Get ready to mark the planet, get ready, the digital dog park presents binary revolution
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And to see you night
Act this whole night
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you are listening to binary revolution radio revolution will be digitized
this is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers
to the hackers and the crackers i see in binary i speak source code step on my toes i'll post a
million jpegs of you in a fag pose in your digital stance getting firewalled ho because i'm riding
the net in my six foe i was a dick with my 56 now with my cable i'm able to get that stable on the
out my name is ace and i'm a leo on the digital highway my name is neo and i'm a hero in a flash
i'll school you on burning dream packs you need some iso let me through my hard drive rifle our
exchange you could never stifle get a digital hug you just caught the love bug i bootlegged your cd
i caused the fight between un and jc your cg it's all gonna be free whether we take it by force or
we take it nicely you feel that rattling your bones when i tell you we just hacked out jones
and nasdaq leave your fight on your back because i am he who loves to hack and crack
because i am he who loves to hack and crack this is dedicated to the hackers and the criminals
serial code source code isos reds zip sits this is dedicated to the hackers and crack
captain's log negative 320824.25 i am your captain stank dog and we are boldly going where no hacker
has gone before what is negative 32 star i know i can't do this i don't know what the hell's going
on with this star trek stardate stuff and i can't do a william shatner impression this is actually
binary revolution radio we have nothing to do with star trek um but someone on the show today did go
where well i guess we're not where no hacker has gone before but had the interesting trip actually
where many hackers have gone before hopefully and many will again i'm talking about voodoo how
and we're going to get to that soon um before we do uh we're going to jump into email um i had
and this is very short i we had a few responses from people um on last week's episode who agreed that php
nuke is the suck sore everybody has had problems nobody called nobody emailed to back it up which
kind of surprised me actually um and i got a few messages from people uh who appreciated the
comments i made or the explanation about gpa and how not to put too much weight on it now our guest
today voodoo how back again if you listen to last week's show you'll know what we were talking about
there where i mentioned that gpa is not nearly as important as a lot of people make it out to be
now it's important don't get me wrong but in the grand scheme of things i had given the advice that
it was more important to actually get the degree so if you get a degree with a 2.0 or a 3.0 or whatever
at least you get the degree and make the gpa secondary don't worry about getting a 4.0
in your experience do you uh find that to be the case i was definitely i don't know i'm pretty
anal about my own gpa i've always been that way but realistically it doesn't matter i mean as long
as you get the degree you get the degree it doesn't matter if you're the one guy sitting in the back
with like the lowest gpa of the school you still got the degree exact matters now and agree of course
like you said and there's nothing wrong with wanting or striving for a gpa but for a lot of us
and i say us meaning me inclusive a lot of us when you're working full-time and going to school
and doing things on the side and having a couple jobs it's very tedious don't work yourself into
the ground or make yourself sick or stressed out striving to get that perfect gpa because
it's not worth it to destroy your health that's my personal opinion it's not worth it for all the
aggravation that it may be of course strive for success strive for the best gpa you can get
just don't don't get suicidal or anything crazy like that it's not that important
um so i did get some feedbacks uh from people that appreciated those those comments so i'm glad
that somebody uh helped somebody understand it is it is actually true and you're the third you know
we talked about it last week and you help give some credibility that we are not making this up it is
you know it's more important that you just get the degree and your talent and your skills will prove
that you can handle jobs once you get in the job market now oh and i also wanted to make a reminder
if you're going to send feedback to the show you should be sending it to letters at binrev.com
um any other email addresses you send it to we may not check them as regularly as we do the letters
at binrev.com address i try to check that before we start recording the show each week to see if
there's any feedback and any comments or research i need to do before the next show so if you send them
to some of the other addresses or some of my personal addresses i may not check them all as frequently
as i could and should now um obviously i'm just uh introduced you to voodoo hal is on the show this
week um and he's got a lot to talk about he went on the coolest trip um it's probably better i guess
for the show if i get some of my short little dumbass things out of the way and then turn it over
to you because you spent the weekend at freaknik so i'm sure that you've got lots of stories to share
and probably some that you don't want to share so um when i say my dumbass stories this time i
really mean it i uh talked about on the show last week how um while working on the site i was doing
some plugging in some modules to the um geek log format that i use um content management system
and a weather module well the weather module didn't have my hometown not my hometown where i live
on it so i'm in there going straight to the database hacking away at this thing
and long story short it turns out i am a complete dumbass i never bothered to look at the configuration
for it it has a menu system that allows you to easily add any place you want by just typing in
the zip code and clicking include but of course i didn't do that i went in and installed it and
immediately started digging through the actual database itself and the code i didn't actually look
at the interface like a user should so i wasted time i guess i didn't waste time it was actually
learned a lot kind of fun to do it and like i said before i'm starting to like php a lot more
um and mysql so i felt kind of stupid when i saw that when i went to the site when i went to the actual
user front end of it i'm like yeah i hacked the hell out of this i got what i wanted and i'm like
don't there it was the whole time so i felt kind of stupid um and actually we are recording the show
earlier than usual a little earlier than usual because i'm actually heading upstate
um monday i'm going to be out of town um for just for a day a long long day but one day nonetheless
so we're recording this early and uh so we can stream this i'll be back just in time to stream
the show so um that is going to be a rough couple of days so if anybody doesn't see me or doesn't hear
from me for a few days you know why and i also wanted to mention i mentioned this on the forums
but we also started filming some stuff for hack tv finally now this is the bottom of our priority list
i have a lot of other projects going on we have the magazine coming up again um i've been as everyone
knows i've been recoding of sites redesigning everything and updating and hosting you know
all that kind of stuff so this is on the bottom priority but i finally have made time sito and
myself have been filming earlier this week we filmed a bunch of the intro stuff um it's it's surprisingly
fun i have to admit it feels kind of corny doing it some of this stuff but it's really a lot more fun
than i thought it was going to be i have to admit um hopefully by the end of this year
we will have the episode done edited out the door and everything um there's not going to be any more
teasers or trailers or anything like that it's going to be the final version whenever it gets done and
depending on how much footage we get and how much film we were originally going to do 30 minute episodes
um but we're finding out it may actually be longer than that we don't we i guess we just really aren't
going to know until we get it all together until we get all of the the segments done and edited and
see how it works out so we're not going to even lock ourselves into any lengths or anything like that
we're going to just wing it see how it goes and when it's done i'm almost positive i've already seen
some of sito's work on some other projects he's done it's great work uh he and i are very much
working together i mean it it feels kind of corny i said that earlier it's kind of corny because
we're actually sitting back looking at the camera and thinking okay what angle should we do this and
we got to put the camera here we want to make sure we get this so um it's going to actually be very
well done i think obviously i'm probably a little bit biased so you guys can be the judge when it
comes out but there is some progress on HackTV so i thought I'd share that um again hopefully by the
end of the year so don't get your hopes up too awful much for it being soon but i just want to give
you a taste and finally for me the same thing i say pretty much it seems like every show windows XP is
the suck sore it absolutely sucks so horribly bad again my machine has died it's back up now obviously
because i'm recording but my machine died and it will not reboot it will not come back up the errors
that it gives in the i can boot into safe mode and the errors that it gives in the logs are useless
they're absolutely total garbage and when you go and report them to microsoft and you go look up
support and you go look on technet and you go look on everything that microsoft has the only mention and
you have to look pretty hard to find it the only mention of the solution is to reinstall windows XP
well this that's fine i reinstall windows XP and the next time the system reboots or shuts down
it won't come back up again so i'm not reinstalling windows XP every time this damn thing boots
just not that's ridiculous that's not an excuse so i went out looking on the the internet in general
and some tech support places and i'm not the only person having this problem several people have this
problem yet microsoft has nothing and all actually on all the tech support sites that i found all the
forums all the places i found when i googled for these error messages nobody else had figured out
a solution either so this is just some mysterious microsoft oversight that they just pretend doesn't
exist i guess so we use this time as a plug for open source we absolutely i'm linux right i so badly
want to go 100 percent linux i so i want to get off this so bad i just have this one machine it's the
one machine i record the show on and play games on i'll give you that that's only reason i even
have windows it's the only reason but i can't i just haven't been able to get off of it yet every
time something like this happens that much more that much more it pushes me to just cold turkey
turning it off and saying you know what forget about it but that would sacrifice the show and
just oh it's so horrible of a position to be in that i want so bad to get away and
they keep pulling me back in so microsoft sucks microsoft sucks microsoft sucks microsoft sucks
particularly microsoft windows xp sucks so that pretty much sums up my week
now you as i mentioned earlier the reason i kind of jumped in there i didn't mean to be rude but i
know that you've got a lot of stuff to talk about um particularly and i guess we should probably jump
into this first since this is the most interesting thing i think to our listeners is you spent the
weekend and well at freak nick and why don't you talk a little bit about that uh yep freak nick is um
hacker con in nashville he'll put on about the c2600 uh spent all weekend there watching some great
talk stuff on uh the history of artificial intelligence and where was it again i'm sorry
where yeah nashville tennessee okay um yeah if for all of you who would think there wouldn't be a
hacker con in tennessee think again surprise surprise there's even one in georgia which is scarier i don't
know if there's one in alabama but we'll see take a left at the cornfield turn right at the second
scarecrow exactly and all of a sudden they're a bunch of nerds but no realistically it was a great con
um lots of alcohol i mean uh talks uh i volunteered for the con for a little bit it was it was
interesting um but just a bunch of great talks really um now for for volunteering for the con did
that give you like free pass or free tickets or anything or pretty much they reimbursed me for
the cost of the con which that works i mean it wasn't that expensive to begin with but it was
something i didn't mind helping out oh that's cool how much how much is how much was the con if you
stayed at the hotel for the weekend it was only actually ten bucks so it wasn't like i was
reimbursed all that much but again it was nice helping out um got to really meet a lot of people
that you hear lots of things about um i was telling you earlier we i met the guy with the
whole blackboard thing he's actually really talented now you said um that was acidous right yeah
but overall a great weekend um still trying to recover lots of alcohol again and
yeah now acidous did not give a presentation on blackboard right no but he did do um a surprise
presentation on saturday apparently there wasn't uh anything scheduled for that time so they let him
do a presentation on the art of a hack where he talks about um not necessarily different types of
attacks but mostly the mindset of attacking breaking things down into smaller uh subsections
looking at them at their base levels trying to figure out the alternate ways to get in things
it was a really good talk actually yeah sounds very interesting uh but overall just a great weekend
and um that started on a let's see a friday afternoon you said right uh yep uh we got there about
12 30 the opening talk well it wasn't really a talk i guess it was the welcome started at one
um and they just kind of went every hour after that um great talks uh one on community community radio
panel um i mean it was just really good overall was there any were there any keynote speakers or special
um no mostly everybody who talked was from the um the fc 2600 group um actually quite a few people
came down from like ohio which i don't really think they're part of that whole group but you know
they're close enough to come um the most notable talk for me which i don't know cryptography is
something i really enjoy um and one talk was given called the cryptography for masochists uh
done by elanka if you guys check out www.elonka.com um she's working on she and a group of people are
working on cracking this piece of artwork um that's in the middle of the cia's um courtyard
and apparently the guy's done tons of other types of cryptographic artwork and it's a really
cool project you guys should check it out if you're interested in it um but that was that was
the highlight for me well why don't you explain what exactly is cryptographic artwork um let's see
okay if you guys do a search on google or any other search engine but we'll say google because google is
god uh and look out look for the cyrillic projector c-y-r-e-l-l-i-c i believe projector or cryptos
it'll probably be the first couple of things and you can see images of it it's literally a piece of
artwork with cryptographic messages on it um the projector is beautiful it's it's it from the images
i've seen it's um lit from the inside and it projects at night out onto the walls and you see
and it's um i believe they said it was in russian so you see this cryptographic message in russian
being projected across this area and it's beautiful geeky but beautiful yeah and it's supposed to it's
intended to have message in there yes um actually the on one part of cryptos i believe it was it might
have been the projector one was an an old declassified k-classified memo um that the other the artist had his
hands-on and put it in there the other was uh one part of it one part of an excerpt from them the
diaries of the man who found uh king tut's tomb um it's just really interesting things wow yeah and
one actually involves um latitude and longitude locations which points directly to i think they
said that they went to the locations and it's literally just a manhole cover um i'm the cia's
headquarters but but the passage before it talks about having something hidden underground
and they haven't got to test that or check on that at all but i mean it's really intriguing
but we're not gonna we don't have any conspiracy theories that there's something hidden in there
no no no they're putting out for people right this is the interesting thing though and she talked
about this in her talk was that the artist wasn't the one coming up with these cryptographic schemes
to use the actual person was like the head of the cia's uh graphic part of their the cia uh for years
who retired and who was actually doing the cryptography for it so that was kind of cool
um were there any other um any other presentations that stood out per se or anybody did you meet
anybody else interesting there i know you met up with uh someone from the forums yeah we met lock
there um i don't know he hasn't been very active on the board but he's there um let's see
other interesting things oh the dash pc project the uh computer car stuff there were some tight
cars there very nice yeah and we had talked about this on a previous episode about um you putting
together a ghetto-fied i just made up a word ghetto-fied a ghetto-fied uh car computer yes these
definitely weren't ghetto-fied ah see these were these were the big money stuff huh i mean like one
guy's car he wasn't i mean the car wasn't like high-end car but i mean the work that he put
into it was great um he had one of the retractable lcd displays um i mean everything it was great
they also had one guy with this little miata the miata was had all this stuff worked under the engine
but the computer itself was the part i was interested in but that was probably one of the
most notable quotes that came out of the whole thing this one guy was standing there and he goes
yeah raw ross this boom bob the linux car is great and all but i like the engine
well actually i thought it was funny off offline i think you actually told me a better quote from
the con oh i don't know if you wanted something about a snow cone or oh the the uh hillbilly
hackers is what i like to call them yeah the uh i got a snow cone these these country guys were
running around uh well it is tennessee now oh yeah uh but i'm sure they're from somewhere else
um but yeah running around with alcohol uh covered snow cones so if any of you guys have ideas for
parties that might be a good one that sounds actually that might that sounds like i'd give
that a try but yeah a great weekend overall so you uh you went right down there con was already
going right right you got there right as it started right you turn around and came back and you got
to go straight to work exactly well i came back last night because i really didn't want to have
to drive then go to sleep then get back up and yeah actually after i got back i slept for 14 hours so
now was this would you say this was crowded or this was this was your you you have not been to
another big con like this before right i was actually impressed they actually had more of a
turnout than they thought they were going to have um do we have any numbers or they were expecting
three to four hundred which was cool and all but they actually extended to like two different
more rooms so apparently they had a lot more than they thought so much so that we didn't have
wireless access at all it's in our room it sucked um they were only expecting to have the first floor
through i think seventh eighth and ninth and since we got stuck on the fourth we were right in the
middle of any access point so that's the only thing that did suck um oh i didn't tell you about
this but it was quite funny um we were warned when we got there that any if anybody checked their
emails or anything with unencrypted protocols for instance pop three but they were going to post
any usernames and passwords that they found on a big board yeah i think that's standard fair for
most cons from what i've seen first 20 minutes i'm there i'm thinking all right i'm not going to
check anything fire up my laptop completely forget about running wm pop three which is a pop three
checker for a window manager doc app so i had to spend the next 30 minutes logging into every
account that i had changing my passwords oh jeez i didn't mind i guess i get a longer password out
of the deal it went from i think 17 characters to 19 but it's just harder to type yeah right that's
so they put you on the wall of shame actually no i got lucky um afterwards i found out that they
were locking everything but the mechanism for locking the passwords failed for some odd reason
so i got lucky and did all that for nothing but hey you know well you know it's time to change
them anyway exactly well yeah i mean i really i really want to start going to more and more of
these we've already talked about how we're almost definitely going to the next hope conference whenever
that turns out to be h2k4 h2k5 whatever hopefully it's h2k4 but mute and i were talking it's boy it's
awful late in the game yeah to get it up and established and ready for july which is supposedly when
they do it normally i guess they could make it towards the end of the year end of 2004 i don't
know why it's july is the date but or june july whenever it is um but i guess we'll see i mean
they you would think they would have announced something by now yeah i've decided if they're
not going to do an h2k4 i'm going to do defcon next year but if they do then h2k4 is my intended
place to go yeah i'm going to try to make those two big ones for sure i'm going to try to make the
next defcon and i'm going to try to make the h2k whatever whenever it is and if i can squeeze in
one or two more during that time so be it but those two i'm definitely definitely going to try
to to make it too well and just uh up uh heads up in april they're actually doing one in atlanta
called um interzone so if you can make it up for that that'd be great yeah and i've talked about
that on the show before that's um you mentioned acidus earlier um both he and virgil on the blackboard
situation i have some experience with blackboard and i um mentioned that on the show before but
also i sent some information into them uh hopefully to help out with their lawsuit um i haven't heard
anything from them lately hopefully it was helpful i don't i don't know i haven't heard much from them
um but yeah i would wouldn't mind going to that i mentioned that in the year before too and that's
in atlanta which is a little closer to me but basically i'm far away from everything yeah you are like
the tip of the country yeah i am i am on the tip i'm on the dick of the united states i am hanging
off down in the southeast i'm way down at the bottom so yeah anything is i mean i'm flying
anywhere i'm not driving and i mean if there was something in orlando ever which i'm surprised
there's not actually that would be a nice place i guess just as good as atlanta then revcon there you
go yeah hey one day you never know you never know um don't rule it out don't rule it out now see now
i got everybody's hopes all up i'm going to be getting emails about oh no they're going no no no
no no no i'm saying maybe a long way down there yes thank god that what does that sound like i'm
going to have a bunch of porn industry people show up to something like that yeah well good i i like
hearing about it i like uh i like to hear what kind of um presentations they gave now are they
going to make them available can you go to the website and download the presentations is something
you have to buy or order they sell them or they were recording them the only one that they didn't
record was um the art of the hack apparently it was so short notice this was something he'd been
working on that hadn't finished so he wasn't really ready for it to be released right so that's
the only one that they said isn't going to be available um but apparently he's going to be
re-releasing that later um once he gets it polished and everything um but yeah they did record
everything they actually put everything over closed circuit tv in the hotel so in case you didn't get
to make it you know you could watch it in your hotel room which we watched quite a few of them in
our hotel room just because it's more comfortable there yeah yeah i can imagine um did now you say
they recorded them were you were were the uh visitors allowed to bring in video cameras and stuff yeah
the visitors were allowed to uh bring anything they like um record with and in fact a couple
were so hammered they were walking around recording everything well you know that might be us if we
go that might be hack tv footage there and that's what that's what sucked um everybody who i went with
or came with me forgot to bring a camera so we have no pictures oh that stinks yeah well i'm sure
some people will put them up online if they have some and uh we'll we'll get some pictures from other
people yeah it would have been nice i wish i could have made it and could have filmed some stuff we
could have done a few things but uh what are you gonna do yeah now not only you know you mentioned that
how they they were sniffing for passwords and stuff like that um it's it's a little too short it doesn't
it's only for a couple days so it's a little too short to have like real war games per se
but i know you've also before you left you had kind of been playing around with some of the online
war games lately you want to right well i always enjoyed like um i like war gaming in the sense of
you know sticking multiple machines on a network and going at it um the ones i've been playing lately
are the more puzzle type things you get stuck in a shell you give a you're going to set your id
program you have to figure out how to exploit it to get to the next level um there are a couple out
there hackers lab dot org i think it is maybe hackers lab dot com um the other one i've been
playing on lately or started on the night before the con was uh the croatian war gaming thing and
there's actually um on the BiRnev forums is a link somewhere in the links part of the forum about it
it's a great game yeah and and that's it just makes me so makes me wish i had some more time to do
some of these things because i like to read and follow along to the posts and listen to what you
guys are doing i just don't have the time to get in there and do it myself unfortunately right so
hopefully in the future i'll be something i'd like to be getting into and um these are not necessarily
new i mean these these war games have been out for a while why haven't they oh definitely yeah so
maybe um maybe sometime soon and we either maybe we can make a new war game or i know some people
come in the forum sometime and post that they've thrown up a box you know it's not exactly a war
game to me it's like okay here's my box let's hammer away and hack at it well that's fun in and of in
and of itself but a little bit more organized thing of levels where you kind of feel like you're you
know you have good stopping points and stuff like that and goals that's kind of a little bit more fun
so i'd like to see more of those type of organized war games right and maybe who knows maybe a BinRev
one yeah and maybe maybe that's something we can we can talk about it's another project um
actually make exactly what we said make some steps some goals and accomplishments put in maybe even
put some prizes or something like that up um yeah that's very much a possibility we we have we have
the boxes to do it we have the boxes i can put a box or two online to do it um
hmm yeah we'll have to talk about that we'll have to talk about that well i guess let's jump into
some news um speak let's see segue from war games into microsoft security that's not too difficult is
it um microsoft is actually having yet another security push yes again another one and this time we're
going to believe it right yeah what are they doing removing the network core yeah they're gonna
they're gonna um uninstall windows i think is the only thing that would make it secure
um no actually what they've what they're announcing this time is uh this is supposed to be in mid
2004 so it's still what is that six eight months off somewhere somewhere around there they're supposed
to be releasing what they call microsoft software update service 2.0 that they're going to use that's
going to support other platforms now no not that kind of other platforms other platforms as in
microsoft exchange microsoft sql server microsoft office that kind of thing no you know they're not
going to touch anything non-microsoft microsoft linux update yeah that would be oh good thing to see
man hey i wouldn't put anything past them linux for windows i swear they did os2 warp for windows
always two for windows one time remember that oh yeah what a monster that was anyway and uh they're
also announcing microsoft windows xp service pack 2 that's going to be coming up in september of 2004
supposedly and you know i i this was from one of my trade magazines and you and i laughed about this
earlier actually you caught it i didn't even catch it until i reread the article they their quote from
this article was that it was going to reduce buffer underruns and other vulnerabilities i don't think
they meant buffer underruns did they i hope not i think they meant buffer overflows um i guess they
could hey if they want to enhance cd burning hey i'll take it sure whatever um but yeah supposedly
and service pack 2 i guess this is their next go around at pushing security so it i guess i'll be
open-minded and say we'll see but yeah we'll see all right we'll we'll see how many boxes get
compromised the same as they have been all this other times i don't think it's going to change i've
been arguing the fact that they should do more like and i'm not a big red hat fan i know some people
are out there and it's not nothing wrong with red hat it's just not my thing but red hat at least
gives you options of okay what are you going to be doing with this box you know if they gave
questions like that because how many home users need decom and need rpc right now hopefully they'll
lose something right but maybe like go out of business i think that would be the smartest yeah
well you know and unfortunately the real the real realism of the thing the realistic fact is how many
home users would use linux or use red hat so until we break that barrier you know talking the
details of what they would need and stuff beyond that are kind of we got to get them to use it
first you know right well that's what i mean in the microsoft world if they even on the installation
if they ask you are you going to be trying to use iis on your box are you going to be serving up this
stuff you know disabling some things rather than microsoft's well let's make everything easy for
the user let's enable everything for them yeah and and i did a review of um windows server 2003
back on um rfa i don't remember what episode quite a while back on the beta of that um and they do
that somewhat now it's a server os so it's not for home users first of all but that is one thing that
they did they came up and on the install gave you a list and said okay what do you want this server to
do and give you the minimum requirements okay you want to do an iis server we'll only set up iis
the minimum and they don't install all the other crap and it goes along with it if you need
streaming media server if you need sql server if you need whatever you had those choices that you
could select the same way that red hat or some other distros do you could install some minimums for
a change now again that's on the server product if they extend that into to longhorn or whatever
their next and whenever their next uh home user os comes out you know that'd be great but
they'll cater to the lowest common denominator like they always do this is true anyway what are we going
to do about that nothing they're microsoft you know they're going to do it and the longer they do
it the better it is for linux users and for the linux community and it'll hopefully catch on so
hey they can keep shooting themselves in the foot eventually they're going to run out of toes
um another topic and this is
something that i usually will get me into a rant but it i'm going to approach it analytically this time
um and that is telemarketing um as regular listeners know and just any anybody who's following the
news um particularly hackers digital rights they would know that we have the do not call list which
was instituted recently although it's being fought um there are like every other law that we create in
this country and i'm not going to go into a rant but i'm going to say they're done half-assed they
don't think them all the way through and you end up with loopholes and telemarketers are finding and
exploiting these loopholes so i thought I'd share some of these and um jump in if you if you want
to add to any of these i basically have a list and this is i pretty much made this list up myself of
stuff that i've seen and read about so um the first thing is that and this i actually did read an article
that they are going to start as compensator not compensation as a replacement i guess
for missing out on phone calls they're actually going to start reverting back and sending
actual junk mail old-fashioned snail mail so don't be surprised if you start getting a lot more junk
mail and i gotta admit i kind of i mean i've always got junk mail in my regular snail mail but it does seem
to be starting to pick up lately maybe it's just my imagination but not only that what i predict is
going to happen is that not only are they going to start sending out more junk mail but it's going to
be mail that teases you or entices you or offers you something for you to call them for you to call
an 800 number like a lot more of the what are the publishers clearinghouse type things where you call an
800 number or you call and we'll give you this free sample or we'll give you whatever and try to trigger
people to call in instead of since you since they can't call the consumers try to fool the consumers
into calling them right enticing inbound telemarketing exactly exactly and i don't know do you think people
are going to fall for that or do you think you know i know a lot of people you get an offer for something
free they will jump all over it and um i guess i do that too to a certain extent but boy i don't know
what they could offer or how they're going to actually get people to start calling them that's
going to be i'm not sure how that's going to work out plus the cost of of sending that stuff out and
then the cost of calling in the 800 numbers and stuff i don't know if it's worthwhile for them
financially but supposedly that is uh i saw that on a local newspaper actually i think saw that that
said um that the junk mail was going to start the snail mail was going to start to increase because of that
so um there's also if you read in to the code there is a loophole in there for charities an
exception i should say not a loophole an exception for charities and political groups
these are the ones that i hate hearing from more than anything no i don't want to buy policeman ball
tickets i don't want to buy your your you know this this crap and i don't want to hear from
any political figure i don't care okay you're the president you want me to vote for you again don't call
me let me make that decision oh you're running for president to try to overthrow the president
i don't want to hear from you either if you're the mayor you're the i don't want to hear from anybody
don't solicit votes over the phone the same way you don't solicit sales over the phone it's just so
tacky and if anything it makes me think less of you and actually makes me not want to vote for you
when i get that am i all am i is that just a me thing or oh god no that's one of my i actually uh
made the mistake of being drawn into a telemarketing job here back in high school
yeah i thought i was like the lowliest of the low i mean i thought i was gutter scum for the
whole three days that i decided to do it yeah i i we've all i think a lot of us anyway have been
through that in in college high school i think i lasted two or three weeks at mine but that's kind
of because i was having fun they ended up uh not firing but threatening to get rid of me because i
was talking back to the customers and having fun with them and stuff like that and actually not
doing the job so they were going to let me go anyway when i left but yeah it was um it was just
made you realize that you'd hit rock bottom this is very true and i have a quick question to pose to
the listeners out there um and you can email your answers to me directly at voodoo at binrev um
how many of you have had experience in other countries who've lived there i would like to know
how prominent this type of thing is outside of the us that's a good question and i have no idea the
answer i mean do you think they get as much or more i i can't i can't imagine that they do
i could imagine more i don't think hell has more spam and telemarketers than we do probably
yeah that's that's a good question yeah if anybody you know we do have a very diverse audience we have
listeners from other countries so yes by all means take them up on that in email and uh we'll we'll
follow back up on a future episode and and see what the results of that are that's a good question I'd i
would be interested to hear the answers to that um there is another loophole now this is the one that
really these these two next ones are combined and these are the ones that really get me mad there's a
loophole that allows companies to call quote unquote existing customers now the definition of what is an
existing customer is very vague i mean if i ordered something from a company five years ago
ten years ago and it was just a one-time order you know does that now give them the right to forever
bug the hell out of me and what if it wasn't what if i didn't even order what if it was a call for
information yet they stuck me on their database and i am now a customer because i called for you know
the the definition is very vague but the worst part of this the this isn't this is more than a loophole
this is just a complete oversight in a stupid one at that the loophole is that they can call customers
of companies that they are partnered with oh no so microsoft is partnered with tons of people
and actually country companies have partnerships all the time all over the place you know it's a it's a
business practice to form partnerships with other companies and they don't have to exist right then and
there they can claim that they've had a partnership they can create a partnership after the fact oh
yeah we're going to create a partnership with you um cisco because we want your database information so
we can call these people because they're existing customers of cisco that now makes them existing
customers of r because of our quote partnership so that's a that's a huge huge loophole all they've got
to do is claim some fake partnership with another company and bam they have all that database and
they're allowed to call because you're an existing customer of that that partnered company the scary
part is what if they decided to uh form like a telemarketers union type thing um you know getting
large companies just agree to be partnered with this organization and then okay well that did no good
at all yeah well let's let's not give them any ideas thanks there voodoo how i appreciate that
they're listening and now they're going to form this conglomerate of all the companies
telemarketers inc no i'm sure they've already thought about that and i'm sure there's already
it's already underway i have no doubt i have no one thing for me in telemarketers i always feel bad
because uh if any of you ever heard me talk about my telemarketing stories telemarketer stories i can't
stand being called by anyone i don't know so i get pretty violent but i always feel bad because i know
that one person the other line is just doing their job oh absolutely it's not it's not the individuals
because like you said i've done it i i had that job for a couple weeks and you did for a couple days
you know it's you got to pay the bills it's not the individuals on the phone it's the companies
that push that you know it's sad what have we become it's it's yeah it's shameful i very much
regret that three weeks of my life oh man and that's why to this day i don't usually get violent or angry
on the phone but i do like to play with them when i get telemarketing calls i like to joke around with
them i like to have fun with them tell them stories see online keep them on the line and
and let's see i don't want to ruin i i have an upcoming episode an upcoming special my telephonic
craptacular that i joked about with bland one time um that i've got pretty much put together and i'm not
sure if i'm going to save it for like the 25th episode or what i'm going to do with it but i've got
it all pretty much done um where i do exactly what i just described but that's neither here nor there
um another i want to cover a few more of these and we're running kind of short on time um another loop
hole and this one is you know this is tying in something that we hate with something that we hate
even more tying in these telemarketing calls with pop-ups on the internet and there there is a
phenomenon or a thing that's going on now where these companies are partnering with online companies
that will initiate pop-up chat windows with customers after you order something online
god well and okay now it gets worse it gets worse you get a pop-up window this you know from from some
third party saying oh we noticed you just bought a uh uh cisco router do you need to buy network
cables you know and they'll you know they'll try to sell you because they're quote partnered they
can use that thing well it gets worse obviously what are people like us going to do when you get
that what's you know oh you know what fuck you what's the first thing you're going to do damn it
i used the f word what's the first thing you're going to do when that pop-up comes in front of you
try to close it exactly i'm not going to answer it screw you forget about it i'll buy my own cables
well if you don't respond the company that is the third party company that was trying to sell you
those cables not the original company they are allowed to call you oh lord with the information
from the company that you ordered from initially they're allowed to get that number and give you a
quote courtesy call there is a loophole that allows that they can give you a courtesy call on behalf of the
original sales company and the way they do it is the loophole that allows them to do that
is that they are providing customer service it's a follow-up call giving you customer service to
make sure you're satisfied with your purchase oh and would you like to buy some cables well the one
thing that i really wonder about the whole telemarketing thing is i worked for a company for
a while and this was this was at&t um and it was inbound but it wasn't really telemarketing it was you
call in if you want to buy something from us type thing um but and the company i worked for had
hundreds of different clients who we would do things like this for well about three months ago i got seven
calls from telemarketers on my cell phone in the same day only one time it happened um yet each time
they were claiming to be a different company and what i'm wondering is if the companies that they have
clients for if they can if they have separate do not call this per each client or separate a single do not
call list and this is before the national do do not call this right talking about but i'm wondering
if they have separate ones for each client because i swear to god there's no other way my number got
spread that much in one day every telemarketer in the world yeah it's who knows there's no regulation
there's no way of keeping up and knowing what they did that's you know that's the problem um and there
and you know this is it's actually kind of segues into the next the next trick here where um anytime
you call in like you just said an incoming call to a company will and this is not necessarily new
but now it's going to start coming more and more frequently more and more often you and where i first
noticed it was with cell phone company i call in the cell phone company and ask for whatever a question
or anything like that you know it's one thing to say is there anything else i can help you with
that's fine that's just being polite i say no thank you i hang up it's another thing all together
can i interest you in purchasing a camera add-on can i be interested in purchasing a a carry case or
something like that that's kind of crossing a different line well that's going to start happening
a lot more now too when you call into a company for whatever reason you call into a company you're going
to get a sales pitch when you call them because you're initiating the call for whatever reason
before they hang up with you or while they're talking to you they're going to get a sales pitch
you call in for tech support you got a tech support question you're going to get a sales pitch you call
in with a billing dispute you want to straighten out your finances your credit card number your address
you're going to get a sales pitch you're going to complain and call complain and tell how many
sales pitches you're getting from how much telemarketing you're going to get a sales pitch
that's what they're going to start doing now when you call them even if it's not about sales even if
you're not replying to an 800 number for a free item like i mentioned earlier you call them you're going
to get a sales pitch and that's something that i think you're going to start seeing and hearing a lot
more so that's the kind of thing that will get me mad did i call to ask if i could buy an accessory
for my phone no i called because you guys overcharged me no i call because i want to know why my phone
doesn't get a reception no i called because i want to return something you know i don't want to buy
anything i want you to give me my customer service and then let me go
and finally another prediction and this one may be i don't think this was going to happen as bad as
some of the others those others i think are sure things sure things but i think we're going to finally
have and the young listeners may not remember this but we're going to have a return of door to door
salesman i really i really see that happening they can't call you but guess what there's not a do not
walk to my door and annoy me list they're called large dogs yeah exactly exactly luckily you know i can
put up a sign that says no salesman like like that's going to stop them a sign but um electrify
your doorbell that works every time yeah right you might get a few uh innocent casualties in there
but you know what it might be worth it exactly might be worth it yeah so you might get door-to-door
salesman again i i guess it's expensive because you're paying a human being to walk and travel so it
probably would only be for very high ticket items it would be very targeted program uh um
marketing i would assume but yeah you're going to have a bunch of asshats walking door-to-door
trying to sell crap would you like to see the new vacuum cleaner of the year yeah and that and
that's that's the cliched one that's the most famous one was the old uh what brand was it was it
not hoover what was it electrolux or i don't remember that was even before my time that's how old that
was even before my time the door-to-door uh um vacuum salesman so you might be seeing that again
soon hopefully have you seen the actual like old time video of it though where they come in and pour
shit on your carpet yeah and then vacuum it up yeah yeah i've seen some of that oh man they ain't
coming in and pouring nothing on my carpet i'll kick somebody's ass they come in and pour something
on my carpet's already dirty enough oh great this vacuum cleaner works great it's a beating stick yeah
right yeah come on in you don't have to pour anything on my carpet you can clean up what
already is there though oh no i don't want to buy your stuff but why don't you finish vacuuming while
you're in here asshat although for all the great social engineers out there you might get a good
house cleaning out of it exactly i don't know if it's clean enough yet try this spot yeah that carpet
back there is shaggier than this carpet i want to see if it's going to work there you know see if you
can get a free house cleaning um and i actually also i did because i was putting this together i
went and looked up some statistics and i know you're looking at these on the show notes but to me
i mean is this just mind numbing do you see the numbers in front of you yeah that's pretty damn scary
i that proves people actually buy things from these people and that's the problem as long as people are
buying from it and following up on it it's going to continue that's the sad thing especially in these
numbers yeah they exist for a reason they're making money so don't you ever doubt it as much
as everybody hates them somebody is buying from someone is giving in and somebody is actually
purchasing from them now more than likely it's the targeted stuff i'm sure their success rate is much
higher than the just blind cold calls but still last year all right i'm going to i'm going to enunciate
clearly because when you get to these alien words you got to make sure you put the right emphasis on
the right syllable uh last year telemarketers made upwards of 70 million calls a day
a day and they sold more than 100 billion with a b 100 billion worth of goods and services to consumers
plus 114 billion to businesses this is according to the direct marketing association a trade group
total of 214 billion dollars last year
70 million calls per day no wonder why everybody hates telemarketers 70 million per day
three hundred multiply that out and then compare to how many people there are in the united states
and figure out how many estimate how many calls people get but since they produced 214 billion dollars
it's not going to stop not ever it is not going to stop it is absolutely not going to stop now the number
the sold the amount sold to businesses is only slightly higher well not that 14 billion is something to
sneeze at but 100 billion to consumers and 114 billion to businesses consumers are spending money on
these telemarketers stop replying stop responding to them stop buying this stuff over the phone and they
will go away it's like trolls they will go away if you ignore them so stop buying them go to the store and
buy the same thing and probably cheaper oh only as seen on tv only available in this offer yeah right are you
kidding me that thing will be in the discount bin at the dollar store within six months of release
just looking your neighbor's trash i'm sure someone bought one yeah and that's the other thing is once
you get it it's crap exactly you know never works right
anyway all these are loopholes that um these companies are trying most of these are confirmed
that they are going on some of them are ideas that may happen but right now it's still new
the do not call us to still new the laws are still new it's possible that they may not hold up
i mean let's hold out some faith do i think it'll happen no but let's hold out some faith it's still a
new thing it's still a new law maybe that they maybe they won't be able to get these loopholes
maybe they'll tighten them up or maybe they'll be punished for using them after the fact i don't
know we'll see but excuse me for coughing on the microphone there the other thing is you know how
slow our government works in our court system by the time any punishment or anything happens you know
it may be too late it may be over and done with you know part of that 214 billion dollars is going to
somebody in the government's pocket well yeah you know they're going to have lobbyists and special
interest groups and that's the that's what corrupts our government more than anything but we're not
going to go into a whole political rant but yes absolutely true statement and as long as we're on
this i'll touch one quick topic before we wrap up here because this is another another shady thing
that's going on um and it's kind of along the same lines of a poor way to conduct business if you ask me
so it's a natural segue into these credit card companies these credit card companies are doing
some similar shady business for lack of a better term um now maybe some of the listeners can relate to
this sometimes creditors simply lose people it's just a fact you take out a student loan you may move
right after you graduate move two or three times as a matter of fact and they simply may lose you
their system you know companies these especially these bigger companies credit card companies they
can't keep up and by the time they've got a change of address form from one place you may have moved
on two or three times since then so they may just lose your track of you along the way and that's what
they call basically lost income or shrinkage or um what do they call it uncollectible because they
simply lose you or they may lose you because they screw up in their database they may just mark you as
paid or mark you as um you know some do not collect status or whatever and then years down the road this
happened to a friend of mine on this student loan um he was told that he was done he'd made all the payments that he
is supposed to have made and then six or seven years after the fact they come to him saying he
still owes thousands of dollars because he never paid off the end the last payment or two or something
like that and all the interest was building up over that time and they tried to come in and make him
pay all this kind of stuff years later so they lose people it's just a fact there's any number of reasons
that they could be doing it well what's going on now is that these credit card companies
are somewhat giving up or these excuse me not credit card companies let me credit companies
these credit lenders whether it's student loan whether it's government whether it's car whether
it's whatever anybody that's lended money or loaned money they finally get to the point where they've
lost you they give up and what they're doing is selling that information to credit card companies
and the credit card companies who do have a high response rate with their junk mail oh here's our
free credit card zero percent interest you know that's useful to people people will follow up and sign
up for that credit card well that credit card company has purchased the debt from these other
companies and the act of you getting that credit card you don't realize in the fine print that what you
are doing is accepting this old debt and when you get a credit card it's got all your old debts in it
and you're in the whole negative amount of money on this new credit card that you got because they
purchased the debt from some old company
be careful what you sign be careful what you sign up for when you get a credit card company
when it comes to money they don't let go that easily
have you ever heard of any stories like that have you ever heard or had that happen i was personally
raped by a credit card company online once never signed up for the card it was one of those we'll find
you a credit please because i was i was 18 and didn't have any credit so i was trying to find
someone who would give me credit and you're their target audience they come after you know i see it at
at universities all the time they will set up tables on uh during open uh during registration and stuff
like that and it's like okay here's your register here's your classes would you like a credit card
exactly well this company um was posted and i filled out the application form well according to them they said that in me filling out the application form which
this means read everything on the page exactly if it's hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of pages long
read it or don't sign it um yeah they said that because i did that that was going ahead and okaying them
activating the card which they didn't say anywhere on the page that there was a 300 activation fee
i get this card in the mail and a bill along with it saying okay you you have a 300 balance
like i haven't spent anything i haven't signed the card i haven't done anything exactly
and uh i ended up having to pay it because there was nothing i could do yeah and you know and it's
terrible because it's it's so much easier said than done i am the first i will freely admit i try my best
to read everything i sign but even i will get into a circumstance where it's like yeah yeah whatever i'm
in a hurry just give me the damn thing you know i try my best to read everything we give the advice and
tell people read everything you sign but there's some circumstances where you just can't realistically
do it there's so it's so long and there's so much stuff to sign it's just unrealistic and it's a damn
shame that our country our country being the united states of america is so judicial it's so over
what am i trying to say there's too many damn lawyers that's what i'm trying to say
when you have to sign you know read five pages just to sign a simple form it's ridiculous it's
just ridiculous and we shouldn't live in that kind of an environment but hey that's the reality that's
what you got to do so we'll say it as much as you can read as often as you can everything that you sign
and that's really about it that's it that's a full show i think uh i really liked hearing the
stuff about freak nick did you um i'll give you the first crack at shouts tonight did you want to
shout out to anybody there or anybody in general for that matter uh yeah i generally won't do this
because i don't know how many from the fc 2600 we have listening um but shouts to the guys who put
up who did the con great job um the nashville linux users group also helped with that um shouts to
a lot for coming along for the chaos and shouts to the people on the boards and shouts to uh jack
daniels jim beam yeah guinness guinness was there oh okay guinness there you go and um i'll give
shots to decoder i've been chatting with him giving him a hard time innocent messages lately i'll give a
shout out to him and i think that's all for me uh i'll shout out no i'll shout out uh sito i'll shout
out my friend womp uh we're working on hack tv um i'll give a shout out to them and one more
as well uh not theory just for that uh nice uh database thing he was doing oh he's always doing
something just i i joked with him the other day you know we were i've been chatting with him quite a
bit too at work we've been playing the compare who has the worst code at their job game where we cut
and paste code to each other and um you know he's just so it's so interesting that he'll just oh what
are you going to do this weekend well i'm going to sleep i'm going to sit on my dead ass and watch
football you know and then what are you going to do this weekend in theory oh well i'm going to uh
do an analytical study of the theory of relativity and prove that gravity doesn't exist and reverse
the rotation of the earth and oh yeah i might throw in some code to uh rewrite an entire operating
system from scratch i mean the guy's just incredible how much he'll sit down and code man he's
amazing i will second those shouts i second that very big big time um again i mentioned earlier the
show i'm going to repeat it now letters at binrev.com you send it somewhere else i might not see i'll
eventually see it but i might not see it in a timely fashion so if you have feedback on the show itself
or on the magazine even letters at binrev.com and i guess that is about it um unless you had anything
else that's it for me that's it well we're going to close with a different style of music it's difficult
to find it's not difficult of it it's difficult to find specific genres of music when you're looking
for it there's plenty of great music out there on the internet but when i go looking for a particular
type sometimes it's difficult well i found something good tonight this is um a little different than what
we usually do and kind of at the request of decoder somewhat not this particular song but a change of
the music style um this one is a called rufio it's a song called science fiction and we're going to
close with that and actually i'm going to close with a phone call tonight i'm going to edit it in
afterwards i called we mentioned on the show within theory last week uh 1-800 hotmail and if you don't
know what i'm talking about go back and listen to last week's show and i gave them a call and i'm
going to play that as we leave right now and then jumping to that closing music so um that's it for me
so i tell you what you know let's switch things up why don't you start with the closing this time
all right um see you next week guys same hack time same hack channel okay so on last episode we
mentioned 1-800 hotmail thinking of course that would be hotmail.com spelled very differently from
hot mail m-a-l-e so let's give a call to 1-800 hotmail m-a-i-l and see what they have to say
thank you for choosing pilgrim telephone who from services follow this message feeling horny try
these red hot lines from national live hot fun at just 69 cents per minute at 1-800-SEX-5555 that's 1-800-SEX-5555
5-800-SEX-5555 or try 1-900-226-GIRL for local dirty girl fun at only 199 per minute that's 1-900-226-GIRL
900 block dial 1-767-446-9000 that's 1-767-446-9000 only international long distance rates apply
and while you're on the internet check out singles.com and girls.com that's singles.com and
girls.com well isn't that interesting if you're under 18 you must hang up now welcome to intimate
connections where you'll hear sexy introductions from callers on our system right now talk only to
the girls who turn you on yeah i think i'm going to skip out on the fun thanks intimate connections
where you'll hear sexy introductions from callers on our system right now talk only to the girls who
turn you on send private uncensored messages or talk live one-on-one to join the fun press one now
all right well it obviously loops so i'm gonna drop them offline thank you very much for the offer but
yeah i i think i'm just gonna yeah i'm just gonna take a pass on that one but did anybody else notice
how short the pause was for that age 18 check i didn't even have time to hang up if i wanted to
but anyway on to the music
these are the whispers that you keep inside your mind
i do that for sure they are turning at your spouse
and i can't believe it for me
but i will think they're happy
when you call me
to lead to the world
your planet is
choking on your pride
and show you yourself
feeling
moving
feeling
very
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.
Oh, oh, oh.
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.
A new life
Of all she doesn't, all she doesn't know
Don't believe in science, it's time
That I feel, it's just time
To avoid the ordinary
It's time to take this one full of your life
malalties
much
even weekly
live
more
fun
life
lives