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you are the things of binary revolution radio revolution will be digitized
this is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers
to the hackers and the crackers i see in binary i speak source code step on my toes i'll post a
million jpegs of you in a fag pose in your digital stance getting firewalled ho because i'm riding
the net in my six foe i was a dick with my 56 now with my cable i'm able to get that stable on the
out my name is ace and i'm a leo on the digital highway my name is neo and i'm a hero in a flash
i'll sue you on burning dream packs you need some iso let me through my hard drive rifle
our exchange you could never stifle in a digital hug you just caught the love bug i bootlegged your cd
i caused the fight between un and jc your cg it's all gonna be free whether we take it by force or
we take it nicely you feel that rattle in your bones when i tell you we just hacked out jones
and nasdaq leave you flat on your back because i am he who loves to hack and crack because i am he
who loves to hack and crack this is dedicated to the hackers and the critics
ladies and gentlemen welcome to binary revolution radio i am stank dog here once again this week
can't get rid of me that easily and i am joined by a co-host this week who you may recognize by voice
certainly will recognize by name but actually a first time co-host hopefully not the last time
decoder welcome to the show what's up now we have to start off the show unfortunately with some bad
news i got an email i got a couple emails actually and i went over to defcon.org to confirm and look
at some of this and it would appear that the hacking community has lost one of its members
and forgive me if i mispronounce this um but it's gent or gent uh g-h-e-n-t apparently passed away
recently so you know i didn't know him personally and i don't know if any of the listeners have but
you know anytime something bad happens like that it's it's you know we don't wish anything like that
on anybody so um i want to pass that news along um and you can go to defcon.org and check out there's
some tributes there and find out more information and and contact information if you want to make a
donation or or something like that so um unfortunately we have to start off with with bad news like that
um and other than that really i'm going to jump into what i've been doing here this past week speaking
of emails um beginning of the month we closed up the submissions for bin rev 1.3 so if you wanted
to get submissions in um that was the time actually i am a tiny bit behind if you want to slip something
at the last minute you might get it through i can't guarantee that but i am in the process right
now of going through and editing articles and um selecting the articles that we're going to use and
i've already contacted logan about um starting on the layout very soon so i will technically we're
pretty much clean but if you were to send something in by say this weekend um your 2600 meeting weekend
if you've got something you want to send in by that weekend i will possibly be able to consider
1.3 if not it'll definitely be considered for 1.4 or actually 2.1 i guess we're beginning next year
so i guess we'll go into 2.1 so anyway um if you want to send something in it'll we might be able
to get an issue this issue but possibly more likely would be for next issue um and actually i should
also mention um hack and slash has been writing the show notes and i wanted to thank him again on the air
um he's been writing the notes every week like the day that i put the show up i get the show notes
immediately in email so i want to give a big thanks to him again um and i guess he can put
that in the show notes that i thanked him that'll be he'll put that in there i'm sure and um that's
really all i have to start off with um we have a lot of stories we want to talk about today
and we had a big announcement today we are actually recording just before we stream right now and we
just found out well maybe decoder why don't you tell them what we just found out h2k4 has been
confirmed my ninth to the 11th hotel ponselvania same as last time so my job tomorrow is to ask
off from work i'm going to plan my vacation ahead of time and i know yeah several people that uh
several people on the forums have talked about meeting up and getting together i know a lot of
us the dvp we're going to try to hook up um so i've never been to new york now if i come up to new
york you know i want to go up and do the touristy things as well i want to go to the world
trade center i want to go to central park i want to go do all that kind of silly stuff man you're
going to hook me up with that yeah of course you're going to take me down to the best uh oh how
about scores you're going to take me to scores oh that's where you want to go right i said the
tourist attractions i meant it that's the main tourist attraction exactly exactly wall street all
that silly kind of stuff i want to do that so i might actually take a week off or something
and go up there and do some of that kind of silly stuff and then go to the con
now did you i think you told me you did not go to h2k2 is that correct no i actually was not in
new york at that time so make it we really don't know well at least other than hearsay stories from
other people what to expect i've never been before so i don't know what to expect drinking lots of
drinking that's what i'm gonna be doing well you know that's you don't have to wait for h2k4 to do
that extra drinking yeah the um i don't they haven't they haven't announced the official
title of it yet i mean we're calling it h2k4 because they haven't come up with a name yet they
just announced that they're even doing it here you know six months is it before it starts so
technically they're only going to get to advertise in one issue of 2600 magazine for this thing so
it's going to be all word of mouth word of mouth news on the website exactly so it's going to be
interesting to see how this works out um i wonder if they how much uh how many um presentations and
stuff they have lined up i've heard about one or two but yeah i think particular is you know
not really sure it's awful short notice i hope they get enough stuff going on i still i'm still
curious as to see i'm planning on also hopefully going to defcon next year and once i've been to
both of them i'll kind of maybe get a better understanding of the differences between because
i've heard a lot of positive and negative things about both of them and i don't know if i don't
know which one i would prefer or which one is you know how different they are have you you haven't
been to defcon either no i haven't been to defcon but you know i guess vegas new york depending on
where you want to be i guess that's true but i i guess i don't know i don't i'm sure someone will
email me and correct me for saying this but i get the impression that defcon is more of the
drinking partying kind of uh con i think they have a lot more fun per se whereas h2k4 is a little
bit more um more serious yeah a little bit more on presentations a little bit more about knowledge
and i would suspect i don't think this is a faux pas for me to say this i would suspect that there's
a lot of younger people there at h2k4 yeah i would imagine a lot of younger people or or
people who aren't old enough to legally drink i would think there'd be a lot more people yeah i
would think there'd be a lot more people like that at the twin not that there's anything wrong
with it but you know i'd expect that might be there so therefore less of a emphasis on drinking
so and partying well i guess you party without drinking let's not tie those two together
we don't want to open that bag i would say you know everything's an excuse to drink
well for for legally uh legal adults we'll must be over 21 exactly you sound like a beer commercial
now oh man well that is going to be interesting i can't wait for that and um plus a lot of you guys
are up in that area so i can't wait to meet some of you guys and go around and and check out new york
i really i know it sounds kind of corny to say that but i've never been on a subway in my life
to go do some ue in the subway yeah exactly i want to go down there and and see what kind of
cool stuff i can find man i got to go got to go tag down in the subways bring your spray paint
exactly what's what if i if i get caught with that will i be able to make it out of jail and home to
be able to go home then by uh end of the week yeah that's what i figured no big deal
well there we go i i foresee ddp was here in the future somewhere on the walls uh oh wait a minute
damn it did i just uh i probably just um incriminated exactly they see that they're
gonna come straight to you i'm just saying potentially possibly if that were to happen
it would not be for me it absolutely could not happen for me just a fan of the show right yeah
exactly i can't control these crazy fans i don't you know what if they go out there and do this kind
of stuff it's discourage it but as far as they're going to do what they want to do anyway exactly
absolutely so that still doesn't cover me legally i've already screwed up but that's all right we're
going to go with it um actually we're going to go into are you want to jump into some news topics
here did you want to talk about um anything else with h2k4 oh not really the only uh it was just that
news item on the site no name for it yet just released today you know yeah i know some people
had told me that it was going to be coming like i think epiphany had mentioned it that he heard
rumors and and in theory and some of the other people have told me that they had heard rumblings
of it at their at the new york 2600 meeting and friends of friends have said oh it's going to
happen we just don't have a name yet maybe that's what took maybe that's why they took so long they
didn't give it a name yet and they were trying to come up with a clever name yeah maybe a couple of
months back people were just saying it's a rumor you know it's not going to happen how h2k2 was
announced like a year and a half advance right right exactly and then slowly just started getting
more and more people saying look you know i've been hearing on the inside it's going to happen
well according to 2600.com it is official so if they bump it back or postpone it or something that's
really i'd be pissed what do you got because i'm serious i i have to i'm going to go and ask off of
work this far in advance to make sure that there's no no problems and no second guessing that i asked
off of work so i hope they don't change anything i hope this is true on short notice hey i guess
we'll find out your time will tell exactly um let's talk about this is probably the funniest thing
at least to me and i maybe maybe it's just a me thing i laugh at stupid shit sometimes damn it i did
it i said a bad word i said i wasn't going to and i did it anyway well there's going to be a lot
coming up on the next topic after this one but this topic is um some news from amazon.com
one of our personal favorite sites they have added a new feature here in the past week or so where
and actually this is i should i should rephrase they changed this feature they added probably six
months or more ago the ability to look inside at a couple sample pages of books so you could kind of
get a feel to see how it was written see if you it had what you wanted in it it would let you look
at like the table of contents and maybe a first few pages or something some samples to see if it's the
one you want um well they got rid of that and they kind of changed it now where you can view pages from
pretty much any book and the way you did it before was you would search you would find the book that
you wanted and then there was a like a little icon or something that said see inside and you'd click
on that and it would load pdfs and you could like i said look at a page or two sample well it now they
actually integrated the contents of all of the books into the search engine so you can put in a string
and search for that string and it will not only search titles authors keywords stuff like that but
they will actually search the strings in the books and your search results will be weighed weighted by
those as well as the other things i just mentioned keywords titles stuff like that so the difference is
that now you have to give them well i'm jumping ahead of myself basically i'm curious as to how they're able
to do this because they are putting up and it's somewhat like the music industry you have
several several different record labels with people signing under all the different labels and each
label has their own rules and they want their money and they're not going to give permission what one
label does the other one may not it's the same thing with with publishing companies and books and
magazines they're published by different publishing companies and i i find it a major coup if they've pulled
off the ability and gotten permission from all the authors of all these different books to allow
you to go in there and read a few pages of their book and given giving them authorization to view
copywritten material ironic in a way that they give it to amazon but they won't to public consumers but
i'm going to back off of that topic well amazon sells the books for them well true but if i mention a book
on the radio right now you don't think that that might potentially be advertising for them that
someone could go buy that book if i say hey go buy defensive thinking kevin mitnick you know you don't
think that's a good endorsement to go buy a book well of course it's a good endorsement you're going to
read half the book though on the air well no but i might read some sample pages or a few lines or at
least discuss details of what it's about which is kind of the point of what amazon's doing to let you
sample it and and kind of feel it out and even so look at we in in bin rev uh magazine we print book
reviews and we print the cover we show the cover of the book and and um some description of what it's
about a review you know it's it's i have to get permission to do all that kind of stuff really yeah
so it's they have done it with everybody every publisher that's that's amazing that's that's a
major accomplishment there i have to say you got to figure amazon must be making these people a lot
of money yeah that's that's true and give them that sort of uh keep hey keep that thought in mind
for later on in the show there's that's a little forewarning there's a little hint for you
what i'm wondering is is if there's a way to exploit this like the old way that this happened was that
it would you would click on it and say see inside and it would load pdf pages embedded pdf files
and i think it's still doing that to a certain extent um but now it's it's hidden them a little
bit better it's it's putting them in the code they're dynamically assigned but i'm still wondering
it would take some time and digging as to how they're doing it but i'm wondering if it'd be
possible to write a script or something to find all of the pages in a book if you knew i guess you'd
have to know quite a few of the words of the book though or what quite a few
hmm not sure exactly how to go about doing it but i bet you it is technically possible for you
to write a script to go out there and download and save all the pages and reconstruct the entire book
yeah would it would it be easy i don't know i don't know about that without looking more into it but
an interesting concept nonetheless and if somebody were to do that i bet you amazon would lose their
publishing rights to the copyright material you wouldn't be able to search uh key phrases out of
the books anymore well you know speaking of searching key phrases out of the books that's
exactly what i did that's exactly what i did you know being the hacker that i am the inquisitive mind
when i realized that you could search key words and key phrases actual literal strings from the book
i went out and searched you know quote the raven nevermore you know i went out and searched
uh quotes from 1984 to see if they would come up but then my mind turned as it always does
and you know what it's probably better to just play these for you and you'll see what i mean
check these out in one movement she undid his trousers and brutally extracted his member
there was an answering gasp from him then he smashed her handbag to the floor spilling out its contents
i had just started getting dressed when she walked into the bedroom she was totally naked except for
magazines this was the first time i had ever seen a nude woman we laid down on the bed and she began
rubbing her hand all over my body he gathered the waist of her panties in his fist and drew her to
the bed she fell back and he pulled down her panties with both hands tossing them to her face she shook
them away sighing opening her eyes and seeing him naked hunkering beside her all right what did you
think about that decoder yeah you know i knew that's what your mind would turn to well of course my mind if
it's not on hacking it's on porn that's right even if it's on hacking it's always also on porn porn
exactly now i actually picked some very mild statements some mild recordings from there yeah i
noticed that there is some much much more obscene stuff out there and i'm not talking about the
definition of obscene of of obscene i'm talking about there's some bad language some very naughty
thoughts and visuals what i did now was simply take the text that amazon gave me and plug them into
one of those voice synthesizing tools and had them read them aloud so that's what you heard you don't
get that directly from amazon there is actually before anybody goes i'm sure listeners listening to
this live might have already shot off to amazon right now and they're playing with the same thing
but let me forewarn you that you do have to give you have to have an amazon account and have a credit
card on file they you have to have a valid credit card there's no charges or anything to it but if you
have a credit card on file i guess that's how somehow they justify allowing you to view the copywritten
material maybe because what i said earlier there were somebody could write a script that would go through
there as anonymous or just you know dos just pound away at it shouldn't say do i should just
pound away at it through brute force and pull stuff out so i guess that's one level do that on your
credit card yeah there's just one level of control probably that they've implemented once you log in if
you have the valid credit card it stays in your session you don't have to redo it every time you want
to look at a page and that's really that's the way a lot of adult sites work not that i would know i'm
only going on what decoder told me that's the way a lot of adult sites work they figure you got to be
18 to have a credit card so they make you put in a credit card number sometimes just to prove your
age limit isn't that what you were telling me before the show oh yeah of course sometimes they charge you
a dollar ah see exactly so um i don't know if that's was their intent i don't know if they were trying to
keep kids out because like i said there there is that material there that might be questionable
um or did they just want to trick people not trick people force people into adding a credit card to
their account you know the more likely you are to create once you have an account and once you have
a credit card there frankly you're that much more likely to order from them because a lot of the
work's already done the hassles you just click on one click buy and i really think that was their
intent i think that's their intent once they got your credit card and stuff on there you're that much
more tempted to click on things and buy them quickly and easily whereas if you were to go to another
site you would have to re-enter in a lot of that information and i'm thinking that might have been
their mindset more than protecting children from the i don't even think they probably thought about
prawn do you i don't think so i think it just comes down to the money yeah i don't think it ever
crossed their mind i don't think it ever i think it's pure coincidence now one thing that is not
coincidence and i used one bad word earlier i don't know if i'm going to be able to control anymore
because my good friends at verisign are back at it again now i gave them an honorary double award
was it last episode or episode before last a couple episodes ago yeah that oh they are
they're complete jerks that's my that's my good word that's my not swearing word that is they're
complete jerks it's so hard to say that too um to refresh your memory they tried to
okay they had a feature called site finder now i know a lot of this is repetitive we talked about
it before but just to bring everyone up to speed i'll give you the short version they had something
called site finder we talked about it on the earlier episode but like i said it is basically
their quote service to the community that was a service that helps in quotation marks again it helps
you find sites if you misspell a word or enter an incorrect address so this is a service that they're
providing to the internet community as whole uh well thank them yeah thank yeah we should be thanking
them right we should be thanking them well i can didn't agree i can't shut them down or put them
in an injunction to made them stop temporarily but um they're trying something else now i like like
that wasn't enough like that wasn't enough for them they're going on with something else
the biggest thing about them pulling any move is that first and foremost they're a business
they're trying to make money they're in it to make money yet i don't think anybody could argue
that verisign is not a complete monopoly now yes they've been broken up so that other registrars
can register dot com and dot net but they are the one and only global registrar they have access and
all knowledge and massive databases of every dot com and dot net on the internet so i don't know
whether it could even be debated whether or not they're a monopoly well they have co-authored
something called the web services policy and it's supposed to define the way that web service providers
can show their requirements and capabilities web service meaning um the the direction that applications
are moving is that they're going to start delivering a lot of content and a lot of programming and
information over the internet so a web service provider who's trying to contact customers might
have a hard time because of the vast expanse that is the internet well verisign is trying to be the
middleman the broker the agent it's probably the best word the agent they want to be the the to be able
to verify the claims made by the service providers they want to be the broker or the controller of
this again service they love giving us great service don't they they want to be the central
signing authority so they want to be there it's basically they're touting it as though it's a
security feature they're going to be a signing authority that says oh we hereby authorize that so
and so can do this we hereby authorize that these are the requirements of that did we not learn our
lessons with these guys and girls these i almost said it these idiots these jerks did we not learn
the lesson with them with the site finder i mean it's it's sickening this is another attempt at taking
advantage of their existing database which again i don't know i don't know how they end up being the one
and the global one with all that power and information but something has to be done well
the site finder i mentioned earlier let me throw some let me throw some statistics at you
in case you think lest you think i was over exaggerating this when i gave them that award
recently unless you think this is a minor inconvenience or annoyance let me tell you what
the bottom line on this is let me tell you the effects that this had and i'm not talking about
the effects of how it jammed up a bunch of people's um email filtering and how it suddenly
all bad addresses became valid ones because you got the site finder service help you know let me
tell you the bottom line on this and it's the bottom line of everything else they're a business and
they're trying to make money before they started site finder service they ranked verisign.com ranked
135th on the overall traffic list according to media matrix that's a web traffic analysis firm 135th
that's nothing that's nothing BinRev is 134th okay I'm lying I made that up but still 135th is
nothing especially considering that they're the global who is they're the place you go to if you
want to find out information about sites and look up registration information 135th is not is you know
fine um well they activated site finder two weeks only two weeks before they finally got an injunction
that said hey cut it out for two weeks they had the site finder up that intercepted every
mistype every misspelling and provided this wonderful service to its users because that's
what it's all about providing service and help to the users of the internet that's that's all they
want to do and for two weeks they helped us oh and conveniently they helped themselves jump from 135th
two weeks mind you not even the full month two weeks jumped from 135th to 11th 11th most visited site
on the internet for two weeks of site finder that is insane now let me remind you that there's advertising
and click throughs and they make money every time somebody hits site finder they jumped a staggering 120
points come on you've got to be kidding me 124 points in two with two weeks of traffic what if that
would have gone the full month it would have been number one i mean i don't see how they could have been
i don't i would love to see i know i wouldn't i would love to see them get a boot in their ass that's
what i'd love to see darn it i did it i knew i couldn't resist you know what their slogan is right
please enlighten me the value of trust uh well you know when i think of internet when i think of
trust i think of verisign me too i don't know how you couldn't well exactly oh no i'm sorry i
meant mistrust i meant mistrust i'm sorry that was my mistake um you know who let me tell
let me put it in perspective for people do you know what 11th on the list of most visits is you know
you know who your company is on that you're in company with disney disney.com now you know that's
a huge one you know tons of disney gets tons of hits amazon.com you mentioned earlier i told you
that would come back later in the show amazon.com is up there around 12 13 somewhere like that that's
up there with the disneys and amazons of the internet verisign.com are you kidding me site finder
come on now if they would have gone for a full month like you said they could have been number
one they would have easily been in the top five but they very well could have been number one now
could any other company have done that is there any other company that you can think of
that could have made that leap in a period of two weeks and possibly jumped up to the number one in a
period of a month is there any other company on the planet that could do that non-porn uh porn
included porn included porn included there is no porn in the top 10 really yep surprising there's no
porn in the yeah that is surprising but still i'm sure that there's several in problem probably in the
top 100 but you know i'm sure between 11 and 135 they have to wade through a lot of porn exactly i think
you're right um no other company can do it that is the absolute definition of a monopoly
who gave these guys authority i whoever they need to take the authority away that's the whole problem
if we can't trust them this is that we can't trust them with the site finder and with just shutting
up and doing their job as a registrar how can we trust them to be the central signing authority for
web providing web service providers it's ridiculous i tell you what let me i'm gonna i'm gonna put you
on the spot here it's not very much it's pretty actually you'll probably get a couple you might
get all five of these do you know what the top five most visited sites on the internet are google's
gotta be one of them all right google is one of them google is actually number five that's number five
number five is google no porn on the list oh you said that before no porn on the list yahoo yahoo is
number three three number three you're you you'll you'll slap yourself in the head when i tell you
tell me number one uh i tell you what no i'll tell you number four let's go up the list google was number
five number four ebay oh okay yeah ebay yeah exactly see when you hear them it's like oh yeah of course
course number three you said yahoo powered by google ironically so that's basically double the
hits for google but um number two oh i just love to say these words i love the way they rolled off my
tongue aol time warner yeah i do yeah you know how can they not be you know they force that page on
every aol user not to mention every aim user then you would disc in the mail every two days you know
and they probably count if you use aim and it has that little ad up at the top of aim they probably
count those as hits or something who knowing them and number one you know take another guess
again think about it again nothing to do with microsoft there you go microsoft number one site
and that makes clear sense too because all the operating systems it defaults to i don't know if
that includes msn or if it's just microsoft.com it just says the company name so i don't know if that
includes all of them i would imagine it does probably their entire exactly because every
time you have that ie it defaults to msn.com you know every windows update you go to hotmail exactly
this is the fine company that verisign found themselves in exactly exactly they could have
leapfrogged right on up there which they could have they could have been comfortably sandwiched in
between microsoft and aol what great company to be in we love you verisign oh god i hate verisign
if you want to see a cool picture uh www.fuckverisign.com
oh not we're not talking about fuck verizon.com
no no no verisign.com yeah all right we'll have to check that out i'm sure our listeners are
scampering to that right now um so i don't i don't think there's really anything more that needs
to be said i think everybody knows what a bunch of idiots these people are do not give them any more
power do not give them any more responsibility push them to the side start putting limits on what
they can do and what they have access to and hell investigate them for god's sakes they're a monopoly
monopoly they are a monopoly plain and simple so don't give them more power take it away from
them right just take it away don't give them anything else they can't handle the responsibility
that they have they just out you know they did that out of the blue yeah just one day they just said
hey i know what we can do let's screw the internet as a whole and all of its users it's the value of
trust oh god we've got to trust them providing us a service you know yeah maybe maybe i don't know
what's good for me maybe they know what's good for me better than i do that's it um i may think that
it's an annoyance to have that site up and yeah it may just pretty much screw up all of my filtering
software anything that depends on return codes see they miss this whole idea of return codes from a
programming standpoint you have to depend on return codes good or bad and when you get a return code
that the site is bad you have programs that revolve around that and suddenly oops it's not bad
anymore sorry we single-handedly screwed up every piece of software that you've ever written it oh god
they mentioned something about that in their little faq on their website you know it's like
i think that had a bigger effect than any y2k bug ever could have oh yeah most definitely i want their
and they still want to do it that's the other thing they haven't let go
they're still fighting they think that they're entitled they think they're allowed to do that
i can't stop them they were given an injunction to take it offline because of the damage that it was
done they didn't clear it with anyone or authorize it with anyone they didn't have to they're verisign
they didn't have to authorize it with anyone well they were told to take it down
they did but they still are fighting to bring it back up they're trying to go through the system and
force and say we're allowed to do this we are allowed to make money other companies do this blah
blah blah you know and i mentioned on that when we talked about this in the previous show sure
microsoft does this if you misspell something it searches microsoft.com on your behalf you might not
even know it sometimes you set up a default search engine in ie and it goes there and searches anytime
you misspell or something like that but at least you have control over that you can go in there and
change the search engine you can go in there and take it out if you really wanted to and not have
it searched by if you misspell something but you don't have that kind of control when verisign takes
it upon themselves to change the infrastructure the fucking internet oh i i couldn't help i couldn't do
it it's not just your browser with whatever browser you're using or anything else
what you're doing you're gonna see verisign yeah yeah it's you know all i can if verisign really
thinks they can do this and get away with it i mean they're dumber they're dumber than a sack of hammers
i i don't know what else anyway let's move on to something that's not going to make me cuss this
actually kind of makes me laugh um this has been talked about in the forums and it's not necessarily
new news but valve has sprung a leak valve of course are the people that make half-life the
the video game i guess computer game is the proper terminology to call it video game or
is that only referred to like the arcade stand-up things i'm old school i call it a video game yeah
i do too i'm wondering if i'm going to get you know i'm going to ask c4 and the guys over at gamer
am i allowed to say video game and referring to a pc game or do i have to differentiate these days i
don't know what's the proper etiquette there but anyway the game half-life um someone hacked
into the server apparently and stole some of the source code and it's been circulating on
the web for i don't know what has it been a month now maybe longer a little bit over a month over a
month and i haven't seen any binaries anywhere yet have you no i don't know i haven't seen anybody
compile it or get it working or anything like that so frankly i don't know what the i mean i guess i
know what the big deal is i'm not condoning what happened or anything like that you know breaking
into the server and stealing the source code but i haven't really seen any damage per se
and i think they overblown like every other company that gets hacked into they probably blew
it out of proportion what happened they might have gotten a couple little modules obviously not enough
to compile the whole game because it's not out there yet so we don't know what they got i've seen
some of the code floating around i don't know the details of of how much it covers and what it does
but um i don't think it's such a big deal now i get a magazine called game developer magazine yet
another one that i subscribe to one of the many and the editorial this issue i think it's quarterly
the editorial this issue was about valve and about people stealing the source code and
you know i like i said i don't guess there's really much debate on that if someone broke into
their server now i would debate that if you had it that insecure to begin with you kind of were asking
for it i'm not condoning it but i'm saying i understand it you kind of did something stupid
and now you're paying the price for it but the editor of this magazine wrote this whiny whiny whiny
editorial about anybody who looks at that code is stealing now anyone who just looks at it anybody
who looks at it now if you're a third fourth party removed somebody comes in and posts it in the forums
if you find it on another ftp site somewhere and look at it that you are in turn stealing
now i don't know i this this could be an interesting debate i don't know
really how to address that topic is that stealing i wouldn't say that that's stealing
just looking at it yeah if the person who took it is stealing well and that's that like i said i agree
with that the original person who took that is probably stealing again i can understand it i'm not
saying it was justified right or wrong or anything like that but i mean let's just call it like it is
now once it's out there and i'm not going to repeat everybody knows my favorite saying about the horse
but once it's out there you can't stop it and that's something the mp the mpaa and the ria haven't
figured out yet once it's out there it's it's going to spread and for you to sit there and call
everybody that might look at that code i hell i'm just curious now that it's out there i'm like hey it's
out why not look at it i'm curious i want to see what it's about let me see i've seen the demos of it
it's a phenomenal engine phenomenal i mean just jaw dropping i don't know if you've seen the demo
that's circulating but it's amazing and i'm going to buy no matter what happens no matter if there's
a free somebody compiles it and whatever i'm going to buy half-life 2 the day it comes out undoubtedly
it's incredible absolutely incredible i want to learn i want to see how it was written i want to see what
it does i don't have the time or the energy or the the the know-how frankly to take the code and
write my own game and steal it i first of all i wouldn't do that you know it is not intended to be
open source it became open source accidentally but it wasn't intended to be so i don't know that's
that's interesting if anybody has a different opinion or wants to write in and mention or talk about
that by all means send us a letter letters at BinRev dot com but i don't like a magazine editor
calling me a thief that's what i don't like he's a moron exactly i mean i saw only like a little bit
of a one code of one module and i could hardly tell what it was i could tell what it was doing but i
couldn't follow the details of how it was doing it so i don't think that makes me think you know
i'm trying i'm just trying to learn how you're a thief i think i think i don't know you cross the
line of being a thief or stealing if you actually try to use that code i think there should be a
you know and that you can't prove intent you know intent is just such a difficult word to define
yeah my intent is to learn exactly my intent is to see what it's all about my intent is not to
use it for my own gains you know here's here's where i would see here's what i would call somebody
stealing or call say somebody cross the line if they took all that source code and were selling
cds on the internet of it yeah that's the thing or compiling it making money off of it exactly
with all this with with uh mp3s and movies and everything else if you're not making money off of
it i don't see what the big deal is you know yeah well you know and that's just i guess because
so many of us just have that open source mindset you know i mean i can feel for them
you should have secured your server better frankly that's just not locked down you know you really
should have secured it better that somebody walks right in and took it i feel for you that it was
stolen but i you know again i understand i say i say you kind of brought it on yourself for doing
and half-assed and you get what you pay for you know you get what you deserve that's not condoning
it don't misunderstand here's a very fine line between them nobody secures anything until they
get hacked yeah and yeah what's done is done it's done it's over with now they're they've also released
a couple statements here and they're whining themselves about oh now we're going to push back
the due date we're going to push back the release date we're not going to come out on time and we have
to rewrite all this and that no why yeah for what reason to make it look different from what's already
out there now it's just to make make it look worse make it look like you know they probably were going
to postpone it anyway it's already been postponed a couple times yeah you know i don't think it's
been you know i think it's behind schedule already and now they just have an excuse to push it back
further although i think i also heard recently that they reneged on that and said they are going to
release it on time after all but i don't know anyway somebody i'm sure can write in and correct me on
that um but and and the other thing is hell why not release it as early as possible before people
do decompile it and start coming up with it the sooner you release it people are going to be like
why am i going to bother to try to work and bust my ass to compile this when i can buy it now
well the problem with that is that would make sense well i and you know so many companies seem to miss
that yeah oh god well and here this this editor in the magazine which is why i brought this up this
editor she mentioned
i don't know see any of these real world analogies these metaphors they never work out right she
likened it to finding a wallet full of money on the street
okay and how does that make everyone else stealing exactly it's like okay so first of all you're
talking about finding something as opposed to a going in and stealing something from a server or b
somebody giving you code after it's been circulated on the net so it's not even always going to be the
same you know so it first of all that's a little peculiar right there if i find money in the street i i
have to say i am a pretty honest person if i find money i'm going to look around and try to find out
who it belongs to i really i would well depending on how much money was in there of course but no for
the most part i would try to find out who it is i mean you find it in a restaurant you're going to
give it to the restaurant and say hey somebody might have left this in here i found this under
the table something like that i'm honest i've done it before you know it's guys in the restaurant
i'll just take it so you can feel better about yourself well true there you go there you go but you're
you're off the hook but this is not that's a terrible metaphor because that is a physical
thing that is a wallet that is a thing of money what am i supposed to do email valve and go hey
look what i found here's all your code here i'm going to mail it all back to you yeah right i mean
i can't return it it's out there they can't make these real world analogies exactly the internet they have
to change their way of thinking this is not the old world all these old laws and mindsets of
how things work and all these analogies people want to make they're not they don't work anymore
it's a whole different thing okay i find the code somewhere and i email it back to valve what does that
solve the wallet i can give back to the person they have all their stuff back their driver's license
their money minus a few dollars finder fee um all their personal information they get all that stuff
back what does valve get back it's too late yeah the damage is done i mean i don't know what what they
expect to happen you know i don't either i don't either so um i i i didn't appreciate that editorial too
much i thought it was a waste and i think once again they're trying to use hackers as a scapegoat now
at the same time i can see that there's some validity there because someone did break into
their server and i don't belittle that i don't undermine that so i guess somewhat hackers brought
a bad name on themselves for doing it but they don't need to make it worse
anyway what magazine was this again i'm sorry what magazine was this again this is it's called game
developer magazine game developer right which ironically posts bits and pieces of source
code to some games in it as examples which they they might have released more code than and then was
stolen most likely but then again they sell games well yeah they sell magazines i don't know if they sell
games well you know what i mean yeah advertising and everything else well yeah they definitely definitely
do that that's where the money's at yeah well and i and like i said i i'm gonna buy half-life too
undoubtedly i've seen you have you i forgot you said you did or did not see the demo for that i
have not seen it i mean the physics model in this game is amazing amazing um gosh i wish i had a url to
give out um maybe by the time the show notes come out or by the time we put this up for upload i'll find
a url to the demo to the avi that shows off some of the features the engine itself the lighting
model modules the um the the rendering and i mean again the biggest thing to me was the physics model
it's amazing the way they put in i guess for lack of a better word traps there are places where like
there'll be an alleyway and it's it's reminiscent of the scene from indiana jones where the boulder comes
rolling down at them you can in this game set those kind of things up or see that they're already
set up for you and you see a bunch of uh whatever enemies down in the alleyway and instead of going
down and having a big firefight like typical with most games you may notice that there's a uh i don't
know a fire escape that's hanging loose so you try to shoot down shoot the bolt that's holding it
together and dropped it on their heads um there was one that was like a pachinko machine if you know
what that is um where you knock out one peg and all of a sudden all these barrels start falling down
and as a real world physics model by which they fall and it's just amazing the things that you can do
you have to play angles and and it just adds such an element of strategy to the game
and you can pick things up heavy things boxes stuff like that in the demo you'll see a thing with a
mattress that's incredible and you can take this mattress and throw it on somebody and trap them
under it because it's too heavy the thing where the mattress hits the water and floats on the water
for a little while begins to soak water up and then sinks it's a full real world physics model and
it's incredible it's incredible and i i'm gonna buy it the day it comes out well maybe not the day it
comes out but pretty quickly after it comes out and i'm not even a big gamer i'm gonna have to check
this out now yeah it's very i'll find a url somewhere and post it into the show notes and um you know
what that's probably a good stopping point um did you have anything else you wanted to add to any of
those i didn't mean to just keep right on talking non-stop but i have a tendency to do that i think
we pretty much covered everything yeah on those points um there is one thing actually i want to close
out the show with there's been a lot of um i don't even know how to properly word this actually
there's been a lot of people lately who've posted in the forums and are having real world problems
myself included i mean i've talked about my job situation on the show before and you know it's
frustrating but you got to go on with your day-to-day lives and everything and there's people in the
forums i know especially especially some of the people that are still in high school or even college
that have bad days i guess no other way to put it it's um it's very important
to separate
your life online or your your existence online a forum is just a forum you know there's more to life than a
hacking forum there's more to life than a hacking radio show there's more to life than even life itself
sometimes and people lately i'm just kind of concerned as people who are getting down
about their real world situation and i really don't know i know this kind of sounds corny and
i'm not exactly sure what i'm trying to say here i guess but don't let anything anything in this world
bring you down to the point
where you're considering changing your life or not going on with your life that's not a solution to
things um bad things happen to everybody bad things happen to good people bad things happen to bad
people bad things happen it's part of life the difference is how you deal with things and how you get through
things and who you get through things with and i'm concerned that some people may be
getting too down on themselves and too down on their situation and not looking at it for what it is
you can have a bad day at school you can have a bad year at school lord knows i have
you can have bad things happen in your life you can financially struggle you can have your website
shut down you can have physical problems health problems all of these things can be overcome
so i know this has nothing to do with hacking i know this is you know binary revolution all hacking
all the time but i wanted to get this word in there bad things happen but there are people in this world
that care there are people in this world that will help you through sometimes
surprising people sometimes people you don't know and a lot of people in the forums are there
will help i know everyone in ddp is willing to help when stuff goes on stuff goes on and bad things happen
so don't ever give up on life or give up on things that are going on
and i guess from i guess that's really i don't i don't even know i'm not going to come up with some
wise saying and i'm not trying to but anybody listening to the show that is having stuff like
that go on in your life just go through it you will get through it you will work through it we will help
you people will help you get through it so i'm not pointing that to anybody in specific i'm just
throwing that out there and i guess that's really all i have to say um but i i as long as we're on that
topic i'm also going to segue i guess right into the shouts dakota did you want to shout out to
anybody yeah shout out to mute mute most definitely yep yep mute is um mentioned that he might actually
be giving a um presentation i think he he said something about that really yeah i think i don't
know what about and i haven't talked to him in a couple days now but i'll i'll find out about that
um but i i also i'm going to give out shout outs to in theory um he was actually going to be on the
show this week and when he's ready well he'll be on the show you know whenever he wants to in the
future as well so i'm going to shout out to in theory and his family and and send my condolences
um i'm sorry for what's going on in your life i know bad things are happening but you know how to
get in touch with me you know i'm here you need anything give me a call um so that's that's pretty
much um that's pretty much the show for this week uh decoder do you have any other shots you wanted to
give out yeah shout out to lucky 225 everybody used to call the socal everybody you were pretty
much single-handedly the socal weren't you yeah me lucky lakutis a few other people
scott and still are i got shut down actually oh yeah horrible thing i wish there was another
one that we could count on regularly yeah shout out to lakutis too for hooking up the void bridge
you got going now all right voice over IP hooked up on asterisk and everything good good deal all
right well i guess we're going to close it up our time is up and we got a stream very soon so um
if you have feedback i mentioned earlier but again the email is letters at BinRev.com
and we're going to close today the closing music since tomorrow is the opening
of matrix revolutions and third and final matrix movie we're going to close out with a group called
matrix uh the song called digital and that's it so decoder tell everybody how we end the show until next
week same hack time
Thank you.