This is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers
I see in binary, I speak source code
Step on my toes, I'll post a million jpegs of you and a fag pose
In your digital stance, getting firewalled hoe
Cause I'm riding the net in my six foe
I was a dick with my 56
Now with my cable, I'm able to get that stable
On the out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo
On the digital highway, my name is Neo and I'm a Nero
In a flash, I'll sue you on burning dreamcast
You need some ISOs? Let me through my hard drive rifle
Our exchange you could never stifle
In a digital hug, you just caught the love bug
I bootlegged your CD, I caused a fight between Un and Jay-Z
Your CG, it's all gonna be free
Whether we take it by force or we take it nicely
You feel that rattle in your bones when I tell you we just hacked out Jones
And NASDAQ, leave your fight on your back
Cause I am he who loves to hack and crack
This is dedicated to the hackers and the criminals
Serial code, source code, ISO, RAM, SIP, SIS
This is dedicated to the hackers and the crack
This is Binary Revolution Radio
I am StankDawg and I am joined today on episode 32 by our good friend Rax
Rax, say hello to the people
Hey what's up everyone
And we are coming to you today, February 10th
Well today is not February 10th, but as far as you know it is
February 10th we are streaming this episode
And I have one email that I want to jump on quickly
And then we've got a lot of stuff to go into
So let's jump right into the first email
Which is from Palladir, I believe
D-Y-R, I guess that's pronounced
Very simple question that says
Where does Binary Revolution broadcast from?
Now
Well technically it's not a broadcast, right?
It's a unicast
Right, and I guess
I'm not sure what he really means
If he's asking whether we actually do broadcast
Over a radio station somewhere
Then we don't
We don't broadcast from anywhere, technically
But where are we originating from?
Where are we streaming from?
Where are we shoutcasting from?
Whatever terminology, proper terminology you want to use
First of all
We had episode 7 it was
With Duel and I
Where we talked about
How we put the radio show together
And all the steps and stages
And how we do it
But the short summary version
Is that we stream everything from everywhere
We're on the phone
On the phone right now
And technically I'm in Florida
So if you want to say
Where does it stream from?
Streams from Florida
But it also
Comes from New Mexico
From New York
From Texas
From all kinds of different places
So
From a spider hole
Somewhere in an undisclosed location
In the Middle East
I don't
No, I don't think we've done that yet
Okay
But I'm not ruling it out
I mean
You know, it's a possibility
I don't know if the technology
Is quite there yet
But
So
There's your answer
We don't really broadcast anywhere
But we are homed
I guess
I don't even know if I should say that
Because there isn't really a home
Our home is
BinRev.com
It's all ephemeral
It's all just zeros and ones
Exactly
So
There you go
Paladir
Thank you for the question
Again, check out episode 7
On the
Older episodes page
On the archives
The quote classics
If you want to refer to them as such
Or the old junk
Whatever you want to call it
I'm okay with that
The only
The other thing I wanted to talk about
With you particularly
Because you and I
Have an interesting
Look at this
Is the Super Bowl
The Super Bowl has streamed
Since the last time
You and I were talked
And one of the things
That everybody looks forward to
For the Super Bowl
Is
Not the football
But the commercials
During the Super Bowl
That's the only thing
I watch it for
As a matter of fact
A lot of my geek friends
I mean
We've been doing this
For about four years
We just get together
You know
Have some food
Have some drinks
And turn the thing down
When the game is on
And turn it up
For the commercials
And of course
The halftime show
But we won't go there
Actually I do
I like football
So
But the game
Didn't get interesting
Until the end
So I kind of was
Back and forth between it
And yes
I kind of did the same thing
When it went to commercial
I would watch
Some of the commercials
I don't know
If this is a general
Overall phenomenon
Is happening
On all of television
But on this Super Bowl
I guess more than any other
More than anything recently
It really stood out to me
How many more
Tech related commercials
There were out there
I mean obviously
There's been more and more
Because it's becoming
A bigger part of our society
And our world
That we live in
But
I really felt this time
That
Well especially like
There were a lot of
Crossover commercials
Like for example
The one that
A lot of people
Were curious
And came out
Was the Pepsi
And iTunes commercial
So you've got Pepsi
Who of course
Has been making commercials
For years and years
But combining with iTunes
You know
They're starting to do
These partnerships
Where they capitalize
On each other's names
Yeah but let's face it
The most
Probably the most
Famous commercial
Of all time
Was aired only once
It was aired
At the Super Bowl
In 1984
And it was the
Famous Apple
1984 commercial
And it
Amazingly
That it was only
Aired once
I mean that
That to me
Is amazing
Yeah but I mean
It's been floating
Around forever
You know
Yeah it has
But I mean
It actually
In a weird way
Had more of an impact
Because it only
Aired once
It gave it
Like a mystique
Has kind of a mystique
About it
Because of that
Yeah
You know
And that much
More effective
It was so
Powerful of a commercial
That they only
Needed to show it
Once
And that was it
Well it's just
You know
It's marketing 101
You know
You have
You make it
Something exclusive
And you know
You either make it
Available everywhere
And try to get
Saturation that way
Or you make it
Exclusive
And you try to
Buy Mindshare
From that exclusivity
Right
But you know
I think a few years ago
Before you know
The dot com bust
You know
You had the
You had
You know
Pets.com
With the famous
Sock puppet
He even came back
Kind of
I think it was
Last year
I guess
He came back
And made a
You know
Someone pulled him
Out of mothballs
And used it again
But you know
All the monster.com
Commercials
All the e-trade
Everything else
And I think
A few years ago
Actually it was
More technology
Related than now
The biggest thing
I noticed
This is probably
Every year
But this is
Fresh in my mind
Was all the
Budweiser commercials
Oh that's
Definitely
Every year
But now
Coolest commercials
I think
The funniest
Was
And I missed it
Because I was
Going to the can
But someone
Had described it
To me
About the couple
I guess
And that horse
Drawn carriage
And the candle
And the
The flatulent horse
The horse flatulence
Yes exactly
But aside from that
I think the coolest
Commercials were
For the Ford GT40
And I actually
Got a chance
To see that
The Ford GT40
In person
At the Detroit
Auto Show
A couple of weeks
Back
Right
We talked about
That
Yeah
There was another
Budweiser commercial
With the donkey
That I kind of liked
I thought that was
A cute commercial
That was nice
Yeah they were
Talking about that
On NPR
They had some
Media analyst
On NPR
And said you know
It was great
It was funny
And everything else
And it would have
Been good just
Kind of as a
Parody of itself
If it didn't have
It went just a
Little bit too far
When it had that
Extra platitude
Of the donkey
Actually becoming
You know one of
The Clyde sales
I think it was
Funny as heck
You know
I even got hair
Extensions
You see this donkey
With the hairy feet
And stuff
That was great
But
That was good
But yeah
I don't know
There's nothing
Particularly
You know
Superly
Amazingly striking
And as far as
The halftime show
I mean come on
That is planned
The pictures are
All over the net
If you look at that
Where Janet Jackson
Claims that
The front of her
Boostier was ripped
Well you look at that
Because they do have
Up close and personal
Pictures of that
There's no little
Tatters of red cloth
Around the edge
So that was
Completely planned
You know
Yeah I mean
It absolutely
It so obviously
Was
The only question
Still outstanding
To me
Is
I have no doubt
That she knew
About it
But did he
And I really think
He had to have
Known about it too
He still claims
I don't know
If you watched
The Grammys
But the Grammys
Justin came up
And won some award
I don't know what
And said
That it was an accident
And he apologizes
If anyone was
Offended
And I don't know
If I buy that
Part of it completely
Yeah well
You know
It doesn't really
Matter that much
To me
Yeah but it's
Inappropriate
Kind of like
Think about it
We went from
30 years ago
Or 40 years ago
Now I guess
When the Beatles
Were on TV
That's just been
Recently
You know
And the
Controversial song
Is I Want to
Hold Your Hand
Okay that was
Really racy
I Want to
Hold Your Hand
Oh my gosh
You know
Fast forward
About 35 years
You know
Back five years ago
Or whatever
With you know
Nine inch nails
I want to
You like an animal
Okay
So we've come
In 30-40 years
From I Want to
Hold Your Hand
Being racy
To you know
The other one
I think his song
Is actually called
Closer
So you've come
You know
That far
So keep pushing
The edge
Keep trying
To make things
Shocking
Where is it
Going to end
I don't know
But it's
You know
It's
I guess
We're just
Becoming so jaded
And there's
Literally nothing
Virtually nothing
Shocking anymore
So Hannah tried
To push the edge
A little bit
And you know
Obviously some backlash
But
Right
You know
She'd lose a lot
Of respect
For some of those
You know
What is simply
Nothing more
Than a publicity stunt
You know
Yeah
But anyway
So let's talk
Some technology stuff
Well actually
It's funny
Let's tie this
Into technology
Because I assume
You've probably heard
On the news
As well as I have
That that was
The number one
Most searched
Thing of all time
Was the internet
Halftime show
After that
That controversy
As much as
It was again
Inappropriate
The same way
I put a disclaimer
On the top
Of our show notes
A reminder to myself
To cut out
The foul language
Because it's really
Not appropriate
I want to try
To keep it controlled
I never can stop it
If I feel
Incensed about something
I want to say
What I need to say
I sometimes
Will let them out
But I don't want
To censor myself
But I try to keep
It reined in
And the same thing
With the Super Bowl
I kind of feel
The same way
I mean
That seems inappropriate
To me
But the tech
Relationship
Is that
That was
The number one
Most searched
Item in history
On the internet
Yep
It actually
Exceeded
The searching
For the information
On 9-11
Exactly
The other thing
I think is interesting
Is that
TiVo had released
That was the most
Viewed thing
Ever
In the history
Of TiVo
You know
Fast forwarding
And reversing
And whatever
The scary part
About that is
TiVo knows
Exactly what
Everyone's watching
That's what
I was getting
Ready to say
I heard that
And I don't
Have a TiVo
And don't know
Exactly how it works
But I thought
It was a hard drive
Type situation
Where you store
Stuff on your TiVo
Locally
And you can rewind
It because it's
Stored there
And you can back up
Skip the commercials
Or whatever
It is
But there's
How can
That seems like
A very huge
Huge invasion
Of privacy
If they actually
Watch and maintain
Well there's obviously
A feedback loop
For that
Second of all
As far as invasion
Of privacy
When you sign the contract
You agree to have
That information released
Right
Allegedly
It's just aggregate data
So they can't identify
The viewing habits
Of an individual person
And if you have enough
I was talking to someone
About this before
Our 2600 meeting here
I met someone
At the borders
But if you have enough
People doing something
It's basically like
Hiding in a crowd
So you've got
How many of them
Millions of people
Watching the Super Bowl
Literally around the world
But even let's say
I don't know
How many TiVo owners
There are out there
But let's assume
That you know
I don't know
Let's say
Three quarters of a million
TiVos were tuned
Into the Super Bowl
And watching that
So identifying
Just think of the volume
Of data they'd have to keep
And store
Just to see
What the viewing habits
Of an individual person
Would be
They'd have to be
Highly motivated
To see what that
Individual is doing
It's certainly possible
But again
You know
You have a little bit
Of that ability
Of hiding in plain sight
But it is just
In general scary
Well you know
Aggregate information
Is one thing
Looking at a general
Overall number
But it's scary
Do they have the potential
To watch an individual person
Doubably
If
Well see
I have no doubts
Of it at all
And what
What scruples are involved
What is the line
Where
You know
What's going to stop
The government
Or anybody
For that matter
To get a summons
Subpoena
Saying give us
The information
Of what this person
Watched
Or what this person
You know
Let's take it
To the next level
Beyond that
Okay
Relating
You can relate this
To the MPAA
The RIAA
Any of the things
Like that
But every
Bit of data
That you're getting
Through your
Internet connection
From your ISP
Unless you're
Tunneling it somewhere
All that can be
Monitored
Every IP address
Every picture you see
Every website you go to
That can all be
Monitored
Right
And that
That to me
Is more like
What you said earlier
About hiding in a crowd
Right
But again
If there's
You know
If they figure
Okay
Stank Dog
Is a
Mr. Dog
Is a
You know
Threat to national security
They'll start monitoring
What Mr. Dog
Is doing on the internet
Right
Well
You know
And also
But it kind of
It kind of worries me
What you said a minute ago
About you know that
When you sign the contract
Well your typical
Everyday person
The majority of them
And frankly
I'm not above it
There are some times
I'm in a hurry
I might not
If it seems harmless enough
I would probably read
My TiVo information
Pretty good
Since I know
The technology aspect
But just because
You sign the contract
And just because
They say in there
That they can do it
Doesn't make it right
And doesn't make it okay
You still have the right
To be outraged
And upset
And offended
Well you have the right
To be outraged
You're upset and offended
You even have the right
To launch a lawsuit
But contract law
Is such that
Right
Basically it's given
That both parties
Have the same amount
Of rights and power
At that time
If you don't like
The terms of the agreement
You don't have to
Sign up for it
Right
And actually
I was going to say
The opposite
I was going to say
You don't really have
The right to sue them
Well you have the right
To sue them
But don't expect to win
Because I have studied
Contract law
And yes
You're absolutely right
You've signed it
And you're pretty much
You know
Unless there was
Something in there
That was worded improperly
Or some loophole
Blah blah blah
Without going into detail
Yeah
When you sign that contract
You're agreeing to it
And you kind of
Waive those rights
Right
But that having been said
That's what class action
Lawsuits are all about
A bunch of people say
Hey we're being ripped off
This is unfair practice
And you know
Whether it's leasing a car
Or some credit card things
Those are a couple
That I can think of
That I've you know
Gotten information
About stuff
For a class action
Lawsuit that was developed
Because of those practices
Those terms and conditions
Of the contract
Were unfair
Absolutely
Absolutely right
Okay
Oh
Another commercial
That I did actually
Want to bring up
Was
And it's been on the web
For quite a while
And I think we've actually
Seen it on
Aired a few times
But airing it
During the Super Bowl
Was another big
Important step for me
And that was the
IBM Linux commercial
Yeah
And they did not show
The full long version
I really really wish
They would have shown
A good two minute long
Well wait a minute
Think about it
It was two and a half
Million dollars
For thirty seconds
Okay
I know
But look at Budweiser
How many of those
Thirty second blocks
Did they buy
Yeah there's
I think there's
Less overhead
In producing beer
Than there is
In producing hardware
But go ahead
I think
I think IBM
Had more than one
Of those thirty second slots
So instead of airing
I don't know how many
We'd have to look it up
And verify
And I'm sure we could do that
If we were so motivated
If they had five thirty minute ones
I think it could have been better
To air one big
Two and a half
Minute
Long version
Instead of five
Thirty minute
Or thirty second
Excuse me
Thirty second short versions
Well they might not have had that
As an option either
Well that's
Yeah that's absolutely true as well
But regardless of the fact
Linux commercial on the air
IBM backing it
So you got a big name of IBM
Saying Linux is okay
Which again
This is not new
But it's new
To that audience
The Superbowl
Watching audience
Your everyday
At home person
Watching the Superbowl
Has probably
And might not
Have been exposed
To those commercials
And realized
That hey
IBM says Linux is okay
You know
So I think
That was a very
Very good
Positive move
And a great
Great use of
Of commercial time
As opposed to
And
I
I find them as
Entertaining as anyone else
But guess what
The Budweiser commercials
Are they really selling
Budweiser
I mean
Budweiser's gonna
One of the
Again
I was listening to NPR today
And they were talking about it
And that donkey commercial
Specifically
That was reinforcing
The quote unquote
Brand
Of those
Lightestale horses
Right
And I mean
Those things are
Part of it is
You know
Building the brand name
Building the recognition
Building the mystique
You know
Building all that
Kind of stuff
Is what makes
You know
That's important to them
So you'll think of Bud
Rather than
You know
Some other
Watered down
Barley and malt
And hops
You know
Me I drink Guinness
If I drink beer
I drink Guinness
But
Endorsement
How much do you get
Paid for that?
I probably won't even
Get a free pint out of it
But anyway
That's another story
I've talked
By the way
This is not the first
I've done this
I've talked about
Drinking 180
Before on the air
On RFA
I used to talk about that
But I don't think
You can get 180 anymore
I'm kind of bummed
Hmm
I don't know
I bet you probably
You've got to go
To the right places man
You've got to get
Down the hood
Yeah I've been trying
Anyway
Yeah this
See the thing about it is
Bud
I have a theory
And I really wanted
To actually do something
Now I wanted to do
An analysis on this
Or maybe even write
A thesis on this
For college
And never got the opportunity
And of course
My free time is limited
But I have a theory
Budweiser
In addition to the
Like you said
The brand recognition
They're getting that name
Out there
And they're burning it
Into your mind
Repetition
Saying the name
Over and over again
It's like on the radio
They have those commercials
Call 1-800
Blah blah blah
To find out
About more
1-800
That number again
Is when they repeat it
To ingrain that
Into your mind
And that's what
Budweiser's doing
That's the
I guess I shouldn't say
Obvious
But that's the main
Point of some of these
When they're not
Actually showing
Or pitching the product
Because we know
What their product is
They're Budweiser
They're a huge name
They're an absolute
Giant in the industry
You know
They don't have to
Come out and pimp
The product
Same thing with Pepsi
And some of those
Let's just get some
Celebrities
Throw them on TV
To get attention
To put their name
In people's head
Well I have another
Theory with Budweiser
And I think it's
A very interesting
I may be way off
Another conspiracy thing
But I think
They are actually
Not only doing it
For the name
Recognition factor
I think they're doing it
And treating it
As a product
Because now
They can sell
And I know it sounds
Silly but
All I'm going to say
Is the Budweiser frogs
They can sell
T-shirts
They can sell
Stuffed frogs
They can sell
Donkeys and stuff
Like that
They are not
Treating it only
And I think
It's actually
I've got to say
It's very smart
It's a very smart move
They're not only
Selling Budweiser
As a name
As brand recognition
But they're also
Selling clothing
And caps
And hats
And stuffed animals
And download
Screen savers
And you know
Selling screen savers
And stuff like
They're actually
Making money
Off of
The money they spend
On commercials
Well sure
And I think
That's really
Something unique
Not unique to them
But I think
They are the best
At it
Budweiser
Well I mean
You can look
At any of the things
Why do you think
All the Home Depots
And Marlboro
And that all
Sponsors
And NASCAR
So they get
Their little patch there
But they make
A boatload of money
Selling like you said
The hats
The t-shirts
You know
You name it
But you know
So all those things
End up becoming
A profit center
For them as well
Absolutely
I don't think
There's any conspiracy
About that at all
I mean that's just
A statement of fact
You know
Once you've got
Enough people
Liking something
You know
I don't pick
Donna Karan
Clothing
Or you know
I don't know
Any of these
Other designers
Ralph Lauren
And all that
Other stuff
I mean the only
Thing that's making
Their stuff
Different than
Anything else
Is just that
Particular name
On it
So it's again
Back to marketing
101
You know
You make a
Specific brand name
And you give
The perception
That that's
More important
Than another one
And people are
Willing to pay
For it
Which actually
Brings me back
To some dual set
Last week
Talking about
That book from
The guy who
Been behind
Adbusters
Right
We've been so
Programmed
To accept
All that stuff
And believe
All that stuff
And you know
Think about it
I can't tell you
How many people
I know that
They'll
Like for example
A monitor
Someone I know
Would only
100%
Absolutely
Only ever
Ever
Buy a Sony
Monitor
Period
End of discussion
Let alone the
Fact that first of
All that they
Have some pretty
Good technology
Like the CRT
Monitors
Trinitron
And all that
But there's a
Bunch of other
Companies that are
Using that
And they're just
Not putting the
Sony name on it
So you know
It's that
Mindshare
If you can
Buy that
If you can
Program people
To do this
Kind of stuff
It absolutely
Pays
You know
We could go
Into a whole
Diatribe
This is not
Really technology
Related
But like
If any of
The listeners
Out there
Are interesting
Look up
I think it was
In the early
80s
There was an
Article in
Esquire magazine
It's online
About the
DeVere
Stamling
And diamonds
And you
Will be
Or go to
Amnesty
International
Look at
Some of the
Little flash
Movies they
Have
And you
Will be
Absolutely
Shocked
And horrified
By all the
Blood money
And everything
Else that's
Going on
Behind diamonds
And diamonds
Really aren't
That rare
And they're
Really not
Worth that
Much
But completely
Untechnology
Related
But from a
Social aspect
You know
We have to
Deprogram
Desensitize
Ourselves
To all
This
Marketing
And crap
That we
Get thrown
At us
All the
Time
Right
And it
May not
Be
Technology
Related
But it
Is
Hacking
The mind
And breaking
The mindset
And I do
Think that's
Appropriate
I don't have
A problem
Talking about
That
So
Don't feel
Free
You don't have
To rein
Yourself in
I think
This is
Absolutely
Appropriate
Discussion
For the show
It's still
Interesting
So yeah
I think
Yeah
I think
We pretty
Much exhausted
That
Oh there
Was
The AOL
Commercials
You saw
The AOL
Commercials
With
I don't know
If you
Recognize
But the
Guys from
American Chopper
Yeah
Which I
Thought that
Was just
An intriguing
Combination
To put on
The Super
Bowl
Which is
Mass market
You know
People
What do they
Call it
Broadcasts
Television
But they
Use these
I won't say
Characters
Because I
Guess they're
Real people
From
You know
TLC
Is it
TLC
Or Discovery
I forget
Which one
American
Chopper
Is on
One of
Those two
Channels
So they
Use these
People from
An educational
Cable channel
And put them
I don't know
If I
Call
The
Orange County
Chopper
People
Paul
I don't know
If I
Call that
Education
It's more
Quasi
Reality
TV
That one's
A little
Bit
Over
There's a lot
Of drama
In there
But there's
Also a lot
Of mechanics
In there
There's also
A lot
Of interesting
Watching how
They create
Stuff
So it has
Some educational
Value
I would say
In my opinion
But that's
Just me
I love
Monster Garage
For that
Same
Thing
To watch
What they
Can do
And how
They go
About doing
Some of
The stuff
I find it
Interesting
I also
Every once
In a while
I find it
Interesting
Just to watch
The melodrama
That's professional
Wrestling
Oh yeah
Well that's a
Whole
That's a whole
Other story
What is the term
Sports
Entertainment
That's what
They call it
Now
Yeah
They call it
That now
But hey
Still
You can't
Deny the
Athleticism
Of those
People
I wouldn't
Go up to
One of those
Guys
And say
Hey you're
Just a big
Phony
Yeah
One of those
Dudes is
I think
Seven foot
Five hundred
Pounds
Yeah
Good
Glory
Hoka mocha
Yeah
Anyway
Body slammed
Me against
The wall
You know
See how
Real did
That feel
Was that
Big
Yeah
Exactly
Yeah
Oh he
Rolled with
The punch
Or whatever
Well guess
What
He still
Got punched
Yeah
Anyway
Let's move
On to our
Personal hacking
Stories
And you
And I
Both
Of course
I think
We're
Going to
Talk about
Same
Thing
Different
Locations
And that
Was our
2600
Meetings
Which were
This past
Friday
I had a
Pretty good
Meeting
I got
There
I got
To mine
Early
Actually
And
Started
Working
On a
Presentation
I was
I don't
Know what
I'm going
To do
With it
I was
Thinking
I might
Present
It
Hope
If they'll
Have me
I don't
Know how
That process
Works
Of submitting
It or
Whatever
Possibly
For inner
Zone
Or
Defcon
I don't
Know
But
Anyway
I started
Working
On a
Presentation
AS400
Presentation
I'm not
Sure
How it
Will
Go
Over
But
Got
Started
On that
Which
I had
Been
Putting
Off
So
It was
Good
Quiet
Time
You know
It's
Funny
I got
I had
Quiet
Time
In the
Center
Of a
Food
Court
In the
Mall
It was
Actually
Kind of
Ironic
But
We
Let's
See
People
Started
To show
Up
I guess
Around
Six
The
First
Person
Showed
Up
Somewhere
Between
Six
And
Seven
And
Started
Talking
Our
Main
Point
Of
Conversation
Was
Some
Local
Root Wars
We're
Trying
To
Put
On
A
Root
War
Locally
Put
In
A
Lab
Self
Sustained
Self
Contained
Lab
And
Stuff
Like
That
So
That
Was
One
Of
The
Points
Of
Conversation
And
That's
Been
Ongoing
And
That
Was
Really
It
For
My
Meeting
Got
To
Talk
To
A
Couple
Of
The
Guys
That
Were
Semi
Regulars
At
The
Meeting
That
Were
Really
Very
Interesting
Guys
Very
You
Know
Interested
In
Just
General
Programming
Practices
And
The
Differences
And
Kind
Of
An
Overview
On
Programming
And
We
Kind
Of
Sat
Down
And
Went
Through
A
Few
Things
And
It
Was
Good
For
Me
Because
A
Couple
Of
The
Semi
Or
Semi
Regulars
Or
Occasional
Whenever
They
Get
Off
Work
Or
Get
Time
Guys
I
Got
To
Kind
Of
I
Guess
It
Sounds
Corny
But
I
Kind
Of
Bond
With
Them
And
Talk
With
Them
Hang
Out
For
A
Little
Bit
And
We
Headed
Over
To
Barnes
And
Nobles
After
It
Was
Over
And
Checked
Out
The
New
2600
Magazine
Stuff
Like
That
So
They're
All
Good
Meetings
I
Always
Make
The
Best
Of
Whatever
Is
There
And
This
Was
A
Pretty
Good
Meeting
I
Had
Fun
Other
Than
That
I
Mentioned
On
The
Show
Before
I
Switched
To
And
I
Don't
Know
If
You're
Familiar
With
Those
Or
Know
Much
About
Them
But
It's
Kind
Of
Looking
Ahead
At
How
I'm
Going
To
Set
My
Phone
System
Up
Because
I
Still
Need
Phones
In
Different
Rooms
And
Stuff
Like
That
So
Kind
Of
Working
Out
Logistics
Of
That
But
Man
They're
Kind
Of
Pricey
Yeah
Well
You
Know
The
I'm
Sure
One
Of
The
You're
Doing
5.8
Gigahertz
Is
To
Avoid
Interference
With
802.11b
Or
802.11g
Right
Absolutely
They have
2.4
That
Accomplish
The
Same
Thing
Logistically
That
I
Want
To
Do
And
That's
One
Base
And
Then
Expandability
With
Different
Headsets
But
Yeah
You're
Absolutely
Right
I've
Heard
Conflicting
Reports
And
Some
People
Say
Oh
All
You
Gotta
Do
Is
Use
A
Different
Channel
And
Blah
You
Know
What
I'm
Just
You
Know
I'm
Just
Gonna
Avoid
The
Potential
Conflict
Altogether
And
Go
With
4.8
I've
Even
Considered
Possibly
Looking
Low
Tech
Going
Old
School
And
Maybe
Getting
A
900
But
I
Don't
Know
If
They're
Going
To
Be
Able
To
Do
The
Same
Thing
I
Don't
Know
If
There's
Enough
Bandwidth
There
To
Do
You
Know
Three
The
Audio
Quality
I
Think
Would
Be
Poor
It's
Also
More
Susceptible
To
Interference
The
2.4
Gigahertz
Is
The
ISM
Industrial
Scientific
Medical
Band
That's
Unregulated
But
It
Is
True
That
You
Can
Change
Channels
But
I've
Got
A
2.4
Gig
Here
And
If
I'm
Nuking
Something
In
The
Kitchen
And
I
Have
To
Walk
Into
The
Kitchen
I'm
On
The
Cordless
Phone
It
Gets
All
Static
And
You
Have
To
Say
Shorter
Range
So
Well
Just
Within
The
House
Three
Handsets
Well
That
Looks
Like
The
Best
Bet
For
Me
Now
I
Just
Got
To
Find
The
Right
Brand
And
The
Best
Price
So
I'm
Going
To
Be
Watching
For
Sales
And
Stuff
Like
That
Here
In
The
Next
Month
I'll
Be
To
Make
A
Complete
Crossover
But
We
Shall
See
Now
How
About
Your
Meeting
You
Went
I
Assume
Yep
Went
We
Didn't
Have
A
Particular
Topic
Planned
Or
Presentation
Planned
This
Time
So
We
Just
Kind
Of
Went
And
Hung
Out
We've
Got
As
Stank
Mentioned
The
New
2600
Man
Came
Out
So
Thanks
To
All
The
Work
Of
Slip
Mode
And
He
Was
Working
With
Nine
Volt
Who
I
Guess
Works
For
2600
Now
We've
Got
The
Meeting
Location
Is
Updated
In
The
Magazine
As
Well
As
On
2600
Dot
Com
And
AZ
2600
Has
The
Proper
Meeting
Location
So
We
Saw
A
Couple
Of
New
Faces
Just
Kind
Of
Talked
In
General
About
Some
Things
We
Had
An
Interesting
Thing
That
I
Read
That
I
Talked
One
On
One
Or
One
On
Two
Or
Three
At
A
Time
With
Some
People
Is
The
Concept
Of
Port
Knocking
That
We'll
Get
Into
Here
In
A
Minute
But
We
Just
Had
Some
Kind
Of
Generally
Good
Conversations
Probably
Some
People
Came
Early
And
Left
Early
And
Some
People
Came
Late
And
Stayed
Late
We
Probably
Had
About
15
18
People
Show
Up
Through
The
Course
Of
The
Evening
And
Then
We
Started
A
New
Tradition
Last
Month
We
Got
To
A
Local
Chewy's
Mexican
Restaurant
Kind
Of
A
Funky
Beach
Style
Mexican
Restaurant
And
Had
Some
Food
And
Chips
And
Salsa
And
Stuff
Like
That
That's
A
Great
Tradition
Everyone
Didn't
Enjoy
It
Last
Month
All
I
Know
Is
I'm
Hungry
I'm
Going
To
Here
If
Anyone
Wants
To
Come
That's
Fine
If
Not
I'll
See
You
Later
Right
Yeah
That's
Great
To
Hang
Out
And
Mingle
And
Discuss
Things
With
People
With
Similar
Interests
You
Know
That
Alone
Is
Worth
A
Meeting
Sometimes
If
Your
Meeting
Doesn't
Have
A
Specific
Topic
Just
Meeting
And
Talking
With
Like
Minded
People
Is
Still
A
Good
Fun
And
Enjoyable
Meeting
Absolutely
Yeah
There's
A lot
Of
Good
Information
Gets
Passed
Back
And
For
With
Things
One
Of
The
Things
We
Talked
About
A
Little
Bit
There
And
We
Had
Mentioned
In
Past
Episodes
Here
On
Bin
Rev
Radio
Is
The
Concept
The
Idea
Of
A
Phoenix
Conference
Or
Hacker
Gathering
Or
What
Have
You
Right
You
Know
I'm
Sorry
To
Interrupt
But
I'm
Glad
You
Brought
That
Up
Last
Week
Someone
Emailed
Asking
If
We
Had
Any
More
Information
About
It
And
Of
I
Pointed
Them
To
The
Forums
And
To
Contact
You
Guys
About
It
But
Do
You
Have
I
Guess
You
Were
Going
To
And
We're
Going
To
Start
Popping
The
Things
Up
There
So
We
Can
Rather
Just
Meeting
Once
Per
Month
Or
Trying
To
Pop
Emails
Back
And
Forth
A
Couple
People
As
The
Listeners
Of
In
Rev
Radio
May
Know
We
Also
Do
Here
In
Addition
To
Being
The
2600
Meeting
We
Do
It
The
DC
602
Meeting
The
Defcon
Meeting
And
It's
All
Same
Thing
I
Don't
Care
What
You
Call
It
You
Know
Just
Label
It
Whatever
You
Want
To
Label
It
So
It's
All
Good
It's
All
One
Big
Type
Of
Meeting
Thing
So
I
Set
Up
An
Area
On
The
Forums
For
That
So
If
You
Go
Into
DC
602.org
And
You'll
See
A
Section
laid
Aside
For
That
So
Slip
Mode
Who
Has
Been
Kind
Of
Heading
Up
The
Ideas
On
This
Stuff
Has
Posted
Some
Information
In
There
A
Little
Bit
Of
Background
On
That
And
Let's
Get
A
Hacker
Con
Going
In
Arizona
Is
What
It
Starts
Out
With
And
One
Of
The
Other
Guys
That
Showed
Up
He
Had
A
Couple
Of
Things
Before
He
Had
Mentioned
Something
That
I
Found
Kind
Of
Intriging
Is
That
It
Might
Be
Worth
Considering
Doing
Something
Like
That
Obviously
Won't
Be
Especially
First
Time
Around
It
Out
Here
In
Phoenix
In
The
In
The
Winter
Time
Of
We
Don't
Really
Get
Snow
In
Arizona
In
The
Winter
So
But
Anyway
To
Have
An
Outdoor
Kind
Of
Thing
Where
Everyone
Can
Come
And
Basically
Get
Here
And
It
Doesn't
Cost
You
Too
Much
To
Camp
Out
And
Do
This
Stuff
So
We're
Going
To
Investigate
That
A
Little
Bit
And
We're
Going
To
Be
Bouncing
Ideas
Back
And
For
About
That
And
We
Have
A
Site
Tentatively
Picked
Out
There's
A
Place
It's
Called
Australia
Mountain
Park
It's
Over
On
The
West
Side
Of
Town
And
They're
Actually
This
Week
For
About
Five
Days
The
Society
For
Creative
Anachronism
People
Who
Dress
Up
In
16th
Century
Clothing
And
Have
Wars
And
Battle
Like
They
Used
To
Battle
Back
Then
This
Is
The
20th
Year
Aminable
To
Having
People
Come
And
Do
Some
Kind
Of
Unusual
Things
There
So
We're
Going
To
Check
Into
That
A
Little
Bit
So
If
You're
Interested
If
You're
In
The
Area
I
Even
If
You're
Not
In
The
Area
I
Know
Bin
Rev
Radio
Reaches
Just
About
To
The
Four
Corners
Of
The
Earth
DC
602.org
And
The
Forums
We'll
Have
We'll
Start
Popping
Things
Back
And
Forth
There
So
Share
Your
Ideas
Like
I
Said
Still
In
The
Formative
Stages
Now
But
Again
The
Idea
Being
That
We'll
Share
Information
Have
Presentations
Have
Some
Social
Aspects
To
It
And
All
That
Other
Stuff
So
Let
Us
Know
What
You
Think
Sounds
Like
A
Great
Idea
And
Very
You
Mentioned
The
Chaos
Computer
Club
But
Obviously
They're
Not
In
The
United
States
I
Think
This
Would
Be
Something
Unique
To
The
U.S.
The
Only
One
Of
Its
Type
Here
In
The
States
So
Right
If
We
Do
It
This
Time
Of
Year
Stanks
In
Florida
I'm
In
Arizona
It's
Pretty
Nice
Out
Here
Even
Though
We
Desert
Rats
In
Arizona
Think
It's
Kind
Of
Cool
I
Was
Up
In
Michigan
A
Few
Weeks
Back
And
Between
The
Snow
And
The
Cold
And
Everything
Else
It'll
Give
An
Excuse
For
People
Living
In
New
York
And
Duluth
Fargo
North
Dakota
And
Everything
Else
An
Excuse
To
Get
Back
Into
The
Warm
Climate
Sometime
In
Winter
Yeah
We
Don't
Have
Winter
Down
Here
If
A
Snowflake
Fell
There
Would
Be
Panic
In
The
Streets
Yeah
Okay
Well
That's
Very
Good
Now
Our
Primary
Topic
Is
Something
That
You
Mentioned
For
You
Were
Talking
About
Your
2600
Meeting
And
You
And
I
Talked
About
It
On
The
Phone
This
Past
Weekend
And
That
Is
Port
Knocking
Now
I've
Done
Some
Research
On
This
As
Well
But
It
Was
All
Prompted
From
You
Mentioning
And
Explaining
It
To
Me
So
I'll
Let
You
Take
Over
And
Explain
This
And
Kind
Of
Talk
About
It
A
Little
Bit
Okay
Port
Knocking
Is
I guess
Let's
Drop
Back
To
The
Basic
So
Computing
101
TCP
IP
101
Every
IP
Address
On
The
Internet
Has
65
535
Ports
And
You
Can
Think
Of
A
Port
Like
An
Extension
Number
For
A
Company
So
If
You
Call
800-555-1212
And
You
Ask
For
Extension
Number
100
Maybe
You
Get
Sales
And
You
Ask
For
Extension
200
And
You
Get
Support
So
By
Calling
That
One
Number
And
Having
Different
Extensions
You
Can
Have
Different
Types
Of
Services
On
The
Other
Side
So
TCP
IP
Does
That
As
Well
And
Without
Getting
Big
Into
The
OSI
Model
And
The
TCP
IP
Model
And
Everything
Else
There's
TCP
Ports
And
UDP
Ports
But
That's
Irrelevant
For
The
Purposes
Of
Our
Discussion
So
If
You
Also
At
Bin
Rev
There
Can
Be
An
FTP
Site
There
And
There
Can
Be
IRC
And
There
Can
Be
Other
Things
All
On
That
Same
IP
Address
And
What
Differentiates
It
When
The
Packet
Finally
Makes
It
To
That
Particular
IP
Address
Is
The
Port
Number
So
Each
IP
Address
Has
Again
65,535
Port
Numbers
Now
When
You
Have
A
Port
Open
You
Have
The
Possibility
Of
Being
Exploited
In
Other
Words
A
Program
Can
Send
A
Packet
Of
Information
To
A
Particular
Port
With
Specific
Types
Of
Data
Normally
Again
Like
When
We
Do
With
The
Web
Server
We
Send
A
Request
And
We
Get
Information
Back
From
That
Web
Server
But
A
Lot
Of
The
Crashes
A
Lot
Of
The
Problems
On
The
Internet
Occur
When
Bad
Data
Is
Sent
To
Ports
Sent
To
Specific
Ports
For
Example
The
What
Was
The
SQL
Worm
Called
Last
Year
Stank
That
Was
That
Slammer
The
Slammer
Worm
Right
So
That
Was
Going
To
Microsoft
Port
It
Was
A
1300
Something
But
There
Is
A
Specific
Port
That
Microsoft
SQL
Server
Listens
To
And
If
That
Port
Happens
To
Be
Open
To
The
Internet
And
There
Is
A
SQL
Server
On
The
Other
Side
This
Worm
Would
Go
In
And
Send
Specific
Data
To
That
Port
Number
And
The
SQL
Server
Would
Get
It
And
Do
Nasty
Kinds
Of
Stuff
So
We
Have
A
Thing
Called
Firewalls
That
Blocks
Access
To
Ports
And
By
Default
Or
Specifically
You
Should
If
You're
Not
Going
To
Have
What
Am I
Trying
To
Say
Here
If
There
Should
Be
No
Reason
For
Example
For
Most
People
To
Get
To
A
Specific
Servers
On
And
Get
To
That
Port
That
SQL
Server
Is
On
It
Just
Should
Be
Blocked
Off
Now
The
Problem
Is
You
Can't
Block
Everything
Off
You
Have
To
Have
Certain
Ports
Open
So
Again
For
Example
If
You
Have
A
Web
Server
And
You
Want
People
From
The
Outside
World
To
Get
To
That
You
Have
To
Have
Port
80
Open
And
There
Are
Specific
Ports
For
FTP
And
SMTP
And
POP
And
What
Have
You
But
The
Trouble
Is
The
More
Of
Those
Ports
That
You
Have
Open
The
More
Susceptible
You
Are
To
Have
Problems
Think
Of
Them
As
Little
Teeny
Tiny
Pinholes
In
Your
Defenses
So
The
Concept
Of
Port
Knocking
Which
I
Just
Read
About
Last
Week
And
I
Guess
The
University
Of
Michigan
Is
Where
They
Started
Working
On
The
Cypher
Padlock
You
Don't
Have
To
Have
A
Key
And
You
Need
To
Know
The
Specific
Sequence
To
Push
Those
Buttons
So
Think
Of
All
These
Ports
So
We
Talked
About
Them
As
Being
Extension
Numbers
On
The
Phone
System
Think
For
A
Moment
Of
Them
As
Being
Buttons
And
In
Order
To
Open
Up
Let's
Say
Port
Number
I
Don't
Know
What
There
Let's
Say
Port
Number
123
You
Want
To
Do
Something
Special
On
Port
Number
123
But
You
Don't
Want
Port
123
To
Be
Open
To
The
Whole
World
All
The
Time
Let's
Actually
Use
A
More
Real
Let's
Say
Let's
Say
You
Want
An
FTP
Server
Available
To
Only
Certain
People
You
Don't
Want
It
Open
Wide
Open
To
The
Internet
You
Don't
Want
Port
21
Available
To
Anybody
And
Everybody
Because
It
Could
Be
Uploaded
Where
It
Whatever
So
You
Want
To
Lock
That
Down
Only
To
Certain
People
That
Is
A
Realistic
Application
Of
Port
Knocking
If
I
Do
You
Agree
Yeah
Actually
I
Would
Go
One
Step
Further
And
Say
Don't
Use
FTP
Because
Everything
Is
Set
In
The
Clear
Including
The
Data
And
The
Passwords
But
Let's
Use
It
For
Example
That
People
Can
To
Port
21
For
FTP
So
You
Don't
Want
The
FTP
To
Be
Open
Available
To
Everyone
All
The
Time
You
Want
People
To
Know
The
Code
So
What
Port
Knocking
Does
Is
There's
A
Couple
Of
Components
Involved
There's
Something
On
The
Server
Side
Something
At
That
ISP
Or
At
The
Company
Where
They
Want
To
Specifically
Open
Up
Port
21
And
There's
A
Client
Port
On
Your
FTP
Back
Into
Something
Here
In
Arizona
What
Port
Knocking
Does
Is
By
Pinging
Specific
Ports
Numbers
And
Specific
Sequence
Over
A
Given
Period
Of
Time
It's
Like
Pushing
The
Buttons
On
The
Door
In
The
Right
Order
So
I
May
Have
To
Send
One
Packet
To
Port
12
And
Another
Packet
To
Port
437
And
Another
Packet
To
Port
10,000
Within
A
Three
Second
Period
And
Again
Think
About
It
Pushing
Those
Buttons
On
That
Door
Pad
Once
That
Is
Received
Once
That
Specific
Sequence
Is
Received
From
That
Same
IP
Address
The
Port
21
Is
Unlocked
Now
It's
Not
Magic
Of
Course
It's
Just
All
Computers
And
It's
All
Zeros
And
Ones
Oh
It's
Magic
Bad
Magic
Yeah
Black
Magic
So
On
The
Server
Side
There
Has
To
Be
Something
That's
Monitoring
The
Monitor
That
See
That
Specific
Sequence
Goes
On
Within
The
Given
Time
For
That
Specific
IP
Address
And
That
Server
Side
Software
For
Lack
Of
A
Better
Term
Write
The
Dynamic
Rule
To
The
Firewall
To
Open
Up
Port
21
To
That
Specific
IP
Address
And
It
Could
Even
Be
For
A
Given
Period
Of
Time
So
Again
Think
Of
It
Like
Pushing
The
Buttons
On
The
Door
You
Know
What
Those
Buttons
To
Push
And
Magically
Port
21
Opens
Up
Just
To
You
Can
Get
At
It
That
Is
Majorly
Cool
It's
Very
Interesting
And
So
Simple
It's
One
Of
Those
Obvious
Things
It's
Like
Duh
Why
Didn't
Someone
Think
About
That
Before
Exactly
It
Is
And
If
We
Can
Rehash
Our
Debate
That
We
Had
On
The
Phone
We
Were
Kind
Of
Thinking
Through
The
Details
Of
This
And
The
Possibility
Is
Wait
A
Minute
It
Seems
Almost
Too
Easy
Is
It
Possible
Or
Is
It
Realistic
Is
There
A
Danger
Of
Brute
Forcing
Your
Way
Into
Finding
Out
That
Knock
Combination
Right
Well
That's
A
Very
Good
Point
And
We
Had
Talked
About
This
Before
65,535
Factorial
And
I
Have
No
Clue
What
That
Number
Is
I
Just
Know
It's
A
Big
Number
And
Factorial
Value
Would
Be
How
Many
Knocks
It
Takes
You
Can
Set
It
Up
For
Two
Simple
Knocks
You
Hit
Port
18
And
19
And
It
Opens
Up
Port
21
Right
Or
It
Could
Also
Be
10
Different
Port
Knocks
To
Open
Up
21
And
You
Don't
Know
That
And
Not
Only
Is
It
Knocking
At
Those
Specific
Ports
Within
The
Proper
Order
Within
The
Proper
Period
Of
Time
Everything
Dealing
With
Security
Is
To
Raise
The
Bar
Make
It
So
Difficult
That
As
To
Be
Impractical
So
You
Know
Like
Same
Thing
With
Encryption
File
Encryption
Theoretically
Can
Be
Broken
If
You
Want
To
Spend
Enough
Time
And
Have
Enough
Horsepower
To
Throw
At
It
Right
Now
If
You
Saying
Okay
Well
Still
Packets
Can
Be
Send
Out
Very
Quick
You
Can
Try
All
These
Things
And
Try
These
Combinations
Firewalls
Already
Have
Something
Built
Into
Them
It
Called
Shunning
And
If
Something
Happens
If
There's
Too
Much
Of
A
Specific
Kind
Of
Traffic
Coming
From
One
Place
It
Can
Temporarily
Or
Permanently
If
You
Like
But
Most
People
Make
Just
Make
It
Temporary
Block
Access
From
That
So
Let's
Say
I
Am
I
Going
To
Do
Scanning
Of
The
DDP
Or
Stank
Dog
Dot
Com
Right
I
Go
And
I
I'm
Going
To
Do
What's
Called
Port
Walking
This
Is
The
Old
Style
Where
You
Ping
Port
One
Port
Two
Port
Three
Port
Four
See
What's
Open
Well
That's
Very
Lowbrow
Very
Unintelligent
Way
Of
Doing
It
Because
It's
Very
Obvious
Even
To
A
Human
Being
Looking
At
A
Package
Being
Sent
To
Different
Port
Numbers
All
From
Coming
From
This
One
Address
The
Firewall
Can
Take
And
Block
That
Out
Say
I
Just
Refuse
To
Accept
Anything
And
I
Won't
Respond
To
Anything
Based
On
From
That
IP
Address
For
A
Given
Period
Of
Time
Right
And
That's
The
Salvation
Of
Denial
Of
Service
Attack
Shunning
But
That's
A
Whole
Other
Topic
But
Again
What
This
Effectively
Does
Is
It
Makes
It
Extremely
Difficult
Because
Even
After
We
Got
Off
The
Phone
Talking
With
It
I
Kind
Of
Worked
It
Out
My
Head
And
Realized
That
It
Is
Pretty
Secure
Because
The
Fact
That
There
Are
Two
Unknowns
And
It's
Great
That
You
Mentioned
The
Cryptography
Aspect
Because
It
Takes
Principles
Of
Cryptography
And
Applies
Them
To
This
Because
It's
Very
Easy
To
Build
A
Key
But
It's
Difficult
To
Break
It
And
The
Same
Thing
Here
It's
Very
Easy
To
Build
A
Combination
And
That's
What
It
Is
Port
Knocking
And
You're
Building
A
Combination
And
Somebody
Has
To
Punch
In
That
Combination
To
Get
It
Well
It's
Very
Easy
To
Build
It
And
You
Can
Tell
It
To
The
People
Who
You
Want
To
Have
But
It's
Very
Difficult
To
Do
It
Backwards
Right
So
It's
Very
Fundamentally
Sound
And
I
Don't
Really
See
I
Mean
Again
We've
Only
Been
Thinking
About
This
For
A
Few
Days
I
Don't
Really
See
Any
Obvious
Glaring
Weaknesses
Or
Holes
Other
Than
Well
It's
Not
Really
A
Hole
But
First
Of
You
Would
Have
To
Have
This
Relies
On
Scripting
You
Would
Have
To
Write
A
Script
That
Listens
For
Those
Ports
To
The
Script
That
Obvious
That
Common
Sense
And
The
Hardware
Has
To
Support
Scripting
You
Know
Think
Similar
To
Like
Port
Forwarding
If
You
Come
In
On
One
Port
You
Can
Ray
Route
It
Send
To
A
Different
One
You
Know
That's
Another
Port
Protection
Thing
So
It
Has
To
Support
That
Type
Of
Scripting
But
I
Really
Would
Like
To
Do
Some
Proof
Of
Concept
On
This
I
Might
Be
Doing
Some
Research
On
This
And
Checking
It
Out
See
If
I
Can
Set
Something
Like
This
Up
I
Don't
Think
I
Have
I
Have
Some
Pretty
Simple
Cheap
Stuff
In
My
Lab
Here
In
The
Office
But
I
Might
Try
To
Get
My
Hands
On
Something
A
Little
Bit
Better
And
See
If
I
Can't
Work
Setting
This
Up
For
More
Information
I
Think
It
Was
This
Admin
Magazine
Where
It
First
Came
Up
But
There
Is
Port
Knocking
.org
Is
Probably
The
Premier
Resource
Site
For
That
So
Definitely
Check
It
Out
Read
Up
On
It
Very
Cool
Stuff
All
One
Word
Port
Knocking
.org
And
We
Will
Put
That
Up
In
The
Show
Notes
Of
Course
Now
That
Was
Our
Main
Topic
But
We
Do
Still
Have
I
Don't
Know
Somewhere
Around
Ten
Minutes
So
How
Do
Feel
About
Going
Back
To
That
Top
101
Whatever
It
Was
Called
Ways
To
Save
The
Internet
I
Think
It
Was
Called
I
Was
Trying
To
Knock
Some
Of
Those
Things
Out
101
Ways
To
Save
The
Internet
Are
You
Up
For
That
We
Left
Off
We
Finished
Number
51
Last
Time
You
Were
On
Right
Also
For
Everyone
Listening
This
Was
Based
On
An
Article
Wired
Magazine
January
2004
It
Probably
So
Go
Check
Those
Out
And
You
Can
Follow
Along
And
Play
Along
At
Home
Number
52
Is
Where
We
Are
Going
To
Start
Today
And
Actually
Let's
Try
To
Bust
Through
This
Starting
From
52
To
64
Here
These
Are
All
Microsoft
To
Do
List
These
Are
All
Things
Relating
To
Microsoft
As
Far
As
101
Ways
To
Save
The
Internet
And
It
Looks
Like
There's
More
For
Microsoft
To
Do
Than
All
Of
The
Other
Stuff
All
The
Others
Are
Miscellaneous
Here
And
There
Microsoft
Has
Their
Own
Dedicated
List
Of
Things
That
They
Need
To
Do
And
Number
52
Says
Hey
Steve
Of course
Steve
Jobs
They're
Refer
Excuse
me
Steve
Ballmer
Excuse
me
Steve
Ballmer
They're
Referring
To
Says
Someone's
Not
Living
Up
To
The
Company's
Tough
Talk
On
Fixing
Bugs
Developers
From
The
Famous
Speech
Of
Course
Should
Be
Accountable
Well
What do
You
Think
About
That
Is
That
A
Little
Harsh
Fire
Someone
Well
Yeah
I
Mean
First
Of
All
The
Developers
Most
Of
The
Main
Code
Monkeys
Are
Just
That
You
Know
They
Don't
Have
Much
Say
It
Basically
Comes
Down
From
The
Chief
Software
Architect
Bill
Gates
Himself
But
Inertia
Is
Such
A
Terrible
Thing
That
There's
So
Much
There's
Such
A
Large
Installed
Base
Of
Windows
And
Love
It
Or
Hate
It
You
Know
It's
There
It's
Going
To
Be
There
Oh
Little
Side
Note
I
To
That
They
They're
Code
Monkeys
They
Don't
Have
A
Lot
Of
Say
In
What's
Going
On
The
Inertia
Is
So
Bad
There's
So
Many
10
Million
Lines
Of
Code
In
Windows
XP
There's
So
Much
Behind
It
would just take, you know, not in this lifetime are we ever going to see that ever able to
be fixed.
I mean, they would basically have to come up with a new program and call it DOORS instead,
you know, and have it completely written from scratch with security.
You know, so fire someone, hey, okay, great.
You know, make someone the scapegoat, make them the sacrificial lamb, fine.
That's still not going to fix the problem.
No, I think it comes down to organization.
I don't think it's the code monkeys that are the problem.
I think it's the management.
And like you said, I don't know if it's as high as Bill or Steve, but it's somebody
in management whose job it is to tie all these things together.
And when you tie components together and integrate, which is their favorite word, you have to
integrate not only features, not only how it looks and feels, but you have to integrate
security.
That's part of the whole thing.
So I think that's a management, that's a project manager's job.
Yeah, but again, I think it's a higher level than that.
It goes back to, again, Bill as the chief software architect.
That's the title that he gave himself now.
The title given to him by Queen Elizabeth was Sir Bill Gates, but that's another story.
That's the other.
But again, because everything was so fast and loose back in the day when they were developing
Windows and DOS and everything.
And yes, of course, Microsoft did not develop DOS.
They bought it from someone else and added their own stuff onto it.
But anyway, all of that was not designed with security.
Let's face it, the internet was not designed for security.
TCP IP is notoriously bad.
We just got done talking about security and ports and everything else.
So the whole paradigm of thing needs to shift, and we need to do things from a secure standpoint.
And by firing a couple of developers, I'm sorry, that's not going to do it.
Well, in defense, it does say fire someone.
It doesn't say developers, but, well, actually, it does say developers, developers.
Are they going to fire the janitor?
But it says fire someone.
Lunch lady?
Come on.
All right.
Are they going to fire?
Who's it going to matter?
If it's not a code or if it's not someone typing away in the salt mine that's chained to
their cubicle.
Well, they probably will throw someone under the bus, but I think upper management needs
to accept responsibility.
Yeah, that's going to happen.
Well, I didn't say it was realistic.
I said should.
And unfortunately, we don't live in should-ville.
But number 53, give away a good spam filter.
Is it Microsoft's job to build and create and write a spam filter for us?
Well, you know, they started putting antivirus back in DOS 622 and stuff.
But I'm going to get back to the same thing.
It's going to sound like a broken record here, but email is broke.
Email is broken.
It needs to be fixed.
Again, it was designed back in the days when security didn't matter, and it was only these
people in universities that were sending stuff to each other.
So, yeah, should they do it?
Maybe.
Then again, every time Microsoft tries to do something like that, those little developing
companies come up and say, eh, eh, eh, it's not fair.
Microsoft's giving that away.
We're trying to make a living selling that, and they're giving it away.
It's not fair.
All right.
And frankly, I would debate, why is it Microsoft's place to do this?
Microsoft's not in charge and invented email.
Well, yes, they're, you know, they own all the desktop, majority of desktops in the world, and
sure, Outlook has problems and stuff.
Well, fix Outlook.
Outlook has a spam filter in it.
They provide one with Outlook.
Outlook, without getting into a debate on how good it is or how bad it is or anything like
that, they provide one with their mail software, but why should they have to provide a universal
spam filter?
I mean, why them?
Why not Netscape?
Why not, hell, why not Linus?
Linus Torvalds.
Why not, you know, why not Linus Torvalds?
Well, there are actually a lot of good spam filters.
There absolutely are.
Spam Assassin I use.
Yeah, or even, you know, some of the other things, the Bayesian filtering kind of algorithms,
but, and those are, those are also available for Windows, but, you know, the, the great unwashed
masses out there aren't going to be able to start going to SourceForge or FreshMeat and
download and install that stuff.
Right.
Well, no, I mean, I'm not sympathetic with them, but I do have to play the, the devil's
advocate here and say, I don't know that it's really their place to.
If I was there and somebody told me, I'd be like, yeah, whatever.
We already provide a spam filter.
But, anyway, number 54, and you just mentioned this, ship an antivirus wizard.
Why can't the paperclip guy tell us something important like, this message is infected with
so big.
Well, I'll, I'll save you the broken record thing because they didn't have it.
They didn't think this kind of stuff was going to happen with email.
They didn't predict it.
Their software has these vulnerabilities.
So, singling out, looking for a specific virus, no.
But, should Microsoft ship an antivirus wizard?
Well, I don't know.
First of all, Clippy, the paperclip, got fired.
They actually had a big thing one time with Gates.
I forget what they were launching.
Oh, it was probably Office XP.
I think so.
Someone come up, dressed up like the paperclip, and Bill handed him this big, huge pink slip.
Yeah.
He's fired, so.
And they actually had fun and made fun of that, too.
They realized that that was about the biggest screw-up since Microsoft Bob.
It was actually, Gilbert Gottfried did the voice of Clippy.
All right, 55.
Again, I had the same, same comment for this, number 55.
Block self-installing adware for good.
Well, you can't make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.
Someone's going to figure a way around something out of that all the time.
Well, what's the saying about every time you make something idiot-proof, the world makes bigger and better idiots?
Exactly.
Yeah.
And again, I don't know whose place that is to do that.
This is under the Microsoft to-do stuff, so I don't, it's a tough one.
Realistically, that's just way too broad.
56.
Enable automatic file encryption.
We've heard promises for years, but even Apple offers this already.
What's the holdup?
Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but you optionally with Windows 2000 and above can have your files encrypted automatically.
You just choose to do that as you set that up as one of the properties for that particular volume under NTFS.
Yeah, I was going to say, I think an NTFS, uh-oh, there's a timer.
Under NTFS, I do think that's true, but is that appropriate for a home user?
Is that realistically something a home user, you know, I have to admit I've never tried it,
but I would wonder if a home user was going to have any problems accessing their files and their data as easily under an encrypted file system or not.
Well, if the operating system is working, it's not going to be an issue.
Right.
You know, then again, there's a lot of boxes, I think, are still being set up even from the factory with FAT or FAT32 rather than NTFS
because, you know, you can boot a DOS disk and still get to your files on if it's FAT as opposed to NTFS, so.
Right, right.
And what I normally do is set up my primary drive, uh, on a Windows box anyway, is NTFS.
And then, uh, my extra data drive or anything like that I have in there is FAT32.
Oh, dude, you should go NTFS all the way because of the cluster size and all the economies of scale and everything else for it.
But I have, uh, limited, um, I need, without going into detail, I need to be able to access it from other boxes within the house,
and there's so many disparate different versions and seeds of Linux and stuff like that that I want to keep it as universal as possible.
Set up, set up, uh, have a central SMB server running Samba that you'll be able to get.
Yeah, and that's the answer I've heard, and I, yes, that's what I need to do eventually, but it's on the list.
Way at the bottom of the list.
Speaking of lists.
Uh-oh.
Where are we up to now?
Number 57?
57.
Filter fake error messages.
Those ads that pose as Windows error messages.
Your computer may be infected.
Download fix.
Should appear in front of your lawyers, not us.
Well, give me a break.
Well, again, I don't, I don't know.
This whole section, I have to admit, I don't like this.
They're not, they're, Microsoft has problems, a lot of them, but I'm not sure the way he's approaching this list so far is, I'm not sure that I agree with it.
Yeah, these are non-realistic.
Yeah, and I mean, it's, again, it's not Microsoft's place.
If somebody uses, you know, somebody designs a banner ad that looks like the Windows error box, how is that, be accountable, whoever made the message.
Someone did get in trouble, if I remember correctly.
I don't know if you, some company, some banner company, got in trouble for making errors that looked like Windows error messages at one point.
I mean, it looked like, I think it was a blue screen DOS error that popped up in a window or something like that.
Does that ring a bell?
Yeah, kind of.
You might have to research that and maybe post it somewhere, but someone did get in trouble for that.
Yeah, there was some other stuff too, like.
I want to say it was one of those utility programs that says speed up your memory and your system is not optimized or something.
I think it was one of those utility programs, but I'm not sure.
Could very well be.
If anybody knows, please email me, radiobinrev.com.
58, take the blame.
Well, that's a hole with no bottom right there.
Software licensing agreements that absolve you of, oh, deleting three years' worth of email are irresponsible.
Bugs are negligence, and negligence should cost you, not us.
I love that sentence.
Well, but there's two conflicting ideas there.
Okay.
Yeah, bugs are negligence, bugs are issues, and you just can't.
Let's put it this way, if any of the auto companies made cars that had as many bugs as Windows had,
they'd be out of business, we'd be incensed.
I mean, look at the Pintos and everything else, the Edsels, and one little thing like that,
and the car companies get no slack.
So that's one thing, and I definitely agree with that.
But software licensing agreements that absolve you of, oh, deleting three years' worth of email are irresponsible.
Wait a minute.
How are you going to indemnify against people's stupidity?
So a person deletes their entire file folder with three years' worth of email,
how is that the responsibility of the company?
People aren't taking responsibility for themselves these days or their kids or anything else.
Absolutely.
So you're looking for someone else to blame because you were an idiot and deleted all your three years' worth of email?
Come on.
Right, but there are also, at the same time, there are legitimate circumstances where Outlook will download the latest supposed security patch
that comes from Microsoft, and the next time you fire up Outlook, oops, your last three years of email are gone.
I mean, those things exist, too, and I think that is the type of situation.
Of course, logistically, how are you going to prove and define one versus the other, and where is that line?
I mean, it would be a mess to actually go through that and try to get a finger pointed at someone and keep it there.
Right, and there are so many variables, and after the fact, and trying to do forensics to figure out what actually happened.
Right.
Let's face it, end users aren't, let alone the whole responsibility issue that I got on a second ago.
If anyone out there works in the IT area as a help desk kind of thing or whatever, you go to look at someone's computer, what did you do?
Oh, I didn't do anything.
I didn't change anything.
It just acted like that.
Well, the logical absurdity that I take that to is that you go out to someone's desk in a company-setting business environment and say,
okay, what did you change?
I didn't change anything.
You know, meanwhile, they have an iMac sitting on their desk when your company standard is, you know, PCs.
Oh, I didn't change anything.
It was just like that when I got here today.
Yeah, right.
Yeah.
You know, people don't want to admit that they changed anything because they don't want to catch out.
Right, right.
Let's whip through these last few here.
59, make anonymous net use easier.
I think that's a great statement.
That's a great idea.
Again, why is it in the Microsoft section?
I mean, yeah, it'd be nice if they added that feature, sure.
Yeah, but I think maybe some of that, as I'm thinking about it now, some of that may be just because, again,
for individual users, yeah, there are anonymizer-type products out there.
There's anonymous proxies and everything else.
But generally, people aren't going to be able to do that.
You know, the quote-unquote normal regular computer user isn't going to be able to do that.
So if it's included with the operating system, yeah, then that's a possibility.
If it's not, most of the people out there aren't going to be able to do it.
Right.
And, well, on the same logic to contradict myself and play devil's advocate to the devil's advocate,
if they can bundle Microsoft Network on the desktop, they certainly can bundle anonymous net browsing in there as well.
Right.
And maybe that's another profit center for Microsoft.
Of course, are you going to trust Microsoft to be your anonymizing company?
Yeah, right.
Right, exactly.
For another $9.95 in months, you can search the net anonymously.
By the way, you know, you have to be a subscriber to the Microsoft Network.
And, by the way, we'll see every bit of data that's going through your hard drive.
Please enter your social security number and blood type in the following field,
and we'll get you started right away.
Exactly.
It's like it's a drug dealer.
First three months free.
Well, that's why there's only two things that have users, drugs and computers.
There you go.
Number 60, make networked home PCs back each other up.
Yeah.
Logistically, that involves setting up, configuring software to see and recognize each other.
What do you do when parts of the network go down, trouble communicating, consistent throughput.
There's a ton of logistic nightmares in that.
Well, yeah.
I mean, make it to, you may as well throw one in there, make your computer not boot unless you can prove you have a backup of your data.
It's like those cars with the built-in breathalyzers, you know, you have to blow in the tube to see if you're drunk or not.
Hmm.
Number 61, create.
Okay, now this is a valid one, I think.
Create a security advisory board.
Appoint some outsiders.
It says, parentheses, Dan Gear.
I have to admit I don't know that name.
To decide which security upgrades should be auto-pushed to consumers' PCs, then make it happen.
Well, I like the idea of a security advisory board.
I still don't want them to auto-push anything to me.
Right.
I still want the bottom line say-so of what I'm going to put on my system.
No, and maybe more of an incorporate environment, you know, that's appropriate, but for the home users.
And let's face it, that's where a lot of these, you know, zombie machines are out there as the home user.
You know, if you push that out to them, that's at least better than having nothing.
Although, if we roll the tape back just a second and saying about you just get the latest security fix for Outlook,
and it leads to three years' worth of email.
So, it's kind of a catch-22.
Yep.
Number 62, add a low-bandwidth mode to Internet Explorer.
Well...
Now, technically, there is an option in Internet Explorer to turn off images.
Right.
You can tell it not to download images and stuff like that, so...
And disable any plug-ins or anything like that.
So, that's pretty low-bandwidth.
Right.
If they're saying a text-only version, I don't know that they should have to, but...
That's beside the point.
What, I'm sorry?
It's called Lynx.
Yeah, well...
We won't go there.
But, actually, logistically, that shouldn't be too difficult to put in IE.
Just have a different mode.
Just an option that says full functional mode or text-only mode where it will only pull down.
There you go, Stink.
There's what you need to do.
You need to write a little add-in toolbar that will shut off, you know,
because people won't know where to dig for it.
So, you add a little toolbar in that, you know, turns on or turns off ActiveX content
and turns on and turns off the pictures.
Yeah, I'll put that on the list.
Oh, right.
And, actually, you know, I really don't think that would be that difficult, but...
Not to belittle it, but it's really not as difficult as some other things might be.
Number 63.
Offer more language translations.
We want to read those Iranian blogs.
Maybe I'm being very, very, I don't know what the proper word is here,
but I'm not particularly interested in reading a lot of stuff in other languages.
Well, actually, I am.
I actually...
Well, not frequently, but there are occasions where there's, like, German hacking zines out there or...
Well, there's a site for it.
It's called Babelfish.
Well, but I don't...
It doesn't have all of the translations.
It only has a select few translations, and I have come across some that it won't translate.
There are some obvious ones, like Japanese, for example.
It's very, very, very difficult to translate.
Yeah, but, you know, software is not to the point that you're going to get any non...
Any pictographic kind of language, whether, you know, whether it's any of the Asian languages...
Arabic.
Arabic, Hebrew, even Cyrillic for Russian.
Right.
So that, you know, we just don't have the technology available to do that yet.
Well, I would like to see that progress in the future.
I think that...
I think it will eventually, but, yeah, not yet.
Yeah, and we'll tell you what, after you get the other program written,
and start working on that one, too.
All right, that's on...
Okay, that one's after the other one.
Let me write that down.
Okay.
This is the part where I pretend I'm actually writing this down?
Exactly.
Okay, I'm done pretending to write that down.
Last one for the day.
We're way over, actually.
So, number 64, simplify for security.
Fewer features means fewer bugs.
Excuse me.
I just sneezed on the air.
Is that bad, radio?
Oh, definitely, yeah.
Oh, man.
Fewer features means fewer bugs.
So, I don't like that at all.
Well, the only thing is, like, again, since we're talking specifically about Microsoft here,
Microsoft's only real competition is Microsoft, you know,
and no, you know, all Linux and Mac fans don't start sending me hate mail for that.
We're talking specifically about Microsoft.
The only competition is Microsoft.
So, if you have Office 97 or Office 2000 or Office XP, what's your motive to upgrade to the next version?
Unless you have one of those kind of restrictive licenses that Microsoft's holding a gun up to your head,
there really is no reason.
So, the only way Microsoft can compete with the older Microsoft is having new features.
Now, that having been said, there's, you know, something wrong about that because, you know,
you can't, they can't, every company can't keep growing 20% from quarter to quarter.
Keep, you know, I don't need 47 different colored squiggle underlined.
Like, it was kind of cool, yeah, when I typed something wrong in Word and put the little red squiggly underline
to let me know I typed it wrong.
Okay, that's pretty cool.
That's really useful.
But now, if I have improper grammar, there's a green squiggly underline.
Right.
And now, if I say a bad word, is there going to be an orange squiggly underline?
If I do something else, is there going to be a purple squiggly underline?
I mean, how many more features do I need?
Don't forget about smart tags.
Well, there you go.
So, you know, yeah, you know, stop trying to throw more bells and whistles at it
and just work at improving and just say, hey, you know what?
But maybe it's actually going to be the fact that everyone out there is not going to buy
the latest and greatest, you know, gwiz.com version 4.750 just because there's a new one out
and just because my stockholders need to make more money.
Well, that's not exactly the same issue.
You kind of branched off there.
Releasing bad buggy software is one thing.
But I don't think that you should take away features or remove features or avoid adding
and giving people new features because of the potential.
I mean, I don't think a user should have to suffer or do without something.
You know, I don't think the user should have to suffer.
I think they should just simply do it and do it right, period.
If you're going to do the features, do them right, secure and safely.
And don't just take them away or not create them because, oh, it might be, you know,
it's not, you know, if it's not ready, don't release it.
But don't stop developing them.
Don't stop making features.
I don't like, I don't, I don't think that's right.
But anyway, we are done for this episode.
We left off on, what was it, 60, we'll start with 65 next time.
We are out of the Microsoft section, which, again, I don't see a lot of those really were Microsoft only.
And for all the listeners out there, too, let us know, you know, are you enjoying going through this?
You know, we're having some fun talking about that, but let us know what you want to hear.
If you want to hear this, keep going.
Let us know.
If you say shut up and talk about something else, let us know that, too.
Right.
And what I'm really trying to do is still stick with a good topic.
Like, I think port knocking is very interesting, and I'm going to be reading up on it.
So I like to slip this in with other topics.
I don't want to do an only show with only this.
So I kind of mix a few in at the end of each one.
But, yeah, if you're getting tired of hearing these or whatever.
The other thing is, I haven't read this completely yet.
I skimmed it when I first got it and thought it was interesting.
But this is spontaneous that I'm reading these as we go along and kind of making decisions and thinking for myself.
So that's another reason I thought it would be interesting.
But, yes, radio at binrev.com is where you can e-mail us at and let us know.
And, of course, it is time to do shout-outs, and mine are pretty simple this time.
I shout-out everybody at my 2600 meeting, particularly 0DB, who actually we were talking about heading up to New York together.
So we're going to see how that works up for the fifth hope.
So we may be able to work that out.
So what do you got?
Who do you want to shout-out this time?
Well, again, I'll echo your sentiments.
Shouts to the people here at the PHX 2600 stuff.
And shouts to my boy Bill.
My boy Bill Gates.
You know, I'd be pimping you, man.
I'd be wearing your shirt.
You know, I don't think you're going to get a lot of support e-mails on that one.
I've got to tell you something that's really funny, though.
So the 2600 magazine came out.
You know, we're in Borders.
I got there a little early.
I'm wearing this Microsoft T-shirt.
And I go by the 2600 magazine, and there's this young guy behind the counter.
And he's looking at the 2600 magazine, and he's looking at my Microsoft shirt.
And he's looking at the 2600 magazine saying, something's not right here.
And I said, yeah, it's just really to mess with people's minds.
So shouts as well to Seth at Borders at 24th and Camelback.
All right.
And, you know what, and since you brought it up, Decoder and Lucky225 both had articles in there this time.
So shout-outs to them.
Can't wait to read them if I ever get my issue.
Yeah, well.
Yeah, I won't even go there.
Got to go look at it in the bookstore because I haven't gotten mine mailed to me yet.
But that's all for me.
Closing music this time is from Shun, a group we've had on before.
This is a different track.
It's called Call Out the Lions.
And that's going to wrap it up.
Episode 32 is in the books.
Rax, I think we will have to continue this next week.
Same hack time.
Same hack channel.
Don't sit in the corner waiting for your chance.
Make your own music start your own dance.
Sometimes I'm a big, big liar.
Sometimes I'm just a big.
I don't know, no, I don't know.
But baby, baby, baby, I want to get bigger.
Run now.
Oh, baby, I like the king.
Oh, baby, I like the dance.
Oh, baby, I like the smile.
Oh, baby, I'm the biggest award.
Another ginger, ginger, on the dance floor.
Another ginger, ginger, ginger, ginger, ginger, ginger, ginger, ginger.
That's my opportunity.
The legend goes that's the fuck I got.
Oh, baby.
Happy that gracias.
Through our hands.
Oh, baby.
If you dare sieht.
시 scares.
That's why I gotta call out the police
I don't worry about what I ain't got
God, why you are?
Come with me, baby
God, why you are?
Come with me, baby
God, why you are?
Come with me, baby
I ripped it off before you ripped it off
So don't rip me off or I'll rip you off
Do I care now about the police?
That's why I gotta call out the police
I don't worry about what I ain't got
God, why you are?
Come with me, baby
God, why you are?
Come with me, baby
From my what you are
Come with me, baby
From my what you are
Come with me, baby
Are we there yet?
Is this it?
I'm so sick of trying
Call off the Lions
I'll be fine, I'll be fine, I'll be fine
Don't sit in the corner waiting for your chance
Make your own music, start your own dance