forums
we've talked about you know take it from people who have been there you know other people that go to
a tech school or go to a certification classes and go to college they're in the middle of it and
they're kind of biased they kind of are not sure how it's going to affect them because they haven't
been out of it yet we've been out of it we've been there we've been to colleges we've been to
universities we've been to trade and tech schools we've been to certification seminars and classes
i know the weight that all of them carry and after the fact you've heard my opinion so we won't beat
that horse to death um i'll move on to some uh some more housekeeping stuff um when you're listening
to this hopefully knock on wood hopefully um i will have updated binrev.com to hopefully the final
steady version where i won't have to be doing this maintenance every single weekend and changes and
updates as as the regular listeners know i've been slowly moving things over to this new host
i've got most everything moved over at the same time i was taking some stuff off of stankdawg.com
and moving them over to binrev i want it to be the one central place for everything and um i am pretty
much done with that the last and biggest headache of all of them was the forums itself were the forums
themselves so i did that this past weekend and they seem to be up and stable um i will change the links
on the site i will add the gallery to the site it should be done again knock on wood by the time you're
listening to this so that's what i have been doing um i put up a redirect page on the old stankdawg.com
anybody has links to that um it's going to come up it's not going to automatically redirect you
okay you're going to have to click on it i might change that i'm not sure but um if you if you go
to the index.php it does automatically redirect you so anyway i'm going to be redirected but if you
can change any links going to stankdawg.com forums um please leave links to stankdawg.com if you wish i
would still love to have that but maybe add one to the binrev.com site as well um and that i guess
it's a good segue into what i've been doing this week because i basically just told you um adding
all this stuff to the site and updating the site and everything um i put up a couple weeks ago i
mentioned on the show that we i finally put up the gallery uh kind of a little project that i thought
would be kind of fun and um that still needs some organization done to it but more importantly than
that i have a security issue on that as well um and it's not such a bad thing really i mean
i knew going into it that the potential existed i was going to basically i created some forums
i i guess i shouldn't call them forums galleries is what they're called i'm not quite comfortable
with that term but i created some galleries that are owned by the admin and then within those galleries
i was i intentionally opened it up to let everyone have read write access to that so i my envision was
that anybody who wants to can create sub galleries and upload pictures to those galleries and um you
know add to the site add content to it and um share with everyone and the people in the forums i trust
you know i know some people have been having some fun with it lately and and i don't mind that at all i
really don't so if anybody misunderstands that but what it did realize what it did open my eyes to was
that the people in the forums are going to play with it that's fine but there's also nothing stopping
anybody from coming outside of of the doghouse anybody coming from outside of our little circle
and coming in there doing the same thing and they might not be so playful they might not be so um
um they might not have that hacker ethic of not destroying the place where you hang out or not
destroying you know things that that other people are using so i'm faced with a dilemma now of how to
handle this i could lock the whole thing down and create accounts and stuff like we do with the
forums but unfortunately the software is not programmed to do that and yes i could write a lot of
a lot of routines and stuff to do that but it's just very time consuming and i'm basically
writing the software for them or writing a whole module and plug-in for it and it's just way way too
time consuming so i got to come up with a way to allow people to put posts in there and upload posts
maybe i should put like a holding area i mean have you been following this do you know i mean do you have
any advice on how i should i was thinking of maybe putting a holding area that everybody could upload to
and then only the admin or only a few select users could move them to the proper forums you know
what i'm saying right i was thinking the same way like uh with some ftp sites do with an upload
directory and that's the only thing you have right access to which makes sense in a way um it does
bring depending on how many pictures get posted you know it does bring quite a bit of work onto you
or some of the some of the other moderators right but i think that would be the safest way to do it
yeah it would but yeah you're right it would be a lot of maintenance for me
and when people post or upload pictures they like to at the same time go over to the forums and say
hey look at my screenshot i just posted here's the link well then i'm going to go behind them and move
it which i did earlier this week and forgot to tell the person or forgot to update their link in the
forum so start moving stuff around and you can't really rely on the links and that's a problem too so
it's it's like um you know there's no happy solution here so i'm going to be thinking this
through for the next week or so if anybody has any suggestions or ideas i'd love to hear them
um maybe gallery is not the software package that i should be using
um i might also be looking for something if i can find another similar package that supports
user accounts and therefore accountability um maybe i'll just try a different software package
all right so that's an option too maybe if you had a way to uh for instance rather than just
requiring registered users because obviously if somebody wanted to do something you can come on
and register and post or post images away maybe if you could do it based on user count or i'm sorry
post count so for instance if someone had more than 20 posts and you know that they're active on the
list but i don't really know how that would how the other people would feel about that yeah and i
again i could write that i could i could check against the forums database there is a table with
the username and stuff like that and i could query against that validate authenticate against that
and um but i mean again that that entails writing a module to do that and and then plugging that into
the existing gallery software right so that is not exactly a small undertaking even though it seems
like simple straightforward software it just shows pictures it's not never never as simple as it looks
what is it written in php it is majority of it is php but another thing i was surprised and a bit
disappointed that was that it doesn't even use um i was expecting it to be a mysql database or post
gre or something it doesn't it's basically um a flat text file a flat file with some settings on it and
um kind of on the fly data uh directory reading and stuff so it's not exactly as deep and complex as i had
hoped but yeah the majority of it is written in php so i like it a lot though i do like the
functionality i like having the pictures when people have uploaded pictures of their desktops
some screenshots stuff like that very cool stuff to look at um and i think it was decoder had said
you know he might have some clip art to put up i was thinking of making a clip art gallery because we
could use it for the magazine we could use it for anybody writing reports for school and stuff like
that you got clip art that you can put in there would be great you know it's not just photography
and pictures it can be you know pretty much anything we want to upload so um so far i'm cool and i think
it has a lot of potential i'm very cool with it i hope it uh i hope it grows i hope people start
taking advantage of it i think once i put the link up on the nav bar so there's much more easily
accessible and much more visible because right now it's out of sight out of mind so people don't
visit it a lot but i think once we get it up it could be very very cool um another housekeeping this
is kind of a big one actually i got an email this week from rant radio and rant radio is making a
pretty big change in their structure um we'll give more details later but the short version
well you can go to you can go to rant radio.com and check it out for yourself but the short version
is that they're going to split their channels up they're going to split to the rant radio
industrial channel they're going to basically they're going to separate the music from the talk
shows so i guess i guess it might it probably is frustrating if somebody wants to come listen to
um the music and all of a sudden we interrupt with binary revolution radio as we do uh every tuesday
night then it could be frustrating for them and at the same time people who are tuning in to listen
to the radio shows whichever shows they're listening to there's a lot of great shows on
rant radio they might not be a fan of that particular genre of music so i think it's actually
kind of a good idea they're going to separate the talk shows i guess for lack of a better term i hate
saying that it makes me sound like oprah or something but separate the talk shows of the
discussion the analysis whatever to separate the ranting the good shows um to a different channel
separating good music to a different channel so people can stay tuned in to one or the other
and uh one of the things one of their goals too is to be able to replay the shows more often
so as soon as this comes to be i will of course announce it and put up new instructions i don't
know how the servers are going to change if if at all so we'll address all that when it happens
um but i wanted to kind of put everybody let it put everybody on notice let them know that that's coming
um let's see um not that anybody cares but i got an a on my cyber law test i've been talking about
my cyber law class lately um i it's kind of funny because one of the topics one of the biggest topics
we constantly talk about is copyright law intellectual property law in general so before i go giving away
any of the questions or information on the test i'm going to i'm going to touch base with my instructor
and get permission to use that stuff on the air or maybe on the site um it's a four question essay
test it was very interesting and very interesting and um i think it's something that actually the
listeners would be interested to know there's some surprising information so i might uh share that
and um what else oh or also i i probably should have mentioned this last week i mentioned going to
halloween horror nights in orlando um but on the way it was a very it was a very fun trip because we i
did not rush we just took our time driving up there and we stopped at all the rest stops along the way
and the truck stops and stuff like that you can find a lot of interesting stuff and we stopped at some
of the rest stops along the way and there's a kiosk at pretty much every one of them um i do not
know the company i did not write down the name of the company these places are packed there are so many
people on this on this uh highways and stuff that this place is just packed with people so we didn't
have a whole lot of luxury to play too much but um basically through the kiosk you could order
tickets to disney world and places like that there was it was things that you could access for free
um local store information i think there was you can access a map of the local area stuff like that
um and then it also functioned like most internet kiosks where you pay for so many minutes and you
could get internet access to check your mail and stuff like that um a i didn't see anybody paying to
use any of them at any time uh maybe because we were on it a little bit but even so we were standing
there watching and eating um i never saw anybody go up to it and use it so i'm skeptical of how successful
they are but maybe they're not successful for this reason because we went over there and uh basically
by going through the free areas i found a little back door a loophole that would let me out to the
internet without authenticating off of anything so that was pretty handy i posted to the forum um
basically by going through some of their local sites i went through actually one of the one one of the
examples i got through was cnn.com they allowed you to go to cnn's home page to see news headlines
well also on cnn headline also on cnn's uh home page is a google search link so by the google search
link when i search for my site bam i bypass authentication because it still thinks i'm going
through um cnn.com and you don't have to authenticate through cnn i'm actually cnn is acting as a proxy
server for me so it doesn't know that i'm actually off of cnn it puts it within a window with a cnn logo
and it still thinks i'm going through cnn.com which is a free area as far as it's concerned so it's it's
not exactly uh rocket science but um it is definitely a big loophole that they missed and um worked
consistently on every kiosk all the way up there so that was very fun i love i just love kiosks
i love playing with kiosks i was always i've never found a kiosk yet that could stop me
i actually i hate bringing this up again because but i apparently i'm so permanently traumatized thank
you again decoder while i was on the kiosk i briefly considered and not only did i consider i actually did
it i loaded up the picture and i'll just leave it at that the picture the weightlifter
and mr v tech and i went and actually it was his idea he made me do it i'm going to blame him
i brought it up on screen and i was going to just walk off and leave it there for all the world to
enjoy but i couldn't do it i couldn't and put that kind of torture on anyone else i mean i wouldn't be
able to sleep i can't sleep a night anyway i sure don't want to put that kind of torture on someone
else and there were there were children around i don't want anybody to see anything like that i don't
want an adult to see anything like that but i did think about it it was kind of funny we joked about
it but i didn't actually go through to do that i wonder if the traumatization you would cause would
be considered an act of terrorism because i'm sure you traumatize lots and lots of people yeah that's
even the ones trying to close the browser itself yeah right um it probably wouldn't have stayed up
that long if i noticed if you left the thing idle for too long it would go into demo mode and
restart from its home page so it probably wouldn't have stayed up but maybe a minute
but yeah it would have been long enough somebody would have seen it probably and there's there was
actually a big um plasma screen above the monitor uh above your head so that people behind could see
but it was not a mirror of what you were doing on the screen it was just an ad something was feeding
uh advertisements and commercials to it so it would have really been disgusting if i could have brought
it up on big full color plasma screen for the whole room the whole building to enjoy
that's just evil yeah yeah um well let's yeah let's get off of the evil topics what why don't you tell
us i know you've got big plans coming up this week why don't you tell us what you've got in store
uh right the 24th through 26th of this month is uh hacker con in nashville by the name of freak nick
uh hosted by the southeast 2600 group it should be a lot of fun um
yeah i i wish i could go i'm you know i'm in the southeast you think i should be able to make it but
i'm just not going to be able to make it unfortunately that's actually a pretty pretty decent drive for you
um yes it is i'd like to get as many people out from the ddp as possible but everybody's so spread
out trying to get to tennessee for anything is kind of maybe not difficult but you know yeah
it's unfortunately it comes back to the old majority of us do work for a living work all day and getting
off of work and working our schedules together is tough um i don't it's not a we don't have that
luxury of dropping what you hey you want to go do this this weekend sure and we just take up and leave
it's not quite that easy anymore so um maybe we can plan i know we've already discussed and
and planned on going to the next hope conference whenever they announce it or whenever it and wherever
it happens to be i'm sure new york again um and for the next defcon but i guess we got to start
planning these things out ahead of time and um also i'd like to start planning on maybe working
out some presentations for them as well but you know we got to we got to do it ahead of time
unfortunately i don't know if that's a sign of old age that we have to schedule and plan
everything or sounds like a yuppie kind of let me pencil you in muffy i don't know if i'm going
to be available that weekend but unfortunately that is the way it uh that's the reality of the world
right now but you are going to meet weren't you you were going to meet up with a couple people
there right um yeah lock i'm i think we're going to be splitting a hotel room with uh benny lock
on these forums now all right we're just we're just talking about hopefully somebody else will
show up yeah oh i'm sure there's going to be plenty of people there um yeah maybe we should
send some um copies of binary revolution huh might be a good possibility to get some of those out get
the word out i am volunteering at the door so yeah that would be very cool very cool we got to think
you know i might we'll have to talk about that after the show i didn't think about that but that
that's definitely an opportunity there oh and how long is that you said it was the 24th is that
yep friday saturday and part of sunday so you're going to be heading up thursday or friday i'll be
heading up friday right after i get off work because i get off at 7 a.m so yeah been there done that i'm
so glad i'm not back on that again um and then you i assume you'll come back sunday
after work after the thing's over or yep actually i just come back sunday to go straight back to work
oh that's going to be a good fun whoo yeah oh boy next the weekend after that we'll make sure not
to disturb you and let you sleep it all off the weekend is when i work oh wow yeah when yeah you
have to get some sleep in there sometime um you you know the last time you were on the last time
you're on was the infamous halon incident and at my expense you know i don't mind telling throwing
myself out there for the joke but this time you had a deadly deadly incident yourself didn't you
have an incident did you want to share that with the class um i don't know if i want to share it but
why not um yeah i had my own deadly halon incident about a week and a half ago sitting down there
in my office about two in the morning and uh yeah the fire alarm system goes off oh you gotta
love that it happened it's the first time it's often so it took me a couple seconds for anything
to register i'm like what's that sound and right about that time i realized what it was so i'm a
pretty big guy so i take off with a full sprint toward the exit door and unfortunately we have
the uh proximity doors the ones with motion detectors that unlock themselves that are magnetic
well if you ever ran into one of those very quickly you know that there's a little bit of
latency between the time you pass the motion sensor and the time the door unlocked well i rammed the
big metal door at full speed knocked myself right on my ass see you were so blinding fast that the
motion sensor you you were just like the flash man you ran past it so quickly it hurt that's all i can
say well outside the door and the engineers are staying there going oh sorry we didn't really know
anybody was here now how can they not know that somebody is there's somebody there all the time
they should have known they've set you up is what it was probably they had an interesting look on
their face it probably didn't set me up yeah did you did you confirm that the door sensor didn't go
off maybe they were just at the other end with their shoulders against it to block it well the joy
of this place is that those doors are so screwed up on the timing i mean every once in a while you'll
go to the door and it'll take five seconds to open so but i don't know they probably were
disabled the motion sensor on the door what about a uh a power outage if the doors are electronically
unlocked how do you get through in a power outage that i don't know but we had a you could be trapped
in there my post uh on the board about that we did have a power outage um probably i guess a month
and a half ago now and uh i was so traumatized because i was sitting in the pitch black i didn't
even move so i don't know yeah i had and i had that before i've had the pitch black before um in the
middle of the night and like when the halon incident happened to me it was like i was completely asleep i
was just sleepwalking for the most part so it was it's i can very much relate very much relate now
luckily for me when i hit the door i pulled an oj simpson spin move and ran out you unfortunately
pulled a i don't know what you pulled you you hit a linebacker or something exactly uh well so you
have to go with my deadly halon you have the deadly running into the door story so what that'll
that'll be archived forever in binary revolution radio episode 15 um yeah and you know to confirm
yeah that the halo is a scary thing the halo the halo is a scary thing yes it is um we all right
let's we're joking we're laughing which we do a lot sometimes but you actually told me something i
know this isn't a new thing that happened recently i know we're kind of we're talking about what's
normally we talk about what we've been doing recently but you told me something off the off
the air earlier that i think maybe you should bring up because a lot of people might not know this or be
aware that this could happen you were telling me about some the drivers can you can you go back
over that a little bit the drivers you were you were trying to remove you're working on uh sure
um basically i had a radeon 9000 pro video card for a while and uh was decided to run linux on this
box because this was my this was my gaming box it was the only windows box in the house
and unfortunately the agp dart i believe it's what it's called in the kernel support wasn't quite
working for this specific chipset it was an nvidia uh a7n 8x motherboard so the nvidia released a kernel
patch which was all good and well except for the the better drivers for the card were on a completely
different kernel version then the patch was released for so i decided to try to patch the
kernel and then update or patch the kernel with the driver update and then update patch it with a real
patch to that newest kernel version which at the time was 2.421 well between the two versions they
had changed the data structure on one of the or changed the structure of one of the they changed the
structure of one of the structures and the kernel itself so i decided well i'm good with c i can handle
changing this data structure around a little bit making it work well i got it to compile right what's
the what's the worst that could happen right exactly i mean it was a simple simple change
and what happened next was kind of scary um it came up actually it worked in x mode and i'm like great
and i got it working my first kernel hack ever but then i want to reboot it the uh anything that was a
console or text based um like the bio screen the post messages um hell console terminal everything
had this weird like mesh look um it was so bizarre it actually damaged the card i could take it and put
it in different machines and it would still have the same problem wow so you actually because of
because of the driver because of the hack that you did you actually somehow damaged the hardware from
that exactly and that's really what we want to warn people is that that's can happen i guess
um you're controlling interaction between a piece of hardware and software that's what the driver is
for it is software to allow communications between the operating system and the hardware
so i guess that means it can be bi-directional you can send stuff to the hardware which could be damaging
i guess is that yeah that's pretty much what happened is that our theory of what happened there
yeah i mean i honestly can't explain how it happened i've never never thought it could happen that way but
sure enough did that seems like it i don't know what else it could have i mean a total fluke but i
doubt it um yeah i think what i think it's what you said is right on the money i think that's exactly
what happened so the moral of the story is just use the factory default driver or you're going to be
at risk of causing damage because i know like you said you're very proficient at sea you know what
you're doing and sometimes you just can't account for everything so i'm something must have slipped
through there was a good side to it though i just had to replace the car i didn't end up buying a
9700 pro so yeah but then again the bad side is you spent how much for the 9700 300 but we won't
talk about this actually i have a 9000 in one of my boxes as well and luckily i haven't had any
problems with it so that's a good thing um let's move on to some news topics um i got a couple quick
little things i want to touch on um actually this is not i don't know how quick this is going to be
this is pretty serious since i mentioned my cyber law class um i've been focusing a lot more on
on issues that are related to law and things that need to be addressed things that need to be talked
about um and one of these things and we've brought this up in our in our class as well as on the show
and this is something a lot of people heard of um and that is um licensing agreements
or eula eula la end user license agreement shrink wrap agreement whatever you want to call it
tons of different names but basically the agreement that you abide by when you purchase a piece of
software um particularly when you buy something off the shelf which i know a lot of people i don't know
how how much software is bought off the shelf much anymore with online ordering and downloading and
stuff like that but um for this example we'll say when you go buy something off a shelf you go buy
whatever it is actually i i have a specific story here i'm going to share with you and this is not
unique that you can find a lot of stories like this but this particular one caught my eye um and this
was from network associates um someone went and bought a piece of their software and this was a magazine
actually um bought a piece of their software off the shelf to review it for their magazine well buying
software off the shelf and even when you download it you get that page of crap that nobody ever reads
you know it's like pages long about what you can't do this and copyright that and you're not allowed
to do this and blah blah blah well that is a bunch of legal mumbo jumbo but it does stand up in court
and that is what cyber law is all about is teaching what that stuff means why you need it what you can
and cannot do with it and stuff like that well most of these end user license agreements have a lot of
a lot of um verbiage in there that prevent gives them control it's all about control it's all about
control gives them a lot of control over what you can and can't do with and here's the key word your
software or is it their software well you can and cannot do with the software that you download or
buy in this particular case the network associates ended up suing a company because they gave a bad
review on their software in that end user license agreement when you open that software it says in
there that you have agreed not to benchmark that software and that's exactly what they did they
benchmarked it compared it to other similar software packages and posted the results and gave it a poor
review saying that it was the worst of the bunch network associates filed suit against them saying
that they were not allowed to do that they violated their licensing agreement um by performing a benchmark
now i'm sure that if they would have been on the winning end if they would have been the best software
and they got the highest ranking i bet you they wouldn't have sued they would have overlooked it in that
case but because they were on the losing end of it they were able to sue for breach of contract under that
um licensing agreement so all those pages and all that stuff you see when you download stuff or when
you sign up for anything i mean let's be realistic even i admit i don't read a lot of it i read more than
most people especially if it's something serious or important um a lot of times i'll download stuff and
don't care about that because what are they going to do you know how they're going to find me and what am i
going to do with it but they are really pushing their luck with what they can get away with in licensing
agreements and they've pushed it so far now that it's become an issue of free speech specifically this
network associates example the magazine said that they have a right to free speech they have a right to review
the software and post their results yet contract law is on the side of that software company because
when you open that software you are agreeing to a contract with them to abide by those rules that
they put on the front of the package so you don't own the software and this is something we've always
complained about in the past that you don't you don't own the music that you buy you're borrowing it you
have the right to listen to it but you don't own it you don't own the software anymore you have the
right to use the software this is a fundamental problem because the law a is not written for that
and b and this is of course an opinion situation it shouldn't be you should own that software again
that's my opinion and i'm not going to get into a big soapbox about it but do you think that they
should have that much control and a licensing agreement how do you feel about them telling
you what you can and cannot do with the software and the actions that they can take against you if
you violate them well i agree to a certain extent in which they can control what you do with their
software um but not to that extent i mean that's that's infringing on their freedom of speech
i mean that's it's almost ridiculous to even think about that you know a company could basically say
well if you purchase our software you can't speak bad of us you know that that's pretty much what
they're doing here that's exactly what they're doing here i mean if microsoft would have done that
in there as hell we'd never have these problems yeah right we'd never know about them exactly
exactly and that's you know that's a kind and this is not a an isolated case this is just one that
caught my eye you can go look and search and you will find other examples about this another thing
another thing that they put in there all the time and this is the one that really i have a big issue
with it always says okay now like you said there's some things that are okay some things you expect and
understand you know you expect when it gets when you get that um license agreement that it says that
you can't um resell copies of the software you can't make copies and resell it you know that's that
makes sense that's expected and understood you know people can debate whether or not you know
the free software should be free and all that that's not an issue but it's not surprising to see
that in a licensing agreement do you think no not at all that's something that's typical um
and you can't take and modify it and put your name on it and resell it as a different you know stuff
like that some stuff that's obvious but one thing that they put in there is that one of the rules
are one of the things that you cannot do once you get it is reverse engineer that software you
cannot decompile it that's in almost every licensing agreement that you'll ever see or find you do not
have the right to decompile reverse engineer that software now ingenuity and invention in this country
has a lot of dependence and foundation on reverse engineering and hopefully next week i if i talk
about my cyber law test we actually had a question on there about reverse engineering and it's very
appropriate to this i wish gosh now i'm thinking i should have saved this for next week maybe i'll
bring it back up but reverse engineering is how a lot of people learn how things are made and then
improve on them there are countries japan hong kong there are countries that have made their bread
and butter on decompiling reverse engineering finding out how things work and then improving them and
making them better you know electronics we in the united states come up with a lot of electronics
breakthroughs that we never use that we hardly take advantage of we touch the surface
and these companies overseas will take it pick up the ball and run with it figure out how it works
and then actually apply and create new products and stuff with it so um reverse engineering is very
important to be able to do and in these shrink wraps they're taking that away they're saying that
you can't reverse engineer it now like i said earlier not being able to change it and sell it with your
own name you know their exact code is one thing but to see how it works there's two issues there one
you know the the issue of open source and knowing what's going on and what's behind the scenes
and b a right to disclosure to know what the program is doing and what it's accessing i'm sorry but i do
not trust microsoft they tell me that no private or personal information is being transmitted but how do i know
that i would like to have the option not that i would have the technical ability
or the time to go down and go through all that code but i would like to have the option and the opportunity
and the right to look at that code to see if what they're telling me is true
and they they take that away that's one of the many things that they put in the end user license agreement as well
and there's a lot more um that they put in there that i am going to save for the next time but um
yeah i'll bring this up i'll bring this up next week i'm going to try to talk about some of the
questions and some of the things we've talked about cyber law we'll make we'll make next week the cyber law
episode and talk about some of this kind of stuff um but for now i'm going to move on to another topic
unless did you have something you wanted to add about that or
well yeah the last thing i wanted to add was it's so much like and i've i've read articles on this
before and it's so true that over the last 20 years technology for us is it just increased
so exponentially that law really doesn't know how to handle it um intrusions in the system they're
still still iffy about um the thing though and an analogy that i think would be good in this case
could you imagine a world if this this continues in this way imagine a world oh you buy a car
and that car is completely under lock and key you're not under the license agreement for that car you
can't open the hood you can't do anything to it you have to take it to a license dealer or dealer uh
repair facility i mean that just moves the way if we continue in this route that it's going to go
now that that's actually a that's an excellent analogy if you couldn't fix your own car figure
out how your own car works and how to improve it because you know i've i've mentioned briefly on the
show it's another topic i'd like to cover on the show one day is is how to hack your car for lack of
better terms there are people that modify their car and find many just tons of ways to get more power
out of it to make it more efficient to make changes to the car and that's an excellent analogy that not
only can you upgrade your car can you make it better can you improve it but fix it you know just
figure out how it's you know what's causing the problem and facing it yourself instead of having
to take it to a licensed dealer just like you have to do with your you know you have a uh your laptop
breaks down you have to take it into an authorized repair center because you don't have the information
to do it yourself well yeah that that's that i like that that's a very good analogy very good
um i will i hopefully will we can talk on that more next week um i'm going to move into another
copyright topic although this is not
well i'm not going to tie this into cyber law again but
let me let me pose this question to you a database is a database something that can and
should be copyrightable i it's a it's a vague i know it's a vague question but can you copyright a
database of like like for example here's an example how about the phone book that is a huge database of
phone numbers so we're talking about the data with this that resides within a database well you tell me
um i could see obviously copywriting the database software but the database itself the data that it
holds i don't think so i mean does it depend on the nature of the data there's nothing really to
copyright in my opinion i mean it's a collection of data um it's not an idea it's not so it wouldn't
fall under intellectual property right it would have to be a creative idea for copyright to really
take effect creativity i mean that's that's asking a question well i've got this stack of paper
technically it's the same thing as a database it's not in an electronic format but hell the freaks out
there with their freaking notebooks technically that's a database database of your notes can you
copyright that well and should you should you be able to to me i say no i mean i just i i can't
imagine how you could they could even have a ground to even attempt it well all right let me let me try
to make let me play devil's advocate let me try to think of an example what if um what if you
sat at home and oh my gosh make an example on the spot let's say you sat at home and analyzed how many
uh okay you sit at home and you watch television every night for a week and you sit there with a
notebook and pen in the paper you pour over television you count how many males and how many females are on
television and their age brackets and you gather up all this information so that you can sell it to a
company for their marketing and you're able to say to them oh you want to sell toys well here saturday
morning has the most children watching and has the most children on television or if you want to
market to 20 somethings you might want to try this night you did this data that you found yourself by
watching television should you be able to copyright that data that you just found i don't think it
or should you be forced to turn that over you should be able to copyright it but i don't think
that for instance if you sold it to and i guess it comes back to user license agreement if you sell it
to someone do they have the right to resell it well and you could that would be a contract that
would be contract law you would work up a contract for something like that but the data itself and
and that's kind of the fundamentals of this case there is an act before congress night right now it's
called well this is like the longest name for an act it's called the database and collections of
information misappropriation act god i want to buy a there's so many vowels in that i don't i think i'd have
to i'd miss that one on uh what is this show wheel of fortune yeah i'd never get that on wheel of
fortune the database and collections of information misappropriation act and what it basically means
is is the question that i just presented is if a company takes time to create a database um should
they be able to copyright that information now the example i just gave which i just made up um
is based on public information what you see on the television show sitting there watching for a
week and you write it all down well that is technically public information anyone could have
watched that and written that stuff down the fact that you did it is a credit i guess and you should
be able to sell it or whatever i guess but copywriting it you by the letter of the law the way it is now
you cannot copyright public information no matter how you format it you can make it into a database
but the bottom line is it's still public information everybody can see and tell how much is there like
a phone book and that's really one of the first big cases about it was that the phone companies made the
phone book and no one else could make a phone book phone book well that's public information phone
numbers are available to anyone and everyone and courts found that other companies were allowed
to make phone books of public information you can't have a copyright on public information
and that's what's going on here um if you were to make a database there was an extract of public
information for example um um you know when you get we've talked about targeted marketing before
targeted spam targeted uh um phone calls sales calls um i recently purchased a car that's public
information i registered that car registration is part of the government part of the state and that's
publicly available to anyone and verifine knows all about it now brother don't even get me started on
that information is public information and cannot be copywritten no matter how much you format now you can
pay or you can take the time to create a database of only car owners in florida or only homeowners in
in tennessee or something like that but can you copyright it do you have to share it is it something that
you can protect legally and that's what this act is saying this act is trying to say that if it
it's basically wants to institute and i mentioned this earlier in the show on a different topic but again
it's a it's a it's another level of control they want to put in more control for people
to copyright these databases what about what about a place like um what about google what about google
google.com is a search engine full of public information verisign like you said it's public information
website addresses should google be forced to share all that information
i'm kind of playing devil's advocate here you're trying to see both sides of the story
it is public information they should not be able to copyright that or should they
i still say no but in the case of google since google does everything and then they copyright that
to know we're screwed well you know and and there's also another issue of in that particular example
i would argue that they're not they are making it publicly available because they are a search engine
after all you can go and search and get the information from so it's not like they're keeping
it from anyone they're not trying to copyright it per se um so i would say that it's still publicly
available through them um so i don't think copyright is an issue but what if they were to start
charging for it what if you had to pay a penny for every search that you did should they then
be able to copyright that information or should they be forced to share it with everyone else
so anyway i kind of see what some of the thought process is but i i'm with you i don't agree with it i
think it's just a another level of control and we already have way too many as it is you know so i i hope
this doesn't doesn't go through although i don't know that i'd necessarily be opposed to something
if they were to do something i don't know come up with a happy medium
i mean you know most hackers live by the philosophy that data should be free
all data should be free now i'm not naive enough to believe that all data is ever going to be free
but this is one case where i think public information no matter how much work google put
into it no matter how much work these companies put into extracting that information out fundamentally
it was public information to begin with and i don't think it should be copyrightable
well the one thing i i this is the reason why i doubt that this act would be passed
did you imagine the chaos and trying to sort through that well who owns this piece of this type of
database who owns this type right and no one can own data
yeah no one can own data no one can own data um and this actually i think it was 19
1999 maybe even earlier than that they tried a similar act it was um
gosh i do not remember i'm on the spot here i do not remember what it was called the last time they sent it
through something about piracy it had the piracy in the name of it something um
oh gosh anti-piracy act of something that was along the same lines and it it did get shot down
it did not pass successfully and hopefully that happens in this case too but apparently some people think it is
worth creating an act over so some people must be for it and we know
large stakes and uh things like google exactly and you know and this is where the corruption and i'm not
going to turn this into a big everybody knows how anti-government i am sometimes i'm not going to go
off on it but this is how situations arise now you've got special interest groups i don't know google
i'm not accusing them but the potential exists for them to go and lobby and put some money in to make
this happen so that they're able to copyright their database that brings about an interesting
question once the data is owned by a private company then it's no longer public so to have a
database of public data would be almost a contradiction in itself well it could be easily defeated that's
why it's it's also kind of silly from a business standpoint to put too much effort into it um they're
talking specifically think of it as data mining um and actually since i'm some people might not be
familiar i'm going to back up data warehousing and data mining data warehousing is the act of just
building this huge database of every bit of information that you could possibly come up with
and well let's let's defer back to the phone book everybody's phone number around the world
and their names and their addresses and whatever information they collect huge database a data
warehouse well in the state of iowa i've never used that one on the air there's a good example in
the state of iowa they don't care about all the other states phone numbers for the most part the
majority of people only care about what's inside the state or their surrounding areas and um what they
will do is data mine that data warehouse to come up only with local specific data that would be of
interest to iowa and that is the database in question yes it's derived from public information as you said
but it doesn't necessarily become private it's based on public information but it was work that was put
into it to come up with this result and do they have a right to copyright it just because they put in
that work anybody else should also be able to go to that database and data mine themselves the exact
same information anyway so it's kind of a moot argument it's kind of a silly thing to make a big
deal out of because it can be recreated from public data but that's really what they're getting at when
you do spend time money and effort as a company to data mine for information like i said before i bought
a car recently if they want to go and data mine anyone who's bought a car in the last six months
you know they can do that should they be able to copyright it no anybody else can do it anyway
they can also further data mine well who bought a toyota who bought a toyota in the state of florida
who bought from this particular dealer who bought the four-cylinder who bought the the f-150 truck with
the dual can't you know they can data mine down to such precision that they feel i guess that by
putting all that time and money in they should be able to own copyright to that information
and it just logically and technically doesn't seem like there's much fundamental fund basis there so
i'm willing to bet that uh verisign is probably one of the backers of this act it's amazing how much
private data they have um i don't know if you know how much that they have private information
on you but i have a great example um earlier this year i was having to go through some website and
they required me to go through verisign to verify my identity so i call up their operator and they're
like and their first question was all right what's the account number for your student loan that you
got earlier this year what i nearly shit myself i don't know that and i kind of held you know that
that was a private institution oh that's scary seriously they have a lot of private data that i
don't know how they legally have well depending on what kind of student loan it was if it was from
the government it is a matter of public records so but the question is why would they want it and
why would they have it why would they go looking for it right and that that to me that's pretty damn
scary that's very scary that's very scary and i've mentioned before that um american express is very
big about that they keep a huge data mine and they sell it out to advertisers focused on age groups
and who buys electronics sure we'll sell you a we'll data mine you uh uh some information to sell it but
that's not public information that's their user information it's not publicly available so that's a
little bit different uh amazon.com they're huge in data mining they're one of the forum they're one of
the um i don't know gosh i can't think of the term they're one of the people that pushed ahead one of
the premier users of data mining when you go to amazon they have such a huge warehouse of what
you've looked at in the past if you go there you'll see last time you're here you looked at this and
oh you might also be interested in that and people in your area also purchase this and here's circles
for that they know neighbor next door just purchased exactly exactly and they keep in data mine and they
do and they tie you to your neighbors they tie you by location they tie you by interest they tie you by
you know they they even and this did not happen to me because i don't buy a lot from amazon i buy
some dvds and books occasionally um i had a friend who bought a dvd player through them and then amazon
knows that you have a player now and starts pushing dvds to you that you'd be interested in
or upgrades to that dvd player modifications and things like that no they know what you buy and they
can start targeted marketing to you now again that's not public information so it's a little
bit different but that is data mining at its best that is that is what data mining is all about now
the question is not like i said the amazons of the world where they can do that with their data
you know whether whether or not it's right or wrong is a whole different topic but can you do that same
thing with public data and that's really what this act is about so um hopefully that won't go through
um i haven't heard anything on that in a week or so so um i'll try to find out see if we have some
closure but you know how these things can get dragged out and changed and modified and it may end up being
not even what it originally started as at some point um i'm gonna touch on one more quick topic
because we're i think we're actually out of time about now maybe over um i saw an ad in one of my
trade magazines for something called e-blaster e-blaster it's a software package from specter soft
uh s-p-e-c-t-o-r-s-o-f-t dot com that records keystrokes emails instant messages both sides of the
instant message mind you and forwards it to an address on a regular schedule and this is marketed this was in
one of my trade magazines marketed towards companies who want to watch what their employees are doing
at work they can monitor you and see what you're doing and who you're talking with and what you're
doing online and stuff like that now we've mentioned on the show on the before right or wrong like it or
not companies do have a right to what a legal right not a moral right but a legal right to watch what
you're doing online and to monitor you when you're on the clock anything that you do while you're working
for them any knowledge that you find any inventions you make you're doing it on behalf of the company
as an agent in the company and they have the right to monitor that type of stuff but the act of what
they're doing recording keystrokes emails forwarding them to a supervisor or maybe just creating a
database of everywhere you go and everything you do last time i checked that was called a virus
and the virus itself is kind of sort of illegal but i guess when you sell it as a software package like
this as monitoring i guess that makes it okay well when you refer to it as a virus it's not i guess
by definition that is a type of virus but that doesn't necessarily make it a virus um that i guess
that's where i would yeah it doesn't it doesn't spread or pop or get propagate you're right but as far
what it does you install that does what it's supposed to do so technically i guess i wouldn't
consider it a virus but um i mean yeah if it weren't if it weren't the owner of the machine
doing it yeah it would be completely illegal now and i assume that's what's happening with this is
there's the administrators are probably pushing it out to the boxes remotely um they probably push out
a client as a matter of fact i think they even said that that you could send it as an email
attachment to your employees and they even uh promoted it as disguised it as something else
when they execute it it puts that on their box without them knowing about it that's why virus
the vision of a virus pops into my head that's the same thing that hackers do all the time we send
the oh yeah here's this great screensaver click on it you know that's the way viruses spread well
that's what this is doing it's more of a trojan than a virus i guess you want to call it that and
and yes it's controlled it doesn't self-replicate so what's actually kind of funny is a company i was
administrator for in atlanta um we had a couple employees who were being watched for i think
honestly i can't remember what they were doing now but uh my boss had me push out sub seven to their
machine and she would use that to monitor the employees wow yeah oh that's kind of scary
um well and you know the other thing about this instant messaging both sides okay you have a right
to watch the employee online and what he's doing ascending but do they have a right to watch who the
other person that the person's talking to well if you take it to a lower level it's still data on their
network and so they still own it it doesn't matter how you know what how it's coming in or it doesn't
matter what it is that they're viewing if they decide to go look at their private banking information
the data that comes across their line belongs to them well i don't know i think i would argue that
i can sit here in my house with the proper equipment and pick up cell phone calls around my neighborhood
that doesn't make it my data that i automatically have the right to own and listen to and keep
but technically it's the fcc's wave well see that's a whole nother can of worms we won't go there but
yeah i mean i don't know that i would debate that a lot i don't like that i don't like that at all
i mean if the guys you know they have a right to monitor
what someone else sends him well okay well let's say that this was on your job they were monitoring
you and you didn't know it and you're talking to me in an instant message if i mention or say
something in an instant message conversation with you
that could come back to get me in trouble or haunt me somehow or something personal or embarrassing
that they now have on me the potential for abuse there is phenomenal that is a huge huge invasion
of privacy if they want to save and monitor what you say what you send out sure but what i send in
i don't know that i'm being monitored it's kind of like um recording a phone call the person calling in
doesn't know that our standards within the stank household is to record all incoming phone calls
they don't know that but that doesn't mean it's okay for me to record everything without without
disclosing it to them right i mean i agree on the moral side of it but when you take it to the
technical level um that's i guess where it becomes kind of vague yeah and i i really i do not know the
answer to that do you know as a matter of fact that since yet i agree with you technically it is data
on their network but whether it was in see the way the nature of the internet is all data passes
through all other networks that doesn't give you the right to sniff in and listen to it just because
it's on your network so i don't know what the actual factual legal right they have on that i get
well actually i guess if for instance an isp um if an isp in their license agreement says that they
that they reserve the right to do that i wouldn't see a reason why they couldn't so they're there
again then they could sniff on that data um but legally i think anything going across a private
network is considered owned by that company they can do with it what they will i mean some large
companies that do uh i think it's called packet uh using packet rolls basically storing every piece
the data that comes across now that that's a scary scary scary thought if i send an email to my friend
in california i send an email to um um dual i send an email somewhere it's going to hit 30 hops along the
way or more and who knows how many phone lines it crosses over owned by how many companies
every one of them has the right because it is data on their network they have the legal right
to store it capture it again i think they would probably have to specify in the user agreement but
if they don't present me with that user agreement i don't know where it's going and it's different
every time so i don't know about that one i'd like to find an answer to that one if anybody out
there knows the legalities of that i would very much love to hear that because i don't think
morally i definitely say it's wrong but i'm not sure that legally they can do that
i think there's too much of a gray area there that they i don't think i think the i think they would
find on the side of the of the consumer on the individuals in that case or at least i'd like to
hope so but this brings up another topic and this is a great point to end on that is the reason
that you use encryption that's why you encrypt your data that's why you encrypt everything that you
send out and everything that you receive encrypt it so that yeah you can have the fucking packets
oh i almost made it through the show without cussing i think i think that was the first one
darn it i think i think oh man oh well you can have the packets but good luck getting into them if you
want it that bad have at it but that's one reason why i want to work for the large majority of the time
when i have my laptop here i'll actually use secure shell tunnels with a fox proxy at my house
and browse through my own home network because it's not that i'm browsing anything questionable
no kitty porn things like that but i mean a lot of sites that i do go to could be considered
objectionable by my boss my boss's boss and that kind of thing
absolutely i'm in the same boat but hey what are you gonna do all right well let's let's wrap it up here
i think we're well over um what's jump you know three weeks in a row i'm gonna do this
uh actually before i do do you have any shout outs you want to give out
uh just everybody on the board all right i'm going to give my shout outs once again three weeks in a row
chicago cubs i don't care what people you guys can laugh and make fun of me superstition exists in
baseball i've said it for two shows now and the cubs are still in there they're up on the marlins right
now go chicago cubs mad shout outs they're going to the world series first time since 1945 cubs all the
way baby shout out chicago cubs you got any feedback letters at binrev.com and i think that will do it
oh wait a minute our closing music dirt from shadow of the locust silent candle thank you voodoo
hal i appreciate you doing the show once again and um i guess to the listeners we will see you
next week same hack time same hack channel later
the silence of the candle
burning in the moon
the silence of the candle
burning in the moon
a smoldering witch he won't snuff out you're walking with your chest out but pride got your heart looking dim
i've seen this happen to many men and many women trembling low self-esteem got the flame flickering and once this happened the traps have been set and the maggots have been letting it's hard to be forgetting but thinking that god forgot you as the devil holds up a hoop for you to jump through hard rock solid sediment and it's hard to break through stare into the eyes of doubt and turn into a stone statue an ember struggling
the saliva from a demon's mouth turns a bonfire to nothing
haven't you cried please send something to deliver me from this
i got caught up in the abyss
and struck with a pestilence
my soul cleave it to dust
and melt from the heaviness
unnerved by the sound
as the city crashes
why jesus suffer through thirty lashes
blood and sweat removed from his divine spine
to add to my spineless dead man raised from a casket
but callousness rusted my progress under a basket
a hidden fluorescent lamp under a bed
i fit dead with insight from christ
locked in my forehead
my soul aching
a cardiac ransack
plaque gathers in my lungs from the smokestack
a pilgrim progress in the right path
but now treating john white cul-de-sac
as a foul spirit twists my direction in the pitch black
it's a shame that i never want to spread his beautiful name through off the streets
it's hard to explain why my speech doesn't reach the ears of lost souls too many years of shedding tears
how do i steer towards obedience without running over millions
i fear to be laughed at like comedians
a human comedian is what i am
and i can't stand that
i do my best to stick out like sammy davis jr from the rat pack
what do i lack
an outer light like an eclipse with nothing to ignite
i fight with this inner force that seems to amplify inside my mind
but i can't deny him
since he manifested in flesh
defeated death with one breath of life
no more silence like calling silence
look inside this candle as i burn with a timeless heat
even if my wick seems to be weak
his wonderful presence appears
length of my feet
length of my reach
only to illuminate a dark and lonely valley of life
its radiant light cuts through darkness like a sharpened knife
it's a pattern
the light beyond in a circular motion like the rings of saturn
i'm a human lantern that was once pictured as a silent candle
hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich
msuu-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich
I open up my mouth, I utter words but don't speak
Most of the time I say nothing, and if I do it's too deep
I'm a creeper, radiohead, wondering what I'm doing here
I don't belong here, and lately it's become ever so clear
I try to find my place in this cold world and found none
So I die to the squirrel, but dying made me feel numb
And dumb, deaf and blind, hands over ears, mouth and eyes
A monkey in the middle, caught between earth and sky
I try to let my light shine, but my flame flickers dim
At times almost fates, still I can feel its warm glow within
There since life was a fire, cold wind blow against my soul
So I rage against the dying of the light, and won't let go
Lord, I know that I have failed you, time and time again
If I transcend every obstacle, will I become a legend like Tanzan?
I try to comprehend my purpose, and while my surface needs to melt
How could a candle be so worthless, all I think's about myself
Why else could you have placed me on this earth but to excel?
To stand that mountain, shout and seek heaven, forsake hell
My lightning whispers instead of yells, and no secrets I must tell
One day this frame will decay, and this flame will burn and not be held
I'm fragile, I'm all heartbreak to the moment of my rest
You see, I'm nothing but a worm as I squirm through the valley of death
Just like Judas with a breath of lies, my own savior I have denied
I can see him stretch from my person as a curse, a thing in which he died
I've cried many times tonight, sighed many times
I talk to talk without the walk, you can hear it in my rhymes
Vicious of my enemy's flesh as I look at my own reflection
Manifest with no direction because I can't stand a subjection
God, can you hear my cry when I set my face towards the sky?
Do I suffer in vain with pain as I'm simply strange as a cry?
Is your son really for me?
Didn't I die for my selfish habits?
Then please tell me, Lord, why get mercy?
You know that I can't hack it
With an angel lying in front of me
Am I just too blind to see it?
I grasp the air with a silent stare
Your instructions can't believe it
I long to stand strong, proclaim your love, but I'm too weak
Now what's this, you call me a mood with the ability to speak?
I'm so ashamed
What we see and what we hear determine the things of which we speak
Out of the treasures of our hearts which we've stored up in each
What we seek is what we find, selfless pleasures for the day
We don't often lift our voices, we're ashamed of what we'll say
What we see and what we hear determine the things of which we speak
Out of the treasures of our hearts which we've stored up in each
What we seek is what we find, selfless pleasures for the day
We don't often lift our voices, we're ashamed of what we'll say
What we see and what we hear
Leads over the things of which we speak
Out of the treasures of our hearts
Which we've stored up in leagues
What we seek is what we find
Selfish pleasures for the day
We don't often lift our voices
We're ashamed of what we'll say
What we see is what we find
Selfish pleasures
What we seek is what we find
Selfish pleasures for the day
We don't often lift our voices
We're ashamed of what we'll say
And the voice within the candle
Whispers of a timeless peace that lies beyond